What surprised me most about the George Zimmerman case was how White Americans did not distance themselves from a man who killed an unarmed 17-year-old boy, Trayvon Martin. I expected them to write him off as a vigilante nutcase. Instead they took him into their bosom and excused his actions.
Not all whites, of course, but plenty of them. Enough to make it the most racially charged court case in America since the O.J. Simpson murder trial 18 years ago.
When it came out that Zimmerman was Hispanic I thought, all right, now they will distance themselves from him. Well, they did somewhat, but still they defended him. And wondered why blacks were so upset: “Blacks kill each other all the time! What’s the big deal?”
When it came out that Zimmerman had a police record and Martin did not, I thought, great, now they will wise up. Well, no. Instead they painted Martin as the thug!
The police, the jury and tons of white people seemed to have this need to believe Zimmerman’s story, the words of a killer! The police did not even give him a drug test.
What it most reminds me of is how whites talk about slavery. You would think they would roundly condemn it, full stop. Instead they make excuses and play it down: “Africans sold their own into slavery”, “Arabs traded slaves”, “Slavery is universal”, “Whites did not benefit from slavery”, “My family did not own slaves”, “Get over it!” and so on.
I can kind of make sense of that: whites base part of their self-worth on being white and so feel this (misguided) need to defend their history, crimes and all. But why defend Zimmerman? He is not even white.
I do not fully understand this. Maybe commenters can help me out here. All I can do is think out loud:
- They are not defending Zimmerman so much as the police and the courts. Their defence of Zimmerman was strongest when the police would not arrest him and after the verdict. According to this line of thinking, whites know, deep down, that they are standing on top of a morally questionable justice system and feel the need to defend its mistakes. Just like how they excuse the crimes of their history.
- They do not see Trayvon Martin as fully human. Or blacks in general. So slavery or Martin’s shooting death do not seem that terrible to them. Thus they feel no need to distance themselves from Zimmerman, like they do from those who kill defenceless whites (the Batman shooter, Adam Lanza, the Boston Marathon bombers, etc).
- They see Trayvon Martin through the Black Brute stereotype. Seen that way, the actions of Zimmerman, the police and the jury make sense. It also makes sense of the need to paint Martin as a thug, even – or especially – when he was not. With that, everything else chillingly follows like the gears of a gargoyle clock.
See also:
Lets face it. Whites will never understand blacks as much as blacks will never understand whites. Your article is a double edged sword. I would never condone the taking of a life and most whites would not. But whites have a deep seated belief in the court system. A court system that has worked for them throughout the countries history. Is it perfect? No! So it is very difficult for whites to recognize and admit the problem.
You also talk about the crimes of white history. The majority of white Americans believe in, what I’ll call, a statute of limitation on slavery or that the price of the crime was paid in the blood of the Civil War.
Now, I don’t expect blacks to agree with me. Just as I don’t agree with much of what was said in the article. But at least we can try and find common ground. A young man died and he shouldn’t have. His killer had laws on his side that protected him from prosecution. And that we need to take a serious look at the judicial system to ensure that justice is administer fairly for all Americans.
LikeLike
It would not be to George zimmerman’s daddy interest if they find their georgie guilty. Remember the rest of this planet was to be discovered and civilized by this system that says their right to do what they do and regardless of who gets hurt is of no concern to them. We are the burden and needs to be eliminated. But keep a few to say how they tamed the world. We are the savages, cannibals and barbarians. George Zimmerman save them the ammo by killing a Black youth who could have found a way to bring the conscience of these people to surface and deal with it accordingly. We are hated around the world as taught by the system that rules. We keep on embracing them by burying Our head in their ass to get along. We need to be wipe from this planet because we continue to kiss their asses to get along. I really die on my feet then to let these nasty ass system makers keep on doing what they are doing.
LikeLike
Hotch is the typical white.
Zimmerman was protected by no laws and was guilty. Period. But leave it to some pinkskin to defend him. You people really are incredible. Seriously. And if the Civil War paid for slavery, as you like to say, then when will you whites start suffering for, oh I don’t know…nuking two cities of civilians?
LikeLike
H-m-mh, how did I miss this post? There were no comments on it at all after posting for a whole month? What happened?
But, yeah, I think the need to believe that the police system and the court system, and therefore the AMERICAN system works is so strong, that they cannot see a problem.
However, I still suspect that *some* whites do see a problem. But it is as if even they would see it as “It is a problem, but it is not MY problem.”
I wish that someone prominent powerful person (the president comes to mind) could wake people up – but it seems like the *most* he could do was his 17 mins. speech, carefully worded so as NOT to disturb the sensibilities of white people. I really hope he spends the last 2 years of his term doing the right thing instead of worrying about fearing about upsetting the conscience the white constituency,
Still, after hearing out of the mouths of some people, esp. when they accuse of the president as doing something “black”, he would also worry about people saying something like “NEVER AGAIN” would they elect an African-American president.
I am also concerned about the “Hispanic” strategy of trying to woo white (which might include some mestizos) Hispanics into thinking that they too, can be white, if they follow the “white” rules of conduct. It might be easier to convince them to thuggify blacks.
LikeLike
Great article,but, in a system of white supremacy, this outcome was not surprising.
LikeLike
I think it has to do more with who Zimmer’s parents are than Georgy. His father was a judge, so this whole story reminds me of the rich, spoiled son getting away with murder and his daddy bailing him out in all realms.
LikeLike
“Blacks kill each other all the time! What’s the big deal?”
And whites kill each other all the time! Shooting up day cares, with no mask, in the middle of the day, just because they’re entitled criminals! That’s why as a child I was always scared of wm not BM in Canada, when u was walking around because wm were most of the criminals I saw on TV and they did the worst crimes! Whenever I saw a WM even today that looks angry, I get so scared because I know if something goes down, I’m first! They like to blame all their problems on minorities, they actually think we’re privileged in society! They would give me this evil glare, and I knew to stay away…two tried to run my over, one old guy with no teeth at my school parking lot…I was walking pass the bus entry way to the street and the car zoomed out of its parking place and almost ran me over it was so close to my legs…then I started yelling at me, I thought he was speaking another language but he just didn’t have teeth.
Then there’s a group of shops, that everyone walking uses the road to cross…and this wm saw that I was walking long before he got there, tried to RUN ME OFF THE ROAD! He started driving in zig zags, I had to RUN TO GET OFF THE ROAD OR HE’D HAVE HIT ME!
Adeen also said a wm tried to run her sister over, as did some other black ppl on Negress’ blog…who said they also tried to hit her with their shopping cart…at school I had White Russian girls push me very hard while passing by and Mexican girls refusing to move for me or stepping on my toes, I stepped on their toes and they screamed and never tried that ISH AGAIN!
***Smh, abagond, do u have any similar stories?
They are a very violent race (let’s not exclude the white Latinas from the violence, I mean Zimmerman was Hispanic), so I can now believe that the jury was on Zimmermans side…because there is no such thing as defending yourself against a WP if you’re black, you’re seen as the violent one. They expect you to just walk away when it happens, I know, because this is what white teachers say, but what if u can’t?!
Now I get this whole Zimmerman was the one defending himself thing!
This is why I’ll never date a wm, and I know a few that liked me that I would have been open to back in the day, but now nah-uh!
The way everyone is trying to say this isn’t about race, and how they’re defending Zimmerman showed me how retarded they are! And there’s no reason to try to dispel stereotypes by being a “good girl/boy” cuz they’ll only see you as an exception to the rule and even more stupid “as not really black” even though you know you’re like one of only 4 black ppl in the school so they don’t know any black ppl to begin with…
I’ve seen wm/ww in relationships with blacks that don’t want to see the parents or family or hang around her black friends because they still stereotype blacks but see they’re partner as an exception…and that’s messed up!
LikeLike
^can u go away! Pls tell me the statistics for white on white murder???Since you whites like to use race against everyone but yourselves, even though your created it! If u can’t then you can leave Abagonds blog Immediately!
Abagond you have to be more selective with who u let post, you write some good stuff, which will bring the trolls out like the last supper!
Can u also give me the statistics for white serial killers compared to black? Also the number of their kills? Also can u read a history book and find out how much WP were killing each other before they started leaving Europe to being their muderous spirits everywhere else?
The Asians of the olde days used to describe white Europeans (excluding the southeastern–Italy and Greece) as a barbaric, hot tempered ppl that were always at war…Has it occurred to you that you claim the history of ppl that never saw themselves as one of you? Greece, Italy didn’t consider part of Europe a long time ago, they saw you as inferior…all these dark skinned people you claim as merely tanned whites (lol) did most of the history in the books? What did the western and Northern Europeans create? Or were they still trying to figure out how to survive in the extreme cold?
Egypt is in africa, the ancient Egyptians were black! There was no white people in africa! They look nothing like white people even today! But then again race is a retarded concept with no basis in logic/reality!
Even today, if they go to an airport who will be thought of as the terrorist–the white man from England or the Egyptian man?
No one in Africa is white naturally! Oh wait, I forgot your peeps have taken over South Africa and made it so much better. Right?thats why we still have to send money to South Africans cuz the blacks are still poor even though it’s their native country!
