Here, in one handy post, are the main rules many if not most White Americans seem to apply when thinking about black people:
- All blacks are niggers. No matter how well-dressed, well-educated, well-spoken or well-anything, at bottom they are all the same. Note: Do not use the n-word out loud. Blacks are sensitive about it for some reason.
- Blacks are emotional thinkers. Well, except when they say bad things about each other. Then in that case they are being utterly objective and profound in their observations. The same goes for when they agree with white people. Otherwise they are blinded by race loyalty and hatred of whites. Or at least lack the education and intelligence to know what the hell they are talking about.
- Blacks imagine racism. All 40 million of them. They suffer from mass hallucinations. Well, all right, sometimes they are just being “oversensitive”. Racism is pretty much dead because whites say it is – and they should know!
- Blacks are born bad. When they do something bad, it is because they are black. If they do something good, it is an exception. That is why black drug dealers who support none of their 13 children by 5 different women are TRBC: Truly Representative of the Black Community. Pathological killers too. And any black person arrested on the 11 o’clock news. For whites it is the other way round: Jeffrey Dahmer? An exception. Isaac Newton? White people are so amazing!
- The stereotypes are true. When you see a black person who fits a stereotype, that proves it! Even if the black person in question is a character on television created by a white screenwriter. After all, why in the world would whites make this stuff up? There must be some truth to it. Whites know blacks better than blacks know themselves. It is not like most whites are still racist or something.
- Television gives a fair representation of blacks. Especially the parts where there are mostly black people on the screen. Black comedians, hip hop videos and BET all apply rigorous anthropological standards to their work, just like National Geographic. It is like what a PBS documentary is to white people.
- White cultural institutions are reasonably objective. The press, universities, high school history, etc, present a fair picture of blacks and Africa. They are untouched by racist thinking. Whites are neutral and objective.
- American society is more or less fair. Slavery was outlawed in 1865. Racism was outlawed in the 1960s. Therefore the police, courts, schools, hospitals, banks, labour market, housing market, Congress, the Supreme Court, the president, etc, are pretty much colour-blind and fair. That means whatever troubles blacks still have must be of their own making.
- Bootstrap Myth. Anyone can start from the bottom of American society and, with nothing more than hard work and good values, make it to the top – or at least out of poverty. If millions of blacks are still poor, it is due to laziness and bad character. What else could it be?
See also:
I so love your blog….
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Right, white killers like Anders Behring Breivik and Adam Lanza (and everyone else) are just insane, but the black guy on the 11 o’clock news somehow proves blacks are more violent than whites.
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And when white ppl kill multiple ppl its mental illness when its a black person or poc killing someone even if its one person they a terrorist[assata shakur]. The bootstrap myth, they use and then they go on about their black friend who pulled themselves up by their bootstrap..
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You are Sudoku for my brain. 😀 Keep up the good work!
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LOL yup! Pretty much. I love the way you Drop Science Abagond. Happy Juneteenth everyone!
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It was a struggle for me to convince my GF (white) about the impact of 40 acres and a mule, and how it basically made slavery perpetual for the black folks.
The conversation ended with a big fight saying “You hate us white people so much then why are you with me. That is a part of history that no one likes to talk about”.
She is one of the sanest white folks I know of.
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“Abagond @
#7: White cultural institutions are reasonably objective. The press, universities, high school history, etc, present a fair picture of blacks and Africa. They are untouched by racist thinking. Whites are neutral and objective.”
Linda says,
In looking at different articles about black immigrants and University, I came across this article, which kind of touches your #7 and a little of #8:
Here is an example of “neutral and objective” as to why American universities tend to admit more “foreign/immigrant black students” than black Americans
“The researchers made another startling discovery. They gathered what they regard as compelling anecdotal evidence that admissions chiefs at the colleges surveyed, who are mainly white, take different attitudes towards black students of different backgrounds.
Charles says this stereotyping sadly rang true.
She believes the essays would-be students write as part of their applications also had a strong influence. “Having a family pick up and leave Nigeria or Haiti, risking everything to come to the US to give their kids a good education, is a pretty compelling story. It can mistakenly be seen as ‘sexier’ than the African-American youngster growing up in south central Los Angeles, despite all the hurdles they have to get over,” she says.”
http://www.guardian.co.uk/education/2007/may/29/internationaleducationnews.highereducation
if this doesn’t show just how racial hatred of black Americans is so ingrained in the white American psyche, nothing does.
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Wow….all whites view all blacks this way. Real sad if you think that is the case. There is no reasoned analysis in this article.
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Yup, this is a good article. Way to go, Abagond!
@Peanut
Yes Affirmative Actions has benefited White women the most yet they want to turn around and blame things on us.
However I do believe that most White people think this way, sad to say. There are some who don’t think like that but the vast majority do think like this, And the ones who don’t think like that should address this issue too.
And if anyone on here disagrees with me, fine. Argue with me! I don’t care. It is a fact that MOST Whites think that we are niggers, emotional thinkgers, overreact etc.
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The bootstrap myth is spot on. As a second-generation Korean-American, I used to think that if my parents could make it then so should anyone else. However, it was only recently that I realized that my family wasn’t systematically oppressed for hundreds of years. It’s illogical to think that a group of people could recover by themselves after they’ve been oppressed for that long.
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@ RightFromYaad
And I said “all whites” where?
The links under “See also” go deeper on many of the points.
Beyond that, I recommend:
– “Faces At The Bottom Of The Well: The Permanence Of Racism” (1993) by Derrick Bell.
– “Racism Without Racists” (2010) by Eduardo Bonilla-Silva
– Get an intro psych book and look up prejudice.
Bell was a law professor at Harvard Law. Bonilla-Silva is a professor of sociology at Duke. They cover some of the very same points.
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Abagond,
All I have to say is that your writing is soo funny yet true. 😉
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whoa, the sarcasm needle was way off the mark! I love the truth being told, here.
I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again here, its going to get worse for black people in America.
once the rented negro gets out of office, there’s going to be a lot of retribution on white people’s mind and a, “we finally got OUR country back” attitude, when they see a familiar white face back in the white house and they breath a sigh of relief ( as if that is going change the trajectory of America’s , downward spiral. )
I want black people to watch white folks, very closely after a white man gets back into the white house, there’s going to be a smugness on white people’s face, when looking at a black person as to say, ( now what, your negro is out of office, now what are you going to do? ) what we’ve been doing all along, fighting racists, like yourself.
The irony of this attitude is, Obama has done nothing for the black community in regarding the black agenda, being the white power that be, won’t allow it.
He only attempted to “include” black people, instead if exclude black people, that every other president has done.
I won’t even go as far to say, that Obama has even tried to make things, equal among white and black people. I say again, he was not allowed to do anything that would bring about, equality between blacks and whites.
We have to brace ourselves, black people. The backlash is coming, so prepare yourself and your children, emotionally, physically and financially.
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All blacks are niggers. No matter how well-dressed, well-educated, well-spoken or well-anything, at bottom they are all the same. Note: Do not use the n-word out loud. Blacks are sensitive about it for some reason.
You could also say, “All blacks are a monolith.” It seems like we are all the same to white people. If there’s one who doesn’t fit their definition of “blackness”, that is unusual. And if there’s one who doesn’t think or feel the same way as white people, then he/she is uppity.
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Lokee,
It was a struggle for me to convince my GF (white) about the impact of 40 acres and a mule, and how it basically made slavery perpetual for the black folks.
The conversation ended with a big fight saying “You hate us white people so much then why are you with me. That is a part of history that no one likes to talk about”.
No offense, but it seems like white women are the most emotional thinkers when it comes to racism. Some are even spoiled to the point where if you call them out on their BS, they flip out and deny it outright.
What’s you’ve been through with your GF is similar with this conversation with a white woman and her white male friend about racism. It started when they made statements like “Why do blacks feel like we owe them something? Why don’t blacks get over slavery.” Keep in mind, those subjects came out of nowhere.
I proceeded to tell them as calmly as possible what the deal is. In almost no time, I was accused of being the “bad guy”, among other things, while they proceeded with more racist statements like “Blacks commit more crimes. That’s why so many of them are in prison” and “I’m scared of blacks. I would even be scared of you (me) if I saw you walking down the street. But I’m not racist.” The white male friend gave me the usual “Statistics don’t lie” and a ‘what if’ scenario; what would happen if he was in a black neighborhood in the middle of the night.
I ended up arguing with them even though I did my best to stay calm. Yet, I was accused of being racist and was told to get out of her sight because everything I said was hurtful and untrue.
To the rest,
Yeah, yeah. I know I’ve told this story before, but it’s still painful to know there are people, white included, who delight in being total punks.
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Good post.
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I have to say why even bother writing “many” or even “most” in your post anymore because you will always…always get that one deluded white person or white washed person who sees “all.”
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@ Brothawolf
I had not heard that story from you before so it was quite interesting to here it. I guess they attempted reverse psychology on you.
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@ Abagond: Happy Juneteenth.
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@ Brothawolf
I feel your pain, I really do. I’ve opted out of discussing race with white people face to face. Other than what I write on my blog, I just don’t do it. Print out a list of informative books and/or websites and keep multiple copies of those lists with you at all times. I just hand that ish out to anyone who insists on having me participate in those out of the blue kinds of conversations on race and racism.
@ sondis
I always advocate for POC living in the USA to get the heck out of dodge altogether. I have a life plan in place that will see me living out my days In Some Other Country. There is racism pretty much everywhere on this planet, but nothing so Special and Personal as racism in America. I’m tired of it, and I’m opting out.
Call me “la femme chocolat” and buy me flowers in the street because I remind you of Josephine Baker. That’s the kind of racism I can deal with.
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Awake BW:
“I always advocate for POC living in the USA to get the heck out of dodge altogether. I have a life plan in place that will see me living out my days In Some Other Country. There is racism pretty much everywhere on this planet, but nothing so Special and Personal as racism in America. I’m tired of it, and I’m opting out.”
Wait….i’ma coming with ya! @ : o O ) >
*Grabs bundle, attaches it to a stick and hoists it over my shoulder.
OK, Awake…you go that way and I’ll go this way…( Awake ) NO! we need to stick together! ( Sondis, oh alright…you got the stufff? ) ( yeah brotha, i got it, lets be getting on! )
2 hours later…..
( Sondis ) whew! girl..I’m tired as a run away slave, you sure you wanna leave? @ : o l ) >
( Awake ) Negro what?, do you know that i will cut you? ( Sondis ) nah, i was just playin, sista!
( Awake ) umm hmm.. whateva, c’mon lets go!
( Sondis )…. sigh alright…man my feet hurt…( Awake ) yo ass gone hurt if you don’t bring yo ass…. yes my beautiful black queen. @ : o l ) >
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@ Legion
And it brings me back to one of my first questions I believe I ever asked on this blog…what is acceptable blackness?
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Sharina:
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@ Sharina: You know that’s a good question.
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@ Lokee
I ended up marrying a White man, but he has never fought with me over bringing up racism, never told me I hate all White people or tried to silence me since I began talking about it. He listens, he thinks about it and maybe asks a few questions and it’s quite obvious he learns something from it, recognises some prejudices he may have and works on changing it.
@ Brothawolf
Yes, some White people love to bring up a topic like that out of nowhere so that they can say bad things about you and then accuse YOU of being negative and attacking them. I’ve experienced White people bringing up race out of nowhere only to say the most offensive things. Hope you’re not friends with those racists any more.
@ Kiwi
Ah, the old `I deserve an award for fulfilling the criteria of being a basically decent human being’. I never got anything for being one, but then again I am expected to be nice to all White people even when they are horrifically racist towards me, whereas they can treat everyone else however they see fit.
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Many Whites see us as N words, trust me. Have any of you guys read the comments Whites post about Blacks on the internet? The comments are horrible! No matter how famous, well dressed and rich we are, we will always be a n word to them. Many of them do believe in the stereotypes about us but they will never admit it, many of them do think it is in a Black person’s nature to be bad too. Trust me, I am going by experience and me observing the way MANY of Whites act and behave. And not all Whites are like that either.
