Kimani “Kiki” Gray (c. 1996-2013) was gunned down and killed at age 16 in front of his best friend’s house by plain clothes policemen on the streets of East Flatbush, Brooklyn in New York City. He was killed Saturday night, March 9th 2013, when he was coming back from a party with six of his friends. At least four days of angry, sometimes violent, protests have followed.
The police account and that of eyewitnesses are different on important points. The police said they wore badges and said they were the police, that Gray pointed a gun at them. Eyewitnesses say Gray was empty handed, that the police did not wear badges nor said who they were. Their car was not a police car. Eyewitnesses call Gray and his friends “kids”, the police called them a group of “men”.
The police say Gray “adjusted his waistband” in “a suspicious manner.” Seeing this they stopped their car and got out for an apparent “stop and frisk” to check him for a gun. They say Gray pointed a gun at them and they opened fire. An unfired .38 calibre pistol was later found at the scene.
The police officers, Sgt Mourad Mourad and Officer Jovaniel Cordova, have a record of falsifying evidence. They have shot people before, but never killed anyone. Mourad has had three lawsuits brought against him, Cordova, two. The NYPD settled the lawsuits out of court for $215,000, admitting to no wrongdoing. Both officers are decorated. They are now on desk duty.
They shot at Gray 11 times, four shots hit him in front, three in back, not necessarily in that order. Eyewitnesses say Gray was adjusting his belt, not pulling out a gun.
Even after Gray was down, a police officer was right over him and kept shooting.
Gray lay screaming:
Help me. Help me. My stomach is burning. Help me. They shot me.
Gray’s mother:
He’s my angel, and my baby, and he was slaughtered, and I want to know why. After the first shot, why the second bullet, why the third bullet?
Ramarley Graham’s mother at one of the protests:
When are they going to start protecting us and stop killing our kids?
Vigils turned into protests, sometimes violent ones. They threw bricks and bottles at the police. They shouted “NYPD KKK!” They trashed a Rite-Aid pharmacy. The police were in riot gear. They were on horses. They were in helicopters overhead.
Older, wiser heads from the neighbourhood try to calm down the protesters to prevent an outright riot. The protesters themselves are mostly young people, they have no leader to speak for them, they are boiling over with anger with no useful way to express it.
Demands: an independent investigation with the policemen brought to justice.
East Flatbush is mostly West Indian and working-class. Gray’s mother, for example, came from Jamaica, his father from Guyana. East Flatbush is no stranger to police brutality: just last year Shantel Davis, unarmed, was shot dead by police in broad daylight.
See also:
- Alan Blueford – very similar case in Oakland
- NYPD:
- Ramarley Graham – also adjusted his waistband
- Sean Bell
- Romona Moore: a Missing Black Woman
- Kenneth Chamberlain
- Rekia Boyd
- Oscar Grant
- Phantom Negro Weapons – the weapon of choice for gunned-down black people
- racial profiling
- The 1967 Detroit Riot
- Selma
Reblogged this on The Racist and Unoriginal Anglo-American Entertainment Industry and commented:
……………………………………………………
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REVOLUTION IS THE SOLUTION!
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Thanks for this Abagond.
“They threw bricks and bottles at the police. They shouted “NYPD KKK!” and in response — “The police were in riot gear. They were on horses. They were in helicopters overhead.” {smdh}
Your 1965 vs 2013 comparison speaks volumes about how not.one.thing.has.changed in 48 years — on either side.
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Here we go again, it seems almost routine, that Police kill a black child/man on a constant basis, we always see a major news story about a grown white policeman, killing a young black child in cold blood. Its not a question of if but when another black child, will be murdered by white policemen.
I think black parents, shouldn’t let their black young boys, go out in public anymore, day or night. Its really gotten that bad!!
Notice, that its always a white policeman, that kills a black child or man, never a black or Hispanic police officer, yet they will never admit to it being, racially motivated.
I’ve seen this scenario, many time before. They’ll get assigned, desk duty or paid leave, until a “investigation” is performed( not a really, they just let some time pass as to let things cool down) , then find them not guilty.
Then put the same killer back out in the same community, where he is free to kill again. ( chances are, he probably won’t do it again or risk getting convicted next time but his buddy will, being he is up next ). Its like they all take turns, killing black people.
They seem to always gets passes for shooting black people but get only one pass for “shooting a black person, dead.
Sometimes the police dept. will even, settle out of court with the victims family for chump change, not millions but mere, 10’s or 100’s of thousands of dollars, i know you can’t put a price on a life but the settlement, they offer the families of these young victims, are a slap in the face.
Either way, settling out of court and not admitting to any, wrong doing or simply not being found guilty of murder, changes nothing in police culture.
This sends a message to police/law enforcement all over America, you can kill a black man or a black child as young as 16 or younger and get away with it.
There is no way, that a 16 year old child, is going to pull a gun on several police officers, even a 16 year old, knows that a death wish.
A gun was found, unfired……several witnesses!
Here come the media, they just love a story about police, killing black people, its sweeps week, it’ll be great for ratings!
We’ll see a saturation of news coverage, on site with mic in hand, shoving it in black people’s faces asking the usual dumb questions, “How do you feel?” and “do you think this incident is racially motivated?”
I’d probably grab the mic and attempt to shove it up the reporter’s ass, being the media only shows up in the black community, when there was a crime committed, suspect at large or a killing of a black person by police.
They never show up, when the black community is doing positive things for their, community. Then when you watch the local news, you see the media covering, white kids selling lemonade, girl and boy scout cookies, local events and concerts.
Then you look at the police log in the white community and its filled with arrests of white criminals but you wouldn’t know that, being the media doesn’t cover the white community in terms of crime.
I’m so tired of seeing our black “children” being killed by police officers at will and with such a, “matter of fact” and “its business as usual”, demeanor.
The count down to Obama’s last term has already begun, law reform needs to be on the black agenda for the left, only 2nd to jobs for the black community.
My heart goes out to the child’s family……
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This is so tragic on so many levels. This needs to be investigated. The news blogs have so many conflicting stories about what happened. RIP Kimani Gray. Prayers for the family.
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These police and just thugs on the government payroll. Out to have some fun Saturday night and shoot some n****rs. Smh.
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@ Sondis, I rather the media as it did now not show up to those type of positive events.
I would prefer a black college age or older video blogger going out and doing doing some ground work. Hopefully the person has done some Journalism studies. I would also be happy with any black person taking community action. At events like these I would also prefer black activism rather than traditional media coverage.
I remember some years back a halloween party had been going on in a house. Now it was costume party and the cops came and started peeking into the window. Now one of the guest was a black guy dressed up as a cowboy the cops say he drew his gun.
What the hell are you doing sneaking around a house during Halloween. Knock and annouce yourself plenty of people are dressed in stupid things during that time.
On this story I love how 16 year olds become men. Because you know they can go out a buy tabacco, alcohol, and vote. Yes, we now all those things that put you into the catagory of adult are right there and any 16 year old man can go and get them.
Personally I am tired of cops killing unarmed people. Or gunbusting there way into things and later saying we had no choice. Is there any other way to adjust your waistband? Really, I mean come on. I am tired of hearing about Cops killing any kids.
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Looking at Kimani’s baby face…I am physically ill. Thank you for taking up the story of what has happened to this kid.
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This is getting out of hand. Black people in new york and cali need to be on alert big time.Can’t even adjust your pants without these pigs shootin someone. I remember a case a few yrs ago about a musician being beaten by the nypd plainclothes officers.Anybody would fight back if someone is grabbing them and not identifying themselves and its a group of them.But watch how many people will say he shouldn’t have fought back or adjusted his pants. I think there will be more blacks murdered when obama is out of office.Why the hell is it they call a 16yr old a man.yet when its a white kid gettin tried for murder or something they call them a child.Black kids are not looked at as being kids in their eyes.They try to excuse it and minmize it by saying the victim is a man not a child.
I wonder what kimani’s height and weight was because you know they are going to use that to try to justify this just like they did with trayvon.Dam shame your height,skin color,and clothes automatically makes you a suspect.
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How many European-Americans adjusting their belt, or pulling out their wallet are killed by police?
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@KoT
Agree that it should be an undercover journalist getting enough information to do a good documentary.
But, who would secretly fund that? Once the funding for such a project got known, how would get decent information? Seems hopeless.
At least, compared to 1965, we have social media now. It is now more difficult to keep such incidents under raps.
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@ Sondis:
“Notice, that its always a white policeman, that kills a black child or man, never a black or Hispanic police officer”
Jovaniel Cordova, this can hardly get any more hispanic.
Mourad Mourad, probably Arabic (so chances are he is of African descent)
Certainly not white by your own “One Drop Rule”.
Prayers for the family.
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Is this a case of phantom negro weapons again?
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@ abagond
I take 3 issues with your facts.
1 Kimani had four prior arrests on his record, including charges of grand larceny, possession of stolen property and inciting a riot.
2 Kimani’s cousin said he was carrying a gun.
3 Using a pic of Kimani from the 3rd grade is prejudicial
The cops said they saw him adjusting his belt in a suspicious manner. Apparently. he was carrying it in his waistband. Even his friends said he was “adjusting his belt” when he was shot. So here’s some advice. When the police are pointing guns at you and ordering you to raise your hands don’t stick them where you’re concealing a gun.
>>
Notice, that its always a white policeman, that kills a black child or man, never a black or Hispanic police officer, yet they will never admit to it being, racially motivated. — sondis
The officers’ names were Mourad and Cordova. I believe that would be Moroccan and Hispanic. People on this blog have had a very difficult time deciding whether North Africans and Hispanics are white or not.
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@mary burell..“This needs to be investigated.”
By whom? Any governmental agency — from the NYPD to the Justice Dept. — is like having the fox guarding the hen house. And seeing as the Black mis-leadership class has been sitting idly by for some time now, while all of these children have been getting murdered, I don’t see them forcing, nor monitoring any investigations. And forget about the crocodile-tears shedder!
@Kwende.. I agree with you, but we’re going to need a whole lot of Harriet Tubmans to pull it off!
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Reblogged this on revealingartisticthoughts and commented:
The more things change, the more they stay the same. Smh, R.I.P Kimani Gray
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There was a weapon found, it had not been fired. I won’t be surprised if it was planted there by the police. I put nothing past police officers, when it comes to them, killing someone black.
They know everyone will say, it was because the person was black, so they prepare for that in advance by having a spare gun to plant, so they can have a justification for shooting, unarmed black children and men.
Don’t think so? its not like they don’t have access to 100’s of guns, confiscated by drug busts and raids. So they can easily lift a gun from the evidence room, with a shaved off serial number and plant it in a dead child hand, so his finger prints are on it, then claim self defense.
I am 100% that almost every white cop, carries around one of these gun in their patrol car’s trunk and whip it out, when the situation calls for a cover up.
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what is up with the months of february and march its like black people are in season during these months.It seems we will see cases like this every single year. I’m getting so drained and fed up,sheit were the black panther try outs.
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@ Deb; I fear that there is truth to what you say. I am looking at how they are dragging their feet with the Trayvon Martin case. It’s sad but true they (law enforcement) do not care about black people or other people of color in America.
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@ Churchs
I did not say anything about his police record because it does not make a damn bit of difference in this case. It does not excuse gunning down 16-year-old children. Except apparently in your eyes.
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I just deleted a comment by Churchs which used a racial slur.
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@ Churchs
How do you know it is a picture from third grade?
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I did not say anything about the police record because it does not make a damn bit of difference.
But you for damn sure told the officers backgrounds didn’t you. Did that make a difference? How about the cousin saying he actually did have a gun. Did that not make a damn bit of difference either? Or the fact that one of cops was black? Oh that’s right. That’s “internalized racism”. #gdridiculous
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I just deleted a comment by Churchs which used a racial slur.
the word i used was “wh1tey”. you want your readers to think i used a black slur.
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The comment you deleted told the real races of the cops — hispanic and BLACK. I think that’s the real reason you deleted that comment. because you haven’t deleted “wh1tey” for a while.
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@ Churchs
That the police officers in question falsify evidence makes a huge difference. Their pattern of behaviour as police officers also matters.
I never said anything about the race of the police officers or made an issue of it. So save it.
Maybe Gray had a gun, who knows. But eyewitnesses do not remember seeing one – just the police. The police “see” all kinds of things when they get in trouble. They lie through their teeth knowing that judges will buy it.
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@ Churchs
Wow. Just fucking wow. I just deleted your comment for using that word and said why and you go and fucking use it anyway by putting a “1” in it. Because you know better than the blog owner. How special you must think you are.
Churchs is banned.
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I’ve done told y’all, leave chuchs the racist troll alone and don’t bother responding to him.
He obviously doesn’t care about the loss of a 16 year old black child’s life, then he does about trying to nick pick at the things we are pointing out, ( all too often ) about another killing of our black children.
He didn’t even express any condolences by way of, “my prayers go out to the family”, he just goes in on the thread and shits all over it!
He’ll spend all his time, digging up this child’s criminal record to justify the cops actions and at the same time, attempt to lower the worth of a child’s life by bringing up, criminal records. So in his mind, a “child” with a criminal record, not a man but a CHILD, deserves to be killed for no reason.
So for churcs and most white people, when it comes to a black child, being killed by the police, it comes down to if they had a criminal past or not, determines if they are worth, grieving.
Ignore Churchs people, he’s not worth the aggravation he brings to our wonderful, blog that abagond has provided for us.
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I never said anything about the race of the police officers or made an issue of it. So save it. abagond
Yeah. You’re very careful to sanitize articles like this of anything explicitly racial. Then you turn around and use a picture of a little kid that’s several years old. And a picture of a little shrine. With his mother talking about her “baby” being “slaughtered”. The whole purpose being to emotionalize the issue.
Then you make it implicitly racial by showing a bunch of black protesters and white cops. Then you show a picture of a couple of white cops arresting a black rioter next to a similar picture from a 1965 race riot. Then you’ll say, “What? I never mentioned race.” Who are you kidding! Race was dripping all over this article. And all your readers heard your dog whistles. Now you’ll say, “What? I’m not responsible for what my readers say.” Someone would have to be a fool to buy what you’re selling.
