Every year far more Americans lose their lives in street crimes than died in 9/11. The reason you hear so much about 9/11 is because President Bush, never one to miss an opportunity, blew it up for political gain.
There is no doubt that there is reason for Americans to be upset. Those who died were unarmed, and there seems to be no reason at all that Al Qaeda killed them, except that they were Americans.
My question is quite simple. Where is the outrage for the Americans who are killed every day in this country? More than twice as many Americans are killed by other Americans every year than were killed by Al Qaeda. Does it matter who they were killed by? Why don’t we care that Americans are being murdered at alarming rates?? Because other Americans are killing them? That makes it somehow less tragic??
My American friends tell me that this case is worse because those who lost their lives in 9/11 were killed for nothing more than being Americans. But is the American killed accidently by a drive by shooting any more dead than those who died in 9/11? Again, is that any less tragic??
It’s not that I don’t think they have a right to be outraged, they do. But I just wish we could generate this outrage over the lives of these Americans who are killed every day. In New York City alone there were 536 murder victims last year. Isn’t that enough to be outraged over?? Instead we have to rely on the likes of George Bush to swoop in, but ONLY if the killers are foreign terrorists.
So, we expend all this energy on 9/11, a tragedy to be sure, but the murdered Americans of this year are just as dead.
The decimation of the American family is the main cause of the social ills in America and you only have to be “operating in humanity” to see that. But George Bush and his ilk never want to address that. They never want to address the teenage pregnancy rates, the divorce rates, the abortion rates, drug use, or the high school drop out rate.
In 1950 fewer than 4% of children were born outside of marriage. The social ills were negligible then. By 2008 over 40% were. It doesn’t take studies or a genius to see the correlation.
Children who grow up without a father are five times more likely to live in poverty and commit crime; nine times more likely to drop out of schools and twenty times more likely to end up in prison. They are more likely to have behavioral problems, or run away from home, or become teenage parents themselves. And the foundations of our community are weaker because of it.
What I want to see is this same passion for 9/11 channeled into changing the dynamic of the American family. Go into any suburban community and you go into a land of drugs and children being raised without fathers. THAT is the biggest tragedy of all.
– Abagond, 2012.
Source: This post is modelled on “The Tragedy of Trayvon” on the Houston Chronicle blog TexasSparkle. This is my way of mocking its reasoning.
Thanks to Ankhesen Mié for pointing out the TexasSparkle post.
See also:
- Trayvon Martin
- Trayvon Martin: the 911 tapes
- Black people: The Republican User’s Guide
- black pathology
- The black-on-black crime argument – what this post mocks
- 9/11
Ahahahahahahaha!!! I thought you were up to something!! yes, screw that TexasSparkle article. Nice work as always Abagond!!! xxx
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The only reason I can see 9/11 being propped up is due to the ever-present cameras rolling at the time of attack and the shock of lives being lost all at once. Otherwise, this post makes some very good points. I suppose one way to look at things is by visiting the world clock site…http://www.poodwaddle.com/clocks/worldclock/
It may not be accurate, but it can shed light into global consumption…:/
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The decimation of the American family is the main cause of the social ills in America and you only have to be “operating in humanity” to see that.
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@ Abagond,
I highly disagree with this statement. But we can agree to disagree.
As far as the rest of the post, I agree 100%.
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Maybe this post should be labeled as parody.
That linked article is so filled with incredible disrespect and ignorance that I don’t know where to begin. She writes with that same sophist and convoluted logic as destructure, like somehow, the issue is now the social ills of the black family, with the implied innuendo: Trayvon is a thug with no parents. But even worse, saying “Al Sharpton and his ilk” or “this time the shooter is white” or “some celebrity twitter”.
Sickening.
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@ Abagond
After reading her article, whites have sunk to a new low.
I never thought that was possible.
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@personinmotion
If i may, why do you disagree? In almost every society a family in the most basic divisible unit. This is where people learn basic social and behavioural life skills. Seems like common sense to me that where there is a breakdown of this first ‘society’ if you will, then it has a ripple effect on the rest of the larger society.
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OMG! Her article and her comments! What!
They way she speaks is how i heard ‘concerned’ white folk speak about criticism on Kony 2012. I couldn’t even finish her article or her comments. She basically patting herself on the back, at least i care for all these poor fatherless children unlike YOU black people like Al Sharpton.
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You are aware of the ethinicity of most of the murderers in the US of A?
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Excellent post! Brilliantly written.
That TexasSparkle broad is the epitome of the WHITE-TRASH mother-figure and wet dream, parading itself as a semblance of a human being! She spouts the same nonsense as the ever-present trolls do. She’s the type who will teach her children that any child with skin darker than her sugar-daddy’s cream-colored letterhead is ‘dirty and unclean’.
I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again: they read verbatim from the same racist bible, yet will insist that they aren’t racist until they’re blue in the face. Sheer comedy! 😎
Cue the trolls in 3…..
2……
1……
GO!!
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Brilliantly done Abagond.
Bless texassparkle’s heart – critical thinking and nuance just are not within her range…
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Well I actually think she makes some good points, Abagond. There were 40 people shot in Chicago last weekend, including several children and no one is protesting that.
I understand that the protests in Florida are against systematic racism but I do think there should be (more) outrage when the fatalities over a two day period in an American city mirror that of cities in war zones.
Of course I do think she goes off the rails when she speaks about out-of-wedlock births. I think that’s a red herring argument. A huge number of White kids are born out of wedlock as well. I think she misses the that the crime in inner cities is a result of many decades of poverty, under-education, loss of jobs and systematic racism.
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Troll here, on cue, at your command.
I’m glad I saw the reference to the TexasSparkle article, otherwise I’d be wasting alot of time writing about 9-11.
The Trayvon Martin killing is a tragedy and I believe GZ should go to trial for it.
What I don’t like about the TexasSparkle article is that she does go off on a tangent about black-on-black killings. She is, of course, correct about the scope of black-on-black compared to white-on-black killings, but I think an article about Trayvon Martin killing is not the place to do it.
What I don’t like about the coverage of the Trayvon Martin killing in the Black Blogosphere is the overstating of the frequency of white-on-black killings. Face it, GZ, in 2012, is a rarity. There are not hordes of whites going around killing black kids. A black child is still safer in a white majority community than a black community.
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sepultura13:
Again with the racist pejoratives?
