Uighur internment camps (fl. 2017- ) in China now imprison up to a million Uighurs, a Muslim people whose country, East Turkestan, was taken over by China and made into the province of Xinjiang, north-west of Tibet. China has about 11 million Uighurs (the name sounds like “Weegores”).
Settler colonialism: Since the 1950s China has been taking land from Uighurs and giving it to Han Chinese, the main ethnic group in China. In 1945 Xinjiang was 83% Uighur. By 2008 it was only 46%. Uighurs had become a minority in their own homeland. In 2009 hundreds were killed in ethnic violence. And then it got worse:
Hi-tech police state: Starting in 2016, China started turning Xinjiang into a hi-tech police state when it came to Uighurs, even worse than it already was. There are security cameras capable of face recognition everywhere. Their houses and even their knives have computer-scannable QR codes. The government checks their mobile phones, takes their DNA, etc.
De-extremification: China also passed de-extremification laws. Muslim practices, like men wearing long beards or women wearing the veil (hijab), are seen as “extreme”, a threat to the security of China. Uighurs are required to watch state television or listen to state radio, to send their children to state schools. They can only read a state-approved Koran, cannot go to Mecca or even fast during Ramadan. On top of all that, the government in 2019 is drawing up a five-year plan to “sinicize” Islam, to make Islam “Chinese”. Those who break these de-extremification laws, and even many who break no law at all, are sent to:
Vocational training centres – or, as a sign on one them put it, “de-extremification re-education centres”. In satellite pictures they look like factories or maybe schools – except that you can see the shadows of watchtowers along the outer walls. And, if you search government websites, you find out that they order stuff like large numbers of police batons, electric cattle prods, handcuffs and cans of pepper spray. When Western reporters try to visit these vocational centres on the ground, the police turn them away. According to Chinese law, these centres are required to carry out:
Thought transformation: According to eyewitnesses this means saying bad things about Muslim and Uighur ways, chanting “Long live Xi Jinping!” (the current ruler of China), and singing songs like “Without the Communist Party, There Would Be No New China”. There are reports of torture and even death – but not mass killings. China is headed in that direction: internment camps are a feature of stage six of a genocide.
Belt & Road Initiative: Behind all of this – China’s need to crack down and much of the world’s need to keep silent about it – is the Belt & Road Initiative (BRI). Started in 2013, it is a trillion-dollar infrastructure project meant to tie much of Asia and even parts of Africa to China by way of roads, railways, pipelines, ports, etc. And much of this new Silk Road passes right through Xinjiang, the Uighur homeland.
– Abagond, 2019.
Source: mainly The Economist, BBC, Al Jazeera, Vox, and Democracy Now.
See also
- Uighurs
- East Turkestan
- Islam
- China (中国)
- Belt & Road Initiative
- Silk Road
- Tiananmen Square Massacre
- settler colonialism
- The eight stages of genocide
569
both: .
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Fascinating take on this issue. Aren’t you being a tad alarmist when you invoke the sixth stage of genocide? “There are reports of torture and even death – but not mass killings. China is headed in that direction: internment camps are a feature of stage six of a genocide.”
I ask because you failed to tell us what stage of genocide the Saudi-US war on Yemen reached in your 8/31/2018 post on Yemen.
We know the US interned people of Japanese ancestry during WWII, yet no genocide occurred, why would the Chinese go for genocide when they are turning the Uighurs into tourists in their homeland?
“Settler colonialism: Since the 1950s China has been taking land from Uighurs and giving it to Han Chinese, the main ethnic group in China. In 1945 Xinjiang was 83% Uighur. By 2008 it was only 46%. Uighurs had become a minority in their own homeland.”
“Belt & Road Initiative: Behind all of this – China’s need to crack down and much of the world’s need to keep silent about it – is the Belt & Road Initiative (BRI). Started in 2013, it is a trillion-dollar infrastructure project meant to tie much of Asia and even parts of Africa to China by way of roads, railways, pipelines, ports, etc. And much of this new Silk Road passes right through Xinjiang, the Uighur homeland.”
Could BRI and the anxiety it generates in the US, be behind your exaggeration?
I’m submitting this comment to the fifty cent army for payment. Thanks Jefe.
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Kind of a side tangent, but this situation illustrates how the “you’re lucky, you can always go back home” argument presumes the peoples in question aren’t being oppressed in their own homeland. Any Uighers who manage to immigrate to the U.S. or another Western nation are assuredly going to face some discrimination by race and religion, but things are 100 times worse in their homeland.
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@ gro jo
Locking up a million people for their religion or ethnicity is alarming to me. But maybe that is just me.
I last wrote about the Uighurs in 2009. It was bad then. It is way worse now. Maybe it will go no further than internment camps, I certainly hope so, but the trend line is not promising. At all.
Jefe would probably be in a better position to tell how I am being biased by my sources – in this case mainly The Economist, BBC, Al Jazeera, Vox, and Democracy Now.
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Jefe, is an ignoramus who writes nonsense like HK can do without water from China, and that Mao and other heavy smoker leaders of China allowed smoking because they wanted to kill off a part of the Chinese citizenry!
I merely pointed out your lack of a sober take on the plight of the Uighurs by contrasting your writing on Yemen, a much more dire situation, to your embarrassing performance here.
I’m not impressed that you are parroting “in this case mainly The Economist, BBC, Al Jazeera, Vox, and Democracy Now.”
“@ gro jo
Locking up a million people for their religion or ethnicity is alarming to me. But maybe that is just me.”
The Chinese government has done the same to Han Chinese, nothing new here to prompt the absurd claim of genocide. It’s all well and good to criticize such practices without going overboard.
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Insightful post. It appears the Uyghur are being oppressed because they are Muslim.
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Oh my, 11 million is a nation, in this case, an unfree nation. I don’t know if there is already a post, but it would be interesting to read further into the hi-tech police state as it is worrying that this is being tested on the Uighurs for possible further implementation elsewhere …
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@ Mary Burrell
Not just because they are Muslim:
https://www.google.com/amp/s/time.com/3099950/china-muslim-hui-xinjiang-uighur-islam/%3famp=true
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[…] https://abagond.wordpress.com/2019/06/04/uighur-internment-camps/ […]
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Great job Solitaire, you put Abagond to shame with his lame claim that the Chinese are engaged in ‘genocidal’ anti-Islam practices.
As the article you linked to shows, Xi Jinpin, as the captain of the Chinese mothership, is trying to stamp out mutinies from Tibetans, Uighurs and others who want to breakaway from the Chinese mothership, by violent means and with foreign help. His enemy isn’t religion but separatism.
Abagond, instead of couching your desire to overthrow the Chinese government behind phony liberal pieties such as lack of religious freedom, tell us the real reason why the Beijing boys and girls should be overthrown and what ‘brilliant’ outcome you foresee from such event. How do you know that the outcome won’t be as dire, if not worse than Libya?
When things breakdown in China, the death toll is in the tens of million.
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@ Gro Jo
“trying to stamp out mutinies from Tibetans, Uighurs and others who want to breakaway from the Chinese mothership”
They never wanted to be part of China.
The Chinese party line says differently, I know. I don’t need to hear it, I’m quite aware of the official propaganda.
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Indian Nations, Hawaii never wanted to be part of the USA, same goes for Puerto Rico and many other places. The CSA had the perfect right to secede
from the USA, but captain Abe took his licking stick and showed them that their ‘right’ was ‘theoretical’. Mutiny onboard would not be tolerated. Why would captain Xi behave differently?
I’ll hazard a guess that you wouldn’t be ok with violent “seceshers ” in the USA no matter how righteous their cause.
Can you answer my question to Abagond?
“Abagond, instead of couching your desire to overthrow the Chinese government behind phony liberal pieties such as lack of religious freedom, tell us the real reason why the Beijing boys and girls should be overthrown and what ‘brilliant’ outcome you foresee from such event. How do you know that the outcome won’t be as dire, if not worse than Libya?”
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@ Gro Jo
“Indian Nations, Hawaii never wanted to be part of the USA, same goes for Puerto Rico and many other places.”
I’m already on record on this blog as supporting Hawaii’s secession and the return of sovereignty and all land ownership to the Native Hawaiians. I would have absolutely no problem with any and all of the current U.S. returning to the First Nations. I don’t think the U.S. had any business invading and colonizing Puerto Rico or the Philippines. The latter eventually got their independence; the former should have theirs if they want it.
“The CSA had the perfect right to secede
from the USA”
Yes, we did. I have always believed that right was inherent from the beginning of the Union. The CSA chose to leave for the wrong reasons — for really terrible reasons — but we had just as much right to leave the USA as the original Thirteen Colonies had to leave Great Britain.
“I’ll hazard a guess that you wouldn’t be ok with violent “seceshers ” in the USA no matter how righteous their cause.”
I would prefer that it never reach the point of violence. Otherwise, I don’t care. If they want to secede, let them go. “When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature’s God entitle them, etc., etc.”
“Can you answer my question to Abagond?”
Can’t help you with that because I don’t believe China’s government should be overthrown.
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As always, your brilliance shines through.
““Can you answer my question to Abagond?”
Can’t help you with that because I don’t believe China’s government should be overthrown.”
Er, you did answer my question in the negative.
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Well, then help a dull muddle-headed fool out, please — how did I answer your question in the negative, instead of just side-stepping it? I didn’t address any of the rest of your points in your question to Abagond, like what the outcome of such an overthrow would be.
I mean, I don’t think I can give you any of the answers you’re looking for from Abagond here, and apparently I’m stupid enough not to understand whatever answer it is you got from my response.