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Whew! that ban was a long time coming, i know you don’t ban without good reason, adagond. I wouldn’t even request for him to be banned, that’s why i just suggested that people ignore him. I knew it was only a matter of time for him to say, what he really wanted to say.
I’ll expect to see, churcs via a sock puppet, soon as possible. ^_^
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Who do you think you’re fooling. You were just looking for an excuse to ban
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Here is a picture of Sgt Mourad:
Here is Officer Cordova:
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This article says he’s black.
http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/brooklyn/teen_who_pointed_gun_autopsy_cops_hvTxfmefPhcxYseo8Eu8BL
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that’s strange, how is it that he is banned, yet still able to post?
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^ Churchs knows a trick or two… but it can only prolong his life slightly.. it can’t save him from banning in the end.
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@ Churchs
Wow. You are still here, proving conclusively that you have absolutely no respect for my rules.
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@ Churchs
and to be fair to Abagond, there don’t seem to be many pictures of Kimani when he was older on the internet. At least I can’t find any large enough to use as a thread header.
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I see,King.
The article that churchs posted, is typical of the media. pointing out prior arrests, gang affiliation as if that means some how, black people, deserve to die, when killed by police.
When a black person is killed by police, having no criminal record, when excuse do they use, then? He was a criminal in a past life, through incarnation???
Its just like, abagond article, “how to be a victim”
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@ mary burrell…“I am looking at how they are dragging their feet with the Trayvon Martin case”
Perfect example
@ abagond…“They lie through their teeth knowing that judges will buy it.”
And they do. As for the ban — *applauds*
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@ Deb: I like your blog as well.
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@ Churchs
I wrote a POST on that word. YOU commented on it. Seventeen times. You know full well how I feel about it. And even if you forgot, my deleting your comment should have reminded you.
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@ mary burrell…Thanks, drop in anytime!
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“Churchs,
Yeah. You’re very careful to sanitize articles like this of anything explicitly racial. Then you turn around and use a picture of a little kid that’s several years old. And a picture of a little shrine. With his mother talking about her “baby” being “slaughtered”. The whole purpose being to emotionalize the issue.”
How do you know the picture is old? This kid appears to have a baby face.
If you should ever procreate, lets hope your kids don’t meet any misfortune at the hands of strangers like Natalie Hollaway or the countless other white kids who were murdered and received media attention with a lot less HATE … unlike these poor black kids who get killed and it fills you disgusting, pieces of sh’t white racists with joy.
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Looks like the ban, finally went through. *breathes a sigh of relief. ^_^
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I honestly don’t know what to say about this, even though it happened days ago. I’m literally numb about all of this. This sh*t keeps going and going, It could happen too any black man or black woman, even the ones who show up here, or myself.
I was arguing with eco about one of the things I wish to have is to not be suspected as a threat by anyone, especially by police. That is the sh*t black men and black women have to deal with in a color-feared society. This isn’t whining. This is no delusion. THIS IS REAL!!
I’m just curious as to where Churchs got that information about the boy’s record and the claim that Kimani had a gun. Why he didn’t upload a link to it. I don’t want to jump to conclusions, but that sounds like something you read on a site like the Drudge Report or some other right wing site. I don’t know for sure.
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@ Sondis
Yes… as you can see, Abagond’s Kung Fu is somewhat stronger.
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@ brothawolf…“Why he didn’t upload a link to it…but that sounds like something you read on a site like the Drudge Report or some other right wing site.”
He did at 04:05:08. It came from the New York Post — same thing.
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@ King:
*sings…….Abagond was kung-fu fighting
Churchs was fast as lightning
In fact it was a little bit frightening
But Abagond banned with expert timing!
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Sondis,
You know, I respect Abagond way to much to tell Churchs and all over white-minded deviants what I really think. After Churchs finally lost it, as I knew he would sooner or later, I wanted to respond accordingly.
It’s a damn shame that anyone would find excuses to justify the murder of a child. It’s obvious that some people don’t find the murders of black youth as a major issue. In their minds black youth deserve to die…DESERVE TO DIE?!?
I don’t care what anyone says, but to think that a youth of color deserves to leave this world is the epitome of moral deficiency. Churchs proved that he is that type of person.
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Oh okay. Thanks, Deb. I don’t know how I missed it.
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And the NY Post is similar to the Drudge Report, only mildly tamer.
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@ Sondis…I swear that, “Kung Fu Fighting” song immediately popped into my head when I read King’s comment! 🙂 Nice adaptation!
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Lol! I.T. fighting
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@ brothawolf…You’re welcome, but you didn’t miss much. And no, they’re not tamer, they’re actually quite the same. The Post just plays a “real” newspaper on TV.
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lol @ Deb I try…. ^_^
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Churchs said:
Of course it is racial. I never said otherwise. All I said is that I did not make an issue of the race of the officers themselves. Because I know that next time they could well be black, even if that is less common.
Police brutality is more a case of institutional racism than personal racism. The particular race of the police officers themselves does not matter as much as some might suppose or hope. What matters far more is that the police are not accountable. They can AND DO get away with murder. Literally. East Flatbush, for example, has next to no institutional power to get those officers removed, much less put behind bars.
A deeper issue is that American policing, like the Klan, has roots in the slave patrols and was pretty much untouched by the civil rights reforms of the 1960s. Because, like in slave times, deep down whites are afraid that blacks will cut their throats if given the chance.
That was the polite version of my opinion.
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@ King…“I.T. fighting” — now that’s funny! 🙂
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Kiwi, very good point, those two police can pass for white. Abagond brings up a interesting point, that its more about institutional racism, than personal, racism.
I did jump the gun and assume the cops that shot the child was white, simply because, 99.9999% of the time, a white cop is at the other end of the smoking gun, that killed a black person. sue me…. -_-
The media is already, pointing out with great satisfaction, that both cops were, minorities. This proves nothing, being its an exception and not the rule, that the majority of white cops, kill black people and not the other way around.
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Too much he say she say to know anything. According to reports, his cousin said he was holding a gun for a friend so…who knows.
I don’t think an independent investigation is asking too much.
The justice system has no credibility, so of course people are going to be suspicious whenever they are involved. You can’t say bad cops are giving all cops a bad name when you won’t bring the bad cops to justice. It’s not just the bad cops but the entire system that protects them.
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Many non-WASP “not quite white” people adopt “white” attitudes about blacks. It is part of the process by which non-WASP people become white. Those two police officers probably had to adopt some “white” attitudes and beliefs just to survive in an organization that is rife with institutionalized racism.
It includes starting with the “at least I am not black” attitude that helps them earn some kudos from more assimilated (or assimilated into WASP culture) whites. It follows by being a little more obvious about their showing disdain for blacks that gains attentions from assimilated whites.
I remember my father making derogatory remarks about blacks within earshot of whites with the subconscious desire to make himself a bit more acceptable to white people. This was effective in the 1950s – 1980s period (especially pre-affirmative action) but backfired by the early 90s as they became within earshot of some blacks, getting him fired.
I suspect that the police still operate in a time warp — they still operate with the attitudes and beliefs more common to the 1970s.
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jefe, very well put, you said what i was thinking but couldn’t find the words.
Abagond’s post on “How to become white” illustrates this phenomenon.
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Also “the White Club”
I bet most non-WASP and non-white police officers feel obligated to join the club if they are accepted into the police force. This must be a difficult dilemma especially for black police officers who must try to join the club while they are still black.
I suspect a similar phenomenon applies to immigration officers who might be perceived as being “perpetual foreigners”. They have to be tough and nasty to perceived “foreign” visitors and residents to demonstrate that they themselves are different from authentic foreigners.
I put both police officers and immigration officers on a similar “nasty to join the club” lists, but police officers seem to be far more brutal.
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@ jefe and Sondis…IMHO, nobody’s addressed this “hierarchy of human life” better than Mr. James Baldwin in his essay, “On Being White…And Other Lies”: http://engl101-rothman.wikispaces.umb.edu/file/view/On+Being+White+and+Other+Lies.pdf
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“Up until 1998, the data released by the NYPD on police shootings included information regarding the race of the victim. Compiled reports for 1996 and 1997 revealed that almost 90% of persons shot by police officers were either black or hispanic”
http://www.fastcase.com/nypd-sued-for-stats-on-race-in-police-shootings/
If it was 90% in 1998, imagine what it is now.
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Agree.
Are New Yorkers just going to continue to sit on their arse about this?
Well, maybe I shouldn’t talk. I haven’t lived in New York for many years but I am registered to vote there. I guess I should do something too. 😛
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Its amazing how having a gun is illegal in New York is illegal and the violence is so high, but places where it is legal to carry a weapon have lower rates. Something that could get a kid killed in NY, is something normal everywhere else (mostly the south). Just thinking…
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Uh sorry for typos. I was saying that its amazing how having a gun is illegal in NY and the violence is so high…
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Church’s is like those multiple headed monsters in mythology, you slice the heads of and it just sprouts more heads. We have not heard the last of the monster called Churches. He is a shape shifter. He will show up as a sock puppet. Just when you thought it was safe to go outside the beast will show back up. Church’s is just a hate filled monster with a gigantic chip on his shoulder. He hates black people.
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@ cleonette
GIRL!!! Where have you been? The board was a bit strange without you.
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On another subject, there is a price to be paid when one gives up their rights to bear arms. On that same note, elections have consequences in that we continue to elect those same very officials who appear to come to to our side when one of ours is murdered by law enforcement while behinds the scenes accepting directives allowing law enforcement to commit such acts, National Defense Authorization Act signed by Barack Obama 12/31/11 and 12/31/12 and DHS Lexicon, declaring Americans from all backgrounds domestic terrorists, http://pumabydesign001.com/2012/02/06/love-the-u-s-constitution-support-second-amendment-but-hate-govt-regulations-well-then-according-to-dhs-youre-a-militia-extremist/.
While we look at NYPD, law enforcement have been committing these crimes against Americans (black AND white) for decades by now that have federal directives signed by the officials elected by many of those who are dying to commit democide.
Every federal government agency has been purchasing tons of ammunition while telling us that we do not have the right to bear arms and DHS who has purchased the most ammunition just last year purchased nearly 3,000 light armored tanks for “urban warfare.” Some of these tanks have been destributed in cities across America without the permission of local law enforcement.-
So we stand there bitching about NYPD, but how long before Obama’s special military force comes rolling in….and what then?
http://pumabydesign001.com/2013/03/05/obamas-dhs-purchase-of-2717-light-armored-tanks-for-warfare-on-streets-of-america/
Unfortunately for us Kimani Gray was not the first killed by law enforcement and at this point the game,he won’t be the last. There is something going on and people need to start (i) seeing the big picture (ii) reading between the lies and the lines, (iv) demanding accountability and (v) stop living in denial.
We can go through all the dog and pony shows we want but directives like the above coming down from the White House and Homeland Security under the dark of night, those dog and pony shows are nothing more than that because what is going on and has been going on is much deeper than the death of Kimani Gray.
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This…
http://www.uscop.org/the-nypd-declares-martial-law-in-brooklyn/
or this…
We see you, Flatbush.
http://www.disappearednews.com/2013/03/brooklyns-east-flatbush-neighborhood.html
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@Mary AND Legion
I wouldn’t worry about Churchs. He or she regardless of race is just a troll.
It is sad that Kimini Gray died the way he did.
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My heart goes out to Kimani Gray’s family. He did not deserve this. No one deserves this. This poor kid wasn’t just shot. It was overkill. I pray justice is served. RIP KImani Gray. 😦
Sidenote: Churchs was banned? LMAO! 😀
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More killings to come I’m sure. Whites are gearing up for our total elimination. I also suspect that they’re itching for that end-all be-all race war.
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I get that there are always nuances, but I think that the case we recently had here in CA really demonstrates the kind of thing that happens all the time in lower profile cases but never get widely reported.
http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lanow/2013/02/ex-cop-manhunt-newspaper-delivery-women-shot.html
Two latino women who didn’t match any description given, in a truck that didn’t match the description shot up like Bonnie and Clyde. The only reason that both women aren’t as dead as Kimani Gray is that they had stacks of newspapers in the back seat that stopped most of the bullets. But this is an example of how cops overreact to perceived threats even when they have no connection to any real threat. had this not been tied to such a high profile case, it would soon be a case of the women tried to run over an officer and that’s why they opened fire, or some such lie.
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latina women… not latino women!… (sigh)
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Heartbreaking story. But one we’ve heard way too many times. Whether its Emmitt Till or Trayvon Martin. Black people are in a prison living in this country. How much has really changed??
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I didn’t read all the posts, but why can’t people just consider that it could be a “both-ander.” Why can’t it be that Kimani was a thug AND the cops are thugs? Also, there seems to be little effort to contextualize the killing. Most of the people killed by cops are black (and Latino) because they commit most of the violent crime. In NY, for instance, blacks and Latinos commit NINETY PERCENT of the murders while making up about 40% of the population. Asians, on the other hand make up 12% of the population… but commit THREE PERCENT of the murders.
You can cry racism day and night (and i have NO DOUBT that many cops are racist and otherwise corrupt), but one has to come to grips with the nature of contemporary black culture. It breeds criminality, violence, impulsiveness, and stupidity. The focus here should be on HOW DOES ONE CHANGE a culture that is on the bottom of virtually all social indicators. When the values of black culture change, then people will treat black folk better—and even if they ar not treated better, they can at least feel better about themselves.
I talk about this some more here:
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@ inthisjournal
Your whole comment makes the worth of black life conditional. Which is itself racist, profoundly so. You dehumanize blacks – by making them the sum total of their social indicators – to excuse police brutality. Good show.
More:
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inthisjournal is still basing his research on magazine articles from the 1960s which describe the “culture of poverty” theory, explaining the factors that define moral character. Since the 1990s, this is no longer the school of thought, but culture of poverty is now attributed primarily to racism and isolationism.
