The Chinese Invasion Experiment is a thought experiment where you imagine what would become of white people if the Chinese took over America and began to settle it:
Meijiang: Quick Facts:
- Location: In North America, between Canada and Mexico
- Status: overseas autonomous region
- Governor: Lee Kwan Yu (since 2307)
- Capital: San Francisco
- Land Area: 9,166,601 sq km
- Population: 1315.8 million (2309 est.)
- Major ethnic groups: Han Chinese (75%), White American (12%), Mexican (8%), Black American (3%), Other (2%).
- Resources: coal, timber, beef, wheat, hydroelectric power
Notes on the White American people:
The White Americans live mainly in the overseas Chinese province of Meijiang. It used to be their own country, called America.
They are not at all Chinese. They are distant relations of the Germans of Germany and close cousins of the British and Australians. Their language is English. Their religion is Protestant Christianity. Because of Chinese rule their religion is weak.
There are 159 million White Americans. Most live in Meijiang but some live in the neighbouring country of Canada or in big Chinese cities on the mainland, like Beijing, Hong Kong and Shanghai. The Chinese fear them as kind of wild and dangerous.
Hundreds of years ago they settled in cities across Meijiang. Their great city was New York. They were free and independent from the 1600s to the 2000s. Their empire – and their golden age – was from 1945 to 2017.
China began taking over their country in the late 2000s. By 2138 it was complete. In the 2100s they started sending Chinese there to live so that now San Francisco, the capital, is only 8% white and Meijiang as a whole is only 15% white.
White Americans are not allowed to study their language, English, after middle school. They cannot study or practise their religion, Christianity, till age 18. The Chinese treat them like dirt and destroy their famous buildings, particularly in New York and Washington. Taxi drivers in San Francisco will not pick them up.
Chinese workers at one factory say things like this:
Everyone always says watch out for whites, they’ll rob you. And they do look aggressive.
They are always trouble. They can’t speak Chinese. And they steal.
When asked why so many whites are out of work, the Chinese say it is because they do not work hard.
One hard-working Chinese business owner puts it well:
The Chinese are sick of being blamed for white misfortune in present times. The whites drop out, join gangs, sell drugs, go to jail – almost all of them. Then they demand special government support because we “took their land” and we owe them. On top of that they rob us and steal our cars, and somehow it’s all our fault. There are lots of poor Chinese people too but they don’t get the same attention.
Source: Except for the Quick Facts, none of this is made up: I just took a post I wrote about the Uighurs, whose land is being invaded by the Chinese, and a comment about Native Canadians and then changed up the names and dates.
See also:
- Other thought experiments or experiments about being in other people’s shoes:
- How to argue like a white racist
- People whose land has been invaded:
- Uighurs – the model for our post
- The Sioux today
- The Delaware
- Aeta – Negritos in the Philippines
- Maori – the native people of New Zealand
- Melbourne, Day 2 – tells about the Australian aborigines
- white people
Wow Abagond, don’t get banned again! LOL!
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Nukes will make such a scenario quite unlikely.
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Lol at mr.thomas and lol at all
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Mr Thomas says:
Obviously, blacks don’t understand racism is wrong either, because racism still exist in Africa TODAY. LOOKS like you blacks believe it’s okay to mistreat your own brotha’s and sista’s!”
Not sure if you’re referring to White farmers being killed in South Africa, but why the outrage when it’s affecting them when they did it to blacks with impunity for a loooong time. It’s awful of course, I’m not condoning it, but where was your outrage when it was blacks dying at the hands of Whites. Seems a bigger crime when it affects Caucasians.There may have been violence in my country but it’s White folkks that took it to a different level. Racism in SA today is reactinonary. Again it’s awful what’s happening, I must stress that I would never condone violence, period. Then again I haven’t been back there for 15 yrs, maybe it’s worse than I remember.
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I agree with MerriMay 1000%. 🙂
On point!
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so what would happen to blacks, hispanics, and other ethnic minorities??? let me guess…we’d all be exterminated like the holocaust or something wouldn’t we? oh well, i’d prefer that to slavery.
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Black do understand racism is wrong that’s why we have blogs like this to speak out against white supremacist trash like you.
You can tell your kinfolk in africa to go back to europe, you whites have done nothing but pollute and destroy africa and steal all you can!
At least if we whites go back to Europe, we won’t have to be slaves like you blacks will be in the mother land!
Slavery still exist in Africa and this time you cannot blame the white man!
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MerriMay Says:
Fri 18 Dec 2009 at 23:25:06
Not sure if you’re referring to White farmers being killed in South Africa, but why the outrage when it’s affecting them when they did it to blacks with impunity for a loooong time. It’s awful of course, I’m not condoning it, but where was your outrage when it was blacks dying at the hands of Whites. Seems a bigger crime when it affects Caucasians.There may have been violence in my country but it’s White folkks that took it to a different level. Racism in SA today is reactinonary. Again it’s awful what’s happening, I must stress that I would never condone violence, period. Then again I haven’t been back there for 15 yrs, maybe it’s worse than I remember.
I was not alive when Africans were being killed by whites. That happened over 300 years ago. It had nothing to do with me nor you. That was in the past so just get over it.
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Mr Thomas, with comment #11, wins the Roissy for this post!!! Congratulations!