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Your answer was an unambiguous no to overthrowing ‘captain’ Xi and his merry crew, despite their repression of the ‘peaceful’ Uighurs. Your answer told me that you don’t believe there’s cause to overthrow the government, so you can’t possibly harbor a secret agenda to overthrow them using ‘humanitarian’ pieties as a cover. If your answer is sincere, you’ve answered my question in the negative.
Is my answer clear enough for you?
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“Is my answer clear enough for you?”
Yes, thank you.
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Your are welcome. As always, it was a pleasure.
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Seen almost a word-to-word article on the Russian Internet, which makes me to think of a possibility this being not such a realistic description.
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Their official title “weeghors’ sounds offensive.
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Your entire post is based on western propaganda. There is zero evidence of “million Uyghurs in concentration camps”. That’s another wmd in Iraq styled lie from Western imperialists.
You really think the Western media cares about Muslims while they’re exterminating over a million innocent Muslims over the past almost 20 years?
It’s also strange that you don’t mention the Uyghur terrorists who stabbed, hacked, and butchered innocent Chinese civilians. Perhaps you’re trying to stir up Sinophobia.
If you had any honor, you would take this post down and apologize.
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@ Post Mail
If I were in the business of Sinophobia – or just a mindless believer of the Western press – I would have jumped on this way, way sooner. It is not like I did not know who the Uighurs were.
The knife attacks and the handful of Uighurs who are straight-up terrorists do not begin to excuse or even make sense of what China is doing to them. Not even close. What does make sense is the logic of settler colonialism, which requires China to make Uighurs disappear – whether culturally, physically or geographically. Like what the US did to Native Americans. Or what Israel is now doing to Palestinians. I hope it does not go that far. But already it is bad enough.
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Hello Abagond,
I have not had time to reply in the past week. Besides being busy as usual in the past week, all hell is breaking loose in Hong Kong now as you may know (more about that later).
Regarding the Uyghur situation, I do have three experiences that influence my perspective.
1. I have actually been to Xinjiang / East Turkestan. In the summer of 2005, I went on a HK tour group with my cousin visiting me from the US to the NW of China. I went to Turpan and Urumqi and a couple other places around the area. It is the only place in China that I have been to that I was very keen (at that time at least) to go back and see more. Urumqi, the regional capital, was already clearly majority Han, although there were still many districts that were still majority Uyghur. There are also other people there, eg, Kazakhs, etc. I remember spending over an hour in the main bazaar which was still primarily Uyghur. The city of Turpan (about 150km away) was still over 70% Uyghur back in 2005, so we could see what a majority Uyghur city might look like. My cousin and I missed our tour bus to take us back out of the place we were visiting, so we had to catch a separate bus that happened to be 100% full of Uyghurs, mostly elderly men visiting Turpan from Hotan, a city in the southern part of region. I was happy to experience such an environment and felt that the Uyghurs were very peaceful and dignified.
I also have the experience of both local Han and Uyghur telling me that they thought I looked like Uyghur and could easily pass. Unfortunately, I have no choice but to talk to them in Mandarin, and in several instances, I think that appeared to spook people out – If I spoke to them in Mandarin, they might try to avoid me (if on the street) or ignore me (in shops). If I pulled out a camera, then people, especially men, would try to avoid me. I sensed a very tense atmosphere especially in the districts where both Han and Uyghur mingled in the same place.
That was 2005, and I have not been back to that region. I cannot imagine 2019, but I don’t think the western press is lying, even though they might be presenting a biased perspective. There are other sources of information which offer various perspectives, which brings me to
2. International, local and mainland Chinese press are readily available and accessible in Hong Kong
The Economist, BBC, Al Jazeera, Vox, and Democracy Now are easily accessed here (as well as the stuff coming from Reuters or AFP). All of the Mainland Chinese press is also easily accessed here, in both English and Chinese. There is also a plethora of local press covering the spectrum of viewpoints from parroting the party line to representing the business community, the government stance as well as opposition voices. We can also see the press from Taiwan. If there is any place on earth where we can see the various “Chinese” and “Western” media juxtaposed alongside each other, it would be here.
Here is an article highlighting how different local papers covered the June 4th Candlelight vigil last week:
Tiananmen Massacre vigil as covered by local newspapers
https://www.hongkongfp.com/2019/06/05/media-round-hong-kongs-tiananmen-massacre-vigil-covered-local-newspapers/
Having said that, it is probably in your best interest to survey a variety of media sources to get a varied perspective. Hong Kong Free Press (the one referenced in the above link) is the only outlet left in HK that publishes in English that does not follow the government line per se. The South China Morning Post is still a relatively factual publication (and I will still read it sometimes), even though it has been bought by Alibaba, although its op-ed pieces have turned markedly pro-Beijing, even sometimes using terminology lifted from mainland publications in the same style.
The South China Morning Post will still report on the Uyghur internment camps (and in no way deny that it is happening), although you might see an op-ed which blasts western press for their “biased” coverage and hyped up inaccurate reporting (despite another article in the SCMP stating that it is happening).
Alarm bells should ring if you read anything demanding someone to “admit their error” and “apologize” (for breaking the glass hearts of the Chinese people, or something to that effect). That is almost verbatim rhetoric from the CCP spokespersons.
You should also read Sina Weibo, People’s Daily, Global Times, Xinhua, etc. not to see so much what they cover, but what they don’t. For example, they will not mention the Tiananmen Candlelight vigil in HK. They will report that 700,000 signed an online petition to support the HK-China Fugitive Extradition bill (indicating that HK people “support” the measure), but not report on the million plus demonstrators in HK this past Sunday opposing it. I don’t know a single person supporting the extradition bill, so I don’t know where these online 700,000 people came from – maybe from the 50-cent army.
Global Times is not available on Mainland Chinese apps (at least not on the mainland Chinese phones carried by people I know in HK). It is geared for foreign consumption. That is telling.
English news from CCP friendly places like Pakistan or East Africa might present more of that side. But you should also read the news sources from Taiwan too.
3. I liaise regularly with Human Rights and Environmental NGOs
I am an officer with an Environmental NGO concerned with HK’s marine environment, but I join some activities with the Human Rights NGOs, eg, to support them in the UN’s Universal Periodic Review coalition to report on the situation of Human Rights in Hong Kong. The UN Declaration on Human Rights does refer to rights to the Marine Environment, so it is not a stretch to get involved in this. In November 2018, the review in Geneva of China’s Human Rights record included multiple submissions about Hong Kong for the first time. But getting involved with this has enabled to me to come face to face with some of these NGOs, including the HK journalist association, and the NGO Human Rights in China based in New York. They have no doubt that what is happening in Xinjiang / East Turkestan is actually happening.
Now, regarding the situation in NW China, I do see it as a form of settler colonialism. The One Belt One Road plan to connect China to Europe, the Middle East and Africa is akin to the Manifest Destiny imperative operating in the USA in the 19th and 20th centuries. Native nations were in the way of Anglo settlement, and to link up the Eastern part of the nation to the resource laden Western states, and to the west coast commercial ports (not to mention the domination of the Pacific). The USA relocated them or forcibly expelled Natives from their land, pushed assimilation of Natives into Anglo communities, and even snatched their children to be re-educated in boarding schools. The expulsion of Mexican Americans and Chinese from the West was part of this too. Now we look back at US history, do we call this genocide, or at least ethnic cleansing? I am sure there are many historians who will suggest that it didn’t even happen, or it could not be helped.
I do find it disingenuous that Western media condemns the Uyghur ethnic cleansing, but is silent about their own history. Just imagine how effective an analysis between this and Manifest Destiny or settler colonialism in Palestine would be, but the Western Press will never do it.
As I write this, a melee is happening right now in Central, HK, between protesters and police. I can see on TV that umbrella carriers had just pushed BACK a police line near the legislative offices. It looks like tear gas was just deployed now and protesters are scurrying.
You may have read that over one million marched this past Sunday from Victoria Park to Central). This might be akin to a march from Times Square down Broadway to City Hall in Manhattan. However, the line to enter Victoria park stretched several kilometres back, past where I am. It would be like backing up to the 70s or 80s up Broadway and Amsterdam on the west side. So it was massive, bigger than any historical protest in HK, and arguably larger than any demonstration ever conducted on Chinese soil in recorded history.
That march was very peaceful. I was in it for 6-7 hours and no disturbance occurred. however, a disturbance occurred after midnight as police forcibly removed people hanging out in Central after the march ended.
The bill was being read again in Legco today for the final time, and crowds began this morning (and many journalists were attacked) and water cannons and pepper spray were deployed. But by lunchtime, about hundred thousand had reassembled. I didn’t go today (at least not yet), but this thing is far from over. I think it will escalate into something even more serious than Occupy Central ever was.
The Legco reading has been delayed.
**** More tear gas deployed ***
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“Global Times is not available on Mainland Chinese apps (at least not on the mainland Chinese phones carried by people I know in HK). It is geared for foreign consumption. That is telling.”
I’m having a tough time connecting to Global Times today. Jefe, can you provide a link that works?
“Now, regarding the situation in NW China, I do see it as a form of settler colonialism. The One Belt One Road plan to connect China to Europe, the Middle East and Africa is akin to the Manifest Destiny imperative operating in the USA in the 19th and 20th centuries. Native nations were in the way of Anglo settlement, and to link up the Eastern part of the nation to the resource laden Western states, and to the west coast commercial ports (not to mention the domination of the Pacific). The USA relocated them or forcibly expelled Natives from their land, pushed assimilation of Natives into Anglo communities, and even snatched their children to be re-educated in boarding schools.”
So, what’s the equivalent of slaughtering the Bison herds here? Are the Uighurs starving? Have special laws been enacted to control them and no one else?
