Donald Sterling (1934- ), an American billionaire, is best known as the owner of the Los Angeles Clippers, a basketball team. It accounts for a third of his wealth. On April 25th 2014, a recording of what seems to be him talking to his girlfriend, Vanessa Stiviano, was made public on the Internet. In it he tells her not to be seen in public with Black people.
We do not know where the recording came from, when it was made or whether it has been edited. But it is probably all too true: In 2009, for example, Sterling was made to pay $2.725 million for discriminating against Blacks and Latinos at his apartment buildings in metropolitan Los Angeles. It is a matter of public record that he has said stuff like this:
Is she one of those black people that stink? […] Just evict the bitch.
Sterling apparently had Stiviano remove these pictures from her Instagram account on the Internet:
The pictures bothered Sterling:
Sterling: Yeah, it bothers me a lot that you want to promo- broadcast that you’re associating with black people. Do you have to?
Stiviano: You associate with black people.
Sterling: I’m not you, and you’re not me. You’re supposed to be a delicate white or a delicate Latina girl.
Stiviano: I’m a mixed girl. And you’re in love with me. And I’m black and Mexican. Whether you like it or not.
She points out that his whole basketball team is Black:
Stiviano: Do you know that you have a whole team that’s black, that plays for you?
Sterling: You just, do I know? I support them and given them food, and clothes, and cars, and houses. Who gives it to them? Does someone else give it to them? Do I know that I have – Who makes the game? Do I make the game, or do they make the game? Is there 30 owners, that created the league?
When he asks her not to come to his games with Black people:
Stiviano: Isn’t it wrong? Wasn’t it wrong then? With the Holocaust? And you’re Jewish, you understand discrimination.
Sterling: You’re a mental case, you’re really a mental case. The Holocaust, we’re comparing with –
Stiviano: Racism! Discrimination.
Sterling: There’s no racism here. If you don’t want to be… walking… into a basketball game with a certain… person, is that racism?
On racism:
Sterling: It’s the world! You go to Israel, the blacks are just treated like dogs.
Stiviano: So do you have to treat them like that too?
Sterling: The white Jews, there’s white Jews and black Jews, do you understand?
Stiviano: And are the black Jews less than the white Jews?
Sterling: A 100%, 50, a 100%.
Stiviano: And is that right?
Sterling: It isn’t a question – we don’t evaluate what’s right and wrong, we live in a society. We live in a culture. We have to live within that culture.
The league commissioner is looking into the matter. The coming days and weeks will tell us how well Sterling understands the culture.
See also:
Here is another, “teachable moment” that will come and go like it always do, being white people will refuse to talk about race.
The only talk about race a white person wants to have is to accuse, black people of being the racist ones for bringing up race in the 1st place. lol
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I was waiting for you to start writing about this. I’m thinking it’s the white man thing, the jealousy thing, seeing ‘his’ woman too close to black men. They get very primitive behind that, really lose control. Totally unexpurgated what they will say and do. You could know somebody for years and never hear a racist peep, but let that get under his skin and it all comes out, and if you’re the woman in question, what happens may well change your life.
She chose exposing him over holding onto a billion dollar sugar daddy. I think she may be my hero. Or perhaps she’s just finding a way to promote herself. I’m curious to see what she does with this. There are certainly plenty of well-heeled gentlemen surrounding her who will think very highly of her. She’ll be all right. Hopefully, she’ll find someone who won’t expect her to pretend she’s white, like Sterling is, expecting her to pretend, the way he is. He’s pretending to be an Ubermenstch, trying to pass for white. They’re always the worst. Hitler, also, was a Jew.
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I am not finished with this NBW, she’s a disgrace to black and Mexican women.
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Isn’t ironic how the most bigoted people are usually the ones with the most friends of color and a woman/man of color in their bed? Willingly?
And he’s right about the Jews. Look how Israel treats the African Jews. You would think that a group of people who have been discriminated against for centuries upon centuries would not have the collective energy to treat anyone, especially the darker versions of themselves, like total sh*t but since when am I right?
Sssh listen, you hear that? It’s my faith in humanity dying a slow death.
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P.S AND HE EVEN ADMITTED THERE IS A RACIST CULTURE!!!
You don’t question it, you don’t let something as stupid and infantile as “morals” get in the way. You just do as you are silently told.
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Kiwi, I think a better example would be a white bf requiring that his hapa gf not associate or be seen with any Asian men.
I agree that Ms. Stiviano did stand up to Sterling. Many POC women would not do that around their white bf or husbands.
Have no idea what to do about Sterling. Did he break any laws? What can actually be done about what transpired.
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If you have already said these things, you are probably a White racist.
1) I would never support what Donald Sterling said BUT he is entitled to be a racist if he chooses to be?
2) I would never support what Donald Sterling said BUT it’s a free country and he has “freedom of speech.”
3) I would never support what Donald Sterling said BUT Why was he being recorded in the first place, isn’t that illegal?
4) If a Black person said the same thing it would not be treated as a big deal
5) He was just reacting because he was embarrassed and jealous, it was a private conversation
6) It sounds to me like he was probably set up.
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Kiwi:
“To be fair to Vanessa Stiviano, she stood up to Donal Sterling’s racism, and I feel she deserves some credit for that. It’s better than what I’ve seen with women of my race when their white husbands/boyfriends put down Asians. Sometimes the women just smile or laugh along and even join in on the bashing of the men of their own race. Stiviano wanted to be associated with black men (look at the 3 photos!) and was upset when Sterling told her not to identify as black. Some Asian women I’ve met don’t have the dignity to do even that and contemptuously choose not to associate with other Asians, hanging around only white people. Stiviano didn’t do that.”
1st off, i don’t give credit for something she is expected to do as a woman of color, which is to stand up for yourself and you’re ethnic background, whatever it may be.
So she was standing up for her actions of taking photos with black/mixed celebrities, should we give her a cookie? that’s what she’s suppose to do!
2nd, she was not, “associating with black men” by her own admission, more than just associating with, “celebrities” The fact that they happen to be black is and was besides the point, even by her own statements.
Look, she knew good and well he was a racist and yet, still choose to ignore that, just to be in company of a rich tycoon, that lavishes her with riches and hob nobs and rubs elbows with the upper crust of society.
She sold herself and far as i am concerned, is nothing more than a gold digging, high priced, tycoon groupie ho.
She is by all accounts, a sell out to her black and Mexican background. To be in a relationship with a racist, that openly says these racist things to her face, is the lowest a person can go, without having any sort of common decency and dignity. She spend a good amount of the tape, “apologizing” to him by saying, “I’m sorry honey, i am so sorry for making you angry” WTF?
if anyone should be angry it should be her! She knew who she was screwing, didn’t care just for a taste of the good life with a old racist wind bag with a ton of money to throw at her.
I wouldn’t be surprised one bit if he called her the N word in bed and she didn’t even blink an eye!
She gets no pass for me, maybe you and some others will cradle her but not i….
I respect your opinion but gracefully and respectfully disagree with you, kiwi.
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Fascinating when you look at the photos above.
Does she look White to anyone? …I mean anyone??? It’s amazing how people will rationalize and then impose an identity on people to fit their own comfort level. Because he despises Blacks, she can not, must not be Black. She is instead White, even though she’s a dark Latina mixd with Black.
This is a good one for the psychology books.
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King, i honestly think he’s is just senile and went on a rant that made no sense. He knew that she was half black and Mexican. he just wanted an n”exotic” looking female on his arm and to screw in bed.
I agree with you, its so ridiculous that he would even say that, being she looks nothing close to white. There is nobody that would think white, when looking at her. he’s fooling himself imposing a white identity on her.
Maybe he meant, that she should act, walk, talk like a white woman, including hanging with and only with white men and women.
So in other words, he meant that she was expected to be a sell out, which she was far as i am concerned, just because she took pictures with black and brown celebrities, doesn’t mean she isn’t a sell out.
Just like Sterling himself, hanging out with black people ( magic Johnson back in the 90’s ), taking pictures with them, doesn’t mean he isn’t a racist!
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Oh Lord, the Jews ought to know better than that after Hitler singled them out, heck in their whole history they have been singled out for discrimination and extermination. He must be just miserable, and look who he is dating and she’s dating him! lol, money talks nobody walks. I know his girlfriend is pointing out his undesirable behavior but he ain’t listening – he has a phobia about blacks. And he thinks he is supplying his team with luxurious goods for nothing. They are out there sweating their butts off keeping him rich. Go figure.
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Wait, so these are the objectionable black men she’s not supposed to associate with? I was sure she was hanging out with some over-the-top rapper or hot shot baller, but these guys? Really?
Sigh.
I have to admit, I find this whole debacle hilarious. This is 400 years of American history neatly rolled into a Twitter feed. What amuses me most is that people are shocked — SHOCKED — about it. What? You didn’t see this coming? Have you been paying attention?
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Oh, King you need to add, “oh, well she’s a gold digger” to your list. As if that excuses his actions. Even if she is a gold digger, so what! This isn’t about her, it’s about him. As the always funny and oh so truthful Marsha Warfield breaks it down as only she can:
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Haha! Aptly quoted, grin and bear it!
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Right on, Sondis!
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@ King
In the last photo with the politicians, I’d go with “delicate” 😀 South Pacific Islander or a dark Latina.
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This dude Sterling is out of his freakin’ tree. Is he serious. Stiviano totally has the cheek bone structure of new world Indians of the southern American region; can dip shit not see that? Look at her lips, look at the “moon” face.
——————————————
This guy is pretty off.
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Food for thought:
1. There are things people say in private that they would not like others to hear (in public).
2. Definitely this guy is racist, but…
3. …There is also an element of sexual insecurity in his behavior (maybe because of age difference to his partner).
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Marsha Warfield FTW, I’ve personally told her how much she rockS-and believe me, she still doeS!!! ;-D
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This is really disgusting , and , contains quite a few of the nasty stereotypes that have been mentioned about interracial relationships…and, there is more..aparently he also said , im paraphrasing , ” you can f them , but just dont bring them to the games..”
This world of the celebrity super rich sure is bizzaro…of course these attitudes are from real life , but they get played out in technicolor in the gossip mills, and , in the light if Mel Gibsons similar tirade with his ex, its clear some of these elite are warped individuals
It certainly has to shut down any white claims that this is a color blind siciety and racism doesnt exist
Down here, they did a report on the Danial Alves racist banana incident, and went into various racist incidents in various European countries soccar games, this kind of racism is cronic in Europe
Sterling is thouroghly disgusting..you made a good point, King, about he could have been set up…but, now the beans have been spilled, we can at least learn from it….it just shows how all the way around , things can get real sleazy in elite circles
For sure this is a poster couple for what the wrong reasons to be in an interracial relationship can be…if you are concerned about racism.
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Reading this article made my head spin. What a slimy, bizarre little man.
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Good for her standing up but what woman lays with such an ugly ass in the first place? Oh yes it’s the doe.the same that go with guys like Donald Tramp. I never knew people had this kind of thinking like Mr Tokowitz a.k.a Sterling.
Stiviano: And are the black Jews less than the white Jews?
Sterling: A 100%, 50, a 100%.
Stiviano: And is that right?
Sterling: It isn’t a question – we don’t evaluate what’s right and wrong, we live in a society. We live in a culture. We have to live within that culture.
Typical Zionist racist punk,.then you wonder why Palestinians make such “scandalous declaration”
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“I would never support what Donald Sterling said BUT Why was he being recorded in the first place, isn’t that illegal?”
_ _ _
And the answer to that question would be: “No, it probably isn’t.”
According to both federal law and the law in a majority of states, as well as in the District of Columbia, the recording of a conversation is considered lawful if one party to it has given consent.
In this case, the one consenting party is Ms Stiviano herself.
