The thread where you can never be off topic! Well, almost never. The rest of the Comment Policy applies, though.
Please put YouTube links in parentheses like so:
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kvlTG4yVByY)
Scroll down a bit to see the links to the archived open threads.
New thread. Thanks
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Who is the lady in the photo of the new Open Thread? I believe it’s the same lady from the Nov 2012-Sep 2013 Open Thread. It’s like I should know her or something. Is she a famous writer or poet?
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yeah new thread with an amazing fro lol
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@ lifelearner
click on the pic and it goes to an article about the woman.
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@ lifelearner: It is Stacie Ann Chin, she is a writer and poet. She is from Jamaica.
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I saw her do some spoken word on PBS, that’s where I saw first. She is a LGBT activist.
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*Cool cool* thanks ladies…off to watch her on youtube
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Sent you an e-mail Abagond. Hit back whenever you feel like.
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had an amazing discussion in the bullpen in family court today in new jersey it was multi cultural and so forth at times it seemed like a david mamet play and it was covering a lot of stuff that came up here alot about boricua and the admixture thereof much like the tainos thread very interesting it was peaceful
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I’d never seen gone with the wind but today I watched about an hour of it and was sick from it. within 10 minutes or less I was smh when the mammy sapphire stereotype was yelling out the window and rollin her neck. I was really done and turned it off when the black males were saying the confederacy needs us so we was gone dig trenches for the south goodbye miss scarlet don’t worry we’ll stop them Yankees. *barf* I was surprised I didn’t see some tap dancing in this film. Yea sure portray the slaves as being happily enslaved and wanting to help their masters keep them. Ugh.
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another person said i’m black today what is it with that i mean again its cool i um tend to agree but … well i have been drinking but that happened
https://www.facebook.com/groups/123505037742352/permalink/519717581454427/?comment_id=519772631448922&offset=0&total_comments=46
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I remember watching GWTW as an adult (22yrs old), and it was pretty uncomfortable to sit through during various scenes of the movie. Did you see the part in the movie where the house slaves/children were fanning Scarlett in the day-room. *Double barf* From watching that film, made me get a better grasp of the romanticizing white folk do regarding “wanting to go back to the good ol’ days”. I bet they do!
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ah jesus i need to see my girl monday it gonna be
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Yay, a new open thread! The old one kept crashing my tablet browser.
Abagond, I came across a painting you might like:
![](https://i0.wp.com/1.bp.blogspot.com/-qmFgzgexB5o/T4irR8UXqlI/AAAAAAAAAC8/0Q3A9jmqsn4/s1600/afrocentric.jpg)
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hi peanut
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hi Peanut 🙂
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@ lifelearner
oh yeah i saw that scene i was like wtf sure have the black children fanning those grown as women taking a nap. smh if anything the kids should’ve been sleeping. surprised they didn’t have them fanning and feeding them grapes.
@ peanut
Hey *waves*
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Sharina-
Instead of attacking something I’ve said you’ve true to attack me personally. That doesn’t fly.
I believe in objective right and wrong. You may not. That’s fine. I believe that those who oppose interracial relationships like the one that created me and the one of me and my girl are wrong. They’re bigoted.
If they aren’t, is it ok to support laws prohibiting interracial couples? That’s a direct attack on personal freedom. It is based on savage notions of racial purity that the vast majority of educated people reject. It is discrimination based on race. Remember when the Louisiana judge wouldn’t marry a black man and white woman? He was blasted (rightfully) all up and down the media.
Also it’s a sissy act to attack me when I can’t fight back, just like this bullying ban to begin with.
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wow this hella weird. its a zombie keep coming back. cut off one head and it grows two more. nothing worse than a regenerating zombie.
![](https://i0.wp.com/images1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20130511062233/pvzcc/images/c/cd/Multiple_Head_and_Arm_Zombie.png)
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*grabs popcorn* http://i898.photobucket.com/albums/ac187/rhdthree/GIFS/popcornsjpg.gif
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@ TruthabouttheSituation / Asplund
What the fuck are you still doing here? I banned your entitled ass – but, no, your PhD or Choctaw genes or “anti-racism” or some shit gives you the right not to follow the rules like everyone else. How are you NOT a troll?
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omg another kid i think she’s out of the first trimester, should be march? prolly mine.
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that is also helping me try to keep my head out of my ass maybe it won’t get taken from me if it lives and so forth, odds not really worth betting on now but hope do spring eternal
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ah man i just wouldnt feel complete with out the drama i think it is
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To all Americans here….
Yall been noticing a trend “downtrodden white males”? I’m noticing it a lot on the net, tv, and me and my boys were on the train coming from a party, and we here these white dudes talking about how rough it is to be a white male in America. We couldn’t stop laughing.
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This was tweeted by Anonymous earlier. Made me smile.
http://news.infoshop.org/article.php?story=20130924120734910
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Wow@ police protection for neo Nazis. F***ing wild. That’s madness
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Kind of typical.
Here in the UK, when there are fascist marches etc, the cops police the anti-fascist protesters as hard as they do the nazis.
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Somewhere approximating home. Havin fun too finally saw her.
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I came across this article about a black family who were found on the streets of Madison, Wisconsin, huddled under some blankets. There were ten people in the family and they had left the Englewood area of Chicago to escape the out of control gun violence. I would encourage everyone to read it and tell me what you think. I was simply blown away by this:
http://www.thesmokinggun.com/buster/family-flees-chicago-violence-567912
This country of ours has failed miserably in so many ways.
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Damn.. Chicago has refugees now.
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Well no one said it was gonna be easy
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Well i thi k my cleay identified transpaarenxy policy as miss mary b called is you could on some level be considered the evil empire my fb friends are not just random you know they pretty much roadworthy but i took a pic tonite and shes mad her grandson only 2 was in it so now despite it all thats a problem well shes in there you know def mh iss cannot relate to the normies myself idk it is like epic me and her shes texting blah blah im leavin the state atm
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That was the other thing i wanted to talk about the pantheon of american heroes and also wat is the diff black lodge white lodge masonic that is also well about it. out.
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@peanut not my first guess
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^ dang don’t do that my eyes just jumped to I got engaged and my heart jumped for a second. but oh the wizard of oz in 3 d idk why they keep putting old movies in 3 d and in blu ray. come up with a sequel to it. I’m excited about finding dory coming out though lol.
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and they should’ve made a new lion king this was my fave scene from lion king 2 I do wonder what happened between kovu and nala http://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=deception+disgrace&FORM=VIRE3#view=detail&mid=099EF2224A579DABB781099EF2224A579DABB781
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No… top answer? Uh well it would reveal probably more of my thought process than anything. Make that obviously.
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@ Pamela
That is some bs sure call black ppl refugees they do this every dang time a black family moves away from natural disasters or violence. White ppl move and they don’t get called refugees. To me that is very telling, now I see why ppl question whether we are even citizens in their eyes or if we ever really became citizens after slavery. smh. Anyway i’m glad they got a place to stay for now I hope they can figure it out.
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Oh ok no pregnant it was. And well i didnt have to masturbate today is it worth it? Yes not even close despite it all
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I still did this morning its a guy thing oops tmi puttin my business out there whatevs been tryin get offline here anyway ttys
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At some point tho lettin my ppl no whats up on fb is even a safety feature not the pic i still think its relatively innocuous but these girls the use narcotics drink play with knives etc
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@Mussrand
White males have never been downtrodden in White dominated AmeriKKKlan. This country was built for them and the get privileges over us minorities in this country. I don’t buy any of their complaints that they are being discriminated against. This system was built for them and only them.
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@asplund i think it’s michael silverstein that originally ‘owned’ or was the primary on the twin towers?
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http://www.news24.com/SouthAfrica/News/SA-on-terror-alert-20130929
supposedly the mastermind is a white girl, a british subject
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Oh weird. That’s crazy.
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@mstoogood4yall:
Here are two more articles I found on the family in which they are NOT called ‘refugees’. The important thing, imo, is the circumstances this family wound up in and the reason why they had to leave their home in the first place. I see no point in quibbling over terminology.
http://host.madison.com/daily-cardinal/news/city/madison-police-sergeant-recognizes-colleagues-for-compassion-and-empathy/article_01ccc0d2-258f-11e3-97e7-001a4bcf887a.html
http://www.dnainfo.com/chicago/20130925/englewood/family-fleeing-englewood-found-huddled-under-blankets-wisconsin-report
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So worth watching – for a non-American perspective
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“To a man whose mind is free there is something even more intolerable in the sufferings of animals than in the sufferings of man. For with the latter it is at least admitted that suffering is evil and that the man who causes it is a criminal. But thousands of animals are uselessly butchered every day without a shadow of remorse. If any man were to refer to it, he would be thought ridiculous. And that is the unpardonable crime.” ~Romain Rolland, Nobel Prize 1915
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My apologies, but just because one might think an animal is “soulless” (WHATEVER that might mean), it is NOT a license to mistreat it anymore than one would a human being. Suffice it to say, I know whereof I speak.
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@TruthabouttheSituation
Wake up! I don’t and did not care what you believed, but you tried to claim it as fact. What you believe is not a fact and should not be peddled as such. What they believe is also not a fact and should not be peddled as such. I personally don’t care who a person dates or even marries. To each his own like i said before.
“If they aren’t, is it ok to support laws prohibiting interracial couples? That’s a direct attack on personal freedom. It is based on savage notions of racial purity that the vast majority of educated people reject. It is discrimination based on race. Remember when the Louisiana judge wouldn’t marry a black man and white woman? He was blasted (rightfully) all up and down the media. “—That is great but what part of any of this equals a fact. All I see is an opinion.
“Also it’s a sissy act to attack me when I can’t fight back, just like this bullying ban to begin with.”—I did not attack you when you couldn’t fight back. You were here to my knowledge still trying to tell me your opinion was a fact.
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@ Mary
I know you commented to me on open thread before it changed over and I can’t find it, but I will say that a lot of what Adeen says is true. I believe I am currently in her area and the whites here are just freaking rude. My sister politely said excuse me to a white female yesterday and she just stood there like she did not hear anything. My sister finally pushed pass her in which she responded as if she was the victim.
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To anyone who is interested- I sincerely thought people would be interested in my thought on the history topics, my being an historian.
Did the opposite, ie made me more hated than a racist. Damn.
I’m gonna lay low for a while, if I’m allowed to.
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@ Sharina: Wow. That’s crazy.
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@ Sharina: It sounds like you were having so much fun doing the cultural event you and your family were attending.
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@asplund i don’t feel like playing bookworm right now so i have basically read the topics but not the comments lately, ie tainos and spanish, because my life has been more to the forefront, really, but it’s difficult to take you seriously it seems like you have something to prove that you have a black gf, well i mean every dude at some point questions his … uh… size, but you seem to bring it up inappropriately and that is really not goin well with the female commenters if you didn’t notice, and like somehow you are proving to be a example of some type of thing but i’m losing that one now anyway …
i feel like i chased dave off too
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@ mary burrell
We are. I referred to this place as home on several occasions during our stay. I would love to move here.
@ v8driver
There are two things I think of when I hear penis bragging. 1) it is disrespectful 2) it is a sign of inadequacy.
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ah man i dont want to go back into the porn thread…
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Weird. I don’t think I’ve bragged on my Pernod once in my life except to my partner.
If you look back, you’ll see I sarcastically was like ” I bet I have a small penus too right?” as a dismissal of Internet shaming, not really a discussion of anyone’s penis size.
I just brought up my girlfriend because I accidentally posted in her name. I don’t get where a discussion ofy identity/ life started. I tend to brag as a joke. Maybe somewhere in there.
V8- thanks fir being a relatively warm commenter. This is a cold forum.
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Visiting Jerusalem when I was 17 years old, our church group crossed over into Jordan where we were all baptized in the Jordan River. After my own baptism, I wandered off in the water, took a big gulp of air and taking off my swim cap, I bent forward and dunked my headful of smashed curls into the water. As the river had a strong undertow, I was pulled down into it and landed on my feet on the bottom of the river. I, a non-swimmer with several feet of water over my head, And none of the othersabove the water even knew I was missing as they were all fixated on the baptisms still taking place. Panicking, I tried three times to propel myself to the surface before calmly allowing myself to settle back on the bottom and giving up. . . .
I won’t go into further detail but it is obvious that I am still here today to tell the story. . . .
Anyway, at another point during our stay in Jerusalem, the group took a ride in a sail boat, where later we regaled our Israeli tour guide with an assortment of gospel songs. I don’t recall the actual songs we sang, but every time I listen to the following song, “Peace be Stil” by James Cleveland, I think of sailing and singing on the sea of Galilee.
I am now an “atheist believer” but regardless of labels, I take my inspiration where I find it, and I find the following gospel song to be a powerful expression of faith and / or postive thinking (whichever phrase floats your boat).
(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yfIjj-wN93Y)
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http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/appeal-to-ridicule.html
maybe?
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@asplund it’s a tough room but people here (not all) will be nice to you if you are nice and try to stop and read back maybe before posting? I usually read my stuff 3-4 times before i click that magical post comment button
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@ Asplund
Here is proof that not only are you a stone cold liar but also a man of little to no integrity:
“Did you know I also live in my mother’s basement and have small penis?”—What you chose to admit to.
“and how could you know if I was “projecting” without seeing my location or my penis size? Do you want to take a peak?”
I don’t consider it a joke and if you regularly joke about this then more proof of your inadequacies. Men who are confident in their junk and in themselves do not brag. They don’t need to joke. It is only thos low confident clowns that see it as a key point to brag about.
Secondly you weren’t internet shamed. You were the one doing the shaming.
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And as a side note…yes I have very low tolerance for whining men.
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Lol @ sharina..
This dude is funnystyle tbh.. his alter ego is a sassy Nigerian woman. Bwahahaha then he says its his girl..who happens to also be a poster named rose? Lol what are the odds of a troll sock puppet having a girlfriend on the same blog who also happens to be a troll sock puppet..
Enough irony to make sharp creases
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Asplund said:
You think? I don’t find that. I find it to be more like a mirror. The perceived intentions and conduct of posters tend to get reflected. There is caution and some suspicion, but IMO it’s mostly justified.
I find this place informative.
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Abagond, just curious about why so many of my posts go into the mod queue? (My last one, for example).
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It took me about 2 years to get to really appreciate and participate fully. A lot of it was unloading trapped psyche issues – here i might add …. if you dont know you can google it – and chilling out to a large degree and dropping a lot of preconceived notions.
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Sharina-
Here is some bragging since you need it:
I gotta take Naija girl to lunch at Red Lobster this afternoon. I’ll be returning to comment this evening, buried in golden brown shrimp and cheddar bay biscuits. Be nice and you can get invited next time.
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Red lobster?
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@Aslpund
That is nothing to brag about, but I tell you what…I will respond at length when I get out of Epcot. Food and wine festival you know. Lol
Ps. You can’t afford me. ROFL
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Dennis White and Cherie Johnson Tell Their Story of Racial Profiling in South Carolina.
http://ireport.cnn.com/docs/DOC-1041070?ref=email
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What about Arby’s?
I can’t handle Florida. You will have to meet me in Alabama or Cuba one.
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Red Lobster? Couldn’t you do any better? Cheapskate.
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he’s gonna put lipstick on his hand
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There’s always White Castle (the cheapest and tiniest burgers around)! Your stomach will spend the rest of the day – and well into the night – trying to digest them.
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soup kitchen is free! might have to listen to some preachin tho
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Decided to go to Hardee’s instead.
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i used to go to hardees in 5th grade with money from mowing lawns
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it’s not the open thread its open season
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Lol @ White Castle. I like to save money but I’m not drunk enough for that.
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oh you should try it trippin
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on second thought naaaa
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V8-
Ha I don’t know if I could handle that. Might think an onion ring is talking to me lol.
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@mussandrad
LOL! Maybe he is another one of those split personality types.
@ Asplund
You can name what you like but the bottom line is you can’t afford me. Also I have made it clear I am married and the level of disrespect is disgusting. So from this point on I will respond to you on the level of substance that I find from your posts. Blah Blah Blah Brag Brag Brag Blah Blah Blah duh….
@ Everyone
This is the type of individual that TrojanPam has been talking about, but thank goodness some poor sole is already with him.
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you stupid asplund
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Sharina-
You’re only saying that because of your sense of inadequacy.
Asplund nailed it.
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and let me qualify that that lest i get banned for ad hominem you are a liar and rose naija girl you have major discrepancies and it bothers the ish out of me i tire of you nonsense and that is what i mean
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V8-
You sure changed your attitude fast.
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no dude you said you posted by accident as rose and naija girl dude i let you run that line out get it?
you called out
oh ish it’s xprateoris
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Hey Sharina-
I’m trying to remember what we were discussing originally? Was it interracial relationships? There was something I believe I asked about a judge? Where was it? Louisiana?
Didn’t you have some kind of rebuttal about something like that?
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and you brage and you a ashole not reppin white people good dude come on now i be drinkin but damn man you makin me really feel some type of way i dont even want to hear about falconing in the 1500’s from you tu sabes
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V8
Wtf?
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usc my alma mater has this iat not sure how old it is on morals about authority and challenging the status quo it could have more questions and stuff
eh its cool again you know we all cant be geniuses FAIL
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oh ye asplund im proud a what my momma and daddy gave to me and the girls said so FACE PALM
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What?
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@Asplund
Still nailing your head against a wall I see.
“Didn’t you have some kind of rebuttal about something like that?”—I did and I don’t repeat myself. Even for those that have obvious comprehension issues.
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Whatever Sharina. You didn’t reply at all to my argument- you just hurled a bunch of insults at some stranger.
Like it would be some kind of burden to copy and paste if you, and as if you would have let me get away with something you said.
Begone, troll!
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@ Asplund,
Check out this direct quote from a Wikipedia article on historians:
“[…] the various historiographies relevant to a broader interpretive or analytic synthesis[….]”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historian
Doesn’t it sound familiar to you?!
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any questions (asplund excepted)
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I’m not familiar with the quote. What reason are you bringing it up?
I’m nearing my exhaustion point with this forum- soon I fade into the mists of legend. I’m intrigued by your post though. Please continue.
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But all I have to really do is sit here and not say anything because this little debate is won and done. I made rebuttals that you can’t and won’t respond to. I even stated in one such that you would from this point on deflect (bet you on it) and guess what….. You have been doing nothing but that since.
The Louisiana thing is just a deflection.You only real opinion is to back up your claims or concede it as an opinion.
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Sharina-
Edit ” if you had” and ” you wouldn’t let me get away with it if I ignored something you wrote.
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@Asplund
“Like it would be some kind of burden to copy and paste if you, and as if you would have let me get away with something you said. “—No more of a burden than it would be for you to go to the thread it is on.
“Begone, troll!”—ROFL Lame.
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Lol Sharina,
You did it AGAIN!
You are impressive in what you make up. You should just go ahead and start calling me a racist like every one else who can’t argue for &$@$!
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Hey Sharona,
I don’t think I asked to this yet:
Do you think the Louisiana judge who refused to allow an interracial marriage us a bigot? I’d like to hear your thoughts in this.
LOL!
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FWIW,
I’m waiting on Pay it Forward to reply, because I’m very interested in what he’s getting that.
After that its off to the player’s ball.
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@ Asplund,
It was used in another commenter’s argument against you in the thread under Abagond’s post on “The Spanish”. The only thing is it wasn’t attributed to the Wikipedia article it was actually taken from but rather to “a friend” of said commenter.
Ah, well, it’s been said that bad habits are often very hard to break. . . .
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@ Asplund
” You should just go ahead and start calling me a racist like every one else who can’t argue for &$@$!”—I guess you think throwing around opinions and talking about your penis and cheapness equals master arguing. Delusional.
“Do you think the Louisiana judge who refused to allow an interracial marriage us a bigot? I’d like to hear your thoughts in this. “—Something else I responded to and you ran away from.
Because I can tell you are mentally challenged I will atleast point you to the threads they are on so you can see the time stamp for them as well.
My views on relationships between black women and white men
Comment policy
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Pay it Forward,
I appreciate you at least having something to argue based on more than speculation and calling me Eurocentric. I thank you for that from the bottom of my heart. You are the champion of this forum:
However, I could be wrong, but I interpret that quote to mean something different than, “let’s make up whatever suits our racialized agendas and avoid any discussion of sources. After all, we need a new historiography that uplifts our agenda, and we don’t need facts to back it up. When someone who can actually read Latin, Arabic, Spanish, and Old Castillian provides us with primary source material that completely contradicts our positions, we can just tell him that the evil Eurocentric folks brainwashed everyone, or that they burned all the history books up with all the black supermen who created everything. Then when they object to that because it’s an unfalsifiable claim, we can just shout him down calling him a white supremacist and gang up on him.”
There is a more pressing issue though:
Shamira (think I spelled it right):
“Do you think the Louisiana judge who refused to allow an interracial marriage us a bigot? I’d like to hear your thoughts in this. “
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V8-
You have issued my favorite reply- You are my favorite person on this site.
“You make me feel some type a way.”
LOL!
Let me find out.. …Let me find out….
Sharina’s opinion about that judge in Louisiana.
Seriously you seem like a cool guy. Enjoy the rest of your evening.
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Alright now I’m checking out. I guess you can reply (in fact I’m certain everyone will).
Here is my last statement as a poster:
Abagond, “darqbeauty” used a racial slur on the post “Why do whites demonize, fear, and look down on blacks.”
pax
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@ Asplund
Also while everything is getting thrown on the table.
“if dissent change the fact that people who are that clannish are frightened if the competition.”—You made this claim you need to prove it.
“Let me clear up this matter for you with facts rather than a bunch of emotional nonsense.
1. People who are opposed to interracial relationships are bigots.
2. My being opposed to bigotry isn’t a sign of inadequacy. Its a sufn of character. That’s just you using the same kind of bullshit shaming language as your whole “man up” spiel. Did you know I also live in my mother’s basement and have small penis?
You haven’t massacred a damn thing except for any semblance you possessing reason. You accuse me of inadequacy. I demonstrate I’d have no reason to feel inadequate. Yet that is somehow even more of a sign that in inadequate.
Stick to the facts sweetie. You don’t know anything about me.
People who are opposed to interracial relationships are clannish bigots.”—You need to prove this to be a fact.
“ou can walk into any university, government building, and most churches in this country and 99% of the people inside would be horrified at the thought of prohibiting interracial relationships””—You need to provide evidence to this.
Now these are all the claims you made that you need to support with other than your feelings or emotions. No more deflecting. Getting straight to the point.
“Shamira (think I spelled it right”–The mere fact that it is on the screen and you could not says a lot about your inability to read what is said in the first place.
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whoops forgot something:
Sharina:
Do you think the Louisiana judge who refused to allow an interracial marriage is a bigot? I’d like to hear your thoughts on this.
pax (for good this time!)
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@Asplund
“Do you think the Louisiana judge who refused to allow an interracial marriage is a bigot? I’d like to hear your thoughts on this.”—I already responded to this in comment policy. I will not be repeating myself. You can learn to read or just shut up.
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And let me be very clear on something. My opinion of that judge will not make it a fact. Something you still have to prove and have yet to do such.
