#BlackOutDay is March 6th 2015 – and maybe it will become the first Friday of every month. It is a day for Black people all over the world – anyone who is at least part African – to post pictures of themselves on the Internet and repost those of others. What a genius idea! Simple yet powerful. And, it is trending on Twitter.
If you have a Tumblr, Twitter, Facebook, Vine, Instagram or other social media account, you can take part! The hashtags you can use are:
- #BlackOutDay
- #BlackFriday
- #BlackOut
- #TheBlackOut
- #Black Selfie Day
You can, of course, post pictures without any of these tags.
If you do not want to post your own picture or if you are not Black, you can still take part by reposting the pictures of others.
It is meant for pictures, video and artwork showing ordinary Black people, not the rich and famous, who already have paid professionals pushing their image.
@BlackOutDay is the brainchild of expect-the-greatest on Tumblr:
“I got inspired to propose Blackout day after thinking ‘Damn, I’m not seeing enough Black people on my dash’. Of course I see a constant amount of Black celebrities but what about the regular people? Where is their shine? ….
All my life I have heard my grandma tell me stories of how her own people did her because she was lighter than most. She told me some awful stories that will make anybody tear up and its these stories that make me wish that there wasn’t such a divide in skin tones. We need a unified agreeance that ALL black people are beautiful and worthy of praise and admiration, and Blackout day is a step towards that.”
He did not think it would take off. Chescaleigh, who has tons of followers, backed it. He hopes it will become the first Friday of every month.
Part of what drew me to Tumblr was that it made it easy to regularly see pictures of women who come close to my ideas of beauty as opposed to the White idea of beauty that is rained down upon us daily from Western media.
You saw this coming:
@nikneville1 on Twitter:
“So black people have something called #BlackOutDay, in other words it’s only considered racist if it’s called #WhiteOutDay “
and expansion-of-blockade on Tumblr:
“how about we have an event where every single race/ethnicity (including white people) share and reblog selfies instead of having this exclusive and segregational blacks-only secret club bullshit “
This is the same White privilege mindset that leads Whites to complain about Black History Month, Black Entertainment Television and affirmative action. They seem to be blind to the fact that in the US every day is #WhiteOutDay! The beauty and humanity of White people are seen coast to coast and pole to pole, while they put down the beauty and humanity of others.
Instead of seeing #BlackOutDay as some kind of unfair advantage Blacks are trying to gain, Whites should see it as an effect caused by their own anti-Black racism.
Some of what was posted:
See also:
My eyes welled up at the sight of Mike Brown. I ache for his family.
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This is dope!
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I don’t have a twitter, but I just might sign up for this.
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It never ceases to amaze me when white people make a federal case out of black people giving recognition to themselves and other black folks. Give it a rest already. Not everything has to be about you. 🙄
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They’re threatened because Black people and people of color are doing a lot of activism lately and it’s not going to stop.
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Hundreds year old chickens are coming home to roost.
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I thought the pictures posted right here were nice. Thank you.
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tumblr has some awesome pics, love seeing all the beauty, everyone is being represented from the old to the young , the able and disabled, gay and straight, I love it.
lol at them complaining about they should have a whiteoutday, well i’ll start it off
http://abcnews.go.com/US/bald-eagles-spotted-webcam-protecting-eggs-snow/story?id=29430601
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while they are at it maybe they can whiten black friday as well. I guarantee u these are the same folks that will complain when we say black lives matter, and will be the ones saying well don’t all lives matter that’s reverse racist.
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Might I recommend Through the Lens Darkly. It’s a documentary on the history of Black photography and imagery. The film is available on Netflix and Amazon Prime Instant Video.
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I had a ball on tumblr today and it’s still going strong right now. You bet this will continue for a long time because so many connections were being made.
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welcome to peak attention whoring
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Love these photos beautiful black people
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@mstoogoodforyall: whiteout is for mistakes
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I applaud anything that might further/empower Black Culture/Community!
“whiteout is for mistakes”
LOL Sure you right!!!
Blackout is for correcting those mistakes!
“welcome to peak attention whoring”
Hey Thwack
Repeat this five times,
‘Say it loud, I’m Black and I’m proud!’
(Did YOU spontaneously explode yet?)
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The big question is: would this poster say the same thing about a “White-Out Day” if such a thing were named? Would they claim such a thing was a “exclusive and segregational whites-only secret club bullshit”? Or is it only when Black people have something to give themselves a voice and say “Hey! We’re here too!” that they react, making seeming “equality” statements like the one above (and thereby showing that they aren’t REALLY after “equality” after all … what they REALLY don’t like is they don’t like Black people)?
And someone here mentioned “all lives matter”. I say that “Black Lives Matter” is a corollary of “All Lives Matter”. IOW, to believe the second without the first is actually a contradiction. And also, I’d say, I do not believe there is any reason the “Black Lives Matter” movement would say that NOT all lives matter!
Another intriguing pattern is that these things like “WhiteOutDay”, etc. ALWAYS and ONLY come up in REACTION to Black people taking initiative — you NEVER see Whites come out with a “WhiteOutDay” SPONTANEOUSLY. I’ll bet NOBODY even THOUGHT of a “WhiteOutDay” until #BlackOutDay came along. Did “AllLivesMatter” appear FIRST? Um, NO!
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^^^ LOL!
It makes me want to open a Tumblr account. It was gorgeous seeing the rainbow colors of Blackness. We are the most beautiful people in the world! * in my Nina Simone voice* I did participate on Twitter, I hope this continues to be a thing.
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Just Me
Hey Thwack
Repeat this five times,
‘Say it loud, I’m Black and I’m proud!’
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Why should I be proud of something I didn’t do?
Good things don’t require boosterism or puffery.
You guys sound like white people.
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@ mike4ty4
Because of the White Default, White things are rarely called “White”:
– White affirmative action is called “the labour market”,
– White History is called “history class”,
– White Entertainment Television is called ABC, CBS and NBC,
– White public radio is called NPR,
– White Jesus is called Jesus,
– the White New York Times is called the New York Times.
And so on. Things are set up in the US so that, unless you make a special effort, like with #BlackOutDay or Black History Month or affirmative action, it becomes a White thing. Not in an overt Klan kind of way, in most cases, but in an insidious, taken-for-granted way.
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“Why should I be proud of something I didn’t do?”
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On second thought, you may be on to something… seeing how being proud entails having dignity and possessing something that’s noteworthy and positive.
My bad!!
You’re right! Why should YOU be proud??
Besides, saying that just may get you struck down by lightning.
🙂
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I like this movement i hope it catches fire and spreads with black folks all over the world. What’s wrong with celebrating our blackness and who cares if white folks get salty. They get to celebrate who they are all year round 24/7
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@Just Me
Were you born a black person?
If so, why are you taking credit for that event when you had nothing to do with producing it?
Indeed, running a 4 minute mile is something to be proud of DOING; being born with color, or a penis…
not so much.
Have you ever done anything great or vast?
Or are you planning on riding your dark skin into the end zone unopposed?
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I love my people. It will give me confidence to see such beauty often denied publicity. Bless you all. XX
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@mike4ty4
“Another intriguing pattern is that these things like “WhiteOutDay”, etc. ALWAYS and ONLY come up in REACTION to Black people taking initiative — you NEVER see Whites come out with a “WhiteOutDay” SPONTANEOUSLY. I’ll bet NOBODY even THOUGHT of a “WhiteOutDay” until #BlackOutDay came along. Did “AllLivesMatter” appear FIRST? Um, NO!”—-I have noticed this pattern and have, on occasion, questioned whites on this with no response. They usually seem resentful that blacks are doing something about it and they are not.
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“Were you born a black person?”
**************************************
No suh…. I won that HONOR in a card game whilst stationed in Iraq!
Before that I was undeviatingly an Indian from Guyana… **scratches head** or was it a dark Mexican from B.R.’s adopted homeland?
I don’t rightly recall right now. I get (self) memory issues whenever I communicate with so-called black males who nominally disrespect Black women, and disregard Black people, as a whole.
When/how did You pretend to migrate from being totally bankrupt in possessing any melanin? Or possessing a good spirit?
You almost clever little scammer, you.
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@sharinalr: It was interesting to me that whites would be so butt hurt about black people celebrating themselves.
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@Mary Burrell
Very true. It is as if we stab them in the back anytime we do something that does not include them.
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@Just Me
Too funny.
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@TaleofLions
Thank you.
It’s too sad, actually. I don’t truly enjoy taking whacks at thwack.
Here’s a soul who may have HAD a great potential to do positive things for Africans and Blacks yet somehow became too iniquitous in the bitterness and corrosiveness of whiteness.
What a damn shame! 😦
Thwack/Exhibit A – what happens to soul that delves overly deep into the bowls of insanity (aka whiteness aka western philosophy).
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@taleoflions, Indeed-I am LmaOoo over here at Just Me’s serious reading he is handing out today!
The #BlackOutDay is a wonderful movement, anything that promotes both positivity and unity is always worth striving for!
Sidenote: The Unoriginal, jealousy-filled and Insecure reaction (b.k.a. #whiteoutday) to this promotion is reminiscent of high schoolers hatin’ on the out-group that is now becoming popular (lol) Ya’ll know these white folkz Cannot stand being left out of Black people’s business, as they know they are always on the forefront of all things Innovative and Cool (for what would they do without them (and other POC) if they weren’t allowed to rob them daily of their awesome flavor and style!?
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@Just Me: “Have you ever done anything great or vast? ”
How “great or vast” does something have to be for one to be able to be proud of it? E.g. a mentally-handicapped individual getting all B’s in high school may not be a very “vast” accomplishment on any absolute scale, but it would be significant for them, should they not be proud?
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@Just Me: How does one truly gain a “good spirit”?
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mike4ty4
How “great or vast” does something have to be for one to be able to be proud of it? E.g. a mentally-handicapped individual getting all B’s in high school may not be a very “vast” accomplishment on any absolute scale, but it would be significant for them, should they not be proud?
———————————————————————————————–
Getting good grades is something a person can be proud of because it is something THEY DID.
Did you make yourself black?
I have plenty of melanin, but I also have a big penis; so which one of these traits which I had nothing to do with producing should I be proud of?
Are we gonna have #bigpenisday next month?
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+Mike4ty4
“How does one truly gain a “good spirit”?”
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
I’m not sure how one can “gain” a good spirit.
Maybe it’s simply a GIFT that only the Universe (Creator) can give… maybe like a tree that bears fruit… because all trees don’t and can’t produce fruit that is GOOD to eat.
Maybe everyone chooses or gets the spirit they really want.
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Kiwi
Something that keeps nagging me is who would qualify as black.
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Everyone is black when hung from a tree.
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Oh wow.
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@Kiwi
Sad, but true. Any given community or group of people is as defined by its members as it is by its non-members. A huge part of being Irish is being Not English, for example. It’s not even about skin color in most cases, but culture and history. Unfortunately, it makes stereotyping nigh inevitable so I tend not to get upset.