Anyhow, this is irrelevant to what happened. Cops gunned down a teenager minor who had committed no crime, nor attempted to do so.
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Yeah, i do agree with one thing inthisjournal said about culture. He had it backwards, though.
its white supremacist culture, via racism that has led the black community in poverty and therefore high crime rates.
I’ve heard this music before and quite honestly, I’m tired of this broken record by whites.
There is always conditions to be met for a black person to become a victim, not so for a white person, they are always a victim.
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Can we see some evidence that “Mourad Mourad” and “Jovaniel Cordova” are members of the long gone KKK? Somehow I doubt, but you know that klan activity has Brooklyn as it’s hotbed, no doubt it’s packed with Arabs.
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“It’s the crime stupid!” Thus read the first line of an e-mail I received a few weeks ago.
This particular love note came from someone who had run across an old article of mine in which I had discussed racism in the criminal justice system: specifically the racially disparate rates of incarceration for persons of color, over and above the rates for whites.
In this one sentence, all the weight of white America’s racial anxiety and hostility was poured out into my web browser, the implication being that there was no racism in the justice system, but rather, that the position of African Americans within that system was merely a function of disproportionate criminality. If blacks would just straighten up, everything would be fine. As with white America’s denial of racism in labor markets, the refusal to believe that bias plays a role in policing, prosecution or incarceration is commonplace. Although white Americans are more willing to accept the possibility of discrimination in the justice system than in other areas — such as education, housing or employment — still, two-thirds according to one poll insist that blacks and Latinos are treated equally in terms of law enforcement in their communities. Would that the evidence supported such optimism. Fact is, from the earliest stages of policing to the point of being jailed, evidence of racial bias is clear and overwhelming.
According to a Justice Department report from 2001, police are more than twice as likely to search vehicles driven by blacks after pulling them over, even though whites, when searched, are more than twice as likely to be in possession of illegal items, such as narcotics (1). Latino drivers were between 2 and 2.26 times more likely to be personally searched or to have their cars searched by police (2), even though they are less likely than whites to use drugs and thus possess them at any given moment (3)
In New York City, stop-and-frisk searches by police highlight the unfair treatment to which people of color are subjected. Even after controlling for differential crime rates and the population demographics of a given neighborhood, black and Latino residents of New York are far more likely to be stopped by police than whites (4). In mostly white parts of town, blacks are 2.25 times more likely to be stopped and searched on suspicion of weapons possession and three times more likely on suspicion of having committed a violent crime, relative to their arrest rates for those crimes. In other words, the fact that blacks have higher rates of offending in those categories does not explain the higher stoppage rates. The above-mentioned disproportions reflect the level of unequal treatment that remains after factoring in all the non-racial reasons that could explain searches. In heavily black parts of town, one would obviously expect most persons stopped by police to be black, as this would merely reflect local population demographics and probable crime rates in the area. But once again, even after controlling for those factors, blacks in mostly African American neighborhoods are still more than twice as likely as whites to be stopped by police on suspicion of weapons possession or the commission of a violent crime.
Perhaps most telling, police appear more likely to stop innocent blacks than whites. For every 4.6 whites stopped in 1997-1998, for example, police were able to make one arrest, meaning that roughly 22 percent of the time their suspicions were justified. Even this is not a very impressive percentage but it is far better than that for blacks. Police had to stop 7.3 blacks before making a single arrest, meaning that only 14 percent of the time was their suspicion justified. In all, whites stopped were more likely to actually be guilty of having committed a crime and yet the NYPD continued to disproportionately stop people of color.
Bias hardly ends at the point of police arrest or harassment, however. Black incarceration has exploded several times over, even while black crime has plummeted in the past twenty years (5). (And no, this is not because the incarceration itself has caused the black crime rate to plummet: crime has dropped just as much if not more in states with less punitive anti-crime tendencies) (6). Interestingly, while black and Latino crime, as a share of all crime is hardly different than in 1964, the share of persons incarcerated who are persons of color has risen from one-third to two-thirds in that period, while the share who are white has been cut in half (7).
Comparing crime data from the FBI (which includes only those crimes reported to law enforcement), with Justice Department data on criminal victimization (culled from victim reports, and which include crimes not reported to police), makes clear that black crime rates cannot explain the overrepresentation of African Americans in the justice system. Although black crime rates are higher than those for whites (for reasons that studies indicate are due to socioeconomic conditions disproportionately faced by blacks, like crowded housing, extreme poverty, and community disintegration) (8), there is still evidence that blacks are arrested more often, and whites less often, than would be expected based on rates of offending.
In 2001, for example, for all violent crimes, including simple assault, blacks committed twenty-eight percent of the total, according to the Justice Department (9). Yet, African Americans comprised thirty-four percent of all persons arrested for those crimes that year, meaning that blacks were arrested at a rate that was twenty percent above their rate of offending (10). Indeed, if blacks and whites had been arrested for these violent crimes at a rate that was equal to their rate of committing them, tens of thousands fewer blacks, and tens of thousands more whites would have been arrested for violent crime in 2001. Comparing racial arrest data with racial offending data for 2001 reveals that for every 100 violent crimes committed by blacks, roughly thirty were arrested, while for every 100 violent crimes committed by whites, about 26 were arrested, meaning that white offenders were about fifteen percent more likely to get away with their offenses than black offenders (11).
In addition to black arrest rates being higher than black offending rates would justify, there is also racial disparity in terms of who gets imprisoned and who doesn’t. In New York State, according to one recent study, if blacks arrested were treated the same as whites for the same crimes, with the same priors, in the same jurisdictions, one-third of all blacks in the state sent to jail or prison annually would have been spared such a sentence. This amounts to nearly 4500 blacks sent to jail or prison each year in New York who would not have been incarcerated had they merely been white (12). In Pennsylvania, even when prior records and severity of a given crime are the same, white male offenders between the ages of 18-29 are thirty-eight percent less likely to be imprisoned than similar black males (13).
Not only are blacks more likely to be arrested and imprisoned than their crime rates would justify, but whites are much less likely to wind up in prison despite their share of serious crime. More than half of all violent crimes are committed by non-Hispanic whites, but only a quarter of today’s prison population is white, according to the Justice Department. Blacks, on the other hand, commit a little more than one-fourth of all violent crime (according to victim recollections), but comprise nearly half the jail and prison population (14).
Racial bias seems especially evident in the case of juvenile offenders. One study in Florida, for example, found that even when prior records and severity of offense were taken into consideration, equally criminal black and Latino youth were twice as likely to be confined in a juvenile facility or transferred to adult court for more serious disposition (15). Nationally, black youth are forty-eight times more likely than whites to be incarcerated for a first-time drug offense, even when all factors surrounding the crime are the same (16).
Bias is especially evident with regard to non-violent, drug related offenses. African Americans, though only thirteen percent of drug users (17) and sixteen percent of dealers (18) according to federal data, comprise more than a third of all drug arrests (19), and when convicted of low-level drug dealing, are considerably more likely to be sent to prison and for longer sentences than comparable whites (20). Although blacks and Latinos are ninety percent of persons incarcerated nationally for drugs, they represent only twenty-three percent of drug users, according to the most recent federal data. Meanwhile, whites, who are between seventy percent and three-fourths of users, comprise less than ten percent of those incarcerated for drugs (21). In all, black drug users are nearly twenty times more likely than anyone else to spend time in prison for their use, and in fifteen states, the rate of black incarceration for drug offenses is anywhere from 20-57 times greater than for whites, despite equal or greater rates of drug law violations by whites (22). Amazingly, when all other factors surrounding an arrest are the same, black cocaine offenders are twice as likely to be sent to prison and will serve, on average, forty months more than white offenders (23).
The unequal prosecution and sentencing of drug offenders has been so severe that as many as a half-million blacks may have been imprisoned since the late 1980s, above and beyond the numbers one could have expected based on their rates of drug offenses. Likewise, whites receive racial privilege in this process, since our own criminality is less likely to result in punishment, or even detection. Examining the magnitude of these privileges, just with regard to the war on drugs is instructive.
In 2000, there were roughly 750,000 arrests for drug possession in the U.S (24). If arrest rates had mirrored drug usage rates for that year, roughly seventy-six percent of those busted would have been non-Hispanic whites, while 13.5 percent would have been black. This would have translated into roughly 570,000 whites and 100,000 blacks arrested for drug possession that year.
But in truth, the numbers looked nothing like this at all. In 2000, approximately 260,000 African Americans were busted for possession: 2.6 times more than the number of blacks who would have been arrested had arrest rates followed usage rates. Although data indicates that whites were a little over sixty-four percent of all persons arrested for drugs in 2000, this figure obscures the fact that those whom the government classifies as “Hispanic” are rolled in with whites for the purpose of state level drug arrest figures, meaning that the arrest rate for persons typically viewed as “white” (at least by other whites) is far lower. Once Hispanic whites are excluded from drug arrest figures for whites as a whole, even using a conservative methodology, there were no more than 325,000 possession arrests for whites in 2000: this represents a quarter-million fewer whites arrested than would have been the case had arrest rates mirrored usage rates (25). That’s a quarter-million whites able to blaze up or snort coke in their suburban homes, office suites, dorm rooms or fraternity houses, safe and secure in the knowledge that the drug warriors will not likely be dropping by for a visit.
Interestingly, even if whites do get busted, and go to jail for a drug offense, their future prospects will remain far brighter than those for the average black man in America. As one recent study in Milwaukee discovered, when equally qualified white and black men are sent out to look for jobs, and half of each group claim to have served eighteen months in prison for possession of drugs with intent to distribute (while the other half of each group claim to have no criminal record), those whites who claim to have done time are slightly more likely to get a callback for an interview than blacks who claim to be crime-free (26). And thus the cycle perpetuates itself, with worse job prospects only increasing the likelihood of criminal behavior, which will then be used to “justify” harsher criminal justice treatment.
While it’s true that the left has often made a mess of the case for racism in the justice system — for example, by fuming that blacks are only twelve percent of the population, and yet represent roughly half of all persons incarcerated (a point that means nothing, since incarceration would logically mirror crime rates, not population demographics) — the fact remains that even with regard to actual offending rates, especially for drugs, blacks are over-arrested, over-prosecuted and over-incarcerated.
In other words, it isn’t the crime stupid; it’s the color.
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@Inthisjournal
Your whole attitude sums up why I am fighting against institutionalized racism and White racism at my young age.
@Sondis
I agree
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inthisjournal,
I didn’t read all the posts, but why can’t people just consider that it could be a “both-ander.” Why can’t it be that Kimani was a thug AND the cops are thugs? Also, there seems to be little effort to contextualize the killing. Most of the people killed by cops are black (and Latino) because they commit most of the violent crime. In NY, for instance, blacks and Latinos commit NINETY PERCENT of the murders while making up about 40% of the population. Asians, on the other hand make up 12% of the population… but commit THREE PERCENT of the murders.
Oh hell no!
First off, why should we consider that Kimani was a thug in the first damn place? And even if what you said about blacks committing most of the violent crime is true, that’s still NO excuse for police to kill them. Where do you even get your stats from? We’ve heard this crap a million times from other people who excuse and justify the murders of young blacks. Yet, multiplying the same old BS a million times doesn’t make it any more true.
You can cry racism day and night (and i have NO DOUBT that many cops are racist and otherwise corrupt), but one has to come to grips with the nature of contemporary black culture. It breeds criminality, violence, impulsiveness, and stupidity. The focus here should be on HOW DOES ONE CHANGE a culture that is on the bottom of virtually all social indicators. When the values of black culture change, then people will treat black folk better—and even if they ar not treated better, they can at least feel better about themselves.”
Oh double hell no!
Contemporary black culture does not breed crime, violence, impulsiveness and stupidity. It never has. So, let’s get that straight. Violence, crime, impulse and stupidity is part of humanity, specifically in American culture where this nation is loaded with so many dysfunctions due to racism, materialism, sexism, homophobia, Islamophobia, and any other kinds of social isms and phobias you can think of while denying it all.
Bottom line: Black people are not the cause of black youth dying from violence. It’s the culture of violence and racism that has spawned, excused and justified the slow genocide of black youth. The only people who seem to care most of are other black people who live in those areas and trying to making a difference. They are actively out there trying to fight the dynamic as best as they can.
What have you done to help the crisis? If you haven’t done anything, then I suggest you wouldn’t type anymore because not only do you want to render black lives as worthless while embarrassing yourself exposing your ignorance of black culture, but you probably haven’t lifted a finger to end it. So, it would be wise if you would not say another word.
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He din do nuffins! He good keeid!
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@Chandaleir
Watch out, you could get banned for having the word “c**n” in your name and writing in (very bad) fake Ebonics. You might want to go someplace where stupidity is more permitted.
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“He din do nuffins! He good keeid!”
Churchs family?
Sondis, I think you were on the money with this, Brother!: “I’ll expect to see, churcs via a sock puppet, soon as possible. ^_^” {smdh}
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@ deb….. You beat me to to it. I was just about to ask is this church’s?
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ah some more of the same old – I promised myself the next time ,I would not be so sypmathiec after years of hearing these same people (so called my people)
call me and themselves nigger,refuse to have any but the most superficial discussion about anything much less race,economics,science ,or philosophy (ah hell na n””ger yo trying to act white” ) and
Insist on subservient flattery to these very same people who insult and murder them with impunity.
A trendy word of this era is change yet few seem to actually want it.
I’ve changed – I now could care less about those of both “sides” who show they could care less about me, and when each has its fall as we all inevitably will i’ll not weep or morn but smile a smile of grim satisfaction that justice indeed is done.
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Chandalier kind of has a point though. When a black kid gets shot by somebody non-black, there is a tendency to make an image of a totally inoffensive and even helpless child, with kiddie pictures and all. He may possibly been a gang member, maybe not, but if he was he must have hurt at least a few people. When Derrion Albert (who actually was a good kid for real) was beatn to death in Chicago by other black kids, that wasn’t the cause of rioting or kkk accusations, etc.