Has the one child policy been applied to them? It was my understanding that such policy applied only to Han Chinese. Where’s the evidence for ‘genocide’?
“The knife attacks and the handful of Uighurs who are straight-up terrorists do not begin to excuse or even make sense of what China is doing to them. Not even close.”
Ok, how do you tell who the “straight-up terrorists” are and how they should be dealt with? What policies do you guys think China should adopt? Solitaire’s link gives the lie to the claim that China has an ‘anti-Islam’ policy. Why the silence on Uighur goals? Should they be an ethnic nation of pure Uighurs?
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“Solitaire’s link gives the lie to the claim that China has an ‘anti-Islam’ policy.”
My link doesn’t show that China has a pro-Islam policy, either, or even a tolerance policy.
What it shows is that China’s policy on Islam is inconsistent, and that China is using anti-Islamic measures wherever the goal is to strip away a minority ethnic group’s sense of cultural identity.
“So, what’s the equivalent of slaughtering the Bison herds here?”
That only affected those tribes who were reliant on the bison herds, primarily those in the Great Plains. The peoples of the Northwest Coast, for example, were not impacted by the loss of the bison. Yet they still ended up on small reservations, with most of their land taken away from them, their religion banned, their important cultural practices made illegal, their children sent off to distant government-run schools to be indoctrinated into “American” society, where they would be beaten for speaking their own language or practicing their own religion.
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“My link doesn’t show that China has a pro-Islam policy, either, or even a tolerance policy.”
Why would a government of a majority non-Islamic nation adopt a ‘pro-Islam’ policy? Your link clearly showed that the people in charge didn’t give a damn about religion as long as it didn’t serve as a Trojan Horse for separatist tendencies.
The Chinese government has a consistent policy of quashing challenges to its rule from ‘religious’ challengers regardless of their ethnicities. They aren’t doing Falun Gong any favors just because they are Han chauvinists.
Thanks for the US history lesson, but I think you’re smart enough to get what I’m really asking. “My link doesn’t show that China has a pro-Islam policy, either, or even a tolerance policy.”
Why would a government of a majority non-Islamic nation adopt a ‘pro-Islam’ policy? Your link clearly showed that the people in charge didn’t give a damn about religion as long as it didn’t serve as a Trojan Horse for separatist tendencies. The Chinese government has a consistent policy of quashing challenges to its rule from ‘religious’ challengers regardless of their ethnicities. They aren’t doing Falun Gong any favors just because they are Han chauvinists.
Thanks for the US history lesson, but I think you’re smart enough to get what I’m really asking.
Where’s the evidence that the Chinese government is trying to destroy Uighur culture? what laws have they enacted that target the Uighurs for destruction? Before you give me the spiel about concentration camps. you’ll have to show me how these camps are different than the re-education camps some Han Chinese had to endure because their politics clashed with what the government deemed appropriate.
I’m surprised you aren’t able to see through Abagond’s phony pose on this issue.
He wrote: “Belt & Road Initiative: Behind all of this – China’s need to crack down and much of the world’s need to keep silent about it – is the Belt & Road Initiative (BRI). Started in 2013, it is a trillion-dollar infrastructure project meant to tie much of Asia and even parts of Africa to China by way of roads, railways, pipelines, ports, etc. And much of this new Silk Road passes right through Xinjiang, the Uighur homeland.”
In his reply to my comment he states: “I last wrote about the Uighurs in 2009. It was bad then. It is way worse now. Maybe it will go no further than internment camps, I certainly hope so, but the trend line is not promising. At all.”
If he last wrote about them in 2009, why is he pretending that BRI, started in 2013, is the reason China is oppressing them and the ‘world’ is silent about their plight?
If Abagond knew about the oppression of the Uighurs in 2009, the ‘world’ i.e. the media empires of the major capitalist nations were already on the case, so Abagond’s conscience of the world act is delusional nonsense.
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@ Gro Jo
“Your link clearly showed that the people in charge didn’t give a damn about religion as long as it didn’t serve as a Trojan Horse for separatist tendencies.”
That’s only one way of interpreting it. The official policy of the Communist Party in China is still atheism. The people in charge have allowed more religious expression in recent years, but it is still under very tight control.
Or do you think that this tiny group of Chinese Jews are separatists?
Are they in any realistic way a threat to the Chinese government?
“The Chinese government has a consistent policy of quashing challenges to its rule from ‘religious’ challengers regardless of their ethnicities. They aren’t doing Falun Gong any favors just because they are Han chauvinists.”
Does that make it right? Do you oppose freedom of religion?
“Thanks for the US history lesson, but I think you’re smart enough to get what I’m really asking.”
And I think you’re smart enough to get my point. You seem to be arguing that settler colonialism must follow a predetermined path based on historical precedent, and if even one single factor doesn’t occur, then it doesn’t count.
“Where’s the evidence that the Chinese government is trying to destroy Uighur culture?”
Seriously? The government is trying to control and change how they dress, how they wear their hair and beards, how they observe religious holidays down to when they eat, and what names they give their children.
https://www.rfa.org/english/news/special/uyghur-oppression/ChenPolicy6.html
“I’m surprised you aren’t able to see through Abagond’s phony pose on this issue.”
I don’t know that it is phony. You apparently think he has some secret agenda. I don’t know whether he does or not. I do know that his concern here is consistent with other concerns he has expressed about oppressed peoples elsewhere in the world, including the U.S.
I could ask you the same thing — do you have a secret agenda? I haven’t gotten the impression that you generally approve of the violation of human rights, but somehow you always are willing to give China a pass. Why is that?
“If he last wrote about them in 2009, why is he pretending that BRI, started in 2013, is the reason China is oppressing them and the ‘world’ is silent about their plight?”
Is that what he’s doing? Or is he saying the ongoing oppression has been recently ramped up because of the BRI project?
“If Abagond knew about the oppression of the Uighurs in 2009, the ‘world’ i.e. the media empires of the major capitalist nations were already on the case”
Those media empires haven’t put the oppression of the Uighurs on the front page in huge headlines every single day for the last ten years, have they? Abagond and many other of the folks here, including yourself, pay much more attention to global news than the average American. Just because we know about it doesn’t mean it’s getting much attention or that anyone is “on the case” except a handful of reporters.
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And it’s not just Uighyrs:
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cnn.com/cnn/2019/05/08/asia/uyghur-xinjiang-china-kashgar-intl/index.html
https://eurasianet.org/perspectives-china-imprisons-kazakh-imam-it-had-praised-for-his-patriotism
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“I could ask you the same thing — do you have a secret agenda? I haven’t gotten the impression that you generally approve of the violation of human rights, but somehow you always are willing to give China a pass. Why is that?”
How is it giving China a pass when I challenge Abagond’s absurd claim of incipient genocide? Did I condemn Uighur nationalism? No, I pointed out that they aren’t peaceful and are tight with the US state department, things that the Chinese leadership frown upon, in light of these facts, I asked Abagond what he thinks of their goal and aims, the reply is hand waiving about disproportionate use of force.
NEWSFLASH, state violence is ALWAYS and EVERYWHERE disproportionate. Fred Hampton and others were murdered or jailed by the US government for advocating change and entertaining friendships with governments like the PRC.
SWAT teams were created to deal with future challenges and the intended victims are still being demonized. Abagond wouldn’t dream of calling the policies of the USA genocide so why does he feel free to do that for China’s? Why would or should the PRC be more lenient than the USA?
As for my personal view of the PRC government, I haven’t been keen on them since they refused to give shelter at their embassy in Chile to Chileans being murdered by Pinochet’s goons and their support for Jonas Savimbi in Angola.
My personal dislike for their form of government doesn’t blind me to the fact that worse forces exist and could be unleashed by their downfall leading to an orgy of violence that would lead to tens if not hundreds of million dead. Damn, there goes my 50 cents.
I don’t worship at the alter of human rights, preventing catastrophes is higher on my agenda.
“Seriously? The government is trying to control and change how they dress, how they wear their hair and beards, how they observe religious holidays down to when they eat, and what names they give their children.”
I recall a story about a white nationalist couple in the USA wanting to call their kid “Adolf Hitler” getting a lot of resistance to their wish. People have been fired for wearing Afros. Names and attires aren’t neutral, their symbolic meanings can challenge the state or be seen as such.
“on Thu Jun 13th 2019 at 11:48:15
Solitaire
And it’s not just Uighyrs:
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cnn.com/cnn/2019/05/08/asia/uyghur-xinjiang-china-kashgar-intl/index.html
https://eurasianet.org/perspectives-china-imprisons-kazakh-imam-it-had-praised-for-his-patriotism”
See my comment above on Falun Gong. You aren’t telling me anything I don’t know. At the end of the day, what do you plan to do about it?
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@ Gro Jo
“Abagond wouldn’t dream of calling the policies of the USA genocide so why does he feel free to do that for China’s?”
From his post https://abagond.wordpress.com/2017/08/17/the-eight-stages-of-genocide-2/
“America has gone through all eight steps with Indians”
From his post https://abagond.wordpress.com/2009/04/22/genocide/
“Genocide . . . [l]ike . . . what Americans did to the American Indians”
From his post https://abagond.wordpress.com/2017/01/04/white-americans/
“White wealth and identity are built on three pillars: genocide, which led to free land and anti-Native racism”
Is that clear enough, or do you actually need him to word it as “The United States’ Indian policies were genocidal”?
I don’t remember if he’s called any current policies genocidal; if I knew a way to search the comments, I would look. I do know that Abagond has been very critical of a number of US policies on this blog, over the course of many years. On what do you base your certitude that he “wouldn’t dream of calling the policies of the USA genocide”?
