White Americans seem to apply special rules when reading about history or the news. Since I was not invited to the Secret Course on Whiteness, I have to piece together the rules and ideas based on observation of White Americans. This is very much a work in progress.
Rules & Important Concepts:
- Black people do bad things because they are black. When white people do bad things it is because they made a mistake, got passed over at work, had a bad childhood, need help or whatever. Apart from a few bad apples, it never has to do with race. Because whites are not affected by their race. But blacks are: they have dark, savage hearts that drives some of them to rape and murder and other cruel and senseless things for no particular reason. Because that is how black people are.
- Savage Black Rule: Africa is screwed up because blacks are incapable of self-rule. Look at Zimbabwe!
- Black pathologies: black ghettos are screwed up because black people are screwed up.
- The Teflon Theory of White History: Anything that took place over 30 years ago is Ancient History. It has Absolutely No Effect on the present. Unless it was something good like the light bulb or the Declaration of Independence. Otherwise white people are only affected by history through their families, nothing else, and for not more than a generation. So even Jim Crow is now Ancient History, just like the Battle of Thermopylae.
- Living in the Past: anyone who disagrees with Teflon Theory.
- Dead Indian Land: a place that it is bad manners to talk about and dangerous to think about.
- Basically Good – what white people are despite their ugly past. Because of Teflon Theory they are not only protected from the ugly side effects of genocide, Jim Crow and slavery (what black people call “racism”), but even from the Fall of Adam (what Christians call “original sin”). So when whites do something bad it is not evil – just a well-meaning mistake.
- “It was the times” – yes, white people did do some terrible things in the past, but since whites are Basically Good it must have been the times. Unless:
- “Arab traders did it too!” – It is a rule with White Americans that if Arab traders did something, then it is morally all right – or at least Not All That Bad.
- Just World Doctrine: America is basically just because it is run by white people who are Basically Good. That means they exercise power, both home and abroad, fairly and for the good of all.
- Love to Complain – what black people do despite the Basic Goodness of society (see Just World Doctrine) and despite the fact that it is Not As Bad As It Used To Be (over 30 years ago).
- White people understand racism better than blacks – because blacks Love to Complain.
- Read mainly White American writers. They are more fair-minded than black or foreign writers.
– Abagond, 2010.
See also:
Abagond 
Depressing that this is how society is, but everything you said is 100% true…only worse when in action.
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What about the black and other racialized people who subscribe to this type of behaviour?
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@herneith
that reminds me of my sister…
i had her look at this website of racist republicans who constantly bad mouthed blacks. and she didn’t even condemn it. i guess she really wants to believe the republicans are God and will justify their overt racism because it creates less conflict for her.
i think my sister forgets that she is half black because she is so determined to be part of the white club.
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Here goes a brief synopsis
Reading points
1-3
How difficult it is to seperate skin colour from behaviour and/or skin colour determines behaviour
4-6
The ‘subjectivity’ or perhaps ‘selectivity’ of history (ie euro-centred)
7-12
Whites perception of themselves…
Just thought I would do that since I did not have much else to say he he he
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After the disgusting behavior by the white people at the protest against health care reform , in Washington DC, with their spitting and using racial slurs at black congressmen and one gay congressmen, I say, yeah, dont trust white people at all.
Let them demonstrate one by one that they dont have this kind of mentality.
As an American, that is one disgusting shaming act of blatent racism that needs to make all American look around and ask “where are we really at about racism and discrimination in this country”.
Newt Gingrich said something like passing this health care reform was the worst thing to happen since LBJ passed the Civil Rights Bill. The republican party is showing more and more how deep scum bags they are. They are the ones who brought America to its knees in this financial crisis and wars for nothing.And now showing how purly racist they are.
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1.Black people do bad things because they are black.
In the US the murder rate among blacks is 7 times the murder rate among whites. Why would anyone think blacks — as a race — are inherently more violent?
When white people do bad things it is because they got passed over at work, had a bad childhood, need help or whatever.
Sorry. But being of victim of society is the leading excuse for black misbehavior. Meanwhile, there is no public support for whites who commit violent or despicable crimes. Among whites there is a willingness to accept the fact that a person is guilty and must pay the price.
2.Savage Black Rule: Africa is screwed up because blacks are incapable of self-rule. Look at Zimbabwe!
Zimbabwe? That’s only the tip of the iceberg. As I’ve said, the sad fact of black reality is the total absence of a successful black nation anywhere in the world at any point in history.
3.Black pathologies: black ghettos are screwed up because black people are screwed up.
Before ghettos were ghettos, they were occupied by whites who moved out as blacks moved in. East NY, in Brooklyn, was once a vibrant Jewish neighborhood that produced numerous scholars and NY City leading lights. After it became a black neighborhood, it became the site of the city’s highest murder rate.
4.The Teflon Theory of White History: Anything that took place over 30 years ago is Ancient History.
More or less true. Like the riots in Watts, the riots in Detroit, the riots in South Central LA.
It has Absolutely No Effect on the present. Unless it was something good like the light bulb or the Declaration of Independence.
True. Since we still use lightbulbs and we still aspire and revere the ideals expressed in the D of I, both are items from the past that are part of life in the present.
So even Jim Crow is now Ancient History, just like the Battle of Thermopylae.
Correct.
5.Living in the Past: anyone who disagrees with Teflon Theory.
Correct
6.Dead Indian Land: a place that it is bad manners to talk about and dangerous to think about.
Wrong. We can discuss it all day long. Anyway, it is a red herring. There is no white guilt over the impact of Manifest Destiny on the Indians. If there were, whites would move out of their homes and invite the Indians to move in.
7.Basically Good – what white people are despite their ugly past. Because of Teflon Theory they are not only protected from the ugly side effects of genocide, Jim Crow and slavery (what black people call “racism”), but even from the Fall of Adam (what Christians call “original sin”). So when whites do something bad it is not evil – just a well-meaning mistake.
Whites feel no guilt for events or social conditions they themselves did not create.
8.“It was the times” – yes, white people did do some terrible things in the past, but since whites are Basically Good it must have been the times.