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ah man i gotta see the breaking bad i cant read that thread now! 😦 i fell a sleep
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So you can either stop deflecting and address those things you claimed as a fact or you can continue to try to hold on to this Louisiana judge and his opinion in hopes of a winning hand. Either way you got nothing
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wow he just dont effin get it ahhh a little help here i cant no type of way make it clearer
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@v8driver
Don’t they play it online sometimes?
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Abagond, I know that you are busy and that many loyal posters have their own requests, however, I would love to see a post on the Moors AND on Dr. Evil…oops, I meant Dr. Marion Sims. *side eye* lol Anyways, yeah, would love to hear your views along with others on these topics. Thanks!
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oh yeah it probably on comcasts on demand but someones watchin the tv now and i am chatting with this nice black/native american girl from indiana now she is cool uhh… but aslund is on some other ish eh?
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@ darqbeauty
Both excellent suggestions! A post on the Moors is already in the works.
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Haven’t seen any discussions about this:
http://nypost.com/2013/09/24/i-wooed-my-man-with-a-sandwich/
Shaking my head at this.
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@ Assplund
The repeated, deliberate, sarcastic misspelling of a lady’s name is the level of discourse you are driven to? What a man.
This blog is not written for white people; its target audience is PoC. Whites are not required. Seriously, white people don’t get the easiest of rides here. The ones who do try to engage in real discussion have to consider their contributions carefully to avoid misunderstanding. You know why? Because most of the white commenters are just racist trolls, actors, liars. Some of them are very eloquent trolls (I don’t mean you), but trolls just the same (now I do mean you).
You fill the place with noise. You are rude. You think it’s all about you. But this isn’t my blog and I’m not its intended audience, so none of that is my concern. What is my business is that clowns like you make it all the harder for the rest of us white people to be accepted as participating guests. There is a lot to be learned here if you can just shut the fck up long enough to read for a while. You won’t agree with it all – I certainly don’t – but it will open your eyes.
Please, stop embarrassing us.
You said something earlier about fading into legend. Well, I’m afraid you’ll never be a legend (*snort*), but the fading away bit… That could work.
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@asplund
V8-
You have issued my favorite reply- You are my favorite person on this site.
“You make me feel some type a way.”
LOL!
Let me find out.. …Let me find out….
i don’t get it i actually talk like this what is it with you that was the nicest thing i could have possibly said and it is certainly not what i was thinking
i give up nm *iggie*
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@asplund one last thing, i must have replied to you 12-15 times, not sure how much made it through the censor but that’s the one thing you picked out that you make me feel some type of way? that is just what did Lucy used to say from peanuts?
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@grin and bear it:
I read the article you posted, but I was already aware of this lady and her quest for an engagement ring by fulfilling her boyfriend’s wish for 300 sandwiches. I don’t have a problem with what she’s doing because that is between the two of them, but at first I did think it was a little strange.
It almost seems like a price tag or a test she has to take in order to be rewarded with the ‘prize’, which is marriage to him. It makes me question his honesty about how he really feels about her: is he serious or is he just playing a game? Men have been known to play games, and I sincerely hope that’s not what’s going on here.
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@Pamela and grin and bear it
I thought it was some joke when I heard about it. I alao would have told him straight “take me as I am or don’t take me at all.”
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http://dailykenn.blogspot.com/2012/05/2-how-many-americans-know-that-first.html
Here’s an article discussing black owned black slaves in early America. It is a topic I had not heard of before. It referrences Dr. Lois Gates in several instances and some of his quotes, if accurate, are remarkable.
Is this material true? Can this be refuted? If it is true, does it change the discussion of race and oppresion in this country (United States)? My point being that, again if true, then slavery was not about mastery of one race over another due to hate and prejudice, but of economics and power of wealth. The claim is made that several former slaves became slave holders themselves in a bid to amass more land and wealth. It is also claimed that many (90%) of black slaves from Africa were in fact already slaves to other black tribes and they were sold to European traders as a commodity.
The article sites sources, but sources can be impugned. This site has many readers with very good research tools. Can someone here take a look at this and maybe do a post on it?
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@Riverside_Rob
I can’t address this at length just yet but from information I have found in the past only about 28% of free slaves ownes slaves and it waa family members or people they were attached to that they brought.
The information of Africans selling their own is old and have been discusses at length. Find the thread that discusses it.
Another note to make is that there was a law back then(one source I found) that stated if a white person wanted you as a slave or to work for them (free or not). They could obtain you as a black and you had little say. So I would not be quick to account it as not dealing with prejudice and regardless it will not excuse slavery no matter the skin color of master.
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Anything beginning with someone’s opinion I generally take with a grain of salt. For starters the 2012 fbi crime stats state the blacks commit 49.3% of murder. Of those that were juvenile 51.5% of them committed violent crimes (which includes more than simply murder).
In the case of Johnson this struck me as odd “but prohibiting them from owning white slaves.” If it was about profit then I don’t understand why owning a white slave would be prohibited. Slaves would profit all the same. Also quoting “In 1657, Johnson’s white neighbor, Edmund Scarborough, forged a letter in which Johnson acknowledged a debt. Johnson did not contest the case. Although Johnson was illiterate and could not have written the letter, the court granted Scarborough 100 acres of Johnson’s land to pay off his “debt”.[5] In this early period, free blacks enjoyed “relative equality” with the white community. Around 20% of free blacks in Virginia at this time owned their own homes, and half of those were married to white women.[22]
By 1665, racism was becoming more common. The Virginia Colony had passed a law in 1662 that children were born with the status of their mother, according to the Roman principle of partus sequitur ventrem; therefore, all children of slave women were born into slavery. This was a reversal of English common law, which held that for English subjects, children took the status of their father. Africans were considered foreigners and not English subjects.” http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anthony_Johnson_%28American_Colonial%29
Seems to have been left out of an article where he was supposingly telling the truth.
Second source he provides is a youtube. Better and more credible source would have been actual documents or a historical find. I am not seeing where it mentions that the majority of slave owners were members of the mulatto class. http://slaverebellion.org/index.php?page=the-black-slave-owners
There were only 3000 blacks that owned slaves.
Many of the sources he provide do not support what he is saying. He stats black attacks were common but gives a source that is an autobiography of one individual in one area. Half truths don’t make it “THE” truth.
@Others
I often find it funny that some wish to seek the truth when it comes to something of black people but will bury their heads in the sand when seeking the truth of white people. This article(blog opinion piece) that Riverside_Rob solidified the idea of a double standard.
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normally i don’t read riverside_rob’s comments too closely, but it was my impression in the southern us states during the slavery period there would be no free black people. similarly, i don’t understand how a slave could own another slave,
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honestly, i’m not stuck on this idea, i just never heard it before, could such a condition have existed in the border states like kansas or whatever
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@ V8driver
I do believe their were some degree of free blacks, but not to the extent that some people like to peddle it off as. Most of those free blacks were mulatto from my understanding. Some came over free and others were indentured servants who worked off their freedom. There are also cases of master freeing them etc. Once free they could purchase a slave. Usually a relative if they could find them.
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ok
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@ Riverside Rob
Daily Kenn is sometimes right but sometimes misleading. Louisiana, for example, before the Civil War was hardly typical of the South: it followed French law and custom. Google “Creoles abagond” for more.
As Sharina said, many black slave owners, particularly in Virginia, owned their relatives for legal reasons. It was a paper slavery. Even Skip Gates will tell you that.
Africans selling “their own” into slavery has been argued to death here. There is a post on it. See the Broken Records tab at top.
The Cherokee, wanting to be just like white people, owned slaves, so it is not surprising they fought for the South.
That people do not leave the land of their birth hardly proves it was “not so bad”. By that measure lynching and Jim Crow were not so bad.
The number of black slaves owned by blacks was piffling compared to the millions owned by whites. I do not see how that affects reparations substantially. It was not like they owned an equal and opposite number of white slaves so that everything cancels out or something.
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@ Pamela & Grin & Bear It: After the 300th sandwich, then he will come out of the closet.
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A post on Dr. Marion Sims would be good. Evil bastard.
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Since the film “12 Years A Slave” is coming out. A post on Solomon Northrup would be good as well.
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@mary burrell
ROFL
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But Mary you know the thing that bothers me most is the hoops she is willing to jump through for a marriage. It worries me because I see more and more women bending over backwards to obtain marriage. Which in many cases are followed by divorce or years of extreme depression.
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@ Sharina: I agree, something is weird about this. But, then again maybe that’s their thing. If she doesn’t mind being the sandwich maker, I guess I should just let it be that. But something is crazy about that to me.
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Re: Dr.
Marion Simsmore like Dr. Sadomasochist, the statue in Central Park should be taken down, in the same vein as Coach Paterno.LikeLike
@ Sharina: The operative word. The hoops. It does seem kind of desperate.
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@lifelearner: You mean to tell me there is a statue in this monster’s honor? They know what this man did to black women, yet they erect a statue. “Wow”
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When I read about this monster it made me sick. That just goes to show you the depravity in this demon’s soul.
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A statue? Wow, that is sick. Is there one of Mengele too? If not, why not?
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Well to my understanding the statue was erected circa 1800s and the book by Harriet Washington was written in the 2000s, so really most people wouldn’t know the true about this this evil man.
Here’s a link to the statue, http://www.centralparknyc.org/visit/things-to-see/north-end/dr-j-marion-sims.html
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He is regarded as a controversial figure for his experiments on black slave women. I am sure there are lots of white people who don’t believe he committed these atrocities.
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Why would they? We have nuts coming in here trying to say slavery never existed. Nothing surprises me.
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@ Sharina: I certainly thought about that.
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@ Sharina: Or slavery wasn’t that bad. ” You people need to get over something that happened over 400 years ago”
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I haven’t seen this film yet, I hope Abagond will write a review or write about the event,http://movies.nytimes.com/movie/471552/Let-the-Fire-Burn/trailers. Anyone else seen it yet?
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I think people should get over the past. My parents refuse to let the past go and it is eating them alive. They had all leftists for what happened under Mao, and they hate all Japanese for what happened in Nanking. Their own personal lives are not affected by those things. They use them as crutches to vent their frustrations. I’m not saying anyone here is doing that. I know some people do. My parents are good examples of that. I don’t hate any Japanese person. To me that’s counterproductive.
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@Meng Tzu
It is not so much the past as it is what people are doing today. I judge on the individual and not the group as a whole. We have people today arguing that slavery never existed etc. I will go into detail on why I believe why later.
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Regarding blacks owning black slaves, the family angle makes perfect sense – it was the only way to opeate within the system to keep their families together. Good idea and good explanation.
Thanks
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I found this article by Victor Hanson on our President’s tranformation of this country. He describes what occurs on this site, without judgement, and attributes it correctly in my opinion.
http://nationalreview.com/node/359967/print
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That Would surely take some guts to live in a rebel flag state as a free black believing in the power of the pen in light of abductions and stuff
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@Riverside_Rob
Not sure how an article that focuses on Obama describes what occurs on this site.
You still believe everyone on here supports Obama so your opinion would be tainted in the respect.
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Can someone clear this up for me, if one group of people sell another group of people as slaves to a third group, does that absolve the third group of buying the slaves? Or is the third group still held accountable for their actions? I may be wrong, but it seems that the group buying the slaves understands what they are doing and thus should answer for their actions on their own without having to deflect onto a made-up scape goat. Also, I always wonder why people who claim ancestry that is “brave” and “intelligent” would need to excuse their actions if they feel they are so perfect. They should be able to face the fall out of whatever they did they same way they revel in the success.
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@ Anne
So true.
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dialectical_monism
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White man, slaps crying black infant on a descending plain and refers to the child as the, “N” word.
I read about this, months ago. Just to be clear, the mother of the child was a white woman, that was holding the child, while this 61 year old white man, slapped the child and called the infant, the “N” word.
http://www.cnn.com/2013/10/03/travel/crying-boy-assault/index.html
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And I would have beat the sh*t out of that white man too. Security would be carrying off that plane.
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Sharina:
That is the same thing I was thinking and I wish they would have charged with with some assault for protecting my infant from being attacked by a racist.
This is considered a “hate crime” being he used a racial slur, toward the infant.
Don’t even get me started on white mother of this black child. Didn’t even seem to care that much about a white man, that attacked her child, verbally and physically. It’s to be expected, being white women are passive and timid.
White women, can’t protect black children from their own, racist white men and women.
So yeah, just like you, I would have literally tried to “Kill” this man if he would have put his hands on any child of mine and not to mention, use a racial slur!
Any black person would lose it, if you not only put your hands in their children but call our child a “N” n the process! You’re looking for your life to be snuffed out!
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“Kiwi
@ sondis
I read the comments made by whites on Yahoo News months ago. Many of them were saying that the child deserved it. In fact, they seemed angrier that the white man was being called racist, not that a baby got attacked.”
You will not get a surprised look on my face—> o_o
This is to be expected in a country that despises black people.
We are never innocent, even our INFANT CHILDREN AREN’T INNOCENT IN THE EYES OF WHITE PEOPLE!
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I mentioned this before but I am seeing a string of crazy white people letting loose these days. I am shocked. I have to wonder if it is the idea of them becoming the minority that is making them crazy. I keep praying and praying the ones in my area keeps their senses, but you just never know.
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“sharina
I mentioned this before but I am seeing a string of crazy white people letting loose these days. I am shocked. I have to wonder if it is the idea of them becoming the minority that is making them crazy. I keep praying and praying the ones in my area keeps their senses, but you just never know.”
Sharina, I’ll tell you what i believe, the reason is why white people are seemly more vocal and aggressive towards black people these days, since the civil rights movement.
The instability of the America economy, jobs not being plentiful and available for white folks.
I am not sure if you know but when white people are feeling like they are not getting, what they feel, they’re entitled too as white people, they get angry and take their frustration out on black people, being we are their scapegoat for their problems.
When white people get just a “taste” of what black people go through, our whole lives, they go out of their minds and start lashing out at any and every black person.
when the housing crisis, caused the recession back in 2008, lots of white folks, lost their homes and jobs. White folks never felt anything like this before, unlike black folks that go through these “recessions” our whole life and therefore, we know how to made do with very little, when it comes to food, bills ect.
White people are feeling the heat for the 1st time in a long time, so their first reaction is to go back to blaming and attacking black people,not the white policy makers that have causes this Country to fall, economically.
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@mary burrell, Sharina, and Pamela:
Sandwich guy does look like Queer Eye’s Carson Kressley. LOL. Mostly, though, I think the story is more a publicity stunt than anything else, especially since she works for the Post, which initially carried the story, and she has a food blog.
But it did put me in the mind of the discussion I believe you all had with Sondis about white men actually committing to marriage and family with black women. Sandwich dude has been with this woman for over two years, and is now publicly stringing her along with a proposal in exchange for some “sammiches”. How vile. That there’s a black/white component to this makes it even more eyebrow raising. I say, if he honestly wanted to marry her, he’d marry her. If they’re both in their mid- to late 30s, and have marriage as a goal, why would it take over 3 years plus 300 sandwiches to seal the deal?
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@ sondis
I remember that incident. that fool is saying his son was in the hospital and was having a hard time smh. As if that is supposed to excuse his slapping a baby and using the n word and being drunk. I still don’t know how tsa didn’t catch that he was drunk. The parents smh everytime I see the vid of them saying yeah I hope he’s embarrassed after what he’s done *face palm* really I hope he gets found guilty and gets locked up and has a hard time finding employment. But embarrassed pfft u hope that ur rival is embarrassed or a frienemy is embarrassed but this clown hopes a racist is embarrassed. rofl They don’t know what they doing if that was me i’d have been like here stewardess hold my baby and slapped him see how he likes it. Dang any real parent would go to prison or die for their child, matter of fact my dad would always tell me and my brother that if anybody hurt us he going to prison. lol
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the sandwich couple smh. Who wants to eat sandwiches that dam much. the guy does not look like he’s into her but is more into sandwiches and other men.
Rofl grin and bear it u right he do look like carson. I think it is just craziness, she needs to stop making sandwiches for him go sell some sandwiches woman. What’s next is she gonna propose to him if he doesn’t. somebodies desperate. when I saw them I thought they were friends or he was her gusband. a. gusband is a gay male that a woman spends so much time with and they know so much about each other and love each other just not in a relationship way and the woman secretly wishes that he was her man. that is what this seems like to me, this reminds me of Charles from sweetie pies. how can these women not tell or are they just desperate or want to see what they want to. smh.
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he kinda look like the prince from shrek rofl http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20100523191408/shrek/images/archive/7/70/20100523191709!Prince_Charming.jpg
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Then there was the two year old in a Georgia Walmart, same thing. The young mother was shopping with her toddler, and an angry white man told her to shut the kid up, or he would do it for her. The mother was frightened, and tried to move to another aisle of the supermarket. He followed her and slapped her toddler. He was arrested and is now in prison, for assaulting the young child. Even children are not safe from these demons.
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This assault on the two year old in walmart happened in September 2009. In Stone Mountain Georgia.
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@Mary Burrell
I told you I was right about White people. We really need to start loving ourselves, separate from these White devils and rely on ourselves economically. I am sick of living among them and being around them. Them and their depraved ways make me sick. I don’t see why they hate yet are obsessed with us.
Remember that one incident when that Black woman shot her gun in the air because her husband or boyfriend was abusing her. She went to jail for twenty years because of self defense. She even tried using the Stand Your Ground for her case but it didn’t work. And it was here in Florida(I live in Florida) too. SMH, I believe that Stand Your Ground law is what angry, White males or racist Whitewashed non Black minorities like George Zimmerman use when they kill a Black person with impunity.
I maybe be in my late teens but I am getting so sick of White people these days!
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mstoogood4yall:
Yeah, i hope he gets jail time but i doubt it. White folks are not punished, when they harm black people.
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Adeen:
http://tv.msnbc.com/2013/09/26/marissa-alexander-will-get-a-new-trial
Thank god! she has another chance at freedom!
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mary burrell:
I’m not surprised by that walmart incident, white people do not like black children.
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@Sondis
And when I read that link, I was glad she had another chance at freedom too. I really think these people are sick. They will always try to harm us with impunity luckily we are a strong and beautiful race and we can get through this together.
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@mstoogood4yall
Lol at the term “gusband”! I learn something new from you young people all the time. I hadnever heard of that term before I think it’s rather fitting for this woman and her “man”. In the picture that I saw of the sandwich maker and her “man” he looked a little sweet for my taste. But that’s just me. I have to agree with Sharina. It does seem like a lot women are jumping through hoops to get men to marry them. I thought I read somewhere that she and he have been dating (living together perhaps?) for three years. I’m pretty sure that a man should know after three years whether or not he wants to commit to marriage with a particular woman. Wth does she have to make you 300 sandwiches for you to commit to marrying her?! After three years together (iirc), shouldn’t he have sampled her cooking by now? I hope and pray this is a publicity stunt like someone said.
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http://kennsvideos.blogspot.com/2013/10/black-man-gets-job-doesnt-let-race.html
This story is about a young man that amaze and inspire you – not matter who you are. Human spirit triumphs.
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…that will amaze and inspire…
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@Riverside_Rob
It’s called being inspired or rather driven. Happens more than you give credit to (not saying it to be bitchy but saying it to be honest).
Check out:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newsvideo/weirdnewsvideo/8571086/Man-with-no-limbs-attempts-ocean-swim.html
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@ sondis
I am “White” and I like “Black” children just as much as those of any other group… I might even be predisposed to like them a little bit more because I sort of feel frustrated on their behalf. However, it depends on the child – brats come in all colors 🙂
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right. I _was_ going to let that one go but kids are way cooler than adults when it comes to the pre-conceived notion department, in general
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But i also agree if someone smacked my kid it would be some fresh assault charges.
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@ Paige
“brats come in all colors”—That is very true, but in this mans case he really just went too far.
@v8driver
“But i also agree if someone smacked my kid it would be some fresh assault charges.”–Agreed
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I am most distressed over the issue of mental health that is happening in the African American community. Aaron Alexis who is now dead, now the latest is the young woman in D.C. who had mental health issues. She was shot and killed at the nation’s capital. Our community needs to address these issues where mental health is concerned. I am sadden for her death and even sadder her young child is without a mother.
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I agree 100% mh is not taken seriously at all. Also the driver was on antidepressants and antipsychotics as was the actor in almost every extremely violent pyschotic episode lately it seems.
On a lighter note, big date tonite a real nice person im nervous as all getout
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v8driver: Agree with your comment. Good luck on your date tonight.
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I don’t think the law officers should have just killed her like that. They could have shot the tires out. I am so tired of black people being shot like animals.
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@ Sharina
I wasn’t condoning his actions, I was responding to a statement by Sondis about how White people supposedly don’t care about Black children. He didn’t specify whether he meant most, some, or all White people, so I wanted him to know that at least some, if not most, White people do care about Black kids.
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@Paige
I did not mean it to sound as if I felt you were condoning his actions. It was more of a I agree, but he made me mad azz hell kinda thing.
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@Paige: I believe these are just evil and hateful people. This does not apply to all white people. The one’s that perpetrated this violence on these kids are horrible people.
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@ mary
I saw the article about the black woman suffering from post partum depression when she did. It is just sad all around the child lost her mother, the cops shouldn’t have shot to kill, they could’ve tazed her and dragged her out the car. I’m glad the girl is safe and I wonder who will raise her now. Sometimes people are ignorant about mental illness some ppl think going to a therapist or getting help is a sign of weakness. People just stigmatize things so much that ppl are ashamed to get help and others knowing and treating them differently. Then some parents think it is something they’ve done that caused their child to be that way. It definitely needs to be a discussion about mental illness
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@ mstoogood4yall: Everything you said was true. This was so sad on so many levels.
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@ sharina & mary
I know, some people have really sick ways of thinking. I can’t imagine slapping a child and insulting his whole culture in one fell swoop.
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@ mary burrell
It would be good, sure.
When you said there was a monument to him, Abagond was surprised
(“A statue? Wow, that is sick. Is there one of Mengele too? If not, why not?”).
The subject of Marion Sims was suggested at least once before, and I recall the statue (on Park Avenue, New York, if memory serves?) was mentioned…
I don’t think I have ever seen an article gynaecology anywhere lately (lol).
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On this week’s episode of “white privilege”
Remember the 18 year old white blonde teenager that was in a sexual relationship with a 14 year old black girl? Well, after refusing 3 plea deals from a “white judge”. She “agreed” to a deal that will not have her to not only registered as a sex offender for the rest if her life, she also will not have a felony on her record! How that for white privilege?
Must be grand to be white in America!!!!!!!
(http://youtu.be/uLPkmotxa_0)
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@Bulanik: Hello, good to see you.
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@sondis: Hello how are you sir?
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@mary burrell. Hello, I have a little time to myself, so dropped by 😀
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Mary Burrell:
I’m alright on this fine weekend! Thanks for asking. ^_^
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Those cops, murdered that black woman in DC and didn’t even know her baby was in the back seat, they could have easily killed the child with their reckless shooting at a mother, scared to death of all those white police officers, pointing their guns at her while screaming and shouting. Any mother would panic and drive off, being she had a child in the back seat, thinking thy would kill her baby and her!
White cops show no kind of restraint, when it comes to black suspects.
I am 100% positive that if this was a white mother with her white baby in the back seat, they would have did everything in their power to preserve her life but the fact that this woman was black, it was shoot first and ask questions later and shoot to kill at that!
They could have surrounded her car with police cars, there were enough of them, Jesus!
