George Stinney, Jr (1929-1944), at age 14, was the youngest person in America to be executed since the 1800s. A jury of 12 white men found Stinney, a black boy, guilty of the murder of two white girls, Betty June Binnicker, age 11, and Mary Emma Thames, age 8.
One spring day in 1944 in the mill town of Alcolu, South Carolina, two white girls went to pick flowers down by the railroad tracks that divided the town into black and white.
When they did not return, hundreds went in search of them, black and white, George Stinney among them. They searched deep into the night. They found them the next morning, dead in a ditch, their bicycle on top of them, their heads beat in, apparently by a nearby railroad spike. No sign of rape.
The police rounded up black boys, George Stinney among them. Stinney became the main suspect when they found out that he was the last one to see them alive – the white girls had asked him where to find maypops (Passiflora incarnata), a kind of flower.
The police questioned him, without a lawyer (no Miranda rights back then). His parents were not allowed to be present. After an hour he confessed, reportedly after being offered an ice cream cone. The confession was neither written nor signed.
There were no eyewitnesses, no physical evidence. Even for 14 he was small: 5 foot 1 (1.55m) and 90 pounds (40kg). It is physically improbable that he could kill two girls with a railroad spike.
According to the confession, he wanted to have sex with Binnicker, the 11-year-old girl, and killed Thames to be alone with her. Then, when Binnicker refused his advances, he killed her too.
A lynch mob arrived at the jail when the news of the confession spread, but Stinney had already been moved to the state capital.
His father was fired at the mill, his family ran out of town.
The murder trial a month later lasted less than three hours. The courthouse was standing room only, no blacks allowed.
Charles Plowden, Stinney’s court-appointed lawyer was a white tax lawyer. Plowden:
- did not ask for a change of venue;
- did not cross-examine witnesses;
- did not call any witnesses;
- did not appeal.
Plowden’s whole defence was that Stinney was too young to be tried as an adult. Wrong: 14 was old enough according to South Carolina law.
The jury of 12 white men took 10 minutes to find Stinney “guilty with no recommendation for mercy”.
Hundreds wrote to the governor asking for mercy, among them the NAACP, churches and labour unions. One citizen informed him:
Child execution is only for Hitler.
The governor disagreed:
On June 16th 1944, Stinney, carrying a Bible under his arm, walked to the electric chair, just 81 days after his arrest. He was so small they had trouble strapping him in. The mask over his face was too big and fell off in the middle, “revealing his wide-open, tearful eyes and saliva coming from his mouth.” A few minutes later he was dead.
Thanks to Peanut, Thinking Better and Jefe for suggesting this post.
See also:
If we can believe it, Miranda rights did not come until 1966 after Thurgood Marshall argued it in front of the Supreme Court.
Way too late for this boy.
But I do want to know the results of the re-investigation of the case in 2005 and 2011.
LikeLike
This story is heartbreaking. That child looks smaller than 14, its crazy, why not just put him in prison instead of executing him, but I guess that wouldn’t have mattered as the lynch mob would’ve got him. Anytime there Is accusations dealing with a white female they’d be out there. “revealing his wide-open, tearful eyes and saliva coming from his mouth.” This part is very chilling, I think of trayvons picture. His family was chased out of town, not knowing what was going to happen to their son, that would be hard to deal with. I bet the police told him what he did instead of the other way around and then had him say yes I did do that. That was a mock trial.
LikeLike
This just gave me a sick feeling, but so typical for the time. Has their been a judicial revue of this case? Has the state of South Carolina officially apologized to his relatives for this heinous act?
LikeLike
There has been a push to reopen the case, but so far as I know it has not gone anywhere yet. The thinking is that if the state reopens the case it will have to throw it out – because the case is so badly documented: no written confession, no physical evidence, not even a court transcript! Most capital cases are thoroughly documented.
LikeLike
He has not been cleared of this crime but I read this article and rumors of a white man on his deathbed told family members he killed the girls. http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2011/10/03/new-evidence-could-clear-14-year-old-executed-by-south-carolina/
LikeLike
This is upsetting, but at least there is some comfort that the likelihood of this happening today is much smaller- a sign that real improvement has occurred. Even if he did commit those murders most people today look at the punishment as horrific.
LikeLike
In 2005 the Supreme Court outlawed capital punishment for crimes committed under age 18. However, children can still be tried as adults, public defenders are still terrible, the police can still scapegoat and get false confessions, etc. Blacks who kill whites are far more likely to wind up on death row than whites who kill blacks. And, as we know from DNA evidence, there were dozens of innocent blacks put on death row. The whole thing is horrific.
LikeLike
And they call us, animals. No wonder they want us to “get over it”, to have to be reminded of the atrocities that their ancestors took part in either by remaining silent or taking an active role in the destruction of human lives. They will pay.
LikeLike
It is not like it was a long time ago. He was born after Barbara Walters and Bob Newhart, and they have just retired. He was born 9 months after Martin Luther King, Jr.
Had he not been executed he could still very well be alive today.
LikeLike
Wow, Jefe, something to consider.
About apologies: Apologies are largely meaningless when it comes to things lie stealing Native lands, residential schools, murder of Black Americans. They’re meaningless. They happen far too long after the atrocities happened. It’s like Prime Minister Harper apologizing for the Canadian residential schools – it’s pointless. I don’t even know why oppressed people bother demanding apologies. They usually come instead of actual meaningful restitution. Apologies are what governments do instead of paying back the money that was taken with interest, instead of giving back the unceded land, instead of paying the surviving descendants for financial amends. It’s infuriating. Why do people even ask for them or accept them? I know why actually – I might do the same thing. And dialogue can be important, as long as its done earnestly. But in some cases, I think this is a mistake. Sanity cannot prevail if we argue with insanity.