Again, whites feel no guilt for a past that was managed by preceding generations. Do blacks feel guilty about Rwanda? Or about any other mass slaughters committed by blacks in Africa in the last 50 years? Do blacks feel individual guilt about the outrageously high black murder rate?
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First three points are all down to “Black people do bad things because they are black”. It’s in their nature. That’s why they commit crimes and act like savages (2) when they rule, or anywhere where there’s a black majority (3). There are bad white people, yes, but those are bad white individuals. Even if there are many of them, they are not bad because they’re white (how could THAT be?), but because they are bad as individuals. Bad black people are not bad individuals- it’s in their blood (skin?) so to speak. Any good black person is an exception to the rule.
Teflon Theory
To be completely honest, I must admit I sometimes have this image of Americans in general being victims of Teflon Theory. This stereotypical image I have is not something I’m proud of. What I’m saying is, not all Americans are like this, but there’s this stereotypical image of an American who cares only about himself and USA and knows nothing about other cultures and time periods; even worse- he doesn’t even care. Because others are not important. Now I realize many whites see their fellow non-white Americans as the others and treat them as such. I don’t know what non-white Americans think and feel about this matter (how they see “others”).
6. Dead Indian Land: a place that it is bad manners to talk about and dangerous to think about.
???? I didn’t understand this one.
“Arab traders did it too!” – It is a rule with White Americans that if Arab traders did something, then it is morally all right – or at least Not All That Bad.
Which is, if nothing else, void as an argument because Arabs are Caucasians too (well, most of them anyway).
Just World Doctrine: America is basically just because it is run by white people who are Basically Good. That means they exercise power, both home and abroad, fairly and for the good of all.
Of course. Sure, that’s all because of democracy and freedom. No other countries have that.
Love to Complain – what black people do despite the Basic Goodness of society (see Just World Doctrine) and despite the fact that it is Not As Bad As It Used To Be (over 30 years ago).
In other words- stop whining! What do you guys want? You have it all! You are free, you have all rights, you even have affirmative action and the president is black! What more do you want???
White people understand racism better than blacks – because blacks Love to Complain.
Or because they are just naturally smarter and more rational than blacks?
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@no_slappz:
Do you like to continually chat a load of s***?
I’m just wondering.
Oh btw have you got any proof of these things!?
No, I won’t except your vitriol of long winded avoidances!
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With regard to:
As I’ve said, the sad fact of black reality is the total absence of a successful black nation anywhere in the world at any point in history.
Just for clarification purposes, are you saying there has not been any successful Black nation from c.3, 000 BC or thereabouts to present?? You remind me of the historian Arnold Toynbee who said the same thing ha ha
And
With regard to:
” 6.Dead Indian Land: a place that it is bad manners to talk about and dangerous to think about.
Wrong. We can discuss it all day long. Anyway, it is a red herring. There is no white guilt over the impact of Manifest Destiny on the Indians. If there were, whites would move out of their homes and invite the Indians to move??
If there is no ‘guilt’ associated with the process, theN what ‘adjective’ would you use’, as well as how do you re-dress the ‘imbalance’ for the Native Americans…or does not one??
Cheers!!
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j, you wrote:
Just for clarification purposes, are you saying there has not been any successful Black nation from c.3, 000 BC or thereabouts to present??
Let’s put it this way, if there has been a successful black nation, it has left no legacy. Thus, the success it enjoyed did not descend through the ages.
On the other hand, the modern world has taken a lot of cues from the past, particularly when it comes to science, math, and government. Where are the black nations that have capitalized on the accumulated wisdom of man?
Regarding Indians, you wrote:
If there is no ‘guilt’ associated with the process, theN what ‘adjective’ would you use’, as well as how do you re-dress the ‘imbalance’ for the Native Americans…or does not one??
Succeeding generations of whites have RECOGNIZED historical inequities and attempted to right the wrongs. That is not guilt. That is an effort to be fair.
Thus, Indians have been given many privileges and benefits unavailable to others. Indians have received billions of dollars from resource rights, casino permits and special tax exemptions.
Alaskan natives receive a hefty check from North Slope oil revenue even though almost no natives live near the drilling sites. Sweet deal.
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I knew that there was an undercurrent or racism within those tea partiers. They just confirmed it.
Michael Savage is one of few people who are blatant about his racist stance. I listen to him because I like to know the mindset of the “others”.
He is always demeaning miniorities. Minimizing the Civil Rights Movement and slandering Dr. Kings name.
If you ever want real insight as to how they think, Youtube him.
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vindicator, you wrote:
Do you like to continually chat a load of s***?
I’m just wondering. Oh btw have you got any proof of these things!?
Your chief impediment is your industrial-strength ignorance of so many topics. I deal in facts, therefore it is easy to verify almost every comment I make.
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Cheers No_Slappz,
Just one thing, even from your perspective, and I am sure you would be able to recognise this and even agree, viz. that civilizations like eveything else in life is in a state of flux (never still).
During the times of the Roman empire, the Romans used to look down on the British and over just a thousand years – which is a very short time in history – the British had an empire even larger than the Romans, and one that even the sun could never set upon (because it was so large).
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@slappz:
Are you posting on company time?
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LOL. It’s funny because it’s true Abagond.
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I love this article. lol
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“As I’ve said, the sad fact of black reality is the total absence of a successful black nation anywhere in the world at any point in history.”
People have already pointed Ghana, Barbados, Senegal ect… but you still repeat the same talking points. Just because you don’t believe it doesn’t mean it never existed.
Which leads to another white delusion: If it doesn’t directly affect them then it doesn’t exist.
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@Y:
That is his clarion call; “Show me a successful black nation!” It sounds like a broken record, LOL!
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y,
Your claims that Senegal, Ghana and Barbados are “successful” is problematic.
With respect to other black nations, they are measurably better. But by the standards set by the leading nations of the world, they are not.
If you look at the economies of these “successful” black nations, you will see they are extremely fragile and depend mainly on the good luck of having natural resources available to sell to the leading nations of the world.
AIDS is a HUGE problem in Africa, and it affects enormous percentages of the populations in every country. Botswana, though also considered “successful”, is overrun with AIDS.
The cost of treating AIDS and everything else it brings to existence in these countries is more than enough to bankrupt all of them.