@Sondis
I am with you on this one, Brotha. This is a very racist country and I am tired of it everyday. The situation for Blacks in America will get worse, trust me. This current generation of Black youth are lost and confused, trust me, I am a Black youth, so I know. Most of them believe in this colorblind bullshit that we are living in a ”post racial society” where race doesn’t matter and interracial dating is ”cool” and listening to garbage like Nicki Minaj and Lil Wayne mans you have ”swagger”. Man, will they get a wakeup call when they go out in the real world and experience racism! I don’t wish that on them but they need to wake up. White America is not out for the best interest of Black people. Heck, Black people aren’t out for the best interest of Blacks either! I don’t know what a lonely, young Black girl like me is to do?
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@Legion
In this case I partially agree with you.
Racism *may* have been a factor in that case, but we can at best treat it as a suspected case and there were likely other factors involved. We could not determine all the factors involved so determining that it was simply racism only and not other factors is a bit of a stretch of imagination.
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@Lokee,
That is part of the problem right there. People only want to think about history after it has been whitewashed.
But can one not see the problem? If you have any identity with the receiving end of the oppression (imagine if you are, say, a Seminole or Creek), then you simply don’t know what to make of yourself. That is the issue with your GF. If you bring it up, she feels like she is being oppressed in return as she is identifying to some extent with the original oppressor.
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my god man has nothing i said made sense?
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idk man how do i tell white people about micro agression and what is hurtful dude tell me please
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Can you post a Youtube link to the Onion video for this? It’s hilarious. Also the one about how a man wanted to assassinate the president, “But not because he’s Black or anything. Look, it’s not a black and white thing…” There’s also one about celebrating MLK day with the black and white footage.
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@ sondis
Thanks!
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Sure sharina…. ^_^
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Lmfao! I was just laughing to myself. I’m watching Hollywood shuffle, anyone remember this movie? it stars Robert Townsend. it still funny after all these years, timeless!
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About the bootstrap myth; considering that 8/10 black people are “not” poor, it would seem to be true.
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[…] The White Rules For Thinking About Black People […]
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Hahahaha! What i’ve noticed on the internet is that whenever black people gather to talk about the racism we face almost all the white input is always to say not all white people are like that. It’s their first and foremost statement. Trying to protect their crumbling and transparent self image. If they really believed that they wouldn’t have to go around proclaiming it all the time. They know the things that are said in those ‘White Room’ moments between friends family and co workers, they just didn’t know that WE know too, cos of y’know the structual and physical evidence we experience. It’s a dead giveaway being more upset about how they’re perceived than our pain.
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Iris,
Yes, some White people love to bring up a topic like that out of nowhere so that they can say bad things about you and then accuse YOU of being negative and attacking them. I’ve experienced White people bringing up race out of nowhere only to say the most offensive things. Hope you’re not friends with those racists any more.
And yet, they tell you to get over it. lol
Don’t worry. I don’t consider them friends. I don’t even consider them human beings. To me they are a gang of trolls.
The argument me and this “woman” had was in a chat room at a game site. I put “woman” in quotations because this person could be anyone. The next night she apologized, but she claims to not know why she was apologizing. I told her what it was, and yet, I was still wrong. She told me what she said was facts and I should just accept it. I refused because everything she said was wrong and hurtful and I told her. She didn’t want to hear it. And I didn’t want to hear her phony-baloney apology.
What is it with white people thinking they can talk smack to and about us and expect us to just like it or take it with a grain of salt? Are we supposed to just adore them for being total jerks like some low-grade, comedy club comedian who couldn’t get a job to save his/her life?
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Most people can act like decent human beings because of empathy – they can put themselves in another person’s shoes, or try as best they can. They can consider what the other person’s point of view and interests are and then act accordingly. It is why children can be so cruel – they lack empathy.
Many whites, when it comes to blacks, are incapable of empathy. Because that other point of view, those other interests, threaten their own self-image as good people.
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[…] giusta dei neri e dell’Africa. Sono esenti da un modo di pensare razzista. Fonte: https://abagond.wordpress.com/2013/06/19/the-white-rules-for-thinking-about-black-people/ Tradotto da Luo […]
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Here is the problem with your theory, the big bulk of people just don’t think about black people because they are busy living their lives. Secondly, you tell white people in this blog all the time, you tell us they can not emphasize, that they need to listen to black people and just shut up – half right, it’s called a conversation.
Just a modest proposal listen, say little and do much
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BadWolf,
Here’s a problem with your problem with the theory.
When white people DO think of black people, it’s usually within the confines of what is detailed above. At some point during the day, white people will think about black people, especially if they watch TV or read newspapers, especially the crime sections.
The problem with your last suggestion is that black people have been trying for years to talk to white people. What we’ve gotten in return was them telling us to shut up, stop whining, get over it, it’s all in our heads, etc. They can’t empathize mostly because they WON’T try.
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It is nothing more than rampant narcism to think skin color X goes around thinking about skin color Y. (This also goes for religion) Most people have busy lives and don’t have the time to invest in such nonsense.
Simply put you don’t brow beat people if you honestly expect to persuade them.
I know a Jewish man who convinced all his problems were because of anti-semitism and never took a hard look at himself because I can guarantee you he truly was an ahole for God’s sake even his own mom told him he was an ahole but he just couldn’t believe it.
Yes people are racist, bigoted and flawed and I include myself in that statement . Ninety percent of my problems are my problems and I own the solution because if you expect to change A, B, C then your an idiot.
The one person you can always change is yourself.
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BadWolf,
I didn’t say that it happens all the time. I said at some point during the day (though it could be stretching things a bit), some white people will think about black people, and when they do, they will think about them as described in this post. If they work with black people, a thought about the entire race will cross their minds. If they see black people on TV or in the newspaper, a thought about the entire race will cross their minds. If they see black people anywhere, they will think about black people, even if it’s for a mere nanosecond.
And what exactly is brow beating when it comes to the topic of race?
I agree that SOME problems are caused by individuals. I agree with that because I know I’m not perfect, and I’ve made mistakes. I take responsibility for them as I should. And I know no one can want to change an individual except that individual. Still, that doesn’t mean we should be quiet and let it pass. Just as they believe they have a “right” to be racist, we have the same right to counter that racism.
The mindset of racism is passed from the mental to the physical world and it leads to damages, not only to the victims, but to the racists as well, especially nowadays when there are people who can’t take anymore.
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[…] The White Rules For Thinking About Black People […]
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@ BadWolf
I am not trying to persuade white people of anything. Most of them are beyond hope:
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I am sorry, but white people do not get to have an opinion on Black people in my book. After all that Black people have endured at their hands for so long how dare they thing they get to decide who we are, or who we should be. That privilege belong solely within the domain of Black people.
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Sharina writes:
“I have to say why even bother writing “many” or even “most” in your post anymore because you will always…always get that one deluded white person or white washed person who sees “all.”
– – –
I think the words “many” or “most” probably ARE noticed often enough, but that they are sometimes deliberately ignored by those commenters who feel a need to derail a discussion and/or detract from the credibility of the statement itself, as well as from the person who is making it.
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I think a lot of what Abagond writes about is very perceptive, and I an fascinated by this site, even though I strongly disagree with many of the views expressed here. There is, for instance, still a tendancy to underrepresent minorities in a lot of mainstream media. I confess I hadn’t even really thought about it until I read some of your posts here. However, I think more representation would not necessarily ease racial tensions. I think tensions are more likely to get worse as whites in the U.S. internalize that they will become a minority in the near future. Notice that even liberal whites who nominally pay lip service to increasing racial equality will do all they can to live in a 90+% white+asian community and school district.
That said, this post is pretty much over the top. The U.S. just elected a black president. For the second time. You think most of the whites who voted for him thought he was a “N—-“? I admit to believing that most of the tenets of “racial realism” may be true from a biological perspective (though a lot of the proponents seem like KKK style meatheads unfortunately), and I would never have voted for Obama, but I still don’t go around even “thinking” the “N” word. I can’t even recall any people I’ve hung out with using that word as an epithet.
I don’t think blacks are born bad. I think on average many may be born with lower IQs. This is just on average and doesn’t dictate any conclusion for any individual. Someone with a lower IQ is more likely to commit many crimes. If I find evidence that the person in question, whatever their race, is intelligent, I automatically feel much more comfortable around them. Conservative thinkers like people who share their views. We are overjoyed to meet a thinking black person with similar views. You call these people “Uncle Toms”, but why would Republicans elect someone of any race who doesn’t agree with the principles of their party? However, if any black person doesn’t step in line and advocate government enforced handouts for minorities, he is branded a “house n___” by his own people. Incredible.
I don’t doubt that blacks experience continuing racism on many levels. However, I bet most black men or women would also get more scared seeing 2 strange black men dressed in gangster style clothes in a deserted alley than seeing 2 korean boys wearing the same clothes. Be honest with yourselves. Unless you can change the IQ scores and the crime statistics, it doesn’t end.
No, I don’t feel that “white cultural institutations are more or less fair”. They have been captured by Left wing nuts who want to enforce their world view on everyone. For a very significant amount of white people, their reality is being enraged by the mainstream media on a day to day basis because of this. They are not specifically mad at blacks. The truth is they don’t specifically think about blacks that much (as you have correctly perceived), but they are furious with liberal institutions that are killing the traditional family model and worried that transfer payments will only increase in the future with demographic trends (increasing government enforced net transfers from whites to minorities, without political leverage to prevent it, is a major concern).
The U.S. does not have enough money to pay our obligations as presently conceived. As we stagger towards a default on our national debt, watch tensions increase even more. Sad, but where I see us going.
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@brotthawolf: Blacks have this behavior you showed about whites ALL TIMES.
When define white people, the blacks as whole include the Scandinavians, whites from oriental-Europe, western-European countries with few or none guilty on slavery plus to this are the true enslavers: Spain, Holland, Englad,Portugal, Germany white americans and white latinos, simple ignoring those white people are not unified under a banner.
ATTENTION:I was SAID people from the PAST, not TODAY!!!
When blacks define us, think in an united skin-color, an all will go to hell, even the ones with no historic in slavery and/or living in Europe in poorest conditions.
When the blacks think in an pedophile, a racist, or a serial killer, always try search a white person (principally male ones).
Example:
USA nationwide was caught by surprise in see the responsible for DC shootings: TWO BLACK MEN in an old Camaro, not a white man in an van!!!
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Yeah this is so true. I for the longest time found myself getting caught in number two as a way of thinking about the black community; it’s really effed up, but it’s really drilled into you as a kid. Not that that’s at all a valid excuse. Essentially what I’m attempting say is yes dead on; we’re all taught at least one (normally more) of these as a kid.
Also if this is an inappropriate space for me to be commenting/taking space in the discussion let me know and I’ll butt out.
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What a moronic essay. Full of the most ignorant of paranoia and whacked-out silliness.
This is someone who, plainly, has never considered another point of view, because ALL AROUND you there’s OVERWHELMING evidence to refute the nitwittery threaded throughout this idiotic essay that wouldn’t pass a third-grade civics class.
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Abbas–Blacks don’t define white people. White people are the ones who came up with the definitions of who is white and who is not. So if you have a problem with the idea of a unified white race, blame whites not Blacks.
And the majority of pedophiles and serial killers are, in fact (in the United States, at least), white men. Sorry that recognition of this reality is disturbing to you.
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xPraetorious. .. as someone who has read many of abagond’s blog entries, I disagree with your opinion that he has never considered another point of view. Actually, I find your assertion rather absurd, given how abagond’s views on many topics have evolved over the years after having conversations with different people and being exposed to new forms of evidence.
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@ Abbas
This post is about White Americans, so bringing in Swedes and all the rest is a straw man.
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@ extinct
1. Good point about many whites not trusting the media – except in this case, those who do not are generally MORE RACIST than the media.
2. Obama is a bad counter example for #1 since to many blacks he is the perfect example of how whites will be racist against you no matter what you achieve – just because you are black .
You are also a bad example: you may not “think” the N-word, but you still think the meaning of that word and apply it to blacks, as made plain by your comment.