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@ Pay It Forward
She actually has over 100 hours of Sterling recorded, acting as his “archivist” so it’s quite probable that he also knew that he was being recorded at the time but simply forgot himself. Look at the things Richard Nixon said on tape KNOWING that he was recording it. People just get used to being recorded after a while and return to form.
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BTW Kiwi’s list up top is as excellent and accurate a “lessons learned” as I have seen on this subject.
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@ Legion and Sondis
We often talk about the malleability of “race” on this site—about the ever expanding definition of “Whiteness.” This seems to be a prime example of it. If you are attracted to someone, and they are young and somewhat racially ambiguous, then they can be see as White. Even when they are, in fact, half-Black and strongly Native American Indian. This is why “Whiteness” is not real, because it’s definition so often changes to suit. And a concept without definition, in the end, does not really exist.
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King
@ Legion and Sondis
We often talk about the malleability of “race” on this site—about the ever expanding definition of “Whiteness.” This seems to be a prime example of it. If you are attracted to someone, and they are young and somewhat racially ambiguous, then they can be see as White. Even when they are, in fact, half-Black and strongly Native American Indian. This is why “Whiteness” is not real, because it’s definition so often changes to suit. And a concept without definition, in the end, does not really exist.
King, i strongly and respectfully disagree with your statement.
Blacks and other minorities, have to fall in line with whiteness, otherwise they won’t fit the identity of whiteness.
White people only accept, certain and specific blacks, only on their terms and only when those blacks, meet certain criteria.
When fellow blacks in America, sell out and worships all things white and condemn all things black, they are falling in line with whiteness, then and only then, they can be seen as white. ( these are typically rich celebrities and other rich none famous blacks and minorities )
.
Asians being seen as , “Honorary whites” is a perfect example.
“This seems to be a prime example of it. If you are attracted to someone, and they are young and somewhat racially ambiguous, then they can be see as White.”
This is very subjective as this depends on the white person that is looking at the minority. some whites, think even rich and famous black celebrities, don’t fit or deserve the “whiteness stamp of approval”.
You see a perfect example of this in Sterling very words about Magic Johnson, whom is a fellow, BILLIONAIRE!
All this is in the white persons mind, looking at the minority. white people that think this way, doesn’t translate into whiteness, not being real.
Nobody on earth would mistake her for being white, just because a racist, wishes her to be white and imposes a white identity on her, doesn’t make it so.
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George Ryder:
“Is there some racist club of powerful people keeping this crap intact?”
Yes, its call white supremacy and the people that are benefiting from it, are white people.
So they are the racist club of powerful people, that are constantly trying to keep, Racism, white supremacy and white privilege it intact.
Every so often, a racial uproar happens in America that gets the whole country talking about race, aka Treyvon martin murder.
When this happens, white people HATE IT!
They are exposed and feel embarrassed by a fellow white person that is in the whiteness club, that are breaking one of the number one rules of the, “white code of conduct” which is that to never speak on your feelings of black people, where it can be exposed in the public domain.
That is rule #1.
Sterling broke that rule by slacking and not paying attention, so the white media has to condemn him, even though they are in cahoots with him, being they support white supremacy but to make it look good, they have to sacrifice one of their own.
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@Kiwi
I’m not sure I’ve learned any new lessons with this Sterling guy. Since the age of Political Correctness that grew up after Jim Crow ceased and the Civil Rights movement matured, much of white racism went backstage – meaning A LOT of racist thoughts and ideas were voiced privately and quietly usually in whites only enclaves – until the advent of “comment sections” on many Internet venues, ie; on-line news articles, STORMFRONT, Youtube, Huffington Post, Twitter, Facebook, blogs, etc… that permitted WHITES to state their true feelings anonymously, always behind a keyboard. And that’s only the Internet.
Then there’s Clive Bundy, the white rancher in Nevada who thinks that blacks were better off when we were picking cotton in slavery.
The fact is that these loons (like Paula Deen) can make their racism public, and still remain enabled by their less public, less vocal, anti-black (white) fans on the sidelines who harbor the same exact thoughts. Otherwise they would rather be dead than to say these things aloud. The WHITE anti-hate outcry would have overwhelmed them, it there was a WHITE anti-hate outcry. But as King already alluded, being disgusting in your beliefs isn’t illegal (yet), no matter how horribly disgusting one is. But disgust does come with a cost – sometimes.
Now we’ll see what it’ll cost Sterling.
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I was waiting for you to start writing about this. I’m thinking it’s the white man thing, the jealousy thing, seeing ‘his’ woman too close to black men. They get very primitive behind that, really lose control. Totally unexpurgated what they will say and do.
*Disclaimer* This is not in defense of white men–especially the racist ones…
However, i simply do not agree with your assessment. Most white (from what i have observed) don’t care if Black men sleep with “their” women–in fact, they rarely comment on it because there is no shortage of what many white men deem as “desirable” white females. Especially in the U.S. as white people are the majority, so there are way more white females for white men to choose from which eliminates the need to be fixated on the tiny minority of white females who date Black or other men of color.
Sterling’s remarks come from a place of internalizing the values that were instilled in him since childhood. Nothing more, nothing less.
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Also, this woman isn’t his wife–she’s his mistress.
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White men’s hatred of white women, dating, having sex with and marrying black men has nothing to do with availability or lack of white women for white men.
It has to do with white men, hating to see their women, which are held up as the standard of beauty in the whole world, with a race of men that are considered the lesser of all men in a white supremacist world.
Its just another missed opportunity in their eyes to maintain, white supremacy.
You can’t maintain white supremacy, when your fellow white people are breaking another rule of the, “white code of conduct” #2 never marry, have sex with or have children with black people.
And if you’re black or mixed with black or another minority group and have been granted, “honorary white status”, you too are bound by the rules of “white code of conduct”, which are to not mingle with, “those other blacks”.
This is the Rule, Vanessa Stiviano broke and Mr. sterling was letting her have it, because her lack of respect for that rule. I read loud and clear what he was really saying and its this very thing in which i am speaking of.
If you break these rules, your white club membership and privileges and Honorary white status will be revoked!
To summarize:
White men’s hatred of white women, dating, hanging around and being seen with black men, has to do with plain and simple, racism.
Abagond’s post is dead on….
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Actually, counter racists (The C.O.W.S., Dr. Welsing, etc.) would disagree with that.
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“Actually, counter racists (The C.O.W.S., Dr. Welsing, etc.) would disagree with that.”
Oh, is that right? well…maybe I’ll just shut my big fat mouth….. @ : o x ) >
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George Ryder:
You’re giving this 80 something year old racist man, way too much credit by looking too deep into his statements.
I actually don’t take anything he was saying to his girl friend/ mistress, seriously as he was just being argumentative for the sake of being so. He was not being objectionable or reasonable. He always insulted her, when he felt he was backed into a corner and couldn’t answer or respond to any of her questions.
His rant will filled with Ad Hominem and sexist attacks. How could anyone take what he was saying to her in any serious way?
Its obvious that he was willing to say anything to her to justify his racist logic, therefore his reasoning is null and void in my opinion.
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*Scratches head* uhm, i guess…
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*Scratches head* uhm, i guess…
@ : o O ) >
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“George Ryder
@sondis
it just sounded like he was following racist orders or something…..”
Nah, he was following his own racist ideas. To suggest he was following orders from another entity, assumes that he is not responsible for his own actions and words. @ : o l ) >
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You don’t think there’s some racist illuminati group running things from behind the scenes?
George, this is a stupid thing to say.
DO NOT ASK ME WHY?
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“You’re giving this 80 something year old racist man, way too much credit by looking too deep into his statements. ”
Well, consider how the deep rightwing has reacted to this. Checking out sites like FreeRepublic, they are saying things like:
“Sterling should have made his comments as a rap song since rap contains everything he supposedly said and worse and blacks seem to enjoy it.”
And that’s not even the start of it. “The worst possible crime you can commit in this country today is saying something that could be construed as racist.”
It is quite simple: His racist statements aren’t obsolete, but what a lot of people agree with.
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Good info from wiki:
In August 2006, the U.S. Department of Justice sued Sterling for housing discrimination in using race as a factor in filling some of his apartment buildings. The suit charged that Sterling refused to rent to non-Koreans in the Koreatown neighborhood and to African Americans in Beverly Hills.[23] The suit alleges Sterling once said he did not like to rent to Hispanics because they “smoke, drink and just hang around the building,” and that “Black tenants smell and attract vermin.”[23] In November 2009, ESPN reported that Sterling agreed to pay a fine of $2.73 million to settle claims brought by the Justice Department and Davin Day of Newport Beach that he engaged in discriminatory rental practices against Hispanics, blacks, and families with children.[24] In addition, Sterling was also ordered to pay attorneys’ fees and costs in that action of $4,923,554.75. In granting the attorney’s fees and costs Judge Dale S. Fischer noted “Sterling’s’ scorched earth’ litigation tactics, some of which are described by the Plaintiffs’ counsel and some of which were observed by the Court. The Court has no difficulty accepting Plaintiffs’ counsel’s representations that the time required to be spent on this case was increased by defendant’s counsel’s often unacceptable, and sometimes outrageous conduct.”
In February 2009, Sterling was sued by former longtime Clippers executive Elgin Baylor for employment discrimination on the basis of age and race.[25] The lawsuit alleges Sterling told Baylor that he wanted to fill his team with “poor black boys from the South and a white head coach”.[23] The suit alleges that during negotiations for Danny Manning, Sterling said “I’m offering a lot of money for a poor black kid.”[23][26] The suit noted those comments while alleging “the Caucasian head coach was given a four-year, $22-million contract”, but Baylor’s salary had “been frozen at a comparatively paltry $350,000 since 2003”.[25]
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^ came from
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donald_Sterling#Skid_Row_homeless_assistance_pledge
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Hank Aaron was right.
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Re: on filling one’s team with “poor black boys from the south”
“You just, do I know? I support them and given them food, and clothes, and cars, and houses. Who gives it to them? Does someone else give it to them? Do I know that I have – Who makes the game? Do I make the game, or do they make the game? Is there 30 owners, that created the league?”
Who does make the game?
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The NBA has banned Sterling for life.
The NBA will try to force him to sell the Clippers.
http://abcnews.go.com/US/nba-donald-sterling-banned-life/story?id=23513899
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His banning (he cannot even go to an NBA game!) comes on the heels of 15 sponsors cutting their ties with the Clippers:
CarMax,
State Farm,
Kia,
Virgin America,
Red Bull,
Mercedes-Benz,
LoanMart,
Southern California Ford Dealers,
Yokohama Tire,
Burger King,
Sprint,
Samsung,
Commerce Hotel & Casino,
Santa Ynez Band of Chumash Indians,
Corona beer.
http://www.latimes.com/local/la-sp-donald-sterling-clippers-20140429,0,220830.story#ixzz30Imy4acV
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Article 35 of the NBA Constitution, allows the commissioner to indefinitely suspend owners for “conduct prejudicial or detrimental to the association.”
http://www.latimes.com/local/la-sp-donald-sterling-clippers-20140429,0,220830.story#ixzz30Ip5bj00
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Well,I saw it here first, so , thanks for the good news, Abagond…
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The NBA will try to force him to sell the Clippers.
They probably won’t go for fair market price; who wants to go in with me? 😀
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@ King
“Nature Knows No Colour Line”
-J.A. Rogers
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Thank goodness he was banned.
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2.5 mil ain’t nothing to someone who is worth 2 billion and he can marvel at the robustness of his livestock from the comfort of his mansions and yachts.
I’ll consider it a victor if he is forced to sell the team.
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I’ve gotten some flack here over some of my opinions. I haven’t had a chance to determine what the sentence (i.e. meaning) of his remarks were in context, but I have no argument with Don Sterling being suspended for life. Whether he is really a racist or not, I don’t know. But some of the things he has done have crossed the line into the legal definition of racial discrimination. Others, sexual harassment or workplace harassment.