You done see us sending money to poor white South African children do u?
LikeLike
In a way I was surprised and in a way I was not.
LikeLike
“They do not see Trayvon Martin as fully human. Or blacks in general. So slavery or Martin’s shooting death do not seem that terrible to them. Thus they feel no need to distance themselves from Zimmerman, like they do from those who kill defenceless whites (the Batman shooter, Adam Lanza, the Boston Marathon bombers, etc).”
That just about summed it up for me! case closed!
LikeLike
@ The whole “not fully” human thing.
From what I’v surmised over the course of my life, a sizeable portion of non-Blacks do not view Blacks as being human. Period.
LikeLike
“The police, the jury and tons of white people seemed to have this need to believe Zimmerman’s story, the words of a killer!”
Well, there was injury to Trayvon’s fist, injuries to George’s face & head, and witnesses saw Trayvon on top beating him. So the evidence was consistent with his statement to the police.
LikeLike
It was to be expected. Yet, it is no less baffling. In the end whitewashed people see what they want to see while refusing anything else to exist. They see Trayvon Martin the thug, the wannabe gangsta, the troublemaker. They don’t see Trayvon Martin the unarmed child, someone’s child, a teen who did what any other average America teen his age does. The latter Trayvon is invisible to them mostly on purpose.
Whites distance themselves from white murderers who kill mostly other whites in some random freak-out or terrorist action. It’s like Abagond wrote, most whites see themselves as basically good people. If white people kill other white people, then that whole image is shattered somewhat. They can’t understand that whites commit crimes against other whites. (Good) white people harming other (good) white people? To them it’s almost hard to comprehend. Yet, it happens ALL THE TIME, way more than they would want to believe.
So, Zimmerman kills a black teenager. To them he’s a hero. They see a thug that wanted to start trouble, and they see a man (of color) as their knight, an honorary white in a sense.
LikeLike
“The police, the jury and tons of white people seemed to have this need to believe Zimmerman’s story, the words of a killer!”
And the word of the only eyewitness. Remember? The one saw Martin pounding Zimmerman’s head on the pavement? Get the basic facts of the case correct.
LikeLike
Read Somerby below. You and the commenters are just writing your own stories at this point.
http://dailyhowler.blogspot.com/2013/08/dubliners-too-liberals-this-time.html
LikeLike
[…] What surprised me most about the George Zimmerman case was how White Americans did not distance themselves from a man who killed an unarmed 17-year-old boy, Trayvon Martin. I expected them to write… […]
LikeLike
Daddy’s connections or not, I seriously doubt he would have gotten just this slap on the wrist if the teen he followed, accosted and shot in the chest was blonde teen boy in a hoodie. It all comes down the the fuqqed up way the lives of African descended people are valued.
White people, don’t like being reminded of their whiteness,they don’t mind the perks, just so long as nobody talks about it. This is why they want black people to shut up, even better, just disappear. That way they don’t have to think about what kind of people they come from, what “white” really means, how did racial categorizing came about and how it conveniently worked in their favor. They don’t want to think about the twisted people that created the roots of their justice system and how that twisted crap extends into other institutions both small and large. They want to keep telling themselves that black people are just complaining about getting some feelings hurt ever so often. They want to downplay how deep inequality runs.
This isn’t about that paranoid coward Zimmerman. This is just them showing how empty they are.
LikeLike
“Dr. Grzlickson,
And the word of the only eyewitness. Remember? The one saw Martin pounding Zimmerman’s head on the pavement? Get the basic facts of the case correct.”
Linda says,
Get your “facts” right…
NO ONE saw Zimmerman’s head getting “slammed” into the sidewalk… No One… he could of have fallen and tripped over his own 2 feet and hit his head as far as anyone knows because NO ONE saw him getting his head knocked into the sidewalk.
The only witness who saw anything, saw Trayvon sitting on top of Zimmerman and this witness stated in court: that he did not Actually see Trayvon “hitting” George Zimmerman, he saw his arms moving
that has been the problem with this case along — NO ONE saw the actual fight…
so yes, you and every other white person supporting Zimmerman are just taking the Word of a killer
LikeLike
oooh boy, this thread is so delicious. ^_^
LikeLike
Dr. Grzlickson
I read the article you posted – it wasn’t what I expected, thanks!
Da Jokah – you’ve said there were injuries to Trayvon’s fists. I haven’t seen that anywhere else – do you have an article link or picture, that would be helpful.
Welcome aboard, we’re always on the look out for more civil, well reasoned discourse.
LikeLike
When I saw the picture on this post I thought Agabond changed it to a humor blog. Anyway, there is a saying that a dog can’t see his own tail. I believe it is true.
LikeLike
hmm where to begin. I think whites defended zimmerman because of the media attention and wanted to root against what we wanted. It was their way at getting back at the so called race baiters and to let us know where they stand. They say oh zimmerman is hispanic he’s not white so this isn’t a black and white issue. So it is their way of hiding behind someone they say is not white and agreeing with what he did, while distancing themselves and saying he is not one of us so don’t be mad at us. But see i’m mad at the just his system more than anything, zimmerman imo is a drop of water in a lake full of injustice. This was their way of saying see black ppl u are not free to do as u please u are not equal. at first we were mostly seeing cops and law enforcement killing our ppl now its a civilian doing it which reminds me of the jim crow era where it was civilians and cops killing blacks. The reaction from whites was just like the reaction from jim crow era where they would agree with the killer and give him a slap on the wrist as they put it because these are good men and why should they have to pay for the life of a black person that was beneath them anyway and mess up that precious white life that would become somebody. They viewed Trayvon as a nobody ,a thug, up to no good, so they figure why should zimmerman have to pay for taking that life since they view that life as not going to amount to anything anyway, why waste two lives.
Whites in this country also believe in the just his system more than anybody because it was built by them for them. It is the reason they say the man in blue is a friend to you. The man in blue is no friend of mine, but he is yours, but we all pay taxes for ur friend to harass us.
LikeLike
“When it came out that Zimmerman was Hispanic I thought, all right, now they will distance themselves from him. Well, they did somewhat, but still they defended him. And wondered why blacks were so upset: “Blacks kill each other all the time! What’s the big deal?”
They love to point out he is hispanic to try to distance themselves, but they agree with him ,contradiction. They point out chicago and blacks kill each other as a way to divert attention from zimmerman, and say well if they kill each other why should u be upset at this non black killing a black person. Take notes ppl they start with well we should be allowed to say the n word to we should be able to kill black ppl yall do it. They say equality that is code for we want to do what blacks can do and say, but we don’t want blacks to get what we have, so its a take take and no give. It is how during slavery and segregation they would come into our neighborhoods or our cabins and eat our food, rape ppl, and destroy stuff. They want to enjoy theirs and everybody elses fruits of their labor but don’t want ppl to enjoy theirs or even their own fruits of their labor. Hence why slavery was around they wanted blacks to build this country but didn’t want to give us anything in return.
“When it came out that Zimmerman had a police record and Martin did not, I thought, great, now they will wise up. Well, no. Instead they painted Martin as the thug!”
They see zimmerman as fixable but Trayvon they see as a lost cause, even though zimmerman is older and is more set in his ways than a younger Trayvon who could have grown into a great man.
“So slavery or Martin’s shooting death do not seem that terrible to them. Thus they feel no need to distance themselves from Zimmerman, like they do from those who kill defenceless whites (the Batman shooter, Adam Lanza, the Boston Marathon bombers, etc).”
They don’t feel a need to distance themselves from zimmerman because they feel like well we didn’t do anything and besides he hispanic. The whites who kill other whites they say they are mentally ill and nutcases because surely any sane white person would know not to wast precious limited white life. No go after the negroes if u must kill somebody. White life is worth more, that has always been the message, from hurricane katrina to now. It is why they put planned parenthood in black neighborhoods, and give arabs loans to open their nasty businesses in our neighborhoods, and have police patrolling white neighborhoods.
“They are not defending Zimmerman so much as the police and the courts. Their defence of Zimmerman was strongest when the police would not arrest him and after the verdict.”
They defend the just his system because it is part of white privilege and white supremacy system. By them going against it is going against their better interests. Why would they go against something that gives them less time for doing heroin compared to crack, is trying to legalize their marijuana and so on. that would be biting the hand that feeds them.
LikeLike
Mstoogood, in your opinion, why do whites have such a low opinion of blacks? Is it hate based on fear? Is it whites only that have such animosity towards blacks or do other ethnic groups (in this country) behave similarly? Are there any groups, again in your opinion, that blacks despise as much as whites?
LikeLike
(in this country) I assumed U.S, my bad.
LikeLike
Riverside_Rob
“you’ve said there were injuries to Trayvon’s fists. I haven’t seen that anywhere else – do you have an article link or picture, that would be helpful.”
The autopsy report.lists an old scar to his right fist on page 2 and fresh abrasion to his right fist on page 3. The injury locations are marked on the body diagram on page 7.
http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnn/2012/images/05/17/trayvon.martin.autopsy.pdf#page=7
LikeLike
Riverside_Rob
“you’ve said there were injuries to Trayvon’s fists. I haven’t seen that anywhere else – do you have an article link or picture, that would be helpful.”