3. You say:
But then say:
Not a huge difference as far as I can see. Particularly since this sort of thinking leads to racial profiling.
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@ Abbas
I deleted a comment you just made for using the n-word.
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@abagond Sorry for that, but all that guys are serial killers. Nope, I not used such word. maybe from the site I copied. Is an african-american site.
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@abagond, I say swedes, yes, but because blacks generalize whites as an unique group.
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@abagond here:http://blackpeoria.wordpress.com/list-of-black-serial-killers/
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” many if not most White Americans”
Seems a rather strong generalization, given the data at hand. It would be more defensible to deal in what some white Americans think or go after a specific target.
And
3. Blacks imagine racism.
It should be trivially obvious that people imagine all sorts of things. This extends to SOME black people. I know you are attempting to combat generalizations (ironically by making them yourself), but I don’t see any dialectic in your post.
I have a funny story related to this. I gave a black friend a ride to the bank to cash a check. I always have my ID checked when I cash a check. It is bank policy, and I am glad that they do this in order to protect everyone. We are in the bank drive thru and they ask for his ID, as I’d expect. Well, on the way home, I heard endlessly about how the only reason they asked for his ID is because he is black and they don’t trust him and they are all racists.
He was obviously imagining things. I’ve relayed the story exactly.
It’s funny when commenters state white people have no right to judge the claims of racism by others because they haven’t been there. Really? I’m not equipped to see this guy was just overreacting?
See how it is possible to be specific about something and therefore make a stronger case against a behavior when it happens and not generalize to a group when it is not warranted? I guess that wouldn’t make good fodder for a blog though. Better to be inflammatory.
I’m sure my tone and disapproval will be taken as evidence that you are correct. I have read quite a few of your blog posts, and that is what Abagond does.
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qwerty. . .it is not at all an inappropriate generalization to note that most whites engage in the sort of racist thinking outlined in this post. You may not have the “data” to make generalizations such as these, but that doesn’t mean abagond also lacks that data. A Black person like him has information and experiences with racism that a white person like you doesn’t have.
I don’t see anything “funny” about your story. The fact is that banks discriminate against Black folks all the time by denying them loans and all sorts of other horrible things. The fact that your friend likely had been subjected to so much racism in other instances that he reacted with what was perhaps inappropriate paranoia in this one particular instance (that you have cherry picked for us) is not funny. It’s heartrending.
I am a white woman, and I am often subjected to sexist discrimination and harassment. Sexism and racism are very different, and I can’t know what it’s like to be subjected to racism because I’m white. But there are a few parallels. And I do know living in a misogynisitc society has made me very wary about a lot of different types of situations and very wary about a lot of different types of men. And most of the time my fears sadly turns out to be right on. My mistrust has been a necessary mechanism for me to survive. Of course, occasionally I will misfire and see a threat when it’s not there. But the fact that I have to be so paranoid is not funny; it is horrible; and the last thing I’d want is for some man to point out to me an instance in which another woman “imagined” sexism when it wasn’t there in a random, cherry-picked incident.
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Abagond:
These are generally well thought out responses on your part (and I appreciate that). So if anyone believes there might be scientific evidence for average IQ differences among the races, then they must be “racist”? Would someone who believes that West African blacks are on average better sprinters than whites also be “racist” in the same sense?
Maybe I can say, based on that, that blacks who feel this way are thinking in their head “cracker” every time they interact with me, because to me “cracker” connotes physical ineptitude (among other things).
Anyway, if we use your expanded definition of terms, I think maybe 99+% of all people, including blacks, could be said to be thinking the n word and “cracker” during their interactions with people, because they always have SOME predispositions that are racially linked. It’s just a matter of degree. Do you not agree, for instance, that black men tend to gravitate towards black women with the same or a lighter complexion?
If you accept that a variable is totally random, then profiling doesn’t make sense at all. If it isn’t random, then it is a question of efficiency vs. principle. If 90% of potential suicide bombers will be identifiably Muslim (this is an assumption just to give an example, no need to argue over specific numbers), does it make sense to spend extra time on profiling identifiable Muslims or must we spend an equal amount of time on everyone (including 80 year old women), even though this is less efficient and ultimately would end up in more people dying from attacks due to inefficient monitoring? So you see, profiling is not really a black and white issue (pun intended).
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sorry, should have used “extinct” as my handle above, for consistency. I don’t normally use it, though. Just how I feel sometimes.
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Biff/extinct. . .there’s scientific evidence for average IQ differences among races. There isn’t any scientific evidence, however, that IQ test scores (if one controls for other variables) correspond to anything in the real world or predict anything besides how good a person is at taking IQ tests. Not to mention the fact that IQ tests were created by middle class, highly educated white people and are culturally biased to give middle class, highly educated white people better results than most people of color. In other words, these tests are classist and racist. They are riddled with problems and are hardly objective, scientific instruments for determining someone’s innate mental capacity or learning ability.
In terms of your commentary about the n-word and “cracker,” there actually have been studies that show that white people are more prejudiced toward Blacks than Black folks are to whites. So Black people are actually less likely than whites to be thinking of others in negative, racialized terms.
Finally, the fact that you’re defending racial profiling as sometimes justifiable, given how many people of color spend the better parts of their lives in prison and how many are murdered by the police due to their race, is simply unconscionable, Whites are responsible for the majority of war (through the arms trade), economic exploitation, and environmental destruction in the world. White-dominated nations possess the vast majority of nuclear weapons. It is white violence and white greed that threatens the survival of the human race. .. not anything people of color are doing. And yet, rather than white people owning our behavior and ceasing the destructive path we are going down. . .we blame people of color for social ills and our white-run legal system disproportionately arrests them, then disproportionately takes them to trial, then disproportionately convicts them, then disproportionately executes them. Racial profiling leads to people of color spending years in prison for minor drug offenses while white people who do the same things walk away with a slap on the wrist. Given all this, I think it’s reprehensible that you are concerned about the ability of a white-run police state to “efficiently” monitor its inhabitants by sometimes using racial profiling. That you do so merely reveals your white privilege: your belief that we can trust law enforcement to do the right thing and “protect” us from violence.
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@Becca, Extinct and all White commenters(not the trolls)
Abagond is not a racist. This blog is for Blacks and minorities who want to express their views on racism, internalized racism and inequality facing minorities in America. You will never know how it’s like to be discriminated against or stereotyped or followed by the police in public etc because Caucasians are privileged in America whether you guys realize it or not.
@Becca
Great points and I appreciate your honesty.
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@ Adeen
“…Abagond is not a racist…”
Perhaps you should familiarise yourself with Abagond’s past responses to this accusation…It may surprise you…
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Thank you Adeen, and I agree that I (like all whites) have white privilege. I will never know what it’s like to be the target of racism.
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Becca,
It is horrible. Plus, if a woman isn’t paranoid and doesn’t treat every man like a potential rapist, murderer, or harasser and then something happens to her, she gets blamed for it.
Like in the Stubenville rape case. Or in the case of racism, like Trayvon Martin.
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Becca:
Actually, it’s been proven that these racist IQ tests written by middle age white men actually discriminate in favor of ESL East Asian immigrants, since they do so much better on the tests than White people do.
Also, of course SATs and other standardized tests are all racist and predict nothing. And you actually believe this? If you throw out every shred of evidence as “racist”, it’s impossible to have a logical argument, not that that’s what you actually wanted.
All I will say is that people that believe this way should be working on developing a “fairer” test of intelligence that when translated into different languages could be used all around the world to show that blacks do not have lower intelligence on average than other races (not the joke test on ebonics I’ve seen, but a comprehensive test that could be translated into different languages and produce similar results in sub-saharan African and Shanghai). This single act would do more than all this discussion about racisim to help convince white people that their prejudices are unfounded and improve black people’s lives. It’s quite amazing that no one has done this yet, isn’t it?
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“And I do know living in a misogynisitc society has made me very wary about a lot of different types of situations and very wary about a lot of different types of men.” With all due respect, this is a completely ridiculous statement. Men and women are different physically. Of course women have to watch out more. This is a fact of life that has been true throughout human history. Tell me about one civization that exists where women don’t have to be wary.
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Becca,
There was no data in Abagond’s post, just his subjective experience.
“Funny” was meant more in the terms of ridiculous or ludicrous. Yes, it is ludicrous to allow past experiences to so color your perceptions that you see racism when a bank teller asks for ID when cashing a check. If allowing past experience to make it so you think that following obvious bank policy is racism is not ridiculous, then what would be ridiculous thought? Within your belief system, is it possible for a black person to claim racism in a ridiculous manner when it is obviously not present? If someone is obviously imagining something, is it ever okay to express an opinion to the contrary?
I was not “cherry picking” I was countering Abagond’s blanket statements by citing something specific. I stated that some black people do imagine racism, and I purposefully gave an anecdote where that was obviously the case. I picked my example because the claim of racism was based upon something that we should all be familiar with and realize it is not related to race.
Please notice I did not in anyway state that black people do not experience real racism.
Becca, I think you are afraid to disagree with any specific black person (so long as they come across as somewhat liberal and enlightened or repeat the buzzwords that you are familiar with) or anyone claiming to be victimized. And the fact that you think our society is “woman hating” (what misogyny means) speaks volumes. We obviously do not live in a society that hates women. I object to a discourse which is dominated by those that can claim greater victim status and one in which the words of said victims cannot be questioned by those outside their group. It’s just bullshit, and should be an obvious dead end to any reasoned discussion.
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biff, just because Asian Americans do better on IQ tests than whites doesn’t mean IQ tests aren’t still culturally biased, classist, and racist. And yeah, SAT tests are racist, too. I actually believe that.
I also don’t know if I think it’s possible to come up with a “fairer” IQ test. In any event, I don’t consider the concept of IQ to be useful or really that scientifically valid. People who are curious to understand my views on why “intelligence” as it is generally conceived is a bogus concept should check out the book by Stephen Jay Gould The Mismeasure of Man. It’s really good and ifluenced my thinking a lot on this topic.
In terms of your comment about women having to be wary, biff, I completely disagree. I don’t agree that the innate, biological differences between men and women are that major. I also don’t think that patriarchy is inevitable or a “fact of life,” although I realize it has been very effective at spreading itself across the globe. In a just society, women would have nothing to fear from men.
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qwerty, it’s not that I’m “afraid to disagree with any specific black person.” I disagree with specific black people about all sorts of things. Just not on the topic of racism. And it’s not that I’m holding back because of fear. Rather, I deliberately CHOOSE to not disagree with Black people’s analysis of racism because a) I recognize Black people know more about racism than me because they are its targets and I’m not and b) I’m committed to assisting Black people in their struggle to end white supremacy. Actually, I believe I have an ethical obligation to listen to what Black people tell me about racism, take their experiences seriously, and do what I can to be useful to them in their struggle. I don’t expect you to understand this or why I’m motivated to do this.
Also, if you think Black people face real racism, maybe you could focus on doing something about that instead of telling random anecdotes from your life that are intended to throw Black people’s credibility into doubt by making them seem “ludicrous” and “ridiculous.”
We DO live in a woman-hating society. If you disagree with that, fine. But personally, I believe that we live in a unjust, hierarchical society where people with certain attributes are subjected to greater levels of violence, poverty, and general mistreatment. Women, people of color, children, LGBT folks, people with disabilities, undocumented immigrants, and many other types of people are oppressed in our society. And I don’t merely support a discourse where oppressed people (or as you would call it, those that can claim greater “victim status”) dominate the conversation; I support a discourse that only INCLUDES oppressed people and those who have shown themselves to be useful allies to us. If I had a blog, someone with your opinions would have been immediately banned after your first comment because you are doing nothing useful to advance the struggle against oppression. But this is abagond’s blog: so, his rules.
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Becca, this is brilliant feminist thought here. The struggle in dealing with opposing view points can be won by blocking out all such view points. I’m in shock and in awe.