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“But George Bush and his ilk never want to address that. They never want to address the teenage pregnancy rates, the divorce rates, the abortion rates, drug use, or the high school drop out rate.”
Bush and his ilk talked about this all the time! Moral majority crap. It made us sick because he condescendend to the people he was speaking about…”saving our children” . Wish I could say Jesse Jackson was better than that though……
This post has the same twisted and misguided half-truths as the original. It’s almost surreal…..
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I skimmed a couple of graphs of sparkle’s post. Maybe I just read the wrong parts but all the weepy “I care” and “can’t we all just get along” themes made me want to puke. However, I kind of liked abagond’s article. Too bad it was a parody. He was starting to make sense for a change.
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“After reading her article, whites have sunk to a new low.
I never thought that was possible”
Cut the theatrics already.
@Abagond
Should I be offended and say “blacks have sunk to a new low” because they’ve actually read the article and in their minds believed what this women was saying? I can’t even take her stuff seriously, she just reminds me of someone who needs to seriously rethink her views on life. But then again, I guess I could say her blog wasn’t meant for “blacks” and everything she says is honky-dory.
@Valentina
“Of course I do think she goes off the rails when she speaks about out-of-wedlock births. I think that’s a red herring argument. A huge number of White kids are born out of wedlock as well.”
Couldn’t agree more with that .. once I saw that I couldn’t believe anyone would take her seriously unless they reside on the extreme right.
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Abagond –
Why is so hard for white people like TexasSparkle (and MILLIONS of others) to understand basic stuff? *Because they do not want to!*
Black people are sick and tired of whites killing/shooting/abusing blacks UNDER THE COVER & CLOAK OF AUTHORITY/RACISM/LEGAL SYSTEM and getting away with it.
So, when some clueless white people bring up this incessant question: “why aren’t black folks as outraged when blacks kill other blacks,” it’s simply a diversionary tactic used to derail, conceal or dismiss the matter at hand. White systemic racism!
Blacks killed by other blacks, and blacks killed by those working in/for a racist system are separate and different on one level — but not on another.
That other level being internalized racism aka self-hate – is at the root of much of the black on black violence we’re witnessing. Said another way: much black on black crime is the EFFECT of the CAUSE: RACISM/WHITE-SUPREMACY.
White people need ask themselves (if they dare or care …) what is the origin of black self-hate, internalized racism, blacks not liking/trusting other blacks? Where does this come from? Why is this happening?
Plenty of research has been done. Some truthful answers are out there for anyone interested enough to look.
But THEY won’t, because to accept and believe those answers requires them to have to take a good long hard look at THEMSELVES – and we know that’s not going to happen because everyone knows that there’s nothing really terrible about white people. They’re just normal. But there’s something terribly WRONG with those dark people, because, well … they’re black. (sic)
Whiteness bolsters/uplifts whites, as it inversely weighs down, holds back blacks. Black people are constantly struggling/fighting against the tide of whiteness seeking to overwhelm us. To wit, if these supposedly intellectually superior (yet somehow clueless & delusional) people are unable to unravel, see or admit this basic truth, then the very least they could do is – shut the hell up.
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@Matari: You have to be fair. 83% of black-white crime is black-on-white. Even if it was the ‘legacy of slavery’, that’s still not an excuse. Bitching about the white-on-black slaughter without crediting the majority is disingenuous.
To be clear, I am not attempting to justify any crime for any reason. I was just pointing out that you can’t cherry-pick your data.
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If i may, why do you disagree? In almost every society a family in the most basic divisible unit. This is where people learn basic social and behavioural life skills. Seems like common sense to me that where there is a breakdown of this first ‘society’ if you will, then it has a ripple effect on the rest of the larger society.
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@ Malkia
My opinion based on what I have read and what I have experienced is that a family is not necessary for a happy or healthy child.
Now i am not going to sit here and tell anyone that it has to be this way, like Randy, Doug1, Destructure etc. If someone can find research that says otherwise, i actually consider alternative perspectives and contradicting opinions.
Research shows that it is the quantity and quality of interactions had between the child and their primary caregiver that defines the child’s mental and emotional well-being. (Mary Ainsworth’s research on attachment, Mary Main, John Bowlby, Alan Sroufe).
A nuclear family can be a nightmare for a child if the family is destructive.
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personinmotion:
The comparison term of “Isn’t necessary” could logically apply to an event which has one-in-a-billion odds of success, and so is rather useless in this type of discussion.
Would you ever suggest that two parents isn’t by far the superior configuration when considering any other pair-bonded species? Of course not.
“Family Fact of the Week: Closing the Marriage Gap Between Rich and Poor”
http://blog.heritage.org/2012/02/09/family-fact-of-the-week-closing-the-marriage-gap-between-rich-and-poor/
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Commentarybyvalentina,
Well I actually think she makes some good points, Abagond. There were 40 people shot in Chicago last weekend, including several children and no one is protesting that.
Maybe it’s not publicized, but I’m sure there are people there that are trying their hardest to do something about it. And I know there are people outraged about that as well, especially the families of those people.
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Also commentarybyvalentina,
You also have to note that whites are silent about the crime going within their communites committed by other whites.
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@ Randy
I wouldn’t agree with that at all. The availability of a second parent means nothing to the well-being of the child if the second parent is not facilitating the well-being of the child. Many parents do not facilitate the well-being of their own children. Why would their presence enhance child psychological well being. The attachment system runs from the ONE primary caregiver, and the One primary care receiver. Not between multiple caregivers and the care receiver.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attachment_theory
So by no means would i argue in favor of a parent that is disruptive force in a child’s home. Even if the parents are in the midst of chaotic relations and can’t mend fences, then i don’t think it is in the interests of the child to have both parents.
AS long as the child feels secure in it’s primary attachment, then they will do better. And that includes income considerations.
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@ brothawolf
“You also have to note that whites are silent about the crime going within their communites committed by other whites.”
Anything to keep up the facade.
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Personinmotion brings up a good point, its not just the lack of a two-parent household that does it, plenty of white households without the same level of criminality happen especially looking out of the states.
Of course that would also include the PoC over there that have similiar households who aren’t as violent or criminal.
That black men in those kinds of relationships in the US are more involved with their children than any other kind of ethnicity.
Another aspect of course is economics in general; back in the day you could do 30 hr weeks make enough money to support yourself and your family, send at least one of your kids to college and got more vacation time then the average american gets now.
