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Why black women are seen as ugly

Warning: Some will find this post offensive as it deals with some ugly racist thinking.

Black women are beautiful, but from the American media you would never know it. Maxim, Playboy and Vogue magazines, for example, make their living by showing beautiful women, yet show hardly any black women – as if they came from Sweden or Utah, not New York and Chicago.

Some possible reasons black women are seen as ugly:

  1. Black women look too much like men. Steve Sailer says it is because they have more muscle mass than women of other races. J Richards of majorityrights.com says it is because their jaws are too big. And so on.
  2. They look too much like monkeys and gorillas. It has been shown that white people in the back of their minds think of monkeys when they see black people. So you see even Michelle Obama compared to a gorilla.
  3. It is just a matter of preference. White people prefer the beauty of their own women. How does that make them different than any other race?
  4. The white lens. Most Americans, even those of colour, are brainwashed to some degree to prefer white beauty because of white control of the media and of the culture in general.
  5. Racial scripting. Whites are trained to notice blacks who fit their stereotypes. So they notice the Mammies (fat and ugly), the Jezebels (who look like prostitutes) and Sapphires (mean looking) while discounting the graceful and beautiful Sades and Phylicia Rashads of everyday life.
  6. Flat-out racism. Whites look down on black women so much they do not see them as women, missing their beauty.
  7. Envy. Deep down whites know that black women are better looking than they let on but do not want to admit it. So when Jennifer Lopez or Angelina Jolie have some feature of a black woman, it is called beautiful, but not when the same thing (only better!) appears on  a black woman. Or: when white women lay in the sun to darken their skin it makes them look better. Yet when a black woman is born with skin the very same colour it does not.

Uncle Milton, a white commenter on this blog from California who is intellectually honest, said this about the envy argument:

In my 48 years as a white male in the US, the number of white men seriously attracted to black women seems to be in the distinct minority. … for the most part white guys are attracted to white women (well ok.. a pretty significant minority are attracted to Asian women).

That matches what I have seen in New York: a white man can walk right by a beautiful black woman and not even seem to notice her. Like she is not there. She is on every black man’s radar but not his.

There is a bit of truth in some of these arguments but I think in the end it comes down to flat-out racism, which in turn drives most of the others.

See also:

778 Responses

  1. I would like to comment on reason 2: They look like monkeys and gorillas. Ok, come on now. Monkeys and gorillas are hairy. Black people are not. I think that reason is ridiculous. This is not an attack on you Abagond because I know that is how some whites think. I don’t like to race bash so I won’t say anymore about that. But I noticed the press had a field day attacking Michelle Obama’s physical appearance. The fact that she looks undeniably black, articulate, tall, bodacious must have had something to do with it? A few months ago, there was an uproar about her wearing shorts off of the plane. I mean come on. And the shorts were conservative, almost to her knees. Is her sexuality that threatening? I know many don’t feel this way, but those in power promote these attacks on her.

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  2. There are sick people in this world, shame on Google for not taking down the image.
    Why did you put up such a picture Abagond,I understand what you’re trying to prove here, but I’m personally offended by it.Again its not an attack on Michelle per se but black womanhood!

    She’s still First Lady of the US, and what are they? Idiotic pathetic wimpy internet tough guys!

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  3. Love this post. I feel that the media plays a big, huge part. As well as upbringing. It strikes me as weird, how some men will not notice a beautiful black woman almost as if they are not viable mates kinda like we’re a different species. Of course there are those who are shy or scared of approachin a black woman because of stereotypes that they have an blah blah blah. But they will notice an average woman of another race. Its really amazing sometimes.

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  4. @ Shani

    Black women’s sexuality is always threatening. They have nothing better else to do then to pick on michelle obama and make her out to be some jezebel or angry black woman which is neither.

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  5. For the most part I am on board with this post but the part where you say there is truth in most of these reasons is way off for me. Black women DO NOT look like men. Sure there are some black women are more muscular looking but for the most part, a vast majority of black women do not look like men. There are also a good amount of manly looking white women out there as well. So black women to not hold the crown on having some manly looking females. The other point was that black women look like monkeys and gorillas. Are you kidding me? In no way, could you have possibly written that with a straight pen(face)? Because you, Abagond, are married to a black woman to whom you are very much attracted, i don’t take it as you feeling that way. But for that statement to be there as even a partial truth, to me that is feeding into the blatant racism against black women that is so prevalent. I just feel that there is so much hatred towards black women from every race on this planet, including our own sometimes, black women cannot win, no matter what, because there will always be something thrown in there against us to keep us at the bottom of the pit. :-(

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  6. i am not mad at white men for prefering their own race of women and seeing them as beautiful. that is actually one reason why the are on top. white men are smart enough to know when they uphold white women THEY ARE UPHOLDING THEMSELVES!!! now black men dont seem like they got that memo.

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  7. All due respect Abagond, and I’m sure I’m not the only person, but out of respect for First Lady Michelle Obama, I would like to put in my request to you to change the accompanying picture for this blog post.

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  8. I can’t answer that question!

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  9. on Sun 6 Dec 2009 at 19:14:31 alwaysright101

    its weird about the tanning one…whites will not see your skin tone the same as a tan, but they certainly love to use the “well your skin is the color of a tan” when you say you don’t understand why someone subject themselves to tanning knowing the risks. i wish they’d make up their mind (i know they only did it to divert the argument to something else to avoid answering the question and having to deal with their low self esteem).

    i agree with the others about the michelle obama pic, not to mention its scary.

    but i think the list is spot on as to why white men don’t like black women, of course its cruel and hateful and once again stereotyping and not seeing the individual and all…

    many black men seem to be guilty of #5 sorta like with what Jasmine was saying at the end of her comment. Of course my take on that is that you have men who feel women should be to blame if she had a bad guy for a boyfriend, but men of all races seem to have problems taking responsibility for choosing a bad girl, and instead they blame the whole race of women rather than themselves.

    of course thats a whole different issue aside, just an observation though.

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  10. Abagond,
    I was also concerned as to why you put up that picture.
    Also, in your post, you wrote that white men in NY don’t notice beautiful black women. That may be regional because here in LA, not only do they notice, they flirt, approach and try to get the number. I’ve only been in LA for a year and a half and have to beat them off with a stick.

    But living in the southeastern region for most of my life, that is true. It’s almost as if they are conditioned to be that way. They, being heterosexual there is no other explanation.
    AO, your post is on point.

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  11. to ao:
    abagond has a love hate feeling for bw. he will say something positive about black women then wash it out by saying saying something stupid about bw. and btw, how can black women look manly with all these curves we have? im talking about titties, ass and hips. white women are the ones that are straight up and down like a damn man. but like i said. i aint mad at white boys, what they do is the reason we live under white supremacy. they uphold plain, ugly, cant age worth shit looking like they are 10 years older than they are, make up needing, non cooking, non house cleaning ww, un fertile need medical help to have a baby, i could go on and on but ww are wm mates and they are in the right for not saying a damn thing bad about them even when ww talk about wm like dogs. white boys know what time it is, and they know they come thru ww so why hell would they downgrade her and put ANY women above her?

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  12. it’s different everywhere. I live in London Uk where races mix more than in the U.S. White men date black women regularly, not necessarily lighter ones either. Some are very prominent ones as well like Simon Cowell. I’ve also been to Italy where as a black woman, i’ve had respectful attention from men. Some of my Black friends actually married into warm italian families and were accepted. So perhaps in America, ppl are hung up on colour but in Europe, frankly, most black women get attention from alot of non-black men and go on and marry them.

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  13. on Sun 6 Dec 2009 at 19:38:06 alwaysright101

    ive always found it pointless to go by location when it comes to who likes who, cause everyone has different experiences and stories, it think we are often more observant about what we see in a different location than our normal one because its different, its easy to not pay attention or notice or even look for it in your hometown setting.

    every woman is different therefore she is going to produce different results in the same location as someone else…its one of those subjective,can’t really be answered questions.

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  14. Lynette,

    I’d always heard that the South was very backwards in terms of interracial mixing. Same in Indiana, but not nearly as much. I strongly agree with you about New York. The first time I visited and thereafter, I couldn’t believe it. Men of all races and types are very forward. But that’s what I love about New York – the variety.

    Also, Abagond’s first point about black women looking masculine is valid. I’ve seen different men say that, mostly on T.V. though. As I’ve stated before, there is a show that rates women’s appearance from 1 to 5. The men are hidden but comment on each woman then rates her. It never failed, she would be rated lowest on everything except for her behind. And they would make comments about her looking like a man. That’s t.v., though. Never seen this IRL.

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  15. Ditto on the picture change.

    Do Black women really have more muscle mass than other races of women? And isn’t that a good thing? (My family always jokes about me being a little weakling, since my younger sisters have way better looking biceps than my non-existent ones. :-))

    I think it depends on region, age, and a whole host of other things. I’m from the Midwest, which is supposed to be really racist (I’m from a big city, so I never noticed it growing up to the extent that someone from, say, Indiana, might.) Men of all races seem to be interested in me, and maybe that’s due to me being young? (I think they say those under 30 are more open to IRRs than other groups.) The ones who approach the most are White guys, and they definitely aren’t shy like they used to be, lol. Here at my school, which is predominantly White and only 2% Black, the White girls are all but called dogs, but the Black ones are considered of a “higher quality”. (It’s a bit hard to explain, but we aren’t seen as “easy” like White girls, so I think guys mentally prepare themselves to bring their “A” game.)

    I think the stereotype of Black people as gorillas just persists because it’s been around so long, not because of actual physical similarities. My first time having significant interactions with Asian people was when I came to college, and many of them (most of my Asian friends are Korean) have broad, flat noses and big lips (both stereotypically Black characteristics and attributed to an “ape-like” appearance), and I don’t hear anyone calling them monkeys. That’s just an example, I’ve seen wide noses and bigger lips in all races, but my point is that it’s apparent that those characteristics aren’t unique to Black people.

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  16. Having muscle mass would be considered a good thing if it was more common in white women. I never thought having more muscle mass was considered a bad thing. I thought it was a good thing too.

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  17. Lynette you get a attention because you are so pretty lol Anyways, racism in New York is still bad but as far as affecting romantic relationships, I don’t think so it’s far fetch for Black women.

    @ Jasmin are you from Chicago? I’m from Chicago the mighty midwest indeed!

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  18. islandgirl said:

    Also, Abagond’s first point about black women looking masculine is valid. I’ve seen different men say that, mostly on T.V. though. As I’ve stated before, there is a show that rates women’s appearance from 1 to 5. The men are hidden but comment on each woman then rates her. It never failed, she would be rated lowest on everything except for her behind. And they would make comments about her looking like a man. That’s t.v., though. Never seen this IRL.

    Wow! what show is this?

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  19. Dani,

    Yep yep! Southside! :-)

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  20. ella Says:
    it’s different everywhere. I live in London Uk where races mix more than in the U.S. White men date black women regularly, not necessarily lighter ones either. Some are very prominent ones as well like Simon Cowell. I’ve also been to Italy where as a black woman, i’ve had respectful attention from men. Some of my Black friends actually married into warm italian families and were accepted. So perhaps in America, ppl are hung up on colour but in Europe, frankly, most black women get attention from alot of non-black men and go on and marry them.

    I agree. Here in the U.K. people date whoever regardless of race! Alas if non-BM find BW unattractive that’s cool with me!
    Just means more choice for me! :)
    Don’t you agree Jasmin, MerriMay, Lynette, islandgirl and dani ;)

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  21. Vindicator, you are so funny! :-)

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  22. I went out of my way to avoid seeing that disgusting photo-manipulation of the First Lady from I learned of it, only for it to smack me in the face here. I understand why you posted it, as it goes straight to the heart of your post, but it still makes my blood boil.

    The fact that they attacked Mrs. Obama’s looks just goes to show that they couldn’t find anything else to use against her, hence the school yard tactics. Much like those cretins who’s debating tactics consist of hair, skin colour, weight and the ubiquitous ‘your mama’.

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  23. I agree with the fellow UKers about what they have said.

    Also the Envy part when features that black women have get made fun of but put them on somebody non-black then WOW

    Big booty on a black girl ew she’s fat but on a white girl like Kim K or J-Lo “Big butts are so in!” (They were always in Sir Mix A Lot anyone?) then you have non-black women running around for butt implants for that “Brazillian Booty” which is ass implant central

    Hairstyles cornrows/canerows on a black woman it’s weird on a white woman Bo Derek “she looks so exotic” many white women get their hair braided to get the “bo derek braids” or white men getting the “david beckham braids”

    Big lips on a black woman ew gross, but on a white woman Angelina Jolie “full lips are sexy” white woman start taking fat from their butts and thighs and injecting into their lips with humouros fish like results

    And of course there is tanning.

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  24. on Sun 6 Dec 2009 at 22:10:53 OneBrownSnowPea

    I definitely agree with number 5. I think many people had issues with the Obamas because they didn’t fit into America’s racial box. Both Barack and Michelle define themselves for themselves. I think more black people need to do that too.

    I think it is either racism or socialization. Maybe a combination of both. Can these two things be mutually exclusive?

    I live in NYC. I’ve noticed white men (mostly young men) checking me out, but then they almost never approach, because there is still this stigma attached to blackness. But older white men over thirty act like your invisible.I think it is a generational thing. Older white men grew up during the 70’s when race relations weren’t good. We still aren’t to the promise land yet, but its getting better slowly.

    Oh, and that pic makes my skin crawl…it is so disrespectful.

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  25. “J Richards of majorityrights.com says it is because their jaws are too big”

    I laughed at this. Personally, I feel like many European women have a masculine or chiseled jaw. My exceptions would be Spaniard, Grecian and some Italian women.

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  26. That’s why those reasons are bull because their reasons for finding black women ugly are also what you can find in their own race of women.

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  27. on Sun 6 Dec 2009 at 22:49:31 mynameismyname

    I agree with Aba, flat-out anti-black racism is the core reason behind the idea of black women being seen as ugly by some.

    The words “black” and “ugly” should never been used in the same sentence.

    And please, Aba, take down that picture. It’s disgusting beyond words and is very disturbing to look at. A lady of Michelle’s prestige has no business having her visage manipulated in such a spiteful way.

    Take it down.

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  28. I took it down. The thing is, any picture that forcefully makes my point is going to be racist and offensive.

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  29. As and african american i feel very offended by the statements that have been posted.Steven Sailer needs to get a life he’s a self center uneduacted ass white .Yall are very inmature racist people that why we cant have world peace.

    Genine

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  30. The image of Black and White is the poster child of American racism for a reason. I think points 1, 2, and 5 are products of 6 and the denial those brewed gave way to 7. The most obvious and basic candidate for that kind of prejudice is appearence but this is something that affects a woman’s worth far more than it does a man’s, hence Black men are less inclined to straighten their hair and obsess about looks but their intelligence and honor is always questioned.

    Its indeed an anti- Black mindset that has become traditional. The image of Shanene (have no clue how to spell that) is kinda funny in relation to the post’s title as Martin Lawrence is sharing the screen with a good looking Black woman.

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  31. Shanaynay in the picture is played by a man (Martin Lawrence) and represents the Sailerite stereotype of black women as looking too much like men, while Tisha Campbell to the left is a true black woman, who is a million miles away from looking like a man.

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  32. The woman on the left is actually Pam played by Tichina Arnold, also a beautiful black woman.
    Thanks for changing that awful pic Abagond.

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  33. Yeah, Tisha Campbell is actually Gina, last I saw she was on that god awful “let’s all be beige and play it safe” show My Wife and Kids.

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  34. Tisha*

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  35. I find black women beautiful. From what I can see, albeit small pics, of the various posters on here, you ladies appear to have amazing skin and lovely skin tones. Damn that Coco Chanel! When she came back from her trip, having tanned skin was considered to be the rage because she did it. What about other people of color who were born with it? They were way ahead of their times it seems.

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  36. Yup, that’s just it Leigh. When white people tan their skin they are supposedly making themselves more beautiful by browning up. But naturally brown people are ugly? wow

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  37. The show is called “Battle of the Bods”. I will warn you that it is very kinda sexist and cheesy. Someone at work told me about it because she noticed how black women were viewed.

    Yes, Vindicator. I agree.lol

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  38. @AO:

    You’re right. During the summer up here in the middle of Canada, I would see countless white people tanning themselves rubbing tanning oil on their bodies or going to one of those places that offer that sickly orange spray-on tan. Why? Because they desire that brown skin.

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  39. @ MerriMay: Thanks for the correction.

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  40. I think that black women are seen as unattractive to certain silly people because they are the complete opposite threat to the idal of white beauty. Somehow i have noticed that if the features are similar eg. tan, big butt, lips e.t.c on a lighter or white woman then it is more praised. I have been told i look similar in features to some white women such as jessica alba. But I don’t think i am considered as beautiful or acknowledged as much because i am not white.

    I also find it funny that black men are seen as more attractive to more people than black women. Personally i don’t see that. Both black men and women can be attractive. some how if a black man does not look conventionally attractive ie. akon and lil wayne, women still say they are sexy.
    growing up as a mixed race girl with a white mum i still looked up to black women like en vogue and thought they were beautiful.

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  41. also abagond I think that as black man it would be good for you to make more topics related to black men rather the women. For instance how they are stereotypically perceived eg. the brute, sex god, sporty e.t.c.. Also you haven’t got a topic on black men who like white women or such interracial relationships. I think it is interesting that the black male, white female relationship is the least accepted of all.
    Its ironic that less marriages occur between white men and black women, when people (black parents, white people, black women) are generally more accepting of this unionship.

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  42. Deep down whites know that black women are better looking but do not want to admit it. (point #7)

    I hope you mean that black women are actually more beautiful in reality than what society would have you believe rather than black women are more beautiful than other women. All women (and men and everyone else) are beautiful, white women and lighter skinned women have an unfair advantage due to social conditioning but they are no more or less beautiful than black women. You’re uplifting no one by demeaning a different group of people. You just end up back where you started.

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  43. When I first read this, I was initially irritated by the your claim that there was “truth” in all ur reasons. I found it offensive that a bm would claim that bw looked masculine, and resembled monkeys. Then I remembered watching a vid on another blog of 50 cent doing a sex scene with a Latina-looking woman, and thinking to myself “why would she want to be anywhere near that ape!” So as much as bw look like apes, so do bm. As for bw looking masculine…well other races of women are masculine looking as well depending on who you ask, so its all relative. Some people happen to be attracted to manish ape looking women, some aren’t. Who really cares either way.

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  44. this is depressing and makes me anxious

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  45. “he will say something positive about black women then wash it out by saying saying something stupid about bw. ”
    yeah abagond, no offense but what’s up with the bitter comments? what’s your deal, you used to be nice and enjoyable on your blog now you sound crazy…like that comment you made about black women’s hair awhile ago

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  46. i apologize abagond for the last comment

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  47. one thing that irritates me though is seeing these black male actors (eddie murphy and that’ norbit nonsense) always portrayed ugly, ghetto, skanky black females, its really irritating. now this new foolishness “skank robbers,” give me a break please…

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  48. @Peanut Abagond has done post about black male sterotypes before.
    ——————————————–

    The whole black woman being seen as masculine has gone on for ages epsepcially dark skinned women. Just look at the old racist cartoons like “Scrub mama with a boogie beat” or something along those lines. In the cartoon the dark skinned black woman was a mammy and was voiced by a man whilst the lighter skin was attractive voice by a woman but it was implied that she was a ho(Jezebel)

    So now you have men today dressing up as women playing those sterotypical mammy/jezebel/ sapphire roles in films like
    Big Momma House,Tyler Perry’s Madea, Shnaynay, Rasputia from Norbit.

    Then you have SOME idiots of all races including SOME Black men using those examples from the films and TV show to say why they don’t like black women. “A lot of black women are like Rasputia.”

    Oh so a lot of us are like Eddie Murphy in a fat suit? Really? Please. LOL

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  49. YOu just lost a reader and a future doctor who was going to try to elp the black community.

    I am marrying OUT of the black community. Not only have I not found this to be the case in my own life, but also not the case in the majority of black women whom I know.

    It benefits black women very little to stay true to the black community especially when our beauty is attacked by the men who we were created for.

    I will take my beauty, youth, intelligence, and affection and give it to a white man!

    Peace.

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  50. ANONYMIOUS,

    YOUR COMMENT #45 IS EXACTLY WHAT I’M THINKING SINCE A COUPLE MONTHS NOW!

    I AGREE WITH EVERY WORD YOU SAID AND I ALSO FOUND VERY DISTURBING THE FACT THAT MOST OF POST ON BLACK WOMEN, ABA DOES, IT’S ALWAYS IN STEROTYPICAL WAY AND I NEVER READ SOMTEHING ABOUT BLACK MEN! THERE ARE PLENTY TO SAY LOL!

    About the post as always I disagree with some of those so-called truths, should I say all.

    As long the woman is beautiful, men don’t care about the skin color or the race….

    To me it’s some Black (men) who think that black women are not as beautiful as the non-black ones, the same goes with hair and skin, they(black folks) are the ones always talking about that.

    Again I have been surrounded and still is by non*black person, always telling me how black women are gorgeous, sensual and very feminine.

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  51. @ Jessica, Jasmine, Nubiah Bella, etc:

    MY SINCERE AND VERY HUMBLE APOLOGIES!!!!

    There is NO NO WAY that I think black women look mannish or apish!! Far from it. To me black women IN GENERAL are the most beautiful women on earth. So when people say they are ugly or the media makes them seem like it, it makes me wonder why.

    When I wrote that there was some truth in ALL of the arguments, that was a mistake. I should have said SOME. Since I wrote it in a rush – I was out most of the day and then my sons needed to use the computer for their homework – I did not stop and think that ALL meant I agreed with Steve Sailer, etc. As a practice I reread my posts four or five times before I let them stand. I did not have time for that this time. Again, my mistake.

    I do NOT agree with Steve Sailer or J Richards – they are just racist jerks trying to dress up their racism as science. If anything black women IN GENERAL have a more womanly shape than most other women. The picture at the top of the post shows how far off the “black women look like men” belief is.

    White people think thick lips make you look like a monkey – well, take a look at a monkey sometime! They barely even have lips!!! Thick lips are something that sets man off from the apes. But of course not many white people are going to notice that. Instead they just ASSUME the opposite to be true. Why is that? The same goes for broad noses. Etc.

    Again, my humble apologies. If you read more widely in my blog I think you will find that I do not think anything close to #1 and #2.

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  52. Abagond appreciates the beauty of black women in all it’s diversity, he celebrates it, that’s why I’m here. He doesn’t do so by bashing other races because its not about them.
    What’s the point of being sidetracked by topics on black men, unless its as their role in black womens’ lives? It wouldn’t take long to descend into drugs,gangs incarcerations, dead-beat dads etc, pretty negative stereotypes of black men etc I don’t think that black men feel alienated here, after all most of them are with black women anyway.
    How many sites out there do what he does, honestly?? This not that kind of forum.

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  53. It’s strange when White people have historically compared us to monkeys when
    they share same characteristics as monkeys as well such as
    1. thin lips

    2. short

    3.straight hair

    WHEN WAS THE LAST TIME ANY ONE OF US SAW A MONKEY WITH AN AFRO???

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  54. I FOR ONE ABAGOND, APPRECIATE YOUR BLOG. I understand what you are trying to say, and you are one brother who constantly gives us the “thumbs up.” Thanks for reminding me that i am beautiful too.

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  55. YOu just lost a reader and a future doctor who was going to try to elp the black community.

    I am marrying OUT of the black community. Not only have I not found this to be the case in my own life, but also not the case in the majority of black women whom I know.

    It benefits black women very little to stay true to the black community especially when our beauty is attacked by the men who we were created for.

    I will take my beauty, youth, intelligence, and affection and give it to a white man!

    Peace.

    :O

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  56. @ Jessica

    YOu just lost a reader and a future doctor who was going to try to elp the black community.

    I am marrying OUT of the black community. Not only have I not found this to be the case in my own life, but also not the case in the majority of black women whom I know.

    It benefits black women very little to stay true to the black community especially when our beauty is attacked by the men who we were created for.

    I will take my beauty, youth, intelligence, and affection and give it to a white man!

    Peace.
    ——————————————–

    I think you kind of missed the point these views were created by white people all these sterotypes and other stuff. What some people are commenting on is that white people aren’t the ones dressed up in those mammy outfits but black men but some white people still belive them

    Anyway you kind of sound like a troll and if you are see yourself out of the blog

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  57. u know what i’ve always wondered about the racist white folks who call bp monkeys? why is throughout history, there has been more mixing probably between white males and black females, the new world, lations were a blend of european males and females mixing with blacks, in african you’ve got whole islands of africans who are essentially the equivalent of creoles in america due to french colonizers sleeping with mostly black females, you’ve got colored populations throughout s.africa, you’ev got louisiana creoles in the US and the fact that most black americans are more likely to be mixed with european than native american and i can attest to that as I do have european ancestry and it shows through in many of us. so…if bp are monkey’s then what does it say about these racist people who mixed with us “monkies?” if that were true then that would be beastiality, you see what i’m saying, it doesn’t make any damn sense

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  58. That’s just it Peanut. The whole concept of racism is based on tons of contradictions and stuff that defies logic. :-(

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  59. I think this blog is taking an ugly turn. Too much negativity for me.

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  60. on Mon 7 Dec 2009 at 21:27:39 mynameismyname

    Black people do not look like primates in any way. The mere suggestion that they do is pure, spiteful anti-black racism. Point blank.

    A refreshingly honest comment above that said that seeing a black man (rapper/actor 50 Cent, in this case) simulate sex with a mixed-race Brazilian woman brought out the subconscious idea of “apes” shows you how unaccepted the union of black men with non-black women is. That poster, and many others, see non-black (or racially ambigious black) women with black men as “stepping down”. Very interesting.

    All in all, I agree with Nubiah and the other poster, why not explore how the effects of negrophobia affect how black men are viewed in interracial relationships? That OKCupid survey opened my eyes into seeing that black men are not the commodity that I had led to believe they were.

    Like


  61. OneBrownSnowPea says,
    I live in NYC. I’ve noticed white men (mostly young men) checking me out, but then they almost never approach, because there is still this stigma attached to blackness. But older white men over thirty act like your invisible.I think it is a generational thing. Older white men grew up during the 70’s when race relations weren’t good. We still aren’t to the promise land
    yet, but its getting better slowly.

    laromana says,
    OneBrownSnowPea,
    This is a FACT that I’ve observed firsthand. I was really surprised by how MOST younger WM (20’s-early 30’s) view BW in a MORE POSITIVE/LESS RACIST way than MOST OLDER WM.

    Chanya says:
    I laughed at this. Personally, I feel like many European women have a masculine or chiseled jaw. My exceptions would be Spaniard, Grecian and some Italian women.

    laromana says,
    The LIE/MYTH/STEREOTYPE that BW have “masculine jawlines” has NO basis in FACT. If you look at pics of many White actresses/supermodels it’s CLEAR that they are the ones who have MASCULINE JAWLINES.

    ANTI-BW RACISM/HATE (especially in America) is the real reason that all of these LIES/MYTHS/STEREOTYPES persist.

    Like


  62. laromana says,
    The LIE/MYTH/STEREOTYPE that BW have “masculine jawlines” has NO basis in FACT. If you look at pics of many White actresses/supermodels it’s CLEAR that they are the ones who have MASCULINE JAWLINES.

    I totally agree with your statment above,

    I have plenty non-black women, both face and body looking masculine

    the likeLady Gaga, kate Moss, Angelina jolie (I know plenty will disagree with this one, Cameroon Diaz, Heidi Klum,Madonna, Jennifer Aniston and the list can be (very)long……..

    Like


  63. on Mon 7 Dec 2009 at 23:24:23 Patricia Kayden

    Abagond:

    You’ve done several blogs on why White men (at least the US ones) are not attracted to/married to Black women.

    What about doing a blog on White men like Brian, who is head over heels in love with his Black wife, Ericka Dunlap.

    http://www.erickadunlap.net/WeddingBrideandGroom.html

    They just finished 3rd on the Amazing Race and I can honestly say that he appears to be a patient man. For anyone who watched the Amazing Race, Ericka was a handful, to say the least!

    Yes only a few White American men marry Black women, but I believe in looking at the positive instead of emphasizing the negative.

    In a country which is still coming out of a Jim Crow past, it is not surprising that racial barriers are still up in the marriage arena. I am sure things will change as Black women attend predominantly White institutions of higher learning and workplaces.

    Look at the stats for the UK – very encouraging for Black women.

    http://www.statistics.gov.uk/CCI/nugget.asp?ID=1090&Pos=3&ColRank=1&Rank=176

    Like


  64. Most whites who go tanning do that because they want a olive skin tone like Mediterranean whites not because they want to be black. I’ve seen some pretty blk girls but on average they are not as good looking as other races of women. Most of the pretty black girls have a significant percentage of European ancestry as well. I’ve rarely ever seen an African woman who was attractive. Also, pure BW don’t have the diverse looks that pure WW have. In fact, of all the races of women , ww have the most diverse looks.

    Like


  65. I agree with the person who said that morphing the First Lady’s face is a playground antic because there is nothing else they could criticize. They can’t criticize her intelligence because she’s smart,went to Harvard, etc. She has a great body so the only thing left was her face. Men, in general, do this. Ladies, have a guy ever try to talk to you and you turn him down, and then he yells, “You ain’t all that anyway.” I believe this is done out of weakness. The First Lady threatens white supremacy, especially where it concerns women, so therefore she was attacked.

    Like


  66. Pat,

    I respect your opinion, but now I am going to give you mine. I assume that you live here in America. Africa is the most diverse continent. I am quite sure you are aware that the media shows you what they want you to see. There are white people who I know of who used to think black people look a certain way because that’s all the media shows. Once they traveled outside of the US, they were shocked at the many different looks that black people have, and of course, questioned their race simply because black people are only supposed to look a certain way, right? Black Americans are only about 13% of the population in America, which means we are only a small fraction of all the black people worldwide, so if you live here in America, then of course you are going to assume that all black people look the same because that is all you are exposed to.
    Pat, I don’t want you to think I am attacking you because I am not. It just irks me when people think that black people only look a certain way.

    Like


  67. I don’t think “black” (many shades) women should be worried about what other people think. I don’t think First Lady Obama is worried. Also its quite interesting to see how some people are so obsessed with people that they claim are not attractive. If I thought other women looked better I’d devote a site to them instead of visiting Abagond’s. I think it says a lot that the most power these people assert are internet rantings. Hopefully in the real world “black” women (& men) just go where they are appreciated, and live happy lives :)

    Like


  68. I have read a number of these posts but not all due to time constraints but I must respond to Pat (post 69). I take particular exception to “I’ve rarely ever seen an African woman who was attractive”. This would be one of the most stupid statements I have ever read on this subject! Beauty is in the eye of the beholder! I have seen many, many, beautiful African women, from the African continent, African-American, African-Carribean etc, etc. Just click on the link “Black Beauty of the Day” and you will see myriads of very, very beautiful African and African decent women. I am married to a beautiful girl from North Africa (I am “white Australian”). My wife is beautiful BECAUSE SHE IS BLACK, not in spite of it. My wife is tall, slim, very dark and has, of course, African features. This is what makes her so beautiful! To many “white” people compare the looks of different races to the “white race”. This is crass stupidity. All races are beautiful in their own way. Learn to appreciate those individualities and beauties and you will have a much better outlook.

    Like


  69. Thank you, Graham. I believe to that people to tend to judge black women’s beauty in comparison to eurocentric standards, and if she is not close,then she is not considered attractive, even if she may be attractive in her own right.

    Like


  70. Pat’s post is a prime example of white supremacist thinking. Nonblack men in general along with nonblack women are truly threatened by Black womens’ beauty and grace. They had to resort to pseudoscience and ad hominem attacks in order to assure their insecure, fragile egos

    Abagond,

    Don’t stop what you are doing. Keep up the good work and don’t let the haters run you down.

    La Reyna

    Like


  71. “Most whites who go tanning do that because they want a olive skin tone like Mediterranean whites not because they want to be black.”

    oh really, cause i went to a mostly white school and i can’t tell you how many white females went tanning and actually came out DARKER, yes darker than I ( a black woman. I would also like to add that it doesn’t matter if someone was trying to look “mediterranean” although there are plenty of black women who are the same color as the “mediteranean,” women, the point is if they’re browning their skin to get darker, then obviously light skin isn’t the only and ultimate form of beauty and obviously brown can be beautiful too. Also, africans as a group are the most genetically diverse group on the planet, look it up. In terms of african women being ugly, you haven’t been around very many african women then, that’s all i have to say.

    Like


  72. @Pat:

    Most whites who go tanning do that because they want a olive skin tone like Mediterranean whites not because they want to be black.

    It’s a skin color most white people weren’t born with naturally so they go out of their way to achieve that sun tanned appearance. I’ve heard so many white people where I’m from saying they don’t like looking pasty white (their words not mine) and that brown skin looks healthier.

    I’ve seen some pretty blk girls but on average they are not as good looking as other races of women. Most of the pretty black girls have a significant percentage of European ancestry as well. I’ve rarely ever seen an African woman who was attractive.

    African women are like any other women. They can be quite beautiful and not-so-beautiful. White people do not have a monopoly on attractiveness.

    Also, pure BW don’t have the diverse looks that pure WW have. In fact, of all the races of women , ww have the most diverse looks.

    BW have quite the range of looks. As Shani mentioned earlier, the media only portrays stereotypical images they want you to see so you grow accustomed to seeing them. You many think BW are not diverse in appearance, but that is far from the reality.

    Like


  73. Ok, I may step on some toes, but I am going to say this anyway and hopefully, a mature discussion will develop out of it.

    I believe that the one drop rule has screwed up the minds of black and white people in the USA. Generally speaking, black people don’t appreciate their own unique beauty. Even though, the one drop rule was put in place because of white supremacy, I believe that if black people stop enforcing it, then black people’s stock would rise. Anybody can’t be white, even if they are part white; anybody can’t be Asian, but anybody can be black even if they have more of another race in them. Why is that? Our race shouldn’t be the dumping ground. This makes it easier to put mixed raced women in place of black beauty and makes the black woman invisible and then call black women ugly. I know some of you may already be aware of this.
    Now for those who may be thinking that well white people will see mixed raced people of the black and white union as black, well you can’t really control what they think, the same way they shouldn’t be able to control how we think. And furthermore I just cringe when some black people get upset when a mixed race person doesn’t identify as black. I believe that they should be able to choose to identify as they please and not have a certain race forced upon them.
    Why do you think it is so easy for the media to hype Halle B as the most beautiful black woman even though she is mixed. She is beautiful, but she is not black; she is mixed.

    I hope I didn’t get too far off topic.LOL

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  74. Pat, I beg to differ. I believe that is a stereotype some white people hold, that all black people look alike. This is not only racist but lacks so much logic. Mostly, everybody is mixed to a certain degree so there is no such thing as a “pure ww” or even a “pure bw”. And who do you consider African? Because guess what? Pure “Africans” can have skin as light as a WW.

    Like


  75. There are good looking people who fit into every racial bracket, the reality is we belong to the same freakin’ species so no matter how decent one tries to make oneself seem, dismissing an entire group as unattractive thinly veils ones insecurity, frustration and disdain.

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  76. i know abbi loves black women. he thinks the world of us but he knows me and he knows im going to put him in check from time to time.

    Like


  77. Why do people like Pat take such a narrow view of black women? Every ethnicity/race has beautiful and average women. Beauty does not belong to a certain group.

    Like


  78. I’m with Shani, but happen to think that White Supremacy runs deeper and harder than any one person can speak to. There are clear answers to the problem, but the healing has to begin.

    I put off discussing this topic in need of better clarification because I, like many others, was deeply troubled by this piece. I didn’t understand the point of talking to black beauty/pride without talking to the reasons behind the distinction between black women and every other woman on the planet. When the author says, “I don’t understand how white people can pass a beautiful black woman everyday and not…” I had to shake my head and questioned why I was reading this blog to begin with.

    Personally I think it goes beyond black women being ignored, or not considered and many times enters into harassment and vicious attacks. Anyone who’s gotten on Craigslist lately and typed in “black women” would know what I’m talking about. There are people out there who believe black women don’t deserve love and claim it’s for the reasons mentioned in this blog. But I personally don’t get the sense that what they’re talking about has anything to do with black women being truly ugly.

    I think most white men are taught to feel bad about their attraction to black women at such an early age, that later can’t seem to get over their own self hate and racism. I’ve noticed the ones that “just can’t seem to help themselves” throwing their attraction off as “strange” or “a fetish”. It’s as though they suppressed it to such a degree that it becomes hazardous to their health. Older white men are probably the worst. Waiting their entire lives, and after getting a financial foot into the ground and realizing the world doesn’t care what they deny themselves, they question why they’ve “denied themselves the experience”. The younger ones try to isolate their fetish to Halle, or Beyonce, and claim they are different black women. And the media helps them by going with their black pick of the year and denying the rest movie roles and opportunities.

    I would also note that most of my experiences with “ugly black women” ideals have usually come from white women, not men. It was the other girls that were vicious and harassing in my early years growing up- claiming I didn’t bath, my hair was greasy, and that my teeth reminded them of a horse- not the men! I wouldn’t say it had anything to do with truth telling or observations, but some deep seeded hatred they had for me for being black and being different from them. The boys didn’t care, they weren’t supposed to notice black women.

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  79. Mia,

    I can definitely relate to what you said. I’ve had experiences (though in the minority) where a white person (usually male) took one look at me and immediately hated me. I’ve never really had a problem with white females. Even though most white men that I come in contact with are very nice to me, I couldn’t help but wonder at the time, why did those few men act like they hated me just by the mere sight of me. I don’t want to come up with vain reasons, because as you said I think it goes far deeper than physical appearance.

    Like


  80. why aren’t my comments posting? abagond, i’m sorry i made bitter comments about you being jealous and bitter

    Like


  81. Shani,

    A few years back I went to a birthday party for a friend’s boss, and he invited some older white couples, who supposedly had too much to drink. At one point in the night most of us ladies were on the dance floor and these women started bumping into me with their chest. The party ended and these women were laughing claiming their “tits were bigger than mine” while their husbands apologized to me for their wives and their drunken behavior. I was the only black person there, and these were soccer moms of kids I knew from high school. I’m quite certain the points made in this blog were apart of their drunken jokes, but these points were a mere reinforcement of why I was not “pretty enough”, or worthy men’s attention, and why I deserved to be disrespected. Don’t get me wrong there are some good people out there, but the bad ones you never forget.

    I didn’t mean to imply that white men weren’t just as aggressively hateful, because they can be. It has nothing to do with black women’s looks or any of the points listed in this blog; and anyone claiming there could be “some” truth to “some” of the points and “not all” has some soul searching to do. IMO, Society uses black women to put aside some deep psychological issues with self-worth and they project those insecurities on black women hoping we won’t see through the crap. And how can we? Alot of times we’re trying to keep it together and keep moving on.

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  82. yeah most white males are okay, in my experience the worst that has happened is 1. simply being ignored like you’re wallpaper, this happened recently when this white guy acknowledged all my white girlfriends and seem to not see me or something (i had known this guy since HS, mind you) so that was rude
    2. This white man who i was talking to got pissed cuz i said he said something racist, then he accussed me of being racist cuz i said what he said was racist… stuff like that is what irks me more than anything, but other than that

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  83. this is why i need to stay off the internet cuz it just makes me bitter and angry. I can’t take all the venom directed at bw anymore, i really can’t. it depresses me, it really saddens me. Now i am ultra sensitive to the stuff people do to bw and sometimes its just depressing. its sad the way bw aren’t given any resepect, it really is. I don’t expect everyone to like or even be attracted to us…but dag, don’t say we’re ugly naturally, we’re not. sometimes i think bw are cursed or something, why is everything negative always put on us? we can’t win, no matter what we do…dag. I’m so sick of being depicted as the ugly black girl or the best, mammy friend to the white girl, its almost like this is being projected into reality. I swear, i think my friends think i’m a mammy.

    Like


  84. i agree with some of what abagond says but don’t agree how it came out. as far as white men passing black women, that’s not necessarily true because there are white men who do talk to beautiful women so you’ll be amazed. and i hate the whole black women looking like gorillas and whatnot. that rubbed me the wrong way because black women are beautiful. it seems that no matter what we say there are going to be ignorant, racist people thinking black women are ugly and nobody wants them because of our lips, bodies, skin, attitude, etc. but what hurts the most that it comes from your own people. and michelle is a beautiful woman who represents a classy black women, not the ones the media and sometimes black people love to glorify. i know that you care about black women abagond but it seems the way you said it just came off as if black women are supposed to be bad people that no one wants to be around. why can’t black women can be look as human beings and not some damn animals? we have feelings like everybody else but it seems a lot of people don’t care about that. why not get to know us before you judge us as if we’re all the same? because we’re not.

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  85. “we have feelings like everybody else but it seems a lot of people don’t care about that. ”
    i know i am so sick of people treating us any old way and acting like we’re not humans or something. if one more non-black male asks what color it is down there…i’m going to explode. i can’t take it.what do people want us to do, stay in a house in a corner and die or what??? does our mere presence bother people that much? damn sometimes i wonder how different my life would be if i wasn’t a bw.

    Like


  86. i am curious, i would like to know has anyone ever had anything positive said to them as it pertains to their being a black woman? has anyone ever genuinely felt that they’re black womanliness was being praised and not simply just tolerated?? i’ve had some “haha,” moments as a black woman, but never and i mean never in my life has non-black person or even a black male these days praised my black womanliness, its always either been ignored or tolerated, so i’d like to know.

    Like


  87. Peanut,

    To anwser your question, all races have complimented by looks. I wear my hair natural and I get mostly compliments from white people. Also when I was living in SC, I went to this Mary Kay party where I was the only black woman and all the other women complimented my lips as we were trying on lipstick, but those compliments were just that, compliments. They never related it to me being black, but that should be a good thing, right? A woman wants to be seen as desirable because she’s desirable, not because she’s of a certain race. And no black woman wants to hear, “Oh you’re pretty for a black girl.”

    To Mia,
    What happened to you on the dance floor should have given you an ego boost. The sight of you alone obviously brought out their insecurities that they felt the need to that. Oh and their husbands were probably checking you out.

    Like


  88. Mia said:

    “. It has nothing to do with black women’s looks or any of the points listed in this blog; and anyone claiming there could be “some” truth to “some” of the points and “not all” has some soul searching to do. IMO, Society uses black women to put aside some deep psychological issues with self-worth and they project those insecurities on black women …”

    And that has nothing to do with racism or even envy?