As far as Yemen, while he didn’t use the word genocide, he did lay blame on the US:
“But now it is the scene of the worst humanitarian crisis in the world – a man-made one made mainly by Saudi Arabia and the US.”
If you feel Abagond hasn’t covered Yemen sufficiently and/or you believe the situation there constitutes a genocide, perhaps you could offer to write one or more guest-posts on the subject.
“I recall a story about a white nationalist couple in the USA wanting to call their kid “Adolf Hitler” getting a lot of resistance to their wish. People have been fired for wearing Afros. Names and attires aren’t neutral, their symbolic meanings can challenge the state or be seen as such.”
Let me know when the US government starts forcibly putting people into internment camps for wearing Afros or naming their kid Adolf.
“Why would or should the PRC be more lenient than the USA?”
Please show me where Abagond or anyone else has said that.
“I asked Abagond what he thinks of their goal and aims”
So what do you think their goals and aims are?
“My personal dislike for their form of government doesn’t blind me to the fact that worse forces exist and could be unleashed by their downfall leading to an orgy of violence that would lead to tens if not hundreds of million dead. Damn, there goes my 50 cents. I don’t worship at the alter of human rights, preventing catastrophes is higher on my agenda.”
Okay, you definitely have a point there. But why is it an either/or proposition? Why is it a choice between the PRC’s oppression of ethnic minority groups or the violent downfall of the PRC? Are there no other potential solutions with better outcomes for all concerned?
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“hand waiving” above should have been “hand waving”
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@ gro jo @ Solitaire
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Solitaire, you’re so cute. How did you manage not to notice that I was referring to the suppression of Black nationalists when I wrote: “Abagond wouldn’t dream of calling the policies of the USA genocide so why does he feel free to do that for China’s?”
A more honest quote would have looked like this: “NEWSFLASH, state violence is ALWAYS and EVERYWHERE disproportionate. Fred Hampton and others were murdered or jailed by the US government for advocating change and entertaining friendships with governments like the PRC.
SWAT teams were created to deal with future challenges and the intended victims are still being demonized. Abagond wouldn’t dream of calling the policies of the USA genocide so why does he feel free to do that for China’s? Why would or should the PRC be more lenient than the USA?”
Since you couldn’t find the quotes where he calls US policies toward Blacks genocide, you helpfully substituted Indians for Blacks.
“Okay, you definitely have a point there. But why is it an either/or proposition?” Because the ‘human rights’ heroes “the world” i.e. the media empires of the USA and Europe are so keen to promote aren’t the ‘saints’ they are made out to be. Falun Gong holds some pretty nasty, racist views.
The Uighur ethnically pure state isn’t the kind of polity I feel any sympathy for.
Why has the ‘saint’ of Myanmar, Aung San Suu Kyi, fallen out of favor with the ‘human rights’ crowd?
Before I express sympathy for any cause I want to know that they share my values.
All I’m asking of the people who defend Uighur nationalism is, what’s in it for you, what values do you share with them?
Instead of some phony concern about human rights, genocide, etc. I want a coolheaded assessment of the political programs of the warring parties.
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Abagond, thank you for the link. The USA is only at stage 3? They have some catching up to do to get to China’s level. The USA is trailing China in 5G technology and genocide, what’s the world coming to?
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@ Gro Jo
“How did you manage not to notice that I was referring to the suppression of Black nationalists when I wrote: ‘Abagond wouldn’t dream of calling the policies of the USA genocide so why does he feel free to do that for China’s?'”
You’re right, I totally missed that. I thought you meant in general — that Abagond would not call any US policy genocide ever regardless of when, where, whom.
I also missed in my search the post about genocidal America that he just linked to, in which he does put African Americans at level 5 from 1870 to 1950.
As far as the suppression of the Black nationalists, you would have to ask Abagond his opinion about whether he considers that genocide; I don’t recall him saying one way or the other.
But I would ask you, isn’t there a significant difference between targeting the leaders of a small group versus throwing thousands of people into internment camps? Not saying that either is right or defendable — but we were discussing what constitutes a genocide.
“Because the ‘human rights’ heroes ‘the world’ i.e. the media empires of the USA and Europe are so keen to promote aren’t the ‘saints’ they are made out to be.”
I don’t believe I ever called the Uighurs heroes or saints.
“The Uighur ethnically pure state isn’t the kind of polity I feel any sympathy for.”
Can you please provide a source for the assertion about an ethnically pure state?
“Before I express sympathy for any cause I want to know that they share my values.”
Interesting. How many causes have managed to pass that stringent test? Which ones?
“All I’m asking of the people who defend Uighur nationalism is, what’s in it for you, what values do you share with them?”
First of all, Uighur nationalism isn’t exactly what I’m defending here, but their right to exist as an ethnic culture without persecution and with a significant amount of autonomy and self-determination. That could feasibly happen without the Uighurs separating into their own nation.
What’s in it for me? Strength-in-diversity of the human race. It’s just as true on a cultural level as it is genetically. The more diverse and unique lifeways, cultures, philosophies, etc. that survive and flourish, the more likely the survival of the species.
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@ Gro Jo
On further thought:
At roughly the same time the US government was murdering and imprisoning the Black Panthers et al., it was doing the same thing to AIM. But if I was asked to make a case that the US committed genocide against Native Americans, the AIM example would be very far down on my list if at all.
However, it’s also fair to say that the US govt’s targeting of the AIM leadership, when seen in the context of a history of genocidal policies and actions, can be considered yet another component of that genocidal action. And therefore it could also be fair to say that the targeting of the Black nationalists in a similar way falls into the pattern of genocidal action against African Americans as a whole.
However, I don’t feel confident in asserting that in and of itself the targeting of a small nationalist group is a genocidal policy.
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Black americans are way more oppressed
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“What’s in it for me? Strength-in-diversity of the human race. It’s just as true on a cultural level as it is genetically. The more diverse and unique lifeways, cultures, philosophies, etc. that survive and flourish, the more likely the survival of the species.”
That’s why I like you. Like all human identities theirs is labile. They weren’t always Moslem.
“The East Turkestan independence movement, also known as the Xinjiang independence movement or the Uyghur independence movement, is a political and social movement seeking independence for Xinjiang Uyghur Autonomous Region of the People’s Republic of China as a homeland for the Uyghur people, to be named “East Turkestan”. China (PRC) views the movement as a secessionist movement. Whereas, the supporters of the movement instead see it as a “liberation movement”.”
The Uyghurs are a sedentary farmer people of Turkic origin who have traditionally inhabited a series of oases surrounding the inhospitable Taklamakan Desert, which occupies much of the Tarim Basin. Regarding religion, Uyghurs predominantly practice Islam, with several Uyghur independence advocacy groups claiming that the Uyghurs embraced Islam at the beginning of the 9th century AD. The same sources claim that the Uyghurs embraced Buddhism from the 1st century AD up until that point.
“Throughout its history, the term Uyghur has an increasingly expansive definition. Initially signifying only a small coalition of Tiele tribes in Northern China, Mongolia, and the Altai Mountains, it later denoted citizenship in the Uyghur Khaganate. Finally, it was expanded into an ethnicity of whose ancestry originates with the fall of the Uyghur Khaganate in the year 842, causing Uyghur migration from Mongolia into the Tarim Basin.
This migration assimilated, and replaced the various Indo-European speakers of the region to create a distinct identity because the language and culture of the Turkic migrants eventually supplanted the original Indo-European influences. This fluid definition of Uyghur and the diverse ancestry of modern Uyghurs create confusion as to what constitutes true Uyghur ethnography and ethnogenesis. Contemporary-scholars consider modern Uyghurs to be the descendants of a number of peoples, including the ancient Uyghurs of Mongolia migrating into the Tarim Basin after the fall of the Uyghur Khaganate, Iranic Saka tribes, and other Indo-European peoples inhabiting the Tarim Basin before the arrival of the Turkic Uyghurs.[41]”
“Arguments in favor of East Turkestan independence
The supporters of Xinjiang (East Turkestan) independence generally take two routes. The more controversial route is terrorism, which consists of strategically random acts of violence against China (PRC) and people of Han Chinese descent, with the intention of “liberating” Xinjiang in mind. Terrorism is generally condemned by most sovereign states and intergovernmental organizations. Meanwhile, the second route is peaceful activism. The most prominent allegedly-peaceful advocacy groups for Xinjiang independence are the World Uyghur Congress, which is based in Germany, and the Uyghur American Association, which is based in the United States.
Arguments for Xinjiang independence which are generally more openly accepted by countries of the developed world are those which advocate for peaceful self-determination. Various justifications can be presented in order to justify this measure. Given that historical claims presented by secessionist groups are generally not accepted by developed countries due to concerns over legitimacy, peaceful advocacy groups for Xinjiang independence often instead try to find ways to prove that the fundamental human rights of the people living in Xinjiang are somehow being violated by China (PRC), and that independence is the only way to protect those people.
There are, of course, historical arguments which might indicate that Xinjiang deserves to be independent. Though, these arguments are often ignored due to concerns over legitimacy and accuracy. One common historical argument is that China (PRC) is a colonial occupier of Xinjiang, rather than the sovereign state which has traditionally ruled over Xinjiang. Evidence for this argument usually consists of allegations that China (PRC) is not the legitimate successor state to either the ROC (now based in Taiwan) or the previous imperial dynasty of China, which is the Qing dynasty, or allegations that further previous regimes were somehow also illegitimate.”
