Warning: Some will find this post offensive as it deals with some ugly racist thinking.
Black women are beautiful, but from the American media you would never know it. Maxim, Playboy and Vogue magazines, for example, make their living by showing beautiful women, yet show hardly any black women – as if they came from Sweden or Utah, not New York and Chicago.
Some possible reasons black women are seen as ugly:
- Black women look too much like men. Steve Sailer says it is because they have more muscle mass than women of other races. J Richards of majorityrights.com says it is because their jaws are too big. And so on.
- They look too much like monkeys and gorillas. It has been shown that white people in the back of their minds think of monkeys when they see black people. So you see even Michelle Obama compared to a gorilla.
- It is just a matter of preference. White people prefer the beauty of their own women. How does that make them different than any other race?
- The white lens. Most Americans, even those of colour, are brainwashed to some degree to prefer white beauty because of white control of the media and of the culture in general.
- Racial scripting. Whites are trained to notice blacks who fit their stereotypes. So they notice the Mammies (fat and ugly), the Jezebels (who look like prostitutes) and Sapphires (mean looking) while discounting the graceful and beautiful Sades and Phylicia Rashads of everyday life.
- Flat-out racism. Whites look down on black women so much they do not see them as women, missing their beauty.
- Envy. Deep down whites know that black women are better looking than they let on but do not want to admit it. So when Jennifer Lopez or Angelina Jolie have some feature of a black woman, it is called beautiful, but not when the same thing (only better!) appears on a black woman. Or: when white women lay in the sun to darken their skin it makes them look better. Yet when a black woman is born with skin the very same colour it does not.
Uncle Milton, a white commenter on this blog from California who is intellectually honest, said this about the envy argument:
In my 48 years as a white male in the US, the number of white men seriously attracted to black women seems to be in the distinct minority. … for the most part white guys are attracted to white women (well ok.. a pretty significant minority are attracted to Asian women).
That matches what I have seen in New York: a white man can walk right by a beautiful black woman and not even seem to notice her. Like she is not there. She is on every black man’s radar but not his.
There is a bit of truth in some of these arguments but I think in the end it comes down to flat-out racism, which in turn drives most of the others.
See also:
I would like to comment on reason 2: They look like monkeys and gorillas. Ok, come on now. Monkeys and gorillas are hairy. Black people are not. I think that reason is ridiculous. This is not an attack on you Abagond because I know that is how some whites think. I don’t like to race bash so I won’t say anymore about that. But I noticed the press had a field day attacking Michelle Obama’s physical appearance. The fact that she looks undeniably black, articulate, tall, bodacious must have had something to do with it? A few months ago, there was an uproar about her wearing shorts off of the plane. I mean come on. And the shorts were conservative, almost to her knees. Is her sexuality that threatening? I know many don’t feel this way, but those in power promote these attacks on her.
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There are sick people in this world, shame on Google for not taking down the image.
Why did you put up such a picture Abagond,I understand what you’re trying to prove here, but I’m personally offended by it.Again its not an attack on Michelle per se but black womanhood!
She’s still First Lady of the US, and what are they? Idiotic pathetic wimpy internet tough guys!
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Love this post. I feel that the media plays a big, huge part. As well as upbringing. It strikes me as weird, how some men will not notice a beautiful black woman almost as if they are not viable mates kinda like we’re a different species. Of course there are those who are shy or scared of approachin a black woman because of stereotypes that they have an blah blah blah. But they will notice an average woman of another race. Its really amazing sometimes.
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@ Shani
Black women’s sexuality is always threatening. They have nothing better else to do then to pick on michelle obama and make her out to be some jezebel or angry black woman which is neither.
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For the most part I am on board with this post but the part where you say there is truth in most of these reasons is way off for me. Black women DO NOT look like men. Sure there are some black women are more muscular looking but for the most part, a vast majority of black women do not look like men. There are also a good amount of manly looking white women out there as well. So black women to not hold the crown on having some manly looking females. The other point was that black women look like monkeys and gorillas. Are you kidding me? In no way, could you have possibly written that with a straight pen(face)? Because you, Abagond, are married to a black woman to whom you are very much attracted, i don’t take it as you feeling that way. But for that statement to be there as even a partial truth, to me that is feeding into the blatant racism against black women that is so prevalent. I just feel that there is so much hatred towards black women from every race on this planet, including our own sometimes, black women cannot win, no matter what, because there will always be something thrown in there against us to keep us at the bottom of the pit. 😦
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i am not mad at white men for prefering their own race of women and seeing them as beautiful. that is actually one reason why the are on top. white men are smart enough to know when they uphold white women THEY ARE UPHOLDING THEMSELVES!!! now black men dont seem like they got that memo.
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All due respect Abagond, and I’m sure I’m not the only person, but out of respect for First Lady Michelle Obama, I would like to put in my request to you to change the accompanying picture for this blog post.
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I can’t answer that question!
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its weird about the tanning one…whites will not see your skin tone the same as a tan, but they certainly love to use the “well your skin is the color of a tan” when you say you don’t understand why someone subject themselves to tanning knowing the risks. i wish they’d make up their mind (i know they only did it to divert the argument to something else to avoid answering the question and having to deal with their low self esteem).
i agree with the others about the michelle obama pic, not to mention its scary.
but i think the list is spot on as to why white men don’t like black women, of course its cruel and hateful and once again stereotyping and not seeing the individual and all…
many black men seem to be guilty of #5 sorta like with what Jasmine was saying at the end of her comment. Of course my take on that is that you have men who feel women should be to blame if she had a bad guy for a boyfriend, but men of all races seem to have problems taking responsibility for choosing a bad girl, and instead they blame the whole race of women rather than themselves.
of course thats a whole different issue aside, just an observation though.
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Abagond,
I was also concerned as to why you put up that picture.
Also, in your post, you wrote that white men in NY don’t notice beautiful black women. That may be regional because here in LA, not only do they notice, they flirt, approach and try to get the number. I’ve only been in LA for a year and a half and have to beat them off with a stick.
But living in the southeastern region for most of my life, that is true. It’s almost as if they are conditioned to be that way. They, being heterosexual there is no other explanation.
AO, your post is on point.
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to ao:
abagond has a love hate feeling for bw. he will say something positive about black women then wash it out by saying saying something stupid about bw. and btw, how can black women look manly with all these curves we have? im talking about titties, ass and hips. white women are the ones that are straight up and down like a damn man. but like i said. i aint mad at white boys, what they do is the reason we live under white supremacy. they uphold plain, ugly, cant age worth shit looking like they are 10 years older than they are, make up needing, non cooking, non house cleaning ww, un fertile need medical help to have a baby, i could go on and on but ww are wm mates and they are in the right for not saying a damn thing bad about them even when ww talk about wm like dogs. white boys know what time it is, and they know they come thru ww so why hell would they downgrade her and put ANY women above her?
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it’s different everywhere. I live in London Uk where races mix more than in the U.S. White men date black women regularly, not necessarily lighter ones either. Some are very prominent ones as well like Simon Cowell. I’ve also been to Italy where as a black woman, i’ve had respectful attention from men. Some of my Black friends actually married into warm italian families and were accepted. So perhaps in America, ppl are hung up on colour but in Europe, frankly, most black women get attention from alot of non-black men and go on and marry them.
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ive always found it pointless to go by location when it comes to who likes who, cause everyone has different experiences and stories, it think we are often more observant about what we see in a different location than our normal one because its different, its easy to not pay attention or notice or even look for it in your hometown setting.
every woman is different therefore she is going to produce different results in the same location as someone else…its one of those subjective,can’t really be answered questions.
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Lynette,
I’d always heard that the South was very backwards in terms of interracial mixing. Same in Indiana, but not nearly as much. I strongly agree with you about New York. The first time I visited and thereafter, I couldn’t believe it. Men of all races and types are very forward. But that’s what I love about New York – the variety.
Also, Abagond’s first point about black women looking masculine is valid. I’ve seen different men say that, mostly on T.V. though. As I’ve stated before, there is a show that rates women’s appearance from 1 to 5. The men are hidden but comment on each woman then rates her. It never failed, she would be rated lowest on everything except for her behind. And they would make comments about her looking like a man. That’s t.v., though. Never seen this IRL.
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Ditto on the picture change.
Do Black women really have more muscle mass than other races of women? And isn’t that a good thing? (My family always jokes about me being a little weakling, since my younger sisters have way better looking biceps than my non-existent ones. :-))
I think it depends on region, age, and a whole host of other things. I’m from the Midwest, which is supposed to be really racist (I’m from a big city, so I never noticed it growing up to the extent that someone from, say, Indiana, might.) Men of all races seem to be interested in me, and maybe that’s due to me being young? (I think they say those under 30 are more open to IRRs than other groups.) The ones who approach the most are White guys, and they definitely aren’t shy like they used to be, lol. Here at my school, which is predominantly White and only 2% Black, the White girls are all but called dogs, but the Black ones are considered of a “higher quality”. (It’s a bit hard to explain, but we aren’t seen as “easy” like White girls, so I think guys mentally prepare themselves to bring their “A” game.)
I think the stereotype of Black people as gorillas just persists because it’s been around so long, not because of actual physical similarities. My first time having significant interactions with Asian people was when I came to college, and many of them (most of my Asian friends are Korean) have broad, flat noses and big lips (both stereotypically Black characteristics and attributed to an “ape-like” appearance), and I don’t hear anyone calling them monkeys. That’s just an example, I’ve seen wide noses and bigger lips in all races, but my point is that it’s apparent that those characteristics aren’t unique to Black people.
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Having muscle mass would be considered a good thing if it was more common in white women. I never thought having more muscle mass was considered a bad thing. I thought it was a good thing too.
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Lynette you get a attention because you are so pretty lol Anyways, racism in New York is still bad but as far as affecting romantic relationships, I don’t think so it’s far fetch for Black women.
@ Jasmin are you from Chicago? I’m from Chicago the mighty midwest indeed!
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islandgirl said:
Also, Abagond’s first point about black women looking masculine is valid. I’ve seen different men say that, mostly on T.V. though. As I’ve stated before, there is a show that rates women’s appearance from 1 to 5. The men are hidden but comment on each woman then rates her. It never failed, she would be rated lowest on everything except for her behind. And they would make comments about her looking like a man. That’s t.v., though. Never seen this IRL.
Wow! what show is this?
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Dani,
Yep yep! Southside! 🙂
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ella Says:
it’s different everywhere. I live in London Uk where races mix more than in the U.S. White men date black women regularly, not necessarily lighter ones either. Some are very prominent ones as well like Simon Cowell. I’ve also been to Italy where as a black woman, i’ve had respectful attention from men. Some of my Black friends actually married into warm italian families and were accepted. So perhaps in America, ppl are hung up on colour but in Europe, frankly, most black women get attention from alot of non-black men and go on and marry them.
I agree. Here in the U.K. people date whoever regardless of race! Alas if non-BM find BW unattractive that’s cool with me!
Just means more choice for me! 🙂
Don’t you agree Jasmin, MerriMay, Lynette, islandgirl and dani 😉
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Vindicator, you are so funny! 🙂
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I went out of my way to avoid seeing that disgusting photo-manipulation of the First Lady from I learned of it, only for it to smack me in the face here. I understand why you posted it, as it goes straight to the heart of your post, but it still makes my blood boil.
The fact that they attacked Mrs. Obama’s looks just goes to show that they couldn’t find anything else to use against her, hence the school yard tactics. Much like those cretins who’s debating tactics consist of hair, skin colour, weight and the ubiquitous ‘your mama’.
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I agree with the fellow UKers about what they have said.
Also the Envy part when features that black women have get made fun of but put them on somebody non-black then WOW
Big booty on a black girl ew she’s fat but on a white girl like Kim K or J-Lo “Big butts are so in!” (They were always in Sir Mix A Lot anyone?) then you have non-black women running around for butt implants for that “Brazillian Booty” which is ass implant central
Hairstyles cornrows/canerows on a black woman it’s weird on a white woman Bo Derek “she looks so exotic” many white women get their hair braided to get the “bo derek braids” or white men getting the “david beckham braids”
Big lips on a black woman ew gross, but on a white woman Angelina Jolie “full lips are sexy” white woman start taking fat from their butts and thighs and injecting into their lips with humouros fish like results
And of course there is tanning.
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I definitely agree with number 5. I think many people had issues with the Obamas because they didn’t fit into America’s racial box. Both Barack and Michelle define themselves for themselves. I think more black people need to do that too.
I think it is either racism or socialization. Maybe a combination of both. Can these two things be mutually exclusive?
I live in NYC. I’ve noticed white men (mostly young men) checking me out, but then they almost never approach, because there is still this stigma attached to blackness. But older white men over thirty act like your invisible.I think it is a generational thing. Older white men grew up during the 70’s when race relations weren’t good. We still aren’t to the promise land yet, but its getting better slowly.
Oh, and that pic makes my skin crawl…it is so disrespectful.
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“J Richards of majorityrights.com says it is because their jaws are too big”
I laughed at this. Personally, I feel like many European women have a masculine or chiseled jaw. My exceptions would be Spaniard, Grecian and some Italian women.
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That’s why those reasons are bull because their reasons for finding black women ugly are also what you can find in their own race of women.
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I agree with Aba, flat-out anti-black racism is the core reason behind the idea of black women being seen as ugly by some.
The words “black” and “ugly” should never been used in the same sentence.
And please, Aba, take down that picture. It’s disgusting beyond words and is very disturbing to look at. A lady of Michelle’s prestige has no business having her visage manipulated in such a spiteful way.
Take it down.
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I took it down. The thing is, any picture that forcefully makes my point is going to be racist and offensive.
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As and african american i feel very offended by the statements that have been posted.Steven Sailer needs to get a life he’s a self center uneduacted ass white .Yall are very inmature racist people that why we cant have world peace.
Genine
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The image of Black and White is the poster child of American racism for a reason. I think points 1, 2, and 5 are products of 6 and the denial those brewed gave way to 7. The most obvious and basic candidate for that kind of prejudice is appearence but this is something that affects a woman’s worth far more than it does a man’s, hence Black men are less inclined to straighten their hair and obsess about looks but their intelligence and honor is always questioned.
Its indeed an anti- Black mindset that has become traditional. The image of Shanene (have no clue how to spell that) is kinda funny in relation to the post’s title as Martin Lawrence is sharing the screen with a good looking Black woman.
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Shanaynay in the picture is played by a man (Martin Lawrence) and represents the Sailerite stereotype of black women as looking too much like men, while Tisha Campbell to the left is a true black woman, who is a million miles away from looking like a man.
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The woman on the left is actually Pam played by Tichina Arnold, also a beautiful black woman.
Thanks for changing that awful pic Abagond.
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Yeah, Tisha Campbell is actually Gina, last I saw she was on that god awful “let’s all be beige and play it safe” show My Wife and Kids.
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Tisha*
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I find black women beautiful. From what I can see, albeit small pics, of the various posters on here, you ladies appear to have amazing skin and lovely skin tones. Damn that Coco Chanel! When she came back from her trip, having tanned skin was considered to be the rage because she did it. What about other people of color who were born with it? They were way ahead of their times it seems.
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Yup, that’s just it Leigh. When white people tan their skin they are supposedly making themselves more beautiful by browning up. But naturally brown people are ugly? wow
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The show is called “Battle of the Bods”. I will warn you that it is very kinda sexist and cheesy. Someone at work told me about it because she noticed how black women were viewed.
Yes, Vindicator. I agree.lol
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@AO:
You’re right. During the summer up here in the middle of Canada, I would see countless white people tanning themselves rubbing tanning oil on their bodies or going to one of those places that offer that sickly orange spray-on tan. Why? Because they desire that brown skin.
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@ MerriMay: Thanks for the correction.
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I think that black women are seen as unattractive to certain silly people because they are the complete opposite threat to the idal of white beauty. Somehow i have noticed that if the features are similar eg. tan, big butt, lips e.t.c on a lighter or white woman then it is more praised. I have been told i look similar in features to some white women such as jessica alba. But I don’t think i am considered as beautiful or acknowledged as much because i am not white.
I also find it funny that black men are seen as more attractive to more people than black women. Personally i don’t see that. Both black men and women can be attractive. some how if a black man does not look conventionally attractive ie. akon and lil wayne, women still say they are sexy.
growing up as a mixed race girl with a white mum i still looked up to black women like en vogue and thought they were beautiful.
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also abagond I think that as black man it would be good for you to make more topics related to black men rather the women. For instance how they are stereotypically perceived eg. the brute, sex god, sporty e.t.c.. Also you haven’t got a topic on black men who like white women or such interracial relationships. I think it is interesting that the black male, white female relationship is the least accepted of all.
Its ironic that less marriages occur between white men and black women, when people (black parents, white people, black women) are generally more accepting of this unionship.
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Deep down whites know that black women are better looking but do not want to admit it. (point #7)
I hope you mean that black women are actually more beautiful in reality than what society would have you believe rather than black women are more beautiful than other women. All women (and men and everyone else) are beautiful, white women and lighter skinned women have an unfair advantage due to social conditioning but they are no more or less beautiful than black women. You’re uplifting no one by demeaning a different group of people. You just end up back where you started.
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When I first read this, I was initially irritated by the your claim that there was “truth” in all ur reasons. I found it offensive that a bm would claim that bw looked masculine, and resembled monkeys. Then I remembered watching a vid on another blog of 50 cent doing a sex scene with a Latina-looking woman, and thinking to myself “why would she want to be anywhere near that ape!” So as much as bw look like apes, so do bm. As for bw looking masculine…well other races of women are masculine looking as well depending on who you ask, so its all relative. Some people happen to be attracted to manish ape looking women, some aren’t. Who really cares either way.
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this is depressing and makes me anxious
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“he will say something positive about black women then wash it out by saying saying something stupid about bw. ”
yeah abagond, no offense but what’s up with the bitter comments? what’s your deal, you used to be nice and enjoyable on your blog now you sound crazy…like that comment you made about black women’s hair awhile ago
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i apologize abagond for the last comment
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one thing that irritates me though is seeing these black male actors (eddie murphy and that’ norbit nonsense) always portrayed ugly, ghetto, skanky black females, its really irritating. now this new foolishness “skank robbers,” give me a break please…
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@Peanut Abagond has done post about black male sterotypes before.
——————————————–
The whole black woman being seen as masculine has gone on for ages epsepcially dark skinned women. Just look at the old racist cartoons like “Scrub mama with a boogie beat” or something along those lines. In the cartoon the dark skinned black woman was a mammy and was voiced by a man whilst the lighter skin was attractive voice by a woman but it was implied that she was a ho(Jezebel)
So now you have men today dressing up as women playing those sterotypical mammy/jezebel/ sapphire roles in films like
Big Momma House,Tyler Perry’s Madea, Shnaynay, Rasputia from Norbit.
Then you have SOME idiots of all races including SOME Black men using those examples from the films and TV show to say why they don’t like black women. “A lot of black women are like Rasputia.”
Oh so a lot of us are like Eddie Murphy in a fat suit? Really? Please. LOL
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YOu just lost a reader and a future doctor who was going to try to elp the black community.
I am marrying OUT of the black community. Not only have I not found this to be the case in my own life, but also not the case in the majority of black women whom I know.
It benefits black women very little to stay true to the black community especially when our beauty is attacked by the men who we were created for.
I will take my beauty, youth, intelligence, and affection and give it to a white man!
Peace.
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ANONYMIOUS,
YOUR COMMENT #45 IS EXACTLY WHAT I’M THINKING SINCE A COUPLE MONTHS NOW!
I AGREE WITH EVERY WORD YOU SAID AND I ALSO FOUND VERY DISTURBING THE FACT THAT MOST OF POST ON BLACK WOMEN, ABA DOES, IT’S ALWAYS IN STEROTYPICAL WAY AND I NEVER READ SOMTEHING ABOUT BLACK MEN! THERE ARE PLENTY TO SAY LOL!
About the post as always I disagree with some of those so-called truths, should I say all.
As long the woman is beautiful, men don’t care about the skin color or the race….
To me it’s some Black (men) who think that black women are not as beautiful as the non-black ones, the same goes with hair and skin, they(black folks) are the ones always talking about that.
Again I have been surrounded and still is by non*black person, always telling me how black women are gorgeous, sensual and very feminine.
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@ Jessica, Jasmine, Nubiah Bella, etc:
MY SINCERE AND VERY HUMBLE APOLOGIES!!!!
There is NO NO WAY that I think black women look mannish or apish!! Far from it. To me black women IN GENERAL are the most beautiful women on earth. So when people say they are ugly or the media makes them seem like it, it makes me wonder why.
When I wrote that there was some truth in ALL of the arguments, that was a mistake. I should have said SOME. Since I wrote it in a rush – I was out most of the day and then my sons needed to use the computer for their homework – I did not stop and think that ALL meant I agreed with Steve Sailer, etc. As a practice I reread my posts four or five times before I let them stand. I did not have time for that this time. Again, my mistake.
I do NOT agree with Steve Sailer or J Richards – they are just racist jerks trying to dress up their racism as science. If anything black women IN GENERAL have a more womanly shape than most other women. The picture at the top of the post shows how far off the “black women look like men” belief is.
White people think thick lips make you look like a monkey – well, take a look at a monkey sometime! They barely even have lips!!! Thick lips are something that sets man off from the apes. But of course not many white people are going to notice that. Instead they just ASSUME the opposite to be true. Why is that? The same goes for broad noses. Etc.
Again, my humble apologies. If you read more widely in my blog I think you will find that I do not think anything close to #1 and #2.
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Abagond appreciates the beauty of black women in all it’s diversity, he celebrates it, that’s why I’m here. He doesn’t do so by bashing other races because its not about them.
What’s the point of being sidetracked by topics on black men, unless its as their role in black womens’ lives? It wouldn’t take long to descend into drugs,gangs incarcerations, dead-beat dads etc, pretty negative stereotypes of black men etc I don’t think that black men feel alienated here, after all most of them are with black women anyway.
How many sites out there do what he does, honestly?? This not that kind of forum.
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It’s strange when White people have historically compared us to monkeys when
they share same characteristics as monkeys as well such as
1. thin lips
2. short
3.straight hair
WHEN WAS THE LAST TIME ANY ONE OF US SAW A MONKEY WITH AN AFRO???
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I FOR ONE ABAGOND, APPRECIATE YOUR BLOG. I understand what you are trying to say, and you are one brother who constantly gives us the “thumbs up.” Thanks for reminding me that i am beautiful too.
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YOu just lost a reader and a future doctor who was going to try to elp the black community.
I am marrying OUT of the black community. Not only have I not found this to be the case in my own life, but also not the case in the majority of black women whom I know.
It benefits black women very little to stay true to the black community especially when our beauty is attacked by the men who we were created for.
I will take my beauty, youth, intelligence, and affection and give it to a white man!
Peace.
:O
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@ Jessica
YOu just lost a reader and a future doctor who was going to try to elp the black community.
I am marrying OUT of the black community. Not only have I not found this to be the case in my own life, but also not the case in the majority of black women whom I know.
It benefits black women very little to stay true to the black community especially when our beauty is attacked by the men who we were created for.
I will take my beauty, youth, intelligence, and affection and give it to a white man!
Peace.
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I think you kind of missed the point these views were created by white people all these sterotypes and other stuff. What some people are commenting on is that white people aren’t the ones dressed up in those mammy outfits but black men but some white people still belive them
Anyway you kind of sound like a troll and if you are see yourself out of the blog
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u know what i’ve always wondered about the racist white folks who call bp monkeys? why is throughout history, there has been more mixing probably between white males and black females, the new world, lations were a blend of european males and females mixing with blacks, in african you’ve got whole islands of africans who are essentially the equivalent of creoles in america due to french colonizers sleeping with mostly black females, you’ve got colored populations throughout s.africa, you’ev got louisiana creoles in the US and the fact that most black americans are more likely to be mixed with european than native american and i can attest to that as I do have european ancestry and it shows through in many of us. so…if bp are monkey’s then what does it say about these racist people who mixed with us “monkies?” if that were true then that would be beastiality, you see what i’m saying, it doesn’t make any damn sense
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That’s just it Peanut. The whole concept of racism is based on tons of contradictions and stuff that defies logic. 😦
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I think this blog is taking an ugly turn. Too much negativity for me.
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Black people do not look like primates in any way. The mere suggestion that they do is pure, spiteful anti-black racism. Point blank.
A refreshingly honest comment above that said that seeing a black man (rapper/actor 50 Cent, in this case) simulate sex with a mixed-race Brazilian woman brought out the subconscious idea of “apes” shows you how unaccepted the union of black men with non-black women is. That poster, and many others, see non-black (or racially ambigious black) women with black men as “stepping down”. Very interesting.
All in all, I agree with Nubiah and the other poster, why not explore how the effects of negrophobia affect how black men are viewed in interracial relationships? That OKCupid survey opened my eyes into seeing that black men are not the commodity that I had led to believe they were.
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OneBrownSnowPea says,
I live in NYC. I’ve noticed white men (mostly young men) checking me out, but then they almost never approach, because there is still this stigma attached to blackness. But older white men over thirty act like your invisible.I think it is a generational thing. Older white men grew up during the 70’s when race relations weren’t good. We still aren’t to the promise land
yet, but its getting better slowly.
laromana says,
OneBrownSnowPea,
This is a FACT that I’ve observed firsthand. I was really surprised by how MOST younger WM (20’s-early 30’s) view BW in a MORE POSITIVE/LESS RACIST way than MOST OLDER WM.
Chanya says:
I laughed at this. Personally, I feel like many European women have a masculine or chiseled jaw. My exceptions would be Spaniard, Grecian and some Italian women.
laromana says,
The LIE/MYTH/STEREOTYPE that BW have “masculine jawlines” has NO basis in FACT. If you look at pics of many White actresses/supermodels it’s CLEAR that they are the ones who have MASCULINE JAWLINES.
ANTI-BW RACISM/HATE (especially in America) is the real reason that all of these LIES/MYTHS/STEREOTYPES persist.
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laromana says,
The LIE/MYTH/STEREOTYPE that BW have “masculine jawlines” has NO basis in FACT. If you look at pics of many White actresses/supermodels it’s CLEAR that they are the ones who have MASCULINE JAWLINES.
I totally agree with your statment above,
I have plenty non-black women, both face and body looking masculine
the likeLady Gaga, kate Moss, Angelina jolie (I know plenty will disagree with this one, Cameroon Diaz, Heidi Klum,Madonna, Jennifer Aniston and the list can be (very)long……..
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Abagond:
You’ve done several blogs on why White men (at least the US ones) are not attracted to/married to Black women.
What about doing a blog on White men like Brian, who is head over heels in love with his Black wife, Ericka Dunlap.
http://www.erickadunlap.net/WeddingBrideandGroom.html
They just finished 3rd on the Amazing Race and I can honestly say that he appears to be a patient man. For anyone who watched the Amazing Race, Ericka was a handful, to say the least!
Yes only a few White American men marry Black women, but I believe in looking at the positive instead of emphasizing the negative.
In a country which is still coming out of a Jim Crow past, it is not surprising that racial barriers are still up in the marriage arena. I am sure things will change as Black women attend predominantly White institutions of higher learning and workplaces.
Look at the stats for the UK – very encouraging for Black women.
http://www.statistics.gov.uk/CCI/nugget.asp?ID=1090&Pos=3&ColRank=1&Rank=176
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Most whites who go tanning do that because they want a olive skin tone like Mediterranean whites not because they want to be black. I’ve seen some pretty blk girls but on average they are not as good looking as other races of women. Most of the pretty black girls have a significant percentage of European ancestry as well. I’ve rarely ever seen an African woman who was attractive. Also, pure BW don’t have the diverse looks that pure WW have. In fact, of all the races of women , ww have the most diverse looks.
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I agree with the person who said that morphing the First Lady’s face is a playground antic because there is nothing else they could criticize. They can’t criticize her intelligence because she’s smart,went to Harvard, etc. She has a great body so the only thing left was her face. Men, in general, do this. Ladies, have a guy ever try to talk to you and you turn him down, and then he yells, “You ain’t all that anyway.” I believe this is done out of weakness. The First Lady threatens white supremacy, especially where it concerns women, so therefore she was attacked.
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Pat,
I respect your opinion, but now I am going to give you mine. I assume that you live here in America. Africa is the most diverse continent. I am quite sure you are aware that the media shows you what they want you to see. There are white people who I know of who used to think black people look a certain way because that’s all the media shows. Once they traveled outside of the US, they were shocked at the many different looks that black people have, and of course, questioned their race simply because black people are only supposed to look a certain way, right? Black Americans are only about 13% of the population in America, which means we are only a small fraction of all the black people worldwide, so if you live here in America, then of course you are going to assume that all black people look the same because that is all you are exposed to.
Pat, I don’t want you to think I am attacking you because I am not. It just irks me when people think that black people only look a certain way.
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I don’t think “black” (many shades) women should be worried about what other people think. I don’t think First Lady Obama is worried. Also its quite interesting to see how some people are so obsessed with people that they claim are not attractive. If I thought other women looked better I’d devote a site to them instead of visiting Abagond’s. I think it says a lot that the most power these people assert are internet rantings. Hopefully in the real world “black” women (& men) just go where they are appreciated, and live happy lives 🙂
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I have read a number of these posts but not all due to time constraints but I must respond to Pat (post 69). I take particular exception to “I’ve rarely ever seen an African woman who was attractive”. This would be one of the most stupid statements I have ever read on this subject! Beauty is in the eye of the beholder! I have seen many, many, beautiful African women, from the African continent, African-American, African-Carribean etc, etc. Just click on the link “Black Beauty of the Day” and you will see myriads of very, very beautiful African and African decent women. I am married to a beautiful girl from North Africa (I am “white Australian”). My wife is beautiful BECAUSE SHE IS BLACK, not in spite of it. My wife is tall, slim, very dark and has, of course, African features. This is what makes her so beautiful! To many “white” people compare the looks of different races to the “white race”. This is crass stupidity. All races are beautiful in their own way. Learn to appreciate those individualities and beauties and you will have a much better outlook.
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Thank you, Graham. I believe to that people to tend to judge black women’s beauty in comparison to eurocentric standards, and if she is not close,then she is not considered attractive, even if she may be attractive in her own right.
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Pat’s post is a prime example of white supremacist thinking. Nonblack men in general along with nonblack women are truly threatened by Black womens’ beauty and grace. They had to resort to pseudoscience and ad hominem attacks in order to assure their insecure, fragile egos
Abagond,
Don’t stop what you are doing. Keep up the good work and don’t let the haters run you down.
La Reyna
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“Most whites who go tanning do that because they want a olive skin tone like Mediterranean whites not because they want to be black.”
oh really, cause i went to a mostly white school and i can’t tell you how many white females went tanning and actually came out DARKER, yes darker than I ( a black woman. I would also like to add that it doesn’t matter if someone was trying to look “mediterranean” although there are plenty of black women who are the same color as the “mediteranean,” women, the point is if they’re browning their skin to get darker, then obviously light skin isn’t the only and ultimate form of beauty and obviously brown can be beautiful too. Also, africans as a group are the most genetically diverse group on the planet, look it up. In terms of african women being ugly, you haven’t been around very many african women then, that’s all i have to say.
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@Pat:
Most whites who go tanning do that because they want a olive skin tone like Mediterranean whites not because they want to be black.
It’s a skin color most white people weren’t born with naturally so they go out of their way to achieve that sun tanned appearance. I’ve heard so many white people where I’m from saying they don’t like looking pasty white (their words not mine) and that brown skin looks healthier.
I’ve seen some pretty blk girls but on average they are not as good looking as other races of women. Most of the pretty black girls have a significant percentage of European ancestry as well. I’ve rarely ever seen an African woman who was attractive.
African women are like any other women. They can be quite beautiful and not-so-beautiful. White people do not have a monopoly on attractiveness.
Also, pure BW don’t have the diverse looks that pure WW have. In fact, of all the races of women , ww have the most diverse looks.
BW have quite the range of looks. As Shani mentioned earlier, the media only portrays stereotypical images they want you to see so you grow accustomed to seeing them. You many think BW are not diverse in appearance, but that is far from the reality.
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Ok, I may step on some toes, but I am going to say this anyway and hopefully, a mature discussion will develop out of it.
I believe that the one drop rule has screwed up the minds of black and white people in the USA. Generally speaking, black people don’t appreciate their own unique beauty. Even though, the one drop rule was put in place because of white supremacy, I believe that if black people stop enforcing it, then black people’s stock would rise. Anybody can’t be white, even if they are part white; anybody can’t be Asian, but anybody can be black even if they have more of another race in them. Why is that? Our race shouldn’t be the dumping ground. This makes it easier to put mixed raced women in place of black beauty and makes the black woman invisible and then call black women ugly. I know some of you may already be aware of this.
Now for those who may be thinking that well white people will see mixed raced people of the black and white union as black, well you can’t really control what they think, the same way they shouldn’t be able to control how we think. And furthermore I just cringe when some black people get upset when a mixed race person doesn’t identify as black. I believe that they should be able to choose to identify as they please and not have a certain race forced upon them.
Why do you think it is so easy for the media to hype Halle B as the most beautiful black woman even though she is mixed. She is beautiful, but she is not black; she is mixed.
I hope I didn’t get too far off topic.LOL
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Pat, I beg to differ. I believe that is a stereotype some white people hold, that all black people look alike. This is not only racist but lacks so much logic. Mostly, everybody is mixed to a certain degree so there is no such thing as a “pure ww” or even a “pure bw”. And who do you consider African? Because guess what? Pure “Africans” can have skin as light as a WW.
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There are good looking people who fit into every racial bracket, the reality is we belong to the same freakin’ species so no matter how decent one tries to make oneself seem, dismissing an entire group as unattractive thinly veils ones insecurity, frustration and disdain.
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i know abbi loves black women. he thinks the world of us but he knows me and he knows im going to put him in check from time to time.
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Why do people like Pat take such a narrow view of black women? Every ethnicity/race has beautiful and average women. Beauty does not belong to a certain group.
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I’m with Shani, but happen to think that White Supremacy runs deeper and harder than any one person can speak to. There are clear answers to the problem, but the healing has to begin.
I put off discussing this topic in need of better clarification because I, like many others, was deeply troubled by this piece. I didn’t understand the point of talking to black beauty/pride without talking to the reasons behind the distinction between black women and every other woman on the planet. When the author says, “I don’t understand how white people can pass a beautiful black woman everyday and not…” I had to shake my head and questioned why I was reading this blog to begin with.
Personally I think it goes beyond black women being ignored, or not considered and many times enters into harassment and vicious attacks. Anyone who’s gotten on Craigslist lately and typed in “black women” would know what I’m talking about. There are people out there who believe black women don’t deserve love and claim it’s for the reasons mentioned in this blog. But I personally don’t get the sense that what they’re talking about has anything to do with black women being truly ugly.
I think most white men are taught to feel bad about their attraction to black women at such an early age, that later can’t seem to get over their own self hate and racism. I’ve noticed the ones that “just can’t seem to help themselves” throwing their attraction off as “strange” or “a fetish”. It’s as though they suppressed it to such a degree that it becomes hazardous to their health. Older white men are probably the worst. Waiting their entire lives, and after getting a financial foot into the ground and realizing the world doesn’t care what they deny themselves, they question why they’ve “denied themselves the experience”. The younger ones try to isolate their fetish to Halle, or Beyonce, and claim they are different black women. And the media helps them by going with their black pick of the year and denying the rest movie roles and opportunities.
I would also note that most of my experiences with “ugly black women” ideals have usually come from white women, not men. It was the other girls that were vicious and harassing in my early years growing up- claiming I didn’t bath, my hair was greasy, and that my teeth reminded them of a horse- not the men! I wouldn’t say it had anything to do with truth telling or observations, but some deep seeded hatred they had for me for being black and being different from them. The boys didn’t care, they weren’t supposed to notice black women.
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Mia,
I can definitely relate to what you said. I’ve had experiences (though in the minority) where a white person (usually male) took one look at me and immediately hated me. I’ve never really had a problem with white females. Even though most white men that I come in contact with are very nice to me, I couldn’t help but wonder at the time, why did those few men act like they hated me just by the mere sight of me. I don’t want to come up with vain reasons, because as you said I think it goes far deeper than physical appearance.
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why aren’t my comments posting? abagond, i’m sorry i made bitter comments about you being jealous and bitter
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Shani,
A few years back I went to a birthday party for a friend’s boss, and he invited some older white couples, who supposedly had too much to drink. At one point in the night most of us ladies were on the dance floor and these women started bumping into me with their chest. The party ended and these women were laughing claiming their “tits were bigger than mine” while their husbands apologized to me for their wives and their drunken behavior. I was the only black person there, and these were soccer moms of kids I knew from high school. I’m quite certain the points made in this blog were apart of their drunken jokes, but these points were a mere reinforcement of why I was not “pretty enough”, or worthy men’s attention, and why I deserved to be disrespected. Don’t get me wrong there are some good people out there, but the bad ones you never forget.
I didn’t mean to imply that white men weren’t just as aggressively hateful, because they can be. It has nothing to do with black women’s looks or any of the points listed in this blog; and anyone claiming there could be “some” truth to “some” of the points and “not all” has some soul searching to do. IMO, Society uses black women to put aside some deep psychological issues with self-worth and they project those insecurities on black women hoping we won’t see through the crap. And how can we? Alot of times we’re trying to keep it together and keep moving on.
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yeah most white males are okay, in my experience the worst that has happened is 1. simply being ignored like you’re wallpaper, this happened recently when this white guy acknowledged all my white girlfriends and seem to not see me or something (i had known this guy since HS, mind you) so that was rude
2. This white man who i was talking to got pissed cuz i said he said something racist, then he accussed me of being racist cuz i said what he said was racist… stuff like that is what irks me more than anything, but other than that
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this is why i need to stay off the internet cuz it just makes me bitter and angry. I can’t take all the venom directed at bw anymore, i really can’t. it depresses me, it really saddens me. Now i am ultra sensitive to the stuff people do to bw and sometimes its just depressing. its sad the way bw aren’t given any resepect, it really is. I don’t expect everyone to like or even be attracted to us…but dag, don’t say we’re ugly naturally, we’re not. sometimes i think bw are cursed or something, why is everything negative always put on us? we can’t win, no matter what we do…dag. I’m so sick of being depicted as the ugly black girl or the best, mammy friend to the white girl, its almost like this is being projected into reality. I swear, i think my friends think i’m a mammy.
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i agree with some of what abagond says but don’t agree how it came out. as far as white men passing black women, that’s not necessarily true because there are white men who do talk to beautiful women so you’ll be amazed. and i hate the whole black women looking like gorillas and whatnot. that rubbed me the wrong way because black women are beautiful. it seems that no matter what we say there are going to be ignorant, racist people thinking black women are ugly and nobody wants them because of our lips, bodies, skin, attitude, etc. but what hurts the most that it comes from your own people. and michelle is a beautiful woman who represents a classy black women, not the ones the media and sometimes black people love to glorify. i know that you care about black women abagond but it seems the way you said it just came off as if black women are supposed to be bad people that no one wants to be around. why can’t black women can be look as human beings and not some damn animals? we have feelings like everybody else but it seems a lot of people don’t care about that. why not get to know us before you judge us as if we’re all the same? because we’re not.
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“we have feelings like everybody else but it seems a lot of people don’t care about that. ”
i know i am so sick of people treating us any old way and acting like we’re not humans or something. if one more non-black male asks what color it is down there…i’m going to explode. i can’t take it.what do people want us to do, stay in a house in a corner and die or what??? does our mere presence bother people that much? damn sometimes i wonder how different my life would be if i wasn’t a bw.
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i am curious, i would like to know has anyone ever had anything positive said to them as it pertains to their being a black woman? has anyone ever genuinely felt that they’re black womanliness was being praised and not simply just tolerated?? i’ve had some “haha,” moments as a black woman, but never and i mean never in my life has non-black person or even a black male these days praised my black womanliness, its always either been ignored or tolerated, so i’d like to know.
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Peanut,
To anwser your question, all races have complimented by looks. I wear my hair natural and I get mostly compliments from white people. Also when I was living in SC, I went to this Mary Kay party where I was the only black woman and all the other women complimented my lips as we were trying on lipstick, but those compliments were just that, compliments. They never related it to me being black, but that should be a good thing, right? A woman wants to be seen as desirable because she’s desirable, not because she’s of a certain race. And no black woman wants to hear, “Oh you’re pretty for a black girl.”
To Mia,
What happened to you on the dance floor should have given you an ego boost. The sight of you alone obviously brought out their insecurities that they felt the need to that. Oh and their husbands were probably checking you out.
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Mia said:
“. It has nothing to do with black women’s looks or any of the points listed in this blog; and anyone claiming there could be “some” truth to “some” of the points and “not all” has some soul searching to do. IMO, Society uses black women to put aside some deep psychological issues with self-worth and they project those insecurities on black women …”
And that has nothing to do with racism or even envy?
Racism grew out of the abusive relationship that whites had (and still have to a lesser degree) with blacks. One of the thought patterns of an abusive relationship – and which is still there in white thinking – is to make yourself feel good by tearing others down – MOST ESPECIALLY when you fear they are better than you.
Racism is a self-delusional thought pattern whites use to feel good about themselves. All this stuff about gorillas and mannish black women comes out of their sick, ugly past. It has nothing to do with how black women truly are and everything to do with a sickness in the souls of white people.
I used to think racism was a matter of ignorance or a bad upbringing. It is worse than that. More here:
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Instead of focusing on White men how about doing a blog about what MEN like in Black women?
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White men are not the only dating choices for Black women.
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Pat Says:
“Most whites who go tanning do that because they want a olive skin tone like Mediterranean whites not because they want to be black.”
True enough!
Pat Says:
“I’ve seen some pretty blk girls but on average they are not as good looking as other races of women. Most of the pretty black girls have a significant percentage of European ancestry as well.”
You know this how exactly!? Have you ever been to Africa!
Pat Says:
“I’ve rarely ever seen an African woman who was attractive. Also, pure BW don’t have the diverse looks that pure WW have. In fact, of all the races of women , ww have the most diverse looks.”
That’s questionable. Also white people have far less genetic diversity than black people!
Have you seen slavic women. Moat of them look the same!
Your just using the stereotype of all non-whites look alike! Pathetic!
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Abagond says:
“And that has nothing to do with racism or even envy?
Racism is a self-delusional thought pattern whites use to feel good about themselves. All this stuff about gorillas and mannish black women comes out of their sick, ugly past. It has nothing to do with how black women truly are and everything to do with a sickness in the souls of white people.”
I do agree with this, and I’m not challenging that racism is the root of it all. But once again I was addressing the confusing way in which the blog asserted “Why black women are seen as ugly.” Racism and envy? Sure, why not? I understand you had some difficulties with this piece, but when I initially read it, I wasn’t hearing your point and was distracted by the points you were making about black women’s features. I was really confused, even angry, and found myself interjecting things into the blog that weren’t there- things from my past, present, etc.
I agree with some of the conclusions Shani came to, but have come to a defensive place about black women embracing their beauty. That’s not easy when racism dresses itself up in the form of teachers, friends, co-workers, bosses, people who feel they care about you.
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may i just point of that as a brown skinned mixed black person that we do not get any more special treatment by white people. I was teased by both white boys are girls and when i was younger now and then. I have since got braces and my hair and skin is better, so i now look better.
However i have an incling that whilst on the surface the teasing might seem like it could be directed to anyone, that i was scapegoated because i’m not white, as i was always felt that people took more notice of me. Black people have always been more positive about my looks and complimented me. However white people and a couple of mixed boys that act white have not been so kind in the past.
I think because i am not a typical cookie cutter beauty or look plain like gwyneth paltrow that has made me a threat to some. I have girls turn from saying they think i’m pretty, to putting me down, which shows jealousy must have been involved.
Some of the most beautiful women like jessica alba, angelina jolie, eva mendes and meagan good have said they have been teased for their looks in the past. But what do these women have in common non look like kate hudson or gwyneth paltrow. they are different beauties that stand out more, which is perhaps why they have been teased.
Despite the bullying in the past i am still proud that I stand out in a crowd and have had enough people tell me that i am attractive that i can ignore silly little insults.
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mia- I am however suprised that you have had most bad experiences just with white women. the taunts i have had in the past started with a white guy. as much as people say boys are less bitchy, they can be pretty cruel when it comes to looks. Black men have always been kinder about my looks and i have a few white men call me attractive/beautiful so everyone is different. But i think some white boys in the past have put me down to hide any audacity that they could be attracted to a black girl.
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I know I may receive alot of flack for this, so I will just say it. In my opinion, it doesn’t matter to me what people think of me. I know who my creator is and as long as I am beautiful to myself and to my husband, that’s all that matters. I can deal with other races saying that Black women ( to them) aren’t attractive. What BOTHERS me is these SO CALLED entertainers that demean Black women on a daily basis, and these women are just as much to blame. We should not look for the world to accept or validate us. Stop supporting these rappers/singers with these demeaning lyrics. That’s not ART. Boycott BET, HELL MTV too. Stop supporting BLACK MARKET, BOOTLEG, whatever you want to call it. We must set better examples for ourselves. I know I got off subject here, but I’m sick of people complaining. We were a people who stood for something, and now, we talk about, but we don’t do anything about it.–But back to the topic at hand here, It’s just more hurtful coming from a Black man, when he demeans a Black woman. For that Black man who does that, I feel sorry for you. WE MUST EMBRACE OURSELVES, OUR BEAUTY, AND OUR CHARACTER. Accept who you are, stop with the blue contact, SLUTTY BLOND WEAVES. Stop it. Be the best Black woman you can be, take care of yourself, treat yourself well, nurture your soul, and carry yourself with the highest esteem. Then no, one can’t help but to notice you. Everyone notices a glowing woman.
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Marine2010,
I co-sign your comment #99 and like u I would also prefer a post about what Men like in Black Women.
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nubiahbella Says:
Marine2010,
I co-sign your comment #99 and like u I would also prefer a post about what Men like in Black Women.
——————————————–
I’m getting a little depressed with all this ugly Black women this and what they don’t like about us that. Tell me something good, tell me how ya like it yeah!
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HERE YA GO!
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I know I may receive alot of flack for this, so I will just say it. In my opinion, it doesn’t matter to me what people think of me. I know who my creator is and as long as I am beautiful to myself and to my husband, that’s all that matters.
Thank you Phoenix. I guess because I’m an “oldhead,” I don’t really care what people think about me. God loves and accepts me, and that’s all that matters.
As for black women looking like men — I always thought that Uma Thurman, horseface Sarah Jessica Parker, and Darryl Hannah are mannish-looking but people say they are beautiful because they are blonde. And there are plenty of monkey-looking white people (Joe Piscipo, the late George Burns), etc.
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uplifting video about black women.
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The author isn’t saying BW look like monkeys. He is saying that’s how white people see them.
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Are y’all really that dumb?
Who cares what White people think, especially if it’s negative. Let’s talk love and romance for a chance.
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I Have to agree….But number 7 should have been number 1.
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I’ve seen plenty of masculine looking White, Asian and Hispanic women. That’s just the way it is, there’s masculine and feminine features in women of all races. We all don’t have to look either way. Some men love masculine looking women.
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I think black women should stop trying to be accepted by others and start living to please themselves. You can’t change people’s opinions of you. All you should aim to do is be attractive to yourself, only then you will be happy.