    Racism grew out of the abusive relationship that whites had (and still have to a lesser degree) with blacks. One of the thought patterns of an abusive relationship – and which is still there in white thinking – is to make yourself feel good by tearing others down – MOST ESPECIALLY when you fear they are better than you.

    Racism is a self-delusional thought pattern whites use to feel good about themselves. All this stuff about gorillas and mannish black women comes out of their sick, ugly past. It has nothing to do with how black women truly are and everything to do with a sickness in the souls of white people.

    I used to think racism was a matter of ignorance or a bad upbringing. It is worse than that. More here:

    https://abagond.wordpress.com/2009/09/26/what-this-blog-has-taught-me-about-white-people/

    Like


  89. Instead of focusing on White men how about doing a blog about what MEN like in Black women?

    Like


  90. White men are not the only dating choices for Black women.

    Like


  91. Pat Says:
    “Most whites who go tanning do that because they want a olive skin tone like Mediterranean whites not because they want to be black.”

    True enough!

    Pat Says:
    “I’ve seen some pretty blk girls but on average they are not as good looking as other races of women. Most of the pretty black girls have a significant percentage of European ancestry as well.”

    You know this how exactly!? Have you ever been to Africa!

    Pat Says:
    “I’ve rarely ever seen an African woman who was attractive. Also, pure BW don’t have the diverse looks that pure WW have. In fact, of all the races of women , ww have the most diverse looks.”

    That’s questionable. Also white people have far less genetic diversity than black people!
    Have you seen slavic women. Moat of them look the same!
    Your just using the stereotype of all non-whites look alike! Pathetic!

    Like


  92. Abagond says:
    “And that has nothing to do with racism or even envy?

    Racism is a self-delusional thought pattern whites use to feel good about themselves. All this stuff about gorillas and mannish black women comes out of their sick, ugly past. It has nothing to do with how black women truly are and everything to do with a sickness in the souls of white people.”

    I do agree with this, and I’m not challenging that racism is the root of it all. But once again I was addressing the confusing way in which the blog asserted “Why black women are seen as ugly.” Racism and envy? Sure, why not? I understand you had some difficulties with this piece, but when I initially read it, I wasn’t hearing your point and was distracted by the points you were making about black women’s features. I was really confused, even angry, and found myself interjecting things into the blog that weren’t there- things from my past, present, etc.

    I agree with some of the conclusions Shani came to, but have come to a defensive place about black women embracing their beauty. That’s not easy when racism dresses itself up in the form of teachers, friends, co-workers, bosses, people who feel they care about you.

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  93. may i just point of that as a brown skinned mixed black person that we do not get any more special treatment by white people. I was teased by both white boys are girls and when i was younger now and then. I have since got braces and my hair and skin is better, so i now look better.

    However i have an incling that whilst on the surface the teasing might seem like it could be directed to anyone, that i was scapegoated because i’m not white, as i was always felt that people took more notice of me. Black people have always been more positive about my looks and complimented me. However white people and a couple of mixed boys that act white have not been so kind in the past.

    I think because i am not a typical cookie cutter beauty or look plain like gwyneth paltrow that has made me a threat to some. I have girls turn from saying they think i’m pretty, to putting me down, which shows jealousy must have been involved.

    Some of the most beautiful women like jessica alba, angelina jolie, eva mendes and meagan good have said they have been teased for their looks in the past. But what do these women have in common non look like kate hudson or gwyneth paltrow. they are different beauties that stand out more, which is perhaps why they have been teased.

    Despite the bullying in the past i am still proud that I stand out in a crowd and have had enough people tell me that i am attractive that i can ignore silly little insults.

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  94. mia- I am however suprised that you have had most bad experiences just with white women. the taunts i have had in the past started with a white guy. as much as people say boys are less bitchy, they can be pretty cruel when it comes to looks. Black men have always been kinder about my looks and i have a few white men call me attractive/beautiful so everyone is different. But i think some white boys in the past have put me down to hide any audacity that they could be attracted to a black girl.

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  95. I know I may receive alot of flack for this, so I will just say it. In my opinion, it doesn’t matter to me what people think of me. I know who my creator is and as long as I am beautiful to myself and to my husband, that’s all that matters. I can deal with other races saying that Black women ( to them) aren’t attractive. What BOTHERS me is these SO CALLED entertainers that demean Black women on a daily basis, and these women are just as much to blame. We should not look for the world to accept or validate us. Stop supporting these rappers/singers with these demeaning lyrics. That’s not ART. Boycott BET, HELL MTV too. Stop supporting BLACK MARKET, BOOTLEG, whatever you want to call it. We must set better examples for ourselves. I know I got off subject here, but I’m sick of people complaining. We were a people who stood for something, and now, we talk about, but we don’t do anything about it.–But back to the topic at hand here, It’s just more hurtful coming from a Black man, when he demeans a Black woman. For that Black man who does that, I feel sorry for you. WE MUST EMBRACE OURSELVES, OUR BEAUTY, AND OUR CHARACTER. Accept who you are, stop with the blue contact, SLUTTY BLOND WEAVES. Stop it. Be the best Black woman you can be, take care of yourself, treat yourself well, nurture your soul, and carry yourself with the highest esteem. Then no, one can’t help but to notice you. Everyone notices a glowing woman.

    Like


  96. Marine2010,

    I co-sign your comment #99 and like u I would also prefer a post about what Men like in Black Women.

    Like


  97. nubiahbella Says:

    Marine2010,

    I co-sign your comment #99 and like u I would also prefer a post about what Men like in Black Women.
    ——————————————–

    I’m getting a little depressed with all this ugly Black women this and what they don’t like about us that. Tell me something good, tell me how ya like it yeah!

    Like


  98. HERE YA GO!

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  99. I know I may receive alot of flack for this, so I will just say it. In my opinion, it doesn’t matter to me what people think of me. I know who my creator is and as long as I am beautiful to myself and to my husband, that’s all that matters.

    Thank you Phoenix. I guess because I’m an “oldhead,” I don’t really care what people think about me. God loves and accepts me, and that’s all that matters.

    As for black women looking like men — I always thought that Uma Thurman, horseface Sarah Jessica Parker, and Darryl Hannah are mannish-looking but people say they are beautiful because they are blonde. And there are plenty of monkey-looking white people (Joe Piscipo, the late George Burns), etc.

    Like



  100. uplifting video about black women.

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  101. on Wed 9 Dec 2009 at 01:04:11 Are y'all really that dumb?

    The author isn’t saying BW look like monkeys. He is saying that’s how white people see them.

    Like


  102. Are y’all really that dumb?

    Who cares what White people think, especially if it’s negative. Let’s talk love and romance for a chance.

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  103. I Have to agree….But number 7 should have been number 1.

    Like


  104. I’ve seen plenty of masculine looking White, Asian and Hispanic women. That’s just the way it is, there’s masculine and feminine features in women of all races. We all don’t have to look either way. Some men love masculine looking women.

    Like


  105. on Fri 1 Jan 2010 at 14:41:37 CandiedChestnut

    I think black women should stop trying to be accepted by others and start living to please themselves. You can’t change people’s opinions of you. All you should aim to do is be attractive to yourself, only then you will be happy.

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  106. Lies, lies, and more lies. In fact the opposite is true: White men find Black women extremely attractive but many are racist and will not seriously date a Black woman because of racism and nothing else. I am a Black woman and I constantly get approached by White men. It is always done in a very private way, not at all like the way a Black man would approach me. There are many in our society who want Black women to “think” that White men are not attracted to them: There seems to be a vested interest in manipulating the self -esteem of Black women. We should ask ourselves why. I encourage all sisters everywhere to not fall for this because it is just racism at work. Somebody has to be on bottom and apparently many have convinced themselves that that somebody should be us. Business as usual.

    Like


  107. Chris says,
    Lies, lies, and more lies. In fact the opposite is true: White men find Black women extremely attractive but many are racist and will not seriously date a Black woman because of racism and nothing else. I am a Black woman and I constantly get approached by White men.

    laromana says,
    I agree, from personal experience, that this is true but I feel that ANTI-BW RACIST WM/NON-BM who “are ATTRACTED to BW” but won’t SERIOUSLY DATE and/or MARRY them are an INSULT to the HUMANITY, DIGNITY, and FEMININITY of BW.

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  108. I am late to the party but I can’t help but wonder something. I’ve read where white guys online say that their fathers told them to never mess with a black woman for whatever reason. My question has always been, if we are so ugly, and naturally repulsive, why is a warning required??

    You warn your kids agains poisonous berries because, hell, they are attractive. You don’t have to warn them not to eat crap (if you know what I mean) unless they are “special.” Jus’ saying. There’s just something between the lines there.

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  109. Yolanda said “You warn your kids agains poisonous berries because, hell, they are attractive. You don’t have to warn them not to eat crap (if you know what I mean) unless they are “special.” Jus’ saying. There’s just something between the lines there.”

    I agree. If we are so repulsive and ape-like, with our masculine muscles, wide jaws and whatever other negative crap someone wants to put on the pile of deception, then why is a warning required? Wouldn’t women who are that unattractive be automatice men-repellants? In a world where men’s attraction to women is mostly shallow end visibility? Why would there need to be so much negative PR put out by dads and moms? Huh?

    Truth: Men want what they can’t have, and when they still can’t get it, the “sour grapes” syndrome takes over.

    Beautiful black women, don’t accept that stupidity for anything except stupidity. It’s GAME. Clearly, black women provide the original fabric that others seek to copy. Period. End of story. Many people of all races are waking up to this fact every day, and those who haven’t will.

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  110. I understand what abagond was doing with this post. Now, let’s see how many peole understand what I’m doing with my response. I could post that many black women don’t date white men because they see them as:

    1. Having a very small male reproductive organ/appendage.

    2. Balding at an amazing rate, much earlier than men of other races.

    3. Having hair that grows profusely on back (sort of ape-like).

    4. Having either very flat Glutemous maximus muscle, or no ass at all.

    5. Being cowardly, afraid and unlikely to express an opinion other than the one held by other men of his ilk.

    6. Being greedy, insecure, using war and weapons of war to assert race superiority.

    7. Having no genuine compassion for anyone. Only pretending to care about others when media/TV is present, or when they see an opportunity to accomplish #6.

    Now. Anyone can come up with a repulsive list. And some of the items might even have a modicum of truth inserted.

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  111. Black women sure do get a lot of attention for being so ugly. (sarcasm)

    Think about when you were in school. All the attractive good looking girls were talked about right? Whether the comments were good or bad, the point is they were talked about or given attention. Now think about all the girls who were considered “unattractive”. Did anyone pay them attention?

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  112. Black men have always loved black women’s distinctive physical features. I think everybody is very aware of this fact. Even when black men run away from home for sex with ‘exotic’ women you’ll usually find them in the arms of some moreno latina dominicana or brazillian with obvious African ancestry. Black men complain about black women in their own countries and then run away… to more black women. Just like how a lot of white American men complain about (white) American women and then go after Russian or Eastern European women.

    White men also like to sleep with black women and this can also be proven beyond a reasonable doubt. Lady’s and gentlemen of the jury, we have DNA evidence to prove these allegations. If you look all up and down the Western Hemisphere you will find many, many people with mixed African and European ancestry. A good proportion of the Black Americans (I’d say the majority), who I see clearly have European physical features. I would never mistake Jay-Z, Malcolm X, Beyonce, Colin Powell, Snoop Dogg, Denzel Washington, OJ Simpson, (etc) for black Africans. Black people acquired European features from white men having sex with black women since the days of slavery. It certainly wasn’t black men with white women, because black men wouldn’t have gotten anywhere within a mile of a white woman’s cookie-jar without a mob of crazed foaming-at-the-mouth white rabble lynching them. Even the eminent racist segregationist senator Strom Thurmond couldn’t resist “integrating” his willie lynch with his 13-year old black maid and producing an illegitimate child.

    So, in the words of Public Enemy, don’t, don’t, don’t, don’t believe the hype.

    *Its a bird, its a plane… its… its… captain save em all day*

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  113. PowerFigure

    CapSavM, you said:

    “White men also like to sleep with black women and this can also be proven beyond a reasonable doubt. Lady’s and gentlemen of the jury, we have DNA evidence to prove these allegations.”

    You are so right. How dare anyone believe the list at the top of these posts. White men have always desired black women, they just don’t want to admit it, and they don’t want to “do it in the daylight.” When one of them finally does, he is ostracized by the rest. Why, he may even have to become a black man, as did my grandmother’s father. He married my great grandmother and was told by his family that he was now a black man (this was in the late 1800s). My family bloodline is mixed indeed, and I am a product of all that.

    SOME NON-BLACK MEN REALLY DO LOVE BLACK WOMEN–trust me. Most black Americans’ DNA provides all the evidence needed to support this hypothesis. The fact that many white men don’t want to date black women openly is more a testament to cowardice on their part, than it is to any list of “repugnant” features possessed by black women. It also does not change the fact they believe black is beautiful.

    THE TRUTH WILL SET YOU FREE.

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  114. I think WASP North American [frat boy] males have a very NARROW definition of female beauty–skinny, tanned, blonde, under 30. They can’t appreciate anything else.

    For whatever reason, maybe because of Africa’s matriarchal culture, black men like powerful black women. White men like ‘weak’ females; case in point, their ‘fetish’ about Asian females and their ‘submissive’ Geisha ways.
    Black men don’t want women they can subjugate. White men do.

    Many white men have been brainwashed to think of ‘Paris Hilton’ types as the epitome of beauty.

    This is not a common attitude in European white men, by the way. They love buxom women, raven-haired women, etc

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  115. I think WASP North American [frat boy] males have a very NARROW definition of female beauty–skinny, tanned, blonde, under 30. They can’t appreciate anything else.

    Truth. And then they think this is somehow supposed to be some universal standard of beauty.

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  116. ^^^
    Very true.

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  117. I am not sure that black women are seen as ugly. But whites often don’t see them as potential dating/marriage material. Which has nothing to do with their alleged “unattractiveness”. Those who are racists try to hide their racist thinking behind “rational” debate (black women are not feminine, black men prefer to date their own race, so why wouldn’t we, etc etc).

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  118. Mell said: “I think WASP North American [frat boy] males have a very NARROW definition of female beauty–skinny, tanned, blonde, under 30. They can’t appreciate anything else.”

    While this statement is probably true, I still think it reaffirms the idea that white men see black women as ugly, and that is the idea that I believe is false.

    They may prefer to date and to marry “submissive” types, as Mell talked about, but I agree with what Mira said as well: “Those who are racists try to hide their racist thinking behind “rational” debate (black women are not feminine, black men prefer to date their own race, so why wouldn’t we, etc etc).”

    No matter how “irrational” their “rational” debate is, racism is a form of cowardice. It is a dulusional breed of fear, that must have a “cloaking device.” Hence, the idea that they don’t or cannot love black women because, let me see, I know, hey, all black women are ugly!

    I think we also need to remember that black women, like women of all races, prefer men who can “adore” them. It’s not just white men not choosing black women, it is also black women not choosing white men. While many of us (black women) may be open to the idea of dating white men, the reality is most of know that white men, in general, are not strong enough psychologically to handle a serious relationship with, and are not capable of “adoring” a strong black woman.

    Don’t get me wrong. I know this does not apply to all white men. But still, it is a rare white male “gem” who possesses all the psychological strength required to love and adore a strong black woman.

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  119. I’m proud to say I have never been a John Mayer fan, and I’m not even open to the idea of listening to anything he’s ever done or will do now.

    He thinks he’s so cool that it’s now okay for him to be a despicable racist uttering the most vile and stupid racist comments. Let me put any white man who may read my posts on notice: You can never hide “racism” under the guise of being cool, and no one is dumb enough to think that you are so high above everyone else, that you can be openly racist and no one is going to call you on it.

    This is what I was referring to in one of my previous posts when I said it is rare that you will find a white man who is psychologically strong enough to handle dating a strong black woman. This idiot thinks he has said something in his comments about Kerry Washington that will make black women think he is cool, when in actuality, his comments should make any woman of any race think that he needs some serious psychotherapy. What is his problem? What kind of idiot opens his mouth and allows this kind of crap/brain fart to escape?

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  120. “SOME NON-BLACK MEN REALLY DO LOVE BLACK WOMEN–trust me. Most black Americans’ DNA provides all the evidence needed to support this hypothesis. The fact that many white men don’t want to date black women openly is more a testament to cowardice on their part, than it is to any list of “repugnant” features possessed by black women. It also does not change the fact they believe black is beautiful.

    THE TRUTH WILL SET YOU FREE.”

    Response: with all due respect, i think slave owners probably would have raped any woman they owned, whether they be black,white or asian. The point is men are men and men rape women who they have complete power over. Just look at the women who are routinely raped in prison by prison guards and most of them are not black prison guards either. If bw were slaves to any man at some point I guarentee someone’s gonna get raped because that’s just something that ignorant, stupid, sexist men do…

    Also people can say all they want but anyday biology will trump sociology anyday. People can huff and puff about having racial preferences in females and all this stuff, but beauty and race are both social constructs. You take a male of any one race and put him alone on an island with a reasonably average looking woman (meaning all her limbs are in tact she’s fully functional) of any other race and just see what happens…

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  121. Hi Peanut. You said: “with all due respect, i think slave owners probably would have raped any woman they owned, whether they be black,white or asian. The point is men are men and men rape women who they have complete power over.”

    Just to be clear, I was not referring to the institution of slavery in my post. I was referring more to what I had said in a prior post, where I stated that my great grandfather was a white man, in Mississippi, who fell in love with my great grandmother, and, at the risk of being ostracized from his family, he married the woman he loved. They told him he had now become a black man.

    Not all of our “interracial” DNA came from rape. Some of it actually came from love. Your assumption, however, sounds as though you are also buying into the idea that white men can’t love black women because we are just too ugly, but they can rape them, because they’ll rape anything or anyone who can’t get away from them.

    While there is most likely a lot of truth in what you said, I had to let you know that that is not what I was referring to in my post. With all due respect, of course. : )

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  122. CptSaveM: “Black people acquired European features from white men having sex with black women since the days of slavery. It certainly wasn’t black men with white women, because black men wouldn’t have gotten anywhere within a mile of a white woman’s cookie-jar without a mob of crazed foaming-at-the-mouth white rabble lynching them.”

    It’s a popular misconception that during the slavery era black men had access to white women. In actuality there were many instances of black male and white female unions (and even marriages). Frequently the white woman in question was poor and/or an indentured servant. The children produced from these unions accounted for a sizeable percentage of the “Free People of Color” and often took their mother’s surname.

    Many of the types of lynchings you mentioned actually occurred in the decades following Emancipation.

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  123. on Wed 17 Feb 2010 at 20:50:54 mynameismyname

    ^^^

    Very true.

    Much of the miscegenation that occurred during slavery was consensual, as well.

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  124. @Paisely & myname, look up “Estimating African American Admixture Proportions by Use of Population-
    Specific Alleles” in The American Journal of Human Genetics (December 1998):

    “We analyzed the European genetic contribution to 10
    populations of African descent in the United States
    …and in Jamaica…. Results indicate a sex biased gene flow from Europeans, the male contribution being substantially greater than the female contribution.”

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1377655/

    Similar studies in done in Brazil have had similar results. Both “black” and “white” Brazilians have much more paternal European DNA than maternal.

    I’m aware of the records of black men with white wives or lovers in the slave era. But black men with access to white women were the exception and white men with black women was the rule.

    It would be hard to know for sure exactly how much sex was consensual and how much was rape. But given the racist attitudes and power imbalance I would guess they did do a lot of raping.

    Rape has always been a traditional part of warfare. There were lots of reports of mass rapes during World War II, for example. Similarities between the rapist soldiers and the slaveowners? No consequences for rape, racial/ethnic/cultural/national hatred for the other group, unlimited access to their women, and a big power imbalance.

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  125. I agree with CandiedChestnut, I think black women should concern themselves with being attractive to themselves. We should concentrate on being healthy, on having healthy, thick, hair( not necessarily straight hair), obtaining a good education, surrounding ourselves with loving, positive people, and having a good relationship with God. If God has blessed you with a roof over your head, food on the table, loving friends, and good health, then forget what other people have to say. Many people are sadistic. They need to put down other people to feel good about themselves. Many people have a vested interest in maintaining negatives attitudes about black people, black women in particular. As long as we are at the bottom, some feel they are at the top. Don’t listen to them. Black women are beautiful. They know it. They just don’t want YOU to know. If black people were to trully be free in their minds, they would make better decisions and become even more successful than they are already. Some people don’t want this. They want you to be insecure, and insecurity forces you into a rut. So it is important to fight self hatred and promote self love. No matter what anyone has to say. People will lie to you all the time. Just realize that it is just that, a lie.

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  126. Right on Jeri :)

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  127. I agree 100%.

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  128. I would never mistake Jay-Z, Malcolm X, Beyonce, Colin Powell, Snoop Dogg, Denzel Washington, OJ Simpson, (etc) for black Africans.

    If you really think that there are no black Africans that look like these people, you need to take a trip there. Stat. This is pure ignorance.

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  129. Good points, all. Beauty is and always will be in the eyes of the beholder. We can look at each other all day and all night saying “you’re ugly,” “no you’re ugly,” and that would not prove or solve anything.

    I think women in general, and not just black women, need to take Jeri’s advice. Any society or people who place too much emphasis on physical beauty will lose sight of things that are much more important.

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  130. times are changing, in England 30% of black women are with white men, im one of those women, i’ve dated several white men, all serious relationships

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  131. Old habits die hard. In the U.S., especially in the south, it’s not that easy to let go of the past. Especially when there is still a lot of overt and covert racism, institutionalized and day-to-day, being practiced subtly and not so subtly.

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  132. I’m sick of people worshipping white men… they’re men and I’m really tired of people considering being able to obtain a white man as the epitome of accomplishment for a bw. For that matter I’m sick of being able to obtain a man being considered the epitome of accomplishment for blackwomen. If I see one more news segment on how single bw supposedly are I’m going to scream…i’m tired of it. Leave bw in peace for once. If people dont’ want ot look at our “ugly” african faces, then I’d appreciate it if they’d leave us the heck alone. Stay out of africa, stop stealing our resources, stop coming to bw for easy sex, stop asking us to take care of your kids and leave us in peace…its that simple

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  133. Maybe this string has run its course. Black women, be strong.

    You know you’re beautiful and you understand that it really doesn’t matter what anyone else thinks. It’s what you think of you that matters the most.

    Never forget that.

    I am sure you don’t want someone who doesn’t think of you as beautiful, so it really doesn’t matter what some white men think of black women. The man, black, white, yellow, brown or red, who does see you as beautiful will find his way to you one day. So just keep the faith, stay beautiful, and stay true to who you are. Don’t let anyone’s opinion change who you are. If you’re like me, you don’t want any man of any race who, for whatever reason, cannot see or appreciate your inner and outer beauty.

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  134. @Natasha “If you really think that there are no black Africans that look like these people, you need to take a trip there. Stat. This is pure ignorance.”

    Got a plane ticket? I was referring to black Africans from the regions where African-Americans’ ancestors originated. West Africa and West Central Africa. No, I’ve never been to Africa. But based on West Africans I see in real life or in pictures and TV, many black Americans have more European features. Many Jamaicans, West Indians, Haitians, black Cubans and some Brazilians could pass for West Africans. Many United States blacks couldn’t- at least not many of the famous ones. I can guarantee I would easily pick out Snoop Dogg, Jay-Z, (etc) in a crowd in Ghana, Senegal, Nigeria or Democratic Republic of Congo.

    Second point: black women begging for approval from white men is kind of corny. But I don’t really care what women do. I let women go on with their f-d up ways because a chick is a chick. If I did care I’d end up like the corny insecure white sissy-boys who cry like girls when white chicks sleep with black men.

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  135. Cpt,

    Got a plane ticket?
    Got $3,000 to spare? :)

    I was referring to black Africans from the regions where African-Americans’ ancestors originated. West Africa and West Central Africa.

    I knew that. I’ve heard others say this before.

    No, I’ve never been to Africa. But based on West Africans I see in real life or in pictures and TV, many black Americans have more European features.

    Take a trip. I’m very serious. I think on TV and in pictures they purposely try to show what they believe are “true Africans,” and thus why you have the idea you do. Many African-Americans have this view, and I find it quite interesting as a person who has lived amongst W. Africans my entire life.

    Many Jamaicans, West Indians, Haitians, black Cubans and some Brazilians could pass for West Africans. Many United States blacks couldn’t- at least not many of the famous ones. I can guarantee I would easily pick out Snoop Dogg, Jay-Z, (etc) in a crowd in Ghana, Senegal, Nigeria or Democratic Republic of Congo.

    Since when does Jay-Z, of all people, have “European” features? My W. African relatives have features much smaller than his. I REALLY doubt you would be able to pick someone like him out. Or are you referring to his skin color? Again, many W. Africans are of his complexion, or lighter. Of course there are darker W. Africans, but making it seem like he would be an anomaly is laughable. Especially if you were in certain parts of the Congo or Nigeria. And someone like Snood Dogg would fit right in.

    See the post “Melyssa Ford” for more info (and pictures) on this topic.

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  136. Cpt Second point: “black women begging for approval from white men is kind of corny. But I don’t really care what women do. I let women go on with their f-d up ways because a chick is a chick. If I did care I’d end up like the corny insecure white sissy-boys who cry like girls when white chicks sleep with black men.”

    Amen Cpt. I agree, buy would use the word “wack” in place of “corny.” : )

    I would rather live single and happy the rest of my life than to spend one second agonizing over who does or does not think I’m ugly. I know that–as a race, black women are beautiful, and I just want all of us to remember that we have stood strong through waaaay too much stuff, even after standing strong through hundreds of years of slavery, then a century of its aftermath which, in many ways, was just as bad or worse in some cases.

    We have been too tough, too strong, too resilient for too long, to get to 2010 and turn into blithering babies because some white man thinks we are ugly. Please.

    Let us leave that sad man who doesn’t know the meaning of the world “beauty” to his own little thoughts, whatever they may be. He is entitled to his thoughts/opinions, whatever they may be, however small. He will live a small life. Let him.

    As long as we don’t allow such thoughts/opinions to mess with our minds, we’ll be just fine. It’s when you let that stuff mess with how you see yourself that you weaken your own mind. Noone can take your strength away from you, you have to give it away.

    Don’t let them in, don’t let them win. Stay strong. We’ve withstood much “bigger” stuff from them for centuries. “Lest we forget.”

    Be inspired by our strength, our history. Here are a few links to my heroines, Harriet Tubman and Sojourner Truth.

    http://www.harriettubmanbiography.com/
    http://womenshistory.about.com/od/sojournertruth/a/sojourner_truth_bio.htm

    These women are my heroes. They didn’t care what anybody said about them, and what somebody thought about their looks wasn’t even a blimp on their radar screens. They had work to do, and they had to be strong and even pillars of strength to do it. This is black history month, for God’s sake. I am praying there is not a black woman alive who is truly worried about what some lilly livered white man thinks about how she looks. The white men who believe in us and in our beauty are the only ones good enough to be in our company anyway.

    Please. People have been lying about us since time immemorial. If you read the famous “Ain’t I a Woman” speech given by Sojourner Truth, you’ll most likely find it written in “Negro dialect.” The truth about Sojourner (Isabella Baumfree) is that she was born and raised in New York, spoke only Dutch until she was sold at age nine. After that, she spoke English, and not in the dialect of the speech. That was done later, by someone, for “effect.”

    But my point is, many people are intimidated by ALL THE STRENGTH we represent. They have to do something to try and take us down, and they know they have to go “through the mind” to do that.

    Don’t let them win.

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  137. From what i’ve seen all my life, black women are more beautiful, they come in good figures and shapes..

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  138. Black girls is beautiful…….i cab argue that in any court

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  139. Agagond, I respect your effort to make ppl see with eyes uncloudy, but this just won’t happen. Truth is white womans know they have no asset. Black women come with everything. Body , looks and diversity. Ww get tans to look black. Not to have go olive look. Everything a ww get is to look more black. First breast implants, butt injections, botots, check and face lift. Need I say more.

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  140. I appreciate your efforts to at least see it from the white perspective (that list you provided) but your conclusions are wrong. In fact, one of them is common among non-white writers who aren’t as familiar with white people as they think.

    Tanning does NOT stem out of a desire to emulate black features. It does not stem out of contact with blacks either.
    Tanning became popular during the neo-classical movement in Germany this also inspired the Christian-Athlete movement in the U.S. and has been kept alive through pop culture ever since. There’s been a trend against tanning in the last 10 years which has begun to sink in permanently among young, hip white women. That of course, is because skin cancer awareness campaigns have done an excellent job of making “pale the new tan” i.e. cool and acceptable.

    I’ve also seen some commenters saying that white women with black features are celebrated—how about black women with white features?

    Also, I notice the old canard “white women don’t like booty/can’t handle curves” which is thrown out there by African Americans who don’t know whites as much as they think they do. This comes from pop-media trends that came out of the 60- to late 90’s dominance of fashion designers.

    Fashion designers are/were mostly gay men. They do not know what straight white men want to see for the most part. If you look back to the 50’s and earlier, female stars normally athletic dancers or busty and curvy. Look at the pinup girls mostly white American men would paint on the side of their bomber planes in WWII–they were curvy. One media outlet that shows what straight white men want to see is, like it or not, pornography. The top white female pornstars have been curvy, classically caucasian white females with big boobs (real or not) and thick ass and thighs. In fact there’s so much cross over appeal, that some of these women are also favored by black men. *Lisa Ann* is an example of this.

    Also your conclusion, that ‘it’s just racism’ is not satisfactory. You select the most extreme conclusion, yet don’t elaborate. That doesn’t live up to the introduction and body of your post, and comes across as lazy, maybe even denial.

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  141. Tommy,

    It’s not that white women “can’t handle curves”. But the beauty standards are different these days. Yes, we can blame it on the fashion designers, but I don’t think it has anything to do with black men or women. It’s a white people’s thing. White beauty standards praise skinny look with no curves (except for breasts). Meaning: no round hips, no butt. End of story. Someone’s personal preferences are not important here; it’s not the secret this is today’s white beauty standard. I am not saying it doesn’t affect black people (black females in particular), because there are many curvy black women who definitely don’t fit this beauty standard. But it’s not something black people made up. It’s real and it’s out there.

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  142. Most peole here know how I feel about this.Im almost as upset as Peanut.

    I pity people that think black woman arnt beautiful.

    I absolutly dont understand any of the stereotypes.

    Apes? As people pointed out, the hair and lips are more white features and lots of monkeys and chimps have white skin.

    Muscleled? My god, you dont get any more muscle than in womans sprints and beleive me, when olympics come around I am all eyes in front of the tv to watch the womens sprint events because I know some of the most drop dead gorgeous black women are going to be participating.

    Go see the Alvyn Aily dance company or Dance Theatre of Harlem ( are they still around?)

    I wish there was some way I could be a mirror on here for the black women who have felt in any way bad about these stereotypes. Because I would reflect great beauty.I could tell you about many black woman who are much older who I think are beautiful, Lena Horne, Elza Soares, Dianne Carrol,the wife of Jackie Robinson was extra specialy beautiful to me, my mother in law, the list is enormas.

    You all know what the deal is and more power to you all for looking it in the eye and seeing it for what it is…

    Black women are incredibly beautiful

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  143. on Wed 10 Mar 2010 at 00:24:58 Ó Dochartaigh

    Sinaya

    “Everything a ww get is to look more black. First breast implants, butt injections, botots, check and face lift. Need I say more.”

    That’s not stereotyping at all LOL. 1. There are plenty of white women with naturally large breast, so I don’t think getting breast implants is trying copy black women. 2. Butt injections, maybe but there are plenty of Latin and Mediterranean women with big butts and thighs. 3. Botocks and face lift, please I have seen plenty of black women with saggy faces, all people start to sag with age, that is not a color thing it is a youth/age thing.

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  144. on Wed 10 Mar 2010 at 00:26:13 Ó Dochartaigh

    To B.R.

    I agree, black women are incredibly beautiful.

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  145. Mira,

    White beauty standards praise skinny look with no curves (except for breasts).

    Exactly. White people seem to confuse big breasts/implants with curviness.

    Tommy brought up women in pornagraphy as revealing what white men are really attracted to. Good point. Let’s have a look…

    Who are the current top five grossing pornstars (according to pornstaremart.com)? Jesse Jane, Jenna Jameson, Jessica Drake, Julia Ann, and Asia Carrera. These women are all very similar in appearance. The first three are thin blondes with implants and the fourth is an averaged-sized blonde with implants. Only the last could be called thick in any sense. According to sales, what most white men are really attracted to is white women that are blonde, thin, and busty. Which could’ve been figured out without analyzing pornstars, and which abagond has already stated on this very blog.

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  146. Exactly. While big breasts do count as curves (at least in my book), they are naturally accompanied by round hips and big butt. Which mean that women with naturally big breasts are usually thick in overall, not skinny. It’s very rare for a woman to be skinny with big breasts.

    Yes, white men do like big breasts, that’s not a secret. But it doesn’t change the fact they want women to be skinny otherwise. So, no round hips or big butts. They seem to prefer skinny women with large breasts. Like I said, it’s very rare to find that, that’s why women are encouraged to get implants.

    Also, if you ask men- any men- if they prefer women with curves, most of them will say they do like curves. However, white men and black men tend to have different ideas about what’s curvy. To a white man, for example, Megan Fox could be considered “curvy”. Nothing against Megan, but I am not sure if black men would think of her as curvy woman. To me, she is skinny (but not unhealthy looking). To many women I know, she is just “average”. But (white) women tend to have even weirder standards when it comes to other women’s figures (they find Beyonce and Salma Hayek fat, plain and simple). Then again, many woman- especially young woman I know, don’t realize round hips are about the bone structure and not “fatness”. But that’s another story.

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  147. Mira, right. The ideal of big breasts and a thin body is hard to come by. It’s no big surprise that the top cosmetic surgery procedures in the US, by far, are breast enhancement (number one) and liposuction (number two). And nearly all of those going in for these procedures are white women.

    Like


  148. Megan Fox…average. The average woman I see looks nothing like Megan Fox. I think she’s very beautiful, but most women white or black are not that thin.

    Also people need to understand that some people muscles are just built bulkier. I wish they would stop calling beyonce fat. She has muscular thighs. For some people, like beyonce or Serena Williams, these women no matter how much weigh they lose will always have thicker thigh muscles in proportion w/ their body. that is just their body type. As long as they’re healthy, their not going to be straight up and down, they’re just not built like that.

    Like


  149. Well look how the media and cosmetics industry and the modeling industry have shaped how men think what they are suposed to be attracted to, and what women are suposed to be like.

    That platinum blond big breasted concept was really put out there by Hugh Hefner in early fifties. Sure, in the 40’s, those sweaters and pin ups like Betty Grable were the thing, but, even she posed with her back to the camera.

    But Ive seen photos of the early roaring 20’s and the jazz age and it seems small perky breasts and tight rising well developed asses were what was the thing.And that is my type

    I tell you, I always was my own man, even at 9 and 10. Those Marilyn nude on the red carpet ones were just coming out, and sure , I was exited, but, I was also very exited seeing pictures in National Geographic, when they would show near nude black women dancing or doing something. The faces were just beautiful and the colors could be dark black to nut brown , the breasts extremly attractive and counter culture . I can remember some to this day and how exited they made me.Amd the faces were not unlike some of the girls I was going to school with, it just all tied in very naturaly for me.

    Dont get me started on porn… Im sure it wont pass Abagond ‘s standards

    Like


  150. …National Geographic???Isn’t that the magazine where they put penguins and animals in them? Nude bw in national geographic?

    If I may ask, BR how old are you?

    Like


  151. I like betty grable: http://blogs.nyu.edu/blogs/em25/theportrait/betty-grable.jpg

    I love the classic hollywood look

    Like


  152. Although my hair is dark and dark hair is beautiful, I do think blond hair is pretty. Blonde hair can look good on white women and white men too.

    Like


  153. @peanut:

    Also people need to understand that some people muscles are just built bulkier. I wish they would stop calling beyonce fat. She has muscular thighs. For some people, like beyonce or Serena Williams, these women no matter how much weigh they lose will always have thicker thigh muscles in proportion w/ their body. that is just their body type. As long as they’re healthy, their not going to be straight up and down, they’re just not built like that.

    I agree. I never thought of Beyonce as fat either. If that’s fat, then that way of thinking is effed up imho. What really irks me is that, even though I’m of Asian descent, I’m expected to live up to the petite, slim, small-chested stereotype. I always felt like an anomaly simply because I had breasts and was considered “heavier” because I weighed 110 pounds. Are you kidding me? Anything over a 100 pounds was considered fat.

    Like


  154. I don’t think that the fashion industry is geared toward thin models because the designers are gay. I think that is such a lame attempt to scapegoat.

    I think that saying that white men or fashion or whoever don’t like curvy is blown out of proportion. I don’t think that is true at all.

    Cosmetic surgery to enhance black features, ie the six women from New Jersey who had caulk injected into their behinds to become more curvy, is no better than to achieve other features.

    Like


  155. ^ Caulk? I’m speechless.

    Like


  156. Peanut, you got me, I wont lie to you, Im a young 60, i still body surf, drum and other good things…

    And, when I was 9 through 14 or so, National Geographic would occaisionaly have huge photo spreads of visiting a sub sahara African tribe. And sure had an effect on me. I have mentioned before , I was listening to African music at that age so the culture was very important to me.Some of the girls were extraordinarily beautiful. And like I said, some reminded me of girls I was going to school with and it tied in naturaly into understanding black beauty.

    Including the older women with suckled breasts, in the sence of understanding the total beauty of what a total woman is , and will be. These things made sence to me.

    and still do as I will explain below…

    Like


  157. …This may be grafic for some, and Abagond can decide if he wants it to stay…

    But , this whole thing of media hype what is beautiful about women and the breast for instance.

    Two incredibley important women for me in my discovery of myself as a man, had children and were several years older than me.

    Their breasts had been suckled.They were extremly beautiful women. One of them was my first wife. She had anandoned her 4 kids because of bad relationships with a couple of guys. I would never have known. I met her in a theatre company I was drumming for, and it was well after her leaving her kids in foster homes and she paid huge dues , I cant judge her for that.Her father was going to help her but got shot dead being mugged and that is what made her loose hope at that time. I fell in love with her watching her dance Cathurine Dunham technique and she had a very nice line and posture and great body.

    She was such a great lover that the suckeled breast absolutly made no differance , sometimes even enhancing the love making.I learned very deeply from these older black women that this media hype of what beauty is , is only that, hype. Real life plays out in a very differant way in finding out what is really beautiful and important to you.

    These womans ability to make me feel comfortable and like a man cut through very deeply as to what beauty really is for me in a woman.

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  158. @Leigh,

    Yeah, caulk! It’s unbelievable isn’t it. Just be happy with what you have.

    http://www.nydailynews.com/news/2010/03/08/2010-03-08_new_jersey_women_hospitalized_after_buttockenhancing_surgery_gone_wrong.html

    Like


  159. @islandgirl:

    Wow. The things women do to try to beautify themselves may end up hurting them in the long run.

    Like


  160. islandgirl,

    I think that saying that white men or fashion or whoever don’t like curvy is blown out of proportion. I don’t think that is true at all.

    It’s not blown out of proportion. It’s merely true that this is their preference.

    Now, I know you’re a thin woman that has been discriminated against due to your figure. And that colors your perception of weight matters, i.e., you are less apt to see issues that involve fuller-figured women and more apt to see those that involve thin women. But it is quite obvious that beauty ideals, by and large, are skewed in favor of thin women. This does not mean that thin women are never made to feel inadequate, because they are. However, I’d bet if you asked any woman which she’d rather be — slightly underweight or slightly overweight, the answer would be the former.

    Like


  161. Most people don’t care about the thin/fat issues of the fashion industry. I certainly don’t!

    Ladies, lets face it, there are so many men like Laurelton Queens who will slag off everything and everybody but themselves.
    There will be people on this very blog who will be offended, but miss the point that of course there are millions of good black men out there. Their silence though is complicit with all this incredible vitriol heaped on black women.
    No other race of men disrespects its women publicly like black men do. We’re gold-diggers? :yawn:
    We’re manly looking? Ask them if their mothers are. No wonder these men are always accused of self hatred.
    Interestingly enough these men are so busy finding everything wrong with black women but they are so blind to the even higher crimes/faults of black men.
    I don’t know any blog online that tackles that topic. The thug mentality of black men in London is completely out of control. Its embarassing. Even when they cross that color line they still abuse their non black women.
    Sorry I don’t think it’s a biased media, whites didn’t put guns and knives in those black men’s hands.
    Whites aren’t telling black men to disrespect their own race of women.

    Lay the blame where it belongs,a racist society is a contributing factor, but ultimately we are responsible for our own actions. Sadly a lot of black men aren’t clued up to the fact that continuing to blame everyone else for the choices they make won’t solve anything!
    Why aren’t so many black men sticking around to raise their own children? Instilling in little black girls that they are pretty and worthy, and not just the lighter skinned.
    Marry whomever you want but stop dragging black women into your nonsense.

    Like


  162. “No other race of men disrespects its women publicly like black men do.”

    I wholeheartly agree with that! Most men as a culture, generally uphold their women and think that their women are the best.

    Natasha,

    I understand what you are saying, but I don’t see that. I see fuller figured women being uplifted and thin women being openly and unapolgetically degraded. Maybe it’s the area in which I live. It is a kinda rural/country area. In NYC or LA, it might be diffrerent.

    Also, I think that most black women would opt to be slightly overweight.

    Like


  163. islandgirl,

    I understand what you are saying, but I don’t see that. I see fuller figured women being uplifted and thin women being openly and unapolgetically degraded. Maybe it’s the area in which I live. It is a kinda rural/country area. In NYC or LA, it might be diffrerent.

    Yeah, you must live somewhere odd. Or around only black people (Lol). There is the comment every now and then like “Girl, you’re so thin,” but I wouldn’t say thin women are “unapologetically degraded.” Not by a long shot. As well as most of the comments about thin women from other women seeming to stem from envy or insecurity masked in superiority.

    Also, I think that most black women would opt to be slightly overweight.

    I don’t know about that. I think Lynette wrote her thesis about these ideals even beginning to affect black women. They desire to be thin now too. Which is what I noticed as well, working in urban school systems.

    Like


  164. Yeah, small town Indiana.:( Don’t quite fit in. I guess my judgement is based on how I was treated and how I hear and see so many black or any other women put down thin women. There are channels on Youtube devoted to it. I wrote one describing my experiences and telling her that it is wrong and she wrote back a long letter and took it down. It was appalling some of the things she said in the video. And then some of Abagond’s and commentors post on here saying that thin women are not fertile, look like 12 yo boys, yada, yada.