These white police depts all over America always have an excuse for why they kill black people, so I’m nit buying their version of justification.
Watch the video below of the white 18 year old teenager that not only swings at a police officer, he pulls a gun from one of the 9 police officers that were trying to “subdue” him( something that never happens to a black person, we are beaten into submission ) when he pulls the gun, he actually fire off a shot into the wall and lives to tell about it!
These cops didn’t harm one hair on his chiny chin chin! Proof that white police officers will make it a point to never kill a white person, even if the white police officers life is in danger!!!!
Do I have to ask any black people on this blog, what would have happened if this 18 year old was a black teenage boy? I digress…..
(http://youtu.be/LHuOOqSP2iM)
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(http://youtu.be/tPkTjLPGDok)
Sister of slain black woman in DC, speaks out!
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(http://youtu.be/HAYuOzfdTKc)
(http://youtu.be/uNcyP3PvaC0)
More….
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yea, bs they didn’t know she had a kid in the car.
she was up against the barriers and totally hemmed in, it is to some degree a race issue but the police state has gone way too far in terms of deadly force, patrolmen haveing submachine guns in their trunk, etc. it is a cold and callous disregard for the american people in general.
i mean do we have to see police at every sporting event, walkin around lookin like general rommel, it is just freakin ridiculous, call this a free county my ass.
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@miss mary b thanks, it was fun, we went bowling
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@Sondis
How are you? Yes I did hear about that incident where this 18 year old White girl was having an lesbian affair with a 14 year old Black girl. Of course, she would get off free, she is White. According to White AmeriKKKKlan, White is right and Black is bad.
These people always prove me right about them, I swear!
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It was mentioned by a commenter in the “ANT: Abagond New Testament” hread that there is archaeological evidence for the tomb of Christ.
Actually, there are two sites which are claimed as the site of the entombment of Jesus Christ: I just so happened to have visited both (I’ve just recently mentioned that I traveled to Israel as a teen in a comment concerning my baptism).
Below is a pic of the “garden tomb” — the one which comes closest to fitting the NT description.
Nearby the tomb is what’s claimed to be Golgotha (“skull”), the top of which is mentioned in the NT as being the site of the Crucifixion.. As I recall, it does sort of resemble the face of a skull when its viewed from a particular angle.
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Continued …
The second site, sometimes referred to as the “traditional” site of the tomb of Christ, is located inside a church, the building of which was commissioned by the mother of Emperor Constantine.
With regards to the tomb, all I recall seeing was an ornately decorated area with a circular impression in the floor — said impression supposedly being the spot where the tomb had been located.
The reason (which I’m just now learning) for there not being anything of the tomb to see is due to the original edifice, along with the tomb contained within, having been destroyed centuries ago by the Persians, as is mentioned in the following link.
http://community.beliefnet.com/cauleys/blog/2011/05/04/universal_life_church_-_crucifixion_site__tomb_of_jesus_christ
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http://www.ladailypost.com/content/brief-history-psychotropic-drugs-prescribed-mass-murderers
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@ sondis
The police could’ve handled that situation a whole lot better, they could’ve deployed spike strips and did a pit maneuver. Her daughter is in foster care I hope her family can get her. It makes me sick that they are praising the cops for this, yeah congrats on killing an unarmed woman when yall same mofos would’ve been more patient had that woman been white. No way they’d shoot with a white child in the car and u see the bs they take armed killers like james holmes, the boston bomber, the fort hood shooter, they all armed and killed ppl get taken into custody alive, but an unarmed woman is dead and they pat each other on the back. Cowards.
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oh and the way they acted like heroes “rescuing” her daughter from the car after they shot and killed her. smh yeah go “rescue” the girl who was in the car u were just shooting at and who no longer has a mother. I just pray that girl gets back to her family cuz lord knows they love putting kids in foster care for longer than necessary even when they have capable family right there. I don’t know about the father of the child all I know is he in his 50’s if he is good then I hope he gets custody if not I hope the grandmother and aunts can help raise her.
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ugh that white woman needs to be registered if she was a male of any race she would be in deeper than this. And the way they act as if the girl isn’t a victim smh is so disgusting. Her face and name are out there so hopefully people keep their kids away from her especially black kids and kids of color as we know they are not protected.
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@mstoogood
I think Obama was hitting that tbh… He silenced her before Michelle found out
That theory makes way more sense than the official story
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^ sure…. and why didn’t they silence his alleged gay lover too. I don’t think o was messing with that woman especially since the media is always up his arse.
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Abagond.. I was wondering if you would do a story on the unarmed black woman killed by capitol police in front of her baby.. Miriam Carey. (Her race shouldn’t matter, but I know it does to you and some of your readers) You can’t believe the official story on this. Do some research on independent media.
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@ Dave
I will look into Miriam Carey. Might do a post on her, depending on what I find out. Thanks.
@ Peanut
I will definitely do a post on Solomon Northup. Thanks. I hope to get it up before October 18th when “12 Years a Slave” opens. I might do a post on the film too.
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I just having one of those blue days. I really do miss my drums, dancing in the rain, writing like a mad man, Singing into the wind, flirting just for the fun of it. No, all those things seem to have been put into a cage. Old me and new me just stare and rage. Having to be aquatic in surface but turbulent under. I need a long walk but it just doesn’t look as if those shoes fit anymore. So I guess it is confront the dark cellars and focus. There is something I miss but I have yet to find out what it truly is. I hope everyone else is on a more lighted path and the sun is shining, and life is singing sweetly to you. Good Night.
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i miss my guitars man
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whistle…………..
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(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WiW0Xr8dNr0)
KOT , sorry you miss your drums ( and your guitars, V8)…here is my New York City , Manhattan gig , I did in June , where Im playing some drums , with some great Afro diasporic grooves, Samba, and Candomble…on the cut , Juju , by Wayne Shorter, my son is playing some new beats he picked up from Candomble , from Salvador , Bahia…yeah, my son is very connected to Afro diasporic culture ..that is a mean pandeiro he is playing on the samba, also
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(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WiW0Xr8dNr0)
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@ BR
Very cool video! The lad with the yellow tee and the vest is your son?
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Rick…yes , he is my son…thanks
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@B.R.
Nice! Always pictured your son as quite younger.
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Thanks, Sharina…he is actualy 25…the truth is..he really helps to take care of me…Im very lucky, because he isnt doing the long distance love thing…he really is helping take care of me in my old age..and i need it…i cant carry drums anymore, i dont have a back
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@ BR
You’re very lucky to play together! Both my daughters play instruments, but we live too far apart to jam. I’d love to get to make music with my kids.
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Rick, his mother is the samba dancer , it is a dream to work together , but , its really tough out there to get work, you have to be a guerrilha warrior on the underbelly of the business to make things happen…we do get around , though
Legion, good to see you back, and, that nothing took you permanently away
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Nice video BR! Love the music too!
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B.R
The O H (Other Half) loves this – big up to you man. It being a family affair too. Good stuff. Can you recommend any artistes in this genre of music?
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@Dave
Why are you concerned about an unarmed Black woman getting murdered by White policemen?
I know I am because I feel unsafe whenever I walk out the door of my home. This country is not safe for Blacks like me at all. What if I get shot by the police for doing nothing but being in the wrong place at the wrong time and we both know these White policemen don’t value the life of Black people.
I call America AmeriKKKlan for a reason!
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(http://www.youtube.com/user/91849/videos?view=0&shelf_index=0&sort=dd)
I apreciete it , Kwamla ( I will never fail to admit, Ive learned great things on here from you, Kwamla, no matter what are debating positions) and Omnipresent
Omnipresent , my youtube channal, above, is stocked with great artists from this kind of style, its above,if wordpress can show it correctly, I have trouble with them sometimes
Elza Soares is always a great inspiration for us in terms of Afro Brazilian energy and expresion…Wayne shorter in the Miles Davis period is another great influence…my son lays down a great hip hop and James Brown dance ethic also
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(http://www.youtube.com/user/91849/videos?view=0&shelf_index=0&sort=dd)
thanks, Kwamla and Omnipresent (my youtube channal is above with more artists in this vein)
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some comments in moderation…thanks Kwamla and Omnipresent (Im trying to get my youtube channal up here to you for more artists)
Legion..sure, its fine with me if you contact me through Abagond
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(http://www.youtube.com/user/91849/videos?view=0&shelf_index=0&sort=dd)
omnipresent, there are similar artists here
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Thanks BR but it is hard to get a taiko here and the wine barrel ones will take some work before I even start. Now there is a stress reliever going out into the park and just pounding out the beats. (Thank you for the video) .
I was a little sad because even though I thought that Kool-Aid volcanos would be fun to teach the kids, I ran right into red tape. Food Security issues plus my Director doesn’t think it is appropriate for 19 months. Which I feel like science and the observation of science is good at any age as long as there are adult controls on it.
I did get some bell xylophones and chromaharp to let them experience music. I am working on some snare drums, and making maracas, and other percussion and noise makers. I swear all these laws can drive an educator crazy.
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@ Kiwi
I will look into them. Thanks.
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Watching the new south park. Wow. Its over the top. ‘World war zimmerman.’
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in todays edition of racism(white supremacy) is global http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1806683-gymnast-simone-biles-parents-speak-out-about-carlotta-ferlitos-racist-remark
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Typical…
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i just feel like psychilly connected to sw philly too like when one does well so does the other its hard to explain like i left and did good and came back and shit was better and last winter when i was getting all f’ed up my friends were too it’s wierd
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good story about a negative being turned into a positive
http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/lifestyle/2013/10/red-lobster-waitress-gets-10k-tip-after-racist-receipt/?date50003500050003
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is the willie lynch letter a legit historical document? it seems to have some anachronisms in it like ‘balls floating in a vacuum’ 1712? really? but if you look at mlk/malcom x from this context it explains a lot
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@ mstoogood4yall: I read about that. I am glad that happened for that young sister.
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@v8driver: I heard the Willie Lynch letter was a hoax.
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i think so
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it seems like that protocols of zion thing
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@v8driver: I think you are correct.
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Legion, I got the messege today, thanks , Abagond , ill look it up, its hard for me to get books without a card…thanks
I do a 25 minute workout I learned a long time ago from a great dancer at her class…700 stomach crunches with yoga poses after that , and stretch…if I do any physical exercise that is new or a little strenuous, I may even get good results, but , inevitably, a crisis comes in
Ill check it out
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ha, the ones who serve ayauhasca? the guilt drug? Everyone i tlked to who uses it , felt guilty and vomited….Ill think Ill pass on that
Actualy maybe faith healers are differant…someone reccomended bee stings…i passed on that also…
Everyday is a matter of taking responsibilty for y back, try to deal with crisis when they come, and try to stay active, especialy playing drums and being able to walk…if any thing messes with being able to walk to the store, it isnt good,,
Amazon accepts checks? I dont have a credit card
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B.R., amazon will take your bank acct for pymt. You will hv to provide yr acct & route #s when u set-up an acct.
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v8driver,
The many anachronisms are basically what gives away the so-called “Willie Lynch” letter as being a hoax those plus the fact that it cab’t seem to be traced beyond its pooping up suddenly on the internet sometime back in the 90s.
I remember reading about on some forum or other and doing a search on it. Man was I disappointed. since, to me, there is absolutely not profound about it. When you stop and think about this “Willie'” person’s instructions to the slaveholders, after supposedly being paid by them to hear him speak, its all just plain and simple common sense.
If any of that did actually take place, though, the slaveholders should definitely have demanded their money back.
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lol *pooping up*
My apologies for the many typos.
One day I’ll learn to proofread my comments before posting them.
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thanks for the info, Temple
Legion, I have arthiritic discs, they say there is no cure, just pain management…I apreciete your advice, and in my slow way, since ive been looking for help for decades , and sort have whittled it down to a program best for me ,ill look into this valuable info …i sleep on the floor in hotel rooms, carry a weight belt and an assortmant of rubber balls to massage my back on the wall, among other things
Peanut…you can do it if you want to…family can be with you on your journies, in your heart, and all the modern ways to be in touch…look in your heart, and if Salvador is the place for your soul, you should at least think of giving it a short commitment…you have to change your visa every six months anyway if you dont have a residend visa
I met a beatiful black female piano player from the States, in Salvador, last time I was through, and she said she was thinking of living there , and I thought about you…I dont know if she ever made the commitment
I hope you do, you will never look back…I think
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what i been sayin on my fb of late is you think things are bad now wait till ssdi get cut off
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dear mr. president…
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it’s odd that the government’s ‘best efforts’ and ‘good intentions’ is gonna enable and invoke the very thing it’s there to prevent, limagein that
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(http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=G4exZ-jXgWE#t=573)
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Lets see Legion and the rest of the whites defend these pigs like they always do.
Lets see the crime statistics meme.
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“Average Bee
Lets see Legion and the rest of the whites defend these pigs like they always do.
Lets see the crime statistics meme.”
You better believe its coming….
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(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nisr8DHzuTU)
I’m not sure if it was disabled, but this goes with the above post.
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dope speech given by marc lamont hill at the nj naacp:
( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wFZlBfaHxZc )
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where was that in Philly.
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Thanks, Legion, it will take a minute for me to do it..can you tell me about your Brazil trip?
D, thanks for being willing to disscuss it here
Im hoping you can look at the tap clip and respond to my points without me having to cut and paste it here…and my points how valuable tap is, like seeing parralel Afro disporia cultures like I showed in Brazil, and that putting down Armstrong was real and was covered in the Ken Burns docu, it wasntt about just changing, there was a politicl agenda that destróyed black culture, TAP hás never recovered
And this all ties in with the political agenda against interracial sex
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Hi all,
Alvin Hall has made an interesting documentary for BBC Radio about the African American music industry from its beginnings up the present day. It focuses on the business aspects – who influenced and controlled things etc.
I know some people have trouble accessing BBC on-demand services outside the UK, so I’ve uploaded the first two episodes to Soundcloud in case they’re of interest.
Here are links.
Part one: http://snd.sc/1ghztJ2
Part two: http://snd.sc/1buJvk3
I’ll try to get the third part up when it’s broadcast.
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@ Rick
Awesome! Thanks!
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You’re welcome.
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@B. R.
No Problem!
I’m surprised at the similarities between tap dancing Brazilian folk dancing, but I suppose I shouldn’t be. Just to clarify things: there is nothing wrong with tap dancing in and of itself, but you can’t understand Afro Americans without understanding Euro Americans. Whites in the late 19th and early 20th century enjoyed minstrel shows which often featured infantilized, tap dancing, Black caricatures. As such, a lot of the Afro American intelligentsia didn’t want to be associated with tap dance, however great its artistic worth. It’s for much the same reason that some people don’t want to be associated with Hip Hop and the intertwined Black Hyper Sexual and Brute stereotypes. Both Minstrel shows and Hip Hop offer a Theme Park version of Black culture that is made palpable to the White public who are, for the most part, willfully ignorant of the mechanisms of White Supremacy and the true depths of who we are.
So, there is this recurring cycle in the Afro-American arts of creation, mockery, maturation, appropriation, abandonment, and recycling. The cycle is spurred on by a refusal to be confined to the boundaries and unthinking assumptions that White Americans place us in.
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Well, D, its the white people who should be criticised , not the art of tap dancing and the artists
I need to verify, but I dont think tap dancing was initialy in minstrel shows, it would be more buck dancing a predesesor of tap dancing and the “cake walk”, which became an international dance craze , and , the whites didnt know it but the slaves (it was invented in slave times, but hit international popularity in the 1890’s) that the slaves were mocking the owners
I have to disagree about hip hop, it entered the world as a beat and a marvelous dance, the music industry manipulated it into your description, break dance and the beats of hip hop should have major respect, and it is also a world wide dance craze…
why crucify tap because of minstrel shows ( I disagree that was the real reason tap was regulated to shucking and jiving, minstrel shows had been gone a while when that agenda hit,,,it was mostly because of a weekly tv show called “The Lawrence Welk show” who had a very stiff guy trying to keep his job, who would come tapping) or hip hop dance and beats because of a media manipulation?
Why is the art, culture and the artists (the breakdancers in hip hop) the one to get crucified
Yes, the reaccurring cycles, that the black artists had nothing to do with…they were great artists innovating Afro diasporic cultures…we are supposed to focus on the white racism and celibrate the artists, and the culture..
gosh, the culture and art are the treasures, they hold secrets to pride self esteem, histories of the past
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“had nothing to do with” meaning the artists had nothing to do with the demeaning parts, from the music business and the cyclles that came with the mockery…we should condemn the mockerers, and try to rescue the memory of wonderful talented people who are getting the shaft…they got it back then too, which tap dancers really made the most money?The black dancers or white dancers…and then we double shafted them with an agenda calling them shucking and jiving
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When I see that tap clip I brought in, I am so humbled by their talent and abilities..its funny I have a deep pride about them…I mean that may not be the right word, but I am white and i feel a pride in them and how lucky I am to understand their talent..maybe im proud they gave us so much
I cant tell you how much I was blown away by seeing the coco group and their dancers who are parralel to tap…as a person who loves tap ( I even do tap exercises to help my feet on the pedals)…I actualy made contact with them , have co produced their second CD, and was invited in august to a coco festival in their home in Arcoverde. The male dancer is the son of the singer, who i talk to about co ordinating business when I do things with them…he is new, I hadnt seen him dance before, when I found out he was learning drums and had a kit but some peices missing, I went and paid for the rest of his drum kit and sent it up to him…to be tapping like that with his feet and he is trying to play drums, I just had to buy the rest of his kit…he deserves it
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@B. R.
Very true, but we can’t help ourselves. I just realized that this is the curse of Double Consciousness.
“It is a peculiar sensation, this double-consciousness, this sense of always looking at one’s self through the eyes of others, of measuring one’s soul by the tape of a world that looks on in amused contempt and pity.” – Du Bois
We have internalized what some call “The White Gaze”. We’re never satisfied with who we are so we reinvent ourselves every generation or two. So, the cycle will go on until White Supremacy is dead.
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@ rick
Thanks for posting the radio interviews very eye opening. the music sounds so beautiful I wish I could bring that music to the future lol.
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Nothing as eye-catching as a nice butt in a neon yellow cat suit!(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6gAME56uXWo)
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Sure , D, and reinventing, innovating and improvising have always been high level charactoristics of the Afro diasporic cultues, the world is blessed to have those cultures existing and bringing there deep knowledge
yeah, Buddhhu, great info…Armstrong got banned from the Miami hotel, and was the vocal influence for Crosby, Sinatra , and most jazz singers after him
is there any business besides the police department that is a window into the nasty white racist methods and disrespect to black Americans? the same game goes down in Brazil, too…maybe worse
Quite a few of the black people who did travel in the south, were the jazz bands…they knew about the discrimination in hotels and eating places as much as anyone
Archie Schepp heh heh
just to add to the jazz story, Jim Crow threw blues musicians together with classicly trained musicians that contributed to the richness of blues and sophisticated harmony , in New Orleans
The first jazz record was recorded by white musicians , and they said black people didnt have anything to do with jazz
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@ mstoogood4yall
That’s what I call quality programming. Well made, absorbing and very informative. Mr Hall has done a great job. I can’t wait for part three.
Elvis really fcked up ‘Hound Dog’, didn’t he? Big Mama’s version beats the living crap out of his. I’d never heard that before.
I was also impressed by the Langston Hughes poem. I looked up the whole piece.
White people stole plenty of the music, but we were certainly slow enough to pay fairly for it, and to give appropriate credit to the originators. James Brown was one of the first guys to really take control. He must have been a workaholic.
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So, just heard a black American say that racism is part of American culture but was not sure if it should be changed because every culture has some form of a caste system. Can someone help me with understanding what that means? I would imagine that this person would want it changed and not want to excuse it.
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@ rick
Such a beautiful poem Langston Hughes summed it up nicely. The hound dog by big mama sounds wonderful i’d never really heard it but I did find it odd when I heard elvis’s version that he was saying hound dog and I was thinking hmm isn’t that how a woman would describe an unfaithful or no good guy, it is weird a man is singing it. Now I know why. I didn’t know all that about james brown but that is really inspiring. It does suk that the real artists didn’t get the real credit they deserved but the copy cats got all the credit. It kinda reminds me of how younger kids think certain songs these “artists” nowadays use are theirs when really it was an older real artist that did the song and did it way better.
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@ Anne
that is interesting, well a caste system is defined as a division of society based on differences of wealth, inherited rank or privilege, profession, occupation, or race.
my take on it is yes a lot of cultures do have a caste system but that does not excuse it or mean we can’t fight against it and should accept it. ppl can change their wealth to get to a higher rank, ppl can change professions to get to a higher rank but u can’t change race to get to a higher rank, even if u become a wealthy u are still lower rank race wise. and imo that trumps everything at least here anyway, as when we fill out forms there are more forms asking what race u are than there are ones asking what ur income is and who ur relatives are.
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and when counting privileges we are low on the rank as well, inherited rank we are low again as wealth and inherited rank are sometimes connected because they are passed down by parents.
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Mstoogood,
Yes, that is what I am confused about. Why would a black American want to excuse something so wrong?
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i had some type of thought today but i forgot it excepting the government is sort of getting the credit limit increase?
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@ Legion
If someone looks good, and it’s not intrusive to do it, then what’s wrong with letting them know they look nice and then leaving them be?!
Many of those reactions to that lady were uncalled-for. But it tells you a lot, doesn’t it…
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@ Anne
I can’t speak for that person’s reason for saying that but I think they either meant everybody else has issues so I might as well get over it and accept it as normal trying to downplay it, or they are confused and think racism is the same as the other things that make up the caste system. I can’t speak for all black americans but we do have some that try not to look at racism and the history and don’t like to get to the nitty gritty and see that yes racism is part of the caste system but it is the worst thing imo than any other thing that the caste system is made of. And some don’t like to question it because they are ashamed and think it shows they are inferior when truthfully our circumstances may be inferior but we as a people are not inferior.Like I said pretty much every other thing that is in the caste system can be changed but race cannot, so there is no amount of marrying up or changing careers or acquiring wealth to get out of it if u are black. Henry Louis gates is a perfect example of this he has wealth, a great profession, but he was still arrested by a cop which would be lower ranking than him as cops don’t have wealth, don’t have a prestigious occupation, and may not have inherited rank, but they do still have white privilege which is the one thing Henry Louis gates didn’t have.
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@ Legion
Brothawolf did a post on that awhile back. It was quite interesting, but I thought she was just so beautiful and I admired her confidence in wearing that catsuit.
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“Why would a black American want to excuse something so wrong [wrt caste systems]?”
__ __ __
It sounds like the person feels that – based on their pervasiveness – societal caste systems are natural occurences, and, if that is the case, it’s probably best not to fool with ‘nature’.
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@Legion
Yea….it was a link, but I am not really sure what he could say to elaborate on what could be seen.
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I had an interesting conversation with my grandmother the other day. My cousin finally revealed her potential husband. So I ask if he was black…..my grandmother remarks “no, he is brown.” I look at her confused and I ask again and she says…”he is brown.” So I curiously ask….”grandma what color am I.” She gives me this odd look and says “Brown.”
I died laughing.
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@ legion
thanks for giving me props, anyway the catsuit experiment was interesting, it looks like something ppl wear for Halloween all they need is some cat ears and whiskers lol. Her confidence, her hair, and her beauty were shinning brighter than that catsuit rofl. I would love to see a follow up experiment in different cities and her wearing different less revealing outfits to gauge ppls reaction.