Thus, no matter what you think, for their survival, these “successful” black nations depend on free drugs or deeply discounted drugs from America and Europe.
Barbados, with 250,000 citizens, seems to be the top of the heap.
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Y:
You are wasting your breath with No Slappz. He will find something wrong with every country you name.
First he says Africa does not take advantage of their resources and holds up Norway as a success story for getting rich off of its oil. But then when Gabon or Botswana get rich off of their resources, they are dismissed.
He cannot hold an argument but even worse he is not intellectually honest.
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If America were mostly black I am sure No Slappz would be quick to point out how “fragile” the American economy is, which almost crashed in 2008 and is not out of the woods yet.
White bankers nearly drove America into the ground, but of course when white people screw up they are never “white”. Their race is never pointed out.
But if a black country screws up it is BECAUSE they are black.
See the difference?
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“He cannot hold an argument but even worse he is not intellectually honest.”
He is intellectually honest. Too bad he doesn’t know what he is talking about most of the time, LOL!
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No, he is dishonest. He only admits the facts that suits his beliefs.
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This is interesting. I always thought he truly believes in what he writes. Then again, I stopped reading his comments a while ago, so maybe I missed a lot of important stuff.
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^Yup, him and RR, apparently. Brothers from another mother.
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LOL
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I find it odd that No Slappz often brings up the 800,000 killed in the Rwandan genocide but never the millions, MILLIONS, killed by Hitler and Stalin. Why is that?
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I don’t know about Hitler, but I remember he did mention he hated communism, and he did mention “crappy nations” (that can be considered both non-white and white), so my guess is he doesn’t see all whites as his own group.
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This is the reason why I love this blog!
All you said above, also fits perfectly on european society…
They will never know what this “complaining”(i would call it “a way to ease our pain”) means, unless the roles become inverted.
Hope they’ll start developing some empathy…
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Abagond, you are right.
Let it be know that Africa is a diverse continent. Anyone that knows anything about the impact of HIV/AIDS knows that Southern Africa has been hit the hardest. They will also tell you that Senegal along with Uganda and many other African nations successfully avoided the AIDs epidemic.
no_slappz your deflections dont work over here sweetie! You decided to bring up the AIDs epidemic but the countries I cited don’t have high levels of HIV, making your claim bunk.
Try again, better luck next time! b
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Oh great, so Aids was going to be his excuse for every single country in black Africa? Wow.
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“I find it odd that No Slappz often brings up the 800,000 killed in the Rwandan genocide but never the millions, MILLIONS, killed by Hitler and Stalin. Why is that?”
The holocaust was legally sanctioned by Hitler according to him, discrimination was enacted into law leading to the holocaust. With the Hutus and Tsutsi, they let their ‘savage’ nature take over as they had nothing better to do according to him.
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Oh right: when blacks kill people they are savages but when whites do it on a vaster scale they are not. You cannot have it both ways: if Rwanda “proves” something about blacks, then Hitler and Stalin “prove” something about whites. And if Hitler and Stalin prove nothing about whites, then neither does Rwanda prove anything about blacks.
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But Hitler and Stalin were aberrations. Remember, Blacks are just evil as a whole race. See #1 Black people do bad things because they are black!
You know, your list proves exactly where the asinine and backhanded compliments “But you don’t seem black,” or “You’re so articulate.” When the rule is you’re an evil savage any thing that isn’t a snarlling monster is immediately an exception.
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@poetess
Exactly I mean Obam gets it all the time “he speaks so well” shock gasp amazing. I mean look at the previous president Bush not very articulate but you never heard people go on about his speaking abilities
And if you do display some type of anger you are automatically put back in tht small box of what they consider blackness to be with the comment “you are just like them.”
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To Aiyo:
I mean look at the previous president Bush not very articulate but you never heard people go on about his speaking abilities
I have read plenty of articles alluding to George Bush’s speaking abilities (or lack thereof..) currently there are 5.8 million Google hits for George Bush bad speeches.
http://www.google.com/#hl=en&q=george+bush+bad+speeches&aq=9&aqi=g10&aql=&oq=george+bush+ba&gs_rfai=&fp=1dc62da33e2ff469
and 2.5 million for
George Bush bad speaker
http://www.google.com/#hl=en&q=george+bush+bad+speaker&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq=&gs_rfai=&fp=1dc62da33e2ff469
There’s a youtube series by a doctor who believes Bush’s public speaking abilities deteriorated from the time he was first elected governor of Texas to the time he was elected President.
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Bermuda, Cayman islands, Turks and Caicos, Aruba, Bahamas are stable beautiful successful Black countries.
And there has never been a war in the Caribbean between the islands unlike Europe, and other areas heavily populated by Whites..
Abagond, you also need to add to this post the myth that White people have perfect lives, in perfect countries an run everything smoothly.
Growing up around White people my whole life, I saw screw ups from them in all areas of life from the get go….Not saying they’re all like that. I’m saying that they aren’t better than us.
The Titanic tragedy was an example of pure stupidity and sheer incompetance
The recent opening of Heathrow Terminal 5. Sheer incompetance and disastrous. Read about it!
British MPS corruption scandal where they milked the system blind.
The haphazard and disorganised Colonial disasters of the British Empire that wreaked havoc and irrepareble damage on millions worldwide
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There’s a youtube series by a doctor who believes Bush’s public speaking abilities deteriorated from the time he was first elected governor of Texas to the time he was elected President.
Maybe he started drinking and snorting cocaine again.
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To Herneith:
Maybe he started drinking and snorting cocaine again.
I am trying to find the youtube series.. the doctor definitely thought that the accumulated effects of past substance abuse had caught up with Bush. He compared his behavior to ex-addicts he had treated, who were still clean, but who had basically damaged their brains in such a way that their mental capacity was reduced more quickly when they aged than among people who had never been abusers.
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He must have been a prolonged and heavy user it it affected him in that manner.
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@Herneith:
*snort*
Good one. 😉
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To Herneith:
He must have been a prolonged and heavy user it it affected him in that manner.
I think to some degree, at least with alcohol, he admitted as much.
