Here is what I should regard as the physically perfect woman according to my own measurable preferences:
- Height: 165 cm (5 foot 5)
- Weight: 58 kg (128 lbs)
- Cup size: B
- Dress size: 7 (US)
- Hair length: medium
- Hair colour: black
- Eye colour: brown
- Skin colour: brown
The model shown at right, Courtney Comer, is a close overall fit to this description.
How I arrived at this: I went to modelmayhem.com, a modelling website. I gathered facts and figures of 25 models I liked and took the average. That is what is listed above.
Of course a modelling website hardly represents the full range of female beauty. But the above description does not seem to be too far off for me: it is a fair description of my wife when I first met her.
Please note, this is just my own personal preference. Different men have different tastes. And even for me a woman can fit all these things and still not be good-looking or fit none of them and still be utterly beautiful. Because beauty goes beyond any of this stuff.
Yet it has something to do with beauty somehow.
How I can tell: Modelmayhem.com lets you search for models according to things like height, weight, eye colour, etc. What you search on can make a huge difference in the number of good-looking women that appear.
These produce the greatest number of good-looking women, listed from the most important to the least:
- Hair colour: black
- Height: 160 to 170 cm (5 foot 3 to 5 foot 7)
- Skin colour: brown
- Weight: 55 to 70 kg (121 to 155 lbs)
- Dress size: 6 to 16
- Cup size: B or C
Weight: I know some will not like this part. In my defence, 55 to 70 kg is pretty much the healthy weight range for 170 cm – neither anorexic nor overweight. For 160 cm, the last six kilos (or 13 lbs) of that range would be overweight, though not obese – according to BMI. Some women who are overweight according to BMI look perfectly fine to me.
Dress size works almost as good as weight.
Height: I did not expect this to make any difference, but it did, a pretty big one, second only to hair colour. I do not know why.
What made little difference:
- Eye colour
- Hair length
Other things you can search on that had no clear effect in terms of beauty:
- Age: This made little difference. Probably because nearly all the models are between 18 and 30.
- Shoe size: No marked effect.
- Ethnicity: No clear effect. Ethnicity is not purely physical. Hispanics, for example, can look black or white or something else. So ethnicity has no straightforward effect on physical description and therefore little direct affect on simple physical attraction.
- Bust, waist and hip measurements: I thought this would be the royal road to finding good-looking models. Not so. Putting in what I regard as great measurements did in fact produce models with great figures, but most were not otherwise good-looking.
See also:
Hey, who put that picture of me on here? 😉
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This was very good. I enjoyed it. This gives me food for thought.
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Seems reasonable…
I usually prefer one of the following:
tall women (5’10” plus): the NCAA/WNBA is a treasure trove of examples. Another example would be Jordin Sparks.
athletic: I never got into the ultra-feminine vibe, so I guess the so-called “tomboy” image suits me. Women that are in fitness competitions or gymnastics are decent examples along with obvious choices such as Venus & Serena Williams.
brawny: it may sound strange to some men, but I like women with muscle. Ms. Olympia is about the best example I can think of (Lenda Murray, Cory Everson, etc.). Boys are usually brought up to pursue “the ideal” woman, but once I got my hands on a few muscle mags, that got squashed for me!
It’s not like I wouldn’t show the woman in the above image out the door, but if one of the 3 “ideals” showed up alongside…well they both come in, I guess! 😉
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Bulankigirl, remember, this are the thoughts of an individual (s) and not the general consensus.
I was half joking when I made the comment above but for the most part, surprise surprise, I do ‘fit’ this mould in terms of the stats. Whether I am deemed physically acceptable to many would still be debatable and arguable.
Tell you what though, I certainly have not had resounding success in terms of attracting mates despite fitting this so called ‘ideal’. I know that some of my mates to varying degree’s fit this mould and I doubt they would describe their ability to attract the opposite sex as totally succesful and without problems.
This is all subjective otherwise in my youth I wouldnt have spent many a night in despair over whether I was ever gonna meet anybody ‘special’ 🙂
Interesting isnt it. My thoughts of a mans physical ideal where women are concerned is leggy, tiny waist, big breasts and long hair…
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Way hey Bulankigirl, you go girl! to have legs up to my armpits 😉
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[…] they are? “Objectively?” So if abagond says that he prefers black women, are we to assume that he’s just…wrong? Because his opinions clash with something […]
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Thank you for posting this, abagond. It’s very, very timely given that a prominent evolutionary psychologist in Psychology Today just took a swipe at black women’s attractiveness. Props for standing up and sharing your views.
http://www.lipstickalley.com/f243/black-women-less-physically-attractive-than-other-women-302896/
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^Concerning the Satoshi K. link^
How the hell do you quantify attractiveness? Either way, bw plz don’t let dumb stuff like that get you down. It’s a mind game. This is the exact reason why I am trying to get black ppl away from the idea that the perceptions of us from others do not matter one bit.
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*away from the idea that perceptions of us from others matter.
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Ouch at that Psychology Today article. That’s hurtful. isht.
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Nobody is perfect but this is very close.
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The fact that a man of Asian heritage says he does not find women of African heritage physically attractive isn’t really all that big of a deal. Everyone has different ideas on who they find attractive.
The fact that he tries to justify his particular preference with pseudo-science is problematic to say the least. But he is an HBD advocate and that is what they do-justify racism with science.
But I don’t know that I would go so far as to say that other’s perceptions of black people don’t matter. They do matter insofar as to who gets hired, paid fairly, promoted etc.
The response is that black people shouldn’t be working for white institutions then but that is an unrealistic expectation. Most black people are not entrepreneurs or captains of industry any more than most white people are.
And moving beyond individual socio-sexual preferences or economic issues, perceptions of black people matter a great deal in the justice system, with interactions with police and so on. It could be a matter of life and death.
So it’s a continuum. I agree there are some things that black people get upset about in terms of white perceptions that are not super important or petty. But there are some white held perceptions about blacks that have very serious, even deadly consequences.
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It’s kind of hard to agree. There are a lot of things that influence a person based on their environment and their selves. For example a hick from Texas and a man from France are going to have a different of beauty. I don’t either standard of beauty.
This is my ideal. I have no idea what race/nationality would you put this with……
1. Hair color: brunette or redhead
2. Height: 5’6-5’10
3. Skin color: medium to dark brownish skin with very dark lips
4. Weight: 55 to 70 kg (121 to 155 lbs)
5. Dress size: 2 to 10
6. Cup size: C-DD
7. Long (don’t about texture) I don’t like bald or really short hair.
8. I love curvy flat bodies. I don’t like the way big butt look at all. Then again I’m not a guy
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Abagond, I think you are right on point with your description of a physically perfect woman! I couldn’t agree with you more and thanks for having good taste 🙂
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@Shady_Grady
I’m really not listening to those excuses anymore. Your missing the point. Asians and Indians work with white institutions all the time. Why can’t blacks be just as industrious as they are at school and work? To accept the White God complex means you believe black folks are infinitely doomed to a lower socio-economic status. No wonder why so many ppl on this site have insecurity and self-hate issues. You spend all damn day begging for the white acceptance your never gonna get. Like Abagond says. Viewing yourself from the white lens…
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@The Cynic
Hear Hear!!! Couldn’t agree more with what you have said. There is still a strong perception pervading that ‘white is right’ no matter how tarnished or tainted it is but if you are black and you dare to have one ‘blemish’, against you – thats it.
Their stereotypical depictions of black women can and does relate to people of most every race – it almost brings me back to the ‘rumour’ that was going about years ago that said ‘black people cant swim cos their bones are too heavy’.
Jeez, wtf is wrong with these people!!!! Psychology today – Psychotic tomorrow….
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@Cynic, you are creating a straw man to argue against because you are assuming that black people who happen not to share your worldview 100% are by DEFINITION accepting a “white god complex” “making excuses”, or “giving up”. That’s silly.
I stand by what I wrote. The world is a lot more nuanced than that. If you look at what I wrote elsewhere on this site’s comments about beauty standards I do indeed think that it is more or less pointless for black women or black men to spend much time complaining that white men or white women don’t put their black counterparts at the top of the attractiveness totem pole.
That is a different, albeit related, problem from whites having negative perceptions of blacks that negatively impact black employment, housing, income and experiences around or within the justice system. It doesn’t make sense to pretend that I shouldn’t be concerned about whites perceptions of blacks in those situations. If I am driving a nicer car than some white cop thinks I should be driving or living in an area he doesn’t think I should be, of course I am going to have to take his perceptions into account whether I want to do so or not. Not doing so could lead to a very negative experience.
Comparing the experiences of East Asians and South Asians to that of Black people is silly in an American context at least because-once again- whites have DIFFERENT PERCEPTIONS of those groups than they have of Blacks. Whites do not automatically vacate neighborhoods when East/South Asians move in; they appear to be more comfortable working with them and so on. This has an impact.
That doesn’t mean that Black people don’t have the duty and responsibility to find ways around, over or through negative perceptions-just as we always have. But pretending that these things don’t have an impact on black achievement is missing the point.
A writer I like made a pretty cogent analysis of this question here
http://darkush.blogspot.com/2010/04/thats-how-we-roll.html
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@Shady_Crazy
You are so right. I should of explicitly asked you about your views on racism in American society b4 I jumped the gun. At the time my thought patterns were going like this:
Ppl who believe White racism is preventing blacks from progressing in American society must believe blacks as a whole are doomed to failure bc white racism will likely never end.
If you read your comment from that context along w/ the “blacks simply aren’t entrepreneurial as opposed to Asians just bc” statement, then it does seem as if you’re “giving up.” Also, when you say something along the lines of the thoughts of a man of Asian descent don’t matter, then go on to talk about the importance of white perceptions, it did sound a bit “white God complex.” Like white ppl’s opinions trump all. Though I was probably reading too much into your statement.
Idk … sometimes it just seems as if black ppl have no game plan. All we do is discuss how much of an inconvenience racism is. I’m starting to believe we really are a failed race. The way things are going i don’t think things are ever going to get any better.
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“Idk … sometimes it just seems as if black ppl have no game plan. All we do is discuss how much of an inconvenience racism is. I’m starting to believe we really are a failed race. The way things are going i don’t think things are ever going to get any better.”
Cynic, I don’t know how you can say that when there has been an unprecedented trail of progress from even before the Civil Rights Movement. The Black American anti–racist movement is THE benchmark for all similar movements around the world. If you go around to other ethnic websites, they are all saying, “Why can’t we get together and make some real progress, like the Blacks have done!”
