You cannot always tell a person’s race on the Internet, but sometimes you can. Here are some ways commenters make it clear that they are white (this is a work in progress):
- They bring up purple people: they say it does not matter to them if you are black, white, green or purple.
- They bring up the Arab slave trade.
- They point out that Africans sold and owned slaves.
- They say their family never owned slaves.
- The anything-but-race argument: they bend over backwards to explain away cases of white racism. As if white people do not have a racist bone in their body, as if they are always fair-minded and well-meaning. So white racism must be “proved”. Yet they are quick to point out cases of black racism.
- The blacks-are-racist-too argument.
- They bring up how they were beaten or robbed or disrespected by blacks.
- They say they are not racist, that they see all people the same regardless of skin colour.
- They say their grandmother is racist. Racism is always in other people or in another time or place, never in them, right here, right now.
- They say you always cry racism, that you see racism in everything.
- They get highly upset if you call them the r-word. They see “racist” as a fighting word, not as a simple description.
- They say you are the racist one.
- They think being racist means joining the Klan or using the n-word or hating black people.
- They talk down to you like they know everything and you know nothing, like you are just imagining things.
- Their comments assume that being black is a bad thing.
- They think that racism is over. The election of Obama proves it!
- They point out that Obama is half white.
- They say that most crimes are committed by blacks.
- They say they never got any help but made it on their own.
- They avoid words like “race” and “colour” and use “ethnicity” or “background” instead, as if there was something bad in noticing a person’s race.
- They say that blacks are mostly to blame for their troubles.
- They say that white Americans have been nicer to blacks than anyone else would have – certainly nicer than blacks would have been to them if it had been the other way round.
- They present racist stereotypes as fact or insight. (Blacks do this too, but whites more so.)
- If you make a general statement about whites they will say it is racist and that not all whites are like that.
- They use the word “whitey”, especially the phrase “blame whitey”.
Some blacks, especially Rented Negroes and brainwashed, well-to-do ones, will say some of these things.
Whites have this self-image of themselves as being fair and just and well-meaning, as being colour-blind, as making it on their own. They will go to great lengths to defend that self-image because it is a part of their sense of who they are. That is what all the blame-shifting you see above is about. Their loyalty to their race is more important than their search for truth.
See also:
- colour-blind racism
- The asymmetry of racism
- blame whitey
- The r-word
- white people
- All blacks are racist too
- stereotype
- Lorene Cary: Black Ice – whose experience as one of the first black girls at a boarding school founded for white boys has strange parallels with my experience as a blogger.
Wow – get to be the first to comment.
I would just say that several of your points are broad and stereotypical.
We all know I am white so I will say
I had an interesting converstaion with a good friend of man, who is very much a smart, powerful black man.
we often discuss the items on your blog and he would disagree with you on alot of things. He brings up slaves in african. He tends to agree with me that racism is a symtom of sin just one of many…whites are racist and its wrong
blacks are racist and its wrong. And blacks being racist because they were treated wrongly by a racist white society that is in power does not exscuse the behavior.
Your racist beliefs about white people are just as wrong as mine about black people. The fact that this is a white society does not excuse a black persons racist behavior. Nor does the fact that I have black friends, or black family members mean somehow I get a “racist free white person” card. Its all SIN. No better, no worse…sin is sin.
And Sin only has one cure and one ultimate punishment.
Your blog is from your point of view…and therefore is colored by your experiences in life. You can not walk in my shoes and I can not walk in yoru shoes. But by discussing and arguing points we can understand each other better.
I LOVE to talk about race, sex, religion and politics. I get in trouble for it alot. I tend to surround myself with people I disagree with as its a much more interesting conversation.
Lstly – you ask any person who is half white and half black or half mexican and half asian or what evr and THEY will point out that Obama is half white. Cause he is. LOL – that doesnt prove a commentator is white. Its a fact. I know you like to bring up the one drop rule. But that is less and less an issue today. and shouldnt you want the one drop rule to go away. Why cant people just be…well what ever they are. its not just the white community that makes ethinicity an issue.
Japan has long been a pretty racist group of people. As has China. and not because of white influence. They dislake for black people is noted in Japanese society and chinese society. A person who miex with a black person was an outcast and rejected. Ang this was before America was a power.
Thats becaue people naturally desire to suprress, seperate and control each other. Its our inate sickness.
to add to this – “Rented Negroes and brainwashed, well-to-do ones, will say some of these things.” I dare you to tell my friend this…he would laughed. Just cause a black person disagrees with your viewpoint does not devalue his opinion or make him an uncle tom. He has lived life in black skin as well. Maybe he or she just views life differently.
Damn, Abagond, I couldn’t have said it any better.
Your entire list and the commentary is spot-on. Do you mind if I share this with some people, offline?
I don’t think it’s true that you can tell whether a commenter is white or not… mynameismyname asked me if I was white in a different topic ??? that’s just weird… usually I get asked where I come from so I guess I wasn’t expecting that
Interesting post. Probably has some truth, but probably also one of those instances where there are plenty of individual exceptions. For example, on this blog, the poster who cited President (then candidate) Obama’s half-white status to me was Siditty.
Aba,
This post pretty much spot-on.
