White men with black women are not as common in America as you might expect. Even though an eighth of American women are black, fewer than one married white man in 400 has a black wife! That cannot be an accident. Compare that to how many have Asian wives: about one in 100 – even though there are way fewer Asian women.
Given the numbers of white, black and Asian women there are in America and looking at who white men marry, you can work out how much they like different kinds of women as wives:
- 132: white women
- 100: American women in general
- 23: Asian women
- 2: black women
So why do so few white men marry black women?
Here are some reasons that you hear:
- Lack of opportunity: Most white men live in a nearly all-white world. Most know only a few black women.
- Lack of education in black women: White men look for women with the same level of education. That limits the number of black women they might date and marry even further.
- Lack of good looks in black women: Most white men think black women are not all that good looking when compared to white women. That comes across in their phrase “good-looking for a black girl”. And you see it in their lists of beautiful women on the Internet: they have few if any black women and those they do have tend to be light-skinned. An amazing-looking black woman can walk right by a white man without him batting an eye.
- Lack of friendliness of black women: White men tend to see black women as being hard to get along with – the Sapphire stereotype. It is just not worth the trouble.
- Lack of acceptance among white friends and family: White men are afraid of what their friends or family will say. Whites are less accepting of mixed relationships, especially mixed marriages, than blacks are.
- Lack of desire among black women: Among Americans, black women are the least likely to marry outside their race.
That last one is dead wrong. Look at the percentage of married Americans in 2006 who were married outside their race:
- 19.5 Asian women
- 8.4 black men
- 7.2 Asian men
- 3.6 black women
- 2.2 white men
- 1.9 white women
It is white people who stick most to their own kind, not black women – or even Asian men.
The other reasons have some truth to them, but notice how they never seem to blame white men.
They all avoid the simplest reason of all, the one that you hardly ever hear:
- White men are racist: They do not want their sons and daughters to be black. Not because their parents are against it, not because their friends are against it, not because white society is against it – because they themselves are against it!
As white people put it, “What about the children?” As if it was some terrible thing to be black! Well, to a white racist it is.
See also:
- Part II – an update of my views, which I wrote nine months and 300 comments later.
- Black women that white men like
- race and beauty
- The most beautiful black women according to white people
- colour-blind racism
- The Sapphire stereotype
- Race in America
- black women
- Why so few black men marry black women
“That cannot be an accident. Compare that to how many have Asian wives: about one in 100 – even though there are way fewer Asian women.”
LOL, even American Indian women have far more chance of marrying a White man than a Black woman. I read the statistics in the book, Demography. When going outside of the race to marry, White American men tend to get:
Latinas
Asian/Pacific Island Women
American Indian Women
The book doesn’t mention Black women at all.
Stephanie
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Pathetic.
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Pathetic.
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Abagond,
I agree. These facts are real no matter how racists such as Steve Sailer would spin it. He knows deep down that he has racist feelings and views towards Blacks, esp. Black women. As a matter of fact, his well-known essay, Is Love Colorblind?, is full of racist/sexist biases, biases that he have of Blacks all his life.
Many whites today would say that they’re for IRs but their actions and private views said otherwise. They only say this publicly for appearances sake, but when they see just one Black family moving in, they put up the for sale sign, remove their children out of schools, etc.
Like you said in your post, it’s just pathetic of how Americans treat Black women.
Stephanie
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What about black men NOT marrying black women? In general, black women are the least likely to get married in America. I think this is a far more pressing problem. I wrote a blog on this since Tyra Banks had a show about it in Feb.
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I dunno, I think some White men are just genuinely nervous about approaching Black women. Like, they don’t know how to do it, and are scared to put themselves out there.
But, in general, I’ve found that White men are quite interested in Black women. Hell, I’ve dated tons of White men. And they always open with “I’ve always had these crushes on Black women…”
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This is a topic that I’ve pondered quite a bit. As mentioned previously, I am a WM married to a BW for 13 years. I have a fair number of WM/BF couples as friends. I do perceive that this is a growing phenomenon, perhaps one of the most rapidly growing of IR pairings (more on this below).
I can confirm that among my WM acquaintances, many have never even considered the idea of dating a BW. It’s not that they’ve thought about it and rejected it. It’s that the idea has never crossed their minds at all. Like Agabond said, a drop-dead beautiful BW could walk past them and they wouldn’t see anything. Certainly there are elements of racism in this. Americans are programmed by our mass media, in a Skinnerian manner, to a standard of beauty that excludes BW for the most part (though this is changing — more below).
However, American has a stark black/white separation that transcends racism. This separation is perpetrated by both blacks and whites. Go to the commons lunch area of any major university and see for yourself. I was at UCLA recently on vacation and saw it – tables of white people and tables of black people. No mixing. And you won’t see black people making an effort to join a white group any more than vice versa.
As readers of this blog know, I blame American PC liberal culture for this. It has quashed honest discourse about race and replaced it with an uncomfortable silence in which any mention of race is taboo. Hence separation.
There are other barriers to WM/BW relationships as well:
BW are suspicious of the motive of WM who step to them. This is legitimate to some extent. There are WM who desire BW solely as an exotic sexual conquest. Even if the WM’s intentions are sincere, BW worry about the potential that the WM harbors latent racist sentiments that could surface in times of stress or anger. By the way, for the record, I have never once called my wife, or any black girlfriend, the “n” word, in anger or otherwise, and this is consistently true among every other WM/BW couple that I know.
WM perceive that BW generally won’t date them. This is also grounded in reality. Historically, BW would not date WM out of a sense of principal, a feeling that doing so would be a betrayal to their race. This sense persisted among BW even as many BM openly dated WW. This is supported by the statistics. Agabond’s statistics, even if true (I’ve seen statistics that contradict those cited by Agabond), fail to account for the actual numbers involved. 1.9% of all WW represents a huge number compared to 3.6% of BW. As a WM who, prior to being married in 1995, dated primarily BW since about 1982, I can attest to the difficulty experience by WM in meeting BW willing to date a white guy. It’s already hard for a guy to meet compatible women who are interested in dating them. The guy must first be attracted to the woman, then figure out whether she is attracted to him, then figure out a way to meet her and ask her out without seeming desperate or obsessed or anything like that. Etc. Add to that mix the uncertainly of whether the woman would even consider dating a white guy and many guys won’t go there.
Familial and friend disapproval.
The “What about the kids?” syndrome.
Educational and/or socio-economic disparities.
That said, I do perceive that WM/BW pairings are on the rise, and that this will continue to accelerate in the future. In fact, I think it will eventually become the most common IR pairing in the US. Why? Several reasons. First, as I mentioned in another post, increasing minority enrollment at colleges in the past decade have been mostly female. White boys at college are going to class with fine sisters, finding them to be charming and intelligent and fun, and dating them. Proximity breeds familiarity, leading to attraction and coupling.
Second, the predominance of WM/BW couples in society at large, and in mainstream media (TV couples like Toni Childs and her Jewish husband on Girlfriends, celebrities like Bobby DeNiro, movies like “Something New” or “Guess Who,” etc.), plants the seed of possibility in people’s minds. A corollary to this is the fact that Americans are becoming hip to the idea that mixed kids are extra attractive. The “tragic mulatto” storyline is being replaced with the “super-attractive mixie” ethic. A related corollary is that white parents are not stigmatized by the idea of their white sons marrying black women and fathering mixed grandchildren.
Third, BW themselves have become increasingly open, in the past two decades, to the idea of dating a WM. Blanc2 can personally attest to this. The guardedness and suspicion that WM once encountered when trying to step to a sister are nowadays much less likely to be present. In about 1983, I enjoyed a fun date with a lovely BW who kissed me goodnight and was almost instantly wracked with racial guilt. “That’s not right. I’m sorry, I just can’t do this…” she stammered. It’s much less likely that something like that would occur today. A corollary to this is the “48%” (the statistic relating to the number of BW who are not married) phenomenon widely discussed in connection with the release of “Something New.” BW are growing tired of waiting for BM to marry them when there are eligible WM willing to do so.
Finally, and what I think is the most important reason, BW are fine. Doesn’t take a rocket scientist to figure this out. WW spend fortunes going to tanning salons, getting lip implants and butt implants, and getting their hair curled at the salon. BW have naturally tan skin, naturally full lips and butts, and naturally curly hair. In other words, BW possess naturally the precise beauty attributes that WW pay to obtain. WW pay to obtain these attributes because society at large views them as attractive. I’m seeing it all around me – WM looking like a light bulb has just gone off in their previously somnolent brains: “Wow, I never thought about it before, but there are a lot of fine sisters out there.”
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Steph: I agree with you.
indigoblu: that is an excellent post idea, but much harder to write than this one: “Why so few black men marry black women”. I will write it sometime in late July when I will have more time than now.
RyanB: I am not talking about white men dating or liking black women – I am talking about marrying them! That is where the rubber hits the road. The 1 in 400 is a very very dismal number. I know your father is one of them.
Blanc2: Still reading… 😉
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I need to correct the post, but the numbers I gave were % of married Americans, not all Americans. That might be why you have seen different numbers.
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Blanc2: Question: is that how white men approach great-looking white women too – waiting for some sign of interest back from them? Or do they just go for broke and not care about any preliminary interest?
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Blanc2: Interesting observations about black women interest in white men across the years.
Good point about it never having crossed many white men’s minds to date a black woman. It never crossed my mind that it never crossed their minds! It is not like they live in some faraway land.
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Abagond –
Perhaps the stat is correct… but thinking about marriage and my own family –
My aunt is married to a white man.
My cousin is engaged to a white man.
My mom was married a white men, then divorced him and had me (with another white man)
I see tons of interracial couples – but perhaps they’re just more prevalent in urban areas.
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Re: Awaiting signals/going for broke: it obviously depends on personal style and context — for me, when single, if meeting in a club or on the street I might have been inclined to “go for broke,” but if meeting within my established social network or at work I would certainly have awaited some signal of interest.
Re: Never crossing the mind: As you yourself have repeatedly noted, our nation is still quite segregated. Many, perhaps most, whites live in a very white world and never even consider issues of race. They live in white suburbs, attend white schools, work in white workplaces, watch white TV shows and movies, and generally only “see” other white people.
As to Ryan’s point, I see the same thing in my wife’s extended family and social network (most of whom are in Los Angeles): sister married to a WM, father’s second marriage was to a WW, cousins married to white people, college friends IR married, etc. Ryan, I like your blog, by the way.
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Blanc2
I think you are as guilty as stereotyping whites as you accuse them of being as you. The working class that gets portrayed on TV is as unreal a depiction of middle america as BETs is of Black America.
I’m from L.A. and live in New York now. I don’t see any of what you see. I think people are more concerned about feeding their family than if someone is black or white.
Very closed minded of you.
_Stal
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Stal: which stereotypes of whites are you talking about? It is not clear form your comment.
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So glad to hear you’re enjoying my blog, blanc2 🙂
Let me also note that I’m loving the discussions and connections that are coming out of abagond’s posts 🙂 Abagond, keep up the awesome, thought-provoking work!
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I’m talking about the Leave it to Beaver Stereotypes portrayed in that post.
I’m 3/4 Jew 1/4 italian and not white at all.
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Stal, which post? Be brutally specific because so far I am still not getting you.
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Stal, I’m also interested in the specifics. Let me remind you also that we are speaking here in broad generalizations, though the numbers (i.e. — the tiny number of WM/BW marriages) tend to bear them out.
I recognize that there are many exceptions to the generalizations described. I personally know many white people who have no issues dating/marrying black people. My family — a very white typical family from very small town Midwest — is completely at ease with an accepting/supportive of my IR marriage, and I know that I’m not alone in that regard.
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Blanc2’s personal ancidotes are valuable, sure, but they are just that “personal ancidotes”. They don’t reflect nationwide trends or attitudes. Personally, I know a lot of people who like mayonnaise. What does that mean? Does that reflect the entire countries’ taste in condiments? For all the white folks you know who are fairly comfortable with the idea of IR romance, there are many more who are NOT. Sad but true.
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I’m so glad that we’re having this thought-provoking conversation. I like to thank Abagond, Blac2, Stal, Mynameismyname, and Ryan B for their input on this less discussed issue of BW/WM relationships.
Here are several links on this issue:
http://httpjournalsaolcomjenjer6steph.blogspot.com/2006/12/white-weddings.html
http://httpjournalsaolcomjenjer6steph.blogspot.com/2006/10/subversiveness-of-bfwm-marriage.html
http://httpjournalsaolcomjenjer6steph.blogspot.com/2006/09/black-women-demand-respect.html
http://httpjournalsaolcomjenjer6steph.blogspot.com/2006/07/wheres-outrage.html
http://www.geocities.com/sailerfraud/whatyousay.html
http://www.rachelstavern.com/?p=468
http://www.rachelstavern.com/?p=457
Stephanie B.
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I agree: RyanB and Blanc2 seem to know quite a few IRs but it is not what you see nationwide – even if it is common in their circles.
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Thanks, Stephanie, for the links! I see that you and Ann have been busy!
By the way, when you post something with more than one link WordPress will think it is spam. It may take a while for me to see it in my filter and fish it out.
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Steph: I read that Sailer article too, his theory about why Asian men and black women are so undesirable! Where does this guy live? Who are his friends?
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Steve Sailer lives in Studio City California with his white wife and two sons. According to Sailerfraud, he associates mainly with white right-wing men and eugenicists. His unnatural obsession with Blacks and interracial relationships borders on mental illness.
Here’s a bio on Steve at One People’s Project:
Anyone who has done research on the internet on such topics as race, genetics, or interracial marriage may have directly or indirectly come across an infamous race researcher named Steve Sailer.
Who is Steve Sailer? He is one of a handful of extreme “scientific racists”, affiliated with and often paid by extreme right-wing groups like VDare, American Renaissance, and others. He has written numerous pseudo-scientific articles on the internet that will fit his racist agenda that any race other than his own race, the White race, is inferior. He has a racist and condescending tone toward other races.
His falsified and racist writings have permeated the internet, creating many rumors and misunderstanding which have spread through many internet forums. Many unsuspecting people who have written articles on race or interracial marriages may have used Steve as a source while researching on the internet.
Steven Ernest Sailer is a white American male born in December 20, 1958. He attended UCLA in the early 1980s and worked for several years as a businessman in Chicago after college. In the late 1990s, he and his family (white wife Carole Sailer born 02/27/1959 and two sons) moved to his birthtown, Studio City, in the Los Angeles area where he currently resides.
It is the field of journalism, not as a businessman, which propelled Steve’s publicity. Being a so-called race researcher who writes on and judges other races, and frequently condemns the non-white races as inferior and undeserving to live in America, it is only appropriate to ask, “What sort of experiences does Steve possess to research and judge other races?” He has no record of employment from the mainstream media, and he certainly has never been associated with Pulitzer winning publications or credible mainstream journalist organizations. He is not a doctor or scientist from an accredited institution in the field of race or genetics.
Possessing eloquent writing skills and a trashy attitude, Steve’s first major employment debacle in journalism was for the National Review magazine, a far right-wing media publication infamously known for it’s trashy, politically incorrect, borderline racist pieces of work. From 1994 to 1998, Steve wrote numerous inflammatory articles and excerpts on race and interracial marriages, primarily based on media stereotypes and his heinous group of extreme right-wing scientific racists (e.g. Phillipe Rushton, Sam Francis, the Pioneer Fund, Social Darwinists, etc…).
Once of his most (in)famous works for the National Review which boosted his publicity was the 1997 article on interracial marriages, “Is Love Colorblind”. In the article, he believes Asian males and Black females are so inherently inferior and unattractive by birthright, they will be at a significant disadvantage in finding relationships and will be breeded out of society. This overexaggerated article was known to create gender divides among the races. Knowing the stir initially created by this article, he wrote another article in 2003 where he flat out lied about the 2000 Census stats on interracial marriages to repeat the havoc initially created so he can profit.
In the late 1990s, Sailer made two more accomplishments in the name of scientific racism. First, he created the Human Biodiversity Group, a right-wing eugenics thinktank where people with the mindsets of Steve Sailer can discuss and promote academic racism, homophobia, xenophobia, and eugenics policies. Among the worst members of the HBD group, whom Sailer Primarily bases his scientific research upon, are Charles Murray, Vincent Sarich, Arthur Jensen, John Derbyshire, Chris Brand, Philippe Rushton, Jim Woodhill, Steve Pinker, Jon Entine, and Peter Brimelow.
Second, Steve Sailer left the National Review to join the VDare internet publication. VDare is notorious for it’s pro-fascist, anti-immigration stance and racist views to rid America of anyone who is not white. VDare’s president, Peter Brimelow, declared the 1965 Immigration Act as “Hitler’s revenge”. As a note, VDare labels itself as a non-profit organization to avoid paying taxes and to give tax breaks to its contributors, but it profits anyway to employ exclusively right-wing biased journalists and racists so they can make a living.
Sailer’s racist views and true colors became more prevalent after writing articles for VDare. Whether declaring that Latinos are no-good trash and Latino immigration must end, or that Blacks are genetically inferior in mental capability and do not deserve equal educational and economic opportunities, or that Asians are genetically inferior in physique and do not deserve opportunities in professional sports, Sailer has used VDare as his flagship to carry out his racist agenda of white supremacy and to trash on anyone who is not white like him.
Another less-than-plausible journalist achievement for Steve is joining the United Press International organization in 2001. Because writing articles under the VDare name was too conspicuous, the UPI seemed like a more neutral and acceptable logo at the time. However, a closer examination into UPI shows the same extreme right-wing bias.
The UPI, a subsidiary of the conservative Washington Times, is a 93-year-old agency which has been a financially troubled operation for the past three decades, with multiple ownership changes during the past 18 years. A major historical turning point of UPI was in 2000, when the Rev. Sun Myung Moon’s media organization, News World Communications, purchased the Washington Times and UPI to extend his media regime to the international level. The Rev. Sun Myung Moon, who heads his Unification Church, is a cultist leader and extreme right-winger from Korea. He is known for starting an obsessive cult group, whom his followers are labeled Moonies, in America during the 1970s, and has been known to spread his ultra-conservative movement centered around him on an international level since then.
As you can infer, the UPI (also nicknamed the Unification Press International) exclusively employs right-wing biased journalists, including Steve Sailer.
Before you get offended with any of his writings, please keep in mind he is only a biased freelance writer. He is not a scientist or doctor from an accredited institution in the field of genetics or race. His livelihood depends on overexaggerating, even flat out lying, to create a stir among the public so he can profit and pay off his personal bills. Unfortunately, his countless writings on the internet has created much lies and discontent, and it is time to hold him accountable.
__________________________________
Stephanie B.
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Wow, thanks! Now I got to do a post on him!
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Also, I’ve just found the article at a certain right-wing blogger’s website. His views are just as bad as David and Steve Sailer’s. Here’s the 2002 article below. I believe David copied his views on multiracial/black beauty from the rightwinger Kelley and Sailer.
_______________________________________
BLACK CHICKS: I was perusing FHM’s list of the 100 Sexiest Women in the World 2002 in search of a story—the things I do for my readers—when I noticed how white they are. According to our race-obsessed Census Bureau, over 12 percent of Americans are black, but the mostly-US readership of FHM selected only 8 black women:
#3: Halle Berry—Actress
#21: Beyoncé Knowles—Singer
#23: Tyra Banks—Model
#34: Janet Jackson—Singer
#36: Mariah Carey—Singer, Weirdo
#80: Alicia Keys—Singer
#82: Aaliyah—Singer, Corpse (alas)
#85: Samantha Mumba—Singer
Even the above list is a little misleading, because a quick visit to MixedFolks.com revealed that four of these women (Halle, Mariah, Alicia, and Samantha) are decidedly biracial, having one African and one European parent. I use the phrase decidedly biracial after having seen this article that discusses DNA testing. A study of the genetic makeup of 3,000 Americans reveals how racially mixed we really are:
Among self-identified whites in Shriver’s sample, the average black admixture is only 0.7 percent. That’s the equivalent of having among your 128 great-great-great-great-great-grandparents (who lived around two centuries ago), 127 whites and one black.
It appears that 70 percent of whites have no African ancestors. Among the 30 percent who do, the black admixture is around 2.3 percent, which would be like having about three black ancestors out of those 128.
In contrast, African-Americans are much more racially mixed than European-Americans. Yet, Shriver’s study shows that they are less European that was previously believed.
Earlier, cruder studies, done before direct genetic testing was feasible, suggested that African-Americans were 25 or even 30 percent white. Shriver’s project is not complete, but with data from 25 sites already in, he is coming up with 17-18 percent white ancestry among African-Americans. That’s the equivalent of 106 of those 128 of your ancestors from seven generations ago having been Africans and 22 Europeans.
According to Shriver, only about 10 percent of African-Americans are over 50 percent white.
Of course, another way of looking at these data is that a limited amount of black ancestry is enough to make you “look black” from the standpoint of identification. The “one drop” rule may have been ugly from a social and legal perspective, but perhaps reflected a practical reality. Getting back to our list: Does the mixing of races create an exotic look that has helped these four women? Perhaps there’s a “best of both worlds” effect that helps set these women apart.
But why the shortage of black women overall? One simple explanation would be that the readership of FHM is skewed towards white men and their standards of beauty are rooted in the familiar. But maybe it’s because black women just aren’t as pretty. Consider another piece written by the author of the DNA article above, Steve Sailer, discussing why interracial marriage shortchanges black women and Asian men. He posits some universal standards of beauty that leaves black women behind because of their physiognomy:
By emphasizing how society encourages us to marry people like ourselves, sociologists miss half the picture: by definition, heterosexual attraction thrives on differences … Opposites attract. And certain race/sex pairings seem to be more opposite than others. The force driving these skewed husband – wife proportions appears to be differences in perceived sexual attractiveness. On average, black men tend to appear slightly more and Asian men slightly less masculine than white men, while Asian women are typically seen as slightly more and black women as slightly less feminine than white women.
Sailer specifically cites height, hair length, and muscularity as disadvantages for black women—and advantages for Asian women.
The only problem with this theory in our case? The list of 100 contains only two Asian women: Lucy Liu (#19) and Zhang Ziyi (#91).
And worse:
This following post is also from the same man who wrote the article on “Black” women back in 2002 regarding interracial marriage of Black/Biracial women and White men from The Atlanta Constitution. He was wrong to portray Black/Biracial women as “golddiggers”. Here’s the post below:
WHITE GUYS & BLACK CHICKS: The taboo against black women dating white men is breaking down. The growing education gap between black men and women and the cold fact that many black men are incarcerated or murder victims are causal factors. (By using education as a surrogate for wealth, this article skirts the issue that white men are wealthier than black men. We can’t have black women looking like gold diggers, can we?) One question the article doesn’t fully confront is why white men are going after dark meat, though it acknowledges the “exotic look” factor I attributed to biracial women in a previous post. Black guys still have their fans, though. Mickey Kaus reports:
Then there is the final taboo issue—black male sexuality. Fear of black male sexuality was the psychological engine of Jim Crow, Nicholas Lemann has argued. And respect for it is the unwritten explanation for a lot of the resistance to cross-race dating (between 1960 and 1980, for example). I once asked a multi-degreed, accomplished black woman friend of mine (who dated whites) why so many other black women restricted their “options” to black men. She paused thoughtfully, stroked her chin, and said: “I guess it’s the sex.”
— ———————————————–
If this doesn’t read bigotry, then what is?
Stephanie
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y do ppl even care if wm dtae bw as a bm i think tht white people date outside of their race more than whites blacks do stick with there own more.
(Lack of desire among black women: Among Americans, black women are the least likely to marry outside their race.
That last one is dead wrong. Look at the percentage of married Americans in 2006 who were married outside their race:
19.5 Asian women
8.4 black men
7.2 Asian men
3.6 black women
2.2 white men
1.9 white women
It is white people who stick most to their own kind, not black women – or even Asian men.)
this is inaccurate because not everybody in the united states is married so how do you know that whites stick to their race more, point of view and actual #s r 2 different things. point of view wise black women r less likely to date outside their race ask most black women and they will tell you they want a black man. that does not mean they wont date other men but more than likely they want a black men.#s wise yea it looks like whites do stick to there kind but at the same time there are way more white ppl in the united states than the other minoritys. if everybody in every minority married a white person right now there would still be 100+ million whites left over so black men and women need each other now i hate how black men get a lil success and they get a white girl. i also cantg stand black women who like 2 potray strong black women in movies but dont even date black men in real life like zoe saladana and rosario dawson latinos are known for self hate especially black latinos (latinos is not a race it is a ethnicity and a bs ethnicity at tht ethnicity is where you come from and evrybody in the united states is american point black none of tht white black asian shit. same thing with asian tht is a bs ethnicity latinos and asians know where they come from if your dominican american dominican is your ethnicity not latino last time i checked there i no country called latino lol. same with asians if your japanese american japanese is your ethnicity not asian. the only ethnicity tht has the right to be grouped together is blacks because we dont know where we’re from. whites dont even have the right to b grouped together because they know there place of origin to irish american means irish is your ethnicity) sorry for the rant and not capitalizing i was feeling lazy
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its one thing to happen to be dtaing someone of a different race it is another thing to go looking for other races i feel like most bm/ww and wm/bw relationships r black people looking for other races not blacks happening to be dating someone white or whtever
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ANY man who waits for a woman to make the first move is a coward, pure and simple.
As for going to nightclubs, not all black women frequent nightclubs. Many attend live plays, movies, museum exhibits, festivals, concerts—their interests range the whole gamut of what any normal person would do.
What is wrong with saying a simple, “Hello”, to a black woman?
There are black women who have high morals, good educations, varied interests—–but, white men (and men of other races, as well) will never know these black women if these so-called “men” do not grow some balls and simply speak to the woman.
And as for the lie that many black women are unapproachable—that is all it is: a lie.
Black women are no less unapproachable than any other woman, but, if you as a black woman are ignored, treated as INVISIBLE, walked past, looked past, why should you waste your time on a race of men, or embarrass yourself, by running after a race of men who do not recognize not only your beauty, but also do not recognize your humanity?
Women DO NOT chase after men. MEN approach women, that is if they are real men. Men make the effort to get to know the woman. Many women (no matter their race) ARE NOT raised to chase after men. Many women are painfully shy and many are reserved, and that does not mean the woman is a Sapphire or unapproachable. Many women respect themselves, and many women are reserved and retiring. Any man who has a problem with all of the aforementioned is a problem himself.
As for dating.
Dating AND marriage are not the same thing. Anyone can go on a date, but, to the men reading my words, would any of you have the guts OR respect to put off asking for sex with a woman if she declined, say, 6 months after dating? Would you respect a woman who is a virgin/celibate and she wishes to remain that until she is married—-or would you drop her as if she is some bad disease if she does not jump into bed with you?
Facts have to faced. White men have been indoctrinated AGAINST black women for over 450 years.
Four hundred plus years of
-Slavery
-Viciousness of white male racism/sexism during Reconstruction
-Segregation
will do that.
Not to mention the horrific stereotypes that WHITE MEN gave black women, you know, the lies and abominations that so many white men (and many men of other races, as well) are so willing to believe.
Yes, segregated lives do preclude WM and BW from crossing paths more often, but, then again is that the fault of black women? Did black women create white supremacy? Did black women create Jim Crow? Did black women create and maintain American slavery? Did black women create wage disparity where for every $1.00 a white man earns, black women earn $0.66 out of every dollar?
Do black women benefit from when Affirmative Action WAS WHITE (the way millions of white men did)?
Do black women own and proliferate the world with racist/sexist stereotypes of black women? Do black women own Forbes magazine, Time, Newsweek, MSNBC, ABC, CBS, FOX NEWS? Do black women cram down people’s throats 450 years of lies and hate, the legacy of which IS STILL WITH THIS COUNTRY?
I believe we all know whose feet we can lay that blame at.
Many white men who worry about what their family or friends think are not men. A real man goes for what he wants out of life. The rest of the world be damned. What, wait for friends and family to come around? Be prepared most of you for waiting for forever.
Will your so-called friends take care of you if you get sick? Will your so-called friends pay your bills if you lose your job?
And what the hell about the children?
Thanks to white men and their racist/sexist hatred of black women for over 450 years, black people as a whole are not a PURE-BLOOD RACE of people. Remember, it was white men who ran black women down, dogged them, raped them, and changed black people genetically and skin color wise. So, black people are really not black people. Black Americans are A mixed-blood, hybrid race of people. We have more genetically in common with American whites than whites do with Asians.
Sorry for my harshness, but, millions of white men do not have the balls to consider black women as marriage material.
F**k-em material, yes, Wife–no.
There are many black women who are college-educated and highly intelligent. If you as a white man do not take the effort to strike up a conversation with her, how the hell will you learn anything about her? What, ESP? Vulcan-mindmelt?
And who are white men that so many of them think they are better than black women that black women should make the first move?
Do you white men demand this from white, Latina, Asian, etc., women?
Let me just take a guess and say, hell no, you do not.
No, let’s just all put everything on black women.
The whole world knows that black women have no feelings, black women are less than human, so why not give a damn about the fact that many black women simply just want to be treated as human beings.
Hell……
…….a black woman stands a better chance of being treated more respectfully in EUROPE than in the country of her birth.
And there are facts that bear that out.
Damn.
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Ann, you are so beautiful! As always. Thank you for that great comment!
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Amen, Ann, Amen! I cosign with Abagond on this one.
Steph
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dcnot420: most black women want a black man. Sure, of course. But the same can be said of white women: most want a white man. Which one sticks to their kind more? The numbers show that it is white women, not black women.
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One thing’s for sure is that when a white marries black, they’d have beautiful children like the ones in this pic. 🙂
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Abagond, the reason for that has to be thanks to the fact that there are WAY MORE white women in this country than black, so of course, they’ll stick to their own for the most part. Also, most whites in America live in their own segregated world, so that contributes that too. Plus, of course, the prejudices.
Net Al-Attas ….eh, not all kids who come from black/white marriages look good or different. Some do, on an individual basis, but most look indistinguable from other black people, who are just as mixed but not from an interracial relationship.
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You hear people say that – “mixed kids look better”. Where does that come from? It is not like it is true or something.
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Yeah, maybe ur right about that. Anyway I appreciate their exotic looks. Unique!
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Sadly, a lot of people think mixed kids look a whole lot better than monoracial kids. I don’t think they do, but ask others and they will say what Nell is saying. It is sad to me really.
I’m a black woman who has never had a desire to date non black men. I love black men. I was always told I would marry a black man when I get older, and that is what I plan to do. I have a lot of respect and love for my culture and people. I really do not care about white men and if they find me desireable. Truth be told, I don’t even think about them in that way.
I agree with everything Ann has posted. She was on point. I loved what she had to say because it is true. This makes me wonder why then do some black women waste their time wondering if white men find them attractive or not? If they do, they do. If they do not, oh well that is their problem.
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It’s all rooted in the mindset of lighter skin, “good hair” etc is more attractive. More European looking and less African. People like that are most likely “color struck” and all together have bought into the European standard of beauty mostly because it’s catholic.
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That makes sense. That would explain it.
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I live here in Michigan, and just moved from NC. Yes, there is alot of interacial couples. I’m a black women and married to a white and very good looking man. The white women here are not at all attractive, they might think they are, simply because they are caucasion. When I see a wigger type, they are always looking to see if I care if they are with the ugliest black man. I laugh at them and walk on. I’m not mix but I have a biracial child. Being mix doesn’t make your child beautiful, really it’s all in the features, just like those beautiful children above, with their beautiful and I do mean chocolate beautiful mother. Her husband isn’t too bad himself. White women here are really fat, red and uuuugggly. I say that with a smile, because I know that they are just jealous. You white or non black women are alway saying that black women are haters, because you are with a low life black man, but it’s you fat uckers that’s alway eye balling us pretty black women, almost like you want us to be angry. I’m not, it’s just that most white women are so evil and really don’t have a ucking clue. Get a life and stop staring at us, because you think your man is going to look at us, and he does when your ugly arse isn’t looking.
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OK as a black woman who has pretty much exclusively dated white men and who is currently married to a white man, I can say white men are definitely interested in black women, but don’t assume that black women are interested in them.
Black women typically are the first to hold out for a black man, than date a white man. We do this because in the black community, even though it is accepted a black men will date and marry a non black woman, because black women are fat, loud, and whatever other stereotype you can think of, for a black woman to date a white man is seen as sleeping with the enemy. White women are seen as victims of white men, so the blow of a white woman dating a black man is softer than a black woman dating a white man. Black women do hold out for black men, I have countless single, professional, college educated black women in their 30s and 40s still waiting for that good black man, and scoff at the idea of dating a white man.
Also note most miscegenation laws that were created in this country were to prevent white men from having sex with black women, not the other way around, as most people seen to believe. Blacks have been in this country since it’s inception, it was only until the Lincoln administration did it become an issue, when they thought if blacks were freed mass rape against white women would happen.
I do agree lack of opportunity to date black women hinder white men, but if education is an issue, why would black men still outnumber black women when it came to interracial relationships? Black women graduate from college at a rate of 46%, black men only graduate at a rate of 36%. Because of the numbers, black women have now in their quest to stay within their own race considered man sharing, and are expected to open their options by dating a black man who is less educated and makes less money.
In terms of good looks in black women, no matter how much the media defines beauty as white, blond, and everything that is opposite of black women, black women are still desired. There is a reason there is the southern term “splitting the dark oak”. I have never had a problem with men approaching me, their intentions might not be relationship oriented, but men of all races approach, and I am not by any means what is considered attractive by mainstream media. The “good looking for a black girl comment” mostly comes from black men. It is usually rephrased as “You’re pretty for a dark skinned girl” or “You got that good hair” .
I do agree that white men fall into the stereotypes that black women are full of attitude and less friendly, but so do black men.
In terms of acceptance of friends and family, I was way more scared of my family accepting my husband than my husband was of his family. Men I have dated in the past had no problem with me meeting their families. I’ve met many a white momma.
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BW are suspicious of the motive of WM who step to them. This is legitimate to some extent. There are WM who desire BW solely as an exotic sexual conquest. Even if the WM’s intentions are sincere, BW worry about the potential that the WM harbors latent racist sentiments that could surface in times of stress or anger. B
I definitely agree with this, even when I first started dating I always was told by my family that white men don’t want you for anything other than sex, in some instances they were right, white men would come up to me in the most vulgar way, but I had black men who did the same thing.
WM perceive that BW generally won’t date them. This is also grounded in reality.
Very true, my husband told me it is very difficult for white men because many black women aren’t open to ir.
——-
Robin are you that insecure in your marriage to your wonderful looking white man that you must berate black men and white women? Seriously was all that bashing necessary?
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(Black women do hold out for black men, I have countless single, professional, college educated black women in their 30s and 40s still waiting for that good black man, and scoff at the idea of dating a white man.)
This is defiantly true. You will hardly find an educated, professional black man who ends up marrying a educated, professional, black woman—or any black woman for that matter, so there is defiantly something else at play here because there are plenty of educated, professional black women, as you mentioned available. I personally think it has to do with the fact that she IS educated, mostly independent, and ambitious, and a lot of black men seem to be intimidated by this.
I also think that waiting, for black women, is more than likely a waste of time, especially at this point. 73% of interracial marriages are with black men. Nothing is wrong with wanting a black man but I think black women should keep their options open in finding love instead of necessarily trying to find “black” love.
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“Also note most miscegenation laws that were created in this country were to prevent white men from having sex with black women, not the other way around, as most people seen to believe.”
I agree, but, I will add more that it was the desire to keep wealth, property, and the legal name of the white father from black women and any children he fathered with her. Many laws were enacted against black people that affected black women more so than black men. Which is why the phrase, “Would you want your daughter to marry one”? has no feminine counterpart. It was expected that a black woman would be used by and abandoned by a white man, and that he would publicly disown his own mixed-blood children with a black woman.
There were laws that would protect a black female from rape ONLY if she was UNDER 9 YEARS of age; any age over that and she and her family would have no legal recourse against rape, or any pregnancy that followed.
Yes, many black women fear the advances of white men, but, what of the black women who do not?
I agree with you that nasty behaviour has been done to black women by BOTH white and black men; not to mention men of other races as well.
But, there are some black women who give not a damn what the BC says, nor do they allow the BC to demand that black women wait for their lives to end waiting on a black man.
LOOK for a MAN is what I exhort black women to do. A man who will love, honor and cherish you. Black women need to get over this bullshit of “Nothing but a black man for me”, (sorry for the profanity.) That so many black women have publicly stated this has convinced many white men/men of other races, “Well, you must not want us all that much”. And if I was a man and I heard the phrase, “A white man can do nothing for me”, well, imagine a white man saying the same thing about black women. There would be an uproar!
As for those BM who marry outside the so-called black community, many of them want to leave the burden of shouldering the BC on black women. There is nothing wrong with marrying outside of your race, just do not abandon the community that carried you on its back. Sadly, the BC community takes black women for granted. As the late, great Zora Neale Hurston said in her epic, “Their Eyes Were Watching God”: ‘Black women are the mules of the world.’
Well, I, and many black women were born into this world as baby girls, grew from girlhood to womanhood, and are human beings with all the rights to an abundant life. We are not mules, and we should never allow ourselves to told that we should take less in this world. If a MAN approaches you respectfully, DO NOT turn him away. Do not cast him aside because he is not black. The next time may be a long drought before another man gives you the time of day.
As for what I call “The Nanny Syndrome”, there are black men who would marry a poor white woman with a high school degree before they would marry a black woman with a college Ph.D.
Many black men are so sure they will always be able to go to the “Well Of Black Women” as I prefer to call it.
One day that well will run dry. . . .IF black women finally decide to LIVE and stop putting their precious lives on hold.
Wonder what would happen if black women took a day off, similar to that Douglas Ward Turner play, “A Day Of Absence”?
God help the black community if black women did decide to do such a thing.
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I wish to clarify my last comment.
The “Nothing but a black man”, comment was not meant to isult or demean the black women who desire to marry a black man. In the end one should marry whom they wish, but, facts of reality have to be faced.
I deal in pragmatism. I am realistic with what the situation and facts present to me. With the numbers against black women (2-3 black women per black man); longer life spans than black men; the chances of being single LONGER than other races of women. . . . I just want to see black women happy and as much fulfilled as they can be in this country and this world.
Black women have more than earned that right.
One more thing.
On the phrase, “Split dark oak”, that was and still is a demeaning and degrading phrase. It is no better than the other racist Southern saying: “A black woman, no matter how virginal and decent, was considered less than a white prostitute”.
All across the American South, a white man was not considered a man UNLESS he laid down with and had sex with a black womam. In some even more putrid and bizarre racist belief, it was believed that if a white man (during slavery this practice was common), if he had an STD, and if he had sex with a young black girl, that this abominable act would cure him of syphillis or gonorrhea.
Sick, yes.
But, because of the lies/myths and stereotypes so many non-black menare willing to believe against black women, and because of the fears that black women have of white men’s advances, add the mass segregation of neighborhoods——and it is understandable that both groups (WM, BM) have no much distrust, as well as fear AND loathing of each other.
Lack of contact and pernicious myths about each other further keep the divide between black women and white men as wide as the Grand Canyon.
And that goes for black women’s mistrust of men of other races, as well.
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Take a break? That should be a given, period— as a mother and as a woman….but more importantly as a human being need to take time for yourself…breath…look around you…rest….and appreciate the beautiful things in life independent of others, and only dependent on self.
What NH said is true, defiantly, but if you portray yourself as such, that is exactly what you will be indirectly or directly. Black women are some of the most hard working people in this world undoubtedly, especially in the BC; they have an incredible love and strength that has obviously withstood the test of time, and in the midst of all this, as if a never-ending cycle, many find themselves taking care of everyone..and I do mean everyone …and all of everyone else’s problems, let alone their own.
Certainly, I am not suggesting that anything is wrong with being hard working, loving, and full of courage and strength but I am suggesting that you have to know when you are being used, abused, and taken advantage of—when you simply need some “Me” time; you have to know when it’s time to give your mind, spirit, and body time to rest. If not, these things will merely build up inside and you suffer more than anyone should have to. Some attribute this to the “angry black woman syndrome”—I wouldn’t doubt if it play a sufficient role.
You have to not only want more— but demand more by going after more, and getting more because your worth exceeds every bit of it, and if you don’t know and claim your worth, it’s rash to think most people would do anything less than take advantage of a dispirited situation.
So yes..often times she seemingly goes unappreciated, but much of that goes with knowing how to appreciate yourself and standing your ground; this is a hard thing to do for many black women, especially when it comes to their black man.
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“Wonder what would happen if black women took a day off, similar to that Douglas Ward Turner play, “A Day Of Absence”?
God help the black community if black women did decide to do such a thing.”
Sorry if I was not very clear.
Unless one is familiar with the play, “Absence”, the black people took more than a day off, and the white community felt their absence detrimentally. The “Day” sretched into days, weeks, months. The white community realized how much they depended on the despised/taken for granted black people.
The same thing would happen if black women were not to show up as expected.
I agree that black women are the backbone of the black church, club/community organizations, etc. Without us, much in the BC would collapse if we stopped allowing ourselves to be used and abused.
Much of black women’s depression/obesity/diabetes/heart problems/stress is caused from the infamous “Strong Black Woman Myth”, and that hateful myth is killing us.
Hell…IT HAS killed many of us.
That so many have taken it for granted that black women will be their crutch to prop them up is what has sapped the lives from so many black women.
Yes.
Demand the best from yourself, demand the best from others.
“So yes..often times she seemingly goes unappreciated, but much of that goes with knowing how to appreciate yourself and standing your ground; this is a hard thing to do for many black women, especially when it comes to their black man.”
Time for so many black women to euthanize the “Mammy” in them.
People are going to get all pissy when you stand your ground, but, black women will realize little by little the freedom, the joy, the exhilaration of taking full control of their lives. The back men, the BC, those outside of the BC will gnash their teeth——withdrawal syptoms always happen when the drug is withdrawn cold turkey.
But, the alternative is much worse.
I cannot help but wonder where black women would be now if they had not done so much for others at their own expense.
I also wonder where so many other people would be IF black women had left many people cut and dried so often the way so many people (BM, WM, WW, etc.) have done to black women.
Talk about a messed up world.
But, we are black women, unique among all women and people.
On the other hand, we owe ourselves a life—-no matter who gets mad about it.
No one can use you unless you continue to allow it, and one life is all you get a shot at in this world.
People are going to talk, and rail against you—-whether you are standing above ground—-or stretched out 6′ under.
Nothing new under the Sun.
Just go for the gusto, Black women!
Please.
Grab life by the horns and make it give you what you so rightfully deserve.
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Robin Says:
Wed 2 Jul 2008 at 10:11:26
I live here in Michigan, and just moved from NC. Yes, there is alot of interacial couples. I’m a black women and married to a white and very good looking man. The white women here are not at all attractive, they might think they are, simply because they are caucasion. When I see a wigger type, they are always looking to see if I care if they are with the ugliest black man. I laugh at them and walk on. I’m not mix but I have a biracial child. Being mix doesn’t make your child beautiful, really it’s all in the features, just like those beautiful children above, with their beautiful and I do mean chocolate beautiful mother. Her husband isn’t too bad himself. White women here are really fat, red and uuuugggly. I say that with a smile, because I know that they are just jealous. You white or non black women are alway saying that black women are haters, because you are with a low life black man, but it’s you fat uckers that’s alway eye balling us pretty black women, almost like you want us to be angry. I’m not, it’s just that most white women are so evil and really don’t have a ucking clue. Get a life and stop staring at us, because you think your man is going to look at us, and he does when your ugly arse isn’t looking.
Wow Robin, you sure are an ignorant, self-hating racist and a narcissist. You are just as bad as a person who refuses to date or have friends outside his race. I really hope your husband doesn’t feel the same way you do or is he one of these hypocritical men with the “slavemaster mentality”?
Robin, you apparently have a very strong hatred towards non-black women and black men. Throw all the baby hissy fits all you want, but the truth is you’re SO insecure and find the need to flaunt and advertise your interracial marriage, and only condone BW/WM relationships because they’re the least common and you just happen to be in one, and at the same time, you bad mouth other people’s relationships. Just be thankful you have someone who loves you for you, not because of your skin color. (But if your husband ONLY married you because of your skin color, then he has serious issues with himself). There’s too many problems in this world to worry about who’s dating who.
As for you disrespecting white women, your statements come across being a vindictive woman with low self-esteem. You use the excuse, (and a very lame one), that white women only date ugly black men. Is it fair to assume uneducated, ugly white men date black women because they can’t find smart, pretty white women? Or vice versa? No, it’s not a fair assumption.
How about your ranting on about how beautiful you are and all the white women in Michigan are fat and ugly. I travel back and forth to Michigan 2-3 times a week from Chicago. I see ugly people and attractive people of all colors across the 3 states. My next door neighbor is an RN, and a gorgeous white woman (who is originally from Portage, Michigan) married to a very handsome, black surgeon. And her pretty sister is engaged to a hot Latin guy. Or look at Heidi Klum and Seal. So much for your outrageous theory that only ugly white women date ugly non-white men.
As for the town you live in, I assume you’re probably beautiful by default because the other women are just unkept and not fashionable. Race is irrelevant. Any person who puts effort in their looks can be attractive, regardless of color or size. I bet if you, Robin, were to go to Miami (where all races of people are gorgeous) or LA, you would either blend in, or not even be noticed at all. Beauty’s in the eye of the beholder. I personally know of so many people from the Chicago area, and (Chicago does have some good looking people), who are arrogant and think they are Adonises or Goddesses, and when they go to Miami or LA for “the Industry”, they either face very tough competition or are practically invisible.
People date or marry people for various reasons or none at all. Do you really believe the attactive black women date Robert De Niro because he’s a handsome guy (maybe during the Godfather and Raging Bull years, but now, ew!) Or the blonde bombshells that share Hugh Hefner only dig him because he’s just so muscular and fine looking.
My advice to you Robin, please see a therapist. You must have your paranoia of people staring at you and your husband taken care of immediately. It’s all in your mind. Maybe these women you accuse of staring at you and your husband are thinking, “Why the hell is that couple staring at me?” You really need to lighten up, Robin. You make a Klansman look good natured.
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People always say black women are reluctant to marry outside their race. But with education and all, I think they are loosening up and most now understand that it isnt just about ‘selling your race out’ but more about who you are compartible with, who you fall in love with and who respects you. So if it is a white man, asian man or hispanic man with these qualities, they go for it. So we expect more black women/white men unions.
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If you look at who marries who, white women are way less likely to marry outside their race than are black women.
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Black men don’t marry black women? Bullshit.
Most married black men are married to black women …the vast majority …92% at that.
(If you wanna get super technical, even the black nationalities stick to their own for the very most part: West Africans w/ West Africans; black hispanics with black hispanics; West Indians w/ West Indians, all this statistically).
Black/white marriages for the most part of relatively rare, across the board. History has a lot to do with that.
The terse, troubling history between black women and white men is one of the reasons behind that coupling’s rarity in the States. I mean, hell, no one is even ready to talk about the history between the two …so what makes anyone expect for the two to start “mingling” romantically?
Again, the statistic of white women staying to their “own” in marriage has to do with numbers. There’s way more white women in this country than black women. Way more. There’s more white women than black people period in this country so of course, the numbers would slant that way in terms of marriage.
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Although there are many black men who are married to black women, the fact still remains that, 73% of interracial marriages in America are black men with other women who are not black–that’s far from a “rarity”.
Beyond this, many African American women are well into age and not married to black, white, or other. It is sad but true nonetheless.
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There are way more white women, true, but that does not account for low number of marriages between white women and black men.
If race did not matter in America, then among married white women 1 in 8 would have a black husband. But it does matter, so the number is in fact 1 in 179.
So it does come down to racism, both direct (not wanting black husbands or black babies) and indirect (the lack of integration in American society).
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Among married black men, only one in 14 has a white wife. That is not “rare” but it is not all that common either.
The bigger issue is that so many black woman are going unmarried. Whatever the reasons for that (I am doing a post on that next week), it has little to do with black men running after white women.
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Exactly, Abagond. I agree w/ everything you said. Obviously, racism is the reason why blacks in general, intermarry the least in this country.
Indigoblu, yes 73% of the small number of blacks who interrmary are black men w/ non-black women (mostly white) but that’s not the vast majority. That’s what I was pointing out.
There’s many factors in why a good segment of black women in the U.S. aren’t married. White women aren’t even a factor. Racism sure is tho. As is the numerical shortage of black men compared to black women, etc.
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Also Indigoblu,
You actually stated a untruth. 73% of the interracial marriages involving a BLACK SPOUSE (not all IR marriages) are made up of black women and non-black (usually white) women. That’s the 8% of black men who married out. That doesn’t comprise ALL interracial marriages.
Most interracial marriages (all 5-6% of them) in this country are comprised of white people and non-black minorities. The vast majority. East Asians have a much higher intermarriage rate than blacks (who do it the least …guess we are the least meltable in this so-called melting pot). Hell, all the other minority groups do.
Also, Abagond, you can’t overlook that a very tortured history between black women and white men contributes very deeply (subconsciously?) to the reason why the two ‘groups’ stay away from each other. That may be the root of all of this.
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I’m pretty late but Ann’s comment (#30) was the most on-point comment I’ve ever read on this blog. YOU ARE THE TRUTH! You laid it all on the line beautifully. Woo!
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mynameismyname:
Yes, it is just considering black-white marriages, not all couples; I stated it in a why that indicated all IR marriages– sorry for the misinformation and thanks for clearing that up.
I guess I am looking at it this way: although ~8.4% of black men are marrying out, and it may seem like a small number —- compare that to say the 70% of black women who are unmarried and 42.4% black women who are likely never to get married–that is entirely too close to half. The black family is deteriorating. Yes, there are many factors that play into this but that 8.4% seems like a lot when looking at the entire picture.
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70% of black women not married?! Wait, from the last census, how MANY black women ARE married?
Those numbers seem off. Stats can always be spun a different way, too, we all have to be aware of that.
8.4% is not alot. I’m sorry. Interracial dating doesn’t “threaten” the black community at all, in reality. No matter what someone’s individual experiences/perceptions may be. Don’t forget that interracial dating w/ blacks is very looked down upon for the very most part. This prevents it from happening on a much broader scale.
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Asian men have a rougher time finding a mate, due to the TRULY HIGH number of Asian women marrying white men here in the States.
Yet the media doesn’t really focus or explore that …hmmm….
Yet the small amount of black who wind up married or even dating with a non-black is frequently “explored” (in a biased manner).
The media playing tricks again? And are we are falling for it?
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mynameismyname:
Sorry for any misunderstanding, but I’m not against interracial dating or marriage, I was only speaking on the fact that there is a high number of black women who are not married. Neither have I said that interracial dating, as you said, OR marriages are a “big threat” to anything—if I somehow indicated that, pls excuse me–what I am saying is when everything adds up it’s an undeniable fact there are still many black women who are not married, which I said many factors play on. The 8.4% seems like a lot, not IS a lot, but seems like a lot when you take into consideration the many black women who are not married and may never get married (kind of like every little bit counts). Of course the real threat is the incarceration of black men and the high rates of unemployment.
Regardless, many black women tend, as Ann already mentioned, to stick with “their own” and if that trend continues and nothing else changes, the amount of unmarried black women will only increase.
Aba:
I know this has kind of gotten off your original topic. Sorry about that. 😉
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It is close enough.
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White men are more racist than anyone else. If you want to come right down to the crux of the matter we are probably the least racist of any group. We don’t have to prove anything about how white we are by excluding other races from our friendships or beds, the way some people feel the need to do.
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That is wishful thinking. It is not supported by the facts. Among American men, white men are the least likely to marry outside their race. By that measure they are the most racist.
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GG says:
Wow Robin, you sure are an ignorant, self-hating racist and a narcissist. You are just as bad as a person who refuses to date or have friends outside his race. I really hope your husband doesn’t feel the same way you do or is he one of these hypocritical men with the “slavemaster mentality”?
Robin, you apparently have a very strong hatred towards non-black women and black men. Throw all the baby hissy fits all you want, but the truth is you’re SO insecure and find the need to flaunt and advertise your interracial marriage, and only condone BW/WM relationships because they’re the least common and you just happen to be in one, and at the same time, you bad mouth other people’s relationships. Just be thankful you have someone who loves you for you, not because of your skin color. (But if your husband ONLY married you because of your skin color, then he has serious issues with himself). There’s too many problems in this world to worry about who’s dating who.
As for you disrespecting white women, your statements come across being a vindictive woman with low self-esteem. You use the excuse, (and a very lame one), that white women only date ugly black men. Is it fair to assume uneducated, ugly white men date black women because they can’t find smart, pretty white women? Or vice versa? No, it’s not a fair assumption.
How about your ranting on about how beautiful you are and all the white women in Michigan are fat and ugly. I travel back and forth to Michigan 2-3 times a week from Chicago. I see ugly people and attractive people of all colors across the 3 states. My next door neighbor is an RN, and a gorgeous white woman (who is originally from Portage, Michigan) married to a very handsome, black surgeon. And her pretty sister is engaged to a hot Latin guy. Or look at Heidi Klum and Seal. So much for your outrageous theory that only ugly white women date ugly non-white men.
As for the town you live in, I assume you’re probably beautiful by default because the other women are just unkept and not fashionable. Race is irrelevant. Any person who puts effort in their looks can be attractive, regardless of color or size. I bet if you, Robin, were to go to Miami (where all races of people are gorgeous) or LA, you would either blend in, or not even be noticed at all. Beauty’s in the eye of the beholder. I personally know of so many people from the Chicago area, and (Chicago does have some good looking people), who are arrogant and think they are Adonises or Goddesses, and when they go to Miami or LA for “the Industry”, they either face very tough competition or are practically invisible.
People date or marry people for various reasons or none at all. Do you really believe the attactive black women date Robert De Niro because he’s a handsome guy (maybe during the Godfather and Raging Bull years, but now, ew!) Or the blonde bombshells that share Hugh Hefner only dig him because he’s just so muscular and fine looking.
My advice to you Robin, please see a therapist. You must have your paranoia of people staring at you and your husband taken care of immediately. It’s all in your mind. Maybe these women you accuse of staring at you and your husband are thinking, “Why the hell is that couple staring at me?” You really need to lighten up, Robin. You make a Klansman look good natured.
I didn’t even bother to read your whole response. Ignorant??? I’m not that at all. White women and non black women hate black women and guess what? You are just mad because I speak the truth. It’s true, that most ugly black men are with you ugly white women…right? No need to respond, because I don’t come on this site often.:)
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So Abagond, what is the answer? White men don’t want BW and BM are “available”. Any suggestions? Just die sad and alone?
You are a WM, you like BW. Are there others out there? If there are others out there like you, how do you connect with them?
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Wow, I wish I had the answer. I wish I could wave a wand and give every black woman a good husband. But the world is not like that.
Check out this post if you have not seen it already:
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Yeah, Abagond. I had already read that one, hence, the question. I meant to say BM are NOT available. But, one monkey don’t stop no show.
Thank you for writing things like this. It is funny how you as a WM can see BW in such an intimatel light but somehow SOME BM don’t or just aren’t bothered with it. That seems funny/strange/ironic/sad.
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Ironbutterfly:
It made me sad to read what you typed, but it’s true and it is a sad thing.
I think BW, and in general, any woman should simply just find and be with the man who loves and respects her, that is all.
In reference to love, there is nothing else to look for.
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White men have been sexing the black woman for so long, he is too common with her. He had rights to her body when her own man wasn’t allowed to touch her. The White man and the Black woman pretty much came together and recreated a different type of black people. This is the reason why very few Black Americans that are 100% African.
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Correction… White men have been sexing the black woman for a long time and he is now common with her. He had rights to her body when her own man wasn’t allowed to touch her. The White man and the Black woman pretty much came together and recreated a different type of black people. This is the reason why very few Black Americans are 100% African. Maybe because the lonely black man and white woman was always at home waiting for their partners, they took an interest in each other.
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True that, Samantha,
Black women and white men have a history in this country that NO ONE wants to even mention, let alone explore and discuss.
This is a large reason behind the dismal marriage/dating rate between the two.
Also, in this society, black men are given a sense of physical/sexual desirability that black women don’t. That explains why it’s very common for a black man to be seen as handsome and “sexy” but still taboo for a black woman to be seen as being on par with non-black women, physically. It explains why the hangups about hair texture and shades of brown skin vex waayy more black women than black men. It explains why several black men have became superstars in Hollywood while black women still struggle in Tinsletown. And most damning, it explains why black men are far more likely to be in an interracial relationship than a black woman.
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abagond Says:
Wed 25 Jun 2008
“White men are racist: They do not want their sons and daughters to be black. Not because their parents are against it, not because their friends are against it, not because white society is against it – because they themselves are against it!”
I don’t think this generalization applies to the white man in the picture. But it is true family acceptance (mostly older generations) and societal stigma are factors. I am speaking from my own personal experience. It is inevitable that, over time, these artificial barriers will diminish more and more.
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@Samantha Galland.
I agree with their premise of your comments, but, there is one part of your comments that bothered me.
This wording: “The White man and the Black woman pretty much came together and recreated a different type of black people.” “Came together”?
From my study of the history of slavery, Reconstruction, and Jane Crow segregation in America, Black women did not “come together” willingly with White men to create the race of people now known in the United States as Black Americans.
Enslaved Black women were either raped, or sexually coerced during slavery, Reconstruction and segregation. A woman who is enslaved has no rights to tell the master not to rape her, and many, many Black women (and girls) were forced with sex and pregnancy against their will.
Your comment comes across as if stating that Black women could not wait to be raped and forcibly impregnated by Black-women hating White males (slave master, his sons, his uncles, White slave overseer.)
And not to be forgotten are the many White males who did not own slaves who lived in the surrounding county, who sexually forced themselves on many Black females: poor White males who joined the “Paddy Rollers”; poor White males who raped a Black woman traveling from plantation to plantation, to visit her family sold away from her.
It was not just the White slave master who raped Black women and passed his rapist blood into black people; many poor White males did the same. Black women had no say so in this.
They were the prey of ANY WHITE MALE, therefore, there was no “coming together” between White male rapists and raped Black females. Coming together involves consent and respect.
And White males by and large in America, have shown minimal consent and respect towards Black women where Black women’s bodies, minds, and hearts have been. I do agree with you on this statement:
“This is the reason why very few Black Americans that are 100% African.”
Agreed.
All Black Americans have to do is look in a mirror and see the evidence of White male hatred of black women. We are living evidence of a race of men who have such vicious contempt for a race of women who done White men no earthly wrong. Even those Black people who are very dark-skinned carry genetic blood of rapists in their veins, as a DNA test will confirm.
Please be careful how you word statements.
There is overwhelming documentation that proves that Whites males were anything but gentlemanly and humane towards Black women.
Or that they “asked” for the consent of Black women and girls, right beofre they brutally raped and impregnated them.
That is not what “coming together” means to me.
And there still is much today in their behaviour towards Black women, that shows that many of them still would not give the humanity of Black women the time of day.
Pardons for the history class, but, statements like “came together” come as if Black women willingly helped change the DNA structure of Black people can be misconstrueded by other people who can take such a comment to mean that Black women (and Black girls) enjoyed having their black people’s bloodline polluted by White rapist blood.
“Maybe because the lonely black man and white woman was always at home waiting for their partners, they took an interest in each other.”
The history of BM/WW has a different context. White women, unlike White men, could not go out and casually have sex with any Black man, free or enslaved. White women were put on a pedestal to be the “bearers” of the race, and therefore, to keep the White family/race bloodline “pure”, White women could not have children from any man but a White man.
I would not say that is was as simple as White women and Black men were sitting at home “waiting for their partners”, as the White woman could not tell the White male to get out and leave, since White women could not own property like White men (when they married, they lost property rights.)
But, yes, the White woman was left alone on her marriage bed many a night while her White husband went out raping all the Black females he could lay his hands on; the Black man could do nothing to defend their Black partners against White male lust. All he could do was comfort her as best he could OR not hate on her for something she had no control over anymore than he had control over White male’s actions of forced genetic annihilation against Black people.
Another thing about WW/BM—–anytime two groups of people are KEPT from each other, a type of momentum builds up, and a type of rubber-band attraction occurs. Because they had been denied each other for so long, this rubber-band attraction can, and will occur. (That is what happens when you pull a rubber band so tight: it snaps back towards the opposite areas held in resistance, and control.)
Both (WW/BM) will want to seek out and “discover” each other as much as possible. And that is what they did, coming on the heels of the abolition of legal segregation.
That is what the White man created with his lies against Black men as rapists of White women: lies that built up into mythic proportions.
The biggest rapists of all time in this country has been the White man, everyone who knows American history knows that.
The White man knows that.
Once White women got away from Daddy and started seeing Black men (during the Civil Rights Movement), they found out that Black men were just like any other race of men: no better, no less.
But, when people are denied each other for so long (due to lies and stereotypes) there will be a desire to find out what it is they feel they are missing. That is what happened between WW and BM.
In the case of BW/WM, I would not say that Black women are common to WM. How so? Am I to understand you to mean that WM can still rape at will BW, even in 21ST Century America, and still get away with it? That White men of today, 21ST Century America have dated so many Black women that they are tired of them? That White men of today 21ST Century America have been constantly TALKING/SPEAKING to Black women on a daily basis, the way they would speak to and acknowledge White, Asian, Latina women, and now those White men are experts on the feelings and minds of Black women of today?
How can White male rapists of the past create an image of Black women being “common” to White men of today in the minds of present-day White American males?
How can Black women be “common” to White men, when most White men do not acknowledge Black women as individual human beings? When most White men treat Black women as if Black women are invisible?
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@mynameismyname.
“Black women and white men have a history in this country that NO ONE wants to even mention, let alone explore and discuss.This is a large reason behind the dismal marriage/dating rate between the two.”
Very much agree with you.
For many people it is far easier to discuss the cruelties that so many, many Black men faced at the hands of sadistic lynchers who physically castrated defenseless Black men. (And that history SHOULD be spoken of as well.)
But, then again, it is more easier for White males to discuss the castrations of Black males during lynching because White males fear castration like any other male (unless of course THEY are doing the castration, the way so many White males did to defenseless Black males.)
Not to mention the fact that Black women were raped, whipped, abused and forcibly impregnated BECAUSE they were Black women, NOT because they were women who happened to be Black.
The thought of discussing what was done to Black women would sicken one’s stomach. And why is that?
Because White men then KNEW that what they were doing to Black women and girls was abominable, hateful, and morally wrong, and they feared that Black men would do to White women what White men did to Black women for over 450 years. White men still fear that……that what goes around, comes round, and that one day the chickens definitely will come home to roost. But, not much chance of such a thing happening. Not much chance of Black men hatefully mistreating White women the way White men have hatefully mistreated Black women. Many Black men, like many Black women, are too busy getting on with their lives to be seeking revenge.
But, try telling that to the many White men who fear that history will come knocking on their door for historical payback.
That is why many Americans (White, and YES, Black) DO NOT WANT TO TALK about mass gang-rapes against Black women.
It would take much strength to face this most sick, perverted and depraved chapter in American history, which is why NO one brings it up.
A few brave souls out there do, but, most Americans could not handle facing up to America’s most filthiest era.
Sexual intimacy is one of the most private and personal aspects of a human being’s existence, and that White men of slavery/Reconstruction/segregation have degraded and defiled that has left more than a bad taste in the mouth of Black Americans.
The wounds from such nasty mistreatment still live with us, the vestiges of such horrific maltreatment still live with us…………….the LEGACY of such racist/sexist hate still lives on in how millions of White men still have the audacity to think they THEY are better than Black women, when it is White men whose race has the history of crimes against the humanity of Black women.
“Also, in this society, black men are given a sense of physical/sexual desirability that black women don’t. That explains why it’s very common for a black man to be seen as handsome and “sexy” but still taboo for a black woman to be seen as being on par with non-black women, physically. It explains why the hangups about hair texture and shades of brown skin vex waayy more black women than black men. It explains why several black men have became superstars in Hollywood while black women still struggle in Tinsletown. And most damning, it explains why black men are far more likely to be in an interracial relationship than a black woman.”
True.
Women are penalized more if they do not fit some idea of “beauty”. With White/Eurocentric “beauty” as the standard, Black women have much to prevail against.
Unlike women, men are not prized for any man-created “ideal of beauty”, but by their physical prowess, ability to get as many women they can, the size of their paycheck.
Since Black women’s beauty cannot compete against the many lies of White women’s “beauty” many Black women who do not physically come close to White features are constantly left out of the dating/marriage market.
That is not the fault of Black women—it is the fault of White men and their centuries old lies against the beauty of Black women.
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@John.
“I don’t think this generalization applies to the white man in the picture.”
But, that is just THAT ONE WHITE MAN in that picture. One White man married to one Black woman. Some White men have the balls to stand up for what they want.
Sadly, many White men do not have the balls to stand up to their families, community and white-run country known as America.
“It is inevitable that, over time, these artificial barriers will diminish more and more.”
And what “period of time” will that be?
One hundred years?
Five hundred years?
One thousand years?
Five thousand years?
Ten thousand years?
Keep in mind, white people destroyed much from Black/West African people when they enslaved and tore away centuries of knowledge and skills that Black/West African peoples had before they had the misfortune of crossing paths with rapacious Whites.
Much has been lost due to White supremacy hatred, just as much has been lost due to White male hatred of Black women.
I would not count on many White men growing some backbone and treating Black women as human beings anytime soon.
Hell, White men have had over 450 years to beat down and use Black women, and NOT be held accountable for that mistreatment, so why should White men now start seeing Black women with new and more respectful “eyes?
Why should White men now, apologize and extend the olive branch of reconciliation towards and asking for forgiveness, from Black women?
White men have treated Black women as invisible for centuries, why should they decide to grow backbones and a conscious…….NOW?
Not much chance of them according Black women respect when they have not had much reason to do it in the last few centuries.
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Right, I do not see how it is inevitable.
As to the picture, I chose it because it showed a white man with a black woman and their visibly black children. It was a hard picture to find!
Ask yourself: how often do you see a white man with black children who are his own?
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Ann:
I wrote a post on white men and black women in slave days. I doubt you will like it, but I still would like your comments. Please be gentle (!!!), but do not hold back either – if that makes sense.
Here it is:
I want to do a post on the history white men raping black women – under slavery, Jim Crow and now. Any references you can provide would be appreciated.
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@Abagond.
“I wrote a post on white men and black women in slave days. I doubt you will like it, but I still would like your comments. Please be gentle (!!!), but do not hold back either – if that makes sense.”
I will be honest with you in my response.
For this comment:
“I want to do a post on the history white men raping black women – under slavery, Jim Crow and now. Any references you can provide would be appreciated.
I will refer you to my Trilogy, “Missing White Woman Syndrome”:
Pay particular attention to Parts 1 and 2.
I will go over to your post and read it and leave my comments there.
What many people erroneously do is CONCENTRATE on slavery, and forget wholly about Reconstruction (or better yet, its destruction before it had a chance to begin), and people also forget about Jane Crow segregation, and the mistreatment of Black women by White men during these two eras, after slavery.
White male hatred of Black women did not end with the abolition of slavery…..it continued on for another 100 years, well up to the 1970s.
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Oops!
I forgot to include the links to my “White Woman Trilogy”:
That is just for starters.
After I read your post you mentioned, I will give you more reading materials to better enlighten you on how white men mistreated black women during and AFTER slavery.
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I am so glad I found this blog. I have been hearing people discussing this issue on tv and on certain afternoon radio shows and the blame always seems to be placed on the BW. I am finally glad to see someone who sees what I see. I am a BW, I live in Alabama and I have never been approached by a white man. While I agree that there is some hesitation or nervousness on the part of BW to date outside the race, I also don’t think the opportunity to do so is there as much as some people like to say. I am sorry, but here in Alabama especially, I do not see WM knocking people out of the way to get to a sistah. I see what Blanc2 said and that is that we seem to be invisible to men of other races. I wish all the world could be as open as people are in NY or LA to this. But even the time I lived in Houston, TX did not produce a knock on the door. BTW I am an educated BW with a Master’s degree, and while slightly overweight I consider myself attractive.
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I think that you tend to see more black men with white women than you do white men with black woman because of the way the white man was raised by his family. If his family raised him to conceive stereotypes whether they are racist or not then many white men will have a reluctance to date and marry black women. While it does not anger me to see a white man with a black woman, but there have been many white men who tell me that sexually they do fantasize about the fine sisters with the butt, full lips, and big breasts. It would be the same reason or different that black men like white women. I know I like white women and I would not mind a fine sister but I have generally never been attracted to any, although I have some black female friends who understand the attraction I have for white women.
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Whiteladieslover,
I agree. While you see white women crossing the line to marry black men, white men do not do so in large numbers because they are raised to uphold whitness and white privilege. Plus they have to marry white women in order to have white babies. Without white babies, white society collapses. Therefore, it’s up to the white men to carry on the family line.
Corporate, Professional, and Capitalistic pressures is another. Having a black wife IS A LIABILITY! A lot of higher ups don’t like the idea of white men with black wives so they punish them economically and socially. Remember Guess Who?
_________
La Reyna
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This is an American thing. In Europe, there are just as many bw/wm couples as bm/ww couples.
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La Reyna,
Out of curiosity, do you think it’s equally a liability for a white woman in professional/corporate settings to have a black husband?
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I remember watching a segment on interracial relationships on Sally Jessy Raphael back in 1994, one upper middle class white man by the name of John said he likes to date black women but won’t marry any because of “children”. The guests were angry at him and rightfully so. One white woman who’s married to a black man said that it’s people like him is continuing racism. I concur anf a lot more. He doesn’t want to give up his white privilege, which he valued the most.
What say you, Abagond?
Stephanie
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La Reyna,
You never answered my question, from post #84.
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Mynameismyname,
It is somewhat for a white woman in corporate America. But since so few women rise in corporate America, few pressures were placed on white women with black husbands. They were not crucial to the maintenance of whiteness to the extent white men in corporate America are.
They can be married to black or other men of color with fewer penalties. That’s my opinion.
La Reyna
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Ann,
Thanks so much for fleshing out the many historical reasons why BW/WM IRR’s are more rare in American than WM/non-BW IRR’s. This is a major reason why, today, any WM/non-BM in America who wants to SERIOUSLY DATE/MARRY BW MUST demonstrate RESPECT FOR THE HUMANITY, DIGNITY, AND FEMININITY OF BW. WM/non-BM should also steer clear of RACIST TENDENCIES such as acting as if BW are INVISIBLE SECOND CLASS WOMEN or NOT TREATING THEIR RELATIONSHIPS WITH BW WITH THE SAME RESPECT THAT THEY TREAT THEIR RELATIONSHIPS WITH OTHER NON-WW. ANY WM/non-BM who is UNWILLING TO RESPECT THE HUMANITY, DIGNITY, AND FEMININITY OF BW has NO BUSINESS APPROACHING BW FOR ANY RELATIONSHIP. It’s important to note that it was a BW/WM relationship (the Lovings) that legalized Black/White marriages in America (non-Black/White marriages had been accepted in America long before the Loving’s case) and that there are many EUROPEAN WM who have/are in successful, positive dating/marriage relationships with BW. American WM/non-BM can LEARN A LOT FROM THEM.
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This is completely stupid. Saying that White men or women are racist because they have lower rates of marrying outside of their race is ridiculous. Since there is no latino category listed I am assuming that most latinos are probably lumped in with the white category which would make whites roughly 80% of the population. Considering that if you were to randomly combine a white person with any other person there would be an 80% chance they would marry another white person. Blacks and Asians would have much lower odds of randomly marrying within their race (roughly 14% and 5%). As such the fact that whites are more likely to marry within their ethnic category than other groups shows us nothing more than that there are simply a lot more white people out there as potential mates. The only statistical anomalies in the data shown above is the fact that asian women and black men are much more likely to marry outside of their race their respective gender counterparts. Stop the BS with trying to show that this makes whites somehow racist.
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There is so much stuff to be commented … but I stick to a few points:
Why are so many people screaming “RACIST!!!11eleven” when someone says he/she prefers to keep his/hers relationship in race or excludes certain races from his/her choice.
Noone cares if I say that I prefer blonds over brunettes but if I say I prefer whites over blacks I am a racist? What those people are asking for is no liberalisation but sexual gleichschaltung against personal preferences (why don’t we arrenge all mariages with some kind of lottery!?). It’s no racism to say you do not like big lips, curly hair and wide curves. Someone having preferences which in majortiy are fulfilled by certain groups does not require him to behave bad in any way over the others.
If I say someone does not deserve the same payment as me because he/she is black or should not be allowed to do certain activities or whatsoever, THAT is racism. If I say that black (black is a placeholder for any attribute here) men/women are not so beautiful in my opinion it is my personal opinion and preference – NO racism!
PS: to prevent angry answers: I agree that it is racism if someone says that he does not want a black mariage because it would mean black children.
It is difficult for me to state on the B&W issue as black people are very scarce here in Germany. Out of all black women I met so far (you can count them on one or two hands) there was one I would call attractive and she was totally dumb. So I simply had no real opportunity to find out if I have any special attitude to black women.
About the racism which has been stated several times in different forms:
Here is what I’ve encountered in several occasions; I have no numbers or essays to prove it but I think underlying racism is more common to women than to men.
I once stumbled into some kind of black scene bar with some friends in berlin. I mean there were approximately 90% blacks. Most of them were very open to us and I had a chat with some guys instantly. I also had a long chat with a black girl. But these black girls were treating the non-black girls in this bar like an impurity. It was totally ok for them to chat with non-black guys but they were like “You white %bad words% girls pls stay away of our black men!”.
I also was once out with a friend (russish), his new girl friend and his sister and I was some kind of engaged with her. When my friend and his girl friend were dancing and we on our own she was prattling something like “WTH is my brother hanging around with this german %bad word%!?”. I asked her if she noticed that I was german too, but she “explained” me that that was something different. I don’t get the difference until today but I got to the point that this is a very common female behavior. Maybe I am totally wrong but it could explain some of the statistics given here.
And finally to pick up Nick’s (previous post) number example: From a mathematical point of view the likelyhood for a group of 80% to stay within this group is 94.12% if all groups are perfectly mixed. As there is seperation into districts etc the value has to be corrected upwards. The bigger a group is the more likely you stay in it. Of course this statement contradicts with the fact that also minor groups tend to stick to their own in praxis. I think there is no practicable mathematics for human relationships anyway 😉
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I think it is perfectly natural to date and marry within one’s race. I see nothing wrong or racist in that.
Some men like white women more than black women and others like black women more than white women. Again, there is nothing racist in that. Men cannot like all women equally and much of what they like is probably inborn and beyond their control.
The argument of this post is not that. Instead I am arguing that so few white men marry black women – only 1 in 400 of married white men in America where 1 woman in 8 is black – because they are racist.
I do not have any hard numbers on this, but at a guess I would say that at least 10% of white men think black women are good-looking enough to want to date. The number is probably higher that that, but let us assume it is 10%.
If so, then for every white man who likes black women, only about 1 in 40 winds up marrying one. Why? It is not because they think they are ugly. It is certainly not a lack of opportunity, not in America. I am arguing it is because they do not want black children – or their parents do not want black grandchildren and will give them hell about it. And it is that – the bit about not wanting black children – that is racist.
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I think it goes further than just not wanting black offspring. I believe that whites just see blacks as inherently inferior to them. And of course, there’s the terse history between white men and black women in this country. We can’t forget or overlook that.
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Also,
You seem to skip over the fact that black American women FIRMLY stick to black men. Black American women, the overwhelimg majority, want black men EXCLUSIVELY. You can see this in internet dating sites, for example. Hell, just by talking to various black women. I’ve had black women become almost hostile with me when I even merely asked if they’d be involved with a white male.
That’s one of the main reasons why the marriage/dating stats for both populations are so dismal: the great majority of black women are unwilling to be involved with a white male. And of course, this brings us back to that grim history.
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True – there is that history and there are black women who only want to marry a black man. Yet, despite all that, black women are more likely marry outside their race than are white men.
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Here’s another reason why Black women won’t marry outside our race is what one Black professional woman said:
“Yeah, but there are days when I walk out of a boardroom at Kraft Foods and think it would be nice, frankly, to call somebody and say, “Baby, you’re not going to believe what happened today.” To be able to share that would really make a difference…
I have several friends who say, “Hey, I want somebody who knows what it feels like to go in the boardroom and kick butt and come back out.” That may mean you have to marry someone that’s not black. I know that may have certain implications for our race that are very, very difficult, such as keeping wealth in the black family and having kids we can pass stories down to…
I do feel sad about it. Our experience as a race is a unique one and a special one, one that I would love to see continue.”
Many Black women like the woman above do feel that way. They want to stay Black and promote Black love.
What say you?
Stephanie B.
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Here’s another one, this time is by Robyn Thorpe, on the importance of dating Black men and keeping Black heritage:
“Robyn Thorpe: Believe it or not I completely agree with you. Race is only one component of what makes a good marriage or relationship. You decided that marrying a Black man was not a priority, and that is your right. You also decided that your outlook, interests and goals were not intertwined with your being Black and that is your right too.
My choice to not attempt to date white men is not based on any hatred or distrust of the white community. I would never attempt to alienate any human being based on their color and I would never call any person a mongrel, and if that had happened to you, it is a pity that you had to deal with such hateful people. My desire to have a Black mate is based on my love for my people and is not a judgment call on other people. Just as you decided that being Black was just a color, and does not color your outlook on life, your interests and your goals, I have come to a different opinion and that is my right. Being Black is more than my complexion and that I want a Black man who feels that his African heritage does color who he is and does shape his outlook, interests and goals. So what you call cutting off, should really be called settling for what I don’t want, which would not be fair to the man or me. Maybe I will change my POV about having a Black man one day but today is not the day. I think we all have infrequent chances for good happy marriages and I am glad that you have one. And I liked your family example of dating and marrying interracially to other people of color. Interracial dating is not a Black man or White man option. I have family members who have married other people of color and are very happy.”
___________________
Stephanie B.
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While there is an imbalance of black male professionals compared to black female professionals, black male professionals do exist.
Sure finding them and building a connection takes work, but doesn’t anything that is worth having if that is what one truly wants?
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Good point, Realitychecker.
But I think a lot of female professionals, or just females in general, need to be more honest in what they want in a mate.
I find that many women are looking for a good man, sure. But one with a fat pocket. Or the strong potential to have one in the future! When they don’t see that, they throw the “deuce”, so to speak, and then cry about “no good men”.
But that’s a whole ‘nother conversation!
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Hmm … I would say that’s no good point at all. It’s simply a fact that there are not enough well educated black men for all the well educated black women (even if ignoring the education factor there are not enough black men for the black women). They can work as hard as they want, they can not all have a well educated black man as long as they keep to monogamy. So, many black women have no choice but to be lonely or marry interracially.
And your long-term-prostitute-theory is pretty farfetched and unsound, mynameismyname. It’s more a spoiled projection of a sterotype women had been forced to fulfil in the past, imho.
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In America there are about a half million more black women with university degrees than black men.
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Jacob,
Are you black?
Where did I say that all women are out for money when seeking a mate?
I’m just noting the existence of a certain mentaility that exists among many. One that I think hinders the possibilities for a fufilling mate. That’s all I was pretty much saying, perhaps in a playfully blunt way that got misread.
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Good point with the stats about the college degree disparity between black women and black men in the U.S.
Of course, as “Jacob” noted, black American females already outnumber black American males by a bit.
Now, here’s where it gets interesting:
Black male BA degree holders make about $10,000 more than their black female counterparts who hold the same degree. YET they still make 28% less than their white male counterparts who also have a BA degree.
On the other hand, black female BA degree holders earn about the similar income (if not higher in many cases) as their white female counterparts who also have a BA degree.
What does this all suggest?
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That employers are racist mainly against black men, not black women.
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Blanc2,
I take issue with the fact that you think mixed women are “super attractive” or extra than other women. I think monoracial black women are super attractive and extrodinary as well. I know white women with mixed kids who think that they are a little above little monoracial black kids. And I know monoracial black kids who obess with being light with “good hair” and whose self-esteem is very low because of these ideals.
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I hear people say that – mixed children are better looking. Why do they say that? It does not seem to be true, so it makes me think something strange is going on behind that statement.
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Ihear that alot too…I think its because the child ends up exotic looking to both races.
Remember you said exotic is relative…so if a child ends up with features that are from both races…they would be exotic to both as well.
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aba said: I hear people say that – mixed children are better looking.
*********
In comparison to whom????
I don’t think any group of women is better looking than any other. It’s sexist to compare and forces women to go against each other.
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Kat – he ment when their are IR couples with offspring – people will act like those offspring are better looking then people of a single race.
If I tell someone that I think my niece is beautiful I always get the – of course she is – she is mixed..which is dumb…I have seen some really ugly mixed kids. Some how the perception is out there that mixed kids are always very attractive.
And like I said above, – I think it has to do with them aving exotic attributes for each race they are apart of.
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Right, it is said of mixed children.
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I am a Black female of brown complexion and very good looking as men of all races have shown me by their attention throughout my life. I have socialized with Black people and White people and my experiences has revealed that WM feel sexually inferior to Black men basically due to inferior penis size but, added to this and more important, is the White man’s racism that he brings into the relationship with a BW, this stops romance from developing because, he really wants the Black woman as an exotic sexual jungle fantasy and his heart is unable to develop a feeling of love for her because she does not fit his image of female White-value. This I believe is why usually the WM does not consider marrying a BW. This model of the WM is for 98% of his race but, I do believe as generations evolve the percentage will gradually decrease.
The BM marries or has a WW for a girlfriend for the same reason the WM is stifled in his ability to evolve a love interest for the BW. The WW generally is motivated toward the BM for sexual satisfaction (that is why the WM has historically feared the BM’s economic liberation, he feared his women would prefer the BM), she also likes the BM for his color, often preferring dark chocolate and for the warm inward spirit that the Black race has.
BW are more loyal to the race but, since even BM’s are basically romantically biased against a dark skinned woman, a BW would turn to the WM except that his racism is too hard to bear particularly when you may also have sexual frustration.
Some readers may define my comments as racist but, they are my factual not emotional conclusions. And America’s value preference for light skinned and bi-racial female celebrities as well as our BM celebrities continually majority choice of them for wives only supports what I have said. BW affirm it with their weave-ins and European hair wigs and colors (blond, red, etc.) as they are trying to give at least an imitation of White beauty to make themselves acceptable to be desired for love, instead of being primarily viewed as lust objects and “beast of burdens”. Fortunately, I do believe the passage of future years will bring in balance the basis for the value of beauty and love more equally for the BW who is dark (brown to black complexion) for indeed color is quite beautiful, as supported by White persons lust for suntanning regardless of risk of skin cancer.
Abagond, you asked for comment on your post about White men and Black women during slavery:
My grandfather was half White because he was the son of his White slave master who raped his slave mother, on the Birmingham Alabama plantation on which he was born in slavery. I knew my grandfather, his daughter, my mother, sent me every summer to vacation with him and his wife, my grandmother. For most African Americans it is their great grandfather who may have experienced slavery, but my grandfather was 20-years older than my grandmother; therefore, is why I had a grand parent who had actually been a slave. My grandfather looked White, including blond silky straight hair and not having a birth certificate, he said he estimates he was the age of eight or ten years old when slavery was abolished and he was thus set free, later he moved up North. He died when I was about age-11 and he often spoke about the “bucks” on the plantation.
My mother and her sisters by definition and looks were mulatto but, all chose to marry dark complexioned African American men who appeared to have no racial mixture. However, their obvious White racial mixture did not merit them any respect from the racist White men in the community who had the habit of sexually assaulting black girls by groping them as they walked by and other sexual familiarities, so my grandfather and uncle kept their shut guns loaded and ready for battle. And the fear of this battle made my mother and aunts the few black girls who were not molested by these filthy racists.
My uncle, in contrast to Moma and her sisters, apparently mainly took from the African gene pool in my grandparents genealogy because, his only indication of bi-racial was his straight silky coal black hair. His only girlfriend during his entire life was an African American woman whose racial mixture made her vanilla complexion so deathly pale that as a child I thought her rather ugly. But she adored my uncle.
I could tell you of more assaults like the poison-death of one of my mothers sisters who did not live past childhood but, I won’t continue.
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As a white male, I can tell you that historic disapproval from society, family or peers have more to do with the small numbers of WM marrying BW than anything else. However, it is inevitable that the numbers will increase, because over the last decade, there has been more acceptance of these relationships. I have always believed that most WM could be attracted to BW and, if nobody interferes, they would be more inclined to pursue these relationships. There are so many beautiful African American women and I can’t imagine the average heterosexual WM not being attracted to them, even if they don’t take the initiative to approach them. Men are men, no matter the ethnicity.
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A White Guy: Answer me this, something I have always wondered about: how come when a beautiful black woman walks by the black men will look at her in the way that you would expect but with white men it is like she is not even there?
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Suzy: a great and interesting comment, especially the bit about how racism affects white men in their relationships with black women. Thanks! And also the part about your grandfather too!
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I have heard some of these black women say that some of these white men do notice them discreetly, but they are not bold enough to be forward about it. There is still some social conditioning that inhibits them.
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Thanks.
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Suzy’s lengthy comment is another example of the hangups about skin shade that many black women exhibit. Interesting post tho; she has a lot of issues.
Of course, social disapproval is a key reason why IR rates between blacks and whites are low but doesn’t that tie in to what I was saying earlier? The idea that black is inferior prevents people from being associated with it?
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Right because the so-called social disapproval is just racism in motion.
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I think some of you have seen this, but just in case here is a pretty sickening account of a white man dating a black woman – I think it goes to what Suzy said:
http://roissy.wordpress.com/2007/10/31/interracial-loving/
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You are highlighting the negative WM, who date BW for some kind of fantasy or experiment. In other forums, I frequently complained about this type of WM. There are decent and respectful WM, who are nothing like this.
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Abagond,
I’ve been to Roissy’s website. He’s another intellectual skinhead in the mode of Steve Sailer. A lot of his writings are racist, sexist, misogynistic trash. I read the hate-filled reponses on My Inaugural Balls. Those hateful reponses makes Don Imus infamous 2007 rant on Rutgers womens’ basketball team like child’s play.
Roissy, like Half Sigma, thrives on divisiveness and racism/sexism.
I think you should start a mini hatewatch blog to warn people about hate sites such as Sailer’s, Roissy’s, etc.
I was steaming mad all day today after reading such hateful garbage.
Stephanie B.
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Recycled for further discussion.
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La Reyna: you say that sometimes – “recycled for further discussion” – what does it mean?
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La Reyna: Who is Half Sigma?
A hate-watch blog is a good idea, but I already have too many blogs as it is! It is more worthy than my “Black Beauty of the Day”, but it would also take way more time to do well. But if I come across a site like that, I could “feature” it here, like I did with Steve Sailer.
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A White Guy: I have no idea how common the Roissys of the world are, but I threw it out there because it goes to Suzy’s point.
I have not seen any surveys or studies on this, but my own feeling from all that I have heard is that it goes something like this in regard to white men and their willingness to date and marry black women (offer your own estimates – or, better yet, any studies or surveys you know of!):
70% Feel no physical attraction to most black women.
20% Are willing but have not done anything about it – lack of opportunity, fear of what friends and family would say, etc.
7% Go out with black women but just for the sex.
2% Interested in a long-term relationship, but not marriage.
1% Go out with black women and would be serious about marriage just like they would with a white woman.
Siditty, if you are reading this, I would like to know what you think! And A White Guy too. And anyone else with an opinion!
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To Abagond,
It means that a hot topic that needs to be discussed further.
As for Half-Sigma, he’s a Sailerite who lives in NYC. He criticizes people of Color all the time using Sailer’s theories and tactics. He’s a hatemonger like the rest of the right-wing blogosphere and needs to be exposed.
La Reyna
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one thing you didn’t mention is fear of what black men think. I have met white men that are concerned about what a black man might think when seeing them with a woman of colour. Also white men sometimes lack confidence & assume that all black women only want to date black men, which is not true. Some are overtly racist & don’t want to their whiteness to disappear when they have children. thats why in the past 1/4 black mixed women were most popular with white men-it normally meant their children would look white.
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Interesting. I never thought of it that way (fear of black men and how white octoroon children look). However, while some octoroons could pass for white, not all of them would be able to.
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I have dated a few black women, I am a white man. I married a black woman too, although our marriage did not work out it had nothing to do with races or back grounds but to with different relgious views. I hate to sound like i am or have closed off certain races but I have, I know I want to be with and be married to a black woman. I find there personality and easy goingness so refreshing, the woman i have dated that are black been more relaxed and fine with being there self then anyone else. I am currently dating a darkskin woman, and she seems to be every thing I dreamed of in a woman. I find black women much more attractive than white women. I live in the deep south and well every once in a while people have problems with a interracial couple, but most part i dont feel too judged or I dont let it get to me. I do find in areas that are mostly black to be more accepted, I even noticed black females smile at me when they see me with a black womanit it as they have no problem with it. That has been my exsprience, I feel sorry for the white guys that will not date a black woman because they have no idea what there missing at all, I guess saying once you go black you never go back is true in my case.
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first of all I think you are freaking racist!!! How dear you. This is just an example of the whole brain-washing of white race on to other races. I think its funny how the white race went into other countries RUNIED them then made the people of those cultures hate each other.
Listen, How many black women have you seen that you can say they are not as actractive? How many white man are really educated anyway? Do you think that all white men look like the damn guys on those reality dating shows? Please give me a break and who even says that dating a white man mens your life is going to be so much better. I think you need to get over you stupid superiority complex.
Yeah white men aren’t marrying black women, but they are quick to date them but marry susy home making when his parents forbids him to marry a black chick. Even more, while he is married to his little white wifey, he will still be creeping with the black chick on the side.
I’m not racist but I’m calling you out on your SH@t, don’t ever think that just because you are white you are better than anybody. Its a shame what you guys have done to this world then to go and insult the people whom you have cause hard. Do yourself a favor and read a freaking book.
You are so damn ignorant and stupid and I your life must be so miserable.
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You need to do yourself a favour and read the post more carefully. I never said black women were unattractive or less educated. What I said was that those were excuses and that the true reason why so few white men marry black women is because most of them are racist: they do not want black children.
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Like Ahab’s search for the Great White Whale, black racists like abagond and Ann, search for the Great White Defendant is relentless and never-ending. When Tawana Brawley’s and Al Sharpton’s 1987 charge that several white men including prosecutor Steven Pagones (whose name Brawley had picked out of a newspaper article) had abducted and raped the 15 year old was shown in 1988 to be completely false, the Nation said it didn’t matter, since the charges expressed the essential nature of white men’s treatment of black women in this country. When the Duke University lacrosse players were accused of raping a black stripper last year, liberals everywhere treated the accusation as fact, because, just as with the Nation and Tawana Brawley, the rape charge seemed to reflect the true nature of oppressive racial and sexual relations in America.
To see the actual truth of the matter, let us take a look at the Department of Justice document on Criminal Victimization in the United States, 2005, which is discussed by Christopher Chantrill at The American Thinker. (Go to the linked document, then under Victims and Offenders, download the pdf for 2005.)
In Table 42, “Personal crimes of violence, 2005, percent distribution of single-offender victimizations, based on race of victims, by type of crime and perceived race of offender,” we learn that there were 111,590 white victims of rape/sexual assault in 2005. (The number of rapes is not distinguished from those of sexual assaults; it is maddening that sexual assault, which can mean inappropriate touching, is conflated with the crime of rape.) In those 111,590 cases in which a white woman was the victim of rape/sexual assault, the offender was white in 44.5 percent of the cases and black in 33.6 percent of the cases. Of 36,620 cases in which the victim was black, 100 percent of the offenders were black, and 0.0 percent of the offenders were white. The table explains that 0.0 percent means that there were under 10 incidents nationally.
The table does not give statistics for Hispanic victims and offenders. But the bottom line on interracial white/black and black/white rape is clear:
In the United States in 2005, 37,460 white females were sexually assaulted or raped by a black man, while between zero and ten black women were sexually assaulted or raped by a white man.
What this means is that every day in the United States, over one hundred white women are raped or sexually assaulted by a black man.
So Ann’s comment that black men have not attacked WW IS A LIE. As far as what happened a couple hundred years ago, most wm did not rape bw. That is another lie by ANN.
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Nicole it is a widely accepted fact that black women were raped in masses during the days of slavery by white men your suggestion that it is a lie is like some1 saying that only 2 million Jews died in the world war 2. You should be ashamed of yourself.
I have to say think this idea that we all mix and the world becomes a better place is kinda silly we all as human beings we have the same roots and yet there is so much hatred towards our fellow human beings.
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Let’s put it this way, there are more ww raped in America every year today then bw raped by wm in any given year during slavery. And no, alot of those bw where not raped. There are an estimated 1.5 million Black men in prison and another 3.5 million on probation. Black males make up more than 70 percent of the total prison population, even though they make up only 6 percent of the U.S. population.
Although blacks are 12% of the population in reality it is just 2% of the blacks that commit 50% of the murders and a greater percentage of other crimes. Consider: black females – 6%. Blacks from zero yrs. to 12 yrs. and black males from 50-100 years commit an infinitesimal percentage of the crimes. Therefore we are left with two percent. If we eliminate crimes committed by this two percent from the U.S. statistics our country compares very favorably with all Western countries. Fact — blacks kill 7 times more than whites kill. Fact — blacks kill whites 20 times more than whites kill blacks. Fact — blacks mug or commit group crime against whites 50 times more than whites commit against blacks. Fact — blacks rape white women 2000 (yes 2000) times more than whites rape black women. In New York City, about 300 white women are raped by blacks every year BUT there has not been a black woman raped by a white male in anybody¢s memory (going back over 20 yrs.) Consider: Al Sharpton had to go upstate New York to find a hoax and that was almost 20 years ago. (Source NYT 4/22/05)
According to the Bureau of Justice Statistics 2004 report (released May 2006), blacks commit 54 percent of the homicides in America even though they constitute only 12 percent of the population.
