Note: I do not live in Britain, so I am just throwing this out there for comment.
In 2013 “Britain no longer has a serious race problem. The trouble is isolation,” says The Economist, a white British news magazine well to the right.
[T]he country tends to look at race in the wrong way. These days, overt discrimination is not nearly as big a problem as isolation. This is true of blacks and Asians as much as whites.
It compares three poor communities, one white, one Pakistani, one Afro-Caribbean. They are ethnic ghettos cut off from the rest of society by cultures that discourage assimilation (for Pakistanis), ambition (for whites) or obedience (for blacks). For their respective ethnicities, however, they seem to be the exception rather than the rule.
Britain is “comfortably colour-blind” (rather than “comfortably numb”?):
On just about every reliable measure, Britain is exceedingly tolerant on race, and becoming ever more so.
“Exceedingly”! Opinion polls prove it! Oh, and “tolerant”!
And besides:
- Except for the Chinese, more blacks and Asians are marrying white.
- In the 1970s Britain made it illegal to discriminate on racial grounds in employment or housing.
- Since the 1980s the police have been under pressure to behave better.
- Hate speech is now a crime.
- Poor whites do worse at school than poor black and Asian students. (In Britain, Asian mainly means South Asian.)
- Unlike the rest of Europe, immigrants are less likely to drop out of school than natives.
- In 2011 the unemployment rate for immigrants was 8%, only a shade worse than the 7% for natives.
- Many in Britain hate immigration maybe because they are so racially tolerant that they expect immigrants to be given the same rights and opportunities as natives.
Pakistanis: In London “many have blended happily into British life” while in Bradford they are “mired in old ways” where clan culture is strong, where men rarely wear blue jeans or date white women. Racism and Islamophobia are not dead, yet it is mainly their culture that cuts them off.
Afro-Caribbean communities: “A culture persists down the generations” of opposing authority. It starts with boys challenging teachers, then the police. They form gangs. They riot from generation to generation. “It is exacerbated by racial discrimination, including among the police. … Still, overt discrimination is not nearly as bad as it once was.” Only some communities and families are like this, not all, and only males, not females. The issue is specific, not general.
Apparently these communities are screwed up mainly for reasons of their own “cultures”, not because of racism, white people or British institutions.
Some things The Economist does not tell you:
- Unemployment in April-June 2012:
- 7.3% White
- 9.0% Indian
- 11.6% Other
- 13.3% Chinese
- 13.5% Bangladeshi
- 15.5% Black
- 16.6% Pakistani
- 17.3% Mixed
- Police stop and search: In 2010-2011, blacks were seven times more likely to be stopped and searched than whites, Asians twice as likely. More than 90% of these lead to no arrest.
- Hate crimes: In 2010-2011, black adults were nine times more likely to be the victim of a hate crime than whites, Asians 18 times more.
Sources: The Economist, Institute of Race Relations.
See also:
- Racism in Britain
- colour blind racism: the four frames – how many does The Economist use?
- British, the
- The Economist
- King’s Dream at 50: A Report Card
- Grada Kilomba on racism in Europe
- Black France
- black ghetto – in America, at least, these do not drop out of the sky but are the creation of racist policies.
British people are some of these most obnoxious racist people I have ever encountered.
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Since I do not live in Great Britain, I hope the people who look like that do live there can confirm or deny this assertion.
Good Day
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Look like me that do live there*
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The very fact that the author doesn’t acknowledge that racism is a systemic issue that requires systemic solutions, and is still looking at intra-cultural explanations, shows exactly how much racism still is a problem in that society. Ironic that the very statements given as evidence, actually disprove the point. I also have no experience direct or indirect with British culture, but I’d at least get curious if the writer was saying, here are five major structural ways that racism has thrived in England in the past, and here are the ways government has worked tirelessly to dismantle these structures, with these specific results: and they’d be able to show better unemployment rates than the ones you found!!
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Ah the Brit version of “post-racial”. Noted.
I’m with Peanut, the criteria for deciding racial problems are a thing of the past speaks volumes.
We are the Borg. Your cultural uniqueness will be assimilated. Resistance is futile. Once that is complete, then there will be no more racial problems. And we can continue our pogrom of domination, racism and white supremacy unchecked.
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[…] “Britain no longer has a serious race problem.” | Abagond. […]
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@Peanut,
Great points but don’t forget blue jeans as they are ALWAYS a sign of racial progress too. Heh.
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The only other interesting thing about the excerpts Abagond posted from the usual Economist elitists slant is they let their class bias out as well and threw poor working class whites under the bus too by basically calling them living-on-the-dole-lazy-sods though they phrased it more politely (lack of ambition).
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he Economist, a white British news magazine well to the right.
“Well to the right” my azz. I read the economist and it’s high-brow neo-liberal. According to former editor Bill Emmott, “the Economist’s philosophy has always been liberal, not conservative”.
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I’m a Brit and I have not lived there since the mid-2000’s, but in the early 2000’s I was still living a life afraid of racist violence. I was also living in a town famous for its university and spotless image. As someone who is not only part white, but of East Asian descent, most people think of me as the last person to suffer racist attacks, but I did. I doubt much has changed. It’s just that now I have more limited travels to my home country, I am less likely to encounter it. No walking home, taking the bus or train after dark. People who used to vandalise my old home grew up and moved away from the house where my parents still live.
The thing is, the UK has no language to even discuss racism, hence the ridiculous colourblind ideology. All UK sites basically borrow US terminology apart from perhaps BME (Black and minority ethnic, which is meant to be the equivalent of POC). When racist jokes are abound in TV shows, there is no discussion. A minority will complain, but the perpetrators will always brush them off as overly sensitive politically correct people who follow the US too much. A snarl of disgust and derision as they spit that out.
There is a show in the US where people set up situations (many racist) with actors and show the public’s reaction. It’s many seasons long. The British equivalent only appeared either this year or last year and, naturally, despite a mixture of public response, their conclusion is that all British people are great and racism is practically over.
You do see many more interracial couples in the UK and people are not as eager to ask `Where are you from?’ if you share the same accent. On the surface, it really seems people don’t pay as much attention to your race as they do your nationality, but racism is still there, simmering beneath the surface. It’s just Brits are more likely to ignore it and pretend it doesn’t exist rather than to acknowledge it, confront it and try to resolve it.
Some comments on a few of the points they used to `prove’ racism isn’t a problem…
Making something illegal does not mean it never happens again. People will still find ways to discriminate, but use another reason as an excuse. You can change laws, but it will take far longer for society’s views to change.
We used to get people come round our house with weapons, threatening us and telling us to get out of `their country’, but could not call the police because they were very good friends with them. This continued between the late 90’s and early 2000’s. That pressure didn’t do much good, did it?
Bollocks! Just a year ago they were spouting off about how immigrants are coming and stealing all their jobs!
I hate the word `tolerance’. It implies they are putting up with something they dislike rather than truly accepting it. Seems more appropriate for saying `I’ll tolerate the cold and come visit you in Canada’ rather than `I’ll tolerate people of other races.’ That sounds really warm and welcoming, doesn’t it?
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Well pretty much everybody is “liberal” compared to the neo-Birchers you run with.
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Da Jokah,
Well pretty much everybody is “liberal” compared to the neo-Birchers you run with but your nit is besides the point.
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The Scots are the worst. And most violent*
That sweeping, wild generalization is made because it’s been my experience.
I don’t believe the UK is “more” delusional about racism than the US.
Can “delusion” be measured?
I just think the UK is better at hiding its racism. Because racism is supposed to be illegal there…
@ Iris, about racist jokes:
What I used to hear more than that was this phrase:
“political correctness gone mad”. Always used by people who didn’t know what political correctness was or how come it came to exist.
It’s like a trope. Supposedly the cynical opportunism of the “racism complaints industry”.
Discussions about that question or object to this banal and normalized racism is, instead — an attack on civil liberties!
I mean, where has good old British common sense gone!
Did we fight our wars to be censored by the Thought Police!
After all, a gollywog is just a harmless toy!
Now we can’t even call a blackboard a “Black” anything! and so on and so on and on….
*(Most of Scotland’s racist violence is directed at Asian Muslims and Poles.
http://news.stv.tv/scotland/227562-racism-on-the-increase-in-scotland/)
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Being ”colorblind” wouldn’t help racism. It fact, it puts a blind eye to racism and it’s effects on others.
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Interesting. I’ve only heard of the novel “The Bluest Eye” as written by Toni Morrison (and I have probably read it too — years ago anyway, as I no longer read novels).