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Lies, lies, and more lies. In fact the opposite is true: White men find Black women extremely attractive but many are racist and will not seriously date a Black woman because of racism and nothing else. I am a Black woman and I constantly get approached by White men. It is always done in a very private way, not at all like the way a Black man would approach me. There are many in our society who want Black women to “think” that White men are not attracted to them: There seems to be a vested interest in manipulating the self -esteem of Black women. We should ask ourselves why. I encourage all sisters everywhere to not fall for this because it is just racism at work. Somebody has to be on bottom and apparently many have convinced themselves that that somebody should be us. Business as usual.
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Chris says,
Lies, lies, and more lies. In fact the opposite is true: White men find Black women extremely attractive but many are racist and will not seriously date a Black woman because of racism and nothing else. I am a Black woman and I constantly get approached by White men.
laromana says,
I agree, from personal experience, that this is true but I feel that ANTI-BW RACIST WM/NON-BM who “are ATTRACTED to BW” but won’t SERIOUSLY DATE and/or MARRY them are an INSULT to the HUMANITY, DIGNITY, and FEMININITY of BW.
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I am late to the party but I can’t help but wonder something. I’ve read where white guys online say that their fathers told them to never mess with a black woman for whatever reason. My question has always been, if we are so ugly, and naturally repulsive, why is a warning required??
You warn your kids agains poisonous berries because, hell, they are attractive. You don’t have to warn them not to eat crap (if you know what I mean) unless they are “special.” Jus’ saying. There’s just something between the lines there.
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Yolanda said “You warn your kids agains poisonous berries because, hell, they are attractive. You don’t have to warn them not to eat crap (if you know what I mean) unless they are “special.” Jus’ saying. There’s just something between the lines there.”
I agree. If we are so repulsive and ape-like, with our masculine muscles, wide jaws and whatever other negative crap someone wants to put on the pile of deception, then why is a warning required? Wouldn’t women who are that unattractive be automatice men-repellants? In a world where men’s attraction to women is mostly shallow end visibility? Why would there need to be so much negative PR put out by dads and moms? Huh?
Truth: Men want what they can’t have, and when they still can’t get it, the “sour grapes” syndrome takes over.
Beautiful black women, don’t accept that stupidity for anything except stupidity. It’s GAME. Clearly, black women provide the original fabric that others seek to copy. Period. End of story. Many people of all races are waking up to this fact every day, and those who haven’t will.
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I understand what abagond was doing with this post. Now, let’s see how many peole understand what I’m doing with my response. I could post that many black women don’t date white men because they see them as:
1. Having a very small male reproductive organ/appendage.
2. Balding at an amazing rate, much earlier than men of other races.
3. Having hair that grows profusely on back (sort of ape-like).
4. Having either very flat Glutemous maximus muscle, or no ass at all.
5. Being cowardly, afraid and unlikely to express an opinion other than the one held by other men of his ilk.
6. Being greedy, insecure, using war and weapons of war to assert race superiority.
7. Having no genuine compassion for anyone. Only pretending to care about others when media/TV is present, or when they see an opportunity to accomplish #6.
Now. Anyone can come up with a repulsive list. And some of the items might even have a modicum of truth inserted.
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Black women sure do get a lot of attention for being so ugly. (sarcasm)
Think about when you were in school. All the attractive good looking girls were talked about right? Whether the comments were good or bad, the point is they were talked about or given attention. Now think about all the girls who were considered “unattractive”. Did anyone pay them attention?
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Black men have always loved black women’s distinctive physical features. I think everybody is very aware of this fact. Even when black men run away from home for sex with ‘exotic’ women you’ll usually find them in the arms of some moreno latina dominicana or brazillian with obvious African ancestry. Black men complain about black women in their own countries and then run away… to more black women. Just like how a lot of white American men complain about (white) American women and then go after Russian or Eastern European women.
White men also like to sleep with black women and this can also be proven beyond a reasonable doubt. Lady’s and gentlemen of the jury, we have DNA evidence to prove these allegations. If you look all up and down the Western Hemisphere you will find many, many people with mixed African and European ancestry. A good proportion of the Black Americans (I’d say the majority), who I see clearly have European physical features. I would never mistake Jay-Z, Malcolm X, Beyonce, Colin Powell, Snoop Dogg, Denzel Washington, OJ Simpson, (etc) for black Africans. Black people acquired European features from white men having sex with black women since the days of slavery. It certainly wasn’t black men with white women, because black men wouldn’t have gotten anywhere within a mile of a white woman’s cookie-jar without a mob of crazed foaming-at-the-mouth white rabble lynching them. Even the eminent racist segregationist senator Strom Thurmond couldn’t resist “integrating” his willie lynch with his 13-year old black maid and producing an illegitimate child.
So, in the words of Public Enemy, don’t, don’t, don’t, don’t believe the hype.
*Its a bird, its a plane… its… its… captain save em all day*
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PowerFigure
CapSavM, you said:
“White men also like to sleep with black women and this can also be proven beyond a reasonable doubt. Lady’s and gentlemen of the jury, we have DNA evidence to prove these allegations.”
You are so right. How dare anyone believe the list at the top of these posts. White men have always desired black women, they just don’t want to admit it, and they don’t want to “do it in the daylight.” When one of them finally does, he is ostracized by the rest. Why, he may even have to become a black man, as did my grandmother’s father. He married my great grandmother and was told by his family that he was now a black man (this was in the late 1800s). My family bloodline is mixed indeed, and I am a product of all that.
SOME NON-BLACK MEN REALLY DO LOVE BLACK WOMEN–trust me. Most black Americans’ DNA provides all the evidence needed to support this hypothesis. The fact that many white men don’t want to date black women openly is more a testament to cowardice on their part, than it is to any list of “repugnant” features possessed by black women. It also does not change the fact they believe black is beautiful.
THE TRUTH WILL SET YOU FREE.
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I think WASP North American [frat boy] males have a very NARROW definition of female beauty–skinny, tanned, blonde, under 30. They can’t appreciate anything else.
For whatever reason, maybe because of Africa’s matriarchal culture, black men like powerful black women. White men like ‘weak’ females; case in point, their ‘fetish’ about Asian females and their ‘submissive’ Geisha ways.
Black men don’t want women they can subjugate. White men do.
Many white men have been brainwashed to think of ‘Paris Hilton’ types as the epitome of beauty.
This is not a common attitude in European white men, by the way. They love buxom women, raven-haired women, etc
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I think WASP North American [frat boy] males have a very NARROW definition of female beauty–skinny, tanned, blonde, under 30. They can’t appreciate anything else.
Truth. And then they think this is somehow supposed to be some universal standard of beauty.
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^^^
Very true.
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I am not sure that black women are seen as ugly. But whites often don’t see them as potential dating/marriage material. Which has nothing to do with their alleged “unattractiveness”. Those who are racists try to hide their racist thinking behind “rational” debate (black women are not feminine, black men prefer to date their own race, so why wouldn’t we, etc etc).
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Mell said: “I think WASP North American [frat boy] males have a very NARROW definition of female beauty–skinny, tanned, blonde, under 30. They can’t appreciate anything else.”
While this statement is probably true, I still think it reaffirms the idea that white men see black women as ugly, and that is the idea that I believe is false.
They may prefer to date and to marry “submissive” types, as Mell talked about, but I agree with what Mira said as well: “Those who are racists try to hide their racist thinking behind “rational” debate (black women are not feminine, black men prefer to date their own race, so why wouldn’t we, etc etc).”
No matter how “irrational” their “rational” debate is, racism is a form of cowardice. It is a dulusional breed of fear, that must have a “cloaking device.” Hence, the idea that they don’t or cannot love black women because, let me see, I know, hey, all black women are ugly!
I think we also need to remember that black women, like women of all races, prefer men who can “adore” them. It’s not just white men not choosing black women, it is also black women not choosing white men. While many of us (black women) may be open to the idea of dating white men, the reality is most of know that white men, in general, are not strong enough psychologically to handle a serious relationship with, and are not capable of “adoring” a strong black woman.
Don’t get me wrong. I know this does not apply to all white men. But still, it is a rare white male “gem” who possesses all the psychological strength required to love and adore a strong black woman.
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I’m proud to say I have never been a John Mayer fan, and I’m not even open to the idea of listening to anything he’s ever done or will do now.
He thinks he’s so cool that it’s now okay for him to be a despicable racist uttering the most vile and stupid racist comments. Let me put any white man who may read my posts on notice: You can never hide “racism” under the guise of being cool, and no one is dumb enough to think that you are so high above everyone else, that you can be openly racist and no one is going to call you on it.
This is what I was referring to in one of my previous posts when I said it is rare that you will find a white man who is psychologically strong enough to handle dating a strong black woman. This idiot thinks he has said something in his comments about Kerry Washington that will make black women think he is cool, when in actuality, his comments should make any woman of any race think that he needs some serious psychotherapy. What is his problem? What kind of idiot opens his mouth and allows this kind of crap/brain fart to escape?
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“SOME NON-BLACK MEN REALLY DO LOVE BLACK WOMEN–trust me. Most black Americans’ DNA provides all the evidence needed to support this hypothesis. The fact that many white men don’t want to date black women openly is more a testament to cowardice on their part, than it is to any list of “repugnant” features possessed by black women. It also does not change the fact they believe black is beautiful.
THE TRUTH WILL SET YOU FREE.”
Response: with all due respect, i think slave owners probably would have raped any woman they owned, whether they be black,white or asian. The point is men are men and men rape women who they have complete power over. Just look at the women who are routinely raped in prison by prison guards and most of them are not black prison guards either. If bw were slaves to any man at some point I guarentee someone’s gonna get raped because that’s just something that ignorant, stupid, sexist men do…
Also people can say all they want but anyday biology will trump sociology anyday. People can huff and puff about having racial preferences in females and all this stuff, but beauty and race are both social constructs. You take a male of any one race and put him alone on an island with a reasonably average looking woman (meaning all her limbs are in tact she’s fully functional) of any other race and just see what happens…
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Hi Peanut. You said: “with all due respect, i think slave owners probably would have raped any woman they owned, whether they be black,white or asian. The point is men are men and men rape women who they have complete power over.”
Just to be clear, I was not referring to the institution of slavery in my post. I was referring more to what I had said in a prior post, where I stated that my great grandfather was a white man, in Mississippi, who fell in love with my great grandmother, and, at the risk of being ostracized from his family, he married the woman he loved. They told him he had now become a black man.
Not all of our “interracial” DNA came from rape. Some of it actually came from love. Your assumption, however, sounds as though you are also buying into the idea that white men can’t love black women because we are just too ugly, but they can rape them, because they’ll rape anything or anyone who can’t get away from them.
While there is most likely a lot of truth in what you said, I had to let you know that that is not what I was referring to in my post. With all due respect, of course. : )
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CptSaveM: “Black people acquired European features from white men having sex with black women since the days of slavery. It certainly wasn’t black men with white women, because black men wouldn’t have gotten anywhere within a mile of a white woman’s cookie-jar without a mob of crazed foaming-at-the-mouth white rabble lynching them.”
It’s a popular misconception that during the slavery era black men had access to white women. In actuality there were many instances of black male and white female unions (and even marriages). Frequently the white woman in question was poor and/or an indentured servant. The children produced from these unions accounted for a sizeable percentage of the “Free People of Color” and often took their mother’s surname.
Many of the types of lynchings you mentioned actually occurred in the decades following Emancipation.
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^^^
Very true.
Much of the miscegenation that occurred during slavery was consensual, as well.
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@Paisely & myname, look up “Estimating African American Admixture Proportions by Use of Population-
Specific Alleles” in The American Journal of Human Genetics (December 1998):
“We analyzed the European genetic contribution to 10
populations of African descent in the United States
…and in Jamaica…. Results indicate a sex biased gene flow from Europeans, the male contribution being substantially greater than the female contribution.”
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1377655/
Similar studies in done in Brazil have had similar results. Both “black” and “white” Brazilians have much more paternal European DNA than maternal.
I’m aware of the records of black men with white wives or lovers in the slave era. But black men with access to white women were the exception and white men with black women was the rule.
It would be hard to know for sure exactly how much sex was consensual and how much was rape. But given the racist attitudes and power imbalance I would guess they did do a lot of raping.
Rape has always been a traditional part of warfare. There were lots of reports of mass rapes during World War II, for example. Similarities between the rapist soldiers and the slaveowners? No consequences for rape, racial/ethnic/cultural/national hatred for the other group, unlimited access to their women, and a big power imbalance.
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I agree with CandiedChestnut, I think black women should concern themselves with being attractive to themselves. We should concentrate on being healthy, on having healthy, thick, hair( not necessarily straight hair), obtaining a good education, surrounding ourselves with loving, positive people, and having a good relationship with God. If God has blessed you with a roof over your head, food on the table, loving friends, and good health, then forget what other people have to say. Many people are sadistic. They need to put down other people to feel good about themselves. Many people have a vested interest in maintaining negatives attitudes about black people, black women in particular. As long as we are at the bottom, some feel they are at the top. Don’t listen to them. Black women are beautiful. They know it. They just don’t want YOU to know. If black people were to trully be free in their minds, they would make better decisions and become even more successful than they are already. Some people don’t want this. They want you to be insecure, and insecurity forces you into a rut. So it is important to fight self hatred and promote self love. No matter what anyone has to say. People will lie to you all the time. Just realize that it is just that, a lie.
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Right on Jeri 🙂
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I agree 100%.
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I would never mistake Jay-Z, Malcolm X, Beyonce, Colin Powell, Snoop Dogg, Denzel Washington, OJ Simpson, (etc) for black Africans.
If you really think that there are no black Africans that look like these people, you need to take a trip there. Stat. This is pure ignorance.
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Good points, all. Beauty is and always will be in the eyes of the beholder. We can look at each other all day and all night saying “you’re ugly,” “no you’re ugly,” and that would not prove or solve anything.
I think women in general, and not just black women, need to take Jeri’s advice. Any society or people who place too much emphasis on physical beauty will lose sight of things that are much more important.
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times are changing, in England 30% of black women are with white men, im one of those women, i’ve dated several white men, all serious relationships
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Old habits die hard. In the U.S., especially in the south, it’s not that easy to let go of the past. Especially when there is still a lot of overt and covert racism, institutionalized and day-to-day, being practiced subtly and not so subtly.
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I’m sick of people worshipping white men… they’re men and I’m really tired of people considering being able to obtain a white man as the epitome of accomplishment for a bw. For that matter I’m sick of being able to obtain a man being considered the epitome of accomplishment for blackwomen. If I see one more news segment on how single bw supposedly are I’m going to scream…i’m tired of it. Leave bw in peace for once. If people dont’ want ot look at our “ugly” african faces, then I’d appreciate it if they’d leave us the heck alone. Stay out of africa, stop stealing our resources, stop coming to bw for easy sex, stop asking us to take care of your kids and leave us in peace…its that simple
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Maybe this string has run its course. Black women, be strong.
You know you’re beautiful and you understand that it really doesn’t matter what anyone else thinks. It’s what you think of you that matters the most.
Never forget that.
I am sure you don’t want someone who doesn’t think of you as beautiful, so it really doesn’t matter what some white men think of black women. The man, black, white, yellow, brown or red, who does see you as beautiful will find his way to you one day. So just keep the faith, stay beautiful, and stay true to who you are. Don’t let anyone’s opinion change who you are. If you’re like me, you don’t want any man of any race who, for whatever reason, cannot see or appreciate your inner and outer beauty.
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@Natasha “If you really think that there are no black Africans that look like these people, you need to take a trip there. Stat. This is pure ignorance.”
Got a plane ticket? I was referring to black Africans from the regions where African-Americans’ ancestors originated. West Africa and West Central Africa. No, I’ve never been to Africa. But based on West Africans I see in real life or in pictures and TV, many black Americans have more European features. Many Jamaicans, West Indians, Haitians, black Cubans and some Brazilians could pass for West Africans. Many United States blacks couldn’t- at least not many of the famous ones. I can guarantee I would easily pick out Snoop Dogg, Jay-Z, (etc) in a crowd in Ghana, Senegal, Nigeria or Democratic Republic of Congo.
Second point: black women begging for approval from white men is kind of corny. But I don’t really care what women do. I let women go on with their f-d up ways because a chick is a chick. If I did care I’d end up like the corny insecure white sissy-boys who cry like girls when white chicks sleep with black men.
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Cpt,
Got a plane ticket?
Got $3,000 to spare? 🙂
I was referring to black Africans from the regions where African-Americans’ ancestors originated. West Africa and West Central Africa.
I knew that. I’ve heard others say this before.
No, I’ve never been to Africa. But based on West Africans I see in real life or in pictures and TV, many black Americans have more European features.
Take a trip. I’m very serious. I think on TV and in pictures they purposely try to show what they believe are “true Africans,” and thus why you have the idea you do. Many African-Americans have this view, and I find it quite interesting as a person who has lived amongst W. Africans my entire life.
Many Jamaicans, West Indians, Haitians, black Cubans and some Brazilians could pass for West Africans. Many United States blacks couldn’t- at least not many of the famous ones. I can guarantee I would easily pick out Snoop Dogg, Jay-Z, (etc) in a crowd in Ghana, Senegal, Nigeria or Democratic Republic of Congo.
Since when does Jay-Z, of all people, have “European” features? My W. African relatives have features much smaller than his. I REALLY doubt you would be able to pick someone like him out. Or are you referring to his skin color? Again, many W. Africans are of his complexion, or lighter. Of course there are darker W. Africans, but making it seem like he would be an anomaly is laughable. Especially if you were in certain parts of the Congo or Nigeria. And someone like Snood Dogg would fit right in.
See the post “Melyssa Ford” for more info (and pictures) on this topic.
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Cpt Second point: “black women begging for approval from white men is kind of corny. But I don’t really care what women do. I let women go on with their f-d up ways because a chick is a chick. If I did care I’d end up like the corny insecure white sissy-boys who cry like girls when white chicks sleep with black men.”
Amen Cpt. I agree, buy would use the word “wack” in place of “corny.” : )
I would rather live single and happy the rest of my life than to spend one second agonizing over who does or does not think I’m ugly. I know that–as a race, black women are beautiful, and I just want all of us to remember that we have stood strong through waaaay too much stuff, even after standing strong through hundreds of years of slavery, then a century of its aftermath which, in many ways, was just as bad or worse in some cases.
We have been too tough, too strong, too resilient for too long, to get to 2010 and turn into blithering babies because some white man thinks we are ugly. Please.
Let us leave that sad man who doesn’t know the meaning of the world “beauty” to his own little thoughts, whatever they may be. He is entitled to his thoughts/opinions, whatever they may be, however small. He will live a small life. Let him.
As long as we don’t allow such thoughts/opinions to mess with our minds, we’ll be just fine. It’s when you let that stuff mess with how you see yourself that you weaken your own mind. Noone can take your strength away from you, you have to give it away.
Don’t let them in, don’t let them win. Stay strong. We’ve withstood much “bigger” stuff from them for centuries. “Lest we forget.”
Be inspired by our strength, our history. Here are a few links to my heroines, Harriet Tubman and Sojourner Truth.
http://www.harriettubmanbiography.com/
http://womenshistory.about.com/od/sojournertruth/a/sojourner_truth_bio.htm
These women are my heroes. They didn’t care what anybody said about them, and what somebody thought about their looks wasn’t even a blimp on their radar screens. They had work to do, and they had to be strong and even pillars of strength to do it. This is black history month, for God’s sake. I am praying there is not a black woman alive who is truly worried about what some lilly livered white man thinks about how she looks. The white men who believe in us and in our beauty are the only ones good enough to be in our company anyway.
Please. People have been lying about us since time immemorial. If you read the famous “Ain’t I a Woman” speech given by Sojourner Truth, you’ll most likely find it written in “Negro dialect.” The truth about Sojourner (Isabella Baumfree) is that she was born and raised in New York, spoke only Dutch until she was sold at age nine. After that, she spoke English, and not in the dialect of the speech. That was done later, by someone, for “effect.”
But my point is, many people are intimidated by ALL THE STRENGTH we represent. They have to do something to try and take us down, and they know they have to go “through the mind” to do that.
Don’t let them win.
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From what i’ve seen all my life, black women are more beautiful, they come in good figures and shapes..
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Black girls is beautiful…….i cab argue that in any court
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Agagond, I respect your effort to make ppl see with eyes uncloudy, but this just won’t happen. Truth is white womans know they have no asset. Black women come with everything. Body , looks and diversity. Ww get tans to look black. Not to have go olive look. Everything a ww get is to look more black. First breast implants, butt injections, botots, check and face lift. Need I say more.
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I appreciate your efforts to at least see it from the white perspective (that list you provided) but your conclusions are wrong. In fact, one of them is common among non-white writers who aren’t as familiar with white people as they think.
Tanning does NOT stem out of a desire to emulate black features. It does not stem out of contact with blacks either.
Tanning became popular during the neo-classical movement in Germany this also inspired the Christian-Athlete movement in the U.S. and has been kept alive through pop culture ever since. There’s been a trend against tanning in the last 10 years which has begun to sink in permanently among young, hip white women. That of course, is because skin cancer awareness campaigns have done an excellent job of making “pale the new tan” i.e. cool and acceptable.
I’ve also seen some commenters saying that white women with black features are celebrated—how about black women with white features?
Also, I notice the old canard “white women don’t like booty/can’t handle curves” which is thrown out there by African Americans who don’t know whites as much as they think they do. This comes from pop-media trends that came out of the 60- to late 90’s dominance of fashion designers.
Fashion designers are/were mostly gay men. They do not know what straight white men want to see for the most part. If you look back to the 50’s and earlier, female stars normally athletic dancers or busty and curvy. Look at the pinup girls mostly white American men would paint on the side of their bomber planes in WWII–they were curvy. One media outlet that shows what straight white men want to see is, like it or not, pornography. The top white female pornstars have been curvy, classically caucasian white females with big boobs (real or not) and thick ass and thighs. In fact there’s so much cross over appeal, that some of these women are also favored by black men. *Lisa Ann* is an example of this.
Also your conclusion, that ‘it’s just racism’ is not satisfactory. You select the most extreme conclusion, yet don’t elaborate. That doesn’t live up to the introduction and body of your post, and comes across as lazy, maybe even denial.
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Tommy,
It’s not that white women “can’t handle curves”. But the beauty standards are different these days. Yes, we can blame it on the fashion designers, but I don’t think it has anything to do with black men or women. It’s a white people’s thing. White beauty standards praise skinny look with no curves (except for breasts). Meaning: no round hips, no butt. End of story. Someone’s personal preferences are not important here; it’s not the secret this is today’s white beauty standard. I am not saying it doesn’t affect black people (black females in particular), because there are many curvy black women who definitely don’t fit this beauty standard. But it’s not something black people made up. It’s real and it’s out there.
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Most peole here know how I feel about this.Im almost as upset as Peanut.
I pity people that think black woman arnt beautiful.
I absolutly dont understand any of the stereotypes.
Apes? As people pointed out, the hair and lips are more white features and lots of monkeys and chimps have white skin.
Muscleled? My god, you dont get any more muscle than in womans sprints and beleive me, when olympics come around I am all eyes in front of the tv to watch the womens sprint events because I know some of the most drop dead gorgeous black women are going to be participating.
Go see the Alvyn Aily dance company or Dance Theatre of Harlem ( are they still around?)
I wish there was some way I could be a mirror on here for the black women who have felt in any way bad about these stereotypes. Because I would reflect great beauty.I could tell you about many black woman who are much older who I think are beautiful, Lena Horne, Elza Soares, Dianne Carrol,the wife of Jackie Robinson was extra specialy beautiful to me, my mother in law, the list is enormas.
You all know what the deal is and more power to you all for looking it in the eye and seeing it for what it is…
Black women are incredibly beautiful
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Sinaya
“Everything a ww get is to look more black. First breast implants, butt injections, botots, check and face lift. Need I say more.”
That’s not stereotyping at all LOL. 1. There are plenty of white women with naturally large breast, so I don’t think getting breast implants is trying copy black women. 2. Butt injections, maybe but there are plenty of Latin and Mediterranean women with big butts and thighs. 3. Botocks and face lift, please I have seen plenty of black women with saggy faces, all people start to sag with age, that is not a color thing it is a youth/age thing.
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To B.R.
I agree, black women are incredibly beautiful.
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Mira,
White beauty standards praise skinny look with no curves (except for breasts).
Exactly. White people seem to confuse big breasts/implants with curviness.
Tommy brought up women in pornagraphy as revealing what white men are really attracted to. Good point. Let’s have a look…
Who are the current top five grossing pornstars (according to pornstaremart.com)? Jesse Jane, Jenna Jameson, Jessica Drake, Julia Ann, and Asia Carrera. These women are all very similar in appearance. The first three are thin blondes with implants and the fourth is an averaged-sized blonde with implants. Only the last could be called thick in any sense. According to sales, what most white men are really attracted to is white women that are blonde, thin, and busty. Which could’ve been figured out without analyzing pornstars, and which abagond has already stated on this very blog.
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Exactly. While big breasts do count as curves (at least in my book), they are naturally accompanied by round hips and big butt. Which mean that women with naturally big breasts are usually thick in overall, not skinny. It’s very rare for a woman to be skinny with big breasts.
Yes, white men do like big breasts, that’s not a secret. But it doesn’t change the fact they want women to be skinny otherwise. So, no round hips or big butts. They seem to prefer skinny women with large breasts. Like I said, it’s very rare to find that, that’s why women are encouraged to get implants.
Also, if you ask men- any men- if they prefer women with curves, most of them will say they do like curves. However, white men and black men tend to have different ideas about what’s curvy. To a white man, for example, Megan Fox could be considered “curvy”. Nothing against Megan, but I am not sure if black men would think of her as curvy woman. To me, she is skinny (but not unhealthy looking). To many women I know, she is just “average”. But (white) women tend to have even weirder standards when it comes to other women’s figures (they find Beyonce and Salma Hayek fat, plain and simple). Then again, many woman- especially young woman I know, don’t realize round hips are about the bone structure and not “fatness”. But that’s another story.
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Mira, right. The ideal of big breasts and a thin body is hard to come by. It’s no big surprise that the top cosmetic surgery procedures in the US, by far, are breast enhancement (number one) and liposuction (number two). And nearly all of those going in for these procedures are white women.
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Megan Fox…average. The average woman I see looks nothing like Megan Fox. I think she’s very beautiful, but most women white or black are not that thin.
Also people need to understand that some people muscles are just built bulkier. I wish they would stop calling beyonce fat. She has muscular thighs. For some people, like beyonce or Serena Williams, these women no matter how much weigh they lose will always have thicker thigh muscles in proportion w/ their body. that is just their body type. As long as they’re healthy, their not going to be straight up and down, they’re just not built like that.
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Well look how the media and cosmetics industry and the modeling industry have shaped how men think what they are suposed to be attracted to, and what women are suposed to be like.
That platinum blond big breasted concept was really put out there by Hugh Hefner in early fifties. Sure, in the 40’s, those sweaters and pin ups like Betty Grable were the thing, but, even she posed with her back to the camera.
But Ive seen photos of the early roaring 20’s and the jazz age and it seems small perky breasts and tight rising well developed asses were what was the thing.And that is my type
I tell you, I always was my own man, even at 9 and 10. Those Marilyn nude on the red carpet ones were just coming out, and sure , I was exited, but, I was also very exited seeing pictures in National Geographic, when they would show near nude black women dancing or doing something. The faces were just beautiful and the colors could be dark black to nut brown , the breasts extremly attractive and counter culture . I can remember some to this day and how exited they made me.Amd the faces were not unlike some of the girls I was going to school with, it just all tied in very naturaly for me.
Dont get me started on porn… Im sure it wont pass Abagond ‘s standards
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…National Geographic???Isn’t that the magazine where they put penguins and animals in them? Nude bw in national geographic?
If I may ask, BR how old are you?
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I like betty grable: http://blogs.nyu.edu/blogs/em25/theportrait/betty-grable.jpg
I love the classic hollywood look
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Although my hair is dark and dark hair is beautiful, I do think blond hair is pretty. Blonde hair can look good on white women and white men too.
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@peanut:
I agree. I never thought of Beyonce as fat either. If that’s fat, then that way of thinking is effed up imho. What really irks me is that, even though I’m of Asian descent, I’m expected to live up to the petite, slim, small-chested stereotype. I always felt like an anomaly simply because I had breasts and was considered “heavier” because I weighed 110 pounds. Are you kidding me? Anything over a 100 pounds was considered fat.
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I don’t think that the fashion industry is geared toward thin models because the designers are gay. I think that is such a lame attempt to scapegoat.
I think that saying that white men or fashion or whoever don’t like curvy is blown out of proportion. I don’t think that is true at all.
Cosmetic surgery to enhance black features, ie the six women from New Jersey who had caulk injected into their behinds to become more curvy, is no better than to achieve other features.
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^ Caulk? I’m speechless.
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Peanut, you got me, I wont lie to you, Im a young 60, i still body surf, drum and other good things…
And, when I was 9 through 14 or so, National Geographic would occaisionaly have huge photo spreads of visiting a sub sahara African tribe. And sure had an effect on me. I have mentioned before , I was listening to African music at that age so the culture was very important to me.Some of the girls were extraordinarily beautiful. And like I said, some reminded me of girls I was going to school with and it tied in naturaly into understanding black beauty.
Including the older women with suckled breasts, in the sence of understanding the total beauty of what a total woman is , and will be. These things made sence to me.
and still do as I will explain below…
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…This may be grafic for some, and Abagond can decide if he wants it to stay…
But , this whole thing of media hype what is beautiful about women and the breast for instance.
Two incredibley important women for me in my discovery of myself as a man, had children and were several years older than me.
Their breasts had been suckled.They were extremly beautiful women. One of them was my first wife. She had anandoned her 4 kids because of bad relationships with a couple of guys. I would never have known. I met her in a theatre company I was drumming for, and it was well after her leaving her kids in foster homes and she paid huge dues , I cant judge her for that.Her father was going to help her but got shot dead being mugged and that is what made her loose hope at that time. I fell in love with her watching her dance Cathurine Dunham technique and she had a very nice line and posture and great body.
She was such a great lover that the suckeled breast absolutly made no differance , sometimes even enhancing the love making.I learned very deeply from these older black women that this media hype of what beauty is , is only that, hype. Real life plays out in a very differant way in finding out what is really beautiful and important to you.
These womans ability to make me feel comfortable and like a man cut through very deeply as to what beauty really is for me in a woman.
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@Leigh,
Yeah, caulk! It’s unbelievable isn’t it. Just be happy with what you have.
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/2010/03/08/2010-03-08_new_jersey_women_hospitalized_after_buttockenhancing_surgery_gone_wrong.html
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@islandgirl:
Wow. The things women do to try to beautify themselves may end up hurting them in the long run.
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islandgirl,
I think that saying that white men or fashion or whoever don’t like curvy is blown out of proportion. I don’t think that is true at all.
It’s not blown out of proportion. It’s merely true that this is their preference.
Now, I know you’re a thin woman that has been discriminated against due to your figure. And that colors your perception of weight matters, i.e., you are less apt to see issues that involve fuller-figured women and more apt to see those that involve thin women. But it is quite obvious that beauty ideals, by and large, are skewed in favor of thin women. This does not mean that thin women are never made to feel inadequate, because they are. However, I’d bet if you asked any woman which she’d rather be — slightly underweight or slightly overweight, the answer would be the former.
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Most people don’t care about the thin/fat issues of the fashion industry. I certainly don’t!
Ladies, lets face it, there are so many men like Laurelton Queens who will slag off everything and everybody but themselves.
There will be people on this very blog who will be offended, but miss the point that of course there are millions of good black men out there. Their silence though is complicit with all this incredible vitriol heaped on black women.
No other race of men disrespects its women publicly like black men do. We’re gold-diggers? :yawn:
We’re manly looking? Ask them if their mothers are. No wonder these men are always accused of self hatred.
Interestingly enough these men are so busy finding everything wrong with black women but they are so blind to the even higher crimes/faults of black men.
I don’t know any blog online that tackles that topic. The thug mentality of black men in London is completely out of control. Its embarassing. Even when they cross that color line they still abuse their non black women.
Sorry I don’t think it’s a biased media, whites didn’t put guns and knives in those black men’s hands.
Whites aren’t telling black men to disrespect their own race of women.
Lay the blame where it belongs,a racist society is a contributing factor, but ultimately we are responsible for our own actions. Sadly a lot of black men aren’t clued up to the fact that continuing to blame everyone else for the choices they make won’t solve anything!
Why aren’t so many black men sticking around to raise their own children? Instilling in little black girls that they are pretty and worthy, and not just the lighter skinned.
Marry whomever you want but stop dragging black women into your nonsense.
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“No other race of men disrespects its women publicly like black men do.”
I wholeheartly agree with that! Most men as a culture, generally uphold their women and think that their women are the best.
Natasha,
I understand what you are saying, but I don’t see that. I see fuller figured women being uplifted and thin women being openly and unapolgetically degraded. Maybe it’s the area in which I live. It is a kinda rural/country area. In NYC or LA, it might be diffrerent.
Also, I think that most black women would opt to be slightly overweight.
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islandgirl,
I understand what you are saying, but I don’t see that. I see fuller figured women being uplifted and thin women being openly and unapolgetically degraded. Maybe it’s the area in which I live. It is a kinda rural/country area. In NYC or LA, it might be diffrerent.
Yeah, you must live somewhere odd. Or around only black people (Lol). There is the comment every now and then like “Girl, you’re so thin,” but I wouldn’t say thin women are “unapologetically degraded.” Not by a long shot. As well as most of the comments about thin women from other women seeming to stem from envy or insecurity masked in superiority.
Also, I think that most black women would opt to be slightly overweight.
I don’t know about that. I think Lynette wrote her thesis about these ideals even beginning to affect black women. They desire to be thin now too. Which is what I noticed as well, working in urban school systems.
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Yeah, small town Indiana.:( Don’t quite fit in. I guess my judgement is based on how I was treated and how I hear and see so many black or any other women put down thin women. There are channels on Youtube devoted to it. I wrote one describing my experiences and telling her that it is wrong and she wrote back a long letter and took it down. It was appalling some of the things she said in the video. And then some of Abagond’s and commentors post on here saying that thin women are not fertile, look like 12 yo boys, yada, yada.
But you being in the urban school system, you probably have a whole perspective on this. I wasn’t aware teens (black) are body concious. It is bad and good. It is interesting what you get to withness.
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Merrimay,
No other race of men disrespects its women publicly like black men do.
This does seem to be the case. While I don’t think that black men that are disparaging of black women are the majority, there does seem to be a higher percentage of them compared to men of other races that talk down women of their race. It’s pretty interesting.
Sorry I don’t think it’s a biased media, whites didn’t put guns and knives in those black men’s hands. Whites aren’t telling black men to disrespect their own race of women.
Not overtly, but maybe covertly. Black men, like all people, are affected by images in media. Since women are still prized for their physical appearances first, if black women are being portrayed in a negative light or are simply absent outside of black media, what does that tell the men? That their women aren’t good enough? That non-black women are more desirable?
islandgirl,
Don’t allow those comments to affect you. Thin women are certainly not inferior as women, and it’s silly for people to even suggest otherwise.
Yes, in the environments I’ve worked in, particularly the Northeast, black females are desiring to be thin and “modelesque.” Even in cities where most people are not white.
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Lynette, that’s interesting about the cognitive dissonance. I can certainly see the contrasting images being a problem.
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Thanks Natasha! I’m not surprised that you’re in the Northeast. I am suprised that the girls want to be not only thin but “modelesque”. Black women normally pride themselves on being thick, but things seem to be changing.
Lynette,
I will have to go back and read your dissertation again. But it is quite interesting the conflict that black women face and having to straddle the fence. In your research, did you find out why the black culture is so preoccupied (up until now) with thickness. It’s an interesting angle because as a society we always talk about obession with thinness, but not the opposite.
Did you have to interview or perform a focus group?
MerryMay,
It would be interesting to see when this first occured. Have black men always been like this? When did black men start leaving the homes in droves? Has any research been conducted regarding this?
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Lynette, regarding the “prizing of thickness…”
If this is cultural (something that has been passed down through generations) then perhaps it’s only a matter of time until the prizing diminishes or loses prevalence in African-American culture (as opposed to African cultures of course)? Perhaps it’s already occurring as suggested by islandgirl, and posts by others in this thread that have alluded to a perception of increasing BW bashing by BM?
Kiernan820
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@peanut
Megan Fox…average. The average woman I see looks nothing like Megan Fox.
I didn’t mean they consider Megan to be average looking, but of average weight. Yes.
Then again, I might be speaking from the position of my culture where many young women are thin and, if they are not, they are chubby or fat- but the shape of their body is not “curvy”. Women here don’t tend to have round hips, strong legs or big butts, not at all. That’s why it’s impossible for them to tell the difference between “overweight” and a woman with big hips (because of the bone structure).
Plus, the beauty standard here is very rigid, and as far as I can tell it’s worse than in America. Yes, Beyonce and Rihanna, Salma Hayek, J.Lo etc are considered overweight. So is Scarlett Johansson. They are considered to have fantastic breasts, but that are otherwise overweight.
In that sort of “climate”, it’s easy to see why Megan Fox is not considered to be really thin, but “just normal”.
@islandgirl
I understand your feelings and your personal situation, but, like Natasha, I do think it’s more of an exception to the general “thin is better” rule. Or maybe that’s because you live in a small town.
I do believe you had problems and yes, what those people did on Youtube and similar things in real life are bad. There are plenty of healthy, thin women. And no, they are no less fertile. And no, they don’t look like 12 year old boys. They are feminine. Those who think otherwise are entitled to their opinion, but nobody should harass others, especially not by trying to make healthy (thin- or thick) women feeling bad about themselves.
However, this doesn’t change the fact there is a general “rule” (beauty standard) in the white culture (especially in my part of the world)- thin is better, and what is considered thin is not the same as “healthy weight”.
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Lynette: “I was very homesick that first year and as a result loss about 10 pounds in the first couple of months.”
man, i wish i would lose weight when I got depressed. I eat too much when I get depressed, lol! you’re lucky.
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peanut,
Don’t talk like that. Both conditions are serious. If someone stops eating, that can make a person anorexic. it happened to a friend of mine and it’s not a good thing.
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Yikes. Again, female insecurities are running amok.
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Lynette,
Your research must have been interesting. Is this your specialty? You could build an entire practice just on body issues alone.
What I don’t understand about African prizing thickness is that most all Africans that I see (and I’ve had/have friends who are) are quite slvete. Even on TV, most of them are thin (not the improvished either). I have a guy friends and we discuss preference, and they never mention that. In fact a woman in my office is African and I made a comment about her being thin and she took it as a compliment and said thank you. Maybe there are different cultures within Africa that prefer this that I am unware of.
Mira,
If you don’t mind, where are you from again? I’ve never heard of a place that was that extreme in their like for thinness. Do you feel like you are any less of your culture because of their preference? You are curvy and that’s great! It would seem you would be beating men off with a stick because most men set your body as the prototype for femininity. It just sounds like you are not suited (in terms of body type) with your environment. Maybe we should switch locations.lol
No slappz,
It’s tough.
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Merrimay,
“No other race of men disrespects its women publicly like black men do.”
I don’t know about that, Muslim men have been known to beat their women in the streets with sticks and whips, plus they’re forced to wear Burkas.
Islandgirl,
“Yeah, small town Indiana.:( Don’t quite fit in.”
This is off topic, but I don’t know where to ask this question. When most black people came to this country most lived in rural areas, plantations and so forth, so why do most black folks live in urban areas now, and why don’t more move to the country?
To no slappz
Female insecurities are way bigger than I could have imagined. I just read a book recently about the male train of thought vs the female train of thought and it blew my mind. Over 5,000 women studied and almost all of them had emotional and physical insecurities that men just don’t have. It is almost like a war is being waged everyday in their minds.
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Yes, women are just so insecure! And for no good reason.
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O Dochartaigh,
Yes except being Muslim is a religion not a race is it?
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MerriMay –
I think O Dochartaigh was simply wanting to say that there are many other “groups/categories” of men that also mistreat or devalue women. Women are mistreated all over the world and in some cultures worse than others.
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Thickness is prized in certain African cultures, my roots are South African, I should know. I do however come from a long line of very petite women, genes do play a part in one’s size, bone structure, body type etc.
I see African women in London of a wide myriad of shapes and weight, so I can’t call it. I have a Kenyan friend from the Masai tribe, she’s rail thin and very tall. Somali and Ethiopian women tend to be thin as well.
The African staple diet is quite rich and stodgy, so that may play a part in the propensity for African women to be so thick, I’d call it curvy but heck that’s me 😉
A thick woman in certain South African tribes can be a sign of prosperity and general well being.
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To MerriMay
Well technically they fall under the Semitic group, that includes most of the Arabic world. Middle eastern men have treated their women very badly for a long time, I’m sure religion is a strong factor for this.
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You know white women at one time in history were prized for being over wight. The Greeks and Italians loved big women, if you look at paintings by Michelangelo most of the women were chubby. I once heard from a history professor that chubby women meant that she came from a wealthy family and had plenty of money to spend on food and other things. So chubby and even fat white women at one time were a prize.
I guess we then discovered it is unhealthy so women started watching their figure.
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O Dochartaigh
I hear ya!
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Ó Dochartaigh says,
I don’t know about that, Muslim men have been known to beat their women in the streets with sticks and whips, plus they’re forced to wear Burkas.
laromana says,
I agree that women worldwide are sufferring mistreatment/abuse and I strongly object to this as well but, as a BW, I DETEST that MOST BM are DISRESPECTING/DEMEANING/DEGRADING the HUMANITY/DIGNITY/FEMININITY of BW instead of DEFENDING the honor of their same race women as MEN of ALL OTHER RACES do.
I know of NO OTHER RACE of men (regardless of religion), but MOST BM, who PUBLICLY TRASH BW TO OTHER CULTURES for being BW.
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O Dochartaigh –
I would agree regarding that perspective in europe at the time. I would tend to lean towards the view that the images were more voluptuous rather than ‘fat’ however.
While society has become much more “health conscious”, I find it is becoming a bit extreme. I live in Miami and see ‘fit bodies all the time. The ideals are becoming skewed. There are women down here who are not even in the professional “Fitness Circuit”, yet the work themselves into skinny states, get breast implants to replace the natural fat they lost -and on top of it are taking small amounts of male hormones to help maintain that “athletic” look!
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ColorofLuv, I have some friends from Miami and they say the same thing. They are very weight conscious and believe they are not fit enough, despite being thin, because compared to others in Miami, they are overweight.
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laromana
“I know of NO OTHER RACE of men (regardless of religion), but MOST BM, who PUBLICLY TRASH BW TO OTHER CULTURES for being BW.”
I’m going to have to respectfully disagree, many cultures do this, but I suppose it is not just because they are black or brown women, but just because they are women period. Many countries treat their women like chattel, selling their 12 year old daughters to 50 year old men, and treating them like property.
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Ó Dochartaigh,
I’m going to have to respectfully disagree, many cultures do this, but I suppose it is not just because they are black or brown women, but just because they are women period.
Therein is the point, which you missed.
A misogynist will be a misogynist. We are not speaking of them, but black men who disparage black women in particular.
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colorofluv
“While society has become much more “health conscious”, I find it is becoming a bit extreme.”
I agree, starving yourself for “beauty” is in itself unhealthy. If a girl has naturally big hips that is fine with me, but if there is extra fat connected to those love handles, or if she has a little pouch going on in the stomach area, to me that is a sign of laziness and poor diet.
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Natasha W
I understand the point, I have spoken to Asian men that prefer white women over Asian women, and when I ask why that is, they say because Asian women are prude, flat chested, and too conservative in bed. I have seen interviews with Pakistani men in Britain, and when asked the same question they say because Pakistani and Indian women are to bossy and have hot tempers and so on. They where degrading there women for and accepting another race.
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Ó Dochartaigh says,
You are missing the point I’m making.
MANY ANTI-BW BM in Hollywood and the music industry are contributing to GLOBAL ANTI-BW LIES/MYTHS/STEREOTYPES by producing songs/videos/films that portray BW in the MOST NEGATIVE light possible. MANY of these high profile BM also JOIN IN with anyone else who PUBLICLY TRASHES BW instead of defending the HUMANITY/DIGNITY/FEMININITY of BW.
Again, I don’t know of ANY OTHER RACE of men who are creating global media that trashes their same race women (regardless of how they treat their women within their culture) and influences how the whole world views their same race women.
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Im going to clumsily address a couple of things here people have brought up.
First, I think we should be careful about generalising about any groups of men or women, white, black , brown, red and yellow etc, I only say this to preface what I might say so people know I dont want to condemn huge groups of anybody.
So, as people have remarked about some black men putting down black women and others have chimed in other cultures do this and complain of nagging or boring or loud, one thing we cant rule out is “the mother ” factor.
There just are some men who have had bad relationships with their mothers and translate that in their relationships with women in their race.You all know the history of the black family in slavery, being broken up and many black males raised in a one parent family , usualy the mother, and, she has to be an authority figure also.
This definitly is a factor and you dont have to be a black male to have mother issues, its played out in hollywood all the time and most of Emenem is about mother issues.
And , about the bad image of black women in the media, well, lets just take the hip hop music videos. It is the American dilema to either be raunch or represion. The hip hop videos that did put out some images of black women as sex objects, put up images of black women totaly absent from main stream white driven media, but, didnt make them sensual, they made them raunchily sexual.
Like Tip Drill.I would love to see black women dancing and in sensual costumes, but, , they are portraid as total sex objects. But, we can sit around and agree how exploitive the scenes are, but, I will request to take the clip home to study how much more exploitive it is to bring in a report. I just cant take my eyes off it.
But, it isnt sensual, and I miss that.
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And as far as body types , I beleive the best thing we can do is work with what each one of us has been given.
We all have the power to change our bodies through hard discipline and diet attention, but, too much can be harmful.
All bone structures have the potential to be very attractive. Black women have qualities that play out very well with both being thick or thin. A thin black women usualy will have very well defined curves, and black women carry weight better than a lot of races.
Length of leg can define various things in both ways, long or short.
And, how a woman carries herself, walks down the street, talks with people, smiles, flirts, have alot to do with beauty and charm. We all know women who couldnt be models who have men eating out of the palm of their hands.
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I hope we’re not coming across as bashing black men, but I want to understand why black men seem to be the loudest in denigrading black women.
As for muslim men whipping their women in public, heck I’d say they do so in the framework of protecting their women’s virtue, regardless how the West views such practices as barbaric. I’m not condoning it people!
Black men on the other hand illustrate their hatred in music(white producers do not write those lyrics, lets not blame mighty whitey again), online blogs, in their choices to date outside and in doing so spitting, figuratively of course, in black women’s faces. Making a laughing stock of their own women to non black women.
What sort of men do this?
The continued silence from black men is quite interesting. Black women at least engage in dialoque, we admit we’re not perfect. I salute black women on this blog who take hits on this blog from the ‘haters’ with such amazing grace 🙂
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I salute them also Merrymay, and no I dont want you to think I thought you all were bashing black men, I think you all are expressing yourselves from the heart, and, I meant what I said for people not to think I am generalising.
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Merrimay
Why in your opinion, do black male musicians write these lyrics?
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I dont know, maybe there is going to be a shift into a new dimension of the black man black woman where its going to matter less on unions together, and lead to being united politicaly but a greater freedom of choice about who the indivudual wants to hook up with.At least free of scrutiny from each other on certain issues.
