Andrew Hawkins (1986- ), an American football player, is a wide receiver for the Cleveland Browns. Like other Black sports figures in the US during the past few weeks, he protested against police brutality. On Sunday December 14th 2014 he walked out onto the field wearing a shirt that said:
“Justice for Tamir Rice and John Crawford III”
Tamir Rice, age 12, was shot dead by police in November; John Crawford, age 22, in August. In both cases:
- White police officers rush up on a Black male with an airgun and shoot him down.
- The police investigate themselves.
- A grand jury makes a decision whether to put the police officers on trial.
In the Crawford case the grand jury has already said there will be no trial.
Jeff Follmer, head of the Cleveland police union, demanded an apology:
“It’s pretty pathetic when athletes think they know the law. They should stick to what they know best on the field. The Cleveland Police protect and serve the Browns stadium and the Browns organization owes us an apology.”
and later:
“He’s an athlete. He’s someone with no facts of the case whatsoever. He’s disrespecting the police on a job that we had to do and make a split-second decision.”
and:
“I think the nation needs to realize that when we tell you to do something, do it, and if you’re wrong you’re wrong, and if you’re right, then the courts will figure it out.”
Hawkins did not apologize:
“I was taught that justice is a right that every American should have. … To me, justice means the innocent should be found innocent. It means that those who do wrong should get their due punishment. Ultimately, it means fair treatment. So a call for justice shouldn’t offend or disrespect anybody. A call for justice shouldn’t warrant an apology. …
My mom taught me my entire life to respect law enforcement. … Unfortunately, my mom also taught me just as there are good police officers, there are some not-so-good police officers that would assume the worst of me without knowing anything about me for reasons I can’t control. She taught me to be careful and be on the lookout for those not-so-good police officers because they could potentially do me harm and most times without consequences. Those are the police officers that should be offended.”
And:
“… the number one reason for me wearing the T-shirt was the thought of what happened to Tamir Rice happening to my little Austin scares the living hell out of me. And my heart was broken for the parents of Tamir and John Crawford knowing they had to live that nightmare of a reality.”
Calvin Williams, the Cleveland police chief, said Follmer did not speak for him:
“It is important to note that the comments made by Mr Follmer do not represent the views of the Cleveland Division of Police. … Mr Hawkins was certainly well within his rights to express his views and no apology is necessary.”
Samaria Rice, Tamir’s mother:
“[The Cleveland police] need to apologize to me before demanding apologies.”
See also:
So glad you did this post. I am glad he stood his ground and did not apologize. This cop is off his rocker. Those are two shootings that were in no way justified in my mind.
Calvin Williams was getting so much heat I thought he had made a coon move, but I guess I was mistaken about those that were attacking him.
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A call for justice is what everyone should want – including the police. As Jeff Follmer personally took offense to that, it reveals that he is motivated more by white guilt rather than by an affirmation of justice served.
Calvin Williams has to walk a tightrope, acknowledging that both the police union and private citizens have a right to voice opinions, and managed to diffuse the tension by making it an issue between two citizens / citizen groups, not the Cleveland Police Department.
So is it true that Follmer is no longer head of the Cleveland Police Union? What do we know about the new incoming president?
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Editorial Cartoon:
with comment:
http://www.cleveland.com/darcy/index.ssf/2014/12/chief_williams_defends_hawkins.html
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@jefe
I was not aware he was suppose to leave at all, so two very good questions.
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[…] Source: abagond.wordpress.com […]
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I am sickened by the comments of the police chief. My ire for whites like this gets greater and greater each time one of them open their mouths. How can you be a law enforcement officer, supposedly a symbol of morality and courage and say something so stupid and unimportant compared to the negligent killing of a 12 year old boy with an air gun.
This man should always open with a comment memorializing the little boy when speaking about this incident. He should have been a real man and said something like, “The shooting of Tamir was a horrible tragedy and if we could have known what we know now this incident could have been avoided. Our hearts and our thoughts are always and foremost with the family of Tamir. We also respect Andrew Hawkins right to express his opinion and that he empathizes with the family. However we want the Cleveland Browns and the Cleveland community to know that we are doing everything in our power to make sure something like this horrific tragedy never happens again, to any child.”
This is how a HUMAN BEING talks to another HUMAN BEING who is giving his support to a family whose child was murdered by a trigger happy maniacal cop.
Is it really that hard to not be RACIST or an ASSHOLE?
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From the police stand point I can see the fear of not wanting to be labeled like other cops and a fear of people feeling the need to attack them and put their life in danger. But on the other hand I feel some bring it on themselves, as they are not pushing for justice. They choose to keep their mouths shut when wrongs happen.
I am just in shock that anyone with a conscience would as for an apology when these two victims deserve justice.
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Ask*
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@Sharina,
The new president-elect basically echoed Jeff Follmer.
Incoming Police Union President Steve Loomis Chimes in on Andrew Hawkins’ Tamir Rice T-Shirt
http://www.clevescene.com/scene-and-heard/archives/2014/12/15/incoming-police-union-president-steve-loomis-chimes-in-on-andrew-hawkins-tamir-rice-t-shirt
He apparently made a statement before the Chief of Police Calvin Williams made his.
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@Jefe
Thanks for the link. It is very unfortunate to see another bigot in full effect. Why do these people believe that you have to be in a law profession to know the law?
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You only have to be in legal profession to manipulate law.
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Have the United Brotherhood of Cleveland Racist Pigs demanded an apology yet from the Police Chief? Perhaps the Police Chief is also unqualified to dip into politics?
Even President Obama has weighed in on the rights of Professional athletes (eg, LeBron James) to make similar statements. Does the Cleveland Police Union President also suggest that the POTUS has no business dealing in politics and demand the President to apologize to him?
The Cleveland Browns management refused to give Follmer the light of day. The Police Chief has refused to dignify that request, divorcing it from any official viewpoint of the Police Department. How much political capital does the Police Union have to take this any further? to whom? Browns fans?
What we will likely see is other police unions joining up with them. Maybe the one for Beavercreek / Greene County, Ohio, for one. Or has the Chief of Cleveland Police silenced them?
It seems like Time Magazine has also tried to silence them.
(http://time.com/3635242/athletes-protests-garner-ferguson/)
BTW, I am not saying that Cleveland Cops are all racist, just the ones elected to head the Police Union. It is Unions like these that are active in making sure they stay majority white.
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I get what you are saying but I feel like if you say anything bad about cops some, particularly the racist, try to make it about all of them. They may actually be getting support off the idea that people mean all cops. The truth being no one is talking about all cops. I just have to smh on this b one and applaud Hawkin’s for standing his ground.
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That Jeff Follmer and his ilk are the real “thugs” this is just arrogance and true a$$holery. Andrew Hawkins was quite eloquent in his comments. Follmer asking for an apology,he should be the one apologizing for being such a feces bag.
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@Mary Burrell
“his is just arrogance and true a$$holery.”—100% agree. When I first read about this I thought…”The nerve of this hmmm…”. I get this attitude of “yeah the kid was shot! so what!”
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@ sharinalr: Yeah, that Follmer is a racist and that why folks are protesting because of oppresive cretins like him.
