Christopher Lane (c. 1991-2013) was an Australian studying in America on a baseball scholarship. On August 16th 2013 he was shot dead in Duncan, Oklahoma by three teenagers because they were “bored”.
The State Department said they were “deeply saddened” and extended their condolences to Lane’s family and loved ones.
The suspects (from left to right in the picture):
- James Francis Edwards Jr., age 15, black
- Chancey Allen Luna, age 16, black
- Michael Dewayne Jones, age 17, white
The crime:
Most of what we know so far comes from witnesses and the police confession of Jones.
Jones:
We were bored and decided to kill somebody.
They saw Lane, who was out for a run, and followed him in their car. Jones is driving, Edwards is sitting next to him, Luna is in the back seat. Luna pulls out his gun and – pop! – shoots Lane in the back. They speed away.
Lane staggers, falls to his knees and then pitches forward, falling on his face. Witnesses come to his aid. He is gasping for breath, turning blue. They give him CPR but a minute later he is dead. They close his eyes. The police arrive.
Later the police receive a call that there are three youths parked in a car by a church. They have guns and are threatening to kill someone. It is the same car seen at the Lane shooting. The police arrest them. They find a gun in the car, but it is not the murder weapon.
Some background: Edwards, in the months before the shooting, was on the Internet showing off guns, talking about hurting people. He has been accused of making a death threat. He has had run-ins with the police before.
Charges:
- Luna and Edwards are charged with first-degree murder and will be tried as adults. If found guilty, they face life in prison.
- Jones is charged as an accessory to murder after the fact and will be tried as a “youthful offender” in adult court. He could get only two years.
Was it racial?
Lane was white – was the killing racially motivated?
Edwards back in April tweeted:
90% of white ppl are nasty. #HATE THEM
A friend doubts it was racial: Edwards’s own girlfriend is white, Luna’s mother is white. Jones himself is white. The police and the district attorney also doubt it.
Selective outrage?
Glenn Beck and others ask where is Al Sharpton on this one? How come the press is not going nuts over this like they did with Trayvon Martin?
But if this were like the Trayvon Martin case, then:
- The police would wait a month or so before arresting the suspects and putting them in jail.
- Lane would be painted as a thug, as someone who deserved to die.
- A nearly-all black jury would let the suspects go free.
- The case would be played down with talk about white-on-white crime.
If anything, the Lane case shows how even white foreigners have stronger civil rights in America than do black citizens.
Thanks to Biff and R B White for suggesting this post.
See also:
- selective outrage
- The black-on-black crime argument
- Trayvon Martin
- The police
- George Stinney – the danger of trying minors as adults based on police confessions. The Central Park Five is another frightening example.
- Troy Davis – a good example of how the police can get witnesses to go along with its version of events.
This is why I always say what is wrong with America. I wonder if this country can even discern between right and wrong anymore. They were bored….Get a darn job or hobby or something.
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Now on to the racial aspect of this. They are constantly trying to push the issues onto the black community and not addressing a problem that is country wide that we are seeing more and more white youth doing dumb sh*t. The reaction is “look at these blacks at it again” but wait there is a twist…the white kid…so what excuse will they come up for him to avoid dealing with this problem in the countries youth?
Probably along the lines of …unstable home, mentally ill, etc.
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so what excuse will they come up for him to avoid dealing with this problem in the countries youth?
My guess is that they will talk about how he was coerced/influenced/strongarmed in to doing this as he was ‘outnumbered’.
This crime, what a bl00dy disgusting thing to happen and then blame it on – boredem. FFS
I have been saying for a long time now that they should bring National Service back – it certainly wouldnt do many of the disaffected youth harm. It can teach them a trade, discipline, and other things that would help in life. For those from troubled backgrounds, it might actually help give a bit of direction in life too.
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Let me be the first to say, i feel very bad for this young man and his family, for his life to be snuffed out in such a senseless manner is so reprehensible.
That being said, does anyone notice, the only white male that is the OLDEST, 17 years old is being charged as a “youthful offender” and the youngest 2 black males 15,16 are being charged as, “adults”?
I’m surprised abagond didn’t point that out in this post as it was so blatantly obvious.
Another case of white privilege, strikes yet again.
It goes to show that black children will never be seen as innocent children, whither it be a black boys, charged in a crime or a black young female, raped or molested by a white person as in the case of that young white blonde 18 year woman, charged with having sex with a 14 year old black child.
I am in no way, sticking up for what these 3 children has done, they should be punished for their crimes but i believe the 17 year old white boy, should be tried as an adult and receive the same time, the younger 15,16 year old black boys will most likely receive.
If things stay the way they are, the white boy with only receive 2 years while the other 2 black boys will receive, life in prison!
I am not surprised that a white person, part of a crime with 2 other black people, will still receive unequal justice, via white privilege, courtesy of white supremacy.
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Oh, i almost forgot to add this…
I notice in the media, that they are ONLY showing the 2 black boys pictures on Facebook and YouTube.
I only see the white boy in the mug shots sometimes, the white boy isn’t even featured in most of the media stories, only his name but not his face like the other two black boys!
Does anyone else on this blog, notice the undertone to downplay the white child’s role in this crime?
He’s being charged as a youthful offender (17 YEARS OLD), despite being the OLDEST out of the 3!!! The 2 younger black males are being charged as adults, ( 14,15 )
Its almost like the 17 year old white boy was a innocent by stander and he had nothing to do with the crime, just was at the wrong black at the wrong time!
He was a willing participant but isn’t treated as such, he is getting the white privilege treatment!
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I am glad that these 3 were caught and arrested immediately, so that the poor family in Australia can get immediate justice … when is this ridiculous crap going to stop… this country is certainly going down the drain in a hand-basket with ignorant people leading the way
White America needs to stop the BS and grow up…not sure how anyone can find similarities between this heinous crime and the callous disregard that the Sanford PD showed towards Trayvon’s death.
These 3 a-holes were caught and arrested Immediately… there is NO Comparison to the Trayvon murder… if they were similar, then the Australian family would have to come to USA and form a protest to get their child’s killer(s) arrested….but Thank God for them, the Oklahoma police take their jobs seriously, unlike Sanford police.
and yes, Sondis, I see the hypocrisy — at 17 Trayvon is portrayed as a “man” as far as racist white people are concerned but now this 17 year old is just a “youthful” offender as far as OK law enforcement is concerned
and I also noticed that the media was reluctant to show the white boys face — that would interrupt the new trend, which is to highlight as many black teenage crimes as possible, to appease white America … yep, not surprised
— all 3 of them need to be tried as “adults” — if the other kid (darkest and youngest) was just a passenger (not the driver or the trigger-puller), then why is he being tried as an “adult” if he too, is just an accessory to the crime? same sh’t, different day
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I don’t think race has anything to do with murder of Christopher Lane, he was just at the wrong place at wrong time, it just so happens that two of the three guys are black, but one of them is WHITE, and the mainstream media and white America is ignoring that.
White race baiters are trying to make this out into a racial issue.
http://heartiste.wordpress.com/2013/08/21/the-randomness-of-polar-bear-hunting/
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I also think James Francis Edwards Jr was really stupid for tweeting racial/hateful stuff, those tweets are going to be used against him.
He might be only 15 but he should have known better.
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Yep, this crime wasn’t a hate crime, being one of the criminals is a white boy, duh!
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The racial makeup of the perpetrators is exactly 50% Black and 50% White, since Luna is Mixed.
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@Linda
“all 3 of them need to be tried as “adults” — if the other kid (darkest and youngest) was just a passenger (not the driver or the trigger-puller), then why is he being tried as an “adult” if he too, is just an accessory to the crime? same sh’t, different day”
Thank goodness Lane’s family didn’t have to go through hoops to get justice and the 3 were caught and arrested immediately.
But @Linda and sondis, I noticed this too, why is both the black boy (notice he as identified ‘black’ and NOT biracial?) who shot and the black boy who was in the passenger seat being charged as adults?
And yet the white boy who was driving is a youthful offender and is facing two years?
Why is the white boy who was driving less guilty than the black boy in the passenger seat?
And the black boy in the passenger seat is the one who made the tweet about white people being nasty, but he was not the one who shot Lane. It was the black boy who is really biracial (Luna).
So yeah, I don’t see much of a hate crime to this either, just senseless stupidity, which is hardly better. But I think that they all should be tried as adults. I agree with sondis that they were all willing participants.
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Linda said:
xPraetorius:
Best,
— x
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I don’t know if I agree that foreign Whites have more Civil Rights than Black Americans but, they definitely have a higher status as far as America is concerned.
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hey XPraetorius,
kindly f’ck off and don’t address my comments… your thoughts are of no interest to me.
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chancey’s mother is white so technically he biracial.
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“Linda
hey XPraetorius,
kindly f’ck off and don’t address my comments… your thoughts are of no interest to me.”
He got Owned… *_*
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The fact that “Edwards back in April tweeted: 90% of white ppl are nasty. #HATE THEM”, was just him voicing an opinion, and a well justified one. He’s 15 years old and starting to get a clear idea of how the world works. But that is irrelevant to what Luna did in pulling the trigger.
Why is Edwards charged with first-degree murder and will be tried as an adult, when he was just in the car? That being the case, Jones should also be charged with first-degree murder and tried as an adult!
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sondis
Yes I notice they mostly show the black guys pics. especially the dark skinned one. Now I know they will use this to try to paint black males in a bad light. It’s weird that they get upset when al Sharpton and them don’t speak on this, really? at first they say I can’t stand al and them, but no get ur words right u just can’t stand al and them when they are not doing sheit for u.
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It’s sad and scary that this kind of crap can happen. I’m reserving judgment and watching how this plays out.
Also, why does Jones face lighter sentencing?
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I think if they gonna charge two as adults try them all doggone. The white guy was the driver and older, but I know they’ll say oh he was forced they put a gun to his head and said drive. if anything charge the gunman as an adult and give the passengers the same amount. Its something how they keep showing what the black male tweeted and by looking at it you’d think he was the gunman.
Christopher Lane did not deserve this, and I think this will make the world see how messed up the gun violence and the wild wild west thinking that is prevalent here.
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@ xPraetorius:
How does one Black kid, one Mixed kid and one White kid = 2 black kinds and one White? Are you a proponent of the 1 drop rule (especially when it’s not being applied to Barak Obama)?
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It would be wasteful to charge the three as adult. The oldest sure is going to hit 18 in less than a year, so his unique lifeline is on countdown and probably dependent on a complete cooperation with prosecution.
What a mindcrushing pressure !
I’m sure not even a sane adult would be able to withstand, specially when its two younger partner in crime are contemplating life without parole
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Maybe the white kid is getting a lesser charged because he confessed.
However, I don’t think the 15 year old should be facing life. He didnt pull the trigger and he’s 15. I’m typically against charging children as adults, but I definitely understand the desire.
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Looking at him Jones looks mixed to me.
That aside; doesn’t matter if someone is friends with someone of a different race, has a differently raced significant other and has people of differing race in their family inregards to being racist or not.
We’ve gone over that more than once on this blog alone, someone can still have all those things, a black best friend etc…..and be pretty racist.
its not too amazing, he talked about how he hated white people and ultimately he went out and participated in the murder of one. Not hard to see how that links up.
And as to the media presentation and legal departments charging of crimes, pretty clearly racism is involved there.
Differences between this and the Martin Case; witness’s that support the victim and the accused being caught not too much later at a church with guns threatening to kill more people…..doesn’t really take a lot to see how and why it went down differently there.
I doubt the accused will try and have Lane portrayed as a thug especially factoring they shot him in the back.
Seriously; in general this is probably one of the “worst” cases to try and draw a parallel between treatment of races as compared to the Martin case; they are just so dissimiliar in so many ways.
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Comparing this to the Zimmerman-Trayvon incident is a false analogy. In one case, the shooter had injuries and a witness who saw him being attacked. In the other, the shooter(s) were driving by in a car and shot the victim in the back. That along with their admission leaves little doubt it was murder.
The only question is motive. Jones said they were “bored”. But it may have been more than that for the other two. James Edwards sent a number of racist tweets including one claiming to have attacked “5 woods since Zimmerman”. Plus, Chauncey Luna had a “black power” banner across the top of his Facebook page.The circumstances and admission leave no doubt as to guilt. I’ll reserve judgement on motives.
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Sick, sad, shameful. SMH.
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I am sure Glen Beck and Rush Limbaugh, Bill O’rilley are foaming at the mouth and twisting the facts and trying to make this a racial issue.
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@ Sondis
“That being said, does anyone notice, the only white male that is the OLDEST, 17 years old is being charged as a “youthful offender” and the youngest 2 black males 15,16 are being charged as, “adults”?”—Darn my perception has been off lately. I did not notice that at all.
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I really think it comes down to Jones snitched ( I am guessing). They gave him a deal for telling, but in these cases you have to wonder if he is truly telling the truth in regards to how much he was actually involved.
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Riverside Rob’s comment deleted for use of racial slur.
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@sharina i’ve never had a co-defendant before, but watching about a million hours of law and order has revealed that the first one to cut a deal is the one that wins out, it seems to be the way to get treated as a witness/reduced charges.
source: nbcnews
“Edwards and Luna were charged Tuesday with first-degree murder in the shooting death of a college baseball player out for a jog in Oklahoma. Jones was charged with being an accessory to murder after the fact and with firing a weapon. ”
1st degree is special circumstances, ie ‘laying in wait’ or premeditated, which is indicated by the report that the target was identified and stalked.
most likely Jones is a ‘cooperative witness’, ie snitch.
Jones must have helped to dump the gun, and/or drove from the scene, to have been charged with accessory after the fact, and firing a weapon? that’s wierd. idk…
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Linda said:
hey XPraetorius,
kindly f’ck off and don’t address my comments… your thoughts are of no interest to me.
xPraetorius:
Plainly. I suspect that any comments that differ with you are of no interest to you.
Best,
— x
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@ Sondis
A big thing that the press accounts I read leave out is why Jones is getting a lesser charge. Since I do not know, I left it out but tried to make it as clear as possible that Jones was being favoured.
I HOPE it is because he cut a deal with the police in exchange for a confession.
I FEAR it is because the police or the prosecutor did not think this is something Jones should throw his life away on, some dumb sh*t he did at 17, and cut him some slack – while the two black suspects were seen as pretty much doomed to a life of crime. Jones could be “saved”, the other two not.
Unfortunately, based on what I know so far, EITHER or even BOTH could be true!
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Edwards seems to be bad news, but even so no one should get life just for sitting in a car at age 15 when a murder went down.
