Disclaimer: This post talks about White Liberals in general. NOT ALL of it applies to every single White Liberal.
White Liberals (fl. 1934- ) are those White people in the US who believe in capitalism (aka rich people, aka the 1%, aka big business and big banks, aka donors) but who also believe in using government reform to take off its rough edges, to make society more fair and equal (aka tolerable) and the earth liveable. Centre-left Band-Aid capitalists.
According to polling, in the US in 2015 they made up about:
- 50% of White Democrats and those who lean Democratic
- 20% of White people
- 14% of voters
Political polarization: Their numbers are growing because fewer and fewer people are taking middle positions. But Whites as a whole have moved to the right under President Obama.
As seen on TV: White Liberals have a huge effect since the national media is heavily White and is largely based in New York and Los Angeles – in their heartland.
- Size: About 40 million.
- Location: Their heartland is in the north-east and the west coast.
- Examples: Presidents Franklin Roosevelt, John Kennedy, Lyndon Johnson, Jimmy Carter, Barack Obama and, arguably, Bill Clinton. And, it seems, most of the country’s news reporters, professors and film stars.
- Subculture: NPR, Starbucks, Stuff White People Like, MSNBC (during the Obama years), New York Times, New Yorker, Huffington Post, Hollywood, universities, science, gentrification, cultural appropriation, etc.
- Out-groups: Southerners, the poor (same thing as Blacks and Latinos).
- Religion: liberal to nominal Christianity, Judaism, consumerism.
- Bible translations: NRSV, RSV, none.
- Their god: material success.
Beliefs:
- class reductionism: Class matters more than race. Black people are best understood as brown-skinned poor people. They can best be helped by “lifting all boats” – which always leaves White boats well above Black ones. Oops!
- secularism: Religion is a private matter and should never shape government policy.
- Racist Uncles: It is always someone else who is racist – Hitler, the Klan, the South, the 1950s, their uncle – but never them. How strange!
- White paternalism: White people know best! Just like in all those White Saviour films – which they do not count as fantasy or science fiction. Oh, and not just any sort of White people, but a special kind:
- bicoastalism: The White people with university degrees who live on the east and left coasts know best! The rest of the country – the rest of the world (except maybe Paris, London and Rome) – is in need of their enlightenment. Whatever most of them believe is right, almost by definition.
Note: Many Whitewashed people of colour believe the same things.
“Truth has a liberal bias” – because White Liberals by and large control the media and universities.
Stokely Carmichael on White Liberals (1969):
“his role, regardless of what he says, is really to maintain the status quo, rather than to change it.”
“they tell us that while things have been bad in the past, somehow they can become good in the future without restructuring society at all.”
“He never says to the oppressor, ‘You are too extreme in your treatment of the oppressed,’ [… but is] always cautioning, condemning, or certainly trying to direct and lead the movements of the oppressed.”
– Abagond, 2017.
Update (January 23rd): Added a NOT ALL disclaimer.
Sources: NPR, Pew Research, Brilliant Maps.
See also:
- Black Liberals
- White Americans
- White Evangelical Protestants – the post that I modelled this one on
- The White Liberal Guide to Black People.
- beliefs
- culture
- The 2016 election by county
Illinois is definitely a blue state; the only one in the middle of the map during the Trump election; this map is wrong…
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@ the wacktress
Illinois, and several other states, were blue thanks to people of colour, because most of their White people had voted for Trump.
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There is also the rush to invoke “Hitler” or “Nazis” as ultimate evils while not acknowledging the source of many of Hitler’s ideas: The American Eugenics Movement of the late 1800s to early 1900s.
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Interesting. I am white and a Liberal or Progressive or whatever, as are most of my friends. Is this essay your viewpoint of Liberals or another group summarizing Liberals? (I’m trying to get my head wrapped around who is doing the analysis.) While I agree with some of this, I am going to disagree with most of the “Beliefs” ascribed to Liberals. Please keep in mind that I am only speaking for myself and (maybe/probably) for my friends.
Regarding religion, I call myself a displaced Catholic. I won’t go into the whole sad story, but suffice to say that I learned through personal experience that as a woman, I had no voice, and if left up to them, I would be required to ignore my own conscience and have to live with the consequences. I chose to do what was right, despite the consequences and as a result, saved my children (but at great personal cost.) I have never lost my Faith, which is the only thing that sustained me through some really brutal years. My Faith is what shapes how I view my personal responsibility to my God, my neighbors and my Country. I don’t believe you have to go to church to be a Believer, although it would be lovely to find one that actually was informed by the Holy Spirit instead of men/women seeking power over one another. Finally, my Faith demands that I am proactively feeding the hungry, comforting the broken-hearted, actively living out my Faith.
My Faith demands that I do NOT place myself above others, and that we are ALL equal before God. Race, wealth, status, education, location, gender- NONE of that matters before God. All of us are injured by injustice because we are all of one cloth. Yes, I am mightily indignant at what I see as the glorification of money and power, when my Faith tells me that all of that means nothing before God. Maybe this is unique to me or maybe it’s because of the Franciscan nuns that were part of the Pacific NW Catholic community when I was a child. I don’t know. However, I do know that God calls each of us according to the best plan for each person’s life and it is NOT my job to be telling other people how to worship, etc. So yes, in that regard I think we need to mind our own business and leave everyone else alone. We are not God, although I see a lot of “Christian preachers” out there acting like they are one. Ugh.
Most of my friends are atheists/agnostic after having similar traumatic experiences with supposedly Christian churches.
About education, yes, I am aware that there is a pecking order for colleges, but I/we mostly ignore that because in the end, all that matters is how to support oneself with the tools each of us has. Worrying about some other person’s degree seems pointless and I don’t know anyone who is especially impressed with fancy degrees. Heck, I have an ex-brother-in-law who went to MIT on a scholarship and due to his own personal problems, ended up not even using his fancy degree. So whatever.
However, when it comes to people actually being competent, I want a doctor who went to medical school, an engineer who actually know engineering to design the planes I fly in, a teacher teaching my kids who went to college, etc. I certainly don’t glorify degrees (because in many cases they are more a reflection of someone’s opportunities, rather than superior abilities), but I also recognize the need for competence and really do not understand this animosity toward education. When I see a doctor, I LIKE science and prefer that over healing crystals if I have cancer, for example.
Which leads me to my final point (yes, I know you are probably wondering if I am ever going to shut up. LOL) Hollywood. I don’t know a single person who places Hollywood in high regard. It’s a fantasy manufacturer. How/why would anyone take them seriously? In many ways, Hollywood is like many/most politicians in that they make all sorts of promises but can’t actually deliver anything that is real. I understand a lot of people in Hollywood consider themselves Liberals, but they certainly do not define the group as a whole. In fact, most Liberals/Progressives I know do not in any way identify with Hollywood personalities and generally view them with skepticism. After all, they are just people and have all of the same problems, etc, as anyone else (and often more.)
Yes, I am guilty of loving NPR and the NYT, but I and my friends are absolutely horrified at disrespect directed toward any group of people. I am going to admit that after having lived in the South for a few years (now back home in the Pac NW), yes, I threw shade at the South. (Yes, feel free to be angry, but note I admitted my fault.) After all, I had never been exposed to such blatant racism and misogyny in my life. I’m not saying people aren’t racist on the Left Coast, but the sheer amount of it in Dallas was staggering….and from people who were “nice”! Actually, it was that 6 year stint in Dallas that opened my eyes to racism/patriarchy/misogyny/blatant discrimination against any one, and I mean ANYONE who wasn’t rich, white and male. Living there helped me discover hidden prejudices/how I was being a thoughtless idiot without realizing it before. No, I am not perfect, but then who is? I am TRYING however, and want to do better as a human being.
I haven’t done an exhaustive survey of all the Liberals I know, but I felt like I needed to respond because I have heard this same list from other conservative places and am curious who is generating this list of what Liberals reportedly believe and support. Since there has been SO much misinformation during this election cycle, part of me wonders if it isn’t a carefully cultivated list designed to divide Americans from one another. Overall, when I talk to people from ALL places on the political spectrum, we have more in common than we are different. Maybe we need to ask each other more questions and listen to understand, instead of assuming we already know what they are about. I am trying hard to listen and hope to extend the dialogue.
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Regarding religion, I call myself a displaced Catholic.
That’s your first problem. If you went to church every day and six times on Sunday, you wouldn’t have any problems.
Overall, when I talk to people from ALL places on the political spectrum, we have more in common than we are different.