The fact that Blackness and the Black Diaspora came to exist because of racism further complicates matters.
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Kiwi
@ thwack
I’m afraid it’s not so simple. Other groups, like Chinese, Japanese, Natives, Mexicans, and even Italians and Jews (white by today’s standards) were lynched for racist reasons. Are they black, too?
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The short answer is yes.
Why?
Because deciding who is qualified for mistreatment is the necessary preliminary step required before the mistreatment can commence.
White supremacy = “I decide”
The reason its difficult for you to understand is you are trying to rationalize racism and even white people can’t do that. They get in arguments all the time regarding who should be hung.
Sometimes the only thing preventing them from hanging each other is when you walk in the room.
If white women could be burned for being witches during the Salem Witch trials, what makes you think you can’t be hung from a tree for being black?
Back in 1912 or something white people hung an African circus elephant from a railroad crane because it killed its trainer. They also electrocuted another elephant and filmed it.
Do your research.
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@Just Me: If it’s not something in someone’s control, then it is OK to fault the person on it?
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Mike
Mike, if a crazed sword wielder beheaded all the members of your family and extended family in their sleep because he said the Devil made him do it, who would you fault for this atrocity?
As far as I know, everyone has a *free will.*
They decide if they will produce fruit, or poison. Or, both.
However, if a person is ill with lets say Tourette Syndrome then they are afflicted with something (supposedly) outside of their control and should be excused, within reason.
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@Just Me:
Free will, so then it’s not a gift, but a choice. So then yes, there is responsibility.
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“Free will, so then it’s not a gift, but a choice.”
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Mike, I don’t believe that they’re mutually exclusive.
All GOOD things are gifts… that’s my opinion.
GIFT – (1)The act of giving. (2) Something acquired without compensation. (3) ….
Yet we can choose whether we GIFT others, or not… so it is free will.
Or we can put it this way: When we’re born with certain GIFTS, or later receive other gifts, do we lose our capacity to exercise free will? To choose right or left, up or down, yes or no?
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@ Kiwi
I’m sorry but you sound EXTREMELY patronizing. What on Earth has made YOU think that Black people haven’t thought about or haven’t been dealing with these kinds of issues already for HUNDREDS of years?!?! The Diaspora knows what we look like! I have some people in my family who are darn near white, especially on my father’s side. Some people who can pass for white do, or they can identify as Black. People of African descent in Western Hemisphere have been making that choice for hundreds of years and we’ve known about them, seen them, and lived with them for hundreds of years without you there to “warn” us about them. People with African ancestrycan either identify as Black or not. It’s up to them. I’m also sure that you’re aware that people can identify as a group and still be individuals. We have no problem seeing whites as individuals who come from different countries and have different ethnicities. So YES, we can in fact expect people to stop negatively stereotyping us as monolith. Because we have never done anything to deserve the utterly dehumanizing racial stereotypes heaped upon any of us in the first dxmn place.
Furthermore, unlike whites who imposed the term and identity of Black upon us so that they could racially oppress us, people are using that term and group identity to attain group cohesion, political power, economic profit, and ultimately liberation from their racial oppression. If anyone decides to turn that into something negative, so be it. They’re probably stupid racist fxxcks anyway. As for other racial groups who are not of African descent identifying as black? I don’t ever want any white Europeans appropriating our shxt. They’ve done it enough throughout history. As for other non-African people of color, with the exception of aborigines – I’m not sure how I feel about it. Only black people are subjected to anti-blackness and other non-black people of color engage in it all the time. I can coalesce with them but I don’t want them co-opting our very specific experiences or problems. And I don really care how that sounds because thanks to the racial hierarchy Europeans created, Black people are considered the “oppposite race”, literally in opposition to whites. This means that Black “race” is considered to be the perpetual enemy of the white race, against whom all whites must unite. Anti-blackness is the fulcrum and foundation of white supremacy. It’s why they reserve their harshest, most life threatening, and utterly genocidal behavior for us.
We are considered to be the complete antithesis of humans, literally the anti- humans. When I found found out that whites actually LIKE the clearly illegal and inhumane racial disparities and destruction caused by the prison industrial complex, I started to recognize the full extent that our lives were in danger with these people. Most haven’t changed since they were burning us at the stake and mutilating our bodies in lynchings: they truly like hurting us. They don’t think we’re as fragile as other human beings nor do they think we feel pain. We live in a whire supremacist world where we are clearly marked for death and all manner of utterly barbaric and completely uncivilized behavior because of our imposed group identity. We need to find some way redefine and coalesce under that group identity and use it fight back and resist this racial oppression or they might outright kill or enslave us again.
http://www.slate.com/articles/health_and_science/science/2014/08/racial_bias_in_criminal_justice_whites_don_t_want_to_reform_laws_that_harm.html
“White people are fine with laws that hurt Blacks”
Admittedly, I have been thinking that instead of identifying as the Black race should identify as African race to for the purposes of connecting us to our land of geographical origin for the purposes of claiming our heritage and geographical claim. Racial identity is always tied to geography, because once you identify with a continent you have a legitimate claim its land and natural resources. This is exactly why the Boers in South Africa are trying to get themselves officially classified as “white Africans” right now.
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@ Kiwi
There are some typos, but I hope you get my gist. And If you want to know more about “political blackness” amongst non-whites you should check out Malcolm X’s speech “The Black Revolution.”
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Again… RACE is sociological and so long as it is there will never be consensus on it. Being “Black” can mean a lot of things to a lot of people. And the biggest surprise is when Black Americans begin to understand that Black Africans don’t necessarily see them as “their people” in many cases…
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@ mary
yeah it is I guess blackout is a mistake so they need to white it out/ “correct” it. Apparently black folks loving ourselves and each other is a mistake and they need to be there to correct the mistake of too much melanin being celebrated. enough talking about the whiteout i’m getting snow blindness already just thinking about it
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@mstoogood4yall: Exactly
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“You sound as if even you haven’t made up your mind as to who belongs to your community.”
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Excuse my absent-mindedness, Kiwi. I forget. What community are you from, again?
Korean?
Chinese?
Vietnamese?
Japanese?
Filipino?
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very interesting coming from a blog poster and most of the commenters esp black who pride themselves on anonymity!
Or maybe I need to go to a black blog about black people where they actual show themselves and thier um er o yeah black or at least dark complexioned.
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@ Kiwi
I believe Abagond is right- most people recognize that being part of the “black race” means that you are part African. It’s also important that you Another publicly identify with being part African of your own free will. There are many African-Americans who can pass for white, look darn near white, or have a white parent but publically identify as being Black or of the greater African Diaspora [African American, African Carribean, Afro Latino, etc.] of their own free will. [Lena Horne, Fredi Washington, Thurgood Marshall, Halle Berry, Vanessa Williams, President Obama, etc.] Along with African people on the continent – that is who I view as being Black. I DO think that we should think about changing it to the African “race” for the purposes of group cohesion and to attain political power, economic access a profit to illegally appropriated lands, resources, and heritage, and ultimately liberation. Oh and so that we don’t have to answer questions like this trying to make it seem as though being Black is such a nebulous concept that no one can really grasp. Whenever the discussion is “Black poverty” we’re all clear on who the Black people are, but whenever it’s used for the purposes of trying to empower ourselves it’s “Who’s Black?” I’m tired of it and it’s a ridiculous roadblock people constantly try to use to take our eyes off the prize. Nope. I have no problem identifying as an African because that’s what I am. I may not know the exact ethnic group I’m descended from, but I have an idea based on what my father has told me. I know where I come from and it’s not this place.
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@ Kiwi
Sorry, typing on my phone. If you need clarification on anything please let me know.
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@ Kiwi
Sorry, typing on my phone. If you need clarification on anything please let me know…
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@mstoogood4yall
“i’m getting snow blindness already just thinking about it”—ROFL
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The problem is that in the the end, even using the term “The Black Race” is falling into a White Supremacist ideal. Africans themselves, traditionally never saw themselves as an “African Race.” They saw themselves as a vast number of African ethnicities, tribes, and cultures. The idea of a color-coded mega race is itself rooted in White Supremacy. The notion that all lighter-skinned people are White, and share a common culture or common genetics was also virtually unknown just a few centuries ago.
If we would free ourselves of certain language and ideas, then why not go back to the thinking of Africans on the subject, before colonization?
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@King
So? Like many other “racial” groups we have issues with xenophobia and ethnocentrism. Furthermore, people around the globe Africans have been brainwashed about African-Americans from the racist American media. And I’ve read that some Africans STILL aren’t aware of the sheer extent of racism and racial terrorism here – AGAIN, thanks to the racist media. How many people around the globe do you think are aware of banishments, sundown towns, and terrorism that constantly caused African Americans to be divested of any wealth they HAD managed to build up in Tulsa, OK, Rosewood, FL, Forsythe County, GA and Vienna, IL? The only way to counteract that is education.
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@King
Oops I meant ” Furthermore, people around the globe – Africans included – have been brainwashed about African-Americans from the racist American media.”
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“If we would free ourselves of certain language and ideas, then why not go back to the thinking of Africans on the subject, before colonization?”
Because of colonization and our unawareness and unpreparedness of this event.
And while perhaps false white supremacy just like religion is very effective and successful.
Just like all religion its based on lies ,simplicities ,double standards and blatant contradictions ,but cause who is always represented in the media respected by all governments and been around for thousands of years.
As to the specific topic and my as usual ignored statement ,I decided this years ago ,as opposed to when its fashionable or trendy but then again I’m an outlier I actual try and practice true and honesty as opposed to lip service to the concept and I’m probably very wrong but I also will proably never be informed of such by one of the biggest biological groups I belong to.
But its standard practice to lie as will as kill select members or you will die.
Until you die anyway.
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@king
I am well aware that African people used to identify by ethnicity [Zulu, Fulani, Dinka, Herero,etc.] or by sometimes by the states they came from [Ghana, Abyssinia, Egypt] but the legacy of 500 years of racial chattel slavery, academic and scientific racism, colonialism, modern day neo-colonialism, globalized white supremacy and anti-African racism due to the white mass media, military, and their increasing grip on international trade means that we live in a highly racialized white supremacist world where Africans are subjected to particular [mis] treatment and dehumization wherever we go. The racial stereotypes and imbecilic beliefs of some of the most violent, hateful, barbaric, and warlike whites on Earth – white Americans – are being exported across of the globe. These sociopaths STILL minimize and make excuses for lynchings where they used to burn African people at the stake – white American liberals included. People of African descent are still their main targets for permanant non-human status and super-exploitation. Unlike whites people of African descent don’t have the freaking luxury of hoping that if we “just ignore race” it will go away. Either we try and craft an identity that will empower us or leave us at the mercy of racist sociopaths.