Luna, if he truly did pull the trigger, should only get 20 years, given that he was a minor, or life with parole or something. Had he done it as an adult, then yes, life.
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mstoogood4yall said:
xPraetorius:
Has anyone here, really seen a single picture with only the two black kids in it? Really?!? In any serious media? I’ve seen thousands of pictures of “the suspects,” and all of them — without exception — have included all three kids. I’m calling POM (Pile-Of-Manure) on this statement by mstoogood4yall.
Best,
— x
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mary burrell said:
xPraetorius:
By way of correction for those who may have spoken prematurely, the above-mentioned luminaries have, of course, said very little about the case.
Best,
— x
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“xPraetorius:
Plainly. I suspect that any comments that differ with you are of no interest to you.”
Linda says,
What part of “F’ck off” and “don’t address my comments” are you not understanding….not interested in YOU and YOUR thoughts….please don’t address me.
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Most of what we know is based on JONES’S confession. He has every reason to lie through his teeth to save his own neck.
There is also a possibility that the police forced a confession out of him, particularly since he is a minor – something the police did in the case of George Stinney and the Central Park Five.
However, the motive for the murder – they were “bored” – is so completely nuts that it does not sound like something the police would make up. Truth is stranger than fiction.
Was boredom the true motive? Maybe not. It is a pretty rare motive and Jones might not have known what else to say or wanted to seem particularly bad-ass. Also, if Luna was the one who shot Lane, Jones might not have known what the true motive was. There could be some history between Luna and Lane that we do not know right now. Lane seemed to have been known in that neighbourhood (it was where his girlfriend of four years lived) and Luna seemed to have been staying there.
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Val said:
xPraetorius:
Wow! Do any of you ever look at anyone as anything but a member of some race or category or classification or group? How about looking at someone as a freakin’ person?!?
@Abagond: you really misdirected your “Hitler” post! You really needed to look a lot closer to home if you’re looking for justifications or downplaying or minimizing of excuses for sheer evil.
Best,
— x
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Linda said:
xPraetorius
I love relationships in which the two participants are in complete harmony! It happens so infrequently!
Oh, Linda, if you post a really stupid post as you did before, am I forbidden to address it? That seems kind of unfair.
Best,
— x
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JGreyden said
xPraetorius:
Pretty sure that none of these three kids qualifies as “sane” by any stretch of the imagination.
Best,
— x
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Abagond,
I’ve told that a’shole XPraetorius twice now to not address me…
what are your blog rules concerning this issue.
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@ xPraetorius
What a jerkwad you are. When someone says not to address them, you do not address them. Any future comments from you to her (and vice versa) will be deleted on sight.
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I use to say it to all my kids but it stands to say it more. Watch out what you put down in writing especially for the net. Although, I don’t think you should put too much weight in what teenagers write. There is a bunch of stuff that if most people look back to what they wrote as a teen especially early teen they would be shocked and embarrassed.
You driving a car with a friend who has a gun you should be in big trouble. You went in to confess and maybe a plea bargain that is one way to try to relieve a sentence.
Americans and gun culture just don’t mix well. We may have less crime then 10 or 15 years ago but we have extravagant taste and when we do something it is in that spirit. Extravagant stupidity!
We were bored; I almost wish those nuns with their rulers would comeback. Still -I am no fan of corporal punishment, I do think that if that is an answer to why you killed someone. Why you took someone’s life then yes you do need some jail time to relieve you of boredom.
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Abagond:
Thanks for responding, I figured there was a reason why you didn’t comment on that particular bit of information.
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Mary B.
I am sure Glen Beck and Rush Limbaugh, Bill O’rilley are foaming at the mouth and twisting the facts and trying to make this a racial issue.
Actually, O’Reilly spent 10 minutes on his show the other day claiming it wasn’t a hate crime. I didn’t personally see it because I don’t watch TV but I heard about it.
”
Abagond
Edwards seems to be bad news, but even so no one should get life just for sitting in a car at age 15 when a murder went down.
Luna, if he truly did pull the trigger, should only get 20 years, given that he was a minor, or life with parole or something. Had he done it as an adult, then yes, life.
If Luna pulled the trigger he should get a rope. As far as I’m concerned there needs to be a very good reason if the other two don’t get 20 years. I’m very interested in why Jones wasn’t charged with murder. Not saying he should. I want to know why he wasn’t.
”
Val
I don’t know if I agree that foreign Whites have more Civil Rights than Black Americans but, they definitely have a higher status as far as America is concerned.
The lesson is that foreigners victimized in America get more publicity if their governments make an issue of it. Before the protest the MSM wasn’t very interested.
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I know the right wing media immediately said that Lane was killed by three young black men, which turned out to be false.
Then, they news media – in general – largely focused on the two black suspects, even showing more of their mugshots as opposed to the white teen. (I thought one of them was Hispanic or Latino by the last name Luna.)
Crooks and Liars published an article that stated that the white teen said he was the one responsible for the shooting before he was told not to address anything in court yet.
Australia says it is outraged and plans to boycott America due to its gun violence. While American media goes into overdrive covering the death of a white Australian by a trio of thugs, two of them are black.
The argument that this is Trayvon Martin in reversed is used by conservative commentators.
Then, they focused on the darker-skinned suspect’s past and dug up quite a bit of dirt, hinting that he has gang ties, which would make the case against young black males as a whole stronger.
Next, we hear about another black-on-white murder where two black male teens beat to death and robbed an elderly World War II veteran. The story spreads as fast as the Chris Lane murder. Right-wing pundits make these and other cases proof positive that there’s racism against whites by blacks.
More systematic and interpersonal racism against blacks will come. People will use these killing to argue in support of stop-and-frisk.
I’m sorry Abagond, this whole ordeal, and the news media in general, has gotten me seriously down and depressed. I feel that shame I wrote about a couple of years ago, the shame that of knowing that young black males are the suspects. Even though I shouldn’t have to feel a shame as it is a byproduct of white supremacy, I can’t help but feel it and it is intense. We all know society should view these punks as individuals, but we all know that in the end, they view them as representatives of the entire group. It makes me sad for all brothas and sistas.
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I see the depressing truth that if a white foreigner is killed, there is an international outrage. A black person from anywhere is killed and there is no outrage or remorse from the world.
I’m not ashamed to tell you how miserable this whole thing makes me feel.
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Brothawolf,
“I see the depressing truth that if a white foreigner is killed, there is an international outrage. A black person from anywhere is killed and there is no outrage or remorse from the world.”
Really? It’s an international incident. The man was Austrailan. There was international outrage at the Trayvon Martin case and the black guy they put to death for killing that cop.
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Brothawolf,
“Even though I shouldn’t have to feel a shame as it is a byproduct of white supremacy, I can’t help but feel it and it is intense.”
You can help but feel it. You should analyze your racist beliefs that lead to those feelings.
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I hear ya, brothawolf, i feel depressed in some sort of way, too.
We as black people, always have had the burden of being subjected to adverse treatment by white people for the crimes that some black criminals, commit.
There is no escaping this as we are all judged as a group, via racial stereotypes, despite being a black person with no criminal record, we will still have that burden of suspicion, placed upon us as a race of people.
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@xPraetorius
“Do any of you ever look at anyone as anything but a member of some race or category or classification or group? How about looking at someone as a freakin’ person?!?”
Okay, but, you go first.
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xPraetorius
“Do any of you ever look at anyone as anything but a member of some race or category or classification or group? How about looking at someone as a freakin’ person?!?”
Gee, why haven’t black people thought of that? Oh, i know, it’s because white people do the very thing, that you ask black people to not do?
The big difference is, when white people do it, it causes real problems in the lives of black people and other people of color.
Just to name a few:
Death,poverty,mental illness,criminal activity,drug and alcohol abuse,violence against one another,sexual abuse,depression,unemployment. I can go on and on..
I never heard of a white person, suffering any of the above as a result of a black person, accusing them of being a racist.
When black people do it, NOTHING happens, other than white people getting the precious, delicate feelings hurt.
That is because black people have no power to apply their prejudice, that turns into racism, then turns into institutional racism, then that turns into white supremacy.
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@ Sondis
I thought you went into hiding. Did not see you here or on TP.
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@ Brothawolf
I can not tell you how to feel or guide you in the direction to not feel that way, but I see this as a wake up call. This should be the moment when America realizes it has major issues. That something needs to be done when a persons response to killing another is “we were bored.”
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Sharina:
I’m like Luther vandross, i creep… ^_^
I’m shakin n mov’n all the time, so i don’t be on here all day, everyday like most on here.
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@ sondis
:)~
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I hear ya brothawolf, I know they will use this case and others to really go after black males. we will see more joans thinking the blacks should be stopped and searched, without reason if they’re around their neighborhood. black males will be looked at with more suspicion.
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@agabond,
I told that would happen…..
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Val said:
xPraetorius:
Not sure why someone has to “go first” in terms of doing the right thing, but ok. Here goes: I’ve always looked at people of all colors as just people. So, you’re up, Val.
Best,
— x
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abagond, what slur have I used to have my post deleted? My post was thoughtful and direct, with no acrimony. Are you just deleting my postings because I’m white?
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sondis said:
xPraetorius:
I’ll go tell the most powerful man in the world, the President of the United Staes how powerless you say he really is, and all about this white supremacy stuff you talk about.
You said: “I never heard of a white person, suffering any of the above as a result of a black person, accusing them of being a racist.” My reply: Then you haven’t been paying attention. Go look up, say for example, “Deen, Paula.”
Your list of the problems black people face were indeed problems to which white people contributed. But the vast majority of whites stopped doing that more than 50 years ago, and white racism is no longer a big problem in America. Not as big as, say, black racism or black-on-black violence, or black-on-white violence.
Best,
— x
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Is thug a slur?
“f’ck off” is okay, but thug culture is not?
Thug culture committed this crime.
I hope Jones, who looks to be of mixed race, burns – he is guilty as sin for driving while his friend murdered someone. Even if he was as white as Ward Cleaver, I would want him to burn for this.
Thug culture is not owned by black America, nor is it made up entirely of black Americans.
Thug culture needs to be stamped out.
If Open season on thugs were declared – how would you feel? would you cry out about white genocide or would you take a wait and see approach, being on the look out for abuse?
This is the same post as previous – what slurs are here?
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Riverside_Rob
“Are you just deleting my postings because I’m white?”—The race card…really Rob?
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@ Riverside_Rob
“Thug culture is not owned by black America, nor is it made up entirely of black Americans.”—Don’t have a heart attack or anything, but I agree with that.
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@ Anne
I think it turned out worse than you predicted…unless you predicted the worse. At which point I stand corrected.
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Brothawolf said:
xPraetorius:
Some corrections are needed in BW’s very inaccurate post. They are inline in bold.
Best,
— x
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sondis,
I hear ya, brothawolf, i feel depressed in some sort of way, too.
We as black people, always have had the burden of being subjected to adverse treatment by white people for the crimes that some black criminals, commit.
There is no escaping this as we are all judged as a group, via racial stereotypes, despite being a black person with no criminal record, we will still have that burden of suspicion, placed upon us as a race of people.
But at the same time, white males have the privilege of not being collectively labeled by the likes of the Columbine shooters, Timothy McVeigh, The Craigslist killer, the Boston Marathon Bombers or other notable and lesser-known white males (and white females).
No one asks or discuss if there is a problem with white criminal culture. No one would argue for stop-and-frisk in white communities. No one would blame rock or pop music (but may instead find some fault in hip-hop and rap instead). And when I say no one, I don’t mean ‘no one’ in an absolute sense.
Yet, people will wonder what’s wrong with black people. “Why do they have such an investment and crime and violence” will be the question. Like Riverside_Rob stated, they will call the killings as part of ‘thug culture’ in which ‘thug’ is a code name for ‘black’ or ‘black male’. They have already connected Chris Lane’s murder suspects James Edwards, jr. with that of the rap he was discovered to have been listening to.
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^ Again xPraetorius is completely ignoring the fact that one of the two supposedly “Black suspects” is actually 50% White.
You see, when a Mixed person becomes President, then White people will gladly bring up the fact that he is half-white… but when he is a criminal, they will immediately proclaim him to be Black. Half-white people are only people who have achieved good things. Mixed people who do bad things are always 100% Black.
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“We all know society…” (Brothawolf’s actual words)
“…all of society…” (xPraetorius’ misreading / misinterpretation of Brothawolf’s words)
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BrothaWolf said:
xPraetorius:
You just got through lecturing me at some length in a different thread about how I should feel shame for all the stuff done by people who’ve been dead for more than 100 years, with whom I share nothing but skin color, and now you say you shouldn’t feel ashamed when black kids kill a white man (in Spokane, Wash., for example). One rule or standard for me, and another for thee, BW?
I have an idea: how about nobody should feels ashamed for anything they did not do. How ’bout that?
BW: You share just as much blame for Christopher Lane’s and Delbert “Shorty” Belton murders as I do for slavery, segregation, Jim Crow, etc.: none at all.
Best,
— x
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King said:
xPraetorius:
Nope.
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@ Fiamma
““…all of society…” (xPraetorius’ misreading / misinterpretation of Brothawolf’s words)”—That appears to be a common happening.
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King said:
xPraetorius:
Oh, and King, no one’s “pure” any ethnicity, except maybe the Inuits in the far north. All the media — right-wing, left-wing and otherwise are referring to the three as “two black teens and one white teen.” I’m just going with the flow, man…take up your detailed race measuring case with them!
Best,
— x
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Fiamma said:
xPraetorius:
From that someone is supposed to deduce (1) that not all of society will view them incorrectly, and (2) just how much of society will view them incorrectly?
No, Fiamma, I didn’t misinterpret anything.
Best,
— x
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Sharina
I can not tell you how to feel or guide you in the direction to not feel that way, but I see this as a wake up call. This should be the moment when America realizes it has major issues. That something needs to be done when a persons response to killing another is “we were bored.”
I really don’t know. America has had numerous ‘wake-up calls’ in the past, but it prefers to go back to sleep again.
If Chris Lane’s murder was the straw that broke the camel’s back, it may be a good thing, but it will be another case of how much white lives are valued in America.
As a side note, last year, there was a mass shooting in Oklahoma(?) where two white guys went on a shooting spree on black folks They killed three of them and seriously injured two more:
http://brothawolf.wordpress.com/2012/04/08/whiteness-gone-wild/
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These guys are scumbags. It could have been anyone jogging down the street for all I care. To be gunned down like an animal is horrible. I just cringe to think it could be my love ones. All of them should be executed. Since when are teens so bored? Volunteer at the local hospital or retirement home.