Yes, you are all white!
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Huh? Are you agreeing or disagreeing?
Please do not assume I only talk to white people or people who think, look, act like me. That would be inaccurate. Second, what do YOU want? How is that different?
I notice you didn’t ask me what I wanted, so I’ll tell you. I want a society that puts the welfare of its people above that of the 1% wealthy or corporations or the powerful.
I want safety, a roof over my head, food, basic utilities and I want that for every one. Every single person, no exceptions.
I want the chance to make a living and support myself without regard to my gender or age or weight. And I want that for every one. No Exceptions.
I want decent affordable healthcare and a decent education for myself and my family. AND I want that for every one. NO exceptions.
I want to know that when my adult son leaves the house, that he isn’t going to be assaulted by some power-hungry cop and that my kid gets home in one piece….and I think every single mother wants that as well and we should ALL have that. Every. Single. Time. No. Exceptions. (And yes, he’s been harassed and yes, I called in and complained and nothing came of it.)
I think it’s an appalling indictment of our society that we put the wants of a few over the needs of the many, that we have so much wealth (concentrated in the hands of a few) and yet we have people sleeping on the streets. wtf?
So what do YOU want and how is it different from my list? What do I need to know about your life and priorities? Does my experience and opinion only count if I have been marginalized, because if that’s what you are needing to hear me, then sit back because I have a list that will make you weep. In short, please set aside your assumptions and talk to me.
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wrong on many levels, this sounds like a white person who tries to define a Black person….but the opposite. What you are talking about is learned racism and this exist in all white people especially in America but to equate liberals with so much crap is wrong. We may be a slave to the system but that does not mean we want to be or that we believe in it. We want change and we really don’t care what color someones skin is moving forward, I don’t care who leads us and I don’t have any desire to see whites at the top of any list, as I have always said, I am not white, I am human. Using skin color during our discussions is for reference only but not what is in my heart….
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Yes. I always thought Europeans fled because of religious persecution and wanting freedom FROM a state-imposed religion. Mike Pence is very scary because he will install a state religion, HIS religion. Gah. Actually, if Pence and his cabal were honest, I think what they *really* worship is Money and Power. Maybe they need to change their party slogan to a Golden Calf?
And yes, to the comment on consumerism. I work in the financial services industry and have told my boss that there are days my job makes me despair for/hate humanity. (He agreed.) I keep looking around and thinking our current system of allocating resources SUCKS and we need a better, more equitable Path. Still thinking hard about this one, but am encouraged to see others around the world are thinking the same thing. These are just random thoughts. Feedback welcome.
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Let the games begin. The truth will out!
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I think Abagond is describing a certain type of liberal. For example, this profile fits many (not all — yes, I think I better say that) non-profit executives I’ve worked with to a T. While their organizations mainly serve people of color (I live in a major “urban” city) it does not take long to realize that their love of those people is non-existent. In fact, what they seem to feel is more like contempt, and Abagond is 100% correct that paternalism is rampant.
One major deviation — these individuals may claim to be Christians, etc., but their behavior and their theology suggests otherwise. They might worship material success, but mostly they worship their own intellect, drive, and abilities.
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Crystal, thank you for the feedback. That must have been awful for you. I have mostly worked in for-profit places where these types of executives (and others) are rampant and so full of pride and so little humanity. I can barely restrain myself from lashing out, so I can only imagine how you must have felt. Argh.
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another troll piece by abagond, representative of the black stormfront.
i think he’s realised that, after 10+ years running a failing blog, the only articles that will get him more than 5 likes are those that are racist.
abagond is actually just a white guy intent on making black people look bad by writing incoherent drivel all day long.
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After 15 years of learning english I still can’t wrap my head around “liberal” meaning the opposite of classical liberal.
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The only difference between white liberals and white conservatives are that white liberals try to hide their racism, and are slightly better at hiding it. White conservatives really don’t care about concealing their racism, and will expose it. But no matter what side they’re on, they think their view is the only view that counts.
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apportune,
Okay, I’ll bite. How is any of this untrue?
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he knows tht identity politics are corrosive and futile. destined to divide rather than unite. and why would he seek to divide?
why would he run a barely-read blog for 10+ years if he did not have ulterior motives? because he’s a white man. presumably with the government. this blog is a purposefully incendiary honey trap for black supremacists.
so that they can more easily be monitored by the govt. anyone commenting immediately gives up:
1.email address
2.ip address
3.metadata (device used, browser used etc.)
that is sufficient for the govt to know exactly who is contributing, brothawolf.
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In the post I changed “Band Aid capitalists” to “Centre-left Band-Aid capitalists”.to make it a bit clearer.
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@ apportune
If that was my game (sowing division, providing information for the government), this blog would be way more click-baity, hyperbolic and screeching, more like a Black Breitbart or Rush Limbaugh. Maybe to you I seem like a hard-core Black nationalist or a Black Stormfront, but I am far from that.
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@ Kartoffel
As Scribh noted, “liberal” has different meanings in different parts of the English-speaking world.
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@ Abagond
Of course I know that. I just can’t emotionally reconcile myself with it.
On a different issue: Do I understand correctly, that the way you use “band aid capitalism” implies you see capitalism/a free market ecomomy as something inherintly bad?
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@ Kartoffel
As economic systems go, capitalism is one of the most destructive and dehumanizing. “Free market solutions” led to hundreds of years of slavery and now global warming. Not a fan. But if you believe in consumerism, then sure, it is the best ever!
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“Many Whitewashed people of colour believe the same things.”
sounds pretty screechy breitbart-like to me. you sound like the kid in the playground who laughed at another black kid because that kid chose to study rather than sling rocks.
probably explains why you don’t like obama either… because he’s an intelligent guy with a harvard degree?
a guy who did his best in government despite the complete and constant opposition of the republican party?
no president has ever faced opposition from the legislature like obama did. it’s surprising he achieved anything at all. and that opposition was a conservative one. not liberal.
obama has done more for black people than you ever will with this mish-mash of a blog.
at least black kids can now aspire to emulate the first black president of the United States, rather than call other black people ‘whitewashed’ because they have ‘liberal’ values.
invertebrate pot-bellied armchair critic.
and as kartoffel pointed out, you don’t even know what ‘liberal’ means.
in other words, the lack of coherence in your posts is so utterly mind-jarring that i can only conclude that you know exactly what you’re doing.
which is why i’m calling your BS. you’re white.
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“As economic systems go, capitalism is one of the most destructive and dehumanizing.”
sure. and deng xiaoping’s liberalisation of the chinese economy didn’t lift hundreds and hundreds of millions out of poverty.
and mao zedong’s collectivised communist policies didn’t lead to the deaths of 40+ million people.
and i suppose you have a magical alternative economic system that will heal the world of its ailments?
you’re incoherent.
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@…
“An Scríbhneor Gael-Mheiriceánach”
care to tell me how you pronounce that? or are you more intent on letting the world know that you are Irish, even at the cost of pronunciation?
phoneticism serves a function. you’re inability to recognise such a simple fact leads to me to conclude that any discussion with you would be futile.
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@ Kathryn
This post is just my opinion, though the map and the numbers are sourced. I am talking only in general. All of it will not apply to every single White Liberal. Hardly. It is impressionistic, pointing out what I regard as family characteristics, so to speak.
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“care to tell me how you pronounce that? ” I’m going to presume LOM has been patiently waiting for somebody to ask him. lol
It seems terms like “capitalism” and “socialism” can mean different things based on how you view the world.
The “free market” doesn’t exist within either captalsim or socialism.
The free market didn’t cause global warming rather reliance on carbon products like oil and coal did. If the world over the last fifty years was largely communist instead of captilist we still would have global warming.
Katherine up thread seems to think capitalism causes homelessness. What causes homelessness is the failing of humanity within society. White citizens would rather pass a law or write a check to a foundation rather then personally feed people or come up with long term solutions.
The “Band aid capitalism” of white liberals is more like band aid socialism since it is alluding to wealth redistribution to “take the hard edges off of capitalsim.”
What is “destructive and dehumanizing” is the State, not the particular economic system differnt states have chosen to operate under.
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you sound like the kid in the playground who laughed at another black kid because that kid chose to study rather than sling rocks.
You sound like a white supremacist POS who typifies everything in this post. Is that by design?
in other words, the lack of coherence in your posts is so utterly mind-jarring that i can only conclude that you know exactly what you’re doing.
which is why i’m calling your BS. you’re white.