And simply available jobs; with sending alot of jobs out of the country and technology making even less people needed, their simply aren’t as many jobs available to keep people occupied and stable that might once have done.
Than of course the drug war also causing many of the social ills.
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Personally, my whole issue with “Texas Sparkle’s” article was that she was basically telling black people how to feel about certain tragic events and where to put more energy into correcting these problems. She sounded like some of the trolls that pop up with similar responses.
She never explained how this and other similar incidents opened deep racial wounds. And to add insult to injury, she questions our emotions while comparing this case with the cases involving so-called black-on-black crime.
Like I said, we are outraged by black-on-black killings. We’ve been outraged for decades now, and black people are doing everything they can to turn the tide. But through it all, the system to devalue black lives still runs at full steam. We can only do so much inside a powerful system of dehumanization.
What are white people doing to stop the crime and violence in our or their communities? Are they so worried about our behavior that they would neglect their own even if it’s destructive? Apparently so.
At this point, I’ve lost faith that most whites will one day trade in their whiteness for humanity and wisdom. Whiteness is their security blanket.
I’m sick and tired of being told when the appropriate time is to feel certain ways by white people. It’s not enough that many of them feel the need to control us, but they want to tell us when we can laugh, cry, scream, and tremble?
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Also about teen pregnancy rates; its actually been dropping since the 1950’s, at least until 2000, its that “unwed” teen pregnancies have been increasing at the same time.
And not just because of abortions; the abortion rate has actually been dropping as well.
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And what White people do to stop crime in their communities is basically pay for some police, or do what Zimmerman did with the nightwatch stuff, security guards etc…..
Beyond that; if you mean the really crime afflicted area’s with the hillbillies and crystal meth and what have you, well aside from bust some heads on occassion then it doesn’t really matter because their poor.
I guess ultimately they just move away from the communities more often than not.
Basically if they want to screw their lives up; long as it doesn’t touch me and mine, than we don’t care.
And TexasSparkle is right about that one thing, if he had been reported as hispanic the outrage wouldn’t have been the same.
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“V-4
And TexasSparkle is right about that one thing, if he had been reported as hispanic the outrage wouldn’t have been the same.”
I might be off but I think most people (black) are angry by the police’s non-action (not arresting) rather than the fact that Zimmerman is white and hispancic (he’s both regardless of one drop rule)
It’s the perceived historical double-standards that the police have used for years that many people are upset about, not with white people as a race.
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From a non-US point of view…
9/11 was a tragedy and I’m sorry for all the innocent people who died. But it was such a small event comparing to murders and ward and stuff that happens all over the world. Not that any human loss can be called “a small event”, but from an European POV (with all the wars that were going on here), the way Americans make 9/11 to be is just… silly. People were dying in larger numbers every day during all those wars that were fought in Europe and other continents, so American making such a big deal of 9/11 seem like whining of a child who has never faced the real world.
Again, I am sorry for the people who died. It’s inexcusable. But Americans did seem like whiny babies when they were faced with it. This sort of crap is something that’s going on around the world all the time. Why do Americans think they’re “speshul” in this regard? And it’s not just a racial/ethnic issue. Many western countries in Europe know what is like to lose thousands of their people in the war and to get their countries invaded and destroyed. And then Americans go and whine about two buildings that collapsed.
Furthermore, let’s not forget about all these people who died – and who continue to die all around the world – just because they are NOT Americans (or because they are of X nationality).
None of this make 9/11 right, and nothing can justify it, and I hope all those people now rest in peace. I’m just saying a life of an American is not more (or less) valuable than a life of a non-American. To make a bigger deal when your people are killed when this crap is going on all around the world (sometimes, caused by this same US intervention) is… I don’t even know how to call it.
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@Linda
This guys probably as White as Halle Berry is but are they both white? According to Halle Berry and this guys father, both Zimmerman and her daughter are not White.
People are outraged because of racial wounds being opened by this case, wounds which if the earlier reports had said hispanic instead of white, wouldn’t have been applicable.
If would have just been another sad death in a nation full of sad deaths.
The racial element is why this has gained national attention.
If it had just been another PoC doing the murder it wouldn’t have.
After all; if it wasn’t so important why the continual denial of this guys visible and known non-white status?
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Again with the racist pejoratives?
What racist perogatives?
What does having children out of wedlock have to do with 911?
But there are black folks working within the community to combat these ills. It doesn’t make it into the mainstream media. Unless it is some white chick jiggling her t*ts and batting her eyes, the mainstream whites ain’t interested. They are mostly interested if the perpetrators are black, racialized or hillbillies…in that order. Here is a documentary about people within some communities attempting to combat this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Interrupters
Matari is right these incidences of black on black violence, are symptiomatic of internalized racism brought on by a healthy dose of white supremacy. The mainstream isn’t interested in black on black violence unless there is a white person in there helping coloureds out. This is why alot of these racist whites love to spew statistics and such. It helps bolster their self worth. They couldn’t give a fiddler’s flatulence for the plight of these particular black people getting killed. Should blacks kill whites, well that’s another story. This broad ‘Sparkles’ is the epitomy of this type of thinking. The ingredients? Take a condescending tone, add some ‘compassion’ and treat blacks in a infantile manner, add a tablespoon of cud, mix well and you have thoroughly inedible crap; throw in accusations of racism from others to give them the aura of martyrs, afterall they just want to be kind to the ungrateful coloureds.
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V-4,
“This guys probably as White as Halle Berry is but are they both white? According to Halle Berry and this guys father, both Zimmerman and her daughter are not White.”
Linda says,
Not sure what you mean by your above statement.
I don’t think anyone is denying Zimmermans Hispanic ethnicity, it just doesn’t factor in because he is racial wise–perceived as “white”, just like he perceived Trayvon as being “black” and for all we know, Trayvon could also be ethnically Hispanic.
The Los angeles police put down “white” for Nicole Ritchie’s race after they arrested her, even though it is known that her biological father is Hispanic/Latino (which I doubt the police knew or cared about while they were arresting her)
I know most white American’s don’t see Hispanics as white, but many Latinos/ Hispanics (at least the ones in Florida) seem to see themselve as “white”, like those 2 little girls in the racist video (Racist White Teen Girls Goes On A Rant About Blacks)
You are right when you say that the Media has given air-play to this story by playing up the racial angle because lets face it, you all (both black and white Americans) are sensitive to racial issues because of your mutual and historical dislike for each other, so what better way to get “john public” to pay attention.