The autopsy report.lists an old scar to his right fist on page 2 and fresh abrasion to his LEFT fist on page 3. The injury locations are marked on the body diagram on page 7.
http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnn/2012/images/05/17/trayvon.martin.autopsy.pdf#page=7
LikeLike
@ mstoogood4yall
As one white commenter said on another blog….”Of course he is not white…if he was then he would not have gotten caught.”
LikeLike
@ peanut
Maybe they will maybe not i won’t hold my breath. Its sad that ppl in other countries see it and are like wtf is wrong with americas justice system. I don;t worry about if they feel bad for what they have done or continue to do they are like sharks. Even cases that happened during jim crow they don’t care and feel nothing about it, if they did they would’ve tried to find the truth, and clear more ppl’s names who were wrongly killed like George Stinney. Even then what good would it do, what do we want an apology? i say keep ur dam apologies, that don’t fix a dam thing, give the descendants money for killing their loved ones not some weak ass apology worth nothing.
LikeLike
@ Linda
Well you know how it goes with them “My opinion are facts of the case and yours are just made up stories.” LOL.
Funny part is I don’t really think many have disputed they were fighting. Yet out of the wood works they bring in articles etc. to try and reiterate. On this thread I think I will laugh at the desperate attempts.
Kind of like the guy that keeps saying “witnesses” when it was only one witness.
LikeLike
Thanks Jokah,
Peanut
We’re still wondering how this could have happened.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/01/07/christopher-newsom-channon-christian_n_2426358.html
LikeLike
@ mstoogood4yall
I think the attempts to justify it is a form of guilty (I could be wrong). It is better to provide a reason or justification on why it happened than for them to own up to their prejudice mindset
LikeLike
@ Riverside_Rob
Then go to the jail house where the killers are housed and ask them.
LikeLike
Gotta love how quickly the personal insults come out…. Free speech….love it or leave it. I particularly love the pink-skin comment…. Right out of Star Trek….lol… Seems to me that people are getting their opinions out there pretty well in this “white mans repressive society we live in”.
LikeLike
“Sharina,
Funny part is I don’t really think many have disputed they were fighting.”
Linda says,
Since George put all this in motion, my belief is Trayvon had every right to “stand his ground” and try to defend himself… George losing a fight that he very well may have started, doesn’t mean he has Any rights to “stand his ground”
and being that Not One Human Being Alive (besides George) saw how the fight began or even saw George getting his head “slammed” in the ground, can vouch for George words that Trayvon hit him first…. he injuries don’t mean sh’t, he did not prove that Trayvon was the aggressor — he just proved that he is a sorry POS that can’t fight — but he knows how to start trouble quite well.
I have yet to hear about any killers who have said, ” yeah, I started it all and I’m guilty” …. every one of them has an excuse for “why” they committed the act and they all portray themselves as the “victim” like George.
Look at that POS Ariel Castro, who said in Court that he “didn’t do anything wrong and that the girls asked him for sex — and that there was piece and harmony in the house” —
So basically, if he wasn’t caught red-handed, the way white people think, then they would believe Ariel Castro and call the girls “liars”
LikeLike
Weren’t 2 of the girls white? They would have believed them. Castro needs to be put down like that animal he is. No passion, just the needle – anyone disagree?
LikeLike
I just wanted to take the time to make everyone aware that there is an individual that is taking your comments and posting them on their blog and debating them in their blog post.
I call this person brothawolf’s stalker but you may call them what you like. LOL
LikeLike
@mstoogood4yall
Of course I cannot speak for all ppl in all other countries, but the weird thing that may strike some ppl as “wrong” about America in the first place is letting ordinary citizens walk the streets carrying guns. It is that policy that leads to incidents like what happened (together with a screwed up police and judicial system). But it is the gun situation that might seem strange to ppl outside the USA. They might see Sandy Hook and Trayvon Martin as part of a similar problem.
Of course, to many Americans, it is nothing but.
LikeLike
It’s a dangerous world jefe, best not to be unprotected.
http://www.americanrifleman.org/blogs/armed-citizen-july-23-2013
LikeLike
Sharina,
I think I have some good ideas on who you’re talking about.
LikeLike
Sharina – where’s the debate at – maybe we can go over and crash their party.
LikeLike
Zimmerman legally classified himself as being white and he had a white supremacy ideology. That is the reason why the racist segment of the dominant society identified with and supported Zimmerman.
LikeLike
@ Sharina
wow I wonder who is taking ppls comments, brothawolf is it some crazy ex of yours or a troll that got mad because u banned them rofl. Dang if someone gonna take my comments at least tell me about it, I can’t defend myself if they talking bout me or misquoting me. smh.
LikeLike
@ peanut
Oh lawwd why he gotta be in the state I live. *goes off to tell the others, the bstrd is coming hide ur kids, hide ur husband, hide ur hoodies, and more importantly hide ur skittles. Oh creator protect me ancestors I call on thee protect me from all danger. *locks door arms alarm system* *wishes for gun* . Like a good neighbor state farm is there ……..with a fine armed man that will protect me.
LikeLike
Well written post. I agree. Most White Americans are racist so of course they would side with Zimmerman because they see Trayvon as a thug not a human with feelings and second of all, they don’t see their son in Trayvon. Trayvon was just another n word to them.
And this case hit home for me because I have a 14 year old brother who I fear for his safety and doesn’t realize how racist White AmeriKKKlan truly is and I live in Florida too. I do plan on leaving Florida after I graduate in the spring.
LikeLike
“Oh lawwd why he gotta be in the state I live. *goes off to tell the others, the bstrd is coming hide ur kids, hide ur husband, hide ur hoodies, and more importantly hide ur skittles.”
– – –
Hey, you forgot one: *flush ur toilets*
LikeLike
@ Abagond
The answer is simple really. Many whites side with Zimmerman because Blacks side against him.
In their eyes Blacks are always wrong in every way so the opposite position must be the right one. The thought of agreeing with us on anything can’t compute for them because that would make us similar somehow so they always pivot off of any position we take and instinctively believe the opposite.
LikeLike
“They do not see Trayvon Martin as fully human. Or blacks in general. So slavery or Martin’s shooting death do not seem that terrible to them. Thus they feel no need to distance themselves from Zimmerman, like they do from those who kill defenceless whites (the Batman shooter, Adam Lanza, the Boston Marathon bombers, etc).”
OK, Zimmy might have been racist, though as you noted he’s Hispanic through any normal definition of that term and probably has at least some African ancestery on his mom’s side. Let’s assume he was racist and wanted to show this “kid” his place. Weird how he only pulled the gun after a hand-to-hand confrontation had begun (regardless of who you think initiated the fistfight) if his intention was just to kill this kid all along, since there’s at least some danger he won’t be able to use the gun or it will be used against him.
In any event, even putting the worst face on this and Zimmy, I think most educated people (if you took away the racial element) wouldn’t see any kind of parallels with the above-referenced crazies who cold-bloodedly plotted to mass-murder unarmed women and children. If this is what Zim wanted, he should have been just running drive bys in the hood. No need to dial 911. Seriously, maybe you think this is some clever analogy here, but logic fail. Otherwise, mostly at least well written.
LikeLike
Abagond, I have come to the conclusion that you are not just any racist. You are a super racist. You could care less if 1,000,000 white children died suddenly tomorrow. Bottom line is in all this “coverage” on this subject you have conveniently left out “retaliatory” attacks in the name on Trayvon on totally random innocent people. Some of whom were beat so bad, they died of injuries in the hospital. I’m sick to my stomach. You have so many holes in your arguments lately that swiss cheese is jealous.
LikeLike
To r_sturgis:
Who said:
Zimmerman legally classified himself as being white..
The only documents or evidence I saw (pre-shooting..) wherein Zimmerman defined his ethnicity/race indicated that he defined himself as Hispanic.
“On voter registration forms, George Zimmerman identified himself as Hispanic, as did his mother. His father, Robert, listed himself as white on voter registration forms. Zimmerman’s mother, Gladys, is originally from Peru.”
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/03/29/trayvon-martin-case-georg_n_1387711.html
Former neighbors of the family in Virginia described the mother and the children as minorities. Although his older brother Robert could “pass” George Zimmerman clearly looks Mestizo.
LikeLike
*Sigh* Here we go again with the racist, oblivious white trolls and their attempts to take over another Black blog. I mean damn, I read BLACK BLOGS to get away from the whitewashed propaganda shoveled down our throats, ad nauseum. Do you see any of us flooding stormfront or faux news site and hijacking your blog posts?
LikeLike
And killerman is WHITE, his moms is a white hispanic and his pops is a jew. He sure don’t look “colored” to me.
LikeLike
@Uncle Milton
I am going to respectfully disagree. On those forms you are asked if you are white/black of hispanic ethnicity. Has been that way for a long time. People just now want to act like it is foreign and racist because of this case. In fact I just filled out a form Monday asking me those same question.
LikeLike
@ Dave
By all means post articles on those people. Rally with those people. Tell me if those people got justice. You whine and complain to abagond to care about things you don’t seem to care enough to do anything about.
If you care about it them speak up to others around you and do something.