This is no way like the Trayvon Martin case because George Zimmerman clearly pursued this young black man even when he was told not to.
In any case, Zimmerman and these three boys should be executed.
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Solesearch,
Really? It’s an international incident. The man was Austrailan. There was international outrage at the Trayvon Martin case and the black guy they put to death for killing that cop…You can help but feel it. You should analyze your racist beliefs that lead to those feelings.
I don’t even know how to respond to your comment. I’ll just leave it at that.
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king
You see, when a Mixed person becomes President, then White people will gladly bring up the fact that he is half-white… but when he is a criminal, they will immediately proclaim him to be Black.
If someone is 50/50 then they’re 50/50. That’s not an opinion. That’s what it is. However, this criminal made it clear he identifies as “black” by putting a “Black Power” banner across the top of his Facebook page.
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@ Brothawolf
Thanks for sharing.
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I know I said I wouldn’t, and that I’m setting myself up for more punishment, but…
xPraetorius
Read these articles:
http://www.womanist-musings.com/2013/05/please-dont-let-it-be-one-of-us.html
http://blog.ctnews.com/mixingitup/2012/02/03/please-don%E2%80%99t-let-him-be-black%E2%80%A6/
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Riversiderob,
What is open season? We have a legal system for dealing with criminals. We don’t need any vigilantes. A lot of white people believe any black man is a thug and all white criminals are just mentally ill.
If we want to change the thug culture we have to stop treating the poor and the non-white as throwaways.
If you continuously treat young people like crap, they’ll act like crap. You treat them like their lives aren’t worth much then they will believe you and throw it away by hurting others and themselves.
The only way to get our young people to act better is to treat them better.
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This Tumblr page with links illustrates what I mean with news reports first saying that all three suspects were black, and how most of the coverage that came later focuses mainly of the two black teens:
http://sonofbaldwin.tumblr.com/post/58915033632/american-racist-magic
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From Salon
http://www.salon.com/2013/08/23/the_rights_obsession_with_black_crime/
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@brothawolf
The comments on that salon article.
You were right about people using this in support of stop and frisk.
Unfortunately, blacks are not seen as individuals when it comes to these things (or seen as individuals, period).
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@xpraetorious
I see we have a Closet White Nationalist Troll on the thread. Let’s see what you are made of.
There are questions below.
Where is this “black supremacy” you speak of?
Who are black people systematically oppressing, by keeping another group of people deprived economically, socially & denied the most basic of rights?
Are black people going out of their way to lock people up in another races’ community & purposely ignore & deflect from the crime that goes on their communities?
Are black people using WHITE-on-WHITE crime (which is the majority of crime, based on the raw numbers, the whatever definition of white, the crime statisticians use) , and using a media outlet to criminalize the image of whites on a daily basis?
Why when WHITES commit crimes against each other, we don’t ask what wrong with these white people, and there presumably inherent criminality?
Is there ANY law on the books, where black people EXCLUSIVELY benefit, at the exclusion of another group?
Are we lynching white
1. What does xPraetorious mean?
2. What is exactly is a white person?
I am very interested in your response.
——————
Racism =/= bigotry & prejudice.
Racism requires a collective effort of bigots which the power/resources to execute their racist ideologies.
Black people in America based on their collective actions.
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White supremacy is gonna do what white supremacy does.
When looking through the lens of race, it is hard to see where it is racial & where it is just natural law.
So, it seems like Jones white skin is giving him a pass AND because he is confessing, he is gonna get off light.
Always remember guys
“BLACK FOLK don’t have a problem, BLACK FOLK problem is that WHITE FOLK have a problem.”
Booker T Coleman
————–
Still a sad case & I hope that the black & bi-racial teen have above average law representation.
Good Day
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@ brothawolf
that is crazy they said it was 3 black males that did this crime. Reminds me of when their ignorant arses said it was dark skinned males that did the boston bombing. I don’t watch the news much anymore if I hear something I wait a couple days to weeks so they can get their story straight because usually the first day they make stuff up. The news is the new susan smith I tell ya.
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Michael has had run ins with the law and is suspected of a string of armed robberies.
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Adonis said:
xPraetorius:
My inline responses are above, in bold face.
Best,
— x
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mstoogood4yall said:
xPraetorius:
Quick correction: This is another fabrication. The major media outlets all at first did not give the race of the suspects. When they did, it was reported, accurately, as two black teens and one white teen.
Best,
— x
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mstoogood4yall said:
xPraetorius:
Another fabrication. The initial reporting came from the liberal media, and stated that the speculation was that the perpetrator or perpetrators were probably right-wing whites. No major media outlets ever reported that anyone suspected any black person or persons. Of course there was also initial speculation that the bomber(s) might be muslims. This is naturally to be expected.
Best,
— x
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why did the white guy get charged as an accessory? but the black guys were charged with first degree murder?
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Lonely Voice said:
xPraetorius:
More mind reading. Who, pray tell, doesn’t see blacks as individuals and how on earth can you tell what these people are thinking? The answer’s simple: you can’t.
Best,
— x
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kimlovesjozi said:
xPraetorius:
My understanding was that the white thug was the driver, while the other two were the planners and the shooter. Apparently, in Oklahoma law that would cause the lesser charge. I personally would be just fine with the white thug getting a first degree murder charge as well. However, if the law suggesting that this should be a lesser charge makes sense, then the lesser charge is correct.
Best,
— x
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Nobody’s pure? That’s really the best you can do when a person is half-white with a fully White parent?
Either you’re going to have to acknowledge ‘race’ or you’re not going to call anyone “Black” or “White” because as you say, nobody is pure and everyone is mixed.
Pick one.
And we’ll continue from there.
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Brothawolf,
“I don’t even know how to respond to your comment. I’ll just leave it at that.”
Sorry if I wasn’t empathetic enough, but I live in a predominately white area and when I watch the local news it is mostly white men committing horrendous crimes. So it’s hard for me to feel ashamed because a murderor turns out to be black. I guess it keeps me from internalizing racism. As you mentioned yourself a Native American guy and a white guy shot 6 black ppl, killing three, in OK last year just because they were black.
As for white people using this as an excuse to continue stops and frisk, they already have enough anecdotes of this nature to throw around. And if they didn’t, they have shown they aren’t above making up stuff. The legacy these thugs are trying to live up to is the one white folks made up for them to begin with. It’s not like this is anything new.
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Solesearch
My response –
Solesearch, I refute your final statement, and by extension, your whole post. Better behavior is garnered by severe punishment of bad behavior. Your sweetness and hugs approach has (in my opinion) ruined much of the generation now coming to adulthood. What is the response to better treatment of thug culture? more thug culture.
Put it this way – how well was thug culture treated 30, 50, 100 years ago? Not very well – how much thug culture behavior existed 30, 50, 100 years ago? Not very much.
The open season question was rhetorical, and while you didn’t directly answer the question I asked, your deflection shows the answer for you is that you’ll accept continued thug culture, as long as no blacks are injured by whites. I’m convinced that blacks can spot a black thug a mile away. I know that black thugs victimize the black community more than the white. So why does the black community continue to allow their young men behave this way? No good answer to that question has ever been seem by me, on this site. Directions to the broken record department are legion, but actually addressing why thug culture isn’t stamped out has not been addressed anywhere I can see it.
Solesearch – how would your “treat them better” approach work – nuts and bolts? What better treatments are needed in your opinion to produce better citizens from young people?
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according to mstoogood4yall’s link:
“Jones now faces a charge of accessory to first-degree murder and using a vehicle in the discharge of a weapon.”
that would imply he shot at the target from the car…
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or maybe he was just the driver, idk, it seems he would get a top count of murder 1 around these parts, ie the northeast, not sure what’s going on with this one…
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solesearch
Sorry if I wasn’t empathetic enough, but I live in a predominately white area and when I watch the local news it is mostly white men committing horrendous crimes. So it’s hard for me to feel ashamed because a murderor turns out to be black. I guess it keeps me from internalizing racism. As you mentioned yourself a Native American guy and a white guy shot 6 black ppl, killing three, in OK last year just because they were black.
I understand. Where I live, communities are heavily segregated and I live in a black neighborhood. Our only source for local news is the town’s newspaper. Most of the crime they report would have black suspects and it would be on the front page, mugshots and all. When I realized that was how they did things, I stopped looking at it.
But I also notice that if there was something community based, or there was an article about a white person that has done something considered positive and newsworthy, that makes the front page as well.
To date, I’ve never seen the front page of the newspaper that features anything positive concerning blacks. But most front page community event stories would feature whites or a mix of both whites and blacks.
I know where you’re coming from. I do. But For some reason I can’t help but feel a mix of sadness and anxiety. I never felt this way when I was younger before I started realizing how most news reports about crime focused on crime.
As for white people using this as an excuse to continue stops and frisk, they already have enough anecdotes of this nature to throw around. And if they didn’t, they have shown they aren’t above making up stuff. The legacy these thugs are trying to live up to is the one white folks made up for them to begin with. It’s not like this is anything new.
Right. It truly is nothing new. To right-wing pundits, politicians and commentators, this is like candy to them, and they enjoy using this is firepower against those who believe Trayvon Martin’s death was unjustified.
Then again, they’ve been doing it before Trayvon’s murder. With every black-on-white murder or violent crime that happens anywhere, conservatives and racists will find it and ride it to the ground.
But it shows that those people don’t really care about victims like Chris Lane or that WWII veteran as much as they care about them being victims of black crime. They see the victims of commodities for their racist political agenda.
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Riverside rob,
“Solesearch – how would your “treat them better” approach work – nuts and bolts? What better treatments are needed in your opinion to produce better citizens from young people?”
While I believe everyone can change my thoughts were geared toward preventing children from becoming criminals to begin with. I guess we have different philosophies. You think children become criminals because they have been over indulged therefore they need to be deprived. I believe children become criminals because they have been deprived therefore they need to be indulged. I don’t think those ideas are fundamentally different especially when I have the feeling what you think they’ve been given too much freedom and I think they’ve been deprived of discipline. Either way you look at it it is neglect. Our society neglects our children. I have a friend who was molested by his step father. My friend was also busted with drugs a few years later. Who do you think served more time? My friend.
We need to stop the sexualization of children. And we need to give harsh sentences to people who molest children. We need to treat them like children and not mini adults because they aren’t.
I grew up around thugs and I know what type of people they are. They are weakest and most broken people in our society. They are mentally ill. Who else kills someone because they are bored?
We need to provide trained behavioral therapists in schools. We need affordable psychological care for children. We need teachers who are trained to spot and report neglect and abuse. We need to stop these no tolerance policies that call for children to be kicked out of school. It’s completely counterintuitive.
I went to a high school that was half black half white. We didn’t read one book by a black author and they turned black history month into reading pays month which wasn’t even mandatory. We read the autobiography of Anne Frank and I believe that’s when I stopped trying in school. We didnt have one jewish person in our school but i guess that was as close the could get to monority literature. My U.S. history teacher told us the civil war had nothing to do with slavery. I was a very smart kid, I knew what was going on and the rest of the black kids knew too. I still made good grades, but I didn’t do as well as I could have. The education was obviously racists and therefore not worth my teenage time.
We need school curriculum that doesn’t exclude or whitewash the contributions and experience of the students’ culture.
I think that would be a good start. There are obviously numerous things that need to be done.
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Where is this “black supremacy” you speak of? [My reply: I’ve never said, written, thought, or even read the words “black supremacy” until your post.]
Black Supremacy, Black Tacism, Black Privilege. black people institutions where there is a system in place where they are impeding, denying another group economic & social progress.
There is no “black racism” in America. And nobody is collectively oppressing American whites at all.
Who are black people systematically oppressing, by keeping another group of people deprived economically, socially & denied the most basic of rights? [My reply: Presumably not a serious question. Racism, of course, has nothing to do with actions, but is a set of beliefs. Acts stemming from racism are, racist acts. It used to be that black people were generally denied equal rights and opportunities in America, but that hasn’t been the case for 50 years. Of course, anyone can commit racist acts or be a racist in general. ]
Now, you are being purposely obtuse. Smart people don’t get dumb unless they have an agenda.
If a person is PREJUDICED, but (s)he never had the power and/or opportunity to impose his prejudiced beliefs on others. (S)He is irrelevant. And that is not racism. That is prejudice.
And last time I checked, the criminal justice system doesn’t prosecute a person’s belief system, but the criminal acts of word & deed.
And collective racism today, is a more COVERT act. Whites (and the Zimmerman’s of the world, who whites supported) tuck there shirt in now, because there are real consequences (not always) when your racist ideologies rears it ugly head.
Racism from whites didn’t stop just because a few laws got passed.
Are black people going out of their way to lock people up in another races’ community & purposely ignore & deflect from the crime that goes on their communities? [My reply: No. ]
And for clarification. Whites go out of their way to lock up black people while deflecting & ignoring similar crimes that go on in their communities. There is a system in place for whites to have an easier time in the criminal justice system as long as they don’t offend the wrong person (usually a person of high social value/standing/position/power)
Are black people using WHITE-on-WHITE crime (which is the majority of crime, based on the raw numbers, the whatever definition of white, the crime statisticians use) , and using a media outlet to criminalize the image of whites on a daily basis? [My reply: Yes, some do. Melissa Harris-Perry, for one. Based on the raw numbers, per capita black crime — against victims of any race — is vastly more frequent. ]
Every day? MHP platform mostly talks negatively of whites, and post mugshot after mugshot of white criminals, on a daily basis?
Or is that when you are only listening to MHP when she talks negatively of whites?
Why when WHITES commit crimes against each other, we don’t ask what wrong with these white people, and there presumably inherent criminality? [My reply: We don’t ask that question about white people in general, because at this point in time per capita white crime is much lower than black crime. If white crime were to increase what, seven-fold? and catch up with per capita black crime, you can be very sure white people would be saying what the heck is wrong with white people?!? Very loudly. ]
Per-capita is your rhetoric to deflect from the raw numbers.
When whites talk of crime committed by black people, they conveniently leave out context.
Black people have an “economic excuse” to why crime happens in URBAN, centralized, economically deprived areas. Where black people live in very close quarters with no money.
There are not (if any at all) alot of poor white communities where whites are living in very close quarters and and another group of people are depriving them economically & financially.
How many blacks or anybody (leaving out domestic abuse & crimes of passion) for that matter commit crimes when they are financially & economically sound?
First of all, like I said above, alot of white crime is ignored. So, a white person has to do alot to get arrested, tried & convicted in America. Whereas, black people before & after the Civil Rights Bill passed have always been targeted.