LikeLike
Meanwhile:
“REPORT: More Black Juveniles Are Sentenced To Life Without Parole”
– “Among the findings of the report are chilling data on how this kind of sentencing impacts the lives of young Black men. Of all juveniles that are sentenced to life without parole, 97 percent are male, and 60 percent are Black. Furthermore, the proportion of blacks serving life for killing a white person is much higher than that of whites sentenced to life for killing blacks.” –
http://www.blackyouthproject.com/2012/03/report-more-black-juveniles-are-sentenced-to-life-without-parole/
“Ugly Truth: Most U.S. Kids Sentenced to Die In Prison Are Black”
– “On a national level, according to Human Rights Watch, African American youths are serving life without parole at a rate of about 10 times that of white youths”. –
http://www.ikhwanweb.com/article.php?id=21729
“Stanford psychologists examine how race affects juvenile sentencing ”
– “The statistics out there indicate that there are racial disparities in sentencing juveniles who have committed severe crimes,” said Eberhardt, associate professor of psychology. “That led us to wonder, to what extent does race play a role in how people think about juvenile status?”
“The study involved a nationally representative sample of 735 white Americans. Only white participants were used because whites are statistically overrepresented on juries, in the legal field and in the judiciary.
The participants were asked to read about a 14-year-old male with 17 prior juvenile convictions who brutally raped an elderly woman. Half of the respondents were told the offender was black; the other half were told he was white. The difference in race was the only change between the two stories.
The researchers then asked the participants two questions dealing with sentencing and perception.
The first: To what extent do you support life sentences without the possibility of parole for juveniles when no one was killed?
The second: How much do you believe that juveniles who commit crimes such as these should be considered less blameworthy than an adult who commits a similar crime?
The study found that participants who had in mind a black offender more strongly endorsed a policy of sentencing juveniles convicted of violent crimes to life in prison without parole compared to respondents who had in mind a white offender……….
……The black-offender group also rated juvenile offenders as more similar to adults in their culpability than did respondents in the white-offender group.
The study took into account racial bias and political ideology, yet neither accounted for these effects”. –
LikeLike
^^^^^^^ http://news.stanford.edu/news/2012/may/race-juvenile-offenders-052412.html
LikeLike
I was reminded by a poster on one of the sites I just posted above of an excellent PBS documentaries titled, “Slavery by Another Name” which speaks indirectly to how and why the prison industrial complex came to be as overrepresented by blacks as it is today; as described by the short blurb under the YT vid, the documentary “challenges one of Americans’ most cherished assumptions: the belief that slavery in this country ended with the Emancipation Proclamation. The film tells how even as chattel slavery came to an end in the South in 1865, thousands of African Americans were pulled back into forced labor with shocking force and brutality. It was a system in which men, often guilty of no crime at all, were arrested, compelled to work without pay, repeatedly bought and sold, and coerced to do the bidding of masters. Tolerated by both the North and South, forced labor lasted well into the 20th century.”
LikeLike
As hard as this is to read and contemplate, thank you for articles like this, Aba. Shaft of pain through my heart reading this first thing in the morning. But we must never ever forget our history in this nation and how it pertains to our present circumstances as well.
And @ Jefe: YES! See we are a young nation, and so much of the stuff people keep telling us to “get over it” isn’t ancient history. It is in the past, yes, but no so far off. People alive today remember stories told to their great grandparents who in turn heard it from their greats and from living relatives about their experiences as slaves – stories handed down and not all that many generations ago, Jim Crow and an innocent Black boy (among oh, so many) murdered by the state.notwithstanding.
@ Anon – yeah I’m with you on that whole apologies thing. I never ever was a fan of that whole thing either. They don’t do a damn thing towards actual changing of anything. Didn’t USA officially apologize for slavery somewhere in 2009? Look at all that has transpired since then. They don’t do a damn thing but make the people issuing them feel better, and that’s what I said then, and I’ll second you on it here too.
LikeLike
@Awake BW,
You said: “But we must never ever forget our history in this nation and how it pertains to our present circumstances as well.”
I couldn’t agree with you more Awake; my post regarding the present day condition of blacks in the prison system today wasn’t a response to Abagond, it was a response to @Asplund. In fact, I just posted an historical documentary that explains the connection between the present day treatment of blacks by the “justice system” and the past; just waiting for Abagond to let it through.
LikeLike
Josh Aiken performs George Stinney in Edison Theatre in Washington University in St. Louis at the 2012 Poetry Grand Slam:
LikeLike
[…] George Stinney, Jr (1929-1944), at age 14, was the youngest person in America to be executed since the 1800s.===The murder trial a month later lasted less than three hours. The courthouse was standing room only, no blacks allowed. Charles Plowden, Stinney’s court-appointed lawyer was a white tax lawyer. Plowden:did not ask for a change of venue;did not cross-examine witnesses;did not call any witnesses;did not appeal.Plowden’s whole defence was that Stinney was too young to be tried as an adult. Wrong: 14 was old enough according to South Carolina law.The jury of 12 white men took 10 minutes to find Stinney “guilty with no recommendation for mercy”. […]
LikeLike
Aint that a b? I am so tired of our men being killed for white people. he even tried to help! When will we learn?????
LikeLike
The Stinney case is utterly barbaric. So is the Troy Davis case in 2011. Both were legalized lynchings. No country with America’s level of racism of dehumanizing racial minorities or its history of lynching has any business having capital punishment.
LikeLike
That is probably the main reason that history is not really taught in school. How can you be a proud people when you do (a stronger word than crap belongs here) crap like that.
Get over it, how can we you have even admitted it!
The problem of American history is this after telling everything that has happen since the Mayflower you can’t really look at the majority class without saying you don’t really deserve anything. When you look at those thanksgiving pictures just remember less than a year in a half down they started to build fences to keep those Indians out. The very people who had taught them how to live on the land because they didn’t know how. History is water down to protect their children so they don’t feel bad. Least of all history wise they don’t even deserve trust, that people are willing to give it you is a miracle in itself.