LikeLike
But I am guessing the perps are in jail so it is the care aspect.
LikeLike
Whites really began to take Zimmerman’s side after Obama said his son would look like Trayvon. The right wing of the media were ignoring the case until that point. Fox News had one story about the case. Hating Travyon and loving George is about Obama.
LikeLike
I’ve been pondering the same thing. People I thought I knew well have posted the ugliest stuff imaginable on social media, etc. Numbers 2 and 3 are my only conclusion.
LikeLike
How many in this room can seriously say they have gotten in a fight and let the individual beat their azz with getting in not one hit? To weak to fight back but strong enough to A) move away from the concrete (according to some reports) and B) reach for his gun.
I personally think he made the gun his only option.
As to biff…I speculated this before but I don’t think Zimmerman intended to kill Martin but rather detain him so he can be hailed as some type of hero, but that did not go as well as he thought it would.
LikeLike
mstoogood4yall
“*goes off to tell the others, the bstrd is coming hide ur kids, hide ur husband, hide ur hoodies, and more importantly hide ur skittles.”
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hMtZfW2z9dw)
LikeLike
@ Blanc2
I know what you mean and I did a thorough sweep of facebook because of it.
@ Da Jokah
I have to admit that video was actually funny.
LikeLike
To Uncle Milton
Hispanics can be black white or a mixture.. one can be Hispanic and classify themselves as being white, so your claim doesn’t disprove that Zimmerman saw himself as being white. Furthermore Zimmerman made some disparaging remarks about Mexicans.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/05/02/zimmerman-myspace-page_n_1471818.html
My question to you is why is the racist segment of the dominant society supporting Zimmerman if he is Hispanic? Any other time… It’s to hell with Mexicans.. it’s deport the Hispanics.. Self deportation.. there’re taking all of our jobs… We’re losing our country.. But Zimmerman is the exception?
LikeLike
Yes, very surprising that so many European Americans were willing to defend a racist killer. It speaks to their moral judgment and just highlights their inherent ill will towards African Americans.
@lifelearner
Right, and anyone who doubts the power of a sitting or retired judge should just look at the other times Georgie’s daddy helped him in the past.
LikeLike
“Stacks,
And killerman is WHITE, his moms is a white hispanic and his pops is a jew. He sure don’t look “colored” to me.”
Linda says,
Not a Zimmerman defender but let’s keep it real — his mother is Not a white Hispanic, she is as Mestizo as they come– she is African, Spanish, and Native America — No one can look at her and say “white”, not even in S. America.
1st reason the white Zimmerman defenders were on his side: because once they saw his picture, they were not happy that the media labeled him “white” — they thought, “wow, we are being blamed once again and this time, it wasn’t even us” — so out of sheer Contrariness, they defended Zimmerman because they felt that the media and black people were pulling, in their favorite words, “the race card”
2nd main reason, because black people were upset about this issue, white racists Naturally defended Zimmerman because they are Always on the opposite side of an issue that black people care about… they could care less about the rightness or wrongness of the situation… Whatever black people Want, then they are Against it
LikeLike
That was the most shocking thing to me too abagond. It’s one thing for a single racist nutcase to shoot an unarmed teenager. It’s quite another for so many people to laud him as a hero just because the victim was black. This society is amoral.
The thing that keeps me calm is the firm knowledge that they’ll pay for their crimes. The Universe is soon going to ask back from them the blood of everyone slaughtered in their name and is going to pour out on their heads all the hatred they have for everyone else. Horrible things are coming. Black people should forget about integration. Judgement is here! Mentally separate yourselves and live like a foreigner in the land. That’s how you’ve been treated anyway.
Rev 18
“Come out of her, my people so that you will not share in her sins, so that you will not receive any of her plagues; for her sins are piled up to heaven and God has remembered her crimes. Give back to her as she has given; pay her back double for what she has done. Pour her a double portion from her own cup. Give her as much torment and grief as the glory and luxury she gave herself”
This is referring specifically to the coming utter destruction of the world’s greedy economic system (the whore of Babylon) and it will hit America, the seat of her empire, hardest, “In her was found the blood of prophets and of God’s holy people, of all who have been slaughtered on the earth” Maybe you don’t believe but probably when things start to go south your memory will be aroused.
LikeLike
Stacks, any evidence for your statement about Jewish ancestry?
LikeLike
The coroner’s report in the link above lists death by homicide and that the deceased was shot and fell to the ground.
There is no proof that Trayvon Martin started the confrontation.
One reason Trayvon might not have gone home could be that he lost the keys and couldn’t get in so maybe he was hiding until Zimmerman left the area.
The superficial wounds on Zimmermans head would be from contact with gravel on the side walk after he tackled and wrestled with Trayvon Martin. Smashing a head on a sidewalk would have much more serious injuries.
Zimmerman’s bloody nose was probably caused by recoil from the Kel tec.
It is highly unlikely that Zimmerman could have shot that gun with only one hand, and nearly impossible for him to reach behind himself while pinned to the ground to access the gun which was in the back of his body.
His story has never been credible.
The defense probably used the Black Brute/Magical Negro strategy by calling Wendy Dorival, who thought George wanted to do a good job, and Captain Alexis Carter, who brought smiles and laughter to George Zimmerman and the court room. So the defense brought in two Black witnesses who gave Zimmerman the friendly nod that caused the jury to think that George Zimmerman’s “heart was in the right place”. The contrast of these two Black witnesses against Rachel Jeantel helpled to paint the picture that George was just trying to keep the neighhborhood safe and didn’t have to wait until he was seriously injured.
This was a case that never seemed to focus on credible evidence, such as ballistics, the possibilities ofGZ using one hand to shoot, recoil of the gun, the severity of GZ injuries, the coronor’s report, instead, this case was decided based on Hollywood and Media stereotypes instead of truth.
I am surprised that the prosecution failed to prove the case, because a good lawyer could have used the facts to proof that GZ’s version was not credible and there could have been more strategy to use scientific facts to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that GZ was negligent and that that negligence caused the death of an innocent 17 year old teenager.
I was hoping that the judge would have set aside the verdict, but then, I saw that she seemed to look happy too. Very sad moment. When I hear the 911 calls of the older woman crying, and look at George Zimmerman smiling,in the courtroom, I feel sick to my stomach. I can not understand how a man who is using prescription drugs, was ordered to enter alcohol treatment for shoving a policeman, can possibly be eligible to have a gun permit.
LikeLike
To r_strugis:
Hispanics can be black white or a mixture.. one can be Hispanic and classify themselves as being white,
Yes I know.. but drop him in East LA and everyone who comes up to him will probably speak to him in Spanish unless they only know English.
so your claim doesn’t disprove that Zimmerman saw himself as being white.
“Zimmerman legally classified himself as being white and he had a white supremacy ideology”
Plenty of evidence to suggest he did not see himself as a White Supremacist… nasty types at places like Stormfront referred to him as “Mud”. That does mean that his actions on the night of the shooting did not have a racial bias but I really doubt a white supremacist is going to protest the beating of a black man by a white security guard:
“George Zimmerman accused the Sanford police department of corruption more than a year before he shot Trayvon Martin, saying at a public forum the agency covered up the beating of a black homeless man by the son of a white officer.”
http://www.wjla.com/articles/2012/05/zimmerman-publicly-accused-sanford-police-of-corruption-in-2011-76322.html#ixzz2aqW7ZXSO
“Furthermore Zimmerman made some disparaging remarks about Mexicans…”
It’s fairly common among Latinos to make digs at Latinos from other countries.
Simply put he had an option to mark white on his voter registration form (for which there would be no AA or other benefit..) yet he choose Hispanic. His neighbors in Virginia (white bread folks..) saw him as a minority. Friends and family also claimed (after the shooting so I understand potentially biased..) that he saw himself as Hispanic.
LikeLike
“””The officers whom Zimmerman targeted for accountability in the Sherman Ware incident were all cleared by the Seminole County Sheriff’s investigation, despite Zimmerman’s repeated accusations that police gave kid-glove treatment to a white officer’s son who beat a defenseless, homeless black man.
But 14 months later, at least two of the same officers investigated the shooting death of Trayvon Martin — and cleared Zimmerman — even though his voice was the loudest calling for their punishment in the Ware case.”””
Read more: http://dailycaller.com/2012/04/04/zimmerman-demanded-discipline-in-2010-race-related-beating-for-officers-who-investigated-martin-shooting/#ixzz2aqqqeawN
George Zimmerman had a change of heart,
“””On September 18, 2011, Zimmerman wrote an e-mail to the then-chief of Sanford’s police, saying that he had “a completely new perspective” after working closely with the department’s community volunteer coordinator.”””
http://www.cnn.com/2012/05/23/justice/florida-teen-shooting
LikeLike
“I was hoping that the judge would have set aside the verdict, but then, I saw that she seemed to look happy too.”
– – –
Yes. I too noticed how inappropriately happy this JUDGE appeared to be. There was absolutely no sense of neutrality coming from her, as she was smiling quite merrily after the “not guilty” verdict was given; and her demeanor seemed more appropriate to pleasant dinner conversation with girlfriends than to the trial of a vigilante who admittedly shot an unarmed boy in the heart.