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If he was brain damaged in some way, that would explain the baffled look on his face and his poor language skill people talk about. i am not that familiar with his speeches.
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Oh, wow. This stuff is so true. Keep it coming. I am loving it.
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Grenda said:
Bermuda, Cayman islands, Turks and Caicos, Aruba, Bahamas are stable beautiful successful Black countries.
itsmeagain said:
You’ll probably hear the argument that these nations, that were colonized by whites, are successful (stable) ONLY because of the former white rule that laid the foundation for them to build on.
Typically, if a black person is opposite of the stereotype of incompetent, shiftless, and savage, they are usually explained away by racists by being “heavily influenced by white culture”. I’ve been told this to my face. Again, any deviation of the image of the black race as a failure is an “exception to the rule”.
Those who argue that blacks are inherently intellectually inferior often point to the (varied) European admixture of American blacks versus the (varied and arguable) purity of African blacks. To them, because a lot of American blacks have higher admixtures of European blood, they are often more “intelligent, better adjusted, and less savage (civilized)” than Africans. We are not as “bad off” as Africans because of our close proximity to whites. In their minds, if it weren’t for them, we’d fall to pieces because the virtues of intelligence, self-control and logic simply aren’t in our nature.
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how do you guys do the italics and bold face stuff? i know someone said it once on a different post, but i don’t know what post that was.
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@alwaysright101:
Hope this help. I copied and pasted this from abagond’s comment section.
Italics: Put at the beginning of what you want to italicize and at the end.
Boldface: Put at the beginning of what you want to make bold and at the end.
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Oh, shoot! That didn’t work. Here’s the link alwaysright1o1.
https://abagond.wordpress.com/comment-policy/
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It took me several months to be able to do this without copying the symbols used, hahaha!
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Good Lord, Abagond, you rocked it with this post, and once again, got a spotlight on my blog.
Fantastic.
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no_slappz said
vindicator, you wrote:
“Do you like to continually chat a load of s***?
I’m just wondering. Oh btw have you got any proof of these things!?”
“Your chief impediment is your industrial-strength ignorance of so many topics. I deal in facts, therefore it is easy to verify almost every comment I make.”
Yet you never seem to verify your facts! No links or anything. Just “I said so.” Grow up little boy and let the adults speak!
Please verify your facts with some links to actual evidence or shut up!
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abagond, you wrote:
First he says Africa does not take advantage of their resources and holds up Norway as a success story for getting rich off of its oil. But then when Gabon or Botswana get rich off of their resources, they are dismissed.
You really, really, really need to learn more about economics. It appears you have no grasp of economic realities beyond a few superficial factors.
Unfortunately, because you know so little about economic matters, you call me intellectually dishonest, rather than examining the facts.
The population of the US is about 300 million and the population of Europe is probably 400 million. Meanwhile, the population of Africa is about 800 million.
In Africa, every year, the number of people who die from drinking unclean water is about 5 million. In the US and Europe combined, it is about ZERO.
You seem oblivious to the telling nature of these numbers. However, to cover your lack of knowledge, you hang your hat on the minor successes in Botswana and Gabon.
The population of Botswana is 2 million and almost 25% are HIV + or have AIDS.
Gabon has a population of 1.5 million and also has a huge AIDS problem. The median age is about 20 and the expected life span is 53 — one of the lowest in the world.
The fact that Gabon and Botswana both have per-capita GDPs around $15,000 makes their stories all the sadder. As I have said, if they were to pay fair market price for the medical services they need to fight AIDS and all the other diseases resulting in the staggering death toll in both countries, they would both have to declare bankruptcy.
Again, the two countries account for only 3.5 million out of 800 million. Not enough to matter. And even with the relatively high GDPs — for Africa — the two countries suffer from ongoing catastropic problems. Believe what you want, but the two countries are a mess.
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thanks leigh!
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abagond, you wrote:
I find it odd that No Slappz often brings up the 800,000 killed in the Rwandan genocide but never the millions, MILLIONS, killed by Hitler and Stalin. Why is that?
What aspects of Hitler’s Germany and Stalin’s Soviet Union would you like to examine.
In WWII the US and Allied forces destroyed Germany, then tried and executed almost all captured Nazi leaders. Through the Marshall plan we rebuilt the nation both physically and governmentally, and since 1952 — when the US returned control of the nation to Germans — Germany has been a reliable ally.
In Japan and South Korea we had similar successes. However, US intervention in Haiti has been a failure. Why?
Meanwhile, the genocide in Rwanda was perpetrated by masses of individuals operating independently of any legitimate government.
The Nazi death machine was a relatively small operation run by people who were given the job of exterminating Jews by the recognized government. As much as individual Germans may have accepted the killing of Jews, they themselves were not going door-to-door slaughtering them. The Nazi evil is different from the Rwanda evil.
Moreover, it’s election time in Rwanda, and the way things are going in Rwanda now, concerned people are speculating that another slaughter might occur.
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No Slappz said:
“You really, really, really need to learn more about economics. It appears you have no grasp of economic realities beyond a few superficial factors.
Unfortunately, because you know so little about economic matters, you call me intellectually dishonest, rather than examining the facts.”
No, it is not called economics. It is called making and holding an argument. It means, like, admitting when you are wrong instead of shifting the ground of the argument. It means wanting to understand what is truly going on instead of dismissing facts to suit your white alternate reality.
This post is about how white people keep themselves deluded in the face of the facts of history and the news. And you agreed with most of it, especially the most important parts. And where you disagreed it was because your delusions are even more thorough-going than what I laid out.
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But what about Stalin, I wonder?
(Or maybe I should not encourage him.
No_slappz, not Stalin.)
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Mira:
The Stalin thing was government-led too, so that does not count either. You are not getting this. You need to reread the post:
1. Black people do bad things because they are black.
2. Whites are Basically Good.
So Mugabe in Zimbabwe can be blamed on blacks. But Hitler and Stalin cannot be blamed on whites. Get it?
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I second this ^^^^^ one leaders misconduct can not be used to judge an entire race.
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I get that Abagond. However, I remember one of no_slappz’s comments about evils of communism. So I wondered if he would defend Stalin’s regime or not.