The last sentence from this Wikipedia article says a lot. It is inconsistent of you to claim that PRC is the sovereign and to advocate Uighur independence. I can see what Jefe gets out of the assertion of the PRC’s illegitimacy I don’t get your or Abagond’s stake in this business. The least bloody development, in my opinion, would be for the Uighurs to continue to develop as they have under the aegis of the PRC. All the talk of ‘genocide’ is bullsh8.
Nothing that the PRC has done to them is all that different to what happened to the Han Chinese.
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Funny kind of ‘genocide’. the population of Xinjiang was 4,047,000 in 1947 assuming they were 100% Uighur, they increased to 21,813,334 *0.436 = 9,510,613 in 2010. The total number of Uighurs in China in 2017 was
11,303,355 Tasmanians would envy that type of ‘genocide’ if any of them were still around.
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How similar is this to what the Chinese government did in Tibet? They, presumably didn’t employ the mass surveillance possible now but the result was the same – settler colonialism turning a distinct region into a loyal Han majority province.
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Today is International Uighur Language Day.
A language under attack: China’s campaign to sever the Uighur tongue
https://www.hongkongfp.com/2019/06/18/language-attack-chinas-campaign-sever-uighur-tongue/
There is a school teaching the Uighur language in Fairfax, VA (Northern Virginia suburbs of DC).
https://www.anacareeducation.com/academics
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This investigative piece by the Intercept was published over 6 weeks ago, but it reports that
-*- Hunter Biden is on the Board of Directors for Bohai Harvest RST, an investment company in China that has invested heavily in the Face++, the application being used for face recognition and other tracking applications to surveil Uighurs in NW China.
CHINESE FUND BACKED BY HUNTER BIDEN INVESTED IN TECHNOLOGY USED TO SURVEIL MUSLIMS
This has only reached the attention of US mainstream media in the past week, but it has been known since 2016.
The following year, Hunter Biden — along with former Secretary of State John Kerry’s stepson Christopher Heinz; ….
In 2014, the partners began setting up operations in China. The “RS” in Bohai Harvest RST stands for Rosemont Seneca, and the “T” stands for Thornton Group. The latter group is an international consulting firm based in Massachusetts that was founded by James Bulger, the son of the longtime Kerry ally and former Massachusetts state Senate President William Bulger.
The company, according to the Wall Street Journal, planned to raise $1.5 billion, taking advantage of Shanghai’s free enterprise zone to convert yuan to dollars to be invested in foreign companies. Business registration filings in China list Hunter Biden, Schwerin, and James Bulger as key officials at Bohai Harvest.
Both prominent Dems and GOP are tangled in a web of investments in China that has compromised their ability to serve the interests of the USA. Mainstream media has picked up the entanglements of Elaine Chao and Mitch McConnell, but has neglected Biden (and others such as John Kerry).
Will the mainstream media continue to promote Biden and look the other way even though his son is making millions off of various investments in China including applications used to track and surveil Uighurs?
All 2020 candidates must disclose these things.
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BBC published this 3 days ago.
Maybe we can study it to see if we can identify biases.
I have inspected dozens of factories and dormitories across China, so I also look at the way people respond to questions. Of course this article is edited, so likely the include footage that supports the narrative they want to tell.
Inside China’s ‘thought transformation’ camps
“The BBC has been given rare access to the vast system of highly secure facilities thought to be holding more than a million Muslims in China’s western region of Xinjiang.
Authorities there insist they are just training schools. But the BBC’s visit uncovers important evidence about the nature of the system and the conditions for the people inside it.”
https://www.bbc.com/news/av/world-asia-china-48667221/inside-china-s-thought-transformation-camps
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Jefe, your industry is commendable. The BBC is worried about concentration camps?
Love that dry British wit.
“Her Majesty’s Prison Maze (previously Long Kesh Detention Centre and known colloquially as the Maze Prison, The Maze, the H Blocks or Long Kesh) was a prison in Northern Ireland that was used to house paramilitary prisoners during the Troubles from mid-1971 to mid-2000.”
I wonder if Bobby Sands starved himself because he was frustrated with the lack of opportunity to express his artistic side?
How about the “Villagisation programme” against the Malay and Mau Mau?
“If military operations in the forests and Operation Anvil were the first two phases of Mau Mau’s defeat, Erskine expressed the need and his desire for a third and final phase: cut off all the militants’ support in the reserves.[182] The means to this terminal end was originally suggested by the man brought in by the colonial government to an ethnopsychiatric ‘diagnosis’ of the uprising, JC Carothers: he advocated a Kenyan version of the villagisation programmes that the British were already using in places like Malaya.[183]
So it was that in June 1954, the War Council took the decision to undertake a full-scale forced-resettlement programme of Kiambu, Nyeri, Murang’a and Embu Districts to cut off Mau Mau’s supply lines.[184] Within eighteen months, 1,050,899 Kikuyu in the reserves were inside 804 villages consisting of some 230,000 huts.[185] The government termed them “protected villages”, purportedly to be built along “the same lines as the villages in the North of England”,[186] though the term was actually a “euphemism[] for the fact that hundreds of thousands of civilians were corralled, often against their will, into settlements behind barbed-wire fences and watch towers.”[134] ”
I’ll bet the BBC didn’t look too closely into any of these policies while they were in effect.
I’m not picking on the Brits, the Yanks are no slouches when it comes to state repression. Strategic Hamlet Program, Tiger Cages, Extraordinary rendition, Abu Ghraib, Gitmo, etc. ring a bell?
Keep up the comedy Jefe.
https://www.historiansagainstwar.org/resources/torture/luce.html
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Interesting interview with the daughter of Ilham Tohti, the Uighur economist and academic who is presumed to be currently in prison at some location in China. He won the Sakharov Prize (2019).
She Barely Escaped China, Harassed for Her Father’s “Crimes”
(https://youtu.be/_GuBk94W1FM)
She asserts that the CCP claim that her father is a separatist and some kind of anti-China “terrorist” is a false narrative that is a pretense for repression and imprisonment. It echoes what one may see from the Hong Kong protests, as well as the attempt to paint them as some kind of “separatist movement” orchestrated by “anti-China terrorists”. Nothing could be further from the truth – in fact, that narrative looks purely ridiculous. There is no salient separatist movement and any sentiment that might appear like that to the authorities in Beijing is simply an expression for the request for the autonomy promised. What we end up with are a series of agent provocateur acts used to create an excuse for arresting people and further crackdown. The same kinds of repression techniques used in Xinjiang have been imported to Hong Kong.
The problem now appears that many CCP officials have started to believe their own propaganda.
I only made one visit to Xinjiang, but I did meet many Uighurs and talked to many and observed many more. They all seemed quite peaceful and nothing seemed violent or extremist about them at all. In fact, it is the only region of China that I really wanted to go back to and learn more. I guess such option is no longer available.
The US has used agent provocateur before to infiltrate movements they did not like, including many of the Civil Rights groups such as the Student Nonviolent Coordinating Committee, and the American Indian Movement. But those were political groups. In Xinjiang, perhaps speaking your language or practicing your religion or dressing differently is viewed as a separatist terrorist act itself and an excuse to crackdown and a reason to arrest and “re-educate” people.
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@ jefe
More likely the harsh measures in Xinjiang/East Turkestan are related to the region’s central position in the Belt and Road Initiative (BRI).
According to an article in Business Insider, Xinjiang is a major BRI land transit route to West Asia and Europe. Some observers believe the CCP is repressing the Uighurs to protect their investment in the region. The article notes:
https://www.businessinsider.com/map-explains-china-crackdown-on-uighur-muslims-in-xinjiang-2019-2
Yet again, it is All About The Benjamins.
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I think I should visit Urumchi some day–
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Good old Jefe is back with more fantastic tales from China.
“The US has used agent provocateur before to infiltrate movements they did not like, including many of the Civil Rights groups such as the Student Nonviolent Coordinating Committee, and the American Indian Movement. But those were political groups. In Xinjiang, perhaps speaking your language or practicing your religion or dressing differently is viewed as a separatist terrorist act itself and an excuse to crackdown and a reason to arrest and “re-educate” people.”
Hilarious, Why now? The “CCP” has been in charge of the region since it came to power 70+ years ago, during that time, as noted above, the population grew from 4,047,000 in 1947 assuming they were 100% Uighur, to 11,303,355.”
Can you assure us that ‘nice’ Mr. Ilham Tohti and his lovely daughter have no connection to the people who were responsible for the following? “2014 Kunming attack
Part of the Xinjiang conflict
A view of Kunming Railway Station
Location
Kunming, Yunnan
Coordinates
25°1′3″N 102°43′15″E
Coordinates: 25°1′3″N 102°43′15″E
Date
1 March 2014
21:20 (China Standard Time)
Target
Kunming railway station
Attack type
Knife attack
Deaths
35 (including four perpetrators)
Injured
143
Perpetrators
Xinjiang separatists
No. of participants
8[1]”
If you cannot, please use the traditional opening for fairy tales. “Once upon a time Ilham Tohti, the Uighur economist and academic who…”
Now that you’re back, can you answer my question to you on Open Thread?
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“Yet again, it is All About The Benjamins.”
Ok, are you advocating keeping the place backward for the sake of the mullahs? What would you do if you were in charge?
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@ gro jo
A more interesting question is what would you do?
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Lock up the ones prone to stabbing and other such dangerous practices and ‘re-educate’ the rest who might think that emulation might be the way to go. Exactly what’s being done now. Islam isn’t the natural state of the Uighur or anybody else, no ideology is. Your turn.
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Let the Uighurs govern themselves as they have for millennia. If the Han want anything in East Turkmenistan, they should partner with or seek an arrangement to compensate the local population.