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@ Kiwi
Whatever. I’m clearly talking about African people – particularly the African Diaspora – who literally had their cultures, languages, names, and customs beaten and tortured out of them. Many non-white people know where their families have come from. They know if their families were Filipino, Indian, Chinese, Japanese, Lakota, Cherokee, Cree, etc. Many of Black people don’t have that luxury. We were deliberately cut off from any kind of connection or geographical base EXCEPT the plantation. Your language and your politics for empowerment might be different and your notion of community might be too. Different racial groups experienced racism differently. Instead of trying to fixate on what Black people are trying to do to resist the particular racism WE face, why don’t you concentrate on whatever community you feel you belong to needs to be doing. Either way, stop trying to mock or condescend to people whose experience you don’t share and who’s politics probably won’t work for you. It’s as simple as that.
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@ Mbeti
I don’t think that I fully understand your statement.
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“By Veronica’s standards, my community includes Indians, Pakistanis, Sri Lankans, Arabs, Iranians, Turks, Armenians, Kazakhs, and Pacific Islanders. ”
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Hi Kiwi
I am not asking you about Veronica’s standards… I did not frame my question that way. Are you not able to absorb or comprehend lucid writing? I thought it was simple enough.
Nonetheless you’re being true to (your) form with your usual ineptness when it comes to patronizing others AND delivering a non-answer to even the simplest question.
For the record, I find your presence here and your views/interest in Black people, suspect. I wouldn’t be surprised to learn that someone is paying you to do what you’re doing here.. distract, derail.. being dishonest, disruptive, slick (or rather trying to be…).
You say some of the dumbest things I’ve seen on this blog, like this for example:
Up-thread YOU stated:
“Something that keeps nagging me is who would qualify as black.
….
Just something to think about before getting too excited about “unity”.”
Kiwi, there you go, AGAIN, (as if you don’t already know). You remind me of a certain Jane character formerly shown on Saturday Night Live circa the Eddie Murphy era!
There are TONS of Black people who have been EXCITED … waiting a very long time to become closer with other Black people, but here YOU come with your condescending patriarchal, psuedo-omniscience bull shite wisdom to warn Black people about getting too excited about unity. WTF is that about!! Who are you, big papa almighty??
Kiwi, why would/should Black people’s unification nag YOU?
Are you a protector of Black people?
What’s your investment in this matter??? Do you have something to lose?
Are you Black?
Are you African?
Why does blackoutday, a new and innovative CELEBRATION of a group that you don’t admit to being a part of (Black people) bother you as to who might, or might not, qualify as Black? Why should our UNITING under whatever name of choice we call the umbrella we come closer TOGETHER under be of any concern to you??
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@King
First: We African Americans are a Tribe forged in the crucible of Antiblack America, so to speak. Right now we claim the entire continent of Africa rather than looking at how our history within America made us who we are. As a result, we don’t have a name that embodies the specificity of our culture & history like those on the continent.
Race is a lie, but we who are descended from numerous Tribes call each other “Brother” and “Sister”. That connection is genuine.
Second: Race is a Social Construct, but stating that fact is not going to make Race disappear. Western foreign relations are built upon the racist “Clash of Civilizations” model, and have been since the dawn of Western Colonialism/Imperialism. We’ve little choice but to forge a Pan-African Civilization to check Western (White) Civilization’s dominance in the realms of media, military, and resources. Afterall, international relations between the African Diaspora and Continental Africans played an enormous role in ending imperialism, colonialism, and apartheid.
There will come a day when Race is well and truly dead, but for now the West has forced a Game of Race upon all of us, and the Earth is the board upon which it is played. We can either play to win or forfeit and lose, but we can’t truly escape Race without escaping the Earth’s gravity well.
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“By Veronica’s standards, my community includes Indians, Pakistanis, Sri Lankans, Arabs, Iranians, Turks, Armenians, Kazakhs, and Pacific Islanders. ”
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Hi Kiwi
I am not asking you about Veronica’s standards… I did not frame my question that way. Are you not able to absorb or comprehend lucid writing? I thought it was simple enough.
Nonetheless you’re being true to (your) form with your usual ineptness when it comes to patronizing others AND delivering a non-answer to even the simplest question.
For the record, I find your presence here and your views/interest in Black people, suspect. I wouldn’t be surprised to learn that someone is paying you to do what you’re doing here.. distract, derail.. being dishonest, disruptive, slick (or rather trying to be…).
You say some of the dumbest things I’ve seen on this blog, like this for example:
Up-thread YOU stated:
“Something that keeps nagging me is who would qualify as black.
….
Just something to think about before getting too excited about “unity”.”
Kiwi, there you go, AGAIN, (as if you don’t already know). You remind me of a certain Jane character formerly shown on Saturday Night Live circa the Eddie Murphy era!
There are TONS of Black people who have been EXCITED … waiting a very long time to become closer with other Black people, but here YOU come with your condescending patriarchal, psuedo-omniscience bullsh@t wisdom to warn Black people about getting too excited about unity. WTF is that about!! Who are you really, big papa almighty??
Kiwi, why would/should Black people’s unification nag YOU?
Are you a protector of Black people?
What is your investment in this matter???
Are you Black?
Are you African?
Why does blackoutday, a new and innovative CELEBRATION of a group that you don’t admit to being a part of (Black people) bother you as to who might, or might not, qualify as Black? Why should our UNITING under whatever name of choice we call the umbrella we come closer TOGETHER under be of any concern to you??
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@ taleoflions
Yes, I agree that we cannot go back to what we were. We are one tribe now—the Lost Tribe. We have our own divergent history and culture. And the old barriers of tribe custom and culture have been stripped away to leave what and who we are.
It would be my great hope that we may find our way to something new and unexpected. But there are many forces working against that. We were brought to this New World to be slaves, and there are more of us slaves today than before the Civil War. The best slave is the one who believes himself to be free.
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@ Just Me
Of course, you must make your own mind, but Kiwi has been battling racists here for a long, long, time. Not only that but he’s pretty good at it 🙂
Every commenter raises questions that people don’t like from time to time, I am probably the guiltiest of this. But it doesn’t mean they are working for the CIA. All I’m saying is that you gave to judge where people are coming from by ALL that they have said, not just by the things that occasionally piss you off.
That’s all I had to say.
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@King
Agreed. We must become comfortable in our own skin and come to accept our unique history. African history didn’t begin with slavery, but our Tribe’s history did. We wouldn’t have had Harriet Tubman, Frederick Douglass, and Denmark Vesey otherwise. You have to be a slave to want freedom.
That being said, I for one am not opposed to adapting cultural elements from the African Continent, with the understanding that we would be utilizing such elements to develop the culture & identity we already have. Sankofa, for example, has a different connotation for us than it does for the Akan because of our enslavement*. Similarly, Hip-Hop has a great amount of influence on the consciousness of Continental Africans and the Black Atlantic, but Hip-Hop didn’t turn them into members of our Tribe. Rather, Hip-Hop became another means of expressing and developing the unique culture they always had.
*The movie Sankofa perfectly symbolizes this in that it uses an Akan term to explore our Tribe’s history and identity.
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“Since I’ve already said my piece on the matter, I would no longer like to have any of your comments addressed at me, at least until you apologize to King for the shaming remarks you made about his racial standing.”
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Dodge much, Kiwi?
**Since you’ve already said your piece on the matter…??**
How convenient. Very serious charges and accusations are levied at you, and this is the best you can come up with as an explanation, or defense? Pitiful!
Don’t think for a pico-second that because I’m calling you out as a possible paid TROLL, or, a not-so-undercover troublemaker, that shifting the focus onto you and King’s relationship (whatever that is – birds of a feather …?) will get any of my comments about your questionable and problematic presence here rendered unseen. Anyone willing to discern what you write here can easily spot you for the shyster SHAM/fraud that you are.
“…apologize to King for the shaming remarks you made about his racial standing.”
LOL
(I see you got jokes!)
Here you are, again, doing what you do, injecting yourself into matters that are well beyond your scope, understanding and business.
Perhaps by the time the Earth’s Sun expires and turns into a black hole, I’ll offer up an apology… soooo if I were you, I wouldn’t hold my breath…
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*Twitch* I know this is OT, obnoxious nitpicking, and generally über nerdy, but the Sun doesn’t have nearly enough mass to ever become a black hole. Betelgeuse maybe, but not Sol/Aten/Ra.
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@Kiwi
Sorry kiwi. I had taken a Hydrocodone.
No I am not a druggie and yes I am serious.
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@Just me
I respect your comments greatly, but when it comes to Kiwi and King I do think you are wrong. There are things I don’t agree with them on (kiwi with reparations), but I have always taken them both to be about the same anti-racist cause.
Yes, kiwi can utilize trollish tactics, but in all honesty so do I. That, however, does not mean he is a troll. When the subject matter is serious I have seen him add profound knowledge to the subjecT. I have seen him go head to head with trolls just like any other black commenter in here. Thwack in the past.
It just sucks when Commenters you admire fight.
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I wasn’t even aware that Just me was insulting me! Ha! I don’t really take that much notice him. How long has he been posting here anyway? I assumed he was new?
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@Kiwi
The charge of “troll” is the penultimate response from those who lack the intellect and LANGUAGE to discredit your logic
Wear it like a badge of honor.
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The jet black chick with the white dress. My god she is beautiful
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Sharina,
I don’t know why king has anything to do with this. This isn’t about him. Kiwi’s just using him as a smoke screen to hide behind to avoid adjusting or taking back his insensitive comments he’s made on this site.
““Something that keeps nagging me is who would qualify as black.
….
Just something to think about before getting too excited about “unity”.”
WHO SAYS THIS… why say this – on a thread about a unique people in need of healing, in need of coming together to attempt positive bonds, better relationships, reconciliation as it were. A people that has had a long AmeriKan history rife with mistreatment, oppression, self-hate, mistrust, confusion, suspicion and violence.
In my opinion, only an insensitive jerk – with an agenda – would do such a thing.
Perhaps I’m not as savvy as the bulk of readers who visit this blog. They, admirably, can ignore and overlook such stupidity, thereby keeping their cool and silence in the face of wanton offensiveness. They probably also have better things to do.
Me? I have a hard time sitting on my hands, letting something I perceive as foul go by unchallenged. While I can ignore the race realists, the nazis, the skin-heads and the color-blind, the self-haters …it’s many times harder to ignore those who pretend to champion what’s right while they OBVIOUSLY say and do what’s wrong (and ignorant/stupid/dumb).
Are you listening JOSH? (What’s in a name, huh..)
Sorry about that Sharina. Let me get back on track.
This is/was a thread about BLACK PEOPLE coming together in UNITY – and this non-Black (so-called anti racist) individual weighs in about some nonsense about whether Black people will know and recognize other Black people – as though he himself is Black, which he clearly is not.
It doesn’t really matter if he’s being paid to do this, or not. He’s made it plain that he’s does not have our best interest at heart. Truth be told, I would rather be in the unabashed company of 1000 (white) William the Conqueror types, than 1 Kiwi. William is at least honest, insightful. Kiwi is VERY SUSPECT. At the very least, a wise anti-racist would know when to shut up. Even a supposed one.