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Another Chinese businessman, not quoted in my post, said this to a white person about the Chinese invasion of America:
“I was not alive when whites were being killed by the Chinese. That happened over 200 years ago. It had nothing to do with me nor you. That was in the past so just get over it.”
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Mr. Thomas Says:
“Obviously, blacks don’t understand racism is wrong either, because racism still exist in Africa TODAY. LOOKS like you blacks believe it’s okay to mistreat your own brotha’s and sista’s!”
People mitreat eachother all the time regardless of race!
And let’s not go into the “blacks in africa mistreatment” argument!
It’s only been about 10 years ago when Christian Serbs & Bosnian Muslims were at eachother’s throats! (Btw they were both White racially and slavic ethnically!)
Mr. Thomas Says:
“At least if we whites go back to Europe, we won’t have to be slaves like you blacks will be in the mother land!
Slavery still exist in Africa and this time you cannot blame the white man!”
Who would blacks be slaves to!? Do enlighten us troll!
Mr. Thomas Says:
“I was not alive when Africans were being killed by whites. That happened over 300 years ago. It had nothing to do with me nor you. That was in the past so just get over it.”
That maybe true but remember the old saying:
Those that forget the past are bound to repeat it!
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The only thing I wonder about this is that Chinese love light skin and have long gotten surgery for the rounder eyes.
I can their wealthy businessmen marrying blondes, and many whites being absorbed into a melting pot, leaving white ghettos to the less attractive whites.
I think blacks in particular would fare the worst of the racial groups.
Your link to your Uighurs post of what actually happened to those people under Chinese rule was fascinating.
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Mr Thomas says:
I was not alive when Africans were being killed by whites. That happened over 300 years ago. It had nothing to do with me nor you. That was in the past so just get over it.
What planet did you get off of? I was ALIVE when Whites were killing blacks and the ruling WHITE government turned the other cheek,you simpleton! And I’m 25!That’s how recent it was. White cops stopped blacks because they felt like it, god help a kaffir if he got stroppy!They’d sjambok(whip) him raw. Funny how you have a selective memory about what your buddies did, am sure still do, after all there are still many white cops in SA.
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abagond…your blog is all messed up. what did u do?
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Not funny at all but par for the course with this type of reasoning. Again, they are abdicating any responsibility in atrocities but will point to those that have happened to them. What they are really saying is this; who cares about what happened to you or yours? they will try to sugar coat it with “but you do it to your own” rebuttals.
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Peanut:
I am trying to change my theme, the layout.
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Kit said:
“I can [see] their wealthy businessmen marrying blondes, and many whites being absorbed into a melting pot, leaving white ghettos to the less attractive whites.”
I disagree. They like white beauty now because whites are on top. In the world of 2309 given above, they will need reasons to look down on whites because of what they have done to them. Just like how whites look down on blacks now.
People fit their beliefs to suit their circumstances to a shocking degree. You see how white commenters twist stuff to suit their position. Why should the Chinese – or anyone in power – be any different? More here:
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Hmmmm, is this why if you type in “I am e” in google search the drop down menu suggests, “I am extremely afraid of chinese people”? lol
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LOL
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abagond, the chinese experiment is good. How about you do a post on women who like married men or why men cheat??
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This reads like the outline of what could b a speculative fiction novel.
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abagond,
This silly post reads like a black fantasy tale.
Meanwhile, by telling it you reveal your deeply racist nature. You also reveal how little you know about democracy, freedom, capitalism and the Chinese.
The Age of Conquering is over. Today, everything is about trade.
Meanwhile, China has never shown much interest in expanding it borders. There’s no reason a change in the Chinese national philosophy is likely to occur.
In fact, China has more reason that ever to hope for rising prosperity in the US. Otherwise China itself will come under economic pressure. The country is edging toward democracy. It is already a capitalist nation with a thin layer of communism on top.
Given the success of China’s transitioning economic programs, there is no reason to predict a shift to the totalitarian policies you mentioned.
However, in the mind of someone with anti-white sentiments, your scenario is probably cathartic.
A far more likely scenario is one in which the US and China leap-frog each other as leading economies while China develops new relationships with resource-rich nations that want its consumer products.
Based on your comments, it appears you believe that subjugation is the goal of international relations. That notion seems to be common among blacks.
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The point of the post was not fantasy, catharsis or prediction. As I stated in the first paragraph, it is a THOUGHT EXPERIMENT.
I wrote it because white Americans subjugate others but do not understand what it is to be subjugated. So I was trying to help them to understand. It is a lead-in to another post I am writing.
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No Slappz says:
“The Age of Conquering is over. Today, everything is about trade.”
You tell that to the Uighurs and the Tibetans. This post was based on what the Uighurs are going through now.
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abagond,
You seem to know remarkably little about muslims and the problems caused by Islam.
The Uighurs are muslims. Meanwhile, Uighur-land is IN China. Theus, the Uighurs are Chinese citizens, whether they like it or not. However, it appears they do not like it.
But their objection is a function of Islam. Muslims see Islam as the highest authority in their lives. They try to live on Islamic terms. That works when muslims are the majority population in a state. They simply drive out all non-muslims and establish an Islamic society.
But they cannot do that in China, or the US, where they are a tiny minority. However, their religious priorities put them at odds with the Chinese government — which recognizes NO authority higher than itself.