Maybe certain trends of thought will be discarded for new paramaters, that wont diminish the struggle by one ounce ,but, will liberate some barriers that cause conflict and resentment.
That is just a thought not some deep died in the whool opinion
Trends of thought and philosophy do change and evolve over time to meet the real needs of the people involved
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O Dochartaigh,
Well I’m not a bloke so I don’t don’t know why they write such lyrics. Their actions affect how the world looks at us.
I had a posh English boy tell me to ‘drop it like its hot’ and certain other things pertaining to my rear end, obviously things he’s picked up from what our lovely black men write about us!
I’ve had another English guy who thought he was ‘down with the blacks’, mind you these are middle class whites in the suburbs, I live next door, preempt his sentences with ‘is it true black girls_________’, (be creative).
So I wonder who do I blame really? The ignorant white guy who just happens to be just another consumer? What does he know about black women? He’s not watching ITV or the BBC to get his fix about blacks, nope, this is being doled out by men that ‘know’ us best. Or do I blame my own race of men that are profiting from the most explicit, obscene degrading lyrics they know the world and his sister planet are buying to listen to?? I know where I’m leaning. Here’s a clue, he doesn’t live next door!
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B.R. says,
There just are some men who have had bad relationships with their mothers and translate that in their relationships with women in their race.You all know the history of the black family in slavery, being broken up and many black males raised in a one parent family , usualy the mother, and, she has to be an authority figure also.
laromana says,
B.R.,
If it wasn’t for BW choosing to give birth to BM and raise them (at GREAT PERSONAL SACRIFICE) usually without the help of BM, there would be NO BM on the planet.
BM owe a GREAT DEBT to their Black Mothers (regardless of how “flawed” they “may” have been) and there is NO EXCUSE for them to promote DISRESPECT for the women that most resemble their MOTHERS/GRANDMOTHERS.
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laromana says,
B.R., If it wasn’t for BW choosing to give birth to BM and raise them (at GREAT PERSONAL SACRIFICE) usually without the help of BM, there would be NO BM on the planet. BM owe GREAT DEBT to their Black Mothers (regardless of how “flawed” they “may” have been) and there is NO EXCUSE for them to promote DISRESPECT for the women that most resemble their MOTHERS/GRANDMOTHERS.
PowerFigure says:
Right on laromana. I couldn’t have said it better myself.
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To PowerFiure –
– – there have been lots of rips, put downs, jokes, on the First Ladies, it just comes with the territory. As for racial put downs, that’s non-negotiable and I agree that if anybody is guilty of that, shame on them!!!
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you know wat powerfigure, i agree with that analysis. in my study of slave narratives and such one particular one stands out in my mind and when I find it i will post it as an exact quote. basically though, in this story there was this slave woman and she was a fieldworker and was described as ‘tall and comely’ despite her lowly status as a slave, she always held her head high. Then one day she was sent on an errand by the overseer (the master’s son) and when she was on that errand, she was walking by a barn fence and the overseer was waiting. He told her to bend over and put her head inbetween the fence posts. He raped her. He did this because he wanted to take her down a few notches. He couldn’t stand the fact that she was so confident and regal even in her slave state, so he did the best he could to humble her and break her down. She later was forced to have a child by him.
I think that’s what this is about, trying to break bw down and turn bw into these stereotypes of bitter angry and ugly. That’s all it is. I find it odd that people are always so obsessed w/a group they claim to hate so much…anyone else find it odd and i’ve noticed this is something white supremacist do alot.
If you observe their behavior, when they talk about how supposedly ugly bw are…they will go out of their way to get either a picture of a monkey or the most unappealing, disgusting picture of some woman they can find and then rant and rave about how ugly bw are. I’ve seen this myself. They will never take the pics of attractive bw and compare to ww because they know deep inside that beauty is beauty and they don’t want to see that. So they’ll find any excuse to see bw as ugly and if somone comes w/ a pic of an attractive bw, they’ll rationalize her attraction away by saying “she must be mixed…” I just realized that is a common thing that is done…that should say something
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i also find it humorous the obsession w/ how single and miserable bw supposedly are…its like people get off on that notion or something. obsession man…
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and one more thing i find odd. some white men seem to have a sexual obsession with bm. I’m not talking about all wm, mind you. I’m not trying to attack anyone’s masculinity. But there are some wm who really seem to be obsessed with that…
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“and one more thing i find odd. some white men seem to have a sexual obsession with bm. I’m not talking about all wm, mind you. I’m not trying to attack anyone’s masculinity. But there are some wm who really seem to be obsessed with that…”
All of the accusations made on this site are undermining my mental health. LOL.
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FG, I’m not saying all or even most white men are like that. Please don’t misunderstand me.
BUt, there is some truth in that. I’ve found that some of the most racist wm seem to be sexually obsessed with bm. Read Eldridge Cleaver’s “Soul on Ice.” Look at how they castrated bm during Jim Crow…why do you think these racist white men did that? Why were they so paranoid about bm sleeping w/ white women? Sexual obsession masked beneath sexual paranoia. That is why.
I’m not talking about the norma wm, I’m talking about these racist jackasses only, if it doesn’t apply then i’m not talking to you…
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sometimes i think some of these racist wm who go out of their way to degrade bw but conspicuously dont do it to the same level of bw secretly are gay or something and envious of bw…why else would society be more socially accepting towards a black male than a black female??
There’s something deeper going on here. everything stems from basic human emotions. so i know it something deeper going on. I even remember one time this topic came up on a steve mcjackass sailer post and i remember reading in the comments that one person asked if you had to choose between sleeping with a bw and you were alone on an island or sleeping w/ another man or pleasuring yourself, which would you choose. most of the posters didn’t give an answer, only one person said they didn’t want to sleep w/another man…that should tell you something…
Again I am NOT talking about all white men here at all. I am talking about a small segement of white male population, namely the most racist ones who seem to be obsessed with bw for no reason and at the same time seem to obsess over/ idolize bm…
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and i’m not downing homosexuals here at all…if you’er gay, you’re gay that’s your buisness..but why the closet sexual obsession with bm and the blatant disrespect of bw…??? i wonder that’s all
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ColorOfLuv “… there have been lots of rips, put downs, jokes, on the First Ladies, it just comes with the territory.”
PowerFigure: Not my point COL. Anyone knows that stuff comes with the territory. Not a newsflash.
I am only interested in the nationally televised, insulting, namecalling, racial mocking put downs of sitting First Ladies, such as the attacks against our nation’s current First Lady, Michelle Obama. Send me those.
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Laromana, I agree with you , all I am saying is that some males being raised by a woman and she is the authority figure might have issues about that.
Men of all races can have issues about their mothers and it is a source of rebellion and mental anguish all their lives.It is rampant in literature , Hollywood and Eminem
As I said, those statements I made arnt meant to be generalisations just something that might play a part in some of the unjust black women bashings that I am reading about here.
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Peanut: “He couldn’t stand the fact that she was so confident and regal even in her slave state, so he did the best he could to humble her and break her down. She later was forced to have a child by him.”
PowerFigure: This is the psychology of my argument. Mental midgets/weak men use this tactic to try and “break” strong women, and–in my opinion, there are none stronger than Black women. Based on evidence I’ve observed, even in this forum, no other race of women has as many sworn enemies.
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Peanut: “Again I am NOT talking about all white men here at all. I am talking about a small segement of white male population, namely the most racist ones who seem to be obsessed with bw for no reason and at the same time seem to obsess over/ idolize bm…”
PowerFigure: Yeah. And why is it that some White families are more accepting of adopting a Black male child? I’m not talking about the Brad and Angies of the world, but the everyday JoeSchmoes. I think Black females represent some type of challenge for many that Black males do not. I’m still working on that psychoanalysis, but I’ll get it worked out.
I’m not a great advocate of Whites adopting Black children, but since no one is asking my permission, the question does intrigue me.
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Although other First Ladies may have sufferred criticisms, I have NEVER before seen the UNCALLED FOR/ANTI-BW RACIST/HATE filled type of attacks Michelle Obama has been subjected to (even before Barack became President).
I strongly believe that the attacks on Michelle Obama are a clear manifestation of the long standing, HISTORICALLY American ANTI-BW RACIST/HATE BW have always faced/continue to face in a country that has ALWAYS sought to promote ANTI-BW LIES/MYTHS/STEREOTYPES to TRASH the HUMANITY/DIGNITY/FEMININITY of BW.
There are MANY ANTI-BW RACIST/HATERS in America who can’t stand to see a BW who defies ALL of their IGNORANT STEREOTYPES. These ANTI-BW RACIST/HATERS are only happy when BW are being DEGRADED/DEMEANED/DISRESPECTED.
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At least for those of us who know, Michelle is an outstading beacon of beauty , inspiration, intelligence, charactor,strength and much more.
For sure someone who means that much to us is going to be severly attacked and maligned
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After reading through much of this discussion I MUST ADD… I am a Black woman and let me tell you, there is not a man on this earth that I do not walk about and get a double-take from. Black men, White men, Hispanic men, East Indian men, Asian men, you name it they all GAWK. So I do not know where the first few obviously inflammatory remarks came from but I am sure that the author himself would not be exempt from this list.
Honestly, I really think these men are simply intimidated by the rejection that awaits! They know Black women overwhelmingly prefer to date the men of their own race….that’s not say it has stopped “Tom” from approaching. What he will do is wait and make sure the coast is clear – he needs to know that you will even give him the time of day.
– What? You didn’t think I noticed those two White guys that moved in next door staring at me? LOL Too bad they don’t have a chance! Right along with that White guy that lives downstairs with his Asian girlfriend.
Don’t believe the HYPE.. I know that that #’s 3 – 7 are quite accurate.. but seriously, where is this guy coming from on #’s 1 and 2? Why don’t we ask Kerry Washington which “guerilla” she thinks she looks like?
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First Ladies being compared to zoo animals:
I can remember people not liking Hillary Clinton and Nancy Reagan and saying unkind things about them, but as far as I could tell no one saw them as some kind of zoo animal. If my memory fails me, then please remind me.
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Well Im sure not thinking its ok in any way for comparing Michelle to zoo animals.
Its disgusting, it sais more about the people who would do it.
I just dont put it past those skum. And it really does highlight the climate of racial hatred that is rising its ugly head now .
You know they are going to do anything they can to make Obama and Michelle look bad
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@abagond
HOW in the hell did you forget to put Barbara Bush on that list?!? She is like #1 lol
But seriously though, while your point is valid, its one thing to simply think these women are unattractive, it’s an ENTIRELY different thing when the comments are laced with racial overtones and epithets. No one Black is stupid enough not to understand what they are referring to when they compare the 1st Lady to an orangutang.
The problem in this country that is becoming increasingly noticeable is the apathy towards racial discrimination. It’s like it is acceptable these days. You do not have to go to far to discover this. Just take a look at all of the overtly racist cartoons being made about the president just because he is Black (i.e, watermelon patch, cops killing an ape etc). How can anyone condone this activity and not be racist themselves?
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i can tell you this right now….without doubt if I were a younger bw say 16,17 with low self-esteem, i would probably be cutting my wrist right now. the reason i say that is because w/ all this nonsens, threats and hatred towards bw going on in the media and on the internet, there is noway that the young vulnerable black girls reading this are not internalizing this racism, even in the most minute ways. i know that there are bw out there who already think they’re ugly just by virtue of the fact that they’re not white. This kind of stuff messes up people’s perceptions.
that is what kills me about michelle o attacks and what John Mayer said, its kills little black girls self esteem and damages their perception. Honestly, I wasn’t familiar w/ John Mayer at all and at first I didn’t care in t he least. But after reading a depressing response from bw and thinking about how hurt some young bw who looked up to him would be…it made me mad. It hurt me that some young, vulnerable black girl was going to be hurt by that and that made mad.
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@peanut:
AMEN!!!! *thunderous applause*
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im getting kinda scared if people say this stuff on the internet, i know sometimes people do troll and say things just to cause trouble,but for the people that seriously believe this stuff…that scares me
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Unreason Black Women are Seen as Ugly
“No. 2. They look too much like monkeys and gorillas. It has been shown that white people in the back of their minds think of monkeys when they see black people. So you see even Michelle Obama compared to a gorilla.”
PowerFigure
Even the way this post is written is, in my opinion, an insult against Black women. It presumes it is a defense of the idea that Black women look like monkeys to “White people” because these White people–in general it seems, simply “… in the back of their minds think of monkeys when they see Black people.”
Even monkeys and gorillas, I would argue, are usually smart enough not to confuse a human image with the image of a monkey or gorilla.
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i can tell you this right now….without doubt if I were a younger bw say 16,17 with low self-esteem, i would probably be cutting my wrist right now.
Peanut, with all due respect, if reading bullshit on the internet can drive someone to suicide, then they have serious problems that “self-esteem” isn’t going to solve.
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Peanut Said: “i can tell you this right now….without doubt if I were a younger bw say 16,17 with low self-esteem, i would probably be cutting my wrist right now. the reason i say that is because w/ all this nonsens, threats and hatred towards bw going on in the media and on the internet, there is noway that the young vulnerable black girls reading this are not internalizing this racism, even in the most minute ways. i know that there are bw out there who already think they’re ugly just by virtue of the fact that they’re not white. This kind of stuff messes up people’s perceptions.”
Thaddeus Said: Peanut, with all due respect, if reading bullshit on the internet can drive someone to suicide, then they have serious problems that “self-esteem” isn’t going to solve.
PowerFigure: Thaddeus, please read what Peanut said again. I’m sure you’re skimming quickly tonight, but it is only fair to respond to what someone actually said. Peanut gives a good explanation for her conclusion, and you focused in on maybe less than one-third of it, then offered your opinion.
For those who live in a bubble, cut off from anything other than contact with the Internet, that response would make sense. However, those of us who face institutionalized and practical racism that stalks and attacks from every nook and cranny of our lives, who also are consumers of mass media/broadcast and narrowcast media, including the Internet, we know that young Black girls who might have normal growing pains, including problems with low self-esteem, might be a bit more challenged than those who only have growing pains, without having their race and their self-image assaulted constantly.
Your response, in my opinion, is a “part of the problem” one, instead of a “part of the solution.” I’m sure most young Black women would never turn to suicide as a response to what, for them, is everyday life in good old America. Still, Peanut’s point, to me, is well taken.
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@Thaddeus
It is ABSOLUTELY NOT limited to the internet. I believe that Peanut was peaking hypothetically. It is EVERY DAMN WHERE! It is all over the place! So much more so than when I was a teenage girl (even though there is no way in hell you could call me ugly). It is what is manifested as beauty, and why so many young Black boys are somehow agreeing with this nonsense these days.
This is why I tell all Black people, LOVE THY SELF FIRST! We need to be more responsible in promoting ourselves and creating the images WE want to see as opposed to what we think others will approve.
It is so limited to the U.S. Being a person with background in a different part of the world, I can see that in America, being Black is crime. You never people here uplift the darker skinned sisters although they are just as beautiful as any light skinned sisters. But the promotion of anything “closest to White is beautiful” is what is wrong.
There was a young Black girl on Tyra, very cute brown skinned little girl who hated her looks because she wanted to look light skinned. She said the boys did not like her or even noticed her and that they all liked the light skinned girl. She also said that she wished she could be White or light.
So in a nutshell, not only is it ruining our daughters self-esteem, but also that of our SONS because they too are feeling as though Black is not beautiful and THAT is what creates a cycle.
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thaddeus, it isn’t just the internet, i remember beig made to feel second rate all throughout my school years. If you readmy posts about my hair issues, you would understand what i’m talking about…this internet stuff is just making it worse…I’m tired of seeing bm running up and down the football fields and bbal courts and looking to the sideline and seeing NO BLACK CHEERLEADERS or maybe one if we;re lucky. things like that u prolly don’t even notice i bet…
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Peanut, dont worry,I think young black women can handle what is going on today.
I might be mistaken , but,Jamin seems to be one of the younger girls on here, and she has a great atitude.
Maybe Dani
Maybe Islandgirl is young, and they all seem to be sharp and know what the deal is.
As a matter of fact, wouldnt you rather know what people are thinking so you can defend against it?
If anything, when I see racists on forums, it just reminds me to be vigilant and not let my guard down.They wouldnt say that in real life , but, it gives you a chance to see what kind of screwed up thoughts are still floating around.But also remember , they dont represent the majority of how people think.
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( sorry Jasmin, I was typing too fast and forgot the s…)
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ofcourse from your privileged position Thad, it might be harder for you to relate to this…but do you have any idea how stressful it is to not be able to speak your mind constantly for fear of being labeled “angry.” I remember one time in HS, this white guy made the comment “why do we have miss black america…i hate that…we don’t have miss WHITE america.” I was the only black person in the class. I remember wanting to say something so bad,but I couldn’t because then I would be angry and disrupting the class. Then when a white female whispered to him “shut up..can’t you see she’s black.” He said back to her “soo…she goes to school here.” Meaning/ implying that because i went to this white prep school, i guess i wasn’t REALLY black female, therefore it was okay for him to say these things infront of me.
Then in another instance, after the Don Imus incident, this white male “friend,” of mine says right in front of me…” i don’t see what the big deal about the Don Imus thing was…they blew that way out of proportion.” Then he glanced at me, with big eyes. Almost like he forgot that I was there or that I was black, either one. Either way, his insenstivity astounded me and I couldn’t say anything, because no one took me seriously.
Then there was another time when I was out at lunch w/ some white female friends and this white guy came to the table, who we knew from our classes, this white guy casually acknowledges all my white female friends…and conveniently forgets me…and I don’t get a hello or even a wave, i just sat there lookin like a damn fool while they chatted away. No one even notices…
Then another time when I was on a class trip , I got in a fight w/ one of my white female friends and we ended up not speaking for a couple days. I was crying right after the fight, people had to see me, no one says anything. A couple days before the end of the trip my friend comes up to me and tries to talk to me like nothing happened, hadn’t apologize or anything yet…so i wasn’t having it, i wanted an apology. next thing i know, she’s crying and people come and tell me she’s crying and we should talk etc. Okay, now I love my friend to death, and I don’t want to see her cry or anything and its not her fault that people ignored me and not her. But just the fact that only her pain was acknowledge irritated me. I went up to her and she apologized as did I and she was sincere…we made up and everything. But i sitll have not forgotten the reaction i got from those other girls,they weren’t my close friend, but they were classmates and I felt that my feelings were ignored. Now my close friends for the most part if I tell them my feelings are hurt and they’re aware of it , they will defend me and everything, but if they don’t notice then nothing is done.
It’s just the fact that little things like that make you feel invisible. I’m not even going to talk about how often teachers and white guys would get my named confused w/ the other 3 black girls in my grade. There’s only four of us and you can’t even keep 4 of us straight…come on!
I just felt ignored alot and at the same time i had to conform to this ideal image, i had to go out of my way to eb submissive and keep my mouth shut in order to get the best treatment possible. All my black girlfriends who stood up for themselves got a bad rep that followed them all throughout school. But i was labeled as one of the “good ones,” the “saef ones…” the one they print on the school pamphlet to emphasize how “diverse,” and “accepting” they were. The one who they kept up front because I got good grades, was on honor roll, did a whole lot of extracurriculars and most importantly I kept my mouth shut.
I got called “white girl” in a black girls body by a white female classmate. Things like that…will stress you out and take a toll on you because you know in order to get ahead you have to play the “happy negress,” role or you’ll be labeled as “militant,” and “angry.” But I guess you wouldn’t understand what that feels like…
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…and Ill tell you, I note that there are a bunch of girls on here that have a self confidence in their apearance and character.
I get that , especialy because all that has gone down in the past and that has been passed on down by wise people before them, these girls can stand up and look at racism straight in the face and beat it back!!
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Peanut, your post came in while I was writing…
Im really sorry to hear that you have to go through that .Prep school, my god, people in there have so much to learn about life
I only hope you will see through their phonyness and not be too bitter as you go out in life.
We all pay the piper one way or the other,life will balance out , they all will be stung with some kind of life pain sonner or later. Maybe your experiance is somthing you will be able to help someone with later on down the line….
I wish I could give you a hug…
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One thing that they did at my prep school in terms of the black students was…they would keep a few black students up front in the limelight for good measures. These were “The pick of the litter,” black students. They would put all their efforts and attention into this small group and the rest they would neglect and ignore. Then when the visiting students came, they would make sure that “the good ones,” were seen so people would know how minority friendly they were…
Then in terms of the black male students…we had a brother school that was closeby and they would basically do the same thing, only they recruited them for sports. They would take black guys ( the boys school had a higher percentage of black students in our grade than ours)and they would pick 3 or so and push them into being student-athletes. Now this was not the type of situation where they would pamper the student-athletes and give them passes on academics. These black male student athletes were really the pick of the litter. They got good grades and played their sports. But, there was a catch, they would get all the encouragement and support necessary provided they made the football/bball team look good and continued to get good grades etc… They literally had to be twice as good as the non-black students. If you were just an average black guy at the school, you weren’t particularly good in sports & your grades were mediocre. Life was made to be hell for you. It was like as long as your out on the field and making them look good, they were nice to you. But if you were just an average dude…they had no use for you, so they neglected you or made your life miserable.
The teachers would pick on them in classes. One guy got expelled for borrowing a baseball mitt and he gave it back before he was even told to. They got harshly punished. But that small group of the “pick of the litter,” black guys were always there to make it seem like they weren’t racist.
They were awesome by the way, one of their “picks,” was this Jamaican guy, he was the nicest, intelligent, sweetest guy I’ve met. He liked black girls alot, he was so nice to us. But he was being used to further an image and I think he knew that…
It’s just a different world and I can’t expect people who have not walked in my shoes to see and feel things the way I do as a bw…
Btw, I am thankful for my education at the school, i got a good education and I don’t think they were evil or intentionally racist, they just couldn’t see what I saw and it was just like some were so stuck in their own world/ mindest they didn’t even realize how hard it was for me and the other black students. They just didn’t see it…
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“Peanut, dont worry,I think young black women can handle what is going on today.”
ARE YOU SURE? Because what I see are young girls growing into women that are scrambling to look like anything BUT Black. The “weave” has become much more popular in the last decade due to the continual promotion of what can be seen as self-hatred.
We’ve all seen what Lil’ Kim did to her face… and how many sista’s have chopped off their noses in the industry? From Vivica, to Tyra, to Kimora, to Kelly and Beyonce and even Solange whose nose was already sharpened. What message are we sending our youth?
If you really think they are “handling it” you had better think again. We have no way of predicting how this will be handled as the new generation becomes adults. It behooves us to address this issue seriously and get a handle on it NOW or we will breed another generation that will go through this again.
I also think those remarks are DISMISSIVE and avoids the real issue. Besides who thinks they can determine what these young Black girls can handle?
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I’d have to say probably the preppy white guys were the meanest when I was in school. Some of them were mean, there were a few that liked black girls and they were nice. one even dated one of my friends, the other dated a dark sicilian girl. He was nice to black girls but his parents didn’t want him to be w/ black girls in a relationship. He was nice , but I wasn’t that friendly w/ him. Some of them were just jerks though. Some just had this superior attitude about them. I think it was because maybe they came from the country-club, upper, middle-upper crust of society. Some of them were like this, not all of them.
The black guys were nicer to us than white guys. I don’t know what is going on w/ some bm today, cuz the ones I knew atleast treated us decently. I may have to go back to my hometown if I want to marry a black man. They were awesome for the most part. Ofcourse you had a few who exclusively dated non-bw, but they weren’t mean to bw though. The vast majority did prefer bw.
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” We have no way of predicting how this will be handled as the new generation becomes adults. It behooves us to address this issue seriously and get a handle on it NOW or we will breed another generation that will go through this again.”
They are the ones promoting exclusive interracial dating probably. I support interracial relationship when its for love, but I don’t exclude bm. Any man that is nice to me will do. Some of these pro-interracial bw though, really just have issues w/ bm, which makes me think they have issues with themselves and their own color.
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MoniQTee
“I also think those remarks are DISMISSIVE and avoids the real issue. Besides who thinks they can determine what these young Black girls can handle?”
PowerFigure
Dismissive is right. Thanks MoniQTee. Well said, especially for those of us who have to face these issues on a daily basis. We can’t dismiss it, because it is our life.
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I am not against adopting kids who need love, but I do get offended when westerners think they’r rescuing the poor black child from savagery. I don’t know it just rubs me the wrong way.
WHy do people insist on further separating black children from their cultures under the guise that they’re simply trying to help. It’s like become a fad in hollywood to adopt black children, it irritates the hell out of me. racism in it ultimate form actually.
Instead of swooping in to rescue the poor black children from the “savagness,” of their black culture, why not do some work to eradicate the institutionalized racism that causes the hardship these people swoop in to resuce them from in the first place.
WHy not try and help the family get back on their feet so they can stay together??? WHy not pour some money that was STOLEN from Haiti into their economy. WHy not support fair trade, and stop buying these products that perpetuate sweat shops and slavery over in these countries, then maybe people could afford to adequately support their kids…
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another thing that gets me is…why don’t some of these people adopt american black children?? why are they always going to africa and the carribean to “rescue,” these kids??? I’ll tell you why because to adopt a poor black child from an american ghetto would demonstrate the fact that it is not black’s inferiority that is the problem, its racism that is perpetuated by their own culture that is. It would reflect the fact that the one thing blacks in american and abroad have in common is oppression. that would explain why some black families have no choice but to give up their childnre for adoption. because this racist system puts them in a position where they have no choice…
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that is why i hated tha nonsensed depiction of “the blind side.” its supposed to be all post-racial happy nonsense…please.
Just the fact that they had to make a damn movie like that in the first place says to me we aren’t past racism at all…
not every black guy can grow up to be a professional athlete and for the ones that can’t where is their chance at life??? WHy didn’t that movie touch on how institutionalize racism cause that man to be in the position where he couldn’t read well, his mother was on drugs in the first damn place???They didn’t touch on the real issues at all. Instead they just painted the picture that black were barabric, bw are crack mothers and bm lust after ww.
I was offended by that movie. Highly offended. I’m not going against what that family did in reality because I don’t know them. But from what I saw in the depiction of the movie was nonsense. It was a feel-good, racist, minstrel type show to make racists feel good about themselves.
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******”You gotta wonder why some whites are so enthusiastic to adopt black children when their society as a whole hates black people altogether in the first place.”*******
They *adopt* them to *adapt* them.
It’s all part of the grand scheme of conquering a race. You come at them from all angles. This is why you see them promoting interracial dating in the Black race like no other. “If we can not kill them off, we will BREED them off.” Who do think those adopted Black children will grow up and marry?
In order to understand these people, you must first think like them.
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****I know that is another thing that makes whites angry.
A black man in the white house AND a black man who has a white mother that doesn’t even look white in the white house.****
Once again my sister, you are right on POINT.
I once read somewhere a White woman state “but he comes from a White womb.”
It should tell her something that a Black man raised in the states with his White family still feels MORE connected to his Black roots.
He told the story of a White woman he was dating before he met Michelle. He said he was all set to be with this woman and then he went to meet her family and although they were nice to him, he simply did not feel comfortable nor did he feel as though he were connected and for that reason alone, he would not marry her and ended the relationship.
That is a very powerful thing coming from a man who was raised by his all White family. That says one hell of a lot my sister.
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@ Peanut:
I liked your comment about your school. I can so see that.
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@ MoniQTee:
Excellent point about Obama considering himself black despite his white upbringing. That speaks volumes about how racist whites are.
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Obama can consider himself whatever he wants. He can consider himself white if he wants, but that doesn’t change the fact American people would see him as a black man. Not mixed, black.
I must admit I see Obama as mixed. I respect his personal identity but my own views on cultures and society make me see him as mixed. It has nothing to what he looks like. He is clearly of African descent (I don’t know what are rules for passing, but I don’t think he could pass for white). The funny thing is, he does look a lot like his maternal grandfather (at least to me), who was white.
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Powerfigure sez:
Thaddeus, please read what Peanut said again. I’m sure you’re skimming quickly tonight, but it is only fair to respond to what someone actually said. Peanut gives a good explanation for her conclusion, and you focused in on maybe less than one-third of it, then offered your opinion.
No, PF, I did indeed read Peanut’s post. Do you truly think media brainwashes people to the point where they’ll cut their wrists? Sure, maybe a few folks who have serious problems otherwise, but I don’t think this is the real issue.
Peanut sez:
thaddeus, it isn’t just the internet, i remember beig made to feel second rate all throughout my school years.
Sure, now that I’ll buy. You’re cooped up 40 hours a week in a school where real people treat you like dirt, every day of the week. Yeah, that could drive someone over the brink.
What I don’t buy is “the media does it” argument.
ofcourse from your privileged position Thad, it might be harder for you to relate to this…but do you have any idea how stressful it is to not be able to speak your mind constantly for fear of being labeled “angry.”
Peanut, you have not even the slightest idea of what my position is. It’s not very “privileged”. You’re simply making a rhetorical statement without anything to back it up. You believe that “white’ is priveleged to “black”, “male” to “female” and think that those generalizations give you an adequate basis to situate me with regards to you.
Furthermore, “privilege” isn’t some sort of homogenous thing one has: one can be priveleged in some ways and not in others.
I’d lay dollars to donuts, for example, that you have significantly more economic privilege than I do. I’d also bet that you have far more political privileges than I do. As an immigrant, I have been jerked up, down and sideways more times than I care to remember. I have very few rights – even in a country which is notorious for not caring much about rights.
On the other hand, I’m “privileged” to have a PhD and a fairly well paying job within the context in which I actually live… for now, that is. But this is a very recent and very fragile state of affairs.
With regards to high school, I was hardly “privileged”. No need to go into old history here, but the concept that somehow I related to those cheerleaders and football players you are going on about simply because we shared the same ethnic background is ridiculous. That’s not how human solidarity works in the real world, Peanut.
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Obama is not even close to passing. Only when you can pass for white is a decision about being white even possible in America.
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Obama is not even close to passing. Only when you can pass is a decision about your race even possible in America.
I get that. I wrote “I am not sure if he could pass” because I didn’t know if he could. He can’t pass for white to me, but my criteria isn’t the right one here. There are many people that are “clearly white” to me, but I learned they are not considered as such in America. That’s why I had to ask about Obama.
So are you trying to say Obama didn’t have a choice? If you look “clearly” black, white or Asian, you can’t choose? But if you don’t, then you can pass (choose your race). I guess most of the people who can pass still choose white.
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Mira said:
“So are you trying to say Obama didn’t have a choice? If you look “clearly” black, white or Asian, you can’t choose?”
Right.
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“I also think those remarks are DISMISSIVE and avoids the real issue. Besides who thinks they can determine what these young Black girls can handle”
MoniQtee First of all, I made those comments based on opinions Ive read right here on this forum, from women who strike me as having sharp minds and a good philosophy about how to face racism.
Facing racism is a lot differant than cosmetic choices by celebrities . Or even women in general. Women in general are extremly hyper aware of changing their visual, I dont get at all that many of these choices are trying to look like white women.
I also made those comments at seeing how obviously upset Peanut was at things she was seeing on here or other places on the the internet.
Hearing refreshing honest straight up comments by many black women on here makes me wonder if you really can determine what young black girls cant handle
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@ Mira (cont’d):
In an amazing twist of history, white American slave owners overturned both common sense and English law and wanted their children by black women to become slaves. That still lives on as the One Drop Rule, which still orders American society even though the slaves have been freed for over a hundred years.
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“I’d also bet that you have far more political privileges than I do. As an immigrant, I have been jerked up, down and sideways more times than I care to remember. I have very few rights – even in a country which is notorious for not caring much about rights.”
heard that
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In an amazing twist of history, white American slave owners overturned both common sense and English law and wanted their children by black women to become slaves.
That is one of the most horrible things. I mean, yes, enslaving people is horrible, but for some reason it seems even more horrible when you do that to your own child. Your own child. It even doesn’t make any biological sense, not to mention human feelings.
I am not a hard core feminist or something, but I sometimes wonder if if would be different with female slave owners and black male slaves. Would a mother make a slave of her own baby? I guess something in me sees mothers as “better” and more dedicated parents (as a whole). But then again, maybe I’m wrong. Maybe it would be the same.
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Fathers tend to be more cold-hearted than mothers, but wanting to see your very own children become slaves is way beyond even that.
It also goes beyond all those white arguments about how “natural” slavery and racism are. And you know it because they had to overturn English law to do it.
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I don’t understand the above…although there were laws in place, and if we broaden the issue of slavery to West Indies etc.
Although there were laws was it not up to the individual slavemaster whether they accepted their offspring or not.
Some did, some did not for a variety of reason??
This reminds me of some slave narratives on how evil the wife could be toward her slaves and their offsprings, but that is yet another issue
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Thad:
Are you saying that because you know what it is like to be poor or foreign you know it is like to be black?
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I’m saying that I know what it’s like to be told to shut up and have no recourse at all to rights. I’m saying I that if my life is “privileged”, those privileges are damned few and far between and don’t qualify as an overall froasting of sugary goodness on my life that removes me from all understanding or empathy with the so-called “underprivileged”.
The problem here is binary and reductionist thought, Abagond. The belief that complicated human lives can be reduced to one or two (at most three) variables and reliably compared along a quantitiative scale (“better” vs. “worse”) on those alone.
Privilege doesn’t work that way. Provably so.
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I do believe there are many discriminated whites. First of all, those who are white but not recognized as such. Second of all, the “low class” whites in history (even today?) I don’t think being poor is fun for anyone. Being an immigrant is not fun for anyone. Living in a country that is an enemy to America is not fun if America starts a war with your country, be it populated with white people or not.
I am not sure if black people realize being born white is not enough. Sure, you can say whites don’t understand being born black is enough (to be discriminated). Fair enough. I get that. However, I don’t think being born white automatically means you won’t be discriminated against. Being born middle class heterosexual male WASP in America, maybe. Maybe not even that.
People need to realize how the system works. Black people get discriminated just because they are black. Whites don’t seem to understand this. But I don’t think black people realize being white is not enough to live a life free of discrimination. Or black people do understand, but believe discrimination against them if worse?
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I’ve suffered many forms of discrimination. I happen to be white with a lot of unique perspectives, primarily from all the diverse experiences I’ve had; however, to say a white person cannot suffere racial or ethnic discrimination is absurd.
Discrimination comes in many forms…
Stereotypical Discrimanations that a Black American may assume a White person would never experience: (yet I have….)
1. Been unable to catch a cab based on my ethnicity
2. Been followed in store with ever watchful eyes because people assumed I might steal something…
3. Unable to get into a club because of my nationality…
4. Told to “get out” of a club because of the color of my skin.
and the list goes on…..
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Here’s what I think:
Americans, in general, believe that whatever particular group they belong to has it worse than all the others. This is true whether its blacks talking about how only “their” slavery was the “real” slavery, jews talking about how only “their” holocaust was a “real” genocide, or WASPs talking about how everyone hates “their” country because they are “jealous” of “their” achievements. To be American means to choose a myth of trial and tribulation and believe in eventual triumph over said trials, but only for the “chosen” people, which certainly isn’t the nation as a whole.
Americans, in general, believe that they carry about an “essence” which can only truly be preceived or understood by people who are exactly like them (even though it should be blindingly obvious that no one is exactly like anyone else).
Americans believe that each crime or problem in their particular identitary group’s past makes their experience as special and unique as a snowflake. While doing this, they tend to lose track of the fact that the world is caught in one hell of a blizzard.
Americans, the world’s richest and most privileged people, by and large consider themselves to be sorely put upon. This is true whatever their gender, color, or religion. The U.S. is a society that’s carrying a round a heavy charge of cultural anger and it’s anyone’s guess why this is so.
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A problem with much of the commentary on this blog is that it has a fatalistic view of racial disadvantage. Yes, many whites look down on and discriminate against blacks. Does that mean, though, that blacks are eternally consigned to second class status? I don’t think so. Based on personal experience, it seems that many whites also have unkind opinions of Asians. However, Chinese, Koreans, and other Asian groups in the US are flourishing economically and socially. Whites view them as racial others, but respect them nonetheless because of their demonstrated competence. I think non-white minorities would do well to try to emulate East Asians.
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Thad,
Here’s what I think (about what you said):
Americans, in general, believe that whatever particular group they belong to has it worse than all the others.
Wrong. It’s not just Americans. People here are the same and, from what I can tell, people always believe “their” group has it worse than all the others. I am not sure about Brazil, but that is certainly not an “American” cultural trait.
Americans, in general, believe that they carry about an “essence” which can only truly be preceived or understood by people who are exactly like them (even though it should be blindingly obvious that no one is exactly like anyone else).
I don’t know if this is an American thing but, yes, I did notice that. Even here, it looks like many people (including the blog owner) believe it’s impossible to understand someone else’s situation/problem/suffering if a person doesn’t belong to the same group as you.
What I’m saying is, I don’t think the reason behind the discrimination is important (whether it’s your race, gender, religion, etc). If you were discriminated, you are able to understand what’s a discrimination. The reason behind it is not important. Hey, even if you were never discriminated, I do believe you’re able to understand the mechanism behind it.
The problem is not being unable to understand. The problem is the lack of interest.
So, why are there so many racist and sexist white males? Is that because those people aren’t black and female OR because they simply don’t care?
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“In an amazing twist of history, white American slave owners overturned both common sense and English law and wanted their children by black women to become slaves. That still lives on as the One Drop Rule, which still orders American society even though the slaves have been freed for over a hundred years.”
There was variation in how the children of slave owners were treated.
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“So are you trying to say Obama didn’t have a choice? If you look “clearly” black, white or Asian, you can’t choose? But if you don’t, then you can pass (choose your race). I guess most of the people who can pass still choose white.”
Non-Hispanic people with any visible African ancestry tend to be categorized (and thus categorize themselves) as just black in the US. There’s a subset of black-white mixes who are maybe somewhere around 1/4 black, look Mediterranean, and don’t have obvious African ancestry. This is the group under the most stress from the US binary racial system and who have had trouble integrating into any racial group. In the 1990s, many started to use new terms like “multiracial” to describe themselves. In light of American history, the idea of someone of part African ancestry identifying as white was unthinkable, so black and multiracial were viewed as the only options. I think it has only been in the last few years that the light mixes have started to identify as white. I believe this has much to do with the growing acceptance of pure white people.
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Thad, your life may not be easy and I’m not saying wp don’t have problems…clearly they do. But you do recognize that you have privileges just for being white dont you?
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i’m sorry there are privileges that people get just from being white.I’m not saying life is a bed of roses, but I will give a statistic example. I know this from one of the my classes, black and whites who are of equal economic backgrounds, same employment, same socio-economic status. Studies have shown that even at the same level, blacks still have a higher incidence of hypertension and CVD. At the same level, whites still make more money on avg. than blacks on the same level. I will go through my notes and I will find that study and the others to show you that this is true. There IS privilege that comes just from being white in this world…there is. Sorry.
Also, a more personal example. I have a friend who lived with her mother. Her parents are divorced, now her dad does make good money, but her mother does not. So just based solely off her mom’s income. My family is more well-off (discount her father for now) so she worked at this nice gourmet grocer and I needed a job. So, she told me to ask the manager for a job there. I did, this was my senior year in HS and I need summer work. He basically said…” well I’m really looking for someone who can work throughout the year and who is not getting ready to leave for college.” Being naive, I was thinking “okay, understandable, no prob. I’ll look elsewhere.” Didn’t think anything of it. Come to find later, my friend says to nonchalantl…”oh yeah my boss keeps hiring people…he keeps taking on these people. He hired one person for2 mons. she’s about to go off to college.” Suddenly…it hit me like a mad truck. I realized why I didn’ get the job and sure enough…not one bp in that store. So now she has a guarenteed job lined up for her EVERY summer she comes home. She even told me “i’m set throughout college.” There’s another example for you.
Now I will admit having professional parents and being able to pursue a college education gives me privilege, absolutely…I am very very fortunate. But, that doesn’t mean there is not privilege just by virtue of someone’s whiteness. Not saying wp have it easy or don’t experience discrimination, but being white for the most part, no matter what income level, does give you a certain degree of privilege. that is all im saying.
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B.R. said:
****”MoniQtee First of all, I made those comments based on opinions Ive read right here on this forum, from women who strike me as having sharp minds and a good philosophy about how to face racism.”*****
AHHHHH.. but we are NOT talking about women…we are talking about girls, young girls and teenage girls.
And as another poster pointed out, there is a silent WAR being waged about Black women and I know it is not in my head nor in her head either.
AS A BLACK WOMAN I can tell you that is is much more hurtful today than it was decade or two ago. It is NOT the same because NOW our OWN MEN are willing participants in this self-racist point-of-view.
So it’s no “first of all” B.R. If you are not a Black woman, you are NOT qualified to make that statement.
I found it offensive and quite dismissive. It is just like what White people do, practice racism, and then say that it does not exist.
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Thad, I am not saying this to belittle your circumstances or say you don’t experience discrimination or hardship. I don’t know that because I’m not you. What I am saying is there is a degree of privilege that comes w/ being white regardless. Imagine if you had to deal w/ all your hardship and in addition deal w/the hardship of being black in a racist society on top of that.
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Mira said:
******”I get that. I wrote “I am not sure if he could pass” because I didn’t know if he could. He can’t pass for white to me, but my criteria isn’t the right one here. There are many people that are “clearly white” to me, but I learned they are not considered as such in America. That’s why I had to ask about Obama.
So are you trying to say Obama didn’t have a choice? If you look “clearly” black, white or Asian, you can’t choose? But if you don’t, then you can pass (choose your race). I guess most of the people who can pass still choose white.”*********
Sure they do Mira. I come from a mixed family. My family is from Central America. I have an uncle in fact several that obviously look very close to White… One seems CONFUSED and the other just said to hell with it and went to claim he is White…, But its deeper than that. My uncle is an extremely intelligent man. I mean he is borderline genius if not genius, and my family coming from a tiny country in the Caribbean where racism is not practiced, coming here was an eye opener for them. He decided to join the military (this is during the 70’s when racism was much more rampant) and when he took the test he scored he extremely high – so much so he made the Los Angeles Times. They promised him so many things upon joining the military but upon his arrival, absolutely NOTHING went the way it was planned. He was stuck in some crap job that harnessed nothing of his intelligence.
Well to make a long story short, when he came out he was a different person. He began to identify himself as White because he could pass. His experience in the Military led him to realize that being White is just MUCH EASIER. Today he has children for a White Greek woman and you bet your buppy his kids, my cousins look White. And you know what he identifies them as don’t you?
He stayed away from our family, he does not come around. He told his wifes family that he was adopted. BUT… he did say that my great-grandma who IS White is his grandmother.
Do you know why people do this? Because of all of the hatred in this world. My uncle was shut out of opportunities in the Military because he was Black.. or mixed or Black.. or whatever they call it in the States, where we come from we are called Kriol or in the US they say Creole;however we are not of the same French background as them.
He went through some kind of hell in the military – just like my father did who was also from our country in the Caribbean. My father is now deceased because of the joining the Military in the U.S. during the same decade of the 70’s. Because he was obviously a mixed man with an accent, he was mistreated and used for experimental purposes (now my father looked mixed but he could not pass for White – so there you have it.)
But I digress, people will do this because it is part of survival. I think it is horrible and says volumes about our society. I used to think my uncle did it because he hated being Black… but now I know the truth.
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Peanut said:
“He basically said…” well I’m really looking for someone who can work throughout the year and who is not getting ready to leave for college.” Being naive, I was thinking “okay, understandable, no prob. I’ll look elsewhere.” Didn’t think anything of it. “
I got that too and was equally naive.
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i’m sorry there are privileges that people get just from being white.
I am not sure if this is the case. So why half of the Caucasian people are not even recognized as whites in the US? (Middle Eastern people, South Asians…) Why are muslims of any colour discriminated against? Why are white immigrants discriminated against?
Peanut, I am not trying to start an oppression Olympics here, and yes, I understand what you’re talking about. However, I do believe you see “white” as a very narrow group. Maybe that’s the prevalent American thinking, I don’t know (so it’s not like I’m trying to start a fight here).
But when I said “being white isn’t enough” I meant on world population as a whole.
In short, I am not saying black people are not discriminated for being black. I am saying simply being white (in a way of not being black or Asian) is not enough to get privilege.
I could say Americans are privileged in so many ways. But to think that you’re privileged simply for being an American is an ignorant way of thinking. How dare Abagond write about discrimination? He is an American, after all! If he has money and time, he can travel wherever he wants. He can visit Greece, Italy, Brazil, Egypt, Japan. No questions asked. His country is the most powerful in the world, and its culture and values are (subtly and less than subtly) forced upon the rest of the world. So how could he be discriminated???
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Peanut:
Good point: very few people live a charmed life, but in addition to all the regular bad stuff that everyone gets blacks have racism layered on top of it.
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“I am not sure if this is the case. So why half of the Caucasian people are not even recognized as whites in the US? (Middle Eastern people, South Asians…) Why are muslims of any colour discriminated against? Why are white immigrants discriminated against?”
The answer is Mira because those people are NOT white. “White,” is a social construction. They may be classified as white or look white, but they’re not white. Also, in my experience, non-white muslims are far more discriminated against than the white european ones. Iraqi or Iranians are seldom considered white in my experience. If you broke them down into 3 races asians, white and blacks, actually I think they would be considered asian not white anyway.
My lebanese friend tried to pass herself off as white, she was beige and the white students at my school were quick to correct her on that one…
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@Mira,
Please don’t trust all of this rhetoric on this blog about “passing for white” and “running from your blackness.” In many cases, mixed kids are treated as punching bags by black kids angry about mistreatment by whites. Alot of multiracials are scared by both white and black racism. W
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“Peanut, I am not trying to start an oppression Olympics here, and yes, I understand what you’re talking about. However, I do believe you see “white” as a very narrow group. Maybe that’s the prevalent American thinking, I don’t know (so it’s not like I’m trying to start a fight here).
But when I said “being white isn’t enough” I meant on world population as a whole.
In short, I am not saying black people are not discriminated for being black. I am saying simply being white (in a way of not being black or Asian) is not enough to get privilege.
I could say Americans are privileged in so many ways. But to think that you’re privileged simply for being an American is an ignorant way of thinking. How dare Abagond write about discrimination? He is an American, after all! If he has money and time, he can travel wherever he wants. He can visit Greece, Italy, Brazil, Egypt, Japan. No questions asked. His country is the most powerful in the world, and its culture and values are (subtly and less than subtly) forced upon the rest of the world. So how could he be discriminated???”
Response:
No, I’m not trying to start an oppression olympics either. I respect your opinion, but I also think people need to try and understand white privilege and in my experience, not enough people accept that there is such a thing. The term “white” changes throughout time. In america, white usually means mostly anglo-saxon descent. So middle-easterns are not considered white,with the exception of maybe some Israelis,depending on other factors. In fact there is a movement to get people of middle-eastern descent their own category on the census because the treatment is not the same to the white europeans…so by all means and standards they are not considered “white,” maybe someday they will be.
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Wrong. It’s not just Americans. People here are the same and, from what I can tell, people always believe “their” group has it worse than all the others. I am not sure about Brazil, but that is certainly not an “American” cultural trait.
Agreed. But rarely does this get culturally enabled to the degree that it does among Americans and rarely has a people had less reason to b#$%h about there lot.