LikeLike
Origin said
The thing that keeps me calm is the firm knowledge that they’ll pay for their crimes. The Universe is soon going to ask back from them the blood of everyone slaughtered in their name and is going to pour out on their heads all the hatred they have for everyone else. Horrible things are coming. Black people should forget about integration. Judgement is here! Mentally separate yourselves and live like a foreigner in the land. That’s how you’ve been treated anyway.
ORIGIN – I agree completely – bad things are heading our way.
LikeLike
Vanishing point said
One reason Trayvon might not have gone home could be that he lost the keys and couldn’t get in so maybe he was hiding until Zimmerman left the area.
The superficial wounds on Zimmermans head would be from contact with gravel on the side walk after he tackled and wrestled with Trayvon Martin. Smashing a head on a sidewalk would have much more serious injuries.
Zimmerman’s bloody nose was probably caused by recoil from the Kel tec.
It is highly unlikely that Zimmerman could have shot that gun with only one hand, and nearly impossible for him to reach behind himself while pinned to the ground to access the gun which was in the back of his body.
His story has never been credible.
VP – you’re making up stories about lost keys to support what you WANT the story to be. You are also clueless regarding weapons function, retention and employment. Once again for the sake of all – “you can have your own opinion, but you can’t have your own facts”
LikeLike
Fiamma –
I had just the opposite reaction to the judge. I felt she had stacked the deck against Zimmerman and tried at every opportunity to screw up the defense. When the verdict was read, she was doing her best not scream because her side lost. I hope she is removed from the bench for her behavior during the trial.
LikeLike
I am not making up stories about lost keys, I said it was possible and seems more plausible to me than the defendants story. Looking at the video tape at the convenience store, Trayvon is looking for something on the floor, and it would make sense to me that he lost the key and couldn’t get back in.
That makes a lot more sense to me than proposing that a child with no violent history would randomly attack rather than go home.
Your opinion that my knowledge of weapons is”clueless” is not based on fact.
LikeLike
Riverside, the judge was clearly smiling. No doubt about it. Just take a moment and look at the video. Then look at George Zimmerman, smiling and laughing during Captain Carter’s testimony. A trial involving death is not funny or laughable even if you hold a different opinion.
LikeLike
In my family, there was a lot of #1 (defending the justice system). Abagond, have you ever done a post on different minority groups being pitted against each other?
LikeLike
sign this black people, it takes 2 minutes:
https://www.change.org/petitions/change-for-trayvon-stand-your-ground-laws-must-be-reviewed#share
LikeLike
@Sondis: Done and shared on FB!
LikeLike
Stacks:
awesome! Thanks brotha, high five—> \o
LikeLike
It was interesting how the media portrayal of Zimmerman and Trayvon changed once it came out that Zimmerman was actually a hispanic guy.
When they thought he was white, Trayvon pictures were all back when he was 12 yrs old and all you heard was basically 300 pound guy murders black boy for walking home.
Once it turns out he is hispanic it turns out Trayvon was 17 yrs old, not a boy, and if I referred to him as such, I would probably be called a racist.
That Zimmerman only shot Trayvon after a conflict had started between the two, he didn’t just randomly walk up and shoot him as many seemed to be claiming.
I also found it interesting just how biased so many AA seemed to be, its a boy, not a teenager, they downplay or don’t mention the fight, the pictures were from half a decade ago etc…..
They make mentions of white people looking at Zimmerman as a “hero” when almost no white people even most of his defenders say nothing even remotely close to that.
They claim he is white, around that time they also claim a native american as white, and even when it turns out zimmerman isn’t white they still claim him as white,
They are incapable of acknowledging the “blue shield”.
How badly do man African-Americans actually want a white person to do something like this? How much of a matry syndrome do some of these people have?
As Riverside_Rob put it, they don’t just down play facts, they completely make up their own stories.
I mean how far do they have to go to try and convince themselves of this, why isn’t just the facts as they happened good enough for them?
I mean at absolutely best, Zimmerman racially profiled the guy, caused a scenario to happen that he shouldn’t have and shot/murdered a guy in a fight.
He probably should have got manslaught but thanks to blue shield/racism he didn’t.
LikeLike
Zimmerman’s defense team made up a story about Trayvon Martin, and then later apologized for their mistake, http://www.gzlegalcase.com/index.php/press-releases/184-correction-and-apology-regarding-misstated-nature-of-trayvon-martin-video
But it is true, you can’t unring a bell, and many people probably believe that story, it’s strategy to win, not bring in truth.
LikeLike
“V-4,
I mean at absolutely best, Zimmerman racially profiled the guy, caused a scenario to happen that he shouldn’t have and shot/murdered a guy in a fight.”
Linda says,
your phraseology is “interesting” — by calling Trayvon a “guy”, you get around calling him a “boy” because in this particular case, most white Z defenders don’t want to call a 17 year old a “child” because as an adolescent who was physically taller than the mature Adult, most people believe he had the ability to hurt the adult.
So, I ask you this: if 17 year olds are such “adults”, if they haven’t been granted “emancipation” by a court of law:
1. can they ” finance” property by themselves? can they open a bank account?
2. can they give consent for their own medical treatment?
3. if a 17 year old, hits your car and the teen does not have insurance — can you sue the 17 year old for damages without dragging his parents to court?
LikeLike
I forgot to ask, V-4:
who do you believe has the better ability to foresee the outcome of a situation based on age and experience? a 17 year old teenager or a 28- year old adult
who do you believe has the better ability to assess a situation and use prudent judgment to solve the problem? a 17 year old teenager or a 28- year old adult
especially problems where they can assess if the answers have justifications based on the tenants of the law?
True story that happened in my local area:
if an adult and 3 teens went into the woods, and 1 teen and the adult were smoking cigarettes and all the teens were drinking alcohol with the adult —
and 1 of the cigarettes caused a fire in the woods that burnt down a quarter of the woodlands, who do you think got fined and also got jail time?
I’ll give you the answer to this one: the parents of the 3 boys got fined thousands (6-digit thousands) a piece, as restitution for the fire, and the adult got fined and sentenced for allowing the kids to drink alcohol, letting them smoke, and not following/ensuring safety precautions —
I don’t remember what they called it, something like “subversion of a minor” — I felt bad for the parents_ they sure didn’t see that one coming.
LikeLike
@ V-4
As if African Americans were the only ones making up their own stories. I saw plenty of Zimmerman supports doing just that and having the nerve to claim it as a fact whereas I saw Martin supporters state their scenerios as what they believe (not claiming it as a fact).
Now in regards to the hero rhetoric. ..go check the web. I dont know how many comments I have read stating “he did us a favor.” “He is a good man that cared enough to risk his life to protect the neighborhood from a thug.”
Believe what you want but what you believe is not a fact.
LikeLike
Also to v-4 and others the claiming he is white is just a matter of distortion. One I see on both sides of the fence. One side wants to act as if racial reporting methods Don’t classify him in those terms and the other side exploiting it. While he maybe hispanic….on paper work he can darn well be classified as white hispanic or black hispanic.
LikeLike
@ Linda
Thank you for pointing that out. This has been my biggest issue with this case. Zimmerman is an adult and as an adult should be responsible enough to not take actions to put a minor in danger.
LikeLike
@Sondis
Signed!
LikeLike
Sharina! that’s my girl! I’m glad black people are stepping up to make their voices, heard. ^_^
LikeLike
Sharina, that’s my issue as well…
since when did it become acceptable in society for the Adult to be the impulsive, childish, short-sighted individual, that can’t logically assess a situation
and the child/adolescent is supposed to be the logical, prudent “mature” individual, who is responsible and uses “reasonable” judgment before he/she acts.
but seeing as to how TV, movies, and behavior in the real world seems to “excuse” Adults who act like children — I guess I shouldn’t be surprised with American society.
LikeLike
Linda:
I would say, it has more to do with the fact that, black teens/children are NOT allowed to be, children,immature or victims.
This is why you see, 100% of black, underage children, get charged as an adult, while white children, don’t.
White children constantly, get a pass when they misbehave or get caught with drugs or just being mischievous. “They’re just kids, they don’t know any better.”
You saw this when that white teenage brat, McKayla Maroney put a scowl on her face, during the gymnastic Olympics after winning the silver gold!
Now, that being said, if gabby Douglass, a young black girl had done that, she would have been crucified by the white media and her career would have been over, before it even began!
Not McKayla Maroney, she got even more famous over it! even got to take a picture with President Obama, making the very face she did!!!
You see how white people, turn a negative into a positive, when it comes to one of their own?
Obama would have distanced himself from Gabby, being white people would have saw him, sympathizing with her, after she has done something so despicable, because she is a black girl.
The strange thing was, at first, white people condemned her for the action but when white people saw how much negative attention, a WHITE girl was getting in the media over the situation, they began to get defensive as it seems to reflect on their, precious white image as white people, so they did an about face and made every excuse for her in the book!
There would have been no excuse, good enough, if Gabby Douglas would have done what McKayla Maroney did.
