Note: Resw will not tell us his or her gender. I will assume he or she is male since he or she insults commenters using “she”.
The case for banning Resw is overdetermined:
- He is a bully. I banned Thad and B.R. for that and they were gentlemen by comparison. Resw should have been gone long ago.
- He acts guilty when asked about being a troll. On the thread “Is resw a troll?” he wrote 89 comments, but it was deflection all the way: “She started it!”, “He does it too!”, “It’s not fair”, “Abagond is dishonest”, etc. Jeff, Sharina and v8driver had no trouble answering that question in the negative and giving their reasons, but not Resw!
- He fits the pattern of a contrarian troll. (I will do a post on contrarian trolls and work it into my comment policy.)
- He is a Russian troll. See below.
Nomad: Unfortunately, Nomad gets swept up in the last one. When I looked into whether Resw was a Russian troll, Nomad’s name popped up too, but no one else’s. The most charitable thing I can say about Nomad is that if you are going to play Bobbsey Twins with a troll, you are going down with him.
Russian trolls: I say they are Russian trolls not for any computery reason but for how their comments on Ukraine suddenly changed and changed on the same day (August 3rd 2016) – and changed soon after their commenting went from casual to dedicated. At first I thought the sudden increase in their commenting was because I endorsed Hillary Clinton, but even after she lost it remained just as high, sometimes higher.
Ukraine: When it comes to Ukraine, everyone else’s opinions and levels of interest seemed organic, not like they had just joined a cult. Interest rose and fell with the news from Ukraine. Opinions changed slowly if at all.
In 2014 when the Ukraine crisis was at its height Bulanik, Linda, Origin, v8driver, sami and others talked about it, but Nomad and Resw, like me, took little interest in it. Nothing strange in that. But in 2016 and 2017 suddenly they were interested in it, for no apparent reason, and had brand new, matching pro-Russian opinions about it too, opinions hitherto unknown. Origin had pro-Russian opinions too, but they were hitherto known – because, as you would expect, he expressed them during the crisis. His opinions and interest did not seem to come out of nowhere.
There is more: This blog has never had a great interest in Russia – and, before August 2016, neither did Resw or Nomad! But now, suddenly, for no apparent reason, they get strangely upset if I say anything bad about Russia or RT, but not when I say anything bad about, say, the US or Fox News. It is just as if they have some new tie with Russia, that goes back to at least August 2016, which they are keeping secret.
I know not everyone will agree, but it has to be decided one way or the other.
– Abagond, 2017.
Update (June 28th): You can read Resw’s and Nomad’s reaction to this post at Nomad’s blog.
Update (July 10th): Nomad has written a blow-by-blow commentary of this post. So has Resw, who has created a whole blog so he can write “500 words a day or so on whatever abagond lies about”.
See also:
519
Too bad, I was fond of my little resw, madness and all. nomad not so much.
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Resw says he has reported me to the FTC for slander and violating his privacy.
Nomad says, “Abagond was likely a paid DNC operative and it was being exposed. That was why he was so anxious to ban resw and me. ”
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@ Abagond
Nomad also said Fan was banned. Is that true?
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@ Solitaire
Fan was not banned.
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@ Solitaire
Fan last commented on December 8th. The day before he said he was having PC problems.
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I didn’t think B.R. had ever been banned. After he didn’t show up for a while, he made a couple of brief appearances, then disappeared again.
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@ jefe
I banned B.R. along with Thad but then later unbanned him under the thinking that Thad had purposely provoked him. B.R. is the only person I ever unbanned. He is still unbanned.
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@ Abagond
I thought this was Fan’s last comment, from March:
https://abagond.wordpress.com/open-thread/#comment-366097
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@ Solitaire
Yes, you are right. I stand corrected.
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Really hope him not revealing his gender had any bearing on the ban.
Finally got through reading open thread and Resw rage was at a point of using other commenters as bait to get at you. Ie Rex. While I don’t fully agree with a ban, I see how it was becoming a bit dangerous so to speak. Yet it was all emotional. Resw felt hurt by you, but not sure at what thread of what post brought about the hurt.
Nomad did not just get swept up. Nomad came to the blog with intent on “fighting”. He picked fights with you on every thread and felt that you should coddle him. Most of what he said was bat sh*t crazy.
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Wow. I never knew this is such a popular political blog. Are you going to ban any american troll, or is Russia still a solitary player in this field?:)
Enjoyed your blog since the time of Transatlantic Slavery post, and never suspected such games are going behind the comments.
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@ abagond
You said, “They get strangely upset if I say anything bad about Russia or RT, but not when I say anything bad about, say, the US or Fox News.”
On nomad’s blog, resw says, “His last comment about me not saying ‘anything bad about the US or Fox News’ is not only absolutely irrelevant, but completely false.”
In other words, you point out that they don’t criticize YOU for talking about the US or Fox News, but resw twists your words to make it sound like you said that he and nomad don’t criticize the US and Fox News. Who’s absolutely irrelevant and completely false now?
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Abagond, I agree with your decision.
My reading of these two characters from more than six months was and until now remains the same: they were (are) not acting in good faith.