Mira, seriously: many Americans think, for example, that certain Serbians hate the U.S. because said Serbians are “jealous” of the U.S. These same Americans think 9/11 happened because Al Quaeda was “envious” of the U.S. American politicans actually say these things in public and, instead of being laughed at, get thoughtful nods from people.
So, why are there so many racist and sexist white males? Is that because those people aren’t black and female OR because they simply don’t care?
Because they simply don’t care. They DON’T feel any personal or collective debt to black people and it’s useless to try to make them feel that way.
Peanut sez:
But you do recognize that you have privileges just for being white dont you?
Sure. The problem though, Peanut, is that you seem to want to turn that situation into a be-all, end-all description of my world view and situation in it. YOU have immense privileges just because you speak English and are computer literate, but if I were to say that makes you incapable of understanding another’s oppression, you’d find that pretty damned stupid, wouldn’t you?
You get privileges just from being an American, Peanut. Imagine having to deal with all you’re dealing with and not being an American.
This is the sort of “my oppression makes me a special, unique snowflake, utterly incomprehendable in my pain and despair” arguement that I simply do not buy. Go sell it to emos, man.
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Mira said:
*******”I must admit I see Obama as mixed. I respect his personal identity but my own views on cultures and society make me see him as mixed. It has nothing to what he looks like. He is clearly of African descent (I don’t know what are rules for passing, but I don’t think he could pass for white). The funny thing is, he does look a lot like his maternal grandfather (at least to me), who was white.”******
But Mira, by looking at me, you would not consider me mixed although I am.
Black Americans or African Americans get upset when I say that I am a Belizean American. I say this because it what I identify with. Ethnically I am a Belizean, by race however, I am not confused I am Black just like Obama. But also, like Obama, I was raised by my White grandmother too. No one says that I am mixed raced although I have many different indigenous backgrounds.
Now the interesting is how different people conceptualize what is mixed. Around Black people, they simply say I am Black while having no knowledge of who I am, and get offended if I say I am not African American (which is a foolish term because every Black person in America is not necessarily even American).
BUT… there is a continuously growing group of East Indian or Hindu people that are living in America. Most of them can be found around the more decorated universities like UCLA and USC. Well I used to work for UCLA’s graduate school and so I found myself surrounded by them. When I would walk in the hallway these students would either smile very brightly at me, OR a good majority of them would give me mean stares and dirty looks.
I did not take it personal at first because I was unaware of what was going on but then after awhile, it became too noticeable. So one day I came home and I found myself looking in the mirror. Suddenly like a BOOM, it dawned on me what was going on… these people, these East Indians were looking at me thinking I was HALF East Indian, and well I can see why.
I have a dark red complexion but with yellow undertones just like them… My hair is very strong and thick and naturally jet Black in colour. I NEVER KNEW that it was that obvious until a separate group of people from another part of the world silently pointed it out to me. The ones who were giving me dirty looks did it in disgust because they thought I was half Black and half East Indian.
The truth is I am mixed with Indian blood but it is Mayan Indian. I do believe I have East Indian blood but I believe it was my great great grandparents who were East Indian. I also have Spanish blood, and so my point is my jet Black hair could have come from any one of those blood lines.
I however am offended by THEIR NOTION because they do not know me, all they know is they do not like Black people and the thought of what they *think* is half of them is what bothers them.
So I guess what I am trying to say to you is people identify by CULTURE…not by how they look. Obama says he is Black because that is the CULTURE that he identifies with and that is understandable.
When I am in Belize, I am just a Belizean and no one asks me what I am mixed with because at the end of the day, we consider ourselves Black Kriols.
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excuse me, mediterraneans are generally considered “white,” as well. although at one time italians weren’t accepted as white same w/ the irish.
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Wow, this is starting to turn into a “Go back to Africa” argument: blacks in America should shut up already because they have it better than people in Africa:
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well, i’m sorry if i offended you thad.
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FG:
“@Mira,
****Please don’t trust all of this rhetoric on this blog about “passing for white” and “running from your blackness.” In many cases, mixed kids are treated as punching bags by black kids angry about mistreatment by whites. Alot of multiracials are scared by both white and black racism. W”*****
IT is NOT just mixed children, but light skinned Blacks too. I went through it when I was a kid for having long hair and being on the lighter end…HOWEVER, NO BLACK PERSON EVER TOLD ME THAT I COULD NOT SAY I WAS BLACK.. NOT EVER and that is the DIFFERENCE.
The fact that is light skinned Blacks too means that the “Willie Lynch” worked very well and SO, it goes right back to WHITE supremacy and racism.
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The argument that “My oppression is worse because I have all this bad stuff AND, on top of that, I have to deal with being X” is, indeed, the classic Oppression Olympics gambit.It presumes that theere’s a clear-cut and reductionist algebra of oppression when there is no such thing.
Abagond feels he can understand racism in way that I simply can’t and never can because he’s black and I’m not.
Ah, but he’s a man, isn’t he?
So that means Peanut must logically understand oppression in a way that Abagond never, ever can fathom because she’s a woman.
Oh, but then Peanut’s (presumably) straight. So she doesn’t really understand oppression. She has all that het privilege backing her up. Only a black LESBIAN can really understand what it`s like to not be privileged.
Ah, but said lesbian is able in mind and body, isn`t she? She`s got more privileges than she can count. Why right over here I have a black lesbian who`s HIV positive, manic depressive AND a single-parent mother of an HIV positive child! Top that, agony sisters!
And on and on…
What this sort of discourse inevitably does is short circuit the ONLY adequate strategy whereby any part of this oppression can ever be addressed and that is through empathy and alliance-building.
This, to my mind, is why this sort of discourse is so popular in the U.S. today. It is MUCH less threatening to engage in the Olympics of Oppression than it is to try and build meaningful bridges between excluded peoples. This, to my mind, is why all your American public schools fill your brains to the brimk with the idea that your precious “identities” and “heritages” are so unique and incomensurate.
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“I am not sure if this is the case. So why half of the Caucasian people are not even recognized as whites in the US? (Middle Eastern people, South Asians…) Why are Muslims of any colour discriminated against? Why are white immigrants discriminated against?”
Being Caucasian, in American, does not equate to whiteness. In the US you are white in the purest sense of the word. Here you pretty much have to be an Anglo-Saxon to be deemed white. Even dark Italians and Greeks are discriminated against because of there skin despite being white. Middle Easterners are considered Asians, not white. The reason why this is the case is because ‘white’ people in the US didnt want any people of color (Caucasian or not) taking part in white privilege. What good is being ‘white’ when Dravidian, Semites, and other colored Caucasians that dont look like you garner the same benefits?
It was just easier back then to define whiteness and strictly European and label everyone else as colored.
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“Oh, but then Peanut’s (presumably) straight. So she doesn’t really understand oppression. She has all that het privilege backing her up. Only a black LESBIAN can really understand what it`s like to not be privileged.”
exactly..Thad. you got it.
But the point is not who understands what, that doesn’t change the fact that the privilege is in fact there whether you understand it or not. so let’s not talk around the fact that the privilege is there to begin w/ or derail…
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I can’t understand what its like to be a lesbian. I can only see things as a straight bw in America…exactly you got it thad. I can empathize w/ a struggle, but until I’ve lived it, I will never completely understand…
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“Black Americans or African Americans get upset when I say that I am a Belizean American. I say this because it what I identify with. Ethnically I am a Belizean, by race however, I am not confused I am Black just like Obama. But also, like Obama, I was raised by my White grandmother too. No one says that I am mixed raced although I have many different indigenous backgrounds.”
You should know that one of the current goals of the multiracial movement is to break the link between phenotype and ethnicity. The idea is that you should be able to identify by your ethnicity rather than your race. So in an ideal world, someone like you could publicly identify as Belizean rather than “black” (whatever that means).
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Abagond sez:
Wow, this is starting to turn into a “Go back to Africa” argument: blacks in America should shut up already because they have it better than people in Africa…
Hey Abagond, how about you be intellectually honest and look at what I really said? I said ALL Americans complain about how they are sorely misunderstood and set upon by the world. It ain’t a specialty of black americans and I don’t think americans needs must go anywhere else other than where they are.
In fact, I’m pretty sure that most of the rest of the world would much prefer it if you folks stayed right in North America. I’d wager most Iraqis and Afganis feel this way, just to name two peoples off the top of my head.
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I’m sorry if you took offense to what I said Thad and I did say I was not here to belittle your experience. But the bottomline is, you really can’t judge or understand an experience until you’ve lived through it. You can do your best to understand, but you’ll never truly know until you’ve traded places. Not to say you don’t know what its like to be unprivileged in SOME ways, but others ways you prolly never understand. Just like I’ll never fully understand what its like to be a lesbian, I can only speak as to what I know. That is my point.
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exactly..Thad. you got it.
But the point is not who understands what, that doesn’t change the fact that the privilege is in fact there whether you understand it or not. so let’s not talk around the fact that the privilege is there to begin w/ or derail…
Doesn’t it strike you in the least bit significant that black leaders hsitorically get killed or otherwise invalidated PRECISELY when they begin to talk about issues outside of the black population and link these up with forms of oppression other than race?
Your apparent belief that the Oppression Olympics is the only legitimate way to deal with oppression has only one logical outcome, Abagond: the reduction of oppressed groups into ever-more smaller and alienated populations which are unable to amass any meaningful political power.
What you propose is TRULY not talking about privilege, Abagond.
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I can empathize w/ a struggle, but until I’ve lived it, I will never completely understand…
You can NEVER “completely understand” anyone else’s experience, Peanut: not even your twin sister’s. In fact, I don’t think most people even “completely understand” their own experiences.
So if “complete understanding” is the only basis we’ve got for any sort of understanding in this world, then we are well and truly f#$cked, aren’t we?
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Well said Thad, there are always people that have it worse, and there are always going to be black people that have it better than white or brown people. I realize there is racism in Brazil, but I wish more Americans, black and white, could have a more accepting attitude towards race like Brazil.
I was on Guywhites blog recently, and all the these white dudes are freaking out because their gonna be a minority soon, and the white race is gonna die off and blah blah blah, this is America not Europe we need more diversity not less.
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Sorry – comment I responded to above was to Peanut, not Abagond.
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I don’t think we have a more “accepting” view of race in Brazil.
I do think that there are two things that go on here that make race different:
1) This is a personalist and cordial culture WHO a person is is much more important than any one qualifier you can attach to them. My friend João is my friend João, first and foremost, and a color and gender later. This causes it’s own problems, however, as it makes it hard for Brazilians to see racism in the sense that we talk about it here, i.e. as a social construct. Brazilians are prone to crying “racism!” when they feel that they, personally, have been discriminated against, whatever the nature of that discrimination.
2) In general Brazilians are just not as binary and fanatic as Americans. Roberto da Matta has talked a lot about this. Brazilians tend to always seek a middle way, rather than an extreme. Ironically enough, I believe that this is at least partially a western african cultural relic.
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Bummer. I just heard that cartoonist Glauco and his son Raoni have been murdered in São Paulo! 😦
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thad, do u or do u not believe there is something of whitye privilege just answer that…
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I already answered that above, Peanut. Twice. Of course there’s white privilege. There are MANY forms of privilege.
My point is and has been that these do not line up in a linear and reductionist way in a simple “algrebra of oppression”.
My secondary point is that you believe that they do because you are a product of a society that has spent the last 40 years trying to defuse the potential for any real politics which could result in social change.
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Hey Peanut! Have u or have u not ever been a member of the Communist Party?
Gotta love that witch-huntin` rhetoric!
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Sorry, folks. Trying to desperately avoid working here. Lazy piece of white trash that I am. 😀
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Thad, your sarcastic comments are really getting tired…and please stop derailing.
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“I found it offensive and quite dismissive. It is just like what White people do, practice racism, and then say that it does not exist.”
MoniQtee, I guess you just like to feel offended because I never said racism doesnt exist.Why are you twisting what I said?
I said some young women on here have a good atitude how to deal with racism and feel confident about how they look.
They recently were young girls, and , they have been raised right. They are sharp and know what is happening.
And no one here is saying whites dont have privaledge in American society. I just seconded what Thad said about his immigrant experiance because I have had it too.
Thad you say all that about American whining and the privalidged game , but, Ana’s article was all about calling out Imperialist privaleged travelers from the Empire, speaking about African Americans.Some Brazilians over whine about gringos this gringos that, and most of it is bs.You sure do, and its bs, you especialy do it when your arguments get weak.
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I think BR you meant going off of what some of the women on here said…some can handle the stress well…
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Thad said:
You get privileges just from being an American, Peanut. Imagine having to deal with all you’re dealing with and not being an American.
Excellent point Thad!
Much as I love reading Abagond’s blog and relating to the black experience across the pond, I’m still amazed at how often the mere previlige of being a Yank is overlooked!
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This “privaleged ” word is starting to lose its meaning. Its getting tossed back and forth like some weird hot potato.
The more its tossed around the less credit I give it.
I dont think any of you know the poverty my wife’s family came from. They came from a big family, they would go to those vegatable markets and pick over the vegatables thrown away to try to find something to bring home to eat.
Her mother lost 4 or 5 children in childbirth….
and they dont hate the gringos…mostly white college students hate the gringos, or red flaggers
Guess what? Losing a loved one in death or a family member in death , especialy if its when they are young, trumps who is privaleged . I wish I could be privaliged to talk with the young loved family memebers I have lost
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Thaddeus Said:
“No, PF, I did indeed read Peanut’s post. Do you truly think media brainwashes people to the point where they’ll cut their wrists? Sure, maybe a few folks who have serious problems otherwise, but I don’t think this is the real issue.”
PowerFigure’s Response to Thaddeus:
T, either you’re not reading or not paying attention. Why would you ask that question, above, when in my previous response to you I clearly articulated that Peanut’s point was well made, because it encompassed much more than the mass media? In my response to you, I wrote:
For those who live in a bubble, cut off from anything other than contact with the Internet, that response would make sense. However, those of us who face institutionalized and practical racism that stalks and attacks from every nook and cranny of our lives, who also are consumers of mass media/broadcast and narrowcast media, including the Internet, we know that young Black girls who might have normal growing pains, including problems with low self-esteem, might be a bit more challenged than those who only have growing pains, without having their race and their self-image assaulted constantly.
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” think BR you meant going off of what some of the women on here said…some can handle the stress well…”
Peanut, you mean that I was saying what I was saying based on what some of the people said here? I was if tht is what you meant
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I am definitly not saying I know what black girls are experiancing .I said the things I said based on what people are saying on here. Is any one telling me that the opinions on here arnt representative of issues you all are dealing with? Most of these women here were little girls very recently, like 10 or 15years ago.
There are lots of good examples in the media for black girls to follow. You all dont know that in Brazil there are very few black actors in novelas, all the black shows are ones from the USA
“Everyone hates Chriss”, “My Wife and Kids” they used to have the Will Smith show and others. Among the bad images you all see coming from the media in the USA, there are also very healthy examples of black Americans living positive lives with positive examples.
and I am all for and very supportive of sufocating bad things said about black women in America.
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Peanut, I very much apreciete your sharing your experiances here. They have been very inciteful and relevant.
Your story of carrying your white doll on your trip with your parents to a plantation was precious, I dont think they could make a movie with that scene that could hit home as well as your description.
I was sad to see how much you seemed upset about things you were seeing said on the internet.
What ever this discusion has turned into, I am totaly with you about the negativity about black women going around on the internet and the media.
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Thad, maybe it’s a Ph.D. to Ph.D. thang, but clearly, you and I are having communications problems!
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PowerFigure said:
*****For those who live in a bubble, cut off from anything other than contact with the Internet, that response would make sense. However, those of us who face institutionalized and practical racism that stalks and attacks from every nook and cranny of our lives, who also are consumers of mass media/broadcast and narrowcast media, including the Internet, we know that young Black girls who might have normal growing pains, including problems with low self-esteem, might be a bit more challenged than those who only have growing pains, without having their race and their self-image assaulted constantly.*****
And that is precisely what makes dismissive remarks unacceptable. I also say that is much more than a “bit more challenged.” It is a matter of self-identity and for anyone who says that it is not important then you will have to explain why the entire existence of humanity is hinged on finding out who and what we are.
It is so much more than simply “self-esteem” issues. These are the mothers of our children of tomorrow. You must ask yourself how this will fester in years to come.
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@peanut
The answer is Mira because those people are NOT white. “White,” is a social construction. They may be classified as white or look white, but they’re not white. Also, in my experience, non-white muslims are far more discriminated against than the white european ones. Iraqi or Iranians are seldom considered white in my experience. If you broke them down into 3 races asians, white and blacks, actually I think they would be considered asian not white anyway.
Yes, race is a social construct, but I thought all Caucasians are legally considered to be of the same race. Yet, like you said, Iraqi or Iranians are seldom considered white.
I always thought “Asian” is a politically correct term for what is once called “yellow”. People from East Asia. Not all the Asian people. Are Russians (part) Asian?
I respect your opinion, but I also think people need to try and understand white privilege and in my experience, not enough people accept that there is such a thing.
Yes, there is a white privilege. I don’t deny it.
@Thad
Mira, seriously: many Americans think, for example, that certain Serbians hate the U.S. because said Serbians are “jealous” of the U.S.
No s..t! I know about this. Most of the people in Serbia (or anywhere else for that matter) laugh at this. Some find it insulting, others are amused. “Stupid Americans” is the usual reaction to this.
Yes, it amazes me to see Americans (not all of them, of course), think that others are jealous. Middle East, for example, is jealous of their democracy. So is Russia, I guess.
@MoniQTee
But Mira, by looking at me, you would not consider me mixed although I am.
To me, it has nothing to do with physical appearance. As someone who is not used to contact with non-white people, I can’t tell who is mixed and who is not. What I’m saying, I’m not the best person for “judging” who looks mixed and who doesn’t.
If your close ancestors were of different races, I would consider you as racially mixed even if you don’t look mixed. But the way you described yourself, I wouldn’t think “black”, but of course I respect the way you see yourself.
Also, the story about your uncle is so sad. The worst part is forgetting about his non-white part of the family. Your family is your family. His kids are mixed in my book, btw, even if they look white. Nothing wrong in being mixed.
So I guess what I am trying to say to you is people identify by CULTURE…not by how they look. Obama says he is Black because that is the CULTURE that he identifies with and that is understandable.
Yes, I know. But if we’re talking about culture, Obama was raised by white Americans and not his African part of the family. He was raised in American culture, not in any of the African cultures.
@Y
Being Caucasian, in American, does not equate to whiteness.
I get that, but it makes no sense. Caucasians are recognized as a race. Then how come half of the Caucasians belong to one race (white) and others are not?
In the US you are white in the purest sense of the word. Here you pretty much have to be an Anglo-Saxon to be deemed white. Even dark Italians and Greeks are discriminated against because of there skin despite being white.
I know. Frankly, I find it ridiculous. Italians and Greeks are white. Does this mean I am not white? It makes no sense. I am white. I don’t have to be anglo-saxon to be white or European. I am not any less European than someone from UK or Germany (who is white).
It was just easier back then to define whiteness and strictly European and label everyone else as colored.
Did you mean “define whiteness as strictly European”? But like you said, Italians and Greeks ARE European (not any less European than Western and Northern Europeans).
@FG
In many cases, mixed kids are treated as punching bags by black kids angry about mistreatment by whites. Alot of multiracials are scared by both white and black racism.
That’s because being “mixed” is not really recognized as a category in America (at least it seems like it). So, if you are a child of an interracial couple, you are forced to choose a side and stick to it. Refusing to do it will make you an outcast, and you will hear bad things coming from both sides. You are biracial, right? I guess you know better than I am how it works.
On the other hand, it’s not just in America or when it comes to race. In my part of the world, being mixed means your parents are of different ethnicity (meaning nationality, not race) or of different religions. I am somewhat mixed so I do know mixed people are encouraged to choose a side. On the other hand, refusing to pick a side won’t make you that much of an outcast.
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B.R. sez:
Thad you say all that about American whining and the privalidged game , but, Ana’s article was all about calling out Imperialist privaleged travelers from the Empire, speaking about African Americans.Some Brazilians over whine about gringos this gringos that, and most of it is bs.You sure do, and its bs, you especialy do it when your arguments get weak.
Well, B.R. Ana is talking about socio-political power, not whether or not this individual or that individual is more oppressed. She wasn`t concerned with whether or not she is more oppressed: she is concerned with how certain symbolic constrcutions of Brazil are being given more play than others. If you notice the end of Ana’s article, it didn’t say “Oh, stop it you evil gringos because I’m so much more oppressed than you!” It said, “Hey, what’s this ‘sister’ business? We aren’t operating in anything approaching an egalitarian environment here.”
B.F. sez:
However, those of us who face institutionalized and practical racism that stalks and attacks from every nook and cranny of our lives, who also are consumers of mass media/broadcast and narrowcast media, including the Internet, we know that young Black girls who might have normal growing pains, including problems with low self-esteem, might be a bit more challenged than those who only have growing pains, without having their race and their self-image assaulted constantly.
This presumes alot. It presumes, for example, that those black girls are subject to every other growing pain, PLUS racism while those “others” only have simple growing pains. It presumes, in short, a heirarchy of pain.
I just got done reading “Dude, You’re a Fag”, an ethnography of masculinity in American high schools. In it, there’s this horrible story about a guy who came out in high school and the abuse he suffered from both staff and students which drove him straight out of the school. I think we can both agree that his “growing pains” which “assault self-image” encompass a series of things which most of your black girls won’t meet, just as their pains don’t completely match to the gay guy’s in that book.
But I don’t think you can set that boy’s experience up in some sort of heirarchy of pain with regards to those girls. They’re both in a sh#$%y situation.
I don’t think we’re having communication problems at all. I understand where you’re coming from. I don’t agree with the American myth that experiences are simultaneously wholly ineffable and unique, but that people who display certain identity markers can, among themselves, share complete understanding. I don’t think that black girls or gay boys “share” some great essential understanding amongst themselves that is totally opaque to the rest of the world.
I mean, I look at MoniQuet`s statement:
It is a matter of self-identity and for anyone who says that it is not important then you will have to explain why the entire existence of humanity is hinged on finding out who and what we are.
…and I shake my head. Sure, self-identity is important. What I don`t believe is that there’s a correct construction of self-identity, however, which can be tied into “esteem-building activities” around the concept of race.
Look, Ana and I saw “precious” this weekend and I had a very interesting itneraction with her which highlights how deeply tied Americans are to basic, dualistic notions of race as reality.
In the film, Precious sez several times she wants a “light-skinned” boyfriend. When we got to talking about it, I had to explain to Ana that she didn’t mean”white”. Ana’s comment was “What do you mean? Light-skinned, right? So white.”
“No, in the U.s., people can be white-skinned and black.”
Now Ana knows this, she’s seen it, but she just can’t emotionally grasp it. The idea that someone can be phenotypically one way and yet claim to be something else entirely just doesn’t compute.
And when we’re talking about thius stuff here, I think what could a “black American” notion of beauty do for some girl like Precious? She`s going to be told day in and day out that “beautiful black women” exist and then she’s going to be shown lists like the ones Abagond posts here. Well what the hell is that going to do for her self-image, exactly?
This is what I`m trying to say: the intersections created between forms of oppression and dismissal do not work in a linear and reductionist fashion. “Black Barbie” isn’t a solution. Putting a character like Hanna Montanna onto a black body isn’t going to somehow magically result in feelings of “inclusion” and self-worth. Depending on the individual, they might actually create the opposite effect.
Now, that said, yeah, I’d rather black barbies than wholly ubermensch barbies.
What dismays me is that the discussion has been reduced to this level, as if this sort of thing somehow represents a real choice.
S#$%, people are all happy about the Princess and the Frog because “finally we have a black Disney princess”, as if “black” somehow makes “Disney princess” an all together acceptable thing.
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“The only time black women can be in film is if we are sexy jezebels getting naked or fat and pitiful ghetto people that play up to the white directors stereotypes.”
Thandie Newton- W-Condalisa Rice
Zoe Saldana- Star Trek- Nyota Uhura
Vivica Fox- Independence Day- Jasmine Dubrow
Whoopi Goldberg she is awesome in every movie she is in.
Your making generalizations based on your own opinions, there are plenty of leading black female roles in American film that are not “fat, naked, or ghetto.
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“That’s because being “mixed” is not really recognized as a category in America (at least it seems like it). So, if you are a child of an interracial couple, you are forced to choose a side and stick to it. Refusing to do it will make you an outcast, and you will hear bad things coming from both sides. You are biracial, right? I guess you know better than I am how it works. ”
You’re assuming that mixed race people can freely choose a side, though. The problem is that is often not the case. Both groups may exclude you because you don’t measure up to either of their standards of membership in terms of appearance or ancestry, and there’s nothing you can do to change those.
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It seems like ethnicity is treated almost akin to ideology in Serbia. In the US, though, race remains an ascribed characteristic.
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@abagond
Hey I though Kaone Kario would fit in nicely with your ongoing list of beautiful black women. She has great eyes
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OK, for those who care, ill offer MY view, as a white man….now obviously, because im reading this site, i find black women attractive. the only other white men who would read this site and not like black chicks would be right wing internet trolls looking for a fight.
id like to talk about the ‘uncle milton’ theory, in which amazing BW walk right past WM and they dont notice, when other men will. This is sadly very true. For example, at the community collage i attend, which is in the city, so there is alot of diversity, ill be with some friends[in this example, white male friends] and a crrrrrrazy gorgeous black girl comes wlakin by, and my eyes follow and its like wow. i dont notice this with my ‘fellow WM’ which is strange. i think, for some reason, most white men just plainly dont consider that they could be compatable with a black woman. it could be they assume thiers too much of a cultural barrior, they could assume that she, a black woman, would not step outside her race herself, and sometimes, yes, it could very well be racism. i have heard things said like ‘there is a language barrior. i cant talk to those peole’ which is rediculous.
AND!!! since were in the subject of racsm, ill tell another thing on white guys brains [everyones ears perking up?] when the subject of black women comes up, or if a bw walks by, etc, however the topic gets started, there is always one white guy who says something to the point of ‘ why would she like me? shes got all her men, with their big dicks, she dont want me.’ usually, this guy has a low self esteem, and is probly a bit of a closet case…but, for some reason, a group of white men out there are ‘hung’ up about the black male…um…package. they have a inferiourity complex, regarding themselves, which is racist is so many ways. 1 way is, it says every bm has a large package, and 2, it almost goes out of its way to say all black women are lustly, nimphy women, who only care about one thing,both of which, are not true and dangerous stereotypes.
but, back on topic, [some]white men, sadly just dont consider black females as daing material. they just dont show up on the radar. the subconcious ‘girl watching ‘sector of their brain [98 percent of the male brain , as a matter of fact] just doesnt recognize when a black women walks by, even one that would make other guys sweat. and the second main reason is fear, which either it be a fear of rejection cuz of cultural differences, or penis envy of a fictional black man, who lives in their brain and shames them whenever they stand at the stall.
but, hope is not lost for the white male race….im here as living proof, that not all of us are crazy. so, if your a gorgeous black babe, and you walk down the hallway, or the sidewalk, ill be drooling and rolling my tongue up from my shoes, so God Bless America!
ps. this all being said, i, as a young white man, am put in a horrible position. i am represented by these crazy ignorant guys, and in turn, the younf black women out there wouldnt expect me to like them, thus, thwey dont see me, or white men, on THEIR radar! its a weird reverse affect, it seems the races are just not considering each other out of whats perceived as easiest, which is to stay with ones race..oh well. white guy OUT!
pss. no, i dont hate white women, i just love allll women.
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@Thad
In the film, Precious sez several times she wants a “light-skinned” boyfriend. When we got to talking about it, I had to explain to Ana that she didn’t mean”white”. Ana’s comment was “What do you mean? Light-skinned, right? So white.”
I had the same problem with Toni Morrison’s “Jazz”. It took me a while to realize “light skinned girl” wasn’t white.
I am not sure if I should watch “Precious” or not. I like serious movies and dramas, but this one seems way too depressing.
@FG
You’re assuming that mixed race people can freely choose a side, though. The problem is that is often not the case. Both groups may exclude you because you don’t measure up to either of their standards of membership in terms of appearance or ancestry, and there’s nothing you can do to change those.
Sorry, sorry, my mistake! Yes, I realize racially mixed people can’t choose a side. I realize there is such a thing to be too black for whites and too white for blacks. Not a nice situation, but I am not sure if I buy the “tragic mulatto” stereotype. After all, you are who you are, an individual. You don’t really have to explain anything to any of those groups. You don’t own them anything. Sure, you will encounter some difficulties in your social life (or in other areas of life), but there’s no point in trying to be something you’re not. It never works.
In case of the ethnic relations on Balkans, in most of the cases, you can freely choose a side. However, you must work hard to prove yourself as loyal and true to only one ethnicity. That’s why many hard-core nationalists here are mixed.
It seems like ethnicity is treated almost akin to ideology in Serbia.
Yes, exactly. Not just Serbia, the whole Balkans. Less then a decade ago, people here killed each other over ethnicity (and religion). Race is not an issue- we are all white.
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Peanut, I wanted to address another comment to you, based on your preocupation for young black girls and the images out there.
If they could understand how deep the black woman is in shaping American charactor and identity, they wouldnt have to be affected by any petty negative images coming out.
There is no better shining example than the histroy of black American woman singers . The list is long and glorious and it truly represents the soul of America.
Bessie Smith, Dinah Washington, Ella Fitzgerald, Billie Holiday, Dorothy Dandridge, Sarah Vaghn, Betty Carter, Carmen Lundy, Nancy Wilson,Fontella Bass, Dianna Ross and the Supremse, Tamy Terrel,Martha and the Vandellas, Chaka Kahn,Aretha Franklin, Gladys Knight, Natalie Cole,Irene Cara, Minne Ripperton, Phylis Hymen, Beyonce, Ciara,Janet Jackson,Tina Turner, Mary J (cant spell her last name and excuse any other misspellings) and so so many more I cant call off the top of my head now….
These women truly represent America and its culture, beauty and soul to the fullest.
If young black girls were educated about this long line of true history , they would always have an unwavoring beacon of strength to look to and be proud of relating to black women who are truly extraordinarily beautiful in American culture.
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ok Thad, at this time, I wont contest your big words in your explanation….
But one thing I would like an explanation about is your referance to the fact you were once an “exotic dancer”, which I saw you said in another thread.
This could drasticly alter my opinion of you as just an academic…..
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Thad was an exotic dancer? 🙂
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Oing, Thad once shook his money maker for a living?
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Don’t get me wrong, this info doesn’t change my opinion on Thad. Still, it’s interesting to hear this. Never seen an exotic dance performance, male or female. I must admit male dancers sound more exciting to me.
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“Not a nice situation, but I am not sure if I buy the “tragic mulatto” stereotype. ”
I sense that this stereotype is much less true today than it was, say, 20 years ago.
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“In case of the ethnic relations on Balkans, in most of the cases, you can freely choose a side. However, you must work hard to prove yourself as loyal and true to only one ethnicity. That’s why many hard-core nationalists here are mixed.”
There’s a similar tendency here in the US, though presumably not as extreme. It’s been observed that multiracials who identify as black “compensate” for their background by embracing a black nationalistic ethos. That may be why Obama attended Reverend Wright’s church for all those years.
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“I’m 42 and I’ve been a dishwasher, short-order cook, book salesman, cornhusker, tree planter and even erotic dancer for almost all of my life”
Here is Thad’s quote from the “can a white person have the black experiance” or something like that…..
Its time to jack the shark on this one , Thad….
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But one thing I would like an explanation about is your referance to the fact you were once an “exotic dancer”, which I saw you said in another thread.
This could drasticly alter my opinion of you as just an academic…..
I can’t figure, for the life on me, why that would change your opinion of me as an academic… unless, of course, you have some really wild prejudices about academics.
Do you have any idea of how many men and women have done sex work while they were in school? In many ways, it’s an ideal college job: lots of cash, flexible hours, often little work. B.R., you are seriously out of touch with life as it’s lived if you think people who go to university don’t get involved with sex work.
In my case, I briefly worked as a male dancer in a strip club. This was when I was 21 years old. It was definitely an eye-opening experience and probably nothing like what you’re thinking it was like, B.R.
It wasn’t fun, I’ll tell you that. It DID get me a lot of money, quickly, when I badly needed it. And no, you don’t have to be particularly sexy or dance well for this sort of job. There are “Chippendales”-style dancers and then there are the other guys…
Take a guess at what is women’s #1 reason for going to a male strip show is. If you guess correctly, It’ll give you a handle on what I did.
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B.R. sez
ok Thad, at this time, I wont contest your big words in your explanation….
Huh? I said…
Well, B.R. Ana is talking about socio-political power, not whether or not this individual or that individual is more oppressed. She wasn`t concerned with whether or not she is more oppressed: she is concerned with how certain symbolic constrcutions of Brazil are being given more play than others. If you notice the end of Ana’s article, it didn’t say “Oh, stop it you evil gringos because I’m so much more oppressed than you!” It said, “Hey, what’s this ’sister’ business? We aren’t operating in anything approaching an egalitarian environment here.”
What “big words” are you seeing there, B.R.? “Individual”…? Or is it “socio-political” and “symbolic constructions” that are throwing you off? Neither of those two terms is particularly complicated.
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“Take a guess at what is women’s #1 reason for going to a male strip show is. If you guess correctly, It’ll give you a handle on what I did…”
What? Dont I get dollars to doughnuts?
You were one of the guys in the back rooms for private sessions…..?
I thought Ana said something like “….imperialistic privaleged travelers from the empire, we despise you but we like to get your money….”
Actualy I just brought it up here because everyone is throwing around “privaleged” as the all purpose word how to “flame ” somebody (ahhhh Jasmin nailed you bra)….
No ,not prejudice about academics, only ones who think they know more about music than I do and seriously mischaractorise me in the process, I am the bandstand…oh yeah you are the floor boards…I guess we have something in common…
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Take a guess at what is women’s #1 reason for going to a male strip show is.
Because they want to feel the power of being the one who is objectifying the opposite sex?
Because they want to get at least an illusion of sexual freedom?
I’d go to see sexy men dance… sexily. But if you (not you personally :D) don’t have to be sexy or know how to dance, then I am not sure I’m interested.
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White male said:
“back on topic, [some]white men, sadly just dont consider black females as daing material. they just dont show up on the radar. the subconcious ‘girl watching ’sector of their brain [98 percent of the male brain , as a matter of fact] just doesnt recognize when a black women walks by, even one that would make other guys sweat. and the second main reason is fear, which either it be a fear of rejection cuz of cultural differences, or penis envy of a fictional black man, who lives in their brain and shames them whenever they stand at the stall.”
PowerFigure:
White Male, thanks for making me laugh today! You are hilarious dude! Honest, but still hilarious in your delivery.
I’ve found everything you’re saying to be true, as I have dated Black men, and I’ve had very close friendships with White men. I think the main reason my single White male friends have never tried to take it to the next level, in my experiences, has had more to do with fear of rejection, and that could have been based on “penis envy,” as you put it. However, I will tell you (in secret, ha ha) that I’ve gotten quite a few proposals for taking things to the next level from my married White male friends. Of course, I have and will always turn them down, but I do find it interesting that the married ones have been willing to go for the gusto, when the single ones seem to be reluctant.
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Isn’t that because single ones could be more serious about dating? You can never know for sure, but in theory, they might be interested in dating.
The married ones simply want sex or an affair. They are not seriously interested in a relationship.
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Mira: “Isn’t that because single ones could be more serious about dating? You can never know for sure, but in theory, they might be interested in dating.
The married ones simply want sex or an affair. They are not seriously interested in a relationship.”
PowerFigure
Mira, that has always been my take on it. The married ones have a built-in understanding for the rejection they get–after all, they’re married. They don’t have to take it as a rejection of them, outright. One of my co-worker/friends once told me my first name was the same as his wife’s (and that was true), so he said it would be great because he wouldn’t have to worry about calling out the wrong name!
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Mira sez:
Because they want to feel the power of being the one who is objectifying the opposite sex?
Got it in one, Mira.
The number one occasion that women go to strip bars being divorce parties.
There are two types of male dancers: sexy Chippendale types and not-so-sexy types who generally do sort of a male drag to get the women riled up. That was one of the things I did. You basically go out their to take abuse.
Think of it as sort of like being a rodeo clown, keeping the bulls distracted. (Or in this case the cows.)
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ahh Thad, it just gives you a little depth and humanity. Thanks for sharing. Heck, Ive played for bordelos before myself.
Which leads me to ask, what is up with Copacabana these days? I was there one week before carnival and of course Help is closed and Sobre dos Ondas and very little on the street soliciting. It was extremly tame compared to what Ive seen it be like before. Is Copacabana being turned into 42nd street now?
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Thanks for an explanation, Thad!
I must admit, “sexy Chippendale types” sound better, but aren’t they… um, not-quite heterosexual?
Sorry about the stereotype.
Now when I think about it, you’re right: whether a male dancer is sexy, attractive and can dance is really not important. All women want is to feel the power and objectify a bit.
One might think it’s humiliating for the dancer, but then again, the fact women need to go to a night club and pay to release a bit of sexual tension is also sad.
@PowerFigure
I must admit, those guys are strange. Why don’t they approach when they’re single and available? Do they think you should be happy that they even approach even if married? Disgusting.
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“AND!!! since were in the subject of racsm, ill tell another thing on white guys brains [everyones ears perking up?] when the subject of black women comes up, or if a bw walks by, etc, however the topic gets started, there is always one white guy who says something to the point of ‘ why would she like me? shes got all her men, with their big dicks, she dont want me.’ usually, this guy has a low self esteem, and is probly a bit of a closet case…but, for some reason, a group of white men out there are ‘hung’ up about the black male…um…package. they have a inferiourity complex, regarding themselves, which is racist is so many ways. 1 way is, it says every bm has a large package, and 2, it almost goes out of its way to say all black women are lustly, nimphy women, who only care about one thing,both of which, are not true and dangerous stereotypes.
but, back on topic, [some]white men, sadly just dont consider black females as daing material. they just dont show up on the radar. the subconcious ‘girl watching ’sector of their brain [98 percent of the male brain , as a matter of fact] just doesnt recognize when a black women walks by, even one that would make other guys sweat.”
Response:pretty much what we’ve all been saying alot of wm just don’t even consider bw to be fully women…so
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Peanut: “Response:pretty much what we’ve all been saying alot of wm just don’t even consider bw to be fully women…so”
PowerFigure
Peanut, I hear ya! Still, it’s hard for me to be mad at ’em, especially those who just don’t see us, or for whom it just register that we are there, because that’s pretty much how I react to them … as sad as it may be. WM just don’t “register” for me the way BM do.
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Hey Peanut,
when it comes to WM, for me, it’s like I see ’em and don’t see ’em, which is kind of how they might see BW. In our society with all its racial illness and politics, I can understand that “response,” or lack thereof.
I’m not saying it’s right, or that it is as it should be, but I truly do understand it. For me, it’s not that white men are invisible, but it’s more that in terms of “datable men,” they just don’t matter, or don’t register. They don’t factor into the equation, so to speak. Maybe it’s the same way for most of them when it comes to Black women.
Hey Mira,
I too have been disgusted by the “come ons” I’ve gotten over the years from married white men. Since most of them have been co-workers/colleagues, I still have to work with them. So, I’ve learned to make it into a little “jokey joke,” to ease the tension.
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To powerfigure,
thanks for liking my comment. its a good feeling hearing people actually discussing things, as opposed to yelling at everyone…
also, just ot add another thing for the entire group, i dont know if saying ‘white men dont think black women are human’ is correct. yea, 60-70 years ago, but if were talkin educated, city dwelling americans, i dont tihnk anyone doesnt consider anyone else to be human…..but i think the point i was trying to make with the ‘bw just dont register sometimes’ argument was that its not about wm thinking your not huamn, its about things in our culture [american culture] like media, and segregation, etc that subconsiously places thoughts and judgements in ones head. so, after awhile, the white guy might be told so many times by his society that he belongs with a woman that looks like him, that he doesnt even bother to notice a bw.
it happens with us all, racially, and otherwise. example- we are taught to keep away from those who are different from us. so, a person might not talk\ask out a another perosn if they look as if they fit a different ‘group’. this could be because they have died hair and piercings and tattoos. so, that little voice in our head has kept us from knowing this person, because their is a social stigma that keeps us from knowing them….pretty skrewed up. and weve ALL done it. look how people treat the homeless, or poor in general..look how we treat obese people? im sure their feeling are hurt from being rejected so much. idk, food for thought.
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When are people going to leave black woman the heck alone?? NBC needs to shove its special up its butt…they don’t care about bw and not all of us are so single and desperate
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why don’t we do a special on white women and their relationship problems and why the divorce rate is so damn high…that’s something id like to watch
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Peanut –
Co-sign!
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White male says,
also, just ot add another thing for the entire group, i dont know if saying ‘white men dont think black women are human’ is correct. yea, 60-70 years ago, but if were talkin educated, city dwelling americans, i dont tihnk anyone doesnt consider anyone else to be human…..but i think the point i was trying to make with the ‘bw just dont register sometimes’ argument was that its not about wm thinking your not huamn, its about things in our culture [american culture] like media, and segregation, etc that subconsiously places thoughts and judgements in ones head. so, after awhile, the white guy might be told so many times by his society that he belongs with a woman that looks like him, that he doesnt even bother to notice a bw.
laromana says,
In the 21st century it’s no longer good enough to blame ANTI-BW IGNORANCE/RACISM on American culture, media, or segregation. WM who continue to view BW in a NEGATIVE/RACIST way need to take responsibilty for their attitudes/actions and learn to approach BW as human women not STEREOTYPES. In other words, if this type of WM treats NON-BW in a NORMAL, NON-STEREOTYPICAL way, he needs to extend this same treatment to BW.
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laromana says,
“In the 21st century it’s no longer good enough to blame ANTI-BW IGNORANCE/RACISM on American culture, media, or segregation. WM who continue to view BW in a NEGATIVE/RACIST way need to take responsibilty for their attitudes/actions and learn to approach BW as human women not STEREOTYPES. In other words, if this type of WM treats NON-BW in a NORMAL, NON-STEREOTYPICAL way, he needs to extend this same treatment to BW.”
Thanks Laromana. Well said.
We all have to start thinking for ourselves at some point, and stop blaming the media and some ubiquitous “culture” for our actions and thoughts. We’re not robots. Even though the media and the advertisers do attempt to “program” us as if they think we are robots, the truth is, we’re not. Still, a lot of us are too lazy to think for ourselves. It’s OUCH painful to have to face up to the truth about self, and it’s much easier to just let the media “run” us.
Case in Point: Someone mentioned the show Nightline did about black women not being able to find a man. That is simply media programming–not reality. Every black woman I know who wants a man, has one. And I know plenty of white women who don’t have a man, who want one.
I don’t buy the “I can’t find no man” argument. I think just about any woman who wants a man can have one, and those who want and don’t have aren’t doing what they need to do to find one–if they really want one.
I also believe that sometimes, anyone, male or female, might need to take a break from dating. It’s a good way to chill out, and just look at your life, and figure out who and what you need and want in it. But don’t, for one second, allow the media to set your agenda, or your idea about what’s going on with black women in general. We are not a monolithic group. We don’t all have the same life experiences. And we are not all fat, single and alone. If we are overweight and want to change that fact, then we are smart enough to develop a plan for eliminating that state of existence. My point is, we are all responsible for what we allow into our lives. We are not slaves to the media, to do and think and be whatever the media says we think, or that we are.
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I don’t know what world u live in, White men are highly attracted to Black women. In fact, they are attracted to the race as a whole. The games people play to keep people in a submissive state, is just what is happenning here. It’s like school-age children, slandering the one they want in secrecy-(even if it is obvious). Stop writing about stuff like this, who cares what they think [in other words]. This type of attention only lends credence to their games. We [as Black Folk] love each other, screw the world that says otherwise….
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peanut: I am mixed race and have had many white people compliment me and also on some of my black features such as my curvy bum and full lips. some of the whiter features such as my slim nose have also been commented on. some scenarios:
one white girl said to me ‘your features are quite white aren’t they i mean your nose is slim’.
-I had a guy once say what are you, are you spanish-i said now i’m half black.
a guy i knew once said ‘you are pretty for a black girl’
-another guys compared me my more darker skinned black friend and said infront of her that i was more attractive because i was part white and had the best of both worlds-idiot.
the truth is my features are probably more black than white-like halle berry and rosario dawson i obviously don’t look white.
I have also had down right mean scenarios where racist white people have plucked a ‘saphire’ or masculine looking black women out of their head as a comparison and had a guy swear down that i must look more like my dad (without even having ever saw him)-to him because I am part black i cannot possibly look like my white mum or a woman.
all the above to scenarios have been offensive, some of them may be seen as compliments but they were backwards compliments, still dreaded in racism. even though i’m mixed half black I have still gone through racist crap. either i’m considered as being more attractive to people by virtue of being part white or people have not even wanted to see me as beautiful because I am black. either my whiteness is coveted or I am seen as too black to be beautiful. not skinny enough, not white enough in their eyes.
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Jennifer said:
“all the above to scenarios have been offensive, some of them may be seen as compliments but they were backwards compliments, still dreaded in racism. even though i’m mixed half black I have still gone through racist crap. either i’m considered as being more attractive to people by virtue of being part white or people have not even wanted to see me as beautiful because I am black. either my whiteness is coveted or I am seen as too black to be beautiful. not skinny enough, not white enough in their eyes.”
Jennifer:
I am a black woman, with white ancestors, but I am not bi-racial, and evidently, I too look too black to be white and too white to be black as well. My point is, you don’t even have to be bi-racial, or have recent “white blood” in your body, in order to have light skin, or any other features people consider to be “white.”
I’ve gone through similar scenarios as you described. The questions: Are you Hispanic? (especially since I live in Texas); Are you mixed? One Italian co-worker once even told me “you could pass for Italian!” I cannot tell you how much that offended me. Why would anyone say that to another person? Who wants to pass for anything? Something that I will never forget is something that hurt my feelings even more. At one university where I worked, one day I wore a gold silk long sleeved blouse to work, with black slacks, and one of the black students working in the office told me, “You look like a rich white woman.” I don’t know why, but that statement haunts me to this day. I just could never understand why that young lady felt the need to say that to me.
Anyway, I just wanted to let you know you’re not alone, and that all of the people who suffer from having to put up with such ignorance are not even bi-racial.
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powerfigure: thank you, for the reply and sorry about my annoying typos, I was in a rush. I can imagine my experiences are also similar to lighter complected black women or latinos who are clearly part black like rosario dawson and zoe saldana. Have you found like me though that despite that at times people have tried to differentiate you from being an authentic black woman, because you are clearly not white some people have still been racist towards you because to them you are just another black woman? it is experiences like that which have made me see myself as more black than white. perhaps if my phenotype was less similar to alicia keys and halle berry and more like jennifer beals I would feel differently.
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Jennifer: You’re welcome, and never forget that you are not alone. It seems that race and skin color will always be insurmountable issues for some in the world, and there does not seem to be much anyone can say or do to change that fact, unfortunately.
I think it would hurt me, psychologically, if I didn’t already have a strong “identity,” and if I didn’t already identify myself with my race. I live in the U. S. south, and I grew up with many, many blacks who were just as light skinned, or even lighter than me, with so-called “Anglo” features, such as long, straight hair or long curly hair. Living in communities where no one questioned my race or ethnicity based on my appearance, I think, helped me tremendously in terms of developing self esteem and strong sense of who I am as a black woman. My mother’s mother was half white, and my father’s father was either half or one-fourth white, so there are plenty of Caucasian genes floating around in the roots of the family tree.