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@ sharina
rofl, its interesting how some ppl’s views on what skin tone is black and what is not. I guess some ppl think if u aren’t blue black u aren’t black but brown and dark brown, interesting.
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@ mstoogood4yall
Even though I laughed, I was actually shocked when she said it.
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Mstoogood4yall: Like the avatar.
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Thanks ms mary, I chose this one cuz it had almost everything I wanted in an avatar beautiful black woman check, lion check, beautiful sun check, lol. It is kinda hard finding some nice pics like this of an animated black female.
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@ sharina
old ppl say some of the funniest things without even trying. or they say some of the most ignorant things and I sometimes wonder how can somebody that old say something that ignorant. Either way old ppl don’t give a shish anymore and say whatever, I respect that…. sometimes lol.
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Why yellow? I’m sure for shock value right?Re: the catsuit, I admire her courage. There is no way I would do that. It almost reminds me of that show, What Would You Do- where they come up with controversial scenarios and have candid cameras around to view the bystanders reaction.
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@mstoogood4yall
LOL. I have actually been playing a close attention to some of what my older relatives say and you are right. They don’t care.
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Lol
Pastor Marvin Winans Refuses To Bless Children Of Unwed Mothers In Front Of Congregation
http://www.clutchmagonline.com/2013/10/pastor-marvin-winans-refuses-bless-children-unwed-mothers-front-congregation/
And y’all having a sissy fit in the comment section.
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recent comments is blank now
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I thought it was just me. V8
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Hey V8, have plans for Halloween?
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@sondis
Spot the BS.
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VW-0xJb_FM4&sns=tw)
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Abagond, will you do a post on Tituba, who was accused of being a witch in the Salem witch trials in Salem Massachusetts.
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And a post on Marie Laveau, the famous voodoo queen would be fun.
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Question:
HELP
BLACK WOMEN AND MEN:
I need your help.
I have a few white men around me who want all black women to be alone and shunned, how can I deal with this? I need my job but am sick of the attitudes from them that not only should we be single but feel like crap?
How can I get them to stop the bull. Even as most black women are coupled up in other teams around us, they are doing this. They don’t want me to be able to normally talk to black co-workers, heck I’m not even supposed to be friendly with the Asian ones.
These are the same ones whom act homosexual with black men, can I get them to stop with putting it on me that I should feel like crap, that black women are all single and that the black male members should shun the black female ones?
I need advice!
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@Alicia
I will piggyback off of @Sondis.
You are going to HAVE TO GET LOGICAL.
Get out of your emotional side, and set up a gameplan.
What do you want, what is your endgame?
Do you want a peaceful work environment?
Do you want a lawsuit settlement?
What do you want?
———————–
Not ONLY do you take notes as Sondis pointed out. You can bring a Few HIDDEN CAMS to work & strategically place them in area where you want to illustrate the hostile work environment.
I say, take copious notes, & sue these cats to KINGDOM COME.
But being emotional & grinning & beating will not solve anything.
Be strategic. Make every move count!
Good Day.
Give us updates at your earliest convenience.
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ok Thanks Adonis, you are right. I guess you and him are both right. Racism is racism. Whatever little things they insist on doing is based on the fact that they have race issues. It’s black women are lonely today but tomorrow could be something different but based on their own racial issues. I guess I just need to bear it and realize they are ignorant, it’s a job and at the end of the day their ignorant desires and beliefs need not affect me.
I also agree with the rest of what both of you said!
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Adonis:
“Spot the BS.”
lmao! leave it up to the white media to find the most, loudest black woman with count em, six kids! Nobody is going to tell me, they didn’t scout for this particular type of black women to stick a mic in her face and allow her to make a complete fool of herself.
My question would have been to this white man, sticking a mic in my face to ask me how many children i have, “what’s the relevants of that question in regard to the situation? That’s none of your concern!
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im glad you ditched that like thing on the android or idk what that was but it was annoying
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@Adonis
I’m putting this in the open thread, because it is completely veering off of interracial relationships.
Throughout this entire correspondents, though your belittlement of the history, the political, social, and economic hardships, and the struggles of BW and BM, (the Black community in general), and any ambivalence that some BM coming to terms with their history and present, feel towards the thought of BW with White men, in comparison to your willingness to recognize the social constructs that plague BM/WW relationships, has been disturbing, horrifying and nauseating; it has brought me to a new found sense of understanding and closure in regards to the section (which is hopefully a minority), of the Black community, that has become so self destructive, so filled with vitriol, and hatred towards its very own people group, that it is imperative that you marry out, to avoid the risk of being misidentified as a “brotha” by those who assume you are, due to having similar physical characteristics; or handing down your identity crises, social schizophrenia, and divisiveness, to the next generation. You say taking on White supremacist systems are too much work, so instead you internalize your own frustrations and inner conflicts to aim them at your own people, and their domestic misfortunes, because they’re easy targets, to feel some semblance of power.
Every once in a while, some random non Black racist bigot, pops up to regurgitate all over Abagond’s blog, but I’m sure you ignore such instances; you seem to preserve you venom for your own people. You also vindicate the hardships of relationships between BM/Non BW, by voicing your understanding of the social constructs that create added pressure for such unions. However, when it comes to your own people group, you continually title social constructs mentioned, as “playing the victim.” As Frantz Fanon said, you’re “Black skin White mask.” I now understand the importance of individuals like yourself breeding out your own Blackness, as your mind is so toxic, it’s for the best. So many years after the civil rights movement, and the combustion of the nation of Islam and Malcolm X, and all the internal fighting that brought about the demise of its most powerful time, you are the segment in the community that won’t die out. You are so deeply embedded with racism towards your own people, that, through your own unwillingness, you’re irredeemable.
Men like my father fought and protested for you, and were willing to give their lives. You’re descended from a long line of BM who were dismembered, sexually exploited, dehumanized; marched, bled, and died for their sons, their wives, their daughters, and for you, just so that you can sit there and laugh at the thought of me, a Black woman, being so inhumane, that I am unrapable.
When I was a kid, at my grandmother’s home, I remember listening, rapping, and dancing along to a Hip hop CD I had. My grandmother casually walked into the room, and as “the n word” littered the verse, as I rapped along to it, my eyes, which had already landed on hers, registered the sudden deep pain and anguish across her face. Her eyes welled up with tears, she swallowed deeply, and quickly drew a smile, so as not to condemn me with her hurt; I guess she figured I was too young to understand. She asked me if I was hungry; she walked into the kitchen to prepare the food, she was completely silent. Though she never said anything, I could tell that her mind was far away, I’d never seen her like that before. I can only imagine the 100 and 1 memories that scattered through her mind.
Adonis, there are some things you are far too young to understand.
First of all, this post was not directed at you, at all. But since you seem to operate by being combative for the sake of being combative, you chose to. I’ve noticed, you have a habit of arguing my points by arguing with points I never typed. This is all out of a desire just to actually argue, just to be combative. To be the angry, mad BW stereotype you project onto all BW but actually personify. Despite this, I will try to make sense of what you have typed.
Adonis
@EbonyMonroe
She responded to Alicia
Alicia said
“I will also say that I know black people, including black men (whom are expected to hold down a family) have much less chances for advancement in Britian, compared to the US which mt contribute to certain things I noticed while there.”
“@EbonyMonroe,
Most black men are not making any complaints about Halle Berry or the other celebs whom are dating IR. I have dated IR and in heavily black areas, black men never cared.”
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I never implied that most BM have complaints about BW marrying out. I implied that the idea that it is not something that would make BM feels uncomfortable if BW married out to the point where there were not enough BW for BM should they prefer to settle down with BW, the way many BW often prefer BM, but that option was affected, I don’t believe no BM would have a problem with it. And I was simply stated that I have encountered BM feeling uncomfortable with seeing BW with non BM. I remember when a picture of Bria Miles with her White boyfriend was posted on here, the reaction from a few brothas was “noooooooo, not Bria.” It is unrealistic for you to assume that your experiences can account for how every or any BM would feel if BW married out in large proportions, just going by the BM in your limited surroundings.
Adonis said
Bria Myles is attractive. So is Kim Kardashian. Brothas will holla about that, and then go about their day.
Sistas get stupid when BM partake in IR dating, but leave the BW who do it alone.
Ebonymonroe says
Of course BM who see, what would be considered, an unattractive BW with a non BM, will not be as bothered. In the same way that WM who see the stereotype of the fat WW with the BM, will not be bothered. Still, BM don’t say “What is Kim Kardashian doing with that Black man?” or “White man?” but I have heard BM say, “what is Bria Myles doing with that White guy.” If the race were not a factor, it would not be mentioned. Please try to apply logic and a contextual frame to wording, it is bothersome having to point out such simple things.
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Alicia said
“@Peanut, EbonyMonroe,
Do you fully understand what Black men face under White supremacy?
Do you?”
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What have I said about BM? At what point have I alluded to BM having it easy? I’m getting a serious Shahrazad Ali vibe from you, at this point. Every time a BW speaks on anything negative she has experienced from a BM, you jump in and say BW do it, too. Every time a BM has said something extremely disrespectful and offensive about BW on this thread, you have overlooked it to stay in alignment with the BM’s plight.
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Adonis said
A lot of BW issues are not SYSTEMATIC, especially when dealing with BM.
Outside of your family, you choose the kind of BM to include in your lives.
Ebonymonroe says
If pervasive poverty, which leads to the breakdown of the family structure, neighborhoods with a lack of access to good education, a lack of job opportunities, policing, and the general constructs of such environments, are symptoms of a systematic form of oppression, then yes, they certainly are SYSTEMATIC. Since the walk of life of a BW is inextricably linked with her fellow BM, she is still directly affected by the oppression of her father, husband, or her brother. So, yes, it is systematic. If young BW are filling jail cells 2 or 3 times to rate of BM in America, and serving considerably greater amounts of time for nonviolent crimes, in comparison to non BW, just like BM, then, yes, it is SYSTEMATIC. Please engage with the points properly, if you’ve no basic understanding of the power of economic disadvantage, sociology 101, the Black experience, or the many generational conflicts that stem from the residues of Black oppression, please just skip it, because there is no point in talking about something you do not understand. It’s akin to gibberish.
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I have always been a supporter of BM, for the last few weeks I have been so proud of Obama for taking steps to adjust the “War against drugs” that has resulted in millions of African American men serving ridiculous amounts of time in the modern slave trade known as the prison industrial complex, used as cheap labor for multimillion dollar corporations.
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Adonis said
Cool Beans
Ebonymonroe says
So what is this, Adonis? What is this? When BW say they care for BM, you mock it, you make underhanded comments about it, and then turn around and complain when you don’t see BW showing their concern for BM? Pick which one you want and we will accommodate you.
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I am aware that BM outnumber WM in college attendance, but it is not acknowledged.
Raw numbers or percentages
I am aware that, statistically speaking, BM spend more time with their children than any other group of men, though they are stereotyped as absentee fathers.
Adonis said
Glad you know
Ebonymonroe says
What is this? Sarcasm?
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I am aware of the fact that BM spend an incredible larger amount of time in jail for non violent crimes in comparison to White male pedophiles and murderers.
Adonis said
I believe you, but where is the link?
Ebonymonroe says
Check the US Census
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I am aware of the race and wage gap that affects BM. I am aware of the judicial, occupational, domestic, and social issues that BM are up against. And I am very proud of them.
Adonis said
Cool beans
Ebonymonroe says
More sarcasm? Wow! Dude, this is why more and more BW just don’t care anymore. Just make sure you don’t complain about it, because it is clearly what you want. Hopefully BW are not encountering too many BM like you, and becoming apathetic towards real BM who actually appreciate our very present love and loyalty, and our historical support.
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The thing that irritates many BW is how individuals like yourself seem to allude to the idea that BM have it harder than BW do.
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Adonis said
More true than it is not. Because black women don’t acknowledge the assistance they get to succeed in America. They love to focus on the plight.
Ebonymonroe says
This is like when racist White people throw affirmative action in the faces of BM and BW to discredit their credibility and any difficulties they encounter as minorities. It’s like that scene in “Borat,” when those drunken Southern White guys complained that minorities have all the power. There you go with your Black skin White mask again. BM could receive help from the government if they were single fathers, but BW tend to be the ones who raise the children at home, in the Black community. It is a disadvantage that you use as some kind of perverse one upmanship. As I said, Black skin White mask. So colonialized it exceeds the definition it was created to encompass.
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*The number 1 killer of BW in the US and the UK is domestic violence
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Adonis said
You mean the men that they choose to sleep with. Lol
Ebonymonroe says
Another flash of your White mask. So I guess Trayvon got it because he shouldn’t have been wearing a hoodie, he shouldn’t have been walking late at night? Once again, you’re speaking on things that you have no understanding of. Abusers tend to groom their victims for long periods of time, while taking pains, to gain the favor of their circle of friends and family members, until the victim is isolated. Domestic abuse hardly ever begins early on in a relationship. Victims are often very young, vulnerable, and impressionable women and men. It begins with getting into the individual’s head; then controlling behavior begins; rough play-fighting and handling, verbal abuse and put downs to bring down the self esteem, and then comes the hitting; after which follows grand apologies. By the time the physical abuse begins, there has usually already been a great deal of psychological and emotional abuse, or complications that make it difficult to just get up and go; such as children; as many abusers wait for years, coddling their partner, before they begin the abuse. Most victims are frightened of speaking out about it, due to fear of being ostracized; or repercussions. And your attitude and opinion that BW deserve to be beaten to death is the reason why. Many victims are unsure where to go for help. One reason that has been attributed to why BW don’t ask for help is that calling the police is frowned upon in the Black community.
http://www.dallasnews.com/news/crime/headlines/20130921-black-women-at-greater-risk-of-becoming-victims-of-homicidal-domestic-violence.ece?nclick_check=1
Take the time to think of the social constructs of poverty and disadvantage that I have already mentioned ad nauseam, before you cut it down to the stereotype of BW chasing after “no good” men. The highest incidence of domestic violence are always linked to a lack of job opportunities, which is something the Black community contends with, being at the bottom of the totem pole. This creates intense home environments.
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*60% of BW in the UK have been raped or sexually assaulted by age 16-18
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Adonis said
This is why you need to pick HUSBAND (regardless of race) that will stick with you & protect your home, and being so loose with your dating practices.
Ebonymonroe says
First of all, I refuse to come at you from the angle you’re presenting, where all BW are loose with their dating practices, because you don’t know that, because you don’t know every BW. And as I’ve said, I have heard BM use the opposite excuse for why they prefer non BW, because BW are conservative, grow up in the church, and take a long time to give it up. These are obviously the BW in your circle of family and friends. If you’re such a big strong man, fix it! And even if we ran with the stereotype you’re presenting, both BW and BM are creating these babies, don’t tell me all BW are rushing to one small demographic of BM and getting pregnant, you do not have the credible statistics to back that up. A White person could call me a n**ger all they want, but I can’t do anything about that, what can I debate with that. Just like you’re indirectly implying that all, or most, BW are the stereotypical Black jezebels. BM AND BW, are getting pregnant, some of it is out of irresponsible stupidity and some of it is out of ignorance, a lack of guidance, peer pressure, communally acceptable sexual behaviors, and a lack of good sex education. As I have said, girls who grow up without a father are more likely to become teenage mothers due to the act of searching for a father figure. That is, having romantic relationships of an adult relationship, they’re too young to have. This also affects BM, who are more likely to engage in sexual activity and promiscuous behaviors that aren’t age appropriate, due to not having a father figure at home, and a mom that is probably working two or three jobs to keep a roof over their heads and is never home. (At least that is what I saw in my neighborhood.) You could try to flip it on BW, but you can’t do that without it being open to being flipped on BM not sticking around. These are two extremes from the BM who hates BW and preaches a monolithic “evil BW narrative,” the latter is the extreme of the BW who hates BM and preaches a monolithic “evil BM narrative.” They are simple boxes that keep everything in their Black and White sections, but there are too many gray areas for it to be true. You could say all BW are the Black jezebel, or the extreme BW position could flip it and say all BM are oversexed animals, and there are no good ones that BW can find. She could say our culture encourages misogyny in our music, glorifies pimping and the mistreatment and sexual exploitation of BW that has been handed down from colonialism, where the BW’s body was a commercial commodity. Since BM are statistically unlikely to pop the question until middle age, due to economics, BW could say if they waited, there would be no more Black children, as women would be passed childbearing age. But this is the thing, you’re coming with stereotypes, and the entire situation is far more complex than you are making it. It’s like I’m talking advanced physics and your still playing with salt being dissolvable. This may be another case where I’ve just got to say, Adonis, you’re too young to understand.
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* You’ve heard of Trayvon Martin, and you saw BW come out in droves, but have you heard of Rekia Boyd, or Aiyana Jones, or Keyarika Diggles.
Adonis said
BM’s mortality is way more affected by white supremacy than BW
Ebonymonroe says
So what is your point? The deaths of these girls and young women through police brutality down matter, at all? Basically, it is my understanding that your position is, BW don’t matter, BM do. Please take note as I continue to remain very even keeled in how I look at things in regards to problems relating to the Black community. I acknowledge the problems as partly due to victimization and partly self inflicted for both genders. You do the opposite, you pain BM as the victims and BW as victimizers and masters of their own disadvantages, yet you will go on to accuse me of doing what you do throughout, though I am the only one out of the two of us who is even keeled and chooses not to demonize BM or BW.
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* BW don’t claim the most government assistance in the US, nor do they benefit the most from Affirmative action, WW do. But BW are demonized as welfare queens.
Adonis said
True. And white media demonizes BW. Black men do not own any media outlets.
Ebonymonroe
You get to speak out when BM demonize BW in Hip hop, you get to speak out when numerous youtubers spew hatred towards BW&G, but you don’t. I’d actually take you for a Tommy Sotomayor, Tariq Nasheed type, you support these men who have a platform and often use it to praise WW while demonizing their own. And yet as the heads of all Black civil rights organizations, the biggest breadwinners of Black owned businesses, religious institutions, and all institutional power confined to the Black community (in case you say you have no institutional power), you stay regurgitating the same propaganda, as the gospel truth, adding to the mainstream demonizations of Black women from a White supremacist system, so what’s the difference between you and this media you speak of? Oh yeah, that’s right, nada? You just happen to do it for free.
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*BW outnumber everyone in college attendance, but they still face both the race and wage gap. BM business owners make more money than BW business owners.
Adonis said
This goes back to choices. What kind of degrees BW are getting.
Chances are, these degree are not valuable to society.
Also, I will concede that, you still have to “bring it” talent wise as a black woman to succeed. But go where the real money.
Stop doing the bare minimum, and expect a six figure salary.
If BM are out doing BW in business, it tells me BM are more thorough in BUSINESS than BW.
If you have ANY other theories that differ, please share.
Ebonymonroe says
This is so ignorant, that I could bring up the fact that BW lawyers, doctors, surgeons, still do not get paid as much as their male counterparts. The difference is obviously by examining BM and BW in the same positions. But since it is so stupid, I’m forced to give an ignorant answer just to highlight how stupid it is…
BM are not getting paid as much as WM because they’re not getting the right degrees, and they give poorer job performance.
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* Black women are filling up jails in the US, like 2 or 3 times the rate of BM, but I bet you didn’t know that.
Adonis said
Are black women being TARGETED or are they committing real crimes?
I think it could be both, but I will hold my opinion until more info comes out
Ebonymonroe says
Once again, it is so ignorant, I’m forced to give a stupid answer. BM are committing the most crimes just as BW are, even though census says otherwise. Impoverished BM who take to selling weed for a living deserve to be behind bars for a decade, even though WM murderers and pedophiles serve far less time for extreme crimes.
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* Black women are statistically the least likely to give up their children to the state, but even though it is a disadvantage being a single parent, they are blamed for their own oppressions because they are said to have all the power as the only adults in their households. BW are blamed for their own oppressions just as much, if not more so, than BM are. The only difference, is that the oppressions BW faced are pushed out to make room for a monolithic narrative of BM being the face of Black disadvantage.
Adonis said
If you are having kids with subpar men, before your finances are handled, why you do expect to be seen positively for keeping or abandoning your children.
YOU DIDN’T EVEN TAKE THE TIME TO PLAN FOR THEM!!!
Nor you took the time to find a capable HUSBAND to help you RAISE THEM.
That is why society is upset with you. Legit.
I acknowledge that their is a racial element to this, but address those two points I put in bold letters
Ebonymonroe says
Once again, stupid answer that forces me to give a stupid answer to highlight the ignorance. This is why you’re known as deadbeat dads, rapists, animals, and why WM fought hard to keep you away from their daughters, because you’re not husband material. You’re even the no.1 cause of death for non BW married to you. This is why society targets you and locks you up in a cage, because you’re dangerous to society.
(Don’t worry brothas, I’m not actually the BW version of Adonis, I don’t actually feel this way.)
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We worship cats like Nathan Mccall who gang r@ped countless young Black girls in his book “Makes me wanna holler,” he hasn’t served one day for it, but since he talks about White supremacy, and is a BM we overlook, in favor of his plight. This attitude leads to situations like what happened with the Dunbar village gang r@pe case, which the Florida police department even admitted, was one of the worst crimes they had ever come across, it was horrific. But when the NAACP and Al Sharpton were contacted, they said they weren’t interested, until the last minute when the sentences were handed down and they came out the woodwork to defend the perpetrators, and not the mother and her child.
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Adonis said
Again, rape is not systematic. There is no system for black men to rape anybody with impunity.
Ebonymonroe
First of all kid, this is not about some innate flaw in BM, so let’s not even go there. Secondly, YES, FOR CRYING OUT LOUD, THE SOCIAL CONSTRUCT IS WHAT LEADS TO THIS! IT IS SYSTEMATIC! Oh God help me!
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Adonis said
Why did Al Sharpton & the NAACP did what they did, I have no idea, I have to research.
Ebonymonroe says
WELL, HERE IT IS!!!
Gang Rape In Dunbar Village In West Palm Beach, Florida
On the 18th of June in 2007, at 9 in the evening, a 35-year-old woman came home to her apartment in the Dunbar Village housing project in West Palm Beach, Florida. She had just finished up a long day of delivering telephone books and she was tired.
She had immigrated to the United States in 2000 from Haiti with her then five-year-old son, hoping for a better life.
Before she went upstairs to bed, she and her son had started to make something downstairs in the kitchen for dinner when there was a knock at the door.
A young black male was at the door, his hair in braids. The teenager told her that her truck had a few flat tires and that she should come and look at them.
Following the apparent “good samaritan” outside, she hadn’t taken more than a few steps when three teenagers – all wearing masks and all carrying guns – pointed the weapons at her and told her to get back into her apartment.
They hit her, knocking her to the floor. They pushed her son down to the floor as well.
They demanded money, which she didn’t have.
Incensed at the lack of easy money in the apartment, the four boys beat the woman and her son, stripped the woman of her clothing, took her to the bedroom and raped her over and over, with each boy taking his turn.
Her son was held at gunpoint, forced to watch.
As they raped and sodomized her, she cried out in pain and fear.
Nobody came to help, not then, not when she heard her son cry out when they stripped him naked as well, sporadically breaking lightbulbs and plates on his head.
