Commenter Chris, who says, “I am a Caucasian male age 19. My girlfriend of two years is African American”, asked me the following questions. He said, “Please do NOT answer these questions with facts, I’d just like your opinion.”
1. First of all, I find that when you talk about “white people” you imply that all of us are racist. Do you believe on a personal level that all white people are racist?
I think 95% of White Americans are racist, meaning that they look down on blacks and other people of colour and do not see them as fully human. Only in more extreme cases does it lead to open hatred or violence. Their culture was soaked in racism in slave days and has changed only somewhat since then.
2. I hate those who hurt my ancestors [Chris has the blue eyes of the Nazi German guard who raped his great grandmother in a death camp], but I do not hate their descendants. So, tell me, if my ancestors had enslaved your ancestors, would you hate me too? Would you hate me simply because I was born in to that family? Even though I didn’t do anything?
You are part of what in effect is a criminal organization based on skin colour. Just because its crimes may have been bigger in the past does not mean they have stopped or that you no longer benefit from them.
America will never be set right till whites pay some kind of meaningful reparations to blacks and native Americans. Until then whites will continue to be screwed up and remain racist because deep down they know their lives are a fraud. Racism lives on, continuing to damage the lives of people of colour, because it is a morphine drip for the souls of white people.
As to hatred:
3. What I don’t understand is how you can call “white people” racist (which is a stereotype) yet, you do not consider yourself to be racist against white people? You obviously dislike the white people of the world, but isn’t that racist?
First, I am racist. Second, I try not to hate White Americans: I try to hate the sin, not the sinner. That most of them are racist is not mere stereotype: it has been proved by studies. Look into the work of Eduardo Bonilla-Silva. The IAT shows the same.
4. I’d like to know your personal opinion of interracial couples.
The older I get the more uneasy I become about interracial relationships. Mainly because as time goes on I see more and more how profoundly racist most white people are. And even for the person of colour there are often unexamined issues of self-hatred. If your girlfriend bad mouths black men, for example, that is a bad sign. On the other hand, life is way too short and true love far too rare to let something like race get in the way. Interracial relationships between people of colour have fewer issues and I think are mostly harmless.
See also:
you think reparations will stop racism Abagond? And which white people would be paying the reparations? And in what form should these reparations be paid? In fact, if you haven’t already, maybe you should do a post addressing the above questions. Let’s have a plan.
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“America will never be set right till whites pay some kind of meaningful reparations to blacks and native Americans …”
AMEN!!!!
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Meaningful restitution may not stop racism but it would certainly help to offset some or much of the harm that racism causes.
Who should pay?
The US Treasury, those corporations – companies – descendents of individuals that benefited from the slave trade, Jim Crow and the present day prison-industrial complex, companies who routinely pay people of color less than whites for no other reason than they are POC.
Banks should also pay reparations – for red-lining, predator loans and other despicable practices. All those agencies involved in secret experimenting on people of color as well as every city or (sundown) town in America that was involved in banishing black people. That’s just for starters.
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Racism affects more than America. The PLANET will never be set right until White People collectively agree to STOP being White (or else are STOPPED), and as such, stop hoarding, exploiting and victim blaming their merry way thru century after century of unsustainable economic gain at the expense of the 80% plus majority of persons on the planet, conveniently classified as NOT white.
I don’t believe reparations would ever work because it simply feeds into the aforementioned system of economic exploitation. “Well, here’s money for your troubles Black and Brown Team. Sorry you lost The Game. Try to catch up now!” For the PLANET to heal, Racism itself as an economic institution will have to end. Not its merely ending as social policy or cultural bias. In fact these and all other manifestations of Racism are impossible to end without ending the Economy of Race period.
That said Racism is not the only system of oppression economic or otherwise, and it is truth that ALL oppressive systems and institutions support racism and vice versa. So setting the world right is that much harder to achieve. Still worth trying tho.
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Great post.
Just my two cents:
1. Although I don’t believe all white people think they are better than black people, I believe many I HAVE ENCOUNTERED personally and professionally, do. In my experience, racism usually comes out when people feel comfortable enough to say things because they are around you a lot, and believe that you’re ‘not like the rest of them.’ Sometimes I call them on it, other times I just shake my head. The funny thing is, racists don’t see their comments and views as racist. Their views (a lot of which are based on stereotypes and the media), are just facts to them.
2. I agree that whites benefit from the system, even when they don’t realize it. You’re truly at an advantage when society at large sees you as “normal” and judges you for who you are. White privilege definitely exists, especially for white males. That Louis CK vid that is on this blog nails it. I know he’s a stand-up comic who uses satire, but what he says rings so true it’s scary.
3. After much soul-searching over the years, I don’t believe I’m a racist. I don’t believe the group to which I belong is superior to any other, nor do I believe that it is inferior. Have I ever in my life been guilty of stereotyping? Yes.
4. I have no problems with interracial relationships/marriages, or with the offspring that results from such unions. I hate it when people (mostly white) say, ‘But what about the kids?’ People have the right do love/like who they want and to live (in peace) accordingly. It does bother me when people bash members of the opposite sex of their own race. Even when this occurs, it’s still people’s choice and their business.
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Reparations ain’t gonna happen. Even it it did, racism would still be alive and kickin,’ and there would be even more animosity (if that were possible). I know the times we live in are different, but it’s interesting how no one seemed to mind reparations being paid to the Japanese during the internments of WWII.
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Excellent post.
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nom de plume – the Japanese had leverage. they were very powerful and a serious threat – hence the reparations
matari – oh yeah because america is going to love that in these economic times. companies are not about to pay shite. individuals? and what if these individual descendants are barely able to pay their rent these days?
companies who indulge in unfair pay? i feel the feminist inside me about to come out with this one.
This is not going to happen. It doesn’t even make sense anymore. The blacks who are living in ghettos and have been put at a disadvantage ever since the slave-era and institutional racism ever since would do better by having their communities funded better by the government.
The rich (of which the majority are certainly white anyway) SHOULD pay higher taxes and spread their wealth. But that is probably not going to happen either, because the rich are more powerful than your government. They dictate what goes down. If black america wants someone on their side, then black america needs to start working on climbing up that ladder of wealth. If you can’t beat them..
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“matari – oh yeah because america is going to love that in these economic times. companies are not about to pay shite. individuals? and what if these individual descendants are barely able to pay their rent these days?
…
This is not going to happen.”
_______________________
Well of course companies and individuals AREN’T ABOUT TO PAY. If they were reparation minded, payment would have already happened.
Please look again at the question I was answering. It was WHO SHOULD pay, not WHO CAN pay, restitution, damages, reparations.
The PAYMENT of reparations was never about a good economy versus a bad economy. From the days of the 40 acres and a mule promise made to recently “released” slaves, it’s been simply a matter of flat out refusal to do the right thing, AND enforcing the zero sum principle that whites will never permit blacks to be on an equal socioeconomic footing with them, even if it hurts them.
Do notice that even though the US govt is drowning in debt, there’s still enormous waste, loss and inefficient spending going on. Then there’s deliberate misappropriation of funds and the black hole of military and secret govt black ops expenditures. The US may be hurting, but it ain’t broke – yet. They’re still magically afloat for however long that lasts. If “they” wanted to (which “they” don’t) “they” could waste a few trillions paying restitution to blacks and native people. People die, but their wealth lives on, compounded and multiplied. America should pay those unpaid wages and damages. If Obama’s former minister (J. Wright) is correct, America will pay. One way, or another.
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@Proud C G
“Look at white privilege that way: A little girls birthday party and maybe it will help you understand…”
I think “deep down” (as someone we all know here is prone to say) they do understand this privilege – which is why they’re not likely to end it – fight against it en masse – and corroborate with blacks and other poc to form a meaningful coalition to come against the 5% for the BENEFIT of the 95% anytime soon.
Have you read Derrick Bell’s book, Faces at the Bottom of the Well?
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1. I know some american WM, and I know some of the attitudes. Not sure of the percentage, but in general I’d say I agree (I’m European).
2. I agree only if the individual person (or a group) feel superior because of their ancestry and/or current position. I cannot accept though, that people should be blamed of the sins of their father and forefathers. They should be made aware of their history though. And if they deny their responsibility to act against that, then I throw them to the wolves.
3. Hmm. One form of racism is no better than any other.
4. I’m all for IR relationships, provided if it is just about two hones people who respect and love their own as well the other person’s history and ancestry. Mutual respect. I would definitely be turned of by BW who looks down on BM. Love should see no boundries and it’s a privat and personal choice no one else
Very complex things, these. The older I get, the less I know, I think.
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@ proudchocolategirl
Very good analogy.
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Great response Abagond, and excellent analogy, Proud.
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I don’t understand why you claim to be racist, Abagond. Yeah, whites benefit from the world their ancestors have developed, but they’re not responsible for it. people are only responsible for themselves; the actions they carry out in their own lives. no one can go back in time to stop slavery from happening. no one can go back in time to stop europeans from taking over various populations of people in countries around the world. what we have to do now is accept the past, and move on. nothing anyone says will change the past, so why not try to make a better future for the world, instead.
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Racism lives on, continuing to damage the lives of people of colour, because it is a morphine drip for the souls of white people….”
Real Talk.
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“Racism lives on, continuing to damage the lives of people of colour…”
True. I saw a special on TV not too long ago about a Native American reservation in South Dakota. Like many reservations, alcoholism and domestic abuse are all too common. Why? Because Native Americans are a bunch of drunk jerks who beat their wives and girlfriends? I think not.
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Racism will never cease to exist.
Unfortunately.
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@ Dee:
“what we have to do now is accept the past, and move on.”
—-
Easier said than done. The whole thing has deep psychological effects that have lasted for centuries. Also, it doesn’t help that people are still experiencing racism…that is often subtle and comes with a smile. Have things gotten a lot better over time? Yes. Is the playing field still way too uneven? Hell yes.
I agree that Abagond doesn’t appear to be racist. A racist believes that his race is superior to others. I haven’t seen him express this in any of his writings.
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@ Nom De Plum
Agree
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@dee
“Yeah, whites benefit from the world their ancestors have developed, but they’re not responsible for it. people are only responsible for themselves; the actions they carry out in their own lives. no one can go back in time to stop slavery from happening. no one can go back in time to stop europeans from taking over various populations of people in countries around the world. what we have to do now is accept the past, and move on. nothing anyone says will change the past, so why not try to make a better future for the world, instead.”
Maybe not, but whites still, by and large, hold a great deal of contempt for blacks. The election of Barack Obama helped proved that. Hate crimes still continue. Gentrification still continues. Police brutality still continues. Racism in the media still continues. And so on and so forth.
Yes. No one can go back in time to prevent slavery, and black Americans do accept the past no matter how it’s told and with diverse opinions toward it. However, when you confront whites about that past, the dark, bloody, genocidal past, they freak out because they know how and why things are the way they are, but they prefer to take the drug of privilege to feel good instead. In the end most whites are only concerned about other whites. They may make a better world for them, but it will likely be at the costs of people of color.
The main thing is that the past may be the past but if certain people won’t accept it, history will continue to repeat itself and everyone will end up trapped.
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Dear . . .
How about we start with, I don’t tell you how to be you and you don’t tell me about to me.
From a generic white male please feel free to disregard
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Dear Abagond,
So lets cut to the heart of matter, do you consider black people better then white people?
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LOL….What I find the MOST hilarious about THIS particular website is the multitude of white people that come on here pretending to be black…..Just be yourself and stop trying to fool people….Some of us can see through this smoke and mirrors….It gets old after a while….I have to laugh.
I must say, I am nore of a lurker now, I just skim through the site then I’m gone.
