Today is June Jordan’s birthday and I was going to write about her, but I think she would understand:
I wrote about whites-only proms not too long ago and now this: There is a whites-only swim club. In America. In 2009. In supposedly post-racial America. In the supposedly Enlightened North. Just outside of Philadelphia. Right now.
Our story:
About 65 black and Hispanic children ages 5 to 13 go to a day camp in Philadelphia. They spend most of the week in the city in the basenment of a grade school. But one day a week they get to go swimming in the suburbs. The camp paid $1950 so they could go to the Valley Swim Club in Huntingdon Valley, Pennsylvania just outside the city.
They went there for their first day of swimming on June 29th. When they got in the pool all the white children got out. One white mother was overhead saying:
Uh, what are all these black kids doing here? I’m scared they might do something to my child.
She was not the only one talking like that. But it got worse: the pool attendants came and told the black and Hispanic children that minorities were not allowed in the club and that they need to leave immediately.
Well, maybe it was all just some big misunderstanding. But no, the president of the club gave back the $1950 (you know, like the year this club still lives in). He said he was getting too many complaints from (white) parents. The complaints had nothing to do with racism, he said. He put it this way:
There was concern that a lot of kids would change the complexion … and the atmosphere of the club,
By the way, they had signed up online.
Some good news, though: Girard College, a school in the city, offered their swimming pool, free of charge even, so they will get to swim.
It is like what I said about the whites-only proms:
Note to white people: Small-town and working class whites often come off seeming racist and backward in the press, but that is only because they do not have the money to move away from blacks. I mean, why have a whites-only prom if you live in a place that is less than 1% black, like nearly all suburban whites do?
Well, this club is in one of those places where white people do have the money to move away from blacks. It is 0.5% black.
Somehow I get this feeling that white Americans feel free to be more openly racist now that there is black man as president. It is kind of like how white people think that if they have a black best friend then it is all right to go to a whites-0nly prom. Or say nakedly racist things. Like some commenters on this blog, not to name names. It seems like the same kind of strange, twisted moral thinking.
See also:
I read about this story online a couple of days ago. It breaks my heart in this day and age that there are some people who have prejudice, racism, and segregation in their hearts and yet say that they have a few Black and brown friends. Post-racial my foot!
La Reyna
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I am not surprised. Nothing in America surprises me.
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thats rediculous!
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Take a look at their revamped website, scrubbed free of happy-swimming-white-folks pics, and just about everything else:
http://thevalleyclub.com/
There’s a new explanation, too: Our pool is crowded enough already.
Unfortunately, we quickly learned that we underestimated the capacity of our facilities and realized that we could not accommodate the number of children from these camps.
Cue the obvious:
FAIL!
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I heard about this yesterday on the radio and I’m just curious about the whole thing. You mean they didn’t know that they needed to accommodate 65 children when they received the deposit and registration? Since Nutter closed a lot of pools in Philly, the swim club claimed they were trying to help out and overestimated their capabilities. But there’s another group that went there (about 25)and their money was refunded, too. Half of those kids were mult-ethnic. The whole thing sounds strange, and maybe they need new management that can make proper arrangements .
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GUYS PLEASE SIGN THE PETITION!! Agianst this club
Here’s the petition please guys I encourage all of you to sign it. Its very simple name email zip city state and click.
http://www.colorofchange.org/swim/?id=2194-374601
^^^^^
If you can you please send the letter to others.
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From what we see in the media it reeks of racism. I’m aware that the club is trying to spin an alternative explanation — essentially, “we overbooked without realizing it and have cancelled the various group reservations.” Perhaps there is an element of that. Even that, though, raises at the very least the specter of elitism — the club members pay for a quiet, bucolic pool environment and don’t want a boisterous public pool atmosphere. Either way the club stepped in it pretty deep.
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the club members pay for a quiet, bucolic pool environment and don’t want a boisterous public pool atmosphere. Either way the club stepped in it pretty deep.
No.. the latter …elitism… is perfectly legal…(and common…)
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This entire scenario hurts my brain.
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Somehow I get this feeling that white Americans feel free to be more openly racist now that there is black man as president.
