Ferguson, Missouri in the US is a Black township of St Louis. It is where Michael Brown, hands up, was gunned down by the police in broad daylight. The police let his body lie there for four hours. That was five days ago, August 9th 2014. Protests, mostly peaceful, have followed every day since.
Ad Hoc Committee for Justice on Behalf of Michael Brown
OUR DEMANDS:
1. The officer involved in the shooting death of Michael Brown be IMMEDIATELY identified.
2. The same officer should be immediately fired and charged with murder.
3. The Ferguson Police Department “Protocol Handbook” be distributed throughout the Ferguson community.
4. The racial composition of the Ferguson Police Department should reflect the racial demographics of the community.
Another country: Protests were met with a violent police crackdown. Last night was the worst yet, like it was Iraq or Jim Crow Alabama, like a country with no right of peaceful assembly or freedom of the press:
- The police rolled down the street in armoured vehicles. They pointed guns at peaceful protesters. They used flash grenades, tear gas, sound cannons and rubber bullets on protesters.
- The police closed down a McDonald’s, violently arresting a reporter from the Washington Post and another from the Huffington Post. They were not doing anything wrong. They were not resisting arrest. The police also tear-gassed reporters from Al Jazeera America and took down their cameras – even though there was no violence coming from that direction.
- The police arrested a St Louis alderman, Antonio French, who has been steadily tweeting from Ferguson.
Police lies: The police say they were merely defending themselves – people were shooting, throwing rocks and Molotov cocktails. The press saw no such thing. Internet video from last night shows the police attacking peaceful protesters.
The police have not arrested or even named the killer cop.
The police have not interviewed the main eyewitness, Dorian Johnson. Thus their “investigation”. (After four days the FBI took it upon themselves to interview him – not their job.)
Militarization: The police are awash with military gear from the American wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, stuff meant to destroy an armed, military enemy like the Taliban. And they are turning it on Ferguson! Like it was not part of America. It reminds me of Katrina.
Jelani Cobb, a writer for the New Yorker, was there last night. He noted:
If all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail. If you have a tank every protest looks like an insurgency.
All this shows a mindset of profound contempt, from the shooting of Michael Brown to the endless lies, to meeting citizen demands and questions with violence, to the violation of constitutional rights, to using military hardware on civilians, to not being serious about the investigation. You know, just as if Blacks were, as one Ferguson police officer put it, “fucking animals”.
Like Israel in Gaza there is:
- the disproportionate use of force instead of any serious attempt to talk to the other side,
- excuses of “self-defence”,
- the use of American military hardware on civilians.
People from Gaza were tweeting people from Ferguson on how to protect themselves from tear gas.
See also:
- Michael Brown
- Aiyana Jones – another example of the militarization of the police
- War in Gaza: Operation Protective Edge
- Katrina
- Taliban
- Civil Rights Act of 1964
- The police
The more things change the more they stay the same.
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Looking at the footage taken of Ferguson from last night alone, you would’ve thought it was taken by someone in a foreign land being torn apart by war. But it was happening here in the U.S! The war is against the black community in Ferguson! It has escalated that the police saw fit to use military weapons on unarmed citizens, including reporters! The police there have broken so many laws and violated human rights so badly, you would think the U.N. would have something to say. But this is given the same treatment as Gaza. This is straight up madness!
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White cops should not be policing Blacks, period. White cops and politicians should be involved with whites and leave Blacks and the areas they populate to them to handle as they can.
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Generally speaking, I truly believe that black and white people will NEVER be able to coexist together under one one roof (country). That’s my honest belief on the two people.
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So let me get this straight, the Fergusen police kill an unarmed boy, then in show the whole world how good they are by attacking peaceful protesters?
This is clearly a blatant signal that the police state has arrived in America. It’s no different than China.
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@abagond
Like Israel in Gaza there is:
the disproportionate use of force instead of any serious attempt to talk to the other side,
excuses of “self-defence”,
the use of American military hardware on civilians.
People from Gaza were tweeting people from Ferguson on how to protect themselves from tear gas.
……………………………………………………………………………………………………………
Click to access Homeland.pdf
PDF
U.S.-ISRAEL HOMELAND SECURITY COOPERATION
For more details, visit http://www.aipac.org/strategicpartner
U.S.-ISRAEL HOMELAND SECURITY COOPERATION
2013
In order to improve both nations’ homeland security efforts,
the United States and Israel signed an agreement in May
2008 to increase their science and technology cooperation.
The agreement covers a broad range of areas. Washington
and Jerusalem have increased their information and
personnel exchanges so that experts from both nations
can learn from each other. They also work together to
enhance the security of physical and online infrastructure.
And, the two nations have conducted research together
in order to better protect themselves against the threat of
nuclear, chemical and biological attacks.
DID YOU KNOW?
In May 2010, 50 retired Generals and Admirals wrote to President Obama, highlighting the
value of U.S.-Israeli cooperation. “American police and law enforcement officials have reaped the benefit of
close cooperation with Israeli professionals in the areas of domestic counter-terrorism practices and first
response to terrorist attacks,” the letter read
“The answer to that broad question is very clear of course. There is no other country
that shares the same values and overarching goal to allow others to live in peace. We share
the same threats where nations wish to obliterate our way of life and our very lives from the
face of the earth. We are both democracies with the messy argumentative style government
that allow all persons to have a voice and a vote. Our only friend in a very dangerous part of
the world. We share many bonds and each needs the other.”
— SHERIFF LARRY AMERSON
Calhoun County, Alabama
……………………………………………………………………………………………………….
http://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/regionals/west/2011/10/26/local-police-chiefs-head-israel-for-antiterror-training/6JomF1uDE3312nTwPXSKzK/story.html
Police chiefs from Newton, Framingham, and Belmont headed off last weekend for a weeklong counterterrorism seminar in Israel, funded by the Anti-Defamation League.
They are joining a dozen other senior law enforcement officials from the Northeast to network and get first-hand advice from Israeli security experts.
Though there have been no successful terror plots carried out in Massachusetts since the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks, according to the federal government’s Worldwide Incident Tracking System, officials say the trip is necessary to keep law enforcement up-to-date on terrorism prevention techniques.
……………………………………………………………………………………………………….
http://www.presstv.com/detail/2012/08/10/255432/us-police-now-israelidhs-trained/
Slowly, every police department in the United States, at the behest of the Department of Homeland Security, is being trained by Israeli groups.
As part of this training, there is an increased move to use of military uniforms, armored vehicles, heavy weapons, illegal surveillance, lying to the people, press and courts and systematic interference in the electoral system
………………………………………………………………………………………………………..
I quoted the AIPAC document (pro-Israel: The American Israel Public Affairs Committee) and the Boston Globe article first as some might object to an Iranian source (pressTV) though it rings true. American law enforcement officers ARE training in Israel. Therefore the parallels you noticed to Gaza are not coincidental.
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You can always tell that something is wrong when the police begin gassing the media who are covering the protests, and then dismantling their equipment.
“Move on! Nothing to see here!”
http://boingboing.net/2014/08/14/video-of-ferguson-police-gassi.html
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There’s a clear difference among the two groups.
Black and Young:
http://www.thewire.com/politics/2014/03/people-including-cops-view-black-kids-less-innocent-and-less-young-white-kids/359026/
White and Young:
http://pdcnaux.org/uploads/3/2/4/3/3243873/4313749.jpg?383
Obviously, one group is well-protected and the other is prejudged and well-harassed.
I’m just keeping it 100!
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I was watching the news on my lunch break (2 am) last night and I thought I was watching the war in Gaza… it took me a good few minutes to realize I was watching Ferguson!!
Tanks and Snipers — for real, the rioting/looting only happened on the 1st night of protest, so what was the excuse for yesterday and the day before, and day before when there was no rioting?
When will the average Americans wake up and admit they live in a Police State where the government doesn’t want you to “speak”
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It’s the same government that allows radical racist white groups that are cunning and plan to kill non-whites while any person of color can be locked up for days with no food or water, detained and sent to Guantanamo Bay etc… This country needs to be ripped apart and rebuilt for the better. It needs to happen now…
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Whites are literally less than 13 % of the world population yet are oppressive to the entire world……
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Re: Michelle Obama
Is she still proud of her country?
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peaceful protests should be allowed, and they shouldn’t be met with cops dressed like the marines. there shouldn ‘t be “free speech zones” that’s bullshit. The entire country is a free speech zone.
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It would be nice to see the people who defended the Bundy Ranch defending the right to protest in Ferguson, MO.
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It goes both ways. The “liberals” (most aren’t true liberals, if they were I would respect them) over at MSNBC were quick to call the Cliven Bundy supporters domestic terrorists. When most of that started because people were protesting out of the “free speech zones” and getting tazed for it. A clear constitutional violation that everyone should get behind. The balkanization needs to stop. If you want the cops to really shit their pants, the Bundy supporters should team up with the black protesters in St. Louis and everyone on both sides should stop making it about race and more about the rights of ALL the people.
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I would support the people of Ferguson before I support killer cops, no matter what color they are.
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Cliven Bundy, after the fact, made some ignorant racist comments. But the original cause wasn’t racial. It was establishment vs. land owner. and also the right to protest peacefully without big government tazing protesters. The establishment media fought them by painting them all tea party… racist domestic terrorists. Cliven Bundy’s comments indirectly backed that false premise up.So even the black hosts(talking heads) like sharpton was vehemently taking the establishment side, but now he is a freedom fighter in St. Louis.
Similarly , the Bundy supporters are no where to be found for the constitutional rights of black people , because they think they are all looters and rioters , when that is clearly not the case. If we came together on this the establishment would back off. imo.
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This is a proud moment for the black community. They are standing together to fight racism. Throw the murdering pig cop to the hungry crowds seeking justice right now, and let them crucify him before any investigation (or show trial) is completed. That’s only fair, and it’s what the PEOPLE DEMAND. In short, lynch him.
And anyone who points out that a young black male in the U.S. is literally thousands of times more likely to be killed by a fellow black man than a white police officer is seriously racist.
Now the white community also needs to follow this brave example and rise up against racism perpetrated against its own. We have tons of stories of black on white hate crime murders relegated to some local news outlet that nobody reads, where the race of the victims and perpetrators is INTENTIONALLY omitted (e.g., http://www.mlive.com/news/grand-rapids/index.ssf/2014/08/playground_beating_victim_a_ne.html). When will it stop? Let us protest and riot in the streets until things change, just like the courageous citizens of Ferguson.
Also, I take it from all the silence regarding Michael Cooper’s comment above that you all agree with him. Nice to know.
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^ I was too stunned by the photos to read much of the comment section.
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This is logical conclusion to the militarizing of the police since the 1990’s. Once the police becomes “military”, it is no longer a police force but a force of occupation. It uses military tactics, military weapons and equipment, and behaves like a military force occupying an area.
One study followed this trend from the late 1990’s to 2008. When the study began, SWAT teams were employed in USA in a year around 200 times. The use was limited to the hostage situations, bank robberies in progress, and in direct operations against armed opponents, usually barricaded in houses etc.
When the study finnished in 2008, SWAT teams were used around 50 000 times, more than 160 times a day, for arrests, house searches, traffic stops etcetc. What else there is than war like atmosphere once there is no longer a civilian police, but military militia?
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@Kiwi, we should all be concerned about that. Even the police. I’m sure they have family and friends, or friends who have family involved in the protest. Those are the people that need to stand up for the rights of people and actually protect and serve.
Someone told me recently there are no good cops because of the gang, solidarity, mentality. If they were good they would speak out against the bad ones. I’m not sure if I totally agree with that, but it is an interesting debate.
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Obama’s press conference on Iraq/Ferguson was amazing. He didn’t win that P.R. award for his election campaign for nothing!
It [the press conference] is like a scene out of “Children of Men” or “1984” with the government telling you some platitudes about ‘peace’ and ‘calm’; feel good words that will have an effect on the stupid and the naive-to-borderline-braindead crowd. The thing that was slick was how he does not mention “militarized police”. Wow! If he doesn’t mention it then, you know, it’s just a New Normal, so suck it up bitches!
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Kim Jong Un might as well start writing scathing Human Rights Reports on the US. Honest ones with zero propaganda, they’d be damning as hell. China already does so.
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I’m pressed for time as far as keeping up with all the stuff in the media of late. A query for anyone who knows: Was there Looting in Ferguson or was their rioting? (or a messy mixture?)
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Then they should resign , to me the moral high ground is worth more than a full time job. there are other jobs out there. They need to grow some testicular fortitude.
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Kiwi said: I imagine that any good cops among their ranks would fear reprisals in the event they tried to blow the whistle on them.
To wit:
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Dave said:
Then they should resign , to me the moral high ground is worth more than a full time job. there are other jobs out there. They need to grow some testicular fortitude.
It’s too simplistic to make that judgement. Also, it smacks of romantic “hero propaganda” from movies and hyped up real life examples. The truth is lots of people “tough it out” in sh!tty circumstances, sometimes for protracted periods. It’s easy to say, “they shouldn’t”, but it’s not helpful or insightful.
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The other side of the coin of that , if the good ones just resigned, then eventually one by one they might be replaced by bad sociopaths and braindead steroid freaks… oh wait in some departments that has happened. Maybe the good ones play it smart and silently expose the bad ones. Oh wait we have a surveillance state, but wait if you aren’t doing anything wrong, according to liberals than you shouldn’t worry. I guess they forgot that big government can be and is corrupted. That’s not black and white. That’s what the guy who holds the cards wants. and he doesn’t want solidarity between poor whites and blacks.
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The looting thing is a totally irrelevant diversion from the issues. The people with their hands in the air, the little kids, the students, the majority of the people protesting, were not looting.
The police use the actions of a non-representative handful of idiots to justify aggression against ordinary people, just as they always do at any protest.
The BBC is reporting a change in approach by the police. State police taking over from the local thugs.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-28798951
Just PR and damage limitation, no doubt.
Disclaimer: The BBC is an unreliable, biased establishment outlet. Other sources should be given more credence.
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@Legion.. I get that. Imagine you just made sergeant , and you just closed a deal on a big house.. as a ranking officer you are now seeing things you haven’t seen before like the lieutenant is involved in a drug based money laundering scheme, but even though you are a good man, you look the other way.
IMO after that point you sold your soul. No matter if you think it immediately helps your wife and kids in the new house that house will be like a deck of cards and eventually fold. It’s no better that working numbers for the mob and looking the other way on more evil crimes.
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buy maybe I’m wrong, because more and more cops are not held accountable in this world, no matter who they harm. unless he is some bigshot business tycoon who is connected in someway, and that would be only from a rookie cop , because a veteran would have learned who he could mess with and who he couldn’t. That’s why being a cop unfortunately doesn’t breed justice, because they take care of their own gang from the start. The free market is what pushes accountability, not cops who will be given a paid vacation if they kill an innocent perp. I have a carpet cleaning business. If I don’t get the stains out they won’t have me back, and if I do have a contract with a restaurant or an office building, I might get some slak but I got that contract because of good work and eventually I would get kicked off if a manager complained. Cops on the other hand who work for the public, get paid no matter what, and have very little free market accountability.
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Why is the prospect of police reform considered anathema?
Other public workers and unions (firefighters, postal workers, teachers) have been put under scrutiny in recent years. Why is the police union a sacred cow?
Other than the house democrat from Georgia who is advocating demilitarization of police, I don’t see anyone willing to challenge the status quo. In my swing state I see both democrats and republicans running on INCREASING police presence.
There are some very practical methods of improving police (higher standards, body and dash cams, requiring officers to live in the community that they serve) but no one wants to touch that with a 12 foot pole.
Until we actually have true reform of the police nothing will change. 9-11 was the best thing to happen to police (and firefighters) but that “hero” narrative has ran cold.
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I have a post stuck in moderation limbo because of the links. But I pointed out that the apparent similarities to the Israeli approach to ‘policing’ is not a coincidence. Groups of American police have been receiving ‘anti-terrorism’ training in Israel for several years now.
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Re above.
Thanks abagond!
Anyway, I’d be lying if I said I was shocked by these images. I have been aware of police militarization for some time now. MRAPs, armored vehicles from the wars oversees, have been donated to police forces. Obviously the intent is to employ these against American citizens since that is who the police deals with.
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I live in Holland and I do not consume much American media intentionally. However, from what I see from independent news sources, twitter images and eyewitness reports… I am shocked to see such racist and blatantly bigoted behaviour of the police in America. It seems as if the government does not care for the lives of these Black Americans. This looks like the police are going to a war!
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@ biff
There are about eight White-on-White murders in the US every day. Therefore, by your logic, it would be all right if the police killed, say, “only” one unarmed White person a day. Because only when the police become worse than the criminals is it a big deal.
Now consider that an unarmed Black person is killed by a police officer, security guard or vigilante once every 28 hours. Almost once a day. Now do you get it?
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@ americanasanguine
“There are some very practical methods of improving police (higher standards, body and dash cams, requiring officers to live in the community that they serve) but no one wants to touch that with a 12 foot pole.”
These are some interesting ideas. The cameras would also help to protect the police from false allegations. The counter-argument of privacy infringement is outweighed by the gains. I also think it leads to more police violence that officers in the US patrol alone. If they always were two they would perhaps feel less threatened. And you would also always have another witness; even if you consider that they cover for each other a lot, it’s a lot more risky and difficult to lie if two have to be in on it than if you’re alone.
I don’t think it’s practical that every officers has to live in the policed community. What would you do with transferees? But that a majority either lives or grew up in the community is a reasonable demand.
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@ Michael Cooper
They are both just people. Racism is the main thing that separates them and that is contrived, a set of learned cultural fictions. I will be writing a post on my own take on the future of racism in the US.
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Maria Chapelle-Nadal, who was in Iraq in 2010 and Ferguson in 2014, says Ferguson was worse! Mainly because as a civilian she was unarmed and unprotected.