But I admit, I usually skip his posts, so I might be missing something. Those two points, I admit, explain everything one needs to know about his opinions. So I guess no_slappz believe evils of Stalin or Hitler say nothing about white people as a whole (I must admit I agree with him here), but if that is true, then any black dictator (or whatever he calls them) says nothing about black people as a whole. It’s the only way that make sense.
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Mira:
To put it another way: if Obama turns out to be a great president, he will be biracial, but if he turns out to be a bad president, he will be black all the way: his being half white will become a Little Known Fact in a hundred years.
Or: a Good Obama married Michelle IN SPITE OF her being black. He married her for political reasons so he could climb up through Chicago politics on the back of the black vote.
But a Bad Obama married Michelle because that shows his True Nature. He is “no better” than all those other blacks.
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abagond, you wrote:
This post is about how white people keep themselves deluded in the face of the facts of history and the news.
White people keeping themselves deluded? Says you. Most of your 13 observations reveal the unfortunate irony that consumes you.
Some of your observations are true. Like #1. Whites do believe blacks are more violent — for good reason. The evidence is mountainous.
Some of your observations are irrelevant. White guilt for example. Or your ideas on “Ancient History.”
Meanwhile, it appears you did not understand that some of your points had an ironic validity because they showed white acceptance that the past is past for a lot of black riots of the last 50 years. Like the riots in Watts, Detroit and South Central.
Anyway, as long as there is no black nation that meets the definition of “advanced” few whites will take your complaints seriously.
Sorry — even if there were an “advanced” black nation of 2 million, it would be too small to convince the world of anything. The nation best positioned to become “modernized” is Nigeria. With plenty of oil and 100 million people, it has the basics to prove your points on a scale that matters.
But we both know it will remain a mess for decades.
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To put it another way: if Obama turns out to be a great president, he will be biracial, but if he turns out to be a bad president, he will be black all the way: his being half white will become a Little Known Fact.
Or, perhaps, an irrelevant fact? After all, the savage genes can win any time, and see what happens.
I guess if Obama turns out to be a great president it will be, no doubt, because he’s biracial. White genes managed to win somehow and made him a smart man and a good president.
(On a sidenote, please don’t hate me, but I must admit I see Obama as biracial. It has nothing to do with being a good president or a bad one- but it’s impossible for me to think of someone whose parents were interracial couple as something other than mixed. Is that bad?)
Or: a Good Obama married Michelle IN SPITE OF her being black, he married her for political reasons so he could climb up through Chicago politics on the back of the black vote.
But a Bad Obama married Michelle because that shows his True Nature. He is “no better” than all those other s.
I see. So, Obama didn’t want to marry a black woman (why would anyone in their right mind want to do that?), but he realized that would bring him black vote and help him win? (I mean, there are people who honestly believe in this?)
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“but it’s impossible for me to think of someone whose parents were interracial couple as something other than mixed. Is that bad?”
I’m with you on that one. The one drop rule seems to be dying out in America.
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Or at least it’s not as prominent.
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Well, I am not an American so I don’t get one drop rule at all. I mean, I understand its history and what was going on, but I am unable to think in “one drop rule” categories.
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I’m with you on that one. The one drop rule seems to be dying out in America.
Do you think so? I don’t think it is. Seems to be as prominent as ever. If you look like you are of even partial African descent, you are considered black. Before at least a person could be a “mulatto,” “quadroon,” etc.
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What’s a quadroon? Someone who is 1/4 black? (or 1/4 white?)
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^Yes, one fourth black.
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This one drop rule is interesting, because it’s all about subjectivity. Is someone who looks white, but has a black grandmother black or white? And what about someone who is 1/8, or 1/16 black? How far does it go? 1/32? 😛
Sorry, I know this is not a funny subject. I’m just trying to imagine a 1/32 black person and the difference between him and someone who is white.
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Mira,
Is someone who looks white, but has a black grandmother black or white?
My cousins are biracial, their mother from Sweden. The oldest of them “passes” for white (although she calls herself biracial). She is accepted as white, and people are always surprised to find out she is half black. Now, her brother has coloring and features similar to President Obama, and he is considered black. So it really comes down to phenotype as to whether you are considered black or white.
How far does it go? 1/32?
The term “octoroon,” (one eighth), is the smallest I know of.
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1/2 mulatto
1/4 quadroon
1/8 octoroon
Most people who are less than 1/8th black are called white.
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Mulatto used to appear on the US Census form. Now it is considered offensive. These days most mulattoes are called black, though some call themselves biracial.
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Mira:
The thinking behind the One Drop Rule is that any amount of visible black African ancestry makes you impure, not-as-good, screwed up. Like a torn dress or dirty dishwater.
The unproven science behind it is that the genes for dark skin, kinky hair, a broad nose and big lips are linked to genes that make people lazy, stupid, violent, immoral, etc.
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@Natasha W
My cousins are biracial, their mother from Sweden. The oldest of them “passes” for white (although she calls herself biracial). She is accepted as white, and people are always surprised to find out she is half black. Now, her brother has coloring and features similar to President Obama, and he is considered black. So it really comes down to phenotype as to whether you are considered black or white.
I see: what you look like seems more important than your actual ancestry. I guess that’s why Wentworth Miller is generally accepted as white even though his father (?) is black (or biracial himself). Because Wentworth looks like a white person (at least to me, and I guess I’m not the only one). Another person who is less black than him could be considered black if looks black.
I think I understand the principle and racism behind it. It is a bit different than I thought it was. I used to think black ancestors are what make you “bad” according to the one drop rule, but it looks like it’s more about if you look black (if you have “black” genes as dominant or not). Is that how it goes?
@Abagond
The thinking behind the One Drop Rule is that any amount of visible black African ancestry makes you impure, not-as-good, screwed up. Like a torn dress or dirty dishwater.
Yes, I understand that. I understand the twisted logic behind it, but I am unable to apply one drop rule to my thinking. For example, Obama is mixed to me, and his wife is black. (To be honest, I don’t know how you can talk about it so… calmly, like a fact that nobody finds shocking).
The unproven science behind it is that the genes for dark skin, kinky hair, a broad nose and big lips are linked to genes that make people lazy, stupid, violent, immoral, etc.
