Commenter JT asked:
Could you post on the differences between white bigots, white implicit racists, and whites with integrity? It would be interesting to read your take on the different types, the frequency with which each occur and maybe a prescription how each can be recognized and/or addressed.
Here is how I understand the three kinds:
- white bigots – those who hate blacks, use the n-word and have views that even most whites would regard as racist. What blacks would call being openly racist. On this blog I call them Jim Crow racists. Examples: The Klan, David Duke, white grandmothers and uncles.
- white implicit racists – they do not hate blacks and may even be careful to be politically correct in their speech. They say they do not see colour, that it is wrong. But they still look down on blacks and stereotype them. They see them as poor, “ghetto”, screwed up, as less moral and intelligent, etc. Because racism is bad and most whites are not bad people, most whites cannot be racist. So racism is dead. Therefore something must be wrong with black people. Bootstraps, pathologies, blah, blah. Blacks see these as subtle racists because it is not always apparent right away that they are racist. I call them colour-blind racists. Example: most white people in America.
- whites with integrity – a loaded term that assumes other whites do not act with integrity. That is mostly true, but not completely so. I take this term to mean whites who are not racist or who at least are trying to unlearn their racism and do the right thing. Examples: John Brown, white Freedom Riders, Tim Wise, white allies.
Most whites would consider only the bigots to be racist.
At a guess I would say:
- 10% are white bigots,
- 85% are white implicit racists and
- 5% are whites with integrity.
This blog seems to hold an attraction for whites at the extreme ends – bigots and those with integrity – but in my own offline experience both are rare. Implicit racism is the rule.
Take the test! For white North Americans only:
- Do you use the n-word?
- Are black people their own worst enemies?
- Are you racist?
Scoring: If you said yes to #1 you are probably a white bigot. If you said yes to #2 alone, you are most likely an implicit racist. If you said yes to #3 alone, you are probably a white with integrity. If you said something else, then it is complicated – but most likely you are an implicit racist of some sort.
I think nearly all Americans are racist, it is just a matter of degree and kind. Racism is so much a part of American culture – schoolbooks, television, ideas of beauty, etc – that it is hard to escape.
Racism is something you have to unlearn on purpose. Not by trying to not see colour but, as a first step, by understanding how racism works and how it has affected you. Start by reading Ronald Takaki’s “A Different Mirror” (2008).
See also:
#1 what about the types of black racist??? stating that most whites are racist is very racist in itself. #2 stating a fact that is true is not implied racsim as it does not place one race on a higher shelf than another race . so by defintion not racist. (this site is racist because it tends to place blame on all others for the problems of the black community onto the shoulders of other races) . the black community is it’s own worst enemy. #3 only a racist would ask a question like that.
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It’s really quite wrong when whites start promoting that “reverse racism” stuff. If a so-called white man doesn’t understand that being “white” is the norm and standard of everything in this society, and that this translates into real power, then he won’t understand the validity of this blog. Yes, blacks can be racially prejudiced. But racism has a history that whites do not understand because they don’t need to, since the world works for them as if naturally. Whites with extended, meaningful relationships with black people usually come to understand that blacks cannot take everyday things for granted the way whites can. To point this out is not reverse racism or “racist.” It’s reality. In a period when it is no longer fashionable to be outrightly, overtly, and ignorantly racist, the fact is that the majority “white” population have re-tooled their worldview. They don’t need to use the N-word except in private, and instead express their racialism in the political, social, cultural, and religious venues that carefully accommodate the centrality of whites. The point is that whites are always the norm, the regular, the standard human. Everyone else of color, especially blacks, have a racial prefix attached to their lives. When they let slip their racism, here and there, they act scandalized, as if it were an alien influence. But the majority white society is made up of “well-meaning” people who inherently exercise their racial prerogatives by the social circles, churches, politics, and cultural “votes” they cast everyday, as well as how they choose to overlook and deny the manifestations of racism. People don’t even have to be mean to do so, they just perpetuate the racial sensibilities that make them the most comfortable, and then point their fingers at the minority of flagrant, ignorant racists who are still working with the social toolbox of the mid-20th century. Let’s stop this whining about black racism and reverse racism.
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LMAO @ CircusBoy.
So naive.
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We can always count on circusboy for a good laugh. 😀
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Oh my goodness. Look who’s back from the circus looking to entertain us with the following comment:
“#1 what about the types of black racist??? stating that most whites are racist is very racist in itself. #2 stating a fact that is true is not implied racsim as it does not place one race on a higher shelf than another race . so by defintion not racist. (this site is racist because it tends to place blame on all others for the problems of the black community onto the shoulders of other races) . the black community is it’s own worst enemy. #3 only a racist would ask a question like that.”
Circusboy, it’s obvious you’re just a lonely troll with nothing better to do to. It’s also obvious that you are color-aroused to the point where only your statements matter regarding blacks right or wrong, and almost all of them are indeed wrong.
But as always, you do nothing but prove the cases presented. You don’t disprove them by a long shot. That is why you’re, at best, entertaining.
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I answered no to all three questions. Why does that make me an implicit racist?
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@Louis DeCaro Jr.
Excellent commentary!
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Abbie could have skipped all that and summed up his opinion with the following sentence:
Whites who agree with him have “integrity” and whites who don’t are “racist”. LOL!
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Of course in the US “white” is the norm, because white people are, or were anyways, the norm.
There is nothing innately racist about that in and of itself.
Its like saying that since most of the time families on TV if they are a religion, are created as christians than that is anti-pagan, jew or muslim.
Of course the norm of any group is going to think of itself as “the norm”, not saying that being the majority doesn’t have its advantages as compared to most minorities but that doesn’t in and of itself make being the norm racist, anti-semetic, homophobic etc…….
@Circusboy9010
Inregards to the last question being racist; relatively of whether its an effective question or not, Abagond has already said he is a racist himself.
He doesn’t deny it, simply accepts that growing up today makes it almost impossible for someone not to have picked up some amount of racism from one source or another.
As for are black people their own worst enemies?
Well; yes, people can go on about how much higher the rate black people kill white people than vice-a-versa but black people kill way more black people than they do white people in the US.
On the other hand; most business’s, legal and government positions are controlled by white people.
And many of these are controlled by older white people more likely to hold racist viewpoints and they will pass the reins onto white people not as old who will hold most likely only slightly less racist view points.
So can black people combat racist view points and job holders? Well; yes most black immigrants are successful and their children are successful, the more educated a black person is, the closer to closing the gap between the firing rate of black and white people they become. To the point they get fired at something like only 6% a higher rate than white people.
On the other hand, any level of education below a doctorate means a black person will be paid less than a white person, strangely enough at doctorate levels black people are on average paid “more” than white people.
And as for black racists:
Well:
#1:
Would be your uncle ruckus types ala Boondocks, the type of black person that also views black people as being inferior etc…..though their might be some confusion on occasion with the black immigrant that looks down on african-americans.
#2:
Would be your black social justice slacktivast sorts you see on various places on the internet. Alot of the times their own opinions on black people are just as bad or inaccurate as the racist, the biggest difference is they pity the black race instead of hating it.