An individual black male is seven times more likely to commit murder than an individual white male. It so happens that black felons commit 43 percent of aggravated assaults, 66 percent of armed robberies, 27 percent of rapes and 85 percent of interracial crimes of violence, mainly against whites (this last figure from a Justice Department report 2003). However, it’s not just in the United States. The greatest dicators in recent years have emerged in Africa. People like Idi Amin of Uganda, Hastings Kamuzu Banda in Malawi, Mobutu Sese Seko, in Zaire, self-anointed Emperor Bokassa of the Central African Republic, Mohammed Saidi Barre in Somalia, Sani Abacha of Nigeria, Robert Mugabe in Zimbabwe — the list is endless.
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Zero percent – no white men attacked black women in that year. I find that hard to believe. Keep in mind most of my family are police officers. And I am by no means “liberal” nor do I take at face value everything abagond says. But ZERO!!!
There is difficulty in the black community in general to report crimes. The race issues have created distrust. Rape is a horrible invasion of ones body and mind. Rape is under reported because often the victem is embarressed and lays the plame on themselves. Add to it race issues and I think a black women less likely to report it (regardless of her attackers race). And if her attacker is white – even less likely. But ZERO%. I cant believe that no BWs were assulted by WMs. Its impossible to believe. Some would argue that the WW attacked by BM were over reported and falsified because of racism. That too would be wrong. But ZERO% – seriously only 10 or less total incidents…I am sorry but, thats ridiculous.
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dedabets.
Well said.
But, I must say that one does not have to be a police officer to have evidence of the so-called “Police Blotter rapist”, to realize, like you said, that many women DO NOT report rape.
Because of the stigma attached to rape, many women (White, Black, Latina, Native American, Asian, etc.) take this awful incident to their graves.
Blaming the victim for rape is as old as the human race—-not any chance of that ceasing as long as humans exist on this planet. Not as long as women are devalued in comparison to men.
The sexist, denigrating approach of societies around the world towards rape is sick enough.
Now……
…..add in race, and the effect on a woman, especially a Black woman, and the harm from that rape…..escalates.
It is no secret of how vicious White men have been towards Black women (and still are): Welfare Queen [when the biggest welfare queens are White people
….not to mention the nastiest phrases White men have used against Black women for centuries (and still do):
-Nigger bitch
-Lascivious
-and my favourite: UNRAPEABLE
SO….
….It would be very likely that many Black women would not go to the authorities to file rape charges, when this society has vilified and slandered Black women for centuries.
And since the law works more against Black women (when they DO go to court), and Black women rape victims are believed LESS than White women rape vicitms…
….many Black women do not file rape charges, agaqinst either Black men (she’s a traitor to the BC if she does), or White men (“What! That fine upstanding, never has done anything wrong against WOC for over 500 centuries, White man! Mr. Pure as the Driven Snow, White Man!? Committed rape againsta….a….a…Black Woman!? Pshaw! Perish the thought!)
Therefore, as you so aptly stated, dedabets, many women (but,especially Black women) do not report rape.
The rapes we know of (arrested/tried/and convicted)…..are just a small drop in the bucket on this horrofic and filthy crime against the humanity of women.
@Nicole.
Most crimes are INTRA-RACIAL, NOT INTER-RACIAL.
Black-on-black crime is still the norm; White-on-white crime, is still the norm.
As for this:
“However, it’s not just in the United States. The greatest dicators in recent years have emerged in Africa. People like Idi Amin of Uganda, Hastings Kamuzu Banda in Malawi, Mobutu Sese Seko, in Zaire, self-anointed Emperor Bokassa of the Central African Republic, Mohammed Saidi Barre in Somalia, Sani Abacha of Nigeria, Robert Mugabe in Zimbabwe — the list is endless.
“Dictators” have been with America for centuries—–and still are. And for your information, dictators are found ALL around the world, not just in Africa.
America as always been a TERRORIST STATE against her Black citizens—-and still is.
You do not have to shoot a person to be a savage, killer dictator.
Ask George W. Bush. George, Sr., Ronald Reagan, Woodrow Wilson, Andrew Johnson, Rutherford B. Hayes….etc.
You don’t have to lay a hand on a person tear a person to pieces.
That is what America has done to ALL Americans….under the dictatorship of Dubya.
….yet, I don’t see you sobbing any tears over that.
#dedabets:
“And if her attacker is white – even less likely. But ZERO%. I cant believe that no BWs were assulted by WMs. Its impossible to believe.”
Once again, well said.
Only a fool or hater of Black women would state such a lie.
That Black women have NEVER been believed and still are not is one of many reasons that Black women do not report rape as OFTEN as White women do.
NO MATTER WHAT THE RACE OF THE ATTACKER IS.
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I was raped by a hispanic man and did not report it
I was beaten by three black women (broken nose and ribs) and did not report it.
I have been wronged by white people, asian people, black people etc…
I have also been loved and befriended by black, white, hispanic, asian etc…
This world is an evil savage place.
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“I was raped by a hispanic man and did not report it
“I was beaten by three black women (broken nose and ribs) and did not report it.”
Sorry to hear of that. Many people think that a woman who does not report rape is weak, or worse, a liar. But, it takes more strength than one can imagine to continue living and not let such cruelty take you down.
And for people who think that only men can commit wrongs, well, some of the biggest enemies thatwomen can have in this world, have been women.
“This world is an evil savage place.”
I disagree.
The world itself is not an evil place.
Human’s viciousness towards each other is what constitutes evil/maltreatment of one human towards another.
Yes, cruelty is found in all races, just as kindness and compassion is found in all races.
It remains to what an individual human will do in how they treat another human being.
It is called free will.
No one forces anyone to do wrong to another, no matter how many lies the wrongdoer concocts to try to rationalize their wrongdoing with:
“She/he made me do it.” Bullshit.
“I could not help myself.” Bullshit.
“She/he asked for it.” Bullshit.
We all make decisions in this life. What type of decision we make that we can live with, and how it will affect others, separates the weak-willed (who blame their wrongs on others), and the strong-willed (who keep on living and no matter what the human race has thrown them—-nor do not go out of their way to commit more wrongs against another.
Nothing is stopping men from being men; nothing is stopping women from being women. By men and women, I mean really being a man or woman, not those who play-act at being a man or a woman.
The decision is up to that person: either be a woman (or man) and all that comes with it; or be weak like the chaff that is blown about in the wind.
Speaking for myself, I do not consider humans inherently evil; but, I do go by what I see in how humans react to me.
Treat me right, and I will reciprocate.
Treat me wrong, and I have no use for you.
We get back what we all put into this world.
Cast sewage upon the waters, and you will get back sewage; cast flowers upon the water, and you will get flowers back. Not all the time; sometimes you will get back bad treatment even when you do right towards someone. Happens.
Then sometimes you will receive a kindness you did not expect, a soft, word, a gentle gesture—–just when you feel you have been beaten down so much you cannot stand anymore that day.
Happens.
The sooner more humans realize and accept that fact, the less evil there will be in this world.
Then again, it will take thousands of centuries before humans evolve into the supposed “superior” species they claim themselves to be.
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Wow, Dedabets, I’m sorry to hear your pain. You’re a strong woman.
I would pay “Nicole” no mind, they’re doing what many whites do when they confronted with their racism: weakly attemping to flip the script. In this troll’s case, they’re trotting out wack, shaky stats in attempt to deviate from the topic on hand.
Don’t buy into what he/she is trying to do.
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Nicole have a big nerve to come on this blog and make racist comments.
Yes, wm raped Black women, past and present. Alot of BW are reluctant to report rape and sexual assault for fear of being believed by police, courts, and society. It doesn’t matter the race, but esp. nonblack men. Nonblack men have the power of the police, society, courts, money/connections to discredit Black women victims. That’s the REAL elephant in the room.
La Reyna
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@Nicole.
You are either the most stupidest person I have ever encountered on the Internet, or you are in serious need of ECT.
“So Ann’s comment that black men have not attacked WW IS A LIE. As far as what happened a couple hundred years ago, most wm did not rape bw. That is another lie by ANN>
Lie?
You take your lie and cram it down your throat and choke on it.
Back up that lie YOU stated.
I never said that Black men never raped White women during slavery. Here is what I stated:
“That is what the White man created with his lies against Black men as rapists of White women: lies that built up into mythic proportions.
The biggest rapists of all time in this country has been the White man, everyone who knows American history knows that.
The White man knows that.”
WM have lied against BM for centuries; WM have raped BW while lynching BM who had romantic liasons with WW during slavery, Reconstruction and segregation. Historical documentation backs up the facts that WM overwhelmingly raped BW moreso than BM raped WW during those eras.
The rapes of WW by BM were so minimal as to be less than 0.06% of the black population. Any Black man who did rape a WW was rare. Black men knew the results of actually raping a WW, and the cosequences were deadly for that Black man—-and the entire Black community.
To further illustrate your ignorance and stupidity, lynching records prove that BM were lynched more for the following accusations:
-Murder
-Theft
-Looking at a white person the wrong way
-Talking back to a white person (it was called “sassing a white person” back then)
-Wanting to leave a degrading job while working for an abusive white person
Sone of the crimes were downright sadistic:
-Lynched for saying “hello” to a WW
-Lynched for jostling up against a white man’s team of horses
White men lied, and lied and lied on BOTH BM and BW, and I stand by what I stated: the biggest rapist in America has been the WHITE MAN: Rapist of Native American women, Black/African women, Latina women, Asian women—-a world record.
That. . .still. . .stands.
So, when you finish pulling your fist out of your ass after sending it through your digestive system, you apologize for that damned lie.
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You’re a moron Ann. “most stupidest” is grammatically incorrect. Listen ANN, I know you lust after white men because you can’t stop talking about them. It’s too bad WM don’t want your nappy ass. Also, More black women have been killed by and raped by other black people then by white men. You’re just a flat out RACIST. You are not backing up any of your claims. I have cited all of my sources. Let’s talk about the present. BM commit murder and rape and many other crimes at a rate far greater then whites. The white man invented everything that you own: Internet, demcracy, TV, Movies, Radio, Cars, Planes, Trains, anti-biotics. You people are still trying to figure out how to straighten your hair. You people sold each other to Europeans.
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mynameismyname is a gutless coward. I stated facts and you’re trying to spin them. slavery is making a return to America primarily due to African immigrants bringing their traditional customs with them. In the last year alone, several immigrants from Cameroon have been sentenced for keeping other Cameroonians as slaves. In one particularly gruesome case, African immigrants Louisa Satia and Kevin Nanji were sentenced to nine years in prison for beating, raping and torturing their teenage slave. African slavery is becoming so commonplace in America that the Attorney General has set up something called the Trafficking in Persons and Worker Exploitation Task Force to help put a stop to it.
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Nicole – when first you started your response I thought, hmmm – i like the presentation, the logical arguements and use of facts (although I was unsure if they were accurate). But now you expose yourself as a racist. “Straighten her Nappy Hair”. Seriously – when pushed back a little bit you decend to this place. And you wonder why white people are called racist. Its evident your racism is seething just below the surface. And I may share your skin color but that is where the simularities between us ends.
I would enjoy your debate if you had not decended to such a place. Shame on you.
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Ann is crazy. Lie # 1: “It is no secret of how vicious White men have been towards Black women (and still are): Welfare Queen [when the biggest welfare queens are White people.” That is false. There are more WW on welfare because there are about 80 million more ww then bw in America. So of course there will be more ww on welfare. Percentage wise there are many more bw on welfare.
Lie # 2: “America has always been a TERRORIST STATE against her Black citizens—-and still is.” You’re a far left-wing crackpot so I’m not going to argue anymore with you. Talking to you is like talking to a five year old. Unfortunately, as a nation we have become so trapped in the melodrama of black victimization and white “oppression” that we are in danger of losing all sense of reality. If blacks are oppressed in America, why isn’t there a black exodus? Why do all those black Haitians want to come here? To be oppressed?
Most Americans living today (white and otherwise) are the descendants of post-Civil War immigrants, who have no lineal connection to slavery at all. Thanks in part to the efforts of the majority of Americans who were not slaves and who are not black, blacks in America today are the richest and freest blacks on God’s green earth. Richer and freer than black citizens of any black nation in the world. The GNP of black America (as black separatists constantly remind their followers) is so large that it makes the African-American community the 10th most prosperous “nation” in the world. To translate this into individual realities, American blacks on average enjoy per capita incomes in the range of 20 to 50 times those of blacks living in any of the African nations from which they were sold.
The doors of opportunity have been opened and the rules have been made as neutral as they humanly can be to ensure that the competition is fair.
Is there a level playing field? There is no level playing field for anyone. Short of a totalitarian state that controls the families that individuals are born into,there can be none. A free society is inevitably a society of great inequalities, because individuals themselves are greatly unequal. This is a fact that is obvious — or should be — to everyone from the age of five and up.
America did not create black slavery, but ended it.
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dedabets is just another self-loathing white person. There are just as many racist black folks. You didn’t call Ann racist for accusing all white men of being rapists, but I’m racist for calling her hair nappy. Ann brings out the worst in people.
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Ann – re “the world is a evil savage land”
I am unsure if you have seen any of my other responses in the past.
I believe human nature has a basic sickness at its soul. Sin. It exposes itself as racist, sexist, greed, sloath, gluttony etc. All boils down to a self centered ness. A Belief that you are better than others and can there for, steal, rape, murder, oppress – or treat the barista at starbucks like scum – which I wrote about on my blog.
But, I also believe humans have the potential for great love (agape). This I believe comes from God. Agape is un self interested love, self sacrificing love. Agape is always at war with Sin. Therefore – I try to practice agape as much as possible. I do not always succeed.
On other places in this blog I have mentioned that after I was beaten by the three girls for dating a black man….I was very fearful of black women for a time. I was young. It was irrational. I was judging a group of people by the actions of a few. I have grown beyound it.
But at times the evil that men do overwhelms me
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If Ann said all white men are rapists then that is a racist statement yes. I didnt see it – or I would have commented.
I am a self loathing white person? Ridiculous! You have not seen some of my other comments in the past. I am willing to debate with abagond and Ann and others. But I will not decend to name calling and racist remarks. And you shouldnt either. And of course when I point out you were out of line – you call me a name. I see a pattern here.
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“most stupidest” is grammatically incorrect.”
Is that the best you can do, with you paper knife?
“It’s too bad WM don’t want your nappy ass.
“Nappy” is a comment, so thanks.
So, now you are an expert on what WM want?
You’ve spoken to all the WM in America, eh? Great.
I speak of facts. Documentation shows who were the rapists in America. I know many people hate to hear the truth of America’s terroism against her Black citzens, but you cannot bury the truth anymore. Those days are gone.
“Listen ANN, I know you lust after white men because you can’t stop talking about them.”
Now, isn’t that the most stupidest…oops!…my bad, isn’t that a stupid comment. (Better?)
I write of many things, and WM are not the only subjects I dissect.
Although I will admit I do have a thing for MEN (not just because they look like men, but, because when they are men in the truest sense then….hubba, hubba—no matter what their race may be).
“You’re just a flat out RACIST.”
Lame.
When a Black person tells the truth, they are called a racist.
What else do you have in your repertoire?
“I have cited all of my sources. Let’s talk about the present. BM commit murder and rape and many other crimes at a rate far greater then whites.”
Wow, just wow.
How very trollish of you. Here….try this on for size:
Illogical, and irrational fallacy.
The figures would lend themselves to more Whites committing crimes against Blacks since there are more Whites in America than Blacks.
Numbers would put the crimes of white/black more in the area of Whites, than Blacks, since Whites outnumber Blacks in America.
Many of the so-called studies that indicate that interracial rapes involving a Black American male attacking a White female constitute a significant percentage of total rapes reported, while rapes involving a white assailant and black victim are comparatively rare—-should be looked at with a logical evaluation of said rapes.
Statistics such as these perpetuate the kinds of myths and stereotypes about black aggression and white victimization recurring throughout American history (and into the present):
Big-bad Black man attacking White woman, when reality has shown that Big-bad White males have overwhelmingly raped and attacked Black women, and contribute to the persistent belief that the paradigm rape involves a black perpetrator and a white victim.
However, studies have shown that rape is far more intraracial, and less interracial, than has commonly been believed. By looking at population distributions rather than simply at number of reported rapes, Robert O’Brien demonstrated that even though the number of black assailant-white victim rapes is higher than the number of white offender black victim rapes, (and we must also factor in the many Black women who do not report rape when the rapist is a White man) its relative frequency is not.
When one group in a population is smaller than another, members of the smaller group will experience a higher rate of interaction with members of the larger group than vice versa. After taking into account the distributions of whites and blacks in the general population and in the offender population, one can conclude that not only are rapes less interracial than would be expected; by looking at population distributions, they are actually more intraracial than many want to acknowledge.
Thus, the common myth/lie that Black Americans are more likely to rape White people than the reverse is unfounded, thus a fallacy. (1)
Therefore, White men are more likely to commit crimes (embezzlement, arson, murder, kidnapping, and yes!—rape) NUMBERS WISE/POPULATION WISE against whites and blacks, than say, moreso, than a Black woman would commit a crime against a White person (man or woman) NUMBERS WISE/POPULATION WISE.
At any given moment, there are more White men committing crimes in comparison to Black women. White men outnumber Black women 7-to-1, therefore, it is illogical to state that more Blacks commit crime than Whites.
Because Blacks are smaller in numbers to Whites, the figures on crime statistics can be misleading. A smaller population group will always have crime numbers skewed that mislead people to think that there are large numbers of that small group committing ALL the crimes in America.
Such misinformation would be lies and disinformation.
And that is what YOU state.
(1). See Robert M. O’Brien, The Interracial Nature of Violent Crimes: A Reexamination,
92 AMERICAN JOURNAL OF SOCIOLOGY 817–35 (1987).
His theory is founded on the insight
that because there are fewer Black Americans in the population than there are Whites,
the relative frequency of blacks’ interacting with Whites will be higher than Whites’
interacting with Blacks in “asymmetrical” situations like rape. That is, “[a]ll minority
groups, singly or in combination, are more involved in intergroup relations with a group
constituting a majority than the majority group is with them.” Id. at 820 (quoting PETER
M. BLAU, INEQUALITY AND HETEROGENEITY: A PRIMITIVE THEORY OF SOCIAL
STRUCTURE 22- 23 (1977)) (internal quotation marks omitted).
30 “To illustrate, assume that there are 10% blacks and 90% whites in a population of
1,000; then, if there are 10 black-white marriages, 10% . . . of the blacks would be
intermarried, while only 1.1%. . . . of the whites would be intermarried.” Id. at 819. Id at 822.
Robert O’Brien, “The Interracial Nature of Violent Crimes”.
“Internet, demcracy, TV, Movies, Radio, Cars, Planes, Trains, anti-biotics.”
Lame.
Try again.
Also, where is your proof that WM, all by themselves, with no expertise, or help, or knowledge from ANYONE else—-created all these things, hmm?
THe WM did it all, Great Bwana, him no need help, him able to save the world, after almost single-handedly destroying it?
Prove to me that the WM created all these inventions all by his lonesome self.
“You people are still trying to figure out how to straighten your hair.”
You people….straighten hair….
For your information, I wear my hair in its natural state, though I am kinda partial to braids, with an occasional Afro worn just to fluff it out to dazzle men and send them to their knees.
“You people sold each other to Europeans.”
Hey, wait just a dadblamed minute!
“You” people?
Shouldn’t that be “Your people”.
Hey, learn proper grammar, okay?
Your English teacher would be ashamed of you.
AS for the sale of Africans to Europeans, even more lame.
Yes, Africans of some tribes did sell Africans to European slave traders, but, did those Africans twist the European’s arms, make them buy Africans and enslave them?
Your comment is one of the kind I not only consider stupid, but, also weak.
So….
Little Jimmy sees little Kimmy stealing cookies, so he does the same? Mom comes in sees little Jimmy, Jimmy says, “But, Mom, Kimmy did it.”
Little Jimmy gets his ass torn up.
Moral of the story:
NO ONE made whites buy slaves.
They did it for greed, profit, and eventually, for sick racist reasons.
I have to admit,I do get tired of those old forms of tripe verbiage about what the great white man invented and Africans selling other Africans to the poor-put-upon-well-somebody-had-to-buy-those-slaves-so-I guess-we-whites-had-to–buy-them-and-hate-them-for-the-next-four-centuries-what-we-did-to-them.
How’s that?
Grammatical enough for ‘ya?
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“You didn’t call Ann racist for accusing all white men of being rapists, but I’m racist for calling her hair nappy.”
Once again….enough of the lies. I stated that WM men during slavery, Reconstruction, and segregation overwhelmingly raped, sexually coerced, and abused BW. The majority of WM then did not care about the humanity of BW; millions of them went along with the racist/sexist program of mistreating BW. You do not like to hear the truth of America’s history…..well, the truth hurts.
Deal with it.
America did not create black slavery, but ended it.”
Lie.
Slavery itself is as old as the human race….
….but, it took whites/Europeans to turn “American Slavery” into race-based slavery.
“Ann brings out the worst in people.”
Ann (moi) has allegiance to the truth.
Getting mad at me because I speak of American history only shows how much you (Nicole) hate hearing about the sick sadistic perversions this country has done to millions of non-whites at the hands of whites.
As for the effect you say I have on people….
….I am not interested in popularity contests.
When I see a troll I have fun with him (or in this case, her).
Now, run along and stop being a troll, learn to live with the truth, go and sin no more.
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Ann, Your own people had exterminated whole nations and tore families apart for profit before the white folks got their chance at a cut. In fact Africa’s internal slave trade, which did not involve the United States or any European power, not only extended over the entire 500 years but also preceded it by nearly 1,000 years. In the period between 650 and 1600, before any Western involvement, somewhere between 3 million and 10 million Africans were bought by Muslim slavers for use in Saharan societies and in the trade in the Indian Ocean and Red Sea.
By contrast, the enslavement of blacks in the United States lasted 89 years, from 1776 until 1865. The combined slave trade to the British colonies in North America and later to the United States accounted for less than 3 percent of the global trade in African slaves. The total number of slaves imported to North America was 800,000, less than the slave trade to the island of Cuba alone. If the internal African slave trade-which began in the seventh century and persists to this day in the Sudan, Mauritania and other sub-Saharan states-is taken into account, the responsibility of American traders shrinks to a fraction of 1 percent of the slavery problem. African tribes were some of the fiercest defenders of slavery when whites tried to outlaw the practice in the 19th century. Blacks in present-day Ghana rioted against the British as they destroyed the slave ports along Africas western coast. In 1808, the King of Bonny (now Nigeria) told the British: Youre country, however great, can never stop a trade ordained by God himself.
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Okay Nicole, I’m so sick of your racist attitude and lecturing us Blacks about the slave trade. Slavery was universal, but it is America that made slavery race-based, along with attendant abuses and dehumanization. You and your ancestors benefitted from Black oppression through White privilege. You don’t want to acknowledge it, don’t you? Why? because it would question your whole existence and your group’s oppressing various peoples in America’s history.
Read your history books, okay?
La Reyna
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I rember reading somewhere that Americans have one of the worse education systems in the developed world I didnt believe it but haveing read some of the stuff Nicole has written I am starting to believe it.
First of all rape is a teriible thing for any women to suffer whether she be white, black Asain etc Nicloe clearly seems to think that rape is only terrible when the victim is white. It is well documented that the sexual abuse of black women and Native American women during the days of slavey was wide spread the sexual abuse of black women and Native American women where not documented by blacks or Native Americans they were documented mostly by visting Europeans and white Americans and I know Nicloe from reading your comments you quite clearly have a love for the white race so I know you wont dissagree whit the words of fellow whites. The Americans did not end slavery it was actually the Britsh empire who played a major part in ending slavery threw an act in parliament the Americans had to have a civil war to end slavery becuase a large part of the American population wanted to carry on with slavey. What really shows me your lack of education is that you think you can compare African slavery to American slavery which is something only a fool what do its like comparing Antisemitism in Europe with Antisemitism in America the two do not compare. Slavery in African society’s was similar to slavery in the Ancient Greek world it was not race based and there was a great deal of fluidity many former slaves went on to beocme high ranking members of there society’s some even went on to become kings in fact many kings of the Ghana, Mali and Songhai empires were former slaves how many slaves become prisdent of the U.S Nicole?
Then final point I would like to make is your stupid attmept to portray U.S slavery as some type of marvelous thing because it gave blacks all these great opportunities its only the type of mindset that a racist would have. Ethnic minorites in the U.S whether they be black, Asain, Jewish and Hispanics etc have had to fight every inch of the way to get the most basic of rights.
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English rose you are a classic expample of why Europeans are superior in every way to most Americans but my dear your attempt to educate people like Nicole is in vain racism is apart of American culure.
Eveything about American history can be sumed up in one word worse thy treated there slaves worse there Natives worse to deal with this fact Americans often go into denial about certain parts of there history or like Nicole mix half truths with lies. What happned to blacks and the Naitive peoples of the New world was terrible haveing said that I am not responsible for it just because I am white.
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Dont judge us all by the the ignorant trollish behavior of Nicole.
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Nicole:
There’s no need to live down to a base stereotype of a “knuckle-dragging white racist” in order to make an argument. What you say contains a lot of truth, but your histrionics and personal attacks make it almost impossible for a fair-minded person to see.
If you’re really trying to reach someone and not just venting, that is a self-defeating strategy.
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my point nonserviam
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…surfing the web and came across this site,
I found the statement above very interesting, on how white men date fewer black women then expected,
I think it has something to do with fear of the unknown, and about the societal pressure of such a relationship, being that such a reunion is still not widely accepted,
on both frontiers, black and white
and as far as black women holding out for a black man first, that notion is changing as time goes on,
white men are increasingly becoming the object of affection for black women,
tbh, men are really more simple than women would like to believe, some may feel an enormous amount of pressure to date within their own race, but in general, most men really just want someone that they are compatible with, someone who understand their basic needs, and is there for them, in the way that nature intended, as does women, regardless of race factor,
most people just want to be happy
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Hi, I do NOT agree that Nicole’s comment is racist. However, Black male criminals do not preferentially target White females for rape. If anything, they massively deselect them. And they massively overselect Black females.
The notion that Whites must separate themselves from Blacks in order to avoid the depredations of Blacks is wrong. A Black woman is 4-5 times more likely to be raped by a Black man than a White woman is. White women get off easy.
It is Black who bear the brunt of the devastating rape epidemic committed by younger Black males.
If Whites were to separate themselves from Blacks as White nationalists want to do, the entire brunt of the rape wrath of young Black males would be directed against Black females, furthermore, Blacks would experience the entire nightmare of Black crime directed solely against their own.
This is a massive human rights violation for Black females and human rights violations for all Black crime victims.
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The entire post here is absurd. You mention some possible causes, dismiss one of them, and then assert that “racism” on the part of White men must BY DEFAULT be the cause.
Did it ever occur to you that maybe the cause is racism, but not on the part of white men?
Maybe black women, indoctrinated from birth to hate whites and especially white men for perceived wrongs from the distant past, are prejudiced. Maybe their black fathers, brothers, and friends are not accepting of white men. Maybe the racist yet pervasive cultural stereotype that black men make better lovers causes white men to be intimidated by approaching a black woman who would presumably hold them to a higher standard in that regard. All of these possibilities are as valid as your assertion that white “racism” is to blame.
Whatever reasons you want to give, it’s pure speculation. What is the purpose of blaming yet another social reality on white “racism”? Are you trying to shame white men into marrying black women? It’s this kind of pure conjecture that creates hostility between the races.
With respect to your statistic, I have to say it is utterly meaningless. Consider this: if mates were chosen completely at random, blacks would marry outside of their race 85% of the time, while whites would marry outside of their race only 30% of the time. Asians would marry outside of their race 95% of the time.
Of course we know that mates aren’t selected randomly, but to assume that whites marrying outside of their race less frequently is an indicator of “racism” just ignores the reality of the composition of the USA.
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To Anne:
“America did not create black slavery, but ended it.”
Anne’s Response: – “Lie”.
Well no.. although the US certainly did have race based slavery….The Arabs (enslaving sub-Saharan Africans and Europeans) got there first. The sub-Saharan slave trade was picked up by the Portuguese, the Dutch, then the British. When slavery was first introduced to what is now the US it was considered an extension of England, hence it would be accurate to say that the US did not create black slavery. As for ending slavery… well for the US, yes whites were responsible for ending it here. But Haiti was first in the Americas for ending slavery (through revolt), followed by Mexico (by declaration upon independence), Jamaica (through pressure by abolitionists in Britain and through compensation..)
“….but, it took whites/Europeans to turn “American Slavery” into race-based slavery.”
Well hmmmm:
“Export of Indian slaves to international markets
Hindu slaves were an important component of the highly active slave markets of medieval and early modern Central Asia. High demand for skilled slaves, and India’s larger and more advanced textile industry and agricultural production, architecture, demonstrated to its neighbours that skilled labour was abundant in the subcontinent leading to enslavement and export of large number of skilled labour, following successful invasions. After sacking Delhi, Timur enslaved several thousand skilled artisans, presenting many of these slaves to his subordinate elite, although reserving the masons for use in the construction of the Bibi-Khanym Mosque in Samarkand.[57] Young female slaves fetched higher market price than skilled construction slaves, sometimes by 150%.] Because of their identification in Muslim societies as kafirs, “non-believers”, Hindus were especially in demand in the early modern Central Asian slave markets, with Indian Hindu slaves specially mentioned in waqafnamas, and archives and even being owned by Turkic pastoral groups.
Arabia:
Some historians estimate that between 11 and 18 million black African slaves crossed the Red Sea, Indian Ocean, and Sahara Desert between 650 and 1900,[or more than the 9.4 to 14 million Africans brought to the Americas in the Atlantic slave trade.
The Arab slave trade originated before Islam and lasted more than a millennium.Arab traders brought Africans across the Indian Ocean from present-day Kenya, Tanzania, Sudan, western Ethiopia and elsewhere in East Africa to present-day Iraq, Iran, Kuwait, Turkey and other parts of the Middle East and South Asia (mainly Pakistan and India). Arabs supplied African slaves to the Muslim world, which at its peak stretched over three continents from the Atlantic (Morocco, Spain) to India and eastern China.
The Mongols:
In 1382 the Golden Horde under Khan Tokhtamysh sacked Moscow, burning the city and carrying off thousands of inhabitants as slaves. Between 1414 and 1423, some 10,000 eastern European slaves were sold in Venice.[20] Genoese merchants organized the slave trade from the Crimea to Mamluk Egypt. For years the Khanates of Kazan and Astrakhan routinely made raids on Russian principalities for slaves and to plunder towns. Russian chronicles record about 40 raids of Kazan Khans on the Russian territories in the first half of the 16th century.[21] In 1521, the combined forces of Crimean Khan Mehmed Giray and his Kazan allies attacked Moscow and captured thousands of slaves.[22]
In 1441, Haci I Giray declared independence from the Golden Horde and established the Crimean Khanate. For a long time, until the early 18th century, the khanate maintained a massive slave trade with the Ottoman Empire and the Middle East. In a process called the “harvesting of the steppe”, they enslaved many Slavic peasants. About 30 major Tatar raids were recorded into Muscovite territories between 1558-1596.[23] In 1571, the Crimean Tatars attacked and sacked Moscow, burning everything but the Kremlin and taking thousands of captives as slaves.[24] In Crimea, about 75% of the population consisted of slaves.
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To Abagond:
In regards to:
“That last one is dead wrong. Look at the percentage of married Americans in 2006 who were married outside their race:
* 19.5 Asian women
* 8.4 black men
* 7.2 Asian men
* 3.6 black women
* 2.2 white men
* 1.9 white women
“It is white people who stick most to their own kind, not black women – or even Asian men.”
Hmmm.. well that would be a true statement if whites had an equal or lesser percentage of the population than the other groups but since they are a majority, at five times greater in number than the next largest group, on a random basis they would partner up with other whites much more than other groups. The racial/ethnic breakdown for people in the US who are of legal age to marry is roughly 70% white, 12% Black, 12% Latino, 4% Asian, and 1% Multiracial, 1% Native American (these figures don’t exactly represent the current demographics of the US because minorities below the age of 18 (for my calculations.. the legal age to marry..)are a higher percentage of the populace..)
If marriage always occurred in an individuals adult life and was completely random we would expect the white interracial rate to be 30%, the Black rate to be 88%, the Latino rate to be 88%, the Asian rate to be 96%. On that basis let’s look at the interracial marriage rate of Black men, the second highest of all the groups you listed (8.4%) compared to their expected out marriage rate (88%), we see that Black men marry at 9.5% of their expected (random) interracial marriage rate and white men (2.2%) compared to their expected out marriage rate (30%) are at 7.3% of their expected interracial marriage rate and Black women (3.6% actual) versus random rate of (88%) are at 4% of their expected rate of interracial marriage, Asian men at 7.2% interracial marriage versus a potential rate of 96% are at 7.5% of their expected rate of interracial marriage whereas Asian women are at (19.5/96) 20.3% of their expected out marriage rate and white women (1.9/30) are at 6.3% of their expected out marriage.
By the way intraracial marriages among Asians and Latinos are increasing not decreasing with the increased immigration of the last few decades (more choices for partners.. more ethnic enclaves..) whereas interracial marriages between whites and other groups are increasing.
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Well, Uncle Milton, there was a Washington Post article recently that informed that interracial marriages among Asians and “Hispanics” in the U.S. are decreasing, as they grow in numbers in the U.S. Vastly, these two groups marry whites when they marry outside of their race (and in the case of “Hispanics, their ethnicity).
All in all, blacks marry interracially the least, all across the board.
I don’t think that Abagond was trying to “shame” white men about their dismal marriage/dating rates with black women. He was merely exploring why many whites don’t seem to hesitate to marry non-black “minorities” yet rarely marry or even persue interest in black women, when blacks are the most plentiful and visible non-white ethnic group. (Please don’t say “Hispanics are the largest ethnic ‘minority’; Hispanic doesn’t describe race, not when a estimated 4 million+ are classified as black).
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Here’s an interesting observation:
Google “interracial couples” or “interracial marriages”. Click the images tab.
Almost all of the search results are of black/white couples. No white/Asian, or any of the other pairings which are far more common in the U.S. (and around the world).
Similar to the question I posted in Aba’s “biracial” post: do “interracial” couplings only exist in our country’s consciousness when black is in the picture?
I just find it odd that this country’s predominate interracial pairings (white/non-black) are completely absent from internet representation and public discussion.
What does this suggest?
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“Here’s an interesting observation:
Google “interracial couples” or “interracial marriages”. Click the images tab.
…
What does this suggest?”
I don’t find an observation about a google images search result interesting.
What this, and the original post, suggest is that if someone approaches a topic with a preconceived notion, little or no concrete evidence is required to “confirm” their suspicion.
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I just want to add that “Ann”‘s posts above are some of the most racist, sexist, unintelligent, self-righteous ramblings I’ve ever read.
White mens’ arrogance the cause of all the world’s problems, but if we aren’t macho and cavalier about approaching women (with strictly enforced quotas as to their race), then we’re pathetic losers?
Did you join a radical feminazi convent in the 60s and just recently get internet access?
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See, “race realist” delibrately avoided my question. Proves us right. Just another anonymous white internet poster who gets peeved when racial realities get examined. Typical.
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racerealist said:
I just want to add that “Ann”’s posts above are some of the most racist, sexist, unintelligent, self-righteous ramblings I’ve ever read.
White mens’ arrogance the cause of all the world’s problems, but if we aren’t macho and cavalier about approaching women (with strictly enforced quotas as to their race), then we’re pathetic losers?
Did you join a radical feminazi convent in the 60s and just recently get internet access?
Calling people names is not a reasoned argument. It makes your side seem weak, something based on cheap shots and feelings, not facts and reasons.
Ann may be many things but she is not unintelligent and rambling. Hardly. Mynameismyname, for all I know, might be a radical feminazi who just got Internet access, but so what? That in itself does not make what he said wrong.
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I was not trying to shame anyone or even encourage racial hostility with this post. My hopes for this post were not that grand. I was just trying to answer the question in the title.
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Given the history of race in America and given that only one married white man in 400 there is married to a black woman, and that in a place where one woman in eight is black, I find it particularly odd and strange that some commenters expect me to start out by assuming that white men are not racist. Not just assume it but defend it (!!!) by trying to explain away any facts that make them look bad.
This very act of bending over backwards to avoid seeing racism is itself racist.
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I’m not asking you to “defend” the idea that whites are not racist. But when you ASSUME that white men are racist, as you have in this post, you pretty much shut off any debate. All I see in your post is weak-minded conjecture. Assuming that white men are racist and then concluding that white men are racist is not a valid argument.
As for “mynameismyname”, I did answer your question. Your propensity to draw conclusions from a completely superficial and unscientific data sample just shows that people will take even the most trivial evidence and use it to confirm their preconceived notions as FACT.
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Why do so many white folks become so incesed when someone points out their racism? Does it ruin their self-image or touch upon a uncomfortable truth?
Why is “interracial” romance seemingly only an issue when “black” is in the picture? That’s what I was asking.
You brought up the old tired white rationale of how black men are so “into” white women, and I refuted that misconception, hence why I brought up the stats, the Post article and my own observation of varying social attitudes toward race and romance.
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I have no idea what you’re talking about. You’re arguing with your own imagination.
As Uncle Milton and I pointed out, the discrepancy in interracial marriages is not far out of line with what you’d expect given the racial composition of the United States.
As I said before, if you assume all white people are racist then it’s easy to blame every action of every white person on racism. It seems like you will not accept any explanation for this discrepancy except for white racism, so why bother asking the question?
Read my post (#159) where I proposed some alternate explanations. I’m not saying any of these are true, just demonstrating that there are many possible causes and without actually studying the issue you can’t just decide which one of them is the true cause.
I don’t know what your backgrounds are, but you all seem to have a lot of rage and hate towards white people. That makes YOU racist, not us. Saying that white people are racist is, in itself, a racist statement.
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LOL! Saying white people are racist is only saying the truth. It is not racist.
You and Uncle Milton are living in a fantasy world. If white men are not racist, then why do they marry Asian women way more than black women even though there are far more black women? It is not so much interracial marriage that they are against, but marrying black women! And why is that?
The title of this post is not “Are white men racist?” It assumes that they are and proposes that as the reason why so few marry black women – because they do not want black children.
I cannot prove white racism in every post that talks about it. That would be tiresome. Instead I do it here:
Yes, black women are racist too and there is a certain history between black women and white men that affects these relationships, as has been pointed out in some of the comments. But in my experience blacks seem to be far more accepting of black-and-white marriages than white people. And, given the One Drop Rule, that is not at all surprising.
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So it’s okay to generalize about white people based on your “personal experience”? So am I allowed to generalize about blacks and other races based on what I see them do, from my perspective, real or imagined?
It takes two people to get married. If white men and black women are not getting married, why must it be the white man’s fault? Only because in your eyes, EVERYTHING is the white man’s fault.
Your attempt to “prove” that whites are racist is nothing more than “one time I saw a white person do this…” You want so badly to believe that white people are racist, you will twist any kind of trivial evidence to “prove” your claim.
In conclusion, you are a racist, closed-minded idiot. I see no purpose continuing this conversation, since you are a self-righteous delusional paranoid schizophrenic.
By the way I’ve alerted the vast International White Conspiracy to your presence and we’re going to sneak into your house tonight, inject you with AIDS, steal all the technology you just invented, and chain you up on our secret plantation. Yes, we DO exist!
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^^^ Hell yeah! I agree with racerealist!
Abagond, are you some kind of black supremest??? See…the thing you blacks fail to understand is that your comments only fuel white rage and racism towards you. All you talk about is white racism. It gets old after awhile and to the point where it’s very obvious you have a hatred towards whites.
You are ignorant and need to get passed your computer blogging… and become social for once. That means going out and talking to people! Interact with whites, it’ll do you good. Statistics show people isolated from other races are more racist –and I think your isolated from whites.
Oh, and I think I read a comment from a girl above that said white people are fat. I find this hilarious because statistics show most obese people are black. So smoke that shit bitch!
this website is no different than http://www.stormfront.org, a huge white supremest website.
Everybody needs to just calm down and talk about the positive.
Abagond is trying to fuel a race war! IS this what you guys wants??
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mike and racerealist:
You two are pretty ill-mannered, getting on here and calling people idiots and bitches. Are most white people like that or is it just that you two had a bad upbringing?
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To Abagond:
“You and Uncle Milton are living in a fantasy world.”
Here’s what you said: “It is white people who stick most to their own kind, not black women – or even Asian men.”
What I demonstrated is that relative to their populations.. white men are third and white women are fifth in ranking in regards to their out marriage rate. I guess you’ve never taken any courses in statistics… hence your reaction. Apparently you don’t like my reasoning.. run it by a statistician if you don’t believe me.
“If white men are not racist, then why do they marry Asian women way more than black women even though there are far more black women?”
Well that’s a little different than stating “It is white people who stick most to their own kind” isn’t it?
That said…. don’t Black women and Asian women play a role in who they couple with..? In my world at least, it’s women more than men who ultimately choose who they marry. I would definitely say the mutual preference between white males and Asian women is decidedly higher the mutual preference between white men and black women.
I ran through my mind a few famous Black women then searched on google to see who they married or are currently dating. At least for my list, it was all Black men. Beyonce – Jay-Z, Rhianna – Chris Brown, Oprah – Stedman Graham, Jada Pinkett Smith – Will Smith, Angela Bassett – Courtney B. Vance.
When I did the same for American born Asian women, the majority of partners or husbands were white men.
Perhaps a higher percentage of Black women prefer black men over white men than Asian women who prefer Asian men over white men.
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Uncle Milton:
I never took statistics but I know just what you are saying about the numbers. Yes, white men marry outside their race more than black women do when you compare it to the number of available partners from other races. But what you must keep in mind is that most of these white men marrying outside their race are not marrying black women – almost anything but.
Given how there are so many more black women than Asian women, it is like the white men are avoiding black women.
In my, yes, limited experience it is men who choose and pursue women and it is women who accept or reject them. A woman cannot say no to man who never asks or never shows an interest.
If you and racerealist are right, then there should be stories in the white community of black women frequently rejecting white men as suitors.
If white men do not pursue black women because of their stereotypes about them – that black women are hard to get along with, that they prefer black men because they are better in bed, that they hate white men, etc – then the white men in this case are being racist. They are seeing black women as a stereotype instead of as the women that they are. Black women are women first, black second.
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Abagond, I appreciate the change in tone.
“If you and racerealist are right, then there should be stories in the white community of black women frequently rejecting white men as suitors.”
Men (and women) do not (generally speaking) share tales of rejection. No man is going to write a blog post about the girl he DIDN’T take home last weekend. Especially when the rejection is at the surface level, such as a quick brush-off or a woman who is obviously not interested.
Also, there are a great many intermediary steps between initial attraction and marriage. In my earlier post, I pointed out factors that could derail a relationship beyond the initial attraction phase.
My question to you, abagond, since you seem to be more in touch with the black community than I am, is this:
Are black women clamoring for more attention from white men? Is there a glut of old black maids, destined to be alone forever because white men won’t give them the time of day? Because to be honest, when I look in the personals I see a lot more SWFs looking for SBMs than SBFs looking for SWMs.
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Wow, “Racerealist” and “Uncle Milton” who both write eerirly similar musings (hmmmm…), seemed profoundly racist and out of touch.
Who is “you blacks”? You know damn well what Aba was saying was the truth. Yes, black women overwhelmingly prefer black men, that makes sense BUT I don’t believe that black women aggressively reject or avoid white men to the same extent white American men on the whole appear to do them.
I gather, from my own limited experiences and countless second-hand ancedotes that whites just truly find blacks to be subordinate to them. This is especially true when it comes to white men’s “attraction” to black women. It’s like black women don’t exist to them and when they do muster up the “strength” to even just merely compliment a black woman’s beauty, it’s under some type of condition. What does that say?
If posts such as these upset you so much, look within yourself to figure out why. You saw something in yourself that is reflected in what Aba is saying and it’s screwing with you. That’s your own demons, no one elses.
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Mynameismyname, you are the one who is profoundly racist. When you generalize about a group of people based on their race, that is racism. Saying “all white people are racist” is just as racist as saying “all black people are lazy”.
It doesn’t bother me to be called a racist, especially by someone as ignorant as you. I laugh it off, because I know it’s not true. What concerns me is that there are people like you out there, and that you might be spreading your lies to impressionable people who don’t know any better.
Every black person who is taught that all white people are racist is one person who will never want to be friends with me, one person who won’t want to hire me or work with me, one person who will never want to live next door to me, and worst of all one more person spreading these ignorant, racist lies.
Your “research” based on your admittedly limited experience and “second-hand anecdotes” is an utterly indefensible basis on which to draw such broad conclusions. I might as well say “I see blacks murdering people on the news all the time, therefore all blacks must be murderers.”
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I have to agree with racerealist again. You guys are generalizing whites as racist.
Just because whites don’t date blacks is not racist. I think the reason whites date more Asians is because they are similar to us –similar in education and the way they act. People like to date people similar to them.
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Quite so. Higher frequency of white-Asian mating, as compared to white-black one, simply reflects greater commonality between the former two groups.
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Except the evidence doesn’t really bear that out, either. White men are substantially more likely to marry an asian woman than to marry a black woman, while white women are more likely to marry a black man than an asian man.
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I should also add that asian women are significantly more likely to marry a black man than asian men are to marry a black woman.
So this phenomenon is clearly not limited just to white men.
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Sorry to triple post, but I should also add one more thing.
The white male / asian female (and black male / asian female) numbers are obviously inflated because of “war brides” from Korea and Vietnam. That certainly factors into these discrepancies.
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Except the evidence doesn’t really bear that out, either. White men are substantially more likely to marry an asian woman than to marry a black woman, while white women are more likely to marry a black man than an asian man.
Men and women must be attracted to different things, then (surprise).
I’ve always found Sailer’s theory on that a bit strained, but maybe there’s something to it, after all.
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I have my own reasons why so few White men marry Black women. In part it is racism, but in part it is also that White men just find Black women to be way too aggressive for them. On the part of Black women, I think a lot of them think that White men are wimps who are not masculine enough. Black women like Black men, and there is no one more masculine than a Black man. We White guys, macho as we can be, can’t hold a candle to Black guys. So there is a basic incompatibility there that is just not going to work out very well.
Also, of course, White men don’t want half-Black kids. Now, White women don’t mind half-Black kids, as you can see in any White town nowadays where you have some now-single White women who have mulatto kids by Black men that are usually long since gone.
As far as why White women don’t mind mulatto kids but White guys do, I am not so sure. Are White guys more racist than White women?
Understand that in the White male community there is still a big taboo about dating Black women. A lot of guys you had no idea were racist will let you know as soon as they see you with a Black women. If you’re out in public, the snickers from the racists will start. In the White community, White man with Black woman means “he couldn’t get a White woman (no White woman would want him) so he had to get a Black woman instead. It’s regarded that you are a complete loser for being with a Black woman, a total failure with White women.
So these are some of the things that are driving this. Not to mention relatives, etc.
BTW, I am seeing more and more of WM-BF thing these days, especially in urban areas out here in California.
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With Asian males and Black females, you have the most aggressive females (Black females) who of course want the most masculine men. Now Asian guys are probably the least masculine men. That’s going to be dead last for a Black woman. She will think he is ridiculously wimpy. Asian men like submissive Asian women, and they probably find most Black women to be absolutely terrifying.
Asian woman Black man is workable, but we are dealing with extremes. Asian women are extremely feminine and submissive, and Black males are super masculine and aggressive. Black males sure want their polar opposite in a female – an Asian woman, but she will be hard to get. Asian women probably find Black males to be so super aggressive that they are downright terrifying, and a lot of stereotypical Black male behaviors are going to be seen as so ultra masculine that Asian women will regard them as uncivilized.
Also, Asian society is incredibly racist against Blacks, way way way worse than White society. An Asian woman going for a Black man is the lowest of the low, and her whole people will come down on her something awful.
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I didn’t know black men were more masculine than white men? Are you kidding me? The only reason black people are regarded as tough is because of “Rap” and “Hip-Hop” culture, not to mention the gang image that goes along with it.
Turn back the clock about 20 years ago, before rap music was invented, and you had blacks like Steve Urkel who were wimpier than Asians. A good example of this is R-kelly. If you noticed in his video “I Believe I Can Fly” he looked like a wimp. Now, he has a pierced ear, has braids, dresses more thuggish and tries to act like he’s hard.
Rap music has instilled this image into about 95% of blacks. But say for example, that rap music was never created, and black people became obsessed with jazz music, then today they wouldn’t be going around trying act all gangster and masculine.
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The thing blacks don’t understand is that Asians and Mexicans might be more racist than whites are towards blacks.
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Robert Lindsay, where the hell do you get off generalizing about blacks, whites, and asians the way you do?
Maybe in your community the things you say hold true, but you must be a complete egomaniac to think that your observations are relevant to the entire United States.
As I say whenever someone tries to generalize about my race, sex, or social class: Speak for yourself.
A wise man knows that the world is a lot bigger than his experience. Anyone who attempts to make a generalization about 200 million people is guilty of unconscionable arrogance.
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“Men and women must be attracted to different things, then (surprise).”
YOU were the one who posited that whites and asians were attracted to each other because of similarities. Don’t act condescending when the numbers prove you wrong.
We all know that people of different races tend to have certain different traits. Is it racist for people to be more or less attracted to certain combinations of those traits?
In order to eliminate potentially “racist” preferences, we’d have to eliminate “looks” and physical characteristics entirely from the matrix of attraction. Does anyone here think that’s reasonable, or even desirable?
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The stereotype of black men as hypermasculine did not start with hip hop or Steve Sailer. It goes back to at least the 1870s. Jim Crow laws were built on the idea that freed black men would rape white women unless they were kept in line.
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So I take it then that you traveled back in time and read the minds of the men who enacted those laws?
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No, maybe I read the debates in Congress where they tried to outlaw lynching.
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So every Congressman was quoted in said debates?
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Besides, the point is irrelevant. “Jim Crow” was not a single bill passed at a single moment in time.
And even if it were, it wouldn’t have much salience to the topic of the white/black marriage disparity.
Are you conceding that your original post was complete conjecture with no basis and reality, and in fact the dispary might have nothing to do with “white male racism” at all?
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Robert Lindsay said:
Asian woman Black man is workable, but we are dealing with extremes. Asian women are extremely feminine and submissive, and Black males are super masculine and aggressive. Black males sure want their polar opposite in a female – an Asian woman, but she will be hard to get. Asian women probably find Black males to be so super aggressive that they are downright terrifying, and a lot of stereotypical Black male behaviors are going to be seen as so ultra masculine that Asian women will regard them as uncivilized.
Well, maybe black men are just not that into Asian women like some white men are. Maybe they do not see them as “extremely feminine”. Maybe black men and Asian women do not see each other through a white man’s point of view, through his stereotypes of them.
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Or maybe you should look at the statistics, which show that asian women are five times more likely to marry a black man than asian men are to marry a black woman.
That seems to conform to the “white man’s stereotypes” pretty well.
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From what I can tell, black (regardless of nationality), male and female, don’t seem to have much interest, romantic or otherwise, in East Asians. So there goes that.
Yet, I’m still shaking my head at Robert Lindsay’s shamelessly bigoted, hyper-stereotypical and out-of-touch commentary. Wow. The internet really brings ’em out, huh? LOL/
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Black men as hypermasculine and Asian women as ultrafeminine is a white male point of view based on their own peculiar racist fears and fantasies.
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mynameismyname said:
From what I can tell, black (regardless of nationality), male and female, don’t seem to have much interest, romantic or otherwise, in East Asians. So there goes that.
I agree with that.
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Mynameismyname and Abagond, thanks for proving your own ignorance.
“From what you can tell”, blacks aren’t interested in East Asians.
And yet, there are 34,000 BM/AW couples compared to 286,000 BM/WW couples. Considering that there are less than 1/10 as many asians as whites in this country, this suggests that proportionally asian women are more likely to marry a black man than white women are.
So, “from what you can tell” you are wrong, absolutely wrong, and I hope this teaches to you look beyond your own biased viewpoints and use objective measures when you try to figure out what’s really going on.
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By the way, stand-up job avoiding any kind of intelligent discussion of the topic. There have been at least a dozen points raised that severely call into question the validity of the original post, and neither of you have responded to a single one of them.
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The only reason blacks in the U.S. would be seen as hyper-masculine has to do with the fact that like 98% of blacks living in the U.S. came from slaves. When whites bought slaves from Africa, they only bought the biggest and strongest ones. The majority of blacks are smaller and not so masculine. But most blacks in U.S. are big because they came from a line of the strongest an biggest slaves brought from Africa.
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Black males are hypermasculine everywhere on Earth that the exist. And we have the testosterone stats and crime stats to give some added weight to that. Furthermore, physically, they are superdeveloped and very strong, much stronger than other men and better physically.
This came out through natural selection in Africa about 6000 years ago when Blacks evolved from Bushmen and Pygmies.
Papuans also have high testosterone. Black and Papuan males have by far the highest testosterone on Earth, so this adds truth to the “stereotype”.
They were a primitive agricultural society that evolved polygamy where the chief got most all the women and the rest of the guys got few to none. That’s how it works in Papua too. This evolved due to primitive agriculture, whereby the women did not need a man to support them as in hunter gatherer societies. The world over, agriculturalists have higher testosterone than hunter gatherers. Since the women are choosy, the men compete tremendously for the women and one guy, the biggest strongest etc. gets most or all the women and his genes pass on.
Repeat: Black males are super masculine in the Caribbean, Latin America, Africa, Europe, everywhere. It’s not some slave thing.
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Cool, I’m a bigot? Right on. Is that a racist? If someone is a bigot, they are a racist, right? Dang I hope so. I love being called racist.
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Nahhh, god damn vikings are more masuline than the bushmen. It all depends where your from. Have you ever seen bushmen on t.v.? They are more feminine than any other race. Also, I am right about the fact that slave capturers took the strongest and biggest blacks from Africa…so their genes carried over. This is like taking genes from vikings and forming a super race of huge masculine people.
The thing I find funny too is… I have seen triple as much gay blacks than whites.
If you mean hyperfeminine blacks, than yes, there are definitely more than white!
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I just did a post about race and dating that addresses some of the questions raised above:
Some points that can be drawn from it:
1. Asian women do not go for black men (even though it is a match made in Sailerian and Lindsayan heaven) because they are racist against them.
2. White men do not think Asian women are better looking than other women.
3. Men are dogs so it is women who wind up making the decision of who dates who.
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racerealist:
Mynameismyname and I told you that blacks do not seem to have much romantic interest in East Asians. You called us ignorant for saying that.
In New York I do see black men with East Asian women, but it is rare. I cannot remember if I ever saw a black woman with an East Asian man. I think maybe once I saw it.
In America only one married black man in 127 is married to an Asian. Among black women it is one in 635.
I think this counts as “don’t seem to have much interest”.
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Robert Lindsay said:
Repeat: Black males are super masculine in the Caribbean
What do you mean by “super masculine”? If I met someone who was super masculine, how would I know? Are you submasculine? And if not why not since you apparently lack the strength, testoterone and development of black men?
Where are you getting all this from? What is your source?
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racerealist said:
By the way, stand-up job avoiding any kind of intelligent discussion of the topic. There have been at least a dozen points raised that severely call into question the validity of the original post, and neither of you have responded to a single one of them.
This is an interesting comment coming from you. Sometimes you seem serious and make good points and seem to think for yourself but at other times you call people names, make cheap shots and seem to be more concerned about protecting your white self-image than reaching the truth.
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in your other post abagond, you say 95% of whites are racist. Do you really feel every white is out to get you?
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Mike, Abagond is not Black. He is a White male.
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Are you sure? I think he is black. I feel as if he refers to himself as black
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Black males have elevated testosterone until age 33. After that, it’s equal, then it goes down. Go look it up. Black females too. They also have more testosterone in their bodies and give it to Black males in the womb.
It’s pretty obvious looking at all the Black male athletes that Blacks are in general superior when it comes to things like that. I believe it’s documented that they tend to have better upper body strength too.
There’s nothing controversial about any of this.
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Bushmen are not very masculine at all, in fact, they are sort of feminine. But the Negro is a completely different race than the Pygmy or the Bushmen. He came from them 6-12,000 years ago in the Sahel, but he’s quite different.
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Nope, he’s a White man married to a Black woman and they have some mulatto kids. He doesn’t usually talk about it much, but all the regulars on the board know this. You can ask him if you want.
For a while there, I thought he was Black too, but I think I thought he was a Black woman, lol. I finally poked around the blog a bit after some confusing posts and put it all together.
He’s a really strong anti-racist and he’s very pro-Black, so that’s why you think he’s Black. He’s just a “White Negro” like in Mailer’s essay. Or like Lou Reed’s song, “I Want To Be Black.”
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Well, all I know is that I’ve met more gay blacks than white, ones carrying around purses –anything but more masculine. I think black and white athletes are equal. It’s just that in America they come from the strongest and biggest slaves. I watch discovery channel all the time from tribes in Africa and their all average size, skinny, or obese –and a few big ones.
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Wow, “Mike” and “Race Realist” must be trolls. No one would ever be that over-the-top in reality. Blacks are mentally inferior, but physically superior? Wow, that’s some straight plantation mentality. How flat-out ignorant. Do yourselves a favor: Get off the computer, get a clue and just stop. You’re really making your “race” look really bad. You both come off as sterotypically ignorant, sheltered white males. It’s not a good look.
The term “mulatto” is archaic and actually quite offensive if you know its origins. The fact that you casually use it, lets it be known that you view blacks as being beneath you, just as your painfully stupid commentary makes that even clearer.
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blah, blah, blah, mynameisnyname shut the fuck up kiddo. That’s the thing I find funny with little nerdy-ass kids like you…who take comments way to seriously. IT DOESN’T make me a racist because were debating whether blacks are more masculine or not.
OMG, I’m a racist cuz I’m debating whether BLACKS or WHITES go to the movies more.
OMG, I’m a racist because I’m debating whether BLACKS or WHITES like sports more!
OMG, I’m a racist because I’m debating whether BLACKS or WHITES find the government a failure!
OMG, I’m a racist because I’m debating whether BLACKS or WHITES like Mariah Carey better!
Kid, no your place before you speak out of line. It’ll do you good bud, cuz one day your gonna get your ass kicked by the wrong person. You have no defense…so I expect no more comments from you.
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I wasn’t aware that mulatto was a PC dirty word in the US. It’s widely used in Latin America and the Caribbean, I think.
The term “mulatto” is archaic and actually quite offensive if you know its origins. The fact that you casually use it, lets it be known that you view blacks as being beneath you,
Actually, I thought that was an ok term to use. We really do need a word for folks like Obama. We have mestizo and the Hispanics don’t mind. What I think is offensive is that Blacks try to claim as Black anyone with a few drops of Black in them. Almost as bad as Whites saying half-Blacks, 1/3 Blacks and 1/4 Blacks are “Black.” Mulatto (Or come up with a better word?) is a much better description.
I actually consider myself an anti-racist. I’m against prejudice and discrimination, personally and societal, against individuals and groups.
But one of the problems with Blacks, so amptly displayed here by mynameismyname, is that for Blacks, *everything* is offensive. Everything, everything, everything, everything. They’re always getting pissed off, always getting insulted, always crying racism, and always calling Whites racist.
I would say that that right there probably generates tons of bad feelings in Whites towards Blacks, and you know what? I don’t blame them.
Why like a group of people who act like foot stomping crybabies who spew invective all the time? Folks who act that way in my life get run out pretty quick.
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We really do need a word for folks like Obama.
I think Barack Obama, President of the USA does just fine to identify him. Although I’m sure he fits under many other signifiers such as “father”, “husband”, “future dog owner”, “US resident”, “blackberry addict” etc etc etc
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My Oxford dictionary from 2006 says “mulatto” is offensive. Just so you know.
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A dictionary doesn’t determine anything. A word is only offensive if the person allows it to be offensive. Any word could be described as offensive. You could say the word “wiener” is offensive if you wanted too.
Abagond are you black,white,male, or female btw?
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On one thing do both Blacks and White racists agree – that Obama, a man who is 1/2 Black and 1/2 White, is actually “Black.” I.e., 100% Black. He’s just as White as he is Black, so why can’t we say he’s White just as easily as we say he’s Black? His Whiteness, 50% of his being, is elided and erased by one-drop rule White bigots and greedy Blacks either to see him as 100% Black and 0% White.
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Abagond, are you tired of “Mike”, “Race Realist” and “Robert Lindsey”? I honestly think they’re trying to get a rise out of us. They can’t be serious.
Also, who created the “one drop rule”? Who created “black” and “white”? Damn sure not people of African descent. So, no blacks aren’t trying to “claim” anyone. Most of the interracial offspring that I’ve known, who were black/non-black, identified themselves as “black”, so’s claiming who? Please, man, quit while you’re ahead. Aba, maybe you should try to ban them or delete their comments. They’re annoying as hell.
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mike and Robert Lindsay:
The two of you come here and say all kinds of racist stuff about blacks and then get upset when blacks are offended! Please. Get a clue.
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mynameismyname: I was this close to marking mike as spam but I thought it was better if people saw the truth about him – and the other two. Why should I make them look nicer than they are? It is an education for the rest of us.
But I may have to rethink my comment policy somewhat. It is far more liberal than the one at Racialicious, Stuff White People Do or even at Robert Lindsay’s own blog. I want to be fair: I do not want to delete comments simply because they make me angry.
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Also, who created the “one drop rule”?
The white slave owners did, to create more slaves for themselves and to protect their “white” families from having to share their privilege (racial, monetary and FREEDOM). Did you know it was also illegal and punishable by law to teach African people to read and write?
Gee, mynameismyname… for someone who seems to jump to conclusions you seem pretty judgemental on other people.
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Alright, shit… Ill leave this website then! Ill get my friends to hack this site and shut it down. My brother knows a top-notch hacker. Ya’ll some nerds though who are just mad at me, racerealist, and rob for expressing our views!
GET THIS THROUGH YOUR UGLY SKULLS. There is a difference between a fustrated white and racist! Were not racists who hate other races because of their skin color. Were frustrated whites! Were mad at how everyone always blames white people for their problems without taking responsibility for themselves. Were mad how people call Obama a black president, as if in their favor, even though he’s a white too. Were mad about racist crimes in South Africa where white farmers an being brutally murdered and raped because of their skin color! That’s what were mad about! That doesn’t make us a racist! So please shut the fuck up and get life abagond and mynameismynam!
But wait! Nobody considers Abagond racist for his comment on Asians?
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I am racist. I never said otherwise. I also corrected the statement in question. (I said something like, “Asians can come to America and be as racist as everyone else in two months”. I changed that to “Some Asians…”).
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That’s it. I’m gonna see if I can have this website shut down by the end of the week. Hopefully, I can… No guarantees though
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That will be nice while letting Robert Lindsay and racerealist go on running their blogs.
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… and after letting you say whatever you wanted on my blog. Lindsay, I know, would not have been so tolerant of your antics.
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I don’t think I would shut it down permantly…only every couple of days
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atleast that’s the one thing you let us do on this website…allow us to say anything for the most part
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You call me racist? Why? Man that’s painful.
You all keep it up and no one will want to hire you, be around you, much less date and marry you. Why won’t White men date Black women? Look at the ones on this site. Ee gads. I’m terrified already, and I don’t scare easy.
You elide some of the most essential aspects of the one-drop rule. As I recall, Whites barely even thought Blacks were human. Black genes, transmitted to the mixed race offspring of Whites and Blacks, were thought to be enormously detrimental to beauty, intelligence, foresight, I’m not sure what else.
There was a large element of let’s preserve the purity of the White race from contamination by Blacks thing going on here.
It is nevertheless interesting that around New Orleans especially many wealthy White men had quadroon and octaroon mistresses kept in homes. They often appeared with them in public in polite society and they were actually quite accepted. But they could not marry them and the women may have been restricted by Jim Crow.
Of course, this fact makes White folks about 1% less pure evil in your book, so the angry Black ladies and their White cheerleader abagond here of course would never mention this.
abagond is correct. I can be a real jerk about my comments policy and I have banned many commenters.
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American Renaissance is not RR’s blog. It’s a huge White nationalist site run by Jared Taylor. I’m surprised you have not heard of it.
In what way are you racist, abagond?
Oh Hell, I may as well be racist too, what the heck? If what I’m saying is racist, fine, I’m a racist, no problem.
But I will try not to use mulatto. I just checked with a good friend, and she confirmed it’s offensive. I don’t use offensive terms out of respect for the grievance collectors who hoard such terms.
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Rob is that your real pic on side?
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cuz how do you make account to do that?
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Robert Lindsay:
In point of fact I have talked about race mixing in New Orleans before the civil war:
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Robert Lindsay, mike and racerealist:
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Aba,
I really should stop entertaining their BS but are these three “guys” for real? Like, seriously? They’re pulling our legs, right? Trying to be outrageous?
Lindsay, you should be a comedy writer because your liberal, ignorant white racist act is just too on-point. You’re either trying to be funny, or you’re really whacked.
Why do whites get so infuriated when they’re called racists? Really? Why does it strike such a nerve that they become belligerent, defensive and downright nasty when conforted with their bigotry?
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Because their self-image is built on the idea that they are not racist. It is a part of being a colour-blind racist. They want to think they are not racist but a part of them deep down knows that they are.
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I’m not asking for much except for everyboy to admit black people can be just as racist as whites. That’s it.
1.) Reverend Wright
2.) The racial murder and rape against white farmers in South Africa.
3.) The racist guy who wants to exterminate all whites. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k0FI82DOuxE
4.)Hannity Colmes– also wants to exterminate whites http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k0FI82DOuxE
5.) plus the Nation of Islam and all black churches.
Are you saying that blacks are less racist?
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Hmmm, yes, that is my real pic. I don’t know. I’m on WordPress you know, and I think WordPress asked me what kind of Avatar I wanted. It said I could upload a pic, so I did it and wa-la, my pic comes with comments.
You don’t have a WordPress blog, but I think you can use Gravatar to set that up. I think WordPress is using Gravatar to do that.
http://www.gravatar.com
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Also, I encourage everybody on this site to watch this youtube video. This will prove me,racerealist, and robs point of view. Watch it till the end. You will strictly hear the black guy at the end admit there is a double-standard today, and that the tides have turned, and that all whites are considered racist when in reality their frustrated with militant blacks.
These video couldn’t have spoken any better for me. Watch it
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mynameismyname:
I think they are at least 80% serious in what they say.
It seems like Lindsay does not get how what he is saying is racist, so I think he is not putting us on. He also saw no reason why we should be upset with him. I think he is 95% serious.
Mike I think is 75% serious, racerealist 60%. That is my guess. They can speak for themselves.
Nonserviam, if you remember him, knew just how racist he was being, which buttons he was pressing, so much so that I thought maybe he was a rich black kid or something. The Three Musketeers, however, seem to be far less aware, like they are sheltered white men.
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Huh? Why am I racist? What did I say that’s racist so far. You mean about races being different as far as strength, testosterone, masculinity, femininity? Sure, that’s not racism to me. That’s just science. I’m a race realist. The races are different. I don’t agree race realism is racism, but obviously in our society it is.
It hurts because I am an anti-racist, and I really really White racism and White racists, and I’m not wild about non-White racism either. But the people who make me mad are out and out obvious virulent bigots.
Maybe we have some different definitions going on here. I do really hate PC and the way it has distorted and ruined the word “racist” to conflate a bunch of really evil and nasty people with some guy who says, “Damn, Blacks are better at basketball!” You’re overabusing the term in a grotesque and awful way just like the Jews abused anti-Semitism by calling half the world an anti-Semite. At some point if the brainwashing ever wears off, people just might act like you’re the boy who cried wolf and start ignoring the real deal.
Few more things. Avoidance is not racism. Look at figures. The Black crime rate is 8X the White rate. That’s all you need to know when Whites are deciding what kind of city they want to live in and raise their kids in. Nothing racist about White Flight. It’s just reasonable self-protection. If Blacks hate White Flight so much, how’s abouts they quit committing so much crime?
Stereotyping isn’t necessarily racism either. If some White guy says he won’t date Black chicks because they don’t turn him on, or he finds their anger and aggression (see evidence on these pages) to be a massive turnoff, what’s so racist about that? No one has to go out with anyone. If that’s the way he sees Black women, who’s to deny that that’s a real representation of the reality he has experienced?
I know Whites who want to get right of all civil rights laws and anti-discrimination laws, who will not even speak to an Hispanic or Black person for any reason, who want to carve up the US into separate White and Black states, Jesus Christ man. That’s the real racism that you ought to be concerned about, not some guy imitating Bill Cosby.
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Yeah Mike, I don’t worry too much about that radical Black who said “exterminate Whites” or whatever. I’m just not concerned with that. I don’t really care what Blacks think all that much. I’m White and I’m more concerned with my own people.
I used to teach in Black schools (Never again! Truly horrible!) for years and now and again I would get Blacks saying how they were better or trying to insult me for being White. Honestly, it really does not bother me when a Black says that because, how do I say this?
I am a proud White man and I certainly do not think that we Whites are inferior or that Blacks are superior! So when minorities come off like that, it’s laughable.
We should not bother with these silly Black radical clowns like Kambon, Mike. In many ways, Blacks in the US on average do not measure up or shall we say fail or have worse metrics on a number of indices. You’ve all read the figures.
I figure this is mostly Black folks’ own damn fault (or possibly they can’t even help it – I’m not sure), but most Blacks clearly don’t agree. So they see all these Black problems and relative shortcomings and failures and they only thing they can think of is, “Da White man did dis to our people!”
So that’s the source of all their rage. It’s mostly caused by Blacks themselves, but that’s too painful to admit, so they deny and project it all onto us and blame us.
Whites in America have been kinder to Blacks in the past 40 years or so than probably anyone else on Earth. They should be grateful and thank us for our kindness. I really doubt if they would reciprocate if the numbers were turned upside down.
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Albagond, I feel as if you lack an ability to comprehend things.
WATCH THIS WHOLE VIDEO TO THE VERY END. In the last seconds he encourages whites to speak out and be more aggressive against blacks because of double-standards placed on whites. LISTEN TO THE VERY END AND THEN RESPOND BACK.
This is what I’m trying to get it. Why can’t you just admit that we might actually be right?
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To mynameismyname who said:
““Uncle Milton” who both write eerirly similar musings (hmmmm…), …..
It’s my understanding that most bloggers can ban someone by their ip address. If this is the case then it would be clear to Abagond at least that I am not “race realist”. If you review my posts I am not calling people racists as he is.
“seemed profoundly racist and out of touch.”
May I ask what specifically you found racist and out of touch with my posts..? My statistical analysis..? Because I disagreed with some of Ann’s version of history..? (Which I back up with quotes from Wikipedia (admittedly some of Wikipedia can be flawed but what I posted jibbed with other sources..)
Or because I said: “don’t Black women and Asian women play a role in who they couple with..? In my world at least, it’s women more than men who ultimately choose who they marry. I would definitely say the mutual preference between white males and Asian women is decidedly higher the mutual preference between white men and black women.”
Ironically Abagond posted a study today which (in his words) says:
3. Men are dogs so it is women who wind up making the decision of who dates who.
My comment would be: who is more likely to stick with you (if you are a woman or a gay man) your dog or a man?
Quit insulting canines Abagond.. it’s unseemly.
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I can see the IP addresses of commenters. I can confirm that Uncle Milton and racerealist live nowhere near each other.
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I agree with you Robert. One thing I find hilarious is Sean Hannity. He’s kind of like me and you. Listen to him attack these racists on his show…
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mike said:
Albagond, I feel as if you lack an ability to comprehend things.
WATCH THIS WHOLE VIDEO TO THE VERY END. In the last seconds he encourages whites to speak out and be more aggressive against blacks because of double-standards placed on whites. LISTEN TO THE VERY END AND THEN RESPOND BACK.
This is what I’m trying to get it. Why can’t you just admit that we might actually be right?
He says whites should speak out more. I agree with that. Whites do not talk about race enough, at least not in public, not in mixed company.
But for that to work they must take what blacks say seriously, which they often do not. See, for example, Lindsay’s comment #223 about mynameismyname overreacting:
But one of the problems with Blacks, so amptly displayed here by mynameismyname, is that for Blacks, *everything* is offensive. Everything, everything, everything, everything. They’re always getting pissed off, always getting insulted, always crying racism, and always calling Whites racist.
I hear that all the time. It is a way of dismissing what blacks say.
Also whites should understand that much of what comes out of their own mouth will sound racist to blacks. That is to be expected. But instead of getting upset, shutting up, being dishonest or speaking with political correctness, they should use it as a learning experience: Why was it racist? What made it racist? Only then will they begin to understand how racism shapes their thinking and only then can there be change.
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I found this treatment of Obama and Old Glory in Brazil enlightening:
Rob, you’ll like it.
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A comment of mike’s that got caught in my spam filter:
I’m not asking for much except for everyboy to admit black people can be just as racist as whites. That’s it.
1.) Reverend Wright
2.) The racial murder and rape against white farmers in South Africa.
3.) The racist guy who wants to exterminate all whites. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k0FI82DOuxE
4.)Hannity Colmes– also wants to exterminate whites http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k0FI82DOuxE
5.) plus the Nation of Islam and all black churches.
Are you saying that blacks are less racist?
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Blacks are racist too but maybe not in the way you are thinking:
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I gather, from my own limited experiences and countless second-hand ancedotes that whites just truly find blacks to be subordinate to them. This is especially true when it comes to white men’s “attraction” to black women. It’s like black women don’t exist to them and when they do muster up the “strength” to even just merely compliment a black woman’s beauty, it’s under some type of condition.
****************************************
I agree with mynameismy name because that has been my observation as well and pretty much it in a nutshell. There is no need to use rationalizations and excuses and stats and supposed eugenic posturing as to why it is. Most white men, if they even think of Black women at all, do not see us as even remotely human, thus why would they see Black women as a viable dating/mating option. They cannot see our humanity therefore our presence and feminity are nullified into something that is usually ugly and animalistic.
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To Suzy who wrote:
For most African Americans it is their great grandfather who may have experienced slavery, but my grandfather was 20-years older than my grandmother; therefore, is why I had a grand parent who had actually been a slave. My grandfather looked White, including blond silky straight hair and not having a birth certificate, he said he estimates he was the age of eight or ten years old when slavery was abolished and he was thus set free, later he moved up North. He died when I was about age-11 and he often spoke about the “bucks” on the plantation.
he was the age of eight or ten years old when slavery was abolished
Which means he would have been born between 1855 and 1857.
but my grandfather was 20-years older than my grandmother
Which means she would have been born between 1875 and 1877. If you mother was 50 (absent modern fertility and in vitro fertilization a rare event..) you would have been born in 1927 (or earlier if your mother was younger when you were born..)
Does this mean you are 82 or older..?
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I don’t know why people keep trying to lump me in with white supremacists. I assume it’s my name.
All I ever said on this –
1. The statistics quoted above do not indicate that the marriage rates between white men and black women significantly differ from the norm. Even if they did, it would not be fair to blame the entire discrepancy on white men. There are dozens of other possible reasons, many of which relate to the black woman’s CHOICE in the matter.
2. It is racist to generalize about a group of people based on their race – i.e. “All white people are racist” or even “Most white people are racist”. Especially when you have nothing to back it up but a few personal anecdotes.
One thing I’d like to respond to:
“Mynameismyname and I told you that blacks do not seem to have much romantic interest in East Asians. You called us ignorant for saying that.”
The reason I called you ignorant is because the statistics (which I quoted) indicate exactly the opposite of what you claim. If I told you the sky is brown, and you looked up and saw it was blue, wouldn’t you call me ignorant?
Oh sorry, I forgot. No facts allowed here. This space is reserved for baseless conjecture and unfounded accusations of racism.
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Racerealist/Robert Lindsay/mike –
Main topic question:
Would you consider the possibility of dating or marrying a Black woman? A Black African woman? Why? Why not?
Do you find (have you ever found) Black women attractive?
Let’s take a break from the general arguments and hear about your dating preferences.
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Re:suzy
Doh Suzy’s mom could have been 40 when she was born and her gradma 40 when her mother was making her about 57 which would have made her grandpa 100 when he passed on.
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I have dated 5 or 6 Black women in my life. I had a Black gf for a year or so and we were talking about marriage.
Some Black women look really really great! Even some dark ones like the dark Black woman in the pic on this page. She is beautiful man!
I’ve had some negative experiences with the Black women I dated such that I am not sure if I would even want to do it anymore. They were the greediest, most cynical, most money-hungry women I have ever been with, putting most White women to shame. They were very cynical about men, thought they were mostly dogs, and had the attitude of trade sex to milk men of every last nickel they have. Further, I do think that Black women like really masculine guys (like Black men) and they tend to think we White guys are wimps at best or gay at worst. I had to deal with some of that with some of those Black women and I didn’t appreciate it.
Truth is, Black women are so aggressive that they just scare me. But I’m kind of a dog when it comes to women, so you never know, I might go for a Black woman again…
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At one point, I found black girls really attractive! I used to watch BET After Hours and watch all the beautiful black women.
And to date, I’ve had three black girls ask me out and several more flirt with me. The black girls love me! I remember my friend and I would always talk about dating black girls. We were obsessed. At one point we like them better than white girls. But then I slowly came out of it for some reason.
The black girls I find attractive today are the ones that act whiter. For example, I find Rhianna attractive. Also, black rocker girls are really attractive too, like Little Jackie. Their so much different from the ones in Detroit who are masculine and so aggressive. If more black girls acted like Rhianna and Little Jackie, I think white men would go after them alot more!
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Mike, I just Googled both of those women, Rhianna and Little Jackie. Those are some awfully light-skinned Black women. I suspect that Little Jackie is actually about as mixed race as Obama is.
I will go for darker ones too, like that babe at the top of the page.
I even like full lips, big boobs and a big butt that a lot of them have.
If there was a Black woman that acted really submissive and feminine, I could go for her. Aggressive Black women just scare the living Hell out of me. Forget it. I’ve had enough bitches for one lifetime.
I think I need to watch BET sometime. I’m really into hot Black chicks. Even if only to enjoy the scenery.
There’s a Black lady that’s been hanging around my place a lot. She’s not attractive at all, plus she 56 yrs old, plus she’s really way too ghetto, plus she owes me $20 and she isn’t ever going to pay me back.
What I don’t like is “ghetto” behavior. Blacks don’t really evenly divide into “assimilated – middle class” or whatever euphemism there is for “acts like a human being” and “ghetto” which to me means “acts like an animal. A lot of them just kind of float in between.
Where I live, a lot of the Hispanics and even a lot of the Whites act pretty “ghetto” too.
In a word, “ghetto” is just general what I consider to be low morals behavior. Unreliable, undependable, rude, doesn’t keep promises, steals, borrows money and never returns it, a using – manipulative – what can I get off you mindset.
That Black lady walks into my apartment and demands wine immediately, then she starts trying to get me to “give” her various things, furniture, pictures on the wall, etc. She tells me to change the station on the radio. She’s just rude. Former schoolteacher too.
That behavior just so sucks, excuse me. I’m a human, not an animal. If you’re going to associate with me, you need to act civilized.
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Wow, the ignorance keeps coming with these “guys”! Unbelieveable.
So, black women are aggressive and unlady like. Wow. Yeah, because white women are so pure and feminime. Gimme a friggin’ break.
The “dark” ones? So, you like to put blacks in color codes? “Even the dark ones are pretty”? Why does it matter what shade a black person is? Are the so-called “dark” ones NOT supposed to be nice looking? If a black person is relatively lightly complexioned like Rihanna, they’re less black? But aren’t most black Americans “as mixed race as Obama” genetically???
Wow, get a grip! The naked, smug racism is just crazy. I have a strong feeling that these trolls would never say this to a black person’s face in person. They’d know better. …Although it’s not like they come from a diverse background. If so, they wouldn’t be so incredibly dumb.
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One more thing:
It’s obvious that racists like these trollish posters don’t see people of color as equal to the “almighty” white man.
There’s frequent talk of “black women this, black women that”. Are black women actual people who are women, first; black, second? Or is everything about characterized by their race? Or is the “superior” white race the only group that should be granted the privilege of being accessed by their individual character and not merely as “white people”?
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So, black women are aggressive and unlady like.
Sure, look at how they act on this site. Same way they act in r/l. I find these women on here really scary. I wouldn’t touch them with a 10 foot pole and an 11 foot extension.
I don’t know about unlady-like. Depends how you like your women. Some guys like sassy, feisty women. Me? I run for the door. I’ve been involved with Black women and I find them overall, among other things, too aggressive.
White women are more feminine than Black women, and Asians are the most feminine of all. Just my 2 c. Depends how you like your women.
If you go to Black sites, there’s an awful lot of dark about colorism in Blacks and everyone knows Blacks themselves are obsessed with color. There’s even some comments from Black women in this post about how pretty that DARK Black woman in the pic is.
Little Jackie is about as White as she is Black. Really f-n pisses me off the way Blacks CLAIM for their own everyone with a few drops of Black in em. You’re just as bad as the White racists. You’ve both got your own one drop rules.
Are the so-called “dark” ones NOT supposed to be nice looking?
That’s the stereotype in the Black community, is it not? Don’t lie now!
But aren’t most black Americans “as mixed race as Obama” genetically???
No way Jose. Average Black, I think, is 17.5% White and 82.5% Black. Obama is 50-50 Black and White. Really ticks me off the way that you all aggressively stole this half-White man from our race. As a proud White man, I want to claim Barack for my people too! He’s as White as he is Black dammit. Get your greedy Black mitts off this man, my White President!
It’s obvious that racists like these trollish posters don’t see people of color as equal to the “almighty” white man.
Well…we talking averages? Looking at averages, I think Blacks ARE inferior. MORALLY inferior. Got that? I said *morally* inferior. The rate of low morals behavior in Blacks is way higher than in Whites.
But if a Black person is capable of being civilized and acting like a human (plenty are), they are welcome into my life. The more money Blacks have, the better they act. But I would say that poor Whites act better than poor Blacks by orders of magnitude! I’ve lived with both.
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Alright, I’m starting to get pissed off at this son of bitch named mynameismyname. He must have no life too continually interrupt us.
Janet asked us a question and were responding. Is everything “trollish” to you? Who even uses the word “trollish” anyways? You sound like a bitch that gets your ass handed too you from other men.
The thing that comes out of his mouth is just ridiculous. Your words don’t even phase me because all you do is criticize. Me and Rob both agree that black girls can be attractive, but not when they act ghetto.
That doesn’t make us racist. If you even try to say it does then you will sound really stupid. So please, save yourself now.
That’s the sad thing about people today. EVERYTHING is considered racist… even such a simple subject as saying we like black girls but not the ghetto that associate with. We find black girls attractive, especially ones that act like Little Jackie and Rhianna. Just not the hardcore ones always stirring up conflict and yelling. Don’t tell me otherwise! I’m right! If that’s what I like, than that’s what I like! It doesn’t make me racist in anyway!!!
I’ve come to the conclusion that mynameismyname is just insecure about himself. Maybe he’s still finding himself? Maybe he’s gay and has been harassed or threatened by others? This may have made him ultra sensitive on any of the topics dealing with prejudice. Maybe he has no social skills and is afraid to carry on a decent conversation? I really don’t know…
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OK… mynameismyname, we haven’t gotten off to such a good start… but you gotta admit, reading Robert Lindsay‘s stuff is like science fiction! It has like pretty nothing in connection to real life. Maybe even legitimate purple people live in his world!
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Once again, here are four links of black women I would find attractive. Rhianna, little jackie, and two black models
Ghetto black women I would not find attractive:
http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://msfriendly.files.wordpress.com/2008/03/ghetto1.jpg&imgrefurl=http://irainsupreme.com/category/black-women/&usg=__DrfrpI9DQNjcGkLzGqxTRRBoNfY=&h=315&w=420&sz=30&hl=en&start=2&um=1&tbnid=GRcmRcySw5oxWM:&tbnh=94&tbnw=125&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dghetto%2Bblack%2Bwomen%26hl%3Den%26client%3Dfirefox-a%26channel%3Ds%26rls%3Dorg.mozilla:en-US:official%26sa%3DG%26um%3D1
see the big difference in culture and style between them?
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I really should ignore these losers but I just couldn’t resist this one last time.
Black Americans are no more crazy about color than East Indians, East Asians and any other group of people who have been colonized by Europeans. It’s white people who created these “color codes” so it’s no suprise that so many people of color have assimilated them.
Um, it’s white America that reminds the Obamas and Imani Coppolas that they’re black. And if blacks acknowledge someone else of African descent, is that a bad thing? If someone is say, French and Swedish, is it wrong for a French person to acknowledge and embrace them as French because, I don’t know …they are of French descent as well! LOL.
Obviously, like many white liberal racists, you see blacks who you think of as “mixed race” as being somehow “above” other blacks. And then you try to condone your colorism by rationalizing like some little child: “Oh, but black people do it too.” If blacks have prejudiced attitudes towards each other, where did they get it from!?! LOL.
After reading the last two posts, I’m now sure that you’re trying to get a rise of people. I can’t believe that you’re that goddamn stupid.
I’ve decided that this is the last time I’ll respond to any of these trolls.
I’m done. I feel bad for even entertaining their garbage. They’re far beneath me and I know much better than to respond to their gleefully racist stupidity. I apologize to Abagond and the other intelligent posters for that.
Please, Abagond, it’s time that you regulate. It’s good that you don’t censor thought, but when it becomes outrageously trollish and deflamatory like the comments above, you should consider perhaps regulating some type of standard. You don’t want your blog’s quality to be diminished by socially inept and incredibly racist internet posters like “Mike”/”Lindsay”. Just a suggestion.
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Therese,
I like you! We were just debating. We were just challenging each other’s viewpoints about race. That’s all. You’re actually intelligent and sane, two things I can’t say about these other e-gentleman.
Aba, Therese or any other poster: Are the bizarre racist rants of folks like “Lindsay”/”Mike” represenative of many white people? If so, I’m scared. But unlike those racists, I don’t judge a group of people by the behavior of a few people.
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ohhhh boy…here we go again… Can this kid learn to mind his own business? You sound so incredibly stupid that it’s hysterical!
You’ve gotta be gay right? Am I right? You are so sensitive towards these topics that a big liberal would even find you outrageous.
Are you upset at something? Do you have an anger at the world? Is blogging your little escape out of depression?
Until this kid can tell me how I’m being racist, then he’s just sounding stupid.
I guarantee other African Americans would not even find what I’m saying offensive.
Maybe this kid just can’t comprehend that? Maybe he has brain damage to the frontal
lobe? I really just don’t know. It’s a waste of my time to be arguing with a kid probably 14 years old.
This is also my last post to this kid. I don’t really blog much and this is my first website I’ve ever blogged on. But seeing how we got some little bitches who can’t handle any criticism just pisses me off!
Go write the next bible while I smoke a joint and laugh how stupid you are!
Also, I recommend you supplement the word “troll” with another word. Are we in the 1700s? Are you lost in time?!?!?! It sounds stupid, kind of like you.
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Therese or any other poster: Are the bizarre racist rants of folks like “Lindsay”/”Mike” represenative of many white people?
well from MY experience of “white” people… nah, they’re special… even the general human population aren’t as creative as they are
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White men are generally some of the most psychically dangerous humans on the planet. Why should Black women be concerned about whether white men want to marry them or not? Black women deserve better options in the first place.
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blah blah blah…. I’m actually smiling right while holding a fat joint. Your making me laugh so much!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Indigo are you indian?
Tereasa are you black?
mynameismyname are you black?
either that or you are all sensitive gays who take human rights so serious!!!!!
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I want to claim Barack for my people too! He’s as White as he is Black dammit. Get your greedy Black mitts off this man, my White President!
He’s your President, he already belongs to you! Obama has already referred to himself as a “mutt” (in discussion for the First Family future puppy) and he obviously loves, respects and is very proud of his white family very much. But no one (well, I haven’t seen it myself) wears a badge telling people their true ethnic mix. He self identifies as an African American, because that is the experience that he’s lived. That’s how people treat and see him before they know of his white mother. He has never denied his white heritage, his self identification came about from how society viewed him before they even got to know him.
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But black people aren’t dangerous??? You know, I learned about this. It’s called mass hysteria. It’s where everybody forgets.
You guys are too dumb to open your eyes and not take any responsibility. Any of you recall the murders going on in South Africa??
Whites farmers are being raped and murdered. The black there are trying to exterminate whites. Watch news videos of you tube. Last time I checked, that was genocide…
We don’t ask much of you… All we ask is that you acknowledge that blacks can be just as racist and in this day in age, may even be more racist.
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Aba, Therese or any other poster: Are the bizarre racist rants of folks like “Lindsay”/”Mike” represenative of many white people? If so, I’m scared.
Actually, compared to lots of White people, we are way less racist. Mike and I are just saying the stuff that almost all Whites think but are too terrified by thuggish Blacks and the PC Police to say. I’ve been around White people my whole life, living in mostly White communities and I know how they think.
PS. I don’t think Mike is racist against Blacks at all. He seems like a good guy to me, an ally of Black folks.
Back to the White male Black female thing, when I was dating Black women I was openly told by “not obviously racist” Whites that what I was doing was sick, gross, horrible, awful and unthinkable.
I asked why and pointed out to a friend of mine that some Black women are hot, and he spurted out, “Yeah! If they’ve got a lot of White in them! Look at the Black. Look at it. It…it…looks like an ape!”
And this guy wasn’t known for being obviously racist. He’s brilliant, BA in philosophy from USC, a former law student. In the White community at the time, talk like that wasn’t even considered all that racist – it was just normal. Maybe you watched who you said it around…
So you want to know why White guys don’t go out with Black women, well, it’s wearying and disturbing to have to deal with attitudes like that from our friends and family so much…Not worth the hassle, you know?
Plus you sort of become this pariah – freak – weirdo – loser – sicko – laughing stock for being the White guy with a thing for Black chicks. Why bother man?
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I’ve been around White people my whole life, living in mostly White communities
Do you mean actual real breathing living people that actually interact with you? You’re not talking about posters or pictures of white people on your bedroom walls right? Because that doesn’t really count.
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Tereasa, there is no way your black.
What is that supposed to mean?
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Tell you what, if I could find me a hot Black chick who acted as soft, sweet, nice and feminine as your average Asian woman, I might just go out with her.
There’s this beautiful Black woman at Walmart who seems to be trying to fix me up with her sister…hmmm…
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OK, I admit I’m wrong about marijuana killing brain cells.
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Mike, do you consider yourself an ally of Blacks or not?
You all might be shocked to know that I consider myself to be pro-Black, an ally of Blacks. And in the About part of my blog, I say that my blog is officially a pro-Black blog.
And you all think I’m your enemy. Weird. SMH.
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I support blacks that can admit there is a double-standard to day like no other. I support blacks that aren’t loud or aggressive, but are civilized.
Four of my best friends have been black. Matter of fact, I remember my black friend saying I’m black in the inside lol. Like I said, I used to watch BET and such all the time. I was really pro-black.
But every time I hear that white people are trying to oppress them and that white people are 95% racist, I just turn into a super white nationalist. That’s the thing. But when I hear about Reverend Wright, the genocide against whites in South Africa, Hannity Colmes, The nation of Islam (A all black radical group), and the militant black panther party, I turn into KKK Mike for the time being. Because I hate double-standards and always being blamed on as if were oppressing them. When in reality, no white wakes up saying “How can I oppress blacky today?” Not every white is out to get a black.
To tereasa:
Well I don’t think it does really. With a black president, black mayor of Detroit, and black congressman, I do feel it is completely gone. Also, Colon Powell too. There are alot of high up blacks
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Wow, Therese, why are you entertaining these people?
I love the way the white racists strangely try to steer the conversation away from their own ignorance towards a whole ‘nother topic (marijuana?!). LOL. They never fail to amaze.
Seriously, Aba, try to consider what I mentioned in post #274. After reading this entire discourse, the quality of your blog is slowly diminishing. You don’t deserve that.
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Lol no one takes you serious mynameismyname. You’ve yet to answer. Are you a gay kid who is insecure?
There is just no winning with this kid. Tereasa can you agree with what me and Rob are getting at? I don’t know if your black, cuz you won’ tell us, but if you are: Do our comments seem racial? Or do we just seem pissed at double-standards and such?
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Tereasa, for a moment i was actually finding you to be intelligent. You seemed to be comprehending what we were saying. You realize that by agreeing with mynameismyname that you sound very ignorant.
I mean this guy is accusing us left and right. All I want you guys to understand is that we are not racists. I don’t judge you by the color of your skin. If color was a factor, then why would I flirt with Asian and Middle Eastern girls?
Ill say it right here. I find Rhianna, Little Jackie, Tryra Banks and other black women attractive. How many times do I have to tell you this?
Please be intelligent and get what were getting at. I like black people and I’ve never had a bad run-in with black people my whole life. You know what too? Guess what? I volunteered three days straight for the Obama campaign in Northern Michigan. I had to go door to door passing and pamphlets and make hundreds of calls! Your letting mynameismyname make false accusations.
Like I said, I’m not a racist white who feels every other race is inferior to me. That just sounds stupid. I don’t even care about ghetto blacks –cuz I’ve never had a bad run-in.
Just here me out though. What bothers me is double-standards against whites though. Right now, I can find you ten videos, straight up, on YouTube with other blacks defending whites and admitting too how the tide has changed. Keep in mind, these are other blacks saying this in our favor. So tell me how I’m ignorant? Also, by agreeing with mynameismyname then you are just imposing those double-standards by making us sound militant. So please stop now.