Up to five other teenagers did arrive, but they had come to join in on the raping and cruelty.
These other teenagers also raped and sodomized the woman, recording it all for posterity on a cell phone.
Eventually, after everyone had their turn with the woman in her upstairs bedroom, they brought her son upstairs at gunpoint. Holding a gun to the 12-year-old’s head, the gang forced his mother to perform oral sex on him.
It is unclear as to whether or not mother and son were forced to have sex with each other.
When everyone had finished abusing the woman sexually, they forced her into the bathtub, which they filled with vinegar and water. They poured common household cleaning products over her, such as hydrogen peroxide, rubbing alcohol, nail polish remover and ammonia-based cleaning solution.
Some ammonia was also thrown into her son’s eyes.
They forced a bar of soap into her girl thingy, hoping to remove physical evidence.
While they were doing this, the gang also threw ammonia into her son’s eyes.
After the group was convinced that they had disposed of the evidence, someone suggested setting the mother and her son on fire. After searching for – but not finding – a lighter, the group left, warning the pair that if they got out of the tub, they’d be killed.
30 minutes later, while the mother and her son were still in the tub, crying in pain, one of the teenagers returned to sexually assault the woman one more time. He wrote a man’s name and 6-CO – a different man and a different gang than the one that had gang-raped this family – on a piece of paper, telling her that he could be found on Sixth street.
As he left, he took the Playstation 2 with him.
The woman and her son stayed in the apartment for two hours after the attack. Nobody came to investigate the screams, nobody called the police for help.
Because their assailants had stolen their cell phone, their home phone and their fax machine, they were unable to call for assistance themselves.
It was a long walk to the Good Samaritan Medical Center, but they walked the mile together, two hours after the attack ended.
They were badly injured. The 12-year-old had to be immobilized for more than two days on his hospital bed, with bandages covering both eyes and a two-inch gash on the top of his skull.
14-year-old Avion Lawson was the first to be arrested. He confessed after investigators let him know that his DNA had been found in a condom recovered at the apartment. While being driven to the Juvenile Assessment Center, Avion called some friends and laughingly told them what was going on.
Al Sharpton & The NAACP Defend The Rapists
The Dunbar Village rape case isn’t a national fraud like Pigford. It’s a crime case but the details are so horrific that it’s the sort of case that often does make national news, especially when a national media magnet like Rev. Al Sharpton inserts himself into it. But it seems to have flown under the radar completely on a national level, getting mainly only local press followed then a flurry of activity by a group of largely black, female bloggers.
“This was a very horrific crime, even our investigators, who’ve been here 25 years, are visibly shaken,” said Ted White of the West Palm Beach Police Department.
Fast forward to today. It seems that the NAACP and Al Sharpton’s National Action Network (NAN) both refused to help this woman because it was ‘outside the scope of their mission’ … however, both groups found time to send lawyers down to Florida IN SUPPORT OF THE RAPISTS. The lawyers are claiming that it is ‘unfair’ to not offer bail to these four rapists.
As devastating as this story is, what the NAACP and Al Sharpton have done about it will simply take your breath away: not only did the NAACP ignore hundreds of requests to assist this woman because it was ‘outside the scope of their mission’, but they joined forces with Al Sharpton, and sent their lawyers to speak out IN SUPPORT OF THE RAPISTS.
You heard me right.
Even though there is conclusive DNA evidence and signed confessions, the NAACP and Al Sharpton are saying that it is ‘unfair’ to not offer bail to these four alleged rapists. They even had a press release about it.
And simple research confirms this – the local NAACP chapter and Al Sharpton came out in support of the rapists. Let’s be really clear on what ‘support’ means. Sharpton actually flew down to Florida to stand with the families of the confessed rapists.
Well, there’s that. He didn’t explicitly condone raping people, trying to set them on fire and taking their picture with your cell phone. Let’s give Rev. Sharpton credit for that. THAT might make news. He didn’t condone it.
But he DID take time out of his busy schedule to travel hundreds of miles away to a different state because he thought there was an ‘imbalance’ – but rather than standing with the relatives of the victims of the OTHER crime and calling for harsher bail, he stood with the families of the men who’d raped and tortured a black woman and her son…and called for them to get bail.
Are the two rape cases similar? Not according to Frank Cerabino wrote an Op-Ed for the Palm Beach Post, saying…
To call these cases identical, as Sharpton did, is to ignore far too much. And to make martyrs of the Dunbar teenagers only trivializes real cases of racial injustice and further denigrates two black victims of unspeakable crimes.
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I definitely feel BOTH BM and BW have it equally as hard, just harder and easier in different areas. I mean this with no disrespect, I really don’t, but if we’re going to get into some oppression Olympics, let’s just end this now. I cannot subscribe to that, at all.
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Adonis said
I believe that you are the first or second BW to outline the plight of BM.
Most of the time, we hear how BM are doing BW wrong, not right.
And we hardly ever hear BW acknowledging the HELP they get in their success.
Ebonymonroe says
What do you mean HELP? Oh right, having a small section of the single BM in the Black community (since BW do not claim HELP AS MUCH WW DO), from the government, because they are doing it on their own. First of all you are not a single mother, nor am I. But from looking on, women, married and single, say it’s one of the hardest jobs in the world, so I won’t accept this cushiony existence you’re imagining. Maybe your mom claimed welfare, but mine didn’t, she worked 3 jobs, saw herself through school, bought her own home, all while being a single parent. Secondly, since BW are being left to do child rearing on their own, who know? If the government didn’t step in to help, it would end up looking like some impoverished village in Africa, where children don’t have anything.
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@ Adonis
Ebonymonroe
@ Adonis
I’m sorry, but if you are alluding to 60% of Black girls being raped between the ages of 0-16 is down to choices. This conversation is over.
Adonis
@EbonyMonroe
Yes, choices that the mother made.
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Ebonymonroe says
As well as choices that the father didn’t make, as well as social constructs, as well as… Look, please seek professional help.
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@EbonyMonroe
@ Adonis
Adonis said
“No good” IMO means low value
Fat, old, high body count, OOW children, poor relationship intangibles, daddy issues.
I would LOVE (emphasis mine) to be able to say the majority of BW fall under this umbrella, but I can definitely say, at least 40% of BW this applies to.”
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Awww man! Lol. I actually spent a good 10-15 minutes answering your post, while this quote went completely over my head.
I bet it did, lol.
All this time, not noticing that as you say, YOU WOULD LOVE TO BE ABLE TO SAY BW FALL UNDER THIS UMBRELLA. LMBO. You’re one of those Black guys, who enjoys talking down about BW. You get off on it, as you said, you would LOVE to be able to say each and every BW is fat, old, has a high body count (a harlot), has OOW children, poor relationship intangibles, and has daddy issues. You would LOVE it, you’d enjoy being able to say that. And there I was actually entertaining your opinions and questions. Alright, you got me.
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I enjoy the demise of a lot of BW because a lot of you are not honest & a lot of you are CREATING YOUR OWN PROBLEMS, like OOW children & poor choices in MEN.
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Ebonymonroe says
This is another time when it is so ignorant that it requires a stupid response. Racist WP enjoy the demise of BM because they end up in jail for selling drugs, not out of the poverty that stems from condensed neighborhoods low on resources that WP created, instead BM sell drugs for fun so they deserve it. BM leave kids all around the place so when a WW once asked another WW what she was doing being with a BM, and did she want to be a single mother, I shouldn’t have been offended because she was right. BM are not the number 1 killers of eachother, their non Black spouses and their Black spouses because of systemic problems, everyone, BM, WW, and BW are all choosing to be with, or hand with the wrong BM.
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Another funny point is, you and Sondis have been arguing with Peanut this whole time about BM hatred towards BW, while you (Adonis) LOVE, ENJOY, AND GET OFF on throwing every possible problem/flaw/oppression BW deal with right in their faces.
The real victims that happen to be Black Women, are cool.
It is the impostors, black male haters, KneeGrow Bed Wench, I take glee in breaking down. Just to be clear
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Ebonymonroe says
No, your argument is null and void, because you speak of all BW as the architects of anything and everything they go through, even though you do not personally know half the BW in the US, so you’re basing everything off of prejudgements, which is prejudice, which come from hatred. You enjoy the suffering of your own people group.
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Which could only be done out of pure hatred. You couldn’t enjoy the misery, suffering and disadvantages of some, or an entire people group, if you didn’t hate them.
You ignore context when it is convenient @EbonyMonroe
I will have a black wife.
Well considering I LOVE & RESPECT wha Antoinette Tuff did to save those schoolchildren, herself & the gunman.
I love & would sleep with Oprah given half the chance.
I love the show Scandal & the women who are responsible for helping it get on television (Shonda Rhimes & Judy Smith)
Considering my favorite heartthrobs are DARKSKIN curvy American BW (Bria Myles, Briana Bette & Jenny Jahaan)
I appreciate any black woman who brings positive value to my life, or make it to the MSM for positive reasons.
So, yes, I am not denying that I take glee when black women fall due to their poor choices. I wear that badge proudly.
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Ebonymonroe says
You do not apply context so this is once again null and void, you base everything off of the gender of a race, not on a case by case basis. Please do not marry a Black woman. And, as I’ve said, tell Black women you meet, exactly what your views are, so they can bounce. If one were to stay, despite hearing your opinions on BW deserving to be beaten to death, or your opinions on rape, or the stereotypes of welfare mothers purposely becoming just that, or all single BM being welfare queens; if they stick around, well they do deserve what they get.
I’m rotf at my naivete. That was a good one. But, you had me there for a minute.
I am glad you enjoyed it.
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Adonis
@EbonyMonroe
Fat: Black men, Black women, Hispanic men, and Hispanic women, are leading in obesity in the UK. This is an economic problem.
Cats argue that sistas are fat, but both Black and Hispanic men and women dominate in obesity in the US due to a lack of healthy nutrition, due to the cost of an organic diet vs the low cost of GM foods.
When push comes to shove, Black men and women are fat in the US
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Adonis said
Agreed. But weight affects BW more than BM. Fat BM are not an issue with BW, but fat BW are problematic for BM.
Ebonymonroe says
Obesity will always be more prevalent in the female counterpart because women store more body fat. And, no, you have said yourself that BW only want good looking BM. Being fat is not defined as good looking. In the Caribbean community, a lot of men like fat women, I’m thick but because I have a small waist I would be considered to small for these men, so, no I would not say you know what every BM feels about fat women to be able to speak for all of them. Secondly, if you were a well adjusted human being, you could actually marry a BW, and bring home a paycheck to put organic food fruits, vegetables, non processed brown carbs, organic meats, free range poulty, and raw unprocessed dairy on the kitchen table. You could even by a water filter so your family isn’t consuming chlorine in their drinking water. You could stock a room in your home with free weight equipment, to build healthy muscle, which burns fat, and purchase DVD cardio and stretch exercise workouts, to exercise the heart, burn calories, and keep fit. You could both help towards pilates lessons, to stay flexible and to work on your posture, for the betterment of your bodies, and your digestive system. But, until you’re in a home helping, there’s not much you can say, cause as sistas used to sing in the 80’s, ain’t nothing going on but the rent.
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Adonis said
BW are more outraged with BM who date out.
Ebonymonroe says
I went over to Lipstickalley, which is regarded as one of the most ratchet US BW websites. They don’t seem to care, the BW I know don’t seem to care. Maybe you need to hang around some different BW. Or tell them to shut up, that you don’t want them; and I’m sure they’ll stop bothering you, out of dignity.
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Adonis said
Black men who are boring.
Black men who lack finances (when it is convenient)
Ebonymonre says
I make more money in my profession than my old man does at his, my sister makes more money than her husband because she has a degree and he’s blue collar, my eldest sister made more money than her husband for a long time. I’m not hurting for money, so as long as a dude has some direction on what he wants to do with his life, in terms of being a productive member of society, as a Black feminist/womanist, I believe in differences between men and women, and I believe in differences in the priorities of our needs. But, other than that, if a dude wanted to be a stay at home dad one day, if that makes him happy, since I don’t believe in roles, than I’m cool. Relationships are about compromise, and all people vary, once again, you cannot say what all BW want from BM, because you don’t know every BW in America. Secondly, WW are not checking for you, to marry you in droves until you hit the 100,000 mark, so it’s us who are here when you’re broke and ashy, nobody else. And the definition of boring is relative from person to person. My old man’s laid back, he’s the homebody, I like to go out, he’s outspoken, I tend to be quite. We’re both pretty boring when it comes to it, but we enjoy eachother.
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, but instead of focusing on the poverty aspect that drives such bad health, sistas are held up in front as the laughing stock?
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Adonis said
I feel the exact same way when BW choose to procreate with deadbeat of any race, and get mad when black men decide to take their talents to non-BW.
But it doesn’t fit your victim narrative.
Also, if you are poor & choose to have children with subpar men. That is a YOU problem.
That is INDEFENSIBLE.
Ebonymonroe says
Adonis, this is an example of how you counter my point by arguing something that has nothing to do with what I said. You’re creating diversions. What does OOW children have to do with being fat due to poverty? And, no, you paint BM as victims and use BW as the offenders to create a bad guy good guy narrative. I have never said BW don’t play a part in their own problems, I have also never said BM are not victimized. I am even keeled. I have repeatedly noted all aspects of the puzzle, bad choices BW AND BM, victimized and disadvantaged social constructs that create a cause and effect. Using the comparison of OOW single WW in the UK from the projects over here, since evidently, considering the fact that WW are in the same boat in the UK, since the UK runs of classism just as much as race; it is obviously not down to the innate nature of a race, but also social constructs. Please try to debate my points, if you’re going to try to debate them at all. It is impossible for me to debate a position I haven’t taken.
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Here’s one of many examples of White supremacism not being attacked with the black male voice, it seems Black women are attacked for this.
Adonis said
Ask the black men you are SLEEPING with @EbonyMonroe to defend you. Stop asking BM who you mostly ignore, to go to bat for you. You support the men that you like or the men that support your interests
Ebonymonroe says
I have not implied that I’m asking you to go defend BW. I have disagreed with you attacking BW. You’re doing the attacking right now, when it comes to BW, no one else is. And this whole thing of YOU support the men that you like. How do you know what I do? I’m sorry have we met? Are you in my actual life? Don’t try to tell me who I am because I’m a BW, you don’t even know me. And I don’t know what kind of example you have at home, as it pertain to BW, but, no disrespect, just because you may see your mom or your girlfriend sleeping with multiple men, does not mean BW like myself don’t know how to wait until marriage. Judge someone by the content of their character not their skin. Or have you never heard MLK say that? It seems you are alluding to BW not defending BM. Do you understand that BW fought, marched and died beside you? Do you understand that BW came out to protest the death of Trayvon Martin, who they had never met? You may not defend BW, but they certainly defend BM.
Madonna says she was disrespected by the black men she dated; blames white racism, sexism
Jet, Dec 18, 1995
Pop music superstar Madonna recently told Spin magazine, “I’ve never been treated more disrespectfully as a woman than by the Black men that I’ve dated.”
In Spin’s January 1996 issue, the seductive entertainer revealed she never expressed her controversial opinion before, but she thought the way Black men treated her was a reflection of their culture.
Madonna, who was once involved in a highly publicized relationship with colorful, controversial basketball star Dennis Rodman of the Chicago Bulls, went on to say, “I think Black men have just been s— on for so long, that, in a way, Black women are maybe more willing to accept rage from a Black man, because they see what’s happened to them.”
She said many Black men grow up without fathers or strong male figures, and they are used to seeing men disrespect women.
In the exclusive interview, Madonna noted she thought she appealed to Blacks because she’s a female, therefore in a minority group also. But she said she later realized that the Black community does not support her.
BW response 1= Yet… June 1987, Madonna was rushed to the Cedars Sinai hospital for an X-ray after her then-husband—Sean Penn hit her across the head with a baseball bat. At the time, they had been having a heart-to-heart talk about reconciling.
Madonna did not make an official complaint because Penn was about to serve a short jail term for attacking a film extra and violating the probation he’d been given for punching a fan. It was a decision she would come to regret. In the late afternoon of December 28, 1988, Penn scaled the wall surrounding the Malibu house and found Madonna alone in the master bedroom.
According to a report filed by Madonna with the Malibu sheriff’s office, the two began to quarrel. Penn told her he owned her “lock, stock and barrel”. When she told him she was leaving the house, he tried to bind her hands with an electric cord. Screaming and afraid, Madonna fled from the bedroom. Penn chased her into the living room, caught her and bound her to a chair with heavy twine. Then he threatened to shave her hair. Penn was “drinking liquor straight from the bottle” and the abuse went on for nine hours, during which he smacked and forced Madonna to perform a “degrading sex act” on him.
He went out to buy more alcohol, leaving Madonna bound and gagged. Some hours later, he returned and continued his attacks, then finally untied her. Madonna then fled the house and ran to her car. Penn ran after her and was banging on the windows of her Thunderbird while she spoke to police on her mobile phone. Fifteen minutes later, she staggered into the sheriff’s office. Sean Penn left her for dead! Yes, I know black men have their issues but how dare she fix her mouth to comment on them when she got her ass stomped on by a crazy ass white man…I never heard of Dennis Rodman leaving her “bound and gagged” her hypocrisy was alarming
BW response 2= Discuss what wig? Her being a hypocrite..then she’s going to make those comments? My thing is, Madonna is not black. She was not raised in a black household/neighborhood, she shouldn’t make comments about US because it’s like she’s talking out of her ass.
BW response 3= OH.MY.GOOD.HEAVENS!! !Sean Penn did all of that for 9 hours to her? I am just…and yet he is the “love” of her life? She may be a woman but since she’s white that privilege will always make her sound racist
BW response 4= Hypocritical ass. Smh.
BW response 5= she’s got a lotta NERVE coming for black men like that when a white man ALMOST killed her ass. I’m sure he’s not the first ain’t shit white man she’s been with.
BW response 6= Madonna talks and only idiots listen.
BW response 7= I’m not here for White People giving their opinions on Black culture and how we are or are not. And definitely not here for her saying dumb shit so Black woman accept Rage from Black men because apparently from her logic we are sympathizers of their “struggle”. Which again she knows nothing about. Stop it girl. And what was her reason for accepting Sean Penn’s Torture and Abuse??
BW response 8= girl yes, EXACTLY. I have yet to hear her or anyone say anything about Sean Penn. In fact, the media kisses his CRAZY ASS!
BW response 9= It probably hurt her when the black community didn’t support her. BISH BYE. We got Janet, why would we need your tired ass?
BW response 10= What I don’t like is how she felt like she had the right to speak on a whole race of men YET she was getting her ass handed to her by this white man. Why hasn’t she made comments on the white men she dealt with like Sean Penn and her father? Her relationships with them were shit yet she focuses on black men because they are an easy target. Like I said JUST because you su***d some black d!ck don’t make you an expert on the black experience.
BW response 11= Bull.
Our trees/roots, whatever are not crooked. If you’re gonna make that argument then you need to make it for the whole damn world because every ethnic group in American is getting divorced, having out of wedlock babies, etc. at high rates. It was a white man who beat the brakes off of her ass, not Black. Maybe a BM wasn’t about to take her vulgar shit or kiss her ass, hence her saying she’s been disrespected. Fuck that raggedy Heffa who stole her whole career from Black folks, even the outrageous attitude and especially the horrible dancing she could never emulate properly. If white men didn’t disrespect white women, pornography wouldn’t exist where you’re either a school girl which is pedophilia or you’re getting the shit choked out of you. She was out of pocket and really being passive aggressive because she’s a narcissist Bitch who hates that Black people as a whole have never cared about her untalented ass. She’s used to disrespect, this Bitch just wants to be worshipped and it ain’t happening by us. She doesn’t know a damn thing about what BW take off of our men. What did she take off of Sean Penn besides an ass whooping for years??
BW response 12= Madonna has a high body count .
BW response 13= You peep her hypocrisy too After he left her for dead, this bitch hops on an interview getting all emotionally proclaiming he is the love of her life. Best believe, if a black man did what Sean did to her, he would have been in jail PROBABLY TO THIS DAY. Sean Penn was worst than every black man she has dated, I could tell you that. If they were half as bad as she claims they are, we would’ve heard about it.
BW response 14= It’s obvious you’re not Black so maybe you should be commenting.. Doesn’t matter how many Black dicks you take or how many African kids you adopt like they are accessories, you are still a non Black person and you can still be racist, ie, have feelings of superiority. The slave master had Black children, he was still racist.
BW response 15= This. A WHITE MAN knocked her over the head with a baseball bat, but she’s spending time commenting on why black women accept this or that, bitch goodbye. Why doesn’t she comment about how, the media hate black woman beaters, but they glorify white woman beaters as if the incidents never happened?
BW response 16= Madonna has history of being a cultural appropriater so just off that everything she has to say about black people is null and void.
BW response 17= “I’ve never been treated more disrespectfully as a woman than by the Black men that I’ve dated.” I take issue with this statement. This is the same woman who stood on a street corner bucked naked and doing all sorts of things for that SEX book and is purported to have hunched and groped whomever she needed to to where she wanted to be. I think this is less about race and unfortunately more about the men treating her like the slore she was before she became an English crypt keeper who writes childrens books and gives life advice.
BW response 18= No, her views are invalid because she doesn’t know shit about OUR culture. why didn’t she make statements about white men and their habits?
BW response 19= I think it was she expected black men to kiss her ass and just be happy to be with a white girl and when those black men asserted themselves she felt more disrespected than by a white man because she was expecting black men to put her on a pedestal in spite of the fact she was so promiscuous. Just another example of white elitism Ya’ll see she kept coming back for more, though.
BW response 20= Dave Chappelle said it best…”you may not be a whore, but you have on a whore’s uniform.”
BW response 21= she is a flaming hypocrite
BW response 22= she is a flaming hypocrite
BW response 23= ya’ll have allowed black hollywood to brainwash ya’ll into believing that black men ain’t no good. Please stop putting the faith of all black men into people like Lil Wayne..
BW response 24= Madonna expected the litany of black men that ran through her to worship the ground she walked on but it didn’t happen. She’s nothing special.
I would like to hear her articulate how someone beating her ass is less disrespectful than being the loser in a hit it and quit it scenario.
Not to mention, look at the men she chose to date: notorious womanizers and narcissists.
Thanks but if I want a survey of black culture I’ll need something more substantive than memoirs of a white jump-off.
BW response 25= The hypocrisy is the fact that she felt she could open her mouth and speak about negative experiences when a white man left her for dead. I don’t recall her ever opening up about the sick shit Sean did to her. All she did was profess her everlasting love for him, which was quite vulnerable, it’s human and I’m not faulting her for that.
What I’m faulting her for is the fact that she can beat up a group of people that are always being beaten on because WHAT? They didn’t call her back the next day? they didn’t kiss her ass? but won’t call on the real monsters in her life.
Sean Penn and her father are not the only white men in her life that were bad. This I’m sure of.
And I’ll say this, she is comfortable speaking about black men and women because “we” are comfortable speaking like this in public. Bashing each other so much this white woman felt well versed enough to speak about us.
BW response 26= it’s hypocritical for her to paint black men like bad men when her experiences with white men have been proven to be HORRIBLE. She picked an easy target and went with it.
Why not say men in general? White people are obsessed with race. It’s sickening.