It doesn’t matter whatever political or social position they seemed (seem) to defend, I never felt that they were honest in their behavior.
I’ll not miss them. For sure!
See my previous assessments of them in:
(https://abagond.wordpress.com/2012/03/06/my-philosophy-on-trolls/?c=360142#comment-360142)
(https://abagond.wordpress.com/2017/06/20/is-resw-a-troll/#comment-374415)
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Abagond,
Thanks. Good move.
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Wow im saying wow to my wife right now shes like what im like abagond just wow
I thought br left
Ok abagond you go head
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🙂
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I kinda liked nomad
And i voted no on resw{40}
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@abagond i was going to apoloogize for my regular moddied comment last night one of those oh i know i said that moments but eh maybe not right now? Anyway…
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You go ahead with yourself they say to me as if to say you are going to hear about this later, even then.
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For those who miss Nomad, he has a whole blog of his own:
https://aislec.wordpress.com/
Resw says he has a blog too but would not tell us where it is.
They are discussing this post on Nomad’s blog. You can read their reactions here:
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Abagond said,
“It is just as if they have some new tie with Russia, that goes back to at least August 2016, which they are keeping secret.”
I don’t buy that.
Nomad was adamantly against Hillary because she was pro war. In his mind she was going to start WW3.
No doubt she is a hawk and if she had become president I think we would have more boots on the ground in Syria today. But I dont believe she is crazy enough to launch nukes and persue full blown war.
My larger point is after Hillary was defeated the MSM focused its attention on Russia as being one of the reasons Trump won. Lets ignore the racsim of the country and blame Russian hackers and trolls.
Nomad was anti war (like myself) and saw the Russian bashing as propaganda. On this point I agree with Nomad. So while its true Nomad posted some bat crazy stuff I was able to parse his posittions that I agreed with.
So while it appeard that they were the Bobsey twins I believe it was resw that was playing Nomad.
Part of resw’s stratagy was to create a division amongst commentors and resw used the Russian stories as a wedge. Nomad believed resw to be a commentor with simular views and interpeted resw’s antagonism towards Abagond as resw’s “pursuit of the truth”.
I dont know what resw truly believes because what drove his comments was his dislike of Abagond. Thus resw’s contrarian attitude and his sophistry.
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Nomad didnt’ strike me as a troll just someone with opinions that are often contrary the majority opinion here. Granted I don’t have time to follow comments half as closely as the blog owner has to do. Consequently, I wasn’t following resw’s posts closely enough and didn’t comment on his/her eponymous “is a troll” thread. However, if I understand it, nomad was banned for appearing to be resw’s partner? Personally I think “banning by association” because of who you might have ocassionally agreed with is a bit unfair. But of course, who is allowed to post is the prerogative of the blog owner. Some forums are a lot more ban-happy than I have seen here.
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Abagond said,
“Resw says he has a blog too but would not tell us where it is.”
Its likely resw will never tell Nomad where his blog is even though they are “friends”.
There is a reason for that. Resw’s blog contains his real views.
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@ MJB
Touche.
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To be fair, YOUR interest in Russia spiked following the election so naturally your commentors would also be talking more about Russia. I typed Russia in the search box and got:
[posts less than a year old in bold]
Russian Hackers [Fri Mar 17, 2017]
Russiagate [Thu Mar 2, 2017]
Russian Trolls [Wed Oct 12, 2016]
Stereotypes about Russian Women [Wed Mar 9, 2011]
Russia [Fri Sep 21, 2007]
RT [Mon May 15, 2017]
Abby Martin [Fri May 12, 2017]
(best known for speaking out about Russian takeover of Crimea while at RT)
RT News Diet [Tue May 2, 2017]
Marine Le Pen according to RT [Thu Apr 27, 2017]
Reading War and Peace [Tue Apr 25, 2017]
(famous Russian novel)
Programming note #32 [Sun Apr 23, 2017]
(going on RT news diet)
So yes, the blog is not focused on Russia but became much more so following the election in conjunction with the mainstream media pushing a Russia-Trump collusion narrative.
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@ Origin
All but two of those posts were AFTER August 2016. My interest in doing them is hardly mysterious: Russiagate was (and still is) all over the news in the US and I had two commenters who kept chiding me about RT. Reading “War and Peace”, in turn, grew out of my RT media diet. The post on Russsian trolls I wrote because I suspected that some of my commenters were Russian trolls. Abby Martin I would have done sooner or later regardless.
BEFORE August 2016, I had three Russia-related posts: the two you listed and one on Georgia. Three in ten years. And one of them was a guest post.
In the past my trolls have ranted about stuff I have written about. As you would expect. Which makes it PARTICULARLY ODD that not one but two Russian-oriented trolls should wash up on my blog. Stranger still, they did not wash up at all – they had been here for years and yet had shown little interest in Russia.
What if I suddenly did posts on, say, Finland, when it is was not in the news, when I had no commenters talking about it AND I got butthurt anytime someone said something bad about Finland AND YET maintained I had no peronal ties to the country. That is the sort of change I am talking about.