You can see kind of the same thing with feminists as well.
#3:
Also mainly fits the SJSA sorts, they are unwilling to admit to their own racism.
They say they can’t be racist because they aren’t white, forgetting that racism isn’t just a black or white thing. That still leaves the mestizo’s, the asians, whatever racial groups I’m not thinking of and of course general bigotry against homosexuals or people not of the main stream religion.
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@ Abagond,
Deftly written and that test is a good measure although the instincts i had were to go for none of the answers although number 3 might in fact be the truth if i were to really look into the mirror. I guess racism for whites is a one day at a time struggle like alchohol or drug abuse. Own the addiction don’t let the addiction own you, as they say.
@ Louis De Caro Jr.,
Nicely stated. I think ‘reverse racism’ as some of the whites posters would like to shriek about is really a bunk concept altogether. As soon as they surrendar the white systemic supremacy that they have clung to for so long, then we can’t even talk about reverse racism as we know it. That reverse racism conversation is so far from the reality of white global privilege.
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duck,
You are so obtuse that you’re almost a parody of the whiteness mindset itself.
It is not a matter of agreeing or disagreeing alone. The notions that white people in general (not all) have towards blacks and other PoC have always been the “norm” if not accepted as “fact” no matter how low or false they are. What this blog and all others with the same objectives including my own are doing are challenging those notions. Why? Because they are immoral and illogical.
Some people are not going to sit back and not question the world around them, nor are they going to continue to accept that they are “born” to be a certain way based on something as ridiculous as skin color.
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Is it me or does duck try to turn everything into a cock fight?
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@abagond…my comment was referring to the bird not the “sword”
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I think the most likely explanation for the underrepresented Type 2 “White implicit racists” is that they are fairly comfortable with their racism. Their general apathy towards PoC, allows them a anxiety-free existence in ignorant bliss. They don’t feel the need to prove anything to anyone and often are the most socially mobile of the three groups.
Type 1 “White bigots” on the other hand are very emotionally insecure people. These are the types that MUST prove White superiority and Black inferiority, because they generally lack a positive stable self-image and social success frequently eludes them. Simply put, their skin color is their most valuable asset. Without it, they are lost in the White masses and confined to a life of mediocrity and anonymity. Their racism actually gives them a sense of purpose and sometimes even recognition/notoriety in their social circles.
Type 3 ‘Whites with integrity” will make their presence known on these blogs for various reasons. However, I will leave that speculation for others to elaborate on.
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Michelle,
It’s not just you. Duck wants to turn every post about white people an anti-white post.
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Very interesting post. I am, however, a little apprehensive about saying Tim Wise is a “white person with integrity.” He has certainly made millions trying to unlearn his racism. PoC have been talking about the same things he speaks with such authority on, for centuries. At the end of the day, he is a white man, with a core white audience, making money off of marginalized people’s experiences.
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Siah
PoC have been talking about the same things he speaks with such authority on, for centuries. At the end of the day, he is a white man, with a core white audience, making money off of marginalized people’s experiences.
Yep. But blacks love to hear it from a white guy so they can say, “See! White guy even says it so it must be true!” haha That’s why he makes mid six figures giving speeches to blacks. And he lives in a $600K house in an exclusive, white suburb of Nashville. No wonder he talks about “white privilege”. Not having to live around blacks is definitely a privilege. Blacks don’t even want to live around blacks. Abagond was complaining in one post that real estate agents weren’t showing him houses in black neighborhoods. Do you think whites, asians & hispanics ever complain about not being shown houses in black areas? Hail no!
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Correction: Abagond was complaining in one post that real estate agents weren’t showing him houses in white neighborhoods.
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@duckduckgoofs
you said…
Yep. But blacks love to hear it from a white guy so they can say, “See! White guy even says it so it must be true!”
By that logic…am I supposed to believe that what you say is true because you are a POC? You act like you are a white person who is racist against black people…but aren’t you mixed with black? I choose to gauge my beliefs off of first hand experience in that not all POC are racist against others. It sounds like you are the one who is taking a few bad experiences and labeling all black people as racist. I have never had a POC treat me as bad as how you are relentlessly treating others on here.
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@duckduckgoofs
My husband was a Real Estate agent and he saw the type of discrimination that abagond was referring to. I even questioned an agent for not showing me homes in a lower price bracket because she was showing us houses in the top of our price range…of course they are going to try and get the biggest commission but when I pulled listings off of the internet and showed her…she said she didn’t think we wanted to live “in that area”. My husband said it is against the law to discriminate in real estate but they are able to go around it. Most of the neighborhoods down here are owned by one Realtor and he is very picky on who he “allows” to buy houses in certain neighborhoods. Luckily we were able to find a home in a diverse neighborhood because I did not want my children growing up segregated like I did.
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I think the `white implicit racists’ can also have a lot of fear of people who are not White and, due to their lack of experience with any racialised people in their lives, this leads to a lot of ignorance and racism which they do not even realise is there. They go out of their way to separate themselves from these groups because of how uncomfortable they feel, yet will act overly friendly towards them if forcibly exposed to racialised people. Eventually, the thinly veiled ignorance and/or racism will peek out, though. When that happens and someone points out their ignorance/racism, it goes against their belief of being a good person because someone is telling them they believe something racist. Then there is the denial and anger.
I think there’s also another group: dumb people who simply absorb everything society tells them and accept it as truth. I know someone like this. If she hears people talking about `Pakis’ she simply absorbs it as an acceptable term to use. Then it doesn’t matter how many times you tell her it’s racist, she won’t get it. She will hear people talking about immigrants `coming and taking our jobs’, then she will accept it immediately as a fact without question, perhaps even get angry about it. These people can even end up in interracial relationships with immigrants (who are struggling to find work) and yet still get cross about immigrants supposedly nicking people’s jobs.
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duck,
You choose part of the sentence of my entire comment and replied as only you can, “Nice try but I know all about how much blacks like like “other PoC”. Sell that fertilizer to someone else.”
What do you mean that black like like “other PoC”? Elaborate.
Michelle said, “Duck wants to turn every post about white people an anti-white post.”
Your reply was “I don’t turn them into anything. They start out that way.”
So, you deny that you have any part in turning every post into a cock fight? If so, then that’s a cowardly ploy to scapegoat.
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Michelle,
I have a feeling your story means nothing to duck as he has shown that discrimination and racism against black people are no big deal to him, but prejudice against whites are or so it seems.
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@brothawolf
Ugh…I know. I keep getting sucked back in and replying to his ignorance. I quit responding to him because I knew it. was pointless.. but I have been out of the loop for a few weeks and today I got back on here and saw all of his posts and it just set something off in me again. I guess I had a moment. lol 😀
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Abagond:
Since my patience has waned, I’ll be brief:
There are NO 3 types of white racists.
There is ONLY white supremacy.
By distinguishing them from one another, you fall into the illusion that they are different. They are not. How do I know this?
Because a educated black man, to any supremacist, is still a ni@@er.