I don’t know what his relationship with Elgin Baylor was, but it must have been pretty pathological and dysfunctional considering he kept Baylor as GM for 22 years while the team kept on losing and losing. I saw Baylor play once live, at the Chicago Stadium near the end of his career. He no longer could play the game he once did, but he came up with one vintage Baylor move. Seeing that remains one of the highlights of my career as sports fan, I wish he could gave still been in the league when the Lakers finally won the championship, but Baylor arguably was the worst general manager in the history of North American major league sports, all four leagues. Maybe Baylor needed the money, salaries were low when he played, and he might not have been able readily to get another job at the same salary level. He may not have wanted to leave Los Angeles either.
If Don Sterling told Baylor that “he wanted a team with poor Southern blacks” and “white coach”, that was far worse than what he said to Vivian Stiviano. She was a kept woman. The “golden leash” is part of the deal. She chose her unusual career, when any number of women much like her got jobs with the city, state or county, got married and became moms. Or lived a normal single life if that was their choice.
Sterling is just a base man, almost beyond imagination. There is no comparison between him and someone like the iconoclastic rancher Cliven Bundy, who was just repeating some widespread folk beliefs about chattel slavery. Here was a guy who probably had worked every day of his long life since childhood, who knew viscerally that there is something wrong, very wrong, with intergenerational welfare. Not the first to say it and will not be the last. Bundy has been dropped as a topic because a racier issue has come along, but what he said is more important as an issue, both the question of folk beliefs and the more relevant question of intergenerational welfare. Myself, I’d rather go back and forth on Bundy’s remarks than on topic of an argument between a narcissistic billionaire and his narcissistic mistresses.
Some people have speculated that the fact that the argument was released was a set up intended to get the team up for sale. If that was the case, wasn’t that tampering? Reportedly, Magic Johnson has said that he is not interested in buying the Clipper. But it still could be tampering if he had a part in it. He’s a retired player. He could be subject to sanctions related to his perquisites as a former player, at that. No one gets to be a billionaire by wearing a white robe and handing out flowers. Some, Steve Jobs for example, have pretended to be New Age saints, but none of them are. If Magic Johnson isn’t a billionaire quite yet, he’s well on his way.
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Well i am glad this racist scumbag is going to be dealt with. Hit him in the wallet.
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I once heard someone say don’t try to make sense of racism because there’s no logic to it, but still, I can’t help but wonder what on earth since he is married to a Black woman? How has he not registered the fact that he’s sleeping next to an African American every night? Notice how he quickly disassociated the holocaust and the devastation of racism that it represented to his community from the perpetuation of racism against the Black community and the legacy of the slave trade and the institutional inhumanity of a people just because of their race.
It’s true, there’s no logic to it; none whatsoever.
(Eye roll.)
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Take into consideration he’s 80 years old. So he has had this racist mentality for a long time. But still there is a large segment of white America that still wants to say racism is dead. Seeing Cliven Bundy last week talking about how no good negroes were and now this with this Donald Sterling clown. Post Racial America my foot. *rolls eyes*
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@Ebonymonroe: Donald Sterling’s wife is a white woman. V. Steviano is the bi-racial mistress.
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It doesn’t matter is one is married to a black woman or in a sexual relationship they can still be racist.
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@Ebonymonroe: Sorry about that sister, reading is fundamental. I reread your comment, I understand now. “Oops” LOL!
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In the immortal words of Kanye West “I Ain’t Saying She’s A Goldigger” Well I am glad she exposed him. Well not really lots of people knew who and what this awful man was about. But I’m glad he’s getting penalized.
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When I heard this story first coming out, I was like “what did he say”…
when I heard what he said, my first thought was, “That’s it?!?”…. same sh’t, different day…. is anyone Really surprised.
For those of us who work with upper management and people with money, this mentality is nothing new….that’s why I don’t get it twisted about my place in the “world” of Don Sterlings … rich people who truly do believe that they are buying all of us black and brown “lesser mortals” everyday because they sign our PAYCHECKs.
As for this mestiza chick, God bless her…. it’s tough being a mixed “exotical” … everyone wants to tell you who you should be…. I hope she wins the court case and gets to keep her cars, money, and apartment. After laying down with that old crusty b’stard, she’s more than Earned her gold!
I’m just glad she found the “balls” to expose this old dinosaur, so he can go take a seat at the burial ground where you find the other old, racist white people who continue to run the world anyways because black and brown people are focused on the wrong d’mn things.
in order to “control”, you need to “own” free and clear….I hope Oprah or Magic Johnson buys the team…1 step at a time but as we all can see, 2 steps is needed to start shutting the “culture” down that allows people like Sterling to “not make the rules but enforce it”
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For anyone who catches my drift…otherwise i will leave it be.
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I’m sorry but I don’t see any difference between Sterling and bank presidents,doctors, CEO’s, Hollywood producers, educators, preachers. All the media coverage is pointing to Sterling himself as though his racism is a “personal problem” and not a systemic one. This is another “hypocrisy moment of deflection” not a moment of reflection.
Ewwwwwwww……..MAKES ME WANNA HOLLA
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By the way, money must be serious makeup for men because that face(Sterling’s) is not defying gravity. Maybe he could work for FOX like Krauthammer. Maybe he could hire a fellow white jewish person to hold up his face…good summer job.
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No one gets to be a billionaire by wearing a white robe and handing out flowers.
But how does one get to be a billionaire?
—————————————————–
Jacque said:By the way, money must be serious makeup for men because that face(Sterling’s) is not defying gravity.
Sigh, it’s not news that women respond well to money and power, is it?
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@ Linda
Gold!?
Yes Gold! 🙂
Damn girl! You struck a chord with me. Can Aba put a gold background behind your comment because that’s how much I liked it. Thanks Linda.
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racist white people who continue to run the world anyways because black and brown people are focused on the wrong d’mn things.
^ A piece of the gold, right there.
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V Stiviano was Sterling’s mistress. He bought a $2 million condo for her to live in. But it was all too much for her, so instead of ending the relationship in a conventional way, she decided to create as much havoc as possible in his life.
What for? She had a great thing going. But now it’s over and she’s likely to lose the condo and probably a lot more.
Did she hurt Sterling in a serious way? I’m sure he’s angry, but the team he bought for $12 million is now worth an estimated $600 million. He doesn’t have to worry about accepting a low-ball offer. There will be a bidding war.
Does any man want to see media coverage of his girlfriend in the company of other men? No. Like the scene in The Godfather, with movie producer Jack Woltz, who, before the horse’s head is cut off, rants at Tom Hagen about how Johnny Fontaine took his girl and made him look ridiculous, “and a man in my position cannot be made to look ridiculous.”
That’s Sterling. He felt like a cuckold, but only because she was making a public display of her connection to other men.
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This might sound weird or creepy, but if the team is for sale on the cheap, might be an opportune time for a Mainland Chinese billionaire to snap it up.
Not saying that that is the best option, but let’s see what happens.
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@MB
There is a dark side to this.
Since corporate white America is getting swifter and swifter at blackballing a white individual from saying things publicly about race, it will go even further underground. It means
– America will talk even less and less and less about race – avoiding the topic altogether
– The real institutionalized forms of race will not be affected at all. The corporate sponsors that pull out probably are just as racist as anyone. They just have a team of lawyers to handle it.
– race will be further erased from our history books.
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@jefe: Good points.
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Like Linda said “I wish Oprah or Magic would buy the team.” I think that would be ideal.
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@Legion,
I know. That is why it is difficult to envision see this woman as some kind of heroine. I am sure there are other owners with the same worldview who are checking for voice recorders and happy it was him ( Sterling) who got caught not them
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I hope the same NBA players realize that racism and sexism go hand in hand with white supremacy. You can’t just take the male privilege of white supremacy and leave the sexism part on the table. NO NO NO….Would there has been this outrage if the picture takers were female athletes of color? Would Sterling have been as repulsed with his phantom delicate flower taking pics with some ladies?.
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Yes and no. No one is “creating racism” it is one of many human outcomes. But do powerful people use racism as a lever for power, and to shape the world? The answer is yes. But racism is only one of many tools, it is never the end goal, just the prod.
No, the powers behind the scenes are not “racist” in the traditional sense of the word. They do not themselves believe in racism. They just use racism in the same way that they use war, philosophy, religion, and media, to control the way people think and react. It’s not the “White people,” it’s much older than that.
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I’m not a fan of V. Stiviano for the following reasons:
– I don’t admire women who sleep with other women’s husbands
– i don’t admire women who sleep with men for money, cars and condos.
– I don’t admire women who will sell out to racists
But all that being said, the RIGHT thing to do to a racist is expose him and denounce him. Make no mistake, a racist who sees his employees as owned slaves deserves any “havoc” that comes his way.
If you think it’s such a great thing, then you better move fast, because I think there’s an opening! You can buy yourself a teddy on the way over there.
Yes. He has been made a fool of. And one thing rich people hate is to be made a fool of , especially by people who they think they own. Secondly, he’s been able to hold of the other NBA owners up to now, despite the fact that he has been sorely disliked by them for years. They now have been given the tools diminish and expel him. The team is NOTHING without it’s sponsors which he is losing at lighting speed; it’s players most of which will not sign again while he is the owner; and it’s fans; who once the money and players are gone will not support Sterling finically. He is done.
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80 year old eunuch with a 30 year old bimbo. ROFLMAO.
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Ah, I see. Thank you for this post Abagond. I’ve heard about this tangentially and saw discussion on it on news programs but nothing this clear and concise. 🙂
I am sad that there are people like this, but I do want to ask. Do you think this means that there will be a discussion on the racial ‘animus’ between non-Whites and Blacks? I’ve mentioned racism between Asians and Blacks before but I don’t think this came up before. Thank you for posting. 🙂
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yes i am talking about this with my friends now its pretty lame, he just got banned
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unfortunately as white americans we have these sorts of people to represent us in the media and well that’s just not cool, man….
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Partly I have to wonder if the guy is kind of crazy. That and just what isn’t being revealed to the public has to be even weirder.
The way he was responding to her about being seen in public with black people either he’s been working so hard he’s simply that out of touch with society that he doesn’t know that is not as big an issue now….or it might hint at something else. He’s not worried about the bad image he’ll get with general society. Maybe he’s worried about what it will do to affect the image of other billionaires and super-rich people of him?
If so; this could be an indication that a strong percentage of the super elite are racist as all fuck.
That being said; most of the rich are well pretty much old…..so this really shouldn’t come as a surprise.
Beyond how weird about it he is but the racism in and of itself no.
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@ v8
It seems to me, Sterling is not an archetypal representation of white Americans. He is a “rich Jew”. He will be lauded by the dominant culture as long as it suits them and then dismissed (relative to his power and influence) when it no longer suits them. I think of the dominant white culture as, not white Jews, but Anglo. Then again, this way of thinking is a little too dichotomous: the various power centers of society are interconnected.
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dude im just saying this is what people look at on tv and say this white guy listen to this things he’s saying, you can put all that other ish on the side
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@ Jacque
I know. That is why it is difficult to envision see this woman as some kind of heroine.
Okay, you are right at the very root of the ad hominem fallacy there. We don’t have to see her as a heroine. Why is it better if Stiviano is a person of incredible character and virtue? If she has the virtue and integrity of Mother Theresa and Socrates rolled into one then she could certainly be more lionized, but is that really important. Of course, perhaps that is important in some sphere(s), but as far as the tape recording goes, Stiviano’s virtue and character, or the lack thereof, does not add to nor take away from the information on those recordings. See what I’m saying?