They are hardly the only commenters to talk about Russia or Ukraine, far from it. It was the change that came over them, at the same time, just as they started commenting at a high rate.
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To clarify Abagond do you mean that you belive that resw and Nomad are paid Russian trolls or that their postings are like Russiian trolls ?
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Maybe I should do a post on Resw77’s comments on Ukraine compared to those by Resw.
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@ MJB
I think they were paid. After years of casual commenting, their commenting suddenly increased and then remained high till I banned them ten months later.
If you look at the Hillary Clinton For President post, Resw is the only frequent commenter who never commented on Saturday or Sunday. Over 80% of his righteous rage occurred during business hours CDT – with lunch off! Pretty spooky.
Note that CDT, Central Daylight Time in the US, is 5 hours behind the timestamp, which is in GMT.
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@ munubantu
Exactly.
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Wow. I’ll need to think on that.
Its interesting how commentors have different takes on resw/nomad. We all dont see things the same way.
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Totally odd, I wonder what they were hoping to accomplish.
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@Abagond
That was my point. Since Russia had been made into news people were now talking about it.
This is what I don’t understand. You say It’s not odd or mysterious that you started talking about Russia (from the perspective that they colluded with Trump) because it’s in the news. Why then is it “particularly odd” that other commenters would suddenly start showing interest in Russia when you did the same after rarely mentioning the country in the past decade?
Don’t the same rationalizations apply?
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@ Origin
The “talking more about Russia” was hardly led by me.
For example, on November 11th 2016, just days after the election, I did a post “It’s not about racism” about how White people were trying to deflect from the racism that brought Trump to power.
You deflected from his racism by talking about Russia, the first one to bring up Russia on that thread:
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@ Origin
This was hardly the case for the RT-related posts.
Observe:
Excerpts from Resw’s comments on RT:
2016/11/22: But we have to assume RT is all rubbish because of abagond’s conspiracy theories about Trump’s ties to Russia.
2016/12/12: The fact is that RT is not “owned by the Russian government”. It’s owned by a nonprofit that receives funding from the government, similar to PBS, BBC, Al Jazeera, Deutsche Welle, etc.
2017/01/03: You can’t take abagond too seriously. He is a paid shill. He has been caught lying about RT, lying about Putin, lying about Russian trolls, etc.
2017/01/04: It doesn’t take away the fact you’ve been caught lying or “misspeaking” about RT, Putin, and Russian trolls. Did you forget?
2017/01/04: If you want to see abagond’s lie about RT, which I caught him on, and he was forced to correct, it is here:
2017/02/23: You’d think between abagond’s provincial Univision Communications and Breitbart news “diets”, he’d actually want to go on an RT “diet” so he can actually know what he’s talking about instead of spreading propaganda.
2017/02/24: And using abagond’s own standard regarding RT, BBC shouldn’t be trusted because it’s “controlled” by the UK government. And you need look no further than its coverage of Brexit, Syria and Israel to see that it too engages in propaganda.
2017/03/30: Right, and I remember seeing Edward Harrison at least a couple of years ago. So abagond saying “it looks like RT America finally hired a Black person” was him being misleading as usual.
2017/03/30: Nomad already proved you were wrong. Edward Harrison, a black man, has been on RT long before Ashlee Banks.
2017/04/15: But that’s odd because abagond tried to convince you RT was propaganda but NYT and CNN were not.
That was all BEFORE I had written any of the RT-related post. And notice the RT news diet was HIS idea.
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@ dorisjean23
Resw never gave a straight answer to that.
I think it is like what it says in the post on Russian trolls:
Resw was crowing about commenters leaving this blog. He and Nomad were suggesting that others leave. Who does that?
Resw was intent on destroying my credibility at every turn. Still is. He has threatened me with legal action.
For example, Resw recently said this on Nomad’s blog:
The whole CDT thing is based completely on the timestamps on the “Hillary Clinton for president” post. It is publicly available information. I am not the only one who has noticed that he frequently took the weekend off. Last Saturday he was nowhere to be seen despite there being an active thread about him.
He has carefully hidden his identity so there is no chance I am going to accidentally reveal it.
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@ Abagond
“The whole CDT thing is based completely on the timestamps on the “Hillary Clinton for president” post. It is publicly available information.”
And actually it doesn’t even mean it was definitely in the CDT region. It could be someone posting between 9 a.m. and 6 p.m. EDT. Or someone posting at night halfway around the world.
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@Abagond
Nomad’s crazy conspiracy theories have gotten to you.
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“Nomad’s crazy conspiracy theories have gotten to you.”
I am a skeptic as well. I didn’t take Nomads views of chem trails, UFO’s, Clinton hit men ect to seriously.
So while rese fits a profile of a paid troll the evidence it is still circumstantial.
Its easier for me to accept that he had a vindetta against you for being “disrespected” or whatever.
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@ sharina
Ironic if true: Nomad talked so much about conspiracy theories that I started to see him as part of one. Likewise, Resw talked so much about me being propagandist that I started to see him as one.
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@Abagond: Those two were playing some mind games with you. I actually thought they would literally destroy your blog.