The irony of this is that genes for more melanin (that usually give racial differences) are “stronger” in a way that makes passing for white hard. I am not sure about kinky hair, nose and lip shape, though (are those genes dominant or not? On the other hand, I am pretty sure there’s no gene for nose and lip shape). Anyway, that’s why some whites (I guess) feared white race and it’s phenotype (light skin, blond hair, blue eyes) would disappear if not kept separated. This is horrible on itself, but even worse is the belief physical features somehow determine your intelligence and behaviour. Honestly, I don’t know how to live in such an environment and not to hate (white) everyone.
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I’m sorry. I meant to say “there are no racially-specific” genes for nose and lip shape. Of course, we know there’s no such thing as biological race, but I guess skin colour is, in practice, usually taken as a good marker of one’s race.
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^Mira, I will be responding to you in the post “One Drop Rule,” as it will be more on-topic there.
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Good idea. Me too.
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Kit:
Thanks for the link!
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To Mira –
you said — (in another post… Sorry, I’m following Natasha’s lead on this one.)——-
Your Comment:
“I’m sorry. I meant to say “there are no racially-specific” genes for nose and lip shape. Of course, we know there’s no such thing as biological race, but I guess skin colour is, in practice, usually taken as a good marker of one’s race.”
My Response:
In the U.S, a lot of people look at a person’s hair too in an attempt to further categorize. (To me, this is also a throwback to the “One Drop Rule”. Hey, we wouldn’t want anybody passing for white! I mean the world my turn upside down or something.) lol
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Oops — Abagond, I meant to post my response under the “One Drop” thread and goofed.
Please feel free to move this there.
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Natasha,
My cousins are biracial, their mother from Sweden. The oldest of them “passes” for white (although she calls herself biracial). She is accepted as white, and people are always surprised to find out she is half black. Now, her brother has coloring and features similar to President Obama, and he is considered black. So it really comes down to phenotype as to whether you are considered black or white.
laromana,
REGARDLESS of what “RACE” IGNORANT/RACISTS “think” you “LOOK LIKE”, a person’s TRUE IDENTITY is still their ACTUAL GENETIC ANCESTRY and CULTURAL background.
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laromana, ITA.
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To Laroma,
REGARDLESS of what “RACE” IGNORANT/RACISTS “think” you “LOOK LIKE”, a person’s TRUE IDENTITY is still their ACTUAL GENETIC ANCESTRY and CULTURAL background.
I can’t say I understand this well but I have an acquaintance who is in a similar situation as Natasha W’s cousins. His mother is British (White) and his father is Black (American..) he is phenotypically White (looks Italian..) his brother is phenotypically Black. Their paths went in quite different directions. The fellow I know predominantly (but not exclusively associates with Whites..) his brother predominantly associates with Blacks.
He is in this photo, second from the left:
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abagond, you wrote:
if Obama turns out to be a great president, he will be biracial, but if he turns out to be a bad president, he will be black all the way: his being half white will become a Little Known Fact in a hundred years.
Obama is headed for ignominy because no matter what he does domestically, his legacy will boil down to his acquiescence while Iran obtained nuclear weapons.
History will remember him like Neville Chamberlain, who appeased the Nazis. Despite doing a lot of good domestic work as Britain’s Prime Minister, he is known as the clown who ignored the message in Hitler’s Mein Kampf and allowed Nazi Germany to re-arm.
For that, it will be his sympathy for Islam and muslims that will evoke the anger. In this way Obama’s failure as a president will be far greater than Jimmy Carter’s failure.
Meanwhile, his racial mix will always stay in public view. Just like the constant reminders that John Kennedy was Irish and Catholic.
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And he does it again!
Definitely linking this.
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@ Mira
What I’m saying is, not all Americans are like this, but there’s this stereotypical image of an American who cares only about himself and USA and knows nothing about other cultures and time periods; even worse- he doesn’t even care.
Honey…don’t feel bad. That image is unfortunately very correct; I see & deal with it every day.
On a sidenote, please don’t hate me, but I must admit I see Obama as biracial…it’s impossible for me to think of someone whose parents were interracial couple as something other than mixed. Is that bad?
No, it’s not bad. I tend to see him as biracial too, especially I know that’s what got him into the Oval Office. The key, however, is to see a biracial person the way they see themselves. Obama identifies as black; that’s just how he sees himself. As do Zoe Saldana and Halle Berry and–I think–Sophie Okonedo. Comedian KT Tatara’s mother is white (and it’s obvious), but in his routines, he always refers to himself as being Asian–it’s a common tendency because in the Western world, biracial folks often find their white sides either ignored or missed altogether, whether or not they “explain.” These experiences let them know that they are POC, they will be seen & treated thusly, and that they most certainly do not have white privilege.
Now I did, however, once have this fascinating coworker who was adopted from Vietnam in the 1970s, raised by white folks, and grew up with white siblings. He even married a white woman (with already grown white kids). He once showed me his family pics to explain to me why he doesn’t see himself as “Asian” and wondered if–when he posted in Asian forums–he should let the “other Asians” know.
*sigh* I often regret never having studied him further.
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From what I understand they added “Negro” for the 2010 US Census because enough people wrote it in in 2000. Back by popular demand, if you can believe that.
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Hey Abagond –
I know this is a little off topic, but what about our President!!!!
I am so proud of him sticking with healthcare. So there all of you that do not like him. I know you will have something ignorant to say. But remember, this victory will go down in history.
Will we get a post about this Abagond?
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Julian,
LOL!!! Great post.
I just wrote something that is very much in line with what you`re saying here:
http://theobsidianfiles.wordpress.com/2010/03/22/dangerous-assumptions-why-we-cling-to-them/
LOL, excellent work!
The Obsidian
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No_Slappz,
Why can’t you just come out and admit that you hate blacks or anything associated with Africa or anything African-American? Like I said once, you’re just proving to everything that they’re right about you, and you continue to give them power. It’s sad really, and kinda funny.
I know how you would respond, you will derail the reponse with more “proof” of how abagond and those who agree with him are wrong with no actual proof and try to seem as if you know what you’re talking about. You will try to steer the conversation into putting the blame on blacks and praise nations run by whites.
