Appeal to Melanin: If a brown person says it it must be true – but only if it supports my argument. Example: “My Mexican wife hates illegal aliens.”
Note: In this post “brown” means anyone not white.
Nezua the Unapologetic Mexican says it:
tweaks the Appeal to Authority until it glows bronze. This is an attack wherein a non-brown person attempts to negate the argument / complaint / insight of a brown person by claiming the non-brown opinion is
a) Backed up by a black or brown or chinese or filipino or puerto rican etc friend who feels the same way, or that
b) Their word is free of any racist taint simply because they have, for example, paid for the lunch of a mexican ten times, or maybe put a black person through school, or are even sleeping with or married to a brown person. But as any person familiar with these dynamics knows, a White Supremacist viewpoint can exist in any of us. Even those of us with friends as dark as night. Melanin may make skin prettier and stronger, but it is not a guard against the programming that American culture carries.
Examples: When white people quote:
- Martin Luther King on judging people by the content of their character not the colour of their skin, excusing their own colour-blind racism, never quoting him on anything else.
- Jesse Jackson on being afraid of black men on a dark street, excusing their own fears, never quoting him on anything else.
- Chris Rock on the two kinds of black people.
- Morgan Freeman on stopping racism by not talking about it.
Rented Negroes make a living on the Appeal to Melanin: Their body provides the melanin, their mouth provides the necessary words:
- Thomas Sowell
- Clarence Thomas
- Michelle Malkin
- Juan Williams
- John McWhorter
- Marco Rubio
- Dinesh D’Souza
- Booker T. Washington
- Barack Obama
Brown best friends and lovers are pressed into service. “Tell them, damali, how I’m not racist.” As if there is no such thing as microaggression, internalized racism or just having friends with known faults.
BET and hip hop videos are used too. As if they were fact-checked PBS documentaries on Black America. As if black artists have no thought of appealing to white audiences to get rich.
Note that brown people:
- lighten their skin,
- use slurs directed at their own race,
- hate their eyes, lips, hair, nose,
- produce films, videos and books with cringeworthy stereotypes,
- kiss up to white people,
- have taken part in
- blackface,
- minstrel shows,
- etc.
Because melanin protects against the sun, not against internalized racism.
Notice that none of this works the other way round: quoting a white friend, white actor, white comedian or white leader is just quoting a personal opinion. It proves little about whites in general. Because whites are individuals. But the truth is, so are brown people.
Caution: Those who Appeal to Melanin do not care about the truth.
See also:
- The Glosario
- Rented Negro
- Some of my best friends are black
- Quoting MLK
- internalized racism
- microaggression
- damali ayo
- native informant – blacks cannot be regarded as belonging to a hive mind
- BET Fallacy – blacks take part in what can turn out to be white racist misrepresentations
Abagond, I co-sign this 100%! And I just have to tell you — I am so-o-o happy to have found your site some time ago! Your observations are always so clear and succinct, peeling back the layers of all the still-rampant BS going on. Keep ’em coming is all I have to say!
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I deeply resent the inclusion of President Obama on a list of, “rented negroes”. History will show that he was one of the greatest presidents ever. He understands that one should not allow lack of perfection to trump achieveable progress.
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Well said post. I really liked this post
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Funny, I just commented on another thread (If black women were white women) and it fits this post…
Just one thing… I hope people do realize that everyone on this planet has melanin (and many animals) except those who have diseases like albinism. It is quite ironic to read stuff about how melanin makes one “more civilized” (in a book that suggests that the power of melanin is going to suppress all non-melanin people -whatever that means- off the surface of the earth-) or other great things and at the same time think of what albino people might think of such statements. All this brings this reflection to my mind: Americans really need to travel a little.
Here is my post in the other thread:
And an example of manipulation. 1) I make a statement:
“@Taffy Apple I totally Agree with you….They all Envy us especially white women.”
2) Then I speak in the place of the persons I am targeting in my statement, to suggest that they will say something, but who cares.
“They can deny it all they want to but i see it everyday.”
Oh, well.
3) And then I add some supremacist, generalizing talk. And the racist loop is closed. (That’s how racists have always done it, they make statements, they say you’ll deny them and they generalize, usually thinking -because they convince themselves- that everyone thinks the same).
“They would lie, cheat, and steal to have our melenin rich skin and soft curvy bodies and our natural sexy, swagger and confidence.”
One thing is for sure. We are all human. And not perfect. But we might think we are. Nubian proved it.
The post clearly states it: it imagines what it would be for black women “in a black supremacist world”.
I wonder how many of the posters actually KNOW what “supremacist” means… It seems like History (facts, not “his” story) hasn’t taught much, to the point that the very victims of a system would enjoy it if reversed. So what exactly are they reproaching those who apply it (white supremacists) with ?