A few decades ago you literally couldn’t elect a Black man for head dogcatcher in many towns. Today we have elected a Black President of the United States. How is that ‘not having a game plan?’ Yes, we do need to work on a lot of things that are still lagging, but both Blacks and Whites have made tremendous progress since the 1950s.
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Okay, I’m Asian, and I’m totally disgusted by that article. Please know there are Asians who don’t believe in that HBD claptrap.
Hmm. I’m 5’3″ and I weigh 115. My cup size is a D. Believe it or not, some Asians do have boobs. 😛 I wear a size 4. I recently cut my long hair to medium-length. My hair is black and my eyes are brown and my skin is brown. Well, a beige-y, light brown. I think I nearly fit abagond’s ideal. Okay, so maybe not. lol! 😉
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@ leigh
Ha! I think that Abagond must have read your profile before he posted this! Nice with the new pic too 🙂
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@ King:
Thanks! 🙂 I thought I should post a new pic. The previous one just had to go because it was at least a year old.
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@King
I’ve gotten WAYYY off-topic. Ill cont. this in open thread. I’m currently on my cell, nowhere near my laptop, and cannot type an adequate response at the moment. However, for now I can say I am convinced blacks are a failed race. All of this “progress” is a facade. Their is no hope and things are definitely going to get worse in the future.
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Black beauty IS acceptable; it’s acceptable on a sun bed, on the beach and in a tub of sun tan lotion; its acceptable on the butt of Kim Kardashian and in the butt augmentations surgeries across the US; its acceptable in the form of lipstick over the rim of thin white lips, or in the collagen injected into these very same lips; it is acceptable on the face of Angelina Jolie and even on the characterized curves and negroid, facial features of Jessica Rabbit (google her image and see for yourselves!).
Black/dark skin is absolutely acceptable as are African facial features… to white people!
What is rather difficult for whites to accept is themselves. Do you recall the tale of Cinderella and her Ugly Sisters? They treated that poor girl like a house slave. Why did they hate on Cinders so much, eh? And was this hate borne of loathing or of envy?
Here’s something else to consider: if Cinderella was a real-life human being, do u not think she would have developed an inferiority complex as a result of her treatment at the hands of her Ugly Sisters? I think the answer is ‘yes’.
Look, what I’m saying here is that Black women are a serious psychological threat to the racialised beauty order because it is they who possess ALL of the secondary sex signals that affirm woman as opposite to man i.e. emphatically female and sexually alluring.
They can seek to conceal what it is they most desire and envy behind the promotion of Bi-racial sisters as ‘Ideal’ Black women in music and film but this will not stop them attacking and seeking to marginalise that which the most prefer and envy…dark-skinned, negroid-featured, Black females.
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Asian male academics are notorious for dumping, projecting, onto Black women. Remember, they are deemed are the least desirable, least masculine, men in America. They are also, by contrast seen as a model minority and thus ‘honorary whites’.
What better way to reaffirm this status, and also to boost the collective egos of ‘feminine’ Asian men by focusing on the alleged (actually, highly imagined and fictionalised) ‘masculine’ features of Black females.
The simple FACTS are that Black women have the most obvious female characteristics of ALL races of women and Asian woman (with their flat butts, boyish hips and tiny boobs) have the least!
What IS most attractive i.e. feminine about Asian women are (aside from their eyes) their flat, negroid-like noses, and fullish, negroid-like lips! Aside from this they appear to be the 1st choice of repressed homosexuals or maybe even pedophiles.
Anyway, don’t be fooled by this Asian honorary white seeking approval from his white male role models for they are the very ones stealing his women en mass (the same Asian women who refuse to date Asian men!). Yes please, don’t be fooled, sisters!
Just saying.
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Thanks Menelik. I’ll have to remember that when I look in the mirror.
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@ Cynic
Haha! True to your name!
I’ll look in the Open thread
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leigh204,
I’m sorry if I caused you any offence.
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That girl Abagond picked is a real cutie. I pretty much agree with his criteria except I’d go for cup size C at the minimum and preferably D. I’m also much more flexible on skin color, though my preferred skin color on females is caramel/honey/bronze with a nice clean, smooth complexion.
@leigh
Don’t worry about fitting the criteria above, you’re a cutie in your own right.
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tulio,
agreed!
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http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/between-the-lines/201105/beauty-may-be-in-eye-beholder-eyes-see-what-culture-socializes
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our japanese scientist also believes that good looking people are the cleverest
http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/3354410/Study-reveals-good-looking-people-are-also-the-cleverest.html
oh yeah and women control men
http://kateharding.net/2009/08/06/douchehound-of-the-day-satoshi-kanazawa/
now below is the funniest link i have posted
http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/features/3256348/I-cant-help-liking-blondes-its-evolution.html
i think it’s safe to say that this guy is a joke
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@ Leigh204
A picture from this year, huh?
(*whistles*)
Like fine wine baby, like fine wine!
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Here’s a response to the Kanazawa article on the “attractiveness of black women.”
http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/between-the-lines/201105/beauty-may-be-in-eye-beholder-eyes-see-what-culture-socializes
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You guys… he had THREE interviewers of unknown race, ethnicity, age, gender, origin, etc. rate an unknown amount of people from 4 diff. races. This guy is BS. A f*ckin joke. Nv studied attraction in depth, but I remember my old psych prof specifically stating attractiveness is culturally defined. Hopefully we can come off the topic of this dude.
I mentioned a little while ago that while I didn’t feel that the television, music, and movies were as racist as some make them seem, the news media in this country is extremely racist, often in the most subtle ways. In the last 2 yrs they have revved up their attack on bw in so many diff. ways. Am I the only person noticing this? A year ago I became extremely conspiratorial over the amount of bw single reports alone…
Anyways, I’m too lazy to use the model mayhem criteria, but I’ll try my best to define my personal physically perfect woman. I like all different types of looks, but I would be lying if I said certain features didn’t stand out to me more
1)Hair-I’m a sucker for dark, thick, long hair(btwn shoulder & armpit). And no. Hair texture doesn’t matter.
2)I love caramel & chocolate tones. Think Gabriel Union to Meagan Good. I have no idea why…
3)Weight… as long as the stomach is flat, I’m good
4)Cup size-A nice C cup
5)Height-Anything shorter than me
6)Body-I love curves. Especial a big ass 😛
7)Face-idk… there is so much variation out there. I guess high chick bones and def nice full lips!
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Black women I think are really beautiful
-Nice Skin
-Nice Eyes
-Nice Hair
http://www.youtube.com/user/chescaleigh?blend=1&ob=5#p/u/13/URRNuzuh_Nc
http://www.youtube.com/user/FusionofCultures?blend=7&ob=5#p/u/5/X4YUsHCEpU8
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Oops. better links
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Menelik
So, you do know that you’ve just erased any and all credibility you might have had, right?
I didn’t know there were so many black “race realists” out there. I think you guys should get together with the white HBDR’s and get your joint separatist movement going. The irony of course is how much you actually have in common with each other.
Doesn’t it bother you to be a walking contradiction? To embody everything you say you loathe? It would me.
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TBH, I really think that the Hollywood standard up until the last 10 years or so was just fuc*ing BORING! That’s always been my main problem with it. Now we’re starting to see some alternatives to the light skinned, blond, blue-eyed model creep in to the mainstream finally. Keep it coming I say!
No race has a monopoly on beauty. The beauty *gene has been carried throughout all of humanity, no one race has more of it than any other. (same with the ugly gene 😉 It’s called variety people, embrace it. learn to see and appreciate things that are maybe a little different than what you are used to. (That is always a good idea not just when it comes to female attractiveness BTW)
*I know there isn’t a literal “beauty gene”
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Also, anyone who claims that their personal preferences are some kind of universal truth, or that this or that race possesses the “real standard”, or that this or that race is jealous or this or that other race, is a lunatic. Straight up.
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Beauty isnt totally subjective. However variations like light skin vs. dark skin, plump vs. thin, hair color, eye color, cheek bones ect are highly subjective. But there is objective criteria
Object Criteria:
-clear skin
-lustrous hair
– WHR around .7
-clear eyes
-facial symmetry
-body symmetry
-full lips
-facial femininity
None of the objective criteria has a racial component to it
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facial symmetry is one of those scientific beauty myths. most people do not have symmetrical faces, or bodies in fact! and you will find that some of the most beautiful people are not entirely symmetrical in their facial features.
and i’m not sure about the full lips one either. i think there are some men out there (particularly asians) who prefer small lips over full.
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It’s sheer hypocrisy for a lot of American black men especially to criticize this Kanazawa when so many Black men in this country have said pretty much the same. Some of these same black men are always online talking about how mannish and unattractive Black women are or about how black women aren’t submissive like other women and so on. None of the American black men at my school have black girlfriends.
Not so much other black men, but a lot of American black men prove they believe what this guy says by who they pick to be their girlfriends and wives, especially when these guys have money and some influence. When a lot of American black men can get their pick of women, they pick white women and other women who look more white. You can make a list of them who do that and it will be most of them.
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Jorbia, American Black men are not some kind of club who meet every Thursday (in an abandoned barber shop) to vote on what WE will do.
American Black men are not collectively responsible for the actions of other American Black men. We are individuals, and the vast majority of us marry Black women. We cannot be held responsible for every Youtube imbecile who makes a video and the likes of O.J. Simpson.
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Most people dont have symmetrical faces and most people arent truly “beautiful”
Also that list isnt the end all be all. If someone doesnt have a perfectly symmetrical face or full lips it wont make them automatically ugly. However the people who are deemed the most attractive tend to have those features.
For the most part men arent sweating women with lopsided faces. Im just saying
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I like this girl, her voice is a bit squeaky but she’s cute
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@ King re–
American Black men are not some kind of club who meet every Thursday (in an abandoned barber shop) to vote on what WE will do. American Black men are not collectively responsible for the actions of other American Black men.
That’s convenient, but that does not work. Kanazawa is only ONE Japanese male social scientist yet look at the damage he has caused.
All white men don’t do oppressive things to black people, yet a lot of black people sure do look at all white people as racists. My point is that it doesn’t take every single American black man to say ugly things about black women to convince people that American black men don’t think much of their women.
Those black men are not just on Youtube. They’re in all kinds of media these days saying they don’t want a black woman and praising other women. They prove how they feel with their actions when they can pick the woman they want.
Besides, not that many American black men are even married to anybody.
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jorbia,
so nobody can say anything negative about BW or else they are doing “damage”
Well you better toughen up because people will always have something to say about others.