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There was a change last night, and the people there dictated that if you dont repress them , there wont be the same things happening…pretty incredible on the part of the people there…that is something that shows America isnt just one dimensional in its direction, and public outcry can change direction
The sixties had much worse represion, does it make a differance if its an m15 or growling menacing attack dog on the other end? The mentality is the same
They killed people at Kent State, the National Guard occupied black neighborhoods…you think there is a differance?
The military escalation of the police in America arguments take attention away from the real problem , which is how generaly white people and white authorities really view black Americans….and it is a huge cultural arrogant fault line
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abagond:
Not sure where you got the 1 every 28 hour statistic from, but sure. However, I think this particular outrage is occurring because the police officer is white and the victim black. When whites get gunned down, publicity is not huge. Also, I don’t see similar outrage, in the black community or elsewhere, toward black on black crime or black on white crime, both of which are much more common than white on black.
That said, I’m not a big fan of U.S. cops. Everytime I go back to the U.S. I feel like I’m entering a military state. When I travel in Asia, it feels so much more relaxed and more free, even in places like China and Vietnam that are known as communist dictatorships. I’m completely serious.
Now if we had 1965 demographics do you really think we would also have the occupational forces? They are merely a symptom of the larger problem ailing the U.S., which will only get worse as our nation increases its diversity.
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@ americanasanguine
Blacks want to hold the police accountable, but Whites, partly out of racial fear, give the police a free hand when it comes to Blacks. That is why they get away with murder.
The police have taken the place of Jim Crow, which in turn had taken the place of slavery. Thus racial profiling, mass incarceration, War on Drugs, etc. The police were largely untouched by the civil rights reforms that ended Jim Crow in the 1960s, creating a loophole.
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@ biff
Same here. The only place I have seen like it is East Germany before the fall of the Berlin Wall. Even communist China does not seem as bad from what I saw of it.
I wrote this during the Trayvon Martin media frenzy, but it applies here too:
This also applies:
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@ biff
I agree. That problem is White racism. Particularly this mindset:
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abagond:
OK, so your linked prior posts make a valid argument. However, re: Treyvon, most whites, myself included, actually looked at the evidence and felt like there was no proof beyond a reasonable doubt of Zimmerman’s guilt. And why go through all the effort of labeling Zim as a “white hispanic” (when he clearly had some African blood)? Him being “white” was critical to the narrative. You don’t get these kinds of protests when a black cop kills an unarmed black, or even for typical hispanic on black violence.
For the vast majority of these crimes where white people are just attacked and killed by for blacks no reason, there is no reasonable doubt whatsoever–they aren’t close calls. The situations aren’t comparable in that respect.
In this case re: M. Brown, most of the white commentators I have seen feel it’s very likely the officer was guilty, but the mobs haven’t even waited for the trial.
Meanwhile, more details show the Brown and his friend were suspected of a robbery earlier in that same day and the officer, Darren Wilson was investigating and had a clean record. Like it or not, these are the kinds of things the public and jury takes into consideration when deciding whose testimony to believe.
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@Kiwi
Many law enforcement inner circles are pretty gangs and follow such rules. Snitching is an automatic death wish within this vicious circle. After all the studies done, I completely believe that this is the case in most cities in the US.
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@buddhuu
The looting thing is a totally irrelevant diversion from the issues.
You can say that with firm confidence because you’ve followed this situation. At this point, I could say it only out of a general sense of how the media work and their regard for American blacks. It sounds like you’re saying the looting was so peripheral that authorities who make it into a big deal when they address Ferguson really reveal themselves. Guess I will have to have a look at the coverage to some extent to get a context for myself.
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Let’s see. One young black male killed. Very possibly a wrongful death. In response, a number of community members — black — begin looting stores.
To quell the public disturbance, the police make a show of force, firing tear-gas, some flash grenades and some rubber bullets, effectively keeping the situation from escalating into widespread rioting that would — if past riots in black neighborhoods are a guide — have led to the wholesale destruction of the neighborhood, and possibly have led to more deaths among community members engaged in arson, looting and general mayhem.
What’s wrong with stopping trouble before it gets out of hand?
Do blacks believe it’s a therapeutic exercise to burn down the neighborhood and rampage through the area unleashing violence on hapless victims caught up in the moment? That’s what happened in South Central after the announcement of the Rodney King verdict. About 50 deaths and widespread destruction.
The Ferguson protests remained relatively peaceful because the troublemakers were seriously out-gunned and they knew it. Deterrence worked.
As for the composition of the police force, well, you can thank government union rules for that. Meanwhile, white flight from Ferguson is the reason the community is three-quarters black. So, due to the attractiveness of the union job, turnover on the police force is slow, while the shift in racial demographics in the neighborhood happened relatively quickly.
Comments from whites who were former residents say the area is on a down-trend, with more and more closed store-fronts and no new investment in the area. Sounds a lot like East St. Louis.
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“They are both just people. Racism is the main thing that separates them and that is contrived, a set of learned cultural fictions. I will be writing a post on my own take on the future of racism in the US.”
If it’s hard to imagine a world without racism the end result is tantamount to what Michael Cooper said. Some people say racism is learned because children don’t seem to be automatically racist. Maybe. There are many things children don’t do which adults do. Most learn speech, locomotion and sexual activity as a part of their development. While they seem wired for speech they won’t learn language unless they hear people speak.
Maybe the revelance of racism is something that becomes clearer when people get older and start thinking about families. If there is a white group (which defines itself by being pale, for example) will racism against darker people develop as a cultural value? Suppose we start with a few assumptions:
1) Groups are interested in perpetuating themselves
2) Membership in the white group has been defined by the possession of certain phenotypic features
3) Those features are easily eliminated if whites have sexual relations with darker people.
Would taboos against relations with darker people serve a useful function in this scenario? Would darker people be seen as an existential threat? There are cultural themes that seem to suggest a certain fear of ‘non-white’ sexuality. There is the black brute stereotype in which the black man is predatory and always on the hunt for a white woman to rape. Quite a few lynchings involved accusations of rape which served as an excuse for castrations. Then there is the Jezebel stereotype for black women that portrayed them as seductive and lewd. The implication of these stereotypes is that Blacks want to corrupt or ‘dirty’ the white race by imposing sexual relations on them. Even wrt to the incident in Ferguson the idea that dark people represent a ‘dirty’ element came up.
So how can a ‘white race’, defined as it is, exist without racism existing given the realities of human reproduction and inheritance? Racism is the instrumentality of the white race to ensure its perpetuation. In a connected world, ending racism is tantamount to ending the white race as a concept and eventually a reality. Of course, ending racism doesn’t automatically mean that whites have to date people who aren’t considered white. But if there is no social, political or economic advantage to being white what would likely follow from that? So instead we have a system that incentivizes being white and encourages whites to have white children.
This, I think, cuts to the core of why it is difficult for people who say they are white not to be racist. For white people living among ‘non-whites’ to be truly free of racism thay have to be OK with the idea that white people as they know them may not exist in the future. This involves the destruction of an identity! The end of racism and the end of whiteness is the same thing because the phenotypic features associated with whiteness are the product of separation and they have to be maintained through continued segregation. If whites are open and don’t care about the propagation of their color, it goes away.
Yet, in a sense, all people are black people it’s just a matter of degree. Pigments similar to the ones that give color to the skin, hair, and eyes exist in various parts of the body and the brain of whites as well where they have important roles. Deficiency has been associated with serious illnesses like Parkinson’s. Yet, I think the fact that they are a whole lot paler than anyone else has influenced the way whites interact with others. In other words, the white group identity and racism are interlocked. While one could consider the white identity artifical, its destruction will have physical consequences for how future generations look because whiteness is tied to physical appearance. So there is a definite interplay between mental concepts and what we experience as reality.
Sometimes I find my thoughts on these matters a little subtle and difficult to express in words. I see racism as a reaction to biological realities that needn’t exist if an identity had not developed over appearance. Yet the latter occurred and, indeed, it was probably likely to occur. With that identity in place racism follows naturally as a means of perpetuating a group identity that is under perpetual threat from ‘dirty’ colors due to the way it was defined and the natural laws of genetics.
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abagond writes:
Now consider that an unarmed Black person is killed by a police officer, security guard or vigilante once every 28 hours.
Really? I doubt it. How about providing the source of this claim.
As we know, when a white guy shoots a black, it’s front-page news. Recently there was the story of the white Detroit resident who shot a black woman who knocked on his door. There was George Zimmerman.
In short, this seldom happens.
Security guards shooting blacks? That implies the black victim — however few there are — was in a place he wasn’t supposed to be. Security guards aren’t out patrolling the streets or responding to emergency calls like police. Zimmerman was not a security guard.
Police shooting black suspects? Is there ever a case that doesn’t receive widespread media coverage?
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The governor of Missouri just had a press conference. Fox News cut away from it once people in Ferguson started asking about the schools and other long-term issues. Instead they proceeded to demonize Michael Brown. You know, to put his murder “in perspective”.
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@ sb
Your faith in the White press is touching. I will do a post on it in the next few days.
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“Hands up! Don’t shoot!” Howard University protest for Ferguson. It looks like a Norman Rockwell painting.
Does it ever!
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This:
California: Unarmed Black Father Dies After Tasing by Deputies
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The death of Michael Brown has coincided with other police killings of unarmed African-American men. On Tuesday in California, a father of five died in custody after sheriff’s deputies repeatedly hit him with a Taser. San Bernardino County sheriffs say they stopped Dante Parker while he was riding his bicycle, after a resident reported seeing a man flee on a bike following a burglary attempt. Just one week earlier, police fatally shot 22-year-old John Crawford inside a Wal-Mart in Beavercreek, Ohio. Witnesses said Crawford was holding a toy gun on sale at the store and was shot after failing to put it down. Human Rights Watch says the killings of John Crawford, Michael Brown and Eric Garner, who was placed in an illegal chokehold by New York City police, “raise serious human rights concerns.”
Source: http://www.democracynow.org/2014/8/15/headlines#8151
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@ biff
No, what was critical was his not being arrested. That is what drove the protests. Same with Darren Wilson.
Over and over again the police kill unarmed Blacks and get away with it. There is a long, bitter history to this.
Two of Sean Bell’s four killers were Black. That did not make it all right. Not by a long shot. Sean Bell would make most Black people’s top ten list of unarmed Blacks killed by the police.
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@ biff
James Holmes, the Batman shooter, was arrested in a matter of minutes. Had the police let him go, like they did with Zimmerman, Whites would be protesting too. It is like that.
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abagond:
The batman shooter was clearly guilty of murder. Zimmerman had a very compelling case for self-defense (and ultimately this was proved to a jury). Here also, since the police knew that Brown had just committed a violent robbery, they weren’t quick to accept that a murder had been committed. Totally not comparable with Holmes.
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OMG
SMH
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@ biff
Even by the police’s own account they shot Brown when he was 35 feet away. Several witnesses said he had his hands up. How is that NOT murder? You need to take your White Goggles® off.
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@ biff
Please help me to understand something:
1. James Holmes, armed, is suspected of mass murder: he is arrested.
2. Michael Brown, unarmed, is suspected of robbery: he is gunned down.
How do you make sense of that?
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The military response has been peeled back at this point. Saw a news report saying it’s more of a civilian/law enforcement atmosphere now. A black cop, a trooper, was trotted out to provide that “calm” Obama called for.
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@Origin
Your entire post summarizes the existence of this blog and social studies when it comes to race. You read Origin’s post and it clearly covers every aspect of why we even read and post in this blog in the first place.
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@biff,
Funny how the cops never mentioned they were looking for a robbery suspect…until now. They first claimed that the officer approached Brown because he and his friend were walking in the street. Hmmmmm…..
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@ Origin
Some interesting analysis in your last comment…it does speak to an undeniable logic about continuing white identity.
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abagond writes:
Your faith in the White press is touching. I will do a post on it in the next few days.
But you avoid the question. What’s your source? The black press? Is no one compiling statistics? For any interested researcher, it would be easy to collect enough reliable data to develop an accurate perspective.
Every shooting death gets some media coverage, even if it’s only local coverage. Thus, someone researching shootings in every category can obtain the necessary data through a google search of the major population centers.
And it’s not too likely the FBI/DOJ crime data is way off. Maybe a few cases are missed, but not many. Thus, you can get a reasonably accurate picture of who shoots whom from researching a few links at one site.
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Btw, about the “robbery”, from the Washington Post article about the videotape from the store:
“The witness said that the store employee then told Brown he had to pay first, and then Brown reached over the counter to grab more packs of cigars and turned to leave the store.
According to the witness account, the employee called 911 and attempted to block Brown from leaving by standing in front of the door.
“That is when Brown grabbed [redacted employee name] by the shirt and forcefully pushed him back in to a display rack,” the report said.
The police report goes on to state that surveillance video from the store shows Brown and Johnson entering the store before Brown hands the pack of Swisher Sweets to Johnson.
“An apparent struggle of confrontation seems to take place with Brown, however it is obscured by a display case on the counter,” the report stated. “Meanwhile, Johnson sets the box he was handed back on the counter.””
More hmmmmm….it appears the that robbery part of the strong arm robbery claim against Brown might be wrong. It also explains why Johnson has not and will likely not be, at least credibly so, charged as an “accomplice”.
So after first saying that Brown and Johnson were stopped for walking in the street, six days later they come up with the strong armed robbery story and nothing about the actual shooting and are still holding back the autopsy report hoping the tox screen comes back howing evidence of drug use. Right…
They are in full on coverup mode and bungling it badly. But they are really hoping that putting the video out there of a big black guy getting into a shoving match with a smaller store clerk will inflame the usual suspects to excuse what the officer did later. which, apparently, was related to jaywalking and not robbery. Unfortuantely, given the racist nature of our society, they might be right.
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Btw, there’s a press conference going on right now where the Police Chief just stated that the officer who approached Brown didn’t know about the robbery incident. Oops. Also, if Brown and Johnson were suspects in a robbery, why was Jahnson allowed to leave the scene after the cop shot Brown? And, he still hasn’t been charged with anything. These cops make Barney Fife looked like Dick Tracey.
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biff @ abagond:
The batman shooter was clearly guilty of murder. Zimmerman had a very compelling case for self-defense (and ultimately this was proved to a jury).
Linda says,
No Biff, Zimmerman DID NOT have a compelling case of self-defense
and I refuse to let you white racist hold up this tragedy as some sort of triumph and Validation over your SICK dislike and hatred of black people.
Zimmerman followed a teenager he did not know, he confronted a teenager he did not know, they got into a fight, and when this Strange adult man starting losing the fight to the teenager he did not know, he pulled his gun and shot the teenager he did not know.
No, he wasn’t getting his head banged against the concrete multiple times because he would have been knocked out, as most people are when they hit their heads (why is Zimmerman the exception to the rule, when most people with head injuries are taken to the ER whether they like it or not)
The jury, like yourself, were nothing but a bunch of white racists (and 1 weak Latina who admitted she was wrong and was pressured by the white jurists) who felt compelled to support Zimmerman because they were outraged about black people accurately calling out the Police for racism because they did not Arrest and Hold Zimmerman for adjudication, the way the would have arrested/held any black man/teenager for shooting someone.
Zimmerman profiled Trayvon because he was black, and when the POS was losing the fight, like all weak men, he used his gun
Please find a case, where a black man shot a white, black, or any other man, and was released by the police 24 hours later without charges filed.
Even Zimmerman’s starchest defender and friend, Frank Taaffe, finally had to come clean and admit Zimmerman was guilty:
“What I know of George and his tendencies and also my opinion is that he racially profiled Trayvon Martin that night because if that had been a white kid on a cell phone, walking through our neighborhood, he wouldn’t have stayed on him the way he did and that’s a fact and I believe that in my heart,” said Taaffe.
But today, Taaffe claims he just wants to clear his conscience, “I can only ask for the country to forgive me and today I believe that he racially profiled him based on the color of his skin.”
http://gawker.com/george-zimmermans-best-racist-friend-now-says-he-was-gu-1575068202
I don’t wish to derail this conversation, but I will not allow you white racists to continue to smear Trayvons name because a bunch of racist b’tches sided with that weak pos Zimmerman. May those women rot in h’ll.
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@ Linda
*thunderous applause* 😀
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@Linda, I cosign that.
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Hey, whadayaknow:
http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2014/08/14/police-killings-data/14060357/
So it looks like the police shoot and kill about 400 suspects a year. About 96 are black, which means almost all the rest — over 300 — are white.
The numbers may be a little off, but not way off.
On another note, Zimmerman was a fool to bring trouble upon himself, but he certainly isn’t any more idiotic than the usual black thug who starts firing his weapon in a bar, at a party or at someone on the street.
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@ Linda
Thank you, but I do not want this post to get derailed onto Zimmerman.
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@origin, so to take your theory to the extreme, that would imply that some people are the result of centuries of being bred like animals the same way you would breed a race horse or a show dog. Is that what you intended to imply by your analysis? Because that’s what I got from it. Centuries of inbreeding? Really?
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Anne, lifelearner @ thanks
No problem, Abagond… I won’t go into it any further… I just want to say this:
but I’m just sick of white people (and others) missing the point that black, mixed, multi-race people, Hispanics/Latinos, and other non-white groups of people, also carry “negative” and stereotypical viewpoints about each other.
Black people profile each other based on class (ghetto vs bougie-middle class), nationality (black American vs Haitian, Nigerian, etc), skin colour (dark vs light) and ethnicity
so I don’t know why it’s hard for white people to believe that a mixed-race Hispanic (like Zimmerman), can and do stereotype and profile black people just like everyone else — his 1/8th or 1/4 African blood doesn’t changes anything.
White people do not understand that black and non-white people in America are exposed and are also indoctrinated with a Eurocentric viewpoints– whether they like it or not.
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If i didn’t know any better watching the news i would swear this was a third world country but sadly and i am very frightened this is America. This is nightmarish. Military weaponry being used against American citizens. And i also read that the media tried to get pictures and the police turned on the media sources there with red dots pointed at them from the guns if they didn’t leave. So they are threatening the media sources who come to get stories and pictures, that’s means they are hiding something. They won’t reveal the name of the murdering animal who shot the poor young man, this stinks. What in the hell is the POTUS going to do about this?