I’m reminded of Rosa Parks’ selection by the NAACP for the Montgomery civil disobedience act. Parks had no skeletons whatsoever in the closet and that was a key consideration in selection for the person who would kick off the bus boycott, with this initial and critical first civil disobedience act.
Years pass by, stories get told, events are remembered with warm feeling and with inspiration. It’s nice, but it can skew one’s sense of reality. Example: Hero worship. Problems with hero worship were discussed previously on the Rosa Parks thread but have been partially deleted now. I was very down on hero worship in that thread. Thing is though Malcolm X never would have become who he became without going through the period of utterly revering Elijah Muhammad.
Anyway, what I’m trying to get at is, there isn’t just one type of person who gets to be allowed to sound the alarm on a wrong doing. If Mephistopheles himself had presented the Sterling audio to the world, we shouldn’t lament that Jesus or Buddha (etc.) didn’t give it to us. We should live in the real world and allow all people to step forward and do what they do and deal with things as they come.
(When we are fortunate to encounter someone who is a real hero [whatever that subjectively means to us] we should cherish it.)
What do you think Jacque? I’m interested in your view.
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Okay v8, it’s something to think about.
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King said: A man who is that deathly afraid of losing his girlfriend to a stranger is either not a real man or an 80 year old Eunuch with a 30 year old bimbo.
Now, that is incredibly dichotomous but I don’t disagree. 😀
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@Mary Burrell
But still there is a large segment of white America that still wants to say racism is dead.
You are actually there, I only visit occasionally. It is very difficult for me to believe that the “post racial propaganda” is anything other than a media mantra. Significant numbers of real people are not saying it too, are they?
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I submitted a comment yesterday morning that, apparently, disappeared into thin air as soon as I clicked the “Post Comment” button.
Anyway, in it I questioned whether or not V. Stiviano’s and Sterling’s relationship was necessarily a s@xual one, and I based my question on two factors:
1.) In one of the recordings V. Stiviano states to Sterling that he is in love with her. This strikes me as an off-kilter thing to say to a person who is your lover / romantic partner. However, If said relationship is a one of, say, platonic arm trophy / escort, then that accusatory remark begins to make sense.
2.) Sterling stated to V. Stiviano that she could have s@x with Black guys if she wanted to, but that she should not be seen with them in public. Why would this seemingly racist billionaire openly state to a person with whom he is in love and with whom he is s@xually active as well, that she can have s@x, not simply with other men, but with Black men specifically?! This makes little sense to me.
As to him telling her not to bring Blacks to the games, what it sounds like to me is that Sterling basically views Black people as human trash. Apparently he feels that delicately beautiful white girls and Latinas (and most especially the ones who rub shoulders with powerful white billionaires) should not and do not publicly associate with human trash.
I myself am not at all shocked by any of this.
There are working- and middle-class whites who think only a wealthy, highly educated Black person (such as Bill Cosby) is a Negro worthy enough for them to invite to a meal at their home. As well, there are whites who think that there are no Blacks worthy of their respect, this is regardless of how learned / accomplished any given Black person might be. Donald Sterling very much strikes me as being the latter type.
[it seems evident to me that Sterling does NOT view V. Stiviano as being in anyway “Black”. To this end there are plenty of folks who categorize race according to their own eyeballs and prejudices rather than by the One Drop rule. As far as Sterling is seems concerned, V. Stiviano neither “looks Black” nor “acts Black”, and she is stunningly beautiful. Such perceptions might be all that matters to Sterling in regards to V. Stiviano’s ethnic background.]
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http://sports.nationalpost.com/2014/04/28/donald-sterling-incident-shows-the-dark-side-of-the-nbas-owner-player-relationship/
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I read that Stiviano is upset that this came out..as though a third party had something to do with the tapes coming out..
I get Sterling is thick skinned , and will,hunker down in his bunker as the media storm carries on…this guy doesnt care
I actualy think the banning is a good sign in the USA , that racist behaviour wont be tolerated in our siciety…racism still exists , racist proliferate , but , publicly , if a person in influential places exhibits racist behavior , they will have concequences…does that mean racism is solved ? Absolutly not..but , it is a step in the right direction to chip away at the problem.
Since everyone is giving their back porch opinion on the uber rich, here is mine…
The elite rich dont even think in terms of a country anymore..their country where they live is merely a formality, to be used to their advantage…they sometimes are in the election process , to gain power and money from other elite backers , who play both ends against the middle , if not some dictator who controls the wealth and wealthy in their country
In America , based on the growing minorities , that will surpass whites in the near future , some of these white elite dont even care about America , and look on it as a third world country, and living there is merely a formality
You can see this in the hyperbpredatory uber corporatiins who dont care about Americans and the well being of the country, they care about their investers and making profits , and stretch the reach of their corporations globaly. There are maybe some hidden uber elites higher up the ladder…but, in many respects, there is plenty of information out there to know who is the top fortune 500 , and who the most wealthy people are…dont forget to include people like Castro , who are part of the wealth power game also
There is not some handful of uber rich manipulating the world together..they manipulate the world facing off each other in a giant series of chess games , over recources , wealth and power, and it comes in all types of people
King made some good points about this process
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It’s like I always say. Racism doesn’t have to use racial epithets, wear white robes, Nazi paraphernalia, Confederate flags or come from low socioeconomics to be considered racist. The most powerful form of racism comes from offices and dwell within the mindsets of those who wear suits and ties. Donald Sterling just outed himself as one of those people. How many more have that same mindset?
Let’s not also ignore that Sterling has been noted as an a**hole since day one. From colleagues to tenants living in apartments he owns, all have said what a horrible person he is. Like someone pointed out in my blog has said, his recorded conversation was just the icing on the cake. If he has been overtly racist and difficult to work with this whole time, why wasn’t he booted then? The conversation was recorded and discovered for the world to see and hear. There’s no way Sterling can run from this.
And even though he’s banned, Sterling’s still going to be super rich. He will get by very, very, very, very, very well. He has friends and connections somewhere I imagine, and he will still be one of the ruthless rich.
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@Legion,
I wholeheartedly agree. I am glad she did what she did and Sterling was outed….not that he really cares. However a woman of color …whatever she looks like always walks a fine line when it comes to a sexist, racist media, The only reason she was believed was the recording and Sterling admitting to it. Why would he deny it at his stage in life? I hope this young lady wakes up and does well for herself in her future
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I think that people have he wrong idea about how this effects Sterling
Most of us assume that because a person has vast wealth that they are somehow immune and impregnable. We look at how much he is estimated to be worth and make our calculations, to decide that 2.5 Million is like spare change in his pockets.
However his is totally wrongheaded
People like Sterling would leave an even smaller tip at a restaurant than you would! They cut corners everywhere, and try to save money on things that are clearly ridiculous. Oh, they will spend on their own ego, lusts, and interests, but when it come to anything else, they despise spending their own money.
The problem is not that they don’t have the money to spend, the problem is that their minds have been so long trained to stinginess, that it has become almost a disease with them. Think of a hoarder who cannot throw anything away and piles up their house with boxes and boxes of junk. It’s a mental condition! Well, just like that is the love of money, and it HURTS much more than you realize to part with 2.5 Million dollars, because Sterling is so sensitive to losing money. But that is just the beginning, the sponsorships that he has lost represent multiple millions an were in fact, his gravy train. Take away also much of the fan spending on merchandise, and the magnitude of the financial disaster becomes even worse… all because of one stupid thing—his racism.
Another consideration is that once one has accumulated a certain amount of wealth, it’s no longer about the money, but about pride and lifestyle. You don’t have to worry about paying the bills, so other things become more prominent in your mind. Sterling had planned to live out these years as a basketball bigwig, and the Staples Center was to be his stage, where he could show up with young party girls on his arm and show off to the entire world. But that stage was instantly removed from him yesterday. He is no longer a “real power” in basketball. And there is nowhere else where he has a national stage. He has just had his favorite toys wrenched from his grasping fingers, and they will never be returned to him in the very few years of life he has left.
People like Sterling spend most their lives trying to get even with the world for not being born rich. Sterling started out as a divorce and accident lawyer. He then became a notorious LA slumlord. Most of his life he has been less than significant in the world of the super wealthy… a “dirty little Jew” who’s money came from chasing ambulances and renting to “human vermin.” The Clippers were the one thing that made him legitimate and important. They are the thing that has made him most of his money and now, that is gone.
This is the true evaluation of what V. Stiviano just did to him in one fell swoop.
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@King,
No. She doesn’t “look” white, but i think you should really be careful with that one King [not because you are wrong and don’t make any logical sense], but because i have already read suspicious comments on this thread about being mixed raced, hence my last comment before this one.
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Even knowing he will crawl back under his rock and be quite well off , and , knowing there are many like him, Mel Gibson, for example , and racism still exists institutionaly , its still healthy for society to make people like him and Paula whatever her name is, pariahs…the public message does get sent to young people , and that is good…
In the Miami herald , there is an article where her lawyer is saying the women is upset this information came out and that she didnt have anything to do with it coming out….Id be cautious about praising or criticising her until the facts are straight….
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from what i have read tmz.com broke the story by releaseing the tape
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Every sports owner from every league in America feels this way as Donald Sterling. And though you think you have white friends, you’ll be amazed at how much racism is in their veins (is it genetic?) when you start “joking” with them. Black People WORLDWIDE need to wake up. Seriously. This is getting irritating.
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“And though you think you have white friends, you’ll be amazed at how much racism is in their veins (is it genetic?) when you start “joking” with them.”
I’m always in an odd position relative to remarks like this. I am someone the world always considers white, judging by my appearance, though it has nothing to do with the racial persecution my family endured for centuries, and the psychological identity that created in me, or the associations I’ve formed in my adult life as a result. I took stock lately, and the only white people in my world was a lady with a black son-in-law and another whose boyfriend spent four days in a jail cell with Martin Luther King and Ralph Abernathy. Such is my world. My marriage was biracial, as are my children. I was so persecuted for ‘crossing that line’ and living on what the world considered the wrong side of the color line just to be with the people who were familiar to me, that I long ago constituted my livelihood so that I would never again be working for white people, and spend years of my life investing in a career just to lose it when some jealous white guy like Sterling slobbers all over me when he realizes who I’m sleeping with,
I KNOW absolutely how racist white people are, they’ve told me and shown me in intimate detail for years. They don’t think they have to hide anything from me. Nonetheless, when you make a statement like ‘is it genetic’ a whole other set of distresses jump up coming from experiences with people of color who steadfastly refuse to see who I am, but are constantly reading things into what I say or do that have nothing to do with me. It’s just about them presuming on my ‘race,’ or worse, venting their rage concerning racism onto me, as if I deserved it.
Everybody does it. Everybody does it all the time. It probably is genetic. If you want to avoid making anyone feel that way, it will help to avoid the categorical remarks.
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@ Average Bee
Black People WORLDWIDE need to wake up. Seriously.
And what gets done after we all “wake up” in the way that you wish. What would you want to happen next?
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Blech. Sterling is a notorious dirtbag who the league tolerated for years. On top of that, he’s was such a bad owner that since he’s owned the Clippers it has the lowest winning % of ANY major professional sports team in the four major sports leagues (NBA, NFL, MLB, NHL). That’s an astoundingly bad management record. Good riddance!
Stiviano is just one of the dime a dozen plastic “LA girls” hanging around the celebrity scene out there. I don’t mind that she was the final straw, so to speak, that put the odious Sterling out to pasture. She’s working a nice hustle for herself right now but should probably cash out soon while the iron is hot.
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^ LOL!
I like to go through the motions on these sorts of things, just so the evidence is incontrovertible. Stiviano would agree, I’m sure.
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Do people really think he’s the only white racist team owner? What about the NFL? Baseball? Hockey league? Okay so what! You got rid of ONE bigot team owner. Now you have about 70 more to go.lol Black people have to learn not to be so emotional about these things that are very small in the the larger scheme of things.