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“Because a educated black man, to any supremacist, is still a ni@@er.”
I agree that a supremacist feels that way…but what I am confused about is that if there is only white supremacy…then does that mean that I am not a racist at all in your opinion? Because I do not believe in white supremacy. I despise those ingrates. But I am not innocent either. I found out that asking someone where they are from…is offensive. But I have done it numerous times not ever thinking I would hurt someones feelings. I have made statements like “she is a beautiful black woman”…instead of just simply saying “she is beautiful”. Those are things that I learned recently about myself. I never intended to hurt anyone…but it does not take away from the fact that it did. And for that I feel like a complete ish! So can you explain to me what that makes me?
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long comment in moderation
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Michelle,
Well, I do believe, like Abagond, that if you’re born in a nation like the United States where whiteness is the norm and perceived “leader of all things”, more than likely, you will learn somehow – someway that you whiteness is all that and more and not know it.
You, as a white woman, may not have realized it growing up until something happened that shook you to where you questioned yourself and the society around you. You probably were brought up not to think about racism seeing as how you are at the side of the spectrum that doesn’t affect you or influence you to question, observe and learn about racism. As such you grew up in a kind of “bubble” that shields you from the experiences non-whites go through on a constant basis while providing the type of euphoria that comes with white skin and being white in America.
So, you may think or say something that’s offensive to a PoC without realizing that it is hurtful. When they react in a negative way, then you wonder why. When they explain, sometimes with emotions included, then you may feel offended at the tone or the response that question your integrity. Without knowing it, you were more upset at being lashed out than knowing that you’ve offended someone.
Some people will not comprehend why PoC are the way they are especially when it comes to reactions as a result to white comments. To some white people it is strange to them because black people are “strange” to them in some way. And given how blacks are seen in this nation, they are largely feared and demonized. They are less than human, and they are not white. In the end that’s what it comes down to.
However, this society wants to try to make the problem out to be that of blacks by subtly implying that “It’s your fault for being born black!” Of course, no one has ever said that – out loud at least, but the bottom line is that black skin is mostly seen as the shell of monsters out to attack “good and innocent” white people. Black skin is almost like a curse in this society. It is something black people deal with. While at the same time, white skin is a blessing. All are according to society’s standards.
But I’m rambling here. I’m sorry.
The major theme is that if you believe that you may be color-aroused, you just might be color-aroused and don’t even know it. Not too many people are aware. That’s the genius of whiteness.
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I can’t be sure, but from what I have experienced, living as a black person in America, most white ppl definitely fall into group #2, the implicit racist category. I honestly don’t think their is a sure way to tell, but your approx. percentages seem highly plausible to me also.
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michelle
By that logic…am I supposed to believe that what you say is true because you are a POC?
I never said that. The bigots on here are the are the ones who’ve repeatedly said white opinions are invalid.
It sounds like you are the one who is taking a few bad experiences and labeling all black people as racist. I have never had a POC treat me as bad as how you are relentlessly treating others on here.
Oh puh-lease. I grew up with plenty just like them. They talked garbage about being oppressed. Which was a lie because I grew up with them and knew it was a lie. And the whole time they were abusing others. And it wasn’t just a few bad apples. Decency was the exception. You can be naive and overlook it because you were sheltered.
if there is only white supremacy…then does that mean that I am not a racist at all in your opinion? Because I do not believe in white supremacy. (in response to truthbetold’s comment)
It means half the people here hate you. They just pat you on the head because you perform tricks for them.
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@ Duck
Please call people by their correct names. You can shorten their name but please to do not change it into something else, like “br’er wolf”.
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@ Abagond
Another unfortunate post on racism stuffed with ambiguities and contradictions. Its unfortunate because it continues to portray, just like in previous discussions, racism as a circular and insoluble problem that can never really be truly eradicated. Which begs the question why would you continually complain about it? Why not just accept it and move on?
If that is you belief then it really is unfortunate. But it would also help to explain why your blog attracts those extremes of views in #1’s and #2’s. They are obviously not as rare as you believe them to be.
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@ Kwamla
How does it portray racism as a a circular and insoluble problem that can never really be truly eradicated?
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Tim Wise is a rather blatant opportunist who panders to the guilt-indoctrinated university set to great profit. I’m surprised that he’d make your “integrity” list.
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@ Abagond
This is a general comment taking into account the numerous posts you’ve done on this and related topics. Rather than addressing the solutions they continually to attack the problems. Consciously or otherwise this gives the impression of a perpetual problem which has no resolution.
On a side note: Why do white people (#3’s) hate and demonise Tim Wise so much?
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Tim Wise is a rather blatant opportunist who panders to the guilt-indoctrinated university set to great profit. I’m surprised that he’d make your “integrity” list.
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@ Randy,
As oppose to who, Bill O’Reilly?
LOL.
Sit and Spin as Rosie O’Donnel would say to Donald Trump. XD
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@brothawolf
Thank you for the reply 🙂 I know this might seem frustrating to you and for that I apologize. But I am still confused because there are things that you said that I don’t feel apply to me. I am not sure how many of my comments you have read on here but I will try to explain the best that I can…
“You, as a white woman, may not have realized it growing up until something happened that shook you to where you questioned yourself and the society around you. You probably were brought up not to think about racism seeing as how you are at the side of the spectrum that doesn’t affect you or influence you to question, observe and learn about racism. As such you grew up in a kind of “bubble” that shields you from the experiences non-whites go through on a constant basis while providing the type of euphoria that comes with white skin and being white in America.”
I questioned racism from the time I was a young kid. Even before I knew that it was called “racism”. I didn’t exactly feel that euphoria that came from having white skin when I was a kid…because I was made fun of because of my lips and other features that did not look white to the white kids and there parents. I and my father were often told we were not white.
“So, you may think or say something that’s offensive to a PoC without realizing that it is hurtful. When they react in a negative way, then you wonder why. When they explain, sometimes with emotions included, then you may feel offended at the tone or the response that question your integrity. Without knowing it, you were more upset at being lashed out than knowing that you’ve offended someone.”
The reason I never realized it wasn’t hurtful before was because I did not get negative responses from my friends. But I have to wonder if I hurt them and they just never spoke up. I never got offended if my friends told me they thought what I said was hurtful because I never wanted to hurt them and I have had too many times in my life that I was told that my feelings didn’t matter because that was not what was intended and I didn’t want to make anyone feel the way I did.
I am fully aware of the opportunities for whites but I…for many years I have tried to be aware of people and businesses that are racist and I will not support businesses or interact with people that are not willing to change. When I was able to work…I would not let people get away with discrimination and racism. I know it is not much…but I even complained to a gas station down the road that had a sign on the door that said “No Hoodies Allowed” I told them that they never questioned me when I wore one but they always made a POC take their hood down. I told them that they might want to take down the sign or change it to read “No Black People With Hoodies Allowed”. Well…the sign is no longer there.