    But you being in the urban school system, you probably have a whole perspective on this. I wasn’t aware teens (black) are body concious. It is bad and good. It is interesting what you get to withness.

    Like


  165. Merrimay,

    No other race of men disrespects its women publicly like black men do.

    This does seem to be the case. While I don’t think that black men that are disparaging of black women are the majority, there does seem to be a higher percentage of them compared to men of other races that talk down women of their race. It’s pretty interesting.

    Sorry I don’t think it’s a biased media, whites didn’t put guns and knives in those black men’s hands. Whites aren’t telling black men to disrespect their own race of women.

    Not overtly, but maybe covertly. Black men, like all people, are affected by images in media. Since women are still prized for their physical appearances first, if black women are being portrayed in a negative light or are simply absent outside of black media, what does that tell the men? That their women aren’t good enough? That non-black women are more desirable?

    islandgirl,

    Don’t allow those comments to affect you. Thin women are certainly not inferior as women, and it’s silly for people to even suggest otherwise.

    Yes, in the environments I’ve worked in, particularly the Northeast, black females are desiring to be thin and “modelesque.” Even in cities where most people are not white.

    Like


  166. Lynette, that’s interesting about the cognitive dissonance. I can certainly see the contrasting images being a problem.

    Like


  167. Thanks Natasha! I’m not surprised that you’re in the Northeast. I am suprised that the girls want to be not only thin but “modelesque”. Black women normally pride themselves on being thick, but things seem to be changing.

    Lynette,

    I will have to go back and read your dissertation again. But it is quite interesting the conflict that black women face and having to straddle the fence. In your research, did you find out why the black culture is so preoccupied (up until now) with thickness. It’s an interesting angle because as a society we always talk about obession with thinness, but not the opposite.
    Did you have to interview or perform a focus group?

    MerryMay,

    It would be interesting to see when this first occured. Have black men always been like this? When did black men start leaving the homes in droves? Has any research been conducted regarding this?

    Like


  168. Lynette, regarding the “prizing of thickness…”

    If this is cultural (something that has been passed down through generations) then perhaps it’s only a matter of time until the prizing diminishes or loses prevalence in African-American culture (as opposed to African cultures of course)? Perhaps it’s already occurring as suggested by islandgirl, and posts by others in this thread that have alluded to a perception of increasing BW bashing by BM?

    Kiernan820

    Like


  169. @peanut

    Megan Fox…average. The average woman I see looks nothing like Megan Fox.

    I didn’t mean they consider Megan to be average looking, but of average weight. Yes.

    Then again, I might be speaking from the position of my culture where many young women are thin and, if they are not, they are chubby or fat- but the shape of their body is not “curvy”. Women here don’t tend to have round hips, strong legs or big butts, not at all. That’s why it’s impossible for them to tell the difference between “overweight” and a woman with big hips (because of the bone structure).

    Plus, the beauty standard here is very rigid, and as far as I can tell it’s worse than in America. Yes, Beyonce and Rihanna, Salma Hayek, J.Lo etc are considered overweight. So is Scarlett Johansson. They are considered to have fantastic breasts, but that are otherwise overweight.

    In that sort of “climate”, it’s easy to see why Megan Fox is not considered to be really thin, but “just normal”.

    @islandgirl

    I understand your feelings and your personal situation, but, like Natasha, I do think it’s more of an exception to the general “thin is better” rule. Or maybe that’s because you live in a small town.

    I do believe you had problems and yes, what those people did on Youtube and similar things in real life are bad. There are plenty of healthy, thin women. And no, they are no less fertile. And no, they don’t look like 12 year old boys. They are feminine. Those who think otherwise are entitled to their opinion, but nobody should harass others, especially not by trying to make healthy (thin- or thick) women feeling bad about themselves.

    However, this doesn’t change the fact there is a general “rule” (beauty standard) in the white culture (especially in my part of the world)- thin is better, and what is considered thin is not the same as “healthy weight”.

    Like


  170. Lynette: “I was very homesick that first year and as a result loss about 10 pounds in the first couple of months.”

    man, i wish i would lose weight when I got depressed. I eat too much when I get depressed, lol! you’re lucky.

    Like


  171. peanut,

    Don’t talk like that. Both conditions are serious. If someone stops eating, that can make a person anorexic. it happened to a friend of mine and it’s not a good thing.

    Like


  172. Yikes. Again, female insecurities are running amok.

    Like


  173. Lynette,

    Your research must have been interesting. Is this your specialty? You could build an entire practice just on body issues alone.

    What I don’t understand about African prizing thickness is that most all Africans that I see (and I’ve had/have friends who are) are quite slvete. Even on TV, most of them are thin (not the improvished either). I have a guy friends and we discuss preference, and they never mention that. In fact a woman in my office is African and I made a comment about her being thin and she took it as a compliment and said thank you. Maybe there are different cultures within Africa that prefer this that I am unware of.

    Mira,

    If you don’t mind, where are you from again? I’ve never heard of a place that was that extreme in their like for thinness. Do you feel like you are any less of your culture because of their preference? You are curvy and that’s great! It would seem you would be beating men off with a stick because most men set your body as the prototype for femininity. It just sounds like you are not suited (in terms of body type) with your environment. Maybe we should switch locations.lol

    No slappz,

    It’s tough.

    Like


  174. on Wed 10 Mar 2010 at 19:39:21 Ó Dochartaigh

    Merrimay,

    “No other race of men disrespects its women publicly like black men do.”

    I don’t know about that, Muslim men have been known to beat their women in the streets with sticks and whips, plus they’re forced to wear Burkas.

    Islandgirl,

    “Yeah, small town Indiana.:( Don’t quite fit in.”

    This is off topic, but I don’t know where to ask this question. When most black people came to this country most lived in rural areas, plantations and so forth, so why do most black folks live in urban areas now, and why don’t more move to the country?

    To no slappz

    Female insecurities are way bigger than I could have imagined. I just read a book recently about the male train of thought vs the female train of thought and it blew my mind. Over 5,000 women studied and almost all of them had emotional and physical insecurities that men just don’t have. It is almost like a war is being waged everyday in their minds.

    Like


  175. Yes, women are just so insecure! And for no good reason.

    Like


  176. O Dochartaigh,

    Yes except being Muslim is a religion not a race is it?

    Like


  177. MerriMay –

    I think O Dochartaigh was simply wanting to say that there are many other “groups/categories” of men that also mistreat or devalue women. Women are mistreated all over the world and in some cultures worse than others.

    Like


  178. Thickness is prized in certain African cultures, my roots are South African, I should know. I do however come from a long line of very petite women, genes do play a part in one’s size, bone structure, body type etc.
    I see African women in London of a wide myriad of shapes and weight, so I can’t call it. I have a Kenyan friend from the Masai tribe, she’s rail thin and very tall. Somali and Ethiopian women tend to be thin as well.
    The African staple diet is quite rich and stodgy, so that may play a part in the propensity for African women to be so thick, I’d call it curvy but heck that’s me ;)
    A thick woman in certain South African tribes can be a sign of prosperity and general well being.

    Like


  179. on Wed 10 Mar 2010 at 20:30:13 Ó Dochartaigh

    To MerriMay

    Well technically they fall under the Semitic group, that includes most of the Arabic world. Middle eastern men have treated their women very badly for a long time, I’m sure religion is a strong factor for this.

    Like


  180. on Wed 10 Mar 2010 at 20:38:58 Ó Dochartaigh

    You know white women at one time in history were prized for being over wight. The Greeks and Italians loved big women, if you look at paintings by Michelangelo most of the women were chubby. I once heard from a history professor that chubby women meant that she came from a wealthy family and had plenty of money to spend on food and other things. So chubby and even fat white women at one time were a prize.

    I guess we then discovered it is unhealthy so women started watching their figure.

    Like


  181. O Dochartaigh

    I hear ya!

    Like


  182. Ó Dochartaigh says,

    I don’t know about that, Muslim men have been known to beat their women in the streets with sticks and whips, plus they’re forced to wear Burkas.

    laromana says,

    I agree that women worldwide are sufferring mistreatment/abuse and I strongly object to this as well but, as a BW, I DETEST that MOST BM are DISRESPECTING/DEMEANING/DEGRADING the HUMANITY/DIGNITY/FEMININITY of BW instead of DEFENDING the honor of their same race women as MEN of ALL OTHER RACES do.

    I know of NO OTHER RACE of men (regardless of religion), but MOST BM, who PUBLICLY TRASH BW TO OTHER CULTURES for being BW.

    Like


  183. O Dochartaigh –

    I would agree regarding that perspective in europe at the time. I would tend to lean towards the view that the images were more voluptuous rather than ‘fat’ however.

    While society has become much more “health conscious”, I find it is becoming a bit extreme. I live in Miami and see ‘fit bodies all the time. The ideals are becoming skewed. There are women down here who are not even in the professional “Fitness Circuit”, yet the work themselves into skinny states, get breast implants to replace the natural fat they lost -and on top of it are taking small amounts of male hormones to help maintain that “athletic” look!

    Like


  184. ColorofLuv, I have some friends from Miami and they say the same thing. They are very weight conscious and believe they are not fit enough, despite being thin, because compared to others in Miami, they are overweight.

    Like


  185. on Wed 10 Mar 2010 at 22:36:14 Ó Dochartaigh

    laromana

    “I know of NO OTHER RACE of men (regardless of religion), but MOST BM, who PUBLICLY TRASH BW TO OTHER CULTURES for being BW.”

    I’m going to have to respectfully disagree, many cultures do this, but I suppose it is not just because they are black or brown women, but just because they are women period. Many countries treat their women like chattel, selling their 12 year old daughters to 50 year old men, and treating them like property.

    Like


  186. Ó Dochartaigh,

    I’m going to have to respectfully disagree, many cultures do this, but I suppose it is not just because they are black or brown women, but just because they are women period.

    Therein is the point, which you missed.

    A misogynist will be a misogynist. We are not speaking of them, but black men who disparage black women in particular.

    Like


  187. on Wed 10 Mar 2010 at 22:45:07 Ó Dochartaigh

    colorofluv

    “While society has become much more “health conscious”, I find it is becoming a bit extreme.”

    I agree, starving yourself for “beauty” is in itself unhealthy. If a girl has naturally big hips that is fine with me, but if there is extra fat connected to those love handles, or if she has a little pouch going on in the stomach area, to me that is a sign of laziness and poor diet.

    Like


  188. on Wed 10 Mar 2010 at 22:51:53 Ó Dochartaigh

    Natasha W

    I understand the point, I have spoken to Asian men that prefer white women over Asian women, and when I ask why that is, they say because Asian women are prude, flat chested, and too conservative in bed. I have seen interviews with Pakistani men in Britain, and when asked the same question they say because Pakistani and Indian women are to bossy and have hot tempers and so on. They where degrading there women for and accepting another race.

    Like


  189. Ó Dochartaigh says,
    You are missing the point I’m making.

    MANY ANTI-BW BM in Hollywood and the music industry are contributing to GLOBAL ANTI-BW LIES/MYTHS/STEREOTYPES by producing songs/videos/films that portray BW in the MOST NEGATIVE light possible. MANY of these high profile BM also JOIN IN with anyone else who PUBLICLY TRASHES BW instead of defending the HUMANITY/DIGNITY/FEMININITY of BW.

    Again, I don’t know of ANY OTHER RACE of men who are creating global media that trashes their same race women (regardless of how they treat their women within their culture) and influences how the whole world views their same race women.

    Like


  190. Im going to clumsily address a couple of things here people have brought up.

    First, I think we should be careful about generalising about any groups of men or women, white, black , brown, red and yellow etc, I only say this to preface what I might say so people know I dont want to condemn huge groups of anybody.

    So, as people have remarked about some black men putting down black women and others have chimed in other cultures do this and complain of nagging or boring or loud, one thing we cant rule out is “the mother ” factor.

    There just are some men who have had bad relationships with their mothers and translate that in their relationships with women in their race.You all know the history of the black family in slavery, being broken up and many black males raised in a one parent family , usualy the mother, and, she has to be an authority figure also.

    This definitly is a factor and you dont have to be a black male to have mother issues, its played out in hollywood all the time and most of Emenem is about mother issues.

    And , about the bad image of black women in the media, well, lets just take the hip hop music videos. It is the American dilema to either be raunch or represion. The hip hop videos that did put out some images of black women as sex objects, put up images of black women totaly absent from main stream white driven media, but, didnt make them sensual, they made them raunchily sexual.

    Like Tip Drill.I would love to see black women dancing and in sensual costumes, but, , they are portraid as total sex objects. But, we can sit around and agree how exploitive the scenes are, but, I will request to take the clip home to study how much more exploitive it is to bring in a report. I just cant take my eyes off it.

    But, it isnt sensual, and I miss that.

    Like


  191. And as far as body types , I beleive the best thing we can do is work with what each one of us has been given.

    We all have the power to change our bodies through hard discipline and diet attention, but, too much can be harmful.

    All bone structures have the potential to be very attractive. Black women have qualities that play out very well with both being thick or thin. A thin black women usualy will have very well defined curves, and black women carry weight better than a lot of races.

    Length of leg can define various things in both ways, long or short.

    And, how a woman carries herself, walks down the street, talks with people, smiles, flirts, have alot to do with beauty and charm. We all know women who couldnt be models who have men eating out of the palm of their hands.

    Like


  192. I hope we’re not coming across as bashing black men, but I want to understand why black men seem to be the loudest in denigrading black women.
    As for muslim men whipping their women in public, heck I’d say they do so in the framework of protecting their women’s virtue, regardless how the West views such practices as barbaric. I’m not condoning it people!

    Black men on the other hand illustrate their hatred in music(white producers do not write those lyrics, lets not blame mighty whitey again), online blogs, in their choices to date outside and in doing so spitting, figuratively of course, in black women’s faces. Making a laughing stock of their own women to non black women.
    What sort of men do this?
    The continued silence from black men is quite interesting. Black women at least engage in dialoque, we admit we’re not perfect. I salute black women on this blog who take hits on this blog from the ‘haters’ with such amazing grace :)

    Like


  193. I salute them also Merrymay, and no I dont want you to think I thought you all were bashing black men, I think you all are expressing yourselves from the heart, and, I meant what I said for people not to think I am generalising.

    Like


  194. on Thu 11 Mar 2010 at 02:48:26 Ó Dochartaigh

    Merrimay

    Why in your opinion, do black male musicians write these lyrics?

    Like


  195. I dont know, maybe there is going to be a shift into a new dimension of the black man black woman where its going to matter less on unions together, and lead to being united politicaly but a greater freedom of choice about who the indivudual wants to hook up with.At least free of scrutiny from each other on certain issues.

    Maybe certain trends of thought will be discarded for new paramaters, that wont diminish the struggle by one ounce ,but, will liberate some barriers that cause conflict and resentment.

    That is just a thought not some deep died in the whool opinion

    Trends of thought and philosophy do change and evolve over time to meet the real needs of the people involved

    Like


  196. O Dochartaigh,

    Well I’m not a bloke so I don’t don’t know why they write such lyrics. Their actions affect how the world looks at us.
    I had a posh English boy tell me to ‘drop it like its hot’ and certain other things pertaining to my rear end, obviously things he’s picked up from what our lovely black men write about us!
    I’ve had another English guy who thought he was ‘down with the blacks’, mind you these are middle class whites in the suburbs, I live next door, preempt his sentences with ‘is it true black girls_________’, (be creative).

    So I wonder who do I blame really? The ignorant white guy who just happens to be just another consumer? What does he know about black women? He’s not watching ITV or the BBC to get his fix about blacks, nope, this is being doled out by men that ‘know’ us best. Or do I blame my own race of men that are profiting from the most explicit, obscene degrading lyrics they know the world and his sister planet are buying to listen to?? I know where I’m leaning. Here’s a clue, he doesn’t live next door!

    Like


  197. B.R. says,
    There just are some men who have had bad relationships with their mothers and translate that in their relationships with women in their race.You all know the history of the black family in slavery, being broken up and many black males raised in a one parent family , usualy the mother, and, she has to be an authority figure also.

    laromana says,
    B.R.,
    If it wasn’t for BW choosing to give birth to BM and raise them (at GREAT PERSONAL SACRIFICE) usually without the help of BM, there would be NO BM on the planet.
    BM owe a GREAT DEBT to their Black Mothers (regardless of how “flawed” they “may” have been) and there is NO EXCUSE for them to promote DISRESPECT for the women that most resemble their MOTHERS/GRANDMOTHERS.

    Like


  198. laromana says,
    B.R., If it wasn’t for BW choosing to give birth to BM and raise them (at GREAT PERSONAL SACRIFICE) usually without the help of BM, there would be NO BM on the planet. BM owe GREAT DEBT to their Black Mothers (regardless of how “flawed” they “may” have been) and there is NO EXCUSE for them to promote DISRESPECT for the women that most resemble their MOTHERS/GRANDMOTHERS.

    PowerFigure says:

    Right on laromana. I couldn’t have said it better myself.

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  199. To PowerFiure –

    – – there have been lots of rips, put downs, jokes, on the First Ladies, it just comes with the territory. As for racial put downs, that’s non-negotiable and I agree that if anybody is guilty of that, shame on them!!!

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  200. you know wat powerfigure, i agree with that analysis. in my study of slave narratives and such one particular one stands out in my mind and when I find it i will post it as an exact quote. basically though, in this story there was this slave woman and she was a fieldworker and was described as ‘tall and comely’ despite her lowly status as a slave, she always held her head high. Then one day she was sent on an errand by the overseer (the master’s son) and when she was on that errand, she was walking by a barn fence and the overseer was waiting. He told her to bend over and put her head inbetween the fence posts. He raped her. He did this because he wanted to take her down a few notches. He couldn’t stand the fact that she was so confident and regal even in her slave state, so he did the best he could to humble her and break her down. She later was forced to have a child by him.

    I think that’s what this is about, trying to break bw down and turn bw into these stereotypes of bitter angry and ugly. That’s all it is. I find it odd that people are always so obsessed w/a group they claim to hate so much…anyone else find it odd and i’ve noticed this is something white supremacist do alot.

    If you observe their behavior, when they talk about how supposedly ugly bw are…they will go out of their way to get either a picture of a monkey or the most unappealing, disgusting picture of some woman they can find and then rant and rave about how ugly bw are. I’ve seen this myself. They will never take the pics of attractive bw and compare to ww because they know deep inside that beauty is beauty and they don’t want to see that. So they’ll find any excuse to see bw as ugly and if somone comes w/ a pic of an attractive bw, they’ll rationalize her attraction away by saying “she must be mixed…” I just realized that is a common thing that is done…that should say something

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  201. i also find it humorous the obsession w/ how single and miserable bw supposedly are…its like people get off on that notion or something. obsession man…

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  202. and one more thing i find odd. some white men seem to have a sexual obsession with bm. I’m not talking about all wm, mind you. I’m not trying to attack anyone’s masculinity. But there are some wm who really seem to be obsessed with that…

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  203. “and one more thing i find odd. some white men seem to have a sexual obsession with bm. I’m not talking about all wm, mind you. I’m not trying to attack anyone’s masculinity. But there are some wm who really seem to be obsessed with that…”

    All of the accusations made on this site are undermining my mental health. LOL.

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  204. FG, I’m not saying all or even most white men are like that. Please don’t misunderstand me.

    BUt, there is some truth in that. I’ve found that some of the most racist wm seem to be sexually obsessed with bm. Read Eldridge Cleaver’s “Soul on Ice.” Look at how they castrated bm during Jim Crow…why do you think these racist white men did that? Why were they so paranoid about bm sleeping w/ white women? Sexual obsession masked beneath sexual paranoia. That is why.

    I’m not talking about the norma wm, I’m talking about these racist jackasses only, if it doesn’t apply then i’m not talking to you…

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  205. sometimes i think some of these racist wm who go out of their way to degrade bw but conspicuously dont do it to the same level of bw secretly are gay or something and envious of bw…why else would society be more socially accepting towards a black male than a black female??

    There’s something deeper going on here. everything stems from basic human emotions. so i know it something deeper going on. I even remember one time this topic came up on a steve mcjackass sailer post and i remember reading in the comments that one person asked if you had to choose between sleeping with a bw and you were alone on an island or sleeping w/ another man or pleasuring yourself, which would you choose. most of the posters didn’t give an answer, only one person said they didn’t want to sleep w/another man…that should tell you something…

    Again I am NOT talking about all white men here at all. I am talking about a small segement of white male population, namely the most racist ones who seem to be obsessed with bw for no reason and at the same time seem to obsess over/ idolize bm…

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  206. and i’m not downing homosexuals here at all…if you’er gay, you’re gay that’s your buisness..but why the closet sexual obsession with bm and the blatant disrespect of bw…??? i wonder that’s all

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  207. ColorOfLuv “… there have been lots of rips, put downs, jokes, on the First Ladies, it just comes with the territory.”

    PowerFigure: Not my point COL. Anyone knows that stuff comes with the territory. Not a newsflash.

    I am only interested in the nationally televised, insulting, namecalling, racial mocking put downs of sitting First Ladies, such as the attacks against our nation’s current First Lady, Michelle Obama. Send me those.

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  208. Laromana, I agree with you , all I am saying is that some males being raised by a woman and she is the authority figure might have issues about that.

    Men of all races can have issues about their mothers and it is a source of rebellion and mental anguish all their lives.It is rampant in literature , Hollywood and Eminem

    As I said, those statements I made arnt meant to be generalisations just something that might play a part in some of the unjust black women bashings that I am reading about here.

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  209. Peanut: “He couldn’t stand the fact that she was so confident and regal even in her slave state, so he did the best he could to humble her and break her down. She later was forced to have a child by him.”

    PowerFigure: This is the psychology of my argument. Mental midgets/weak men use this tactic to try and “break” strong women, and–in my opinion, there are none stronger than Black women. Based on evidence I’ve observed, even in this forum, no other race of women has as many sworn enemies.

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  210. Peanut: “Again I am NOT talking about all white men here at all. I am talking about a small segement of white male population, namely the most racist ones who seem to be obsessed with bw for no reason and at the same time seem to obsess over/ idolize bm…”

    PowerFigure: Yeah. And why is it that some White families are more accepting of adopting a Black male child? I’m not talking about the Brad and Angies of the world, but the everyday JoeSchmoes. I think Black females represent some type of challenge for many that Black males do not. I’m still working on that psychoanalysis, but I’ll get it worked out.

    I’m not a great advocate of Whites adopting Black children, but since no one is asking my permission, the question does intrigue me.

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  211. Although other First Ladies may have sufferred criticisms, I have NEVER before seen the UNCALLED FOR/ANTI-BW RACIST/HATE filled type of attacks Michelle Obama has been subjected to (even before Barack became President).

    I strongly believe that the attacks on Michelle Obama are a clear manifestation of the long standing, HISTORICALLY American ANTI-BW RACIST/HATE BW have always faced/continue to face in a country that has ALWAYS sought to promote ANTI-BW LIES/MYTHS/STEREOTYPES to TRASH the HUMANITY/DIGNITY/FEMININITY of BW.

    There are MANY ANTI-BW RACIST/HATERS in America who can’t stand to see a BW who defies ALL of their IGNORANT STEREOTYPES. These ANTI-BW RACIST/HATERS are only happy when BW are being DEGRADED/DEMEANED/DISRESPECTED.

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  212. At least for those of us who know, Michelle is an outstading beacon of beauty , inspiration, intelligence, charactor,strength and much more.

    For sure someone who means that much to us is going to be severly attacked and maligned

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  213. After reading through much of this discussion I MUST ADD… I am a Black woman and let me tell you, there is not a man on this earth that I do not walk about and get a double-take from. Black men, White men, Hispanic men, East Indian men, Asian men, you name it they all GAWK. So I do not know where the first few obviously inflammatory remarks came from but I am sure that the author himself would not be exempt from this list.

    Honestly, I really think these men are simply intimidated by the rejection that awaits! They know Black women overwhelmingly prefer to date the men of their own race….that’s not say it has stopped “Tom” from approaching. What he will do is wait and make sure the coast is clear – he needs to know that you will even give him the time of day.

    – What? You didn’t think I noticed those two White guys that moved in next door staring at me? LOL Too bad they don’t have a chance! Right along with that White guy that lives downstairs with his Asian girlfriend.

    Don’t believe the HYPE.. I know that that #’s 3 – 7 are quite accurate.. but seriously, where is this guy coming from on #’s 1 and 2? Why don’t we ask Kerry Washington which “guerilla” she thinks she looks like?

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  214. First Ladies being compared to zoo animals:

    I can remember people not liking Hillary Clinton and Nancy Reagan and saying unkind things about them, but as far as I could tell no one saw them as some kind of zoo animal. If my memory fails me, then please remind me.

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  215. Well Im sure not thinking its ok in any way for comparing Michelle to zoo animals.

    Its disgusting, it sais more about the people who would do it.

    I just dont put it past those skum. And it really does highlight the climate of racial hatred that is rising its ugly head now .

    You know they are going to do anything they can to make Obama and Michelle look bad

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  216. @abagond

    HOW in the hell did you forget to put Barbara Bush on that list?!? She is like #1 lol

    But seriously though, while your point is valid, its one thing to simply think these women are unattractive, it’s an ENTIRELY different thing when the comments are laced with racial overtones and epithets. No one Black is stupid enough not to understand what they are referring to when they compare the 1st Lady to an orangutang.

    The problem in this country that is becoming increasingly noticeable is the apathy towards racial discrimination. It’s like it is acceptable these days. You do not have to go to far to discover this. Just take a look at all of the overtly racist cartoons being made about the president just because he is Black (i.e, watermelon patch, cops killing an ape etc). How can anyone condone this activity and not be racist themselves?

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  217. i can tell you this right now….without doubt if I were a younger bw say 16,17 with low self-esteem, i would probably be cutting my wrist right now. the reason i say that is because w/ all this nonsens, threats and hatred towards bw going on in the media and on the internet, there is noway that the young vulnerable black girls reading this are not internalizing this racism, even in the most minute ways. i know that there are bw out there who already think they’re ugly just by virtue of the fact that they’re not white. This kind of stuff messes up people’s perceptions.

    that is what kills me about michelle o attacks and what John Mayer said, its kills little black girls self esteem and damages their perception. Honestly, I wasn’t familiar w/ John Mayer at all and at first I didn’t care in t he least. But after reading a depressing response from bw and thinking about how hurt some young bw who looked up to him would be…it made me mad. It hurt me that some young, vulnerable black girl was going to be hurt by that and that made mad.

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  218. @peanut:

    AMEN!!!! *thunderous applause*

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  219. im getting kinda scared if people say this stuff on the internet, i know sometimes people do troll and say things just to cause trouble,but for the people that seriously believe this stuff…that scares me

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  220. Unreason Black Women are Seen as Ugly
    “No. 2. They look too much like monkeys and gorillas. It has been shown that white people in the back of their minds think of monkeys when they see black people. So you see even Michelle Obama compared to a gorilla.”

    PowerFigure

    Even the way this post is written is, in my opinion, an insult against Black women. It presumes it is a defense of the idea that Black women look like monkeys to “White people” because these White people–in general it seems, simply “… in the back of their minds think of monkeys when they see Black people.”

    Even monkeys and gorillas, I would argue, are usually smart enough not to confuse a human image with the image of a monkey or gorilla.

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  221. i can tell you this right now….without doubt if I were a younger bw say 16,17 with low self-esteem, i would probably be cutting my wrist right now.

    Peanut, with all due respect, if reading bullshit on the internet can drive someone to suicide, then they have serious problems that “self-esteem” isn’t going to solve.

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  222. Peanut Said: “i can tell you this right now….without doubt if I were a younger bw say 16,17 with low self-esteem, i would probably be cutting my wrist right now. the reason i say that is because w/ all this nonsens, threats and hatred towards bw going on in the media and on the internet, there is noway that the young vulnerable black girls reading this are not internalizing this racism, even in the most minute ways. i know that there are bw out there who already think they’re ugly just by virtue of the fact that they’re not white. This kind of stuff messes up people’s perceptions.”

    Thaddeus Said: Peanut, with all due respect, if reading bullshit on the internet can drive someone to suicide, then they have serious problems that “self-esteem” isn’t going to solve.

    PowerFigure: Thaddeus, please read what Peanut said again. I’m sure you’re skimming quickly tonight, but it is only fair to respond to what someone actually said. Peanut gives a good explanation for her conclusion, and you focused in on maybe less than one-third of it, then offered your opinion.

    For those who live in a bubble, cut off from anything other than contact with the Internet, that response would make sense. However, those of us who face institutionalized and practical racism that stalks and attacks from every nook and cranny of our lives, who also are consumers of mass media/broadcast and narrowcast media, including the Internet, we know that young Black girls who might have normal growing pains, including problems with low self-esteem, might be a bit more challenged than those who only have growing pains, without having their race and their self-image assaulted constantly.

    Your response, in my opinion, is a “part of the problem” one, instead of a “part of the solution.” I’m sure most young Black women would never turn to suicide as a response to what, for them, is everyday life in good old America. Still, Peanut’s point, to me, is well taken.

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  223. @Thaddeus

    It is ABSOLUTELY NOT limited to the internet. I believe that Peanut was peaking hypothetically. It is EVERY DAMN WHERE! It is all over the place! So much more so than when I was a teenage girl (even though there is no way in hell you could call me ugly). It is what is manifested as beauty, and why so many young Black boys are somehow agreeing with this nonsense these days.

    This is why I tell all Black people, LOVE THY SELF FIRST! We need to be more responsible in promoting ourselves and creating the images WE want to see as opposed to what we think others will approve.

    It is so limited to the U.S. Being a person with background in a different part of the world, I can see that in America, being Black is crime. You never people here uplift the darker skinned sisters although they are just as beautiful as any light skinned sisters. But the promotion of anything “closest to White is beautiful” is what is wrong.

    There was a young Black girl on Tyra, very cute brown skinned little girl who hated her looks because she wanted to look light skinned. She said the boys did not like her or even noticed her and that they all liked the light skinned girl. She also said that she wished she could be White or light.

    So in a nutshell, not only is it ruining our daughters self-esteem, but also that of our SONS because they too are feeling as though Black is not beautiful and THAT is what creates a cycle.

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  224. thaddeus, it isn’t just the internet, i remember beig made to feel second rate all throughout my school years. If you readmy posts about my hair issues, you would understand what i’m talking about…this internet stuff is just making it worse…I’m tired of seeing bm running up and down the football fields and bbal courts and looking to the sideline and seeing NO BLACK CHEERLEADERS or maybe one if we;re lucky. things like that u prolly don’t even notice i bet…

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  225. Peanut, dont worry,I think young black women can handle what is going on today.

    I might be mistaken , but,Jamin seems to be one of the younger girls on here, and she has a great atitude.

    Maybe Dani

    Maybe Islandgirl is young, and they all seem to be sharp and know what the deal is.

    As a matter of fact, wouldnt you rather know what people are thinking so you can defend against it?

    If anything, when I see racists on forums, it just reminds me to be vigilant and not let my guard down.They wouldnt say that in real life , but, it gives you a chance to see what kind of screwed up thoughts are still floating around.But also remember , they dont represent the majority of how people think.

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  226. ( sorry Jasmin, I was typing too fast and forgot the s…)

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  227. ofcourse from your privileged position Thad, it might be harder for you to relate to this…but do you have any idea how stressful it is to not be able to speak your mind constantly for fear of being labeled “angry.” I remember one time in HS, this white guy made the comment “why do we have miss black america…i hate that…we don’t have miss WHITE america.” I was the only black person in the class. I remember wanting to say something so bad,but I couldn’t because then I would be angry and disrupting the class. Then when a white female whispered to him “shut up..can’t you see she’s black.” He said back to her “soo…she goes to school here.” Meaning/ implying that because i went to this white prep school, i guess i wasn’t REALLY black female, therefore it was okay for him to say these things infront of me.

    Then in another instance, after the Don Imus incident, this white male “friend,” of mine says right in front of me…” i don’t see what the big deal about the Don Imus thing was…they blew that way out of proportion.” Then he glanced at me, with big eyes. Almost like he forgot that I was there or that I was black, either one. Either way, his insenstivity astounded me and I couldn’t say anything, because no one took me seriously.

    Then there was another time when I was out at lunch w/ some white female friends and this white guy came to the table, who we knew from our classes, this white guy casually acknowledges all my white female friends…and conveniently forgets me…and I don’t get a hello or even a wave, i just sat there lookin like a damn fool while they chatted away. No one even notices…

    Then another time when I was on a class trip , I got in a fight w/ one of my white female friends and we ended up not speaking for a couple days. I was crying right after the fight, people had to see me, no one says anything. A couple days before the end of the trip my friend comes up to me and tries to talk to me like nothing happened, hadn’t apologize or anything yet…so i wasn’t having it, i wanted an apology. next thing i know, she’s crying and people come and tell me she’s crying and we should talk etc. Okay, now I love my friend to death, and I don’t want to see her cry or anything and its not her fault that people ignored me and not her. But just the fact that only her pain was acknowledge irritated me. I went up to her and she apologized as did I and she was sincere…we made up and everything. But i sitll have not forgotten the reaction i got from those other girls,they weren’t my close friend, but they were classmates and I felt that my feelings were ignored. Now my close friends for the most part if I tell them my feelings are hurt and they’re aware of it , they will defend me and everything, but if they don’t notice then nothing is done.

    It’s just the fact that little things like that make you feel invisible. I’m not even going to talk about how often teachers and white guys would get my named confused w/ the other 3 black girls in my grade. There’s only four of us and you can’t even keep 4 of us straight…come on!

    I just felt ignored alot and at the same time i had to conform to this ideal image, i had to go out of my way to eb submissive and keep my mouth shut in order to get the best treatment possible. All my black girlfriends who stood up for themselves got a bad rep that followed them all throughout school. But i was labeled as one of the “good ones,” the “saef ones…” the one they print on the school pamphlet to emphasize how “diverse,” and “accepting” they were. The one who they kept up front because I got good grades, was on honor roll, did a whole lot of extracurriculars and most importantly I kept my mouth shut.

    I got called “white girl” in a black girls body by a white female classmate. Things like that…will stress you out and take a toll on you because you know in order to get ahead you have to play the “happy negress,” role or you’ll be labeled as “militant,” and “angry.” But I guess you wouldn’t understand what that feels like…

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  228. …and Ill tell you, I note that there are a bunch of girls on here that have a self confidence in their apearance and character.

    I get that , especialy because all that has gone down in the past and that has been passed on down by wise people before them, these girls can stand up and look at racism straight in the face and beat it back!!

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  229. Peanut, your post came in while I was writing…

    Im really sorry to hear that you have to go through that .Prep school, my god, people in there have so much to learn about life

    I only hope you will see through their phonyness and not be too bitter as you go out in life.

    We all pay the piper one way or the other,life will balance out , they all will be stung with some kind of life pain sonner or later. Maybe your experiance is somthing you will be able to help someone with later on down the line….

    I wish I could give you a hug…

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  230. One thing that they did at my prep school in terms of the black students was…they would keep a few black students up front in the limelight for good measures. These were “The pick of the litter,” black students. They would put all their efforts and attention into this small group and the rest they would neglect and ignore. Then when the visiting students came, they would make sure that “the good ones,” were seen so people would know how minority friendly they were…

    Then in terms of the black male students…we had a brother school that was closeby and they would basically do the same thing, only they recruited them for sports. They would take black guys ( the boys school had a higher percentage of black students in our grade than ours)and they would pick 3 or so and push them into being student-athletes. Now this was not the type of situation where they would pamper the student-athletes and give them passes on academics. These black male student athletes were really the pick of the litter. They got good grades and played their sports. But, there was a catch, they would get all the encouragement and support necessary provided they made the football/bball team look good and continued to get good grades etc… They literally had to be twice as good as the non-black students. If you were just an average black guy at the school, you weren’t particularly good in sports & your grades were mediocre. Life was made to be hell for you. It was like as long as your out on the field and making them look good, they were nice to you. But if you were just an average dude…they had no use for you, so they neglected you or made your life miserable.

    The teachers would pick on them in classes. One guy got expelled for borrowing a baseball mitt and he gave it back before he was even told to. They got harshly punished. But that small group of the “pick of the litter,” black guys were always there to make it seem like they weren’t racist.

    They were awesome by the way, one of their “picks,” was this Jamaican guy, he was the nicest, intelligent, sweetest guy I’ve met. He liked black girls alot, he was so nice to us. But he was being used to further an image and I think he knew that…

    It’s just a different world and I can’t expect people who have not walked in my shoes to see and feel things the way I do as a bw…

    Btw, I am thankful for my education at the school, i got a good education and I don’t think they were evil or intentionally racist, they just couldn’t see what I saw and it was just like some were so stuck in their own world/ mindest they didn’t even realize how hard it was for me and the other black students. They just didn’t see it…

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  231. “Peanut, dont worry,I think young black women can handle what is going on today.”

    ARE YOU SURE? Because what I see are young girls growing into women that are scrambling to look like anything BUT Black. The “weave” has become much more popular in the last decade due to the continual promotion of what can be seen as self-hatred.

    We’ve all seen what Lil’ Kim did to her face… and how many sista’s have chopped off their noses in the industry? From Vivica, to Tyra, to Kimora, to Kelly and Beyonce and even Solange whose nose was already sharpened. What message are we sending our youth?

    If you really think they are “handling it” you had better think again. We have no way of predicting how this will be handled as the new generation becomes adults. It behooves us to address this issue seriously and get a handle on it NOW or we will breed another generation that will go through this again.

    I also think those remarks are DISMISSIVE and avoids the real issue. Besides who thinks they can determine what these young Black girls can handle?

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  232. I’d have to say probably the preppy white guys were the meanest when I was in school. Some of them were mean, there were a few that liked black girls and they were nice. one even dated one of my friends, the other dated a dark sicilian girl. He was nice to black girls but his parents didn’t want him to be w/ black girls in a relationship. He was nice , but I wasn’t that friendly w/ him. Some of them were just jerks though. Some just had this superior attitude about them. I think it was because maybe they came from the country-club, upper, middle-upper crust of society. Some of them were like this, not all of them.

    The black guys were nicer to us than white guys. I don’t know what is going on w/ some bm today, cuz the ones I knew atleast treated us decently. I may have to go back to my hometown if I want to marry a black man. They were awesome for the most part. Ofcourse you had a few who exclusively dated non-bw, but they weren’t mean to bw though. The vast majority did prefer bw.

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  233. ” We have no way of predicting how this will be handled as the new generation becomes adults. It behooves us to address this issue seriously and get a handle on it NOW or we will breed another generation that will go through this again.”

    They are the ones promoting exclusive interracial dating probably. I support interracial relationship when its for love, but I don’t exclude bm. Any man that is nice to me will do. Some of these pro-interracial bw though, really just have issues w/ bm, which makes me think they have issues with themselves and their own color.

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  234. MoniQTee
    “I also think those remarks are DISMISSIVE and avoids the real issue. Besides who thinks they can determine what these young Black girls can handle?”

    PowerFigure
    Dismissive is right. Thanks MoniQTee. Well said, especially for those of us who have to face these issues on a daily basis. We can’t dismiss it, because it is our life.

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  235. I am not against adopting kids who need love, but I do get offended when westerners think they’r rescuing the poor black child from savagery. I don’t know it just rubs me the wrong way.

    WHy do people insist on further separating black children from their cultures under the guise that they’re simply trying to help. It’s like become a fad in hollywood to adopt black children, it irritates the hell out of me. racism in it ultimate form actually.

    Instead of swooping in to rescue the poor black children from the “savagness,” of their black culture, why not do some work to eradicate the institutionalized racism that causes the hardship these people swoop in to resuce them from in the first place.

    WHy not try and help the family get back on their feet so they can stay together??? WHy not pour some money that was STOLEN from Haiti into their economy. WHy not support fair trade, and stop buying these products that perpetuate sweat shops and slavery over in these countries, then maybe people could afford to adequately support their kids…

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  236. another thing that gets me is…why don’t some of these people adopt american black children?? why are they always going to africa and the carribean to “rescue,” these kids??? I’ll tell you why because to adopt a poor black child from an american ghetto would demonstrate the fact that it is not black’s inferiority that is the problem, its racism that is perpetuated by their own culture that is. It would reflect the fact that the one thing blacks in american and abroad have in common is oppression. that would explain why some black families have no choice but to give up their childnre for adoption. because this racist system puts them in a position where they have no choice…

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  237. that is why i hated tha nonsensed depiction of “the blind side.” its supposed to be all post-racial happy nonsense…please.
    Just the fact that they had to make a damn movie like that in the first place says to me we aren’t past racism at all…

    not every black guy can grow up to be a professional athlete and for the ones that can’t where is their chance at life??? WHy didn’t that movie touch on how institutionalize racism cause that man to be in the position where he couldn’t read well, his mother was on drugs in the first damn place???They didn’t touch on the real issues at all. Instead they just painted the picture that black were barabric, bw are crack mothers and bm lust after ww.

    I was offended by that movie. Highly offended. I’m not going against what that family did in reality because I don’t know them. But from what I saw in the depiction of the movie was nonsense. It was a feel-good, racist, minstrel type show to make racists feel good about themselves.

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  238. ******”You gotta wonder why some whites are so enthusiastic to adopt black children when their society as a whole hates black people altogether in the first place.”*******

    They *adopt* them to *adapt* them.

    It’s all part of the grand scheme of conquering a race. You come at them from all angles. This is why you see them promoting interracial dating in the Black race like no other. “If we can not kill them off, we will BREED them off.” Who do think those adopted Black children will grow up and marry?

    In order to understand these people, you must first think like them.

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  239. ****I know that is another thing that makes whites angry.
    A black man in the white house AND a black man who has a white mother that doesn’t even look white in the white house.****

    Once again my sister, you are right on POINT.

    I once read somewhere a White woman state “but he comes from a White womb.”

    It should tell her something that a Black man raised in the states with his White family still feels MORE connected to his Black roots.

    He told the story of a White woman he was dating before he met Michelle. He said he was all set to be with this woman and then he went to meet her family and although they were nice to him, he simply did not feel comfortable nor did he feel as though he were connected and for that reason alone, he would not marry her and ended the relationship.

    That is a very powerful thing coming from a man who was raised by his all White family. That says one hell of a lot my sister.

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  240. @ Peanut:

    I liked your comment about your school. I can so see that.

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  241. @ MoniQTee:

    Excellent point about Obama considering himself black despite his white upbringing. That speaks volumes about how racist whites are.

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  242. Obama can consider himself whatever he wants. He can consider himself white if he wants, but that doesn’t change the fact American people would see him as a black man. Not mixed, black.