So what if men are going to college less than women now, earning less money for those under 30, much more likely to commit suicide, opt out of society.. doesn’t matter, as long as some males are still in positions of power, must be the evil patriarchy. Press on, there are still some kids being born in wedlock and still some marriages not ending in divorce. So there is still work to be done!
Abagond’s tolerance for opposing view points and willing to try to come up with good faith responses is something I respect quite a bit–I spend time arguing, e.g., about how white people thing, per this post, because he will at least read and think about what I’ve posted–I don’t get that feeling with you at all, Becca. Abagond just doesn’t understand how different femthink is from his reasonableness.. Gender relations really are at the root of more societal problems we now face than race relations.. but, we as a society are not allowed to question the destruction of the evil patriarchy that somehow thrived in almost every advanced civilization that has ever existed, and is also evident in other primates. Still waiting for animal rights activists to team up with feminists to liberate those poor female baboons…
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Got it. You will not disagree about racism with any specific black person. A black person could tell you something ridiculous about racism, something that defies basic logic, and you would just nod and soak it in. That is awful, Becca.
Is this what black people want? What Becca is discussing is called patronizing someone. Yeah, she can dress it up with some 4 dollar words or PC spin, but that is what it is. It is the ability to turn your mind off and just soak in whatever some says and not disagree. Do black people really want that on this issue? Do they want the ability to say anything related to race (even gooblie gook) and have someone like Becca nod and note how interesting it it?
Becca, what about when two different black people tell you two different takes on racism in America? If you cannot disagree with or parse their statements, then how can possibly decide between the two contradictory statements? What about a black person that would agree with me somewhat, would agree that black people sometimes imagine racism? Do you think that it is possible for a black person to think that? Ok, what would you do in that situation?
I’m hammering on this because you are being either vacuous or disingenuous on this issue. I think you are parroting what you believe it is polite to think or say. You obviously can and do disagree with black people (remember I am speaking of a group of individuals and not some monolith) on the subject of racism. If you do not, then you are easily thrown into contradictory and impossible scenarios.
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This is the ultimate bad argument. You know nothing of me. You are speculating. I was speaking of a single obvious example to show that the phenomenon exists. You are stating that I must not care at all, or else I wouldn’t have typed something out on the internet, I would be do something else that you approve of.
And if what they tell you seems utterly wrong on its face, you will continue on helping them in whatever way you can. That is patronizing.
I’m sorry that you have been around such lousy people that made you believe that society at large hates you because of your sex. By the way, most men do not commit violent crimes and most victims of violence are men. Just look up some crime stats. By your definition then, does society also hate men?
And once you are done analyzing, are the people you purposefully exclude supposed to accept your claims uncritically? I’m assuming the ones that would be excluded would be cis-gendered, heterosexual, white men without any obvious hardships that you could pick out. It’s just a dead end, Becca.
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1. As Kwamla pointed out, I am racist:
In my view so are most Americans, like over 90%, whatever their race. The racism of blacks, however, is mainly directed against themselves. Unlike what many whites seem to assume, it is not a mirror image of white racism. That completely misunderstands the position that blacks find themselves in in America.
2. “It can’t be racist because it’s true”. I do not buy that. Racism is the belief that one race is naturally better than another, regardless of whether that belief is true or false (or partly true and partly false).
3. I am not asking whites or anyone to turn off their brains. On the contrary, I want everyone to be aware of all the unspoken racist ideas that guide American/Anglo/Western thinking. I want them to take their brains OFF autopilot.
4. This post is based on my observation and thinking. I throw it out there for comment. I am not trying to “prove” something. This is a blog, not a scholarly journal.
5. For those who want the “data”, the science, on current American racism, I highly recommend “Racism Without Racists” (2010) by Eduardo Bonilla-Silva.
6. I agree with Becca: Anyone who truly wants to understand IQ tests and race should read “The Mismeasure of Man” by Stephen Jay Gould, at least for starters.
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“Becca, what about when two different black people tell you two different takes on racism in America?”
My point was that I don’t waste Black people’s time by ARTICULATING my objections if I disagree with their views on racism. Obviously, I disagree with Clarence Thomas’s and Alan Keyes’s overall beliefs about the nature of racism in America. But I don’t see it as my place as a white person to argue with Black people about the racism they experience. . .or with any of their opinions about racism, frankly. There are plenty of racist white people who I can criticize instead, and this is a much more effective use of my time and energy. I’m able to choose which of my thoughts are worth expressing and which of them are not.
“You are stating that I must not care at all, or else I wouldn’t have typed something out on the internet, I would be do something else that you approve of.”
Actually, no. I said that if you, in fact, DO care about fighting racism (I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt and say that you do), please use the time that you’re using to criticize people of color on this blog and instead use it for something productive that actually helps dismantle white supremacy. I’m making no assumptions about who you are or what you do when you are not on this website. I am merely noting that for someone who cares about fighting racism what you are doing now is tactically misguided and counterproductive.
“And once you are done analyzing, are the people you purposefully exclude supposed to accept your claims uncritically?”
I couldn’t care less whether they accept my claims or not. My goal in politics is to dismantle systems of oppression, not to win arguments. The way oppressed people overcome their oppression is by organizing amongst ourselves and then fighting back against our oppressors on every possible front using every possible tactic. It doesn’t happen through winning online debates with random anonymous critics.
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“I am merely noting that for someone who cares about fighting racism what you are doing now is tactically misguided and counterproductive.”
and
“The way oppressed people overcome their oppression is by organizing amongst ourselves and then fighting back against our oppressors on every possible front using every possible tactic. It doesn’t happen through winning online debates with random anonymous critics.”
The path to hell is paved with good intentions. Thinking in terms of tactics instead of reality and being welling to use every possible tactic is simply nauseating to me.
I can have multiple concerns. I am concerned with people that espouse views such as yours above. It is simply a scary way to think. More than anything, I’ve been opposing people that go about things and think like yourself. I’ll continue to oppose that, which will only allow you one more trinket on your oppression charm bracelet. Interestingly, you will likely take me disagreeing with how you approach this as further evidence that you have been right all along. That is the definition of a nonfalsifiable position, and is a sign of its weakness.
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qwerty,
“I’m sorry that you have been around such lousy people that made you believe that society at large hates you because of your sex. By the way, most men do not commit violent crimes and most victims of violence are men. Just look up some crime stats. By your definition then, does society also hate men?”
You have to be kidding?
Society at large has shown its hatred of women by constantly blaming them for being raped or beaten by men. Society has shown its hatred by paying women less than men. Society has shown its hatred by blaming the decline of the family on women’s increased rights and equality.
And it only gets worse when we go back in time.
Men might be the victim of more violent crimes but they aren’t being targeted because of their gender. Men aren’t and have never been treated as second class citizens or second class human beings.
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Re: the Mismeasure of Man, read parts of it in college. Have no special awe of Harvard profs, and many of the ones I encountered during my time there were slaves to their ideological motivations and did their best to indoctrinate students accordingly. Gould basically wants to deny that anything like general intelligence, “g”, exists or can be tested… do we really believe that? Sure, the practical difference between 120 vs. 150 IQ may not be that clear (I have a white friend I grew up with who purported to have a 150 IQ–he had some serious issues and worked a lot of odd jobs before getting on the fed. gov. gravy train and getting disability benefits for being a “violent schizophrenic”–though I don’t recall ever having a real fight with him in all the years we hung out as boys), but 120 and 90 IQ, it’s pretty clear this distinction has some serious meaning…
Some selected criticisms of MmM (obviously, you can find laudatory reviews as well, usually from people who have ideological motivations):
In a review of The Mismeasure of Man, Bernard Davis, professor of microbiology at Harvard Medical School, said that Gould erected a straw man argument based upon incorrectly defined key terms — specifically “reification” — which Gould furthered with a “highly selective” presentation of statistical data, all motivated more by politics than by science.[14] That Philip Morrison’s laudatory book review of The Mismeasure of Man in Scientific American, was written and published because the editors of the journal had “long seen the study of the genetics of intelligence as a threat to social justice.” Davis also criticized the popular-press and the literary-journal book reviews of The Mismeasure of Man as generally approbatory; whereas, most scientific-journal book reviews were generally critical.
Reviewing the book, Stephen F. Blinkhorn, a senior lecturer in psychology at the University of Hertfordshire, wrote that The Mismeasure of Man was “a masterpiece of propaganda” that selectively juxtaposed data to further a political agenda.[20] Psychologist Lloyd Humphreys, then editor-in-chief of The American Journal of Psychology and Psychological Bulletin, wrote that The Mismeasure of Man was “science fiction” and “political propaganda”, and that Gould had misrepresented the views of Alfred Binet, Godfrey Thomson, and Lewis Terman.[21]
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Solesearch,
Society does not do those things. Only specific, ugly people would ever accuse a rape victim of being to blame for their rape. I think you need to lick your finger and stick it in the wind more often, so to speak, so as to get a sense of what most people actually think. My male friends universally HATE rapists. I have heard many men state that if a female they cared about were raped, then they would attempt to kill the rapist. Please do me a favor and google “man saves woman from rapist”. You will read 1,000s of stories where random strangers (men) put themselves in mortal danger to save someone they did not know from this crime. You can cherry pick examples, as I was accused of, but I don’t think anyone that has their head in the real world could honestly claim that society excuses rape or that most men excuse rape. Most LEO, judges, and prosecuting attorneys that put rapists behind by bars are men. Please take the world from another perspective as often as you can.
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Qwerty,
A lot of specific people in our society blame women when they are assaulted by men.
I’d suggest you get your head out of the sand.
Have you not followed the investigation into rape in the military? Of the numerous service women who were diagnosed with personality disorders and discharged from the military after accusing their fellows in arms of rape?
Did you not read the recent statement by one such victim who said if she had it all to do again she would have not reported it?
Did you not watch the media coverage of the Stubenville rape trial? Did you not notice how the victim was blamed and threatened for ruining the lives of those two promising young men?
Are you not aware of the discrepancy between actual assaults and reported assaults caused by the women being treated as liars and complicit in their assaults?
http://abcnews.go.com/m/blogEntry?id=19088166&ref=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com%2Fsearch%3Fei%3D7DHMUeCvHYH68gS4joGACQ%26q%3Dwhy%2Bare%2Bwomen%2Bafraid%2Bto%2Breport%2Babuse%26oq%3Dwomen%2Bafraid%2Bto%2Brepo%26gs_l%3Dmobile-gws-serp.1.0.0i22i30l2.562686.575845.0.578526.30.21.4.5.5.1.392.3073.3j15j2j1.21.0…0.0…1c.1.18.mobile-gws-serp.oD17xPrHv_U
http://thinkprogress.org/security/2013/06/09/2126451/military-rape-survivor-re-victimized/?mobile=wp
http://mobile.alternet.org/alternet/#!/entry/serena-williams-blames-steubenville-rape-victim-for-putting-herself-in,51c1fbf7da27f5d9d0e429b8
http://gawker.com/5991003/cnn-reports-on-the-promising-future-of-the-steubenville-rapists-who-are-very-good-students
Did you know women were being evicted for calling the police on their abusive partners?
http://www.aclu.org/blog/womens-rights-lgbt-rights-racial-justice-criminal-law-reform/shut-or-get-out-pa-city-punishes
If you measure the wind, by asking your male friends if they love or hate rapists then I suggest it’s you who needs to consider other perspectives.
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[…] The White Rules For Thinking About Black People […]
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[…] The White Rules For Thinking About Black People […]
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Your blog is THE TRUTH.
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Candi:
You’re telling the truth, Ruth. @ : o l ) >
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@Abagond to @Candi
“Here, in one handy post, are the main rules many if not most White Americans seem to apply when thinking about black people: All blacks are niggers. No matter how well-dressed, well-educated, well-spoken or well-anything, at bottom they are all the same. Note: Do not use the n-word out loud. Blacks are sensitive about it for […]”
@ Abagond So you need urgently revise any pre-conceptions you’ve about white people;
Irony of not some black people call each other as n******. Explain-me this?
@candi @ Abagond
Wrong. This is the vision of an african-american. Try be white for one year to see if the things are so ease to whites. You be shocked how your pre-conceptions are wrong!