LikeLike
Sondis, you’re absolutely right…
the media managed to drag Gabby Douglas through mud anyway…
LikeLike
@Linda
Linda if I as an adult white male where to have a conversation with a black person that was trayvon’s age and I were to refer to him as a “boy” how would that be looked at as anything but racist?
Trayvon wasn’t an adult but he wasn’t a “boy” or a “child”, he was a teenager. There is a significant difference.
To refer to him as a “boy” is about close to claiming those pictures of him at 12 were the actual age he was at the time.
@Sharina
What exactly about what I stated is wrong?
I said “most” whites were not referring to him as a hero, even most of his supporters didn’t. The fact that a few may have, whether random commenters on the net or white hate sites doesn’t challenge that statement. That being said I suppose I can’t support that, since much like you I can only go by my personal experiences and what I’ve seen in regards to that.
I said Trayvon wasn’t a “child” or a boy, that doesn’t mean he wasn’t a teenager or still a minor in the eyes of the law, in the US at least.
As for his race; here’s the truth, he’s mix-raced individual in both genetic inheritance and appearance which honestly matters more than anything else.
And as you pointed out on paper could classify himself as a black hispanic or a “white” hispanic, but lets be honest, Zimmerman isn’t white by US standards; so it says something that so many black people “want” him to be white so badly doesn’t it?
And hell; making the claim that at any point I said he made a good or justifiable decision kind of proves my point doesn’t it? Maybe I missed something but where in this thread has anyone said Zimmerman made a good call when he stepped out of his car and disregarded what the police told him to do?
What does it say when you have to make up extreme stances like that to support your point?
LikeLike
@ V-4
“That being said I suppose I can’t support that, since much like you I can only go by my personal experiences and what I’ve seen in regards to that.”—It is interesting that you acknowledge this yet continues a rant based solely on what you believe to be most.
“I said Trayvon wasn’t a “child” or a boy, that doesn’t mean he wasn’t a teenager or stiin the eye of the law, in the US at least.”—Don’t see where I said you did…but keep on.
“Zimmerman isn’t white by US standards; so it says something that so many black people “want” him to be white so badly doesn’t it?”—Wrong. ..they are simply going by what he classifies as based on US paperwork standards. This is the problem with Americans and their race tracking systems. It is fine until it becomes exploited and then there is a problem. By looks alone he is not white…but if you have such an issue change the race tracking practices that lead to people being classified as such. The white part is all they saw and ran with it.
“Maybe I missed something but where in this thread has anyone said Zimmerman made a good call when he stepped out of his car and disregarded what the police told him to do?What does it say when you have to make up extreme stances like that to support your point?”—where did I make the claim that someone on this thread did? Maybe I missed something here. I could ask the same of both sides who in fact has made up extreme stances to support their point, but oh no lets just hound the Martin supporters because they are the only ones. Lets claim the bad of Martin as a fact and the bad of Zimmerman as an opinion or exteme stance.
LikeLike
“V-4
@Linda
Linda if I as an adult white male where to have a conversation with a black person that was trayvon’s age and I were to refer to him as a “boy” how would that be looked at as anything but racist?”
Linda says,
I doubt the average black male teenager would think it’s racist to be called “boy” by any Adult, white or otherwise
If the teen got offended, it would be because they don’t want to be seen as “little kids” …. they want to be seen as “big kids” or “young men” but they’re not going to get bent out of shape about it. (and of course this depends on if the conversation is friendly or belligerent, they would most likely respond to the “tone” of the conversation)
Once again, you’re placing “Adult logic” on the backs of black teenagers —
you are assuming that black teenagers are aware of the racial history and significance of the term “boy” in the USA (sadly, many of them are clueless)
If a white male called a black male Adult “boy”, that is considered a racial offence because the Adult IS aware of the racial significance…the same way white men would be offended if a black man calls them “white boy”
if the teens are aware of the racial connotation of the word “boy”… , they would think that the offense applies to black male Adults and not to them, because most black teens are Aware they are not Adults
attempting to make teenagers look like they can apply “Adult logic” on any given situation, is what is troubling about the whole Trayvon discussion as well as your arguments.
LikeLike
@ v-4
“What exactly about what I stated is wrong? “—And another thing. Don’t be quick to assume that because I respond to you that I am saying you are wrong about something. I pointed out that it was both sides, so the real question you should ask yourself is what was I wrong about? You are wrong in concluding that it is just the AA who do this (or as you put it so many). Are you equally surprised that so many whites and Hispanics who made up Martin supporters did this as well?
“why isn’t just the facts as they happened good enough for them?”—What are the facts in this case? The truth of the matter is no one knows what happened to start that fight which if you pay close attention is what most scenarios are based around. Zimmerman claims to be attacked and for many supporters it becomes a fact, but how is that a fact when no one knows that to be true and no evidence to support it.
LikeLike
@ Peanut
Sometimes they are.
LikeLike
And that is why it is imperative that black people start uniting.
LikeLike
@Peanut
Yeah, it does seem like whites and other non-whites are against us. It feels like Blacks are the convenient human scapegoat for all of society’s ills. Too many of them genuinely believe that Blacks ain’t s***. What’s sad is that many of us agree with them.
LikeLike
@ Peanut
I can’t blame you for how you feel. I am angry as well but I have decided to direct it towards something more productive for black people. Thing is this stuff has always been there and people have kindly glossed over it to keep peace. To spare feelings, but that sh8t has got to stop because black people are the ones hurting from it in the end. White people move on and act like that sh8t never happened.
We as black people have got to stop letting it go unchallenged and separate ourselves from whites.
LikeLike
I think the verdict is a combination of white fatigue, as in slavery is done, civil rights is won, we have a black man in the white house nothing’s about race, it’s a new colorblind existence, therefore justice is right; the black brute stereotype which in my mind is much the same as not seeing blacks as people, but types. I found it most disturbing the attempt to assassinate the character of a teenage boy and/or to make him out to be a brute (he was 6 ft. tall, 200 lbs, a man and not a boy). I have never heard of teen under the age of 18 being referred to as a man. Nobody tried to understand how Trayvon went wrong, no he was just bad. But a week after the verdict the Boston bomber, a white boy, was being celebrated – celebrated on the cover of Rolling Stone. WTF? Watch out when a society begins to dehumanize a certain people and think it’s OK to shoot them down like dogs in the street. It’s one step away from genocide.
LikeLike
I think the most baffling thing about the case is despite all the media attention there’s still a lot of murkiness and misconceptions about the facts. In this case, there were a lot of gaps that made coming to a concrete conclusion nearly impossible. We don’t know for sure who threw the first punch so to speak, though we may have some ideas based on other facts. The bottom line though is that our system puts the burden of proof on the prosecution as we are, “innocent until proven guilty.” This is certainly not a perfect system and sometimes the guilty (I’m not saying Zimmerman was or was not guilty, I’m speaking in general) slip through the cracks, but it’s better than the alternative. The alternative being the accused having the burden to prove their own innocence.
http://rochester.ynn.com/content/top_stories/490926/jury-finds-roderick-scott-not-guilty/
^ The above article is an eerily similar story to the Martin-Zimmerman story, but didn’t garner nearly the same media attention. Seriously, google “Roderick Scott” and see what hits you get. All of the sources are either Rochester local news outlets or right wing conservative blogs.. no NBC, CBS, ABC, Fox News or any such thing. In this case Roderick Scott, a 42 year old black neighborhood watch captain confronted Christopher Cervini a 16 year old white who he thought was breaking into cars in the neighborhood. Scott shot and killed Cervini after Cervini charged at him. Similar to the Zimmerman case there were very few eye-witnesses who saw the entire confrontation and little evidence to either confirm or contradict Scott’s version of events. For the record, Scott was acquitted on the grounds of self defense as well.
In both cases, I think it’s clear that the parties involved made poor choices, both the kids (and quite frankly, I think 18 is a very arbitrary cutoff point for child-adult distinction, though that’s a digression for another time) and the adults who wound up taking the lives of the kids. Loss of life is always regrettable and should never be taken lightly, but based on the available evidence and where the burden of proof rests I have to say both acquittals were the right legal decision. Morally, it’s a bit more murky, but legally these were the right decisions.
The last thing I want to address is the following quotes. “… Many Americans believe O.J. Simpson was guilty. A jury said he wasn’t. So I have as much right to question a jury as they do. Does it make somebody a racist? No! They just disagreed with the jury. So did I.” And, “…an atrocity and a slap in the face to those that believe in justice.” Both quotes are statements Al Sharpton has made, the second one is in reference to the Zimmerman trial. You can see the tone is very different from the first to the second. I’m not disagreeing with Mr. Sharpton that we all have the right, and frankly should, question a jury’s decision, any jury’s decision for that matter, but we must not lose sight of where the responsibility lies when it comes time for a jury to make a decision. What I mean is, the burden of proof is on the prosecution and the prosecution alone, so in our system if the prosecution has not adequately proven their case beyond a reasonable doubt then acquittal is the only option. If you remember in the Simpson murder trial, ALL of the evidence pointed towards his guilt, but chain of custody blunders by the police department left the door open to question the integrity of how the evidence was handled. To many people, and probably in reality, Simpson committed those murders, but in order to maintain the integrity of the system he could not rightfully be convicted. If he were, that would open the door to all kinds of abuse down the road. The anger and outrage when such things happen, should be directed at the parties who dropped the ball, the laws in which we are governed (as this is more relative to both the Scott and Zimmerman cases), and at those who write said laws/have the power to change said laws. It should not be directed towards those who sympathized with the defendant (based on the available evidence), those who are lumped into the same racial or ethnic grouping as the defendant, and especially those who just happen to look kinda sorta like the defendant. That’s just misguided outrage, and honestly it does no one any good.