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Where is that “CHANGE” POTUS promised?
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sb32199 said:
Disingenuous BS, or you haven’t kept up. Amongst the people shot with baton rounds was a WHITE female pastor. I don’t recall which specific item she was looting.
I’m as white as your @ss, but I tell you now I would have rioted the f~ck out of that place. You make black people out to be inherently violent and criminal. You’re a f~cking idiot. There’s this thing called empathy where you put yourself in the other person’s place. Would you take the murder of your neighbour’s kid lying down?
Where the hell does race come into it, except as the only common reason that certain kids keep getting murdered?
Do you have kids, FFS?
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Legion said:
Yes, indeed – that is exactly what I’m saying, and I’m saying it both from what I see reported by independent media AND from what I know of the way mainstream media works.
The tactic is now stock.
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@ americanasanguine
Meaningful reform of the police is not possible. Their function is to maintain and protect a status quo. How do you reform that?
Equating police and firefighters is not valid. The intended function of firefighters is to prevent death and destruction, period. The function of police is to prevent death and destruction to the wrong people.
Dream on.
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@buddhuu: You are my hero.
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buddhuu writes:
Disingenuous BS, or you haven’t kept up. Amongst the people shot with baton rounds was a WHITE female pastor. I don’t recall which specific item she was looting.
That’s why it’s a bad idea to put yourself unnecessarily in harm’s way. No matter what your race or gender, there’s no upside to participating in something that might degenerate into chaos.
I’ve watched people taunt the police. Protesting isn’t equivalent to taunting the police. Taunting is a dare that’s meant to lead to rioting, but you can be sure the rioters will suffer more than the cops. What’s the point? How much is permanently lost when neighborhoods are shattered by riots?
I’m as white as your @ss, but I tell you now I would have rioted the f~ck out of that place.
Good for you. Feel free to riot away, damaging other people’s property as you act out your fantasies of revenge against some society you clearly don’t understand.
You make black people out to be inherently violent and criminal.
In as much as I’m familiar with violent crime statistics, and the fact that I live in NY City and the fact that I’ve been attacked — jumped by blacks — and considering the fact that people I’ve known have been murdered by blacks, I’ve got a perspective on the situation.
You’re a f~cking idiot. There’s this thing called empathy where you put yourself in the other person’s place. Would you take the murder of your neighbour’s kid lying down?
Yeah, the father of a close friend of mine was murdered by a black burglar who practically took the old man’s head off with a hatchet. The kitchen was a bloody mess after that one. It looked like a slaughterhouse in there. So, I’ve got empathy for the victim’s three kids. Meanwhile, there were a few other murders of people I knew. A couple were drug related, so the victims — the people I knew — brought it on themselves. But they were murdered nonetheless.
Where the hell does race come into it, except as the only common reason that certain kids keep getting murdered?
I guess you don’t keep up with the realities of murder in the US. Despite accounting for only one-eighth of the population, blacks commit more murders than whites. Here we’ve got a case of one young black male who was killed by a cop who probably broke the law and will probably find himself convicted on a homicide charge. Maybe he’ll plead guilty to manslaughter.
But this killing is a diversion from the 25 or so other killings of blacks that occur every day. Maybe you should consider the larger social pathology?
Do you have kids, FFS?
Yep.
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A few things:
First, if the batman shooter got executed, no whites would have rioted. I still don’t think the comparison isn’t apt at all. If the batman shooter has a struggle with the police and a gun discharges and the policeman is shot the fact that he was running away would probably not save him–on his knees with his hands up after shooting a cop, not clear.
Second, I’m not saying the cop in this case isn’t guilty of murder with respect to Mr. Brown. However, the fact that a robbery was caught on tape will be damaging to the accomplice’s credibility (though he doesn’t sound like he’s lying, and initially seems pretty compelling). I know there are other witnesses too. If the jury concludes that Brown was shot multiple times from some distance while he had his hands up, and the cop is convicted, no whites will go rioting.
Third, Linda, sometimes I think you sound intelligent. Recently, you have been overcome by emotions. I don’t deny that Treyvon was very likely “racially profiled” when he was initially followed, which is something almost everyone does without even thinking (we also age and gender profile, and no one complains). However, that does NOT necessarily mean that he was murdered. If you can’t see that, then basic logic escapes you.
Finally, Origin, your comment above is brilliant. Yes, whites are facing an existential crisis, while, due to homegeneity in Asia and Africa, Asians and Africans really are not. If you can accept that it’s more than skin color involved (e.g., IQ and other traits), you will make the leap into understanding how many white people actually feel.
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Biff, when a white racist says that a non-white person is “over come by emotions” –what you are really saying is:
“yes, Linda, I admit I was called out on my racist bullsh’t, and I have no real arguments to present or defend my racist positions or opinions, which are all based on my emotional and irrational dislike of black people”
I don’t come to this blog to satisfy your need for “intellectual” dialogue, Biff
as someone mentioned earlier, “this is a blog, not a PhD dissertation” —
your credibility as someone who “brings the balance” is becoming non-existent as you continue to put your half-truths and dishonest statements into the atmosphere.
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Linda:
I think the speaking with emotions and not facts has more to do with you lacking a Y chromosome than your race (which I had understood was mixed).
No need for a PhD dissertation, just a civil discussion using facts.
Anyway, you keep mentioning the “bring the balance” thing. That was originally a silly reference to the future darth vader. I know most people here disagree with me and think I am evil. That’s fine. I can have a civil discussion with people I disagree with.
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I think Biff is revealing who he is with that post. Another “white genocide” but we did no wrong to anybody else in the world type of narrative. Problem is you and anybody with any logical sense knows that’s BS. I don’t care about the demise of the white, asian, or any other race period. But I do care about civil rights and justice.
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TBC,
Not “white genocide”, but a slow extinction if things continue as they are. That’s not bs at all, it’s demographics. Civil rights and justice are good, but ultimately you’re looking at a short time frame it seems. If, in a few generations, we create a third world environment in the U.S. (yes, it is happening), civil rights and justice will go down the toilet.
Kiwi,
I was making a generalization to prove a point. Of course there are different African and Asian ethnic groups. Take the Japanese and Koreans, for example. They have tons of workers from the Philipines, Pakistan, Indonesia, etc. who would love citizenship. By and large they don’t grant it. Why would they act that way? Because they want to preserve their people, their culture and their way of life.
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@biff
Problem is “the way of life” you propose was built mainly by slavery of other non-white people. The colonial worlds of the Americas, Australia, and NZ are products of exploited work on the backs of others. They are and never will be “white” only countries. That’s the thing with the colonial mindset, you want absolute rule while dismissing how your wealth and product of being came into existence.
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Don’t forget South Africa…..
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@Legion
I used to think North Korea or some China detaining centers were the worst in the world along with some South American ones. Now I’m not sure what tactics are not revealed that go on within US or UN sponsored detaining centers. I can imagine a complete coverup and conditions similar or exceeding what they portray are the worst of other countries and regimes.
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I haven’t been reading all the comments yet, but I too heard about the police chief mentioning about the robbery and that was indeed Michael Brown in the surveillance footage. I also heard that Brown was blocking traffic, also mentioned by the police chief. I dunno how long it takes to fill out a report regarding a strong arm robbery, but I doubt it would take a week to do it. And the chief said that the officer’s killing of Brown was unrelated.
It really seems like they’re trying to do what the media loves to do, treat black suspects, including dead ones, like they deserve to die. The Huffington Post has an article that illustrates this:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/08/14/media-black-victims_n_5673291.html
Brown was no saint. That’s clear. But no one can justify the police murder of an unarmed teen, even if he did commit a robbery. He should’ve been fittingly punished for stealing cigars. But not executed like some wild animal!
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sb32199 said:
Let’s see. One young black male killed. Very possibly a wrongful death. In response, a number of community members — black — begin looting stores.
To quell the public disturbance, the police make a show of force, firing tear-gas, some flash grenades and some rubber bullets, effectively keeping the situation from escalating into widespread rioting that would — if past riots in black neighborhoods are a guide — have led to the wholesale destruction of the neighborhood, and possibly have led to more deaths among community members engaged in arson, looting and general mayhem.
What’s wrong with stopping trouble before it gets out of hand?
Do blacks believe it’s a therapeutic exercise to burn down the neighborhood and rampage through the area unleashing violence on hapless victims caught up in the moment? That’s what happened in South Central after the announcement of the Rodney King verdict. About 50 deaths and widespread destruction.
Black people are never heard or taken seriously, unless we riot. Plain and simple. If society doesn’t want us acting crazy and tearing s__t up, why won’t it do something about the problem(s) that prevent them from seeing and treating us as human beings? It’s evidenced whenever we start something, even when we don’t riot and loot. We’re suspected of starting one. Society is more concerned with the welfare of its property and their dollars than black people.
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biff said,
The batman shooter was clearly guilty of murder. Zimmerman had a very compelling case for self-defense (and ultimately this was proved to a jury). Here also, since the police knew that Brown had just committed a violent robbery, they weren’t quick to accept that a murder had been committed. Totally not comparable with Holmes.
Compelling case as proven by a jury??? WTF?!? Anyway…
I dunno where to start with this nonsense. Brown was a suspect in the robbery. He had no weapons but he did get a little physical with the employee. But still he deserved to be blown away as opposed to being arrested and tried??
And how can the police not accept that a murder was convicted that soon? If you were to look at footage taken after the murder, you see cops standing a few feet away from the body. Plus, Brown was shot numerous times, and was laying there for a good while.
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re: Brothawolf’s statement
Does that mean that there is no chance of planning a nonviolent civil disobedience event that non-blacks can also participate in.
I also mean something huge that can bring-in those who can arrive easily by land, say the area between Chicago and Memphis and Nashville, Louisville and Indianapolis over to Kansas City.
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Kiwi said:
Thanks for that perspective. It’s something I was not really aware of and hadn’t considered.
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sb32199 said:
Ah, yes… The property. It’s all about the property, isn’t it? Never mind people, just don’t hurt ma property. WILL SOMEONE PLEEEASE THINK OF THE PROPERTY?
You clown.
Oh, and thanks for your permission to riot. It’s something I’ve never done, although I’ve participated in plenty of protests. That said, riot as an act of extreme protest or as the consequence of feelings of impotence and frustration – I don’t condemn that at all. I support it.
I used to think that “By any means necessary” was a dangerous thing to espouse. I now see that it is the only viable survival strategy.
As for lacking an understanding of society (I think you meant US society specifically), no doubt you have a point. As an outsider, my understanding of US society will be limited, but there are some things that are basic principles and that apply to my country as well as yours – for example, the way that laws are increasingly more concerned with preserving property rather than working class human life – especially the lives of POC.
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@sb32199,
The rest of your post seems almost as if you’re working your way through the ‘Broken Records’ department of this blog. Shallow presentation of selected, vague statistics, anecdotal non-evidence, no real analysis.
Even assuming that your assertions are statistically valid (which I don’t), you attribute crime to blackness. Convince me that the crime stats aren’t driven by poverty, or even a reaction to the pressure of relentless, imposed disadvantage. Convince me that it is because the perpetrators are black.
Logically, if what you imply is reality, one might expect a wealthy African American dentist or lawyer to go psycho at any moment and rob and murder a little old white lady. The guy may be a professional, but he’s still black, right?
I understand why people here get so annoyed and frustrated. Some of the repetitive racist stupidity is just so spectacularly irrational that it is hard to compose one’s thoughts into a weird enough shape to engage with it.
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Mary Burrell said:
Thanks for the vote of confidence but I’m only just beginning the process of ‘waking up’. Not just where racism is concerned, but regarding the way the world works in general.
Things can’t continue in their current direction or we are all screwed.
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I notice how some people
– condemn robbery but not police brutality.
– condemn violence by rioters, but not violence by police.
– condemn the destruction of property but not the destruction of Black life.
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Martin Luther King, Jr said:
Fuller quote:
The speech it came from:
http://www.gphistorical.org/mlk/mlkspeech/
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@ Origin
Thanks for your excellent comment. Probably one of the best summations on this blog of White identity and the hideous things that naturally follow from it
I just want to underline that being born genetically white does not mean you have to adopt a White identity. The Ancient Greeks are an example. So are Voluntary Negroes (those who could pass for White but choose not to).
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buddhuu and abagond have both offered support for rioting as an acceptable response to whatever seems to have inflamed blacks. Interesting.
Black riots in the US have a prelude and an aftermath. Is there any evidence of rioting having an upside? Does life in the riot zones improve? Or not? Are they like forest fires that dispose of the old wood and bring in the new growth? Or does rioting leave a lasting scar through a neighborhood?
One point is certain. Whites won’t be moving into riot zones. Whites won’t live in them and are highly unlikely to operate retail businesses in them. Over the last 20 or more years, the demographics of Ferguson have shifted it into a community with a large black majority. It’s pretty likely that percentage of black residents will increase and whites with no solid ties to the area will relocate.
From media coverage it appears that a lot of retail businesses are run by Asians. I suppose the barbershops are run by blacks, but other retail businesses? Probably not. Are the local McDonald’s franchises managed by blacks? Hmmm? Impossible to say.
The public schools in Ferguson? Just a wild guess, but academic achievement of students is probably on the low side.
Back to the question of what riots have delivered. Is there any connection between the Detroit riots of the mid-1960s and today’s bankruptcy of Detroit? What changed after Detroit broke out in flames? We know that whites moved out. We know the auto industry started going downhill. We know Detroit’s political leadership changed.
Was there any upside?
How about the Crown Heights riot in 1991? How did that help the Brooklyn neighborhood? What did Mayor Dinkins do when the situation turned ominous? Nothing. His inaction led to three days of rioting.
Ferguson? More looting last night. Is the black community better off after looters removed lots of liquor, cigarettes and clothing from stores that were featured in many videos appearing online?
Maybe it’s best to let riots run their course the way a forest fire would if no efforts were made to put it out. But that would result in something like the Lower Ninth Ward of New Orleans after Katrina. The water destroyed everything, the residents were driven out, and most of them are now living elsewhere, many in other states. That’s one outcome.
Interestingly, the wreckage caused by Hurricane Katrina was blamed on Bush. That’s the common sentiment among blacks. But it seems Obama is living a blame-free presidential life, at least in the black view. The criticisms are mild even though his administration has provided police departments with lots of excess military gear.
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Many of the black people with whom I’ve discussed Obama regard him as a monumental disappointment at best, but more often as a total sell-out.
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Origin , I see things you are saying that I am thinking about also , especialy related to culture and cultural fault lines….where I dont really know what it is like to be black in a white racist world , what I can say is , I know how white people think , and , what keeps ringing true , in white racism , is a cultural ignorance , arrogance and cultural racism…it has a lot to do with how white people perceive other cultures, but, afro diasporic culture gets more hostility than any other culture….in truth , Afro diasporic culture is so powerful that it grates up against every other culture, and it has been banned , surpressed and buried by most all other cultures who came from the several hundred families that crossed the Red Sea , at the very least , these other cultures have no idea how define the value of Afro diasporic culture in terms of advancement of civilisation and humanity…
Lets face it , the fundimental mandates and dogmas of Judeism , Chritianity and Islam are in deep conflict with Afro diasporic culture….under the mandates of religious templates , in Christianity and Islam , those people combined religious justification with phenotype recognition to define black Africans as culturaly inferior , and worthy of slavery on a multi million mass leval , far above any other culture
While Native Americans were massacered and subjected to genicide , at least on their reservations , they were allowed to practice their cultures , where black Africans were stripped of their culture , and it was banned and destroyed…which played out in Chistian and Islamic slavery in a big way…yet , ironicly , Afro diasporic culture , in the Americas,went on to dominate and become the foundations of how these countries expressed themselves in certain aspects of culture….which speaks to its incredible force and power , and this didnt play out in the same way with other non white cultures in the Americas
As long as other cultures wont acknowledge the value and gifts that Afro diasporic culture represents to humanity , you can bet Afro descendents will bang up against other cultural fault lines…and I mean really define and understand the depth of these contributions . You can bet , these other cultures dont have in their dialogues , a definition of these very real and quantifiable contributions
Of course if you analise white culture in the context of its conquest in the Americas, what defines them the most , is a cultural racism , arrogance and ignorance , with religion and phenotype differances as the templates to create the racial dynamics that haunt us into today, and , while all phenotypes and other religions fell under this cultural racism , the Afro diasporic culture threatened white culture more than any other, by the nature of its power and force , the proof being that Afro diasporic culture, in the face of absolute anialation, ended up dominating the cultural expresion of the countries in the Americas that brought slaves from Africa in large numbers. This is hard core reality only the willingly blind cant see….yes, there are huge numbers of the willingly blind
If I understand white cultural ignorance , arrogance and cultural racism , it explains white racism on all its levals , from the bigot , to the liberal who recognises discrimination but cant understand black cultural needs or expresion in society and will condemn dress or cultural expresions , to institutional racism , to white cops in Ferguson , immitating cops from Birmington Alabama in the sixties forming lines of barriors with viscious attack dogs
At least I can convey to you that I am thinking about these cultural aspects also ,even if we may aproach it from differant angles
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Maybe instead of giving police departments military equipment the federal government could give them bodycams. Radical, I know.
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Cams fitted to officers is being trialled in the UK at the moment. In principle I think it is a good idea, but only if unedited footage is handed over to an independent party immediately following an incident.
However, even apparently clear video evidence seems insufficient to deter police and prosecutors from just brazening it out until protesters simply run out of energy and momentum.
The law is above the law.
The law is a tool of control, not an instrument of justice.
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Riots?