    I must admit I see Obama as mixed. I respect his personal identity but my own views on cultures and society make me see him as mixed. It has nothing to what he looks like. He is clearly of African descent (I don’t know what are rules for passing, but I don’t think he could pass for white). The funny thing is, he does look a lot like his maternal grandfather (at least to me), who was white.

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  243. Powerfigure sez:
    Thaddeus, please read what Peanut said again. I’m sure you’re skimming quickly tonight, but it is only fair to respond to what someone actually said. Peanut gives a good explanation for her conclusion, and you focused in on maybe less than one-third of it, then offered your opinion.

    No, PF, I did indeed read Peanut’s post. Do you truly think media brainwashes people to the point where they’ll cut their wrists? Sure, maybe a few folks who have serious problems otherwise, but I don’t think this is the real issue.

    Peanut sez:
    thaddeus, it isn’t just the internet, i remember beig made to feel second rate all throughout my school years.

    Sure, now that I’ll buy. You’re cooped up 40 hours a week in a school where real people treat you like dirt, every day of the week. Yeah, that could drive someone over the brink.

    What I don’t buy is “the media does it” argument.

    ofcourse from your privileged position Thad, it might be harder for you to relate to this…but do you have any idea how stressful it is to not be able to speak your mind constantly for fear of being labeled “angry.”

    Peanut, you have not even the slightest idea of what my position is. It’s not very “privileged”. You’re simply making a rhetorical statement without anything to back it up. You believe that “white’ is priveleged to “black”, “male” to “female” and think that those generalizations give you an adequate basis to situate me with regards to you.

    Furthermore, “privilege” isn’t some sort of homogenous thing one has: one can be priveleged in some ways and not in others.

    I’d lay dollars to donuts, for example, that you have significantly more economic privilege than I do. I’d also bet that you have far more political privileges than I do. As an immigrant, I have been jerked up, down and sideways more times than I care to remember. I have very few rights – even in a country which is notorious for not caring much about rights.

    On the other hand, I’m “privileged” to have a PhD and a fairly well paying job within the context in which I actually live… for now, that is. But this is a very recent and very fragile state of affairs.

    With regards to high school, I was hardly “privileged”. No need to go into old history here, but the concept that somehow I related to those cheerleaders and football players you are going on about simply because we shared the same ethnic background is ridiculous. That’s not how human solidarity works in the real world, Peanut.

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  244. Obama is not even close to passing. Only when you can pass for white is a decision about being white even possible in America.

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  245. Obama is not even close to passing. Only when you can pass is a decision about your race even possible in America.

    I get that. I wrote “I am not sure if he could pass” because I didn’t know if he could. He can’t pass for white to me, but my criteria isn’t the right one here. There are many people that are “clearly white” to me, but I learned they are not considered as such in America. That’s why I had to ask about Obama.

    So are you trying to say Obama didn’t have a choice? If you look “clearly” black, white or Asian, you can’t choose? But if you don’t, then you can pass (choose your race). I guess most of the people who can pass still choose white.

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  246. Mira said:

    “So are you trying to say Obama didn’t have a choice? If you look “clearly” black, white or Asian, you can’t choose?”

    Right.

    Like


  247. “I also think those remarks are DISMISSIVE and avoids the real issue. Besides who thinks they can determine what these young Black girls can handle”

    MoniQtee First of all, I made those comments based on opinions Ive read right here on this forum, from women who strike me as having sharp minds and a good philosophy about how to face racism.

    Facing racism is a lot differant than cosmetic choices by celebrities . Or even women in general. Women in general are extremly hyper aware of changing their visual, I dont get at all that many of these choices are trying to look like white women.

    I also made those comments at seeing how obviously upset Peanut was at things she was seeing on here or other places on the the internet.

    Hearing refreshing honest straight up comments by many black women on here makes me wonder if you really can determine what young black girls cant handle

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  248. @ Mira (cont’d):

    In an amazing twist of history, white American slave owners overturned both common sense and English law and wanted their children by black women to become slaves. That still lives on as the One Drop Rule, which still orders American society even though the slaves have been freed for over a hundred years.

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  249. “I’d also bet that you have far more political privileges than I do. As an immigrant, I have been jerked up, down and sideways more times than I care to remember. I have very few rights – even in a country which is notorious for not caring much about rights.”

    heard that

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  250. In an amazing twist of history, white American slave owners overturned both common sense and English law and wanted their children by black women to become slaves.

    That is one of the most horrible things. I mean, yes, enslaving people is horrible, but for some reason it seems even more horrible when you do that to your own child. Your own child. It even doesn’t make any biological sense, not to mention human feelings.

    I am not a hard core feminist or something, but I sometimes wonder if if would be different with female slave owners and black male slaves. Would a mother make a slave of her own baby? I guess something in me sees mothers as “better” and more dedicated parents (as a whole). But then again, maybe I’m wrong. Maybe it would be the same.

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  251. Fathers tend to be more cold-hearted than mothers, but wanting to see your very own children become slaves is way beyond even that.

    It also goes beyond all those white arguments about how “natural” slavery and racism are. And you know it because they had to overturn English law to do it.

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  252. I don’t understand the above…although there were laws in place, and if we broaden the issue of slavery to West Indies etc.

    Although there were laws was it not up to the individual slavemaster whether they accepted their offspring or not.
    Some did, some did not for a variety of reason??

    This reminds me of some slave narratives on how evil the wife could be toward her slaves and their offsprings, but that is yet another issue

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  253. Thad:

    Are you saying that because you know what it is like to be poor or foreign you know it is like to be black?

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  254. I’m saying that I know what it’s like to be told to shut up and have no recourse at all to rights. I’m saying I that if my life is “privileged”, those privileges are damned few and far between and don’t qualify as an overall froasting of sugary goodness on my life that removes me from all understanding or empathy with the so-called “underprivileged”.

    The problem here is binary and reductionist thought, Abagond. The belief that complicated human lives can be reduced to one or two (at most three) variables and reliably compared along a quantitiative scale (“better” vs. “worse”) on those alone.

    Privilege doesn’t work that way. Provably so.

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  255. I do believe there are many discriminated whites. First of all, those who are white but not recognized as such. Second of all, the “low class” whites in history (even today?) I don’t think being poor is fun for anyone. Being an immigrant is not fun for anyone. Living in a country that is an enemy to America is not fun if America starts a war with your country, be it populated with white people or not.

    I am not sure if black people realize being born white is not enough. Sure, you can say whites don’t understand being born black is enough (to be discriminated). Fair enough. I get that. However, I don’t think being born white automatically means you won’t be discriminated against. Being born middle class heterosexual male WASP in America, maybe. Maybe not even that.

    People need to realize how the system works. Black people get discriminated just because they are black. Whites don’t seem to understand this. But I don’t think black people realize being white is not enough to live a life free of discrimination. Or black people do understand, but believe discrimination against them if worse?

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  256. I’ve suffered many forms of discrimination. I happen to be white with a lot of unique perspectives, primarily from all the diverse experiences I’ve had; however, to say a white person cannot suffere racial or ethnic discrimination is absurd.

    Discrimination comes in many forms…

    Stereotypical Discrimanations that a Black American may assume a White person would never experience: (yet I have….)
    1. Been unable to catch a cab based on my ethnicity
    2. Been followed in store with ever watchful eyes because people assumed I might steal something…
    3. Unable to get into a club because of my nationality…
    4. Told to “get out” of a club because of the color of my skin.
    and the list goes on…..

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  257. Here’s what I think:

    Americans, in general, believe that whatever particular group they belong to has it worse than all the others. This is true whether its blacks talking about how only “their” slavery was the “real” slavery, jews talking about how only “their” holocaust was a “real” genocide, or WASPs talking about how everyone hates “their” country because they are “jealous” of “their” achievements. To be American means to choose a myth of trial and tribulation and believe in eventual triumph over said trials, but only for the “chosen” people, which certainly isn’t the nation as a whole.

    Americans, in general, believe that they carry about an “essence” which can only truly be preceived or understood by people who are exactly like them (even though it should be blindingly obvious that no one is exactly like anyone else).

    Americans believe that each crime or problem in their particular identitary group’s past makes their experience as special and unique as a snowflake. While doing this, they tend to lose track of the fact that the world is caught in one hell of a blizzard.

    Americans, the world’s richest and most privileged people, by and large consider themselves to be sorely put upon. This is true whatever their gender, color, or religion. The U.S. is a society that’s carrying a round a heavy charge of cultural anger and it’s anyone’s guess why this is so.

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  258. A problem with much of the commentary on this blog is that it has a fatalistic view of racial disadvantage. Yes, many whites look down on and discriminate against blacks. Does that mean, though, that blacks are eternally consigned to second class status? I don’t think so. Based on personal experience, it seems that many whites also have unkind opinions of Asians. However, Chinese, Koreans, and other Asian groups in the US are flourishing economically and socially. Whites view them as racial others, but respect them nonetheless because of their demonstrated competence. I think non-white minorities would do well to try to emulate East Asians.

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  259. Thad,

    Here’s what I think (about what you said):

    Americans, in general, believe that whatever particular group they belong to has it worse than all the others.

    Wrong. It’s not just Americans. People here are the same and, from what I can tell, people always believe “their” group has it worse than all the others. I am not sure about Brazil, but that is certainly not an “American” cultural trait.

    Americans, in general, believe that they carry about an “essence” which can only truly be preceived or understood by people who are exactly like them (even though it should be blindingly obvious that no one is exactly like anyone else).

    I don’t know if this is an American thing but, yes, I did notice that. Even here, it looks like many people (including the blog owner) believe it’s impossible to understand someone else’s situation/problem/suffering if a person doesn’t belong to the same group as you.

    What I’m saying is, I don’t think the reason behind the discrimination is important (whether it’s your race, gender, religion, etc). If you were discriminated, you are able to understand what’s a discrimination. The reason behind it is not important. Hey, even if you were never discriminated, I do believe you’re able to understand the mechanism behind it.

    The problem is not being unable to understand. The problem is the lack of interest.

    So, why are there so many racist and sexist white males? Is that because those people aren’t black and female OR because they simply don’t care?

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  260. “In an amazing twist of history, white American slave owners overturned both common sense and English law and wanted their children by black women to become slaves. That still lives on as the One Drop Rule, which still orders American society even though the slaves have been freed for over a hundred years.”

    There was variation in how the children of slave owners were treated.

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  261. “So are you trying to say Obama didn’t have a choice? If you look “clearly” black, white or Asian, you can’t choose? But if you don’t, then you can pass (choose your race). I guess most of the people who can pass still choose white.”

    Non-Hispanic people with any visible African ancestry tend to be categorized (and thus categorize themselves) as just black in the US. There’s a subset of black-white mixes who are maybe somewhere around 1/4 black, look Mediterranean, and don’t have obvious African ancestry. This is the group under the most stress from the US binary racial system and who have had trouble integrating into any racial group. In the 1990s, many started to use new terms like “multiracial” to describe themselves. In light of American history, the idea of someone of part African ancestry identifying as white was unthinkable, so black and multiracial were viewed as the only options. I think it has only been in the last few years that the light mixes have started to identify as white. I believe this has much to do with the growing acceptance of pure white people.

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  262. Thad, your life may not be easy and I’m not saying wp don’t have problems…clearly they do. But you do recognize that you have privileges just for being white dont you?

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  263. i’m sorry there are privileges that people get just from being white.I’m not saying life is a bed of roses, but I will give a statistic example. I know this from one of the my classes, black and whites who are of equal economic backgrounds, same employment, same socio-economic status. Studies have shown that even at the same level, blacks still have a higher incidence of hypertension and CVD. At the same level, whites still make more money on avg. than blacks on the same level. I will go through my notes and I will find that study and the others to show you that this is true. There IS privilege that comes just from being white in this world…there is. Sorry.

    Also, a more personal example. I have a friend who lived with her mother. Her parents are divorced, now her dad does make good money, but her mother does not. So just based solely off her mom’s income. My family is more well-off (discount her father for now) so she worked at this nice gourmet grocer and I needed a job. So, she told me to ask the manager for a job there. I did, this was my senior year in HS and I need summer work. He basically said…” well I’m really looking for someone who can work throughout the year and who is not getting ready to leave for college.” Being naive, I was thinking “okay, understandable, no prob. I’ll look elsewhere.” Didn’t think anything of it. Come to find later, my friend says to nonchalantl…”oh yeah my boss keeps hiring people…he keeps taking on these people. He hired one person for2 mons. she’s about to go off to college.” Suddenly…it hit me like a mad truck. I realized why I didn’ get the job and sure enough…not one bp in that store. So now she has a guarenteed job lined up for her EVERY summer she comes home. She even told me “i’m set throughout college.” There’s another example for you.

    Now I will admit having professional parents and being able to pursue a college education gives me privilege, absolutely…I am very very fortunate. But, that doesn’t mean there is not privilege just by virtue of someone’s whiteness. Not saying wp have it easy or don’t experience discrimination, but being white for the most part, no matter what income level, does give you a certain degree of privilege. that is all im saying.

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  264. B.R. said:

    ****”MoniQtee First of all, I made those comments based on opinions Ive read right here on this forum, from women who strike me as having sharp minds and a good philosophy about how to face racism.”*****

    AHHHHH.. but we are NOT talking about women…we are talking about girls, young girls and teenage girls.

    And as another poster pointed out, there is a silent WAR being waged about Black women and I know it is not in my head nor in her head either.

    AS A BLACK WOMAN I can tell you that is is much more hurtful today than it was decade or two ago. It is NOT the same because NOW our OWN MEN are willing participants in this self-racist point-of-view.

    So it’s no “first of all” B.R. If you are not a Black woman, you are NOT qualified to make that statement.

    I found it offensive and quite dismissive. It is just like what White people do, practice racism, and then say that it does not exist.

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  265. Thad, I am not saying this to belittle your circumstances or say you don’t experience discrimination or hardship. I don’t know that because I’m not you. What I am saying is there is a degree of privilege that comes w/ being white regardless. Imagine if you had to deal w/ all your hardship and in addition deal w/the hardship of being black in a racist society on top of that.

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  266. Mira said:

    ******”I get that. I wrote “I am not sure if he could pass” because I didn’t know if he could. He can’t pass for white to me, but my criteria isn’t the right one here. There are many people that are “clearly white” to me, but I learned they are not considered as such in America. That’s why I had to ask about Obama.

    So are you trying to say Obama didn’t have a choice? If you look “clearly” black, white or Asian, you can’t choose? But if you don’t, then you can pass (choose your race). I guess most of the people who can pass still choose white.”*********

    Sure they do Mira. I come from a mixed family. My family is from Central America. I have an uncle in fact several that obviously look very close to White… One seems CONFUSED and the other just said to hell with it and went to claim he is White…, But its deeper than that. My uncle is an extremely intelligent man. I mean he is borderline genius if not genius, and my family coming from a tiny country in the Caribbean where racism is not practiced, coming here was an eye opener for them. He decided to join the military (this is during the 70’s when racism was much more rampant) and when he took the test he scored he extremely high – so much so he made the Los Angeles Times. They promised him so many things upon joining the military but upon his arrival, absolutely NOTHING went the way it was planned. He was stuck in some crap job that harnessed nothing of his intelligence.

    Well to make a long story short, when he came out he was a different person. He began to identify himself as White because he could pass. His experience in the Military led him to realize that being White is just MUCH EASIER. Today he has children for a White Greek woman and you bet your buppy his kids, my cousins look White. And you know what he identifies them as don’t you?

    He stayed away from our family, he does not come around. He told his wifes family that he was adopted. BUT… he did say that my great-grandma who IS White is his grandmother.

    Do you know why people do this? Because of all of the hatred in this world. My uncle was shut out of opportunities in the Military because he was Black.. or mixed or Black.. or whatever they call it in the States, where we come from we are called Kriol or in the US they say Creole;however we are not of the same French background as them.

    He went through some kind of hell in the military – just like my father did who was also from our country in the Caribbean. My father is now deceased because of the joining the Military in the U.S. during the same decade of the 70’s. Because he was obviously a mixed man with an accent, he was mistreated and used for experimental purposes (now my father looked mixed but he could not pass for White – so there you have it.)

    But I digress, people will do this because it is part of survival. I think it is horrible and says volumes about our society. I used to think my uncle did it because he hated being Black… but now I know the truth.

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  267. Peanut said:

    “He basically said…” well I’m really looking for someone who can work throughout the year and who is not getting ready to leave for college.” Being naive, I was thinking “okay, understandable, no prob. I’ll look elsewhere.” Didn’t think anything of it. “

    I got that too and was equally naive.

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  268. i’m sorry there are privileges that people get just from being white.

    I am not sure if this is the case. So why half of the Caucasian people are not even recognized as whites in the US? (Middle Eastern people, South Asians…) Why are muslims of any colour discriminated against? Why are white immigrants discriminated against?

    Peanut, I am not trying to start an oppression Olympics here, and yes, I understand what you’re talking about. However, I do believe you see “white” as a very narrow group. Maybe that’s the prevalent American thinking, I don’t know (so it’s not like I’m trying to start a fight here).

    But when I said “being white isn’t enough” I meant on world population as a whole.

    In short, I am not saying black people are not discriminated for being black. I am saying simply being white (in a way of not being black or Asian) is not enough to get privilege.

    I could say Americans are privileged in so many ways. But to think that you’re privileged simply for being an American is an ignorant way of thinking. How dare Abagond write about discrimination? He is an American, after all! If he has money and time, he can travel wherever he wants. He can visit Greece, Italy, Brazil, Egypt, Japan. No questions asked. His country is the most powerful in the world, and its culture and values are (subtly and less than subtly) forced upon the rest of the world. So how could he be discriminated???

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  269. Peanut:

    Good point: very few people live a charmed life, but in addition to all the regular bad stuff that everyone gets blacks have racism layered on top of it.

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  270. “I am not sure if this is the case. So why half of the Caucasian people are not even recognized as whites in the US? (Middle Eastern people, South Asians…) Why are muslims of any colour discriminated against? Why are white immigrants discriminated against?”

    The answer is Mira because those people are NOT white. “White,” is a social construction. They may be classified as white or look white, but they’re not white. Also, in my experience, non-white muslims are far more discriminated against than the white european ones. Iraqi or Iranians are seldom considered white in my experience. If you broke them down into 3 races asians, white and blacks, actually I think they would be considered asian not white anyway.

    My lebanese friend tried to pass herself off as white, she was beige and the white students at my school were quick to correct her on that one…

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  271. @Mira,

    Please don’t trust all of this rhetoric on this blog about “passing for white” and “running from your blackness.” In many cases, mixed kids are treated as punching bags by black kids angry about mistreatment by whites. Alot of multiracials are scared by both white and black racism. W

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  272. “Peanut, I am not trying to start an oppression Olympics here, and yes, I understand what you’re talking about. However, I do believe you see “white” as a very narrow group. Maybe that’s the prevalent American thinking, I don’t know (so it’s not like I’m trying to start a fight here).

    But when I said “being white isn’t enough” I meant on world population as a whole.

    In short, I am not saying black people are not discriminated for being black. I am saying simply being white (in a way of not being black or Asian) is not enough to get privilege.

    I could say Americans are privileged in so many ways. But to think that you’re privileged simply for being an American is an ignorant way of thinking. How dare Abagond write about discrimination? He is an American, after all! If he has money and time, he can travel wherever he wants. He can visit Greece, Italy, Brazil, Egypt, Japan. No questions asked. His country is the most powerful in the world, and its culture and values are (subtly and less than subtly) forced upon the rest of the world. So how could he be discriminated???”

    Response:

    No, I’m not trying to start an oppression olympics either. I respect your opinion, but I also think people need to try and understand white privilege and in my experience, not enough people accept that there is such a thing. The term “white” changes throughout time. In america, white usually means mostly anglo-saxon descent. So middle-easterns are not considered white,with the exception of maybe some Israelis,depending on other factors. In fact there is a movement to get people of middle-eastern descent their own category on the census because the treatment is not the same to the white europeans…so by all means and standards they are not considered “white,” maybe someday they will be.

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  273. Wrong. It’s not just Americans. People here are the same and, from what I can tell, people always believe “their” group has it worse than all the others. I am not sure about Brazil, but that is certainly not an “American” cultural trait.

    Agreed. But rarely does this get culturally enabled to the degree that it does among Americans and rarely has a people had less reason to b#$%h about there lot.

    Mira, seriously: many Americans think, for example, that certain Serbians hate the U.S. because said Serbians are “jealous” of the U.S. These same Americans think 9/11 happened because Al Quaeda was “envious” of the U.S. American politicans actually say these things in public and, instead of being laughed at, get thoughtful nods from people.

    So, why are there so many racist and sexist white males? Is that because those people aren’t black and female OR because they simply don’t care?

    Because they simply don’t care. They DON’T feel any personal or collective debt to black people and it’s useless to try to make them feel that way.

    Peanut sez:
    But you do recognize that you have privileges just for being white dont you?

    Sure. The problem though, Peanut, is that you seem to want to turn that situation into a be-all, end-all description of my world view and situation in it. YOU have immense privileges just because you speak English and are computer literate, but if I were to say that makes you incapable of understanding another’s oppression, you’d find that pretty damned stupid, wouldn’t you?

    You get privileges just from being an American, Peanut. Imagine having to deal with all you’re dealing with and not being an American.

    This is the sort of “my oppression makes me a special, unique snowflake, utterly incomprehendable in my pain and despair” arguement that I simply do not buy. Go sell it to emos, man.

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  274. Mira said:

    *******”I must admit I see Obama as mixed. I respect his personal identity but my own views on cultures and society make me see him as mixed. It has nothing to what he looks like. He is clearly of African descent (I don’t know what are rules for passing, but I don’t think he could pass for white). The funny thing is, he does look a lot like his maternal grandfather (at least to me), who was white.”******

    But Mira, by looking at me, you would not consider me mixed although I am.

    Black Americans or African Americans get upset when I say that I am a Belizean American. I say this because it what I identify with. Ethnically I am a Belizean, by race however, I am not confused I am Black just like Obama. But also, like Obama, I was raised by my White grandmother too. No one says that I am mixed raced although I have many different indigenous backgrounds.

    Now the interesting is how different people conceptualize what is mixed. Around Black people, they simply say I am Black while having no knowledge of who I am, and get offended if I say I am not African American (which is a foolish term because every Black person in America is not necessarily even American).

    BUT… there is a continuously growing group of East Indian or Hindu people that are living in America. Most of them can be found around the more decorated universities like UCLA and USC. Well I used to work for UCLA’s graduate school and so I found myself surrounded by them. When I would walk in the hallway these students would either smile very brightly at me, OR a good majority of them would give me mean stares and dirty looks.

    I did not take it personal at first because I was unaware of what was going on but then after awhile, it became too noticeable. So one day I came home and I found myself looking in the mirror. Suddenly like a BOOM, it dawned on me what was going on… these people, these East Indians were looking at me thinking I was HALF East Indian, and well I can see why.

    I have a dark red complexion but with yellow undertones just like them… My hair is very strong and thick and naturally jet Black in colour. I NEVER KNEW that it was that obvious until a separate group of people from another part of the world silently pointed it out to me. The ones who were giving me dirty looks did it in disgust because they thought I was half Black and half East Indian.

    The truth is I am mixed with Indian blood but it is Mayan Indian. I do believe I have East Indian blood but I believe it was my great great grandparents who were East Indian. I also have Spanish blood, and so my point is my jet Black hair could have come from any one of those blood lines.

    I however am offended by THEIR NOTION because they do not know me, all they know is they do not like Black people and the thought of what they *think* is half of them is what bothers them.

    So I guess what I am trying to say to you is people identify by CULTURE…not by how they look. Obama says he is Black because that is the CULTURE that he identifies with and that is understandable.

    When I am in Belize, I am just a Belizean and no one asks me what I am mixed with because at the end of the day, we consider ourselves Black Kriols.

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  275. excuse me, mediterraneans are generally considered “white,” as well. although at one time italians weren’t accepted as white same w/ the irish.

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  276. Wow, this is starting to turn into a “Go back to Africa” argument: blacks in America should shut up already because they have it better than people in Africa:

    https://abagond.wordpress.com/2009/10/15/go-back-to-africa/

    https://abagond.wordpress.com/2009/10/28/the-barbara-bush-award-for-deluded-whiteness/

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  277. well, i’m sorry if i offended you thad.

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  278. FG:

    “@Mira,

    ****Please don’t trust all of this rhetoric on this blog about “passing for white” and “running from your blackness.” In many cases, mixed kids are treated as punching bags by black kids angry about mistreatment by whites. Alot of multiracials are scared by both white and black racism. W”*****

    IT is NOT just mixed children, but light skinned Blacks too. I went through it when I was a kid for having long hair and being on the lighter end…HOWEVER, NO BLACK PERSON EVER TOLD ME THAT I COULD NOT SAY I WAS BLACK.. NOT EVER and that is the DIFFERENCE.

    The fact that is light skinned Blacks too means that the “Willie Lynch” worked very well and SO, it goes right back to WHITE supremacy and racism.

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  279. The argument that “My oppression is worse because I have all this bad stuff AND, on top of that, I have to deal with being X” is, indeed, the classic Oppression Olympics gambit.It presumes that theere’s a clear-cut and reductionist algebra of oppression when there is no such thing.

    Abagond feels he can understand racism in way that I simply can’t and never can because he’s black and I’m not.

    Ah, but he’s a man, isn’t he?

    So that means Peanut must logically understand oppression in a way that Abagond never, ever can fathom because she’s a woman.

    Oh, but then Peanut’s (presumably) straight. So she doesn’t really understand oppression. She has all that het privilege backing her up. Only a black LESBIAN can really understand what it`s like to not be privileged.

    Ah, but said lesbian is able in mind and body, isn`t she? She`s got more privileges than she can count. Why right over here I have a black lesbian who`s HIV positive, manic depressive AND a single-parent mother of an HIV positive child! Top that, agony sisters!

    And on and on…

    What this sort of discourse inevitably does is short circuit the ONLY adequate strategy whereby any part of this oppression can ever be addressed and that is through empathy and alliance-building.

    This, to my mind, is why this sort of discourse is so popular in the U.S. today. It is MUCH less threatening to engage in the Olympics of Oppression than it is to try and build meaningful bridges between excluded peoples. This, to my mind, is why all your American public schools fill your brains to the brimk with the idea that your precious “identities” and “heritages” are so unique and incomensurate.

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  280. “I am not sure if this is the case. So why half of the Caucasian people are not even recognized as whites in the US? (Middle Eastern people, South Asians…) Why are Muslims of any colour discriminated against? Why are white immigrants discriminated against?”

    Being Caucasian, in American, does not equate to whiteness. In the US you are white in the purest sense of the word. Here you pretty much have to be an Anglo-Saxon to be deemed white. Even dark Italians and Greeks are discriminated against because of there skin despite being white. Middle Easterners are considered Asians, not white. The reason why this is the case is because ‘white’ people in the US didnt want any people of color (Caucasian or not) taking part in white privilege. What good is being ‘white’ when Dravidian, Semites, and other colored Caucasians that dont look like you garner the same benefits?

    It was just easier back then to define whiteness and strictly European and label everyone else as colored.

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  281. “Oh, but then Peanut’s (presumably) straight. So she doesn’t really understand oppression. She has all that het privilege backing her up. Only a black LESBIAN can really understand what it`s like to not be privileged.”

    exactly..Thad. you got it.

    But the point is not who understands what, that doesn’t change the fact that the privilege is in fact there whether you understand it or not. so let’s not talk around the fact that the privilege is there to begin w/ or derail…

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  282. I can’t understand what its like to be a lesbian. I can only see things as a straight bw in America…exactly you got it thad. I can empathize w/ a struggle, but until I’ve lived it, I will never completely understand…

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  283. “Black Americans or African Americans get upset when I say that I am a Belizean American. I say this because it what I identify with. Ethnically I am a Belizean, by race however, I am not confused I am Black just like Obama. But also, like Obama, I was raised by my White grandmother too. No one says that I am mixed raced although I have many different indigenous backgrounds.”

    You should know that one of the current goals of the multiracial movement is to break the link between phenotype and ethnicity. The idea is that you should be able to identify by your ethnicity rather than your race. So in an ideal world, someone like you could publicly identify as Belizean rather than “black” (whatever that means).

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  284. Abagond sez:

    Wow, this is starting to turn into a “Go back to Africa” argument: blacks in America should shut up already because they have it better than people in Africa…

    Hey Abagond, how about you be intellectually honest and look at what I really said? I said ALL Americans complain about how they are sorely misunderstood and set upon by the world. It ain’t a specialty of black americans and I don’t think americans needs must go anywhere else other than where they are.

    In fact, I’m pretty sure that most of the rest of the world would much prefer it if you folks stayed right in North America. I’d wager most Iraqis and Afganis feel this way, just to name two peoples off the top of my head.

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  285. I’m sorry if you took offense to what I said Thad and I did say I was not here to belittle your experience. But the bottomline is, you really can’t judge or understand an experience until you’ve lived through it. You can do your best to understand, but you’ll never truly know until you’ve traded places. Not to say you don’t know what its like to be unprivileged in SOME ways, but others ways you prolly never understand. Just like I’ll never fully understand what its like to be a lesbian, I can only speak as to what I know. That is my point.

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  286. exactly..Thad. you got it.

    But the point is not who understands what, that doesn’t change the fact that the privilege is in fact there whether you understand it or not. so let’s not talk around the fact that the privilege is there to begin w/ or derail…

    Doesn’t it strike you in the least bit significant that black leaders hsitorically get killed or otherwise invalidated PRECISELY when they begin to talk about issues outside of the black population and link these up with forms of oppression other than race?

    Your apparent belief that the Oppression Olympics is the only legitimate way to deal with oppression has only one logical outcome, Abagond: the reduction of oppressed groups into ever-more smaller and alienated populations which are unable to amass any meaningful political power.

    What you propose is TRULY not talking about privilege, Abagond.

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  287. I can empathize w/ a struggle, but until I’ve lived it, I will never completely understand…

    You can NEVER “completely understand” anyone else’s experience, Peanut: not even your twin sister’s. In fact, I don’t think most people even “completely understand” their own experiences.

    So if “complete understanding” is the only basis we’ve got for any sort of understanding in this world, then we are well and truly f#$cked, aren’t we?

    Like


  288. on Fri 12 Mar 2010 at 18:49:05 Ó Dochartaigh

    Well said Thad, there are always people that have it worse, and there are always going to be black people that have it better than white or brown people. I realize there is racism in Brazil, but I wish more Americans, black and white, could have a more accepting attitude towards race like Brazil.

    I was on Guywhites blog recently, and all the these white dudes are freaking out because their gonna be a minority soon, and the white race is gonna die off and blah blah blah, this is America not Europe we need more diversity not less.

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  289. Sorry – comment I responded to above was to Peanut, not Abagond.

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  290. I don’t think we have a more “accepting” view of race in Brazil.

    I do think that there are two things that go on here that make race different:

    1) This is a personalist and cordial culture WHO a person is is much more important than any one qualifier you can attach to them. My friend João is my friend João, first and foremost, and a color and gender later. This causes it’s own problems, however, as it makes it hard for Brazilians to see racism in the sense that we talk about it here, i.e. as a social construct. Brazilians are prone to crying “racism!” when they feel that they, personally, have been discriminated against, whatever the nature of that discrimination.

    2) In general Brazilians are just not as binary and fanatic as Americans. Roberto da Matta has talked a lot about this. Brazilians tend to always seek a middle way, rather than an extreme. Ironically enough, I believe that this is at least partially a western african cultural relic.

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  291. Bummer. I just heard that cartoonist Glauco and his son Raoni have been murdered in São Paulo! :(

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  292. thad, do u or do u not believe there is something of whitye privilege just answer that…

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  293. I already answered that above, Peanut. Twice. Of course there’s white privilege. There are MANY forms of privilege.

    My point is and has been that these do not line up in a linear and reductionist way in a simple “algrebra of oppression”.

    My secondary point is that you believe that they do because you are a product of a society that has spent the last 40 years trying to defuse the potential for any real politics which could result in social change.

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  294. Hey Peanut! Have u or have u not ever been a member of the Communist Party?

    Gotta love that witch-huntin` rhetoric!

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  295. Sorry, folks. Trying to desperately avoid working here. Lazy piece of white trash that I am. :D

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  296. Thad, your sarcastic comments are really getting tired…and please stop derailing.

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  297. “I found it offensive and quite dismissive. It is just like what White people do, practice racism, and then say that it does not exist.”

    MoniQtee, I guess you just like to feel offended because I never said racism doesnt exist.Why are you twisting what I said?

    I said some young women on here have a good atitude how to deal with racism and feel confident about how they look.

    They recently were young girls, and , they have been raised right. They are sharp and know what is happening.

    And no one here is saying whites dont have privaledge in American society. I just seconded what Thad said about his immigrant experiance because I have had it too.

    Thad you say all that about American whining and the privalidged game , but, Ana’s article was all about calling out Imperialist privaleged travelers from the Empire, speaking about African Americans.Some Brazilians over whine about gringos this gringos that, and most of it is bs.You sure do, and its bs, you especialy do it when your arguments get weak.

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  298. I think BR you meant going off of what some of the women on here said…some can handle the stress well…

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  299. Thad said:
    You get privileges just from being an American, Peanut. Imagine having to deal with all you’re dealing with and not being an American.

    Excellent point Thad!
    Much as I love reading Abagond’s blog and relating to the black experience across the pond, I’m still amazed at how often the mere previlige of being a Yank is overlooked!

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  300. This “privaleged ” word is starting to lose its meaning. Its getting tossed back and forth like some weird hot potato.

    The more its tossed around the less credit I give it.

    I dont think any of you know the poverty my wife’s family came from. They came from a big family, they would go to those vegatable markets and pick over the vegatables thrown away to try to find something to bring home to eat.

    Her mother lost 4 or 5 children in childbirth….

    and they dont hate the gringos…mostly white college students hate the gringos, or red flaggers

    Guess what? Losing a loved one in death or a family member in death , especialy if its when they are young, trumps who is privaleged . I wish I could be privaliged to talk with the young loved family memebers I have lost

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  301. Thaddeus Said:

    “No, PF, I did indeed read Peanut’s post. Do you truly think media brainwashes people to the point where they’ll cut their wrists? Sure, maybe a few folks who have serious problems otherwise, but I don’t think this is the real issue.”

    PowerFigure’s Response to Thaddeus:

    T, either you’re not reading or not paying attention. Why would you ask that question, above, when in my previous response to you I clearly articulated that Peanut’s point was well made, because it encompassed much more than the mass media? In my response to you, I wrote:

    For those who live in a bubble, cut off from anything other than contact with the Internet, that response would make sense. However, those of us who face institutionalized and practical racism that stalks and attacks from every nook and cranny of our lives, who also are consumers of mass media/broadcast and narrowcast media, including the Internet, we know that young Black girls who might have normal growing pains, including problems with low self-esteem, might be a bit more challenged than those who only have growing pains, without having their race and their self-image assaulted constantly.

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  302. ” think BR you meant going off of what some of the women on here said…some can handle the stress well…”

    Peanut, you mean that I was saying what I was saying based on what some of the people said here? I was if tht is what you meant

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  303. I am definitly not saying I know what black girls are experiancing .I said the things I said based on what people are saying on here. Is any one telling me that the opinions on here arnt representative of issues you all are dealing with? Most of these women here were little girls very recently, like 10 or 15years ago.

    There are lots of good examples in the media for black girls to follow. You all dont know that in Brazil there are very few black actors in novelas, all the black shows are ones from the USA

    “Everyone hates Chriss”, “My Wife and Kids” they used to have the Will Smith show and others. Among the bad images you all see coming from the media in the USA, there are also very healthy examples of black Americans living positive lives with positive examples.

    and I am all for and very supportive of sufocating bad things said about black women in America.

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  304. Peanut, I very much apreciete your sharing your experiances here. They have been very inciteful and relevant.

    Your story of carrying your white doll on your trip with your parents to a plantation was precious, I dont think they could make a movie with that scene that could hit home as well as your description.

    I was sad to see how much you seemed upset about things you were seeing said on the internet.

    What ever this discusion has turned into, I am totaly with you about the negativity about black women going around on the internet and the media.

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  305. Thad, maybe it’s a Ph.D. to Ph.D. thang, but clearly, you and I are having communications problems!

    Like


  306. PowerFigure said:

    *****For those who live in a bubble, cut off from anything other than contact with the Internet, that response would make sense. However, those of us who face institutionalized and practical racism that stalks and attacks from every nook and cranny of our lives, who also are consumers of mass media/broadcast and narrowcast media, including the Internet, we know that young Black girls who might have normal growing pains, including problems with low self-esteem, might be a bit more challenged than those who only have growing pains, without having their race and their self-image assaulted constantly.*****

    And that is precisely what makes dismissive remarks unacceptable. I also say that is much more than a “bit more challenged.” It is a matter of self-identity and for anyone who says that it is not important then you will have to explain why the entire existence of humanity is hinged on finding out who and what we are.

    It is so much more than simply “self-esteem” issues. These are the mothers of our children of tomorrow. You must ask yourself how this will fester in years to come.

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  307. @peanut

    The answer is Mira because those people are NOT white. “White,” is a social construction. They may be classified as white or look white, but they’re not white. Also, in my experience, non-white muslims are far more discriminated against than the white european ones. Iraqi or Iranians are seldom considered white in my experience. If you broke them down into 3 races asians, white and blacks, actually I think they would be considered asian not white anyway.

    Yes, race is a social construct, but I thought all Caucasians are legally considered to be of the same race. Yet, like you said, Iraqi or Iranians are seldom considered white.

    I always thought “Asian” is a politically correct term for what is once called “yellow”. People from East Asia. Not all the Asian people. Are Russians (part) Asian?

    I respect your opinion, but I also think people need to try and understand white privilege and in my experience, not enough people accept that there is such a thing.

    Yes, there is a white privilege. I don’t deny it.

    @Thad

    Mira, seriously: many Americans think, for example, that certain Serbians hate the U.S. because said Serbians are “jealous” of the U.S.

    No s..t! I know about this. Most of the people in Serbia (or anywhere else for that matter) laugh at this. Some find it insulting, others are amused. “Stupid Americans” is the usual reaction to this.

    Yes, it amazes me to see Americans (not all of them, of course), think that others are jealous. Middle East, for example, is jealous of their democracy. So is Russia, I guess.

    @MoniQTee

    But Mira, by looking at me, you would not consider me mixed although I am.

    To me, it has nothing to do with physical appearance. As someone who is not used to contact with non-white people, I can’t tell who is mixed and who is not. What I’m saying, I’m not the best person for “judging” who looks mixed and who doesn’t.

    If your close ancestors were of different races, I would consider you as racially mixed even if you don’t look mixed. But the way you described yourself, I wouldn’t think “black”, but of course I respect the way you see yourself.

    Also, the story about your uncle is so sad. The worst part is forgetting about his non-white part of the family. Your family is your family. His kids are mixed in my book, btw, even if they look white. Nothing wrong in being mixed.

    So I guess what I am trying to say to you is people identify by CULTURE…not by how they look. Obama says he is Black because that is the CULTURE that he identifies with and that is understandable.

    Yes, I know. But if we’re talking about culture, Obama was raised by white Americans and not his African part of the family. He was raised in American culture, not in any of the African cultures.

    @Y

    Being Caucasian, in American, does not equate to whiteness.

    I get that, but it makes no sense. Caucasians are recognized as a race. Then how come half of the Caucasians belong to one race (white) and others are not?

    In the US you are white in the purest sense of the word. Here you pretty much have to be an Anglo-Saxon to be deemed white. Even dark Italians and Greeks are discriminated against because of there skin despite being white.

    I know. Frankly, I find it ridiculous. Italians and Greeks are white. Does this mean I am not white? It makes no sense. I am white. I don’t have to be anglo-saxon to be white or European. I am not any less European than someone from UK or Germany (who is white).

    It was just easier back then to define whiteness and strictly European and label everyone else as colored.

    Did you mean “define whiteness as strictly European”? But like you said, Italians and Greeks ARE European (not any less European than Western and Northern Europeans).

    @FG

    In many cases, mixed kids are treated as punching bags by black kids angry about mistreatment by whites. Alot of multiracials are scared by both white and black racism.

    That’s because being “mixed” is not really recognized as a category in America (at least it seems like it). So, if you are a child of an interracial couple, you are forced to choose a side and stick to it. Refusing to do it will make you an outcast, and you will hear bad things coming from both sides. You are biracial, right? I guess you know better than I am how it works.

    On the other hand, it’s not just in America or when it comes to race. In my part of the world, being mixed means your parents are of different ethnicity (meaning nationality, not race) or of different religions. I am somewhat mixed so I do know mixed people are encouraged to choose a side. On the other hand, refusing to pick a side won’t make you that much of an outcast.

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  308. B.R. sez:
    Thad you say all that about American whining and the privalidged game , but, Ana’s article was all about calling out Imperialist privaleged travelers from the Empire, speaking about African Americans.Some Brazilians over whine about gringos this gringos that, and most of it is bs.You sure do, and its bs, you especialy do it when your arguments get weak.

    Well, B.R. Ana is talking about socio-political power, not whether or not this individual or that individual is more oppressed. She wasn`t concerned with whether or not she is more oppressed: she is concerned with how certain symbolic constrcutions of Brazil are being given more play than others. If you notice the end of Ana’s article, it didn’t say “Oh, stop it you evil gringos because I’m so much more oppressed than you!” It said, “Hey, what’s this ‘sister’ business? We aren’t operating in anything approaching an egalitarian environment here.”

    B.F. sez:
    However, those of us who face institutionalized and practical racism that stalks and attacks from every nook and cranny of our lives, who also are consumers of mass media/broadcast and narrowcast media, including the Internet, we know that young Black girls who might have normal growing pains, including problems with low self-esteem, might be a bit more challenged than those who only have growing pains, without having their race and their self-image assaulted constantly.

    This presumes alot. It presumes, for example, that those black girls are subject to every other growing pain, PLUS racism while those “others” only have simple growing pains. It presumes, in short, a heirarchy of pain.

    I just got done reading “Dude, You’re a Fag”, an ethnography of masculinity in American high schools. In it, there’s this horrible story about a guy who came out in high school and the abuse he suffered from both staff and students which drove him straight out of the school. I think we can both agree that his “growing pains” which “assault self-image” encompass a series of things which most of your black girls won’t meet, just as their pains don’t completely match to the gay guy’s in that book.

    But I don’t think you can set that boy’s experience up in some sort of heirarchy of pain with regards to those girls. They’re both in a sh#$%y situation.

    I don’t think we’re having communication problems at all. I understand where you’re coming from. I don’t agree with the American myth that experiences are simultaneously wholly ineffable and unique, but that people who display certain identity markers can, among themselves, share complete understanding. I don’t think that black girls or gay boys “share” some great essential understanding amongst themselves that is totally opaque to the rest of the world.