Given the resources and ambitions of the Chinese government, I would advise the Uighurs to change their ways — OR — move out.
China is NOT a free country. That’s reality. The Uighurs have to accept the fact they face more trouble than they can handle if they think they can put their religion above the state.
As for Tibet, it’s a border country and relations with China have been troubled forever.
But neither Uighur-land nor Tibet share any common ground with a fantasy scenario involving a punitive Chinese government taking control of America and oppressing whites.
Your scenario has been played out in many dramas. Planet of the Apes and a long list of role-reversal tales.
But as I said, in your scenario, the Chinese present traits they do not have these days. You simply cast them as stereotyped plantation bosses while replacing poor disgruntled blacks with poor disgruntled whites, all while throwing in boilerplate racist jabber coming from the Chinese instead of the whites whose suffering you hope to enjoy.
That’s your fantasy scenario, and it shows no signs of thought.
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Man, is it even worth trying to argue with someone who is in essence saying, “People are racist and have racist policies, so deal!”
>As for Tibet, it’s a border country and relations with China have been troubled forever.
Btw, Tibet is within Chinese borders. It is politically and legally part of China. (I’m not saying this is the way it should, but that it just is atm.)
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fromthetropics,
Though Tibet is part of China, it is a relatively recent addition, and the people of Tibet are not wholly supportive of the Chinese government. However, China will not grant Tibet independence due to its strategic value.
As for the Uighurs, well, too bad for them. They live in a nation that is officially atheistic. Hence, they should practice their religion in a low-key manner if they want to avoid hassles with a regime that will persecute them.
Why is it that people living in free countries like the US believe countries like China should be expected to practice religious tolerance?
If they did, then they would almost deserve to be called free countries.
Anyway, China is a tough customer, but one that has shown zero interest in building an empire based on the British model.
As I said, today, everything is about trade. Why take on the headaches of a whole country when you can get what you want through Trade Agreements?
That’s the reason China will never “invade” the US in a military sense.
Their invasions will remain invasions of consumer products coming over on container ships. Every country can benefit from this form of invasion.
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No Slappz said:
“But as I said, in your scenario, the Chinese present traits they do not have these days. You simply cast them as stereotyped plantation bosses while replacing poor disgruntled blacks with poor disgruntled whites, all while throwing in boilerplate racist jabber coming from the Chinese instead of the whites whose suffering you hope to enjoy.”
If you wish to comment, then please do everyone a favour and READ the post.
If you read and understood the post you would know:
1. This post is not about prediction or fantasy.
2. That the racist jabber is not boilerplate but taken from what people have said about Uighurs and Native Canadians.
3. That it has nothing to do with any imagined plantation.
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@no_slappz – Why do you assume I live in the US? I’ve never lived there. I currently live in Indonesia, the largest Muslim country in the world, and probably one of the most tolerant and moderate Muslim countries in the world.
And why do you assume that Abagond thinks China is going to invade the US? It’s an analogy for revealing how absurd racism is. It is not a prediction. It’s like using the phrase, “Try to put yourself in my shoes…” But instead of using that phrase, Abagond has created an analogy type story (that’s also entertaining if you ask me).
Correct me if I’m wrong, Abagond.
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You are absolutely right.
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fromthetropics, you asked:
“And why do you assume that Abagond thinks China is going to invade the US?”
Let’s start with the title of the post and then go to the first paragraph. There is no other explanation for the scenario except military INVASION.
abagond wrote:
“The Chinese Invasion Experiment — The Chinese Invasion Experiment is a thought experiment where you imagine what would become of white people if the Chinese took over America and began to settle it:”
It is a fantasy tale for blacks in which whites are abused by a repressive invading government.
Meanwhile, it is an oxymoron to claim there is a tolerant and moderate muslim country. By its very existence a muslim country is a manifestation of intolerance.
As for where you live, well, I have no idea. I only know that you claim to live in Indonesia, but you could say you live anywhere you like.
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Going of topic yet again! It would be funny but the joke is getting old very quickly!
I wonder if “no_slappz” next post will involve bashing muslims and blacks yet not actually keep on topic or completely miss the point!
Personally I’d ban his a** from this blog!
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No Slappz:
Just so you know, most of my commenters are black, yet they understood the post and you did not – you, who are white and come here telling us what little intelligence blacks have compared to whites. Do you see the irony in that?
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Great. I just realized I was talking to an idiot. No wonder macon wouldn’t publish some of his/her comments.
Abagond, s/he’s all yours. You might want to start with the English lesson s/he missed (if you can be bothered). You know, the one where the teacher talks about analogies and metaphors?
>As for where you live, well, I have no idea. I only know that you claim to live in Indonesia, but you could say you live anywhere you like.
@no_splappz – well, if you could check my IP address I’d have the last laugh (assuming you know where Indonesia is). Too bad you can’t. But I wonder why you’re so skeptical about what ppl claim on the net? Perhaps because you’re always lying on the net? Well, FYI not everyone is like that.
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I can see her IP address and she is in fact coming from Indonesia.
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fromthetropics,
Confirming the location of your IP address does not interest me. In the scope of an online debate, it is meaningless. The only relevant factor is the quality and demonstrable accuracy of comments.
Apparently you think your online presence is more than the words you type on the blog.