Thank gosh for my education about riots in Brazil…and , the truth is , you cant tell the players without a scorecard and there is a big differance between black people showing anger at people being killed by oppresion in their neighborhoods and white angst , middle class anger at their parents and authority , streaming out of universities infiltrating legitimate demonstrations with their black white skinned bloc , commie , anarchistic ideologies , violently breaking public property that working people in humble situations use and need
And they even killed a repórter shooting explosives at police…this type of white rioting is disgusting…these white people dont even know how to reach out to the black families who lost members to police violence exactly like what happened in Ferguson , many times over in Brazil..they never showed up to support them , they only wallowed in their white angst
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who called it? me.
man i was in LA for 1992
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1992_Los_Angeles_riots
there has been a lot of dudes shot by police in Los Angeles lately too and NY’s always good for a ‘justified officer involved shooting’
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Is it possible to being a certain race or ethnicity while not being limited to or stereotype into behaving a certain way or practicing specific cultures? There were many anti-looters @ all these business that were young black men and women. That’s progress that the media of the LA riots of ’92 did not showcase because they wanted to retain a status quo. Now based on that fact what kind of people were actually doing the looting? There were no real close ups of the actual perpetrators of the looting. I bet local trailer people, ethnic and non-ethnic immigrants, etc were partaking into an opportunity due to their mindset and wanting to benefit.
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BR writes:
I know how white people think , and , what keeps ringing true , in white racism , is a cultural ignorance , arrogance and cultural racism…
In fact, based on what you’ve written, it appears you’re clueless.
it has a lot to do with how white people perceive other cultures, but, afro diasporic culture gets more hostility than any other culture….in truth , Afro diasporic culture is so powerful that it grates up against every other culture, and it has been banned , surpressed and buried by most all other cultures who came from the several hundred families that crossed the Red Sea , at the very least , these other cultures have no idea how define the value of Afro diasporic culture in terms of advancement of civilisation and humanity…
It seems you really believe the preceding. But to believe what you’ve written you’d have to deny the existence of black culture in the US. Music, sports, and the inevitable black studies departments at most colleges and universities in the country. There are the black cultural sites found in many cities.
The Schomburg Center in Harlem, and its counterparts around the country. And how can we overlook the HBCUs? The Historically Black Colleges and Universities founded and funded by whites. Or the NAACP, founded and initially funded by whites. There’s the Bill Gates Scholarship fund for blacks, and other similar backers of higher education. And many, many more.
The list of white benefactors and the magnitude of their financial contributions is a complete refutation of your beliefs.
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buddhuu and abagond have both offered support for rioting as an acceptable response to whatever seems to have inflamed blacks. Interesting.
sb,
In no way did buddhuu or Abagond do anything of the sort. Explaining how and why a riot is a sidelight from the core issues [buddhuu] and pointing out the social atmosphere that can lead to such things as riots (Abagond) are obviously not equivalent to promoting and being desirous of riots. Those two men both know that, I only add this comment to try and spare them the lead weighted fatigue that would come from responding to your nonsense and dedicated act of cluelessness.
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@ Origin
“If it’s hard to imagine a world without racism the end result is tantamount to what Michael Cooper said. Some people say racism is learned because children don’t seem to be automatically racist. Maybe…
With that identity in place racism follows naturally as a means of perpetuating a group identity that is under perpetual threat from ‘dirty’ colors due to the way it was defined and the natural laws of genetics.”
Excellent analysis and one I subscribe to wholeheartedly – couldn’t have said it more eloquently.
I find it illogical for whites to argue that they’re white, but they’re not racist when the foundational cornerstone of WHITE and RACE, had their historical, cultural beginnings predicated on white and race/racism. They cannot be delineated. (That’s not to say all whites commit racist acts, or that all their views support their whites’/whiteness’ interests as a whole and not that of humanity). For those of us who live in northern climes and know what a healthy pine tree is: it’s like arguing that I’m a pine tree, but I‘m devoid of pine needles or any such examples.
As I’ve posted many times here, the issue for me is not pale/white skin, but the behavioural acts of those with pale/white skin and their cultural legacy that are detrimental to all of us.
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I didn’t scan for the original but I assume the first quote is of biff:
Yes, whites are facing an existential crisis, while, due to homegeneity in Asia and Africa, Asians and Africans really are not.
————————————————————————–
This was Kiwi:
Dumb comment of the week. I had no idea Africans or Asians saw themselves as part of one big happy family. Whites certainly didn’t see themselves that way during the Middle Ages. Why the sudden interest? Oh, yeah. Race and racism.
Right, plenty of homogeneity in the Rawandan genocide. So much homogeneity in Ethiopia that a war led to a new state: Eritria. In the DRC “loving” big brother type black men force young kids, who could be their kid brothers, to mine Coltan. Lots of homogeneity in Asia too, you know, even harmony. Victims of Japan’s “comfort women” activities are still trying to bring about justice on this issue. I don’t know for sure but I’m pretty sure there is massive hatred of Japan in some pretty prominent parts of Asia and with good reason. From the cursory amount that I’ve seen of Japanese military practice from past wars, they were obviously fearsome warriors, but that ferocity was matched with great cruelty on their part too. I found an article on the “comfort women” thing just last week and was initially surprised. I’ve known about the “comfort women” since I was a kid, it seems like there’s still been no progress on the issue. Uh huh, add Japanese intransigence to all that harmony from homogeneity being experienced in Asia.
Wait, biff, you live in Asia, no?
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Legion:
Yeah, ababond and buddhuu both showed their support for rioting as an acceptable form of protest.
abagond quoted Martin Luther King. In other words, King is speaking for abagond and King said:
And I must say tonight that a riot is the language of the unheard. And what is it America has failed to hear? It has failed to hear that the plight of the negro poor has worsened over the last twelve or fifteen years. It has failed to hear that the promises of freedom and justice have not been met. And it has failed to hear that large segments of white society are more concerned about tranquility and the status quo than about justice and humanity..”
The foregoing is King’s — therefore abagond’s — rationalization that accepts rioting as a legitimate expression of black anger.
buddhuu wrote:
I’m as white as your @ss, but I tell you now I would have rioted the f~ck out of that place.
Was buddhuu unclear? Is the statement ambiguous? Did he confuse you?
He also stated:
You make black people out to be inherently violent and criminal. You’re a f~cking idiot. There’s this thing called empathy where you put yourself in the other person’s place. Would you take the murder of your neighbour’s kid lying down?
buddhuu takes things further by stating that people should respond to violence with more violence, even when it’s neighborhood-destroying, self-defeating violence.
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you know what is the ak47 is called the typewriter of the illiterate
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Re: riots
And another thing: what informed person doesn’t know that it is now a thing in the US that people show up from wherever to cause riots when a protest is happening? Cops “salted” the Occupy protests and activities with degenerates and criminals to get the NY Occupy groups to rot a little from within with violence and discord or whatever handy thing might occur to scuttle the protest that had been undertaken.
I’m not saying Ferguson’s first instance of looting/rioting was contrived. However, I just saw a headline that said new riots have happened but locals are claiming it’s outsiders from other communities showing up to make trouble.
(Not endorsing those Occupy people, by the way, if they were getting their piece of America they would never have protested any ills going on in the US.)
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@ sb
That is not what Dr King said. He said the riots were counterproductive, a point you made.
But, unlike you, he understood why people are driven to such desperate measures – whereas you snicker smugly at their apparent idiocy.
And unlike you (and Fox News), he understood the moral hypocrisy of condemning the riots without also condemning their cause.
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sb,
I know you like to be selective and you are highly ideological. Because of that, I should go back and read budduu’s new comments before answering you but I’m in need of limiting my internet time, so here goes:
buddhuu would have “rioted the f**k out of that place,” I imagine, not due to his basic hooligan nature (I’m kidding buddhuu) but rather out of his pent up social frustration. His years of pain at seeing injustice never answered.
As far as the King snippet goes that you posted all I can say is, you still don’t get it: social context, man. Got nothing to do with “supporting riots”.
Done.
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@ sb
Why haven’t these benefactors and financial contributors financed Black Empowerment institutions? Of course, BE institutions DON’T need any help from whites and, personally, I’m totally against handouts from people or groups who don’t have another people’s best interest at heart.
The Bill Gates Scholarship fund doesn’t erase the fact that he’s a key contributor to the silent killings of many innocent, helpless children.
http://birthofanewearth.blogspot.com/2013/11/bill-gates-and-unicef-kill-another.html
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sb32199 said,
You are a liar. That is not what I said.
What I did say was that I would have rioted in that situation.
I did not say that people should respond to violence with violence: that is a decision, and a responsibility, that each person must take for themselves. Nor did I say that rioting was acceptable: that is a value judgement that each person must make for themselves.
My words were placed in the context of empathy with the people of that town and their situation. I know myself. I know what my reaction would likely have been. If the people had decided to show their anger and frustration by rioting then I, a white man, would probably have joined them. I think it important that white people who see what is really going on should also stand against it – not just make concerned noises.
So, I understand that people who reach the point of having had enough, and who continue to have injury upon injury committed to them, may choose to respond violently. In my mind that is revolution of a kind. Furthermore, in such a case I would consider it an act of group self defence. Standing up to bullies and murders.
Hell, yes: I support that.
The looting cr^p is different. I consider that harmful to the actual cause and irrelevant to the issues. I hope the looters regretted their disastrous bad judgement.
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I am aware that there is another troll baiting me in this thread but I decline to engage with that person as he is also prone to misrepresenting people’s positions. He has both a rabid prejudice against my ideology and a profound misunderstanding of it. I have found from experience that it is not possible for me to have a rational discussion with that person.
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Why do you guys even bother to explain anything to this sb character? It’s a waste of time.
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The old saying: “Wherever there’s injustice [or oppression], there’s resistance and wherever there’s resistance, there’s injustice.”
– Unknown prophet.
Injustice and resistance (to the injustice) serve as antagonists toward one another. These actions are compared to lifting weights (e.g., bench pressing or leg pressing) – the weighted barbell is the injustice law enforcement (of Ferguson) and the weightlifter is the resisting people (of Ferguson). Resistance serves as a law of nature. It is only NATURAL for the Black people of Ferguson (and St. Louis) to do what they are doing.
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@ leigh204
Ashe (so it is), sister! You’re absolutely right.
But to say the very least, I’m just glad to post an informative comment.
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@ Michael Cooper:
True. I enjoy reading everyone’s enlightening comments with the exception of those sh*t disturbers who have nothing worthwhile to say. 😎
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@ leigh204
I have to give a big AMEN! to your last comment. I’m with you on those sh*t disturbers who have nothing worthwhile to say but to stink up the forum.
Peace and blessings, sister Leigh204.
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Sb, you have no idea…what makes you think any institutions you have mentioned have it right? As a matter of fact , I dont see what I am talking about addressed in the educational system at all…you dont get it , I have to retrain college degree musicians how to understand these concepts…
There is so little real information out there addressing the tragectory , origins, history , struggles and parralel similarities of concepts and obstacles of Afro diasporic culture
Someone mentioned about stereotyping and culture…absolutly , there is no monolithic obligation of anyone to practice the culture of their ethnic origin, I dont, and in cultural racism , a person of an ethnic background , gets stigmatised because of his phenotype..
Its the injustice to the Afro diasporic culture , and the people who get opressed because of an ethnic and phenotype background that needs to be addressed…a black American could not want to be into black culture , but they will be implicated culturaly for what they look like
Buddhuu, go suk on your punk rock band, I referance white commies and anarchists in Brazil because that is exactly what they self identify as…I didnt mention you or referance you , this is actual factual reality I live with and saw up close , and people need to hear about that
And you sound foolish about how ready you are to jump into a situation you really have no idea about , to riot…do you have any idea what a real riot is? The chaos , the the fog of what is happening , the mis information , the violence? That just sounds like ignorance and trying to boast to this blog
You dont address me because I see through your bs
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“Biff,
No need for a PhD dissertation, just a civil discussion using facts.
Linda says,
Interesting, Biff, you ask other people to do, what you don’t do yourself – discuss facts.
people disagree with you because you are coming to this party with a bag of illogical racist opinions, not facts
because as far as I’m concerned, that’s all HBD and it’s followers are- bunch of racist wind, masked in pseudoscience and half-a’sd intellegencia
sent out into the cyber world to deflect and divert…your job is to bring the firecrackers to the garden party to stir up the Natives… hope you’re having fun
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Now that the name of the police officer who killed Mike Brown has been revealed, it seems kind of fishy to me that they will all of a sudden pull out a surveillance video from a convenience store that Brown is alleged to have robbed for swisher sweets cigars. It very sketchy, i feel this is smoke and mirrors tactic the Ferguson police are using to cover up their ineptitude. There is something very fishy going on. Something is very rotten in Denmark indeed.
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I hate how the main stream media goes out of it’s way to spin the story of Ferguson and making it look like the black citizens are just a bunch of out of control crazy people. Without knowing all the facts. When the dominate culture sees this they perceive in their minds that black Americans are uncivilized. I have learned the looters didn’t even live in Ferguson, they just took advantage of the melee. I was watching MSNBC and i saw how many of the protesters approached the looters and asked them not to do this because they were exacerbating the conflict. I respect them for that. i am learning what the word “militarization” means. it’s pretty self explanatory, The police have military weaponry to attack American citizens, black American citizens in a poor community. They used this tactic on the Katrina victims as well with tanks and guns after many had lost their lives drowning to death and lost everything they owned and were experiencing PTS i am sure. This is how black American citizens are treated. It a disgrace and it’s an atrocity.
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legion writes:
Cops “salted” the Occupy protests and activities with degenerates and criminals to get the NY Occupy groups to rot a little from within with violence and discord or whatever handy thing might occur to scuttle the protest that had been undertaken.
During the Occupy Wall Street presence in NY City in the fall of 2011, there were no riots.
There some shoving matches between cops and protestors that led to some arrests. But due to the fact that the crowd was overwhelmingly white, and the fact that the protestors were more or less fish out of water, they were relatively well behaved.
Police Commissioner Kelly decided that an overwhelming police presence would keep a lid on possible violence. That plan worked, and finally the cold weather took over. In December when the Zuccotti crowd was feeling the chill and getting tired of drumming and chanting and living on hard ground, the cops booted them out of the park. It happened in the middle of the night. Early morning actually.
There was no resistance to the eviction. The crowd dispersed, and pretty much all of them went home to their parents.
I witnessed a lot of it and visited Zuccotti Park several times. The protestors were an amusing though unthreatening collection of goofballs and idealistic nitwits.
However, it was shown that the Working Families Party offered to pay protestors to create a little havoc. The effort seems to have yielded nothing, but there were ads on Craigslist that seemed to confirm the claims. The Working Families Party was as close to a political arm of Occupy Wall Street was there was likely to be.
The Occupy Wall Street scene is about as close as whites get to rioting. In the end, the individual white protestors felt as though they’d accomplished something if they yelled and screamed in some cop’s face.
By the way, about $700,000 in donations to Occupy Wall Street were deposited in an account at the Lower East Side Peoples’ Federal Credit Union. Unsurprisingly, the money disappeared around the same time as the two or three people with access to the account left town.
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BR writes:
Sb, you have no idea…what makes you think any institutions you have mentioned have it right?
Well then — who has it right? Is there a black nation somewhere that is leading blacks, and non-blacks, in the right direction? If so, the name of that nation would be quite a revelation.
As a matter of fact , I dont see what I am talking about addressed in the educational system at all…you dont get it , I have to retrain college degree musicians how to understand these concepts…
As if a society depends on its musicians. But, then again, Louis Farrakhan did start out as a musician. Look at all the goodness he’s brought to black culture in America.
Meanwhile, when you rant against “college degree musicians” it appears you mean musicians trained by whites. Or maybe you mean musicians who are white?
There is so little real information out there addressing the tragectory , origins, history , struggles and parralel similarities of concepts and obstacles of Afro diasporic culture
Oh. So that means those sections in Barnes & Noble devoted to African, African-American, Afro diasporic culture are just a collection of empty shelves? And does that mean the African Studies departments at colleges are also barren of anything you believe is worthwhile? How about the public libraries?
Considering that literacy is a huge problem in Africa and it’s a major problem among American blacks, it may be the case that blacks themselves are maintaining their own internal barriers against learning something substantive about whatever you want blacks to know.
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buddhuu, you wrote:
I’m as white as your @ss, but I tell you now I would have rioted the f~ck out of that place…
…You’re a f~cking idiot. There’s this thing called empathy where you put yourself in the other person’s place. Would you take the murder of your neighbour’s kid lying down?
Then you wrote:
You are a liar. That is not what I said.
What I did say was that I would have rioted in that situation.
That was clear and unambiguous.
I did not say that people should respond to violence with violence: that is a decision, and a responsibility, that each person must take for themselves. Nor did I say that rioting was acceptable: that is a value judgement that each person must make for themselves.
Yes, you did say people should respond to violence with more violence. That what is meant by saying:
Would you take the murder of your neighbour’s kid lying down?
You can try all day to un-break that egg, but you said it, so that’s that. And when it comes to violence, it becomes much easier for an individual to rationalize violence when he’s in the midst of a large group od individucals thinking and sharing the same thoughts.
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Kudos to the students at Howard University #Hands Up Don’t Shoot. A picture speaks a thousand words. In regards to all the recent shootings of young black people they represent many black youth in America who are vulnerable to brutality by racist law enforcers. It is no longer “Protect and Serve” It’s come to young people fearful for their lives and black parents fearful for their children’s lives as well. This in post racial 2014 America.
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Poor sb32199,
Trying so hard to race bait and getting so little attention that he has to double and triple post the usual nonsense. LOLing at him/her….
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The belief that all blacks are inherently prone to rioting, that black-led protest is tantamount to rioting and that supporting black protest is akin to supporting black rioting makes arguments like our friend sb32199’s much, much easier to swallow.
Of course, folks like sb32199 focus solely on the property damage, on the disturbances and on the black masses who, in their humble opinion, are “out looking for trouble” and “up to no good.” It’s a great attitude to have if the prevailing goal was to keep blacks as docile as possible and out of view as much as possible, except in designated areas and under approved scenarios. After all, you don’t want to see that black janitor out on the streets doing god-knows-what, but you do want to see him in the office the next day, ready to take out that trash and mop those floors.