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With that stupid man you can just look at him and tell he is a fool. I haven’t read anything of his because if I do I think my intelligence may decrease.
I honestly come to a point where I don’t give two 2’s. Looking at the titles of his “studies” you know this dude is an ugly deluded white worshipping fool who needs to worship white people and keep Black women off his lips.
Seriously “I can’t help liking blondes it’s evolution” lol and why pretty people are so cleaver. Well if that is true he must be real stupid.
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@ Jorbia
” Kanazawa is only ONE Japanese male social scientist yet look at the damage he has caused.”
That is why we are discussing Kanazawa, and not the “hypocritical and duplicitous” Japanese people.
“All white men don’t do oppressive things to black people, yet a lot of black people sure do look at all white people as racists.”
Yeah, and they would be wrong, wouldn’t they?
“Those black men are not just on Youtube. They’re in all kinds of media these days saying they don’t want a black woman and praising other women.”
Yes, and they are all fools! But that still doesn’t give you the right to try and extend their foolhardiness to every Black man on the face of the earth.
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lol I missed this kind of posts. Not sure why.
As for the weight: why did you think it would attract criticism? Because you like “chubby” girls? Or what?
Knowing you, it surprised me body shape didn’t prove to be important. Then again, those are models; they usually don’t have hourglass figures, right?
PS-Is there a similar website to objectify men? Just asking…
Well, I still know my preferences: great hair, deep voice, 5’10” to 6’4″, dark eyes, not particularly muscular. Race or ethnicity unimportant.
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I didn’t even read that article because it’s bs. I know for a fact that it’s all untrue. Most of these black are single and miserable/unattractive articles are way overblown. New flash, non-black women have the same body issuses/dating problems. They just want to make it seem that only bw can through this to try to teat us down. I had to stop looking at media and beauty standards because I don’t fit neither black or white beauty. I have more austronesian features than anything and they’re aren’t alot of people in America that descent.I f I did, I would hate myself. I’ve lost of to bw dark as Alec Wek to wm. Most men in general, don’t like Paris Hilton. Don’t take the media seriously. I think alot of bw and wm are attractive and some are ugly. It varies based on the person. For example, I myself never found bm to be attractive. It’s more of the fact, we don’t share the same culture and don’t like manly man. Big butts and thin hair are ugly to me.
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“Yeah, and they would be wrong, wouldn’t they”
No King, if a lot of people do something that makes it automatically the right thing to do.
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@Y re–
jorbia,
so nobody can say anything negative about BW or else they are doing “damage”
Well you better toughen up because people will always have something to say about others.
I don’t think that telling black women to get tough is the solution. It doesn’t work. They just pretend to be tough and hard and then a lot of even black men call them mannish and aggressive. I think this is exactly the problem. Black women get insulted and rejected all the time by their own men and pretend that it doesn’t matter but that stuff hurts some of the women like hell. Not all, but some.
So when this “scientist” comes along and says the same thing, it causes the pain to flare up again. If he didn’t cause hurt or damage, then why is this being discussed on so many of the sites where blacks congregate? Is it an insult or not? If not, then what’s the fuss? Pretending that he didn’t cause damage doesn’t change anything. If American black women got enough love from their own men, this wouldn’t even matter to them, but we know that’s not the case.
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@King re:
Yes, and they are all fools! But that still doesn’t give you the right to try and extend their foolhardiness to every Black man on the face of the earth.
You’re reaching now. Go back and read what I said. Not once did I say “every Black man.” So that’s a strawman.
There is wholesale rejection of black American women by most of the richest, most powerful and influential American black men, and we can see that by who they choose as girlfriends and wives. Check the list. This trickles down to the regular joe American black man.
Do you think that other men in other groups don’t see that and wonder about it. That sends a very strong message that American black men don’t think much of their women. So, of course, other men feel they can say anything they want.
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@ Jorbia
Yeah, you’re right, I was reaching a bit.
“There is wholesale rejection of black American women by most of the richest, most powerful and influential American black men”
I’d say you’d have to qualify that by saying, the most VISIBLE rich, and powerful Black American men. What you’re really talking about is mostly Athletes and a few Black celebrities.
“Do you think that other men in other groups don’t see that and wonder about it. That sends a very strong message that American black men don’t think much of their women.”
They do, but it’s not specific to Blacks. Unfortunately, it just adds to the minority “White beauty worship” that most minority groups have had trouble with.
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jorbia:
Blackwomen are perfect just the way they are, I wouldn’t change anything about them. Everybody wants to control the blackwoman’s mind and body, which is the root of the problem. Don’t get distracted with all of the bs that you see in mainstream media, It’s a waste of time and energy. Sistas, and their needs and wants should be your top priority as a sincere blackman. I stopped caring about the Taye Diggs” of the world a long time ago. I have nothing in common with them, and vice-versa. We’re never gonna see eye to eye as it relates to loyalty to blackwomen, Never! That train has already left the station, and the damage has already been done. Real Talk! The current generation of young black males are a joke to me, Honestly! If whitewomen and asian women want their punk asses, more power to them. Blackwomen have paid a heavy price for loving a bunch of self-hating blackmen already…all of the crime and violence, fatherless homes, poverty, political apathy, hiv/aids, and so forth. The greatest enemy of righteous black people on this planet are self-hating blackmen…not whitemen, not asian men, not white serial-killers, not islamic terrorists, etc. Jorbia, blackness is not a game to be played with, and other like-minded brothas shouldn’t view it as a game either!!!
Tyrone
Star Aquarius
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Bulanikgirl,
Thank you, Mira.
? What did I say?
And don’t forget the nose, I like to see a cute nose on a guy. I like somewhat thick eyebrows. Oh, yes, and 6 to 7 inches… never mind. <- Oh, I could do worse objectification than this, trust me.
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Jorbia,
Im talking about getting “mentally tough” and not letting giving too much traction to nay-sayers. BW are not seen as “mannish” and “aggressive” because we ignore nay-sayers. Its the opposite. If anything being overly defensive because some guy wrote a unscientific blog about BW being the least attractive works against BW not in favor of us..
Nobody can make you feel inferior without your permission.
As far as BM not liking BW. I dont care one way or another. Why pay attention to people that have made it clear you are worth anything to them? Not to say BM as a group feel this way but for the ones that do why should it matter?
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@King re–
I’d say you’d have to qualify that by saying, the most VISIBLE rich, and powerful Black American men. What you’re really talking about is mostly Athletes and a few Black celebrities.
Who exactly are these UN-visible rich, powerful, influential American black men with black girlfriend or wives? They don’t pop up on the radar anywhere or rarely? How many of them are there? Where’s the list?
It doesn’t matter what their profession is. The choices of the rich and most influential men of any group carry a lot of weight because they’re the ones who can pick and choose the woman they want. They have money and power. They also have a lot of influence with the average joe black man. The UNvisible black men don’t, if they even exist.
When men in other groups see black men throwing their women under the bus, it won’t be long before other men and women start throwing them there too.
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What I like in men:
Height: The taller the better, ideally 6′ 3”
Hair: Dark brown or Black…dont care much for blond hair but I know a few cute blonds, however the blond is on the darker end of the spectrum
Eye:all colors are nice but I love Blue(especially when paired with dark hair)
Large eyes and almond shaped are preferred
Skin: Pale, ethnicity doesn’t matter too much but I like men lighter than myself. Not hard to do because Im dark.
Build: Athletic, not too muscular and not scrawny. Broad Shoulders are a must
Lips: full lips, not too big and not small.
I like facial hair as well I like a little 5-o-clock shadow action. I dont want a Santa Claus
I also like men with large hands an feet. I have large feet and longish fingers/hands for a woman so I have a complex about being with a man with small feet and hands. Its not a deal breaker but its preferred
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Who exactly are these UN-visible rich, powerful, influential American black men with black girlfriend or wives?
http://www.verysmartbrothas.com/but-when-he-gets-on-hell-leave-your-ass-for-a-white-girl-or-not/
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As far as facial features it doesnt matter but I like medium features with a bend towards sharper noses. As long as the features are harmonious with the entire face its all good.
I prefer square or long faces to round ones.
These are just *my* preferences in men. I have plenty of friends that are completely put off by what I find the most attractive.
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I’d say you’d have to qualify that by saying, the most VISIBLE rich, and powerful Black American men. What you’re really talking about is mostly Athletes and a few Black celebrities.
Jorbia ignore King. Not worth the effort. He is minimizing what is actually going on in America between black men and women. Your points are extremely valid. Black men do send out messages to the world that when you have made it a black woman is not good enough. Anyone who says that this is not true is lying!
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@Y re–
As far as BM not liking BW. I dont care one way or another. Why pay attention to people that have made it clear you are worth anything to them? Not to say BM as a group feel this way but for the ones that do why should it matter?
I know what you’re saying but that won’t work, pretending that it doesn’t matter. If a sadist keeps punching you and you keep standing there pretending that it’s not hurting, they will keep pounding you because they ENJOY pounding you. They’re happy that you can take it.
I think American black women need to let it be known that ALL of these men are hurting them, killing them softly, instead of trying to act hard. The women really need to come up with lots of ways to retaliate. A sadist is never going to leave you alone. They will only increase in number because there are a lot of people out there who want to punch somebody. Who better to punch then somebody who pretends not to feel it?
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Don Lemon (even though he is gay) could get it, just sayin
George Clooney
Gerard Pique-Spanish soccer player
TJ Holmes
Xabi Alonso-he started the beard fetish
The guy that played Alcide Herveaux on True Blood
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Bulanikgirl,
You are speaking my language! No that I think of it I do like longish noses, within the bounds of reason though…I dont like Pinocchio, lol
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@ Tara
See The Cynics links if you are interested in actual facts on the issue.
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Height: 5’7
Build: anorexic from the waist down!
Hair: Locks to my mid back, brown with natural red highlights.
Eye colour: brown
Weight: just right, hahahaha! Pass the burgers!
Bust: double H, I sh*t you not! (try buying a bra off the rack!)
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I have to admit, there is some validity in the stereotypes about bw that keep a large percentage of them out of my personal dating pool. I don’t think their is anything inherently wrong with bw, nor do I agree with the notion that they are objectively unattractive based on their physical features. I do believe a lot of American bw do not manage their looks as well as other groups of women.
Black guys also have a lot of problems(education, unemployment, criminal records). However, I feel most bw actually like thugs/deadbeats/losers.
I can admit these things. I think that is a problem with a lot of people. We like to sweep problems underneath the rug and pretend as if they are not their. Once we admit everything is not quite right(on both sides) then the process of healing can begin.