Well race has certainly become a bigger subject since Obama got elected.. and the Attorney General came out and suggested that Americans should have a dialogue on race. Also,it’s quite possible that the media might be choosing to amplify such events in the wake of Obama’s election. Certainly the segregated proms are nothing new.
Or say nakedly racist things.
Such as..say Jasmine..?
Like some commenters on this blog, not to name names.
Why not..? If you think I am one of them I have no issue discussing such things.
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Why don’t you NIGGERS go back to Africa. We hate you people. The Black race is a cancer on humanity.
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Kenny…do yourself a favor and…stop writing…the stupidity is killing you.
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post racial i knew that was some kind of crazy buzz word that didn’t mean anything
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Didn’t you all know? This isn’t racist? It wasn’t because the children were black and hispanic. It was because the members paid for use of a pool at a private facility and didn’t want it overrun for public use. It’s not racism. It’s just seeing racism where there is none.
And yes that was heavy sarcasm.
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You repeat the assertion that one of the suburban moms said “what are all these black kids doing here? I’m scared they might do something to my child” and suggest that the statement evidences racism.
If that statement was even made, it was more likely realistic than racist.
Black kids from less-affluent neighborhoods are much more rowdy and physically rough, even violent, than white nice-neighborhood kids. Worse, they (correctly) regard the white kids as soft and some black kids enjoy frightening or beating up white kids. It makes them feel powerful.
Recently, taking my own kids to the public pool in Sierra Madre, California which draws a lot of swimmers from nearby Altadena (Altadena is a predominantly black neighborhood and Sierra Madre is mixed) I personally observed how some black kids would intimidate and shove white kids in the pool for kicks. I never saw any white (or asian) kids do anything similar. (Black kids would also roughhouse with each other, but no white kids participated voluntarily.) Sure, the lifeguards would expel bullies after a while, but not before the bullies forced lots of white kids to leave the pool crying.
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Veracitor, if that statement wasn’t racist, and instead was a realisitic presumption about the class level of these kids, then why didn’t she say, “what are all these poor kids doing here? I’m scared they might do something to my child”?
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@ macon d & Veracitor
While I can’t say I agree with Veracitor’s claim that it was realistic rather than racist, I don’t think your interpretation of it as a matter of class is entirely accurate.
If the statement was indeed made, it was definitely racist. Regardless of reason, general negative assumption about someone due to race is pretty much always racist in some form or another. So, when the woman says something like this, regardless of reason, it still stands as a jab towards the people she was “worried might do something to her children”.
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@veracitor
You would not want people making assumptions about you when you go somewhere. It’s NOT right to do it to others.
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Kat, you are obviously not a parent. A parent cannot afford to “wait and see” if a strong statistical threat will really produce actual harm before acting to avert it. Any parent who failed to take preventive (as opposed to reactive) action would end up with injured kids!
As for whether the comment was racist, it’s clear that people here are operating with different definitions.
So far as I am concerned, “racism” means baseless or unwarranted prejudice. When a some stereotype is true then it is not racist to recognize it.
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Also, Kat, I expect other people to “make assumptions” about me, based upon my appearance, when I go somewhere.
That is why I dress politely for the occasion, wash my face, comb my hair, cover my tattoos,* conceal my pistol,** watch my language, wear a friendly expression,*** and walk instead of swagger.
When appearance conveys useful information only an idiot would ignore it.
Like it or not, the strongest observable**** predictors of violent tendencies (in the modern USA) are social affect and race. People who taunt, bully, and rough-house others are likely to commit violence. Black kids are likely to be violent (really– just Google up some juvenile crime statistics and see how overrepresented blacks are as both perpetrators and victims).
Remember when Jesse Jackson (former Rainbow Coalition candidate for the US Presidency) told us all that he always crossed the street when he saw a lower-class black man coming toward him on the sidewalk?
Is it “unfair” for people to react to other folks’ race? Perhaps in some abstract sense, but not as a practical matter. If someone belongs to the locally “wrong” race (black in a white suburb, hispanic in a black neighborhood, white (yes) in an asian enclave) he should go to special lengths to counteract peoples’ reactions to his race: wear nicer clothes, speak more politely, etc. That is more effective than whining about “racism.” The best way to erase a stereotype is to falsify it; over time, it will fade.
*Actually, I don’t have any tattoos, but if I did I would cover them in public– my friends do.