I’ve never heard of Jane Elliot’s “Bluest Eye”.
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Hmmm. Why does all this sound awfully familiar?
Anyway, I was taught that being colorblind was a medical condition, not a term of endearment. And even if you are “colorblind” you can still see tones and shades.
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@Bulanik
“Because racism is supposed to be illegal there.”—I am quite glad you brought this up. I was not aware of this until I read that one of the misfit stars (Lauren Socha) had been arrested for racial assault. I thought it was some type of joke but nice to have someone confirm that it is not.
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Da Jokah
I’m sure you recognize that the US and the UK use the terms “liberal” and “conservative” differently, and that left and right have multiple dimensions and shifting meanings depending on the audience and context.
The Economist tends to veer neo-liberal on economics and neo-conservative on politics.
To many, advocating free markets is a position of the “right”, as is military interventionism.
However, one might also argue that such positions are on the left side of a philosophical Marxism-Traditionalism continuum, believing that exogenous forces (in this case the market) can wield supreme and immaculate transformative powers.
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I have to wonder that when people make statements such as “no longer has a serious race problem.” if they really just means “our blacks and non-whites are under control.”
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I tend to have a lot of British friends, most of them will swear up and down that America is screwed up with this race thing it just isn’t like that here. Then my British friends of colour will laugh and say to me colourblind as always, just means they can’t see what they disbelieve.
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Britain is definitely a racist country with many white folk either voting Bnp a racist political party or a watered down version of UKIP,to rid these immigrants which is the number one pet hate.
It may be the interracial country of the world but it means nothing in a country where minorities are seen as second class citizens.
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@Iris
The show you’re referring to might by “What would you do”.
One segment stuck out in my head. A white male and black male each enacted a bike theft. Here are the results
1. Everyone waking by questioned the Black male and accused him to stealing the bike.
2. Everyone left the white male alone.
Racism is implanted deep in our subconscious through media portrayals. In the example above, people have been conditioned to see Blacks are thieves and whites as a victim who is simply trying to unlock their bike.
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It’s interesting how you don’t mention the sharia regions, the no go zones, the grooming gangs and the rapes done mostly by south asian and north african muslims, and enforced by some imams. do I have to post a list of non white on white crims, a list of hate crimes on whites. Well I am not excusing the Brits, this is karma for them opressing people. I’m from a country the Brits hate, but let’s see the truth. the whole not just part of the truth as you see it. I have talked with south asian people and they were kinda proud of the fact that they were number 1 in crimes and rapes and one of them concluded with “yeah we’re fucking their white bitches”, although according to Daily Mail south Eastern europeans are now number 1 in crimes. So I’m just saying Abagond, get some glasses.
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The phrase “Britain no longer has a race serious race problem” is synonymous with “my best friend is Black” followed by the most racist comment ever. So yeah, I don’t believe that statement one bit.
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The irony is that the majority of the people commenting on this particular topic are, neither, “British, Have been to and/or Live in Britain whether it be England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland, Have ever met and/or spoken to any British minorities, that be people of Afro-Caribbean/South-Asian descent or know anything about the state of British socio-politics”.
Please… Until you go to ‘Great Britain’ and have actually experienced everything for yourself, you have no room for an opinion.
Ugh.
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@Teodor Constantin B
I invite you to post those crime stats as well as the list of crimes you can come up with. Then afterwards I was truly hoping you can explain how it proves or even disproves that “Britain no longer has a serious race problem.”
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@James
The irony of your comment is you missed (or just glossed over) comments made by Brit minorities referencing their own experience.
“have actually experienced everything for yourself, you have no room for an opinion.”—You don’t have to experience everything to give an opinion. The mere fact that you made a comment is evidence of that yet it boggles
me you feel no one else is entitled to one.
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@ James, why does it matter so much to you that non English/Scots/Welsh or N. Irish commenters share what they know, and express their thoughts and feelings about these nations?
No one in those countries ever feels they can NOT talk about Australia, Zimbabwe or Ireland, for example, do they? It makes no difference to them.
Is there something so special about Being British, or having Lived in Britain, which quarantines all discussion about it for The British Only?
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@Sharina
Click to access Statistics%20on%20Race%20and%20the%20CJS%202006.pdf
Offenders:
“Street crimes”: 54% black
Robbery: 59% black
Gun crimes: 67% black
Victims:
Gun Crime: 29% black
Knife crime: 24% black
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/7856787/Violent-inner-city-crime-the-figures-and-a-question-of-race.html
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1290047/Metropolitan-Police-crime-statistics-reveal-violent-criminals-black–victims.html
41% of black African, 36% of Bangladeshi and 35% of Indian people feel they have a say in decisions affecting Britain, compared to 19% of white people.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1043717/One-whites-claim-victims-racism.html
http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/4437163/1-in-5-rape-and-murder-suspects-in-England-and-Wales-are-migrant.html
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/1160552.stm
http://www.theguardian.com/uk/2006/oct/22/ukcrime.race
http://atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com/atlas_shrugs/2013/09/bbc-airs-shcoking-truth-muslim-men-grooming-raping-and-pimping-young-sikh-girls-.html
Here are some links with evidence, articles, statistics and videos of violence against whites in UK> What does it proves? It proves that the whites are no longer the oppressors but the opressed. Speakers, imams like Choudary and others encouraging crimes against non Muslims are walking undisturbed. Want to see some numbers and evidence of violence on whites in France too? I’ll show if you want. you guys only see wht you ant o see. You say whites must stop being racists but whites ara atacked in broad daylight, iin Uk, n USA by mobs, in knockout games, revenge for Trayvon, so and so forth. Poor black people, they are just frustrated, people should just love them instead and take it to the head. And it’s not just white Americans that are victims to black violence in USA, it’s also immigrants from Europe. And you know what, if you hate europeans and think all europeans are racist well then don’t come to Europe. I come from a country (Romania) that Britain is afraid of, even though we don’t make our own sharia neighbourhoods, we don’t create no go zones like they do in France and Britain we don’t rape women and teen girls on the streets just because they are no wearing hijab, and we don’t behead people on the streets. Even so we are hated, we are called beggers and thieves. I am tired to see how you people play the opressed minority card.
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@Teodor Constantin B
Don’t get your panties in a bunch. 🙂
Now if you will kindly refer to what it is I said….”how it proves or even disproves that “Britain no longer has a serious race problem?”
Notice that you are the only one mad and trying ( ever so hard) to put words in my mouth or better yet thoughts in my head? Anger is the response of a man who can’t prove his point (not that I believe you actually had one).
Now list of crimes against whites doesn’t mean that race is not a problem. It also does not mean that whites are oppressed as you tried to point out. So here is another question if you can handle it….What does it mean for one to be oppressed?
” I am tired to see how you people play the opressed minority card.”—As I have not played this oppressed minority card you speak of, I do find it interesting that you just played the whoa is me white card. 🙂
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aww abagond did it really have to go into moderation.
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Randy
I’m sure you recognize that the US and the UK use the terms “liberal” and “conservative”
I said The Economist was neo-liberal not liberal. Neither are conservative or “well to the right.”
The Economist tends to veer neo-liberal on economics and neo-conservative on politics.
Neo-liberal refers to economics not social policy. I notice you said “politics” rather than social policy. Was that a slip? Politically they’ve supported the Vietnam war as well as Iraq and Afghanstan. That may be considered a conservative position in the US but it was Blair’s Labor Party who pushed it in the UK. Moreover, they’d be considered to the left of the Democratic Party on just about every social issue from gay marriage to legalisation of drugs. They’ve even advocated atheism. I can think of no social policy they’ve supported that could be described as conservative, neo or otherwise.
To many, advocating free markets is a position of the “right”, as is military interventionism.
They don’t advocate “free markets”. They advocate international free trade. But in terms of domestic policy they advocate a social market economy. which is basically socialism lite.
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@Teodor Constantin B
Because my comment went into moderation I will take the time to atleast address some other points.
” You say whites must stop being racists but whites ara atacked in broad daylight, iin Uk, n USA by mobs, in knockout games, revenge for Trayvon, so and so forth.”—Oddly enough have yet to see these type of things happen and of news reports there have been few. Though I find it odd that whites such as yourself believe blacks should stop what frankly whites started. Do as I say not as I do I see.
“And you know what, if you hate europeans and think all europeans are racist well then don’t come to Europe.”—So do quote where it is I said anything about hating Europeans. I will give you time, but I am sure you will attempt the save face route instead of simply apologizing.