As for being outraged, I am not American and I am angry by this case because Zimmerman wasn’t arrested and he killed a child.
The black Americans I speak to are angry because of what they see as a double standard yet again employed by the POLICE….those are the wounds that I’m hearing about.
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“Mira said
Why do Americans think they’re “speshul” in this regard? And it’s not just a racial/ethnic issue. Many western countries in Europe know what is like to lose thousands of their people in the war and to get their countries invaded and destroyed. And then Americans go and whine about two buildings that collapsed.”
ewww, Mira, you’re going to get it for this one…wait till the our resident trolls read this…you better get ready duck and take cover.
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I thought all those question marks, doubling up on themselves was a bit mysterious….
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Good points, well taken. You could take it even one step further, though, and look at the problem of premature death like an engineer would. In that case, you’d probably first target all resources at eliminating automobile travel, smoking and alcohol, since those things, alone and in combination, account for untold numbers of deaths and injuries.
As to the media, I call it the West Nile Syndrome. The West Nile is an “exotic” virus that was not originally found in the US. It’s transmitted by mosquitoes, which people find icky. However, it’s not particularly virulent. Since it first arrived on US shores, probably a decade or so ago, about 10,000 – 15,000 total people have died from it. Most people who are infected never know it, or maybe experience a minor fever fora day or so. Gradually, as it has moved across the nation, the entire population has been exposed to it and has developed a natural immunity.
In the meantime, every year ordinary influenza kills something on the order of 35,000 people. Every year.
Yet year after year the newspapers trumpet the arrival of West Nile in yet another state (you never hear about it twice in a state because within a year the population generally develops immunity), while remaining silent about the flu. We have learned to accept the flu, including the tens of thousands of annual deaths it causes, as a normal part of life. We become alarmed at the exotic newcomer because it is exotic and new, not because, as a factual matter, it is particularly deadly.
So it is with 9/11. By far, most acts of terrorism within our national boundaries are committed by American citizens, usually lunatics (like the Washington sniper or the kids who shot up Columbine High School) but sometimes people with fringe political agendas (like the Unabomber or those guys who bombed the Oklahoma federal building). Yet the (so-called liberal) news media fixates on 9/11 for over a decade.
Consider the damage, in terms of actual human suffering, inflicted by the Bernie Madoffs, the Ken Lays, etc. On a giant scale, whole families reduced to poverty and ruin. Suicides, broken marriages, etc. Yet the media focuses on 9/11.
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@Matari
So, when some clueless white people bring up this incessant question: “why aren’t black folks as outraged when blacks kill other blacks,” it’s simply a diversionary tactic used to derail, conceal or dismiss the matter at hand. White systemic racism!
Blacks killed by other blacks, and blacks killed by those working in/for a racist system are separate and different on one level — but not on another.
That other level being internalized racism aka self-hate – is at the root of much of the black on black violence we’re witnessing. Said another way: much black on black crime is the EFFECT of the CAUSE: RACISM/WHITE-SUPREMACY.
THANK YOU!
This was even documented extensively by the late Dr. Amos Wilson.
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ewww, Mira, you’re going to get it for this one…wait till the our resident trolls read this…you better get ready duck and take cover.
Meh. I don’t think resident trolls are interested in this. At least not resident trolls here.
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@Herneith
Matari is right these incidences of black on black violence, are symptiomatic of internalized racism brought on by a healthy dose of white supremacy.
This is why its hard to take all these black claims of white racism seriously. Blacks want to blame everything on whites; even though their own violence against each other. This is arguing that blacks are helpless and are not fully mature and responsible for their own behavior.
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“You have to be fair. 83% of black-white crime is black-on-white. Even if it was the ‘legacy of slavery’, that’s still not an excuse. Bitching about the white-on-black slaughter without crediting the majority is disingenuous.”
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Oh, so now the VICTIMS of racism have to be fair???
What about the 10 – 20% of “hardcore” racist white people, do they have to be fair?
And what of those 75% of white people who are not AS racist, but still harbor racist beliefs, ideas and tendencies. You know who I mean, those (like maybe you, and Randy) that give their silent consent by not vocally condemning – speaking out against – their more outrageous, outspoken, belligerent hateful brethren. Do they have to be fairl??
Nameless..you seem to be another one of the endless supply of clueless white people that drops in and says the same exact thing stated by hundreds of others before you. It seems like you people are getting your tiresome scripts from the same play book.. ‘The White Racial Frame Handbook For Clueless People.’ People who apparently can’t reason much beyond 2+2.
Sorry, I don’t have it in me to be “fair” or to hold your hand and explain why and how your misguided premise/beliefs are full of holes. But since you are no doubt, an “objective” unbiased observer, heh, you should at least be able to see the bright spectacular light shining on the recently reported events in Florida revealing that things (CRIMES) are often shaped, changed, reconfigured to appear other than they are.
Do not be deceived. America loves hiding its cruel nastiness. These adulterated methodologies that have been well cloaked and covered since the start of the Black Codes and Jim Crow eras are now being exposed to the light of day.
One more thing.. it matters not whether Z is white or Hispanic – or both. (People are acting like they forgot that there ARE “white” Hispanics!) The apparatus/system/network of IMPLICIT-ly BIAS-ed practitioners that sought to excuse/help this murderer cover-up his heinous crime is heavily invested in whiteness. The city of Sanford and the state of Florida circled their wagons around that fool, thereby making themselves accomplices after the fact.
Whiteness is a vicious, evil, hateful, demonic thing. Perhaps the more light (exposure) whiteness gets, the more hope there is for the hopeless?
America won’t ever heal from its racist ways until whites stop their racism and collectively come to the table and ask for our forgiveness…
I really don’t see that happening… their collective hearts of made of ice.
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I love the ass-pull statistics that people on here are using. The “Oh my god, how can you be so outraged about white men gunning black kids down for walking when exactly 83% of black-white crime is black on white! I’m gonna use statistics from Stormfront because they agree with me!”
It is so hilarious to me because the truth always says otherwise.
But then, we don’t hear as much about black men being chased into oncoming traffic by gangs of white boys, or Asian men being beaten to death for getting jobs white people want…or young black men being hung and having their throats slit but being classified as suicides…that would be so reverse-racist of us! Everyone knows that we need to focus on the fact that this boy’s murder was just white people saying “enough!” on the huge, unproven, rampant crime rate that every black person has time to take part in! Silly us. Everyone knows he was a thug without a father who he was visiting, and he was going to rob a house with a bottle of tea. And the police did the right thing by treating him like the criminal! After all, Stormfront says all black people are criminals, so he was likely one, even if he didn’t have a criminal record.