The example of Israel and the current oppression of Palestinians, Ethiopian Jews and anyone who doesn’t think *right* is also is a very good illustration of how humans can act when freed from oppression.
Maybe that’s what happened to Europeans ? (James Baldwin wonders about that in “A Rap of Race”)
Abagond, you are a very very bright and skillful poster.
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@ Delwin
I understand that many will not agree with that (or even the Booker T. Washington one).
I do not want this post derailed by that, so I will do a post on it. Hopefully it will be up by tomorrow morning: “Is Obama a Rented Negro?”
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@Abagond
I know that you are debating this with Delwin but I want to bring this up. I don’t think President Obama is a ”rented Negro”.
Honestly, I don’t see why you see our president as a ”rented Negro”?
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@ Adeen
I understand. We will talk about it tomorrow in its own thread.
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@ abagond, have you seen this video?
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GreatPost!! Abagond.
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@ crissjenson:
I find this documentary, very informative. Thank you for posting this, my friend.
*reclines back and watches the program. ^_^
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Abagond, you brought this up with me, on another thread, and even mentioned the “mexican” above..so I cant help but asume part of it is related to our discusion
I just have to say, i dont come in this blog mentioning my wife as though that is some kind of acceptance or hoping to be liked
Im just not that dumb, I started interracial dating back in the mid 60’s, and that was really against the grain, and me and the wonderful women that chose to be with me, and I tip my hat off to them, received intimidation and static from all racial sides…in some cases real physical intimidation , which Im more than happy to recipricate with anyone who thinks they can threaton me or woman who chooses to be with me…so I know only too well what some people really feel about that and that to say im married to a black woman doesnt really mean squat in here about arguments…so lets get that really straight between you and me and anyone else that it concerns
I dont hide behind my wife being black
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I think about the only time an “appeal to melanin” can work if its against an argument based around people from another culture/race/group being the basis of why they shouldn’t do something.
IE
You shouldn’t do this because so-and-so don’t like it and then point out that these other so-and-so’s don’t have a problem with it.
Presuming the debate or argument hasn’t gotten any more complex than that anyways.
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Bulanik:
I am currently watching it as I type this. Yes, it is about, eugenics.
I will give you my feedback, when I’m through, watching it.
I’m enjoying it very much so far. ^_^
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I like this post. This explains how a non black person or person of color can be friends with a black person can still be racist. A non black person can be married to a person of color and still be racist. A black person can be racist against other black people and people of color. Great post Abagond.
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Appeal to melanin is a special case of the Argument from authority. In this case, whites consider a black person is considered an authority due to melanin. This is related to the Ad hominem used by blacks who claim whites aren’t qualified to have an opinion on racial issues.
Just like “rented negros” there are rented white folks who are paid very well. I’ve read Tim Wise gets about $5K per performance and lives in one of the whitest neighborhoods in Nashville. People are willing to pay top dollar to have others tell them what they want to hear.
I would, however, caution against dismissing everything a rented negro or rented white person says as false. Just as I would caution against dismissing others as “rented” just because they say something you don’t like. The focus should be on the merits of the argument.
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“Because melanin protects against the sun, not against internalized racism”
This is one of the truest statements ever.There are plenty of blacks who dislike their skin tone and thus try to lighten their skin or produce lighter kids.It is sad that those ppl are upheld as giving a true insight into black culture yet the ones who praise other blacks are seen as giving biased opinions.Notice how obama was elected whites were saying blacks voted for him because he is black.Yet hardly any blacks supported hermain cain and he is black.when blacks say negative things about other blacks they are revered as giving a true insight into the black community.
This doesn’t work the other way around is true as well.When they did a study about how white males are more likely to commit mass murders those whites were saying its not all of us and that is just the mentally insane ones.
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May i say abagond that woman is Beautiful,her skin tone glows and looks so smooth.i;m jealous lol
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100% Agreed.
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Bulanik:
The documentary, Crissjensen posted was very revealing.
It deals with many things, regarding eugenics and how, “planned parenthood” spawned from the eugenics, movement.
The conspiracy to use, abortion and birth control to commit, genocide against black people.
The program, breaks it all down so you can see how the American government, was behind the agenda to eliminate, African Americans.
I will never look at planned parenthood the same, ever again.
I recommend that everyone, watch it when they have 2 hours to spare.
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mstoogood4yall:
I was thinking the same thing, whew! look at that beautiful black woman in all her dark, smooth, skin.
mstoogood4yall, do you have a towel? I need one, so i can wipe the drool from my mouth. @: o x ) >
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I hate it when people do that. Even my own White mother will do it. If I get angry with something racist she said, she will then claim my East Asian father `wouldn’t mind’ or would `get the joke’. Even having your own children become the victims of violent racism is not enough to purge a White person of their racist mindset.
