On Sunday May 14th 1961, on Mother’s Day, 200 nice-looking white people in Anniston, Alabama in the American South, dressed in their Sunday best, tried to kill a half dozen Freedom Riders, both black and white, on a Greyhound bus.
The Freedom Riders rode buses through the South to test Boynton v Virginia, a 1960 Supreme Court decision which said that buses and trains that went between states could no longer separate people by race. All those “Whites Only” and “For Colored Only” signs at their stations had to come down.
But the signs stayed up – and President Kennedy did nothing. Nothing. So the Freedom Riders forced the issue.
The first two buses left Washington, DC for New Orleans on May 4th. They got to Atlanta on May 13th with only a little trouble along the way.
That night they had dinner with Martin Luther King. They wanted him to come. He refused. He said they would never make it through the next state, Alabama.
The first stop in Alabama was Anniston. When the first bus arrived 200 whites appeared with clubs, iron pipes and baseball bats. They ran towards the bus and started pounding on it. They threw stones and broke the windows. They cut the tires.
The bus pulled away, but then whites jumped in their cars to follow the wounded bus.
Outside of town the tires went flat and the bus had to pull over. Whites were already there waiting for it. Little children were sitting on men’s shoulders to get a better view.
Someone threw a Molotov cocktail through a broken window and the bus caught on fire and filled with smoke. The Freedom Riders tried to get out, but the whites forced the doors shut, shouting, “Burn them alive!”, “Roast them!”, “Fry the goddamn niggers!”
A fuel tank blew up, forcing the whites to fall back. Everyone on the bus was able to get out – but then were beaten with bats and pipes.
The second fuel tank blew, sending out a rain of broken glass. The whites drew back again. A state policeman appeared and fired his gun in the air. The violence stopped.
The ambulance came. It took only whites. When the white Freedom Riders saw that, they got out of the ambulance. In the end the ambulance took the black Freedom Riders too.
The hospital refused to help them. It was under orders from the governor. Meanwhile a mob of whites had gathered outside threatening to burn down the hospital if they did not turn over the Freedom Riders.
It seemed like the hospital was going to give in. Just then a black minister from Birmingham, Rev. Fred Shuttlesworth, appeared along with other Christian ministers. They got them safely out of Anniston.
No one died, but one white Freedom Rider never walked again.
Most of those nice-looking white people were Klan. The FBI knew all about it in advance but did nothing to stop it.
See also:
- Eric Etheridge: Breach Of Peace – a wonderful book about the Freedom Riders
- Jim Crow
- civil rights movement
- Martin Luther King Jr
- Elizabeth Eckford – of the Little Rock Nine
- just world doctrine
- bus
- segregation academies – more on Anniston
Of course, those white freedom riders were probably motivated by “guilt”, right Abagond?
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This post sent chills down my spine. I can’t believe people were so horrible. That’s so nice that people could stand for what they believed it -but wow, what a price.
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Well I guess we just need to get over it. Obama is in the White House. jk
That was truly a wild time. When we scream of racism now. We usually are talking about some waitress giving blacks rude customer service.
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Cici, you should read the extended version of this event in “Parting the Waters”. The wiki take on it simply doesn’t do it justice in its horror. We’re talking old men and women being beaten almost to death by a howling mob while the police looked passively on or even, in some cases, actively helped the Klan.
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Many of the Anniston police were themselves Klan. They did nothing to stop this. Nor did the FBI. It was the Alabama state police that stepped in and kept it from becoming an outright bloodbath.
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At this timke, the FBI actually had Klan members on the payroll – supposedly as informants.
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Thaddeus said:
“Of course, those white freedom riders were probably motivated by “guilt”, right Abagond?”
I doubt it. If it were that simple Jim Crow would not have lasted nearly a hundred years. Racism would have died out long ago. Guilt leads whites to deny their racism, to be blind to it, to come up with excuses.
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Stuff like the signs of Tea Partiers, Aiyana Jones, SB 1070, Sean Bell and Oscar Grant testify to how much times haven’t changed.
Why should this be about the motivations of the white people on the bus? Thats centering this whole article around white people.
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Jesus Christ.
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A beastly nightmare. And that’s just reading about it…wow. I can’t imagine the backbone it took to do that. I’m sure there were a lot of people who bailed when they really saw what they were up against! And people think something that ran so deep is just gone *poof* today? Get real.
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I doubt it. If it were that simple Jim Crow would not have lasted nearly a hundred years. Racism would have died out long ago. Guilt leads whites to deny their racism, to be blind to it, to come up with excuses.
😀
It’s worth pointing out that most of those white freedom riders had loooooooooong histories of activism.