Okay, Billary! P.S., Billary, there are plenty on this blog who would protest your characterization of this blogger being anti-Obama. Had you read more of the blog you would have realized this. White ‘liberals’ keep em coming! Sorry for your loss Billary!
you’re incoherent.
LOL, looks like you got the ‘liberal’ version of xprae on your hands! Maybe xprae has had a change of heart and political persuasion? If he/she goes off on long-winded tangents we’ll know! Carry on.
phoneticism serves a function. you’re inability to recognise such a simple fact leads to me to conclude that any discussion with you would be futile.
Hilarious!!! Keep the jocularity coming! This is too funny!
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@ Scribh
I would not count Bill Clinton as a White Liberal, but in the post I put “arguably” because some do.
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@ Scribh
Strictly speaking, Sanders is a socialist, not a liberal.
No doubt some White Liberals put equality above materialism, but so far as I can tell it is not a common belief.
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@ William the Conqueror
Some of the listed beliefs they share with others, but the constellation is theirs, as far as I can tell.
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@Brothawolf
“white liberals try to hide their racism, and are slightly better at hiding it.”
+1000. They are also better at dismissing anti-black racism by making it about class (like Bernie Sanders did when he was questioned about anti-black racism), and in the case of white female liberals (feminists), making it about gender.
@apportune
” or are you more intent on letting the world know that you are Irish”
+1000
What else do you expect from a white Irish supremacist?
@abagond
“this blog would be way more click-baity”
Well, you have admitted that this blog is “click-baity”.
“Maybe to you I seem like a hard-core Black nationalist or a Black Stormfront, but I am far from that.”
@apportune: Yes…FAR from it. He’s more like a Roland Martin. He doesn’t mind calling out the blatant racism, but only in a manner acceptable to white liberals.
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@abagond So many trolls showed up for a fight. Is this typical? Not blaming; curious.
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@kathryn
And what are you if not a troll? When was the last time you’ve commented on a post on this blog that wasn’t about you white liberals (because you got your feelings hurt)?
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My feelings are NOT hurt. I am shocked at how many accusations are being thrown around like grenades and how little attempts are being made at understanding one another. And yes, you are ONE of the trolls I am referring to. I have no idea your skin color and don’t care. THAT is not the issue. Problems don’t get solved by flamethrowers. They get solved by listening to understand and then looking for solutions. If flamethrowing is typical on this site, then I have better things to do.
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@ Abagond
I think a free market economy is the least destructive and dehumanizing. It simply follows out of personal freedom.
Of course it needs its limitations. It is pretty bad ad efficiently using free resources. Also the weaker actors have to be protected in some crucial areas. So you need strong labour, rentee, enviroment protection anti-trust and anti-fraud legislation.
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@Herneith
“You sound like a white supremacist POS who typifies everything in this post. Is that by design?”
white supremacist =/= white liberal
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@kathryn
One who just popped yesterday to express her white liberal hurt feelings fits the definition of a troll much more than someone who’s been commenting on this blog for many years. That you don’t like what someone else has to say does not make that person a troll.
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@resw
“express her white liberal hurt feelings”
i’ve been pretty inflammatory.
she hasn’t been. she’s written a lot of ‘nice girl’ stuff that, i admit, i didn’t bother to read.
in other words, stop picking on people just because their white and weak. tht’s predatory behaviour.
come at me instead. 😀
(btw, you are clearly racist towards white people. i think you should get those feelings checked out, maybe see a therapist)
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@ Kathryn
Yes, sometimes the jackals descend on my blog, especially if I question their dearly held beliefs, like scientific racism or the goodness of Trump.
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@apportune
She came at me first, btw. So get your facts straight. And yes, I will respond to attacks appropriately.
“btw, you are clearly racist towards white people”
Then it should be easy for you to quote something racist I said about white people. I’ll wait.
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@brothawolf
“The only difference between white liberals and white conservatives are that white liberals try to hide their racism, and are slightly better at hiding it. ”
so, according to you, all white people are racist?
Damn, what are we to do? should we just get rid of all white people?
we cannot have peace with so many racist white people. we really must solve this white problem.
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@resw
“to express her white liberal hurt feelings ”
that’s a racist statement. you are racialising her opinion. you’re telling her that her opinion has no merit because she is white.
you’re being racist.
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@apportune
“you are racialising her opinion.”
LOL. No, again you need to get your facts straight. She racialised her own feelings. She said “I am white and a Liberal ” FIRST. Then gave a spiel why she didn’t agree with abagond’s post on white liberals.
“you’re telling her that her opinion has no merit because she is white.”
And you’re making things up because of course that never happened.
So why don’t you learn to stick to the facts.
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@resw
“her white liberal hurt feelings”
you used ‘white’ as a disparaging adjective to characterise her statement. thereby suggesting that her race had relevance, and a negative one at that.
racist.
but it’s okay, i won’t tell anyone 😉
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@apportune
“you used ‘white’ as a disparaging ”
LOL! I had no “white” was “disparaging.” That must be why so many whites and non-whites are quick to label themselves as “white”.
Unfortunately for your argument, “White” and “Liberal”, are the same words Kathryn used to describe herself and her feelings.
“thereby suggesting that her race had relevance”
She made it clear her race had relevance by beginning her LONG spiel by saying “I am White and a Liberal”.
Your desperate attempt to prove racism has failed.
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*I had no IDEA “white” was “disparaging.” (Alert the media!)
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“One who just popped yesterday to express her white liberal hurt feelings ”
you described her feelings as being white. why would that be important?
do you understand the distinction i am making? how can feelings be white? they are feelings.
you described her feelings as white – even though having white feelings is clearly impossible! – because you wanted to draw attention to her skin colour.
lastly, was your sentence expressed in a positive, neutral, or negative manner?
three choices, which gets selected… you decide!!! 😀
basically, everyone reading this blog will get the thorough impression that you don’t care about the feelings of white people.
which is racist. Someone’s race should not be relevant to whether you care about their feelings or not.
i find it very bizarre that i have to explain this.
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@apportune
“you described her feelings as being white. why would that be important? ”
Kathryn first described herself as being “white” and “Liberal” before she expressed her feelings. So you’ll have to ask her why that was important. I don’t know what goes on in her mind.
“basically, everyone reading this blog will get the thorough impression that you don’t care about the feelings of white people”
You don’t speak for “everyone”. And the “impression” you got does not prove a thing.
“Someone’s race should not be relevant to whether you care about their feelings or not”
I don’t recall saying whether or not I cared about her feelings. Stick to the facts instead of fabricating.
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Apportune
If you have something to say relevant to the article, then say it, but don’t come in here accusing people of being a troll while being trollish yourself. Second of all, your point that this blog has lasted 10 yrs, when the average blog is up and out within the first year is fantastic proof of this blogs success. This blog has been extremely helpful in regards to my life, my journey to grow intellectually and spiritually as I strive to better understand people and maybe do my small part to help our nation to move forwards and shed our racist, cruel, money worshiping white supremacist society. Passionate, raw and unbridled but respectful debate and exchanging of ideas and experiences has proven time and time again to be the best way for people and/or groups to come together and learn to respect and understand differences.
The Abagond Blog has been a true Godsend to myself, a place where I can come and speak my mind, share my sometimes very personal experiences and more important ask questions about my behavior or my words that may be offensive to others. You know, like any peaceful civilized human being would strive towards.
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Abagond
Thank you my friend for responding, I guess you could tell I was a bit miffed as I consider myself Liberal. However I realized after some reflecting on your words that many of these people you speak of I have never had experiences with and they very well could exist. This is when I thought about the Clintons and other elite Liberals who I have heard many negative things about but have done my best to remain in denial about them because of my fondness of them.
I am not as offended as I was initially and am seeing how these divisions of Liberals can exist among even the best of movements. My experience with white Liberals, such as myself, has been remarkably positive as I realized that I am not the only white guy on the planet that isn’t a full blooded cold hearted racist SOB. I learned that there are many people out there with white skin that think just like me, I had little hope 20 yrs ago but finding Liberals gave me hope that pale skin people are not inherently evil. Then again the white Liberals I relate with are working class people, educated, teachers, small business owners, authors, involved in the arts, etc….I have on occasion come across a Liberal that struck me as off a little in terms of what I consider being Liberal.