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@Jefe,
No i am not basing my position on studies done back in the 60’s. I am simply comparing stats, reality, and the things i have observed over the years. The black underclass is a low functioning culture. It is low functioning largely because of the values of the black underclass (e.g., the normalization of illegitimacy, single parent (mother) homes, excessive impulsiveness/violence, high dependency on the government dole, anti-intellectualism/anti-academic achievement, etc.). It is for these reasons that the black underclass is incapable of competing with, let’s say, Asians (another racial minority group).
As for the talk of cultures of poverty, the Cultural Marxists and their ideology of culture/moral relativism has made the discussion of the core problem of the black underclass a thought crime in academia. Not all black people, just to let you know, are Cultural Marxists. Some can look at the situation objectively and critically.
As for the cops gunning down a young thug, who at the time ostensibly was doing no crime (according to one version of the story), my focus would be on how to prevent such incidents from occurring in the future (or at least less frequently), and i would say that can only happen when the black underclass stops engaging in astronomically disproportionate amounts of violent street crime.
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@Abagond,
I wouldn’t say that i am dehumanizing blacks, after all i am black, if that matter any. What i am doing is not romanticizing about the black underclass and it culture of social dysfunction and violent criminality. My argument is not that all black people are such. And my argument isn’t a biological predisposition for such behavior, but there is a large black underclass, and even more disconcerting is that the trends in black culture tend to come from the bottom rungs of the society. That is, the underclass tends to define the “genuine black experience.” This, i’d say, bodes very poorly for the trajectory of black America.
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You said it inthisjournal, look what happened in Houston:
http://www.khou.com/news/texas-news?fId=198985351&fPath=/news/local/&fDomain=10232
Good Lord!
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@Brothawolf,
Having three priors, including car theft and inciting a riot (assuming the reports are true) by the age of 16 pretty much classifies a person in my book as a thug and degenerate. Perhaps you have lower standards than i do.
Contemporary black culture is pretty much inextricably related to popular/hip hop culture. If not from the street corner, prison cell, or the music, where do black people derive their values (the significance of religious institutions, of course, is waning in terms of a source of values for black people). The content of rap today—and we can be almost certain that rap was a significant part of Kimani’s “mental diet”—is not the same as that of Sinatra’s, Coltrane’s, or even the Sugarhill Gang’s repertoire.
When it comes to what other people are doing, i don’t see how that is relative to improving the black condition. Saying that blacks have a lower rate of alcoholism than Native Americans or that there are fewer blacks hooked on meth (presumably) than Ozarkian hillbillies means little. The focus should be upon developing a superior culture and that superiority would be based upon discipline, integrity, honor, and other virtues.
As for my personal resume, it is safer for you not to assume. It could be that my positions are the result of seasoned experience in dealing with the underclass. These positions could be a reflection of maturity after having sloughed off the standard Cultural Marxist propaganda i received in college. Just keep that in mind.
I would agree with you that there is a slow genocide going on (against black males). Given that to be the case, the intelligent thing to do would be to change one’s behavior so as not to get genocided. Not engaging in criminal and suspicious behavior would be a good start. Actually, i did a long series on this topic. Here is one of the posts:
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@Adeen,
What i would suggest is that you think about how to improve the moral condition of the black underclass. I would also suggest that you REALLY understand the power structure. In particular, i’d say that you take the time out to look at the history and agenda of Cultural Marxism. This will provide you with a clearer picture of what is going on than being on the vigilant lookout for that bugaboo of “racism.”
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@InthisJournal
Good points.
This is my take: Not all Blacks are poor or on welfare. Many of us are successful at what we do in our career and businesses. However All racial minorities struggle with institutionalized racism some point in their lives whether they become successful in life or become failures. But we, as a community, need to protect our Black boys more. They are very vulnerable in a society where they are seen as thugs and criminals because of the fact that they are Black. I find it sad that Kimini Gray has died just like Trayvon Martin.
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@ inthisjournal…“I wouldn’t say that i am dehumanizing blacks, after all i am black, if that matter any.”
Given your obviously trained use of the language of the oppressors, i.e. “The black underclass is a low functioning culture. It is low functioning largely because of the values of the black underclass (e.g., the normalization of illegitimacy, single parent (mother) homes, excessive impulsiveness/violence, high dependency on the government dole, anti-intellectualism/anti-academic achievement, etc.). It is for these reasons that the black underclass is incapable of competing; cops gunning down a young thug; when the black underclass stops engaging in astronomically disproportionate amounts of violent street crime; the black underclass and it culture of social dysfunction and violent criminality; there is a large black underclass, and even more disconcerting is that the trends in black culture tend to come from the bottom rungs of the society.” — as well as your need to defend via, “My argument is not that all black people are such.” — no, it doesn’t matter at all (at least to me) that you are Black.
Taking a snippet from Mbeti: “I now could care less about those of both “sides” who show they could care less about me”
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Adeen,
Good response, and we also need to protect black girls as well.
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@ mary burrell…“You beat me to to it. I was just about to ask is this church’s?”
Just seemed too obvious to me.
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Deb,
If inthisjournal is indeed black as he says he is, he’s one of the lost ones. He thinks the problem facing blacks is due to black culture. That’s just a cop out to avoid real issues like oppression and racism.
This guy seems to get his information from “race realists”, right wing conservative websites, local news and mainstream rap videos. The sentiments are nothing new though as it’s been that myth for many years. Yet, people like him choose to believe it without question. You may be looking at a sheep from a large flock or white-minded followers who devalues black life.
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Sondis,
I have always had a hard time understanding the reasoning that black people murder each other because they are poor. What is it? A guy wakes up in the morning and says: “Shoot, i’m broke and white folk hate me. I think i’ll go out and murder black person to relieve my poverty and feel better about myself.”
If you look at the poorest white state in the country (West VA), and dem folks dar be po’), they had a murder rate of 4.3 per 100,000. That put them smack dab in the middle of the country regarding murder rates (and their 3.1 rate the year before would’ve made them 34th in the nation). No, the problem isn’t poverty or lack of education (which both the hicks in WVA suffer from). The problem lies in values. In black street culture, life is cheap. We all know that. That is why the murder rate is so astronomically high in inner city black neighborhoods. The issue at hand is what is to be done to change the course of the culture… and i assure you begging white folk and Asians to embrace or at least normalize this pathological behavior isn’t the solution.
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You are stuck in the 70’s with that rhetoric. Those sentiments are new, your are the stale ones of racismracismracismracism, blahblah, etc. Keep ignoring them at your own peril.
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I intended that comment for brothawolf by the way, not inthisjournal.
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Brothawolf,
What am i saying that is inaccurate? I wanna understand. Black males: 6% of the population (that includes all ages) commit more than 40% of the murders. Usually these murders are black on black. How is it that white men (or women) are forcing this males to kill each other? The problem is in a culture that has low regard for human life… even for those of the same tribe.
To set the record straight, i don’t have an agenda to deny racism. Racism, however, is a profitable business (that’s why it flourishes). Those who benefit from racism have no vested interests in seeing its demise. My focus would be on developing a culture that can surmount the obstacles of racism, so that one is not relegated to the bottom rungs of the society, This method has worked for the East Asians and the Jews. And it works pretty well for African immigrants.
Crying about racism and always using it as an excuse not only gets tired, it gets embarrassing. Crying to institutions to stop racism still keeps black people dependent upon those institutions for protection… kinda like the Big House 21st century style. It just ain’t a manly way to roll. My advice: acknowledge that racism exists, but focus on developing a superior culture that will make it practically impossible for racists to hold you down.
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Great churchs is banned i just hope he doesn’t create another account,i have a feeling dave might be next muahhaha.
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@ brothawolf…“You may be looking at a sheep from a large flock or white-minded followers who devalues black life.”
I agree — in other words, one of the many “bleeple,” looking for love in all the wrong places. {smdh}
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Adeen,
There is NO DOUBT that the young males need to be protected from a racist system that is out to target them. After all, the privatized prison-industrial complex needs bodies. Not hanging out on the street corner at 11 pm with a group of (presumably) males would be a good start—especially, when you know you live in a city that has at least an unstated policy to target blacks. Kinda common sense to me.
As for seeing young black males as thugs, well, we can’t order people to ignore the stats. Black males commit A LOT of violent street crime. Black males who are actually not part of the thug-set are going to be judged as such until the black leadership stops standing up and defending this degenerate underclass culture (and be underclass, i don’t necessarily mean poor—there are poor folk who genuinely are trying to do better).
Instead of defending this class–that terrorizes the very black males who are trying to get out and do better–black leadership needs to alienate this underclass to let EVERYONE know that these lowlifes don’t represent black people. This can be done AT THE SAME TIME that racism is being addressed. These aren’t mutually exclusive options. We condemn racism and we condemn black goonery (which is responsible for faaaaaaar more black deaths every year than the whole history of the Klan).
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M-m-m-h/
inthisjournal claims that he bases his analysis on stats, reality and observation,
I don’t know what kind of reality he has been living in, but it does not seem like he has had that much direct contact with either the “black underclass” or Asian Americans. He is selecting stats and “observations” (and I am very wary about what those observations are) to try to confirm stereotypes about those groups.
After I witnessed and experienced what many cops do, I have concluded that their mission could not possibly be to protect the greater community. They appear to be on a mission to harass and terrorize people.
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It’s crazy to me how people can judge someone’s past and determine if they deserved to die.Kimani had a record,so what, there are plenty of kids who get into trouble but they don’t deserve to die.They deserve the chance to grow up and mature, and learn from their mistakes.When you’re a black male you can’t make any mistakes or its game over.I see white kids on americas most wanted or dr phil, who disrespect their parents and run away,then they get pimped out.I don’t think any kid deserves death or to be abused based on how they have acted,they deserve a second chance and need discipline.Who are you to judge and say someone deserved what they got especially when they are young and are still learning.I’ve seen some people who were ”bad” and turned their life around when they got older.
The cops who shot him had records too,they cost the state about 215k worth of settlements.Witnesses also said they saw one of them stand over him while he was on the ground and shot him. This isn’t the first time something like this has happened and sadly it won’t be the last.
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@Deb,
If all the white people were to stop being racist (or if all the white folks were to disappear but the nation’s infrastructure were to remain) do you think that the black underclass would suddenly become a high functioning group of people? Do you think you would see a radical drop in crime in the predominantly poor black neighborhoods (meaning predominantly black prior to the disappearance of white folk)?
Let’s imagine another scenario. If the black underclass suddenly appeared to be white, do you think their new appearances would radically change their social class and their level of functioning in society? Or do you think that it would be their BEHAVIOR that would cause them to be segregated to the lower tiers of the society?
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Jefe,
Again, it’s not an either-or proposition. Both (many of) the cops AND THE THUGS terrorize folks in the poor black neighborhoods. The thugs do A WHOLE LOT MORE killing, but for the cops, it is assumed (in theory) that they shouldn’t be like the thugs.
As for stats, i don’t know what i’ve posted that is counter-intuitive, much less contrary to statistics. As for stereotypes, people (meaning Cultural Marxists) keep using this word as if it is a bad thing. Stereotypes stick usually because they conform to human experience. If i were talking to a young black kid from the hood, and i wanted to talk about sports, i wouldn’t ask him about water polo or squash. It could be that he’s a prodigy in both sports… but probably not. I’d be better off asking him which NBA team he liked. The problem is when someone thinks that the stereotype must hold true in all cases.
Regarding Asian Americans (meaning East Asian Americans), no i don’t know many. But statistically they out perform virtually all other races/ethnic groups in things like IQ, academic achievement, income, and other positive social indicators. As for the black underclass, i’ve been living in the hood since the mid-90’s both in the big city Northeast and in the country ghetto har in Memphis, with the exception of living overseas for about a year and a half.
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Even at absolute best for the police this is an iffy scenario, say everything went as they claimed, that the kid was some hardcore gangster sort that pulled out his gun, can’t say he fired it like they claimed since it had no discharge apparently, and the police started firing at him before he pulled the trigger.
After he was down on the ground and not fighting back, there is no excuse for walking up and firing into his stomach a few more times or even just one more time.
No matter how you look at it, this was improper behavior.
And going by every other version not being told from the angle of the polices best interest pretty much comes down to cops taking there chance to execute someone for shits and giggles. And of course the possibility of endangering innocents as well.
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InthisJournal has a point; culture does influence poverty and tendencies towards violence.
Cut out White people and Black people from the crime list and what do you see? That all other race groups are by and large notably less murderous or violent than we are.
And culture influences poverty as well; not all asian cultures that come to the Us do well, not even all white cultures in the US prosper, take the Scotch-Irish, they exist on the same economic level as most black people in the US and pretty much always have.
That being said; obviously racism is only going to make things a lot worse.
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Q21,
You are stuck in the 70′s with that rhetoric. Those sentiments are new, your are the stale ones of racismracismracismracism, blahblah, etc. Keep ignoring them at your own peril.
Who says they are new? New to who? You? And what do you know about racism?
inthisjournal,
What am i saying that is inaccurate? I wanna understand. Black males: 6% of the population (that includes all ages) commit more than 40% of the murders. Usually these murders are black on black. How is it that white men (or women) are forcing this males to kill each other? The problem is in a culture that has low regard for human life… even for those of the same tribe.
And you base this statistic off of what?
White men are not telling black men to kill each other. But white supremacy and its history has created an atmosphere of hatred, self-hatred, minimal opportunities and hopelessness.
Do you honestly think the black community is content with these harsh realities as being a part of black life without any origin? If so, you need to take your head out of your a**.
To set the record straight, i don’t have an agenda to deny racism. Racism, however, is a profitable business (that’s why it flourishes). Those who benefit from racism have no vested interests in seeing its demise. My focus would be on developing a culture that can surmount the obstacles of racism, so that one is not relegated to the bottom rungs of the society, This method has worked for the East Asians and the Jews. And it works pretty well for African immigrants.