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This article is so contradictory it’s laughable. The general point you’re making, as I see it, is that (most, many, whatever vague qualifier you want to use to imply the vast majority) don’t see blacks as individuals but rather as some monolithic group with the same sets of values, ideas, and actions, and that blacks are only individuals when their ideas or actions resonate true with the monolithic white American values. The implication of this is that it’s wrong to assign values and attributes to one group (in this case, blacks) while assign values and attributes to another group (whites). It’s a trick used by some writers advocating for a particular group (blacks, feminists, baseball fans, whatever) though obviously not all writers. The common defense to this accusation is, “who are you disregard my experiences.” That’s a fair point, but then again “who are you to disregard mine?”
I’m going to make a disclaimer here, I’m a white male in my mid 20’s that’s lived in America my whole life. These facts color my experiences and these experiences color my opinions. That’s human nature. Every single one of us is influenced by our background and our values, opinions, and beliefs are influenced by our experiences. Because of this fact we have a limited ability to understand the experiences of people who are different than us (note: this means EVERYONE as no two people are identical in terms of background and experiences). I do not propose to have the first inkling as to what it’s like to live as a black person in this country. I don’t, and can’t know how they experience the world and how the world treats them. I certainly can’t apply any judgment about characteristics of blacks in general nor can I assume that blacks share any of the same characteristics. The best I can do is use my experiences with black people I’ve known, friends, acquaintances, co-workers, to infer very general qualities about those individual people. In my experience, I’ve found some to be hard working, some to be lazy, some to be great fathers, some to be deadbeat dads, and no underlying trend to lump any particular characteristic to the group, all of them, most of them, many of them, or even just some of them. By the same token, you can’t pretend you have any idea about the experiences I’ve had as a white male in this world, how those experiences have informed my world view, and how those define my characteristics, and even if you could you certainly couldn’t apply them to my brother, my father, some random white guy in Topeka, Kansas, or anyone. Maybe the individualism argument sounds like a cop-out, but in my life through my job I’ve dealt with many different people from many different backgrounds and I’ve found that there isn’t any one general rule that I can apply to any one group based on that. I’m constantly surprised, pleasantly and otherwise, by the actions of people who are members of a certain group that I’ve stopped making assumptions of those groups all together.
Before anyone gets all riled up, I realize I’m nitpicking here. I know Abagond never claimed all white people hold these beliefs or behave in this manner. I also realize that these are purely observations based on his experiences and that adding to many qualifiers such as “in my experience, I have observed, some of the white people I’ve encountered” water down the points to the point that he’s not actually saying anything. At the same time, it’s being dismissive of the individual experiences of others while championing the individual experiences a members of a certain group. Based on skimming around on this blog, I’m assuming the goal is to talk about race in a proactive manner, however that can only be achieved once we realize the limitations of our own experiences and start to try to understand how the experiences of others have impacted their world view. We can never completely do that (it’s not in our nature as humans), but the more we try the more productive we’ll be in achieving our goal.
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@ Bogey44
If I were a sociologist I could do a survey and tell you the percentages, within a margin of error, of how many white people do each of the nine things. Some are probably over 80%, some might be as low as 10%, but come up enough to be worth talking about. BUT none of that would tell you whether YOU do it. Only you can know that. Do not get hung up on how many whites do x – get hung up on whether YOU do it and whether it is a good thing. You are the only one you can change. Emancipate yourself from mental slavery.
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@ Abbas
“When define white people, the blacks as whole include the Scandinavians, whites from oriental-Europe, western-European countries with few or none guilty on slavery plus to this are the true enslavers”
Since I’m not sure if you’re saying, Scandinavians: (Sweden, Denmark/Norway), were not involved in the Trans-Atlantic African Slave Trade, I just want to inform you that they did, and even had slave colonies in the Caribbean.
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@Ubuntu I said about black peole genralizing , thinking white people are an united group.
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@ Abbas
You cannot now find black people culpable for an institution, set up by white people for the benefit of white people and to the detriment of black people and now complain that black sees white people as a monolith. Black people did not construct “race” or “white race”, white people did; maybe it was the elite of Europe and the Americas who conceived it, but their masses bought into hook, line and sinker. No matter how wrenched the lives were/is of the many European ethnic and national groups, when they left their homelands for shores colonized by their earlier predecessors, they became “WHITE” – they cease to be French, Scots, Swedes, English, Hungarians, Poles, Germans and Russians etc. Their cargo of wretchedness may have continued in the new lands, and since this discussion is about the United States of America, in order to accepted in this new club call “white/whiteness,” one of the governing tenets was/is, you had/have to subscribe to white/white supremacy, meaning, no matter how wretched your life continued/continues to be, you, the white person, is/was still better and superior to the negroes/black – it’s still a part of the cultural legacy.
It’s befuddling that you are accusing blacks as seeing whites a monolith. “Blacks” were never “Blacks” in Africa; their ethnic backgrounds were/are as varied as those of Europe, even more so; and since the “bulk” of those transferred from that continent (Africa) to the Americas were primarily from West and Central Africa – they could have been Yorubas, Fulanis, Hausa, Igbo, Arkan, Ijaw, Luba, Mongo, Kongo, Nbundo etc; many, with centuries of ethnic conflicts, no different from those of Europe. However, when their “Queen E 2 type vessel ride” ended and disgorged them on docks of other peoples’ choice; they became negroes – white peoples’ term (blacks – noir, svart, zwart, schwarz – ascribing characteristics, too numerous to enumerate, that are still with us today.
Familiarize yourself with the writings of early America on this issue, and especially the laws; racial distinctions were clearly made – again, not by black people, but by white people with the support of other white people.
Now, it may be unfair to those who see themselves as something else – ethnic, as being the descendants of whatever national European entity or religious affiliation, but that’s the price one pays to be a member of this unforgiving club call “white/whiteness”
When you get a moment, I would recommend you watch these videos on – “The Colour of Fear”. They may give you a clearer understanding of how whiteness is perceived by people of colour and some white people’s reaction to them.
(http://vimeo.com/40602451)
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-wj95cCTWwA)
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Advantage? Man, you’re listen too much those black supremacists… I has lived in an trailer park, without job, depending on welfare, only two years ago I obtained an well-paid job. I never forgotten of the difficulties and problems I passed when very poor. My “whiteness” has not even been advantage, in reality has been an trouble, white some creeps wanting beating me only because my skin-color.
This “white superiority/white advantage” is nothing than bullshit!
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“This “white superiority/white advantage” is nothing than bullshit!”
*************
Really?
Abbas
This white guy, Joshua Solomon, felt the same way as you, but just to be sure he took it further and actually disguised himself so that people would think he was black instead of white. He found out some things, things that YOU apparently have yet to discover.
http://www.mdcbowen.org/p2/rm/white/solomon.html
Perhaps Abagond might do a post about this person one day..
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Abbas
1. White privilege is NOT the same as class privilege.
2. From what you said, some people only WANTED to beat you up because of your color. It sounds like they never did. Yet, imagine being beaten up psychologically and emotionally everyday by a racist society. Imagine people actually beating you or make you feel like dirt because of your color more than once.
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@ Matari
Great suggestion! Thanks. I think you suggested it before, but this would be a good time to do it with the 50th anniversary of King’s Dream coming up.
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Abagond
Maybe you’ll also consider doing a post on Mr. Neely Fuller?
The esteemed Mr. Fuller actually interviewed Joshua Solomon. As with all of Mr. Fuller’s presentations, it was a very revealing and constructive experience. I believe there’s a written transcript of that recorded meeting with JS somewhere online.
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@Matari
So sorry for him, but this not refute my point.
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@Brottawolf I has beaten up just because my skin colour , yes, a group of young blacks shouting the r-word and ,many other anti-white slurs at me. they kicked me many times, they has spit on me.
Yet I not condemned the entire black race for something an bunch of blacks done against me. Why the black people cannot do the same? Why guiltry all white for what some has done?
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@brothawolf I know it’s hard, continue on the fighting, brotha!
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“My “whiteness” has not even been advantage, in reality has been an trouble, white some creeps wanting beating me only because my skin-color.”
then:
“So sorry for him, but this not refute my point.”
*********
Abbas,
Evidently I’m missing your point…
Are you stating that you would prefer to appear as a black person instead of a white one because appearing white has brought you some grief?
If not, can you re-state what you are trying to say?
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The following should read:
“their masses bought into hook, line and sinker.”
their masses bought into it hook, line and sinker…
“Their cargo of wretchedness may have continued in the new lands,”
The cargo of wretchedness they bore in their homeland were sometimes carried into the new, at least for that first generation,…
@ Abbas
Just one question: Would you PREFER to be a black man in the EXACT situation you just outlined?
No variations – same height, same weight, same education, same work experience – in whatever field you’re involved – (Same everything).
Please answer honestly.
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@Matari oops, one mistake is:
“My “whiteness” has not even been advantage, in reality has been an trouble, with some creeps wanting beating me only because my skin-color.”
then:
I was sad for the guy.video you indicated.
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@Brottawolf I has beaten up just because my skin colour , yes, a group of young blacks shouting the r-word and ,many other anti-white slurs at me. they kicked me many times, they has spit on me.
Yet I not condemned the entire black race for something an bunch of blacks done against me. Why the black people cannot do the same? Why guiltry all white for what some has done?
What r-word?
Here’s the thing. First off, I’m sorry that happened to you. Second, those who have been in similar situations do condemn the whole race. One of the shooters in the mass shooting in Oklahoma last year was hinted in saying that he was angry because his father was killed by a black man. So, that was a likely a case of punishing other black people for what that one black man did.
However, I speculated that some people who have been victims of “black attacks”, for lack of better words, were not really victims of the attacks they claim to have been in. I only say that because of the racial hoaxes from whites over the years. Not saying that you’re lying, but it has happened, and as a result, the entire black communities in those remote areas became suspect. Some have been arrested, harassed and lynched because of the lie.
What’s more troubling is that there were cases where the real criminal was white or that the attack was self-inflicted. These racial hoaxes were not one-time occurrences, nor were they confined to the distant past.
Third, no one here is condemning the entire white race, but it would be a great disservice not to identify what their members have done.
Fourth, it’s not just about interpersonal incidents like being harassed by a group. It’s also about the systematic and structural reality of racism as well, and most of it is being run by whites. And since it’s still going on to a large degree, we can not simply be quiet about it.
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@Ubuntu I never was said it’s easy for black men, I said about the So-called white previlege.
No, I never was privileged nor my ancestrals.
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@ Abbas
Then you are going to have to point to where the post states all whites.
Secondly, because some black guys beat you up you assume that is an indication that you do not have an advantage or privileges? I am going to guess that you confuse not living the high life as a sign of not having the privilege that many people in here are actually speaking of. I think before any real discussion can pursue then you would have to really come to an understanding of what is meant by privilege and instead of just watching the Joshua S video it would be helpful to actually understand it.
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If anyone cares to I think actually telling abbas what is meant by privilege or advantage would be helpful as there is a clear indication that he is not aware of it.
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@ Abbas
With all due respect, and I repeat: Would you PREFER to be a black man in the EXACT situation you just outlined?
Secondly, I will not engage you on issues of white privilege: this blog has dealt with it exhaustively over the years, and has one (white) essayist/author explained it metaphorically – akin to the settings of a computer game: it’s not that they, ( white men, primarily) don’t get the concept of (white privilege), it’s that, those are not their words; simply, they did not coin it.
Thirdly, what are “black supremacists?” Are they the black guys, who through laws and conventions took away rights of white people? Abbas, I’m just dying to hear your explanation.
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“I was sad for the guy.video you indicated.”
and
“I think before any real discussion can pursue then you would have to really come to an understanding of what is meant by privilege and instead of just watching the Joshua S video …”
*************
Huh..?
I didn’t link to a video.. what are you folks (Abbas/Sharina) looking at??