In short you’re becoming predictable.
So, let the usual response begin…
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will, you wrote:
I know how you would respond, you will derail the reponse with more “proof” of how abagond and those who agree with him are wrong with no actual proof and try to seem as if you know what you’re talking about.
The proof is the utter and complete absence of proof to the contrary. In short, blacks have contributed roughly zero to the intellectual advancement of the world. ZERO.
It’s one thing to note relative differences between contributions to the intellectual development of mankind made by various human societies. But it is something else when one group has added virtually nothing.
For the last thousand years muslims have been in the same boat.
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“1. Black people do bad things because they are black.”
This is so true. Recently, a woman was raped and murdered in my hometown. We were all shocked, wondering what the motive could possibly be. Then an arrest was made:
http://www.newstimes.com/news/article/Next-door-neighbor-charged-in-rape-murder-of-419519.php
Just look at the picture of the suspect. Nobody is wondering about the motive now. It’s obvious why he did it- because he’s black. That’s just how some black people are, and we all know it.
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No_Slappz
Thanks once again for proving my points about you.
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Peter Lerman
Why do you think whites commit crimes? (This should be good)
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Peter Lerman
What’s the reason behind this crime?
http://www.delmarvanow.com/article/20100316/OPI01/3160345
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Peter Lerman:
Are you racist?
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Abagond:
Is the sky blue?
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LOL
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The highest violent crime rates among black people are found among the most Westernized black people. Violent crime rates among black people in the Western hemisphere are much higher then those in Africa. Violent crime rates in South Africa, with its relatively westernized black population and large long-ruling white minority, are much higher then those in Zimbabwe. You are probably safer from violent crime in a poor town in many parts of Africa then you are in an American city.
Basically black people who speak European languages as first languages and follow European culture are more likely to rob, assault or kill you.
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Greetings Obsidian! It was Reyna who pointed out your blog to me, though I do remember you from the comments on Roissy’s blog. I am glad you are keeping your own blog.
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I find it fascinating how hard many whites will fight against, disavow, dismiss anything that does not cast them in the brightest light. It amazes me that so many whites racists participate on this blog. No_Slapps is fascinating to me. People like him usually hide on in the bowels of the Internet, constantly monitored by the SPLC and ADL. no_slapps why do you come here? What is your final solution for African Americans, Caribbean people and Africans (since they cannot govern themselves)? How do you explain centuries of rape and forced concubinage of black women by civilized white men all of the “new world”?
I was watching Who Do You Think You Are when they were profiling Emmett Smith, who to racists would be seen as the savage, criminal Mandingo type if he wasn’t such a talented football player. He found his mulatto ancestor and his white slave-holding ancestor. When the DNA test came back he was surprised to find out he had additional white ancestry. Autosomal DNA linked Stephen Colbert with African American poet Elizabeth Alexander. Again how do explain this no_slapps?
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Welcome back, Eshowoman!!!
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Couldn’t stay away. Things are going to get really interesting between now and the election and since I am in school I cannot indulge my own blog writing habit, your blog will be a great place to comment on the how crazy these racists are going to get.
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@Cpt
Because in those black countries, crime is not properly reported..bottom line.
You mess up there, you will not be seen again lol
There is an old saying I would like to share with you
If you do NO crime….YOU WILL DO NO TIME!!
Learn it, Know it, Live it…..
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Great White:
How do you know crime is not properly reported in those countries?
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eshowoman, you wrote:
Emmett Smith…criminal Mandingo type…a talented football player. He found…his white slave-holding ancestor. When the DNA test came back he was surprised to find out he had additional white ancestry.
Autosomal DNA linked Stephen Colbert with African American poet Elizabeth Alexander. Again how do explain this no_slapps?
How do I explain Emmett Smith the football player with his white ancestry AND Stephen Colbert with his black ancestry?
The dominant genes in the two current descendants speak for themselves.
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@Abagond
Corruption for one, also the lack of respect to their fellow countrymen. Most African countries, especially outside the urban areas is like the wild west. Families, Clans, Tribal leaders will make the laws and issue punishment or if the price is right….cover it up. In the Urban areas the police have that same power, the Chief of police is like a KING, same with most third world countries..Most elite Africans look down on the local populace as simple peasants to be exploited, nothing more. So beating, raping, pedophillia is not reported the majority of the time.
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@ The Great White Man
Spoken like someone who’s never lived in Africa.
@ Abagond,
Merry Xmas. Couldn’t have done it without you.
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@ Ankhesen Mié
Djibouti, Kenya, Uganda, Sierra Leone…..
Now the max time spent was 6 mos at either of these places, but I talked to the locals, witnessed inhumanity for the simplest petty crime..smh
I’ve seen cannibalism first hand!!!
Lady, you don’t know who you are dealing with……..
My Passport is bigger than the biggest book you’ve ever read…bottom line
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It will never cease to amaze me how white people think they know all about Africa even though they have never been there or have lived thre for a short amount of time. kiss my teeth and shake my head.
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@ Aiyo
Been there, have you?
I know you Afrocentrist like to paint Africa as some paradise but, my lost friend, its far from it.
Beautiful people….effed up mindsets
I take that back…effed up leaders
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“Keith Richburg has been shunned and insulted for daring to reject the Afro-centric idealism which is an article of faith in black America. In Out Of America, published in February,1997, (hardcover, 288 pages; ‘Basic Books,’ ISBN: 0465001874), after he spent three years reporting from Africa for the Washington Post, Mr Richburg hurls down a challenge to black American leaders to stop deceiving themselves and the 35 million (black) descendants of slaves, that Africa is Eden on earth.
“I’m tired of lying,’ he writes. ‘And I’m tired of all the ignorance and hypocrisy and the double standards I hear and read about Africa, much of it from people who’ve never been there, let alone spent three years walking around amid the corpses.
“Talk to me about Africa and my black roots and my kinship with my African brothers and I’ll throw it back in your face, and then I’ll rub your nose in the images of the rotting flesh.’