“I am tired to see how you people play the opressed minority card.”—I am tired of white play the look what you did to whites card (see your list of crimes), yet let a person of color play it and oh see how that big pot of hypocrisy works??? 🙂
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(cont)
And why is “military interventionism” a policy of the right? Because you say it is? Yes, if people are going to be logically consistent then it would be. But in practice, the left frequently supports military interventionism. The left has absolutely no problem killing and bombing the f-ck out of people… so long as it aligns with their leftist goals and beliefs
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This turned out to be a long long post about Britain and India. Sorry about that.
When you get a chance you should read the media portrayals of India in the British media. It is nothing but racist tripe, even through India is the second (or third) largest investor in Britain, despite the loot and the plunder of India by the brits.
The last racist outburst was when India launched a satellite to Mars, the Brits do not have a space program and this causes tremendous amount of heart burn for some. Especially since brit give a paltry amount of 50 million pounds for “development” projects in India (which are then re-invested in British company, ofcourse every pound comes with two brits with return tickets to do “social service”).
Keep in mind that India is a 2 trillion dollar economy. The brit media is filled with condescending advice on how we should spend on poverty alleviation instead, as if they know how to rule us better than us ourselves. Then we get reminded of the contributions the brits made to India, which are mostly manufactured by apologists of colonialism. India got English (i.e. uncle Roms), Railways (to transport Brit loot), Unification (done by our founding fathers and not the brits). For this false help, we are supposed to feel grateful and listen to our former invaders.
These people forget history:
The brits used Indian indentured labor and taxing cotton farmers heavily back in the early 1800s to compete with cotton production in the rest of the world, which inturn caused the American south to surpass the brits in their barbarity and use slaves to pick cotton. Thus Britain indirectly has a hand in the US slavery.
Britain is also responsible for the 31 odd famines (as outlined in the books: Late Victorian Holocaust, and Churchill’s secret war). These famines caused at least 15 million deaths with some claiming upto 30 million deaths. The last one was a deliberate one due to Churchill. Churchill is a white man’s hero. He has the blood of 4 million Indians in his hands. Compared to Hitler, Churchill’s Britain, Victoria the mass murdering queen are much much worse for Indians. Just like the mass murderer Leopold of Belgium was to the people of Congo (> 10 million dead there).
Then the partition of India. Which was as random as it could get. it was a ploy to create a bulwark against Russia by buying out Jinnah, the father of Pakistan (Jinnah himself was willing to be sold out to the highest bidder as outlined by this interview with him: http://iref.homestead.com/Messiah.html). Pakistan was supposed to continue the great game played by British and the Russians in Afghanistan. The Pakistanis have dutifully fulfilled that promise, and now are a headache to the world by being one of the biggest exporters of terrorism.
In 1947 we were given our independence (reluctantly and under constant pressure from the USA and also due to the Royal Indian Naval, or RIN, Mutiny and to a small extent the Gandhi peace movement). By that time the brits had played one religion against the other, ossified and stratified castes by controlling economic opportunity available to each castes (the castes were much more fluid before the Brits stepped into India). The hatred between castes and religion continues to this day.
There were a lot of brown Indians who got rich of this scheme, Jinnah was one of them. He fanned the Muslim flames and it resulted in communal violence, which then ended up in a chain reaction (Direct action day: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Direct_Action_Day ). When freedom came along, Jinnah was so averse to live along side Hindus that he wanted a separate Islamic nation. This coupled with the haste that the Brits wanted to leave India caused a lot of bloodshed as seen in these photos:
http://greatgameindia.wordpress.com/2013/08/15/rare-photos-of-partition-of-india-1947/
People got a few weeks notice of where the line was going to be drawn while the hatred was at the peak. The borders were drawn (by the Brits) quite randomly (some passed through villages), and those places ended up in mass bloodshed. Of course, us Indians had a lot of blame for it. But the seeds of it were sown way back by the Brits (much like how they created the Tutsi and Hutu people out of thin air).
For all this, they claim Indians should be grateful for the Brits. I just shake my head and move on.
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I have to make a correction. I failed to even look at the articles and of those I did see….they mention blacks being twice as likely to be the victim. hmmm. I will read the rest and comment later.
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Sharina
Though I find it odd that whites such as yourself believe blacks should stop what frankly whites started.
You’re using a “which came first — chicken or the egg?” argument to justify racial attacks against innocent people. Not only is your claim immoral it’s also factually incorrect.
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Da Jokah:
You’re using a “which came first — chicken or the egg?” argument to justify racial attacks against innocent people. Not only is your claim immoral it’s also factually incorrect.
I dont see that Sharina is justifying racial attacks against innocent people. Also, if you believe that she lacks a moral compass, why bother to engage in discourse with her?
History has told us which came first so, no point getting your panties in a scrunch but, just out of interest, what do YOU think about racist attacks against innocent people?
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LMAO
Randy and Da Jokah could be one and the same person to me
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@Da Jokah
Your trying too hard dear. 🙂
“argument to justify racial attacks against innocent people.” —I’m not justifying anything and if I wanted to I have much more elaborate ways of doing so. As far as innocent people I am going to ask for proof that you know said people to be innocent.
“Not only is your claim immoral it’s also factually incorrect.”—And you know it to be incorrect how?
Here is some advice. Just because you think you have an “i gotcha moment” doesn’t mean you do. Keep up with our conversation know what is going on and then attempt a response that makes you look less desperate. 🙂
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@ Teodor Constantin B
I have taken the time to look over your articles and I must say that I am disappointed that you decided to be deceitful.
In the first article you presented it went basically nowhere useful. The next two indicate that while blacks commit a high amount of crime they are also the ones being victimized. Considering what you were presenting I was expecting this large amount of white victims (my bad in assuming before reading).
The next article was indeed interesting and it was a nice twist for you to take a half truth from it. Here is the actually wording on what was said in the article: “For example, 41 per cent of black African, 36 per cent of Bangladeshi and 35 per cent of Indian people feel they have a say in decisions affecting Britain, compared to 19 per cent of white people.” This is an indication of how these individual feel. It is not an indications of what actually is happening.
The next article deals with Asian particularly of Pakistani and Bangladeshi origin. Here is an interesting quote from the article. “He said such attacks and those committed by white men against Asians were part of a long running problem in the area.” Tells me not only Asians need to work on something but whites as well.
Another article indicates that nearly half victims of racially motived crimes were white. Here is the kicker “”between 1995 and 2004 there have been 58 murders where the police consider a racial element played a key part.” So of these 58 the article mentions what element made it a racial one? Now to break down the 58. 10 were black, 16 were Asian, and the remainder white. Even more interesting is that the article states “Police have suggested that some white-on-white killings may be a result of attacks between Scots, English, Irish and Welsh people.”
Of the remaining links to discuss one was a video and the other was an article that requires you paying 1 pound to see the full article.
You are free to counter, but you just shot yourself in the foot with a lack of credibility.
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“@Teodor Constantin B,
come from a country (Romania) that Britain is afraid of, even though we don’t make our own sharia neighbourhoods, we don’t create no go zones like they do in France and Britain we don’t rape women and teen girls on the streets just because they are no wearing hijab, and we don’t behead people on the streets.
You say whites must stop being racists but whites ara atacked in broad daylight, iin Uk, n USA by mobs, in knockout games, revenge for Trayvon, so and so forth. Poor black people, they are just frustrated, people should just love them instead and take it to the head. And it’s not just white Americans that are victims to black violence in USA, it’s also immigrants from Europe.
”
Linda says,
Being that I had lived and have relatives in London, I find these sentiments to be — FASCINATING coming from this particular commenter…I guess the National Front has changed their acceptance policies to up the numbers
Abagond, I ask you to please verify where this commenter is located because I find it “fascinating” that a ROMANIAN is willing to DEFEND western Europeans and their mindset–
A Romanian, from a former communist country, that white Europeans spit on, a looked down-upon, almost “reviled” people — that east and central Europeans, like Slovaks, treat like sh’t —
I know most “white” Romanians (the “slavs” who are not Gypsies) don’t want to be associated with the people who got their name from that country — the Roma (aka Gypsies) –but unfortunately, white Romanians can’t escape the hate and they suffer from the same stereotype as do their countrymen, the hated Roma – so to see that this Romanian
is willing to come to this blog to talk about “knock out” games in the UK — and violence perpetuated by black and brown British citizens — and other crimes which are similar to the what white American racists complain about and actually DEFEND white British people (mind boggling)
and this “Romanian” thinks black and brown people are a “problem” in the UK –thinks they behave “exactly” like black Americans…..and supports the British rally cry –“Britian for the British”
just Fascinating, Abagond 🙂
I wonder if he believes that the rally cry extends to him — I wonder if he believes the white British would want his Romanian self to stay in the UK if all the “trouble-making and low budget” immigrants were to be kicked out “on mass”
“Too late for UK to stop Romanians and Bulgarians immigration influx’”
“The next immigration challenge the British face is dealing with Romanian and Bulgarian immigrants, who can easily migrate to the country next year after restrictions are lifted on these two EU members, who joined the union in 2007.