Mythical inherent Criminality in blacks is just a convenient excuse to exercise racist policies by those who want to uphold a white supremacy & their privileged status.
Is there ANY law on the books, where black people EXCLUSIVELY benefit, at the exclusion of another group? [My reply: No. Unless you want to consider Affirmative Action policies as “laws.” They’re not, hwoever, laws, but rules and policies. ]
That act is tired X. Affirmative action is for MINORITIES.
Women, gays, non-white men.
And white women are the biggest beneficiaries of AA
So, the answer is that there is no law, policy, rule, that exclusively benefits black people at the exclusion of another group. Ever. In America.
So, again, so I ask you X, where is this BLACK SUPREMACY, where is this BLACK RACISM, where is this BLACK PRIVILEGE.
Smart people don’t get dumb overnight.
And whites have had alot of affirmative action policies for centuries now. Slavery. Jim Crow. Sundown Towns.
Which the wealth, exploitation & stealing that took place in the past, white men & women benefit to this day. And are not looking forward to redistributing wealth to right a wrong.
Are we lynching white [My reply: (1) who are “we?” (2) Since no one’s lynching anyone with any frequency, then I guess the answer is: “no.” ]
My formal question is/was
Is there a system in place where we are profiling whites and even killing whites, and we decide not persecute/convict the black perpetrator?
Because I can point to a few notable cases where whites have harmed/killed blacks & the they have gotten light sentence, acquitted or not persecuted at all.
When blacks commit crimes against whites (real or imaginary), law enforcement is extremely proactive in finding/arresting/trying/convicting the black perpetrator.
All whites have is OJ Simpson (which he had the best lawyers money can buy, and the prosecution was not on their A-Game) which whites to this day are still mad about.
1. What does xPraetorious mean? [My reply: Spelled “xPraetorius,” it’s the id I use on-line to maintain my anonymity. Presumably something like “Adonis.” ]
I know why you use it, I wanted to know if there is any meaning/significance behind the word. You didn’t use A name like “CrazyClarence” or “HidingInPlainSight”
2. What is exactly is a white person? [My reply: For the purposes of the various threads in which I’ve participated here, I’ve used “white person” to mean a person of European origin, having pale skin.]
You do know that there are native Italians have dark skin, but are considered “white”.
I am very interested in your response. [My reply: Ok. ]
——————
Racism =/= bigotry & prejudice. [My reply: Ok. When I use the word “racism” I mean racism. I use the words “bigotry” and “prejudice” to refer to other things. However, racism definitely pertains to race and races. The definition of racism that I use is: “a belief that race is the primary determinant of human traits and capacities and that racial differences produce an inherent superiority of a particular race” Since I harbor no such beliefs, I am not a racist.]
You keep shuffling this belief nonsense. And, the actions of the racist (white) men & women are the more relevant than what they are thinking.
You can fantasize about killing all day, and not be prosecuted.
Racism requires a collective effort of bigots which the power/resources to execute their racist ideologies. [My reply: Racism requires, of course, no efforts whatsoever. A racist is not required in any way to act on his or her beliefs. Nor does a racist, of course, need to hold power to hold racist beliefs. ]
You are being obtuse again. -ism is all about action.
If whites were just racist in thought & there was no tangible evidence of that in their words & deeds, we would not have this conversation.
Black people in America based on their collective actions. [My reply: Did you hit the “Post Comment” button too soon here?]
Yes
Black people in America based on their collective actions. Are not racist. We do business with everybody (Whites will rarely patronize a non-white business). We accept jobs from everybody (whites hate working for a black boss). We don’t mind living with anybody (but whites have gone out of their way to create all white towns & cities).
Blacks collectively are way more humanitarian to other races of people than the other way around.
xPraetorius:
My inline responses are above, in bold face.
Best,
– x
Stop listening to to right-wing rhetoric & get some better rebuttals
Good day.
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That last comment was for @xpraetorious
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These crimes are going to happen because 1% of our population are psychopaths – they don’t care if they harm other people.
Knowing that, one would think that we would have more restrictions on guns and ammunition.
Also, male aggression combined with easy access to guns and ammunition is a recipe for disaster.
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Adonis, this was part of xPraetorius’ reply to you concerning your question about black racism:
Racism, of course, has nothing to do with actions, but is a set of beliefs. Acts stemming from racism are, racist acts.
Is it me, or does it seem like he contradicted himself with this answer?
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Phfft.
thug [thuhg], noun
1. a cruel or vicious ruffian, robber, or murderer.
Thuggery is woven into the very fabric of American life, and is as American as apple pie. It is the bedrock of American culture and values, and has existed here at least since the first Europeans graced our shores. Whether it’s through physical violence, psychological violence, political violence, or economic violence, Americans — at all levels of society, including the rich and powerful, even including the GOVERNMENT — have participated in it; it’s how we solve our issues. We glorify it in the name of “history,” but also celebrate it as pop culture. You are extremely naive if you think “thug life” is only emblematic of the black and Latino street gangs that have emerged in the last twenty or so years.
Thuggery is war mongering, it’s counter insurgency, it’s genocide; it’s assassinations; it’s fraud, bribery, embezzlement, racketeering, extortion, blackmail, redlining, and money laundering; it’s police brutality; it’s discrimination; it’s Jim Crow; it’s forced relocation; it’s eminent domain; it’s false flag operations; it’s slavery and indentured servitude; it’s forced sterilization; it’s vigilantism; it’s disaster capitalism; it’s the S&L debacle; it’s Iran-Contra; it’s “nation building;” it is a whole bunch of stuff that we regularly promote and celebrate as American ideals.
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Brothawolf said:
xPraetorius:
It’s you.
Best,
— x
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grin and bear it said:
xPraetorius:
Just a silly attempt to lump in with thuggery, some things that plainly don’t belong in the concept, in order to discredit them. Anyone could play at that game, but, of course, it’s just a game not serious analysis. Some of g-a-b-i’s items are, on the other hand, strong arguments in favor of drastically limiting the size, scope and reach of government. Jim Crow, for example, was a set of laws implemented by the Democrat Party in the South. There are, however, no typical; “American ideals” that come remotely close to “thuggery.”
Best,
— x
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With Love Glenn said:
xPraetorius:
First statement is roiughly correct. One percent is too high, but otherwise a commonsensical statement.
Second statement doesn’t follow from the first. An equally valid conclusion would be to arm the population in order to permit them to defend themselves against the psychopaths.
Third statement’s observation should be amended to read “occasional disaster,” and is meaningless
Because the second statement is fallacious, and the meaninlessness of the third, the entire post says nothing of any value.
Best,
— x
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test
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Adonis said:
xPraetorius:
Hmmm…gonna be hard to reply as I usually do, so I’ll have to pick and choose from your stuff up top and bring it down here.
1. You said: “There is no “black racism” in America. And nobody is collectively oppressing American whites at all.”
My reply: Again, racism has nothing to do with actions. Presumably racists will commit racist acts, but a racist is not required to act as a racist. She can hide it and still be a racist. This group here has been trying to convince me of this “hidden racism” for several days now. I’ve long agreed that it exists, but not on the extent of it in American society today. I’ve asserted that black people today, far from facing racism under every rock and around every corner, rather are misinterpreting the vast reservoir of good held by the vast majority of whites toward them. I disagree with your assessment that “no one is oppressing whites.” The Central government is way too big and intrusive, and has been oppressing all Americans for some time now.
2.You said: “Now, you are being purposely obtuse. Smart people don’t get dumb unless they have an agenda.”
My reply: Nope. You and I agree as to what “racism” means. This is one of the major flaws of the race grievance industry and America’s political left: a mere disagreement on terms must, somehow, be a sign of bad faith on the part of the other guy. Thanks, I think, for calling me a “smart person.”
3. You said: “If a person is PREJUDICED, but (s)he never had the power and/or opportunity to impose his prejudiced beliefs on others. (S)He is irrelevant. And that is not racism. That is prejudice.”
My reply: Again, we differ only on terms. By the way, I believe that black racism does produce the racist acts that are oppressive to whites and to other black people. The rather virulent hate speech directed against me in several threads on this very blog is a small example. However, when, as I maintain, black people ignore the above-mentioned reservoir of good will from white people, that is a major factor in the racial tensions of today that affect all people negatively.
4. You said: “And last time I checked, the criminal justice system doesn’t prosecute a person’s belief system, but the criminal acts of word & deed.”
My reply: That is correct; racism, like other beliefs is perfectly legal. It’s morally wrong, but it’s legal. Interestingly, we have dipped or toes into the realm of trying to control beliefs. So-called “hate crimes” advance the odd proposition that there are more or less bad motivations to commit a crime. One small adjustment to what you said above. In theory, the First Amendment precludes “criminal acts of word,” except in a few fairly narrow instances.
5. You said: “Per-capita is your rhetoric to deflect from the raw numbers.”
My reply: Nope. Obviously “per capita” represents a means to compare the extent of something in two populations with very different membership numbers.
6. You said: “That act is tired X. [My reply: Tired, but correct.] Affirmative action is for MINORITIES. Women, gays, non-white men. And white women are the biggest beneficiaries of AA. So, the answer is that there is no law, policy, rule, that exclusively benefits black people at the exclusion of another group. Ever. In America. [My reply: If you re-read, you’ll see that I said “No” as well. AA was, indeed, for blacks to start out with. Yes, lots of other groups jumped onto the free money train, but it was initially for black people. ] So, again, so I ask you X, where is this BLACK SUPREMACY, where is this BLACK RACISM, where is this BLACK PRIVILEGE. [My reply: Again, since your use of the term “Black Supremacy” is the first I’ve contacted it, then I didn’t say it was anywhere. Black racism, however, is all around you. Look around.]Smart people don’t get dumb overnight. [My reply: throawaway line] And whites have had alot of affirmative action policies for centuries now. Slavery. Jim Crow. Sundown Towns. [My reply: Yep. Thank goodness those things are all gone now! Thank you for a compelling argument against current affirmative action policies!] Which the wealth, exploitation & stealing that took place in the past, white men & women benefit to this day. And are not looking forward to redistributing wealth to right a wrong.” [My reply: None of this last is correct. I made a convincing case on this very blog that any quantifiable theft has long been paid back, many times over. ]
My reply: That was the “Affirmative Action” section of your post. I had to answer each of your points inline, above, because of the number of them.
7. You said: “Is there a system in place where we are profiling whites and even killing whites, and we decide not persecute/convict the black perpetrator?”
My reply: No. Thank goodness the reverse scenario hasn’t been in place either for more than 50 years!
8. You said: “When blacks commit crimes against whites (real or imaginary), law enforcement is extremely proactive in finding/arresting/trying/convicting the black perpetrator. All whites have is OJ Simpson (which he had the best lawyers money can buy, and the prosecution was not on their A-Game) which whites to this day are still mad about.”
My reply: I very much disagree with your assertion about law enforcement. A serious problem with law enforcement is that black people are massacring other black people in cities all across America. We’ve all been hearing for a long time that to address that crime seriously — either with law enforcement, or other means — is racist. There is no indication that white-on-black crime receives less attention than black-on-white crime. As to your OJ comment: If OJ Simpson actually killed his ex-wife and Ronald Goldman, then any people who aren’t irritated by his acquittal would be pretty cold, caallous people. However, you are not able to read white minds to conclude that “whites are still mad about it” in any meaningful numbers. Presumably, some are. This is another omnipresent silliness on the part of the race grievance industry and the American political left: the nonexistent ability to read minds. Without the ability to fabricate thoughts, beliefs and states of mind in other groups, the race grievance industry would have nothing to say.
9. You said: “You are being obtuse again. -ism is all about action. If whites were just racist in thought & there was no tangible evidence of that in their words & deeds, we would not have this conversation.”
My reply: Of course not. No one is obliged to act 100% on their beliefs. If so, no Christian would ever mistreat any other person, because Christian doctrine forbids it. Christians are, however, imperfect. And, of course, no racist is ever forced to act in a racist fashion. As often mentioned in these pages, there is hidden, or as you say, covert racism. And, again, you and I will disagree with the extent of it.
10. You said: “Black people in America based on their collective actions are not racist. [My reply: Ok…however, as mentioned a group’s collective has nothing to do with individuals’ ability to be racist. If you have, for example, a group of 100 white people, 99 of whom are not racists, so that the group doesn’t act in a racist way, this does not in any way prevent that last white person from being a racist. ] We do business with everybody (Whites will rarely patronize a non-white business). [My reply: Unfounded speculation. This is, of course, not remotely a legitimate statement. For some evidence of this: In the supposedly racist deep South, whites and blacks patronized each others businesses freely and easily. When Democrat Party politicians implemented the Jim Crow laws, that commerce dipped dramatically, of course. However, there is no idication that white people shun black businesses. ] We accept jobs from everybody (whites hate working for a black boss) [My reply: Unfounded speculation. This is, of course, not remotely a legitimate statement. ]. We don’t mind living with anybody (but whites have gone out of their way to create all white towns & cities). [My reply: Whites have done this in the past, and don’t anymore in any meaningful way. The statement “We (black people) don’t mind living with anybody” is very suspect. There is a lively effort, for example, on the part of black students on college campuses across the country to self-segregate. I suspect that is an inevitable result of the widely exaggerated white racism on the part of the race grievance industry. ] ”
My reply: See the inline responses, in bold face. Easier that way.
11. You said: “Stop listening to to right-wing rhetoric & get some better rebuttals.”
My reply: No. I won’t stop listening to all sources of information and perspective, as I do now.
12. You said: “If a person is PREJUDICED, but (s)he never had the power and/or opportunity to impose his prejudiced beliefs on others. (S)He is irrelevant. And that is not racism. That is prejudice.”
My reply: If a person’s prejudice is based on race, that is racism. Racists are perfectly able to be irrelevant, just as non-racists are.
13. You said: “When whites talk of crime committed by black people, they conveniently leave out context. Black people have an “economic excuse” to why crime happens in URBAN, centralized, economically deprived areas. Where black people live in very close quarters with no money.”
My reply: I gather that this is your public declaration excusing black-on-black crime, the most common crime there is, per capita. I disagree completely with your basic premise that reduces poor black people, in your mind, to nothing more than beasts. I reject that premise vehemently. Furthermore, there is no correlation between crime and poverty. The lowest crime rate in American history — across the land — was during the Great Depression.
14. You said: “You keep shuffling this belief nonsense. And, the actions of the racist (white) men & women are the more relevant than what they are thinking. You can fantasize about killing all day, and not be prosecuted.”