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Note that while I can stop people from commenting, I cannot stop them from liking comments or posts. Nomad and Resw continue to do that, Resw under the name of abagondlies.
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@Mary Burrell
I agree. Before abagond banned them I was going to ask “What is the end game?” because at some point there has to be one.
If Resw goal was to expose abagond of his lies, then by his own posts he did just that.
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@abagond
Talking about issues that came up in the pre-election debates is “deflecting”? Is the comment section strictly for cheerleading. Do you want all comments to be in agreement with you? Specifically, was it a problem for you that I DO NOT believe that the election was only about race? Is refuting your position then “deflection”? Quite a few anti-war people refused to vote for Hillary and saw more in common with Trump based on what he said during the campaign. That was the point of the post you cherry-picked.
Anyway, I don’t think there is anything wrong with talking about Russia. My point was that we were in an election season where Russia has been in the news [justifiably or not] and the number of posts you made on Russia also increased in the period following. So I don’t get why you are so surprised that other posters were talking about Russia as well. To me it was organic discussion.
In your other post you have shown that resw made many comments about RT. However, it’s really hard to take anything away from that without the context of the thread(s). Was it out of the blue or was it part of an ongoing discussion?
Anyway, I find this one quote funny in light of some videos [Van Jones saying Trump-Russia is a “nothingburger”, a producer calling it BS] and retractions which have recently come out:
CNN and NYT are looking A LOT more like blatant propaganda right now than they did even a few months ago.
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Let’s just hope some more sense comes back. No more Melanin Theory White people are genetically evil wink wink nod nod posts with links to torrents in the comments section. No more reaching out to Asians – they are genetically evil and will destroy black people. No more race hypocrites and trolls No more MSNBC type B.S. That is not why people come here. One Trumpost a fortnight is enough. Thank you.
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@ Origin
Your original point was:
But now you are moving the goalposts.
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As noted above, Resw and Nomad are discussing the banning on Nomad’s blog:
The best summary of Nomad’s and Resw’s position on that thread, after some initial venting, seems to be this:
Nomad:
Resw:
In short, disagreement led to name calling, and then it was fighting fire with fire from then on.
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Something I have seen with this banning that I have not seen in the past are emails from lurkers in favour of the banned.
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@Abagond
I thought the percieved disrespect was when you called them “The Trump Non-Fan Club (Fan, nomad, Origin, resw, etc)”. Did it start earlier?
“Something I have seen with this banning that I have not seen in the past are emails from lurkers in favour of the banned.”—Nomad was a necessary ban, but like Origin, I hope it was not based on association alone. As much as he liked to play on forgetfulness and naivety, I think he is very much aware. I find it hard to believe he was attacked first when I can pull out two instances where he attacked me first and tried to play on “it wasn’t clear”. Either way nomad knows what he is doing and using the victim role very well. Heck he uses it better than LOM.
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Well i see they are having their hate fest on Nomad’s blog and that’s okay with me I am not trying interested in a pi$$ing contest. The two of them were nothing but sh*t stirrers. I like this blog and the author of it. I just come to read and learn things, it’s a shame it had to get so ugly.
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She who shall not be named!
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@ sharina
Resw says it started on September 28th when I told villagewriter:
This is where Resw said I “changed”.
He said this was because he “refuted” my claims about Hillary Clinton (most of which I never made).
Here is what I thought about his refutations as of August 4th:
But as he tells it, this was me being unable to bear hearing the truth about Hillary Clinton.
We were never all that far apart on Hillary Clinton. It was the blind eye he kept turning towards Trump, which led him into moving goalposts and making disingenuous arguments, stuff I did not remember resw77, the old resw, doing. It became a waste of time arguing with him. Thus my “sometimes a troll” comment. To him those were fighting words.
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Well trump didnt come up on the inside track and our whole gov’t is a literal ‘dogpile’ which i liken the term to american football after a fumble recovery
http://www.cnn.com/2017/07/01/politics/congress-trump-war-power/index.html
“How Congress is taking back power from Trump on national security”
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NJ’s gov’t is shutdown now too.
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Nomad wrote a new post wherein he gives a blow-by-blow commentary on this post:
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Nomad also wrote this:
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@Abagond
Nomad is pulling an xprae.
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On Nomad’s blog, Zoe has been complaining that people here made bigoted assumptions about her, but she just made a whopper herself.
Villagewriter spoke at the following link about the first African American he ever met:
Zoe has decided this obviously means Villagewriter is white, because of course African American = all black people everywhere in the world. Instead of, you know, a black African talking about the first black American he met.
She then goes on to disparage Villagewriter extensively based on that assumption:
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@ Abagond
Have you seen this piece of work?
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It is possible I made a mistake in banning one or both of them, but if so I am unlikely to see that until I have gained some distance from the event, maybe in like in six months to a year. Right now I am too caught up in the moment.
So the best thing is to move on and review the matter in six months. I am writing myself a letter which is scheduled to appear on January 3rd 2018.
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@ Solitaire
Wow. I guess I should be flattered. Thanks for the heads-up.
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@Abagond: Can’t you just ignore them and just let them go?