BW response 27= Madonna has been with a lot of black men. Maybe, she thought they would treat her special since she was white and got disappointed when she found out they wouldn’t.
BW response 28= Madonna was like a Kim. Additionally, she doesn’t choose the right men. MJ thought she was a ho lol… She’s also quite the hypocrite. Additionally, being a strong woman is usually not frightening to Black men; We are a strong people in general and we’ve been strong women since our days on earth; that’s not the issue. I always find it amusing how Whites think they can speak on Black dynamics.
BW response 29= Sorry but the worst was done to Madonna by a white man. And I have never heard her speak on it. The reason why Madonna gets disrespected is because she didn’t respect herself and she thought that being a white woman would make any man kiss her ass. she’s a typical white person! They all are! They can have a circle of black people around them but still feel that they are superior. The truth of it all is that white men are disrespectful too.
BW response 30= Sean Penn beat the shit out of Madonna, yet he was the love of her life?
BW response 31= Y’all keep giving these “others” passes.
BW response 32= Sweetie, are you blind or just choose to ignore. I was in here about to go in on Madonna, but I come in to see black men being dragged through the dirty as usual. It’s really sad how you have allowed black Hollywood to cloud your thoughts on black men. It’s sick and sad. I’ll pray for you.
BW response 33= some worship white people no matter how racist they are! What’s wrong with taking up for the men in your race?
BW response 34= Who is she to comment on black relationships? White people always in black folks business.
BW response 35= Madonna’s taste in men was, for the most part, horrendous.
BW response 36= That means they were probably calling her b!tch to her face and didn’t worship the ground she walked on because she was a white woman. Typical naive white feminists. Then she had this great epiphany that all races hate “strong” women. Basically when she was acting like an obnoxious spoiled brat. The Black men she dated didn’t find it cute.
BW response 37= read a b!tch DOWN
BW response 38= Wasn’t this bitch tied up, beat to a pulp and forced to perform a lewd sex act by White boy Sean Penn????????????????
BW response 39= The point of the matter is, her comment was ignorant she went from sharing her experience, which was what the interviewer asked for. To make generalizations she knows nothing about. It’s funny how sorten people missed the part about her coming for Black women as well. Because apparently we are conditioned to stay with Black men and take their abuse because of sympathy for them. Yet like it was said she was literally left for Dead by a White Man. What was her reasoning??
BW response 40= Now, I don’t care for Madonna comments, but that is like me trying to tell white women how their men behave. I don’t know the behavioral patterns of white men and I doubt she knows the patterns of a black men. Her comments are null and void to me. I guess I just always had strong black men in my life blah blah blah groan my ass Idc.
BW response 41= Why not talk about the disrespect towards women from all races of men. I’ve met guys that were extremely misogynistic and were a55holes to all races of women. Look at the media and how women are perceived and treated. This isn’t just a race issue.
BW response 42= Girl bye!! No. Making Generalizations is stupid as f**k. She could have made a comment about Men and women in general as it apparently applies to herself since she was beat to an inch of her life and was still professing her love for a white man. she hopped-skipped over the line by saying why Black woman stay with Black men.
BW response 43= I am very surprised that she did not get all the bad press on this on Black men as she has on other things she has said & done.After all these years this is my 1st time hearing about this, I am shocked!
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Ebonymonroe says
A few responses from BW posed an interesting question that you have answered.
BW response 1= black women are caping right now for the same reasons they always do for some reason yall feel like yall gotta protect if madonna was a white man saying this about black women…how many black dudes would come out in droves caping for us??? exaaaaactly.
BW response 2= Where are those black males? They should be in here calling Madonna anything but a child of God. Why are black women defending them in this thread? Where are they? Oh wait they got insulted and dogged out by a white women so they’ll be on mute with this one. Had this comment been made by a black woman they would’ve been in this thread by now
BM responds= She’s rich as shit… whats wrong with him using his prime for a rich white b!tch ?
BW response 3= Really? Bw caping for Dennis Rodman who hasn’t dated a bw since……EVER! Seriously, is caping for BM that serious? Despite her comments, these dudes y’all caping for would still jump over you to crawl up her funky c**ch. And currently a black man in his prime is following this washed up shrivelled up cooch around and y’all still caping hard for them? They ain’t even capin’ for themselves with WW.
BW response 4= Chiiiile! When caping goes all the way wrong! Chicks in here HEATED and yet it’s a black man who bash BW.
BW response 5= She still went on to date/f**k black men. Does that say more about Madonna that she continued fraternizing with a certain group of men who she believed treated her abominably or does it say more about the black men, who continued to have dealings with her despite her very public remarks about black male behavior?
Another BM responds= what would these hoes be doing if weave was never invented?
BW response 6= This thread is filled with bw supporting bm and being bashed by bm for daring to support them.
BW response 7= Actually y’all’s endlessly caping for BM proves Madonna’s comments about bw. bw are here feeling the need to stick up for them. in addition, bm are notorious for being open to dating all races which is why Madonnas list of bm shes dating is a mile long but bw stay on that “only a bm for me”.
BW response 5=
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Ebonymonroe says
Yes, when BW always defend BM, you’re right, BM like yourself get off on attacking BW, the women who defend you. I absolutely compute you saying don’t ask BM to defend BW, I get it. But you have to understand that BW have now begun to understand that some BM don’t feel the same. If you should happen to find BW becoming less inclined to jump to your defense, this is probably why.
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But when sistas critique these critiques, they are shot down for not attacking the White supremacist systems that uphold the poverty in the community.
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Adonis said
There is no benefit for me to help you out. Give me incentive…
Ebonymonroe says
I don’t want your help. BW will defend eachother just like we always have. Everyone knows that. Not every BW will, but many BW will come to each others defense. My position was not about you defending BW from attacks, it was the fact that you’re doing the attacking.
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Personally, I have only ever dated lean, muscular men, but since watching the “Peeping Tom House party 1″ scene the other day, I’ll admit, it did a little something for me. I told my old man that if he decides to get fat when he’s old, I will enjoy it.
But I’m not denying that it is a problem, but it is a SHARED problem.
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Adonis said
Fat BW are problematic. Fat BM are LESS problematic.
Ebonymonroe says
No, I don’t know any BW who would check for a fat BM. Amongst me and my circle of BW friends, we’re young and pretty, no one is going there. I just happen to have a slight fetish. And once again, you’re contradicting yourself, as you have previously implied that BW only want certain types of BM, and included “being good looking” as one of the things BW will not overlook. Being fat is not usually considered “good looking.”
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old: sure, there are BW who are not an option because they’re too old. Just like there are BM who are too old for BW. Unless you have a fetish or something.
Adonis said
OLDER BM & OLDER BW are not equal.
Ebonymonroe
You are arguing a point that I never made, again. I said once you are too old, you’re too old, man or woman. However, this idea that you have about BW being okay with old BM is not true. This, once again, contradicts your claim that BW are very selective when it comes to certain things. One of which, you stated, is looks. If you’re old, you’re not going to be ideally good looking!!!??!
Adonis said
We have different value systems for each.
When you get older, you will know that first hand.
Ebonymonroe says
When I am old I will not be looking for anything, I would have settled down with my old man. I see that you allude to understanding the possibility, that with your attitude, it’s quite possible that you will still be single. I regret to tell you, when you are an old man, if BW are stepping over you, which is something you keep saying about BW, that I assume is something you’re experiencing (this is an assumption; I don’t know you), BW will not care what you value, they will be stepping past you faster than they are now. No one wants an old man. When you’re an old man, perhaps it will be time to stop projecting your misogynistic value systems of women, as you will no longer have any value to young women. Unless you’re rich, but then, I can assure you it wouldn’t be for love. Perhaps it will be a time when you should stop pointing the finger at everyone else, and focus on keeping your te5ticles off the ground, and keeping your hip in place.
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high body count: I’ve heard a number of BM complain that they don’t like BW because they’re too conservative. Whereas non Black women don’t take as long. So this contradicts what others have said. But, like always, it’s very difficult to take one persons experiences seriously because it could contradict the positions of many others. In this case, it does.
Adonis said
Some h0es will get married (to low-value men), but for the most part,
Loose women are for fun.
Conservative women are for marriage.
Ebonymonroe says
Men who are conservative with their body count and freaks with their wives once they get married, are for marriage. But I hardly ever come across that. And don’t tell me men care about it more than women do because I know for a fact that normal W/BW women, these days, get embarrassed at the thought of being “hubbying” a dude who’s had his face in this one and that one. This is a problem for BW when trying to find marriage material, too.
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OOW children: BW are making out of wedlock children with BM, so there are just as many BM with children out of wedlock as there are BW with children out of wedlock. I have been hard pressed to find BM without children, I don’t have any, but I learned to overlook it, if the behaviors that led to out of wedlock children have definitely come to an end. I can assure you, BW are just as had pressed to encounter BM without out of wedlock children, just as much as BM are.
There are many BW who have children by the same man. That is why their will be more BW with kids than BM with kids.
poor relationship intangibles/daddy issues: Psychologically, girls/women who grow up without a father in the home, are far more likely to become teenage mother, due to searching for a father figure. This also affects women’s mate selecting, because they have no example of what makes a good candidate for a husband and father for their children.
Adonis said
Exactly
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Men who grow up, not witnessing a healthy, stable marriage at home, have far greater difficulty in relating to women in a healthy way, as there is no example for how to be a good husband. Since both BM and BW are often raised in single parent homes, the daddy issues, and relationship difficulties are a problem for both genders. There is nothing that BM have to put up with from BW who struggle to relate to men, that BW don’t also have to put up with, from BM who struggle to relate to women.
Adonis said
Remember BW are the ones complaining about not being picked, I am just explaining why. Men grin & bear, and because of the INTERNET, you hear from us in the recent moments
Ebonymonroe said
I don’t think BW are complaining about not being “picked” as much as they’re complaining about the hatred being thrown towards them these days by some BM. I also sense that 1. BW are fed up with being held to a standard that BM don’t reach themselves. 2 Black men will lower their standards for non BW, but a BW has to be “wonder woman” to be treated as well as an average looking WW by BM. And 3. BM are not sticking around to be at home raising the BW who are out there, you do not have the authority to demand the character of women who are the product of you, be a certain way, when you didn’t even take the time to be there at home. 4 Don’t call them bedwenches when they go looking for others, because BW deserve a life mate like everyone else, and if you don’t want to be the ones, don’t accuse them of being a masters slave for trying to find it elsewhere. BW are human beings, not your toilet seat.
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But yes, I do define BW generally preferring BM to be a matter of loyalty.
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Adonis said
Let’s go with that. Black men are just as loyal. Because BW are so concerned about the MINORITY of black men who do date out, and ignore the MAJORITY of black men that don’t.
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Listen, I don’t wanna get into sounding like I have an actual problem with BM dating or marrying out, because I don’t. But if BM marry out the most out of all male groups, then no, they’re not as “loyal” to BW as BW are to them. It’s a matter of mathematics.
Adonis said.
My problem with the loyalty argument, it is the implications. It implies that black women are doing a noble act, even a moral one.
Ebonymonroe says.
You misunderstand when people talk about loyalty, loyalty is not being spoken of as BW being God’s gift to BM (actually technically they are), or like you’re not the worst of all men, at all. All they’re saying is, statistically, in the US, your women tend to stick with you for marriage, in comparison to all other groups, especially in comparison to YOU and your constant displays of hatred towards the very women who love you the most.
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Adonis says
My belief is, with all black men, especially when they don’t have the benefits of ANY GROUP of people, including Black Women,
Ebonymonroe says
I will never accept that being a single mother is a benefit. BM are more than welcome to pop the question, BM are more than welcome to put a condom on their own phallus, BM are more than welcome to try be in the home with your woman and your children, BM are more than welcome to become the single parent, not in all, since the courts tend to favor women, but I’m sure in many instances, they could choose to be single fathers, and receive the joys of welfare and child support you seem to get your panties in a twist about.
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Adonis said
are going to where the women appreciate them.
Ebonymonroe says
I don’t mean for this to come across as patronizing, but if WW appreciate you so much, why do you have the highest divorce rate with them? If BW are where all the problems lay, then why do BW/WM have the lowest divorce rates, even lower than WW/WM? If WW appreciate you so much, why then are they not bucking the trend of being statistically unwilling to wed non WM, until BM have hit the 100,000 mark? If it’s about appreciation and not just your new money? No woman who is worth a man’s time is going to mistreat him and undervalue him, that goes for all races. You need to choose women carefully, believe it or not even BW. And, as a man, as the leader, as a potential head of a household, you need to lead by setting standards with a woman so she knows she cannot disrespect you and also by leading with love and respect. Women tend to follow their man, you have to set the example. Check for someone who has values, is mature, has an education. As they say these things make for less ignorance and better communication. But you need to lead by example. Don’t complain about being a man, there are benefits and draw backs, just like there are for women. You can’t just usurp authority, you need to lead.
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Adonis said
The loyalty argument doesn’t account for the black men who want to date black women, but black women don’t want them. Black women are still in denial about this. Because you want these men to be back-up in case the men you want decides not to marry you.
Ebonymonroe says
As I have said, BW always appreciate BM who are down for BW. People look down on 2pac for the mistakes he made, BW are not gonna go without defending 2pac because he took the time to make “Baby don’t cry” and “Keep your head up.” Also because he spoke up for BW as well as BM. You say Idris and Denzel are the type BW stick up for, I don’t think there’s this shallow type you’re alluding to. Denzel and Idris look like the middle class guys, 2pac was the scruffy bad boy, Michael Jackson who went out of his way to put BW in his videos very early on, and made one of the first modern pop songs of the beauty of African women, with “Liberian girl;” these are men BW love. There’s LL cool J for “around the way girl.” There’s Forest Whitaker, who BW like because of his love for his wife Keisha. There’s Omar Epps who’s with the beautiful Keisha from the group Total. BW like Lebron James, BW don’t like Coby, which one has a BW? You don’t see it but it’s there. And before you say it’s down to look, Forest Whitaker would not be considered traditionally handsome. And remember, Wesley Snipes and Djimon Hounsou are not the Terrence Howard looking BM WW and Hollywood usually values as beautiful. But Before Wesley’s comments, BW loved and championed him, and BW find Djimon beautiful. Also BW usually put dark skinned BM in their videos, BM usually put non BW in their music videos, or mixed race looked BW. You are constantly appreciated but you don’t see it. Why do BW love Drake or J cole? Dudes clown them, but BW are not gonna budge after “Crooked smile” or Drake putting “full blooded looking” BW in his videos, where he’s not even dissing them all the time, in his lyrics. Check for Kendrick after putting that dark skinned beauty in his video “Poetic justice,” they’ll be riding with him. And BW will cut you for talking about men like Maxwell and Common.
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Thanks. That official puts old navy off my list of cloth shopping places.
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upon further read Gap and WalMart. *smh
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@Adonis
Adonis said
“And for those who do date out, we always leave out CONTEXT.”
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BW are outdoing everyone in moving into the middle class, at least their higher education rates would say so. A study found that BW now get loans just as easily as WM do. So essentially, BW are in contexts where it would be more fitting to attribute their marring out the most, if that were the case. So that argument is non applicable by comparison.
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Adonis said
I am in full support of BW dating out.
Ebonymonroe says
Adonis your thing seems to be frustration over BW acting up over BM/non BW, you’re also very much in full support of BW dating out. Essentially, many BM seem to be coming from the place of saying let us go our way and you go yours. Okay, fair enough, you won’t hear me bring it up again.
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Adonis said
I just do not co-sign the KneeGrow Bed Wench mentality.
And I will always feel some type of way when BM & WM are held to different standards.
Ebonymonroe says
But you stay comparing non BW who have had it much easier, to BW who usually have a completely different walk of life???
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I don’t see it as BW doing BM a favor, but that could be viewed as a virtue by some, it just depends on your point of view.
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Adonis said
The virtue angle is what @peanut was implying.
Ebonymonroe says
If you like BW, then yes it is a virtue to know they statistically, up to this point, like you back. If you don’t like BW, then it is a curse.
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Adonis said
When black men are “loyal” to black women, where is the appreciation for that.
Especially to their mothers. Doesn’t for the narrative. Nothing to see here
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We have been discussing BW loyalty to BM this entire time. When BM are killed, like in the case of Trayvon, who’s marching and protesting? Black mothers. Who wrote an entire book on the plight of Black men in the modern slave trade known as the prison industrial complex? A Black woman. When White women are on the jury, sending you into your “early retirement” who do many Black men still say are the better women? Oh, that’s right, non Black women. …………………………………………………………………
Adonis said
Black women need to bring a quality woman to the table romantically. End. Of.
Ebonymonroe says
This is not about your ex girlfriend. You can’t make these blanket statements about BW and make any sense. 70-72% of BW who are college educated, get married, and since BW are going to college more than anyone else, obviously many men are finding value in BW
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Adonis said
Black women either support their male family members OR the black men they like.
Ebonymonroe
Blanket statement. Another racist statement actually! The same women who fought beside your great-grandfathers and come together to protest when a BM is killed, even if they don’t know him personally, right, yes, BW don’t support BM. But when a BG is killed by police brutality, you say it doesn’t matter because there mortality rate isn’t as high. What a joke. Press self destruct and spit at the only people other than BM who have always supported you.
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Name actors who BW would lick between the toes, because they either champion BW, or it has been suggested that they were not willing to do a love scene with a White woman, so as not to offend Black women? Oh yeah, Denzel Washington and Idris Elba.
Adonis said
Black women would still deal with these men, whether or not they sleep with WW on-screen or off-screen.
Ebonymonroe says
Chilli from TLC said Denzel is not her type, and she’s a BW. Another blanket assumption, steeped in racist generalizations.
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I have found in previous conversations with BM on this, that it is very important for me to highlight the fact that much of what I am writing is typed with a smile and a pinch of light sarcasm. As it isn’t possible to gage someone’s tone conversing through this kind of forum. And it can be interpreted as a screaming match, I’m not trying to come off that way @ you (Adonis) or Alicia.
It is fun for me either way.
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I think, at times, people are speaking about BW’s “loyalty,” or unwillingness to part with BM in comparison to BM marrying out the most, out of all male groups in the US and the UK, despite the fact that they both grow up around eachother, which is usually the reason given for why BW tend to stay stick with BM.
Black women deal with BM they like out of SELF-INTEREST, nothing more, nothing less.
Adonis said
“So why do YOU think a MINORITY of BM date out.”
Ebonymonroe
I answered this below
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Adonis said
You did not answer my question.
Ebonymonroe says
Yes I do, in the following paragraph.
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Adonis said
“Why do you think that is?”
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I think it’s for a number of reasons. Statistically speaking, men are more inclined to be open to dating outside of their race than women are. If I’m not mistaken, the only demographic that bucks that tide, is the Asian community. I think there are problems in the Black community that make social dynamics difficult between Black men and women on the home front. Black men are usually quite conservative, as the Black community is quite conservative; whereas Black women are raised to be extremely independent and self sufficient, by there mothers, who are aware of the disadvantages for Black women. So essentially you have both genders of the same group, being raised to have a different world view. They are not wholly incompatible, but they make for differences that can be difficult to overcome. Black women are raised to be feminists, BM are not. There are numerous problems that the Black community faces, which probably just makes stepping out of it, to build your family, very appealing. And the most controversial reason… White women are held as the beauty standard, the epitome of femininity, value, and marriage material, this propaganda has power. Since Black is the antithesis of White, anything non Black could be considered more beautiful than Black women, if one were to subscribe to this hype. And as Alicia alluded, I don’t think BM are exempt from the power of White supremacy. Asian women date out the most, are Asian men bad? I don’t believe that at all. In the same way that I don’t apply the concept of BM dating out because BW have some innate national flaw.
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Adonis said
I could care less about Asian politics right now. You are tap-dancing.
Ebonymonroe says
It is comparative, we are talking about social statistics vs. your statements which are founded on your opinions, so yes, using comparative statistical demographics is credible. This is what you do when you analyze in a credible way, you compare numbers, as well as social structures of communities, as well as mental data collected from ones experiences and that of many other BW. Combined, this is credible. You tap dance and stay away from credibility because everything you say is founded on stereotypes and your experiences, nothing else. I’m using a variety of angels, coupled with an open mind, to form my theories.
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Adonis said
And you don’t highlight, BLACK FEMALE AGENCY. BLACK WOMEN HAVE PREFERENCES TOO.
But a great response tho.
Ebonymonroe says
“O, wiiy fank-u docta.” You allude to the notion that BW are perfectly happy with men who suffer from obesity, while you allude to the idea that BW only like good looking men. You allude to the notion that BW are perfectly happy with old men. You allude to the notion that BW only like men without good characters and financial stability, while you allude to BW making financial stability a preference? I can tell you from my own experience, growing up, the guys in my neighborhood much preferred the girls with all the mouth, who would get in their faces, and curse and drink like sailors. Dudes liked how we looked, but not how girls like me were. The girls like myself who were polite, shy, quite and respectful were not all the rage. I think it’s safe to say, that during youth both BM and BW, just like all other young people, tend to check for the bad boys and the bad girls, until they’re ready to settle down. This is very much a two way street, and not limited to one race. You’re also dealing with numbers, when it comes to BW vs. non BW. Because BW are a greater minority, this can account for finding greater quality among “others” because there are simply more of them.
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And yes, if BW turn down advances from non BM, which is a complaint I’ve heard from non BM, then yes, I personally, would define it as loyalty.
Adonis said
“I define it as lack of attraction & shared culture. If the incentive and OPTION to date out was there, most BW would do it.”
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I don’t think that’s true at all. Most BW would confess to finding Brad Pitt, or Keanu Reeves, or George Clooney very attractive. But your opinion about OPTIONS fits into my opinion regarding LOYALTY. BM complain about BW in the UK, just as much as they do in the US, the only difference here, is that many BW do hop the fence and settle down with non BM, here. I know BW have many opportunities to be with non Black men in the US, I saw it myself when I lived there. But I saw BW repeatedly turn down non BM. That’s generally what I mean about loyalty, I wouldn’t define it as loyalty if there were no other options, because then that would mean it is a matter of not having a choice. Although, as I have already said, I think that is beginning to change. The culture part in non applicable, because BM do not share the same culture as non BW, but it is not a problem. Culture is a difference, but not necessarily a barrier.
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Adonis said
Basically, black women need to date out more, and be happy.
You have always had access to non-BM. Knock yourself out
Ebonymonroe says
Hey, you don’t need to tell us that in the UK, more than one 1/3 of us already do, silly billy. But on a serious note, I have registered what you’re saying. You’re saying “don’t bug me about being with non BW because this is what I want, this is my best option and don’t I want to have to take rubbish about it” and your saying “we are happy for you to go away, we don’t want you so please feel free.” I understand and you won’t hear anymore complaints from me.
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@Adonis
Adonis
No, I wouldn’t see any BM as doing BW a favor, by entertaining her. They should both be humbled and flattered that someone is romantically interested; that would be the honorable reaction, in my opinion.
Adonis said.
The biggest issue with women in America, in general is that they don’t know “their place.” And I do not mean that in the “barefoot & pregnant” sense.
They don’t understand the difference between sex & long-term commitment.
They don’t know the kind of men they can reasonably get to commit to them.
They think they can “have it all” without any sort of sacrifice.