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It’s hard for me to comment on this any more. I’m not shocked by any of it. White people have majored in death-dealing ever since they started leaving Europe in numbers. I’m not sure what people expect. Obviously there are whites who try to be different but the culture is what it is. Sure, blatant racism is now taboo but that is because the situation is different. After labor is over, no need for hollering, just feed and hush the baby. When people had to be killed to steal their land and resources the inferiority of the other races was supported by both science and religion. Now, after the spoils have been obtained, we are all one human race so don’t ask back for anything. There is a reason North America, Australia, India, South America and most of Africa have European official languages and there were places with names like Rhodesia (after Cecil Rhodes) and America (after Amerigo Vespucci). The languages tell the story.
“Their inner thoughts are on their homes forever;
their dwellings from generation to generation.
They even name their lands after themselves.
But humanity [wə·’ā·ḏām] cannot last, despite its conceit;
it will pass away just like the animals”
LOL, I’m always remembering Bible quotes though I’m not religious and don’t regularly read it. I guess it’s because I had a Christian upbringing.
Anyway, the point I am making is that, taken in context, the state of our existence is perfectly predictable. If you mentally condense the groups to individual people and the centuries to years the sense of continuity should be more evident. The white person attacked and then locked you up in a dungeon under his control. It’s not a hotel and the aim was never to show you hospitality. Over time you’ve fought for better and better living conditions but you’re still in a dungeon and have to be wary of the guards.
OK, so with the stage set Foolmer’s comments are not “shocking”. If they are, it’s only because they represent a momentary scratch in the usual veneer of hypocrisy. Police are not there to “protect and serve” but “when we tell you to do something, do it”. The implication, given that his statement was in response to Hawkins’ protesting the shooting of unarmed people, is that police may justifiably shoot you for not being obedient enough even if they are in the wrong. Although, as Levar Jones’ case demonstrated, they may also shoot you for being too readily compliant. What a mess.
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Sometimes it’s a “Catch 22” with law enforcement one can be compliant and still get killed.
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@ Origin
“Sure, blatant racism is now taboo but that is because the situation is different.”—I don’t see it as taboo anymore. I think it is upfront and in your face as of late and most whites make excuses for it. “Oh blacks think everything is racist etc.” They seem to have this attitude of “I dare you to say something.”
For me the shock is how blunt it is. Especially for someone waking up.
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“For me the shock is how blunt it is. Especially for someone waking up.”
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
If only WE would ALL wake up get over the shock and then deal appropriately with this paradigm where they can get away with killing us for meager reasons.
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@Just me
It is not easy and I feel sorry for those blacks that refuse to at least partially wake up. Denial can be a hell of a thing. I was shocked to learn equally how many blacks are in this state as well. Black friends I knee half my life and used to love to tell me how non pro black I was end up saying racism is not that bad or it does not exist to me.
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*I have known half my life*
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“….end up saying racism is not that bad or it does not exist to me.”
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Sharina, I believe that reality/truth eventually reaches most of us. Some sooner, and some others later. I think the hard part for a lot of us is the helplessness we feel when it comes to our inability to pull our sleeping siblings from their slumber.
On the other hand, how can I be that bothered that some of us haven’t seen or experienced the depths of white supremacy/racism? In a way, I sometimes wished I lived in that bubble of unawareness. I imagine life there is less painful/stressful.
I guess ignorance can be bliss… up until a point.
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Is it really that hard to not be RACIST or an ASSHOLE?
For the average white, yes.
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@Just me
Very true. I sometimes wish I was still asleep. Though I don’t fashion myself fully awake either.
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Andrew Hawkins comes in the living spirit of former Cleveland Brown football great/present-day black activist Jim Brown.
They don’t make strong black athletes like the ones in the 1960s and 70s anymore. Can you image pro sports athletes like LeBron James, Kobe Bryant, Kevin Durant, Dwight Howard, Adrian Peterson, Arian Foster, Cam Newton, Robert Griffin III, Stephen Curry, Chris Paul, Carmelo Anthony, etc. defending Andrew Hawkins’ words? Also imagine these great athletes defending their unapologetic brother (Hawkins) who has been verbally attacked by a white guy who does NOT have black people’s best interest at heart. That would be powerful, right? Unfortunately, will have scary, apologetic black athletes. Good examples are Howard and Peterson. Adrian Peterson apologized to society by saying: “I won’t ever use a switch again.” http://www.theguardian.com/sport/2014/nov/21/adrian-peterson-nfl-switch-apology On Twitter, Dwight Howard, who tweeted “free palestine”, apologized to the Jews and social media by saying: “I apologize if I offended anyone with my previous tweet, it was a mistake!” Howard continued by saying: “Previous tweet was a mistake. I have never commented on international politics and never will.” http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/07/14/dwight-howard-free-palestine-tweet_n_5586076.html
The old saying is: “If you don’t stand for something you’ll fall for anything.” Unfortunately, 98 percent of black professional athletes are falling for anything. Yes, the round mound of no NBA championship ring Charles Barkley has fallen and submitted to white supremacy. Shame to those cowards.
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Seems like they are being forced to show their hand and they’re afraid they’ll lose the game.
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@Origin’s
I was not surprised at all by Follmer’s comments. But I was a bit impressed by the Cleveland Browns refusal to take action, the Cleveland Police Chief’s act of diffusion and even to a slight extent Obama’s earlier comment. For the past 30 years, the govt, police and corporations have been yielding to these people.
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@Abagond,
Since Follmer said
You should have at least a one sentence blurb about how the Browns reacted.
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“I think the nation needs to realize that when we tell you to do something, do it, and if you’re wrong you’re wrong, and if you’re right, then the courts will figure it out.”
Absolutely. A police officer is not just another citizen. They have the authority to issue lawful commands that people are required by law to obey.
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@ Origin
LOL, I’m always remembering Bible quotes though I’m not religious and don’t regularly read it. I guess it’s because I had a Christian upbringing.
LOL, I know what you mean.
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I’ll give a quote by Columbus to illustrate why the rest of the world’s people fell to whites almost without fail. Referring to the Amerindians:
“they are artless and generous with what they have, to such a degree that no one would believe him who had not seen it. Of anything they have, if it be asked, they never say no, but do rather invite the person to accept it, and show as much lovingness as though they would give their hearts … And they know no sect or idolatry; save they all believe that power and goodness are in the sky …
And it comes not because they are ignorant: on the contrary, they are men of very subtle wit, who navigate all those seas, and who give a marvelous account of everything … And as soon as I arrived in the Indies, in the first island that I found, I TOOK SOME OF THE BY FORCE … Their [Spanish] Highnesses may see that I shall give them [The Spanish Crown] AS MUCH GOLD AS THEY NEED … AND SLAVES AS MANY AS THEY SHALL ORDER TO BE SHIPPED, and these shall be from idolators.”
It is truly indicative of the revisionist world we live in that there is a commemorative day for this despicable murderer and brute.
Let me paraphrase:
‘I can’t believe how nice they are LOL. Nobody in Europe is like this. And it’s not because they’re stupid since they don’t get lost as sea. Stealing everything they have and making slaves of them will be like taking candy from a baby. Don’t they know that’s what I’m here to do?’