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Heres something I wrote just recently on another Abagond thread concerning, among other things, an origin for “white privilege”:
I agree with Ubuntu about this. White privilege is something that is mostly invisible to white people. They don’t see it. So they would never think of coining this as an actual concept. The same can be said of “whiteness”. To them this is equivalent to what “normal” is. It just is!!! 🙂
You have to see and acknowledge racism existing as an already dominant, operational, and dynamic force in society. Otherwise (as an unacknowledged privileged white person) you will be blind to its effects…
This is the first BIG potential stumbling block most white people face when it comes to understanding racism.
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http://ted.coe.wayne.edu/ele3600/mcintosh.html
white privilege: unpacking the invisible knapsack
The above is just one essay about white privilege. There are MANY others.
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Kwamla said:
xPraetorius:
@Kwamla: this is just another example of magical mind reading. Your passage: “They don’t see it. So they would never think of coining this as an actual concept. The same can be said of “whiteness”. To them this is equivalent to what “normal” is. It just is!!! 🙂” … is completely invalid. If I, a white dude, were to presume to tell you what black people see and don’t see, what they think and don’t think, what they consider “normal” and not, you’d jump all over me in eye-bulging outrage. At the same time, you can’t read others’ minds. You should find some other way to prove that “white privilege” — itself nothing more than a theoretical concept, anyway — is more than just a made-up construct of the race grievance industry that needs to discern racism and its accompaniments around every corner and under every rock to stay employed and relevant.
Best,
— x
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I am also waiting for the replies to these questions. Because I also find it unclear what Abbas’s point is.
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@ Matari
I was responding to what he said about a video. I actually had not clicked on the link so sorry for the misunderstanding.
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@ Matari
I have clicked on the link. I had seen him on Oprah and while back but it was nice to actually read his experience.
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While white people grossly underestimate the amount of racism blacks face, they still understand that they have white privilege. The easiest way to show that is to ask them how much they would have to be paid to be willing to be turned into a black person for the rest of their lives. Ubuntu’s question is on-point.
The idea also appears in discussions about interracial marriage – “But what about the children?”, etc. They do not call it “white privilege”, but that is what they are talking about.
You also see it in how rare it is for whites to pass as black. Passing is almost always the other way. But why pass if there is no white privilege? Especially since it often means cutting off all public ties with one’s family?
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@ xPraetorius
“If I, a white dude, were to presume to tell you what black people see and don’t see, what they think and don’t think, what they consider “normal” and not, you’d jump all over me in eye-bulging outrage.”
Yet, to no one’s surprise, you make statements like, “Whites are the only people to undergo some self examination…”
How would you know that whites are the only self-examiners without making presumptions about black people and other groups think?
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I suppose Sandra Laing is a non-American example of a white woman passing as coloured, but it seems like it was her family that cut off ties with her for passing as coloured. But there must be examples of Americans with 2 parents passing as white but who did not pass as white themselves.
BUT .. . It is possibly arguable that persons like President Obama were white persons (white parent, raised in a white family with mostly white cultural influences) that decided to pass as black for the express purposes of establishing roots in a community that he did not grow up in. There must be an element of “privilege” in deciding to do that which he termed “rootedness”.
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“I have clicked on the link. I had seen him on Oprah and while back but it was nice to actually read his experience.”
********
What made his experiment as a black person EPIC for me, and perhaps others as well, was his psychic/emotional reactions to the “different” experiences he received at the hands of whites only two days into the experiment. He suffered a near break down, and had to end his time as a black man because the psychic shocks he received to his delicate/sensitive person-hood was so severe.
He couldn’t even tough out a week of being a black man.
“After all of two days, the experiment was over. Maybe I was weak, maybe I couldn’t hack it. I didn’t care. This anger was making me sick and the only antidote I knew was a dose of white skin. I called my mother and told her I was finished with my journey. All the hurt, all the anger, all the inhumanity. I started to cry.”
I don’t know Sharina, if racism/white supremacy would end if all or most white people had the same experience Joshua had.
I tend to believe that after the experiment they would simply default to living their so called “unprivileged” white lives.
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abagond said:
xPraetorius:
@Abagond: This is all mostly meaningless speculation.
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@ Matari
“I tend to believe that after the experiment they would simply default to living their so called “unprivileged” white lives.”—I tend to agree.
When I read his story the psychic/emotional reactions made me just want to cry for him. I also felt an overwhelming need to want to punch the chris individual as he had the never to say what he did and he was a bum…bumming food off of someone else.
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jefe,
“BUT .. . It is possibly arguable that persons like President Obama were white persons (white parent, raised in a white family with mostly white cultural influences) that decided to pass as black for the express purposes of establishing roots in a community that he did not grow up in. There must be an element of “privilege” in deciding to do that which he termed “rootedness”.”
How can he be passing when everyone knows his background?
Privilege over what? being biracial and not belonging to a community? I don’t think identifying as white was an option or should I say being accepted as white by white people wasn’t an option.
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@ Kwamla
I deleted your comment where you tell xPraetorius what a valid opinion is. I also deleted his lengthy response. He is a troll. He is being disingenuous. He is not that stupid. If you feel the need to school him on something so elementary, please do it on his thread.
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@solesearch
to be anything, you have to “pass”. We all know that Keanu Reeves is 1/8 Hawaiian and 1/4 Chinese (ie, we *know* his background), but he has to pass as “white” (even as a multiracial white) to be able to do the roles he does. We know that Wentworth Miller is part black, but he has to pass as white too, even if we know his background.
Even Mariah Carey has to “pass” as black when she is playing the black roles.
I have known blacks who were raised by white families. To be black, they also have to “pass”. Not all Korean adoptees raised in white families are able to take the psychological leap to “pass” as Asian-Americans. They might choose to “pass” as white as that is how there were raised.
Finally, just because Obama might not easily pass as simply “white”, it does not mean that he could pass as black either, or identify as such. He would have to take the psychological decision to do so.
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jefe, I was thinking of passing in the historical sense as a trick. When black people passed as white it couldn’t work if white people knew their true heritage.
“I have known blacks who were raised by white families. To be black, they also have to “pass”. ”
How do they pass? So do these people look black? I think passing has more to do with how you look than how you behave. If you look black and “act white” an ignorant person might say you’re acting white, but I doubt they would actually think you were white.
“it does not mean that he could pass as black either, or identify as such. He would have to take the psychological decision to do so.”
Could you explain this?
Because of American culture and history, PBO doesn’t have to do anything to pass as black. The threshold for blackness does vary from person to person and region to region, but not by much. The typical American would perceive Barack Obama as black. He doesn’t have to behave in a stereotypical manner to be perceived as black.
As far as how he identifies himself, I agree. That’s what I said. He’d have to chose between identifying as black or identifying as biracial. I take that back. He regularly identifies as both, so I guess he doesn’t have to choose between the two.
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@ Abagond,
We all know by now how disingenuous xP…. can be. Its clear he believes what he has to say and has his own agenda for being here. You haven’t banned him yet. In fact you’ve given him his own thread (play pen)to comment in. So whether you like or accept what he has to say or not. You are by default providing a platform for him to expound his nonsense.
So at the very least I would expect for any objectionable exchanges he makes outside of his play pen be put back in there.!
If you going to delete exchanges which clearly challenge his nonsense from regular commentators like my self – for whatever reason – then maybe its time to consider banning him altogether.
Otherwise what is the point in letting him come here to comment?
.
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“When I read his story the psychic/emotional reactions made me just want to cry for him.”
********
Sharina-
While his experience was soul stirring, its strength was only as a mini testimony or witness to what black people have been TELLING whites for HUNDREDS of years about our dealings with THEIR racism.
(Supposedly whites can’t see their racism, that is unless they’re on the receiving end of it.. like with Jane Elliot’s blue/brown eye experiments and such.)
I didn’t feel any pity or pain for Solomon’s personal experiences during his short lived experiment. Rather, I felt the anguish and pain that black/African descended people have to endure day in and day out during an entire lifetime of soul crushing events that most of us DEAL with regularly.
Black people don’t have the option to cease taking a skin altering drug and becoming white again to stave off the overwhelming deleterious effects of white-supremacy after only 2 days of having our sensibilities hammered into the dust.
And equally depressing is the notion (TRUTH) that what we say and/or experience isn’t valid, unless/until some white person comes along to validate it.
SMH
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No analysis here at all, just a re-hash of prejudices. There are clear racial differences in neurobiology and other aspects of physiology, and there are also evolutionary biology reasons why blacks would be less effective compared to other races. I find it Orwellian in the extreme that nobody is ever allowed to acknowledge that. This gives rise to the ludicrously over-indexing of blacks incarcerated and implicated in crime etc. Look at what Africa has achieved without “systematic oppression” over the course of millennia. Hardly a beacon to the world of civilisation, commerce, science, culture or enlightenment despite the abundance of natural resources and a few thousand years head start on Asians and whites. Quite staggering, the evidence is there. So get off your ridiculous soap box.
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@ Tom Fell
But you just did.
Was that supposed to be about my post or your comment?
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There must be a rule that every month a dopey “race realist” must drop by and demonstrate his utter lack of scientific knowledge while sanctimoniously declaring his own sense of intellectual independence. Sigh, will they ever even understand how stupid their arguments are?
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I fail to see how a race realist and a racist are supposed to be different, according to self-proclaimed race realists. All it tells me is that they fear being called ‘racist’ outright.
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“I fail to see how a race realist and a racist are supposed to be different, according to self-proclaimed race realists. All it tells me is that they fear being called ‘racist’ outright.”
**********
Mayhaps they do fear that association! But I’ve always looked at “race realists” as a fancy or more honest way of saying, “REAL RACISTS!”
Lets just call a duck a duck, or a joker a joker, or joke …. or goof.
Or a Tom Fella!
Hmmmm ….. lol
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I think the difference is that a ‘Race Realist’ wears a white collar over his red neck.
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@ Tom Fell
Do you consider yourself racist? Why or why not?
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What is a black supremacist and what is the r- word?
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@ Mary
The R-word is “racist”, called that because white people get highly upset when you call them that.
A black supremacist believes that blacks are naturally better than white people, so much so that society would be better off under black rule.
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Here’s a thought, when Oprah Winfrey went shopping in Switzerland, She wasn’t all dressed up in all here Oprah Winfrey glory with an entourage, she was dressed down, when to an upscale store to buy a high dollar purse,for her firnd Tina Turner, asked the sales person if she could see the purse/bag, only to be told, “No” All the sales person could see was a black woman. The sales person, assumed, that this black person could not afford this high dollar handbag. This is another example of how some white people judge blacks. Even if it wasn’t Oprah, how dare she assume just because of the color of her skin, she didn’t have the money to afford such an extravagant item. That is the problem when you assume. That sales person made an donkey out of herself.
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@ Abagond: I kind of figured that, but my logic is blacks are not supreme over anyone. That is what was throwing me off. I was trying to follow Abba’s logic, I thought about the word racist. It makes sense now. A great majority of whites get angry about being called that. Thanks for helping me, connect the dots on that one.
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In regards to this Tom Fell character, I guess he fancies himself as some supreme entity, people like that to me are dangerous. I wonder how many in the Medical profession, share his views? I remember reading about Madison Grant, the race scientist, who was into eugenics. How many other mad scientist are their in academia? This sounds like something from George Orwell, it’s scary, and it angers me all at the same time. People with this type of mentality are monsters.
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*there*
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@Tom Fell:
I think you’re wonderful! But then again, I enjoy gas pains and hemorrhoids!
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Folks, either ignore or mock these clowns. They are not interested in serious conversation; they are here to vent their bile. Personally, I enjoy mocking them as I find them particularly hilarious, others can do as they will.
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@ Herneith, HA! HA! Herneith, you make my day. LOL!
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@ King: That was funny and clever, white collar over red neck. Touche’.
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@Tom Fell
“Look at what Africa has achieved without “systematic oppression” over the course of millennia. Hardly a beacon to the world of civilisation, commerce, science, culture or enlightenment despite the abundance of natural resources… ”
LOL…Yet Africa’s unduplicable true pyramids were built over a thousand years before any trace of high civilisation in Europe…and don’t forget how your precious ancient Greek leaders all went to Africa to study and steal.