We need to be educated more on what it’s really about and white people are so kind for trying to teach us.
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@Mira:
Why, Mira, you’re just a foreigner looking in from the outside. You don’t know what you’re talking about. You’re just jee-lus! 😉
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Sure there are “white” hispanics, though almost none of them are truly “white”, definately not in the sense we use it in the US.
Literally almost all of them have some degree of mixed blood.
Then consider that people in South America who call themselves “White” practically look like George Lopez half the time….
Also another thing about households without fathers causing all the ill’s in black society, taking in the growths of the society as compared to the lack of fathers you could almost make an argument in the opposite direction.
Violence against black men has dropped around 73% since the early nineties.
Black people have consistently gone up through the decades economically speaking.
There is a Black President.
Sure; I mean it was pretty much a given I would throw Obama in there as an example of generalized positive things that have happened over the decades as improvements but still just making a point here, if you wanted you could make a list of positive things that have happened around the same period of time as the increase of unwed teen pregnancies.
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Tragedies such as 9/11 aren’t common occurences here. (Perhaps you think they should be, but they aren’t). So our horror over it should be at least somewhat understandable. Also, I interviewed for a job in the World Trade Center and, had I accepted it, I most definitely would have been sitting in an office somewhere on the very upper levels when the planes hit the towers. I more than likely would have died a particularly horrific death that day. Please pardon me if I’m a bit whiny about 9/11.
At least one (or both) of the blog’s Finnish posters became very upset as he didn’t think the American commenters were as duly outraged as they should have been over the massacre which took place in Norway a while back. One of the American posters expreesed great sympathy for the victims and explained that that sort of violence occurence happens all the time over here. I’m glad he didn’t accuse the Finn of trying to be “speshul” as that would have been entirely inappropriate considering the circumstances
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Fat loser wannabe-cop gets strong with a black kid minding his own business. Fight ensues. Black kid gets upper hand over bigger but woefully out of shape wannabe. Wannabe pulls his piece and kills black kid. Wannabe knows about “stand your ground laws”.
Wannabe is half and half Hispanic/Jewish (assumption on the latter). Incident takes place in electoral-vote-rich Florida in a Presidential election year.
Not saying the incident itself was engineered–just the reaction. Wannabe-martyrdom doesn’t help the President’s FL chances.
I’ll take off my tinfoil hat now. But this game is not checkers–it’s chess.
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@parfum bleu:
As a finn and as some one who has lived in NYC I was truly shocked by 911 terrorist act. It was, after all, the biggest loss of life on US soil since the civil war, and I for one have never down played its horror. For me, any violence against civilians is horrible, no matter what.
The real tragedy of 911 was that Bush government used it as an excuse to attack Irak, a country that had nothing to do with that. They started a ten year war during which thousands of american guys were killed and hundreds of thousands of irakis lost their lives. Tens of thousands of americans were injured and crippled for those lies told by USA government in UN in justification of that war.
I would have understud if USA had attacked Afganistan, that is where Osama and his ilk were hiding, but Irak???
As for the victims of 911, they came from all over the world, just like New York population is. There were people killed from Asia to America. There was a huge sympathy for USA right after that BUT the Bush government managed to ruin all that in a hurry. They really fKd it up.
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Oh, and as to the following resentment filled understatement: “And then Americans go and whine about two buildings that collapsed.”
Here’s so more whining for ya: Two buildings that collapsed…both of which were filled from top to bottom with people of various nationalities and income levels, and, after having planes loaded with men, women and children, not to mention gallons and gallons of fuel, purposefully crashed into two buildings, turning their upper levels into blazing infernos, causing a few victims inside to actually chance jumping hundreds of feet to a splattering, bloody, bone-crunching certain death on the street below, two buildings finally did collapse, causing still further death and destruction as the fell.
,
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Parfum Bleu,
I’ve spent my 18th birthday in darkness, with bombs flying over my head. So believe me, I know what this horror means.
I sympathy with 9/11 victims on a human level, but I don’t see it as any special event that deserved more attention than, say, Norway shooting. Norway shooting was all over media and it was rightfully seen as a huge tragedy. But nobody expected the whole world to see this as one of the history altering events or to universally divide time before this and after this. I understand this was a great American tragedy with a great social and political impact. But key word here is “American”. I don’t see why the whole world had to see it as a world changing event.
Americans don’t have a clue what is like to have a war in their own territory. The only thing America knows are sporadic attacks such as Pearl Harbor or 9/11. The only war the was fought in America happened a long time ago it’s considered history. For the rest of the world, having war near you in your life time (or your parent’s lifetime) is a reality. You just know there’s this possibility in your lifetime, and you grow up listening your grandparents telling you what was like when they had to run away because of the bombing and the Nazis and what not.
With this frame of mind, the most powerful nation in the world going into a state of shock because of an one day attack does seem confusing. I guess Americans were sheltered the way the rest of us aren’t. I guess you were raised to believe this sort of stuff simply can’t happen in America, while the rest of us know this sort of stuff can happen where we live. So I guess this is where the shock came from. Also, many Americans are completely clueless about their country’s foreign policy and many approve military interventions around the world so to them, I guess, the attack came out of nowhere. For the rest of us, it didn’t come as a surprise (you could tell something like this would happen sooner or later).
So I’m sorry for not seeing the victims of 9/11 (some of them were from my country, btw) as different than any other victims of these horrible crimes. Or for not seeing the attack on America as more horrible on itself than any other attack on another nation. I understand Americans are upset about it and that they see 9/11 as a very important day in their history… But the key word is “their”. No need to drag the rest of the world in it or expect that this date have the same significance all around the world.
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Parfum Bleu,
I never said it wasn’t horrible. Many people died. But if wasn’t more horrible than what happens frequently all around the world. And it wasn’t more horrible because it happened in America.
Don’t get me wrong, it’s not LESS horrible because it happened in America and I don’t think these people (or Americans in general) deserved it… But nobody ever does, and that’s the point.
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Sam,
It’s very late and I’m about to turn in. I’m a bit tired and make a lot of typing errors when I’m tired and so will keep this brief.