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@Solitaire
She is attacking villagewriter why though? If I am not mistaken villagewriter was very calm and patient in the exchange with her.
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@ Mary
Yeah, you’re right. I am making too big of a deal out of this.
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^ OMG! Abagond used a contraction! Stop the presses!!!!
😀
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@ Sharina
I thought so, too. But then there were comments I made that I thought were attempts at mediating that Zoe sees as personal attacks, or ones I thought were innocent questions that she sees as demands. So who knows. She’s carrying a huge grudge against you, me, and Afrofem. They’re just all having a pity party over there, including a guest appearance from B.R.
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Wow and had no real issue with B.R. Except that some commenters in the past thought he was creepy.
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Okay now I see or think I get why B.R. left. I remember back then a really big argument, but not sure how it went down. I remember him and Linda going at it about his fetish of black women. hmmm…
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@Abagond
If possible could you tell me the last thread B.R. commented on. I am curious on the exchange he is referring to with sam and bulanik running him away.
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@Sharinalr: And he hated Bulanick and Ebonymonroe. And there was the back and forth with him and Kiwi.
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@Mary Burrell
Dang and Ebonymonroe was a very respectful person. Though B.R. would easily get mad if you said anything remotely about his son or wife or his lack of knowledge in music.
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@ Sharina
I don’t know which was the last thread, but they really get into it in this one (massively off-topic, too):
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@Abagond
I don’t understand this claim. How have I moved goalposts? I’ve only used different phrasing to further explain myself and clarify. Do I have to repeat things verbatim like a robot in order to avoid that accusation?
The original context of the statement of mine that you quoted above followed a quote of a part of your blog post:
And I followed with the statement you quoted (“To be fair, YOUR interest in Russia spiked following the election”). After reviewing a few of your posts I said: “So yes, the blog is not focused on Russia but became much more so following the election in conjunction with the mainstream media pushing a Russia-Trump collusion narrative.”
You were implying that Russia discussion (by a few posters) came out of the blue so I mentioned that you were engaged in them as well. That why I said “to be fair”.
Then I said this in the post in which you claimed I moved goalposts:
The essential content of both posts is the same. That is, everybody was talking about Russia (including YOU) so why are you so surprised that a couple posters were also doing so. There was an “apparent reason” and you yourself alluded to it in your initial response.
abagond:
To which I replied:
Clearly, I’m not saying anything is wrong with talking about a topical issue. You did it, I did it. The “apparent reason” for talking about Russia was the pre-election concern about the events in Syria (Hillary’s no-fly-zone etc.) and the post-election claims of Russia “hacking the election”.
Then I quoted you:
And I said:
It should have been clear that I had no problem with Russia discussions but didn’t understand why you impute nefarious motives to two particular posters for talking about Russia when it wasn’t that unusual during the period in question. You use this as PROOF that they were up to no good when other people (including the MSM and you and me) were doing the same. That was my original point and it’s still my point. I haven’t moved goalposts anywhere.
Nomad and resw were banned, in part, for doing what many people were, and still are, doing: talking about Russia. However, they had a different opinion (you’d say pro-Russia, I’d say more fair to Russia) and that would appear to have weighed very heavily against them in the decision to ban them. You can ban anyone you want, of course, but you voluntarily opened your decision and thought process up to scrutiny voluntarily that’s why I am commenting on it.
I don’t buy your attempt to present their banning as the result of uncovering a truth that they’re pro-Russian trolls. You (and some others) didn’t like their opinions and they posted pretty frequently and you wanted it to stop. You had the power to make it stop and you exercised that power. I don’t think there is necessarily a moral issue as this is a private blog but I do think that this post explaining the bans is mostly PR.
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@ sharina
B.R.’s last comment:
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@ Origin
I did not ban them for talking about Russia. Otherwise I would have banned nearly everyone here. Nor did I ban them for their opinions on Russia. Otherwise I would have banned you – your opinions are not all that different from theirs.
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The last thing i remembrr with br was something about african bootyvdancing and then he perceived that he wasnt valid being non-black but he was proud of his musicsl knowledge and career, particularly with afrolatino rhythms and then he was saying some wierd stuff about his wife and brazil and he was gone
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@v8
I agree. He got pretty weird close to him leaving. In that thread above he was talking about people being anti-interracial sex and I don’t remember that being the case. There was a bit of anti-interracial couples type thing but was not that serious and people were clear on why.
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I had to check back but BR got p1$$ed off with me on the Porn thread. Also other commenters he thought were ‘uptight’.
Incidentally Abagond or anyone, when I read back, there are comments missing from Pumpkin – why is that?
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@omnipresent now it’s coming back to me
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Abagond just now
Abagond in OP
Clearly, at least in the case of nomad you banned him because you alleged he was a “Russian troll” and you didn’t have a “computery reason” (i.e proof) you just didn’t like what he was saying and chose to brand him as such. [I think nomad is male, apologies if I’m incorrect]
Yes, I share some opinions with them and I have in the past been grouped with them as some kind of “fan club” (IIRC) but I do no post as often as they do. Clearly their active participation factored in their designation as trolls and their eventual bans since you say they went from “casual to dedicated” and they had a “sudden increase in commenting”. [Yet I think many posters, mjb, scribh, myself, posted more than usual during the election period and after]
So by your own words the perceived pro-Russian content of the posts and their frequency as well as a perception that he was allied with resw weighed heavily in your decision to ban nomad. I agree that you haven’t banned other posters for talking about Russia. You’d have had to have banned yourself too. That’s what I was commenting on.