Whites explorers behaved in this inhumane manner towards basically all people wherever they found them. However, the people to whose shores they came often treated them with at least a basic respect as people. In retrospect, that was their weakness; not predicting the psychopathy of the visitors and being human themselves. Essentially the same dynamic exists today in race relations.
Later, the Spanish Crown issued “El Requerimiento” asserting their right to other’s land. In part:
“But if you do not do this [acknowledge the church as world ruler], and maliciously make delay in it, I certify to you that, with the help of God, WE SHALL POWERFULLY ENTER YOU COUNTRY, AND SHALL MAKE WAR AGAINST YOU in all ways and manners that we can, and shall subject you to the yoke and obedience of the Church and of their highnesses; we shall take you, and your wives, and your children, and shall make slaves of them, and as such shall sell and dispose of them as their highnesses may command; and we shall take away your goods, and shall do you all the mischief and damage that we can, as to vassals who do not obey, and refuse to receive their lord, and resist and contradict him: AND WE PROTEST THAT THE DEATHS AND LOSSES WHICH SHALL ACCRUE FROM THIS ARE YOUR FAULT, and not that of their highnesses, or ours, nor of these cavaliers who come with us .”
How perverse? WE are going to attack you, rob you, slaughter you, enslave you, then BRAZENLY LIE and say it’s ALL YOUR FAULT! This is a royal declaration from 1513 but I’m just showing that nothing has changed as far as white thought patterns and behavior towards others is concerned. It’s the same song and dance that we hear in 2014 on every scale whether it be the justification of historical wrongs against African Americans or the stalking and shooting of a teenager who just bought candy. There is an underlying consistency. It’s almost as if there’s one evil core personality acting through generations of individuals.
Sharina:
“For me the shock is how blunt it is. Especially for someone waking up.”
By opting not to prosecute so many policemen in the aftermath of the shooting incidents a message has been sent. I’m guessing that the guy was emboldened by the atmosphere of vindication surrounding the Crawford, Garner, and Brown cases. BTW, the prosector in the Brown case has admitted to presenting a witness he believed was lying (and he’s not going to bring charges of perjury). What a nice guy (if you’re not black with a traffic violation).
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2014/12/19/1353052/-Under-pressure-St-Louis-prosecutor-Bob-McCulloch-admits-he-called-witnesses-who-were-lying
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wow. i’m glad to see these athletes showing support for the victims of police brutality. People want them to stay silent and just play on the field and have no opinions. They want to enjoy seeing them on the field but want no part in what actually matters to them or even their well being. just throw that ball, run, jump, score don’t say anything about issues that affect u, ur family, or ur community.
They view these athletes the same way Donald sterling does.
and these ppl are twisted, u want an apology for someone using their right to express how they feel and it’s a problem, but taking someone’s life doesn’t deserve an apology or justice. U make the parents or athletes apologize for reacting but don’t make the people that caused the pain apologize.
“I think the nation needs to realize that when we tell you to do something, do it, and if you’re wrong you’re wrong, and if you’re right, then the courts will figure it out.”
yeah like the courts haven’t gotten it wrong. and how long will it take for them to figure it out, it took them all this time to figure out George stinney was innocent. and then don’t forget to count the brothers and sisters that were in prison for a crime they didn’t commit and were set free after dna evidence proved them innocent. and don’t forget that rich white boy that got off for dui and killed ppl in tx.
“It’s pretty pathetic when athletes think they know the law. They should stick to what they know best on the field. The Cleveland Police protect and serve the Browns stadium and the Browns organization owes us an apology.”
nobody said they know the law we saw the dam vid so are we supposed to believe ur lies over our own eyes. so what if yall protect the stadium they can hire security guards to do that.
One last thing why is it that ppl are so loyal to corruption, u say not all but will hurry up and defend the bad ones and list a million reasons why they shouldn’t have to pay for their wrongdoings. It is as if ppl have some Stockholm syndrome and when anybody tries to speak out against corruption they feel personally attacked. If u are not doing these things this isn’t about u so stop being in ur feelings, if u didn’t kill an unarmed child why defend someone that did as if ur own life depends on it? Until u call out the bad ones without making excuses and say u do not agree with their actions then ur whole not all excuse goes out the window because u choose to stand in solidarity with the bad and birds of a feather flock together so..
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Big Momma…….”Absolutely. A police officer is not just another citizen. They have the authority to issue lawful commands that people are required by law to obey.”
Not if your in fear of losing your life, being beaten, tortured, hung in your prison cell and your family told it was a suicide, not if you put your hands up and one of the little bastards put you in an illegal choke hold and kills you. For God’s sake man people, especially Black men, are afraid to DEATH to comply with these killers. This has been going on since I was a child in the 70’s, Black men are afraid of the police. They are afraid that if they go in the police car they will never make it back to their families, they’ll end up in a field somewhere, die “In custody”….This is not how you police your citizens….this is how you TERRORIZE an entire group of people.
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Origin….I couldn’t agree more with your last post. I have come to realize through the last 25 years the very same things about white people through history and to a lesser extent but still relevant and powerful today. I would make the argument that white colonialism has been the cause for most of our worlds conflicts and destruction of today. I can’t think of a more destructive, culture destroying, genocidal, robbery of property and life that has ever occurred comparable to white colonialism. It is and will be the catalyst for the worlds implosion..and ultimate doom.
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@William Absolutely spot-on commentary, here!!!
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I agree with MZ. Nikita. Spot on.
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@mstoogood4yall
Nice to see you comment.
“nobody said they know the law we saw the dam vid so are we supposed to believe ur lies over our own eyes. “—-IKR. These people act like you need a darn legal degree to know what is going on in a video. There is a plus to hiring security for stadiums as it could create jobs.
I think the more people push back the more cops will realize they are not in control. As I sat and watched The Walking Dead with my husband earlier today it reminded me so much of this crazy cops on a power trip. The cops in the walking dead truly believed that if the cops are happy then they are willing to work harder for the people. I have to wonder if that is the messed up mentality of police for real.
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@ Origin
Well said. I agree in the fullest.
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@William
Yes, Colonialism occurred because the predominant characteristic of white culture is extreme avarice that results in an unrelenting quest for more and more “stuff”.
This Cecil Rhodes quote is great for the extreme way that it reveals the spirit behind the whole enterprise:
“The world is nearly all parcelled out, and what there is left of it is being divided up, conquered and colonised. To think of these stars that you see overhead at night, these vast worlds which we can never reach. I would annex the planets if I could; I often think of that. It makes me sad to see them so clear and yet so far. ”
He “often thinks” of annexing the planets. LOL. I can’t say that I do.
PINKY
Gee, Brain, what do you want to do tonight?
THE BRAIN
The same thing we do every night, Pinky. Try to take over the world
They’re Pinky and The Brain
Yes, Pinky and The Brain
I liked that cartoon!
Anyway, this is why the economics of the world we live in is not based on sustainability but on endless “economic growth”. Given the constraints imposed by the earth, eventual implosion should be the expected. Sustainability and insatiability go together like peanut butter and tuna. Yum. (I hope I’m not insulting any peanut butter and tuna dishes!)