What would *motivate* a supposed anti-racist to say some ignorant mess like our excitement about unity is nagging at him? Why is that his business?
What is in this soul’s heart that would cause him to step like that??
“But those things which proceed out of the mouth come forth from the heart; and they defile the man.” — a bible verse
It’s clear I’m not the only one who finds his nonsense offensive. As far as his esteemed past heroics here, I couldn’t give a rat’s hind quarters!
One really bad deed CAN erase a host of perceived goodness. Good people don’t do bad stuff, and then stand behind it as if they did nothing wrong. As Abagond and others have rightly pointed out, a correct person won’t knowingly step on your toe and then not apologize for his misdeed, accident or not.
Kiwi won’t get a pass with me because some people like what he has written, or because he’s been here longer than others. So what!
Black people are more than capable of handling their own unifying affairs without outside interference and monkey-wrenching from those who come at them as if they were their children. I COULD NOT possibly defend any outsider, whomever that might be, who would say some mess like this.
We are all engulfed/surrounded and affected by the omnipresent fog of white-supremacy/racism. Yet when Kiwi attempts to deliver his anti-Black BS upon Black people’s collective psyche, he’s indeed delivering up an act of war. He is no ally of mine. He behaves as a proxy of the enemy would behave.
I thank the Creator that I haven’t had the full displeasure of reading ALL of his comments. I have surely read more than enough of his ad-nauseam, obsessive, ceaseless whining (at every opportunity) to express his feelings about Asian women pairing up with white men. I don’t tell non-Black people what I think their focus should be. I, as a Black man, would appreciate the same consideration.
@TalesofLions
Your comment re black holes is noted. No problem. Sometimes nits need picking (like the one I’m currently picking). My alleged faulty solar analogy nonetheless still stands. That apology won’t be forthcoming.
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“It’s obvious to me (but not you, obviously) that you’re just a very bad reader, like Veronica. But hey, that’s on you, not me.”
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Kiwi-
Oh really?
Gotta have that last word, huh? — lol …
So your argument, your logic, is that we can’t see you for who you are because we can’t read well? (And that’s on us, and not you???)
That’s PITIFUL!
I hope you were never, ever, on ANY debating team… whoa.
I’m almost embarrassed (for YOU) that you can’t counter any better than coming up with some infantile kindergarten-ish type of remark.
If there was some error in our reading, why aren’t you showing this error?
I’ve watched you debate others, many times. This is what you do, argue… show people their errors – when you have a (honest!) leg to stand on. But you have no (honest) leg here, and you know it.
Now you’re stuck in some sort of limbo – of your own making, You can’t say, “please excuse, I see your point..” because that is beneath your dignity. Nor can you win your self-deluding argument … which is: it’s not on you that some people can’t read. You can’t even be a good defeated foe and just fade away quietly into the sunset like any well trounced know-it-all, can you? You’ve got to come back with something – even if it’s nothing, just to have the final say. How sad.
Your words illustrate the apparent large deficits in your heart, a lack of integrity and overall shortfall of upstandingness. It’s disappointing and a shame when a man can’t step up and admit that he’s been a detriment all while playing childish games of glaring avoidance (not facing the issues at hand) in plain view for all to see.
Bad reading, poor reading comprehension, are these now your standard go-to arguments when you find yourself between a rock and a hard place?
** What exactly was it that I read incorrectly?
** Was it this (nonsense) you wrote a few months ago?
“Reparations are a bad idea because they would ultimately backfire. Paying reparations would fuel white resentment not just towards the blacks who receive them, but also towards other minorities. Ironically, most of the reparations would probably be paid not by whites but would instead be taken from the pockets of other minorities. This would additionally create resentment among minorities towards blacks, further deepening the divide between the marginalized groups.”
(I just LOVE the second and last sentences! LOL
I know YOU are well on your way to single-handedly deepening the divide – all by yourself – between Blacks and other people that act like you!)
** Or was it this other (nonsense) you wrote days ago?
“Something that keeps nagging me is who would qualify as black. Abagond said you have to be part African to be acceptably black. Would people be upset if an Australian aborigine posted a photo of himself? How about those who personally identify as black but don’t look the part, as with some multiracial people? Will these people be scrutinized and subjected to the judgement of a racial litmus test that would basically amount to a reverse One Drop Rule?
Just something to think about before getting too excited about “unity”.”
.
Lastly, why are you still addressing me when you made it clear that you weren’t interested in discussing this any further – if I didn’t meet your ridiculous demand?
(Maybe it’s YOUR READING that’s so awful that you can’t ascertain – or remember – what you wrote. As a public service, I’ll post that here, just for you .. lol)
.
“Since I’ve already said my piece on the matter, I would no longer like to have any of your comments addressed at me, at least until you apologize to King for the shaming remarks you made about his racial standing.”
.
Apologize? If you’re waiting for that to happen, or thought it has happened, then you haven’t read the memo.
Instead of writing dim-witted nonsense, your time would be better spent getting some serious help for your unresolved issues.
What unresolved issues?
The issues which cause you to think that ALL Black people are interested in what YOU condescendingly think we should do about matters that concern ONLY Black people.
How about this? You mind YOUR business, and let us mind and manage oaur own affairs – without your patronizing, arrogant, disdainful nonsense.
The same goes for you as well, JOSH.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
NOW
In accordance with blackoutday, this is my prayer, my sentiment, my hope for ALL my beautiful Black/African people, believers and unbelievers, everywhere:
Jehovah shall preserve your going out and your coming in from this time forth, and even for evermore.
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I’m sad i didn’t get in on this #blackoutday. too busy working….
I did however, enjoy the pictures of the beautiful black women. ^_^
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@ Kiwi
Yea, no. I “read” you correctly the first time. I don’t know whether you’re a troll or not, and I have admittedly seen you challenge anti-blackness on this blog before, but you seem to have a real problem with Black people doing anything SUBSTANTIVE to unify and empower themselves. Like Just Me says at least with someone who is direct about their anti-blackness you know exactly what you’re dealing with. But someone like you…you seriously sound no better than racist white liberals insert themselves into conversations that are CLEARLY none of their business, discourage Black people from “being too militant” or doing anything that makes them uncomfortable, and try to dictate the terms of our liberation from white supremacist system that literally robs us of our humanity.
And I really can’t believe you’re using a “I have a Black friend” type of excuse to to figleaf over your racially problematic behavior. That’s disgusting. Black folks aren’t here to be PROPS for you to pull out in order to silence other Black people who are criticizing you. You sound like yet ANOTHER non-Black person of color who is engaging in anti-blackness. I don’t care whether it’s conscious prejudice or unconscious bias. The only thing that is making you sound suspect is YOU. Period. Get it the fxck together and just address it. Seriously.
I repeat: Whenever the discussion is “Black poverty” we’re all clear on who the Black people are, but whenever it’s used for the purposes of trying to empower ourselves it’s “Who’s Black?” I’m tired of it and it’s a ridiculous roadblock people constantly try to use to take our eyes off the prize. Instead of trying to fixate on what Black people are trying to do to resist the particular racism WE face, why don’t you concentrate on whatever community you feel you belong to needs to be doing. Either way, stop trying to mock or condescend to people whose experience you don’t share and who’s politics probably won’t work for you. It’s as simple as that.
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@ Just Me
Thank you for all your commentary on here. I IMMEDIATELY picked up on what Kiwi was doing. I think he has something latent anti-blackness that he refuses to rectify and deal with – it’s as if he doesn’t realize that many of us know that non-Black people of color habitually engage in anti-blackness. I’ve seen him challenge anti-blackness before, but he’s extremely arrogant in his thinking. If he has have not experienced what it is like to be African in a white supremacist culture then surely he is SURELY not qualified to define what that means.
Like racist white liberals he appears to want to “help” Black people, but prefers to do it within his preferred scenario – “helping” Black people to whom he feels superior only to the extent that they don’t challenge the racial hierarchy and anti-blackness in any real or substantive way. Not only do we have to have to wage a psychological battle with racist whites for the right for black people to define themselves and organize themselves as they see fit, we often have to do it with non-Black people of color.
It all comes back to the fact that ALL non-Black people are promised that if they comply with the inhumane racial hierarchy and don’t challenge anti-blackness, then THEY won’t be the ones relegated to bottom of the racial hierarchy. It’s dxmn near instinctive for them to try and sabotage us. Instead of getting defensive [like white people], lot of people of color need to check their internalized unconscious biases. Because this shxt is habitual and it leads me not to trust a lot of non-Black poc. Every time I see one of them pull this kind of b.s. it really disgusts me. Just because you’re a person of color doesn’t mean that you can’t engage in horizontal hostility. And just because you’re a non-Black person of color doesn’t mean that you can’t engage in anti-blackness or colorism. Period.
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@taleoflions
Thank you for your commentary! Enlightening as always. It’s definitely got me seriously thinking about the notion of considering ourselves to be a specific tribe with a particular history.
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@Kiwi
There was an issue similar to this with Linda as well. Best to ignore Or pull a Linda.
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Can’t we all just get along? Save your vitriol for the white racists!
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Did someone say “sellout” or “white-minded?”
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Found this beautiful quote, true of all people of color:
“I will tell you this: it isn’t by accident that black people are still alive in this country, and contributing to the culture of this country, being integral to the culture of this country. It’s not accidental. We’ve resisted from the beginning. We continue to resist.
This is why I remain hopeful. In spite of lots and lots of things that should make me lose hope. I practice hope every day. But I’m very hopeful because I’m a student of history,and because I see every single day around me, whether it’s friends or families or people who are one step removed from that, people struggling for justice, struggling in some way against injustice, struggling in some way to build a world that they want to inhabit. I see that every day. There’s no way for me to lose hope, because of that reality. I have so much gratitude for people who get up and try to do anything for people; who try to do anything that is going to lead us to a more just world.”
“Reimagining Justice: An Interview with Mariame Kaba”
http://www.urbanfaith.com/2015/03/reimagining-justice-an-interview-with-mariame-kaba.html/2/
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Exactly.
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@Kiwi
Novel? Okay Let me DUMB IT DOWN and make it EASY enough for YOU to understand:
Blah, Blah, Blah.Get it your shxt together and fxcking address your anti-blackness and arrogance. I give a fxck if it’s conscious prejudice or unconscious bias. The only thing that makes you sound suspect is YOU. Period. Furthermore, I agree with what Just Me said about YOU. And that’s it.
That doesn’t necessarily mean I agree with what he said about King or anything else he’s said. Black folks aren’t here to be PROPS for you to pull out in order to silence other Black people who are criticizing you about your anti-blackness. Period.
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@ sharinalr
Excuse you? First of all, this has nothing to do with Linda. Second, stop deflecting. If you can’t see the latent anti-blackness that Kiwi is exhibiting that is YOUR problem, not mine.
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@Veronica
You are excused. I know it has nothing to do with Linda, but just like the Linda situation you got your panties in a bunch when she was actually trying to be cordial.