LikeLike
@ Bofey44
I respect what you are saying but this type of statement is a clear indication of a problem in our society “Though we may have some ideas based on other facts. “—what facts in this case that were presented is an indication (clear or just a thought) of who swung first? I asked this and no one answers because clearly there are none.
The system sucks in more way than one and that is another area where people are misguided. People what to believe the system works, but truth is it works just barely. It is never consistent and you have a better chance depending on who you know and how deep your pockets are. Average people just have no true idea of how messed up the system really is and how often it fails.
LikeLike
Sharina,
Clear cut black and white facts? None. Circumstantial facts, there’s some. We know Zimmerman had injuries on the back of his head and face and that Martin had injuries on his knuckles consistent with what you would sustain throwing punches. The eye witness said they saw Martin on top of Zimmerman swinging his arms, and while they didn’t know for sure if he was connecting with Zimmerman, it’s not a big leap to assume that the “arm swings” were punches.
Now it also depends on what you consider to be the proverbial “first punch.” Did that occur when Zimmerman tracked Martin, was it when the two came face to face, or was it who actually initiated the first blow? That’s a bit subjective. In my opinion Zimmerman watching Martin may have been invasive, rude, and unnecessary, but I don’t think it was the “first punch.” Some context is needed and when you learn that the police had been called to that neighborhood over 400 times in the 13 months leading up to the incident, that often the perpetrators of the suspicious activity had escaped before the cops had arrived, and that in general crime was high in that neighborhood, you can understand why Zimmerman decided to keep on eye on Martin. Could race have played a role? Sure, but we have no concrete facts to back that up like we do with regard to the crime angle.
To draw a parallel with the Scott case I referenced in my previous comment, where do you draw the line as to when the confrontation started and who started it? Did Scott start it when he ventured out of his house to investigate noises he heard outside? Did Scott start it when he drew a gun on three teenagers without knowing whether or not they were armed? Or did Cervini start it when he charged at Scott? Again, that case didn’t have a ton of eye witnesses so there’s not a ton of concrete facts and observations to confirm or deny Scott’s story.
And this is my point about reasonable doubt and our system. Since a lot of these questions cannot be answered without a reasonable doubt, there is no choice but to acquit under our system of laws. I’m not going to deny that the system has it’s problems. At it’s essence it weights that potentially letting a guilty person walk is the lesser evil than convicting an innocent (though sometimes innocent people are convicted.) In broad strokes I agree with that as convicting an innocent not only wrongly punishes someone, but it also assures the guilty party goes free. I don’t propose that our system is perfect, and I’m not going to deny that money can certainly play a role in how well the system treats you with regard to the quality of your defense (though let’s not pretend that Zimmerman was incredibly wealthy, yes he did receive some donations for his defense, but he isn’t a wealthy man by any stretch). As far as connections go, they can help as well but to a lesser extent. And to be honest, I don’t think Zimmerman’s father’s background played much of a role here. His father was a judge in Virginia, not Florida, so it’s not likely that he even knew anyone of influence in Florida.
Overall, I agree with you in that our system is far from perfect though I don’t think it’s as bad as people make it out to be. I surely don’t have a concrete, realistic, and actionable alternative for it. Do you?
LikeLike
What I would like to know is when Zimmerman said “these assholes always get away” is…
Who are “these assholes”?
And
What are they getting away from?
There’s a reason he never took the stand.
LikeLike
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M1_y158omHE)
LikeLike
Hi Julian!
I recently received and confirmed some info about some interesting connections of Tracy and his GF who owned the house in the gated community where Trayvon was staying and the Zimmermans.
I wondered if I could post it here but of course you’d first have to see it. Do you have an email address? Pls send to my mine. If you read it and decide not to go with it I fully understand.
LikeLike
@ Bogey44
Sorry I did not respond sooner as I was busy.
Those “Circumstantial facts” you mentioned still do not say who swung first. I will politely ask do you clearly understand what I mean by evidence that indicates who swung first verse your idea of who swung first? Anytime you need to restate things over and over again it is a clear indication that you do not know and it is also a clear indication that you need not peddle the idea that you know.
“Some context is needed and when you learn that the police had been called to that neighborhood over 400 times in the 13 months leading up to the incident, that often the perpetrators of the suspicious activity had escaped before the cops had arrived, and that in general crime was high in that neighborhood, you can understand why Zimmerman decided to keep on eye on Martin”—Why is context even needed when I asked a simply question. It is only needed in my eyes if you are trying to walk around the idea that you don’t know and trying to make it seem that you have more of an idea than you do.
“I surely don’t have a concrete, realistic, and actionable alternative for it. Do you?”— No but i don’t remember hinting at I did either.
LikeLike
@ Bogey44
I have a comment in moderation for you, but I will further say this. If you don’t know then you simply don’t know. I just don’t understand why you and many others seek to try and go through these massive hoops to make it seem like you know more when in fact you are no different from the others who don’t know.
There are no “concrete facts” to a lot of things in this case but it does not stop you and others claiming the “but I know” rhetoric.
And another thing….don’t proceed to tell me about the law as a filler for your i don’t knows. I know it. I worked in it and I am not disputing it, but I am disputing the nonsense that people just throw around on these boards with nice dressing on it.
LikeLike
@ LDW: Comment deleted for use of a racial slur.
LikeLike
The illustration above exemplify exactly how most white americans feel about George Zimmeraman… that.. whatever George says is the gospel.. as if Jesus Christ said it himself…
LikeLike
I note that 2 comments above a comment was deleted for use of a racial slur… yet I saw at the top others that were not — “pinkskin”, “typical white”, and “cold hearted Neandethal cave bitch”. Um, hello?
LikeLike
@ Jeff
That is name calling not a racial slur. And I see you are still lingering…
LikeLike
There is a list of moderated words here:
If you think another word should be added to that list, you can leave a comment there.
LikeLike
I’m very late but there was evidence that Zimmerman did more than just follow Trayvon. Zimmerman grabbed him as proven by the drawstring of the hoodie being pulled out all the way in conjunction with the testimony of Trayvon telling Zimmerman to get off him and Zimmerman shooting Trayvon in the spot where Trayvon was wearing the photobutton,proving that Zimmerman was not lying down when he fired but had gotten up and pulled on the hoodie. The prosecution mentioned that Zimmerman was grabbing the hoodie,but they were so terrible that mentioned it in the closing arguments,so the jury,itself mishandled and terrible,didn’t listen to them.
LikeLike
R.I.P. Trayvon
Fuck Zimmerman and his supporters
LikeLike
An armed man stalked, confronted and killed an unarmed boy. The armed man did so after he was explicitly told by the police not to stalk the boy, not to get out of his vehicle and confront the boy.
If it was my son, Zimmerman would not still draw breath. Not saying, just saying.
LikeLike
I feel there is just so much to learn from this case. I really believe that anytime a defendant has shot someone and comes up with a preposterous and inconsistent story like Zimmerman, the state lawyers might help their case tremendously by seeking out consultation from self defense experts and having a live demonstration at the trial. http://thefreedombulletin.com/2013/08/how-the-zimmerman-prosecution-blundered-and-lost/
“August 4, 2013
How the Zimmerman Prosecution Blundered and Lost
Filed under: law & crime by Victoria Liberty @ 10:16 am
Trayvon Martin shooting protest 2012 Shankbone 26
Guest post by John Victor
George Zimmerman, a neighborhood watch volunteer shot Trayvon Martin, a 17 year old who was walking to his father’s apartment. Zimmerman thought Martin was “up to no good” and followed the teen, even though a police operator advised him not to.
I predicted a year ago in The Freedom Bulletin that the Zimmerman murder case would be lost to the prosecution due to the fact that they would never reenact the crime with live actors. (See A Martial Artist Analyses the Zimmerman/Martin Murder Case, June 30, 2012). Fully equipped with tunnel vision and the tendency for lawyers to over verbalize and under visualize their cases, the prosecution was forced to accept the defense version of the crime, where Trayvon supposedly attacked Zimmerman. This version would never have survived a reenactment had the prosecution presented their case with live actors for the jury.
We can start with Zimmerman’s account made right after the shooting. There are four important elements: First, he claimed to be pinned against the pavement by Martin who had him in an MMA style mount position. Second, he claimed Martin, while pinning him down, was banging his head against the pavement. Third, Zimmerman was allegedly able to move himself onto the lawn from the pavement (with Martin still on top of him) so that his head wouldn’t be struck against the pavement, and fourth that Martin suposedly went for Zimmerman’s gun. None of this has any credibility.