Oh, Here’s another one: Some people like to bring up “Asian countries are even more racist” as if that excuses racism in our own country.
Kat – I have never excused rasicm. Because their is no excuse….I was refering to past conversations where the perception is tha the white culture has somehow infected asian culture and other countries…as if the whtie culture is the origin of racisim.
I believe sin is the orgin – and it is not unique to the white culture. I believe we live in a racist culture. I believe that it swrong…I just dont think its the origin of the problem.
Also – those who dont think we are racist are in greater danger. Its the sickness thats symptoms are ignored that ends up killing a person.
@dedabets,
I never meant you were excusing racism but I’m merely stating an observation that I’ve seen/heard from other people.
Of course, other people of color have their own issues with race/ethnicity/skin color. I don’t deny that this is a worldwide problem.
You nailed every point.
Especially points:
14. They talk down to you like they know everything and you know nothing, like you are just imagining things.
23. They present racist stereotypes as fact or insight.
dedabets,
I strongly agree that sin is at the heart of all racism.
abagond,
I was amazed at the OBVIOUSLY RACIST, ANTI-BW posters that were trashing the humanity, dignity, and femininity of BW on your “Why more WM don’t marry BW” post. What was truly disturbing is how these ANTI-BW RACIST POSTERS kept JUSTIFYING/DEFENDING THEIR OBVIOUS ANTI-BW RACISM in their comments while CLEARLY illustrating MOST of the characteristics you’ve listed here of SOME White posters.
gotcha Kat – understood
laromana – Sin is the heart of racism, greed, lust, gluttony etc….it is the cancer eating away at humanity. The symptoms of the cancer are racism etc….and if we ignore the symtoms. We are dead.
They say their grandmother is racist.
Well, that settles the debate. Barack Obama is white.
They say that white Americans have been nicer to blacks than anyone else would have – certainly nicer than blacks would have been to them if it had been the other way round.
There’s nothing hypothetical about that situation nowadays. The facts are there, for everyone to see.
mynameismyname, or anyone else: use this post however you see fit.
I said:
Some blacks, especially Rented Negroes and brainwashed, well-to-do ones, will say some of these things.
The “brainwashed” is a bit mean, but to be in a position where you want to say more than just one or two of these things you will have to have bought into the ideas that go into white American racism.
That does not mean they are all lies. Africans did in fact sell slaves, Obama is in fact half white, etc. But what is the purpose of pointing these things out?
It is not just whites who point out that Obama is half white. Blacks and biracial people do it too, I know, but whites do it more often and make a bigger deal out of it. When they say it I feel like his half-whiteness is supposed to mean something, but I am not quite sure what that something is supposed to be.
i dont think his half whiteness means anything more than his half blackness….but i have said all along I care less about his race and more about the fact that I think he is a socialist….Dont give a damn where his ancestors came from – I am not all that happy with federal government envolvement in my life.
Hope that doesnt open up a whole NEW can o worms.
The thing about the whole “half white” bit that many whites love to tout out about Obama is that it reeks of hyprocisy.
There is no “half white” in the U.S., you’re either white or you’re not. To be white is to raceless. Obama and any other black person, the few like him who have a white parent and the remaining vast majority who have white blood but no white immediate family, is HARDLY raceless. Anything but.
Obama and any other black person, “biracial” or not, is clearly a minority. He/they will never be white. They’ll never be privy to white privilege. So, to me, their whole “half[or partial] whiteness” is merely genetic.
Like I love to point out, whites don’t go out their way to point out that say, Keanu Reeves (who has a Chinese father), is “half white”. No, he’s seen as simply white and the fact that he’s a product of an interracial marriage is rarely brought up. Why the difference in reaction? Is it because in the mind of whites that black is the worst thing you can be seen as? So, if they find a black person, like Obama, who they come to accept, their “half whitness” rectifies their unfortunate blackness. Yet, for any other “interracial” person who’s not black, there’s no need for their “half whitness” to rectify their non-whiteness? I don’t get it.
It’s like in Spike Lee’s “Do The Right Thing” when Pino, the son of Sal, the pizzeria owner’s racist son, played by John Tuturro, openly hates blacks but admires Michael Jordan as an athlete and Prince as a musician. When Mookie, played by Lee, questions Pino about this contradiction, he responds, “Well, they’re not black.” They’re exceptions, in his mind, thus that makes them “above black”. Because, you know being seen as black is something that has be overcome. Anything but black…
That is exactly the headset of those whites who point out Obama’s supposed “half whiteness”.
Do you get what I’m trying to say, Abagond?
To mynameisnyname:
Like I love to point out, whites don’t go out their way to point out that say, Keanu Reeves (who has a Chinese father), is “half white”.
I am not sure what your point is here… Keanu Reeves rarely brings up his father in interviews. (Who is Hawaiian/Chinese.. note that Keanu got the name Reeves from his father…)
In your experience do whites bring up the fact that Vin Diesel is half white..? Lenny Kravitz..? Lisa Bonet..?