Being Liberal is a spiritual thing to me, it can’t be interchanged with other ideas or attitudes. It has one constant, LOVE. Love for people, love for the living creatures that inhabit this Earth with us, respect, equality and so on but it always has one mantra; PEOPLE ALWAYS COME FIRST. Morality, ethics and doing the right thing must be entwined in each decision and piece of legislation. Protecting the planet for our children and for ourselves.
Using skin color and race is only necessary to fight bigotry and prove points but it means nothing to us or me, each person is judged by their heart and their actions. I have learned about learned racism here on your blog several years ago and even though I have been offended by racism my entire adult life I didn’t realize I had learned racist behavior myself that I needed to work on and I think I have recognized some of my cultural racism but realize it is embedded deep in my psyche and must be vigilante to continue to erase it and maybe, just maybe I can pass a little of what I have learned along to someone else or the younger generation.
I am extremely proud of my Nephew Abagond, he always points out when his father or my parents say something racist, I have much hope for the upcoming generation. My generation will hopefully be the last that have so many racist they can influence elections.
Thanks my friend
Crystal Spraggins
Thank you my dear, you also helped me feel less offended with your words as well. It was your comment that helped me take a step back and pull away from my emotional response. thank you.
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@lord of mirkwood
I actually don’t give a damn how your new alias is pronounced.
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‘Yeah, you’re resw.”
yeah, and mirkwood is a necrophile
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@WilliamTheConqueror.
didn’t read.
also, silly name. unoriginal.
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@resw
i’ll condense. I’m basically saying that you’re misusing words in order to draw attention to her race. As if it was of utmost importance. You know, and I know, – and yes everyone knows – (on the assumption that everyone reading knows how to… read?) that feelings do not have a “colour”.
You described her feelings as being white which is…
(let me demonstrate the correct use of an adjective)
nonsensical?
nah. I prefer the term:
racist.
🙂
But you put up a good fight. I’m warming to you.
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Broth wolf
I can’t tell you how absolutely wrong your statement is. First of all white conservatives never talk about their racism unless you make them mad enough that they expose it. Second of all I can speak from experience that most white liberals have no racist views only racist behaviors learned over a lifetime of living in a white supremacist culture and system.
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William the Conqueror,
White conservatives seem to be mad at many things that go against their ideals of how things should be. Those on the right were angry that a black male Democrat was elected in the highest office in the land. To many of them, they were mad that he was black and a Democrat. So, they came up with all kinds of excuses to hate him, mostly not remotely rooted in truth, facts or reality.
But all in all, they seem to be the most angry at the most mundane and harmless things. You don’t have to provoke them. You can just ‘exist’. That’s reason enough for them, especially on the far right, to hate you.
Meanwhile, white liberals believed that progress was accelerated when Barack Obama took office. Some even thought that racism magically disappeared. And I can tell you from my experience, that some have racist views and behaviors. They still think lowly of black people in some way. But they hide it well until they slip up. That’s when their racist behaviors come out.
apportune,
Did I say that all white people are racist? Even if I did, you can’t live in a racist nation and not be racist in some way yourself.
And no where did I say that we need to get rid of white people. You’re just putting words into my keyword. By the way, you still haven’t explained how this piece is untrue.
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@apportune
“I’m basically saying that you’re misusing words in order to draw attention to her race”
She already drew attention to her race when she stated “I am white” before stating her argument. Your problem is with her.
“that feelings do not have a “colour””
And no one said they did, nor did anyone say anything about “white feelings”
And if her feelings were not “white liberal”, as I actually said, then she should not have said “I am white and a Liberal” before expressing her feelings.
“I prefer the term: racist. ”
I’m sure you are.
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“Second of all I can speak from experience that most white liberals have no racist views only racist behaviors learned over a lifetime of living in a white supremacist culture and system.”
You can’t seperate.the two. Who do you think is first to call the police when they spot a Black man in their liberal white neighborhood ?
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@LOM
It is pretty obvious that the person is not resw. Stop trying so hard to make it so..
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Hi Sharinalr
and Fan…..
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
The reason why (white) liberals need a front/ face/ facade is that they are the biggest beneficiaries of crimes against humanity: chattel slavery, extermination of indigenous peoples, colonialism, the never-ending rape of Africa and wars against ‘brown’ and Asian people.
After investigation, you will find that it is these white people- Jews, Christians, atheists, etc. who ‘love’ Black people so much, who are the worst oppressors.
They are the ones who supplied the Klan with hoods and nooses. They own/ed and distribute/d ‘firewater’ to the Natives in all the colonies. They were the ones who owned the most slaves.
They are the doyens in academia who bully Black historians in rewriting their prominent role in the Transatlantic Slave Trade
They are the ones who have cultivated the Black criminal/boogeyman stereotype in South Africa and in the US.
(And ten to one it is the liberal, when you are reading ‘Ulysses’ in a cafe, who enters your zone to tell you how educated you are.)
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I met a white liberal once.
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When you were an infant?
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I note this seems to suggest “white liberalism” is actually “bad” or a problem. But clearly white conservatism is no better, given what it got into the White House (heh) now.
So with both of those gone, what is the answer and not the problem? Is it “Black liberalism”? Some other form of liberalism? Is it some view outside the entire left/right dichotomy/continuum/axis altogether? If so, what?
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”White Liberals…are those White people in the US who believe in capitalism (aka rich people, aka the 1%, aka big business and big banks, aka donors)….”
According to an article by Bruce Dixon in Black Agenda Report, the donor sector of White Liberals have already bought out the Movement for Black Lives (M4BL). The Ford Foundation and Anonymous Donors have pledged $100 million to “philanthropic and field-building activities that strengthen the next generation of social justice leaders. Specifically, the collaborative effort supports the infrastructure, innovation and dynamism of intersectional Black-led organizing…”.
Grantees include:
Black Lives Matter
Blackbird
BlackYouth Project 100
BlackOUT Collective
BOLD Organizing
Million Hoodies Movement for Justice
Organization for Black Struggle
Project South
Dixon points out likely outcomes to these transactions:
http://www.blackagendareport.com/who-owns-the-movement%3F/
Making these organizations and others wholly owned subsidiaries of the White Liberal donor class may smooth a few “rough edges” for the grantees, but I doubt it will slow the rates at which Black people are gunned down in the streets and in their homes by agents of the State. For the rest of Black America, the “rough edges” remain very rough indeed.
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“The reason why (white) liberals need a front/ face/ facade is that they are the biggest beneficiaries of crimes against humanity: chattel slavery, extermination of indigenous peoples, colonialism, the never-ending rape of Africa and wars against ‘brown’ and Asian people.
After investigation, you will find that it is these white people- Jews, Christians, atheists, etc. who ‘love’ Black people so much, who are the worst oppressors.
They are the ones who supplied the Klan with hoods and nooses. They own/ed and distribute/d ‘firewater’ to the Natives in all the colonies. They were the ones who owned the most slaves.”
absolute rubbish based on no factual evidence whatsoever. you have no primary sources for any of what you claim. in other words, you are spreading lies, deceit and propaganda.
and as such, you are an individual with a deceitful and twisted soul.
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And here I am wondering why apportune bothers to waste his efforts on “exposing” the “deceitful and twisted” proprietor of a “dying” blog.
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@Afrofem:
Malignancy and deceitfulness at its’ best!
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@apportune
The only deceitful and twisted soul in here is you. You not once, but twice so far has twisted what individuals said and I have no doubt you have no clear understanding of what Taotesan. Do research and you will know the truth too. All that she mentioned benefited white people and guess who is white? White Liberals.
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@Taotesan
Very well said. They are the ones who give other groups the false sense of hope and progression to support their agendas.
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They are the ones who give other groups the false sense of hope and progression to support their agendas.
More insidious!
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@Herneith
I wondered just how long it would take the BLM types to be bought out. Not long it seems. Oh well, back to the drawing board….
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The problem with apportune’ theory is that 1. The authorities (including the govt) have easier ways to place you 2. Black supremacists are a useless bunch, too busy playing with themselves on YouTube and 3. Abagond isn’t a Hotep attractor,or a failed blog (he’s at the top of many Google sesrches).
Guess someone needs to get themselves back to that Assays site, or wherever.
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I have some examples of racism that happened recently.
I have a friend who lives in La Cañada which is a rich liberal city in the foothills of Los Angeles. He has a back house and was looking for a tenant so I referred him to a former neighbors daughter. Her dad is a Black police officer. She has a boy friend who stays there part time and was followed home for driving while Black in a mostly white neighborhood. My friend Robert looks out his window and sees him in the prone position in his front yard with the sheriffs guns out. He goes out, there is a helicopter overhead, and he is like what are doing ? It took him 15 minutes to convince the police that the gentleman in the prone position in his front yard wasn’t a criminal.