That this country rest on the bones of innocents and we aren’t talking about anything that is so far back. With so called Christian hands they covered the ground in blood. Non of it is so far back the Civil Rights movement wasn’t that far back some people are still alive from back then.
LikeLike
Yeah abagond the Troy Davis execution was crazy to me. I remember feeling hopeful when the supreme court was looking into it and then he was executed. I read the articles and it was a guy named red coles that did it. I’m not surprised since Georgia been executing innocent ppl because they don’t want to find the truth just have someone pay for the crime regardless if they did it or not. I don’t know how the family of that policeman could not say anything or try to stop the execution when all these ppl were coming out and saying it wasn’t troy. I mean dam if that was me i’d want them to get the right person not execute someone, that has reasonable doubt has to if they are guilty. I’d be like u know what just give him a life sentence and if he is innocent then prove and if he is guilty well at least he’s in prison and is paying for it. I mean come on its like they don’t care they just want someone to hurt the way they do. Even when I see the Atlanta child murderer case some of the mothers were forgiving him and even said I don’t think he is guilty of killing my child. But with these ppl they are just like we don’t care one less ni##r to worry about. smh
LikeLike
@ Karen
“Aint that a b? I am so tired of our men being killed for white people. he even tried to help! When will we learn?????”
Yep it sure is a beyotch. it is crazy that just because he helped them and said he saw the girls they assumed it was him. I’m hesitant to help ppl sometimes because of things like this and we see how they treated Charles ramsey, making autotunes and not wanting to call him a hero. smh
LikeLike
@ Kiwi
Right, it is not even cost effective.
LikeLike
[…] George Stinney, Jr (1929-1944), at age 14, was the youngest person in America to be executed since the 1800s.===The murder trial a month later lasted less than three hours. The courthouse was standing room only, no blacks allowed. Charles Plowden, Stinney’s court-appointed lawyer was a white tax lawyer. Plowden:did not ask for a change of venue;did not cross-examine witnesses;did not call any witnesses;did not appeal.Plowden’s whole defence was that Stinney was too young to be tried as an adult. Wrong: 14 was old enough according to South Carolina law.The jury of 12 white men took 10 minutes to find Stinney “guilty with no recommendation for mercy”. […]
LikeLike
[…] George Stinney, Jr (1929-1944), at age 14, was the youngest person in America to be executed since the 1800s.===The murder trial a month later lasted less than three hours. The courthouse was standing room only, no blacks allowed. Charles Plowden, Stinney’s court-appointed lawyer was a white tax lawyer. Plowden:did not ask for a change of venue;did not cross-examine witnesses;did not call any witnesses;did not appeal.Plowden’s whole defence was that Stinney was too young to be tried as an adult. Wrong: 14 was old enough according to South Carolina law.The jury of 12 white men took 10 minutes to find Stinney “guilty with no recommendation for mercy”. […]
LikeLike
I hope the lawyer,lynch mob and all the evil devils involved in that child’s murder are burning in hell. One of the many atrocities in America’s racist past.present . Who knows how many more atrocitie.s perpetrated against black people? I read about this a couple of years ago,and it hurt me to my core. Yes I am aware of this evil,that was done to this young boy. They have been hunting and killing black men for centuries.
LikeLike
This was pure evil. Like I said in my previous comments, I hope they are burning in hell. So shameful.
LikeLike
Definitely a sad story. It’s a shame when anyone that age is killed, but because this was the grinding wheel of government that crushed this kid, it makes it worse for me some how.
Any history on what happened with the family following this? Did anyone else confess to the original crime some time after?
LikeLike
Parts of this remind me of the Green Mile. I wonder if Stephen King and Frank Durabant were inspired by this incident?
LikeLike
@abagond…This one cu kinda close. I’m from SC and my 14 year-old cousin died on “The Island” when I was 21. No investigation, except a police report: http://lets-be-clear.blogspot.com/2010/10/few-ruminations.html Not spamming you here Brother, just sharing — it unbinds the spirit.
LikeLike
Wow. The main reason I came to this blog today was just to look up Juneteenth. The story above is really sickening.
LikeLike
The Governor was Olin D. Johnston
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Olin_D._Johnston
Wonder how his relatives feel knowing that he now resides in Hell.
LikeLike
Like you Mary, I also read about this case a while back, only the account I remember reading contained much less detail and, going by the way the article was written, presumed that George Stinney was indeed guilty as charged.
Almost everything abagond includes in his post was left out of the account I read, except where it was stated that George was sent to the electric chair (what a horrific way to die) after being convicted of murdering one and then the second of two white girls when his plans to rape the oldest were thwarted.
Of course I figured it was a trumped up charge, but I had no idea the child was coerced into confessing to something so improbable as an attempting rape and the murdering of two girls in return for an ice cream cone. Racist whites arranged for a child to fry in the electric chair simply because he was Black and liked ice cream.
(IIRC, the children who had been rounded up as suspects in the Central Park Jogger case were later tricked into making a false confession. These same children, after having endured hours of police questioning, were made to believe that it would all come to a swift end – and that they’d quickly be returned home to their parents – if they would just say they ‘did it’…..)
LikeLike
@Flamma…“IIRC, the children who had been rounded up as suspects in the Central Park Jogger case were later tricked into making a false confession. These same children, after having endured hours of police questioning, were made to believe that it would all come to a swift end – and that they’d quickly be returned home to their parents – if they would just say they ‘did it’”
I just thinking the same thing!
LikeLike
And in the George Stinney case, those bastards offered that child ice cream. That is just demonic and they probably beat him until, he confessed, I am sure those dogs tortured that poor child. Those demons were in the same class as Hitler, when it comes to evil.