They think men will accept sluts as wives (which happens but is rare)
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First of all, a lot of BM go crazy over the likes of Kim Kardashian, so it could be said that many of these standards go out the window for non BW. ………………………………………………………………………………………
Adonis said
Let us go with that. Let us say that black men hold non-black women do a different standard.
Black men need to be checked on that. By who, who knows. I don’t defend that.
Ebonymonroe says
When I ask why WW/BM marriages don’t last you say finances/economics. When I speak of the social constructs (which includes finances/economics/) you say I’m painting BW to be victims. When you stereotype all BW as orchestrating their own problems like raging hedonists, I explain the social constructs that play such a huge part in it, but you don’t give BW the benefit of the doubt, you don’t take the social constructs into consideration, you says I’m giving BW a monolithic victim narrative. When I express the social constructs that plague BM/BW you say the men and the women are just no good, that I’m making excuses. You need to check yourself, because you did a round about, went in on BW/BM and the complexities of their domesticity and then simplified WW/BM down to a social construct. Very, very bad move man. very bad.
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Secondly, I cannot give a serious response to the claim that most—all American women are promiscuous.
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Adonis said
It is true more than it is not. Play dumb all you want.
Ebonymonroe say
Since you probably haven’t met even 20% of American women, but are comfortable to apply your misogynistic stereotype to all of them. I suppose we can rely on racist WP and their thoughts on BM, even though they haven’t met every BM in America, on that basis, their truth is just a true as yours. Either that, or neither is.
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You should check aids stats because they have been affecting men who look like yourself the most, I’m not being rude, but you’re throwing rocks from a glass house with this us/everyone else thing.
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Adonis said
Men & women are different, and held to different value systems.
When men lose out, no one bats an eye.
When women are benefit, no one bats an eye.
Switch these two scenario, we are OUTRAGED.
Ebonymonroe says
Adonis, this has nothing to do with heterosexual AA men being at the top of the list for so long. I do hope that stat isn’t true anymore because I haven’t checked it in a long time. I do know BW’s are dropping. Rocks…. Glass house.
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You feel a certain disdain for BW, you feel a certain disdain for American women, you never know, not to be rude or anything, but maybe the problem is YOU.
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Adonis said
I know, I have to play the Game. And I will. F–k honesty, character & virtue.
Ebonymonroe says
I’m not sure what this means. If it means what I think you mean, you’re not going to find a good wife that way. Why don’t you try going to knew places. Go look for a woman at church, not in the club.
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Just like how you said to one of the women on here, that they shouldn’t see THEIR bad experiences as a representation of all BM, so you should take your own advice and stop applying YOUR BAD CHOICES IN WOMEN, as a representation of all African American and/or all American women. ……………………………………………………………………………………………
Adonis said
I acknowledge that their are great black women & American Women out there.
I have made the argument, that these women are fine. But @sharina with no real rebuttal, tells us different.
Ebonymonroe says
Well you seem to mock BW when they say they care and take an obvious interest in the welfare of BM. But if this is generally true, I’m glad to hear it.
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What you do with that, is neither here or there, but you would be more credible by living by your own advice.
And I do.
Lastly, men are usually more promiscuous than women are, because it is more socially acceptable,
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Adonis said
It also takes work to be a male wh0re. For women they just have to open their legs, and a man somewhere will put something in there.
Ebonymonroe says
I actually found the first part funny, and the last part revolting. Well you’ve got a b)tthole, in certain places, you wouldn’t have to do much for someone to put something in there. But on a serious note, male wh0res pay later in life, because they end up with a bunch of kids by different women, or an std, or decent women won’t mess with him because of his reputation. Just be patient like we have to be. We don’t turn 18 and just get married anymore you know. Our wait time takes more work.
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and there was a recent study that found that BW are no longer as interested in marriage as BM are, so maybe women are just not wrapped up in being someone’s wife anymore.
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Adonis said
But black women are upset when a black men dates & marries out. Whatever.
Ebonymonroe says
I believe it to be an ever decreasing minority of BW in America. And the study didn’t say “no BW want marriage,” it just found that using its survery that BW seem to be less interested than BM. But apparently this is the trend among all genders of all races. Women are not as into it anymore. Here’s the link…
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Maybe they just want to use your body and leave the money by the bedside table. But don’t let them, baby, don’t let those evil girls take advantage of your body. They’ll put you to sleep and in the morning, when you wake up, you’ll feel dirty. You’re worth so much more. But you can get over this, you’re going to pull through just fine. You’re more than your body. It’s okay.
LOL. What-ever.
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Ebonymonroe says
You could be like Eddie Murphy in “Boomerang” with Robin Givens. But don’t worry, remember it ended well, he got Halle’s character who was a sweet girl, after he learned to calm down his doggish ways. (Hint, hint.)
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I am unable to subscribe to any position regarding “what kind of BM most—all BW want,” as I have not met every BW in America or the UK. It would be silly to make such a generalisation on a blog where we spend so much time condemning generalisations.
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Adonis said
“All generalizations mean that assertion in question is TRUE more than it is unTRUE.”
White people once believed that Africans are subhuman, because they look different. Just because something is widely circulated, doesn’t make it anymore true. I hope you don’t ever complain about racism, you’re backing yourself into a corner with these generalizations. You better be okay with them, when they are applied to you, as a Black man.
Adonis said
Some generalization are BS. Some generalizations have merit.
Obviously, white supremacists have agendas, so they should be not taken seriously.
Ebonymonroe says
No, you can’t pick and choose generalizations when they are all founded on opinions. A WM could get robbed by a BM after spending a lifetime hearing anti BM propaganda through the American media. His experience would confirm it was true, the media says it’s true, so it could be founded on truth by that standard. But of course, they don’t tell you that the census says BM don’t commit the most violent crimes, they just choose to pick up every incident of a BM doing something bad, to fit their propaganda. Now if experience came and confirmed it for the WM, does it make it true. No, he would have had an experience. Even if he has multiple experiences, it still wouldn’t make it true for all 15-20 million AAM living in America. Either both have merit, or none of them do, because they’re both conceived using the same methods of generalizing.
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Adonis said
The point that you & other BW like to avoid is that BW like the same type of men, which are usually in short-supply. So a lot of you man-share. Knowingly & unknowingly. The former is usually the case. But women play dumb
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You’re completely out of your mind, but it’s funny. Okay Adonis, since I’m a Black woman, and my best friend is a Black woman, what is my type, and what is her type? Go on, since you know us so well?
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Adonis said
Strong social skills
Financially sound
Have decent to great sex skills
Masculine
Lean & muscular, broad shoulders, tight hips.
Ebonymonroe says
Lol, at your boldness with this. No to strong social skills, medium is fine, as long as he’s articulate. I’ve always liked introverts. No to financially sound, I don’t mind being the biggest breadwinner, I just think you should do your calling, then you’ll be happy; that could be a mechanic or a doctor. For the next, as long as we can listen and learn and care about trying to meet each others needs that can be learned. As long as he enjoy it, the only thing I couldn’t deal with is low sex drive. Masculine, I like pretty I like masculine. I like it fro Prince in the 80’s to Larenz Tate, to a fat BM who looks like a lumberjack. For body type, I’m open minded, but I do prefer men who are lean and muscular with broad shoulders and tight hips. But I wouldn’t overlook a good looking guy who is a fattyman. When Ice Cube’s bottocks were squeezed in “Friday 2” they were quite juicy, though I tend to go for a frame with tight buttocks, I liked it. I could appreciate it. It’s about character. Men can become attractive just through by the heart. Women like looks, we don’t fall in love with them the way men do.
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To answer your last point about a sudden attraction that stems from a BM having a WW on his arm, I don’t think that’s the case, I think it’s the statistics that keep being circulated about BM marrying out the most, so when BW encounter these couples, it’s like confirmation, and that’s where the slight discomfort comes from. This, however, is simply my perspective.
Google “Social Proofing” and check out the romantic implications.
The thing that BW do not want to admit is that they look up to white women.
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If you are struggling in romantic relationships with BW, statements like these will not help. This is EXTREMELY offensive. I have already explained why I believe BW turn there heads and notice BM who are with WW, so I won’t repeat that. It could be said that BM look up to WM and that’s why they often want what they have WW and European looking Hispanic women, but that’s neither here nor there. I can’t think of a single BW who looks up to WW, when WW like Miley Cyrus are using BW as stage props who’s the first to call her out? BW. When people give daps to women like Madonna, and she gets a pass for calling promiscuity female empowerment as a WW, who rolls their eyes? BW. When she’s appropriating Black culture, and promoting some pseudo sympathy at the plight of the Black community, by making out with a Black Jesus, and falling into the arms of a Black choir, made up of large, mammy looking Black women, as the angelic WW, failing to see the racial overtones in much of her work, like referring to her Black/minority dancers as emotional cripples she collects, in one of her documentaries, who calls her out? BW. I really don’t know any BW who look up to WW. The only thing I’ve ever seen BW do, is try to physically emulate a Eurocentric beauty standard to appease men, including their own.
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Adonis said
I am glad you admit that BW do what to be like WW.
Ebonymonroe says
NO! I admitted BM go after non BW so BW try to appease them by looking like non BW. BW do not enjoy being made to feel that their natural hair texture is ugly, or that their complexion is ugly.
Adonis said
Smart BW call it out. LOUD minority
Ebonymonroe says
The BW who called it out are Black feminists who are always challenging White feminists, As the two movements have nothing to do with one another. BW were fighting WM and WW, while standing beside BM as Africans and as women in America.
Adonis said
And black feminist want to identify with white feminists.
Ebonymonroe says
Black feminism in the 70’s, was a reaction to White feminism, after White feminism began trying to lure Black women in for the sake of attaching itself to the recent social perception of that time; that the concept of Black oppression was “credible,” through Black women, in order to legitimize White feminism. But instead, Black feminism, which refused to align with White feminism, choosing instead to create its own independent discourse, immediately set about attacking White feminist ideas; the fact that their ideas were only relevant for middle class White women, and Black feminism’s gripe over the White feminist promotion campaign of the idea that their struggles were equal to the oppression of the Black community. I also mentioned that, before “third world feminism,” or any other forms of feminism adopted by women of other races and nationalities, Black feminism was actually the very first to reject buying into the narrative that its own male counterpart is the source of oppression.
White middle class feminists tried to market their fight with “their men,” as something that was equal to the sufferings of African Americans, but then, and to this very day, White women are above the social hierarchy of men of color, this is a fact.
Women of color, particularly Black women, have been vulnerable on three grounds, one because of race, two because of gender, and three because of the judicial, social, psychological and economic oppression of “our men,” our fathers, brothers, uncles, cousins, and our husbands. This vulnerability is completely unique to the Black community and contrary to political “women’s lib” propaganda, and pop culture belief, we do not, and never have had anything in common with the complaints that were voiced by the White feminist movement.
One key example of this is jobs. We always worked–as maids and servants. In the nuclear Black family, the woman was generally the breadwinner. In no way did we need to fight to be able to be co-breadwinners. The economic struggle for the Black family unit was/should have been to secure well paying jobs for Black men, as well as better wages for Black women, along with more access to education for both.
It is this full scale, relentless pressure cooker that has morphed the nuclear Black family unit into a vulnerable martriarchal set up.
And since race has also been the determining factor of class, I would certainly side with the theory…excuse me…the FACT that race, is over all, the most systemic trigger for social oppression above the three. The oppressions suffered because of gender and class in this group (people of color, and more than any other, the Black community,) are simply off shoots of a disadvantage that is already in place…because of race.
As far as Black feminism, there seems to be a lot of misunderstanding about its roots and what it’s about. The origins of Black feminism was called “The new Negro women movement,” that came about during the Marcus Garvey era, and was a part of “The new Negro movement.” It was created by BM and BW
The new Negro movement.
With its race-conscious and class-conscious demands for political equality, an end to segregation and lynching as well as calls for armed self-defense when appropriate. In 1916–17, Hubert Harrison founded the New Negro Movement. Harrison is called the “father of Harlem Radicalism.” The term “New Negro” inspired a wide variety of responses from its diverse participants and promoters. A militant African American editor indicated in 1920 how this “new line of thought, a new method of approach” included the possibility that “the intrinsic standard of Beauty and aesthetics does not rest in the white race” and that “a new racial love, respect and consciousness may be created.” It was felt that African Americans were poised to assert their own agency in culture and politics instead of just remaining a “problem” or “formula” for others to debate about.
The New Negroes of the 1920s, the “talented tenth,” included poets, novelists and Blues singers creating their art out of Negro folk heritage and history; black political leaders fighting against corruption and for expanded opportunities for African Americans; businessmen working toward the possibilities of a “black metropolis” and Garveyites dreaming of a homeland in Africa. All of them shared in their desire to shed the image of servility and inferiority of the shuffling “Old Negro” and achieve a new image of pride and dignity.The latter era of Black feminism was very similar to the Black liberation concept of “The new Negro women movement.”
Black feminism is defined as.
“Black feminism is not White feminism, Black feminism does not focus on hatred of men, its focus is reconciling all the atrocities that have been imposed on the Black community. Feminism is the study of women and the female experience, Black feminism is the study of the Black female experience, our history and what we can do to improve the quality of life for ourselves and our communities, but the difference between White feminism and Black feminism is that Black feminism draws from Black liberation in that it demands the community to critically engage with our identity, to separate from colonialized identity dictatorship, and that includes the digestion of media representations of self, for the sake of the whole, not just Black women. One example of the discourse of Black feminism is poverty, Black feminism engages the origins of poverty, assesses how we can independently restructure a system for the empowerment of the Black community. It’s focused on the reconciling of Black families, Black marriage and parenthood. Black feminism is focused on reconciling with our own culture (Black liberation,) to empower our own community. Black feminism is a discourse that seeks to work to restructure the community in a way that benefits the entire Black community and to disengage with White hegemony, and that includes disconnecting with the internalizing of racism (neo racism, Black on Black,) and mimicking White misogyny (and even misandry,) as it theorizes that both the historical, and the present system of White patriarchy is just as harmful to Black males as well as Black women and the community as a whole. Black feminism is Black women working with Black men for Black liberation. Black feminism recognizes the intersectionality of oppression, the oppression of Black men because of race, the oppression of Black women because of race and gender, and the oppression of the Black community because of pervasive poverty, and therefore, issues relating to class.”
In ancient Africa, we had a hierarchy of honor and respect. But we differed from White society in that we were more rooted in the concept of village/community/family life. There were eras (like the hunting era,) where women stayed at home with the children and the men went to gather food. And there were eras (like the planting era,) where men stayed at home with the children and the women were the food gatherers. There were many eras in African family life in terms of how it was structured in order for family life to be as productive as possible, but we never had the gender issues and gender hatred that White society came to know.
While these issues have not stopped White supremacy, Black feminism and Black liberation as a whole, theorizes that the attempts to mimic White society, have caused more disunity, oppression and poverty than benefit for the Black community. The only time Black feminism gets murky is when it begins to absorb White feminist concepts. But true Black feminism is very much separate from White feminism, as it is rooted in Black liberation. One of the most well known Black feminists, Bell Hooks, was one of the first feminists to insist that men’s rights, particularly Black men’s rights be addressed. Black feminism was the first form of feminism to refuse to buy into the narrative that its male counterpart was the source of oppression and the first to include its own men in the narrative of “the oppressed.” Black feminism is essentially Black women using their voices to speak out for the community as a whole. When you discredit Black feminism you descredit the celebrated examples for Black feminsim from Bell Hooks (who has always been vocal for Black men,) all the way to Harriet Tubman. It would be a shame to downplay the contributions of these Black women.
White women sought to mimick the Black movement to validate their plight as women, Black feminism has always distanced itself from White feminism. Go to twitter and check #solidarityisforwhitewomen it was a huge twitter storm where Black women began attacking the hypocrisy of White feminists and voicing the enminity between Black feminism and White feminism. No women do not want to be White feminists. The credible academic discourse of your story as a Black man in America, could come from the hands of a Black feminist. The social protests for you across America could come from a Black feminists/womanist. You indirectly allude to being concerned about hyper-masculinity (violent, hyper-sexual, child abandon men), in the community, as well as BW allowing themselves to sexually exploited by not valuing their bodies; which leads to OOW children. Well Black feminists have been crying out about this, possibly before you and I were born.
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Adonis said
“So, in their eyes, if a particular white woman is checking for a black male, then that black male is more attractive because he has that white woman on his arm.
But if he was alone, he would be invisible to said black woman”
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Ebonymonroe said
See above
Adonis said
You are in denial
Ebonymonroe says
I’ve answered this. I spoke on confirmation. People always want what they can’t have. Women tend to find men more attractive when they’re with someone, men do the same with women. We’re social beings, and our sense of value is probably the same. When someone has something and enjoys it, all of a sudden you want it, too. Women are just as competitive as men, BW and WW are natural enemies, add the confirmation theory; it’s pretty easy to see how BW will notice a BM with a WW more.
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I must add that over the last few years, I’ve heard the reactions from BW change. BW tend to come from the position of “I don’t mind if BM are with non BW, as long as you’re not spewing hatred of BW to justify it. Just leave us out of it.”
Adonis said
“I have heard that too. But anytime IR dating is brought up with black women on a relevant blog, the comment section blows up. Case & Point. This thread. So, it is deeper than a “hatred for BW. It still rubs a lot of BW the wrong way. And it should not”
Ebonymonroe says
Testing how BW feel about BM with non BW via a blog is too small of a sample to say. It’s not credible. I saw on another website, made up mostly of AAW, a BM started taunting them about BM marrying out, they said they don’t care, and started mocking, writing about crickets. If they’re not by now, they’ll get used to it.
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Do you understand that BW outnumber BM? Do you understand that BM marry out the most? Do you understand that 1 in 3 BM have served time, meaning they will struggle to find employment? Do you understand that when women raise you, live in a world where they are constantly told they’re the least beautiful as the antithesis of WW, go marching for you when things hit the fan, raise your children, desire you, write love songs about you, like Angie Stone’s “Brotha,” and how a deep affection for you as “their men,” why it may sting when you turn around and choose non BW over them more than any other group of males? There is no longer enough BM for BW, this is just fact. So why wouldn’t it matter. I personally think BW should just put it to bed, but I understand where they’re coming from. There are even angry BW posters on this thread, who have gotten angry over the emotional outbursts of BW complaining about BM not reciprocating, which many BW now find embarrassing. But if you have had a historical amount of trauma as a group, if you’ve fought, marched, and stood with your men, trying to find a better quality of life, as a group, and then your men become the statistic that jumps ship the most for the women who oppressed them, and still oppress them in a court of law today, you have to see how that stings. Other than that, I’ve answered this question. See my last post to you.
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Adonis said
Again, Black women have preferences, and sometimes black men get rejected, so if I don’t agree with that there is not enough black men to go around.
But there are not enough ATTRACTIVE BLACK MEN TO GO AROUND.
Ebonymonroe says
Mathematically, no, there are roughly 1 million more AAW to AAM. Bring in the other factors and it is valid. But I get what your saying. You’re not seeing BW making the effort to find a suitable mate, and valuing the prospect of marriage. I hate to say it, but women are out of control. Look at show like the “Jersey Shore,” artists like “Rihanna.” Don’t go to the latest nightclub looking for a wife dancing to Lil Wayne, go to Jazz spots, Neo soul clubs, church, neighborhood barbeques. Go to classy places to find class… But trust me, me contend with finding a suitable mate with class, just as much.
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@Adonis
Adonis
@EbonyMonroe
Adonis said
You engaged me, you just ran into a corner, and now you are ready to tap out. Good to know.
Ebonymonroe says
I HATE discussing these topics that take typing 22,000 words, I don’t know if I’ll be able to go another round after these replies tonight. I’ll definitely need a break. It’s not that I mind discussing it.
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@Alicia @EbonyMonroe
Last comment was for @EbonyMonroe
@Alicia
You have to understand that the attitude among a lot of black women is that black men can do, but won’t do.
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These concepts of placing so much blame on Black women being with thugs, despite the fact that both Black women AND men have high rates of out of wedlock children, but it’s placed firmly on the CHOICES of Black women; which is wrong and it’s very oppressive.
The fact that cats keep barking at sistas that they’re choosing thugs, but fail to realize the fact that 1 in 3 brothas in the US have served jail time, and being that Black women already greatly outnumber Black men; cats don’t acknowledge that if they do the math, they are actually demanding that Black women no longer procreate with Black American men at all.
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Adonis said.
I believe that there are more than enough MEN IN THE WORLD that would happily give an America Black woman a long-term commitment, and a ring.
But as you cited a study, black women would rather not be. Good for them. It still does not absolve them from making pore choice in men PERIOD.
Ebonymonroe says
Statistically speaking, we don’t have hardcore evidents on your assertion that BW are ALL choosing the wrong men. One thing we do know, is that BW are choosing AAM. But this issue is too complex to flip it to the extremes. Once again, social constructs. BM and BW have complications separately, put the two together, do the math.
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If sistas speak out about the fact that finding a brotha to settle down with who hasn’t been to jail, is tough, the way cats complain that sistas have on news reports; they are said to be Black male bashing.
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Adonis said
My issue is twofold.
Is he willing to commit to raising his children?
If an emergency comes up, that is different.
But we are talking about choosing men who are into you & the children you create.
If you choose men who think of you as a Jumpoff, sl-t, that is a YOU problem.
Ebonymonroe says
Well with the only hardcore statistics that we have to lean on regarding BW’s choices, that could be flipped to say that BM in general treat BW badly. We could swing this all day and night between the extreme of the sexually available immature hoodrat BW ignoring good BM for BM who are not appropriate partners, or we could swing it to the extreme of the BM stereotype of treating BW horribly, like they joked about in “Reservoir dogs.” Divorce and OOW births has sky rocketed in the states in recent years, even among WP. If something is hurting those with the most, those at the bottom of the totem pole will reflect in en masse. But as far as your points here on picking men, I agree.
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When they do just overlook it, perhaps by taking the institutional epidemic of Black men being targeted by the law for completely nonviolent crimes, they are then told they obviously love drama and shyt on good men for thugs. They cannot do right for doing wrong. Oh, but if they jump the fence, they are called bed wenches.
Adonis said
How about just get married to men who are “loyal” to you. If that is too hard to do, then be a baby momma, be a wench. Do what makes you happy. You will always encounter criticism.
Ebonymonroe says
Yes Adonis, despite the fact that BW already outnumber BM in the US, are having to complete with other women outside their race more than any other women, and are the female counterpart to men who are the least likely to pop the question until they’re middle aged, yes BW can click their heels three times and get married.
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Tie in the fact that statistically, Black men are not likely to pop the question, and when they do, it is usually when they’re middle aged.
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Adonis said
The financial hardships black men go through play into that.
Ebonymonroe says
I know, it’s the economic aspect. I’m aware of that.
Adonis said
The mating habits of black women play into that.