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The woman is Nigerian model and singer Demi Grace:
http://zenmagazineafrica.com/culture/demi-grace/
http://www.modelmayhem.com/portfolio/pic/31454108
http://www.modelmayhem.com/portfolio/pic/23124607
If you click on the picture in the post it goes to her Model Mayhem website.
The picture seems to be photoshopped but is amazing nonetheless.
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@ Sondis
Thank you for the summary.
@ Crissjensen
I have not seen the video but I have heard of the sort of thing Sondis is talking about.
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@sondis
U can have the towel once im done wiping my eyes from crying at how beautiful this woman is and how society will tell women who have her same skin tone they are not good enough.Abagond finds the most beautiful black women to post pics of he should be a model agency recruiter lol.
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@ B.R.
I was not thinking so much of your wife but the musicians and professors you brought up.
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@ abagond:
No problem, thank you for the post. I have subscribed to Demi Grace’s YouTube channel. I am now an official, fan of hers.
@ mstoogood4yall:
I’ll let you slide, just this once, *_- Yeah, i like abagond’s taste in women, too.
Although, most modeling agencies, won’t like the women, he would choose for magazine spreads. -_-
The modeling and fashion industry is just as racist as the movie industry.
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@ Churchs
I agree that arguments should stand or fall on their own, not on the colour of the skin of the person who makes them (that would be a racist ad hominem and therefore a logical fallacy).
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just seeing that model Demi Grace well and truly made my day! lol
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I am definitely suspicious of planned parenthood and any other government agency.I never will trust anything that is mostly put into black neighborhoods.Its like whites do studies to point out problems in the black community then come up with something to sell to them like planned parenthood.
problem:70% of black kids born out of wedlock. solution:planned parent hood/abortion. Problem: unmarried black women. Solution: interracial relationships.
In my opinion if they were so concerned they would try to educate the youth about contraception and abstinence, prevention is key.Then i notice they want to say black women are unmarried and then they push the interracial agenda.i think that black women should expand our horizions but that shouldn’t just be our only option,dating ppl outside of america is an option too but they never put that as a suggestion.I guess in their superior mind we can’t get men outside of america.
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Has anyone else seen the documentary called ”what black men think”.I love this documentary and think everyblack person should see it.I wish they would make a sequal and put abagond in it. lol
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That is a beautiful dark skinned woman. Beautiful smooth skin .
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@Iris & @Bulanik
Exactly one of the major problems I had with my mother. She thought she had a free pass because of the man she married (and later divorced), but she clung to the notion of white privilege as if her life depended on it.
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@ Iris & Bulanik
Excellent comments! It can make them BLINDER to their own racism.
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Kiwi said
“I think this may be due to Asians lacking a single, strong, cohesive identity (Chinese, Japanese, Indian, Filipino etc.) that blacks (uprooted slave heritage) and Hispanics (Spanish language/culture) have.”
Somehow, I’d like to say, “good for them”. They resist racialization, being put in the single box (this one being the “yellow” label”, which they would reject, I think, first because they actually have VERY different cultures of origin). Isn’t that also something they “have” and not “lack”? The identity you’re referring to is “race”. Why (again) why should be people “have to have” it ? People fall out of the frame… get them back in. So that’s the only reference for “identity” ? We can never get away from it and reject it ? Racists rule ? Theirs is the only reference ? If you don’t “have” it, you “lack” something ?
Am I the only one to think that this hundreds-of-years-old reference must now die because it has damaged too much and too many ? Am I the only one to think we are big and intelligent enough to find other “identity” references ?
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Sometimes, not just blinder, but they might think it gives a free pass to say and do things that they know that some people might find racist, but they can pull out their spouse card and get off the hook.
I think Bulanik’s last sentence hits it. They can afford to be even more blatantly racist than colour-blind politically correct white people and think they can get away with it. My mom was not really THAT bad- she knew that it was not really right to do that (although you was blind to a lot of it) – I have seen some whites married to non-whites who just made my skin crawl.
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I agree with this post. Melanin does indeed make skin prettier and stronger. Thank God that the majority of humanity has some degree of melanin in their skin whether it be slightly tanned or very dark.
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“Thank God” ? 0—0
It’s nature, Anne, melanin is “organized” in nature as it should. Some have more for protection, others have less, for protection too, because they need to be able to produce more vitamin D, among other things, as their ancestors lived in places with scarcer sun than in others. But STILL sun (contrary to what some “melanin theory” people claim -like “they lived in caves”-). Because light is the source of life.
Now, quick migrations (voluntary or not) have changed the way we must adapt…
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I rarely post on here but this caught my interest.