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>>And people think something that ran so deep is just gone *poof* today? Get real.<<
Very true. I remember hearing about that incident when I was a kid. My generation, black and white, grew up in that racist environment, and the last couple of years of irrational vitriol called "Obama Derangement Syndrome" has shown me that not many of my generation–white or black– have given up what we were taught then was right.
That won't be gone, I now fear and believe, until the Boomer Generation that was born into it is finally dead.
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Unsurprisingly horrific.
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I hear or watch clips of protesters being beaten by cops and I think that I knew something about racism in that time, but obviously I did not. This is so horrifying, that I cannot believe this actually happened in our own country, how can any human being in the 20th century act like such a beast? No matter how backwards or isolated the area, how can hate be brewed to such astronomical proportions?
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I work with a woman who was one of those Freedom Riders. She tells me the stories of what she endured during those times. She is a professor of Black American history, and manytimes, she laments that all that she endured, the beatings, the humiliation, the suffering, was in fact, not worth it. That it wa all in vain. I cringe when I hear her say this. As she is 70+ years, her body is bearing the injuries and wearing down of that time she spent in marches, imprisonment ie. she is suffering with back injury, mental stress she still bears and headaches. She has shown me the many scars on her neck, shoulder legs and arms, from being cut by bottles, sticks and rocks. She is in a wheel chair. She is one of my heroes. Dr. Brown
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“how can any human being in the 20th century act like such a beast?”
Are we talking about the same 20th century?
Stuff like this was happening all the time… and by and to people of many different colors, nationalities, and religions.
It doesn’t make this any less horrible, by comparison, but let’s be honest, it was a violent century.
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This semester, I’m working with one of the guys who kidnapped the American Ambassador to Brazil back in 1968. He and several of his colleagues – many of whom are also professors at my university – are particular heroes of mine.
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Hey All!
Coming out of lurkdom finally. Love what you’re doing here Abagond.I hope this isn’t derailing matters but all this talk of heros @ thaddeus and Oyan made me hum this tune I’m sure most are familiar with.
There’s a bigot
if you look inside your heart
You should really be afraid
of what you are
There’s an answer
if you look you find no soul
and the brown folks that you know
will move away
And then a bigot comes along
with the strength of carried arms
When you cast their tears aside
because you think they whine and cry
So when you feel they don’t belong
look inside and know you’re wrong
Maybe you’ll finally see the truth
that a bigot lies in you
It’s along road
to election 2012
Barack reaches out a hand
that you won’t hold
you can find out
If you search within yourself
and the bigotry you felt will reappear
And then a bigot comes along
with the strength of carried arms
When you cast their tears aside
because you think they whine and cry
So when you feel they don’t belong
look inside and know you’re wrong
Maybe you’ll finally see the truth
that a bigot lies in you
Lord knows Obama’s hard to follow
but don’t let anyone know why your scared
Hold on there will be tomorrow
nn time Glenn Beck will find a way
And then a bigot comes along
with the strength of carried arms
When you cast their tears aside
because you think they whine and cry
So when you feel they don’t belong
look inside and know you’re wrong
Maybe you’ll finally see the truth
that a bigot lies in you
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You’ve got to let this sink in for a moment…
I think that’s the essential point in this story.
If I got it right, the Freedom Riders were a group of people, black and white, who travelled on a bus together, as peaceful human beings. They did something which is not only a fundamental human right (which should never be subject to any controversy in a civilised society) but it was even perfectly legal by court order.
The Freedom Riders did what is human, just and legal. Not more, not less.
What shocks me most in those stories is that the fascist mob, KKK etc, face so little opposition from bystanders and onlookers. And it’s often the same bystanders who are quick to brag about their heroic achievements in wars when they “liberated” oppressed people in countries thousands of miles away…
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What would have happened differently if as soon as racists appeared with weapons and started attacking, some of the Freedom Riders had used their right to self-defense and sent some of those people to the grave?
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Abagond
You can’t shame a devil.
God works in mysteryous ways. Remember what I said about 9/11 ? This was punishment to whites. 3000 perished, that was warning.
We black people are by nature the righteous. We have love and mercy in our hearts. Black people have a heart of gold, love and mercy. Such a heart, nature did not give to the white race. This is where black people are deceived in whites. We think they have the same kind of heart as us; but the white race knows better. They have kept it as a secret among themselves, that they may be able to deceive the black people.
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wow, this story is just horrible, never heard it till today. Thanks
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King,
“Stuff like this was happening all the time… and by and to people of many different colors, nationalities, and religions.
It doesn’t make this any less horrible, by comparison, but let’s be honest, it was a violent century.”
Are you going to excuse this with “Oh, it was a violent time; people everywhere were going through this kind of stuff!” Even if you say that you’re not trying to make this less horrible by comparison, that’s exactly what you’re doing. And I think you’re aware of this. Also, you do know that your argument is baseless, right? People in certain parts of the world are going through similar injustices as we write; currently, in the 21st century. So, no, it wasn’t a 20th century thing.