“Second, stop deflecting. If you can’t see the latent anti-blackness that Kiwi is exhibiting that is YOUR problem, not mine.”—-Sorry hun, but it was not deflection for me to tell him to stop following you up. It was plain advice as the fighting solved nothing. I am not sure how my comment made anything YOUR problem. Though it is clear you have a problem.
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I’ve seen it before ( @Veronica &Just Me) on the reparations thread. We all have our blind spots when it comes to racial politics. We can all get along, but ignoring it, or giving one a pass due to commenter alliances doesn’t help anyone to learn or grow. *jm2c*
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To answer a knucklehead question asked up-thread:
“Why should I be proud of something I didn’t do?”
or,
Why should I be proud of being a black person … pride in being black is the same as having pride a certain large body part! Neither of which I’m responsible for.
It’s not the same. That’s a PIG’s thinking…
Yeah, I guess YOUR intellect, knowledge and command of language makes you, Thwack, a real stand up superior/better person. Low-life much??
Speaking for myself, I share the the same sentiment graciously and clearly stated by an esteemed former Poet Laureate of the USA.
“I am overwhelmed by the grace and persistence of my people.”
Maya Angelou
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
@ Veronica & Lifelearner
You both (get it).
Thank you.
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You know Kiwi, if you liked your own mother (who you refer to as a sell-out because of her relationship with a white male) half as much as you seem to WORSHIP king, you might be a more settled person who’s willing to immerse yourself more in matters pertaining to your own ethnicity and ancestry.
Have you renounced your own heritage because deep down somewhere inside you, YOU THINK you’re Black, and/or WANT to be Black?
Maybe you’re just simply confused since you don’t self-identify as Black, but then why is it what happens between your little buddy and I such a huge interest to you? Do you believe I need to defend the things I say and feel about others, to you?
“…this blog belongs to Abagond. I would ask him for his opinion on the matter if not for the fact that he is just as guilty as Just Me.”
Finally, why are you taking a stab at Abagond who has been a thousand times more gracious toward you than I would ever be? How is he guilty – in fact what does he have to with any of this?? (Unbelievable!!! SMH)
(Yeah, I know… I must have read that wrong, also… it’s not your fault I can’t read… went over my head… I’m twisting your words.. and all that other blah, blah.. un-substantial bs you write.
rotflol Shucks, I must be in that group of commenters that’s “less familiar” with your writing. Apparently, Abagond is too.)
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Just Me
Yeah, I guess YOUR intellect, knowledge and command of language makes you, Thwack, a real stand up superior/better person.
————————————————————————————-
No, its my big penis and melanin.
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Not sure why my comment is in moderation, but Abagond you can delete it. I will try this again.
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@ Veronica
You’re excused.
Similar to the situation with Linda you have a need to get upset for no real reason. Your accusation of deflection is hilarious. Are you going to accuse me of being non-black or anti-black next? It is not a deflection for me to tell him to ignore you. Someone needs to be adult enough to let it go before it spirals out of control.
” If you can’t see the latent anti-blackness that Kiwi is exhibiting that is YOUR problem, not mine.”—If you think it is your problem then you made it your problem. You seem to be in the act of making a mountain out of a mole hill.
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@Just Me
I went back to read the quote you are referring too with Kiwi. This one I take no issues with because it is one that is valid to me.
“Something that keeps nagging me is who would qualify as black.”
Mainly because it is one I have discussed with others on this thread in the past. We have to acknowledge that in the past we as black people have not considered certain people black on flimsy merit. I get the history of why and I am happy that in those pictures above we can acknowledge all our shades as OURS. No more dark vs light skinned bs, but when I see a dark skinned Indian or Mexican I see them as us too and it is only natural to wonder if they can fit in or no.
This comment however I agree was condescending and just rude.
“Just something to think about before getting too excited about “unity”. One cannot expect others to stop stereotyping you as a monolith while at the same time expecting certain standards of conformity within your “community”.
So I won’t defend it. Though I still stand by what I said about him in general. He is not a troll and he adds a great deal of information to threads. As to remarks like these it is a teaching moment for him. If he does not learn he will not know. Though I think tempers are too high to even go that route right now.
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You picked a good selection of photos. I especially liked the mirror selfie with the guy and the young girl (dad and daughter?) all dressed up and looking so happy. I was also impressed by the woman who looked so beautiful while surrounded by all the hospital equipment. If they ever send out photos to people on another planet they should use some of these.
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Sharina
Although we have been known for doing both, Black people, in my opinion, are more apt to include than exclude. We even embrace people that are obviously non-Black, like on this blog! I think we’re more accepting towards outsiders (non-Blacks) than outsiders are accepting of us.
This embracing/accepting of others has helped us tremendously, hasn’t it? {sarcasm}
As a non-Black person why should bumble bee brain have a NAGGING CONCERN of who may, or may not, celebrate in a Black created and Black celebration of unity? He’s crossing the line, especially with that patriarchal tone he belches and spews his nonsense with. A real man would have stopped and said, ‘Oops, my bad. I went too far. I shouldn’t have said it that way. Sorry.’
But he ain’t no real man!
Why is OUR UNITY any of his damn business?
Who appointed him to be our guardian?
He should be working on his own serious issues (i.e. white men & asian females) and leave us to handle ours!
I do not insinuate myself arrogantly in matters specific to Asians, Latinos, and Native Americans. So why should one whose elevator can’t reach the top floor get a pass?
“I still stand by what I said about him in general. He is not a troll and he adds a great deal of information to threads.”
Hoorah for those who enjoy his posts. He hasn’t said or done anything that hasn’t been written or said before. There’s a great big Internet out there. Kiwi has no monopoly on a great deal of information. Whether he’s a troll or not is moot. As long as he makes these IDIOT moves, he will always amount to someone whose presence is less than desirable by some on this site.
Kiwi said: “Take a look at the kind of person Just Me is…”
Kiwi, as far as I’m concerned, you can take a flying leap off of a galloping goose!
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“I retract it, though I personally still agree with it. I apologize.”
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
This – and all his other drivel reveals to me everything I need to know about this individual’s mental state (sociopathic leanings).
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@ Just me
“Although we have been known for doing both, Black people, in my opinion, are more apt to include than exclude. We even embrace people that are obviously non-Black, like on this blog! I think we’re more accepting towards outsiders (non-Blacks) than outsiders are accepting of us.”—I agree.
“This embracing/accepting of others has helped us tremendously, hasn’t it? “—Even though you are being sarcastic I will answer this. In a way it has and in a way it has not. For the most part it really has not because as we can see with white people they are all but willing to throw us under the bus and make us a monolith, even though in most cases we are fighting their fight and crying for their loss. I won’t deny that non-blacks engage in the same things, but I do feel that non-blacks can bring to light issues that we as blacks may not be willing to face. Even though blacks have done much better about including and accepting blacks of all shades we can’t deny the large amount of hurt black gays, black nerds, mixed kids, dark sistahs, etc. that have felt the isolation of the black community. Yes we include, but when we scar we scar deep. We scar our own who have no where to turn. Who will not be accepted anywhere else but with us. That is why the blackout movement is so powerful. It not only puts a face to us to show whites and non-whites that we are diverse, but it reminds us as black people that we are diverse.
Whites deny their problems. They say a “they did it too” or point the finger at everyone else. We need to be better. We need to acknowledge and face it and fix it. We have followed their ways too long to only end up being the poster children for when it goes wrong.
I can’t answer anything for Kiwi and I will not make it my duty to. All I can say is we will have to agree to disagree. The important thing is we agree on the unity and betterment of our community.
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@Kiwi
If you are willing to share on open thread, then I will respectfully listen.
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@sharinalr: That was a nice post
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Kiwi, why retract something that you really feel… what’s said is said, no going back
To answer your question:
Kiwi@ Something that keeps nagging me is who would qualify as black. Abagond said you have to be part African to be acceptably black. Would people be upset if an Australian aborigine posted a photo of himself? How about those who personally identify as black but don’t look the part, as with some multiracial people?”
Linda says,
I think anyone who wants to claim their “African” heritage or identify as “black”, gets to participate in BlackOutDay –this was supposed to be a unifying activity. To be quite honest, I’m not sure why you would question such a positive thing.
To me, this whole campaign was something that was open for all to participate in… unless I’m reading it wrong, I don’t think there were any rules or restrictions placed on anyone as far as “quantity of black”
I’m sure if Adriana Lima posted her picture to participate, no one would have anything to say since she has always openly and proudly claimed her African heritage.
Aborigines call themselves black and God knows, if anyone should be able to celebrate their dark features, it’s them– since genocide was committed against them based on their skin colour.
As to this statement:
“Kiwi@ Just something to think about before getting too excited about “unity”. One cannot expect others to stop stereotyping you as a monolith while at the same time expecting certain standards of conformity within your “community”.”
Because I know that you are a long time commenter and not a troll, I have to say — I’m surprised you even said this.
After all these years on this blog, you should know by now that Especially in the USA, white American/white society does not make an exception for multi-racial people– “brown is black”, and “black is black” –
as the Indian grandfather found out the hard way, when he was mistaken for a “young skinny black guy” and was body slammed and partially paralyzed
http://www.firstpost.com/world/indian-grandfather-assaulted-in-alabama-why-hinduism-101-for-us-cops-wont-help-2101567.html
Black, mixed-race, or brown people coming together to celebrate “unity” would never stop white people from stereotyping any group
anti-blackness is real — being judged as “monolithic” group by white people will not stop happening in this country, no matter what black people do — so that’s a moot point.
People are judged by their skin colour and/or “race” well before anyone can open their mouth to give their self-identification.
Haven’t you gotten that message yet on this board, Black/Brown people are not in control of their image in the western media
and if Black/brown people want to ever see “positive” images of ourselves on TV, in the media period — We have to be in control of that
so, something as small and spontaneous as “BlackOutDay” was a moment when black people were able to steer their image on a media platform for a day — it’s about feeling empowered, Kiwi
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Mary Burrell @sharinalr: That was a nice post
Agreed… well said Sharina
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@Mary and Linda
Thank you both very much.
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@Kiwi
I repeat: Black folks aren’t here to be PROPS for you to pull out in order to silence other Black people who are criticizing you about your anti-blackness. Period. Get your shxt together and fxcking address your anti-blackness and arrogance. I don’t give a fxck if it’s conscious prejudice or unconscious bias. The only thing that is making you sound suspect is YOUR words. Period.
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@Lifelearner and Justme
Thank you for seeing what I see. Something in the milk ain’t clean about this Kiwi person. He needs to address his latent anti-blackness. Period.
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@sharinalr
“You’re excused.”
Honey, I said excuse YOU. You’re excused.
“Your accusation of deflection is hilarious. Are you going to accuse me of being non-black or anti-black next? It is not a deflection for me to tell him to ignore you. Someone needs to be adult enough to let it go before it spirals out of control.”