The thing is …it would be easy for me to dismiss that fact that I may of hurt someone if I was callous and believed it was their fault for not telling me. But I don’t feel that way. Racism is an uncomfortable subject for most people and I feel that It is my responsibility to be more aware of what I say and do to not hurt others. And the only way I am going to learn is by asking and reading comments and articles on sites like this.
I don’t think you were rambling. I always enjoy reading what you have to say. 🙂
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Bulanik:
I’d think a similar criticism of Grey would probably apply were he to be held up (by others or himself) as a noble figure addressing great unspeakable truths and purporting to carry water against social injustice.
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@Kwamla,
I could be wrong–as i have only been posting here a couple of months now–but i doubt Abagond’s intentions are what you infere here. As an African studies graduate, I too felt like I was going in circles by what scholars were saying about racism, but then as I kept reading and being open to new possibilities in learning, I saw that there was in fact so little that i did know. There is too much to the history and present dynamics of racism to simply try and place discussions about it in a vacuum… by only looking at it from a few angles and saying “ok we can move on now”.
I think Abagond does not write this blog for whites–although he has made it clear numerous times that all people are welcome here. I also thinks he writes for his own understanding and that of other black people. White racism could not keep holding its place if PoC did not allow it. The sad fact of the matter is that there are as many black people upholding white racism in very subtle ways as there are whites who we know are continuing on in this legacy and make no bones about it. My assumption is that since a black blogsphere does exist–Abagond’s musings and as you say attacks on the problems have probably never been heard by most of the blacks who lurk and frequent blogs written by other blacks. You never know whose reading and you never know if this blog will spark a young black mind into fighting for justice.
I mean, i’m only saying….
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Not sure about the first group. Granted, I don’t know many Americans, but I can’t believe only 10% hold this kind of beliefs.
I think it’s clear why #2 is not interested in this site. It deal with race, and they like to pretend race doesn’t exist. Those are people who claim to be colour blind and who think that talking about race makes racism worse.
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“…I think the parallel between Tim Wise and Dr Gray is sound…”
I would agree, from what I know of John Gray, about making this analogy. Its not unreasonable. I am sure many others could be made about other white people too. But essentially the question still remains why are typical #3’s so irked by what Mr Wise has successfully achieved?
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@ phoebeprunelle
“…I could be wrong–as i have only been posting here a couple of months now–but i doubt Abagond’s intentions are what you infere here…”
Well I’ve been posting here for quite some time now. Several years to be exact. So I’ve read and commented on a lot more posts than you would have had the opportunity to do so far in the few months you’ve been here. But that doesn’t necessarily mean your observations are wrong.
“…There is too much to the history and present dynamics of racism to simply try and place discussions about it in a vacuum… by only looking at it from a few angles and saying “ok we can move on now…”
This is very true and I agree. There are very few, if at all any, similar forums like this anywhere else on the internet that attempt this type of indepth exploration and analysis of racism and its related issues. So it has become a learning and growing experience for all of us who participate on it here.
At the same time its also become stunted, some what, by the contradictory and ambiguous beliefs of its author – Abagond. There are no shortage of comments from myself or others to testify to this. This may not be a problem initially for newcomers but it does manifest itself later as a pattern of circular and seemingly intractable debates. Hence the recently opened – “Broken Record” section. Which I thought, and did comment at the time, was a good idea.
But this still leaves, in my opinion: racism as a circular and insoluble problem which needs to be addressed otherwise it creates this as lasting impression regardless of whether this is unconsciously or consciously intended.
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@ Everyone
I did a post on Tim Wise. Tim Wise knows that the fastest way to capitalize on white AmeriKlans alleged guilt is to repeat, verbatim, what blacks have been saying for years neatly packaged in pink skin.
If Whites who speak out against injustice are sooooo guilty for the past and they truly wish to make amends, why not start a school for disenfranchised youths? Why not set up a scholarship foundation to help the very people they claim to want to help?
Because money, being the ultimate motivator, always comes first with certain groups.
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Kwamla,
I see Tim Wise as being a race-baiting opportunist who cloaks himself in officious approval from the rigidly dogmatic and dissent-intolerant political correctness organs within western society (Such as social “science” departments in universities, demographic grievance NGOs), supplying confirmation bias-satisfying diatribes to unskeptical masses.
Perhaps he differs from Grey rather significantly in that his message is more like, “People of Color are From Mars, White People are Evil and the Primary Cause of Suffering of PoC” than Grey’s apparent perspective of “Men and women are equally good, but have dissimilar natures.”
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diaryofanegress:
Agreed.
Further, they should move and enroll their children in minority-majority schools to demonstrate their dedication and commitment to diversity.
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@Randy
Agreed.
Further, they should move and enroll their children in minority-majority schools to demonstrate their dedication and commitment to diversity.
I can’t help thinking that this is a loaded statement with some other kind of sentiment lurking underneath….
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@Randy ^^^
Agreed.
Further, they should move and enroll their children in minority-majority schools to demonstrate their dedication and commitment to diversity.
I can’t help thinking that this is a loaded statement with some other kind of sentiment lurking underneath….
I hit ‘send’ too soon. By this comment I mean that it is as though you distance yourself from from anyone demonstrating a commitment to diversity – what, in your opinion is wrong with appreciating diversity?
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@Bulanik
I notice JT gets given a hard time by some other commenters – perhaps they feel his stance on race and such matters too closely resembles that of Mr Wise?
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“… Randy always loads his statements before he wraps them in politeness.”
LOL!
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Demerera said:
I’m not criticizing the appreciation of diversity. To each his own.
From my observation of the stereotypical “guilty white liberal” set, particularly the upper middle class and above variety, there often exists a disparity between their claims and their actions.
In other words, the phrase “Diversity is our strength” would often more truthfully be amended to, “Diversity is our strength, just not, you know, in MY gated community, or the $28,000/year primary school where I send my children”.
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Duck,
You told Michelle, “I never said that. The bigots on here are the are the ones who’ve repeatedly said white opinions are invalid.”
Name one person who said that. One. Besides, you think black opinions are invalid if they don’t agree with you. You know that’s true.
She mentioned that, “It sounds like you are the one who is taking a few bad experiences and labeling all black people as racist. I have never had a POC treat me as bad as how you are relentlessly treating others on here.”
You replied, “Oh puh-lease. I grew up with plenty just like them. They talked garbage about being oppressed. Which was a lie because I grew up with them and knew it was a lie. And the whole time they were abusing others. And it wasn’t just a few bad apples. Decency was the exception. You can be naive and overlook it because you were sheltered.”
And why do you consider it garbage? What did you find out that disproved that they were being oppressed? (This should be good.) And it has to be more significant than just “growing up with them”, and if they weren’t oppressed, then like the genius that you are, you applied that – more or less- to most of the entire black population of the U.S. You can’t or won’t realize how ridiculous that kind of thinking really is. Yet, you don’t understand why we should object to it.
Seriously, what is your problem with black people? (rhetorical question)
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Bulanik,
I’m unfamiliar with the details of Grey’s work., so I’ll defer to your interpretation and criticism of them.
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@Randy
I’m not criticizing the appreciation of diversity. To each his own.