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What would have happened differently if as soon as racists appeared with weapons and started attacking, some of the Freedom Riders had used their right to self-defense and sent some of those people to the grave?
Quite simply, they would have been killed and the national media would have spun it as a band of dangerous radicals meets a band of dangerous bigots.
There’s a reason they used non-violence and it wasn’t because they were wimps.
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African Black Militant seems to be a white troll trying to derail this thread. In any case, 9/11 is off topic here so I am deleting all comments on it.
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“and many times, she laments that all that she endured, the beatings, the humiliation, the suffering, was in fact, not worth it. That it was all in vain.”
I was wondering about that.
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African Black Militant said:
“Abagond
You can’t shame a devil.”
I think extremely few whites would be shamed by Anniston:
First, 99% of the white people reading this are writing off Anniston as a Klan thing. The Klan is Not Representative of white people.
Second, it was over 30 years ago so it counts as Ancient History. All that racism just magically disappeared on the afternoon of December 31st 1969. Or something.
More here:
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Shady Grady,
You would have had 30 dead freedom riders.
Then the riders dubbed as communist and little empathy engendered among the rest of the population. J Edgar Hoover ruled in the justice department and many of the activist were on the House of UnAmerican activities list.
He would have made them appear to be terrorist. Just how far would you think that would have advanced the movement. Black people didn’t have the necessary resources to start a revolution and no external government that would risk helping us, with the military power the US had.
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African Black Militant:
Please stay on topic. I just deleted your comment about “the white man blew up the fault lines causing the Earthquakes in Haiti”.
You ARE derailing. You are become a self-parody.
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Shady Grady,
The FBI’s reaction to the Black Panthers.
http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/local/crime/CRIME-HISTORY—Chicago-police-kill-8619049-78455827.html
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Thad:
He has already been told that (what you said in a comment of yours I just deleted).
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More of this story.
http://archives.cnn.com/2001/US/05/10/access.lewis.freedom.rides/index.html
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“Are you going to excuse this with “Oh, it was a violent time; people everywhere were going through this kind of stuff!” Even if you say that you’re not trying to make this less horrible by comparison, that’s exactly what you’re doing.”
I disagree, Natasha. Context does not make something any less horrible, but context is important. Believing that this kind of thing was a freak occurrence in a century full of such atrocities only serves to give you an incorrect perspective of events.
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Forgive my being so “foreign” but why should it be only black people helping? Why didn’t other white Americans, claiming to be decent and courageous people, jump in and make a strong opposition alongside other black Americans, assuming that the KKK is a small minority?
I can imagine that you might see it as a rhetorical question. I’m serious though.
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I think abagond made a good point there: it wasn’t just the klansmen. It was the whole fuckin community! That’s right; all those nice little ladies in their flower dresses and summer hats, kids on their fathers shoulders etc.
That is the whole point here. KKK is bunch of morons but it is the people who tolerate and support it that is the problem. KKK can not survive without this community support. It has to have the backing of the wider community. It is not some mysterious secret society which is selfsupporting. It is a parasite of the racism. It is like a tip of an iceberg.
And to think that cops in America were racists only back then is ofcourse wishful thinking. They still are. That has been documented all over the US even during recent times. From some cops skin color is everything.
Back in the 80’s when I was living over there, me and two black friends were driving in a car. Cops pulled us over and came to us like really ready for anything, hands on their guns etc. When they saw me sitting there the other cop asked from me: is everything ok, sir? Like, are you okay when you sit in a car with two black guys? Why you sit there? Is everything ok? Did they kidnap you or something? Are you there voluntarily?
When I said that everything is ok, this cop looked around real hard, I guess tried to see something which could be a reason for a real shake up, and then looked at me: are you sure, sir? Umh, yessir. I’m fine. By now I was scared of these cops! What the hell is wrong with them? We finally were let go and my buddies laughed at my whiter than usual face. They endure it everyday, every week, every month, every year after year.
So racism is still there. But I also would like to point out that it is not universal or that is has to be that way. There are few of us who have either knowingly or by otherways going against that shit. In my case it is just the belief that we are all human, that the whole concept of races should be written off. I know it is not perfect world but somebody has to work towards it and that somebody can be me or any other white guy.
That being said, I have to also point out that I’m not pretending to be a black nor I believe that I can never know what it is to be a black person in States. Only thing I can be is a white guy who doesn’t tolerate any racism. Period. That is all.
And that being said, I’m not a hippie nor a peacenick, so I have no illusions about this world or abilities of the humanrace in the filed of violence, opression, racism etc. I recognise the evil in me too. I’m not an angel. I have done my share of not so nice things in my youth. But what I have never, never accepted, is the claim that skincolor separates us. It’s been like that since I was a kid.