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Never heard of this old codger, but could someone be so good as to explain what the following means? I expect it is something sexual, but…
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@ Kiwi & sondis, Kiwi: “We can learn several things from this:
1. A white man being married to a nonwhite woman doesn’t prove he’s not racist.
2. White-identified Jews are just as racist towards nonwhites as other whites, despite their understanding of anti-Semitism.
3. Working underneath a white racist and providing him a large share of his wealth reinforces his notions of white racial paternalism.
4. Anti-blackness means white racists place blacks beneath other minorities, to the point of even telling their mixed race black partners to identify as non-black.
5. White racists do not want their nonwhite partners to associate with their own race, as that would lower their own racial status.
6. White racism is excused as being the normal way of things (culture), allowing color-blind racism to go unchallenged and leaving it subtly reinforced. This perpetuates racism, making it harder to fight.”
sondis: “Here is another, “teachable moment” that will come and go like it always do, being white people will refuse to talk about race.
The only talk about race a white person wants to have is to accuse, black people of being the racist ones for bringing up race in the 1st place. lol.”
Well said!
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Bulank said, Never heard of this old codger, but could someone be so good as to explain what the following means? I expect it is something sexual, but…
Seems to me, ain’t no so-called “ho’s” “making it rain” on their own ass.
So, it takes monumentally swole big brass ass balls to blame THEM ’cause YOU like feeding the kitty.
Well “ho’s” is a derogative term towards females which means you’re the lowest piece of trash in society and deserve to be treated as such. “Making it rain” means showering in tremendous wealth.
The rest isn’t quite as clear to me now like the “swole big brass ass balls” he might be referring to how black people have “literally big balls”. Hope that helps.
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@ George Ryder
Blade Runner.
———————
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Bulanik,
“but could someone be so good as to explain what the following means? I expect it is something sexual, but…”
“Seems to me, ain’t no so-called “ho’s” “making it rain” on their own ass.
So, it takes monumentally swole big brass ass balls to blame THEM ’cause YOU like feeding the kitty.”
You suspect correctly. “Making It Rain” usually refers to when guys throw money at strippers on the pole or on the stage generally. They throw it up in the air and it falls like “rain” on the strippers booty or the stage and it may lead to um…other..things later. It’s a gratuitus display or “balla” wealth.
That quote you are referencing is hilarious. but like most things, it takes two to tango. The so-called “ho’s” may not make it rain on their own bootys but they willingly stick their near naked tails under the storm clouds and hope to get wet. lol
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Ks, aha!
From where I am standiıng the meaning was really obscure. Thanks.
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Sterling is far from out. The NBA leadership may try to pressure him, but few of the owners want to see him driven out with a 75 percent vote because one of the other owners might find himself in hot water and also driven toward an unwanted sale.
Sterling’s ownership has brought him a huge capital gain. From a purchase price of $12 million to a current value of $600 million or possibly much more. If he’s forced to sell, he’ll pay 1/3 of the gain in taxes. That’s at least $200 million. So he’s gonna put his lawyers to work and do whatever he can do to stop the league from forcing a sale.
Meanwhile, if he dies, his family would inherit the team tax-free. Furthermore, the NBA commissioner went way overboard and made the situation a far larger media circus than it should have been.
Suddenly Don Sterling is the hottest story in America. Bigger than anything else in the country, or, from the perspective of an American, bigger than the events in the Ukraine and, these days, who even cares about Syria?
The commissioner should have met privately with Sterling. In the end, the biggest loser in this sideshow will be V Stiviano. She looks just old enough that she’s begun to appear a little over-ripe. Her exotic look has lost its power to hold anyone’s attention as long as it used to.
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Legıon
‘This dude Sterling is out of his freakin’ tree. Is he serious. Stiviano totally has the cheek bone structure of new world Indians of the southern American region; can dip shit not see that? Look at her lips, look at the “moon” face.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Huichol_indian.jpg‘
——————————————
LOL! Thıs thread ıs great, and cheerıng me up no end.
I also have a feelıng that Ms Stıvıano’s lovely face may have benefıtted from a temporal lıft. Also perhaps fat transfers (harvested from lıposculpture from the lower face, etc) and added to the upper cheeks and lıps, to brıng out the contours of those partıcular — and naturally occurrıng — features.
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I just had a conversation with my son and I said some very private less than favorable things that certainly many would take offense. I was expressing personal emotion and expectation with a love one.
I believe very strongly that when you are alone with the people, you associate and relate to in your private life that conversation is private and personal and you should be able to express your sentiments! (whatever they may be)
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phoebeprunelle @
No. She doesn’t “look” white, but i think you should really be careful with that one King [not because you are wrong and don’t make any logical sense], but because i have already read suspicious comments on this thread about being mixed raced, hence my last comment before this one:
“However, many mulattoes struggle to define themselves positively WITHOUT maligning blacks.”
For anyone who catches my drift…otherwise i will leave it be.
Linda says,
phoebeprunelle, curiosity has gotten the better of me –what do you mean?
in what way are the comments “suspicious” concerning V Stiviano and being mixed race?
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“Booker DeWitt
@ Kiwi & sondis, Kiwi: “We can learn several things from this:
1. A white man being married to a nonwhite woman doesn’t prove he’s not racist.
2. White-identified Jews are just as racist towards nonwhites as other whites, despite their understanding of anti-Semitism.
3. Working underneath a white racist and providing him a large share of his wealth reinforces his notions of white racial paternalism.
4. Anti-blackness means white racists place blacks beneath other minorities, to the point of even telling their mixed race black partners to identify as non-black.
5. White racists do not want their nonwhite partners to associate with their own race, as that would lower their own racial status.
6. White racism is excused as being the normal way of things (culture), allowing color-blind racism to go unchallenged and leaving it subtly reinforced. This perpetuates racism, making it harder to fight.”
sondis: “Here is another, “teachable moment” that will come and go like it always do, being white people will refuse to talk about race.
The only talk about race a white person wants to have is to accuse, black people of being the racist ones for bringing up race in the 1st place. lol.”
Well said!”
Thanks and very good 1-6 points you made. I would have said the same things, myself. ^_^
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on Wed 30 Apr 2014 at 08:46:09 Pay It Forward said
“I submitted a comment yesterday morning that, apparently, disappeared into thin air as soon as I clicked the “Post Comment” button.
Anyway, in it I questioned whether or not V. Stiviano’s and Sterling’s relationship was necessarily a s@xual one, and I based my question on two factors:
1.) In one of the recordings V. Stiviano states to Sterling that he is in love with her. This strikes me as an off-kilter thing to say to a person who is your lover / romantic partner. However, If said relationship is a one of, say, platonic arm trophy / escort, then that accusatory remark begins to make sense.”
………………………………………………………………
I dunno, I doubt there aren’t tons of instances of men telling their lovers they’re in love with them. I would imagine that’s faulty reasoning. It’s possible, but it’s also possible that Sterling would not give up that amount of cash for free.
…………………………………………………………………..
2.) Sterling stated to V. Stiviano that she could have s@x with Black guys if she wanted to, but that she should not be seen with them in public. Why would this seemingly racist billionaire openly state to a person with whom he is in love and with whom he is s@xually active as well, that she can have s@x, not simply with other men, but with Black men specifically?! This makes little sense to me.
……………………………………………………………………….
This actually reminded me of that old way of thinking where a White woman would be punished by her White husband by being forced to have s*xual relations with a Black man in front of her White male partner. And, the stereotype of this being a fantasy of many White men. I would imagine that Sterling didn’t expect exclusivity, and therefore, had no problem with who she was with in private. He seems to perceive public association with Black people as being undignified PR.
………………………………………………………………………………..
As to him telling her not to bring Blacks to the games, what it sounds like to me is that Sterling basically views Black people as human trash. Apparently he feels that delicately beautiful white girls and Latinas (and most especially the ones who rub shoulders with powerful white billionaires) should not and do not publicly associate with human trash.
……………………………………………………………………….
I agree, that too is my perception.
……………………………………………………………
I myself am not at all shocked by any of this.
There are working- and middle-class whites who think only a wealthy, highly educated Black person (such as Bill Cosby) is a Negro worthy enough for them to invite to a meal at their home. As well, there are whites who think that there are no Blacks worthy of their respect, this is regardless of how learned / accomplished any given Black person might be. Donald Sterling very much strikes me as being the latter type.
…………………………………………………………….
I am curious as to weather Sterling (who, as a Jewish man of some age, who has probably experienced much discrimination in his life, particularly in his younger is), has adopted a White racist view in order to fit in to further establish himself as White throughout his life in order to distinguish himself from being non White.
………………………………………………………………..
[it seems evident to me that Sterling does NOT view V. Stiviano as being in anyway “Black”. To this end there are plenty of folks who categorize race according to their own eyeballs and prejudices rather than by the One Drop rule. As far as Sterling is seems concerned, V. Stiviano neither “looks Black” nor “acts Black”, and she is stunningly beautiful. Such perceptions might be all that matters to Sterling in regards to V. Stiviano’s ethnic background.]
…………………………………………………………………….
I found this to be very strange, as I registered her Black ancestry immediately, so I do not understand how he was able to disassociate her Blackness in order to live completely loyally to his bigoted, hateful beliefs.
But as I said before, racism is illogical.
Do you guys remember in “Do the right thing” where Spike Lee’s character questioned his racist Italian coworker on his racist views despite his favourite musician, and athlete, etc. . .. being Black? And the Italian guy responded by saying “they’re bigger than Black.” People cut a paste facts, members of races, and ideology to cling to their doctrine despite the flaws. This is even a pattern among trolls on this site who get confronted with facts that crumbles their own imagination of POC that they come in with, but they do not budge, they just move on to the next thread, it doesn’t cause their philosophy to change direction. It you look closely, you’ll see this is the pattern with every racist you debate with, Sterling has just remained faithful to it.
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I wonder if anyone has an opinion on Homeboy Sandman’s written response to the Sterling incident and how NBA players responded. Abagond care to comment?…”Black people are cowards: http://gawker.com/black-people-are-cowards-1568673014/all” and Kimberly Foster’s response: “Who’s a Coward?: http://www.forharriet.com/2014/04/whos-coward-flawed-logic-of-faux.html
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@ Crystal
I understand your sentiments, but please allow me to help you to see beyond the erroneous idea that this is somehow a privacy or a free speech issue.
Let’s leave your son out of it. But let us say that If you have a conversation with some future boyfriend, and in it you say some things that are quite offensive and perhaps personal. Now, what if your boyfriend gets mad at you one day and tells everything that you said to him all over town? Soon everybody knows everything that you said. I ask the question, who’s fault is that?
Obviously it is your boyfriends fault… he is the one who told everyone else what you said. But wait a minute… IT IS ALSO YOUR FAULT, because
1) Being offensive is not a right, even in private. If you say something nasty about someone and it get’s back to them, they will not cut you much slack when your only explanation is that you didn’t think it would get back to them! Bad character is MOST OFTEN revealed by the things that you say when you don’t think other people are watching or listening.
2) You are in control of your own decisions and one of those decisions is who you place your TRUST in. Now, if you foolishly place your trust in a boyfriend who is 50 years younger than you, and who you are basically paying to be your boyfriend with money and gifts, then you are showing extremely poor judgement and lack of wisdom. Being a Fool has consequences, and when your business is out of the street, it is because you put it out there with your foolish decisions.
This isn’t about “big brother” eavesdropping, This isn’t a referendum on modern society. This is about Fools making foolish decisions and reaping the bitter reward for their stupidity. Almost all of the arguments being made along this line are completely fallacious attempts to try and gin up pity for a a fool who received his just desserts.