I also have a Black worker who went to school with my son Josh who is an employee of mine. We were doing a commercial job trimming parking lot trees and some unemployed white guy asks my son why we were employing N***. My son was shocked and told him to F*** O**. He told me about it and I told him not to mention it to his friend. I don’t know if we should have told him about the racism or not.
We live in a hillside home where there is not a lot of parking. We were having some work done so the my boy and his Black friend parked down the hill and we’re walking up to my house. I was leaving and I see a neighbor who I had never met before coming up to them and asking what their business was. I asked the neighbor if he did that every time he saw a Black man walking up the street. “Oh no this was nothing about race it’s just that we have had burglaries in the neighborhood.” SMH.
So in densely blue states racism is alive and well.
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“So in densely blue states racism is alive and well.”
Nice of you to establish or strengthen THAT with recent evidence or facts…. in case we lose our collective cognitive processes, forget and mindlessly wander into some all white enclave trap full of pesky self-righteous liberal imbeciles. lol 😀
What sort of Amerika might exist today if the racist Sun-Down-Towns phenomenon hadn’t materialized across the entire country??
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“you are an individual with a deceitful and twisted soul” ..
That is called projection.
White people have been masters at that ever since their invasion and theft of whole continents.
But you are doing very well , carry on. Much, much worse things have been said to me and about since I was child. You can have lessons from mirkwood, the racist with the new unpronounceable name. His lackeys call him Scrib, the blogs resident’s irish white supremacist who is also a necrophile. You two can hold hands.
“absolute rubbish based on no factual evidence whatsoever.”
It is weekend and the sun is shining here in South Africa.
So I will substantiate, with historical and contemporary back-up what your people have done tomorrow night and Tuesday after training.
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“what your people”
huh?
“White people have been masters at that ever since their invasion and theft of whole continents.”
you have fantasies of absolute power. and are attributing them to your supposed persecutor. you’re paranoid and self-delusional.
“much worse things have been said to me and about since I was child.”
would you like a tissue for your tears?
a weeping black supremacist. how poetic.
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notice that you have a tendency to attribute absolute powers to your supposed persecutors. you did the same with obama. there’s a trend here. maybe you’re a masochist as well as being paranoid and delusional.
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@MJB
” It took him 15 minutes to convince the police that the gentleman in the prone position in his front yard wasn’t a criminal. ”
word
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you can troll some one else. over and out
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@taotesan
would love to hear your response. keep in mind evidence does not suffice against religious beliefs.
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@ nomad
I don’t have much time to blog. I have been a very inconsistent blogger,
so I will say to Fan… resw, and to you nomad , that i have thoroughly enjoyed and am hugely informed by your critiques and your takes on the structure of US power and politics on the various threads.
So with this apportune , i do not have too much time and inclination to to and fro.
As to the response about the ‘liberal’ arm of chattel slavery and the bullying of Black historians and African American leaders , the Hollywoodizing? of slavery to lay all the blame on gentile whites, formation of disparate groups , eg. the NAACP and Klu Klux Klan,( and ANC ) a precis of Jewish prominence in the genocide of Native Americans, since most of the sites that I have followed have been shut down, bar one if still exists, as are most of the you tube videos and websites pertaining to the Jewish Slave Trade of Africans in the Americas. I will attempt a few essays on the the appropriate threads. Should be Wednesday latest .
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the necro philiac judeophile, calling out Jewish enslavement of Africans is not anti-semitic it is exposing jewish crimes against humanity. One can hurl out anti-semitic as a scarlet letter and as an ad hominum, it won ‘t take away from the established albeit hidden historical facts that Jews were the major slave- owners, traders, etc and the biggest beneficiaries. of African enslavement and oppression in the Americas
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@apportune
I think you might actually suffer from a delusional disorder or maybe something simple like…reading comprehension. Or could it be a poor effort at assuming? At any rate nothing you said refutes what taotesan said and what she said is backed by history and even examples of today.
So what are you going to make up next? I hope it is interesting.
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@LOM
I will leave this here, but you might want to read a little deeper on Jewish involvement.
http://forward.com/opinion/179441/jews-mostly-supported-slavery-or-kept-silent-d/
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Pointing out and criticizing the genocidal apartheid and illegal occupation of Palestine by Jewish settlers is not anti- semitic, It is a common sense and humane response to the complete and unimaginable terror and gross human rights that Palestinians must endure in their native lands.
Pointing out the historical fact that after the Boer War, funded by the Sassoon family, who gained their immense wealth through the opium wars in India and China and that not only Afrikaner settlers/ invaders but thousands of Africans also perished in concentration camps.
Who got all the gold and diamonds then on the southern tip of Africa? Jews. Fact, not anti-semitism.
Who got all the diamonds in Namibia after the genocide of the Herero and Nama people whom Vom Trotha was manipulated into? Oppenheimer, a Jew. Fact.
Who is responsible for 9/11? Definitely, not any Iraqis, but Jews. Fact.
This is but a tip of the ice-berg. Do independent research.
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@taotesan
“Pointing out the historical fact that after the Boer War, funded by the Sassoon family, who gained their immense wealth through the opium wars in India and China and that not only Afrikaner settlers/ invaders but thousands of Africans also perished in concentration camps.”
crimes against humanity have been driven by greed and lust for wealth.
that greed and lust for wealth is something that has inhabited countless humans, regardless of race.
where your narrative fails is:
1.you try to attribute crimes to the offspring and, as we all know, ‘the son is not responsible for the crimes of the father’
2.you attribute crimes to entire groups.
if jewish people committed crimes against humanity, it was not Because they were jewish.
they just Happened to be jewish. a human doing evil is irrespective of that human’s race.
a human doing evil is irrespective of that human’s race/ethnicity/religion.
one more time:
a human doing evil is irrespective of that human’s race/ethnicity/religion.
that is why this blog is an utter failure.
that is why you black supremacists, white supremacists and every other type of racial supremacists will Never Ever be taken seriously.
you cannot attribute crimes to an entire racial/ethnic/religious group. it is illogical, it is impractical but most importantly, it is impossible.
it is funny though how black supremacists and white supremacists Love having a racialised narrative of history.
Human history is defined by the greed to acquire resources.
not race.
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@apportune
You tried but still missed the mark. So sad.
“crimes against humanity have been driven by greed and lust for wealth.”—That still fails to refute the fact that those actions Taotesan stated happened to those groups.
Where your narrative fails:
1. She did not try to attribute crimes to the offspring. She stated they benefited from those crimes and the truth is they did. Do you know the meaning of benefit? The son is responsible for his actions if he continues to uphold the crime of the father.
2. Nope. What was stated was white people and that statement did not indicate an all. So straw man alert.
As to your example it may not be because they were Jewish, but it doesn’t change that they were in fact Jewish. As to a racialised view of history, that is how history is. If you don’t like history then stop reading historic material. Civil rights was about race. Chattel slavery became about race. Jim crow was about race. Destruction of native Americans was about race.The list could go on.
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yes and those were bad things, or are you arguing they weren’t?
So you’re solution is to do the same thing?
taotesan’s racialised narrative is okay because other people had a racialised narrative?
taotesan’s silly racialised narrative, and the white supremacist narrative of slavery, jim crow laws etc. are precisely the things we are fighting against.
we need to acknowledge the fact that race/ethnicity/religion have been used to justify the appropriation of resources.
the end goal is the same: acquiring resources.
and people will do anything to justify it.
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@apportune
Well no where in my statements does it say it wasn’t bad.
“So you’re solution is to do the same thing?”—Pointing out a fact is not indicating that my solution is to do the same thing.
“taotesan’s racialised narrative is okay because other people had a racialised narrative?”—Her narrative is okay, but that is how history was.
“taotesan’s silly racialised narrative, and the white supremacist narrative of slavery, jim crow laws etc. are precisely the things we are fighting against.”—Wrong. People are fighting against white supremacy. Not history narratives. White supremacy is happening today. White supremacist are the only ones trying to claim it is about class and not about race in situations where it is clearly about race.
“we need to acknowledge the fact that race/ethnicity/religion have been used to justify the appropriation of resources.”—Not really. History shows that even with those justifications, it really comes down to the race of the individual they are attacking. For example, Christianity was pushed on all groups and even after following it racism was still present against said individuals.