Obama, himself, on the campaign trail emphasized his white background. Call it a political move but he brought it up plenty of times. He also basically credits his mother as having the strongest influence in his life. Indonesians who knew them both seem to think that was the case also:
http://www.thejakartapost.com/news/2008/11/14/friends-reflect-legacy-obama039s-mother.html
To mynameisnyname:
Re: Keanu Reeves and Obama…
I suspect if the US had been saturated with ads, articles, etc. about Keanu Reeves, Vin Diesel, or Lenny Kravitz that discussed their parentage, one would hear he’s half white, or half Chinese/Hawaiian, or half black much more often.
“To be white is to raceless.” what? so if your white = you dont have a race?
I am scottish (celtic) and prussian (saxon) and american indian. I am an american. I am a human. but raceless?
Call a prusian a german and you will hear how they are NOT the same.
Call an irishman english or a scott irish and you will HEAR from them.
Whoa, dude, slow down. That’s way too much truth for me to handle in one sitting LOL.
To Abagond:
Some blacks, especially Rented Negroes and brainwashed, well-to-do ones, will say some of these things.
Can you list who some of these “rented negroes” and brainwashed types might be and what they have written or said that you believe affirms this condition?
Davida:
Whites do not generally think of themselves as “white”. They are just people. They can walk into a room where everyone is white and not even notice it.
Or: when they make a list of the most beautiful white women in the world they do not call it “The most beautiful white women in the world”, like I do, but just “The most beautiful women in the world”. That is racelessness.
Davida – “To be white is to raceless.” what? so if your white = you dont have a race?
The concept of race is a tool used to pigeon hole people. Being white means you are not judged on the colour of your skin but by your actions. Being a POC means that you are first judged by the colour of your skin and most people wouldn’t even care about finding out about your character.
Exactly Aba,
Racelessness is the ability to be the norm, the default and not have to think about whether you will be represented in aspects of everyday American life.
Racelessness is the ability to say All-American Girl and the first thing that pops into our head is a blonde haired blue eyed white girl or a brunette white girl. Not a Asian girl, Not Latino, Not Black, Not Native American, etc.
Whites do not generally think of themselves as “white”.
Apparently in your opinion and experience…. sorry in my experience.. I was reminded that I was white frequently in Oakland, Vancouver B.C, and in Silicon Valley almost daily. You’re projecting your own experiences and perhaps the writing of people like Tim Wise to all whites in the US.
That is why I used the word “generally” when I said “Whites do not generally think of themselves as ‘white’”. I know there are cases where they are reminded of their whiteness, sometimes quite painfully. I was trying to explain to Davida what racelessness meant.
To Therese:
Being white means you are not judged on the colour of your skin but by your actions.
I suppose that’s correct if the person doing the judging is themselves white. How about when a Black person meets a Latino..? An Asian meets a Latino..? A Black person meets a Black person..? Although whites don’t judge other whites on skin color they most assuredly judge each other by their accents, attire, mannerisms, age, gender, hair style, vocabulary, looks, etc. Damn quickly in my experience.
The experience of being a person of colour and that of having bad hair are not quite the same thing.
Uncle Milton:
Your comment under #28:
Although whites don’t judge other whites on skin color they most assuredly judge each other by their accents, attire, mannerisms, age, gender, hair style, vocabulary, looks, etc. Damn quickly in my experience.
and what you said under #19:
Re: Keanu Reeves and Obama…
I suspect if the US had been saturated with ads, articles, etc. about Keanu Reeves, Vin Diesel, or Lenny Kravitz that discussed their parentage, one would hear he’s half white, or half Chinese/Hawaiian, or half black much more often.
are perfect examples of #5 in the post:
5. The anything-but-race argument: they bend over backwards to explain away cases of white racism….
Bad hair and skin colour are not on the same level. And white people bringing up Obama’s half-whiteness only became a big thing after he was elected. It has little to do with media saturation and everything to do with white people coming to terms with having a black president.
To Abagond:
I know there are cases where they are reminded of their whiteness, sometimes quite painfully.
Granted you aren’t getting paid for this and have limited time to devout to the discussion. Whites are now 65% of the US population and are generally a plurality if not an outright minority in many areas. I don’t know the percentages but I tend to think the majority of people of color live in areas where there are fairly high concentrations of other people of color.
The skin-colour-is-like-bad-hair thing is also a case of belittling what people of colour are saying to you so you do not have to take them seriously. A very common thing that people with power do.
Uncle Milton, you said:
Granted you aren’t getting paid for this and have limited time to devout to the discussion. Whites are now 65% of the US population and are generally a plurality if not an outright minority in many areas. I don’t know the percentages but I tend to think the majority of people of color live in areas where there are fairly high concentrations of other people of color.
That is an apples and oranges comparison.
America is shockingly segregated, in case you did not know. Most black people live in mainly black parts of town and most white people live in mainly white parts of town.
For whites with some money it is even worse: 90% of suburban whites live in places that are less than 1% black. That makes me want to throw up.
mynameismyname (in reply to comment #17, way back when):
I know what you mean: being part black is seen as something bad (that terrible one drop) while being part Chinese is more like an interesting fact – so long as you do not look mainly Chinese, that is! Asian Americans experience racism too but to a lesser degree.
Theresa and aba – now i understand what you mean. i can see your point. Not sure I agree with it completely – but I get where your coming from.