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Great blog. I’m white. I happen to agree with your comments and responses, but even if I didn’t, I would appreciate your honesty. But also, thank you for writing about so many eclectic interests, both about race and sooo many other things (religion, ethnicity, history, culture, sex, books, politics, science- wow you’re all over the place on here!) I’ve been checking out posts, and I’m now fascinated by your blog. You are a gifted writer, and truly seem like someone impossible to pidgeon-hole (based on all your varied interests). So basically, I’m sort of floored by your blog.
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Abagond,
And what about black man / white woman couples?
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Dee says ” Yeah, whites benefit from the world their ancestors have developed, but they’re not responsible for it. people are only responsible for themselves;”
But you see, they are responsible because they are still continuing the cycle. Their forefather dreams are still being fulfilled and they are fighting tooth and nail to keep it that way.
Here’s another analogy to have a better understanding.
We have three families: Family A( Native Americans), Family B( Blacks), and Family W (Whites). One day family W decides to take a trip to family A’s house. Family W liked the size of the house but didn’t like the inhabitants and felt that they would do a better job if they were the ones that lived there instead. So they went in and killed or kicked Family A out( Most were killed). Then they went over and took some members of Family B to Family A’s house and made Family B work day and night for absolutely nothing. Family B were completely stripped of their identity, their dignity, their family, their culture, and their Humanity, and even their sanity. But despite that, they made the house beautiful and created massive wealth for family W. After that, Family B and the rest of Family A were locked away in chambers in the basement. Fast forward a couple of a hundred years. All of the old family members have died. but we have the descendents. Family B is still stuck in the chambers. Family W is still living the good life upstairs. Family A is basically nonexistent. don’t you think the new descendants of Family W have an obligation to make things right instead of just leaving the huge mess their ancestors left?
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@ Nana & Proud:
Both excellent analogies. Thank you.
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@ Mira:
That is like the kryptonite topic of this blog. Even posting on white women’s tears was bad enough! What a nightmare. But thanks for the reminder. I will have to do it sooner or later.
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Well, as far as I know, these couples are common among the IR couples, so they do deserve some mention.
Also, what if you’re a white woman dating a black man…
… who bad mouths black women?
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I would not write off reparations so quickly. (And yes, I need to do a post on it.)
I remember people telling me that apartheid would never fall, that whites there would never allow it, that it was just a pipe dream. When William Wilberforce wanted to outlaw the slave trade, 80% of Britain’s overseas earnings depended on slave labour. Another supposed pipe dream. In America itself slavery and Jim Crow were both overthrown.
In addition, the American government is quite capable of giving away huge amounts of wealth: the Homestead Act, the GI Bill, tax breaks for mortgages, tax breaks for the rich – even when the country can least afford it! And, like with the GI Bill, you will “make it back in taxes” if done properly (or lose it all in inflation if not).
So reparations are not necessarily politically and economically impossible. Of course it is not going to come out of thin air either.
It would hardly be an instant cure for racism – too much of American culture has been built on racism – but it would remove one of the main reason whites are still racist which would make the remaining issues easier to deal with.
There are no instant cures. The unwinding of American racism will take at least another hundred years, but it is doable.
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@ Abagond
“I would not write off reparations so quickly. ….
……
And, like with the GI Bill, you will “make it back in taxes” if done properly (or lose it all in inflation if not).”
______________________________
I believe anything is possible however unlikely or improbable. But looking at America’s track record and collective selective amnesia regarding history as it pertains to black people, I’m not very optimistic.
I agree with you that America can come up with the money. They came up tremendous amounts of cash to support the continuous invasion of foreign lands, cash for automobile manufacturers, cash for bankers and cash for Wall St. All of this cash came during an economic downturn. (It must be nice having the power to create money out of thin air – and help the rich get even richer – but I digress.)
My question Abagond is, knowing what we know about white people and their zero sum ways regarding blacks, what do you imagine might be the “tipping point” that would motivate the politicians (and those folks running things behind the scene) to actually part with a significant amount of cash for reparations in America’s current and longstanding racial climate?
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This argument that Africans sold each other as slaves also is kind of tiring.
“The viewpoint that “Africans” enslaved “Africans” is obfuscating if not troubling. The deployment of “African” in African history tends to coalesce into obscurantist constructions of identities that allow scholars, for instance, to subtly call into question the humanity of “all” Africans. Whenever Asante rulers sold non-Asantes into slavery, they did not construct it in terms of Africans selling fellow Africans. They saw the victims for what they were, for instance, as Akuapems, without categorizing them as fellow Africans. Equally, when Christian Scandinavians and Russians sold war captives to the Islamic people of the Abbasid Empire, they didn’t think that they were placing fellow Europeans into slavery. This lazy categorizing homogenizes Africans and has become a part of the methodology of African history; not surprisingly, the Western media’s cottage industry on Africa has tapped into it to frame Africans in inchoate generalities allowing the media to describe local crisis in one African state as “African” problem.”
—Dr. Akurang-Parry, Ending the Slavery Blame
Please read this book and numerous other books on slavery. It WAS different! And like Abagond has said SO many times, it does not excuse the European countries that did it! End of!
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@Nana…that explanation is so perfect!
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Given my journey so far, I find your post’s photo selection of the Class of 2011 UW Physical Therapy program highly and inadvertently resonant. It is certainly true, many of these mid-level degree programs leading to 70-100K/year careers, from nurse anesthetist to physical therapist to physician’s assistant do seem to select primarily white students — mostly because there is very little public attention on them, as opposed to law and medical schools. I can assure you, there were at *least* a couple black people who applied to that program that year. When no one’s looking, white people seem to default to racism/white supremacy.
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@JZ:
It’s always refreshing when someone gets it and appreciates the discourse.
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Thanks @ Abagond, Malkia and Bulanik.
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@BadWolf
Dear Abagond,
So lets cut to the heart of matter, do you consider black people better then white people?
Is this what sense you get from this post?
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Easier said than done. The whole thing has deep psychological effects that have lasted for centuries.
This is referred to as ‘Historical Trauma’.
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Bulanik,
@Mira,
I’m not sure what you mean about black men and white women…
Why would Aba consider this to be the kryptonite factor on this blog?
Because there are so many posts about white men and black women. So it only seems fair to talk about other type of IR couples (black men and white women).
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Bulanik,
Oh, sorry, you asked about the kryptonite part. I have no idea exactly, but I guess it’s seen as controversial? I don’t remember what happened in the white women’s tears post. Maybe Abagond should remind us of it.
Frankly, I don’t think white women should be given a pass or defended…
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@ Bulanik
They are more common in America too. I have promised to do a post on it but I fear it would get pretty ugly. To get any idea of how ugly, just look at what writing just about white women’s tears led to in the comments:
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@ Bulanik:
In short, a post like that would turn black commenters on each other and it would not be pretty.
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Well, yeah, it got heated.
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@abagond
“It would hardly be an instant cure for racism – too much of American culture has been built on racism – but it would remove one of the main reason whites are still racist which would make the remaining issues easier to deal with.”
I’m a bit puzzled by this; do you mean that not wanting to give reparations is a *cause* of white racism? I would have thought it was an effect but not a cause… Could you explain it or maybe give a link? Sorry if this is already obvious to everyone else.
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Abagond:
Why are we dancing around the truth? As black people, we continually ask white people why they think and act as they do toward black people. Why do you hate us Mr. Whiteman? Why are you so pretty Ms. Whitewoman? Why do we assume that whites are happy being white? If that was true, whites wouldn’t give a damn’ about black people. They would be too obsessed with themselves to care. However, that’s not the case. Whites make it their bizness to inject themselves into all aspects of black culture. If white is right, Why are they in our face? Whites can’t or won’t answer that simple question. I’ve asked that question on this blog multiple times. How do I feel about it? Honestly, I don’t think the vast majority of whites on this planet will be happy being white, pure or mixed. Blackness Escapes Them. Call me crazy as much as you want, but, much of the conflict that whites have with black people on this planet revolves around the fact that whites aren’t black anymore. They were black a long time ago, but, they’re not black right now, and they hate it…Real Talk! Jealousy is the root of the problem, not whites thinking their better than african people because of color. All of the other stuff is fluff.
Tyrone
Black Eros Movement
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@ Nana:
Excellent analogy!
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Dear Abagaond,
No it’s a question. You admit to being a racist (that’s your problem, not mine) but the origin of the question is in Non De Plume comment:
I agree that Abagond doesn’t appear to be racist. A racist believes that his race is superior to others. I haven’t seen him express this in any of his writings.
So instead of dancing around the issue, let’s get down to the issue.
Additional question: what is the difference between cognitive laziness and racism? Does racisim come from congitive laziness? or is it the other way around.
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I would disagree wholeheartedly with the idea that interracial relationships between people of color are mostly harmless.
First of all, there is a pecking order among poc. Don’t be naive here. It’s also one reinforced by those closer to whiteness–light skinned Hispanics, northern Asians, etc. Watch what happens when and Indian or Chinese American brings home a black man.
Secondly, IR dating between blacks and other poc basically comes down to black men chasing “exotic” women–anything to get away from blackness and black women. You see this constantly reinforced in hip hop videos, where light skinned “exotic” women are increasingly pushed as more desirable than black women.
Here’s a perfect example: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mw7gAApbdeo
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In most cases I don’t agree with interracial relationships between white people and POC.
(POC + POC is fine)
Under the system of white supremacy by default, any white person benefitting from white supremacy is a racist.
Unless they’re anti-racist – John Brown. (And even then if John Brown was to have a black wife it’d still wouldn’t be right, not when black people were still enslaved by white people)
This society hasn’t changed. And I agree, most of the time the POC in the relationship has or is harbouring self hatred.
To me, it’s the equivalent of white people adopting transnationally children of color.
The relationship doesn’t live in a vacuum it’s a part of an unjust world.
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proudchocolategirl:
Blackwomen are the most beautiful women on the planet. Any man with an ounce of truth in him has to acknowledge that fact. There’s no need to recite history, all of us know what took place during slavery and colonization. Blackwomen were violated with impunity by “other” men. Why all the hatred and envy of blackwomen. It’s vital that sistas have a clear understanding of (Racial Construct)…the politics of sex and race. As black people, we’ve never been told the truth about sex and race, allow me to vent. Blackmen are at the top of the sexual pyramid, thus, all women lust the black male. Conversely, blackwomen are at the top of the sexual pyramid, thus, all men lust blackwomen. Black women and men are equal in that regard, if all relevant parties are honest and forthright in their critique. At some point along the way, blackwomen break apart from blackmen, Why? Unlike non-black women, blackwomen only have eyes for blackmen, which distinguishes them from other women. Blackwomen are the only race of women on the planet that truly love their men in every aspect…emotionally, sexually, and spiritually as well. Non-black men know that most blackwomen don’t have a strong desire to lay down with them. Knowing the reality of the situation, they choose not to chase after blackwomen because they don’t think they can compete with blackmen in that regard. This is why whitemen, asian men, and others have a problem celebrating african beauty. If they can’t taste the chocolate-pudding, pink-cookie, pink-chocolate, chocolate-pie, and countless other petnames for chocolate kush, they don’t wanna deal with sistas in that way…Real Talk! As for blackmen, other women have nothing to lose. Whitewomen and other women don’t love their men like blackwomen love blackmen, so, it’s easy for them to jump in bed with a blackman. God gave blackmen all the good stuff, and other men got the scraps. What woman wouldn’t want to have an oversized chocolate bar between her thighs every night. Blackmen know they have the upper-hand in IR relationships, and those who partake in the swirl take full advantage of that fact. All well and good…Not So Fast! Yes, blackmen can have any race of woman on the planet, but that doesn’t mean it’s the best outcome for blackmen and black people in general. A lot of blackmen say that their biracial child is black…Wrong! They’re child is half-black. There is no 100% guarantee that a biracial child will identify as black, it’s a 50/50 proposition at best. No blackwoman, and a mixed child that doesn’t see themselves as black, a net loss of -2 for black people. Are blackmen willing to swallow that bitter pill? Black people lose on both sides. This is why I don’t support inter-racial marriage, because, blackness is either diluted or destroyed. “Wasted Blackness” is a terrible thing in my eyes. These are issues that a lot of blackmen don’t think about beforehand. We get so caught up in validating sexual stereotypes that we lose sight of the fact that blackwomen are the glue that binds everything together. Blackwomen can’t be second to any woman, and without blackwomen and black love, there is no blackman and black people…Bottomline!!!