IMO, one thing that can drive unrelenting acquisitiveness is unrelenting poverty that is impossible to completely assuage. If you try to fill a circle with squares of various sizes you’ll always find, along the boundary, stair-stepping gaps that don’t match the curve of the circle exactly. You can place smaller squares in those gaps but you’ll produce smaller gaps that could also accept smaller squares and so on infinitely. As they say, pi is irrational so there is no way to produce a representable factor that truly squares the circle (pi*r^2 where r^2 is obviously a square) though you can get ever closer without ever arriving. An analogous scenario within consciousness could fuel an endless quest. So probably the question is, what does white culture want to achieve that always seems tantalizingly beyond its grasp and is it looking in the right place? Mr. Rhodes would have loved to consume the whole Universe and I bet he’d still want more.
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@Sharina @mstoogood4yall
The arrogance is amazing. Police kill innocent men and then a representative basically tells citizens to shut their mouths about it. They need to apologize for requesting justice for murdered men but nobody needs to apologize much less pay for killing them.
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“I think the more people push back the more cops will realize they are not in control” @Shariina “They need to apologize for requesting justice for murdered men but nobody needs to apologize much less pay for killing them” @ Origin—-THIS!!!!
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“They don’t make strong black athletes like the ones in the 1960s and 70s anymore. Can you image pro sports athletes like LeBron James, Kobe Bryant, Kevin Durant, Dwight Howard, Adrian Peterson, Arian Foster, Cam Newton, Robert Griffin III, Stephen Curry, Chris Paul, Carmelo Anthony, etc. defending Andrew Hawkins’ words?”
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
It’s not just the professional athletes, Michael Cooper. It’s combination of many things, some of which are behaviors that aren’t promoting STRONG black men, communities and RELATIONSHIPS.
That picture you posted of assembled athletes speaks thousands of words on so many levels. Would a similar picture of today’s Black professionals gathering speak as succinctly, as clearly as this picture does?
No! It seems that such assemblies are just about some commercial (making money) or entertaining (aka giving back — charitable) ventures.
Sadly, you’re right. We’re moving in the wrong direction.
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2 NYPD cops shot and I honestly did not have the slightest bit of remorse. I am sorry but what really can people expect. Good cop or bad people are looking at them all the same now.
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These cops didn’t deserve to be executed just because they were cops. An Asian family and a Latino family are mourning tonight. …Oh, and also the Black family of the killer too. Senseless.
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*Coming out of lurker status*
@Origin, thank you for your posts. I can only hope more and more of the diaspora wakes up and realizes that the 500+ years of their savagery, brutal and thug behavior is still prevalent today and they have the temerity to call us savages. They have literally built a white skin ruling hegemony on the murder of millions upon millions of humans and theft of their resources and stand in the face of the world and declare themselves the standard bearer for human civilization.
@All, understand this, what we have witnessed since 2001 is the beginning of their “defense” of their “way of life”. To be sure, we are in the middle of a war and more will lose their lives.
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I don’t know if it’s true as I only saw it at one source but I read that the killer had murdered his girlfriend on Saturday morning. It’s definitely a senseless event and the perp is no hero. It’s horrifying to be targeted because of what you’re wearing.
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@Sharina,
Do you think an outside force could have instigated it?
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@Diasporan
That is what gets me all the time. Whites, as a group, are guilty of more widespread colonization, genocide, and theft than anyone else yet we live in a world in which black people are presented as inherently wicked, mendacious and dangerous. It’s nonsensical and baffling yet through repetition and reinforcement one can begin to accept it. I guess that’s why I’m a bit of a stuck record sometimes. You can’t understand anything without context.
“She tossed her head and passed on. Tom was so stunned that he had not even presence of mind enough to say “Who cares, Miss Smarty?””
-an excerpt from Tom Sawyer
When people start reading books from Chapter 20 we can declare the past irrelevant.
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@ King
They didn’t, but I just can’t feel the sympathy for it. The problem is the protection of bad cops may lead to more situations like this. I really fear that is coming.
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Continue to be a stuck record, context is vital, without it one is literally swinging at the wind…just a fruitless endeavor. Without context it is easy to turn a people against their own best interests as we see with African Americans. The bulk are lost, having mental seizures about not being “racist” against whites all the while they’re “tribe-ing” up as we speak.
“When people start reading books from Chapter 20 we can declare the past irrelevant.”
I often tell people that the white supremacist collective wants us to start reading a 100 page book at page 97 as they quietly revise the previous 96 pages, facts be damned.
Repetition and reinforcement. This is a key tactic in the psychological arm of their warfare against the diaspora.
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@jefe
In that case no. I feel that is was the act of one guy who simply had enough. From my understanding he had killed his gf too. He just was killing to kill, but I have a feeling this will be linked to Ferguson and other things.
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@Sharina,
So you think an individual just snapped? It is the most likely case.
Just thinking about two possible other less likely, but not unfathomable possibilities:
1. Police infiltrating and interfering – hiring a thug to instigate something, selecting Latino and Asian cops, carefully avoiding both blacks and whites This looks unlikely as the perpetrator killed himself (or was he killed)?
2. Someone from outside the USA (or could be inside) engaging a killer to stir up stuff in the already volatile USA.
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If an outside nation wanted to exploit our current powderkeg of a situation, this would be the way to go about it.
That, and actively fund and encourage right-wing militia groups, so you can have a civil war scenario brewing between minorities who are fed up with being treated like dirt and “oathkeeper” types who want to put these people back in their respective places.
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Is it really that hard to not be RACIST or an ASSHOLE?
For the average white, yes.
@Herneith, Ha I was just going to say that.
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Big Momma…….”Absolutely. A police officer is not just another citizen. They have the authority to issue lawful commands that people are required by law to obey.”
@Big Mammy, What’s the matter? Afraid the cops are going to shoot you next. Pathetic. Come talk to me when your sober.
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Not if your in fear of losing your life, being beaten, tortured, hung in your prison cell and your family told it was a suicide, not if you put your hands up and one of the little bastards put you in an illegal choke hold and kills you. For God’s sake man people, especially Black men, are afraid to DEATH to comply with these killers. This has been going on since I was a child in the 70’s, Black men are afraid of the police. They are afraid that if they go in the police car they will never make it back to their families, they’ll end up in a field somewhere, die “In custody”….This is not how you police your citizens….this is how you TERRORIZE an entire group of people.
@William the Conqueror
It’s ok, Big Mammoth has Stockholm syndrome. She doesn’t mean what she’s saying; years of therapy and meds will do her some good.
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@Origin
they were probably not only targeted because of what they were wearing. Or does anybody really believe he would have also killed the police officers if they would have been of subsaharaan african ancestry?
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..SnooZE, @ the boring, useless and fruitless troLLs who constantly pollute and derail this here (informative) blog and their denial of their Obsession with “debating” with intelligent POC (especially Black folk)..UGH, already!!!
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@origin…..”Whites, as a group, are guilty of more widespread colonization, genocide, and theft than anyone else yet we live in a world in which black people are presented as inherently wicked, mendacious and dangerous.”