I don’t know where from it came from, from my home perhaps, I have no clue. But I did fight in our home yard with a bigger boy who tried to bullie one indonesian guy who lived in a same bulding. I was five or six. I was beaten, or course, but the bullying ended there and me and that kid became friends. We still are.
So it can be something we pick up very young. Anti-racism I mean. Just like racism. And we, the white guys, must work against it everyday, not only by words, but most importantly, by our everyday deeds. Nothing fancy, nothing fantastic, just to show everyday that for us skincolor does really don’t mean a thing. Sometimes it is not easy, sometimes it is hard, but if we as white don’t do it, who will? Nobody else.
Sorry about the sermon, abagond 😀
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..”Pasha
Hey All!
Coming out of lurkdom finally. Love what you’re doing here Abagond.I hope this isn’t derailing matters but all this talk of heros @ thaddeus and Oyan made me hum this..”
No offense, but please do not put my name in the same sentence with this person. Thank you.
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King,
“I disagree, Natasha. Context does not make something any less horrible, but context is important. Believing that this kind of thing was a freak occurrence in a century full of such atrocities only serves to give you an incorrect perspective of events.”
I don’t really care if you disagree, honestly. No one said it was a freak occurence: most people here were hardly shocked by this. I think most Americans know that events like this weren’t exactly as rare as Haley’s Comet.
Look, your statement “But that happened to [other people] too!” is a classic way to dismiss certain issues as not as significant because they happened to other people. Here is an example: “Yes, slavery was horrible, but some whites were slaves in the past as well.” I think that was covered here:
Are you white? Or Asian? Or otherwise not black? Some of the statements you make on this blog give an indication that you’re probably not black. Not trying to ad hom, just covering all the bases.
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@ Natasha
co-sign
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Seriously. Imagine the giant sized balls it would take to do something like this. To get on that bus knowing what was going to happen?
They knew and they did it anyway. No weapons or intent to fight back knowing that even the police wouldn’t help. IT”S MIND BOGGLING. I just can’t wrap my head around that type of courage.
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Thaddeus, Hathor
All the same there were black people who were able to insist upon a right to self-defense. Few and far between to be sure but it happened. I think everyone no matter what the condition maintains their right to self-defense. Given that the racists were doing their best to kill them anyways, I’m not sure that exercising self-defense would have changed the opposition’s views. Most of the people running down to attack unarmed non-violent citizens are by definition severe cowards and perhaps the Freedom Riders would have watched some wolves turn sheep once the racists discovered the other guys were armed too.
I know that non-violence can be a useful tactic but there are limits. I respect the cause and salute their courage of the people that did that but I do not think any citizen anywhere anytime should submit to being beaten by other citizens. Period.
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Shady_Grady
I know that non-violence can be a useful tactic but there are limits. I respect the cause and salute their courage of the people that did that but I do not think any citizen anywhere anytime should submit to being beaten by other citizens. Period.
Co-sign.
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Like I said, I’m not a peacenik nor I do believe that men are non violent or that thou shall not defend yourself by any means necessery. But I think Dr King and these guys pulled the pants down from the racists like governor of Alabama and J. Edgar Hoover, aka Aunt Edna (like the men in the FBI used to call him).
Hoover was hoping that blacks would use violence. That was his expertise. King and these guys knew it. When they decided not go that way, Hoover had no weapons left. Same happened for the racist cops and officials in the South. They were ready and willing go at it, tried their damn to get the fighting going on, but it did not pan out. So they ended look like what they were: dumb and vicious racists.
These were some extremely courageous people who knew that the whole machinery of violence was ready for them but did not go for that play. They could have shot back and get killed, but doing that they woul’ve given the racists legitimity for their violence. By refusing to get guns and fight back, they said: we are not like you, we don’t even play your game. We are here for another game all together and this we shall win.
When Black Panthers rose up and picked up the guns, Hoover surely got a boner. This was his game. And the results were the ones he hoped for. I’m not saying that the panthers were not brave. All I’m saying that they fell for the trap by going to the white mans game with white mans rules. When they called for revolution, FBI got what it wanted: green light for murders, legally. And it did use this opportunity. Panthers were murdered, in prisoned, just like the native americans of AIM.
I know that I could have not taken the road these people did in Aniston. I’m too much of a moron. I’ll fight back. I’m also too much of coward. I answer to violence with violence and that is not smart nor the bravest thing to do. What these people did was amazing. It is always easy to fight, it comes naturally as survival instinct kicks in, but this! Try to sit peacefully inside a bus while it is pelted with stones and molotovcocktails!
I coud not do this. Not now nor ever.
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Not to derail, Abagond, but will you do a post on John Brown?
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@Shady_Grady
The finger on the trigger can never solve problems. Only the brain can. There are not only countless examples in history to prove this, it is logical.