So please don’t be ignorant and encourage mynameismyname to go on. Open your eyes and see what were saying!!! I’m getting pissed off real fast at this site.
Hallelujah and I’m going to bed cuz I’m wasting way too much time
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The great Mohammed Ali said “you gotta have some white in you to be beautiful”
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This is a comment from mike fished out of the spam filter:
Once again, here are four links of black women I would find attractive. Rhianna, little jackie, and two black models
Ghetto black women I would not find attractive:
http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://msfriendly.files.wordpress.com/2008/03/ghetto1.jpg&imgrefurl=http://irainsupreme.com/category/black-women/&usg=__DrfrpI9DQNjcGkLzGqxTRRBoNfY=&h=315&w=420&sz=30&hl=en&start=2&um=1&tbnid=GRcmRcySw5oxWM:&tbnh=94&tbnw=125&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dghetto%2Bblack%2Bwomen%26hl%3Den%26client%3Dfirefox-a%26channel%3Ds%26rls%3Dorg.mozilla:en-US:official%26sa%3DG%26um%3D1
see the big difference in culture and style between them?
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I asked my question, and I got my answers. Call me stubborn, but from what I see but I think Abagond was right in his initial post.
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Thank you Janet for your question. That was a good idea.
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Last night there was a side-discussion on whether marijuana kills brain cells. I will be deleting those comments. They were way off topic.
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Robert Lindsay, mike, racerealist and any other white North American male reader:
Would you marry a really hot black woman who was submissive, who did not “act ghetto”? Would you have children with her and be seen in public with them? Why or why not?
(Assume, for the sake of argument, that the children will come out looking black and that they will be the only children you will ever have.)
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abagond – I am interestedin their response.
I do know that father is just as proud of his grand child who look mexican and who look black as he does his ones who have blonde hair and blue eyes.
My sisters father in law has this on his wall.
“Our Family is a circle of strength and love.
With every birth and every union
the circle grows.
Every joy shared adds more love.
Every crisis faced together
makes the circle stronger.”
when we get together for holidays…white, black, hispanic and asian…we are a family. And we are proud of every single part of it.
Why would a person care if their child is black or white or any shade of brown in between. To miss out on that love, that bond, that strength and unity – because of skin color!!!! ridiculous.
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Nonserviam, if you remember him, knew just how racist he was being, which buttons he was pressing, so much so that I thought maybe he was a rich black kid or something.
Neither, actually. I am, however, something of an outsider in this country. Self-awareness comes with the territory.
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yea abagond, i would marry a beautiful black women who is submissive. She doesn’t even have to be submissive though. I just don’t want her to be crazy ghetto. That’s all were getting at. Erase ghetto from black women and white men would go after them more. I’m not just talking about slang, I’m talking about the hardcore ghetto chicks you’ll find in Detroit and stuff.
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Black Americans are no more crazy about color than East Indians, East Asians and any other group of people who have been colonized by Europeans. It’s white people who created these “color codes” so it’s no suprise that so many people of color have assimilated them.
Actually, Chinese poets were praising white skin long before any significant encounters with Europeans. Shocking as it may sound, not everything in the world is the fault of the white devils.
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Also, I wouldn’t feel uncomfortable whatsoever with a black gf in front of white people. It wouldn’t phase me.
However, I would feel uncomfortable being with her by other blacks, because they would make comments and such.
I would get more harassment from the black community than whites. Ever see the movie “Guess Who” with Ashton Kutcher? Where the black Dad is upset about her daughter dating a white man. I could picture the black community more mad than the white at this.
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I have to agree with Neoserviam. There are so many double-standards against whites, that it is sickening. Not everything is “white mans” fault, nor is white man out to get everyone.
Also, the fact of whites enslaving blacks is not relevant. You wanna know why? Almost every culture in the World has been enslaved at some point in time. The Egyptians enslaved the Jews, alot worse than blacks. The Romans enslaved many whites too build their temples. The Aztecz enslaved members of other tribes.
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The Jews were very oppressed during WWII. Millions of them were killed and forced into concentration camps. They were oppressed five years with nothing to fall back on. Their wealth was stripped away and their homes were destroyed. It was an all-out war against Jews. And before that, they were oppressed by Romans and Egyptians.
People of Jewish decent have certainly been oppressed a hell of a lot longer than African Americans. Yet, you don’t here them saying that they can’t do good in school because their great grandfather was oppressed. That’s how stupid some of the excuses sound when black people use them.
There is no doubt that blacks had it tough from the time of the first colonies in America to the 1970s. But after that, there is just excuses. Even the 1970s is pushing it. Barack Obama was born in 1961 and faced worse discrimination from both blacks and whites. He was drop-dead poor. His Dad left him at an early age. Yet, he is now President of the United States –the most powerful man in the world.
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But Mike what you fail to realize is this, Jews are more accepted in society than Blacks, because of their skin color. They look white! So of course after World War II it would be easier for them to move on. That would be like my Nigerian friend, she knows that she’s Nigerian, our friends know that she’s Nigerian, but someone who doesn’t know her would just see a black girl. The same scenario applies to Jewish people, people see white.
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To Ashley:
But Mike what you fail to realize is this, Jews are more accepted in society than Blacks, because of their skin color. They look white! So of course after World War II it would be easier for them to move on.
Jews can be any color but Ashkenazim (European Jews), the majority of the US Jewish population, basically are white. As for Jewish relations with the gentiles in the US, yes there has been some antisemitism but it was nowhere near the levels of what happened in the Germany, Hungary, Romania in the 30s and 40s or to a lesser extent Czarist Russia. For that matter the first Jewish cabinet level position of a North American government, Judah P. Benjamin, was for the confederacy: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judah_P._Benjamin
As for Jews and their current relationship with German nationals (as opposed to gentiles in the US..) I am not sure one can say “They have moved on..”
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Ashley made a very important point: Being Jewish, like being gay, is something you can hide. Being black is written all over your face.
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Exactly Uncle Milton, the Jews were far more oppressed than the 200 years of slavery of African Americans. They were oppressed by the Germans, Romans, and Egyptians. No, they have not necessary moved on. But you don’t hear them making excuses why they can’t get a job and do good in school. They don’t use emotional distress as a factor. A lot of African Americans claim they have emotional distress even though none of them experienced slavery. Even though only their grandparents faced discrimination and the majority of them after that haven’t.
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This post has so many comments that instead of updating it, I wrote a part II:
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That doesn’t matter, Abagond. African Americans claim they have this “emotional distress” of their great great grandparents being enslaved. If anything, the Jews should have a higher level of emotional distress. They were oppressed far worse and way longer.
Yet, you don’t here them using that as an excuse for why they can’t do good in school and get a job.
Also, many Jews are identifiable. Because they either have long beards or wear a yarmulkes on their head. Hell, neo-nazis and white supremacists still despise Jews. So they are just as discriminated against as blacks. They might even be more today because of religious hate crimes.
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I doubt Jews “are just as discriminated against as blacks”. But that is off topic. I wrote a post on Jews. You could write about it there. Or suggest a post that I could write that would be good for it.
Here is my post on Jews:
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All men have a predatory nature, the hunter, if you will. I also find it be true and active in white men in their pursuit of black woman. Of course not all white men, but many are proud of have sex with a variety of black women and are not above saying how available black women are, how hungry black women are in bed, how expressive black women are and they will never go back to a white woman. Yet, they will not marry a black woman. Why, because black women are so giving and willing to have sex with a white man, so why marry her or even date her. Black women, especially young black women are so enamored with white men and long for the attention. Older white men are more into younger black women after a divorce from a white woman, for the experience. They are more apt to stereotype black women due to the lack of contact with black women in general. Dating is out of the question because they certainly do not have to work at having sex, they are less likely to take a women out or even date her before sleeping with her. Just telling black women how much they are desired by a white man is enough for many black women.
I have read many blogs on this subject. What I find is after the adoration wears off, black women, especially young ones notice he did not take her out for a meal, or date her. He may have flown to have sex with her, which impressed her, but they remained indoors the entire time. He treated her as a sex object. She asks herself, how could she allow herself to be treated like that, he did not seem to be interested in her, only having sex with her. She is now hurt or she convince herself she just wanted sex too. Knowing in the end she was used and disrespected by a white man and she allowed it to happen. I have seen this too often.
Yet, I am optimistic. I know there are good white men out there who are not into using black women to satisfy their desire. Who genuinely want a relationship with a black women and can fall in love with a black women. Who believe in respecting all women including black women. I know he is out there.
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SanAntonioBeauty,
Your insightful commentS illustrate why it’s critical that ANTI-BW LIES, MYTHS, AND STEREOTYPES BE DESTROYED. For too long BW have been devalued and disrespected by men of ALL races due to ANTI-BW ATTITUDES/ACTIONS that trash the HUMANITY, DIGNITY, AND FEMININITY OF BW. ALL BW need to understand that, just like women of ANY race, we are HUMAN BEINGS and WOMEN worthy of GENUINE relationships based on RESPECT AND TRUE LOVE. BW are NOT OBJECTS TO BE USED, ABUSED, AND DISCARDED.
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Um, SanAntonioBeauty…I really find it hard to believe that black women are just yearning for a white man’s attention. Those types of black women are defintely a rare breed, at least in the States. Without a doubt.
Aba wrote this post as a survey of white male attitudes toward dating black women. That was the purpose. In all honesty, I believe that a white man is the last thing on the mind of the vast majority of black women.
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A “survey” of white male attitudes?
No white male attitudes are mentioned, except for a completely unfounded accusation of racism.
There is no intelligent analysis here, no data collection, no weighing of arguments.
Just “blah blah blah WHITE MEN ARE RACIST!”
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To all my black people out there! Eradicate blacks like mynameismyname. He gives you a bad name!
mynameismyname you are a black supremest. Your posts have proved it over and over. Give me your address so I can put it on StormFront to all the 150,000 white supremacists who visit it daily. They can then kick your dirty racist ass outta here.
If black women wanna like white men, than so be it. Don’t fill their minds with hate like you do. This is an exact strategy black supremacists use. They tell you your race traders or such. Women can choose who they want to be with regardless of your views.
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Could it be that black women actually dislike white men? Why all the white male hate?
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I’m Bi-racial My Mother is White & Father is Black , I grew up in A Dominetly White Community & hung around mostly White Girl’s due to the treatment I suffered by the hands of Black sisters , I tried to hangout & be cool w/ Black Females but I never get Treated right , & not to be Racist but Most of the Black girl’s I know of are Loud & Ghetto & I’m not use to that .
I also Notice A huge Difference in how I’m waited on when I’m with A group of Mostly Only White girl’s its like You’re treated A little Different too .
Black men & White Women .. growing up My Black Father Claimed that the Reason why? He only Dated White Women is because Black Women Were too Loud & Gold-diggers & ect ect ..
My Mother who’s white Do not believe All Black Women are What these Stereotypes are & She thinks Its stupid & with her having 2 Bi-racial Mixed Daughters to her Its Ignorance upon Black men to say these things about their own Women & I grew up with my Mother telling me That I should Embrace Both Black African Culture & Irish/Italian Cultures do not Be Ashamed of My Mixed Cultures & She tried her Best in making us Hang around Black people & kids who were Black or Mixed Black cultures .
I however Growing up never Got Treated fairly So I still Hangout with White Girl’s & talk & Act White because thats what I’m use to , I However Do Date only Black men & I get Hell for it From Black Female’s .
So In away I feel just like Most White girl’s when Dealing with Black Female’s & dating Black Men .
I know in High School Me & My White Friend both date Black Football players who star Star Quarterbacks very Dark Black Handsome Guy’s & we both Got hell for Dating These Black guys because Black girl’s Got Mad & Jealous .
So From my stand point of View & viewing it From A Bi-racial side I kinda Feel that Black Women are Jealous of Bi-racial & White girl’s who Date Black guys.
I think BLack women are Scared that Black men have Lost their Lust for them & In Away I think Most Black men Have .
I kinda feel that Most Black women hate on Us White girl’s because Black men seem to treat us Better .
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Actually Nicole need to get her facts right, because she has skewed all the dates and figures.
First, slavery in the US existed before the US independance from Britain between the 14th and 19th Century. There were more than 3million slaves taken on that 3 month middle passage to North America. Hence, it documented that Christopher Columbus transported slaves in 1492 when he discovered America. Slaves were dropped off in the carribian to be broken; reprogrammed. Then taken to the Americas. When America broke away from Briain in 1776, slavery was being irraticated in Europe. However, America was making so much money through cotton trade that the greedy Land owners decided to break from Britian to illimate the Brittish taxation, and British rule. During this time European nations were gaining concensus to end slavery which were spear headed by Quakers and English Nobility. American Land owners wanted to sustain their profits through the use of free labor, so they propogandized independence to gain support from poor whites to fight for America’s independents. There were some blacks and indians fighting also. Ironically, we see the same thing happening today with the Republicans. They propgandize illimating taxation to gain the votes so their rich corporations can get richer while the poor folks voting for republicans are loosing their homes, healthcare and 401(k)s due to republican deregulation and corruption. Funny how the dynamics inhistory repeats itself.
Secondly, the Indian Ocean slave trade was controlled by Arabs who married their slaves. The slaves were African and Arab(Middle Eastern) captured soldiers and conquored societies. When the Romans (Christians) conquored societies they burned the land and killed all the people in the villages so that no one could come back and defeat them. However, when Arab Muslems conquor societies they enslaved the soldiers and any who would not comply with new rule, and married the women.
Finally, there was no such thing as the internal African slave trade. African tribes had wars with factioning tribes. Islamic nations sold prisioners of war to North Africa, and later after the Porteguese arrived to Europeans. DO YOU GET IT, SLAVERY WAS EQUIVIALNT TO CHAIN GANGES IN THE US. Some groups were indentured servants. This was not just in African tribes, Arab tribes did the same thing. In 1808 it was not king Bonnie, it was Osei Bonsu who ascended to the Asante throne, and fought the British colonization and control of their land and Gold. Unfortunately, both Akwamu, Fante and Asante tribes benefited from the trade. Through their European connections the Asante traded slaves for weapons and used them to conquer more land and fight other kingdoms. IT was those weapons that allowed them to temporarily stnad off the Brittish. But the Brittish came back, and eliminated their source wealth; in an effort to weaken them so they could take and colonize the land; dig for gold, siliver and other minerals. The land was sacred and the tradition of selling slaves was as old as Islam.
Samalians, Ethiopians, East Indians are all genetically the results of the indian ocean slave trade. Please don’t misconstrue the indian slave trade as the same as the North Atlantic Slave trade because it was far different. Moreover, it wasn’t based on skin color, it was based on tribal conquoring. To equate the two would be incorrect.
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Nicole Says:
Fri 27 Feb 2009 at 02:34:25
Ann, Your own people had exterminated whole nations and tore families apart for profit before the white folks got their chance at a cut. In fact Africa’s internal slave trade, which did not involve the United States or any European power, not only extended over the entire 500 years but also preceded it by nearly 1,000 years. In the period between 650 and 1600, before any Western involvement, somewhere between 3 million and 10 million Africans were bought by Muslim slavers for use in Saharan societies and in the trade in the Indian Ocean and Red Sea.
By contrast, the enslavement of blacks in the United States lasted 89 years, from 1776 until 1865. The combined slave trade to the British colonies in North America and later to the United States accounted for less than 3 percent of the global trade in African slaves. The total number of slaves imported to North America was 800,000, less than the slave trade to the island of Cuba alone. If the internal African slave trade-which began in the seventh century and persists to this day in the Sudan, Mauritania and other sub-Saharan states-is taken into account, the responsibility of American traders shrinks to a fraction of 1 percent of the slavery problem. African tribes were some of the fiercest defenders of slavery when whites tried to outlaw the practice in the 19th century. Blacks in present-day Ghana rioted against the British as they destroyed the slave ports along Africas western coast. In 1808, the King of Bonny (now Nigeria) told the British: Youre country, however great, can never stop a trade ordained by God himself
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Mike clearly is encapableof synthises; because he can only speak from his own narrow life experience. During the sufferage movement, when women were owned by their fathers and husbands, they could not vote, own land or travle without consent, Susan B. Anthony championed the rights of women and more than 100 years later we still face similar fate. Yet most men, are encapable or unwilling to acknowledge the unfair treatement in the work place etc. Therfore, disregard Mikes comments as limited.
The 1965 civil rights act would not have been accomplished had it not been for New York Jewish community. Jews and Blacks have been persecutedfor their religion and race for centuries. However, the reason Jews have overcome persecution and were able to help black gain civil rights is because Jews were able to assimilate and infultrate the power structure. Many changed their names to gain acceptance into ivy league schools. There were the Feldersteins who are now the Felders; the Czyz’s who are now the Chess’s, the Blustein’s are now the Blondells, and the Bursteins are now the Burretts. They wore the mask and obtained power and influence decision making. There are blacks who too were passers. Many passers helped blacks obtain opportunities as well. Hence, although blacks can change their religion and or name, they can’t change their skin color. Even Micheal can’t run from it; because under all that bleach we still know his Black. Many black passers distanced themselves from their families because they knew if they were ever found out that the white world would admonish and reject them. Really, I don’t beleive anyone wants to be Black, but when you don’t have a choice, I suppose you have to make the best of it. The only way to change oppression and glass ceilings is to reject it and fight against it. Together, Blacks and Jews have great job in America. The reminates of race base society will always impact blacks and hold them back based on the decision makers own racism. If the decision maker dosn’t let you in the door you must some how break down those doors. In the past, Jews have infultrated and then opened the doors for their own. When their American jewish kids grew up in the US in the 60’s saw the oppression that their ancesters and family had experienced in Poland, Russia, Israel, and the US, those kids took a stand. Many of the businesses in segregated Black neighborhoods were run and owned by Jews. Many Jewish college students in the 60’s had grandparents who were forced to live in Natzi controlled ghettos and where the star the star of David to identify that they were Jewish. Many equated US segratation and oppression as the same,accept their skin color was the star of David. In reality, if this was happening to blacks now, it could happen to jews later. Hence, that shared experience joined forces. But in reality, it was passers who made the money and influence join in to break through the glass ceiling.
Frankly, Jewish history is the oldest recorded history. As long as Jews make sure the history is taught to Jewish chidlren, there won’t be anything Jews can not over come; because they can make sure history won’t repeat itself. Militaries study history to win wars and sustain power. The Holocost has taught Jews that racism and ant-semetism go hand in hand from an oppressors stance. Therefore, Jews had to get involved in the 60’s civil rights movement. I must say that if US blacks became Jews instead of Christians and Muslems, there would be no Black on Black violent crimes. Life would focus around family and wealth and security buidling. The diaspora would be a global African & Jewish diaspora.
Just a thought.
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mike Says:
Thu 26 Mar 2009 at 19:26:26
The Jews were very oppressed during WWII. Millions of them were killed and forced into concentration camps. They were oppressed five years with nothing to fall back on. Their wealth was stripped away and their homes were destroyed. It was an all-out war against Jews. And before that, they were oppressed by Romans and Egyptians.
People of Jewish decent have certainly been oppressed a hell of a lot longer than African Americans. Yet, you don’t here them saying that they can’t do good in school because their great grandfather was oppressed. That’s how stupid some of the excuses sound when black people use them.
There is no doubt that blacks had it tough from the time of the first colonies in America to the 1970s. But after that, there is just excuses. Even the 1970s is pushing it. Barack Obama was born in 1961 and faced worse discrimination from both blacks and whites. He was drop-dead poor. His Dad left him at an early age. Yet, he is now President of the United States –the most powerful man in the world.
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Together, Blacks and Jews have great job in America.
Thanks, but no thanks.
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The family in the picture are a beautiful family. Absolutely goregous. Those three little girls should be in commercials.
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I am a black African living in Switzerland and married to a German white man. I married him not because of his colour and what not but because he is the loveliest man I have met thus far. It is interesting to read that these issues are far more important in the US than Europe. I have lived in the US and in Europe and I have observed that white men in the US are far more likely to have issues dating or marrrying a black woman than over here in Europe. After having spent more time in Europe, I am definitely convinced that white Americans are far more likely to be racist than white Europeans. I would be interested in hearing what others who have lived in Europe think about this issue.
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Americans are more racist. Hands down. Everything’s about race here. Or sex. Race and sex.
Candace: “So In away I feel just like Most White girl’s when Dealing with Black Female’s & dating Black Men.”
Ditto here. In high school I dated a black guy once. I nearly got my a$$ kicked by a bunch of black girls who he didn’t even know. They told me to “stick to my own kind”. I didn’t know what to say to that. I drew a complete blank. What in the world is “my own kind”?
After high school I moved to Europe, so that solved that problem. Over there, “your own kind” is every man that isn’t married or gay. Makes things much simpler. *grin*
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Stacie: “The family in the picture are a beautiful family. Absolutely goregous. Those three little girls should be in commercials.”
Yes, they are adorable, aren’t they? The one on the right looks like a younger Thandie Newton.
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I don’t buy that there’s no racism in Europe.
It probably only seems like less of an issue because there’s less blacks there than there are in the U.S.
If the black population increased significantly, I wonder if posters would say that there’s no real race issues there?
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There’s not much racism in Europe but there is plenty of xenophobia, which is a separate but related problem. The major difference that I felt was that in Europe the anger is directed at MALE foreigners (much xenophobia is economic-related) whereas in America every gender is hated equally.
Basically: being a black woman you’re better off in Europe. If you’re a black man, you’re better off… no you’re screwed either way.
It’s sort of like the way Americans feel about Mexican immigrants. They want to send the men back but keep the pretty young girls. (You know it’s true!)
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THERE IS TOO MUCH HATRID ON THIS THREAD. WHAT HAPPENED TO LOVE, HARMONY AND PEACE? WELL, GOODBYE!
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There are more than 96,000 African refugees and African migrants in Italy today. They have experienced harsh racism and descrimination. They are protesting for jobs and opportunity and the Italians want them sent some where else.
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Wow who wrote the list above above???
First off like it or not most white men are just not attracted to black woman who………Look Black.
Many black features are not found to be attractive its personal choice.
If your black the brothers will for the most part envy you for having a white girl just about any white girl .
Not so if your white, with less than a knock down gorgeous black woman. My lady was very disappointed in me that I let how we and mostly I was treated by the black mostly male community . Day after day the BS just wasn’t worth it . It never ended … maybe today 25 years later its differnt but in Boston in the 80’s it just plain sucked….
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Richard said,
First off like it or not most white men are just not attracted to black woman who………Look Black.
laromana’s response,
I’m not sure if I agree with this generalization due to the history of ANTI-BW HATE in America. I don’t believe that there is a “NATURAL LACK OF ATTRACTION” between WM/NON-BM and BW. In my lifetime, I’ve experienced bizarre behavior from American WM/NON-WM who were clearly ATTRACTED to me and other BW but sufferred from either ANTI-BW COWARDICE, (culturally induced) ANTI-BW RACISM, or a combination of both. I’ve always wondered how WM/NON-BM in America would have treated BW if ANTI-BW HATE was nonexistent in the culture. I strongly believe that if there WAS/HAD NEVER BEEN a RACIST, ANTI-BW STIGMA attached to seriously dating and/or marrying a BW in America, today, there might be as many BW/WM-NON-BM IRR’s as there are NON-BW/WM-NON-BM IRR’S.
I find it interesting that European WM/NON-BM tend to be attracted to authentic “African looking” BW and aren’t AFRAID to show their attraction, as well as seriously date and/or marry them.
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For more info. on American ANTI-BW HATE, please reference Ann’s excellent insightful comment above.
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Ann’s comment at #30 is among the best on this website!
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I notice alot of times if A White man dio Marry A Black Woman Shes not Pure Black Or shes light skined Damn near White . Theres A Few White men that are With Black women that look African American.
however most of the time you’ll see them with A Black woman that don’t look black Or A Bi-racial Girl .
I’m not sure if its because they don’t want their kids to look pure Black ….lol But I’ve noticed this by seen White men who Date Black Women they Usually Date A Black Woman that are light Skined Or Bi-racial.
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laromana said:
I find it interesting that European WM/NON-BM tend to be attracted to authentic “African looking” BW and aren’t AFRAID to show their attraction, as well as seriously date and/or marry them.
Right: if the lack of attraction was strictly physical, then there would be little difference between white men in Europe and America.
Ideas of female beauty in America are informed in part by racism.
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Well when I’ve come across bw/wm couples the women were usually from medium brown skin (think Sanaa Lathan) to the lady’s complexion in the photo above, but for some reason I’ve only seen a few of them with women really fair (think Tisha Cambell). I’d even say most of them had *gasp* “black” features. I honestly don’t think the idea that “white men only go for black women with euro-like features” is true across the board, just like with everything else some do and others don’t..
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^^^
The thing is, that most of the time white men, Native European or American-born, DON’T go for white-looking black woman. That’s what Abagond has been exploring all of this time.
As I’ve said before, it’s not surprising and makes much sense. Like “Lanomora”, the previous poster said, black women who have alleged “African features” are perceived as “authenthic”. So, if I’m white and want to get with a black woman, wouldn’t I go for what I think of as the “real thing”? Remember part of interracial romance is the joy of constrast.
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Skin color is a constant topic when the issue of black female beauty is explored on this site.
Of of curiosity, expounding on Lanomora’s comment, are very dark-brown-complexioned generally seen as “authenthic”? while their light-colored blacks are seen as “less authenthic”? How so?
Also, to expound on #337’s comment, the reason why few fair-skinned black women
are with white men is because usually, those fair black women go for much darker-skinned men. Not every single last one, obviously, but the vast majority. It’s seemed to be the same way with their male counterparts.
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My comment was directed towards Richard’s earlier comment, but the way you explained it makes alot of sense mynameismyname
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How I make sense of it: Why would a white man put up with the pain and trouble of an interracial relationship for a bad imitation of a white woman when he can easily have the real thing? That is why light-skinned women appeal mainly to black men, not white men.
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^^^
Exactly. I said the same thing in response to some of the recent comments. So, we’re on the same page.
LOL @ you calling white-appearing black women a bad imitation. LOL. I get where you’re coming from though.
For many black men (and women- many black woman have a preference for light skin as well, it’s not exclusive for their male counterparts), a white-appearing black person is just one step away from a white woman/man. One step away from privilege. At least it is in their warped minds.
Also, I believe that many white men may just geninuely see the beauty in black woman. Obviously-black women tend to be the most beautiful, I believe that many non-black people are able to see that.
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Interesting…
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Race is social construct (look at how we “classify” those who are biracial i.e. the one drop rule) and despite what is believed there is NO CURRENT scientific data that proves there is a difference between the ‘races’ . There is only 7% genetic variation from “race” to “race”.
http://www.annals.org/cgi/content/full/125/8/675
“Physical variations in the human species have no meaning except the social ones that humans put on them.”
-The American Anthropological Association
The biggest issue is the lack of understanding and education for each other’s culture. Culture is what defines a group of people and explains everything from behavior to hairstyles – not race. We naturally identify with those who look like us or who we share similarities of some sort with. Many people aren’t pushed to go outside these walls. On many occasions we interact with other social groups because we have to not out of want. There are many reasons for this all of which have been debated heavily on this board. I understand them fully and see no value in repeating them.
I find this whole thread unnerving. To generalize ANY group of people based upon ethnicity or the pseudo race construct is beneath humanity but is also scarily human -no matter if we see so or not. No man is what is his neighbor is despite outward similarities. Being racist – in any form is counterproductive for society as well as for that individual person (in my opinion). It does not make a difference how much pigmentation you have in your skin.
I realize that this may be and is a utopian point of view (and of the original post’s subject in some ways) and I am well aware of how and what race was and has become in American society . Being a black woman does not afford me the luxury to use my beliefs about race as an everyday survival skill (obviously) nor does it anyone for that matter BUT being able to see the larger picture is key.
What someone thinks of me or any part of my culture is of their concern. I know the truth and it doesn’t change regardless of what anyone believes.
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Right: what should be and what is.
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laromana’s original comment: I find it interesting that European WM/NON-BM tend to be attracted to authentic “African looking” BW and aren’t AFRAID to show their attraction, as well as seriously date and/or marry them.
CLARIFICATION: When I stated that European men tend to be attracted to “authentic” African looking women I meant to use this as evidence that they are not AFRAID to be seen having a SERIOUS DATING and/or MARRIAGE relationship with a woman who has an UNMISTAKABLE, BLACK and/or typical AFRICAN appearance. This is in contrast to MOST AMERICAN WM/NON-BM who are so AFRAID of the POTENTIAL STIGMA of being seen having a SERIOUS relationship with a BW, that they AVOID BW altogether (regardless of ACTUAL ATTRACTION) or only date and/or marry ACCEPTABLE BW (ie. LESS BLACK LOOKING/MORE WHITE LOOKING BW). This does not mean that I believe that light skinned BW are NOT AUTHENTIC BW.
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^^^
That’s your view and I respect it. Yet, as Aba has proven many times on this site: when white men (Native European or American-born) do “go black” they go for what you describe as “authentic” rather than the black women you describe as “acceptable”. There’s no denying that.
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that post about asian women being more feminime and submissive, well the ones ive chatted to are indeed feminime ( as women are suppsosed to be – my preference ) and they wont take shit from some muppets insulting them, thats what i respect.
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I’ve lived in America all my life and in my experience, MOST AMERICAN WM/NON-BM DON’T CHOOSE BW who are darker skinned or “Black looking” because of their FEAR OF STIGMA if they’re seen seriously dating and/or marrying this type of BW. Of course, I strongly disagree/have always disagreed with this mindset. MOST European men DO CHOOSE darker skinned, “Black looking” BW because they ARE NOT AFRAID of STIGMA (or care what anyone thinks) for seriously dating and/or marrying BW.
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I totally and fully agree with the below assertion. I think that in the US, white men who don’t leave the country are afraid of stigmas. However, the ones that are in the Military and have an opportunity to the see the world definately marry dark skinned women. I too aggree that European men marry dark skinned women also.
laromana Says:
Mon 4 May 2009 at 23:23:15
I’ve lived in America all my life and in my experience, MOST AMERICAN WM/NON-BM DON’T CHOOSE BW who are darker skinned or “Black looking” because of their FEAR OF STIGMA if they’re seen seriously dating and/or marrying this type of BW. Of course, I strongly disagree/have always disagreed with this mindset. MOST European men DO CHOOSE darker skinned, “Black looking” BW because they ARE NOT AFRAID of STIGMA (or care what anyone thinks) for seriously dating and/or marrying BW.
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In response to the several posters here who believe that white American men who date or marry BW prefer lighter skinned or biracial appearing BW, my experience has been exactly the opposite: WM who do choose to date (seriously date) or marry interracially tend to prefer darker skinned BW. This is certainly the case among the many WM I know personally who are married to BW, and it is a theme one sees repeatedly in blogs and discussion boards geared toward WM/BW relationsips.
As to Agabond’s comments about WM “put[ting] up with the pain and trouble of an interracial relationship,” in my experience I wouldn’t use strong words like “pain” or “trouble” to describe being in an IR relationship.
As any man here in a long term relationship with woman will attest, being in a committed relationship with a woman — any woman of any color — is itself a peculiar form of pain and trouble, but I won’t go there.
The IR part does inject some new elements — gapes and stares from strangers, aggressive hostility from BM on the streets, the occasional exclusion from country club cadre events — but in the big picture these are more background noise than fundamental life hurdles.
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Exactly Blanc2,
I don’t know where the previous posters get the idea of white men wanting white-looking women of color. It’s the total opposite, across the board (black/East Asian/South Asian, etc.). Everyone knows that. Perhaps, that’s their belief or maybe, it reflects their own attitudes about race and skin color. Who knows.
You’re right, any comitted relationship, be it platonic or romantic, will have elements of pain and trouble but I do believe that an IR one in America will have even more strife. Not all the time, of course. But more often than not. That’s why few white Americans are involved romantically with black Americans.
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It is an american thing ,not a european thing.White american men are much more racist then white european male , who cares if a white american men will not marry an african american women they are not the best looking men in the world.Most european men are much more attractive and msot love black women specially very dark skin black women it exotic to them , most of them are so gorgeous , scandinavian men gorgeous , some uk men gorgeous , italian men also gorgeus , so who cares.Most of white american men marry filipinos , who are also part black , pacific islanders who are part black , they still marry black or part black women from those countries , but they are in denial about it as long those women are not from africa they are not consider black , but i thought in america if you are part black then you are black , right?I preffer white european men i am from there any way .A attractive black women in europe is a plus and a bonus , so black women you are desired , so don’t worry what a fat , unattractive , ignorant men in america thinks about you , travel please do so.America has kept you in the dark and made you believe in the lies just to keep you down , please wake up and smell the coffee.By the way i am multiracial.
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Blanc2,
Although it’s true that SOME AMERICAN
WM/NON-BM DO choose to SERIOUSLY DATE
and/or MARRY dark skinned BW,
MOST AMERICAN WM/NON-BM DON’T choose to
SERIOUSLY DATE and/or MARRY dark skinned BW
(due to FEAR OF STIGMA, ANTI-BW RACISM, or
a combination of both.
I KNOW this from my LIFETIME, PERSONAL experience as a BW in America.
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Most American WM don’t serious date or marry BW of any shade. Those of us who do, however, tend to prefer darker sisters with more traditionally “black” features.
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question – is the fact that most BMs marry BWs and dont marry WW also due to fear of stigma, racisim or a combination of both? Is it only wrong if a WM marrys his race?
Or is it perfectly acceptable for a person to feel most comfortable with people they have something in common with. Shared culture, shared life experiences etc.
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The racism and stigma is not the same for white men as for black men. A black man will pretty much always have black children no matter who he marries. Not so for white men. So racism affects them more in who they date and marry.
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Laromana is talking about white American men in general, Blanc2 and Mynameismyname only about the few who date or marry black women.
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This statement is so true. Whites do hold a higher position in society. A white man marrying a black woman does result in them stepping down a notch in their peers eyes. Since networking and relationships directly effects peoples jobs, life, social status, and salaries white men typically takes the least resistant road. Honestly, just as people will marry for money an status; white men will choose not to marry a black woman if they fear those things will be jepordized.
In the milinium, I find that Military Men are beyond that notion. There seems to be a growing number of white male Military officers married to dark skinned black women. Frankly, for some white males it takes being Army strong to deal with the stigma and any possible social reprocussions.
Interestingly, I also find that excentric white wealthy men who are established (older 50+ on 2cd marriage) aren’t effected socially or financially by their peers judgement. What baffles me is when a young white male from a connected family, and ivyleague marries a black woman who is not of the ivyleague or connected. For example, Ronald Betts, chairman of Chelsa Pier and director of Lower Manhattan Development Corporation is a billionaire whose first and only wife is a dark skinned African American woman who he has been married to for more than 30 years. The really unusual thing is that he is completely white, not Jewish or Sicilian. Also he isan’t bad looking,is from a connected family & was not an outcast, graduated from Yale and Harvard, is best friends and fraternity brother with George W Bush, is a member of the powerful secret Yale society skull & bones. Normally, these types of white guys have stepford wives. They are encouraged by their peers and family members to be successful. They are told by their family and friends that they are throwing away their future by marrying a black woman. Because they would be excluded or rejected by the groups that could provide them with opportunity and wealth. That scares most families. It’s not racism it is just fear and the notion of why subject yourself to a burden of a uphill battle when you don’t have too. A white man can get a stepford wife and not have to deal with the burden of the ills of society. White privlidge means just that; open doors not closed ones, building relationships to illimate the uphill battles if they simply play the game. It’s like why walk when you can ride. Ironically, Ron Betts did it his way, and married the woman he wanted to marry. In todays world it’s not surprising, but 30 years ago, that was a gamble which took incredible courage and strong will. Here is a picture of Ron and Loise Betts with one of their daughters at a charity event.
http://broadwayworld.com/people/galleryphoto.php?photoid=18706&personid=12073
They say that after law school Ronald Betts decided to work in the inner city schools in NYC in the 70’s were he met his wife who worked at as a teacher in Harlem. Talk about shocked. Normally, guys like him marry a stepford wife first, then after kids, divorce and midlife crisis, they will change it up and marry a woman of color. By the time they marry the woman of color they are so powerful that they are beyond being effected by judgement; like former Secretary of State William Cohen. It takes a strong independant white man to marry a dark skinned black woman in the 70’s as his first and only wife at a young age. Usually strong independant white men don’t come from privlaged families, or are social outcasts or nerds, super intelligent, and are not involved in social/fraternal organizations like Peter Norton (billionaire antivirus inventor/programmer). Hence, he has black kids and is on his second black wife.
I think Blacks are used to the struggle, discrimination and persecution, so blacks can weather the storm of injustice and deal with the burden. However, whites have choice, and many choose not to deal with it; even if they like black women. So even when white men were attracted to black women, back then they didn’t marry them and stay married for 30+ years. Many white men aren’t strong willed enough to do what they want to do. The ones that marry and end in divorce like the Seagmans heir and Warner Brothers CEO Edgar Bonfman, who against his Dads wishes married his black girlfriend Sherry Bronfman in 1979 but they divorced in 1991 is now married to a white woman. Although, maybe he isan’t agood example because Edgar is different because he is Jewish, so that example dosn’t count. Jews know the burden persecution so when they marry Black woman it is not the same as a true caucasion man like Ronald Betts marrying a Black woman. I means Jews were persecuted by the same groups blacks were persecuted by.
Anyway back to my last point, Ronald Betts still baffles me to this day. Talk about an independent thinker. Gosh, the man is a bleading liberal who funded his best friend’s “W” republican presidential campaign while at the same time a registered democrat who gives big money to democrat campains. Moreover, the man is married to a darkskinned black woman who is afrocentric, and he has two obviously black daughtes (not passers) who graduated from Yale also and one is a huge socilite in NYC. Talk about unpredictable. He’s definately an anomolly. Go figure hah.
———————
Author: abagond
Comment:
A black man marrying a white woman does not have the stigma that a white man marrying a black woman has. They are not mirror images of each other – because of the One Drop Rule and because whites hold a higher position in society. There is a stain to being black or part black, but not to being white or part white.
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Blanc2,
Some AMERICAN WM may “PREFER” OR “BE ATTRACTED” to dark skinned BW but MOST WON’T SERIOUSLY DATE OR MARRY THEM due to ANTI-BW COWARDICE and/or ANTI-BW RACISM (or a combination of both). That has CONSISTENTLY been my REAL LIFE experience for the MANY years I’ve lived in America.
In contrast, MOST AMERICAN WM will marry OTHER NON-WW (Asian, “white/light or non-Black looking Hispanics, Middleeastern, Native American, etc.) because they don’t FEAR being STIGMATIZED since these are ACCEPTABLE minorities in America.
Sarah,
Thanks for so clearly illustrating the point that American WM who are ATTRACTED TO BW and don’t give in to ANTI-BW COWARDICE or ANTI-BW RACISM DO MARRY BW (of any shade) regardless of what ANYONE thinks or ANY potential negative consequences. If ALL AMERICAN WM who claim to be attracted to BW had the HONEST, COURAGEOUS, PRO-BW mindset of Ronald Betts (referenced in Sarah’s comment above), BW/WM relationships would have a greater chance of being mainstreamed in American culture.
I have a great deal of respect for Ronald Betts because he RISKED MARRYING his dark skinned Black wife when he was in his PRIME and stood to LOSE his position of privilege. Clearly, he genuinely loved his wife.
I am less trusting of American WM who claim to be attracted to BW but will only consider SERIOUSLY DATING and/or MARRYING them when it’s CONVENIENT/LESS RISKY FOR THEM (ie. after a 1st marriage to a WW or NON-BW or when they’re much older and PAST THEIR PRIME).
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Eh, “most” white American aren’t thinking about non-white women. Period.
If you’re saying that they’d marry a non-black minority before a black woman, you’d have a point. Yet, that’s all relative. At the end of the day, few white men are interested in marrying or dating a non-white woman. I don’t neccessarily think that is racist at its core. Remember the vast majority of white people live in an overwhelmingly white environment so nine times out of ten, that’s what they wind up with.
“Dark skinned” is very relative. Everyone doesn’t look at or consider skin color the same way you do. The vast majority of black Americans are “dark” to the typical white person so I’m not sure where you guys are going with that. White-looking blacks are a minority, so of course the few black women who wind up with white spouses will be fairly dark complexioned. Aren’t black people a dark skinned race of people?
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I have to agree with mynameismyname.
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Sarah: Excellent comment!! Ronald Betts is the exception that proves the rule – he makes you see how rare that sort of behaviour is among white men. If whites were as unracist as they like to think they are, there would be far more white men like him.
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As a dark skinned Afrolatina BW in America, my relationship experiences with how American BW/WM interact with each other make it impossible for me to agree with mynameismyname.
Even though it’s true that “the vast majority of black Americans are “dark” to the typical white person” and that the “dark skinned” “light skinned distinction is “RELATIVE”, I have seen MOST AMERICAN WM (who CLAIM TO BE ATTRACTED TO BW) make an OBVIOUS distinction in how they treat “DARK SKINNED” BW AND “LIGHT SKINNED” BW in relationships.
MOST AMERICAN WM may have no problem engaging in a CASUAL, NSA, relationship with a “dark skinned” BW, but these same men will REJECT this type of BW when it comes to SERIOUS dating and/or MARRIAGE.
I find it RIDICULOUS that, MOST AMERICAN WM who CLAIM TO BE ATTRACTED TO BW WOULDN’T SERIOUSLY date and/or marry a “dark skinned” BW like Alek Wek but WOULD consider a SERIOUS dating and/or
marriage relationship with a “light skinned” woman like Alicia Keys.
I consider this mindset IRRATIONAL and STUPID but my relationship life (and that of other dark skinned BW) has been too NEGATIVELY affected by it to PRETEND it isn’t REAL.
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I figured that Laromana’s viewpoint was shaped by her own personal experiences. As it should be, I guess.
For perspective, I’ve RARELY seen a black woman as white-appearing as Alicia Keys with a white man. 95% of the the time those types date a black man who is much, much darker and “traditionally black”-looking than they are. No question.
Alek Wek is actually engaged to a white man and has a had a string of white mates. Ditto for many other similar looking black women.
Again, I won’t dispute anyone’s personal experiences as I didn’t live them, you did. However, I do think your experiences may counter the majority of IR relationships involving black women and white men. The few who do end up together.
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I certainly don’t mean to discount Laromana’s experience. However, my personal experience, as well as my observation of others, is consistent with Mynameismyname.
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mynameismyname and Blanc2,
The life experiences I’ve referenced regarding how MOST AMERICAN WM may have no problem engaging in a CASUAL, NSA, relationship with a “dark skinned” BW, but these same men will REJECT this type of BW when it comes to SERIOUS dating and/or MARRIAGE are NOT ISOLATED to MY PERSONAL EXPERIENCES ALONE. I belong to several BW EMPOWERMENT blogs where MANY other BW in AMERICA have had the SAME experiences I’ve cited.
Also, I’ve stated that EUROPEAN WM have NO ISSUE with (and seem to prefer) establishing SERIOUS relationships and/or MARRIAGE with “darker skinned” BW (eg. Alek Wek).
I do agree that in 2009 (and in the past few years) there are MORE AMERICAN WM (who claim to be attracted to BW )who are LESS AFRAID of being seen in a SERIOUS relationship and/or MARRIAGE with a “darker skinned” BW (and I’m very encouraged by this CHANGE), but this is still the EXCEPTION not the RULE.
Of course I (and other BW like me) would love to see ALL WM (who claim to be attracted to BW) adopt this racially progressive and courageous attitude in their relationships with us.
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Not trying to start trouble, but screaming (writing in all caps) and righteous indignation are generally a turnoff to men of all colors.
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Lynette,
Of course there’s instances of white men being involved with heavily mixed-appearing black women.
Yet, just as you pointed out a while ago, the vast majority of black women do not look that way. This also plays a part in why the ambigious/white-looking black females usually don’t pair up with white men. Usually, those types are with another black person who is much darker than they are.
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True. Black women come in a variety of shades, so it makes sense that the small minority of white men who “go black” would be with black women who look a variety of ways.
But still, more times often than not, the white men who go for black women seem to believe in the adage, “the blacker the berry the sweeter the juice!”. Ditto for their more numerous female counterparts!
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I have to side with Mynameismyname and Blanc2. But that is based on what I see in public. It is hard to read the intention of these men, which is what Laromana is getting at and what she has experienced first-hand.
I find it interesting that there seems to be a male/female split in the perceptions on this one.
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sitting in a sidewalk cafe on friday eating lunch my girlfriend (she is mixed race black and swedish) we notice a beautiful black women with deep chocolate skin walk in with a very white looking lawyer or banker type man.
They are obviously more than coworkers by the way he pulls out her chair and pays attention to her.
My coworkers comments that he likes em dark…
I said – maybe he likes all sort of women and likes her pecause of who she is not because she is dark?
My coworkers response was that if he is with a women like that its cause he likes them dark.
I didnt quit understand completely. I would never choose a mate based on race.
On a side note _ I do not know laromon but her demenor on this board makes me agree with Truth B. Told – her experience with men may not be completely related to her skin or race.
Lynette – you always present a logical and well thought out point of view that helps me consider things from another person persepective. It is discussion like yours and abagonds that brings me to this blog
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Debabets,
I agree, Lynette is wonderful. An asset to this blog’s comments.
What about me?? LOL. Hopefully, some of the POV that I present on this board on various topics give at least some food for thought to readers. I know that posts by Lynette and Ann sure have given me some.
I also wanted to add to our mini-discussion: it’s not just white men, it really appears that non-black men of other ethniticies also like Dedabets’ co-worker says, “like ’em dark”. I’ve observed and talked to many Middle Eastern, East Asian, South Asian and non-black Hispanic men. I can say with assuredness that when they cited a black woman as beautiful and/or dated/pursued a black women, “light skinned” or whatever was FARR from the equation.
It’s interesting that some of the black female posters on this blog as well as Dedabets’ black female co-worker appear to disbelieve or reject the idea of any man possibly “preferring” dark (black) over light (white). What does that say?
I notice that attitude with a lot of black American women. It’s as if it seems incomprehensible to them that anyone could “pass” on “light-white” for “black”. Is it just a reaction shaped by living in an pro-white, anti-black country or a reflection their own internalized (often subconscious) ideas on color and race?
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I have to say i find this thread “objectionable” as a black woman (good looking,single and happy) it pathologises other black woman and seems to play out a “What is wrong with black women” scenario, that’s how i feel.
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I don’t believe laromana was writing her comment entirely in caps. So she was not screaming to make a point. I don’t think she has a problem with men period. She just has a problem with they way Black women are portrayed. It’s like is there any positive stereotype we can benefit from? lol
For perspective, I’ve RARELY seen a black woman as white-appearing as Alicia Keys with a white man. 95% of the the time those types date a black man who is much, much darker and “traditionally black”-looking than they are. No question.
I agree mynameismyname. I have seen this more often as well. Same with white women, they tend to date the more darker skin black men.
It’s interesting that some of the black female posters on this blog as well as Dedabets’ black female co-worker appear to disbelieve or reject the idea of any man possibly “preferring” dark (black) over light (white). What does that say?
I notice that attitude with a lot of black American women. It’s as if it seems incomprehensible to them that anyone could “pass” on “light-white” for “black”. Is it just a reaction shaped by living in an pro-white, anti-black country or a reflection their own internalized (often subconscious) ideas on color and race?
Word to this. It’s always a damn why? When someone dates a sista of a darker hue lol. No one seems to question a man choosing a woman that has a light complexion. I’m offended by that. This reminds me of people arguing about Michelle Obama being with Barack Obama.
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lifeisannoying said:
I have to say i find this thread “objectionable” as a black woman (good looking,single and happy) it pathologises other black woman and seems to play out a “What is wrong with black women” scenario, that’s how i feel.
The post I wrote that started this thread was written against that kind of pathologizing. That in turn drew in some white men who did not like being called racist (even though some of them plainly were racist). It seems that had the effect of pushing the argument back onto black women.
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I think that my coworker wasnt suprised that he preferred darker black over lighter black.
She was saying men who are with a darker black women prefer dark over light – as in a fetish of some sort as in exclusive.
I was bothered by this not because the women was dark and I somehow thought it odd he likes darker women. I am not suprised that a man found this women beautiful. She had amazing deep chocolate skin with a golden glow that was healthy and amazingly sexy. She can wear colors that I would love to wear but on me would make me look ill – almost green.
I was bothered by the assumption that it was her skin color alone that brought the two together. when she said – oh he likes them dark…my response was – maybe he likes her conversation and intellect, or her eyes, or her smile…or a 100 other things. There is so much more to a women than skin color, or butt or boobs. I garner lots of attention because of my backside. My husband of 13 years often jokes he doesnt know what color my eyes are but knows each freckle on my backside. I am more than that and I find it annoying.
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dani,
Thanks for your intelligent, insightful defense of the comments I’ve made. To those of you who don’t know me but are quick to make attacking, judgmental assumptions about my motives, I want to assure you that I don’t have ANYTHING against men (of ANY race) and I NEVER claimed that All American WM ONLY serously date and/or marry light skinned BW.
Please read my comments more carefully before drawing the WRONG conclusions. Also, it would be refreshing to see BW’s truthful insights (based on their actual experiences) be accepted/respected instead of being dismissed solely because they don’t enhance the image of certain groups.
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Wow, there must be much pent-up anger in the old US of A. Much of the above discussion would pass as spirited debate in Europe, while here people are accused of racism.
There does seem to be a predelection on some people’s part to make racism a whites-only sin. I guess these people haven’t encountered many south-east Asians or read, eg, about the predicament of Africans in China. Colour, ditto: at uni our female Vietnamese classmates explained that they keep out of the sun to avoid getting a tan, because light skin is the ideal. In Asia, peasants are tanned and high-class people are light.
At the same time, those thinking Oriental women are submissive are deluding themselves. There is certainly little puffed-up strutting by women in those cultures, but the women are tough as nails under their constant smile.
Which is fine by me, as I have no idea why anyone would want a submissive partner. For me, relationships work best if there is balance in certain things. I want my partner to be an equal intellectually, temperamentally, in libido, but for me superficial racial differences have been an attraction. I have dated Africans, a Papuan, SE Asians, South American mulatas (note Spanish spelling indicating no negative connotation), a Gypsy, as well as “white” women. I was engaged to an African and a mulata, but pulled out due to personality differences (and despite the strong physical attraction).
I find the above debate about the skin-tone preferences of WM baffling. For me, all skin tones can be (have been) attractive, all the way to the BLACK (not brown) colour of people in New Ireland (Papua New Guinea). Skin tone is just one component of attraction anyway, in addition to features, shape, to say nothing of deeper characteristics.
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Like I said inmy first post I’m Bi-racial Mother is White , Father Blacl(african american) I Look more Black then White , However my Hair is A Different Story its not Pure Negro Hair so Its between Black & White Hair.
I’m the Color of A Native American maybe even Darker , Have my Dad Fetures & all.
All my Boyfriends have been White or Indian ..
I now in my 20’s I’m 27 yrs old , I love Only Black men , Any Black man thats Brown Skined , Walnut Color , Or Midnight Dark Dark Or as I call tyhem Chocolate Dark …..lol , But Strangely I Do not like Light skined Black Men ……lol
I like A Black man with Some Color to him ..lol & It could be cause I’ve dated White & other Races that Now seen A light Skined Black Male Don’t Interest me they remind me of White guys , Not that I ever had any Bad Experiences with Them , Its just that I now Just Likely to Perfer Brown Or Darker Black Men over light damn Near white looking Black men.
It also could be because My Mother is White & so I see more White Males then most , So I no longer is attracted to light skin ……LOL funny but True .
But I do Notice alot of Darker Black Girl’s date Light Skin Guys over Darker Black Men.
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^^^
Proves my point. Most black girls I’ve known who were product of black/white marriage were the same way.
Yeah, many dark brown black women do wind up with light-colored black men. But not all the time. Now, if there are any motives behind that, that’s in the eye of the beholder.
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Euro in Oz:
Wow, I have never met a Papuan woman. Are there any good-looking ones famous enough to have their picture on the Internet?
For further bafflement about skin tones see my post on colourism:
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Could the attraction of Dark Skin girls to light skinned men, or vic versa be a simple matter of attraction to something different than you? Like a vase of flowers with blue and yellow flowers – the contrasting colors highlight and make each other all the more beautiful? Its not always about hate or racisim.
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It can be that simple, Dedabets. And while there is no denying that colorism is real, I think way too many people use it as a rallying cry when in fact they probably have more personal issues that are affecting them and their ability to attract others to them.
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Dedabets,
I’ve already suggested on this blog a while ago that opposites often attract. Joy of contrast. I’ve mentioned that before numerous times. Perhaps, you overlooked those posts.
Truth,
I agree. Colorism is real but I’m not sure if anyone can honestly cite the shade of their skin as the source of their individual fortunes or misfortunes. Despite all of the prejudices surrounding race in this world, each individual’s life direction is dependent on them.
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mynameis – I saw your posts – you are always a balanced and insightful contributor. If I have not responded in the past its probably because I didnt have anything other than “OH – I didnt think of that” or “I didnt know that” to say – and didnt want to waste a comment box with that. I enjoy reading other peoples points of view and value yours, especially because our POV differ.
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i should say – especially because our POVs sometimes differ – being surrounded by people who share your pov can only blind you to the real world.. i.e. “the emperor has no clothes”
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Thank you Dadabets,
I also gain insight from your posts. I try not to stifle myself into displaying one singular POV. I actually consider the various viewpoints of others before shaping my own. (This has worked to my detriment in the past.) There is no right or wrong way to look at something. But there is a logical way verses an illogical way. I try to interepet things in the logical way, ultimately.
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But personally I Just think its A persons Preference of who they’re Attracted to rather they’re Vlack or White or Dark Or light , i do not think its about color in General cause the fact is I’ve seen Mant Dark men & Dark Back women together so like someone said not all dark Skin black women date or marry lighter Skin black men , I Just Personally think its A persons preference as well as who you’re Attractive too.
Just like My Mother was attracted to my father who so happend to be A Black man & My Mother herself have said that She finds Black men more attractive & so shes always have Dated Black Men , But it wasn’t due to him been A Race of Another Color it was more of The Attractiveness then Race .
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People have their preferences but there is also an overlay of racism or colourism that affects them to some degree, affecting some more than others.
If it was all just a matter of in-built preferences, then white American men would prefer black women just as much as white European men do, but they do not.
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abagond: re Papuan women.
I don’t know of any internationally famous Melanesian beauties. PNG is not best known for pretty girls, although there is a huge variety of ethnicities, and some coastal regions are better known for attractive people. But here is Miss PNG 2009 for you: http://www.flickr.com/search/?q=antonnia+singut&w=all&s=int&referer_searched=1 . I have seen more beautiful women in PNG and also in the Solomon Islands – although not lots.
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Wow, she looks black!
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This article is bull, and has no merit what so ever and is most likely based on statistic numbers from a survey of white American racist men. The only trueness about it is that white men are afraid of what their family and friends will say if they dated or married a black woman, that’s why many of them secretly and slyly keep their desires about being with a black woman undercover, but they will talk about it amongst their white male friends. They are afraid to approach a black woman in fear that she may reject them. I am a light skin, naturally pretty, friendly black woman. I work at a diverse fortune 500 company, and I get looks from black, asian, indian and mostly white men on a daily basis; draw dropping, I wish I could get with you type of looks – so white men thinking black women aren’t as attractive as other races is a LIE. You need to do better research – history shows that white men are attracted and have always been attracted to black women since slavery days…how in the world do you think light skin black people got their color. I’ll tell you – from being raped by racist white men, their so called masters as they called themselves. I’ve seen more hershey chocolate colored black women with white men than a light skinned sister. There are lots of black women with high profile jobs, making the money. I have several dark skin female friends that work at prestigious companies in well paying roles: VP of HR, HR Generalist, Departmental Manager, RN’s, Flight Attendant. More white men are marring, dating black women more than ever, because black women are dating out of their race more so now. For the record….most black women don’t care about black men dating, marring other races; black women have their choice of any man in any race; they will be with the man that respects them and treat them like the queens that they are – and this should go for any woman of any race. The color of a person’s skin really shouldn’t matter. Reading through some of these posts I personally find some of it the ranting of ignorance. Yes everyone has a right to their own point of view; however, verbally attacking each other is useless and childish. We can comment on each others posting with out being verbally abusive. Posters you have to remember that the author of this blog is just trying to have a successful blog by writing about such a Hot topic. And I will have to say well done to him for achieving so, even thought his blog is based on untrue statistic numbers. The poster that stated something about – it is sad how black women are treated in America…(not the exact wording) sweetheart the only people that treat black women ugly are white women and other female races…only because they have finally realized that their race of men are getting with and find black women just as attractive as they are. The reader that stated he doesn’t think that ghetto black women are attractive; I agree with that too, no one is attractive when they carry on in that manner…..and for the record GHETTO is a state of mind it has nothing to do with race. I’ve seen females in other races with that GHETTO mentality as well. Every race has their good and bad, their pretty and ugly group of people, so what may be considered as attractive to one person may not be attractive to the next…come on people every one is attractive in their own way; besides true beauty comes from the inside, and if you are secure within yourself no matter what color your skin is, then you are beautiful and you have your choice of any one in any race. Me myself after years of dating dark chocolate men, I now have the taste for other flavors. This is a new century more and more people are dating outside of their realm. Some of us are realizing that we can have any flavor we want. And so many of us are still limiting ourselves to one flavor because of fear of what their family and friends may think. I say to that – shame on you, don’t let other people no matter who they are dictate who you should date or marry, live your life the way you want to it’s yours God gave it to you. His word says not to mix yourselves with those who aren’t like you….which means those who aren’t of Him – (It has nothing to do with the color of the skin). Wake up and live your life, experience all the different flavors out there, you never know which one may end up being your favorite.
Take care.
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Renee wrote, “This is a new century more and more people are dating outside of their realm. Some of us are realizing that we can have any flavor we want. And so many of us are still limiting ourselves to one flavor because of fear of what their family and friends may think. I say to that – shame on you, don’t let other people no matter who they are dictate who you should date or marry, live your life the way you want to it’s yours God gave it to you. ”
Here! Here! Can I get an amen to that?! 🙂
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Another thing, why when people talk about race, racism it’s always about black people this, black people aren’t this or that, or not viewed by white people as attractive or intelligent as other races, aren’t better than other races. It’s always about black people and white people; we are always being butted against each others race. I say we black people really have it going on to be talked badly about so much. Stop hating on black people, black women – jealousy is just jealousy. We can’t help it if we are just too Sexy for your asses. Seriously think about it, while we continue to fight against one another, the other races are looking and waiting for us to destroy each other while they move forward. Get a grip people skin color is not that serious….we all need blood, air to live amongst other things. We all have the same type of life issues in our races. And there is one thing that we all will do one day….Die, and so how can any one race believe that they are better than the next. When death comes, it’s not going to say lets leave the white man and take the black man because the white man is better he should have the best of every thing. The black man should pay more for everything, he should struggle to survive and the white man should get it easy – No death has no since of skin color, it doesn’t care about race, it’s going to take you no matter what color your skin is. We all have something to contribute to this universe, and no one contribution is bigger and better than the next.
Take care.
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Regina….Amen 🙂
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i agree regina – in the end we are the same…and we allneed to get beyound race to the heart of people which is what matters.
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I just want to say that Abagond, I absolutely love reading your blog. It has helped me realize my beauty of a black (nigerian born, american raised) woman. It is all too true that eurocentric standards permeate the black conscience; something we have to slowly rebuild.
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I’m going to play devil’s advocate,
Has anyone ever considered that it may be flawed to indicate the level of racism that white American men possess by the percentage that they marry black women?
Who’s to say that a white man who’s interested or involved with a black woman ISN’T racist?
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@ Renee: So you are saying that the main reason white men do not marry black women is because they are cowards?
@ DaliSalvadorAde: I am glad you love reading my blog!
@ mynameismyname: Some white men who marry black are most certainly racist. Yet they cannot be all that racist since their own children will most likely be black.
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I’ve known of plently instances where whites who had black children were as racist as any one other white person. For better or worse, marrying or procreating with a non-white person doesn’t always eradicate the internal racial biases that whites tend to have.
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Procreating I can see – that only takes five minutes for a man and can be done in the heat of the moment. But are you saying that even white men who are married to black women and have black children with them can be just as racist as any other white person? I would think they would less racist on the whole.
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Hello, Abagond.
I have not been by your site in a while (had a loooovely vacation in Norway, and I am still coming back to the reality of America). Hope all has been well with you.
Mynameismyname:
“I’ve known of plently instances where whites who had black children were as racist as any one other white person. For better or worse, marrying or procreating with a non-white person doesn’t always eradicate the internal racial biases that whites tend to have.”
Well said.
Laying up with a Black person *does not* mean a White person is not racist, nor that they have gotten over latent racism they harbor against Black people.
Whites can be *lovers* (and I use the word lovers with extreme reservation) of one Black in particular, and still have hatred of other Blacks.
Abagond:
“But are you saying that even white men who are married to a black women and have black children with them can be just as racist as any other white person? I would think they would less racist on the whole.”
Sorry, Abagond, but, you would be mislead.
There are many instances of Whites laying up with/shacking up with/marrying Blacks………where the White was just as racist as a White not with a Black person.
Ever wonder what many of those White men who led/participated in lynch mobs against Black men were doing when they were not murdering Black men? Many of them would lay up with a Black woman, get her pregnant, often abandon or neglect that child——-and then those same White men would be the first to lead a brutal, sadistic lynching against a defensleess Black man (often under the lie to *protect White womanhood*), after that same White man laid up with a Black woman.
Does the name Strom Thurmond ring a bell with you?
He laid up with and had a child with a 15-year-old Black girl who was a maid in his family’s household. He denied that child to the world, all the while writing into law segregationist laws against Blacks.
Ever heard of the Abner Louima case of New York City? One of the White cops who brutalized this Haitian man (shoving a broomstick up his rectum), was living with a Black woman.
Just because a White person lays down with a Black person does not mean that White person is not racist. This mentality has been in existence in America for centuries. The using of Black bodies for White gratification.
Whites are taught from childhood to vilify and denigrate “blackness”, so the use of a Black person’s body has not ceased, even in 2009 America.
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To Laroma and Mynameismyname:
Thanks for the kind compliments 🙂
Hope I did not miss anyone, as I did not read through all of the many comments above.
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No problem, Ann.
You’re one of the best posters on this blog. I see that you have your own weblog. Can’t wait to read!
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Correction: I should have typed, “Hear! Hear!” instead of “Here! Here!”
Sorry…
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I agree with the argument that whites can marry and have children with a black person, yet still be racist.
I’ve encountered white women who were married to black men, had half black children, yet would show disdain towards black women. They would make it a point to let me know that they were married to black men, implying (and in some cases openly stating) that they were more desirable than black women. I always wondered how they behaved around their black mother-in-law and sisters-in-laws.
Even though my boyfriend is white, and I’ve dated white guys in the past, I’ve never felt the need to broadcast to white women (or any woman for that matter) that I’m involved with a white man.
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@Regina:
“I’ve encountered white women who were married to black men, had half black children, yet would show disdain towards black women. They would make it a point to let me know that they were married to black men, implying (and in some cases openly stating) that they were more desirable than black women. I always wondered how they behaved around their black mother-in-law and sisters-in-laws.”
Good point.
It is often White women who behave this way.
Never have I seen a Black woman shove into people’s faces their involvement with a White man, or man of another race.
Makes me wonder if the world’s so-called *superior race of women* don’t have much confidence in their ability to hold onto a man except for their white skin that they bring into a relationship. Talk about a shakey relationship.
I often wonder how do these women treat their Black mother-n-law? If that Black son allows his White *wife* to castigate Black women in his presence, it says a lot about him as well.
Any man who has not the balls to stand up to a woman who denigrates the women of his own race (and especially his female relatives), is a coward of the worst kind to me.
Then again, some White women are not so secure in their *whiteness*.
There was a blogger who posts on IRs, who posted a comment from a White woman who went to Europe with some Black female friends. To that White woman’s amazement (or as she termed it: “Can’t understand why the white European men went for the Black girls, instead of her”),it shocked and surprised her that the European men did not run over the Black women to get to her. She, like so many White American women had been told that she was better than Black women, and she had her bubble burst when she saw the interest white European men gave Black American women.
But, yes, this behaviour is something I see with some White women, moreso than White men.
And I have yet to see a Black woman flaunt her relationship with a White/non-Black man in people’s faces.
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abagond Says:
@ Renee: So you are saying that the main reason white men do not marry black women is because they are cowards?
Abagond – Yes to your above question. I would say that is the case for any man of any race and to anyone who let other people dictate who they should marry.
I also agree with this statement as well- “whites can marry and have children with a black person, yet still be racist”.
Regna wrote: Good point.
It is often White women who behave this way.
Never have I seen a Black woman shove into people’s faces their involvement with a White man, or man of another race.
Makes me wonder if the world’s so-called *superior race of women* don’t have much confidence in their ability to hold onto a man except for their white skin that they bring into a relationship. Talk about a shakey relationship.
Good point Regina – I concurr, I’ve never seen or met a black woman talk about she is married to a white man or to any other race of man. But I have seen and heard white women state how they are married to a black man. Heck I was having a conversation with someone and this other white woman walked up and said “he only dates white women”. She said it like she was so proud. The other woman and I both looked and said “whoopdi do for him, and your point is?”
White women who are married to black men and even the ones who aren’t talk about how black men marry white women like black men are the greatest things walking the earth. For the most part black women don’t care who the black man marries. When you see a white woman with a black man the woman looks at you like she really got a prize and the black man look at you like he knows you and think you will get Ghetto on him. Everytime I encounter that, I think to my self I hope he is with her because he loves her and not because her skin is white and because he wants to have a mixed kids.
There are a very small group of blacks who don’t like to see their race date other races, just as any other race has their group that feels the same way. But when it comes down to it, people talk so much just to be talking. How many times have we seen white people helping black people in a time of cisis and vice versa. People are people and deep down all the racist people out there know it. You put the racist white man alone with a black man in a room and I guarantee they come out friends or at least respectful to each others race.
When a white man get with a black woman he has this swagger about him as to say I have a beautiful black queen. I’ve talked with a lot of white men that say they love black women.
Even thought this is a new century there is still a lot of racism out there, and you know what that’s ok…because if we all believed in the same thing then no one would have anything to talk about. And I still say that Black people as a whole must be an awesome race, because every time racism comes up it always has something to do with black people. You look around the world you see what’s on television, you realize that everyone wants that black swagger.
Competition is Compettion no matter what we all are competing about. But one thing is for sure…in the end if you can’t love your brother and sister know matter what their skin color is….you can’t love God, because we all are made in His image. In the end….God has the last say on which race is superior over the other. Now check that out.
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Ann: Strom Thurmond is a bad example because he did not marry that maid, but I think you and the other commmenters made the point well enough that you can marry another race and still be strongly racist.
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A beautiful woman is a beautiful woman, regardless of skin tone. I’m a white guy.
Although, that green skinned chick in the new Star Trek movie wasn’t very attractive to me, but I don’t think that has to do with race so much as it has to do with it not looking like a human flesh tone. That and her obviously being a bit of a skank. Personality plays a huge role in attraction for me.
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I’m a white/native American….”white guy” from the west coast. I traveled through the south and wowzers! some gorgeous very dark black women… different culture in the south. There are gorgeous women in every race if you pay attention. but finding a sound woman and right relationship…is another story
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to renee: hell yah and we are on the rise…..the KKK doubled in size in the last years
the SPLC reports there are an estimated 150+ skinhead gangs in the u.s. which puts the total skinhead gangs in the u.s. which is more than all black gangs combined
******* even black man dont even date their own race. what does that tell you when black men wont even date black women?
white = beautiful
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Hello Abagond:
Today, 6/5/2009, is the first day that I have truly read your blog in detail, since my first posting in January (post #110).
And I see a Uncle Milton in post #262 has posted a comment on my post wherein he tries to calculate my age and he reached an erroneous age of 82 years. His error occurs because, he omitted the estimated date when my grandmother would have given birth to my mother.
Instead, he substitutes the date that my grandmother gave birth to my mother as the date that my mother gave birth to me allowing Uncle Milton to falsely estimate that I am 82 years old.
I do not know why this Uncle Milton was doing these calculations but, just wanted to post this correction to his errors.
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Being a woman of the Black race, I know Black women are beautiful because I am beautiful and I am like fine dark chacolate. Reader and Listener can you hear me?
I agree with many of you, I feel white men don’t marry black woman because of two reasons: Media sterotypes and Black womens’ willingness to date other races.
Personally, I just got married to a black man, but for a long time I could not find a desent black man. Again, I am beautiful, educated, and I am finnacially stable; however, black men seemed to pass me by. Finally, I came to a point where I decided that I was no longer going to wait on a man. Once, I said this, my black husband came along. The point of the story is, don’t look for love, let love find you, and most defiently don’t look for a certain race.
I know Black women tend to wait almost for ever for their black man. As a black woman, I always dreamed of having and raising my own beautiful black chidlren. I truly feel black is beautiful, not because I am racist but, because I am comfortable in my own skin. However, this is the problem with white women that has to yell to the world that they have a black man or any race prancing around in others faces, talking about thier man or female. I have no problem with white men dating black women or vs versa because love comes in all colors. I just hate when another races marry another race only because they want to prove that they are not racists.
Yes, biracial children are beautiful, but so are white, Asian, black and other races of children. People have to remember that God did not make only one race, but many beautiful races of people. And I know for a fact that heaven will not be seggregated.
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Why white men don’t marry black women? We’re certainly not racist. We just think that black women are ugly as fuck. Seriously, white boys read National Geographic not to jack off, as many tits are in there, but really more than anything delighting in the primitive and juvenile culture of sub-Saharan Africans. But really who could fall in love with a woman whose tits hang down longer than an Amish man’s beard?
I grew up in Texas. I heard about racism all my life, especially about people in the South. Truth is, white men prefer white women. But the vast majority of the ones I have known in my life have been interested in Hispanic women, Asian women, Indian women, all kinds of women. I personally like Mexican girls. I’d prefer to be in a relationship with a white girl but Mexican is fine too. I have black friends, male and female. There’s even a black girl I know who’s pretty attractive, I think, but black women to me are off-limits. I have no problem with black people, in fact I even think a lot of black men are very attractive in the sense that they’re athletic, muscular, strong, fit, exceptional and notable specimens of the capability of the human body and human limits.
I’m not racist in the least, I despise being called it. I think it is fair to say on behalf of white men that we are by no means racist, and in fact openly seek relationships with colored women, but we very simply think black women are ugly.
And nobody has any place to tell me anything. I’ve been called ugly my fair share of times, in fact more than my fair share of times, throughout my life. Before schooling me in the ways of my racist and ignorant open rejection of black women as love interests, take a look in the mirror and consider the plausible dates you have turned down, the same guy or girl who has been turned down all of his or her life, that you rejected, because I assure you the rejection of an entire race by one person does not hurt as bad as the rejection felt by the one person being rejected by an entire society.
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In my life experience as a BW in the U.S., I have discovered that the so called “lack of attraction that MOST WM have for BW” is due mainly to the history of ANTI-BW RACISM and/or ANTI-BW COWARDICE that has been cultivated in the culture.
I’m not convinced that MOST AMERICAN WM are born with this ANTI-BW bias because, as Abagond said, BW ARE WOMEN (whether or not WM choose to seriously date and/or marry BW).
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John,
The fact that you single out ALL BW as being “ugly” ( which, in reality, isn’t ACTUALLY TRUE)and that the American WM you’ve known have been open to relationships with ALL women EXCEPT FOR BW are perfect examples of the ANTI-BW RACISM/HATE that has historically been (and continues to be) a real aspect of American culture. Your ANTI-BW RACISM/HATE towards the beauty of ALL BW is an ABNORMAL, LEARNED behaviour that is not shared by ALL WM on the planet.
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@ John ,
I’m half white & Black & Othough I don’t hang around many black girls due to been treated badly by them , I’am going to Defend my Black Queens , I’am very Offended by your comment of calling Blacking Black women been Ugly cause you’re Basically calling me who’s Father is Black Ugly too so its Offensive even for me .
There are many Black women who are Beautiful such as Mary J. Blige Who I think is So Beautiful & then if you go To Africa They have the most Beautiful Dark mid-night Chocolate Women you’ll ever see they are Beautiful People .
So your comment is Probably even Ofensive to some White Women incluing my Mother who Read it , I’m commenting it ..lol
How dare you call All Black Women Ugly when Theres A Verity of Color in the Black Community You can Fine A Black Woman who look damn near White & then you have some Like Mary J , & then you Have The Dark Chocolate Black Women Who I think Are Just Beautiful .
So it just shows you’re Ignorant .. Go & Learn about Black peole & the Varieties they have ..lol
stupid Idiot ;-(
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laromana, candace… i have a friend who is a black girl. she is a great person. i have a black guy friend who is one of my best friends. i have no problem with the people, i just don’t find them attractive. i used to have several black friends i hung out with just about everyday. you can call me racist as much as you want, but my actions say otherwise. i had one black friend who was a great friend and we’d drink and smoke together and he was huge and probably benched 350 pounds and could rip me to pieces but he was a gentle man. i just tell you this to say i have no problem with black people but i don’t find BW attractive other than a select few like tyra banks when she was younger.
if you want to talk about the pervasive element of racism in the culture, we should first remember Sherman Hemsley aka George Jefferson of the Jeffersons in the late-70s, when it was widely regarded as comedy to call Tom Willis a honky.
it is funny to call whites honkies and crackers, and indeed, carlos mencia, chris rock, and other comedians have made careers out of ridiculing the white people of North America.
i don’t know that white skin is superior in any way and like i said before, black men are remarkable examples of the power of the human body.
call me racist if you like. the truth is evident in my words. i have black friends, i have had many black friends over the years, and if i really want to be honest with myself and you two here… then it’s fair to say my attraction to black women notwithstanding, the ones i might find attractive i would have little chance at marrying or dating anyway.
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John,
Having Black friends doesn’t negate that fact that you are an ANTI-BW RACIST. You stated in your post that ALL BW are ugly. That is an UNTRUE, ANTI-BW, RACIST statement. Whether or not you are attracted to or choose to have relationships with BW, the fact remains that there are beautiful BW just as there are beautiful women of ANY race.
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Ha!
The whole “I’m not racist, I have black friends” line!
“Black men are so powerful”! It gets no better! The whole “physical black buck” stereotype. Wow.
This blog really attracts modern white racists!
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John ,
Having Black friends don’t make you Not Racist , Thats A old trick of the Trade whenever A white person calls out A racist Comment the first Shit they say is I have Black friends , Which to me Don;t take away from you thinking the way you think RIGHT?
Hell I know many White ppl Including My Grandpaw who had Black friends But when My Mother had my Sister & I he Disowned her & Us for Years Until now because He was A Racist Asshole who Only looked at Black people as His Maids & Cooks ….lol True .
It wasn’t until early 00’s is when he Started Accepting His Black Biracial Grandchilden Including My Auunts & Cousins kids who are Biracial.
So so set here telling us The most oldest Trick of the trade The Damn ” I HAVE BLACK FRIENDS” like its going to take aay at the fact You think all BLack women are Ugly .
Hell I’ve seen many Black FINE Brothaz walking along side Fat Ugly white Women Or Even Some Skiny Trashy looking Poor White Trash …
So Theres many Ugly ass White women ..lol
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So I suppose you calling black women “ugly” is a way to make yourself feel better, because you wouldn’t have much of a chance with them otherwise? Hmm sort of like a defense mechanism. Interesting…. I personally never understood how SOME people can call a whole group ugly without having ever seen ALL of them. I do usually notice this type disgruntled attitude (African, Native American, Asian etc. men/women are ugly)among those that are often REJECTED by some members of the said group… Though it is quite possible for a person to be attracted to a certain type, they usually just say “well I’m just not attracted to x”, they don’t come up with various insults and stereotypes to justify their reasoning quite often this is done when the person has some kind of “issue” with that group..
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John ,
Plus many Black women don’t like White men , I’m Myself Who’s Biracial Black & White Don’t like White Guys , I Love me some Chocolate Brothaz for real , & thats why? many of Black women are & tend to stay single , some do & date Latino or Hispanic or Puerto Rican , But its Rare to see many
BlacK Sistaz dating A white guy .
I personally have dated Whites guys in my younger days in Junior High ..lol However it was A Black guy That turned me into Loving Black men .
So its True Once you go Black you’ll never ever want to Go Back & Its true .
Thats why? so many White girl’s go crazy when A Nigga hit it & then try to Leave them …lol true .
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I can’t speak for all white men but for me African American women just turn me on so much more than white women. It started when I was in high school and ran track. I used to interact with BW more often I guess and developed feelings wanting to be with them. I was in the Army later on, where you see more of interacial dating than anywhere else. If I hooked up at a club it was usually with African American women. I went on a date with a BW in the late 80’s and heard all kinds of rude comments from black and white people. It was enough that I never went out with a BW again. What I like about BW are that most will actually tell you how it is without holding back. Some people find this a turn off but I’d rather have the truth than be led with false hopes that everything is okay. BW have been better in bed except for the one (screamer from hell) white woman. I’ve been with about 75 white women and 15 black women. My best friend who is white married a black woman and they’ve been married for 27 years. I just saw a black woman in a restaurant today, and she had on these tight blue jean shorts and high heels. Damn, she was fine. I love Black women I wished I had the balls to marry one.
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I am a white man and the reason I do not date black women is because black women are born PSYCHOTIC. That doesn’t have anything to do with me. Or is that just too complicated for you?
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Well “Reality” it DOES have to do with you because that is YOUR perception, or is THAT just too complicated for YOU to understand?
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Reality2008 Says:
Sat 27 Jun 2009 at 23:49:45
I am a white man and the reason I do not date black women is because black women are born PSYCHOTIC. That doesn’t have anything to do with me. Or is that just too complicated for you?
laromana says,
This is a clear example of the REALITY of the ANTI-BW RACISM/HATE that afflicts many American WM. BW are not to blame for the existence of IRRATIONAL, PSYCHOTIC ANTI-BW RACIST/HATERS.
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There has been a lot of racist haters and racialists posting their poison on BW on this thread of late. These people are just jealous, insecure who cannot express their racial preference without putting down BW. These people have neither the courtesy and courage to really state their narrow racial/gender aesthetic preference.
Laromana,
Thank you so much for putting those haters in their place.
La Reyna
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John (or any white man who thinks most black women are ugly):
If, for the sake of argument, you had the chance to marry one of those few beautiful black women, would you? Would you marry her if she was your only chance to have children, knowing that they all would be black?
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La Reyna,
You’re welcome and thanks for your support.
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I find this website and many of the comments here to be quite offensive. To say that white men are racist is a racist comment in itself. One could just as easily ask why so few black women marry white men. The reason why there are few interracial marriages (between ALL races) is because people are likely to date or marry people with similar cultural interests and backgrounds. Obviously there are many, many factors contributing to your statistics (and I disagree with all six that you presented). Very typical, ignorant, and uneducated generalizations made.
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The more I read, the more I am appalled at the stupidity of most of you. One word: bias. You have to look at both sides of the situation. You could say “White men don’t approach black women.” Or you could say “Black women reject white men’s advances.” You have no idea what happens – none. And you can’t argue from personal experience, because one person’s experience doesn’t mean shit compared to what goes on in all of America, or the world.
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Back to the topic at hand…America is just a historically racist place. Considering its history, it’s not surprising why there is not even more mixing. After 400 years, we should look like Brazil, a true melting pot but we don’t. Everyone at least in America kind of self-segregates in a way, that’s not normal.
It’s sad. Maybe in the distant future, things will get better.
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Brazil is even more racist than the U.S.
Intense “race-mixing” did not provide equality or racial harmony at all.
Look at the history of the Americas. Look how it was discovered. How could anyone expect equality, brotherhood and peace? It contradicts how this country was founded.
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I think one of the largest factors is that people don’t normally cross cultural barriers to meet people – it’s just too much work. Making relationships work is hard enough as it is. Very few white guys and guys in general have the balls to do this. On the other hand, put a reasonably good looking, nice black girl in a mostly white school, and she’ll get LOTS of male attention.
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I truly agree with Myname
mynameismyname Says:
Brazil is even more racist than the U.S.
Intense “race-mixing” did not provide equality or racial harmony at all
I have many friends Afro-brazilians they’re always telling me , how they feel more respected in USA or EU.
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Isaac said,
The more I read, the more I am appalled at the stupidity of most of you. One word: bias. You have to look at both sides of the situation. You could say “White men don’t approach black women.” Or you could say “Black women reject white men’s advances.” You have no idea what happens – none. And you can’t argue from personal experience, because one person’s experience doesn’t mean shit compared to what goes on in all of America, or the world.
laromana said,
Are you INTENTIONALLY ignoring the CLEARLY ANTI-BW RACIST/HATER comments made by John on this post alone or the other examples of ANTI-BW RACISM/HATE from some WM on other posts on abagond’s site? That is STUPIDITY.
The BW who have noted the ANTI-BW RACISM/HATE of MOST WM in America towards them base it on our factual experiences NOT bias. I/these other BW are/have always been OPEN to IRR’s with WM.
It’s clear from the higher numbers of IRR’s between WM and NON-BW that the historical ANTI-BW RACISM/HATE that has ALWAYS been a part of American culture is a factor in how MOST WM view/relate to BW.
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I’ll say this – when I jerk off to porn on the internet, it’s usually white girls or asian girls. sometimes black bettys too but not as much.
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Thanks a million Carl for that lovely tidbit. Now toddle off back to your little porn site and stay there..
Please BW stop hanging around this thread feeling sorry for yourselves and making comments about how noone wants you! It is negative and unattractive. Relax, be happy, enjoy your lives – what will be will be. No decent attractive men (of any race) are here on this site- only losers who secretly get off on fueling your misery. Ignore them, please.
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laromana –
there will always be idiots who will ruin an intelligent conversation, I agree with that.
however, I was addressing the topic of this post: marriage statistics between white men and black women. Abagond states that white men are racist because they marry so few black women. That is unfair, and I suspect its untrue.
From my own experience, I have been rejected by black women before. It could be racism or it could for other reasons. What I’m trying to say is don’t jump to conclusions about an entire group.
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And as for “John” who thinks BW are ugly but praises the physical attributes of BM in at least 2 posts – you are SO gay my friend. LOL! You’re obviously fantasizing about having sex with BM…or your white wife being sexed by one while you watch. Two – as I understand it – VERY common white male fantasies.
Hilarious yet tragic.
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another reason for the low numbers is a larger white population spread over a larger area. the black population is more concentrated in large cities and in the south. there are huge numbers of white people in small towns across the north and midwest where few, if any, black people live, giving the chance to marry or even meet a black woman to be small
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Although I wouldn’t state that ALL WM who claim to be attracted to BW but don’t/won’t marry them are racist, my long term, ongoing experience (and that of MANY BW) with WM in America does support the FACT that MOST/MANY WM in America don’t/won’t marry BW for reasons related to ANTI-BW racism (eg. BW are “ugly”, BW aren’t INDIVIDUALS but STEREOTYPES based on racist lies/myths, etc.) or because they are ANTI-BW cowards (eg. fear losing White privilege, fear what friends, family, or society will say if they marry a BW, etc.).
There is nothing IDIOTIC about acknowledging these facts.
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Orchid,
If that’s the case, explain why every other non-black “racial” minority has a higher rate of IR marriage with whites than blacks do, when blacks make up the largest racial minority? (Notice I say ‘racial minority’, this dispells the whole “Hispanic is the largest minority” when that is not a racial category).
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whats interesting is that in the U.K the amount of white men married to black women is higher than the u.s and more so with mixed black women. in the u.k most asians are actually south asian & due to cultural & religious difference they are less likely to be involved in interracial marriages, although many date interracially.
to be exact about 1/3rd of black caribbean women, 50% mixed black african & white women and 70% mixed black caribbean & white women are married to white men in the u.k. it would seem that interracial marriage is evan more common in countries like Germany where the amount of ethnic minorities is scarce.
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generally i have always found it ironic that black women sometimes blame black men for the fact so many are single. i personally would say that black men approach all kinds on women and do not mean to isolate black women.
i think that white men are more racist in their approach to intteracial dating & care too much about what people think (that being their white family & friends, black men e.t.c). i have been told i’m attractive & i am well educated, but instead the only white guys that approach tend to be those that are only after one thing.
i have known white guys that have told me before that they were unsure whether i would be interested. maybe they should grow some confidence & follow the lead of black men who approach any woman & don’t worry so much about societal pressures. The truth is i just want a great guy be they black or white. but a white guy who either wants me just to try out a black girl or who isn’t confident enough to date a woman of colour just isn’t good enough.
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Anonymous says:
generally i have always found it ironic that black women sometimes blame black men for the fact so many are single. i personally would say that black men approach all kinds on women and do not mean to isolate black women.
I kind of agree with you in certain way( only for the blame thing), but you should admit if there is so many black women single, it’s maybe bcz most of them want to date “a good black man”and most of time they don t want them( I am still talking in UK, even I think it s the same in US).
I don t think it s so terrible, if you want to date someone like you even I also think some bw have to be more open-minded
if black men were really open to date everyone they would be fair with everybody this included black women.
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there are a lot of black women around that prefer to date black men, but they are fewer in numbers than eligible white men. i have also however met women of colour who are open to dating white men that they are attracted to and whome have a good personality.
but the problem lies more so with the white man because they should be more open to thinking seriously about a relationship with a black woman.
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anon,
Are you from England or the U.S.?”
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if black men were really open to date everyone they would be fair with everybody this included black women.
In the US 91.4% of married Black men are married to Black women.
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I am from england & although more white men here marry black or mixed race women than in the u.s, there are some that still seem to hold prejudices and in my experience other european nationalities seem more attracted to women of colour ie. german or french men.
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Anons for comments#451 and #457,
Thanks for confirming the FACT that MORE EUROPEAN WM are open to SERIOUS RELATIONSHIPS and MARRIAGE to BW than MOST AMERICAN WM. Hopefully, American WM who “claim to be attracted to BW” will learn from/follow this positive example from EUROPEAN WM’s IRR’s with BW.
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Or you could also move to Europe if you are that hard up for a White man.
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To commenter above:
The topic is “Why so few white men marry black women”.
NO ONE is asking for your IRRELEVANT, OFF TOPIC advice.
If you’re not “TOO HARD UP”, maybe you could stick to the topic at hand.
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The topic is “Why so few white men marry black women”.
Then perhaps you should also stick to the topic at hand instead of lecturing, begging, berating, etc American White men.
I think abagond was asking it as a open-ended question, not a demand of American White men.
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To commenter above,
I am ON TOPIC and my comments are directly related to it -“Why so few white men marry black women”.
Reread what abagond says at the start of this post,
“White men with black women are not as common IN AMERICA as you might expect. Even though an eighth of AMERICAN women are black, fewer than one married white man in 400 has a black wife! That cannot be an accident. Compare that to how many have Asian wives: about one in 100 – even though there are way fewer Asian women.”
“Given the numbers of white, black and Asian women there are in America and looking at who white men marry, you can work out how much they like different kinds of women as wives:
132: white women
100: American women in general
23: Asian women
2: black women
If the TRUTH HURTS WHY DON’T YOU HELP CHANGE IT instead of “berating,lecturing” and patronizing those who are TELLING THE TRUTH (as you’ve done repeatedly throughout this post).
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My goodness lol wow, I haven’t been to this site in a while and I see these comments…amazing. Some hilarious stuff (mostly the outrageously obvious bitterness) some of it was just depressing for a few.
Sexism + colorism are two of the big boys that black women have to deal with e-v-e-r-y-s-i-n-g-l-e day. I’m hearing some really screwy ideals of what a female should “act” like in order to be considered a woman in the first place and then a whole mess of attributes she must have to be someone of value(as valuable as a woman can be by the sounds of some of these guys). Asian men aren’t masculine and they’re women are ultra feminine? Black men are mega manly and so are black women? LOL, I’m soooo tired of that bullshit hunter gatherer- pale/quiet/small = feminine and tall/dark/upfront = masculine, instead of being an individual and being responsible for how you treat people, you’re anthropologists when it suits you. I’ve come to realize this a long time ago, there is no logic that will stop a racist from being a racist, what they believe serves as convenient stepping stones for their self empowerment and that’s that and if you’re not with them you’re clearly against them. You’re pretty much damned either way so just do your thing boo boo.
Frankly, the whole marriage thing is just another construct, one I believe to be overrated and not for everybody. Seen people stress over not finding somebody (anybody! please!) when they hit a certain age, people who got pressured into it (it’s the right thing to do or you’re living in sin!), I could go on but, I’m saying all this to explain why I think of those stats are bull. There are too many happy fulfilled single/unmarried people, and there are too many defeated, unsatisfied married ones. A lot of people will probably think I’m some man hating chick, not so, it’s just that I don’t value men’s “assessment” of who they think I am. If a rock solid best buddy who can turn me on comes along then gravy, if not, oh well, I’m not going to choke on my biscuit.
Funny as how I’m sitting here watching The Time Machine starring Guy Pearce and Samantha Mumba.
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If the TRUTH HURTS WHY DON’T YOU HELP CHANGE IT instead of “berating,lecturing” and patronizing those who are TELLING THE TRUTH (as you’ve done repeatedly throughout this post).
That’s my point. This post wasn’t about changing it, it was about discussing it.
I won’t help change it because I have no vested interest in who White American Men marry or don’t marry as long as no-one’s freedom is impeded.
They are FREE to MARRY WHATEVER KIND OF WOMAN THEY PLEASE for WHATEVER REASON they want.
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Since my original question was deflected for other topics, I’m wondering why the main reason is because white men are racist. Last I checked marriage requires TWO people. But I see some of you WANT to think white men are racists.
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And if you constantly accuse white men of being racist then they will definetely want to stay away from you. Or else it will just appear like that cause that’s what you want to see.
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this topic is a very relevant 1 and 1 of contention… i myself am of mixed race but i identify more or i should say i am of african ethnicity having grown up with my african family…
i totally understand the issues raised here regarding white men black women and the truth is what it is… but i think the majority of white men will not b attracted to marry black women altho it happens it is not prevalent… some may ask y is this important but the thing is we must always remember that we are only human and trying to understand the human condition and thought process will be our mission in life forever.. we may never uncover the mysteries but as long as we can ask a question we will seek an answer.
not all white men just like not all ppl of other races are racist. I really feel that white men are just like other men… shown false images of beauty and manipulated and brainwashed to some extent by the media which states that to be beautiful we must look a certain way… (who owns the media rite???) since time immemorable black ppl have struggled with the notion that to be of a lighter complexion and to have good hair was the way to be beautiful… suffer that to be so, we still possess the idea that black women who are beautiful look well white… and this is the case we are faced with daily… i know i know ur saying but she’s mixed thats not her prob well i am darker than most mixed ppl i kno…
familiarity breeds love i think so being around a lovely black woman could spark some interest in an open minded WM so he asks her out they fall in love badda bing badda boom… a lot of WM are never around BW and vice versa so they never get a chance to see the beautiful side of sistas… Hey or if they are they could well be intimidated by our looks… 🙂
its an old saying and rather cliche but here goes, love is blind and if we would allow ourselves the opportunity to be colour blind, race blind, and let love lead the way then i think we can make this issue a thing of the past, but then again is this really possible with ppl like steve sailer around… uuummmmmmmmmmmm i dont think so…
God bless! God is the Boss!
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Noting the FACT that European WM marry BW at higher rates than American WM IS a relevant, positive, and constructive part of this discussion. It also highlights a possible SOLUTION to the problem of why so few WM marry BW in America.
Obviously, NO ONE on this post has said that ALL WM are racist towards BW even though there have been several blatantly, racist comments made about BW by certain WM on this post.
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To Laromana:
You said:
“Given the numbers of white, black and Asian women there are in America and looking at who white men marry, you can work out how much they like different kinds of women as wives:
132: white women
100: American women in general
23: Asian women
2: black women
If the TRUTH HURTS WHY DON’T YOU HELP CHANGE IT instead of “berating,lecturing” and patronizing those who are TELLING THE TRUTH (as you’ve done repeatedly throughout this post).”
Well “the truth” as it were is a misunderstanding and application of statistics (I’ve taken a course or two in statistics) here was my previous reply to Abagond on the issue:
Thu 19 Mar 2009 at 09:47:29
To Abagond:
In regards to:
“That last one is dead wrong. Look at the percentage of married Americans in 2006 who were married outside their race:
* 19.5 Asian women
* 8.4 black men
* 7.2 Asian men
* 3.6 black women
* 2.2 white men
* 1.9 white women
“It is white people who stick most to their own kind, not black women – or even Asian men.”
Hmmm.. well that would be a true statement if whites had an equal or lesser percentage of the population than the other groups but since they are a majority, at five times greater in number than the next largest group, on a random basis they would partner up with other whites much more than other groups. The racial/ethnic breakdown for people in the US who are of legal age to marry is roughly 70% white, 12% Black, 12% Latino, 4% Asian, and 1% Multiracial, 1% Native American (these figures don’t exactly represent the current demographics of the US because minorities below the age of 18 (for my calculations.. the legal age to marry..)are a higher percentage of the populace..)
If marriage always occurred in an individuals adult life and was completely random we would expect the white interracial rate to be 30%, the Black rate to be 88%, the Latino rate to be 88%, the Asian rate to be 96%. On that basis let’s look at the interracial marriage rate of Black men, the second highest of all the groups you listed (8.4%) compared to their expected out marriage rate (88%), we see that Black men marry at 9.5% of their expected (random) interracial marriage rate and white men (2.2%) compared to their expected out marriage rate (30%) are at 7.3% of their expected interracial marriage rate and Black women (3.6% actual) versus random rate of (88%) are at 4% of their expected rate of interracial marriage, Asian men at 7.2% interracial marriage versus a potential rate of 96% are at 7.5% of their expected rate of interracial marriage whereas Asian women are at (19.5/96) 20.3% of their expected out marriage rate and white women (1.9/30) are at 6.3% of their expected out marriage.