Whilst you maintain you are not critical of it – are you for it? Your comment above is quite ambiguous in terms of your own stance.
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@ Bulanik
While I like your analogy with John Gray and Time Wise. My own assessment of his work would be a bit more generous than what you’ve given here. I’d hardly describe his books as a perpetuation of misogynistic ideals. But that would probably be another discussion. The point is, even if what you’ve said about him were true he is not hated or detested by men or women for it. He could be. But he’s not. Tim Wise is. Nothing I’ve read so far adequately accounts for Tim’s unique loathing in this respect!.
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@ Bulanik.
Ok…Well that makes sense then!
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bro wolf
As per abag’s humorless request, I’ve shortened your name. I personally think it was more about my nick for him. He didn’t want to admit it was getting to him. haha
What do you mean that black like like “other PoC”? Elaborate.
The double “like like” was a typo. I’m saying I know all about how well blacks treat other “PoC” which is to say — not very well.
So, you deny that you have any part in turning every post into a c0ck fight? If so, then that’s a cowardly ploy to scapegoat.
Abag’s blog promotes bigotry. He says himself that he’s a racist. So it’s disingenuous to claim I’m the one turning it into a “c0ck fight”. As the saying goes, don’t start nothing and there won’t be nothing.
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demer
what, in your opinion is wrong with appreciating diversity?
Pardon the interjection but if those people really “appreciated diversity” they’d be moving towards it rather than away from it. In my observation, those who want diversity the most are usually those who’ve never had it. Nothing cures the thirst like a good dose. The exception being a handful of people with emotional problems.
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@ Bulanik & Demerera,
Thank you both. I’ve seen you both verbally ‘slay’ some your own, that’s for sure. LOL but just like the undead, they keep coming
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Demerera
I think when discussing “diversity”, one needs to properly define it, as the term can apply to any number of dimensions such as race, ethnicity, religious affiliation, socio-economic status, education, nationality, age, etc)
As such, it seems rather non-rational that “diversity” as a strength should have reached the current level of dogmatic acceptance, given the myriad meanings which it entails, and the nearly uncountable circumstances in which it may or may not be advantageous.
In social terms, racial, ethnic, national, and religous diversity appears generate less social trust than homogeneity. Much of the world’s conflicts erupt in areas of diversity. Peaceful communities in the west also seem to not benefit from it.
See here for one explanation: http://www.boston.com/news/globe/ideas/articles/2007/08/04/the_downside_of_diversity/?page=full.
On the other hand, if you are part of an organization which services a diverse community, then diversity within your organization may better help you to align with your customers/constituents.
If you’re asking whether or not I purposely select options for my family which promote diversity, I do not. I evaluate educational choices primarily on the basis of scholastic performance, availability, and affordability.
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duck,
You said, “The double “like like” was a typo. I’m saying I know all about how well blacks treat other “PoC” which is to say — not very well.”
1. I see what you’re saying now.
2. You only see that around your area. It is not ubiquitous to most or all of the black population. And from what I’ve seen, whites are no different, but I guess to you, the ones around you do treat them a lot better which means that most or all do when it comes to your brand of reasoning. lol
Then you said, “Abag’s blog promotes bigotry. He says himself that he’s a racist. So it’s disingenuous to claim I’m the one turning it into a “c0ck fight”. As the saying goes, don’t start nothing and there won’t be nothing.”
Abagond admitted that he’s a racist. What’s your excuse?
Anyway, just because he admit to being a racist, that doesn’t mean he starts any fights, especially with you. YOU are the one who sees this blog as a promotion for bigotry. YOU are the one who believes this blog is racist against whites for no good reason according to YOU. And YOU are the one who comes back on his own free will to the very site that promotes bigotry.
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duck,
And like Demerera said, you sure do a lot of observing, but I would like to add that while you do, you seem to tag what you see to most or an entire group.
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Demerera:
Sorry, perhaps my earlier answer was unclear.
If a WM promoted diversity with words but not actions, such living in a non-diverse neighborhood and sending his kids to a non-diverse school, then I think that person is open to the charge of hypocrisy.
What a person does with their children tells more about their real values than any quantity of words or text.
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@ Everyone
Duckduck uses the shortened version of your names as a passive-aggressive act of defiance.
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@truthbetold
That’s OK, just call him “Goofy”.
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@Randy
What a person does with their children tells more about their real values than any quantity of words or text.
I agree. Strange though, I didnt get this sense from you when we were discussing the behaviour of the two girls on the ‘Racist teen rant’ thread….
Sorry, perhaps my earlier answer was unclear.
If a WM promoted diversity with words but not actions, such living in a non-diverse neighborhood and sending his kids to a non-diverse school, then I think that person is open to the charge of hypocrisy.
No, your answer was not unclear perhaps my question was. I presented a scenario to the converse of your ‘words but not actions’ individuals. My question was, do you respect the decision of other WP who promote diversity or do you still think their motivations must be questionable by simple definition of the hue of their skin?
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Demerera:
I don’t think there is any ground for questioning the motivation of someone whose actions are congruent with their words.
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Duckduck uses the shortened version of your names as a passive-aggressive act of defiance.
Ya think? Maybe a little. But mostly I do it because I think its funny.
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That’s OK, just call him “Goofy”.
Oh, for crying out loud! Not only did you violate abag’s rule but you missed a fantastic opportunity to shorten my name to “du”. Do I have to do everything myself? *smh*
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lara
Don’t feel too bad about your low score. With a little effort I’m sure you could be hitting triples in no time. haha
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Abagond, you’re throwing the term ‘racism’ around but what you seem to mean particularly in reference to ‘white implict racists’ is prejudice – an attitude, not a behaviour, and not the equivalent of racism. I absolutely would never use the n-word and don’t consider myself racist, but I would say at times, like most people I can be prejudiced or stereotype others – racism altogether is a different thing. This post and the test is not enlightening or useful, you should spend more time writing about what’s good in the world and less on this rubbish.
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Kate,
Why don’t you start a blog of your own and do just that instead of telling others what they should write to please you?
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DuduGoo? A little childish, but it suits you.
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@ Kate
Racism is the belief that one race is naturally better than another and implicit racism fits that. Racism is a set of ideas that affects behavior.
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racism is hate and intolerance – there is nothing implict about it, what you are describing is prejudice. And it’s true that prejudice is the seed of racism, but that does not mean it takes root in all people, black or white. I came onto this site because I had just watched the movie ‘Skin’ and was really moved by it and happy there were other people who felt the same way. Then I saw this post and wanted to share my opinion because this is an open forum and I can – if you’re going to write about racism – do it in a way that benefits others (i.e apartheid and the Sandra Laing story), because this post is a joke – go ahead brothawolf do your worst!
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“if you’re going to write about racism – do it in a way that benefits others (i.e apartheid and the Sandra Laing story), because this post is a joke ..”
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Kate
Are you a WHITE person??
Please explain why/how many, if not all, of Abagond’s posts on racism does NOT benefit me – and other black people.