“Richburg spent three years covering the continent’s senseless violence, corruption, bloody and incessant cruelties–machete-wielding Hutu militiamen, a cholera epidemic in Zaire, famine in Somalia, civil war in Liberia, disease, dirt, dictatorships, killer children, AIDS, terror.
“Had my ancestor not made it out of here,’ Richburg muses, ‘I might have ended up in that crowd…maybe I would have been one of those bodies, washing over the waterfall in Tanzania or maybe my son would have been set ablaze by soldiers. Or I would be limping now from the torture I received in some rancid police cell…’
Afrocentrism ‘has become fashionable for many blacks, Richburg notes. ‘It cannot work for me. I have been here, I have lived here and seen Africa in all its horror.’
“Mr Richburg’s every word is an assault on the group identity politics which have taken hold among black intellectuals and leads, critics say, to a Balkanisation of American society. Thinking about his slave forebear, transported in chains to the Caribbean and thence to South Carolina, Mr Richburg writes: “Thank God my ancestor got out, because, now, I am not one of them [Africans]. In short, thank God I am an American.”
“Borders, a Washington D.C. book shop, was packed this month for a lecture by Mr Richburg at which hecklers accused him of racial betrayal. ‘One man demanded to know if the author had a white girlfriend,’ said Mary Ann Brownlow, who organised the lecture.
“When Mr Richburg appeared on a talk show on Black Entertainment Television, Randall Robinson, leader of the TransAfrica lobby group and one of America’s most prominent blacks, refused to join the discussion.
“Jackie Clark, producer of the show, said: ‘We African-Americans have this vision of Africa as the motherland which we see in this wonderful light, but people who have lived there can burst this bubble. It takes courage to say things you know are going to outrage people, but I think Richburg wishes he were white.’
“Out Of America is a gruesomely detailed account of barbarism and corruption across the continent, particularly in Somalia and Rwanda. The author pulls no punches in condemning it, and no…myth is spared. When sketching how his ancestor was enslaved, he says it was first ‘probably by a local chieftain.’ The suggestion that African blacks were slave owners is anathema in America…
“Mr Richburg, who is now working for the Washington Post in Hong Kong, says he is not condoning the evil of slavery, but insists that condemning it should not blind blacks to the fact that good has emerged from it…”
——————
The truth hurts the ignorant!!!
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FYI I am African a Nigerian Yoruba to be exact. I f you don’t like hearing about black people and want to talk about how fan-bloody-tastic white people are and how proud you are of being white becasue of all the things that white people have done like slave trade and messing the mindset of PoC then the people of stromfront are there to embrace you with open arms. Goodbye.
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@ Aiyo
Black Africans orchestrated the slave trade and prospered greatly.
Its still being practiced there today!!!!
The white man was the first man to abolish slavery, if you want I could pull op the qoutes of a Fellow from Nigeria when the practice was halted by us….You will not like it I’m afriad……..
and I have been IP banned from stormfront for exposing racism there too….the ignorant don’t like the truth and when they hear it…they get E-motional, just like you….
Wake up!! Reality is Calling
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No slappz. Oh god save me from the neocons.
I hope Iran does has nuclear weapons and first thing they do is blow you and everbody who thinks like you off the face F&*king planet. I so sick of this anglosphere game of whack a mole. We play with the world that if any culture that’s different from ours must be destroyed.
If you so worried about protection why are we developing forcefield technologys,building bunkers in ever home,finding plants that can live in toxic environments or studying how to significantly reduce toxicity of an area.
Instead of playing a decade old game of Taliban hide and seek.
Anybody who show sympathy or compassion for another country ply other than there own is weak. Even though we base America values off Judeo-Christianity bible which teach us to forgive.
Colossians 3:13
Bear with each other and forgive whatever grievances you may have against one another. Forgive as the Lord forgave you.
The reason America seem to get into trouble because we hyprocites. We say one thing than do another. Well I can’t say America what I mean is the top %2 of rich. Who rule unopposed with viciousness and secrecy. That brainwashed sheep like you idolize them for.
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“If you so worried about protection why are we developing forcefield technologys,building bunkers in ever home,finding plants that can live in toxic environments or studying how to significantly reduce toxicity of an area.”
We’re developing forcefields??? …COOL!
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You mentioned “the white lens”, as if this is a skewed version through which white people distort the world to their liking. Have you ever considered a “black lens”? Or chinese, or Mexican, or any minority will work. Every person who associates themselves with a race has given themselves that lens, including you. One form of racism is to make broad generalizations of another race… Sound familiar. You accuse white people of being ignorant of other races and cultures. And you’d be right. Every race, every culture, can only assume what it must be like to be cast into there society in a different role. If I as a “white” spoke of ” blacks” in broad generalizations, as you have done, it would be considered horribly ignorant and racist. You have forgotten to turn the lens on yourself, and to consider what perspective our fucked up society has cast onto you.
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@ ………….
I have considered all that and it is not quite as you suppose. Blacks in America, for example, do not have an equal and opposite black lens. That is for two reasons:
1. They do not by and large control the press, schools, universities, film studios, etc. Even what black media there is is nothing compared to white media. Unlike whites, blacks do not grow up in a self-created bubble, their own echo chamber.
2. Blacks have way less reason to see the world in a self-serving way and way more reason to see it as it is. Whites, for example, NEED to have a dehumanized picture of blacks to feel right and good about their own position in society and history. Blacks, on the other hand, need to have as clear a picture of whites as they can because they live in a country where they are outnumbered by whites.
This is not to say that blacks have a perfect picture of whites. Hardly. They have their own in-group prejudices too, the kind of thing you are talking about. But the main way they get whites wrong comes not from those “natural” sort of prejudices but from the white lens itself, which affects everyone who grows up in America.
Suggested reading:
https://abagond.wordpress.com/2009/11/13/the-white-lens/
https://abagond.wordpress.com/2010/12/06/the-vast-talking-machine/
https://abagond.wordpress.com/2012/01/02/why-do-whites-hate-demonize-fear-or-look-down-on-blacks/
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I agree. The White Lens is rammed down the throat of everyone. Whitewashed history, white news. So the lens of non-whites in America is not exactly the same — they have deep experience with the White media lens.
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*scrambling for the follow button*
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