I see gender before race almost everytime. I assume a common bond with women – regardless of race. Does that make me sexist more than racist?
And white people bringing up Obama’s half-whiteness only became a big thing after he was elected.
I don’t know how one could prove or disprove that statement. That’s seems to be an unverifiable opinion. As I remember Obama (because he’s a good politician and communicator..) emphasized his (white) Kansas roots more obviously after Jeremiah Wright wanted to get some attention.
The anything-but-race argument: they bend over backwards to explain away cases of white racism
Well that is certainly your interpretation
… of course race can be a factor and cannot be changed…. but does that limit Asians in the medical, computer, or engineering fields..? How about Latinos in the construction industry..?
Race solidarity among whites…? Outsourcing of industry to India, China, the Philippines, and Mexico? Or importation of labor from the above countries..?
For whites with some money it is even worse: 90% of suburban whites live in places that are less than 1% black. That makes me want to throw up.
Yes, how dare they to want to insulate themselves from crime and other social pathology.
Wow. I will just let that one pass.
That is an apples and oranges comparison.
Why..? Therese and Kat were talking about racelessness. The idea that whites don’t experience the concept of race. Seems quite possible for some.. but my point was that many non white folks aren’t swimming in a sea of white people but among quite a few non white people.
(but that one – nonserviam’s last comment – falls under 18 and 21:
18. They say that most crimes are committed by blacks.
21. They say that blacks are mostly to blame for their troubles.)
You think that whites go to all those nontrivial lengths simply because they have an irrational dislike for blacks?
Yes, I do.
while being part Chinese is more like an interesting fact
Vin Diesel, Wentworth Miller..?
so long as you do not look mainly Chinese
Possibly true for men…but sometimes an advantage or neutral for women. Which plays into the relative rankings of what is considered in American society by race and gender.
#18: Not “most” in absolute sense, obviously, because blacks are only ~12% of the population, while whites are 65% (and falling). But most per capita. That is simply statistics.
#21: That happens to be true.
The point of the post was not to say they are all lies – some are not – but that they are the very things that white people bring up. And they bring them up not so much because they are “true” and they are on some grand search for the truth (if only), but because they are trying to defend the racist world they have created and do not want to face up to that fact.
Nonserviam, do you consider yourself racist? Be honest.
I.e. any facts that whites point out to refute baseless accusations against them are simply more proof of their being wrong/evil in the first place.
teresa “Being a POC means that you are first judged by the colour of your skin and most people wouldn’t even care about finding out about your character.” I understand this and have seen it. but its not always POC that deal with this.
As a white women, people make assumptions about me all the time that are wrong. I am judged by the color of my skin..by other white people, by POCs, by men and by women. Its human nature to judge.
My husband is one of 3 white men in his shop…he is a mechanic. His numbers prove he works on more cars…he is just more efficient at what he does. But the assumption is – in fact the common complaint in the shop is that he earns more money because he is white. They all have same base pay…he just does more work. The fact that he does more warranty work than the rest, if there are 30 appointments he does 12 and the rest do 1 or 2 each. Some milk jobs for days. Yet – they like to say its because he is white that he out earns them. His skin has nothing to do with out performing them. Their skin color also has nothing to do with the fact that he can work on four cars at once and they dont. I note he out performs everyone in the shop…including the two other white techs….
You did not answer my question, which it was, more than anything else.
Just for the record, I do not think that whites are pure evil or white devils or anything like that. They have the same brains and the same hearts as black people, but the power they have in this world has twisted nearly all of their minds and hardened many of their hearts.
Racism is a much-abused term and most of its modern usage is spurious and/or malicious. I hold opinions that may be considered racist by some, in that light. But no, I do not.
Janet:
He has a narrow definition of racism, something that only like 3% of whites would qualify for, if I remember correctly. That should tell you which percentile he is in. To most black people he would be considered flat-out racist.
aba – I know you dont. I actually credit you for giving me a wider perspective. I dont always agree with your view but I understand it better
To Abagond:
I do not think that whites are pure evil or white devils..
Well personally I never thought that was the case…
but the power they have in this world
Power…? What percentage of whites do you believe (I am assuming you mean in the US…) have power in your mind..? All, half..? What do you mean by power..?
has twisted their minds.
Can you elaborate..?
Uncle Milton said in comment #39:
That is an apples and oranges comparison.
Why..? Therese and Kat were talking about racelessness. The idea that whites don’t experience the concept of race. Seems quite possible for some.. but my point was that many non white folks aren’t swimming in a sea of white people but among quite a few non white people.
Well, living in a black ghetto is not what I would call a raceless experience. People there do not forget that they are black, certainly not like how white people in lily-white suburbs forget that they are white. Anything but.
Many white arguments against racism assume a symmetry that just is not there. Being black is not the mirror image of being white. It is a false symmetry because nearly all the power is on one side and not the other. Institutional white power makes it asymmetric.
Aba said: Many White arguments against racism assume a symmetry that just is not there. Being black is not the mirror image of being white. It is a false symmetry because nearly all the power is one side and not the other. Institutional white power makes it asymmetric.