And that’s the funny thing about the Mike Brown protest and the police response to it: because the people weren’t willing to quietly walk away and behave like good, docile little Negros, the police decided to enforce that provision by any means – short of murdering another black soul, of course. They’re not really “protecting property” or any kind of press release pablum – they’re trying to cow the black population into being silent, as they should have been in the first place.
As for sb32199? He’s just one of those malcontents who figures he can rile up people and make them “show their true colors,” whether for his own amusement or because someone, somewhere is actually paying him to post his drivel.
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They could easily hold their protest during the day or afternoon. That they choose to hold it at night shows they want to do things under the cover of darkness. There are photos and video of protestors lighting and throwing Molotov cocktails. More than a dozen businesses have been burnt down. That’s not “peaceful” protest but a riot. It doesn’t matter whether everyone there is throwing firebombs or not. If they are there then they are participating in a riot. They’re certainly not trying to stop it or help the police catch those doing it. Indeed, they show up night after night knowing that it’s going to happen again. There is a certain mentality that hates the police and will use every incident to incite hatred. This has become a regular thing where radicals pick an incident to make an issue of. Then the usual suspects howl, “Oh Lord! They killing us!” I can’t support riots or that type of racism. When I see that it drives me to support the police regardless of the circumstances surrounding Michael Brown. The police will investigate with oversight from the FBI and DOJ. The wheels of justice will turn and lead to justice most of the time. Why should I turn my back on a justice system that works to support a racist lynch mob? Police aren’t perfect but they’re still pretty darn good. I support them.
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sb32199, I’ve wasted enough time on you. Bye.
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The cigars thing is yet another diversion. Where is the real relevance unless theft is a capital offence in Amerikkka?
Even if Michael Brown did steal something, did the video show an armed robbery? Why was it necessary to kill him? It wasn’t. Same as with the majority of people the police murder, both in your country and in mine.
Smoke and mirrors.
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The real looters…
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@buddhuu
At least now you know.
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Dont be such a chump , Jefe…like you are so perfect on here…your interactions with Matari suked…I miss the input of a guy like Matari on this issue
Sb, there are people like Wynton Marsalis who have brought great wisdom and insight to the educational system , but , in general , books , words , things you might see at Barnes and Noble , cant really convey the essences of what Im talking about , maybe Western institutions arnt capable of really demonstrating this…I saw a docu called “Black Dance in America” that has incredible information , but , I cant find it on YouTube or repeated on tv…lucky I taped it , I already knew most of the info , but it solidifies it and reforces it to see it a few times , and refer to it…..and that is the thing about this information, if there us any little bit out there m it isnt reforced….
Its funny to , in relationship to the people of Ferguson…as I see the reports , I see faces and dialogues by black Americans , mid West black Americans, not unlike the community I socialised in….
Does anyone have any idea of the rich black American culture and heritage comes from St Louis and East St Louis ? It us incredibly rich and vibrant
I toured there with the Chicago free St Theater, played under the Arches, St Louis has a very racist history…but , our lead dancer used to be a dancer in the Kathurine Dunham dance company ….she was based out of East St Louis , and , her company invited us to visit….needless to say , even if she wasnt there ,,it was incredible…The brother of Miles Davis was there, he was a guest dancer….yes ,Miles Davis is from that área , so is Clark Terry, Lester Bowie, and many others…people need to know of the rich black American heritage and culture that comes from that area, and see a police occupation from that standpoint
Did you have any idea of that cultural heritage , Sb? Will they convey that in the news , or does Barnes and Noble show that , or Black American studies classes ? Or Jefe? Or would Budduu understand that as an outsider coming in ready to riot the hades out of the place….good point Mary Burrell
People better be hyper aware or hyper knowledgable of the área , people and on the ground situation before they riot …I support the people there…I want them to decide if they want to riot or not…I might end up breaking something of someone who has lived there for a long time if I came from the outside ready to riot against police authority…the police caused the rioting in the first place because of their behavior
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According one study Swat teams were emplyed in US in 1998 roughly 200 times a year. In 2008 50 000 times a year. Today roughly 160 times a day.
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Abagond,
I don’t know if you mentioned it but you do know that the previous Ferguson police chief went to Israel in 2011 for counter-terrorism training (Israel does have the best security in the world) and it was these counter-terrorism tactics that were used against the protestors
“Iranian-American activist and author, Trita Parsi, leader of the National Iranian American Council, shared a statement released by Ferguson’s Chief of Police (March 25, 2011) announcing that he had been trained on how to ‘prevent terror attacks’ in Israel.”
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“It has been revealed that the chiefs of both police departments (St. Louis and Ferguson) have travelled to Israel for training, to learn tactics and strategies on security, intelligence and counterterrorism.
Both police departments used former military vehicles, equipment and riot gear to quell protestors in Ferguson.
According to journalist Max Blumenthal, the United States militarized police began after September 11, when American law enforcement officers began to training in Israel for counter-terrorism expertise, with all expenses paid.
The New York Police Department’s disclosure that it deployed ‘counter-terror’ measures against Occupy protesters encamped in downtown Manhattan’s Zuccotti Park is just the latest example of the so-called War on Terror creeping into every day life. Revelations like these have raised serious questions about the extent to which Israeli-inspired tactics are being used to suppress the Occupy movement.
The Anti-Defamation League has also provided Israeli-run training senssions to over 700 police officers through its course on Extremist and Terroist Threats and claims to have provided a background in Israeli perspectives to another 45,000 through its Law Enforcement and Society program, which is required training for all new FBI agents.”
http://beforeitsnews.com/alternative/2014/08/ferguson-invaded-by-irsaeli-idf-3011192.html
So, no one should be surprised anymore about the military tactics that the local police are willing to use against US citizens… this is the wave of the future
–actually, it’s been the wave since Bush signed the Patriot Act.
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Linda said: –actually, it’s been the wave since Bush signed the Patriot Act.
Point certainly taken Linda, I agree. To add: The seed bed, so to speak, goes back even further, to the early 90’s. It was being observed that a creeping 3rd world structure was being implemented here and there in the US. Third world meaning the Latin America of the 80’s and further back, infamous for their Death Squads. The militarization of American police is a sort of shadow of the full on Death Squad.
Death Squads aside, you said the whole thing looked like Gaza. I was much reminded, for some reason, of Tiananmen Square.
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Actually, in the case of Kenneth Chamberlin Sr., the police were very much like a Death Squad…
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Linda writes:
…you do know that the previous Ferguson police chief went to Israel in 2011 for counter-terrorism training (Israel does have the best security in the world) and it was these counter-terrorism tactics that were used against the protestors
What is disturbing or unsettling about a former police chief getting some lessons in counter-terrorism in Israel?
Second, crowd-control, if it’s any part of “counter-terrorism”, is a small part. However, someone from the Boston Police Department must have attended the same training session. It took no time at all to spot the Boston Marathon bombers and catch them. Okay, one was killed.
Third, what “counter-terrorism” tactics were used against the protestors? Whatever those tactics were, they seem to have kept the loss of life at zero and arrests at a low number.
When confrontations arise, would you prefer the police to just wing it? Do you think it’s wrong for the police to outsmart and outmaneuver potential troublemakers?
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BR writes:
Sb, there are people like Wynton Marsalis who have brought great wisdom and insight to the educational system , but , in general , books , words , things you might see at Barnes and Noble , cant really convey the essences of what Im talking about , maybe Western institutions arnt capable of really demonstrating this…
In other words, though you know nothing is perfect, you do know access to every aspect of black culture is wide open.
Does anyone have any idea of the rich black American culture and heritage comes from St Louis and East St Louis ? It us incredibly rich and vibrant…
…Did you have any idea of that cultural heritage , Sb? Will they convey that in the news , or does Barnes and Noble show that , or Black American studies classes ?
Anyone who wants to know about black culture, and involve himself in it, is able to indulge himself to whatever level he chooses — in the US. But it wouldn’t be smart to indulge oneself in American-style black culture while living in Nigeria where Boko Haram is operating.
But then you wrote this:
……the police caused the rioting in the first place because of their behavior.
Unfortunately, it’s this final thought that seems to be an accepted part of black logic.
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Well, well, well, I’m actually firing up the word processor for this one. I do not want to derail the thread but there is some interesting differences in my observation as a phenotypical ‘white’ person that may differ from a ‘non-white’ person.
I had a couple people tell me, in different ‘confined’ ie lock down situations: jail, mental hospital, rehab too… there’s always going to be one person that is going to get picked on or ‘ostracized’ in any social situation, and there doesn’t need to be a restricted area surrounding people for this to occur.
In terms of what that coupled with white ‘training’ or ‘indoctrination’ that we, as american white people, learn through millions of micro-events throughout life, that could account for individual, or something like that, on a ‘micro scale’, racism.
What we’re seeing in Ferguson, other than a few notable media examples, like Sterling, Imus, Henry Gates, etc. is, ostensibly for the first time since the 1960’s, the scope of on a macro level scale of what could be deemed institutional racism.
My friends, but not my people – as constantly on this blog it comes up ie. “white people” “the black community”, always dividing – may support blacks and the citizens of america in general (for me there is a lot of blurred lines now as I try to process these because it’s going beyond ‘black and white’ for me!), but the police are supposed to be unquestionable, sort of like money or faith in Jesus Christ. ‘In god we trust,’ right?
So, as always in a Hollywood movie, if you running past 90 minutes, or it’s not exciting enough, put a timer on it! So, for me to the issue of time-criticality (is that a word) has been introduced. For example, the LA riots did not last a week.
In summation, I hope to continue this further, but I got this far and someone is knocking on ‘my’ door, most people, I mean whites here, if you truly wish to foster inter-race relations in the usa, I strongly encourage you to look at as a sort of child who does not know a math lesson, one very dangerous with a gun or in a crowd, but, it really will start one person at a time. My buddy on fb, a black woman, who is very upset with these things going on and about racism in general really started me thinking, how can this be addressed, and I guess if you were to dive into one of the threads here it would just be too much for a ‘average white’ person, a, that’s not all about writing and stuff like most of us are here, I mean there is some intellectual activity here, and b. just not in a position to have extended interaction with black people or is just effin clueless, well it’s up to all of us.
I’ve said this before, I really don’t want to see this tape played out to the end.
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@abagond can you please delete moddied comment
in my opinion it will take everyone to take control of our government back, and then higher level issues can be address, ie nuclear weapon control, alternative energy, all that liberal ish, then, right? well that’s just me
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idk about privacy settings on this one, i don’t have time for all that!
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but the other really important thing is that a considered response is required for the ‘governement’ at large to understand that this is unacceptable. it could be just more and more people protesting but as the tear gas flies, and persons unknown (wearing a uniform or not) are now popping off rounds, it is more becoming like a combat situation, and the cops will not run out of tear gas or bullets.
something new, i think… not sure what
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Militarized police force is bad for everyone.
Here’s an unrelated example:
http://www.tampabay.com/news/publicsafety/crime/informer-not-neighbor-complaints-led-up-to-fatal-tampa-pot-raid/2187316
“A man who had partied at Westcott’s home was plotting to rob him. An itinerant motorcycle mechanic, Westcott didn’t have much — two televisions and a handgun that once belonged to his brother were perhaps the most valuable possessions in his 600-square-foot house in Seminole Heights — but he was terrified by his would-be intruder’s threats to kill him.
Police tracked down the suspect and warned him to stay away. Westcott, those close to him said, was left with a word of advice from the investigating officers: If anyone breaks into this house, grab your gun and shoot to kill.
On the night of May 27, as armed men streamed through his front door, Westcott grabbed his gun. But the 29-year-old didn’t have a chance to shoot before he died in a volley of gunfire. And those who killed him weren’t robbers.
They were police officers from the same agency he had enlisted to protect his home.”
Marginalized people feel the brunt of police excesses but a well armed and well trained death squad in service of the state is a threat to everyone.
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@B.R
It maybe a pity that your analysis of global US hegemony falls short of the current true (but much hidden) real world reality. However. Your analysis of, as you say, Afro diasporic culture and its feared historical domination is spot on and very well articulated here in your response to Origin’s comment:
This is a an excellent illustration:
:
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Há , Kwamla , maybe if we sat down face to face, we might see more eye to eye on the international scene, my objetive was always saying the castros, Chavezs , are the same as the corporate predatory domination…
But , you see this blindness from Sb about black culture when he implies the information is out there for those who want to find it….how can people find it when it is hammered home that it doesnt exist..? For decades…lies , theft , apropriation , abheration …and white Ameticans walk around virtualy doing a bad job of immitating black culture , but think it is their culture
When Sb can linc up some information anywhere that sais the messages and concepts passed to us from the ancient Africans , are as important to human developement , civilisation and humanity , as anything the Greeks , Romans , Indians , Chinese, Arabs , native Americans , Egyptians, etc, then I will respect his argument
When people realise they dont have to only bring up the Egyptions and African black muslims as the high examples of advanced human concepts , civilisation, and value to humanity coming out of Africa, and start reffering to the Igbo , Dogon , Níger Congo, , Ghana , Ogeno, Benin, Senegal , Sierra Leone , cultures in Malawi , Tanzânia , Kenya,Uganda, etc, etc ,( there are so many other tribes involved in this)as referances and origins of incredible concepts developed thousands of years ago , that come all the way down into the present to affect the world in an enormous and quantifiable way, only then would Sb have a point….but this value to humanity is sluffed over in a big way
And your referances to the Dogon , the gold mining in Africa going back thousands of years , with calanders , are more valuable information for all if us to take another look at what has come to humanity and civilisation from the people that have been robbed of their history and rightful place in what we consider valuable contributions to our developement as humans walking this planet earth
Im in the states now ,passing through for some gigs, and , I am floored to see the wonderful residents of Ferguson , expressing themselves culturaly , with a guy in the middle playing a drum kit and people dancing to his beat…this is a powerful cultural statement for me , who understands exactly the value and meaning
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jefe,
Does that mean that there is no chance of planning a nonviolent civil disobedience event that non-blacks can also participate in.
I also mean something huge that can bring-in those who can arrive easily by land, say the area between Chicago and Memphis and Nashville, Louisville and Indianapolis over to Kansas City.
There is a chance. And let me backtrack a bit. Maybe riot was the wrong word to use. But it seems like America has gotten ‘immune’ to peaceful demonstrations and civil disobedience, in my opinion.
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I had no idea things had gotten so bad. Like most I thought it was the war on Gaza. I have no problem admitting that we are in a police state.
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Hey guys, there is a video where an eyewitness is heard explaining exactly what he saw – this happens right after the shooting. He says that Brown was in the cop car and a shot went off, then Brown ran and the cop followed. Brown then turned around and rushed at the cop who then fired. Now the autopsy makes some sense – no shots in the back and one on the top of the head (charging position).
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2014/08/18/youtube-video-captures-purported-witness-backing-police-version-in-ferguson/
Time to call off the rioters.
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Omg at work i take great pains to avoid religion and politics, but ferguson came up and i stated there’s goin to be a rally in philly this week to protest what’s going on there, i put it like the government is going too far – when pressed. This rich white guy he says what business do people in philly have protesting that? I quickly bowed out at that point.
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^At work. I wish i could go to the rally but im in the field.
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@hossandfeffer,
You trolls are hilarious. “Call off the rioters”? You mean the cops dressed up like a paramilitray force, tear gassing folks and threatening journalists? Sure, they should absolutely stop rioting.
So let’s deal with this magical thinking…”Brown was in the car”….hmmm, how did he get there? None of the witnesses said that….magic!
…”and a shot went off”…it just “went off”, huh? Was there some special magic involved? We know Brown was unarmed so….
…”then Brown ran and the cop followed”…well…okay…
…”Brown then turned around and rushed the cop who then fired”…wait..what!? ..he’s running away and then…for some reason…oh I know, MJ! made him do it…he charged like a wild rampaging failing beast at the cop who before then never lifted his voice, much less his gun, in anger and then!!!
Stop it…
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ks
I’m just going off what the witness said. He rushed the cop – if you don’t believe the eye-witness, that’s up to you. Surely, you don’t still believe the “shot in the back” story?
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hossandfeffer
Actually I am not sure there ever was a shot in the back story. From the stories I heard he turned faced the cop and put his hands up (as indicated in protest pictures) and stated I am unarmed don’t shoot. That would also explain head shots etc.
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Sharina
I don’t know if the story was he got shot in the actual “back” but definitely on his back side as opposed to front side. His accomplice Dorian Johnson clearly states this in his interview at about 2:00 –
http://colorlines.com/archives/2014/08/witness_to_michael_browns_killing_explains_what_he_saw.html
Did you listen to the other eyewitness? A guy who watched the whole thing and was talking minutes after the shooting.
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2014/08/18/youtube-video-captures-purported-witness-backing-police-version-in-ferguson/
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hossandfeffer,
Like I said, stop it. There are several witnesses who all tell a similar story. Most of them have already been interviewed by some combination of the Feds, lawyers and journalists and the meat of their stories mesh with the available forensic evidence so far.
Now, you’re backpedalling as the only person who mentioned “back” did so in an unclear manner which I knew already. Also Dorian Johnson wasn’t an accomplice because he didn’t steal anything and wasn’t and won’t be charged with theft. In fact, the store video indicates he put the cigs Brown gave him back on the counter before they left the store.
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Dorian Johnson said he was shot and then turned around – that means he was shot with his back towards the cop. No back pedaling. sorry.
Did you listen to the new eyewitness?
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2014/08/18/youtube-video-captures-purported-witness-backing-police-version-in-ferguson/
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hossandfeffer
“His accomplice Dorian Johnson clearly states this in his interview at about 2:00”—In the video he said “he shot again and once my friend felt that shot he turned around and put his hands in the air….”Now this can be interpreted as being shot in the “back” or back region, but putting street slang into the mix that could mean also felt as in felt the vibration of the shot.