Once the restrictions are lifted all new comers will entitled to claim benefits, housing, child, job seekers etc. There is currently an estimated 1.5 million people seeking work within the two countries”
Bordering on racism, Bulgarians and Romanians keep asking, “how are we worse immigrants for the UK than people who come from Africa, South Asia, etc.?”
http://rt.com/op-edge/woolwich-uk-anti-muslim-417/
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Teodor
I come from a country (Romania) that Britain is afraid of, even though we don’t make our own sharia neighbourhoods, we don’t create no go zones like they do in France and Britain we don’t rape women and teen girls on the streets just because they are no wearing hijab, and we don’t behead people on the streets. Even so we are hated, we are called beggers and thieves. I am tired to see how you people play the opressed minority card.
Is this your personal experience? Behead people – WTF? How long have you lived in the UK? Do you understand/know/appreciate, how much cr@p black people/asian people/other minorities had to put up with and for how long? Do you know what STILL goes on?
The things that you have put up here about minorities I have heard a dozen other stereotypes about Eastern Europeans too. I wish I could find it but, only the other day, the news showed some footage about a certain part of the U.K which was populated by Romanians which was likened to a ‘ghetto’ with gangs. I really would re-consider taking the same stance as the British – unfortunately, the loyalty is not reciprocated. My bosses wife went to France a couple of weekends ago and he relayed to me his wifes distaste at the drunken beggars of people that she said were Eastern European and, the shameless way that they use their children to beg for money – though he went on to say ‘scam’ money from innocent people by using nieces/nephews/friends babies to get sympathy.
41% of black African, 36% of Bangladeshi and 35% of Indian people feel they have a say in decisions affecting Britain, compared to 19% of white people.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1043717/One-whites-claim-victims-racism.html
When you try to maintain a democratic society, it is likely that someone will always feel marginalised. When you start ‘enabling’ people who have been oppressed or that have always been presented as being inferior, to have a voice and an opinion, those who by default, because of their race, have been in a position of power, will start to feel aggrieved – even when none of their personal privilege and rights are being affected. And lets face it, no one insists that black people/asian people or whomever are employed over whites, it is simply stated that in the interests of ‘fairness’ and ‘equality’ that this SHOULD happen. The same with ‘letting’ property to people who are non-white. Those people preaching this ‘fairness’ are usually the ones that don’t have to live amongst the end result of this and this causes friction amongst the rich and the poorer too the latter who are railing and reeling about their ‘human rights’ when in actual fact, they are experiencing a little bit of what it feels like to not be in a pivotal position of power. The underclass – just like any minority who has settled in the U.K over the last 50 years.
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And lets face it, no one insists that black people/asian people or whomever are employed over whites, it is simply stated that in the interests of ‘fairness’ and ‘equality’ that this SHOULD happen
Sh!t – should say ‘And lets face it, no one insists that black people/asian people or whomever are employed over whites, it is simply stated that in the interests of ‘fairness’ and ‘equality’ that this SHOULD have the SAME opportunities as whites but sometimes, so called postive discrimination can be used against you if you complete application forms where employers are privy to your personal details during the selection process for example.
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eh blah blah so what does conservative mean, back to the slave days like?
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cus a liberal union card carrying democratic voting liberal police officer will shoot you dead in the usa too so you tell me what then
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Sharina
I’m not justifying anything and if I wanted to I have much more elaborate ways of doing so. As far as innocent people I am going to ask for proof that you know said people to be innocent.
Are you saying victims of violent racial attacks have to prove their innocent? That’s a new twist on blaming the victim. Should every victim have to prove they’re innocence before their attacker is charged?
And you know it to be incorrect how?
I’m not into ‘collective guilt’. That’s your sin not mine. So let’s start with your comment. You said “whites started” it. What did whites start? And when?
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Da Jokah
Not sure why but my other comment is still pending but to add to a question I asked
History has told us which came first so, no point getting your panties in a scrunch but, just out of interest, what do YOU think about racist attacks against innocent people?
Do you believe that black people have been/can be innocent were the subject of racist attacks are concerned?
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Abagond – why are my comment in moderation?
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@Da Jokah
“Are you saying victims of violent racial attacks have to prove their innocent?”—Nope, but you made the claim that they were, so I thought you would spend your time proving such instead of cheap tricks.
“That’s a new twist on blaming the victim.”—You should consider waiting on a response before making a response for me. I would hate for you to find yourself in the position of mind reading or putting words in ones mouth.
“Should every victim have to prove they’re innocence before their attacker is charged?”—Deflection? Really? So please point to where I made this statement or gave you the idea that I meant that. (fyi it would be much easier if you asked me what I meant by my statement).
“I’m not into ‘collective guilt’. That’s your sin not mine. So let’s start with your comment. You said “whites started” it. What did whites start? And when?”– Not my sin but rather what you have painted as my sin. 🙂 Well your questions would greatly be answered had you actually read my whole post now wouldn’t it?
Here is an interesting fact. When I made that statement I thought “oh man someone will take it the wrong way and I should explain.” Then I decided not to because I actually wanted to see what clown would take the opportunity to jump on it like a dog in heat. Low and behold. Now because I am not into doing people work I will let you get to researching what it is I said and figuring out what I meant and if I feel up to it then I will explain. 🙂
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Sharina, why do you care what Da Jokah thinks– he is a joke!
his sole purpose on this blog is to just “exist”, that’s why his statements are inane and don’t bring any substance to the topics..
he mouths rhetoric from the race realist journal disguised as “debate”– he doesn’t care about what you personally think nor does he aim to be unbiased, he just wants you to agree with him and admit that black people suck!
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@Linda
Personally I like messing with his head. I like how most of the time he thinks he is “ahead” of everyone.
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Then again I also like being an azz to him because frankly he is an azz to everyone else.
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@Omnipresent
I am wondering where this concern of his was when all those new reports were circulating blame the black victims.
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Sharina
Your meaning was very clear. You believe in collective guilt and think racial attacks against innocent people are justified because “whites started” it. Now you’re sputtering like a worn out lawnmower trying to splain it. You should probably take Linda’s advice and shut your pie hole. 🙂
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Sharina:
I am wondering where this concern of his was when all those new reports were circulating blame the black victims.
Yes, me too. I have to agree with Linda but say further that it seems he is just hoping beyond hope that the commenters on here will confirm his worst fears.
Spending such a huge amount of time, almost like a hobby or pastime, sourcing articles that focus on race and crime in this way is odd. Really odd.
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@Da Jokah
How is it I knew you were going to play the “I know what you meant card?” So predictable and still so wrong. It’s ok. I won’t hold this attempt to save face against you. 🙂
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Brothawolf
Almost 90% of your comments are based on only one subject, black-on-white crime, and nothing else.
That’s not true. I’ve only recently discussed black-on-white crime after TrojanPam challenged me on another post. The discussion moved to the Open Thread where you’ve been an eager participant. I’d be more than happy to discuss other topics.
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Oops! Wrong post.
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@Omnipresent
I agree.
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Sharina
Denial is an excellent strategy for you to deflect from your indefensible comments. You can continue to waste my time with your gross ignorance until I get bored. It reminds me of an episode of COPs I saw a few years ago. The cameras caught a black kid stealing a scooter. The cops follow him back to his apartment in a hilarious slow speed chase. He jumps off the scooter and runs inside one of the apartments. The door barely closes before it opens back up and some morbidly obese black woman charges out bellowing, “He didn’t steal it! He didn’t steal it! He was here the whole time!” Yet the whole thing from start to finish was caught on dash cam. I appreciate your demonstrating what people have come to expect.