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It’s strange that the word racist is such an inflammatory word to whites, but the n-word, which is far more inflammatory and dehumanizing. I learn so many things here on Abagond’s blog. I never would have known that white people take the word as such an insult. This is just my opinion, but it’s like that is the achille’s heel for them. It’s very wounding to them.
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@mary burrell
“It’s strange that the word racist is such an inflammatory word to whites…This is just my opinion, but it’s like that is the achille’s heel for them. It’s very wounding to them.”
It’s all about guilt. A guilty conscience needs no accuser.
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When a group of family and friends of a black man in South Carolina, is asked to leave because a white patron says the black people made him uncomfortable,in 2013, a black man is in office as president, it’s the anniversary of the march on Washington, and white people are uncomfortable with black people. And the white patron’s request was to remove the black customers was agreed upon. That just blows my mind. I hope they sue the hell out of that restaurant.
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Thanks for your predictable responses. If anybody has an argument which isn’t ad hominem, please present it. I haven’t found one yet, which is why I hold these views (rather than being some kind of “monster”, which is just muddle-headed rubbish). The prize for the closest so far goes to whoever mentioned pyramids, although that is rather scraping the barrel when it’s weighed against all that has been achieved elsewhere. So if anyone is interested in a search for truth, rather than a tribalistic affirmation of prejudice for whatever motivations you have, or have acquired, please engage.
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@ Tom Fell
Do you consider yourself racist? Why or why not?
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It’s probably for the best if you define what “racist” means as far as you’re concerned. Then I can give you a definitive answer.
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@ Tom Fell
racist:
noun
a person who believes that a particular race is superior to another:
“I had a fear of being called a racist.”
http://oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/racist?q=racist
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Ok, thank you. No. I don’t believe any race (or gender, or religion, or sexuality, or any other distinction) is superior to another, because all life holds equal value. Appealing to religious grounds, we see repeated everywhere that all are equal in the eyes of the God. Appealing to atheistic reason, there is no rational basis for imbuing one class of beings with greater value than any other. So no, on that basis, I do not believe I am racist because my views align with that premise. Do I believe that physiological and other biological differences exist between sub-groups of humanity? Yes. But I do not believe those differences then endow any given sub-group with greater value.
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@Maryburell
Chile please, did you see that mess fox news and the rest of the media did for the 50th Anniversary? Some how they turned that whole anniversary to say what was wrong with black people. Such as having discussions about fixing the black community, black-on-black crime, children out of wedlock, gang violence, etc. Shoot, even Peta jumped on the bandwagon and compared the million man march to the abuse of animals….UNBELIEVEABLE.
http://www.washingtontimes.com/blog/inside-politics/2013/aug/28/peta-says-mlks-dream-applies-animals-too/
It’s like they’re trying REALLY hard to get under our feet. Very disrespectful, if they tried to do this for the WWII/Vietnam War, please everyone would have been boycotting. Ugh, I can’t stand mainstream news.
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It’s like they’re more racist then they were before! I hope and pray my generation will overpower the ignorance.
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@ mary
I read about that family being kicked out, I hope they sue as well and let this be a lesson to us, don’t spend money in their restaurants if u are treated with disrespect. They are more patient than me because I would not be waiting in line for 2 hours just to eat. I would’ve been like wtf i’m so hungry f it im going home and fix something. This proves imo that money isn’t everything, even if we do have money or status a white person will always be looked at as more valuable no matter if they have less money. If it was about money then the manager would’ve let the 25 black ppl stay and eat as that would’ve been a good bit of money to make. Instead one white person which they would’ve made a small profit off of gets to stay and they kick the 25 ppl out which would’ve been more profit for them. smh, it is so true that whites will lose out on money just to f with us. I’d never heard of this restaurant before and I don’t have one in my area thank goodness, ppl should boycott that restaurant chain.
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@ Drosera
Wtf peta, i’d heard about fox news craziness, but peta just took it to another level. I want to see their stupid as at the 9/11 memorial pulling this sheit about the animals but they won’t do it because they have respect for those ppl.Proves me right that everybody uses us and our small platform we get from time to time to voice their dam issues. Go do that on someone else’s time go do it on the anniversary of the holocaust and say yes ppl were put into camps but we need to care about the dogs in puppy mills they are treated badly too. But no they won’t do that, they need to sit down. Peta is just as bad as fox, fox over there talking about oh black ppl u didn’t talk about ur issues, ok mofo, how would u like if on the anniversary of all these dam shootings someone says u know yall should talk about ur issues like shooting sprees, beastiality, flds, white female teachers screwing students,etc.
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@ Tom Fell
I am having some difficulty trying to make sense of what you say…?
Could you perhaps elaborate on how you reconcile these two statements you’ve made in response to Abagond’s question: Do you consider yourself racist? Why or why not?
Statement (1)
Statement (2)
To help you I have highlighted in bold where you might want to direct you’ve initial concentration. Hope this helps…
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@mstoogood4yall
I know, I’m getting sooo tired of the disrespect we are getting. Our hides are getting tanned and nobody is saying anything! This is bull! I swear I feel like just telling all the black folks “Forget it and gtfoh”. Grab the passport, suitcase and get gone. I swear, I believe we are trying so hard to be the “bigger person” that everyone is seeing it and running with it, b/c they believe we are “weak”. Just like that Miley Cyrus thing, nothing but racial misogyny to black women. She’s twerks and uses black women as props, and the stupid feminist wanna talk about it “Slut shaming”. No respect
And please, you know they AIN’T gonna go on live t.v and compare all those “crimes” to the public. They’ll just scream racism and say those are only a “few” bad cases. Like before they didn’t want any racial statistics/research on serial killers/shooters that happen to be white men, but strangely nothing about the bias to people of color. SMH
Where are the black Panthers when you need them? Like someone said before, black people should just create their own town and forget the rest. So tired of us getting slammed and blamed, no one has our backs. But when they get in trouble, HERE COMES THE CALVARY! All cozy up to us when their side is screwing up, but once it returns back to normal. A smirk and back to us being the underdogs again.
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@ Tom Fell
I have the same question as Kwamla.
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@Tom Fell
“The prize for the closest so far goes to whoever mentioned pyramids, although that is rather scraping the barrel when it’s weighed against all that has been achieved elsewhere”
How about medicine? Africa’s Ebers papyrus was written over a thousand years before your so-called father of Medicine, Hippocrates (who studied in Africa), was born. Trigonometry? The Rhind papyrus was written over a thousand years before your so-called father of medicine, Pythagoras (who also studied in Africa), was born.
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correction: so-called father of MATHEMATICS, Pythagoras
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It’s all in the original statement. The last part explains the difference between the parts that were put in bold by the individual who was “having difficulty making sense” of what I wrote (presumably without any intention of irony). There can be a difference in effectiveness between groups, it doesn’t make someone of lower value. I doubt many women could become heavyweight boxing champion. That’s a biologically based fact. It’s not a value judgement, unless you happen to think that heavyweight boxing is the yardstick by which all people should be valued. I don’t believe any such yardstick should exist.
I note that we’re not getting any actual new argument here based on logic, just a lot of emotion. If anyone can present a stronger alternative argument, I’m happy to debate. If the purpose of the forum is more about mutually reinforcing self-righteousness at best, I’d rather not waste my time.
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@ Tom Fell
“I note that we’re not getting any actual new argument here based on logic, just a lot of emotion.”—So simply asking you to clarify is an emotional argument?
” If anyone can present a stronger alternative argument, I’m happy to debate”—There has yet to be an argument to begin with so I am going to say what the f*ck are you even talking about?”
“If the purpose of the forum is more about mutually reinforcing self-righteousness at best, I’d rather not waste my time.”—From the sounds of it you feel your already wasted your time (without even beginning this imaginary debate you feel you took a small part in) so why come back?
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Tom Fell,
I note that we’re not getting any actual new argument here based on logic, just a lot of emotion. If anyone can present a stronger alternative argument, I’m happy to debate. If the purpose of the forum is more about mutually reinforcing self-righteousness at best, I’d rather not waste my time.
Is that the reason you came here, to argue? And why must you argue?
What makes you think the counter-arguments here are based on a lot of emotion. Furthermore, why shouldn’t they be?
Lastly, what makes you think what you believe is more significant or more true as opposed to anyone else who disagrees?
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Why do individuals always run on these blogs screaming debate, but when one is presented to them the first thing they do is call foul or some other bs?
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@ Brothawolf
I don’t see a debate or argument to begin with. Those that responded handled it very well, but when addressed in a serious manner his first response was that load of bs. It is like the nicer you try to be to these individuals the more they attempt to take advantage of it.
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I won’t bother responding to the person swearing in their post.
To brothawolf, your questions in order:
Yes, I assumed there would be a debate.
I haven’t seen any counter-argument (where is the one in your own post?)
Your judgement of my beliefs is yours, not mine, and therefore not really mine to justify.
I do realise that someone further up did quote some historical references about medicine and mathematics. Thank you for those, I was not previously aware of them. I will take a look.
Reading through some of the other posts, there are appalling cases of systematic racism also talked about. There is no doubt that occurs, and it is abhorrent.
On a final point, I do take exception to all white people being viewed as holding the views in the original post by Abagond. I presume it’s meant to be ironic and provocative, but I should have realised that a forum which begins with a set of statements like that would not be a place for an actual debate.
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https://www.change.org/petitions/ohio-parole-board-and-governor-kasich-free-tyra-patterson#share
Please sign petition, people. ^_^
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@Tom Fell
“I note that we’re not getting any actual new argument here based on logic, just a lot of emotion.”
I gave you facts to counter your emotional and inaccurate statement about Africa having a “Hardly a beacon to the world of civilisation, commerce, science, culture or enlightenment.”
What facts have you laid on?
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@ Tom Fell
“I should have realised that a forum which begins with a set of statements like that would not be a place for an actual debate.”—You have yet to present an argument to be debated. What you did was laid out a group of inflammatory statements meant to rouse the crowd, but nothing more.
When you got a response (regardless of the response) you chose to dance around questions, ignore, play victim, or claim a lack of debate from others when there was none to begin with.
So in all honestly you are not looking for a debate, so why should you get the respect of someone that is?
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@ resw77
“What facts have you laid on?”—None. But I am beginning to wonder if this is the new thing. Come to a room and just throw out bs and claim they were debating. I am still trying to figure out where and if the debate even began.
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“I won’t bother responding to the person swearing in their post.”—I suggest you not as it is clear you did not have much to say to begin with.
@ everyone else
Exhibit A: the main rules many if not most White Americans seem to apply when thinking about black people
Conclusion by most white readers: I do take exception to all white people being viewed as holding the views in the original post by Abagond.
Never ever ceases to be viewed as all white people even when it says otherwise. 🙂
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@Sharina
“Come to a room and just throw out bs and claim they were debating. ”
That’s it. They use their stereotypes and myths as facts b/c they are either ignorant or assume we are.
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@ Tom Fell
No offence but…
You seem to be falling down on your own reasoning abilities Tom (no pun intended). You’ve said:
“…It’s all in the original statement. The last part explains the difference between the parts that were put in bold by the individual who was “having difficulty making sense” of what I wrote (presumably without any intention of irony). There can be a difference in effectiveness between groups, it doesn’t make someone of lower value…”
Or perhaps its me…but could you simply highlight the part in your original statement which explains all of this?
I agree, there can be differences in effectiveness between groups (e.g: Black and white Olympic sprinters)
But remember, you’ve already stated:
“…there are also evolutionary biology reasons why blacks would be less effective compared to other races…”
So just off the top of your head, could you share what some of those reasons might be?
And how about some examples? Any old example would do….
I highlighted in bold how you might like to be begin describing one. Again I hope this helps…
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Yup, I know all the rules they have of us
1) All Blacks are predisposed to bad behavior even the good ones.
2) All Blacks are n*****s.
3) Blacks are of the lesser race
4) Black women are less attractive than White women
5) White men are stronger, more handsome, more masculine than Black men,
6) All Black men are thugs who run in and out of jail and desire White women.