By the way intraracial marriages among Asians and Latinos are increasing not decreasing with the increased immigration of the last few decades (more choices for partners.. more ethnic enclaves..) whereas interracial marriages between whites and other groups are increasing.”
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Uncle Milton,
That was another point I was going to make, how the populations are different, and can’t be considered the actual statistics.
Also, the difference between black women (3.6%) vs. white men (2.2%) is only 1.4%, a pretty small difference if you ask me, considering the population sizes.
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a bit off topic, but i think white people are often misunderstood today. as a white male, i often feel like that. because of their dishonorable past they get criticised a lot, so lots of white people are self-conscious about what other races think of them, especially blacks.
this is why blacks sometimes think whites ignore or avoid them in public. its also why white men are intimidated by black women, more than asians or hispanics.
also, a lot of white men think they can’t live up to black men. in the media, blacks are portrayed as “cool” and they represent high in sports, music, acting and celebrity-types. white men feel more like they can compete with asian or hispanic men. the situation is not the same in canada or europe.
as for the haters on here, they are the WEAKEST form of insecure whites. they are just sad, lonely guys with small dicks.
that is all.
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rollerderby,
I can understand what you’re saying about why some WM may be more intimidated by BW than by HW or AW.
I (and other BW who are open to IRR’s with WM) need WM who feel the way you do to understand that BW are individuals who are just as approachable and easy to get to know as other NON-WW. Also, you DON’T need to “live up to BM and stereotypes about them” in order to get to know BW. BW are independent human beings from BM and establishing relationships with us has NOTHING to do with how BM are viewed.
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like “whites” who did not murder the “jews?” I think you mean nazis. ahem, small difference. most of the jews were “white.” there are jews in every race, and almost every corner of the world. I’m jewish and white. unless you know what your saying, keep quiet, because it makes you look like a fool.
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Not all slavery is created equal.
Here’s a link that explains this better than I can: http://www.womanist-musings.com/2009/05/slavery-101-clearing-up-some.html
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kara – I understand that
in jewish law there is a very complex system of laws about how a slave was treated. Some of which were the first big steps towards womens rights…i.e. if you must sell your daughter into slavery – she must be treated a specific way or the owner must release her back to you etc…
It was the first time women were viewed as more than animals to be sold at a fathers whim…they had rights…
BUT – you are missing my point – i cant believe the prior to EU influence they didnt take and hold slaves. They did. The african culture – like most tribal cultures, would take women as prizes, kill off the males in a fight for resources and territory. The Vikings did it, the Picts, the American Indians and the african tribes…
The black culture was not a group of peaceful co existing tribes that never committeed attrocities open each other.. they werent the first hippie communes living peacefully…they were waring with each other – the white
So to the picts and the celts and the anglo saxon tribes were vicious and brutal to each other…you go far enough back in anyones history and you find a less civilized version of humanity….a spirt that I freely admit is here today- just cleaned up. We all pretend its not there…but look at anyone close enough and you see a selfish, self centered savage…regardless of race.
Now white society rose to power in a big way…and continuted their savage ways on a larger scale. But – they were the same savagery as before – just global…white society was no different – just in charge…evil, sinful, disgusting…but no different…just inpower…
I simply belive to blame anyone group when if we open our eyes we see starteling similarties of evil horrors regardless of race…
If races were reversed I believe the same thing would have happened…because humans are evil and sinful.
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Davida,
I can dig that. However, black Africans did not benefit as much from slavery in comparison to white Europeans. It’s not like they sold their own and were let off scot-free for being good Negroes or, worst, good business partners. The same European countries who participated in slavery also participated in Africa’s colonization because of patriarchal viewpoints of missionaries who wanted to save the savage, of explorers who wanted to claim land that wasn’t theirs, and of colonialists who wanted to find and take natural resources like oil, gold, and such.
So, while there are startling similarities between the evils committed by any race, we can all agree that one race won that battle and it continues to affect people. It’s all sunshine and unicorns until I am profiled in Saks Firth Avenue due to some damn stereotype based on hundreds of years of oppression and being considered less than.
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True – the in power group certainly continues to piss on the rest…
And I benefit because I was born into white priviledge…
Which is why I delight in ripping sales associates who profile BW in stores…”excuse me – is there a reason you asked that lovely BW if she needs help 6 times and ignored me? Is there a reason you follow her around the shop? Is it because you think because of her race she is going to steal something. Could you be any more racist? You just lost my business” said very loudly…and then I leave…
Now I know most strong BW dont need me to do this…but I find (unfortunately) when I say it it shames them…they just write it off as a BW pulling the race card otherwise. I know my words should not count more than anyone elses…but we should use the tools we are given.
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Who cares if white men wont marry/date black women most sistas i know aren’t the least bit attracted to white dudes. I think white men are just fasinated by our voluptous “attributes” that they cant get from their counterparts and the thought that most of them do fantisize about us even though they’ll never admit it. I have an abundant amount of love and respect for my beautiful ebony caramel chocolate people. And i want to keep my race alive by producing ALL black children lots of them.
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orchid, speak for yourself.
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Nubian
Don’t make too many. The earth is battling as it. Quality rather than quantity!
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black people having pride for their race is a result of trying to make up for all the negativity they attribute with being black.
there is a reason, people think when white people have pride its racist.
for starters, they usually spout off something racist about other races….and then they dont understand that they are the majority.
blacks have had to and still have to, deal with hateful remarks, not alot of positive images in the media.
so blacks arent being racist for having pride….they are doing it to make up for the fact that blacks dont get much positive attention.
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imagine if hitler’s wife gave birth to a black baby ha ha picture the look on his face. he would literally shit his pants
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“Hitler Juice”
No one cares what Hitler would have thought
Hitler was BUTT UGLY in the first place.
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It is strange that “white people” walk around acting like they are better then everybody else.
I don’t see a halo above their heads and their feet touch the ground when they walk.
So where do they get their superiority complex from?
In my opinion, you have to have more then just straight hair texture and pale skin if you are going to convince me that you are some type of super-species.
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White men are child molesters, and they also abuse animals.
I wouldn’t touch one with a ten foot pole.
http://whitewatch.wordpress.com/2009/06/07/dutch-pedophile-molests-child-live-and-audience-laughs/
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Agabond, you bring up very good points and you speak the truth on this topic.
You can also look at many of the websites white people created to see how much they hate black people.
The whites have Chimpout.com,
Niggermania.com, Stormfront.com, KKK.com,
etc. etc…
They spend alot of time comparing black people to gorillas, chimpanzees, apes,
and calling us monkeys…
And they expect black people to look up to them and respect them! LOL
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you know reyna, some of the websites you listed make me think of something.
they spend lots of time saying blacks are lazy and do nothing.
but thousands upon thousands of white people spend their entire day online saying how much they hate black people.
they go to anything thats about black people, and start spewing their venomous hatred…even at abagond’s blog!
they are just like conservatives who spend the whole day saying liberals have no jobs…but then they always seem to be online complaining about something the liberals supposedly did or didnt do…
black people live in a catch 22 life…
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You can also look at many of the websites white people created to see how much they hate black people.
Yes white people hate black people so much that Obama carried the majority of the white vote in states like Vermont, Massachusetts, Rhode Island, Washington, Oregon, etc..
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Only 44% of whites voted for Obama overall. In some states, like Uncle Milton pointed out, it was over 50%. But in others it was as low as 10%.
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Hi, I am a black female at the age of 21 and I date a white male at the age of 23 going on 24 this year. Since a little girl I have always like white males but I liked black males too. I grew up never understanding racism and i still do not. Even though we are all diff. colors how diff. does it make us. I will never hate a white person who is racist and tell me to my face how I am nothing. I love my partner because he can be himself no matter what. He has a lot of masculinity but that is not why I like him. When I first met him we would talk about anything. Most of it was never about race just us. I do not care about the past because we cannot change it. Whites today should not have to apologize for it because they did not do that to our ancestors. Their ancestors did. Also Africans do it to there own also, but I know it does not make it right for another race to do so. Everything happens for a reason and i truly believe that. How can a white person or any one else from any other race tell me that they hate me? My question would be for what reason.
I have not lived long but I know that I have a heart. You tell me you hate me I tell you I love you and that you are in my prayers. My boyfriend got to know me and he liked what he found. If everyone can do that life would be better for all of us. We all know that stereotypes are true for most or some but not all. My second great-grandfather was a white man, blond hair and blue eyes. He killed my second great-grandmother, but I still chose to date a white man. Black women do not date white men because of the same reason vice versa. That is because of how the were raised. Its just too complicated sometimes. Why would a black woman subject herself to racism and hatred just because of statistics. Why would a white man date a black woman just because a black man will not. People have their own preference from experience and parental advisory. Most of it is not based off lies. Some whites just do not want to mixed with such a stubborn race. That goes for blacks also. Why date a race who thinks less of you because of your skin color. Sometimes whites and blacks are so much alike they just cannot get along. Have you ever seen two people who are so much alike that sooner or later they clash. Most blacks have learned from whites and most of their lifestyles are based off whites livelihoods, morals, wants,and desires. I have met several white men who were interested in me and did not hesitate to make it known. I am from the south but now I live in the state of Washington. Seems to me that some people are just against the issue of being told what others think they should do for black women. Some black women just do not want a white man and a white just do not want a black woman. Okay I get it so maybe the rest of us should just let life go on and stop making site that degrades black women. AT time I was a little offended even though a lot of men from many diff. races thinks that I am an acceptable black woman to look and and date. I do not have a horrible attitude, I am not loud, intimidating by any means. I just wanted a man to love me and appreciate me for who I am inside and that so happen to be a white man, but I know plenty good black men.
In today’s society we are mostly worried about careers and cheating in interracial relationships rather racism. Yes at a point of time it will be address but only because of an outside source. It like force being acted on from an outside force. It has to be stopped somehow. All I am saying is leave the issue alone. White men do date black women and yes there is a rise so why exactly are we complaining about white men are not dating black women when it is actually happening. Even in younger cultures. I dated my first white boyfriend in middle school. I have even seen little kids having their first girlfriends and boyfriends with other races do to lighter skin color. Well if you all would like to ask me questions and I am fairly reasonable with my answers feel free. Just do not be rude and outrageous but do ask. Do not hold back. I am here to learn and try to figure out what we really want to know. Not history or facts but what we do not know about each other because we are either too afraid or stubborn to ask.
Kira
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One more thing about the importance of this in the first place. My boyfriend and I talk about marriage as normally as a white/black couple would when they feel it is necessary.
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Sorry for this but yes some blacks are just as extreme with racism just like some whites. I would also like to say that the only reason people may see most black women as ghetto is because that’s all they try to see. Sometimes I am quite surprised to bump into a female that is. It is annoying to me but sometimes its rare for me. I cannot speak for up north but how can you find that ghetto black female unless you are in the ghetto. Realistically there are plenty black females that are not ghetto who has thought about dating a white man. Like I said before, white men and black women kind of think alike. They know that they have interest but do to the past they sometimes do not know how to approach each other. Honestly when I first met my boyfriend we were taking a PT test and I touched him to get his attention. In the moments of me doing so I was hoping that he did not hate or dislike black girls. I was kind of holding my breath on that one. When he responded in a calm, respective voice I was relieved. I was cautious of a white man. Afterward I felt pretty stupid for even assuming that he would hate me just because I was helping him. I have had experiences where a white guy did not like me just because I was black but that was okay. Most of my friends have been white throughout my entire lifetime and there is no mistaking that I am black.
I agree with sanantoniobeauty. My boyfriend loves to take me to dinner. No I did not put myself out there, but yes deep down I yearned for a white man. Don’t know why but I did and I still yearn for my boyfriend.
There have been times where I tried to cross a street and whites would just pass right by and not stop and being in the military it is common to stop. I ignore it most the time but there has been a time where only one car stopped and the other just did not want to, even though we have the right of way at any crosswalk. I have gotten unnecessary stares that sometimes hit me pretty bad. It is a little painful to know that some people would treat a young person this way. My first encounter with a racist person seemed unreal. I just kept on with my life, but with every encounter they are unforgettable.
Back to the subject at hand. I am close to the color of caramel just with a tan. The only black features I really have are my lips and breast. My mother is Indian, white, and black and my father is European and something else. To me I still look black but a lot of white men are willing to date or have sex with me. I do not pursue their wants and desires but it is not hard to see or even get a white man to tell me so. I have had the looks from other black males but who cares. You just kind of get use to it. Color does not matter, love and happiness does when it comes to my relationship. Not only that, I date one of the whitest men in America. He is from the south and has a country accent out this world. He is a body builder and I would have never guessed that he would like black women. He was not shy and he approached me just like any other guy would and that is with the indication that he likes what he see. Yes I work out and I have a body that is attractive and that plays a huge factor in a white man liking me. Even coming to loving me. Especially the man I am dating.
Well it would seem that I have written enough. Please feel free to respond, criticize, and ask questions.
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Sakira:
I hope not to sound too judgmental or critical, but you sound like your boyfriend’s the prize here instead of you. Your statement “To me I still look black but a lot of white men are willing to date or have sex with me.” does not sound right. This statement is filled (in my opinion) with you being so “grateful” and “surprised” that a white man finds you attractive or sexual. My dear, white men have always found us sexy, even the so-called white men who label us fat, undesirable, ghetto, weave wearers, etc. It is more acceptable to publically criticize and offend us than to tell the truth in fear of being ostracized by his friends, colleagues especially white women, even in 2009. The problem is that they will hardly ever “wife” us or for some not be seen in public with us, let alone have children with us. Now, this is not all white men. I am sure there are some that fall in love, marry and honor a black woman, but unfortunately, this is not the majority.
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hmmmmmmm interesting topic. for me its not about race its about up bringing and attitude.if you love and respect people i dont think so if you can put people in groups.usually it black or white.why is it so?
anyway look at the inward and not the outward appearance
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I feel like I kind of agree with what Isha #324 and Black&German #325 said. I observed that most of the white men that approached me were from Sweden, Denmark, France…but rarely were American. Interesting.
@Black&German, you are correct about our obsession with race. This French guy I dated said that he saw me as just as an “American” although he’s aware of my skin color, he saw me as just that and asked why is that the U.S. puts people’s ethnicity before American–i.e. Chinese-American, etc–why not just be seen as an American? Racism exists everywhere, but I think that a country’s history also plays a part. I dated this French guy for awhile and he told me that strangely the French have an admiration for Black American culture and the people…but yet they’re very discriminatory towards N. Africans and Africans–which I think is wrong. No one should be discriminated against b/c of their religion or color.
Also, maybe it’s like a nagging feeling at the back of my head but I absolutely get annoyed when I hear “It’s because black women are loud, obnoxious, etc,bitchy.” If you really think about it, “loud and obnoxious” can apply to a woman of any race because I’ve met them. It’s really unfair to say “all”. I had this black woman tell me that she was doing her part to save the “race” by marrying a black men when she learned my boyfriend was white. This made me feel very uncomfortable because in short, I felt that she was calling me a “sellout”. In the end, I think it balls down to how open-minded a person is.
Race aside, it seems like some(please note, that I said SOME and not all) men are also bothered by a woman’s intelligence. For some reason, some men feel threatened when they learn I have a Master’s and have done some traveling outside of the US, etc. I’ve experienced this from both black and white men. Or it’s probably just the men I’m meeting.
@Candace, I don’t know if I would completely agree that black women are jealous that the other are taking their men. But I do know that there are some that would fit into that category. I could care less if someone wants to date a person of a different ethnic background. It’s none of my business. Race aside, I think it’s in a woman’s instinct to feel that there aren’t too many potential partners and they feel the need to compete. I’ve experienced a “brush off” from black, white, Asian, Hispanic women whenever I enter a place where there’s men. I remember when I went to a filmmaker’s panel, it seemed like the women decided immediately that they weren’t going to make the effort to be nice to me although I was cordial to them. The men in the room were friendlier and I guess they saw me as a threat, although I had no interest in dating any of the men. It’s probably in our blood to compete. But I guess when you throw race into the mix, many feel the need to preserve their own and feel “the other” taking that away from them. I necessarily don’t agree with that logic, but that’s how some people think.
Call me naive, but when I like someone, I don’t allow their skin color to stop me from dating them. Everyone is entitled to their preference.
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I found this to be such an interesting and layered topic. I am not a black woman, but I have noticed through the past few years that while many people like to think and say that the media and our society in general has become more equalized and blah, blah, you still see nothing but mostly white women as idealized beauty all over the media and everywhere else you look. Even if not all of the idealized women are white, the mainstream standard to even qualify as beauty is absolutely a euro-centric one! BLONDE HAIR BLUE EYES! It almost seems as though the old notion of racism has morphed into some sort of class system based on the shade and tone of ones skin; the lighter you are, the better off you are, it has really become a very ugly and indignant truth in our society. Absolutely Abagond is right on the money about the blindness of white America to this situation or any race related situation because it does not stare them in the face everyday, and most of the ones who are sensitive to it from my experience come from a middle class environment and maybe had a chance or two to see environments poorer than middle or upper middle class. At the same time I do also believe that there is a lot of the sticking to their own mentality going on, and a little bit of hanging onto negative feelings from the old type of racism as well. I am no fool and I do know that racism is alive and well here in america, under a presumed identity but alive nonetheless! My hope/vision of race relations in America, is that everyone will just look at people for people, observe actions and behaviors of one another instead of only observing color. I really wish that we would all just hurry up and mix with each other so that we can stop feeling and thinking so much about racism and prejudice against race, we need not lose our heritage, but acknowledge and recognize that we all share an American culture, though each version of that culture may be a little different, its all ours to share. In a generation or so our stories won’t be so different from each other, all our backgrounds will be simply MIXED!
I know my vision of race relations is naive TODAY, but I have the utmost confidence in us a people that my vision will just be the ordinary one day. I myself am very proud of my heritage, but that does not mean that I am as narrowed minded to only stick to what I already know. I hope that the kids I have one day are mixed and I want them to know their heritage from both sides. It all seems funny to me when people try to stick to their own as they call it, because physiologically speaking it is actually better to seek outside your race as to strengthen immune systems for your children. The way I see it everyone can stick with their own regardless of skin color , cause we are all the same human race.
-Marcella
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I am a black woman who was married to a white (jewish) man. Some Jews are racist, but they seem to be more open towards interracial relationships than other whites are. I wonder why?
I belong to a club composed of well-educated, professional black women and it seems that very few of them are interested in even dating a white man. Black women tend to be very loyal to their men.
I agree with the posters here who said that the image of beauty in this country is still the blonde, blue-eyed white women. The farther you are from this image, the more unattractive you are considered. If you don’t believe me, look at Beyonce, Halle Berry, Rhianna, etc. In fact, the last time this country had a prominent, really dark-skinned female actress was in the seventies, with Cicely Tyson. Sad but true. That’s why I love the Sudanese model Alek Wek — she’s very dark and very beautiful!
Lastly,I don’t care who people marry, but it seems that some black men AND black women date/pursue whites for the wrong reasons. My sister (who also married a white man) never dated any black people and once told me she wouldn’t let a black man touch her. She ended up marrying a demented white man who cheats on her and treats her like dirt. Pathetic.
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513. Phillymiss
It’s a pity most black men don’t return the loyalty.
Your comment about Jewish men being more open to interracial marriages then other races is a lot of hogwash. It all depends on your upbringing and surroundings.
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correction other whites.
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The author of this article is “full of it”.
Lack of Opportunity: Black women and white men work together on a daily basis in both the private and public sectors.
Education: Black women have equal and more education than most white men.
Attractiveness: White men who do date and marry white men are not commonly found with mulattos and light skin black women rather brown skin ones. In fact, after I cut my hair and went natural, white men overwhelmingly showed an interest unlike black men.
Finally, I am currently dating a white professional male who is a physician.
Stop posting stereotypes and lies.
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It seems I did not express myself well enough. I see those mainly as excuses, that the true reason is racism.
Attractiveness: I agree that the white men who do date black women seem to go for ones who are medium brown with natural hair and not the light-skinned ones like you would expect. I even wrote a post about it:
On the other hand, many white men say they feel no attraction for black women. I doubt they are lying, most of them. But comparing them to white men in Europe or even Brazil, it seems their racist upbringing has something to do with that.
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As a white guy my experience is that black women have an attitude problem. I’ve not met a black women who isn’t domineering.
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the only guys who find black women to be “domineering” are either abusive guys who want submissive girls they can control OR just weak guys who avoid the black girls, because of their egos.
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The whole “black women have bad attitudes” thing has been overused (I know it has its roots in the self serving idea that black isn’t normal and women are supposed to be men’s quiet sidekicks).
I’ve come to realize that what certain people call an atitude is just someone not taking their shit or going along with their plans so they demonize the person and equally close minded people will believe it and run with it (women seem to be especially prone to this kind of lableling, especially black women). I’ve seen this so much its actually disgusting,
I think its used to be a judgemental and self important prick without looking like one, it has become quite a fashionable ego booster for many. Some know its a bunch of BS and reject it, some buy into it because it makes them seem less effed up.
At the end of the day, this label we know as “race” has played a major role in the development and maintainence of America, a lot of people just can’t stand hearing it but its at the core of this country period. The devaluing and and degradation of black women was NEVER undone, hell it’s still happening, we get a little tokenism, sure, but even that has its cut off point. And some people magically expect it not to be a social issue.
I could care less if white men want/don’t want black women, they’re just people with their own hang ups and concerns, however this topic is interesting as it speaks volumes about other things.
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Gerald Bollinger Says:
Sat 15 Aug 2009 at 11:20:24
As a white guy my experience is that black women have an attitude problem. I’ve not met a black women who isn’t domineering.
It is these kinds of IDIOTIC, IRRATIONAL, RACIST, HATEFUL, ANTI-BW LIES, MYTHS, and STEREOTYPES that need to be DESTROYED in American culture and WHEREVER they exist.
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I personally think that black women should, steal back black men, who are in relationships with white women. If white women stuck to their own kind, instead of trying to take up with others races potential parners, then this Black women/White man discussion would not even exist.
I think that white women, want to cause further divisions in the black race, it has nothing to with love. I mean if black men are not available, then who are we as black women supposed to date and marry?
I will also point out that White men do NOT like Black women, they JUST don’t find us appealing enough and that is the truth and I don’t know why people just don’t admit this, because it is the plain TRUTH. If white men really liked black women, then the statistics would speak for themselves and this topic would be non existant.
It is not fair! that white women are taking black men and this is where the real problem lies, not with white men as they prefer their own kind, I am prepared to fight back, if I see a black guy that like who is going out with a white women, I will try to steal him and I suggest other black women do the same.
I am not a racist person, but it always seems that white people always want to take things away from others, to benefit themselves and that is their history, taking away from others.
I mean, just look at a history book, nothing is really theirs it is all stolen or built on the back of BLOOD MONEY and that is WHY there are so many problems in society today, problems that will never be sorted out, because they are to busy taking SOMETHING ELSE which is surprise surprise is not theirs!!
Instead of Black men/Black women getting involved in these silly mixed raced relationships, which mainly go nowhere and are based on false values such as money or sex, start dating and loving one another!!!!
I don’t know why social events for Black men/Black women can’t be arranged to help black people to socialise better. Why can’t someone start up an arranged marriage system (both parties comply), to help black relationships.
I sorry to have to say this but I feel that white people should stop taking from us, they have the whole world and yet they are still taking from us. BUTT OUT!!! and then this problem of dyfunctional black relationships will start to resolve itself.
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Since BW are INDEPENDENT, INDIVIDUAL, HUMAN BEINGS and DON’T BELONG to ANYONE, they can love, date, and marry ANY QUALITY man of ANY RACE. There is NOTHING WRONG with this.
The MAIN reason MOST men of ALL RACES claim to “NOT LIKE/BE ATTRACTED” to BW (especially in America) is because of the HISTORICALLY ANTI-BW RACIST/HATE that has been/continues to be promoted in American culture/American media.
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I argee that some black women are independant, success human beings, but I don’t see why black men are NOT attracted to their own race regardless of the historically anti-bw racist hate, that is promoted by both American and European powers. I mean am a black female, have been subjected to the same kind racist indoctrination and I would date and marry a black man, if he were suitable and we had lots in common. So I don’t think that argument is true.
I can understand white men being influenced, but I just cannot understand why black men would be so influenced as well. I feel that black women should fight back and take back their men. Most races (white,hispanic,asian) men like their own WOMEN, so why are black men so different.
This situation between black men/black women is getting beyond ridculous and is totally embarrassing. black men and black women should be going out together.
Black women should just face facts, that white men do not like us and never will, if white men really respected us and liked us for girlfriends or wives, don’t you think this would be shown in statistics, but like I have said before that statistics speak for themselves and it shows that white males DON’T LIKE black women and never will.
Is it not the white male that has been systematically promoting anti bw hate/racism, so why should black women associate with them?
Also can anyone name me at least twenty
(not one or two) high profile rich white men who have black girlfriends or wives.
Black women and their families need to win their men back and tell white women to piss off and marry their own men, I also feel that black women need to to stop kidding themselves and selling themselves short when it comes to relationships.
I mean yes, black women can date outside their race if they so wish, but are they truely valued or wanted and the answer 99% of the time is NO.
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In American society black men are held up as being more desirable than black women. So they are wanted more by white people as mates than black women.
Dating and marrying white men will make up for part of that loss, but it will not make up for all or even most of it.
Black women suffer from bad marketing due to racism. Most white women are not rushing out to marry black men, yet white people’s hang-ups about race and sex does favour black men while disfavouring black women.
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“In American society black men are held up as being more desirable than black women. So they are wanted more by white people as mates than black women.” (abagond)
This is not just exclusive to the USA, it happens in the Europe as well.
Black women should just IGNORE white men and try to make a success with the black men available.
Also if black women suffer from bad marketing the world over, don’t you think we should take steps to change it, not because we want to attract white men, but to help ourselves and our families, this is what we should be doing, not chasing after these white people, who are partly responsible for this situation in the first place and who certainly HATE us.
Most white women ARE taking the few black men available, this is bad, because then who are we as black women supposed to date and marry, as I have said before.
So the situation stands as this, we have white men who have brought down bad stereotypes of black women and continue to do so because they own the media and then we have white women who continue to take the best black men available, despite them having plenty of white men available to them.
I feel that both black women and black men should join together fight this, if we don’t then goodbye black people and culture for good and that is what white people want.
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its like this many black men i know date & marry white women because they can’t find a black women who’s passive & sumissive toward their partners , I’m Mixed Black, White & Native American & i hang out with only white girls & I’ve learned that theres a huge difference in how they treat black men Vs how black women treat them , Not saying black women aren’t good , but I use to act ghetto & loud & argue with my black mate like most black women , then I started realizing hell I’m single always , so I started to Hanging out again with Only White girl’s & started watching what they do to get black men I Notice White girls are more approachable , Aggressive in what she wants , & Get him & Summits to him on top she tells him how much she loves him , how much he means ect ect Basically making him feel like A King were A Black woman yeah she may but its not in the same way she argues more then embraces him . & just by setting & observing how white women are I started doing the same thing they’re doing & I actually have token 3 white chicks black men away because black men see it as different & New that A Ethnic chick can do what A White chick do & even better .
its like this many black women leave that door open to many white women by been hard headed & not wanting to summit a little , plus white women are hearing & seen what Us Black women are doing to our men & is using it to get black men because they see us been ghetto , not wanting to do anything & basically putting him “Our own Black men ” Down , they’re watching what we’re doing & Many Black women get mad at me for saying this but How do you think White women know how we treat our own men The see it & hear it Not by just Our men telling them but From what they see in our Community they’re using Our Weakness as their Gold mind of taking our men & black women don’t seem to think or realize this they just think A Girl like me Is Ignorent Or Racist , But if you ever hangout with White girls & see how they do Black men You would see exactly what I mean.
& Plus if Black wmen think If they start doing what White women are doing to Win back Black men You would be A Huge Threat to many White girls , I Know I am They become scared when i walk in the room .
its like this if you can’t beat them , join them & beat them in their own game .
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NO RACE of HUMAN BEINGS is OBLIGATED to marry their SAME RACE members because RACE doesn’t make us each other’s PROPERTY.
SELF HATING, DBR, ANTI-BW RACIST/HATER BM need to deal with their issues THEMSELVES. BW aren’t RESPONSIBLE for THEIR ISSUES and we certainly DON’T NEED TO WASTE OUR TIME WAITING for THESE ANTI-BW BM to RESOLVE THEIR PROBLEMS.
BW, like women of ANY RACE are FREE to LOVE, DATE, MARRY WHOEVER they want, REGARDLESS OF RACE.
There are men OF EVERY RACE who DO WANT to LOVE, DATE, and MARRY BW, despite the MANY ANTI-BW LIES, MYTHS, and STEREOTYPES being promoted everywhere.
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I’m seeing this “submit” word pop scarily often. It’s either I’m misunderstanding or some folks do not know the definition of the word. Submit = to surrender or yield to the will of a another person or superior force. You can show a man you love him without being a doormat….Personally I think any individual who needs another (be it friend/lover/whatever) to act weak so they can feel strong is an insecure nothing. If you treat someone the way you want to be treated and that’s not enough, then you need to tell em’ not to let the door smack em’ on the arse on the way out.
@ Kanzas
I can’t agree with you there. Many black men, like most other men hold on to the archaic belief that women should cater to them. Black men, like most other men are not immune to being programmed to like what popular culture shoves down their throat and a big part of that was that “white is best” and more importantly in this case, “black is bad bad bad”, you can call it “White media” if you want to but the fact remains that it reaches the world over and black people have gotten some pretty bad press. Yet its somehow expected that black women (who faced the same brutal crap that black men faced and had no one to pave her way) to just curtail, no, not even on a lover’s level. Grin and bare it just to keep him? Sorry, not that hard up for a mate. Not going to lie and say there aren’t black women with bad attitudes (tons of white ones too but we never hear about them), who knows what kind of life experiences they have, but I think a lot of people make it seem like its every other black woman because they need someone to be stomped into the mud to keep their shoes clean.
Knowing you’re at the bottom of the social barrel influences the way you see yourself and the way you deal with others, whether its positive or negative (aware or unaware). Never compare white women’s experience with black women’s, society at large views us differently, men view us differently, white men view us differently, black men view us differently, the guy interviewing you for a job views us differently, there’s a reason why we approach some aspects of personal relationships differently. So this whole “be more like white women” idea is a crock of sh+t lol.
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Only 6% of black men marry white women & 2% of black women marry white men.’ Taking into consideration that the black male is “more desirable” neither seem to be that interested in whites. I am a black female & even though I find some non-black men attractive I never considered dating one and the reality is a lot of women I know of my ethnicity feel the same way. I am of a darker skin tone & I’ve had white men tell me I was attractive but, to be honest most of those were when I was in modeling.
Another topic that is important that I want to discuss is even though it hurts me to admit black men are more likely to be in prison. 17% of black men have had prison experience compared to 7.7% of Hispanic and 2.6% of White. Let’s not forget to factor in that a lot of young black mean die at an early age due to violence, AIDS etc. We must not forget the fact that many of the men that go to prison have sex with men unprotected then come home & give HIV to their mates which is why we have the highest HIV percentage. Also we can’t forget that Out of that 62% of black families with children are headed by a single parent. Out of that 70% of African-Americans do NOT live below the poverty line. Out of that black men in America engage in polygamous relationships, 3 ½ times that of White or Hispanic.Out of that polygamy is more common among better educated black men who presumably have more income.
I said this to say maybe if black men & black women were equal in availability the rates for interracial dating would be lower but, that’s not the case.
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Gen,
I totally agree. Many people are not empathetic to Black women’s experience because they don’t have too. Interestingly, it is the black woman who must define her value because no one else has.Hence, we are peceived differently than white women, or other ethnic groups and places at the bottom of the totum pole. Gen, your socialogical break down is right on point. You are my hero.
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Frankly,
I’ve come to the conclusion that Black Women and Black Men shouldn’t be together. Hell, we are too disfunctional. The Black Man has no power outside his home so he rules the nest like the royal King of Kenya; subgigating the black woman to survitude. Then the Black woman is reared to stay with a black man and work a full time job while cooking and cleaning, rearing and raising his childre. Then she is expected to allow him to make decisions for her. Interestingly, women who live that type of life die earlier.
It seems Black Women are more like slaves than wives. Why deal with it. Dump them and take control of your life. Forget the Black Man and let white women deal with the heartache. Oh I forgot, Black Men typically treat white women better and have different expectations of them.
A Black Man feels a Black Woman should be Happy to have him. But he is Happy to have a white woman and will break his back to keep her.
That is total disrespect of the Black Woman. By continuing to deal with the disfunction she is a co-contributor to her own demise.
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Alec says,
A Black Man feels a Black Woman should be Happy to have him. But he is Happy to have a white woman and will break his back to keep her.
That is total disrespect of the Black Woman. By continuing to deal with the disfunction she is a co-contributor to her own demise.
laromana says,
Very well said, Alec. I couldn’t agree with you more for telling the TRUTH about the NEGATIVE DYNAMIC that is a major component of MOST BM/BW relationships.
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Casey said: “but like I have said before that statistics speak for themselves and it shows that white males DON’T LIKE black women and never will.”
BW/WM marriages increased almost 149% between 2000 and 2006 (according to the Census). From 78,778 in 2000 to 117,000 in 2006; it is the fastest-growing category. There is expected to be a true explosion in numbers in the next Census. It will be interesting to see what comes out.
Perhaps it’s because I’m pretty young but in my own age group (20-somethings) it’s a common pairing.
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Hey Alec, you made a very good point about some black men trying to rule with iron fists because the welcome mat is where their power stops. I’ve definitely seen this and I think it tends to happen with men who measure their masculinity in control and in what is usually referred to as a “white man’s world” I can see how a lot of men have this hang up.
And whats funny is that I remember having a conversation a while back and saying that white supremacy societies render black men and women largely incompatible (even if we are even on each others radar) and I’m sure just like me, you got a lot of weird looks. No one likes feeling like they’re being phased out, so I get why some people don’t like “seeing” IRs (even though some are involved in one) because the math says that the people of tomorrow won’t look like you, more importantly, the people who will be in power tomorrow won’t look like you and that quite frankly, scares the daylights out of some folks. So many whites discourage it because it keeps wealth and power to them, some blacks try to “breed the black away” so they can get a piece, yet assign some other black person the duty to “carry on the race” and there are few of us on both sides of the spectrum looking on in disbelief because its just all so silly. I know “love” is colorblind but lets not kid ourselves into thinking self hate doesn’t lead many of us to mostly appreciate those who don’t look like us and thus choose them as mates. Whites can turn to any page in a fashion mag or flip to any channel and see white faces, white is so normal its not even white, a tradition of color based exclusion ensures that, so they are less inclined to widen their range of potential mates. Even more so with white men in particular, being with a non white woman will result in non white children, shifting the balance and thus signaling the end of white power and even though its not admitted, the proof is all around us that it matters A LOT.
There is a reason so many white people traditionally like blonde, because its undeniably white, which apparently is the best kind of white. Until we as a species evolve enough to stop grading each based on skin and gender this will continue.
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Frankly,
I’ve come to the conclusion that Black Women and Black Men shouldn’t be together. Hell, we are too disfunctional.
I am starting to come to the same conclusion.
The Black Man has no power outside his home so he rules the nest like the royal King of Kenya; subgigating the black woman to survitude. Then the Black woman is reared to stay with a black man and work a full time job while cooking and cleaning, rearing and raising his childre. Then she is expected to allow him to make decisions for her. Interestingly, women who live that type of life die earlier.
It seems Black Women are more like slaves than wives. Why deal with it. Dump them and take control of your life. Forget the Black Man and let white women deal with the heartache. Oh I forgot, Black Men typically treat white women better and have different expectations of them.
I think the true problem is that many Black women want to be married, but they don’t want to be wives(also true of some women of other races.)
There is a pressure on all women in society to not end up a spinster or to be the last among their girlfriends to get married. There is a pressure on men, but it is not as great or as early. People start to question women in their early 30’s if they are unmarried. Men probably get the same questions as they approach their late 30’s, early 40’s. And if the man has a visible social (and sex) life, the less questioning he will endure.
So since many men feel less pressure to be married, they will only do so if they perceive the benefits of such to be greater than remaining single.
Many women feeling the pressure to get married, do their best to put themselves in a position to be sought after for marriage.
I am speaking about men and women in general, but if you add race in the mix, it is even more dramatic for Blacks since there are fewer available Black men then Black women. The pressure is even greater on Black women than it is on other women and it is lesser on Black men than it is on other men. The pressure is lesser on White women or Asian women because they have more of a male/female balance and they have more willing outsiders (Black Men for White women and White men for Asian Women)
However getting married is one thing, being a wife is another. I think many Black women resent the pressure of getting married and they resent what reality has presented them, being at the marital mercy of Black men, who usually occupy the lowest rung of society. It is a double insult. First to have to be in the position where you need someone to desire you and then have the one you need to desire you in the lowest position. It is a triple insult when you consider that when some Black men achieve something of note, his options extend beyond her and sometimes eliminates her. It is a quadruple insult when she thinks about a non-Black man (mostly White) and throws herself upon his marital mercy but either finds herself not really interested in him (she inevitably finds out that they are not all equally powerful) or him not really interested in her (along with his history (and present) of abusing her and his disdain for her femininity.)
So if you have a woman who feels the pressure to get married yet she does not want be a wife to a man she does not respect for being low on the totem pole and does not want to be a wife to other men who considers her low on the totem pole, where does she go?
I think it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy. If you don’t want to become a wife, then no sane, rational man will be looking to make a wife out of you. Other races of women who are at peace with their choices seem nicer in comparison and the cycle continues in their favor and against Black women.
And thus we have threads like Why so few _______ men marry black women and not any threads about few men marrying other types of women. And many single Black women.
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“So if you have a woman who feels the pressure to get married yet she does not respect for being low on the totem pole and DOES NOT WANT TO BE A WIFE TO OTHER MEN who considers her low on the totem pole, where does she go?”
laromana says,
It is these kinds of GROUNDLESS, IRRATIONAL, IDIOTIC, ANTI-BW RACIST/HATER LIES, MYTHS, and STEREOTYPES that need to be DISMISSED/DESTROYED before BW are treated with the RESPECT/DIGNITY (like NON-BW are treated) they DESERVE.
BW are WOMEN FIRST who, like MOST HUMAN BEINGS, desire to be loved, pursued, and/or married QUALITY men who will treat them with honor/respect.
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Intresting how “the Author:” Truth B. Told suggests that being wife means being slave. Therefore, if a Black woman dosn’t want to be a slave to her husband then she is in the category of wanting marriage but not wanting to be a wife.
The FACT is being WIFE doesn’t mean being a slave. The Wife should not do all the work and let the husband be happy. Many Black children grow up miserable because the only one happy in their home was the Father. Why, because everything catered to the Father/Husband at the expense of everyone else in the home. The cosmopolitan 20th century Black Womans will not allow that in her home. She expects to marry a Renasaince Man. If the Black Man lacks the sophistication, education and consideration then she won’t marry him. Frankly, I don’t have to justify my choices to anyone. Therefore, Black Men has little relevance to men as it pertains to relationships because I will not be one the obedient wives of the King of Kenya.
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Laromana reply is typical of today’s Black woman. Even though I am basically saying the same thing she is saying (she herself often states White men and non-Black men as being anti-BW racists and haters and cowards – isn’t that them considering BW being on low on the totem pole?).
However since I said, she must disagree with it, even though she has said it many times herself.
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Intresting how “the Author:” Truth B. Told suggests that being wife means being slave.
Where did I suggest that being a wife means being a slave?
If a woman wants to do her own thing, good for her. Men who want to do their own thing stay single. So they will assume that a woman who wants to do her own thing will want the same and not pursue her.
Being a good wife (or husband) means making sacrifices for the good of the couple. If too many black women see that as “slavery” then that should be added to the answers to the questions “why so few _______ marry Black women?” that Abagond asks.
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The WHOLE WORLD KNOWS that the “BC” exists mainly because of the MANY YEARS of SACRIFICES that BW have made and that their “REWARD” has been to have MANY ANTI-BW/HATER BM TRASH their HUMANITY, DIGNITY, and FEMININITY for EVERYONE to see.
OBVIOUSLY, BW ARE NOT OBLIGATED to WANT to MARRY these DUMB, USELESS, DBR, EXCUSES for MEN. BW DESERVE BETTER than that.
It’s time THESE ANTI-BW/HATER BM start to do their part to SACRIFICE, SUPPORT, and DEFEND BW and the “BC” (REGARDLESS of the RACE of who they choose to date or marry) instead of CONTINUOUSLY SPREADING their ANTI-BW LIES, MYTHS, and STEREOTYPES to EVERYONE.
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Truth Be Told,
What does all of this “tandem pole” have to do with anything? Yes, black women are given the same “beauty status” as non-black women. But, if black men are so “low” then why do so many non-black women desire them and bear their children?
Anti-black racism and the after effects of slavery are the two biggest culprits of this issue as Aba explored some time ago.
Wow, 546 comments! Hot topic!
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Truth Be Told,
What does all of this “tandem pole” mess have to do with anything? Yes, black women are NOT given the same “beauty status” as non-black women. But, if black men are so “low” then why do so many non-black women desire them and bear their children? But their female counterparts are leery of marrying them? Huh?
Anti-black racism and the after effects of slavery are the two biggest culprits of this issue as Aba explored some time ago.
Wow, 546 comments! Hot topic!
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Funny how ‘Truth B. Told’ said “Being a good wife (or husband) means making sacrifices for the good of the couple. If too many black women see that as “slavery” then that should be added to the answers to the questions “why so few _______ marry Black women?” that Abagond asks.”
Touche’, the very reason black women need to run from those neanderthal black men with Jim Crow, share cropping mentality like Truth be Told has. Hell, he thinks we should make all the sacrifies and be slaves. If we follow “Truth Be Told’s advise we will be wearing burkas and walking 10 steps behind Men, satisfying there every need at the expense of ourselves. No, Slavery is not an option. Therefore No Thank you. Slavery is not marriage.
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casey i don’t think that all black women should need to stick by black men. if so many of them want white women why go running after them anyway? i hope to some day find a man that loves me for me. he might be a white guy. but i’de rather that than go running after some black guy that just isn’t interested enough anyway.
there are other races of men that like black women.probably more so european than american white men.
alek wek wasn’t found beautiful by many black men & is now with a white man who probably loves her & finds her beautiful. that man could have been black. but that should not be an issue.
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Marriage is not a master/slave relationship. It is a partnership. Both sides need to bend equally for the greater good. If one side always gets his or her way, then it is not going to be happy and it is not going to last. It is not a marriage worth having.
A woman (or a man) who always wants her way is going to wind up alone in the end.
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I do have a post like this one about why so few BLACK MEN marry black women:
https://abagond.wordpress.com/2008/06/25/2008/07/31/why-so-few-black-men-marry-black-women/
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I know this is an old post, but its wrong about #6:
http://tierneylab.blogs.nytimes.com/2007/04/13/single-female-seeking-same-race-male/
Men are beggars, women are choosers
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I addressed that in part 2 of this post:
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why are black women with white men always seem to be happy but they frowning when they are with black men? do black women with black men feel that white men will take them to the promise land?
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Most Black women are not at all attracted to white men. Do a pole on how many Black women are interested in white men. Black women like to dance, and sexually they want to be compatible, and someone who will age well with them. Many have told me Black men have all the above checked, but white men don’t have one. Do your research folks.
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Steve:
We understand your jealousy of a white man being with your black woman.
Quit making assumptions for ‘all’ black women because you are just one stubborn voice that can’t be heard.
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That’s a beautiful picture at the top abagond.
Great looking family and very beautiful kids.
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Azrazyel: Your getting me wrong, I don’t have a problem with interracial relationships. I’ve been with every woman in the rainbow, including white, so I’d have to be a hypocrite to have a problem with white men with black women. I’m also very secure, and most men who have problems with interracial relations are insecure. I’m just telling you the research I’ve done, most black women are not attracted enough to white men to have relationships with them. Go to a club and see how much play you get with a black woman as a white man. I have a beautiful black woman who happens to be a model, and that’s the only one I don’t want any man with. So I know the truth hurts, but hey. And your right, that is a great looking family above…
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Oh another thing:
This thread reeks of desperation.
A lot of white men see black women as coming off as desperate. They can’t find a good black man.
No man wants to be an ‘option’. Therefore, a lot of white males see the desperation in black women as looking to ‘settle’.
Most white men are worth more than settling. We want true love and not to be sought as an ‘option’.
That should have been another one abagond.
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Again steve:
I appreciate your comments.
You cannot possibly speak for ‘all’ black women.
Do I know these women you know?
Do I care to know?
And yes you are right. Most white men date and marry white women.
I LOVE black women and the opportunity may soon enough present itself.
I only need one. Not ‘all’ (your words) to be interested in me.
Have a good day. (:
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One more thing:
I have some research to do to see how many black women ACTUALLY love white men…..
I don’t go to clubs. Black women who go to clubs are all ghetto.
I am worth much more than that.
LMFAO
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Nice conversation you have a good day too. I think all women are beautiful and no, I don’t speak for all black women. I appreciate when people aren’t afraid to explore other cultures.
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Thank you steve.
I’m glad we can see eye to eye. lol
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To Azrazyel :
We understand your jealousy of a white man being with your black woman.
I see that you and Steve have come to some understanding but he is basically correct… most black women want to be with black men (and most white women want to be with white men but to a lesser degree than black women want to be with their own race..) They are probably the most “loyal” group in the US. I made that assertion earlier on this thread and Abagond disagreed with me until multiple comments from black women and the appearance of one study backed up my thoughts. Then he stated the other very popular thread on the same subject “Part II”.
http://tierneylab.blogs.nytimes.com/2007/04/13/single-female-seeking-same-race-male/
For equal success with an African-American woman, a Hispanic man needs to earn an extra $184,000; a white man needs to earn an additional $220,000.
For equal success with an Asian woman, an African-American needs no additional income; a white man needs $24,000 less than average; a Hispanic man needs $28,000 more than average.
Of course those figures seem hyperbolic.. $220,000 more income..?
That’s not to say of course you can’t find a black woman to date. The advantage of online dating sites is that you will know right off the bat if a black woman is not interested in dating white men.
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That’s some good points Uncle Milton.
Yes black women are most loyal out of any race or gender. I don’t know if it’s because they are just too hard headed or I’ve also heard black women have it the hardest when dating IR than any other race or gender.
A lot of black women also are put under pressure ‘NOT’ to date IR, and many thing they are the undesirables, especially from white men, hence the lesser IR couples between WM/BW.
I joined interracialdatingcentral.com without knowing what to expect.
I was very surprised at the numerous amounts of black women interested in us white men. I was actually at awe with it.
I spoke to some online their, and some said they have friends who would be interested, but are afraid of retribution from others.
A woman who was in the Air Force said the white men paid no attention to the black women on board and would always sleep with women overseas i.e. Asian, Filipina, Cuban, Puerto Rican, Guatemalan, Islander type before looking at a black woman.
Discrimination still goes on today against black women by white men.
In the end, yes white marries white, black marries black. But I think too much pressure on black women, and white men too, i.e. racial baggage, no opportunities, stigma, retribution etc. etc. is the halting point.
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One more big factor:
Older generation parents would NEVER want to see a black woman dating/marrying a man with the same skin tone that beat, raped, enslaved, tortured, hanged and lynched them 150 years earlier.
White men and black women I believe have it the hardest out of any IR couples.
Just way too much for some.
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not a news worthy or blog worthy topic-
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Hello everyone, I have read some of the replies, well I am a black woman who is married to a very handsome white male,and believe me we get more funny looks from white people, mostly older white people, the younger people just smile and speak, every now and then a brother will give us a questionable look, I do not feel like I have betrayed my race at all, due to the fact that black men has been dating white women for many years and nothing is said about it, but I think the black men that I dislike the most are the ones that will not date a large black woman, but will date a nasty large white woman, but I still have much love for brothers, and I still think they are very sexy …some of them !
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“A woman who was in the Air Force said the white men paid no attention to the black women on board and would always sleep with women overseas i.e. Asian, Filipina, Cuban, Puerto Rican, Guatemalan, Islander type before looking at a black woman.”
i don’t think ur supposed to sleep with other soldiers or airwomen in the military that could have partially been a reason, although prolly not…
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No, they’re getting it on in the military, same as the rest of us. You just can’t sleep with EVERYBODY (like someone working for you). The marriage rate of BW/WM is actually higher in the military than in the civilian population (as are all IR marriages).
Anyhow, I just wanted to respond to this:
“Black women who go to clubs are all ghetto.”
Azrazyel, I know you didn’t say that. I go out dancing with my husband regularly and I’m so not… “ghetto”.
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This blog is so stupid. I am a Black woman, and I have always been hit on sexually by WHITE MEN. I hate the sterotype of the black woman. I grew up in a middle upper class family. I did not grow up in the ghetto. I grew up in the suburbs in a 5 bedroom house. I am college educated. I am getting married to a “white” man this fall. (Oct the 24th of 2009) His family and mines are very happy that we are getting married. He tells me how beautiful I am everyday. And he loves the way I look. When I look at him, I do not see a “white” man, I see my fiancee. This blog is racist. I have had 3 white men ask me to marry them before I met my fiancee. Either you are attractive or you are not. That is what it comes down to. If you are ugly, then you are ugly- it doesn’t matter what race you are. LOL
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rennelucky take it easy
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reneelucky7,
I visited your myspace and noticed that you are in your 20’s and are from the Midwest. I am older than you and also from the Midwest and can assure you that you are definitely reaping the benefits of a VERY RECENT CHANGE where ther are more YOUNGER WM (20’s- early 30’s) who have a MORE POSITIVE/OPEN attitude towards SERIOUSLY DATING and/or MARRYING BW. This has NOT ALWAYS been the case for MOST BW in America who are older than you and even some that are your age.
Your positive dating history with WM and your upcoming marriage are EXCEPTIONS to what is happening/has happened) to MOST BW in America. The FACT is that MOST American WM are STILL not willing to SERIOUSLY DATE and/or MARRY BW and it has NOTHING to do with whether these women are “ugly” or not. This is NOT some “STUPID” or “RACIST” blog topic. This is REALITY.
Abagond’s blog is NOT “RACIST” or “STUPID” for allowing ALL of us to comment HONESTLY about our experiences with HISTORICALLY RACIST ANTI-BW attitudes that have existed/still exist in America when it comes to IRR’s between BW/WM(despite your EXCEPTIONAL, INDIVIDUAL experience).
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Thank you, Laromana.
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For myself they just don’t look that good. Occasionally I see an attractive black girl but in general they just aren’t my type. They probably think I’m homely too but that’s OK. Come on Abagond relax!
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You’re welcome, abagond. Keep up the great job you’re doing on this blog!
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wow thats weird im black and i don’t have a problem dating outside of my race.
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and that comment that says “black women are not attractive” or something like that LOL i think im prettyy no one else has ever complained 🙂
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black men like white woman no matter how fat or ugly (we call them trailer park white trash) These white woman act soooooooooooo ghetto its on real. As long as they are white its all good they are so proud to have a white woman on there are arm. You have to go to Battle Creek Michigan there is no place like it any where. that is all you see black men white woman the whole city, it is amazing to see. Sad but so true
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Just because SOME black men are like that does not mean ALL or even MOST black men are like that.
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I’m only going to say one thing and one thing only I honestly believe that it’s time for ALL of US to stop looking at color/race and start looking at the person as an individual!! Everyone has their own opinion of what they think about a person!! I don’t understand why GOD made us different races anyway but my opinion is I guess he wanted to give everyone a fair chance to choose for themselves!! We really need to put everything a side all the things we’ve been through etc and unite and be as ONE!! I pray everynite that this can someday happen!! It will be such a joyous occasion when it does!! That’s all I have to say!! Everyone please enjoy the rest of your day!!
Much ♥ ♥ ♥
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I do not care what a white man think, OR his views about racial beauty, I love my black skin, it’s perfect for me. Is this blog a joke?
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I will always date black women but it is getting harder to find a good solid lady. I have had good success with black women from Africa or the islands but not with american black women. Not all white men have those thoughts about black women in fact i have always though that they are the most beaufitul women on this planet! I simply just want to find a solid black women to live my life with!
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I am a white man who believes that black women are the most beautiful ladies on this planet. It is hard to find a solid lady for dating due to those facts presented. I get disgusted because I want to spend my life with a black women to love and cherish!
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That was very nice of you to say that Wayne!! I wish more men thought like you no matter what race they are!! Like I said in my pervious post I just hope we can all United and be as one!! The stereotyping, racial classfications & Predujice really needs to stop!! I myself am sick of it!! We need to look past race and start looking at the person as an individual and judge them on that because not everyone thinks the same!! I am a black women who loves herself and has so much to offer! I understand how you feel. It’s hard to find a good solid men out here as well. I refuse to lower myself and my standards just to be with somebody. If you can’t take me as I am, then I guess you’ll end up with nothing at all!! ( I love you Mary for that)So Wayne don’t worry I’m sure your find your perfect girl!! Keep your head up!! Enjoy the rest of your night ladies & Gents!!
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(Formerly Azrazyel)
Thank you for your words of encouragement!
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No Problem Maximus!! I just want us to be able to date, marry & have a relationship with whomever we choose to, without people looking a staring like it’s wrong!! Me personally I don’t get a f*$k who dates who!! If you like/love that person that’s all that matters! End of discussion!! Some people are so colorblind!! We don’t live in black & white!! The world is made up of many different colors and that’s how we need to see it!! I think if you haven’t they you should listen to a song by Emily King (who is by the way bi-racial) called “Colorblind”! It’s a real positive song and it makes a lot of sense!!
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I love your attitude Charlette!
So many of us look at color which causes more wrong than good.
It’s not a color issue, it’s a love issue. I see no color, I wish the emphasis of race would be wiped out and let people love each other as a human being.
Too many people looking for the bad in every race, when we should be looking for love in every race.
If only more people could see your positive outlook.
Once again, Thank You!!!
Take care.
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Thats a bunch of crap about
“when a goodlooking black woman walks down the street, white men do not even bat an eyelash” lol
yeahhh right!!!
sure!!! lol
Well I have definitely seen them looking, and sometimes even catcalling…
not to mention, the further down south you live the worse that stuff gets!
They stare, sometimes make the kissing noises and some call out “hey sweet thang”
I swear they do that shit lol and its usually the more redneck ones doing it!
My mom grew up in the 60s and she said they were doing the same things back then too lol
I hate when ppl make up garbage about how this and that doesn’t happen or never happened… when it most certainly does!!!!!
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More than likely, it’s just a matter of a combination of availability and opportunity. White men are much more likely to date black women if they’re given the chance. In a big city like New York, where whites and blacks mix all the time (especially at work where many relationships start anyway), interracial dating happens all the time. If you put a man and woman together for enough time, there will probably be an attraction. And if the guy isn’t afraid, he’ll man up and ask that woman out, black or blue. I dated my first white man several years ago because he was the only one brave enough to ask me out (brave because most white men automatically think they’ll be rejected if they approach a black woman). We’re now married. So ask that sista out on a date if you want to. It’ll be the best thing that ever happened to you – LOL!
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I agree with Jessie!! You never know that black woman maybe feeling the same way!! Shoot I would love it if a nice looking, well dressed white man approached me and asked me out!! I would say YES in a heartbeat!! I mean if you think about it the only difference between us is our skin color!! We both have two eyes, legs, arms, feet, ears, hand, a mouth, a heart etc!! The same blood that runs through his veins runs through mines!! So to my white men out here take that chance!! You never know that beautiful black woman could end up being your future wife!! 😉
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this would not happen in cuba and puerto rico where white and black mixed. it was naturally!!!! My grandmother is cuban black and my grandad is puerto rican white. its a different life there. This is crazy here in the usa . well it tells alot. I love my mix and my family. They are just scared and jealous to be in our world. Thats ok they can stay away and go to another world. LOL
WOMEN OF COLOR WILL ALWAYS BE BEAUTIFUL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Can anyone tell me how can you upload a pic?!
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To change your avatar you just need an email address and upload your picture here:
http://gravatar.org/
To upload pictures to this blog you need to email them to me and I can upload them.
To link to a picture somewhere else on the Web, just paste the link in and put it on its own line (like I did above) or, at least, make sure there is a space before and after it.
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I agree with all six of the items given, and I have a hard time seeing how the 2.2 and 1.9 rate for whites proves we are more hateful as a race. Agabond goofed up for not considering that we are a much larger portion of the American population.
Considering that, even if we dated out exclusively, and take all non-whites as dates, our IR rates would still be much lower. Non-white’s IR rates would all be 100%, and ours would only amount to roughly whatever percentage of the American population minorities compose. I’d imagine, even then, people like Agabond would complain because whites aren’t dating out as much and choose whatever BS reason he/she felt was right: must be because they’re hateful!
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Oh on a side note, I should elaborate that I do not *personally* agree with all six of the items listed, but I do think that they apply to a lot of white men. I do not find all black women, or even most black women, ugly, personally. My close family and I have had the discussion before on whether they’d be OK with me having a black gal and on the surface at least they were all OK and most seemed sincerely OK. This was relevant because I’ve dated a gal from Nigeria in the past.
The point about black women not having much exposure to white men is rather true. They don’t hang in the same flocks at very high rates, and they certainly don’t do university or even professional occupations at the same rates.
While I’ll probably end up marrying a white woman, I would not be opposed to marrying a black or Asian woman. So long as she’s styling, smart, and gorgeous I’m set! It’s just, where I am, there are white women in droves who might qualify on those counts, and not too many other women. Of course, I won’t find any woman sitting on here!
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A fair point about the numbers, but not about the hate. It seems like you did not read all the way to the end of the post, that you just jumped to conclusions.
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Justin:
You should read my comment policy. There is a link to it at the top of each page. I have deleted two of your comments because you were unable to make your point without calling people names.
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It’s not about whether MOST American WM/NON-BM find BW attractive and might consider dating and/or marrying them, it’s the difference in the way MOST American WM/NON-BM view SERIOUSLY DATING and/or MARRYING BW in COMPARISON to how the view SERIOUSLY DAITNG and/or MARRYING NON-BW.
NON-BW aren’t EXPECTED to have a high level of cultural interaction w/ WM/NON-BM, be educated, or NOT be from a ghetto/NOT be “ghetto” BEFORE they’re ACCEPTABLE for SERIOUS DATING and/or MARRIAGE to MOST American WM/NON-BM.
It’s clear that MOST American WM/NON-BM APPLY a COMPLETELY DIFFERENT (RACIST ANTI-BW)STANDARD when it comes to being attracted to, dating, and/or considering marrying BW than they do to NON-BW.
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GET OVER IT! Just because that one guy didn’t want to date you, you blame it on race. Mabye you’re just ugly?
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@ retarded I think that was pretty harsh!! Calling someone ugly is not the way to get through things!! It only adds more fuel to the fire!! Please choose your words wisely!! It doesn’t matter what anyone looks like on the outside your face, hair etc doesn’t make a person, it’s your attitude that counts!!
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retarded Says:
GET OVER IT! Just because that one guy didn’t want to date you, you blame it on race. Mabye you’re just ugly?
laromana says,
I’ve known many WW/NON-BW who describe themselves as ugly (or are considered ugly by many and don’t have much to offer) who can STILL find men who will SERIOUSLY DATE and/or MARRY them.
On the other hand, I have known many BW who are considered attractive (and have other desirable qualities-intelligence, great personalities, caring, loyal, successful,etc.) who can’t find men (of ANY race) who will SERIOUSLY DATE and/or MARRY them SOLELY because they’re BLACK.
This is the MAIN POINT of abagond’s post, not whether some RANDOM BW is being rejected by WM/NON-BM because she’s “ugly”.
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“A white man married canadian serial killer Karla Homolka AFTER she was released from jail for rape, torture and murder.
AND they have a child together, she is free now living in Canada.”
Karla Homolka is now living in the West Indies. It has been claimed that it’s St. Lucia she moved to with the father of her child. I think they may even ave since married. She changed her name to Leanne Teale.
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Right: if it were that simple there would be no post.
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Picking up on the Karla Homolka example: whites with a prison record are more likely to get a job interview than blacks without one.
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@abagond yea but it shouldn’t be like that!! Everyone deserves a fair chance!! smh I know that life can be unfair but geeshh Changes will never be taken unless there given!!!!
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I am a white male married to a black woman.
And I dont really see color, except that I feel most black women..have way better skin! LOL I know not always true..but my wife has awesome soft sweet smelling skin!
She’s my second wife and would not have met her without http://www.match.com
I never found black women hard to get along with.. and in fact when working in the field (outdoors) being in different places all the time… Black women were the EASIEST to get a smile from! White, Spanish girls tend to be a little more less friendly… and I’m white! oriental women have been hit and miss with me…never dated one probably becouse I never had the chance..I had a few almosts on match.com, but my wife and I hit it off right on the first day we met!
And I was going through my divorce with my first wife when we started to date. Imagine the difficulty there. LOL
People who look to date only their race could be missing out on their perfect match… and race is a bad word for me.
We are all from the same planet! Geeze, I think all the different religions cause most of the problems! And ignorance.
Now go out there and find your match! And don’t put all of this silly crap on top of it!
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Was that an ad?
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No not an ad…but now after I read it again…maybe i missed my calling.
🙂
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My family is full of black women either married to or having children by white men. Our ancestors had children by slave masters and it seems to have continued through successive generations. During slavery many African females bore children to slave masters, and many admittedly racist white men have gone to the “back side” of towns to get black women for sexual trysts. Strom Thurmond had a black child by the family housekeeper! The hypocrisy of pretending to be disinterested in black women, while seeking them out for “secret sex” has been a large and ignored part of our American heritage.
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adnora writes:”Our ancestors had children by slave masters and it seems to have continued through successive generations.”
what?!? so if a white man and and a black women fall in love and have childen ,you consider that to be the same as a slave master raping a women and her bearing the child?!? what? there is something wrong with your thinming patterns. yes, there are some racist bigot white guys out there that see black women as sex toys, but those same men see all women as sex toys. im not justifiying it, just pointing out. also, is it so inconseivable in your mind that a white person and a black person could love one anther?!? if so, i feel sorry for you.
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@ white guy
Yea I agree with you!! I saw that post but wasn’t going to say anything. I would hope that most white men or men in general aren’t still carrying/walking around with that slave mentality. I mean it’s 2010 it’s time to leave that ish in the past and think for the future. That is the only way it’s going to end!!
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thank you, Charlette.
it seems some people are bigots themselves[Adnora] and cant realize love has no color or creed. people like this are holding backthe progress of the modern world.
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@white male
No prob!! Just tired of this whole race thing!! It is seriously/literally making me nauseous!! LOL As long as you love each other that is the only thing that matters!! 😉
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Candace Says:
Sat 4 Apr 2009 at 04:11:36
I’m Bi-racial My Mother is White & Father is Black , I grew up in A Dominetly White Community & hung around mostly White Girl’s due to the treatment I suffered by the hands of Black sisters , I tried to hangout & be cool w/ Black Females but I never get Treated right , & not to be Racist but Most of the Black girl’s I know of are Loud & Ghetto & I’m not use to that .
I also Notice A huge Difference in how I’m waited on when I’m with A group of Mostly Only White girl’s its like You’re treated A little Different too .
Black men & White Women .. growing up My Black Father Claimed that the Reason why? He only Dated White Women is because Black Women Were too Loud & Gold-diggers & ect ect ..
My Mother who’s white Do not believe All Black Women are What these Stereotypes are & She thinks Its stupid & with her having 2 Bi-racial Mixed Daughters to her Its Ignorance upon Black men to say these things about their own Women & I grew up with my Mother telling me That I should Embrace Both Black African Culture & Irish/Italian Cultures do not Be Ashamed of My Mixed Cultures & She tried her Best in making us Hang around Black people & kids who were Black or Mixed Black cultures .
I however Growing up never Got Treated fairly So I still Hangout with White Girl’s & talk & Act White because thats what I’m use to , I However Do Date only Black men & I get Hell for it From Black Female’s .
So In away I feel just like Most White girl’s when Dealing with Black Female’s & dating Black Men .
I know in High School Me & My White Friend both date Black Football players who star Star Quarterbacks very Dark Black Handsome Guy’s & we both Got hell for Dating These Black guys because Black girl’s Got Mad & Jealous .
So From my stand point of View & viewing it From A Bi-racial side I kinda Feel that Black Women are Jealous of Bi-racial & White girl’s who Date Black guys.
I think BLack women are Scared that Black men have Lost their Lust for them & In Away I think Most Black men Have .
I kinda feel that Most Black women hate on Us White girl’s because Black men seem to treat us Better .
@Candace
I’m sorry that you got treated this way by black females, but that stereotype of us all being loud, ghetto,golddiggers etc is so untrue!! I am a black female who is very well educated & doesn’t ask anybody for anything!! It really really hurts my feelings when I hear the things that you say!! i.e. bi-racial and white females are not the only ones who get treated unrudely by black females, black females also get treated unfairly by other black females!! I can literally write a book on how bad I got treated by other black females!! I never had too many black girlfriends and if I did they were just like me!! I was always the type of girl who wanted to do good, who went to school everyday and got good grades and because of this I got shit for it!! While they were all hanging out in the bathrooms, smoking and cutting class, I was busting my butt in the classroom pulling straight A’s on the regular!!I got called stuck up, weirdo & nerd because of the way I was!! I only had a handful of friends and they were hispanic, white & one asian girl!! So you see it’s not just ya’ll who get treated this way!! On the flip-side I could care less who anyone dates. If you love each other that’s all that matters!! We don’t see in black & white but rather in color!! And trust me no one is jealous of white or bi-racial females. Black women are beautiful and we come in all different colors, shades and sizes!! I love my black men and I will continue to do so!! but at the same time I will not discriminate either!! If a man of a different race approaches me and we click then it’s all good!! Black men need to start searching and looking for black women who have themselves together instead of the first one who is willing to open up their legs!! That’s what’s the problem. Our men are settling for anything!! They need to open up their eyes and see that there are good black women out here instead of giving up so easily!!
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eeesh. i never knew these “problems” even existed in the U.S. until i came online…you’re ALWAYS analyzing and overanalyzing every…little…thing.
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Candace,
I’m sorry that you weren’t treated well by CERTAIN BG’S when you were growing up but I think it’s wrong to use that as an excuse to believe the RACIST ANTI-BW LIE that ALL BW are “loud, ghetto, golddiggers.” The FACT is that there are GOOD and BAD women in EVERY racial group. Singling out ALL BW as “loud,ghetto,golddiggers” (or some other ANTI-BW LIE/MYTH/STEREOTYPE)is RACIST.
Although MANY BM DEGRADE/DISRESPECT/DEMEAN ALL BW by spreading RACIST ANTI-BW LIES/MYTHS/STEREOTYPES to JUSTIFY ONLY dating and/or marrying NON-BW, your Mother was right to teach you NOT to buy into this RACIST ANTI-BW mindset.
It is sad to see that MANY DBR BM are the ONLY men on the planet who think it’s right to DEGRADE/DISRESPECT/DEMEAN BW (the women who most resemble their MOTHERS, GRANDMOTHERS, SISTERS, etc.). This is especially OUTRAGEOUS when you stop to consider that the ONLY reason BM even exist is because a BW CHOSE to give birth to them and (in MOST cases) made MAJOR SACRAFICES to raise them. The UNGRATEFUL, SELF HATING, ANTI-BW attitudes/actions of MANY DBR BM may help to explain the anger that you see SOME BW displaying towards them.
You also need to know that historically American society has ALWAYS promoted ANTI-BW RACISM/ HATE in order to excuse many UNSPEAKABLE CRIMES (rape, gang rape, child sex abuse, murder, etc.) against BW.
In my youth I was mistreated by BG’s and WG’s but I also had friends who were BG’s and WG’s. The FACT is that there are ill behaved
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Candace said:
I kinda feel that Most Black women hate on Us White girl’s because Black men seem to treat us Better .
I thought you were “Bi-racial”?? give me a break you are a troll starting some mess up in here fly girl by girl
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annony Says:
Mon 30 Nov 2009 at 15:51:14
eeesh. i never knew these “problems” even existed in the U.S. until i came online…you’re ALWAYS analyzing and overanalyzing every…little…thing.
@annony
You have a point we are very analytical here in the US but that’s just the way it is!! If the US wasn’t so damn racist we wouldn’t have that problem but we do!! smh That’s just the way it is!!
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There a many types of men that like black women, especially dominant black woman. Hence, many espouse that trait is the very thing that turns black men and others off. However, there are men out there who appreciate assertiveness, and desire female led relationships. It’s not very mainstream but there is a growing female led relationship community. Most of men that are seeking these types of relationships are not black. I’ve just recently started a blog http://smoothfemdom.blogspot.com
. I’ve gotten some really interesting emails; all from european men. So maybe if black women tapped into the mainstream, and off the beaten path they may find what they seek. Just a thought.
Best,
BCR from
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BCR Says:
Tue 1 Dec 2009 at 16:50:20
There a many types of men that like black women, especially dominant black woman. Hence, many espouse that trait is the very thing that turns black men and others off. However, there are men out there who appreciate assertiveness, and desire female led relationships. It’s not very mainstream but there is a growing female led relationship community. Most of men that are seeking these types of relationships are not black. I’ve just recently started a blog http://smoothfemdom.blogspot.com
. I’ve gotten some really interesting emails; all from european men. So maybe if black women tapped into the mainstream, and off the beaten path they may find what they seek. Just a thought.
Best,
BCR from
@BCR very interesting blog!!
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I am only into one race… “HUMAN RACE”
Get over this stuff already and move on to 2010 and beyond people!
Captain Kirk had the right idea… White, Black, Yellow, GREEN, PURPLE, Blue…its all good! He’s my hero LOL
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@Stan
Thanks Love!! I couldn’t agree anymore!! Happy Holidays as well!! 🙂
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I find it very interesting and telling that when asked why they don’t date Black women, White men usually say it’s because there aren’t many Black women where they live and work or just not in their enviornment. Meanwhile, White men have no problem finding excuses to get to Asia and Latin America to find women. GO WHERE THE BLACK WOMEN ARE! Before I moved back into a mainly Black community I lived in a mostly White and mixed areas. Still very few BW/WM relationships. Most of the Black women living in those area’s tend to be open to IR. I was one of them but was virtually ignored, even when I flirted. Perhaps they are just not that into us? For whatever reason. As a Black woman I can’t go outside my race and gender to feel and think what others are thinking of me. I’m sensitive and can usually tell what people are thinking of me but I will not do men’s thinking for them. I don’t want to, I shouldn’t have to. My personallity is best matched with the type of man who is direct and forthcoming.
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marnie2010 says,
I find it very interesting and telling that when asked why they don’t date Black women, White men usually say it’s because there aren’t many Black women where they live and work or just not in their enviornment. Meanwhile, White men have no problem finding excuses to get to Asia and Latin America to find women. GO WHERE THE BLACK WOMEN ARE!
laromana says,
marnie 2010,
Thanks for sharing your excellent insights. My experience with being ignored by WM/NON-BM in a mostly White/mixed area has been/is exactly like yours (being virtually ignored for relationships by the WM/NON-BM in the area)and I was ALWAYS open to IRR’s.
Like you, I feel that the WM/NON-WM who are TRULY interested in IRR’S with BW should be DIRECT in expressing their interest (LIKE THEY ARE WITH NON-BW) instead of expecting BW to do their thinking for them.
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To the girl who said I’m starting mess up in here & that she thought I was Bi-racial .
When I say White girls like Us I do mean Both Bi-racial girls who look white & White girl’s & it is true if your lighter then most Black women or you look white you do get hell from most black women especially if you look nearly White to them they will give you hell for Dating A Black Man .
ask any White girl Or Bi-racial Girl who looks nearly White & they’ll tell they do get Hell from mostly black female’s for dating black men & i have gotten into fights over my black boyfriends due to black women saying why don’t i date my own , i’m like i’m half black what is my own ………..lol
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I’m a Black woman, and everytime I’ve thought about me sleeping with or marrying a white man,I get nauseous. In spite of the fact that there’s a perceived “male shortage” there are tons of BW who are just as disinterested in WM then they are in us(lol)and would prefer and are much happier to stay single than to marry a wm or accept an unqualified black man.
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There are a large number of Black women who will only marry Black men. Black women often have higher levels of education than Black men but are willing to marry down in order to stay within the fold. The bottom line is that people in an ideal state should marry whoever they please. I married a Black Woman. I am Jewish (ethnically speaking) We both had no apprehension whatsoever about marrying one another since we share both education and attraction. We have a beautiful daughter who may be perceived by some (both white and Black) as “Black” but will hopefully rise above the prison of lingering segregation.
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As a freak-in-the-face, I (white male 34) would say that one of the worst things a person could ask for is living in a world as totally different than the rest. These things are considered carefully by those future parents who are mindful and compassionate. I disagree strongly that racism is the culprit. It is the concept of fear of raising a child that does not resemble them or their peers closely. The “like father like son” is very much alive and well, and I have no problems with it. So, dear author, while you are playing “look at me”, you should be thinking a little deeper. I personally find most women to be unattractive and immature. Here in WI, it’s tough to get around them…impossible to get around non-whites..even for many “normal-looking” guys. I hate aggressive women, naturally, and my perceptions of black women have them being more than that. The few black women I’ve seen in real life have acted totally insane. I have no reason in the world to pursue black women as I’ve never had anything to do with them. Come to think of it, there’s never been good reason to pursue any woman in general…sounds like way too much work and then some. Tell me, OP, are you hostile to freaks-in-the-face while you are not racist? Lie to me.
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Singling out BW to GENERALIZE NEGATIVE TRAITS to them is ANTI-BW RACISM/HATE, pure and simple.
Unfortunately, MOST American WM (like G. above) have HISTORICALLY chosen to INVENT ANTI-BW LIES, MYTHS, and STEREOTYPES in order to justify VIOLATING the HUMANITY, DIGNITY, and FEMININITY of BW through their actions/attitudes. ANY INTELLIGENT/RATIONAL human being knows that there are women with good and bad characters IN EVERY RACE.
It’s PATHETIC to see that nearly a decade into the 21st century there is STILL so much ANTI-BW RACISM/HATE in the minds of MANY American WM/American society.
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Kathy is just as much a part of the problem regarding interracial interaction as the self titled, Genius.
Getting “nauseous” over the very thought of being with a “white man” smacks of racism.
Much like the tone emanating from white supremacists in the United States and Germany of old (google the Nuremberg Laws). This country is diseased by its long tawdry history of race.
We would be foolish to think we are living in a post-racial world with the election of President Obama.
I think Black women are more often than not, very beautiful. I feel a stronger physical attraction to Black women over most white women. In the case of a relationship however, there is much more than beauty at stake. Any relationship must have some kind of common denominator. This is the hardest part for all people seeking a long term relationship.
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Shai says,
Kathy is just as much a part of the problem regarding interracial interaction as the self titled, Genius.
Getting “nauseous” over the very thought of being with a “white man” smacks of racism.
I think Black women are more often than not, very beautiful. I feel a stronger physical attraction to Black women over most white women. In the case of a relationship however, there is much more than beauty at stake. Any relationship must have some kind of common denominator. This is the hardest part for all people seeking a long term relationship.
laromana says,
Although I agree with your above statement, I don’t agree with the notion that BW, by virtue of being Black, are somehow “more difficult” than NON-BW to find common ground on which to build relationships.
ALL relationships (REGARDLESS of the RACE or ethnicity of the people involved) require hard work to be successful.
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I agree with laromana response to my recent comment.
There are complications to be found in a relationship with any individual. This would explain a number of phenomena.
One the high divorce rate in America as well as the popularity of online matchmaker services. This stands with disregard to heterogamous or monogamous marriages
People may select to segregate themselves from romance with people from other racial and ethnic groups. But this is their loss as well as ours.
I would say that religion is sometimes a legitimate factor in that it reflects a life style that could conceivably impact the raising of children. I do not subscribe to any Western religion (I am a Pantheist) and would not want my children brought up otherwise. I expect a parallel response from a devout individual regarding their raising of children within a faith.
That said, I see the mixing of cultural, national and racial groups a very healthy development from the perspective of overcoming longstanding fears and yes, creating healthier offspring.
The bottom line however is the love and interaction the couple shares for one another
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I have dated many Black Women during my years of being single. I find that the type of Black Woman that I like are the ones who don’t have the Black Woman attitude.
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What in the world is a ‘black woman attitude’??
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Maybe you have the White man attitude. Ever think about that? We’re going by your logic here of course..
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White men are racist: They do not want their sons and daughters to be black.
If this is, indeed, true, then… Well, there’s nothing I can say about this subject. It’s beyond disgusting.
However, I wonder… Is is the same with white women/black men relationships? Do white women marry black men more often? If yes, does that mean white women want their children to be black (or, at least, don’t care if they’re white or not). This imply that white women are less racist than white men… Something I am not so sure about.
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Of course racism plays a pivotal role regarding relationships in the United States. But the frequency or lack of white men and black women marrying is premised on educational background, socio- economic issues and location. Chicago has a reputation for being socially segregated. Portland and Seattle is known as a more open society.
The South is the South.
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I would not get too in love with “educational background, socio- economic issues”: there is a huge oversupply of single black women with university degrees.
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Mira
That is a good question. Are white men more or less concerned with the color of their children in comparison with white women? Sometimes I think that women in general are just more attached to their children after carrying them for nine months etc.I mean men( not just white men) are more likely to abandon their children. But are white men more likely to be racist against their own children.? Maybe it depends on the individual. What do other people think?
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By the way, that is a beautiful photo of an interacial family. Beautiful family.
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I think white American men are way more racist against their black children.
First, they made up the One Drop Rule which meant that their very own children became slaves!!!! In what other country did men let their children become slaves when they had the power to prevent it? I would be interested to know that because I do not know of any. Men have seen their children become slaves in other countries, but it was always against their will.
Second, that may all be Ancient History but I doubt it for two reasons:
1. Even for white people whose families never owned slaves, even those whose families came to America long after the slaves were freed, they still have many of the views of black people that slave owners did. They get it from the white society that those men created.
2. While I see white women with black children every now and then I cannot remember seeing a white man alone with black children who are presumably his. And this is in supposedly liberal New York where you see thousands of people! Maybe I hang out in the wrong parts of the city or something.
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By the way, that picture at the top of the post – of a white man with his black wife and black children – was hard to find.
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You are not wrong Abagond. I go to Barnard and I really don’t see it either. It just seems like black women in particular are at the bottom rung for ALL men. It’s insulting.
From my own observations here is the rank:
White Women
Asian Women
Latinas [acceptable/PC looking]
Black Women [acceptable/PC looking]
I worry about this as I get older about how I will be approached– or not as a result.
While I think there is beauty in women of all races, my male counterparts do not seem to think so [go figure]. Its almost like being in Grade school.. like we have cooties or something. If a man was serious about a women, they would talk to them, period. As it turns out they’re just not that into us.
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About pictures: Now that you mentioned it, it is hard to find some featuring white man and his black wife and children (unless he’s a celebrity). I do remember only one, but I am almost sure father wasn’t an American (nor was mother).
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That’s because white men think they are water-walking demi-gods and it would be beneath them to be seen with a black woman and to have black children with a black woman.
But if they do marry a black woman and have children with her (as some of them do)- why would they refuse to post family photos? Why is it so hard to find pictures?
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there are far too many generalizations circulating in this thread. so while, white people initiated the racist equation, black people have picked up the gauntlet and have furthered the white separatist message in reverse. How many black mothers fear their children may marry “out” which means a “rejection” of being black?
Those open to serious relationships from both the wm/ bw equation, respectively, are rare.
That said, there are plenty of interracial groups online out there which promote relationships between black women and white men. I do not have details as to the ratio of success.
i met my wife online. She is black. It worked for us.
we have a kid too and want another. i post pictures of my daughter all the time. she is beautiful .
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@shai
Good for you Shai!! ♥ Many blessings to you & your family!! 🙂
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“First, they made up the One Drop Rule which meant that their very own children became slaves!!!! In what other country did men let their children become slaves when they had the power to prevent it?”
I gotta say that one always amazed me. Not just did they make them slaves the made them their own slaves often enough. that’s pretty barbaric. The one thing that always bothered me though was the fact that white men in slavery who fathered baby girls by black women would allow their own daughters to be sold on the sex market to other white men? How can any man call himself a man and allow that to happen to his own flesh and blood when he has the power to stop it. that’s what always struck me as astounding and not in a good way.
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Even for white people whose families never owned slaves, even those whose families came to America long after the slaves were freed, they still have many of the views of black people that slave owners did. They get it from the white society that those men created.
Abagond, this is an oversimplification common among anti-racist activists who really haven’t thought about the history of white american racisms – yes, -isms. Plural.
The typical anti-racist view is that all racism is the same in america. While all racisms do indeed communicate and influence each other, they are not the same and their effects on black people are not the same.
So when you say “white immigrants got their views from slave owners”, your making an ahistoric gloss which, in my view, doesn’t help us to disentangle racism.
I can think of at least two mega-trends in white racism, off hand: segregationism and assimilationism. Both the north and the south had distinct variants of these, so that makes at least four traditions white people draw from when informing themselves about race.
As a white boy who grew up in German colonies in the north, I can tell you that the racism I learned as a kid was DEFINITELY not of the slave-holder variety. It is the northern Lutheran immigrant variety. It does not presume that blacks are innately inferior, rather, it presumes that the races are radically equal as humans and it takes “our” German Lutheran cultural presuppositions as the defining line of what is “human”. This is more properly ethnocentrism than racism, so far.
Where it becomes racism is when this attitude is inserted in the general American political complex of race.
What happens then is that you get this view that: “Hell, my great-greats came over from the fatherland without a pot to piss in and look at what we have now. Blacks have been here longer than we have. What the hell is wrong with them?”
This is the type of white who voted en masse for Obama and it seems to me that many black people have a difficult time understanding what he is about.
He is racist, yes, and certainly some part of his archive of racist imagery comes from the Old South, yes, but what REALLY motivates his racism is his belief that blacks have been given far more than his ancestors and yet have done far less with it because they are still not acting like “normal” people.
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@peanut:
It’s awful what these so-called “men” did reducing their offspring as mere goods to be sold. Heartless, I say. It leaves you shaking your head.
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That was insightful Thaddeus, that is the kind of dialoque from whites that helps me understand exactly where some of the racism stems from.
Usually we get the ‘I dont care if you’re blue, green yellow or pink’ or the more offensive ‘blacks are ghetto’ variety of white spiel. Which hardly explains nor dispels any complexities surrounding racism on their part.
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while we speak of past and current racism ….and the oft stated belief that white men are simply not interested in black women there are plenty of sites that promote the opposite:
http://www.interracialdatingcentral.com/blog/why-white-men-love-the-black-woman.htm
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1355/is_10_102/ai_91088599/
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Well, actually MerriMay, I’m only a little white… 😉
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But seriously, growing up in German Wisconsin, my mom threatened to wash my mouth out with soap if she ever heard the “n-word” come out of it. My Grandma voted for Roosevelt ’til the day she died and, if she were alive to see Obama today, she’d classify him as the second coming of FDR. She had a “Heaven is a mixed neighborhood” poster on her wall since the 1960s utnil the day she died.
But all these very dear and sincere people have very clear-cut ideas about what’s right and what’s wrong.
They love my wife, for example, because as a black woman with PhD and a classical education whose mom’s a history teacher and who’s more into ballet, classical music and German cuisine than me, Ana epitomizes the belief that anyone can in fact be essentially a German Lutheran. And that’s what they see in Obama as well. He’s a good boy (and they don’t mean that in the southern racist sense: they mean that in the northern ethnic sense, as in “one of the boys from around here who’s done good with himself”).
Again, I’d qualify this more as ethnocentrism than racism. It becomes racist in the American historical and political context. But my family, for example, would get along much better with upstanding, church-going, working and middleclass blacks than they would with white trash (though they’d never use that term) who hang out down at Louie’s Bar, who think the Posse Comitatus and militia movement are the bee’s knees and who toss racist epithets around as if it were no big thing.
They were appalled by Sarah Palin.
They would be horrified at a white person expressing the “southern slave holder view” and have enough historical background to understand that that is what their great-greats fought against. The family’s orginal founder got off the boat from Germany and was basically drafted into the Union Army (if you’ve seen Gangs of New York, that’s how I imagine the scene, though perhaps not so radical) and from boyhood on, I was made very aware of the abolitionist history of the north. I grew up believing Martin Luther King was one of the greatest men in America and I don’t just mean that in the typical white “I love MLK Day” sense. I mean people explained to me why he was great and why what he did made him an American hero. That’s how they see him back home: an AMERICAN hero. Not a black hero.
None of this means I’m free of racism. But you’d better believe it is a different view of race than that held by “Southern slave holders”. My family would still fight the Civil War at a drop of a hat if they had to and have always looked on Southern romanticism as BS developed by a bunch of corrupt, profoundly unamerican fools.
Again, I want to salient that none of this means we aren’t racist in our own way. But it’s an ASSIMILATIONIST racism, not a segregationist racism and there’s definitely enough room in that world view for miscegenation.
In this generation, my family would be far more upset if I married an uneducated woman than a black woman. Historically (back a few generations) they’d have been far more upset if I’d have married a Catholic. A university professor who’s an atheist and likes German food? Frankly, I think they’re surprised I landed her. 🙂
Now, that doesn’t mean “black doesn’t come into it at all”. I have a VERY racist great aunt who married into the family and who was originally from southern Illinois, I believe. When Ana first came to dinner, everyone pulled me aside at one point and said “you’ve warned her about Aunt May, haven’t you?” and no one was proud of it, but hell, she’s family. What do you do? Turn her out on the street because of her views of a situation that never came up before? In the event, Aunt May was quite civilized and we were all relieved. Ana was amused by the whole thing: THAT sort of racism isn’t what worries her.
The best way of describing hegemonic racism in Wisconsin, perhaps, is to quote the phraes I heard alot from people when growing up (not my family, however): “Wisconsin isn’t racist. We don’t have any blacks here.”
Wrong, on at least three counts. 😦
But I’m looking forward to the comments on our kids. Kids often start out much lighter than they eventually become (I was straw blond as a kid) and here in Brazil, I’ve seen a lot of mulatto kids who start out practically white and blond and who over time darken dramatically.
So I’m wondering what the reactions are going to be if and when our kids turn out very light, at least at first. It’s impolite in my family to mention color and there’s no historical context at all for understanding the biological twists which occur with miscegenation. 🙂
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Mira, how and where are you looking for these family photos? I was able to find a few everyday family photos without much effort.
I do grant that they seem less common than the reverse situation, but the photos are out there.
I think children might be one of the reason, but I’m not sure it’s the main reason why. I have spoken to my SO about children and he admitted to liking the idea of blond children (as he is blond and most of his family is as well). But he doesn’t mind if his children are not blond as long as they are his.
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I simply searched for photos of interracial couples. I wasn’t really doing any serious research, but I noticed a couple of things. When you dismiss photos of famous couples and photos made for ads (for specialized dating sites, for example), you are left with very little images that feature a black woman and a white man as a couple.
Finding family photos with kids is always a bit tricky because many people don’t want to post children photos on Internet.
In any case, any search will bring you more photos of white woman/black man couples than black woman/white man ones.
I don’t think interracial couples have much chance of having blond children (but I believe it can happen). Even white couples are less likely to have blond kids if one of them is dark haired. On the other hand, kids’ hair often change colour. Mine was black when I was a baby, and now is dark brown. My husband was blond as a child and his hair is almost black now.
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When you dismiss photos of famous couples and photos made for ads (for specialized dating sites, for example), you are left with very little images that feature a black woman and a white man as a couple.
Not many of the photos I found were for dating sites or ads. They were mostly personal pictures. But I think, in general, people aren’t too keen on posting pictures of their family online.
In any case, any search will bring you more photos of white woman/black man couples than black woman/white man ones.
True, and that would make sense considering that of interracial couples involving a black partner, it is more often the man that is black than the woman.
I don’t think interracial couples have much chance of having blond children (but I believe it can happen). Even white couples are less likely to have blond kids if one of them is dark haired.
I’ve seen it happen often, actually. But I guess it depends on how we are defining blond; the kids are usually darker blond than bleach blond. Would you consider Garcelle Beauvais’ twin boy (on the left in the first pic) to be blond? The twins’ father is white, although not a blond and very dark-haired.
So there is a chance our kids may be blond even if he weren’t blond himself. I imagine the chances are higher because he is blond and most of his family is blond going back to his great-grandparents (Swedish and Norwegian descent).
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The majority of people of Northern European descent are blond as small children, but only a smallish minority remain so as they grow up.
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It’s interesting how Black Women on this list have been so conditioned to limit themselves. I am sure all the comments do apply to different types of men and women. There sure there are dominant Black Women and submissive black women, as I am sure there are white men that find Black Women attracted as there are white men who don’t find them attractive. In the same respect, there are black women who are conservative and there must be Black Woman that are liberal socially and sexually. Further I am sure there are white men that are only interested in Black Women for sex as there are others that generally want long term relationship that lead to marriage.
Clearly, one has to be open to the many possibilities to discover your options. However, if you are closed up, have hang ups about rejection, issues regarding the intentions of men based on race, and lack the understanding how get a man then you will continue to say the things you say on this list. I think it’s important to be open, but use discretion and brains while dealing with any man. The reason for discretion, is that any man will take an opportunity to have meaningless sex, or subjugate a woman if she allows him by giving her power over to him. One can be delightful without being a submissive door mate who allows a man to take advantage of you. If a relationship doesn’t occur then you should not be intimate or give him any sexual attention. If he pushes the relationship from friends to the next level meaning an exclusive relationship, then intimacy could be considered if you choose so. Your actions of pulling away will communicate to a man that you are woman to be respected, not used. That happens through your actions, not heated words or aggrivated communication. First don’t tell him anything about the number of men you are dating. Even if he asks, cahnge the subject and suggest that he is the only one without actually saying it. Then dangle carrots without making demands. Don’t give him what he so wants and you won’t have regrets if it dosn’t work out. All you have to do is to respond to his advances with a tease but never remove any clothing or get disheveled. A sensual kiss, a caressing soft touch and connect through good chemistry between your personalities, making sure to always stand in his personal space and even put your hands on his waste in affirmative way so that he feels that you are with him, connected. But when he makes advances to get sexual respond with the tease but never put yourself in a situation where he could be angered, just frustrated. That will either motivate him to ask you to be his girlfriend or it will make him give up. If he asked you to be his girlfriend, then never spend the night with him. The more you lovingly frustrate him, and peak his interest the greater his desire to commit to you will become. I am not suggesting you be aloof, I am simply saying DON’T give him everything while building a relationship. If he has the milk he won’t need to buy the cow. Therefore, he must have a reason to feel like he needs to marry you, or has to have you. Of course, if he gives up, then that reveals his ulterior motives. But remember that you don’t want to put him through tests or give ultimatives. You should talk to him like you adore him (as if he is perfection and you accept his idiosycrosies), like you are about him but your schedule limits time together. Then do not give him the sexual attention, emotional and time that you would if you were married. Don’t cook for him alot either. One good meal is enough. If he is black, he will trying to get that meal often, but give excuses to build his need. When his soul is hungry he will hunger for you more. The reason is that is what makes him feel that if you were married he would have all of you. Therefore, two years later he will pop the question, because he wants all of you. Especially if he respects you, loves you and can’t have the time or the sexual attention he really wants with you. If the carrot is dangled the rabbit will follow. He will want more from you.
I find that Black women are not taught how to get a man and close the deal. They seem to let men choose the,, which results in them taking what ever they can get. Black women often expect men initiate friendship. The reality is that you should initiate a friendship with the man of your choice and woo him with your charm and grace. Charm means personality and humor. Grace means appearance and the lovely way you carry yourself. When you engage him in friendship, there is a developmental process which hooks him into craving you, needing you, wanting you. But many Black women don’t understand it. As for other races of men, if you understand his needs and values, it won’t be hard to date him and or find your next husband. If he isn’t insecure he won’t be on that search for something better if he thinks he found miss right to become mrs. right.
Consequently, many of you are correct, there is racism, and Black women are on the bottom of the totem poll. However, Black woman do have options but they limit those options due to their own insecurities and cultural dysfunctions. Often times it is a remnent of their childhood, or passed down from their parents. If the parents have a bad relationship, or there is no father in the house, or the parents have low self esteem, then they are unable to teach their daughters how to choose and build healthy relationships. It is abundantly clear on this list serve that it’s the case. I hate that black women are sexualized, denigrated and burdened by patriarchal dominance. It’s a function of people from the African Diaspora for centuries. However, one would think that education would afford Black women the opportunity to be enlightened. But instead, black women continue to share the same antiquated and dysfunctional values that their uneducated ancestors embraced. Therefore, so many are alone with fatherless children, raising children alone, or in inequitable relationships with men,and or resort to women.
This two year thread is really not about the viability of white men and black women. The stats tells that the numbers are growing and therefore, many educated Black Women are marrying men of other cultures and creeds. But this thread shows me that their are such entrenched ingrained dysfunctional relationship values amongst Black Women that they can not get any man. It’s not just the men. It’s the women. Black Women have not been taught by their mothers and fathers how to get or have a long term relationship leading to marriage. Talking to yourselves on this list just perpetuates the crazy. It’s like crazy validating crazy but you both have no man or even a clue. It’s so ridiculous it is almost unbelievble.