Unfortunately white powerful men are extremely good at the evil that they do, either that or they have been doing it for so long they are just so darn good at it. They are especially good at getting a SCARED MASSES to believe what they are doing is for a MORAL and JUST cause. They use words like Manifest Destiny or Collatoral Damage or Savages. They get people to write and publish cartoon literature to deify white men who slaughter Indian villages. They get the masses so loyal to a colorful flag so they don’t think about the carnage behind the flag. It is brainwashing, it is nationalism, it is pure EVIL in disguised as GOOD, it is in essence the same entity as the Anti-Christ.
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Booker Dewitt…It’s ok, Big Mammoth has Stockholm syndrome. She doesn’t mean what she’s saying; years of therapy and meds will do her some good.
LMAO!
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@ Jefe
After reading up more on the case I actually believe your two possibilities may be more possible than I originally imagine. He killed himself and it is a matter of how often have black assailants killed themselves after killing etc. On top of that the cops have said they believe it is a revenge killing and are putting out his instagram pictures as proof of this. They are saying they “believe” it is his.
On top of that I read one report that says (and I need to double check to be sure) that a fax was out about him and it just reached the police station too late to stop him. So….how long did they know about this mad man and chose not to act is my question?
And the killing of the girlfriend does not make sense either if his am was revenge for mike brown and Eric Garner. Was she a cop? Was she white? One thing is for sure she is ignored by the media.
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@Jefe
“hiring a thug to instigate something, selecting Latino and Asian cops, carefully avoiding both blacks and whites”—This is a very good point. I a sure he passed several cops on the way from Maryland to Brooklyn New York, so why did he choose this two cops? hmmm….
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I am just learning about the two cops in New York i don’t think this individual is a representative of the protesters and folks marching for justice against police brutality, tragically he was just some lone madman and he took himself out and then i learned he killed a woman who supposedly was his girlfriend. His actions were his and his sick mind alone.
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“so why did he choose these two cops? hmmm….”
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
That neither of the cops killed were White raises my eyebrows!
perhaps:
http://www.wanttoknow.info/mindcontrol
I don’t put anything past those that would do virtually anything to maintain their total control/dominance – by any means necessary.
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@Sharina
You smell a conspiracy? Does seem a bit fishy.
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I made a mistake in my previous post on Ismaaiyl Brinsley in New York the shooter of the two policeman he shot and wounded a woman who was supposed to be his girlfriend she was not killed as i mistakenly posted.
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“They are afraid that if they go in the police car they will never make it back to their families, they’ll end up in a field somewhere”
People afraid of police would minimize contact by not speeding, using drugs, associating and dressing like gangs, stealing, etc I’ll believe people are afraid when they act like it
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@Big Momma
I guess that means if you run into a racist cop then some people need to have bleach creme onboard.
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Big Momma….What world do you live in because it is not the world of the Black man. Police in towns like Ferguson target and pull over Black men, who have not committed any violation or crime, at a rate of 6 to 1 more than any other group. What the fuck are you suppose to do when you are pulled over and have to face a pig racist cop just because you were driving while Black? Before you ask where did i get those numbers let me direct you to the FBI investigation of ferguson…..In 2013, the Ferguson Police Department made 5,384 stops and 611 searches. 86 percent of the stops and 92 percent of the searches were of black people. Only 67 percent of the town’s population is black. The FBI deemed the Ferguson police as discriminatory, no shit sherlock, but only put them on notice and then Wilson went on his racist run down and murder of Brown.
This is how you end up with more Black criminals, more Blacks in contact with racist cops, more Blacks getting shot, more Blacks running from police and so on. This is simple mathematics, my worse subject, but obviously I am not as bad with math as you are.
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@Origin
they were probably not only targeted because of what they were wearing. Or does anybody really believe he would have also killed the police officers if they would have been of subsaharaan african ancestry?
Is it a full moon out tonight? The loons are out in force it would seem.
@eric:
I’m sure you will give us an answer
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@Jefe:
Something about this whole scenario makes no sense. It sounds like a set up of some sort to deflect from the massive protests(mainstream media is not longer covering it as intensely).
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People afraid of police would minimize contact by not speeding, using drugs, associating and dressing like gangs, stealing, etc I’ll believe people are afraid when they act like it
Big Momma, you have just condemned 90 % of the poor whites and especially the hillbillies(shout out to the hillbillies, endless fonts of hilarity) in the U S of A.
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@Jefe
I do, but I am at the same time trying to wait for more information on the matter. One thing is for sure and that is the black community does not condone this act.
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Just Me
The media has been trying to paint the cops as victims and what better way to emphasize this than to get a random black guy to kill an Asian and Hispanic cop. Blacks become vicious cop haters and cops become victims upholding the law.
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Minimizing contact with police is nice in theory but the way this policing thing works is that when they arrest you, you have to stop or they can shoot, bludgeon or strangle you (only partially joking). It is a unilateral decision on the part of the police officer whether to stop you so in many cases your engagement with police will not be by choice. Levar Jones didn’t ask to be stopped for taking off his seatbelt to get gas then shot for reaching for his license as requested. I’m sure if any other random white guy asked him for ID he wouldn’t have complied.
So minimizing contact is based on a prayer when police are armed and legally empowered to kidn… detain you with the threat of lethal violence. This is why we need clearly defined and consistently enforced limitations on police behavior or they start to look like a state-sponsored militia.
(Let’s face it, that’s what they are fundamentally. Police – polis, city – do not have a constitutional duty to protect you just to enforce the law of the city/state, however corrupt. They “protect and serve” an economic and social order whether they’re NYPD officers bashing Occupy Wall Street protesters or Southern slave patrols whipping runaway slaves.)
In fact, without checks, police are more dangerous than criminals because you’re free to ward of anyone else’s attacks with force (unless you’re Trayvon Martin) while you cannot resist police. I find the blatant militarization of police and the rubberstamping of excessive force very troubling and it’s not because I do drugs or steal.
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“This is why we need clearly defined and consistently enforced limitations on police behavior or they start to look like a state-sponsored militia.
….
In fact, without checks, police are more dangerous than criminals because you’re free to ward of anyone else’s attacks with force (unless you’re Trayvon Martin) while you cannot resist police.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Interesting how times (and laws) change. The Black Panther Party of Self-defense found a legal way to protect themselves (and others) with deadly force – even while occupying the California state capitol building from overzealous cops.
The NOI, Black Muslims were another powerful (but unarmed) Black group that made the police/state think 2 – 5 times before taking them on. Now that the nation’s local police have been militarized by the federal government with armor and hi-tech battlefield weaponry, resistance to the police state has been rendered futile…. unless the courts or legislators, or a people’s revolution deem otherwise.
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As far as the two officers killed, as with any senseless violent act, like the ones involving about 1,000 men, women and children shot and killed by the police each year, it was deplorable and I don’t believe any one on this blog would ever condone such a thing, unless in self defense. However lets not let the facts runaway from us like the conservative fear machine and go on a stupid riot.