Thank you for your post. It’s appreciated. I never understood or agreed with Bush’s war on Iraq. It’s been said that he was after Saddam as a courtesy to his father Bush Senior — who couldn’t finish what he started as he was not re-elected to a second term.
I prefer that the US minded its business here and never went to war or meddled in the affairs of other nations, so for anyone to lay blame at the feet of the citizens of any country for the dirt carried out by the governments is beyond me.
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Im just saying, some non-blacks are tattle-tellers. Whenever they feel like they were taken by a Black, they cry wolf – and side with the Whites – (“Reverse Racism”)
Instant gratification feigning Justice-,especially, in an election year (like 2012), is nothing more than suicide-murder.
R.I.P. to T.M.
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*I mean – PSUEDO- (“Reverse Racism”), of course.
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What if Trayvon acted like this woman http://www.youtube.com/watch?&v=PdUwdtvQS4E when confronted by Zimmerman?
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No one did that. All that’s been pointed out is that 9/11 is not the sole tragedy ever happened in the 21st century. Far greater loss of lives has been ignored or brushed aside while 9/11 is being played over and over again (to cause further loss of lives).
It’s only asked of people in America that they open the Atlas and find out that there are other countries in the world with great tragedies. In Iraq a million people have been killed. Thanks to US bombings and sanctions children in Iraq are born with horrible deformities. Cancer has risen to alarming levels in Iraq. Look at Afghanistan. When you’re talking tragedies, do so with a balance. It is just as hurtful as when slavery or the Amerindian genocide is downplayed.
Deformities in children: http://stgvisie.home.xs4all.nl/VISIE/extremedeformities.html
And 9/11? Have a look at what this ex-CIA official has to say http://dissidentvoice.org/Aug06/Christison14.htm
whatreallyhappened.com is a good place to find out more, plus numerous others.
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AnglesandDimensions
Careful now … LOL .. Shock therapy might not be the best way to wake up the zombie-like mind controlled sheeple who’s been fed a steady diet of diversionary buffoonery like: dumbed downed schools, sports, fashion, talent shows, reality TV, soaps, Hollywood flicks, celebrity gossip, managed NEWS and Star-Bucks coffee. : ))
I doubt they’re capable of handling the TRUTH regarding what really happened, before, and on, that fateful day.
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*shakes head* whatever we conspiracy theorists say about this will come as a shock to the herd.
P.S. I know Ron Paul’s liberalization brand of politics is utter nonsense, but the RP supporter websites are a good source to find out stuff about 9/11, hence the website WRH. Just in case.
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I NEVER said innocent Americans should die because they were Americans or because of their government’s wrongdoing. I come from a culture where innocent people were brutally punished and satanized because of their government’s wrongdoings and I’d never support this kid of behavior.
That being said, no, I wasn’t surprised by 9/11. Just like I’m not surprised that a white (or whatever) guy goes free after killing a teen. It doesn’t mean I support the murder. I just wasn’t surprised. And I bet nobody here was. That’s what I’m talking about.
Furthermore, pardon me for knowing what is like to live in a place (like it’s majority of Earth, sadly) where bombings, war and this horror is a reality in living people’s memory. No American is guilty for not knowing this and no American is guilty for being surprised by 9/11, but this is a sad reality most world has to face several times in a century or so. I don’t think the fact it happened in America makes it any more shocking or more tragic. A human life is a human life.
PS- When I mentioned “two collapsed buildings” I referred to the material loss, not human victims. Americans died in multiple wars over the years, but they never had a war on their territory and they hardly know what is like to have their country trashed to pieces. All they had is a bombing of a military base and 9/11 twin tower collapse (correct me if I’m wrong about other material loss). I’m sorry, but that’s not enough to know what is like to have a war on your own territory and your country trashed in bombs and what not. To treat it as such is confusing for me.
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I meant to say:
Just like I’m not surprised that a white (or whatever) guy goes free after killing a BLACK teen.
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Well, the Pentagon was badly damaged, and there was the loss of four planes, and some additional buildings in the vicinity of the WTC…
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Sorry for oversimplifying.
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Um, as far as I’m concern, 9/11 wasnt the worst tragedy for New York. Don’t you know that ground that very same ground was sacred ground long before 9/11. Slaves were buried there be know one talks about that.
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Abagond:
Why do you and other black liberals keep blaming republicans for all of our problems? Black people have been in bed with democrats for 50+ years and counting. It doesn’t matter how many republican presidents have been in office. DC isn’t the only game in town, what about the state legislatures, county boards, city boards, etc. Our people have been supporting bs policies thanks in large part to democrats. All the hate that has been forced upon republicans in this country simply because they wanted common sense government is insane to me. And, many of us wonder why they don’t court our vote? Politics is business, not a popularity contest. Both parties are imperfect when it comes to black folk, but, which party gives us the best chance to prosper in this country? In my opinion, the GOP gives us the best shot at realizing the “American Dream.” As it relates to 9/11, our government dropped the ball. Clinton and his administration has the most blame. Al Qaeda launched multiple attacks against our country for years during Clinton’s time in office, and nothing was done to stop further attacks. The FBI and CIA didn’t communicate with each other, which allowed the 9/11 hijackers to fly under the radar of law enforcement. Bush can’t be blamed for 9/11, democrats have blood on their hands. Dealing with the issue of crime and violence, Which party is in bed with Lucifer? Democrats, of course. Come on Abagond, they support the killing of unborn babies, they defend Al Qaeda and other terrorist groups, they support hollywood and their obsession with horror flicks, gangsta-rap, etc. America was founded in bloodshed, this reality we can’t overlook. Violence begets violence, none of what we see should be a surprise to anyone. Blackmen running around killing their own people in cold blood, and which party do 99.9% of violent black males support?…The Democrats! Think black people, Think!!!
Tyrone
MindScape
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@Tyrone
Thank you for being realistic however I don’t think Abagond was trying to blame the Republicans for problems in the Black community. However I do agree with your statement on this: Which party is in bed with Lucifer? Democrats, of course. Come on Abagond, they support the killing of unborn babies, they defend Al Qaeda and other terrorist groups, they support hollywood and their obsession with horror flicks, gangsta-rap, etc. America was founded in bloodshed, this reality we can’t overlook. Violence begets violence, none of what we see should be a surprise to anyone. Blackmen running around killing their own people in cold blood, and which party do 99.9% of violent black males support?…The Democrats! Think black people, Think!!!
I am not a Republican or Democrat because I think both parties contributed to the recession we are in today.