**I don’t always carry a pistol, but when I do I conceal it.
***A hostile affect (“he’s got a chip on his shoulder”) is a very strong indication that the wearer is a dangerous person– facial expressions and body language are evolved to mean just what you think they mean.
****Of course we have to react to strangers on the basis of their appearance; we have no way to look up the SAT scores or Sunday school attendance records of people we don’t even know.
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Exactly, Lynette,
Veracitor,
Trying to rationalize racial discrimination doesn’t get anyone anywhere. No matter how you slice it, this incident had no business happening.
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Veracitor – as a WHITE mother of three blonde haired boys I think your full of BS….
Children of all races act aggressive and loudmouthed and thug like. Not just black ones.
Some of the most violent kids I have ever met where spoiled suburan white boys whose parents indulged and spoiled them.
The aggresive nature of the hip hop culture came from living in a dangerous and difficult area where people would prey on the passive types. This can be seen in every culture around the world but hip hop brought it mainstream. And now those silly suburun kids are copying what they see on TV except they dont need to struggle to survive. They dont really know what its like to live in a neighborhood where you have to sleep in the bathtub because of drive buys. The kids are just as awful in a richy richy affluent private school – but iwhtout the real danger to justify their behavior…they are not protecting themselves…they are just punks.
What this swim school did was wrong. Period – your attempts to defend it reveal you for who you are.
I got the stuffings beat out of me by three black girls in HS for dating a black boy. Those girls were thugs. But i have had wonderful realtionships as well with black women. I have see White girls beat the crap out of each other too…
growing up in california I forget what parts of america are like. But PLEASE dont excuse this as anything other than what it is.
Oh – and I have beautiful tattoos – which I show in public…you have a very odd view of whats appropriate.
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Davida— I don’t think I’m full of BS but I suspect you’re innumerate, or at least untrained to statistical reasoning. It’s no answer to a juvenile violence rate at least 3.3 times higher for blacks than whites* that you know of some violent whites.** Of course you do, there are 4.5 times as many white youths in America as black and some of them are violent, but a few counterexamples cannot falsify a statistical trend!
*Source US-DOJ, see http://www.ncjrs.gov/pdffiles1/ojjdp/224538.pdf which understates the black/white violence ratio by excluding cases moved to adult court (more common with black offenders) and violence which never reaches juvenile court (e.g., handled by school authorities or never reported to authorities).
**You have invoked the mirror twin of the “some of my best friends are …” argument. Phooey on that.
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Veracitor, when white mothers pulled their white kids out of the pool because some black kids had jumped in, and when some of those white mothers were heard to say, “What are all these black kids doing here?!”, they weren’t doing so because they were loaded up with US-DOJ statistics. They were instead reacting in a simply racist manner to the different color of the new kids in the pool, and they were condemning those kids as “guilty” before they’d even been charged. Charged, that is, with anything other than being black.
Also, you wrote,
If someone belongs to the locally “wrong” race (black in a white suburb, hispanic in a black neighborhood, white (yes) in an asian enclave) he should go to special lengths to counteract peoples’ reactions to his race: wear nicer clothes, speak more politely, etc.
You know, if I were an Asian or Asian American, I would be sick to death and mad as hell with white racists using me and my kind so often like that, to claim that they’re “realists,” instead of racists.
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Macon D– go back and read the news stories again. It was a busload of rowdy inner-city kids. It was claimed (with only modest credibility) that one white mother complained about the race of the kids.
But what really shocks me is your groundless and insulting assertion that anyone who doesn’t have a DOJ report displayed on their laptop screen as they speak is necessarily unaware of the important fact, well-known in real-life to everyone who watches local TV news (much less anyone who has ever, you know, studied sociology or current affairs*), that American blacks are much more violent than American whites,** so anyone who fears large groups of blacks must necessarily be “reacting in a simply racist manner to the different color of the new kids.”
Some people think ignorance leads to racism– you seem to think racism causes ignorance.
*Why would you assume that a white suburban mom would be uneducated? For all you know the mom in question had a college or even graduate degree in sociology or psychology or medicine or whatever and knew more about DOJ statistics than I do! Or perhaps her day job was teaching in a public school in a bad neighborhood and she knew exactly what to expect from the inner-city kids! Or perhaps she worked for the police department, or her husband did!