7) All Black women are ugly, masculine, neck snapping hoes
I can go on and on but I don’t have the time. As a Black female, I know the way Whites think and act.
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@ Adeen: Comment deleted for wishing bodily harm on another commenter. Too close to a call for violence, even if it was kind of figurative.
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lol @ Adeen:
You’re getting more and more militant with every post! ^_^
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rofl. adeen u better slow down girl. who is the commenter u wishing harm to, I know it ain’t me but dam… bawhwhwa
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look adeen if u trying to say something about someone don’t say anything like i’ll whoop ur as, and I hope u fall down and dye. instead put it in code @ son of 2#&#^@ u p#$ have a great day. See now only I know what I just said, mwahahwhahha.
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@ Rebeca from Brazil:
You have been BANNED:
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@ MsGood,
From where I stand, you are brilliant. Regardless of whichever road you choose to follow, I wish you much success in life.
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i do not know your race if you are White or Black, I am a Black person, i agree with you that, White people know us blacks more than how we know our self’s, when i am around white people, they really piss me off, i am not a racist, what i am trying to explain is that, when i am around white people, they will always want to know how i totally feel inside about them…..it really makes me angry and it makes me think that, the White people think blacks are inferior beings……Nice topic
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[…] list came from abagond.wordpress.com click the link to see the in depth […]
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black people dont like being called the n-word because whenever somebody uses it they think the person who used the word thinks there better then them and black people are same as us whites and mexicans so whats the point of this blog????
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I realize the conversation on this thread stopped last year and it’s probably the last time I visited this blog. But I was searching for something and this website popped up. Anyway, I read the part where it stated that no matter how well-educated and well-mannered black people are white people still consider blacks niggers.
While it may be true, ignorant blacks accuse well-spoken, well-educated, and well-mannered blacks as ‘trying to be/act white,’ or ‘think they are white.’ Personally, I really don’t care what blacks or whites think of me, but I’m around blacks on a daily basis, so I hear their comments about other blacks and whites. Which brings me to something else you said.
Something about black people imagine racism. THEY DO!! I’m referring to blacks who use racism (and slavery) as a convenient crutch they lean on to justify their on actions and behaviour. For years, blacks have been complaining about whites and there aren’t even any whites around. But let a white person visit someone in a black neighborhood. It is such a big deal. Whites are welcomed with open arms. Where’s the racism then? When the white person leaves out of the neighborhood, blacks go back to calling whites racist. I should point out that this was going on years ago.
Now, there’s an epidemic of black on white crime sweeping America. Hate crimes are being committed against whites for no reason at all. Ignorant, ghetto blacks are attacking whites because ‘they are bored.’ What do you think white people should do?
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Are you saying that that is a general rule, or that sometimes they attribute things to racism that shouldn’t be?
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Oh yes I see where this is going your trying to draw out racist to make a racist statement which I would never do. Oh yes I do remember the ole kingfisher sayen to ole amos “why things are just grand soon we are be goin to heavan dat be da great fish fry in da sky
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Negroes are gdamn savages if left to their own devices. Nothing more than cannibals.
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@pist white
Interesting enough if we look at history the savages actually seem to be whites. Left to there own devices they have pillaged and destroyed.
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@ Uriel: Comment deleted for use of moderated language and being off-topic.
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Negroes are gdamn savages if left to their own devices. Nothing more than cannibals.
That turns you on, doesn’t it?
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@ pist white
You might find this fine article to be helpful. Bon appétit!
http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/damianthompson/100076577/ancient-britons-were-cannibals-so-now-we-can-admit-the-truth-that-other-gentle-native-peoples-ate-each-other/
Ancient Britons were cannibals. So now we can admit the truth: that other ‘gentle native peoples’ ate each other
Ancient Britons stand accused today of ritually killing each other, boiling and eating human flesh and drinking out of hollowed out skulls – including the skulls of children. This may be a startling revelation to the general public, but I doubt that it will be much of a surprise to anthropologists. And it may even come as a relief to champions of aboriginal peoples around the world who have tried to dismiss evidence of native cannibalism as a white colonialist smear. At least now they can say: the Brits were at it, too.
The most significant thing about the discoveries, arguably, is the relative sophistication of the society that committed these atrocities. These cannibals were Ice Age hunter-gatherers, not savages. They chopped up the bodies and hollowed out the skulls with meticulous culinary precision. (It’s sheer coincidence, I’m sure, that the ancestors of these Cro-Magnon people came from France.)
It’s an uncomfortable truth that cannibalism isn’t confined to the most primitive people, but survived among societies – even civilisations – that Western scholars have depicted as “noble”, “peaceful” and “advanced”. For most of the 20th century, for example, there was a romantic cult of the Mayans of Central America as a gentle theocracy ruled by priest-astronomers. Then the murals of Bonampak were discovered – gorgeous works of art, but obviously the product of a people whose warrior-kings were ankle-deep in gore. Now the consensus is that the Mayans practised Aztec-style human sacrifice and ate the hearts of the the victims.
Theories involving cannibalism can wreak havoc in an age when archaeologists have to work in a politically correct academic environment. There was an explosive row in the late 1990s when evidence emerged that the Anasazi, ancestors of the revered Hopi Native Americans, sometimes butchered human victims like game animals.
Here’s the indignant response of one Debra Martin, an anthropology professor from Massachusetts, to research by physical anthropologist Christy Turner, who claimed to have found evidence of cannibalism at 38 Anasazi sites:
“Why does Christy think that if bones are cut and flesh cooked that it means cannibalism? Why can’t it also indicate the killing of witches? Why can’t it be ritual mortuary practice?”
Some Native American spokesmen, meanwhile, just refused to countenance the hypothesis. So have the representatives of other aboriginal peoples confronted by evidence of ancestral cannibalism, particularly if the practice occurred recently. As for New Age worshippers of the noble savage, the whole subject induces acute cognitive dissonance.
As I say, evidence that white Europeans were cannibals may take the edge off their distress. Meanwhile, I’ve come across one ingenious theory that enables liberals to acknowledge the ubiquity of cannibalism and reinforce their right-on credentials. As Ted Turner explained a couple of years ago, we all have the capacity to revert to cannibalism and may soon be forced to do so… by shortage of food caused by global warming.
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White people ain’t never gave up cannibalism..This is why they love McDonald’s.
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As Ice Cube said in his famous dis’ rap song ‘No Vaseline’: “This is what they think about you…”
This is what White people think about Blacks – their magazines, concerts, etc. reinforces black stereotypes and anti-Black racism:
(Abagond’s ‘The black brute stereotype’ post breaks down this Black man stereotype: https://abagond.wordpress.com/2008/04/23/the-black-brute-stereotype/ )
(Abagond’s ‘Sarah Baartman’ post explains the stereotype and degradation of the Black woman: https://abagond.wordpress.com/2008/01/25/sarah-baartman/ )
Unfortunately, Black people’s unwillingness to learn about black stereotypes has caused many Blacks to participate in black stereotypes and degradation.
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Looking for a place to share an observation made today. While standing in line at a food buffet at a College campus restaurant, I was sixth in line waiting for the 11:00 opening. In front of me were four white males, a black male and a white female. Through the door entered a white male, two white females and four more white males. All took their place at the end of the line behind us seven. A few moments later a black couple entered and headed straight for the front of the line, seemingly oblivious to the fact there was a line. The female said “Let’s go to the back of the line” and proceeded, while the male ignored her, pretending to be reading the menu and slid in line in front of the black male already there. No communication, just a side sneaky side step, leaving his friend alone at the back of the line. By this time about twenty more people were in line behind me, all white except the lone black female previously abandoned. In walks another black male who started for the end of the line, then side stepped, pretending to be looking at things, then slowly, methodically worked his way behind the first black male who cut. After a dozen, or so more white entries. A third black entry recognized the second black male cutter and headed straight for cuts with him. What started as me with five whites and one black male in front of me, turned into me with five whites and four black males in front of me. Not one of the three black male cutters had the nerve to even look back and acknowledge the fifty whites and one lone black female behind them. Is this ignorance, or gall? Granted, they were all obviously on football scholarship, so they must not be blamed for ignorance, concussion, or need for special treatment. Or, they are just so inconsiderate, they do not care how primitive they appear in a social gathering. They don’t care how stereotypes are created, but bitch about it later. Die.
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Did you say anything? Nope? Why come here? You were already chalk full of racist stereotypes before this incident. What idiot waits in line at a restaurant? The food can’t be that good.
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Joe
You don’t sound to bright. Must be that football scholarship.
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“Granted, they were all obviously on football scholarship, so they must not be blamed for ignorance, concussion, or need for special treatment.”
@ Joe
I’m curious.
Do you play collegiate football?
Were they *wearing_a_sign* that stated they were receiving a football scholarship at your college?
Do you also know what percentage of their education was funded by their (supposed) football scholarship? In other words, were they receiving full, or partial, football scholarships?
Are there any Black women attending your school? Do they all have obvious football scholarships, also??
What exactly was it that tipped you off regarding the obvious “football scholarship?”
How do you know that they weren’t on a basketball or baseball scholarships?
Is it possible that they were there (at your school) on an academic scholarship, or even no scholarship at all?
Could these Black men have been recipients of legacy scholarships?
Thanks for proving the point of the original post!!!
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“Or, they are just so inconsiderate, they do not care how primitive they appear in a social gathering.”
Tell me Joe,
Did white people appear primitive when they were sucking up:
Affirmative action in the American “workplace” first began in the late 17th century when European indentured servants – the original source of unfree labor on the new tobacco plantations of Virginia and Maryland – were replaced by African slaves. In exchange for their support and their policing of the growing slave population, lower-class Europeans won new rights, entitlements, and opportunities from the planter elite.
White Americans were also given a head start with the help of the U.S. Army. The 1830 Indian Removal Act, for example, forcibly relocated Cherokee, Creeks and other eastern Indians to west of the Mississippi River to make room for white settlers. The 1862 Homestead Act followed suit, giving away millions of acres of what had been Indian Territory west of the Mississippi. Ultimately, 270 million acres, or 10% of the total land area of the United States, was converted to private hands, overwhelmingly white, under Homestead Act provisions.
The 1790 Naturalization Act permitted only “free white persons” to become naturalized citizens, thus opening the doors to European immigrants but not others. Only citizens could vote, serve on juries, hold office, and in some cases, even hold property. In this century, Alien Land Laws passed in California and other states, reserved farm land for white growers by preventing Asian immigrants, ineligible to become citizens, from owning or leasing land. Immigration restrictions further limited opportunities for nonwhite groups. Racial barriers to naturalized U.S. citizenship weren’t removed until the McCarran-Walter Act in 1952, and white racial preferences in immigration remained until 1965.
In the South, the federal government never followed through on General Sherman’s Civil War plan to divide up plantations and give each freed slave “40 acres and a mule” as reparations. Only once was monetary compensation made for slavery, in Washington, D.C. There, government officials paid up to $300 per slave upon emancipation – not to the slaves, but to local slaveholders as compensation for loss of property.
When slavery ended, its legacy lived on not only in the impoverished condition of Black people but in the wealth and prosperity that accrued to white slaveowners and their descendents. Economists who try to place a dollar value on how much white Americans have profited from 200 years of unpaid slave labor, including interest, begin their estimates at $1 trillion.
Jim Crow laws, instituted in the late 19th and early 20th century and not overturned in many states until the 1960s, reserved the best jobs, neighborhoods, schools and hospitals for white people.
JUST TO NAME A FEW INDIGNANTIES Blacks suffered … and are still currently suffering from.
So please tell me again how Blacks are so terribly inconsiderate when we cut in front of white people – – – while in a restaurant. Truth be told, normally it’s the other way around!
We’ve LEARNED from the Masters of Inconsiderates (aka white people). Apparently we are only in the beginning stages of our learning. We are no where near as primitive as you guys!
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Strawman representation with a disregard for the finer points of white supremacy.
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@ Ryyn89
And these finer points are?
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He doesn’t have any.
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You should go apologise to your father for being such a nigger lover.
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