****************
I absolutely agree with this. Always on-point, Aba.
Power is in the hands of the majority. It’s called democracy. For example, I’m a WHITE African (yes, gosh) here in South Africa, with no power because the majority rule. Get over it abagond, stop whining about racism and move to Africa, yep, make a contribution to the motherland. Only thing is your hard earned taxes will be squandered and inefficiently used.
Let me tell you something about absolute power in Africa. Our next President, 67 year old Zuma was accused of raping a knowingly HIV infected woman. He was acquitted, but told everyone that he had a shower and used “soap” to prevent infection. This is the idiot that is going to run SA this year!
He was also implicated for corruption in a arms deal. In avoiding jail, he has had the ex-president removed from office and placed a fellow crony in the position as temporary president until he wins the elections this year. He has also dissolved the scorpions (a specialist anti-crime unit) and fired any top officials that opposed him and he will walk free. He is a piece of crap amongst many other’s here that steals food out of the bellies of very, very poor people.
We have the money to give everyone a decent education and housing in this country but corruption and inefficiency is preventing this. Once the white threat is over, most black African’s don’t give a shit about each other and its a free for all.
Yes, I am a racist, so are you abagond and all the OTHER HYPOCRATES that frequent this site. I’m proud of my families heritage and history which I can trace back 2000 years. My forefathers have contributed to this world with hard work and brought mankind forward, so that you can have the freedom to talk utter shit on the internet.
Agabond — it’s good to have you back among us.
Wayne,
I’m Black African, and you need to take your head out of your butt-hole.
Signed,
Janet.
I’m sorry for sinking low as to throw insults abagond, but the racism here is sickening.
Uncle Milton said:
but the power they have in this world
Power…? What percentage of whites do you believe (I am assuming you mean in the US…) have power in your mind..? All, half..? What do you mean by power..?
has twisted their minds.
Can you elaborate..?
A given white person may not have much power but altogether they have a huge amount of power, not just in America but in the world as a whole. Not just the power of arms, the power of goverments and the power of money, which is huge, but also the power of ideas, of education, of film and fashion and television. Even the power of the news, of which stories get reported and how they get reported. It affects people of colour not just in America but all over the world.
By twisted minds I mean mainly racism, I mean they can tell lies about themselves and about the world and there is no one they will listen to who can tell them they are wrong. They believe what they want to believe. That 9/11 took them so completely by surprise is a measure of how out of touch they are.
As Gloria Naylor said, to tell lies is bad enough, but to believe your own lies is far worse.
White America does both and can get away with it – for a time – because of its power.
This blog, among other things, is an exercise in calling them on some of those lies. And when I do, I hear stuff like what I listed in the post, which are not attempts at understanding but attempts at side-stepping what I said.
That 9/11 took them so completely by surprise is a measure of how out of touch they are.
For once, I agree. Worse still, it hasn’t proved to be a definitive wake-up call.
Agree not with the “whites had it coming” subtext, of course, but that our own pretty lies has blinded (most of) us to the nature of the enemy.
@Wayne
You are not a White African in South Africa.
You are a White European in South Africa.
Wayne how ironic that you now refer to your self as a white African, before 1994, there were still toilets, beaches, sitting benches in South Africa marked “non european” and you would not use those, because you considered yourself european. It is amazing how your ancestors stealing land and resources from blacks is considered by you a contribution to the world.
Abagond – i totally agree with your last comment. but of course I feel its to specific.
Not recognizing the racism that still exsists is ignoring sin (racism is a symtom of a worse problem). Its the belief that our PC – white washed – lifestyle is enough to make the world okay. Its feminists who only care about whether a man hits on a women in the office but dont give a damn about muslim women being murdred or tortured by their OWN family members. Or the female genitl mutilation in africa. Or a 100 other worthy cuases.
their are feminist causes that we SHOULD fight for in the world…and yet we focus on the trivial issues in the US.
Our society is spiriling downward into sin and evil…the harder the our white washed, god-free culture tries to say everything is fine…whats good for you is fine and what is good for me is fune…the more the putrid evil bubbles up from beneath. Their are no more rules, their is no right and wrong. we dont want to judge anyone. well damn it their is right and wrong. 9/11 was just one example. How about an add campaign that says “what happens in vegas stays in vegas” – meaning come cheat on your spouse, we wont tell, come do things you know are wrong, its okay. we idiolize celebraties who cant stay married for a month. Big business rewards dishonesty. Our music cultures teach young men to treat women as objects and even “kid appropriate” music is laced with sexual themes. My niece loves the barbie girl song – until I really lisened to the words…i do NOT want my four yr old niece singing…you can brush my hair and undress me everywhere – touch me here touch me there…
When i think about the world I think of the phrase “hell in a handbasket”
Welcome to the liberal dystopia, Davida
Abagond:
Not sure where to put this.. I think you might like this blog:
http://undercoverblackman.blogspot.com/
@ Janet: Very intelligent comment. Let me ponder on that one.
@ Tiffy: Thought mankind originated from Africa? Anyway the only true South African is the Hottentot/Bushan/Koi San tribe which has been in South Africa for 10 000’s of years. The rest of the tribes came down from Central Africa about 600 years ago and “COLONIZED” SA and along with the “WHITE COLONIZERS” basically wiped out this tribe” What do we call them? “Central African in South Africa”. Ha, ha. How hypocritical!