My reply: You are correct about one thing: “You can fantasize about killing all day, and not be prosecuted.” We have not yet arrived at the point where we prosecute thinking. If we get there, then white racism will be the very least of anyone’s problems. You still cannot, of course, act on your murderous fantasies. And, if you are dreaming of killing white people, but don’t act on those fantasies, you are still a racist.
Best,
— x
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Some quick corrections to what I wrote above:
• I wrote for #1 above: “…vast reservoir of good held by the vast majority of whites…” I meant to write: “vast reservoir of good willheld by the vast majority of whites…”
• I wrote for #2, above: “My reply: Nope. You and I agree as to what “racism” means. ” Imeant to write: “My reply: Nope. You and I disagree as to what “racism” means. ”
• I wrote for #4, above: “we have dipped or toes” I meant to write: “we have dipped our toes”
• I wrote for #10, above: “My reply: Ok…however, as mentioned a group’s collective has nothing to do with individuals’ ability to be racist. ” I meant to write: My reply: Ok…however, as mentioned a group’s collective action has nothing to do with individuals’ ability to be racist.
Best,
— x
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@V-4
Most definitely. He might be labelled as “white”, but he definitely could easily pass as part black. In fact, to me, both Luna and Jones look part black to me, but Luna just looks a little bit more part black than Jones. I’ve seen persons with 2 mixed black parents or with one mixed black parent and one white parent and look very similar to Jones. I wonder if he decided to identify as white to find a way to escape white rage (and possibly a heavier sentence, or being tried as an adult).
@KOT
@BW
I really believe that the family and most of Australia are not really paying that much attention to the “race” of the alleged perpetrators, but at America’s gun violence. It is the American media which is racializing the incident, both the left and right, but esp. the right.
From an Australian viewpoint, the whole incident would simply not have occurred in Australia, regardless of the racial background of the teenagers, or whether the teenagers were bored or if they were initiating into a gang. They would have seen it as entirely preventable had the teens not had access to guns.
But of course, guns were not needed to kill James Craig Anderson in Jackson, MS. Maybe they could have found another way to kill him, but I bet most Australians would tend not to think so.
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@ Riverside_Rob
You used “YT” which counts as a slur on this blog:
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@sharina,
Yes, it is bad. Agabond brought it on himself.
And I did predict the worst. Several times. It even spread to the open thread.
As far as I am concerned this blog has been taken over and the rest of you can’t do anything about it. There is only one person who can fix this.
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@jefe,
Funny thing about the James Craig Anderson case, it didn’t and still hasn’t received as much attention as this case. And in my opinion, it was worse because the teenagers in that case deliberately drove to another town specifically for the purpose of killing a person. But again, barely any reports or outrage. Scary.
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@ solesearch
“I grew up around thugs and I know what type of people they are. They are weakest and most broken people in our society. They are mentally ill. Who else kills someone because they are bored?”—Preach it!!!
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@ Brothawolf
“Is it me, or does it seem like he contradicted himself with this answer?”—It is best not to even bother to analyze it. You could find everything wrong with it and he/she would still avoid it.
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@ Anne
It’s a delicate balance. Without allowing dissenting comments (even copious comments) you are left with a cadre of yes men and back slappers. Every comment is met with agreement on why the dominant perspective is so very correct. “Excellent post Abagond! I couldn’t have said it better myself! – Cosign!” I realize that this would be a kind of nirvana for some. To just have a place of peace where everybody agreed with what’s being said, with only the rare minor correction from time to time. No need to argue… disagreement with The Perspective is only the “belittling” and “imperialistic” bullying of minorities.
On the other hand, you can allow sharply dissenting ideas to be introduced and discussed. That means that both posts and comments are subject to criticism and even derision. It means that those who bring such challenges may never be convinced, no matter how clearly The Perspective is explained and defended. That is the risk and the dilemma—to cast out contrary opinion based on a vote of the majority opinion holders, or to let opinions and discussions stand or fall on their own merits—judging that those who take the time to read will come to their own conclusions based on the arguments presented. You can either have ideological purity, or ideological freedom, but you cannot have both.
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jefe said:
xPraetorius:
Doesn’t anyone see the sheer wacko lunacy of that entire paragraph?!?
Look at (1) that paragraph, and (2) the picture of Jones. This completely goofy paragraph would have everyone agree to the following premises: (1) Jones pays close attention to race relations in America, (2) Jones thought: “I know, I’ll just ‘identify as white’ (<– who ever thinks like that?!?) and I’ll escape white rage (and possibly a heavier sentence, or being tried as an adult),” and (3) there is any rational or calculating thought going through the brain of anyone who can claim with a straight face: “I was bored, so I went out to kill someone.”
Worse, I’m figuring that most of this group agreed with jefe’s nonsensical flapdoodle.
Best,
— x
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@kimlovesjozi
“why did the white guy get charged as an accessory? but the black guys were charged with first degree murder?”—I want to say snitch, but I know of a case where there were three blacks and even the driver got the first degree murder charge.
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Damn Abagond,
You need to spray some troll-be-gone (immediately…).
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jefe said:
xPraetorius:
My favorite part of this twaddle is: “He might be labelled as “white”, but he definitely could easily pass as part black. In fact, to me, both Luna and Jones look part black to me, but Luna just looks a little bit more part black than Jones. I’ve seen persons with 2 mixed black parents or with one mixed black parent and one white parent and look very similar to Jones.”
It would be truly difficult to put together a more ridiculous, nonsensical, meaningless, unknowable bunch of bovine waste products than that! What, pray tell, does “a little bit more part black” mean?!? Who here is truly willing to admit that he or she is reduced to considering that legitimate analysis and commentary?!?
Best,
— x
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phoebeprunelle said:
xPraetorius:
Better not. You’d lose everyone from this thread but Abagond and me.
Best,
— x
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@ Adonis
The “truth” of most stereotypes – not all of them, of course, but most – is in the opposite of what they say. So “black pathologies” is just a white projection of “white pathologies”.
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King said”
xPraetorius:
Nicely said, K! And true! My sincere apologies if this means that you lose friends here.
Best,
— x
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abagond said:
xPraetorius:
@Abagond: At the risk of falling into TruthSeekerian sophistry: your first statement doesn’t lead to your second.
Second: Needless to say, then, you’re saying that “white pathologies” — so prevalent in black stereotypes regarding whites — are merely black projection. I’m not saying that to be cute here, but to say that I truly think you might be trying to say that. In other words: that the two races are simply talking past each other, with one group saying: “You stink!” and the other responding: “I do not walk on my hands!” — and both pretending they’re arguing about the same things.
Best
— x
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@XPraetorious
You don’t need to be a full sheer race analyst to know that your skin color will largely determine your treatment by others in America.
Again, the modern convenient excuse is mythical inherent criminality in blacks.
That would hold up if blacks weren’t racially targeted (again, not attacked because an individual white wanted to achieve basic sustenance & needed money) since the end of slavery up until now.
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I assure you, I’m not going to lose any friends here. I disagree with many if not most of your points (the ones I’ve had time to read) but I also value the principles that allows you to make them.
Lock-step reasoning is anemic and boring. I wish there was an intellectually honest and reasonable way to shut you up, but there just isn’t.
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@king, that is not what is bothering me about this situation. You can have disagreements without the sort of behavior I see going on here. It just reeks of desperation and neediness. Just bizarre. I’ve read disagreements on this blog before that didn’t have the childish drama that I see going on here. There is very little value in the comments being made by them/it. So why let them/it continue to post just so you can say that you are allowing dissenting opinion? That’s a weird way to prove your validity as a blog.
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King said:
xPraetorius:
@K: That’s just one of the best, most honest, coherent posts I’ve seen so far! Love it! I re-read it three times for the sheer perfection of it!
I fear your point of view is in the minority here, though. In that case, welcome to the minority, here with me! I’ve the next round!
Best,
— x
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@BrothaWolf
He is trying to bare bones the argument on a false premise.
Beliefs are not hurting anybody. People would be fine with racist whites as long as they did not act on their beliefs.
Also, he is on some “everybody can be racist” to make it seem like when bigotry & prejudice is practiced, it has equal results.
And he could not point out any black system in place to oppress another group.
Another thing is, if there are black people who do harm to whites with clear racial intent.
Whites conveniently forget that they threw the first stone, brick, boulder, spear, & rocket launcher.
@Abagond pointed it out. White people have these racial pathologies/disease that they project on to black people.
Black people are just reacting to white constant, internal discomfort with being a global minority, having recessive genes & want to maintain their privileged status over blacks.
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@BrothaWolf Unearned privileged status*
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Adonis said:
xPraetorius:
Uhhh…yes, you do have to be a valid “race analyst” to draw any conclusions about race, otherwise you’re just guessing. I hope that guesses don’t yet constitute serious analysis.
And, again, the idea that “inherent black criminality” is a widespread opinion among white people is just illegitimate mind-reading. Is crime more common among blacks? Yes. Is it inherent? No one whom anyone takes seriously tries to make that case.
Your quote: “your skin color will largely determine your treatment by others in America” is true except for the word: “largely.” It is a factor to a small extent, but only one factor among many. I take a back seat to no one in bemoaning the deficiencies of the American system of justice. For example: Does it discriminate against poor people? I think the answer is yes. Poor people can’t afford top-quality legal representation; pure and simple. That black people are disproportionately poor is also true. Are black people disproportionately in contact with the American system of justice? Yep. But not because of their race. I’d very much welcome a discussion of how to get black people out of poverty, in a country that is loaded with opportunity for them to do so.
So, I will put you on record as stating that the white thug, Jones, was really on top of race relations in America and in his home state, and went out to murder Chris Lane because, with his sophisticated racial reasoning, he figured that the sure life sentence he would get would mean he “got away with it.”
Do you guys even read what you write?!?
Best,
— x
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– x, Please do not use stats during the depression era. On the whole the treatment of poor people wandering around hobo’s as they were called is not something to be delighted over. Several News Papers of the time will give you the litmus to understand the climate. I would also like to say if you think that during this time there were many incidents of whites killing blacks to take the jobs they had. Especially if you are looking at the railroads. This time period not a great or shining example of American humanity especially in the majority ethnic group.
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Adonis said:
xPraetorius:
@Adonis: you’re lucky Abagond won’t allow me to use my editing shortcuts here! It surely would save me time! 🙂
Best,
— x
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King of Trouble
xPraetorius: Regardless, the Great Depression was a time of very low overall crime. There is no correlation between crime and poverty. There is a direct relationship between crime and criminals.
Best,
— x
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Haha oh wow
There’s no “sharp dissent” here, xPraetorius is soft, beats around the bush, and coddles your black feels like all whites do.
————————
Here’s some sharp dissent, the kind that hurts:
Abagond’s retarded post convinces me you blacks are just like the ‘white racists’ you hate so much.
People are saying blacks killed Lane because it was the two blacks who attacked him. The white kid just drove the getaway car. It’s the same reason he’s getting lighter charges. You wanna talk race labeling? Look at how many of your precious black “leaders” called Zimmerman white. They’re still doing it to suit their little black-n-white world and getting you all whipped up.
Notice how you blacks get sensitive and start claiming one of them is mixed? How come you don’t jump to point out that Zimmerman is mixed? And Obama? See, you only apply the one drop rule when it favors you.
If Zimmerman had posted tweets about hating 90% of blacks, would you not associate racism with his motive? That’s what I thought. See, blacks can look at their own racism, and then excuse it by saying “He’s not racist… he has a white friend. His girlfriend is white. His mom is white.” But complain when white racists use the same excuses.
They didn’t arrest Zimmerman right away because he could claim self-defense (and rightfully so). None of the teens here could do the same, because it was obviously not in self-defense. And what does the time before arrest have to do with possible racial motives? Nothing. It’s just a way for you to derail from even talking about the possibility that blacks might be racist.
If all blacks are like the ones represented here, then you deserve, repeat, DESERVE every bit of racism you get.
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@ tiandi
“People are saying blacks killed Lane because it was the two blacks who attacked him. The white kid just drove the getaway car.”—Driving a car does not excuse his participation in killing someone so it was not just too blacks that lead to the death of this individual but two blacks and a white.
“You wanna talk race labeling? Look at how many of your precious black “leaders” called Zimmerman white. They’re still doing it to suit their little black-n-white world and getting you all whipped up.”—I am going to guess that you are not aware of the numerious race labeling documents that would allow him to check white of Hispanic decent. Which would categorize him as white, so if you don’t like it…be mad at the system.
“Notice how you blacks get sensitive and start claiming one of them is mixed? How come you don’t jump to point out that Zimmerman is mixed? And Obama? See, you only apply the one drop rule when it favors you.”—Funny you say this as all I hear from hardcore blacks is Obama is mixed.
“If Zimmerman had posted tweets about hating 90% of blacks, would you not associate racism with his motive? That’s what I thought”—Why ask a question that you just are going to answer yourself. I see your mind is made up in regards to how we think so no need to proceed with responding to your post.
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“People are saying blacks killed Lane because it was the two blacks who attacked him. The white kid just drove the getaway car.”
That was the story you were told. I know the sheeple, including you, tend to believe everything the media tells you. You were not there, nor have you seen any eyewitness accounts. Innocent until proven guilty, right? Or does that not apply?
“You wanna talk race labeling? Look at how many of your precious black ‘leaders’ called Zimmerman white.”
Zimmerman labels himself as white, and so did Officer T. Smith. Check the facts next time.
“If Zimmerman had posted tweets about hating 90% of blacks, would you not associate racism with his motive?”
There was at least one witness who alleged that Zimmerman and his family were known for making racist statements. He also associated with Frank Taaffe, who made openly racist comments.
“If all blacks are like the ones represented here, then you deserve, repeat, DESERVE every bit of racism you get.”
A statement that just proves how racist you are.
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I am glad you got something right today.
Any other conversation. You can be logical & sound & make sense. But the race issue undermine you otherwise sound intelligence.
You are not going to come out and say that you are on some White Nationalist vibe, but through your posts to try to rationalize bullsh*t, your intent will shine.
Please explain this in as much detail as time allows. I did not get the gist of your message. Or maybe I did, and I need to make sure to know where you are coming from.
Because at the end of the day. Whites & blacks are still not equals in terms of wealth, networks & infrastructure. That is what matters. Your good will is useless to the majority of black people coming from a unearned privileged position.
Most crimes committed in America are INTRA-racial. There is nothing racist about a black person doing harm to another black person. I concede that it is oppressive.
And your fake concern about crime where black people involved is telling & unnecessary.
You can spend your life advocating for the ending of Methamphetamine that is adversely affecting white communities across America.