It is true about people being ignorant to their own racism if they are in an arena where it is overlooked by both black and white because one is heavily involved with the other.
There were 2 guys both white and both who primarily courted black women (though occassionally dated white women). These guys proved irresistible to a lot of black women I noticed and I can only think that it is because IR dating wasnt so common then when I was growing up and that these guys were ‘open’ to IR dating. I didnt like them as people and thought that they were a couple of c0cks myself but they were mates with my close friends so I tolerated them.
One felt that he knew everything and more about BW and black culture in general. He went for the women with the most ‘European’ phenotype and would be openly mocking or derisive of other BW that did not fit the mould i.e. ‘ordinary’ black girls – as if he had the right to because he had the interest of many Black women, particularly those deemed more attractive by mainstream society. Because he was popular with certain black women, he would use them to ‘verify’ his negative opinion of these ‘ordinary’ bw too.
The other was much more driven to find BW (but would settle for WW at times) but felt it was ok to make racist statements about Black people. He was careful though who he made those comments too (I notice it was mainly to black women and sort of guilible black guys) even though he was always trying to get his hands in their knickers (the women that is).
I must confess that I have always found this hard to appreciate. My partner immediately identified them for what they were when we were first courting in our early days but I couldnt see it like that. I kept thinking that they couldnt be racist because they not only dated but ‘preferrred’ to date black women. Over the years, I have been able to put it in to some context. For one, it is the aesthetics – ‘certain’ black women are prettier to him and he wanted to make sure his children came out in a way where he could see some of that ‘beauty’ in his own image. The other, well, he is envious of black men generally but it just isnt obvious initially because this guy really seems to appreciate black music, culture, food and women of course. *SMH*
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Yes, Cornelia, I believe that God made us all and intended for us to look the way we do. I also believe that everyone is 100% beautiful and perfect in his eyes. And for that reason, racism, in my opinion is a joke. It is a judgement made by human beings who have limited understanding of true beauty.
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@ Delwin
Still working on that post. It will be up later today, God and my computer willing!
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@Anne
Although I do agree that melanin makes us stronger and prettier, I do believe there is many good looking Caucasians though.
There is pretty and ugly people in all races.
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I don’t like the “model minority” phrase used to describe Asian-Americans.
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Isn’t this the same as an appeal to authority? And that’s why it doesn’t work with whites since people of color are the supposed authorities on what’s racist? So to contradict what one person of color says is racism you need another poc with an opposing view.
But maybe the converse works with whites…since whites are more likely to believe something is racist if a white person, Tim Wise, for example, says it. So is Tim Wise a “Rented Blanco”.
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@Anne, ah, okay I understand it better now. I thought you had said something else. My bad.
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Kiwi,
What you just wrote is exactly what I think.
The double standard is still needed until “whites” depart from whiteness. I couldn’t agree more. As a matter of fact, there is a difference in the approach to whiteness in the US and in France – I don’t know about other European countries-: in France affirming your “whiteness” is a clear sign of adhering to white supremacist ideology, ie white power. In the US it is not (at least not obviously) as it is *just* being part of one of the institutionalized racial groups.
Staying in the US twice with an interval of 20 years has allowed me to understand the “point” of blackness as I have witnessed the slow and subtle re-racialization of my own country through politics of racial naming by Le Pen, Pasqua and Sarkozy and other less important politicians in France.
This was illustrated by a young dark-skinned man either from the French west-Indies or with African parents after a demonstration against Le Pen’s second position during the Presidential elections. The young man said this (on TV): “Le Pen has reminded me that I am black”.
I thought this sentence contained it all: the naming is done by the racists, but the victim of racism also adopts it as a reflection of the racist naming. And as long as the naming goes on, the naming has to be turned around (idea of race pride) to oppose it to the oppressor.
But of course at the same time it is a trap. Because racism is pure perversion. That’s how it works. Pure manipulation.
When I refer to the fact that we should reject “race”, I am talking about the biological side of it. I know that we are far from being through with the social/political/ideological side of it. But I know one thing for sure, because I experience it regularly: racists/white supremacists HATE it when you pull the rug (which they think of as a pedestal) from under their feet. They hate it when you remind them of the absence of such a fact as the biological reality of “race”. You’re reminding them that their identity is fake and false.
That is why I always try to remind people that there is NO obligation (except if we accept to obey racists) to use “race” as if it was a fact. That’s a political/ideological stance I’m taking. Because we have to gain ground of this. It’s a battle we have to win. We can’t let them continue to spread that disease of the mind.
Peace
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@ Kiwi; That was briliiantly stated. I like that explaination of race.
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I agree that Joh Mcwhorter and Juan Williams are rented Negros personified.