“Did you listen to the other eyewitness? A guy who watched the whole thing and was talking minutes after the shooting.”—I read that and according to the video it did not appear he was an eye witness so I am not sure of the relevance.
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Hossandfeffer,
Hahaha…as Charles Barkley might say…”that’s turrible” spin. Do you think people here are gullible? The Fox News article is a total hedge. lol. First the person, isn’t a “new witness”. Second, most of what the article says is in line with the other witnesses. Third, I didn’t see any mention in the article doesn’t mention “charging or rushing”. It said the witness claimed Brown “came toward the officer” at some point which is consistent with the other witnesses (surrendering with hands in the air).
Finally the “witness backing police version.” That’s just a misleading headline to draw in the dullwitted. There is no offical police version yet because they haven’t released the incident report yet and, any “version” the idiot police chief is giving has, and will contiue to, change on the fly.
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Sharina
He clearly explains what he saw – what are you talking about? Of course he is an eye-witness. Here’s a bit of what he said
1 How’d he get from there to there?
#2 Because he ran, the police was still in the truck – cause he was like over the truck
{crosstalk}
#2 But him and the police was both in the truck, then he ran – the police got out and ran after him
{crosstalk}
#2 Then the next thing I know he doubled back toward him cus – the police had his gun drawn already on him –
#1. Oh, the police got his gun
#2 The police kept dumpin on him, and I’m thinking the police kept missing – he like – be like – but he kept coming toward him
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Is there a video displaying the whole incident and not just the aftermath? If so why are they so quick to release a drug store incident with Brown and not quick to release that video, which I am sure the press also wants.
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hossandfeffer
I am not sure what you are talking about, but none of the videos you posted have what you just transcribed to me. One video is of the friend and the other is of a reporter who was arrested by this militarized cop. Of the links it has to click on is a video of a guy who is videoing the dead body and talking to people in the neighborhood about it.
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“His accomplice Dorian Johnson”
Crime?
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Here’s another witness who says he was shot in the back
“According to Tiffany Mitchell, who spoke to Don Lemon on CNN Tonight, Brown was trying to pull away from the officers, and then the officer was pulling him into the car when a shot was fired from inside the car. Mitchell said that she saw Brown break free and start running and that “the kid’s body jerked as if he was hit from behind and he turned around and he puts his hands up like this, and the cop continued to fire, until he just dropped down to the ground and his face smacked the concrete.”
http://www.theroot.com/articles/culture/2014/08/new_witness_gives_her_account_of_michael_brown_shooting.html
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Hossandfeffer
Also as a quick note. You may want to give your source some credit because you copied and pasted your transcript and I found it here: http://theconservativetreehouse.com/2014/08/17/the-hidden-audio-of-mike-brown-shooting-eye-witness-a-witness-conversation-unknowingly-captured-at-the-scene-of-the-ferguson-shooting-is-a-game-changer/
I will relook at the video and respond in a few.
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Sharina,
Hey there. Yep, it’s waht you say. It’s just more dubious nonsense from the usual suspects. He’s hoping that we will turn “doubled back” and “coming toward him” into rampaging charging wild beast instead of being what it is, which is, consistent with the other witnesses who stated that Brown stopped and surrendered.
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It’s bascially the Conservative Treehouse nuts trying to replay the Zimmerman defense.
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hossandfeffer,
So, “the kid’s body jerked as if he was hit from behind and he turned around and he puts his hands up like this, and the cop continued to fire, until he just dropped down to the ground and his face smacked the concrete.”…
Apparently “as if he was hit from behind…” means to you only one thing…”Here’s another witness who says he was shot in the back”! Right. What’s interesting is how you ignore that the majority of the quote matches the other eyewitnesses and the autopsy report.
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hossandfeffer
None of them are saying he was shot in the back. Even this new source says ” jerked as if he was hit from behind . You seem to be reading into something that is not being said directly. You are free to interpret it as you feel necessary, but not to make it seem as if that it exactly what they said.
“but he kept coming toward him”—This portion of the video is actually inaudible (for me atleast).
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Ks
Long time no see. Where have you been hiding?
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Here’s a lady that says he shot him once and he fell and then the cop shot him six more times while the cop was in the car. So here the cop was in the car and Brown was on the ground being shot. This and the two above are your witnesses – quite a varied story.
at 5:00:
(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K8Lsn8xVc5U)
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Sharina,
Just putting the work in at work. Plus, the summer weather here in NYC has been amazingly nice so I’ve been out and about enjoying the town while the Hamptons crowd is gone.
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KS
“Apparently “as if he was hit from behind…” means to you only one thing”
Um yeah, it means HIT FROM BEHIND. What does that mean to you?
Dorian Johnson says, ““he shot again and once my friend felt that shot he turned around and put his hands in the air”
What does THAT mean to you? What do you infer from the phrase “TURNED AROUND”?
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hossandfeffer,
Give it up. The Conservative Outhouse ginned up spin they are trying to push through Fox News isn’t getting any traction. And, I’m not chasing your other dubious twists and turns down the rabbit hole.
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@ hossandfeffer
“Hit from behind” and “shot in the back” are not necessarily the same thing. And in the case of this autopsy the difference matters: Brown was not shot in the back according to the autopsy but he was shot in the part of the forearm that would face the police when running away. The autopsy picture puts Brown in a laying down position, which is different from a running away position.
The doctors say that from the autopsy they could not tell whether he was moving towards or away from the police, but they could tell that he fell on his face dead.
Tiffany Mitchell’s account is consistent with the autopsy:
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hossandfeffer
I am sure there were plenty of witnesses, but so far none seem to say he was shot in the back as you have clearly stated above.
“as if he was hit from behind”—ummm that is what you interpret it to mean, but it actually means it looks like he might have been. Not actually was. I know you were talking to KS but I needed to point that out. Again your interpretation is not the definite of its meaning. Same with the second quote. Him feeling a shot still does not say he was shot from behind.
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Dred Scott’s grave is just six miles down the road from Ferguson. He is buried in Calvary Cemetery, which is on West Florissant Avenue, the very same street we have been hearing so much about during the Ferguson protests.
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Okay; they pick up the guy for jay walking…..he gets out of the car.
Did they forget to lock the doors or something? I guess he may have fought his way out but that seems unlikely.
Than he starts running, cops start shooting, gets hit in the forearm, surrenders and they shoot him in the top of the head.
Than the cops try to cover their tracks and in general do a bad job of an investigation.
And of course unsurprisingly enough this all takes place in Mississippi.
Now whether they did this because they are racist sociopaths, non-racist sociopaths, didn’t cool down quick enough from firing at him when he was running away.
This is a person not fit to be a cop for a number of potential reasons however you want to look at it.
As for the general tactics used by the cops for rioting; don’t really know much about that to comment but just going off the hook and punching women in the face seems kind of off to me.
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So i am working with this rich white guy again yesterday at another one of his stores, and another higher ranking officer of his organization, a white ex-cop is there. So they start discussing ferguson, and what everybody’s talking about now, the autopsy results, and btw if that wasnt the most quickly released second autopsy results ever…
But this whole spin factor of this angle of gunfire etc made it something the owner could understand, not faceless angry crowds and a threat to society. It was a simple tactical error, and the man behind the trigger was judged, in their logic, to be on his way to jail for having violated set police procedure. It really seemed to soothe the owner. And of course since everyone thats watching tv over the last decade or two is inundated with police procedural stories: svu, ncis, csi, etc etc, it is a very dangerous move by the government to steal impetus from the movement, one could say ‘well played’ even if this was a game.
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And if youre with me so far on that one and dial that tangent in one more notch, tv shows (and movies) with ‘rogue cops’ who are edgy and breaking (all) the rules but just taking the worst offenders off the streets like the shield, chicago 187, gang related etc etc has been also mentally ‘preparing’ us for this day for some time now.
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@v4 its missouri. Right by st louis, a large and important city
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just listen to the people of Ferguson …I mean really listen to the people from the community about what is going on
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[…] of the case and demanded the name of the officer responsible. In no time, police became more militant with armored vehicles rubber bullets, tear gas bombs, flash grenades and sound cannons. Scenes […]
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According to a Pew poll:
% who agree with:
1. The police shooting of an African American teen in Ferguson, Missouri raises important issues about race:
80% Blacks, 37% Whites
2. Police response to shooting has gone too far:
65% Blacks, 33% Whites
I agree with both.
http://www.people-press.org/2014/08/18/stark-racial-divisions-in-reactions-to-ferguson-police-shooting/
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Yep. Fifty years of change. Change? What changed?
The other color – lacking people’s have proven again that they are the enemy. Nor an ally in the bunch. The youtube comments on the video of that one slick – haired uncle Tom preacher proves it. The police and the rest of the non-commercial think we are all animals.
Don’t act like you haven’t seen their comments. Don’t act like they like us. They don’t like us. Any of us. Time to tell it like it is, Abagond.
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i’m glad the people can use social media to tell what is happening, tumblr and twitter especially are full of vids and pics people have taken of the protest and how the police are attacking people. We get to see what the mainstream media isn’t showing from people stopping looters to people giving food to protestors. people from other countries are watching and supporting, that is amazing.
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The thing that’s sad about all this is; I have to imagine corruption and racism like this would be pretty easy to curtail if Obama/the government were to do something as simple as “all police must wear cameras while on duty”.
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And here is the Big picture why all this stuff is going on in Ferguson and elsewhere:
http://www.theguardian.com/environment/earth-insight/2014/jun/13/uk-defence-fight-poor-activists-minorities-marxists-commies
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It is happening around the world
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Like so:
http://www.theguardian.com/environment/earth-insight/2014/jun/12/pentagon-mass-civil-breakdown?CMP=twt_gu
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The POTUS finally sent the Attorney General there. Glad to see it moved up the agenda.
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The results of the autopsy suggest the officer’s account was reasonably accurate.
http://news.msn.com/us/police-move-against-protesters-as-calm-dissolves-in-ferguson-missouri
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@ sb
That article says no such thing.
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@ sam
Thank you for those 2 articles.
There I was asking myself why hadn’t Mr Obama already visited Ferguson? But then, I remembered that pretty early on in his presidency he said that the police acted “stupidly” and, he might as well have come out as a commie or an anti-American for saying so, considering the backlash he got.
He ended up having to have a beer with the cop in question.
http://www.boston.com/news/politics/gallery/073009_beer_summit_obama/
From that moment, I knew this: no, no way are things going to get better, the lynching is going to continue, because his opponents will not him LEAD.
If it’s matters of race, the conservative hard-line will, inevitably, harden.
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abagond writes:
That article says no such thing.
Inasmuch as the autopsy has stood by itself as news, it seemed to me there was no reason to post yet another article about it.
I was not suggesting the article I posted made any claims about the autopsy. The article was just current coverage of the situation.
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jesus christmas yet again i feel like i have to apologize for the white race
“Missouri lt. gov.: We need ‘Anglo-American’ justice in Ferguson, not racial protests”
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V8
I don’t feel you do. You can not and should not be accountable for bigots.
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I think the new census is going to have Anglo-American as a category.
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oh wow look at that it hooked into my fb posting and gave a preview, that must be knew
@sharinalr is that you sharina with a new name?
well it’s difficult, the white people that will suffer are the ones that are on the fence and get lumped in with these idiots (not meaning that to be self-serving or facetious)
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V8 said:
Me too, but I know it is meaningless to do so. For an apology to be worth a damn it has to be made by those who have offended, and it has to be sincere.
At very least I feel like running around asking people to please not consider me part of the whiteness that can do this kind of thing.
But our anger and embarrassment is irrelevant. It’s not about us, it’s about Michael Brown, Henry Davis, Trayvon Martin and more others than I can list…
And I’m not being patronising to you, V8 – I know that you already know what it’s about. I’m just acknowledging the priorities here.
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“According to a Pew poll:
% who agree with:
1. The police shooting of an African American teen in Ferguson, Missouri raises important issues about race:
80% Blacks, 37% Whites
2. Police response to shooting has gone too far:
65% Blacks, 33% Whites”
I saw it too and thought it was typical. If whites lose their ability to intimidate with overwhelming violence racial injustice (worldwide) is done. So of course most are going to cheer on this kind of show of force just as they picnicked at the lynchings of the past. Ferguson is instinctively understood for what it is. It is a microcosm of the way whites, as a group, have related to those who are not white for centuries.
“In Gun we trust”.
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From that same Pew poll, those who have at least a fair amount of confidence in the investigations into the shooting:
65% Republicans
52% Whites
45% Americans
38% Democrats
18% Blacks
Which shows the most Blacks and most Republicans have a very different understanding of how the country works. Given how most police brutality cases turn out, most Republicans are either profoundly ignorant or delusional.
http://www.people-press.org/2014/08/18/stark-racial-divisions-in-reactions-to-ferguson-police-shooting/
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@v8driver
Yes, it is me. Depending on what device I am on will depend on how it shows up.
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Saw this today. http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-nation/wp/2014/08/20/police-officer-suspended-for-pointing-rifle-at-protesters-threatening-them/
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@V8,
That article was….ummmm….interesting. Here’s a copy of one of the comments that I found enlightening.
From the Daily Kos:
“Driving while black in Ferguson…Very simply, a town that bankrolls itself through racial profiling and harassment of minority citizens in penny ante driving violations which are then ratcheted up in both costs and ramifications through manipulative measures, is EXACTLY the kind of place where a jaywalking offense would spiral out of control.
Despite Ferguson’s relative poverty, fines and court fees comprise the second largest source of revenue for the city, a total of $2,635,400 according to the ArchCity Defenders report. And in 2013, the Ferguson Municipal Court issued 24,532 arrest warrants and 12,018 cases or about 3 warrants and 1.5 cases per household.
Exacerbating the problem, the report says, are a number of operational procedures that make it even more difficult for defendants to navigate the courts. A Ferguson court employee reported, for example, that “the bench routinely starts hearing cases 30 minutes before the appointed time and then locks the doors to the building as early as five minutes after the official hour, a practice that could easily lead to a defendant arriving even slightly late to receive an additional charge for failure to appear.”
Ferguson police chief and mayor are white. Of the six City Council members, one is black. The local school board has six white members and one Latino. Of the 53 commissioned officers on the police force, three are black, said Police Chief Thomas Jackson.
Well, one of the fruits of disparate policing and the spiraling of charges and the mass transformation of an entire population into fugitives due to outstanding bench warrants is that same population has now been successfully disenfranchised of their vote. Felons don’t vote…and fugitives don’t vote.”
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The governor and the mayor of Ferguson are stooges, they are so out of touch with the people the community of Feguson, maybe it’s not about them being out of touch may they just don’t give a rat’s behind. SMH.
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*Ferguson*
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Abagond
Curious of your take on this one. http://news.stlpublicradio.org/post/st-louis-police-release-video-calls-city-shooting
Guy appears to be mentally ill.
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And have you noticed a theme with these cops handcuffing the dead.
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I am thankful for Eric Holder i guess he says what POTUS is unable to say.
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@Sharina: Yes, i thought i was the only one who noticed this it’s gruesome and disgusting.
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Glad to see you haven’t missed a beat Abagond. As for Ferguson, to silence the ignorant and false claims of “them riotin’ blakz r burnin down their own homez”, the AP just released a report that confirms what the non-based folks have been saying all along. That it’s mainly outside folks coming in and trying to exacerbate the whole thing.
http://m.apnews.com/ap/db_268773/contentdetail.htm?contentguid=ESvqHtGm
Of the 163 people arrested, a whopping 7 were from Ferguson. Makes me wonder if this has been happening with other riots.
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Mary
You are not and it is just sick. No one in there right mind handcuffs a person who is already dead. Photos of lynched black men comes to mind every time I see these type incidents.
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@ Franklin:
Probably. I don’t know about the USA, but in the UK it is pretty routine for trouble-makers to hitch themselves up to pretty much any large protest. Some are opportunist criminals such as looters, others are general malcontents who are angry at the state of things are glad of an opportunity to let off steam, and still others are hooligans who just like violence.
The media usually misidentifies such people as “anarchists”.
It is a serious problem for the organisers of large protests because the behaviour of the violent outsiders is reported as an aspect of the core protest and the reputation and credibility of the cause is tarnished.
For this reason I believe that some agents of trouble are planted by law enforcement or government to justify strong response.
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What’s so shocking to me is we’ve got ISIS abroad, Hispanics are about to take White people over, and still many White Americans seem to be fixated on evil-Black-people.
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America and Australia seem to be the worst; it’s like some evolutionary process ejected the worst from England.
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@Ebonymonroe
“America and Australia seem to be the worst; it’s like some evolutionary process ejected the worst from England.”
That is actually true. It’s well known that Australia started as a penal colony, but America had similar beginnings. Georgia was founded as a penal colony, and prior to 1850, most Europeans brought to any colony in America were convicts and indentured servants (a white word for slaves). Canada had a similar history.
Of course most white Americans are descendants of immigrants who came after 1880, and many of whom were convicts, ex-cons and vagabonds.
So it doesn’t surprise me that so many Americans actually support the heinous act of this scumbag police officer because they really don’t have any ingrained system of morality. Not only were many of their ancestors criminals, they or their parents or grandparents grew up in a society where racism and hate crimes against blacks were tolerated. Just like the Michael Brown shooting, there was always an excuse for lynching blacks, even if it were completely irrelevant or untrue or both.
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This is interesting video about the police pointing guns at Ferguson protesters and saying “I’ll f..ing kill you.” Notice how the general counsel’s excuse is “fatigue” but how the other guy knows that the first rule is you don’t point a gun at a person unless you are going to and that this has been going on since day 1, which couldn’t possibly be due to fatigue. http://outfront.blogs.cnn.com/2014/08/20/police-to-ferguson-protesters-i-will-f-kill-you/?hpt=ob_articlefooter&iref=obnetwork
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@ Ebonymonroe
Right, to add to what resw77 said, White American culture is built on the dehumanization of Blacks. The way Whites excuse the killing of Michael Brown fits a template that goes back at least to the early 1700s when they excused slavery. And, later, excused lynching. That part of their culture has never been rooted out.