With Martin pinning Zimmerman in the mount position, it would have been impossible for Zimmerman to get to his gun. (Check the pictures in my previous article.) It was located at a “4 o’clock” position on his waist with his jacket over it, putting the gun underneath Zimmerman with Martin’s leg swung on top of that area. That was pointed out by the prosecution, but their silly use of a cloth manikin muddied their arguments. They should have used a live demonstration, with real people. Nor was it possible for Martin to see the holstered gun from the mount position. (So Martin saw the gun while they were standing? What idiot attacks with fists an opponent who has a gun?)
The next problem was that alleged “head banging”. This is not a common attack in a street fight for two reasons. First, even a beginner knows that the most effective attack from the mount is to punch down on their opponent. Trying to pick up someone’s head is like trying to lift a board that you’re sitting on. This is made even more improbable given that Zimmerman’s brother described his position as a “high mount” with Zimmerman’s arms being pinned to the pavement by Martin’s knees. The only necessary defense is to stiffen one’s neck, which appears to be exactly what Zimmerman claimed he did without knowing it, that he “crawled on his back” to get off the pavement, meaning that he had to arch his back, making “head banging” impossible. Then all Zimmerman had to do was arch his back with upward force and Martin would have gone flying off. (This isn’t some obscure and difficult martial arts trick. This is what 10 year olds are taught to do in martial arts classes.)
So why did Zimmerman cook up this questionable story about the head banging? –Because he had scratches on the back of his head that had to be explained. Outside his bloody nose, he didn’t have enough facial injuries to claim repeated punching.
My own analysis was made more secure in the fact that the defense seems to have accepted it. In their rebuttal, they put Martin, not seated on Zimmerman’s chest so that he couldn’t move, but in a ridiculous “low mount” with Martin sitting on Zimmerman’s thighs. Zimmerman could now get his gun, but the head banging or punching would be out of the question. To get out of that attack all Zimmerman would have to do is to roll over and the position would be broken. To save their scenario, the defense had Martin grab Zimmerman not by the head but by the shoulders, then body slamming him to the pavement. Anyone who thinks this is credible should try it with a live person, particularly one who’s bigger, while sitting on his thighs. The defense was lucky that proving this wrong was way over the heads of the prosecutors.
Who was shouting for help? Zimmerman? Not likely. Fighters under stress (esp. untrained ones) are not multitaskers. Assuming the Zimmerman story, he would have had four major tasks to deal with: keeping Martin from punching or grabbing at his head, pushing Martin back to expose his gun, forcing in his hand to reach his gun, and finally screaming for help. Engaged in the first three would have taken all of Zimmerman’s attention. Only Trayvon Martin could have been in a position where there were no alternatives (he didn’t have a weapon to go for).
Then there’s another issue. Inexperienced fighters have a distinctive habit of holding their breath while trying to fight. One cannot scream for help, fight and hold one’s breath all at the same time. Once one fighter is held and can’t do anything else, then the screams for help might materialize. That wasn’t Zimmerman.
Now we have the problem of the witness who saw Martin in the top position in the mount. This testimony would have been a lot more believable if he had stuck to what he had actually saw, instead of trying to be “helpful” and filling in details he probably didn’t actually see. One should be careful about taking eyewitness accounts at face value. Just ask the Innocence Project how many innocent people were put in prison due to eyewitness testimony, later disproved by DNA evidence.
A study was done decades ago regarding race and eyewitness accounts. A picture was shown to test subjects which showed a black man dressed in a business suit being threatened by a white teenager dressed in a leather jacket. After a minute the picture was withdrawn and the subjects were asked what they saw. A number said that the picture showed a white man being threatened by a black teenager, or that there was no threat shown in the picture at all!
The “helpful” witness said that the lighter skinned person was on the ground being attacked by the darker skinned person, and the person on the ground was wearing red. Could this have been seen in poor lighting, where red often appears black, and Martin was wearing a hood that would have covered his face? And what color does the olive complexion of Zimmerman appear in the dark? What the prosecution should have done was to photograph the crime scene with live actors from the distance and angle the witness allegedly saw the event. Chances are that none of the little details would have been apparent, calling this witness into question, but the prosecution wasn’t up to the task.
A more believable witness that first came forward told what she saw, but more important, what she didn’t see. And she did not notice the hood on the top person, indicating that the person on top may not have been Martin at all.
The next major issue is the injuries that the Zimmerman suffered, all of which were superficial and quickly disappeared after the fight. The defense had Martin sucker punching Zimmerman with a left hook—odd since Martin was right handed. In a typical street fight the attacker would have grabbed left and punched right handed. In addition, the punch would not have hit Zimmerman in the nose but on the jaw or the side of the head. This would have left a major black eye and swelling on the right side, something not in evidence.
Zimmerman made it a point of not going to the hospital to examine his injuries, particularly the broken nose. Was the nose previously broken or was this particular injury self-inflicted? We’ll never know, and Zimmerman was careful to get only the most cursory examination.
The “helpful” witness claims to have seen Martin on top raining punches down on Zimmerman “MMA style”. If this were true, there would be another problem: what about Martin’s hands? An untrained fighter throwing a bunch of punches into the skull of an opponent would have smashed up his hands and wrists. All Martin showed was some bruising on the ring finger of his left hand. With the aid of cross examination, the witness then took back this testimony and went for something that would fit into the head banging scenario. And should it be mentioned that the only person in the fight trained in MMA was Zimmerman?
There is one more issue that the prosecution should have explored, and that was how Zimmerman was physically “compromised”. His MMA instructor described him as being “soft” and not a very good fighter. He didn’t show much in the way of being physically handicapped at the trial. He walked and moved normally in court. But he did reveal something. When the verdict of “innocent” came down, he barely reacted (given that he just avoided living in a cramped cell for 30 years with a guy named Bubba.) This was a “deer in the headlights” response. He trained for 2 years at MMA and lost considerable weight, so where was this “softness”?
The best explanation may have come from listening to his call to the police about “the kid that was up to no good” in his neighborhood. The conversation with the operator lacked any intensity that one would expect from someone reporting a possible crime, spoken with a rambling, almost spaced out tone. It reminded me of a routine once made popular by the standup comic George Carlin, the “hippy, dippy weatherman”, representing a spaced out hippy on drugs doing the news. It turns out that Zimmerman was on some powerful prescription drugs, but after the shooting he was tested for nothing. (His drug treatment combined with alcohol would have been a disastrous combination.) The prosecution could have called a speech expert to analyze his spaced out speech, but failed to do so. The court ruled that the recording of the cries for help could not be subject to an expert testimony as to the source of the cries (who probably correctly identified them as coming from Martin), but this would not have ruled out examining Zimmerman’s blurry speech to the police dispatcher.
What exactly happened between Trayvon Martin and George Zimmerman will be the subject of speculation for the foreseeable future. What is not at issue is that Zimmerman lied repeatedly regarding events and could have been easily proved by the prosecution. So let’s try for a credible scenario.
Street fights generally follow a stereotyped script. A few may not, but nearly all do. They start with a “warm up”. This is a verbal exchange between the parties, which was reported by Martin’s girl friend that was talking to him on a cell phone just before the shooting. “Why are you following me” and “get off me” was reported to have been said by Martin.
After a heated verbal exchange one party closes in and there’s a pushing contest where both sides test each other’s aggression and strength with a shoving match. Then one side grabs the other and punches are thrown, which in this case would be Zimmerman grabbing Martin on the right side so that he could only punch with his left hand. Zimmerman reported during his medical examination that he was having “balance problems”, which would account for why this fight went immediately to the ground where Zimmerman struck and rolled around on the pavement, scratching the back of his head.
At some point Zimmerman rolled to the top position so that he could get his gun, drew it and shoots Martin. (The angle and loose clothing issue could still be explained from this position.)
Fortunately for Zimmerman, the lame prosecution was unable or incapable of doing a proper analysis of the shooting. This is a problem not simply for the Martin family for the public in general. My own experience with high profile self-defense cases indicates clearly that those of any complexity are often wrongly decided. Lawyers as a group can’t visualize worth a damn and get most of their self-defense ideas from watching movies or TV. Anyone unfortunate enough to be caught in this kind of situation may have more to fear from the lawyers than the law itself.
Tags: George Zimmerman, guest post, self-defense, Trayvon Martin
Comments are closed.”
LikeLike
The whites that identify with Zimmerman might have been siding with him because with his racially ambiguous features and TWO “white man names” HE PASSES FOR WHITE in addition to the usual colorism and racism against blacks
I’ve noticed some whites either very stubbornly and purposefully refuse to deny there’s anything wrong with what happened while others it’s just way too obvious.
LikeLike
Blacks sided with OJ Simpson. They applauded loudly in the court room after he got away with it. So don’t tell me it’s just Whites who side withe Whites.
LikeLike
Mrs.Ocean-Graham (TorontoGirl) on Thursday August 1st 2013 at 16:21:11
I didn’t know white people could have “black” hair naturally tanned skin and full lips like Egyptians even today have!
But then again race has no basis in reality, I’m expecting too much from a cold headed Neanderthal cave b****!
@Abagond he is using racial slur
LikeLike
@ Jeff @ Mr Satan
Comment deleted. Thanks.
LikeLike