In one paragraph you say you don’t deny racism. But then, you can say it doesn’t explain why some blacks are at the bottom. You’re talking out of both sides of your mouth. You know that? You say racism exists, but do not see it as a contributing factor behind disenfranchised black communities. Come on.
Crying about racism and always using it as an excuse not only gets tired, it gets embarrassing. Crying to institutions to stop racism still keeps black people dependent upon those institutions for protection… kinda like the Big House 21st century style. It just ain’t a manly way to roll. My advice: acknowledge that racism exists, but focus on developing a superior culture that will make it practically impossible for racists to hold you down.
So, when someone is disrespected at a job or place of business, we’re not suppose to let it be known?
And who says blacks haven’t tried to develop such a culture only to be attacked by the powers-that-be who doesn’t want to see it happening? Maybe you should learn history to see how everytime black people rise, white American society will see to it that it gets brought down.
It’s not to say that we’ve given up. It means that no matter how many times we are knocked down, we get back up again.
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I tell ya, these pseudo-intellectual bigots are a trip.
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If you buy into the “model minority” stereotype and feel comfortable quoting stats here and there to confirm the stereotype, then obviously you are either terribly misinformed, have no clue behind the meaning of those statistics, or both. How can we possibly trust that you understand the meaning behind the statistics plucked out to confirm the stereotype assertions about the black underclass?
The “model minority” stereotype is very misleading and is actually harmful. Please do not use it to validate any hypothesis about the black underclass.
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@inthisjournal
You’ve raised some very interesting and important points.
The reason for my initial comment on this post.
“What am i saying that is inaccurate? I wanna understand. Black males: 6% of the population (that includes all ages) commit more than 40% of the murders. Usually these murders are black on black. How is it that white men (or women) are forcing this males to kill each other?”
@Jefe,Brothawolf,etc
I don’t have an answer ,but there must be one and I’d like to see/hear and/or help find it.
BTW I’m a lifetime member of that “underclass” .
I never understood and still don’t ,why most of “my people” don’t go to the free public library regularly,learn about and have interest in things other than superficial sports and entertainment.
It does not mean your a coward(buster) or square(although to be fair I don’t see the need nor rationale to be flashy and trendy 24 f””king 7).
And to claim that you are acting “white” is to allow racist whites to appropriate (take ownership) of traits that not only all humans possess and share but even a good portion of biological life.
Traits like logic,coherence,morality etc etc
So here we are.
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@ inthisjournal…“If all the white people were to stop being racist (or if all the white folks were to disappear but the nation’s infrastructure were to remain) do you think that the black underclass would suddenly become a high functioning group of people?”
First of all, let me preface my reply by saying that — I do not now, nor have I ever, characterized MY people as “the black underclass” as you have. That said, unlike you, I know that my people, have been and continue to be a “high functioning” group! All one need do, is read some non-European books and look around at all the appropriation of Black/African culture that exists, among ALL Western, allegedly “civilized” nations.
It is bleeple like you, who prefer to aid and abet the burying of those truths, that would assist in the self-esteem and confidence building needed by those who have no idea upon whose shoulders they stand (thanks to this absolutely excellent education system which teaches nothing about who we were and are — snark intended). But to answer your question, if all the white supremacists (and bleeples like you) stopped indulging in their racist constructs — the world would continue to benefit from our contributions, just as they always have.
“Do you think you would see a radical drop in crime in the predominantly poor black neighborhoods?”
First, I have to ask, how do you think those neighborhoods became predominantly poor and Black (I hate the disrespect of a lower-case “b” — sue me) — by chance? Secondly, don’t tell me that you really believe “white” neighborhoods, poor or otherwise, don’t have their fair share of “crime.” Has it occurred to you that those who control “the narrative,” control the perceived outcomes?? The lame-stream media is complicit in what you are fed, Brother (if you are a Brother). Get out of the white gaze a little. Ever wonder why we always hear about the percentage of Black/Browns who are incarcerated, but never hear about the remaining percentage? I don’t watch much TV, but I tell you, that ID channel about “true crimes” is something else! And I promise you, the “percentage” of depraved crimes committed by white folk is amazing!
“Let’s imagine another scenario. If the black underclass suddenly appeared to be white, do you think their new appearances would radically change their social class and their level of functioning in society? Or do you think that it would be their BEHAVIOR that would cause them to be segregated to the lower tiers of the society?”
You have bumped your damned head! Is that your secret desire? That we “suddenly become white!” You are wa-a-a-y too concerned with class, levels and tiers, my Brother. Seems you’ve learned too well from some really scared, insecure folk, that there exists a “hierarchy of human life.” They’ve duped you.
Rather than answering that offensive question, let me leave you with Chimamanda Adichie’s, “The danger of a Single Story,” because that’s obviously what you’ve swallowed — whole (Abagond, if it doesn’t embed properly — you know my old behind has a problem with that — embed it for me please, here’s the link — http://youtu.be/D9Ihs241zeg):
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I’ve explained this point so many times here that I’ve simply run out of the necessary energy needed to explain again how racism created the problem in the first place.
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Oh god, here they come out the wood work, whenever a black child is killed, white racist always bring up, crime statistics links and point out a criminal record if one exists.
I said it before in my earlier post, if a black child/man doesn’t have a criminal record/past, then what would they say then? The black person was a criminal in a former life, through reincarnation?
We can’t even get them to shut up, when we loose a black child, no time to even grieve or get angry over the situation.
Brothawolf and jefe, i commend you both on your wisdom and wise words but i feel, those words are being wasted on white racist that don’t want to talk too you but talk at you, its going in one ear and out the other. I think all our energy and wisdom, should be geared toward our youth, that need our guidance and experience.
That’s why i have chosen to ignore them or not address them in any direct manner, i speak of them but won’t give them, what they are truly here for and that’s to confuse, aggravate, judge and talk down to black people and other people of color on this blog.
I would prefer, to talk to young black boys and girls, to warn them about the institutional racism, that’s waiting for them out in the world and on sites like this.
We change nothing by trying to educate white people, that have no intention of listening to us, explain our life experiences but we can change the lives of our own black children.
I think this is where black people have gone wrong, we have spent more time, trying to figure out how to get white people to change, instead of how we can teach our children how to get an education, so we can become self sufficient, business owners and not have to beg a white man for a job, just so we can be the last hired and the first fire for trivial things.
The key is black business ownership, this is the only way, black people will be able to rise from poverty. Asian,Indian and Hispanic people, own business in every black community in America. We as blacks are the only race, by and large don’t own any businesses.
Now that being said, its not as clear, cut and dry as it looks, (before you white racists say”this is what I’ve been saying all along, look at other minorities” )
There is and always have been a die that has been caste, to keep black people at the bottom via all kinds of oppression.
Discriminatory bank loan practices, that refuse to lend a black person a load to open a business for instance.
Most people that start their own business, use their home equity to borrow against, being only a small number of black people, own their homes, this isn’t possible, so black people are not able to accrue wealth but just enough to survive.
I can point out more but you get the point….
My brotha and sistas, leave these white folks be…I’m telling you…you’re wasting precious time, we don’t have on these fools!
We are going to be in serious trouble, coming up within a few years, its gonna get worse for black people, mark my words my friends…..
Focus on our youth, they are so lost in this white supremacist society they live in, they need guidance.
Advice them to go into business for themselves, DO NOT TELL THEM TO GO TO COLLEGE TO GET A DEGREE SO THEY CAN GET A “JOB” working for a white man, that will fire them if they look at them cross eyed.
We as black people always work in a hostile work environment, being only 1 of a hand full of blacks on a job, feeling left out and marginalized, always hitting a glass ceiling, when we want to move up the “corporate ladder”, only to be kept in one position and watch, younger white men and women, get promoted over us, when we have more experience and seniority.
Advice them to go to college, get some degrees so they can go start a business so he or she can own some land and property so we can accrue some wealth.
Business ownership will be our saving grace, not begging the white man for him/her to see their, racism.
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@ King…“I’ve explained this point so many times here that I’ve simply run out of the necessary energy needed to explain again how racism created the problem in the first place.
Trust me, I won’t expend another second explaining any of this, because, as you said, one “will simply run out of the necessary energy” — energy we can direct to those, who will benefit most.
I’m with Sondis — “We change nothing by trying to educate white people, that have no intention of listening to us…” — same for bleeples.
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@ Sondis and Deb
I’m tired tonight… but I do talk back when I can, because in talking back and refuting the ideas of racism and prejudice again and again, I am talking to young black boys and girls—not just today but as long as this blog exists in the ether of the internet. They may not be young black boys and girls that I will ever meet, or even hear of, but I would rather leave for them, recorded here, the answers to the accusations of racists that are raised then to leave my apparent silence and inability to refute their arguments.
I don’t argue with racists to try and change their narrow minds. I argue for the people out there who don’t know how to refute their points and defeat their arguments. And that is something that my indifferent silence cannot do.
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@ King…“I don’t argue with racists to try and change their narrow minds. I argue for the people out there who don’t know how to refute their points and defeat their arguments. And that is something that my indifferent silence cannot do.”
Totally understand — but, like you, I get tired. Nite, Family…
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Wait a minute. Wasn’t this thread supposed to be about Kimani Gray?
As far as I know he was not committing any crime when he was killed. So what with all the Black crime statistic and other nonsense? Didn’t Abagond create a Broken Records Department specifically for this?
Inthisjournal, Q21 and the likes are trying to turn a thread dedicated to a kid
killedriddled with bullets for the heinous crime of adjusting his f*cking belt into yet another forum about so-called Black dysfunctions. It is disrespectful and inappropriate.We don’t have to allow this.
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@ inthisjournal
You sound very much like a male version of “Jorbia” who’s also commented extensively on this blog with a similar type of naive view.
Its this notion of developing or acknowledging a “superior culture” (Racism) which, left unchecked, is destroying itself along with every other culture on the planet!
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“As for my personal resume, it is safer for you not to assume. It could be that my positions are the result of seasoned experience in dealing with the underclass.”—Unless you have dealt with every underclass, I would not be so quick to assume what the problem is if I were you.
“Given that to be the case, the intelligent thing to do would be to change one’s behavior so as not to get genocided.”—Contrary to your way of thinking many blacks have in fact made changes in their behavior. That still does not change the way they are viewed as blacks. Good blacks still get the stereotypical remarks and treatment regardless of criminal records etc. It is not ok to endure harsh treatment because of what other blacks choose to act like and behave like. Why should blacks be judged as a group and not as an individual? Same with Asians or any other minority. People want to be seen and judge on their own individual merit.
“I talk about this some more here:
http://facetofloor.wordpress.com/2012/05/21/its-the-culture-not-the-color/“—You seem more in need to promote your blog than anything. I personally would rather place my judgements on people based on the content of their character and not what skin color they are.
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@Q21
Are you going to actually provide anything to this thread or is your purpose to blow smoke up inthisjournal azz? You know what we have this magazine called jail report in our town. Would it make you feel better if I pulled it up and showed you the excessive amount of white offenders?
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According to the FBI statistics
Blacks and whites are not that far behind in the crimes they commit.
“White individuals were arrested more often for violent crimes than individuals of any other race, accounting for 59.4 percent of those arrests.”
“The percentages of white adults and black adults arrested for murder were similar, with 48.2 percent being white, and 49.4 percent being black.”
http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2011/crime-in-the-u.s.-2011/tables/table-43
Now you statistic nuts can look at this anyway you choose, but it tells me what I have been saying all along. American culture in general is destructive. The culture is built not only on racism but entitlement. When I was in a criminal justice course and we compared American Crime rate to other countries. America was the highest and at the time Japan was the lowest. While we only speculated, I believed it was because of the cultural disownment of the criminal. The fear of being outcast by society and family.
America needs to personally fix itself in general and stop blaming the problem on black culture or better yet muslim culture or whatever other culture they seek to blame it on instead of addressing the issue in this country.
Now unless someone is going to provide Kimani Gray’s criminal record (which at his age should be sealed) then calling him a thug is wrong on so many levels and it does not excuse the actions of the police officers involved.
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@Sondis
You spoke in volumes.
In education I don’t think it is that black kids are dumb or don’t want to learn etc. I think they are just not interested in the way they are being taught. Some teachers are just bad teachers where others are amazing. I read somewhere and was also told by another parent that intelligent kids can easily get bored if you are teaching them things they already know in a repetitive nature. I was this way. My teachers would constantly slow class down for kids that needed extra help and as a result I would fall asleep or just shut off. My husband was the same, but both of us had amazing grades in school. I now recognize this with my daughter but also other kids as well.
One issue in the black community that I acknowledge or rather poor community because the issue is not black orientated, is that many don’t have a solid education to help their kids with homework or the funds to tutor their kids. The kids don’t ask for help because they don’t want to seem dumb. I won’t harp on single family homes because in my area I see more and more fathers participating in the kids life. So to me this whole single mother issue is not really addressing the problem like some seem to think.
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@ Sharina
From much experience, the usual come back to that is “But Blacks are only 12.5% of the population and non-hispanic Whites are 63%!.
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@V-4
In my book cops seem like paid criminals these days. It is the sad truth and frankly anyone needs to be careful when dealing with them.
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@ King
Yea. Sadly it is, but it sad that the focus is the number and not the actual problem.
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Brotha,
Let’s try to take this back from the top. The argument about racism doesn’t hold, for black crime stats and broken families were LOWER 50 years ago when there was MORE RACISM. If racism were the root of the problem, the pathologies of the BUC (black underclass) would have been greater in the past.
As for the murder rates, black males make up 6%-6.5% of the population. Does anyone dispute that. Black males account for 40%+ of the murders. All you need to do is check the crime stats to see that. It’s not complimicated, and we all know that poor black neighborhoods tend to be hotbeds of violence an crime.