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“I feel most bw actually like thugs/deadbeats/losers.”
Not in my neighborhood!
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The Cynic,
Ok so what are these problems, from your POV?
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@King
Not in my neighborhood!
This is great. I think women tend to grow out of the “bad boy” phase as they get older. I can’t say I am lying about what happens in my neck of the woods though. Seen it too many times to ignore it.
B4 anybody claims I’m jealous, I assure I’m not. Women tend to like athletes (football/soccer/basketball). I have no problem w/ that. They’re generally tall, muscular, and more masculine than ur avg guy. Traits women naturally seem to like. In fact, my cuz is engaged to a former college football player. I co-sign their wedding. Dude seems honest & hard working. I couldn’t imagine him ditching his kids. He has qualities I welcome into my family. Complete opposite from thugs/deadbeats who lower the bar and bring drama to whoever they touch
@Y
Problems from who? Bw, bm, or the black community in general?
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@ Menelik Charles
Eh? I’ll live. 🙂
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@tulio:
@Franklin:
Hehe. Thanks you two! 😀
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@Cynic–
However, I feel most bw actually like thugs/deadbeats/losers.
I’ve never met a black woman who liked or associated with “thugs/deadbeats/losers.”
Maybe this is why most black women don’t try to have this discussion. This is always the first accusation and the discussion goes downhill from there.
I think some of you guys have been rejected by a woman who wanted a thug and you generalize from that point on. You need to mix with a better sort of women.
Also, I find that many times, black men become disingenuous when trying to talk this out. For ex. in the Youtube above, the opening pic was an athlete standing with a black woman who has a predominance of negroid looks. Am I supposed to believe that the typical rich black man athlete has a wife who looks like her?
Or instead, has the typical black girlfriend or wife been selected for her less negroid features when these guys do choose a black woman?
It really annoys me that when black men do admit that they prefer less negroid features, they will then defend this selection by saying that light skinned black women with more Euro features need love too.
If I were to participate in an honest discussion about any part of this, it would have to be an actual discussion where my intelligence is not insulted. Most intelligent black women don’t like to play the dummy role any more.
If 90% of black male athletes have black wives, I want to see the list. But I wasn’t even referring much to athletes when I said that rich or influential black men choose white wives, girlfriends, or women who look more white. There’s a broad array of influential American black men these days. Think about black man doctors, lawyers, accountants, high paid managers and other executives, college professors, and so on.
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Im sure yall have seen the article about black women not being physically attractive. ***rollingeyes****
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@ Cynic
You know some of this really has to do with
1) where you live
2) how old you are
I know where I could go if i wanted to find the thug loving idea that you’re talking about, but I don’t really hang out over there. In fact, I’d have to drive for half an hour.
I think you have to go back to what we were saying some time ago about the mindset divisions within Black society.
-Ghetto mindset
-Pluralistic mindset
That makes a night and day difference in everything that you were saying asbove.
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scratch…..i wasnt paying attention.
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@Jorbia
I’ve never met a black man who only dates/married/prefers
“white women and other women who look more white”
Maybe this is why most black men don’t try to have this discussion. This is always the first accusation and the discussion goes downhill from there.
I think some of you girls have been rejected by a man who wanted a damn near white chick and you generalize from that point on. You need to mix with a better sort of men.
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The Cynic,
All of it. What “issues” do you think are being swept under the rug?
****We should probably move this discussion to the open thread*****
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@King
“I think you have to go back to what we were saying some time ago about the mindset divisions within Black society.
-Ghetto mindset
-Pluralistic mindset
That makes a night and day difference in everything that you were saying above.”
No, I see this with the even the educated & decent black chicks. Just think Lauren London, Beyonce…
This type of mindset is not as rare as you guys would like it to be.
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@ Jorbia
I’m not saying that this in not a problem at all, but we’ve just been trying to say that it’s not nearly as bad as the media often portrays it.
But if you read your last post, what you are presenting is the essence of an irrefutable mindset.
What you are saying is that YOU KNOW what’s going on, and anyone who shows you pictures, posts statistics, or presents opposing arguments, is being dishonest, and therefore, insulting to your intelligence.
You are so convinced that you are 100% correct, in your own views, that it annoys you when anyone tries to bring information to the table that disagrees with your holy beliefs.
In order to have a meaningful discussion you must at least be willing to entertain the possibility that you may be the one who has gotten it wrong.
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@ Cynic
You mean that they like thugs? JZ might have been a thug a long time ago, he certainly hasn’t been one in a long time now.
I doubt if Beyonce would be with him if he wasn’t a millionaire music mogul.
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@King
What I was saying is that I have seen that type of thing w/ regular ass broke hood dudes. I wasn’t attempting to analyze Beyonce’s specific situation. I used celebrities as a reference bc everybody knows them. I was trying to help you imagine what I have seen over and over again in a non-celebrity atmosphere.
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@Cynic re–
I think some of you girls have been rejected by a man who wanted a damn near white chick and you generalize from that point on. You need to mix with a better sort of men,
I am what you call “a damn near white chick.” I talked about that months ago. I certainly know what a lot of American black men like about a woman who looks like me because the intelligent ones I meet give me “compliments” me on my complexion and hair.
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@King re–
What you are saying is that YOU KNOW what’s going on, and anyone who shows you pictures, posts statistics, or presents opposing arguments, is being dishonest, and therefore, insulting to your intelligence.
You are so convinced that you are 100% correct, in your own views, that it annoys you when anyone tries to bring information to the table that disagrees with your holy beliefs.
There you go again with the strawman of 100%. You don’t know whether I’m convinced that I’m 100% correct.
I asked for proof that most and I mean most rich or influential American black men don’t choose white women or women who look white and your response was a statement from you that most UNvisible rich and influential black men are married to black women.
Is your statement “proof”?
Do you believe that someone should just take your word as the “truth”? Well, I guess you do.
Then someone put up a YOUTUBE video as proof that 90% of rich black athletes are married to black women. Anyone can make a video like that saying ANYTHING. Are YT videos the Gospel?
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Did anybody notice Jorbia’s red herring? You see how I made a comment about completely controllable factors that may hurt bw in dating (hair/weight management,attitudes etc) and she turns the conversation into a “all black men hate themselves” argument?
Stop using this light skin good hair crutch. These conversations about legitimate issues ALWAYS get deflected by bringing up LSGH. Its called blame shifting. Sweep the root of the problem under the table, so we dont have to admit our flaws.
Reminds me that clip w/ Sherri Shepard on The View where she was justifying Jill Scott’s comments about getting upset when she sees successful bm w/ ww. Talking about putting ww on a pedestal and skin color.It was so ironic considering how Sherri was overweight & weaved out sitting inbetween two skinny white ladies(host & greys anatomy lady). If anything SHE was putting we on a pedestal!
@Y
That mentality is the main issue with the BC. We get so afraid of admitting the root causes of our problems. We blame shift while ignoring the root
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@Cynic re–
Did anybody notice Jorbia’s red herring? You see how I made a comment about completely controllable factors that may hurt bw in dating (hair/weight management,attitudes etc) and she turns the conversation into a “all black men hate themselves” argument?
I’m glad everyone can read all of our comments.
I scrolled up and you said this:
I have to admit, there is some validity in the stereotypes about bw that keep a large percentage of them out of my personal dating pool. I don’t think their is anything inherently wrong with bw, nor do I agree with the notion that they are objectively unattractive based on their physical features. I do believe a lot of American bw do not manage their looks as well as other groups of women.
You were talking about your personal preferences. If you want to talk about something specific, why don’t you bring it up and those black women who want to discuss it can do so. I don’t have hair, weight, or attitude concerns and neither am I a thuglover, babymama, or goldigger, which are other common accusations hurled at American black women. I know black women who are just fine in these departments and they are still overlooked by black men on my campus. This is why some black women consider these accusations to be bogus.
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@Jorbia
A lot of women are blind to their problems. Stereotypical African features are not the main reason black women have a high single & low IR marriage rate. Your’e crazy if you think that
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@ The Cynic
I totally agree!
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Oy vay;
You can not capture beauty in bottle, label it and distribute it like a cheap beer. Beauty is always in the eye of the beholder and comes in infinite variety. While the woman in the picture at the begining post is indeed attractive there are litterally thousands (tens mayabe hundreds of thousands) of women of every color that are stunningly beautiful.
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http://www.racialicious.com/2011/05/17/how-to-debunk-pseudo-science-articles-about-race-in-five-easy-steps/
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Bro, you seriously gotta see this sister, Miss Anowa, the “Nigerian Powerhouse”:
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@ Bulanikgirl,
with all due respect, I’ve read what it is you prefer in men and not once did I intervene to question or demean your (I suspect) racial or aesthetic preference!
Asking me, therefore, what I find attractive in a woman and then proceeding to (very subtly) racially and physically disrespect my choice prior to me answering your question is beyond insulting and disrespectful!
Just saying.
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I always knew that appearences are important in american culture, that the “looking good” is in the very center of the social culture over there, but this is funny.
As an older guy, not american granted, I have met, dated, have had sex with all kinds of women in my life, and not one has been ugly or something of that sort. Granted, no american black women, but few others anyway.
Biggest was a very big woman, plus 100kg, and smallest was a real willow, 52kg. Tallest was a model 183cm, and shortest 152cm. Few have been blondes, natural or fake, one red hair, brunettes and darker hairs too.
Some have had perky young boobs, some saggy ones, some of mothers who have breastfed their kids. All of them have felt nice and been pleasure to meet. All of those have also given the pleasure for those women.
Some have had fatless tummies, like one woman athlete who was in our national team in judo. Some have had normal bellies, some bigger bellies, but they all felt nice and I liked them all. Big butts, small butts, no butts, what ever. I have almost all kinds.
The age range has been between 18 till 55. Younger ones were met when I was young also, except one 21 yrs old woman few years ago. Some of the younger ones were really strickt and hibited, some of the older ones were wild and loose. The age really does not matter in that either.
One was very poor uneducated woman, one was at the time the richest heiress in our country (owned couple buildings smack in the center of Helsinki). It made no difference to me. I’m not dating purse or bank account.
I guess what I am trying to say, these measurements and statistics, researches and other dodoos like these, make no difference at all. When the Thing hits you, you see the beauty of a woman, no matter what color, shape or size she is. If you fall in love, she can be eight legged, six eyed space monster and the most beautiful thing you ever seen.
Ladies, you are just fine as you are. Belive me. If you are in doubt, go to any bar, disco or restaurant, put yourselves out there, and I bet there will be men trying to get you. All this talk about ideals and averages, statistical beauty and such, is a whole lotta nonsense.