Also, please share with us how long you’ve been on the receiving end of racism and how/why your unique experiences qualifies YOU to say that hate, ignorance and prejudice based upon skin color isn’t racism. How did YOU become an expert on what is – or isn’t – racism?
Finally – why do you believe you have the authority to come on a blog site and DICTATE to the site’s owner how he should write about racism – and still be taken as a *serious* commenter with valid ideas or input??? Do you conduct your day to day conversations, face to face with others in this same authoritative – dictatorial – fashion??
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Matari, are my ideas and values only valid when they corroborate with yours? Should I not have be allowed to have an opinion because I am white? A white Australian? If you thought my reply was aggressive or dictatorial I apologise because it was not intended to be and perhaps you should read my reply closer because it said hate and intolerance describes racism and what abagond describes as an implict white racist is describing prejudice, which is different from racism. I believe I have the ABILITY not the authority to come onto any person’s site who shares their opinion and share mine with them. Working with Indigenous Australian children unfortunately I see racism and prejudice often – but lumping white people into three categories as if it is that simple IS ridiculous – l havent read all Abagond’s posts only this one and the one on ‘Skin’ – all I was saying is that I found the ‘Skin’ post uplifting, whereas this one is awful.
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Well you always were one for seeking and displaying more indepth analysis in your comments Bulanik so I am not surprised to see you making this charge.
Its one thing to draw attention to the inconsistencies of others (white people) and show how illogical and irrational their arguments can be when it comes to discussing items of racism…And to do this is in post after post…
But its quite another thing to pay no attention to how your own inconsistencies and irrationality in the use of logic are being played out in your own counter arguments or descriptions of racism.
The general theme running through Abagond’s posts seems to be white people – white Americans specifically – need to check and question their own deeply held, ingrained racist belief structure. This is a reasonable assertion given global white supremacy is an undeniable cultural reality on this planet.
But its also a reasonable assertion to say Black people – Black Americans – specifically – need to check and question their own deeply ingrained responses to racism too!!!
What is the point. And where is the logic or rationality in calling out white people on their embedded racism while at the same time admitting to your own deeply embedded racism???
This is inconsistent, irrational logic and is the cause of much of the continuous circular and intractable arguments about racism on this blog. It may well serve to increase Abagond’s blog stats and new visitors but the bigger questions of how to attain any type of resolution to this pernicious ideology, in the meantime sadly, goes unaddressed.
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@ Kwamla,
I would agree with your overriding point if we hadn’t already let ‘race realists’ stew in their filth since forever being allowed to generate all sorts of filth that they say qualify as independent thought.
That is where we are at as a people – you don’t FORCE people to release their hatred they will clench onto it for the ‘strength’ it provides them.
I for one agree with this idea that Bulanik and Abagond seem to be espousing. HOLD THE GROUND OF MEANING at all costs. The alternative is ugly, ugly, ugly.
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@ JT
I have to say I don’t understand anything in the last post you wrote. Could you perhaps break this down again for me…
Also…I’d be interested to know what it is you believe Bulanik and Abagond seem to be espousing….could you break down this as well. Then I can respond.
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@ Bulanik
“…I think what I’m saying is that Abagond seeks truth, but he could go deeper more often. This is not a question of brevity, it is a question of depth…”
Its frustrating as you point out because deeper questions are not being addressed by Abagond. In fact they are (it seems to me) deliberately being ignored. To explore them would require deeper introspection on Abagond’s part about personally held questionable beliefs. But this is not something he is willing to do at this time. Again, this is a shame because many would see this as an opportunity for inner spiritual growth. The irony of it all is this is no different from the same protestations being made to white Americans to do the very same thing!
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@ Kwamla,
Yeah, that last post of mine was incoherent. Sorry. What i mean to say is this:
white racists have largely dictated the discursive grounds over the last 500 – they have controlled how race has been talked about in popular media. If you let them, they will continue that for another 500 years. They want more than anything to be able to say the n-word when they want. They want more than anything to be able to say Trayvon deserved to die. They are not the congenial people that respond to reason. They have to be MADE to understand how they create information/perspectives is flawed & destructive. If they don’t get held to account or have new perspectives of the racial diarrhea that they spew, they will just spew more to justify their hatred for Blacks and other POC.
^^^ This is what i argue is what Bulanik and Abagond both espouse. Don’t let them hold the terms within which we argue. And one way in which that is done is by refusing to hold them to account of the very arguementation-style that they choose:
Attribute good things to all Whites – bad things to exceptional Whites.
Attribute bad things to all Blacks – good things to exceptional Blacks.
Fail to call them to account for this racist premise that underpins their discourse and you fail to address racism at its heart. This is why i think what they do is invaluable.
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Kate writes: “…all I was saying is that I found the ‘Skin’ post uplifting, whereas this one is awful.”
– – –
“Skin”, Sandra Laing’s life story is, in my opinion, a particularly sad one — a Black girl born to racist whites in apartheid era South Africa.
What did you find to be particularly “uplifting” about that story/post? Perhaps I need to read again….
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I’ve come across your site before but just now took the time to read some posts. I’m digging to the fullest.
Oh yeah, I agree with your observations in this post.
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Kate
(Broken Record..)
What I find interesting is not so much your opinion, but the way you show up here – offering IT in that all too familiar – and tiresome – patriarchal sounding (at least to me) WHITE KNOWS BEST/WHITE IS RIGHT tone that this site somehow attracts.
Abagond has a thousand different methodologies or ways to unpack the endless complexities of ever changing modern racism. Hence this blog! He writes for himself, primarily… and for those who likewise share the same experiences dealing with racism/white supremacy, second.
With this particular post, it seems he has simplified the complexities, or TYPES of WHITE SUPREMACY/RACISM and transformed them into the lowest common denominator. In this case 3 easily identifiable – understandable categories types of racism.
You wrote:
“if you’re going to write about racism – do it in a way that benefits others … because this post is a joke ..”
While this simplicity (or post) may not “benefit” you, you don’t get to decide if it benefits me or others – as you implied.
Some of us who obtain much benefit from this site come here to receive validation and VINDICATION regarding OUR unique experiences and insights on dealing with the subject matter – a subject that consistently eludes most whites.
Here’s the bottom line, While it is within your purview as a poster to share your opinions just as others here do, it isn’t your right to demand how or what he writes about. If you do that, there are some folks here who won’t take you seriously … and will treat your posts accordingly. Now you know.
It’s possible that you may further your understanding and insights on the subject of race if you practice reading more and writing less.
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@Matari
I agree with you. I had a young person of color but I have already experienced some pretty racial experiences that have changed my life.
All of this racism crap on both sides need to stop because God made all of us equal in His eyes but unfortunately not everyone thinks.
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Racism has to go. But sadly it is so ingrained in this country that it will take years if not another century until racism is gone in America.
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It seems very likely that at least 10% of Americans are racist. It also seems likely that the “system” itself is biased towards rich white males and thus against everyone else to varying degrees.