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@v8driver
What is coming back to you, B.Rs annoyance, the thread itself or my question about Pumpkin?
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@omnipresent br’s meltdown, wow pumpkin hasn’t been for a minute, and i am certainly not with enough luxury time to comb back through everything, it just seems everyone’s guard is up lately, pinpointing this and that….
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@ Omnipresent
She presumably asked me to delete them.
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@ Origin
I wrote a whole post about this, but you keep picking out parts of it and making that the reason for my actions. Any one thing by itself is innocent. But together it was too suspicious. Yes, it is still just a circumstantial case, but that is as close as I am going to get in these affairs.
The standard of proof is not like for murder. I am not sending them to prison or hanging them. Even from a free speech point of view, they got to air their truths at great length. They know that. And, unlike them, I am doing nothing to poison or bring down their blogs.
I thorougly understand that my politics may have got the best of me. That had been Resw’s mantra since who knows when. It is why I did not ban him way sooner. That is why, as a sanity check, I ran a poll and had an open thread on the matter.
I understand they do not agree with my decision, but I tried to be as fair to them as I could.
If you or they want to pick apart my decision, go for it. Maybe I was wrong and in time I will see that and learn from it. But I have to move on. I have already wasted way too much time on this.
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V8driver
@omnipresent br’s meltdown, wow pumpkin hasn’t been for a minute, and i am certainly not with enough luxury time to comb back through everything, it just seems everyone’s guard is up lately, pinpointing this and that….
I’m not sure what you are saying here – have I crossed a line or something? Not intending to, just noticed that there were posts missing from this person on that thread….
@Abagond
She presumably asked me to delete them.
I didn’t realise commenters could do that with whole swathes of conversations
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@omnipresent no i don’t have any issue with you! I just think there has been a lot of somewhat pedantic bickering lately here?
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In general. Referring to comment 109 out of x on this post and that, like. Kinda going backwards if ya ask me.
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I said:
Resw has now written one too:
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You did write a whole post but you gave only one reason for banning nomad: that he was a Russian troll, an accusation for which you had no proof. The only circumstantial evidence is that he often agreed with another poster who you also branded a Russian troll. (“The most charitable thing I can say about Nomad is that if you are going to play Bobbsey Twins with a troll, you are going down with him.”) The example you gave about their opinions on Ukraine “changing at the same time” seems like confirmation bias. Again it’s no surprise people were talking about Russia in 2016-2017. Even Trump was talking about how Obama was soft on Russia over Crimea.
Anyway, it’s not that I consider and announcement necessary but since people from this blog are reading nomad’s, and I introduced myself there, I’ll just mirror my sentiment here so it doesn’t seem as if I’m speaking behind abagond’s back. Currently, I find nomad’s opinions on current affairs more interesting (even when I’m not fully in agreement with him) than the regurgitation of MSM talking points that has sadly come to characterize much of the commentary here.
Thanks for the link to aislec.
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abagond
While it is tempting, I think what Mary said about moving on is sage advice. I get why Taotsan is upset because in the past what LOM did would have gotten him banned. GR harassment of me eventually got him banned. B.R. and others banned for the same line of harassment.
However, someone has to be mature enough to move on. The reason it got this far is because no one wanted to move on. People wanted to get mad on one thread and take it to every single thread. Let them have there pitty party, but you have to focus on writing posts of substance. I doubt Nomad writes any consistently real posts past “Why I hate abagond and abagond lied”. If he does I will gladly take it back, however let them milk it.
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@ sharinar
Thanks. I agree. Well said.
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@Solitaire
Here is the response I wrote to Zoe @ Nomad’s but not sure it will even make it past moderation.
I am actually convinced that she is not sane and seeks people to validate this level of insanity she displays. The girl is very delusional.
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@ Sharina
Thanks for posting it here. It’s obvious Zoe has a completely different take on what happened. I told her at the time she was also making assumptions and basing her replies on them — that was in regards to her assuming Villagewriter was from the U.S., but she was obviously making assumptions about you as well. It’s too bad that we all weren’t able to calmly clarify who we were and where we stood and continue to have a constructive conversation. She doesn’t seem to be interested in that.
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@ Sharina
Also — at least you’re only a drunk. I’m a psychological torturer at Guantanamo and secretly Patty Hearst. SMH.
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Origin said,
“Currently, I find nomad’s opinions on current affairs more interesting (even when I’m not fully in agreement with him) than the regurgitation of MSM talking points that has sadly come to characterize much of the commentary here.”
About half a Nomads posts remind me of the click bait that pops up on my F.B. feed. (more on that later)
I do think that Abagonds reliance on the MSM as a news source does off put those of us with a more radical ideology and who clearly see U.S. Imperialism for what it is.