Tyrone
Black Eros Movement
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@ Ann
Your view reminds me of Neely Fuller’s. He say’s that in a racist society black people should never have sexual intimacy with ANY white person for reasons you and a couple of other recent posters have stated. Logically speaking, this makes sense: “The relationship doesn’t live in a vacuum it’s a part of an unjust world.”
Imagine being married to a white person only to eventually discover that she/he has some “typical” views (on some level) that mirrors or is similar to that of the white woman in this video:
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@ BadWolf
I do not think black people are any better than white people. On my blog I say plenty of bad things about white people and little that is bad about blacks but that is only because the American culture I live in demonizes black people night and day and pounds “white is right” into everyone’s head. If I knew all my readers lived in Mongolia, say, I would be more “balanced”. But in fact most are Americans so I have to write against message.
That is at the conscious level. Subconsciously I do favour blacks over whites, or at least that is what the tests say.
Racism is not caused by cognitive laziness. It is far worse than that: whites want to feel good about themselves, their society and their place in it and its place in history. Racism makes all that possible, but it is lipstick on a pig.
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@Abagond:
“whites want to feel good about themselves, their society and their place in it and its place in history.”
—-
The complexion, if you will, of America is changing. There are more black, brown, and yellow people than ever, and many feel threatened by this. White birth rates are declining, and there is a man of color in the White House (at least for now). ‘We want our country back,’ a statement that is often exclaimed in political circles, is very telling. A lot of the vitriol and race-baiting rhetoric out there is rooted in fear. Fear of being outnumbered and fear of a subsequent shift in power. It’s interesting that the tides are turning. The West has long thought of itself as the “be all and end all.” Now, brown (India, Brazil) and yellow (China) countries are rising up. The world economy is interconnected, but China, America’s largest creditor, has managed to steer clear of the financial catastrophe that hit Europe, and to a lesser degree, the U.S. Now, people from non-Western parts of the world may be beginning to feel good about THEMSELVES, THEIR societies and THEIR places in history. It will be interesting to see how it all plays out.
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@ Sarah W
It is both cause and effect.
If I ran over your dog and killed him the only way we are going to get past that is if I somehow make good on the damage done. But if instead I say, “Get over it”, “It’s not my fault”, “Why do you keep bringing up that damn dog?” and so on, then neither of us will ever truly get past it and our relationship will be poisoned.
Reparations and racism are like that.
By not paying reparations or somehow make good on the damage done whites must defend the past in their minds and the only way to do that and still think of oneself as a good person is to become a believing racist.
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@ proudchocolategirl
I have never ever said that I am unaffected by American racism. Unlearning it has taken years and years and I am hardly done. When I say “I am racist” that is just what I mean.
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“You’re not completely unaffected by the perception that Blackness is inferior either. A lot of Black people have self hatred.”
No doubt about it, white supremacy affects EVERYONE in some way or manner. Whether it’s self-hate, self-doubt, extreme self-interest or whatever negative other “self” issue … it’s impossible to live IN this type of racist culture and remain unaffected.
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Thanks for the explanation, Abagond, I think I’m beginning to understand it. Kind of like the reverse of the Benjamin Franklin effect.
As a white liberal I always knew that racism was Bad. But the kind of Bad thing that you don’t talk about, which prevents any kind of nuanced understanding. And I believed that my mainly-white teachers and friends and society weren’t Bad. So when I saw (a few of) the effects of racism, I had to find some other way to expain them, and many of those explanations somehow blamed the effects on black people or black culture, hence making me more racist. It’s a ridiculous cycle and only now I’ve accepted that I am racist can I make any progress at all.
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This blog gives me the impression of being well-read, which partly disappoints me by both the posts and the commentaries (Though I adore this Tyrone character.) I admire that the blog seems to be about a writer honing his craft, but it disappoints me to read, especially from the long-time follower proudchocolategirl, that the blogger disrespects Black women. The links to past posts were helpful to coming to this conclusion. Still, my reasoning for reading every comment and some of the posts, was the encouragement of interracial relationships. I can tell that Abagond is a Black man who speaks toward the unloving ‘nature/nurture’ of White people. So why, I ask, Abagond, do you encourage these unloving people upon the people we love? Why do you at one point admit 95% of Whites ‘racist’–that ‘r-word’ that brings people to tears–yet say that it’s harmless to marry and have children with one.
As to that question of whether Whites inherit their parent’s problems. I want to say but one thing: Who did your parents raise you to be like White person? My parent or your own? And if I do not like your parent, why should I like you?
Not that White folk care if you like them. lol.
Hotep, Abagond. Thanks Tyrone. And proudchocolategirl, thanks very much!
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Inregards to natives and drinking etc…..isn’t it kind of racist to assume that all other cultures in America’s problems are “only” due to white people and have no potential for innate flaws on their own?
Why can’t people of native descent be belligerent drunks that beat their wives?
After all different cultures have different flaws and seem to focus more heavily on different crimes.
As for native people being non-existent; aren’t they actually pretty close to the numbers they were at before europeans showed in North America?
Also for a few centuries white people in africa were the largest number of slaves; should their ancestors get reparations?
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So your saying that “only” white american culture has its flaws?
That the native cultures reaction to alcohol is purely white america’s influence and none of what may have been a result of their own?
That they have no level of free agency?
Do you believe that those who were white shouldn’t get reparations for their ancestors having been slaves due to what just the color of their skin?
Or are you disagreeing about how many native americans in the US there are now?
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@abagond
I’d like to thank you for replying to all my questions, your answers are very insightful. I’d also like to say that I unexpectedly learned a lot through reading some of your posts and going through the comments. So, thank you.
@Everyone
Thank you for sharing your views on interracial couples. I have gotten a better understanding of relationship and what it means. I’d also like to announce that I plan to propose to my girlfriend soon. Hope you all have happy holidays!
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Great post and very on-point answers to the questions!
I wouldn’t go so far as to say that ALL white people are racist but I would go so far as to say that the majority (at least 85%) of them feel superior to black people and other people of color.
It is demonstrated in every aspect of society from politics to law enforcement to everyday discriminatory practices in the workplace.
There has always been white privilege and yet so many white people are still unwilling to admit it, but are fully willing to to accept it.
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*sighs* abagond, don’t you ever learn this is just another one of those mole/trolls they blame Afrcans for everything, and not look at themselves for the answer they wan’t it’s like a wife-beater child rapist mentality blame, blame, blame, they can do no wrong sad they are still alive.
my youtube channel: xxphantommasterxx
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I have always been against reparation for the simple fact that I don’t believe it will help black people. But, if reparation will make black people move on, then so be it.
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Pay blacks reparations? As a white I’d be all for that if it would get you to STFU. How much are we talking? You do know that the Fed would just print the money out of thin air right?
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[…] particular interest Abagond writes: America will never be set right till whites pay some kind of meaningful reparations to blacks and […]
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Abagond—
I don’t give a Shiite if you think American will never be set right. Go piss off. More blacks sticking their hands out to get bennies from whitey. Huge majorities of whites are against it and Latinos would be even more opposed to seeing tax money go to that. Never gonna happen. Asians would hardly be thrilled as well. Most of them see the black racket for what it is and are way less sympathetic to blacks than many whites are.
You’re already getting tons of affirmation in various forms, such as the fed. Government require AA among their contractors, expecting it from universities, hiring blacks way out of proportion to their percentage in the population, using disparate impact applied by the EEOC to force AA in big corps and other big organizations. Disparate impact is based on the lie that blacks are just as smart and otherwise capable as whites and Asians are, whereas there’s tons of social science and psychometric evidence that they are. All this makes our federal government, state and local governments, corps and organizations more inefficient and less cost effective than they would otherwise be. All that should be sunsetted and soon.
We fought a damn civil war to end slavery, in which more Americans died than in all our other wars put together. Despite lefty myth making blacks made very little contribution to the Union side.
Americans didn’t invent slavery. Neither did Europeans. Europeans rarely captured black slaves. Instead when Euros starting with Portuguese showed up in ships on West African shores, slaves were one of the main things the West African chiefs had on offer as a trade good, together with gold in some places.
Instead it was Brits and French and Americans who ended slavery. Slavery was legal all over the place though not in Western Europe (instead in their colonies) when it started up in the American south.
Blacks best (thin) hope of getting reparations was in the 90’s. That ship has sailed.
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GL Piggy–
Count me out.
The strategy of the Congressional Black Caucus in the 90’s was to first get a resolution apologizing for slavery. Then they planned in subsequent years to milk that for big actual money reparations.
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Abagond—
I’m certainly racist by your definition of that. The truth is racist and I’m not gonna tie myself up into PC truth denying knots in hopes you or someone else won’t call me racist by your and many leftists’ working definition of that term. I’m past caring. “Raciss, raciss, raciss”.
I don’t feel hatred open or hidden towards, nor wish violence on blacks (not being violent towards me). I do however look down on blacks in general yes (not necessarily a particular one), as having much lower intelligence and much higher crime rates (8x the murder rate, 4x the armed robbery rate, 4x the rape rate, 1000s of times the black white interracial rape rate, etc.), and as often seizing in hatred towards white, vastly more frequently so that the other way around. Blacks commit one hella a lot more race hate crimes against whites than the otherway around, but the national mainstream media covers this up, while avidly and extensively reporting any white on black hate crimes anywhere in the country. But no, I do see blacks as fully human, of course. As for intelligence, it’s not just the much lower mean, one standard deviation lower or 15 IQ points lower, it’s also that far smaller percentage of blacks are above some IQ threshold. That’s how the bell curve on IQ (and most human traits) works. Whereas ~16% of whites are at or above an IQ of 115, only a bit less than 1% of blacks are. That’s one whopping difference.
The way you use the term, the TRUTH is racist, as I said above.
People using common sense can see that blacks are a lot less smart, a lot more belligerent, more rude and less polite, and most non black and for that matter black people, feel that blacks are far more likely to commit a crime against them and so on. Even Jesse Jackson said he crosses the street when a group of young black brothas dressed in street clothes are coming up the street behind him. BTW all of these views are held MORE, rather than less, commonly and deeply among Asians and Hispanics than among whites. In fact the entire world and all of it’s races, who’ve had extensive contact with a wide spectrum of blacks have negative racial views towards them. E Asians, from Koreans, to Japanese to Chinese and so on especially do. The main reason Okinawans periodically lobby to have the base there closed or moved is because of a number of incidents of blacks from the base raping or intimidating or sexually abusing Japanese girls, and their fear of them.
Your trying to the extent it’s real as opposed to a pose, clearly fails. Big time. You have deep seated hatred and resentment towards white people it became very clear to me from occasionally reading your blog. You have very exaggerated stereotypes as well. You are also on a big time mission to shame lefty whites into being even more solicitious and bend over backwards towards blacks. Leave me out of it. Ain’t gonna work on me. I feel no white guilt re: blacks whatsoever.
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Pay you, Abagond? You’re not worth a penny and a penny is no longer worth a penny.
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I’m white and I fully support repatriations for every black American.
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If whites pay reparations, what are blacks willing to give us in return?
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@abagond:
These trolls are trying, but failing badly to stir up trouble. Check G.L. Piggly Wiggly’s site.
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These tools came from there courtesy of the Piggy.
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Did Doug1 really slink back to this blog and spout off most of the same nonsense that has been repeatedly trounced over the years? Pretending that you haven’t been made a fool of consistently, is just hilarious. Not to mention, it clearly demonmstrates that your flimsy arguments are all you can resort to.