“the end goal is the same: acquiring resources.”—Another false conclusion. Even after having taken native american land and resources, society today continues to marginalize them.
“and people will do anything to justify it.”—Races is not the justification. It is the reason. No white supremacist will even acknowledge race as a part of why they do it
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okay, because
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@ Scribh
Your horseshoe comment has been up since yesterday afternoon.
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“there was a computer error on my end.”
@Scrib aka lom
You have all sorts of grievous and unrecoverable ERRORS going on at your end that have hardly anything to do with computers. All of the covert name changes in cyberspace won’t let you hide or slither away from who you truly are and what you do.
In fact Beelzebub (or Baal) would be a more adequate name for you and your reputation – much better (and more honest!) than your present or former name designations.
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“Races is not the justification. It is the reason.”
really? really? name one historical example that i won’t be able to disprove with a resources-based argument.
the native american one? failed already. the united states does not want native americans to have their own land because they want it for themselves.
the recent saga over the pipeline being a case in point.
the problem is, most of the people on this blog know that i’m right but there seems to be a little clique mentality developing.
what is this silly ‘like’ game? is this facebook or something?
why don’t you likers actually come out with concrete arguments?
Sharina, taotesan and co, and their mindset, are precisely the problem. they attribute blame to ENTIRE groups.
taotesan blames a whole lot on jews for instance.
so if taotesan was in power, what would she do?
ban jews?
what is wrong with you people on this blog? have you drifted away from reality so far that you are willing to fight racism with…
more racism?
sharina, you are clearly racist.
what a dark, dark corner of the internet this is. bunch of social rejects that wouldn’t win votes with any electorate, anywhere. if this blog was correct in its narrative, would it not have more mainstream success?
looneys. you’re all just the same as donald trump.
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Update: Added a NOT ALL disclaimer.
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@apportune
“really? really? name one historical example that i won’t be able to disprove with a resources-based argument.”—If you were able to accomplish disproving anything with a resource-based argument you would have by now. The gist of your argument has been ad hominems, strawman, and appeal to emotion. The most common phrase has been “No true. You’re racist. You’re delusional. It’s about resources.” None of which debunks what Taotesan said.
“he native american one? failed already. the united states does not want native Americans to have their own land because they want it for themselves.”—This is unfortunate. You don’t know what marginalized means. However, the Native American argument is a long and extensive one. For example, after taking their land they still killed them, stripped them of their culture, and forced them to assimilate. All they do to natives is really after they already had stolen their resources, so no…it still is about race.
“he recent saga over the pipeline being a case in point.”—Keyword being recent and it was not because they wanted their resources so much as wanted to destroy their resources for their pipeline.
“the problem is, most of the people on this blog know that i’m right but there seems to be a little clique mentality developing.”—If they thought you were right they would have spoken up. These are not shy people in here.
“what is this silly ‘like’ game? is this facebook or something?”—Are you a like junkie? *shrugs*
“why don’t you likers actually come out with concrete arguments?”—Why repeat common knowledge? Plus many don’t even see you as worth it seeing as you haven’t come up with a “concrete” argument yourself.
“Sharina, taotesan and co, and their mindset, are precisely the problem. they attribute blame to ENTIRE groups.”—Do quote where I attributed blame to an entire group and you might have a case? Until then you are appealing to an audience, grand standing or whatever.
“taotesan blames a whole lot on jews for instance.”—Because Jews did engage in those activities she mentioned. She never said that she hated all of them or anything of the like, so you are creating an argument or platform she never made.
“sharina, you are clearly racist.”—Then I am sure you can quote something I said that is actually racist. In the mean time I don’t care. The word is the equivalent of “I don’t like that you said” toughen up buttercup.
“what a dark, dark corner of the internet this is. bunch of social rejects that wouldn’t win votes with any electorate, anywhere. if this blog was correct in its narrative, would it not have more mainstream success?”—I don’t like politicians and would never see myself as becoming one so…whatever. No blog is a mainstream success so try again.
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In fact Beelzebub (or Baal) would be a more adequate name for you and your reputation – much better (and more honest!) than your present or former name designations.
Please Fan, do not insult ol’ Beelzebub. I dated him and he was a perfect gentleman!
the problem is, most of the people on this blog know that i’m right but there seems to be a little clique mentality developing.
You’re right, now move on already!
why don’t you likers actually come out with concrete arguments?
I will as soon as I finish watching the paint dry.
Sharina, taotesan and co, and their mindset, are precisely the problem. they attribute blame to ENTIRE groups.
Personally, I blame it on bad liquor when it comes to myself, I can’t speak for the others. What were you posting about?
so if taotesan was in power, what would she do?
Hopefully she’d spread crazy glue on your fingers so you couldn’t type the nonsensical tripe that you do. But you’d probably use your toes!
what is wrong with you people on this blog? have you drifted away from reality so far that you are willing to fight racism with…
Liqer does that to you!
sharina, you are clearly racist.
Everyone needs a hobby!
what a dark, dark corner of the internet this is. bunch of social rejects that wouldn’t win votes with any electorate, anywhere. if this blog was correct in its narrative, would it not have more mainstream success?
Not necessarily because you wouldn’t have anywhere else to present your blatherings.
you’re all just the same as donald trump
Trump has nothing on us! Seriously why are your here? To pontificate to the stupid culluds? You are nothing but a white supremacist in sheep’s clothing. POS.
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@ Herneith
Who’s the most fun on a date, Beelzebub or Cthulhu?
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I think you hit a nerve here. Good post.
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Supposedly trump is a generalized dog whistle ie free reign for everyone to criticize everyone else. Lol his wife bailed out on him back to nyc. It’s just annoying.
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Who’s the most fun on a date, Beelzebub or Cthulhu?
Beelzebub hands down, he was horny all the time.
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“You are nothing but a white supremacist in sheep’s clothing. POS.”
hahaha, touch a nerve did i? because i don’t agree with taotesan’s anti-semitism i’m a white supremacist?
buahahahahahah.
taotesan, can you give me that tissue back? the tears are overflowing.
you’re lost my friend.
according to you:
Columbus set out to the New World not to acquire resources but to kill a race he didn’t even know existed yet!
racism is the justification, not the motivation…
none of you have disproved me yet. but of course, none of you are actually here to engage in coherent debate but to pour hatred on any racial group that isn’t yours!
because you’re all social rejects who have resorted to going online to find like-minded people because no one in the real world actually agrees with your looney views.
definition of illogical.
you do not know what you do not know.
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and what does POS mean?
Person of Sagesse?
Yes, you are quite right. 😀
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hahaha, touch a nerve did i?
Ah, no, unless you call a funny bone a ‘nerve’.
Any relations to no_slappz or xprae, their ‘liberal’ brother perhaps?
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other than your mother, i can’t think of anyone you know that i’ve shared an intimate relationship with.
…
BOOOOOOOOOOOM!!!
😀
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apportune
People don’t need to disprove you. History does. Your just spouting your opinionated idea that racism was the justification when that isn’t supported. Those white men did what they did based on the idea that those natives were inferior and deserved it.
Waiting on those resourcedays based argument…
Your post are the example of illogical.
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Resource*
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“People don’t need to disprove you. History does.”
cite an example then
it’s a well known psychological trick. humans rationalise the evil they do by thinking their victims deserve it.
those whites wanted the land and therefore rationalised it by telling themsleves that the natives were heathen, inferior, blabla.
again, racism is the rationalisation, not the motivation.
you think people crossed the atlantic just to kill savages? they put their lives at risk of scurvy and malnutrition just for the joy of killing?
nope, they did it because they were promised LAND!!!
and to take that land, they rationalised it through racism.
Sharina, you are so wrong on this, it is laughable.
racism is the justification, not the motivation.
i feel sad you know, i think you don’t like me. 😦
and that’s clouding your judgement.
why don’t you like me as much as herneith?
WHY DON’T YOU LIKE MY POSTS TOO SHARINA???
krkrkrkrkrkr
can someone else come at me? sharina’s not a worthy opponent. she’s petty.
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@ apportune
Ok, here are three for starters:
How was the murder of James Byrd about resources?
How is Zwarte Piet about resources?
How is Chief Wahoo about resources?
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@apportune
“cite an example then”—I already cited examples. You just keep ignoring them and making your own.
“those whites wanted the land and therefore rationalised it by telling themsleves that the natives were heathen, inferior, blabla.”—Except that was the rationalization after they already had the land. That is the part you cant seem to wrap you head around. Read it slowly….AFTER THEY HAD THE LAND.