@Black South African. Firstly my ancestors never stole “your land”. they just took it. If your ancestors were not strong enough to prevent it from happening, tough, that’s life. The Monglians, Persians, Chinese, Egyptions, Europeans, Japanese etc. have all had their turn in expansion, with excessive cruelty. Stop crying man, and look forward!
By the way in 1992 I voted yes for change in SA but I suppose that does not count for anything!
That is an extremely poor line of reasoning. If might makes right then the world is just and good. Then I am allowed to do whatever I can get away with. Should I add that to my list? “Comfort with injustice”?
It’s got nothing to do with reasoning. This is reality. We can talk all day about injustices done in the past. Is it going to make a difference. I doubt it!. Every nationality, race, tribe in this world have had atrocities committed against them.
How to tell if a commenter is white.
yup, whites often bring up the arab slave trade..i did it in your “white people” blog as you can see, i didnt do it to defend or excuse White slave trade..i did it to make comparison to what whites and arabs (among others) have in common, the slavery, and my second remark about arab slave-trade was about the Arabs enslaving Eastern- Europeans. Both Christians,Jews and Moslems were slave-owners.
P.S sorry for my grammar, but english is not my first language D.S.
Davida says:
“Our society is spiriling downward into sin and evil…the harder the our white washed, god-free culture tries to say everything is fine..”
Fine, you have your religious beliefs but I don’t understand this way of thinking…. Who is to say that YOUR GOD should be everyone’s god? I guess the bloody path various religious zealots cut through human history still means that god is the solution. Religion was and is the excuse for A LOT of injustice and all together screwed up scales of measurements, while some of the concepts are noble, we have proven as a species that they are contrary to our nature. This society has a god, its called money, we are doing the same things for money that we did for god. Going back to these old ways will just restart that loop, sorry.
Anyways, we are in denial about what we are, which is blinding us to what we can be, this article is a very prime example of that very thing. Telling yourself that things are ok even though blood is gushing from your ears doesn’t make it go away and don’t be surprised if people think your a fool for trying to convince them otherwise.
And I don’t get this Wayne fellow’s reasoning. So because Tom, Dick and Harry did it, its ok? Its like Ken cheating on his wife and looking at her as if she’s some kind of dummy for being mad, Jim cheated on his wife and so did Bill, what is her problem? He has too much pride to make things right but he wants her to shut up about it, the house is her property too so she stays, they live together separately, no trust, no respect so their relationship doesn’t have a snowflake’s chance in hell, he doesn’t mind as long as she shuts up about it. What does that say about him?. You can put a spin on it and say he got what he wanted he’s a badass or you can see it for what it is, he hurt someone and really didn’t care too much about it. Wrong is wrong.
Humanity is not as simple as Tom, Dick and Harry.
That was a prime example of someone wanting what they want and not caring how they get it and the effects of said actions. One on One and group vs group is no different just on a larger scale. Some people, when they want something bad enough they feel entitled to it and given enough time one can explain away all actions so the wrongs seems somewhat rational forgetting the fact that it was WRONG in the first place. And quite frankly, speaking out against institutionalized racism and denial is hardly “whining”, its not something that’s NOT “in the past” and it might make some people uncomfortable but so what.
I think that most people who are placed high on a social class and/or racial hierachy tend to think the world is just and fair and anything that happens to them is because they deerve it. We blame the person than the situation. I do see this most in race related conversation amogest white people.
Hi Abagond,
As you know I am not black but am part asian. This post has been extremely interesting and I agree with everything you said. I think the symmetry argument you bring up is a very good one and again shows incredible social insight on your part.
I really think you should write a book (if you haven’t already) about all this because the way you explain things is very intelligently worded yet easy to digest…I really think you would have a top seller…
dani
and most people who are placed at the bottom of a social class and/or racial hierachy tend to think the world is unfair and cruel and anything that happens to them is because of other people. We blame the other person rather then ourselves for our predicament. I do see this most in race related conversations amongst black people.
Wow, symmetry in action! Thanks, Wayne. And thanks too Jhem for your comment.
Wayne: You seem to be saying that might makes right and anyone who does not like it is just a whiner.
abagond: I never said it was right. Just that this is the way it is! Maybe one day humanity will be more humane, civilized etc. But we still have a long way to go.
Bullshit. I’m Asian, and I’ve brought up the Arab Slave Trade. In fact, this article is completely ridiculous. Anything that isn’t a flagrant admission that “I’m a secret member of an anti-(whichever race) terrorist organization” seems to indicate that the responder is white. I get tired of people blaming their problems on their skin color. I have never once been treated beneath my dignity for my race by any white person.
Good point: some Asian Americans talk that way too.
Just because you have never experienced any trouble on account of your race does not mean you never will. Nor does it necessarily mean that those who have are imagining it or making a big deal out of nothing.