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@ Cornlia,
brilliantly stated. if ‘white’ people really want to end racism they’ll have to end the concept of race as they understand it. if non-‘white’ people want to end racism using the race concept against them is a good way to do it. you can’t end oppression by accepting the ideology of the oppressors, which leaves us with the options of either turning it against them or outright rejecting it and forming our own identities. hence why i put ‘white’ & ‘black’ in quote marks, like a shorthand way of saying so-called or according to the current socioideological conception of race.
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[…] Appeal to Melanin […]
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@ Kiwi
It’s interesting you should mention how easily some East Asian people will play into the model minority stereotype (or any other, for that matter) in order to stay on the good side of White people.
I think it is often due to much of the racism and discrimination against them generally being subtle or even disguised as a compliment. It may not be easy for an East Asian person to put their finger on it, or to pick out why a particular comment made them feel uncomfortable, so it’s easy to side with what White people say and decide they are just being `too sensitive’. To try to brush away those bad feelings and pretend they were never there.
Mix that uncertainty in with this `lack of a cohesive identity’ (though, in my case it was having no other East Asian people around) you mentioned and growing up among mostly White people and it is easy to end up with internalised racism and a desire to pander to Whites and distance oneself from other PoC. A longing to be `normal’ (read as White). This can be in an effort to shield oneself from racism/exclusion (not that it does much because people will always see your race and often judge you for it).
However, I do think any PoC can be prone to this.
@ Bulanik
At least my mother was not as bad as these men you had the misfortune of working with. They sound awful. It’s sickening that some people wear their PoC spouse like a badge declaring them free from any racist thought.
@ Jefe
I’m sorry you also had to experience that. It hurts worse when it comes from your own family. It was confusing to come home crying over racist bullies, be told they are horrible and stupid, but then hear the same sort of ignorance from a parent. It was like being comforted and then slapped in the face.
My mother just absorbs everything from her own racist mother and society like a sponge, never questioning or thinking about anything. So it is now easier for me to brush it aside as her just not using her brain enough.
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Abagond “@ B.R.
I was not thinking so much of your wife but the musicians and professors you brought up”
BR
Abagond, first, on premise, I agree with this thread,and just because a white person is with a minority doent mean they cant be racist..and, people should take it on a case by case situation , things a person sais will come out eventualy…
Second, you mentioned on the other thread, which is where our discusion lead to this thread, or seemed to, that my grandchildren will apreciete it. For sure Abagond, many things you address on your blog would be great information to my son and grandchildren, but, just not everything, including your take on America in international politics, and,some kind of acknowledgement about the body of knowledge coming out of south of the Sahara.. at least you are buying into an agenda by someone who doesnt really have a handle on it either…he mentions Mali 3 or 4 times and how it is an example of culture from the North, when I produced youtubes in the past of culture in Mali directly related to the body of knowledge below the Sahara…which rakes over his statments and many articles recently about Mali have talked about the tolerant Islam that allowed for other culture and the intolerant Islam that banned music and dance, and about the traditional cultures that are there in Mali, something the African Holocaust skips over , the understanding that there are direct culturel referances to the body of knowlege below the Sahara …
Just reffering to that to let you know that, if I just gave my arguments about why ” sub Sahara Africa” isnt racist, if the intent is uplifting , you know a bunch of people would have roared in “Africans dont think that way…” cmon, Abagond, dont lie to yourself about that . That would have been screamed to the housetops…I just brought in examples that plenty of Africans dont think that way , and , they were varieties of subjects with papers not defending the use of the phrase, which then you might be able to say its a Clarcence Thomas argument, but it isnt, they used the phrase to make specific points about their work and to identify exactly what they are talking about ….and they werent all about music , which was also leveled at me , and is false…
If I make a referance to a Nigerian professor and a magnificant paper she wrote about many Igbo words , this is hardly using the “apeal to Melanin”… she isnt even arguing about the subject, she is using the word because it is how she wants to identify the origin of the culture she is reffering to ..
In that sence, I dont think that falls into this catagory you are talking about at all…I think you chose to follow the position of a black Islamic African and his point of view…this isnt the monolithic black position on this subject and there are a huge amount of black AFricans that dont agree with African Holocaust, even some commenters from AFrica have come in with very strong views against exactly what he is saying ….you cant use the melanin apeal when it is obvious that there are lots of sides to this story in Africa itself
this has nothing to do with blackface, apeal to melanin, defending the n word, or my freinds think this way…
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And , it brings me to another point about these “musicians” I refered to and political agendas…
You tried to answer my point about a political agenda in the 60’s that said Loius Armstong was an Uncle Tom and tap dancing was shucking and jiving for the white man..you said in his case it was something to do with “behavioral” actions, or something…
I suggest to you , Abagond, that the people who came up with that , were from the universities with no idea of their real history and culture. They have no idea of how Loius Armstrong grew up , what discrimination and obstacles he overcame and how he dealt with that racism. They didnt forge that on the street, it was some little cluster of agreement behind a political agenda that did great damage and took 35 years to correct and tap dancing has never recovered.