LikeLike
There are too many unfounded assumptions in these comments. He was executed despite being a child, which is always wrong. He did not have access to a decent defense.
He may not have been guilty of the charge, but at the same time he may have been guilty. Assumptions don’t help with these kinds of incidents. Historical accuracy is important. This is different from Troy Davis by a good bit, in my opinion.
LikeLike
I think many people who fall out of the mainstream are hypersexualized. Mentally disabled people are hypersexualized. LGBT people are hypersexualized. They are all viewed as sexual predators.
So, “normal” people need to be protected from these sexual predators.
LikeLike
@ Asplund
Looking at it logically I think it is far more likely that the police tricked or forced a 14-year-old into a confession than that he was able to bash in the skulls of two girls – at least one of whom would be able to run away. Also, the police in that time and place were hardly above beating up suspects to get a confession.
Even in 1989 the police in New York were able to get five black and Latino teenagers to confess to beating and raping a rich white woman, the Central Park Jogger. The press said they were “wilding”, like they knew. Not a damn bit of it was true, as it turned out.
LikeLike
@ Riverside Rob
The father was able to find work in another town. I believe a sister and brother of Stinney’s later moved to New York. You can see his younger brother, now an old man, talk about the case on YouTube.
Ms Good noted upthread:
rumors of a white man on his deathbed told family members he killed the girls. http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2011/10/03/new-evidence-could-clear-14-year-old-executed-by-south-carolina/
LikeLike
One thing that struck me about the Stinney case that is like the Zimmerman case is the way many whites “believe the system” – the police, the law, the courts – rather than use common sense and moral thinking, at least where a black life is at stake.
LikeLike
“Some of the explanations are historical (Jezebel stereotype is a product of slave rape) but how does that explain why almost all people of color are viewed through a perverse, sexualized white gaze, even where there is no historical background or grain of truth to the stereotype?”
********
In a word:
P-R-O-J-E-C-T-I-O-N
LikeLike
@ Abagond
“One thing that struck me about the Stinney case that is like the Zimmerman case is the way many whites “believe the system” – the police, the law, the courts – rather than use common sense and moral thinking, at least where a black life is at stake.”
********
Yes … except that “common sense and moral thinking” has no place in racism/white supremacy.
If it did, racism/white supremacy could not exist.
“believe the system” virtually ALWAYS TRUMPS the TRUTH when/where black lives are at stake.
LikeLike
A severe and murderous case of projection and a superiority complex. They call us savages and animals, but then they do everything they can to murder a child because of who he is, a black child. And they think they’re doing this for some kind of “greater good” because of the infantile, moronic lie that white skin is virtually angelic and almost godlike. Thus, they can kill anyone they want, blame it on whoever they want, in this case black people, and they never get punished, at least in this life if there is judgment in the afterlife.
LikeLike
@Kiwi
“This got me thinking. Why does white racism have such a strong fixation on the sexuality of people of color? ”
Well, I’ll refer specifically to black sexuality since they fixate on that more than anything else. When a black person contributes his/her DNA to a child the child is almost always born with color. And if the biracial child chooses to have kids with a black person the grandkids will not be looking very white at all (exhibit: the Obama family). That is what this reality has ordained. Whites must inbreed consistently in order to guarantee manifestation of the traits they’ve defined themselves by. Black people, OTOH, can occasionally give birth to albinos with fair hair, skin, and eyes. Racially conscious whites (and almost all of them are so to some extent) are therefore afraid of the black phallus more than anything else. That is one of the reasons that the black man is the big bogeyman and sexual brute/predator. In many cases of lynching, whites removed the genitals of the black male victim and kept it.
Only avowed white supremacists will come out plainly with it but many “not racist” whites still won’t be happy to see their child marry a black person.
To quote David Duke via wikipedia:
“We (Whites) desire to live in our own neighborhoods, go to our own schools, work in our own cities and towns, and ultimately live as one extended family in our own nation. We shall end the racial genocide of integration.”
RACIAL GENOCIDE OF INTEGRATION! If you love them and interact with them in a racially agnostic manner they’ll DIE off! IMO, that fear is deep in the white collective consciousness. Their interest in ‘minority’ sexuality, population statistics, fertility, etc, is directly related to their own precarious position as a supposed race. IMO, they’re looking more like a fraction distilled from the basic black gold of humanity that settled in Africa. Once the part reunites with the whole, it gradually disappears.
Mythically/symbolically:
Genesis 1:26
“And ELOHIM (plural: Gods) said let US make man [named ADAM] in OUR image”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adam
In 19th century scholarship, “Adam” (Hebrew: אָדָם) was linked with the triliteral root אָדַם ( ‘ADM ), meaning “RED”, “FAIR”, “handsome”
Genesis 2:2
“And ELOHIM had finished on the seventh day his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made”
I hope the ELOHIM start waking up from their forgetful slumber by November. Thousands of years of sleep are a bit much…lol. They’ve given fair ol’ Adam a long enough time of absolute freedom to hang himself with.
(Temple of Seti I in KeMeT – “The Black Land” [ so called Egypt] :
http://www.touregypt.net/images/touregypt/pic12042006.jpg )
@abagond
“The Stinney case is utterly barbaric. So is the Troy Davis case in 2011. Both were legalized lynchings. No country with America’s level of racism of dehumanizing racial minorities or its history of lynching has any business having capital punishment.”
So True. Look at this list:
http://www.doc.state.al.us/execution.asp
The DP was basically used as another way to lynch black men while giving it a facade of legality. Disgusting! They have to keep hoping they won’t be called to account because when they are it won’t be pretty.
@karen
“Aint that a b? I am so tired of our men being killed for white people. he even tried to help! When will we learn?????”
Good question. We’re often too anxious to engage them. Many of them don’t even see us as people.