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hey i still want the post on ” why so few black women marry white men?”
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i don’t think preferring black men in limiting.
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*is limiting
i think there are eligible black men. I think only being around men who are no good and take advantage of you and who don’t respect you is limiting. I am pretty much open to all men, but I still culturally prefer my own race to be honest. At the least I prefer someone that can empathize with what its like to be black in a world that hates black people.
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I must say that I am very attractive to white men. This attraction is so disturbing, not that I do not want it to be like that, but because of the fact that it is rare to have white men liking black women. I have now reached a stage in my life where I do not want to get involved with a man unless he is white. In my short life I have experienced hurt from black guys, and the few white men that I have had the pleasure of knowing or being involved with have put a spell on me. I am not saying that I would never get involved with a black man again, but they need to come better. I also know that not all black men are the same, it’s just that I haven’t run into any exceptional ones. Living in the Caribbean limits my opportunity to date outside my race, because everyone tends to stick to their own kind. I am just saying that I as a black woman am open to dating white men , but it would be nice if they too were open to dating outside their race. The same way black men are open about it.
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@Caribbean Sugar
OMG!! Girl I have been feeling the same way as of lately!! I have been finding myself to be more and more attractive to white men!! I, like you wish they would open up a little bit more as well!! I mean I love me some black men and I have not given up on them but I agree most of them do need to come correct!! They need to treat us like they treat their mothers, aunts, sisters and white women!! I mean we deserve the same respect!! Just because where not in your family doesn’t mean you should treat us any kind of way!! Another thing to my white men all black women on the contrary to what you’ve heard are not ghetto, uneducated, on welfare or have a bunch of kids!! Their are plenty of wonderful black women out here, trust me there are!! I really think that we as people need to start judging people on an individual basis instead of as a group!! The key is to be open minded. It’s 2010 not 1890!! 🙂
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@ Thaddeus
“But I’m looking forward to the comments on our kids. Kids often start out much lighter than they eventually become (I was straw blond as a kid) and here in Brazil, I’ve seen a lot of mulatto kids who start out practically white and blond and who over time darken dramatically.
So I’m wondering what the reactions are going to be if and when our kids turn out very light, at least at first. It’s impolite in my family to mention color and there’s no historical context at all for understanding the biological twists which occur with miscegenation.”
LOL What fun. Coming from a very mixed family this is definitely not a taboo subject for me. My son had, for the first two years of his life, jet black hair and gun metal gray eyes that changed to medium brown hair and brown eyes. He has had the complexion of a redhead and the sunburn misery that goes with it from the day he was born and he is 23. My daughter was born with strawberry blonde hair and blue eyes that went first green, and then settled into a green/hazel. She was much fairer (though not as pale as her brother) when she was a baby. Today she is an olive toned golden blonde at 20.
Both my ex and I have brown eyes. My daughter’s hazel green eyes are a throwback to my greatgrandfather on my mom’s side who had green eyes. Both of my kids have my eye shape, but my son shares with me the more pronounced native american slant that makes people think there is Korean or Chinese in the background and when he was a baby I had a lot of people asking if my ex were Korean or Japanese (we lived near a military base as my ex was an MP at the time). Genetics is funny that way.
Don’t get me started on hair!
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@Caribbean Sugar
I can easily say the same thing just replace the “men” part with “women.”
I don’t know where people get the idea of the white man is “cultured”, “intelligent” “they know how to treat their women” and all the other c***.
You should go out on the piss (get drunk) in the U.K. with me!
That will change you minds about the white man being “cultured”, “intelligent” “they know how to treat their women” and all the other c***.
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I don’t know where people get the idea of the white man is “cultured”, “intelligent” “they know how to treat their women” and all the other c***. (…) That will change you minds about the white man being “cultured”, “intelligent” “they know how to treat their women” and all the other c***.
True, true.
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It is not that white men are more cultured. But white men have more of opportunity to become educated since it is a white person’s world.
It is impossible to lump all white people together. Within this designation you have no sense of unity or homogeneity.
For example, Italian Americans tend to be not as liberal or institutionally educated as Caucasian Jews. They do not view each other as kindred spirits even though they tend to look similar (Mediterranean).
We are really talking about an issue of class and education which leads us through some detours of discussion. A working class white person is more often than not, far from being cosmopolitan and will not seek a well educated black woman.
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But then again, why would a well educated black woman want to be with a working class man of any race?
(Don’t get me wrong, it’s not that I don’t support this kind of relationships… But I do think it’s rare for people to marry below their education level- especially if women are those with higher education).
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This and other postings on why so few white men marry black women has generated at least 1,500 posts so far. This is because Black and White interracial relationships have always been controversial and contentious throughout the history of the United States. Many of the responses are defensive, followed by denial and outright hatred on the trolls and racists’ part. They’re not interested in true debate or dialogue whatsoever.
I want to thank Abagond for having the courage to post this controversial topic while withstanding the bigotry, denial, and defensiveness on the part of white posters here and on all other posts on this much needed blog.
La Reyna
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Mira,
Your point is well taken. A person in general should seek out someone they are compatible with on many levels.
As a secular Jew, I have little in common to share with a religious Jew or someone who does not appreciate or have a modicum of empathy for my liberal politics or culture.
My wife, who is Black, share a good number of things in common. It is also through her that I can understand, to some degree, issues of racism.
We are both educated and like a number of similar cultural points (films, art etc). We also share a similar diet ( I am a vegan, she is a vegetarian) We also share a concern for our daughter’s education and invest much time into her education and school.
We do have differences like many couples. But they are not overwhelming.
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@ Vindicator
I never mentioned anything about anybody being cultured. It is just that my experience with the different races has led me to come to my conclusion. I know that when talking about different groups, there is no way a person could generalize about what kind of person a person is based on where they come from or what they are. I know that there are sweet black men out there, and that there are some white men that are some real assholes. I am just saying that I do find white men attractive, but the majority of them do not find black women attractive. The black men/ white women realtionships are more prominent than black women/ white men relationships. That should say something.
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Vindicator
@Caribbean Sugar
I can easily say the same thing just replace the “men” part with “women.”
I don’t know where people get the idea of the white man is “cultured”, “intelligent” “they know how to treat their women” and all the other c***.
You should go out on the piss (get drunk) in the U.K. with me!
That will change you minds about the white man being “cultured”, “intelligent” “they know how to treat their women” and all the other c***
I AGREE 100%
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• There are several reasons why it’s perceived to be hard to date black women, but that perception is based primarily on stereotypes and misunderstanding. Black women are as uniquely individual as any other demographic category of people and should be treated as such. One of the biggest mistakes that men make when dating black women is in treating them as an object, instead of as a woman. Any man desiring to have a strong relationship with any woman had better understand that he must first get to know that woman as an individual. Each individual is different, and that includes women of the African American community black women have long been unfairly stereotyped. Those stereotypes have come and gone with generational changes in society, from the “mammy” type image presented in the first moving pictures, to the booty-shaking “hood girls” of today’s music videos. And, with each new generation comes a new perceived image of the black woman, regardless of how diverse those women live. The history of black women in America has seen them as slaves, caretakers, washwomen, maids, teachers, nurses, businesswomen, ministers Black women were once thought of as the hard working nucleus of the black family. They were viewed as church going matriarchs, who suffered through worthless men, and in more cases than not, raising children on their own. They were thought to have had limited education, subjecting them to mostly low skill service oriented jobs working either in factories or for white families, where white women are perceive and beauty queens, very small and sleek, long hair and sexy.
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abagond im still waiting on the “why so few black women marry white men.” post, that should be easy. I can give you ten reasons right now because to be perfectly honest, true most wm don’t prefer bw, but I have been approached by non-bm and I have turned down men before, its not just white and non-bm who play the role…
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“to the booty-shaking “hood girls” of today’s music videos. ”
i really dont’ understand what is wrong with booty shaking…I see booty dancing/ shaking in soukous music all the time. I see west african dances where they use their booty to dance alot and it isn’t done in a vulgar way. It’s just a movement that takes alot of strength in the glutes to be able to move that way. As long as everything that needs to be covered is covered, why is it a bad thing? It’s just another form of dance movement, i dont’ see people getting all up in arms at belly/hip dancing that is characteristic in middle-eastern type dances? WHy is booty shaking getting a bad name? It’s only because hip hop has changed and manipulated booty shaking to make it appear sexually degrading. But i don’t see booty shaking as something inherently wrong. If you ever try to really booty dance, it actually takes a considerable amount of skill and works your thighs and glutes like hell. You gotta be super fit to do the real booty shaking…
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honestly i don’t really see anything wrong with this…
or this
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LOL
Peanut that’s a nice take on the booty shaking phenomenon, what with working glutes and thighs:)
You’re absolutely right.
There are some booty shaking traditional dances in Southern Africa that the West has adopted as something to be reviled. You’re right also that’s its a skill. Shaking the derriere is just part of the dance, not exclusively so, yet it’s baffling how in the West its reduced to shaking the butt and ONLY the butt.
I don’t even want to call our dances booty shaking because of the negative connotation it immediately conjures up in most people’s minds.
Until there’s respect and understanding of the origins of these dances, it will continue to be exploited and reduced to ridicule in hip hop videos.
For that we CANNOT blame white people.
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now compare those videos with Tip Drill by Nelly and sure booty dancing is going to get a bad rep…
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@peanut
I understand where your coming from with the whole traditional thing, but when you put a big booty girl in a video with her ass swallowing up a g-string it then becomes provocative, disgraceful, distasteful and down right nasty!! It has nothing to do with white people at all it has to do with the way some of us choose to portray ourselves!! Notice I said some because we all don’t do this!! We as black people need to do a lot of soul searching and we need to get ourselves together, because as a race we are falling apart!! I can tell you loads and loads of stories of what I see on a day to day basis but I would be here all night!! We just really need to get our acts together!! I can’t believe what I’m about to say but it’s the truth. If I was white and witnessed half of the things that us black people do on a daily basis, I too would laugh and stereotype!! I mean come on you leave them no choice when you act the way you act and do the things that you do!! I’ve witnessed inhumane behavior from some of our youth and it’s really sad!! Why would another human being want to set another human being on fire!! Yea I said it!! Just last week I witnessed a group of young black girls no older than 16 years of age trying to set a bum on fire!! I mean come on is that really necessary?!He wasn’t doing anything to them, so why bother him! This is what I am talking about. We need to really get our SHIT together and quick!!
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Black people do need to get their acts together, that goes without saying, I could just as easily say whites need to do the same. Some months back there was a news item in the UK where two white girls taunted and abused a black girl into jumping to her death. That is just as bad as the black girls setting fire to a tramp.
Peanut was making an example of an African tradition that has been distorted in the West. Of course such dances aren’t performed in g strings that as you put it, swallow up their bottoms. As most things African, its a celebration of culture that doesn’t do so to demean women. They are not being exploited like they are in the West.
I don’t watch African dances and imagine these women being objectfied, but I’m mortified when the rapper Nelly swipes his credit card on a black woman’s butt in his videos.
For that reason, yes blacks in the West really need to clean up their acts, they perpetuate the denigration of black women.
If you’re a little black boy in the US/UK who grows up on a daily diet of these videos you’d grow up to reduce women to that single part of their bodies.
Little black girls grow up to feel validated by the size of their butt and how many doors it supposedly opens.
Personally I really don’t understand the fascination with a woman’s bottom, period.
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“I understand where your coming from with the whole traditional thing, but when you put a big booty girl in a video with her ass swallowing up a g-string it then becomes provocative, disgraceful, distasteful and down right nasty!! It has nothing to do with white people at all it has to do with the way some of us choose to portray ourselves!!”
OKay, in response to the part about booty shaking. I did say as long as everything that needs to be covered is covered there is nothing wrong with it. Also I think the point I was trying to make was that booty shaking itself is not a bad thing, its the corruption of booty shaking in hip hop videos and by the white controlled media that has demonized and degraded booty dancing to being something bad inherently and its not.
It was the white media that started using the booty dancing as another way to degrade and demonize black women. The same way they used the fact that in some west african cultures the women walked around topless. There was nothing wrong with this, as I understand in some cultures breast were not sexualized as they were in european cultures. But the european colonizers took this to mean that african women were oversexed, when really it was just a simple cultural and climate difference. Ofcourse in tropical weather you’re going to be wearing less clothes, duh!
If you look back at movies from the 1940s that make bp into caricatures, such as “Coal Black and de sebben dwarves,” you’ll see a clip of the bw bending over in a short skirt, showing and wiggling her butt in a supposed sexualized way. Also note that the vulgar type of booty shaking didn’t really become popularized until the hip hop industry was invaded and taken over by non-black producers and companies. Before that you would see the dancing girls, but the point of the girls was to emphasize their beauty and sexuality in a positive way, not to degrade and insult the woman and uplift the man like today. The white media has always mocked and demonized things associated with african culture as a way to degrade blacks and booty shaking is no different to me. There is nothing wrong with it to me when done with class and a sense of history and I stand by that.
Also let’s not forget whites do have theirs issues too…Girls Gone Wild, the porn industry. Its not just blacks who have these kind of issues. It’s not….Just last week I witnessed a group of young black girls no older than 16 years of age trying to set a bum on fire!!
Also with this one…http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dvzj8wyZ9PI&feature=related
you’ll note the race of the male participants particularly in the beginning of the clip where they are showing actual footage of the REAL bum fights…so this is not a black issue.
we have to stop thinking that as a culture we do things that are inherently worse than whites and other cultures. We do not, we’re all human first and foremost and every culture has their issues. Our’s simply get pointed out the most because we are at a constant disadvantage because our cultures on a worldwide scale have been exploited and destroyed and wiped away. Sure we have problems as a culture, but I sure as hell don’t believe were any worse than any other culture. We just have our issues, they have theirs.
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Correction:
“Just last week I witnessed a group of young black girls no older than 16 years of age trying to set a bum on fire!!”
Also with this one…
you’ll note the race of the male participants particularly in the beginning of the clip where they are showing actual footage of the REAL bum fights…so this is not a black issue.
we have to stop thinking that as a culture we do things that are inherently worse than whites and other cultures. We do not, we’re all human first and foremost and every culture has their issues. Our’s simply get pointed out the most because we are at a constant disadvantage because our cultures on a worldwide scale have been exploited and destroyed and wiped away. Sure we have problems as a culture, but I sure as hell don’t believe were any worse than any other culture. We just have our issues, they have theirs.
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I will say this though, I do think even if the stereotypes were started by racist whites, it is too many black people who continue and uphold these racist notions. I believe this is mostly because some of us have forgotten or don’t care about our history as a people. So on that account, I do hold some blacks responsible for perpetuating and furthering the negative stereotypes. I remember in the early 90s they had women dancing and stuff, but the dancing was focused on just partying, having fun and enjoying being in the company of women in general. It wasn’t meant to demean the women. Now that has completely changed and if people understood their history better than maybe they would be less inclined to endorse and support these stereotypes which are really just rooted in racism. I can’t really listen to mainstream rap anymore as its just garbage to me now. However I do know that more whites consume the hip hop than blacks, but we need to just full out boycott and stuff playing this nasty music in the club, on our radios etc. as its so damaging
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This is exactly why I do NOT like posting on these boards because MY words are always getting taken out of content and in the end I always feel as if I’m getting attacked!!. So to clear things up, I Never said that “white people” were perfect or didn’t have “issues” because we all know they do!! Nobody is perfect including me!! But when I see what I saw last week it really bothers me!! That was disgraceful it really was!! The generation of today I really don’t know what to say, their Terrible!!! I’m like where is your home training?????!!!!! I’m tired of seeing this. And yes I see more young black kids doing this than white that’s why I said what I said!! I never said that white kids didn’t behave as such and frankly I don’t give a damn!! I’m worrying about the young black kids out here because it makes us look BAD!!Trust and believe I will NEVER deny being black or where I come from because this is me, my culture and I LOVE ME!! So don’t be so quick to judge me or put me down for what I said. No body’s putting white people on a peddle stood!!!
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And I’m not going to attack white supremacy I’ll rather let GOD deal with that!!! Have a nice night!!!
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“Black people do need to get their acts together, that goes without saying, I could just as easily say whites need to do the same. Some months back there was a news item in the UK where two white girls taunted and abused a black girl into jumping to her death. That is just as bad as the black girls setting fire to a tramp.”
Merrimay, please get your facts right before you post a comment.
The two girls were not both white, one of them was (not “white” as in british white, i think she was either middle eastern or something else), the other one was Black.
The violence in the UK by black youths is getting worse.
I lived there for two years and now i am back in my native country.
What I have seen would shock you.
The language that is used in public by young british black girls is so vile and disgusting I can’t repeat it here.
They way these young girls and boys speak to eachother is horrible! Imagine raising your children around these kids.
There are kids out there, white and black, who are scared to death to go to school because of other KIDS! How crazy is that? The UK is getting worse and worse by the minute.
The way christians are treated is disgusting, hell the way non muslims are treated is disgusting.
Let’s just say I am glad to be home.
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oh, and for the people who keep saying black women were raped by white men, that was not always the case.
If say, a black woman and a white man fell in love , he had to keep her as a slave to protect her and their future children.
It was the only way they could be together!
Also, black women slaves were raped by black male slaves too, but you never hear about that do you? There is a reason for that.
Even today, black women are more likely to be raped by a black man than a non black man.
Please note, I am not trying to make it seem like slave owners never raped black girls and women, I am trying to highlight the other side of the story as well.
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Did I hear someone say “booty dancing”…?
Folks, meet Watermelon Woman, last year’s sensation on Brazilian T.V., especially with the 10-18 set…
http://video75.com/Lxmi4MAiWUH/mulher-melancia-no-super-pop-/
This was all over prime-time Brazilian T.V. faster than you can say “read my lips”.
But we are very concerned with the negative stereotyping of Brazilian sexuality that’s occuring out there in the world these days… [roll eyes].
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Ok I stand corrected, as I’ve said I don’t live in the black community, I only encounter that sort of behaviour when I go into the city. I guess you lived in a part of town that exposed you to that calibre of people, that’s so sad to hear!
There are many parts of London I’ve deemed no-go zones for that reason, sadly those are usually heavily populated by violent black youths : (
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MerriMay,
I do not and have never lived in ‘the black community’, I take it you mean an area/neighbourhood where there are more black people than white and/or others.
When I lived in London, I lived in Chelsea, so you can imagine…there were zero black people living there and it’s a very uper class area.
It was when I went out I encountered black people and that was mainly in Central London where people of all classes and ethnicities frequent, and it was when I used public transportation I saw school kids, black girls and boys use the most disgusting language to refer to one another and speak to eachother.
There are definit no zones, but Central London is somewhere you have to go if you want things done, it’s not even a “zone” really because central London has a mix of all sorts of people hence why sometimes (not everyday) you see these type of behaviours.
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“on Sat 2 May 2009 at 07:07:03 abagond
How I make sense of it: Why would a white man put up with the pain and trouble of an interracial relationship for a bad imitation of a white woman when he can easily have the real thing? That is why light-skinned women appeal mainly to black men, not white men.
”
geez, I take offense.
I’m a light skinned black girl with “white features” and I don’t see how I am a “bad imitation of a white woman?”
I don’t like how people refer to black women who look like your beyonce or your vanessa williams as “white women with a tan” or “white girl dipped in milk chocolat”.
I am not attracted to black men, and I have had no problem attracting men, including black, from all types of ehtnicities, asian,white,latino, name them and I have had them hit on me atleast once.
Yes, i’m modest.
Could it actually be that white men like the woman? nooo, it has to be because he is too scared to go “too dark” so he settles with a light skinned girl.
it’s like i said before, have you ever toyed with the idea that maybe most men prefer the “Inbetween” look which is “”Light skinned black girl” or biracial girl…?
Think about it.
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I am not saying that light-skinned women are imitation white women. They are not. Instead I am trying to make sense of why those white men who go out with black women do not tend to go for whiter-looking black women, which is what I would have expected.
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“Could it actually be that white men like the woman? nooo, it has to be because he is too scared to go “too dark” so he settles with a light skinned girl.
it’s like i said before, have you ever toyed with the idea that maybe most men prefer the “Inbetween” look which is “”Light skinned black girl” or biracial girl…?”
I don’t think the mixed look is inherently more attractive, but it definitely seems to be the flavor of moment.
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Charlette, I’m not attacking you or accusing you of putting white people on a pedestal. I was merely giving a response to your statements. I still have yet to see a black kid in a bum fight, most of the time when it does happen, its not a black kid in my experience. This is not to say black kids don’t do it or that its just a white thing. I am merely saying please don’t put that on black kids because its an ignorant thing no matter who does it and it certainly has nothing to do with color. you weren’t being attacked at all.
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L
Well Chelsea isn’t exactly insulated from the bad elements of London, in fact it’s smack dab in the middle of it, what with council estates surrounding it and whatnot.
I live in a suburb of SW London, like yours its upper middle class, the surrounding suburbs very similar. Think Kew, Richmond, Barnes.
While I admit that there are loads of black youths that give us all a bad name, and I’m guilty of thinking the worst of them, their behaviour is hardly the preserve of blacks. Perhaps you notice them more because you are of the same race. I do agree with you that the language they use would ping your ears back. White youths are guilty of exactly the same kind of intimidating behaviour.
We have to be careful not to portray all black kids in London as ‘yobs’ as they’re called in London.
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“oh, and for the people who keep saying black women were raped by white men, that was not always the case.
If say, a black woman and a white man fell in love , he had to keep her as a slave to protect her and their future children.
It was the only way they could be together!”
True, true. This is what my dad says. He seems to think we are descended from these types of relationships. I could be wrong, but I suspect this is what the affair between Thomas Jefferson and Sally Hemings was like.
“Also, black women slaves were raped by black male slaves too, but you never hear about that do you? There is a reason for that.
Even today, black women are more likely to be raped by a black man than a non black man.”
Almost all rape occurs within racial groups.
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L,
You went on a tangent earlier when I commented that it is white men who are not neccessarily interested in black women who tend to respond to a whiter-looking black female while the white men who do have display geniune interest tend to go for more traditionally black women. It is the truth. Of course, there are exceptions but this is how it goes for the most part.
Obviously, as a black woman who fits the stereotypical “mulatto” phenotype per your self-description, who has deep interest in white men, I can see how you can take that truth as a personal slam. It’s not. You may very well be one of the exceptions.
No, the stereotype “mulatto” look is inherently more attractive. Those who find that look to be more attractive or superior to a more traditional black one, do so for their own personal ideas on the concepts of “blackness” (and “whiteness”). You can go to the TJ Holmes post, where we had a pretty insightful conversation on that topic–what the western version of black colorism is REALLY all about.
Your comments seem to infer that you have some issues with being black. (Suggesting that a white-infused black look is superior to a plainly black one- the one 90% of blacks have; saying that you are not attracted to men of your race- the race your father and male relatives are.) Not that it makes you a bad person but it is troubling. Living in an anti-black work can sometimes cause some of us to assimilate these ideas and turn them against ourselves.
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Also,
If white men love the “mulatto” look so much, why don’t they procrate with black women more so that they can “give birth” to the look that they supposedly find to be so beautiful! LOL.
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L said:
“oh, and for the people who keep saying black women were raped by white men, that was not always the case.
If say, a black woman and a white man fell in love , he had to keep her as a slave to protect her and their future children.
It was the only way they could be together!”
Bollocks! White men rarely “loved” Black women during american slavery! It was nothing more than “booty call” for the white man to say the least!
L said:
“Also, black women slaves were raped by black male slaves too, but you never hear about that do you? There is a reason for that.”
Yeah the reason is simple! Rape can happen anywhere and at anytime! Complete and utter strawman!
L said:
“Even today, black women are more likely to be raped by a black man than a non black man.”
Tell me what else is new!
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MNIMN said:
”Your comments seem to infer that you have some issues with being black. (Suggesting that a white-infused black look is superior to a plainly black one- the one 90% of blacks have; saying that you are not attracted to men of your race- the race your father and male relatives are.) Not that it makes you a bad person but it is troubling. Living in an anti-black work can sometimes cause some of us to assimilate these ideas and turn them against ourselves.”
I second that!
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Is it that bad to be black? Why are you so obsessed with your skin color? It’s like some black people (mostly the ones on this blog) are ashamed to be black because how they think everyone views them. You guys sound like a bunch of cry babies. Oh I’m black, people hate me, I can’t get a good job, I don’t have the same opportunities. That’s crap. Where I grew up my high school was 70% black. No one hated them and they didn’t hate anyone else. They made something of themselves and they are all doing well. I love them. Now they could have spent their lives crying about being black but they didn’t. They became successful.
I think this is a controversial blog anyway for controversy’s sake. Just post a bunch of controversial topics and people will flood the site and comment and make this a popular blog. Yeah but popular for the wrong reason. This blog is dividing whites and blacks.
Unity by any means necessary!
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lol, wow…
I actually didn’t expect personal attacks on this blog, maybe on other blogs, but this one seemed above that.
Oh well.
I have no problem with my skin colour or being black.
I am not african american, i’m from east africa, the horn of africa, and we tend to be very proud as people.
I live in europe, and was born and raised here as well.
Is the whole attacking people for having a preference outside their “race” a defense mechanism among black americans?
My preference is understandable having been born and raised in an area where me and my family are the only black people, there is no other black people for me to have a relationship with, be it friends or more.
I do not hate black men for gods sake, what is this? I feel like the level here is so low that i cannot possibly take it seriously.
I have a father who has been married to my mother forever, he is black, so is my mother.
He is dark skinned, my mom is light.
Like I said, I have had no problem attracting men of all types.
I do not understand what the problem is, if a person who is not black favours the lighter black girl, why does that have to mean he generally has a preference for white women? What I have noticed is that the guys that usually approach me who are white have a preference for attractive women.
“Race” doesn’t matter as long as she is attractive to him.
is that so unusual?
beauty trumps race? no?
This really does seem like an american thing.
The land where black militants preach black power with the whitest blondest most aryan wife standing beside them lol
Look, I am unapologetic about my preference.
You can’t shame me into thinking there is something wrong with me, let me just get that clear and out of the way.
I don’t excuse it, and/or try to trash black men while having it.
I like white men.
Do I hate myself? No. Can I not see beauty in other races of men? Of course i can, i’m not blind.
I just have a preference, like every other human being on this planet, but some how if a black woman dares have a preference that is not black men, automatically something is wrong with her.
“Well Chelsea isn’t exactly insulated from the bad elements of London, in fact it’s smack dab in the middle of it, what with council estates surrounding it and whatnot.”
yes, i am aware of that, but there is 24 hours police service in that area, much like in holland park,and it’s safer than alot of other places as you may know yourself.
And council places are everywhere in London, you can’t escape it.
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And one more thing, I never said that the “mulatto” look is more attractive, all I said is that it seems like that ‘look’ is popular among many men of all “races”, and if it is something that men prefer, why is that so wrong? And would you say the same if i said the same thing about dark skinned black women with stereotypical “black features”?
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it’s like some black people (mostly the ones on this blog) are ashamed to be black because how they think everyone views them. You guys sound like a bunch of cry babies. Oh I’m black, people hate me, I can’t get a good job, I don’t have the same opportunities.
What they are commenting on is the racism pervasive in American society for the most part. This can manifest in many ways such as jobs, housing, and society in general. This blog provides one way of discussing racism.
Where I grew up my high school was 70% black. No one hated them and they didn’t hate anyone else. They made something of themselves and they are all doing well. I love them. Now they could have spent their lives crying about being black but they didn’t. They became successful.
Bully for you and your friends.
I think this is a controversial blog anyway for controversy’s sake. Just post a bunch of controversial topics and people will flood the site and comment and make this a popular blog. Yeah but popular for the wrong reason. This blog is dividing whites and blacks.
People can choose to comment or not comment. If people choose to comment, what’s it to you?
Black inferiority is your problem but instead you point the finger at white people and other black people to make it seem like whites are hateful and that if a black person is intelligent you say they are trying to be white.
To characterize it as such, you obviously have a problem with ‘black inferiority’. You have skewed the meaning of this blog. I reiterate, people can choose to respond or not. Not everyone is going to respond in a way you would like. If people are not interested in a particular post they ignore it. If they are, they respond. If they wish to rebut what someone writes, they do so. Of course this blog will elicit myriad responses. What it boils down to is whether or not people choose to respond to a post or not. No one is forcing them to. If you want to see some real ‘controversial ‘topics’ go to Stormfront or some other nationalist blog. To characterize this as controversial and divisive, reveals more about yourself than the topics themselves.
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Right, I got you there Mr. Rogerian.
No one is forcing you to comment here either.
All I’m saying is that if you give something power then it will have power over you.
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“Is it that bad to be black? Why are you so obsessed with your skin color? It’s like some black people (mostly the ones on this blog) are ashamed to be black because how they think everyone views them. You guys sound like a bunch of cry babies. Oh I’m black, people hate me, I can’t get a good job, I don’t have the same opportunities. That’s crap. Where I grew up my high school was 70% black. No one hated them and they didn’t hate anyone else. They made something of themselves and they are all doing well. I love them. Now they could have spent their lives crying about being black but they didn’t. They became successful. “
Well, many whites (not you) do have quite negative conceptions of blacks. Furthermore, blacks’ awareness and internalization of those attitudes can inhibit their success.
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I agree, Frustrated Guy.
L,
No one is attacking you. I don’t know you (and you don’t know me) to attack. You made some statements which seemed to reveal a particular mindset. In my opinion, your comments seem to indicate that you have some personal race issues. But then again, who in the western world doesn’t?
You didn’t answer the question, either. If men all over the world are so enthused about the stereotypical “mulatto” look, why aren’t more of them procreating with black women to spawn the look that according to you, we all prefer??? LOL.
Also, it doesn’t matter if you’re black American, Eriterian, Jamaican, or anything else. Black is black. Your comments just display that black people from anywhere in the world can suffer from a racial inferority complex.
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Most people marry within their own racial groups so this talk of interracial marriage is overhyped. If blacks and whites married at a rate where the biracials were outnumbering both blacks and whites then blacks and whites would be worried because no race of people want to be wiped out.
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Damn! Howard Zinn is dead.
😦 😦 😦 😦
😦 😦 😦
😦 😦
😦
Here’s an example of a white guy who loved black women in all the right ways.
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I know! I just found out he died on Jack & Jill Politics. He was one of the sources for the history of Haiti post.
I was not aware that he loved black women, much less in all the right ways. What do you mean?
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mynameismyname: You didn’t answer the question, either. If men all over the world are so enthused about the stereotypical “mulatto” look, why aren’t more of them procreating with black women to spawn the look that according to you, we all prefer??? LOL.
You do this alot, you pretend to be dense when people are perfectly clear on what they are saying. It is truly annoying. If men prefer the “mulatto” look, they aren’t sleeping with Black women because Black women are not “mulatto”. Using your logic, since people seem to love beefburgers, we should all go out and buy our own cows, since it takes cows to make beefburgers.
Not saying that I agree with the premise of men preferring mulatto’s or I agree with everything L says, but don’t be an intellectual coward and mask your disagreement with her position by using spurious logic. Between that, the pseudo-psychological profiling, and the guilting and shaming (the “male relatives” card) reveal your own issues.
BTW, of all of the laughable guilting and shaming tactics, who the hell came up with the notion that people should be attracted to people who look like their family? If I met a girl that looks like my mom or sister, I would run away. Not because I think my mom or sister is ugly or I have “self-hate”, I just find the idea of having sex with either of them ultra-creepy.
Being pro-black and for black-on-black love is great. However, people who are of that mindset should probably spend more time worrying about the Blacks who are for it and less about the ones who aren’t. Like I said in another thread (and of course you went into your typical dense continental mode) people tend to scapegoat IR’s and it’s participants because it is easier than dealing with current reality of the state of Black on Black love, which is not doing so hot.
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I do think not being attracted to people of your own race is a clear sign something is wrong.
Unless you were raised by people of a different race and live in a place/country where you’re the only member of your race- or something like that- it’s not “normal” to react this way. Ok, “normal” might be a bit strong word here, but I do think there’s a problem if you are not attracted to people of your own race.
So, it’s not really that you should be attracted to women who look like your mother, but you should be able to be attracted to people of her- and your- race.
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L
And one more thing, I never said that the “mulatto” look is more attractive, all I said is that it seems like that ‘look’ is popular among many men of all “races”, and if it is something that men prefer, why is that so wrong? And would you say the same if i said the same thing about dark skinned black women with stereotypical “black features”?
The “Mulatto” look is NOT popular among many men of ALL races.
It may be popular with most African American men in the US but I have yet to see MANY Asian, Latino, Middle eastern, or White men with women who look biracial.
Most White men I see are with White women or Asians. The few white men who are with Black women are with ones with stereotypical “black features”.
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^^^
I agree.
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So, why is that? Is it because white people who like black women have strong preference for really dark skin, or is it because those women seem more “exotic” to them?
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Leaveumthinking,
Exactly! Although, a lot of Latino men would be with “mulatto”-looking women because many Latin Americans are indeed “mulatto.
Mira,
Re-read the comments in the TJ Holmes post, “dark skin” women are perceived as “real black women” opposed to the minority of black women are may be lighter. They’re seen as “visibly mixed”. If I’m white and want to date a black woman, wouldn’t I want to date what I perceive as the “real thing”? What’s the point of dating someone who I think of as “part white”, when I could easily get a woman of my own race?
Also, “dark skinned” black women are far more common than “lighter skinned” ones. So, proxomity plays a part.
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Zinn was a tenured professor at Spelman College from 1956 to 1963. He was, in fact, one of Alice Walker’s professors and she rated him one of the best teachers she ever had.
Zinn supported the students of Spelman during the civil rights struggle – a white guy doing this in Atlanta in 1963. He got into trouble with the college administration who told him that it was the school’s job to form “young ladies” and not radicals. Zinn responded that it was Spelman students place to be in the streets fighting for the end of segregation and nothing could be more ladylike. So the university canned him. He lost his tenure because of his support for the radical women of Spelman against their college administrators’ disapproval of their involvement with civil rights.
A fact that I’m sure Spelman College doesn’t bandy about much these days…
Wonder if they’ll do something in his memory? I very much doubt it.
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If I’m white and want to date a black woman, wouldn’t I want to date what I perceive as the “real thing”? What’s the point of dating someone who I think of as “part white”, when I could easily get a woman of my own race?
But does it mean that (white) people make a conscious decision to date black women, so they seek ones who are “authentic”? It seems really… wrong. Like I said, I think those who avoid people of their own race have a problem.
I’m all for interracial dating, but people should remember they’re dating a person, not a race. Isn’t it healthier to choose based on someone’s personality, not their race?
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Abagond sez…
I am not saying that light-skinned women are imitation white women. They are not. Instead I am trying to make sense of why those white men who go out with black women do not tend to go for whiter-looking black women, which is what I would have expected.
Well, I married Ana because, quite simply, she’s the best person I’ve ever met. Also, in spite of our color, gender and birthplace differences, she’s probably the woman I’ve met who’s most like me in terms of humor, point of view and ethics. We both had single-parent teacher moms who drove us through school with a burning desire to go on to university. We both come from working-class families where self-education has always been important. Hell, even Ana’s grandad and mine did the same job during WWII: both were mechanics for their respective country’s navys.
I’ve never met someone, of any color, who’s clicked with me as well as Ana does.
Margaret Mead once remarked that “married people are the only ones who can finish their conversations”. Ana always has something worthwhile to say and to listen to. That is beyond value in my book.
My one complaint is that, while she speaks English, she is so self-conscious of her accent that she rarely tries. And she certainly doesn’t write in English, so I end up putting her words down on paper most of the time when we use that language. Of course, she corrects my written Portuguese, as well.
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Mira,
IR romance isn’t as common in the US as many on this blog proclaim it to be. So, none of us have any real clue of the “real” intentions of any individual who is involved in such a relationship.
Because of the loaded history of blacks and whites, relationships that involve members of both “races” are extremely controversial. Hence the amount of comments for blog topics like this one.
Yes, “darker skin”, “traditionally black”…whatever we want to call it, are generally seen as more “authentic”. This line of thought comes from the fact that black women who are seen as such are predominate and on ideas of what black people are “supposed” to look like.
You’re so right, people should just see people as people. But in the U.S., our society is structured mainly on race, so race has no choice but to influence our every aspect of life. Including who we let into our lives.
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Well, I am not really into “purple people” philosophy, nor I think colour blindness is a good thing. I was just trying to state the (hopefully) obvious: going for people just because of their race- especially if it’s different than your own- is a bad, almost unhealthy thing to do. People should be forbidden to date anybody before they learn to see people as individuals. Yes, it is about race, but then again, it’s not just about race. There are still some men, for example, who still don’t see women as individuals.
I knew there weren’t that many interracial couples in America, but I didn’t know it was such a controversial issue.
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Thaddeus said:
“Also, in spite of our color, gender and birthplace differences, she’s probably the woman I’ve met who’s most like me in terms of humor, point of view and ethics. …
I’ve never met someone, of any color, who’s clicked with me as well as Ana does.
Margaret Mead once remarked that “married people are the only ones who can finish their conversations”. Ana always has something worthwhile to say and to listen to. That is beyond value in my book.”
That reminds me of a guest post that Black&German wrote about the sort of white men who like black women:
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Thaddeus:
I did not know that about Zinn and Spelman. How ironic. In hindsight he was right, though somehow I am not surprised by Spelman.
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mynameismyname, I did not answer your question because it is so incredibly dumb that it is impossible to answer seriously.
I recognized your shame tactic and realized replying to you would be wasting my time.
Like i said, I do find men of other races attractive, BUT, I have a preference for white men.
That doesn’t mean I can’t see myself in a relationship with, for example, a black man.
Now, I want to know why that is so “wrong”.
Every other human being has a preference, why can’t I as a black woman have one without being self hating or there being something wrong with me.
Just like some men find dark skinned beautiful black women attractive, why can’t I find light skinned handsome white men attractive, and have a preference for that ‘look’?
There really seem to be a double standard when it comes to this.
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I said if (if being the key word here) men did find the ‘inbetween’ look more appealing, why is that wrong?
that ‘look’ can be the “mulatto” look or the white womans angelina jolie ‘look’, or the half asian half white look.
If people have a preference for that look, that racially ambiguous look, why is that so wrong?
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I can only speak for myself, but I must admit I do find “racially ambiguous look” attractive. The stereotype I want to get rid of is the one about “attractive mixed people”. But, as far as I know, many people (at least female people- and at least female people I know) like the “inbetween” look.
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“You can always tell a Spelman girl — she’s under arrest.”
Zinn’s 1960 article about Spelman girls and their civil rights struggle (“Finishing School for Pickets”) can be read, in it’s entirety, here:
http://www.thenation.com/doc/19600806/zinn
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Is it me, or does “I’m White” get you the creeps. His comments reminds me of white men lurking around for some black woman. This may be what turns some black women off against dating white.
Didn’t know that this was a dating site.
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Sorry, meant “give” you the creeps.
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Mira,
I’m all for interracial dating, but people should remember they’re dating a person, not a race. Isn’t it healthier to choose based on someone’s personality, not their race?
Absolutely. And my current theory is white men who “date black women” are the ones who only go for the darker skin women. White men who date women regardless of race don’t seem to have this fixation with color. None of the white men I’ve dated have been that type, thankfully. I’d rather someone be interested in me as a person instead of my perceived race. We don’t have relationships/marriages to make social statements, they are personal matters.
Thaddeus,
Well, I married Ana because, quite simply, she’s the best person I’ve ever met. Also, in spite of our color, gender and birthplace differences, she’s probably the woman I’ve met who’s most like me in terms of humor, point of view and ethics.
My SO would cite similar reasons for being with me.
abagond,
That reminds me of a guest post that Black&German wrote about the sort of white men who like black women:
https://abagond.wordpress.com/2009/10/07/white-men-that-like-black-women/
I still need to respond to that post. I think my SO fits the description in some ways, but not at all in other ways. For instance, he has “swag.” 😀
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“None of the white men I’ve dated have been that type, thankfully.”
Should be the “date black women” type.
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I think every black woman/girl wants a man to like her for her, and not for her skin colour.
I don’t like those white men who fetishes black skin, and call a black woman “queen” and things like that.
I do not have a fetish for white men, I have a preference, but that doesn’t mean I find every white man attractive – which is something I have found with some white men, they see a black woman, say dark skinned, and do not care for her as a person, and would trade her with the next black woman with dark skin because they see her as an object instead of a person.
Much like those white men who go for asian women, they replace them with the next asian woman if she doesn’t fit the bill, as long as she is asian, and that is called a fetish.
I don’t like how some people say that white men like that male singer who is with paula patton or halle berrys boyfriend, who are with light skinned woman only are with them because they are too scared to go “too dark” and usually go for white women.
That’s like me saying, those white men who are with dark skinned black women, only are with them because of a fetish for their skin and their stereotypical black features.
See?
it’s not good to stereotype and assume.
I go for men who see women as women, no matter what their colour is, and i do the same, I don’t go for any white man because that is sick, and i don’t have a fetish for white skin.
I like men with good hearts and great personalitites, the outside only matters so much.
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I think many light skinned black girls, including myself, are tired of the stereotype that light skinned girls only like black men.
I have had black men assume because I am light skinned I will automatically like them, and I have had white men assume I won’t like them because they think I only find black men attractive.
It’s really frustrating to be in this position because it’s such an ingrained stereotype that people won’t think twice about it, and assume i must only like black men.
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L said:
“I think many light skinned black girls, including myself, are tired of the stereotype that light skinned girls only like black men.
I have had black men assume because I am light skinned I will automatically like them, and I have had white men assume I won’t like them because they think I only find black men attractive.
It’s really frustrating to be in this position because it’s such an ingrained stereotype that people won’t think twice about it, and assume i must only like black men.”
Karma is a b**** huh!?
Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha !
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L,
I think many light skinned black girls, including myself, are tired of the stereotype that light skinned girls only like black men.
I’ve never heard of this stereotype. Where does it come from? And how exactly are we defining “light-skinned?” I’ve heard of biracial black/white females having a preference for black men, but not light-skinned women.
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I’m glad that more and more BW are starting to see the light.
Time to dump the DBR’s and move it along.
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Do black people live and work peacefully in Serbia?
No, they don’t. Black people don’t live in Serbia. There aren’t black people here. I never met one- and that’s not because I live in a specific part of country or city, or because I refuse to socialize with black people. You can go on for several months (or years even- depends on time and place) without seeing any black people on the street. There are only a few- and I mean a few- black people here, mostly foreigners (people from embassies of African countries, a few football players), but that’s all. There are also a few mixed people born in Serbia, but only a few. And when I say a few, I really mean a few (there a re two journalists I know of because they appar on TV).
These people are mixed because they are children of Serbian women and African men who came here back in 70s and 80s, in “Movement of Non-Aligned Countries” time, as students. The Movement of Non-Aligned Countries was really important to us, because it gave strength to Yugoslavia and other “non-aligneds” to balance between east and west. In those days, many- well, relatively many, African people came to live in Yugoslavia, first as students, and later they got jobs here and got married. Their children are born and raised here and are practically the only mixed people living in Serbia (and other former Yugoslavian republics). Their parents didn’t seem to face discrimination you might, perhaps, expect. If nothing else, political climate made it look bad to speak badly about members of other non-aligned countries, because they were our allies against evils of east and west.
(Ivon Jafali (journalist) is one of those mixed people.
http://www.studio-b.co.yu/tv/tvlica.php?lice=12)
Well, it didn’t work well for Yugoslavia, but it doesn’t change the fact movement of non-aligned countries is seen as a positive thing. If nothing else, in average people’s mind black person is remembered as a student from an ally country (therefore, educated) and not as a violent and lazy ghetto person (or whatever is the main stereotype about black people in America).
I am not saying there’s no racism. There is. But it’s not one of the main problems here (nationalism, religious intolerance, xenophobia, that sort of things). Like I said, black people don’t live here, so average person don’t think about blacks. There is racism here, I guess, but it’s a racism of a different kind. For example, since most of the people never met a black person, they tend to be curious. They don’t think of you as inferior, but they might stare at you because it’s the first time they see a black person on the street, for example.
Interracial marriages are not an issue. Because there are no other races here. There’s a potential problem if someone wants to marry a person of a different religion or nationality (but not as frequent as you might think, given recent Balkan history), but not because someone is black.
I am not saying we are free of racism here, but since there are no blacks around, many people don’t even think about them- which means there are less stereotypes.
Of course, there are people who hate everybody who’s is “different”, but those people are general haters. Those are individuals who hate all people of different nationality, religion, sexual orientation, political beliefs or race. It’s like a package- all or noting. It’s really rare, even impossible, to find someone who is racist, but is otherwise open to people of different religions, nationalities or sexual orientation. So while those people exist in larger number than I’d like to think it’s ok (to me, ok number of them is zero), name “racists” don’t describe them well, because they oppose to everybody who is different than them.
Sorry for the long reply.
PS-I do think those mixed people date white people here, because otherwise they wouldn’t date anybody.
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“Light skinned black women” are stereotyped as only liking black men?
Wow, that’s the first time I’ve ever heard that.
I’m not sure about you guys but from my experiences “black/white biracial” and supposed “light skinned black women” are seen the same.
Preferences are preferences but because we live in a very unfair world that privileges certain physical attributes and deintergrates others, prejudice informs certain ideas of what we’re attracted to. Whether some of us want to admit it or not.
Having a race or skin color preference is not inherent, it’s a SOCIAL preference. One that is shaped by our ideas and concepts of society.
L,
So do you think that white men are the answer for black women who have had problems with black men? How do you think white men are different from black men? Does someone’s race inform their individual character? These aren’t “guilt tactics” (I find it very telling that you used this term) or “mind games”, I’m honestly curious.
There seems to be a sense of pride when you talk about your white mate and when you talk about all the white male attention you claim to get. Why? Would you have that same pride if these men were black?
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I’m not sure about you guys but from my experiences “black/white biracial” and supposed “light skinned black women” are seen the same.
I don’t understand this. I am “darkskinned” like my father, but my mother is what people would call “lightskinned”. My mom has two black parents so how is she the same as someone with a white parent? Just another way to separate mother from daughter I guess.
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mynameismyname,
How do you think white men are different from black men? Does someone’s race inform their individual character?
They aren’t — they must be trained just like any other man. 🙂
I kid, I kid.
But what is everyone referring to with “light-skinned?” Are we speaking of a Beyonce or Lauren London? Or an Alicia Keys or Faith Evans?
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“I don’t understand this. I am “darkskinned” like my father, but my mother is what people would call “lightskinned”. My mom has two black parents so how is she the same as someone with a white parent? Just another way to separate mother from daughter I guess.”
You know what he means, I refuse to belive anyone is that thick.
How is one to know if one is biracial or not by just looking at them?
I have been mistaken for being biracial because i am light skinned, but i am not, both my parents are black.
mynameismyname,
Did I ever say that?
If you got that impression then that is your problem.
Did i not state that I also have black men (even more so than white men) approach me?
Did I not say I can also see myself in a serious relationship with a black man?
Did i not say ‘looks’ are only so important?
DBR (damage beyond repair) come in all types, from black to white, to everything and everything inbetween.
I have a preference for white men, but that doesn’t mean I can’t find other men attractive and/or see myself in a relationship with them.
I use the term “shame tactics” because I see it for what it is.
Remember, I am not an african american woman, those shame tactics might work on the “Black love” type black american women, but not with me.
I think black AMERICAN women should widen their dating pool, yes. Why not? Seeing how many black men are dating “Out” , and the 70% of AA women being single.
What, do you have a better suggestion? Should they wait for their “black prince”, perhaps?
That will be a long wait, sorry, but that is the truth, and you know it.
it’s time for AA women to wake up, seriously.
If that means dating someone outside your “race” then so be it.
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“Light skinned black women” are stereotyped as only liking black men?
I’m with you, mynameismyname; I’ve never heard this either. Nor do I subscribe to it.
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Natasha,
Each person has their own idea of what is “light skinned”. Celebrities don’t make for the best examples though. Most don’t look the same in person as they do in their publicity photos and on television. For instance, Beyonce is nearly as pale as Alicia/Faith in real life. I didn’t think so either until I saw early pictures of Destiny’s Child from someone I know who grew up with them in Houston, TX. The girl is pale!!! Lauren London is lighter in person than on television as well but not a “pale face” like the other three you named. She’s also not as cute, in person. Very average.
Wow, I really diverted…LOL. Sorry.
You’re right….a man is going to be a man. It doesn’t matter what race they are. The complaints that white women have about the men in their life is almost identical to the complaints that non-white women have about the men in their life. Don’t believe me? Ask a white woman, a black woman, an East Asian woman, etc. if their husband/boyfriend leaves the toilet seat up? You know dang ol’ well they all are going to have the same answer! LOL!
So, when I hear women like “L” go on about white men being the solution to black women who feel slighted by a black man, I’m puzzled. What makes you think a white or non-black man is going to be so amazingly different?! Racial stereotypes, that’s what!
“L” seems to feel that she’s superior to black American women. If not, then why do she keep differentiating herself from them by informing us that she’s not “one of them”? It doesn’t matter if you’re from Alabama, Trinidad, Cuba or Somalia, black is black! Your blatant self-hate just goes to show that internalized racism occurs amongst blacks all over the world, unfortunately.
70% of black women are single? How can you prove so? How could a study like that actually be conducted? Door to door? By phone? A sample group? A fill-out survey? I’m confused.
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Leaveumthinking,
I’m saying! That’s how people think. Essentially people see “black/white biracials” and “light skinned blacks” as one in the same. Except one has a white parent. Like I said in the TJ Holmes post, when most see a black who they think of as “light”, they think “mixed”. Hence, why people like to pick apart a Beyonce’s racial lineage and not a Don Cheadle’s. Even though Cheadle’s fair amount of European heritiage is documented.
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You know what he means, I refuse to belive anyone is that thick.
How is one to know if one is biracial or not by just looking at them?
I have been mistaken for being biracial because i am light skinned, but i am not, both my parents are black.
Yes I know what he means. I just dont understand why biracial women and light skin black women are veiwed as the same when one have two black parents and one do not. And no I am not thick. The people who assume someone is biracial simply for having light skin are the ones who are thick. People who mistaken you for being biracial are ignorant to assume that ALL biracial people have a certain look.
Remember, I am not an african american woman, those shame tactics might work on the “Black love” type black american women, but not with me.
Please do not put all African American women in the same box. Shame tactics do not work with us either. I am for black love without it I would not exist. At the same time I’m for all love as long as it is based on love and not self hate.
70% of AA women being single.
Sometimes I wonder where do all these “single can’t find a man” black women live. All of the black women I know are in relationships most are with quality black men. The ones who are single are not ready for marriage and choose to be single. I have never had difficulties finding good men who were interested in serious relationships.
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mynameismyname,
I know what is meant by “light-skinned” depends on who you are asking. What I want to know is what L and yourself are referring to by the term. Then I can move on to working out the stereotype L mentioned above.
Hmmm… I don’t believe for one minute Beyonce was born as pale as she is now. She used to be a more golden color/caramel color, way back when. She also has a very “faded” complexion that is reminiscent of one that has undergone skin whitening. If you watch her evolution over time, she has gotten whiter and whiter, not just in color, but in features as well. I don’t think [white] people would be claiming she is mixed if she looked like she did before.
Playing devil’s advocate — how does culture influence people/mens’ behavior? If culture affects behavior, then L’s “thoughts” may have some basis.
Maybe L is differentiating herself from black American women due to her separate history/upbringing? Many black American women feel they must “stick to their own” due to the history and struggle of black Americans in the US. They will not date white men out of principle. Add on the covert or overt discouragment of friends and family members from dating outside of the race… So maybe she feels your “shame tactics” or any such pressures do not affect her or apply to her because she is not American. Just maybe. I don’t know. She might agree or disagree with that sentiment.
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“Preferences are preferences but because we live in a very unfair world that privileges certain physical attributes and deintergrates others, prejudice informs certain ideas of what we’re attracted to. Whether some of us want to admit it or not.
Having a race or skin color preference is not inherent, it’s a SOCIAL preference. One that is shaped by our ideas and concepts of society.”
Europeanness still counts for something on the dating market. However, there are many other considerations when choosing a mate. One of the most important of these is weight. A substantial proportion of American women of all races, including white, are grossly overweight. I think most reasonable guys would prefer a “darkskin” girl who is in shape over a “lightskin” or white one who is obese. Elegance matters as well. Thus, though many still attach bonus points to whiteness, this is far from the only or most important factor.
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Mnimn,
I am from Houston,Texas and yes Beyonce ,while she is pretty, she looks like every other pretty girl you see on the street nothing special.
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Leaveumthinking and Lynette,
I agree with everything you said! But Leavem, many people like to put things in a box in order to understand them. Hence, the “biracial” thing.
I never found Beyonce to be stunningly beautiful. She’s cute but she wasn’t better looking than any of the other members of the original Destiny’s Child. They were all equally pretty.
Speaking of Beyonce, I also thought the same thing as you, Natasha. I never paid attention to her complexion, or anyone else’s really. But when I heard so many people call her “light skinned”, I wondered what they were seeing. Then I saw early pictures and saw that she’s nearly as pale as her mother. She’s bronzed and tanned most of the time “we” (the public) see her. Same with the other ladies you mentioned.
Outside of color (well, there are some really pale black folks all around the world…), everything else about Beyonce is stereotypically “black” so those who question her ethnicity are just ignorant. She’s hardly “ambigious”.
And good luck figuring out what each person calls “light skinned” because everyone is going to have their own perception of that. Many blacks like to call themselves “light” even when they are commonly seen as such. “L” could very well be one of them.
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I meant to type “Many blacks like to call themselves ‘light’ even when they are NOT commonly seen as such.”
Natasha,
Yeah but her tone in the differentiation wasn’t about having a “seperate cultural identity”. There was a sense of superiority there. This also comes across when she keeps bringing up her skin color and features. She feels that it puts her on the pedestal. When in reality, it doesn’t. Black is black.
Culture can influence anyone’s behavior to some extent. Yet, inform your entire individual personality? What does race have to do with whether someone is a suitable man or not?
Also, I was not trying to shame anyone. Hell, I don’t even know how to! LOL. That she came across so defensive and accused me of “shame tactics” is telling. If she feels that her attitudes and “preferences” are so pure and honest, why get defensive?
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I’m going to stae some fact for you, and I will not repeat myself again.
I am doing this because “mynameismynameis” and some other posters keep tqisting my words.
1. I am more of Beyonces mothers complexion than Beyonce, so there for I consider myself “Light skinned”, i usually do not use this term, but I did so you would understand the point i was making in my previous post.
2. I do not have superiority complexion of any kind, and do not feel I am better than anyone else.
3. I never said BW shouldn’t date BM, all I said was that they should keep their options open for men of other races as well.
As well, as seeing the statistic that 70% of african american women are single…well you do the math.
4. I really hate how people twist your words when what you said is out there loud and clear black on white.
I never said black women buy into the “shame tactics” i said the type who preach “Black love” who only see black men worthy of their love and hate all other men buy into the shame tactics, like black militants for example.
5. “Maybe L is differentiating herself from black American women due to her separate history/upbringing? Many black American women feel they must “stick to their own” due to the history and struggle of black Americans in the US. They will not date white men out of principle. Add on the covert or overt discouragment of friends and family members from dating outside of the race… So maybe she feels your “shame tactics” or any such pressures do not affect her or apply to her because she is not American. Just maybe. I don’t know. She might agree or disagree with that sentiment.”
I agree.
As an outsider “Looking in”, I see how loyal black women are to black men…nothing wrong with that, except…well, it’s not the smartest thing right now for BW.
BW do not win by doing this, BM do.
BW are the only ones who are loyal (if we see the statistic for BM and irr) to BM, the same can not be said for BM, they are not as loyal to BW, and BW are the only ones carrying the “black community” on their backs.
When will they start putting themselves first?
I’m sorry, but with the rate of BM in jail,on the ‘down low’,gay, uneducated,and in irr,there is just no way for BW, realistically, to seek out BM only.
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essentially what i’m saying is, BW do not limit yourself to “black love”, love comes in all colours and shades.
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complex*
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mynameismyname,
I could make a living out of dissecting celebrities’ appearances. And one thing that is for sure is that Beyonce is “constructed.” We both agree that all celebrities are more or less constructed, but Beyonce is on the extreme end. Unless you saw the original childhood photos in person, I’m not believing that she is naturall y that pale. Actually, I wouldn’t believe it then either because most people are of lighter coloring as children. But I do believe the childhood photos I’ve seen of her online show a golden complexion; not as pale as she is now. According to those pictures, she was originally around Solange’s color.
Culture can influence anyone’s behavior to some extent. Yet, inform your entire individual personality? What does race have to do with whether someone is a suitable man or not?
Some anthropologists believe personality is almost entirely learned. While I wouldn’t go that far, there may certainly be effects on personality as a result of culture. If an individual is raised in a culture where aggression is encouraged, they may internalize that and have a more aggressive personality. So if we are assuming that there is a black culture (which I don’t, but let’s say for the sake of argument that there is one), one could be attracted to or unattracted to this culture, and consequently, individuals of that culture.
Now, even if we were only dealing with behavior and not intrinsinc personality, values, expectations, and beliefs are all most largely influenced by culture, and those can and will have effects on behavior. And behavior is taken into account when judging the suitability of a partner.
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Natasha,
You’re absolutely correct: “Beyonce” is extremely constructed.
Neither of us have seen the woman in person. So, neither of us have “first hand evidence”. I know of the childhood photo you speak of. This also threw me off when I saw the early DC photos. It also threw me off when the people I know who grew up around the DC members and the Knowles family also described her as “really pale”. Former DC replacement Farrah Franklin even described Beyonce as being lighter as her. So, perhaps those early photos were tampered with and all of the Houston folks and Farrah are lying or exaggerating. But who should we believe? Two random folks like us? Or people who were around her and grew up around her who have taken photos with her?
In any event, her complexion doesn’t matter. But it just goes to show you that using celebrities as physical examples is extremely faulty.
Aren’t there subsets of culture? Even if there is a believed black culture, wouldn’t there be variations of it? And would each member of this culture be alike?
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She isn’t looking pale in this photo:
http://img39.imageshack.us/i/g5dy.png/
Or this one:
She’s definitely not wearing bronzer, and the younger photo even has bright lighting.
Former DC replacement Farrah Franklin even described Beyonce as being lighter as her.
Actually, she said “My assumption was that everytime I looked at a picture, [Beyonce] stood out more because she was the bright one. Not because she was the prettiest, but because she was lighter…I had to tan.” She was told to tan so Beyonce would remain the lightest in complexion.
In any case, I find her thoughts irrelevant to this discussion seeing as she came into the group after Destiny’s Child became famous. She would have known her after the fact.
Aren’t there subsets of culture? Even if there is a believed black culture, wouldn’t there be variations of it? And would each member of this culture be alike?
A subset isn’t a separate culture. It would still contain specific elements of the main culture.
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I agree, Lynette and Leaveum!
I’m tired of the propaganda that is causing *some* BW to throw themselves at any man who will have them or to view White men as some kind of savior from “those trifling Black men.”
My boyfriend’s not Black, but I’m not dating him because some Black man scarred me for life–what a silly idea! The last guy I seriously dated was Black, some guys in between were White, some Latino, etc. I don’t know why it’s so hard for people to believe that Black women are desirable, or that not everyone dates people because of some “hangup”.
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Natasha,
Damn, you’re just not willing to accept that this chick is really pale in person …and always was! LOL.
You’re black. You know that darkly pigmented people will see their complexion vary from picture to picture.
I know what I saw. I know what people who knew DC and the Knowles’ before we did said and they have no reason to lie about something as dumb as her skin color. Beyonce doesn’t have to bleach her skin. She’s already pretty damn pale! LOL.
But believe what you want to believe. It’s okay. This just shows how subjective perceptions of skin color are.
So dismissing someone’s culture is good reason to dismiss them even if they make for a perfectly suitable mate? I’m not very interested in “X” lifestyle, for instance, but let’s say I meet a nice young lady who happens to derive from that background. I should dismiss her because I’m not fond of that culture?
If a white employer sees you and decides that they’re not fond of the alleged black culture. And decides not to hire you because you must belong to that culture, per your race. Is this right?
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OMG, people really need stop putting words in my frickin’ mouth! I never said white men are better than black men!!
I never put ANY men on a pedastal!
I don’t chase men! WTF!? I can really see now that people here have issues!
My boyfriend is white and he is the one who chased me, I don’t chase men, and i have never seen a BW “throw themselves” at any man.
Damn, it’s annoying how people always twist your words.
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And FYI, Beyonce tans! When i am at the beach i lay out because i like it and i like getting darker, I have seen beyonce lay out many times.
She looks naturally “light skinned”, you can see clearly who “bleaches” their skin, like Lil” kim, they have this unatural light/ashy looking pale skin, it doesn’t look natural, it looks like a dark skinned person put lots of white powder on their face.
So yeah, you can tell who is naturally lighter, like Beyonce.
Even though I wouldn’t call beyonce light skinned, she is not “Brown” or “dark skinned”, she’s somewhere inbetween.
Alicia keys is light skinned, and she tans a lot too, to get darker.
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Damn, you’re just not willing to accept that this chick is really pale in person …and always was! LOL.
I do think she is pale, but not naturally that way. She is naturally a golden omplexion. As in this picture, sans professional lighting:
http://img503.imageshack.us/i/sanstitre0da.png/
and this one:
There is plenty more of those and they speak for themselvs. Yes, a person skin shade can appear differently from photo to photo, but a pale person is not going to appear that color, ever, let alone consistently. You know this and I know this. A person who is pale would only appear to be paler under white light.
I wonder what you are really arguing for: her being naturally pale or the idea of some black people being naturally pale in general.
So dismissing someone’s culture is good reason to dismiss them even if they make for a perfectly suitable mate? I’m not very interested in “X” lifestyle, for instance, but let’s say I meet a nice young lady who happens to derive from that background. I should dismiss her because I’m not fond of that culture?
I don’t think that L. ever said she would dismiss a suitable partner. She just said that in general, she wasn’t attracted to black men.
L,
She looks naturally “light skinned”, you can see clearly who “bleaches” their skin, like Lil” kim, they have this unatural light/ashy looking pale skin, it doesn’t look natural, it looks like a dark skinned person put lots of white powder on their face.
That’s exactly what I was referring to above. She has that “ghastly” cast, albeit not as drastically since she is naturally light. I can pull up some candids if you need proof…
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http://www.youtube.com/user/SheRocks07#p/a/u/1/Yh2kDJPWHnw
this video kind of sums up what I can’t put in words.
Preference is not a choice.
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Natasha,
Who’s arguing? Like I’ve said a million times before, percerptions of skin color are purely subjective.
What is extremely pale to me and others may very well be “not that light” to you. What may be “black” to me, may be “white” to you. Race is whatever the individual wants it to be.
Bottom line: if somone claims that they are “not attracted” to members of their “race” because of their race and “culture”- they have issues. We can try to rationalize or sympathize, but at the end of the day, something isn’t right with that line of thought.
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“Bottom line: if somone claims that they are “not attracted” to members of their “race” because of their race and “culture”- they have issues. We can try to rationalize or sympathize, but at the end of the day, something isn’t right with that line of thought.”
Nope.
Any sane person knows that preference is something you can’t control, it’s something you’re born with, everyone has a preference, yes, even you!
it doesn’t have to be someone with the same skin colour as yourself.
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Some people like to believe the lie that African American women are lonely and manless (like “L” for example). I guess that helps them sleep at night. The truth is black men (in general) are attracted to black women and marry them far more than white men or any other race of men. Many black women I know have no problem attracting just about any man they want. Some women on this blog feel that white men are better and black men do not meet their standards. Some have actually stated that in order to marry a black man they would have to settle or marry down. Some women need to look at themselves and make sure they themselves meet those standards. Maybe its you. If you are as put together as you say you are then you should have no problem attracting and keeping a good man of any race.
Also I’m tired of some black woman on this blog and others, complaining about how white men don’t want them. Or making out a check list to other black women on what they need to change or how they need to be or not be in order to get a white man.
SO THE FCUK WHAT! there are plenty of men of other races who do find black women attractive. Give them a try instead of going after men who you claim dont want you.
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mynameismyname, I try to give people the benefit of the doubt. But I see where you are coming from.
L., why are you attracted to white men (and not attracted to black men)? I think explaining why would be helpful if you feel you are being misrepresented. I do believe people have innate preferences but one can not ignore the role of socialization and culture in the formation or reinforcement of preferences.
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Leaveumthinking,
I’m with you on that. It’s almost embarrassing. Why in the world are some of these black women worrying about white men? It’s beyond me.
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Hmmm.
I fall down on both sides of this line.
On the one hand, I think fetishizing any particular type of body isn’t very healthy. I have blue eyes in a country where they are very exotic and any woman who comes up to me and uses the opening line “Wow, your eyes are so beautiful” is going to see me run fast and far.
I’m a guy. And I STILL don’t want to relate to people who think I’m attractive just because I’m something they don’t normally see.
On the other hand, people do indeed have preferences and it’s kind of useless to try to train them out of these with diatribes about politics. I would hope that people who do have preferences would be up front about them and not try to hide them or pass them off as “hell, everybody likes X”.
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hey Lynette,
Read your dissertation, thank you, was a great read 🙂
I’d completely forgottten to tell you. Very good work 😉
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Jesus christ…
Ok i’m going to put it as simple as i can.
Yes, i have a preference for white men, NOT a fetish, I repeat, NOT a fetish.
I don’t see blue eyes and think “gosh those blue eyes *drools*”
I’m from one of the whitest countries in the world, i have only been surrounded by white men all of my life, besides my father and my brother, the only men i have been exposed to have been white men.
Maybe that is why I have a preference for white men? I don’t know, all i know is that THAT is my preference and i can’t help it, and i really do not feel i need to explain myself because everyone has a preference.
At the end of the day, I find attractive men attractive and i recognize beauty in everyone.
I don’t seek out white men, i don’t chase men, i get approached regularly , i have no problem attracting men of all types of “races”.
I don’t worry about white men and what they think, i don’t worry about men period.
“Leaveumthinking”, you really need to stop putting words in my mouth.
I said that 70% of african american women are single, hell it’s been everywhere in the news.
Sorry if i offended you, but that is what is being said.Most african american women are highly educated more so than african american men, so of course it’s reasonable for them to date other men of other races. Why not? love is love, right?
I never said white men are the solution to every black womens problem, you saying that is very telling though.
Actually, you putting words in my mouth is very telling.
The black women empowerment blogs i have checked out have never said anything about “white men are the best ,black men suck” etc.
Again, very telling. Sometimes i wonder if people even bother reading posts here.
“L., why are you attracted to white men (and not attracted to black men)? I think explaining why would be helpful if you feel you are being misrepresented. I do believe people have innate preferences but one can not ignore the role of socialization and culture in the formation or reinforcement of preferences.”
I like white men because i find them physically attractive.
My first crush was a white guy, my first bf was white, etc etc.
I have grown up watching mostly white men in movies, television and irl.
I think my preference, if anything, is understandable.
Like i said, that doesn’t mean i find every white man i see on the street attractive, hell to the no! lol, ugly comes in all colours, but generally i prefer (good looking) white guys more attractive than other races of men.
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Thank you Leaveumthinking and Lynette.
As for L., if White guys are your preference, so be it. Please don’t use this forum to bash Black men or to tell Black women who don’t have the prefence for white men to expand or change our behavior. I don’t like the trend on the part of our people to bash the opposite gender in order to get with nonblacks. That’s not right.
La Reyna
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In my experience La Reyna and Lynette are both very fair-minded and sensible. If they agree on something it is almost always true.
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La Reyna, I never bashed black men.
Did you miss where i clearly pointed out “bad” men come in all colours?
If anything, I KNOW how strong a preference is, if a black woman is set on black men, and only finds black men physically attractive, there is nothing anyone in the whole world can do about it.
That is a preference, and that is attraction, you can’t change that, trust me.
And if we’re going to talk about bashing the opposite gender…have you been on youtube lately? there is a growing trend on bashing BW, yes by black men.
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And if we’re going to talk about bashing the opposite gender…have you been on youtube lately? there is a growing trend on bashing BW, yes by black men.
I’ve noticed this (recent?) trend of black men bashing black women. Mentioning, for example, the Sapphire stereotype or calling negative attention to their appearances. Not on youtube, but in real life. When called on it they claim they were just joking or essentially take the stance that they have carte blanche to talk about black women since they are also black. When black men trash black women and perpetuate stereotypes about them, others will think it’s okay to do so as well, and believe that black women must be terrible if even black men talk about them.
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^^^
Very true, Natasha but to rephrase the end of your previous comment…
When black WOMEN trash black MEN and perpetuate stereotypes about them, others will it’s okay to do so as well, and believe that black MEN must be terrible if even black WOMEN talk about them.
It’s a two way street. Two wrongs don’t make a right.
Dating outside of your race because you internalize the “societal stigmas” placed on them is wrong. La Reyna was right on.
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“I’ve noticed this (recent?) trend of black men bashing black women. Mentioning, for example, the Sapphire stereotype or calling negative attention to their appearances. Not on youtube, but in real life. When called on it they claim they were just joking or essentially take the stance that they have carte blanche to talk about black women since they are also black. When black men trash black women and perpetuate stereotypes about them, others will think it’s okay to do so as well, and believe that black women must be terrible if even black men talk about them.”
I think it takes a really weak man to insult a woman.
Just because you share the same skin colour,melanin, DNA, doesn’t mean you own me, i am not “your woman” and you are not “my man” because we both are black.
You are not my “brotha” unless we are blood related.
I think BW need to break free from being viewed as a “collective” with BM, it is only hurting BW.
BW need to be viewed as seperat to BM, as individuals, only then will BW break free from the negative stereotypes associated with them and this smoke screen that is the “Black community”.
I honestly do not care what others think, it’s when they start to act i get scared.
When they start acting out their thoughts…
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@L
If you grew up in white society, where only black people you knew were your family members, your preference for white men is somewhat understandable (read my previous posts on this page).
There’s nothing wrong with preferences (unless you always stick to them to a degree you would never even consider dating a person who doesn’t fit your “ideal type”, but that’s more of a fetish). I have preferences, you have your own. That is normal. Nothing wrong with that.
What is wrong is to dislike people of a particular race and refuse to date them (especially if it’s your own race we’re talking about) because of some stereotypes, or even bad experiences.
Some women here mentioned couple of times how bad black men can be to black women. Excuse me, but do you really think white men are any different? As a group I mean? Are there women who really, honestly believe one group of people (white men, for example) are more respectful, gentlemen, and “the ones who care”? White men mistreat women all the time. It’s nothing new. Domestic violence is everywhere. Not all men are like this, and perhaps (hopefully) most aren’t- but it has nothing to do with skin colour, religion, nationality, political belies etc. It really depends on person.
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“Dating outside of your race because you internalize the “societal stigmas” placed on them is wrong. La Reyna was right on.”
No one is doing that though, if that was the case, it wouldn’t last very long.
People who date other people based on superficial or “social stigmas” won’t be with eachother for very long.
marriages between a BW/WM couple is the lowest divorce rate out of all irr’s.
I will provide you with the links and statistics, and articles tomorrow, i’m going to sleep now, it’s late.
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“do you really think white men are any different? As a group I mean? Are there women who really, honestly believe one group of people (white men, for example) are more respectful, gentlemen, and “the ones who care”?”
Nope, trash comes in all colours and “races”.
I don’t hold any man up on a pedestal….lol it’s actually laughable, if you knew me, you’d understand.
I don’t think about guys before i sleep, i don’t talk about boys with my girlfriends, i don’t even date.
My bf had to really chase me and prove to me that he was serious before i even entertained the thought of being with him.
That’s just the kind of girl i am, and i can only speak for myself.
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i’m 21 by the way.
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Well, I haven’t read all of your posts on this subject (will try to find them), but I must say it’s not unusual for you to be attracted to white men, because you grew up among them. I mean, even if you didn’t of course you could find white men attractive, but especially if you grew up in all white society.
Those mixed race people in my country, I believe, date white people. Because those are the only people they meet, if nothing else.
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Studies on birds show that they prefer the race grew up among, not the race they were born into.
Jared Diamond notes, based on his own experience, that Chinese American women, when given an equal chance to marry white or Chinese, will prefer white men if they grew up in a white neighbourhood and Chinese men if they grew up in a Chinese part of town.
So based on that it would be “natural” for a black woman to prefer white men if she grew up in a white neighbourhood, if most of the men she has known in her life were white. But to black women who grew up in a black neighbourhood it might seem unnatural.
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mynameismyname,
Very true, Natasha but to rephrase the end of your previous comment…
When black WOMEN trash black MEN and perpetuate stereotypes about them, others will it’s okay to do so as well, and believe that black MEN must be terrible if even black WOMEN talk about them.
It’s a two way street. Two wrongs don’t make a right.
I agree. I don’t think black women badmouthing black men is okay either. And I most certainly would not allow anyone, black or otherwise, to do so in my presence. I’ve been put in that situation more since I’ve been with my SO; I guess people assume that since I am with him that means I dislike black men or feel they are unworthy as partners. One female friend of his family made a comment while we were discussing men, “I guess it’s safer and more secure being with Jay, what with so many black men in prison or uneducated and out of work…” Let’s just say I think she regrets saying that to me. 🙂
L,
You are not my “brotha” unless we are blood related.
I think BW need to break free from being viewed as a “collective” with BM, it is only hurting BW.
BW need to be viewed as seperat to BM, as individuals, only then will BW break free from the negative stereotypes associated with them and this smoke screen that is the “Black community”.
I agree and disagree with this. While I am all for individuality and people knowing who they are and what they want out of life, I think that there should be more unity between black people. Separation is not the solution, it’s the problem. Black men and black women came from the same place — black men and black women. A house divided against itself cannot stand. When black men and women work together and support each other, they prosper.
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Studies on birds show that they prefer the race grew up among, not the race they were born into.
Jared Diamond notes, based on his own experience, that Chinese American women, when given an equal chance to marry white or Chinese, will prefer white men if they grew up in a white neighbourhood and Chinese men if they grew up in a Chinese part of town.
So based on that it would be “natural” for a black woman to prefer white men if she grew up in a white neighbourhood, if most of the men she has known in her life were white. But to black women who grew up in a black neighbourhood it might seem unnatural.
True. (It’s always interesting to read Diamond). It does make sense.
But how could you explain someone who, like me, grew up among people of their own race, but is attracted to others? I am not saying I am not attracted to white men- I am, but only particular types. And ever since I was 13 or something I knew I was attracted on men of different races. I would catch myself looking at pictures or non-white actors in films. It’s not something conscious, it just seems natural to me.
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I am married to a black man, but I find all types of men attractive, including white men.When I was younger, I was good friends with a young white man who was very nice and attentive. I seriously doubt that he was a racist. He always expressing concern for me and to this day, I appreciate his friendship. I have met several white men who were decent people. So I don’t have a problem with interracial dating. But the only problem I have when people date interracially is when they start to put down black people. Why can’t you just have a preference for a certain type of person without putting other people down? Like some black men only want to date white women, so they put down black women by saying we are all evil, loud, and obnoxious. Or some black women only want white men so they say all black men are in prison or uneducated. Can’t people just love the person they want to love without being malicious to other people? Other than that, I don’t have a problem with interracial dating. In fact, If I hadn’t been cautious about interracial dating, I would have considered a relationship with that nice young man. He was a beautiful person.
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yet you post a video that is clearly trashing BW such as yourself?
I have heard about women like you but never actually talked to one.
you have some deep serious issues , you even laugh like it’s funny.
sad.
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what’s more sad is how you tell yourself that “white men do it too, so it’s ok, and not all black men are like this so it’s ok”, lol i can picture myself you sat in a corner rocking back and forth.
we call these type of men “defeated men”, because they run down women, any man worthy of respect and affection, does not put down a woman. ever.
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Mira, you have to understand that Americans, in general, believe in American exceptionalism. And because of this – and because racism was such a formative part of the American experience – most of them believe that NOTHING else out there in the world can compare to their history.
The idea that “American” drowns out “Black” in many places of the world threatens some black americans’ certainties about racial absolutism.
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L
That man Laurelton Queens is a bad joke, and waste of space. There is a growing number of black men like him, they tend to be louder than the huge majority of the good ones, too bad.
Good ones like Abagond 😉
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the ‘good ones’ are far and few, and way too silent about the BW bashing on youtube.
Sorry, but that’s the truth, if you’re silent you’re basically giving approval and might as well be a BW basher yourself, but the silence among the ‘good’ black men is very telling and unfortunate.
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Mira, you have to understand that Americans, in general, believe in American exceptionalism. And because of this – and because racism was such a formative part of the American experience – most of them believe that NOTHING else out there in the world can compare to their history.
The idea that “American” drowns out “Black” in many places of the world threatens some black americans’ certainties about racial absolutism.
Yes, i understand this. That’s why I believe it’s important (or useful at least) to learn about other cultures and their customs. In order to understand others- even (or, especially) those you see as enemies, you must understand culture.
Sadly, people often fail when it comes to this. That’s why many Serbs believed, during the Balkan war, that west hated them because they as people were so pure, so special and full of history (“Americans are just jealous of us because we have rich history and they don’t”). Similarly, Americans misinterpret Iraq or other Near Eastern countries (“they hate us because we have democracy”).
Sorry if this comment went way off topic. In any case, yes, it is true: being American in a foreign country is, more often than not, more important than your race. Though I must admit some of the people I know (who are not “crazy” about Americans), would accept black American more easily than the white one. Because white Americans are seen as those who have more power, and are more evil. I am not saying this is what I think, but I did hear people talk about it.
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Sorry that you have had bad experiences with white men, but you really need to stop with the generalizations.
The white men I have been with have never treated me “like a science project”.
you must be meeting low lives.
Have you ever entertained the thought that maybe it’s you and not the fact that you are a black woman that is the problem?
My boyfriend likes attractive women regardless what their “race” is or “racial make up” is.
you seem to meet low class men. I don’t.
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I think that L is entitled to her opinions as much as we all are. I haven’t agreed with her on a few things but it’s getting personal and unnecessary.
If one is going to ‘allege’ anyone is making something up about their life isn’t it only fair to assume the other party might be as well?? Fair’s fair.
Black women on this blog will date/marry black men as the only suitable option, but so will a number that marry/date white men. It’s not right to disparage members of the same race to justify dating outside. Neither is it right to be judgemental of black women that date interracially.
One’s dislike for another race and/or gender shouldn’t be so overpowering as to discredit other people’s relationships.
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It’s interesting to see that many women here don’t even acknowledge the fact L grew up in a different culture and different circumstances than most of the people here. If I understand correctly, she grew up among white people. Why is so shocking for her to be attracted to white men? And I am not sure guessing if her boyfriend was real, and asking why she is/isn’t married is an ok thing to do.
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Questioning whether someone is telling the truth about his or her personal background amounts to an ad hominem attack. I will delete those comments going forward.
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@ Mira
I do not believe anyone is making anything up. It was Thad who gave that suggestion. Reread his comment. I just sarcastically answered him to show him it can go both ways.
Saying that a married woman (who has stated she was married) must be meeting low lifes is a personal attack too. Referring to me as thick was a personal attack also.
Also the marriage “question” was not something I expected a answer from (already knew the answer) it wasnt even a question it was more of a comment. Something for her to think about. Why should Black American women (some who are married) take relationship advice from someone who
1 Has never been married or even been invovled in a long term relationship
2 Considers herself an outsider
3 Grew up around mostly white people so her idea of the black community is based on statistics and not real life experiences
4 Have a preference for white men over black men – many black women do not
5 Feels that black militants believe in “black love”- some date interracially.
@Merrimay
I am not against IR.
I do agree that black women need to be seen as individuals. But I do care when someone tell black women, who may not be interested in dating outside their race, that they need to separate themselves from black men and the black community.
You are not my “brotha” unless we are blood related.
I think BW need to break free from being viewed as a “collective” with BM, it is only hurting BW.
BW need to be viewed as seperat to BM, as individuals, only then will BW break free from the negative stereotypes associated with them and this smoke screen that is the “Black community”.
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Leaveumthinking,
I didn’t like the direction this conversation was going. I meant on both yours and Thad’s comment. Of course it can go both ways, but let’s just leave someone’s personal life.
Like I said, I haven’t read all L’s messages (and it looks like I can’t find all of them anymore). There’s nothing in those I’ve read that suggested she lied about her relationship, or her preferences. I don’t think she should be judged badly because of her preference for white men. If those are the only people she knows, she grew up among white people, then I don’t see it as something unusual. This was an example I gave concerning mixed people in my country. If they choose to wait for a black person, they would either wait forever or be forced to emigrate.
What I’m trying to say is that L obviously lives in a culture which is different than yours.
I don’t think it’s ok for her- or anyone for that matter- to think about black people based on statistics. But I do think that, if you (general you) want something to explain to her, you should take her culture into account. Otherwise, I don’t think it’s possible to communicate.
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“It’s interesting to see that many women here don’t even acknowledge the fact L grew up in a different culture and different circumstances than most of the people here. If I understand correctly, she grew up among white people. Why is so shocking for her to be attracted to white men? And I am not sure guessing if her boyfriend was real, and asking why she is/isn’t married is an ok thing to do.”
Certainly the differences in attitude have much to do with the fact that the white-black division is much deeper in the United States than it is in Europe. Europe hasn’t had 400 or so years of continuous tension and conflict between blacks and white, nor has it come close to destroying itself over race, as the US did in the 1860s. People indeed have to consider differences in context.
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L
I agree with you that many black men have made it bad for black women by dogging us in the media and in public. I mentioned earlier that I can’t stand it when a person dogs black women just because they want to date a white woman, or vise versa, when a black women dogs black men just because she wants to date a white man. But be careful, because two wrongs don’t make a right. Maybe that is what the other women are saying to you. Don’t dog black men because some of them dog us. I know it is tempting to do it because it is painful to hear black men put us down. Sometimes you want revenge or you want to seperate yourself from black men altogether, but understand that all black men are not jerks. So it wouldn’t be right to dog all of them. Remember, like I said before, two wrongs don’t make a right. Now when a black man does disrespect a black woman, especially a performer, we should challenge him. Don’t go to his performances. Refuse to give money to people who spread anti-bw propaganda. Stop laughing at jokes or listening to songs when it is against black women. My belief is that we as black women have not challenged men, especially black men, who disrespect us. We say, well they are black so what is the problem. I don’t agree with that. Blacks can be just as damaging to other blacks as whites can be to blacks. So attack the black men who put you down, not all black men.
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L
Don’t give up on the black community. We need each other. Don’t accept bad attitudes from some blacks who clearly hate their own kind, but don’t punish the entire black community. Remember, you are black so would you want a black man to dissociate himself from all black women the way some black men do? It hurt doesn’t it. So treat other people the way you would want to be treated. You don’t have to hate black men in order to have a good relationship with your white boyfriend. In fact, I hope that you and your boyfriend continue to have a good relationship but don’t diss black men in the process. Just be happy.
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L
And don’t listen to people who may have a problem with your relationship. If white people are the main people you have interacted with, then I suppose your attraction to white men makes sense. So don’t worry what people have to say. As Sting says in his song “Englishman in New York”, be yourself no matter what they say.
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@ Mira
I agree about the direction of Thads and my comment. I’ve suggested they be erased.
No one cares that she date white men thats beside the point. But being an African American woman I do care about AA women being portrayed as manless which is far from the truth coming from someone (who is not on the outside looking in). I also can’t stand when black women who date out keep stating statistics and tell other black women that dating out is their only option. Especially when there are women on this post who are married to black men.
And then suggest that black women separate from the Black community. Which is poor judgement when your family is black. Your kids will be black or part black. And most importantly you are black. You can’t run from yourself can you.
Like you said she has a different culture and she herself separates herself from other black women. So she should not worry about AA women and how many of them are married or single or if they date out or not. Remember no one liked when the question of marriage was thrown at her. So why is it okay to continue analyzing black women and their relationships?
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Leaveumthingking
I am curious, what black women who are married to black men have said it is okay to “separate from the black community”? Just because you marry someone of another race doesn’t mean you are “leaving the black community” When you are black, how is it possible to leave the black community? Even when you are married to someone of another race, you still can’t run away from the experience of racism. It wouldn’t be smart to alienate yourself from the black community when you are black. If a white person decides to hurt you because of your race, you will still need the black community more than ever. Ojay Simpson proved that. And as for people saying that African American women are manless, black women are the least likely to get married according to the 2000 census. I don’t know if interracial marriage is the solution. I think it is one of the solutions, but not the main solution. I wish blacks would marry each other more. I don’t know what the problem is with blacks marrying each other. But that is a problem I think black people SHOULD address. I mean there are millions of black children being brought up in manless households, without a father. And growing up without a father is a MAJOR problem. How can a man be a man without a man to teach him. Or how can a black woman know what man to choose as her mate without a positive male role model in her life. So it is important to address the situation. Maybe not just in terms of interracial relationships, even though I do feel that black women should consider it if black men are dating white women. I am happily married to a black man, but I am still concerned for black women who are single and looking for a man. I am concerned for the black community in general, especially the children. So what is wrong with talking about black women who are manless? Just because it is not my problem, doesn’t mean I shouldn’t be concerned for other black women? Well, I am.
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Well said.
I think there’s a post about it, “why so few black men marry black women”.
And growing up without a father is a MAJOR problem. How can a man be a man without a man to teach him. Or how can a black woman know what man to choose as her mate without a positive male role model in her life.
This is true. I grew up without my father (he died when I was 10 years old). In a way, I did have a father and it’s not like I don’t know what is like, but then again, I was a child when he died. So no, people, it’s not the same. A child needs both parents.
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No one cares that she date white men thats beside the point. But being an African American woman I do care about AA women being portrayed as manless which is far from the truth coming from someone (who is not on the outside looking in).
I had no idea this stereotype existed.
I also can’t stand when black women who date out keep stating statistics and tell other black women that dating out is their only option. Especially when there are women on this post who are married to black men.
Dating out should not be a “desperate move”, it should be a decision made after meeting a person you like. A person who happens to be of a different race. End of story.
I don’t really like the whole idea behind “X (wo)men are bad, I have to date Y kind of (wo)men”.
Like you said she has a different culture and she herself separates herself from other black women. So she should not worry about AA women and how many of them are married or single or if they date out or not.
Well, just like her culture might be different than yours, your culture is different than her. In other words, yes, of course you have right to defend your point of view.
I don’t think presenting black women as undesirable is an ok thing to do, nor presenting black men as violent and irresponsible. (Not saying this was L’s point, but since we’re talking about it…) On the other hand, I don’t think people should get mad if others choose to date outside their race, or claim they’re attracted to people of a different race. (Once again, I’m not saying it was your goal, but let’s make things clear).
Remember no one liked when the question of marriage was thrown at her. So why is it okay to continue analyzing black women and their relationships?
I think overall analyze of black marriage, interracial dating, white marriage, racism etc. is ok, but not analyzing personal lives of site visitors.
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Jeri
It’s not black women who are married to back men. Either I wrote it wrong or it did’nt read well.
What I meant is L mentioned black women separating from black men and the black community. Like black women marrying black men are a long shot. Even though there are black women on this blog who have said they were married to black men.
Okay I see ( I used Especially when I should have said Even though )
Here are some of her statments statement
I understand black women being individuals but I did not understand the black community being a smoke screen comment.
You are not my “brotha” unless we are blood related.
I think BW need to break free from being viewed as a “collective” with BM, it is only hurting BW.
BW need to be viewed as seperat to BM, as individuals, only then will BW break free from the negative stereotypes associated with them and this smoke screen that is the “Black community”.
If she is dating outside her race then good for her but stop saying AA need to wake up and datec outside their race . Some black women have no problem attracting good black men and some dont want to date outside their race. Just like it is nothing wrong with her dating out there is nothing wrong with those who date in.
Remember, I am not an african american woman, those shame tactics might work on the “Black love” type black american women, but not with me.
I think black AMERICAN women should widen their dating pool, yes. Why not? Seeing how many black men are dating “Out” , and the 70% of AA women being single.
What, do you have a better suggestion? Should they wait for their “black prince”, perhaps?
That will be a long wait, sorry, but that is the truth, and you know it.
it’s time for AA women to wake up, seriously.
I’m sorry, but with the rate of BM in jail,on the ‘down low’,gay, uneducated,and in irr,there is just no way for BW, realistically, to seek out BM only
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Euzulierdyes
I know that there are many black families. But there are many fatherless families also. You know that. What is wrong with black women broadening her options? No, not in a desperate sort of fashion. It would not make sense for a black women to marry any white man she comes across. That would be real bad. You should always marry someone that you love, someone that you have something in common with, someone you are attracted to, someone who is good to you and loves you in return. There are many white men who are not suitable for marriage just like there are many black men. So you should be careful of course. But what is the problem with considering interracial marriage? What is wrong with broadening your options? And don’t give me that ” all white men only want to sleep with black women and not marrying them” stuff. There are many black men who only want to sleep with you, so what is the difference. You have to be smart no matter who you date. And I do know of a black woman who decided to broaden her options when she was quite young, she was 15, and she started to date a white man while in highschool. They are now happily married with two children and they have been together for 24 years. So you can find someone who wants to marry you. The key is to treat each man as a individual. If he is marriage material and you like him and he wants you, then what is the problem?
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Leaveumthinking
I understand that there are black women who only want to date black men. I personally prefer black men over any other men in terms of looks, but If I was single, I wouldn’t rule out other men. There are black women who are tired of being lonely. They are concerned that they may never find their ” Mr Right”. So we shouldn’t harrass black woman if interracial marriage is something they want to consider. I understand that you probably didn’t like what L said about “leaving the Black community”. I didn’t either. But lets not judge her choice to be with someone who is not black, just because you may not want a white man.
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And I just want to make one last comment. I am christian so I think it is best not to sleep with someone before marriage. That would be the case if you slept with a black man as well as a white man. There are many black women who regret the decision they made when they slept with a black man, just as much as when they slept with a white man. You can get pregnant, get a disease, a broken heart etc. I am not a hyprocrite. I was not a virgin when I met my husband but boy oh boy, do I have some regrets. So don’t think just because you are with a black man, that somehow making bad decisions is a good thing. Whether you are a black man or white man, you can have some serious regrets. Black woman out there, please make good choices, make good decisions. Remember one mistake can ruin your life or the life of your children. So be choicy no matter who you decide to date.
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I Won’t And You Can’t Make Me by Sister Toldja
Single Black Tragic Woman Theatre is in effect mode. The things we used to discuss amongst ourselves in Essence, in beauty shop and on ladies nights are now being placed on the national stage. The invisible woman got the whole world watching…and instead of celebrating her, they’re trying to figure out why she can’t get a man. How dreadful. How embarrassing. How wholly unsurprising.
I’m not linking any of these articles or news stories. They are easily found via Google. I’m not giving them any more hits. If a major network or paper wants to holler at ME, they can do that. Send some readers my way, pay me back for the mental anguish I have been caused for the past few weeks since you all have decided to make Black women look like a tragic and lonely monolith. Quote me, pay me, apologize…do something.
I don’t hear anyone acknowledging how centuries of oppression and a systematic destruction of the Black man, woman and child could render us unable to love one another . All I hear is Black women who are successful are lonely because they are surpassing their men in class, outnumber them regardless of class and may be too picky. All I hear are people who got all the nerve in the world for trying to fix someone else who are telling me what I am doing wrong with my life. I am not comfortable with short sighted arguments for a subject as life altering as my chances of ever being married and starting a family.
What is REALLY burning my biscuits though is the tired advice being thrown at sisters and one suggestion in particular has me vexed. We are being told to date out of the race. This is problematic on a number of levels:
1) I believe that most of the sisters who want to date interracially have already started doing so without any one’s permission or urging. This “advice” implies that sisters haven’t the wherewithal to consider making this move until someone else tells them it’s okay.
2) It’s insulting to men of other races to pose them as a second prize trophy of sorts.
3) It’s a slap in the face to sisters who have declared themselves to be loyal to Black men to hear “Naw, we good. Go on ‘head, we don’t care.”
4) It disregards the fact that many Black women are simply not interested in dating men of other races.
I understand how numbers work. I get that if every Black man got married to a Black woman, there would still be some Black women left over. I get that while most Black men who marry will marry Black, they are more likely to try something else than we are. I even get that the media would rather harp over the tragic Black woman than to engage long term solutions for healing Black men so that the man shortage disappears over time*. I get all of these things, I accept them and I proceed with this knowledge.
What I do not get are the number of people, usually Black women and White men, who treat me like I am some short of racist leper for not being willing to date men of other races. I do not get the resentment thrown at Black women who do not choose to entertain non-Black men. If I unpacked my loyalty to our men and completely disregarded my father’s wish to see me bring home a strong Black man like himself …I still wouldn’t be physically attracted to men of other races. If I were somehow able to change the latter, I’d be compromising my commitment to the former.
I’ve met a few White anti-racism advocates in my day who seemed more fascinated by Black culture than they actually were committed to ending oppression. They claimed to be so devoted to dismantling their White privilege, but when they found out my personal stance on interracial dating, I was no longer someone of interest to them. It seemed like they took it as a slap in the face. How dare I be unwilling to date White when they were willing to date Black? Surely the greater sacrifice was on their part, right?
Never mind the longstanding complicated relationship between Black women and White men. Never mind that I, like the men I speak of, am infatuated and in love with Black people and Black culture. Never mind my personal experiences with mixed race bloodlines and relatives I will never meet because I’m Black. If I don’t open my mind to dating White or any other race of man beside my own, I’m just a close minded bigot, right?
Wrong.