And that is why I talk about political agendas that are bad, there are many that are good, but the bad ones cause a lot of damage
If I know that Louis Armstrong means a lot more than an uncle tom, does that mean I still am suposed to not say anything in the presence of pov all agreeing on an agenda? Or that my opinion means nothing because Im not a pov? Does bringing up Wynton Marsalis and all he said to change the really bad concept of him as an uncle tom, mean I am apealing to melanin?
and that goes for the political agenda back then that implied if you arnt part of the solution you are part of the problem and how the logical conclucion of that became some sorry @ss white SDS activists caught with some thugs bankrobbers in Nyak New York ,killing an officer and the violent revolution died a miserable pathetic death at that moment in the USA, and fortified the political agenda of the far right and gave them power…I will never be those sorry @ss SDS activists, all too willing to not think for themselves and be manipulated into doing something really pathetic..
What I can say is, I do intake your words and thoughts with a lot of respect, and, will think over the points you and others make and weight it against the experiances I have in my own life and the many points of view of the pov in my real life and the points of view I find with my own research, and , I know where to look to get all sides of many of these political agendas out here….
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“I just brought in examples that plenty of Africans dont think that way ” I actualy meant I brought in many examples that Africans do think that way
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@ sondis Welcome my friend we need to know whats going around us as a people. there are many ppl who hate our guts. so watch out. blackness rules!!!
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@ Bulanik
anytime. jsut get the news out there to other black folks so they know whats going on in this anti-black world.
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@ Abagond, please check it you’ll love it. do a post on it too.
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I thank the Most High that he blessed me with beautiful melanin!
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@Crissjensen
You are right. Many people of all races hate us Blacks and I don’t know why. My mother just came back from the grocery store upset because of the racist way, some White clerks were treating her.
Yes, why is the world so anti Black?
Abagond, you should add Hermain Cain to the list of rented Negros. He sides with those racist, White Conservatives all the time and his ways have shown me that he doesn’t care about Blacks at all.
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I don’t know why you’re referring to Black people as Brown.
I’m of northern Pakistani origin and I identify as “Brown” and I know many East Indians and Middle eastern people that call themselves “Brown”, eventhough we might be yellow-skinned.
Other than that, I agree with everything, you wrote in your blog.
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A good post, this one. Not sure, as usual, what the exact desired effect is to be; however, your blog always makes me just back up a step, mentally, to check my motives, and you know, just think a little bit more. It’s all I can do at this time.
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@ Thomas Conlon
The desired effect is knowledge. Know when you are doing it, know when others are doing it. Know that it is a B.S. move.
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@ Kashmir
I used “brown” to fit in with Nezua’s use of it in his definition. By brown he means people of colour, anyone who is not white.
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well this post appeals to me personally because as you may recall i don’t date white+ or anything, it’s black only for me and yes, dating some particular ethnicity does not give you instant insight into their whole realm. I live in SW Philly now, and well let’s say there are not a lot of white folks up here at all, on the block the cops look at me oddly, maybe its curiosity. I have had zero problems here otherwise though.
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Skin colors range from light beige/pink to very dark brown. (I don’t know anyone who’s white or black or yellow or red, and I know north Europeans, Central-Saharian Africans, Asian and North and Central American Natives. And I don’t suffer from daltonism).
White and black or whiteness and blackness do not describe skins, but “races”, as they were coined, classified and hierarchized by scientists who were not being scientific, but political. These categories have served the same interests for hundreds of years, but we are still fooled into thinking that they describe skin colors. They describe the politicization of skin colors, yes. The reduction of diversity and multiplicity into frames of references that we are ordered to use by the dominant white supremacist propaganda. We don’t have to. We can resist.
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@ Cornlia
I’m fairly certain the rapper Riak is actually black.
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ah well someone kind of dipped off in the irr tangent and you know i just post on facebook i’m not ready to blog but that just opens a whole can of worms there is always the _agenda_ on some of these blogs you know i wasn’t saying anything, really. that girl is way hot, too.
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SomeGuy. We see what we see, right. Very dark brown is what I see. You see black.
And you *know* the point is not about arguing about one person’s skin color.
It’s about labeling people with “race”. Racists could have chosen “beige” and “brown”. They didn’t because the symbolic behind white and black was essential in racism. (as well as red and yellow, do you know anyone red or yellow ? yellow and red were major colors with essential meanings in Middle Age and Renaissance Europe, same as white and black)
The vast vast majority of people on this planet are dark-skinned. That is why racists invented races. So they could divide and conquer.