What if 100 armed militant bigots were confronted to 10000 unarmed fellow citizens shouting “ENOUGH! NO MORE”…?
Do you assume the bigots will kill them all just to achieve their twisted ideology? If you do you can kiss democracy and freedom goodbye and say hello to fascism.
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Natasha, I’m black, for what it’s worth, but I’m not sure that this question or my answer have much meaning, since I have no idea how anyone could prove that fact on the internet. Even if we met in person, you would have no way of knowing if the person whom you met was the same person who was posting, I suppose.
But, every black person isn’t going to agree 100% on every single post. And beyond that, agreement to posts is not a litmus test for entrance into the “black enough club.” If you disagree, why not just disagree, without the “are you REALLY a black person question,” which is just an old debater’s trick known as “poisoning the well.”
Now, I didn’t come to this thread to downplay it. I came in just as someone posted that they were surprised that such a thing could occur in the 20th Century. My reaction was simply to that comment. The 20th Century was filled with Nazi’s, and Stalinist pogroms, and Cambodian Killing Fields, and the like. My only point was that 20th Century was EXACTLY where such a thing as this fit in.
That was not to diminish this horrible act, but to contextualize it in it’s time. I simply couldn’t see that saying that it was a surprise that it happened in the 20th Century, made sense. I hope that my black card isn’t revoked based on that simple disagreement.
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King, of course all black people aren’t going to agree on everything. If that were the case we’d barely have any discussion on this blog. I asked if you were black because I think it’s relevant: many times if someone feels they can personally relate to a situation or they are somehow tied to it, that gives it more of a sense of significance. Since many black people can probably relate to this event on a more personal level, they wouldn’t feel it necessary to bring up other topics as that would, naturally, lessen the focus on the topic in question.
And still, the century isn’t relevant. Maybe relevant as far as the U.S. is concerned, but not in general. Darfur, Iraq, the Bali bombings, and countless other atrocities happened in the 21st century. You can even ask Mira about Kosovo. And we all know of 9/11. By the end of the 21st century we’ll surely have a list as long as those for the previous century. This isn’t an “it was the times” issue. But if you were just responding to that comment, fine.
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Exactly my point, Natasha, exactly.
Now, when I make an argument that says, “That wasn’t so bad because look at what was happening over here,” then slap me.
But if there is no attempt to see White on Black atrocities in America in the same context of all the other contemporaneous human atrocities, it takes the Black experience out of the overall human experience, and sets it aside as something foreign.
It also give people the impression that we are suffering all alone in our little corner, when the brotherhood of suffering is much larger and the collective experiences, much broader.
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Do you think anyone here believes that the rest of the world has never, ever suffered through anything? Do you think they don’t have a TV or check news online? You’re not dealing with five year olds that need to be taught that there is a world outside of their bubble; you’re insulting the intelligence of the commenters. I’m sure they know that. However, this is what happened here, and the discussion is on this topic.
And I’ve seen you downplay other issues before (whether you’re aware of it or not), but I won’t get into that.
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Actually, I’m not.
It’s not a question of anyone’s intelligence, or an assumption of ignorance, or anything like.
In reality, you have no idea who’s reading and/or what they’re getting out of it. So if someone makes a contextual point, and you think it’s beneath you, or obvious, then why not just skip it, rather than challenging their right or wisdom in saying it?
Again, people have different perspectives, priorities, and sensitivities. Perhaps a comment that you find obvious or insulting to your brainpower may make another person think. The point is, you just don’t know, so why try to turn other people’s points into insults to the “group at large?” There’s no need.
Just accept that other people are coming to the post from other places, and they aren’t all going to see things identical to you do.
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@Oyan
Jeezis! Who farted in your Cheerios?
@Shady
Do a google on the Deacons for Defence.
I’m not one to say that violence is never justified, especially in self-defence. But in this particular instance (Freedom Riders) they got a lot more politcal mileage out of making the south look like a bunch of vicious pinheads.
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Great points ‘Natasha W’, and the thing with what happened in America, is the hypocritical position of ‘all men are created equal”, and, ‘land of the free, home of the brave’ mantra that was posited day in and day out, plus so many other jewels on freedom, peace and liberty……..
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What context king? besides 20th century earth. Which is really broad and general. and seems kind of irrelevent.
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The context is, as I was saying above, seeing black suffering in America, along with human suffering everywhere. I jumped into the hornets nest by simply responding to a comment:
“how can any human being in the 20th century act like such a beast?”
To me, it seemed odd because there was so much of this beastly behavior in the 20th (and now 21st Century) that it seemed to be a contextual mismatch.
So I said, basically, there was a LOT of that in the 20th century.
That was my only point of context. No more.
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King, there is NO need for you to say “Well stuff happened to others too, folks!” Zero need. And you know this: you’re simply grasping at straws at this point.