@ Lara
Perhaps you need to look up what reparations are for…
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Now that I think about it, speaking of Piggy, there are a few blog entries floating around about this fool, that summarize him perfectly. (Normally, I don’t like to quote the blogs of others, but this saves me from having to type out an entire essay.)
http://obsidianraw.bravejournal.com/entry/78340
http://obsidianraw.bravejournal.com/entry/81016
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Nothing substantial that I’ve said here has EVER been refuted with stronger evidence, I’ve just been shouted down after awhile. I was never made a fool of though there was a great effort often enough to try to laugh down my evidence.
My arguments are robust as hell and I’ve given substantial evidence for what I’ve said. The black white IQ gap has been known to be a scientific fact for 100 years, since the first IQ tests were given on a mass basis, beginning with the US military to draftees in WWI. The left just likes to keep that hushed up and certainly the media do, and a lot of the left is just downright dishonest about this. A MUCH higher percentage of blacks than whites were excused from service under the draft due to much lower IQ scores in WWI and II. The US military still gives IQ tests to every would be enlistee called the AFAQT or some such to be less controversial. It denies enlistees and also screens them for various types of service on the basis of scores on those tests.
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BTW since I’m here, “white privilege” is a crock. It’s a lot like “institutional racism”. Both are chimeras dreamed up to explain the endlessly existing and never much closing gaps. Gaps in graduating from high school, gaps in reading at grade level, gaps in income, bigger gaps in wealth, and so on.
“White privilege” is instead white accomplishment, born of whites intelligence, inventiveness, conscientiousness, self control, and so on, as well as white accumulated social capital in their white culture, etc.
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@ Doug1
Thanks for validating many of the posts and comments on this blog.
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@Doug1
But this is all off topic, as it has nothing to do with the topic at hand. Although, if we were on topic, it wouldn’t matter, because you’ve consistently demonstrated that you are in fact unable to learn.
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@ Non De Plume
He can’t help it, but that’s the one thing he’s good for though. Reinforcing examples of white problems through his arrogance. Without even trying, he and a few other noteable “white ignorance apologists” are often “Exhibit A” on this blog.
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A MUCH higher percentage of blacks than whites were excused from service under the draft due to much lower IQ scores in WWI and II
Maybe they were SMARTER than the white as they made pretend they were dumber to get out of the fighting, dummy!
“White privilege” is instead white accomplishment, born of whites intelligence, inventiveness, conscientiousness, self control, and so on, as well as white accumulated social capital in their white culture, etc.
Uh-huh. Slow day at stormfront I see.
My arguments are robust as hell and I’ve given substantial evidence for what I’ve said.
Keep typing, perhaps you’ll convince yourself. It’s men like you who need to be in woman led relationships! If nothing else, it would prevent you from coming to blogs and typing garbage.!
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SMH at Doug, Piggy, and Lara. As soon as this blog examines how whites think from the perspective of a PoC, there ya’ll are foaming at the mouth. You guys must have a real problem if you try to convince yourselves and other people that whites are all that plus a bag of chips and black people are, as Piggy once said in my blog, “a drain on this society”.
No matter how many times you present your so-called scientific and empirical evidence about blacks being inferior, dumber than whites as proven by pointless tests, and getting the biggest piece of the American apple pie even though YOU THINK they don’t deserve it, the fact remains is that you look down on black people for emotional and psychological reasons. It is so bad that any form of truth to your contrary beliefs is unacceptable no matter who it’s from even though people like you ask for it.
What’s the point in looking down on black people? I’m going to go out on a limb here, but the only reasonable explanation one can think of is that you have an INFERIORITY COMPLEX. You know damn well the past sins caused by European whites and that you have social advantages over blacks due to your skin color. I doubt that you are that ignorant not to realize this. Still, you try to convince yourselves that it’s nonexistent and that black people are dumb, violent, and undeserving of anything. Therefore, racism against them is justified and reasonable but racism, or prejudices, against whites is a cardinal sin. Why? Because white people of today are innocent and should not be held accountable for yesterday’s crimes. Crimes against white people happen more often, and they are caused by blacks. White people are the most oppressed in your mind, and white people have created the greatest inventions in human history.
I don’t know about the rest of you, but I think it’s sad. Instead of living and thinking like a human being, you jokers want more even if it’s through your hatred of black people. So, keep thinking that black people are the problem while avoiding truths. Continue to live in your fantasy world and stop trying to get us to join it.
THE END!
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I wrote a long long comment about white men having invented the modern world world soup to nuts, giving huge numbers of for instances, but Abagond kept it in moderation and then deleted it. You can find it at GL Piggy’s though. This will take you right to it:
http://glpiggy.net/2011/12/11/reparations/#comment-29170
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brothaman
They are deserving of what they can earn, the rights of American citizenship and equal but not special treatment under the law.
It’s a laugh riot that I have an inferiority complex vis a vis blacks. I also feel zero white guilt. Standards were different four hundred and 150 years ago, but the north still fought the civil war to end slavery, which it did accomplish. It also tried to end white southern oppression of blacks through reconstruction, a least for a decade and a half, then grew weary of the military occupation of the south.
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Read the link I posted just above to see just how much of an inferiority complex I have. Heh.
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brothawolf–
We spend endless amounts of energy and money and intellectual brain cycles trying to close uncloseable educational outcomes and income gaps, and make our government and corps and other big institutions far more inefficient by apply AA and disparate impact to force AA, and too many uncompetitive blacks in federal state and local governments and so on, based on the lie that all of differences in IQ are due to undiscovered “environmental” factors we will discover if we just try a little harder for a little longer. Well we’ve tried like hell for more than 40 years and nothings worked worth squat in any scalable way.
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The lefty bs that race is just a social construct with no biological or genetic reality (which I completely disproved here with extensive evidence maybe 9 months ago), that IQ tests measure nothing important and indeed are rigged against blacks, and that none of the IQ difference is in the genes is just lefty lying. Most of them know they’re lying, the brighter ones anyway.
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So you wrote a long winded post that reinforces how obvious “White Male Inferiority Complexes” are protected by simple “Credit Pimping”? That’s nothing new.
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“Maybe they were SMARTER than the white as they made pretend they were dumber to get out of the fighting, dummy!”
Blacks are patriotic and are proud of being in the military. Please give credit, where credit is due.
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Lara–
Hey, no fair, you get one hell of a lot better icon than I do!
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Thank you, Franklin. I was about to say the same thing.
Doug, you’ve just proven my case about you and Piggy by that comment you wrote about white inventions on Piggy’s blog.
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brothawolf–
All of what I said was completely the truth. I know what I’m talking about. In fact I know one hella lot.
Don’t you care about the truth?????
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Franklin–
I’m doing real well myself, but I can’t claim to have started the industrial revolution. Just that my broad ancestral group did, i.e. my sub-race (whites or Euro parts of Caucasian) and indeed my national fore bearers did, that is the Brits.
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Question about the reservations; don’t something like 80 odd percent of natives “not” live on the reservations?
If so; wouldn’t the use of reservation natives as a general example of the original peoples of america be somewhat inaccurate?
Alcoholism and abuse may or may not be rampant among the indians on the reservations (don’t honestly know) but how rampant is it among those not on them?
Also; whether black people are inferior or not, does not equate to white privilege not existing.
If you work on the assumption that due to slavery etc…..white society got a fairly big leg up on the black society in the US….than unless black people were literally “Superior” wouldn’t it be inevitable that the gap only got larger? Since black people would be struggling just to get by or to get resources and opportunities the richer/less oppressed groups have innately and thus while black people are struggling just to get to the starting line white society had already been allowed to run 2 or 3 laps?
Admitably I’m no expert on economics, social growth etc….but like I typed earlier wouldn’t the gap almost have to be the same or larger, working on every assumption excepting that they are superior?
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Why do people think having slavery in this country gave whites such an advantage? Please explain to me exactly how that would work.
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@Doug1
No, you didn’t blatantly claim any of that. That was a strawman you just built for the sake of potential conversations/derailments. What you DID do was attempt to make a “clever” contextual claim of personal racial superiority through collective association. Trickle Down Racial Superiority. A laughable concept that doesn’t exist, no matter how hard you wish it did. It’s one that is found quite commonly in white males who are societally marginal, despite their supposed “great lineage”.
But we can continue to engage in a snarky back and forth all night. I’ve said my piece, and I’m sure that you’ll unintentionally continue to support everything I’ve said with your future comments.
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“than unless black people were literally “Superior” wouldn’t it be inevitable that the gap only got larger?”
Why would it be inevitable?
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I hope that no one is fooled and responds to Lara’s false, white, “teach me”, inquisitiveness, that only serves the purpose of derailing. She has never actually learned anything, and just bounces all over the place when her questions are answered. Only to inevitably end up asking the same (tweaked) questions in another thread.
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Abagond,
What aspect of “white Supremacy” do you hate the most?
And are you hating something real or imagined?
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@Doug
Hell yeah I care about the truth. I just don’t think you do.
You see people like you, Piggy, his girlfriend Unamused and all the rest of the HBDers, only want to hear what they want to hear. You repeat the usual “race is biological” arguments while Lara tries to portray herself as an innocent ditz willing to learn, but acts as if she is incapable of learning a damn thing. You expose your racist mindsets all the time, and pick on PoC who disagree with you because you know they have good points, and you are screwed up. So, you repeat the same old BS over and over portraying yourselves as geniuses and true thinkers whenever Abagond, and possibility other anti-racist bloggers whom you probably have never visited seeing as how it seems you have some interest here, write about the racist mindsets, actions, and structures of people who think the same way you do which includes KKK and NeoNazi members. You are no different from them. You are just the same.
I can face the truth, and I’m man enough to admit when I’m wrong. I’m also capable of considering other points of view. So, tell me, what’s your excuse?
You want to believe in your heart of hearts that white people are superior and black people are inferior not because of science, but because there’s something about you that you don’t like and you take it out on them despite that white people are in no position to accuse black people of anything. It also doesn’t mean that even though you believe in bio-diversity that it gives you the right to talk down to blacks in a setting where your mindset is the problem. That has nothing to do with logic. It has a lot to do with mentality and emotion.
So, go ahead and defend yourself. Repeat yourself, again. Send links to websites that say the same things you’ve type. Do the usual bit, and cover up the fact that you have something against color while proving everyone that you do.
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The vast majority – as much as 90% – of the slaves that were brought to the US were purchased from black slave traders in west Africa. So if you want reparations, about 90% should come from west African countries.
Every race on earth has been both slave and slave owner. Slavery isn’t what is wrong with black society today. You can start with the fact that nearly 3 out of 4 black children are born out of wedlock and have little to no contact with their fathers.
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Nom de Plume–
You’re most heartily welcome. Heh.
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proudchocolategirl–
Your icon looks more vanilla than chocolate to me — well over half white genes by appearance.
You probably do live within black American culture though, alas.
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After deleting out of moderation my long comment about how white men created the modern world, soup to nuts, with voluminous examples of what vitally important things to the modern world they and they alone created, he also subsequently after awhile deleted my comment linking that same long comment/post on GL Piggy’s blog. Threatened much???? It contained nothing that could remotely be construed as hate speech. It was/is 100% true. It’s impossible to argue with it. The facts are the facts. It simple extols many of the incredibly important inventions and creations of white made that have in aggregate created the modern world – for a whole lot more than just white men. Why would delete even the link? Purely for his propaganda purposes I have to conclude, and because he found it too threatening, in its truth. I’ll link you all right to it again.
If you never hear from me again around here, it will be because Abagond has banned me. Not for personally insulting anyone, nor for what can remotely fairly be called trolling. Yeah I am in opposition to a good lot of the arguments he makes, hardly all, but I do so entirely above board, without shifting identities, and without trying to disrupt or bait people for the sport of it. I’m expressing a competing view, is all. Anyway here’s the link, for as long as he let’s this stay up:
http://glpiggy.net/2011/12/11/reparations/#comment-29170
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Oh I see I’m mistaken. I guess I missed it. I see he didn’t delete my previous link to that long comment of mine at GLP’s. My apologies Abagond.