LikeLike
“Michelle Alexander, author of “The New Jim Crow: Mass Incarceration in the Age of Colorblindness – 2013 George E. Kent Lecture”
LikeLike
“Elaine Brown – New Age Racism” – excellent 2008 lecture at Marlboro College:
LikeLike
Abagond:
It’s not just “whites” who “believe the system” in the Zimmerman case, a great majority of criminal law experts of all races appear to have affirmed that the rendered verdict was the correct one given the available evidence.
Contrastingly, what happened to George Stinney is nearly universally acknowledged as a grievous moral and ethical outrage.
By what basis do you suggest that “the system” should be similarly disbelieved in both of these cases?
LikeLike
Randy:
It’s not just “whites” who “believe the system” in the Zimmerman case, a great majority of criminal law experts of all races appear to have affirmed that the rendered verdict was the correct one given the available evidence.
Contrastingly, what happened to George Stinney is nearly universally acknowledged as a grievous moral and ethical outrage.
By what basis do you suggest that “the system” should be similarly disbelieved in both of these cases?
How do you think people in the time of George Stinney justified the verdict and the outcome of this?
Compare this to how people have justified the outcome of the Zimmerman trial. Also, throw in to the mix there is room for doubt at certain parts of this case too.
Isnt it possible that in years to come, people will look back and say that a grievous moral and ethical outrage occurred here too?
Racism was part of the fabric of society in Stinneys day and was of course more overt so and people were not going to be ostracised or condemned for behaving in such a way.
Racism still underpins much of todays society BUT people will face ostracism and condemnation for expressing it. It is also recognised as being morally unnacceptable however, people are only human and it is very likely that actions will in part be based on their own personal beliefs.
The only resolution is to make sure there is balance, fairness and consistency in any future trials, dont you think the most beneficial thing the whole judicial system should to is make sure that any jury consists of a cross representation of that society?
LikeLike
Omnipresent:
It’s possible, but how likely? The justice system in 2013, while yet quite imperfect, is far more transparent and accountable than it was in the 1940’s in South Carolina.
It’s a trivial matter for anyone to view the entire Zimmerman trial and inspect the evidence. I would guess that very few people in the Stinney case had that level of access.
Given the high level of exposure of this trial, and preponderance of legal experts who have concluded that the verdict followed appropriately from the evidence given, the simplest and most likely explanation (Occam’s Razor) is that people who object to the Zimmerman verdict are in error.
Omnipresent:
Society can be subdivided in any number of ways. You appear to believe that race is the most important of them. I seem to recall that in the Zimmerman trial a black prospective juror was dismissed by the prosecution owing to a perception of unfavorable political views.
LikeLike
Randy:
Society can be subdivided in any number of ways. You appear to believe that race is the most important of them. I seem to recall that in the Zimmerman trial a black prospective juror was dismissed by the prosecution owing to a perception of unfavorable political views.
This is not an answer to my question, only a response.
The question was dont you think the most beneficial thing the whole judicial system should to is make sure that any jury consists of a cross representation of that society?
Race is one element that a society can be subdivided in to but not the only one. I did not mention race in this instance but it is a factor that would be a consideration in any society.
LikeLike
“George Zimmerman is guilty.”
LikeLike
@ Randy
Are you saying most black criminal law experts think the verdict was correct? How do you know this? Which ones said that?
LikeLike
@ Randy
The Stinney case was all by the book, all perfectly legal, all within standard operating procedures. I am pretty sure that “the great majority of criminal law experts” of the time thought the verdict was “correct”. Remember, it took the jury just 10 minutes to come to a verdict of “guilty with no recommendation for mercy”, so for them it was a no-brainer. The jury has spoken! Quit bitching!
Many of the disastrous elements of the Stinney case are still in place:
– trying children as adults,
– terrible court-appointed lawyers,
– coerced police confessions,
– all-white juries and
– capital punishment.
LikeLike
@ Randy
1. No blacks on the jury.
2. Going-through-the-motion defence of black life.
3. Bad police work.
LikeLike
@ GoldFire
Man did that guy miss his calling. Here’s a guy who should have been a lawyer, or at least a police detective.
LikeLike
@ Abagond
Juror B29 was Black.
LikeLike
Randy:
I said:
Isnt it possible that in years to come, people will look back and say that a grievous moral and ethical outrage occurred here too?
You said: It’s possible, but how likely? The justice system in 2013, while yet quite imperfect, is far more transparent and accountable than it was in the 1940′s in South Carolina.
It’s a trivial matter for anyone to view the entire Zimmerman trial and inspect the evidence. I would guess that very few people in the Stinney case had that level of access.
A couple of comments up ^ Abagond has summed up what I was trying to say here:
@ Randy
The Stinney case was all by the book, all perfectly legal, all within standard operating procedures. I am pretty sure that “the great majority of criminal law experts” of the time thought the verdict was “correct”. Remember, it took the jury just 10 minutes to come to a verdict of “guilty with no recommendation for mercy”, so for them it was a no-brainer. The jury has spoken! Quit bitching!
Many of the disastrous elements of the Stinney case are still in place:
– trying children as adults,
– terrible court-appointed lawyers,
– coerced police confessions,
– all-white juries and
– capital punishment.
LikeLike
@King, @GoldFire…“Man did that guy miss his calling. Here’s a guy who should have been a lawyer, or at least a police detective.”
I know that’s right! (But we have to admit that, neither the legal profession, nor the PD want critical, seeking-the-truth thinker — because it’s not what’s true, it’s what you can prove!)
LikeLike
Abagond:
I have doubts that your assertion would be true, though we’ll likely never know for sure. Had the details of the Stinney trial been readily available to any and all, I would suspect that you would see objections from criminal law experts.
With the Zimmerman trial, the reaction has been nearly universal that the verdict followed from the evidence and testimony.
LikeLike
Abagond:
When and why should “blacks on the jury” make a difference? I can think of one reason: if non-black jurors were prejudicially interpreting the law or the evidence.