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abagond, you wrote:
“Just so you know, most of my commenters are black, yet they understood the post and you did not – you, who are white and come here telling us what little intelligence blacks have compared to whites. Do you see the irony in that?”
The real irony is the fact that you do not understand the subtext of your own post. Actually, it is not even the subtext.
Your Chinese Invasion post simply is not what you think it is. As I said, it was merely an exercise in role reversal presented as a fill-in-the-blanks exercise, with the Chinese in the role of the oppressors and whites as the oppressed.
No evidence of imagination. Just wish fulfillment.
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So we are all wrong and you are right – about what *I* wrote. Please tell me that is a joke.
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Abagond,
It’s amazing how NO SLAPZ fits so perfectly into all of your posts about White racists. They’re just willfully dumb.
Your post was excellent and thought provoking.
Hope you had a wonderful Christmas and wish you all the best for 2010!!
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abagond, the disembodied author of your Chinese Invasion Scenario stated the following:
“China began taking over their country in the late 2000s. By 2138 it was complete. In the 2100s they started sending Chinese there to live so that now San Francisco, the capital, is only 8% white and Meijiang as a whole is only 15% white.”
Thus, the god-like conscience of your thought experiment is clearly expressing a forced conversion of one culture to another — not assimilation. But a forced conversion.
Your authorial conscience provides details:
“White Americans are not allowed to study their language, English, after middle school. They cannot study or practise their religion, Christianity, till age 18.”
You must have looked at the Handbook for Empire Building before assuming your role as social engineer. The Romans pushed Latin, among other things. But when it came to forced conversions, it was once hard to beat the muslims, who forced those who lived in conquered territories to speak Arabic and become muslims. That or die. From that we got the Ottoman Empire.
Of course, in your scenario, you want to pretend the Constitution never existed. As if your “Chinese”, when they disparage Americans, are just Americans by another name.
Your authorial conscience added:
“The Chinese treat them like dirt and destroy their famous buildings, particularly in New York and Washington. Taxi drivers in San Francisco will not pick them up.”
No matter how you try to torture reality with this silly claim about destroying buildings, it is nearly impossible to connect your view to the facts of life in either country.
As I said, your scenario is wish fulfillment expressed through a mindless role reversal that lacks a basis in fact.
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No Slappz:
I am done talking to you. You do not respect fact nor do you even extend me and the other commenters the courtesy of reading the post in full and trying to understand it the way the author meant it.
You seem to write at a university level. I write at an eighth-grade level – I do not use words like “disembodied”, “disparage” and “authorial” like you do – so my posts should be easy as pie for you to understand. But for some reason they are not. Why is that?
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oh boy. oh wise one (slappz) is back from presents and stuffing his face with Christmas puddings…
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@AO:
Do not invoke his name! HaHaHa!!!!!!
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@ Herneith. yeah i know. i am playin with fiyah!!! hahaha
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Wow. This is Ass Who Must Not Be Named is one of the reasons I don’t dare keep a blog. I’d only do it for the comments, but then I’d have to put up with crap like this. Jeez, the disrespect! At least have the courtesy to click the links and read them. It’s so obvious he didn’t. And I simply cannot believe he straight up tried to tell you that you don’t know what you wrote! *staggered*
The idea is not that POC are wishing this on white Americans, or anyone else. The exercise asks white Americans to imagine how they would feel if this happened to them. That is all. It says nothing about black people (except their demographic percentage). And it’s not even really about the fictitious future Chinese. It asks white people to imagine how they would feel. A 5-year-old could get this.
I’d tell this hopeless mess to RTFOP, but he’s so busy throwing out the Wite-Magik Attax™— I count at least six of them; weak, specious, unoriginal distractions to a one— that that’s not the point, is it? It’s not about reading comprehension or logic; it’s about turning the convo away from a topic that brings on feelings of fear and shame.
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abagond, you wrote:
“You do not respect fact nor do you even extend me and the other commenters the courtesy of reading the post in full and trying to understand it the way the author meant it.”
Fact? Your post is a request to indulge in fantasy. Not a word is Fact. That is the essence of the post — engage in a fantasy, which, in this case, is wish fulfillment based on whites becoming underdogs after America is conquered by China.
You wrote:
“I write at an eighth-grade level –– so my posts should be easy as pie for you to understand.”
Your writing is clear. However, when it comes to eighth-grade levels, it is your logic that suffers.
As I said, you do not understand the silliness of your scenario. Your scenario is based on the notion that any society can become a doormat of any other society. It implies that inventive, intelligent, educated world-leading people can lose the attributes that elevated a society to the top rungs.
America can slip from its world leadership role. Maybe moving down to Number Two. But as long as whites are the majority of citizens, there is no chance the country will become the nightmare your experiment depicts.
Thus, it is a foolish experiment driven by wish fulfillment rather than a reasonable sociological and demographic view.
If you want to play the game, you should work with real-world examples. The Irish took plenty of abuse in the US before rising into the mainstream. Anti-Irish and anti-Catholic discrimination was common for a century. But the election of John Kennedy marked the end of it.
Jews in the US were subjected to Jim Crow-type laws and customs until the 1970s. Of course if you want a scenario in which whites were truly and horrifyingly abused, check with Nazi Germany.
However, there is a lesson you should learn. Whenever whites face punitive conditions, they overcome.