**Blacks are 3.3 times as likely to go to prison as whites (source DOJ again, see http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/crimoff.htm#inmates ) and blacks are 8 to 10 times as likely as whites to commit murder (source DOJ, see http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/homicide/race.htm ).
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Veracitor,
Ya know? What you are discussing is based on the intersection of CLASS and race. How many of those blacks who commit murder are middle to upper-class? How about those blacks who are in prison? Yeah, and that’s the problem. Probably most if not all of those blacks presented in those statistics are lower class? So, the right reasonable deduction is that LOWER CLASS PEOPLE are typically more violent. Any intro sociology class would tell you that.
And quite frankly, they have the right to be angry and, therefore, more violent because the system has seriously failed them. But, of course, being poor and black means something totally different than being poor and white. I really hope you can tell the difference because I’m tired of being called violent and the sort due to some white people’s visceral reaction towards the color of my skin. Thank you for insulting my whole damn race. I appreciate it. /snark
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“im not surprised at all. Nothing in America surprises me.”
You got that right.
The people who keep saying I am appauled and surprise that something like this is still happening in America today are totally blind. This shiggity never left. But of course some black people thing that just because we see a few interracial couples here and there they think racism is over. Just because there is a black man in the white house,its over,and so on and so on. All that don’t mean nothing. Believe me if white folks could bring back “THE GOOD OL’ BOYs”, they would in a heartbeat….
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…and further more an appology is not needed as far as I’m concern. I wouldn’t want my kids to go back to that club anyway. If I had the money like Oprah, Bill Gates, Blumberg and some other billionares, I would love to build a state of the art swim club for BLACKS ONLY and see how they like those apples.
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Actually race predicts criminal violence much better than socio-economic status (SES) (what people usually mean when they refer to “class” in America) does. See for example:
http://books.google.com/books?id=ZlHZpqo7rwEC&pg=PA224&lpg=PA229&source=bl&hl=en&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1
Look at the last paragraph on page 225.
American blacks who make their own way into the upper classes, e.g., by education, are not much more violent than whites. But their children, that is, blacks who are merely born into upper-class circumstances, are much more likely to be violent than white children born into similar circumstances.
People often make a similar mistake when talking about a related question– they assume that SES (“class”) predicts intelligence and educational achievement better than race. The reverse is true:
“For example, blacks from California families earning $100,000 or more per year had a mean math score of 498, 1 point less than whites from families earning less than $10,000 and only 7 points more than Asians whose families made less than $10,000.
“Similar patterns are found in lower grades.
“The 1994 National Assessment of Educational Progress reading test indicates the average score of black high school seniors with a parent who graduated from college was 272 – 2 points less than for white seniors whose parents did not finish high school.”
Source San Francisco Chronicle
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/examiner/archive/1998/06/07/NEWS12516.dtl
Violence and intelligence are somewhat related– and the relationship is inverse. Less intelligent individuals are more likely to act violently.
Many people wish these facts were not so. They get so upset when someone mentions these facts that they “shoot the messenger” by accusing the fact-speaker of “racism.” Fear of being falsely called a “racist” causes most people in the media or academia to suppress the truth, leaving myths such as those we have just refuted to flourish even among well-read and interested people in American society.
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Veracitor,
Here’s some links: http://www.cnn.com/2009/HEALTH/01/07/racism.study/index.html
http://psycnet.apa.org/index.cfm?fa=search.displayRecord&uid=1986-98698-003
http://eric.ed.gov/ERICWebPortal/custom/portlets/recordDetails/detailmini.jsp?_nfpb=true&_&ERICExtSearch_SearchValue_0=ED284933&ERICExtSearch_SearchType_0=no&accno=ED284933
http://eric.ed.gov/ERICWebPortal/custom/portlets/recordDetails/detailmini.jsp?_nfpb=true&_&ERICExtSearch_SearchValue_0=EJ145653&ERICExtSearch_SearchType_0=no&accno=EJ145653
So, yeah. Some people would love to believe that some facts were not so. So, in order to avoid becoming angry and letting my irritation get the best of me, I’ll leave with you with this link: http://www.illdoctrine.com/2008/07/how_to_tell_people_they_sound.html
PS Sorry about the links, abagond. I’m a sociology major with focuses in race and gender, so research is sorta my thing. lol
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I am sorry – your using statistics to justify what inyour heart you know was wrong.