What is the basis for believing in prejudicial treatment in the Zimmerman trial?
In the absence of this bias, the function or necessity of “blacks on the jury” would seem to serve a purpose other than blind “justice”, perhaps that of “vengeance” which is quite different.
Peanut
Are you familiar with their basis for objection? Even juror B29 has stated that the verdict was inevitable.
http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/frame_game/2013/07/did_george_zimmerman_get_away_with_murder_no_juror_b29_is_being_framed.html
LikeLike
@ Randy
The Stinney verdict followed from the evidence and testimony too, probably in a far more direct and clear fashion since it only took the jury 10 minutes to come to a verdict, not 16 hours. Further, that verdict is still on the books, despite efforts to overturn it.
LikeLike
Randy:
I have addressed a comment to you further upthread – shall I repost it for you?
Also:-
Abagond said:
The Stinney case was all by the book, all perfectly legal, all within standard operating procedures. I am pretty sure that “the great majority of criminal law experts” of the time thought the verdict was “correct”.
Randy said: I have doubts that your assertion would be true, though we’ll likely never know for sure.
What are your doubts based on Randy? The fact remains that regardless, people who were in a position to affect change, sat on their hands and did nothing to prevent this. So, why is what happened then any different than potentially what has happened now?
LikeLike
Omnipresent:
Is this the question from upthread?
Given the number of demographic, cultural, political, and economic groups in the US, a true cross-section of society is impossible to empanel on a jury, so I wouldn’t say that it the “most beneficial thing” during the selection process.
Finding a reasonable cross-section seems a laudable goal, however:
1. Each court selects from a locally available pool, so not all cross-sections would predominate.
2. Lawyers strategically eliminate potential jurors, attempting to create a makeup favorable to their side. From my casual exposure to the process, they don’t appear to be working towards diversity as a goal.
LikeLike
@ Randy
You keep going on and on about objections from criminal experts yet when asked about them and your source you either pretend the question wasn’t asked or come up with a smart azz remark. Please stop using this as a means to support your basis when you can not even back it up.
Fact still remains you can find an expert to say just what you want or need them to so their opinions become irrelevant.
LikeLike
Randy:
Is this the question from upthread?
Yes
Given the number of demographic, cultural, political, and economic groups in the US, a true cross-section of society is impossible to empanel on a jury, so I wouldn’t say that it the “most beneficial thing” during the selection process.
Finding a reasonable cross-section seems a laudable goal, however:
A laudable goal. So you think it would be ‘admiriable’ if this was done but you dont have any faith in it? Dont you think it is essential to bring ‘balance’ and make different sections of society feel that they are represented and in turn, people on trial feel the system is fair?
I think it is a necessity, particularly in this day and age. Addressing and re-dressing balance about ensuring Equality is being practisced in all areas of society should start from the top down. And where better to ‘represent’ than in a court of law.
1. Each court selects from a locally available pool, so not all cross-sections would predominate.
I’m sure if the criteria for the pool was as all encompasing as it should be, there would be enough individuals to form a diverse jury.
2. Lawyers strategically eliminate potential jurors, attempting to create a makeup favorable to their side. From my casual exposure to the process, they don’t appear to be working towards diversity as a goal.
Dont you just see what you have said here? “Lawyers eliminate potential jurors…they dont appear to be working towards diversity as a goal”. Tell me again Randy how you think these paragons of society, these upholders of the ‘law’ would be any more willing to ‘do the right thing’ now if they have historically and, from there on, been found lacking?
Randy, if you were ‘accused’ of a crime where a PoC met their death, would you feel comfortable with a majority non white jury+ one mixed race person who identified as white?
Would you trust the law enough to ensure that the verdict was not biased?
LikeLike
@ Randy
Still waiting for how you know that most black criminal law experts said the Zimmerman verdict was “correct”.
LikeLike
Sharina and Abagond:
Looking back, my prior statement can be read as a claim that a great majority of black legal experts agree that the verdict followed from the evidence and testimony. I don’t have a survey of black legal experts to back up that claim.
Allow me to restate: a great majority of legal experts in general, including those from different races, appear to affirm the verdict.
A simple google search ought to verify this opinion, which I didn’t think this was in dispute.
Here are comments from presumed black legal experts from an article at afro.com:
Article: http://www.afro.com/sections/news/afro_briefs/story.htm?storyid=79174
LikeLike
Abagond:
I’m not an attorney and I wasn’t there, so I can only speculate. However, it does seem that plenty of reasonable doubt would have been available for the defense to exploit, including: thin circumstantial evidence, coerced confession from a minor, etc.
As you know, the bar for conviction is far higher than that for acquittal.
LikeLike
Omnipresent:
Trial lawyers are trying to win their cases, and will exploit any opportunity within the law to gain advantage. I wouldn’t suggest that the behavior of attorneys in a trial is any indication of how a fair system ought to be arranged.
Omnipresent:
Firstly, I think you’re mixing up your analogy. Zimmerman wasn’t black, so if you’re interpreting “jury of one’s peers” in a racial sense, the lack of a black jury member in this case wouldn’t be a problem.
Secondly, had you asked me this question years ago, I might have naively believed that racial composition of a jury didn’t matter much. This trial has disabused me of such idealism given the survey stats which Abagond posted regarding reactions to the verdict, grouped by self-reported race.
LikeLike
@ Randy
Even I have said second degree was a stretch so not desputing that, but you made a claim in which you shoukd be backing up. Not me doing a google search for you. Whether the expert is black or white or even asian is bot of issue here either. If you can’t back your claims then don’t make it.
LikeLike
Randy:
Firstly, I think you’re mixing up your analogy. Zimmerman wasn’t black, so if you’re interpreting “jury of one’s peers” in a racial sense, the lack of a black jury member in this case wouldn’t be a problem.