“you think people crossed the atlantic just to kill savages? they put their lives at risk of scurvy and malnutrition just for the joy of killing?”—This is an example of one of many of your straw man arguments.
“nope, they did it because they were promised LAND!!!”—They weren’t promised land. Which makes your argument sad…
“Sharina, you are so wrong on this, it is laughable.”—Yet history proves me right.
“sharina’s not a worthy opponent.”—I know. You are use to your opponents being your imaginary friend. Must be hard to have to present an argument to real people and realize you lack the ability to keep up.
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@Solitaire
Add Jim Crow and Apartheid to the list.
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@Solitaire
still about resources. those three racist acts represent the manifestation of the belief that non-whites are inferior. the perpetrators think it is justifiable to do such acts because they do not view the victims as being equal. racism is achieved through the dehumanisation of the victim. which is necessary to justify the devastation of continents.
when white people marginalise non-white people, they do that to preserve the economic wealth of their wider network, and marginalise people that they do not consider part of the network. the debasement of other groups serves a purpose: maintaining the wealth of the group.
institutionalised racism is done to preserve interests of the dominant group.
which brings me to sharina. you see, sharina, you have to think things through for a longer period of time. think things through thoroughly. and go through each step. don’t just stop at the convenient step. go to the next one.
after you have taken a people’s land, how do you ensure they do not try to get their land back?
continued and institutionalised racism.
Black and native people are marginalised in america because it serves an economic purpose. historically, in america, when black people owned businesses, and if those businesses grew too successful, they were destroyed.
in order to preserve the economic interests (resources) of the dominant group.
if that cannot be achieved, then a new status quo, or equilibrium, is reached. which is part and parcel of game theory.
the history of humanity is defined by the struggle for resources. and that struggle never ends. individual humans work to earn money so they can pay bills. amalgamated humans form nations who then fight each other for resources so that they can then enrich themselves further.
ok, so they weren’t promised land. you win. why did they go then? to start a new life? to escape persecution? to escape a state of destitution so that they may reach a state of non-destitution? a state where they would be better off? wealthier?
…
with more resources?
sharina, a lot of people on this blog believe you to be of low intellect. i am one of them. you do not know what you are writing. i could argue against you for eternity and defeat you every time. i see where you are going wrong and read through each of your arguments like an open manuscript, written in braille, with an audio narrator, and with illustrated coloured pictures.
like a children’s comic book, with extra assistance for the hard of hearing, and the hard of sight, and the hard of thought.
like a book for sharina.
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@Sharina
you see what solitaire did? she actually read my argument, thought about it carefully, and then thought of clear counter arguments that, at first sight, do not appear-resource related.
whilst she may have forgotten to consider the economic benefits obtained by institutionalised racism, she nevertheless took the time to draw up solid counter-examples.
already, she is a worthier opponent than you are.
i hope that, one day, she may hold as much affection for me as she does for resw.
i hope that resw is not banned. really.
the development of their love affair is one of the things that has piqued my interest on this blog. it’s like a soap opera!
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@ apportune
“you see what solitaire did? she actually read my argument, thought about it carefully”
LOL. I skimmed your posts and thought for about three seconds. I’ve got my left hemisphere tied behind my cranium, son, and I can still best you in any fight.
“she may have forgotten to consider the economic benefits obtained by institutionalised racism”
If you’re going to play that game, you can reduce anything to fit your argument. You could also pick something else instead of resources, like religion, and play the exact same intellectual game.
Institutionalized racism creates other benefits besides economic ones, which is something you need to take into consideration.
But the real crux is that I wasn’t asking you to reduce things down to a vague “this racist act fits into the larger scheme which is based in economics.”
I want to know what was the specific economic resource-based reason that three white boys murdered James Byrd. What economic benefit did they receive from the direct act? What economic incentive caused them to commit the murder?
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well you can’t disprove it, can you?
i can disprove the religion one:
why would it be that, many religions, for centuries, get along just fine and then SUDDENLY…
it’s all out warfare?
Why?
WHYYYY???
SOMEONE TELL ME HOW COMETH?
it would not be resources now…
would it?
Solitaire… i-know-that-you-know-that-i-know-that-you-know-that-i-know-that-you-know….
wait, i lost myself.
anyway, you know i’m right.
but i understand, we must preserve the black-supremacist status quo on this blog.
sharina, despite her stunted reasoning skills, shall not be unseated from her role as abagond’s pet-poodle-in-chief!!!
i promise you.
really. 😀
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@apportune
Trust me I feel no type of way about you trying to butter up to solitaire and I feel no type of way about how you feel about me. How you feel about me or anyone else in here has no bearing on the reality that your argument still does not make racism the justification.
“think things through thoroughly. and go through each step. don’t just stop at the convenient step. go to the next one.”—Then you really need to think further through. Poor whites also aren’t part of their network. If the matter was simply resources then you would see the same level of marginalization placed on them that was placed on non-white people. You don’t.
“historically, in america, when black people owned businesses, and if those businesses grew too successful, they were destroyed.”—Yes, but that destruction was not based on resources as they had already amassed a large portion of resources. The destruction was centered on pure hatred and jealously of a race they considered inferior. IE racism. If history serves correctly there was a time where only blacks were frequenting those businesses. Whites had there own and did not care to frequent those of people they saw as less than.
The heart of what you are arguing is racism not resources.
“sharina, a lot of people on this blog believe you to be of low intellect.”—I don’t care what “a lot of people think” I don’t come to this blog for people’s appeasement. You do. I hope you enjoy your like from good ole LOM.
“i could argue against you for eternity and defeat you every time.”–You could try, but you might want to focus on defeating what I said now.
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because he was black?
and they were white supremacists?
and what do white supremacists believe?
appropriation of resources for white people.
if you kill all the black people, there won’t many left to stop you from taking what you want now will there?
would kind of help to explain why there aren’t many native americans left…
just a thought. maybe try to place that thought inside… your own thoughts?
come on solitaire. you’re letting the black-supremacist team down here.
(btw, you forgot a question mark. tut tut)
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@Sharina
no you wouldn’t. because they’re white. Sharina, please start making sense.
did you utter the word jealousy? jealousy of what? it wouldn’t be resources, would it?
Sharina, if i had offered you a gun, and commanded you to shoot yourself in the foot with it, you would have barked at me for the pure madness of the proposition.
but you have somehow managed to pull out your own golden-plated shotgun, carefully carved with your own initials, and promptly used it to blow your own foot off…
without any of my assistance.
Good lord, it was only a slight nudge, it didn’t mean to send you careering off onto your own path of utter self-destruction…!
really, i’m sorry.
krkrkrkrkrkr 😀
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Sharina, please start using blockquotes. your posts are hard to read.
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@apportune
“no you wouldn’t. because they’re white. Sharina, please start making sense.”—Already did. So sorry the point was missed.
” it wouldn’t be resources, would it?”–Nope.
“Sharina, if i had offered you a gun, and commanded you to shoot yourself in the foot with it, you would have barked at me for the pure madness of the proposition.”—No, I would sell the gun.
“it didn’t mean to send you careering off onto your own path of utter self-destruction…!”—Good thing that is only part of your imagination. Now back to reality.
“Sharina, please start using blockquotes. your posts are hard to read.”—Nope. I will do it the way I always have.
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@Sharina
Ok, thanks for agreeing i won. it was a pleasure defeating you.
let infinity commence! 😀
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@ Sharina
Seriously. Dude keeps yammering on and on about economics and resources, but then he gives you a gold-plated shotgun and thinks you’re going to shoot yourself instead of selling that baby?
Not exactly a prudent use of resources, is it? Perhaps he isn’t quite the economic genius he likes to think he is.
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@Solitaire
buahahahahahahahaha
i like this girl. she’s funny. sharina, be more like her.
look how she appreciates my vivid use of word play!
i’m melting. 🙂
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@Solitaire
ROFL!!! I know right.
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@apportune
“Ok, thanks for agreeing i won. it was a pleasure defeating you.”—Of course, but whenever you are ready to address the reality of the failing points in your argument. I am here for you and so is solitaire.
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@ apportune
So did they steal James Byrd’s wallet?
Did one of them get his old job?
Where was the direct economic motive for the murder?
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apportune vs herneith, taotesan, solitaire and sharina
girls…
you do know that judaism allows polygamy… right? 😀
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@ apportune
Dude. Sharina’s the one who said she would sell the gun. I’m just appeciating her wise use of resources.