    I mean, I look at MoniQuet`s statement:
    It is a matter of self-identity and for anyone who says that it is not important then you will have to explain why the entire existence of humanity is hinged on finding out who and what we are.

    …and I shake my head. Sure, self-identity is important. What I don`t believe is that there’s a correct construction of self-identity, however, which can be tied into “esteem-building activities” around the concept of race.

    Look, Ana and I saw “precious” this weekend and I had a very interesting itneraction with her which highlights how deeply tied Americans are to basic, dualistic notions of race as reality.

    In the film, Precious sez several times she wants a “light-skinned” boyfriend. When we got to talking about it, I had to explain to Ana that she didn’t mean”white”. Ana’s comment was “What do you mean? Light-skinned, right? So white.”

    “No, in the U.s., people can be white-skinned and black.”

    Now Ana knows this, she’s seen it, but she just can’t emotionally grasp it. The idea that someone can be phenotypically one way and yet claim to be something else entirely just doesn’t compute.

    And when we’re talking about thius stuff here, I think what could a “black American” notion of beauty do for some girl like Precious? She`s going to be told day in and day out that “beautiful black women” exist and then she’s going to be shown lists like the ones Abagond posts here. Well what the hell is that going to do for her self-image, exactly?

    This is what I`m trying to say: the intersections created between forms of oppression and dismissal do not work in a linear and reductionist fashion. “Black Barbie” isn’t a solution. Putting a character like Hanna Montanna onto a black body isn’t going to somehow magically result in feelings of “inclusion” and self-worth. Depending on the individual, they might actually create the opposite effect.

    Now, that said, yeah, I’d rather black barbies than wholly ubermensch barbies.

    What dismays me is that the discussion has been reduced to this level, as if this sort of thing somehow represents a real choice.

    S#$%, people are all happy about the Princess and the Frog because “finally we have a black Disney princess”, as if “black” somehow makes “Disney princess” an all together acceptable thing.

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  309. on Sat 13 Mar 2010 at 01:17:25 Ó Dochartaigh

    “The only time black women can be in film is if we are sexy jezebels getting naked or fat and pitiful ghetto people that play up to the white directors stereotypes.”

    Thandie Newton- W-Condalisa Rice

    Zoe Saldana- Star Trek- Nyota Uhura

    Vivica Fox- Independence Day- Jasmine Dubrow

    Whoopi Goldberg she is awesome in every movie she is in.

    Your making generalizations based on your own opinions, there are plenty of leading black female roles in American film that are not “fat, naked, or ghetto.

    Like


  310. “That’s because being “mixed” is not really recognized as a category in America (at least it seems like it). So, if you are a child of an interracial couple, you are forced to choose a side and stick to it. Refusing to do it will make you an outcast, and you will hear bad things coming from both sides. You are biracial, right? I guess you know better than I am how it works. ”

    You’re assuming that mixed race people can freely choose a side, though. The problem is that is often not the case. Both groups may exclude you because you don’t measure up to either of their standards of membership in terms of appearance or ancestry, and there’s nothing you can do to change those.

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  311. It seems like ethnicity is treated almost akin to ideology in Serbia. In the US, though, race remains an ascribed characteristic.

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  312. @abagond

    Hey I though Kaone Kario would fit in nicely with your ongoing list of beautiful black women. She has great eyes

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  313. OK, for those who care, ill offer MY view, as a white man….now obviously, because im reading this site, i find black women attractive. the only other white men who would read this site and not like black chicks would be right wing internet trolls looking for a fight.

    id like to talk about the ‘uncle milton’ theory, in which amazing BW walk right past WM and they dont notice, when other men will. This is sadly very true. For example, at the community collage i attend, which is in the city, so there is alot of diversity, ill be with some friends[in this example, white male friends] and a crrrrrrazy gorgeous black girl comes wlakin by, and my eyes follow and its like wow. i dont notice this with my ‘fellow WM’ which is strange. i think, for some reason, most white men just plainly dont consider that they could be compatable with a black woman. it could be they assume thiers too much of a cultural barrior, they could assume that she, a black woman, would not step outside her race herself, and sometimes, yes, it could very well be racism. i have heard things said like ‘there is a language barrior. i cant talk to those peole’ which is rediculous.

    AND!!! since were in the subject of racsm, ill tell another thing on white guys brains [everyones ears perking up?] when the subject of black women comes up, or if a bw walks by, etc, however the topic gets started, there is always one white guy who says something to the point of ‘ why would she like me? shes got all her men, with their big dicks, she dont want me.’ usually, this guy has a low self esteem, and is probly a bit of a closet case…but, for some reason, a group of white men out there are ‘hung’ up about the black male…um…package. they have a inferiourity complex, regarding themselves, which is racist is so many ways. 1 way is, it says every bm has a large package, and 2, it almost goes out of its way to say all black women are lustly, nimphy women, who only care about one thing,both of which, are not true and dangerous stereotypes.

    but, back on topic, [some]white men, sadly just dont consider black females as daing material. they just dont show up on the radar. the subconcious ‘girl watching ‘sector of their brain [98 percent of the male brain , as a matter of fact] just doesnt recognize when a black women walks by, even one that would make other guys sweat. and the second main reason is fear, which either it be a fear of rejection cuz of cultural differences, or penis envy of a fictional black man, who lives in their brain and shames them whenever they stand at the stall.
    but, hope is not lost for the white male race….im here as living proof, that not all of us are crazy. so, if your a gorgeous black babe, and you walk down the hallway, or the sidewalk, ill be drooling and rolling my tongue up from my shoes, so God Bless America!

    ps. this all being said, i, as a young white man, am put in a horrible position. i am represented by these crazy ignorant guys, and in turn, the younf black women out there wouldnt expect me to like them, thus, thwey dont see me, or white men, on THEIR radar! its a weird reverse affect, it seems the races are just not considering each other out of whats perceived as easiest, which is to stay with ones race..oh well. white guy OUT!

    pss. no, i dont hate white women, i just love allll women.

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  314. @Thad

    In the film, Precious sez several times she wants a “light-skinned” boyfriend. When we got to talking about it, I had to explain to Ana that she didn’t mean”white”. Ana’s comment was “What do you mean? Light-skinned, right? So white.”

    I had the same problem with Toni Morrison’s “Jazz”. It took me a while to realize “light skinned girl” wasn’t white.

    I am not sure if I should watch “Precious” or not. I like serious movies and dramas, but this one seems way too depressing.

    @FG

    You’re assuming that mixed race people can freely choose a side, though. The problem is that is often not the case. Both groups may exclude you because you don’t measure up to either of their standards of membership in terms of appearance or ancestry, and there’s nothing you can do to change those.

    Sorry, sorry, my mistake! Yes, I realize racially mixed people can’t choose a side. I realize there is such a thing to be too black for whites and too white for blacks. Not a nice situation, but I am not sure if I buy the “tragic mulatto” stereotype. After all, you are who you are, an individual. You don’t really have to explain anything to any of those groups. You don’t own them anything. Sure, you will encounter some difficulties in your social life (or in other areas of life), but there’s no point in trying to be something you’re not. It never works.

    In case of the ethnic relations on Balkans, in most of the cases, you can freely choose a side. However, you must work hard to prove yourself as loyal and true to only one ethnicity. That’s why many hard-core nationalists here are mixed.

    It seems like ethnicity is treated almost akin to ideology in Serbia.

    Yes, exactly. Not just Serbia, the whole Balkans. Less then a decade ago, people here killed each other over ethnicity (and religion). Race is not an issue- we are all white.

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  315. Peanut, I wanted to address another comment to you, based on your preocupation for young black girls and the images out there.

    If they could understand how deep the black woman is in shaping American charactor and identity, they wouldnt have to be affected by any petty negative images coming out.

    There is no better shining example than the histroy of black American woman singers . The list is long and glorious and it truly represents the soul of America.

    Bessie Smith, Dinah Washington, Ella Fitzgerald, Billie Holiday, Dorothy Dandridge, Sarah Vaghn, Betty Carter, Carmen Lundy, Nancy Wilson,Fontella Bass, Dianna Ross and the Supremse, Tamy Terrel,Martha and the Vandellas, Chaka Kahn,Aretha Franklin, Gladys Knight, Natalie Cole,Irene Cara, Minne Ripperton, Phylis Hymen, Beyonce, Ciara,Janet Jackson,Tina Turner, Mary J (cant spell her last name and excuse any other misspellings) and so so many more I cant call off the top of my head now….

    These women truly represent America and its culture, beauty and soul to the fullest.

    If young black girls were educated about this long line of true history , they would always have an unwavoring beacon of strength to look to and be proud of relating to black women who are truly extraordinarily beautiful in American culture.

    Like


  316. ok Thad, at this time, I wont contest your big words in your explanation….

    But one thing I would like an explanation about is your referance to the fact you were once an “exotic dancer”, which I saw you said in another thread.

    This could drasticly alter my opinion of you as just an academic…..

    Like


  317. Thad was an exotic dancer? :)

    Like


  318. Oing, Thad once shook his money maker for a living?

    Like


  319. Don’t get me wrong, this info doesn’t change my opinion on Thad. Still, it’s interesting to hear this. Never seen an exotic dance performance, male or female. I must admit male dancers sound more exciting to me.

    Like


  320. “Not a nice situation, but I am not sure if I buy the “tragic mulatto” stereotype. ”

    I sense that this stereotype is much less true today than it was, say, 20 years ago.

    Like


  321. “In case of the ethnic relations on Balkans, in most of the cases, you can freely choose a side. However, you must work hard to prove yourself as loyal and true to only one ethnicity. That’s why many hard-core nationalists here are mixed.”

    There’s a similar tendency here in the US, though presumably not as extreme. It’s been observed that multiracials who identify as black “compensate” for their background by embracing a black nationalistic ethos. That may be why Obama attended Reverend Wright’s church for all those years.

    Like


  322. “I’m 42 and I’ve been a dishwasher, short-order cook, book salesman, cornhusker, tree planter and even erotic dancer for almost all of my life”

    Here is Thad’s quote from the “can a white person have the black experiance” or something like that…..

    Its time to jack the shark on this one , Thad….

    Like


  323. But one thing I would like an explanation about is your referance to the fact you were once an “exotic dancer”, which I saw you said in another thread.

    This could drasticly alter my opinion of you as just an academic…..

    I can’t figure, for the life on me, why that would change your opinion of me as an academic… unless, of course, you have some really wild prejudices about academics.

    Do you have any idea of how many men and women have done sex work while they were in school? In many ways, it’s an ideal college job: lots of cash, flexible hours, often little work. B.R., you are seriously out of touch with life as it’s lived if you think people who go to university don’t get involved with sex work.

    In my case, I briefly worked as a male dancer in a strip club. This was when I was 21 years old. It was definitely an eye-opening experience and probably nothing like what you’re thinking it was like, B.R.

    It wasn’t fun, I’ll tell you that. It DID get me a lot of money, quickly, when I badly needed it. And no, you don’t have to be particularly sexy or dance well for this sort of job. There are “Chippendales”-style dancers and then there are the other guys…

    Take a guess at what is women’s #1 reason for going to a male strip show is. If you guess correctly, It’ll give you a handle on what I did.

    Like


  324. B.R. sez
    ok Thad, at this time, I wont contest your big words in your explanation….

    Huh? I said…

    Well, B.R. Ana is talking about socio-political power, not whether or not this individual or that individual is more oppressed. She wasn`t concerned with whether or not she is more oppressed: she is concerned with how certain symbolic constrcutions of Brazil are being given more play than others. If you notice the end of Ana’s article, it didn’t say “Oh, stop it you evil gringos because I’m so much more oppressed than you!” It said, “Hey, what’s this ’sister’ business? We aren’t operating in anything approaching an egalitarian environment here.”

    What “big words” are you seeing there, B.R.? “Individual”…? Or is it “socio-political” and “symbolic constructions” that are throwing you off? Neither of those two terms is particularly complicated.

    Like


  325. “Take a guess at what is women’s #1 reason for going to a male strip show is. If you guess correctly, It’ll give you a handle on what I did…”

    What? Dont I get dollars to doughnuts?

    You were one of the guys in the back rooms for private sessions…..?

    I thought Ana said something like “….imperialistic privaleged travelers from the empire, we despise you but we like to get your money….”

    Actualy I just brought it up here because everyone is throwing around “privaleged” as the all purpose word how to “flame ” somebody (ahhhh Jasmin nailed you bra)….

    No ,not prejudice about academics, only ones who think they know more about music than I do and seriously mischaractorise me in the process, I am the bandstand…oh yeah you are the floor boards…I guess we have something in common…

    Like


  326. Take a guess at what is women’s #1 reason for going to a male strip show is.

    Because they want to feel the power of being the one who is objectifying the opposite sex?

    Because they want to get at least an illusion of sexual freedom?

    I’d go to see sexy men dance… sexily. But if you (not you personally :D) don’t have to be sexy or know how to dance, then I am not sure I’m interested.

    Like


  327. White male said:

    “back on topic, [some]white men, sadly just dont consider black females as daing material. they just dont show up on the radar. the subconcious ‘girl watching ’sector of their brain [98 percent of the male brain , as a matter of fact] just doesnt recognize when a black women walks by, even one that would make other guys sweat. and the second main reason is fear, which either it be a fear of rejection cuz of cultural differences, or penis envy of a fictional black man, who lives in their brain and shames them whenever they stand at the stall.”

    PowerFigure:

    White Male, thanks for making me laugh today! You are hilarious dude! Honest, but still hilarious in your delivery.

    I’ve found everything you’re saying to be true, as I have dated Black men, and I’ve had very close friendships with White men. I think the main reason my single White male friends have never tried to take it to the next level, in my experiences, has had more to do with fear of rejection, and that could have been based on “penis envy,” as you put it. However, I will tell you (in secret, ha ha) that I’ve gotten quite a few proposals for taking things to the next level from my married White male friends. Of course, I have and will always turn them down, but I do find it interesting that the married ones have been willing to go for the gusto, when the single ones seem to be reluctant.

    Like


  328. Isn’t that because single ones could be more serious about dating? You can never know for sure, but in theory, they might be interested in dating.

    The married ones simply want sex or an affair. They are not seriously interested in a relationship.

    Like


  329. Mira: “Isn’t that because single ones could be more serious about dating? You can never know for sure, but in theory, they might be interested in dating.

    The married ones simply want sex or an affair. They are not seriously interested in a relationship.”

    PowerFigure
    Mira, that has always been my take on it. The married ones have a built-in understanding for the rejection they get–after all, they’re married. They don’t have to take it as a rejection of them, outright. One of my co-worker/friends once told me my first name was the same as his wife’s (and that was true), so he said it would be great because he wouldn’t have to worry about calling out the wrong name!

    Like


  330. Mira sez:
    Because they want to feel the power of being the one who is objectifying the opposite sex?

    Got it in one, Mira.

    The number one occasion that women go to strip bars being divorce parties.

    There are two types of male dancers: sexy Chippendale types and not-so-sexy types who generally do sort of a male drag to get the women riled up. That was one of the things I did. You basically go out their to take abuse.

    Think of it as sort of like being a rodeo clown, keeping the bulls distracted. (Or in this case the cows.)

    Like


  331. ahh Thad, it just gives you a little depth and humanity. Thanks for sharing. Heck, Ive played for bordelos before myself.

    Which leads me to ask, what is up with Copacabana these days? I was there one week before carnival and of course Help is closed and Sobre dos Ondas and very little on the street soliciting. It was extremly tame compared to what Ive seen it be like before. Is Copacabana being turned into 42nd street now?

    Like


  332. Thanks for an explanation, Thad!

    I must admit, “sexy Chippendale types” sound better, but aren’t they… um, not-quite heterosexual?

    Sorry about the stereotype.

    Now when I think about it, you’re right: whether a male dancer is sexy, attractive and can dance is really not important. All women want is to feel the power and objectify a bit.

    One might think it’s humiliating for the dancer, but then again, the fact women need to go to a night club and pay to release a bit of sexual tension is also sad.

    @PowerFigure

    I must admit, those guys are strange. Why don’t they approach when they’re single and available? Do they think you should be happy that they even approach even if married? Disgusting.

    Like


  333. “AND!!! since were in the subject of racsm, ill tell another thing on white guys brains [everyones ears perking up?] when the subject of black women comes up, or if a bw walks by, etc, however the topic gets started, there is always one white guy who says something to the point of ‘ why would she like me? shes got all her men, with their big dicks, she dont want me.’ usually, this guy has a low self esteem, and is probly a bit of a closet case…but, for some reason, a group of white men out there are ‘hung’ up about the black male…um…package. they have a inferiourity complex, regarding themselves, which is racist is so many ways. 1 way is, it says every bm has a large package, and 2, it almost goes out of its way to say all black women are lustly, nimphy women, who only care about one thing,both of which, are not true and dangerous stereotypes.

    but, back on topic, [some]white men, sadly just dont consider black females as daing material. they just dont show up on the radar. the subconcious ‘girl watching ’sector of their brain [98 percent of the male brain , as a matter of fact] just doesnt recognize when a black women walks by, even one that would make other guys sweat.”

    Response:pretty much what we’ve all been saying alot of wm just don’t even consider bw to be fully women…so

    Like


  334. Peanut: “Response:pretty much what we’ve all been saying alot of wm just don’t even consider bw to be fully women…so”

    PowerFigure

    Peanut, I hear ya! Still, it’s hard for me to be mad at ’em, especially those who just don’t see us, or for whom it just register that we are there, because that’s pretty much how I react to them … as sad as it may be. WM just don’t “register” for me the way BM do.

    Like


  335. Hey Peanut,

    when it comes to WM, for me, it’s like I see ’em and don’t see ’em, which is kind of how they might see BW. In our society with all its racial illness and politics, I can understand that “response,” or lack thereof.

    I’m not saying it’s right, or that it is as it should be, but I truly do understand it. For me, it’s not that white men are invisible, but it’s more that in terms of “datable men,” they just don’t matter, or don’t register. They don’t factor into the equation, so to speak. Maybe it’s the same way for most of them when it comes to Black women.

    Hey Mira,

    I too have been disgusted by the “come ons” I’ve gotten over the years from married white men. Since most of them have been co-workers/colleagues, I still have to work with them. So, I’ve learned to make it into a little “jokey joke,” to ease the tension.

    Like


  336. To powerfigure,

    thanks for liking my comment. its a good feeling hearing people actually discussing things, as opposed to yelling at everyone…

    also, just ot add another thing for the entire group, i dont know if saying ‘white men dont think black women are human’ is correct. yea, 60-70 years ago, but if were talkin educated, city dwelling americans, i dont tihnk anyone doesnt consider anyone else to be human…..but i think the point i was trying to make with the ‘bw just dont register sometimes’ argument was that its not about wm thinking your not huamn, its about things in our culture [american culture] like media, and segregation, etc that subconsiously places thoughts and judgements in ones head. so, after awhile, the white guy might be told so many times by his society that he belongs with a woman that looks like him, that he doesnt even bother to notice a bw.

    it happens with us all, racially, and otherwise. example- we are taught to keep away from those who are different from us. so, a person might not talk\ask out a another perosn if they look as if they fit a different ‘group’. this could be because they have died hair and piercings and tattoos. so, that little voice in our head has kept us from knowing this person, because their is a social stigma that keeps us from knowing them….pretty skrewed up. and weve ALL done it. look how people treat the homeless, or poor in general..look how we treat obese people? im sure their feeling are hurt from being rejected so much. idk, food for thought.

    Like


  337. When are people going to leave black woman the heck alone?? NBC needs to shove its special up its butt…they don’t care about bw and not all of us are so single and desperate

    Like


  338. why don’t we do a special on white women and their relationship problems and why the divorce rate is so damn high…that’s something id like to watch

    Like


  339. Peanut –

    Co-sign!

    Like


  340. White male says,

    also, just ot add another thing for the entire group, i dont know if saying ‘white men dont think black women are human’ is correct. yea, 60-70 years ago, but if were talkin educated, city dwelling americans, i dont tihnk anyone doesnt consider anyone else to be human…..but i think the point i was trying to make with the ‘bw just dont register sometimes’ argument was that its not about wm thinking your not huamn, its about things in our culture [american culture] like media, and segregation, etc that subconsiously places thoughts and judgements in ones head. so, after awhile, the white guy might be told so many times by his society that he belongs with a woman that looks like him, that he doesnt even bother to notice a bw.

    laromana says,
    In the 21st century it’s no longer good enough to blame ANTI-BW IGNORANCE/RACISM on American culture, media, or segregation. WM who continue to view BW in a NEGATIVE/RACIST way need to take responsibilty for their attitudes/actions and learn to approach BW as human women not STEREOTYPES. In other words, if this type of WM treats NON-BW in a NORMAL, NON-STEREOTYPICAL way, he needs to extend this same treatment to BW.

    Like


  341. laromana says,
    “In the 21st century it’s no longer good enough to blame ANTI-BW IGNORANCE/RACISM on American culture, media, or segregation. WM who continue to view BW in a NEGATIVE/RACIST way need to take responsibilty for their attitudes/actions and learn to approach BW as human women not STEREOTYPES. In other words, if this type of WM treats NON-BW in a NORMAL, NON-STEREOTYPICAL way, he needs to extend this same treatment to BW.”

    Thanks Laromana. Well said.

    We all have to start thinking for ourselves at some point, and stop blaming the media and some ubiquitous “culture” for our actions and thoughts. We’re not robots. Even though the media and the advertisers do attempt to “program” us as if they think we are robots, the truth is, we’re not. Still, a lot of us are too lazy to think for ourselves. It’s OUCH painful to have to face up to the truth about self, and it’s much easier to just let the media “run” us.

    Case in Point: Someone mentioned the show Nightline did about black women not being able to find a man. That is simply media programming–not reality. Every black woman I know who wants a man, has one. And I know plenty of white women who don’t have a man, who want one.

    I don’t buy the “I can’t find no man” argument. I think just about any woman who wants a man can have one, and those who want and don’t have aren’t doing what they need to do to find one–if they really want one.

    I also believe that sometimes, anyone, male or female, might need to take a break from dating. It’s a good way to chill out, and just look at your life, and figure out who and what you need and want in it. But don’t, for one second, allow the media to set your agenda, or your idea about what’s going on with black women in general. We are not a monolithic group. We don’t all have the same life experiences. And we are not all fat, single and alone. If we are overweight and want to change that fact, then we are smart enough to develop a plan for eliminating that state of existence. My point is, we are all responsible for what we allow into our lives. We are not slaves to the media, to do and think and be whatever the media says we think, or that we are.

    Like


  342. I don’t know what world u live in, White men are highly attracted to Black women. In fact, they are attracted to the race as a whole. The games people play to keep people in a submissive state, is just what is happenning here. It’s like school-age children, slandering the one they want in secrecy-(even if it is obvious). Stop writing about stuff like this, who cares what they think [in other words]. This type of attention only lends credence to their games. We [as Black Folk] love each other, screw the world that says otherwise….

    Like


  343. peanut: I am mixed race and have had many white people compliment me and also on some of my black features such as my curvy bum and full lips. some of the whiter features such as my slim nose have also been commented on. some scenarios:

    one white girl said to me ‘your features are quite white aren’t they i mean your nose is slim’.
    -I had a guy once say what are you, are you spanish-i said now i’m half black.
    a guy i knew once said ‘you are pretty for a black girl’
    -another guys compared me my more darker skinned black friend and said infront of her that i was more attractive because i was part white and had the best of both worlds-idiot.

    the truth is my features are probably more black than white-like halle berry and rosario dawson i obviously don’t look white.

    I have also had down right mean scenarios where racist white people have plucked a ‘saphire’ or masculine looking black women out of their head as a comparison and had a guy swear down that i must look more like my dad (without even having ever saw him)-to him because I am part black i cannot possibly look like my white mum or a woman.

    all the above to scenarios have been offensive, some of them may be seen as compliments but they were backwards compliments, still dreaded in racism. even though i’m mixed half black I have still gone through racist crap. either i’m considered as being more attractive to people by virtue of being part white or people have not even wanted to see me as beautiful because I am black. either my whiteness is coveted or I am seen as too black to be beautiful. not skinny enough, not white enough in their eyes.

    Like


  344. Jennifer said:
    “all the above to scenarios have been offensive, some of them may be seen as compliments but they were backwards compliments, still dreaded in racism. even though i’m mixed half black I have still gone through racist crap. either i’m considered as being more attractive to people by virtue of being part white or people have not even wanted to see me as beautiful because I am black. either my whiteness is coveted or I am seen as too black to be beautiful. not skinny enough, not white enough in their eyes.”

    Jennifer:

    I am a black woman, with white ancestors, but I am not bi-racial, and evidently, I too look too black to be white and too white to be black as well. My point is, you don’t even have to be bi-racial, or have recent “white blood” in your body, in order to have light skin, or any other features people consider to be “white.”

    I’ve gone through similar scenarios as you described. The questions: Are you Hispanic? (especially since I live in Texas); Are you mixed? One Italian co-worker once even told me “you could pass for Italian!” I cannot tell you how much that offended me. Why would anyone say that to another person? Who wants to pass for anything? Something that I will never forget is something that hurt my feelings even more. At one university where I worked, one day I wore a gold silk long sleeved blouse to work, with black slacks, and one of the black students working in the office told me, “You look like a rich white woman.” I don’t know why, but that statement haunts me to this day. I just could never understand why that young lady felt the need to say that to me.

    Anyway, I just wanted to let you know you’re not alone, and that all of the people who suffer from having to put up with such ignorance are not even bi-racial.

    Like


  345. powerfigure: thank you, for the reply and sorry about my annoying typos, I was in a rush. I can imagine my experiences are also similar to lighter complected black women or latinos who are clearly part black like rosario dawson and zoe saldana. Have you found like me though that despite that at times people have tried to differentiate you from being an authentic black woman, because you are clearly not white some people have still been racist towards you because to them you are just another black woman? it is experiences like that which have made me see myself as more black than white. perhaps if my phenotype was less similar to alicia keys and halle berry and more like jennifer beals I would feel differently.

    Like


  346. Jennifer: You’re welcome, and never forget that you are not alone. It seems that race and skin color will always be insurmountable issues for some in the world, and there does not seem to be much anyone can say or do to change that fact, unfortunately.

    I think it would hurt me, psychologically, if I didn’t already have a strong “identity,” and if I didn’t already identify myself with my race. I live in the U. S. south, and I grew up with many, many blacks who were just as light skinned, or even lighter than me, with so-called “Anglo” features, such as long, straight hair or long curly hair. Living in communities where no one questioned my race or ethnicity based on my appearance, I think, helped me tremendously in terms of developing self esteem and strong sense of who I am as a black woman. My mother’s mother was half white, and my father’s father was either half or one-fourth white, so there are plenty of Caucasian genes floating around in the roots of the family tree.

    I also have Native American ancestors on both sides, as do many, many southern black people. Still, we self-identify as black, and are proud of it. We’re unshakeable, and sometimes I think the comments, when they’re insulting, are not just a blatant display of ignorance. Sometimes I think they are actually meant to shake your foundation so that you no longer know who or what you are. I think it’s akin to or a part of the “divide and conquer” strategy that is used in war.

    Still, I think James Brown said it best for me. Say it loud, I’m black and I’m proud!

    Like


  347. “It strikes me as weird, how some men will not notice a beautiful black woman almost as if they are not viable mates kinda like we’re a different species.”

    I’ve came to the conclusion a while ago that many whites (as well as other non-Blacks) actually do believe that Blacks are a species unto themselves.

    Like


  348. Okay, where do you people live? My whole life, I have been complimented Especially by white people. I wen to a predominantly white college and was called “beautiful” a lot. People say that to me all the time. And it’s weird, because I am VERY hard on myself. Esp. after childbearing. And c-sections and all that stuff. And. I am not “bi-racial”. I have ancestors from Europe and America- (first nations people, is what we call them in Canada- Native Americans). But mostly, the dominant aspect of my features and skin color, butt shape and hair is African. I have snide, insecure or ignorant people comment on my features as not being “white enough”. But seriously, for the most part, all I get is the affirmation of being beautiful. Like right now, even when I am down in the dumps and don’t feel like my usually sparkly self. When people have insulted me, it’s usually been some guy whom I unwittingly rejected or some jealous person. The attraction from white guys depends on how willing the black woman is to accept it. Have you ever heard “the man chases a woman until she catches him?”. I have been rejected by black men and white men, but honestly, it’s usually when I have been underconfident.
    I think I am your basic, average, brownskinned black woman. I am short. Sometimes heavier, sometimes lighter (in pounds) But I KNOW it’s my spirit (and amazing style) that catches attention. I am married, and it is my spirit, which makes or breaks my marriage. Really and truly it is. Ladies of all hues- love yourselves. Exercise, read books, go to museums, watch sports, love life. Think, breathe and think. The ignorant white man or black man or Asian man who is on about your blackness as a negative is usually ignorant and unattractive in his ignorance. Do you want a stupid man? I have yet to meet an intellectual, dynamic and spiritually rich man who got hung up on a woman’s race. Cowardly man aren’t even attractive. Some guy who is tripping on race is a guy who is boring, unadventurous and unappealing. I have had all types of men attracted to me. My friend who is beautiful and mixed race taught me something about being a beautiful woman. Relax. She has been through it too. She has felt ugly (like we all have) and felt that her beauty was used against her and all that jazz. BUT, you have to got to relax and love yourself. YES, there is racism. Ridiculous amounts, but there is also so much power that we possess. My life isn’t perfect. I struggle every single day, but the one thing I realize is that beauty and sexuality is a mind game. Being physically attractive isn’t the issue now, and white men aren’t the issue. It’s loving myself. Not just how I look, but tolerating mistakes, tolerating the humility of growth, and being okay with not doing things perfectly. Giving myself chances in my life. This is beyond race, this is about loving the spirit within.

    Like


  349. Great post MotherofLove! I would like to read more from you on these subjects, particularly regarding attraction. Men are weird. Being pretty doesn’t attract them, but I am confused as to what does. I guess your right in that it’s confidence.

    What I will never understand is what men look for in women. There are some women that women think are absolutely beautiful (and they are), but men totally ignore them.

    What do you mean attraction and beauty are a game?

    Like


  350. PS
    Rejection is a part of life. Today, I saw myself on film (I am an actor) and I just cringed. I was, however, playing a junkie who was dead (long story). It was a character I played and I think I played it well (at times). However, i did not feel cute. Such is the actor’s life. You are always different people. And I think that makes me see things about attraction that I would not otherwise.
    However, yesterday, I had retwisted my almost dredlock twists, and walked downtown in this small, midwestern city in which I live. Many men passed me. I found, (and I am ashamed to admit it) that I made eye contact with a couple of guys. They were all very cute. I notice that I can feel invisible to most guys, except very cute ones! LOL! It’s strange. I was at a bar once with about three female friends. Black. All gorgeous. One woman, mixed race (by that I mean, two “ethnic” parentes) was talking to this scrubby white guy who had a girlfriend. This girl is gorgeous. Full figured, (like Betty Boop) and big eyes. We were all yummy. The skinny, too young looking tattooed skater dude chatting her up had, she found out from his coworkers, a girlfriend. The beautiful girl said, “Guys with girlfriends always are after me. Like that’s all I’m good enough for.’ I am telling you. Those were her issues around race. Because I am less “exotic” than she. But I didn’t grow up in this racist little city. And my mother told me to value my stuff. I can have low self esteem like the rest of us, but I do value myself. Anyway, my hair was blown out to an insane, fro-like style. And the cutest guy there told my friend “She is beautiful.” Unlike my exotic friend with the big breasts and big eyes, I have this almost odd expectation of being loved and nurtured. I am married to a man who is quite loving to me. I resist and ignore guys who don’t treat me with a certain amount of respect. I am not some lightskinned, straight haired Beyonce type. But I think I exude a different vibe. On a strictly unconscious, unspoken level. Beliefs are tangible, however. As an actor, I deal with beliefs and charisma and beauty ALL THE TIME. It’s your belief. Really. And your energy. I refuse to put some white man on a pedestal. A lot of stuff around race is envy and self loathing on the part of the racist. Black people were the first people on the planet. Re’ the gorilla thing. We are animals. We all look like our cousins, the chimps and the gorillas. I always thought my husband looked like this shvved dog in a photo. I think black people look like other primates and white people look almost canine. So what? We ARE animals, so what? Are white people less than because they resemble canines? Are black people less than because we resemble other primates. Gorillas don’t systemtatically destroy the environment, genocide their own species, or create new strains of disease. Canines don’t either. Get over crazy ass white and black and Asian folks when it comes to sex and love. They are boring and un-fun anyway.

    Like


  351. Aye,

    It’s best to let it out by burst, and then slowly crawl back toward some kind of rationality.

    Although, i don’t know why racially based attraction always sound ugly and lame.

    Like


  352. Racially based attraction sound lame to me because no two human beings look alike, and being attracted to one particular race says nothing about that person’s true preferences (when it comes to physical features). Race is not a biological fact, so “not being attracted to black women” says nothing about said man’s preferences, but it says a lot about his racism.

    Also, “being attracted to black women only” says volumes, and it also has nothing to do with physical features a man finds attractive on a woman.

    Like


  353. MotherofLove said: “The ignorant white man or black man or Asian man who is on about your blackness as a negative is usually ignorant and unattractive in his ignorance. Do you want a stupid man? I have yet to meet an intellectual, dynamic and spiritually rich man who got hung up on a woman’s race. Cowardly man aren’t even attractive. Some guy who is tripping on race is a guy who is boring, unadventurous and unappealing.”

    Point well made! This is my whole thing too, and it’s the reason why it doesn’t make a whole lot of difference to most black women, that white men are not “attracted” to them, in droves. Many, if not most, white men are unaccepting of a black person as a person–meaning they are racist in their thinking toward all blacks, not just black women. What black female in her right mind, pretty or not, would want to lay down to sleep at night with a racist white man who feels she has no right to considered a human being? A show of hands please?!

    And therein lies the rub. We’re just “not there yet,” as human beings, especially in America. Many members of the “majority race” still have a need to “divide and conquer” those who don’t look the way they do, especially if any of their ancestors came from Africa.

    Race is a social construct, with no real meaning. There are people in my family who have skin that is as light, or even lighter, than that of many so called “white” people, and some of them have natural blond hair and gray or green eyes. And they will get super angry with anyone who confuses them with a white person. I come from a truly “mixed” American family, and I wish that race did not matter. But it does.

    Like


  354. MotherofLove says,
    “The ignorant white man or black man or Asian man who is on about your blackness as a negative is usually ignorant and unattractive in his ignorance. Do you want a stupid man? I have yet to meet an intellectual, dynamic and spiritually rich man who got hung up on a woman’s race. Cowardly man aren’t even attractive. Some guy who is tripping on race is a guy who is boring, unadventurous and unappealing.”

    PowerFigure says,
    Point well made! This is my whole thing too, and it’s the reason why it doesn’t make a whole lot of difference to most black women, that white men are not “attracted” to them, in droves. Many, if not most, white men are unaccepting of a black person as a person–meaning they are racist in their thinking toward all blacks, not just black women. What black female in her right mind, pretty or not, would want to lay down to sleep at night with a racist white man who feels she has no right to considered a human being? A show of hands please?!
    And therein lies the rub. We’re just “not there yet,” as human beings, especially in America. Many members of the “majority race” still have a need to “divide and conquer” those who don’t look the way they do, especially if any of their ancestors came from Africa.
    Race is a social construct, with no real meaning.

    MotherofLove and PowerFigure,
    I strongly agree with the comments both of you have made. The ANTI-BW RACISM/COWARDICE BW are subjected to from WM/NON-BM (and MANY BM) in America is evidence of their unwillingness to treat BW like NORMAL, HUMAN WOMEN.

    I do believe, however, that BW/PRO-BW ADVOCATES need to continue CHALLENGING/CONDEMNING/DESTROYING ANTI-BW RACISM wherever BW’s image is DEGRADED/DEMEANED/DISRESPECTED.
    Unfortunately, it will take a DELIBERATE CHANGE in the NEGATIVE PERCEPTION of Black beauty from being ugly (SOLELY because it is Black) to a more ACCURATE PERCEPTION of BW that acknowledges BW COME IN A DIVERSE RANGE OF BEAUTY/ALL FORMS OF AFRICAN BEAUTY ARE BEAUTIFUL.

    Like


  355. laromana says, “I do believe, however, that BW/PRO-BW ADVOCATES need to continue CHALLENGING/ CONDEMNING/DESTROYING ANTI-BW RACISM wherever BW’s image is DEGRADED/DEMEANED/DISRESPECTED.
    Unfortunately, it will take a DELIBERATE CHANGE in the NEGATIVE PERCEPTION of Black beauty from being ugly (SOLELY because it is Black) to a more ACCURATE PERCEPTION of BW that acknowledges BW COME IN A DIVERSE RANGE OF BEAUTY/ALL FORMS OF AFRICAN BEAUTY ARE BEAUTIFUL.”

    PowerFigure

    Amen, Laromana! And since we’re on the topic of what is or is not “ugly,” I have one question: Is there anything uglier than racism?

    I rest my case.

    Like


  356. PowerFigure:

    I can’t help but think about Dr. Laura’s comments to the beautiful black woman who called in to her show for advice. The black woman, who called herself “Jade,” is married to a white man, but was calling Dr. Racist, oops, I mean Dr. Laura, for advice about how to approach the topic of racism and racist statements uttered by her husband’s family and/or friends, in her presence. Her question was completely ignored when Dr. Laura went off on a racist rant that revealed clearly to anyone with a brain that she was an even bigger racist than any of the people Jade called in about.

    Larry King had them both, the beautiful black woman, and the Dr. It was an interesting show, to say the least!

    Like


  357. @ PowerFigure

    Oh! What happened on Larry King??? I didn’t know about that.

    Like


  358. King, you can visit this website, and it gives an account of what happened, as well as video. Dr. Laura supposedly has resigned her job as a radio talk-show host, after the incident. She says her resignation is not because of the incident, but one can only wish that if it had nothing to do with the incidence, that she had resigned long before the incident. I think it is just another case of a racist white woman who couldn’t stand the idea of a black woman being married to a white man. I think it pissed her off and she went on an “N” word rant, showing the world who she really was all along.

    http://mediamatters.org/blog/201008120045

    Like


  359. ‘Racism’ is a meaningless words that multi-culti Universalist morons use to charge heretics with. May as well call me a “witch”.

    All the attractive black men and women look white or Asian, and usually are part white or Asian. I’ve lived in places with lots of blacks and I’ve never seen one in-person that I found attractive.

    And people who use PC crap like ‘n’ word are faggots and pussies who should have their children taken from them. You subhuman cowards really irk me.

    Like


  360. Abagond:

    All of the envy and hatred of “The Black Female” is mind-blowing to me. Whitemen in europe and the middle-east used and abused blackwomen for centuries, and they have the nerve to talk s**t about them, Really? And, let’s not leave out asian and native-american men as well, because they have “Unclean Hands” as well. All women on this planet have african blood in them, because of slavery and colonization…Spain, Portugal, Greece, Italy, Turkey, The Middle East, South Asia, Pacific Isles, and The Americas. I hate repeating myself, but young sistas and brothas don’t know their history as much as they should.

    Tyrone
    Sugar & Spice…Sistas On Top

    Like


  361. Lot of hateful comments on here! I love the variety of races.colours,looks etc ..whatever we like to call it! that we have in the world..it makes life much more exciting..people need to embrace that humans look different! and that should be celebrated by all!.I am a white guy and I love Black women..They have adorable features,the brown skin is delightful! the full lips are super sexy! lovely shaped bodies and curly black hair! yummy..I also like women of other races and hate to see people trying to change themselves to suit a supposed idea of beauty! We are born a certain way..and that is the way it is ! stay healthy and look after ones self is all that’s needed! The celebrity world doesn’t help matters for women ,with many females having regular surgery ,which always shows and looks desperate..also photo-shopping is creating a bad image..i have seen many black girls with there skin lightened on pics! why? I want to see a black woman with dark skin! I like her with dark skin.. thankyou! If your a racist then your a racist and that is your problem and you are very small minded! i have seen too much racism on here and its pathetic! life is too short for that crap! I think I will head out and find myself a black goddess! cant wait!

    Like


  362. Black women are beautiful in any color. They can have dark skin, light skin, brown skin, yellow skin, or red skin. All skin colors are beautiful, and the sooner we all get beyond the idea of skin color, and focus more on the color of our character, the better off we’ll all be as a society, as a civilization.

    Read Silver: Currents of Change, by Beax Rivers. It’s about a black girl who looks white. She’s beautiful, but hates white people. Looks white, hates white people? Come on! And it’s a love story! Very good too. Shows how screwed up we are in America over skin color. Let’s get over it. Please.

    Like


  363. It isn’t a “monkey” or “gorilla” thing, it’s an attitude, aggressiveness & anger issue that explains why white men rarely find black women attractive.
    I think this comes from blacks being primarily a matriarchal race where the females do most of the work, raise & discipline the kids.

    Like


  364. Get real. First, is it racism that drives black men to white women? Second, black woman are loud, abusive (as are the men), violent. Lastly, as told to other men by black men, the black woman dont practice hygiene like white woman. This BS about whites tanning to look like blacks of course is wrong. Tanning evens out skin tone, helps with depression in some cases and the darker people tan they look hideous. Trust me, if blacks look at their behavior which is displayed daily (rude, loud, dishonest, lazy) you will see racism has little to do with it but you manage to fill the stereotype to a t. BTW, have you ever seen a group of whites demolish a city, loot and burn, and murder because things dont go there way?

    Like


  365. @loug1966

    Doug1111 – is that you?

    Like


  366. It seems like it, Demerera.

    Like


  367. on Wed 2 May 2012 at 17:33:54 phoebeprunelle

    @Mira,

    Actually–and this is just where I grew up and what I have seen–big breasts on a slender woman is not all that uncommon, particulary on girls in African countries. Yes–. LOL

    Girls in my home country are known to be on the slim side with a minimum cup size of DD. I kid you not! They don’t have big booties or wide hips–although it could change if she begins to eat the wrong foods–but in general, East African women can be quite busty and slim.

    Also West African girls can be too. This is a combination of genetics, diet and climate. The diet in Africa will significantly impact a girls breast size and lack there of . The more complex carbs (fufu, injera, ugali, beans, chickpeas, lentils)–in the right portions, the less animal fat (dairy, meat) the bigger her breast and the slimmer her hips and thighs. Factor in that the vitamin D intake is high due to many parts of Africa being sunny and warm–which in turn metabolizes carbs better.