I also have Native American ancestors on both sides, as do many, many southern black people. Still, we self-identify as black, and are proud of it. We’re unshakeable, and sometimes I think the comments, when they’re insulting, are not just a blatant display of ignorance. Sometimes I think they are actually meant to shake your foundation so that you no longer know who or what you are. I think it’s akin to or a part of the “divide and conquer” strategy that is used in war.
Still, I think James Brown said it best for me. Say it loud, I’m black and I’m proud!
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“It strikes me as weird, how some men will not notice a beautiful black woman almost as if they are not viable mates kinda like we’re a different species.”
I’ve came to the conclusion a while ago that many whites (as well as other non-Blacks) actually do believe that Blacks are a species unto themselves.
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Okay, where do you people live? My whole life, I have been complimented Especially by white people. I wen to a predominantly white college and was called “beautiful” a lot. People say that to me all the time. And it’s weird, because I am VERY hard on myself. Esp. after childbearing. And c-sections and all that stuff. And. I am not “bi-racial”. I have ancestors from Europe and America- (first nations people, is what we call them in Canada- Native Americans). But mostly, the dominant aspect of my features and skin color, butt shape and hair is African. I have snide, insecure or ignorant people comment on my features as not being “white enough”. But seriously, for the most part, all I get is the affirmation of being beautiful. Like right now, even when I am down in the dumps and don’t feel like my usually sparkly self. When people have insulted me, it’s usually been some guy whom I unwittingly rejected or some jealous person. The attraction from white guys depends on how willing the black woman is to accept it. Have you ever heard “the man chases a woman until she catches him?”. I have been rejected by black men and white men, but honestly, it’s usually when I have been underconfident.
I think I am your basic, average, brownskinned black woman. I am short. Sometimes heavier, sometimes lighter (in pounds) But I KNOW it’s my spirit (and amazing style) that catches attention. I am married, and it is my spirit, which makes or breaks my marriage. Really and truly it is. Ladies of all hues- love yourselves. Exercise, read books, go to museums, watch sports, love life. Think, breathe and think. The ignorant white man or black man or Asian man who is on about your blackness as a negative is usually ignorant and unattractive in his ignorance. Do you want a stupid man? I have yet to meet an intellectual, dynamic and spiritually rich man who got hung up on a woman’s race. Cowardly man aren’t even attractive. Some guy who is tripping on race is a guy who is boring, unadventurous and unappealing. I have had all types of men attracted to me. My friend who is beautiful and mixed race taught me something about being a beautiful woman. Relax. She has been through it too. She has felt ugly (like we all have) and felt that her beauty was used against her and all that jazz. BUT, you have to got to relax and love yourself. YES, there is racism. Ridiculous amounts, but there is also so much power that we possess. My life isn’t perfect. I struggle every single day, but the one thing I realize is that beauty and sexuality is a mind game. Being physically attractive isn’t the issue now, and white men aren’t the issue. It’s loving myself. Not just how I look, but tolerating mistakes, tolerating the humility of growth, and being okay with not doing things perfectly. Giving myself chances in my life. This is beyond race, this is about loving the spirit within.
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Great post MotherofLove! I would like to read more from you on these subjects, particularly regarding attraction. Men are weird. Being pretty doesn’t attract them, but I am confused as to what does. I guess your right in that it’s confidence.
What I will never understand is what men look for in women. There are some women that women think are absolutely beautiful (and they are), but men totally ignore them.
What do you mean attraction and beauty are a game?
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PS
Rejection is a part of life. Today, I saw myself on film (I am an actor) and I just cringed. I was, however, playing a junkie who was dead (long story). It was a character I played and I think I played it well (at times). However, i did not feel cute. Such is the actor’s life. You are always different people. And I think that makes me see things about attraction that I would not otherwise.
However, yesterday, I had retwisted my almost dredlock twists, and walked downtown in this small, midwestern city in which I live. Many men passed me. I found, (and I am ashamed to admit it) that I made eye contact with a couple of guys. They were all very cute. I notice that I can feel invisible to most guys, except very cute ones! LOL! It’s strange. I was at a bar once with about three female friends. Black. All gorgeous. One woman, mixed race (by that I mean, two “ethnic” parentes) was talking to this scrubby white guy who had a girlfriend. This girl is gorgeous. Full figured, (like Betty Boop) and big eyes. We were all yummy. The skinny, too young looking tattooed skater dude chatting her up had, she found out from his coworkers, a girlfriend. The beautiful girl said, “Guys with girlfriends always are after me. Like that’s all I’m good enough for.’ I am telling you. Those were her issues around race. Because I am less “exotic” than she. But I didn’t grow up in this racist little city. And my mother told me to value my stuff. I can have low self esteem like the rest of us, but I do value myself. Anyway, my hair was blown out to an insane, fro-like style. And the cutest guy there told my friend “She is beautiful.” Unlike my exotic friend with the big breasts and big eyes, I have this almost odd expectation of being loved and nurtured. I am married to a man who is quite loving to me. I resist and ignore guys who don’t treat me with a certain amount of respect. I am not some lightskinned, straight haired Beyonce type. But I think I exude a different vibe. On a strictly unconscious, unspoken level. Beliefs are tangible, however. As an actor, I deal with beliefs and charisma and beauty ALL THE TIME. It’s your belief. Really. And your energy. I refuse to put some white man on a pedestal. A lot of stuff around race is envy and self loathing on the part of the racist. Black people were the first people on the planet. Re’ the gorilla thing. We are animals. We all look like our cousins, the chimps and the gorillas. I always thought my husband looked like this shvved dog in a photo. I think black people look like other primates and white people look almost canine. So what? We ARE animals, so what? Are white people less than because they resemble canines? Are black people less than because we resemble other primates. Gorillas don’t systemtatically destroy the environment, genocide their own species, or create new strains of disease. Canines don’t either. Get over crazy ass white and black and Asian folks when it comes to sex and love. They are boring and un-fun anyway.
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Aye,
It’s best to let it out by burst, and then slowly crawl back toward some kind of rationality.
Although, i don’t know why racially based attraction always sound ugly and lame.
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Racially based attraction sound lame to me because no two human beings look alike, and being attracted to one particular race says nothing about that person’s true preferences (when it comes to physical features). Race is not a biological fact, so “not being attracted to black women” says nothing about said man’s preferences, but it says a lot about his racism.
Also, “being attracted to black women only” says volumes, and it also has nothing to do with physical features a man finds attractive on a woman.
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MotherofLove said: “The ignorant white man or black man or Asian man who is on about your blackness as a negative is usually ignorant and unattractive in his ignorance. Do you want a stupid man? I have yet to meet an intellectual, dynamic and spiritually rich man who got hung up on a woman’s race. Cowardly man aren’t even attractive. Some guy who is tripping on race is a guy who is boring, unadventurous and unappealing.”
Point well made! This is my whole thing too, and it’s the reason why it doesn’t make a whole lot of difference to most black women, that white men are not “attracted” to them, in droves. Many, if not most, white men are unaccepting of a black person as a person–meaning they are racist in their thinking toward all blacks, not just black women. What black female in her right mind, pretty or not, would want to lay down to sleep at night with a racist white man who feels she has no right to considered a human being? A show of hands please?!
And therein lies the rub. We’re just “not there yet,” as human beings, especially in America. Many members of the “majority race” still have a need to “divide and conquer” those who don’t look the way they do, especially if any of their ancestors came from Africa.
Race is a social construct, with no real meaning. There are people in my family who have skin that is as light, or even lighter, than that of many so called “white” people, and some of them have natural blond hair and gray or green eyes. And they will get super angry with anyone who confuses them with a white person. I come from a truly “mixed” American family, and I wish that race did not matter. But it does.
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MotherofLove says,
“The ignorant white man or black man or Asian man who is on about your blackness as a negative is usually ignorant and unattractive in his ignorance. Do you want a stupid man? I have yet to meet an intellectual, dynamic and spiritually rich man who got hung up on a woman’s race. Cowardly man aren’t even attractive. Some guy who is tripping on race is a guy who is boring, unadventurous and unappealing.”
PowerFigure says,
Point well made! This is my whole thing too, and it’s the reason why it doesn’t make a whole lot of difference to most black women, that white men are not “attracted” to them, in droves. Many, if not most, white men are unaccepting of a black person as a person–meaning they are racist in their thinking toward all blacks, not just black women. What black female in her right mind, pretty or not, would want to lay down to sleep at night with a racist white man who feels she has no right to considered a human being? A show of hands please?!
And therein lies the rub. We’re just “not there yet,” as human beings, especially in America. Many members of the “majority race” still have a need to “divide and conquer” those who don’t look the way they do, especially if any of their ancestors came from Africa.
Race is a social construct, with no real meaning.
MotherofLove and PowerFigure,
I strongly agree with the comments both of you have made. The ANTI-BW RACISM/COWARDICE BW are subjected to from WM/NON-BM (and MANY BM) in America is evidence of their unwillingness to treat BW like NORMAL, HUMAN WOMEN.
I do believe, however, that BW/PRO-BW ADVOCATES need to continue CHALLENGING/CONDEMNING/DESTROYING ANTI-BW RACISM wherever BW’s image is DEGRADED/DEMEANED/DISRESPECTED.
Unfortunately, it will take a DELIBERATE CHANGE in the NEGATIVE PERCEPTION of Black beauty from being ugly (SOLELY because it is Black) to a more ACCURATE PERCEPTION of BW that acknowledges BW COME IN A DIVERSE RANGE OF BEAUTY/ALL FORMS OF AFRICAN BEAUTY ARE BEAUTIFUL.
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laromana says, “I do believe, however, that BW/PRO-BW ADVOCATES need to continue CHALLENGING/ CONDEMNING/DESTROYING ANTI-BW RACISM wherever BW’s image is DEGRADED/DEMEANED/DISRESPECTED.
Unfortunately, it will take a DELIBERATE CHANGE in the NEGATIVE PERCEPTION of Black beauty from being ugly (SOLELY because it is Black) to a more ACCURATE PERCEPTION of BW that acknowledges BW COME IN A DIVERSE RANGE OF BEAUTY/ALL FORMS OF AFRICAN BEAUTY ARE BEAUTIFUL.”
PowerFigure
Amen, Laromana! And since we’re on the topic of what is or is not “ugly,” I have one question: Is there anything uglier than racism?
I rest my case.
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PowerFigure:
I can’t help but think about Dr. Laura’s comments to the beautiful black woman who called in to her show for advice. The black woman, who called herself “Jade,” is married to a white man, but was calling Dr. Racist, oops, I mean Dr. Laura, for advice about how to approach the topic of racism and racist statements uttered by her husband’s family and/or friends, in her presence. Her question was completely ignored when Dr. Laura went off on a racist rant that revealed clearly to anyone with a brain that she was an even bigger racist than any of the people Jade called in about.
Larry King had them both, the beautiful black woman, and the Dr. It was an interesting show, to say the least!
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@ PowerFigure
Oh! What happened on Larry King??? I didn’t know about that.
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King, you can visit this website, and it gives an account of what happened, as well as video. Dr. Laura supposedly has resigned her job as a radio talk-show host, after the incident. She says her resignation is not because of the incident, but one can only wish that if it had nothing to do with the incidence, that she had resigned long before the incident. I think it is just another case of a racist white woman who couldn’t stand the idea of a black woman being married to a white man. I think it pissed her off and she went on an “N” word rant, showing the world who she really was all along.
http://mediamatters.org/blog/201008120045
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‘Racism’ is a meaningless words that multi-culti Universalist morons use to charge heretics with. May as well call me a “witch”.
All the attractive black men and women look white or Asian, and usually are part white or Asian. I’ve lived in places with lots of blacks and I’ve never seen one in-person that I found attractive.
And people who use PC crap like ‘n’ word are faggots and pussies who should have their children taken from them. You subhuman cowards really irk me.
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Abagond:
All of the envy and hatred of “The Black Female” is mind-blowing to me. Whitemen in europe and the middle-east used and abused blackwomen for centuries, and they have the nerve to talk s**t about them, Really? And, let’s not leave out asian and native-american men as well, because they have “Unclean Hands” as well. All women on this planet have african blood in them, because of slavery and colonization…Spain, Portugal, Greece, Italy, Turkey, The Middle East, South Asia, Pacific Isles, and The Americas. I hate repeating myself, but young sistas and brothas don’t know their history as much as they should.
Tyrone
Sugar & Spice…Sistas On Top
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Lot of hateful comments on here! I love the variety of races.colours,looks etc ..whatever we like to call it! that we have in the world..it makes life much more exciting..people need to embrace that humans look different! and that should be celebrated by all!.I am a white guy and I love Black women..They have adorable features,the brown skin is delightful! the full lips are super sexy! lovely shaped bodies and curly black hair! yummy..I also like women of other races and hate to see people trying to change themselves to suit a supposed idea of beauty! We are born a certain way..and that is the way it is ! stay healthy and look after ones self is all that’s needed! The celebrity world doesn’t help matters for women ,with many females having regular surgery ,which always shows and looks desperate..also photo-shopping is creating a bad image..i have seen many black girls with there skin lightened on pics! why? I want to see a black woman with dark skin! I like her with dark skin.. thankyou! If your a racist then your a racist and that is your problem and you are very small minded! i have seen too much racism on here and its pathetic! life is too short for that crap! I think I will head out and find myself a black goddess! cant wait!
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Black women are beautiful in any color. They can have dark skin, light skin, brown skin, yellow skin, or red skin. All skin colors are beautiful, and the sooner we all get beyond the idea of skin color, and focus more on the color of our character, the better off we’ll all be as a society, as a civilization.
Read Silver: Currents of Change, by Beax Rivers. It’s about a black girl who looks white. She’s beautiful, but hates white people. Looks white, hates white people? Come on! And it’s a love story! Very good too. Shows how screwed up we are in America over skin color. Let’s get over it. Please.
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It isn’t a “monkey” or “gorilla” thing, it’s an attitude, aggressiveness & anger issue that explains why white men rarely find black women attractive.
I think this comes from blacks being primarily a matriarchal race where the females do most of the work, raise & discipline the kids.
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Get real. First, is it racism that drives black men to white women? Second, black woman are loud, abusive (as are the men), violent. Lastly, as told to other men by black men, the black woman dont practice hygiene like white woman. This BS about whites tanning to look like blacks of course is wrong. Tanning evens out skin tone, helps with depression in some cases and the darker people tan they look hideous. Trust me, if blacks look at their behavior which is displayed daily (rude, loud, dishonest, lazy) you will see racism has little to do with it but you manage to fill the stereotype to a t. BTW, have you ever seen a group of whites demolish a city, loot and burn, and murder because things dont go there way?
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@loug1966
Doug1111 – is that you?
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It seems like it, Demerera.
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@Mira,
Actually–and this is just where I grew up and what I have seen–big breasts on a slender woman is not all that uncommon, particulary on girls in African countries. Yes–. LOL
Girls in my home country are known to be on the slim side with a minimum cup size of DD. I kid you not! They don’t have big booties or wide hips–although it could change if she begins to eat the wrong foods–but in general, East African women can be quite busty and slim.
Also West African girls can be too. This is a combination of genetics, diet and climate. The diet in Africa will significantly impact a girls breast size and lack there of . The more complex carbs (fufu, injera, ugali, beans, chickpeas, lentils)–in the right portions, the less animal fat (dairy, meat) the bigger her breast and the slimmer her hips and thighs. Factor in that the vitamin D intake is high due to many parts of Africa being sunny and warm–which in turn metabolizes carbs better.
I think it would do African Americans wonders to just visit their ancestral homeland and see for themselves that the reality is black women there come in all phenotypes–and they are STILL black women–no mistaking it.
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Makes me laugh reading these comments, claiming many excuses but the reality is black women on general are ugly.
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Although I understand this may not be all that relevant to white beauty standards or the post at large–the above that I described is the unmentioned African beauty standard.
Plenty of African girls and women look this way, but they don’t make a big deal out of it in their daily lives. It is only during traditional ceremonies, parties, special occasions where this could potentially be a problem for young women who don’t fit this standard. If you are asked to do any traditional dancing–your breasts also have to dance, so flat chested or oddly shaped girls don’t get asked to present the dances. Not fair, but such is life.
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?
Yes:
Berlin during WWII
The Bosnian and Herzegovina war
What more do you need? Cause I could name plenty.
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loug1966: “BTW, have you ever seen a group of whites demolish a city, loot and burn, and murder because things dont go there way?”
Historical documentation of whites demolishing, looting, burning cities “because thing don’t go there (should be “their”) way:
-Greenwood, Oklahoma
-Rosewood, Florida
-New York City, NY (during the 1865 Draft Riots)
-Chicago 1919 Race Riot
-1983 invasion of the tiny nation of Grenada by the United States
Just to name a few.
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Ooops.
That should be 1863 Draft Riots.
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Uh in addition to WWII, and The Bosnian War, don’t forget WWI, Apartheid riots during the 80’s.
So yeah.
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If Black women were/are so ugly, then why were they raped en masse by so many whites. During slavery. When considered “subhuman”? Not even miscegenation laws could keep the pink willy away from poor slave women.
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I have to admit that darq has a point about white men raping black women. I see it on the news all the time. Like Tawana Brawley and Crystal Mangum. Did I leave any out?
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If black women were so beautiful why the lack of black porn? White women are men’s choice for a reason. Make all the excuses you wish.
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@ Mr. Rapist. I’m glad there’s a lack of Black porn. It’s demeaning. If you want your women engaging in that sort of thing, then good for you. If that’s something you’re proud of.
@Duck
What do those two people have to do with the fact that over 85% of Black people in America have European blood? That their ancestors were repeatedly raped. Did you leave any out? I don’t know. Ask Strom Thurmond and Thomas Jefferson. 🙂
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What makes you think “rape” is the only way for mixed children to occur?
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I don’t think white slave owners raping black women had much to do with attraction–at all. That was more about humiliating black people as a whole–so much so that it emasculated the black man. When men rape (any woman no matter what her color) that is usually not about love or physical attraction. It is about domination and control.
Sometimes you have to separate the obvious out. I would say historically–the only non black men who colonized African– who you could possibly say were attracted to black women out of love and respect were Arab men. I say this because they mostly married black women and gave the children their names and claimed them–although most times the children of such marriages had to be raised Muslim. Still this was not the best arrangement as Arab men had a legal “right’ to black women, but black men could not take Arab wives.
As a black women that ish is nothing to brag about. . .
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Then again, you could also argue that because black people at one point were the “light of the world”, roughly for 10,000 years–black men did intermarry at their own free will–not very much–but they did and so did black women.
It could be argued that historically–black people overwhelmingly–have preferred each other romantically.
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phoebeprunelle
I’m not an expert on the history of africans and arabs but I’ve read some. And based on what little I’ve read the arabs didn’t marry them. They kept them as concubines. And they mostly killed any children.
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@ Duck
So the fact that many Black people have mixed ancestry is due to the overwhelming number of love matches between slave women and slave owners? I don’t get your point.
@ Phoebe
The rape of Black women is a complex issue. It was about power, domination, latent attraction and a plethora of other reasons. I don’t know what kind of sick mind would “brag” about this. To say that white men were not attracted to slave women is an erroneous statement. Anti-miscegenation laws were put into place to combat Black men from copulating with White women. Not for White men who lusted after Black women. Like Thurmond, you can have someone say vile things about the Black race, yet go hoping into bed with them in secret. It reminds me of politicians who claim to hate homosexuals, but are then caught trolling for men in public restrooms.
“Me thinks the lady doth protest too much” comes to my mind.
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Hmmm, what’s worse? Killing your offspring with Black women or “just” enslaving them?
They’re both deplorable.
Anyways, Black women run the gamut just like any race of women. Some are breathtakingly beautiful. Some are jaw droppingly ugly. Most fall in the in between category. To say that Black women aren’t attractive as a broad generalization is ridiculous.
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@duckduckgoofs,
Yes–Arab men did marry quite a few African women. Dr. Ivan Van Sertima talks a lot about this and you go to the coast of Tanzania, Zanzibar you will see the history of this.
@darqbeauty
Yes–the rape of black women is complex. No denying that–but to say that it was mainly due to physical attraction–I take issue with that. Sure there were white men who were attracted to black women–who could blame them–but that whole history was very brutal and just not one I think is comparable to wholesome attraction.
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@ phoebe
I never said that it was. I think you should reread my comment. I’m rereading my own comment just to see if I might have mistakenly given off that vibe, but I don’t see it. Perhaps you could point out what part of my statement led you to believe I thought that. But then again sarcasm and cynicism is hard to detect without tonal inflection. I’m sorry if you thought that’s what I was saying. Because nothing could be further from the truth. The rape of Black women was rooted in the need to dominate an already dominated people. It was rooted in exoticism. It was rooted in hate. It was rooted in attraction. I never said that was the main reason and I would think, given the nature of this blog and the consciousness of those therein, that it would be taken that way.
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“They’re both deplorable.”
When have I said otherwise? I was simply stating what I remembered having read. I thought someone might be interested.
“To say that Black women aren’t attractive as a broad generalization is ridiculous.”
When have I said that?
Please don’t make assumptions as to what I think or mean. I choose my words very carefully. And if I say something or don’t say something its usually for a reason. If you want to know something ask. I might not answer but I’d prefer that you ask than assume.
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*didn’t think
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phoebeprunelle
North Africa and the Middle East cover a lot of territory and span thousands of years. I’m sure different things happened at different times.
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@ Duck
The only assumption I make about you is that you are a bigot. 🙂
Do you think Black women are ugly? Since you interjected yourself into my conversation, then perhaps you can give me your stand point.
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@darqbeauty
Thanks for the clarification. I was not trying to be sarcastic or anything. Believe me what you say makes tons of sense, but somehow it just hard for me to conceptualize attraction via rape.
@duckduckgoofs,
You are right, but the most positive aspects of human history–*coughs* some white scholars *coughs again* tend to leave out to justify the atrocities committed against people of color.
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@ phoebe
Now THAT was certainly sarcasm! lol 😉
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Because Jada Fire, Cherokee D’Ass, Kitten , Pinky,Janet Jacme, Skyy Black, Vanessa Blue Ebony Ayes, Beauty Dior, Marie Luv , Roxy Reynolds, Lacey Duvalle, Sinnamon Love, Alexis Silver, Kapri Styles, Nyomi Banxxx, Misty Stone, Candice Blake, Melrose Foxxx, Millian Blu, Aurora Jolie, Heather Hunter, Jeannie Pepper, Sydnee Capri, Ayana Angel, Angel Eyes and Carmen Hayes are just figments of my imagination.
Here are about 20 more for you to check out.
http://www.complex.com/girls/2011/08/the-top-50-hottest-black-porn-stars/
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darq
The only assumption I make about you is that you are a bigot.
I’m sure you have. And I think the same of you.
you think Black women are ugly? Since you interjected yourself into my conversation, then perhaps you can give me your stand point.
Yes, I apologize for interjecting myself into your screed about how white men are rapists.
As for the rest, I’ve never given it much thought one way or the other.
>
>
phoebeprunelle
What do you think I’ve attempted to justify?
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@ Duck
I said slave owners and antebellum whites were rapist. Your comprehension skills need a bit of refinement.
Anyways, why don’t you give it some thought. However, I find it an odd response seeing as how men don’t really need to ruminate over whether they find someone ugly or not. You would be a first.
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@satanforce
What, no love for Jenna Brooks and Kiss Promise?
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@ D.
Just heard of those two. However, as I have now developed a pathological fear and hatred for black women, I will not be watching those two. At all.
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Darq
You should watch some of the shows Henry Louis Gates hosted about African ancestry. They use genealogy and DNA to trace down family history. And a lot of the stories and beliefs people have about their families turn out to be completely wrong. They even traced down some of Gates white ancestors. The stories of how it happened would change how you view history.
Anyways, why don’t you give it some thought. However, I find it an odd response seeing as how men don’t really need to ruminate over whether they find someone ugly or not. You would be a first.
My attractions are mostly mental, not physical. Until someone piques my interest through intellect, they’re not even on the radar.
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@ Duck
I watch the show and I particularly enjoyed the one last week with Robert Downey Jr. Gates story is one of many. For every story of true love there are hundreds more where “love” was taken forcefully. Like my great grandmother.
Remember the discussion we had earlier about assumptions? Perhaps you should have asked me if I have seen the show instead of talking down to me and making assumptions based on what you think you know about Black people and their viewing habits. I’m going to bed. I have finals this week and next. Goodnight.
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@ Duck
And I also find it quite telling that you cannot answer a simple question as to whether or not you think Black women are ugly. Men are mostly visually stimulated. This is a scientific fact. Please don’t insult my intelligence (again) and tell me that you have NEVER been able to ascertain whether or not a woman is attractive until after you’ve become aware of intellect. Or lack thereof. You’re on a Black blog. I don’t understand the need to pussyfoot around.
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You tell em, Satan !!! Thanks for including some of my favorites, how dare anyone implicate what is the favorite in terms of porn
Oh black women, I feel so much for you all to ever have to question your wonderful beauty and grace
Dont ever let any creeps give you any doubt about all the incredible features that make you exactly you. Everyone has their own tastes and preferances, but, make no mistake, their are legions and legions of men of all colors that love black women of all colors.
This crap about “loud” or “aggresive” is just some media fed stereo type like about hair or culture. Dont ever buy into it
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Shout out “hey!” to Marie and Misty…!!
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Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. If beauty can’t be seen it says more about the person seeing than the person seen. We should not empower people that see a lack of beauty. I have been fortunate enough to see beautiful women in all hues. As Eleanor Roosevelt said: “No one can make your feel inferior, without your consent.”
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“phoebeprunelle
What do you think I’ve attempted to justify?”
I did not say you attempted to justify anything. I don’t even know you–I simply meant that as a person who taught sixth grade social studies–some white textbook writers and historians leave out the more positive aspects of human history–particularly when it is beneficial for people of color to know these things.
You–as in the rhetorical you–have to realize that Europeans have colonized the retelling of history so that it reinforces their goodness, competency, etc. Are all white scholars this way? No. As a matter of fact there are those who can be honest and hard hitting and would rather black people tell our story, but these whites are a rarity.
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@Mr Racist
If black women were so beautiful why the lack of black porn?
LMAO
If this is the only way this man can ascertain beauty why would any woman want him, or care for that matter.
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@Demerera
He would have a valid point, if only Jim Lendermen hadn’t published the book “Secret History of the Black Pin Up”
Things that make you go hmmmmmmmmm
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Nothing significant to add as i’m sure it has been stated already but nothing wrong with repetition when it comes to this topic:
Beautiful women just like average and below avergae women are everywhere…all over this planet. No one ethnic group/ or “race” has a monopoly on beauty; beauty truly is an the eye of the beholder. With that said, white women really are given way to much ‘beauty’ credit and by extension pale skin. Those stuck on “white is right” and ‘black women are ugly’ schemas need to make the obvious connection between racism and capitalism. (talking to you Mr. Racist-duh)
I’m already brown and look forward to browning up even further during the summer. SAY IT LOUD: I AM BLACK AND PROUD! You couldn’t pay me to trade the skin I’m in for white skin. No thank you-NEXT.
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@ everyone
I don’t even understand why this is a topic for concern.
If black women are so ugly, then why are we here? We all come from a black woman in one form or another.
As for white men…Listen, white men have always wanted us.
They left their doll-like white wives in bed to suffer the pain of neglect while they feasted on black flesh.
This created an ENTIRE generation of people, like me, called Mulatto.
Give me a break.
Black women are the most daring, audacious , strong, able-bodied, mentally fierce, envied creature on Earth.
We rule.
And others know it.
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Before I say anything, I would like to say my comments don’t mean discard this battleground of “black women are seen as ugly”.
Seeing satanforce reply back to the comment about porn and black women with naming a whole bunch of black women in that business in what I can only assume is an attempt to show the original poster that black women are as much represented in porn as white women to me this indicated falling into atrap set by white power.
Just think back to when you were very very young. Beautiful didn’t really mean much to you. Your way of categorizing the world was yet to be instilled into you. When was the first time you said, “that’s beautiful, that’s ugly”. My point is the idea of beauty and ugliness is instilled into us by society, by the people around us once we get to a certain age. Ask yourself, who instills those ideas to those people that instill those ideas into you. Then keep going back… I believe you’ll land at the doorstep of white power.
I mean, yes we are human and for the most part we have a sexual drive. But how/what we are attracted to depends on alot of factors most of which are out of our direct control as individuals… In a society where they prize physical appearance over everything else, then people will go for looks over character, personality etc. In a society where people prize personality, character over everything else, then people will be more attracted to those who show that. The point being, even though we have innate drives as human beings, society/environment plays a huge role in determining there final character.
So for me, the whole thing about arguing beauty standards blacks v whites is futile if we come at it using the same definitions fed to us by white power. White women are exploited, look at advertisements etc… I would say white women in the modern world are the most exploited sexually, women of other races are just ignored or looked down upon. Black women shouldn’t fight for the right to be as equally exploited because this “beauty” standard has attached to it “exploitation”. At the end of the day that word beauty doesn’t belong to the female. It belongs to those that objectify and want her. If that person is an exploitative low life who has really no respect for you, then what does it matter if he says you are beautiful/ugly. I say this because in my opinion society in general is an exploitative low life thing that has zero respect for women and to me the best response to it, if I were a woman, will be to ignore it and not waste energy trying to prove how beautiful I am to it. This is obviously hard since as people we all want to be seen, recognized and appreciated but we should be careful not to crave this from exploitative elements that don’t have our best interest at heart.
However it is important to talk about this stereotype as it helps educate those who unwillingly fall for it. And the truth is that WE ALL unwillingly fall for it because our minds are super suggestible.
I don’t know if that made sense.
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“So for me, the whole thing about arguing beauty standards blacks v whites is futile if we come at it using the same definitions fed to us by white power”
Okay this is were I take issue; no one is saying white women are not attractive, or pitting white women and black women agaisnt each other.
I think Abagond is only saying that women of African descent have been the butt of white peoples jokes about body shape, hair texture, and facial features. Normal, healthy black people (and whites and Asians) will see these features as indication of the diversity of human phentotype. Not as something freakish.
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Perhaps you should have asked me if I have seen the show
Perhaps you should have asked me which series. Gates has hosted several and ‘Finding Your Roots’ isn’t the one I was talking about.
Men are mostly visually stimulated. This is a scientific fact.
Oh yeah? Why are you interested in whether I’m “visually stimulated”? Are you going to send me a picture or something? haha
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@ phoebeprunelle
By blacks v whites I meant using white expectations as a marker for black beauty. Sorry for my wording.
My whole point was that that “marker” needs to be changed by completely re-framing the whole discussion. Since as you said, if you go by that marker, then the diversity is seen as something freakish.
I think we are on the same page.
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@wilson,
Ok thanks for clarifying. I see your drift.
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@phoebeprunelle
He would have a valid point, if only Jim Lendermen hadn’t published the book “Secret History of the Black Pin Up”
Aha! Education for me here cos I didnt know such a book existed either.
@Satanforce
Shame on you for not naming me as your #1 Pin up 😉
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I don’t know about anyone else but I happen to be beautiful. That is not even the most awesome thing! I have smooth, soft, chocolate skin the doesn’t age fast. Pictures from my teens can not be distinguished from recent pictures. Just compare a black 30 year old woman to a white 30 year old woman with both having on no make up. My mother is 54 and not a wrinkle in sight. She had dangerous curves and people are shocked when they find out her age. I don’t care what a bunch of racist think about me because they are not who define me. Beauty comes in all colors, shapes, and sizes but I am biased because pecan tan to the darkest berry is beautiful to me. I will be the first to admit that I am highly attracted to dark men. He can look like a shadow on a white wall and my knees will get weak. Darker the berry sweeter the juice; darker the skin, deeper the roots. Keep your head up ladies. Confidence makes your beauty shine even brighter.
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Your last line is worth repeating a 1,000 times.
Confidence is where it’s at ladies!!!
Now you’ve put Tupac in my head Cleonette, lol!
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Of course not. You’re black, and I have a pathological hatred of black women and an irrational fear of the black female body.
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Well, black women are extremly well endowed with inner beauty . Speaking about black American women ( because of course there are black women all over the world who are gorgeous, I just want to focus a statement about black American women and how I perceived them as I was growing up), one thing that became very clear to me as I became more and more aware of racism in society and discrimination and general obsticles thrown on a race exactly because of their color, and they were the descendants of slaves from Africa , I began to respect so very much , the poise and dignity and grace , that the black American woman possesed in the face of these things. And , it translated into perceiving wonderful inner beauty and strength , that I respected a lot and it was a turn on also. Of course I also respecte black American men for this also, and admired them for the struggle they faced and it gave me a lot of inspiration, along with the women, about how to face life and deal with the hard things life dishes up to all of us.
But, look, black women deserve as much as any women anywhere in the world to bask in the gaze of so many of us who absolutly adore them and are moved and inspired and pasionate for exactly how they look and move and walk and talk …in any and all the incredible hues , and anyway they choose to wear their hair or dress…and how much we want to know them and what makes them tick and how they think and feel about life
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Well, black women are extremly well endowed with inner beauty .
Oh, tish! Anytime someone starts out like that you know it’s bad. Kind of like, “Yeah, but she has a really great personality.” I can’t believe you’d even say something like that. Don’t you realize how that sounds?
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The only thing science knows for sure in regards to the primitive nature of some modern humans is that Europeans are part Neanderthal, which is a species of hominid generally considered less evolved and less intelligent than Homo Sapiens. It has been definitively confirmed that Africans are the only humans that do not have any Neanderthal in them, but are 100% Homo sapien.
Sadly, a white racist can call an African person an ‘ape’ all day and night. It doesn’t change the fact that no matter how much he rants and raves, he is less evolved and closer to an ape than any African person on the planet.
Facts are facts. The science is undeniable. Kinda sucks for the now 100% invalidated and pathetic white racist.
Source: Extremely pale white person who is embracing the now confirmed White Neanderthal Ape heritage.
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Think it was confirmed via DNA analysis in 2011, actually:
http://www.nature.com/news/2010/100506/full/news.2010.225.html
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@ the world we live in
IKR! Just listen to that song though! It’s prophetic! Say what they will about Tupac, he knew what was really going on.
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test
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Duckgoofs, if that is what you got out of my post , you have serious reading comprehension skills…
True beauty is inside and out, and black women have both in abundance
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Of course not. You’re black, and I have a pathological hatred of black women and an irrational fear of the black female body.
Of course *smh*, LOL
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“The only thing science knows for sure in regards to the primitive nature of some modern humans is that Europeans are part Neanderthal”
You don’t have to look far for these; Although considered lovely women, Julia Roberts and Barbara Streisand have these very Neanderthal features.
There is no getting around it; We ALL look more like our ancestors than not.
Black ladies in Ethiopia/The Great Rift Valley still look a lot like “Lucy” or “Dinqnash” with there slender frames and high foreheads and very deep cheekbones–beauty comes a dime a dozen.
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Guys
Do you realize how insane it is that these white racists come here to argue that we are ugly and inferior? If not for black women, the world would perish. We built this nation, brick by brick, nurtured it’s men, cared for it’s desendants, black and white, and allowed it to suckle at our teats til it grew fat and rotund.
Even today, white women cut themselves up by a surgeons knife to have our features and curves. Angelina Jolie is prized for having our features. Jennifer Lopez is prized for our curves. And please don’t get me started on tanning!
Bo Derek was thrown into stardom for Cornrows. Raquel Welch for her full fugure, as well Sophia Loren ( a throw back to the full figured “Mammy”) and every fiesty, fiery, bitchy, blonde cheerleader type is the white version of “Sapphire”.
Every smooth, cool ,sweet talking, charlie sheen wannabe is Richard Roundtree.
Guys, we rule. America wouldn’t be here if not for us.
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Saying “white” is racist in itself if your going to say things about people take the race out of the mix say this is what “some people think” this is what “racists think” because your lumping whites in with racists you are in fact being racist and culturally insensitive, Stereotyping is how racism starts and by commenting on these boards posting things like this shows how ignorant and stereotypical you all really are. There are racists of all color, what everyone needs to do is stop lumping everyone together because of where they’re from or what they look like, it’s about the individual themselves. Get that through your thick skulls and end the racism that your breeding amongst each other
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Yes sah! Clown!
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I hate to say this but black women as a percentage are just not as pretty as other races. Why do you think black men chase after white women and white men want white or asian women.
Black women are also wayyyyy to disrespectful to their men…not sure if it is cultural or just a product of upbringing.
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Everyone:
Randy is spoiling for a fight. Please do not take the bait.
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Cmon , Randy, that is just a blatent ignorant statement. Black men dont go chasing after white women, the majority are with black women. Its natural for people everywhere to be atracted to other types of people, its really natural, what is not natural is to try to make it seem like some group of women are less atractive than another.Or that it isnt ok to go out with other people that look differant.
Any kind of discusion that tries to make the black woman seem less atractive than other women is seriously flawed. Its like vomiting lies in the face of overwelming truth of the beauty, grace, sensuality and culture the black woman represents
I pity people stuck on some train of thought that the black woman is less atractive than other women…such delusion, they are sure missing it…let them miss it…stay away…you just dont get it
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I just got back from Rio , and,saw a huge stage production of folklorico music and dance, with mostly an all black cast, and lots of black women dancing…..unbeleivable beauty and grace…my gosh, seeing the Afro Brazilian woman dancing her Afro Brazilian culture and in the costumes of her country, including the fio dental passista costume, well , women dont get any more beautiful than that…
I also saw some black women on the beach in fio dentals and the incredible shape and curves all flowing out in sensuality and drop dead gorgousness, just defines female beauty and sensuality on its highest terms…
Any one who couldnt apreciete that kind of beauty is wound up too tight inside
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[quote]test[/quote]
test
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Randy:
Randy, you are certainly welcome to your opinion as to what you consider beautiful. What I object to however is stating an opinion as if it were an immutable fact or some universal constant. What I think you could more accurately say is that N. American white men don’t pursue black women. In Europe you will see a much more even ratio of WM/BF couples as there are BM/WF. African-American women I know that have vacationed in Europe are often surprised at the level of attention they receive. I don’t think European men have as many hangups about the phenotype of black women as white American men do, from my casual observation. So my point here is that this is all relative to the society you live in.
As for black men chasing white women. This is mantra that has been repeated by paranoid white American males going back to slavery times. The horny black buck stereotype whose penis is a heat-seeking missile aimed at white females. Gimme a break, man. If you want to know what black males idealize, then just open up lifestyle magazines(such as King or Black Men magazine) written by black males FOR black males. You will not see any white women other than Kim Kardashian. Most are carmel-skinned/exotic black women with enormous asses. Ditto for the video vixens used in hiphop videos(http://alturl.com/8fg7c). If black men were solely pursing white women, then why don’t they place more prominently in black male media? N. American white men have a different ideal model of beauty, it tends to be *skinny* tall blondes whereas black men like thick, “exotic” racially-ambiguous looking women like Esther Baxter, Angel Lola or Kim Kardashian.
I’d say in my personal observation, black men don’t care all that much about race one way or the other when it comes to dating. Most of us are pretty open in that regard. From the perspective of white males, this comes across as “chasing white women” because inevitably if you are 6% of the population in a country where the majority of the women are white, that will mean you will probably approach quite a number of white females as well, even if you have no bias for or against any race. That’s why it “looks” like black males chase white women. If a white male were living in Detroit and were completely neutral in his racial preferences, most of the women he would date would end up being black. I have known few black men who date white women to the complete exclusion of all other women, despite the stereotypes. Even the black guys I know that do prefer white woman sure as hell wouldn’t kick Gabrielle Union out of their bed.
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Randy, after all these years on Abagond I think you would have given up on obvious trolling.
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I am glad Abagond appreciates the beauty of a Black woman. Yes, I do believe Black is beautiful.
In the area, I live in, it is full of rednecks and racists. 90% of White males wouldn’t date a Black girl and they feel that they are not attractive, treat their men badly etc. They believe the sterotypes.
I don’t fit those sterotypes of a Black girl and I am pretty, polite, kind and get good grades. I don’t care if most White American men don’t find Black women attractive. I don’t need the White man’s approval to validate my beauty because beauty is in the eye of the beholder. .
I know I am a beautiful young Black woman.
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“I have feeling this “randy” is not our usual Randy….”
****
I agree Bulanik. Regular Randy is a trip, but he’s hardly one to make an asinine/disparaging statement about black women. Randy’s the most *gentlemanly* diehard racist I’ve ever had the displeasure of consistently rolling/cutting my eyes and shaking my head at. And his syntax is quite different.
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I was surprised by this comment by Randy too, good catch!!
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@ Bulanik and Matari
You are right guys…sorry luvs, they all start to “look alike” to me.
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@Adeen Danica Mckenzie
You’re right…Blacks shouldn’t define beauty based on white people’s standards. Beauty is 100% subjective. Not everyone thinks white women are more beautiful, and not even all white men think every white woman is beautiful.
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Ah… that explains it.
1) Regular Randy
2) Fool Randy
Sorry Regular Randy, I should have caught that.
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You know, they say beauty is in the eye of the beholder. But, what if that beholder has a white male supremacist mindset?
That is the problem with the world with white males in charge of most of the images. Let’s be real. It’s the mindset like that of Randy that’s determining what is considered as “beautiful” and what is considered “ugly”. It regulates the image down to one compact standard according to whiteness.
It’s like a stab in the heart to be told that you’re not beautiful because it’s outside the social standard based on the white man’s opinion which then becomes a fact through aggressive means. It’s like saying that you were born with deficiencies and you have only yourself to blame. In my opinion it’s one of the worst examples of dehumanization imaginable.
And before anyone says anything, yes, I AM blaming the white man. So, sue me.
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brothawolf:
Let’s keep in mind that we are talking primarily about N. American white males. Let’s not assume that a situation that exist in America is necessarily universal. As I said previously, interracial dating/marriage amongst African women and European men is far higher than it is in the United States. The hangups whites have with black women in the USA isn’t universally shared. There was also a study in England not long ago that said Britons consider mixed-race people more attractive than white people:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/wales/8618606.stm
One black woman’s story of how much better she as a black woman is received abroad than in the USA:
http://newsone.com/1862895/black-women-dating-non-black-men-abroad/
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Absolutly, Brothawolf , I saw a documentary on the modeling industry once, and, some of the movers and shakers were sitting down in Italy and they blatently dissed black woman’s beauty…I mean these are the people who hire the models and that is what is seen by the rest of the world as suposedly beauty standards…what a sick joke…its sure not my beauty standards
By the way , no matter which Randy it is, what I said above goes for anyone thinking like that
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And these movers and shakers were not American, by the way…
And it sure exists in Brazil, in a bigger way than the USA…racist colorisation and white beauty standards being pushed as the best
i disagree its only North America
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@ B.R.
I’m not saying that white beauty standards don’t reign outside the US. My point is that the nearly pathological obsession with the “ugliness” of black women that you see with racist American white men. You can be in a country like Argentina and people will still view blonde haired women as supreme, but at the same time, a black woman there will still have no shortage of attention from men. Same with Italy.
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I’d just like to say that if it is true (which I do not believe for a minute) that all white men find all black women to be unattractive, then that is probably a good thing for the black woman. White men, on the average, are not all that attractive. I mean, sure, you have your “stars,” who look okay, but I think one of the main reasons so many white women are looking for black men, is that they too find many–if not most, white men to be weak, feminine, redneckish, and just plain ignorant and racist. Who would want to date or marry that? So let me give a great big sigh of relief that most of us black women don’t have to worry about being pursued by men so vile and repulsive their own women, who they find utterly and amazingly beautiful, DON’T WANT THEM!
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Postscript to my last response. When is someone going to start a blog called “Why white men are seen as ugly?” That would be a good one.
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OK, Tulio, I see what you are saying…right on this blog, we have heard some of the dumbest things coming from white Americans about the black woman…
I do see in Brazil, an insidious colorisation, put downs on black women’s hair, which I find gorgous, by the way , exclusion from a presence in the media (its slowly improving with quotas put in place, but , very frustrating for those of us who would like to see Afro Brazilian culture and lives truly represented besides the national soccar team and carnival, even in carnival, in Bahia, the largest black population in Brazil, the carnival makes threee white women the top performers instead of the huge pool of black talent that exists there).
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@Tulio,
Yet earlier you said that “black men prefer racially ambiguous looking women.”
It’s amazing no one has pointed out that flawed reasoning, because while you were clearing up one lie about ALL black men chasing white women, you started another by saying the above comment.
I can assure you that Black Men magazine does not represent the preferences for even half of all U.S. born black men and with an 88% marriage figure of black men married to black women–these black women come in ALL shades, hair types, features, etc.
Just by my own expereinces, black men tend to end up with ALL kinds of black women–but get this–you can see that they are indeed black.
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@Adeen
“In the area, I live in, it is full of rednecks and racists. 90% of White males wouldn’t date a Black girl and they feel that they are not attractive, treat their men badly etc. They believe the sterotypes.”
Ouch, that’s terrible to hear.
We have that situation around my area sorta, where most couples you see in public usually consists of whites/asians, mono-racial couples, but never black/other.
It’s depressing to notice that while some people are mixing, most still seem to exclude blacks whenever possible for whatever reason. Hopefully that changes though, as around here we have a lot of different folks from different backgrounds and races.
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@Yawn
Or could it be that lots of black people may not be as interested in mixing?
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@Phoebe
“Or could it be that lots of black people may not be as interested in mixing?”
Well I never included a statement like that because I don’t see a problem with it, because people will generally date those who are the same background/race as themselves.
BUT what I notice here is generally a lack of interest in blacks from others, not just blacks not being inclusive. This delves deeper into other causes but I won’t get into it.
What I will say is that some blacks, despite wanting or having no preference when it comes to date/marry will have no option BUT to date/marry other blacks because of the lack of notice from others.
But as I say, it delves deeper and I do not want to open up that can of worms. it’s better to just observe where this leads to in the future as opposed to speculating.
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It seems to me that many of the white men who post here are unusually concerned with black women, or why else would they be here commenting at all? Also, and this is nothing new, many seem preoccupied with trying to make black women feel badly about themselves, as if the prize of prizes in the world of dating is a white man. C’mon. The white man, these days, is most desired by … wait for it, OTHER WHITE MEN. They’re really into each other these days as many new TV shows are demonstrating their “new normal.” I think it’s great. I want more of them to get together, that way fewer of them will be born.
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@Major
“It seems to me that many of the white men who post here are unusually concerned with black women, or why else would they be here commenting at all?”
That’s a stupid argument.
It implies that topics related to how whites see women of other races can’t be comment upon by whites. It’s like saying “we’re going to make a topic related to IR and mixed marriage but only those who oppose them can post”.
You’ve gotta be willing to be open to dialogue, even if you don’t personally find interest in the topic at hand.
And considered this thread was labelled “why black women are seen as ugly” and includes whites why can’t they post? I mean, besides barring the obvious racist ones who stir up trouble (which I was not when I posted).
So, what’s the problem?
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@Yawn. “It seems to me that many of the white men who post here are unusually concerned with black women, or why else would they be here commenting at all?”
You said: That’s a stupid argument.