Thieving, murdering, imprisoning and ‘re-educating’ a population is criminal behavior no matter who does it, be they Indian boarding school masters in South Dakota, Germans in Namibia, Russians in Alaska or the Han in East Turkmenistan.
“Islam isn’t the natural state of the Uighur…”
Then why did they choose Islam?
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“Let the Uighurs govern themselves as they have for millennia.”
They haven’t governed themselves for millennia. See my quote from Wikipedia above. The PRC inherited them from the ROC who inherited them from the Qing dynasty. The only reason their struggle is getting play in western media is the fear of a rising China.
“Thieving, murdering, imprisoning and ‘re-educating’ a population is criminal behavior no matter who does it, be they Indian boarding school masters in South Dakota, Germans in Namibia, Russians in Alaska or the Han in East Turkmenistan.”
My, my aren’t we righteous. Now explain how a population being abused to such degree managed to grow from about 4 million to 11 million? Tasmanians, American Indians and the Hereros of Namibia eloquently testify to contrary population trends under such oppression. Do you condone Uighur terrorism?
I ask because you completely ignored the Kunming railway station attack and other such incidents. My question to you still stands: How would you deal with such behavior?
“Between 1893 and 1903, the Herero and Nama people’s land and cattle were progressively being taken by German colonists. The Herero and Nama resisted expropriation[10] over the years, but they were unorganized and the Germans defeated them with ease. In 1903, the Herero people learned that they were to be placed in reservations,[11] leaving more room for colonists to own land and prosper. In 1904, the Herero and Nama began a great rebellion that lasted until 1907, ending with the near destruction of the Herero people. “The war against the Herero and Nama was the first in which German imperialism resorted to methods of genocide….”[12] Roughly 80,000 Herero lived in German South West Africa at the beginning of Germany’s colonial rule over the area, while after their revolt was defeated, they numbered approximately 15,000. In a period of four years, approximately 65,000 Herero people perished.”
“If the Han want anything in East Turkmenistan, they should partner with or seek an arrangement to compensate the local population.”
Like providing them with job skills they can use to take advantage of the economic development taking place? They claim that’s what re-education is aiming for. Do you know different? If you do, how did you come by that knowledge?
“Then why did they choose Islam?”
How old are you? I ask because the naiveté of that question astounds. How did my or you people become good Christians? Slavery. How come you feel obliged to buttress every stupidity Jefe writes with absurd arguments? are you in love with him? That’s usually the reason that women dumb themselves down like you are doing.
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@ gro jo
I really don’t care about your feud and trolling of jefe. He’s a grown man who can take care of himself and make his own arguments. I have certainly countered many of his arguments myself over the years.
I also don’t care about your opinion of my comment re: the Uighurs. I read that article about the root cause of their current hammering by the PRC. As usual, it is about more money, more land and grabbing other people’s resources aka The Benjamins.
Those actions are par for the course for rising empires. They all follow the same tiresome playbook and meet the same horrible end; torn apart from the inside, the richest devouring the poorest because they are too stupid and greedy to stop themselves. Sort of like modern America.
Only in China, people with means want to desert that ship before it is sinking. So much for your China über alles orientation. Even in a degraded America, people still want to actually live here (though maybe not for long).
I will continue to comment about China and the Uighurs when I feel like I have something to add to the conversation. What you do about that is your business.
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If you don’t care about my opinion on your comment why did you waste your time reacting to it? I’m more interested in what you actually know on the subject. You, Abagond and Jefe keep pushing separatist propaganda as if they are facts. When confronted with actual facts like the long reign of China over the region, the tripling of the population, etc. you and your friends have no answer other than repeating the propaganda points you pick up.
“Only in China, people with means want to desert that ship before it is sinking. So much for your China über alles orientation. Even in a degraded America, people still want to actually live here (though maybe not for long).”
Really? When did the bosses of Huawei, Alibaba Group, Tencent, etc. apply for US citizenship?
If the following information is correct, your Uyghurs were colonists settled in the region by none other than the Qing: “The Qing “final solution” of genocide to solve the problem of the Dzungar Mongols, made the Qing sponsored settlement of millions of Han Chinese, Hui, Turkestani Oasis people (Uyghurs) and Manchu Bannermen in Dzungaria possible, since the land was now devoid of Dzungars.[15][33] The Dzungarian basin, which used to be inhabited by (Dzungar) Mongols, is currently inhabited by Kazakhs.[34] In northern Xinjiang, the Qing brought in Han, Hui, Uyghur, Xibe, and Kazakh colonists after they exterminated the Dzungar Oirat Mongols in the region, with one third of Xinjiang’s total population consisting of Hui and Han in the northern area, while around two thirds were Uyghurs in southern Xinjiang’s Tarim Basin.[35] In Dzungaria, the Qing established new cities like Urumqi and Yining.[36] The Qing were the ones who unified Xinjiang and changed its demographic situation.[37]”
History is not a morality play.
Our current ‘natives’ became so only after the Qing dynasty wiped out the Dzungar Mongols 261 years ago. 261 years later, the PRC is trying a ‘kinder, gentler’ approach to the ‘natives’. So much for ‘self rule’ for millennia, eh? Yes, it is and has always been about “The Benjamins.”
“I will continue to comment about China and the Uighurs when I feel like I have something to add to the conversation. What you do about that is your business.”
Please do. I’ll throw my two cents in every time I feel you are leaving something out.
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*”If the following information is correct, your Uyghurs were colonists…”
Thanks for the history snippets. Are you willing to provide a link to your source?
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“Thanks for the history snippets. Are you willing to provide a link to your source?”
You’re welcome. I can’t find the article I found this information in, but you will find the same quote as the fourth paragraph of the section of titled “Dzungaria” of this article: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamization_and_Turkification_of_Xinjiang
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The US prepares to use the Uighurs the same way it used the Hmongs in Vietnam.
(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tVmliB0rVIo)
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I’m so “un-woke” when it comes to Islam’s doctrinal endorsement of violent jihad
[and some gender ideology issues, like the idea that biological women aren’t allowed to consider themselves distinct from people born with male bodies who dress like them. It’s not about their right to exist and be treated with human dignity, but about the impropriety of colonizing and appropriating terms that already have established meanings.]
The modern left really loses me with some of its contradictory positions. That’s not to say that the right is much better in that regard. Hypocrisy seems to be the rule.
Imagine the President who just stepped into office and bombed Muslim Syria – which was also invaded on “humanitarian” grounds – without congressional approval, presuming to have the moral high ground to confront China over Uighurs. If some of the things reported about China’s treatment of Uighurs is true (like organ harvesting) it is very disturbing from a human perspective. But the propaganda mouthpieces have so little credibility these days that it’s hard to know what to believe!
Anyway, I have no doubt that a Muslim majority region would develop separatist aspirations if the central government did not impose its will. We have seen in it Nigeria (Boko Haram), the Southern Philippines, and in Mozambique recently.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/isis-seizes-mozambique-town-in-bloody-escalation-of-regional-rampage/ar-BB1f5C8Z I can’t make a moral call because it is a fact that minority rights are extremely limited in most Muslim majority countries or regions. Therefore, this is simply a power struggle in its purest form and, in China, the upper hand is with the “infidels”.
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A surprisingly “un-woke” and lucid reaction from Origin! Next, he’ll see the HK riots were a provocation and an attempt to undermine China’s sovereignty over the territory? I’m getting carried away now, that may be a bridge too far. Anyway, it’s enough that he at least sees through this Uighur ‘genocide’ bs.
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Wow. What a gem of a thought!
In Mozambique people of different religious creeds have coexisted peacefully for centuries.
This land, like many other parts of East Africa, has had contacts with South Asia and Middle East before the European expansion. With those contacts came the importation of the Islamic creed. Later came the Europeans and with them came also the Christian creed in its various denominations.
There isn’t a shred of evidence of confrontations between groups because of religious creeds in Mozambique, as far as I know.
Another detail: before 2017, when “insurgent” activity began in Cabo Delgado province, the Islamic cleric in the region was warning the Government of “strange young people” entering their mosques without proper dressing and manners although claiming to be Muslims. They were upset with such developments specially because with them came also violence within that religious community.
Seen from inside the country, this “insurgency” seems less a religious or regional affirmation but more like a manipulation from outside forces trying to dispute the new riches that were discovered nearby: the extraordinary large gas deposits of the Rovuma offshore basin.
If this was about religion why the people killed are mainly Muslims?
If this was about a regional affirmation why most (almost exclusively) people killed are locals?
As it is, the central government forces – police and army – are there to protect the civilians from the terrorists (that is what they are, people bent on terrorizing civilians). At the local and national level the critics basically are saying that those governmental forces aren’t doing enough to protect the civilians.
Seen from afar it is easy to believe in all kind of narratives about events in Africa. But impressions from up-close tell oft a different story…
…Not all wars are equal!
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@ Munubantu
“This land, like many other parts of East Africa, has had contacts with South Asia and Middle East before the European expansion. With those contacts came the importation of the Islamic creed. Later came the Europeans and with them came also the Christian creed in its various denominations.”
The same is true of the Philippines. The Muslims in the southern PI were there long before the Spanish conquistadors arrived and forcibly converted most of the islands.
In this case, there is in fact a separatist movement, but it needs to be understood in its historical context. The PI consists of over 7000 islands, which were artificially united by Spanish conquest. The Muslims of the southern Philippines have been resisting foreign occupation and trying to restore their autonomy for over 450 years.