    I think it would do African Americans wonders to just visit their ancestral homeland and see for themselves that the reality is black women there come in all phenotypes–and they are STILL black women–no mistaking it.

    Like


  368. Makes me laugh reading these comments, claiming many excuses but the reality is black women on general are ugly.

    Like


  369. on Wed 2 May 2012 at 17:47:36 phoebeprunelle

    Although I understand this may not be all that relevant to white beauty standards or the post at large–the above that I described is the unmentioned African beauty standard.

    Plenty of African girls and women look this way, but they don’t make a big deal out of it in their daily lives. It is only during traditional ceremonies, parties, special occasions where this could potentially be a problem for young women who don’t fit this standard. If you are asked to do any traditional dancing–your breasts also have to dance, so flat chested or oddly shaped girls don’t get asked to present the dances. Not fair, but such is life.

    Like


  370. on Wed 2 May 2012 at 17:57:32 phoebeprunelle

    ?

    Yes:

    Berlin during WWII
    The Bosnian and Herzegovina war

    What more do you need? Cause I could name plenty.

    Like


  371. loug1966: “BTW, have you ever seen a group of whites demolish a city, loot and burn, and murder because things dont go there way?”

    Historical documentation of whites demolishing, looting, burning cities “because thing don’t go there (should be “their”) way:

    -Greenwood, Oklahoma

    -Rosewood, Florida

    -New York City, NY (during the 1865 Draft Riots)

    -Chicago 1919 Race Riot

    -1983 invasion of the tiny nation of Grenada by the United States

    Just to name a few.

    Like


  372. Ooops.

    That should be 1863 Draft Riots.

    Like


  373. on Wed 2 May 2012 at 20:05:55 phoebeprunelle

    Uh in addition to WWII, and The Bosnian War, don’t forget WWI, Apartheid riots during the 80’s.

    So yeah.

    Like


  374. If Black women were/are so ugly, then why were they raped en masse by so many whites. During slavery. When considered “subhuman”? Not even miscegenation laws could keep the pink willy away from poor slave women.

    Like


  375. on Thu 3 May 2012 at 03:44:55 duckduckgoofs

    I have to admit that darq has a point about white men raping black women. I see it on the news all the time. Like Tawana Brawley and Crystal Mangum. Did I leave any out?

    Like


  376. If black women were so beautiful why the lack of black porn? White women are men’s choice for a reason. Make all the excuses you wish.

    Like


  377. @ Mr. Rapist. I’m glad there’s a lack of Black porn. It’s demeaning. If you want your women engaging in that sort of thing, then good for you. If that’s something you’re proud of.

    @Duck
    What do those two people have to do with the fact that over 85% of Black people in America have European blood? That their ancestors were repeatedly raped. Did you leave any out? I don’t know. Ask Strom Thurmond and Thomas Jefferson. :)

    Like


  378. on Thu 3 May 2012 at 04:21:40 duckduckgoofs

    What makes you think “rape” is the only way for mixed children to occur?

    Like


  379. on Thu 3 May 2012 at 04:23:23 phoebeprunelle

    I don’t think white slave owners raping black women had much to do with attraction–at all. That was more about humiliating black people as a whole–so much so that it emasculated the black man. When men rape (any woman no matter what her color) that is usually not about love or physical attraction. It is about domination and control.

    Sometimes you have to separate the obvious out. I would say historically–the only non black men who colonized African– who you could possibly say were attracted to black women out of love and respect were Arab men. I say this because they mostly married black women and gave the children their names and claimed them–although most times the children of such marriages had to be raised Muslim. Still this was not the best arrangement as Arab men had a legal “right’ to black women, but black men could not take Arab wives.

    As a black women that ish is nothing to brag about. . .

    Like


  380. on Thu 3 May 2012 at 04:32:50 phoebeprunelle

    Then again, you could also argue that because black people at one point were the “light of the world”, roughly for 10,000 years–black men did intermarry at their own free will–not very much–but they did and so did black women.

    It could be argued that historically–black people overwhelmingly–have preferred each other romantically.

    Like


  381. on Thu 3 May 2012 at 04:36:03 duckduckgoofs

    phoebeprunelle

    I’m not an expert on the history of africans and arabs but I’ve read some. And based on what little I’ve read the arabs didn’t marry them. They kept them as concubines. And they mostly killed any children.

    Like


  382. @ Duck
    So the fact that many Black people have mixed ancestry is due to the overwhelming number of love matches between slave women and slave owners? I don’t get your point.

    @ Phoebe
    The rape of Black women is a complex issue. It was about power, domination, latent attraction and a plethora of other reasons. I don’t know what kind of sick mind would “brag” about this. To say that white men were not attracted to slave women is an erroneous statement. Anti-miscegenation laws were put into place to combat Black men from copulating with White women. Not for White men who lusted after Black women. Like Thurmond, you can have someone say vile things about the Black race, yet go hoping into bed with them in secret. It reminds me of politicians who claim to hate homosexuals, but are then caught trolling for men in public restrooms.

    “Me thinks the lady doth protest too much” comes to my mind.

    Like


  383. Hmmm, what’s worse? Killing your offspring with Black women or “just” enslaving them?

    They’re both deplorable.

    Anyways, Black women run the gamut just like any race of women. Some are breathtakingly beautiful. Some are jaw droppingly ugly. Most fall in the in between category. To say that Black women aren’t attractive as a broad generalization is ridiculous.

    Like


  384. on Thu 3 May 2012 at 04:49:40 phoebeprunelle

    @duckduckgoofs,

    Yes–Arab men did marry quite a few African women. Dr. Ivan Van Sertima talks a lot about this and you go to the coast of Tanzania, Zanzibar you will see the history of this.

    @darqbeauty

    Yes–the rape of black women is complex. No denying that–but to say that it was mainly due to physical attraction–I take issue with that. Sure there were white men who were attracted to black women–who could blame them–but that whole history was very brutal and just not one I think is comparable to wholesome attraction.

    Like


  385. @ phoebe
    I never said that it was. I think you should reread my comment. I’m rereading my own comment just to see if I might have mistakenly given off that vibe, but I don’t see it. Perhaps you could point out what part of my statement led you to believe I thought that. But then again sarcasm and cynicism is hard to detect without tonal inflection. I’m sorry if you thought that’s what I was saying. Because nothing could be further from the truth. The rape of Black women was rooted in the need to dominate an already dominated people. It was rooted in exoticism. It was rooted in hate. It was rooted in attraction. I never said that was the main reason and I would think, given the nature of this blog and the consciousness of those therein, that it would be taken that way.

    Like


  386. on Thu 3 May 2012 at 04:57:48 duckduckgoofs

    “They’re both deplorable.”

    When have I said otherwise? I was simply stating what I remembered having read. I thought someone might be interested.

    “To say that Black women aren’t attractive as a broad generalization is ridiculous.”

    When have I said that?

    Please don’t make assumptions as to what I think or mean. I choose my words very carefully. And if I say something or don’t say something its usually for a reason. If you want to know something ask. I might not answer but I’d prefer that you ask than assume.

    Like


  387. *didn’t think

    Like


  388. on Thu 3 May 2012 at 05:00:57 duckduckgoofs

    phoebeprunelle

    North Africa and the Middle East cover a lot of territory and span thousands of years. I’m sure different things happened at different times.

    Like


  389. @ Duck

    The only assumption I make about you is that you are a bigot. :)
    Do you think Black women are ugly? Since you interjected yourself into my conversation, then perhaps you can give me your stand point.

    Like


  390. on Thu 3 May 2012 at 05:11:25 phoebeprunelle

    @darqbeauty

    Thanks for the clarification. I was not trying to be sarcastic or anything. Believe me what you say makes tons of sense, but somehow it just hard for me to conceptualize attraction via rape.

    @duckduckgoofs,

    You are right, but the most positive aspects of human history–*coughs* some white scholars *coughs again* tend to leave out to justify the atrocities committed against people of color.

    Like


  391. @ phoebe

    Now THAT was certainly sarcasm! lol ;)

    Like


  392. If black women were so beautiful why the lack of black porn? White women are men’s choice for a reason. Make all the excuses you wish.

    Because Jada Fire, Cherokee D’Ass, Kitten , Pinky,Janet Jacme, Skyy Black, Vanessa Blue Ebony Ayes, Beauty Dior, Marie Luv , Roxy Reynolds, Lacey Duvalle, Sinnamon Love, Alexis Silver, Kapri Styles, Nyomi Banxxx, Misty Stone, Candice Blake, Melrose Foxxx, Millian Blu, Aurora Jolie, Heather Hunter, Jeannie Pepper, Sydnee Capri, Ayana Angel, Angel Eyes and Carmen Hayes are just figments of my imagination.

    Here are about 20 more for you to check out.

    http://www.complex.com/girls/2011/08/the-top-50-hottest-black-porn-stars/

    Like


  393. on Thu 3 May 2012 at 05:57:50 duckduckgoofs

    darq

    The only assumption I make about you is that you are a bigot.

    I’m sure you have. And I think the same of you.

    you think Black women are ugly? Since you interjected yourself into my conversation, then perhaps you can give me your stand point.

    Yes, I apologize for interjecting myself into your screed about how white men are rapists.

    As for the rest, I’ve never given it much thought one way or the other.
    >
    >

    phoebeprunelle

    What do you think I’ve attempted to justify?

    Like


  394. @ Duck
    I said slave owners and antebellum whites were rapist. Your comprehension skills need a bit of refinement.
    Anyways, why don’t you give it some thought. However, I find it an odd response seeing as how men don’t really need to ruminate over whether they find someone ugly or not. You would be a first.

    Like


  395. @satanforce

    What, no love for Jenna Brooks and Kiss Promise?

    Like


  396. @ D.

    Just heard of those two. However, as I have now developed a pathological fear and hatred for black women, I will not be watching those two. At all.

    Like


  397. on Thu 3 May 2012 at 09:21:29 duckduckgoofs

    Darq

    You should watch some of the shows Henry Louis Gates hosted about African ancestry. They use genealogy and DNA to trace down family history. And a lot of the stories and beliefs people have about their families turn out to be completely wrong. They even traced down some of Gates white ancestors. The stories of how it happened would change how you view history.

    Anyways, why don’t you give it some thought. However, I find it an odd response seeing as how men don’t really need to ruminate over whether they find someone ugly or not. You would be a first.

    My attractions are mostly mental, not physical. Until someone piques my interest through intellect, they’re not even on the radar.

    Like


  398. @ Duck
    I watch the show and I particularly enjoyed the one last week with Robert Downey Jr. Gates story is one of many. For every story of true love there are hundreds more where “love” was taken forcefully. Like my great grandmother.

    Remember the discussion we had earlier about assumptions? Perhaps you should have asked me if I have seen the show instead of talking down to me and making assumptions based on what you think you know about Black people and their viewing habits. I’m going to bed. I have finals this week and next. Goodnight.

    Like


  399. @ Duck

    And I also find it quite telling that you cannot answer a simple question as to whether or not you think Black women are ugly. Men are mostly visually stimulated. This is a scientific fact. Please don’t insult my intelligence (again) and tell me that you have NEVER been able to ascertain whether or not a woman is attractive until after you’ve become aware of intellect. Or lack thereof. You’re on a Black blog. I don’t understand the need to pussyfoot around.

    Like


  400. You tell em, Satan !!! Thanks for including some of my favorites, how dare anyone implicate what is the favorite in terms of porn

    Oh black women, I feel so much for you all to ever have to question your wonderful beauty and grace

    Dont ever let any creeps give you any doubt about all the incredible features that make you exactly you. Everyone has their own tastes and preferances, but, make no mistake, their are legions and legions of men of all colors that love black women of all colors.

    This crap about “loud” or “aggresive” is just some media fed stereo type like about hair or culture. Dont ever buy into it

    Like


  401. Shout out “hey!” to Marie and Misty…!!

    Like


  402. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. If beauty can’t be seen it says more about the person seeing than the person seen. We should not empower people that see a lack of beauty. I have been fortunate enough to see beautiful women in all hues. As Eleanor Roosevelt said: “No one can make your feel inferior, without your consent.”

    Like


  403. on Thu 3 May 2012 at 14:10:31 phoebeprunelle

    “phoebeprunelle

    What do you think I’ve attempted to justify?”

    I did not say you attempted to justify anything. I don’t even know you–I simply meant that as a person who taught sixth grade social studies–some white textbook writers and historians leave out the more positive aspects of human history–particularly when it is beneficial for people of color to know these things.

    You–as in the rhetorical you–have to realize that Europeans have colonized the retelling of history so that it reinforces their goodness, competency, etc. Are all white scholars this way? No. As a matter of fact there are those who can be honest and hard hitting and would rather black people tell our story, but these whites are a rarity.

    Like


  404. @Mr Racist

    If black women were so beautiful why the lack of black porn?

    LMAO

    If this is the only way this man can ascertain beauty why would any woman want him, or care for that matter.

    Like


  405. on Thu 3 May 2012 at 15:39:58 phoebeprunelle

    @Demerera

    He would have a valid point, if only Jim Lendermen hadn’t published the book “Secret History of the Black Pin Up”

    Things that make you go hmmmmmmmmm

    Like


  406. on Thu 3 May 2012 at 15:51:42 the world we live in

    Nothing significant to add as i’m sure it has been stated already but nothing wrong with repetition when it comes to this topic:

    Beautiful women just like average and below avergae women are everywhere…all over this planet. No one ethnic group/ or “race” has a monopoly on beauty; beauty truly is an the eye of the beholder. With that said, white women really are given way to much ‘beauty’ credit and by extension pale skin. Those stuck on “white is right” and ‘black women are ugly’ schemas need to make the obvious connection between racism and capitalism. (talking to you Mr. Racist-duh)

    I’m already brown and look forward to browning up even further during the summer. SAY IT LOUD: I AM BLACK AND PROUD! You couldn’t pay me to trade the skin I’m in for white skin. No thank you-NEXT.

    Like


  407. @ everyone

    I don’t even understand why this is a topic for concern.
    If black women are so ugly, then why are we here? We all come from a black woman in one form or another.

    As for white men…Listen, white men have always wanted us.
    They left their doll-like white wives in bed to suffer the pain of neglect while they feasted on black flesh.

    This created an ENTIRE generation of people, like me, called Mulatto.
    Give me a break.
    Black women are the most daring, audacious , strong, able-bodied, mentally fierce, envied creature on Earth.

    We rule.
    And others know it.

    Like


  408. Before I say anything, I would like to say my comments don’t mean discard this battleground of “black women are seen as ugly”.

    Seeing satanforce reply back to the comment about porn and black women with naming a whole bunch of black women in that business in what I can only assume is an attempt to show the original poster that black women are as much represented in porn as white women to me this indicated falling into atrap set by white power.

    Just think back to when you were very very young. Beautiful didn’t really mean much to you. Your way of categorizing the world was yet to be instilled into you. When was the first time you said, “that’s beautiful, that’s ugly”. My point is the idea of beauty and ugliness is instilled into us by society, by the people around us once we get to a certain age. Ask yourself, who instills those ideas to those people that instill those ideas into you. Then keep going back… I believe you’ll land at the doorstep of white power.

    I mean, yes we are human and for the most part we have a sexual drive. But how/what we are attracted to depends on alot of factors most of which are out of our direct control as individuals… In a society where they prize physical appearance over everything else, then people will go for looks over character, personality etc. In a society where people prize personality, character over everything else, then people will be more attracted to those who show that. The point being, even though we have innate drives as human beings, society/environment plays a huge role in determining there final character.

    So for me, the whole thing about arguing beauty standards blacks v whites is futile if we come at it using the same definitions fed to us by white power. White women are exploited, look at advertisements etc… I would say white women in the modern world are the most exploited sexually, women of other races are just ignored or looked down upon. Black women shouldn’t fight for the right to be as equally exploited because this “beauty” standard has attached to it “exploitation”. At the end of the day that word beauty doesn’t belong to the female. It belongs to those that objectify and want her. If that person is an exploitative low life who has really no respect for you, then what does it matter if he says you are beautiful/ugly. I say this because in my opinion society in general is an exploitative low life thing that has zero respect for women and to me the best response to it, if I were a woman, will be to ignore it and not waste energy trying to prove how beautiful I am to it. This is obviously hard since as people we all want to be seen, recognized and appreciated but we should be careful not to crave this from exploitative elements that don’t have our best interest at heart.

    However it is important to talk about this stereotype as it helps educate those who unwillingly fall for it. And the truth is that WE ALL unwillingly fall for it because our minds are super suggestible.

    I don’t know if that made sense.

    Like


  409. on Thu 3 May 2012 at 18:43:36 phoebeprunelle

    “So for me, the whole thing about arguing beauty standards blacks v whites is futile if we come at it using the same definitions fed to us by white power”

    Okay this is were I take issue; no one is saying white women are not attractive, or pitting white women and black women agaisnt each other.

    I think Abagond is only saying that women of African descent have been the butt of white peoples jokes about body shape, hair texture, and facial features. Normal, healthy black people (and whites and Asians) will see these features as indication of the diversity of human phentotype. Not as something freakish.

    Like


  410. on Thu 3 May 2012 at 18:49:57 duckduckgoofs

    Perhaps you should have asked me if I have seen the show

    Perhaps you should have asked me which series. Gates has hosted several and ‘Finding Your Roots’ isn’t the one I was talking about.

    Men are mostly visually stimulated. This is a scientific fact.

    Oh yeah? Why are you interested in whether I’m “visually stimulated”? Are you going to send me a picture or something? haha

    Like


  411. @ phoebeprunelle

    By blacks v whites I meant using white expectations as a marker for black beauty. Sorry for my wording.

    My whole point was that that “marker” needs to be changed by completely re-framing the whole discussion. Since as you said, if you go by that marker, then the diversity is seen as something freakish.

    I think we are on the same page.

    Like


  412. on Thu 3 May 2012 at 19:18:55 phoebeprunelle

    @wilson,

    Ok thanks for clarifying. I see your drift.

    Like


  413. @phoebeprunelle

    He would have a valid point, if only Jim Lendermen hadn’t published the book “Secret History of the Black Pin Up”

    Aha! Education for me here cos I didnt know such a book existed either.

    @Satanforce

    Shame on you for not naming me as your #1 Pin up ;-)

    Like


  414. I don’t know about anyone else but I happen to be beautiful. That is not even the most awesome thing! I have smooth, soft, chocolate skin the doesn’t age fast. Pictures from my teens can not be distinguished from recent pictures. Just compare a black 30 year old woman to a white 30 year old woman with both having on no make up. My mother is 54 and not a wrinkle in sight. She had dangerous curves and people are shocked when they find out her age. I don’t care what a bunch of racist think about me because they are not who define me. Beauty comes in all colors, shapes, and sizes but I am biased because pecan tan to the darkest berry is beautiful to me. I will be the first to admit that I am highly attracted to dark men. He can look like a shadow on a white wall and my knees will get weak. Darker the berry sweeter the juice; darker the skin, deeper the roots. Keep your head up ladies. Confidence makes your beauty shine even brighter.

    Like


  415. on Thu 3 May 2012 at 21:02:50 the world we live in

    Your last line is worth repeating a 1,000 times.

    Confidence is where it’s at ladies!!!
    Now you’ve put Tupac in my head Cleonette, lol!

    Like


  416. Shame on you for not naming me as your #1 Pin up ;-)

    Of course not. You’re black, and I have a pathological hatred of black women and an irrational fear of the black female body.

    Like


  417. Well, black women are extremly well endowed with inner beauty . Speaking about black American women ( because of course there are black women all over the world who are gorgeous, I just want to focus a statement about black American women and how I perceived them as I was growing up), one thing that became very clear to me as I became more and more aware of racism in society and discrimination and general obsticles thrown on a race exactly because of their color, and they were the descendants of slaves from Africa , I began to respect so very much , the poise and dignity and grace , that the black American woman possesed in the face of these things. And , it translated into perceiving wonderful inner beauty and strength , that I respected a lot and it was a turn on also. Of course I also respecte black American men for this also, and admired them for the struggle they faced and it gave me a lot of inspiration, along with the women, about how to face life and deal with the hard things life dishes up to all of us.

    But, look, black women deserve as much as any women anywhere in the world to bask in the gaze of so many of us who absolutly adore them and are moved and inspired and pasionate for exactly how they look and move and walk and talk …in any and all the incredible hues , and anyway they choose to wear their hair or dress…and how much we want to know them and what makes them tick and how they think and feel about life

    Like


  418. on Fri 4 May 2012 at 22:40:56 duckduckgoofs

    Well, black women are extremly well endowed with inner beauty .

    Oh, tish! Anytime someone starts out like that you know it’s bad. Kind of like, “Yeah, but she has a really great personality.” I can’t believe you’d even say something like that. Don’t you realize how that sounds?

    Like


  419. The only thing science knows for sure in regards to the primitive nature of some modern humans is that Europeans are part Neanderthal, which is a species of hominid generally considered less evolved and less intelligent than Homo Sapiens. It has been definitively confirmed that Africans are the only humans that do not have any Neanderthal in them, but are 100% Homo sapien.

    Sadly, a white racist can call an African person an ‘ape’ all day and night. It doesn’t change the fact that no matter how much he rants and raves, he is less evolved and closer to an ape than any African person on the planet.

    Facts are facts. The science is undeniable. Kinda sucks for the now 100% invalidated and pathetic white racist.

    Source: Extremely pale white person who is embracing the now confirmed White Neanderthal Ape heritage.

    Like


  420. Think it was confirmed via DNA analysis in 2011, actually:
    http://www.nature.com/news/2010/100506/full/news.2010.225.html

    Like


  421. @ the world we live in

    IKR! Just listen to that song though! It’s prophetic! Say what they will about Tupac, he knew what was really going on.

    Like


  422. on Sat 5 May 2012 at 08:36:54 duckduckgoofs

    test

    Like


  423. Duckgoofs, if that is what you got out of my post , you have serious reading comprehension skills…

    True beauty is inside and out, and black women have both in abundance

    Like


  424. Of course not. You’re black, and I have a pathological hatred of black women and an irrational fear of the black female body.

    Of course *smh*, LOL

    Like


  425. on Sat 5 May 2012 at 15:09:54 phoebeprunelle

    “The only thing science knows for sure in regards to the primitive nature of some modern humans is that Europeans are part Neanderthal”

    You don’t have to look far for these; Although considered lovely women, Julia Roberts and Barbara Streisand have these very Neanderthal features.

    There is no getting around it; We ALL look more like our ancestors than not.

    Black ladies in Ethiopia/The Great Rift Valley still look a lot like “Lucy” or “Dinqnash” with there slender frames and high foreheads and very deep cheekbones–beauty comes a dime a dozen.

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  426. Guys

    Do you realize how insane it is that these white racists come here to argue that we are ugly and inferior? If not for black women, the world would perish. We built this nation, brick by brick, nurtured it’s men, cared for it’s desendants, black and white, and allowed it to suckle at our teats til it grew fat and rotund.

    Even today, white women cut themselves up by a surgeons knife to have our features and curves. Angelina Jolie is prized for having our features. Jennifer Lopez is prized for our curves. And please don’t get me started on tanning!
    Bo Derek was thrown into stardom for Cornrows. Raquel Welch for her full fugure, as well Sophia Loren ( a throw back to the full figured “Mammy”) and every fiesty, fiery, bitchy, blonde cheerleader type is the white version of “Sapphire”.

    Every smooth, cool ,sweet talking, charlie sheen wannabe is Richard Roundtree.

    Guys, we rule. America wouldn’t be here if not for us.

    Like


  427. Saying “white” is racist in itself if your going to say things about people take the race out of the mix say this is what “some people think” this is what “racists think” because your lumping whites in with racists you are in fact being racist and culturally insensitive, Stereotyping is how racism starts and by commenting on these boards posting things like this shows how ignorant and stereotypical you all really are. There are racists of all color, what everyone needs to do is stop lumping everyone together because of where they’re from or what they look like, it’s about the individual themselves. Get that through your thick skulls and end the racism that your breeding amongst each other

    Like


  428. Yes sah! Clown!

    Like


  429. I hate to say this but black women as a percentage are just not as pretty as other races. Why do you think black men chase after white women and white men want white or asian women.
    Black women are also wayyyyy to disrespectful to their men…not sure if it is cultural or just a product of upbringing.

    Like


  430. Everyone:

    Randy is spoiling for a fight. Please do not take the bait.

    Like


  431. Cmon , Randy, that is just a blatent ignorant statement. Black men dont go chasing after white women, the majority are with black women. Its natural for people everywhere to be atracted to other types of people, its really natural, what is not natural is to try to make it seem like some group of women are less atractive than another.Or that it isnt ok to go out with other people that look differant.

    Any kind of discusion that tries to make the black woman seem less atractive than other women is seriously flawed. Its like vomiting lies in the face of overwelming truth of the beauty, grace, sensuality and culture the black woman represents

    I pity people stuck on some train of thought that the black woman is less atractive than other women…such delusion, they are sure missing it…let them miss it…stay away…you just dont get it

    Like


  432. I just got back from Rio , and,saw a huge stage production of folklorico music and dance, with mostly an all black cast, and lots of black women dancing…..unbeleivable beauty and grace…my gosh, seeing the Afro Brazilian woman dancing her Afro Brazilian culture and in the costumes of her country, including the fio dental passista costume, well , women dont get any more beautiful than that…

    I also saw some black women on the beach in fio dentals and the incredible shape and curves all flowing out in sensuality and drop dead gorgousness, just defines female beauty and sensuality on its highest terms…

    Any one who couldnt apreciete that kind of beauty is wound up too tight inside

    Like


  433. [quote]test[/quote]
    test

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  434. Randy:

    I hate to say this but black women as a percentage are just not as pretty as other races. Why do you think black men chase after white women and white men want white or asian women.
    Black women are also wayyyyy to disrespectful to their men…not sure if it is cultural or just a product of upbringing.

    Randy, you are certainly welcome to your opinion as to what you consider beautiful. What I object to however is stating an opinion as if it were an immutable fact or some universal constant. What I think you could more accurately say is that N. American white men don’t pursue black women. In Europe you will see a much more even ratio of WM/BF couples as there are BM/WF. African-American women I know that have vacationed in Europe are often surprised at the level of attention they receive. I don’t think European men have as many hangups about the phenotype of black women as white American men do, from my casual observation. So my point here is that this is all relative to the society you live in.

    As for black men chasing white women. This is mantra that has been repeated by paranoid white American males going back to slavery times. The horny black buck stereotype whose penis is a heat-seeking missile aimed at white females. Gimme a break, man. If you want to know what black males idealize, then just open up lifestyle magazines(such as King or Black Men magazine) written by black males FOR black males. You will not see any white women other than Kim Kardashian. Most are carmel-skinned/exotic black women with enormous asses. Ditto for the video vixens used in hiphop videos(http://alturl.com/8fg7c). If black men were solely pursing white women, then why don’t they place more prominently in black male media? N. American white men have a different ideal model of beauty, it tends to be *skinny* tall blondes whereas black men like thick, “exotic” racially-ambiguous looking women like Esther Baxter, Angel Lola or Kim Kardashian.

    I’d say in my personal observation, black men don’t care all that much about race one way or the other when it comes to dating. Most of us are pretty open in that regard. From the perspective of white males, this comes across as “chasing white women” because inevitably if you are 6% of the population in a country where the majority of the women are white, that will mean you will probably approach quite a number of white females as well, even if you have no bias for or against any race. That’s why it “looks” like black males chase white women. If a white male were living in Detroit and were completely neutral in his racial preferences, most of the women he would date would end up being black. I have known few black men who date white women to the complete exclusion of all other women, despite the stereotypes. Even the black guys I know that do prefer white woman sure as hell wouldn’t kick Gabrielle Union out of their bed.

    Like


  435. Randy, after all these years on Abagond I think you would have given up on obvious trolling.

    Like


  436. I am glad Abagond appreciates the beauty of a Black woman. Yes, I do believe Black is beautiful.
    In the area, I live in, it is full of rednecks and racists. 90% of White males wouldn’t date a Black girl and they feel that they are not attractive, treat their men badly etc. They believe the sterotypes.

    I don’t fit those sterotypes of a Black girl and I am pretty, polite, kind and get good grades. I don’t care if most White American men don’t find Black women attractive. I don’t need the White man’s approval to validate my beauty because beauty is in the eye of the beholder. .

    I know I am a beautiful young Black woman.

    Like


  437. “I have feeling this “randy” is not our usual Randy….”

    ****

    I agree Bulanik. Regular Randy is a trip, but he’s hardly one to make an asinine/disparaging statement about black women. Randy’s the most *gentlemanly* diehard racist I’ve ever had the displeasure of consistently rolling/cutting my eyes and shaking my head at. And his syntax is quite different.

    Like


  438. on Sun 23 Sep 2012 at 01:12:37 vanishing point.

    I was surprised by this comment by Randy too, good catch!!

    Like


  439. @ Bulanik and Matari

    You are right guys…sorry luvs, they all start to “look alike” to me.

    Like


  440. @Adeen Danica Mckenzie
    You’re right…Blacks shouldn’t define beauty based on white people’s standards. Beauty is 100% subjective. Not everyone thinks white women are more beautiful, and not even all white men think every white woman is beautiful.

    Like


  441. Ah… that explains it.

    1) Regular Randy
    2) Fool Randy

    Sorry Regular Randy, I should have caught that.

    Like


  442. You know, they say beauty is in the eye of the beholder. But, what if that beholder has a white male supremacist mindset?

    That is the problem with the world with white males in charge of most of the images. Let’s be real. It’s the mindset like that of Randy that’s determining what is considered as “beautiful” and what is considered “ugly”. It regulates the image down to one compact standard according to whiteness.

    It’s like a stab in the heart to be told that you’re not beautiful because it’s outside the social standard based on the white man’s opinion which then becomes a fact through aggressive means. It’s like saying that you were born with deficiencies and you have only yourself to blame. In my opinion it’s one of the worst examples of dehumanization imaginable.

    And before anyone says anything, yes, I AM blaming the white man. So, sue me.

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  443. brothawolf:

    That is the problem with the world with white males in charge of most of the images. Let’s be real. It’s the mindset like that of Randy that’s determining what is considered as “beautiful” and what is considered “ugly”. It regulates the image down to one compact standard according to whiteness…

    And before anyone says anything, yes, I AM blaming the white man. So, sue me.

    Let’s keep in mind that we are talking primarily about N. American white males. Let’s not assume that a situation that exist in America is necessarily universal. As I said previously, interracial dating/marriage amongst African women and European men is far higher than it is in the United States. The hangups whites have with black women in the USA isn’t universally shared. There was also a study in England not long ago that said Britons consider mixed-race people more attractive than white people:

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/wales/8618606.stm

    One black woman’s story of how much better she as a black woman is received abroad than in the USA:

    http://newsone.com/1862895/black-women-dating-non-black-men-abroad/

    Like


  444. Absolutly, Brothawolf , I saw a documentary on the modeling industry once, and, some of the movers and shakers were sitting down in Italy and they blatently dissed black woman’s beauty…I mean these are the people who hire the models and that is what is seen by the rest of the world as suposedly beauty standards…what a sick joke…its sure not my beauty standards

    By the way , no matter which Randy it is, what I said above goes for anyone thinking like that

    Like


  445. And these movers and shakers were not American, by the way…

    And it sure exists in Brazil, in a bigger way than the USA…racist colorisation and white beauty standards being pushed as the best

    i disagree its only North America

    Like


  446. @ B.R.

    I’m not saying that white beauty standards don’t reign outside the US. My point is that the nearly pathological obsession with the “ugliness” of black women that you see with racist American white men. You can be in a country like Argentina and people will still view blonde haired women as supreme, but at the same time, a black woman there will still have no shortage of attention from men. Same with Italy.

    Like


  447. on Sun 23 Sep 2012 at 09:47:07 MajorPrincess2

    I’d just like to say that if it is true (which I do not believe for a minute) that all white men find all black women to be unattractive, then that is probably a good thing for the black woman. White men, on the average, are not all that attractive. I mean, sure, you have your “stars,” who look okay, but I think one of the main reasons so many white women are looking for black men, is that they too find many–if not most, white men to be weak, feminine, redneckish, and just plain ignorant and racist. Who would want to date or marry that? So let me give a great big sigh of relief that most of us black women don’t have to worry about being pursued by men so vile and repulsive their own women, who they find utterly and amazingly beautiful, DON’T WANT THEM!

    Like


  448. on Sun 23 Sep 2012 at 09:50:32 MajorPrincess2

    Postscript to my last response. When is someone going to start a blog called “Why white men are seen as ugly?” That would be a good one.

    Like


  449. OK, Tulio, I see what you are saying…right on this blog, we have heard some of the dumbest things coming from white Americans about the black woman…

    I do see in Brazil, an insidious colorisation, put downs on black women’s hair, which I find gorgous, by the way , exclusion from a presence in the media (its slowly improving with quotas put in place, but , very frustrating for those of us who would like to see Afro Brazilian culture and lives truly represented besides the national soccar team and carnival, even in carnival, in Bahia, the largest black population in Brazil, the carnival makes threee white women the top performers instead of the huge pool of black talent that exists there).

    Like


  450. @Tulio,

    Yet earlier you said that “black men prefer racially ambiguous looking women.”

    It’s amazing no one has pointed out that flawed reasoning, because while you were clearing up one lie about ALL black men chasing white women, you started another by saying the above comment.

    I can assure you that Black Men magazine does not represent the preferences for even half of all U.S. born black men and with an 88% marriage figure of black men married to black women–these black women come in ALL shades, hair types, features, etc.

    Just by my own expereinces, black men tend to end up with ALL kinds of black women–but get this–you can see that they are indeed black.

    Like


  451. @Adeen

    “In the area, I live in, it is full of rednecks and racists. 90% of White males wouldn’t date a Black girl and they feel that they are not attractive, treat their men badly etc. They believe the sterotypes.”

    Ouch, that’s terrible to hear.

    We have that situation around my area sorta, where most couples you see in public usually consists of whites/asians, mono-racial couples, but never black/other.

    It’s depressing to notice that while some people are mixing, most still seem to exclude blacks whenever possible for whatever reason. Hopefully that changes though, as around here we have a lot of different folks from different backgrounds and races.

    Like


  452. @Yawn

    It’s depressing to notice that while some people are mixing, most still seem to exclude blacks whenever possible for whatever reason.

    Or could it be that lots of black people may not be as interested in mixing?

    Like


  453. @Phoebe

    “Or could it be that lots of black people may not be as interested in mixing?”

    Well I never included a statement like that because I don’t see a problem with it, because people will generally date those who are the same background/race as themselves.

    BUT what I notice here is generally a lack of interest in blacks from others, not just blacks not being inclusive. This delves deeper into other causes but I won’t get into it.

    What I will say is that some blacks, despite wanting or having no preference when it comes to date/marry will have no option BUT to date/marry other blacks because of the lack of notice from others.

    But as I say, it delves deeper and I do not want to open up that can of worms. it’s better to just observe where this leads to in the future as opposed to speculating.

    Like


  454. on Sun 23 Sep 2012 at 18:31:35 MajorPrincess2

    It seems to me that many of the white men who post here are unusually concerned with black women, or why else would they be here commenting at all? Also, and this is nothing new, many seem preoccupied with trying to make black women feel badly about themselves, as if the prize of prizes in the world of dating is a white man. C’mon. The white man, these days, is most desired by … wait for it, OTHER WHITE MEN. They’re really into each other these days as many new TV shows are demonstrating their “new normal.” I think it’s great. I want more of them to get together, that way fewer of them will be born.

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  455. @Major

    “It seems to me that many of the white men who post here are unusually concerned with black women, or why else would they be here commenting at all?”

    That’s a stupid argument.

    It implies that topics related to how whites see women of other races can’t be comment upon by whites. It’s like saying “we’re going to make a topic related to IR and mixed marriage but only those who oppose them can post”.

    You’ve gotta be willing to be open to dialogue, even if you don’t personally find interest in the topic at hand.

    And considered this thread was labelled “why black women are seen as ugly” and includes whites why can’t they post? I mean, besides barring the obvious racist ones who stir up trouble (which I was not when I posted).

    So, what’s the problem?

    Like


  456. on Sun 23 Sep 2012 at 19:03:32 MajorPrincess2

    @Yawn. “It seems to me that many of the white men who post here are unusually concerned with black women, or why else would they be here commenting at all?”

    You said: That’s a stupid argument.

    I say it’s not a stupid argument. I say it doesn’t matter that the topic is labeled “why black women are seen as ugly.” I’m sure there are topics on the Internet with mean-spirited and racist labels targeting white men, and yet, I’m not writing on those sites commenting, at all, because I don’t care to. White men, for the most part, are “invisible people” to me. I’m saying if all white men find all black women to be “ugly,” then that would be the best reason of all for none of them to come to any site where they could come in contact with the horror of horrors, a black woman.

    I have no interest in white men, whatsoever, so I couldn’t care less about the ones that think black women are ugly. When you don’t find a group to be attractive, and you have no interest in them, then you don’t seek them out. At all.

    I don’t seek white men out in any way, form, or fashion. Most are racist, mean-spirited, and hateful toward all black people. All that’s missing is the pointed white hood/dunce cap. So why in the world would I want to say anything at all on websites targeting white men? You see? My argument is far from “stupid.” But I wouldn’t expect it to be taken any other way by a white man. I’m as open to dialogue as I need to be, and I don’t have anything to prove to you or to anyone else.

    Like


  457. @Major

    ” I’m saying if all white men find all black women to be “ugly,” then that would be the best reason of all for none of them to come to any site where they could come in contact with the horror of horrors, a black woman.”

    And that’s a generalisation, because not all think that, and not all (even if some do) would say it publicly. Yet you’re painting all of them with the same brush.

    “I have no interest in white men, whatsoever, so I couldn’t care less about the ones that think black women are ugly. When you don’t find a group to be attractive, and you have no interest in them, then you don’t seek them out. At all.”

    And that’s your obviously preference, and as I said I don’t object to people who prefer to date those who fit their preference or neutrally go for those of their own race. And I’m sure some whites who’ve posted or post on the internet related to topics like this don’t disrespect any kind of women by openly state “their ugly” unless they’re out to purposely hurt others.

    “I don’t seek white men out in any way, form, or fashion. Most are racist, mean-spirited, and hateful toward all black people. All that’s missing is the pointed white hood/dunce cap. So why in the world would I want to say anything at all on websites targeting white men? You see? My argument is far from “stupid.” But I wouldn’t expect it to be taken any other way by a white man. I’m as open to dialogue as I need to be, and I don’t have anything to prove to you or to anyone else.”

    Again you resort to typical generalisations, as you’re stating “most”. Do you know me personally to make that observation? How about the white people in Canada, or the US? Or Europe? Have you gauged all their opinions? No.

    And again, you think because all whites are racist and mean-spirited and hateful towards blacks that all should therefor be considered as such and should not post? Again, yes it is stupid to assume so.

    Also, I’m laughing that you brought up race into this, as I’ve not specifically called out your post because of your race, yet you felt the need to bring up “But I wouldn’t expect it to be taken any other way by a white man.” as If you know my race.

    “and I don’t have anything to prove to you or to anyone else.”

    That’s fine, but who said you needed to? I surely didn’t, I just thought it was stupid to exclude those who’s views your currently talking about.

    *rolls eyes* why bother with honest discussions.

    Here, I’ll throw you a freebie. I as a person of unknown race think black women are ugly .. there now your view is valid.

    If I truly hated black people why would I be here? Please, I want your honest opinion, you seem to have me figured out while I sit here confused.

    Like


  458. @ B.R”

    “even in carnival, in Bahia, the largest black population in Brazil, the carnival makes threee white women the top performers instead of the huge pool of black talent that exists there).”

    this reminds me of the haiti beauty pageant where “the most beautiful haitian woman,” wasn’t even black.

    majorprincess said,
    “The white man, these days, is most desired by … wait for it, OTHER WHITE MEN. They’re really into each other these days as many new”

    LOL

    you know what else, it’s really not difficult to get a white man or any man to sleep with you. I don’t know why some people on this blog act like this is so difficult for a black woman to do as if we’re not REALLY WOMEN, u realize it’s the easiest thing to get a man to sleep with you black or not. I’ve even had white men approach me before for this, it’s not difficult…

    I can’t even say I was at my thinnest when I was approached by these men. I can think of four incidents off the top of me head where a white male has expressed sexual interest in me. that’s the easy part guys.

    so if you’re talking about black men chasing after white women for sexual reason, such as “Randy,” referenced in his comment, that’s really nothing to be proud of nor is it a parameter to measure beauty, pretty much any woman with a p-ssy can get d-ck, white man or not.

    if you’re talking about marriage, no white men don’t MARRY black women at the same rate of other races because most white men prefer white women period just as most black men WHO DO MARRY, prefer to marry Black women. the reason you see more single black women isn’t because black men are marrying other races MORE than black women, it’s because too many black men just aren’t marrying AT ALL and are cohabiting longer than other races of men, or just playing the fields too long.

    Like


  459. but then again, to be honest, i am seeing more white men marrying black women. why my cousins i getting married in a couple months and her fiancee is a professional white male. so, it does happen, even if it’s less common.

    Like


  460. and i also agree with “major princess,”

    there really is no point in SEEKING OUT blogs and starting discussion about how “ugly black women are,” to you as a white man if you have no interest in them. It’s bizarre to me especially because I’ve been on threads where white men have GONE OUT OF THEIR WAY to bring up black women when the discussion had nothing to do with black women.

    They’ll be talking about soccer or football and a white guy will bring up black women for whatever reason and it’ll turn into a Black woman bashing fest…

    then inevitable the discussion always turns to Black women’s vaginas and or sexual lifestyles and these same white men who claim to be so repulsed by the black women they went out of their way to bring into the conversation suddenly become “experts” about black women’s vaginas and sexuality…the color, the taste, the smell, the look everything. it’s very odd to me, like you really think about black vagina that much…and like I said, it’s not difficult to get a man to have sex with you as a woman, but i think it’s harder for men to get a woman to have sex with them so I know there are white men who have or would have sex with a Black woman, so it’s just odd to me.

    It comes off like the men are either sexually frustrated because they CAN’T get a black woman or are gay OR and this is a BIG ONE, they’re intimidated or threatened by Black men and Black women are a TOOL to express their superiority to Black men.

    I know a lot of sports forums white men will be talking about football, b-ball and other sports where Black men are somewhat over-represented and it always goes into black football players, basketball players and how they are and who they date, then someone will bring up p-nis size and then from there it turns into a black woman bash fest, I’ve noticed that. Maybe they’re lashing out because they feel they can’t compete with black men sexually and black women are an easy target to take that resentment out on…or maybe they’re jealous for whatever reason

    I don’t know guys, i’m just throwing stuff out there, but i’ve definitely noticed it.