First, I would like to say great post. Your style of argument is very common among blacks. By blaming whites for all their troubles it gets blacks off the hook, not all black people are like this. Young blacks do hide their racism, even from themselves. The thing is most blacks are too blind to their own racism to see it. Black racism hurts whites, but it hurts blacks too: lies eat away at your soul till you can no longer live straight and proud. Black racism runs much deeper than you seem to know. So deep, in fact, you do not even seem to see your own racism. So when white people talk about black people, black people should step the hell back, and listen. Whites cannot afford to fool themselves about the nature of blacks. Whereas blacks lie to themselves to maintain their overblown self-image.
Black women may look nice when they are young but when they reach middle age they start to fall apart! White Women are the most Beautiful women in the world while Black Women are so boring and Plain-looking!!! Sometimes, the truth hurts…
Clever. Ha-ha. That is a very white thing to do, whatever your race may be. A Gingrich nonprofit did it the other day to Sotomayor. Why it does not work in the end, read this:
http://abagond.wordpress.com/2009/05/08/the-asymmetry-of-racism/
Also reread #6 in the post.
I can’t tell if all of this is supposed to be a joke or not. Abagond: there’s no way you can be serious!
Two can play this game: how to tell if a commenter is black:
1. They make fun of white people and then cause an uproar when white people make fun of them.
2. They say white people owe them because of slavery and segregation.
3. They accuse white people of being racist to get special priveliges.
4. They don’t recognize other races besides whites, they think America is divided into “blacks and whites.”
5. They forget about the troubles of other groups in America, such as Native Americans, Hispanics, etc, thinking their own problems have priority.
6. They see the election of Barack Obama as a “victory for the black people” or “one for our side,” instead of for the greater good of everyone. As if white people didn’t vote for him, too.
Isaac says:
I can’t tell if all of this is supposed to be a joke or not. Abagond: there’s no way you can be serious!
I am completely serious. I have seen this stuff too many times.
Hi Caitlin
Aint this a cool blog. How to tell if a person is white. Wow! Sound’s a little racist to me. Anyway, hope you enjoyed reading it
I personally think that abagond needs a break. He’s welcome to come and stay with me in the motherland. No jokes. That’s a invite!
LOL. Thanks, but you make South Africa sound like something that is best avoided!
This Wayne guy is very typical of white people in South Africa, full of hot air.
You’re wrong, black women are the most beautiful secure and grounded women, white women on the other hand are incredibly insecure, whey they reach middle age dear Wayne they are the ones that fall apart. Have you ever checked out how fast they wrinkle, especially in the South African sun?
They shrivel up by age 30. Do not come on this board and fool people about South Africa. I know Southern Africa very well.
You are the one who is very blind to how racist you are. You are a very typical Boar in South Africa, people like you are folks that condoned apartheid.
You are a hypocrite it’s sickening.
We also have Waynes here in America. And the white women wrinkle easily too.
上杉 謙信 Says:
Thu 28 May 2009 at 16:45:20
Bullshit. I’m Asian, and I’ve brought up the Arab Slave Trade. In fact, this article is completely ridiculous. Anything that isn’t a flagrant admission that “I’m a secret member of an anti-(whichever race) terrorist organization” seems to indicate that the responder is white. I get tired of people blaming their problems on their skin color. I have never once been treated beneath my dignity for my race by any white person.
It’s very naive and downright foolish to believe that no white people will do this to you in your face, but once you turn your back, it’s whole other story.
abagond Says:
Thu 28 May 2009 at 22:00:03
Good point: some Asian Americans talk that way too.
Just because you have never experienced any trouble on account of your race does not mean you never will. Nor does it necessarily mean that those who have are imagining it or making a big deal out of nothing.
Agreed abagond. This poster will be in for a rude awakening when it eventually happens to him/her.
MerriMay:
Funny that you say that. I was always under the impression that blacks around the world were full of hot air. Plenty talk but could never get their affairs in order.
Wrinkles? Come on guys, is that the best you can bring up! The topics must be getting a little stale around here.
“Black women may look nice when they are young but when they reach middle age they start to fall apart! White Women are the most Beautiful women in the world while Black Women are so boring and Plain-looking!!!”
Seems like it was you, Wayne, who brought up looks and black women falling apart after a certain age (which, i would think, includes wrinkles on the face). So Merry was ready to point out how black women, in fact, do age a bit better than white women.
AO
I forgot about that comment. It’s actually a whole bunch of comments that I copied of this website and reversed the roles. ie changed white to black and visa versa just to see what the response would be.
Yes, black women do age better then white women.
Our skin is brown and smooth and it always looks youthful because of the melanin in our skin!
“Black don’t crack” Is the truth.
Of course white women will deny this because they have their typical white superiority complex.
The typical white man looks liks Rush Limbaugh, fat, jelly necked and pot bellied with a big mouth.
Ugly as sin with burnt warthog skin.
You got the melanin and we got the brain cells. I’m pretty happy with that. lol
“You got the melanin and we got the brain cells. I’m pretty happy with that. lol”
If you’re going to contest that white people have superior intelligence then:
1. You are a racist.
2. You disprove your own argument by making a very silly assertion and not even attempting to back it up with facts.
EzrulieRedEyes – I get why you’re angry, but
1. Not all white people are the same.
2. There is no proven link between character and physical appearance, so even if you think white people are ugly, that has NOTHING to do with ANYTHING.