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Absolutely.
The south was a lot poorer and much less developed than the north at the start of the civil war. It’s remained the poorest large part of the country. Cheap black labor has been no great boon.
We would have been a lot better off if we’d never have imported black slaves, and would be so today. Black slavery did make some planters and slave traders rich, but it didn’t make the south as a whole rich. It made it poorer than it would have been with free white farmers and an incentive to begin industrializing earlier. Without black slavery in the south, more white European immigrants would have come over for the cheap but rich southern land, etc.
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@ Doug1:
If you want to rant about glorious white inventors I have a post for that:
Here it amounts to derailing the thread.
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Doug is right, the south, at the time of the Civil War, was much poorer than the north. Slavery would have eventually ended, just because it wouldn’t have made economic sense. Owning slaves was expensive.
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@doug: You are an ignoramus and do not know jack about science. If you did you would be not blabbering about the stuff you are. One example: soap. You think white men invented that? Man, you really do not know anything, do you? One thing white christian europeans learned from arabs during crusades was that bathing and washing is a good thing. You see, the western european christians had forgotten that. In 1600’s England families bathed and washed perhaps once a year, if even so often.
Also, during the Thirty years war (the biggest catastrophe in Europe before WW2 and all in the name of christianity) the finns were considered extremely filthy by most others because they did swim and took baths, just like animals you see. The civilized europeans did not bath or wash. They did not go naked even in the privacy of their homes because, ta daa, that was a sin.
So they smelled and they smelled real bad. The whole court of Luis the 13th smelled so apalling that they had to come up with something against the astonoshing stink and odour. It was called the parfume industry. Yes, the world famous parfume business was born out of the filth and stink of those men and women of the most wonderful court in the whole Western world.
Actually, the personal doctor of the Sun king got so tired of the mess that he called all the ladies and courtiers to the big ball room (a huge huge hall) of Versailles. He showed a bucket of hot water and a bar of soap and announced: these are the answer to all the health problems of the ladies of the whole court. And off with his head!
Also, one thing about the Louis the XIII court and palace of Versailles. There was not a single toilet in that building. Not one. What they had was servants with buckets. During those magnificent royal court dances, with all those marvellous crystal chandeliers, dresses and flash and bling bling, when a lady had to poop, she would vink a servant with a bucket and he came and placed the bucket under the skirt. Lady would then sit down and do the big one, get up again and the servant would go outside to empty the bucket. All this took place right there, among those thousands of guests and noble men. No wiping your ass there! If a gentleman had to go, he retreated to a corner and other gentlemen formed a visual barrier, behind which the fore said gentleman pooped into a bucket. And once again, no wiping the butt.
Dancing in those heavy thick dresses and wigs all night long made people sweat and that made them stink even worse. Not to mention those thousands of un wiped asses were remains and stains were doing their own thing, adding the flavor to the smell of the most wonderful christian white european court around!
Ladies had rot in their teeth, under their fingernails and between their legs. Men also had similar diseases. Fleas and others were so common that they invented hair needles. That is right, those were not originally keeping those powdered wigs on their places but were there so that ladies could scartch their itching flea infested skalps with them. And all this took place in the court which was emulated and aped all over the western europe and praised as an example how far civilization had reached.
Mean while japanese were having hot baths on regular bases, indians were doing reconstructive surgery and giving shots against the small box, native americans had have their sweat lodges for centuries and arabs were swimming and bathing and using lotions for skin care etc.
A small history lesson for you my son.
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Sam–
Yeah I’m an ignoramus. Right. Everyone can see that. Heh.
You’re being tendentious for the sake of your lefty radical equalist dogmas. You mask the weakness and besides the point of your argument with your insults. And no I never said soap was invented by white men, now did I? It was invented far before the modern era. As well everyone who’s the least bit educated knows that Europe went through a dark and middle ages from 500 AD with the fall of Rome until about 1450 AD. The Chinese also had their cycles of greater and lesser periods of illumination. ssAfrica has never had a period of any real illumination, nor did Australia until Euros arrived. Nor did North America until Euros. Central and South America did somewhat with the Maya and Inca, but they were way behind the prior pinnacles of Greco-Roman and Chinese civilizations.
I did not say that whites (Euros and their overseas offspring) have at all times in history created the most advanced civilization on earth. What I said and what’s absolutely true is that white men invented the modern world soup to nuts, and then proved it by voluminous examples.
Many whites however have created the leading civilizations on earth for much of human history. From 500 bc to 500 ad, during the classical Greco-Roman period, with the Eastern Roman Empire Byzantines being no slouch for the next 500 years, and from about 1500 ad onward to today. That’s a lot of history. Either whites or NE Asians, the two smartest races in the world, have been the races behind the leading civilizations on earth from 500 bc until today. Before that it was other Caucasians in Mesopotamia, Egypt and Persia, from the dawn of agriculture. Civilization only began after agriculture was well established.
The modern era is conventionally dated from 1500 AD onward, but I prefer 1450, with Gutenberg’s absolutely transformational first mass production printing press in the world.
Oh and by the way Luis XIII wasn’t called the Sun King. That was his kid, Louis XIV. Just helping you out with your history there.
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sam
Far too many still uphold that particular tradition.
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Since the White man invented modern civilization according to Doug1 then it is the White man who we have to thank for this:
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V-4–
If you work on the assumption that due to slavery etc…..white society got a fairly big leg up on the black society in the US….than unless black people were literally “Superior” wouldn’t it be inevitable that the gap only got larger? Since black people would be struggling just to get by or to get resources and opportunities the richer/less oppressed groups have innately and thus while black people are struggling just to get to the starting line white society had already been allowed to run 2 or 3 laps?
No. Plenty of immigrant groups came to this country with very little, and then rose over a few generations to be more or less equally prosperous as the original WASPs (e.g. Irish Catholics) or more prosperous and more leading of many areas of society (Jews, and to a lesser extent those S. Asian Indians we let into this country.)
Intelligence and drive matters huge in this country, over a few generations.
Also the difficulties blacks faced throughout the country during the period of Jim Crow from the end of reconstruction in 1877 (it lasted for some 22 years) to 1965 are greatly exaggerated. Yeah the lid was on pretty tight in the deep south, much much less so in Virginia and Maryland. There wasn’t much Jim Crow in the north. I’m not saying there was no segregation at all, but most hotels in the north took black guests, most restaurants served them, and black businesses wouldn’t necessarily be avoided by white customers. There was a good deal of housing segregation and self segregation though. (Studies have shown that most ethnic groups prefer to live amongst their own kind, not necessarily absolutely exclusively but predominantly. That goes not just for whites but blacks as well and Chinese, Indians etc.) Public schools were not segregated except somewhat by housing residence patterns which were a good lot more segregated than today.
Quite a few blacks became millionaires and multimillionaires in the north in the period from after the civil war to the civil rights act. I’d guess actually that a higher percentage of became millionaires in constant dollars (say 1935 dollars when a million was truly big money unlike today) became such per decade in that period than after 1935. The lack of federal civil rights acts was no impossible or incredibly difficult to surmount bar to great success everywhere but the SE, and mostly south of Virginia.
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The S.E. Johnson Wax (they make tons of consumer products beyond wax) black family owned business fortune is one that arouse during the pre-civil rights laws period for example, that comes to mind.
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Abagond.
I see Doug did not open the link you provided for him as he continues with his babbling about white inventions and accomplishments.
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I’m intrigued…all this reminiscing about past inventions and accomplishments. Whilst interesting at times, maybe a revelation for some, but I am bemused about the individual need to continually discuss them, almost as though it is something people in the here and now can take credit for. I mean, what’s all that about?
I mean, someone can be well read, but they may be a well read a**hole who contributes nothing to society apart from ‘sounding off’ about what our people have done whilst sponging off the government for all anyone knows!
And really, can we also honestly say that genetically, a certain ‘race’ of people are smarter than others? Do all ‘peoples’ across the world have access to the same level of education which is comparitive to the U.S or some European examples?
Also, I have to say, embarrassingly, I have not seen much evidence to prove the assertion that WP are smarter on the whole but, there are a few who have much to contribute and it seems that these guys differ from the ‘norm’ in that they are well travelled and perhaps, I hate to say it, not from the U.S.
Would be happy for the last statement to be refuted but from an ‘individual’ perspective not ‘using’ forefathers *yawn*
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@doug: My bad, I meant Louis the 14th of course. About weaknes, after over 20yrs of power lifting I would not go that far, but hey, you have a right for your opinion.
For your information, the romans were not your forefathers. Actually they considered your forefathers brutal savages and very often tried to kill them all, or at least make them pay tribute or be slaves for them. Julius Caesar was very proud he murdered about million gauls, his adopted son Octavianus Augustus liked to wipe out whole germanic tribes and some were proud of their killing of the tribes in Britain, such as the iceni.
Greeks also had a onomanopoethic name for your ancestors, those white europeans, and that word was Barbar. They thoughed that when people from the north tried to talk it sounded like that. You propably know what that means. Right?
Your absolute ignorance is well revealed in your claim that mesopotamians, egyptians and persian as caucasians. First of all, there are no caucasians. That is an 1800’s invention of one nut job. Real caucasians are azeris, georgians, ossetians, abhasians, tsetshens, armenians etc.who look just like turks etc. Just to help you out in your ignorance.
As for the sub Saharn Africa, you do know that Timbuktu had a library way before most white europeans even did know what a book was?
I know it hurts to think that some non whites were doing all kinds of things which some one else did centuries before any white had any idea of it, but hey, that just the way it is. I know it hurts that in 1400’s chinese looked the whole Europe as the most western end of the world which was too poor, remote, dirty and disease ridden to be nothing but a small market for some goods but that is the way it was.
I know it really burns your back side that the white man has ruled the world only for some 400 plus years and before that those mighty European kingdoms were just bunch of drunken robber clans fighting over a plague devasted waste land, this in the eyes of those Asian empires and some others.
And what really really burns yourkind is this: without the ability to wage wars in such a devastating scale western white might would be aleready gone, as it is doing right now. US economy is in a such a bad state that without the nuclear arsenal, the country would no different from, say, Brazil. European Union is teetering on the edge of collapse and it will collapse i few decades. Places like Bahrain and others on the Gulf are already way ahead moneywise of Europe or USA, China and Japan owns most of USA, so it looks like in this century the white west will collapse back into its historical position below and behind the rich regions of the world. That is just the way it is.
As for lefty radical dogmas, I have no political stance, ideology or anything remotely like that. You, on the other hand seem to be right wing racist, kind of who votes for any one who can quote bible and look tuff in the pictures before he gets caught with his pants down in mens toilet or in some corruption scandal.
And finally there is no biological white race. You, Doug, are genetically an african. Actually, gentically you belong into a african genetical minority. Sorry about that scientific fact.
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Sam,
I gotta hand it to you. You know how to make ignorance look mentally deficient. Although, I doubt Doug is willing or capable to take all the info you’ve given in. His white American “pride” is preventing him from doing so. It’s a handicap he has.
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I wrote a long long comment about white men having invented the modern world world soup to nuts, giving huge numbers of for instances,
That was your first error, writing reams of garbage and having the temerity of directing a bunch of ‘dumb negroes’ to the site. Why bother, if you didn’t, don’t care?
It’s a laugh riot that I have an inferiority complex vis a vis blacks.
It’s a laugh riot all right, your rantings that is!
Purely for his propaganda purposes I have to conclude, and because he found it too threatening, in its truth.
Yes, he is so ‘threatened’ he is hiding as we speak!
The whole court of Luis the 13th smelled so apalling that they had to come up with something against the astonoshing stink and odour. It was called the parfume industry.