When it comes to matters of race, one cannot reasonably compare the behaviors of the oppressed minority to the privileged majority. Lacking any racially assigned power in America, Black people cannot be racist. We can be biased (“Hey, I prefer to date Black men, as I am Black myself”) or even prejudiced (“I don’t date White men because I hate them!”). As I have stated previously, I subscribe to Dr. Beverly Tatum’s definition of racism: a system of privilege and oppression meted out on the basis of race. While that definition doesn’t give Black people a pass for being hateful or cruel to Whites, it acknowledges that even the most prejudiced amongst us lacks the ability to be racist, as that prejudice does not come with any power.
I see myself as not prejudiced nor biased, but instead, committed to a mission that calls for a Black partner. This is not an easy mission, nor a guaranteed one. But it is the one that I want. That is my choice and my natural inclination. I respect the will of others to make their own choices, so long as it is not the product of self-hatred or fetishization of otherness.
Some people confuse having a fetish for people of other races with being “colorblind”. There is nothing more foolhardy than trying to label yourself “colorblind” in one of the most racist countries on the planet. We should all be color AWARE, so that we can actively dismantle racism, not pretend that ignoring it or making a bunch of “rainbow babies” will just make it disappear. I am constantly floored by the expectation that Black people are supposed to love and embrace Whites with no regard to the centuries of oppression we have faced globally. As if any discomfort or unwillingness we have to date across racial lines or to open up our communities or schools is the exact same as when it was done to us. Apples and oranges. I do and have and will embrace White people with love and friendship. But when it comes to a romantic partner, the only image for me is that of my Black brother. Any White person who challenges me on my right to make that choice is not truly the ally they fancy themselves to be.
I do not judge harshly any White or non-Black person who chooses not to date outside of their race for loyalty or bias. If it’s done out of racist hate or prejudice, yes, that’s wrong. Same as it would be for a Black person. But I am leery of ANYONE who has a strong preference for people of another race versus members of their own. A race is not a type. Saying “I like Black chicks” is not the same as saying “I like girls who write poetry”. While it’s natural for us to gravitate towards our own, to constantly seek otherness often time says something about you and some sort of failing in your self esteem.
If you are a sister who wants to date men of other races and can do that without saying “I hate Black men” or “I’ll never date a brother”, then more power to you. I cannot expect other sisters to have the same loyalty that I do, if for no other reason that there are not enough brothers for us to all get one. And while I hope that the sisters who do look elsewhere do it because of honest attraction and love, I can’t help but to acknowledge that the more of them who leave, the better my chances are at what I truly want.
I have known and will continue to meet interracial couples of all sorts that consist of awesome people who are still very connected to their own race. Good for them. Doesn’t mean it’s for me. I know people who move to the suburbs, too and I’d be double damned before I did that. If I brought home a non-Black partner, my parents would be somewhat disappointed. But ultimately, their biggest concerns would be if this person made me happy and how well he treated me. If he was a good man who loved me and cared for me, they would make peace with my choice and embrace him as a family. It’s not pressure from my parents that informs my choice. I WANT to say “Dad, look. I found a strong Black man like you. I looked at the example you set for me and it informed my choice.” I WANT a Black man in my life. I want to have a few more short term jaunts with brothers. I want another Black boyfriend (or two) and I want a Black husband. This is what I have always wanted and this is what I shall seek. I speak for myself and a number of other sisters when I ask that you PLEASE stop trying to change my mind.
And I am telling you, I’m not going. This time, that affirmation will work.
ST
*-Yes, there is an actual shortage. That’s not criticism, hatred or cause for widespread panic. The existence of one or more stellar Black men does not negate the fact that they are outnumbered, so please don’t let your pride get in the way of reality and try and deny it, okay? XOXO-Me
Made lovely by Sister Toldja
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La Reyna
I said I wasn’t going to make another comment but, oh well. I love black men. I am married to a black man and he is very good to me. But, I still say, that when you consider all the black men who only want to be with white women, it would be strange not for black women to broaden her options. Yes I know that alot of white men wouldn’t consider a black woman to save their lives, but I do believe that good white men do exist. I respect your devotion to black men, but not all black woman feel the way you do. My concern is that black women should marry a GOOD man, period. Not be overly concerned with his color. I do believe that there are WAY MORE black men who fit into this category for black women. I never said that black women should loose their minds and date white men exclusively. The likely of finding a black man that is good for you is way more possible, but I think that black women should date all types of men. There are black women who agree with me, so for the black women who only want to date black men, that is wonderful, as long as we respect other people’s decision to be different.
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La Reyna
I do respect your decision to be with a black man.
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@ Mira
I understand what you are saying but where did I say that she should NOT date outside her race and Only date black men. I have said dating out of your race is fine as long as it is based on love and not self hate.
I had no idea this stereotype existed.
I had no idea the single black woman stereotype existed either until I started reading statistics being quoted mostly from women who then tell other black women to date out.
You would have to read some of the comments on all of Abagond black women/ white men blogs.
Dating out should not be a “desperate move”, it should be a decision made after meeting a person you like. A person who happens to be of a different race. End of story.
I don’t really like the whole idea behind “X (wo)men are bad, I have to date Y kind of (wo)men”
I agree. Not ALL women who date out are making a desparate move. But SOME women do sound pretty desparate complaining about how white guys won’t date them because of stereotypes. In example White guys tell them “I would consider dating black women but they are too ghetto” I would not date any guy of any race who repeat negative stereotypes like this to my face. I’m tired of hearing about it.
I think overall analyze of black marriage, interracial dating, white marriage, racism etc. is ok, but not analyzing personal lives of site visitors.
Thats correct so I if you dont want your personal life brought up then don’t say other people are meeting low lives in their PERSONAL life.
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Leaveumthinking
Oh boy, do I agree with you when you said you wouldn’t date a white man who says ” All black women are ghetto”. I have read some comments of white men who have said that. I would not suggest that a black woman date a man who is that narrowminded. Only be with a man who respects your humanity, period.
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La Reyna:
Thank you for the Sister Toldja comment.
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“Russia is a good example of ghetto, unless its one of the richy rich areas it looks like hillbilly Compton with ice on it.”
LOL i have been to russia and i completely agree with that!
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and i agree with you Jeri.
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…but because the people are white they don’t get labeled as ghetto.
No, they get labled as trailer-park dwellin’, sister-schtuppin’ white trash, which is oh so much nicer.
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I never been to Russia, so I don’t know what’s going on, but I can speak of my country (and most of former Yugoslavian republics, Hungary and Greece).
We are not white trash, people! I mean, of course there are uneducated people, but just because we don’t live on “west” it doesn’t mean we’re all “ghetto”. I live in a city with 2 million people, it’s 14th largest city in Europe I believe. So it’s not like I don’t know what’s electricity, hot water or a computer.
Like I said elsewhere, in Eastern Europe, it’s common to be educated and poor, for example. Or uneducated and rich. So I am not quite sure who are those “white trash” women you are talking about.
But I agree: going to Eastern Europe to pick a wife is wrong on so many levels. Firstly, it shows you have bad opinion on women of your own culture. Also, it shows your superiority complex (do you really think women will be crazy about you just because you are an American, even if you’re fat, bald and uneducated?) Another thing: it shows your ignorance for other people’s cultures, including those of American people of another race.
What makes these people think they would be more compatible with an Eastern European woman than an American black woman?!? American black women are Americans, but for some reason these “wife hunters” fail to see this.
Another thing that pisses me off is the belief Eastern European women are “tame, submissive and traditional”. Excuse me?!?!? I really have no idea if this stereotype is true for Asian women, but I can assure it isn’t for Eastern European women. No way. Just because Eastern European people are often proud to be traditional and her mother always cooked for her father, it doesn’t mean an educated Eastern European woman would be an American man’s servant. If nothing else, Eastern European women- those who are not gold diggers, like most of us aren’t- want career; we are not prepared for becoming housewives after we marry (not that I have anything against housewives).
(For example, a man saying: “I like your culture because it’s traditional”. She hears: “I like the fact you have a rich history and culture”. He actually says: “Make me a sandwich”. The moment she realizes what’s really going on, the guy is in trouble).
So these men quickly realize their passport can’t really get them an educated, intelligent young woman, so they seek those who are like them- local “white trash” girls. That’s what’s going on.
Don’t get me wrong. I am not against international marriages. But just like with interracial marriages: you are not marrying culture/race/ethnicity, but a person!
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@Mira,
I think the comment you responded too was a bit too ignorant to be deserving of a reply.
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” Russia is a good example of ghetto, unless its one of the richy rich areas it looks like hillbilly Compton with ice on it.
The ghetto stereotype would be a good idea for a post because I see trashy poor white areas all the time but because the people are white they don’t get labeled as ghetto.”
Yep, hillbillies who happened to invent space travel.
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@frustrated guy
Well, it wasn’t just one comment. Several people pointed out things about Russian & Eastern Europen “white trash”.
Moscow is the largest European city. Just like with any large city (or country), you can meet any- and I mean- any sorts of people there I guess. It’s not educated Russians’ fault westerners only pay attention on things that do match their stereotype (drunks, “commies”, criminals, etc.)
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Mira
”Well, it wasn’t just one comment. Several people pointed out things about Russian & Eastern Europen “white trash”. ”
I agree Mira, its quite hypocritical and ignorant because reverse that and apply it to blacks and there would be outrage.
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I am open to discussion and criticism. However, I must say I find interesting (in not so positive way), that some people who fight against discrimination and ignorance, can apply the very same mechanisms for stereotyping others (other nations, for example).
Most of you are black. You rightfully get angry when someone stereotype your people, mistreat you in real life and media, and create a “single story” to make you look bad.
Then how can you* be so ready to embrace stereotypes about other cultures created by the very same media and very same mechanisms?
*general you, and not all you, of course
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MerriMay,
Thanks for understanding.
The last thing I want is to start a fight here, but people need to understand creating “single story”, stereotype and prejudice is not ok.
But it’s easy. Especially if all you know about a group of people is something you see a) on TV, b) on your quick visit to a country/place, c) a friend told you.
If you have some prejudice about other cultures or some stereotypes you just take for granted, please wait for a second and think about it. Think about ways you can unlearn those stereotypes. Then try to apply this to matters of race- it often works the same way. Whites are quick to make judgements and stereotypes of black people, and they rarely try to unlearn them, just like they rarely stop to think if everything they see on TV is true.
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I have been to russia, the nicer areas were just that, nice, lovely, but the other parts….frightening, just like any black ghetto in america except they are white.
There are ghettos everywhere, some worse than others though.
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“Most of you are black. You rightfully get angry when someone stereotype your people, mistreat you in real life and media, and create a “single story” to make you look bad.
Then how can you* be so ready to embrace stereotypes about other cultures created by the very same media and very same mechanisms? ”
That’s what I’ve been said many times on this blog already. American minorities are in many respects victims, but that doesn’t make them innocent.
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Mira
I agree with you Mira. It isn’t right to call entire group of people white trash or to caterogize a group like that. Please forgive me if it seemed I was agreeing with her assestment of Russians that way. NO, I agreed that people shouldn’t spread anti-bw propaganda but no I do not believe that Russian women are “white trash”.
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Mira, totally agree. That comment was blatantly ignorant, not to mention offensive.
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jeri,
I wasn’t referring to you, and don’t worry, I wasn’t offended or anything. I just think it’s always good to remember that stereotypes and “single stories” can be made based on any criteria, not just skin colour. Most stereotypes that exist are about groups of people we know little (people of other nations, ethnicities, religion, etc.)
Anti black woman propaganda is an extremely bad thing (just like general anti-black propaganda) and of course all the people should fight it.
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Hey guys, i just wanted to know what you think of this comment…it’s from the WAOD’s blog (www.whataboutourdaughters.com)
it’s about the marriage rate for African american women. it’s from a blogger called Khadidja she has a blog called : muslimbushido
“Lunanoire,
You (and others) have quite clearly described various behavior patterns. Among other things, you said, “Even if more black boys and men took advantage of educational and vocational opportunities, I have doubts that BW would automatically gain.”
You’re absolutely correct about this. Look at the behavior of the AA men who do have “good” educations and jobs. Since so many BM in that category are not marrying at all, or they’re not marrying BW, there’s no reason to assume that BW would gain from AA men having more opportunities. I learned that just by watching the behavior of the BM that went to college and law school with me. There’s usually little to no return on that sort of investment (creating opportunities for AA men) flowing back to any BW at all.
If you look at their mass behavior (not the lip-service-only rhetoric), it’s quite clear that most AA men don’t value marriage, and are not at all concerned about the now-dead “Black family.” AA men LIKE the status quo situation of their mass refusal to marry the BW they have sex with and impregnate. The bulk of AA men are quite happy with a lifetime of sleeping around without the commitments or responsibilities of marriage.
If you look at their mass behavior, it’s also quite clear that AA men are also not particularly concerned about the children they produce.
These “save the dead Black family” discussions are not even a blip on most AA men’s radar . . . UNLESS and UNTIL BW start talking about solutions that don’t include BW continuing to wait around for AA men—such as IRR and focusing on non-AA men (for those BW who just have to have a BM as their husband).
Many of the BM who, at that point, enter these conversations do so solely to try to defend BM’s image and defend the status quo.
So that’s when you hear:
1- the denials that the problem exists;
2- the attempts to minimize AA men’s culpability for their own mass actions (their mass failure to protect or provide for AA children—including the failure to provide stable, married households for their children to grow up within);
3-the attempts to scare BW away from exploring their IRR options (that “WM will just use you for sex” talk—meanwhile, that’s exactly what the masses of AA men are using BW for—somehow this detail escapes the BM protectionists’ notice);
4-the attempts to manipulate/pressure BW to lower whatever standards they might have (the incessant demands to hear BW say, over and over again, that they would date “blue collar” BM—meanwhile, NO other type of woman on this planet is required to recite a “dating loyalty oath” to include blue collar men as dating partners. Many of the same AA men who insist that AA women swear dating allegiance to “blue collar” BM also demand that AA extend this same dating allegiance to BM ex-convicts, BM recovering addicts, old BM for young BW (see Steve Harvey), and so on.
5-the attempt to pretend that others are doing the same things and having the same experiences to the same degree. NO, nobody else is having out of wedlock children at the rate of AAs. NO, nobody else is trying to turn a woman having an education into a stigma at the rate of AAs. Others might be experiencing milder versions of these pathologies, but NOBODY is living like the masses of AAs.
Peace, blessings and solidarity.
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L,
The comment from Khadija’s blog above is an EXCELLENT analysis of the true state of affairs for AA women in the so called “BC”.
I especially agree with Khadija’s solution below for AA women to solve the lack of quality marriage partner options they’re facing.
“…BW (need to-my words)start talking about solutions that don’t include BW continuing to wait around for AA men—such as IRR and focusing on non-AA men (for those BW who just have to have a BM as their husband.”
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@Lynette:
Absolutely! You do-not have to bash one group in order to justify your inclinations to another. It is what it is, for what ever reason, good or bad. In the overall scheme of things, most people, hopefully will do what is good for them. Otherwise, speaking for myself, I could care less who someone is attracted to or isn’t, it comes down to the individual’s choice. I take umbrage to the negative views espoused in order to justify ones’ choices. If you have certain preferences for certain men, get on with it!
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Lynette says,
Please!!! Do you truly believe there are more White men pursuing relationships with Black women than Black men? I don’t think so!!! Really, this is beginning to look pathetic. There are bad apples in every race. Stop bashing my brothers!
laromana says,
Nowhere does Khadija state that “more White men are pursuing relationships with Black women than Black men” but her comments are CORRECT in their conclusion that BW can’t rely on “waiting SOLELY on BM” when it comes to finding quality marriage partners.
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@ Lynette
I agree 100%
Please stop bashing black men. This includes my father and five brothers, good men who love black women.
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When you bash your own race you are only bashing yourself. That should go without saying, but some people here do not seem to understand that. (Note that there is a huge middle ground between bashing on the one hand and being uncritical on the other.)
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L
It seems that you have lost faith in black men but I am going to say this again. You can date interracially without bashing black men. I don’t like it when men bash black women so I feel it would wrong and unfair to do it to black men. I am married to a good black man who is suuportive, a Christian, who is thoughtful, and very compassionate. The men in my family are lovers of black woman and will stand up for black women in a heart beat. To prefer interracial dating shouldn’t cause a person to malign an entire group of people. So please consider forgiveness as it seems that you have been hurt by black men.
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It looks like everything east of Germany is “Russia” for you. You make quick generalizations about nations, and you also seem to pack half of Europe in the same box. True, that’s the exact thing some people do with Africa, but it is a wrong thing to do. I understand you’re angry because of how whites treat black people, but repeating their lies and mistakes is not the best thing to do.
Like I already said, Eastern European people are often called “trash”. Russians, are seen as lazy drunks (like I said, there are youtube videos for people to laugh at), while people on the Balkans are seen as violent beasts. Those images are shaped by the same mechanisms and media that make black people look bad. In fact, part of “single story” about Balkans and Eastern Europe in the western media was to show how America is not racist- by showing humiliating and dehumanizing images of white people. But that’s another story. Just let me assure you nobody I know think western media praise Eastern European people. But as usual, people only care about things that affect their own group.
Go oneday and see for yourself so the next time some white person calls black women ghetto you can point them to the real ghettos.
Go where? Russia? I’d like to go, but not that I have money to travel. But if I do go and encounter this kind of attitude, of course I’ll fight against racism.
This is why the “interracial marriage” is unreal because whites think of themselves as superior no matter what and even with money and achievements they will still call blacks ghetto and look down on us.
I already explained why interracial marriages were unreal in my country and whole former Yugoslavia (you need at least 2 races for interracial marriage). But I must point that, given the fact only a few non-white people live in former Yugoslavia, interracial marriages were common- more common than, say, marriages with Gypsies. But not as common as international or interreligious marriages – those were pretty common. Even today (after all the horrors that happened) they are not as rare as you might think. I am a mixed person in that sense, and so is my husband.
I don’t know about other Eastern European countries and whether interracial marriages are common there.
At the end of the day, why would you care about some redneck man who is into submissive white women? If there are indeed trashy white women who’d want him, let it be. Why would you want such a person to be attracted to black women? Wouldn’t that be insulting to black women?
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Hi there I don’t know about Serbia I never been there and i don’t think i would ever go after what i have seen in Russia.
I am sorry to hear this (especially given the fact Serbia is not the same thing as Russia… Would it make any sense if I say “I won’t go to Canada because I dislike America”?) In any case, I am sorry for your decision but of course I respect it.
But I do see that white people live nasty and yet they still look down on black people and call any black person even a rich and famous black person “ghetto.”
That’s because many white people don’t respect black people. It’s nothing new.
Nobody stigmatizes and stereotypes white people that live dirty and live in shacks. They always stereotype blacks so that no matter where we go or what we do we are still seen as ghetto.
This is interesting, because my experience is different. White people that live dirty are stereotyped (we have seen this stereotype in this post, if nothing else). The way you speak, one would think Eastern European women are a) dirty, trashy and drunk but b) praised for their beauty
And with Eastern Europe, white men go there all the time and marry any white woman they can get even if the white lady is from a shanty town. But just because the white lady comes from Eastern Europe the white man won’t call her ghetto like they will call ANY black woman ghetto.
What are you trying to say exactly? That black women should not be stigmatized (because ghetto stereotype is a lie), or that Eastern Europen should be stigmatized, because they are white trash (and should be treated as such?)
They say the reason blacks are being stabbed and attacked is because black people are destroying Russia
So when blacks are killed or harassed over there the cops do nothing because they think blacks are the reason their country is so crappy.
I am sorry to hear black people are mistreated in Russia. It looks like Russians want to blame blacks for their problems. You are right to fight against it.
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Whatever your preference, so be it. Stop caring what people think if this is something you want. In the end it is between you and that person. You have to live with the consequences good or bad. Bringing up stats about this group not marrying in high numbers or black men this black men that, means nothing if that is who you are not attracted to. Why the concern for them if you do-not wish to enter into relationships with them? Get on with your life! Also, why only white men? Why not other racialized men or black men from other countries? Something aint right in the land of Denmark here. “Thou dost protest to much”!
If you want to date white men go ahead, no-one is holding you back! Please, don’t employ white supremacist ideas such as black men are this or that, or become defensive. It’s no-ones business but yours in the end regardless of any opinions they may hold.
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Herneith
Whatever your preference, so be it. Stop caring what people think if this is something you want. In the end it is between you and that person. You have to live with the consequences good or bad. Bringing up stats about this group not marrying in high numbers or black men this black men that, means nothing if that is who you are not attracted to. Why the concern for them if you do-not wish to enter into relationships with them? Get on with your life! Also, why only white men? Why not other racialized men or black men from other countries? Something aint right in the land of Denmark here. “Thou dost protest to much”!
If you want to date white men go ahead, no-one is holding you back! Please, don’t employ white supremacist ideas such as black men are this or that, or become defensive. It’s no-ones business but yours in the end regardless of any opinions they may hold
I agree. Also why do these women even care if some black women prefer to date only black men or other racialized men?
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Sorry for the typos I’m sleepy
* A black woman
* intelligent
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“I agree with this statement. For example, I have heard with my own ears, WHITE MEN refer to Michelle Obama as ghetto. A black women who is articulate, intellegent, grew up in a household with two black parents, attended a magnet high school, has an Ivy League education(graduated from Princeton and Harvard ), made an annual salary of six figures, and is married to The President of the United States.
The White men who referred to her as ghetto has not achieved any of the above. So how can they call her ghetto? What exactly makes her ghetto?
I guess to them BLACK SKIN does.”
Response:
Leaveumthinkin, are you serious. what kind of ignorant “dip-sh*ts,” were these????
I have to say though i totally respect and think its great and fine that some bw prefer to only date/marry bm. there are great bm out there and we built a great culture there is nothing wrong with wanting to pass that on to your offspring. as someone who culturally prefers bm, but also dates non-bm and leave the possibility of marrying/dating a non-bm open, I think its fine that people want to marry inside their race. Really dont care if whites only marry other whites or asians other asian to be honest. People can do as they please, as long as you dont try and control other people’s choices.
Also to add on, even though there are some wm who love bw, I’m sorry as a group white men are not friends to bw never have and i’m certain never will. As a bw who could end up with a man of any race, honestly I don’t think i’m going to feed the term “biracial,” to my kid. They will just be brown and I will make sure they know that their roots are in black culture for sure. I don’t believe in marrying/dating non-bm out of superiority and I sure as hell don’t believe white men are any better or superior to bm. Their sh*t stinks too.
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i knew a white guy from serbia. he was very nice, he even gave up his seat to me. ofcourse that was only one person, so not really an accurate gage…
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peanut
“I agree with this statement. For example, I have heard with my own ears, WHITE MEN refer to Michelle Obama as ghetto. A black women who is articulate, intellegent, grew up in a household with two black parents, attended a magnet high school, has an Ivy League education(graduated from Princeton and Harvard ), made an annual salary of six figures, and is married to The President of the United States.
The White men who referred to her as ghetto has not achieved any of the above. So how can they call her ghetto? What exactly makes her ghetto?
I guess to them BLACK SKIN does.”
Response:
Leaveumthinkin, are you serious. what kind of ignorant “dip-sh*ts,” were these????
When I worked at the Civil Courthouse, during lunch there were a group of white guys (who looked in their mid to late twenties) sitting at a table across from me discussing how unattractive and ghetto Michelle Obama was. I wanted to correct them but I was at work, they were white and I was black (you know how that go) it could have escalated. I needed my job at the time.
I have also read comments over the internet by white people so they were not alone.
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abagond says,
Note that there is a huge middle ground between bashing on the one hand and being uncritical on the other.
laromana says,
Thanks for making an important distinction between “bashing” and being uncritical. Many comments have been made regarding the post on Khadija’s blog that misrepresent her insightful analysis of the BC for the purpose of finding solutions for BW as “bashing BM”. Khadija is a Muslim BW who is neither self hating or ANTI-BM.
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Frustrated Guy says…
Yep, hillbillies who happened to invent space travel.
I wasn’t aware that Jethro, Bubba and their kin had anything to do with space travel. I was under the impression that it was the Germans who got both the Russians and Americans into space.
Wow. Hang out on the internet and learn something new everyday.
Did they use moonshine for rocket fuel or what, FG?
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Jeri, that comment wasn’t made by me! i was just wanting to know the opinions of AA people because there are non i can ask here! this is probably the only place i can find AA (the internet) and i wanted to know your opinion. I am not bashing BM, and neither is Khadidja, atleast I didn’t get that from her post, she didn’t bash black men at all, it was about black women, NOT black men.
”
laromana says,
Thanks for making an important distinction between “bashing” and being uncritical. Many comments have been made regarding the post on Khadija’s blog that misrepresent her insightful analysis of the BC for the purpose of finding solutions for BW as “bashing BM”. Khadija is a Muslim BW who is neither self hating or ANTI-BM.
”
I agree.
it seems like everytime you are critical about the BC or BM, you are “bashing black men”.
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leaveumthinking
Are you serious? You heard people talk about Michelle Obama and you heard them say that she was unattractive and ghetto? What is so ghetto and unattractive about Michelle Obama? She is educated, articulate, classy, and quite beautiful. She is the perfect First Lady. I mean I don’t want to be mean, but how is she any worst looking than the last 4 First Ladies that we have had. I mean they were alright. Michelle is tall, slender, with smooth brown skin, her hair is her own, with beautiful high cheek bones. And how in the world is she ghetto? She is a calm and sophisticated woman. Ummm, interesting. People just like to talk crap. It is sad that so many people like to put other people down to feel good about themselves. There is nothing wrong with that lady and they know it.
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“When I worked at the Civil Courthouse, during lunch there were a group of white guys (who looked in their mid to late twenties) sitting at a table across from me discussing how unattractive and ghetto Michelle Obama was. I wanted to correct them but I was at work, they were white and I was black (you know how that go) it could have escalated. I needed my job at the time.
I have also read comments over the internet by white people so they were not alone.”
The funny thing is though…at the end of the day she’s in the whitehouse and they’re not. I can understand people not liking President Obama as a political figure, fine, not everyone is going to like him as a political figure, but keep it political. Michelle did not run for public office, nor did Sasha or Malia, they should be respected whether you like Obama as pres. or not. The attacks against them are just way too personal to simply be about politics. It really makes me sick. I disagree With Pres. on some stuff, I am vehemently against abortion, but I don’t see why people are so nasty to him and his family. I really dont other than the fact that they don’t like the fact that a black family is in the white house. I wish people would just stop dancing around it and someone would just come out and say “we don’t want a black firstlady in the whitehouse,” and stop making excuses calling her names and what not.
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Peanut
Thank you. Well said. I hate abortion also which is why I never supported the President. But to call them these malicious names is just wrong.
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@Leaveumthinking:
How can these white guys/white people regard Michelle Obama as unattractive and ghetto? My gosh. What about the other First Ladies in the White House? Were they raving beauties? I’m sorry, but even though Eleanor Roosevelt did a lot as First Lady, she definitely wasn’t a looker. And while Jackie Kennedy exuded elegance and class, she wasn’t all that either.
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I’m a middle aged white woman, from the NY/Metropolitan area. I’ve dated white American men, Japanese, and East Indian men. I believe we date people for various reasons at various times in our lives.
I’ve scanned many of the posts here and I think it’s obvious from the posts that look like they are from black women, that the problem is: Anger.
Many here have mentioned Michelle Obama who seems to have all the trappings which many – both white and black – aspire to. However what amazes me and what can’t be overlooked is that after all she was exposed to at Princeton she chose to write her senior thesis on what she perceives to be the racial divide at Princeton. Of ALL her experiences there, THIS is what she homes in on and makes issue of.
To me this is evidence of just one more example of anger within the black race; an anger that on many levels is understandable and perhaps even justifiable, is still on many levels not and I believe is more a hindrance to blacks in achieving many of the things they’d like to achieve, and the “acceptance” if you will that they’d like to have. I believe this anger is pervasive among blacks, and if not evident on the surface, is when the surface is scratched just a bit.
Now as far as white men dating/marrying black women, why on earth would any man (or woman for that matter) of any race date someone who carries such anger concerning the very basics of their existence and the “hand they’ve been dealt” or the slights – either real or imagined – that they feel they get from every sector? The anger is one thing, but the basis of that anger is a chasm that is too big a divide for anyone to even want to attempt to close. Some of the posts here from the black women are SO angry at white men for not dating black women, and THAT’S the anger that will prevent white men from even looking in your direction…or after they have looked decide “no thanks, I can’t truck that”!
When a person’s race is the basis of, or the filter that everything in their life is run through, when race is all a person sees when they look at themselves and others, it’s a hindrance that others of different races can’t deal with, and unfortunately it’s a filter that the black race uses more often and quite frankly more manipulatively than any other group.
It’s unfortunate that “Civil Rights” turned in to “Black Power”, because I believe blacks had more whites in their corner before that transition took place; when it became “Black Power” is I believe when, you started to lose us, as your justified anger under the “Civil Rights” movement, turned to all out resentment under the “Black Power” movement. I can’t deal with a resentment like that, nor can other whites, especially when it’s primarily directed at MY race, for injustices both real and imagined.
So with that being said, and with so many other available, beautiful women of ALL races inhabiting this planet, why-oh-why would any man – particularly those who can have their pick as white men do – choose to date angry, resentful, and yes girls, even racist as evidenced by many of the posts here – black women? They wouldn’t.
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yeah, first ladies aren’t supposed to be drop-dead-gorgeous, they’re supposed to be conservative in both looks and dress. that is why JFK married Jackie and not Marilyn. Michelle Obama isn’t supposed to look like Naiomi Campbell she is supposed to look conservative and she does.
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Darlene, I think people are angry at the system which displaces blacks more than anything. I think they are angry at the fact that most whites benefit from the system and refuse to accept that they do in fact benefit from the fact that they are white in a white-dominate world.
It is the fact that far too many whites refuse to acknowledge the inequity in the world and can’t see past their own privilege. That some think that everything is okay now and racism is a thing of the past. That is something I can’t tolerate. All I ask for a bp is for honesty and understanding. I would just like for more whites to admit “yes, I do have a privilege from being white even in this day and age. Yes racism is still very prevalent and then work to alleviate that.” Until more whites start admitting these things, then, sorry, but there is nothing wrong with blacks speaking out against these injustices.
Michelle Obama had the right to write what she did about her Princeton experience. Maybe if more people were willing to listen and take these things into consideration and try and see things from a bp perspective for once then there wouldn’t be anything to write/complain about. I understand where you’re coming from, but until things start to change on a global scale then people will continue to call it like it is…
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Darlene,
I find YOUR critical ANTI-BW comments (that focus SOLELY on the so called “anger of BW/BP”) and YOUR negative/misguided conclusions telling “why-oh-why would any man – particularly those who can have their pick as white men do – choose to date angry, resentful, and yes girls even racist as evidenced by many of the posts here – black women?”.
Abagond has set up this blog as an OPEN space where BW and BP can HONESTLY discuss/analyze the Black experience in America. The FACTS of this experience can be UGLY and hard for SOME Whites like you to accept without MISREPRESENTING what Blacks are sharing or drawing WRONG conclusions.
As far as the BW on this blog who prefer WM/NON-BM are concerned, we are able to be HONEST about the REAL ANTI-BW RACISM/HATE we’ve faced in American society without letting it prevent us from having POSITIVE/HEALTHY relationships with those WM/NON-BM who care about us and haven’t allowed ANTI-BW RACISM/HATE keep them from pursuing relationships with us.
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It’s unfortunate that “Civil Rights” turned in to “Black Power”, because I believe blacks had more whites in their corner before that transition took place; when it became “Black Power” is I believe when, you started to lose us, as your justified anger under the “Civil Rights” movement, turned to all out resentment under the “Black Power” movement.
Whippty do. Yes those coloureds are sure ungrateful!
I can’t deal with a resentment like that, nor can other whites, especially when it’s primarily directed at MY race, for injustices both real and imagined.
Then don’t!
So with that being said, and with so many other available, beautiful women of ALL races inhabiting this planet, why-oh-why would any man – particularly those who can have their pick as white men do – choose to date angry, resentful, and yes girls, even racist as evidenced by many of the posts here – black women? They wouldn’t.
Translation: If those blacks were more grateful, docile and humble, then whites would love them more!
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Dear Darlene,
Please go straight to hell. And take all your blind white female privilege with you.
Sincerely, The “angry” Black people
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Darlene
I am curious. Have you taken the time to read the comments that have been said against Michelle Obama? Well I have. I went on youtube to read the comments that were directed at her when she did the Democratic Convention. She was called a gorilla, a monkey, people threatened her life. One man said he had enough bullets to kill all the “spooks” in his neighborhood. People called her and her entire family the N word. Close to 7 months ago, I saw someone post a photograph of Michelle Obama looking like a monkey. There were thousands of comments similar to this on youtube. Not that she complained about racism too much. No. Threats and insults. Now explain something to me. Who is the one who is really angry? Have you heard the people on this website threaten anyone? No. So don’t talk to us like we are ignorant about this issue. Most of us have read the comments on the internet and heard comments, derogatory comments, made about her in public. So why accuse black women of being angry? If you were in our shoes, how would you feel. You know the problem is that people lack empathy for other people. Walk in another persons shoes. Stop sounding so patronizing. And I am not angy at white people for the most part. I pray that most of them are decent people. But to accuse blacks of being the ONLY ones who are angry is naive at best. Go ahead. Go on youtube. Read the comments. Then get back to me.
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Darlene:
I thank you for your honest comment. Understand, though, that however you may have meant it, it comes off as insensitive.
Blacks are a far better judge of how angry they should be than you are. Most whites are a poor judge of how racist America still is since they do not suffer from it directly.
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Darlene
And another thing, all black women are not irrational and angry. There are many black women who are very open to being with a kind and loving white man and they are not bitter about the posssibity of some white men rejecting them. Once again, do you read all the comments that the women on this blog made. Some are angry I agree but others are not. So everybody is not angry. You can’t sum all black women based on the comments of a few just like would you like it if I said that you were a evil racist based on the comments that were on youtube? I have to say this, I am tired of people trying to imply that black women are all evil, bitter, and angry people. And when they are JUSTIFIABLY angry, that we are somehow overreacting. The fact that you made a comment on this website shows that you were obviously offended by what some of the people said. Well, black women are no different from you. If someone calls us a derogatory name, we hurt like anyone else. And just so happens that black women are attacked with horrible names all the time. Not white women who are put on a pedastal, but black women. So how can you judge me and you can’t understand what I have been through. Many men, who were white, have said on this blog that black women are all ghetto. Do you want to be called ghetto? How would like if a black person said that all white women were white trash? Well someone made a comment like this on this blog. And a very kind-hearted women who I don’t thiink is a angry person in general was offended by the comment. I didn’t blame her. So all of us hurt. It just so happens that this is what many kind-hearted empathetic black women have to go through ALL THE TIME. So once again, before you make statements like why would a man want to be with “you angry women”, think about what you are saying?
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Darlene
And understand something, I am not angry at you. But you made a racist comment about all black women based on a few. That is how racism begins. So be specific and say something like why would a man want to be with SOME of the women of who made offensive comments. Something like that. Not an entire group of women.
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Darlene,
Many here have mentioned Michelle Obama who seems to have all the trappings which many – both white and black – aspire to. However what amazes me and what can’t be overlooked is that after all she was exposed to at Princeton she chose to write her senior thesis on what she perceives to be the racial divide at Princeton. Of ALL her experiences there, THIS is what she homes in on and makes issue of.
Yes, it was amazing. It tells you that effects of the racial divide at Princeton in the early ’80s were that distressing and that far-reaching in her college career, and life. What else should it suggest?
To me this is evidence of just one more example of anger within the black race; an anger that on many levels is understandable and perhaps even justifiable…I believe this anger is pervasive among blacks, and if not evident on the surface, is when the surface is scratched just a bit.
This is what happens when you knowingly or unknowingly interpret information outside of its context: you come to erroneous conclusions. This is a blog dealing with select topics. One of those topics is race relations in America. As such, people will comment on this topic and it will attract those with interest in the area. This is in no way an indication that the commenters here are persistently angry, or that their views are that of most black Americans.
I’ll ask a question of you (if you care to reply) that I asked another poster who came to a similar conclusion: Would you go to Steve Sailer’s blog (google if you have no idea who that is) and come to conclusions about the way white people think? If you would, then you would reason that racism is indeed pervasive among whites, and if not evident on the surface, is when the surface is scratched a bit.
But! If that were true, then acceptance will never come regardless of the attitude of blacks. So you can just quit carping about black anger.
So with that being said, and with so many other available, beautiful women of ALL races inhabiting this planet, why-oh-why would any man – particularly those who can have their pick as white men do – choose to date angry, resentful, and yes girls, even racist as evidenced by many of the posts here – black women?
Hmmm… I don’t know. I’ll have to ask my SO that question; he’s about as white as they come.
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Darlene get a damn life please.
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This post is very interesting. I have a daughter who is half Ivoirienne (Cote d’Ivoire, West Africa) and Half French/Cherokee Indian/British, and Italian. I was attracted to her father, and he was attracted to me. That simple.
I’m usually oblivious to the “every day” racial divide in America unless I come across a post like this one and read these very interesting racially targeted comments.
Either my world that I live in is too “narrow”, or my white friends haven’t said or done anything to me to make me feel as if they were racist.
On another note, as I read these posts, I cannot help to think:
The white man brought black people here against their will. Did they expect black people to pack up and go back to Africa after they stopped working for free?
I was speaking to a friend of mine last night who is African-American, about this. I was telling her that I cannot relate to African-Americans more than superficially when it comes to slavery because my ancestors were not slaves. I can trace back my ancestry for hundreds and hundreds of years back. She replied with a simple answer: Black people feel an emptiness that they cannot fill because they cannot. They don’t know what countries their ancestors are from and they will never be able to tell, because the plantation owners gave them new European last names; if any name at all…
White people and Black people are racist. And until we put the BS of the past aside and accept that Black people are here to stay and we HAVE, CAN, and WILL make a positive impact, then nothing will change. There will be a never ending psychological war in America (and even physical in the Jim Crow states) that is much like the war between Israel and Palestine, when that war stops, this war will.
-A-
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She replied with a simple answer: Black people feel an emptiness that they cannot fill because they cannot. They don’t know what countries their ancestors are from and they will never be able to tell, because the plantation owners gave them new European last names; if any name at all…
Y’know, this is a very American ailment which is really a load of pants.
First of all, there’s no human reason why one needs to know the countries one’s ancestors came from in order to live a happy life.
Secondly, most white Americans don’t know sweet f%¨k all about where their ancestors came from. They’ll tell you “Germany” or “Italy”, all the while ignoring the fact that those countries didn’t even exist slightly more than a century ago.
Nor do white people know much about the history and cultures of the regions their ancestors came from.
So forgive me if I say that the lack of “heritage” is no necessay cause for a emptiness in one’s life.
Indeed, the very American concept of “heritage” is so much BS. When an out-and-out fabrication can fill one’s life as well as anything remotely resembling truth and/or history, then forgive me, but I think we can say that “heritage” or it’s lack makes no real difference in people’s lives.
Black and white americans motht the crap they do about heritage not because they actually feel any real driving need to look at their history, but because everyone from kindergarten on up has been filling them with the nonsense notion that “heritage is important”.
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i was indoctrinated to marry a jewish woman and to feel that Israel was the center of the universe even though I was also told to be a loyal American. yet those of us jews who bother to pray we pray towards Jerusalem.
so at some point i moved to israel and was drafted into army there.
after finishing up my service, i decided that emphasis on
ethnicity and nationality was unhealthy. something of a pathology.
i decided it was better to be free of ethnic/racial, religious constraints. I became my own person. i am in liberated.
i married a black woman who is beautiful and shares my sensibilities regarding the prisonhouse of identity.
i have a site on wordpress that allows us to capture my respect for her beauty as a black woman.
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The family picture is an atrocity, they are not cute, pretty or anything but a mixed child that society will never accept. I am white, I would never date anyone of another race, and neither should anyone else. 95% of the time it does not work and especially with black and white. Anyone in their right mind would never marry out of their race. The Bible teaches this, if God wanted everyone to be alike, like some do, he would have made us all one color. He gave every race a land for their people and we have made a mess of it. Society will never accept a black and white child, I have good black friends and they feel the same way. The child will pay for the sins of the mother and father. You are just trying for shock as you know nothing of real love.
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Sonja, You just opened up a can of trouble. I will be the first to respond but certainly not the last. You may, be a so-called “open minded” person who has token black friends, but you are quite simply a racist who uses the bible much like the the slave holding racist Southerners used it to justify the institution of slavery through Noah’s son Ham.
Your thinking is backward and I can only hope you are a dying breed. My daughter Izzy is biracial and absolutely beautiful and smart. She will hopefully have the good fortune to know how to handle all the petty racists who traverse our country.
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Preach it Shai. Sonja’s comment is utterly disturbing. Most biracial children are absolutely beautiful. If we were not meant to mix as a human race, then why is it that mixed couples can procreate? I hate when people use the bible as a source to force their opinions on others. I am glad I do not live in a society with all that hate. Different races live together in peace, mix, and have children with nobody having a problem with it. Biracial children here are happy to be mixed and nobody scorns them nor are they confused as to what or who they are. I to hate. I hate IGNORANCE.
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No doubt about it. As a white male i too have noticed how few would consider to date a black women especially how often you see them eager to date Asian women. It is plain racism as lighter skinned and white is seen as more attractive. I was thinking maybe fear could be a reason too as they may be scared of more perceived crime and drugs in black community. That is the reason i wouldn’t date a black woman. Also white males may be more scared of black males dating black women. Maybe they want a smaller thinner body. If all black women had knockout bodies maybe more would date. It seems pathetic that many white males would rather have a foreigner Asian woman of color than their own countrymen of color. it does go down to the male in dating as they are the pursuers. black men pursue women of other races at a much higher rate than you will ever see a White or Asian male pursue Black women and it is because they see Black women as inferior possibilities due to internal racism I believe.
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Andy,
the real reason is because being a black woman in this country is hard. If a white guy gets serious w/ a black women, he is not going to benefit socially in anyway due to the institutional anti-bw racism in this country and the world at large.
If he is a middle-class, upper-middle class white male, and he marries a bw of an equal or higher income level, he is not really going to benefit in anyway because black women are perceived as the lowest on the totem pole
It doesn’t have to do with bw having “knockout” bodies, as I know plenty fit bw who still aren’t involved with white men for various reasons. If by knockout you mean thin and petite and skinny, then perhaps most bw dont’ fall into that category. But my definition of “knockout” body is any body type that is within a healthy range and in shape. That can be small and petite or thick and curvaceous or muscular type.
It’s just a status thing. black women are in the lowest position in society and possibly the world. Why would someone who is at the top of the totem pole want to lose that status??? it’s that simple
Also there are bw who prefer not to date wm for the opposite reason. Most white men are so wrapped up in their white privilege, that they don’t even understand the concept of what white privilege is. They just think that’s the way it is for everyone. They can’t understand the stress of being a bw in this white supremacist culture. They don’t understand what its like to be treated as invisible and insignificant, unless you mess up, then you’re vilified to no end. They can’t understand what its like to have to work twice as hard to get half the respect. Or to be made to feel unfeminine or unf*ckable just because of your race. To have to deal with these stereotypes of being angry, baby mamas, welfare queens and just ugly on a daily basis. To feel alienated, unvalued and unappreciated.
No, to some white men this is all in black women’s minds…we’re just being silly. Why??? because most white men in the western world have the privilege of not recognizing they have privilege. Until this is understood there will never be a vast number of bw/wm marriages. NEVER. I don’t care what the media says…the truth is bw/wm in droves will never come together and unite. Unless its by force…sorry
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how can bw and wm be expected to come together in droves when society and history has set up the two groups to be adversaries. Bw/wm have been in this country long for people to realize by now that by and large the two groups do not get along well.
I’m not saying in terms of individuals, the relationship can’t work because they can and do. But in terms of our culture. White american culture and western culture is set up to be the adversary of black american culture and black cultures world-wide. You really can’t just wipe away the history and expect the two groups to live in some happy, child of the universe kind of way. because my experience as a bw and walking in my shoes everyday puts me in a different position, that by and large most white males can’t understand.
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For every Robert DeNiro, there are six John Mayer’s and four Don Imuses. That coupled with the fact that most people prefer their own race anyway makes these relationships that much more rare.
Its just not goint to happen in droves, I’m sorry. I was reading an issue of Jet from the 1950s and I was surprised that the interracial issue was STILL being talked about. The article was “negro women with white husbands.” So i’m thinking man…we’ev been having the same discussion for nearly sixty years and STILL nothing has changed. hmmm…
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Peanut:
The issue of race in America has long been a thorny issue and I do not expect it to be solved in totality anytime soon.
I think the problem emanates mostly from white racism but I also feel that black people maintain separatism in reaction. It takes brave individuals regardless of race or religion to cross the racial barrier.
A current Revlon commercial depicts Halle Berry. At the end, she is seen having an intimate dinner in a restaurant with a black man. The reality of the situation as you know, she has ended up with a Canadian white man with whom she has finally had a child. So the commercial does not reflect reality. Who was responsible? Revlon, Berry????
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thats interesting that u mention that. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MHlvDdBNuSI
I think they partly did that because Halle is considered to be a black woman. If it was a bm in a cologne commercial, I’m sure he would have been partnered with a latina woman. That is what I see more than anything else in the media. Which leads me to believe that…its really only certain groups that people are uncomfortable w/ in the interracial dating arena.
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Peanut, you are correct however what people who like to interraically date have to realize is that interraical dating is suppose to be rare considering that most people are raised among their own race. And honestly the main attraction for interraicial dating is the fact that you get something different or exotic. Most people want what is comfortable, simmilar and familiar. Not different skin color and different culture. Only people who want something different or people who want something that everyone else does not have want other. Including myself. And there is nothing wrong with that. But I understand that there are not enough people like me out there.
That need for same explains why in a highly developed western world with so many races interacting there are few relationships between the races. You would think it would ba a hotbed of racemixing. Racism, clannishness and a genuine preference for same is the reason for the lack of open interracial relationships. There is also fear of rejection from socitiey too.
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From peanut:
For every Robert DeNiro, there are six John Mayer’s and four Don Imuses. That coupled with the fact that most people prefer their own race anyway makes these relationships that much more rare.
Its just not goint to happen in droves, I’m sorry. I was reading an issue of Jet from the 1950s and I was surprised that the interracial issue was STILL being talked about. The article was “negro women with white husbands.” So i’m thinking man…we’ev been having the same discussion for nearly sixty years and STILL nothing has changed. hmmm…
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Poire or Peanut not sure who wrote the last paragraph. But Halle ending up with a Black man in that commercial is just fine with me because she is more known to date and marry black men. She probrably requested that the man be black. Halle is very race consious and sensitive to the fact that the Black community doesn’t look favoriable on her relationship with her current lover.
p0ire
Peanut:
The issue of race in America has long been a thorny issue and I do not expect it to be solved in totality anytime soon.
I think the problem emanates mostly from white racism but I also feel that black people maintain separatism in reaction. It takes brave individuals regardless of race or religion to cross the racial barrier.
A current Revlon commercial depicts Halle Berry. At the end, she is seen having an intimate dinner in a restaurant with a black man. The reality of the situation as you know, she has ended up with a Canadian white man with whom she has finally had a child. So the commercial does not reflect reality. Who was responsible? Revlon, Berry????
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Nita,
Glad you pointed this out for me. “Halle is very race consious and sensitive to the fact that the Black community doesn’t look favoriable on her relationship with her current lover.”
Very true and quite prejudice.
To Peanut,
Just wanted to point out. I am married to a Black Brazilian woman who is quite successful. She was successful in Brazil working in Public Relations, moved to the U.S.A. and took a job as a hostess while learning English. (I speak Portuguese) Three years later she is working for a Multinational company in advertising with MAJOR brand names and makes more money than I do. She did this on her own merit as a strong independent woman. Of course, I like to think it was also because she had a supportive husband as well. So…. three years ago it is possible to say that, “I was at a disadvantage” for marrying and supporting my wife with all sorts of social stigmas & barriers (for those who judged me and her based on superficial observations). Today she is a successful professional in the global market of advertising who stands on her own merit. (hey, I’m just the hubby.)
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I’ve noticed the same, well in England anyway. The P Diddy commercial, where every woman around him is anything but black. I haven’t seen the Revlon commercial.
Halle may be too aware of what the black community thinks but in the bigger picture they are small time compared to the larger white audience.
I would have thought the target audience are white women who god forbid would feel alienated. Halle appeals to whites as well, even safer with a black man.
The white community is just as critical of Halle’s interracial relationship.
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By the way, happy International Day of the Woman to all the women who come in here to abagonds blog
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LOL – my “wife” reminded me of this! (I wonder if this is a Brazilian phenonmen or how many other ‘internationally’ influenced people are aware of this.) -lol
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Nita,
Halle Berry is not dating black men currently. She had some bad luck there. Her child is the product of her relationship with Gabriel Aubry a blond blue eyed model from Canada. It is impossible for us to know what her relationship is with Aubry though they appear to be happy in photos. Berry remains strongly committed to the Black community but she has decided to act independently of any racial community dictates (as did Aubry), white or black. She has followed her heart and has been rewarded.
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andy says,
No doubt about it. As a white male i too have noticed how few would consider to date a black women especially how often you see them eager to date Asian women. It is plain racism as lighter skinned and white is seen as more attractive. I was thinking maybe fear could be a reason too as they may be scared of more perceived crime and drugs in black community. That is the reason i wouldn’t date a black woman. Also white males may be more scared of black males dating black women. Maybe they want a smaller thinner body. If all black women had knockout bodies maybe more would date. It seems pathetic that many white males would rather have a foreigner Asian woman of color than their own countrymen of color. it does go down to the male in dating as they are the pursuers. black men pursue women of other races at a much higher rate than you will ever see a White or Asian male pursue Black women and it is because they see Black women as inferior possibilities due to internal racism I believe.
laromana says,
andy,
Thanks for clearly demonstrating that ANTI-BW COWARDICE and ANTI-BW RACISM are the MAIN reasons that MOST American men (especially MOST American WM) CHOOSE NOT to SERIOUSLY DATE or MARRY BW while, at the same time, CHOOSING to DATE/MARRY OTHER NON/WW.
It’s not that OTHER NON/WW are better/more acceptable than BW or that ALL BW are ACTUALLY the bottom of the totem pole/inferior/ugly/ghetto/undesirable/unacceptable or fit ANY of the MANY ANTI-BW LIES/MYTHS/STEREOTYPES but that MOST American men are/have CHOSEN to believe ANTI-BW LIES/MYTHS/STEREOTYPES and REJECT BW on the basis of them.
There are OBVIOUSLY MANY BW who are beautiful, intelligent, desirable, accomplished and, in MANY WAYS, DON’T conform to the ANTI-BW LIES, MYTHS, and STEREOTYPES promoted HISTORICALLY in American culture/media.
Although MOST American men CONTINUE to CHOOSE to believe ANTI-BW LIES, MYTHS, and STEREOTYPES, there are SOME American men who are SERIOUSLY DATING/MARRYING “real life” BW and KNOW the POSITIVE TRUTHS about them.
As MORE American men (including MORE American WM) who are attracted to BW make the CHOICE to REJECT ANTI-BW LIES, MYTHS, and STEREOTYPES, there will be MORE American WM who will appreciate Black beauty and will be MORE OPEN/WILLING to SERIOUSLY DATE/MARRY BW.
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Shai,
Halle Berry does not need to be currently dating Black men to be in a commercial with them. To put her exclusively in commercials with white men just because she is with one now would be considered typecasting by any actor.
Just think of Robert DeNiro and the fact that he is rarely opposite a Black woman in his films. Look at Chris Noth, has dated Black woman and is currently the father of a biracial son. But you rarely see him in films opposite a Black woman. These actors might consider that typecasting.
It’s just a commercial and tv does not represnt real life situations. Besides we need to see more black couples represented on screen anyway. I’m happy for Halle’s personal successes.
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I think I would approach more black women if I didn’t think I would get shot down. Also I think there is a cultural difference that might be hard to get past. I read abagonds posts and wonder if this is how most black women feel about white men, if so there would be no point in trying, especially if they think that I think I’m better then them because of race, which I don’t. It would be hard to have a relationship with someone if the entire time we are together, I was worried that she thinks that I’m judging her because she is black.
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O’ Dochartaigh,
Please don’t base your ideals of Black women on the posts from the women on Abagonds site. Black women are very diverse. Many of us a attracted to White men but we fear rejection from you guys too. We like when men approach us. you have to be respectful and watch her behaivor before you approach her to see how she responds to the men around her first. I’m currently in the beginning stages of romance with a German guy and we have no problems discussing any and all topics including race. Although race does not come up often because we are to busy discussing, gardening, animals, work and skiing, etc.
You just need to find the right woman for O’ Dochtaigh. Have you tried online dating websites that are exclusively interracial? Have you asked Black women out in person?
Nita
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To Nita
I dated a biracial girl in high school, but racial issues are not usually on the mind of the average 16 year old. That was like 7 or 8 years ago and I haven’t really had an opportunity to since then. Plus I live in Appalachian Ohio, there aren’t very many people of color in these hills LOL, so it is kind of difficult.
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Ó Dochartaigh says,
I think I would approach more black women if I didn’t think I would get shot down. Also I think there is a cultural difference that might be hard to get past. I read abagonds posts and wonder if this is how most black women feel about white men, if so there would be no point in trying, especially if they think that I think I’m better then them because of race, which I don’t. It would be hard to have a relationship with someone if the entire time we are together, I was worried that she thinks that I’m judging her because she is black.
laromana says,
Ó Dochartaigh,
You don’t need to be “afraid” to approach a BW as long as you treat us like NORMAL, INDIVIDUAL HUMAN WOMEN.
Also, BW are learning that MOST EUROPEAN WM are MORE OPEN to establishing SERIOUS DATING and/or MARRIAGE relationships with BW and tend to treat BW differently/in a more positive manner in relationships than MOST AMERICAN WM.
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Good points , Nita and Laromana
Actualy, this blog of abagond runs the gamet of opinions from black woman about dating white men.All you have to do is really listen to them. Ive definitly revised my opinion of what I thought I might hear in general on here. You get past initial preconceived ideas and there are a number of very interesting and diverse female opinions of black women dating white men. And I hope it would be the same in reverse about black men dating white women.
I dont think the males chances with females in general are extremly hich odds unless you are a celebrity or rich or extremly handsome.We definitly have to have some kind of serious effort to reach out and show who we are, and demonstrate respect and interest, to win over a females attention.
I do understand there are a lot of surface opinions in American society that might make all of the races have preocuptions about interracial dating.
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Nita,
I think there needs to be more examples of “mixed” couples in commercials and media. So much so that we do not think so obsessively about it …that is except for the diehard separatists. Robert DeNiro and Robert Redford should be seen with more Black or Hispanic women in romantic sequences without reference to race. If Hollywood had this approach, more Black actors could play any part they wanted as opposed to being type cast.
This is the hope of many Black actors who have the talent but not the option. Many want to play Shakespeare but not necessarily Othello. Oddly the BBC often ignores race and casts talent meaning any color works for the part.
This society is culturally segregated which I find unhealthy. Race is a narcotic . On the black side and the nebulous white side too. A more perfect Union, means we can interact however want to in society. That does mean we can ignore race but it slowly becomes less central.
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white men should be nicer to bw period. Too many white men are just downright rude to bw. either ignore you, or never have anything positive to say. that is why these relationships are so low.
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and stop perpetuating neg bw myths
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In my study of history many white men have always loved black women just was much as white women have always love black men. and could see themselves being with them. The problem is society has established that it is wrong to date outside of your race. Because white men are suppose to be the “dominating figures” so much is expected of them. They have always been required to deny themselves that one pleasure. For a white man to openly love a black woman could mean political and social suicide- a sacrifice most of them are not willing to make.
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A good number of white men see themselves as the kings of the universe. they go about America impervious to the feelings of anybody else unless it impacts their immediate family.
It will take a lot of training on the part of parents to change how their boys’ approach black women, and women in general. But don’t hold your breath, mothers and fathers have both failed miserably as guides
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“A good number of white men see themselves as the kings of the universe. they go about America impervious to the feelings of anybody else unless it impacts their immediate family.
It will take a lot of training on the part of parents to change how their boys’ approach black women, and women in general. But don’t hold your breath, mothers and fathers have both failed miserably as guides”
I agree it will take alot of deprograming. I just find it odd that somehow every negative trait magically gets pinned on bw. We’re loud, we’re angry, we’re ugly, we’re all morbidly obese, we’re unfriendly…”its our fault wm don’t approach us.” all this and racism has nothing to do with it…right??? gimme a break, really gimme a break. its just tiring and i get tired of these negative perceptions. i’m gettin real tired of all these news media pointing out how supposedly “single and unhappy,” we all are. then at the same time telling us to “go get a white man.” I’m offended by that.
White men do not solve all black women’s problems and they are CERTAINLY NOT our saviors…not in the least. I’m offended that the media keeps circulating this nonsense. we have a right to prefer our own culture, everyone else does…if wm want bw they can pursue, because i sure as hell aint chasing after em.
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Wm do not solve a problem. Matter of fact, a relationship is all about finding an individual who meets your requirements culturally and socially. A relationship is about discretion. That is challenge regardless of race.
I love black women but that hardly means I would be with simply any black woman (or white or asian woman).
I don’t think the onus is on bw. as said earlier there are all kinds of bw as well as wm. you do not have to chase after any man. there are places where one can meet on a more or less level playing field.
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There is nothing wrong with leaving your options open. I certainly wouldn’t sit around waiting on a black man when that is not what I primarily attract. For what?
Black men aren’t the answer to everything either. No earthly man is.
My advice is to be with whomever makes you happy.
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I’m late but I’ll add my opinion. I think that many white men stereotype black women. I’ve heard some say the reason why they won’t date black women because we are ghetto, ugly, fat, and ungroomed. These are all negative black female stereotypes that a lot of men in general use to make excuses for not dating us. Just like abagond said in his post one time, that many racist people notice the black women that do fit the negative stereotypes. They many times ignore the ones that don’t. Sometimes, they get mad when you don’t fit into those ugly stereotypes. So all black women get lumped into this big negative group.
I’ve heard some black women say that black women should open up to dating interracially. I personally support interracial dating for black women. At the same time, you can’t ignore the fact that many non black men in this country are racist towards black women and have negative views about us. This is not just white men either. I’ve heard some Latin and Asian men say the same negative things. I want to see black women be open to good men of all races, but I don’t want to see them get hurt by racist non black men either. I’m not saying all non black men in this country are racist, but many of them are. I feel that the interracial bloggers for black women should address some of these concerns for black women that want to date non black men.
I want to say also that I don’t want to sound completely negative because I’ve heard that white men from other countries are more open to black women. I think many women that complain about being ignored by white men are talking mainly about the ones in America. I will say from my experience too, that some do seem like they ignore us and don’t view us as real women. This is not everyone’s experience but I know many black women have had the same experiences. I just wanted to share my view.
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“I feel that the interracial bloggers for black women should address some of these concerns for black women that want to date non black men.”
Shim, Id be happy to give my opinion.Ive been biracialy married for 23 years so I guess I fit into the person you are asking.
First, it hurts me to think that any black woman on here is not being aprecieted by, or feels they are not being aprecieted by non black males. Because I am a white male who loves black females , and their beauty and culture and social way to relate. I apreciete all shades of colors and all shapes and sizes (for sure within my paramaters of beauty, meaning yes, some women Im not attracted to and many not attracted to me I asure you, and, beleive me, some woman I didnt notice at first, sang something or changed their look and I was floored and it was too late ahhhhh) and ways black women wear their hair and how they look and dress.It grabs my attention.
I cant speak for any other non black male and how they feel about black women.But , of course you have the racist or prejudiced non black male, and, you dont want to deal with him anyway. Especialy if one of these idiots is only looking for black sex. And if not , of course their atitudes are going to be stand offish.
Im not sure what the media is feeding you all in the states since I dont live there now. All I can say is real men arnt affected by media trends and you definitly want to have your antenna up for a real man.
I tend to think that there could be lots of non black males who are interested in black females but are just too shy to make a move. I think lots of men in general are shy about women and then the rest are serious dogs.
Society in the USA , unfortunatly is overly sensitive to race and sex.And , yes , there are non black males who get their signals from that and shy away.
You know yourself, you got to keep your antenna up for a good man , period, who you feel could be interested in you for you.
You never know when it could come from left feild.
I dont know how to say this with out getting some flak from someone, but, in Brazil where I live, I dont think there are many black women who would turn me down for a date because I am white and represent the white slave past.They would because Im American more than I am white male, or because of age or looks.
It just isnt an issue, and, I admit, quite a few women on here have shown they are open to the right man of any color. But, its a fact in the American interracial dynamic that those issues come up, and it acts like a trip rope for people getting together.
And I feel for all you who have to have bad feelings about the process because of racism and media put down on one end and preasures from society on the other end from all sides.
Maybe all you have to do is go hang out with some jazz musicians…..ok I am joking
You all know anyway that it is hard to good a good hookup with any male out there. They are mostly dogsahhhhhh
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i’m sorry i just wanted to add. I HATED HATED that phony car scene in Crash where the bw (Thandie Newton) gets in a car crash and the white cop (matt dillon) the one who formerly molested her during the strip search helps her out of the accident. Ofcourse, the white male antagonist molester HAS to be put in a positive light and be the “savior,” to de po black women…AGAIN!
That was the phoniest mess I’d ever seen…really lol. I’ve never known white men to be saviors or even give two sh*ts to the wind about bw ever. Never throughout history, bm barely care about bw.
I just HATE that little fantasy hollywood has of “saving” the pretty, light-skinned bw from her the “harsh realities,” of being black! Ha! More often than not wm contribute more than any other group to the misery and “harsh realities,” of being black. Then black women are supposed to turn around and run after and WORSHIP white men…hah! I don’t think so… please
MOST bw do NOT worship white men in anyway!
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Nita, poire, Christine, peanut, islandgirl, and Shim,
Your comments regarding how BW are treated by WM/NON/BM and how this treatment can be improved are excellent.
B.R. ,
Thanks for your empathetic, PRO-BW comments coming from the perspective of a man in a long term WM/BW marriage.
Although it seems like wishful thinking, I wish that WM/NON-BM who are GENUINELY interested in SERIOUS DATING and/or MARRIAGE relationships with BW would be more willing/open to ACTIVELY PURSUING us and join us in DEBUNKING ANTI-BW LIES, MYTHS, and STEREOTYPES. It would also be great if PRO-BW WM/NON-BM would set up online dating sites where BW would be welcomed/wanted for SERIOUS DATING and/or MARRIAGE.
There is a Asian Man/BW dating site online (Black Women Asian Men United hosted by an Asian man (to support, encourage, & promote interaction between Asian Men & Black Women) and Beautiful Black Women-Thoughts of a White B’woy,
a PRO-BW appreciation/PRO BW/WM IRR site hosted by a Swedish guy.
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shim and shae
are you one in the same, two different people? If so are you a bw or wm?
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Another thing to think about also is perhaps a big portion of what we go through is inflicted upon us by our counterparts, the black man. How many times have we heard our bm, who love themselves a white woman, put bw down? I have four brothers. 3 of the 4 brothers married white women. One of my brothers is in his third marriage. All his wives have been white. when i ask him why he never date black women, his response was, “Black women got too much attitude. They are loud and they don’t know how to treat their man (how would he know since he had never been with one?).” Another one of my brothers made the comment, “White women and black men make pretty babies. Black women are gold-diggers. He even made the very idiotic comment that black women private areas are too dark for him to want to mess with it. Now he is with a woman that he absolutely despises- and yes she is a white woman. Now don’t get me wrong. I don’t have anything against white people in general. I am just making mention of the fact that he was so hell-bent on having a white woman. He has one now and is still totally unhappy. He has settled into a little life with his wife and two kids. I am sure he wishes, on many days that he had made a more rational decision based on something more concrete than skin color. I always told my brothers if anyone goes with anyone else outside of their race it should be because those two have things in common and form a relationship off personalities, not race. Kudos to anyone who can and will step outside of their box and allow themselves to find love in another culture and race. I love the idea of interracial relationship and diversity. I feel sorry for anyone who would put limits on their happiness by something as beautiful as race.
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I love the idea of respecting people as individuals. I don’t really care interracial or not. I just get extremely irritated when SOME wm treat bw as inferior or worst they belittle our experiences with racism and brush them off, then when we complain some will say we’re “playing the race card.” When we finally get sick and tired of being USED and abused and tossed aside and ignored and defend ourselves, then all of a sudden…we got “attitude…” i can’t stand it…that attitude is all too prevalent in too many men in this society.
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Christine,
That was excellent! That’s what I wanted to say but didn’t want to be to radical.
Sometimes, it’s BLACK MEN who do more harm to black women than anyone.
With all due respect, some of your brother’s comments were very ignorant.
Sounds like they would rather be unhappy with a ww, than possibly happy with a bw.
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Great thoughts from Peanut, Laromana and Chirstine/
…..
Yeah , Peanut, I thought that movie was lame also , and the scene you are talking about. It was all kind of forced.The media is a very bad beacon to follow for examples and I can only say again, real men arnt affected by that.
Laromana, I think there was someone on here with a dating site like that, and, I have heard of them.I was kind of joking about jazz musicians, but, there is an element of truth. Many white jazz musicians dont have the regular hangups of everyday white people, go up at a not too crowded jazz bar and compliment him on a solo,and ….ok kind of another joke, sorry , I cant resist.
Chistine, Im sorry to hear your story, Im equaly baffled how my wife has a huge family of very humble background and 3 of them are in Italy in relationships with 2 Italians and one Frenchman, that have lasted enough to say they arent temporary and 2 of them came from being married with kids and it failed . So at least sometimes the scales balance out….somewhere on this planet
I tell you, hearing put downs of black women hurts me, I just dont understand it , it just doesnt compute in me, and, men are missing something very special to not be open to knowing black women on all levals.
Ill tell you, more than because women are black, American men in general are having issues with women. The truth is, what quite a few of these men would like is for a woman, any woman to throw a cow rope across the room , lasoo them and bring them over and tell them how special they are.
They all, of any color, suffer from great insecurities , and are extremly afraid of being judged and compared to the uber rich, handsome,strong and atheletic stereotypes of men and celebrities thrown at them from the media. The ones who will hit hard are pure dogs, and move from woman to woman without a second thought.
I agree , Peanut, a black woman shouldnt have to wait for the “saviour white man” to come along. Things should be much more natural. And, I am sorry to say, I dont have answers, but , I sure know a lot of men who are languishing in loneliness because they are afraid of being judged or compared to something they cant live up to in their minds.
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Hi Islandgirl, your comment came in while I was writing, and , as usual you are on point
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…I cant help laugh here at some of what I said about jazz musicians
I remember playing at a club, and , a drop dead gorgeous very dark skin black woman singer I worked in Chicago showed up at the club in New York. She was kind of looking for me, and, I nearly stumbled over the drums and nearly tripped and fell off the bandstand to get down to get next to her at the break. I was alone at the time, and, I just went through the roof. The next night I took her to a Sheila E show at the Roxy that was the absolute bomb. The funny thing, we didnt really hook up, and Im glad because I used her on some tracks later on on my wifes cd and it would have been awkward if there had been a thing. But I was knocked through the roof when this beatiful dark skinned black woman showed up at the club I was playing at…
And dogs that hit hard….well, I would be lying if I didnt admit , I saw my wife for the first time on Copacabana beach, in a teeny little bikini ,and it was like a lighting bolt went through me. I was on the shore and she was in a crowd 20 yards away. I said if she walked down to the shore, I was going to swoop in like an African buzzard on a carcass…she did come down to the shore so I walked over with my legs trembling and said the dumbest opening line youcould imagine in broken Portugues “the water is beautiful and so are you….”…so I guess there are no rules, even the cheap dog lines might lead to something special..yeah the cheap dog lines but not the dogs…
hahah I couldnt resist sharing these tidbits
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..”worked in Chicago” means I worked with,
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Christine,
Your comments regarding ANTI-BW BM is excellent.
It’s telling that NO OTHER RACE of MEN ON THE PLANET DEMEANS/DEGRADES/DISRESPECTS their same race women as MANY BM do. Regardless of whether or not they marry women of their same race ALL OTHER RACES of men try to show RESPECT/APPRECIATION for the women who are the SAME RACE as their MOTHERS/GRANDMOTHERS. MANY BM don’t seem to understand that when they TRASH BW they are TRASHING themselves.
I think it’s high time for PRO-BW BM to CONFRONT/SHAME ANTI-BW BM and make sure they STOP spreading ANTI-BW LIES, MYTHS, and STEREOTYPES that TRASH the HUMANITY/DIGNITY/FEMININITY of BW.
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Wow, Laromana! “HELL hath no fury like a woman scorned!!!”
Now, time for me to get out of the way. – lol
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To B.R.:
Thanks for your response. I’m glad to see that there are white men that empathize with black women. I know there are good white men in this country. In fact, studies have been done to show that WM/BF relationships are some of the most stable. I just wish that many other non black men in this country would see and treat black women with respect and fairness that they treat other non black women. I also think black women should open their options. I think that white men and black women make beautiful families.
————————————————————————–
To peanut: shim and shae
are you one in the same, two different people? If so are you a bw or wm?
In response to this, I go by the username Shim. Shae is a different poster and I am a black female.
—————————————————————————-
I want to say also I feel that the media plays a part in how men of other races view us. Many times they like to show the black women that fit all the negative stereotypes. Some of these portrayals are that we are loud, fat, ugly, promiscuous and masculine. These images of us are very degrading and do devalue us. Another thing that adds to the situation is that some of the black men put us down too and it makes us look undesirable to other men. As diverse as America is also, there is still sort of a racial hierarchy in this country when it comes to female beauty. Blond white women are still seen as the most desirable. Other non black women are also seen as acceptable such as Asian and Latin women. Even though there are beautiful black women, many racist people in society still see us as inferior and ugly. It shows in the way that we are disrespected and ignored in society by racist people.
I do wish like laromana that the men that are attracted to black women not be afraid to act on their attraction if they see a black female that they are interested in. I think the Internet has opened up opportunites for black women who are interested in interracial dating. I’ve also heard that many white men in Europe are also open to black women. So I don’t think the situation is completely negative for black women.
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You are welcome, Shim , its from the heart
I agree totaly about the media
I know you will find your way
Like I said, there are many men of all races trying to figure out where they fit in with women of all races , also
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you know what…why can’t people just love who they love and base it off of personal interests/individuality?
I hate that it gets so complicated when this is the most basic aspect of human nature. There is no such thing as “race,” biologically men generally are wired to be sexually attracted to women. I just don’t understand how whole groups of people somehow supercede this basic aspect of human behavior…it doesn’t make any sense
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ColorofLuv says,
Wow, Laromana! “HELL hath no fury like a woman scorned!!!”
Now, time for me to get out of the way. – lol
laromana,
ColorofLuv,
Not sure what your comment has to do with my statement or the topic at hand. Are you implying that the disrespect of BW by BM is a good thing?
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Not at all: I’m just saying I could tell you weren’t holding anything back. (is that ok?) Maybe I read your comments more strongly because you used a lot of CAP letters.
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Thanks for explaining yourself ColorofLuv. My use of caps is for emphasis (since I’m not able to bold key phrases in my comments).
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very understandeable!
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laromana, put at the beginning of what you want to make bold and at the end (take out space).
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I’m Bi-racial My Mother is White & Father is Black , I grew up in A Dominetly White Community & hung around mostly White Girl’s due to the treatment I suffered by the hands of Black sisters , I tried to hangout & be cool w/ Black Females but I never get Treated right , & not to be Racist but Most of the Black girl’s I know of are Loud & Ghetto & I’m not use to that .
My Mother who’s white Do not believe All Black Women are What these Stereotypes are & She thinks Its stupid & with her having 2 Bi-racial Mixed Daughters to her Its Ignorance upon Black men to say these things about their own Women & I grew up with my Mother telling me That I should Embrace Both Black African Culture & Irish/Italian Cultures do not Be Ashamed of My Mixed Cultures & She tried her Best in making us Hang around Black people & kids who were Black or Mixed Black cultures .
I however Growing up never Got Treated fairly So I still Hangout with White Girl’s & talk & Act White because thats what I’m use to , I However Do Date only Black men & I get Hell for it From Black Female’s .
So In away I feel just like Most White girl’s when Dealing with Black Female’s & dating Black Men .
I know in High School Me & My White Friend both date Black Football players who star Star Quarterbacks very Dark Black Handsome Guy’s & we both Got hell for Dating These Black guys because Black girl’s Got Mad & Jealous .
So From my stand point of View & viewing it From A Bi-racial side I kinda Feel that Black Women are Jealous of Bi-racial & White girl’s who Date Black guys.
I think BLack women are Scared that Black men have Lost their Lust for them & In Away I think Most Black men Have .
I kinda feel that Most Black women hate on Us White girl’s because Black men seem to treat us Better .
Candace,
I am sorry you feel you were treated unequally as a child growing up. I can relate to that. I am 100% African American, but I tend to “act white” most of the time. It is not because I am actually trying to blend in with the white people. It is because as I was growing up, all my friends were white. My mom was really strict. We were a close knit family. Most of the black girls I knew then came from a family of drinkers, party-goers, mama-gotta-boyfriend- and-don’t-have-time-for-me background which meant they were most of the time doing pretty much what they wanted to do. My mom would not let me be friends with them. My white friends came from a similar background such as mine. For that reason, we were able to relate to each other. Of course that did not fit in good with the black girls. I was called weird, sell-out, white folks nigger (I don’t have a problem saying that word as long as I am not directing it to anyone.) and many other derogatory names. I can understand your choice to associate yourself with white friends only. That is what I did. I didn’t do it because I thought I was better than my black sistahs. I did it because that was the only choice I had. It was either that or be alone all the time. I am as human as the next one. I wanted friends.
On the other side of the coin, you mentioned at the end of your message that you think black girls are “hating” on “you” white girls because black men are no longer lusting after us and they treat “you” white girls better. Hummm……I think that is an ignorant statement, but you sound pretty young so you may not know. First of all, I don’t think “we” black girls are hating on “you” white girls for that reason. The reason why we are hating on you all, if you want to feel that important, is because many black guys are jerks when it comes down to the race thing. I have four brothers and three of them are married to white women. Their attitudes towards black women sucks. It is nothing that we have done to them. One of my brothers has never…ever dated a black woman, so he doesn’t really have anything to which he could compare the white women with whom he has been. He claims black women have bad attitudes, but how does he know if he has never been with one? I don’t have a problem with any person being with any other person of any race; but I am so tired of these brothas with the white girls and when you see them out in public they walk all tight-butted and arrogantly like the STEREOTYPICAL white man. They look at black girls with so much contempt in their eyes as if it is beneath them to be bothered with them. I have even seen some of them when they see black girls coming they would cuddle up on their girlfriend while looking at the black girls as if they were trying to torture the black girl with the fact that they have a white girl and not them. I usually just look at them and shrug my shoulders. I think that is so juvenile….and funny. In all honesty….I don’t give a damn. I have always been a person that would never let race limit my view of the world. I am not a racist, but I am a realist. Now if I really wanted to be nasty about it, I could easily mention the broke down brothas that I have encountered. After dissing them, they go to the white girls and tell white lies. They make it seem like we are such bad people. We have attitude. We are broke. We have too much baggage (which is studpid when we are not asking for anything…at least I never have. I can stand my own ground.),etc…. The white girls then think they have a gem… more like cubic zirconia.
By the way, you are not white….at least not according to the One Drop Rule (if you haven’t read about it yet, look it up). Yeah, it was supposedly irradicated quite some time ago, but the government and many other people, a larger portion of American society actually, still uses that policy to seperate the races. If you look black….then you can forget trying to convince anyone that you are white. Why should it matter anyway? You are black. You are white. You are human.
And lastly, you mentioned something about black folks being loud and ghetto. FYI, there really isn’t such thing as people being “ghetto.” A ghetto was a Jewish slum. When they came to America, they too struggled and was forced to live in impoverished conditions. They lived together, like any group of people. The areas in which they lived were called the ghetto.
The thing that pisses me off about that statement is the fact that people always want to say that about black people. Lucy Jane on one side of the room can be yelling at Bessie Lou on the other side with that thick Southern drawl and no one has anything to say about it. A bunch of black people, especially females, can get together and we are laughing and having fun like anyone else would want to do, but get loud at times and we are ghetto. Wouldn’t that piss you off? I don’t deny the fact that some black people can be pretty loud, but so can white people, mexican people (who for some odd reason think they are white), italians or any other race of people. Come on…when are we going to stop all of this racial tagging and stereotyping?
And since we ARE talking about race and how certain race supposedly act please let me mention that I am sick of the white girls “acting black,” with the neck rolling, eye rolling, finger popping and trying to talk slang(sounding really ridiculous)…please stop. If a black man is interested in you because you are white then why would he want you trying to act black. If he wanted someone that “act black” then he could go get someone that is black,a black woman.
In closing, I want to say, “Good job Mom.” I believe everyone should teach their kids against racism and stereotyping. My daughter is black and Native American. In her eyes she is black with Native American blood; however, she doesn’t deny any of her heritage. She is the most beautiful shade of nutmeg brown you or anyone would want to see. Be proud of who you are but remember we were all made by the same God and He used the same ingredients for all of us. He just got a little creative with the paint.
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Err, let’s try that again:
Put at the beginning of what you want to make bold and with a backslash in front of the s (i.e. ) at the end.
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Ugh, I give up. It keeps bolding what I want to make instructions… Click on the commenting tab at the top of the page for directions on how to bold. 🙂
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It never ceases to amaze me how black people proudly annouce ‘I act white’ as if it’s a badge of honor. I don’t know if it’s prevalent in black American culture, but where I’m from, we’re generally from good solid two parent homes, well brought up, educated and don’t need to attribute good traits to anything ‘white’.
Sorry it’s ridiculous and sad to hear that kind of self hatred. It irks me to no end that this indirectly give whites brownie points and kudos for behaviour that in actual fact was cultivated by BLACK parents.
What a bloody shame!
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When will people learn that whites DO NOT have a monopoly on decency, or corner the market on refinement and decorum or social etiquette.
To say ‘I act white’, my goodness I’m speechless, what the heck does that mean??
Can someone please explain to dumb ol me what on earth ‘I ACT WHITE’ means???
Anyone?? 😦
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Merrimay,
I think a lot of people who say they “act White” secretly pride themselves on being the exception–essentially, they like being “the token” and asserting that they aren’t like “those other Black people”. Sad really.
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Oh PS, this isn’t zek, it’s his girlfriend. I’m using his computer and didn’t change the info! 🙂
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“I know in High School Me & My White Friend both date Black Football players who star Star Quarterbacks very Dark Black Handsome Guy’s & we both Got hell for Dating These Black guys because Black girl’s Got Mad & Jealous .
So From my stand point of View & viewing it From A Bi-racial side I kinda Feel that Black Women are Jealous of Bi-racial & White girl’s who Date Black guys.”
Response: there is no such thing as acting white. if you go around treating people as if they should be jealous of you, then ofcourse you’re going to get a negative reaction back. I don’t think bw are jealous of anyone anymore than anyone else is jealous of bw.
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Zek J evets
Thanks for clarifying.
Its very sad, shameful and reeks of insecurity in oneself. And black intelligence and integrity. Not to mention embarrasing to hear in this day and age black people espouse that kind of belief. Wow.
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I am Zek’s girlfriend. 🙂
MerriMay, ITA. It’s one thing for Whites to look down on Blacks, but when Blacks look down on themselves you know they (meaning White supremacy) have won.
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Ah Jasmin, thanks for clarifying 😉
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Can someone please explain to dumb ol me what on earth ‘I ACT WHITE’ means???
Anyone??
Response: To my understanding to say someone is “acting white” or “acting black” is an insult and a very bad case of stereotyping. “Acting white” means a person is doing things that white people would stereotypically do such as, “Oh my gosh, Becky. That dress is soooo cute.” or for example, I have hair down my back. To act white, instead of me gently moving my hair away from my face, I would sling my head, thus throwing my hair away from my face…..Just like they do on t.v. If I have a love for animals I am acting white. If I get emotional or dramatic, I am acting white. To act black a person would do the neck rolling, eye rolling, snapping their finger when they talk being loud and offensive to the people around them and have the worst attitude a human being could possibly withstand. Those are behaviors that peple associate with acting “ghetto,” which is a word that read doesn’t exist when metioned in reference to a person’s behavior. The sad thing about it all is if we have someone who wants to do anything positive like go to school or dare speak with good articulation they are accused of “acting white” as if we are a bunch of ignorant people and being black is such a bad thing.
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You can’t argue with the facts. If WM start dating/marrying BW enmasse that means they’ll have to let their boots off the necks of the Black man. Theiy’re not doing that anytime soon.
I concur the White man is GOD to a lot of races. He can destroy a country and act a savage yet still be able to get the women of the people he has oppressed and killed. Wow.
Satan rules the world.
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I Feel That It’s Also The Way Some Black Girls Hold Themselves. Like Some Don’t do their hair and don’t really care about their apperence. But don’t get me wrong im a young black girl && I also think that it’s the kind of attitude some black girls have. Even sometimes I be in class & the black girls just be acting a foo and stuff. Even I be like shut up, it’s like they want attention or something. Idk… I just wish we could prove people wrong && ther rappers aren’t really helping ether.
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I agree with you Jojo. While you and I feel the way we do, there are some black females that do not feel this way. I feel that we are already tagged when we enter this world as a black person. We are double tagged when we come in as a black female. We always have to work twice as hard to get what we want out of life. But despite all of that, we are given opportunities. People talk about us. They say that we are loud, we have bad attitude, we love drama, and so on. I personally find it insulting to be viewed as such; however, many black people, especially females tend to wear it as if it was a badge of honor. I have even had to correct some of my family members. They would say some ridiculous thing like, “You know what they say about black folks. We’re loud.” They are laughing while they say this. I look at them and ask, “And you are proud of the fact that people insult you like that?” Of course some of them think I have this “kill whitie” Black Panther syndrome going on, which could not be any farther from the truth than it is. I just don’t believe in letting others determine how I act. I especially refuse to allow them to tag me with meaningless and derogatory identities. I don’t understand why so many of us can’t see that that is an insult. Instead, we try to validate the negative things people says about us.
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islandgirl said:
“There is nothing wrong with leaving your options open. I certainly wouldn’t sit around waiting on a black man when that is not what I primarily attract. For what?”
Don’t worry. This black man is attracted to you! LOL!
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Vindicator,
Is there a woman you are not attracted to?lol Kidding….
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“You can’t argue with the facts. If WM start dating/marrying BW enmasse that means they’ll have to let their boots off the necks of the Black man. Theiy’re not doing that anytime soon”
it makes me sick the way some people worship white men. what have they as a collective culture ever done for us??? other than make our mere existence miserable…
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white men=those of european descent
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Jojo 123,
ANTI-BW RACISTS promote LIES/MYTHS/STEREOTYPES about BW but that doesn’t make them true. Don’t accept their ANTI-BW GARBAGE.
There are NON-BW who are “loud” and have “bad attitudes” and that doesn’t STOP ANYONE from wanting to date/marry them.
Christine,
I completely agree with your analysis of the UNFAIR, INSULTING ANTI-BW attitudes that ANTI-BW RACISTS have towards us.
I especially agree with you when you say that we should “refuse to allow them to tag us with meaningless and derogatory identities”.
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for those who like to play word games i’m not talking about light skinned or yellow arabs
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White men’s boots are NOT on black men’s necks(unless you count li-
beral white hypocritical Hollywood’s portrayal of black men in “Precious”
and “The Blind Side,”that is!!!!),instead,thuggish scum-bag rappers,
CIVIL RIGHTS “MIS-LEADERS” and their fellow travelers and apologists for “thug-life” do MUCH MORE DAMAGE in 2010 than any racist,KKKer or “Tea Partier” could wish to accomplish!!!!
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Christine,black women have had it EASY compared to us black men.(How many of YOU WERE LYNCHED???)
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BlackCowboyJohn-Brad says,
Christine,black women have had it EASY compared to us black men.(How many of YOU WERE LYNCHED???)
laromana says,
You have to have your head buried deep in a hole to make this FALSE/IDIOTIC statement.
BW/BG’S have been subjected to HEINOUS CRIMES/ANTI-BW RACISM/HATE from day one.
To this day, despite the many impressive achievements that BW have, we have to endure ANTI-BW RACISM/HATE from the American society/media world and American men of ALL RACES who go out of their way to promote ANTI-BW LIES, MYTHS, and STEREOTYPES that trash the HUMANITY, DIGNITY, AND FEMININITY of BW.
This is affecting the personal lives of BW to such an extent that it’s affecting our dating/marriage rates in a VERY NEGATIVE way.
In contrast, BW are considered the “ideal man” for women of ALL races. BM have even been MAINSTREAMED in the American media world and can be seen in a variety of POSITIVE roles in many different media formats.
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^ Um so you believe that being repeatedly raped and beat is easy. Id pretty much rather get lynched that way its done over with.
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Black Cowboy
How many of black men were raped and stripped of your dignity by being forced to satisfy some grubby slave master’s sexual fantasy? We were given no more choice than any black man being lynched.
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Black Cowboy’s comment is indicative of the way many men really feel about the subject of rape. There are some that believe that the crime is not that bad and that women actually get some type of pleasure from being raped. His statement just shows how sexist and ignorant he really is. Many men do not take rape seriously until it is a man being violated (let’s say in prison or something). That is the only way they can relate to the dehumanizing and horrible crime that rape is. When it happens to a woman, they take a different and sexist attitude — sometimes even taking sides with the man.
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BlackCowboy: know your history. Many black women were lynched. Look up Mary Turner, Jennie Steers, and others.
But let’s not derail this post into yet another round of the Oppression Olympics.
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dont’ forget Celia Newsome…
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yeah i agree w/ laramona
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Great site & very interesting topic of discussion! I just wanted to state for the record that I am a biracial BW that’s married to a WM. I also have a close friend that is Jamaican and married to a WM ( who happens to be Jewish!). So, BW & WM relationships DO occur more than people realize!
Bright Blessing,
~Arcadia73~
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Why is anybody aspiring to date/mary a white man? If it happens it happens. Further more, this argument makes the assumption that all white men are educated from great backgrounds. It called self- love. Try that first and then maybe a man of any color will be attracted to you.
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Asreal says,
Why is anybody aspiring to date/mary a white man? If it happens it happens. Further more, this argument makes the assumption that all white men are educated from great backgrounds. It called self- love. Try that first and then maybe a man of any color will be attracted to you.
laromana says,
NO ONE is saying that WM are “educated from great backgrounds” or that BW want WM because we don’t have “self love”.
BW want the SAME OPTIONS to love, date, and marry good men of ANY RACE, that NON-BW have and we want ALL ANTI-BW RACISM (that has HISTORICALLY been a part of American society) to be DESTROYED so that it stops giving American men of ALL RACES, who might otherwise be willing to SERIOUSLY DATE/MARRY a BW, an excuse to EXCLUDE them .
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I think it has to do with #4:
Lack of friendliness of black women: White men tend to see black women as being hard to get along with – the Sapphire stereotype. It is just not worth the trouble.
American black women scare me. It’s my perception that they come with “attitude.” I met a black girl from South America and married her because I love the latin culture.
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I’m approached and asked out by more White and non-Black men than Black men. Most Black men don’t go for me. I have dark skin, natural hair and I have an hourglass shape. I think ever since I have been natural black men have being coming up less and less for me. I don’t know what’s scaring them away lol. Oh well, I’m happy with my sweetie. He’s British and Iranian.
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Thats why I only date Latino ,Mexican , Puerto Rican ( Spanish ) men & men that are none black …..
& I’m Black & my Mom Is Black & My Father is Mixed Black & White ,& I seem to get ask out by None Black guys out & so I do .
Its not that I don’t like Black men , its just that i never been asked by a black brother for a date , its always usually a white or latino guy who i’m asked out from.
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I met a black girl from South America and married her because I love the latin culture.
“Latin culture”?
Now there’s a nice stereotype for you. Yes, we here in South America all share the same basic culture and speak Spanish. Just ask any American… [roll eyes]
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findingstephanie says,
I think it has to do with #4:
Lack of friendliness of black women: White men tend to see black women as being hard to get along with – the Sapphire stereotype. It is just not worth the trouble.
American black women scare me. It’s my perception that they come with “attitude.” I met a black girl from South America and married her because I love the latin culture.
laromana says,
findingstephanie, the Sapphire stereotype and many other ANTI-BW LIES/MYTHS have historically been used to JUSTIFY heinous crimes/abuse against BW/Black girls by White slave masters/OTHER WM.
The TRUTH is that ANY woman of ANY race can be “hard to get along with”, have “attitude”, or just not be “worth the trouble” but ANTI-BW RACISM is the REAL reason MANY men of ALL races are CHOOSING to not approach BW for relationships instead of treating BW as INDIVIDUALS.
There are MANY BW who are FRIENDLY, LOVING, GIVING, GOOD women and NO BW deserve to NOT be treated like NORMAL, HUMAN women just because MANY men of ALL races have chosen to believe ANTI-BW LIES, MYTHS, and STEREOTYPES.
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Side note: One of my pet peeves is when people use “Spanish” as a descriptor for people from anywhere South of the United States. Last time I checked, Spain was in Europe. In every other case, I want to scream, “Spanish is a language!”
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…and we don’t speak it in Brazil, a country which – last time I looked – contains more than half the territory and population of “Latin America”.
Funny how often Americans forget that little fact.
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I think Hollywood too often portrays American black women as having “attitude.”
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Thad,
I didn’t know that there were people who didn’t know that (“that” meaning that people in Brazil speak Portuguese, not Spanish). I guess I don’t know people who don’t know that, but I assumed everyone learned that in 4th(?) grade at the latest.
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@ Jasmin –
The level of basic knowledge in recent years regarding Brazil has grown in America. It is more common knowledge now that Brazilians speak Portuguese than say, 10 – 15 years ago. You will probably notice greater confusion as you venture into other demographic areas: Generation, Region, level of education (high school/college). It also helps now that Brazil is consistently in economic World news.
@ Thad – oddly enough, most Americans don’t realize that Brazil is the same size as the Continental United States. Only Alaska makes the U.S. bigger than Brazil.
Note: (moving to the suggestion thread) Brazilians often don’t identify with the rest of Latin Americans, while many other Latin Americans look up to Brazil and seem to exude this innate admiration for the people & culture -claiming it as theirs. (When in reality I often find Brazilians (from Brazil) identifying more closely with the U.S. than other Latin countries. Your thoughts/perspective? (I think I’ll take this to the Afro-Latino thread.)
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Greetings all,
I find this topic right on target at this time in my life, because I am now willing to live my life for me not for others! I now want to date and marry (if that is to be) a Caucasian King! Its about the man treating me like the queen that I am and me reciprocating that! I have allowed society to dictate to me whom I can be happy, joyous and free with. SICK OF THAT MESS! We must be sick and tired of ourselves and address our ignorance and fear of others. Yes, Enslavement happened, but the worst kind is mental. The only why to eradicate it is to discuss it and learn from all of our past mistakes and horrors. I dont want our children living the way that many of us force ourselves too. Really, I believe our children are very fed up with the way many of us act. So many of them our learning from our mistakes and living their lives. I am proud of that about them. Like here in this blog we our dealing with the subject and healing will not happen overnight. It takes persistent effort. I am an African-American queen that has plenty of delicious life to offer one man if he wants me too. In fact, I used to be scared to compliment or say much to a white man because of the bullshit from society. Today, I look him in the eye and speak to him! In fact, a while back I told one that if he wasn’t married I would be ALL OVER HIM! This man came back to my arms and hugged me 3 times asking me what did I say when he heard it the first time!! So, I know that he was very attracted and wanted to hear what I said! Know I don’t bother him because I respect God, myself and marriage way too much for that. Hello Paul Bateman.
To all have a delicious day
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Black people in general have significantly higher testosterone levels as proven by many studies (google it), that also includes the testosterone difference between black women and white women, which probably means that they are usually louder and maybe more easily angered. Also we know that in the US, there is this “black culture” (ghetto lingo, BET, TV programs only for black people, music for black people, black this, black that, we hear it all the time)… so stuff like that separates the races a lot in the US, causing people to basically avoid each other as one thinks the other is of a different culture and will not get along in close relationships, and in most cases that is probably true. I can’t imagine myself having to watch BET and listing to r&b or rap music most of the day just because my girlfriend likes it. Anyway, I am east european and hope to meet the right black woman for myself to hopefully one day marry, although the US culture makes that kind of hard, other than short lasting relationships and one night stands I haven’t yet found the right person for long term.
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Anyway, I am east european and hope to meet the right black woman for myself to hopefully one day marry,
Really? I hope you dont, you have some real issues.
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What? And here I am wondering why I’m not listening to salsa, watching tele novelas and eating choricho picante every day all day. I’m with an individual and not a stereotype, you say? No way! Imagine my dismay 😦
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@Y:
Anyway, I am east european and hope to meet the right black woman for myself to hopefully one day marry,
No kidding. What the heck is the right black woman supposed to mean as opposed to, what, the wrong black woman? This fellow is making all these generalizations. Hopefully, no one falls for this sh!t.
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Y, seriously. This guy doesn’t know whether he is coming or going. I hope no black woman ever deems him fit to marry or even hang out with.
Gen: LOL!
It’s amazing how some whites feel free to stereotype and say the most ignorant things about blacks and other non-whites, but all hell would they feel hurt and/or angry when you do the same to them. If I were to say I could never marry an Eastern European because I don’t want to live in a slum eating porridge all day with a crude, hairy, alcoholic, communist with poor hygiene, I would be “racist”. Huh!