And black women, you are very beautiful.
PS. And Leigh204, very beautiful too.
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Interesting post….Maybe I should write my own on The physically perfect man.
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Also intelligence is a huge turn on for me. I’ll pick a short, smart guy over a tall, big-bodied idiot.
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Y,
Well, that goes without saying. But short guys were never interested in me. (Strangely enough, since I’m 5’2″).
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Mira,
Really? lucky you! Im a shorty too, only 5’3″. The guys that are interested in me are normal height, about 5’10 to 6’…but man those giants really get me pumped. Just before school let out I meet a guy who was 6’4″ and really clever, jackpot!!
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Well, not giants. Average height and tall. But no short guys for some reason. I prefer average height, 5’11” to 6″.
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I am sorry I do not have much to share regarding the actual article at the moment, for one thing stood out to me when reading through the comments:
Asian women are the least feminine and appear to be the first choice for repressed homosexuals and maybe paedophiles? Wow. For someone who is angered by the racism of Satoshi Kanazawa calling Black women ugly and unfeminine, this seems incredibly hypocritical. I do not understand how anyone can think that attacking another racialised group and flinging about racist stereotypes is an appropriate response to racism against Black women. It saddens me to find it here on this site. Especially when it seems most people have ignored it or apparently find nothing wrong with it.
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“Especially when it seems most people have ignored it or apparently find nothing wrong with it.”
yeah, I tried. Apparently it’s only white trolls that get fed around here 🙂
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@ Jas0nburns
Menelik Charles has been repeating the same brand of pro Black racism for so long that I’ve gotten tired of arguing with him. The same is true (to some degree) of Tyrone.
However, The Cynic and I were just busting some new Black poster’s chops about running down the looks of White women as some kind of response to anti-Black racism.
I can’t remember which thread that was on…
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Yeah, it depends on who he’s talking to. Sometimes yes, and sometimes he doesn’t.
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@
Asian women are the least feminine and appear to be the first choice for repressed homosexuals and maybe paedophiles?
This is really terrible! Really terrible!
Instead of calling white men who like Asian women perverts, it would really pay off to encourage more American black women to openly show white men that they like them. There are white men in my campus discussion groups who are surprised that I like white men. The next thing they ask me is where I’m from.
When white men find out you like them, they start wanting to be around that kind of woman more, and they ask her out.
American black women can get respectful love from a lot of white men if they let white men know they like them. I’m a black woman and white guys don’t try to disrespect me. I stay away from all kinds of scummy men. White, black or other.
The only black women on my campus who get asked out are the ones like me who go out with white men. Sure, I get the “sellout” comments from the black male janitorial workers (who I’m not interested in anyway) sometimes, but I don’t care. I’m not going to sit around all the time and not have a social life just to make them happy.
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@ Jorbia
Yeah, the general rap on Black women among White men seems to be that they aren’t into White guys because of latents and unresolved slavery Issues, and because of the Black male sexual mythology.
Of course, all White guys aren’t into Black girls and vice versa, but even when they are, there are often historical barriers to overcome before anything can even get started.
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@ King–
Yeah, the general rap on Black women among White men seems to be that they aren’t into White guys because of latents and unresolved slavery Issues, and because of the Black male sexual mythology.
Of course, all White guys aren’t into Black girls and vice versa, but even when they are, there are often historical barriers to overcome before anything can even get started.
Yes, there are American black women on my campus who pout about the black men there who only date white women.
These are issues that American black women can control. They need to get help to get past their unresolved issues and myths. They can’t change their complexions or their hair, but they can get help with these issues. Besides, a lot of white men really like darker complexions and think our curly hair and less-keen features are exotic.
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Meh… I’ve called out anti-white/semitic comments on here b4
Personally, I think some of the non-white racist commenters on here like Tyrone are hilarious. Don’t agree with 85% of what he says, but… idk… guess I just have a weird sense of humor. Even some Stormfront threads I’ve accidentally come across have had me in laughter.
I felt no need to call out that Asian pedo comment bc sum1 already handled it.
*shrugs*
I see so much racist sh*t on the internet I get used to it. Thinking back, I wasted time responding to that white women crow’s feet troll. You can’t expect ppl to waste all of their time on every little racist thing that happens over the web.
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Hello everybody. Long time no see (or read or hear………whatever)
The physically perfect woman huh! God, that’s subjective.
Here’s mine.
Height: I’m not too bothered about it. I’m not a woman. Hell, I have a thing for chicks taller then me…….. but not too tall (I’m 5’10”)
Weight: In proportion to height. So long as the woman isn’t too fat or too skinny (or too muscley……. *vomit*)
Cup size: D
Dress size: in proportion to height and weight.
Hair length: Long and Thick. Short hair on a chick looks weird to me.
Hair colour: Black. The darker the better
Eye colour: Brown. However, not really all that bothered
Skin colour: Depends on the race of the woman (Black women are at the top of my totem pole). I like my white and east asian girls, tanned. I like my black and south asian girls, caramel to chocolate skinned!
Body Shape: Hourglass
Legs: Long and with thick thighs (of course it has to be proportioned)
Voice: I like a sexy voice but that’s hard to define. Probably Cree Summers’ sultry voice. Also the spanish language is so hot! Also I like the american south accent! Damn I’m weird!
That’s it really.
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Hmm. Perfect man (to me):
Height: I’m 5’10” and prefer my height or taller. I’ve dated shorter guys, but hey, you asked for “perfect” so, 6’2″+
Weight: Proportional.
Size: in proportion to height and weight.
Hair length: Don’t care. NO MULLETS. 😀 And no comb-overs. If you’re bald, be bald, dude.
Hair colour: Doesn’t matter, but light eyelashes freak me out.
Facial hair: No thanks. SCRATCHY when making out. 😀
Eye colour: Don’t care.
Skin colour: Doesn’t matter.
Body Shape: Muscular but not crazy Arnold muscular. I’d say probably like Elliot on L&O SVU. Good arm definition.
Voice: Not whiny. GTFO Ray Romano.
Knows how to dress (but not upstaging me, obviously).
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Voice: Not whiny. GTFO Ray Romano.
lol
I like men with deep voices. I think it’s one of the first thing I notice about a man, after the hair.
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@Mira:
I hear you. I like a man with a deep voice as long as he doesn’t sound like Lurch from The Addams Family. lol!
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“Who exactly are these UN-visible rich, powerful, influential American black men with black girlfriend or wives? They don’t pop up on the radar anywhere or rarely? How many of them are there? Where’s the list?
It doesn’t matter what their profession is. The choices of the rich and most influential men of any group carry a lot of weight because they’re the ones who can pick and choose the woman they want. They have money and power. They also have a lot of influence with the average joe black man. The UNvisible black men don’t, if they even exist.”
@Jorbia , you made the assertion. You need to back it up. Who are the black men with white wives that trouble you so? Name some names.
It’s been repeated over and over again whenever these sorts of discussions get going but facts don’t change no matter how much we don’t like them. The overwhelming majority of black men who get married do so with black women.
Roughly 7% of married black men were married to white women as of 2009. Only 0.7% of married white women are married to black men. That means out of every 1000 married white women, 993 decided for some reason NOT to marry a black man. In fact whites in general and white women in particular had the LOWEST rate of out marriage of the major racial designations in America. In part that is because they are still the largest group but it is also because contrary to what some might think whites have preferences just like blacks do.
So this constant complaint that black men are en masse running off to marry white women and leaving black women high and dry isn’t true.
People point to athletes. Show me a study or survey that shows that MOST black athletes are married to non-black women. Those who make the assumption ought to be able to back it up. For every black athlete who married a woman that wasn’t black I can think of eight or nine that married a black woman. Evidently those marriages didn’t make the radar. They don’t titillate our transgressive or political natures.
Again, if you’ve got some facts that show different, let’s have them. Otherwise I think you should refrain from making blanket statements about black men and who they are marrying.
But let’s get serious here. The black (wo)men that complain and moan about any black (wo)man marrying/dating/fornicating outside the group NEVER seem to have QUITE the same level of vitriol when the person doing it shares their gender. This is hypocrisy no matter which gender is doing it. I understand it. It’s human nature to want to expand your gender’s horizons while telling the opposite gender THEY need to remain “loyal”. But it is BS.
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@Shady Grady–
Jorbia , you made the assertion. You need to back it up. Who are the black men with white wives that trouble you so? Name some names.
You claim that I’m”troubled” about who black men date? I’m not that type. I like and go out with men of all groups when they ask me out and when they respect me.
This is the comment I made above.
Jorbia said:
Not so much other black men, but a lot of American black men prove they believe what this guy says by who they pick to be their girlfriends and wives, especially when these guys have money and some influence. When a lot of American black men can get their pick of women, they pick white women and other women who look more white. You can make a list of them who do that and it will be most of them.
If you don’t accept this, then it’s up to you to prove me wrong if you want. I don’t focus on athletes, as I stated.
In the year 2008, 22% of black men married women who aren’t black according to a highly regarded research organization. You can try to prove them wrong if you want. It didn’t say that all of these women were white. So you’re the one who’s focusing on white women.
But let’s get serious here. The black (wo)men that complain and moan about any black (wo)man marrying/dating/fornicating outside the group NEVER seem to have QUITE the same level of vitriol when the person doing it shares their gender. This is hypocrisy no matter which gender is doing it.
This might be because it’s American black women who have a severe shortage of American black men who are on their level to marry. Their problem is that they want to marry black men who don’t want to marry them because black men are not in the habit of marrying. This is the crux of it.
Black men don’t face this shortage in marriage mates. Most black men are not marrying. About 30% or so are married.
This is why black women don’t look at the two situations the same. If a black woman marries a white man, some black women feel that she’s found a man who loved her enough to marry her. That gives them hope.
The issue is the lopsided numbers of American black women who are interested in dating out compared to the number of black men who date out. That is changing everyday, but as King said above, some American black women still have unresolved issues with slavery and don’t date white men for that reason and because of silly myths. This is all super silly especially when so many American black men have quickly resolved whatever issues they had with slavery, Jim Crow and institutional racism and date and marry out in a heartbeat. Everybody sees that.
So it is up to American black women to get help for their unresolved issues and for those myths and stop sitting in dorm rooms or at home while the rest of us are out having fun. If not, then they’ll not marry.
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“If you don’t accept this, then it’s up to you to prove me wrong if you want. I don’t focus on athletes, as I stated.”