To improve their lives in the US, Jews became superior students. But top colleges Limited their enrollment because TOO MANY were qualifying for admission.
Today, in the US, black students cannot match the white and asian students. To get into top US colleges, the top schools add 200 bonus points to their SAT scores. If admissions to top schools were based solely on academic merit, the number of black students admitted would be close to zero.
You need some reality in your game.
Anyway,
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karinova, you wrote:
“The exercise asks white Americans to imagine how they would feel if this happened to them.”
It is one thing to ask a person for his response to bullying, or suddenly finding himself on the bottom of the social order.
But it is something else to ask a person to ignore all factors that lead to social position, especially social position in the US.
For anyone who is NOT a muslim, try visiting a muslim country. You will quickly discover you have no rights. You will realize that many muslims dislike you simply for being a non-muslim. You will see the government of the muslim country disapproves of you and has enacted laws to enforce the disapproval. Reading a Bible to a muslim in Saudi Arabia can get you in legal trouble.
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Karinova got it precisely right.
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Your writing is clear. However, when it comes to eighth-grade levels, it is your logic that suffers.
Let me get this straight…
The original post is quite clearly meant as an excercise in counterhistory, the purpose of which is to get white Americans to think about what it would be like to live as a conquered people (like, for example, the Indians which the U.S. conquered).
Anyone who can read can easily get the point of the original story.
And yet you classify this story as “wish fulfilment”, thus not only completely missing its intent, but also showing a clear lack of understanding as to what the term “wish fulfillment” means?
And you think Karinova is operating on a 8th grade logical level?
😀 😀 😀 😀
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No Slappz meant me, Abagond, not Karinova.
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abagond,
As I said, NO ONE enjoys life at the bottom of the social totem pole.
But there are reasons people drop to the bottom, and in the US, the reasons are almost always a matter of personal actions and choice.
To experience the form of domination expressed in your “thought experiment” requires a forced takeover of society.
Even if I were to assume the Chinese were foolish enough to enact your scenario, white Americans would remain resourceful, resilient people who would, through education, intelligence and determination, overcome the hardships you hope to inflict.
After all, those are the reasons America became the dominant force it is. American exceptionalism is no accident. We can examine its elements. Just as we can examine the elements and forces that have shaped other nations.
Anyway, in your wish fulfilling thought experiment, you gave educated, sophisticated whites the traits of oppressed people.
That is not a setting for the rise of oppression of the majority.
Moreover, in your attempt to “teach whites a lesson” you ignore the fact that blacks have been desperately trying to get into the US for the last 50 years.
If there US were as inhospitable to blacks as you pretend, then the migration rate of blacks would be negative — they would be leaving the US and the black population would be dropping. But, as you know, that is hardly the case.
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white Americans would remain resourceful, resilient people who would, through education, intelligence and determination, overcome the hardships you hope to inflict.
I doubt it.
After all, Southern whites are still baaaaawing over the ass-whupping they received in 1865 and that’s nothing like the whupping the States would receive in a Chinese invasion.
But Abagond, there’s a sci-fi series about this sort of scenario, taking place some 500 years after said Chinese take over.
One of the chilling things about the book is that, 200 or so pages into it, you discover that Black Americans were “ethnically cleansed” by a “reactionary” Chinese maximum leader who, for some reason, “had an irrational fear of African Americans”. The current “enlightened” government deplores the event, kinda like today’s Germany deplores the Holocaust.
I mean, like, “oops”.
I wish I could remember the author: it was a great series, about five books long. Very well done sci fi and the author obviously knows a lot about Chinese cultures and histories.
Another similar sci-fi novel – without black genocide – is “China Mountain Zheng”. Also very good at portraying the U.S. under Chinese domination – this time more benevolent, however.
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Even if I were to assume the Chinese were foolish enough to enact your scenario, white Americans would remain resourceful, resilient people who would, through education, intelligence and determination, overcome the hardships you hope to inflict.
Do you really believe in this? I mean, really?!!??
This comment made me laugh. Just like some idiotic Hollywood movie.
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Thaddeus:
Were they by black authors? Is this thing just some kind of black fantasy – like what No Slappz says is the “true meaning” of my post?
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Why would Chnese Invasion experiment be a true meaning of this post? I mean, we see whites in China’s Meijiang being treated badly…. But I don’t think those 3% black Americans are having fun.
The only thing I don’t like about this post is that you chose China. I understand why you did it, but I dislike it. China is often satanized in today’s American media, just like Russia was, not that long time ago. (It goes with creating “single story”).
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I don’t rightly know what the ethnicity of the author was, to tell the truth. Whoever it was, it was someone who was VERY steeped in Chinese culture and history, though that doesn’t mean much.
It wasn’t a “wish fulfillment” scenario, either. The author did it very calculatedly and, in my view, consciously, to chill readers’ blood. It’s like, just when you think “OK, I can understand what’s going on here. This isn’t so alien” the author just drops this little bomb in as an “oh, and by the way…”
I think they wanted to show up the difference between Chinese and Western views of history. IIRC, blacks weren’t the only groups exterminated. Certain white groups also got nailed.
I’ll see if I can scare it up on Amazon. It’s worth reading, at least the first book.