Stating that racism exists and stating that it is not the root cause of black pathology TODAY (not talking about 100 years ago) are not contradictory propositions. They both can hold true simultaneously. I don’t see why that’s hard to understand. Again, when black folk lived at an era closer to slavery and a real brutal nasty apartheid regime, you did not have the level of family dissolution that you have today. You need to look at the policies of the 60’s (and the sea change in social mores of that period).
I don’t know why you assume that i don’t know much about black history? I know about COINTELPRO, the dope from SE Asia being shipped into the hood, the blaxploitation flicks to undermine black activism—or later how the crack was shipped in and the gangsta rap replaced the more socially conscious rap. I know that… but those machinations of the power structure DON’T REMOVE PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY. The objective is the rise above circumstance. If you have forces that are working against you, then you develop MORE SOPHISTICATED means to counter those forces. Going around and having a 70% illegitimacy rate is not a more sophisticated strategy.
For the record, back in the day, i was one of those real RB&G kind of guys. Folks mature, their insight sharpens, and they realize that the improvement of a community can only begin when people make the commitment to improve themselves through discipline and self-control. No one is going to take very seriously a bunch of overly emotional impulsive black folks who burn their neighborhoods and loot the Asian stores whenever they get angry. You know that, i know that, and the folks pulling the strings know that.
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Jefe,
You guys really seem to be buried in this Cultural Marxism crap… no offense. Are you saying that East Asians (in particular, Koreans, Japanese, and Chinese) are not OVER-REPRESENTED in the elite colleges and under-represented in the prisons? Do they not IN GENERAL perform better than whites academically (which, again, utterly destroys this whole argument that blacks are at the bottom of the social hierarchy because of “racism”)? No one is arguing that ALL Asians are model citizens or that ALL black males are thugs. Nonetheless, there are different tendencies among the different racial /cultural groups, and i am saying that blacks will be better suited to compete when they change their behavior. Not a difficult argument to understand.
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@V4—Yes, racism makes the situation worse. But given that every black person knows that racism exists, then it would lead to follow that black folk need to be more disciplined if they wish to succeed.
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@Sharina
Fine, resume going on the path and thought process which hasn’t worked yet. Enjoy the continuing downward spiral.
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@inthisjournal
“As for the murder rates, black males make up 6%-6.5% of the population”–I dispute that because it is more like 12%
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@ Q21
And what thought process is that? So far my thought process works just fine seeing as I have always graduated with honors. Even in college. I don’t have a criminal record nor does my husband or any of our family. I speak, write, and even comprehend English among other languages, so tell me again what has not worked yet?
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Oh that is right Q21 you are just the know it all of black people. And do tell me who you are to judge and be a sound mind for us?
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Deb,
I am talking about CONTEMPORARY African-American culture–not ancient Nile Valley civilizations. To think that AA culture today is high functioning–in spite of what the stats say, or demographics of the prison system… or a walk thru the hood on a Friday night would tell you means that you are being a little kinda disingenuous.
As for the poor whites committing crime—yes, they commit more crime than the white middle class, but their murder rates are NOWHERE NEAR that of poor blacks. Again, take low-end white states (with almost exclusively white populations), like WVA and Maine and look at their murder rates. Although they are poor, their murder rates are at or BELOW the national average. Also, and this is another point, white folks call their trash, “TRASH.” Black folks have their trash, but folks want to sit around and romanticize about them.
As for black neighborhoods becoming poor (meaning after black folks moved in), i’d say partly b/c of white flight due to racism and partly do to white folks not seeking to be victims of hate crimes. When the white folks moved out, even if they are initially supplanted by black middle/working class the neighborhood eventually gives way to the low-end black folk. And the rest is, as they say, “history,” until the area is gentrified.
I think that you want to avoid my scenarios b/c we all know the answer. The black trash would remain black trash whether or not white racism exists or not. Their low functioning behavior does not enable them to compete with people who “have their stuff more together.”
Again none of this isn’t rocket science. Why do we have white trash? You can’t say that it’s because of “racism.” You have white trash because you have a subculture that adopts certain values/behaviors–values/behaviors which are at odds with succeeding in a post-industrial society (or for the most part succeeding in an kinda civil society).
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@ inthisjournal
Before you get to comfortable assuming that some of these individuals are black, you might want to ask them because some are Asian and some are white.
“It’s not complimicated, and we all know that poor black neighborhoods tend to be hotbeds of violence an crime. “–You are wrong because their is a difference between black neighborhoods and ghettos. Black neighborhoods are mimics of white ones except the majority owners are black. Ghettos are just that ghettos where most crime rates commence and while majority residents tend to be black, it can be well mixed in race as well.
“i am saying that blacks will be better suited to compete when they change their behavior. Not a difficult argument to understand.”—Yet whites have similar behavior are on top in competing? Yet you harp this but ignore that blacks that have up the ante and compete quite well. I just don’t get the group mentality thing. I am an individual and not to be defined by the color of my skin.
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“yes, they commit more crime than the white middle class, but their murder rates are NOWHERE NEAR that of poor blacks.” And according to the FBI crime statistics of 2011 Whites 4,000 blacks 4149. 48 vs 49.7. I would not say nowhere near. Asians and Native Americans are nowhere near.
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A child who is beaten and abused may seem to be excessively obedient to their abusive parents growing up. But years later, the effect of the abuse may cause the victim of it to act out in previously suppressed rage and anti-social behavior. One might say that it’s impossible that the abuse caused the behavior, because back when the abuse was occurring the child was very behaved, silent, and obedient. Obviously the cause of the problem must come from the poor character of the child itself, independent of the effects of any prior abuse.
Do you see why this is a bad argument?
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Dahoman,
And there are going to be more such young guys as long as “thug life” is embraced by the black underclass—but most of the body count will not be caused by itchy trigger fingered cops but by other thugs.
Sharina/King,
So y’all don’t think that since whites are five times the population of blacks, yet they commit violent crimes at the same rates that this is something telling? The problem with black culture (meaning, the underclass) is that the overall trends in black culture come from the bottom. White people, in general (i know y’all are going to runabout trying to find exceptions), don’t take Appalachian hillbillies as their role models. Black folk, on the other hand, have allowed the black trash to define the “authentic black experience.” They are the folks who are “keeping it ‘real'”.
You are right about the culture part. When you denigrate people who consistently engage in pathological behavior, it acts (in part) as a deterrent to others to do the same. The Japanese have been doing it for ages, and it wouldn’t hurt black folk to do the same.
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King,
So what you are saying is that a century after slavery, all those pent up feelings of multi-generational racism came to the surface and black culture has been on the steady decline since? That’s interesting… albeit disconnected from reality. The problem is that you had shifts in mores 100 year after the end of slavery. Black folks largely embraced those changes (i’m not talking about the movement against legal racism–i’m talking about the gutting of the black family structure by welfare and Big Guvimint), and that is the cause of this disaster we see.
So instead of saying that this pathological culture we see today is a backlash of the legacy of slavery, i’d say it’s the backlash of the plague of illegitimacy and irresponsible men breeding kids they can’t take care of. The cause is a lot more recent than something that happened 150 years ago. And the solution is pretty self-evident and immediate: demand higher moral standards from the black underclass… and everyone else, for that matter.
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Yes… Because all of the abuse stopped cold at the end of slavery.
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Sharina,
I think you need to understand the implications of your statistics better, for they are arguing against you and for me. It would naturally be expected that since there are MANY MORE white people than blacks (about five times more), then white would commit considerably more violent crimes. But the fact (or stat) of the matter is that blacks commit slightly MORE violent crime than white. That means that blacks are FIVE TIMES more likely to commit violent crime than whites.
Asians are under-represented in violent crimes. And Native Americans have such a paltry population that their numbers don’t add much to the overall number of violent crimes committed. Given the latter’s VERY high rate of alcoholism, i’d imagine that they are somewhat over-represented in violent crimes, but it’s not something i’ve checked.
The point with black culture is that you have, essentially, a breakdown of civilization. Again, the trends come from the bottom up (it’s enough to compare an “Ebony” magazine from 1983 to today). Given that the underclass is in such a deplorable state, it does not bode well for the next generation of functioning African-American. You have that, and of course, those folks behind the curtain who are normalizing this black trash culture.
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@ inthisjournal
“So y’all don’t think that since whites are five times the population of blacks, yet they commit violent crimes at the same rates that this is something telling?”—As I have previously stated that crimes rates are telling about America culture in general. I don’t really focus on one race flaw over the other considering this is suppose to be America not White America or Black America.
Do you really think the amount of people in the population changes the amount of people that decided to commit crimes? Let us say whites are 12% of the population. Does that change the 48.2% of individuals that decided to commit the crime?
“White people, in general (i know y’all are going to runabout trying to find exceptions), don’t take Appalachian hillbillies as their role models.”–In the country hillbillies are very kind and generous people. Education wise they could expand their palate but personality wise they are just fine. In fact some of my closest white friends are hillbillies.
“Black folk, on the other hand, have allowed the black trash to define the “authentic black experience.” They are the folks who are “keeping it ‘real’”.”—Actually If you are referring to ghetto mentality, it is about getting money and quick money at that, which again is not a black thing, but a gang thing. Something that does not define me or my family nor any black families I know personally so not sure how this has become the “authentic black experience.” It really is nothing more than media stereotypes and frankly goes back to America and it’s culture of raise my kids on the TV. Just because someone dresses and talk a certain way does not dictate how they think either. I met a guy from the ghetto that was straight A’s and wanted to be a computer tech when he graduated. Looking at him you would think thug, but talking to him you would think computer genius.
“The Japanese have been doing it for ages, and it wouldn’t hurt black folk to do the same.”–No it wouldn’t but like I said it is not a black thing but an American thing.
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King,
It isn’t whether the abuse stopped cold as much as black people adopting a dysfunctional/pathological culture, in particular beginning in the 1960’s wherein illegitimacy ceased to be stigmatized and eventually became the norm. A black man’s inability to keep his program out of the gash has nothing to do with white racism—it’s a moral problem.
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@ inthisjournal
I think you are running your mouth so much that you have no idea what I am saying. I am not arguing for one group over the other. So the statistics just simply prove my point that no group is in a position to say one is better than the other or is more in tune with the right. So their is more whites. Let’s pretend that whites are 12% and blacks are 63%. Will it make the 48% that committed crimes obsolete? I am speculating but those same individuals probably would have still committed their crimes of choice. They would still be in the same situation. An American cultural problem.
“But the fact (or stat) of the matter is that blacks commit slightly MORE violent crime than white. “—Now you say slightly more when you attested to nowhere near.
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Sharina, you are misunderstanding something here. Saying that 48.2% of whites commit violent crime is not the same as saying that 48.2 % of violent crime is committed BY whites. There’s a HUGE difference between those two statements.
I also think that this 48.2% of violent crimes being committed by whites also includes Latinos (who somehow–someway–get honorary white status in some cases), for if you add you the black violent crime percentage with the white, that accounts for almost all violent crimes in the country.
As for the hillbillies, i don’t doubt that some of them are quite friendly… still white America does not, in general, take them as role models. Also the anecdotal doesn’t hold much weight. As for gangs, again, black males are disproportionately represented in the ranks of gangs. As for talking and dressing, show up to a job interview with a mouf full of gole teef and tats on your faces and drawers showing crackage and try to convince your potential employer that the way you dress and speak has no bearing on how you think.
Lastly, the violence thing—compared to, let’s say Western Europe–it is high… although since blacks commit about half the violent crime, the numbers are somewhat inflated. When we look at what culture IN AMERICA is normalizing this violent street culture, it isn’t the Amish.
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Yes, that’s what I always say about the adult survivors of child abuse. It’s not so much that the abuse had any effect on the, they just choose to adopt the dysfunctional culture completely on their own! It’s solely a moral problem of the abused child.
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Sharina,
To answer your question:
“Let’s pretend that whites are 12% and blacks are 63%. Will it make the 48% that committed crimes obsolete?”
Yes, it would RADICALLY change things. It would mean that whites would commit less than TEN PERCENT of the violent crimes and blacks would commit more than 90% of the violent crimes.
You can look at places like Chicago and NYC where blacks and Latinos make about 50% of the population but commit NINETY to NINETY-FIVE PERCENT of the murders. That means that whites and all others commit 5-10% of the murders, although they are half the population.
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King,
So blacks are children who can’t be held responsible for their actions??? Mayn, if the Antebellum white folk only had you to stand up and be an advocate for their cause, we might’ve avoided the Civil War and the Candylands might still be standing.
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@ inthisjournal
“There’s a HUGE difference between those two statements.”–And what is the difference? I figured since you know then you would have explained that.
” also think that this 48.2% of violent crimes being committed by whites also includes Latinos (who somehow–someway–get honorary white status in some cases), for if you add you the black violent crime percentage with the white, that accounts for almost all violent crimes in the country.”—Yet you are quick to chunk in Hispanics who may be claimed as black into black crimes?
“As for talking and dressing, show up to a job interview with a mouf full of gole teef and tats on your faces and drawers showing crackage and try to convince your potential employer that the way you dress and speak has no bearing on how you think.”—I don’t know where you live, but the gold teeth thing is out and on top of that most blacks are in the fitted pants stage with slight sag and not the full on sag. You know the old white boy skater look.
“s for gangs, again, black males are disproportionately represented in the ranks of gangs.”—And what statistic says that?
“although since blacks commit about half the violent crime, the numbers are somewhat inflated. When we look at what culture IN AMERICA is normalizing this violent street culture, it isn’t the Amish.”—So your focus is violent street crime and culture rather than violent crime in general. Thank goodness because I though all those repeated incidents of white men and young men killing schools of innocent individuals was just grand. No way that is a problem in America culture just Black crimes.
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Black crime stats are off topic here.
It is one of the brokenest of broken records. It has been debated TO DEATH on this blog.
For those who STILL want to debate it, please report to the Broken Record Dept and find the appropriate thread:
Black social pathologies are also off topic here, another broken record, one of the Four Pillars of White Racism since the 1970s. There is a thread for that too in the BRD.