“Again, people have different perspectives, priorities, and sensitivities.”
LOL, is that so? I guess that’s why you entered and decided for commenters what they should acknowledge or keep in perspective?
You’re the one who would like for others to put this event in the perspective of the “suffering of mankind.” Not I. I, like others, saw that the topic was on Mother’s Day in Anniston and presumed, you know, that Mother’s Day in Anniston just might be the the priority on this post. Just maybe.
“The point is, you just don’t know”
And you, of course, do know that others aren’t keeping this topic in perspective?
“Just accept that other people are coming to the post from other places, and they aren’t all going to see things identical to you do.”
The irony of this statement is succulent. Again, you’re the one who took it upon yourself to make sure commenters don’t get into a tizzy over this and realize it was “just the times.”…I’ll accept that after you do, King. After you do.
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Well, I’m not sure that we’re much on topic as most of our debate is now more about our disagreement and much less about Anniston.
But suffice to say, that adding a comment based on a previous one is NOT the same thing as saying that a comment is an insult to the intelligence of the group.
One ads a new perspective, the other is literally telling someone that it’s a mistake to add their perspective, because it doesn’t reach you personal comment standard.
From your perspective (as I understand it) a discussion about Anniston should not include discussion or awareness about other like incidents in other cultures, or other places. The reason for this is because the discussion of anything else takes attention away from Anniston. OK that’s one perspective.
From my perspective, a discussion about Anniston which includes taking in other similar incidents around the world, (in other places, and cultures) actually brings greater insight into what happened and why. That’s another perspective.
I think that there is room to explore both perspectives without one trying to shut down the other.
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Okay, King: got it. Have a nice night.
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No hard feelings, Natasha.
And the same to you
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@Thaddeus, people like the Deacons for Defense and Robert Williams are exactly to who I was referring. I would guess that most people here would already know who they were which is why I didn’t go into details.
@Femi
Actually force can definitely solve some problems though perhaps that larger discussion is beyond the scope of this post?
Anyway I’m not sure what your question is here
What if 100 armed militant bigots were confronted to 10000 unarmed fellow citizens shouting “ENOUGH! NO MORE”…?
Do you assume the bigots will kill them all just to achieve their twisted ideology? If you do you can kiss democracy and freedom goodbye and say hello to fascism.
It depends on who has the guns and how far they’re willing to go. Certainly an event similar to what you describe happened at Amritsar..
I reiterate that I admire the courage and dedication of the Freedom Riders but I do not admire their tactics. I don’t believe in non-violence as an goal in and of itself. Certainly MLK and like-minded people were 100% correct to point out that many of the people loudly criticizing non-violent direct action were not putting their lives on the line nor were they backing up their talk of self-defense when they had to face the Enemy.
That said I don’t hold with any philosophy that would tell a man or woman to accept blows without striking back. Perhaps most people here have already read this book but James Cone goes into a pretty deep analysis of the different religious and moral underpinnings of the different understandings of violence between MLK and Malcolm X here.
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With a heavy heart, as a mother, sister, daughter and American, the pain of those who lived through this ordeal wrenches me. I would like to leave it at that. What person, except for those mentally diseased, could not be horrified. And yet. And yet. I live where the majority of people would say to me, in fact do, when I remind them of recent history, yes, that’s horrible, but it was yesterday, let’s move forward. Part of me has stopped trying to educate my community so they understand the horrors some Americans live with in very personal ways. We can’t forget, and it’s why I lecture my sons about behaving, they will, (have been), the first to be assumed at fault, the instigators. I hate it. But, I also recognize that my comfortable middle class neighbors, won’t ever change. They do not see themselves as racists. Become immediately defensive. And I have only alienated them by trying to point out how and why legal racism, government enforced torture, as demonstrated on May 13, 1940, matters, why it needs to be recognized. No one would dare tell a Jewish person to ‘get over it.’ But that’s what I hear. I don’t want to grow bitter. What do I do with this information you have shared? I feel even more at a loss now than I ever have before. If there is no way for the American citizen to understand then why do we keep trying, knowing that it will end in a face off. I am ashamed to say this, but I am tired of fighting. I feel like my mom, a housekeeper, who just trudged along, with her dignity, but kept quiet. I would say that you probably wouldn’t believe the things I’ve heard, but I’m sure you have. Last week someone told me that the American genocide of First Nation people, wasn’t really that, since “there really weren’t that many Indians here,” that the “numbers don’t qualify.” I was, as always, dumbfounded. People choose to believe what suits their agenda. God Bless Hank Thomas. God Bless You, Abagond.
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Femi,
The number of white people who had joined the cause would not have been enough.
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Shady Grady,
As I said those 30 would be dead and your righteousness would not have gotten us out of Jim Crow.