His Russian posts did make me cringe and I see the Russian obssesion as U.S. propaganda. That Abagond belives thise things personally doesn’t make him a “propagandist”.
People become emotionally attached to the blog and then when Abagond finally writes something they disagree with they loose their minds.
This raises the question of where you can find news sources that can be trusted. The short answer is that you can’t.
News has to be parsed and reduced to its bare minimum.
For example: A Russian citizen was shot dead in the Ukraine. U.S. news reported that Russia had assassinated him. RT reported that the Ukrainians has assassinated him. It’s possible he had organized crime ties and was killed. It ia also possible that it was a random muder. The point is we cant know what really happened other then a Russian citizen was mudered in the Ukraine. News gets spinned for political purposes so it has to be gutted.
The alternative news can be a good source but it can be spinned for a particular audiance or facts emblished upon to attract viewers.
I am a skeptic when it comes to trutherism, chem trails, the illuminati, aliens, religion ect. To me this stuff is static and one’s mind needs to be clear of it in order to be free. Otherwise these distractions control you.
So rather then talk about the “why” behind the towers coming down, elaberate conspiracies fill the space. Its a lot easier for me to accpet that 9/11 was payback for U.S.Imperalism.
I also think Abagond needs to reevaluate how to deal with commentors on his blog. Abagond strives to be fair and follow a set of rules to create a more egalitarian atmosphere. What has become apparent to me though is that it is black commentors who become the ones most disrupted when a white commentor like LOM is allowed to get away with disrespecting people even though technically he hasn’t brocken the rules that would have gotten him banned. A Black centric blog written for POC needs to be protected from certain WP so Abagond you can’t be fair.
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@Solitaire
My favorite saying is “When you assume you make an ass out of U and ME”. Her assumptions really only reflect her conditioning and programming. For example, me being a black woman is assumed to take issue with her father a black man having a mixed child, because as the stereotype goes “black women hate seeing black men with non-black women”. Another thing to note is she is once again labeling her father as Black, even though she repeatedly said he was not Black. When this is pointed out she tries to get by with saying black is a descriptor when it is clear it is not being used in that context.
“It’s too bad that we all weren’t able to calmly clarify who we were”—I personally don’t think it is our job to clarify who we are. Just like it was not really her job to clarify for us who she was, because the assumption should have never been there. This is why I see her as a armchair activist and not a real one. The fight is not to assume and hold on to stereotypes. Not reinforce them.
In the group I am in she would have to answer for all her assumptions. One thing I notice that they do is if you are problematic in anyway they do a public post about you and what you said that is problematic and ask members of your ethnic group to “come collect”. This means that they are to explain why it is problematic and ask them to address them. I have seen quite a few people reflect and apologize. For example, if the person is Arab then Arab members of the group would collect.
” I’m a psychological torturer at Guantanamo and secretly Patty Hearst. SMH.”—I’m still trying to figure out how she came up with that one.
Sorry for the long post.
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@michaeljonbarker
“People become emotionally attached to the blog and then when Abagond finally writes something they disagree with they loose their minds.”—Fully agree. However, part of being an adult is realizing everyone is an individual and no one thinks the same. Too many people these days want an echo chamber. Too many people also believe their opinions are documented facts. Those two things are a recipe for disaster because dialogue is lost. When someone disagrees with an opinion and counter it with facts, then individuals having to face those facts are often unable to deal and just get mad. I don’t care for his political posts so I don’t comment on them. I also don’t follow the news to have much to say.
“So rather then talk about the “why” behind the towers coming down, elaberate conspiracies fill the space.”—Bingo. You said what I couldn’t put into words. My biggest issue was serious and thought out conversation was turning into wild conspiracy theories with no backing other than “because I know”. Who wants to comment on a blog when that is what the comments amount to?
“Its a lot easier for me to accpet that 9/11 was payback for U.S.Imperalism.”—From a lot of what I have read I actually believe it was.
“I also think Abagond needs to reevaluate how to deal with commentors on his blog.”—Fully agree. In the past what took place would not happen because it was shut down before it got too far. People were warned and then the ban was quick and painless. I think abagond can be fair, but to do that he has to not allow other instances where he allows commenters to get under his skin or allow it to go this far. 3 strikes and you are out.
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@ michaeljonbarker
“A Black centric blog written for POC needs to be protected from certain WP so Abagond you can’t be fair.”
That leads the blog into a “safe space” model of commenting. The safe space model is warm, fuzzy and insular. It can also become stultifying. It can shrink the commenters emotional range and dull critical thinking.
For some audiences and personalities the safe space model is appropriate. For example a group of people seeking respite, comfort and protection.
The “free speech” model of commenting is inherently risky. People will inevitably disagree. Emotions can spiral out of control, leaving some commenters angry, hurt and disaffected. Some people go to extremes of abrasive or vengeful behavior. Some will leave in a huff.
The upside of the free speech model is increased learning and a corresponding development of mental sharpness. Emotional maturity and degree of ego detachment are more easily developed in a free speech comment environment.
Free speech is not for everyone.