It should come as no surprise to anyone here that eventually the United States got involved and committed atrocities against the Filipino Muslims:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Battle_of_Bud_Dajo
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moro_Rebellion
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@Solitaire
Islam is native to none of these places either. Let’s keep that in mind. In certain places in South East Asia, they were there before the Christians but had themselves displaced the Hindus or Buddhists previously. In the “Middle East” Muslims had actually replaced the Christians and Jews who had predated them in places like Turkey and Syria. These religions are almost perfectly tailored to be imperial handmaidens. Though Christianity’s direct political power has been diminished in most of its former domain.
@munubantu
The additional detail is appreciated but I think people tend to “hear wrong” when these issues are broached. I didn’t say that all Muslims wanted to kill their neighbors. Furthermore Islam – as practiced – has different characteristics in different places and different “sects” as Christianity does. Believers have varying interpretations of sacred texts.
However, there are simple readings that endorse violent jihad and this couples with a sense of Arabic supremacy which glorifies the days of the Caliphate leading to what some people call “extremism”. Consequently we often see the rousing of a faction of violent fanatic “terrorists” from whom everyone needs protection.
My argument is that I have never been convinced that it takes a fundamental “warping” of Islam to achieve this. Just as I don’t think Christianity had to be “warped” to justify chattel slavery when there are scriptures in Leviticus (Chap 25.) that basically outlines the procedures for turning humans who aren’t “God’s people” into “things” that THEY own forever.
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I’d imagine that the Chinese government also concluded that there is no need for fundamental “warping” to achieve “extremism” and its self-interested desire to proactively prevent the emergence of variants of belief which challenge its own dominion is behind the Chinese government’s actions in Xinjiang.
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@Origin
Your comment about religions texts not needing to be “warped” in order to serve as justification for “extremism” led me to discover why “scapegoat” is part of our lexicon.
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@ Origin
The Uighurs also fought the Han Chinese in what is now called Xinjiang back when the Uighurs were Buddhists and Manicheans.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xinjiang#History
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Xinjiang
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There’s already been one genocide in that region. The Dzungars were Buddhists, as was the emperor who ordered their eradication.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dzungar_genocide
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@ Origin
“In certain places in South East Asia, they were there before the Christians but had themselves displaced the Hindus or Buddhists previously.”
And the Hindus and Buddhists had themselves displaced the earlier animist religions. It’s true there were Hindu-Buddhist societies ruled by rajahs in parts of the Philippines at the time of first Muslim contact, but those religions were not indigenous to the islands, either.
Although they also promote themselves as a “religion of peace,” Buddhists have been the aggressors in numerous armed conflicts throughout their history. They have expanded their realms through violence at the same time that they proselytized their religion, just like Christians and Muslims.
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When is somebody going to thank me for lifting the scales from his/her eyes? 🙂
I kid, I kid.
Solitaire, I already supplied some of the links you provided over a year ago.
” on Mon Jan 6th 2020 at 02:26:40
gro jo
“Thanks for the history snippets. Are you willing to provide a link to your source?”
You’re welcome. I can’t find the article I found this information in, but you will find the same quote as the fourth paragraph of the section of titled “Dzungaria” of this article: (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamization_and_Turkification_of_Xinjiang)”
I get the trust and verify thing, but, come on, a whole year?
Anyway, I’m here to share a video debunking BBC reporting from China on Xinjiang.
The ‘intrepid’ journalist, John Sudworth, decided that his johnny on the spot routine would be more convincing from Taiwan instead of the PRC!
Why not, when you make sh*t up you can do it anywhere.
He and his family left after claiming they were ‘threatened’. That sounds ominous, did the cpc send out the heavy brigade to beat him to a pulp? No, they threatened a law suit!
“A number of individuals in Xinjiang plan to sue BBC for producing fake news, spreading rumors about Xinjiang and slandering China’s policy in the region, Xu Guixiang, deputy director of the publicity department of the Communist Party of China Xinjiang Uygur Autonomous Region Committee, said at a Xinjiang-related press conference held by the Chinese Foreign Ministry in Beijing on March 18.”
The thugs, how dare they object to such fine journalism? (sarcasm)(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9RK5Me8maG4&t=1s)
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” on Wed Mar 31st 2021 at 15:15:58
Solitaire
There’s already been one genocide in that region. The Dzungars were Buddhists, as was the emperor who ordered their eradication.”
Why the silence on the part played by the Uyghur?
“The genocide was perpetrated by Manchu generals of the Qing army sent to crush the Dzungars, supported by Uyghur allies and vassals due to the Uyghur revolt against Dzungar rule.
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@ Gro Jo
The Uighurs were complicit, yes. They were also being oppressed by the Dzungars:
However, it wasn’t the Uighurs who called for a genocidal extermination. That was the emperor. Some of his own Manchu generals could not stomach the slaughter:
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@ Gro Jo
You’re assuming I didn’t already know about the Dzungars before your comments on this thread.
But thank you for directing my attention to your comments last year to Afrofem. You wrote then:
“If the following information is correct, your Uyghurs were colonists settled in the region by none other than the Qing”
Yes and no. In the 1700s, the Dzungars lived in what is now called Northern Xinjiang, in the Junggar Basin. It’s true that after the genocide the Qing did relocate some Uighurs there. But the Uighurs were from Southern Xinjiang, in the Tarim Basin, where most of them (est. 80%) still live.
About a thousand years before the Dzungar genocide, the Uighur Khaganate ruled over the entire area and was recognized as an independent country by the Tang Empire.
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@ Origin
“…this couples with a sense of Arabic supremacy…”
How are you defining “Arabic” here?
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Solitaire, I’d like your opinion on the plight of ‘brave’ john Sudworth and the debunking of his reportage on Xinjiang labor.
So what’s the big deal if the PRC wants to upgrade the Uyghurs’ skills by integrating them with the rest of China? As I stated many moons ago, they aren’t some pristine people who should worship a pure Islam, it’s not even certain that the Uighur Khaganate are the ancestors of the present day Uyghurs.
” on Fri Jun 14th 2019 at 02:00:49
gro jo
“What’s in it for me? Strength-in-diversity of the human race. It’s just as true on a cultural level as it is genetically. The more diverse and unique lifeways, cultures, philosophies, etc. that survive and flourish, the more likely the survival of the species.”
That’s why I like you. Like all human identities theirs is labile. They weren’t always Moslem.
“The East Turkestan independence movement, also known as the Xinjiang independence movement or the Uyghur independence movement, is a political and social movement seeking independence for Xinjiang Uyghur Autonomous Region of the People’s Republic of China as a homeland for the Uyghur people, to be named “East Turkestan”. China (PRC) views the movement as a secessionist movement. Whereas, the supporters of the movement instead see it as a “liberation movement”.”
The Uyghurs are a sedentary farmer people of Turkic origin who have traditionally inhabited a series of oases surrounding the inhospitable Taklamakan Desert, which occupies much of the Tarim Basin. Regarding religion, Uyghurs predominantly practice Islam, with several Uyghur independence advocacy groups claiming that the Uyghurs embraced Islam at the beginning of the 9th century AD. The same sources claim that the Uyghurs embraced Buddhism from the 1st century AD up until that point.
“Throughout its history, the term Uyghur has an increasingly expansive definition. Initially signifying only a small coalition of Tiele tribes in Northern China, Mongolia, and the Altai Mountains, it later denoted citizenship in the Uyghur Khaganate. Finally, it was expanded into an ethnicity of whose ancestry originates with the fall of the Uyghur Khaganate in the year 842, causing Uyghur migration from Mongolia into the Tarim Basin.
This migration assimilated, and replaced the various Indo-European speakers of the region to create a distinct identity because the language and culture of the Turkic migrants eventually supplanted the original Indo-European influences. This fluid definition of Uyghur and the diverse ancestry of modern Uyghurs create confusion as to what constitutes true Uyghur ethnography and ethnogenesis. Contemporary-scholars consider modern Uyghurs to be the descendants of a number of peoples, including the ancient Uyghurs of Mongolia migrating into the Tarim Basin after the fall of the Uyghur Khaganate, Iranic Saka tribes, and other Indo-European peoples inhabiting the Tarim Basin before the arrival of the Turkic Uyghurs.[41]”
“Arguments in favor of East Turkestan independence
The supporters of Xinjiang (East Turkestan) independence generally take two routes. The more controversial route is terrorism, which consists of strategically random acts of violence against China (PRC) and people of Han Chinese descent, with the intention of “liberating” Xinjiang in mind. Terrorism is generally condemned by most sovereign states and intergovernmental organizations. Meanwhile, the second route is peaceful activism. The most prominent allegedly-peaceful advocacy groups for Xinjiang independence are the World Uyghur Congress, which is based in Germany, and the Uyghur American Association, which is based in the United States.
Arguments for Xinjiang independence which are generally more openly accepted by countries of the developed world are those which advocate for peaceful self-determination. Various justifications can be presented in order to justify this measure. Given that historical claims presented by secessionist groups are generally not accepted by developed countries due to concerns over legitimacy, peaceful advocacy groups for Xinjiang independence often instead try to find ways to prove that the fundamental human rights of the people living in Xinjiang are somehow being violated by China (PRC), and that independence is the only way to protect those people.
There are, of course, historical arguments which might indicate that Xinjiang deserves to be independent. Though, these arguments are often ignored due to concerns over legitimacy and accuracy. One common historical argument is that China (PRC) is a colonial occupier of Xinjiang, rather than the sovereign state which has traditionally ruled over Xinjiang. Evidence for this argument usually consists of allegations that China (PRC) is not the legitimate successor state to either the ROC (now based in Taiwan) or the previous imperial dynasty of China, which is the Qing dynasty, or allegations that further previous regimes were somehow also illegitimate.”