That’s NOT the way debate and discussion works. You made an assertion. You need to back it up. You DID mention black athletes. Then when called on that you switched to black “influential” men. Provide proof! Give us some FACTS that show that the typical black athlete or black influential man is married to a white woman or other non-black woman. You can’t do it because it’s not true.
The 22% of black marrying number in 2008 is from the Pew Research Center Study and is only a snap shot. The total numbers of all black men currently married from the link I posted earlier shows that 87% of married black men are married to black women. Unsurprisingly no one is more likely to marry black women than black men.
“This might be because it’s American black women who have a severe shortage of American black men who are on their level to marry.”
Ah yes, the old “on their level” meme. Well it’s just like a job interview. If I demand $250K/yr for my next job but don’t have the experience or skills to justify that salary eventually I’m going to realize that I can’t make those demands and will need to recalibrate my expectations. Or I can just sit there and complain forever about how companies don’t recognize my genius. Which stance is more productive?
Similarly in my experience many women complaining they can’t find a man “on their level” aren’t necessarily on the level they think they are. They may need to readjust their expectations and do some internal checking.
“Black men don’t face this shortage in marriage mates.”
Again, justification for me but not for thee. Typical. Completely human but oh so typical. Black men and black women have similar rates of “never been married”. So that would suggest that from a black male perspective there are some quite compelling reasons not to get married or there IS indeed a shortage of quality (black) women. Again, just because a woman claims she’s a good catch doesn’t necessarily make it so. The difference between black men/women on this issue is that black men don’t have the media access/catering to moan about it forever and ever nor are men in general overly sympathetic to other men complaining about their supposed lack of romantic success. Find a woman or not, but either way do your own thing and don’t complain to me seems to be the male perspective.
“Or instead, has the typical black girlfriend or wife been selected for her less negroid features when these guys do choose a black woman?
It really annoys me that when black men do admit that they prefer less negroid features, they will then defend this selection by saying that light skinned black women with more Euro features need love too.”
See, this is the crux of the matter right here. Some black women have such a bad self-perception that ANY black man who dares to marry a woman some black woman feels “threatened by” or “less than” receives opprobrium. “Negroid” features cover a pretty wide range of features. Carla Campbell and Whoopi Goldberg both have dark skin and “negroid” features. One is amazingly beautiful, the other not so much.
Sorry, but there is no official state test of who wealthy, influential black men intend to marry so that we can determine if their wives are “negroid appearing” enough to allow the marriage to take place. Why are you so concerned with who other people are marrying anyway? It’s not your business and doesn’t impact you.
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@Shady Grady–
That’s NOT the way debate and discussion works. You made an assertion. You need to back it up.
Oh, so you’re here to tell me what I “need” to do? Ha! Won’t work. Black men don’t back up their blanket assertions about how all (implied) Black women want thugs or are babymamas, goldiggers, fat, weave-wearing, with bad attitudes, and so on, but all of Black women read that everywhere. Put some links here to where you told Black men to back up these slanderous things they say about Black women.
You DID mention black athletes.
If you scroll up, you will see that it was King and Cynic who brought up athletes, just like you keep trying to get me to talk about Black male athletes. That’s how I mentioned athletes. I’ve pointed out repeatedly that I don’t focus on athletes. Do the scroll. I do NOT focus on Black male athletes.
The 22% of black marrying number in 2008 is from the Pew Research Center Study and is only a snap shot.
That showed what went on in 2008. I’d bet these figures have increased since then. Is there anyone reading this who believes that Black men have less interest today in dating and marrying nonblack women than they did in 2008? We’ll have to wait for the Pew Study for 2011 to find out for sure.
Many of the Black men who you keep saying are married to Black women reflects the PAST choices of older Black men, like my parents and those who are in the generation between my parents and mine. Black women who want to marry Black men today cannot marry Black men of the past.
Another thing is that there are Black men who are COHABITING (not married) with nonblack women. Lots of them. Black men’s dating and cohabiting figures don’t show up in the outmarriage rates. Why deny any of this?
eventually I’m going to realize that I can’t make those demands and will need to recalibrate my expectations. . . . They [Black women] may need to readjust their expectations and do some internal checking.
Oh, so we’re back to the “Black women should just settle for who they can get. That’s the usual response.
Black men and black women have similar rates of “never been married”.
This sounds similar, but look at the details behind these similar rates. Has it occurred to you that one big reason why the American Black woman marriage rate is so low is BECAUSE more American Black men are not asking them to marry them?
Based on what mostly happens, a Black man may sleep with Black women and have babies by them, but won’t ask them to marry them.
Why are you so concerned with who other people are marrying anyway? It’s not your business and doesn’t impact you.
In case you didn’t know it, my nationality is listed as “American black” woman. Whatever affects this group does impact ME. When anyone slanders Black women, it does impact me. It would be silly for me to ignore this and pretend that it doesn’t.
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@Jorbia
I brought up black male athletes bc YOU brought it up first. Shady Grady is right. You did flip flop on the issue by switching it to influential black men. Shady is also correct in the fact that you have NO facts that support these types of men are dating non-black women in exponential numbers.
Why the hell are you getting, so worked up about the fact that 13% of black men are currently married to another race as of 2008 according to that Pew Research study? You b*tch about that 22% number and completely ignore the fact that blacks and whites are the LEAST likely to be married to a white person. A quarter of Hispanic men and women BOTH married non-Hispanics in 2008, 39.5% of Asian women married to non-Asian men, and 19.5% of Asian men married non-Asian women in that year. That is just what happens when people are in a multi-cultural society. They mix and match up. Why don’t I hear Hispanics complaining about IR marriages? Asian women and Hispanics both have higher IR rates, yet the black man is a criminal for dating/marrying someone who is not of his race?
You bring up cohabitation? Umm.. why don’t you mention the fact that out of the 70% bw not married that there are bm cohabitating with them?
Black men do not own bw and vice versa. They can marry whoever the hell they want, so stop bringing up IR numbers as if it is a crime. You sound like some 1950 segregationist the way you talk about this subject.
http://pewresearch.org/pubs/1616/american-marriage-interracial-interethnic
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@Jorbia
I’d greatly appreciate a link or the name of the post we had are last conversation on. Something about white guys & black women during slavery.
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@Cynic–
I brought up black male athletes bc YOU brought it up first. Shady Grady is right.
Not true and everyone here can scroll up and see that. I entered this particular thread on Tues., May 17th. Post the proof of the comment where I brought up black male athletes first in this thread–just in case I overlooked it.
Why the hell are you getting, so worked up . . .
You guys are the ones who keep getting riled up when I state the reality. I’m just responding to slanderous statements and putdowns about American black women of which I am one.
As for what Hispanics and Asians are doing, you can talk to them about that.
You bring up cohabitation? Umm.. why don’t you mention the fact that out of the 70% bw not married that there are bm cohabitating with them?
This also adds to the high rate of non-married Black women, which adds to people saying that men don’t want to marry Black women for some reason, which leads to the high rates of the babymama syndrome which adds fuel to the notion that men don’t find us to be attractive partners.
I’m not surprised that American black men don’t want Black women to talk about this. I’ll bet some of those Black women actually want to marry their shack up man. There are websites and articles where some of those Black women talk about how their shack up man and babydaddy won’t marry them.
Black men do not own bw and vice versa.
I tell Black women on my campus the very same thing. Hope they’re reading what you’re saying. They need to get their minds off Black men because they don’t own them and they too are not owned by Black men.
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Yeah,
you gotta scroll right down to the bottom for some more gems from jorbia and here preoccupation with Black men dating out and Black women’s REVENGE dating white males:
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@ Menelik–
Yeah,
you gotta scroll right down to the bottom for some more gems from jorbia and here preoccupation with Black men dating out and Black women’s REVENGE dating white males:
Revenge? Ha! Just because you say it doesn’t make it so.
We wouldn’t need to look far to find all of the posts where you talk about how “mannish,” “masculine,” “aggressive” Black women supposedly are and then you, in particular, turn around and talk about how black women are the most “feminine” while slandering other women. Which is it?
Some of you Black men just have fun slandering Black women, don’t you? But when Black women respond, then you don’t like it.
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@ jorbia
Lol you mean you can’t separate what is physically “perfect” and superior about Black women from what is attitudinally offensive and unfeminine?
I can: I have!
Loooool
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I like and go out with men of all groups when they ask me out and when they respect me.
When you say men who respect you, are you referring to men who do not try to get a leg-over on the first date? Or is it code for non black men?
You guys are the ones who keep getting riled up when I state the reality.
Whose reality?
I’m just responding to slanderous statements and putdowns about American black women of which I am one.
For which I’m sure the black American women are grateful! Just say you hate and despise black men and call it a day, don’t make excuses. If you want a white man go for it! No need to rationalize(or try to), your dislike of black men.
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@Menelik–
you mean you can’t separate what is physically “perfect” and superior about Black women from what is attitudinally offensive and unfeminine?
There is no group of women who are physically “perfect” or superior and there is no group of women who are attitudinally offensive and unfeminine. That’s why I said above that some of you Black men talk the same as that Japanese mad “scientist.”
When racist white people slanderously label all black men with the same negative traits, black men are the first to holler. So why do it to black women and other women?
Just because you find some women who have offensive attitudes is no reason to constantly slander all of us.
I’ve never met a man of my caliber who had a problem with my attitude because the men who like and respect me know how to approach me. They know how to talk to me.
The problem I notice is that a lot of American black men don’t know how to approach black women in a respectful way. They like to name-call and talk down to black women, or talk all over women, slander black women or think that black women don’t know what’s being said even when these black men are insulting us! I notice that some black men go around silly women who like thugs and they then want to slander all black women and say we all are thug lovers.
I also notice that when American black men approach women who are not black, they’re MUCH more respectful.
I know some American black women like to pretend they don’t care, but I don’t like being slandered and disrespected. If you don’t like and respect certain women, just leave them alone.
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@Herneith–
When you say men who respect you, are you referring to men who do not try to get a leg-over on the first date? Or is it code for non black men?
No, I don’t see the need to talk in any “code.” Since I left home, I’ve gone out with a variety of men who asked me out. Some of them were black, like the ones I work with in the summer. The ones I went out with were respectful.
It almost sounds like YOU are saying that black men can’t be respectful. Otherwise, why would you even ask whether I’m talking about non-black men, only.
For which I’m sure the black American women are grateful! Just say you hate and despise black men
Oh, so you don’t think that some of the black men on this blog have a low opinion of black women? Amazing! Have you called them on their slander? Provide a link where you did that.