No , I am not mixing my analogies – I was asking how you would feel faced with a jury that was made up of people who, on paper, identified themselves as a different race to you. I made the assumption that you are not a PoC – perhaps I am wrong?. By asking this, I was trying to get a feel for how confident you REALLY are in the justice system considering a comment you made further up..
Given the high level of exposure of this trial, and preponderance of legal experts who have concluded that the verdict followed appropriately from the evidence given, the simplest and most likely explanation (Occam’s Razor) is that people who object to the Zimmerman verdict are in error.
Also, Secondly, had you asked me this question years ago, I might have naively believed that racial composition of a jury didn’t matter much. This trial has disabused me of such idealism given the survey stats which Abagond posted regarding reactions to the verdict, grouped by self-reported race.
So, its taken ONE case to make you come to this conclusion? A case where you keep on popping up stating things like It’s not just “whites” who “believe the system” in the Zimmerman case, a great majority of criminal law experts of all races appear to have affirmed that the rendered verdict was the correct one given the available evidence.
Your answers kind of show belief and support in the outcome of this case and the law in general but, yet when I put a scenario to you, about you, for the first time I think I have had a more ‘real’ response from you.
LikeLike
Sharina:
Fair enough, though in common debate it’s customary to accept some factual claims as being obvious or universally accepted enough that citations aren’t required.
You may not think that this situation meets that criteria, while I do. We can respectfully agree to disagree on that point.
Omnipresent:
I’m white, and you’ve made a good point here.
Omnipresent:
I suppose that one good example of something can illustrate a broader paradigm.
Abagond cited a survey which indicated that around 80% of black respondents disagreed with the Zimmerman verdict. If one acknowledges that most criminal law experts believe the not guilty verdict to be correct, and most black survey respondents believe it to be incorrect, then what does that suggest about a person’s chances for justice if they find themselves in a Zimmerman-like situation with black jurors?
(In considering this thought experiment, I’m acknowledging that jurors and survey respondents are exposed to different quantities of information by which to base their opinions)
LikeLike
@ Randy
We can agree to disagree but it still makes your claim invalid. You are speaking for a majority of people (no matter race) and concluding what they think or believe based on a quote by one man. Sorry but this is about as invalid as the majority white or black people arguments.
LikeLike
@ Randy
“Though in common debate it’s customary to accept some factual claims as being obvious or universally accepted enough that citations aren’t required.”—We weren’t debating to my knowledge, but rather I was pointing out a flaw. Consider it a curtousey or not. Now since you consider this a debate then I would like to make you aware that the point of a debate is not for me to accept what you day as true. Thus making it debatable. If you can’t back it then do not turn this into “its not me…its you” because it was you who made a claim that you were not adequately prepared to support and consider it to be accepted. As I stated you can get a legal expert like any expert to agree with either side of this.
LikeLike
There is a petition to exonerate little George, you must google “exonerate George Stinney” and you will see “make South Carolina redeem George Stinney”. There is a facebook page with that same title with all kind of helpful information posted. The owner of Pleroma Studio, Ray Brown is currently working with activists to get his name cleared. He is also making a movie titled 83 days the life of George Stinney. Please visit his page and sign the petition because what happened to this innocent child was DEAD WRONG.
LikeLike
George younger siblings Charles and Katherine are still living. They stated that George went home after he saw the girls to do homework, he never left the house after that. It makes me sick to my stomach to hear what happened to this poor boy, I even cried when I read the story. But rest assure the ones that did this to him WILL have to answer to GOD. At least little George is in a better place now.
LikeLike
Does anyone have any info on the alleged deathbed confession to these little girls’ murders? Is there any agency following up on that? And if it is true, shouldn’t George be pardoned automatically?
LikeLike
@Tee
Unfortunately for the US criminal justice system, they are masters at dragging their azz.
LikeLike
That young brother Josh Aiken’s youtube performance is powerful. This is so tragic.
LikeLike
[…] never imagined we’d remember them today with so much affection and sadness: Treyvon Martin, George Stinney, and Emmet […]
LikeLike
For those of you on here that are continuing to preach hate in your messages about this case, there is something that you should know and strongly consider – one of the main players in attempting to clear George Stinney, Jr.’s and his family’s name is a white person – me. We aren’t all racist, we aren’t all hate mongers. I fully agree that what happened in this case is blatant racism, that he was denied a fair trial, that he was most likely executed for something he did not do. But, if we continued to push the message of hate and distrust then we will never solve the deeper wounds. Healing has to start somewhere. Forgiveness has to start somewhere. I neither condone what happened nor will I ever act as though I understand what you as a people have or still go through. But what I will say is, I do not tolerate hate today, I am not doing what I am on this case voluntarily to further anyone’s agenda, I am not doing what I am doing so that people can continue (from either race) to belittle the other side. I am doing this because it is right. Can we look past the anger, the hatred, and the blame and instead focus on how we will make a difference and suggest solutions. Think of Dr. King and others and what they proposed and did. Their messages weren’t filled with hate, they were filled with hope and dreams. Let’s talk respect for each other. I realize that my be difficult but it is worth a shot to start with us and let it spread from there.
– James E. Moon, Esquire
LikeLike
Please then, tell us the update, status, prognosis and future plans on where this case is and how this case will develop. What steps are you taking?
Nobody said that everyone or all white persons are hate mongers. Why do you automatically assume that people are saying that and that it applies to you? In fact, I don’t see people doing that in the thread above. If you want people to forgive, you cannot accuse them of calling you a hatemonger and you also should share, at least a little bit, of what you are doing. Or is it confidential?
LikeLike
I agree Mr. Moon can you please update us on the status of the case?