I dont give a damn about your numbers.
You know what happened was a racist and sinful reaction to children.
Kids dont naturally treat each other different based on race…they are TAUGHT racism. but that womens kids now will react racistly.
You can try and fool yourself with all the numbers you want…but those are children…not inner city thugs…there are bad ones and good ones…but what happned there was wrong. PERIOD
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Davida,
Was that to me or Veracitor?
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“I don’t give a damn about your numbers.
You know what happened was a racist and sinful reaction to children.”
See what I mean?
I won’t look for Davida to feel ashamed of substituting a conditioned emotional response for a rational one– but I invite other readers to use the part of their brains that makes them human: the thinking part.
By the way– I agree that “racism” is not innate, it is learned. I despise racism and wish all children to be brought up and educated in a strictly non-racist fashion.
I just don’t consider dealing with statistical problems on the basis of accurate statistical considerations to be racist.
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Kara S– I notice that none of your links relate to the issue you brought up, which is whether “class” or race is a better a-priori predictor of behavior.
(Not that it matters much, since the “class” of the kids in the swimming pool was likely almost as observable as their race– a few glances at their clothes and a few minutes listening to their conversation would have revealed their “class” fairly well to any watcher.)
All the stuff about “implicit” or “covert” or “aversive” “racism” is really irrelevant. Much of it is based on the demonstrably false premise of absolute statistical equality of races on all factors of interest– so that any difference in outcome on any test must be due to “racism.” The rest is indirectly based on the same false premise, except filtered through the notion that a person who correctly applies statistical (probability) knowledge to making choices under circumstances of constrained information (e.g., choosing whether to cross a downtown D.C. street to avoid a random black man– when he wouldn’t do so if the black man approaching were, say, a co-worker whom he knew to be a nice guy) is “implicitly racist.” In fact, he is merely a “statistical optimizer” who deserves respect rather than denunciation. Again, when statistics are as skewed as they are, acting on them is rational, not “racist.”
Furthermore, you are trying to divert the conversation to the question of “whether Veracitor is a horrible r*cist” (“aversive,” “implicit,” whatever) rather than the real question of whether a white suburban mom is justified to regard a novel crowd of black inner-city kids in her swimming pool as a danger to her children!
(I realize that you’ll never make tenure in sociology unless you deny the reality of racial differences in social performance, but if you want to preserve your own reputation for intellect you should probably just keep silent rather than puff out a smokescreen to cover a lack of facts– or an unwillingness to engage with facts.)
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Veracitor,
Why are you suggesting that Davida should be ashamed of her emotions? Not being a robot is not all that damn bad. No one should be ashamed of their emotions, even the negative ones. Any therapist would tell you that.
Remember, scientific racism had all the statistics and facts to support it for years. We all know how that turned out. Really, for your consideration: http://www.illdoctrine.com/2008/07/how_to_tell_people_they_sound.html
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uhhh – being a feeling human being means you see and understand the statistics and then look beyound them to the people your dealing with and take a HUMANE approach. I hate to pull out a soso movies plot line – but I Robot is the perfect example of this. And I was raised by a man who said he didnt care how I felt about something – he wanted to know the logic behind it. But at some point you put logic and reasoning and all your numbers (which I can not prove or disprove because I dont have time to research such things) and look at something and go – thats wrong…or thats right.
I come from a law enforcement and military family. ALL of my family are or were cops. My parents are Ministers. I know more about REAL crime and real issues than veracitor has ever REALLY experienced I bet.
You say you protect your children from a threat…curious…when you cross the street because a big bad black man is walking down the street – have any of them ACTUALLY assulted you?
I am often the person disagreeing on this site with most of the posters. They all know me as a conservative person who speeks out in favor of law enforcement etc….but THIS WAS WRONG…what happened was not okay…PERIOD…and your attempts to justify the pools actions is ridiculous.
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This is karma in action imho. The swim club filed for bankruptcy.
http://www.pennlive.com/midstate/index.ssf/2009/11/philly-area_swim_club_accused.html
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ho-hum
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go veracitor you rock!!!
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