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@Omnipresent
I will say this. I just about p*ssed my pants laughing seeing how quick he was to run away from the conversation when it required him to think and figure it out. LOL
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@Da Jokah
Are you going to deflect or are you going to address? So far you have done nothing but claim you know what I meant and then go on to explain or talk about a bunch of irrelevant things. The irrelevant part is piling up. 🙂
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@Da Jokah
I know you actually don’t know what I meant by my statement and you are thus on the bluff path in efforts to make yourself look less asinine. I guess you are hoping I will break and start explain what I meant by it but then what is the fun in figuring it out yourself. 🙂
And while we are talking on ignorance, how ignorant is it to be arguing with me about what you think I meant? 🙂
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I was only there for like two weeks I was a tourist. So, I can’t really contribute much, But I did see lots of IRR couples, Asian men paired with black women, that was unusual to me. Lots of other pairings of other ethnicities. I don’t doubt for a second that racism isn’t alive and well there. I know I am not saying anything folks don’t know already, but racism is prevalent all over the globe. This world system was not created to accommodate black people, this is just my opinion.
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I appreciate your demonstrating what people have come to expect.
And there we have it Sharina. He revels in seeking out things that will confirm the racist stereotypes he holds.
I will say this. I just about p*ssed my pants laughing seeing how quick he was to run away from the conversation when it required him to think and figure it out. LOL
I suspect that this will be turned around in some weird way once again to ‘prove’ all that he believes.
Honestly, this is the kind of individual who joins a cult or, back in the day, one of the proponents of burning witches.
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Anywho, Britain sounds a lot like Canada when it comes to race.
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@ Mary
thank you for sharing. I was not aware that other countries dealt with racism like the USA, but in that I am wrong.
@Omnipresent
I have noticed he has been doing a lot of projecting as of late. In the past I have watched other trolls meet this stage, but not long after that end up banned because they go into a fit of rage.
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and Omnipresent part of the reason it lead up to them going into fits is because hey held so tight to what they believed to be true that when faced with the actual truth of it they could not take it.
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@ Linda
His IP address comes from Romania.
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@ Herneith: Comment deleted for insulting language.
https://abagond.wordpress.com/comment-policy/
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Da Jokah
That’s not true. I’ve only recently discussed black-on-white crime after TrojanPam challenged me on another post. The discussion moved to the Open Thread where you’ve been an eager participant. I’d be more than happy to discuss other topics.
And you’ve been on the topic ever since lol. 🙂
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Hmm.
OK, I can see how my comment might be taken that way.
My apologies to you, Legion.
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Man, what a big discussion.
@Kiwi, you shut up and dont judge us cause youd ont know us. Romanians have been subjected to 400 years of persecution in our lands coming from Turks, Germans and russians and we still are treated like shit by whites and other minorities alike kissng up to the dirty white westerners.
Maybe I exxagerated, maybe the articles were not entirely right. every time, whining about opression an discrimination. I’m not saing that blacks were not opressed in Uk, France, whatever, they were, but now, I dont think so. Also if you look in the press, you will find hateful articles about Romanians and bulgarians, albanians and people have experienced hate not only from Britishers and French, but also from minorities like North Africans calling us gypsy thieves and beggars exactly like the natives do, also in UK, Indians treating us exactly like white Britisher. So I’m not buying in the european opresses non european. It did happen in the past, now I dont think so. We are more persecuted, there were signs in Italy restaurants saying” not allowed to dogs and romanians”. You are very eager to cry racism but when it’s about other minority you team up with the native. White privilege, Kiwi are you mad? we’re not even seen by Wetserners as white or European. And I am not sticking up for Westerners or defend them, I don’t care about them.I am just saying that this opressed minority sounds like a sport, people seeing racism everywhere, when in fact those minorities turn to racism themselves. If I offended someone, I am sorry, I just think some people take it to the extreme
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@ Kiwi, Linda
Re: the attitudes of our Romanian commenter is as Kiwi says:
That’s why Teodor Constantin B is trying so hard.
But if Teodor thinks that he will “blend” right in, he has another thing coming. He thinks he’s safe behind his white skin, does he! Ha. He better be careful to mind his mouth, because not everyone who is white and British will take him up as their also-white brother: he’s a foreigner with a funny accent, and no amount of sucking up will change that.
He can say Romania is like Italy but only a bit more East — it’s not going to matter: Romanians are still seen as major contributors to crime and are perceived as fraudsters and pimps. After all, Romania is a European country that’s run by criminals and bribery (what they call “spaga”).
Corruption is nothing new in Europe — but Romania are so bad even the EU think so! The perception is that the Balkan countries are “Third World” countries, barely white, but trying…
Romania is just a 55 minute airplane journey from Istanbul, Turkey, and Turkey has been trying for years and years to get into the EU, and it’s still not happening. Turkey used to rule Romania during the Ottoman Empire.
Perhaps Teodor and those that think like him believe that makes the Romanians “privileged” and better than their former Ottoman masters?
The Romanians will have full EU right as of 31 December 2013.
Right now, the average wages in Romania are about one 5th of what they are in Britain. This means that if a Romanian comes to England, lives like a pauper for 5 years, and saves hard, he can go back to Bucharest with enough for a decent home and a viable little business — and all he had to do was stack shelves in ASDA or Primark (English shop chains) during that time!
Not too bad. Easy money. And even if you are on Welfare Benefits, if you’re smart and work the System, you might still be able to send back enough every month to the extended family at home.
Better than sleeping rough on the park bench in Paris…
Better than the gloom, neglect and decay of their Romanian lives, eating brains for dinner again, watching all that prosperity on the telly whilst you pass so many beggars on their own crumbling streets.
Romania is still a country where you see cart and horse going along the streets next to beaten up Dacias (Dacia is Romania’s car manufacturer). But as a country it IS getting its act together. It’s known for having good medical colleges and I know 2 young women who wish to study Medicine in Craiova because the yearly rates are so cheap.
However, for many, many young people in Romania, they are itching to come away and improve their lot. What Teodor Constantin shows is the mindset of the potential immigrant who intends to use whiteness as his trampolin when he gets out of Romania…
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@Bulanik
” What Teodor Constantin shows is the mindset of the potential immigrant who intends to use whiteness as his trampolin when he gets out of Romania…”—Then it seems be would be more successful in American. LOL
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Hahaha, I’m just having so much fun. FYI I don’tintent to immigrate in Uk, since I find it boring or in USA since I find Americans horribly hypocritic and soulless capitalists..
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Perhaps you only found the UK “boring” after you found out that you couldn’t afford to live there or, get the Welfare Benefits you mistakenly thought you could squeeze out…like the other Romanians and Bulgarians who, after awhile, scuttled back home, tail between their legs, complaining about “capitalism”…
😀
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@Teodor Constantin B
“Hahaha, I’m just having so much fun.”–I find that people usually makes statements like this (instead of addressing their claims) when they know they have been caught. But rest assured that I find nothing more funny than watching grown men weasel their way out of things like the snakes they are.
‘I find Americans horribly hypocritic and soulless capitalists.”—Something we agree on yet oddly enough your comments above indicate that you would fit perfectly in line with them.
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That said…Unfortunately the fear and dislike (?) the British public may have about the prospect of a Romanian “crime invasion” has been promoted in part by some sectors of the British government and its police force.
“Unfortunately” because the press and one particular political party (Ukip) have what they will do when they enter UK borders in numbers. Little mention is made of the educated and skilled people from Romania who pay their taxes into the UK’s Revenue, or how important Romania — a large country with many natural resources — could be in the EU’s future relationship with the former Soviet Union.
The prospect of a Romanian crime invasion in the UK:
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9DzJewhtbDI)
This scare-mongering pattern has underlined previous immigration — the usual phrases “we’re being swamped”, “they’re taking our jobs”, “they’re sponging off our system” have been used over and over for generations, and not just in the UK. I was an immigrant on the receiving end, and that has been so for many 1000s of immigrants throughout the UK’s past, so the UK is full of immigrants with that experience. That’s something Teodor Constantin seems to have missed by hopping onto the whiteness gravy-train.
There’s no doubt that a campaign that has been waged against Bulgarians and Romanians because the UK is experiencing a recession; much talk is about these 2 countries being so poor. It almost amounts to a “racial attack” because it paints the 2 countries as somehow being more corrupt and utterly “other”: Balkan, Communistic, the place where Dracula came from. All that.
This is unlike say, the way the Poles have been treated. The Poles have a stronger historical connection to the UK. The image and experiences of the Poles in the UK have been generally less negative, perhaps because there’s a cultural debt (from WW2) to the Poles and a connection that the Romanians and Bulgarians don’t have with the UK, so there is no sense of “responsibility” that needs to be shown to them…
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^^ comment in moderation.