And the problems in the Black community is all on us Blacks because we are the ones who destroyed our own community. Don’t blame Whites for everything at all because not everything that goes wrong with Blacks is their fault because most of them can care less about Black people. We are the ones who disrespect each other and call our women(I am a Sista) bitches and hoes.We are the ones that lead Black men to dating outside of their races in high numbers because a lot of us Sistas just can’t keep it together. Black on Black crime is high. Most Black women are raising children by themselves and no husband is around. I can go on and on. But the truth is Black America is very divided and we need to be united.
Trayvon Martin’s case really told me that us Blacks should reunite and fight the racist ”justice” system because they might let that evil man who shot Trayvon free. George Zimmerman better go to jail for what he did.
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And as for 9/11, I think it should have been prevented I am so sorry that I went off of task.
@Abagond
I am sorry I went of of task. I didn’t mean to. I feel so stupid for dooing so because I am so upset about the Trayvon Martin case.
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I see your point abagond. But the American murder rate is spread out over a year, and it is spread out over a country of 300 million.
Yes, America has one of the highest, if not THE highest, murder rates among first world nations. And yes, American society is fraying around the edges and crumbling at the cornerstones due to economic decline, government neglect and systemic failures of policy and political culture.
There are many significant differences between 9/11 and the American murder toll.
First, no one really knows what to do about the high murder rate in America, or even about the identified root causes, or else there is a lack of political will to do what needs to be done due to disagreements about causes, solutions, or in some cases denial of the existence of a serious problem (which in reality is a denial of the existence of a problem that effects middle-class and upper-class people).
By contrast, there was a simple and easy solution to a terrorist attack like 9/11, an attack which had clearly been committed by one single malevolent organization or alliance of organizations. And that solution was “Who ever is responsible for this, we kill. We find out who did this, we mobilize the necessary military resources, and we kill the fuck out of them, wherever they may be.” And of course that is exactly what happened.
We can debate about whether the “War on Terror” (including the Iraq War) has been a success or made America safer (it hasn’t on both counts, it is impossible to defeat a tactic, we have wasted trillions of dollars trying to force democracy and Western values on people who aren’t ready for them, and Islamic radicalism is probably stronger now).
However, what you can not argue against is that the real al-Qaida, a militant fundamentalist Islamic terrorist organization led by Osama bin Laden, a group which anyone who isn’t a conspiracy nut will acknowledge committed the 9/11 attacks, has been decimated. Yes new cells calling themselves “al-Qaida” have sprung up across the Middle East, but they are not the real al-Qaida, the organization which was based in Afghanistan and had the capability and expertise and fanatical willpower/crazed bravado to attack the most powerful nation in the world like they did. They thought they would be safe in the mountains of Afghanistan, under the protection fo the Taliban. They weren’t. They got F-ed in the A by the U.S. military. They have been systematically hunted down. Osama bin Laden got shot in the face by the Navy SEALS. And there was no lack of political will to do this, because they were foreign bastards who had attacked American civilians on American soil, and had inflicted major casualties.
Now, as you said abagond, the casualties of 9/11 are actually overshadowed every year by the American murder rate. Sure it’s spread out over time and geography, it’s not one single malevolent group committing the violence, it’s not foreigners attacking America, but it’s still a greater number of American lives being snuffed out by a trend that should reversible. But what response comparable to the “War on Terror” would be appropriate against American citizens? It was so easy to say “al-Qaida and Osama bin Laden did it, the Taliban is harbouring them, let’s bomb them til there’s nothing but a red mist left. And then we send in the ground troops to rape that fucking mist. Their foreigner America-haters, not humans.” Really, it was easy to say that, and believe it. Violence solves everything, right? Well in this case I think the U.S. government was right to fuck up al-Qaida’s shit. Lets anyone who was thinking of committing terrorist attacks against the U.S. realize that we will hunt them down if they do it.
But again, there is no solution as morally and politically easy as “let’s kill the foreigners responsible” for the American murder rate. You can’t bomb poor American neighbourhoods and then send in the ground troops. Not only because it would look bad and would be morally wrong, but because it would be ineffective.
I think what you’re saying is that we are spending ridiculous amounts of money on the military trying to prevent terrorist attacks, when we really need to be spending money trying to prevent America from falling apart at the seams, from plummeting ever further into a pit of economic and social inequality between the increasingly less numerous and increasingly more powerful and well protected HAVES, and the increasingly more numerous, less powerful, and less protected HAVE NOTS.
In the dominant American political culture, which is an irrational conservative (and white) one, the preference is for immediate reaction. America is still reactionary. Do something that is quick and simple and ruthless and easy to understand and you don’t have to think about it or change your views on anything.
So the response to a murder in America is “Oh no, somebody has been murdered. Whoever the murderer is is a horrible, evil person. He took a human life, now if we can figure out who the murderer is and prove it in a court of law, he get’s life in prison or the death penalty.” Now this isn’t a bad reaction. Murders are tragic and murderers do have to be put in prison to protect other citizens from further murders committed by that person.”
But there is no real curiousity as to “Why did that person murder someone?” Why is that person a horrible, evil person? Why is this so common in a supposedly civilized nation? There are no easy answers to those kinds of question, and many people consider it not worth the asking. “Who cares how he became that way? He’s bad and now he get’s what he deserves. Some people are just bad.” Some people are just bad I think, but I think far more murderers and criminals are a product of their environment. Real life crime and murder has been normalized for them. This is why middle class kids, of whatever race, are a whole lot less likely to commit a crime violent or not, than poor kids.
I don’t fully understand the psychology behind being more prone to murder because you grew up poor, but my guess is that a hard life breeds hard people. Being poor is hard. It is often desperate, which leads to people willing to do things comfortable people wouldn’t. Like taking the risks involved in crime, theft, drug-dealing, and violence, and murder. It often stifles intellectual growth (after all, your parents can’t afford to send you to college, why read books or try in school?), which leads to many ignorant and stupid and small-minded people. And I think you normally have to have something wrong in your head to kill another human being, unless it is in the immediate service of protecting yourself or another human being, or if you are a soldier fighting enemy troops. So stupid people are one group that is more likely to commit murders. Being poor is frustrating and stressful, which makes for angry people and in some cases seriously mentally unwell people. Anger and mental illness are definite reasons why you might be more prone to murder. And lastly, poverty means that people have to work harder. Yes, believe it or not, most poor people in America work their asses off, harder than any middle class person does in an office or in a managerial position. But this means that many parents don’t have as much time and energy to keep their kids in line, or to raise them well, or to pay for activities, not to mention just living in a poor neighbourhood where drugs and theft are natural responses to poverty for some. Which means poor kids do worse in school (less parental help), there are more pitfalls in their neighbourhoods (boredom, gangs, drugs), and their parents don’t keep them in line so they are more free to make stupid choices as young people are wont to do. But where a poorly parented middle class kid might become a Goth or something, a poorly parented poor kid becomes a gang member. And murders often follow.