I say it’s not a stupid argument. I say it doesn’t matter that the topic is labeled “why black women are seen as ugly.” I’m sure there are topics on the Internet with mean-spirited and racist labels targeting white men, and yet, I’m not writing on those sites commenting, at all, because I don’t care to. White men, for the most part, are “invisible people” to me. I’m saying if all white men find all black women to be “ugly,” then that would be the best reason of all for none of them to come to any site where they could come in contact with the horror of horrors, a black woman.
I have no interest in white men, whatsoever, so I couldn’t care less about the ones that think black women are ugly. When you don’t find a group to be attractive, and you have no interest in them, then you don’t seek them out. At all.
I don’t seek white men out in any way, form, or fashion. Most are racist, mean-spirited, and hateful toward all black people. All that’s missing is the pointed white hood/dunce cap. So why in the world would I want to say anything at all on websites targeting white men? You see? My argument is far from “stupid.” But I wouldn’t expect it to be taken any other way by a white man. I’m as open to dialogue as I need to be, and I don’t have anything to prove to you or to anyone else.
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@Major
” I’m saying if all white men find all black women to be “ugly,” then that would be the best reason of all for none of them to come to any site where they could come in contact with the horror of horrors, a black woman.”
And that’s a generalisation, because not all think that, and not all (even if some do) would say it publicly. Yet you’re painting all of them with the same brush.
“I have no interest in white men, whatsoever, so I couldn’t care less about the ones that think black women are ugly. When you don’t find a group to be attractive, and you have no interest in them, then you don’t seek them out. At all.”
And that’s your obviously preference, and as I said I don’t object to people who prefer to date those who fit their preference or neutrally go for those of their own race. And I’m sure some whites who’ve posted or post on the internet related to topics like this don’t disrespect any kind of women by openly state “their ugly” unless they’re out to purposely hurt others.
“I don’t seek white men out in any way, form, or fashion. Most are racist, mean-spirited, and hateful toward all black people. All that’s missing is the pointed white hood/dunce cap. So why in the world would I want to say anything at all on websites targeting white men? You see? My argument is far from “stupid.” But I wouldn’t expect it to be taken any other way by a white man. I’m as open to dialogue as I need to be, and I don’t have anything to prove to you or to anyone else.”
Again you resort to typical generalisations, as you’re stating “most”. Do you know me personally to make that observation? How about the white people in Canada, or the US? Or Europe? Have you gauged all their opinions? No.
And again, you think because all whites are racist and mean-spirited and hateful towards blacks that all should therefor be considered as such and should not post? Again, yes it is stupid to assume so.
Also, I’m laughing that you brought up race into this, as I’ve not specifically called out your post because of your race, yet you felt the need to bring up “But I wouldn’t expect it to be taken any other way by a white man.” as If you know my race.
“and I don’t have anything to prove to you or to anyone else.”
That’s fine, but who said you needed to? I surely didn’t, I just thought it was stupid to exclude those who’s views your currently talking about.
*rolls eyes* why bother with honest discussions.
Here, I’ll throw you a freebie. I as a person of unknown race think black women are ugly .. there now your view is valid.
If I truly hated black people why would I be here? Please, I want your honest opinion, you seem to have me figured out while I sit here confused.
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@Peanut
“u realize it’s the easiest thing to get a man to sleep with you black or not. I’ve even had white men approach me before for this, it’s not difficult…”
Exactly, when it comes to who males sleep with race doesn’t have all that much affect on it. Studies have shown that males tend to not have any preference at all when it comes to race, but marriage is another dynamic where the strain comes full swing, if it lasts it lasts .. sadly many don’t. 😦
“but then again, to be honest, i am seeing more white men marrying black women. why my cousins i getting married in a couple months and her fiancee is a professional white male. so, it does happen, even if it’s less common.”
As long as she and he are happy, you can’t argue. Cheers to the soon-to-be newlyweds.
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@Yawn. “If I truly hated black people why would I be here? Please, I want your honest opinion, you seem to have me figured out while I sit here confused.”
I don’t know if you’re a white man, but you certainly seem to be posing as one if you’re not. I’ve been a black female American all my life, born in the racist South, so I can detect white male BS from a considerable distance.
And, yes, lots of white men come to this site because they truly hate black people, especially black women. They know that most of us don’t prefer them, and that irks them a bit, even though they don’t prefer us either. They still want us to be salivating in desire for them, even though they don’t like us. Well, too bad. Most black women don’t have anything at all, other than humanity, in common with most white men. That’s just a fact of life. And with the male of the species being the aggressor in most instances, I don’t expect to see a lot of black women and white men dating. Most black women go ahead and presume, and I think they’re right to do so, that the average white man is a racist. And, being mentally competent, the average black woman would not dare date a racist white man. Who in their right mind, other than a racist white woman, would want a racist white man?
White women chase black men thinking they’re going to get a better “brand” of sex and friendship than they believe is possible with a white man. White girls chase my brothers, my nephews, all the men in my family, pretty much. But the men in my family who are married, are married to beautiful black women.
And yes, this site is like “chum” to the breed of racist white men who come here. The site gives them a chance to show out like the hateful people many of them truly are. White supremacists who think the world revolves around them. That’s your “average” white man.
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@Peanut
“It comes off like the men are either sexually frustrated because they CAN’T get a black woman or are gay OR and this is a BIG ONE, they’re intimidated or threatened by Black men and Black women are a TOOL to express their superiority to Black men.”
Fully agree! I have some friends (both male and female) who’ve gone full swing in bringing up black males and females every day in conversations even though they “hate” them. I generally look at them every time and think “ugh, here we go again ..” and tell them new topic because I do not want to have that conversation with them about it.
“I know a lot of sports forums white men will be talking about football, b-ball and other sports where Black men are somewhat over-represented and it always goes into black football players, basketball players and how they are and who they date, then someone will bring up p-nis size and then from there it turns into a black woman bash fest, I’ve noticed that. Maybe they’re lashing out because they feel they can’t compete with black men sexually and black women are an easy target to take that resentment out on…or maybe they’re jealous for whatever reason”
I’ve seen it too, and personally I find it sad that they feel the need to talk about black penises and female vaginas. Most do seem somewhat intimidated, some seem threatened as well and I laugh at those that do.
“I don’t know guys, i’m just throwing stuff out there, but i’ve definitely noticed it.”
You’re pretty spot on to be honest, no need to second guess yourself.
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@Major
“I don’t know if you’re a white man, but you certainly seem to be posing as one if you’re not. I’ve been a black female American all my life, born in the racist South, so I can detect white male BS from a considerable distance.”
And as I take a general middle of the road stand, I kinda figured what type of person you’d be by your post. You seem to fit right in with Truthbetold, you can find her site in the links tab.
You’d be semi-right, I have my own mind with my own thoughts that sometimes either mend with white racists or don’t, but generally they don’t. In this particular instances, I’m the neutral one not you.
“And, yes, lots of white men come to this site because they truly hate black people, especially black women. They know that most of us don’t prefer them, and that irks them a bit, even though they don’t prefer us either. They still want us to be salivating in desire for them, even though they don’t like us. Well, too bad. Most black women don’t have anything at all, other than humanity, in common with most white men. That’s just a fact of life. And with the male of the species being the aggressor in most instances, I don’t expect to see a lot of black women and white men dating. Most black women go ahead and presume, and I think they’re right to do so, that the average white man is a racist. And, being mentally competent, the average black woman would not dare date a racist white man. Who in their right mind, other than a racist white woman, would want a racist white man?”
You’re still stuck on the generalisations, but I’ll just credit it to you being born in the south.
Some do, some don’t. As I said, you’ve stated you’d never date a white person .. did I get all huffy puffy about it? No, because I don’t have a problem your preference is your prerogative. I know you’re wrong anyway, so why bother being upset.
Most whites in the states perhaps don’t like blacks or prefer blacks because of the history of the states. In Canada it’s completely different, most stigma about dating and marrying blacks stems from stereotypes “the ghetto type” and all that other junk. Which is why I stated I find it odd that in my area where there are a lot of blacks, the couples I see consists of whites/asians asian/other white/other but never have I seen blacks/other, I have seen some blacks/whites though but far and few which I feel is mostly again due to stigma and other races generally avoiding blacks.
“Most black women go ahead and presume, and I think they’re right to do so, that the average white man is a racist.”
Which is false.
” And, being mentally competent, the average black woman would not dare date a racist white man.”
If they were mentally competent they’d date anyone who made them feel happy, race should not play any part it in.
All the all as I said, If you want to be all well I’m a black women and I only date black males, go do so. I never said you couldn’t, hell I openly endorse it, go be happy.
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“Maybe they’re lashing out because they feel they can’t compete with black men sexually and black women are an easy target to take that resentment out on…or maybe they’re jealous for whatever reason I don’t know guys, i’m just throwing stuff out there, but i’ve definitely noticed it.”
@Peanut. You sound like a psychologist, Peanut! Great observation. I think you’re right. There’s no other reason for the “insanity” of white men seeking and CREATING opportunities to bash black women. What have we done to them? If ignoring the hell out of them is a crime, then I guess we’re guilty of that, but other than that, I’m stomped for answers. Maybe they don’t like being ignored. Too bad. Many of their own women are ignoring the hell out of them too these days, while salivating over black men. And that’s probably part of the reason they want to bash us. They want to pretend and “high five” black men who can pull their women in droves, and then, at the same time, they want to bash us and say demeaning things about us, because they can’t say these things to black men. After all, most racist white men see the WHITE WOMAN as the Queen of the World, and Her Majesty can have anything she wants, even a black man. But then, they still have that anger that has to go somewhere, so it’s coming at us, black women, in full force. And it is only serving to make it even more clear to me, what I’ve known all along. The average white man is a very sick individual, psychologically. Extremely ill.
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@ Peanut,
Interesting way of looking at it. Never considered that some white men would do that as an attempt to get at black men. Nice observation that this comes out in like sports forums etc… Very interesting…
But yeah, I think any woman can pretty much get at least one guy out there within her immediate circle to sleep with her without much effort whilst the same is not true for guys. Marriage and long term commitment are different though.
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“I know there are white men who are very nice and respectful to people and truly just regard Black women as regular women and human beings.”
@Peanut. Lord, God I hope so. I was speaking about the racist white men too, as I stated several times. It just so happens that I believe the “average” white male is racist, especially when it comes to black people. Those white men who are very nice and respectful to people, who truly regard Black women as regular women and human beings need to speak up more often. And they need to do a lot of that speaking to the racist white men. As I’ve stated before, white men, in general, don’t usually cause a bleep on my radar. Nice or not, I don’t usually notice them. I’m not bashing them either. That’s all I ask in return.
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Yeah, Majorprincess, I agree too that those white men should speak up more often. They should let the racists know how beautiful and atractice they think black women are , and, that they would have no problem marrying a black woman if the right person came along….I certainly beleive that
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I think black women are very beautiful and attractive. I’m more attracted to them than white women in general. What’s not to like? The curves, the lips, the deep brown hazel eyes, the beautiful complexion. Did I mention the curves? I did, and I shall mention them again…a proper woman has shapes, breasts butt, hips, thighs the whole nine yards. I don’t want to date a skirt drying stick.
On a side note, since she was mentioned frequently, I never liked Angelina Jolie. Some people seem to think she has luscious lips, but I don’t think they look nice on her at all. So dry looking, not like proper full lips that are delicious like blossoming cherries waiting for to picked by another set of lips (preferably mine)…
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Phobeprunelle said:
Phobeprunelle, I don’t think there’s any flaw in my reasoning above. To reiterate my points:
1) Most black men do not chase white women. At least not to the exclusion of any other type of woman including black.
2) Most black men have a lighter skin preference in women, which is virtually universal amongst all men.
Of course black men will mostly marry black women of all colors. There is no other choice for the majority of them. Most men regardless of race don’t have a very wide choice of women to marry who would also be willing to marry them. What you have to look at is black men who have limitless choice in women. Black men who are wealthy, who are famous athletes or celebrities or in high power positions. They are amongst the relative few who can choose a woman of any phenotype they want. Almost all black men of power and celebrity end up with a woman lighter than they are. Barack Obama is the only exception I can think of off the top of my head. Now they don’t all end up with white women, but they often end up with a black woman who looks somewhat racially mixed — when given the choice.
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I do not understand why it matters what people think of us. It is what we think of ourselves that matter. Here in England too many black people date outside their race and I am a shamed to say I use to be one of them. White men (some) thought of me as beautiful and it was nice but in the end I married a black man and it was what he thought of me that matter the most- If I was to be concerned with any man’s opinion!
We need to move forward as a people and forget about the rest. There is a need for us to start protecting our culture that is being ripped off by so many whites, who hate us but want our music, style and language to call their own. I don’t know if you have noticed but every black music representative to come out of England just happened to be white i.e Adele, Jessie Jay, Joss Stone etc etc…. These are things that concern me. Not wither of not the world- particularly whites- finds me beautiful because to be perfectly honest I do not think much of them either. I find white people cheap and nasty! This is not a racist comment its just a matter of fact. People as shameless, disgusting and dishonest as white people should be ignored when they make degrading comments about us. At least we are not plastic! Plastic surgery on lips (to make fuller) bottom (to make rounder) and breast to make un-naturally large. These assets are organic to black women.
Like I said before I use to date white men but the one thing I noticed about them was they wanted me to adore them. They wanted me to feel lucky I was with a white man. Instead of them feeling lucky that a black woman had the good heart to forgive all the evil their race committed against blacks. In the end I just ‘kissed my teeth.’ -Much to their dissapointment – and said goodbye.
COME ON BLACK PEOPLE ‘KISS YOUR TEETH AND MOVE FORWARD’!
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Majorprincess2 said:
I obviously can’t speak to what’s happening in your family but I think people who claim white women are crazy about chasing black men are delusional for the most part. There’s a very strong stigma in America for white women who date black men. It’s a relative small minority of white women that have “jungle fever” and are looking for any sort of long-term commitment with a black man. There are some of course, but I’m talking about what’s common for the majority. If you look at any interracial dating/marriage statistics, white females of all women are the least likely to go out of their race. And if they do, they more likely end up with a Hispanic or Asian than a black man. You also made a claim about white men high-fiving black men who date women. That’s rubbish. White men generally can’t stand the sight of black men with white women. Most of them would never even date a white woman that they found out had been sexually active with black men prior. They will not express these views openly in public but if you read blogs where whites talk about race anonymously, this view is pretty much the norm.
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Viveen said:
Who cares? They are not stopping black people from making music. There are hiphop artists from Japan, should I be angry about that? Music doesn’t exclusively “belong” to anybody. And it’s not like blacks haven’t borrowed from whites as well. For example the musical instruments like pianos, strings, guitars, synthesizers as well as the musical scales and music theory are of European origin. Should whites feel ripped off that blacks are using those??
Juxtapose the italic comment with the bold comment. If anyone made those same comments about our race, you’d have no problem seeing the racism in it.
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^^^ It’s a deep seated psychological racism that goes back to slavery when white men would lynch a black man that so much as looked at a white woman, as well as stigmatize any white woman that associated with a black man. I don’t think that mentally has ever gone away, it’s just been repressed as one can’t express such views openly in modern society.
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Tulio said, “I obviously can’t speak to what’s happening in your family but I think people who claim white women are crazy about chasing black men are delusional for the most part.”
@Tulio. I am not delusional, but I think maybe you are. Anyone who thinks white women don’t chase black men (especially successful athletes) is delusional, for the most part. You can live inside the rose-colored world you’ve created in your mind if you want to. That’s your prerogative. I live in truth. My nephews have had to hide from white girls out to make them leave them alone! They prefer “other” women and black women, as romantic mates, not white ones. But that does not stop the white ones from the pursuit. It’s ridiculous.
Tulio said, “White men generally can’t stand the sight of black men with white women.” I have NO DOUBT that this is true. But it’s also true that when trying to act “cool” about it, they do pretend to like the black men that the white women are with.
Tulio said, “Most of them would never even date a white woman that they found out had been sexually active with black men prior.” I have NO DOUBT that this is also true. The reason, however, might have something to do with the white man not wanting to be “measured” in terms of his “performance” to a black man.
We could go on and on like this infinitely, and prove nothing. Everyone sees the world through their own eyes, their own experiences.
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MajorPrincess2:
ALL women chase successful athletes. Not only white women. It’s not because they’re black, it’s because they have money and status. White women also chase successful white athletes as well in case you haven’t noticed.
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Yeah dunno about that claim Tulio, you should see the Toldson and Marks study on black marriage.
And besides that; 88% of black men who have a personal income of 100,000 a year or more have black wives. I daresay that ALL these black women chosen by these men are “light” complexioned black chicks. Simply because black women come in ALL shades and tones and MOST sexually healthy black men do not have an issue with this.
73.2% of black male professional athletes have black wives. Again, you telling me Tulio that ALL these black women have ONE look???????
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^^^ I didn’t say most successful black men marry non-black. I said most successful black men having a woman lighter than they are(including black women of course). I don’t have any stats on that but I’m just speaking from my personal observation.
I don’t think there’s anything controversial about what I said given that you observe this with many other races of men. When I was in Thailand, the dark Thai men were most interested in Thai women that looked more Chinese. They were nuts about Japanese women. Dark Indian men prefer those lighter Indian women you see in the Bollywood movies. Whether this is due to colonialism or just some biological imperative that associates light skin with higher reproductive value I don’t know. But even amongst white males, they prefer the fairer looking Nordic women.
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^^^ Maybe for some men and maybe in your experience that rings true–but the fact of the matter is this:
MOST people in this world are people of color and a stark majority are brown. Now get this; brown skinned people range in shades and tones form light, to medium, medium deep and deep and beyond. And plenty of brown women in this world are mated up or married to brown men either darker or lighter than them. So how can this be explained if in fact MOST black or brown men prefer “lighter” women???
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@Tulio,
Why are you picking on Vivien’s comments? What she said about white people does not compare to the economic, educational and political holocaust being waged against ALL people of color by the whites in power. Her statements are nothing more than normal reactions from people of color who are being mistreated globally…
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“ALL women chase successful athletes. Not only white women. It’s not because they’re black, it’s because they have money and status. White women also chase successful white athletes as well in case you haven’t noticed.”
And white women chase other black men too, which was my point. You had said, “I think people who claim white women are crazy about chasing black men are delusional for the most part.” I simply used one prominent example, something you could identify with and not dispute. My nephews are not athletes, nor are any of my brothers. But all have, at times, been CHASED by white women. You might not want to see it, but it happens every day.
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Black women come in all colors, from ebony to ivory, to with all types of features. I’m a black author who loves to include black people of all colors in my novels and short stories. Here’s a link to one of my short stories, on Hub Pages, in case anyone is interested http://drmiddlebrook.hubpages.com/hub/Tales-from-the-Quarters. I have a collection of color-coded novels, but have only published the first one, Silver.
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phoebeprunelle said:
I said that men tend to prefer lighter skinned women. A preference isn’t the same thing as a prerequisite. It doesn’t mean that a dark woman is disqualified as there’s much more to attraction and the chemistry that sparks between two people than merely skin shade. Secondly given that there’s roughly the same proportion of dark men and dark women, it’s not numerically possible that all dark men will end up with a light woman. So many will end up with women of their own color regardless. But my point is, when men actually have a choice, they tend to not date/marry women who are darker than themselves. This is almost universally true amongst all races of men, E. Asians, South Asians, Latins, blacks, Arabs, arguably even with whites in the sense that white males generally prefer blondes with blue eyes who tend to have the least melanin. I can think of no other famous black man besides Barack Obama that married a woman that’s darker than he is. I’m sure there are some, but the fact that we have to scratch our heads thinking of examples should tell you something about male preferences.
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^^^ This is the quote I responding to:
Sorry, there’s just no nice way to say it, that’s a completely DUMB statement. What does that even mean to protect our culture from being ripped off?? Do we collectively “own” black culture? That would be like Japanese saying, “we must stop others from practicing Karate because that’s our culture and we’re being ripped off.” The best martial artists in the world are now black and white guys in MMA. Do I hear Asians with their panties in a bind over it because we “ripped off” their martial arts? Where does this stop? We live in a global world. We borrow aspects from other cultures that we like. Blacks do it as well.
I just looked at the latest charts of the top 40 urban artists and almost all of them are black. So I don’t even know what Viveen is even talking about in first place. Because there are blue-eyed soul artists like Adele, doesn’t mean it’s some win-sum game for blacks. That’s just more good music to go around for everyone. Eminem didn’t stop black rap artists from coming up, he just created a market of his own. Get what I’m saying?
Personally I’m flattered when I see people of other races expressing themselves in a soulful style of music. Or seeing non-black hiphop artists. It means black music is being celebrated universally. What’s wrong with that?
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MajorPrincess2 / PowerFigure is banned for using a sock puppet.
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Tulio, for sure there are some essence truths about what you are saying about culture…you dont have to pass through custums and have a passport stamped to learn and express another culture. I like your marcial arts analogy ( Anderson Silva is the champion and he is black Brazilian)…
And, I also understand the points being made about culture being stolen , not recognising the true innovators and the A and R’s in record labels manipulating the situation , with the false rationalisation that its all about the market place and what sells ( they are so wrong about their desicians most of the time). This is valid also and worth noting.
The biggest thing that black Americans can do about that is embrace and celibrate the culture they have innovated….the history of it…the great artists that did go the extra mile to innovate….
People maybe cant control the corporations, but, they can obtain great self esteem and knowledge by looking past popular trends and hype and looking for the truth underneath
The real gratification should be personal knowledge of the truth that is hidden…if you discover that, inside a person can find great inner fortification, and that will bust through the lies and hype more than anything…..after all, its not what others think and lie about, its the truth a person can find out about themselves and the world and how that truth is valid in the world
The beauty of black women is a great case in point. Against the grain of a lot of popular media hype, black women can find the truth about their incredible beauty and culture and gain great strength and self esteem from that…it doesnt have to matter if the corporations never come around and tell the truth…to know it inside is the best thing of all
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Denzel Washington and Samuel Jackson with their lovely brown-skinned wives:
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Also, Malcolm X and Betty Shabazz. So there’s POTUS & FLOTUS, Malcolm & Betty, Denzel & Pauletta, Samuel & LaTonya — all prominent black men with dark-skinned wives. And that’s just off the top of my head.
And if men in general prefer “light” women, how does that explain some of the prominent white men with black wives/lovers: David Bowie, Roger Ebert, George Lucas, Ron Perlman, Robert DeNiro, Chris Noth, Matt Stone (creator of South Park, of all things) Peter Norton (of Norton Antivirus fame), Wolfgang Puck, Robin Thicke, Bill Mahr, Congressman William Cohen, Justin Chambers (Gray’s Anatomy), Mats Carlston (a famous attorney), Rod Spencer (an author married to Alfre Woodard), and the list goes on.
I’m curious about this “men prefer light wives” notion. Where did it come from? And what real proof do you have to substantiate it?
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Why are we still arguing about a non point? If black woman were considered unattractive, the entire planet would not exist. Please stop falling for this.
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Grin and bear it said:
You’re mistaking a general claim for being an absolute claim. I didn’t say all black men end up with light women or that no white men end up with dark women. I even said earlier up in the thread that outside of America, black women often fare better. But in my mind and what I’ve observed, there is no question in my mind about any of this. We’ve discussed the issue of Zoe Soldana playing Nina Simone, but part of that is probably due to skin color. If you put Zoe and Nina(in her prime) side by side, I bet you more brothas would be hollering at Zoe. http://uptownmagazine.com/files/2012/08/nina-simone-zoe-saldana.jpg . I don’t even have any doubt about that.
Why is this farfetched? I don’t think it’s much different than what the results of the doll test revealed.
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Tulio, this is what you said:
And my point is that it’s not a universal truth.
Your statement implies that it’s an inborn phenomenon — that men have a natural proclivity towards “light” women, that it’s just a part of who they are. That, of course, is nonsense, and why I gave examples of some very prominent men — all of them multimillionaires, all of them highly respected amongst their peers, all of them with a degree of influence and power that most other men can only dream about, all of them with access to some very cream of the crop women, and all of them with the ability to choose and GET whomever they want. They all chose women darker than themselves.
Additionally, when many non-black men choose black women, they’re not that interested in or looking at the tint of her skin. I think Abagond had a post about it awhile back. In my experience and from my frame of reference, Abagond’s findings were similar to what I’ve noticed: if they’re into black women, they don’t care if she’s “light” or “dark,” but they do care about the features of her face and the shape of her body. Not so much her skin tone. Many, in fact, don’t even understand the nuances of “light-skin” black vs. “dark-skin” black. They just know they’re dating a “black” woman.
Furthermore, you seem to be basing your assumption on the doll test, which is more about racism and racialized brainwashing, than about men’s “natural” or “universal” preferences. I wonder what preferences would be universal if people had never seen magazines, movies, TV, other pop culture, or even been affected by European colonialism? I also wonder what sort of preferences would exist if a different standard of beauty had been pushed all along.
As for Zoe Saldana playing Nina Simone, by and large, Hollywood doesn’t cast dark-skinned black women unless they need maids, drug addicts or maybe the “black best friend.” This was the case 50 or 60 years ago, and it’s still pretty much the case today. And it’s perpetrated by black filmmakers as well as white ones. With very few exceptions, dark women do not play the lead, and if they do, they are not allowed to be glamorous, they are not allowed to be iconic, they do not have a love life, they do not have inner monologues or aspirations beyond whatever goal they’re pursuing in the movie, which is usually some variant of making the white characters feel better about themselves. The day Hollywood casts a black woman as a lead in a movie where she gets to be smart, sexy, funny, determined, vulnerable, triumphant — real — is the day that hell freezes over.
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We can also add to the list of black guys who are/were married/dating to dark women or darker than them:
Isiah Washington
Doug Christie
Ron Artest
Courtney B. Vance
Tyler Perry
Marcus Samuelson (married Ethiopian born model Maya Gate Haile)
Usher
Anthony Hamilton
Chris Tucker (last i heard he was with India Arie)
Nelly (Ashanti)
Micheal Clarke Duncan (before he passed Omarosa)
Walter Sisulu (married to his dark South African wife for 60 plus years)
Maxwell (Ananda Lewis)
Of course this is not a complete list; but this happens way more often than the media would care to show. Why? Because its only normal and easily goes unnoticed. In other words, its not news. But the Kardashian sisters high profile romances with black men somehow is…
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You’re about right with Huey Newton, Peanut. He was with Elaine Brown all those years. She is by no one’s measures a light black woman.
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It seems like famous black men paired with non-black(usually white) women are the most romantically profiled for some reason. Nobody(white, mainstream entertainment media) gave a d@mn who Kanye was with until he got with Amber Rose and now Kim K. He had a cute black female LTR that hardy got the shine Amber Rose got. Diddy’s longtime partner is a black female of brown to dark completion but his relationship with her isn’t highly profiled. Same with Rick Ross, famous black male rapper w/ dark skin gf/fiancé, nobody is trying to snap them like that.
When Reggie Bush and Kim K split he pretty much fell off when it came to having his picture snapped. When Kim was rumored to be with her sexy, white bodyguard it didn’t seem as profiled and the headline fizzed pretty quickly.
I’m not going to discount Tulio’s theory because there does seem to be a significant amount of men that prefer lighter women than themselves. Notice I said significant, I don’t know if its most/more than half but its a sizeable chunk. However, I think we néed to be careful using media examples because I feel they cherry pick certain race/color-gender combo couples and promote them over others. I wouldn’t go as far as saying they have an ‘agenda'(although the case can certainly be made) but the MSM does like to play into America’s fascination, in some cases fear, of white/light women with darker, non-white males.
For what it’s work I read a poll in Jet magazine a ways back asking if black men prefer light(er) skin women. About 30% had a light skin preference while the rest either had no preference or preferred dark skin.
I am a woman who is darker and I have never heard a man, regardless of race comment about me or any other woman being ‘too dark’ to be pretty. Never heard ‘you are pretty to be black/dark’ either.
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It is interesting that the romantic pairings of famous black women often don’t rate coverage — even when both people are famous. With the exception of Barack & Michelle, Bey & Jay, and Will & Jada, the media largely ignores the love stories of black women.
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I dont know, I actualy beleive that a lot black American men think like I do and are awed and amazed at the range of colors and beauty of the black woman to be able to choose from. I feel so lucky and greatful to have had relationships with black women of all shades and colors, from the darkest of black to very light
Where I grew up, a lot of my black American colleagues didnt really go into deep indication of preferance .This was before “black is beautiful “came out, and when that happened, all of a sudden there was lots of natural hair and pride in skin color….funny how things slip and slide around, so that skin tone is an issue again…of course, the point of view of my black American colleagues might have been regional and in another place, colorism might have been much greater
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beautiful black women are plentiful, I grew up in London around many extremely attractive Caribbean and African black women, they are considered attractive by men of all races. the ideas in this article seem hung over from old fashion racism, statements like black women are unattractive is akin to all black people look the same.
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Another point of view:
African/Black women are beautiful!
ALL shapes, sizes, shades, heights, ethnicities …
I’ve never seen an UGLY (smiling and happy) black female. Let me say this again – there is no one more awesome, dazzling, inspiring, uplighting, encouraging than a smiling/laughing/happy/positive/smart/loving sistah!
Physical attraction is often what kick-starts a *physical* relationship, but it’s far from what SUSTAINS a real, meaningful long-term relationship.
Let’s remember that ALL truly beautiful/desirable women will have attractive INNER qualities.
Remember this song? Beauty’s Only Skin Deep? It says what I’m trying to articulate.
So in love, sad as could be
‘Cause a pretty face got the best of me.
Suddenly, you came into my life
And gave it meaning and pure delight.
Now, good looks, I’ve learned to do without.
‘Cause now I know it’s love that really counts.
‘Cause I know that…
(Beauty’s only skin deep, yeah, yeah, yeah.)
I know that…
Beauty’s only skin deep, yes indeed.
Now you speak your words warm and sincere.
And let’s me know that your love is near.
A pretty face you may not possess
But what I like about you is your tenderness.
A pretty face maybe some guys taste
But I’ll take lovin’ in it’s place.
My friends ask, what do I see in you
But it goes deeper than the eye can view.
You have a pleasin’ personality
And that’s an ever lovin’ rare quality.
Now show me a girl, a girl that’s fine
And I’ll choose the one with true lovin’ every time.
So if you’re lookin’ for a lover.
Don’t judge a book by it’s cover.
She may be fine on the outside.
But so untrue (ugly) on the inside.
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@Matari,
But you don’t even have to go that far in saying something as cliche’ as “beauty is only skin deep”…mainly because black women have never had a problem attracting successful black men. When i say successful (meaning black men who are respected among his colleagues, etc…much like what Grin and Bear it was saying.)
And if black men deep down thought black women were in fact “ugly” they are having a hard time showing it as 88% of ALL married black men are married to black women. Of wealthy black men (100,000 or more a year), 83% have black chicks as wives….
The reality is that black men and women have IR marriage options–therefore it is plausible to come to the conclusion that black people can marry who they want–yet somehow we are overwhelmingly choosing each other as romantic partners…
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Peanut said:
That would make for an interesting experiment. Bria is definitely hot. She also has just the body type that is highly sought after by many black men.
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Y said:
You may indeed have a point there. Nobody knew(or cared) who Seal was dating before Heidi Klum. I looked him up on whodatedwho.com and found out he had dated Tyra Banks, but nobody talked about that much. You also hear a lot about Jay-Z and Beyonce, but I wonder if we would if she was dark? Denzel is may be the most important black actor of our time but his wife is basically invisible to the media. Yet everyone knows all about the significant others of Sandra Bullock, Tom Cruise and Brad Pitt. Though It could be that maybe Denzel takes greater efforts to keep his personal life private.
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The racism in this is obnoxious. You should have just stated why you believe black women are pretty. Instead you only focused on what YOU thought only WHITE people felt about them (generalizing an ENTIRE race but expecting respect?), and not stopping to think that the beauty issue goes for every person, every race, everywhere.
Everybody is beautiful. But nobody will ever see it until we stop dividing ourselves.
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@abagond
Mira said:
“So are you trying to say Obama didn’t have a choice? If you look “clearly” black, white or Asian, you can’t choose?”
I know where you are coming from (I know about the “rules” involved), but can you consider looking at it from another perspective? I do think the society is evolving on this issue.
I read Dreams from my Father also, and I think that Obama, did in fact, choose.
And are you implying that you can choose only if
– you look ethnically ambiguous; or
– you can pass as some version of white (which may be different from what you actually are)
and you, indeed MUST choose a single label?
But even these (what you can pass as) are a matter of opinion which vary from person to person. Moreover, it is not a straightforward thing to simply be something what people think you can pass as.
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I don’t understand why black women are seen as less attractive, the media likes to push the idea that white is more beautiful but honestly I think you get just many average or unattractive white people just as in any race. Some white women like to emulate the looks of black women but wouldn’t actually want to be black because they would then have less privilege in society. full lips, curvy figure and brown skin is coveted by many white women.
I think that the average white british or american person is not very attractive on average, the best looking white people are scandinavian or italian/spanish. But to me the most beautiful people come from Cape Verde, Brazil, Trinidad & Tobago, so my beauty ideal is more ‘brown centric’.
I’m mixed black and white but see myself more as black because I can relate to the looks of black women like en vogue more than I can to white women who look like britney or paris hilton.
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It has nothing to do with racism.
Men like feminine women, black American women are extremely masculine, they are loud, aggressive & confrontational, they act like men. To put it into perspective, it’s like asking a heterosexual women why she isn’t interested in an overtly feminine man – women don’t like feminine men because they seem like females. Black women in the US come across as more manly than female, go somewhere else outside the US for black women, go to a place where American culture isn’t prominent, in the African continent the black women are completely different, they’re feminine, they act like women & are much more attractive because of it.
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So many of you are so quick to jump on the whole they don’t look feminine thing… I say poppycock they look very feminine. They look amazing naked. They turn all heads from white to Hispanic to black. They have curves that make you want to slap someone. They are athletic which can make them better at uh mm certain things. You act as if having stronger bodies and more muscle is a bad thing it means they are in shape. I am sorry the black woman’s body, skin color, style, shape, smell, etc… wins out in this W/H man’s mind any day period nuff said.
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I am a young Black woman of Jamaican descent and some of the replies about Black women being masculine is totally not true. Black women are the original race of women so I believe Black women are the original women. All this Western standard of beauty crap keeps on brainwashing people into thinking White women are the best looking women on the planet and the most desirable. That is not true. There are many beautiful Black women out there as well as beautiful White women, Latinas and Asian women.There is ugly and beautiful in all races but I have a rather different standard of beauty than the media’s narrow minded view of beauty.
@Jennifer,
Girl, you took all of my words! You nailed it!
My standard of beauty is brown centric too.
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The repulsion I have for Black females is both physical and psychological. I’ll begin with the physical aspects. I don’t like the separation of pigment on the hands and feet. They have strangely long and thin fingers. Their palms also have incongrous pigmentation within the grooves and lines. Their feet are especially unattractive where the skin is ashy. The feet are also flat and the heels protrude. They also have potato chip toenails. The second toe is almost always longer than the big toe. I find that very unattractive.As far as their physiognamy, they really don’t have hair. It isn’t anything like Asian, Caucasian or Amerindian hair who can grow their hair long and beautiful. Negro hair is fuzzy and nappy and feels like a Brillo pad. This is why the Black females spend at great costs to get their hair relaxed, straightened or weaved. Whatever it is, they hate their own hair and try to emulate the hair of other races. Their facial features are conditioned as Prognathous, whereas they approximate the Simian form. Their jaws protrude which gives the lower region of their face a muzzle formation. Their occipital orbits are large and round which gives them that bug-eyed manic look. As far as their lips are concerned, there is a stark difference between a Caucasian woman with full lips and a Black female with large lips. The Black has lips that protrude outward like a fish. A White woman may have large lip tissue, but they don’t protrude as much. Blacks usually have the receded chin which also accentuates the protruding lips. Their nostrils are broader than the average female, sometimes half the width of their faces. Their ears are also small and are placed higher on the head. Their torsos are also more circular in the trunk compared to other races. While they have larger pelvic bones, their hips are longer and more narrow. With their usual bulbous haunches this looks odd with a narrow pelvis. Their forearms are much longer than their braccium which also approximates the Simian form. They also tend to have large thighs with unusually thin calves. This again lacks uniformity and aesthetic female proportions.
The shape of their heads also vary. Sometimes they have melon shaped heads. Also the top of the heads are pointed known as the Sagittal keel. This feature is only evident in the Black races. Their craniums are narrow as if they were squeezed from out of a tube.Their eyes can have that jaundiced look. sometimes the pink lining inside their lips can be seen while their mouths are just relaxed.
Personalities can vary among Black females. While some are friendly and open, some are aggressive and uncouth. They tend to be very loud and can shreik without any warning or particular reason. Their speech and elocution is also poor which can repel the average man. Combine the attributes of both physical and mental and you may have a ghastly combination. Just saying how it is, don’t get all mad. Keepin’ it real and scientific.
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Haha!!! Do you think anyone is really going to read a looong ass crazy manifesto like that from a guy who calls himself “Garlin?”
Hahahahahahaha!!! Feel the depth of my ridicule!
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Lol @ Garlin
you remind me of that guy on true life im giving my boyfriend an ultimatum. That guy was talking about his girlfriends toe because her toe was longer than her big toe. So Garlin do you like black men or do you dislike both black men and women.
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@king I read half of it and it’s all garbage(from Garlin). If you are truly a straight man you can’t tell me you never looked at a black woman and said “Damn”. I usually say “Holy Sh$*” I’m a happily married man to a white woman… but come on this guy is blind.
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Im going to break my “listening mode” to answer this crud.
First, the seperation of pigment in the hands and feet in the black women is like God’s fine marble scupture in living skin..exquisite
Black woman’s feet ugly? You have to be kidding, dont let this punk fool anybody here, black women’s feet are gorgeous, Im not a foot fetish, but, my wifes feet are petit , adorable, well preportioned , and beautiful
Hair? The wonderful curly hair of the black woman is meant to compliment all the features in her face in symetry that is just stunning. The texture of black women’s hair is incredibly special and the world would be at a serious loss if black women’s hair didnt exist.The incredible bouncyness and buoyancy of the black woman’s hair is extremly atractive, the hair almost makes a sound when the woman moves, like some kind of jewelry
Nostrils? This chump has to be in serious denial, the black womans nose is just absolutly the most atractive of all,and the sensual lips of the black woman are nothing short of luscious
“Bulbous Huanches”? I mean cmon, the black womans booty pretty much smokes the competition anywhere…this guy is sick
You know that pick lining inside the lips is a big turn on
This guy is an unbeleivable chump…
Back to “listening mode”
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spelling damage control: “marble sculpture” “pink lining”
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@ Garlin:
For someone who disdains a group of people, you sure pay a lot of attention to them! Get a life you sos.
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The simplest answer as to “why black women are seen as ugly” is that in all reality they are not seen as ugly. The political agenda of white supremacy uses images to distort the reality and the reality is that Black women–throughout history– have been admired by ALL people. White people do not “hate” Black women–they fear us overpowering them genetically through femininity…hence enslavement,colonizations and the other horrors that have happened to Black people.
Black women are the progenitors of womanhood. Black men are the fathers of mathematics, science and human philosophy. White people “genetically” are our kids. So… are we going to continue to let the children run the world and lead like we are supposed to?
I will let the video speak for itself:
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I knew a few of the posters would get all butthurt over my analysis. But isn’t what this whole topic is all about? What more do you want? In order to achieve an accurate summary from all people you need to look at the complexity of the issue. What I stated was based solely on empirical observation. If the truth hurts, so be it.
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TO: B.R.
Yes, the feet of Black females I find unattractive. Sizes can vary but they usually have longer feet than the races of other women. But it’s not just the size that makes them ugly, it’s the shape. They don’t have any arches and their feet are flat as a pancake. While Caucasian, Amerindian and Asian women have a pronounced instep, Blacks have flat feet. Their feet are also narrow in relation to their length.
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@Garlin–you are as gay as the day is long..most black people haven’t taken the time to dissect our physical attributes, and yet…you have…you sound like that character in Shallow Hal…toe measurements? What, did some sistah pull out the ruler and measure your endowments and you came up lacking?..Anyway, black women are the origianal vessel thru which the species and the planet has been populated. What could be more beautiful than that?
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Oh no!!! Please tell me that people aren’t actually reading it!!??
Dave, how did you get to the halfway point? After the first two sentences I said out loud to myself, “What am I doing? His name is even Garlin!”
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I just can’t believe it Legion.. I mean, he’s obviously deranges, and he obviously has a weird FOOT FETISH to boot! He talks like he’s never even seen a real Black woman up close. Geez, what’s to discuss?
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Empirical observation is not truth. It sounds like you wish it to be “true” that Blackwomen are objectively ugly to ALL people. However in dealing with historical and even modern day truths, your empirical observation is based on what you “wish” to be true about Blackwomen.
I wish a lot of things were “true”, but wishing it into existence is virtually impossible–therefore, i accept what is tangible and can be backed up with scientific fact. And Blackwomen being “objectively” more unattractive is not a scientific fact.
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This ones for you ‘Garlin’, it describes you to a tee:
Folks, ‘Garlin’ and his ilk are not here to ‘debate’ but to insult and illustrate their contempt for black folks. Whilst funny, they can and do serve as educational, as they write things on a blog that they would never say to a black person in the real world. It is nice to know what they are actually thinking as well as hilarious.
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LOL @ Legion seriously. I bet he has “phrenology” and “drapetomania” books on “Negroids”! Oh this is rich! He comes here with his pseudoscience and expects us to get riled up over THIS?
***DYING over here imagining this fool with a caliper and a jewelers loupe on his hands and knees over a Black womans foot!!!!!*************** OMG I cant breathe!!! LMAO!!
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The reactions to my post would be hilarious if they weren’t so sad and demented. Let’s first establish that “Beauty is in the eye of the beholder”. The old hackneyed adage rings true through the ages as it is a subject that is entirely subjective in the human mind. I succinctly described the Black female anatomy in scientific detail which was very cordial and generous on my part. So if we can accept that beauty is subjective your proclamation of Blacks females being attractive is just as absurd as my assessment of them being unattractive. We can talk in circles all day, but we have to compromise in order to extend this topic to possessing any rational substance.
As for this (Hernieth) who sent me this gruesome blog? Anyone who takes the time to pull these bizarre and grotesque blogs must have some serious mental issues. No,my penis is not small, but rather fairly large. Perhaps, this was a baiting ploy to get you to see it? I wouldn’t be surprised if that was your intention.
I would also like to note that Black males are constantly scouring the dating websites vying for the attention of White females. I have a very pretty friend who is a mixture of Amerindian and European. She is barraged by Black males sending her messages and begging to go out with her. What does this tell you?
I also read that if a Black female is ever hired to work at an exotic strip club, they never last more than 2 weeks. apparently, they lack the attention from male patrons and cannot earn any tips. I don’t go to strip clubs, but that is what I read.
As for having a foot fetish. I love pretty feet. My wife has the prettiest feet. She’s got all the women beat.
My new motto:
Ugly feet and ugly toes are an offense to my eyes and nose.
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@Garlin
I can also create a long list of unattractive stereotypes of white women:
1. uneven skin tone — freckly, bloody red patches, veins visible beneath the skin, pasty and unattractive skin coloration in most areas (leading them to risk their health by “tanning”), but generally uneven and disgusting to look at; liver spots increase with age, skin sags at a much younger age than women of other races (leading them to get facelifts at much higher rate than similarly situated black women)
2. Face – completely covered by very light, thin hair to protect them against the sun, much hairier on average than other women; masculine chins (butt chins, large and protruding chins, etc.); wrinkles present at early age
3. Hair Texture – same as that of a horse or dog (designed to protect the head from the bitter cold ice-age weather), and full of lice (much more than the average black woman, statistically speaking)
4. Feet – usually a stub on the back of the heel or oddly flattened heel; dry, flat and crusty soles that are specifically prone to cracking, toes bloody red, inconsistent with pale skin tone on top of foot
5. Lips – thin (not good for kissing like the black woman’s; leading women with money to get collagen injections at a much higher rate than others); dry, discolored
6. Buttocks – flat (as if an extended portion of the lower back), not curvy and sexy like the black woman’s
7. Calves – tend to be more muscular, like their male counterparts, disgusting blue, red and green vericose veins
8. Nails – oddly shaped, brittle, yellowish
9. Breasts – smaller on average than black women; more likely to be unable to lactate (which is why they used their black slaves to breastfeed their children in early America); more prone to breast cancer than black women
Just a few of my empirical observations…
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For the life of me I can not understand comments like Garlin’s. If someone or some group of people are so repulsive to you, you sure are WASTING plenty of time writing a long manifesto on what makes them unattractive. Not to mention coming back to the comments for an encore. The people I find unattractive I just don’t interact with or discuss in romantic contexts. I don’t even know all the reasons why they are unattractive to me and I don’t care to dissect them. All I know is their physical appearance is unappealing to me and that the beginning and the end of it all. Doesn’t make them bad people, they are just not for me.
On the other hand I DO discuss and go through the reasons why I am attracted to certain physical/mental traits, it give me a clear picture of what I like and should look for in a mate. I just don’t understand people who do the exact opposite and feel the need to profile their findings on a blog frequented by the “uglies”. Just seems like strange…and pathetic.
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I feel that Black women are seen as quite attractive these days, especially with Beyonce, Rhianna, Nicki Minaj, and other artists, shaking everything their mother gave them in the music videos. Mainly thanks to their world wide influence, you now see more men of all races/ethnicities starting to think that bigger torsos, wider hips, larger butts and curves are way more attractive and far more marketable than in the 80s and 90s. We now have white women running to their surgeons to get butt implants to achieve a more curvy body look, similar to a black woman.
But the problem for me, isn’t whether we are seen as “attractive” by men of other minorities or not, the thing I am eventually wishing for is that we will be seen as PEOPLE with worth. Our “beautiful” qualities seem only to be sex appeal. Many white men think that black women are “attractive” enough for a “roll in the hay” with, or for “a good time,” but nothing more. There have been several times I’ve been approached by older white businessmen who were gushing about how “beautiful” they thought I was, how they loved my lips and shape, and were far too eager to buy me drinks and to invite me back to their hotels that night. (However, I was not fooled. I noticed all too well the rings on their finger, or the family pictures on the screens of their phone when they received calls and texts, of course their wives were white women.) Just like in slavery, the masters thought the slave women were “attractive” enough to sleep with but to make them the mistress of the house? It would NEVER happen, and there were even laws against it.
Things haven’t changed that much today. Black women shouldn’t have much trouble finding other ethnicity men to be their short term boyfriends or for maybe long-term trysts, but would these men be willing to propose marriage or to bring her home to mom, and make her his legal wife? Probably not. They will pretty much end up marrying a white woman so they don’t have to risk their family’s wrath or negative backlash because they are “marrying down”.
I was very shocked but pleased that Oliver Martinez actually proposed to Halle Berry. But Halle Berry is like the queen of gorgeous women of any ethnicity, so I’m not too surprised. However Oliver is gorgeous and rich himself and would have no problem getting any white woman he wants but he chose Halle. It is interesting to note, however, how Halle’s past boyfriend, Gabriel Aubrey, would not marry her but had no problem producing a baby. Even more interesting is, according to TMZ and other sources, he goes “nuts” when people refer to his daugher, Nahla, as black. So you can see this trend happening even with rich and sucessful black women are with white men. Often we may be seen as “attractive” but we still are not really seen as people.