3. Physical attractiveness is entirely subjective. What is ugly to you may be beautiful to someone else and vice-versa.
We have the brains and the body.
White people have delusions of grandeur, easy wrinkles and a big mouth.
RE: “How to tell if a commenter is white”
=====================
For someone who accuses others of being racist, I find it strange that you MUST know if a commenter is white. Obviously, you believe that “THAT” must be the final determiner as to whether a person’s spoken words are true or false.
Not sure where that is coming from.
A person’s race does not affect whether his statements are true or false. To think otherwise would be an ad hominem argument – a logical fallacy.
Some of the statements listed here are in fact true. Like about Arab traders.
But I do find it amazing that whites like to say how they are individuals and that I am wrong to make general statements about them – but then they keep making the same sort of statements over and over again.
ErzulieRedEyes:
Some of your comments are very immature. Does anyone here take you seriously?
Wayne Says:
Mon 2 Nov 2009 at 05:51:08
ErzulieRedEyes:
Some of your comments are very immature. Does anyone here take you seriously?”
No one here takes you seriously,
you always come here only to harass black posters on this blog.
You’re not my mother, so you can go tell somebody else how to mature.
@ Wayne
I second that…some comments ErzulieRedEyes makes are beyond daft at times!
therighttoparty Says:
Mon 2 Nov 2009 at 20:11:02
@ Wayne
I second that…some comments ErzulieRedEyes makes are beyond daft at times!”
And i see how silly you people are, as usual.
Of course in your mind, anyone that doesn’t butter up your white superiority complex is crazy.
I have a confusing heritage: my Boer grandfather from South Africa married an American white protestant woman and had three children. Their son married a white and their two daughters both married “colored” (not black & not white) and from one of those unions I was born and was raised in a community w/o blacks.
I recall childhood curiosity and my confusion about skin color. My “white” grandparents preferred their son’s family, but it wasn’t until I was an adult that I understood why my sisters and I felt odd on both sides of the family; neither side was like my siblings and me, although the non-white family had open arms for us while the white side was much less inviting, even mean spirited.
Mom and Dad hired a black couple from another town to do cleaning and yard work while they ran a restaurant. In particular, I recall one incident: “Mr. Jim,” the gardener, brought his boys to our house one day after we begged to meet his kids. The boys huddled together in the back yard while we peeked at them and wondered why they stayed so far away. Those boys with dark skin and nappy black hair threw a garbage can lid at us. Something made them mad, but we didn’t know what or why. So we kept our distance; we had so wanted to play with these kids but they made it clear we were to stay away. Mr. Jim treated us kindly, but his kids showed something different. Now I know that the kids were honest and the dad was… What? So many hidden feelings, so many conflicts…
You would call me white. In my family, I am the “whitest.” I envy my sisters’ dark hair and deep brown eyes; I have lighter skin and green eyes. I feel foreign when I see my fair face in the mirror. I check the “white” box when a form requires me to choose a race. It feels incorrect, a lie. I have memories of “difference”, of being odd where my white cousins were acceptable.
I’m aware that light skinned people are automatically preferred, that I now receive easy acceptance in white society and have no right to request subsidies. Whites need to be informed of the oblivious privilege, that there is an invisible wall for “outsiders.” I named it as an adult, after I learned the term “racism.”
I am thankful to have felt “otherness,” and to have experienced two different cultural traditions as a child. I want to know the experiences of nationalities surrounding me, to comprehend why the “garbage can lid” will always be hurled. Inside I say, “But you don’t even know me.” At the same time I think, “Shame on me for not appreciating white privilege.”
Yes, black women do age better then white women.
Our skin is brown and smooth and it always looks youthful because of the melanin in our skin!
True. Well, I wouldn’t know for sure, but looking at (non airbrushed) photographs, it is true. I always thought it’s genetic. Maybe it’s just about skin tone. However, I think it’s the same for men. Black men in their 40s often look younger than white men their age.
Speaking about the list, I am “guilty” for 4 (because it’s true) and 17 (because I am not particularily familiar with “one drop rule”).
It’s certainly true in the tropics. Lack of melanin in your skin down here means you age very fast.
This list is very true and its strange how whites fall into the same lines, since they’re all supposed to be
“diverse individuals.”
Wayne,
In South Africa, white people still enjoy immense power because they own and run most of the big business, farms, etc. The majority of the current generation of black South African are largely uneducated and economically powerless. Abagond’s observation that white people have power is true even in SA. It will be a number of generations before the situation changes. (Kindly note that I have not gotten into giving the reasons why the situation is like that. Yet.)
I’m African and I have visited SA a number of times. I can see your views are typical of many Afrikaans.
Wayne,
(Now for the not so nice part.)
I enjoy encounters with your type. I’m glad I have found you! I promise to give a reply to your proud rants later.
Was it not Malcolm X who said in his biography that when he used to speak to audiences he could tell, even with his eyes close whether a person was White viz by their questioning(s) and reasoning(s)??
I think the same is also here on this board too.
And if the yardstick is taken even further you can also identify those Blacks who are ‘euocentric’ in their mindset, by a similar logic.