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Mira:
I chose China because it is not white and it is big enough to do it. China has four times more people than America. In 30 years they will have a noticeable technological edge – they are already producing more engineers. Further, they have a motive: they need the space. By taking over America they could double their living space. America could easily support a billion people – not tomorrow, but over time. There are only 300 million people in America – so 70% of the country is being wasted!
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The only thing I don’t like about this post is that you chose China. I understand why you did it, but I dislike it.
That`s right. It`s us Brazilians who’ll be taking over you ianquis, not the Chinese. 😀
Brazil is the country of the future… and always will be, gawdammit!
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If this were a black fantasy, it would be some African country doing it, not China. Or, at the very least, the Chinese would be putting the blacks above the whites.
I left blacks out of the post because it was not about them and putting them in would take away from the point I was trying to make. I thought the “3% black” was enough to tell those who were curious that blacks would be even more screwed.
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thaddeus blanchette, I wrote:
“white Americans would remain resourceful, resilient people who would, through education, intelligence and determination, overcome the hardships you hope to inflict.”
You responded:
“I doubt it.”
Yeah. Perhaps you doubt it, but there are several centuries of history to support my view. Moreover, there is a substantial period of time on which to base the behavior of the Chinese.
The days of leading nations attempting to conquer each other militarily are gone. Small nations controlled by tyrants will attack each other until they embrace democracy.
Although China and the US are unlikely to become allies like the US and Great Britain, we have a relationship with China that is far better served by trade and cooperation rather than conquest.
You wrote:
“After all, Southern whites are still baaaaawing over the ass-whupping they received in 1865 and that’s nothing like the whupping the States would receive in a Chinese invasion.”
Southern White Still Bawling? Reads like a bad headline. Perhaps it is news to you but the last American born during the Civil War is long dead. The last Civil War veteran died decades and decades ago.
Furthermore, who knows where today’s Southern whites were born? In our mobile society people from all parts of the country land in the former Confederate States.
You confuse an idiotic Rebel Yell with legitimate political and social action. Are the southern states thinking about seceding again?
Anyway, a lot of our leading technical universities, hi-tech industries and NASA stuff are located in the South. In other words, a few yahoos with Confederate flags in the rear windows of their pick-up trucks are minor players in today’s South.
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abagond, you wrote:
“I chose China because it is not white and it is big enough to do it. China has four times more people than America.”
Other than via adoptions, China is NOT going to invade America to house its population.
You wrote:
“In 30 years they will have a noticeable technological edge – they are already producing more engineers.”
There are about 300 million Chinese who have risen to the Chinese middle class, and there are about 1 Billion Chinese who are more or less living in mud huts. As their prosperity continues to rise they will improve their housing and increase the services their economy can support. But they cannot stampede into the US, partly because it would extraordinarily easy to stop them.
You seem to have no understanding of what it takes to project military force all the way around the globe. We can. They can’t. And if they could, we would still have our strength, which means a battle becomes a Pyrrhic disaster.
You wrote:
“Further, they have a motive: they need the space.”
Really? Look at Singapore, Hong Kong and Tokyo. In terms of dense populations and good social order, those places are great. Meanwhile, China has plenty of underutilized land. Just like the US.
You wrote:
“By taking over America they could double their living space. “
In other words, in your wish fulfillment fantasy you are predicting the extermination of whites to make room for the ever increasing numbers of Chinese. But that would kill the Golden Goose. China is become a wealthier nation because it can sell its goods to American buyers. If America were overtaken by China as a warehouse for excess Chinese, the economic power of the US would collapse and take down China with it.
You wrote:
“America could easily support a billion people – not tomorrow, but over time.”
Yes, it’s true. Based on the US population and the area of the country, there are about 10 acres of land for every person.
One amusing angle here is choosing China as the bogeyman. Twenty to 25 years ago the big threat to America was Japan. In the minds of millions it was a sure thing that Japan was rocketing toward total ownership of the US economy. What happened?
Their meteoric growth stalled. The Japanese economy has been in neutral for almost 20 years. None of the terrifying tales of Japanese dominance came true.
You can be absolutely sure that China will soon experience a big slowdown that lasts for years, if not decades.
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I see no_slappz is back, still missing the point and chatting c***.
What a f***ing tool!
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This what-if scenario resembles the back-story of Phillip Francis Nowlan’s 1928 novella Armageddon 2419 A.D.
Anthony Rogers, a young mining engineer and WWI veteran is trapped in a tapped-out Pennsylvania coal mine by a cave-in where he was exploring for radioactive gas. The gas renders him unconscious and preserves him until a shifting of the strata ventilates the shaft. He climbs out and finds no sign of human habitation. The struggle to survive keeps him from going mad. Later he is befriended by a gang of white people hiding in concealed settlements. They inform him that the year is 2419 and that North America has been ruled for the past 300 years by the Han Airlords who swept in from inland China in huge, wingless aircraft and destroyed the cities with ray weapons. The Hans have no use for the Americans, as their labor and agriculture are fully automated, so, having grown decadent, they are content to live in their cities and mount an occasional air raid to keep the dispossessed down.
With technology developed by the gangs and lost-art combat tactics from WWI, Rogers leads them to victory over the Hans. Nowlan puts a Band-Aid on the inherent racism of the concept in the last chapter by writing in the revelation that the Hans were aliens in human form, something like the pod people in Invasion of the Body Snatchers. The aliens assumed the form of the first humans they encountered after landing: Chinese scientists investigating what they supposed to be a meteorite impact in Mongolia.