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all hell would break loose and*
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Mark
Black people in general have significantly higher testosterone levels as proven by many studies (google it), that also includes the testosterone difference between black women and white women, which probably means that they are usually louder and maybe more easily angered. Also we know that in the US, there is this “black culture” (ghetto lingo, BET, TV programs only for black people, music for black people, black this, black that, we hear it all the time)… so stuff like that separates the races a lot in the US, causing people to basically avoid each other as one thinks the other is of a different culture and will not get along in close relationships, and in most cases that is probably true. I can’t imagine myself having to watch BET and listing to r&b or rap music most of the day just because my girlfriend likes it. Anyway, I am east european and hope to meet the right black woman for myself to hopefully one day marry, although the US culture makes that kind of hard, other than short lasting relationships and one night stands I haven’t yet found the right person for long term.
laromana says,
Mark, NEWSFLASH TO YOU, the “right BW” would want NOTHING to do with an ANTI-BW RACIST like you.
You know NOTHING about BW or Black culture.
BW are NORMAL HUMAN WOMEN NOT STUPID STEREOTYPES.
Some BW are African American, Afrolatina, Afro Caribbean, or African and each of these types of BW have their own distinct cultures that have NOTHING to do with the “ghetto lingo, BET, TV programs only for black people, music for black people, black this, black that, we hear it all the time” that YOU mentioned.
Why don’t you get over yourself and stop DELUDING yourself into thinking that ANY BW wants to be with a man who DEGRADES/DEMEANS/DISRESPECTS BW.
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Black people in general have significantly higher testosterone levels as proven by many studies (google it), that also includes the testosterone difference between black women and white women, which probably means that they are usually louder and maybe more easily angered.
Hmm, that may explain why I spend most of the day scratching an imaginary nut sac. I love to curse and go around punching the sh$t out of people who pi$$ me off. I’ll Google it!
Also we know that in the US, there is this “black culture” (ghetto lingo, BET, TV programs only for black people, music for black people, black this, black that, we hear it all the time)… so stuff like that separates the races a lot in the US, causing people to basically avoid each other as one thinks the other is of a different culture and will not get along in close relationships, and in most cases that is probably true.
I’m too busy scratching my imaginary balls, brought on by excessive testosterone to notice!
I can’t imagine myself having to watch BET and listing to r&b or rap music most of the day just because my girlfriend likes it.
Who has time to watch any television when they are busy being loud, scratching their imaginary balls, and punching people out? I can’t imagine it either, but for reasons different than yours.
Anyway, I am east european and hope to meet the right black woman for myself to hopefully one day marry, although the US culture makes that kind of hard, other than short lasting relationships and one night stands I haven’t yet found the right person for long term.
You won’t. With the excessive testosterone that most black women have, this would be nigh on impossible. You see, they will be too busy scratching their imaginary balls, belching, emitting explosive f@rts, punching irritating people out, cursing in public, you know, behaviors brought on by testosterone! They won’t have time to date/mate/wed anyone as their testosterone levels preclude this. You’re out of luck buddy. Perhaps you could have a balls scratching contest with your buddies to make up the lack. Good luck!
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Hello,
I’m an American currently living in Sweden and have traveled to other European countries. I wanted to point out a distressing opinion about European treatment of black people.
I think a lot of black Americans come to Europe thinking its some kind of haven, but many forget that you are treated better than many other African-descent residents or immigrants because you are a fellow westerner. If you are born and raised in the West, they are going to treat you better than someone who came on a boat and is looking for any job to survive. And especially when they hear your perfect English. I’ve noticed many blogs geared towards black women living abroad telling us that you won’t face that much prejudice. Racism and discrimination are prevalent. Don’t sugar coat this issue; as an AMERICAN EXPAT, regardless of your race, you are going to be treated much, much better than an African immigrant or even someone who was born and raised in a European country. Your nationality as an American will never come into question (unless, in my opinion, you are a second-generation American, which I am because in the eyes of many you will never be “American enough”), whether you are black or white. Just because you aren’t going through with it doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist.
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O,
I agree, having studied abroad when I was in college, I remember how I was treated by European Whites. I’d walk into an establishment and at first, get a frown. But once I greeted the workers in my non-African/Caribbean accented French or German, or spoke fluent English in my clearly American accent, I got wide smiles and great service oftentimes with tales about how the Whites in the locale I found myself weren’t all horribly racist like “those American Whites.”
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Could it be that in Europe racism is more geared towards the culture than skin color? I’ve noticed this same thing around Europe. Black americans and britts are ok almost everywhere, but black africans not so. Black caribbeans are usually tolarated better too. I have no idea why.
Maybe it has something to do with the media. Africa is backward warlike famine and diseas ridden place full of wretched poor who try to sneak in to Europe without visas and who unintentionally (from their part) lower the wages while working as illegal work force and generally cause all kinds of mess. They wed their children at the age of nine, beat their women into submission, babble in public places, behave rudely and smell funny.
American and brittish black, what ever the differences, are seen more like black relatives or fellow men. We eat the same foods, listen the same music, watch the same films, wear the same clothes etc. Black american does not light up a fire on the kitchen floor, beat the drums in the middle of the night, eat humans nor wear a bone trough the nose. You can invite black american into your house and have jolly good time, where as with an african illegal immigrant you do not even speak the same language!
Black american is our friend! He plays basketball in our teams, is a hell of a musician and films star, can date my daughter any day etc. but lo behold that african bastard! He steals my basketball, yoddles and beats the drums, rapes my daughter, has no legal jobs etc.
I can take my american black friend to the finest restaurants in the city and he/she is right at home there, just like us, but those savages from africa eat with their fingers and talk with the food in their mouths!
I really don’t know, but something like this must be going on. Media has introduced us two sets of blacks. Those who are like us and part of us, and those who are not. This is my guess for the European thing.
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Abagond
Brother – Your falling for the tricknology of the devil. We are talking about DEEP-DEEP-DEEP levels of tricknology here !!
You focus is “Why so few white men marry black women” where as it should be “Why so few black women marry white men ?”
Black women are the most RELUCTANT to date interracially, thats why. White men, the beasts that they are (Look at history) will have sex with anyone even kids which is the most satanic of acts but black women, unlike Asian woman don’t worship white men and even the ones that go for the beast (White Men) only do so as a 2nd choice to black men.
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Witchsistah,
I am sorry to hear about your incident, but thats exactly what im talking about and its happens more often than not. You see in their [Europeans] eyes how comfortable they get when they hear your American accent. Also, I don’t know about you, but I felt like I’ve been super fetishzed while living here, which is frustrating because I’m only ASSUMING thats the case because I’ve gotten a tremendous amount of attention while living in Sweden. Just a shit ton of staring and men being a little too forward while clubbing and going to bars.
So I guess my question is how can you tell between being exocitized/fetishized to honest attraction? I guess it depends on the context. For instance, there is no way I am going to try to hope to date a guy I met in some club because almost everyone at a club is there for a simple hookup or one night stand. Idk. My frustration is no matter where I am, I as a black woman have to think twice about a non-black guy’s intention towards me and its bullshit. Furthermore, I feel like because I am quick to assume someone of another race is into me because he has bad case of jungle fever, I’m completely downgrading myself in the process. What i mean is I don’t even think in my head that he just might find me really attractive. My initial reaction is that he wants to try some African ass. And thats what fucking blows and really can mess with your head.
And to be quite frank, I don’t think white women go through that sort of internal dilemma only because they don’t have to. The reason for this is because their femininity has never been questioned because white women have been put on a pedestal by man. They are the standard of beauty in the world. They are the ideal for all men.
They are certainly fetishized by all men, but in terms of whether or not they seem themselves as exotic and have to think twice about a non-white guys intentions, I don’t think they do and don’t necessarily have has much guilt or are victimized for dating outside their race to the same extent as non-white women. I don’t have any white friends that share my concerns when a black girl or latino or whatever approaches them. Ever.
Hope that made sense.
Sam,
I do think its a class/culture thing. They probably think that if you managed to come abroad, you have money and/or educated so they have a bit more respect for you.
At the same time, I’m really not too keen on the idea of blaming the media on peoples ideas of what is the ‘right kind’ of black person or the ‘wrong kind of black person’ because at some point you need to be able to catch the bullshit and see what they are providing you is racist horseshit. Also, by blaming hte media, its almost like we are justifying peope’s ignorance and racism. Im not saying thats what you meant, I just think its almost like we are kinda excusing their behavior and placing the blame on the media or whatever and not on the individual. I understand being bombarded with certain images, but more than anything, I think it has to do with a serious level of ignorance and comes down to be being uneducated about different cultures and an unwillingness to learn. You could argue that the media perpetuates those stereotypes of black people, but you can only dispel such ideas by educating yourself. Or in my opinion, just think rationally for one moment. It might save you from coming off as a bigot/idiot. Another problem is at least in Sweden, people do NOT talk about race or racism of fear of coming off racism, which I would argue is the same case with many ppl who identify as liberal progressives in the USA. (better to say nothing than something that might potentially offend someone in fear of being labeled a racist), but there needs to be more frank discussion about race and racism so you know that what you thought was wrong.
Also, the comment by africanblackmilitant is filled with a fair amount of ignorance and stupidity, but I do think he is right in that many black women are hesitant to date outside their race (though thats been dutifully noted), but that stems from community pressure to marry within your race (which was also pointed out in this discussion).
That is certainly hte case for me. I’m a Somali-American and Somalis are really, really hesitant to see their daughters marry outside of their clan, much less another race. If I married a somali guy from the south of Somalia I would get shit and if I married another african I would be disown so the idea of marrying a white guy has never, ever come into the equation. Its already been assumed that I’m marrying a Somali guy and in their eyes, if in the highly unlikely chance that I don’t find one, probably someone from the continent, but interestingly enough, somali women in the west are encountering simliar problems with black women and the men in their communities. Many Somali guys aren’t attending universities like their female counterparts and what is even more of an issue is many want a more traditional somali girl and go all the way back to Somalia to find some village girl who is going to wipe their ass.
So, as I mentioned before, this is why I, and I think many other black women, feel super guilty if I find myself attracted to some white guy and I think thats where my dismissive nature comes from. Literally, when I see a white guy or hispanic or whatever non-black guy blatantly checking me out or approach me, I give him such a rude look in return. I am doing my best to get rid of the attitude. One day at a time.
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O,
Understand it’s been over 20 years since I’ve been to Europe. But when I was in France (that’s where I was studying), I did feel fetishized by the French. They asked me all sorts of questions about living in the ghetto and in the projects and about gangs and drugs, because, being Black American, I must know all about those sorts of things. Hell, the ghetto/projects are American Blacks’ natural habitat! When I told them I could not help them because I grew up in a house in a middle-class Black neighborhood (and I had to explain that yes, those DID exist in America. And I’m sure they did not believe me at all) so I don’t know about that stuff, they lost all interest in me. I was only as good as my ability to be a “real” Black American. And you see what they thought THAT was. All the while they swore up and down they weren’t racist. When we dared bring up how they treated North Africans and sub-Saharan Africans, they’d wave that off with some lame excuse about how those groups somehow deserved their treatment. How could I blame the poor, French. Those people were oppressing them in their own country!
/massive eye-roll
Also, the French people I was around couldn’t seem to get their minds around the idea of being a “real” American and not being White. I was asked by more than one French person where I was from. When I told them “Chicago” I was then asked where my PARENTS were from. When I replied “Georgia and Mississippi” they looked baffled as if I MUST not have understood them. I eventually had to tell them I was just as American as my White classmates. Hell, even moreso since my family was in the country since the mid-1700s and help BUILD that mofo FOR FREE.
The Africans I met there didn’t want jack to do with me. They were all hugged up under the White Americans. They viewed me being American more as me not being African or Caribbean. To them, I clearly looked mixed (*snerk* let me try and get away with that in America!) and my accent didn’t mark me as African or Caribbean so American was next on the list with British being the final option. But I still wasn’t as American as the White kids.
Germany was a bit better only because the Germans I ran into understood that yes, you can be a natural born American AND not be White, due to the Army bases we have there. They also didn’t dispute what I said about my life as a Black woman in America because of some stereotypes they held in their heads like the French did (I was told to my face that I couldn’t have lived in a house in a middle class neighborhood because they knew that ALL Black Americans lived in the ghetto). They took what I said verbatim because they didn’t know. They were neither American nor Black so how would they know. But yet again, they swore up and down they weren’t racist. As I was told, “Oh no. We’re not racist. We just hate the Turks!”
It was in Germany where I encountered what you’ve experienced in Sweden, or close to it. I had German of both sexes dying to talk with me. The guys may have wanted to do more than talk but the pen-pal I was visiting was a very effective cock-blocker and acted very much as my chaperone the whole time. I don’t know if his folks told him to and/or he took that role upon himself. But he was very good at his job.
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I surfing on internet. I read everywhere that the black women are not feminine. It is the white people who try to make apply their definition of the femininity on black people.
The peoples of Europe are governed by the patriarchy. They have an obssession for the manliness. We can see it with the Greeks or Romain. White people want to subject everybody (others peoples, women, animals, nature, etc.). They have to be looked. According to them, what is big and strong is male. What is small and low is feminine. And the women have only to keep silent. God said it ? The nature, maybe?
Most of the peoples of Black Africa are governed by the matriarchy. He does not advocate the disappearance of the men. He advocates the respect and the assertion of both identities. Men and women are complementary. The black men always found this normal system.
Today, the world is under the reign of the patriarchy. The African matriarchy is thus badly seen. In America, in Europe and even in Africa, it is badly adapted. The problems of the Black people and theirs frustrations arrange nothing.
To finish, there are still African ethnic groups where the women can acquire wealth, speak in public, one straight ahead to an orgasm, etc. And if a man is too contrary, they know the plants which are going to make him better.
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BLACK WOMEN DO NOT HAVE GUT LEVEL ATTRACTION FOR WHITE MEN. Black women are the most reluctant women of all women to enter in an interracial relationship. So the question is not “Why so few white men marry black women ?” it should be “Why so few black women marry white men ?”
I do not support the belief that interracial relationships represent progress or the demise of racism. For non-white people with a white sex partner, this means that they MUST see racism in a manner that allows for GOOD WHITE FOLKS. That is, white people who definitely don’t do anything to participate in the system of white supremacy….. but as with snack chips, it’s generally difficult to stop at one.
This white person will PROFOUNDLY shape how they perceive white people at large. Ramifications ? The non-white person will be intolerant of any analysis of racism which suggests that every white person is a participant in the system of white supremacy, this is unacceptable for the maintenance of their integrated relationship as well as their sanity.
Hence racism becomes ABSTRACT.
The system of white supremacy is designed to confuse non-white people. Racism is a product of white behaviour having sex with a white partner confuses this truth.
THE PROBLEM IS WHITE PEOPLE.
However, the non white person in an interracial relationship will say that racism exists because of laws, statues, codes, customs, chance… anything, anyone but the white person they are seated with and smooching. When white people address terrorism and crime, they make CERTAIN that everyone remembers that there are specific individuals to blame.
TERRORISTS create TERRORISM. CRIMINALS create CRIME. This flawless logic dictates that if Racism/White Supremacy endures, living, breathing Racists/White Supremacists (White People) are responsible. Sexual intercourse with a White person demands that the non-white person rejects any discussion of racism that implicates White folks -especially the white person whom sees them naked.
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Most of the peoples of Black Africa are governed by the matriarchy.
[Spits out beer, rolls on floor laughing uncontrolably]
Cher, you are clearly confusing “matriarchy” with “matrilinearity”.
The first term presumes rule by women as a dominant gender and there’s no place on Earth, unfortuntely, where such a society exists.
The second term means family and inheritance is traced through the woman and not the man. There are several soceities like this on the planet and many are in Africa. Nevertheless, Black Africa is far from being uniformly – or even majorly – matrilineal.
One of the worst and most pernicious forms of colonialism and racism possible is for you to project your idealistic fantasies on another people. It denies them their complex and often contradictory existence. You want to praise Africa? Great! the continent needs all the good juju it can get.
But for god’s sake, praise an Africa that really exists, not a fevered projection of your gender fantasies.
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CRIMINALS create CRIME.
Er, actually not. Laws create crime.
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Here is an extract of what I said:
“Most of the peoples of Black Africa are governed by the matriarchy. He does not advocate the disappearance of the men. He advocates the respect and the assertion of both identities. Men and women are complementary. The black men always found this normal system.”
As I know the definition of this word is enough controversial. On no account I spoke about a dominion of the men by the women. I spoke about societies where the women have a situation equal (or enough) to that of the men.
For Black Africa which would not mainly be “matrilinéaire” (in french), you think maybe of the ethnic groups who were Islamized or Christianized?
Sorry for my english.
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On no account I spoke about a dominion of the men by the women. I spoke about societies where the women have a situation equal (or enough) to that of the men.
First of all, that’s not matriarchy. Secondly, it’s not Africa – or any other place on this planet, for that matter.
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Abagond,
Please, you can send me the link on the most beautiful American celebrities.
Thank you.
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You support as other researchers that the matriarchy has never existed. And you prefer the word matrilinearity.
You said that the system of the matrilinearity was not majority in Black Africa.
And I ask you if you take into account the islamized or christianized societies.
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Most of Africa is not matriarchal (Especially not West and West-Central Africa, where most if not all of blacks in the diaspora descend from)…. I don’t know where people are getting this info. Online or in books written by white people, I’m assuming. I’ve read the same about groups that I know for a fact are not matriarchal because I’ve spent extensive time around them. I have to LOL whenever I read about African societies being matriarchies because most of Western Africa is so exceedingly patriarchal that you could never confuse it for anything but.
Women might have different roles than they might have in other societies, but in the majority of these societies, the male is the unwavering head, end all and be all.
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No, I said that matrilinearity and matriarchy are two different things. The first has never occurred anywhere that we know of: the second occurs in many places, including some parts (but not all or most) of Africa.
And yes, this is indiependent of concerns regarding Islamic and Christian societies there. The Zulu, for example, have always been patrilineal, IIRC.
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That, there is matrilinear DNA
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Thad, sorry typo
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The other reasons have some truth to them, but notice how they never seem to blame white men.
quote:
yes abagond exactly and this is something that many black women do not want to admit themselves, instead they sometimes blame black men for their lack of romantic opportunities. the reason why black women are less likely to marry cannot be blamed on black men or black women’s choices alone.
One should also consider that many white men just do not find black women attractive. there are many white men that would have sex with a black women, but not so many that would marry them. the white man who can love a black woman for who they are, not care what their family thinks or what colour their children will be is a man of respect. I believe there are actually more black women willing to date a white man than vice versa, which is a problem.
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I wonder if were a person lives and who a person grows up with (environment) has the most to do with this. I lived mostly in one city for about twenty years in Canada and there were not a lot of BW or BM for that matter. There I did not see a lot of people other than White, Native and the occasional Asian person. I also rarely saw any interracial couples, however my wife and I (I and a WM she is Latina) moved to the west coast a few years ago. Here interracial couples are everywhere and in the heart of the city it’s almost like WW and WM are the minority (there are a lot of Asians and East Indians). There are even LOTS of other races dating each other and this is very evident from the Stats Canada report on interracial dating and marriages in this country but is also evident in all the younger people I see dating. I continually see young adults of all ethnic backgrounds holding hands, or making out. I find this to be a refreshing change from what I grew up around. I have always had friends that were of other races, and we all hung out together as one big melting pot, but none of us (WM and other ethnic backgrounds) ever really got together and I’m not sure why. In closing I would like to say that the west coast of Canada (even in places like T.O. or Montreal) these issues don’t really ever get off the ground. I’m sure that in the future the words of Russel Peters will surely ring true “in the future we will all be beige”.
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I live in the U.K and whilst the interracial marriage issue is not as prevalent there are still similar underlining issues. Most white that have been attracted to me have only wanted sex, whilst the black men who i’ve met may not have all been perfect they atleast wanted to get to know me. That is saying something. I have been in short relationships with a couple of white guys before and am open to them. But I can’t ignore the prejudices that many white men hold.
I am mixed race, but most white men have seen me as black, they see me in a certain way and have done stupid things like speak in ebonics to me without knowing me. That is bothersome and I would only consider dating a white man that accepts me for me and not as some token stereotype of a black woman.
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Sam, I think you’re confusing mDNA with DNA, there.
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Jennifer, I disagree.
Many people on this blog seem to have an overly negative view of black women/white men relations. It’s a completely new thing for me — something I’ve only seen here. It’s all gloom and doom. And while I believe abagond means well, he is adding to the negativity.
I have never had any trouble dating white men or any non-black man, for that matter. I’ve always dated anyone I was drawn to and never for once thought being black was a hindrance in this endeavor. I don’t even know where this idea comes from: I was never exposed to it growing up and I’m quite glad for that. Sure, every guy is not going to be attracted to me, but that’s okay. I can only be with one person anyhow. And I have been, with a wonderful man, who is white, for what seems like forever. Which I wouldn’t be, if I had the attitude that many have here; the attitude that I am not attractive to men like him. Look around this blog and notice the number of black women in relationships with white men. And notice the difference in their way of thinking about dating vs. that of others.
I think some black women could gain from (a) changing their attitudes toward relationship prospects (i.e. noticing other men besides ones that share their skin tone) and (b) changing their attitudes toward themselves and their beauty as women. The ball is in your court.
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Back to the question – “why so few white men marry black women” – I don’t know why it is like that in the USA but in France and many other places in Europe it is because the percentage of black women is relatively lower than in the US. If the percentage of black women compared to the white population was as high as in the US, the absolute number of white men marrying black women would be much higher over here.
I wouldn’t be sitting here and typing right now if my grandfather had a problem with my grandmother being black – in the 1930s that is – and my father had a problem with my mother being half African in the 1950s. Their environment never had a problem with that and you know why? Because it’s none of anybody’s business…
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Also, re: the “only wanting sex” issue. Can you all honestly say that more black men are willing to marry you versus just have sex with you? The 70+ percent of black American children born out of wedlock and the higher percentage of single black women says otherwise. Black men have been like every other man in this regard, in my experience: some will only be interested in sex and others will be interested in more. This is not something dictated by melanin levels.
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right Thad 😀
I thin you’re right there Femi. If there were more black women/men living in Europe, there would be much more interracial couples. That is for sure.
One thing I have noticed a long time ago in brittish tv-series: there are much more B/W couples in those than in US series. Also, when there are B/W couples in brittish series, that is not usually issue in any sense. They just happen to be interracial couple. I wonder why is that?
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Natasha,
It’s all gloom and doom. And while I believe abagond means well, he is adding to the negativity.
In what way? I don’t remember him saying anything bad about black women who date white men…
As for who wants sex and who wants marriage, I think many women are suspicious about men outside their group. Because if a black guy approaches a black girl with only sex in mind, a woman will think he’s a jerk who is not worth her time. If a white guy does that, however, she might think he did it because she is black.
I don’t know if white women have the same problem. I’d say they do.
On the other hand, I am not sure if men approach to interracial relationships THAT differently than other relationships. What I’m saying is, many of them just want sex, regardless of a girl’s race. On the other hand, it is true that most of them marry within race, but it’s not like casual sex and marriage are the only options, and there are always other aspects to think about when it comes to marriage.
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My comment is in moderation…
All I want to add is that usually it’s pretty easy to tell if a guy just wants sex or is interested in getting to know you. So women who are not interested in casual sex can usually tell which guys are not worth their time.
Sam,
Also, when there are B/W couples in brittish series, that is not usually issue in any sense. They just happen to be interracial couple. I wonder why is that?
This is true: there are more interracial couples in European movies and TV series, especially, I might say, British. I know for sure it’s not because racism doesn’t exist in Europe. On the other hand, the culture is different and obviously these couples are not seen as a taboo like in the US. So it’s possible to have a British movie in which a black woman is a white man’s love interest without a movie being about interracial relationships or the fact she is black. Something like that is impossible for US movies. (Unless it’s SF – literally: Avatar, Star Trek).
But I am not sure if it’s really because there’s less racism in Britain, or it’s just different way they approach these matters in movies. Just like it’s perfectly normal to see naked people in European movies, but it’s considered a huge taboo in the US- that doesn’t really mean Europeans are “wilder” than Americans- it’s just a different way they approach this matter (what is acceptable and what is not acceptable in a movie).
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Mira,
“In what way? I don’t remember him saying anything bad about black women who date white men… “
All these posts regarding black women and their (lack of) marriage/relationships prospects and (supposedly low) desirability are only adding fuel to the fire. I understand the main point of these posts, but I believe they might be causing those black women who already don’t think much of themselves feel even worse, and also causing those who didn’t feel bad about themselves have second thoughts.
“As for who wants sex and who wants marriage, I think many women are suspicious about men outside their group. Because if a black guy approaches a black girl with only sex in mind, a woman will think he’s a jerk who is not worth her time. If a white guy does that, however, she might think he did it because she is black.”
Yes, but my point is that she shouldn’t. Because if she is being very honest with herself she’ll realize that most of the black men that approach her are only interested in sex as well.
“On the other hand, I am not sure if men approach to interracial relationships THAT differently than other relationships. What I’m saying is, many of them just want sex, regardless of a girl’s race.”
Many men just want sex, period. I don’t think it has anything to do with ascribed race in the majority of circumstances.
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My comment is also in moderation. I can’t figure out what I (or you) said that caused this.
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All these posts regarding black women and their (lack of) marriage/relationships prospects and (supposedly low) desirability are only adding fuel to the fire. I understand the main point of these posts, but I believe they might be causing those black women who already don’t think much of themselves feel even worse, and also causing those who didn’t feel bad about themselves have second thoughts.
Hmmm… You are right. Especially given the fact there are no posts exploring the other side (black men and white women). And there is not one, but three posts on this subject, any many more. To be honest, I don’t think Abagond is doing that because he’s disrespectful; I think he does respect black women (as much as a guy with some questionably sexist attitudes (sorry to say this) can respect women). He might not be interested in white women at all and doesn’t care about who they date. He also admitted he’s reluctant to write about black men and white women.
So all in all, I don’t the is doing it on purpose, but there is way too much talk about issues concerning black women and white men, and some people’s comments here don’t help at all. On the other hand, there are quite a few black women here who are in happy relationships with white men so their (your 🙂 ) experience should matter.
Saying that black woman are unattractive make absolutely NO SENSE, btw.
Yes, but my point is that she shouldn’t. Because if she is being very honest with herself she’ll realize that most of the black men that approach her are only interested in sex as well.
I get this, but I guess to some, it’s not the same. Because if a guy wants sex only because he’s a guy, that is one thing. If a guy wants sex only because he thinks you’re easy because you’re black, that’s another thing.
But like I said, telling who is interested in sex only should be pretty easy to tell and there are some obvious warning signs and red flags.
PS- I think the j word I used might be the cause for moderation…
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i am a man, a white scottish man and live in the highlands of scotland and very rarely see foreign,let alone black women.Your are beautiful like every other female for all the continents if your hearts full of love, you can laugh at yourself and respect one another,.I me the reason for W/B couples not getting together is one of indentity, im sorry my schooling was not great and my english spelling is rubbish.In the future as the world gets smaller,more people get older while more and more houses are built to accomadate there will be no races anymore, if i was walking my dog and seen a lovely black women where i live i would be first supprised but ultimately wanting to speak about where there from, there interests and of course where they would like to go for lunch,come on women of colour come to scotland and take a good hearted scottishman into your life.
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I have to co-sign Natasha W. To be honest I never really thought twice about white and black women as groups were treated when it came to dating an marriage. Sure I noticed that the so-called pretty/popular girls in grade school weren’t black but I didnt think it reflected on me as an individual. Dont get me wrong I dont think Abagond means any disrespect with these posts and Im glad he wrote them but I do think twice about the intents of white/non-black men that approach me.
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mike
“The thing blacks don’t understand is that Asians and Mexicans might be more racist than whites are towards blacks.”
Some of us DO understand that.
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Natasha,
I agree. I think if Abagond were female this post (and posts like these) would have quickly turned into a “Black men suck/How to get a White man” fest. It does seem like the experiences of regular commenters who don’t have problems getting men (of any race) and/or don’t have any complaints about their current relationship status are shoved aside in favor of the “lonely Black woman” meme. But Abagond is more hands-off in the comments section than I personally prefer, so I know that shapes my view on a lot of posts (not just the BW/WM relationship ones).
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It does seem like the experiences of regular commenters who don’t have problems getting men (of any race) and/or don’t have any complaints about their current relationship status are shoved aside in favor of the “lonely Black woman” meme.
This is true, but I must say there are a lot of not-quite-helpful comments made by white men here (in this particular thread or some of the others on the subject).
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Abagond
Why are you not allowing me to post ? What’s wrong with black people ? You allow all these white people to post with their nonsense. You sell out.
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Abagond
My bad, you did allow me to post. I take that back. Peace
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Natasha w: you do make some interesting points, I will take them as constructive criticism. If I meet a white man I will try not to expect the worst from him. But drawing on my own experiences (everyone has different experiences) I can’t help but ignore that I have come across some prejudice white men that buy into caring what people think and societal stereotypes.
If you read my post however you would see that i said that not all white men i’ve come across have been like that and I have had a few white men that have wanted to date me.
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Well, obviously, there are many, many racists out there… However, I don’t think that a man’s race can tell if he’s interested sex only or open for a relationship. What I’m saying is not that a great percentage of white men would love to seriously date black women- I am saying that not great percentage of men in general don’t think about seriously dating women in general. So black men approaching might want sex only as well, though their reasons might not be as racist as white men’s reasons.
But there are many whites who are interested in having casual sex with black women, no doubt about it.
However, I am saying it’s usually pretty easy to tell.
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That one sentence sounds really weird and grammatically incorrect. All I wanted to say is that, as you probably know, many of the men approach women for sex only. It has nothing to do with man’s or woman’s race. The only difference is that white man’s racist reasons might hurt you more, and you are right to be hurt. But it’s not like only whites approach with sex only in mind.
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Also, re: the
“only wanting sex” issue. Can you all honestly say that more black men are willing to marry you versus just have sex with you? The 70+ percent of black American children born out of wedlock and the higher percentage of single black women says otherwise. Black men have been like every other man in this regard, in my experience: some will only be interested in sex and others will be interested in more. This is not something dictated by melanin levels.”
quote:
yes in hindsight I have also met black men who have only been after one thing and are scared of commitment
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However, one thing need to be said before this gets where it shouldn’t: this happens to ALL women REGARDLESS of race! So it’s not like black women should see themselves as not worthy of man’s full attention!
Many men approach all the women this way, it happens to white women a lot, and it has nothing to do with something being “wrong” about black women (or black men for that matter). This is an usual gender dynamics and most often than not, it has nothing to do with race!
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to add to Mira’s comments I also agree that this blog is too one sided in issues pertaining black women.I mean why three threads on why so few white men marry black women?
It does make it seem like everything is all doom and gloom
for black women, but everything is ok because abagond finds them attractive, it is a bit patronising but I can see why he might want to address these issues.
I am interested in seeing topics such as ‘white women that black men like’ or ‘why many black men date white women’, it is also interesting to note that marriages including a white woman and a black man are more likely to end in divorce than marriages including a black woman and white man.
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Jennifer,
In Abagond’s defence, I don’t think he’s doing this on purpose or with patronising attitudes towards black women. (He does have some sexist attituted but from what I can tell it’s directed to all women regardless of race). What I do think is that he doesn’t write about the things he feels he doesn’t know much about (such as “the most gorgeous men in the world- many of these posts ended being guest posts by women commenters because he was either bored to write about men or didn’t think he’d do them justice).
How, why would a black guy think he knows more about black women and white men than black men and white women is beyond me. Actually, the first time I started reading his posts and commenting I thought he was a white guy in a relationship with a black woman!
So yes, I’d love to see posts you suggested, though I am not sure if “many” black men date white women- I believe the percentage is still pretty low (higher than black women and white men but still too low to be called “many”). A post on “why so few white women date black men” sounds pretty realistic, imo.
PS-It is true: black women/white men marriages tend to be pretty stable, as far as I know, more than many same race marriages. Some people say that’s because black women are more loyal but that seems like a too simple explanation to me.
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—
Originally Posted By Jennifer
why many black men date white women’
—-
They don’t. They just higlight the ones that DO. Again this is tricknology at work.
But white women are EASIER, to have sex with than any other race of women. Note : I did not say EASY…I said EASIER to bed than other races of women. This is because white women don’t have burden of stereotypes that black women have…Sapphire, etc…so they are more open sexually. White people as a race will have sex with pretty much anything animals, kids, dogs you name some white man or woman has done it. It is, what it is.
Black love is going strong
Problem is we take what white people say too seriously. Indeed even on blogs like this black people debate with white people, as if these white people know the answers. We take them too seriously on the subject of race.
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Well, africanblackmilitant, whites were the ones who invented the concept of a race in the first place.
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So yes, I’d love to see posts you suggested, though I am not sure if “many” black men date white women- I believe the percentage is still pretty low (higher than black women and white men but still too low to be called “many”). A post on “why so few white women date black men” sounds pretty realistic, imo.
quote:
yes I know that is actually more realistic, but the irony is that many people actually have a perception that the numbers of black men dating/marrying white women are higher than they actually are, which is perhaps why I subconsciously suggested that topic.
I actually believe that there are more black men that are happy to date white women than there are white women happy to consider a black man as more than a ‘fling’, that especially goes for white women from a ‘well off’ middle class background.
The percentage of white women that marry outside their race in the U.S are suprisingly low.
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Hmmm… I think it’s a bit different in my culture. Those who date interracially are often really serious about it. Men, on the other hand… There are those who want to be serious about it, but a lot of those who want to “see what is like” with a black woman. But women are definitely more serious about it (those who do date outside the race).
So it has to be a cultural thing.
I honestly don’t know how black men feel about white women, though I suspect there’s a large percentage of those who want just sex.
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Actually, I can think several dishonest reasons for white women to date black men (and black men to date white women), while with black women/white men pairings I can think of only one dishonest reason. So maybe that’s the reason black woman/white man relationships and marriages are often stronger: if it’s not that one bad reason, chances are they are honest and have a good chance of having a loving relationship. While with black men and white women there are many bad reasons for a relationship…
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I think percentage of white women who have been banged by black men is high but everyone hear is focusing on marriage as if that’s the biggest indicator. All women desire black men sexually, it is, what is.
Secondly it’s always interesting the way people word questions.
EG
White women don’t marry black men
White men don’t marry black women
Again, the wording of the question, puts white people in the dominant position, that is, it is white people are the ones who select and black people are the ones who get selected. This is DEEP, DEEP levels of tricknology.
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PS-It is true: black women/white men marriages tend to be pretty stable, as far as I know, more than many same race marriages. Some people say that’s because black women are more loyal but that seems like a too simple explanation to me.
quote:
I have a few theories for why white men/black women marriages rarely end in divorce. Firstly men are often in less of a hurry to marry than women, if a white man marries a black women it is normally the case that said white man truely loves the woman for who they are and does not care about the cultural differences. One of the most successful marriages I know of is in my family and it includes a white man and a black woman. they have been together over 50 years. the man is a cool mellow white guy, the women a sassy opinionated black woman, and quite refreshingly he loves her for who she is; not all white men like meek women.
Secondly I have seen statistics that have shown that white women are the most likely group to file for divorce and I believe more often than not it may be the white women who chooses to divorce the black man.
Thirdly black men are more likely to be unemployed and be less financially stable than white men. Most women want stability and a comfortable lifestyle, perhaps not all of the black men that the white women choose to marry offer the lifestyle they really want.
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This may offend some but I also believe that ‘some’ black men and white women’s relationships are based mainly on sexual attraction or for exterior reasons, which cannot sustain a long-term relationship eg. the black man might believe that the white women should be meek and have a shock when that is not the case and the white woman may also be with a black man for other stereotypical reasons.
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Jennifer
But this is were women SCREW UP. You mistake a a guy who DOES GOOD with a guy who IS GOOD. A guy might be financially stable and have a good job and have all the surface things that women love… but then he may also beat you, cheat on you, abuse kids. This is what white men do, just because a white man DOES GOOD that doesn’t mean that HE IS GOOD.
Then you say”black women/white men marriages tend to be pretty stable” this is just your excuse to dance with the devil and be another white man worshipping black woman. Black women would put up with more B.S from a white man than they would do a black man, she would be less likely to leave a white man who treated her wrong than a black man who treated her wrong.
So it’s not that white men are so great which is what your implying. Why are you bigging up a race of men who have historically and still are killing us ?
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This may offend some but I also believe that ‘some’ black men and white women’s relationships are based mainly on sexual attraction or for exterior reasons, which cannot sustain a long-term relationship eg. the black man might believe that the white women should be meek and have a shock when that is not the case and the white woman may also be with a black man for other stereotypical reasons.
Yes, that is probably it. Apart form racism, that can exist in any interracial pairing (and goes with the wish to “try” what sex is like with a person of another race), there are several bad reasons for white women and black men relationships. On men’s part, it can be seeing white women as a trophy. On women’s part, it can be dating a black man as a sign of rebellion against her parents. And not to mention people who date outside the race to prove they are not racists! (I believe there are quite a few white women doing this- not sure about white men though). I don’t even want to talk about “cute brown babies!” argument.
None of these things, as far as I know, are issues in black women/white men relationships.
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Plus the conclusion of what seems to be a sick obsession that some black people have for white people, to the point that many will breed with a white partner, which means that he or she has submitted to white supremacy and accepted it, is that it’s been my observation that non-white people who have a white parent or two tend to be quite confused about the system of white supremacy.
I have spoke with a great many non-whites who have at least one White parent. EVERY ONE of them has said that their white parent has NEVER done ANYTHING to help them understand or combat Racism. One non-white person even told me that her white mother refuses to discuss racism. Non-white people in these situations also tend not to be suspicious of White people; their White parent becomes the reference point and symbol for ALL White people. This has disastrous ramifications for non-white people in an environment where White people are conditioned to devalue non-white life.
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Jennifer, Natasha, etc:
The “Why so few white men marry black women” was not meant to disrespect black women or spread doom and gloom. It was meant to point out racism on the part of white men. Read the post and see.
I have promised to do a post on black men and white women but have been avoiding it till now because it would get ugly fast and become a bashfest against black men.
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Abagond,
I assumed you had honest reasons for doing so many posts on white men and black women, but as a guy who usually wants to keep things fair, I do think you need more
As for trashing black men in such threads, yes, it can happen, but it’s not like black women weren’t attacked in threads dedicated to black women and white men (by white men and black men- maybe also white women, though I’m not sure about it) and you still wrote so many posts on the subject.
If you wrote these posts to explore white men’s racism the only fair thing to do is to do the same about white women’s racism. God knows it’s rarely talked about (well, some people assume that white women are not as racist as white men… And yes, I do know you wrote a few posts on white female racism but I think you also need this one).
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Mira:
Good points.
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Abagond
You don’t understand that most black people try to spend as little time around white people as possible. See – White people love themselves so much that they can’t imagine that a black person could reject them. So all your “Why are white men doing this” “Why do white women do that” topics PUTS THEM IN LEAD, in the position of them being the SELECTORS and we being the SELECTED.
STOP IT !!
We are the HEAD not the TAIL !!
STOP IT !!
We made them, we are their fathers and mothers. WE MADE THEM.
STOP IT !!
White people are so tricky, that often black people will only believe that something is racist unless a white person tells them that is. A black person talks about racism what happens ? “Oh here goes, playing the race card thing, I hate it when black guys do that” but you get a white person to say the same thing and it get’s taken seriously, they will take us to HELL with them.
Remember it’s ALWAYS been the EXTREME black people who get things done, not the black people who try and act all intelligent and have civil debate. How can you rationalize with people who are not rational ?
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Abagond
Anyway I don’t like to argue with black people. Divide and conquer has always been white peoples biggest weapon. We are both are trying to get the same place but I guess we have different views on the best way to get there.
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Jennifer’s right about that: black women/white men marriages were the least likely to divorce, out of all marriages, according to a couple of recent studies (and the reverse pairing is one of the most likely…). There are probably many reasons why that is, and I believe its mainly because these two, if they are going to get married, are probably very much in love and extremely devoted to each other. Because, if you think about it, there are essentially no stereotypical reasons that these two would be drawn to each other. Neither have ready-made “positive” stereotypes to fall back on, unlike nearly every other gender/ethnicity.
As far as black men/white women, they are indeed as common as people think they are, at least on the side of black men. According to the most recent Census Survey, 15 percent of black men’s marriages are to white women. And only around 35-40 percent of black men get married. So that’s a good percentage.
Re: any post about black men/white women — don’t count on me commenting. Like I said, I don’t care about this pairing. I don’t find it interesting. My uncle is married to a white Swedish woman and they used to live with my family when I was younger. So I’m kind of like “what else is new?” when it comes to these unions. Besides, I’m past the point of caring about black men, in any circumstance. I know that sounds terrible, but my hand has been forced. I can’t support people that don’t support me. Unless the black man is actively contributing to my well-being or the well-being of other black women, or he is a family member or friend, he isn’t my concern.
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@Sam & Mira
About the “interracial” couples in European movies; call it European realism. It just reflects a trivial fact of every day life. Trivial because of its inherent nature. It’s neither staged nor exotified simply because most people wouldn’t expect it to be. The difference in ethnic backgrounds (or nationality/religion) of the couple will only become relevant for the plot if there is a conflict directly linked to it. For instance if the family of one or both are fiercely opposed to their relationship – that’s usually a comedy. Or if there is a hate group threatening them – that could be a sociopolitical thriller.
You would have to be born over here or lived here (I’m talking only about Western Europe) at least a couple of decades to understand this. It’s a concept that seems hard to grasp for outsiders to whom the entire social structure is utterly different in the first place. In most European countries, your next neighbour could be somebody of any ethnic origin and it would be considered idiotic to move out just because their “race” is different from yours. We grow up in an environment where real estate is small, rare and expensive. Where most people are basically crammed together in a small area and can only live according to what they can afford. The majority of European banks will never grant a mortgage loan if you’re unable to provide at least 20% own capital. So most people can only rent and to find a flat is not so easy, especially in urban areas close to public transportation and work. Even if they wanted to, there’s no way for many people to be choosy about the ethnic composition of the neighbourhood. Although in recent years there has been a trend of self-segregation among mostly religious groups, notably Muslims, the majority is not concerned about what the neighbours look like as long as they’re decent people. You can segregate yourself if you choose to but nobody would expect you to. On top of that, most people would frown upon those who actively seek segregation. Regrettably, in recent years there were increasing “racial” segregationist trends which came mainly through imported US media, MTV dating shows etc, films and not least the internet. I hope people over here are still independent thinkers enough to not let those trends brainwash the youth and let questionable models creep into our lives.
Although many white Americans might look similar to some Europeans at first sight, their mentalities are different, sometimes total opposite. The same holds true for peoples of African origin. Then also within Europe you can find pronounced differences in culture and language sometimes on a very small area. However what we don’t have over here is institutionalised polarisation and permanent colour coding of every aspect of life under close scrutiny of the public. Keep in mind that there was never anything like “Whites Only” (except for a few years in n@zi Germany).
Of course racism exists over here. Myself and most of my family members have tasted quite a bit of it throughout our lives. However, racism in Europe is more complex than in the US.
As much as I experienced from my years in England, if you go to an average English pub somewhere in a working class area you could catch conversations between British of Jamaican origin and whites ranting about Pakistani. Or a group of Asian Indians and black Africans bashing Chinese “who want to rip everybody off”. And then some Russian guy might join in. Then you might hear an all white group banging on about Polish and Russians (who would all be considered “Caucasian” by US standards). Or Black British ranting about Nigerians where a white person might chime in and tell them off because their BF/GF is Nigerian…etc. Or a group of Japanese having a laugh about how stupid everybody else in the world is, except themselves of course. Or most surprising for many outsiders, when Pakistani go on about Indians. Or the Germans vs the Dutch. The Flamands vs the Wallons, both Belgians but they cultivate a profound dislike for each other. The Basques vs the Castilians. The Corsicans vs the French. The Greeks vs the Turks. Northern vs Southern Italians. The possibilities are endless.
In France it could be a mixed group of Black, White and East Asian bashing North Africans. Or a mixed group of all ethnic backgrounds bashing Americans and British 😉
There are a lot of European men (“Caucasian”) who would marry a woman from sub-saharan Africa, no questions asked, but never a woman from a different ethnic group a few miles down the road.
It’s not a “race” thing over here. It’s a culture, mentality, history, to some extent religion and language thing first of all and then locally it’s a class /wealth thing. However, most white Europeans with racist tendencies, especially from the Western continent, are not as crafty as many Anglos. Lacking the learned subtleties, they come across clumsy, un-PC, thus easy to spot. What many Americans don’t seem to realise is that you can openly confront Europeans. Phrases often heard in public in France “T’es raciste ou quoi?” or “Touche pas à mon pote”. The element of public unmasking is always present and it can go any way. It doesn’t have to be all black against all white. I’ve seen a situation in Marseille where some white bigot insulting an African market saleswoman was called out by another white guy and within seconds a whole group of white men stood in front of him. He had no choice but to sod off, visibly embarrassed.
It’s true, nudity – due to its benign nature – is usually uncensored except naked children. On the other hand, some continental TV channels cut out graphic violence in daytime shows and beep out the n word and other slurs.
Last but not least, there is no such thing as the US clause “freedom of speech” anywhere in Europe. Most countries have racial slur and bigotry as a criminal offence in their penal code. I read just recently that some bigot went down for a couple of years for publishing hate speech. I think it was in Belgium.
I digress…
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Yes, that is probably it. Apart form racism, that can exist in any interracial pairing (and goes with the wish to “try” what sex is like with a person of another race), there are several bad reasons for white women and black men relationships. On men’s part, it can be seeing white women as a trophy. On women’s part, it can be dating a black man as a sign of rebellion against her parents. And not to mention people who date outside the race to prove they are not racists! (I believe there are quite a few white women doing this- not sure about white men though). I don’t even want to talk about “cute brown babies!” argument.
quote:
These are all shallow reasons why some black men and white women pairings don’t work out. All of those reasons are non-sensical reasons to be in a relationships with someone. If a black man falls in love with a white woman for who they are and not as a status symbol and the white woman is also not with a black man for ulterior reasons then the relationship may be more likely to work.
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sorry that sounded like a critic of your comments what i meant is ‘all those are indeed shallow reasons why black men and white men might date each other and therefore also not work out in the longer term’.
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It is true: black women/white men marriages tend to be pretty stable, as far as I know, more than many same race marriages. Some people say that’s because black women are more loyal but that seems like a too simple explanation to me.
Well, there’s always the fact that if you’re in an interracial relationship in a racist world, you constantly need to be analyzing it and thinking about it and this keeps more in tune to disharmonies withint the relationship, perhaps.
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Femi,
I live in Europe (Eastern Europe though) and while there are no non-white people here, interracial couples are not seen as such a taboo thing. It is tiring for us to watch movies with main character of different races where it’s made like there’s something completely strange about those relationships or in which main characters are not even allowed to kiss passionately.
I can’t even decide which is seen as a bigger tabboo- black men and white women or white men and black women.
As for violence, you are correct: it is considered to be worse than nudity. Many parents are concerned about their kids watching violent movies while they don’t have a problem about movies with some nudity (as long as it’s not really porn or something really explicit… Naked butt or a breast is not considered as such).
Naked children in a sexual context are a huge no-no, obviously, but not as much in everyday context (at least in my culture). For example, on a beach or something. Toddlers rarely wear anything at the beach, and it’s ridiculous to think about young girls wearing the top part of a bikini till the age of, say, 11 or 12 (until they need them- In fact, getting your first real bikini is somewhat a rite de passage, similar to the first bra- I still remember my first one). (I did hear in America many female children wear top parts of a bikini which is completely confusing to me. But I digress).
What you say about Europe is basically correct: people care more about ethnicity (not to be confused with race) and nationality than the race per se. In America, racist whites get wild because they dislike black people because they are black. In Europe, racist whites get wild because they dislike foreigners. It might look the same, but it isn’t. The main difference is that in Europe, a white person of another ethnicity can be hated the way a white person in the US can never be.
In the US, if you are recognized as white, you gain certain privilege. It doesn’t automatically work that way in Europe.
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When I said “I can’t even decide which is seen as a bigger tabboo- black men and white women or white men and black women. ” I meant on Hollywood movies, not the way things are perceived in my culture.
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Jennifer
sorry that sounded like a critic of your comments what i meant is ‘all those are indeed shallow reasons why black men and white men might date each other and therefore also not work out in the longer term’.
I get what you’re saying. 🙂 Obviously, there are many loving and honest relationships between black men and white women (just like there are many between black women and white men). I was just referring to those not-so-honest ones.
I do think black men and white women have more bad reasons to date each other than black women and white men. Like Natasha said, if nothing else, black men and white women can see take their relationship as a sort of “image”. something like that doesn’t exist with black men and white women, I think.
Also, while white men have a lot of power in society, black women don’t have that much of a power. Black men and white women, on the other hand, are an interesting combination because in a way they both have and don’t have power: white women are white (power) but female (lack of power) and black men are men (power) but black (lack of power). So being with each other sometimes can turn into gaining the rest of the control and power.
… And I can’t believe I just made it sound like there’s something truly wrong about black men and white women relationships. 😦 That is NOT the way I see things. Trust me. I support these relationships like any other IR unions. I’m just saying people in their situation might have more bad reasons for being with each other which, obviously, doesn’t mean there are no many honest and loving couples of this kind.
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I can also see why some black men white pairings might not work out, but I still support honest loving pairings of any colour.
As for which interracial pairing is more of a taboo. the black man and white woman pairing has always been viewed more negatively (ever since slavery times) than any interracial pairing, for various reasons. some people raise concerns when black women date or marry white men, but I don’t think this pairing gets as much criticism because black women and white men so seldomn date anyway. People also believe it to be based less on shallow/sexual reasons , for instance people do not assume that a white man chooses a black woman as a ‘status symbol’. you will also notice that the media is more open to showing a white man with a black woman (often light skinned ie. thandie newton) than a black man with a white woman.
http://www.fiyastarter.com/fs-pages/fs-socgen-interrelation10.html
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No, for the last time, the media is not more open to showing black women/white men than the reverse. Like I said on the Suggestions post, I saw 3 black men/white women pairings in a 2 hour time frame on TV during my morning workout. And 0 of the opposite. I think it’s all in people’s heads regarding the media: I see these pairings all the time in media sources. It’s practically shoved down our throats Although I will say the pairing is more taboo than black woman/white man, it is definitely more mainstreamed.
The only ever examples people bring up is Halle and her ex or Thandie Newton and her husband. And…? So two biracial women with white men does not equal two black women with white men. Name two (full) black women with white men that get as much press as Reggie Bush/Kim Kardashian or Tiger Woods/Elin Nordegren (I know Tiger isn’t technically a “black” man, but he is effectively one in the eyes of most people), or even Seal/Heidi Klum. Not to mention all the black male celebrities with non-black women who aren’t white. Did you hear nearly as much about Garcelle Beauvais and Mike Nilon’s marriage troubles as you heard about Tiger and Elin’s? Didn’t think so.
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And the author of that piece you linked, Jennifer, is completely biased. How can one possibly say that black women/white men is more prevalent than black men/white women when 3/4 of black/white pairings are composed of black men and white women? And nearly all of the most famous biracial celebs have a black father and white mother? And these couples, as I illustrated above, get way more attention in the media?… Does this person even know what prevalent means? It sure doesn’t seem like it.
People are just too caught up in seeing black men as the only “victims.”
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^Oh, I see the author is a black man. Wow, with that list and the explanations, whodathunkit? I’m shocked, just shocked. 🙄
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Jennifer,
That page was interestingly anti-PC but I am not sure how “correct” it was. It made it look like black man/white woman pairings are less prevalent than, say, black woman/Asian man.
Natasha,
You are right: you do see more black man/white woman couples in media. I don’t know how much it has to do with the fact it’s considered “taboo”, or with the fact American (?) media doesn’t like showing black women as love interests (no other way to put it!) It’s not a secret that media loves showing successful black men with their white wives, but not black ones. Ok, you might say, that’s because IR relationships are unusual and seem more interesting.
So why don’t people show white male celebrities with their black spouses/girlfriends that often? They show David Bowie and Robert de Niro. Aaand? I had no idea some white guys had black girlfriends/spouses until I did some Googling, or read it on blogs such as this one.
I do think media is not really interested in showing white men and black women, but I don’t know if it’s because of a taboo thing or because black women are not seen as beautiful and attractive.
Black men and white women might be more taboo in a way, but they certainly show these couples in media more (because white women are seen as universal love interests and black men do have a somewhat better position in Hollywood than black women… Well, they are men after all).
But I do believe black woman/white man pairings are often seen as more genuine or pure (if a guy proves himself as anti-racist) than white woman/black man one. This union is often seen as dirty (sexually): the man is seen as an animal and a woman as a slut (because black men are oversexed animals and only slutty and dirty women would want to be with them).
There is also a stereotype of unattractive & desperate white woman who is with a black man. I don’t know if the same stereotype exists about black women and white man (I do know, however, that many think white men who find black women attractive like “fat women”, as if all or most of the black women are overweight).
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Mira,
you do see more black man/white woman couples in media. I don’t know how much it has to do with the fact it’s considered “taboo”, or with the fact American (?) media doesn’t like showing black women as love interests (no other way to put it!)”
Probably a combination of the two, in fact, those two are linked. If more of these pairings are shown, they’ll become less taboo/shocking. And if they become less taboo, more will be shown.
Some people it’s because white men don’t like black women/white men couples, and while I’m sure there is some truth to that, I doubt that is all there is to it. After all, it isn’t white men alone or even mainly that edit magazines, TV shows, and other media sources. And, in my experience, white men like when other white men are with “hot” women, regardless of the woman’s ethnicity. Like my SO’s friends, for example, like that Kerry Washington is with a white man because they think she is hot; they see it as a score for their “side.”
“But I do believe black woman/white man pairings are often seen as more genuine or pure (if a guy proves himself as anti-racist) than white woman/black man one.”
Not saying anything about this one. 😉
“(I do know, however, that many think white men who find black women attractive like “fat women”, as if all or most of the black women are overweight).”
Really? I’ve never heard of that. I’ve heard that white men only go for the “hottest” black women. But not about them liking fat women (I have heard that about black men, though). All of the black woman/white man couples I know are composed of thin or average-sized black woman. I would fall into the aforementioned category myself. One thing I know for sure, for sure is that white men don’t tend to like overweight women. I don’t see many of them dating overweight women, except if they are overweight themselves. They probably care more about body than any other group of men.
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yes obviously the title of most prevalent mixed race relationsips made no sense, the article was a bit silly really. But just thought I would show someone’s opinion that couple which include black men and white women are often viewed with scrutiny.
Nastasha: I haven’t really done an overall analysis of the media and was actually thinking more about hollywood films more so than gossip magazines and celebs couples. I have seen more hollywood films that have shown a black woman and white man together than an opposite pairing.
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I don’t know what Hollywood films you are seeing; please refer me to these films so I can see them (seriously). I don’t hardly see black/white unions, period, in films. But definitely not black women and white men. The only ones I can think of were specifically about black women and white men interracial relationships: Lakeview Terrace and Something New.
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That should be “hardly”, minus the “don’t”.
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I also remember more black man/white woman pairing in movies than white man/black woman ones. If nothing else, in case of black man/white woman, it can sometimes be in a movie that is not all about IR relationships, while in US movies it’s never like that for black women and white men.
Also, the fact a man (black or any other) finds white woman attractive is not something that needs to be explained; while with black women and white men, the fact he’s attracted often needs to be explained (if it’s anything more than pure sex).
Also, I agree with you, Natasha: white men don’t mind seeing other white men with black women. If it’s not for good reasons it’s a score for their side way of thinking. They might, however, dislike seeing black men with white women.
As for the “fat” argument: for many whites, having a curved body figure (even if you’re of average weight) and having round hips and a butt equals to “liking fat women”. (Regardless of race)
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Though the storylines are not necessarily about interracial relationships, the following are movies which all featured a BW/WM couple:
The Rich Man’s Wife: Halle Berry is the titular character, and the rich man just happens to be white.
The Score: stars Robert de Niro and features Angela Basset as his love interest.
Things We Lost in the Fire: stars Halle Berry & David Ducovny as a married couple.
Mirrors: Kiefer Sutherland & Paula Patton as a married couple.
Monster’s Ball: Halle Berry & Billy Bob Thorton
Mahogany: Diana Ross & Anthony Perkins; Diana Ross & Jean Pierre Aumont
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Paisley
I love the movies. Black people must study our enemies. All the movies you listed
The Rich Man’s Wife, The Score, Things We Lost in the Fire, Mirrors, Monster’s Ball, Mahogany
All those films are assaults on us everyday at the cinema. However my favourite movie which was not listed is Braveheart. I watch it at least once a week. What a wonderful movie. Those diseased, foul, dirty, white people practice incest, don’t practice bathing, and then put paint on their faces before they kill each other. I couldn’t have made a better movie. Braveheart is truly wonderful to watch. I wish those white devils had stayed in Europe and continued killing one another and having incest with their mothers and sisters.
You talk about Monsters Ball. They gave that tragic self hating mulatto Halle Berry an Oscar for that movie MONSTERS BALL where she let that humanzee Billy Bob Thorton have sex with her after he killed her black husband.
Well now I’ve started I may as well talk about that other movie PRECIOUS !! which is an advertisement for population control, for eliminating the ghettos and the ghetto underclass. The white man finances that wickedness just to send out his signal that sterilization and population control is the key! The white man’s trickery knows no ends
The white man has made his counter-attack in he springs free a whole bunch of foul anti-black movies like PRECIOUS and THE BLIND SIDE. Big corporations are getting paid off of depicting that morbidly obese monster PRECIOUS on screen defiling black womanhood! And don’t forget that there are far more Preciouses in the White community that never get revealed ! Precious is on screen advertising rat poison and abortions; and the worst offense, the worst of them all is how black men are depicted! In the first ten minutes of the film we see a black man raping a child while his Nubian queen watches! Unbelievable. Then the movie continues to assault its captive black viewers by depicting the light skinned mulattoes in the film as the saviors of Precious. Damn I admire the White Man for his trickery! There is nothing “precious” about Precious.
Do we ever see white people depicted that way ? The answer is no !! I will make a movie about white pathology in suburbia, the South, or Appalachia that will blow your mind !! Where is my contract ? Where are my millions of dollars ?
And now I’ve started…what about the blind side ? BLIND SIDE…notice the name…hitting Black people where we are blinded and also trying to blind us with their evil. One has to admire tricknology and how white supremacy uses it so deftly. That movie is about a big man ape, magical negro, black, stupid, dimwit, who pledges his loyalty to some white woman. Sandra Bullock even goes to “the hood” to lecture black people about raising their children. ARRRGGGGHHHHHHHHHHH !!! We can’t take care of our families. Our women are weak. And we need white women to save us. That is every white person’s racist fantasy, some big dumb buck to protect the white family–like some trained bear who doesn’t know he is a slave
When will Black people get our fantasy revenge film where we rise up and liquidate the White man ? When will somebody make a counterfactual movie where Nat Turner succeeds and brings the White man to his knees as a proper servant to the Black Gods ?
[IMG]http://i374.photobucket.com/albums/oo188/trilby200/19639_295166153908_832623908_329065.jpg[/IMG][IMG]http://i374.photobucket.com/albums/oo188/trilby200/black-power-salute-jpg1.jpg[/IMG]
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You are truly a funny guy militant! 😀
I guess obese black woman is something you really can’t tolerate? Well, white obese women and men have been in movies at least since the days of Laurel and Hardy, Charlie Chaplin and those guys, so I guess you haven’t seen that many movies…
Braveheart? Tell you the truth, William Wallace was much more worse than in the movie, which is a work of fiction. And so was Edward Longshanks and Robert the Bruce too. Read real history and you will be surprised: the truth is much more horrible than movies!
Talking about white men depicted in negative light in the movies, have you seen the Deliverance? That should be your cup of tea.
Yes, black women and men are typecasted, the roles are very often one dimensional and stereotyped, but it is getting better. There are more and more black film makers, more and more good, solid roles for black actors and actresses. Lie said before, it is a bit different here in Europe. It will change for the better over there too.
I think they made those black revenge movies in early 70’s in which a tuff black guy fucked white AND black women and brought the Man down to his knees. Original Shaft was one, I think. They were called blaxploitation movies and if I’m not totally wrong, they were mostly produced by white men. A white mans devilish trick again, I have no doubt! 😀
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Paisley,
Thanks. I forgot about Monster’s Ball; I think I will eventually see it. But I’ll note that 1/2 of those women are half white (normally I wouldn’t think this very relevant, but since white people like to bring that up in order to validate themselves, it’s quite relevant in this case).
I guess the question now is, are these pairings shown more often than the reverse pairing? I could make a list of movies which feature bm/ww, and even a few television shows (including my favorite one, House M.D.).
——-
Mira,
“white men don’t mind seeing other white men with black women. If it’s not for good reasons it’s a score for their side way of thinking.”
The only white men I notice that seem bothered by it are older white men. But older people in general, in my experience, don’t tend to be in favor of interracial relationships.
“As for the “fat” argument: for many whites, having a curved body figure (even if you’re of average weight) and having round hips and a butt equals to “liking fat women”. (Regardless of race)”
But I don’t see or know any white men with curvy black women (although I’ve occasionally seen them with curvy non-black Latina women). I’m probably the curviest I know, in the sense that I have prominent hips/butt, but I’m still on the low end of average weight and most people would laugh at the idea of me being considered “thick” or any similar term.
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Run Fat Boy Run (Thandie Newton),
Mission Impossible 2 (Thandie Newton)
Zoe Saldana in Star Trek
Zoe Saldan in Death at Funeral
Zoe Saldana in Avatar
Halle Berry in flinstones
Halle Berry in Die Another day
Halle Berry in Things We lost in the fire
The Princes and the Frog
Dance with me (Vanessa Williams)
Alfie (Nia long dates Jude law)
….. to name a few films were black women have been paired with white men without the race being shown as an issue.
I can see a pattern that the film makers like to use the same black actresses and they are all attractive.
the only film I have seen a black man paired with a white woman were race was not an issue ie. jungle fever, was Will Smith in Hancock. As far as I have seen there have been more pairing of black women with white men in hollywood films and that makes sense as i’m sure it mostly white men with positions in power in hollywood and i’m sure they would have less issues seeing a black woman with a white man than a black man with a white woman.
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Jennifer, that’s one theory, which I’m sure we’ve all heard before. And I think there is some truth to it. But there have been several films with black man/white woman couples, at least enough to equal the list above.
Off the top of my head:
A Fare to Remember (Malcolm Jamaal Warner)
Full Frontal (Blair Underwood)
O (Mekhi Phifer)
Cruel Intentions (Sean Patrick Thomas)
And the recent Redbelt, starring Chiwetel Ejiofor, a Nigerian actor.
All of these films were directed by white men.
And none of these black men have a white parent or are “ambiguous”, unlike most of the black women mentioned above: these are clear-cut black men.
I’m sure if I googled, I could come up with a much longer list for you.
Tangentially, do you think the reason why few black women (besides the usual suspects) are seen on mainstream magazines is because most of the people who edit these magazines are white women?
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I’m sure if I googled, I could come up with a much longer list for you.
quote:
i’m sure I could come up with a longer list of black women with white men in hollywood too ; ). Going from the films I have seen I have personally seen more of that pairing. But I do agree that in the overall media rather than hollywood films they probably portray more black men with white women.
Tangentially, do you think the reason why few black women (besides the usual suspects) are seen on mainstream magazines is because most of the people who edit these magazines are white women?
quote:
Yes.
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Jennifer, is your father black and mother white? Just wondering.
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Debating whether Hollywood shows us more ww/bm hookups or more wm/bw hookups is debating whether the Titanic leaned to the left or the right as it sank.
We need to take it as granted that Hollywood will almost always sell a product that in some way reinforces what they believe the predominantly white audience will buy.
Unfortunately, we’ve shown that we will buy it too. Yes, there is some “trickology” going on.
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africanblackmilitant:
I just deleted a comment of yours that you plagiarized from Neely Fuller. Plagiarize again and you will be banned. This is your warning.
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Abagond
Your going to do it anway.
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Natasha,
But I don’t see or know any white men with curvy black women (although I’ve occasionally seen them with curvy non-black Latina women). I’m probably the curviest I know, in the sense that I have prominent hips/butt, but I’m still on the low end of average weight and most people would laugh at the idea of me being considered “thick” or any similar term.
I didn’t really mean about any particular girlfriend a white guy might have. As soon as they learn about a black girlfriend or a guy’s attraction to black women, they will (among other things) think the guy is into “fat women”. So imagine their surprise if a girl in question is thin.
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I’m not going to call any names, but I’d wager a large sum of money that a certain poster here is actually white – here making absolutely inane comments just to make this entire blog look bad. 😐
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As for interracial couples in movies, TV shows, etc. – Maybe it doesn’t matter (at all), but I do believe there are more black man/white man ones than the opposite pairings. Maybe it’s subjective, I don’t know… But I do notice. I can hardly name any mainstream movies and TV shows with black woman/white man couples, and while there must be many shows and movies I haven’t seen, I could still name more black man /white woman couples. I don’t know about reality, but you could say they are one of the most popular IR couples in movies, even more popular than, say, white men and Asian women ones (right?)
Natasha,
I don’t know why there are more this kind of IR couples. Maybe it’s a combination of racism and classic sexism. People often forget different identities and different ways of discrimination/oppression overlap. It’s no different with racism and sexism.
Full Frontal (Blair Underwood)
lol, That one sounds much, much better than it actually was!
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jennifer says,
Tangentially, do you think the reason why few black women (besides the usual suspects) are seen on mainstream magazines is because most of the people who edit these magazines are white women?
quote:
Yes.
laromana says,
jennifer, you hit on an important dynamic in Ameirca that has HISTORICALLY hurt BW. I have heard from media insiders that WW in casting positions or who are magazine editors ROUTINELY REJECT BW who present a POSITIVE/NON-STEREOTYPICAL image (ie. slim, beautiful, well spoken, intelligent, etc.) in favor of BW who REINFORCE NEGATIVE/ANTI-BW LIES/MYTHS/STEREOTYPES (ie. certain BW in Precious, Glee, Desperate Housewives, True Blood,etc.).
It’s clear that MOST WW casting directors and magazine editors DON’T want BW to be seen in a POSITIVE light. It serves their ANTI-BW RACIST tendencies to keep the beauty, feminininty, and dignity of BW INVISIBLE to the world and to keep promoting ANTI-BW LIES/MYTHS/STEREOTYPES that make WW “appear” to be “superior” to BW.
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Umm…BM/WW pairings in films and TV advertisments are far outnumbered by BW/WM pairings. All you have to do is look at who runs Hollywood to infer why this is.
I’m going to guess that more WW are displayed on magazine covers more often not only due to white supremacy but because whites are the majority.
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I’m going to guess that more WW are displayed on magazine covers more often not only due to white supremacy but because whites are the majority.
Eh… It does sound logical, until you realize white women are not just more often on covers, but most of the time. There are less black than white women in America, that is true, but there are more than 1% of them! (And I’d say it’s the percentage of black women on covers. Ok, maybe 5%).
So while I agree that with fair game there could still be more white women on cover because there are more white women, there should be at least 12-20% black women on covers.
And plus, who said magazine covers need to represent American demographic? There are more non-white than white people on Earth so there’s no reason for white women to dominate magazine covers.
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Jennifer, is your father black and mother white? Just wondering.
quote:
my father is black and my mother is white. But I identify as a black woman whilst still acknowledging my mixed heritage.
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It does make sense that white female magazine editors would rather show white women. As a woman of colour myself I would think where ‘the woman of colour at’ and that would refer to ethnic woman in general as I also think asian women are underrepresented in the media. Kimora Lee Simmons has also meantioned a few times that she could never just show white women at her fashion show, but then as an ethnic woman herself she obviously see things differently.
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maybe it is a case of coincedence in the films we have watched but I myself have seen more black woman/white man pairings than black man/white woman on TV and films.
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Jennifer, I figured. That’s the only way I could see a black woman actually making the statements you made (lol). As I always say: everyone has a motive, whether they are aware of it or not. As one whose parents are a black man and a white woman, you would naturally perceive that these couples get the short end of the stick rather than the reverse.
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Now, I see some of you must not be watching the same TV and movies I’m watching!
Like I said, usually when I see a black/white couple on TV, the man is black and the woman is white. Usually. In fact, if I see any interracial pairing with a black person, the guy is probably the black half. I see black women (usually of a certain look) sometimes in a group setting with white men and others, but I truly can not recall anything recently which show a clear couple.
For instance, as I mentioned above, House M.D., my favorite TV show. Eric Foreman (Omar Epps) and Thirteen (Olivia Wilde) were in a relationship for a good period of time in Season Five. They had several intimate scenes, including a kissing scene and a bed scene.
Oh yeah, I did mention that House was the most watched TV show in the world in 2009, right? How’s that for exposure? And House is directed by, what do you know, a white man.
Not saying that I see black/white interracial pairings often at all. But that the idea that black women/white men appears more often seems ludicrous to me. And I look for them, I really do.
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Oh yeah, Jennifer, you live in the UK. I don’t know what goes on with UK TV or movies. We might just be talking past each other here, even if some shows/movies interlap.
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I don’t have much more to add to this except for some tv/movie listings. lol
Natasha W, go online and watch: Being Human (Annie and her boy de jour), Merlin(Arthur and Gwen), Lost, Battlestar Galactica, Flashforward, unnnh. I can’t remember any more tv shows, sorry.
Movies: 28 Days later, Boiler Room, The Chronicles of Riddick, The Covenant, Hamlet (the one with Campbell Scott), Haven, Mr & Mrs Loving (I like this movie simply because it’s a story that was in my own family background), The Lathe of Heaven (both the two movies and the book), Demon Knight, The Secret Laughter of Women .
So many others are out there if you really want to look. These are simply ones that I can remember offhand and that’s because of my own ‘ulterior motive’: they match my own situation and also that of my parents. Also, I tend to watch funky movies, notice the majority of them are either sci fi or fantasy based.
I won’t get into mainstream books and comics ( I grew up on X-Men, etc) because that’s a whole ‘nother thing.
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Natasha,
Could be (about the UK). We already said that it’s possible to have a black female as a love interest without film/show being about interracial love. Also, it seems that people in Europe don’t see black man/white woman as so much of a taboo as Americans, so that kind of pairing is not as interesting or “controversial”.
Still, I did watch many UK movie and I don’t remember seeing many black woman/white man couplings. But I guess Jennifer knows better.
One thing is certain, though: regardless of actual racism, black women in Europe have a bit better representation in films than black women in America. For example, I don’t remember many “loud and ghetto” or “fat” stereotypes.
For instance, as I mentioned above, House M.D., my favorite TV show. Eric Foreman (Omar Epps) and Thirteen (Olivia Wilde) were in a relationship for a good period of time in Season Five. They had several intimate scenes, including a kissing scene and a bed scene.
True, but then again, it was a stupid pairing and often painful to watch.
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Mira:
Realism, once again. I think I can say that after 48 years living it.
The “loud, ghetto and fat” stereotypes are made in the USA and exported to “the rest of the world” as such. Without sufficient exposure and mainly in monolithic demographics, many people think it’s the status quo of black women as a minority everywhere, even outside the US. They are surprised to see black women talking and behaving like any other of their fellow citizens in European films. When they actually stay for a while in places with relatively high black populations – Paris, London, Amsterdam – and also get enough exposure through interacting with them they realise how different they are from the black American stereotypes in Hollywood films. It happened to my family a couple of times when they hosted exchange students from Lithuania and Poland. Although their French was a bit dodgy they quickly realised that my mother, grandmother, and some of my female cousins (75% Camerounaises) don’t talk or behave all in one stereotypical way totally different from other French women, but only by the individual differences in their personality. My grandma spoke with a slight accent all of her life and laughed really loud, but you’d find that also with any white French woman.
Btw, it always amused my father, who grew up in London, how Americans are baffled when they hear Black British speak. “What do you expect them to talk like? Eddie Murphy?”
There is a rising number of black youths in Europe, mainly in England, who pick up on the “ghetto” and some other imported negative stereotypes, like guns, as something cool. It worries me.
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>>Btw, it always amused my father, who grew up in London, how Americans are baffled when they hear Black British speak. “What do you expect them to talk like? Eddie Murphy?”<
A military friend of mine, black from a small town in South Carolina, had married a black woman–lovely and very dark-skinned–during a military tour in the UK. She had the "posh" accent. She told us a funny story about her first trip to her husband's home town.
At one point she needed a spool of red thread for some sewing she was doing, so she went to the local "five and dime" store in town. She didn't see the thread anywhere she looked, so she asked (in her posh accent) the older white cashier:
"Pardon me, but do you carry rolls of scarlet cotton?"
She said the woman just gawked at her a moment and said, "Say whu-at?"
She knew she wasn't saying the correct American words, but she couldn't think of them at that moment. So she repeated, "Do you carry rolls of scarlet cotton?"
The woman still gawked, then turned and shouted to another cashier, "Hazel, listen to this girl here. Say that again. What did you say?"
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Darth Vader! 😀
I was just thinking about black British accents last night. Though James Earl Jones isn’t a Brit, he does have that “posh” accent that many Americans seem to associate with villainy.
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Talking about stereotypes and Black Britain, here’s a funny short film with Tameka Empson
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You make powerful arguments. Lack of opportunity I believe is a big one. I have talked to white men and black women seem unapproachable also. Even if there is an opportunity. I wonder how many white men are attracted to black women but it wouldn’t bee accepted by there family? Interracial relationship can be difficult. Not accepted by society then your own family. I was talking to this white guy and he made a good point. Interracial relationship only seem like a big deal when it is white and black. Less problem or comments seem to arise when I white man dates any other race. Or black date any other race. Why is that?
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>>I was talking to this white guy and he made a good point. Interracial relationship only seem like a big deal when it is white and black. Less problem or comments seem to arise when I white man dates any other race. Or black date any other race. Why is that?<<
That would be, Hyleath, because there is less historical baggage between blacks and races other than whites. Remember that it is well within the memory of people living today–both black and white–that a white man could rape and murder a black woman with utter impunity.
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Three instances of the same tl;dr post.
Paragraphs breaks help if you want people to read a block of text, bw.
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Maybe this would suite Thaddeus, Erik and Marci better. Note I never said that I had a Ph.D. This is the same post from earlier, and I think I write very fine Erick. I write english just like everyone else. Please stop trying to make it as if black people can not write. Typo’s are a given. This is a Blog.
First off I a support the wm/bw relationship because I myself am interested in dating white males. I don’t have a masters degree and all that buy I have completed some college, I have a job that pays well, I have no kids, not on any assistance, very educated, I like rap, pop and rock, and take care of myself (not a gold digger at all, but find it funny that no one calls Kim Kardashian and her family gold diggers, they seek black successful men and her mother Kris Jenner is always trying to find a “black man” with money for one of her daughters).
I find the generalizations ridiculous from Robert and mike because ghetto is not a race it’s a culture. I wonder why this is not viewed as ghetto? A white woman that I work with who always cusses, hits office equipment when it she doesn’t understand how to work it, has a husband who has been in and out of jail who cant hold a job, has all these expose tattoos all over him, their children are always getting put out of school for fighting because his parents are always fighting people, and obviously are on drugs? Or how about some foreign people that I run into who speak in there language in very loud tones enough to interrupt everyone surrounding them and pay attention to them -whether their on the phone or talking to each other. That’s ghetto to me.
Or what about the white woman on the morning bus that I catch to commute to work, who talks so loudly (to a group of black women) about her life and how she is mad the bus is late. That’s ghetto to me. How come whites never consider that ghetto is not a black thing but a culture.
I do not act like any of these examples. As for Lynette, you said that you don’t know of any educated or uneducated bw that are crying home to date white men. What would you say for example, while you are praising your husband to be cream of your crop and your black king? What if your black king was sleeping with a white woman?? Would you praise him if he didn’t feel the same as you? Also Lynette I don’t like that you feel you had to say you have a Ph.D. As if you have to prove something to white people that your educated. Maybe that’s an insecurity but you don’t need a Ph.D to date or converse with a white counterpart.
As to Blanc2 I agree with you and abagond I agree with you saying that Robert Lindsay and wm like him have insecurities about his penis size. That is a brainwashing myth that bm use to keep bw with them as if they are the only ones that can satisfy them as explained by dedabets. I have dated small black men and have seen white men that can satisfy a black woman lol because reality kings porn proves other wise. lol
Also, what about all the wm/bw realationships. Robert Deniro only has date black women and had children with black women and married them. Hallie Berry, Sanna Lathan, Iman whose married to David Bowie, Phyllis Hyman, Diana Ross, Kerry Washington, Heather Headley, Paul Waul, Jourdan Dunn, Gabrielle Union, Sanaa Lathan, Garcelle Beauvais, Lela Rochon, YaYa Da Costa, Angela Bassett, Kerry Washington, Sharon Leal, Aisha Tyler, MC Serch, roger ebert, prince of monaco, Shia Labeouf (when he was trying to get at Rhianna). And before some of you say white men only want you for sex. Some of us Black women have only been wanted for sex by some black men. There are black men who use bw for sexual purposes.
White males I feel have grown to love the curves of a black woman. But they should know more than just sizing us up as ghetto, because I have met some ghetto white, asian and latin, arab women as well. The are just as loud, ignorant and aggressive.
Also, to racerealist why do women in general have to be submissive and why do some black women aggressive nature scare you? Is it because of your need to be in control? Is that the one thing that you have going for you in America. If so this shows your weakness and why you prefer and white women and or Asian or Arab (which you are entitled to). Submissive does not equal femininity. I would have thought you would like an aggressive woman on the same page as some aggressive white males, examples (politicians, ceo’s, corporate executives, lawyers, government officials, judges) are aggressive. And there are black people who occupy these positions but follow the white people who had these positions first who were aggressive in nature.
I think some white men like a smart aggressive black women because of are willingness to overcome adversity and not act like we need to be cared for all the time like the “white princess or china dolls”. I think that white men like that we are strong and have common sense unlike some white women or other non black races and that it is refreshing.
on Sun 3 Oct 2010 at 15:25:59 bwcommentary
your right thad. In your experience a Ph.D helps. But guess what, If you read what Lynette said it wouldn’t help you because she doesn’t want you. white man. I was trying to help you out. But maybe, I’m starting to see why some bw won’t date ignorant wm. So I guess it didn’t help. lol.
I was not demoting education folks, so lets get off that. I feel some of you are trying to divert the message I intended to send or just took it the wrong way. And like so many black women do (Marci) is focus on the matters that really was not the focal point. Typical.
Education is important. If you read, I said I went to college. I was just saying that Lynette was making it seem as if she had to deem herself equal to the “white standards” and I was just stating she doesn’t have to throw out there all the time that she has a Ph.D just to prove something to these ignorant wm. I feel black professionals feel they have to do that all the time to prove something to white America that your worthy. And I don’t feel all wm think this way. Just the one’s seeking to say something bad as to why they do not want to date a bw. Because they really can’t find anything in their initial generalizations. That we are all uneducated, ghetto, baby mamams, welfare, loud, agressive sterotypes. We shouldn’t have to prove it. They should see it, or they are not worthy of our love. That’s all I was saying folks.
And sometimes i feel white men do not want black or half black kids
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Oh and Jon B like Black women too
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bwcommentary, you shouldn’t make so many double comments; abagond will just delete them anyway.
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I feel that lack of acceptance by friends and family is the MAIN reason that more white men are not married to black women. I think many white men admire the beauty of black women and I believe if they had the nerve and felt that the woman wold accept they would go for it. I dont believe they would marry them, but date and go out with I truly believe they would do it. However when it comes to someone you plan to spend your life with they dont consider black women as much because they know that for the most part the relationship would not be accepted by their family and circle of friends and their coworkers. For the most part it would be ridiculed and they wouldnt feel comfortable with the situation.
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Well, I am white and married to a black woman for over a year and a half now. We have been together for 5 years this month. I am very happy with my wife and I didn’t date her because of some crazy stereotype. I started dating her because she was fun to be with. I asked her out and she said Yes, that simple. I initiated the conversation because I thought she was very beautiful, I was not concerned with my family or friends thoughts or perceptions. Now I am older than most of you probably are. I was 43 when I met her, so I was not inhibited about what others thought. But I just jumped in and I have been very happy ever since. just my two cents.
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Having been with opposite race, such as if your White then you like perhaps you married Black, does not really matter to the emotions that both of you feel. However, there are some that considers it not that good but let us face the fact that majority f the people nowadays does actually accept this kind of mutually understanding between people. There are lots who gives opinion but what matters most is the feeling that both of you have. Interracial dating is not bad, as some says, as long as there will be no racism dis abandonment being involved.
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Thanks. I forgot about Monster’s Ball; I think I will eventually see it. But I’ll note that 1/2 of those women are half white (normally I wouldn’t think this very relevant, but since white people like to bring that up in order to validate themselves, it’s quite relevant in this case).
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This article is racist bullshit. Black women not being that attractive. Well if you like flat ass, pasty skin and stringy hair, your right.
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I don’t get the part about black women not being educated. First, there are MANY educated black women espcially in corporated America. Also, who said that majority of white men are college graduates? I know a few bw/wm couples & some of them they both don’t have degrees; one the woman does & the man doesn’t…so what? I don’t think that education is a relevant factor in this scenario.
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Well all I can say is this…..
I am a white man who is married to a beautiful black woman. Her skin is sexy chocolate. She is the most gorgeous woman I have ever seen. Our children are absolutely beautiful. She has thick thighs and the most incredible butt. Her most attractive attribute is her attitude. She wont be run over by anyone. I find that sexy. All women should be strong like her. Some people would call her a ” sapphire “….I call her the love of my life.
.
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@Clint,
One thing I find that WM married to BW have in common on many of these forums is the way that they describe certain ‘attributes’ and ‘features’ and elements of physicality about their lady – I just wonder why this is?
I know you cant speak for all WM, just interested to hear the thinking behind this thats all.
Meanwhile your wife sounds like a ‘gem’ excuse the pun 🙂
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@Clint,
I have to say I am the same way. I’m white and my wife is black and she is my babydoll. She’s medium complexion and I always tell her, “I love chocolate”! It’s good to hear another man proud of his wife who happens to be black.
@Demera (sorry if I spelled your name wrong)
I can only speak for myself and I am attracted to black women. Yes, I love the curvy bodies and boogies, and that’s me. I there were a group of women in front of me to pick from, I will pick the black woman over any of the other women because of the attributes.
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I think its crazy for people to believe white men are not attracted to black women because of color. As long as she has a butt, breast, and waist, basically a body there attracted to them. People put to much thought into this crap who prefers who better. Whatever happened to just fallin in love
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Black Girl Thinking says,
I feel that lack of acceptance by friends and family is the MAIN reason that more white men are not married to black women. I think many white men admire the beauty of black women and I believe if they had the nerve and felt that the woman wold accept they would go for it. I dont believe they would marry them, but date and go out with I truly believe they would do it. However when it comes to someone you plan to spend your life with they dont consider black women as much because they know that for the most part the relationship would not be accepted by their family and circle of friends and their coworkers. For the most part it would be ridiculed and they wouldnt feel comfortable with the situation.
laromana says,
bwcommentary and Black Girl Thinking,
I strongly agree with both of your comments. Black Girl Thinking’s comment illustrates what I term ANTI-BW COWARDICE. Unfortunately many American men allow/have allowed ANTI-BW COWARDICE to stop them from seriously dating and/or marrying BW.
This has been my long term first hand experience but I’m encouraged to see that more younger American WM aren’t ruled by ANTI-BW COWARDICE as their older counterparts were.
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I am BW who is very much attracted to WM! I believe its a socicultural adaptation! We dont live in a segregated world and as a result you are going to meet and be introduced to and different cultures and races! Also I am apart of an accepting generation! Racism exist but on a much smaller scale and has to be hidden from the tolerable majority! iknow WM love me and my friends and we are all different shades, not just light skinned! But i would have to say that as much as WM dont consider it, BW dont entertain it because sterotypes! Sexual based stereotypes that are far from true! I think that we should just leave ppl alone and allow them to like who they wanna like and let skin color be the last of the worries!
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@Dude
@Demera (sorry if I spelled your name wrong)
I can only speak for myself and I am attracted to black women. Yes, I love the curvy bodies and boogies, and that’s me. I there were a group of women in front of me to pick from, I will pick the black woman over any of the other women because of the attributes
I dont blame you for being attracted to Black women 😉 I often tell my hubby he is the luckiest man alive lolol but seriously I guess men are more visual creatures . I sense with guys like you and Clint, it is more about revering what is attractive in your partner to you. I just cant imagine my hubby describing me in this way but perhaps its more due to his reserved British ness more than anything else lol.
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Well… I have said these same things several times before…
Ahem: I am a nordic (Finland), intelligent, artistic, tall (6’1″) guy who is attracted to bw. I want a smart, open minded woman, who is curious about all aspects of life as well all cultures, biology, history, arts, politics and race, palentology, anthropology etc… Everything under the sun.
Sometimes I’m so effin’ frustrated… I am indeed very attracted to BW with all shades of complexion, and there you are across the pond…among wm who are unable or unwilling to admit/express their attraction to and/or the prospect of having a life time commitment, marriage or not. I would never let the expectations of society or immediate family to dictate who I should love or not. Granted, my parents are very openminded, after all, that’s how thay raised me and my siblings. I did introduce this bi-racial womn to them, and they welcomed her with open arms.
And that’s what I’m here for. To let bw women know, that there are wm across the globe who would love to have the opportunity to explore the possibility of a lasting relationship with you. That there are wm who think you are as desirable as any other ethnicity, even more so, at least in my case.
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@ Hannu
Do you guys get many African immigrants up there?
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@Hannu
Bless you – do you subscribe to any of the dating sites that are around? There are some specific ones that promote Interacial Dating and from what I have seen, there are many BW who would love to date a man such as yourself.
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@ king:
In increasing numbers, which unfortunately -and to my shame- has led to the situation where the un-openly racist party of “True” Finns became the third largest party, instead of being a minuscle party just 4 years ago (parliamentary elections are every 4 yrs)… Not really relevant, but I’ve publicly announced that I’ll fight racism and idiotic patriotism with bare fists…gloves are off…
Unfortunately a lot of the african bw seem ( I had a date with one) to have only the most basic education, with rather limited english skills. I like to hang around with foreign people, but I also expect the prospective female to have a good grasp of english language. Even people who share the same language, misunderstand oneanother. I’d just like us to have a common language to share our thoughts with.
All that being said, a beautiful finnish woman is not out of the equation.
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@demerera
I was at some point. A lot of the contacs I got were from fairly underpriviledged african women. Very little language skills and rather too eager to get out of their country… I did email with one woman, but I always get very wary when a woman, practically knowing nothing about me, gets very amorous and sends me messages how she thinks of me and misses me…after like two mails… She might be a decent woman, but I want one I have a very deep emotional and intellectual connection with. I am in no rush.
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@Hannu
From what you have experienced so far sounds like you are right to be cautious. Strange isnt it how people differ, some men have more practical requirements when it comes to a mate 🙂 . I am thinking of some of my friends male friends who live in Ireland where they were looking for ladies from the Orient to marry. They used to go once a year on a lads holiday to source their potential brides. The belief was that these women made the ideal wife despite the fact that these women too were underpriviledged women looking to escape poverty rather than (as it turned out having met a couple of them) marrying intially for love.
The whole emailing thing sounds a bit ‘full on’ as well – not surprised you were wary though saying that, nothing wrong with a bit of amorous flirtation across the cyber miles 😉
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@demerera
I hear you… Many Finnish men are searching for traditional, submissive wives from Thailand. And sometimes they make really happy couples, even though I don’t really like the procedure, the wm/aw in my home town look quite happy. A, big, fat, blond finnish man with this petite thai girl. Who am I to judge, even though they look opposites to me. I wish them well.
But I require a lot more. I don’t want a submissive wife, I want an equal partner, both physically and mentally.
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In the case of Thai/Philipino women I wonder sometimes if its not necessarily what the men want but what is easiest to access and the least fuss (ignoring all the bureaucracy). That sounds like I am saying that they could never find these ladies attractive (thats not it at all), I am just thinking about the ones in the examples we are discussing who dont necessarily seem to initially marry for love but for the more traditional ‘roles’ that men and women play.
Meanwhile I am sure you are busy networking and hopefully it will only be a matter of time before you meet someone. I am guessing that there are not many BW in Finalnd? You seem so set in your quest to meet a BW, can I ask was there some particular person/thing that triggered this?
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@demerera
Also, you have to acknowledge, that in Thailand, a western husband is seen as desirable, a step forward in the social ladder in Thai community. Western spouses are highly sought after, they are considered wealthy westerners… I personally don’t find it very equal when a 50-60 yrs old westerner is marrying a 20-30 yrs old Thai girl. Among the more eligible ‘bachelors’ in Finland, it is indeed seen as exploitation, reserved only to guys who cannot find a finnish/western woman.
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@demerera
To your second question: what I know of my fellow finnish men, most are at least very curious about black women. Most think that they are very sexy and desirable.
Yes, in my country it is rather difficult to meet bw. I think I’ve always seen exotic women beautiful…but originally I think I started noticing them thanks to house music. Most of the MTV videos I saw, featured a eauropean band with a beautiful, strong bw singing high and loud…and we loved it (school of arts)! Ever since I thought that OMG, those lead vocalists ære hotter than volcano… But they were nowhere go be found…sob…
I have dated a few bw, but none of them were quite what I was looking for…
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@Hannu L
Look up AfroRomance. It’s a website you might be interested in. I’m still laughing at the “But they were nowhere to be found…sob…” lol.
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@ Marci…
The most bw I’ve talked to, yes privately with at least one of the members here… The only obstacle is the ocean.
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Grrr. It’s always something small, like the ocean… Umm, maybe you two should become mutually involved on a mmo or something. Do you play any online games like Rift or (gag gag) World of Warcraft? Even Second Life would be a good way to keep in touch across the ocean if you meet someone.
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Gah… You make me feel even older than I am.. I’m 43, I don’t play online games, thanks for the suggestion, lol!
Plus, I have an 11 year old son, who is my sole responsibility.
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^
^
Is 43 also and been playing them for too long. I used to have to wait until my children had gone to bed so I could play.
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Lol!
It’s my son in my Avatar pic…
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@Marci,
Hannu L seems a discerning kinda guy – he knows exactly what he’s looking for and he will hit the jackpot when he finds it. 🙂
@Hannu L Yes, that curiosity thang has had many a white man approach me lol. Some of the myths/stereotypes are shocking but mostly it is refreshing how some embrace BW and are interested in the culture etc. What a shame that there is limited opportunity to mix with BW in your neck of the woods. You never know though, that may change or your own cirucmstances might put you in a situation where you are inundated by a bevvy of BW….
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I see my fellow man is still seeking his woman. What ever happened to that brittish lady, Hannu? Did you guys ever meet or… ?
Yes, black women are not too many up here. This is after all, the land of Joulupukki, reindeers, wolves and six months of arctic darkness, deep freeze, six months of no night at all plus heat waves, clouds of mosquitoes and such. I guess, just like most of the world population, most black women went elsewhere.
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Yeah, I mean, I have dated black women: a biracial finnish girl, a Kenyan woman and a Zimbabwean woman living in UK.
Admittedly, when I dated the bw finnish girl (african dad, finnish mothet), I sort of went black, and wasn’t able to go back…is that bad? After her I was somehow more attracted to bw than I had been ever before. I suppose it had a lot to do with the fact that I realised – OMG! I could actually have a relationship with a bw, lol!
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Sam the man!
I did indeed meet her, spent one week in Plymouth… But as it goes, relationship is more than physical attraction, so nothing came of it. No need to go into details, but we were both happy to have the experience, nevertheless the outcome.
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@sam
Ergh, we’re going through our own heatwave here and I’ll have you know the mosquito is the state bird of New Jersey.
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@bulanikgirl: For me it is the person, black or white, or what ever the ethnicity. Main thing is that the Thing works. Black women? Absolutely yes, if two hearts meet.
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@bulanikgirl
Thanks! You filled my heart with joy…
That being sad, I’ve pretty much always been attracted to beautiful bw, they are just so scarce here in the cold shores of the north…but there are men with warm hearts and open arms here…men who see beauty in all races…
The biracial girl… I saw her dancing in a night club, and I thought, hmm, there’s a nice looking, petite bw….not that I prefer petite women, i’m a tall guy myself.
Actually, I prefer curvy women with sum meat on their bones, lol
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@Bulanikgirl
What part of Ireland are you living in? Been to both North and South and I loved the ‘craic’ I had at both.
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Just watchin ‘Something New’ – anyone seen it?
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@Bulanikgirl:
To me, the complexity of the ethnic relationships in USA was confusing and also contradicting to what I though I knew about your demographic tensions. For a long time many europeans swallowed the idea of US being this mostly harmonious melting pot of different cultures… Mainly after frequenting blogs like Abagond’s, I’ve started to relize that America has not indeed washed its dirty laundry. I think Europeans might be a bit more oblivious to the burden of American racial relationships, and thus might be more open to specifically African American individuals. Racism in Europe is more directed at people’s place of origin, instead of skin of color per se.
Finland is probably as saturated by american popular culture as any other country in the world. I personally just hope people use their own judgement when picking up influences around the world.
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@Bulanikgirl
Re: Something New – the very same lol. Still watching it now as we speak. Intrigued to watch it as I saw Sanaa Lathan in ‘Cat on a Hot tin roof’ at the theatre in London and been interested in her ever since though this is probably the first of her movies that I have watched. Not sure about the guy and the characters he has played but I think I have seen him somewhere before. I know Donald Faison as Turk in scrubs and also Blair Underwood too. Also the mother most recently I saw her in Desperate Houswives.