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Dang Bulanik. You are hitting the moderation button today. lol
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😀 Sharina, I must be that kinda gal!! Lol.
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I’m pretty sure there are Brits who thinks Aparteid was justified for white people as being better.
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@kingoftrouble
“I tend to have a lot of British friends, most of them will swear up and down that America is screwed up with this race thing it just isn’t like that here…”
It’s almost laughable to think that Britons, who exported their racist views around the world for centuries, now think they’re in any position to lecture America, its former colony, about morality. That’s like Germans calling Namibians genocidal.
@ James
I’ve lived in and have visited Britain many times (much to my chagrin), and am in a position to give an opinion on this point.
@ Teodor Constantin B
FIrst, note that the stats you mentioned just concern London, not Britain-wide. If you pull up the national data, you’ll find that 73.2% of all convicted Britons are white.
Second, note what the article you linked states:
“These ones do not show that 54 per cent of London’s street crimes are committed by black men…They do not even show that 54 per of those convicted in court of street crime are black men. But they do indicate that in 54 per cent of street crimes WHERE POLICE CATCH THEIR SUSPECT, that suspect is black…Many of the victims of street crime are black: twice as high a proportion of the total victims, according to the Met’s figures…”
It’s the same in America. Police suspect blacks more, target them at a much higher rate.
The problem is just how many criminals police are missing b/c of their obvious racial bias?
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obedience (for blacks).
Afro-Caribbean communities: “A culture persists down the generations” of opposing authority. It starts with boys challenging teachers, then the police. They form gangs.
………………………….
I can’t believe he wrote this statement and yet he says Britain doesn’t have a problem with race. Recently a Black woman named Alesha Dixon was made a judge on our version of “Dancing with the stars,” it was one of the first times a Black Brit had been on prime time television on ears. We literally only have a hand full. Check out the Stephen Lawrence case (he’s our Rodney King) but he was actually killed.
Britain is more polite, but race is a very real problem in the UK.
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+ And there are just as many White gangs as there are Black, especially in areas like Manchester, where it is predominantly White. You can check out the coverage on the riots a few years ago, it wasn’t just Black gangs, there were huge uprisings from White gangs in areas like Manchester, too.
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Racism is alive and kicking in the U.K. It’s mostly closet racism (some whites still call black people “Darkies”) There is a thriving anti black community over here even asians are predjidice abainst blacks,so don’t be fooled that the U.K. is honey and roses.
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@ Dave Enamu
It IS mostly closet racism…I’ve heard black men being called “jungle bunnies” by white people (always women) more times than I wish to stomach. These individuals didn’t think I was “one of them”, so they used those words in front of me because they thought I might not mind…
I used to also notice the friction between Nigerians and (Afro) Jamaicans, as well. I won’t go into the intra-ethnic rivalries and hatred between different clan and national groups from the African continent, or the ones among Indian sub-continentals…
Yes, without a doubt, some Asians ARE prejudiced against blacks.
Seen it, and heard it in all its repugnance!
But Dave, how haven’t you noticed that some blacks are rather prejudiced against Asians…? I’ve seen that, haven’t you?
Remember Paki-bashing? I hope you aren’t suggesting that was only a white person’s sport?
One didn’t even have to be Pakistani to get bashed.
Any person of recent South Asian descent could be “christened” with that violence, bullying, etc.
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@Lokee:
Your comment wasn’t a post about “India and Britain”, it was more of rant against Pakistan and Jinnah, you seem to hate Jinnah and Pakistan and blame all of India’s problems on it.
I don’t get how your post is relevant to this blog, or any of the comments on here, you just found a chance to post your hate for Pakistan and Jinnah that you were indoctrinated with in India, you actually sound a lot like a Hindutva, somebody that would vote for a fascist like Modi.
“Then the partition of India. Which was as random as it could get. it was a ploy to create a bulwark against Russia by buying out Jinnah, the father of Pakistan (Jinnah himself was willing to be sold out to the highest bidder as outlined by this interview with him: http://iref.homestead.com/Messiah.html). Pakistan was supposed to continue the great game played by British and the Russians in Afghanistan. The Pakistanis have dutifully fulfilled that promise, and now are a headache to the world by being one of the biggest exporters of terrorism.”
The idea of Pakistan was conceived by Allama Iqbal, Jinnah was the man that led the creation of Pakistan but he didn’t concieve the idea, and Pakistan was created as a homeland for Muslims in the Subcontinent, it wasn’t created to play the “great game”, it was created as a puppet state for Britain.
India’s first Governor-General was a Brit, Lord Mountbatten whereas as Pakistan’s first Governor-General was Jinnah, so India was more of a British puppet than Pakistan.
You claim that Pakistan is “greatest exporter of terrorism” in the world, what evidence do you have of that?Were Pakistanis responsible for Boston,Westgate,Woolwich,9/11,Bali,OKC,Norway massacre,the Tamil Tigers,Samjotha express bombings,Gujarat massacre, abortion clinic bombings?I could go on and on, you statement is very similar what most western journalists say about Pakistan, they love to blame it for all of it’s problems yet ignore all of their crimes.
I know Pakistan has supported “militants” in Afghanistan for it’s interests, but that’s no different than what most countries do, in fact most of the western countries have supported terrorists and oppressive regimes around the world, and India also has blood on it’s hands for creating the Tamil Tigers,for it’s involvement in the Nepalese war, it’s support of the Mukhti Bahini,Samjhota express bombings,Sarabjhit Singh and the RSS, I could go on and on but you will never see the mainstream media talk about that, they tend to be pro-India and anti-Pakistan.
“The last racist outburst was when India launched a satellite to Mars, the Brits do not have a space program and this causes tremendous amount of heart burn for some. ”
I would agree with the Brits, India didn’t need a space mission when they have more 700 million people living in poverty, I mean could they have invested in a space program 50 years from now, but it was too soon.
“Then we get reminded of the contributions the brits made to India, which are mostly manufactured by apologists of colonialism. India got English (i.e. uncle Roms), Railways (to transport Brit loot), Unification (done by our founding fathers and not the brits). ”
Well the Indians chose to make English their official language, I’ve heard many in the South of India don’t like speaking Hindi, they prefer to speak in English instead of Hindi because they would rather have a “white man’s” language as their lingua franca than an indigenous language like Hindi.
I don’t really like Brits for all the atrocities they committed around the world and I hate colonial apologists, but you gotta give the Brits credit for unifying India because before they came India didn’t really exist, it was just a geographic term not a nation, it was divided in over 500 princely states of which many had almost nothing in common, but now it’s one big country thanks to Britain.
“There were a lot of brown Indians who got rich of this scheme, Jinnah was one of them. He fanned the Muslim flames and it resulted in communal violence, which then ended up in a chain reaction (Direct action day: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Direct_Action_Day ). When freedom came along, Jinnah was so averse to live along side Hindus that he wanted a separate Islamic nation.”
You need to stop blaming Jinnah for everything wrong that happened before ,during and after partition, many of the Hindutvas hated Muslims and they made big portion of India’s population, and that contributed to the communal tensions, you can’t blame one side for all the problems.
Jinnah wasn’t the only leader for South Asian Muslims, there were many, and the reason why the Muslim League wanted a separate homeland for Muslims was actually because Muslims and Hindus didn’t get along with eachother at all, the tensions were really bad, many of the Hindutvas didn’t like being ruled by Muslims for a 1000 years, and after independence they were going to get back at Muslims, the fear was very real and separate state for Muslims seemed like the best solution to water down communal tensions.
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“it was created as a puppet state for Britain.”
I mean’t wasn’t*
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Mosh,
I am sorry that you are playing right into the hands of divisiveness again. Hindutva, Islamic fanaticism are rhetorics that everyone in India likes to spout. The issue is an external person like a brit or american can side with one of the groups publicly or privately, thereby weakening India.
Also note that I have no love for Pakistan in its current form. Pakistan has to find its own way out of the mess that it is now. Again, Zia Ul Haq and the royal family of Junagarh (Bhuttos) are squarely to blame for this. And ofcourse not to mention American and Saudi imperialism in the region has only made it worse. I wish I could say something positive about the place, but being a keen pakistani observer for the last 10 years, I dont have any hopes. I do feel sorry for those Pakistanis who have been victims of circumstance and who truly understand the sorry state of Pakistan at this point.