For one the two officers were not white, they were Hispanic and Asian. Second of all this obviously mentally ill psycho killed his Black Girlfriend FIRST, this negates any ones attempt to make this a racial killing instead of a disturbed person going nuts. Yes he mentioned getting even on his facebook page or whatever but he was in full psychosis at this point. people who go on these disturbed rampages always reach a psychotic state anywhere from hours to days and sometimes weeks before they snap.
This man would have killed someone else for another reason if these latest events weren’t in the news. If people were protesting wallstreet he probably would have killed two stock brokers.
Regardless my heart, my prayers go out to their families and I hope that these officers deaths bring about something good. Whether mental health reform, police policy, etc…
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@Sharina,
But it seems such an unlikely confluence of events that this guy would travel all the way from Baltimore to Brooklyn, NY just to shoot two non-black non-white cops and then commit suicide. Is the message to (white) USA is that blacks just kill people indiscriminately but white cops risk their lives to uphold the law? Whites do not view aberrant behaviour by an individual as individual behaviour, but reflective of the entire demographic (that they assign the person to).
It is not the first time that 3rd or “other” race people have been used by either whites or blacks as surrogate whites or surrogate non-whites/ (“minority”).
Whether it was a fluke or a conspiracy plot, it seems that the assassination of the two police officers has diffused the national anti-police protests for the time being. But, could that not also be the objective of govt intelligence / homeland security groups?
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I really think that the NYPD police union’s snubbing of NYC mayor is really in utter poor taste.
Are they suggesting that the mayor has “blood on his hands”? That actually turns me much more off from the police (at least the police union leaders) than the assassination did, which looks like the act of a lone gunman (whether a conspiracy or not).
I really hope that no mayor or police chief will be bullied by any police union. What Cleveland police Chief Williams said is the right way to address it.
The NYPD has a terrible record of police brutality. The assassination of two non-white non-black police officers does not in any way justify that record of brutality.
And I guess that gun sales will just go up even more. 😦
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“I guess that means if you run into a racist cop then some people need to have bleach creme onboard.”
I’d recommend drivers license and proof of insurance.
“Big Momma, you have just condemned 90 % of the poor whites and especially the hillbillies(shout out to the hillbillies, endless fonts of hilarity) in the U S of A.”
I don’t think 90% of anyone does those things. You also used a racist slur.
“In 2013, the Ferguson Police Department made 5,384 stops and 611 searches. 86 percent of the stops and 92 percent of the searches were of black people. Only 67 percent of the town’s population is black.”
Blacks make up 13% of the population but the majority of basketball players fined for misconduct. Does that prove the NBA is racist? Or does it just mean there are a lot more blacks playing basketball? That’s what’s wrong with “racial profiling” statistics. They’re based on blacks as a percentage of the population, rather than blacks as a percentage of the people who do the kinds of things that cause police to stop people and question them. Not only are blacks more likely to speed but even more likely to drive at speeds considered reckless. Blacks are actually stopped less than they should be.
“For one the two officers were not white, they were Hispanic and Asian. Second of all this obviously mentally ill psycho killed his Black Girlfriend FIRST, this negates any ones attempt to make this a racial killing instead of a disturbed person going nuts. ”
Not everyone who kills a girlfriend is nuts. He might have figured since he’s already going down for murder he’d rather die than go to prison and take a couple more people with him. That’s called “suicide by cop”. His tweets show he was targeting officers. The officers may not have been white but that doesn’t mean race didn’t play a role. Would he have shot black cops ? I don’t know but he didn’t. Also if the hispanic officer had shot someone black you’d all be calling him a ‘white hispanic’ like Zimmerman..
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@ jefe
Black people do shoot police officers dead. It is not nearly as common as the reverse, but it does happen. So it was just a matter of time before an ideologically convenient shooting would take place, one that would allow Whites to reassert the Black Brute stereotype and White innocence.
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Another willfully obtuse comment making (however disguised) apples to oranges comparisons to justify distorted logic. Exactly like DJ.
I wonder if these willfully obtuse commenters are in bed with each other.
Kudos to Abagond for having overwhelming patience trying to respond to that.
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@Abagond,
So you rule out any possibility of conspiracy? This doesn’t look like run-of-the-mill black man shoots police officer dead kind of scenario, but I suppose I don’t know the typical profile of a black male police assassin.
Still, I find it very bad, if not silly behaviour by the various police unions. They are indeed a “brotherhood” of “benevolent association” and are not willing to address valid concerns by the people.
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@ jefe
I am not ruling out a conspiracy. I do not know enough to say.
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@ jefe
The police are like priests: they enjoy (enjoyed) a high level of public trust, yet in the end they protect their own, to an institutionally suicidal degree.
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Big Momma,
“Blacks make up 13% of the population but the majority of basketball players fined for misconduct. Does that prove the NBA is racist? Or does it just mean there are a lot more blacks playing basketball? That’s what’s wrong with “racial profiling” statistics. They’re based on blacks as a percentage of the population, rather than blacks as a percentage of the people who do the kinds of things that cause police to stop people and question them. Not only are blacks more likely to speed but even more likely to drive at speeds considered reckless. Blacks are actually stopped less than they should be.”
Where did you get this from?
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Big momma,
“Blacks make up 13% of the population but the majority of basketball players fined for misconduct. Does that prove the NBA is racist? Or does it just mean there are a lot more blacks playing basketball? That’s what’s wrong with “racial profiling” statistics. They’re based on blacks as a percentage of the population, rather than blacks as a percentage of the people who do the kinds of things that cause police to stop people and question them. Not only are blacks more likely to speed but even more likely to drive at speeds considered reckless. Blacks are actually stopped less than they should be.”
Your comparison is flawed.
Black men make up a larger percentage of basketball players, but they don’t make up a larger percentage of drivers.
Blacks playing bball is not analogous to blacks speeding. It would be blacks playing basketball = blacks driving. Blacks fined for violations = blacks ticketed for speeding.
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A few years ago people claimed state troopers racially profiled drivers because 13.5 % of drivers along a particular stretch of the New Jersey Turnpike were black and 46 % of drivers stopped for speeding were black. The New York Times wrote over a dozen articles condemning racial profiling. The New Jersey Attorney General even accused troopers of being racist.
The DOJ and New Jersey attorney general finally commissioned the Public Services Research Institute in Maryland to investigate. Using high-speed cameras and radar detectors, they clocked the speeds of nearly 40,000 drivers on the turnpike. Three researchers then examined the photos to determine the race of the driver without knowing which of the drivers were speeding.
Results showed blacks were 25 % of speeders and only 23 % of drivers stopped for speeding. Controlling for age and gender, blacks sped at about twice the rate of whites. The racial disparity was even greater for drivers exceeding 90 mph.
Source:
Lange J.E., Blackman K.O., and Johnson B.E., 2001. Speed Violation Survey of the New Jersey Turnpike, Final Report. Calverton MD: Public Services Research Institute.
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Kiwi
“His anus”—dang you beat me to it.
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Interesting. DJ use to make equally as ridiculous comparisons.
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Jefe
“But, could that not also be the objective of govt intelligence / homeland security groups?”—–I would not put anything past them.
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@Big Momma
“I’d recommend drivers license and proof of insurance.”—–And I repeat “I guess that means if you run into a racist cop then some people need to have bleach creme onboard.” Should I put emphasis on racist or will that be a bit too much for you?