Also: their police departments (and gun culture) grew, in part, out of slave patrols and were largely untouched by the civil rights reforms that overthrew Jim Crow.
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@ Mary Burrell
Why are you thankful for Eric Holder; what did he say or do?
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when the victim has done something they use it to try to justify their murder but when they can’t find anything we hardly hear about the case much. yes they do handcuff the dead, Jonathan Ferrell was handcuffed after he was killed and it wasn’t removed until his body got to the medical examiners office.
it seems 2012 was the year of excusing the murder of Trayvon martin and Jordan davis by saying they shouldn’t have dressed the way they did or resisted white male authority.
2013 Jonathan Ferrell and Renisha McBride killed after seeking help after car crash, excuse: well they should’ve been more careful and not pounding on doors.
now it seems 2014 is the year of kill a black person and excuse their murder by bringing up tape of them shoplifting. both murders of mike brown and Kajieme Powell happened miles apart from each other. smh what’s next years excuse gonna be.
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@Res & Aba
Wooow! I had no idea much of the colonies were literally made up of criminals and the England’s lower classes. That puts a lot into perspective, thanks so much for the info. And it goes without saying that the values established by the forefathers would continue on institutionally if not individually. That’s shocking!
Yes @Aba there had to be a hate campaign after emancipation to keep things going as they had been up to that point: the Dunning school version of the civil war, anti Yankees/carpet baggers and most of all, the uprising of the vicious Negr0e$. Birth of a nation is a great example of the propaganda of that time. In fact, those “values” are so deep rooted from institution to institution there’s a monumental statue of Albert Pike in front of Harvard, (if I’m not mistaken), who is also the founder of the KKK.
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@ Mary Burrell
I have done some slight updating on the Ferguson news. Holder is providing reassurance to Brown’s parents about the nascent Federal investigation; I guess you were encouraged by that. My view is that mere damage control is occurring. Even if the cop who killed Brown were found guilty of murder and incarcerated, root race problems and increasing State violence against the domestic population (militarized police, government spying on citizens) won’t be addressed by the Obama government. The situation in Ferguson is more than Michael Brown. It always is.
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Legion
I agree. The issues run much deeper and I have no hopes of it being addressed.
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@ Ebonymonroe:
Oh yes, America became a dumping grounds for Europe, a place for convicts, Jews, vagabonds, whores, economic failures and religious nuts. Thus the not-so-glorious founding of American society:
The racial slur “cracker” comes out of that history:
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@Ebonymonroe
It’s not just the descendants of the English, but obviously the Irish, and many other groups that came to America. It is little known, but Germany secretly sent convicts to the US due to its overcrowding prisons. These were not just some run of the mill pickpockets, but often the worst of the worst, including many murderers (remember more white Americans count German heritage). And I have to agree that values or lack thereof are passed down through the generations, and this is just a few generations ago.
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@Aba and Res
You guys have blown my mind with that information, I really had no idea! I think that frames everything! Think about the cocaine cowboys of the 70’s from the Cuban crimewave after Castro dumped his undesireables on Miami and replace Cubans with Whites and the cocaine economy with slavery. Many White Americans do seem to be Germanic it’s true. Imagine an entire country being founded by another’s undesireables . . .. there was always going to be dysfunction from that recipe.
@Cr@cker’s origins . . .wth? It just gets more profound
Instead of committing genocide they dumped all their unwanted in another land and those “unwanteds” committed genocide! This is all too much for me.
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I also heard the oppiste argument. That the European immigrants consisted mainly of the most ambitious.I think Paul Kennedy (unsurprisingly a white American) made the argument that Italy lost the most productive part of the nation.
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@Legion: I agree.
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That sad thing about that is that it wasn’t even built by whites.
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Buddhuu and Franklin
Spot on.
@buddhuu
“For this reason I believe that some agents of trouble are planted by law enforcement or government to justify strong response.”—This is precisely my line 9f thinking. I am beginning to feel like many of the “looters” are plants to cause a disturbance.
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“them riotin’ blakz r burnin down their own homez”
– – –
Now the above is 100 percent unadulterated *stoopidity*.
Who in his right mind burns down his own home?! And, exactly where is it that the typical person might lay his head in comfort and safety after he has set fire to his home and community? Logically, no one … that is, of course, unless he is looking to cash in on a homeowner’s fire insurance policy or if he is attempting to cover up a murder through arson.
Perhaps, though, the assumption here is that we Blacks, en masse, simply are NOT in our right minds. Otherwise than that, this sort of unthinking, zombie-like ‘reasoning’ makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.
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@ Gen @ Kiwi
That sad thing about that is that it wasn’t even built by whites.
It’s fashionable for people of colour to say this sort of thing. It’s true and it’s false; point of view can go round and round on that one. Look, if you control something and you put others to work and you’re the one with the vision and control and the administration of things then you can claim to have “built” in you’re own way, even if your means were violent and inhuman. I know we hate the history for a multitude of reasons, the bloodshed being top spot or close to top spot but it always strikes me as problematic to relate the “they didn’t even build it” narrative. They (founding fathers, et. al. founded a new country, of course they built a large part of it (new society), they built plenty of the defining institutions of America. I personally don’t take any noble pride in black ancestors having “built” things while captive. Did Jews in the concentration camps “build”? When you’re captive and have no choice, you do what you have to, to survive. Did the feudal serfs “build” Europe or did the Lords and Kings and merchants build Europe. Did the Pharaohs and the priest class build Egypt or did their slaves. At the very least, I think this whole “they didn’t build this and that” at least comes down to a false dichotomy, wouldn’t you say? Then again, perhaps the “build” narrative is inherently vague because the definition of “build” (as it’s used in the narrative) is assumed to be known and agreed upon by all (people of colour especially) in a “common sense” sort of way, but it isn’t necessarily clear …
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Sharina , there is no way that 156 arrested are police plants as Buddhuu implies…..Buddhuu is a long ways away , and is saying these things from his arm chair, the same way the self identified anarchists and commies, the real commies, self identified, which I note Buddhuu seperates himself from, in Brazil , tried to spin it …as a matter of fact, when a reporter got killed from a protesters exolosive meant for police, they screamed it was police, until a million cameras proved without a doubt it was them
That is a cheap shot to try to push 156 arrested off as police plants
And , after two years of watching , and being caught up in several , of maybe hundreds of protests in Brazil , that turned violent , its easy to see very similar patterns emerging in these Ferguson protests, where people come from outside and imposed violence over peaceful protests
Buddhuu also said he was against violence , but , implied, in spite of that , he “feared” there was no other way for the system to be torn down…and implied if he was in a protest and the police did what they did, he would riot….yet , we really hear the people of Ferguson, as well as Michael Brown’s parents , say these outside influences hinder the investigation…and the people of Ferguson, most of them , dont want outsiders messing up their city…I dont get the people of Ferguson want their city torn apart , or the system torn down , they want racism to be torn down , and the racist police mentality exposed, and for justice to be done, and inspite of outside influences coming in and sabotoging their efforts, their plight is getting national attention with the attorny general coming there to investigate civil rights abuses by police
People like Buddhuu ought to do more in depth research about how the people of Ferguson really feel rather than spout off theories of police plants , when its impossíble for all those arrested to be police plants…and takes the attention off looking at the truth..he is just super imposing his personal agendised opinion of what is going on against the actual truth,based on his philisohical choices
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@Kartoffel
Of course you heard the “opposite argument.” But any suggestion that US got Italy’s finest is a myth. Most were in fact were the poorest from the poor southern regions of Italy, who came to the US to make money with intentions of returning. Some Italian criminals were sent, especially after 1880, which fueled organised crime in many cities and which was largely overlooked by police.
So, it’s really not arguable that US received the “best of Europe,” obviously with many exceptions. By and large the inscription on the Statue of Liberty about the “tired…poor…wretched refuse” is accurate, only the large criminal element is white washed from history.
And these people were gradually accepted into society and many of them treated blacks even worse than WASPs. This is ongoing til this day, and helps explain why so many white Americans of all European backgrounds are supporting the murder of an unarmed boy.
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http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/08/22/ferguson-s-shameful-legal-shakedown-three-warrants-a-year-per-household.html?utm_medium=email&utm_source=newsletter&utm_campaign=cheatsheet_afternoon&cid=newsletter%3Bemail%3Bcheatsheet_afternoon&utm_term=Cheat%20Sheet
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@ Kiwi
I don’t believe ssimilated Europeans “introduced” criminal elements into the American police system.
Law and order and systemic illegal activities for the accretion of money and power are not “separate” entities. They are actually complementary. Collaborators, oftentimes. They always did so in Europe, long before the creation of the US.
The powerful and respectable of ancient Sicily were at the centre of “civlization'” and modern development.
And the Irish (the Irish Mob are the oldest of their kind in the US, from what the Irish say in Ireland) have very old crime tentacles — usually they present themselves in government, business and the legal profession.
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If we look at the history of organised crime in USA, from the late 1700’s, it has always been an alliance between the gangs, politicians and the police. In every single case in every single city where there has been a serious criminal organisation/ syndicate, the patter has been the same.
I have no idea what the situation is in Ferguson or there abouts, but it is interesting to know that the man they blamed killin MLK had connections to the criminal network which had connections to the crime group was run and lead by Carlos Marcello in New Orleans.
When talking about US prganised crime one is better to forget the ethnic lines. They are handy and give the impression that there is a italian mafia, chinese triads or colombian cartels or what ever behind it, but the truth is that the home grown organised crime in US has always been mirror of the country.
You have irish, italians, jewish, black gangsters, all of them forming networks and connections al over the place. Among the real criminals and gangsters, and I am not talking about some gangbangers on the street corners acting tough but real organised criminals, there is only one color: green. That is all.
They have their gangs, cliks, groups, but the co-operation between these is ongoing, has always been and will be so. Everybody knew in 1950’s that the Lucchese mafia familys Pleasant avenue crew brought the heroin in Harlem and sold it to guys like Nicky Barnes and others, who then moved the product forward. Nothing strange, just business.
The Myth of the ethnicity of organised crime prevents people from seeing how it actually works. But just like every where: follow the money. Perhaps even in Ferguson.
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Let us say you are a black gangster in city X. There are street gangs who sell dope on the streets and get it from where ever. Now you need to get the source in order to sell to those gangs in whole sale and corner the local markets. Well, you have to make contact abroad. Lets say to the Mexican drug cartels.
So you need to make an contact to someone who knows them, simply beause you can not just drive into Juarez and start ask questions. So you find a mexican who has those connections, and you meet the cartel guys and they are ready to deliver you the dope for certain amount. Fine.
But you know that if you start putting the stuff out, it won’t be long before the cops show up. And they love to show up on black dealers door step with tv cameras. What to do? You know that in the city there is a group of white “business men”. You make a contact with them and they will, for a price, contact their guys among the local politicians, who have the contacts among the local cops.
Now these white guys ask a lot of money so you cut them in and they are happy to take their share. In return, just to keep the monely flowing, they try to control the cops, among whom there are few who are on the take. Politicians are happy to take the money, everybody is happy to take their cut. Also, this way you get to know white lawyers, bankers, consultants, who can launder your money via some banks in Caribbean or in Andorra.
Now you have clean money to be invested in what ever legal enterprise you wish, from malls to dance halls, restaurants and buildings. Now you are part of the real organised crime which controls the politics, cops, businesses etc. in the city X. And it all works nicely as long as everybody keeps the deals and promises and their place. And all involved make enough money and multiply their capital via the legal businesses. It is a net work of crime, money and business, big business and politics.
This is roughly the pattern, from time and time again, all over the US. The skin colors may change, but this is the System. This is what it has been since the days of Plug Uglies, Five Pointers and Tammany Hall in the 1800’s.
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Many of the protesters who were arrested were peaceful protesters. As was reported on CNN, many were arrested because they wouldn’t move when ordered to, as police have been trying to get protesters to go home. Not all the arrests have been due to violent protesters.
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@ebony
Thank you for clearing up that false Information about the arrested protesters being violent. Nice to read your Comments again.
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No problem, good to see you here too @Sharina
(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C1e4vNfLa0E)
@Abagond
Do you watch the young turks on y0ut()be? You might like em.
(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t-7JQ4HUano)
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Six journalists arrested?? Remember what kind of noise the media kept when one russian journalist was arrested in Russia. Now american cops are arresting american journalists and nobody says a thing??
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” Now american cops are arresting american journalists and nobody says a thing??”
FEAR is the current norm of the day.
Welcome to life in the New American Police State where freedom of the press ONCE existed. Next to go will be alternative news sites and informative blogs like this one. Or better yet why not shut down all the independent sections of the internet?
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@Just Me
SOPA was dangerously close to chilling the internet even though it was ostensibly about anti-piracy. The powers granted under the law would have made it a lot easier to shut down websites.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stop_Online_Piracy_Act
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@ Ebonymonroe
I subscribe to Young Turks. I also like Democracy Now and the Real News. All three take race head on and discuss it intelligently.
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http://madamenoire.com/462995/black-on-black-crime/
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Vox reports:
More:
http://www.vox.com/xpress/2014/8/27/6075001/police-in-ferguson-trampled-on-a-memorial-for-michael-brown-set-up-by
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I clicked on the link you provided from vox.com about Michael Brown’s mother setting up a make shift memorial for him and saw where they (Ferguson) police officers ran over it and allowed the dogs to urinate on it, that is so shameful and hateful, these people will get their just due because karma will get them. There is sowing and reaping, what goes around comes around.
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It pains me to say it but B.R. makes an observation worthy of a response. I did indeed say that I would have rioted had I been in Ferguson. For the record I’d like to say that I agree that agitators from outside going in and stirring up trouble in order to advance their own agendas does no good at all, and just causes more difficulty to Mike Brown’s family. My rhetoric was intended to imply what I would do were I a member of that community. My comment was made to express my understanding and sympathy for those Ferguson residents who took to the streets in anger.
As for B.R.’s wider comments, specifically those regarding Communism and Anarchism, they are so utterly devoid of knowledge and understanding regarding the breadth, variety and nature of those political movements that I no longer waste my time on him.
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@ Abagond and Mary
Part of the reason they do it is to get a rise out of them. They want to start fights with the citizens to say “see how they are.”
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Just read this from the washington post a few days ago:
the imbalance in Jennings was even higher than in Ferguson & look what happened there.
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abagond
@ Ebonymonroe
I subscribe to Young Turks. I also like Democracy Now and the Real News. All three take race head on and discuss it intelligently.
………………………………………………
I agree
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http://www.democracynow.org/2014/8/20/stop_the_violence_from_ferguson_to
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(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KUdHIatS36A)
(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RqTED8UjKr8)
(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YlsS8J4HH78)
(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ktv6IcDaozk)
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@Ebonymonroe: I was watching HBO two weeks ago and saw John Oliver commentary on the Ferguson crisis. I was so surprised that he was so spot on and was totally got what was going on in Ferguson. I never watch this guy’s show but i was very impressed that he showed empathy. I did see that show. I have to say that was great.
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@Ebonymonroe: John Stewart and Jon Oliver do get how apathetic many white Americans are about the Ferguson crisis and how many are apathy of many whites Americans. How blinded they are by their white privilege.
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I agree @Mary B. I was also very surprised at how they nailed every dimension! I’m completely impressed.
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@Ebonymonroe: I was dozing and ready to turn the television off and when i heard John Oliver just killing it in his opening monologue i had to sit up and listen and i was just kind of shocked because i was not expecting that i have to stay up on Sunday night, he comes on so late. But i have respect for the two Johns.
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An excellent and extensive article:
http://www.salon.com/2014/09/14/fergusons_massive_cover_up_how_police_departments_are_protecting_michael_browns_killer/?utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=socialflow
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Two White construction workers come forward and corroborate the narrative that Michael Brown was shot to death surrendering with his hands in the air.
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2wYLHfcmK1Q)
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I just signed this petition about a similar incident that’s been ignored. This young man was apparently buying a toy rifle for his child and was shot to death by police, without a word spoken, while walking down the aisle at Wal-Mart.
http://www.change.org/p/ohio-attorney-general-mike-dewine-open-a-federal-investigation-into-the-fatal-police-shooting-of-john-crawford-iii-release-video-of-shooting?utm_campaign=new_signature&utm_medium=email&utm_source=signature_receipt#share
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Eric Holder to resign:
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@Linda
Thanks for the link. I had glanced at the story but not taken the time to fully read it.
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http://deadspin.com/cardinals-fans-get-ugly-in-clash-with-ferguson-proteste-1643282285?rev=1412690931716&utm_campaign=socialflow_deadspin_facebook&utm_source=deadspin_facebook&utm_medium=socialflow
“Cardinals Fans Get Ugly In Clash With Ferguson Protesters”
so embarrassing!!!
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Another kid shot dead by police in St Louis. 😦
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/oct/09/st-louis-police-shoot-18-year-old-reviving-tensions-over-ferguson
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http://twitchy.com/2014/10/13/moral-mobday-ferguson-area-walmarts-targeted-for-protests-store-evacuated-vine/
go go mobile social media!!!!
“‘Moral Mobday’: Ferguson area Walmarts targeted for protests; Store evacuated [Vine]”
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@abagond i meant the busted link on fb i wanted the reference in there of the article
http://goblackcentral.com/2014/10/3-walmarts-shut-down-so-much-power-in-ferguson-that-mainstream-media-wont-cover-it/
“THREE WALMARTS SHUT DOWN! SO MUCH POWER IN FERGUSON THAT MAINSTREAM MEDIA WON’T COVER IT!”
this is corroboration, know what i mean?
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The purpose of media was more to show blacks as out of Control. The protests are very civil. They can’t have that. I even saw a protest at an Opera house. They inteerupted themail orchestra to sing justice for Mike brown.
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http://www.westernjournalism.com/federal-investigators-just-revealed-ferguson-mean-st-louis-going-burn/
“Malik Zulu Shabazz, former head of the New Black Panther Party, is demanding a rebellion against the government if Police Officer Darren Wilson is not indicted by a grand jury for allegedly murdering Michael Brown in Ferguson, MO.”