That being said, I have valid reasons to criticize Jinnah, Gandhi and Nehru. Check my other posts on criticism of Nehru. I am not here to prove my “Hindutva” credential. I am least bit interested in religion, I have no love for any religion or beliefs. I dont have to prove it to you either, so you can take it or leave it 🙂
Moving on:
The brits never unified India. Indian princely states were given a choice of whether to be in India or be in Pakistan or be independent. Most of them would have chosen to stay independent if not for Sardar Patel. The history is pretty evident in this matter.
Let me ask you this, a goon attacks your village and your surrounding villages all the time, rapes the women, kills the men and destroys your economy. You traditionally are not connected to the next village other than having a common culture. This goon is a common problem and you figure out how to get rid of the goon. So you unite and fight.
When the goon leaves, you decide to merge your villages to form a big defensive unit on the basis of common culture. Would you thank the goon for this result? Would you be ok with paying the price of your brothers killed and sisters raped by the goon for the sake of unifying the villages into a stronger unit?
Jinnah was not the only leader of Indian muslims, I agree with that statement. Neither was Nehru/Gandhi the leaders of Indian Hindus. Muslim League was the most powerful Islamic org in India and Jinnah was its leader. There is enough evidence (I can provide it to you) that he was played by the British leading to the partition of India.
Jinnah’s (and the Muslim League’s) main issue was this: They assumed that they ruled India for 1000 years before the British came (this is a historical aberration, it was nowhere close to 1000 years), and they refused to be under Hindu rule because they were not sure how the Hindus would treat them.
You should note that there was never a strong Hindu movement for unity or Radicalization at anytime. There were fringes of Hindu radicalization and one of them ended up killing Gandhi. If all Hindus were radicals and violent, the partition would have been much much bloodier than it was.
Again, by using rhetoric such as ‘Hindutva’ and assorted divisive tools invented by the west, you are only playing into their hands. What we need to find is a way to trust each other enough to stay united, and that involves and includes criticizing historic figures for their historic mistakes.
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Somebody posted this on their Fbook page and I am sharing it because I thought it was quite appropriate in relation to this discussion. The saying ‘never a truer word said in jest ‘ probably applies here. According to my OH the guy – Felix Dexter, died last month R.I.P. I liked what I had seen of him.
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q_mMtgVVpbc)
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@ Omnipresent…Felix Dexter, dead?
Oh no.
I don’t even know which one of his HILARIOUS creations I loved the most… …maybe Douglas the Culture Lawyer, or Nathaniel the Nigerian Accountant ( Do I know your father Omg!)
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RgyEOctCsf0)
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_SEvhZ1_n9U)
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Bulanik:
Yes he is. As I said I liked what I had seen of him but not knowledgeable about his characters.
There was a BBC Special on about him which my OH watched and how he even came on to my radar at all
(http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b03jg38p/Respect_A_Felix_Dexter_Special/)
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I don’t think the tolerant Economist magazine has much tolerance for President Assad of Syria. Perhaps they felt the same about the late Presidents Gaddhafi of Libya and Saddam Hussein of Iraq. Never mind, they must like Tony Blair.
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[…] “Britain no longer has a serious race problem.” […]
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So Britain no longer has a serious race problem huh? Well if that’s so let them return the island of Diego Gracia (Chagas Is.) in the Indian Ocean to it’s darkie inhabitants whom they threw out some decades ago.
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[…] Bloomberg’s Stop ‘n Frisk policy. Nor is it just confined to the U.S. In a post from the blog Abagond referring to an article in the Economist on Britain’s “colorblindness” we find the […]
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Britain no longer has a race problem claims white magazine. As a black Brit thanks for letting me know.
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[…] “Britain no longer has a serious race problem.” […]
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Eye survive here they are more than racist ..behind the façade of English etiquette they interrupt our development , Deaths in custody, And a government which look after their 5% . Cold too
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“@ Pay it Forward
“Thank you and accepted without reservation! We’ll just chalk it up to the minor hiccups that inevitably occur, especially in limited communication mediums like the net.”
_ _ _
I’m just seeing the above for the first time. It is very kind of you, Legion, to accept my apology in such a graceful manner. 🙂 Thank you!
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In Britain, the language is different, but the methodology and outcomes are pretty consistent with that of the US. Britain loves to point to tolerance and being colour-blind as the ideal state for society.
Overt racism still exists (see Nigel Farage and UKIP), but they often fail to acknowledge (willingly? defiantly?) the impact of systemic racism. Inevitably, those who benefit from the structured racism, deny its existence, so… it continues.
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Except the thing is that immigrants are guests, and not necessarily deserving of equal rights with the indigenous, native British.
Sadiq Khan is no more British than Genghis Khan.
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@Bobby M
Now you are being redundant.
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@Afrofem – still my point stands. Guests do not deserve the same rights. The Islamization and general Darkening of Europe is cause for great concern.
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@ Bobby M
“Guests do not deserve the same rights.”
Guess what? You don’t get to personally decide who is a “guest” and who is a natural-born or naturalized citizen with all the rights that entails. There are laws for that, both here and in the UK. You aren’t a very law-abiding citizen, are you, hmmm?
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You don’t get to personally decide who is a “guest” and who is a natural-born or naturalized citizen with all the rights that entails
That’s his problem, he has no ncontrol, hence his delusional comments.
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They ARE foreign. They aren’t British just cause they moved there, any more than I would be Jewish if I got circumcised.
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@ Bobby M
By that logic, the English aren’t British, either. That was the term the Romans used for the original Celtic inhabitants of the islands. The English aren’t British just because they moved there.
And could you possibly refrain from mentioning your penis? No one cares about your foreskin except you.
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Even the British, the Celts, are latecomers – they were not the ones who built Stonehenge.
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The only part of Britain where most people’s maternal line goes back to the original human inhabitants is Wales. Everyone else is an immigrant or an invader.
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@ Abagond
That’s interesting about Wales. I didn’t know that. I remember studying about the pre-Celtic inhabitants like the Beaker People and the Wessex People, but IIRC at the time there was no definitive agreement on the ethnic background of the pre-Celts and at any rate they no longer existed as a separate identity group but were thought to have been subsumed into the Celtic population through intermarriage. I haven’t kept up with any of the current DNA research concerning the pre-Celtic peoples of Britain; sounds like I need to brush up on it and get up to speed.
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Solitaire
“No one cares about your foreskin except you.”–ROFL
Common symptomsense of small penisitous.
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Symptoms*
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@ Sharina
And it would be a tad smaller yet if he were circumcised. Perhaps that’s why he’s so fixated on constantly mentioning that he is not. Y’know, just in case anyone happens to be idly wondering, “Hmm, is Bobby M circumcised?” Wonder no more!
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@Solitaire and Sharina – you both probably had a botched circumcision and that’s why you’re jealous of mine…
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Bobby M
So jealous I am going to go out and get one just to make your statement true.
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@Sharinalr – I think you maybe have only 1 inch and a half
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HENCEFORTH I am deleting all comments about genitals on any thread, the same as if they were spam.
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^That seriously limits Bobby M’s contributions to your threads.
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^^^
@ Sharina
Literally LOLing!
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@Abagond, whose blog would be boring with out my contributions, decides to censor me like this is Soviet Russia. Not Nice!
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@ Bobby M
Dude, learn to read. Abagond is censoring everyone, not only you. It just affects you more than anyone else, for some odd reason that I can’t even begin to fathom why.
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Well, I’ll be. there is no race problem in the UK, now that quarter Nazi Harry marries a biracial divorcee? You can’t make this sh*t up.
Meghan was like “F*ck this shit. He better marry my ass while he’s got most of his hair left”
Gun to my head, Harry’s my favorite British Royal I suppose. His proposal to Meghan reminds me of his attraction to Halle Berry and the posters he used to keep on his walls as a young boy. I guess it never left his system.
You only need to see how he looked at Rihanna to see he’s always had a thing for chocolate.
But some are out making like Meghan’s the founder of the Black Panthers. Fact is she’s mixed race more aligned with white circles. Unlike many I don’t think she looks that white-passing. This ain’t like the singer’s Halsey situation.
Who looks straight up like a white woman even though her father is black. You can see somethings going on when you look at Meghan.
Meghan needs to be careful. The royal family don’t do ethnics. Hell, even upper middle class, privately school educated, millionaire background white Kate Middelton was seen as a commoner.
So what do you think they’ll make of someone whose mother was raised in Crenshaw ?
The last person who stepped out with a side piece of brown got both of their brains left on the side of a parisan tunnel.
She better be careful during their hunting sessions if Prince Philip is alive.
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@ THHR
Co-sign.