What IS on topic is the case itself, of course, police brutality and whether the reputed ills of the black community (crime, pathology, hip hop culture, anti-intelectualism, What I saw on “Cops”, etc) excuses gunning down 16-year-old black boys.
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@ inthisjournal
My response to you will be in the broken record department.
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@ inthisjournal
Jefe is right about the roots of your thinking. Whether you know it or not, it comes out of the white racist sociology of black ghettos done in the 1960s:
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Jefe said:
Co-sign.
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I will co-sign that as well. While I don’t usually harp on statistics to prove anything, I am allowing this to get away from my previous thinking in regards to statistical matters.
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@ King
You were very spot on in regards to how they handle statistics.
In regards to the thread, why is the victim always to blame? Anytime a person (especially blacks) is killed you always have individuals that want to blame the victim and bring up what they should have or should not have done. If you think about it it is the exact same with rape victims which is why I believe that this system that America was built on is faulty.
Not to mention that cops are just corrupt. I remember taking a criminal justice course that really cracked opened the seams of cop racism and brutality. How the corruption of certain police forces went all the way to the top. Some so bad that they had to fire everyone and just start over. It would not surprise me in this case if the corruption and cover-ups did not reach to the very top.
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@ Matari
I will respond to you post in broken record as it got deleted here.
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@ inthisjournal
Lovely. We are talking about the murder of a 16-year-old boy by the police but the Moral Problem being discussed lies not with the killers but with black fathers. This from a commenter who prides himself on what? Right, someone who “can look at the situation objectively and critically.” Yet repeats self-serving white racist stereotypes and Republican talking points as profound truths.
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@ inthisjournal
For someone who acts like she is so concerned about black crime, you are turning a huge blind eye to how the police destroy their trust and therefore effectiveness with cases just like this one. How did the police NOT become the issue in a case of police brutality?
Instead of talking about, say, the racial profiling that led to Kimani Gray’s death, you talk about the lyrics of the songs you ASSUME he listened to.
Your comments amount to white supremacist apologetics dressed up as Concern. Dressed up because what you have done is turned the tables and got every black person on this thread playing defence for the ills, real and imagined, of black society.
Blacks are not perfect. But in this case that is NOT where the DYSFUNCTION lies. In this case blacks are not the ones who lack discipline, integrity, honour, and other virtues, they are not the ones who committed a violent crime.
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@ Sharina
The rape analogy – excellent.
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abagond, sharina,king,Deb, kwamala and Dahoman X
Do you notice how quiet all of them are now? They have nothing to say, if it has nothing to do with criminal statistics or criminal records, instead of the actual topic at hand, the murder of a 16 year old child by two police officers.
Now, if that doesn’t reveal, their intentions for being on a black blog, i don’t know what does.
I’m glad, abagond finally cracked down on the thread and deleted those comments, returning the thread back on topic.
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@ Sondis…“Now, if that doesn’t reveal, their intentions for being on a black blog, i don’t know what does.
Truly
I’m glad, abagond finally cracked down on the thread and deleted those comments, returning the thread back on topic.”
So am I, but then again, I knew he would. I didn’t bother responding to inthisjournal’s last comment, as there was no need. Abagond’s link about the “white ethnographic gaze” pretty much summed up what needed to be said.
@Abagond…Much respect for the authority with which handle this blog (and thanks for embedding that video for me!).
@ jefe…I also co-sign your point and to this part: “After I witnessed and experienced what many cops do, I have concluded that their mission could not possibly be to protect the greater community. They appear to be on a mission to harass and terrorize people” — I would like to add the judicial system as well! I don’t hold out much hope that these officers will be punished to the full extent of the “law” for what they did to this child.
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Don’t know if this was mentioned but in regards to the stop and frisk program they have in place.
“Of the 4.4 million stops that have already been recorded, just over 86 percent of those stopped and frisked were black or Latino and 88 percent of these interactions did not lead to an arrest or citation requiring a court appearance.”—
http://www.nyclu.org/news/nypd-lodge-5-millionth-street-stop-under-mayor-bloomberg-today
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Abagond, i am curious about your definition of “racism.” Saying that some CULTURES are superior to other cultures is not the same as racism. Some cultures clearly function at higher levels than others. If the person is claiming that blacks have a low level of functioning in society b/c of their, you name it: melanin, nose breadth, hair texture, body shape, etc., i would say that is “racist,” for that is ascribing their dysfunctionality to a racial characteristic. But to say that a group of people embrace values that are anti-social, violent, anti-intellectual, impulsive, etc. and it is for these reasons they find it difficult to compete with other groups, then that isn’t racist. This has something to do with their culture/values.
As for police brutality, in my IT IS A GIVEN that the cops are corrupt. Why would a person want to be a cop in the first place—of course, some do b/c they feel it is the only way to get a moderately decent paying job, but many join “the force” so they can act out their sadistic fantasies and get away with it. It is not in the interests of those people to change their behavior. However, it is in the interests of the black underclass to stop breeding prison fodder and stabilize their communities if they wish to stop getting terrorized by the police.
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I’m confused, how is “stop and frisk” even legal? The thought that a police officer, can stop you for no reason and search you, feels unconstitutional.
Talk about violating civil rights. New York, obviously doesn’t care about its black and Latino citizens, gaining no trust of the NYPD, being the only time you have contact with a NYPD officer, its being stopped and frisked, given a ticket, getting pulled over and getting arrested.
Yeah, that really does make Black and Latino people feel that the Police are there “to serve and protect” them….more like, “to harass and arrest” them.
This is how Black and Latinos feel all over America, regarding police and the lack of any kind of relationship to the community, they “serve and protect”.
Police patrol in white communities, where they don’t live, have a “relationship” to the people, they “serve and protect” they speak by saying, “hello” and carry on conversations.
I have never in my life, had a police officer, engage in a conversation and if they are talking to me, its in a rude and condescending, manner.
I am not suppose to be afraid of the police but i am, because i don’t trust them, not with me or my life.
The only thing that scares me more than a white person, is a white person with a badge……
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@Inthisjournal
Well said and good points. More Black males are killed by their own Black people than by Whites. However it doesn’t mean that us Blacks shouldn’t start protecting our Black males and Black females now. We shouldn’t excuse the coonery of our own people at all or institutionalized racism by Whites.
@Sondis
As a young, Black female, I understand that you as a Black man is afraid of the police because the police MANY TIMES not all is likely to harass and racially profile you. I am afraid of the police as well because I am afraid of being racially profiled by them as well.
”Yeah, that really does make Black and Latino people feel that the Police are there “to serve and protect” them….more like, “to harass and arrest” them.
This is how Black and Latinos feel all over America, regarding police and the lack of any kind of relationship to the community, they “serve and protect”.
Very true. In fact, I see it all the time where I live in Florida but I am originally from New York. It is a sad occurrence but it is apart of the lives of minorities like me and you.
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Adeen
Thanks for the co-sign…
By the way, I’d use another word, besides, “coonery” to describe criminals, without our community. Coon and coonery is considered a racial slur and is something that comes out of the mouths of white racists. Abagond looks for such words on his blog and will delete and warn, apon use of racial slurs.
I know you didn’t mean any harm but i just wanted to let you know about Abagond’s, rules.
Maybe buffoonery would have, sufficed. ^_^
I’m glad you’re here, reading and learning, young black sista!
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“Saying that some CULTURES are superior to other cultures is not the same as racism”—Saying it and believing it are two different things and in most cases people say what they believe. based on the definition that is racism.
” But to say that a group of people embrace values that are anti-social, violent, anti-intellectual, impulsive, etc.”—The problem is you are trying to attribute this to one group when clearly it is not. All racial groups experience this same attitudes and behavior yet none of them are experiencing the issue you claim blacks are experiencing. Which tells me that this does not and is not the reason for the black community in-house problems.
“As for police brutality, in my IT IS A GIVEN that the cops are corrupt. Why would a person want to be a cop in the first place—of course, some do b/c they feel it is the only way to get a moderately decent paying job, but many join “the force” so they can act out their sadistic fantasies and get away with it.”—Um wrong. Many join the force with the idea that they can make a change and actually maintain some order. They seek to do good. Some would be the individuals that get into the force because they secretly want to control others or have some type of power. It is actually seasoned cops that have convinced themselves that the job is dead end that impose these ideas on the young fresh rookies.
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Further more even if one group becomes “fixed” the peer pressure of other racial groups will soon tumble back over into that supposedly “fixed” group.
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@ Sondis
I don’t trust them and even after working with them I am still scared of them. In my town who you know goes a long way and if you know them they tend to give you a pass, but to get a pass based on the fact that you know me or my family raises a red flag for me. This is why I try to stay away from crime statistics because I know that if you know the right people…certain wrongs you do get dismissed without a second thought. We had a prosecutor in our area who resigned after she refused to file charges against a woman who stole from the courthouse. Their was a large outcry.
People think this stuff is just made for tv, but this stuff happens. I have witnessed it with my own eyes. I overheard a public defender say that if she believes someone to be guilty she will convince them to take a plea deal. She even said everyone that comes through her is guilty anyway. And cops, prosecutors, judges they all work together. This type of stuff really gets you thinking about our justice system. This is what America does not see or refuses to see.
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@Sondis
I agree. I wasn’t aware of the rules about such words because I hear people using the word all the time. Thanks for the suggestion.
Would you say that Kimini Gray’s murder was somehow similar to Trayvon Martin’s murder?
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@ Adeen
“We shouldn’t excuse the coonery of our own people at all or institutionalized racism by Whites. “—One thing for me is if I see a wrong then I address it. Wro9ng is wrong and the skin color of the criminal need not to be the major focal point in deciding on this. When blacks commit crimes I don’t turn the other cheek and say “oh well.” The perps family may try to hide him or her or excuse their wrongs but outside of that who makes excuses for them?
Not saying you feel this way, but talking in general can you think of one moment (aside from the family) where blacks have excused black crime? In my own life I have seen blacks feel more harsh than other races towards the said criminal. I have seen and heard of vigils and marches when a black is killed by another black. Church rallies etc. I have also seen cases of cops giving up on the case because it was just a black on black crime. Now situations come about where blacks don’t want to be killed for telling the cops information and the history of cops shows they will not and do not protect these people.
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Sharina, i believe every word, that you speak. Corruption is the justice system’s middle name. -_-
Adeen, I believe its similar on so many levels but if i had to choose one, I’d say both of their lives, were not valued in any way, whatsoever.
Laws need to be changed but its very hard to do, being that cops use every excuse and lie to justify, killing black people.
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There was actually a movie out a while back based on a true story of how police would raid black ghettos and arrest people and scare them into pleading guilty to reach some conviction rate quota. One female decided to fight and she won, but I doubt that stopped the situation from continuing. I just wish I could remember the name of that movie.
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I’ve yet to read all of inthisjournal stuck on repeat comments that generally says that black people are bad and it’s their own fault they get shot and killed by the police, but the theme of his arguments is simple: Kimani Grey deserved to get shot because he lived like a thug (according to inthisjournal) and should die like one.
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Another thing, am I the only one who noticed how inthisjournal says that racism exists one minute, but then will say that black people are their problem the next? My point exactly.
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Sharina, did the plot of the movie, revolve around her getting charged with selling drugs? I saw a movie about a black woman, that was wrongfully accused of selling drugs. I can’t remember the name, i have to run a search for the movie, i think you are referring, too.
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Brothawolf, these fools keep on with the rinse and repeat. They talk from both sides of their mouth and contradict themselves, constantly.
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@ brothawolf
I am bothered by any comment that says a teen should be shot and killed. Who is to say what this boys life was like, but I can say that cops take black attire and label it thug and then make assumptions by it. This is no excuse. Even if he was into gangs or a thug, 11 shots is overkill. They could have used a disarming technique to better assess the situation.
And no you are not the only one that notices that among other things I have noticed. He/she refused to acknowledge this damaging American culture and attributes a problem that many American families have been facing in regards to teen violence as a black only issue. Maybe I should refer him to the video games create violent behavior theory.
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sharina
I am not sure if this is the movie, you’re referring too but i saw this one awhile back. It sounds like what you were, describing.
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1152397/
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@ Sondis
Yes, that is the movie. Love it plus it reaffirms what I already know.
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Sharina, lucky guess…Nicole Beharie was very good, playing this role.
Too bad hollyweird doesn’t give many roles to actresses that look like her. -_-
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@ Sharina “People think this stuff is just made for tv, but this stuff happens.”
Sister, it is both. I’m sitting here watching “Injustice files: Hood of Suspicion.” Brother, Keith Beauchamp is covering yet another “reaching for the waistband” story — the shooting of Robbie Tolan by a white cop, while his Mama and Daddy looked on — in his own, damned driveway in Bellaire, TX, an upscale suburb of Houston (the jury found the cop not guilty by the way — said he was in fear of his life, though Tolan had no gun: http://www.nytimes.com/2010/05/12/us/12houston.html?_r=0, A judge also threw out the civil suit from Robbie & his family — same reason: http://www.chron.com/news/houston-texas/article/Judge-dismisses-lawsuit-against-Bellaire-officers-3454006.php) — I so-o-o appreciate this young brother’s work in exposing stories about us that the MSM refuses to. He, is what I thought having us in investigative journalism would look like.
Here’s a snippet:
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Aw hell Abagond! I don’t know WHY it’s so hard for me to do this! Lemme try again with the embed code cuz it’s important to the comment:
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Okay now, it’s not just me. The code’s not in the second comment either! Here’s the damned link!: http://investigation.discovery.com/tv-shows/injustice-files/videos/cop-shoots-man-in-driveway.htm
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Or my all time favorite…”he was a thug.”
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yanoo, Sharina?
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Sharina,
Even if he was into gangs or a thug, 11 shots is overkill. They could have used a disarming technique to better assess the situation.
You know what’s disturbing? Some people think that criminality and poverty are things black people adore like we love to rob and murder as evidenced in the media. Only a complete idiot would believe that.
The fact is that structural racism on several levels create the circumstances poor blacks find themselves in. This is not to say that Kimani Gray was thug, but thugs (in THIS context) are products of an unequal, oppressive society they were born in.