Yes sam. That’s where the saying; “you smell like a French whore” came from. Even today they are not fond of soap but neither are the British!
Yeah I’m an ignoramus. Right. Everyone can see that. Heh.
Well you’re learning boyo!
soup to nuts
How about dollars to donuts(with strawberry icing)?
You, on the other hand seem to be right wing racist, kind of who votes for any one who can quote bible and look tuff in the pictures before he gets caught with his pants down in mens toilet or in some corruption scandal.
That about sums up Doug1. A frequenter of public toilets and tea rooms. Tea anyone? Soap is one of the most important inventions ever. It wasn’t guns which allowed the whites to conquer others in those days, it was their poor hygiene. The invadees smelt them before they saw them and ran! keep the jokes coming Doug1!
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Sam–
A better word for Caucasians might be Western Eurasians, of which whites or Europeans are a subset. That’s the term that genetics and world history (or human genetic and cultural history) brilliant blogger (who’s into HBD) Razib Khan prefers and is trying to push, but it has wide currency. The world Caucasian is widely used except by lefties to mean the same thing. There’s considerable genetic relatedness among Caucasians.
The reason for that word is that it was though in the 1800’s by anthropolgists that Caucasians including Europeans and Persians, Mesopotamians etc. originated or split off from Caucasins/East Asian proto stock, in the Caucasus mountain region and then spread from there. That hasn’t been thought to be the case for some time. Instead it’s often thought the originated or split off in the western Eurasian steppe above the Black and Aural seas. Central Asia is rather a cline or mixed borderlands area between Caucasians and NE Asians.
I know rather a lot about this.
I didn’t claim Roman ancestry. But they’re not as closely related to me as northern Europeans and particularly Brits and Danes are but they’re not far distant. There’s a good chance I’ve got some classical period Roman blood in me, that is genetic ancestry. All of Europe is quite closely related genetically compared to many other comparably sized places. Whites generally have the same smarts. At different times and places some areas of the white world have been far more culturally advanced than others, but they’ve all got the potential if culture and government and what not falls into place. Momentum is important and at certain times and places there’s a opportunity for developing cultural momentum. It’s not all genes and I’ve never said it was. Helps a lot to be over a threshold though and to have a large smart fraction as La Griffe du Lion likes to say and rather prove.
I’ve known about that for decades. Might have learned it in grade school in fact, can’t remember. It’s exaggerated by those Afrocentrists and lefties than want to puff up meager ssAfrican cultural achievements. It had a library because it was at one terminus of a trans Saharan Muslim slave and to a degree gold trading route. It was established by literate Arab Muslim traders, in the Arabic and not any local language, largely for religious missionary reasons. Few ssAfricans in Timbucku could read, but they could be read to. As for the later part of your statement the Greeks and Romans had books, and Catholic (and Orthodox Greek) monks preserved books and libraries throughout Europe after the fall of Rome in 475 ad.
By 1500 the Spanish had discovered and founded colonies in the New World, and first Portugal and the Holland and England had discovered cheap sea routes to India. Not long after they discovered Indonesia and the Dutch and at first also the English set up colonies there. (Later on, in the middle or late 1600s the English and Dutch agreed to let England have India and Holland have Indonesia.) Europe positively galloped forward from that date on, really being in 1450 with Gutenberg, and also Portuguese being long distance sail explorations beginning with Africa’s west coast but then reaching Oman and India by 1500. Many people estimate that the Western Europeans were wealthier per person than China by 1500. They soon became much more so. However they was no royal palace or family anywhere near as wealthy and the Chinese emperor or who had so impressive a court.
Even in 1400 parts of Europe were also pretty damn rich, and creating beautiful art and music. Venice was on the basis of trading with Arabs and also Byzantium/the Eastern Roman Empire, and so was Rome, and so too on the basis of Medici banking mostly was Florence. The Hanseatic trading league on the Baltic were prosperous as was the wool weaving, woolen clothes making, tapestry making Flanders, today’s Belgium more or less.
As for the notion that the days of leading white male inventiveness are behind us, whites are still inventing almost all the advances in computers, semi conductors for them and smart phones, they recently invented tablet computing and communications devices and the Kindle, almost all ongoing medial advances, almost all advances in science and social sciences, almost all the world’s widely watched by other races movies and TV shows, and so on and so forth.
Economically we’re just in slump right now due to too much government and especially household debt due many to the housing bubble and crash. We were in worse shape during the grate depression, and we bounced back out of that. We will out of this one too, but it will probably take another couple of years.
There most certainly is a white subrace and a major continental scale Caucasian race, as genetic research has conclusively proven beginning with Luigi Cavalli-Sforza of Stanford Uni., though he calls them continental scale populations to avoid leftish squeamishness and efforts to block him on that issue. I conclusive proved that there are biologic races which genetic testing can clearly identify in a large number of comments on a couple of threads about 9 months ago. Others were saying similar things as I am. All geneticists know this although some lie about it for general as opposed to expert to expert discussion, to avoid getting in trouble with lefties and the media. The leftist position that “race is just a social construct” is utterly absurd. It most certainly is not as common sense tells most people. It requires real immersion in dogma to believe that, and science is firmly and entirely against it. Real science that is as opposed to bs ideological cultural anthropology and the like.
Race is about ancestry which is about relatedness. All whites are more closely related to themselves by far than they are to ssAfricans or NE Asians.
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Just glancing over the comments…
Sam – Timbuktu was an Arab city, brosef. Sorry.
Seeing the treatment of Doug’s reasoned, honest, and even tactful (as they show politeness toward someone who openly hates him) comments here is hilarious.
Living in an officially Leftist society makes honest white men like myself sometimes wonder if “its me”. Seeing these hare-brained shaming responses (“slow day at Stormfront, eh?”) to intelligent, factual points…well, thank ya’ll, because it gets rid of any lingering inclination to doubt my point of view.
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Sam–
That is just truly, breathtaking absurd. No geneticists who have studied population genetics or most other human genetics believes thinks that. It’s just a lefty lie, a construct. Europeans aka whites are a sub set of the major geographic race, Caucasians or Western Eurasians. There’s voluminous genetic evidence to that effect and that’s what mainstream genetics know, though they generally don’t think it’s prudent to say so to the NY Times or on CNN. That’s what the leading genetics blogger on the net Razib Khan, who you may have grokked isn’t a white kind of American says, or said years ago when he was still addressing long settled issues like that among the actual experts on the subject, as opposed to some lefty public intellectuals.
Nicholas Wade, the biology, human evolution and genetics science reporter refers to major continental scale population groups (aka races) a good lot when writing about human prehistory and so on. I’m kinda surprised they let him, as is Steve Sailer, but so far they have.
The kinky hair that almost no other human racial groups or subgroups have, and very dark skin of 100% genetically West Africans, and greater fast twitch muscle fiber on average than any other racial group (sprinting and jumping) aren’t biological differences from whites, mediated or caused by genes? Of course they are. So is the greater levels of testosterone or really more testosterone receptors to some extent over whites and to a good lot large extent over NE Asians isn’t a biological difference mediated by genes over between blacks and those two groups? Don’t be absurd. We now know from a recent genetic research, sequencing DNA directly and comparing it with IQ test scores that AT Least 50% of the variance in individual IQ scores is due to variance in their genes, and it could be a good bit more, more powerful sequencing machines will be necessary to find out which will come soon.
Genetic research hasn’t yet been done on whether variance in genes between the races is also at least 50% of the reason for the large racial white-black IQ gap as well, but it would be very strange and logically unlikely for it not to be. Getting research grants to study that from the federal government will likely be tough in today’s climate though.
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I’ve never read Stormfront once and am not in the least interested in doing so. I’m not a race hater nor do I have irrational prejudice nor to I judge an individual I have an opportunity to get to know on the basis of their racial averages, and all my views are science based. Well and history based. I’m not a white nationalist either. I am a race realist = HBDer.
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“I’ve never read Stormfront once and am not in the least interested in doing so.”
Why don’t I believe you?
“I’m not a race hater nor do I have irrational prejudice nor to I judge an individual”
If that was true, you wouldn’t have typed what you thought.
“I have an opportunity to get to know on the basis of their racial averages, and all my views are science based.”
From the perspective of who, overprivileged, racist, conservative, white males? You seem to agree with everything they said about white people with no question.
“I’m not a white nationalist either. I am a race realist = HBDer.”
A racist by any other name is just as narrow minded and self-absorbed.
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I’ve never read Stormfront once and am not in the least interested in doing so.
Maybe you should, you’d feel more at home there. You may find it to be quite soothing as they of like mind.
All whites are more closely related to themselves by far than they are to ssAfricans or NE Asians.
If I was the product of inbreeding, I certainly wouldn’t boast about it!
Seeing the treatment of Doug’s reasoned, honest, and even tactful (as they show politeness toward someone who openly hates him) comments here is hilarious.</em.
Yes liquor will do that to a person, it is hilarious but not in the way you characterize it. You and Doug are absurd! What is absurd is that you would choose to come to a blog diametrically opposed to your views; tell people that they should be polite in return for being insulted; go off on tangents which have no basis in reality and so on and so forth. No, the hilarity comes in to play as no one really gives two sh*ts what Doug or his ilk has to type. Doug and yourself have an itch that needs scratching. Find someone else to scratch it. Otherwise take a flying leap off a cliff if that doesn't suffice. Oh, I don't 'hate' Doug, for all I know he could be a twelve year old kid or a ninety year old man, in other words anyone, anonymous. Now I am going to be 'polite' and 'politely' tell you to exhale out of your anal aperture as you are full of gaseous anomalies, Maalox may help you.
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Pathetic emotional rejoinders with about zero fact content.
The levels of hygene at the French court in the mid 1600’s may have some truth but it’s highly likely to be greatly exaggerated due to black and far lefty white in alliance lefty animus. But whateves, what was the level of hygene in ssAfrica at that time?? Yeah, exactly. Or today. They’re pathetic and always have been.
Haiti is pathetic. Almost two years after their quake and massive amounts of foreign (almost all white) aide workers there and foreign aide money and pledges of tons more if they can produce credible rebuilding plans, and they’ve done f*ck all in rebuilding. Just pathetic. South AFrica is going down the tube under black rule, as Rhodesia/Zimbabwe already has, both with massive amounts of anti white full on absolute hatred of obviously much more capable whites in both countries, which is transmogrified into “white priveldge” and “oppressive” white racism. Both countries were massively better off on average under white rule. The current black governmental elites weren’t better off which is why the change, but most of the black populations were. The same is true throughout ssAfrica during white colonial times, compared to now.
With the possible exception of the Belgian Congo. Portuguese weren’t so great either. I say possible because re: Congo cause have you checked out what’s going on there recently. Absolute horror show!!
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Doug1 said
That is just not true. Except maybe inside your head where you just make up stuff and pick and choose which facts and half-truths to believe based on how good they make you feel, dismissing the rest as “lefty”. Science is not always right, of course, but dismissing the parts you do not agree with as lefty is an ad hominem, a logical fallacy.
If it is all right to dismiss science as politically biased, then it is all right to dismiss what you say as politically biased, which it most certainly is.
Further your world view presupposes that whites exercise their power for the most part fairly and with little racism or self-interest. And that is just flat-out delusional given their violent, skinhead history.
Also, HBD is not science but pseudoscience – like astrology and ancient astronauts. I thought I already did a post on that, but apparently not. It will be my next post.
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You actually DID do a post on that, Abagond. I think that was one of the last threads RR posted on, before he was rightfully banned for being a stalker. And Doug1 dismisses everything he can’t argue against as either “lefty” or “mere squid-ink”. Executed in a fashion that is both hilarious and hypocritically emotional.
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As a matter of fact, here are a few of the threads:
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@ Franklin:
Thanks.
@ Doug1
In addition to the links Franklin gave there is also this:
It is about what a pseudoscience is but it uses HBD as its main example.