LikeLike
[…] George Stinney (1944) – executed by South Carolina governor Olin D. Johnston, white, who went on to become a senator from 1945 to 1965. […]
LikeLike
Read this yesterday in my hometown paper yesterday: “Remembering George Stinney, Maybe he will finally get some justice”: http://www.charlestoncitypaper.com/charleston/remembering-george-stinney/Content?oid=4828211&utm_source=Newsletter&utm_medium=Email&utm_campaign=Daily
On Dec. 10, World Human Rights Day, peace activists and human rights activists held a vigil outside the Clarendon County Courthouse in Manning, where George Stinney was tried and sentenced in 1944. Among those speaking were South Carolina attorney Steve McKenzie, who is working to re-open the George Stinney case by the end of this year, and local activist and researcher George Frierson, who is seeking an exoneration for Stinney. A documentary film on the Stinney case is also in production, set for release in 2014. The vigil was part of a day of observance and remembrance, organized by the Southern Christian Leadership Conference in conjunction with the U.N. Mandate for Human Rights…
…In a recent interview for the Raw Story, McKenzie said that he hopes that affidavits from three new witnesses, one of which could provide an alibi for Stinney, would be enough to re-open the case.
“If we can get the case re-opened, we can go to the judge and say, ‘There wasn’t any reason to convict this child. There was no evidence to present to the jury. There was no transcript. This case needs to be re-opened. This is an injustice that needs to be righted.'”
It’s much too late for young George Stinney to receive any justice, but it’s not too late for this bloody old state to step forward and do the honorable thing.
LikeLike
Deputy Newman’s Interrogation notes:
“I was notified that the bodies had been found. I went down to where the bodies were at. I found Mary Emma she was rite [sic] at the edge of the ditch with four or five wounds on her head, on the other side of the ditch the Binnicker girl, were [sic] laying there with 4 or 5 wounds in her head, the bicycle the girls had were beside the little Binnicker girl. By information I received I arrested a boy by the name of George Stinney … he then made a confession and told me where a piece of iron about 15 inches long were, he said he put it in a ditch about 6 feet from the bicycle which was lying in the ditch.”
In George’s confession he TOLD THE DEPUTY WHERE TO FIND THE MURDER WEAPON.!!! That piece of information is ironclad proof that George committed the murders, for only the true perpetrator would have known the whereabouts of the murder weapon.–DUH. Further, the fact that George picked up a railroad spike and brought it with him to confront the white girl’s … demonstrated premeditation i.e. George knew what he was going to do if he didn’t get his way… long before he walked up on the little girls.
–George’s own parents NEVER proclaimed George was innocent of the murders
— The NAACP refused to get involved in this black male sexual depravity case.
–George NEVER once publicly proclaimed he was innocent — no one at that time came to George’s defense…knowing full well he was guilty
GEORGE WAS GUILTY AS HELL>> Rewriting history where blacks hv committed atrocities against white people is an ongoing campaign spearheaded by white liberals. I’m sick of it
http://theinjusticefile.blogspot.com/2012/08/george-stinney-negro-atrocity-being.html
LikeLike
@americans4justice
Actually researching the case goes a long way.
LikeLike
Judge overturns 1944 conviction of George Stinney
http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2014/12/judge-overturns-1944-conviction-of-george-stinney-executed-at-14-after-three-hour-trial/
LikeLike
@Bud Dhuu
Thank you. That is some good news.
LikeLike
@Bud Dhuu: You beat me to it but that is interesting all these many years. I don’t know how to feel about this. he was just a kid and convicted of this heinous crime and executed. That doesn’t seem like justice to me.
LikeLike
@Mary
I agree. Years and a life lost.
LikeLike
Well, in 2014 we had Lennon Lacy. Look how much “progress” we have made in 70 years.
LikeLike
@Jefe: The Lennon Lacy case needs an investigation. I was watching Melissa Harris Perry on last Sunday and this case was mentioned on the panel. There was mention of him 17 year old Lacy involved with a 31 year old white woman. My spidey senses are starting to tingle.
LikeLike
Lennon Lacy was found hung. They said a suicide but his family and many others don’t think that was the case.
LikeLike
I just read somewhere that Lacy’s grave was desecrated. Is that true? or just news gossip?
LikeLike
@shairnalr: I don’t know but i wouldn’t be surprised.
LikeLike
@Mary Burrell
When I first heard this story I thought it was murder. Something about it just did not sit right. I am glad the parents are pushing and they should get another autopsy report if possible.
LikeLike
If Lacy was involuntarily hanged there should be signs of a violent struggle. Were his knuckles and face bruised or his clothes torn? Was there any skin or blood under his fingernails? Were their marks on his wrists from being bound? Was there trauma to his head from being knocked out or signs that he was drugged? If not then it was likely suicide.
LikeLike
I finally find the autopsy report for Lennon Lacy and it is best the family get a separate one from out of town or something.
1. The autopsy says he was depressed over the recent death of his uncle. Why would the even be in a autopsy report and how can an autopsy report determine that from a dead body? So in that respect I have to agree with the brother on this.
2. Of the list of items that he was wearing they did not mention the white shoes he was wearing. Shoes that are too big for him and no one in his family seem to recognize.
3. There was a bump seen on the boys head by family and also by the guy preparing the guy for the funeral.
4. No swabs for DNA on the body to determine if it was possibly others dna on him.
http://www.newser.com/story/197327/autopsy-of-hanged-teen-offers-few-answers.html
LikeLike
found not find*
LikeLike
@Sharina
I had read that the shoes were 2 sizes too small for him, not too big. (Your link confirms that.)
Anyhow, I think Lennon Lacy probably needs a separate post, as it is not directly related to George Stinney. I only mentioned it here to illustrate how far we have come in 70 years.
LikeLike
@Jefe
Yikes. Terrible skim job on my part.
LikeLike
@Abagond
Will you be doing a post on Lennon Lacy?
LikeLike
@ Sharina
Yes, and also one on Christian terrorists.
LikeLike
@ Abagond
Thank you!
LikeLike