Please explain how 1 state represents what the majority does?
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@Abagond
It happened again in Florida not to long after the 2 NYPD, but suspect tried to flee. Cop apologist are posting something a gang stated in another state not related to either case as “proof” that blacks are ordering hits on whites.
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Big Momma……..
How can being Black determine how fast you drive?
That is the single most ridiculous statement, study, whatever I believe I have ever heard. That is absolutely ABSURD, regardless if the study even took place or not! If you believe that Black people drive faster than white people because they are Black or you can’t see that this study is flawed or meaningless you are beyond ignorant.
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As I said in another thread, the willfully obtuse are not seeking edification.
If you engage them, you will be drawn into a spiral of illogical and irrelevant discourse. If you doubt that, what does the number of blacks ticketed for speeding say, on the New Jersey turnpike have to do with Andrew Hawkins, the Cleveland Browns, Jeff Follmer, Calvin Williams, Tamir Rice, Police Labour Unions, who should be delving in politics, etc.
Once called out on their derailment to an irrelevant topic, they will steer it to an equally irrelevant topic using illogical reasoning.
A responsible commenter will admit when they steer something off topic. A willfully obtuse one will just switch to something else or get upset if you don’t retort to their off topic illogical comment.
That is what sbxxxx did.
Unless you want to set up them up for banishment, don’t bother. Even so, they will just reincarnate.
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@jefe
For everyone one banned 2 come back.
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To put focus back on Andrew I think he really used two of the best situations of police murder to advocate. They are not as inflamed as Mike Brown and Eric Garner, yet they are both victims.
The request of an apology just show the racist mind set of those individuals.
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Jeff Follmer needs to have several seats.
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@ Brotha
A stadium full of em.
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“what does the number of blacks ticketed for speeding say, on the New Jersey turnpike have to do with”
William claimed blacks were afraid of police. I said people who were afraid of police would try to minimize contact by not speeding. He said police target and pull over Black men, who have not committed any violation. I said blacks speed more. Solesearch asked where I got it from. So I told her.
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“Coincidentally, it relates to why Big Momma keeps bringing up black criminality. To him, crime is a black thing.”
People claim police are racist because of disparate number of blacks arrested, shot, etc. It’s only reasonable to point out that the disparate number is due to a disparate crime rate. If you don’t want me to point it out then stop making the false claims.
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Yes, the Black man, who is scared of the police, who gets arrested more than anyone, who gets KILLED by cops more than anyone, who gets beat more than anyone, who gets searched more than anyone and who doesn’t trust any white based institution….SPEEDS PASSED THE POLICE LACED HIGHWAY MORE THAN ANY OTHER GROUP. AS I SAID, RIDICULOUS!
Listen I grew up in a Black family, in the Los Angeles area and I am in Black areas of L.A. as many as 4 or 5 times a month for hours at a time and I can tell you with certainty, Black people drive way too fucking slow, same with Latinos…They are so afraid of getting pulled over and being confronted by the police. Yes some of the reasons are not all because of racism, some of the reasons are because they have unpaid tickets, warrants, defective cars, etc…This is however due to a huge unfair discriminate system that makes fixing your car, paying a ticket or going to court impossible for many. New studies have compared the cost of tickets and the bump in cost after they go to warrants to other countries and our system creates a snowball affect that can DESTROY lives of our poorest people. What group are affected by poverty more than any other..Black people. It has NOTHING to do with their skin color but everything to do with the SYSTEM.
Big Momma, by the way I was at one of my white friends today and it was wonderful to hear him use the word Nigger and Beaner…..This is a man who grew up in a community that was 83% white, 10% Latino and less than 1% Black. He has been racist his entire life, just like his father before him and his father before him. His brother is racist as well. These guys have no idea what it is to be Black, they have no idea what Black people are like, they got all of their education regarding other cultures from FOX news and their parents and friends. Out of the 3 cops I know 2 are full blooded racist and even brag about beating up Niggers….so as you go about your blind dreamland world where cops are white nights and racism is a 200 year old term, there are people running this country who have the power to murder and put you in prison for the rest of your life and who do this to everyone BUT they do it 6 times more to Black people and that is TYRANNY! It is up to the GOOD PEOPLE of this world to stand together with those who get treated worse than we do or who are suffering due to a system that mostly white people created.
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@William:
Why are you friends with this racist, and a blatant one at that?
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Hernieth…..”Why are you friends with this racist, and a blatant one at that?”
That is a very good and fair question Hernieth and to tell you the truth I was expecting it. I hate to use some old cliches but it really is “a long story” and it ends with, “we don’t get to pick out friends”. I wasn’t sure if I was going to share this with the group but one of the things I wanted to bring here was pure unbridled honesty. What really goes on behind the walls when people are with others who share the same skin color. Whites in America are so used to hearing other whites talk like this it really becomes white noise to them and they come to groups like this or go on political blogs and deny that whites today are racist. Well in my experience I would say that the percentage is around 50% are some degree racist.
Back to my friend because I believe I owe you some answer to your question. After I moved from Los Angeles as a kid and my Mom left My Black step father she met another white man who made a decent living and he was a bookie on the side. We moved from a lower class very diverse area to an upper middle class area that was 83% white and about 10% Latino and less than 1% Black. Talk about the beginning of an identity crisis. In 7th grade i met my best friend and we hung out all the time and as a young man he never led on that he was prejudice. When we got older and started working for the same warehouse and going out for beers afterward he became more opinionated and started using racist slurs. I told him I didn’t like it and he did respect me enough to not say those things around me, if he slipped he would apologize. You see him and I had already been through a lot together by the time he started using those words and he was my best friend. I couldn’t not be his friend even though he is extremely ignorant when it comes to people different from him. He is also homophobic, doesn’t like Mexican people, a republican and loves talking about the Asian invasion as well but he doesn’t do it all the time, it is brought up from time to time. He is like all the rest, he gets his information from TV, from his father who I also found out is very quietly racist and grew up in Utah where there are actually 3 Black people altogether, how can you dislike someone you know nothing about? We do get into heated debates but we have to end them fast because we have gone to blows before on 2 occasions.
My second friend is from the same area and we became friends when I found out we were working at the same warehouse on the night crew where both our fathers friend hired us on. He did it for all his friends kids and this is how having mostly whites in management or ownership positions leads to whites having more opportunity than Blacks, who own little or no business’s and don’t hold a lot of management positions where they can get their friends kids jobs. Again him and I started hanging out and going fishing, smoking pot, drinking beer, eating mushrooms, you know “normal stuff”…LOL. At some point he used a racial slur around one of our Black coworkers who he actually was friends with. I again asked him not to use that language around me and he didn’t for a long time. However as he grew older and more cynical after his failed marriage he would use racial slurs words when talking about politics or when watching the news. This was the first time I have seen him in about 6 years so he must have forgotten a lot about me.
So I have friends and family who are racist or they tend to say racist things from time to time. My brother can be racist sometimes but he does have a reason, not an excuse but a reason. At 18 years old he was jumped by BlackGang Members and they broke his nose in 24 places (shattered) and as he got older and his nose had problem after problem he started taking it out on Blacks and he became a big time stereotyper. He doesn’t use racist slurs but he is always pointing behavior of Black people and how they are different than white people.