At the end there is a passage describing Rogers’ 25th-century wife having a burning hatred for the Hans but only fraternity for real Asians and African negroes, “… a noble race, though in my time we had thought them inferior.” Very little, very late, but uncharacteristically liberal for a pulp writer of that time when tales of white bwanas versus cannibals were still being cranked out.
The novella was adapted as a comic strip with Rogers’ first name changed from Anthony to Buck.
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Are you guys really arguing over this? I think this was a good post. Makes one to think. And guys, it is not real. But it could be.
As for the uighurs, they are just one minority terrorized by han chinese in what is called China. There are over 100 minorities in China, most of which are being snuffed out silently.
And for Thomas, uighurs are not rebelling because of islam, but because they are opressed. The fact that some islamists try to hijack their fight for freedom for themselves makes no difference: the cause of that rebellion is ethnic oppression.
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@no slapp: just yeasterday the Chinese government announced that it will invest 400 billion dollars for the innovations at hi tech sector during the next five years. Yeap, slappy. That is 400 000 000 000 US dollars just for the fun of it.
Which brings to mind the situation of the USA. How much US can bring its own money on this table? Eeehh… None. Zip. Zero. It has no money, slappy. Actually it has a debt, like 12 000 000 000 000 dollars. And you know what is really funny about this? Its mostly chinese money 😀
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@sam:
This no_slappz fellow was banned months ago. Hehe. 😀
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Here’s some better “China takes over” sci-fi than the Buck Rogers stuff posted above:
China Mountain Zhang
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@sam, you wrote: Are you guys really arguing over this?
Nope. I was just sharing. I guess I could have shortened the first paragraph of that plot summary to a couple of sentences.
You also wrote: …Chinese government announced that it will invest 400 billion dollars for the innovations at hi tech sector during the next five years.
Yipe. But even if we had the money, I doubt it would be allocated for basic research, which has always been a tough sell politically here. (Though possibly little more than limited-government cussedness stops us from spending 80 million bucks a year that we don’t have on it.) While a democracy is not a completely unpromising ground for long-term projects, our political, social, and educational culture have, for the last half-century or so, worked against it.
Some latter day Steven Jobs is going to have to discover practical cold fusion or something in his or her garage laboratory.
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The comment I made on another post made me think of this one and I realize . . .
We already have a modern day actual Chinese Invasion Experiment — Singapore.
Singapore is NOT China and Singaporeans, even ethnic Chinese Singaporeans do not consider themselves to be part of China at all. But nevertheless, the majority ethnic group is ethnic Chinese, and this is a fairly new development (ie, became the numerical majority ethnic group over a matter of decades in the 19th century).
The aborigines were Orang Asal, which had their own culture and language and known as Orang Asli in Malaysia. Let’s say they are analogous to Native Americans.
Malay people populated the Malay Archipelago centuries, and their settlements eventually outnumbered the aborigines. They would be like the British settlers in North America.
Chinese settled there centuries ago and adopted some of the Malay ways and some intermarried with them. In Singapore they are called the Peranakan. Maybe it would be analogous to those Chinese Americans who trace their origins to the Gold Rush and the Transcontinental railroad and who have become “Americanized” but still different from white people. They never made a majority of the population prior to the British colonial period.
Others came in the early period, including from elsewhere in the Malay / Indonesian archipelago as well as Arab and Indian traders and Portuguese. Maybe analogous to early US immigrants (ie, pre-civil war).
But it changed markedly after the British came. They imported large numbers of Chinese and Indians and others (eg, Bugis in Indonesia) in the 19th century to work on the rubber plantations and tin mines in Malaysia. Singapore grew up as the port city. By 1900, it was over half Chinese.
Malaysia became independent from Britain in 1957, but Singapore broke off from Malaysia in 1963. Including Singapore in Malaysia made ethnic Chinese almost as numerically large as the Malays but with much larger economic clout. Breaking off kept Malaysia majority Malay, but made Singapore 76% Chinese (14% Malay, 7% Indian, 3% other). This is not too dissimilar to the breakdown of the future Meijiang (whites, blacks, Mexicans, others).
Maybe the future Meijiang would not be all of North America, but maybe a strategic chunk of it. It must have been a calculated decision to name the governor of the autonomous region to be Lee Kuan Yew.
Between the 1960s and early 1990s, most immigrants to Singapore came from Malaysia (and could be from any of Malaysia’s ethnic groups, but more often than not Chinese). Singapore has engaged in large scale immigration in the past 2 decades (at least large scale for a place the size of Singapore), bringing in more south Asians (Indians, Pakistani, Bangladeshi), Filipinos, Europeans and Americans and Australians, and of course, people from Hong Kong and Mainland China. This was in an effort to deal with Singapore’s birth rate, the lowest in the world. Non-citizens now make 40% of the “resident” population (with permanent residency or citizenship and living in Singapore) and ethnic Chinese have dropped from 78% to 74% of the population (Malays from 14% to 13%, but Indians have increased, 7-9%; Eurasians are also increasing). It is curious how it will eventually turn out.