Excuse you? Trust and believe If that’s what I wanted to say I would have said it. I know you’re Black, boo. How “adult” and “mature” of you to ASS-ume that’s what would say next. I’m not questioning your blackness. I have no reason to. But I AM questioning your ability to see anti-blackness when it’s clearly right in front of your freaking face. You sound detached from reality. Why don’t you try dealing with it. Mmmkay?
“Similar to the situation with Linda you have a need to get upset for no real reason.”
Excuse you? Who in the fxxk are you to dictate what Black people should and should not “get upset” over? I don’t care who you feel like being a token Black friend to, you are are not the supreme commander of all Black people. I seem to be able to grasp that Black people aren’t a monolith…unlike you, who seems to think that you should be able to dictate what other Black people should and should not get upset over.
” If you can’t see the latent anti-blackness that Kiwi is exhibiting that is YOUR problem, not mine.”—If you think it is your problem then you made it your problem. You seem to be in the act of making a mountain out of a mole hill.”
I repeat: If you can’t see the latent anti-blackness that Kiwi is exhibiting that is YOUR problem, not mine. It is what is. He’s exhibiting latent anti-blackness. The question is whether you’re going to deal with that reality, minimize it, or outright ignore it. Your choice.
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@Veronica
“Honey, I said excuse YOU. You’re excused.”—Aww looks like you have a habit of repeating after you have already been burned.
“Excuse you? Trust and believe If that’s what I wanted to say I would have said it. I know you’re Black, boo. How “adult” and “mature” of you to ASS-ume that’s what would say next. I’m not questioning your blackness. I have no reason to. But I AM questioning your ability to see anti-blackness when it’s clearly right in front of your freaking face. You sound detached from reality. Why don’t you try dealing with it. Mmmkay?”—I didn’t assume. I asked you a question. Notice the question mark. I am going to assume you lack an ability to read. You did not question my anti-blackness. You are mad I told kiwi to ignore you.
“Excuse you? Who in the fxxk are you to dictate what Black people should and should not “get upset” over? “—Again you are excused honey. I am not dictating who black people should be upset with. For starters I was talking to you (unless you are now black people) and secondly, read it slowly, I said you get upset for no real reason. A far cry from a dictatorship.
“I don’t care who you feel like being a token Black friend to, you are are not the supreme commander of all Black people.”—Is your not caring why you are mad right now?
“If you can’t see the latent anti-blackness that Kiwi is exhibiting that is YOUR problem, not mine. It is what is. He’s exhibiting latent anti-blackness. The question is whether you’re going to deal with that reality, minimize it, or outright ignore it. Your choice.”—Then let me slowly say this to you again. It is only a problem you assume I have. Assumptions won’t get you every where with everybody. 🙂
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@sharinalr
Furthermore, just because what I wrote seems to gone over YOUR little head doesn’t mean I’m necessarily “upset” or “angry”. So stop raising the specter of that “irrational, angry black person” stereotype.
Second, as a human being, I have every single right to have access to ALL my human emotions any and every single time I want to. ALWAYS. Even if I WAS mad, I’d have every right to be as a human being who is responding to unwarranted, systemic oppression from myriad groups of people. I do not have to short circuit my humanity for the likes of you. Ever. If RIGHTEOUS anger bothers you, then don’t ever read or respond to my shxt, because if I ever DO ever feel angry then I’ll gladly and openly SAY SO and I’ll also be expressing it any way I want to and at any goddxmn time I please. Period.
Black people are constantly discouraged from feeling shxt and we’re habitually shamed and silenced for daring to feel anything. Why? Many black people ARE admittedly angry about systemic racism and anti-blackness. So what? As human beings who feel emotions, they have every right to be. Anger is a legitimate, justified, and healthy response to centuries of injustice and invisibility.Got it? No one is ever “angry just to be angry” anyway. They’re angry in response to something. That’s not irrational. What’s irrational is refusing to deal with that reality. Period.
http://neocolonialthoughts.wordpress.com/2013/11/09/some-thoughts-on-bell-hooks-on-angry-women-and-postcolonial-feminism/
::Eyeroll:: Anyway, now that I’m done correcting your ignorant self, for the record, this isn’t about being “upset.” I don’t think Kiwi is a bad person, and as I said, I have seen him challenge anti-blackness before. I just think he’s exhibiting latent, unconscious anti-blackness and it needs to be addressed. If he acknowledges it and says he’s going to take some steps to work on it then I’m cool. That’s it and that’s all. The end.
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@Veronica
What you said didn’t go over my head, but it is obvious that you anger has made it impossible for you to comprehend what anyone else says. You being black has no merit on that. You trying to make it about you being black is suspect to me. It is never a good look for a black person to claim racist oppression when they are acting out for no reason. What racist act am I placing against you that has you talking to me like you are? Oh that is right….I told an Asian commenter to ignore you.
Face it. You have an attitude problem and if I decide I want to advice someone to ignore you…be darn sure I will.
“Anyway, now that I’m done correcting your ignorant self, for the record, this isn’t about being “upset.””—You weren’t correcting me honey. You were trying to excuse your attitude, because there was simply nothing to correct me on. But a lie don’t care who tell it.
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@sharinalr
Yea, no.
Like I said, I have no reason to question your blackness. But I AM questioning your ability to see anti-blackness when it’s clearly right in front of your freaking face. You sound detached from reality. Why don’t you try dealing with it. Mmmkay?
“Is your not caring why you are mad right now?” I’ll use your words “Let me slowly say this to you again. It is only a problem you assume I have. Assumptions won’t get you every where with everybody.”
Gee golly gosh, I didn’t know you were in my room with me and clearly able to ascertain my emotional state. Such a neat trick! Oh wait! You aren’t! ASS-uming, now aren’t you. Question mark or no question mark, keep your peabrained ASS-umptions to yourself.Considering the fact that you don’t know me and you’ve been off the mark every time, you should consider staying in the shallow end of the pool where you clearly belong. Instead of obsessively fixating on and incorrectly trying ascertain my emotional state why don’t you try figure out why you have an inability to either see or substantively address someone’s latent anti-blackness when it’s obvious to other Black people. And THAT’S not an assumption, that’s a fact. Feeling stupid? You should.
If you can’t see the latent anti-blackness that Kiwi is exhibiting that is YOUR problem, not mine. It is what is. He’s exhibiting latent anti-blackness. The question is whether you’re going to deal with that reality, minimize it, or outright ignore it. Your choice.
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@Veronica
Save it. I am not going to read your sorry excuses and lack luster explanations. Bottom line is you have a serious attitude problem. In the words of one of my all time favorite songs:
“I know you’d like to thank your shyte don’t stank
But lean a little bit closer
See that roses really smell like boo-boo
Yeah, roses really smell like boo-boo”—Outkast
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Not to mean this is becoming a repeat session and I stand by what I already said. You just need to actually read it.
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“What racist act am I placing against you that has you talking to me like you are? Oh that is right….I told an Asian commenter to ignore you.”
Considering the fact that you don’t know me and you’ve been off the mark every time, you should consider staying in the shallow end of the pool where you clearly belong. Instead of obsessively fixating on and incorrectly trying ascertain my emotional state why don’t you try figure out why you have an inability to either see or substantively address someone’s latent anti-blackness when it’s obvious to other Black people. And THAT’S not an assumption, that’s a fact. Feeling stupid? You should.
I’ll use your words “Let me slowly say this to you again. It is only a problem you assume I have. Assumptions won’t get you every where with everybody.”
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Yes,it certainly is becoming a repeat session. So instead of obsessively trying to tone police me and obsessively and incorrectly try to ascertain my emotional state why don’t you try figure out why you have an inability to either see or substantively address someone’s latent anti-blackness when it’s obvious to other Black people. And THAT’S not an assumption, that’s a fact.
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@Veronica
Goodnight honey. You are in your own little world.
“And THAT’S not an assumption, that’s a fact”—Sorry but it is still an assumption because based on what I said you can only gather that I don’t see him as a troll or a bad person. Not that I can’t see his anti-blackness. A fun fact though….your several paragraphs are riddled with deflections. You know what you accused me of?
Anyway sleep well. 🙂
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@sharinalr
And you STILL sound detached from reality.
Instead of obsessively trying to TONE POLICE me and obsessively and incorrectly ascertain my emotional state why don’t you try figure out why you have an inability to either see or substantively address someone’s latent anti-blackness when it’s obvious to other Black people.
Night night to you as well, boo boo…the fool.
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because this post is supposed to celebrate POSITIVE images of black/ African descended people,
I will do my part by posting current pictures of people I feel don’t get mentioned or much attention in the major American media for their accomplishments
Alia Atkinson, Jamaican – World Swimming Champion –
First black woman to win a world swimming title after she won the 100 metre breaststroke
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@Linda
Thank you for the pic and the information. I love seeing women of African descent do well!
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Veronica, no problem!
trying to do my part by giving a “big Ups” to black/brown people who don’t get their due recognition, especially if they play in activities dominated by white people.
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Gabby Maiden, American
First black female competitive snowboarder
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Lia Neal, American
Olympic swimmer who won Bronze medal as part of the 4 x 100 m Freestyle Relay team at 17 y/o (in 2012)
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Everyone focuses on Oprah, but now meet the 2nd black female billionaire
Folorunsho Alakija, Nigerian (Yoruba)
started as a secretary at a bank, now owns an oil field, and has business interests in fashion, gas, and printing
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Sharina wrote:
“Whites deny their problems. They say a “they did it too” or point the finger at everyone else. We need to be better. We need to acknowledge and face it and fix it. We have followed their ways too long to only end up being the poster children for when it goes wrong. ”
*********************************************************
My original comment never made it out of moderation. It’s just as well…. I’ll try again.
It’s not Kiwi’s job to seat himself at the head of our table, metaphorically speaking,
Bill Cosby said some disparaging things about Black people that didn’t go over very well with all of us, but imagine the outrage if Jay Leno or Mel Gibson had said what Cosby said.
Who died and elected this dude with the authority to talk down to us about our unity. Had this gone down off line it’s safe to say that in some circles the outcome would have not been pretty for your problem child.
I don’t think he’s a good person because he’s written or said some things here against white supremacy/racism. I don’t think he’s a good person. I think he has some deep rooted issues, perhaps unconscious concerns, that really needs to be uncovered, not just with Blackness but also with females in his own ASIAN ethnic group, which ever one that might be.
I do find your relentless defense of the problem child curious, or strange, But that’s your prerogative.
Did you not find his initial responses (weak dodges) and continual catty retorts with zero substance (..can’t read, trying to use King as a road block, etc) to the charge of his overbearing arrogance, curious? Not to mention his insincere apology. Clearly you and I have different ideas on what constitutes a good person. Or even a trustworthy non-Black ally.
And yes, of course we can always agree to disagree – – a common sense approach for two similar but not identical parties for maintaining the peace.