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“Sterling stated to V. Stiviano that she could have s@x with Black guys if she wanted to, but that she should not be seen with them in public. Why would this seemingly racist billionaire openly state to a person with whom he is in love and with whom he is s@xually active as well, that she can have s@x, not simply with other men, but with Black men specifically?! This makes little sense to me.”
—
Maybe he has a kink. Oh my god, this story could get really gross. I don’t want to hear it. Please, don’t let some story come out that half the team was, no. I don’t want to hear it. But that’s very commonly what most white racists think it is. Sex with black people. Really nasty. Of course there will be people who fulfill the stereotype. There always are.
I mean, it’s not unusual, for very old men, well, you know. All they can do is watch. . . And after a lifetime of very alienated relationships, being an asshole abusing his way to top, his fantasy life is beyond bizarre.
And I saw a picture of his daughter, cute, sweet, little girl about 20, in the center of a party-like scene surrounded by about 20 bright, athletic looking young black men, most of whom were turned towards her. She was smiling, looking comfortable. It seemed friendly in a good way. This was on Twitter, which I don’t do, and the third commenter down identified himself as a brother and said that she should be gang banged.
So, I’m curious, who, when they read that, thought, so what? And if enough people do, we’ll be on our way to a race war. It doesn’t even have to be that many. It was a few Croatian housepainter immigrants in Canada who instigated the Civil War in the Balkans in the Nineties, children of homicidal fascists who’d sadistically slaughtered hundreds of thousands of people in the Forties. It made the commandants at Auschwitz sick to their stomachs to hear what was going on.
There are going to be lots of race wars as the climate deteriorates. That’s the first step, people start speaking of the other side as less than human and/or deserving of cruelty. And if they are unchallenged, with no consequences, like horrible publicity, financial ruin and humiliation, they can take over really easy and pretty soon everyone hates themselves for what horrible things they do, but project their self hatred onto other innocents, and the whole thing keeps going another cycle, getting even more vicious, until Planet Earth is at last relieved of the burden of most of her human population.
And, of course, armed minorities are always the first to go.
I don’t know, I think we may have been the first armed minority to become extinct in modern times, the Krajina Serbs. Probably not, it’s hard to say, Who ever pays attention to those things? That’s how it happens. Nobody cares. That’s all it takes. Nobody caring. Just letting it happen.
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@ Bulanik
I am always pleased to put a smile on your face.
———————————————————–
[cue romantic and playful Cole Porter music :D]
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stupid wordpress. let’s try that again:
😀
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@Bulanik
I also have a feelıng that Ms Stıvıano’s lovely face may have benefıtted from a temporal lıft. Also perhaps fat transfers (harvested from lıposculpture from the lower face, etc) and added to the upper cheeks and lıps, to brıng out the contours of those partıcular — and naturally occurrıng — features.
Ugh YES! Thank you for saying it B. I couldn’t put my finger on my lack of ease with her face but I know what it is now. My eye must be picking up misproportion in her face due to the work she’s had done. Karma Gods forgive me but I don’t think she’s gonna age too well. With her already very developed cheek structure she should have known better than to tamper with it.
White people panic if they have to cut black hair. How in the hell are they gonna do competent plastic surgery on a totally non western American Indian “moon” facial structure?
[I’m here for rest of the rest of the week folks. 😀 ]
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Linda said, in reply to Phoebe;
I share Lında’s curıousıty…..
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Legion,
LOL! Yes Bulanik is on point. Stiviano defenitely had some work done (e.g. lips, cheeks, botox, etc.) and is not going to age well at all but that look never does.
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She looked more like a black woman pre-surgery. Very pretty. Too bad everything got to her and she butchered her face.
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I cosign with Bulanik, she has been pulled. I kind of wondered about that. But that’s how it goes in that superficial lifestyle. But the awful thing is you when other stuff starts falling you have to keep pulling and tucking. But that’s what she signed up for. So she has to keep things tight.
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What’s done in the dark comes to the light.
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If the high school yearbook photo I saw of Vanessa Stiviano or Maria Perez is accurate, I’d say she had surgery to “take some of the black out”. In the same vein as Halle Berry, and Kimora Lee.
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@king
Being offensive may not be a right, but neither is being offended. You can’t just pigeon hole people into a type of conformity you desire by claiming to be offended at everything you do not want them to do. Which is what is going on here. It’s not about a white guy saying racist remarks, its about how people didn’t like it. Why should people have to conform to what your desires are? Why is your idea of offensive even the correct one? Who cares if the guy said racist stuff? How does it effect your day to day? It doesn’t.
As for being in control of your own decisions, this is correct. Which means you are able to choose not to get offended by what someone else says. People do it all the time, its a demonstrable ability. Since you are able to choose to not be offended, then when you are offended its because you chose to be. Which means no one else is responsible for changing what they say because it makes you feel uncomfortable.
The guy apparently said nasty stuff about black folk, he’ll get what ever consequences that has, whether they are just or unjust. [Mostly they are unjust.]
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I did notice that her nose is very very tiny in comparison to the rest of her features and face. It has a wittled down look to it, and it’s a bit misaligned as well; I figured she must have had a rhinoplasty performed at some point.
Her brow, lips, and the area near her eyes and cheekbones all look natural to me.
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@ Jafar As-Saleem
Ok there, technocrat of the mind! 😀
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Jafar As-Saleem
So let me understand you—People have the right to say “nasty stuff about black folk” but Black folk don’t have a similar right to be offended by the nasty things said about them. In fact, they should simply make an intellectual decision not to be offended by it.
Questions for you:
1) What is wrong with being offended by something?
2) What are the “mostly unjust consequences” that Sterling has received?
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I didn’t say people had the right to say nasty stuff.
Nor did I say there was something wrong with being offended by something.
Be offended all you want, but remember that you are choosing to be offended. So when your being offended by something leads to actual harm in yourself, know that it was your choice, your fault.
Having said that, being offended by something doesn’t mean anyone else has to do anything about it, forcing others to do something about it is unjust. Being offended by something, and expecting someone else to do something about it is privilege. Being offended is a personal problem. If you have no issues with having personal problems, fine. 🙂
It’s not an “intellectual decision”, its called using critical thinking skills and not emotions in your day to day. It’s the difference between someone stepping on your shoe and you either A. Do nothing and move on or B. Get offended and start a fight with the guy.
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Sitting here listening to the news and the report is that Sterling has prostate cancer.
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“King
Jafar As-Saleem
So let me understand you—People have the right to say “nasty stuff about black folk” but Black folk don’t have a similar right to be offended by the nasty things said about them. In fact, they should simply make an intellectual decision not to be offended by it.
Questions for you:
1) What is wrong with being offended by something?
2) What are the “mostly unjust consequences” that Sterling has received?”
King:
I smell a white person with a black/brown sounding name, AKA Black sock puppet in Jafar As-Saleem. what say you? @ : o O ) >
Only a white person could downplay racism and its effect on black people like this. Its the same old trope being used, “get over it” is what Jafar As-Saleem is pretty much saying.
Blaming the victim…..”its your fault if you get offended by racism.” “You’re choosing to get offended” “maybe if you ignore racism, then it won’t effect you!” please….spare me… -_-
I just simplified it…
Time waits for no man….
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http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/05/01/sterling-tape-leaked-third_n_5250370.html
whether its true or not, her lawyer is saying the woman didnt drop the dime on him…it also sais they werent having sex, which i dont know if i beleive…but, they are claiming a third party broke it to tmz
if they were having sex, i can imagine an 80 year old man , having been divorced, taking his viagra after his afternoon nap and accepting an open relationship…that could be possible, but all this doesnt excuse his racism and feeling threatened by black men…im glad he got banned..there are white men threatened sexualy by black men…b ut, its not the universal rule,im sure not threatoned sexualy by black men, because we went through puberty rites together, and I was accepted into a black social scene…black men were my role models and social guides in social situations with black women
but this guys fear and bias come shining through
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@ Jafar As-Saleem
I would think that much would be obvious. I choose to be offended by things that I deem to be offensive.
Oh, I see! You have worked it out in your own mind that although you do not hold that “there is something wrong with being offended” that it is nevertheless, personally harmful, in your estimation. So by that logic, there is nothing wrong with cancer, except the fact that it kills you. Your logic is impeccable.
That would be true if every offense was simply personal and relative, but it is not. As a society, we define offense, both as codes of law, and in codes of social conduct. Things like racism, injustice, or stealing are seen as harmful because they damage society… not because they are a personal preferences of the offended.
You also make the mistake of implying that taking offense is somehow “emotional” while not taking offense is “critical thinking,” which is a blatant and erroneous bias. A person can be just as emotional about denying what is offensive. And taking offense is often the product of considered thought and studied judgement.
What you are saying is absolute nonsense.
I’m curious why you skipped answering this question more specifically?
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^ 2) What are the “mostly unjust consequences” that Sterling has received?”
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@ Jafar As-Saleem
This man was actively discriminating against people of color! That’s illegal! Of course he should get in trouble.
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the interesting and sad part of this story is not that you have a old ugly racist white male ,who has accumulated billions ,some if not most of which was made via racist discrimination,who was exposed by a virtual prostitute,
but that the former (forced to resign as a result of this incident) head of the la naacp was planing on giving this ,well known racist before the comments, a life time achievement award!
Also after a interesting npr radio interview I looked up the author of this title –
Forty Million Dollar Slaves: The Rise, Fall, and Redemption of the Black Athlete Paperback
by William C. Rhoden
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“Pay It Forward,
Her brow, lips, and the area near her eyes and cheekbones all look natural to me.”
I think you are right. Here is a photo of her in high school –her lips were full then. She claims she got the plastic surgery due to her bad acne and low self-esteem.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2617020/EXCLUSIVE-From-dirt-poor-daughter-Mexican-mother-used-kids-steal-plastic-princess-Donald-Sterlings-arm-The-rise-V-Stiviano-disturbing-racial-secret-mysterious-changes.html
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She obviously had a nose job. she looked way better in high school!
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@Lında
No, what that old photo shows that there’sfar more goıng on that: the brow, lower lıp and eye areas have ALL been done..Just look at her eyes and eyebrow for a second…
Compare agaın the old photo and the photos ın Aba’s artıcle and look at:
the volume of the cheeks ın relatıon to the lower face…
the greater upward and upward slant of the eyes and eyebrow
the bottom lıp balance to the upper.
That’s achıeved by a ‘temporal lıft’ (the kınd of facelıft whıch pulls upward from around the temple) fat removal (by lıpo) around the jaw and some of ıs then put back to ‘extend’ the chın and gıve more defınıtıon to the shape to the cheeks.
The lower lıp can also be fılled out more usıng thıs method and by fat ınjectıons to the nasolabial folds for greater smoothness…
That surgıcal combo for ‘contourıng & projectıon’ ıs not unusual for face-work, For some, It’s The Standard request to achıeve what ıs consıdered (ın some cırcles at least) stunnıng ‘model’ looks.
(https://abagond.wordpress.com/2014/04/28/donald-sterling/#comment-230668)
@Kıng.
True: the nose job ıs the most obvıous (lol)..
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I just had to shake my he a day and laugh at this one.
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Correction My head*
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It seems the media is at it again. when someone gets caught being racist they always gotta divert attention away from the racist. It seems bringing up the naacp was going to give this clown an award and them saying how could they not know to now they are digging up Vanessa stiviano’s record. Yes let’s not cover the racist and all the things he said let’s go after any and everything that was associated with him but not actually keep the focus on him. I don’t feel sorry for the naacp or his ex gf, it is their karma, but u let somebody of color do something like this and they would keep the attention on them.
now they also focusing on Michael Jordan saying he hated white people when he was younger, smh. trying to equate the two, but they are not the same, f it im not defending Michael Jordan sell out arse.
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Ms TooGood,
Glad to see you’re still around – and still hitting the nail on the head!
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^ lol hey matari. yeah i’m still here just been lurking and busy, how u been?