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“I think that was one of the last threads RR posted on, before he was rightfully banned for being a stalker”
That was dumb, RR is probably the best black commenter on these blogs.
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@doug: “There’s a good chance I’ve got some classical period Roman blood in me, that is genetic ancestry.”
I got to give it to you, you are one of the funniest guys around!
I understand that in your childlike imagination everything that does not fit into your imagined world view is “lefty”. That is why I call you right wing nut job. Because that is what you are. And I do not mean this as an insult but as an observation. Right wing nut jobs claim that everyone else must be a lefty or pinko or commie or something else, like a hippie.Or even a negro!!!!!!
You belive that HBD is science which it is not. You belive there are gentical/bilogical races when there is only one human race biologically. You really should get off the Net and start to educate yourself. Instead of finding baloney Net stuff that fits into your paranoid imagined concept of reality, go out and learn. Visit the World, my son. Look your won country and culture from the outside and think. You might learn something about the planet and humanity.
You belive that somewhere outside your room there are lefties who gang up with angry negroes to ruin your world. Sorry, the guys who ruin your world and country are mostly white guys in suit and ties working in White House, Wall Street and some investment banks. They are the ones who stole you tax dollars and laughed at your face. It really must be dissapointing but that is the way it is, my friend. Lefties? Are there any left any more? Chinese communist are more capitalist than any american ever was. But I guess that is not something you learn sitting in your room and surfing in the Net.
Now let me educate you on the biological race. It is human race. In this ONE race there are tiny variations. But heres the funny part: the biggest genetical differences between humans exist in Africa. Yes. A guy from Ghana is way more different from a guy in Nigeria than you are from the next black guy you see today. That is because the whole human race came from Africa and only a small portion of the gentical variation ever left the continent. That is why you, aborginal from Australia and black from your home town are more close biologically than two africans. Feels shitty, doesn’t it? That is if you have believed the HBD poop.
“With the possible exception of the Belgian Congo. Portuguese weren’t so great either. I say possible because re: Congo cause have you checked out what’s going on there recently.”
This also reveals how ignorant you are. What has happened in Congo today is a childs play compared what happened there during the times of Belgian rule. Also the present civil war has been fueled by the big international companies (white western owned companies) because the one group who controls the raw materials they need, will get a good pay day.
“The levels of hygene at the French court in the mid 1600′s may have some truth but it’s highly likely to be greatly exaggerated due to black and far lefty white in alliance lefty animus.”
You say that the official royal private doctor of Louis the 14th was a commie? A negro?? What???
I am really sorry but in 1600’s Paris there were no plumming what so ever. Pigs ate shit on the streets. People threw their stuff out of windows straight into the streets. And really, in Versailles there was not a single toilet. Think about that. Not one toilet in that massive palace, not one poop room for three to five thousand courtiers and ladies and noble men and visitors. Why? Because they did not poop??
@brando: “Timbuktu was an Arab city, brosef. Sorry.”
Right, sorry. It was an Saharan city, run by black africans. Must be a sore point for you.
“Living in an officially Leftist society”
You live in North Korea? Wow! I recommend you move out. No wonder that your world view is a bit strange.
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@ sam:
Keep the history lessons coming! I love it…
Regarding the court of the ‘Sun King’; isn’t that where the fashion of wearing furs came about? Due to the fleas, lice, and other body-inhabiting vermin that those filthy non-bathers were infested with, they took to ‘wearing’ live minks and ferrets – the animals would catch and eat the bugs. I think I recall reading something about that… 😀
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Its like arguing with an extremely over-confident child. Good luck with your superior south african hygeine. If you get aids, you can always rape a baby! Mout.
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@brando:
What a sick comment.
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Abagond.
“There wasn’t much Jim Crow in the north. I’m not saying there was no segregation at all, but most hotels in the north took black guests, most restaurants served them …”
That is just not true. Except maybe inside your head where you just make up stuff and pick and choose which facts and half-truths to believe based on how good they make you feel, dismissing the rest as “lefty”.
It certainly is true. I know quite a bit about the period from the end of the civil war to the mid sixties. It’s also true as I said that quite a few black multimillionaires arouse during that time. It was hardly impossible for blacks to rise far before the mid sixties. What I dismiss are lies by lefties which are very frequent in PC areas.
Science is not always right, of course, but dismissing the parts you do not agree with as lefty is an ad hominem, a logical fallacy.
If it is all right to dismiss science as politically biased, then it is all right to dismiss what you say as politically biased, which it most certainly is.
I don’t dismiss objective science when it comes up with a result congenial to lefties and not to race realists, the few times that occurs. I take that into account. You’ve never seen me dismiss the Flynn effect as a fabrication for example.
It’s usually not the scientists themselves who produce fraudulent results, although that occasionally does happen. It’s others lefties in the field or not even in the field more often who cover up and lie about what the SCIENTIFIC consencious is on PC topics. What there is far more often is a political consensus, mostly held by those not in the revenent fields, usually psychometrics, social psychology, and esp. these days genetics. The general actual large consensus among geneticists doing human evolution work for periods since homo sapiens sapiens emerged about 100k years ago is that there most definitely are human races, or population groups in a real biological that is genetic sense, which can be divided more coarsely or more finely, that is by sub sub groups of the 6 or so major geographic populations (that is races).
I think whites have tended to do that since WWII, and do that more than any other race by far. They’ve done it more than any other for a lot longer than WWII. There was a lot of intentional uplifting in British and French colonialism (though less so in Portuguese and hardly at all in Belgium’s one late and brief colony). Whites have simply had vastly more power than any other race in the modern world certainly since about 1700.
There has been and incredible amount of anti white male propaganda by the left since the mid sixties however in America and to a lesser extent in Europe, mostly propagated by whites, ironically, in a sort of altruism competition as Steve Sailer puts it. Basically elite whites haven’t felt like they have anything to worry about from other groups, so in order to buy allegiance they compete in trying to shame any whites that don’t fully sign on to the left designed political correctness taboos, and denigration of voluminous past white “crimes” (of power, fundamentally).
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@brando: Childish?? Well, a guy who thinks aids is african thing is a pretty childish indeed. And how many times you have visited the continent in your wisdom and deep understanding of this issue? I guess. None. Zip. Zero. Nada. No No. See, if you would travel a bit you would see what the world is all about. I highly recommend it, specially for a guy like you. I’ve been around a bit longer than you, unless you are over fifty.
As for getting aids, I practise safe sex, always have and always will. It is very simple and healthy. Perhaps your bible touting rightwing teatcher hasn’t told you about such an evil thing as safe sex? Check it out from the Net. It might be a lesson. I also take the Test after having a sexual relationship. Very simple too and very good thing to do. I recommend it too. Oh, I forgot! You can not, being an american, unless you want to have a red flag in the files of the insurance companies. Sorry indeed.
As for my hygieny, I take a shower usually twice a day and have nice loooong bathing in sauna once or twice a week. See, I come from the most whitest country in this planet. Yeah. Surprise!!! I am much more white european than you can even dream to be. See, my folks never migrated to or from anywhere. Must be a real bummer for a mixed fella like yourself. But hey, I just take people as they are, so no worries, mate. I don’t judge you.
And more about hygiene, check out what kind of air there was in New York circa 1900. Yeap. During a hot and dry summer the air was dusty from the horse shit on the streets. Same thing in almost all american cities back then. They could not get tha horse crap fast enough from the paved streets so it dried out and became powdered dust which the people then breathed. Hygiene in good ole US way!
And on the hygiene note, check out one of the worst smog catastrophes ever. I give you couple hints: it took place in USA and in the 1940’s.
PS. HIV is not that funny nor is rape, or raping babies. Joking about them that way does not make you look smart. Really. Just a thought.
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Sam—
You belive that HBD is science which it is not.
Race realism=HBD is not a science or academic discipline. It’s certainly not a pseudoscience. It’s a set of conclusions based on the relevant sciences on the subject of racial differences in IQ and what’s likely behind those difference, and also differences in rates per capita of committing crimes, testosterone differences, and other things.
You belive there are gentical/bilogical races when there is only one human race biologically.
That is beyond a stupid statement.
There is incredibly solid evidence that there are genetic /biological races and I’ve shown a lot of it here. I know there are different races as a scientific fact. There is a colloquial phrase that there’s a “human race” really meaning species. We are all one species, yes, of course. We all CAN reproduce with members of all other races, which is one of the main demarcation of the species line at least among mammals. Though we don’t all that often between some of human races (whites and blacks for example) even when living in close proximity.
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brando–
Its like arguing with an extremely over-confident child. Good luck with your superior south african hygeine. If you get aids, you can always rape a baby! Mout.
It is like arguing with over confidant young teenage boys, who are very knowledge light on the subject, yet convinced of their rightness for self interested and “moral” type reasons.
And these idgeots don’t realize that what you last said is an actual quite prevalent black South African belief – and practice.
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http://www.newsfromafrica.org/newsfromafrica/articles/art_5525.html
Yeah, its definitely just me…
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Brando,
Joking about raping babies and AIDS is low. Even if you put that link up, it doesn’t prove that this is an African thing. It’s just the kind of “evidence” that people like you need to hate blacks/Africans because to you one, a few, or some is enough to conclude that all within the group are the same. GTFOH with that BS.
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And Doug,
You can join him. As a matter of fact why don’t you and Brando go to Stormfront like Herneith said. You will have a hell of a lot of support over there. Better yet, check out Chimpout. They look down on black people as much as you do, probably more.
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Sam–
You ignoramus, aids did begin in west Africa it’s now been firmly and clearly determined. IIRC it actually began in small numbers in the 30’s or 20’s a researcher or science writer looking at various research and also history has been able to determine. It came from monkeys where it’s much less deadly for some reason, and may have mutated significantly in humans (making it more deadly among them). (It’s constantly mutating to some degree which is part of what makes it so hard to develop a vaccine against it, though white man Bill Gates is spending a ton of money trying, mostly for the benefit of Africans.)
Aids is also far more prevalent in ssAfrica (black Africa) than anywhere else in the world. 25% of South African blacks have aids.
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brothawolf–
He wasn’t joking about it. He was shaming dumb superstitious and misogynist blacks in Africa about it.
It’s not babies it’s children, so as to be sure she’s a virgin, which many dumbasses over there think will cure them of aids.
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How mature. Resorting to name calling when someone disagrees with you with some information of their own.
Let me make this plain and simple for you, Doug, if you don’t like to be disagreed with, stay away from this blog.
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brothawolf–
There’s skads of people of all races other than blacks who do. There’s a ton to look down on.
Blacks in America and Europe and the Anglosphere (the white world although don’t count Eastern Europe in on this, they’re not very PC about blacks, or Roma (also for good or better reason with the Roma/Gipsies)), are just protected by this PC secular religion/taboo thing which is a product of the left, which they’ve somehow gotten the center and right to mostly adhere to, with respect to publicly breaking the PC taboos. At least among the upper middle class whites and above. Lot less so among Asians and Hispanics.
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Then stay away from them and their blogs. If you look down upon them, stop coming around here with your BS spreading your false HBD idealism because you won’t get any PC shit in here. It’s common sense.
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brothaman–
I don’t mind being disagreed with it all. I just respect it a lot more when it’s done with actual facts rather than adolescent ad hominim, or completely off the point discussion of the court of French Louis XIII or XIV bathing and defecating practices.
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There were quite a lot of Roman soldiers in Britain for a few centuries, and quite a lot of Germanic – Roman interbreeding after the fall of the (western) Roman Empire. Some of those Germanic hybrids may have become Angles, Saxons or Jutes. And so on. There’s been a good lot of Euro intermixing as both history and genetics have shown.
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Holy sh!t Doug is hilarious! He says things like:
“classical period Roman blood”
“albino communist”
Don’t agree with him? You’re a “leftist”! Friggin’ priceless.
He clearly doesn’t realize that there are black people who fall in the “Asians and Hispanics” box.