You can dedicate your mental energy toward the myriad of child molestation/sexual abuse cases from whites by whites & still won’t have any time to deal with black crime.
Lastly, you keep leaving out economics. You are making the argument that if most black people had their basic needs met & had access to jobs. Blacks would commit crime just because that is who they are.
Sociology, History & modern global black cities kill that whole premise.
Again, hate speech, although can be criminal & prosecuted, is not equal to, a Trayvon Martin situation or a James Craig Anderson situation.
And to give a semblance of fairness, white people also have Colin Ferguson, the guy who senselessly murdered whites on the LIRR
Actual racially motivated acts are relevant. Stop with the bullsh*t analytics on thoughts & intent.
I agree
And based on your “per capita” analysis what conclusion do you draw when black people commit crime against each other vs. white people commit crimes against each other?
Because if you ask me, blacks & whites commit crimes for the same reasons.
Economics, crimes of passion, and just because they were “bored”, etc.
I am glad you get that point.
If there was any law on the books where black people would exclusively benefit at the exclusion of any other group. Whites would burn this country to the ground.
So, again, so I ask you X, where is this BLACK SUPREMACY, where is this BLACK RACISM, where is this BLACK PRIVILEGE. [My reply: Again, since your use of the term “Black Supremacy” is the first I’ve contacted it, then I didn’t say it was anywhere. Black racism, however, is all around you. Look around.]
There is no black racism. And how is this affecting other groups of people.
If a black person is robbing a white person for his cash, how is that any different from an Asian, Middle Eastern, White person robbing a white person for his cash?
I understand where you are coming from when you speak of Colin Ferguson & black people like him.
But black people who terrorize whites just for racial kicks is a very rare occurrence.
But whites still hugely benefit from those racist acts.
I would like to see this argument. Links? Receipts?
Fake outrage. And how does black on black crime affect you as a non-black person?
Because it is racially motivated.
There is enough white on white crime going on to keep law enforcement busy for the next five decades.
But white law enforcement is not intend for a white society.
Right after the civil rights bill passed, when white citizens could not openly discriminate against black people, that is when law enforcement became an issue in our communities.
OJ still comes up in race conversations when trying to prove this “black racism” BS you are peddling to deflect from real racism.
And from your analysis, why is black on black crime, per capita happening at such a large rate.
See: Gangs of New York
When white people were poor and fighting for sustenance historically, they were doing harm to each other.
Also, in the Great Depression, white criminals & Organized Crime was the business.
The difference here is, whites glorify these criminals now (in movies) and those whites who started the first gangs in American got help from the government.
Furthermore, there is no correlation between crime and poverty. The lowest crime rate in American history — across the land — was during the Great Depression.
So, can you point to any point in America in a economically sound black area, and crime is just a way of life.
In your opinion, why do people commit criminal acts?
Our interaction was very productive.
Good day
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Lord, it’s like more racist are coming out the woodwork. *Sigh* Abagond, I know you said free speech and all that jazz, but seriously it’s starting to get nauseating from “some” of these users. *groan*
Oh yeah, I forgot to mention
TY @Sondis that was very informative especially the point about making the black children as adults compared to the white accomplice (I never thought about that)
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Your prior instances of fallacious reasoning were exposed in the “Notes on xPraetorius” thread. They destroy any credibility you may have as an authority on the word sophistry, as illustrated here:
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Adonis said:
xPraetorius:
Much better, Adonis! Congrats! Lots here, but I’ll try to cover the salient points. If I already covered something in either this thread, the “Notes on x” thread of the “Hitler” thread, I’ll mention that.
Best,
— x
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– X, there is all indication that during this time many crimes went unreported. I do not know if I can agree with you that poverty does not create crime. During the depression there were many riots and of the cases of people fighting to stay on their land. Not to mention the tar and feathering of bankers, judges, and any authorities that was driving people off their land. There are also many accounts of homeless hobos going messing. I cannot trust a time in which a majority of people believed that it was ok to run people out of town until it came to themselves. I also question the over-all attitudes of those who had money.
In this case we see before us 3 idiotic children did something horrible. For a reason that has nothing to do with poverty put much to do with perception. The rest of how it plays out is a telling sign of our own country. We need help but because we don’t know how to help each other our country is sinking into a media whipped frenzy of stupidity. I am sure they were seeking attention and now they have it. For the record during the depression the biggest school massacre happened. We aren’t getting better and if we don’t take steps to get better well it is the same as pooping in your own backyard. Eventually you will step in it. This is all I am going to say because I have a few job interviews this week. Of all things it looks like I will be working with pre-school kids. Will see, wish everybody a good time.
– X, more bees with honey, that is all I am saying.
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King of Trouble said:
xPraetorius:
Again, wonderfully said. Best wishes for great success with the job interviews!
— x
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@Adonis
Actually; in the beginnings of the international slave trade; white people were intially victims of africans……so technically speaking they didn’t throw the first rock etc….
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@XPraetorious
Thanks
I will check those out at my convenience.
I am not a full-time academic & race researcher. And I would love to debate all day, but I have to get on with the business of living & full-time working to get the foot of white supremacy out of the black male’s collective @sses.
–
Last point. This good will / ill-will spiel is BS.
One of the main reasons why whites don’t overtly impede black success is because the international community (which are most brown people) will look at the US (who tries to impose themselves as a moral authority to the world) side-ways.
So, money & economic power is the only reason American whites don’t go all-out on their ill-will towards American blacks like they did from post slavery to 1964
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Adonis said:
xPraetorius:
It’s an interesting theory, this idea that we’re not mistreating black people so that we don’t look bad to the brown people throughout the world. It does contradict this idea that we white people are so all-fired obsessed with White Supremacy! Let’s face it, if we were all about White Supremacy, and we have nukes and all that we need to dominate the world, then why didn’t we just do it? And, of course, why would we white supremacists just hand over all the wealth and power and fame and prestige — culminating in the election and re-election of a black President — that we have in the past 50 years? No, I think it’s pretty evident that there’s a vast reservoir of good-will on the part of white people toward black people.
Best,
— x
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@xPraetorious
I conclude that the very FACT of vastly more black-on-black crime per capita than white-on-white crime OUGHT to permit ALL reasonable analysts to discuss it. Since people like you openly forbid white people from talking about it, I conclude that black people really ought to address it, and address it now.
I can’t speak for everyone, but my personal gripe with White people talking about Black crime is that it never evolves past “Black people commit more crimes than White people”, which is something that everyone always knew and merely knowing this factoid didn’t cause the stars to realign and purge the streets of crime, so I don’t much see the point of saying it again. But hey, I’ve always hated being told things I already know.
When it comes to actually DOING something about crime, at best White people offer no strategies at all, and at worse they endorse policies that only serve to further breed contempt and distrust between Black civilians and law enforcement (see Stop and Frisk). School-to-Prison pipeline, the lack of Urban resources, resegregation, deindustrialization, schools staffed with undertrained and jaded teachers, draconian drug laws (which is not to say I’m pro-drugs, I’ve never even been drunk, only to say we didn’t need to make cigarettes illegal to reduce smoking in America, and making alcohol illegal was an abject failure.) amongst other factors are rarely, if ever, mentioned by White people and attributed to the crime rate.
So, when I see a White person, and even Black, Latino, and Asian people for that matter, going on and on about the horrors of Black crime and “Bad Culture” it comes off as good ol’ self righteousness rather than anything constructive.
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D. said:
xPraetorius:
Some of what you say is on the nose, IMHO. However, you have to remember, white people aren’t allowed, publicly at least, to advance to the next stage beyond lets “talk about it.” The reason we’ve never heard any proposals from any serious-minded white analysts is because the cacophony of racism accusations stops all discussion.
I suspect that if the discussion were allowed to proceed, you would hear plenty of proposals. I have several myself, and have introduced them to several people. They’re serious proposals, and, I think would have a good chance of working.
However, I never get beyond the “Hey! I have an idea!” phase before the cries of “Racist! Get out! None of your business!” come out.
Best,
— x
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@ D., @xPraetorious et al.
I’ve just been through this so many times that I get sick of repeating the same answers to the same old questions (sigh)… here we go again…
Most Black people (originally) did not make a choice to come to America. They were brought here against their will. Once here, they were treated as sub-humans and told for centuries that they were the least of all the people of the earth. This cruel system went on for generations, until most slaves could not remember much beyond slavery. They were forbidden to speak in their native languages, to keep their native traditions, worship their native deities. They were essentially CULTURALLY ERASED so that they could be refit to serve in a slave culture where they should count themselves lucky to be tolerated.
Then the Civil War ensued… preservation of the Union, ,not the abolition of Slavery was the main issue until President Lincoln decided to push the Slavery issue forward in a stratagem to further weaken the South and turn the tide of the war. So once the Confederate States were defeated, the slaves were set free, which I will now define:
Freedom:
– Long term prison hard labor sentences for minor infractions like “Vagrancy”
– Racially ineligible for all important and most higher paying jobs in the U.S.
– Vastly inferior and racially segregated education
– Ineligibility for social programs – GI Bill, and Government Housing Assistance
– Herded into “Black” neighborhoods that were crowded and poor by design
– Not allowed to eat in certain establishment or to buy from certain stores
– Victimized by racist terrorists who bombed homes and even churches
– Subjected to uneven enforcement of the law
– Called names, spat upon, laughed at, hated.
So after centuries of slavery Blacks were subjected to another century of JIm Crow. Finally the Civil Rights movement commenced, and after assassination after assignation, finally slow, real, and meaningful change began to occur. That is the process that we are currently in today, one of slow, deliberate, improvement, and sometimes backwards steps.
Now everything on that list above was done intentionally by White society. Much of it was actually voted into law. Blacks were deliberately traumatized in order to intimidate, control, and subject them. So today when some of the restrains have come off the Black community after centuries of intentional abuse, the Black crime rate is proportionately higher than that of White people.
This is SHOCKING! I have no idea what could have caused this? Why is the Black Community so messed up? Can anybody guess?
But it’s not just Blacks that are having a hard time, it also seems like the Native American tribal peoples also have very high crime rate, fueled by drug and alcohol use. And Again, I’m SHOCKED! Can anyone figure out why these two groups would be having such problems adjusting and assimilating?
This is the idiocy of the White bootstrap theory. They continually blame Blacks for the very problems in their communities that White people took centuries to create. I’m not saying that Black people have no personal responsibility or agency in fixing these problems, I’m just saying that White people need to be understand that THEY are the source of these problems and then act with much more apology and humility in attempting to help solve them rather than complain and cry over their precious tax money. Be glad you don’t have to pay the real cost of what you’ve done.
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for those of you who are interested
Fox & Friends, Daily Caller Falsely Report ’3 Black Teens’ Arrested in Chris Lane Murder
“On Wednesday morning, Fox and Friends aired a segment in which they ostentatiously wondered why Revs. Sharpton and Jackson “haven’t come forward and said anything,” and even though they displayed a photo of the three suspects, which clearly showed that one of them is a white male, they quoted an Allen West tweet that said “Three black teens shoot white jogger.”
The Daily Caller actually improved on F&F. Initially, they ran a photo of the wrong Michael Jones, and issued a “correction”:
So, basically they were trying portray Jones as “racially ambiguous”
A Duncan police source confirmed to Mediaite, Wednesday morning, that 17 year-old Michael Jones is not “the one with the lightest skin,” he is a white male (so Jefe, safe to assume he is not mixed-race and getting a white pass.. if anything, media photos have a some “tint” making him seem darker)
It is true that 15 year-old James Edwards and 16 year-old Chancey Luna have been charged, as adults, with first-degree murder, while Jones is charged as an accessory after the fact, but Jones is also reported to have said “I pulled the trigger” (see update) in court Tuesday.
As the boys appeared in an Oklahoma courtroom, a 17-year-old blurted out, “I pulled the trigger,” then wept after a judge told him that Tuesday’s hearing wasn’t the time or place to sort out the facts of the case.
http://www.mediaite.com/online/fox-and-friends-daily-caller-falsely-report-3-black-teens-arrested-in-chris-lane-murder/
article with “untinted” image of Jones (white teen)
Regardless if this white boy pulled the trigger or not, he was a part of this Crime and all 3 of them should be charged equally. If he was the driver, he slowed the car down sufficiently so that Luna could get a clear shot
It’s sad that this is being turned into something racial but we do live in America, so let the circus begin.
I really feel sorry for Lanes family– it’s unfortunate that they have to suffer this pain because these 3 AH couldn’t find something better to do than follow this young man
no one should have to lose their loved ones so randomly like this, especially since C. Lane was minding his own business… just like Trayvon — that is the only similarity between the Lanes and the Martins — losing their loved ones for Absolutely NO Reason except the one Created by the Cowards that pulled the trigger.
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^Er, I’m not White, I’m Black. Did you even read what I wrote?
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@ Linda: Thank You for that.
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Susan Estrich, a white liberal and feminist, in her column of August 21st 2013 says they are all black:
http://www.creators.com/liberal/susan-estrich/looking-evil-in-the-eye.html
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D., I was actually cosigning with you, and disagreeing with X
Sorry, I should have made that much more clear.
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King said:
“Be glad you don’t have to pay the real cost of what you’ve done.”
*******
Or perhaps this … Be CONCERNED because you have YET to pay for the real cost of what you’ve done.
Since these UNIVERSAL laws known by various tags: sowing & reaping, harvesting, karma, chickens coming home to roost, divine justice, etc, are STILL in effect.
Reparations accompanied with a sincere apology would have negated or erased whiteness’ comeuppance but since there hasn’t been either of those offers of humility/forgiveness made to the injured parties to date ….. payment in one form or another is still due. It’s THE law.
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Apologies, but going by his facial features and sallow skin tone, Michael Dewayne Jones does look to be of partial African descent.
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No probs, Mary.
Abagond, the American media needs to really pull back and take a long, hard look at themselves…
they are supposed to report the “news” but of late, they are seem to be OK with “making up” the news, then saying “oops, we made a mistake” as if that mea culpa takes back the damaging words they released into the stratosphere.
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@ : o O ) >
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@Linda
“It is true that 15 year-old James Edwards and 16 year-old Chancey Luna have been charged, as adults, with first-degree murder, while Jones is charged as an accessory after the fact, but Jones is also reported to have said “I pulled the trigger” (see update) in court Tuesday.
As the boys appeared in an Oklahoma courtroom, a 17-year-old blurted out, “I pulled the trigger,” then wept after a judge told him that Tuesday’s hearing wasn’t the time or place to sort out the facts of the case.”
What the heck?