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LOL @ resw77!!
He’s lingering to see how he pissed of the “uglies” and is peeved because we are not angry. 🙂 This is too funny and pathetic to even get angry at. He’s putting all this effort into this for what reason? Let him loiter and get clowned because he’s really not worth much more effort than that.
***still chuckling at the thought of him with a caliper over a Black woman’s big toe!***
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DEAD @ resw77!! 😛 I’m sorry but that’s too funny! I guess what’s good for the goose isn’t good for the gander. I wonder if he’s put so much thought into why so many of his women age in dog years….
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I can see my input has been well recieved and appreciated. i enjoy the entertinment. But this subject has exhausted my attention span and I shll depart.
As far as being prone to diseases? Let’s not forget the Sickle cell, AIDS and Herpes rates among the Black community.
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How about we not forget the Tay-Sachs, cystic fibrosis, Crohn’s disease, skin cancer and infertility among the White community. 🙂
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Don’t let the screen door hitcha where the good Lord splitcha. You’ll be back though? We all know it. Even if you don’t say anything in response (which you probably will because you seem thirsty), you’ll come back and sift through the comments. And don’t forget to take your inch-of-negro-toe measuring caliper with you! LMAO!!!!! 😛
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Wait!!… Garlin…. WAIT!
And I was just beginning to like him…
Oh well, there are plenty of other feet on the internet I suppose. We can’t expect him to spend the rest of his life contemplating the crevices and arches of Black women’s feet can we.
What a weirdo.
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““Bulbous Huanches”? I mean cmon, the black womans booty pretty much smokes the competition anywhere…this guy is sick”
*********
LMAO : )))
I gotta agree with you B.R. – on all counts!!!!
And for once I’m even finding myself agreeing with dave.. [looking out the window to see if an asteroid is coming at me! lol]
Any (hetro) man that doesn’t LOVE BLACK WOMEN’s typical shapely and Bulbous Haunches is ill!! Something has gone terribly awry with his genetic/male makeup.
hey Garlin – thanks for the needed comic relief!
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As a Black male I’ll just say this;…when God made Black women,…He was just showing off.
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@darqbeauty
Just giving that fool, Garlin a taste of his own medicine (I’m not really as ignorant as he)…
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Goodbye Dr. Zachary Smith of Lost in Space fame…I bet you sound just like him too..
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I Forgot to retort to a couple of scientifically ignorant posts in response to my original assessment. It is measurable that Black females are the least attractive compared to other races. It is so obvious it’s laughable. Blacks are trying to alter their potato shaped noses, lips and kinky fuzz that grows from out of their heads. As far as butt implants? I think there is a tiny % of White and Asian females who partake in that idiocy and it’s such a negligible amount that it’s stupid to even mention. As far as Whites sunbathing to get tans. First off, A White person with tan skin looks nothing like the skin tone of any Black female. The White tan is more like a bronze or amber color. It is not fecal color at all. So stop trying to flatter yourselves.
I was quite kind in my analogy. I didn’t mention that Black females emit a very disagreeable body odor. I also didn’t mention the Black specific maladies such as scabies. But since I am ostensibly superior in looks and intellect to everyone here I will respond to another issue.
Someone mentioned that Black females are the progenitors of all women. This is a misconception that scientists have found false through biological and DNA research. Whites, Asians and Amerindians all have 4% neanderthal DNA, whereas the Blacks have 0%. This concludes that we are so genetically removed that I am more related to a neanderthal that lived 180,000 years ago than a modern day Black. Blacks want to be related to other races and wish that were so, but it happens to be faulty. This is why scientists who specialize in Biological Evolutionary theory regard Blacks as a different species or even generra.
You can believe or try to kid yourselves that you are dee most bootiful en sheeit! That’s okay. I don’t care. But at least I bck my claims with data, science and observation. I don’t resort to ad hominem barbs that are a reflection of the inferiority complexes you have revealed. Get over it! i gave you my opinion.
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He’s back! He hates Black women so much…yet he keeps coming back. After telling us that his “attention span was exhausted”. Well, not only is he crazy as cat sh*t but his word isn’t worth spit either. Oh Black women…we must weep and wail and gnash our teeth over the fact that this fine specimen of a male doesn’t want us! Observe all that we and our future generations will be bereft of.
😥
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@ Garlin
You want to know what is funny. I am black and nothing in your analysis describes me. My whole life I had hair that reaches my butt. Beautiful soft curly hair. I have size 8 feet but most black females I know have smaller feet than me and hey my feet are not flat.
Now I will say that for someone who does not like black females you sure did take the time to make a long winded post in regards to them and in detail. I see a love hate obsession here. Maybe rejected by a black female or something.
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Bwahahha!
If you are Black then that hair isn’t natural. Get serious! Is it an extension? A weave? Did you use some processing chemical to get it relaxed. These are rhetorical questions. I have never seen a Black who had an arch in their foot.
In regards to getting rejected, it has never happened with a black. I actually had to reject a few advances from Black females hitting on me. i’m never rude. I just joke around and make light of the subject and move on. I could cite examples, but whatever.
I am having so much fun shutting you down. It’s amusing. If i weren’t so devious I would let it go.
I be keepin’ it real. It’s all good, nomesayin’?
One word for y’all – EPIC FAIL!
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@ Garlin
Since your claims are backed by scientific data then where are the links? See I am not one on taking peoples words for it…Secondly blacks come in different skin tones. Hate to break it to you but stupidity kills. Now correct my if I am wrong but the shapes of tv models are not real ideas of actual white women. White women today are very shapely, whether it be cosmetic or real. This is not very few as you claim (maybe in your mind anyway).
I am sure you want to convince yourself you are superior based on nothing more than you skin color but it is that lax thinking that has lead to many races to surpass you and you not even realize it.
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That’s two words
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@ Garlin
Actually no. I never had a weave in my life or extensions like most white women do these days. I love it curly so I stay ways from relaxers and such. I did just get my hair cut though and the beautician did not want to because she thought it was so beautiful. It will grow back in a couple of months so to me it is not big deal.
Have you seen all black women’s feet? Black women are so diverse that it is not even funny, but live on the stereotypes and ignorance if you choose.
If only you were actually shutting me down though. Jumping the gun I see. Losers always do.
I have a college educations so I will greatly appreciate it if you spoke English. I am not skilled in the art of Ebonics.
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correction stay away…it is not a big deal
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@ Y.
I gather that he may be a bit slow from some of his posts.
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@Garlin
White women in America hate themselves than black women, and here are some facts to support this claim:
1. 1 in 3 white women use tanning beds, almost half in the midwest (and yes, there are millions of light brown or tan black women), according to CDC statistics, and a majority of them tan outdoors to mask their pale, uneven skin tone. As a result of trying to change their skin, they contract skin cancer at a much higher rate than anyone else on earth.
2. White women pump their lips with collagen at a much higher rate than others. When a white lady gets some money, she goes for the full sexy lips that many black women have naturally.
3. Butt injections are on the rise, especially cheap, illegal ones, and as you know, the rate among white women is much higher.
4. In general, white women undergo plastic surgery more often than others, and represent an disproportionately high share of plastic surgery patients.
5. Surveys show that even overweight black women like their bodies more than white women.
6. As you know, white women are much more likely to have eating disorders (for explanation, refer to #5)
7. White women are less likely to have self-confidence than black women, according to surveys.
8. Surveys show that black women are 3 times more likely to rate themselves as attractive than white women.
9. White women are more likely to be childless, according to the US Census. And who could blame them? When you hate yourself, you don’t want to produce people
who look like you.
10. Last, but not least, white women commit suicide at 6 times the rate of black women in America
P.S. Geneticists say you share 1% to 4% of your genes with subhuman
Neanderthals, but you share 99% of your genes with Africans. That doesn’t make you closer to those subhumans, genius.
I hate to break it to you, but your ancestors came from Africa too and migrated to Europe before the ice age, and that’s just
the accepted theory in western academia, not just my own opinion.
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@Sharina
Why do you lie? It is impossible that you can be of the Negro race with naturally straight hair. Intellectual conversation requires honesty and knowledge which you lack. Give it up already. You know you’re sad.
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LOL @ Y
He said he was going away..but came back.
He hates black women…but writes lengthy posts on them and comes back obsessively to check the responses.
He has a creepy foot fetish where he watches the feet of Black women…yet if he truly hated them, he wouldn’t pay such minute attention.
Is it any surprise he can’t tell the difference between the numbers “1” and “2”? This is TOO good!
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for resw77,
Where did you find the drivel? In an Afrocentrist handbook. This is garbage and highly fallatious. Plastic surgery has been practiced by all races, even Halle Barry who happens to be only half-Black.
In regards to DNA, you are nothing like me and you are in no way related to me or anything like the other races. I’m assuming you are Black. I am proud of my neanderthal and Cro-Magnon lineage. They were an intelligent people. They were just not as refined as modern Homo-Sapiens.
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Sharina;
Before i go, learn to spell, develop a cogent argument and use proper syntax.
So sad. Boo Hooo.
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@ Garlin
Where did I say my hair was naturally straight? I said my hair was naturally curly.
“Before i go, learn to spell, develop a cogent argument and use proper syntax.”–Considering you understood it then it must be good enough. So you lose an argument and then run away. Not that I can say it was much of an argument though. You lose before you began.
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excuse me …You lost before you began. LOL
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Oh good! Garin you’ve returned! Imagine how we missed you for the half hour that you were gone. Now we can be friends.
Say there friend… you spelled “fallatious” wrong. It’s spelled “fallacious.” The way you can remember this is that the word is based on the root word “fallacy” (like most of your posts) The way you spelled it the root word would be “fallatio.”
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I think he might have even meant to spell it “phallusy”! lol This guy is just TOO entertaining and easy.
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@Garlin
I gave some sources, e.g., CDC, US Census Bureau….as to the polls, Washington Post, USAToday, etc…do some research for yourself, instead of mouthing off about stuff you don’t know.
LOL, Neanderthals were so intelligent that they died off. BTW, more recent studies (like the one conducted by the Univ. of Cambridge) suggest that you don’t actually have direct subhuman ancestry at all (so sorry!), but that the subhumans and Humans merely have common ancestry (which explains why SOME non-Africans share a tiny portion of their genes with these subhumans).
“In regards to DNA, you are nothing like me and you are in no way related to me or anything like the other races. I’m assuming you are Black. I am proud of my neanderthal and Cro-Magnon lineage. ”
Trust me, I wish I weren’t related to such scum, but unlike you, I tend to trust scientific evidence. And it’s rather clear why you hate black women so much. You’re in denial of your ancient African ancestry. Deny all you will, but the sooner you come to grips with reality, the better off psychologically you will be…
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Notice the typo – Fallatious, HeeHee. You don’t miss much do ya??
If Black females are so attractive and you claim that they are more attractive than White women why is it that every year in the USA, 35,000 – 40,000 White women are raped by a Black male, while 0-10 Black females are raped by a person of another race? In order to rape you need to be sexually stimulated and attracted to that person. These numbers do not work in favor of your argument.
Also, why is it that every time a Black male celebrity earns a huge profit he tries to marry or date a White woman?
In regards to hair, do you ever see an Asian, Caucasian or Amerindian trying to change their hair into a kinky afro? Do you ever hear about the other races going to the cosmetic surgeoun and requesting a wide potato nose?
Give it up.
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@ Garlin
Wrong. Rapist rape for a variety of reasons. Some to get their jollies off, some as a form of punishment to women, some do it for power and control etc. Do research.
“Also, why is it that every time a Black male celebrity earns a huge profit he tries to marry or date a White woman?”–Two words…Denzel Washington.
“In regards to hair, do you ever see an Asian, Caucasian or Amerindian trying to change their hair into a kinky afro?”—Actually yes, but the new thing is dreads, so I have not seen the kinky afro in a while now.
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Which explains why they went extinct, making way for the rise of modern humans…the most expansive primate species Earth has seen.
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Sharina:
get their jollies off? That means sexual stimulation, which thus proves they desire the flesh of other women from other races. Touche!!!
Denzel Washington? Is that all you can come up with??? Bwahahaha!
I’d like to add Kanye West, P. Doody or whatever, Lamar Odom, Eddie Murphy and a few dozen others.
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Yeah, white men never raped black women…yet somehow there are millions of mulattos all around the world…b/c by their own admission, white men have raped black women for centuries.
And that was kind of you to go through the trouble of pulling that rape statistic out of your ass, but for real stats, I’ll simply refer you to Abagond’s post on black rape statistics.
Yes, white women for centuries permed their hair with curls (or wore “big wigs”) and while afros were in-style in the US, white women resorted to “big hair”. Now the latest trend involves white women sadly attempting to dread their hair (LOL). I know you love straight hair, but really it’s no different than animal hair, which is why horse hair makes an excellent substitute for the real thing.
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Black women..ugly?? Please! Black women are the most beautiful women on the planet. Beautiful hair,glowing melaninated skin and amazing bodies! Without them life would be meaningless. Discussion is over!lol
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I’d rather have a horse’s mane on my head than a nappy fro.
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Oh you don’t care about hair, you’re into FEET!
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@Garlin
Good, however, we don’t care about you.
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If woolly hair and skin the color of burnished bronze were good enough for Jesus..it’s more than good enough for me. 🙂 Keep trying to make us feel bad about ourselves. You may be that millionth monkey in a room full of type writers and hit on something truly inspiring and novel.
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@ Garlin
“That means sexual stimulation, which thus proves they desire the flesh of other women from other races” Again No. A person can have sex with someone and not be sexually attracted to them. Getting ones jollies off equates to busting a nut. You can bust a nut with anything. Some bust a nut with horses, sheep, etc. That does not mean they are attracted to them, but they have found a hole that is warm and they can stick their penis it.
Kanye West just started dating a white woman. He did not get rich and date one. Same goes for P. diddy who dates white and black women. The mother of his children is black. Lamar Odom who is rumored to be getting a divorce from the said white woman. Eddie murphy is another who dates mixed woman mainly but has recently dated a white woman. Now the woman Eddie is with is rumored to chase rich black men.
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LOL, thank you for this entertainment. Too funny, Garlin. We are beautiful, phenomenal women-Maya Angelou already wrote the memo on that one. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ZM_cPlgFq4&feature=youtube_gdata_player
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@Sharina
“Some bust a nut with horses, sheep, etc.”
Not some, but Garlin and his European brethren who frequent the growing number of barnyard brothels in Europe….it’s a cultural thing.
Garlin, wouldn’t you rather get off with a horse than with a black woman?
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Can you imagine how long you have to stare at somebody’s feet before you come up with that analysis? He has an entire collection of internet pictures that he peruses on a nightly basis… with his various assortments of oils and lubricating gels in hand.
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@ Lifelearner
Thank you for sharing that. Black women are beautiful and we need not forget that. I try my best to stay away from anything that seeks to tell the black female she is not beautiful. WOC have been told they are not for years to keep up the idea that white women are the ultimate beauties. They are not and we need to feel they are.
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@ resw77
LMAO!!! Well he said he would rather have horses hair on his head.
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@ King
LOL.
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@ Sharina
The “ugly Black woman” stereotype is a dying idea, in my estimation. When debating with non-intellects like Garin the Cro-Magnon here, you’re just dealing with the dying embers in the creaking wreck of the old guard American Apartheid System. I mean look at him, he can’t even spell.
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He is more deserving of out pity than our wrath.
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I Forgot to retort to a couple of scientifically ignorant posts in response to my original assessment.
I thought you were finished. Not only are you a liar, you are also filled with rancid fecal matter.
I didn’t mention that Black females emit a very disagreeable body odor. I also didn’t mention the Black specific maladies such as scabies. But since I am ostensibly superior in looks and intellect to everyone here I will respond to another issue.
Why thank you for your kind consideration dear. Please enlighten us with your superior intellect.
his concludes that we are so genetically removed that I am more related to a neanderthal that lived 180,000 years ago than a modern day Black
http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQOEroIhm41iNfrCmLLdrYrjrFYsstte-Jxsb7jJqm1il1X1w-f
Yes quite a potato shaped nose on that one I’d say.
I don’t resort to ad hominem barbs that are a reflection of the inferiority complexes you have revealed.
Your whole post is an ad hominess attack! Besides, ad hominess can be hilarious and fun when employed strategically. You don’t debate fools you mock them. Sir, you give Alfred E Neumann a run for his money.
He’s back! He hates Black women so much…yet he keeps coming back.
He’s like that Timex watch slogan; ‘Takes a licking and keeps on ticking’.
You don’t miss much do ya??
Nope, hence the mockery sent your way by the folks responding to your posts. You have managed to use quite a few stock and phrase racist arguments used by the garden variety racist. There is nothing new under the sun, and that goes tenfold for you. Come up with better jokes and insults!
Garlin, wouldn’t you rather get off with a horse than with a black woman?
You forgot to throw his female relatives in that mix!
Garfield here’s a picture of beautiful white feet to tittilate you:
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Would i rather get off on a horse?? Well, a horse is a beautiful animal and I have ridden them many times. Oh wait, did you mean fornicate? Only a Black would contemplate such an act. There was an incident two years ago where a Black guy broke into a barn and raped two horses. Another Black guy raped a group of pigs in a farm. You can look it up. They were both indicted for violating Animal Husbandry laws or something like that. I feel sorry for the horses and pigs. What a disgusting way to be violated. I mean if Blacks are so attracted to horses, pigs and dogs wouldn’t that mean those animals are more appealing to the Black guy than the Black female? I can’t say that I blame them in that sense though.
My spelling is impeccable regardless of that typo. LOL.
You guys are so sad, but I really enjoyed listening to all of your bravado and bloviated self-esteem.
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@Garlin
The more you try to sound like a wealthy James Bond villain, the more you convince everyone that you’re a moron.
What is with racist nimrods and trying to pretend they have some imaginary scientific backing?
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Black guy rapes pigs and gives them vaginal disease. Here’s the link:
He finds the pig prettier than Black females! LOL.
http://www.truecrimereport.com/2011/01/andrew_lee_nash_raped_neighb …
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White guy caught raping neighbor’s dog. Here’s the link:
He finds that dogs are prettier than White females! LOL
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@ Garlin
No porn, Mock Ebonics or racial slurs please.
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^ A further nod to Garlin’s vaunted intellect.
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Let’s play fair here with the token White guy. Y’all are being racist toward me. I didn’t paste pornography. I simply pasted links to crime editorials. Can’t handle the truth huh? Okay. Have it your way. I never made a racial slur. Mock ebonics? That’s a strict rule. I can see equality is not practiced here. I did a good job of defending myself in the faace of wanton adversity. I can see my posts were also purged. Good for you. Way to play fair.
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@ Garlin
Find some other blog to drag through your little gutter world.
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@Garlin
First off, you are not the token white guy. There are a few regulars here who are white, myself included. So stop trying to play the white victims card.
Second, everyone is being perfectly fair. You’re the one who is acting like a whiny child because no one buys into your idiotic garbage. Though I, for one, can’t understand why you think they would, because all you’re doing is insulting everyone and then demanding they agree with you, then acting like you have some knowledge no one else here does and that you’re somehow smarter than everyone else because of it. Truth is, sweetie, is that you’re a moron, you’re just one who found a dictionary one day and thinks that makes him a college professor.
And one last thing, shut up about your rape statistics that you pulled out of your ass. It’s clear that you’re trying to make yourself an expert on a subject you have no knowledge on, and no one but you seems to be fooled by the ruse.
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Thank you, Haruka Tenou. It’s pretty bleak out there and Black women are left with the crumbs to marry, yet our desperation shouldn’t make it so easy for any man to have us. As Guatama Buddha said: “It’s better to walk alone than in the company of a fool.”
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I was wondering why this thread was still, in a sense, active. Now, I know.
Garlin,
First off, what does the links or “black rape” have to do with the topic?
Second, why are you treating you OPINIONS on black women as some objective truth?
Third, why are you even here?
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All I’m seeing from Garlin are a bunch of broken record comments. I believe him when he said his lineage is that of the cro-magnon and neanderthals. Look at his responses and you can tell that he is the missing link that evolution ignored.
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@Garlin
“Well, a horse is a beautiful animal and I have ridden them many times. ”
I thought so…LOL
I rest my case.
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@ Garlin
Bestiality is perfectly legal in Denmark, for instance, and there are actual barnyard brothels where you can go to “ride” that “beautiful animal” you love so much…and it’s legal in Alaska, Florida, Colorado, Arizona, etc.
The sad truth is that whites have been depicting themselves making love with animals for centuries (and there’s ample proof), showing a continuous culture of bestiality. And it is a growing practice among white men and women today.
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@ everyone…why must they come here to get diarrhea of the mouth. I mean really I’m not even reading Garlin’s garbage anymore, just enjoying the witty comebacks from my fellow Abagonites 😉
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@ Garlin
“I didn’t paste pornography. I simply pasted links to crime editorials.”—I asked you for links and you did not post any, but ignored it as quickly as any individual who does not have proof. You posted one link about one black guy and animals. I can provide a whole website or pornographic line dedicated to bestiality. Among countless reports of women sleeping with their dogs. So by your own standards white women prefer dogs over white men and white men prefer farm animals over white women. It is a common act among whites and too common to be considered just a instance.
I am sure you are hoping that if you bring up this constant filth that it will make it true. Wish as you might it won’t. Black women will still be beautiful. You will still be in denial, and life will go on.
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@ King
On some level I could pity him, but for the most part I do not. He wants to be stuck in his ignorant frame of mind. He needs the hard kick of reality.
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Somehow, i feel that this is relevant to the post at hand: This is taken from another site diaryofatiredblackman….
“A Few Words From A Tired White Woman – Don’t Get Mad…
Almost scared to show it to you, but here it is….
I’m white and have usually dated black men. I don’t purposely seek it out, but they seem to like me. Anyway, my boyfriend and I are moving toward marriage and have been together for more than a year. Believe me, if I was his second fiddle for a second I’d be out the door. This movie will bring to the forefront some issues that black women (yes, including some of my friends) need to deal with. But it will probably also inadvertently give them yet another excuse to shun every interracial couple that walks by. (“He’s with her cause he can’t HANDLE me, not cause he wants her.”) Another misconception…
But keep on sayin that. And keep on livin out your lives alone. Cause when you get down to it, that’s really what it is. But it’s easier to blame black men and white women. For every problem you encounter, look in the mirror FIRST–not last. What’s the verse? Before removing the splinter from your brother’s eye, first remove the plank from your own.
My man is exactly the type that MOST black women would call weak. He works hard, goes to school, and respects others. Yeah, they say that’s what they want. But actions speak louder than words. The truth is this girls: I APPRECIATE a good thing. Learn to do that instead of runnin away for a “real nigga” (whatever the fuck that means). There ARE good black men out there. But most of you prove time and time again that that’s NOT what you really want.
Actions ALWAYS speak louder than words. So keep runnin the mouth about how bad “your men” treat you, and then run off to sleep with men you barely know. And don’t forget to act surprised when you’re left out in the cold. That’s the real sympathy inducer.
Sorry if this was extremely harsh, and I know it was. But that’s how I honestly feel. One of my best friends for more than five years was a black woman–my age (24). Eventually, I had to cut that off. She was just way too hostile and downright cruel sometimes. I gave her a lot of passes, but the the camel’s back broke when she just REFUSED to be happy for me. Time and time again she just had to try to rain on my parade. I’m glad I didn’t let her though, cause the man I’m with now is the best I’ve ever had.
Thanks for listening. The truth hurts, but I truly hope that black women will begin to regain their self-respect. If you don’t respect yourself, no one else will. And that doesn’t just mean yelling at everyone who pisses you off. It’s so much deeper than that. Love, healing, and peace.”
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@Garlin, every race has features that are oogey to other races. Blacks and Asians are repulsed by body hair and ill-kept complexions of Northern European Caucasians. Eat more veggies you guys. Put down that slab of cow and give your body some raw spinach. Spinach does wonders for the complexion. Dark green leafy veggies are consumed by health advocates in American Northern Europeans (long term isn’t it? North Sea, Mid Atlantic, Northern Slavic..anyhoo), but just about everyone else of the American Northern European decent recoils at the sight of a dark green, leafy veggie on their plate. That veggie can save White women a fortune in gimmicky wrinkle creams and face lifts. As for White men, the same, however, most of you just don’t seem to care. Feed your skin!
Hirsuteness…well, love your fellow man warts and all 🙂 Just know that your race isn’t perfect either, Whites just rule the world at the moment, but Western hegemony shall wane. Go China!
-SS
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@ Sharina
I deleted one of Garlin’s links because it was a video about bestiality.
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Agabond, please shut this post down before someone hurts hisself/herself while trying to pull random “facts” out of their butt in an attempt to hurt the feelings of BW.
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my last post on this, just want to answer Garlin’s dumb comment:
Garlin, my wife has some of the most perfect arches ive seen on a woman’s feet…all you are doing is putting your nasty large a@@ stanky toe jam funky toenail foot in your big mouth…
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Y. said
“….
The people I find unattractive I just don’t interact with or discuss in romantic contexts. I don’t even know all the reasons why they are unattractive to me and I don’t care to dissect them. All I know is their physical appearance is unappealing to me and that the beginning and the end of it all.
…..”
Exactly! What’s the point in itemizing what one doesn’t find attractive (an arm’s length write up on a public forum even), right down to toe length, the fuq? That’s some deranged sh!t. After the first five lines I damn near fell out of my chair, oh the hilarity! The whole thing read like a creepy BBC documentary.
Oh yeah, Y, hovering over your pic does enlarge it, it’s a pretty pic so no worries!
———————-
Have a great Christmas everybody and I hope to unwrap some lotion for my oh so ashy, crocodile feet <3!
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@ Abagond
Ok. I asked him about links in regards to some statistics he mentioned earlier and he did not deliver on those. He can keep the links to the sick porn stuff.
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@ phoebeprunelle
Let me first say that I am not against interracial couples. If they love each other then so be it. I will quote something my aunt said to me. To some black men white women are like a bmw. It is used to show class or status in society.
I personally don’t agree with what she said because I have seen intelligent black females seek intelligent black men. In most cases they do end up with an intelligent black man. Chemistry is everything and if it is not there race will never matter. I feel that poster wants to believe they have an issue with her dating as an interracial couple while ignoring that people may have other issues with them dating. I see it all to often where white women get on blogs fully believing that black women are in a big uproar over white women dating black men and it is not always the case.
I was told once that this black guy dating this white girl had convinced her that he would not date black women because they were loud, ghetto, ugly, fat etc. She believed this and found out later that he cheated on her with a black woman. I have also heard tales of white men doing the same.
If they are happy then it is great, but I see her as one who will blame anything on black women instead of on the black friend that is unhappy for her.
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@ Sharina
Right, like we are going to get all indignant with them(WW). It doesn’t make me any difference. Love is love. And if you want to go down that interracial path then one enters at their own risk. For me, I just couldn’t see myself with anyone but a strong, intelligent Black man. And I got what I ask for in spades! (pun intended :-))
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@ Anne
I think Garlin needs this post to be knocked into reality.
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@ Lifelearner
But is goes back to stereotypical portrayal of the black woman. Not only are we seen as ugly but we are loud and against black men dating white women. Not to mention uneducated with several baby daddies. I have never seen a black female act crazy over a black man and white woman. I have seen it in movies though. Tv is destructive to the beautiful black woman, especially when we live in a society where kids are now being raised by the tv.
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I will take part of that back because tv has become better at portraying black women.
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@Sharina,
It was actually the Black men on that particular forum cosigning her and saying that Black women need to take note.
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@phoebeprunelle
Wow. That is sad, but i still disagree and i will elaborate when i am at my computer. I have words for those type of black men.
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@ Phoebeprunelle
I could call those men many things but I would first like to start with this.
1. Those are more likely black men who are not interested in black women but are looking for excuses not to be. The white women they are with usually play into this racists idea of the black woman. Making them feel like life is peachy because they have the white woman.
2. They are made and will play onto anything bad that is said about black women to justify their anger.
3. Those type of black men believe that because they have x, then that automatically makes them a catch. They ignore the fact that their personality stinks, their attitude stinks, etc. They believe that it can’t be me but it must be them.
I checked out what I think is the site and it has some sad stereotypes about black women. Sadder is that is it coming from supposed black men, but I have to wonder about that. Mainly because white men love to pretend to be black online to try and prove some type of point.
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Its funny how people say black women are ugly but the history says otherwise.White men were sleeping with black women and portugese men were sleeping with black women that is why the people in brazil look the way they do.Even when they had their wives with them they were getting with black women.Now the difference between now and then is that black women back then didn’t have rights and were violated now we own our pu.s sy and they can’t take it from us like they used to.We choose who we sleep with and they get upset because we choose not to sleep with them.They are like the boys who approach a woman the wrong way and get dissed then they call her a bit.ch. People say black women are fat then they say we are masculine ,well which is it because fat means being overweight and outtashape while masculine means strength. Why is it that an asian man is seen as being loyal when he chooses to date within his race but a black woman is seen as being undesirable to other races of men and is the reason why we can’t get other races of men,when the truth is we want to stick with our own.We don’t need or want another race of mens approval to feel validated. A man does not make me who i am,I am free and love myself for who i am and love all of my sisters for who they are from light skinned women to dark skinned women we are beautiful.
New International Version (NIV) song of songs 1:5-7
5 Dark am I, yet lovely,
daughters of Jerusalem,
dark like the tents of Kedar,
like the tent curtains of Solomon.[a]
6 Do not stare at me because I am dark,
because I am darkened by the sun.
My mother’s sons were angry with me
and made me take care of the vineyards;
my own vineyard I had to neglect
7 Tell me, you whom I love,
where you graze your flock
and where you rest your sheep at midday.
Why should I be like a veiled woman
beside the flocks of your friends?
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Now I am not saying that there are not bad black women. There are black women out there that just don’t want anything but trouble, but I do not believe them to be the majority.
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@Sharina
I would agree with your assessment as well and would like to add.
4) Those type of bruhs are brainwashed into believing the hype of anything but black is beautiful (ie. exhibiting internalized racism)
5) ” ” only grew up in lily white towns where their family was the only black family in the neighborhood/school.
I’m sure there’s more, but these two come my mind at the moment.
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@ Lifelearner
I agree with you 100% and there is more to add to the list. My grandmother raised 4 strong black men and each of them successful. Each of them have beautiful strong black women by their side.
When I hear black men like that say those things I often think “your mother is black.” It makes me wonder if they are dealing with issues that they may have with their own mother. I am just throwing it out there on that one.
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@ mstoogood4yall
I agree. The thing is in today’s society many rich white men will pay for black prostitutes. They condone the idea that we are ugly yet are sleeping with us behind closed doors. It makes me wonder how many white men fantasize about black females.
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Don’t listen to crazy old Garlin – remember Eve listened to the devil and you know how that went
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Well… now that the fool is gone, I can address the original post a little more seriously.
Why are Black women are seen as ugly?
I can give two explanations.
1) Competitive Oppositionalism
There are two ways that you can compare beauty. You can base your judgements on an ‘oppositional comparative metric’ or you can base them on a ‘parallel non-comparative metric.’ An oppositional metric means that you must accept a single standard of beauty, and therefore logically, the exact opposite of that standard would also be the exact opposite of ideal beauty (ugliness). A parallel metric means that there can be different types of beauty, each with its own unique ideal standard, and that varied kinds of beauty can exist at the same time and in the same place.
You can demonstrate what I’ve said practically by using the comparative metric to judge flowers. A Rose might be considered the standard of floral beauty, and therefore the measure of beauty for every other flower would be based on how close it came to looking like a rose. So something like a Bird of Paradise, with it’s horribly elongated petals, it’s grotesquely unbalanced non-symmetrical shape, and it’s unremarkable smooth stem, would be considered a floral travesty of hideous disfigurement. You could also test whether this approach works by watching the world famous Westminster Dog Show, and picking one breed as your standard of beauty and watch to see if the panel judges all the other dogs based on your single beauty choice. Almost nowhere in life is the oppositional comparative metric applied where natural diversity is a factor.
However, in this european dominated era, the european beauty standard has been erected as THE STANDARD of beauty, and therefore all other kinds of beauty must be judged subject to their conformity to it. So, as I said above, if there is only one standard that is beautiful then the opposite of that standard must be ugly.
Fair Skin = Beautiful
Dark Skin = Ugly
Thin nose = Beautiful
Broader nose = Ugly
Thin lips = Beautiful
Full lips = Ugly
Straighter hair textures = Beautiful
Curliest hair textures = Ugly
Straight/Thin figures = Beautiful
Fuller/Voluptuous figure = Ugly or fat
In short, the reason why Black women have been seen as ugly in recent centuries is simply so that White women could be seen as beautiful. Because Black phenotypical beauty is almost diametrically opposite to the White beauty standard, then Black women logically must be the ugliest in the world.
I’ll give my second reason in a separate post.
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This has got to be the most paranoid group thinking that there’s some covert conspiracy to subjugate Black females. Sorry to tell you, but recent propoganda is promoting miscegany (Usually Black males with White females).
Throughout my adolescent years Black females never had dates and were never the object of any White guy’s desires. The Black girls always tried to meddle in other people’s affairs, trying to feel important, but they were just interlopers.
There was a recent case study in which 1st grade Black kids were given the options to choose a Black Golliwog doll, a brown doll, a light brown doll and White doll. 17 of the 20 Black kids chose the White doll. Their reasoning was simple and ostenibly honest. They saw the White doll as being prettier and nicer. You can’t tell me that a 1st grader is impressionable enough to adhere to societal norms. Children are much more intinctive and act on their innate urges without influence.
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You guys don’t realize how sad, desperate and pathetic you are. Don’t you know that it’s the truly good-looking (beautiful people) who don’t have to tell everyone how good looking they are. They know it so they have the luxury of playing modest. They don’t have to brag. But since you Black females are the least attractive of all the races, you constantly have to shout and scream at the world against their preferred tastes. You all lack self-awareness to the point that a 5′, 500 lb. Black female, with a fuzzy orange do and apelike features feels that she is the ‘finest thing around’. It’s so crazy it’s comical. All the beautiful White, Asian and Hispanic celebrities actually downplay their beauty, because they know they are fine.
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For resw77,
Neanderthals didn’t die off. They evolved into modern man, which does not include you, Prognathous freak. Unlike the Negroid race, they haven’t evolved in 200,000 years. I don’t consider stinking up the White gene pool with your defective genes a mark of progress.
Kanye West begged and begged Kim Kardashian to date him. The guy was groveling pathetically for her until she finally gave in. She’s in it for the $$$.
There are also nemerous Black athletes dating filthy race traiting whores who are in it for the $$$. Nicole Brown Simpson??
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@ Peanut
“we need to stand up for ourselves as Black women and realize our worth and no longer allow racist, eurocentric standards to define our worth…there is a whole big world out there”—That is true. The problem is getting more and more black women on a united front to realize it. The brainwashing begins early and we are not only seeing it from white patrons but blacks as well who are force feeding black women the “you are ugly and worthless” cookies. The my black is beautiful is an amazing movement, but I am not sure many people know about it.
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We should look at female in the same way. The variety of female beauty is not a competition. It’s certainly OK to have personal favorites, but they are ALL beautiful and unique.How many people would come to a botanical website to insist that their favorite flower should also be everyone else’s favorite? It doesn’t make sense.
Yet witness the long parade of fools who have come here to say the exact same thing about women.
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King, that was an utterly brilliant analogy. *bows*
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Well thank you darqbeauty. I don’t know that it’s brilliant, but at least I think it fits.
People don’t insist that a certain flower, or tree, is the absolute standard of beauty. Some people like mountains, other’s like beaches. That is the nature of natural beauty, its diversity is complimentary and subjective. A woman is like a flower or a mountain, or a sunset. You can’t say that one kind is categorically more beautiful than all the others. It’s ridiculous…
But then, the internet was always full of dummies.
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Your argument is a valid one. There is no movement, no propaganda or subversive attempt to make us all prefer a diverse aesthetic in nature. Yet in human reality, there is a very real agenda being pushed. The agenda of white supremacy.
As for the internet being full of dummies, to use a quaint vernacular, “You ain’t nevah lied”!
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Asks himself, “Should I respond to garlin? What the hey.”
1. Anyone who doesn’t believe that black children, or black people in general, are not bombarded constantly with images that perpetuate White European beauty as not only the standard, but is superior to others must’ve been born yesterday. No one, expert or not, would accept that the doll tests that were conducted didn’t prove that white supremacy existed, especially in the minds of black youth. That would be like saying that every action doesn’t have a reaction.
2. What you’ve seen during your past is not universal. To think that it is is not only an example of sampling error, but is just another case of blind prejudgment and outright ignorance. Then again, that’s how you think when it comes to blacks. You’ve seen one or a few black people doing something bad. In your mind that must mean that most or all have done, are doing or will do something bad.
3. <i?"Don’t you know that it’s the truly good-looking (beautiful people) who don’t have to tell everyone how good looking they are. They know it so they have the luxury of playing modest. They don’t have to brag. But since you Black females are the least attractive of all the races, you constantly have to shout and scream at the world against their preferred tastes. You all lack self-awareness to the point that a 5′, 500 lb. Black female, with a fuzzy orange do and apelike features feels that she is the ‘finest thing around’."
So what gives you the right to tell black women that they are the least attractive? If that’s what you think, go ahead, but but tell black women what to think as if that is fact and not opinion. If you can’t tell the difference between the two, you are in sad shape, pal.
And black women do not, as you say, “shout and scream” at the world. If black women think they look good, why does it bother you? Maybe it’s because of the fact that they have self-esteem , and you, in all your virtue, think that is wrong to do. You think they should loathe themselves because you loathe them. That is truly sick.
4. Making sweeping indictments against the whole race based on your outrageous and biased opinions (not facts) makes you look more like an insane dunce instead of an esteemed comrade. I guess you prefer to be seen as the former.
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Kanye West begged and begged Kim Kardashian to date him. The guy was groveling pathetically for her until she finally gave in. She’s in it for the $$$.
LMAO…..Now, you and I both know this statement isn’t true but, just to give you the benefit of the doubt, you do realise that she had been with other black men before him don’t you? Were they forced on her too? I laugh at the way you justify her choice of partner and the fact that you assert that it is for financial benefits. In that case, you are saying she is a well paid wh0re (and not I note without underlying bitterness at whom she chooses to pr0stitute herself with).
Only a less than average looking individual, plain in fact, perhaps borderline ugly would detail all the stereotypical negative aspects of a race of people and the reason is simple – to make themselves feel better about who they are. I am guessing your physique is puny and undefined, you lack social skills, your hygiene is poor etc etc. Of course, you will come back and insist that none of this applies to you but without evidence I simply will not believe a word of it.
The only rationale for focusing on a group of people so much is pure fascination and awe. Don’t try to put some other slant on it – nothing else comes close to the truth. Most ‘normal’ people who are repulsed by things do not spend time studying something it. As usual with you textbook weirdo’s you have probably had some bad experiences with BP which have twisted your tiny mind and you have decided to rant and lash out in the only way you know how against ALL BP instead of being a real man and dealing with whatever happened at the time, learning from it and moving on *sigh*.
So boring, so predictable.
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@Garlin
1. Neanderthals are not proven to be the ancestors of any modern human. Homo sapiens sapiens originate in Africa…not anywhere else. Are you implying you are not homo sapiens sapiens?
2. If you want to speak about less evolved humans, then speak about yourself. Your skin is pale and prone to burning in the sun. If you were so evolved, then why haven’t you developed a NATURAL skin protectant at the very least?
The sun sure isn’t going anywhere anytime soon!
When black babies are born, they have straight hair and pale skin. Within days, their hair gets curlier and skin turns darker. This is a natural demonstration that a dark complexion and curly hair is more evolved.
Black couples produce white-skinned, blonde offspring, if such offspring’s melanocytes aren’t functioning properly. This is a natural demonstration that white skin and blonde hair represent nothing but genetic deficiencies, or as some say, “God’s big mistake”
3. No one cares about Kim or Kanye. We all know Kanye isn’t the first black guy that whore has screwed. And many famous white men love black women too: Robert DeNiro, Bill Maher, David Bowie, Robin Thicke,
Prince Maximilian of Liechtenstein, to name a few.
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From now on, anyone who comes to this thread with the Black women aren’t beautiful argument will be told that their argument is not logical and will be refuted with pictures of the these walking beauties (Black women).
Black people: Your best defense against racial terrorism is truth.
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This has got to be the most paranoid group thinking that there’s some covert conspiracy to subjugate Black females
Not as paranoid s your ideological kin over at stormfront, ihateni&&ger.com, and chimp.com. Now that’s real paranoia, either that or you are from Poland!
Throughout my adolescent years Black females never had dates and were never the object of any White guy’s desires.
Yes, your anecdotal evidence is the goal post for which we must abide.
You guys don’t realize how sad, desperate and pathetic you are.
Stop projecting your own feelings of inferiority onto us okay? I am beginning to think that you are a racist white woman engaged in an interracial relationship with a black man. Your greatest fear is that this kerchief head will wake up and smell the coffee, meet a black woman who is not like the other stereotyped negresses that he has fathomed in his kerchief head addled brain, and cut out on you. Perhaps your a self-loathing kerchief head yourself; who knows or cares? You are, whatever the case, comical and transparent in you lack of self-worth.
You all lack self-awareness to the point that a 5′, 500 lb. Black female, with a fuzzy orange do and apelike features feels that she is the ‘finest thing around’.
Jealous? Keep writing such one-liners and perhaps you may really believe yourself, no one else does.
There are also nemerous Black athletes dating filthy race traiting whores who are in it for the $$$. Nicole Brown Simpson??
Numerous, not nemerous, and ‘race traitor’ not ‘race traiting you comical buffoon! Will the hilarity never end with you?
Are you implying you are not homo sapiens sapiens?
No, he/she is probably from Uranus by the sounds of it! He/she is on another wave length.
Black people: Your best defense against racial terrorism is truth.
The truth and mockery!
Lastly,Satoshi Kanazawa is that you going by the name of Garlin perchance?
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@Peanut,
Quite using bigbootylover86’s videos of the most gorgeous women on the planet or i just may have to accuse you of using an ad hominem…
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@ Garlin
“This has got to be the most paranoid group thinking that there’s some covert conspiracy to subjugate Black females.”—Who said anything about a conspiracy? You do realize by saying “Sorry to tell you, but recent propoganda is promoting miscegany (Usually Black males with White females).” that you are agreeing to the idea that the media is pushing an agenda?
I guess you grew up in a hole. I had two white guys chase me throughout high school. Even though they married white girls, when I see them at functions all eyes were on me.
“There was a recent case study in which 1st grade Black kids were given the options to choose a Black Golliwog doll, a brown doll, a light brown doll and White doll. 17 of the 20 Black kids chose the White doll. “—That study is not recent. It is actually an old study (more than likely redone if anything). Now contrary to your limited education. The media has and still does push the idea that black is not beautiful. See your above statement as even it agrees with an agenda, although I doubt you realized that much when you said it. If you are told several times over something then you are brainwashed into believing it is true. For example video game violence. Kids play it so much that they believe that they can kill with little or no consequence. They become insensitive to the violence.
“You guys don’t realize how sad, desperate and pathetic you are. Don’t you know that it’s the truly good-looking (beautiful people) who don’t have to tell everyone how good looking they are”—Then why do white women do it so often? See you are really just trying to apply things that white women do to black women in hopes that it will make it less true for white women. I hate to break it to you, but white women not only say this but do things to ensure it. Thus plastic surgery. Some white women tend to go overboard with it in hopes of becoming beautiful. If white women are so beautiful then why do all those surgeries? Why wear tons of make-up? I could make a longer list for you if you like.
‘All the beautiful White, Asian and Hispanic celebrities actually downplay their beauty, because they know they are fine.”—Now you are azz kissing Hispanics. What happened to you Amerindian obsession? Hispanics don’t down play anything and if you really knew Hispanics then you would know that. Hispanics are very flashy and are very open about their beauty. now before you come back acting like you know so much my in-laws are Hispanic. Asians are very modest from what I have seen. They are the only ones out of those you mentioned that are not flashy. Now it is obvious from your statement that you don’t know black women because they are very modest in regards to that as well. You just have those that are over confident and those that are shy in every race. Boasting about ones beauty is not a sign of them being ugly. You get more pathetic with every response. “Don’t you realize how sad, desperate and pathetic you are” your own words suit you so well. LOL
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Peanut,
Your video is from this dude who goes by the name bigbootylover86. Nonetheless the video should help people realize that many, many Black women are that way.
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@ Peanut and phoebeprunelle
Yes a picture is worth a thousand words. A video is even better.
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So the second point I wanted to bring up in answer to the question is.
2) Economics & Access
Not too many centuries ago, Beauty perception was relatively local. People within certain grouping of villages or settlements came to decide what they thought was beautiful among themselves. The vast majority of the world population never ventured more than 30 miles from their homes and places of birth. So women had only to worry about how their own specific group would perceived them. But as the world grew smaller, and europeans began expand their empires, a universal beauty standard emerged—the European Beauty Standard. Coincidentally, the people who had all the guns also just so happened to be appointed the ‘most beautiful people’ as well… what are the chances? So the conquerors fashioned the World standard of beauty in their own image.
But here is the tricky part. The European Beauty Standard was not only based on being european—that was only the first step. As it developed, it also became about wearing corsets, powdered wigs, thick makeup, red lip coloring, lavish clothing, stilted shoes, and the like. So it should be clearly understood, even european women do not naturally look like the European Beauty Standard. The fashions changed with time but there was always a combination of hair, makeup, and clothing, that was instrumental in defining what beauty was. As moderate wealth became more common among the working class, companies began marketing beauty and fashion to the masses. But where would this leave black women?
Most black women were forced into to the lower classes (as a matter of U.S. policy.) It was done by under-education, by exclusion from trade unions, by restrictive real estate practices, by exclusionary hiring practices, and a myriad of other methods too numerous to name. But the result was:
1) The average Black women had far less amount of disposable income than the average White woman.
2) Knowing this, national companies did not feel it was profitable to create and market beauty products for Black women.
So you had this vicious cycle. For decades beauty, makeup and fashion companies did not create product to suit Black women. But even if they had, Black women would not have been able to afford them because of the systematic poverty imposed upon them by the American Apartheid System. The net result of this is that for centuries, you had an image of White women with fashion, hair stylists, and makeup, and the majority of Black American women either going without or making do with products that were not really made for their complexion, hair texture or build. Of course, most Whites never even thought about it. They just assumed that the differences they were seeing was because their own race looked so much better than everybody else! But consider the imbalance of thier advantage.
Now this is what some famous White women (who are considered to be beautiful) look like without makeup.
Miley Cyrus
Debra Messing
AnnaLynne McCord
Reese Witherspoon
Britney Spears
Gwyneth Paltrow
Kate Moss
Madonna
The point of showing these is not to attack White female beauty, but to simply show that when you don’t have access, time, or money for makeup, hair stylists, and fashion, that it makes a difference in how well you conform to the modern beauty standard. Now just imagine if it was most White women who were without makeup etc. and most Black women had the access and the means to look like this:
or this:
Is it possible that an observer might believe that White women were so much uglier than Blacks, when in fact, it was really more about opportunity and access? Today, things have changed, but it takes time for old stereotypes to die out. The most insecure among Whites will continue to try and hang on the old myth because belonging to a ‘superior racial group’ is all that you have when on a personal level you are a loser.