    Like


  461. @Peanut

    “u realize it’s the easiest thing to get a man to sleep with you black or not. I’ve even had white men approach me before for this, it’s not difficult…”

    Exactly, when it comes to who males sleep with race doesn’t have all that much affect on it. Studies have shown that males tend to not have any preference at all when it comes to race, but marriage is another dynamic where the strain comes full swing, if it lasts it lasts .. sadly many don’t. :(

    “but then again, to be honest, i am seeing more white men marrying black women. why my cousins i getting married in a couple months and her fiancee is a professional white male. so, it does happen, even if it’s less common.”

    As long as she and he are happy, you can’t argue. Cheers to the soon-to-be newlyweds.

    Like


  462. on Sun 23 Sep 2012 at 20:17:35 MajorPrincess2

    @Yawn. “If I truly hated black people why would I be here? Please, I want your honest opinion, you seem to have me figured out while I sit here confused.”

    I don’t know if you’re a white man, but you certainly seem to be posing as one if you’re not. I’ve been a black female American all my life, born in the racist South, so I can detect white male BS from a considerable distance.

    And, yes, lots of white men come to this site because they truly hate black people, especially black women. They know that most of us don’t prefer them, and that irks them a bit, even though they don’t prefer us either. They still want us to be salivating in desire for them, even though they don’t like us. Well, too bad. Most black women don’t have anything at all, other than humanity, in common with most white men. That’s just a fact of life. And with the male of the species being the aggressor in most instances, I don’t expect to see a lot of black women and white men dating. Most black women go ahead and presume, and I think they’re right to do so, that the average white man is a racist. And, being mentally competent, the average black woman would not dare date a racist white man. Who in their right mind, other than a racist white woman, would want a racist white man?

    White women chase black men thinking they’re going to get a better “brand” of sex and friendship than they believe is possible with a white man. White girls chase my brothers, my nephews, all the men in my family, pretty much. But the men in my family who are married, are married to beautiful black women.

    And yes, this site is like “chum” to the breed of racist white men who come here. The site gives them a chance to show out like the hateful people many of them truly are. White supremacists who think the world revolves around them. That’s your “average” white man.

    Like


  463. @Peanut

    “It comes off like the men are either sexually frustrated because they CAN’T get a black woman or are gay OR and this is a BIG ONE, they’re intimidated or threatened by Black men and Black women are a TOOL to express their superiority to Black men.”

    Fully agree! I have some friends (both male and female) who’ve gone full swing in bringing up black males and females every day in conversations even though they “hate” them. I generally look at them every time and think “ugh, here we go again ..” and tell them new topic because I do not want to have that conversation with them about it.

    “I know a lot of sports forums white men will be talking about football, b-ball and other sports where Black men are somewhat over-represented and it always goes into black football players, basketball players and how they are and who they date, then someone will bring up p-nis size and then from there it turns into a black woman bash fest, I’ve noticed that. Maybe they’re lashing out because they feel they can’t compete with black men sexually and black women are an easy target to take that resentment out on…or maybe they’re jealous for whatever reason”

    I’ve seen it too, and personally I find it sad that they feel the need to talk about black penises and female vaginas. Most do seem somewhat intimidated, some seem threatened as well and I laugh at those that do.

    “I don’t know guys, i’m just throwing stuff out there, but i’ve definitely noticed it.”

    You’re pretty spot on to be honest, no need to second guess yourself.

    Like


  464. I want you all to observe this famous scene from Gone with the Wind Between Scarlett Ohara (Vivien Leigh) and Mammy (Hattie McDaniel)

    see video below

    the image from the movie you see above is the image that white men wanted the world to have of Black women and white women. The mammy image, one of the most demeaning and racist images of Black women was created by racist WHITE MEN ,the same white men who were sexing their Black women slaves, mistresses and just Black women in general even after slavery.

    There is scholarly evidence about the origins of mammy and the earliest images are traced back to white men creating this cumbersome, asexual, wizened image of Black women intentionally to project an image of asexuality onto the world in order to excuse their sexual misuse/abuse of Black women’s bodies.

    The idea being that if black women are portrayed as ugly and asexual then why would white men have ever had sexual relationships with Black women right? Because back then when a woman was raped, it wasn’t seen the way it is today as a crime of power, but a crime of lust and passion.

    so, how do we make white men seem innocent of those crimes, we make black women look undesirable.

    Now had they put a younger, average-sized version of mammy in gone with the wind, what would that say about Black women in terms of their beauty? Would it put black women on equal footing with white women…we can’t have that.

    It’s the same thing today pretty much. black women have always been bashed for our beauty by white men and then at the same time there were white men who had black mistresses even after slavery, went OUT OF THEIR way to get to black women in SEGREGATED colored areas in the Jim Crow south, even to the point there were brothels with nothing but Black women that were frequented almost exclusively by WHITE politicians.

    My theory is BACK THEN when Black women had pretty much no rights and white men dominated Black women even more than today, white men had more control over Black men, Black women, Black children etc…today since Black women have more rights, more independence and are advancing and since we can no longer be “legally raped,” by white men, some racist white men (and wm wannabes) compensate for this loss of control by trying to psychologically dominate black women. this is where the obsession and bashing of black women stems from… in my opinion. it’s fear, insecurity, jealously and complex cocktail of emotions.

    Like


  465. @Major

    “I don’t know if you’re a white man, but you certainly seem to be posing as one if you’re not. I’ve been a black female American all my life, born in the racist South, so I can detect white male BS from a considerable distance.”

    And as I take a general middle of the road stand, I kinda figured what type of person you’d be by your post. You seem to fit right in with Truthbetold, you can find her site in the links tab.

    You’d be semi-right, I have my own mind with my own thoughts that sometimes either mend with white racists or don’t, but generally they don’t. In this particular instances, I’m the neutral one not you.

    “And, yes, lots of white men come to this site because they truly hate black people, especially black women. They know that most of us don’t prefer them, and that irks them a bit, even though they don’t prefer us either. They still want us to be salivating in desire for them, even though they don’t like us. Well, too bad. Most black women don’t have anything at all, other than humanity, in common with most white men. That’s just a fact of life. And with the male of the species being the aggressor in most instances, I don’t expect to see a lot of black women and white men dating. Most black women go ahead and presume, and I think they’re right to do so, that the average white man is a racist. And, being mentally competent, the average black woman would not dare date a racist white man. Who in their right mind, other than a racist white woman, would want a racist white man?”

    You’re still stuck on the generalisations, but I’ll just credit it to you being born in the south.

    Some do, some don’t. As I said, you’ve stated you’d never date a white person .. did I get all huffy puffy about it? No, because I don’t have a problem your preference is your prerogative. I know you’re wrong anyway, so why bother being upset.

    Most whites in the states perhaps don’t like blacks or prefer blacks because of the history of the states. In Canada it’s completely different, most stigma about dating and marrying blacks stems from stereotypes “the ghetto type” and all that other junk. Which is why I stated I find it odd that in my area where there are a lot of blacks, the couples I see consists of whites/asians asian/other white/other but never have I seen blacks/other, I have seen some blacks/whites though but far and few which I feel is mostly again due to stigma and other races generally avoiding blacks.

    “Most black women go ahead and presume, and I think they’re right to do so, that the average white man is a racist.”

    Which is false.

    ” And, being mentally competent, the average black woman would not dare date a racist white man.”

    If they were mentally competent they’d date anyone who made them feel happy, race should not play any part it in.

    All the all as I said, If you want to be all well I’m a black women and I only date black males, go do so. I never said you couldn’t, hell I openly endorse it, go be happy.

    Like


  466. on Sun 23 Sep 2012 at 20:35:47 MajorPrincess2

    “Maybe they’re lashing out because they feel they can’t compete with black men sexually and black women are an easy target to take that resentment out on…or maybe they’re jealous for whatever reason I don’t know guys, i’m just throwing stuff out there, but i’ve definitely noticed it.”

    @Peanut. You sound like a psychologist, Peanut! Great observation. I think you’re right. There’s no other reason for the “insanity” of white men seeking and CREATING opportunities to bash black women. What have we done to them? If ignoring the hell out of them is a crime, then I guess we’re guilty of that, but other than that, I’m stomped for answers. Maybe they don’t like being ignored. Too bad. Many of their own women are ignoring the hell out of them too these days, while salivating over black men. And that’s probably part of the reason they want to bash us. They want to pretend and “high five” black men who can pull their women in droves, and then, at the same time, they want to bash us and say demeaning things about us, because they can’t say these things to black men. After all, most racist white men see the WHITE WOMAN as the Queen of the World, and Her Majesty can have anything she wants, even a black man. But then, they still have that anger that has to go somewhere, so it’s coming at us, black women, in full force. And it is only serving to make it even more clear to me, what I’ve known all along. The average white man is a very sick individual, psychologically. Extremely ill.

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  467. @majorprincess,

    I’m mainly speaking about racist or closet racist white men, no doubt they have some psychological issues. Normal, non-racist white men don’t go out of their way to bash Black women for no reason. I don’t want to insult all white men because I know there are white men who are very nice and respectful to people and truly just regard Black women as regular women and human beings. so i just wanted to put that disclaimer out there.

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  468. majorprincess,

    “They want to pretend and “high five” black men who can pull their women in droves, and then, at the same time, they want to bash us and say demeaning things about us, because they can’t say these things to black men. After all, most racist white men see the WHITE WOMAN as the Queen of the World, and Her Majesty can have anything she wants, even a black man. But then, they still have that anger that has to go somewhere, so it’s coming at us, black women, in full force.”
    and also this is where the mandingo parties and stuff come from, it’s this bizarre thing where I think white men are wanting “high five,” the black man who is with the white woman, but at the same time they’re clearly upset by it and feeling emasculated/inferior…so i don’t know i think the mandingo parties, the black woman bashing and everything is all kinda connected in a line of racist thinking and it’s kinda reminiscent of the mentality that led to black men being lynched and black women being systematically raped…only in reverse

    i think that it’s all connected in the pathological mind of the racist white male.

    Like


  469. @ Peanut,

    Interesting way of looking at it. Never considered that some white men would do that as an attempt to get at black men. Nice observation that this comes out in like sports forums etc… Very interesting…

    But yeah, I think any woman can pretty much get at least one guy out there within her immediate circle to sleep with her without much effort whilst the same is not true for guys. Marriage and long term commitment are different though.

    Like


  470. on Sun 23 Sep 2012 at 21:18:14 MajorPrincess2

    “I know there are white men who are very nice and respectful to people and truly just regard Black women as regular women and human beings.”

    @Peanut. Lord, God I hope so. I was speaking about the racist white men too, as I stated several times. It just so happens that I believe the “average” white male is racist, especially when it comes to black people. Those white men who are very nice and respectful to people, who truly regard Black women as regular women and human beings need to speak up more often. And they need to do a lot of that speaking to the racist white men. As I’ve stated before, white men, in general, don’t usually cause a bleep on my radar. Nice or not, I don’t usually notice them. I’m not bashing them either. That’s all I ask in return.

    Like


  471. @ majorprincess,

    I agree

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  472. but it always comes back to black women somehow….we’re the only ethnicity of women that gets this much bashing and attention, it’s fascinating…

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  473. Yeah, Majorprincess, I agree too that those white men should speak up more often. They should let the racists know how beautiful and atractice they think black women are , and, that they would have no problem marrying a black woman if the right person came along….I certainly beleive that

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  474. I think black women are very beautiful and attractive. I’m more attracted to them than white women in general. What’s not to like? The curves, the lips, the deep brown hazel eyes, the beautiful complexion. Did I mention the curves? I did, and I shall mention them again…a proper woman has shapes, breasts butt, hips, thighs the whole nine yards. I don’t want to date a skirt drying stick.

    On a side note, since she was mentioned frequently, I never liked Angelina Jolie. Some people seem to think she has luscious lips, but I don’t think they look nice on her at all. So dry looking, not like proper full lips that are delicious like blossoming cherries waiting for to picked by another set of lips (preferably mine)…

    Like


  475. Phobeprunelle said:

    Yet earlier you said that “black men prefer racially ambiguous looking women.”

    It’s amazing no one has pointed out that flawed reasoning, because while you were clearing up one lie about ALL black men chasing white women, you started another by saying the above comment.

    I can assure you that Black Men magazine does not represent the preferences for even half of all U.S. born black men and with an 88% marriage figure of black men married to black women–these black women come in ALL shades, hair types, features, etc.

    Just by my own expereinces, black men tend to end up with ALL kinds of black women–but get this–you can see that they are indeed black.

    Phobeprunelle, I don’t think there’s any flaw in my reasoning above. To reiterate my points:

    1) Most black men do not chase white women. At least not to the exclusion of any other type of woman including black.

    2) Most black men have a lighter skin preference in women, which is virtually universal amongst all men.

    Of course black men will mostly marry black women of all colors. There is no other choice for the majority of them. Most men regardless of race don’t have a very wide choice of women to marry who would also be willing to marry them. What you have to look at is black men who have limitless choice in women. Black men who are wealthy, who are famous athletes or celebrities or in high power positions. They are amongst the relative few who can choose a woman of any phenotype they want. Almost all black men of power and celebrity end up with a woman lighter than they are. Barack Obama is the only exception I can think of off the top of my head. Now they don’t all end up with white women, but they often end up with a black woman who looks somewhat racially mixed — when given the choice.

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  476. I do not understand why it matters what people think of us. It is what we think of ourselves that matter. Here in England too many black people date outside their race and I am a shamed to say I use to be one of them. White men (some) thought of me as beautiful and it was nice but in the end I married a black man and it was what he thought of me that matter the most- If I was to be concerned with any man’s opinion!

    We need to move forward as a people and forget about the rest. There is a need for us to start protecting our culture that is being ripped off by so many whites, who hate us but want our music, style and language to call their own. I don’t know if you have noticed but every black music representative to come out of England just happened to be white i.e Adele, Jessie Jay, Joss Stone etc etc…. These are things that concern me. Not wither of not the world- particularly whites- finds me beautiful because to be perfectly honest I do not think much of them either. I find white people cheap and nasty! This is not a racist comment its just a matter of fact. People as shameless, disgusting and dishonest as white people should be ignored when they make degrading comments about us. At least we are not plastic! Plastic surgery on lips (to make fuller) bottom (to make rounder) and breast to make un-naturally large. These assets are organic to black women.

    Like I said before I use to date white men but the one thing I noticed about them was they wanted me to adore them. They wanted me to feel lucky I was with a white man. Instead of them feeling lucky that a black woman had the good heart to forgive all the evil their race committed against blacks. In the end I just ‘kissed my teeth.’ -Much to their dissapointment – and said goodbye.

    COME ON BLACK PEOPLE ‘KISS YOUR TEETH AND MOVE FORWARD’!

    Like


  477. Majorprincess2 said:

    White women chase black men thinking they’re going to get a better “brand” of sex and friendship than they believe is possible with a white man. White girls chase my brothers, my nephews, all the men in my family, pretty much. But the men in my family who are married, are married to beautiful black women.

    I obviously can’t speak to what’s happening in your family but I think people who claim white women are crazy about chasing black men are delusional for the most part. There’s a very strong stigma in America for white women who date black men. It’s a relative small minority of white women that have “jungle fever” and are looking for any sort of long-term commitment with a black man. There are some of course, but I’m talking about what’s common for the majority. If you look at any interracial dating/marriage statistics, white females of all women are the least likely to go out of their race. And if they do, they more likely end up with a Hispanic or Asian than a black man. You also made a claim about white men high-fiving black men who date women. That’s rubbish. White men generally can’t stand the sight of black men with white women. Most of them would never even date a white woman that they found out had been sexually active with black men prior. They will not express these views openly in public but if you read blogs where whites talk about race anonymously, this view is pretty much the norm.

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  478. Viveen said:

    I don’t know if you have noticed but every black music representative to come out of England just happened to be white i.e Adele, Jessie Jay, Joss Stone etc etc…. These are things that concern me.

    Who cares? They are not stopping black people from making music. There are hiphop artists from Japan, should I be angry about that? Music doesn’t exclusively “belong” to anybody. And it’s not like blacks haven’t borrowed from whites as well. For example the musical instruments like pianos, strings, guitars, synthesizers as well as the musical scales and music theory are of European origin. Should whites feel ripped off that blacks are using those??

    Not wither of not the world- particularly whites- finds me beautiful because to be perfectly honest I do not think much of them either. I find white people cheap and nasty! This is not a racist comment its just a matter of fact. People as shameless, disgusting and dishonest as white people should be ignored when they make degrading comments about us.

    Juxtapose the italic comment with the bold comment. If anyone made those same comments about our race, you’d have no problem seeing the racism in it.

    Like


  479. tulio said,

    “Most of them would never even date a white woman that they found out had been sexually active with black men prior.”

    and why do you think that is tulio?

    Like


  480. ^^^ It’s a deep seated psychological racism that goes back to slavery when white men would lynch a black man that so much as looked at a white woman, as well as stigmatize any white woman that associated with a black man. I don’t think that mentally has ever gone away, it’s just been repressed as one can’t express such views openly in modern society.

    Like


  481. actually most of the lynching started AFTER slavery, not during slavery. It was the black nadir that saw era of lynching, and rape

    Like


  482. but i see your point tulio

    Like


  483. on Mon 24 Sep 2012 at 01:08:02 MajorPrincess2

    Tulio said, “I obviously can’t speak to what’s happening in your family but I think people who claim white women are crazy about chasing black men are delusional for the most part.”

    @Tulio. I am not delusional, but I think maybe you are. Anyone who thinks white women don’t chase black men (especially successful athletes) is delusional, for the most part. You can live inside the rose-colored world you’ve created in your mind if you want to. That’s your prerogative. I live in truth. My nephews have had to hide from white girls out to make them leave them alone! They prefer “other” women and black women, as romantic mates, not white ones. But that does not stop the white ones from the pursuit. It’s ridiculous.

    Tulio said, “White men generally can’t stand the sight of black men with white women.” I have NO DOUBT that this is true. But it’s also true that when trying to act “cool” about it, they do pretend to like the black men that the white women are with.

    Tulio said, “Most of them would never even date a white woman that they found out had been sexually active with black men prior.” I have NO DOUBT that this is also true. The reason, however, might have something to do with the white man not wanting to be “measured” in terms of his “performance” to a black man.

    We could go on and on like this infinitely, and prove nothing. Everyone sees the world through their own eyes, their own experiences.

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  484. @ majorprincess

    fear of mandingo

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  485. or what they perceive to be a mandingo

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  486. MajorPrincess2:

    I am not delusional, but I think maybe you are. Anyone who thinks white women don’t chase black men (especially successful athletes) is delusional, for the most part.

    ALL women chase successful athletes. Not only white women. It’s not because they’re black, it’s because they have money and status. White women also chase successful white athletes as well in case you haven’t noticed.

    Like


  487. Black men who are wealthy, who are famous athletes or celebrities or in high power positions. They are amongst the relative few who can choose a woman of any phenotype they want. Almost all black men of power and celebrity end up with a woman lighter than they are.

    Yeah dunno about that claim Tulio, you should see the Toldson and Marks study on black marriage.

    And besides that; 88% of black men who have a personal income of 100,000 a year or more have black wives. I daresay that ALL these black women chosen by these men are “light” complexioned black chicks. Simply because black women come in ALL shades and tones and MOST sexually healthy black men do not have an issue with this.

    73.2% of black male professional athletes have black wives. Again, you telling me Tulio that ALL these black women have ONE look???????

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  488. ^^^ I didn’t say most successful black men marry non-black. I said most successful black men having a woman lighter than they are(including black women of course). I don’t have any stats on that but I’m just speaking from my personal observation.

    I don’t think there’s anything controversial about what I said given that you observe this with many other races of men. When I was in Thailand, the dark Thai men were most interested in Thai women that looked more Chinese. They were nuts about Japanese women. Dark Indian men prefer those lighter Indian women you see in the Bollywood movies. Whether this is due to colonialism or just some biological imperative that associates light skin with higher reproductive value I don’t know. But even amongst white males, they prefer the fairer looking Nordic women.

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  489. ^^^ Maybe for some men and maybe in your experience that rings true–but the fact of the matter is this:

    MOST people in this world are people of color and a stark majority are brown. Now get this; brown skinned people range in shades and tones form light, to medium, medium deep and deep and beyond. And plenty of brown women in this world are mated up or married to brown men either darker or lighter than them. So how can this be explained if in fact MOST black or brown men prefer “lighter” women???

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  490. @Tulio,

    Why are you picking on Vivien’s comments? What she said about white people does not compare to the economic, educational and political holocaust being waged against ALL people of color by the whites in power. Her statements are nothing more than normal reactions from people of color who are being mistreated globally…

    Like


  491. on Mon 24 Sep 2012 at 04:24:49 MajorPrincess2

    “ALL women chase successful athletes. Not only white women. It’s not because they’re black, it’s because they have money and status. White women also chase successful white athletes as well in case you haven’t noticed.”

    And white women chase other black men too, which was my point. You had said, “I think people who claim white women are crazy about chasing black men are delusional for the most part.” I simply used one prominent example, something you could identify with and not dispute. My nephews are not athletes, nor are any of my brothers. But all have, at times, been CHASED by white women. You might not want to see it, but it happens every day.

    Like


  492. Black women come in all colors, from ebony to ivory, to with all types of features. I’m a black author who loves to include black people of all colors in my novels and short stories. Here’s a link to one of my short stories, on Hub Pages, in case anyone is interested http://drmiddlebrook.hubpages.com/hub/Tales-from-the-Quarters. I have a collection of color-coded novels, but have only published the first one, Silver.

    Like


  493. phoebeprunelle said:

    MOST people in this world are people of color and a stark majority are brown. Now get this; brown skinned people range in shades and tones form light, to medium, medium deep and deep and beyond. And plenty of brown women in this world are mated up or married to brown men either darker or lighter than them. So how can this be explained if in fact MOST black or brown men prefer “lighter” women???

    I said that men tend to prefer lighter skinned women. A preference isn’t the same thing as a prerequisite. It doesn’t mean that a dark woman is disqualified as there’s much more to attraction and the chemistry that sparks between two people than merely skin shade. Secondly given that there’s roughly the same proportion of dark men and dark women, it’s not numerically possible that all dark men will end up with a light woman. So many will end up with women of their own color regardless. But my point is, when men actually have a choice, they tend to not date/marry women who are darker than themselves. This is almost universally true amongst all races of men, E. Asians, South Asians, Latins, blacks, Arabs, arguably even with whites in the sense that white males generally prefer blondes with blue eyes who tend to have the least melanin. I can think of no other famous black man besides Barack Obama that married a woman that’s darker than he is. I’m sure there are some, but the fact that we have to scratch our heads thinking of examples should tell you something about male preferences.

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  494. ^^^ This is the quote I responding to:

    There is a need for us to start protecting our culture that is being ripped off by so many whites, who hate us but want our music, style and language to call their own.

    Sorry, there’s just no nice way to say it, that’s a completely DUMB statement. What does that even mean to protect our culture from being ripped off?? Do we collectively “own” black culture? That would be like Japanese saying, “we must stop others from practicing Karate because that’s our culture and we’re being ripped off.” The best martial artists in the world are now black and white guys in MMA. Do I hear Asians with their panties in a bind over it because we “ripped off” their martial arts? Where does this stop? We live in a global world. We borrow aspects from other cultures that we like. Blacks do it as well.

    I just looked at the latest charts of the top 40 urban artists and almost all of them are black. So I don’t even know what Viveen is even talking about in first place. Because there are blue-eyed soul artists like Adele, doesn’t mean it’s some win-sum game for blacks. That’s just more good music to go around for everyone. Eminem didn’t stop black rap artists from coming up, he just created a market of his own. Get what I’m saying?

    Personally I’m flattered when I see people of other races expressing themselves in a soulful style of music. Or seeing non-black hiphop artists. It means black music is being celebrated universally. What’s wrong with that?

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  495. MajorPrincess2 / PowerFigure is banned for using a sock puppet.

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  496. Tulio, for sure there are some essence truths about what you are saying about culture…you dont have to pass through custums and have a passport stamped to learn and express another culture. I like your marcial arts analogy ( Anderson Silva is the champion and he is black Brazilian)…

    And, I also understand the points being made about culture being stolen , not recognising the true innovators and the A and R’s in record labels manipulating the situation , with the false rationalisation that its all about the market place and what sells ( they are so wrong about their desicians most of the time). This is valid also and worth noting.

    The biggest thing that black Americans can do about that is embrace and celibrate the culture they have innovated….the history of it…the great artists that did go the extra mile to innovate….

    People maybe cant control the corporations, but, they can obtain great self esteem and knowledge by looking past popular trends and hype and looking for the truth underneath

    The real gratification should be personal knowledge of the truth that is hidden…if you discover that, inside a person can find great inner fortification, and that will bust through the lies and hype more than anything…..after all, its not what others think and lie about, its the truth a person can find out about themselves and the world and how that truth is valid in the world

    The beauty of black women is a great case in point. Against the grain of a lot of popular media hype, black women can find the truth about their incredible beauty and culture and gain great strength and self esteem from that…it doesnt have to matter if the corporations never come around and tell the truth…to know it inside is the best thing of all

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  497. on Mon 24 Sep 2012 at 15:11:45 grin and bear it

    Denzel Washington and Samuel Jackson with their lovely brown-skinned wives:

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  498. on Mon 24 Sep 2012 at 16:02:49 grin and bear it

    Also, Malcolm X and Betty Shabazz. So there’s POTUS & FLOTUS, Malcolm & Betty, Denzel & Pauletta, Samuel & LaTonya — all prominent black men with dark-skinned wives. And that’s just off the top of my head.

    And if men in general prefer “light” women, how does that explain some of the prominent white men with black wives/lovers: David Bowie, Roger Ebert, George Lucas, Ron Perlman, Robert DeNiro, Chris Noth, Matt Stone (creator of South Park, of all things) Peter Norton (of Norton Antivirus fame), Wolfgang Puck, Robin Thicke, Bill Mahr, Congressman William Cohen, Justin Chambers (Gray’s Anatomy), Mats Carlston (a famous attorney), Rod Spencer (an author married to Alfre Woodard), and the list goes on.

    I’m curious about this “men prefer light wives” notion. Where did it come from? And what real proof do you have to substantiate it?

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  499. Why are we still arguing about a non point? If black woman were considered unattractive, the entire planet would not exist. Please stop falling for this.

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  500. Grin and bear it said:

    Also, Malcolm X and Betty Shabazz. So there’s POTUS & FLOTUS, Malcolm & Betty, Denzel & Pauletta, Samuel & LaTonya — all prominent black men with dark-skinned wives. And that’s just off the top of my head.

    And if men in general prefer “light” women, how does that explain some of the prominent white men with black wives/lovers: David Bowie, Roger Ebert, George Lucas, Ron Perlman, Robert DeNiro, Chris Noth, Matt Stone (creator of South Park, of all things) Peter Norton (of Norton Antivirus fame), Wolfgang Puck, Robin Thicke, Bill Mahr, Congressman William Cohen, Justin Chambers (Gray’s Anatomy), Mats Carlston (a famous attorney), Rod Spencer (an author married to Alfre Woodard), and the list goes on.

    You’re mistaking a general claim for being an absolute claim. I didn’t say all black men end up with light women or that no white men end up with dark women. I even said earlier up in the thread that outside of America, black women often fare better. But in my mind and what I’ve observed, there is no question in my mind about any of this. We’ve discussed the issue of Zoe Soldana playing Nina Simone, but part of that is probably due to skin color. If you put Zoe and Nina(in her prime) side by side, I bet you more brothas would be hollering at Zoe. http://uptownmagazine.com/files/2012/08/nina-simone-zoe-saldana.jpg . I don’t even have any doubt about that.

    I’m curious about this “men prefer light wives” notion. Where did it come from? And what real proof do you have to substantiate it?

    Why is this farfetched? I don’t think it’s much different than what the results of the doll test revealed.

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  501. @ tulio

    if you put BRIA MYLES and saldana up against each other i bet MORE brothas would be hollering at bria myles…how about that?

    Like


  502. and light-skin is completely over-rated and this is coming from a black woman who by some standards would be considered “light-skinned.” Light skin or dark skin has nothing to do with how attractive a person is, that’s a myth period. light skin is good when you’re in a cooler climate and there is less sun, dark skin is good when you’re in a climate where it’s hot and there’s more sun. that’s the only thing that makes one skin color more beneficial than the other, it has no other benefit. it doesn’t mean ur more beautiful or ugly.

    isn’t it SO STUPID when you think about it that just because someone skin has more or less melanin in it, that makes them less desirable, that’s so stupid when u think about it because it’s just a natural adaptive trait, as if there is something wrong with being dark skinned.

    THE ONLY reason that some men might prefer lighter skin is because they’ve been brainwashed to prefer lighter skin THAT IS IT.

    all this nonsense about light skin being more feminine is just that nonsense.

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  503. and i think SOME Black men use the dark skin=masculine MYTH to make themselves feel better. they want to appear more masculine and sadly, in addition to the mandingo myth, some black men use the dark skin myth to boost their self esteem..very sad.

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  504. on Tue 25 Sep 2012 at 02:48:44 grin and bear it

    Tulio, this is what you said:

    But my point is, when men actually have a choice, they tend to not date/marry women who are darker than themselves. This is almost universally true amongst all races of men…

    And my point is that it’s not a universal truth.

    Your statement implies that it’s an inborn phenomenon — that men have a natural proclivity towards “light” women, that it’s just a part of who they are. That, of course, is nonsense, and why I gave examples of some very prominent men — all of them multimillionaires, all of them highly respected amongst their peers, all of them with a degree of influence and power that most other men can only dream about, all of them with access to some very cream of the crop women, and all of them with the ability to choose and GET whomever they want. They all chose women darker than themselves.

    Additionally, when many non-black men choose black women, they’re not that interested in or looking at the tint of her skin. I think Abagond had a post about it awhile back. In my experience and from my frame of reference, Abagond’s findings were similar to what I’ve noticed: if they’re into black women, they don’t care if she’s “light” or “dark,” but they do care about the features of her face and the shape of her body. Not so much her skin tone. Many, in fact, don’t even understand the nuances of “light-skin” black vs. “dark-skin” black. They just know they’re dating a “black” woman.

    Furthermore, you seem to be basing your assumption on the doll test, which is more about racism and racialized brainwashing, than about men’s “natural” or “universal” preferences. I wonder what preferences would be universal if people had never seen magazines, movies, TV, other pop culture, or even been affected by European colonialism? I also wonder what sort of preferences would exist if a different standard of beauty had been pushed all along.

    As for Zoe Saldana playing Nina Simone, by and large, Hollywood doesn’t cast dark-skinned black women unless they need maids, drug addicts or maybe the “black best friend.” This was the case 50 or 60 years ago, and it’s still pretty much the case today. And it’s perpetrated by black filmmakers as well as white ones. With very few exceptions, dark women do not play the lead, and if they do, they are not allowed to be glamorous, they are not allowed to be iconic, they do not have a love life, they do not have inner monologues or aspirations beyond whatever goal they’re pursuing in the movie, which is usually some variant of making the white characters feel better about themselves. The day Hollywood casts a black woman as a lead in a movie where she gets to be smart, sexy, funny, determined, vulnerable, triumphant — real — is the day that hell freezes over.

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  505. We can also add to the list of black guys who are/were married/dating to dark women or darker than them:

    Isiah Washington
    Doug Christie
    Ron Artest
    Courtney B. Vance
    Tyler Perry
    Marcus Samuelson (married Ethiopian born model Maya Gate Haile)
    Usher
    Anthony Hamilton
    Chris Tucker (last i heard he was with India Arie)
    Nelly (Ashanti)
    Micheal Clarke Duncan (before he passed Omarosa)
    Walter Sisulu (married to his dark South African wife for 60 plus years)
    Maxwell (Ananda Lewis)

    Of course this is not a complete list; but this happens way more often than the media would care to show. Why? Because its only normal and easily goes unnoticed. In other words, its not news. But the Kardashian sisters high profile romances with black men somehow is…

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  506. don’t forget huey p newton and miriam makeba, a light skinned black man and a darker skinned black woman

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  507. so sorry makeba was married to stokely carmichael, not newton

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  508. You’re about right with Huey Newton, Peanut. He was with Elaine Brown all those years. She is by no one’s measures a light black woman.

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  509. ahhh yes elain brown i want to read her book “a taste of power,” about the sexual double standards in the black power movement. Huey Newton was hot btw.

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  510. It seems like famous black men paired with non-black(usually white) women are the most romantically profiled for some reason. Nobody(white, mainstream entertainment media) gave a d@mn who Kanye was with until he got with Amber Rose and now Kim K. He had a cute black female LTR that hardy got the shine Amber Rose got. Diddy’s longtime partner is a black female of brown to dark completion but his relationship with her isn’t highly profiled. Same with Rick Ross, famous black male rapper w/ dark skin gf/fiancé, nobody is trying to snap them like that.

    When Reggie Bush and Kim K split he pretty much fell off when it came to having his picture snapped. When Kim was rumored to be with her sexy, white bodyguard it didn’t seem as profiled and the headline fizzed pretty quickly.

    I’m not going to discount Tulio’s theory because there does seem to be a significant amount of men that prefer lighter women than themselves. Notice I said significant, I don’t know if its most/more than half but its a sizeable chunk. However, I think we néed to be careful using media examples because I feel they cherry pick certain race/color-gender combo couples and promote them over others. I wouldn’t go as far as saying they have an ‘agenda'(although the case can certainly be made) but the MSM does like to play into America’s fascination, in some cases fear, of white/light women with darker, non-white males.

    For what it’s work I read a poll in Jet magazine a ways back asking if black men prefer light(er) skin women. About 30% had a light skin preference while the rest either had no preference or preferred dark skin.

    I am a woman who is darker and I have never heard a man, regardless of race comment about me or any other woman being ‘too dark’ to be pretty. Never heard ‘you are pretty to be black/dark’ either.

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  511. on Tue 25 Sep 2012 at 07:43:05 grin and bear it

    It is interesting that the romantic pairings of famous black women often don’t rate coverage — even when both people are famous. With the exception of Barack & Michelle, Bey & Jay, and Will & Jada, the media largely ignores the love stories of black women.

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  512. I dont know, I actualy beleive that a lot black American men think like I do and are awed and amazed at the range of colors and beauty of the black woman to be able to choose from. I feel so lucky and greatful to have had relationships with black women of all shades and colors, from the darkest of black to very light

    Where I grew up, a lot of my black American colleagues didnt really go into deep indication of preferance .This was before “black is beautiful “came out, and when that happened, all of a sudden there was lots of natural hair and pride in skin color….funny how things slip and slide around, so that skin tone is an issue again…of course, the point of view of my black American colleagues might have been regional and in another place, colorism might have been much greater

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  513. beautiful black women are plentiful, I grew up in London around many extremely attractive Caribbean and African black women, they are considered attractive by men of all races. the ideas in this article seem hung over from old fashion racism, statements like black women are unattractive is akin to all black people look the same.

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  514. Another point of view:

    African/Black women are beautiful!
    ALL shapes, sizes, shades, heights, ethnicities …

    I’ve never seen an UGLY (smiling and happy) black female. Let me say this again – there is no one more awesome, dazzling, inspiring, uplighting, encouraging than a smiling/laughing/happy/positive/smart/loving sistah!

    Physical attraction is often what kick-starts a *physical* relationship, but it’s far from what SUSTAINS a real, meaningful long-term relationship.

    Let’s remember that ALL truly beautiful/desirable women will have attractive INNER qualities.

    Remember this song? Beauty’s Only Skin Deep? It says what I’m trying to articulate.

    So in love, sad as could be
    ‘Cause a pretty face got the best of me.
    Suddenly, you came into my life
    And gave it meaning and pure delight.
    Now, good looks, I’ve learned to do without.
    ‘Cause now I know it’s love that really counts.

    ‘Cause I know that…
    (Beauty’s only skin deep, yeah, yeah, yeah.)
    I know that…
    Beauty’s only skin deep, yes indeed.

    Now you speak your words warm and sincere.
    And let’s me know that your love is near.
    A pretty face you may not possess
    But what I like about you is your tenderness.
    A pretty face maybe some guys taste
    But I’ll take lovin’ in it’s place.

    My friends ask, what do I see in you
    But it goes deeper than the eye can view.
    You have a pleasin’ personality
    And that’s an ever lovin’ rare quality.
    Now show me a girl, a girl that’s fine
    And I’ll choose the one with true lovin’ every time.

    So if you’re lookin’ for a lover.
    Don’t judge a book by it’s cover.
    She may be fine on the outside.
    But so untrue (ugly) on the inside.

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  515. @Matari,

    But you don’t even have to go that far in saying something as cliche’ as “beauty is only skin deep”…mainly because black women have never had a problem attracting successful black men. When i say successful (meaning black men who are respected among his colleagues, etc…much like what Grin and Bear it was saying.)

    And if black men deep down thought black women were in fact “ugly” they are having a hard time showing it as 88% of ALL married black men are married to black women. Of wealthy black men (100,000 or more a year), 83% have black chicks as wives….

    The reality is that black men and women have IR marriage options–therefore it is plausible to come to the conclusion that black people can marry who they want–yet somehow we are overwhelmingly choosing each other as romantic partners…

    Like


  516. Peanut said:

    @ tulio

    if you put BRIA MYLES and saldana up against each other i bet MORE brothas would be hollering at bria myles…how about that?

    That would make for an interesting experiment. Bria is definitely hot. She also has just the body type that is highly sought after by many black men.

    Like


  517. Y said:

    It seems like famous black men paired with non-black(usually white) women are the most romantically profiled for some reason. Nobody(white, mainstream entertainment media) gave a d@mn who Kanye was with until he got with Amber Rose and now Kim K. He had a cute black female LTR that hardy got the shine Amber Rose got. Diddy’s longtime partner is a black female of brown to dark completion but his relationship with her isn’t highly profiled. Same with Rick Ross, famous black male rapper w/ dark skin gf/fiancé, nobody is trying to snap them like that.

    When Reggie Bush and Kim K split he pretty much fell off when it came to having his picture snapped. When Kim was rumored to be with her sexy, white bodyguard it didn’t seem as profiled and the headline fizzed pretty quickly.

    You may indeed have a point there. Nobody knew(or cared) who Seal was dating before Heidi Klum. I looked him up on whodatedwho.com and found out he had dated Tyra Banks, but nobody talked about that much. You also hear a lot about Jay-Z and Beyonce, but I wonder if we would if she was dark? Denzel is may be the most important black actor of our time but his wife is basically invisible to the media. Yet everyone knows all about the significant others of Sandra Bullock, Tom Cruise and Brad Pitt. Though It could be that maybe Denzel takes greater efforts to keep his personal life private.

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  518. on Thu 4 Oct 2012 at 05:11:27 NotDownWithHate

    The racism in this is obnoxious. You should have just stated why you believe black women are pretty. Instead you only focused on what YOU thought only WHITE people felt about them (generalizing an ENTIRE race but expecting respect?), and not stopping to think that the beauty issue goes for every person, every race, everywhere.

    Everybody is beautiful. But nobody will ever see it until we stop dividing ourselves.

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  519. @abagond

    Mira said:

    “So are you trying to say Obama didn’t have a choice? If you look “clearly” black, white or Asian, you can’t choose?”

    Right.

    I know where you are coming from (I know about the “rules” involved), but can you consider looking at it from another perspective? I do think the society is evolving on this issue.

    I read Dreams from my Father also, and I think that Obama, did in fact, choose.

    And are you implying that you can choose only if
    – you look ethnically ambiguous; or
    – you can pass as some version of white (which may be different from what you actually are)

    and you, indeed MUST choose a single label?

    But even these (what you can pass as) are a matter of opinion which vary from person to person. Moreover, it is not a straightforward thing to simply be something what people think you can pass as.

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  520. I don’t understand why black women are seen as less attractive, the media likes to push the idea that white is more beautiful but honestly I think you get just many average or unattractive white people just as in any race. Some white women like to emulate the looks of black women but wouldn’t actually want to be black because they would then have less privilege in society. full lips, curvy figure and brown skin is coveted by many white women.
    I think that the average white british or american person is not very attractive on average, the best looking white people are scandinavian or italian/spanish. But to me the most beautiful people come from Cape Verde, Brazil, Trinidad & Tobago, so my beauty ideal is more ‘brown centric’.
    I’m mixed black and white but see myself more as black because I can relate to the looks of black women like en vogue more than I can to white women who look like britney or paris hilton.

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  521. It has nothing to do with racism.

    Men like feminine women, black American women are extremely masculine, they are loud, aggressive & confrontational, they act like men. To put it into perspective, it’s like asking a heterosexual women why she isn’t interested in an overtly feminine man – women don’t like feminine men because they seem like females. Black women in the US come across as more manly than female, go somewhere else outside the US for black women, go to a place where American culture isn’t prominent, in the African continent the black women are completely different, they’re feminine, they act like women & are much more attractive because of it.

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  522. So many of you are so quick to jump on the whole they don’t look feminine thing… I say poppycock they look very feminine. They look amazing naked. They turn all heads from white to Hispanic to black. They have curves that make you want to slap someone. They are athletic which can make them better at uh mm certain things. You act as if having stronger bodies and more muscle is a bad thing it means they are in shape. I am sorry the black woman’s body, skin color, style, shape, smell, etc… wins out in this W/H man’s mind any day period nuff said.

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  523. I am a young Black woman of Jamaican descent and some of the replies about Black women being masculine is totally not true. Black women are the original race of women so I believe Black women are the original women. All this Western standard of beauty crap keeps on brainwashing people into thinking White women are the best looking women on the planet and the most desirable. That is not true. There are many beautiful Black women out there as well as beautiful White women, Latinas and Asian women.There is ugly and beautiful in all races but I have a rather different standard of beauty than the media’s narrow minded view of beauty.
    @Jennifer,
    Girl, you took all of my words! You nailed it!
    My standard of beauty is brown centric too.

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  524. ABAGOND WHY DID U DELETE MY COMMENTS? where are they???