They need to get to the bottom of this thing.
And now he is weeping?
#@$%^^$
Sad because you got caught.
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@ Lonely Voice
That did not make sense to me that he would say that, so I looked into it. According to a Duncan, Oklahoma reporter, Jones said he did NOT pull the trigger, that AP got it wrong. He says that if Jones HAD said he pulled the trigger, the bond hearing would have come to a screeching halt at that point. It would have been a huge needle-scratch moment.
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Abagond,
The whole controversy behind the white teen not being charged the same kind of reminds me of the case of Kenneth Foster Jr. and the law of parties in Texas.
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It is certainly possible, depending on how one defines “black”.
But still, why is this incident being racialized in this manner? I think most Australians just see 3 idle teenagers driving around with a gun. They would not see it as a “black on white crime”.
But indeed, what impresses me more is the reaction of the police and justice system and the conclusion one might draw:
White people are not condemning that justice is not being served. They are condemning blacks for not speaking out against the event. It is such an apples to oranges comparison.
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@ Brothawolf
Wow, never heard of this law, shoot im in tx, I just looked this up and saw a case where a guy was executed while the guy that did the murder got life, ain’t that some bull.
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Well I will say that the main shooter did express racist and hateful feelings towards whites on some twitter or facebook posts. I can not and will not lump all black people in this hateful category because of one wackadoo. *Dave would like to shake Abagonds hand. Balanced reporting is important, and I believe you did this here. That’s all i’ve asked for. Thank you.
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I’m hardly an expert but far as I know or have heard anyways; most black on black violence is drug related, and the US handles drug laws differently than a lot of nations and I think differently than we used to in the past as well.
And the black community didn’t use to be as violent in that regard, so it maybe something as simple as altering our drug laws or going back to an older set of them.
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so that . . . . ?
Is that related to this post?
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@ xPraetorius
I deleted your answer to TruthSeeker about your style of reasoning. He properly directed you to the right thread:
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abagond said:
xPraetorius:
And yet, I responded to the post in this thread. The net effect is that you allowed his irrelevant and hostile post to remain and deleted my countering response to it. I hope you don’t really consider that to be somehow right.
To be consistent, your only course of action should have been to delete his as well. after all, if it’s ok for him to refer to a different thread in attempting to counter something of mine in this thread — as he did — then it ought to be find for me to respond. Or else neither of us should be able to refer to the other thread.
Best,
— x
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@ xPraetorius
If you were not the sort who derails threads, I would not have deleted your comment. But you tend to make threads ALL ABOUT YOU. That is why I gave you a thread ALL ABOUT YOU. YOU are off topic EVERYWHERE on this blog except on that post ALL ABOUT YOU. In fact, if you want to answer this comment, do it on that thread ALL ABOUT YOU. Do it here and I will delete it on sight.
THIS thread is about Christopher Lane and related subjects. It is NOT about xPraetorius.
To point out the fault in a particular comment on this thread is ON TOPIC. To talk generally about YOU is OFF TOPIC.
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@ TruthSeeker
I deleted your comment about xPraetorius. Again, HE is off topic here.
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@xPraetorius
Some of what you say is on the nose, IMHO. However, you have to remember, white people aren’t allowed, publicly at least, to advance to the next stage beyond lets “talk about it.” The reason we’ve never heard any proposals from any serious-minded white analysts is because the cacophony of racism accusations stops all discussion.
Praetorius, White people are not afraid of being called racist. Case in point: in spite of having an entire thread made in your (dis)honor, you still come back for more.
There are dozens of books, articles, and audiofiles with White people talking about what needs to be done about crime, which range from “Bad Culture”, to urban economics, to r/K selection theory (I can rant forever about what’s wrong with that one using science alone). Most serious-minded White analysts default to the “Bad Culture” theory of crime (like George Will, iirc) which is just a less crass way of saying “not my problem or job to fix”. Seeing as how an “Urban Jobs Bill” isn’t even put on the table as an option or even a start, I would assume most Legislatures believe the same thing.
Or to put it another way: “When White people suffer high unemployment and fail in school, it’s the president’s fault. When Black people suffer high unemployment and fail in school, it’s Black peoples’ fault”, goes the conventional wisdom.
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@ D
Brilliant. Thank you.
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@ D.
Very well said.
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D,
Right on!
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@D& King: Well said comments.
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@D, Very well put Sir.
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Is Michael Dewayne Jones white or biracial if not I suspect this was a hate crime
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It can be a hate crime even if Michael is white.Many people commit hate crimes against members of their own race.I hear the KKK has black members.
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I don’t know if Michael is so called pure white, but he is classified as white. Now he may have a black or biracial in his family that passed or something as to why he looks the way he does. I don’t know for sure, but there have been whites who think they are pure only to find out they actually had a black grandfather/grandmother or great grandfather/mother that passed for white.
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yes it could be a hate crime if someone is the same race there are some who hate their own race. But it will not work, and the ppl that try it would be hypocrites. Why? because if they think oh George Zimmerman isn’t racist he can’t be he’s latino and has a black great great grandmother, and a minority can’t be racist toward another minority then they are right to be silent and say this wasn’t racially motivated as not to look like a hypocrite themselves.
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If they can prove these guys passed other races of ppl and singled out this white male then it could be a hate crime. Or if the guy that was making those tweets was the one who pulled the trigger then it could be a hate crime. But he did not pull the trigger.
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Then if Michael is not pure white then I have to question the whiteness of many of the individuals in my area. Not to offend anyone but he looks like those that many would consider white trash.
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This is almost funny. Some folks are so desperate to fit this into their anti-black racial narrative that they are trying to turn a white kid who has two white parents and a white girlfriend into a “black thug”. Sad. Racism is truly a mental disease.
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@ ks
yea I noticed that, they always try to re categorize ppl that do something bad but if they do something good then they say oh yes they are white. It’s a man that is black and he is from egypt but when they come here they make them classify as white, and now he is trying to change his race to black and he got shunned by whites and fired from his job because of it. They want the good people in their race, and the criminals they want to push off on us. That is why they are always talking about black crime, or oh its their culture of crime and rap. The biracial one they are calling black, but if he did something good, I bet they would say oh no he’s not just black he’s black and white. the black community has always been a dumping ground for ppl they deem unacceptable.
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@Sharina,
Many of those white people are indeed those that are part black. About 30% of white Americans (maybe 60-70 million) are part black and their numbers exceed that of the black population itself. What do you think are the demographic characteristics of “some” of that group?
What is “whiteness” by the way? Even people of European descent have to “pass” as white.
Having said that, I think it is wrong to attach racial labels on people who are vilified as being “bad” or praised for being “good”.
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The only time anyone would look at michael jones and think he could be black is after he just helped kill a white guy.
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@ jefe
Can’t argue that.
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D said
Best,
— x
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@solesearch,
I am sure you must have studied US history or know personally some of the millions of black Americans who did pass for white, or who could in situations to their advantage. Even I personally have known many black persons who did not look any more black than Jones.
Maybe we need a post on Walter White, one of the most prominent African-American Civil Rights leaders. He was black, led the NAACP for a couple decades, yet sometimes took advantage of being able to pass as white while conducting investigations on behalf of the NAACP, even infiltrating the KKK.
I know families where both parents were black, or at least where one parent is black, and some of the children socialized as black, and pass as black, while some of the siblings decide to pass as white.
I am not saying that this applies to Jones at all. But I cannot accept the assertion that the sole reason that people might think he could be black or part black is because of his alleged accesoryship to the murder of a foreign white man. I do acknowledge that some people consider being “good” as more white and “bad” as black, and that some people might even apply that reasoning to Jones, but certainly that is not the only reason, or even main reason why some might be doing it.
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jefe, I’ve heard of black people passing as white but this is only possible because of the one drop rule. Those people are usually more white than black.
However, I don’t know how that disproves my point. Actually, it proves it quite nicely. The fact that “black” people could routinely pass as white without rousing suspicion…He looks white. I don’t think anyone would suspect he was black under normal conditions. He may very well be partially black, but he is phenotypically white.
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I disagree that Michael Dewayne Jone has a white phenotype. His nose shape and width, his lower facial projection (i.e., he shows a degree of prognathism), the size and shape of his lips, his receding chin and yellowish skin tone are not typical of whites, but are actually much more typical of Blacks and persons of partial Black heritage.
My assessment that Jones’ appears to be mixed race has zilch to do with whom it was he allegedly murdered and everything to do with his facial characteristics.
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@Praetorius
If being called racist was a career ender, Bill O’Reilly, Glen Beck, and Rush Limbaugh would be out of the job. Using a racial epithet in the wrong context will put you in the streets.
“More invalid mind-reading”
I don’t know about you, but to me when someone says that there is something wrong with the way I act, think, walk, talk, etc. the implication is that it’s my responsibility to change that, not my critics’. Now, what is culture but the way a collective of people walk, talk, think, and act?
“Some states have low levels of unemployment for all races. They also tend to have — Oops! — Republican governors!”
Of the 10 states that have the lowest unemployment, 6 have Republican governors. Of the 10 that have the highest unemployment, 7 have Republican governors.
Of the 10 states with the lowest poverty rates, 4 have Republican governors. Of the 10 states with the highest poverty rates, 8 have Republican governors.
Of the 42 million African Americans in the USA, 32 million live in 18 states. Of those 18 states, 14 have Republican governors, yet we still suffer an unemployment rate that is roughly double that of the national average. All things being equal, neither party is on our side, but the Republican Party shelters more Stormfronteers than the Democrats, and a lot of the red states are in Dixie. No party is going to win the Black vote & Dixie at the same time, it’s never happened since the emancipation.
“However, there have been plenty of proposals to establish no-tax zones, with low- or no-interest loans to allow poor (therefore majority minority) prospective entrepreneurs to start their own businesses and help make jobs. Because these proposals have the words “low tax” or “no tax” or “tax incentives” in them, they tend to attract insurmountable opposition from the same Democrat Party that gets the vast majority of black votes.”
Taxes have never been proven to have an effect on employment. However, low- or no-interest loans could help since most employment is via small businesses. But at the end of the day, you can’t ignore the separation and stratification that occurs in America across the lines of race & class. Frankly, the White flight into the suburbs, and the Black flight that followed, drained the city of real and human capital (What is internationally known as a “Brain Drain”). Younger people are moving back into the cities, sure, but sky-rocketing property rates are pushing the very people that would otherwise benefit out of their homes. Then there’s the fact that Black people stand a worse chance of being employed than White people, even with equal credentials, equivalent criminal history, and that Affirmative Action thing in play. This issue is not going to be solved simply by lower taxes to incentivize hiring. Or pulling up your pants for that matter.
This is, of course, simplistic hooey.
Of course it’s simplistic, the conventional wisdom is always simplistic. Nor is it mine.
Most people of all colors understand that the current pathetic economy belongs to the President. There are still pockets of the less-than-informed who believe that it’s all Bush-Cheney, but there are fewer every day.
How so? iirc, the Housing Market crash that led to the recession began in 2007, though the practices that put the crash in motion occurred under Clinton’s presidency. You could say that the Stimulus and the Bailout made the recession last longer than if we had done nothing, but since we don’t have a machine that can peer into alternative universes and observe the “What if”, it’s all speculation and theory, and theory is a treacherous thing. Even history isn’t of terribly great use, since the economy of today is vastly different from the economy of 1930.
School failure rates across races are, of course, vastly more complex than could be explained by D’s misleading assertion.
Of course it is, again the conventional wisdom is not mine. However, while White Americans call on the government, local or federal, to “Fix our schools” (whether that means privatize, or kill the union, or what have you.) Black Americans are blasted for having a uniquely lazy culture, as if we have the latest books, the best teachers, impressive libraries, full stomachs, and impeccable vision.
Also, If you want to pretend there is nothing wrong with “black culture,” please feel free, but white people are not thinking the same of themselves. Two words: Miley Cyrus.
It’s hard to say there’s is any one thing wrong with Black Culture since there are so many Black Cultures. Likewise, Country music culture is not Heavy Metal Culture.
No, there’s no one — whom anyone takes seriously in public — running around pretending that white culture is either perfect, or even better than anyone else’s.
Er, Glen Beck, Bill O’Reilly, Rush Limbaugh are all taken very seriously. And while they may not find White culture to be “perfect”, they seem to think it’s better than most others, or at least less problematic. O’Reilly didn’t even know we ate with forks and knives and addressed our waiters respectfully until he saw with his own eyes; not only are these three considered experts on Black folks in depressingly large circles, they rarely if ever interact with Black folks to begin with.
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@D
@Xpraetorious is one of those closeted white national who uses questionable science, knowledge & rhetoric to explain away his racism.
Either he knows better and is playing dumb, or he is being hustled by the REAL white people (the elite) who know the deal.
Always remember RACISM is for white people.
Blacks are already being oppressed by law enforcement, Agent Provocateurs & constant government (ie. White) undermining.
Whites are being hustled by getting unearned privileges & believe the elite whites that they actually accomplished something historically & are better than black folks.
Which I forgot to ask @xpraetorious,
What is so great about being (whatever race you claim to be) white?
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“His nose shape and width, his lower facial projection (i.e., he shows a degree of prognathism), the size and shape of his lips, his receding chin and yellowish skin tone are not typical of whites”
Says who? Hitler? White people display a variety of facial features. Plenty of white people have full lips and wide noses. In real life, maybe not on tv where everyone can afford nose jobs. His overall phenotype places him firmly as white. His skin color/texture, his hair, his eyes. I would be hard pressed to believe anyone would think this guy is black if they saw him on the street.
I just asked my white southern husband what race he looked like and he said white.
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D. said:
@D: you’re not a serious commenter either.
Best,
— x
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What I’m saying is if all those boys had black fathers,or even if Michael Jones had a biracial father,this could very well be a hate crime.
I’m looking into it. It is odd that the one doesn’t like white people but has a white girlfriend.Which makes me think he just really doesn’t like white men.And then from the looks of the boys they all appear to be of color but I could be wrong so I’ll look into it
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@ xPraetorius
I deleted your comment to Adonis. It was just insults and name-calling, no critique of what he said.
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solesearch,
“The only time anyone would look at michael jones and think he could be black is after he just helped kill a white guy.”
Amazing isn’t it? The dude has two white parents and a pregnant white girfriend and as, was pointed out above, is a suspect in several robberies. But yet, Truth P is still “looking into it” as to whether Jones is white and others are going over his features like it’s some sort of deep mystery. SMH.
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@ks I haven’t seen Michael Dewayne Jones’ parents in the media at all.I do not know the race of his family.