Markle’s former neighbors in “Black Beverly Hills” think she is just marrying into a run of the mill rich family. They don’t have a clue as to the depravity of the British Peers. Harry with the swastika is just the tip of the iceberg.
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Interestingly, the 29th and 30th in line to the throne are part Māori: Senna Kowhai Lewis and Tāne Mahuta Lewis.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lady_Davina_Lewis
My guess is they are too far down the line of succession for the Royal Family to care.
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Yeah Harry in the dressing up like a Nazi was not cool. Megan Markel’s character Rachel on Suits was so boring.
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http://herneith.d.pr/pL7Qhc
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@ Herneith
Thanks for the link. My husband and I were just discussing Queen Charlotte last night. We were laughing about how the Windsors already have African ancestry in their gene pool through her.
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According to one of my colleagues Meghan and Harry have common ancestor – Elizabeth Bowes. I don’t know if this person is Royal or part of nobility
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@ Omnipresent
According to this article, they are related through the Bowes family, but many generations back.
Meghan’s branch of the Bowes family has been on this side of the pond since the 1630s.
https://www.google.com/amp/metro.co.uk/2017/11/27/lets-not-forget-prince-harry-and-meghan-markle-are-actually-cousins-7111639/amp/
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With all that colonialism of Africa i bet there was some dipping in that chocolate pool by those Windsors.
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This isn’t like in America, where blacks were forced to come and Indians were already here. Pakistanis and Blacks chose to come to Britain, and the natives are under no obligation to be accommodating. In fact, I wish that they would all go back to where they came from.
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And we all wish you’d get out of Africa and the Caribbean and everywhere else you’ve colonized and head back to Europe.
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This what I like about posters like yourself. You provide constant comic relief!
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Britain has a very serious race problem – a huge chunk of its population is of foreign racial origin. Indigenous British rights!
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They should leave Britain. It’s not theirs, just like Syria, Somalia, India, Nigeria aren’t ours.
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You forgot South Africa, Zimbabwe, Namibia, Kenya. They aren’t yours either.
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South Africa is indisputably ours. We created it.
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By stealing what was already there.
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Paul Kruger
No white man or woman is African.
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it’s funny reading this pre-MegHangry stuff again
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If no White person is African, no black person is European. Fair is fair.
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@Paul Kruger
Just be thankful I’m not in charge in South Africa. White South Africans would have an experience were every description of hell would sound like a beautiful dream long gone.
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@ Paul Kruger
Look at the news today,
https://edition.cnn.com/2023/03/27/uk/snp-new-leader-intl/index.html
It seems that true Europeans are not paying enough attention to your concerns about the purity of the race and the greatness of the continent (Quo vadis lady Evropa?). I think you should try harder to make yourself heard.
Maybe this is a trend that will become more common wordwide as people become less race conscious and want leaders who they can trust and who deliver. By the way, remember a guy of Scot descent who became President of Zambia less than ten years ago?
https://edition.cnn.com/2014/10/29/world/africa/zambia-white-president/index.html
And guess what: no earthquake happened, no social unrest, no casualties, no nothing… only business as usual.
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Keith, remember what happened the last time you guys tried that? Sharpeville 1960.
As for Scotland, it’s disgusting to see aliens ruling over Westerners. They can no more adopt our culture than they can our complexion.
And you nonwhites didn’t accept Ian Smith or PW Botha ruling you, so I’m not sure why I should accept nonwhites ruling over my people? We will get our Boer Republics back one day, just you wait and see…
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So much bullshit. It isn’t your culture and hasn’t been since blacks started contributing to it.
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We made it without them. I do not like the influences. Rap “music”? Really?
Lots of good people have been falsely labeled racist for daring to utter a word of criticism against black behavior.
Let’s call roll
Dr Verwoerd, Ian Smith, Cecil Rhodes, Paul Kruger, Andries Pretorius, Jan Smuts, Louis Botha, Agatha Christie, Winston Churchill, the Queen Mother, Queen Victoria, Roald Dahl, Dr Seuss, Robert E Lee, Jefferson Davis, Thomas Jefferson, Andrew Jackson, Immanuel Kant, of course, Derek Chauvin…
All of these are racist? Really?
Benjamin Netanyahu, Admiral Nicholas Horthy, Justin Bieber, Beverly Cleary, Morgan Wallen, Woodrow Wilson, Charles de Gaulle, Otto von Bismarck, the Kaiser, Queen Victoria, Emperor Nicholas Romanoff, Alexander Graham Bell, Guglielmo Marconi, Thomas Edison
We wouldn’t even have these lights on in our houses if it wasn’t for Tom, but, oh no, he was a racist!
Even their own! Gina Rodriguez, George Zimmerman, Xi Jinping, Hideki Tojo, Mahatma Gandhi
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Paul Kruger
Of course if white ppl have the advantage of guns then of course whites would win, that’s all that happened in Sharpeville.
But in 2023 most blk ppl (certainly way more than 1960) have access to guns. You will be faced with mass resistance.
Plenty of white ppl in SA will be massacred, families wiped out, communities looted and burnt.
There is no shortage of real veterans from blk urban background. Yes the most disproportionately represented group come from white exurban and rural areas.
Yes white supremacists have always Joined the military, to learn to fight in their little Rahowa thing. The flipside to that, is if they do start up their race war, you’ll find there’s a lot of blk ppl who’ve had that same training, as well as combat experience.
Black people in SA ain’t going anywhere without great tragedy to your own.
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Paul Kruger
The issue is not about being white and “unable” to criticize black people. Jesus, how anyone could believe that in a culture where white critique of black people is a daily, hourly, minute-by-minute pastime is beyond me.
The issue is – White ppl have to get over this idea that they are special and Abagond has stated this. You are not special and you are not being allowed frame the debate of racism by shifting the debate onto black people and what we supposedly do or don’t do and that’s going to require humilty.
White ppl have a lot to answer for. Racism won’t go away as long as they are too afraid to just sit down, be honest, and look at why it’s still a problem and actually help find a solution.
No I don’t mean find a solution as in tell black people what to think or think that being nice to a black waitress gets you a medal. I mean genuinely sitting down, looking at themselves and realizing that there’s a whole world out there beyond themselves and their culture and they don’t have the right to pretend the entire universe was reserved for only them.
Humility.
As long as you and other whites just view the situation as a case of angry black people instead of viewing things from a perspective that does not favour the privilege you (deep in side) are too scared to lose, you won’t have that “Kumbaya” you keep asking for.
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Paul Kruger
They aren’t racist white supremacists. They’re white extremists.
All of these are racist? Really?
All white people are racist.
All white people raised in a society where racism has been (and still is) so prevalent, will have internalized elements of racist thinking: certain beliefs, stereotypes, assumptions, and judgments about others and themselves.
So in countries where beliefs in European/white superiority and domination have been historically embedded, it is likely that everyone in such places will have ingested some of that conditioning.
Yes all of them racist. That does not necessarily mean they hate blk ppl. .
https://abagond.wordpress.com/2009/11/06/the-white-inventor-argument/
Their own ? None of them are blk.
But black folks are capable of internalizing and then acting or having the same anti-black prejudices and stereotypes as white ppl.
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No black people don’t accept being killed, subjagated, living in the mud and livin under a tyrannical system of white supremacy, ruled over by a people who are not African.
Funny that eh ?
You’re assuming that blk ppl will do to white ppl what white people delight and want and have done to black ppl.
Black people don’t think like white ppl. Black people don’t have that racial insecurity (that whites have) which makes us want to sh*t on other races of people.
So if we had a blk hospital and a white person needed treatment ? We would treat that white person and we wouldn’t use whites as guinea pigs in blk hospitals, the way whites use blks as guinea pigs in white hospitals.
We would not fight harder to save a black life in black hospitals. The way white ppl fight harder to save a white life in a white hospitals.
We would not rip up your CV’s and resumes the way white rip our CV’s and resumes
We would not run around trying to prove how stupid and violent white ppl are. The same way white ppl r always running around trying to prove how stupid n violent blk ppl are.
We would not allow a blk police force to blow the Brains out of unarmed white ppl and walk free. The same way white ppl allow a white police force to blow the brains out of blk ppl n walk free.
See most blk ppl don’t think like me as I’m a bit more radical and most blk ppl could never treat white ppl. The way whites have treated blk ppl.
God just didn’t make us that way. He just didn’t give us that heart.
STFU !!!
Trying to talk tough on the net. You joker. Get on with it then ? Get off the net and get on with the killing of blk ppl and doing what you have to do to create your white boer republic ppl.
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