I don’t believe in revolution for the ego, once has to be prepared. It would have taken guerrilla war which at that time, very few Black people had had any exposure. One would have needed military weapons which were not as available as they are today. Then there was the issue of enough people to fight.
Do you remember how well the Hungarians fare, trying to prevent a Soviet takeover? They took up arms with the instigation of the US and the US didn’t come to their support. Who was going to come to support us?
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I am in favor of judging all matters using a set standard of internationally agreed upon self-evident, immutable, rights for each individual, regardless of nationality or gender or race or age or sexual orientation. Arguing over the degree of wrongness or severity, when one group encourages the death, or abuse, of other groups, or individuals, is like fighting over a crumb of bread when there is a room of hungry people.
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In my experience, changing mind-sets, is generational. Some will never get it, in their time and age. It’s why changing school texts and institutional biases’ is so critical. We can demand people to change, but that doesn’t work. Sometimes, just staying alive is what is needed, staying a presence. If you are in jail, dead, or too beaten down to participate in social change, then your presence is twisted into the ground by the sole of a shoe.
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Another example of how non violent action can be more effective than guns is what happened at the Baltic states when Soviet Union collapsed. People just told to Moskow Bye bye. The response was of course that of an state machine geared to terror. If any state was based on opression, it was Soviet Union. And they were ready.
Moskow send in the tanks, the paratroopers, KGB, special forces. They fixed fake terrorist attact on the HQ of the Baltic fleet in Riga, Latvia, they put tanks on the streets of Tallinn, Estonia, they even killed some peaceful demonstrators in Lithuania. What the people did?
In Estonia they sang, littlerally. Hundred of thousands of people sang national anthem openly. What you gonna do? Kill thousands of people because singing?
In Riga they formed their own parliament. Same thing in Lithuania. In Estonia. People in these three tiny Baltic states formed a human chain across the land. Hundreds of thousands of people, more if I remember correctly, held hand in hands across their borders from north to south. What you gonna do? Kill people for holding hands? Hundreds of thousands of them?
You got your tanks, soldiers, agents ready. You shoot people. You scare them. You drive over them by tank. And the people do not care. They just go on living like you are not there. They talk to your soldiers, your tank crews. They don’t attack them. They don’t give a chance to declare a marshall law or war. What you gonna do? You go home eventually. And that is what happened in Baltic states early 1990’s.
In Chechenya people took up guns. They had the same right as in Baltic states to get their independece. They chose another route. They are still fighting over there, after almost twenty years of war. Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania are indepedent states and members in European Union. Estonia and Lithuania are members in NATO. They’ve had peace and independece for almost two decades now.
Sometimes the strategy of non violence is truly mightier than guns. Like Hathor said: it would’ve been a guerilla war against the whole US state apparatus. Dr King and these guys knew this. I don’t think they wanted to be beaten and terrorized, killed, but they had their focus on the goal, how to get there. In those circumstances non violent resistance was more effective strategy.
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@ Hathor
More white Americans wouldn’t even have to join the cause itself. What I meant is white people non-violently opposing the terrorism of a group of psychopaths. To go out there in large numbers to their most relevant local authorities and insist to help stop the insanity. In French we call it “courage civil”. In a true democracy it should never be a problem.
Now if the majority silently agree that bigotry is acceptable and let a bunch of lunatics do the “dirty work”, unfettered by the authorities, then I’ll repeat myself. It’s fascism.
As for roxane’s comment that changing mindsets is generational, well – it depends on how you get the message across. It requires education. Nobody is too old or too stubborn to learn something. You can’t let those “who’ll never get it” become an obstacle or an excuse to never even start. Of course, if “uneasy” topics are wiped under the rug, twisted or sugar-coated by literature and the media you won’t get anywhere anytime soon. And the immature name-calling of those who dare touching hot topics from the humanistic end of the spectrum doesn’t help either.
If the so-called “freedom of speech” (which those hate groups always love referring to) doesn’t go both ways there’s not much freedom to begin with…
Anyway, I think we’ll always somehow get our wires crossed across the big pond.
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@ sam
Co-signed.
I might add the hundreds of thousands of unarmed East Germans who went out in the streets shouting “We are the people” until the Berlin wall fell. If I remember well, nobody was killed during that time.
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Hathor, I did not say anything about revolution. That’s your interpretation. I am only discussing the right of self-defense.
Every American citizen , every human being on this planet , has the right to defend himself.
Loving your enemy is pathological. Self-defense is not.
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@Femi, the attitude I run into the most is numb banality. If I scratch the surface, I’ll find a person who will agree, on a personal level, that all people have equal access to the rights guaranteed by our Constitution, but once we start enlarging that idea to include education, housing, etc., the issue goes from equality to a type of protectionism that divides the world as those who have, (them), and those who want to take it away (minorities). True, if a person is willing, then age and stubbornness can be overcome. But I would add, that for many understanding how racism, mired as it is to our history, has shaped who they are, is a struggle. Only the most blatent examples are seen as defining bigotry.