And before anyone says HBD isn’t pseudoscience, please refer to the actual definition of pseudoscience, at least make an honest attempt at that. Actually, this is why I believe people are wasting their time opening dialog with the likes of Doug1, they go on and on about IQ, crime rates etc and avoid the grimy details that don’t allow for white people (Americans for some reason are notorious for this crap) to come out looking like they didn’t do some really effed up stuff to create these gaps in the first place. Why? Because at their core, its how these individuals value themselves, and if the lies behind the creation of “white” (as we know it) were to come to light then white skin will no longer be social currency, no “off the books” breaks, their images wouldn’t be everywhere, clerks will follow them around the store, being mediocre will no longer cut it, they will not be able to avoid learning about/being influenced by “others”, they will not be “the norm” the generic and default human. And if they have to lie, grandstand and play the victim to preserve it, they’ll do it til their dying breath.
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My conclusion?
Blacks and their supporters her are pathetic. Not as much so as the Haitian, South African black and Rhodesian blacks, but the they’re mostly pure blood and live in black majority and governed societies. Poor them!!!!!!!!
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Radical equalism is obviously by all non censored evidence a total lie.
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Again, I predict my banning, despite my great civility compare to my opponents. My ideas are just to threatening here.
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Actually, history shows and science proves conclusively that a talking white unicorn with wings called Maynard who came from Atlantis led the Aryan people to Mount Corekayjon, where he gave them the gifts of super ingenuity, super intelligence, mega wisdom, super sexual modesty, exceptional self-control, incredible morality and tremendous moderation through his magic glowing horn and patiently showed them how to create the first and the greatest civilization in human history, before he flew away never to be seen again.
This information contained in the secret scrolls which I have personally seen is not in mainstream history books and science literature, because it has been censored by the leftists because it wouldn’t be “PC” to admit Maynard chose White people over other lesser races, so leftists keep the truth hidden from the world.
Anyone who disagrees with any of this is a leftist or a Negro who doesn’t want to accept the truth. I challenge any of you to disprove it. You all fear me and the truth I bring you can’t handle it.
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…You sound very ignorant and uneducated. The oldest human remains were found in Africa.
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Doug
“I don’t mind being disagreed with it all. I just respect it a lot more when it’s done with actual facts rather than adolescent ad hominim, or completely off the point discussion of the court of French Louis XIII or XIV bathing and defecating practices.”
There are loads of sources outside the internet that provide proof to the contrary. We shouldn’t have to prove you anything. As a thinker you should take it upon yourself to examine and consider arguments. But I have a feeling you won’t do that. Yet, you will ask for proof. What the hell kind of proof do you want Einstein?
“Blacks and their supporters her are pathetic. Not as much so as the Haitian, South African black and Rhodesian blacks, but the they’re mostly pure blood and live in black majority and governed societies. Poor them!!!!!!!!”
*Shakes my head*
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brothawolfe–
Provide a contrary example.
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I don’t have to provide someone anything if he says that I’m pathetic and resorts to name-calling like a child.
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I am the 1%. Or less than that.
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First of all, I don’t believe you, and second, why tell me? Why tell anyone?
You know what? I’m tired. It just goes to show that you can’t talk to a troll.
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@ Robert
Thank you for summing up Doug1’s threatening ideas.
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@Robert:
I thought he came from Crackerjoya east of Brooklyn.
I challenge any of you to disprove it. You all fear me and the truth I bring you can’t handle it.
I’d try, but it would take copious amounts of moonshine to do so! I’m shaking and shivering as I type! Any relation to the mighty Cthulu?:
http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQuJsMCmoVLW841fFyksAWOVNZsIE6U4aGrh3JjygrJPcx8gZOT
@Doug: The only thing you have provided here is jokes galore. You have also proven that oxygen thievery should be made a felony over there in the States. The only drawback to that is the gaseous emissions that would ensue as you are full of poopie. Invest in ex lax and toilet paper as you have already cornered the market on those products, you might as well have a monopoly on those items. The gas and poop is indicative of what you are full of. Typing reams of garbage proves nothing except you might be a fast typist, otherwise you are as dumb as a fornicating tree stump. Discuss. I take that back your tirades are too much!
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Pretend to don’t believe away.
Who cares?
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Brothawolf.
you have a lot of patience. I admire that. 🙂
But I don’t see the point in arguing with illogical fools.
and Robert
nice 😀
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Abagond–
What a joke for the weak minded.
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I pretend I won the lottery. You do care else why type reams of manure to a bunch of leftist Negroes? What exactly are you trying to prove? That morons need a voice to? In the words of the greatest cracker to grace this earth:
Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt.
Mark Twain
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@ Doug1
Robert exaggerates for effect but that is pretty much what you sound like to me, like you live in a cotton-candy fantasy world of Wonderful White People.
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@ Doug1
So what is your source for your “fact” that MOST hotels and restaurants in the American North served blacks before the 1960s?
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Nana.
I’m not going to say what I want to say here on Abagond’s blog out of respect for him, but I will say it on my own.
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Doug,
Only someone who’s not right in the head would come to a blog with your mindset and not expect a backlash. That’s like going to a club just to start fights over and over again until somebody bans you.
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[…] Unamused. After being absent for several months after his last futile attempt to argue against Abagond. Why he pops up now must be a troll thing, but anyway, here’s the […]
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I do agree with Abagond on some level that interracial relationships between POC seem to be far less difficult, and any difficulties that do arise have never had anything do with race for me personally. I have generally dated inter-racially, and while I have also dated White men, I prefer a man of color. The more I date, the more strong that preference becomes. There is just something there, an understanding, that I don’t feel (or haven’t yet felt) in relationships with White men that makes closeness come more naturally for me. So if I had my choice right now for a dream man, then no, he would not be White. Granted, if I fall in love with a White man, then he will be my dream man regardless of anything I think right now because there are good-looking and honorable White men who, while they may not be able to fully relate to certain realities of being a minority, will try their best to understand, will defend your honor if someone says something stupid, and will always empathize with you. I just don’t think that it is likely that the man I marry and have children with will be White. The most recent relationship I had, though we remain friends, only made that opinion stronger for me.
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Wow. I just watched an episode of “Politically Incorrect” with Bill Maher and this man on the panel (Will Cain), accused Kerry Washington of “encouraging racial discrimination” by suggesting that affirmative action for universities to help diversify them was beneficial. His argument? It asks people to discriminate based on the color of someone’s skin.
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Whoops. I meant an episode of “Real Time With Bill Maher.” I was thinking of his other show for a moment that got taken off the air for a controversial comment he made about the terrorist attacks.
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I don’t see how this can be true. There are other issues, some are not harmless.
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True. There are other issues. I said that I agree on some level with Abagond because I am not 100% in agreement. I do agree that there is a level of understanding between 2minorities that has the potential to make some aspects of the relationship a lot easier. However, if other parts of the personalities clash, that common minority experience is useless. Though I would prefer a man of color, I have dated and had one of my best relationships with a White man. I don’t rule anyone out. If there is an attraction that we both want to pursue, I will pursue it along with him. Regardless of what racial understanding I would prefer, I would much rather be madly in love with a White man who I am incredibly compatible with who doesn’t fully understand the challenges I may face as a result of my brown skin but can empathize and defend my honor while understanding me deeply on other important levels, all while being the best man he can be for me and our children, than a man of color who understands these challenges but has no desire to be a good man, husband, father, etc. So I do agree with you Jefe that there are other far more important issues in any relationship.
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I wanted to add also that there are White men that I have met who grew up being a minority wherever they lived in the U.S. and can therefore easier relate to what that means on many levels.
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I realized that I should clarify something. I mentioned in another post here on Black mothers and White fathers (while I was in a LT relationship with a White man, who I have recently gotten back together with) that I am normally not as drawn to Black men physically (which one commenter didn’t take so well). So when I say man of color, that has generally meant Latin for me. But I am very attracted to a fair amount of White, Asian, and some Black men (Common, Will Smith, Terrence Howard, though he is 50/50 since his parents both are) as well. But honestly, a connection is the most important thing for me. I have been taking a step back and trying to evaluate why I really had a preference for dating inter racially, why I liked it when a man I am dating has a contrast to my skin, which is dark, so that is really easy to find (not to mention that it seems to me that the White men who really love Black women generally prefer dark-skinned Black women often with natural hair, though I am sure that is not always the case as preferences vary). I find that the White men I have connected with the most are the ones who have either experienced being a minority wherever they lived at one point or have made a special attempt to understand the difference between growing up White in America and growing up a POC in America. However, them not having been a minority anywhere does not seem to lessen the importance of anything else that we have in common. I don’t feel that I have any special preference for White men over other minority men (as that other poster suggested in the BMs & WFs post). I just tend to date inter racially and White men are pretty much everywhere in the U.S. After thinking about it, I really think that there isn’t anything necessarily damaging or harmful about inter racial relationships when the people involved truly care about and respect each other. If anything, the experience can be a little eye-opening. I no longer think that bonding over both being minorities is somehow better. It’s different, yes, and it is a perk, but cannot on it’s own sustain a relationship, making it not the most important thing in the long run. As I grow and as love grows, I think things like that become less important than the force the two of you create. And there was something that got brought up once was when I dated a man who clearly had a thing for brown-skinned women, mainly Black. He was White, and someone mentioned that it was weird to date someone who views you as a fetish object. I never felt like a fetish object. I never felt like an object with him period. People like what they like. Someone having a particularly strong liking for Black women who is not Black does not automatically cheapen the relationship. Are Black men the only men allowed to appreciate the beauty of Black women by birth-right? He was monogamous and well-intentioned. He wasn’t trying to sleep with every Black or brown woman he could. He was just a great guy who had a preference for petite brown women. True, some White men are just trying to “score” a Black, Asian, Indian, etc. woman. However, they are (usually) not difficult to spot if you pay attention for even a week or so, to him and the people he surrounds himself with. There are plenty of Black men who see sleeping with a blonde White woman or an Asian woman, or a Latin woman, etc, in the same light. That just depends on the maturity of the man and what he is looking for at that stage of his life. So I think I have reached a point where I just think it doesn’t matter. The world will say things. That is a given no matter what your situation. But if 2people love each other and feel comfortable with one another, there shouldn’t be this issue of race between the 2of them. They should just both be aware that they will have to be strong enough to brush off the negative opinions of others. And I guess I just feel that there is nothing wrong with it. I feel that you can be very proud of being your race and still have a stronger physical attraction to another in most cases. I know that it doesn’t automatically mean that you hate yourself or being a POC, though I have met people who clearly do and that is truly a sad thing, but that is their demon to battle. I try to learn about my history all the time, which includes White people and more than one type of POC, and my bf laughs at me because I pretty much run to the sun after the winter is over because I don’t like to get too light for my tastes. I don’t care about race mixing or having mixed children as Tyrone seemed to suggest in that post on the “Black mother, White father” post. I don’t care about finding a “good black man.” I care about finding a man that I am drawn to physically, emotionally, spiritually, etc who is good for my life and my future family. I care about that connection. I care about having happy, healthy children period. I may very well end up with a Black man because I am open to pursuing a relationship with any man I have a rapport with. But I am not sure, now that I really look at my dating history, how any of the relationships I have had with a White man (except for one) have been truly harmful to me. And the only reason that one was is because of the type of person he was. Not the color of his skin.
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This blog is incredibly racist because you think white people owe you money?Hilarious. Black people can go back to Africa and build their own country there. There was no black Thomas Jefferson that helped write the constitution. Also, AKON even said blacks should rebuild Africa together. In South Africa blacks are even more racist to white people and by your logic South African blacks should be paying White South Africans reparations since they are in the minority. This blog is what helps contribute to racism in world. I think you will never get unbiased opinion like fact that 13 percent of black in America contribute 49 percent of the crime.
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I would like to add I hope one day the blacks on this blog are red pilled. Bill Cosby sums it up nicely.
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