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jorbia,
if I had an unresolved issues or issues with my mother, the last thing I’d be doing is going up on the internet battling all these anonymous mommy-substitutes telling em how white women find me attractive!
I’d just get me a white girl and leave Black women the hell alone, and live my life as I choose.
Simple really.
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Who cares? It’s his loss. More black women for me!
The number one thing women desire in men is confidence…so it’s better to err on the side of too much arrogance than too much humility.
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@Jorbia
Not true and everyone here can scroll up and see that.
Here is the 2nd paragraph from your first comment:
“Not so much other black men, but a lot of American black men prove they believe what this guy says by who they pick to be their girlfriends and wives, especially when these guys have money and some influence. When a lot of American black men can get their pick of women, they pick white women and other women who look more white. You can make a list of them who do that and it will be most of them.”
Here goes my first mention of IR couples that clearly came after yours: https://abagond.wordpress.com/2011/05/12/the-physically-perfect-woman/#comment-87350
King’s first comment about IR also comes right after your first comment on this thread. It was a response to you…
I’m just responding to slanderous statements and putdowns about American black women of which I am one.
-Which comments on this blog are you speaking of? Do you mind linking them? I have only seen these types of comments from trolls claiming to be white.
As for what Hispanics and Asians are doing, you can talk to them about that.
-That’s the thing. You keep on bringing up the 22% number, but who’s to say that number represents self-hatred? Why is that number considered big? If you compare them with Asians & Hispanics, it doesn’t seem as alarming as you make it out to be, especially living in a multi-cultural society.
^If you ignore any of my points, plz at least answer those last two questions.^
I’m not surprised that American black men don’t want Black women to talk about this
-Ok so what is your theory? Why don’t these cohabitational men want to marry black women?
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“Why don’t these cohabitational men want to marry black women?”
A better question is, why don’t men want to marry in general?
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Cynic, I never mentioned black male ATHLETES which is what you and the others said I mentioned first. So let’s clear up first.
Now, YOU’re changing this to IR. That is NOT what you guys said that I brought up first. You said I was the first to bring up “Athletes.”
In terms of your questions, if you don’t understand how you and some of these other black men here are slandering black women, it’s actually pointless to point it out. I’m not about to go through this thread and all of these other threads to pinpoint all of the slander posted by black men, including you, about black women that I’ve read here since I started reading and posting on this site.
I also did NOT mention “self-hatred” in this thread or in that other thread that is referenced. Post the proof that I said that.
YOU and some of these other black men are the ones who are hollering about “hatred” and accused me of ‘hating and despising black men.’ Ha! That’s all in YOUR minds. Or you may be talking about someone else saying those things.
So, let the record show that I have NEVER used those terms in these threads. You all are the ones who have used those terms, not me.
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@Jorbia
Okay, I can partly give you the black athlete debacle(as if that’s worth anything). King brought that topic up first. The main point I was attempting to convey with my first two links was the main race of women rich influential bm marry. After all this arguing about who said what first the point still remains …
You have no proof.
No facts, no statistics, no polls or surveys on who the rich influential black men of which you speak of are marrying.
So why did you make that assertion?
Why is it that when you come in here constantly bashing black men, w/o any facts backing your claims, you are simply stating “the truth.” But, when I bring up well known facts, like the overweight/ obesity issues facing many American bw, I’m “slandering” and “putting down bw?”
-African American women have the highest rates of being overweight or obese compared to other groups in the U.S. About four out of five African American women are overweight or obese.
-In 2009, African American women were 60% more likely to be obese than Non-Hispanic White women.
http://minorityhealth.hhs.gov/templates/content.aspx?ID=6456
http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/mm5838a6.htm
Oh, and I am not changing anything to IR. Just check your FIRST comment on this thread.
I also did NOT mention “self-hatred” in this thread or in that other thread that is referenced.
-Instead of searching for the proof you said that, I’ll simply ask you why you believe so many black men want a non-blk woman. Tell me. What do you feel is the cause of this phenomenon Jorbia?
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Exactly.
@Jorbia, as other commenters have written, as I’ve written you have no proof for any of your claims.
Basic logic, basic science: If you make an assertion, a hypothesis, it is up to YOU to provide evidence and proof that will stand up to rigorous testing and debate. It is not up to those who disbelieve to prove you wrong, though in fact some have already done just that.
I don’t really care if you have a low opinion of black men. That’s your right. That doesn’t impact me in the least. But you can’t make claims that “black men do x” without providing some proof.
Most married black men are married to black women. That’s a fact.
No race of men is more likely to marry black women than black men. That’s a fact.
White men have an extremely low intermarriage rate with black women; white women have a very low intermarriage rate with black men. That’s a fact.
So I am inclined to disbelieve your consistent claims that “influential” top drawer black men are marrying (or cohabitating with) white women in droves. But I do remain open to the possibility IF you can provide some evidence. I’ll wait…
As far as “settling”, what do you think any human being has more control over?
The socio-sexual choices, makeup and desires of MILLIONS of other people with widely varying experiences, backgrounds and moralities, or their own physical, emotional and psychological state? The answer is obvious.
Most people (of whatever race or either gender) who get fantastically bent out of shape about the dating choices of the opposite gender are using that as a crutch to avoid doing the internal work they need to do.
A small twinge may be a human reaction;constant vitriol and anger hints at some control issues.
There are reasons that marriages are declining in the black community, interracial unions aren’t one of them. Again, 7 out of 100 black men marry white women. Only 7 of of 1000 white women marry black man. If a black woman can’t find a husband out of 93% of marriage minded black men, I will go out on a limb to posit that white women really don’t have a lot to do with that.
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Also, the reasons these sorts of debates ultimately dissipate is that we don’t have control over each other. We can no longer prevent people from marrying interracially if they so desire. Some might do so for reasons I think are honorable and valid. Others might do so for reasons I think are small-minded and stereotypical.
In either instance, it’s the individuals involved who have the final say, not anyone else. Their choices do not impact or influence my own. They are the ones who have to live with either other so it’s really no one else’s business.
I don’t think we can blame black men for the fact that American white women are more likely to marry black men than American white men are to marry black women. Take that up with white men.
People should do their own thing and not worry about who’s getting what from whom. I simply do not understand or sympathize with the need to negatively comment on/attempt to control someone else’s marriage choices. And this is true of WHATEVER group attempts to do it-white men, black men, black women, white women, etc. Life is too short.
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@Cynic re–
@Jorbia
Okay, I can partly give you the black athlete debacle(as if that’s worth anything).
I’ll take that as an apology for falsely accusing me of saying something that I didn’t.
The main point I was attempting to convey with my first two links was the main race of women rich influential bm marry.
Okay, maybe you should ask Abagond to start a topic about it since you want to discuss that.
After all this arguing about who said what first the point still remains …
No, YOU and some other guys here were the ones who accused me of bringing up “black male athletes”–first. I just repeated that it wasn’t true. I wasn’t arguing. Everyone else here could simply scroll up and read what really happened.
You have no proof.
You also have no proof that what I said is not true.
Why is it that when you come in here constantly bashing black men, w/o any facts backing your claims, you are simply stating “the truth.” But, when I bring up well known facts, like the overweight/ obesity issues facing many American bw, I’m “slandering” and “putting down bw?”
I never said HOW you’re slandering bw, so now you are reaching and trying to put words in my mouth. Won’t work since we can all scroll and read here.
Let the record show that YOU have introduced the topic of “bw & overweight/obesity” –not me.
Btw, that’s a straw man tactic. Everyone is aware of obesity rates already. Every group in America, in general, is becoming more obese (not just bw) and this is why the First Lady recently launched a program to curb obesity in all American children.
My only point about overweight/obese women and relationships is that it’s common these days to see and hear about American Black men dating, cohabiting with, or marrying obese/overweight nonblack women. Couples like that are a very common sight these days in many cities, rural areas, and in between. I’ve even read where some American black men were discussing the growing rate of black men with overweight/obese nonblack women. They were embarrassed by it.
Since you brought up obesity & bw, I hope you’re not piggybacking on similar lies from that quack Japanese scientist to try to make the case that obesity is the reason why black American men don’t marry at all (30% or a bit higher) or won’t marry their shack up bw partner or babymama. IF you are trying to make that case, then it is peculiar that so many American black men can apparently overlook the fat or obesity of a nonblack woman, but not a black woman’s.
I’ll simply ask you why you believe so many black men want a non-blk woman. Tell me. What do you feel is the cause of this phenomenon Jorbia?
Actually, there’s a black man I know who’s cohabiting with an obese white woman. Since he knows that I also date IR, we talked about IRs. He told me he wanted her because she’s his spiritual partner. He explained that he looked beyond her complexion and saw her spirit. I told him I understood because when a wm likes me and treats me in a respectful way, I can look at him and simply see a good guy.
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@ShadyGrady–
We can no longer prevent people from marrying interracially if they so desire.
This is just a fact. As Cynic said, black men and women do not OWN each other. We can go out with, cohabit with, love, marry and have children with whoever we want, if they want the same.
Those people, whether they’re black men, black women or their counterparts in other races who can’t handle that are going to be sitting around angry, ranting, pouting, and most likely miserable and alone for the rest of their lives, while the rest of us are enjoying our lives.
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@Jorbia
I’ll take that as an apology for falsely accusing me of saying something that I didn’t.
-Whoopdy frickin doo. Does this mean you win the entire debate? I wasn’t even aware that this was the crux of what you were making such a big deal about until like two of your comments ago. Come on Jorbia, you know there are bigger fish to fry in this argument.
No, YOU and some other guys here were the ones who accused me of bringing up “black male athletes”–first.
-I thought we had gotten off the discussion of who said what first about black males athletes. I was referring to your lack of evidence concerning wealthy & influential black men who are dating white women in droves. This entire debate is completely useless unless you bring out the facts behind you incessant bm bashing.
You also have no proof that what I said is not true.
-Like Shady said, it isn’t my job to provide this evidence when YOU made the assertion. Your bashing w/o facts is what’s getting on my nerves.
Every group in America, in general, is becoming more obese (not just bw)
-Um, yeah, but not at the same rate. Both of the links I posted were from government websites. They clearly state how much more likely black American women are overweight compared to other groups. You can deny it all you want, but a women’s weight does affect her luck in the dating realm. For most American men, regardless of weight, an overweight/obese women is considered unattractive.