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Ms. TooGood,
I’ve been kinda like you, not commenting as much as I’d like to ….
Otherwise, I’m good. : )
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Hahaha!
http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2014/05/donald-sterling-defends-himself-in-new-recording.html
He needs to really stop talking.
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ok. i hate how people keep calling donald sterling white. donald sterling IS NOT WHITE. he is JEWISH. it’s so obvious that he doesn’t consider himself white. he considers himself jewish like he’s some superior race. he is racist to whites as well, apparently he didn’t want to pay some basketball player named redick because he’s white. this kind of reinforces the notion that many “white” jews are jewish first, second, and third. and white fourth. donald sterling is a jewish racist who is racist against all gentiles, white or black. this needs to be said. oh but i bet this will never happen.
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germanmoviesenglishsubs
“oh but i bet this will never happen.”—It will. Just as soon as one of his side chicks records him being racist to a white person.
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Donald Sterling needs to keep his mouth shut.
But, indeed, he sounds like some of the white commenters on this blog, e.g.,
– I am not a Racist (R-word)
– deflecting towards some moral character failing of a black American, (in this case, Magic Johnson).
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I don’t think the PR firms and the Lawyers will let him, at this point. He has to do the requisite dance of feigning contrition, saying that he was misunderstood, and asking for a second chance. All things to make his counter lawsuit more effective, and salvage his public image.
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@GR
I think if you are below the age of 80, there is still a pretty good chance that you’re a racist. I don’t think it has changed that much.
What has changed is that the under 50 crowd has become a colour-blind racist and have adjusted their language. The over age 80 crowd learned to talk in the 1930s-1950s and still use that language.
The over age 80 crowd did not grow up with many Latinos and Asians unlike the under age 30 crowd today. That is different.
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@ George
I think the change has been 80% style, 20% substance:
style:
substance:
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Hey, my maternal grandparents and their entire families were white people who grew up in rural Alabama. After they got married, they moved to a larger town (Anniston) and we *KNOW* what happened there. Believe me I know what mindset they had.
A lot has changed for sure, but a lot hasn’t. Even the stuff that has changed just changed into something else. I just think people nowadays “know” that they are not supposed to talk about it, but not talking about it does not make it go away. It just becomes the elephant in the room.
What has changed – white people nowadays have a mortal fear of being called a racist.It is just as if you called them the Devil. They didn’t like it before, but now they fear it like the plague. In that sense, Donald Sterling is no different from a 25-30 year old.
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^Actually there were no “White people” at the beginning of time.
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That was a pure deflection. OK, replace “Devil” with “darth vader” then.
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@ George
Well, you must remember that they were “invented” as a social concept. Outside of that, they do not exist.
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George Ryder says: White folks have been called devil since the beginning of time.
You’d think they’d be used to it by now.
Let me be the first white guy to tell you that whites don’t care about the name-calling. It’s amusing.
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“I think the change has been 80% style, 20% substance:”
I agree. They’ve become much more guarded. As a white-looking person I used to have to listen to the most unbelievable crap everywhere I went, now they’ve shut up, but that doesn’t mean they’ve changed the way they feel. That will still come out in the way they behave towards you.
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I think this is the moment I bust out into uncontrollable laughter as one white guy attempts to tell another what white people care about.
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Hi Linda KC
Nice to see you posting
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@George
Maybe next week he will be telling you how to be more white. ROFL
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George Ryder
It is interesting you mention that as my husband challenged me a few days ago to start identifying as something else on documents. I have yet to take the opportunity, but I am curious to see where this goes.
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Thank you, Sharina.
George said, “i’d like to think the fact that you aren’t hearing as much racism in your inner circles says something good is happening.”
LOL That’s not my inner circle. I stopped and tallied up the last 40 years of my life and about 75% of that time I’ve lived in a black household. For six years, recently, I was enumerated as the head of a black household (that’s determined by the children, in reference to school funding polls). The way ‘white’ women living that way are treated has been so bad that I pretty thoroughly retreated. Currently, if there’s someone white I’ve brought into my inner circle there will be something going on like her son-in-law is black, or her boyfriend spent four days in a jail cell with Martin Luther King and Ralph Abernathy. LOL. Lacking that, I keep my distance. It’s not something I really thought about, just what I did.
It could be I don’t hear as much because I stopped listening a long time ago. I’d heard enough at way too close range.
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@ George
Well he can hardly call out the rest of us by name.
Magic Johnson has probably done more direct investment in Black communities than any 100 sports figures put together.
Here in LA, he started out with Starbucks franchises, opening them in neighborhoods not thought to fit “the market strategy.” But he then went on to open Family Fitness Centers. He opened his own movie theater (in the hood) and was involved in improving the Crenshaw Shopping Center Mall. Not to mention the endless parks that he has sponsored and foundations and grants that he has funded.
To put it bluntly, Stupid Sterling has NO IDEA what he’s talking about when he criticizes Magic Johnson’s contribution to the minority community. He’s probably just to dense to have checked the record before opening his mouth on the issue I imagine that by now, he realizes what a fool he made of himself with that accusation.
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@Sharina
Why, what happened?
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Here we go again…Its Paula Deen, Don Imus, Dog the bounty hunter and now Don Sterling that got the, “I’m not a racist” syndrome.
I find it so ridiculous that not one single white person, that says racists words and does racist acts, are “NOT RACISTS”. Why can’t white people just be brave and honest for once and admit, they are racist and want help on changing it?
I mean, WHAT IS RACIST, NOW? if these white people aren’t racist, then who and what words, are racist?
White people have crafted this whole victim mentality, whenever they get caught, saying something racist. It works for them, being they control everything and will always support each other and give other whites, passes for racism. This is a perfect example on how, white supremacy functions.
White supremacy is how white people can exhibit racist behavior, say racist things toward black people and still not worry about being labeled a racist by other whites.( not to mention, consequences )
Yeah, they’ll be embarrassed over it all and shunned for a little while, being they broke the white code of conduct of white supremacy and that is to never speak of their racism, where they could be heard by the public. So they’re not really sorry, they’re just sorry they got caught.
Then after they lay low for a couple weeks, months or maybe years, they’ll be back in the spot light, making millions again….aka Paula Deen, Don Imus and Michael Richards from the TV Show, Seinfeld. with his “N” word stand up tirade. ( now he stars in a new sitcom on a major TV station ) I am not surprised…..
Who cares if black people accuse white people of being a racist, it doesn’t even matter if its true, because it only matters when white people, acknowledge other whites as being racist.
Do you think any of these white people i mentioned above, would have done a interview with say…Al sharpton? or Jesse Jackson or hell, even Marc Lamont Hill?, heck no!
Whites that get caught, saying racist words about black people will always run to the Anderson Coopers and Barbra Walters of the white media.
They know that their fellow white people will handle them with kid gloves and won’t come at them, being they are looking at another white person, that shares their skin color and race or ethnicity.
Whites are no different then black in the sense that, when one black person does something wrong, all blacks feel the sting and shame, being white people have always stereotypes blacks as a monolithic body.
White experience this too but in a very different way. They see other whites as a reflection as themselves, being whites gauge their self worth on being white.
So when another white person is caught being racist, they feel convicted, being it challenges white people’s squeaky clean image of themselves ,which is completely false but it thrives, being its held up via white supremacy.
The thing is this, passes are not for white people to give, its for black people that are the victims of racism to give. White people have and never will understand this concept.
It should be up to blacks and other people of color to choose, if and when we give a white person a pass for racism but we are never even ASKED OR APPROACHED to and when we choose to hold these white racist accountable, then we are “race baiting”, “playing the race card” and we are, “living in the past”. or won’t, “get over it”.
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George Ryder:
“I think this is a very profound statement”
Thanks…..
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jefe
We were discussing the idea of race as a social construct and he asked “what stops a person from identifying as the other?” Then he says “why not just put down Cuban or Dominican white etc.” It got me thinking along the lines of what makes us identify like we do? Do we have to give an answer to those questions? Do we have to mark what they want? Are we slaves to the social contruct called race? So I am considering taking his challenge and perhaps identify as I see fit and see what happens.
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[…] https://abagond.wordpress.com/2014/04/28/donald-sterling/ […]
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@Sharina,
What purpose is it serving? Are you trying to improve chances for housing, employment, education, government services, etc.?
Or are you multiracial and have a more fluid sense of racial identity?
Sure, you can mark down Inuit or Samoan, but what purpose is it serving you?
Actually, since we can mark anything we want, it kinda makes affirmative action rather moot. How can anyone challenge how you self identify? Can you be sued for misrepresentation?
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Sharina, the purpose of asking for racial identity is to track discrimination not to enforce it.
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Jefe,
“Actually, since we can mark anything we want, it kinda makes affirmative action rather moot. How can anyone challenge how you self identify? Can you be sued for misrepresentation?”
Reminds me of Elizabeth Warren who said she was Native American on a college app.
Maybe they can challenge it by how you self identify on everything else. Maybe it has to be consistent…idk. Maybe it isn’t based on self-identity.
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@Jefe
“What purpose is it serving? Are you trying to improve chances for housing, employment, education, government services, etc.?”–None of those.
I do have a multiracial background but none that would impact me seeing myself as black. I guess it is more of a curiosity thing. I mark what I mark as my race on documents, but with no clear understanding of the purpose or how and if it will impact us to identify as we choose.
Perhaps it was a ridiculous thought. *shrugs*
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@Solesearch
“Sharina, the purpose of asking for racial identity is to track discrimination not to enforce it.”—-Is this true for all documents? Some seem really unnecessary to even ask for racial identity.
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Magic Johnson gives back to the community and is generous. Sterling is talking out of his anal parts. He needs to have a stadium full of seats.
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When Sterling cried his fake tears and make his sorry fake apology (ROLLS EYES) And he had the nerve to bring up Magic’s HIV status, talk about deflating. That is a perfect example of a deflation arguement. He is just pathetic.
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“Solesearch” The government does have a racial and ethnic classification system. When the issue gets serious, when it has to do with actual material benefits, or the deprivation thereof, it will be applied.
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“Sharina, the purpose of asking for racial identity is to track discrimination not to enforce it.”
We can only hope. I had a friend whose father changed his name from Goldstein to something obscure because he’d already been through that routine where they look up the people they want to winnow out and can find them nice and easy. . . . Not going through that again.
He changed his name to his brother’s first name. His brother had been a doctor, ended up at one of the camps, at the end of the war the guards told everybody to leave, but he stayed behind to help the sick people. The next day they came in and shot everybody still there.
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@Sharina,
I think you have gone to the heart of some of the issues of racial classification in the USA and of multiracialism. That is why Tiger Woods’s decision not to identify himself as either black or Asian hit the sensibilities of many Americans (both black and white) and why the Hapa activist movement started in the late 80s and grew in the 90s. Its main platform can be summarized basically as an aversion to “tick the box”.
I would say that if you have no problem with ticking the box, then it would be pointless to play around with it just for fun (unless you had a purpose like a mentioned above). However, if you are of the position of having an aversion to ticking the box in the first place, that is another matter. I tried to avoid ticking it – to me it is insulting, requiring you to assume a racial identity to fit the needs of the institution asking you.
In the 1980s, I remember, it was chosen for me. I got assigned to a race by schools and universities, employers, landlords, the government. I had no choice in the matter.
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To Linda Cares Carter:
We can only hope. I had a friend whose father changed his name from Goldstein..
Having the name Goldstein in the US at the present could, under some circumstances, actually be somewhat of an advantage.
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To Jefe:
Sure, you can mark down Inuit or Samoan, but what purpose is it serving you? Actually, since we can mark anything we want, it kinda makes affirmative action rather moot. How can anyone challenge how you self identify? Can you be sued for misrepresentation?