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And still, the century isn’t relevant. Maybe relevant as far as the U.S. is concerned, but not in general. Darfur, Iraq, the Bali bombings, and countless other atrocities happened in the 21st century. You can even ask Mira about Kosovo. And we all know of 9/11. By the end of the 21st century we’ll surely have a list as long as those for the previous century.
I agree. The 20th century was a really violent one. One would say the most violent, but the truth is, it was because of the new technology, weapons, etc. than the increased human evilness. But it was really violent, so it’s not surprising at all to see things like Anniston happening. *
* Of course, that doesn’t make them ok or less horrible, but the century has nothing to do with it.
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Shady Grady,
I didn’t realize this post was about self defense.
Most black people didn’t think of civil disobedience as loving ones enemy.
Certainly not any members of SNCC or CORE.
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There is now doubt in my mind that non-violence can be one of the most effective tactics in the world. History has definitely proven this.
But it only works when your political target is already pre-disposed to see you as human. This was the case of the British in India in the 1940s and the white north in the 1960s. It was not the case, say, of the white north in the 1920s or white South Africa in the 1960s.
So non-violence is not a panacea, anymore than violence is.
What’s so impressive about MLK is that he correctly judged the national and international mood and selected the right tactics for it.
Not to be down on rvolutionary violence, which is sometimes necessary, but too often the impetus for this comes straight from certain young men’s gonads and not from any sober or realistic evaluation of the political situation and the possibilities inherent in this, a la Marx and Lenin. The late Black Panther Party was an example of this sort of revolutionary machismo, though to give the BPP their due, by the time they reached that stage, COINTELPRO had done so much to disrupt them that they weren’t functioning as a cohesive political movement.
The Revolution only occurred in 1917 in Russia, for example, because the non-violent attempts to reform that state in 1905 had been destroyed at bayonet point.
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“But it only works when your political target is already pre-disposed to see you as human.”
I was thinking that as well.
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Excuse me, but is this the same country that enacts the obligation for a transportation company “to affirmatively certify whether it had any direct involvement in the deportation of anyindividuals to extermination camps […]”?
And it didn’t stop its own citizen to try to kill Freedom Riders?
This is just confusing, isn’t this the same “death at the end of the road”?
And please, spare me the Goodwin point.
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Well, the main problem there is “state’s rights” – which many of you may well recognize from current Tea Party rhetoric.
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You can’t shame a devil.
blackmilitant: you aint never lied.
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black people think we are dealing with normal people like ourselves. that is why white people are able to checkmate us at every move we make. what else do they have to do to us before we learn what we are dealing with here on earth? black men and women want to marry them, have kids by them and live next door to them. they act sooo normal AND NICE! LOL!! CHECKMATE!!
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…one white Freedom Rider never walked again.
His name was Walter Bergman.
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I didn’t really learn much about the Freedom Rides until well after I actually moved out of the USA in the 1990s, but then I realized probably no other event had such an impact on my life – it explained so much about the relationship between my family and my mother’s relatives.
My mother, a white woman, was born and raised in Anniston, Alabama. In 1960, she got pregnant with a man with parents from a different race and national origin in Washington, DC. Abortion was illegal, so she married him (despite it being illegal in neighboring states like Virginia or Maryland and especially her home state of Alabama). I was born in 1961 just before the Freedom Rides, but my mother told me that she had a violent fight with my father when I was a baby and took me down on the bus to Anniston to flee to her parents. But later she went back to my father (although, a couple decades later they would still get divorced).
But I finally pieced it together just before my mother died in 1998. She told me the story of how her parents refused to let her back in to stay with them at that time. Decades later, on the one hand she condemns her parents for not helping her leave my father, but on the other hand, she had no other choice but to go back to him.
Later I figured out that it was during the Freedom Rides. Anniston had just experienced the ugly turning point of its history, and here was my mother trying to bring her mixed-race baby back into parents’ house. Indeed, what would the neighbors think! Her parents saw themselves as respected members of the community and they could not allow such a shameful thing in their house, which might not only bring them disgrace but even attract violence!
My family still managed to attract plenty of violence in Washington, DC and Maryland!
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[…] Source: Mother’s Day in Anniston […]
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Another interesting video on the Freedom ride from Washington, DC to Anniston, AL.
AMERICA IN COLOR: The Heinous 1961 KKK Attack on the Freedom Riders
https://www.smithsonianchannel.com/videos/the-heinous-1961-kkk-attack-on-the-freedom-riders/56903
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To this day white people are still as evil as in 1961. Most cops prove this and what people don’t know is the white evangelicals are just if not more …evil.
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