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@truthp,
Well, the police don’t seem to have the problem that you do in identifying Jones’ race. I guess after you find the pictures you’ll look for DNA testing.
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@ks the boy could be biracial or 3/4 white even if the police are saying he’s white.People use to say that Mariah Carey was white but there was a little more to the story than that. Just because the police say he’s white doesn’t mean he does not have any mixture.
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does not have any *recent* mixture
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Oh, this was my requested post. Didn’t check this site for a while was super busy. Thanks, Abagond. I do think this was worth covering. Sorry I couldn’t provide input earlier.
So my take generally is that if another sovereign country doesn’t make a huge deal about this (it was all over the Aussie press, and they were able not to bury it themselves by taking an “anti-gun” angle, as if change of gun laws would prevent these guys from getting illegal guns) it gets buried in the U.S. because it is politically incorrect. It forces the country to think about racial issues, like why whites will do anything to move away from a black neighborhood, see: http://www.wired.com/design/2013/08/how-segregated-is-your-city-this-eye-opening-map-shows-you/ (<–you'll thank me for this one)
Instead, the media wants you to focus on miley cyrus and her depravity.
So this "white" kid Michael "Dewayne" Jones is actually part black.. shocking I know.. but, he cried about what he did. He was the rat, so he gets off lightly (if the younger non-shooter rats and repents he would get the deal). Instead, the youngest of the bunch was jubilant and thought it was a complete joke when he was arrested (you can find this if you google through a few articles–you can also see pics of him posing with guns). What did people think when they heard the facts of the case, but before the ethnicities of the shooters were released? Many thought this would only be done by black males. Racist!!!! According to Wiki, the town had a population of 22,505 as of the 2000 census, of which just 1.07% were black. So there were a grand total of just over 225 blacks in the entire town, and here's 3 of them that just up and shooting someone because they were bored.
Imagine 2 whites and one mixed guy gun down a black guy from their car.. and one of the white guys has said online he hates 90% of black people. I don't care whether his gf is black, he will get hit with a hate crime… and the media circus will be huge.
Instead, the media calls the crimes "senseless", "random".. nothing to see here people, move along.. how about checking out this article on Miley (with some nice pixes!) and a discussion whether she's encouraging men to be statutory rapists…
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truthp,
Your desperation for Jones to be even a bit black is almost laughable. He’s white. Get over it. Why should I buy your strained interpretation of a mugshot when the authorities, who should know better, have already made an official statement? . Btw, “people” didn’t use to say Mariah Carey was white, not even Mariah Carey. She always was open about her biracial heritage.
biff,
More hilarity trying to avoid the reality of Jones being white. So I guess his middle name being “Dewayne” is a tell for you, huh? It would be amusing to see you expression when you ran into the many white Leroys and Rufuses. In any event, your trying to this all together into the usual bogus racial narratives is a good example the “Broken Records” tag here.
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Stephen Colbert’s middle name is Tyrone. Is he part black too? Or not till he kills someone?
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“Says who? Hitler? White people display a variety of facial features.”
– – –
No. Says me: a person who has actually studied physical anthropology and human variation. And, so what your white husband says he’s white, who is he anyway? Hitler?!
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Dewayne is an Irish name originally which totally explains why it is now seen as a typically black name….black Irish…get it?
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taken from another post for being off topic,
Riverside_Rob wrote@
Adonis and Jefe, violent crime is a terrible thing. I’ve not seen the case you’ve described yet, can you post a link? Killed a child, there is no more dastardly crime than that. I feel same animosity towards a white killer of children as I do a black, (11 year old Arabian Gayles in New Orleans, shot while inside her house) (1 year old Londyn Samuels shot in the arms of her baby sitter).
The killers in all cases deserve to be put down like a bad dog.
In the meantime, it appears that another white man has been beaten (or stomped) to death at the hands of a group of feral black teens.
”A black mob beat Richard Daughenbaugh to death at a popular downtown Des Moines fishing spot one week ago.”
Before this country needs gun control, we need black youth control.
http://whotv.com/2013/09/03/fatal-beating-third-suspect-turns-himself-in/
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You know what’s funny R_Rob,
most of the black teens who commit crimes get arrested and put in jail: immediately… no one has to protest to get them arrested.
the media and you race realist can play this “black teens are scary” game all day but the local media does manage to carry the news that is really happening in this country — news that the national media does not carry because it is not “sensational” enough or it doesn’t fit their “lets make white racists feel better today” game:
From Orlando Sentinel: The difference between Christopher Lane and David Guerrero
“I received emails from people demanding more coverage of Christopher’s death because it was somehow a hate crime. Christopher was white, and the suspects in his death are reportedly black, white and biracial.
As columnist Leonard Pitts put it, these cries came from a group of people “using tragedy to play a cynical game of tit-for-tat: ‘I’ll see your Trayvon Martin and raise you a Christopher Lane.’”
Meanwhile, so little is known about David Guerrero that I can’t even tell you what job he was going to when he was gunned down about 6 a.m. June 26 when many kids his age were sleeping away another summer morning.”
our local news reported David’s death because they actually report the news regardless of what race committed it.
and the father of David’s killer was arrested because he bought the gun that his son used to commit his crimes.
“Dad took 15 year old son to gun shop so he could choose his own weapon ‘a day before boy began string of random shootings resulting in two deaths”
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2399462/Accused-Florida-teen-Konrad-Schafer-used-weapon-dad-bought-day-boy-began-string-random-shootings.html
you white Americans are the problems in this country because you all want black Americans to take responsible for their children but white Americans never want to take responsibility for how “your love” for your gun culture has infested your society, and now you want to use the media to cry a river —
bet you thought all those John Wayne movies were cool, Bonnie and Clyde, Billy the Kid, Clint Eastwood movies…bet you don’t make any noise when the Mafia kills someone because that’s what they’re known for and they’re white…so it’s OK with white America
white America doesn’t get to pull a “mea culpa” because all the garbage your media has been feeding all children (regardless of race) has managed to manifest itself in their behavior.
we can play “tit for tat” all day, Rob … white people/teens commit crime too
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Yikes, too many typos! Apologies:
This: “More hilarity trying to avoid the reality of Jones being white. So I guess his middle name being “Dewayne” is a tell for you, huh? It would be amusing to see you expression when you ran into the many white Leroys and Rufuses. In any event, your trying to this all together into the usual bogus racial narratives is a good example the “Broken Records” tag here.”
Should read: More hilarity ensues from folks trying to avoid the reality of Jones being white. So I guess his middle name being “Dewayne” is a tell for you, huh? It would be amusing to see your expression when you run into the many white Leroys and Rufuses. In any event, your trying to tie this all together into the usual bogus racial narratives is a good example of the “Broken Records” tag here.
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idc my dna is in from domestic relations in pa, i’m takin that 23andme jawn when i can afford it
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truthp,
Your attempt to “blacken” the white suspect is so pathetic, it deserves tears.
I’m honestly sick and tired of people trying to persuade in poor taste that the most violent and criminal race of people on Earth look like me. I shouldn’t have to apologize for what those fools have done or what any other black criminal has done. Some people post links like the ones in R_Rob’s comment as if they expect the entire black race should be held accountable and apologize for the actions of those thugs.
These people want black people to commit acts of violence (especially against whites) so there would be an excuse to be racist against blacks. And no matter what – NO F***ING MATTER WHAT, black criminals are the only kinds of black people these fools want to see in the very end. They don’t care about the massive section of the black community who are nonviolent and noncriminal or those who abhor such behavior. Even though they are out there, and even though they consist most of the black population in the U.S. and in other white dominated nations, the minority of criminals within, the criminal element that is prevalent in all groups of people, ESPECIALLY WHITES, black criminals are all that matters to them.
SMH
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@linda,
That case in Forida is pretty sick. Here is what i found when doing a google search.
http://mynews13.com/content/news/cfnews13/news/article.html/content/news/articles/cfn/2013/7/9/_15_year_old_arreste.html
There was also this story in the news. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/05/25/skylar-neese-murder-rachel-shoaf-plot-confession_n_3336364.html
Or this one from a couple years ago.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/02/08/alyssa-bustamante-verdict_n_1262411.html
You are right. Children today are being filled with a callousness and disregard for life that is appalling. Anyone who claims that this is a product of race is not paying attention.
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Brothawolf,
Indeed. Those kind of folks tend to think about the issue in the following ways:
1. They don’t care about black criminals who attack black victims which, are the majority of such crimes, except in one instance, when they can use the “black on black crime” narrative as a propaganda tool to disparage black people as a group.
2. They don’t care about white criminals who attack white victims which, are the majority of such crimes. Those folks tend to get ignored or downplayed and are allowed to be individualized unlike the black criminals.
3. They only care about certain black criminals who victimize certain white people in certain ways. It’s not like they’re up in arms about black or latin drug dealers who sell pot or coke or whatever else to white drug users.
That’s why they are working so hard to make awful situations like the Chris Lane case a “touchstone” they can use for their usual race baiting babbling but unfortunately for them, people like Tim Wise have shown that situations like Chris Lane’s, as terrible as it was, are statistical absurdities in the overall picture of crime.
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“No. Says me: a person who has actually studied physical anthropology and human variation.”
Physical Anthropology, scientific racism’s favorite discipline.
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linda, ks, Anne,
If there’s one thing I’ve learned while blogging is that telling white people to get their house in order is like (in their eyes) talking back to your parents. It is seen as disrespectful, even racist itself.
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You know, one thing I do wish is that all of the American commenters on this blog would occasionally read news outside their own country. The narrative in Australia was completely different.
Reporting centred:
(a) on the tragic and senseless nature of the murder (this article This article compares the Chris Lane murder to similar instances of teen violence in Australia
(http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/features/boys-gone-bad/story-e6frg8h6-1226763676176#); and
(b) on the utter craziness of your ridiculously lax firearms laws. See for example (http://www.smh.com.au/comment/chris-lane-shooting-why-americans-have-a-blind-spot-when-it-comes-to-guns-20130823-2sfcy.html).
Australia has had strict gun control laws in place since a mass shooting in 1996. All requests for gun licences are reviewed by the police. If you have even a single offence – even a spent conviction from decades ago – you will not be able to get a licence.
You can only have a licence if you demonstrate that you are a farmer and need it to control vermin/pests or if you intend to use it for club shooting. All firearms are stored in locked storage compartments and the police do regular, unnanounced home visits to ensure this happens. Any breach and you lose your licence.
It’s a really strict system but it works. We have not had a single mass shooting since 1996. While there have been some instances of gun violence it’s pretty rare and generally linked to some form of biker activity.
I guess I thought that it was pretty insensitive that the leading talking point in the American media – and here- seems to be the race of the killers and not the poor young guy who lost his life.
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@ all sorry to continue harping on about news from down under but I thought this quote from the Sydney Morning Herald was particularly relevant:
“The nation [the USA] was so affronted when nearly 3000 were killed in the September 11 attacks, yet where’s the national outrage at the annual toll from gun deaths, which at last count was more than 10 times that – 32,000 in 2011.”
You can read the whole article here: (http://www.smh.com.au/comment/chris-lane-shooting-why-americans-have-a-blind-spot-when-it-comes-to-guns-20130823-2sfcy.html#ixzz2luh9a5Bi)
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@Wordynerdygirl….I agree the loss of human life should be the focus but …..do you mean that there aren’t issues related to race in Australia?
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@ Anne certainly not.
Australia absolutely has many problems with race – our society’s treatment of Aboriginal people is particularly dreadful. There’s still an enormous life expectancy gap between Aboriginal and non-Aboriginal people. The services in remote areas dominated by Aboriginal people are woefully inadequate. Despite some really good government initiatives to improve equality, Aboriginal people still face a high level of discrimination in private sector employment.
There’s also a lot of racism directed toward Asian Australians. A recent study found that people with ‘Asian’ sounding names (.e.g Hyung-Joon or Minh) had to submit about 50% more applications before being called for an interview.
In saying that, I would say that race relations here are more like Canada than the US. I was born in Canada, spent time in South Korea, Japan and Singapore (where I went to school for a few years) and I’ve also travelled in the US, so I think I have a fairly good idea about how Australia compares with the rest of the world on this. We’re better than some and worse than others.
My points were:
(a) Americans have a very large blind spot when it comes to gun control
(b) I find it sad that the media in the US have decided to use a young man’s death as fodder for racist commentary
(c) I also found this post and the comments beneath to be fairly callous in the way it discussed the killing. I understand why but I would hate his family to read some of the remarks here.
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@ Anne and I should point out that I found the remarks made by a lot of the white commenters on the Renisha McBride post to be much, much more horrible.
I’m only commenting on this one because the Chris Lane murder was such a prominent story here too, but for very different reasons.
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“they expect the entire black race should be held accountable and apologize for the actions of those thugs. “–Brothawolf
LOL but its more expected for white people to be held accountable for actions from hundreds of years ago lol
You people are funny lol
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What do you mean, “you people?”
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More like white people need to recognize their privilege regarding the past. I know I don’t hold the entire white race responsible for slavery, that’s just plain silly. Yet, I do hold them accountable for their selective memory regarding the past, ill-gotten gains, and their false ideology of white supremacy. And blog spaces like Abagond has made it quite crystal clear for me. (**[b]Happy Turkey day-to Abagond and my fellow Abagondites, :-D[/b]**)
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@wordynerdygirl
Couldn’t agree with you more.
But regarding (c), remember that Xp was still infecting this blog at that time.
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@ jefe true. I have to admit I skimmed a lot of his wall-of-text posts but I read enough to see what a jerk he was.
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@ Wordy
I completely agree about the blind spot America has about guns. The country was built on guns, creating a culture of racialized fear which Whites regard as “normal”, not warped or racist. I pretty much agree with Michael Moore’s “Bowling for Columbine”:
As to Christopher Lane, he was murdered in the immediate aftermath of the Zimmerman verdict, so the American right (pro-gun, anti-black) used him as a propaganda tool for its own ends. This post was in reaction to that.
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@ abagond thanks. I have watched ‘Bowling for Columbine’ and offers a terrifying insight into American gun culture. Obviously nothing’s changed since then – I read somewhere that people were lobbying for teachers to be armed in the classroom after Sandy Hook! Such warped logic.
By the way, the Daily Show did a more humorous take on the gun control issue. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9pOiOhxujsE).
They interview Australia’s former Prime Minister, John Howard. I actually dislike him – he’s very right wing and obviously I vote on the other side of the political spectrum. But he showed surprising political courage on the gun control issue – I don’t think any of your Republicans would do the same.
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*it offers
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