Hey, maybe this should have been a post in itself. 😛
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To Sam:
Actually it has a debt, like 12 000 000 000 000 dollars. And you know what is really funny about this? Its mostly chinese money ..
1) The debt is owed entirely is US dollars. Unlike many developing nations the US could literally print itself out of debt, of course that mean the end of the US dollar as a reserve currency but nevertheless, the US central is monetizing debt. (but not calling it that…) and foreign central banks continue to buy US debt.
2) The current debt owed is nearly 16 trillion not 12 trillion dollars.
3) Of that 1.2 trillion is owed to the Chinese central bank, around 7.8% of the US outstanding debt. The majority of the debt is owed internally to various entities with the US include parts of the Federal and US state governments.
As for the uighurs, they are just one minority terrorized by han chinese in what is called China. There are over 100 minorities in China, most of which are being snuffed out silently.
I don’t favor the Chinese national government’s treatment of Uighurs nor Tibetans but the aforementioned populations are growing faster than the Han. Also the Chinese one child policy does not apply towards ethnic minorities in China: “In accordance with PRC’s affirmative action policies towards ethnic minorities, all non-Han ethnic groups are subjected to different laws and are usually allowed to have two children in urban areas, and three or four in rural areas. Han Chinese living in rural areas are also permitted to have two children.”
Click to access Park%20and%20Han%201990.pdf
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/One-child_policy
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Kiwi:
I
Learns what, exactly?
People and groups tend to maximize their own self-interest. It’s turtles all way down my friend.
Here we see yet another example of “Han Privilege” (a generally more precise term than “Chinese Privilege”) being played out.
Have you personally taken any steps to identify, disclaim, and repudiate your own Han Privilege?
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Kiwi
Asian female marriage with white men is hypergamous, because Asian women know a white husband will confer white privilege onto them and their children.
—————————————————————————————————-
Plus for some white men, an Asian females body reminds them of the pre teen boy they want but can’t get legally.
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21
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thwack/ Are you saying that you think Asian women look like little children, and that normal men shouldn’t be attracted to them? Do you think they aren’t womanly enough because they aren’t white western women?? That sounds pretty racist.
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@ Randy
If you believe that, then how did American society, founded on slavery, genocide and racism, become the colour-blind, bootstraptastic meritocracy that you seem to believe in?
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Abagond:
Good question.
I think it’s probably useful to distinguish between goals, myths, and states.
From what I can recall, a number of the founding fathers of the US were steeped in Enlightenment philosophy, and believed in what might be called egalitarian-ish “enlightened self-interest”. Creating a society on such principles would be the goal.
Achieving that goal would be the work of hundreds of years and is understandably always a work in progress.
As is often pointed out here, many people have made the mistake of constructing a noble, historical myth of the past which presumed that the state of society at the time was well aligned with such a goal.
Clearly that was not the case.
However, just because people may have unjustifiably rose-tinted myths doesn’t mean that the current state doesn’t represent significant progress towards the goal.
I would argue that it has. I’m probably biased from having married and built a life with a bona-fide bootstrapper who has numerous bootstrappy friends and family. I live that reality.
So to answer your question of how society transitioned from “genocide” to “bootstraptastic meritocracy” (or perhaps more accurately stated as “having taken great strides towards it”), I would say that it was the slow, difficult, hard-won work of many people who sacrificed greatly for their beliefs.
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Gees , Kiwi , I hate to even break your chops on this (how is your jazz class coming?) but if all you can do is equate getting married and trying to raise a family as spreading their legs to gain white priviledge, you should try raising a family and see how much importance that dynamic takes in real life
This political semantical activist rhetoric really falls apart on the ground when you get down to the real nitty gritty of what maintaining a relationship and raising kids actualy entails…gosh , there are so many more pressing and hard preasures to deal with than any spreading of legs to get white priviledge could bring
Spare me…please
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A Chinese-Canadian’s musing on a similar idea — if Chinese settled North America before Europeans, and Chinese men were the most favoured demographic in this New World.
(http://youtu.be/5LyRdV9kFv8)
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This is a good one, Abagond. A real hidden gem.
How did you know the American Empire would start it’s collapse in 2017?
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@ Abagond
I’m not entirely sure but I think the science fiction series Thaddeus Blanchette described above is Chung Kuo by the British author David Wingrove.
Myself, I thought the series was mediocre and got worse as it went on, but it’s worth at least skimming the first novel (The Middle Kingdom) to see how the future world is set up.
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Hmm..
You can call it a hypothetical thought experiment, but it basically boils down to yellow peril – a trope that’s been used for scapegoating and fearmongering. Chinese, Muslims and Latinos are three groups who have been subjected to this in the US. That’s how you start: you ask people to imagine your country being run over by hordes of Asians/Muslims/Latinos. I’d probably guess this kind of ‘just imagine for a moment if they took over the country’ scenarios were quite popular before stuff like the Chinese exclusion act getting passed.
The fact that the Chinese specifically were selected for this is interesting. Why not select say, Eskimos? Or Bengalis? Neither group has a history of being feared by Americans about being run over.
The fact that you, a blogger who writes so much about race, can’t see this simple point is astounding to me. Your thought experiment is a dreaded scenario that many Americans (non-Chinese Americans I guess) run over in their heads already. After all once Uighurs are brought in to the discussion it’s no longer about hypotheticals.
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