I think the free speech comment framework that Abagond set up years ago is a major element of the blog’s success and loyal fan base. That framework along with Abagond’s original (and highly varied) content, creates an atmosphere of intellectual stimulation that is hard to find on other sites that rely heavily on curated content, personal griping or “fact free” reporting.
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@.Afrofem.
I’m not reffering to a “safe place mode”..
You can still have contraian opinion and dissent.It just needs to be done on a way that doesn’t disrespect the integrity of other posters or the blog owner.
Randy was a white centric conservative who was able to argue his point without personally attacking who he was debating.
To me free speech and disrespectful behavior towards an individual are two different things.
I would agree with Origin that Abagond’s reasons for banning Nomad are all circumstantial. Nomads banning didn’t make sense to me. Banning LOM did because of his refusal to apologize to Taotason and his continual disrespect of other posters.
The question becomes does a poster offer contraian opinion that expands the idiological and phlosophical dynamics of the blog or is the poster sowing distrust and disrespect thus creating a toxic environment ?
It seems to me that question would be easier to answer then a set of guidelines that allows disingenuous posters to manipulate in order to avoid banning.
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@michaeljonbarker: Randy was racist as hell the thing that was the gag for me he could eloquently articulate his biased opinions and never use profanity or ad hominem attacks.
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Hi Mary. . .Exactly.
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I wasn’t sure why lom didn’t post ok then.
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@MJB
” is the poster sowing distrust and disrespect thus creating a toxic environment ?”—Then if this question is applied it is easy to see why Nomad was banned. When you disagree with him is response was to call names. Not further the discussion in a constructive manner.
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Rews was simply the one people loved to hate because he was so upfront and out there in what he said. I was taught a long time ago to beware of the snake in the grass and I believe nomad to be just that.
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Sharina said,
“Then if this question is applied it is easy to see why Nomad was banned.”
So the answer becomes somewhat subjective and ultimately would be Abagond’s choice.
I know you and Nomad got into it a few times but I didn’t follow your exchanges closely. I never argued with him. The things he posted I disagreed with I ignored.
Some things Nomad posted I did agree with and I found some of his links he left useful.
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Sharina said,
“Then if this question is applied it is easy to see why Nomad was banned.”
So the answer becomes somewhat subjective and ultimately would be Abagond’s choice.
I know you and Nomad got into it a few times but I didn’t follow your exchanges closely. I never argued with him. The things he posted I disagreed with I ignored.
Some things Nomad posted I did agree with and I found some of his links he left useful.
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@ michaeljonbarker
“To me free speech and disrespectful behavior towards an individual are two different things.
Agreed.
The question becomes does a poster offer contraian opinion that expands the idiological and phlosophical dynamics of the blog or is the poster sowing distrust and disrespect thus creating a toxic environment?”
Over the years, you and other longtime commenters have seen examples of both true contrarians and malicious trolls. What is that fine line that separates the two? When does a passionate contrarian cross the line into troll behavior?
On some level, MJB, a troll is in the eye of the beholder. I agree that some trolls are so obvious that it is easy to isolate them and pick them off. For example, the driveby racists and islamophobes. Ditto for the conceited and insulting bigots——who all seem to be from France or Russia.
However, other commenters are labeled trolls because they are too self-absorbed or inexperienced to know they are trampling on the feelings and dignity of others. Still others are labeled trolls for (maddeningly) repetitive rhetoric or the refusal to admit error. Troll or not, they have to face the consequences of their behavior, just like the rest of us.
I think whatever system a blogger sets up whether it is free speech, safe space or some hybrid of the two, there will always be people who game the system to manipulate, disrupt or advantage themselves in some way.
To me, a true contrarian can skirt what we would consider troll behavior without crossing to the other side because the contrarian possesses a sense of limits and boundaries (aka decency). The contrarian knows that sharing their opinion does not entitle them to run roughshod over the opinions and feelings of others.
The troll, on the other hand, does not care about limits and boundaries. They attack, insult, undermine and manipulate others for their own amusement. They don’t care about the toxic environment they create by constant thread derailments and name-calling. They wallow in the discord.
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@MJB
“I know you and Nomad got into it a few times but I didn’t follow your exchanges closely.”–That’s because there were not many exchanges to follow. We had an exchange on a total of 2 threads. Program #30 and Is rews a troll.
“The things he posted I disagreed with I ignored.”–I think that the optimal route would be to address the misinformation and then leave, especially if the followup is name calling. I see it as necessary to challenge misinformation because that lie will spread like wildfire. Like how memes are taken for a fact despite the access to an abundance of information to learn more.
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@MJB
I need to clarify in my use of exchange, because we had a passby of “I agree” prior to those posts.
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@Afrofem
Do you feel a blog can progress without banning trolls? For example, simply ignoring them. Or is a ban a necessary matter to preserve the blog?
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@ Sharina
“Sorry for the long post.”
Don’t apologize! It actually makes me feel better not to be the only one who runs verbose!
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@ Sharina
That is hard to answer.
I think it is up to the individual blogger. Every blogger and site owner has different limits and value systems.
I think actual bloggers like Abagond, Trojan Pam or Nomad, etc. would be better qualified to answer that question.
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