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@Just Me
“It’s not Kiwi’s job to seat himself at the head of our table, metaphorically speaking,
Bill Cosby said some disparaging things about Black people that didn’t go over very well with all of us, but imagine the outrage if Jay Leno or Mel Gibson had said what Cosby said.
Who died and elected this dude with the authority to talk down to us about our unity. Had this gone down off line it’s safe to say that in some circles the outcome would have not been pretty for your problem child.”
YES! You broke it ALLL the way down.Thank you.
“Clearly you and I have different ideas on what constitutes a good person. Or even a trustworthy non-Black ally.”
Pretty much. Someone who is exhibiting arrogant, overly intrusive behavior and latent, patronizing anti-blackness in this manner IS NOT a trustworthy non-Black ally. I’ll be giving him the side eye until he can fully acknowledge and be accountable for it. In my personal opinion [not knocking yours] I actually don’t really think he’s a bad person. But I dxmn sure don’t feel he’s trustworthy. He needs to acknowledge and address his anti-blackness. Period.
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Veronica said:
” I love seeing women of African descent do well!”
Me too.
Linda and Veronica, if you allow me, I’ll try to take my seat, as a brother, in the celebration of the emerging triumph of Black/Brown women worldwide.
The saddest parts are not yet totally overcome but the road to their triumph, – indeed, the ultimate symbol of Humanity’s triumph over the evil – despite all the odds, is there, to see and follow.
Sport heroes, entrepreneurs, younger or older and… geniuses too! Look at the following example from UK:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2965362/Is-Britain-s-cleverest-girl-Ten-year-old-accepted-university-course-study-maths-degree-despite-not-going-school.html
P.S.:
I’ve made more comments about this case in:
and
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@Veronica
I repeat….You are in your own little world. One you pick and choose to come out of.
For starters, I simply stated you have an attitude. You do. Your repeated “excuse me” is enough to constitute it as such. The follow up name calling solidifies it. You can deny it all you want, but the proof is in the pudding. Repeating what you think I have an inability to do is just that. I have been on here long enough to see plenty and address plenty. And if you had a tad bit of understanding of what lifelearner was actually saying you would have a tad bit of understanding why I never addressed it. Though you seem to only respond to what is patting you on the back and less of what is telling you you are wrong.
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@Just Me
I get all that. I get your issue with Kiwi and why. I have had tons of conversations like this with Matari so I know the run down. I am not asking you to forgive him or like him. That is with you, but what I am saying is we need to stop and address some issues. Maybe this is not the thread, but at some point it needs to be done.
I know kiwi has some deep rooted issues. He has in the past dealt with racism towards Asians as well as growing up around people who are racist or have a negative view of blacks. I could go on, but that is his dirty laundry. Though a person having problems does not make him a bad person. We all have problems.
“I do find your relentless defense of the problem child curious, or strange, But that’s your prerogative.”—-I generally will defend most if not anyone on this blog. I have done it from the time I started here. Lifelearner read me when she said “giving one a pass due to commenter alliances doesn’t help anyone to learn or grow.”
“Did you not find his initial responses (weak dodges) and continual catty retorts with zero substance (..can’t read, trying to use King as a road block, etc) to the charge of his overbearing arrogance, curious?”—If you want the honest truth I only read the post you directed me two after you quoted them and then his post that started my defense. I have yet to go through and read all that inbetween. So I can’t give you an answer to this right now. Of what I did read I initially considered it racist. I was not shocked, but hurt.
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@ Just Me
I will read the inbetweens while in church and give a better response from there.
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@Just Me
“Did you not find his initial responses (weak dodges) and continual catty retorts with zero substance (..can’t read, trying to use King as a road block, etc) to the charge of his overbearing arrogance, curious?”—I can’t find those things curious when I already had an idea what he was doing and why. For starters it was very clear he read what you said, but he was also avoiding answering the questions too. Could be because he was not sure how to defend what he said. Could be that he could not defend what he said. The king part was likely an effort to draw attention away from the situation at hand. It is a common technique.
As I told Kiwi on open thread, I really was planning on doing nothing more than defending the charge of him being called a troll. Nothing more and nothing less. Though things did not work out as I planned. My bad.
If you would like to read my response to kiwi it is more detailed to my thought pattern. If not ask me what you will like and I will answer it.
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Y’all gotta be kiddin me?
Kiwi is NOT a troll.
Troll recognize troll and Kiwi has always looked unfamiliar to me.
cut the crap and get back to work.
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@ Thwak
It’s just the ravings of a fool.
To those who cannot think, EVERYBODY else is a troll.
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Thwack
People have gotten banned for announcing being a troll. Might want to keep that to yourself.
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People have been shot and killed for having money and NOT having money.
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@munubantu
Thank you!!! I really appreciate it. Off to check that article right now. ;- ) c
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@ Veronica
You REALLY need to take it down a few notches.
Please read the comment policy.
Your comments are moderated till further notice.
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@ Veronica
Comments deleted for not addressing a person by their right name.
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Today there’s a protest going on where Asian Americans are trying to be allies and fight alongside Black people to demand police accountability for Black lives. Check out #JusticeforAkaiGurley
“Esther Wang @estherxlwang · 5h5 hours ago
When we fought for Kang Wong, a Chinese elder abused by the police, it was Black communities who stood w us. -Betty #JusticeforAkaiGurley”
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@ Abagond
I would like to post a picture on this thread of a person I admire very much. Is it ok and how do I go about doing this? It goes along with this thread and she has accomplished so much.
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@Speak Out
For some reason I feel this needs it’s own thread. Non-black allies like Asians and Hispanics are a part of our fight. They may have said some anti-black things too at some point, but should we be quick to dismiss them as allies for that….Are we not all subject to the illnesses of white supremacy? Divided we fall.
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@sharinalr
I couldn’t agree with you more. I have to admit that as a woman of color sometimes I have found myself reacting in a knee jerk fashion to someone who has antagonized me. Which has me saying things race/culture specific that no where near addresses the short comings of the individual before me but instead throws everyone else under the bus tight along with the offender. Does this mean I can’t stand beside people different from myself and feel their pains, bask in their joys or allow empathy to flow from me to them in times of need or crisis. I will say No, it does not. I would also like for abagond to dedicate a thread to this very issue.
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Don’t forget, this entire #blackoutday could be part of a general marketing campaign by the social media conglomerate who may be seeing their conscription rates topping out?
In a world where the marketing cartel has monetized everything (including your anger and rage); trying to increase social media participation rates among existing demographics should be expected.
In addition, this “lets post pictures of nothing” behavior promoted dovetails nicely with the coming post literate society.
*be advised*
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Conscription???
Oh yeah, I forgot. You’re such a *super genius* when it comes to intellect and the use of language – which means you can literally assign totally different meanings to words (at your lone discretion, of course) regardless of what the word actually means to the rest of the world.
*be advised*
(smh)
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Just Me
Conscription???
Oh yeah, I forgot. You’re such a *super genius* when it comes to intellect and the use of language – which means you can literally assign totally different meanings to words (at your lone discretion, of course) regardless of what the word actually means to the rest of the world.
——————————————————————————————
The above comment is a perfect example of why nonwhite people should avoid each other. Instead of asking a question, we just go on the attack.
I used the word “conscription” because thats actually what internet technology is doing and where it is taking us. The reason so many people don’t notice it is because of the exploitation of a basic flaw of human nature.
The best way to get someone to do something is to make them think they CHOSE to do it.
That was a major subplot of the move The Matrix.
If you create the correct “architecture of choices”, you can get a person to do exactly what you want them to do; and they won’t even notice you forced them to do it.
Why?
Because they think they CHOSE to do it.
I have agency!
Lawyers, detectives, prosecutors, salesmen… use this technique all the time and lots of black people are dead or in prison unjustly because of it.
How many of you have applied for a job lately?
Increasingly everything is done online before you can ever get any human interaction; see how you’ve been conscripted into using internet technology?
You better have your OWN phone too!
Ive had people confess they started a Facebook Page because employers (covertly) require potential employees to have one.
So yeah, I used the word “conscription” because thats what I meant.
There is a creeping digital fascism that is slowly infecting daily human interaction.
But as per the usual, most people don’t see it because (cough) they think they CHOSE to participate.
“Choice is an illusion created between those with power and those without.” — The Merovingian Matrix Reloaded
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Of course this methodology precedes the modern internet, and is bigger than just “race.” If you can define the “choices” then you control the outcome. All ties into the Hegelian Dialectic, but also reaches back to Machiavelli and Sun Tzu and even farther back.
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Thwack.
Sometimes you are quite funny and entertaining, especially when you’re trying to be very smart. Okay… I guess your ideas about conscription makes some of us anomalies in that we have NO interest or need of SIGNING UP for a facebook, twitter, or any other social media account. I get your LEARNED ELDERS OF ZION point.
I know the whole world is a staged production. It’s all smoke and mirrors/horse and pony. What’s so amusing is that you think you’re pretty much the only who sees the feints and the slights of hand in the world where precious little is real, or true…
like you.
🙂
You had to watch the Matrix to know that the world is not as it pretends to be?
LOL
Tell Josh and Cinque I said ‘hi.’
Thanks for the amusement.
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@sharinalr
Basically I think anti-blackness is toxic. It’s the worst when it comes from whites because they have the social, political, and economic privilege and power to implement it as a a governing structure. But anti-blackness can also cause major psychological and emotional distress when it comes from non-black people of color, because the people feel SHOULD be your natural allies aren’t. Many seem to recognize the racism their groups face but don’t understand the particular anti-black racism Black people face. Nor do many non-black people of color understand how they can be complicit with white supremacy by engaging in anti-blackness and colorism.
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@Emme
Very well said.
I have found that many of them are aware of the racial hierarchy. More so than they let on. The topic of Asian women and their desire to marry white men comes up very often (I know I know). I honestly believe this white man desire is because they are aware that marrying white places them in a higher position in the racial hierarchy and society than marrying any other group.
Now we can ask non-blacks to address it, but I would hope we can ask blacks to address this as well. With many blacks they hide behind the “To better the black community” talk as a means to let slide much of their anti-blackness talk. I have found it more subtle and not so straightforward in these cases.
“Many seem to recognize the racism their groups face but don’t understand the particular anti-black racism Black people face. Nor do many non-black people of color understand how they can be complicit with white supremacy by engaging in anti-blackness and colorism.”—I agree.
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@Candy
I agree. I feel like we all need to really talk to each other. There needs to be open dialogue to gain some level of understanding. Dialogue that does not include isolating one group because of misunderstandings or worse yet no real idea or understanding at all. We have common goals and unless we acknowledge those goals and collective try to reach them…we get no where.
.
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@Thwack
Yes, because books have never sown the seeds of destruction and stupidity *cough* Atlas Shrugged *cough*.
I don’t know about you, but the internet has been a gateway to far more written material for me to read than anything else. I suppose the fact that the nearest library is 15 minute drive away has something to do with that.
You sir are a postliterate citizen extraordinaire.