So unless I want to disavow my family and old friends I just accept them and I ask them not to act that way around me. Hernieth I would think most everybody has family or friends who are racist, who hate whites, who disrespect their parents, who drink too much, who beats their wife, etc…
We don’t get to pick our friends, it just happens.
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@WtC,
Do your white friends have any non-white friends?
I would expect that your brother, after having a black stepfather, would not brandish all blacks with the same brush. He would know the difference.
You talk about your racist friends, but who do you associate with more? Do you have an outlet for this angst other than this blog?
I have a very racist brother and grew up with / encounter many nakedly racist people, but I don’t associate with them much.
But then again, I removed myself and placed myself in a place with a very different ethnic and racial dynamic.
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Hernieth…I do want to add to my last comment that I would never befriend a person who I knew was racist. I would be cordial if he was a neighbor or a client but if I knew the things I know now about my friends, I definitely would not have spent time with them and we would have been acquaintances maybe but not friends. My other friend is in Colorado now, a few states away and we have not seen each other for 10 years.
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Jefe…..As far as I know my friends have no white friends but us three amigos have not hung around with each other for 10 years.
Let me also say that even though they are racist, it is a rare conversation piece. We have never been able to speak about these things as they know how I feel. We were working and partying buddies and we grew up together. By the time I realized that they really do harbor dislike for people of color I had already formed a close brotherhood with them, they were part of my family. Our mothers were each others second mom. It is complicated thats for sure but like I said we talk on the phone now every once in a while but we don’t hang out anymore.
My brother is not the intellectual type, he does not like to analyze anything outside of x-box or fishing stuff. He sees things in a black and white format. He sees Black kids celebrating after making a play in flag football game in which his son plays and he thinks Black people only care about themselves and not the team, they are showboaters. I try to argue that for 350 years blacks were not meant to be heard, they could not dress the way they wanted, they could not go to white areas, etc…When they began to feel safer and more empowered they made sure that whites heard them, saw them and could not do a damn thing about it anymore and he just doesn’t want to hear it he just sees it one dimensional. He has the typical white racist view that white people don’t act that way but Black people do and he doesn’t want to hear that it can all be traced back to 400 years of white abuse.
Jefe other than those two friends and some of my family members I do not associate with any racist but I do see it all the time on social media, during my work and so on…as a matter of fact both my clients and the homeowners at my job today were all white and all racist! I heard several Asian comments and racist Obama jokes on his phone.
I could never rebuke my brother, I love him too much so I will continue to try to get through to him. He was also very young during the time my mom was married to J.D.. He was 4 when they married and 9 when they divorced.
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@WtC,
How is that possible in the USA? The only persons I met like that in the USA were recent non-white immigrants who spoke no English.
Anyhow, that statement is not even true. Are YOU not their friend? 😛
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Jefe,
“How is that possible in the USA? The only persons I met like that in the USA were recent non-white immigrants who spoke no English.”
Plenty of black people have no white friends.
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“I could never rebuke my brother, I love him too much so I will continue to try to get through to him. ”
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Hey William,
You do know that parents “rebuke” their children all the time, right?
And that the Christ often rebuked his disciples when they were in error?
So, why do you see rebuke as something that shouldn’t be done if you truly LOVE someone??
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@Solesearch,
Yes, I know that. I was being a bit satirical as, WtC is the friend of those that he claims have no white friends.
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Jefe and Just me……How is that possible in the USA? The only persons I met like that in the USA were recent non-white immigrants who spoke no English.
I am sorry Jefe I made an error, I meant to say, as far as I know my friends have no Black friends.
It was late and it was a very long busy day and week.
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@WtC
That is even more interesting. NONE of your friends have any Black friends? Even your Black friends? or do you have only white friends, none of whom have black friends?
Do you live in Vermont or Hawaii or something?
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Just me…Maybe I used the word Rebuke incorrectly. What i meant was how could I discontinue my relationship with my brother. Actually like my comment says we I do try to explain things to him all the time but it is difficult when someone does not want to accept any other version of reality but their own.
Even though this is a cop out I do know that there are different types of racist and racism. There is the full blown racist who literally hates other people for their differences, whose ideology is get out and that “Black people are stupid because they are Black.”
Then there is the racist who doesn’t hate Black people but thinks that Black people are lazy, they all commit crime, they should act more like white people think they should and so on.
There is learned white racism where the person is not racist but he says racist stuff sometimes he is unaware of. He uses words like minority or mixed people are so nice looking “Was your Mom white?”.
Then there is the ignorant political racist who again don’t hate people of color but BLINDLY follows white wealthy racist politicians who create systematic oppression, inequality and segregation with their complete and utter disregard for the poor or people of color and stand at the podium in front of the country stating how the poor need to pull themselves up and dust themselves off like all the rich fat white men did…all the while passing legislation that places road block after road block in front of these people and condoning a system that clearly is still oppressive and in many cases almost impossible for men and women to get out of the mire just to get back to the bottom so they can help themselves.
So even though I hate to break it down I see all of these things in people and I see when someone hates a person and when someone is just ignorant and scared. Fear is responsible for most of the worlds conflicts and it creates racism or racist who really don’t on a one on one basis does not hate anyone but the moment they see the news about a Black man robbing a liquor store they place themselves in that shop owners shoes and they start blaming the entire Black community for the actions of one desperate man.
Anyway this is only one mans opinion, experience and sharing so it may not be right but this is what I see.
Hey everybody MERRY CHRISTMAS, HAPPY KWANZAA, HAPPY HOLIDAYS, HAPPY HANUKKAH, HAPPY AGNOSTIC OR ATHEIST WEEK . Really I just wish you a good day and a good week and thank you for all of your comments and questions and for letting me be in the room..God Bless.
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Jefe you asked me if any of my friends have any Black friends? I figured you were speaking about the two friends I spoke of in my comment in question, my two racist friends. I was not aware that it was a blanket statement regarding all my friends. Besides I am self employed now and have been concentrating on my business for ten years now and believe it or not I am not the charismatic, party DUDE that i used to be. I finally grew up and I really don’t socialize like I used to but I do have lots of friends from 10 years of being in the real estate and construction trade but we are not close like my childhood buddies. Or we used to be…..
Now that we have that cleared up…the answer is NO….Just kidding, yes my friends have Black friends and my family has Black friends and some of my family is biracial. When I say my family is racist I am referring to the type of white person who make lightly racist comments from time to time. Like after the Brown verdict or non indictment the crowd in Ferguson started to run around and throwing rocks and my Mom said, “Here “they” go again, what a bunch of idiots”. While I know what she meant, it was offensive and racist. One of my Moms best friends at church is a very successful Black woman and she would never use vulgar racist slurs but she does make racist comments every now and then but she doesn’t believe they are racist. My brother does the same thing and he doesn’t believe they are racist comments, he believes he is just making an observation.
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^ Maybe you can collect all of those “mildly racist” sayings that you hear all the time that people think are not racist and do a guest post on it.
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