There have been people fired from positions and expelled from Universities for falsely representing their ethnic background.. (Predominantly Whites..)
As for Elizabeth Warren although she may stated she is part Native American she supposedly never used that to her advantage for employment or admission to college.
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2012/05/11/1090857/-Records-Show-Elizabeth-Warren-Did-not-Claim-Minority-Status#
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To Jefe:
Sure, you can mark down Inuit or Samoan, but what purpose is it serving you? Actually, since we can mark anything we want, it kinda makes affirmative action rather moot. How can anyone challenge how you self identify? Can you be sued for misrepresentation?
http://www.suntimes.com/22480541-761/two-men-sentenced-to-federal-prison-for-minority-contracting-fraud.html
College admission and even a college degree can be revoked if it has been determined that a student committed fraud as part of the academic process which would include falsely stating ethnic background on the admissions form.
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Sharina,
“-Is this true for all documents? Some seem really unnecessary to even ask for racial identity.”
Which documents?
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@UM,
Those people from Germany and France ask why racial identity is such a big deal in the USA. You gave a couple examples why it is.
But, as Americans become more and more multiracial, and embrace the concept of having a multiracial identity, it will become more and more difficult to confirm whether someone falsely stated an ethnic or racial background. What might happen are more cases of where people switch their racial identity to give an advantage to different circumstances. How do you correct that? Force people to accept single racial identities on their govt issued ID cards? Other countries did that and it also failed.
I strongly suspect that, when the children born today reach old age in the 2090s, they will look back at these news reports and find it strange and anachronistic how they sound just as the articles we read from the 1890s, esp. the ones that dictated how to classify race.
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Jefe,
“But, as Americans become more and more multiracial, and embrace the concept of having a multiracial identity, it will become more and more difficult to confirm whether someone falsely stated an ethnic or racial background. What might happen are more cases of where people switch their racial identity to give an advantage to different circumstances. How do you correct that?”
Why would it be more difficult? Wouldn’t they correct for it the same way they correct for misrepresentation now?
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Segregation is still in the consciousness of people alive today, but we will see it fade out of active memory over the next 30 years.
1970s-1980s affirmative action will be out of active memory in 40-50 years.
Toddlers today will remember their grandparents telling them about segregation but will have no real understanding of it. They will tell their grandchildren that their grandparents told them about segregation. It would be like my grandparents telling me the stories from their grandparents about the civil war.
I am afraid that by the 2090s, they will migrate to a new system that is equally daft, but reflecting new social realities. Maybe by then same sex couples can have their own children and select genetic sequences for the offspring, making the transfer of “race” to the next generation a thing of the past. But they will have these other weird things that classify people.
It will be 100 years since “Birth of a Nation” next year. We should do a 100 report card.
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100 year report card
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@solesearch
Because we have moved somewhat away from “tick the box” over the past 15 years and become more multiracial, but still with high rates of racism and race preference systems.
Let’s say, for example, that a child is born to an 3/4 Asian 1/4 Caucasian Mother (the child of a Chinese mother and Japanese / white hapa father) and a biracial black / white father. Say, that their local school district is opening up a govt paid school program of Mandarin immersion, and they give preference to kids with Chinese ancestry (by holding slots open for them). The child competes for it and gets one of the slots for students with Chinese ancestry. But when he applies for university, he does not mark Asian, but marks “Black” for those universities that have black preference programs, and “white” for those that don’t, but are known to impose asian quotas.
What I am saying is that the kid might jockey his classification to serve his best interests. Now, the kid might have a definite and traceable close social and cultural relationship to both the black and white communities and not look that Asian (but ethnically ambiguous), but his learning of fluent Mandarin gives credibility to his Asian identity. Who could keep him from switching his racial identity? No one could say it was a case of misrepresentation.
And, people do switch racial identities over the course of their lives. We know of people that “passed” like Anatole Broyard.
How do you think Jason Momoa and Lisa Bonet’s kids will mark themselves when they grow up? I suspect that it is possible that 3 different siblings will have different jockeying strategies.
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Jefe,
“Who could keep him from switching his racial identity? No one could say it was a case of misrepresentation.”
The government could just like they do today. The government could say it’s misrepresentation. They( the American people or the school admin) set up the system so they make the rules not the applicant.
Maybe the rule would be to qualify as black you have to be half black or whatever.
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^ That means the ones who are 1/4 black, 1/4 white, 1/4 Indian, 1/4 Chinese would become a big fat NOTHING. Nobody could call Tiger Woods a racial traitor for calling himself Cablinasian as he wouldn’t qualify for anything else.
DNA testing would be disastrous. One sibling could register as 51% black and 27% white and qualify, but the one who tested 46% black and 30% white would fail, even if he looked more black to most people.
Well, there are many people jockeying their racial identity NOW (sometimes, not due to choice, but because they are forced to). Maybe one day it will be illegal.
It happens everywhere. Imagine in China – Han people were subject to the one child policy and minorities had no restriction. I am sure there must have been people jockeying ethnic assignment to avoid fines or jail.
But using any system to assign racial classification has always some very dehumanizing consequences – any time different rules apply to different racial / ethnic groups. They come up with ridiculous ways to assign and people will always feel compelled to jockey the assignment for their benefit.
Sorry, I really brought this off topic answering Sharina’s comment.
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Solesearch
My drivers license was one set of documentation where I felt it was just ridiculous to know my race. Now it may have changed because I only renew every 10 years. Medical records for doctor office visits is another but I am beginning to partial realize I maybe wrong in that regard.
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Jefe,
“^ That means the ones who are 1/4 black, 1/4 white, 1/4 Indian, 1/4 Chinese would become a big fat NOTHING. Nobody could call Tiger Woods a racial traitor for calling himself Cablinasian as he wouldn’t qualify for anything else.”
It doesn’t mean that. It means that person wouldn’t qualify for an anti discrimination policy or measurement aimed at people who are at least 50% black. It means you aren’t 50% black.
the ones who are 1/4 black, 1/4 white, 1/4 Indian, 1/4 Chinese would still be that.
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Sharina,
But if blacks make up 14% of drivers and 30% of highway stops wouldn’t you want to know? Or if politicians are pushing voter id laws and it’s shown that a disproportionate amount of Latinos don’t have driver’s licenses?
Or if it’s shown that blacks are more likely to be denied pain medicine or other treatments?
Racism is pervasive in America so tracking it has to be just as pervasive.
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jefe
“Sorry, I really brought this off topic answering Sharina’s comment.”—Even so you and solesearch actually managed to address somethings that have been bothering me for sometime.
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Jefe,
“But using any system to assign racial classification has always some very dehumanizing consequences – any time different rules apply to different racial / ethnic groups. They come up with ridiculous ways to assign and people will always feel compelled to jockey the assignment for their benefit.”
Racism is ridiculous so any measurement or remedy is going to be just as ridiculous.
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@solesearch,
It seems that the US govt has ordained blood quantum to be Native American whereas the registered Native American groups require registration with the tribal group, maybe less reliance on blood quantum.
But I grew up near a community of “tri-racial isolates” – they are mostly mixed black / white, with some trace of Native American, but many of them switched their classification to Native American to get recognized by the State.
Kamehameha school in Hawaii require blood quantum (maybe 1/8) Hawaiian to attend their school, but they have students who are blond haired blue eyed. Others could pass as Japanese or black. Now they registered as Native Hawaiian to go to that school and satisfied that requirement. What is stopping them from ticking Japanese, White or black on something else?
For example, I attended an event for Chinese-Americans that required Chinese ancestry to attend, but some of them went to Kamehameha school (and were also part Hawaiian).
I guess what you are saying is that they will redefine it all. They can redefine “black” as something other than self-defined, e.g.,
( 1 or more of the following)
– one or both parents identifying solely as black their entire lives (ie., not black with some other race)
– BOTH parents identifying as black with some other race
– birth in African country with evidence of ethnic membership in an African “tribe”
– Evidence for either or both parents of ethnic membership in a black African “tribe”
– DNA testing showing at least xx% of SSA ancestry
– one parent that is black with some other race, PLUS one of the following: 1) identified solely as black for the entire life; 2) identified as black with some other race for the entire life with other community evidence that one identifies as black (e.g., NAACP membership or membership in a black church) 3) proof of a spouse or children that identify as black.
Or something exceedingly complicated like that. Then we will have a messed up French or German born black who cannot prove any of that if they don’t have the record of “black” in those countries.
IS it right to remove the right to self-identify?
If we are saying that, then all those Asian mothers that told their mixed racial kids NOT to mark Asian to get into university (where they exercise maximum Asian quotas) will get screwed if Asian is defined as, say, 50% or more Asian. They will get their diplomas removed or their acceptance cancelled.
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Jefe,
“IS it right to remove the right to self-identify?
If we are saying that, then all those Asian mothers that told their mixed racial kids NOT to mark Asian to get into university (where they exercise maximum Asian quotas) will get screwed if Asian is defined as, say, 50% or more Asian. They will get their diplomas removed or their acceptance cancelled.”
Racism isn’t about self identity or individuals period. Those programs aren’t put into place to affirm how you self-identify. If there are a significant portion of blacks who are less than 50% black and are experiencing racism the same as people who are majority black then they should be included but the remedies and measurement need to be based on racism not self-identity.
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To measure racism, we also need to identify what group is being affected and who is the perpetrator. So, we have to assign people to the groups. How do we do this if it is not based on self-identity?
The USA already experimented with the one-drop rule for blacks and blood quantum rule for the rest. That is no longer applied, at least legally. If people are not assigned a race or ethnicity by the government (like what they do in other countries), then how do we track it? and how can we determine a case of misrepresentation?
I wonder how they are able to track it in places like France where people are not officially assigned racial identities. Surely there, no one can be accused of misrepresenting their race.
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Jefe,
“To measure racism, we also need to identify what group is being affected and who is the perpetrator. So, we have to assign people to the groups. How do we do this if it is not based on self-identity?”
Actual ancestry seems to be more reliable than self-identity because of the jockeying you mentioned. I remember a study that reported whites in the south were more likely to see a mixed race black person as black at a lower black admixture than northern whites. It also changed depending on if the person was identified as American or non-American. Studies also show dark skin blacks face more discrimination than light skin blacks.
I think racial tracking should match racist attitudes. Since it has no meaning outside of that.
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“You’re supposed to be a delicate white or delicate latina girl.”
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Here’s my opinion. He didn’t want to look like a cuck and quite likely there’s a hidden agenda to snatch his team away and Stiviano is part of the plot to ruin his reputation.
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@Solesearch
This is hardly a reliable method to assign race in the USA, esp. for the large multiracial population (which now is at least half the country via DNA). A person who is functioning social as white could very well have more African ancestry than someone functioning as black. A dark skinned black person could actually have less African ancestry than a lighter skinned person. Brothers and sisters with the same parents often assume different racial identities. Cultural, social and language factors may also influence one’s racial classification.
And many do not even know their actual ancestry, or many pieces of it. Are you suggesting that everyone get DNA tested to assign them to a race?
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http://www.cnn.com/2014/06/02/us/stiviano-assault-incident/index.html?hpt=hp_t2
“V. Stiviano assaulted in New York City, lawyer says”
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My own observation as my bi-racial children grew up was that our concept of what ‘race’ we are happens when we hit school age at five or six and it’s determined by what the other little kids think we are. I guess that would account for the maturity level often associated with these matters. It would also account for the sense of privilege that white children in segregated societies have, since they would grow up with a sense of just being a person, living their own life, which is what I feel is the essence of white privilege. Ironically, you definitely relinquish that when, in your personal life, you surround yourself with people of color.
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V. Stiviano punched in the face and called the N—– word by two drunk Whites. Just in case you missed it.
http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/nyc-crime/man-allegedly-punched-v-stiviano-questioned-article-1.1815322
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