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@ Cornlia
It was just a joke. 🙂
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It looks like Kashmir may be offended that he is categorized in the same group as “black” African Americans.There are no such thing as “black” people, that was a term made up. Sorry to burst your bubble.
But there was a such thing as people with melanin and people without it. White people are not white, match a white person to a sheet of paper, no match. White is just a term. These terms are just opposing colors placed on a group of people to make one seem “better and fairer” than the other no matter how light or dark you may be.
Even the lightest brown is still considered brown and the darkest dark is considered brown. Humans are not black, period. Match the darkest person to the actual color black if you do not understand and you will see they are just a very dark dark brown. So the term black and white are a no go. On the other hand “African Americans” come in many shades and colors contrary to belief from the same “yellow” which is really a dark brown as you claim yourself to be to the “darkest brown.” If an African American refers to themselves as “brown” they are not saying that they are not black and trying to”up themselves on the “racial scale.” They are stating a fact. There are brown people (no matter what made up race) vs. people without color, who are pink because the blood shades through their skin. If that offends you, I am sorry you’ve been shaped to think that you are any different or better or if you aren’t, it certainly comes off that way. There is also ethnicity that come into place. Brown is not an ethnicity. How is it that I as an Asian stand next to a black or lighter the same color as I considered “lesser ethnic than” a “black”/who is really brown.
But of course SOME other colored people around the world meaning “those with any melanin” or aren’t white (which means recessive genetically) as a pure white, (no, don’t jump to conclusions, “pure” is an English word that is perceived to be good but it just means whole.People are blindsided by this fact) jump to the more powerful side and yell that the rooftops “that the USA blacks are different than all of us colored people.”
They aren’t brown which means “having melanin” , they are different!
Why do they feel so eager to point this out?
To whom are they trying to get closer to?
And to this post. Or sometimes they say “(any race here) is racist , (another race here) said their (any close person in relation) was beat up by a (race who they hate). I agree full heartily with the appeal to melanin. (Sorry if I went way off topic) I was just trying to stress brown is not an ethnicity or a race. It is a skin color. All these classifications of PoC are just said. And of course white people are eager to point out “there is nothing wrong with splitting PoC by classifications.” and just because you are brown/of color does not mean you ditched your ethnicity.
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If a “Arab” or “Indian” calls themselves brown, and is against an African American calling himself so , it seems he has an agenda. Why would he want to call an African American to term selves as brown (because that’s really their color)? Because it associated him with “dirty low blacks”. Of course they don’t like that. Of course he’d disagree. And Asians are not yellow. We come in all shades. It’s very rude to call an Asian “yellow” like we are lemons or something. Sorry people, I am so passionate on this issues b/w PoC interactions world wide.
*steps off soapbox and throws down mic*
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*the
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@MistyNyugen I’m not ashamed of being classified with blacks, it’s just that most Middle eastern people and South Asians , identify as “Brown” in Canada, where there are very few blacks.
Besides, I’ve suffered more racism from African-Americans than from White people, whenever I go down south.
I’ve been called a “camel jockey” and a “terrorist” by other black people.
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Your first paragraph was fine than you went on to but…”Iike however…” Honestly that sounded like you are disturbed by “black” americans calling themselves brown or you wouldn’t have disagreed. Yes Kashmir but whites have embraced you fully. I am sure, the same way they embraced me when they throw racial slurs at me for being an asian female in the workplace or how they bricked my grandfather’s business for being not white american ran.
“Blacks are the most racist…..” , that’s very normal for you to claim, lots of PoC who want to dissassociate themselves from blacks and validate their reasons for whatever use this term using this coined phrase. And no I am not denying black people use those terms or your experiences. But PoC who aren’t classified as “black american” (who are thought as monolythic) do use this to have an excuse to publically hate on blacks to make themselves seem different to white people. Different = Better. Let’s just be honest. So yes, I feel for your experience but if you think white people appreicate you more than blacks collectively…. Then… Wow… Because they don’t , they’ve been engrained from the start to “tolerate”(like PoC are diseases) and anyone who is “different, other ,lower” not as “good as them.” But you do see how people would think you are disturbed by being associated with being considered brown along with african americans or “afro- english” etc, right? And your perception of canada not having many “blacks” means they shouldn’t call themselves brown, hunh??? Or since some called you mean terms means they should not call themselves brown for that reason. “Blacks are PoC and are browns as well” , brown is not an exclusive term like you wish it to be. It’s just a color ranging from very very light to dark skin coloring and a plethora of features like Iman to Jay Z. I think that’s why you got so many responses. There was so much truth on that page but you seemed to get color struck on a term and made it clear you were not the same as them. “They are different”.