Re: Ireland – I have been to Dublin (visted the Guinness factory, cant stand the stuff myself) and Donegal in the North. I found the people friendly/curious towards me – how bout you? Saying that, some bloke had a go at me when he found out I was from England and started ranting about how much he hated the British. I am aware of the ‘Troubles’ but never thought I would meet someone still so vehment about things, naive I guess…
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@Bulanikgirl
“Sometimes what I read on Abagond is emotionally painful – is assaults my sensibilities more than any fiction I would read.”
I grew up in New Jersey and those words are still pretty much true for me also. This were not my experience growing up and so I could not relate to a lot of what was said at times. It would drive me nuts until I read what others had gone through. At one point I was accused of being a puppet, someone white or other names because my viewpoint was different.
There are always going to be those idiots everywhere who spout off crap because they want to be at the top of the totem and there will always be others trying to climb over others on their way to the top.
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@bulanikgirl:
Well, I lived in USA in 80’s and 90’s so I got to experience US race situations couple of times. I had some black buddies with whom I had one incident in a local books store where my black friends were “under suspicion” since they were not buying anything (they were waiting for me) and once when we were driving in my friends car at night. That was a bit hairy situation, to say the least. Cops who stopped us had a hard time to believe that I was ok and was voluntarily in the car with three black guys :-DDD. There was an incident with native americans too and that was scary but I think it had something to do with politics also.
What amazes me in US race relationships is their endurance. Old suspicions, old attitudes, old conventions, old clishés are recycled again and again endlessly. Questions of intelligence are brought up based on race, biological explanations for social phenomenas are presented as valid science etc. Really weird, when every one knows that there is biologically just one human race on this planet and that the differences are cultural, not based on skin color. Black americans are considered americans in Finland, not different from any other americans. The same goes with black britts. They just happen to be black.
Racism in Finland is usually targeted at different cultures. Africans have more trouble in Finland than blacks from US or Britain. Muslims, somalis, arabs etc. are usually those who have to face racism, black westeners not so often. Recently racism has reared its ugly head here too with the rise of the right wing populist party True Finns. Some guys belong to the openly xenophobic and racist circles and try to influence the policies from within by belonging to that party.
During the deep economic depression in early 90’s there some skinheads in Joensuu, rural small town in eastern Finland, who attacked the american guys who were playing in local team. Those guys tried to act as nazi skinheads but were really just a bunch of local thugs. Now 15 years later I think most of those skinheads are either dead or in jail. Leader killed himself after spending his life as a junkie and petty criminal.
Yes, there is some racism in Finland but mostly it is not that big deal if you’re a black or white. Particulary if you speak finnish fluently. Just google Lola Odusoga, my favorite Miss Finland of all time. Not only she is beautiful but she is funny and witty as hell :-DD
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Black women are beautiful. Being a black woman, I do not feel that we get a fair chance in life. Out of all the other race of women, we are made to feel, like we are inferior, while WW are viewed as the most attractive race based on the media idea of beauty. The media works in overdrive to get their idea of beauty across in the movies, magazines, etc. I can’t count the number of times that I have been watching a movie with my husband and a WW is showing her naked body in a sex scene in 100% of the movies seen on television and at the movies. WW are not the only race of women in the world and Why isn’t my husband and other men able to see BW naked body in overdrive in the movies, It is is because the media wants to make all men, like WW instead of allowing men to choose which race of women they find the most attractive, so if a BW is never shown or rarely shown in all her nakedness on televison or in the movies, how can any man ever see us as desireable, therefore the media never shows us in this way. Just showing our big butts repeatedly in a movie, would cause men of all races to fall in love with BW, not to mention the rest of our body, dark skin, full lips, versatile hair etc. (whole package) If WW are so beautiful, why do they try so hard to look like BW. We have everything that they want, dark skin, big butts and hair that is versatile. You will never see a WW celebrity in a movie whose skin is untanned, lips that are not injected, and butt implants, so why is a woman who has gone to these extremes with their body viewed as beautiful ? When it is obvious that they have made these changes to look closer to a BW.
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@Bulanikgirl
Hey. I saw some of the beauty of Donegal but not much as you describe as I was only there for such a short amount of time. I intend on going back there soon so I will take note of the things you have said and look out for them.
I did drink in the pubs (took me the longest time in the U.K but when I got to Ireland I was more used to it) but it was here that the ‘interest/curiosity’ was most apparent. A U2 tribute band were playing in the pub we went in and I got ‘seranaded’ by the Bono of the group lol. When my friend and I walked in to one particular pub I noticed a couple of guys (who were staring agog) one of which said to the other ‘a couple of black girls have just come in’. Later, they made their way over to us and the one who had ‘noticed’ us started talking. My friend mentioned to him what we had lip read and chastened he said that it was not meant in an offensive way, merely pure fascination and went on to try to get to know us lol.
I didnt experience any direct racisim other than being British as I said before, then again I wasnt there long enough tbh. My friend who lives there doesnt mention any but, she is much different to me in terms of her life experiences so maybe she doesnt notice things in the same way I would!
I think you are right in terms of the timeframe of 10-20 years that you talk of though in terms of racism – maybe cities of Dublin are more progressive???
Do Irish men marry Black women? Not very much at all. Blondes are the thing, and men here seem to ‘stick to what they know’
The ones I met over there were set on marrying women of the orient!!! Maybe its because not many BW make it over there??? That said though in the few times I have been there I have had my fair share of potential suitors lol
Are you in Ireland for long? I would like to go back to Dublin again, Temple Bar was fun 🙂
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@bulanikgirl: Well, she is very much. Actually Lola is now married and mother of two, but she has her own tv show, does some modelling, hosting events etc.
There is a black woman news anchor in the channel 4 news, there are some actors, some municipal level politicians, one guy Jani Toivonen just got into parliament, but other than that black finns are rare in the media. And yet, the first black WOMAN school teatcher was working here around 100 yrs ago, there was a black guy fighting in Winter war etc. So there has always been blacks here but they have been very small minority. I’ve met black finns, that is people who have born here and talk finnish as their first language, so they are there.
There is a problem between somali community and other ethnic groups. For why, I do not know. Somali guy have been fighting other ethnic groups, other immigrants, and there has been some cultural clashes. There are those in the somali community who try to open doors but there are those who seem to want cut as many ties between the majority and their community. Religion and some traditions play a big part in it. Also young somali guys have been involved some high profile criminality and that has given some reason to mutual suspicion between them and others. Personally I can say that somalis are the only ethnic group in Finland that my family has had problems. I do no’t know why.
Relationships between somali girls and finnish men are very much No No inside the somali community. There is some “Honor” violence towards the girls and women, and some womens organisations have reported that there are somali women in Finland who came here as refugees in early 90’s but they still do not speak any finnish because their husbands and male relatives have kept them a part of the wider society. And as you know women have same absolute rights by law in Finland as men, so this could be a religious and cultural thing too. Muslim girl is not supposed to marry a non muslim, she is supposed to obey her father and brothers untill she is married etc. In finnish law when she is 18 she can do what ever she wants with her life. So…
That being said, the tartar muslim minority which moved here 150 yrs ago has been active and totally integrated part of finnish society. I know at least one tartar woman who is married to a jewish guy. This is totally alien idea for these new immigrants and their version of islam.
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@Bulanikgirl – Please bear with me in terms of my writing highlighting technique and whether the emboldened/italics actually work this time lol.
Bulanikgirl:I’ve also heard about men here expressing an interest in East Asian women as wives, but curiously, I have not actually seen any evidence of it as yet.
Demerera: It may be you havent seen these ladies around as they are fulfilling the submissive role and staying at home!! This is a union that clearly has benefits to both parties but unarguably the intial purpose of these unions is generally like a ‘contract’ but between two willing and understanding participants. I didnt see any of it there either but I know that since I was last there, a couple of the guys I met got married to ladies from East Asia.
Bulanikgirl:Nevertheless, I have heard of Irish men marrying Black women, but the rarity of this is probably because there are not many Black women in Ireland as you rightly point out.
Demerera:The only one I know is my friend. Other than that, I am thinking of people in the media. Isnt Colin Farrell married to a black woman? Also, Shane Lynch from Boyzone. Think ‘The Edge’ also dated and may even have married Naomi Campbell, but she seems too high maintenance for any man LOL. Maybe there are some Irish guys lurking about here who could clarify???????
Bulanikgirl:However – this does not mean that Irish men are not interested, curious and attracted to Black women. They are, given the chance. You will find a lot of gentlemen here will, as they say, “chance their arm” and endeavour to spend time with you and put their questions to you – and why not! They have charm coming out of their ears.
Demerera:Yes, they do have a lot of charm and a load of blarney too lol. When we went to my mates local the barman there was such a cheeky devil and kept playing little tricks on me – nothing harmful, just playful things like hiding my drink or something. My friend was shocked as she had been going there for a long while and she had never ever seen that side of him as he always appeared so stern. She said that since then on the rare times that she goes there he always asks when her ‘little friend’ is coming back in lolol.
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Blast, it didnt work. Someone give me some pointers please re bold and italics.
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@bulanikgirl:
Sorry I am not an expert in somali culture so I do not know. But in general they seem to be the group that has had more troubles than many others in adapting in finnish society. Also they seem to be the group which has troubles with other immigrant groups. I have no idea why.
Yeah, we finns do not talk much, sometimes. Other times we can not be shut up. But unlike in say american culture, keepin quiet is always an option, even in social gatherings and occations. You can visit a friend and say two words all evening and that is ok. I’ve done it myself. Just say Hi and then eat a bit and watch a game on telly and go home. In public transportation people usually like to keep quiet and stay on their own.
There is a tradition of personal space here, meaning if you do not know me or work with me or are introduced to me, keep your distance. Do not hug people you do not know. These traditions are slowly changing amon the young I guess. But my generation is cabable spend an evening with friends saying just the essentials like: You want some more? You hungry? Nice. Bye. :-DD
But this is getting off topic so…
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Demerera:
To make something bold you put it between <b> and </b>
Likewise, to make something italic you put it between <i> and </i>
A common mistake is to use square brackets instead of angle brackets – that does not work on WordPress blogs.
Another common mistake is to put the slash after the b or i, like this: <i/>. If everything in your comment becomes bold or italic, that is the reason 95% of the time.
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My two cents on the Finnish-Somali relationships. The origin of the hostility and despise of Finns towards Somalis might have a lot to do with the fact that loads of them came to Finland during one of our worst economicsl recessions in the early 90’s. Many underprivilegded Finns that Somalis were overcompensated because of their refugee status. True or false, that image has stuck. And Finns like to think of themselves as very quite and humble, and Somalis were quite the opposite.
Interstingly, I dated a finnish biracial girl (nigerian dad, finnish mother), who had two kids with a Somalian man. What she told me about him, was rather irritating…he totally dispised Finnish culture, and claimed that Finland needed people like him to work in hospitals and nursery homes… He himself barely worked, but insisted on having a special status because he was a foreigner. He did very little to try to adjust. His finnish was poor and his english wasn’t much better. But I have to admit, he sounded a bit mentallly imbalanced…violent, drank, smoked hash and chew khat.
Somalian women are concidered to be out of bounds, mostly because they don’t go to pubs or nightclubs where finns go to meet the opposite sex. Although, I’ve seen a couple of beautiful somali women on a date with a blond finnish guy, so I believe the next generation is more openminded.
Many finns are irritated by the groups of young somali men hanging around downtown Helsinki. But my mixed ex gf told me, that it’s part of their culture. Women stay at home with kids, men go and hang around with their male friends.
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Like sam said, many of the immigrant women aren’t aware of their rights in Finland…if they don’t know the language and husbands keep them at home, they will never be aware of those rights. Many men coming from strongly patriarchal societies have problems of admitting their women the rights and freedom they are entitled to. I suppose they fear of the disintegration of their traditional family and tribal bonds. That they are no longer in control. But if you move to another country, you have to adopt some of the charasteristics of your adopt country.
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That being said, I welcome all immigrants, I just believe the Finnish government needs to invest more on the education of newcomers. I personally believe it is possible for them to find theit place in our society.
After all, no country in hermetically sealed. The world is changing, and underpriviledged and exploited people have the right to try and find prosperity where ever they see fit. We are now harvesting the bitter fruits of western colonialism.
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@bulanikgirl
I’m pretty sure the female circumcision is illegal in Finland. The male equivalent operation is performed only for medical reasons, not religion. Which creates a problem among muslim minority, because they might resort to an unprofessional, religiously chosen person to perform the operation. Totally illegal of course, but if tgere’s a serious infection or other probem, the finnish medical professioals need to take care of it anyway.
There are of course Somalis, who are well-adjusted, master the language and have decent jobs. I hope that is indeed the shape of things to come. It is really important to educate immigrant women, for I believe they have the best chance to act as bridge builders, after they are told of their equal rights as a fellow human beings, despite their gender.
These are of course complex matters and I believe that nations will mix more and more, and I see it mostly as a good thing. I hope equality spreads across the globe this way. We share all the same genes, the slight variations between our complexion, eyes and hair is only due to a few mutations…
Do I sound enough like a liberal, idealistic romantic to you already, lol?
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@Bulanikgirl
Top of the morning to ya, Hope you have had a good day today thus far.
Btw, I remember the one place of historic interest that I managed to fit in. It was Donegal Castle but even then I didnt get to look around as thoroughly as I would have liked.
I will be sure to let you know when I go – I am hoping later this year but that depends on my cousin. We are looking to start out in the south to do some genealogical research and then head up North to see my mate – thats the plan anyway.
🙂
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Hannu L,
What is the logic behind inviting immigrants who not only do not wish to assimilate, but actually despise the host culture, have greater per-capita crime rates, and are more likely to be a burden on the taxpayer?
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@Bulanikgirl, Demerera:
You are indeed women to my liking. You seem to have an exellent grasp of racial relationships. It does indeed require that local people give immigrants time to adjust, and also try to help their adjustment instead of outright judging them just because of their color or nationality. That we form this society together, instead of digging trenches between ethnicities.
Sad to say, we had a parliamentary rection this spring, and ‘True Finns’, a patriotic but very racist (which they deny) party became third. Gadly, they seem to be naturally opposing every thinking Finn, they chose to be in the opposition.
Unfortunately, racism and nationalism seems to be on the rise all over Europe. The battle for the deminishing resources has started.
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@ Randy Garver
How do you separate the possibly productive applicants from the un-productive ones?
You’d need the combined forces of Nostradamus and iChing to decide that.
How do you know how productive one individual will be? A genetics engineer might become depressed, where as a non-educated guy might come up with a great idea and start a globally successful enterprise…
Fuzzy logic.
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@Hannu L
I thank you for the compliment 🙂
You too sound like you are on my wavelength and I enjoy reading your posts about life in Finland. It’s a shame as if I knew you a couple of years ago I would have been talking to you about hooking you up with some of my ‘girlfriends’ lol.
@Bulanikgirl who writes so eloquently and expresses situations and experiences which mirror my own thoughts and life experiences. Your posts are both engaging and thought provoking and I look forward to reading more about your travels and experiences.
Most of the posts of late seem quite balanced or at least openly curious which to my mind is good as everyone has something to bring but we all have much to learn too x
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@Bulanikgirl: ‘Another example, but the other way round: when Commonwealth immigrants were invited to the Motherland (England) in the 1950/60s/70s, they were colonized idealists, refined, literate people of culture who thought they would be welcome, they thought the streets were paved with gold. How naive they were. These humble, hardworking people were … treated like dirt’.
Couldn’t have said it better myself. I think back to all the Windrush footage showing the West Indian immigrants coming to the country with such high hopes and expectations. Many of the men fought for the British in WW2 and from my understanding when they were here for that purpose they were treated ok…but that was clearly because the expectation was that they would eventually go back. People truly wanted to work and integrate in to society but were met with barriers all the way.
A good book to read about this is ‘Small Island’ by Andrea Levy…in fact I recommend any of her books…
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@Bulanikgirl, Demerera
I am very happy to read your posts. Finally we are getting a more universal (read: european) view of racism and interracial relationships.
I welcome you with open arms, because as you said, the USA-centric approach to racial relationships is totally baffling to me…
“One Drop Rule”? I just don’t get it. It’s just so insane socially, culturally and genetically. I do appreciate the comments made here by people who do not condone to that ‘logic’…
I feel that all of us are doing an important job in maintaining an arena of civilized disdussion. Providing that the people attending are somewhat educated on openminded.
If you want to write me, my email is hannu@hannulipponen.com
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@Bulanikgirl
I for one am so frustrated with the dialogue here on Abagond’s. It just keeps repeating the same, old, rusty recycles. I have no idea how to stop that.
Just maybe by ‘education, education, education’. People of every country should be enlightened by the beautiful and diverse culture of (wo+)mankind.
That all cultures are worthwhile and valuable. That all of us have experiences, stories and myths that enrich our common world.
But I supppose there are people who value material wealth over immaterial, cultural values… Boo-hoo me, a tree-hugging culturapologist…
Lol! ;(
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Hannu L:
My wife’s a 3rd world immigrant, and to emigrate to the US she had to provide proof of education, job skills, English proficiency, and have a job lined up.
That seems to be a reasonable benchmark by which to predict whether someone will become a productive citizen.
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Bulanikgirl:
I cannot understand the logic of inviting people into your country who you strongly suspect cannot assimilate.
Would you allow someone into your house who didn’t share your values, caused violence against you, and was a drain on your budget?
That does not seem to be a rational response to the desire to help others.
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I find Utilitarianism to be rather inhuman and apalling disposition.
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Hannu L:
If you’re referring to my comment, then that’s a complete straw man.
Asking people to not abuse you, your culture, and your generosity is hardly “utilitarianism”.
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Actually, Finland was colonized by the swedes and russian for some 800 years.
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Bulanikgirl asked:
You raise a number of interesting points.
For the sake of clarification, in this analogy we’re talking about inviting someone live in and share one’s home, not just pop in for a visit.
Given that, I would look for a living companion who shared my values. This would generally mean that they can support themselves, or else they have the willingness and capacity to work diligently towards that goal.
Also, they would need to be able to live peaceably. I would never expose my wife and children to the danger of a house-guest who, regardless of pitiable circumstances, lacks the control or desire to live peacefully.
Accepting an invitation to live in another’s home assigns the responsibility to abide by their rules and customs, and to learn their language. A visitor who is fundamentally disgusted by the host’s western values would not make a good fit for either party.
In the case of un-assimilating immigrants who are the subjects of these discussions, the cultural disconnects include domestic violence, oppression of women, and mutilation of women. I could not in good conscience expose my wife and children to such danger.
As for the desire to help others, I can and do engage in philanthropy. I have spent time assisting in food kitchens for the poor and homeless. However, I am not willing to invite such persons to live in my home. I doubt very many readers of this blog have done so either.
Bulanikgirl asked:
I am not familiar with this history, but what you have described does seem fundamentally unfair.
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Still Randy, you have to consider that there are many foster parents who do just that. They bring children into their homes, from less than ideal backgrounds, as long-term guests, or even as family members. The question is, whether that behavior is patently illogical?
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King said:
Foster care is temporary, involves children rather than adults, and the parents assume full legal control over their wards. Unruly or violent children can and are be removed from custody. I think that differs significantly from the immigration paradigm.
I’d also speculate that successful foster parents demand greater levels of obedience and responsibility than many states have the political will to demand of immigrants.
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Immigration (if not naturalized) can be temporary, involves both children and adults, and the host nation assumes full legal control over the immigrants. Unruly or violent immigrants can be imprisoned, or removed by deportation. I don’t think that differs so significantly from the immigration paradigm.
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I’m really, really starting to like bulanikgirl.
@Randy Garver:
I really dislike how people like you use simplified allegories to justify their views. In the case of immigrants, no actual person is going to live under your roof in real life… Most immigrants migrate to find better life, but don’t expect to achieve it without hard work.
It does indeed piss me off that there are western people on this planet who think that they are the pinnacle of human evolution, totally neglecting colonialism and the historical succesion of abuse of countries with extreme natural wealth… Sucking them dry and them blaming those countries for their sorry condition. Prime example being Exxon, totally exploiting Nigeria and forcing its underpriviledged people to find work, underpaid work, outside their boundries.
People will always try to exploit other people. But the excuses are always the same: we need to educate them, to civilize them, rain down the fear of wrath of god to to keep them docile, preventing them to revolt.
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If you’re referring to my comment, then that’s a complete straw man.
I love straw men, they’ve got lots of stamina, for cleaning and carrying shopping bags!!! More so than chubbier or more muscular ones anyway’s.
What is the logic behind inviting immigrants who not only do not wish to assimilate, but actually despise the host culture, have greater per-capita crime rates, and are more likely to be a burden on the taxpayer?
The logic? I’ll give it a go. It allows folks like yourself to come onto blogs and post racist responses under the guise of ‘logic’. But you ain’t racist, oh nooo, as your spouse came from a third world country albeit poverty-stricken, meet a white man, marry, and live happily ever after assimilating! Are you married to Michelle Makin?
Would you allow someone into your house who didn’t share your values, caused violence against you, and was a drain on your budget?</em.
Domnatrixes are paid good money for that scenario you just described! I'll do it for free!
How do you separate the possibly productive applicants from the un-productive ones?
You can’t Hannu. The logicaL thing would be to not let any immigrants in according to Randy’s ‘logic’, unless they are willing to kiss white behind to the detriment of their own.
I have spent time assisting in food kitchens for the poor and homeless.
That’s real nice Randy, did you clean up after them? Why bother help them Randy? You’d be more helpful cleaning up litter on the street as that is how you regard these ‘homeless folk’, as pieces of trash. They are all the same regardless of circumstances or how they got there to you.
I don’t think that differs so significantly from the immigration paradigm.
If your name is Randy it does. On a lighter note, were you on vacation Randy?
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King said:
I think you’re probably nominally correct, but I haven’t heard of this happening much. I think many Western European countries lack the political will to enforce such rules, or to implement requirements to require assimilation as a condition of immigration.
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Hannu L,
How does your comment (colonialism, Exxon) relate to our discussion? I’m unsure how to connect the dots.
Herneith asked:
My wife’s prettier and sweeter.
Herneith said:
Asking immigrants to share your values, learn your culture and language, and participate in civic life are perfectly reasonable demands, and far different from “kissing behinds”.
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@sam Finland was not actually colonized, I would rather say under Swedish and Russian rule. Swedes nor the Russians never tried to move in here.
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@Herneith:
Marry me!
@Randy Garver:
I knew you were not able to grasp the bigger, no, I mean the biggest picture. I suppose it’s all fine and dandy in your private heaven, not understanding or caring for the plight of people with lesser opportunities.
You do realize, that we as human species share all the same genes with the same abilities. Which means that the injustice in this world is purely political. Western world wants desperately to cling to its ill-gained wealth, and shall use any excuse to prevent it being evenly spread to those people and countries that are entitled to it.
But who cares, China will devour America in the next 50-100 years, lol! You’ll be their bitches, drop ur pants and prepare for a decent spanking…
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@Herneith:
What is the logic behind inviting immigrants who not only do not wish to assimilate, but actually despise the host culture, have greater per-capita crime rates, and are more likely to be a burden on the taxpayer?
This! lol!
Spot on as always. 🙂
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Hannu L:
What does this statement have to do with requiring immigrants to respect western values such as equality for women?
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‘ The other reasons have some truth to them, but notice how they never seem to blame white men. ‘
what’s to blame ? should there be a law forcing interracial dating & marrige ? Guess I’d be in jail.
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Problem soved! There’s PLENTY of interracial dating in jail! A perfect place to expand your… um… your horizons.
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Sorry, I was channeling Herneith
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A perfect place to expand your… um… your horizons.
And your butt cheeks if you stoop to pick up a bar of soap in the shower, don't forget!
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@john: yes they did. The swedes by the order opf their king, none the less. Helsinki was actually founded by those ordered to move in to Finland. Russian did not so much and not organized by the state, not counting some tens of thousands of soldiers who lived here. But yes, they moved into Finland by thousands, John.
@king: 😀
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@bulanikgirl: I doubt the history had any effect, other than the WW2 years.
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Right! Try again with the Bold and Italics…
@Bulanikgirl
Apologies, didnt see your response to this post before…
@demerera
I think your barman is a messer (Irish for cheeky guy) who likes you and wanted your attention!
LOL, I’ve heard variations on the word mess as in ‘I was just messing with ya’ but not head ‘messer’ before. New word to add to my vocab of slang. He was slightly too mature for me (and I’m no spring chicken being in my 30’s now).
To answer your question, both Colin Farrell and Shane Lynch have expressed that they find Black women particularly beautiful in interviews, etc.
Knew there was something about both these guys that I liked 😉 I knew Shane was married to Esther or was it Vernie??? from Eternal too. I watched a fly on the wall documentary about the build up to his wedding with his current wife – forgot those girls from B*witched were his kin.
And, I think you could be right about the East Asian wives being invisible because they are tucked away at home!
Either that or they are concerned that the next man will come along and have even more to offer the ladies!
If you dont mind be asking, what kind of work is it you do that enables you to travel so extensively? Do you find that colour has been a barrier in terms of the professionalism that you have encountered with people? Having watched all of ‘Something New’ now, one of the points raised in that was in the early part of the film where the guy that Sanaa Lathan’s character had the meeting with expected someone more ‘Senior’ to be attending the meeting. He was not happy to trust her decision/judgement in most areas and was always looking for that ‘second opinion’ from the white male counterparts that she was associated with through her work – even to the point where he wanted the opinion of her more junior colleague.
Incidentally I thought it was a twee kinda sweet movie which ‘touched’ on some ‘issues’ briefly but clearly, the length of time of the film was not sufficient enough to adequately and accurately address things properly….
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Yeah! It worked 🙂
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“I welcome you with open arms, because as you said, the USA-centric approach to racial relationships is totally baffling to me…
“One Drop Rule”? I just don’t get it. It’s just so insane socially, culturally and genetically. I do appreciate the comments made here by people who do not condone to that ‘logic’…”
I can’t tell you why there are so many online commenters who are fanatical in their desire for mixed people to be “considered Black” (whatever that means). In any case, I would say they are a definite minority of the US population these days. The country has been rapidly shifting to greater recognition of mixed identity. For instance, as of 2000 the US Census Bureau has allowed respondents to identify themselves as multiracial by checking multiple race boxes. Based on this data, we know that there are approximately 1.8 million self-identified B-W multiracials currently residing in the US. Other institutions, such as companies and schools, also include multiracial categories on their forms. Major new sources now customarily refer to individuals of mixed parentage as “biracial” in their reports. There are a whole host of celebrities and other major public figures who regard themselves as mixed race. “Multiracial” and “biracial” are now part of the popular lexicon, especially among the younger population segments. By my estimation, the one drop rule is quickly disintegrating here. Even so, there are ongoing efforts to save the practice and expand its range into other regions, especially Latin America. However, with the accelerating growth of the mixed population, their quest is ultimately futile.
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Personally, I’ve shied away from dating black women because there’s so much baggage attached. The few times I’ve tried to take the relationship(s) past the bedroom, I got static from black AND white people. Who needs THAT? Relationships are hard enough.
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@Doug
Personally, I’ve shied away from dating black women because there’s so much baggage attached. The few times I’ve tried to take the relationship(s) past the bedroom, I got static from black AND white people. Who needs THAT? Relationships are hard enough.
Everyone has life experiences or ‘baggage’ as you put it Doug so it would be naive to think that anyone you ‘date’ has not been shaped and moulded by their past experiences to an extent!
One thing I am curious about though, is it the women you date OR the people you encounter that give you ‘static’ that have caused the problems in the relationship (s) ?
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Apologies for the above post, the bottom 2 paragraphs are my statements/questions
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Don’t know what I did wrong above, lets hope it works this time round though…
@Bulanikgirl
…and I did it with un-intimidated obliviousness, sometimes in high heels, sometimes in big builder’s boots. What other way was there?
I love how you have conveyed your approach to your job and your encounters within what sounds like a predominantly male industry. You seem to stay centered and not to try to become some ‘other’ kind of person but just to be who you are 🙂 . I am picturing you walking around on some big engineering construction site with some Jimmy Choo’s on now 🙂
Seriously though it sounds like you are confident, and knowledgeable in what you are talking about which clearly reassures the client and paves the way for the cohesive professional relationship. Men tend to be much more practical and pragmatic in terms of how they approach things/ideas so it must be satisfying to talk to a person whose initial appearance may belie her ability to do what needs to be done and be on that wavelength too.
That didn’t stop a scrap or 2! If they know you don’t back down, these nutters end up respecting you.
I guess that is the same with anyone who tries to intimidate or bully people. You do have to show them that you wont take any sh*te, lest they keep coming back to test you. A zero tolerance for any crap from the get go – most people will admire those traits in an individual.
Strange stuff some boys seem to like!
LOL, theres nowt so queer as folk 😉
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“I cannot understand the logic of inviting people into your country who you strongly suspect cannot assimilate.
Would you allow someone into your house who didn’t share your values, caused violence against you, and was a drain on your budget?”
I’m all for keeping hardened criminals out of this country, as well as followers of perverse religious ideologies. However, I don’t think admitting significant numbers of low-skilled immigrants (as the US has done with Mexicans in the past few decades) is necessarily undesirable. True, migrant families of low socioeconomic status are likely to increase demands on social services such as education and welfare, at least in the short-run. Crime might rise somewhat too. Nevertheless, less educated newcomers are likely to have high fertility rates, which helps to keep the overall population young and productive. In my view, having a relatively robust, immigrant-heavy workforce that may suffer from some social problems is preferable to rapid population aging and consequent economic stagnation (like that which is occuring in Japan and some parts of Europe).
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Take your “Deyyy be racist”-parroting and stick it up your ass…
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At the end of the day it does not matter who you fall in love wit. What matters is how that person makes you feel. Don’t miss out on your blessing because of race. If God wanted us to only date within our race he would not have made each of us unique.
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That is spot on! Although I’m insanely attracted to black women like Aïssa Maïga (100% black African) and I’m not in the least attracted to women like Halle Berry or Tyra Banks I will never date one because I wouldn’t be able to come to love mixed children. I’m sure that my parents wouldn’t have anything against me dating a black women as they are very tolerant and hospitable (and even if they weren’t I wouldn’t care about their opinion).
My views are not influenced by any religion since I’m an atheist, although my parents tried to rise me Catholic but they failed miserably.
So, you’re are right at least in my case.I do not want to have mixed children and that’s the only reason why I will never pursue a relationship with a black woman. I only recently admitted that to myself and before that I was looking for other excuses. Now I’m honest about it and it feels good.
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“I will never date one because I wouldn’t be able to come to love mixed children. … I do not want to have mixed children and that’s the only reason why I will never pursue a relationship with a black woman. I only recently admitted that to myself and before that I was looking for other excuses. Now I’m honest about it and it feels good.”
^^^ reminds me of Dr Francis Cress-Welsing theory re the WHITE fear of “white” genetic annihilation. Neely Fuller also believes that this reason/fear is largely the driving force behind white supremacy/racism.
I can give this troll at least a couple of points for his unadulterated racist (no excuses, no blaming others..) honesty!! I wish all white folks were this honest.
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@Matari
That’s exactly what I fear. I fear the annihilation of the white breed when women like Brigitte Bardot and Holly Brisley are no more. And I used to feel this way long before I came across 14-Words.
I don’t really know why you got so worked up over this. If a woman rejects a redheaded guy on procreative grounds (many sperm banks reject redheaded donors because nobody wants them anyway) that’s o.k. but as soon as race comes into the picture everybody tenses up and goes berserk. Like racial discrimination was worse that any other.
And yes we would be more open about it and cut the crap like “what about the children I don’t like them to be torn between two cultures” if the media didn’t ram the picture of the happy color blind-world down our throats and claim that it’s the only enlightened view.
If all the people were honest about their views we could happily avoid situations like that:
P.S.
Dr Francis Cress-Welsing is ridiculous. She stated that if white people like chocolate, coca-cola and other dark groceries that it is due to the lack of melanin and some racial complex. Magnitude of stupidity that can be rivaled only by astrology and feng shui.
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@Cromonch
You sound really confused. You say that you are attracted to BW yet would not have kids with her in the fear of white ‘race’ being eradicated? I’m pretty sure that white and black (and other) ‘races’ will not cease to exist in the foreseeable future whether you took an active part in it or not. Why the hell would anybody care what color of people there will be in the future?
Not loving your child is the most evil thing. The most evil. Please do not impregnate any women at all.
I didn’t know before, but I googled 14-Words: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fourteen_Words
So you’re a white nationalist?
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That cromomch must be a teen, or very ignorant guy. There is no “white race”. I thoughed we got done with that long ago. And lusting for a black woman? And not want to have babies because they might be wrong color? Grow up, jerk. You have been watching too many porn flicks and magazines, dude.
You marry your white cousin and you’ll have absolutely white kids who might be otherwise compromised. What then? Some pro active euthansia a la Tritten Reich? Zeesus what a moron.
If I met a good woman, I really would not hesitate one second. If she was black and our kids brown, all the better. They would be tomorrow anyways since the white is shrinking minority in the world already.
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@Cromonch:
Let me get this straight. You’re “insanely attracted to black women (100% black African), yet you “fear the annihilation of the white breed when women like Brigitte Bardot and Holly Brisley are no more.” (I’m assuming you use Bardot and Brisley as examples because you consider them beautiful and not just good actresses). Don’t you see how twisted and contradictory this is? Scientists have long suggested that characteristics we find attractive are often tied to our desire to perpetuate our genes.(We may or may not be conscious of this. No doubt you’d like women like Bardot and Brisley to perpetuate your genes, but apparently you’d like 100% African women to do the same. It’s also apparent that you are objectifying these Black women, and to some extent the White ones, too. Aside from the “physical interaction,” you’d want nothing to do with the Black ones. If you can’t love the child, I doubt if you could love or care for the woman. Sad.
I hope that when one of these 100% African woman sees you approaching, she crosses the street.
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*I don’t really know why you got so worked up over this.*
~ Would you mind showing me the sentence(s) where I got so worked up?
(Hint – If I got worked up every time I encountered a clueless white person/troll, like yourself, I would have died a really long time ago – likely of heart failure, or hypertension. lol)
*Dr Francis Cress-Welsing is ridiculous.*
~ FYI, I don’t find Dr.Welsing anymore ridiculous than you might find David Duke and/or Edgar Steele or Rush Limbaugh or Hitler.
*She stated that if white people like chocolate, coca-cola and other dark groceries that it is due to the lack of melanin and some racial complex.*
~ She is probably right! Makes perfect sense to me. Lots of black folks intuitively KNOW that many white folks want to be black! The problem with that is that white people can’t cope with the racism that black folks endure day after day, year after year. If you think I’m lying, Google Joshua Solomon, Silver Spring, MD. He couldn’t even handle just a little bit of racism…
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I’ve heard that we want to procreate with people whose immune system is as far of our own in order to produce the most resistant possible offspring. I suppose pheromones are the main messengers in delivering that information.
Just close your eyes and follow your nose! Sniff sniff!
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@Hannu Lipponen
I’m not a white nationalist for the following reasons:
1. Most of them think that the white race is superior in every regard (beauty, creativity, intelligence you name it) and I don’t. I’m not going to lie to my eyes and deny that some black women are mesmerizing whereas for them they are all apes.
2. They completely disregard ethnic tensions between white peoples of Europe and treat white folks as a homogenous group. That’s probably due to the American origin of the movement.
3. Overwhelming majority of white nationalists subscribe to the antiquated idea of Blood Purity and will readily exclude anybody who had a non white ancestor say 300 years ago. However quixotic and bewitching the idea of Limpieza de sangre might be it is not a valid position to take in the age of DNA testing when someones national identity might be shattered by one test. And even if we did not have the DNA testing what about Mongolian spots which are a giveaway of Asian ancestry (Amerindian ancestry is also Asian ancestry by extension).
4. Most of them are not willing to acknowledge that race mixing has been happening in Europe for a long time and since whey reject Ashkenazi Jews as non white (even those who look like Nicole Kidman, Kirk Douglas or Emmy Rossum – although Emmy looks unmistakably Jewish) which ordinary people don’t do they should be aware more than anybody else that mixing did happened given all the pogroms oftentimes followed by forced baptism of kidnapped Jewish children. Yet they are completely oblivious to that.
5. They are unduly preoccupied with Jewish admixture in some people but they completely disregard the role of Phoenician admixture in creating the genetic makeup of the modern South Italians. Not that I think there is anything wrong about it I just point out the inconsistency. They just seem to hate the Jews and do not notice that Phoenicians were also Semites.
6. I do not care about someones distant ancestors. The only thing that I’m concerned with is the phenotype. What looks white is white to me.
7. The term White Nationalism is self-contradictory. White is not a nationality so it should be White Racialism.
About me liking black woman. Well, I can recognize beauty in a woman of every race as long as there is something there that strikes my fancy. However I’m a separatist and I believe that race mixing is detrimental to diversity. If I married a woman of a different race I would be complicit in destroying not only my family’s line but also hers by having offspring that are amalgamation of randomly selected properties of both races that do not go well together.
I do not dislike children of any race (black included as long as they are pure African) but I hate race mixed people because their very existence mocks thousands of years of evolution of Homo Sapiens and makes me realize that in a couple of hundred years there might be no-one left who looks like Zhang Zilin, Aïssa Maïga and Anna Kournikova but only mongrels that look no better than a doberman poodle crossbreed.
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Although I’m insanely attracted to black women like Aïssa Maïga (100% black African)
Insanely attracted! Not just, a little bit but crazy with desire – mad for it almost yet still in denial!!!!!! I would urge ANY woman, black, white, other to steer clear – too much inner turmoil.
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@cromonch
I hate race mixed people because their very existence mocks thousands of years of evolution of Homo Sapiens and makes me realize that in a couple of hundred years there might be no-one left who looks like Zhang Zilin, Aïssa Maïga and Anna Kournikova but only mongrels that look no better than a doberman poodle crossbreed.
I have only ever posted once on here – I leave the rest to my wife, the more articulate of the two of us 🙂 but I felt compelled to come on here and express my absolute disgust in terms of what has been written. You dare to suggest that my children born of a white father and black mother are mongrels.
As has been the case for millions of years, self preservation of any species has only (in most cases) led to the a more refined, better equipped and outright better placed predator within their environment. I bracket (in most cases) due to the mixed up nature of some species to believe that preserving the race is paramount and thus going that extra mile and creating six fingered humanoids with two inch thick glasses for example is acceptable. From the monarchy to southern rednecks
6. I do not care about someones distant ancestors. The only thing that I’m concerned with is the phenotype. What looks white is white to me.
See links below, it is all I could I find in the seconds before deciding to post but proves a valid point. Your future white (in appearance wife) could well be a throw back leading to you bilssfully unaware of potentially producing a “MIXED CHILD” god help you and far more importantly them in future!!!!
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1380704/White-ram-37-white-ewes-produce-flock-entirely-BLACK-lambs.html
http://www.bbcworldnews.com/pages/ProgrammeFeature.aspx?id=41&FeatureID=957
However I’m a separatist and I believe that race mixing is detrimental to diversity
This comment only serves to highlight your ineptitude in general. I have kindly provided a definition of the word “diversity” for you below.
http://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/british/diversity?q=diversity
Normally, such rage flowing through my veins would cause some sort of outburst in firstly a verbal content followed (if deemed necessary) by a good a**e whipping but in your case, I only feel sorrow and sadness!!
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but only mongrels that look no better than a doberman poodle crossbreed.
With this kind of statement, you are not better than a cur except the only frightening thing about you is your ignorance which is truly shocking. Quite frankly, I couldnt care less where you desire to ‘stick your wick’ but as a commenter posted previously, I would urge ANY woman who encounters you not to get impregnated by you.
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@cromonch: “I do not dislike children of any race (black included as long as they are pure African) but I hate race mixed people because their very existence mocks thousands of years of evolution of Homo Sapiens and makes me realize that in a couple of hundred years there might be no-one left who looks like Zhang Zilin, Aïssa Maïga and Anna Kournikova but only mongrels that look no better than a doberman poodle crossbreed.”
You do know that russians are a real mix of slavic, fennougric and whole hodge podge of asian people? That is why Anna Kournikova looks so hot 😀 She is racially a real mongrel.
You really think that homo sapiens was white, dude? If you do, I recommend that you didi mau to the nearest bookstore or library or take some history lessons. Homo sapiens sapiens was anything but white originally. The reason why there are white homo sapienses is that during those not so funny days of ice age the population which lived furthest to the north had to develop less melanin in order to gain most vitamin D from the very pale sun. That is the only reason for the white skin. Your white skin too.
As for mongrels, check your family history. You might have a surprise or two in there, as the majority of americans are real mongrels indeed and good so. And also, you know which dogs are the sickest? Yes, the pure breeds. Mentally, physically and any which way. Purer the breed, the sicker the dog. It is a same thing with people.
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@Sam
No, pure breeds are not the sickest, mentally, physically or otherwise. Sorry. The more I read your posts, I personally think you are a white person pretending to be foreign of some kind….This is the Internet is it not where you can be whatever you want to be.
Besides, the first few times I read this blog, I always thought it was an inside job.
I mean Dave for example, he is not what he portrays himself to be. He also states that he is racist, and he probably is…..Besides, I have met him before…..LOL
The more I read this particular blog, the more I think that it is set up to draw people in so that they can get comfortable, speak their mind and then get set upon offline.
The same thing goes for the guy that writes the blog “Stuff that white people do”, and I always thought Abagond was the author of that blog too…..But anyway.
Inside job blog cointelpro scamorama.
@ Sam…..I read a post you wrote which I think was very disturbing indeed, so I don’t know what you are talking about….LOL
Of course, I could be wrong, but my instincts are telling me something else….Besides, if the person who writes this blog is who I think it is, that person is two faced and cannot be trusted.
Course, I could be wrong.
“Why so few white men marry black women”……I mean who really gives a shit….really…..The world does not revolve around white people. The way that Abagond posts this is like to go out with a white person is a badge of honour to be paraded around…..Oh, give me a break.
Beautiful people come in all races and faces and in the end it’s all down to love regardless of colour…..and that’s my opinion.
Cheerio for now.
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@Cromonoch
So white are not better in every respect, just some? You give a list of reasons why you are not a white supremacist, but you still sound like one. I don’t think you are misunderstood. I think you are exactly who you are.
You do know that there is no such thing as ‘pure’ race? That we all come from Africa and are originally black? White skin is not higher in evolutionary ladder, it’s just an adjustment to different geographical conditions. The human species is the only animal species that has been able to overcome those borders by using its intelligence and adapt with the help of technology.
You still sound like a very confused individual.
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There are no ‘pure breeds’. Why is it that some people have a hard time accepting the simplest scientific principles of human evolution?
It is not that hard.
Read a book. (Not Mein Umpf)
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@Omnipresent
The link that you posted concerns lambs. Give me one well investigated example of a genetic throwback where entirely white looking couple produced black child (not the other way around). By well investigated I mean that a paternity test was taken and there’s no doubt who the father is. And please don’ quote the history of Sandra Laing because they didn’t have DNA paternity tests at the time and only blood tests were performed.
I don’t know anything about heredity in lambs but I know that features such as blonde hair and blue or green eyes are recessive (green eyes are more recessive than blue) in humans. Straight hair are recessive too.
So please enlighten me how a couple with blue eyes and straight blonde hair can produce a black kid with dark kinky hair? I know that it is possible the other way around precisely because white genes are recessive and can be lurking in a black family for centuries without manifesting itself.
Besides in my neck of the woods I only need to worry about Semitic (Jewish) and Mongoloid throwbacks and I didn’t see any yet.
@Matari
“Lots of black folks intuitively KNOW that many white folks want to be black!”
And they need to change their crack dealers because it’s hogwash. People intuitively felt that the Sun rotated around the Earth or that the Earth was flat.
Chris Rock cogently summarized this issue:
“Shit, there ain’t a White Man in this room that would change places with me.
None of you! That’s right! None of you would change places with me………… and I’M RICH! That’s how good it is to be White. There’s a White-one-leg bus boy in here right now that won’t change places with my Black ass.”
The best quotation on the subject hands down. He’s right! It’s great to be white and I want my children to enjoy the same thing. You can call it the white privilege if you want. As a white person I feel as if nearly the whole world was marketing itself to me. All the best sitcoms have white people as main characters, animated films, history movies, most video games, commercials and the list goes on. If you’re white and you have an identity crisis then seriously I don’t know how you pulled this off.
Look at the map presenting official languages of African countries:
What do you see? Most of these countries adapted one of many white languages. And the same goes for both Americas. The world is a white person’s bitch. I highly doubt that any cracker in his right mind would like to be anything but white:
@Demerera
There’s no inner turmoil. If I’m physically attracted to somebody that’s just biology. I do not have to act on it. I bet many agnostics/atheists were at some point in their lives physically attracted to a sexy bible thumper but they didn’t even try to go for it. Are they confused? Do they too experience some inner turmoil? Just because you are drawn to somebody doesn’t mean that you have to cave to your whims and make your life shittier as a result.
So let me repeat after Louis C.K.: “I’m not saying that white people are better. I’m saying that being white is clearly better, who could even argue?”
And I want the same for my children!
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@bulanik: Ööh, I think so 😀
@happiness: Sorry but I have no idea what you are talkin about? I pretend to be what? I guess you have not seen my posts that much. If you had you would know that I really am a man from Finland and as white as humanbeings can get. I am somewhat older than the average around here.
“No, pure breeds are not the sickest, mentally, physically or otherwise.”
Well, according to all the scientific evidence, yes they are. Just look at any humanbeing that has a brother and sister as parents. The most pure human by breeding ever.
“This is the Internet is it not where you can be whatever you want to be.”
I just be me. I’m too old to pretend to be something else and I have no clue what good that does to anybody to pretend. I mean why would anyone do it, unless you are a kid who thinks its cool or something?
“I read a post you wrote which I think was very disturbing indeed, so I don’t know what you are talking about”.
Which one you mean? I have no clue.
“Beautiful people come in all races and faces and in the end it’s all down to love regardless of colour…..and that’s my opinion.”
Ööh, that happens to be pretty much my opinion too.
So in conclusion, I have no idea Happiness what you are trying to say to me. Maybe it is because english is not my first language but it would be nice if you could explain to me what you tried to say. Than you very much.
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@ Cromonch:
You left out the part where Louis CK says why he doesn’t want to go to the future.
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@Cromonch
There’s no inner turmoil. If I’m physically attracted to somebody that’s just biology. I do not have to act on it.
Nevertheless you found your way here – a blog that is discussing IR relations and the first thing you do is talk about the fact that you are ‘insanely’ attracted to ‘certain’ BW so, in a roundabout way you are acting on it.
It MUST be at the forefront of your mind for you to have considered it so much…
bet many agnostics/atheists were at some point in their lives physically attracted to a sexy bible thumper but they didn’t even try to go for it. Are they confused? Do they too experience some inner turmoil?
Yes quite simply. But its the mark of a person how they deal with it.This forum has become cathartic for you, dont try to tell me you can quell your desire for your whole life, though it would be highly irresponsible of you to act on it.
I am amused by your response to omnipresent…Besides in my neck of the woods I only need to worry about Semitic (Jewish) and Mongoloid throwbacks and I didn’t see any yet.
You dont get it do you – YOU wont necessarily see it in your ‘mate’ but, it might be present in your offspring. This has happened countless times, otherwise you wouldnt be so appalled by the ones that are ‘visible’ to you. Methinks you half know that you could get ‘caught out’ unwittingly. Again, I urge any woman to abstein from creating a new generation with you.
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@ Cromonch
You are giving atheists a bad name. It’s almost like you’re saying that since you’re an atheist you must be OBJECTIVE, hence you’re right? As an atheist myself, your logic defies belief (and most atheists believe in logic and science) and I find your position hugely offensive, since it’s neither objective nor logical.
You want white privileges for your children? An advice for you: fall in love who you really like: have kids with her: then FIGHT THE HELL OUT for your kid’s right to have EQUAL rights everybody is supposed to have! Harness your armor, wear that gauntlet, grab that morning star and get ready to wield it.
You are taking the pussywagon out. And pussywagons get surrounded by the restless natives anyway, lol!
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Louis CK is a satirist, right? Quite obvious to me.
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“I highly doubt that any crackerin his right mindwould like to be anything but white:”
There’s not much else for me to say to you. What you just wrote above (that part about RIGHT MIND) sums up – to a large degree – what black people have known about white folks for centuries. Racism/white supremacy takes “white” people OUT of their right mind – and you Cromonch – are our living and latest example of this all too common, familiar and frequent occurrence.
When blacks and whites communicate, we’re most often NOT even IN the same book, much less on the same page. Get your collective mind back! If it isn’t already too far gone.
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So please enlighten me how a couple with blue eyes and straight blonde hair can produce a black kid with dark kinky hair?
Maybe the mother was secretly pumping the milkman! Maybe her husband is of Irish descent and thus suffers from the Irishman’s curse(I’ll leave it up to one’s imagination). She had to get her lusts sated somehow!
Lots of black folks intuitively KNOW that many white folks want to be black
I disagree with this to a certain extent. I think they want black in them especially the women! This is what frightens the white men.
I highly doubt that any cracker in his right mind would like to be anything but white:
Crackerism 101 folks!
Just because you are drawn to somebody doesn’t mean that you have to cave to your whims and make your life shittier as a result.
That sound like the formulaic plots for Bodice Rippers. The man makes pretend he can’t stand the woman and vice versa. They finally figure out that they ‘doth liketh and lusteth after each other. Two thirds through these books they finally get their groove on for the next third! I’ve read many!
And I want the same for my children!
What children? The ones you had or are planning to have with your sister?
@Happiness:
You may be on to something! Sam has a pet reindeer with whom he communes with! His name is Jakko and he sometimes gets frustrated with Sam when Sam doesn’t understand his braying and groaning. You seem the combination of the cold and rough terrain(Finland, Ho joh toh!), makes the reindeer the smartest beings in the world. Here’s Jakko laughing at Sam:
http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRPTv91GON9leYkj6YDaKfYo0rGfBvIqyXCkxrNbSwqAwPXJz0o
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@herneith: Darn, you outed me again!
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@cronhomsAnd I want the same for my children!
@Herenith:- What children? The ones you had or are planning to have with your sister?
LMAO 🙂
This kind of guy will be ‘banging’ aimlessly away furiously to try and rid his head of these BW he is ‘insanely’ attracted to but cant have. I repeat – ANY woman who ends up with him has a whole mess of tumultuous baggage to deal with there…
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@Cromonch
Your excerpt from this clip is quite misleading as to my mind, the guy is talking in a ‘tongue in cheek way’ about white privilege. He even says that they will ‘F’ us in the a**’ in the future and we deserve it!!! Acknowledging how fortunate he is to be white and in particular, a white male! If you look through the blogs that abagond writes, this is a common theme which many are in denial about.
BTW, this guy has a really diverse racial background, part Jewish, part Mexican, part Irish which probably informs his ‘act’…how bout that! But of course you knew that cos you could tell just by looking at him…..right?
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@demerera: Comedy is hard to understand if you do not understand it.
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Hannu, I think rather that to belong to a race, you have to be purebred, an admixture exceeding 12.5% makes you raceless.OK, these concepts come mostly tiger breeding and horse breeding. (Interesting points they have in common, true breeds/races breed true, except for their zero-value in conservation breeding there is nothing wrong with the hybrid and whites most certainly do represent a horror which should be reduced in size.)
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Sam, you are aware that some researchers think that the European white skin only evolved after the introduction of ariculture at such a scale that seeds of grasses (botanically speaking) became the main foodstock.
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I’ve dated a few black women and it’s always the same problem. Most black women are the most boring people when it comes to sex. Hispanic women are the best and black women are the worse when it comes to good sex from a man’s point of view.
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“Lee Bollinger
I’ve dated a few black women and it’s always the same problem. Most black women are the most boring people when it comes to sex. Hispanic women are the best and black women are the worse when it comes to good sex from a man’s point of view.”
Then, stay away.
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@ Lee Bollinger
LOL….So stick to what you like……Everyone can’t like the same thing.
Nobody asked you to go out with a black woman….Stick to what pleases you.
Besides, maybe the black women who have been out with you and in bed with you were displeased with you because you couldn’t get it up….LOL…..I’m only kidding of course, but you get the picture, maybe they thought YOU were boring.
Your comment is so general…..It’s a bit like saying all white men are sick perverts who like to stalk women. Is that necessarily true for every white man?
The thing about Abagond’s website is that there are all sorts of people on here, which of course gives me a good chuckle when I drop in to quickly skim through.
You have to laugh.
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White people enjoy a position of power across the world. I think this is right,the fact that marriage between black women and white men is so rare is not an accident. I wish I had a pound for every time a white man said to me ‘i’ve never had a black girl before and would like to try one’. I find this patronising, Most white men who date black women will never marry them. They like to have sex with them but do not want mixed race children. Black women are seen as less valuable in society in general despite the fact they are most hard working.
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How are white men racist for wanting white kids and a woman most like them? That’s only a natural desire. We can’t blame whites for their preferences. Why do we even care or want them trying to date us more? I’m sorry but we focus on some of the silliest things!
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@dbx
The general idea, that racism influences who people are attracted to, is perfectly reasonable and so is the conclusion that racism affects how white men see black women.
Naturally, there are other ways to reach that conclusion. For example, quite a few comments on this blog seem to be written by people who believe in black superiority and think that white men generally are disingenuous and racist when they say they prefer white women, because deep down inside they are supposed to see black women as very attractive if not irresistible. Especially Ankhesen Mie’s drones seem to think along these lines.
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Maybe many white men don’t want bad genetics. Every test of African Americans show their IQ’s to average 85. That’s been steady for as long as IQ tests have existed. Why ruin your genetics? Having dark skinned children will put them at a disadvantage in society. Why have your kids at a disadvantage? Black men on the other hand, want to marry white women. It’s a way to improve your genetics. White men go for Asian women and let’s face it, they have white skin and higher IQ’s. Those men are increasing their genetics too, just like black men. It’s all driven by choosing the most desirable mates… and mixing with women with higher IQ’s is an advantage, as well as white skin.
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@ Annie,
A few things:
1. Those tests were disproven a long time ago. There are black geniuses, black smart people, black dumb people, etc. You can’t judge IQ by skin tone.
2. Not all black women have dark skin, and those who do are only impeded by a bad society, not their own genes.
3. Black men do not all WANT to marry white women because they are white. It’s called sexual attraction or love, and they’re allowed to have genuine feelings for women.
4; Asian women do not have higher IQs as a whole. Asians are not a monolith, and many have skin as dark as black women can have.
5. Marrying white does not “increase” your genetics. Genetics do not work that way.
6. White women are not more desirable due to some attraction by people, just by a racist system invested in keeping them “desirable”.
7. The only advantage one gets from white skin is a social pass, not better genes.
And finally the kicker…
The question is why so few men MARRY black women, not sleep with them. Plenty sleep with them. If they were truly worried about “genetics” they wouldn’t do that. You don’t get genetics by just marrying someone.
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IQ tests are off topic here.
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abagond writes, “IQ tests are off topic here.”
Oh, yeah? Why is that — because it’s an argument you can’t win?I noticed on another thread that black supremacy and affirmative action were off topic as well. Are white supremacy and segregation off topic, too? No? Why not?
I’ll tell you what. Why don’t you go ahead and make a list of all the subjects that are “off topic” so I’ll know which ones you’ve already conceded. 🙂
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@ destructure
You have your own blog, go rant there. Here I try to keep threads at least somewhat on topic. I have posts on IQs, etc. Even one on your bud Steve Sailer. I am not going to have you hijack any old thread you feel like to rant about your pet topics. If you are too high and mighty to follow the rules like everyone else then I will ban you.
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@ destructure,
Oh good god. What don’t you get? It’s called staying on topic. There have been posts with that subject that people comment on. This is about white men marrying black women, not your made up, already disproven IQ statistics or black supremacy, affirmative action “I’m gonna whine because my white skin doesn’t guarantee me everything on a silver platter” bull. If you think people have conceded crap to you just because they follow the rules set by the creator of this blog, then how “white” of you.
@ Bulanik,
I’ts just crazy. Bigots are very entitled these days.
@ Abagond,
Is this a useful troll? Funny how in a thread about why so few white men marry black woman, he’s decided that following rules proves black people are inferior and can’t come up with a counter argument. Even threads about black women can be argued with a red herring like IQ.
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abagond
No problem. I mistakenly thought you were being selective in enforcing the policy since I was just responding to someone else’s comments. Also, it looks like someone just violated your warning by bringing it up right after you expressly said not to. Anyway, thanks for directing me to the comment policy. I’ll try to follow it from now on.
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In this thread, Abadong asks “Why so few white men marry black women”? That’s an excellent question that I really couldn’t care less about. Because I’m just more concerned about getting my own groove on than where someone else gets theirs. But I’ll admit she gives a good summary of the answers one normally hears. Unsurprisingly, Abadong rejects most of these answers in order to reach the favored conclusion of “whitey be rayciss”.
In fact, her #1 answer is:
1. White men are racist: They do not want their sons and daughters to be black.
Pardon me, but let’s take a second look at her evidence. Abadong “Look[s] at the percentage of married Americans in 2006 who were married outside their race” and says “It is white people who stick most to their own kind, not black women – or even Asian men.”
But is that what the evidence really shows? I’m not sure one can look at the percentages and determine who the limiting factor is. Abadong assumes the reason more white men don’t marry black women is because only 2.2 % of white men are willing to marry black women. But couldn’t one just as easily say that the reason more white men don’t marry black women is because only 3.6 % of black women are willing to marry them? Perhaps more white men would marry more black women if more black women were willing. And I think that’s a tragedy. When I think of all the white men out there desperately looking for some black action and those selfish women of color keeping all their sweet brown sugar to themselves I’m just too broken up for words.
So I’m going to make a special, heart felt appeal to black women right now — Will you please give us white mens a chance?
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I live in a South American country. The black women here are beautiful, a joy to be with, attentive, appreciative and not the least bit racist…or maybe they are because they far prefer to be with white men who treat them so well.
I will leave it to others to speculate on why the American black women are not interested in white men. It certainly isn’t because I’m a racist.
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There are a lot of comments here, so please forgive me if somebody already brought up this point.
I notice that black men prefer light-skinned black women as well. So it seems there is some colorism going on within races and not just between races.
For the record, I am Jewish and my own kids are half South Indian – and probably darker than many of y’all.
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@findingstephanie
My claim that the stats don’t show white men are more reluctant to marry black women than the reverse is valid. But I’m happily married so I wasn’t entirely sincere with my heart-felt plea.
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@jewamongus
I’m glad that you wre able to find some objective stats on that, despite the prevalance of dark-skinned black women in pin-up/ fashion modelling , acting, and pornography.
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I think you are racist. I am white and have a black wife and saying white men are racist is playing the race card again. Races tend to isolate in their own groups. Asians seem to integrate themselves into white groups succesfully thus they interconnect and marry more. What we should be doing is promoting ways to get races to intermingle more. So what don’t you just start a free dating site up where different races can meet and date instead of righting a stupid ass article. P.S. I love my black wife and I am white as I said. The saying is true, “once you go black you never go back.” sorry white ladies guess I’m racist against whites now.
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I am a white man. You can give me that juicy, sweet brown sugar juice any day over that white stuff. The darker the berry, the sweeter and wetter the juice!! I love black women!!
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I am a white male happily married to a white female, but I know sevrl white dudes who are mariried to black women, and they ALWAYS have smiles on their faces! Those ladies must be doing something right!
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“White men are racist: They do not want their sons and daughters to be black.”
How can you blame the whites? Things are changing, but few whites really want to marry blacks. I don’t think that’s racist. To me “racism” necessarily carries a negative connotation. But if one does not want to marry outside of their race, is that necessarily racist? I don’t think so. Everybody is allowed to have their own personal preferrences in their personal life without being calleda derogatory term, i.e, racist. I would apply this to black, whites, and everyone who does not prefer to maryy/date outside their race.
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I’m white, but think a lot of black women are VERY good-looking!! I also realize that racism cuts both ways. For example, you mention about their mixed children being “black”. Why black, why not “mulatto”? why is Obama called “black” & Zimmerman called “white”? – They are both 1/2-white, right? I believe that sometimes people understand that it will be hard on both themselves & the children to fit in with either group, in a mixed marriage, so they don’t want to aim for grief. I’m not so sure that blacks are more accepting of white inlaws than vice-versa, but poor people tend to care less about $$ & more about happiness, so poor people likely intermarry more, both ways.
Trying to not generalize too much, but I think people tend to want to marry into better economic conditions, and for many people of all races, that traditionally would seem to mean “white”, though not necessarily, and all that is increasingly changing as more blacks increase their education & make more in the way of better jobs & careers. I grew up poor white. Believe me, rich whites don’t like to marry poor whites, either, and to interpret it all as racism isn’t being fair, honestly.
One thing I do have a problem with…is severe obesity and spoiled women, neither of which is a race issue, per se, but a lot of white women seem rather spoiled to me, which is a turn off. I guess even more so after the cr@p I put up with at work in an office full of women, where the white women were quite disdainful of men in general, IMO.
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@Rickey
but I know sevrl white dudes who are mariried to black women, and they ALWAYS have smiles on their faces! Those ladies must be doing something right!
Its nice when relationships radiate happiness – whatever their racial make up tbh.
@William Noack
Trying to not generalize too much, but I think people tend to want to marry into better economic conditions, and for many people of all races, that traditionally would seem to mean “white”.
Hmmm. I’m not saying you’re wrong in all cases but, there are other considerations when you embark on a serious IRR namely what you touched on earlier in your post i.e. the offspring of such relationships.
Regardless of race, relationships based on finance alone must struggle to go the distance.
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Has someone already stated that most people married within their said “race”?
Black women are not marrying white or other men in droves because well over 90% of the time they have a black husband.
Black men are not marrying white or other women in droves because they are well over 90% of the time to have a black wife.
OT: 88% of black men who earn over 100,000 a year have–ding ding–black wives.
IR marriage is on the rise and is higher than it has ever been in this country but inspite of this and despite all of the bs the U.S. has put us through–black folks still are in love with other black folks.
You should not have to explain to anyone why you married who you married and it should not be based off someone’s color or the sick notions of white supremacy i.e. white men/white women make better partners. In all of the combinations of IR relationships that I have seen–the ones that are truly strong marriages–is where the husband or wife is able to love and embrace the opposite sex of their spouse’s community as a sister or brother. Meaning black men who have non black wives–if she truly loves him–will love and connect with black women as sisters (not as a competitor). If a black woman is married to a non black man–if he truly loves her–he will be able to connect with other black men on brotherly terms. You get my drift.
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“OT: 88% of black men who earn over 100,000 a year have–ding ding–black wives”
I stated this to dispel the myth of successful black men marrying non black women.
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@phoebeprunelle
In all of the combinations of IR relationships that I have seen–the ones that are truly strong marriages–is where the husband or wife is able to love and embrace the opposite sex of their spouse’s community as a sister or brother. Meaning black men who have non black wives–if she truly loves him–will love and connect with black women as sisters (not as a competitor). If a black woman is married to a non black man–if he truly loves her–he will be able to connect with other black men on brotherly terms.
Makes sense Phoebe 😉
You get my drift.
Loud and clear 🙂
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@phoebeprunelle
@Demerera
As black people, we gotta love us first, before we can love everybody else on the planet…Ditto! This is the fundamental point that non-blacks overlook in relation to IR relationships. It’s important that black people have a basic understanding of what motivates others to involve themselves with black people sexually speaking. All human beings were african first, therefore, all human beings have an affinity for black people and culture. “Black Again” is the term i use to describe the mindset. Inter-racial is a simple concept, it’s not rocket science. Think about it from this perspective sistas? Inter-racial can’t exist without Black Love, and, Black Love can’t be fully appreciated without Inter-racial. Black people have duality, we can maximize our sexuality in relation to others, and at the same time, remain true to ourselves and our race…Have Cake…Will Eat! “Blackness Is The Ultimate Aim & Objective.” This is the motto that i live by…Always!
Tyrone
Black=Power
Brown=Sweetness
Gold=Seed
B.E.M
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@tyrone
All human beings were african first, therefore, all human beings have an affinity for black people and culture.
Does this work where you’re employed also? I’m just asking. What I mean is, can you just make up what ever you want, say whatever damn fool thing pops into your head at your place of employment, and be taken seriously?
I see too many blacks and other Abagondites do this here. They just say anything, taken to any extreme, and expect to be taken seriously.
Your logic is absolutley appalling. Just because all human evolved in Africa and some left about 80-100,00 yrs ago does NOT, by any stretch of the imagination, mean that they will all be attracted to Africans today?
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To those white men on here referring to bw as brown sugar and talking about how how the juice is better etc. Do you not see how those comments can be seen as offensive to black people. Yall could of as easily said give me a beautiful, intelligent, honest bw etc. but yall choose to use sexually suggestive language to describe your “love” for bw. If you’re a wm who truly “loves” bw, then you should be trying to stay as clear away from hypersexualizing bw as possible due to the history both groups have together of hypersexualization.
Im a black man btw. I prefer to see bw with bm, but if they are going to date out I at least hope that it is for genuine intentions on both sides.
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“RyanB: I dunno, I think some White men are just genuinely nervous about approaching Black women. Like, they don’t know how to do it, and are scared to put themselves out there.
But, in general, I’ve found that White men are quite interested in Black women. Hell, I’ve dated tons of White men. And they always open with “I’ve always had these crushes on Black women…””
Ameeeeeeeen! You hit the nail on the head!
“To those white men on here referring to bw as brown sugar and talking about how how the juice is better etc. Do you not see how those comments can be seen as offensive to black people. Yall could of as easily said give me a beautiful, intelligent, honest bw etc. but yall choose to use sexually suggestive language to describe your “love” for bw. If you’re a wm who truly “loves” bw, then you should be trying to stay as clear away from hypersexualizing bw as possible due to the history both groups have together of hypersexualization.
Im a black man btw. I prefer to see bw with bm, but if they are going to date out I at least hope that it is for genuine intentions on both sides.”
I understand and applaud your intentions, however, although we all have preferences, Its socially polite to keep ones such as “I prefer to see bw with bm” to ourselves. Really, you shouldn’t have any “preference” as to what you want to see in OTHER PEOPLES relationships, you shouldn’t even be looking at or judging someone else’s relationships based on such trivial things as race, skin tone, education, or social status. It’s that kind of thinking that leads to racial supremecy. Even Hitler had to start somewhere, and I submit to you that that kind of thinking is likely where he started.
Just my thoughts on it, don’t take it personal.
I love black women and I am a white man, but it is not because of skin tone or race specifically. I prefer (a preference for MY relationships) black women because they most often embody these attributes of any group of women I have encountered.
1. Physical Beauty (which is in the eye of the beholder anyway)
Black women tend to possess shapely figures supported by lovely faces and amazing eyes (my god the eyes!). Also, I find a greater percentage of black women are beautiful when compared to the percentage of beautiful white women. Even many overweight black women can be considered beautiful by men who are not overweight. Skin tone is a part of their beauty yes, but as the Backstreet Boys claimed; “What makes you different makes you beautiful”. My preference of black women due in part to their skin tone is not intended to be racist or hurtful in any way to anyone, it is just a part of who I am. It is what makes me, me. (as opposed to overweight white women) (Note: this reason is largely my opinions)
2. Wonderful Personality
I don’t know why this one happens, but so many black women tend to be nicer than white women in general. They are kinder, more caring, and loving. They also tend to be rather independent, strong, level-headed, and smart. The best part is that many retain both great intelligence and great beauty, as opposed to white women, where one must often be sacrificed for the other. (Note: This one is a generalization of black women as a whole, not a description of every single black woman and white woman out there)
3. Spiritually mature
I am a Christian. That should be noted first and foremost (maybe I should have put it at the top of this comment). Thus when I date a woman, one of the first things I look for is spiritual maturity even if she is not a Christian. One thing I will also do, if she is not one of the redeemed is ensure that she is at least open to the idea of changing and learning a new lifestyle (as I will date, but not marry a non-Christian). Black women tend to have a good grip on their spiritual lives, regardless of their religion or beliefs. They also seem to be devout and consistent in this area, yet remain open to new messages and ideas, and carefully consider each one instead of just discarding them. (Note: This one is a generalization of black women as a whole, not a description of every single black woman out there)
Final Note: These reasons listed above are not intended to be racist, segregative, cruel, or offensive in any way. This is just MY two cents, and my reasons for loving black women. I find them logical, straightforward, and politically correct. Black women; stand tall! You have much to be proud of and remember; whatever you believe you were wonderfully made, created beautiful every one of you! You deserve to be adored, so find the man who does, get to know him inside and out, then if he truly loves and respects you; marry him, regardless of race!
After all, we’re all the same colour when the lights go off!
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Furthermore;
“A quintessential example: the first time Shadoe Stevens, star of Hollywood Squares and host of American Top 40, the most-listened-to pop-music radio show in the world, saw his wife, Beverly, a former international model, the fireworks, he says, were explosive and instant. “The first time I saw her,” says Shadoe, 42, “I couldn’t move. She was so beautiful and I don’t mean just physically. She had this incredible aura about her, it was in her eyes. When I looked at her there was this great blinding flash in the universe. I kept staring at her and thinking, I’ve got to get to know her. I never thought about color and had no feeling about it one way or the other. I guess the feeling was mutual. Beverly later told me she had to get out of there because she felt like she was 14 all over again. It was quite overwhelming.”
Overwhelming may be the understatement of the year. Beverly and Shadoe’s initial meeting occurred during the day at Shodoe’s L.A. production studio, Shadoevision. However, he was so taken with her, he couldn’t let even a single day pass before seeing her again. And so he devised a plan. “I told a friend of mine he had to get her back there,” he recalls. “I told him to ask her is she could sing and invite her back that night. He did, Beverly said yes, and that evening we ended up singing a song together I’d written called ‘Oh, You Make Me Perspire.’ It was hilarious and intense. Basically, we’ve never been apart since then.””
This is how I (and likely a substantial amount of white men) would relay our feelings toward a black woman we have met/dated/fell in love with/married. In 99% of the cases it’s not because of race. It’s because we’ve found that one person that makes our world keep turning. It’s because of love.
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It is easy to see that, due to marriage preferences, many Black women and Asian men will have a much smaller pool of partners to choose from, whether from their own race or outside their race. White women also have a smaller white pool than white men, but some of the slack might be filled by them marrying Blacks or Hispanics.
It looks like in order to fill the slack, more Asian men should seek Black female partners. But, that isn’t happening to a large extent. Perhaps we need a blog post on that
Asian-American men may also need to consider to seek an option of looking for spouses from overseas, and indeed, some of them probably do. But do many Black women do that (of ANY nationality or race, or mixture thereof)? Any study about that?
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Well it is ridiculously presumptuous to say white male / black female relationships are scarce because white men are racist. Perhaps black women tend not to prefer white men just as white men don’t tend to prefer them? I personally do not often find the darker complexions in my idea of good looks, but that’s just something can’t help. For a relationship to be stable the pair has to not only enjoy each others personalities, but also be physically attracted to one another. The importance of the latter necessity varies, of course, when the former is able to overwhelm it, but it still is impacting. But when getting to know someone, you look for common ideals and agreeable values. A middle-class white, catholic male isn’t limiting his options because he is racist, but rather because he’ll typically find more in common with a middle-class white, catholic female. Of course there are some racist bastards out there, but I don’t like to consider them as part of the general public because they skew the perceived reasoning behind these types of numbers with their egregious behaviors. They are the true second-class citizens and shan’t be associated with the whole.
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@Jefe,
That’s where you are wrong…there is NO shortage of eligible black men for black women!
That is an urban legend that has been floating around in various media outlets (t.v., internet, radio shows) for the past twenty years to further distabilize and discourage black people from seeking each other out…fortunately for black people that hasn’t worked; according to the latest U.S. Census at least 88-90% of ALL married black men have black wives…and so forth and so forth…
Interracial marriage is an option for many black men and women yet somehow when analyzing the stats it tends to take a backseat to intra-racial unions between black people whenever possible.
And just so you know, IR marriage for Asian Americans is slowly tapering off as more Asian Americans are dating/marrying each other more–this is because more Asian immigrants are coming to the US and they have more choices in their communities…
I wish folks would stop acting like white people are the answer to all POC romantic notions…smh
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@phoebeprunelle–
there is NO shortage of eligible black men for black women!
According to the stats, there are 1.8 million more black American females than males. That spells shortage. Added to that, approximately 50% of black American males drop out of high school, and in some urban areas, the Black male dropout rate is as high as 75%. So, you must be counting dropouts, homeless, incarcerated, substance abuser, and non existent black males as eligible.
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And you must not be familiar with Toldson’s research, Morton’s research, and Dr. Hill’s research that debunk those twisted stats and urban legends…
Keep doing what you do Jorbia…spreading lies and misinformation about black people.
Please ma’am in the future, don’t direct any of your comments to me…i’d much rather not debate with black people who hate other black people on a black blog.
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@phoebeprunelle–
I will continue to combat the lies. The stats I mentioned are widely reported in numerous publications, but obviously not in your Toldson Bible. There are no hidden black American men. You are engaging in fantasy thinking and you want other Black American women to join you.
It’s Black people like you who must really hate other Black Americans. You continue to spread fantasies about how well Black Americans are doing when everyone can see that Black Americans are dealing with some very serious problems. Then you blame any problem that your fantasies can’t contain or hide on others.
50% of Black American males drop out of high school! Even Black publications report that figure and the others I mentioned. Not fantasy figures. Grab your Toldson Bible and try to erase that stat.
Sorry, I’m not following the Black American party line about the myth of these eligible Black American men. Now, go ahead and call me names.
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^I just asked you politely to not direct your comments to me.
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Despite the urban myths being perpetuated by other black people…. if you are a person who wants the truth here are the correct set of stats:
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There are also 4 million more white women than white men in this country. An often ignored fact that puts a damper on the “hopeful fantasy” of desperate black women who like to quote the population disparity between blacks. Especially when you factor in that white men pick every other group of women (and probably become bi-curious) before they even think to touch black women.
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@phoebeprunelle
Ha-ha, that video is about the school district where I went to school. 😛
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^I just asked you politely to not direct your comments to me.
Then don’t mention my name either, as you did above. Besides, no one needs to mention names to point out lies.
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Especially when you factor in that white men pick every other group of women (and probably become bi-curious) before they even think to touch black women
In that case, tell Black American men to mind their own business and keep their mouths shut when they see black women out with white men. Tell them that these white men are not touching us.
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Black men aren’t the hyper-irrational ones who have been making ego-soothing blogs and movies lambasting “dead beat blacks of the opposite gender” to create a child like, “grass is greener”, fantasy that goes against all real world evidence. We, by and large, don’t care. Stop with the pathetic victim mentality.
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Back and forth with this sh*t again? /groan
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@ Gen
I’m not getting sucked into this same crap, again.
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Stop with the pathetic victim mentality.
I hope you are also telling Black American men to shut their mouths and mind their own business about Black women going out with men who are not Black. You don’t own Black women.
You and your cohorts need to stop trying to deny reality. That’s what’s pathetic. Most people know about the high dropout rate, incarceration rate and other issues of Black American males, but as soon as any Black American like me deviates from the party line and mentions it, the soul patrol jumps out to try to shut that person up by making ridiculous statements like “There is no shortage of eligible Black American men for Black American women.” Not true and anyone with a piece of brain can see this.
Black Americans need to look inward to solve some of these problems and the first step to doing that is to admit that Black Americans do have these problems.Next, they themselves must solve the biggest part of these problems. No one else.
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This is my last response to you in this thread, Jorbia.
Trying to goad me into a back-n-forth, by being intentionally stupid/dishonest with feel good, copy-n-paste, slogans (many of which that have been put to rest numerous times in the past) and blatant Red Herrings isn’t going to work. Respond to me when you learn to refute the actual points being made, and when you learn how to argue in good faith. Until then, you’re a waste of time, because you actively choose not to listen to any sort of rationale.
Now go ahead and claim victory because I can’t handle a “skrong” woman…
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This is my last response to you in this thread, Jorbia.
Trying to goad me into a back-n-forth,
Trying to goad you? Not trying to hurt your feelings, but you’re not important to me. You’re now blaming me for your lack of control? Remember that you don’t have to respond to me and that would make my day.That’s under your control.
If I’m a “waste of time” then how intelligent are you to respond to me? What you mean is that you can’t counter my points because my points are obvious and widely reported.
You’re simply a member of the soul patrol who is trying to dictate and control what Black American women think and say. You’re so ordinary. I expect you to say what you say.
“Claim victory” would be silly. What have I won?
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@Jefe
Oh i’m sure it is…much like it is about many school districts across the U.S.–see the following:
(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mdHqZcP_x5s&feature=relmfu)
Anyway, on the flip side it would seem that the same game is being played on black girls as their drop out rate stands at 40%…it doesn’t take rocket science to figure out that these character assassinations are being waged on black children (that includes girls and boys!)….
My take on the post is this in a nutshell: black men and black women are free to marry whomever they please…i have said that numerous times during these type of online discussions…
What shouldn’t happen is the blatant lies being told to explain/express why a black person chooses to date/marry a non-black person: btw certain groups of black men and black women are both guilty of participating in this rhetoric online..
1. There is no shortage of marriagable black men for black women who desire them as partners; black women are earning degrees at a faster rate than black men, but all research supports that black men still earn on average 75,000 or more a year than black women in occupations such as truck drivers, firefighters, construction workers, etc…if you measure having a degree as the only thing that qualifies a black men to be successful, then therein lies the problem. (Nationally)
2. 66% of Black women in the D.C. area who have advanced degrees were married compared to 26% of those with only a high school diploma. The figures are almost identical in Atlanta.
3. 88% of black men who have a personal income of 100,000 a year or more have black wives. (Nationally)
4. No one ever mentions the fact that white women outpace white men in earning degrees as well, or that the only group of males who outpace black men in earning degrees are Asian men.. (Nationally)
5. For black men who do earn degrees, those who earn them from HBCUs earn three times more than those who graduate from historically white universities…
6. Black women are not these STD infected women that the media loves to pick on…the CDC has yet to issue a retraction for falsely reporting that 59% of black women nationally were infected with HSV II last year…they purposely failed to tell the public that their research was gathered from patients being treated at one STD clinic who may have only been carriers of the virus and that they left out a very, very important demographic–the black middle class which has more than tripled in the last 30 years.
Now what is my personal stake in all of this? I am a young black woman, when these lies and half truths keep getting repeated people are lumping my brothers, my sister, my niece, my nephew and a whole slew of other family and friends and me into that pot of piss and this is when i start calling bulls**t.
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@ Phoebe
Do you have a source for any of those bullet points? (Mainly the last two.) Because I could use that for future use.
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but all research supports that black men still earn on average 75,000 or more a year than black women in occupations such as truck drivers, firefighters, construction workers, etc…if you measure having a degree as the only thing that qualifies a black men to be successful, then therein lies the problem.
This is misdirection. It’s not the only thing. It’s not “just” about money. Most Black American women with a college degree or graduate education in most fields would not be compatible with most men who are truck drivers, firefighters, and construction workers because higher education, in many cases, broadens a person’s perspectives, exposes them to other interests and changes their tastes in most things. A minority of Black women, of course, would. However, most men and women in these lines of work would also not be comfortable in each others’ social circle.
The soul patrol may say this is due to self-hate, but not true. It’s for the same reason that white people who are blue collar workers don’t often socialize with or marry white collar or professional white people. When it does happen, it’s usually the white man professional who marries his secretary. It would be hard to find white women lawyers, professors, computer systems analysts, accountants who marry truck drivers. Also, a Black American man who is a professional rarely marries a Black woman who cleans his office. So, why should a professional Black woman do this? It rarely works even when she does, if you read the findings on these mismatched marriages.
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2. 66% of Black women in the D.C. area who have advanced degrees were married compared to 26% of those with only a high school diploma. The figures are almost identical in Atlanta.
The Black on Black divorce rate is also the highest, mostly due to mismatched couples. These figures are also widely reported figures. You can deny them if you want.
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3. 88% of black men who have a personal income of 100,000 a year or more have black wives. (Nationally)
However, here’s the latest, which points to the new trend: Approximately 25% of Black men in America who got married in 2008, married women who were not black, according to PEW research center.
Added to this, Black American men are the least married men of all groups. Their low marriage rate is widely reported.
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4. No one ever mentions the fact that white women outpace white men in earning degrees as well,
It’s not “only” about money or degrees, it’s also about the comfort level with each other. Only those 2 people know that. The soul patrol needs to stay out of it.
I read on a site that Bill Gates dropped out of college. His wife probably finished college. It’s about 2 people finding that they are “equals” and that’s up to those 2 people, only. The soul patrol should not try to influence a Black woman who is a school assistant principal to be with a Black man who is a truck driver just because they’re both Black. He’s most likely not going to be comfortable in her professional or social circle. He won’t fit in. He will feel insecure and this will cause arguments. Then divorce.
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@Franklin,
Most of the points comes from Ivory A. Toldson and Bryant T. Marks:
http://www.empowermagazine.com/new-research-shatters-myths-and-provides-new-hope-for-black-love-and-marriage/
Also, if you are interested, Janks Morton and Lamont Hill have also added their own findings in a documentary called “Hoodwinked”…you can access it through http://www.whatblackmenthink.com, and despite popular belief, black women are very much a part of the discussions over there.
The others:
http://www.theroot.com/views/behind-herpes-numbers
http://www.ehow.com/facts_5547257_advantages-hbcu.html…i can’t find the other article on this right now but i’ll dig some more.
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My personal stake in all of this is that ever since I went out for the first time in this country with a man who wasn’t Black, I’ve been targeted for direct and sly attacks by other Black Americans. It’s no one’s business who I romantically choose, yet some Black American men think they can dictate to me, and other members of the soul patrol have tried to force me, through name-calling and smearing of my reputation to make me bow to their will.
Just look at what I’ve experienced here whenever I’ve mentioned that I go out with white men. I don’t have to hide that. I can say that anywhere I want. The attempt is made to bludgeon Black American women into never admitting she likes any man who isn’t Black. I happen to feel strongly that men are men and I will spend time with men I like who know how to treat me. I know some Black American women who feel that they must sneak around to go out with white men. They’re scared to even say they like any man who’s not Black. I refuse to be bludgeoned into feeling I’m doing something wrong. So call me names and smear all you want. I will not bow down to the soul patrol.
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Darn it moderation again!
Forgot to add Franklin that in some articles the CDC reported 48% and in others 59%, just goes to show that this is a game.
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I’ll never understand it.Besides,the woman in that family photos is gorgeous.I’ve always preferred black women,not as any conviction but via experience.Granted, I’ve always thought they were better looking.Most I’ve known have had better personalities and solid backbones,for the long term.
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“6.Lack of desire among black women: Among Americans, black women are the least likely to marry outside their race.
“That last one is dead wrong. Look at the percentage of married Americans in 2006 who were married outside their race:”
The subject is “Why So Few White Men Mary Black Women.” You give a list of races and the percentages of those who marry out. Then you say #6 is “dead wrong.”
There seems to be a confusion of marrying any races and marrying white men.
Because blacks are a miority, percentages will always magniny an issue. If you look at the numbers, instead, you will see fewer black women marrying out than anyone. If you look at white men and black women marriages, you will see even fewer.
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Historically white and hispanic males have not married black, HOWEVER as I have pointed out in other posts using the absolute most current census data I have come to find an exponential rate of growth in the interracial marriage trends of white males and black females. I have mathematically shown that before the year 2075 there should be the same number of WM/BF marriages as there are BM/BF marriages – IF TRENDS CONTINUE AS THEY HAVE OVER THE LAST 30 TO 50 YEARS TO THE CURRENT ERA.
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I don’t know what I was expecting when I came to this site, but I’m certain it wasn’t this. To me this is all absurd.
Personal Preference is personal preference and all the politically correct tyranny in the world isn’t going to change that. If anything trying to force someone into something they don’t want is only going to compound and intensify their rebelliousness.
I mean who the hell’s business is it anyway if I don’t want to date a black woman, white woman, European woman or whatever. How exactly is it that it so rips and tears your life asunder and turns it topsy-turvy if I don’t date a black woman?
The answer is it doesn’t. Not one iota, not one tiny little speck is your life changed in any way shape or form because I’m not out there dating a black woman. Nope it will still go on completely unaffected, exactly as it is now.
What it really feels like here is that most are so uncomfortable with their own lives they feel a need to command and dictate how others should live. And really, that’s pretty much the only feeling I get from all this. The distinct impression that far too many feel that no one any longer is entitled to a smidgen of independent thought or prerogative of deciding for himself or herself what’s right for them. That the absolute only correct way is what the majority dictates.
Welcome to the Borg Collective.
Resistance is futile, You will be assimilated.
By the time we’re done with you you’ll be dating black women whether you want
to or not. You’ll do it because we tell you to.
And if you don’t we’ll do everything we can to make your life miserable.
Degrade you. Call you names. Ridicule you.
Well as strongly evidenced that is the path of most here. But it isn’t mine, nor will it ever be.
Enjoy your Collective. I trust you’ll find peace. But really it doesn’t look like you’ll get it. Not with everyone worrying about, and with everything they’ve got pursuing things as this and trying to figure how to bend the minds and wills of non-followers into manageable putty that will conform to accepting things it doesn’t want to, and really had no interest about in the first place.
As I said I don’t know what I was expecting when I came to this site, but I’m certain it wasn’t this. Oh but I am happy the owner of this site found happiness with his black woman. I really am. Just that I can’t figure out why so many feel every Caucasian man has to do the same exact thing or else he’s a pariah or racist. Just doesn’t make any sense to me. I mean if I prefer peas over green beans with my steak dinner does it mean I’m racist against green beans? Nowadays it certainly seems so.
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C’mon, the title of this ridiculous thread should be, “Why so few black women marry white men” Black women as a rule r not very attracted to white men,unless they look like Brad Pitt or Colin Farrell.
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well deepdchocolate someone should tell my wife that. She married me and had kids with me and enjoys intimate time with me and I am not brad pit. I consider myself an average perhaps slightly handsome man but she is totally into me and has been from the start. Hang on I will tell her she has to change her mind and not be attracted to me. You know if someone is a true man they will find a naked woman of any color white black etc to be stimulating and have blue steel LOL, and the same goes for women if you are a true female you will find males regardless of color stimulating just saying that is normal human nature.
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Weren’t u in another thread talking about how u and ur white wife went to take ur kids to a swim meet and how u were sitting next to a black woman u assumed was a single mother and how u “felt sorry” for her? Should I go retrieve that post and out u for being a big fat liar? U white people will say any ol’ crap on the internet and it ain’t got nuthin’to do with the truth. People of color will marry whites because this soiciety is ruled by whites so a black woman marrying a white man is brainwashed to believe she has “upgraded” herself in doing so, characteristically speaking though and i am a Black woman, we do not find white men attractive, no we ain’t hookin’ up with Jeffrey Daniels or George Costanza or George Lucas( he gotta sister though) we don’t care how much money they have. And y’all know that.
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You can forget the other numbers the top number is #6. Lack of desire among black women: Among Americans, black women are the least likely to marry outside their race.
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@ Kiwi
There is also the other way around. There are black women(I’m tempted to say a lot) who have little to no interest in being with white men. At one point I actually had to stop and think about that after I realized that most of the women in my circle, myself included, generally don’t notice everyday white men, their sexuality and viability of being a long term partners just doesn’t register, they’re just people milling around in the workplace or the grocery store.
Thinking back, this has been going on since we were a bunch of giggling middle school girls, the posters on our walls were not of white boys, they guys who gave us butterflies in our stomachs were not white either. It might be different now for those coming of age in a time where the pervasive entertainment industry has gotten a lot whiter yet again. Ah done rambling. My two cents!
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@ Gen
Good point. Asian women seem much more interested in White men than are Black women – as a general rule.
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@Kiwi,
That might be a partial explanation, but that also implies that black women should go for white men too.
There are obviously other things at work, eg,
– emasculation of Asian men
– desire of Asian women not to have Asian in-laws, particularly Asian mother-in-laws.
– etc.
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This was obviously written by a black. Crying about how racists white men are, anyone who pays attention knows blacks are easily the most racists on earth.
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@Noah Cornelius
If you were right, there would be at least some evidence of blacks (collectively, that is) being racist towards whites. However, all we have is a litany of evidence of whites being racist toward blacks.
And save any anecdote of an individual black person doing something to an individual white person, because it’s irrelevant. Black people as a whole have never done anything to whites.
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This is total bullshit and based on Abagond’s own opinion, because he, lie many Black men, apparently find Black women less attractive –
Lack of good looks in black women: Most white men think black women are not all that good looking when compared to white women. That comes across in their phrase “good-looking for a black girl”. And you see it in their lists of beautiful women on the Internet: they have few if any black women and those they do have tend to be light-skinned. An amazing-looking black woman can walk right by a white man without him batting an eye.
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As a white man, I have been INTENSELY attracted to black women for many years. Light skin was wonderful, but I was attracted most to darker tones just because that’s what I liked. Most American black women are looking for flashy cars, big bank accounts, and tons of money to spend frivolously. Is it their fault? NO! They have been mentally conditioned by idiotic popular culture to think that those things were the most important things, and that foolishness has bled over into every facet of American dating culture now. I have always been a hard worker, always able to supply the needs of family, and always willing to do something extra for others. I have always been a closet romantic, and went from romance in the sheets to cuffs and chains…whatever she enjoyed. I never got even a single phone number from any black woman in America…not one. In America, I was the wrong skin color with not enough zeroes in the bank, so let’s cut the bullshit posts and tell it like it really is.
…so I moved to the Philippines, where I was practically attacked by women. I found a good one, got married 3 years ago, and now have a baby coming soon. Black women of America…it was your loss, not mine.
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I believe the major reasons behind the extremely low marriage rates between American White men and American Black women is due to the sordid history between the two groups and societal barriers that hinder such unions from being implemented. Other factors include lack of attraction between those in the groups, lack of cultural understanding, fear of reprisal from family and friends, and preference for their own race and ethnic group when seeking out romantic partners.
Personally, I couldn’t see myself with a White American man especially with all of the heightening racial tensions nowadays. And I doubt he would understand my emphasis on my culture (I am first generation American of Jamaican descent) or what I go through everyday in society. Despite growing up in a predominately White areas, I never feel truly comfortable around American White men or people, in general. Something always comes over me when I interact with them. I can’t explain why. That is why I never dated an American White man. Plus they are the ones that created the societal barriers that places me, as a Black woman, at the bottom of the beauty and social hierarchy. Add to the history of them and Black women, I just couldn’t wrap my mind around having them as romantic partners. I wouldn’t mind befriending one or associating with them for networking and business connections, but that is it when it comes to my wanting any interactions with them.
If I were to date interracially, I would prefer to date a Hispanic man especially a Caribbean Hispanic since their culture is similar to my Caribbean culture. And I am also receptive to other non Black races and ethnic groups especially if they are foreign. I would even take a European White man over an American White man because of the lack of societal barriers in many European countries that prevent Black women and White male unions from happening. And I also notice that they are more open to dating and marrying Black women too. There isn’t the same hesitation to date and marry Black women as there is in America.
Overall, I don’t write this out of hatred of American White men but I am going by what I see and hear. I don’t think the marriage rates between American White men and American Black women will ever increase substantially despite a growing number of these unions being recognized in the media and in real life. In order for such unions to increase at a rapid rate, American White men have to recognize their privilege, right the wrongs of the past and clear from their consensus any anti Black perceptions of Black women. Unfortunately, majority of them aren’t interested in doing so hence the reason why marriage rates between these two groups will remain low.
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Normal people want their children to resemble their grandparents. To demonize or use fake irrelevant words such as racism is pointless and just a tactic to divert from the truth. I don’t want to have Africans in my family because they are simply an alien race and not my people.
The people who push this Miscegenation charade are Jews. The reason they’re doing it is for a tactic to destroy their enemies (Europeans i.e. Whites) and to distract and use minorities (Bantus, Hispanics, Arabs, gays, degenerates and feminists) to destroy nationalism and cohesive ethnic groups. They thrive in cosmopolitan populations and areas where ethnicities are at each other’s throats.
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@ Ben V.
” I don’t want to have Africans in my family because they are simply an alien race and not my people.”
If you are human, you already have Africans in your family. All humans are descended from Africans since it is the home of homo sapiens.
“They thrive in cosmopolitan populations and areas where ethnicities are at each other’s throats.”
In the USA, Jews are “Europeans i.e. Whites”. So your rant is a internal matter between one group of “Europeans i.e. Whites” and another group of “Europeans i.e. Whites”.
People like you create the strife you blame on others.
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@ Ben V
Dude, you’re an incredible example of something. I thought the species of your mindset had died out decades ago, yet here you are, living and talking the bs. ¡Unbelievable! Feels like touching a rotten manuscript. You are a perfect match for a typical scarecrow of a cartoon liberalism.
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Reblogged this on Steph's Blog and commented:
These facts are real no matter how racists such as Steve Sailer would spin it. He knows deep down that he has racist feelings and views towards Blacks, esp. Black women. As a matter of fact, his well-known essay, Is Love Colorblind?, is full of racist/sexist biases, biases that he have of Blacks all his life.
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I find all of the reading from this page is very, very interesting.
I love Black History and everything that is in reference to black folks during the yesteryear and now.
I am black but the schools that I attended during 1950’s & 1960’s did not teach Black History at all.
I find all of it to be very interesting.
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Black women are fatter than white women and weigh an average 186 lbs. They are less likely to go to a gym. They look like Lizzo or Da’ Vine Joy Randolph. They live in black neighborhoods.
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