-I’ll let it be known now that I brought up that comment in response to the debate btwn you & King. I thought it was obvious considering its location in this post. Like why would I just throw that in this thread out of nowhere? My point is, that for me, their are several reasons why many American bw are not marriage material and that these they have nothing to do with wanting a Euro-centric wife. That’s the thing you don’t get. You want to blame everybody else for the marriage statistics black women have, while totally ignoring the faults among many bw. I named faults bm have that keep their marriage statistic around 60%, why can’t you do the same?
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@Cynic–
I thought it was obvious considering its location in this post. Like why would I just throw that in this thread out of nowhere?My point is, that for me, their are several reasons why many American bw are not marriage material and that these they have nothing to do with wanting a Euro-centric wife.
First of all, let me say that I didn’t realize that this discussion was about what YOU want in a woman. I entered the discussion talking about that Japanese quack.
However, I don’t like talking to people who begin accusing me of saying things I didn’t say. That’s a part of what I mean about American Black men approaching a Black woman in the wrong way. In my experience, many American bm have a negative or wrong attitude when they approach a bw. Then they tend to badger her and try to force her to talk to them. This discussion is a case in point. If a man wants a certain type of response, he must learn how to approach the woman.
You continue to attack me when you obviously want me to talk to you. If I’m getting “on your nerves,” has it occurred to you that you don’t have to read my comments or talk to me?
The statistics and facts are what they are. Contrary to what you think, it is NOT my “job” to provide “evidence” to satisfy YOU or anyone else. I’m not going to spend my day posting statistics here that are not going to change reality. If you don’t believe me, I can live with that.
They clearly state how much more likely black American women are overweight compared to other groups. You can deny it all you want, but a women’s weight does affect her luck in the dating realm.
I didn’t deny ANYTHING. See how you’re trying to put words in my mouth again. That’s a foul move.
I will point out that an overweight/obese white woman’s weight doesn’t appear to affect her luck much in the dating realm with American Black men. This is common knowledge among many in that segment of white women that I know, that if all else fails, they can get a Black man. If you require proof, don’t ask me. Believe it or not. I’ll bet most readers here have seen plenty evidence of this.
So there are other factors involved with a woman’s weight and dating. There are also slim Black women who get overlooked by Black men. They don’t go out with white men either because I suppose they have those unresolved issues with white men or believe in those myths that King mentioned. That’s sad. My point is that there are other solid factors involved in dating.
Personally, I believe that no matter how “perfect” a Black woman is, certain Black men will still nitpick and find things “wrong” with her or reasons to reject her.
It doesn’t matter to me whether anyone believes that either.
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Oops, sorry about the “bold print.”
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@Jorbia
This debate is over. You have no facts. Period. But, either way I guarantee you are still going to go on stating the “truth.”
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@Cynic–
This debate is over. You have no facts. Period. But, either way I guarantee you are still going to go on stating the “truth.”
You have no “facts” either and can’t prove me wrong, so you’ll continue to state your “truth” too, and life will flow merrily along.
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@Jorbia
What do I need facts for? I’m not making any claims I can’t back up. You are
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The Cynic,
in seeking the truth/evidence from jorbia you merely exposed the foundation of much of her assertions: LIES!
Thanks.
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@Menelik–
in seeking the truth/evidence from jorbia you merely exposed the foundation of much of her assertions: LIES!
Thanks.
I’m sure you wish that you could disprove my assertions, but it’s up to everyone who read what I said to decide. After all, we’re operating in the court of public opinion. If I were lying, you could just laugh me off, but you can’t. That’s why you can’t let it go. YOU are obviously quite rattled.
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the cynic No wonder why so many ppl on this site have insecurity and self-hate issues. You spend all damn day begging for the white acceptance your never gonna get
I think you misunderstood grady. He’s not asking for acceptance at all. Just mentioning how if people don’t see you as their equals or deserving of respect, it can greatly affect the quality of your life.
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*chic noir waves*
Hi charles
* chic noir looks at charles menlick’s manuscrip under his arm*
*charles follows chic noir’s eyes to manuscrip*
I’m almost finished chic… almost.
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never mind cynic. I see you cleared up the problem in comment # 21.
well how’s everybody anyway 🙂
*chic noir pulls out bottle fine red wine*
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charles They can seek to conceal what it is they most desire and envy behind the promotion of Bi-racial sisters as ‘Ideal’ Black women in music and film but this will not stop them attacking and seeking to marginalise that which the most prefer and envy…dark-skinned, negroid-featured, Black females
what’s funny here is that you see plenty of dark-skinned, negriod-featured, blk females in high fashion. as a matter of fact, a blk model was choosed the be the the fall/winter campaign of Louie Vuitton. Marc Jacobs also used a blk model in one his spring ad campaigns.
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cynic I do believe a lot of American bw do not manage their looks as well as other groups of women.
give me the dirt.
*chic noir leans in to cynic*
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chic noir:
what’s funny here is that you see plenty of dark-skinned, negriod-featured, blk females in high fashion. as a matter of fact, a blk model was choosed the be the the fall/winter campaign of Louie Vuitton.
Menelik says:
what’s most significant is that most of the women in the fashion industry are chosen by gay men, and bitter white spinsters who loath their sex, and as a result conspire with gay men who envy women’s anatomy, to caricature women as shapeless, boobless, buttless, boy-like, stick insects!
Hence, the dark skins of Black women in this industry are all part of a wider caricature of the female sex.
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charles Hence, the dark skins of Black women in this industry are all part of a wider caricature of the female sex.
I don’t understand. Are you saying that blk women in the industry aren’t chosen because their is something about special about them?
Aren’t Naomi and Tyra(shaplier from another time) real women?
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Clothes hang better on a thin long body, it’s just a question of how thin is too thin to look like a healthy young woman.
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@chic noir, Naomi and Tyra are exceptions that prove the general rule…as you very well know lol:
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Most men do not perceive catwalk models as either physically attractive or healthy!
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the catwalk models of today yes but those from the 90’s were all that. Real women/models have curves.
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I think the modeling world is gradualy shifting back to a thicker model. crystal Renn and Lora Stone are two thicker popular models. Jennielle williams isn’t stick thin either, she’s a bit muscular. More muscular than Naomi campbell btw.
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@Chic Noir
I really am not sure how to expound on that statement I made. I was just playing off of a comment I made like a day b4 that one on another thread in response to the conversation btwn King & Jorbia.
I think many Black men & women are not marriage material, in regards to what American culture defines as an ideal mate. Women tend to put more value in wealth & power and men put more value in physical beauty & submissiveness. Both American black men & women are lacking in these traits as a group and that is why I feel we have such low marriage rates, with BM having a single rate around 60% & BW around 70%. Unfortunately, both genders have trouble admitting these faults w/in their respective sex, even if they don’t fit any of the stereotypes! I think that’s a problem and black relationships, families, and culture are going to continue to suffer unless we admit our shortcomings.
I’m not sure if that answers your question, but that is how I feel on this entire issue. Hopefully you understand where I am coming from concerning this topic…
*plz excuse the generalizations. Hopefully it is understood I am not speaking about every member w/in collective groups
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the cynic- the hair thing is because so many blk women don’t know how to work with their natural hair. Sad it really is.
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@chic noir,
I adore darker-skinned women (Bria Myles and Serena Williams being my absolute fave babes) but I think in keeping with the gay nature of the modeling industry, Jennielle Williams (like Alec Wek) is just downright odd looking!
Also the shift, as you claim, to healthier-looking models has more to do with the general outrage outside of the industry at the number of skeletal females treading the boards than the industry suddenly taking a woman-embracing, heterosexual turn for the better!
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@Chic Noir
The hair thing is because so many blk women don’t know how to work with their natural hair. Sad it really is.
Yes. I realized this a few months ago after thinking about it a little. I admit, I don’t know much about black women’s hair process, but I really feel as if weaves/perms are ruining bw’s hair. Natural hair just isn’t made for the styles a lot of bw wish to achieve. However, if you mention this to some they get defensive and say black men don’t like natural hair, natural hair takes too much time to manage, or they’ve been conditioned by the media…
There is some validity to those statements, but it doesn’t change the fact that perms/weaves just don’t work for most bw. I believe the average bw should be walking around with hair styles like this:
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the cynici agreed. her hair is beautiful.
Jennielle williams kinda looks like Serena Williams. Well what do you think about Kelly Moreana?
Also the shift, as you claim, to healthier-looking models has more to do with the general outrage outside of the industry at the number of skeletal females treading the boards than the industry suddenly taking a woman-embracing, heterosexual turn for the better
I think that is a large part of it. Plus past a certain point, thiness is no longer attractive. There are a few str8 men in the industry and from what I’ve seen,heard, and read, they prefer models who are a bit thicker.
I’m not sure most women in the industry like the look of models who look like death warmed over. Most people in the industry just follow the leader.
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I think her hair is beautiful too. I love big natural hair.
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I’m late to this (and any other topic), but…
Based on her posts, I find Demerera extremely appealing.
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The Cynic:
The woman in that video is insanely BEAUTIFUUUUUL! But just saying that, me being a 43 year old makes me feel like a semi-pedofile.
But dayuuum…she is beautiful and she has the kind of hair I’d like to brush my face against in the morning and make it even fluffier…whatta beutiful woman!
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My Ideal man would have to be
Height: Tall 5’8 and over
Body Type: He has to be thin but lean with muscles.
Hair length: As long as it is shorter than mines
Hair colour: Black Hair
Eye colour: Doesn’t matter. But I love guys with dark hair and light eyes.
Skin colour: Tan or fair.
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Big ass, big tits, lots a brains.
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@ Hannu L
Big ass, big tits, lots a brains.
Well, thats one way to describe me Hannu 😉
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I’m 511 170 pounds skinny body frame but I like women that are tall around my height and up around 160-200 pounds pair or athletic shaped with a big butt big heavy legs and thighs
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Demerera
@ Hannu L
Big ass, big tits, lots a brains.
———————————————————————————
Me?
big ass, big tits;
brains?
meh….
But on a serious note I want to explain to the ladies why you can’t trust a man who says he is NOT attracted to women of a certain race.
If you fill a “deserted island” with 100 18 year old females who span the racial spectrum (height, weight and measurements roughly the same) and then you drop a healthy man off on the island; he will engage in sexual intercourse with ALL 100 of the females.
Sexual attraction for men is first and foremost a function of proximity.
Sorry, I didn’t make the rules, thats just the way it is; don’t hate the players, hate the game.
White men who say they aren’t attracted to black females are saying that for the benefit of other white men.
With nobody lookin?
Mens standards go out the friggin window.
I don’t have “proof” of this; but I got a ton of evidence.
Proximity + diversity does NOT = war;
it equals fcuking.
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