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@Solitaire
surely there is no greater theft than the destruction of one’s life?
is murder not the prime instrument of resource competition?
perhaps you should be asking yourself… why does any human kill?
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@solitaire
ok, perhaps my marriage proposal was… a tad hasty?
😉
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@apportune
I don’t find interest in men with low iqs or bad sense of humor.
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@sharina
we are ideally suited then! but stay away from brothawolf…
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@apportune
“we are ideally suited then! but stay away from brothawolf”—Those fantasies again.
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@ apportune
“surely there is no greater theft than the destruction of one’s life?”
Ok, now you’re just stretching.
Did they get any economic benefit from the destruction of that life?
Except for three hots and a cot, that is.
——
Does Judaism allow me to marry multiple men? If so, I may have to convert…
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Solitaire
I am still waiting on him to get to that point. All his deflecting and he still has not managed to address it.
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@ Sharina
I rate him a 7/10. More playful than Jacques, but not nearly as amusing as Bobby M.
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Solitaire
I honestly forgot about Jacques, but Bobby M. Now he is one to remember.
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SOMEONE TELL ME HOW COMETH?
WHY NOTETH?
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Dash it: my first comment down the tubes!
In the meantime, bravo to the 5 star dragon slayer, Sharina.
And the inimitable Herneith.
Too exhausted (If any-one understands what Smolov 10×3 might mean) to rewrite comment again, later or tomorrow. Subsequent comments will not make sense without rewrite.
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@herneith @taotesan @sharina @solitaire
dear wives,
I am delighted that you’ve all rejoined the party.
but…
7/10? really???
that’s not what she was saying last night!!!
on a more serious note…
I’m a ten babyyy
on a more puerile note…
anyone who tries to use race to explain historical events is doomed to fail.
no one here has so far disproved this thesis.
the idea that historical events of major significance such as the fall of constantinople or the discovery of the new world were driven by racism and not the quest for resources is misguided.
but then of course, individuals like solitaire will use localised examples of racism to disprove this thesis.
james byrd was the victim of an ignoble racist slaughter, so it must be the case that the racial narrative is more appropriate than the economic narrative…
really?
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@ apportune
What do you think it will solve if the economic narrative surpasses the racial narrative? How will that help present-day efforts to increase racial equality and decrease racist injustices?
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@ apportune
Also, I want our next husband to look like Taye Diggs.
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@Solitaire
by not calling out racial groups and blaming them for everything…?
that would be something. calling out entire groups only serves to entrench divisions. divisions only serve the cause of institutionalised racism.
when abagond dismisses white liberals as simply pawns of white supremacists, what cause does that serve?
it only aids white supremacists. who can then say “look how blacks treat you, white liberals! why do you continue to fight their corner???”
oh, but of course, malcom X said there’s no such thing as a white ally…
so what chance do you stand, solitaire?
you are white therefore… by definition…
you are the enemy.
because black supremacists are racist. they are just as bad as white supremacists.
my intent is clear: to logically demonstrate what a stupid blog this is.
so far, it has proven easy.
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@apportune
“no one here has so far disproved this thesis.”–Actually your “thesis” has been disproved several times and that is not even counting solitaire giving you the business on your deflection of the three examples.
“the idea that historical events of major significance such as the fall of constantinople or the discovery of the new world were driven by racism and not the quest for resources is misguided.”—No one said the discovery of the new word was driven by racism. This is why your argument falls flat because you are trying to put forth your straw man argument to dismiss the fact that after the new world was discovered and all it’s inhabitants it was a matter of racism and not resources.
That is why I stand by what I said about you not having the mental ability to keep up with what Taotesan said and created your own ideas based solely on your inability to grasp it to begin with.
“o logically demonstrate what a stupid blog this is.”—Yet the only thing you demonstrated was how stupid you are. Good Job. 😉
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@taotesan
I look forward to reading your response. You provide great insight.
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@ apportune
You say that you’re not white.
So why do you give a toss if white people are the enemy?
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On the topic of white liberals, I recently had an interesting conversation with Black women and other non-black women. They openly refused to support the womensmarch. I will post an article that echos my feelings about how white women typically expect black and brown people to do the work and only serve as a fluffer for their causes, while being unavailable for ours. Many of these women who more than likely see themselves as liberals.
I recently had to let a friend go over this because of all the whining she did about Trump winning and the moment I pointed out a racist situation she had the nerve to say “it is only about race if you make it about race.” While I usually don’t cut off friendships over difference of opinions, I had to cut that one off. Don’t want to waste my energy giving more to my “so called liberal white friends” than I am getting in return.
https://www.colorlines.com/articles/why-im-skipping-womens-march-washington-opinion
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@sharinalr
“I recently had to let a friend go over this because of all the whining she did about Trump winning and the moment I pointed out a racist situation she had the nerve to say “it is only about race if you make it about race.”
Ouch! I’m sorry you lost a friend. However, she was pretty inconsiderate about your feelings.
Her comment made me think of Abagond’s Broken Record Department. The 2010 post, “You See Racism In Everything” seems tailor made for your former friend’s outlook and comment to you. These passages really hit home:
I wish I could go a day without thinking about race——-no hastily clutched purses when I approach, not being followed through predominantly White neighborhoods by police cars, not seeing demeaning Black stereotypes on television and not being recognized by co-workers in supermarkets because they have their “color filters” on when not at work.
Race is a construct that White people don’t have to think about. Race and its rules allow White people to consider themselves normal and everyone else as not normal. When you are part of the “normal” group, you don’t have to think of your actions, your attitudes or the feelings of people outside of the “normal” group.
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@ apportune
You were far less entertaining tonight, and your rating has slipped to 4/10. You need to up your game if you expect to hold my interest. I could have been cleaning my guns and watching Nascar.
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“I recently had to let a friend go over this because of all the whining she did about Trump winning and the moment I pointed out a racist situation she had the nerve to say “it is only about race if you make it about race.” While I usually don’t cut off friendships over difference of opinions, I had to cut that one off. Don’t want to waste my energy giving more to my “so called liberal white friends” than I am getting in return.”
@ Sharina,
Have you ever gone for a leisurely surf on this vast website?
http://stuffwhitepeopledo.blogspot.com
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Contained protest
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@William the Conqueror My pleasure!
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@Fan…
No, but thank you for supplying the link. I thought of myself as more aware of white behavior, but boy I got a lot more to learn.
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@Afrofem
Thank you, but if I am to be frank I am not in the slightest sorry that I lost her. She made a comment a while back presuming to know what black people want or think about riots. That was strike one.
A while back I started to look at white liberals in terms of learned behavior. As we are aware that slavery and the history to follow effected black people, so has the power structure set up to benefit whites. During Jim Crow, white people would be polite to you (white liberals) and still never say a thing when a black person was wrong beat or abused. White feminism is the same way. Whole movement was on the back of black and brown people, yet those “nice” white liberal women didn’t have time to help end racism for them.
With the current situations taking place against Muslims, we as black and brown people do not have time to put all our time or energy into white people’s pet projects. We got work to do.
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“… we as black and brown people do not have time to put all our time or energy into white people’s pet projects.”
I wholeheartedly agree!
And — we as black and brown people do not have to put our time or energy into being white people’s pets!!!
ANY excess time and energy we have should go towards furthering our own causes, making life better for us, first and foremost – like every other group in existence does. No one else can or will love us better than we can love ourselves!
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@Sharinalr
“We got work to do.”
Agreed. I think of this effort as a marathon, not a sprint.
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Thank you, but if I am to be frank I am not in the slightest sorry that I lost her.
Who is that?
And — we as black and brown people do not have to put our time or energy into being white people’s pets!!!
They only use you and discard you as a group once they get what they want and conveniently forget you. To add insult to injury, they will criticize you for being overly sensitive when you speak about race. I am on to their machinations having been raised among them, have been since I was first called n***er and strove to understand ‘them’. Boy did I ever!
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@Herneith
“Who is that?”—A former white friend.
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How not to do diversity lol
http://montrealgazette.com/news/local-news/montreal-fete-nationale-parade-floats-raise-diversity-concerns
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@ MJB
Any moment Mirkwood’s going to show up to defend it because Quebec.
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@ michaeljonbarker
This quote was telling:
Lubin is completely tone deaf. Where have I heard this dreck before? LOL!!!
White supremacy is a powerful drug.
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