There are robbers and muggers in the street because most of them could not find employment or adequate employment to pay for food, cloths and shelter. There are murders in the street because there is no adequate mental health care and a surplus of guns that poor into these communities from the outside. Most black people abhor that along with the police that adds to the problem with everything from not following up crimes in these poor neighborhoods to killing unarmed black youth. Kimani Grey was a victim of the last problem alone with dozens of other young black males and females.
To say this is black culture is insulting and stupid because that is the same as believing that black people are born with a lack of moral fiber. And we all know, as many trolls will let us know in as many words as possible, that discussing racism in any form is being anti-white.
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@ Abagond
I saw several of the protests through live stream. All of the protests started out peaceful. It was mainly those first three nights that things were crazy. That first night was just a vigil and cops showed up and started shoving people. The crowd got angry (esp the young people) and they started throwing things and yelling at the cops. I know it was a breakaway group that did the looting of those two stores (one was def riteaid and the other was an asian owned food stand I think). Second night was similar to the first.
The third night was chaos. The amount of cops grew and I think the crowd was at its largest then. They started shoveling people from the sidewalk to the street and back again. People were charged with jaywalking and randomly selected and then dragged into police vans. There were about 45 arrests (from the number I got during the livestream) that night including the councilman and Kimani’s sister. Black women were the largest amount of arrests and were dragged into the vans mostly by their hair. Some of the cops (mainly the white ones) were smiling and laughing at protestors which only angered the crowd further and prompted more throwing and yelling. People with cameras were harrassed and threatened by cops. I think one person got their camera broken.
And then at it’s highest point with more squads on mopeds and horseback, in vans and helicopters coming in a white officer lost his cool and charged the crowd. They leaped on him, and cops leaped on protesters. They dragged him out the crowd into a van nearly crashing into a pole in their haste to get away. Then the netting came out so they could kennel people, but by then the councilman was released and he was able to calm some people down. Around midnight or so people started leaving and police presence dimminished a bit too. After that it’s been marches to the precinct with a list of demands, but peaceful overall.
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@ Sondis
what is yanoo?
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@ brothawolf
I agree.
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Sharina
yanno=you know? ^_^
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@ Brothawolf
My take is that there are definitely outside factors at work, but I’m also not completely at ease with the explanation above. If some dude breaks into my house, or that of my loved ones, I’m pretty much going to hold him accountable for doing so. I don’t know anybody in the hood or out of it who wouldn’t. If I find some low life trying to sell drugs to my nephews, I’m not going to say that it’s because they guy couldn’t pay for shelter and he had no other choice. I will PERSONALLY put an end to that problem.
I think there are excuses that I can give for orphan on the streets of Bahia that I cannot extend to Black American gangsters. None of these guys are going to starve to death. None of them are going to die of exposure. There are State and Federal programs that will keep them from being naked or out in the cold. They can even get free medical attention. The reason why most of these guys are violent and criminal is because they being targeted by a multi-billion dollar drug business, and being offered not just subsistence but the promise of wealth. They are being sold the idea that they can drive a Mercedes, wear expensive jewelry, and be a big shot, even though they have done none of the hard work required. They are basically trading high risk for high rewards.
The other side of the drug trade coin are people who have become addicted to the drugs and have no way to pay for them. They are desperate to feed their addiction and end up breaking in to steal property, and even resort to violence in order to pay for more drugs. These people are trading other people’s money and property and other people’s safety to feed their own habits.
The vast majority of violence and crime in the Black community is linked, in one way or another, to narcotics trafficking. However, when you look at the who is really spearheading this plague, you will find very few Black faces at the top. Most are Latinos of European origin (essentially South American White people).
http://listverse.com/2009/10/02/top-10-most-powerful-drug-lords/
These organizations target minority communities because they see that they can exploit the poverty there to their advantage. Young Black men are recruited mostly as expendable soldiers with a short life expectancy. They are perfect so long as they are poor, undereducated, and willing to take big risks. However, the techniques used to advance the trade in the White suburbs is often more adapted to that environment. (Less violence and lower risk)
I see the fault both with the organizations and with the individuals who join them on any level.
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@ Sharina
That was “American Violet”. An excellent film in so many ways. I did a post on it:
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@ Cece D
Thank you for that account! The press accounts I read sanitized police actions, as always. Even in the Village Voice, which is more independent of the police than the white New York dailies, the polilce do not pull women by the hair or laugh at protesters. They just doing their job trying to prevent a riot!
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@ King
I agree. In my experience it is mostly driven by the drug trade. Certainly not by rap lyrics.
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(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b3wxEZcfST8)
Well, I agree, King, and the exact same thing is playing out in Brazil, it happened in Rio de Janeiro recently, almost similar circumstances, the police claim he had a gun and drugs were involved
the community protested….and come to think of it, i think something exactly like this happened a few days ago and i came on this link instead of the one I saw on the news, meaning, its cronic here in Brazil.
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And, in Bahia, its more because of this dynamic than just hunger, that fans the violence , it is directly related to drug traficing like you said, King, and how they recruit the kids, and the flooding of the market by the drugs, and the violence especialy escalates around the coke/crack…and it is about money
This is what I have been implying on other threads about a dynamic that is eating away at the fabric of society in Brazil, the way the police make drugs in the USA, a way of cracking down on the black communities and getting payoffs at the same time
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@ Sondis
Ok lol. Had to hit myself on the head for that one.
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@ B.R.
That is very interesting. glad you brought it up. I was not aware.
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@ inthisjournal
Maybe if you were talking about an actual culture it might not be racist. But you are merely repeating the same old stereotypes and blaming them on “culture” and “values” instead of “genes” or “melanin” or whatever.
More:
Still more:
Why then is police brutality is not “a given” in white neighbourhoods?
Something that runs throughout your comments is that the worth of black life is conditional. Blacks can expect to be treated like human beings ONLY IF they are “high functioning”.
What kind of sick, twisted logic is that? Where have I heard that kind of thinking before? Oh, I know:
– You are like the abusive fuck who thinks it is all right to beat his wife if dinner is not ready on time. And then blames HER for HIS violence.
– You are like the white slave owner who sees no innate human worth in black people.
You are not the one to be lecturing blacks about “values”. Your values are sick and racist.
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heh heh, its alright, Sharina ^_^
whoa! Abagond, you gave inthisjournal a proper dose of reality, in fact i think you gave him a over dose. lol
Very well said, my friend. ^_^
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Those who talk about young black men like they were animals need to read the crime reports from NYC 5 corners at the turn of last century. Poverty is the underlying cause of this violence. There are many safe, black middle class communities that anti-racists (whatever the color of their skin) ignore. West Indian immigrants are some of the highest educated and skilled people to migrate to this country, but since we have black skin we are all thugs.
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Indeed, “The Gangs of New York” Great point.eshowoman.
It would be interesting some time to see a Post comparing the White gangs of Chicago and New York—both at the turn of the century and during Prohibition. Exactly how do Whites act when they are struggling with wide- spread poverty or social pressure? Are they less violent than Blacks?
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@ eshowoman
“There are many safe, black middle class communities that anti-racists (whatever the color of their skin) ignore.”— This is true. I think people choose to think all black communities are just ghettos. I have driven past several and through several. I now live in one. It is not a myth but a fact.
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@ King
“Exactly how do Whites act when they are struggling with wide- spread poverty or social pressure? Are they less violent than Blacks?”—I can’t speak in regards to violent but some of the same criminal acts blacks commit I have seen whites commit. When times were extremely bad and people were uncertain of financial futures (not that much has changed) whites and black alike were robbing banks around here. Whites more than blacks. Young white teens were selling drugs and getting high along with the blacks. I have seen white and blacks working together to commit crimes as well. Mainly robberies.
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Ebony and Ivory, steal together in racial harmony??
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Yes. The black guy was the look out. I think personally it may have been a third guy as well.
Anyway there was string of robberies in my grandmother’s neighborhood. I saw the black guy first scoping houses and walking back and forth. He would walk off when I drove by, but would come back once he was sure the car had passed. When I was leaving my grandmother’s house was when I saw him in the middle of the road with the white guy and they both would walk off again as if they were taking a walk. And once again when my car got out of site they would come back to that same spot. The house they were scoping was one that belonged to a meth head. The next day the owner of the meth house starts asking if they saw anyone near his house (but would never specify what was taken). A few days after that a black guy that lives near him asks the same thing though he said his four-wheeler had been stolen.
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I also have to note though that the neighborhood where my grandmother lives…A lot of blacks and whites grew up hand and hand and families are pretty close in that area too. It is not uncommon in the slightest to see that. Late night basket ball games is not just a bunch of black kids but white and black kids. But the problem with small towns is everyone knows everyone and when kids do bad they are sent home to mommy and daddy and not arrested. My cousin has been caught on several DUI charges and they just sent him home.
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King,
Exactly. It is all linked. It is not because of some malfunction in our systems as some people believe only we have. And besides, those that love to blame black culture are often the ones who say nothing about white culture. Some of them don’t even know what white culture is …ahem Glenn Beck. lol
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[…] Kimani Gray […]
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@Eschowoman
Well said. Not all of us live in the ghetto. I used to live in a ghetto when I was living in New York but I moved out when I moved to Florida. Now I live in the suburbs in a small Florida town. Yet us Blacks are seen as a threat to racist Whites and brainwashed Whitewashed Latinos. I wish people could look at character not skin color or ethnicity.
I don’t see why people want to stereotype all Blacks as living in the ghetto, thugs, gangsters, drug addicts etc? What is the motivation for stereotyping a race of people like this? Why are we the most hated race in the world? Why do many people look down on Blacks yet want to intimate us?
As a young, Black woman, I do wonder. Blacks aren’t worse than any other race walking on this planet either. There are good and bad people in all races!
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eshowoman,
Those who talk about young black men like they were animals need to read the crime reports from NYC 5 corners at the turn of last century. Poverty is the underlying cause of this violence.
King,
Indeed, “The Gangs of New York” Great point.eshowoman.
It would be interesting some time to see a Post comparing the White gangs of Chicago and New York—both at the turn of the century and during Prohibition. Exactly how do Whites act when they are struggling with wide- spread poverty or social pressure? Are they less violent than Blacks?
To a whitewashed person, anything that happened prior to (at least) the 70’s is irrelevant when it comes to historical white violence. In fact any white person committing an act of violence is irrelevant. It’s all about bad black behaviors.
No one is condemning white culture for their violence, even after they shoot up a school. For example, I heard about T.J. Lane, the white male who shot three students to death in Ohio. He was in court recently and made a complete a** of himself. He wore a T-shirt that had “KILLER” written on it with a marker, and he flipped off and cursed out the families of the victims who were in court. The fool got life in prison and he’s only 18. (He was seventeen when he committed the shooting. So, he couldn’t be sentenced to die.)
Here’s the irony behind this and all other similar and violent incidents: white males are perceived as less frightening to the police. On the other hand, black males scare some of them, and some just want them dead. Lane will never be looked at as a ‘thug’ for the rest of his life in prison. Hell, some people will be sympathetic towards him. They will say how he had a bad childhood, how he was mentally ill, etc. They will excuse Lane’s behavior.
Yet, Kimani Gray will be suspected for being a thug just like all of the other black males killed by police (or another black male), and his death will be seen as something that was coming to him for apparently living the thug life many people seem to think all black men live.
At the same time they will excuse the cops’ behavior. They will say they were stressed, they were scared, they thought Gray looked suspicious, etc.
*Sighs* Anyone who verbally devalues black life is saying nothing less than what this society has been saying for centuries, and it looks like they won’t let go of it until (a.) they use us, (b.) they exterminate us, or (c.) they use us and then exterminate us afterwards.
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it is going to be about the people who said the kid didnt have a gun and whether the patrolman got someoneto or/tossed the .38 and if it has prints that is really nasty business
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like we need to have this conversation. not.
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You have made some good points there. I checked on the web to learn more about the issue
and found most individuals will go along with your views on this website.
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Another unarmed black man who was seeking help after a car wreck gunned down by a policeman in North Carolina.
Let’s see if he gets off scot free like the other cops.
http://us.cnn.com/2013/09/15/justice/north-carolina-police-shooting/index.html
That is disgusting, as if the police officer made an honest mistake. If it had been a young white woman running towards them asking for help, would she have been gunned down, and if so, would the police simply call it “unfortunate”.
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The two NYPD officers who shot Kimani Gray in the back will not face criminal charges:
http://newsone.com/3041736/nypd-officers-who-shot-and-killed-kimani-gray-will-not-face-criminal-charges/
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[…] 3. Kimani Gray, 16 […]
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[…] (New York, NY) 2013: Deion Fludd (New York, NY) 2013: Jonathan Ferrell (Bradfield Farms, NC) 2013: Kimani Gray (New York, NY) 2013: Kyam Livingstone (New York, NY) 2013: Larry Eugene Jackson, Jr. (Austin, TX) […]
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[…] (New York, NY) 2013: Deion Fludd (New York, NY) 2013: Jonathan Ferrell (Bradfield Farms, NC) 2013: Kimani Gray (New York, NY) 2013: Kyam Livingstone (New York, NY) 2013: Larry Eugene Jackson, Jr. (Austin, TX) […]
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[…] (New York, NY) 2013: Deion Fludd (New York, NY) 2013: Jonathan Ferrell (Bradfield Farms, NC) 2013: Kimani Gray (New York, NY) 2013: Kyam Livingstone (New York, NY) 2013: Larry Eugene Jackson, Jr. (Austin, TX) […]
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[…] 2013: Kimani Gray (New York, NY) […]
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[…] (New York, NY) 2013: Deion Fludd (New York, NY) 2013: Jonathan Ferrell (Bradfield Farms, NC) 2013: Kimani Gray (New York, NY) 2013: Kyam Livingstone (New York, NY) 2013: Larry Eugene Jackson, Jr. (Austin, TX) […]
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