However, nobody posting here controls the “system”. All we have is our little bits of input into it, whether voting, or hiring, or simply being nice to others. I work to keep my side of the street clean and thus my input to the system reflects that. What the system does to me in response, positive or negative, I don’t have any control over, any more than anyone else posting here does. I do what I CAN to improve the system and end racism. If that isn’t good enough for some and puts me in category two that’s just too bad. If there is something concrete I’m not doing but could I’m glad to hear about it. If I do something accidental that offends someone, I’m also glad to hear about it when done in a positive manner. Someone who is intentionally rude in response will get whatever level of response the rudeness seems to require.
I agree with Kwamla in that most of the discussion here about whites results in a circular reinforcement of the problem, not an end to it. Lumping 95% of whites into the “some level of racist” category while perhaps making the author feel good, simply results in the 85% shaking their heads and moving on with their lives.
Finally, while I appreciate diversity in society, I will not sacrifice my child’s education on its alter. The ONLY criteria I have for a school is opportunities presented, and I worked many hours over the past year to improve such for my child’s 50% minority school. Unfortunately only a few take advantage of after school and outside activities in education. If the school and the other parents are not supportive of such activities, my child will go where they are, diverse or not. In fact my child will attend a private high school, after a solid year of abuse for being a nerd and a freak as the top student in the school and coming home crying. She is also Asperger’s and easy to victimize as she is socially very backward. Her needs come first, everyone elses, including my own, come after that. That’s life.
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@ joshua
I am not writing this blog for white people. If I were I would go about it in a completely different way. For one, I would keep the r-word and black people completely out of it. Completely. I would not question the good-heartedness and morals of white people. Not ever. I would probably write about Asian American history but without using the word “white”. Ever. Because most White Americans have a thousand and one defences against ever changing their mind about their racist position in society. Once you cross one of their tripwires, like by using the r-word or talking about black people, it is Game Over.
More:
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I did not say you were writing for white people. I stated that the discussion about whites here results in reinforcement of the problem, whether that mind is black, white, or striped. The idea should be to find a way to break the loop I would think, not come up with arguments and ideas to perpetuate it (that some here latch onto as gospel). But then maybe not.
The hyperbole in the remainder is left uncommented.
@ Lara
That’s because the word itself has become emotion laden. If you assert to most of the white people you meet that they are racist, and they become enraged or simply walk away, what exactly has been accomplished? Do they become less racist? Have you reduced the problem? Have you convinced someone else that you are either a b itch or a nut? Do you feel better as a result?
Are you racist to some degree?
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@Lara
People can be blind to their own ignorance. Sometimes actions have a greater impact than words. So a person that has never said a “racist” word in there life but act in a different and negative manner around someone based solely on appearance is a form of “passive racism” or at least prejudice. Racism can have many forms that aren’t outright or even intentional. That is why it is important to be aware.
Also your last comment here…
“I don’t think black people should go around accusing all white people of being racist. That wouldn’t make them very popular. I just think that blacks should stop expecting so much of white people. They might actually be pleasantly surprised if they lower their expectations of us.”
Would be more effective with things like “black people that I have interacted with that…” etc. because otherwise you are passing opinion off as a fact and it can come off as stereotyping since the thoughts of all Black individuals (us) are not the same/common as some whites (them/you) that you have presented in your statement. That last comment just like this one I just made is a personalized and individual opinion. I write for myself only and to voice only my view.
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@Lara
I’m shocked that you felt that way from having a opinion (feeling inferior). Just as long as you know, IMO, that you only need to live for you, your family or others that you care about then you will be find the opinions of outsiders isn’t worth considering. It can be draining to have to defend yourself almost all the time. I can definitely understand and respect how you feel and to me a strong personality can keep someone away from trouble or bad lifestyles. Its a good if not great thing to have.
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[…] many types of racists are there in Finland? July 2, 2012By Enrique TessieriI read an interesting blog entry by Julian Abagond that highlights three types of racists in the United States: white bigots, white […]
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I would take Tim Wise off that list. He’s not all that he seems. He’s a sly fox.
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I will never understand black people who try to point out white racism and then don’t acknowledge that their actions are racist towards white people. We are all human, we all originated from the same place. Racism is never okay no matter what way it goes.
And people like you are the reason racism will never go away. You were taught from a young age while you were very impressionable that either all white people are racist (if you are black) or that black people were stupid/lazy (if you are white). All of these are dumb stereotypes that exist because the people are told this from birth and get it in their head that their race determines their character. If everyone would just clear their mind and accept people as humans and not as a color life would be much better.
P.S. I am a black female with a white fiance and we both agree that at this point racial issues should not be a problem which is the focus of my dissertation
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@bsw_unc
I will never understand black people who try to point out white racism and then don’t acknowledge that their actions are racist towards white people. We are all human, we all originated from the same place. Racism is never okay no matter what way it goes
Can you honestly and categorically say that you have never been, felt judged by the colour of your skin? That people of other races have always treated you humanely?
I suggest you read other posts on the blog a bit more – it might inform your studies.
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Those who say God made us equal are jokers. The only thing that makes men equal is birth, sickness and death.
Do you consider yourself equal to primitive societies? How many of you would live among them by choice.
Find me a European culture/nations which equals to those primitive culture you still see in some part of Asia and mostly Africa?
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@anonymous:
Are you a minion of Cthulu? You are ripe for mockery, carry on!
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@ Anomymous
Non-Europeans may be “primitive”, but at least we don’t have low birth rates.
Enjoy your extinction, bro. It’s been real!
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[…] “Three Kinds of White Racists” is the best, to me, but might upset people who are not ready to admit to being racist.) & […]
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Many white people carry prejudices against non-whites. The very fact that white people tell minority people that “they” shouldn’t “feel” offended is dehumanizing and patronizing and condescending. They basically dismiss every minority persons’ feelings and thoughts.
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@Anomymous
Your racism and ignorance makes me laugh!!!!!!!!! Whites stole from African civilizations and gave themselves credit for creating them! Many Asian civilizations were far more advanced than European civilizations in the 1100s-1200s.
Black people were the first people on earth and the ones who built civilization! Your White ancestors were living in caves when Blacks and Asians helped build civilizations.
The very people you mock are the reason why you are earth today because without Black people, humans wouldn’t even exist!
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Another thing, as a young, Black woman, I study the words and actions of MANY if not MOST White Americans and honestly, I believe about 60%-75% of the White American population is racist. About 50%-60% of White Americans are closet racists in this percentage I made up based on experience and use subtle language to cover up their racism and a lot of their actions show that they dislike Blacks deep down. And sometimes I notice when they walk and talk, I can tell that they think they are better than Blacks and other minorities. Sadly many of them don’t see anything wrong with their ways since they benefit from the racist White supremacy system that places them above Blacks and other minorities. Most White Americans fit into this group.
About 15% -25% of White Americans are openly racist and aren’t so subtle with their racism either aka the Neo Nazis, Skinheads, many rednecks etc. This group only makes up a minority of White Americans.
Only a small percentage of White Americans actually fit against racism in this society and I think this percentage is very low 5%-25%.
Abagond, I know you got 85% implicit racist and I wonder if I left off the other 10%-15%.