The last sentence from this Wikipedia article says a lot. It is inconsistent of you to claim that PRC is the sovereign and to advocate Uighur independence. I can see what Jefe gets out of the assertion of the PRC’s illegitimacy I don’t get your or Abagond’s stake in this business. The least bloody development, in my opinion, would be for the Uighurs to continue to develop as they have under the aegis of the PRC. All the talk of ‘genocide’ is bullsh8.
Nothing that the PRC has done to them is all that different to what happened to the Han Chinese.”
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@ Gro Jo
“Solitaire, I’d like your opinion on the plight of ‘brave’ john Sudworth and the debunking of his reportage on Xinjiang labor.”
Global Times says he’s a liar; the BBC is standing by his reporting. Does the truth lie in between? I haven’t seen anything thus far that definitively equals a debunking to me.
“He and his family left after claiming they were ‘threatened’. That sounds ominous, did the cpc send out the heavy brigade to beat him to a pulp? No, they threatened a law suit!”
That’s not the only thing he claims happened.
“So what’s the big deal if the PRC wants to upgrade the Uyghurs’ skills by integrating them with the rest of China As I stated many moons ago, they aren’t some pristine people who should worship a pure Islam”
I believe I made it clear a long time ago that this isn’t only about their religion. Their language is being suppressed. They have a unique culture beyond their religion: their own music, cuisine, etc.
Many peoples on this planet are not “pristine” but still have a distinct culture and identity. Their lack of “racial purity” doesn’t give another group the right to forcibly assimilate them.
“It is inconsistent of you to claim that PRC is the sovereign and to advocate Uighur independence.”
I have repeatedly said before on this thread that I’m advocating cultural autonomy, which is not the same as independence. I would not necessarily be opposed to Uighur independence, but it isn’t my main concern.
“The least bloody development, in my opinion, would be for the Uighurs to continue to develop as they have under the aegis of the PRC.”
This, along with your comment about upgrading their skills which I quoted further up, is the language of colonialism. You appear to be working from the assumption that the Uighurs need the superior civilized Chinese to “help” them “continue to develop.”
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“This, along with your comment about upgrading their skills which I quoted further up, is the language of colonialism. You appear to be working from the assumption that the Uighurs need the superior civilized Chinese to “help” them “continue to develop.””
Isn’t that what’s happening as we debate? The video you claim showed no debunking, showed how the Chinese government interfered in the life of Uighurs to break them from old habits that are at odds with the development needs of the Chinese nation.
All that crap about girls being domestic beasts of burden has to go so they can become shop or factory girls.
Lying Sudworth took the PRC’s propaganda film promoting such development as progress and with a few cinematic tricks, turned it into ‘forced labor’ porn. The PRC should also sue him for plagiarism.
“I believe I made it clear a long time ago that this isn’t only about their religion. Their language is being suppressed. They have a unique culture beyond their religion: their own music, cuisine, etc.”
So, how does that make them special? We all have unique cultures that modernity, i.e. the commercial/cultural currents of the world assault on a daily basis.
“I have repeatedly said before on this thread that I’m advocating cultural autonomy, which is not the same as independence. I would not necessarily be opposed to Uighur independence, but it isn’t my main concern.”
Why are you revisiting this again, I thought it was put to bed over a year ago, are you having second thoughts about overthrowing the PRC?
“That’s not the only thing he claims happened.”
He wants a free hand to continue to lie and he’s not getting it, so tragic. The Chinese are done with people abusing their hospitality. The rest of the world should emulate them.
“Global Times says he’s a liar; the BBC is standing by his reporting. Does the truth lie in between? I haven’t seen anything thus far that definitively equals a debunking to me.”
I figured that would be your position. So, how did he show Uighur language and culture were being demolished? Has the recruitment of the girls from their village destroyed their language by ‘forcing’ them to speak Uighur accented Mandarin? That’s what lying Sudworth implied in his ‘borrowing’ of PRC propaganda. The link I provided clearly shows that, but I’m more interested in your opinion than facts here, so, how would you describe Sudworth’s editing of his PRC source film?
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@ Gro Jo
“Isn’t that what’s happening as we debate?”
So you admit you’re supporting settler colonialism?
“The video you claim showed no debunking…”
I was talking about his stated reasons for leaving China. I didn’t say anything about the video.
“showed how the Chinese government interfered in the life of Uighurs to break them from old habits that are at odds with the development needs of the Chinese nation.”
Why should the government interfere? Don’t they have enough non-Uighur women willing to work in those factories?
Why do the Uighurs have to “become shop or factory girls”?
If the government feels it must interfere to improve their lives, why weren’t those young women being urged to go to Beida? Why not recruit them as future scientists, engineers, physicians, accountants, professors?
“So, how does that make them special? We all have unique cultures that modernity, i.e. the commercial/cultural currents of the world assault on a daily basis.”
The difference is their government is putting them in camps to force their assimilation.
“Why are you revisiting this again, I thought it was put to bed over a year ago”
You’re the one who reposted comments from over a year ago, not me. I assumed that meant you wanted a response.
“So, how did he show Uighur language and culture were being demolished? Has the recruitment of the girls from their village destroyed their language by ‘forcing’ them to speak Uighur accented Mandarin?”
In 2017 the use of the Uighur language was banned in their school system from the start of primary all the way up. If you want to know what the result will be, all you have to do is look at the current state of indigenous languages in the USA and Canada.
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Maybe this Uighur Muslim woman’s life was improved by becoming a “factory girl” instead of continuing her career as a nurse?
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-07-15/uyghur-forced-labour-xinjiang-china/11298750
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“So you admit you’re supporting settler colonialism?”
You. are. funny. Apparently, your own research into the origin of the Uyghurs made not the slightest impact on you! As you learned from the sources you quoted, everybody in that region is some kind of settler colonialist from way back.
“Yes and no. In the 1700s, the Dzungars lived in what is now called Northern Xinjiang, in the Junggar Basin. It’s true that after the genocide the Qing did relocate some Uighurs there. But the Uighurs were from Southern Xinjiang, in the Tarim Basin, where most of them (est. 80%) still live.
About a thousand years before the Dzungar genocide, the Uighur Khaganate ruled over the entire area and was recognized as an independent country by the Tang Empire.”
That’s what your research showed. Added to my research that showed other people lived there and were assimilated and they all lived under Han Chinese dynasties for centuries, your talk of ‘colonialism is bs. They are all Chinese and have been so for centuries:
“Throughout its history, the term Uyghur has an increasingly expansive definition. Initially signifying only a small coalition of Tiele tribes in Northern China, Mongolia, and the Altai Mountains, it later denoted citizenship in the Uyghur Khaganate. Finally, it was expanded into an ethnicity of whose ancestry originates with the fall of the Uyghur Khaganate in the year 842, causing Uyghur migration from Mongolia into the Tarim Basin.
This migration assimilated, and replaced the various Indo-European speakers of the region to create a distinct identity because the language and culture of the Turkic migrants eventually supplanted the original Indo-European influences. This fluid definition of Uyghur and the diverse ancestry of modern Uyghurs create confusion as to what constitutes true Uyghur ethnography and ethnogenesis. Contemporary-scholars consider modern Uyghurs to be the descendants of a number of peoples, including the ancient Uyghurs of Mongolia migrating into the Tarim Basin after the fall of the Uyghur Khaganate, Iranic Saka tribes, and other Indo-European peoples inhabiting the Tarim Basin before the arrival of the Turkic Uyghurs.[41]”
If you moved from NYC to L.A., would that make you a colonialist? Not in my book, since the colonization occurred over a century.
“Why should the government interfere? Don’t they have enough non-Uighur women willing to work in those factories?
Why do the Uighurs have to “become shop or factory girls”?…Why not recruit them as future scientists, engineers, physicians, accountants, professors?”
Very good questions, are you some kind of libertarian who believes the government has no right to interfere in the social life of a nation? The cpc was founded on different principles, they believe in ameliorating the lives of Chinese people, hence, their anti-poverty campaign taking farm girls out of the countryside to the big cities where, presumably, they will find greater opportunities. The girls in the film re-edited by ‘honest’ john Sudworth seemed to be quite happy with the greater shopping opportunities such move afforded. Is it that fact that’s made you reticent to comment on ‘honest’ John’s editing skills? As for Uyghur professionals, what makes you think they don’t exist? Who trained
“38-year-old Dilnur” as a nurse? How about Tashpolat Tiyip? (China: Halt the Execution of Renowned Scholar Tashpolat Tiyip) or Ilham Tohti (a Uyghur economist serving a life sentence in China, on separatism-related charges. He is a vocal advocate for the implementation of regional autonomy laws in China, was the host of Uyghur Online, a website founded in 2006 that discusses Uyghur issues, and is known for his research on Uyghur-Han relations.Wikipedia
Born:October 25, 1969, Atush, Xinjiang, China
Nationality:China
Alma mater:Northeast Normal University (Bachelor), Minzu University of China (Master))
These professionals are repressed because they oppose, some if not all, the policies of the PRC government, not because of their ethnicity. China has trained thousands of Uyghur professionals.
“In 2017 the use of the Uighur language was banned in their school system from the start of primary all the way up. If you want to know what the result will be, all you have to do is look at the current state of indigenous languages in the USA and Canada.”
That’s true. The government insists that everyone learn Putonghua as well as their native dialects. This link shows that it’s not only the Uyghurs who are affected. If you are going to get on China’s case for decreeing an official language as opposed to the many local dialects, you should also object to the French, Italians and others, doing the same. (http://blog.tutorming.com/mandarin-chinese-learning-tips/what-is-putonghua). I want to thank you for forcing me to research this issue, I had no clue it was that complex.
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