And of course since black people are historically disadvantaged and discriminated against in America, not to mention having their original African cultures destroyed by the process of slavery, replaced in slavery with a subservient, defeated, forcibly illiterate culture. So modern African-American culture has essentially had to build itself from nothing in a way I can’t really compare with any other situation in recorded human history. And although blacks are less discriminated against than in the past (like things have come a long way from the 1960s), there is still a ton of discrimination and latent racism. And the combination of slave culture persisting in the ghettoes for decades, and of persistent if lessened white racism and prejudice towards black people (not to mention conservative white resistance to government policies designed to help black people, predicated on the belief that America is fair now, all black people should have pulled themselves up by their bootstraps by now, what is wrong with them? The past is the past, it’s not like social problems are ever passed down from parents to children, from generation of black people to generation of black people in many poor neighbourhoods.
^^^ But you see, most Americans don’t even give as much thought to the issue as I just did. And I have barely scratched the surface, summarized some broad ideas, and I’m not even sure about what I’m saying. Most Americans just figure “Murders are inevitable. Put the murderer in prison, that will alleviate the issue through deterrence. What, another murder? Well murders are inevitable. Let’s try relying on prison as a deterent again. What, another murder…?” And so on ad infinitum.
They don’t want to admit that there is anything wrong in America. “The status quo is fine unless it hurts me or someone I know. I don’t know those poor people, those black people. Let them solve their own problems. They should work harder, be smarter, so that they won’t be poor. America is fair. Inequality is good. Don’t tax me more to try to solve these poor fuckers’ problems. Don’t change social policies to try to solve these problems either. Ineffective, ignorance-based social policies are an American tradition, and all traditions are good. If the poor try to democratically elect politicans with integrity who might spend money addressing the problems of the poor and try to implement sensible social policies to help the poor, well shit CLASS WARFARE! SOCIALISM! COMMUNISM! MAXIMIZING PROFITS IS THE AMERICAN WAY! DON’T PUNISH SUCCESS! AMERICA!!! IS!!! FAIR!!! THERE IS NOTHING WRONG! NOTHING NEEDS TO CHANGE! NOTHING SHOULD EVER CHANGE! THE POOR CAN’T VOTE FOR POLICIES THAT FAVOUR THEM! NOTHING BAD WILL EVER HAPPEN IF WE STAY ON OUR PRESENT COURSE OF ALLOWING UNBRIDLED CAPITALISM ALONGSIDE UNBRIDLED SOCIAL AND CIVIL DECAY!!! AYN RAND MOTHERFUCKERS! If the poor don’t like it, they can talk to the police forces and prison system that thankfully stand between me and them. God Bless America.”
Sorry, I got a little carried away there.
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Murder is murder – lets call this for what it is and I don’t understand the desire to make this any more complicated then it really is
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[…] “The Tragedy of 9/11″ by Abagond […]
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I think 9/11 gets overblown. Any civilian death is important. More civilians have been killed in the Middle East, from this War on Terror. More civilians were killed due to the Hiroshima and Nagasaki bombings (and many others faced birth defects and etc. for generations). I hate when people try to act like 1 American civilian’s life is worth more than 1 non-American civilian’s life. War should be fought amongst people who actually want to participate. I don’t give a sh** where someone’s from, or what they look like. That doesn’t affect my sympathy. We’re all humans
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One tragedy follwing 911:
Those firefighters and people who went in to help in NYC, who did their job despite the fact that every single guy knew that some of them will die there, and many of them did die while trying to help others… They were treated like dirt by the officials later on, after the hoopla had died down.
They had a hard time to get health services, they did not get funding for their health problems, they had to fight to get the care they deserved etc. This is how the officials treated them after the tv cameras went a way. That was a travesty, shameful after show.
Like one of those fire fighters later said on one interview:
– I don’t need any praisals, I just did my work down there, but I would really like to get some help for my health problems.
I don’t know how it ended, did they get what they really deserved, or where did the money go. I hope those guys who lost their health that day while trying to helpo others were taken care eventually.
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Without really wanting to get into a discusion about this , I just want to say I totaly hear what you are saying Parfum Bleu…
And excellent point, Sam
I think I agree with some of what you said, agooyers, but its a long post to keep up with
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@Adeen Mckenzie
Appreciate the feedback on this issue sista. It’s life and death in every sense of the word. A lot of black folk are dying on this planet because they can’t distinguish the good guys from the bad guys. As black people, we beat up on the good guys and applaud the bad guys, as in the case of al qaeda and radical islam in general. Thugs and gangstas are put on a pedestal in our community, but we diss the good sistas and brothas at the same time…Makes No Sense! As it relates to politics and violence, democrats are in bed with the “Dark Side.” They support ideology and policies that push blackmen into the arms of Lucifer…Real Talk! Yes, a lot of republicans are quick to give cops the benefit of the doubt, and they’re wrong for doing so. As a conservative blackman, i have no problem admitting this ugly truth about those on my side. Republicans are not conservatives, conservatives are not republicans, and libertarians are neither. I’m a fan of Hannity, but he doesn’t speak for all conservatives. I respect Larry Elder, but he doesn’t speak for all black conservatives. Race and violence in this country is very real, it’s not a game. The Treyvon Martin tragedy is an example of what i’m talking about. Democrats don’t care if blacks kill each other. They’ve pumped up this injustice because the suspect is white and the victim is black. Republicans don’t want a rush to judgement because they’ve taught to downplay race at all costs, despite the obvious facts of the case. Ignoring race in totality is just as bad as the other extreme. White republicans and democrats who try to rationalize cold-blooded murder are full of s**t and they know it. That being the case, liberals are still the greater evil in my mind.
Tyrone
MindScape
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F.B. meme
R.I.P. the 2996 Americans who died in 9/11.
R.I.P. the 1,455,590 innocent Iraqis who died during the U.S. invasion for something they didn’t do.
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