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  525. The repulsion I have for Black females is both physical and psychological. I’ll begin with the physical aspects. I don’t like the separation of pigment on the hands and feet. They have strangely long and thin fingers. Their palms also have incongrous pigmentation within the grooves and lines. Their feet are especially unattractive where the skin is ashy. The feet are also flat and the heels protrude. They also have potato chip toenails. The second toe is almost always longer than the big toe. I find that very unattractive.As far as their physiognamy, they really don’t have hair. It isn’t anything like Asian, Caucasian or Amerindian hair who can grow their hair long and beautiful. Negro hair is fuzzy and nappy and feels like a Brillo pad. This is why the Black females spend at great costs to get their hair relaxed, straightened or weaved. Whatever it is, they hate their own hair and try to emulate the hair of other races. Their facial features are conditioned as Prognathous, whereas they approximate the Simian form. Their jaws protrude which gives the lower region of their face a muzzle formation. Their occipital orbits are large and round which gives them that bug-eyed manic look. As far as their lips are concerned, there is a stark difference between a Caucasian woman with full lips and a Black female with large lips. The Black has lips that protrude outward like a fish. A White woman may have large lip tissue, but they don’t protrude as much. Blacks usually have the receded chin which also accentuates the protruding lips. Their nostrils are broader than the average female, sometimes half the width of their faces. Their ears are also small and are placed higher on the head. Their torsos are also more circular in the trunk compared to other races. While they have larger pelvic bones, their hips are longer and more narrow. With their usual bulbous haunches this looks odd with a narrow pelvis. Their forearms are much longer than their braccium which also approximates the Simian form. They also tend to have large thighs with unusually thin calves. This again lacks uniformity and aesthetic female proportions.
    The shape of their heads also vary. Sometimes they have melon shaped heads. Also the top of the heads are pointed known as the Sagittal keel. This feature is only evident in the Black races. Their craniums are narrow as if they were squeezed from out of a tube.Their eyes can have that jaundiced look. sometimes the pink lining inside their lips can be seen while their mouths are just relaxed.
    Personalities can vary among Black females. While some are friendly and open, some are aggressive and uncouth. They tend to be very loud and can shreik without any warning or particular reason. Their speech and elocution is also poor which can repel the average man. Combine the attributes of both physical and mental and you may have a ghastly combination. Just saying how it is, don’t get all mad. Keepin’ it real and scientific.

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  526. Haha!!! Do you think anyone is really going to read a looong ass crazy manifesto like that from a guy who calls himself “Garlin?”

    Hahahahahahaha!!! Feel the depth of my ridicule!

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  527. Lol @ Garlin

    you remind me of that guy on true life im giving my boyfriend an ultimatum. That guy was talking about his girlfriends toe because her toe was longer than her big toe. So Garlin do you like black men or do you dislike both black men and women.

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  528. @king I read half of it and it’s all garbage(from Garlin). If you are truly a straight man you can’t tell me you never looked at a black woman and said “Damn”. I usually say “Holy Sh$*” I’m a happily married man to a white woman… but come on this guy is blind.

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  529. Im going to break my “listening mode” to answer this crud.

    First, the seperation of pigment in the hands and feet in the black women is like God’s fine marble scupture in living skin..exquisite

    Black woman’s feet ugly? You have to be kidding, dont let this punk fool anybody here, black women’s feet are gorgeous, Im not a foot fetish, but, my wifes feet are petit , adorable, well preportioned , and beautiful

    Hair? The wonderful curly hair of the black woman is meant to compliment all the features in her face in symetry that is just stunning. The texture of black women’s hair is incredibly special and the world would be at a serious loss if black women’s hair didnt exist.The incredible bouncyness and buoyancy of the black woman’s hair is extremly atractive, the hair almost makes a sound when the woman moves, like some kind of jewelry

    Nostrils? This chump has to be in serious denial, the black womans nose is just absolutly the most atractive of all,and the sensual lips of the black woman are nothing short of luscious

    “Bulbous Huanches”? I mean cmon, the black womans booty pretty much smokes the competition anywhere…this guy is sick

    You know that pick lining inside the lips is a big turn on

    This guy is an unbeleivable chump…

    Back to “listening mode”

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  530. spelling damage control: “marble sculpture” “pink lining”

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  531. @ Garlin:

    For someone who disdains a group of people, you sure pay a lot of attention to them! Get a life you sos.

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  532. The simplest answer as to “why black women are seen as ugly” is that in all reality they are not seen as ugly. The political agenda of white supremacy uses images to distort the reality and the reality is that Black women–throughout history– have been admired by ALL people. White people do not “hate” Black women–they fear us overpowering them genetically through femininity…hence enslavement,colonizations and the other horrors that have happened to Black people.

    Black women are the progenitors of womanhood. Black men are the fathers of mathematics, science and human philosophy. White people “genetically” are our kids. So… are we going to continue to let the children run the world and lead like we are supposed to?

    I will let the video speak for itself:

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  533. I knew a few of the posters would get all butthurt over my analysis. But isn’t what this whole topic is all about? What more do you want? In order to achieve an accurate summary from all people you need to look at the complexity of the issue. What I stated was based solely on empirical observation. If the truth hurts, so be it.

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  534. TO: B.R.
    Yes, the feet of Black females I find unattractive. Sizes can vary but they usually have longer feet than the races of other women. But it’s not just the size that makes them ugly, it’s the shape. They don’t have any arches and their feet are flat as a pancake. While Caucasian, Amerindian and Asian women have a pronounced instep, Blacks have flat feet. Their feet are also narrow in relation to their length.

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  535. @Garlin–you are as gay as the day is long..most black people haven’t taken the time to dissect our physical attributes, and yet…you have…you sound like that character in Shallow Hal…toe measurements? What, did some sistah pull out the ruler and measure your endowments and you came up lacking?..Anyway, black women are the origianal vessel thru which the species and the planet has been populated. What could be more beautiful than that?

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  536. Oh no!!! Please tell me that people aren’t actually reading it!!??

    Dave, how did you get to the halfway point? After the first two sentences I said out loud to myself, “What am I doing? His name is even Garlin!”

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  537. I just can’t believe it Legion.. I mean, he’s obviously deranges, and he obviously has a weird FOOT FETISH to boot! He talks like he’s never even seen a real Black woman up close. Geez, what’s to discuss?

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  538. Empirical observation is not truth. It sounds like you wish it to be “true” that Blackwomen are objectively ugly to ALL people. However in dealing with historical and even modern day truths, your empirical observation is based on what you “wish” to be true about Blackwomen.

    I wish a lot of things were “true”, but wishing it into existence is virtually impossible–therefore, i accept what is tangible and can be backed up with scientific fact. And Blackwomen being “objectively” more unattractive is not a scientific fact.

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  539. This ones for you ‘Garlin’, it describes you to a tee:

    http://herneithmyblog.com/2011/05/23/are-black-women-ugly-or-is-it-small-peckered-men-that-make-them-so/

    Folks, ‘Garlin’ and his ilk are not here to ‘debate’ but to insult and illustrate their contempt for black folks. Whilst funny, they can and do serve as educational, as they write things on a blog that they would never say to a black person in the real world. It is nice to know what they are actually thinking as well as hilarious.

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  540. LOL @ Legion seriously. I bet he has “phrenology” and “drapetomania” books on “Negroids”! Oh this is rich! He comes here with his pseudoscience and expects us to get riled up over THIS?

    ***DYING over here imagining this fool with a caliper and a jewelers loupe on his hands and knees over a Black womans foot!!!!!*************** OMG I cant breathe!!! LMAO!!

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  541. The reactions to my post would be hilarious if they weren’t so sad and demented. Let’s first establish that “Beauty is in the eye of the beholder”. The old hackneyed adage rings true through the ages as it is a subject that is entirely subjective in the human mind. I succinctly described the Black female anatomy in scientific detail which was very cordial and generous on my part. So if we can accept that beauty is subjective your proclamation of Blacks females being attractive is just as absurd as my assessment of them being unattractive. We can talk in circles all day, but we have to compromise in order to extend this topic to possessing any rational substance.
    As for this (Hernieth) who sent me this gruesome blog? Anyone who takes the time to pull these bizarre and grotesque blogs must have some serious mental issues. No,my penis is not small, but rather fairly large. Perhaps, this was a baiting ploy to get you to see it? I wouldn’t be surprised if that was your intention.
    I would also like to note that Black males are constantly scouring the dating websites vying for the attention of White females. I have a very pretty friend who is a mixture of Amerindian and European. She is barraged by Black males sending her messages and begging to go out with her. What does this tell you?
    I also read that if a Black female is ever hired to work at an exotic strip club, they never last more than 2 weeks. apparently, they lack the attention from male patrons and cannot earn any tips. I don’t go to strip clubs, but that is what I read.
    As for having a foot fetish. I love pretty feet. My wife has the prettiest feet. She’s got all the women beat.
    My new motto:
    Ugly feet and ugly toes are an offense to my eyes and nose.

    Like


  542. @Garlin

    I can also create a long list of unattractive stereotypes of white women:

    1. uneven skin tone — freckly, bloody red patches, veins visible beneath the skin, pasty and unattractive skin coloration in most areas (leading them to risk their health by “tanning”), but generally uneven and disgusting to look at; liver spots increase with age, skin sags at a much younger age than women of other races (leading them to get facelifts at much higher rate than similarly situated black women)

    2. Face – completely covered by very light, thin hair to protect them against the sun, much hairier on average than other women; masculine chins (butt chins, large and protruding chins, etc.); wrinkles present at early age

    3. Hair Texture – same as that of a horse or dog (designed to protect the head from the bitter cold ice-age weather), and full of lice (much more than the average black woman, statistically speaking)

    4. Feet – usually a stub on the back of the heel or oddly flattened heel; dry, flat and crusty soles that are specifically prone to cracking, toes bloody red, inconsistent with pale skin tone on top of foot

    5. Lips – thin (not good for kissing like the black woman’s; leading women with money to get collagen injections at a much higher rate than others); dry, discolored

    6. Buttocks – flat (as if an extended portion of the lower back), not curvy and sexy like the black woman’s

    7. Calves – tend to be more muscular, like their male counterparts, disgusting blue, red and green vericose veins

    8. Nails – oddly shaped, brittle, yellowish

    9. Breasts – smaller on average than black women; more likely to be unable to lactate (which is why they used their black slaves to breastfeed their children in early America); more prone to breast cancer than black women

    Just a few of my empirical observations…

    Like


  543. For the life of me I can not understand comments like Garlin’s. If someone or some group of people are so repulsive to you, you sure are WASTING plenty of time writing a long manifesto on what makes them unattractive. Not to mention coming back to the comments for an encore. The people I find unattractive I just don’t interact with or discuss in romantic contexts. I don’t even know all the reasons why they are unattractive to me and I don’t care to dissect them. All I know is their physical appearance is unappealing to me and that the beginning and the end of it all. Doesn’t make them bad people, they are just not for me.

    On the other hand I DO discuss and go through the reasons why I am attracted to certain physical/mental traits, it give me a clear picture of what I like and should look for in a mate. I just don’t understand people who do the exact opposite and feel the need to profile their findings on a blog frequented by the “uglies”. Just seems like strange…and pathetic.

    Like


  544. I feel that Black women are seen as quite attractive these days, especially with Beyonce, Rhianna, Nicki Minaj, and other artists, shaking everything their mother gave them in the music videos. Mainly thanks to their world wide influence, you now see more men of all races/ethnicities starting to think that bigger torsos, wider hips, larger butts and curves are way more attractive and far more marketable than in the 80s and 90s. We now have white women running to their surgeons to get butt implants to achieve a more curvy body look, similar to a black woman.

    But the problem for me, isn’t whether we are seen as “attractive” by men of other minorities or not, the thing I am eventually wishing for is that we will be seen as PEOPLE with worth. Our “beautiful” qualities seem only to be sex appeal. Many white men think that black women are “attractive” enough for a “roll in the hay” with, or for “a good time,” but nothing more. There have been several times I’ve been approached by older white businessmen who were gushing about how “beautiful” they thought I was, how they loved my lips and shape, and were far too eager to buy me drinks and to invite me back to their hotels that night. (However, I was not fooled. I noticed all too well the rings on their finger, or the family pictures on the screens of their phone when they received calls and texts, of course their wives were white women.) Just like in slavery, the masters thought the slave women were “attractive” enough to sleep with but to make them the mistress of the house? It would NEVER happen, and there were even laws against it.

    Things haven’t changed that much today. Black women shouldn’t have much trouble finding other ethnicity men to be their short term boyfriends or for maybe long-term trysts, but would these men be willing to propose marriage or to bring her home to mom, and make her his legal wife? Probably not. They will pretty much end up marrying a white woman so they don’t have to risk their family’s wrath or negative backlash because they are “marrying down”.

    I was very shocked but pleased that Oliver Martinez actually proposed to Halle Berry. But Halle Berry is like the queen of gorgeous women of any ethnicity, so I’m not too surprised. However Oliver is gorgeous and rich himself and would have no problem getting any white woman he wants but he chose Halle. It is interesting to note, however, how Halle’s past boyfriend, Gabriel Aubrey, would not marry her but had no problem producing a baby. Even more interesting is, according to TMZ and other sources, he goes “nuts” when people refer to his daugher, Nahla, as black. So you can see this trend happening even with rich and sucessful black women are with white men. Often we may be seen as “attractive” but we still are not really seen as people.

    Like


  545. LOL @ resw77!!

    He’s lingering to see how he pissed of the “uglies” and is peeved because we are not angry. :) This is too funny and pathetic to even get angry at. He’s putting all this effort into this for what reason? Let him loiter and get clowned because he’s really not worth much more effort than that.

    ***still chuckling at the thought of him with a caliper over a Black woman’s big toe!***

    Like


  546. DEAD @ resw77!! :P I’m sorry but that’s too funny! I guess what’s good for the goose isn’t good for the gander. I wonder if he’s put so much thought into why so many of his women age in dog years….

    Like


  547. I can see my input has been well recieved and appreciated. i enjoy the entertinment. But this subject has exhausted my attention span and I shll depart.

    As far as being prone to diseases? Let’s not forget the Sickle cell, AIDS and Herpes rates among the Black community.

    Like


  548. How about we not forget the Tay-Sachs, cystic fibrosis, Crohn’s disease, skin cancer and infertility among the White community. :)

    Like


  549. Don’t let the screen door hitcha where the good Lord splitcha. You’ll be back though? We all know it. Even if you don’t say anything in response (which you probably will because you seem thirsty), you’ll come back and sift through the comments. And don’t forget to take your inch-of-negro-toe measuring caliper with you! LMAO!!!!! :P

    Like


  550. Wait!!… Garlin…. WAIT!

    And I was just beginning to like him…

    Oh well, there are plenty of other feet on the internet I suppose. We can’t expect him to spend the rest of his life contemplating the crevices and arches of Black women’s feet can we.

    What a weirdo.

    Like


  551. ““Bulbous Huanches”? I mean cmon, the black womans booty pretty much smokes the competition anywhere…this guy is sick”

    *********

    LMAO : )))

    I gotta agree with you B.R. – on all counts!!!!
    And for once I’m even finding myself agreeing with dave.. [looking out the window to see if an asteroid is coming at me! lol]

    Any (hetro) man that doesn’t LOVE BLACK WOMEN’s typical shapely and Bulbous Haunches is ill!! Something has gone terribly awry with his genetic/male makeup.

    hey Garlin – thanks for the needed comic relief!

    Like


  552. As a Black male I’ll just say this;…when God made Black women,…He was just showing off.

    Like


  553. @darqbeauty

    Just giving that fool, Garlin a taste of his own medicine (I’m not really as ignorant as he)…

    Like


  554. Goodbye Dr. Zachary Smith of Lost in Space fame…I bet you sound just like him too..

    Like


  555. I Forgot to retort to a couple of scientifically ignorant posts in response to my original assessment. It is measurable that Black females are the least attractive compared to other races. It is so obvious it’s laughable. Blacks are trying to alter their potato shaped noses, lips and kinky fuzz that grows from out of their heads. As far as butt implants? I think there is a tiny % of White and Asian females who partake in that idiocy and it’s such a negligible amount that it’s stupid to even mention. As far as Whites sunbathing to get tans. First off, A White person with tan skin looks nothing like the skin tone of any Black female. The White tan is more like a bronze or amber color. It is not fecal color at all. So stop trying to flatter yourselves.
    I was quite kind in my analogy. I didn’t mention that Black females emit a very disagreeable body odor. I also didn’t mention the Black specific maladies such as scabies. But since I am ostensibly superior in looks and intellect to everyone here I will respond to another issue.
    Someone mentioned that Black females are the progenitors of all women. This is a misconception that scientists have found false through biological and DNA research. Whites, Asians and Amerindians all have 4% neanderthal DNA, whereas the Blacks have 0%. This concludes that we are so genetically removed that I am more related to a neanderthal that lived 180,000 years ago than a modern day Black. Blacks want to be related to other races and wish that were so, but it happens to be faulty. This is why scientists who specialize in Biological Evolutionary theory regard Blacks as a different species or even generra.
    You can believe or try to kid yourselves that you are dee most bootiful en sheeit! That’s okay. I don’t care. But at least I bck my claims with data, science and observation. I don’t resort to ad hominem barbs that are a reflection of the inferiority complexes you have revealed. Get over it! i gave you my opinion.

    Like


  556. He’s back! He hates Black women so much…yet he keeps coming back. After telling us that his “attention span was exhausted”. Well, not only is he crazy as cat sh*t but his word isn’t worth spit either. Oh Black women…we must weep and wail and gnash our teeth over the fact that this fine specimen of a male doesn’t want us! Observe all that we and our future generations will be bereft of.

    :'(

    Like


  557. @ Garlin

    You want to know what is funny. I am black and nothing in your analysis describes me. My whole life I had hair that reaches my butt. Beautiful soft curly hair. I have size 8 feet but most black females I know have smaller feet than me and hey my feet are not flat.

    Now I will say that for someone who does not like black females you sure did take the time to make a long winded post in regards to them and in detail. I see a love hate obsession here. Maybe rejected by a black female or something.

    Like


  558. Bwahahha!
    If you are Black then that hair isn’t natural. Get serious! Is it an extension? A weave? Did you use some processing chemical to get it relaxed. These are rhetorical questions. I have never seen a Black who had an arch in their foot.
    In regards to getting rejected, it has never happened with a black. I actually had to reject a few advances from Black females hitting on me. i’m never rude. I just joke around and make light of the subject and move on. I could cite examples, but whatever.
    I am having so much fun shutting you down. It’s amusing. If i weren’t so devious I would let it go.
    I be keepin’ it real. It’s all good, nomesayin’?
    One word for y’all – EPIC FAIL!

    Like


  559. @ Garlin

    Since your claims are backed by scientific data then where are the links? See I am not one on taking peoples words for it…Secondly blacks come in different skin tones. Hate to break it to you but stupidity kills. Now correct my if I am wrong but the shapes of tv models are not real ideas of actual white women. White women today are very shapely, whether it be cosmetic or real. This is not very few as you claim (maybe in your mind anyway).

    I am sure you want to convince yourself you are superior based on nothing more than you skin color but it is that lax thinking that has lead to many races to surpass you and you not even realize it.

    Like


  560. That’s two words

    Like


  561. @ Garlin

    Actually no. I never had a weave in my life or extensions like most white women do these days. I love it curly so I stay ways from relaxers and such. I did just get my hair cut though and the beautician did not want to because she thought it was so beautiful. It will grow back in a couple of months so to me it is not big deal.

    Have you seen all black women’s feet? Black women are so diverse that it is not even funny, but live on the stereotypes and ignorance if you choose.

    If only you were actually shutting me down though. Jumping the gun I see. Losers always do.

    I have a college educations so I will greatly appreciate it if you spoke English. I am not skilled in the art of Ebonics.

    Like


  562. correction stay away…it is not a big deal

    Like


  563. @ Y.

    I gather that he may be a bit slow from some of his posts.

    Like


  564. @Garlin

    White women in America hate themselves than black women, and here are some facts to support this claim:

    1. 1 in 3 white women use tanning beds, almost half in the midwest (and yes, there are millions of light brown or tan black women), according to CDC statistics, and a majority of them tan outdoors to mask their pale, uneven skin tone. As a result of trying to change their skin, they contract skin cancer at a much higher rate than anyone else on earth.

    2. White women pump their lips with collagen at a much higher rate than others. When a white lady gets some money, she goes for the full sexy lips that many black women have naturally.

    3. Butt injections are on the rise, especially cheap, illegal ones, and as you know, the rate among white women is much higher.

    4. In general, white women undergo plastic surgery more often than others, and represent an disproportionately high share of plastic surgery patients.

    5. Surveys show that even overweight black women like their bodies more than white women.

    6. As you know, white women are much more likely to have eating disorders (for explanation, refer to #5)

    7. White women are less likely to have self-confidence than black women, according to surveys.

    8. Surveys show that black women are 3 times more likely to rate themselves as attractive than white women.

    9. White women are more likely to be childless, according to the US Census. And who could blame them? When you hate yourself, you don’t want to produce people
    who look like you.

    10. Last, but not least, white women commit suicide at 6 times the rate of black women in America

    P.S. Geneticists say you share 1% to 4% of your genes with subhuman
    Neanderthals, but you share 99% of your genes with Africans. That doesn’t make you closer to those subhumans, genius.
    I hate to break it to you, but your ancestors came from Africa too and migrated to Europe before the ice age, and that’s just
    the accepted theory in western academia, not just my own opinion.

    Like


  565. @Sharina
    Why do you lie? It is impossible that you can be of the Negro race with naturally straight hair. Intellectual conversation requires honesty and knowledge which you lack. Give it up already. You know you’re sad.

    Like


  566. LOL @ Y

    He said he was going away..but came back.
    He hates black women…but writes lengthy posts on them and comes back obsessively to check the responses.
    He has a creepy foot fetish where he watches the feet of Black women…yet if he truly hated them, he wouldn’t pay such minute attention.

    Is it any surprise he can’t tell the difference between the numbers “1” and “2”? This is TOO good!

    Like


  567. for resw77,
    Where did you find the drivel? In an Afrocentrist handbook. This is garbage and highly fallatious. Plastic surgery has been practiced by all races, even Halle Barry who happens to be only half-Black.
    In regards to DNA, you are nothing like me and you are in no way related to me or anything like the other races. I’m assuming you are Black. I am proud of my neanderthal and Cro-Magnon lineage. They were an intelligent people. They were just not as refined as modern Homo-Sapiens.

    Like


  568. Sharina;
    Before i go, learn to spell, develop a cogent argument and use proper syntax.

    So sad. Boo Hooo.

    Like


  569. @ Garlin

    Where did I say my hair was naturally straight? I said my hair was naturally curly.

    “Before i go, learn to spell, develop a cogent argument and use proper syntax.”–Considering you understood it then it must be good enough. So you lose an argument and then run away. Not that I can say it was much of an argument though. You lose before you began.

    Like


  570. excuse me …You lost before you began. LOL

    Like


  571. Oh good! Garin you’ve returned! Imagine how we missed you for the half hour that you were gone. Now we can be friends.

    Say there friend… you spelled “fallatious” wrong. It’s spelled “fallacious.” The way you can remember this is that the word is based on the root word “fallacy” (like most of your posts) The way you spelled it the root word would be “fallatio.”

    Like


  572. I think he might have even meant to spell it “phallusy”! lol This guy is just TOO entertaining and easy.

    Like


  573. @Garlin

    I gave some sources, e.g., CDC, US Census Bureau….as to the polls, Washington Post, USAToday, etc…do some research for yourself, instead of mouthing off about stuff you don’t know.

    LOL, Neanderthals were so intelligent that they died off. BTW, more recent studies (like the one conducted by the Univ. of Cambridge) suggest that you don’t actually have direct subhuman ancestry at all (so sorry!), but that the subhumans and Humans merely have common ancestry (which explains why SOME non-Africans share a tiny portion of their genes with these subhumans).

    “In regards to DNA, you are nothing like me and you are in no way related to me or anything like the other races. I’m assuming you are Black. I am proud of my neanderthal and Cro-Magnon lineage. ”

    Trust me, I wish I weren’t related to such scum, but unlike you, I tend to trust scientific evidence. And it’s rather clear why you hate black women so much. You’re in denial of your ancient African ancestry. Deny all you will, but the sooner you come to grips with reality, the better off psychologically you will be…

    Like


  574. Notice the typo – Fallatious, HeeHee. You don’t miss much do ya??
    If Black females are so attractive and you claim that they are more attractive than White women why is it that every year in the USA, 35,000 – 40,000 White women are raped by a Black male, while 0-10 Black females are raped by a person of another race? In order to rape you need to be sexually stimulated and attracted to that person. These numbers do not work in favor of your argument.
    Also, why is it that every time a Black male celebrity earns a huge profit he tries to marry or date a White woman?
    In regards to hair, do you ever see an Asian, Caucasian or Amerindian trying to change their hair into a kinky afro? Do you ever hear about the other races going to the cosmetic surgeoun and requesting a wide potato nose?

    Give it up.

    Like


  575. @ Garlin

    Wrong. Rapist rape for a variety of reasons. Some to get their jollies off, some as a form of punishment to women, some do it for power and control etc. Do research.

    “Also, why is it that every time a Black male celebrity earns a huge profit he tries to marry or date a White woman?”–Two words…Denzel Washington.

    “In regards to hair, do you ever see an Asian, Caucasian or Amerindian trying to change their hair into a kinky afro?”—Actually yes, but the new thing is dreads, so I have not seen the kinky afro in a while now.

    Like


  576. I am proud of my neanderthal and Cro-Magnon lineage. They were an intelligent people. They were just not as refined as modern Homo-Sapiens.

    Which explains why they went extinct, making way for the rise of modern humans…the most expansive primate species Earth has seen.

    Like


  577. Sharina:
    get their jollies off? That means sexual stimulation, which thus proves they desire the flesh of other women from other races. Touche!!!
    Denzel Washington? Is that all you can come up with??? Bwahahaha!
    I’d like to add Kanye West, P. Doody or whatever, Lamar Odom, Eddie Murphy and a few dozen others.

    Like


  578. Yeah, white men never raped black women…yet somehow there are millions of mulattos all around the world…b/c by their own admission, white men have raped black women for centuries.

    And that was kind of you to go through the trouble of pulling that rape statistic out of your ass, but for real stats, I’ll simply refer you to Abagond’s post on black rape statistics.

    Yes, white women for centuries permed their hair with curls (or wore “big wigs”) and while afros were in-style in the US, white women resorted to “big hair”. Now the latest trend involves white women sadly attempting to dread their hair (LOL). I know you love straight hair, but really it’s no different than animal hair, which is why horse hair makes an excellent substitute for the real thing.

    Like


  579. Black women..ugly?? Please! Black women are the most beautiful women on the planet. Beautiful hair,glowing melaninated skin and amazing bodies! Without them life would be meaningless. Discussion is over!lol

    Like


  580. I’d rather have a horse’s mane on my head than a nappy fro.

    Like


  581. Oh you don’t care about hair, you’re into FEET!

    Like


  582. @Garlin

    Good, however, we don’t care about you.

    Like


  583. If woolly hair and skin the color of burnished bronze were good enough for Jesus..it’s more than good enough for me. :) Keep trying to make us feel bad about ourselves. You may be that millionth monkey in a room full of type writers and hit on something truly inspiring and novel.

    Like


  584. @ Garlin

    “That means sexual stimulation, which thus proves they desire the flesh of other women from other races” Again No. A person can have sex with someone and not be sexually attracted to them. Getting ones jollies off equates to busting a nut. You can bust a nut with anything. Some bust a nut with horses, sheep, etc. That does not mean they are attracted to them, but they have found a hole that is warm and they can stick their penis it.

    Kanye West just started dating a white woman. He did not get rich and date one. Same goes for P. diddy who dates white and black women. The mother of his children is black. Lamar Odom who is rumored to be getting a divorce from the said white woman. Eddie murphy is another who dates mixed woman mainly but has recently dated a white woman. Now the woman Eddie is with is rumored to chase rich black men.

    Like


  585. LOL, thank you for this entertainment. Too funny, Garlin. We are beautiful, phenomenal women-Maya Angelou already wrote the memo on that one. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ZM_cPlgFq4&feature=youtube_gdata_player

    Like


  586. @Sharina

    “Some bust a nut with horses, sheep, etc.”

    Not some, but Garlin and his European brethren who frequent the growing number of barnyard brothels in Europe….it’s a cultural thing.

    Garlin, wouldn’t you rather get off with a horse than with a black woman?

    Like


  587. “Their feet are especially unattractive where the skin is ashy. The feet are also flat and the heels protrude. They also have potato chip toenails. The second toe is almost always longer than the big toe.”

    Can you imagine how long you have to stare at somebody’s feet before you come up with that analysis? He has an entire collection of internet pictures that he peruses on a nightly basis… with his various assortments of oils and lubricating gels in hand.

    Like


  588. @ Lifelearner

    Thank you for sharing that. Black women are beautiful and we need not forget that. I try my best to stay away from anything that seeks to tell the black female she is not beautiful. WOC have been told they are not for years to keep up the idea that white women are the ultimate beauties. They are not and we need to feel they are.

    Like


  589. @ resw77

    LMAO!!! Well he said he would rather have horses hair on his head.

    Like


  590. @ King

    LOL.

    Like


  591. @ Sharina

    The “ugly Black woman” stereotype is a dying idea, in my estimation. When debating with non-intellects like Garin the Cro-Magnon here, you’re just dealing with the dying embers in the creaking wreck of the old guard American Apartheid System. I mean look at him, he can’t even spell.

    Like


  592. He is more deserving of out pity than our wrath.

    Like


  593. I Forgot to retort to a couple of scientifically ignorant posts in response to my original assessment.

    I thought you were finished. Not only are you a liar, you are also filled with rancid fecal matter.

    I didn’t mention that Black females emit a very disagreeable body odor. I also didn’t mention the Black specific maladies such as scabies. But since I am ostensibly superior in looks and intellect to everyone here I will respond to another issue.

    Why thank you for your kind consideration dear. Please enlighten us with your superior intellect.

    his concludes that we are so genetically removed that I am more related to a neanderthal that lived 180,000 years ago than a modern day Black

    http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQOEroIhm41iNfrCmLLdrYrjrFYsstte-Jxsb7jJqm1il1X1w-f

    Yes quite a potato shaped nose on that one I’d say.

    I don’t resort to ad hominem barbs that are a reflection of the inferiority complexes you have revealed.

    Your whole post is an ad hominess attack! Besides, ad hominess can be hilarious and fun when employed strategically. You don’t debate fools you mock them. Sir, you give Alfred E Neumann a run for his money.

    He’s back! He hates Black women so much…yet he keeps coming back.

    He’s like that Timex watch slogan; ‘Takes a licking and keeps on ticking’.

    You don’t miss much do ya??

    Nope, hence the mockery sent your way by the folks responding to your posts. You have managed to use quite a few stock and phrase racist arguments used by the garden variety racist. There is nothing new under the sun, and that goes tenfold for you. Come up with better jokes and insults!

    Garlin, wouldn’t you rather get off with a horse than with a black woman?

    You forgot to throw his female relatives in that mix!

    Garfield here’s a picture of beautiful white feet to tittilate you:

    Like


  594. Would i rather get off on a horse?? Well, a horse is a beautiful animal and I have ridden them many times. Oh wait, did you mean fornicate? Only a Black would contemplate such an act. There was an incident two years ago where a Black guy broke into a barn and raped two horses. Another Black guy raped a group of pigs in a farm. You can look it up. They were both indicted for violating Animal Husbandry laws or something like that. I feel sorry for the horses and pigs. What a disgusting way to be violated. I mean if Blacks are so attracted to horses, pigs and dogs wouldn’t that mean those animals are more appealing to the Black guy than the Black female? I can’t say that I blame them in that sense though.
    My spelling is impeccable regardless of that typo. LOL.

    You guys are so sad, but I really enjoyed listening to all of your bravado and bloviated self-esteem.

    Like


  595. @Garlin
    The more you try to sound like a wealthy James Bond villain, the more you convince everyone that you’re a moron.

    What is with racist nimrods and trying to pretend they have some imaginary scientific backing?

    Like


  596. Black guy rapes pigs and gives them vaginal disease. Here’s the link:

    He finds the pig prettier than Black females! LOL.

    http://www.truecrimereport.com/2011/01/andrew_lee_nash_raped_neighb

    Like


  597. White guy caught raping neighbor’s dog. Here’s the link:

    http://graneyandthepig.wordpress.com/2010/01/26/man-caught-raping-neighbors-dog/

    He finds that dogs are prettier than White females! LOL

    Like


  598. @ Garlin

    No porn, Mock Ebonics or racial slurs please.

    https://abagond.wordpress.com/comment-policy/

    Like


  599. ^ A further nod to Garlin’s vaunted intellect.

    Like


  600. Let’s play fair here with the token White guy. Y’all are being racist toward me. I didn’t paste pornography. I simply pasted links to crime editorials. Can’t handle the truth huh? Okay. Have it your way. I never made a racial slur. Mock ebonics? That’s a strict rule. I can see equality is not practiced here. I did a good job of defending myself in the faace of wanton adversity. I can see my posts were also purged. Good for you. Way to play fair.

    Like


  601. @ Garlin

    Find some other blog to drag through your little gutter world.

    Like


  602. @Garlin
    First off, you are not the token white guy. There are a few regulars here who are white, myself included. So stop trying to play the white victims card.

    Second, everyone is being perfectly fair. You’re the one who is acting like a whiny child because no one buys into your idiotic garbage. Though I, for one, can’t understand why you think they would, because all you’re doing is insulting everyone and then demanding they agree with you, then acting like you have some knowledge no one else here does and that you’re somehow smarter than everyone else because of it. Truth is, sweetie, is that you’re a moron, you’re just one who found a dictionary one day and thinks that makes him a college professor.

    And one last thing, shut up about your rape statistics that you pulled out of your ass. It’s clear that you’re trying to make yourself an expert on a subject you have no knowledge on, and no one but you seems to be fooled by the ruse.

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  603. Thank you, Haruka Tenou. It’s pretty bleak out there and Black women are left with the crumbs to marry, yet our desperation shouldn’t make it so easy for any man to have us. As Guatama Buddha said: “It’s better to walk alone than in the company of a fool.”

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  604. I was wondering why this thread was still, in a sense, active. Now, I know.

    Garlin,

    First off, what does the links or “black rape” have to do with the topic?

    Second, why are you treating you OPINIONS on black women as some objective truth?

    Third, why are you even here?

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  605. All I’m seeing from Garlin are a bunch of broken record comments. I believe him when he said his lineage is that of the cro-magnon and neanderthals. Look at his responses and you can tell that he is the missing link that evolution ignored.

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  606. @Garlin

    “Well, a horse is a beautiful animal and I have ridden them many times. ”

    I thought so…LOL

    I rest my case.

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  607. @ Garlin

    Bestiality is perfectly legal in Denmark, for instance, and there are actual barnyard brothels where you can go to “ride” that “beautiful animal” you love so much…and it’s legal in Alaska, Florida, Colorado, Arizona, etc.

    The sad truth is that whites have been depicting themselves making love with animals for centuries (and there’s ample proof), showing a continuous culture of bestiality. And it is a growing practice among white men and women today.

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  608. @ everyone…why must they come here to get diarrhea of the mouth. I mean really I’m not even reading Garlin’s garbage anymore, just enjoying the witty comebacks from my fellow Abagonites ;-)

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  609. @ Garlin

    “I didn’t paste pornography. I simply pasted links to crime editorials.”—I asked you for links and you did not post any, but ignored it as quickly as any individual who does not have proof. You posted one link about one black guy and animals. I can provide a whole website or pornographic line dedicated to bestiality. Among countless reports of women sleeping with their dogs. So by your own standards white women prefer dogs over white men and white men prefer farm animals over white women. It is a common act among whites and too common to be considered just a instance.

    I am sure you are hoping that if you bring up this constant filth that it will make it true. Wish as you might it won’t. Black women will still be beautiful. You will still be in denial, and life will go on.

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  610. @ King

    On some level I could pity him, but for the most part I do not. He wants to be stuck in his ignorant frame of mind. He needs the hard kick of reality.

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  611. Somehow, i feel that this is relevant to the post at hand: This is taken from another site diaryofatiredblackman….

    “A Few Words From A Tired White Woman – Don’t Get Mad…

    Almost scared to show it to you, but here it is….

    I’m white and have usually dated black men. I don’t purposely seek it out, but they seem to like me. Anyway, my boyfriend and I are moving toward marriage and have been together for more than a year. Believe me, if I was his second fiddle for a second I’d be out the door. This movie will bring to the forefront some issues that black women (yes, including some of my friends) need to deal with. But it will probably also inadvertently give them yet another excuse to shun every interracial couple that walks by. (“He’s with her cause he can’t HANDLE me, not cause he wants her.”) Another misconception…

    But keep on sayin that. And keep on livin out your lives alone. Cause when you get down to it, that’s really what it is. But it’s easier to blame black men and white women. For every problem you encounter, look in the mirror FIRST–not last. What’s the verse? Before removing the splinter from your brother’s eye, first remove the plank from your own.

    My man is exactly the type that MOST black women would call weak. He works hard, goes to school, and respects others. Yeah, they say that’s what they want. But actions speak louder than words. The truth is this girls: I APPRECIATE a good thing. Learn to do that instead of runnin away for a “real nigga” (whatever the fuck that means). There ARE good black men out there. But most of you prove time and time again that that’s NOT what you really want.

    Actions ALWAYS speak louder than words. So keep runnin the mouth about how bad “your men” treat you, and then run off to sleep with men you barely know. And don’t forget to act surprised when you’re left out in the cold. That’s the real sympathy inducer.

    Sorry if this was extremely harsh, and I know it was. But that’s how I honestly feel. One of my best friends for more than five years was a black woman–my age (24). Eventually, I had to cut that off. She was just way too hostile and downright cruel sometimes. I gave her a lot of passes, but the the camel’s back broke when she just REFUSED to be happy for me. Time and time again she just had to try to rain on my parade. I’m glad I didn’t let her though, cause the man I’m with now is the best I’ve ever had.

    Thanks for listening. The truth hurts, but I truly hope that black women will begin to regain their self-respect. If you don’t respect yourself, no one else will. And that doesn’t just mean yelling at everyone who pisses you off. It’s so much deeper than that. Love, healing, and peace.”

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  612. @Garlin, every race has features that are oogey to other races. Blacks and Asians are repulsed by body hair and ill-kept complexions of Northern European Caucasians. Eat more veggies you guys. Put down that slab of cow and give your body some raw spinach. Spinach does wonders for the complexion. Dark green leafy veggies are consumed by health advocates in American Northern Europeans (long term isn’t it? North Sea, Mid Atlantic, Northern Slavic..anyhoo), but just about everyone else of the American Northern European decent recoils at the sight of a dark green, leafy veggie on their plate. That veggie can save White women a fortune in gimmicky wrinkle creams and face lifts. As for White men, the same, however, most of you just don’t seem to care. Feed your skin!
    Hirsuteness…well, love your fellow man warts and all :) Just know that your race isn’t perfect either, Whites just rule the world at the moment, but Western hegemony shall wane. Go China!

    -SS

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  613. @ Sharina

    I deleted one of Garlin’s links because it was a video about bestiality.

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  614. Agabond, please shut this post down before someone hurts hisself/herself while trying to pull random “facts” out of their butt in an attempt to hurt the feelings of BW.

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  615. black women only became the ugliest women once white men and men in general were no longer able to rape us at will just like someone else said on here

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  616. my last post on this, just want to answer Garlin’s dumb comment:

    Garlin, my wife has some of the most perfect arches ive seen on a woman’s feet…all you are doing is putting your nasty large a@@ stanky toe jam funky toenail foot in your big mouth…

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  617. Y. said
    “….
    The people I find unattractive I just don’t interact with or discuss in romantic contexts. I don’t even know all the reasons why they are unattractive to me and I don’t care to dissect them. All I know is their physical appearance is unappealing to me and that the beginning and the end of it all.

    …..”

    Exactly! What’s the point in itemizing what one doesn’t find attractive (an arm’s length write up on a public forum even), right down to toe length, the fuq? That’s some deranged sh!t. After the first five lines I damn near fell out of my chair, oh the hilarity! The whole thing read like a creepy BBC documentary.

    Oh yeah, Y, hovering over your pic does enlarge it, it’s a pretty pic so no worries!
    ———————-

    Have a great Christmas everybody and I hope to unwrap some lotion for my oh so ashy, crocodile feet <3!

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  618. @ Abagond

    Ok. I asked him about links in regards to some statistics he mentioned earlier and he did not deliver on those. He can keep the links to the sick porn stuff.

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  619. @ phoebeprunelle

    Let me first say that I am not against interracial couples. If they love each other then so be it. I will quote something my aunt said to me. To some black men white women are like a bmw. It is used to show class or status in society.

    I personally don’t agree with what she said because I have seen intelligent black females seek intelligent black men. In most cases they do end up with an intelligent black man. Chemistry is everything and if it is not there race will never matter. I feel that poster wants to believe they have an issue with her dating as an interracial couple while ignoring that people may have other issues with them dating. I see it all to often where white women get on blogs fully believing that black women are in a big uproar over white women dating black men and it is not always the case.

    I was told once that this black guy dating this white girl had convinced her that he would not date black women because they were loud, ghetto, ugly, fat etc. She believed this and found out later that he cheated on her with a black woman. I have also heard tales of white men doing the same.

    If they are happy then it is great, but I see her as one who will blame anything on black women instead of on the black friend that is unhappy for her.

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  620. @ Sharina

    Right, like we are going to get all indignant with them(WW). It doesn’t make me any difference. Love is love. And if you want to go down that interracial path then one enters at their own risk. For me, I just couldn’t see myself with anyone but a strong, intelligent Black man. And I got what I ask for in spades! (pun intended :-))

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  621. @ Anne

    I think Garlin needs this post to be knocked into reality.

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  622. @ Lifelearner

    But is goes back to stereotypical portrayal of the black woman. Not only are we seen as ugly but we are loud and against black men dating white women. Not to mention uneducated with several baby daddies. I have never seen a black female act crazy over a black man and white woman. I have seen it in movies though. Tv is destructive to the beautiful black woman, especially when we live in a society where kids are now being raised by the tv.

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  623. I will take part of that back because tv has become better at portraying black women.

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  624. @Sharina,

    It was actually the Black men on that particular forum cosigning her and saying that Black women need to take note.

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  625. @phoebeprunelle

    Wow. That is sad, but i still disagree and i will elaborate when i am at my computer. I have words for those type of black men.

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  626. @ Phoebeprunelle

    I could call those men many things but I would first like to start with this.

    1. Those are more likely black men who are not interested in black women but are looking for excuses not to be. The white women they are with usually play into this racists idea of the black woman. Making them feel like life is peachy because they have the white woman.

    2. They are made and will play onto anything bad that is said about black women to justify their anger.

    3. Those type of black men believe that because they have x, then that automatically makes them a catch. They ignore the fact that their personality stinks, their attitude stinks, etc. They believe that it can’t be me but it must be them.

    I checked out what I think is the site and it has some sad stereotypes about black women. Sadder is that is it coming from supposed black men, but I have to wonder about that. Mainly because white men love to pretend to be black online to try and prove some type of point.