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Yes we are different, no wonder Asian/Middle eastern people don’t benefit from
affirmative action.
I know most white people are covertly racist deep down, but I haven’t experienced it to my face.
Besides, most of the TSA officers that harass Middle eastern travellers, happen to be Black.
maybe it’s the white people, that are trying to pit all colored people against eachother.
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@ MistyNyugen(Floral_Is_Forever)
Thank YOU…you’ve written a mouthful and I would have to agree with your commentary 🙂
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* Bows to MistyNyugen* You sure told him.
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*applause for Misty*
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Legion, great comment, toward Kashmir.
He is a typical sellout, i can see him, kissing up to white people for their approval and looking down on black people, even though he is a person of color.
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@Sondis I’m not kissing up to White people, all I’m saying is the terms ‘Brown’ and ‘Black’ are separate entities, although they are the same in a white persons perspective.
You see. I live in Canada and over here even Black people call East Indians/Middle eastern people ‘brown’, and they refer to themselves as ‘black’.
In Canada if you tell somebody you’re Brown, they think of ‘desis’, heck they’re have been times when a Black person tells a brown kid not to act ‘black’ cause they aren’t black.
Most people on this blog, tend to see things from an American perspective, probably because America isn’t as multicultural.
I don’t feel superior to Black people in anyway whatsoever, I despise White people just as much as anybody on this blog.
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Is this what you are saying?
http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/appeal-to-pity.html
I knew this one really questionable judge in nj briefly he called it ‘pandering’
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pandering or solicitude implies an agenda
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i want to sleep i have to say this are not you doing the same thing though against which you argue by saying the other non-black dude said something about what white people or something thereby causing a crazy feedback loop in my head i’m sorry i don’t mean to come out the side of my neck
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Kashmir,
Indians & Pakistanis are pretty much just referred to as Indians and Pakistanis here in the US. You might hear the occasional ‘East Indian’ or even ‘Desi’ here and there, but I don’t recall hearing anyone, not even a South Asian person, using ‘Brown’ as a racial identifier for South Asians or Middle Easterners — and I live in NYC neighborhood that is a least 40% Indian.
If brown is ever used by South Asians, it usually to describe their actual skin tone and even that seems to be a rare occurrence
Mostly it has been from mestizo Mexicans or mixed-race Caribbean people that I’ve heard /seen Brown used in the way you’ve used it — as a sort of an identifier regardless of individual skin tone.
As far as I’m concerned, it is not unreasonable for a person whose actual skin tone is a shade of brown (which includes the vast majority of ‘Black’ people) to refer to himself or herself as brown or Brown.
I’ve seen Indians go to great lengths to explain that even the darkest skinned, nearly blue-black Indian is still not ‘a black person’. Mixed in there is a crystal clear attempt to escape a perceived stigma, as well as a belief / hope that few others are aware that Indians (along side many other brown or darker skinned, non-Africans peoples) were most certainly at one time referred to by the British (and sometimes even by members their own group) as Blacks.
South Asians and Middle Eastern peoples don’t have dibs on the ‘Brown’ label, and likewise, there’s nothing written in the Heavens that ‘Black’ means ‘African descent only’ — even if some little kid or anyone else says it does.
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@MistyNyugen(Floral_Is_Forever)
I agree with most of what you’re saying as far as “race” and skin colors (because my vision of things is similar), except with the idea that there are people who have “no” melanin. That would be albino people, yes, but that’s because of a genetic problem. And they are still “pink”… As far as light skinned humans, they look more “beige” to me. If I were wearing a beige-colored shirt, from far, people might think I’m naked… Which is not the case with a pink (or white) shirt.
Dolls are never white or black, they also come in varying shades from light beige to very dark brown. Kids would not like it if they didn’t reflect reality.
As far as melanin: I have melanin too, simply less than other people who have more. The amount of melanin we have is the result of millenaries of adaptation to the amount of sun they received by our ancestors before recent migrations (voluntary or not).
And I think it’s problematic to read and hear more and more people stating that “more melanin is *better*”. It’s better in certain environments, it’s not in others (lack of vitamin D produced by the body, for instance). African-Americans who live up north in the US or Canada tends to have problems linked with lack of sun, which is not the case of those in the south of the Americas. And reversely for light-skinned people.
Applying a hierarchical scale on the amount of melanin sounds “familiar”… 18th century European racial politics and policies… It should ring a bell in everyone’s mind. Dangerous, very dangerous path to take… imho
Peace.
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And now we add LL Cool J to this list…smh
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Rented Negroes appear to be anyone Mr Abagond disagrees with.
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