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Kiwi,
the struggle you described on Open Thread is real
and as I mentioned to you, it’s an internal one that won’t get solved anytime soon because it’s complicated.
Here’s an article you might like and find interesting which touches on the topic you were trying to discuss — when black people don’t conform to standards of the group and feel isolated
this author, Kasai Rex, writes about his years of trying to fit in with white people by joining a white Frat house because he felt rejected by his black peers (and about his struggles to find himself):
“I was the black guy in a white frat – Nothing about the racist OU chant surprises me. I spent years ignoring white prejudice just to fit in”
http://www.salon.com/2015/03/16/my_shucking_and_jiving_years_i_was_the_black_guy_in_a_white_frat/
In my teen years, I went to a private school held up by many as the best in the area, but I quickly learned I wasn’t like the other boys, virtually all white and upper-middle to upper class. I spent those years being reminded of my blackness, mostly in negative ways. This alienation — coupled with static from black friends in my neighborhood for “acting white” — properly knocked my racial identity off its axis. Attempts to thrive simultaneously in both the black world at home and the white world at school soon gave way to a misguided quest for assimilation into the latter. I fried my scalp with relaxer to straighten my hair. I lusted after white female classmates, while denying that anything black could be beautiful.
If I’m honest with myself, there’s still work to be done, and I still find myself struggling to find equilibrium occasionally. When even the most well-meaning friend/co-worker/girlfriend throws the “You’re the whitest guy I know” at me, it’s like Nat Turner’s ghost taps me on the shoulder and says, “Just do it.” And conversely, whether it’s at the barbershop or at a cookout, I still get the “You ain’t a real n&&ga ” look/line/whatever. (Was it my skinny jeans that gave it away?) I want to ask: If I walked up in Barney’s, would I not get followed, scoped out, harangued, even after droppin’ hard, legally earned stacks, only to be stopped and frisked once out on Madison Ave., cuz I should know better, right?
It’s taken me d’mn near 30 years, but I’m finally learning that what other people think of me is none of my d’mn business and that chasing white approval, even as a means of survival, is a fool’s errand indeed.
Today, I want to go back and tell my younger, frustrated, confused self that it’s going to be all right. That I’m enough. “Don’t let these Lacoste-wearing motherf’ckers get you down. Your black features are beautiful. Your heritage is f’cking awesome!”
As you can see, it’s not just a problem within the black American community–it’s an “American” problem that also stems from white American psychosis.
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@ Emme
Thwack did call himself a troll upthread. He seems to be a coincidentally black man. I’m sure he’ll correct me if I’m wrong.
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I prefer Tamara Nopper over Scot Nakagawa. She gives the credit of Afro Pessimistic Thought to whom it is due (Frank Wilderson, Jared Sexton, Saidiya Hartman, and others), while being a scholar in her own right.
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@Emme
Thank you so much for the links. I look forward to reading them. I must admit…much of this I was unaware of, but I take blame for not searching harder.
“You can feel free to correct me if I’m wrong, but are you talking about internalized white supremacy, colorism, and misogyny within the Black community?”—You threw the big gun question out at me….lol. I guess it is a matter of where to begin. All of it most certainly should be addressed, but I suppose my focus was internalized white supremacy. Though looking back I may have touch on colorism in previous posts. Though for some reason misogyny gets overlooked. Hmmmm…..
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@sharinalr
Internalized White Supremacy and Colorism are the products of cultural domination/Westernization/Americanization, but I’m personally at a loss as to how to address Black misogyny. There’s a recurring strain of valuing submissiveness and pontificating about a woman’s “place”, but Black misogyny isn’t systemized/institutionalized outside of the Black church and some other Black organizations. I also don’t understand where these sentiments come from since I don’t feel the same way. The Bible seems the most likely culprit.
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I think it’s scholarly neglect more than outright appropriation. Many of the political ideas of the blogosphere are learned through the grapevine. It’s a lot like a glorified game of telephone; you learn the vocabulary but because you aren’t directed towards the source material these political ideas aren’t well contextualized or deeply understood. In the long run such shallow politics can become considerably detrimental.
The effort to frame and comprehend the specificity of Antiblackness is called Afro Pessimism. Correct me if I’m wrong, but searching for the term yields no results on his Nakagawa’s site.
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Comments by Emme deleted. She is a Veronica sock puppet.
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@Abagond
I figured she was, but I also figured….hey she came back with a better attitude then why not treat her as such. Oh well….
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@ sharina
I was thinking that too, but my forgiveness for sock puppets died with Asplund.
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“There’s a recurring strain of valuing submissiveness and pontificating about a woman’s “place”, but Black misogyny isn’t systemized/institutionalized outside of the Black church and some other Black organizations. I also don’t understand where these sentiments come from since I don’t feel the same way. The Bible seems the most likely culprit..”
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I don’t know TOL. The Bible/Black Church seems mighty tame compared to what present Amerikan culture is delivering through its music industry, (or Black Music – HIP HOP – industry run largely by white music execs)
Compare today’s music (in regards to romantic feelings about Black women) with yesteryear’s (50 – 70s) output. The sentiment of My Baby & Baby Love, Give Your Baby a Standing Ovation, etc has devolved into misogynistic fare about bitches, hoes, freaks – and worse.
Can’t blame this devolution of womanhood on the Bible or the Church. I think it comes from a rash of BROKEN family STRUCTURES, high divorce rates, one parent households, an attitude of if it feels good it’s cool and especially the overall co-opting of Amerika’s African descended people into WHITE western values, lifestyles, thought and pathologies. This is the natural outcome of a people (us) trying to assimilate into a society that is largely bent towards our oppression, mistreatment and destruction.
How are young boys supposed to grow up valuing Black women if they never see their fathers in the home providing a living example on a day to day basis on how that is done? The same can be said about young girls not seeing their mothers loving and supporting their fathers.
Our collective (confused) minds must be de-westernized, restructured toward our African roots, philosophies and such if that’s possible, in part, by forming OUR OWN COMMUNITY/EDUCATION centers.
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@Taleoflions
I think we all are at a loss of how to really address it. I use to think if we find the root of the cause we can address it, but I am not sure where the root actually is. Also I don’t think too many blacks see it as a priority issue to address.
I would blame the bible and religions that see women as second class citizens, but the bible does not seem to segregate women that way. Could be my terrible interpretation of it, but women were key parts in it. Books dedicated to their dedication to the lords. Though for blacks I think they take cues from the white Americanized culture we live in. A culture that seems to spread outside of the U.S.
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@Linda
Thank you for posting that link and story. Even if it was for Kiwi, I enjoyed reading it none the less.
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@Abagond
You mentioing asplund gave me a sick reminder. Asplund use to pretend to be pro-black before he pulled out all of his racist venom.
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Have to agree with this point.
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JM
How are young boys supposed to grow up valuing Black women if they never see their fathers in the home providing a living example on a day to day basis on how that is done?
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Maybe black females should value themselves by not plastering sexual images of themselves all over the internet, being loud and rude and generally un-lady like…?
Dressing like whores, sleeping with thugs, having children out of wedlock…
Today women (in the Western world) are out of control and they wonder why men don’t want them.
Females need to learn what a LADY is and try to act like one.
*now bring the flames*
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@thwack
On one hand, it’s not out of the realm of possibility for a social media company to whip up a hot new hashtag in hopes of more monetization. With black America possessing over $1 trillion in purchasing power, that’s a ripe target that anyone would be a fool to pass up.
On the other hand, it’s a bit foolish to think that something created to uplift the black community as a whole can be dismissed as just another marketing campaign from the white Powers That Be™.
What gets me is that a lot of people go in on black women over these things, yet remain absolutely silent in the face of things like “ain’t no fun if the homies can’t have none” and men like Too Short.
A lot of black men have mistaken machismo for masculinity and without a strong black father presence in the household as a moderating force, these black men are jumping off the deep in and into a world of hurt.
You’ve seen Baby Boy, right? Jody’s the archetype of a man who bit into machismo, hook line and sinker, and thought it was masculinity.
Black women needed that moderating force, too, as an example of what a man who cares deeply for the love of his life looks like. Without that, they’re either taken in by the Jody types or start taking up the “thot” role as a response to black machismo.
@abagond
Could you kindly 86 that last comment? Open HTML tags do strange things to a comment.
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@ Mack Lyons
POOF!
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@ sharina
If the image is already on the Internet, just put its URL on a separate line. Michael Cooper did that here:
Otherwise email me the picture and I will upload it here and give you the URL.
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“Maybe black females should value themselves by not plastering sexual images of themselves all over the internet, being loud and rude and generally un-lady like…?”
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Thwack
For a person who sees himself as intelligent, you disappoint.
Children generally mimic what they see in society (and in the home) going on around them. So how are troubled young Black females supposed to value/respect themselves when they grow up devalued, unsupported and forgotten by absent fathers – and with mothers espousing that they don’t need (or want a man) a male head of household father figure in the home. No mother can be both a mother AND father. Girls suffer when they don’t have a strong bond/relationship with a good father.
Children of single parents are apt to become single parents. The cycle just continues when many children are having children that are having children, all growing up in homes without all the benefits of TWO solid parents.
We are in a state of crisis!
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Thwack
Today women (in the Western world) are out of control and they wonder why men don’t want them.
Females need to learn what a LADY is and try to act like one.
So these women in the Western World, who’s example do they need to follow? You are beginning to sound dangerously like Biff lol
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I banned Thwack:
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abagond
I banned Thwack:
https://abagond.wordpress.com/comment-policy/#comment-279243
Sh1t. Only had a few unpleasant exchanges with Thwack but always thought his caustic responses were laced with underlying wry, dry humour i.e. he was a bit of a p1ss taker trying to get a rise out of everyone. Isnt that what that comment was about?
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@Just Me
Preach.
@Omnipresent
Pretty much. From the moment he landed here, it was only a matter of time before the other shoe dropped.
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Mack:
Pretty much. From the moment he landed here, it was only a matter of time before the other shoe dropped.
I suppose…. I was only half joking when I said he sounded like Biff.
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jeesum Abagond
you stay busy cleaning house this week 🙂
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Sharina, glad you enjoyed –the articles I put out are truly for everyone’s consumption
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So i am thwack is banned good riddance he was a misogynist “POS” and he hated black women and black people, he was a miserable self loathing black person if he really was black i have no idea. I didn’t find him humorous or intelligent just pathetic and sad. Hope he never returns. But someone just as horrible will take his place.
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^^^ So i read that^^^
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“So i am thwack is banned good riddance he was a misogynist “POS” and he hated black women and black people, he was a miserable self loathing black person if he really was black i have no idea. I didn’t find him humorous or intelligent just pathetic and sad. Hope he never returns.”
@Mary B. THIS!!! After a long, rainy and tiresome week I have finally received some Great news-Happy St. Pat’s Day (or whatever you wanna celebrate), folks!!
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ROFL @ thwack’s ban.
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@ sharinalr, YayuSsss!!!
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