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https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=10204888457799780&id=1489932727&refid=17&ref=bookmark&_ft_
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Mainstream media in the UK all but ignoring Ferguson as far as I can see now.
I follow the ‘Justice for Mike Brown’ page on FB and watch some of the streams. Still plenty going on but, like most popular protest, our media don’t want to report it.
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I suggest black people march on a school and force changes in the curriculum; particularly more “white studies” departments.
No black person can get past 7th grade without knowing EXACTLY how many Jews died in the hollowcost;
how does that happen?
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@ Budhuu
“Mainstream media in the UK all but ignoring Ferguson as far as I can see now.”
Could you elaborate? In Germany it was a major headline and I imagined in the UK it would be even more covered.
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George Ryder
who determines the history they teach in schools anyways?
——————————————————————————————-
Probably the same ones who make sure the only Native America women you study are the ones who helped White men; Pocohantas, Sacjaweeya…
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Posts on US high school history curriculum and how it is determined:
General:
Examples:
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@ buddhuu
Mainstream media in the UK all but ignoring Ferguson as far as I can see now.
I follow the ‘Justice for Mike Brown’ page on FB and watch some of the streams. Still plenty going on but, like most popular protest, our media don’t want to report it.
Yeah, I hear you. I followed the Financial Times’ coverage when Ferguson first broke out. There coverage was basically poor quality and sometimes had a grudging tone.
The FT and The Economist generally insist that America be paid attention to. Apparently the FT saw no inconsistency in telling Europeans not to pay attention to Ferguson because it was not a European matter. They covered it at first because Ferguson was hard to ignore (that damn internet and that damn social media) but like I say they did it grudgingly and wrote with a subtext of “reasonable FT readers shouldn’t care very much about this Ferguson thing.”
Another editorial on Ferguson that I read in the FT took the predictable, “Oh dear, how can this be happening when a black person is President. I guess we have more to work out than “we” realized.” <——Uh, right. Thank you for the deep and sincere insight. 🙂
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*Their coverage…..
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I found a youtube video of the scuffle between police, anti-occupy agitators and protestors in Mongkok last week, which I put here.
(https://abagond.wordpress.com/2014/10/07/occupy-central-%e4%bd%94%e4%b8%ad/#comment-261140)
You can clearly see the anti-occupy groups being given open access by the police to attack and beat non-violent protestors. To me it hearkens to the time when the police let segregationalists attack and beat the Freedom Riders in Anniston.
Does anyone have any of this kind of footage of what went on in Ferguson? What is the situation there now? Are there still thousands of protestors? What happened?
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jefe, I understand we are not exactly on speaking terms, but there is a reason why this blog has been quiet about Ferguson recently. I thought you would know…
From PuffingtonHost a couple days back:
“Over a half-dozen black witnesses who have testified before a grand jury deciding whether to indict the police officer who killed Michael Brown have provided testimony that “largely supports” Ferguson Police Officer Darren Wilson’s account of events, The Washington Post reported on Wednesday.
Sources told The Washington Post that seven or eight black witnesses gave testimony before the grand jury that was “consistent” with Wilson’s account, but that none have spoken out publicly about what they witnessed because they fear for their safety.”
“The New York Times reported that forensic evidence showed that Brown’s blood was on the gun and that other evidence was consistent with Wilson’s account of the shooting, and The St. Louis Post-Dispatch obtained an autopsy of Brown that also indicates he may have struggled with the officer for control of his weapon while the officer was still in the vehicle. ”
Nothing to see here folks. Move along to the next gentle giant martyr.
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biff
“there is a reason why this blog has been quiet about Ferguson recently.”–Perhaps it would sever you better to assume less about why the silence and actually ask people. Most of us have this thing called a life and a job. So in the fashion of speaking for myself this is news to me.
Now that I see this information this is my take. There have been news releases of Mike browns criminal record from an Washington post source that turned out to be false. There has been reports from other sources that Mike brown had a facebook page of him with a gun that turned out to not even be him. There have been news sources that he stole the cigars and guess what other video of him at the counter seemingly paying for them. So I think smart people have stopped listening to news sources.
As to browns blood being on the gun, people with common sense can attest that blood on the gun is an indication that Mike was shot. A shot person can and will fight for a gun to get it away from the person to avoid a fatal shot. Sorry but even the best liars know that telling a little truth goes a long way.
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jefe
I can’t tell you much as I have not been following it. Though I have been following the protests across the country. Many so far are peaceful and are large demonstrations. I saw one demonstration in an Opera house and recently someone posted a demonstration cutting off traffic.
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On the subject, does it not seem strange that all these accounts are of second hand sources and not from the horses mouth? Medical examiners reports are from a source who was told by the medical examiner and not the actual medical examiner? Those who testified are from a source who claim that is what they said and not from the actual jurors?
Not to mention people trying to put focus on what might have happened in the car vs what happened outside of the car?
Something to think about.
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sharinalr
There have been news sources that he stole the cigars and guess what other video of him at the counter seemingly paying for them.
————————————————————————————————-
The DA should subpoena the little Asian man/owner in the store video, bring him before a grand jury, and force him to answer the questions you raise under threat of imprisonment until he does.
I understand the man is afraid Michael Browns thug friends will assault him, his family, and burn down his store it took his life savings to make if he does; but the confusion over his silence in the matter has already cost far more.
SOMETHING went on in that store that may have led to Michael Browns death. That little Asian man needs to reveal it.
Or be held in jail until he does.
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thwack
I don’t think that is at all necessary as the issue at the store is not so much am issue as a distraction. White people are putting hardcore focus on it and the guy at the store said clearly he never filed a report to begin with. I am cool if he had, but all that is besides the point. The point is there is so many much he said she said going on that it is an orgy of lies. One so ingrained that the truth will likely never come out.
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sharinalr
thwack
the guy at the store said clearly he never filed a report to begin with.
————————————————————————————————–
1. Did he SAY that?
or
2. Did the police say that?
3. IF he said it, WHY did he say it?
4. If he didn’t say it, why are YOU saying he said it?
5. Did someone call law enforcement on Michael Brown?
6. If so, what is that persons name and WHY did they do it?
Due to law enforcement officials superior court/legal experience, they know how to reveal information about their actions in a manner that gives them the greatest amount of leeway in answering future questions that they know are coming.
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Thwack
Most of this information is common knowledge, so the real question is why are you asking me things you can find on your own?
Yet they are not really answering any questions that are popping up. They are more finding other things to put attention on.
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It seems like some commenters misunderstood my questions.
I know that some forensic evidence was uncovered last week that supported at least part of the Darren Wilson’s story. My questions were not specifically about the Michael Brown case per se.
But my questions were
– Is there similar video footage recounting the police brutality against the protestors? I wanted to gauge how the situation in Mongkok unfolded vs. the situation in Ferguson or other US cities.
– Are there still large scale demonstrations? Is there a long term theme to those protests?
– How is the progress about the ultimate objective of the protests and demonstrations (ie, against police brutality esp. murder or unnecessary assault of unarmed citizens, and against unarmed peaceful civil disobedience demonstrators)? Another objective might be the demilitarization of the police.
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http://www.dailykos.com/story/2014/10/23/1338661/-The-Official-Michael-Brown-Autopsy-Report-Doesn-t-Say-What-the-St-Louis-Post-Dispatch-Says-It-Does?detail=email
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http://talkrealsolutions.com/marchers-protesting-michael-brown-shooting-block-atlanta-highway/
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http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-29958252
“Michael Brown shooting: Ferguson braces for grand jury decision”
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Was wondering what people might think of the following statements by a white woman married to a black man with an adopted black son.
It’s her Ferguson — and it’s not all black and white
(http://us.cnn.com/2014/11/17/us/ferguson-biracial-couple/index.html)
“She raised him in a biracial home and tried to make race a nonissue. She wanted Christopher to grow up colorblind”
“But after Brown’s death, she couldn’t shield him from race or anger anymore.”
“She wishes more black families would get involved in the community by volunteering or simply turning out to vote.”
“She blames poor civic engagement by African-Americans for the gulf between the races. ”
“As a freshman, she became the first white girl in her school to date a black guy. ”
“Her circles are diverse, but they also include people who are symbols of white authority. Like the mayor, James Knowles.”
“They, like many other Ferguson residents, purchased a gun. They’d never had a firearm in their house before, but they no longer felt safe. ”
My take – NO comment about the real problems in Ferguson, ie, a white police force, police brutality, what to do about racial profiling. My feeling is that she is NOT helping her son.
If she blames lack of civic engagement by blacks, then she should focus her volunteer efforts to increase their civic engagement.
But it sounds like typical white liberal rhetoric. They should now interview her husband. But it sounds like the story only has credibility if coming from a white person, one that is MARRIED to a black person.
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@jefe
I think it greatly goes back to what many have said about marrying non-white does not equal not racist.
I have to agree greatly with you that she is not helping her son by blaming the current racism in the offices on blacks not voting. Voting to me does not guarantee that the person going into office will be for your best interest and voting sure won’t protect her son from racist.
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jefe
Was wondering what people might think of the following statements by a white woman married to a black man with an adopted black son.
“She raised him in a biracial home and tried to make race a nonissue. She wanted Christopher to grow up colorblind”
———————————————————————————————-
Base on my own investigation, white parents of nonwhite children do NOT provide them with ANY “secret”, “inside” and/or unknown information regarding HOW white people PRACTICE racism.
They could but they don’t.
Matter of fact, they often do the exact opposite (which is what this white lady did)
This article she wrote is the evidence.
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http://www.cnn.com/2014/11/17/us/ferguson-state-of-emergency/index.html?hpt=hp_t1
“Missouri governor declares state of emergency in Ferguson”
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Yep, the governor has declared a state of emergency meaning Darren Wilson is going to walk free. I hope this doesn’t get ugly. Because the media is just itching to show the worst.
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Yep, sounds like he will walk free.
Michael Brown is not the poster boy, obviously.
Maybe only if Obama had an unarmed son who was shot by the police would the administration take any action.
Anyway to prevent violence from occurring? If they are sending in the National Guard, sounds like they are expecting the worst.
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@jefe: “Maybe only if Obama had an unarmed son who was shot by the police would the administration take any action” I wonder why he never tried to get involved. I felt this crisis was a state of emergency and he didn’t seem to be concerned. I guess the crisis in Palestine with the Israelis and the Isis crisis is more important.
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Yes, he really dropped the ball many times. But maybe he was worried about the November elections.
And he sent Eric Holder who resigned. Talk about leadership at the Federal level.
Now that he is lame duck, he should now do the things that he wanted to do, or which he felt should be done without the need to pander to politics. He should do it before he leaves the post.
I wonder post presidency, if he would become more like Jimmy Carter or Bush. Jimmy Carter did more of his work AFTER his presidency. Actually, Clinton has been very active post-presidency. The Bushes have been, well, off the radar.
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It’s a scary day. Twitter is full of reactionary stupidity over the situation.
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IMO, Obama’s failure to get get significantly personally involved is deliberate distance.
With the obstacles being put in the way of Black voters and low voter turnout he feels that other sections of the electorate are more important to keep on his side.
I know a lot of people still see Obama through the hopeful glow we all felt when he first got elected, but he is a massive fail. A sell-out who is much the same as the old boss.
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buddhuu
IMO, Obama’s failure to get get significantly personally involved is deliberate distance.
——————————————————————————————–
Duh?
Distancing himself from black people is how/why he was elected.
I even suspect the Jesse Jackson comment about “cutting his b*lls off” was was planned to help Obama look aloof from “real” black people.
* If Jesse Jackson hates him, he must be alright.*
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This waiting is just keeping everyone in suspense. Folks are just sitting on pins and needles. But i think we all know what the outcome will be. I just hope there will not be acts of violence and destruction. And that the folks in Ferguson will harness that energy into something positive. I see Mike Brown’s father pleading for folks to act in a peaceful manner.He is passing out turkeys to the folks in Ferguson, he is taking his sadness and pain and doing something positive. Bless him. It is scary waiting for this verdict.
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Wondering if many people in the US are concerned or interested in how the US is viewed overseas in light of the recent police brutality events headlining the news lately.
They are headlining the news overseas too.
Found one article in the Washington Post that addressed this.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2014/12/05/how-eric-garner-and-ferguson-have-struck-a-blow-to-americas-image/
How the Eric Garner and Ferguson protests have ‘struck a blow to America’s image’
Here is an editorial stance on the issue:
Leaders in Glass Countries Shouldn’t Throw Stones
Ferguson, Eric Garner, and why the United States isn’t fit to be the world’s moral authority.
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“Wondering if many people in the US are concerned or interested in how the US is viewed overseas in light of the recent police brutality events headlining the news lately.”
……
“United States isn’t fit to be the world’s moral authority.”
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
So what…? That doesn’t mean diddly squat!
Why?
Because every non-African and non Black person globally knows that they can immigrate to America and receive a social status higher than any and every Black or African or African descended person living in Amerikkka.
So long as Blacks are deemed BENEATH them, everything is good – relatively speaking! Even the poorest Europeans from the lowliest of places can come here, get put in nicer neighborhoods, attend better schools, receive economic help, maintain their own culture and language AND STILL look down on Black people for all sorts of bogus and BS reasons.
The US was NEVER fit to be anyone’s moral authority, imo.
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Most of the people reading those headlines are not would-be immigrants.
The main effect is in its soft power & its authority on foreign policy.
Russia is even advocating that their government side with African-Americans.
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@ jefe
I did not know that the US had any moral authority left.
Some argue that the reason the US government pushed through civil rights reforms in the 1960s is because the protests were making it look bad on the world stage where it acted as if it were the champion of freedom and democracy.
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@abagond
It seems the US government thinks it does.
That is almost certainly the case behind the Immigration and Naturalization Act of 1965 – The US government saw it as an embarrassment. Where else but on the world stage?
It looks like real reform requires making the US look foolish or morally bankrupt on the world stage (as opposed to confirming the black thuggification movement which did gain some tenancy overseas. The current round of protests in the USA might be just enough to do that.
If it any consolation to Americans, China does not take action based on moral grounds. It does not make any pretension of doing any international or domestic action for the sake of morals.
@Kiwi,
I think we should be seeing more of these things popping up after the current round of US protests, especially from Russia, and maybe from the middle East. From China, we will just see confirmation what they believe all along – the USA, along with the rest of the world, is just as morally bankrupt. Moral arguments have no solid ground to them. .
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@ Kiwi
Wow. The Freedom of Gatherings picture looks like Ferguson. The Freedom of Press does not need to be updated either. The Klan, though, needs to be replaced by the police.
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Two police officers were shot last night in Ferguson, the first to be shot despite all the unrest over the past months.
One was shot in the face, the other through the shoulder. Both are in the hospital and are expected to live. Police say the shots came from protesters. A protester said it came from a hill.
This came the same day that the Ferguson police chief resigned, something protesters were demanding back in August.
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@Abagond
Is there also not a series of firing going on as a result of racist findings in Ferguson?
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Somehow I feel a lot of things might erupt this summer – harking back to 1967.
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The Department of Justice uncovered just how racist the Ferguson Police Department really is. Maybe the DOJ discovered something people in Ferguson already knew. Then there is the matter of the racist emails by high ranking officials. This municipality is just such hive of disgusting racist degenerates. The whole system need to be swept out and torn down and put people of integrity in those positions to govern the city properly. I was watching a segment of MSNBC with Alex Witt and there was things that made me go, Hmmmm…….. The white citizens being interviewed said they had no idea that there was racial tension in the city. Really, that just blew my mind. They were in the age range from late 50’s to 70’s so maybe that made sense why they responded in that manner. They were just surprised that the black people were so unhappy in that town and didn’t know things were that bad. Damn, that’s crazy to me. That in itself says alot about how the white’s in that town pay attention to black people. They live in their own little world and don’t care about what happens to people with melanated skin. That was insightful for me to learn about this town. I was just shaking my head and i not to mention a state of disbelief.
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@ Sharina
The city manager and police chief in Ferguson resigned. Protesters want the mayor to resign as well.
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There’s a petition for Tamir Rice on change.org
https://www.change.org/p/cuyahoga-county-prosecutor-timothy-j-mcginty-file-charges-against-officers-timothy-loehmann-and-officer-frank-gramback?utm_source=action_alert&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=270546&alert_id=TgzNaNfwoW_ogQ4Z4O4v6nBOackQ%2FIUlIh88bxpmHYmOJqnoYXXbJ0dmR5s%2BNhdj9lsnQbR6jRv
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[…] it. By Wednesday, increased media coverage revealed what the residents of Ferguson had been dealing with all along (another important video here). Even then, the media has been actively prevented from covering the […]
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I believe that every rational-minded person knows that riots have their own chapter in American history, unfortunately. I live in Los Angeles, and, yes, L.A. has had its infamous riots like the 1965 Watts Riot (a riot that occurred a year after my 20-year-old dad left Jim Crow Mississippi) and 1992 L.A. Riots (my 20 years on this planet). However, L.A. is NOT the only city in the Golden State (California) that’s known for its riots. Lily-white Huntington Beach is infamously known for its riots too. Three years ago, the city of Huntington Beach was victimized by young White rioters. Thirty years ago on August 31, beach rioters brought Huntington Beach to its knees…the city was up in smoke, literally.
http://historythings.com/30-years-ago-beach-riots-brought-huntington-beach-knees/
The difference between the Watts/L.A. riots and the Huntington Beach riots was that the Watts/L.A. riots were the result of police brutality (which still exists) and injustice from the law (which still exists), whereas the Huntington Beach riots were the result of uncivil behavior on the last day of a 7-day surf tournament. It’s easily to note that Blacks riot ONLY for racial justice and Whites riot for defeat or victory in sports like pro hockey, pro baseball, pro soccer, college football, etc. I’m keeping it as REAL as it can get.
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[…] Ferguson […]
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