I also believe there are many minorities that are racist as well including some Blacks, Latinos and Asians.
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Tim Wise is a blatant opportunist. Genuine white solidarity with African liberation must be based on a struggle against colonialism under the leadership of the African working class. We called out Wiee here, please share: http://uhurunews.com/story?resource_name=the-white-opportunism-of-tim-wise-versus-the-african-revolution
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@uhurusolidarity thank you for bringing this article to my attention.
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@uhurusolidarity
Yes great article.
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All of this gives me pause for thought. Much to be considered in this thread post.
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uhurusolidarity…i dont agree at all with your blog
you mention Venezuela, we had a big discusion on here about Chavez…anybody been following what really is happening there now? Do people really want to look at the reality of Chavez’s memory, or a fantacy world that they want to beleive …Venezuela is tanking big time right now because of the legacy of Chavez and his ridiculous notions . I mean seriously , people trot out this trash about the evils of capitalism, but, they arnt really looking at the truth
they dont want to know Cuba is racist also..they get wrapped up in their own little political agenda and put the blinders on
people will never really understand racism if they cant deal with it on its own terms. Eliminate capitalism and racism will still exist…big time
I brought in a huge list of across the board countries, religions, and various political backgrounds , from various decades , who all had banned some form of Afro diasporic cultures
yeah, anything but really look at the truth of the matter of racism
the truth about slavery, its before capitalism and communism but had elements of both…sure there were people making money, and at the same time, a plantation is like a communinst dictatorship
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@ uhurusolidarity
My thanks also. Excellent link.
When I read the following quote from Mr Omali Yeshitela I nearly cheered aloud.
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yeah, abagond, put all my shit in moderation when the workers party starts brining in their cra´p, give me a fucking break
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Comment in moderation?
Abagond, why did that post get netted, please? I can’t see anything obvious…
Thanks.
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http://www.havanatimes.org/?p=97541
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http://www.therealcuba.com/Page21.htm
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http://www.ipsnews.net/2013/06/redoubling-efforts-against-racism-in-cuba/
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Click to access Slavery_and_Mercantilism.pdf
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Click to access slavery002.pdf
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http://www.theatlanticcities.com/jobs-and-economy/2013/06/venezuelas-still-suffering-extreme-toilet-paper-shortage/5801/
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http://www.ibtimes.com/venezuelas-economy-will-continue-suffer-2014-analysts-predict-further-recession-devaluation-bolivar
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http://topics.nytimes.com/top/news/international/countriesandterritories/venezuela/
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My “moderation” query referred to my own comment of thanks to uhurusolidarity, not to anyone else’s er… stuff that may have been moderated.
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@br i didn’t dive too deep into the context of uhuru’s link, from it i extracted not so much specific political entities, but something of a thought about classism/capitalism/colonialism which, which seen as some type of entity or process, certainly didn’t pre-date slavery, particularly in the US, but sort of absorbed it? or used it as a tool to its own end? I have some type of paper i want to write out of all that, and i certainly didn’t take it as an invitation to neo-marxism, which is what you are seeming to imply, albeit i am not familiar with the political organizations that are named in the blog post…
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* certainly didn’t pre-date slavery. But with regards to the US, sort of absorbed it or used it as a tool towards its own end?
{correction}
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v8 , that site had the “workers unite” vibe all over it…i dont care about Wise, maybe they are right about that…but, they start calling for workers unite (using African) and start rattling off countries including Venezuela…the Bolivarian revolution…and we actualy discussed Chavez, but, has anyone else been following Venezuela since then? The legacy of Chavez and the “workers unite, rail against America and capitalism” railing he indulged in and his predicessor, is tanking right now…very powerfully, and they dont have any US emargo, in fact we are huge customors and they are oil rich…their policies, political agendas etc, are failing miserably
I dont care if its neo marxism or what ever, just out and out anti capitalism , with out distinguishing predatory capitalism , which we in America are struggling with now (i dont live in america but im american) , is something i just dont trust . I beleive our system has all the ability to make change within it and that means capitalism should have regulation at the top and be able to give everyone a fare shake and oportunity..which is also in struggle . But, its mostly the apathy of people from really dealing with this…we have made slow progress through laws and the courts, and, in spite of some of the most oprresive racism anywhere, black Americans , through great struggle and vigilance, have aceived wealth and power that you just dont see in a place like Brazil, easily one of the countries most close to our dynamic in size and history…
What is really relevant to this thread, is the mistake it would be to equate slavery and racism with capitalism…of course they can cross lines, like in the real estate white flight…but , its just not the actual face of capitalism…the racism is another catagory that seriously needs facing on its own terms
Just look at the huge list of countries banning afro diasporic culture, from all political walks , many locations on the planet and religions…no other culture has been so opressed world wide from the people who crossed the Red Sea as the Afro diasporic cultures..because Afro diasporic cultures have been five steps ahead of the other cultures in innovation, and, they rub up against them and these other peoples and cultures cant handle it..that is one of the faces and origins of racism against Afro diasporic peoples…and the fact that Europe and the Arabs, deemed these people who were phenotype similar, yet ethnicly more diverse than anywhere, with a cultures that have links the way Europe has links between countries that actualy were at war with each other most of the time, through European classical music, they deemed these people inferior..and worthy of slavery in the millions
and their religions have more to do with this than political philosophies
yes, you have to look at the Arab slave trade also, you cant use the Arab trader argument, this isnt about who was worse, its about both of them snatched millions and millions of people, deemed culturaly inferior…and that is one of the legacies of slavery and one of the faces of racism that is passed down here into today
was the Arab slave trade capitalism? there biggest slave trade was the Ottman empire in the 19th century
I suggest that the Atlantic slave trade did have some origins of capitalism but also of communism, you cant tell me a plantation isnt like a communist dictatorship…these political philosophies came out of Europe and were solidified in the 19th century, isnt it possibe to think that early origins of this were expressed in this mercantilism period?
to understand racism, you cant drive the car with the hands on the rear view mirror superimposing what a persong thinks is the truth to satisfy their anti capitalist agenda…looking at religion and cultural racism is a much bigger picture if you ask me
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Reblogged this on realblackpower's Blog.
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The question, can blacks be racist? is the same as saying Jews should love German Nazis, why should there be any effort to like a race of people who have murdered you collectiv3ly for the last 500 years and continue to do so? The reality is blacks should never consider whites people eligable to be associated with. Thats like trusting an x child rapist to baby sit your child. Non of it make sense.
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Abagond, why is the article title “The three kinds of white racists”?
It seems you list two kinds.
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@ Glen
Nearly all Whites are racist. That goes for those with integrity.
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@”10% are white bigots,
85% are white implicit racists and
5% are whites with integrity.”
I wonder if the election of Trump changed abagond’s mind about these percentages.
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eek one from the wayback machine
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I’d put “whites with integrity” at less then 1%.
Not sure if Michael Wise is a good example since he makes a living writing and speaking “anti racism”.
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I’d put “whites with integrity” at less then 1%.
Not sure if Michael Wise is a good example since he makes a living writing and speaking “anti racism”.
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