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@ King
I believe that is a very good assessment of the matter.
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King, you’ve proven your point, but you are also missing the point. So many Black American men are still willing to spend a fortune, if they have one, or their money to acquire one of these women, no matter how plain they are and no matter how fat or otherwise undesirable they are.. This is obvious everywhere in America these days. So it doesn’t matter how they look without makeup. It’s common knowledge among white women these days that no matter what they look like, they can always get a Black American man. If you spend any time around white women these days, you hear this.
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When you think about it, white men in America have really done well by white women because they have created a huge pool of Black American and other men who even want white women who are considered not desirable by white men..
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Jorbia, my point was that a big part of the inferiority myth regarding Black Female Beauty is rooted in a perception that never factored in that it takes money to be perceived as beautiful in this society. If you force women to be poor, they are likely not to be able to compete on the same level as wealthier women, which may be mistaken for natural unattractiveness when in fact, it is not.
This misperception is not race specific. Weak-minded people of every ethnicity buy into it, including weak-minded Black men. I’m not saying that every Black man who dates or marries a White woman is weak-minded, just as I would not say that every Black woman who married a White man was weak-minded. But people who believe that their own perception of race and beauty is THE correct perception for everyone else (no matter what color) are weak-minded children.
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King, I understand your point, but my point is that these days, money is irrelevant when it comes to white women’s beauty or lack of it because white women are simply beautiful to Black American and other men like them, no matter how these women actually look or are..
White men have created a pool of men or seen to it that there are plenty of Black and other men who want and pursue even the white women that most white men reject. This provides a man for every white woman of any age, if she wants a man in her life. It’s common to see young Black men with older white women. Keep in mind that some Black American women have money these days, but even their natural or bought beauty is still not considered enough by some of the more upstanding Black American men. You may call these men weak-minded but you’re describing a huge pool of men..
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The effect was quite unintentional. Whites (men and women) promoted White supremacy for centuries. They had no notion that interracial pairings would ever be commonplace. What they did was to accidentally create a “forbidden fruit” psychology that effects the clueless.
However, if you think that there are no White women who are lonely, or who have struggle to find a husband, then you are mistaken. let me ask you a question. What race of women do Black men most often marry?
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Other than that, this racist white guy in this thread sounds like he’s stomping his feet as he declares his dislike of Black women. He is overstating his dislike of Black women, so I know he’s attracted to us, or some of us.
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However, if you think that there are no White women who are lonely, or who have struggle to find a husband, then you are mistaken. let me ask you a question. What race of women do Black men most often marry?
I know there are lonely white women. Some white women just don’t have the self esteem, social skills, opportunity, don’t want to deal with the reaction of other racist whites if they starting dating a Black man or a man of another group, or they just haven’t put themselves out there to get a man.
Besides that, the word “most” means at least 51%. So, of course, I know that most Black men who get married in 2012 marry Black women, but even that number is shrinking. My point wasn’t about who most Black men marry, so let’s not go down that rabbit hole. My point is who Black men consider most desirable.or beautiful since you were talking about beauty. Many Black men who desire a white woman can’t or won’t get her for one reason or another. This is why some Black men who have Black girlfriends or wives high-five other Black men when they see them with a white woman.They obviously consider it a big catch to get a white woman. Everyone knows this, yet Black men don’t like to admit it.
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I don’t know if i agree with this King. The desire for Black people to be in intimate partnerships with whites was and has always been a goal of white supremacy. Because this world is anti-Black, IR pairings create a sense of disharmony and division in the Black communities.
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My experience is that most of Black guys who I know are into Black women. They can go down a list of features that they attribute to Black women that they find preferable. I myself have dated mostly Black women all of my life. However, the most vocal and the most visible will always make the biggest impressions. If you go by professional athletes then you may get a higher percentage of interracial dating/marriage, but even among them MOST still marry Black women.
I’m not discounting what you are saying, I’ve seen the YouTube haters and have called them out in many cases. But they are a minority with a megaphone. There are actually many more “Black women are Beautiful” videos on YouTube than Black female haters. Black guys who hate Black women really hate themselves. Deep down they are striking back at the world… for not being born White. I wash my hands of such fools.
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Perhaps. But consider the violent and inhuman overreactions to any threat (real or imagined) to White female purity from Black males… even children. They did not encourage it with their castrations, burnings, strangulations, beatings, drownings, tarring, disfigurement, disemboweling, or being set upon by ravenous animals. I don’t think that anybody who truly intended it could not have reacted so insanely against it at the same time.
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It is a huge contradiction–this i know. Frances Cress Welsing has a theory about it and so does Michael Bradley. The horrors that you mentioned were not just committed against Black men (and women) simply because of a genetic threat to white purity, but also because of the fear that Black men and women together creating Black babies would outnumber them.
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@King,
But i do tend to agree with your assessment that most Black men are into Black women not because they have to be but because that is actually a real preference. This has been my experience with Black men and i have only met one who was seriously into white women and even his angle was because he was trying “to get back at white men”.
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In that case, they should have lynched Black men for having sex with Black women, not for whistling at White ones.
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^Well they did in a sense…to prevent as many Black babies from being born: lynch Black men just because.
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@ Peanut
i see it a bit differently.
I think that the roots of the extraordinary attitudes towards Blacks by Whites were necessary in order to justify their sins. If Black people were really people, then the White people who kept them captive would have been monsters. So it became necessary for Blacks to become non-people.
You can’t just take a Black female who is partnered to a male and compel her to mate with someone else in order produce a certain stock—not unless they don’t have feelings like normal human beings. The men must become aggressive sexual brutes, devoid of love or human compassion, like dogs willing to mate with any female in heat. And she must be a lascivious and insatiable seducer who enjoys the lust of random mating. In that way, the White master is really doing everyone a favor and just playing into their innate animal natures. Otherwise such a thing would be unthinkable to to do to real human beings. This is how White atrocities where justified.
I think both African sexes were portrayed as animalistic, aggressive, lustful, insatiable, natural, oversexed, unpolished, physical. Then to add an extra warning, they portrayed the Black male as having engorged and oversized sexual organs. The combination of animalism added to the large organs was calculated to terrify the sensibilities of White women of the day who seen as demure, pure, and reticent. It was reasoned that the last thing that they would want would to be attacked by such a disgusting sexual animal.
However after many years, several generations, and much social upheaval, not to mention a sexual revolution or two, those same attributes ascribed to Black men and women are seen quite differently.
Black Man
Animalistic – Instinctive, keen, edgy
Aggressive – Take charge
Lustful – Sensuous
Natural – Earthy, real
Oversexed – High sex drive
Unpolished – Rugged
Physical – Endurance, fitness, stamina
Black Women
Animalistic – Wild, uncontrollable
Aggressive – Bossy, pushy, manly
Lustful – Nasty, Kinky
Natural – Unsophisticated
Oversexed – Whorish, Slutty
Unpolished – Rough, hard
Physical – Competition, too much to handle
On one hand, after the passing of time time, in today’s world, Black men actually benefit from some of the stereotypes put upon him during slavery. But unfortunately these same animalistic stereotypes are not nearly so flattering when applied to women as men
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@ Legion,
I’m thinking more of ‘beautiful’ as in on the curve or ‘above average.’
To me, anyone who Hollywood casts as the lead in a romantic comedy is probably considered to be beautiful, or at least pretty. The same goes for most female pop stars. Bear in mind, this is what they look like “with their face on.”
Reese
Madonna
Neither is perfect looking, but look at the difference with hair and makeup.
@ Peanut
A reply to you is stuck in moderation
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@ Peanut
I clicked the link and those rules were crazy.
I laughed at rule 7 don’t talk about a white womans appearance,shoot i’d be in a lot of trouble then.That proved that jim crow was really made to keep white women safe and away from blacks. It was made to make sure white women were viewed as ideal and not allow blacks to get near them especially black men. lol @ their insecurities and treating white women as trophies.Shoot i’d rather be considered ugly and be independent than be considered beautiful and treated like a trophy an object that people only take out to show off to people or wax,[wax on wax off ]* in my mr miyagi voice*
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rofl abagond u get the funniest pics. shenehneh looks like she sayin “Oh hole up uh uh”
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Abagond can you do a post about backhanded compliments blacks get
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@King
My experience is that most of Black guys who I know are into Black women. They can go down a list of features that they attribute to Black women that they find preferable.
Since so many Black men complain about whites and racism, as if white men are their enemy. So, I’d say they are reluctant to say in the same breath that they prefer or want a white woman. That would be like saying they hate white racist men but love their enemy’s daughters, sisters, mother, and female cousins. So, it’s more admirable for them to say they love Black women, even when they don’t.
I agree that “most” Black men are with Black women since “most” means at least 51%, I sense that you’re trying to reassure Black women that Black men still want them, but it’s a fact that about 25% of the Black American men who married in 2008 married women who were not Black, according to Pew Research center. This has been widely reported..
I’m not discounting what you are saying, I’ve seen the YouTube haters and have called them out in many cases.
You don’t need to go on YT to encounter these haters. They troll sites where Black women gather online,. Clutch magazine did a recent article about them. Lots of them are offline too.
Black guys who hate Black women really hate themselves. Deep down they are striking back at the world… for not being born White.
Which makes me wonder why they don’t also do videos where they lash out at their Black daddies, even though they were probably abandoned.
When it comes to white women and beauty, I think that many Black men think that the definition of beauty is white women. They don’t even look at her features to see whether she’s actually beautiful because white skin on a female is the very definition of beauty to them.
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I prefer figures from the U.S. Census.
“In the United States there has been an historical disparity between Black female and Black male exogamy ratios: according to the United States Census Bureau, there were 354,000 White female/Black male and 196,000 Black female/White male marriages in March 2009, representing a ratio of 181:100.[21] This traditional disparity has seen a rapid decline over the last two decades, contrasted with its peak in 1981 when the ratio was still 371:100.[22] In 2007, 4.6% of all married Blacks in the United States were wed to a White partner, and 0.4% of all Whites were married to a Black partner.”
– Wiki
“4.6% of married Black American women and 10.8% of married Black American men had a non-Black spouse. 8.5% of married Black men and 3.9% of married Black women had a White spouse.”
– Wiki
Almost 90% of Black men who marry do so with a Black woman. About 95% of Black women who marry do so with a Black man. This is based on the U.S. Census which is the final word. It doesn’t sound like the HUGE trend that you think it is. Overall, of the African-American men who do marry interracially, they do so at about twice the rate of African-American women. And the disparity between the two has been rapidly shrinking since the 1980s.
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i am a white woman. pale, stick-like, and lacking any curves.
i think black women are beautiful!!! you’re right, i’m a little jealous!! 🙂
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Spot on Peanut.
The garden is big enough for everybody.
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@ Peanut
Right on!
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@ peanut
Amen, women in general have to deal with some pigs sterotypes some more than others and hold our head high.All we have ever wanted is to be equal not greater than just equal but some people are just so scared and think we want to be greater.Its like when slaves were freed whites thought blacks would want revenge but we just wanted to be free.
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@King,
I’d even add to those stats that only .7% of married white women in the U.S. have Black husbands. That is not even a full 1%. And, Black men being married to white women at twice the rate as Black women being married to white men is not a “real” statistical difference…
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I think many black women are gross. They are not feminine, and their attitude sucks. They are loud and rude.
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Would you say the same thing about a lot of White women too Robert?
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question…….Kelly Rowland or Beyonce?
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@ Dave and King
Allow Robert to live in his delusion. I fear putting to much of the truth on him will lead him to an early grave.
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Peanut:
let’s be straight,all women are beautiful…Black, white, asian, latina, Amerindian, Indian and every ethnicity on earth has beautiful women…whether thin, thick, small or tall…there are beautiful women that come in a variety of looks…but what i’m against is racial hierarchies of beauty and it’s annoying that in the west white is championed as THE ONLY form of beauty…
THIS. I see no reason why all types of feminine beauty aren’t appreciated. Why is it that only white beauty is appreciated and set up as a standard for all other women in the world?! Why should a non-white woman have to model herself after white beauty in order to be considered beautiful? The majority of the world’s women do not look like this so why is this “standard” being shoved down our throats. How boring.
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@ Mochasister
“The majority of the world’s women do not look like this so why is this “standard” being shoved down our throats. How boring.”– My husband does advertisement for Victoria Secrets and he told me once that I would be surprised how often the women are photo shopped to look thinner than they really are.
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It annoys me that the standard of beauty is not even representing majority of women.In the fashion world they mostly show size 0-6 and in america the average size of a woman is a 14 or 16.I notice its mostly other women and gays who tell women they are fat or ugly.When adele started singing this gay fashion designer said something negative about her weightWhen black women wear their hair natural its mostly other women who are negative about it.Ladies we should not listen to our competition because they are just playing mind games.
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@ RObert
And i think trolls like you suck. yall have to pick on people for no reason over the internet yet are too cowardly to say it to people’s face.You seem too feminie to be on here starting ish ….here i’ll give you some of my masculinity. I’m not loud or rude but i wouldn’t mind a rude boy *in my rihanna voice*
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feminine*spelled wrong lol
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@ Dave
kelly Rowland and Beyonce are beautiful i’ll add Gabrielle Union as well
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Sharina
My husband does advertisement for Victoria Secrets and he told me once that I would be surprised how often the women are photo shopped to look thinner than they really are.I
In the words of Bobby Boucher’s mother from The Water Boy: Photo shop is the devil!
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I have seen some very beautiful colored women. I think, in general, however, people are attracted to people who look somewhat like them. They identify with certain features. Its true that most white men aren’t attracted to negroes, but most negro males aren’t attracted to white women either. I have seem some very beautiful colored women and I think they are beautiful. On average, I have a preference for white women. I dont think thats racist. Its just my preference. Im sure that most negroes would find me repulsive as a white male.
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Meade, you sound like you’re writing to us from the 1950s!
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“Im sure that most negroes would find me repulsive as a white male.”
Meade, you are probably right! Carry on.
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@ Meade,,,,, Colored women? Who are you George Wallace from 1950? You sound dated as hell. It is 2013. Come join us.
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Oh wait, I got played Meade is a troll.
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@Mary
”@ Meade,,,,, Colored women? Who are you George Wallace from 1950? You sound dated as hell. It is 2013. Come join us.”
LOL I laughed my butt off when I read Meade’s post because he knows that most Black American women would never consider dating a White man. Plus his racist mindset is not even of this century, more nineteenth century to me!
Honestly I don’t care what racists think, Black women are beautiful. I know that because I am a Black woman.
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So has that global porn md map changed thoughts about this post inregards to perceptions of black women and attractiveness?
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It might be too late to comment on this but I am burning to state my opinion on this matter. I am a black African girl living in Australia and I have seen all you have mentioned to be true. Among my brothers I am one of the most attractive girls they know my looks are above average and this is the honest truth. Conflict is that I am attracted to white men, they come up to me telling me how gorgeous I am , usually at clubs but it usually ends here. They do not take me seriously even if I show interest. White people simply overlook beautiful black women. There is plenty of us in this city but a white make would rather go out with an average looking white girl than a drop dead gorgeous afro beauty. I am on the verge of giving up on the men I’m attracted to, it’s frustrating!
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@Hadija, this is a hard one to answer to first because it all depends on what you are looking for. Clubs and bars are good for one nighters but if you are looking for more you might be in the wrong place. Second of all you have a very healthy view of yourself we cannot tell if it is deserve or not, could be you are drop dead gorgeous or maybe not. Third you could just be attracted to jerks. Last you have based this just on your looks not upon your intellect, ability to socialize or anything else but looks. There was only one thing on at least my mind if I like a girl just for her looks in club.
P.S. That wouldn’t be the second date.
Take this all with a grain of salt, because I am not white so I can’t particularly answer for that group or any other. I am however me and I would say if I met a great looking girl in a bar I am less incline to think girlfriend material. However, that is one guys opinion right or wrong as it may be. I am very happy to be over those younger years of club hopping, nostalgic as it might be.
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I think you are living in a state of denial. Perhaps those individuals are just trying to be polite and say nice things even if it goes against the grain. It’s done quite often in social settings. If you really think you are that attractive then why is it impossible for you to land a White man of your dreams? That’s pretty sad. White people are aware that Black females try to emulate the looks of of other women from the hair, facial features and body dimensions. As far as weaves and wigs, just because it’s on your head doesn’t mean it grew from your head. Have you ever seen or heard of a White, Asian or Latina getting a hairdo that resembles the Broccoli-headed afro look? Never in your life. Besides, Black females tend to have narrow hips. That is why they tend to have better running speed for short sprints. their center of gravity is more centered where they can thrust and propel their bodies more quickly. If your hips are splayed and wider it tweaks the body from side to side preventing a more forward thrust. Narrow hips are unattractive and considered masculine.
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Are you serious??? Are you crazy?? Explain to me why Black females are always hitting on me?? I’m a White man.
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@ Garlin
“I think you are living in a state of denial.”—Actually that is you.
“If you really think you are that attractive then why is it impossible for you to land a White man of your dreams?”–Actually I have been engaged to a white man and have dated white men and I am far from this white persona you believe all black women take on.
“White people are aware that Black females try to emulate the looks of of other women from the hair, facial features and body dimensions.”—You may want to get with the times because black women are going for natural looks.
“Have you ever seen or heard of a White, Asian or Latina getting a hairdo that resembles the Broccoli-headed afro look? Never in your life.”–I see once again you are living in denial. I have seen white women and asian women alike wear the afro. It frankly depends on the individual style. In fact this white women slick hair you believe is privy to certain women is not. I have seen nappy hair white women. Perms and relaxers are not just for black women. Education Education…something I see you still have not gotten.
“Black females tend to have narrow hips”–Just like you have a narrow mind. Most black women are quite curvy. I have seen very few black women with narrow hips.
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@Hadija
I will say that there are white men who are still just afraid of going against the norm. It is not so much that they do not notice the beauty but are not strong enough to deal with societies response. I have been lucky to be engaged to and date white men who could careless about that type of ignorance. I would recommend looking for a man who is very open minded if white men is your thing. Other than that I am against dating or marrying any man simply on race along.
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Are you serious??? Are you crazy?? Explain to me why Black females are always hitting on me?? I’m a White man.
Maybe they were drunk at the time. Liquor does funny things to a woman’s sight. She may have thought you were Richard Roundtree from ‘Shaft’.
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” Liquor does funny things to a woman’s sight. She may have thought you were Richard Roundtree from ‘Shaft’.”
******
Or someone a little bit more recent, like Morris Day of the TIME!
lol
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^ He’s doin’ the Oak Tree!
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@Legion much better put than what I stated. Excellent!
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friends of friends is best
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@ Garlin
That’s Ironic… was it meant to be?
Yes, because men in nightclubs often come up to women they don’t know and tell them they are “beautiful” just as a way of being very polite. “Hey guys, I’m going to ask that girl over there to dance with me… but first, I just noticed an ugly Black girl that I better tell that she is hot.” I must have missed that page in the White Etiquette book?
– THIS is the kind of desperate doublethink that prejudiced White guys go through all the time to convince themselves that everyone else is as big a racist fool as they are. They are inwardly terrified that they are part of a shrinking group of whining misfits, desperately grasping at the wisps of their evaporating sense of superiority.
Yeah… thanks for your deep concern, but you should really save it for Jessica-Chastain who seems to be having the same problem. But then, perhaps individuals just try to “be polite” to her and say nice things even if it doesn’t go anywhere… Y’now what I mean?
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/11/14/jessica-chastains-dating-life-very-shy-when-it-comes-to-guys_n_2130144.html?ncid=edlinkusaolp00000003
White
Asian
Latina
Are you really this stupid?
Yup… that’s the stereotype alright… Black women and their narrow, narrow hips. (sigh)
You don’t say? I just knew we could find some common ground!
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LOL
it’s not just white guys that won’t go there with a black girl , there are many, many black women who are simply not attracted to white men in a physical or sexual way and will rather be single
White men for the most are far more racist then white females who are now choosing black men as preferred partners, white men who do like black women tend not to go there for fear of what their parents or friends will say particularly when all the whites around them tend to date white but white women who are the braver of the two don’t give a toss they go with who they want
This article has some truth in the way certain whites not ALL, view ALL black people not just black women in a racist way-make no qualms about it and the fact that to certain white people black women are less feminine however this article like many other highlights the negatives and fails to focus on the many goodlooking black women that are around who would give these other women a run for their money and the fact that many men other then white men secretly adore.
What’s telling is when white men date out ethnically mainly Asian women, the Asian women they tend to end up with are very mediocre in looks and nothing special.
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I’m a white boy and to be honest. I don’t even look at white girls. I think they’re way overrated. They age like lettuce. Their features are not nice and tight and symmetrical. White girls may have that nice hair. But it doesn’t really last any better than their faces. All things being pretty much equal as far as being in good shape and not fat and of a basic equal level of attractiveness, i’d take the black chick any day. And I ain’t talking about them white looking black girls that white ppl think are so great. I like em dark.
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I don’t think that most white ppl are really racists concerning not liking black chicks. Just look around at the mall someday. I swear every time I go. It seems that couples look almost like they came from the same family sometimes. It’s very noticeable. Ppl tend to like those that are similar to themselves.
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No,no,Black women are the most attractive,although,like in every race,there are some ugly ones.
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They are ugly period.
I was watching the other blog where this black woman was talking about how black women come in all different shades and eye color
The only time they would have blue or green eyes and the only time is when they are mixed with whites.
NO other nation except whites come naturally I mean as blonde, red head blue or green eyed. So when you see that, you know that black person is mixed with whites. |Period.
Black people come with black hair black skin and brow eyes. Study your biology. It is impossible.
African or Jamaica they all look like dudes, and I understand why they have to work so hard o themselves to look like a females.
No white woman would even wanna look black, just because they wanna have a little tan, ask each and every one of them if they ever wanted to be born black they would be like no way. No way.
Black girls are at the bottom of the list for being masculine and man like.
I feel sorry for them.
I would never eve consider dating a black woman. Hell no.
They should stick to their own race
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Perfect name for you Igor rhyming with Ignore.
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@ king of trouble
I have to ignore igor the ignorant. Mainly because it is like has always been said…some people love to attribute everything to being white or you have to be mixed to have a certain eye color. Then the constant masculine rhetoric…oh wht not laugh. They just pop off at the mouth with nothing worthwhile to sat.
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@igor
You can feel sorry for them all day, but here is a little secret. …..they are still getting married, still dating, and still having sex with men in their race and out of their race….so I guess what you think believe and say are irrelevant. Or just yhe joke it turned out to be.
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Well, I suppose everybody is entitled to their opinion.
But in my opinion, one of the most serenely beautiful women that I have ever seen (black or otherwise) is the Jamaican singer Judy Mowatt:
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1uNQ7-Vh4d4)
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Lolz, classic!
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lmbao. too funny, black women most of the time do stick to our own race. ooh I needed that laugh. ooh and this we look like dudes, well this dude don’t crack when she ages. oh yes study biology rofl, yes study it and see all came from a black woman so technically those features can appear in blacks too without being mixed with whites.
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as far as black women being man like, thank u I consider it a compliment, as we are called womb Man for a reason. we are hue Mans. u can’t have either without the word man. the word feminist or feminine, well they have removed the word man as to completely separate from man which is against nature. I am a proud black womb MAN. Technically women are men with wombs. so idc about being so called feminine let white women have that word, as I am a WOMB MAn and consider MEN and WOmb MEn to be equal and need each other to survive. Let the feminists separate themselves from man and stand alone. I stand with Real WOmb men and MEn
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Just as you say black women as stereotyped so are white women to age prematurely. What a crap. If woman takes care of themselves they look great at any age.
You are too ignorant, black woman cannot have blonde hair or blue eyes as a natural feature. It goes against nature, it is not biologicaly possible. Would you lie a link?
Please, before you comment research. but again, you probably never completed high school, that’s right. Is that welfare cheque enough for your fake blonde hair and color contacts.
Good luck finding a man who will stick with you and your 10 kids fathered with 10 different men.
Your own men are getting away from you, who will you be left with. Maybe some low lives men. I wouldn’t do black woman if the world population depended on me and her.
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@ Igor
“You are too ignorant, black woman cannot have blonde hair or blue eyes as a natural feature”—Don’t know about the blonde hair but the blue eyes has actually been proven. Sorry if you missed that bit of information. I mean you want links but oddly people like you are too lazy to search for it (yeah I said it). How hard is it to use google. I mean really?!
Anyway and there are different possibilities and not all of them come from white mixture.
http://genetics.thetech.org/ask/ask57
http://kwekudee-tripdownmemorylane.blogspot.com/2013/02/blacks-with-blue-eyes-natural.html
Wow. I guess I should have not gotten those two degrees seeing as I was suppose to just be on welfare. Better tell my husband that we are so far behind as we are suppose to have 10 kids not two, but wait…according to you I should not even be married.
“I wouldn’t do black woman if the world population depended on me and her.”—no one is begging you buddy. Most people don’t do stupid so that knocks you off the list.
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Ladies and gentlemen
This fine show of ignorance was brought to you by the American Education System. Sponsored by Teaching Stupid breeds stupidity.
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@ Sharina
Girl idk why we even giving this john my d@# a white supremacists mayer wanna be the time of day.
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@ Peanut
I think the racist are back to claiming mixed people or light skinned people as theirs now (as if they are property)
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mstoogood4yall
I know but I couldn’t help but make a fool out of him.
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“I wouldn’t do black woman if the world population depended on me and her.”—no one is begging you buddy. Most people don’t do stupid so that knocks you off the list.
Nah, that’s because you’re too busy having your male dog “do” you. Run along now and go kiss him in the mouth, as your type loves to do. He misses you very badly.
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@ Sharina, Here is the thing with so much smelly crap coming from Igor it is hard to know which end to look at. I breathe a sigh of relief knowing that none of my sisters will get infected by him. I had no clue that someone with such and obvious brain defect could communicate anything. We should all just be clapping seeing something as special as that because it is a certified miracle. Still, I am not sure if he can walk and chew gum at the same time. I kind of hope he won’t infect any woman because really some people should never spawn. I don’t know what ethnic group he comes from but already I feel a little sorry for them that they may share the same genes as the man who can use both ends to sit on the toilet.
However, I am might grateful that Igor is keeping black women safe by not putting his diseased mind anywhere near them. Good job Igor keep it up.
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My family every time say that I am wasting my time here at web, however I know I am getting experience all the time by reading such fastidious posts.
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Lewis Howard Latimer once wrote the poem Ebon Venus
“Let others boast of maidens fair,
Of eyes of blue and golden hair;
My heart like needles ever true
Turns to the maid of ebon hue.
I love her form of matchless grace,
The dark brown beauty of her face,
Her lips that speak of love’s delight,
Her eyes that gleam as stars at night.
O’er marble Venus let them rage,
Who sets the fashions of the age;
Each to his taste, but as for me,
My Venus shall be ebony.
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Igor is so stupid, ignorant and racist. This troll is probably a White woman with insecurity issues or a non Black man who has been rejected by Black women. Either way, this troll is stupid and should be ignored.
Black women are beautiful. We are more than our butt, thighs and ass. We are the mother of civilization. We are the most hated yet envied women on the planet. We are the ones who keep the household together in this country. We are the mothers of the Black race. Most of all, we are the queens of the planet.
The only reason Black women are seen as ugly is because in the Westernized world, the beauty standards cater to White women. And because of the stereotypes associated with Black women in a racist, Eurocentric society. I would like to think we live in a society where Black women’s Beauty is celebrated but it NOT the case.
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Hi, im Italian guy but I grew up in Brazil, my personal preference are black mulatto e latinas, in Brazil i dated with many black and mulatto girls, Brazil is a wonderful country because there is not racism, there is a real melting pot and people of many races grow up together so we are all the same without differences, only difference is how much money you got 😦
I want to try a visa in the US for studying English and I hope to find A black beauty for dating. Fran
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@Fran,
You must be this dude named Jeff that i took classes with…
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@phoebeprunelle,
My real name is Francisco 😜
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@Fran,
So is it me or does it seem like ALL Italian Americans live in Brazil before coming to the states?
Btw, your last name wouldn’t happen to be Cicero…would it?
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@phoebeprunelle,
I don’t know any Italian American, I only know my reality, I been in the US for tourism and for shopping like all brazilians do, because there all is cheaper and good quality, but visions we have in Brazil of US is only money, disneyworld, rich people, big cars and good life, we don’t imagine all this problems about colour of skin or hair and people with minds stopped at 200 years ago, we are in 2013.
My last name is Gi…😜
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Gianni?
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@phoebeprunelle,
Not Gianni, I have different last name
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Nice post. I learn something new and challenging on websites I stumbleupon on a daily basis. It’s always helpful to read through content from other authors and use something from their sites.
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I am mixed (black and white:mulatto) and there seems to be a lot of confident black women here and there should be -there are some BEAUTIFUL black women and i agree with the person that said there are a lot of black celebrities that are seen as super sexy and top lists of the all-time sexiest women polls (like rhianna and beyonce) and things do seem to be changing somewhat, BUT in everyday life, i have to be honest-i still get hated on by black women and i always have. i feel like a lot of black women will say things like what is being said here about being beautiful and having self-confidence, but they don’t truly feel it. i’m not saying ALL black women are the same, but i go through a lot of dirty looks and “hating” from black women. ALOT. alot of black women automatically assume i think i’m better simply because i have light skin, long, curly hair and basically white facial features, but i don’t. THEY think i’m better. (and i don’t care who tries to deny this- it’s a fact and i know it’s a fact. if it wasn’t, why the hate from so many black women who have seen me for exactly 10 seconds?) i admit that i have never, ever had the problem with white men (I’ve been married to a white man for a decade) that a lot of black women have and i also admit that we do have it somewhat better, but we didn’t start that crap. why take it out on us? i hate to say it, but i feel like a lot of black women’s problem is their men lusting after anything and everything that’s light skinned or not black. that would destroy ANY woman’s self-esteem if they saw their men doing that constantly! not all black men are like this, but a dangerously high percentage are like dogs in heat when around white and non-black women. not only that, but they cut black women down JUST AS MUCH (if not moreso than (some) white men) I’ve even had ex-boyfriends ask me about this because no other race on earth disrespects and treats their women as badly as black men do. hispanic men love and respect their women. asian men love and respect their women. white men love and respect their women. but (some) black men do NOT love and respect their women. that’s just a fact. and black women will still defend them and then take it out on white, Hispanic or mixed women like myself! that is what’s crazy! black girls need to stop this and realize their worth. i think things are getting better. slowly, but they are getting better with sexy FULL-black celebrity role models(not half black like Mariah carey, halle berry ect because mixed and full black are different not matter how much blacks harp on that 1 drop crap-people can tell the difference and we are treated differently. period.) that are beautiful and confident. HOPEFULLY, one day we can all get over this race crap!
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@Lindsay
Do you read minds? Or I might ask to you know a large enough percentage of black men to conclude that they lust after non-black? See now I would take a guess and say much of the ignorance you just spouted would explain why you may have issues with black women. You dont really seem to know enough black females tohave the confidence to simply ask them their problem with you or care to. You just assume and run with it. I can tell you a few things that makes me have issue with you and I have not seen you. You are the type that I would openly say other mixed women dislike because you make it hard for them to form relationships with black women.
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@ Lindsay
I now have the time to elaborate on some things.
“-i still get hated on by black women and i always have. “—Would it surprised you that I have as well and I am not even mixed. This is not some phenomenon that only happens to mixed women, but I am seeing it as a ploy by some mixed women to have a reason why they are not liked.
“ALOT. alot of black women automatically assume i think i’m better simply because i have light skin, long, curly hair and basically white facial features, but i don’t”—It is not some assumption. Read much of what you say and it is clear that you think you are better because of those things. So they basically are reacting to how you display yourself to them because frankly you can’t read their minds to know what they think or feel, but you can ask.
“THEY think i’m better. (and i don’t care who tries to deny this- it’s a fact and i know it’s a fact.”—In order to make this a fact then you would have to mind read or have proof that one of those women just flat out told you why they don’t like you. So far you have not hinted that you have that so this is your opinion.
“if it wasn’t, why the hate from so many black women who have seen me for exactly 10 seconds?”—This question does not determine whether that you said is true or not (frankly because I know non-mixed women that have experienced similar as well as myself)
“why take it out on us?”—Your arrogance is why it gets taken out on you. You have made so far quite a few statements that indicate that you think or see yourself as better than black women.
” i hate to say it, but i feel like a lot of black women’s problem is their men lusting after anything and everything that’s light skinned or not black. that would destroy ANY woman’s self-esteem if they saw their men doing that constantly!”—So now you have an intimate idea of how a black woman’s relationship is? It is quite interesting how you have privied yourself to know what type of relationship problems people are having.
“I’ve even had ex-boyfriends ask me about this because no other race on earth disrespects and treats their women as badly as black men do. Hispanic men love and respect their women. Asian men love and respect their women. white men love and respect their women. but (some) black men do NOT love and respect their women. that’s just a fact.”—Another opinion you want to assume is a fact. White men cheat on their wives with hookers or marry light or white and cheat black. For those in that position they have usually learned to simply not know. Do you know any Hispanics? I have to say not because my mother-in-law divorced my father in law for his demeaning and disrespectful ways. Asian women complain about Asian men all the time. All my black uncles are married to black women and respect them greatly. A disrespectful man can be found in any race honey. Not just black.
“and black women will still defend them and then take it out on white, Hispanic or mixed women like myself”—Do they or are you assuming they do?
” that is what’s crazy! black girls need to stop this and realize their worth.”—Who says they don’t or have you concluded they don’t “feel it” based on your magically mind reading?
“not half black like Mariah carey, halle berry ect because mixed and full black are different not matter how much blacks harp on that 1 drop crap-people can tell the difference and we are treated differently. period.”—That is funny considering the 1- drop rule is a white American ideology and that most mixed women I know do consider themselves black.
So I will say good luck trying to blame black women on why you are disliked because I am sure it has nothing to do with all the claims of your superior nature that have anything to do with that. 🙂
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http://isteve.blogspot.co.uk/2013/09/the-black-wife-advantage.html
‘Black women tend to have a high opinion of their own attractiveness, and are not pleased by evidence that this opinion is not universally shared.’
Steve Sailer on 9/11/2013
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@Holmes
I wonder if said individual would be upset if he found out his opinion is also one that is not universally shared.
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bla, bla, bla
having pubic hair on top of your head and no distinct features, just mud kinda ruins the looks, lol
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@ realist
Is that what you look like? Hmm
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“Black women tend to have a high opinion of their own attractiveness…”
*********
Yo Holmes!
Damn Skippy… they ought to have a extraordinary high opinion of themselves seeing (for those with the gift of sight) how they are the finest and the most absolutely BEAUTIFUL females on the planet.
More power to melanin!
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I think that it’s hard for black women to assess the topic because black women are the ones being personally attacked with this stuff. So they will become defensive and revert to defensive ideas like “everyone is just threatened by us, they are jealous, they hate themselves, etc.” Those things might be true for some but I don’t think it’s intellectually honest to say that those are the main reasons why people think the way they think.
I think lots of people do genuinely and honestly think black women are ugly, even if they don’t mean to be racist by it. I think the darker skin color is what turns people off. Like you said, someone like Angelina Jolie or JLo can have features that black women have, like nice lips or butts, but they think it looks better at someone with a more fair skintone. The same way people aren’t attracted to very pale women.. those women who have almost translucent skin they are so pale. Even white guys really aren’t into that. I think black women’s skin can just be extreme for the tastes of most Americans. Tan/brown is popular, not too white and not too black. It’s mostly a trend or current style.
I also think it’s their noses. People with wide flat noses aren’t considered pretty in any race, so it stands to reason that black women with wide flat noses aren’t seen as attractive. That’s where the gorilla comparison comes from – not because of hair or ears, but just because their nostrils face outward, like some black people.
Black women get the brunt of it because MEN in general don’t have beauty standards to measure up to as much as women do. Black men being unattractive doesn’t matter as much because men’s looks don’t matter much. Besides that, dark skin and wide noses are strong features, and strong features just look better on men than women.
I don’t think black women should be mad about these things, I think they should be understanding. You can’t force people to see you as attractive. I just went to grab a bite to eat and every black woman I saw had a man on her arm. I think black women on the internet have such a big voice and it’s easy to get sucked in and think the whole world hates you, but in reality, black women look like they are doing ok to me.
On another note, the sun-tan thing is something I see black women talk about way too much. When a pasty white girl gets a tan, she does not look remotely black. Her undertone will still be pink or peach. A white girl with a tan looks more like a Hispanic or Arab person. White people tan to get tan, not to get a black person’s skin color which isn’t actually tan, it’s deep brown or mahogany.
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I know
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The most disrespected woman in America is the black woman. Malcom X was right about that.
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I have a wide nose, it doesn’t look like a gorilla though. Black people in general do have wider features, but you can still be incredibly attractive as a female with wide features. They just have to balance on your face. Exhibit one: Garcelle Beauvais. She’s just lovely. As far as skin tone, if that’s all you’re judging beauty on something’s wrong. I have seen beautiful black folks with blue black skin and I’ve seen attractive white people with alabaster skin. The way I see it, white people greatly overestimate the beauty of their women. Being the size of a toothpick, with pale blue eyes and straight blonde hair and a tan doesn’t make you pretty. How hot is Heidi Klum, really? She’s okay, but she ain’t all that. I can go out on the street and line up 100 black chicks that look better than she does. And yes, these women will have strong features, dark skin and natural hair. Black women are beautiful and certain women ARE JEALOUS. We’re curvy, our skin is gorgeous, our lips are, our hair is unique, we keep it real. If our individual characteristics are celebrated on other women, but not the sum of our parts, I’m sorry, envy is at play. You can’t call it anything else.
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For all of you who say it’s racist….name one pretty black woman on TV
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^ You first… name ONE pretty White woman on TV.
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^^ It never fails 🙂
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name ONE pretty White woman on TV.
Billy Bob Thornton!
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hahahaha…I love it when white people talk about negroids, pretending to care…!!!
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@ Perspective
(who is long gone by now)
Your first paragraph is your opinion and that is fair enough.
But they ARE being racist by it! What they are saying, by that judgement, is patently illogical. For one thing, beauty is a very individual thing. We all like and see different things in different people, so to declare that “Black women are ugly” is a bit like saying that red cars are fast. But beyond that, no one person in the world has seen most of the Black women in the world. The best a person could logically say is,
“Based on the small sample of Black women that I have seen, I personally do not find them to be attractive.”
But then there are usually exceptions, so even then, it would have to be revised to read:
“Based on the small sample of Black women that I have seen, I personally do not find MOST of them to be attractive.”
That is really the best most people could do if they were being logically consistent. And that would open the door to a lot of challenges
– are you biased to consider people who look more like you to be beautiful?
– is it possible that you have had a very limited exposure to Black women?
– are you possibly suffering from “confirmation bias?”
– how many Black countries have you visited and for how long?
– have you been exposed to anti-Black propaganda?
etc., etc
Well, to begin with, the only thing wide about Black noses is the variety they come in. Black people from all over Africa have different shaped noses.
Those 3 each have different shaped noses. Now I know hat you’re thinking… I just picked Black women with thin noses. No I didn’t! Look again. They all have noses of different widths. Are their noses somehow ugly? Do they “look like gorillas?” In fact, what percentage of Black women do you think have noses that make them look like gorillas? You have Google… have a look. Can you show me some? As you can see, you are COMPLETELY wrong in what you have said.
And how about Asian women with broad flat noses? Are they ugly too? Do they look like gorillas?
How about Latina girls with wide noses? Are they hideous gorillas?
What you are saying is utter nonsense and ‘White justification.’ White people make up these terrible and insulting comparisons of other races to animals and tell them that they are universally unattractive. Then they calmly explain that the effected race should simply accept the fact that they are “ugly” and just get over it. So what, you look like a gorilla. Hey, some guy will still take you, so no big deal, honey! Rejoice in your racial ugliness.
The problem is that White people have never been confronted with their own racial ugliness.
So what, you look like an aardvark! Well… just accept it, honey! 🙂
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Black women are ugly???😂😂 y’all make me laugh so hard😂😂I can’t stop laughing. Anyways, Black girls are not ugly, like c’mon guys. So your saying that beyonce,Kellie Rowland and other black celebrities are ugly?.Well this is a joke😂😂😂. Black girls are beautiful not only black girl all race. Now stop acting like a bunch of five year olds and grow up and open your eyes. Dark skin is a beautiful color. And what if I say that white people are ugly(which they are not) y’all would get really mad,like REALLY MAD! so don’t judge others because everybody is Beautiful. And beauty doesn’t mean having a pretty face, it’s about the personality, and y’all should know that. And not all black girls are ghetto(its unique) So don’t call black people niggers or whatever,thats childish and stupid.So grow up and I hope y’all change.
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Diana P.
What I found even more hilarious was your lack of reading comprehension. This post did not say blacks women are ugly.
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[…] Why black women are seen as ugly | Abagond […]
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Hm….. I am a white man, though I am creole. I have been searching for answers to questions just like these. I find black women VERY attractive. In fact, I have even dated womem that were directly from Africa. A lot of white men look at me with digust, as if I am sleeping with an animal, not a human being. I am curious to know what kind of indoctrination is needed to induce such hate.
P.S… For those of you who feel that I have no business looking at a “sistah” know that life is too short to care what other people think. My african girl makes me happy and that is all that matters.
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P.S… For those of you who feel that I have no business looking at a “sistah” know that life is too short to care what other people think.
Who cares?
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This topic about dating someone of another ‘race’ is like sexism, politics (in 2017), etc.. It’s a big can of worms, and it’s very complex. You can say it’s unfair, right or wrong when it’s about individual freedom of choice. The most beautiful women I’ve ever seen were hundreds of Indians (ah…from India) in their Saris. And I wasn’t attracted to them to date, and didn’t think about it. Too big of a difference! In age. There’s hardly ANY black people where I live, at ALL. Too expensive and they have other options. Let’s face it, race is a fake thing – it’s not scientific. But I did hug my favorite black girl today, not that her boyfriend would be worried. Oh, she’s cute, sexy, fun, flirtatious, shapely, friendly, etc., but I’m not really interested but to be her friend – and we are. I really like all types of people, but really like black people that I’ve been around. But I’m not all so attractive to a black woman romantically or sexually. In my high school we had 1 black girl when I was a junior and then a black guy in my senior year. I’d say he was the absolutely most popular guy in our school of 2,000 students! So I ask a black guy how come ‘you’ guys llke like blond women so much. He said, because they are the best. Oh, it’s more than that! No judgment. But it’s racism, ego & a poke in the…eye, don’t you think? Kind of like every team is gunning at the top football team, you think? Racism, it’s everywhere including black on black, as in what shade of black. My heroes are Ghandi, MLK and Jackie Robinson (of UCLA, the Dodgers….) And yet, of all the black women I’ve come across there were only one or two I was really attractive to. One was everybody’s favorite and very attractive – she had it all. Just because you like chocolate ice cream but not vanilla is like if you ‘like’ black women but not white women doesn’t make you a racists, because there is not accounting for taste. Today, it’s illegal discrimination to not hire because of race, but it’s legal and moral to only to date your race, and yet to date outside of your race could incite violence…in some locations if not death. It pretty much, for a lot of people, like sex with someone of your own gender – repulsive and crazy making. Sorry, just what it is – get use to it. Want to push the boundaries and be a ‘bad ass’? You call. And why is it that? You do you think think have the right to be pursued or found attractive by anyone or any ‘race’, ladies. Sorry. Men know better, women not so much. And it makes no difference one’s gender gets glorified and sexualize
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I wouldn’t take it all so personal, black ladies. When we’re all vying for the same things, and there’s so many people everywhere and so many races in any one place, I would expect so much. It’s like the Grand Canyon with first ‘American pioneers who came across it. It was just in their way and the Grand Canyon was not taught to be beautiful. Today, we see the beauty!
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@ akg96
Come back and write a coherent comment when the caffeine is out of your system.
Better yet, stick to rambling on Reddit or 4Chan.
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Come back and write a coherent comment when the caffeine is out of your system.
I don’t think it’s caffeine!
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3 fat black women were laughing at me(a thin 5’3″ 115lb white woman) because I was eating a salad and they were eating a mountain of fried food!
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@ Giselle lowe
So? Who cares?
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That sentence has got to win some kind of award… racism, body shaming, White tears, self aggrandizement, some kind of food elitist undertones and blog trolling all wrapped up into a splendidly ironic post that implies being laughed at made you sad.
Bravo Giselle… Bravo
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@Giselle Lowe: You are a basic and mediocre troll.
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Racism, Racist is the cry of intellectually deficient people.
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@Kirk Morris
LOL! “Racism” is the behavior of intellectually deficient people.
“Racist” is what you face in the mirror each day.
Nice try with your attempt to muddy the definition of ‘racism’ and ‘racist’. It’s not working.
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@Afrofem:
Long time no hear! Missed you.
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@Afrofem: Hey Sis, Missed you so much.🥰🖐🏿
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lol someone told me ‘don’t go back’ just the other day i said ‘i will not’ i couldn’t even imagine
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hi afrofem
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@ Herneith @ Mary Burrell
I missed both of you, too.
Sometimes when I stray to the comments section of a website and some White Supremacist is jabbering on about how Black folk aren’t this or that (aka the usual crappola), I think about what zinger would Herneith shoot their way. I love your wry takedowns, Hernieth. They always seem to be tailored to the level of ignorance you encounter.
Mary, when I look at the stacks of books on my desk and shelves, I think about how you actually complete the books on your reading list. I’ll bet you are knee deep in three or four books right now. How I envy you!
I started a new business and it is really exciting——-and time consuming. Also taking a raft of courses to related to web design. So much to learn. There are so many aspects of web design to bone up on, from color theory to security.
Starting from beginner again is tough but so worth it.
How are things with the both of you?
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@ v8driver
Hey, how is life treating you?
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@ Afrofem
I missed you. Glad to read you again!
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@afrofem not sure,
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waves excitedly at Afrofem
I’m so glad to see you! I’d been worried about you and am happy to hear that you’re actually doing quite well, just been busy!
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@ Solitaire
waves back energetically
Yes, busy is a mild word for life at present.
Hope you are doing well and in continual learning mode.
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@ munubantu
Thank you and likewise. How is your blog going?
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Afrofem, I was under the impression you were too happy with your life to bother with this blog. Will you resume your regular comments here?
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@Afrofem: So happy for you and your new business. I am sure you will be very successful . 🥰🥰🥰🥰🥰
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@Afrofem: Yes, I have discovered Edwidge Danticat just finished The Dew Breaker and just started Ibrahim X. Kendi’s Stamped From The Beginning.
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@ gro jo
Ever the silver tongued one…. heavy chuckle
Due to time constraints, not as often as I would like. Hope you are well.
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@Afrofem:
Glad to hear you are doing good. Change is always good! I’m doing good, got my driver’s license a while back and purchased a car(how did I ever do without one?). Looking to maybe go back to school, all in all, excitement abounds with the possibilities… What business did you start? Purses I hope!
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@ Herneith @ Mary Burrell
I continued our conversation on the Open Thread. Don’t want to continue highjacking this thread.
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@ v8driver
My question for you is on the Open Thread.
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My last 3 jobs there has been fat ugly black women that think there the hottest women.All 3 women had big mouths and horrible attitude
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