Ebonymonroe says
Boy, please with knowing what every BW is doing with her own v@gina. The AA community is considered to be one of the MOST CONSERVATIVE according to survery. Even police officers admitted that in the documentary “Bowling for Columbine.” As I’ve said BM in the UK and the US have complained that their problem with BW is that they take too long, whereas WW are ready to give it up. You’re all just making up excuses to justify hating BW that contradict one another from BM to BM. The only difference with the White community and the Black community is the educations, larger percentages of two parent household, GREATER WEALTH, safer environments. I refuse to get into this BW do this or that rubbish, because you’re ignoring social construction, where when White girls go off the rails in their teens, they have a greater support system of resources to pull from to push it under the rug. When Black girls go off the rails in their teens; Tyrone likes Trina, she’s starved for male attention, she falls for him, they “go steady” for some time, everyone has lost their virginity in school, but her, as everyone seems to be engaging in risky activities that people in lower income neighborhoods often do. It’s prom night, Tyrone comes over, the condom splits, mom doesn’t believe in abortion the pastor says it’s wrong, dad and mom are conservative and won’t let her go on the pill. She should be going to college, now she’s got a baby on the way. Tyrone gets spooked, he’s a kid. He stick around, but he’s not thinking about marriage for now.
There’s so many possible variables here. In my neighborhood, growing up, which was home to Black and non Black, there were two teenage pregnancies during my generation before college, one girl was Black one wasn’t. Do you want to know why? It’s because when you put any group of people in the same social constructs, no matter what the race, it will result in the same patterns.
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The fact that, in the US, Black women and Asian men are the most racially loyal.
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Adonis said
Y’all should date each other.
Ebonymonroe says
Save the recommendations, you don’t need to palm your women off to other men just because you don’t want them. They’ll be just fine I’m sure. I would recommend you give advice on what your women should be doing with any other group of men, because you’re struggling to maintain marriages/relationships as a group, with BW and WW.
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And generally speaking, everyone is aware of the “war on drugs” epidemic “slave trade,” but we recognize both this institutional systemic oppression and the loyalty factor, and spit in the faces of Black women for continuing to partner with brothas in the US, and then blame them for their CHOICES? This is only one of the many oppressive narratives inside our community. Oppressive concepts that are often spouted by our own men.
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Adonis said
Choose better men PERIOD. Or stop complaining. Be someone’s wife for a change.
Ebonymonroe says
I agree, but when push comes to shove, when you do the math, they’re not rife in your group, and that’s what BW have been selecting from thus far, and that’s just the way it is, whether you wanna accept it or not.
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Black women are some of your biggest supporters, I don’t know what you’re on about. We usually understand the social constructs that plague your circumstances.
Black women support the BM they like or their family members.
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Yes, belittle the women who dedicate their lives to campaigning for you, just because you look like them. WW care when you’re their family, when you’re in court and their on the jury, PUT A FORK IN YOU YOU’RE DONE.
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As I’ve said, you argue that BW are fat, ignoring the social construct that creates this, and since it is easier to attack BW than White supremacy, and the poverty that creates such a situation, that’s what you do. You ignore the social construct, as though BW are fat by choice. But I notice you don’t bring up Hispanic women and their problems with obesity, or YOURS. ………………………………………………………………………………..
Adonis said
Challenging white supremacy take more effort, strategy, planning.
Ebonymonroe says
So you cave in and begin attacking your own people who do not construct their own demise? If that’s not the most surrendered admission I’ve ever come across. Other than seeing a picture of a BM with his WW wearing a “he’s my ni**a t shirt” him smiling away and BM posters giving it the thumbs up. Or BM being flattered at the “king of spades” tattoos WW get to invite BM for sex, as though you’re still nothing but your genitals all these after the Atlantic slave trade. That is akin to an animal who begins committing cannibalism out of madness.
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Adonis said
And black men are to blame for black women being fat.
Ebonymonroe says
I have never said BM or BW are mostly to blame for their own disadvantages, that’s you, in term of BW. I have in recognition of all the angles, as well as self infliction.
Adonis said
However, when black women complain about NOT being chose, I have to remind black women about what you choose not to do, like LOSE weight.
Ebonymonroe says
YOU pop the question, get married and put food on the table, you stop selling drugs and going to jail and spending your 20’s in jail. If you’re confident that you can snap your fingers a make all your problems (judicial, economic) go away, you would have proven that BW can do the same for theirs, (economic).
Overall, over 10% of the US population of women are expected to die from obesity. That’s 1 in 10 women across America.
Adonis said
Hispanic women are not my problem, yet.
Ebonymonroe says
I just don’t want you marrying BW when you have such hatred for them, and so many perverted views towards their rape, being beaten to death, and such disregard for their rich history of fighting for their community, including BM. You’re better suited to a non Black woman.
Adonis said
Black men being fat is not really an issue, like it is for black women.
Ebonymonroe says
I’ve already answered this in detail
Black women are not the biggest claimers of welfare but the story is not told this way? It is fashionable for brothas to refer to BW as welfare queens.
Adonis said
If this is true, I have not encountered this.
Ebonymonroe says
You listen to Tommy Sotomayor, so I can’t imagine how that could be true. Secondly, you have already implied that that is what BW are by constantly talking about BW and their “help” from the government. So yes, the term has been floating around even while we have been discussing this, and it has been coming from you.
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Black women are the least likely to give up their children to the state, but this is not acknowledged, the good never is.
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Adonis said
You mean the single mothers who mate with men who are not in the position to take care for them. Sorry. Black children are better off in the system.
Ebonymonroe says
BW are having more abortions than any other women in America. They’ve don’t want to breed anymore individuals like yourself. By the way Black children in the system are never placed as easily as White children. So you’re recommending the possibility of Black children having to grow up in children’s homes, (which are notorious for being some of the roughest environments children can grow up in), like orphans with no parents. Let’s add “don’t have kids” to not marrying a BW. By the way, as the BW hatred from BM grew online, there are now BW saying they can’t have children, as they’re afraid to give birth to sons who will grow to hate them no matter how much they try. If this fear expands, you’ll die out, and you won’t have anything to complain about women who look just like your own mother and are probably just like your own mother.
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Black women are accused of not raising good Black men for society, “they have failed as the father and the mother.” But they are also accused of committing Black genocide via their abortion rates. Black women are criticized for not leading as mother and father, and yet criticized for leading?
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Adonis said
Choose better men.
Ebonymonroe says
Which means, statistically speaking, they should stop marrying American BM, along with non BW. But of course, it is not as cut and dry as you are trying to make mate selection out to be.
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Divorce rates are statistically linked with those who suffer from poverty the most; being that (if I remember rightly), 50% of Black America lives under the poverty line; yet it is put down to Black women and every stereotype imaginable associated with them. ……………………………………………………………………………………………..
Adonis said
Black women are not even making it down the altar like that. Lol
Ebonymonroe says
What’s so sad that I’m not American and yet I know more about the state of your community than you do. You just listen to anti-Black media propaganda and vomit it to laugh at the misfortunes of your own people. Sadly, the last laugh is one you because BW are getting married.
Four Myths About Black Marriage
Setting the Record Straight
Is marriage for white people? That question has been asked in one form or another in a series of news reports about the black marriage “crisis.” On the surface, such stories seem to be concerned about black women in search of love, but these media reports have largely served to fuel stereotypes about African Americans. Moreover, by suggesting that too few black men are available to wed, news stories on black marriage have done little more than predict doom and gloom for African-American women who hope to marry. In reality, black marriage isn’t reserved for the likes of Barack and Michelle Obama. Analysis of census data and other figures has debunked much of the misinformation floating around in the media about the black marriage rate.
Black Women Don’t Marry
The barrage of news reports about the black marriage rate gives the impression that African-American women’s chances of walking down the aisle are bleak. A Yale University study found that just 42 percent of black women are married, and a variety of high profile news networks such as CNN and ABC picked that figure up and ran with it. But researchers Ivory A. Toldson of Howard University and Bryant Marks of Morehouse College question the accuracy of this finding. “The often-cited figure of 42 percent of black women never marrying includes all black women 18 and older,” Toldson told the Root.com. “Raising this age in an analysis eliminates age groups we don’t really expect to be married and gives a more accurate estimate of true marriage rates.”
Toldson and Marks found that 75 percent of black women marry before they turn age 35 after examining census data from 2005 to 2009. Moreover, black women in small towns have higher marriage rates than white women in urban centers such as New York and Los Angeles, Toldson remarked in the New York Times.
Educated Black Women Have it Harder
Getting a college degree is just about the worst thing a black woman can do if she wants to get married, right? Not exactly. News stories about black marriage often mention that more black women pursue higher education than black men—by a 2-to-1 ratio according to some reports. But what these pieces leave out is that white women also earn college degrees more than white men do, and this gender imbalance hasn’t hurt white women’s chances at matrimony. What’s more, black women who finish college actually improve their chances of marrying rather than lower them. “Among black women, 70 percent of college graduates are married by 40, whereas only about 60 percent of black high school graduates are married by that age,” Tara Parker-Pope of the New York Times reported. The same trend is at play for black men. In 2008, 76 percent of black men with a college degree married by age 40. In contrast, only 63 percent of black men with just a high school diploma tied the knot. So education increases the likelihood of marriage for both African-American men and women. Moreover, Toldson points out that black women with college degrees are more likely to marry than white female high school dropouts. But cats fail to mention that Black male/White female divorce rates are the highest among all interracial marriages. In this case it is linked to “the family not being accepting,”
I think it is because Black men not having their finances together. Simple.
Rich Black Men Marry Out
Black men drop black women as soon as they reach a certain level of success, don’t they? While plenty of rap stars, athletes and musicians may choose to date or marry interracially when they achieve fame, the same is not true for the bulk of successful black men. By analyzing census data Toldson and Marks found that 83 percent of married black men who earned at least $100,000 annually got hitched to black women. The same is the case for educated black men of all incomes. Eighty-five percent of black male college graduates married black women. Generally, 88 percent of married black men (no matter their income or educational background) have black wives. This means that interracial marriage should not be held responsible for the singleness of black women.
Black Men Don’t Earn as Much as Black Women
Just because black women are more likely to graduate from college than their male counterparts doesn’t mean that they out-earn black men. Actually, black men are more likely than black women to bring home at least $75,000 annually. Plus, double the number of black men than women make at least $250,000 annually. Because of pervasive gender gaps in income, black men remain the breadwinners in the African-American community.
These numbers indicate that there are more than enough financially successful black men to go around for black women. Of course, not every black woman is looking for a breadwinner. Not every black woman is even seeking marriage. Some black women are happily single. Others are gay, lesbian or bisexual and unable to legally wed those they love. For heterosexual black women in search of marriage, however, the forecast is not nearly as gloomy as has been portrayed in the
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DID YOU SEE THAT ADONIS 75% OF BLACK WOMEN ARE MARRIED BY 35. So what’s your excuse? What about the BW haters on youtube? What about all these men who are frustrated over being single, who keep condemning Black women as the problem, and bringing up false stats, when Black women aren’t even single???
Here’s the source…
http://racerelations.about.com/od/diversitymatters/a/Four-Myths-About-Black-Marriage.htm
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but with sistas, it couldn’t be the systemic oppressions of poverty, and the social constructs that plague BW/BM, it is the attitude.
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Adonis said
A lot of you are difficult to deal with. I see you are in denial about this.
Ebonymonroe said
When BW are with WM they have the lowest divorce rate of all. But when you’re with non BW you have the highest divorce rate of all. It seem the problems may rest on you as well. From Madonna to “Reservoir dog,” it is a running punch line the way certain BM feel it is fashionable to treat BW. WW are on youtube apologizing to BW in the comments that their men are so awful, under BW hate videos by BM. You think people don’t know see how pervasive this is in our community? Sweep around your own front door before you go checking anyone’s, BM, because you are in no position to point your finger at any demographic in the Western world.
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These are all acceptable double standards and communally acceptable demonizations of BW, which only reinforces preexisting oppressions from the White voice. There are heavy problems outside and inside the Black community for Black women, which makes talk that oppression can be attributed to within as well as without, fully legitimate, imho.
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Adonis said
Black men & black women are held to different standards. Get over it.
Ebonymonroe says
White men are treated like kings and BM are treated like rubbish, don’t complain, get over it. The only groups who wouldn’t are other BM and BW. BW however, I becoming more and more convinced not to care at all. I’d rather have WM running the country than a bunch of BM with as much impassioned hatred towards BW. If you’re anything to go by, you would not be a suitable leader in the mental state you’re in.
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There is a lot of racism within our own community, but it is fashionable for it to be geared towards Black women. And it is just that: racism. You can hear it in the language, the ideologies, the stereotyping, the generalizations, that sound so familiar, because I’ve heard it before, I heard it from White people. Luckily as I approach my mid 20′s I find I have finally reached that place where you’re not so wide eyed, but finally able to call something what it is and roll on. I ain’t got time for it, and understand full well that the same hatred that is thought to be confined to some White people is actually rampant in the Black community, too. And that’s just the way it is. This is what BW are talking about when they speak of loyalty. Many of us recognize what you go through, many BM demonize us for what we go through.
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Adonis said
And the same could be said on the BM side, about BW.
From the hoodrats to the Bed Wenches.
They work hand in hand with white supremacy.
Ebonymonroe says
Adonis are you all there? Am I corresponding with someone who has all their mental faculties? Because you will admit BM have no institutional power as it pertains to the mainstream media, but then turn around and suggest BW have the institutional power to uphold a White supremacist system. LMBOROTF.
Listen, just leave Black women alone, when I heard them complain about BM marrying out (even though most well adjusted Black men are enjoying their lives with other well adjusted Black women), I will be sure to help them understand why it’s for the best. I even spoke to a friend about it, and she 100% agreed, men who feel this way, and display the hatred across the internet for BW, are better marrying out, even if they made up 100% of AAM. That’s my word.
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Adonis said
I really appreciate that you add context to the conversation.
Because black men are the least likely to get help from their government & their families, but they are still expected to thrive like white men & black women.
Overlooking all the help that white men & women & black women get.
……………………………………………………………
You don’t apply any context to BW. It is what it is.
……………………………………………………………………………………………
Adonis said
I know black women better than they know themselves.
Ebonymonroe says
You didn’t even know the statistics on how much your own women are getting married, but you claimed you did. (Throws head back in laughter.) You don’t know a thing about your own community, you’re probably getting your information from music videos of BET. Like Frantz Fanon said “Black skin White mask.”
……………………………………………………………………………..
Adonis said
And you better be sure that BW don’t put BM in any contextual framework.
You are the lone BW That did.
Ebonymonroe says
Here’s another response to the Madonna article I forgot to include, it was from a BW upset over the zimmerman verdict, shortly after.
“Of course that’s the reason! It makes perfect sense! Just in case anyone forgot, it’s been heavily reinforced this week that Black men aren’t sh*t- never have been and never will be. And that goes for every, single last one of them! However, Sean Penn is White, therefore his actions must be viewed on an individual basis and cannot be used to describe all White men.”
I’ve seen BW post videos about their love for BM on you, spoken word expression, poetry, history, encouragement, and dedications. I witnessed time after time as BM told them they were ugly because of their natural hair, that they’re leaving them for non BW. I’ve seen them nitpick at a particular word being used, because they didn’t like a particular word in the poem. Nothing is ever good enough. But the truth is, BM like yourself are not good enough for BW. We just didn’t realize it at first.
@contextual framework.
What’s the point, BW fight, march, campaign, and have died for BM since they were pushed off the ship covered in their own blood, urine, vomit and fecal matter. You belittle our the contributions of our BW ancestors, you mock up when we bring up that we know and we care. Dude, if nobody cares, it’s because so many of you are too unrecognizable to register anymore. This is what you want anyway, you go your way, and we’ll go ours. BW and BM are not alone, they are happy together, or in interracial marriages with others. You BW bashers don’t know that YOUR ARE THE ONLY ONES WHO ARE SINGLE AND ANGRY.
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I was wondering when someone would bring out the Toldson and Marks study on Black marriage in the U.S….
I spit it out so much last year that i got tired of using it (note: people with their IRR agendas kept denying it)…
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I believe I remember you bringing it up. I thought you brought it up sometime recently as well.
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^Maybe so…i’ve lost count.
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LOL. It happens. 🙂
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This week’s episode of, “white privilege”
I want every black person to notice the title of this week’s episode.
” Video shows mentally ill man shot by Dallas police”
Notice how they make it a POINT, to reveal that this white man was, “Mentally ill”
(http://youtu.be/OFR1q-Ko-P8)
This is a perfect example of how, white people can be mentally ill or sick physically but not black people. I am horrified by this videos of the killing of this man for no reason, whatsoever. he was murdered by this police officer, period.
Even as a black man, i will condemn wrong doing, when i see it with my own eyes, unlike the majority of white people, that would make every excuse in the book as to not condemn another white person or white cop for killing a black man in the same scenario!
This white women in the video, will receive justice in the form of a multimillion dollar settlement from a civil rights law suit by her lawyer, because white life is worth millions but black life is only worth a few thousand at worst and a couple hundred thousand at best!
watch this video about a 85-89 year old black man to contrast this video.
“Diabetic Killed By Police After 911 Call For Help”
Notice how they make it a point to NOT reveal this black man’s metal state at the time of his murder by a police officer.
I also want to point out, that the host of this video, ALSO make it a point to say, “this guy just happens to be black”, i don’t think it had nothing to do with race but class!
This is the new, color-blind racism in full effect! “its not about race, its about class” , racists would say.
So i guess all the black men and boys that are killed by police every single day, across all 50 states in America, “just happen to be black”?
(http://youtu.be/DJacEzgqzEE)
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@Ebonymonroe
I am addressing you as we speak.
Nice for you to drop in
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Is it true that Peppermint Pattie is gay?
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@ phoebeprunelleo
A lot of the running jokes indicate that she is, but as for certainty….I am curious about this as well.
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@EbonyMonroe
This was written by a Canadian Woman.
The link is broken for now. But I saved the post.
And then women wonder why their is no incentive for any man to want to get married.
Yes Being a Good Guy Means You Have to Wait for Sex by Max @ Lidia-Anain
http://lidia-anain.com/should-women-wait-to-be-in-committed-relationships-before-having-sex.html
Yes Being a Good Guy Means You Have to Wait for Sex by Max @ Lidia-Anain
A woman I know has a foolproof plan for getting rid of unwanted suitors: she f*cks them. When she goes on a first date, the instant at which she realizes she never wants to see this guy again is immediately followed by the instant in which she decides she’s dropping panties immediately. She has a bit of a reputation now, but what she doesn’t have is pests blowing up her phone or stalking her.
The reason my friend’s plan works so well is that almost every man will get bored with the woman who readily gives up sex. It’s not always instantaneous, but sooner than later his eye will be caught by someone else, and when that someone else makes him work for the pums, he’ll forget all about the p*ssy he got and focus on the p*ssy he’s not getting. Ain’t no p*ssy like new p*ssy, isn’t that how the saying goes?
So to safeguard against the phenomenon of a man we’re interested in losing interest in us, we women have to hoard our vaginas. And you can’t really even blame us from doing it. Pretty much from birth women have been inundated with the idea that a man won’t respect us if we give up the nani too easily. It’s drilled into us by our mothers and by the horror stories we’ve all heard about girls waiting until the right time and then being dumped the morning after. Yes, this still happens. And although the sexual revolution, Samantha Jones, and blogs such as this one have done their part to spread the message that there’s nothing wrong with a woman expressing her sexual desires, deep down what we all fear in life is that sickening realization that the man we’ve been dating was really only in it for the bums.
And yes, we know that if you’re only in it for the bum you’re gonna bounce whether it comes three minutes or three months in. We know this. But still we have to do what we have to do to safeguard our emotions. That’s just the way life goes.
But we gals have our needs and making every dude wait three months is bad for business. Which is why we thank God every day for the invention of throwaway dudes. We don’t call them that of course, but that’s what they are. Men who serve a purpose but not the purpose, so we don’t have to be all that careful with them. We can wear glasses on dates with him. We’ll pick up his calls on the first ring. And we’ll give up the pums the first time he asks because if it turns out that’s all he wanted and he never comes around again, it’s okay. We didn’t really like him anyway.
However, if we like you, we have to make you wait. We just do. By your own admission men are hunters. You value that which you have to work for. And while you might not brand a girl a hoe for slobbing your knob on the first date you will be something less than consumed with desire after that. And a man who is less than consumed is an unruly man, until he becomes an absent man, that is.
The other part of the equation is simply that if we like you we want the sex to mean something. We want to take all our feelings and express them through our vaginas. We want – forgive me – it to be special. And come on, even you guys have to admit that sex is more special if you build up some anticipation around it, right?
But Max, you say, how is it fair that while you’re stringing us along making us wait for the goods you’re dashing them out freely to some simp you don’t even like? Why are they getting the good stuff and we have to take the scraps? Because, my little grasshopper, in our minds the simp is getting the scraps and you’re getting the good stuff – the p*ssy plus package, if you will. While the throwaway dude is getting cutty, you’re getting to hear our thoughts. Yeah I’m swallowing his kids but I’m telling you what I dream of naming mine some day. He’s blowing my back out but you’re the one I really care about – and in our minds that trumps sex every time. Plus we do intend to sleep with you eventually so in the end you’re coming out the winner.
At the end of the day, this is girl logic in the extreme. So I’m not even going to attempt to get you men to co-sign the behaviour. But just accept the fact that when a girl makes you wait for sex it’s a compliment. It’s a testament of what she wants to show you about herself, what she wants you to think of her.
It basically comes down to this: if you’re not the right guy and I know it, I have no expectations of you and I’m not trying to impress you. I want nothing from you but a good time so there’s no filter on my words or actions and you can get the scoop the first night. But if you’re the right guy and I want everything from you, it’s going to take some time. If I like you, I want the sex to be meaningful and for the act of sex to signify us reaching a certain point in our relationship. Sex becomes the gateway from nothing to something. If I don’t like you, the sex just stays nothing.
But in the immortal words of Janet Jackson – I promise. It will be worth the wait.
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@EbonyMonroe
Finally, I’m done.
7 spoonfuls of rebuttals coming up.
It is long, just take what you want to reply to, or just don’t reply at all.
Doesn’t matter to me. I enjoyed it.
See you soon.
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1. @EbonyMonroe
(((((P.S.)))))
I will address your comment point by point, but before I start, I will sum up my POV
(((((Opening Statement)))))
^^^^^(1.) YES. There are systematic & sociological problem that affect Western Black Men & Women, and yes it manifest itself differently.
My knowledge of external factors are on par with your knowledge of external factors, especially when it comes to BW.
However, I live in America, in a big city to be exact. Nobody, especially women, GAF about how you came to be, and why you behave the way you do.
Are you ATTRACTIVE or Nah?
Yes. She spreads her legs & deals the consequences later.
Nah. We don’t care how much of a great husband you strive to be. I rather be a single mother and suffer.
You make it seem like “good/decent/nice/fatherly/spouse-driven” black men are really dysfunctional and that is why they do not get chose by Black women.
When really the only crime is that they are unattractive. End. Of.
And then turn around and have an expectation that they men be “loyal” & ask them to exercise patriarchal performances, like protect, provide & defend even though they are not being compensated AND the women pick & choose when to be A 1950’s woman and a 21st Century woman at her whim,
I don’t know WHY you are in denial about this. WE HAVE WESTERN WOMEN coming out of their own claptraps COMFIRMING THIS.
Search “#ASNTalk” on Twitter
http://www.hookingupsmart.com/2011/08/24/hookinguprealities/price-discrimination-in-sex/
http://m.psychologytoday.com/blog/finding-true-love/201002/bad-men-dont-wait-have-sex
http://lidia-anain.com/should-women-wait-to-be-in-committed-relationships-before-having-sex.html
Now, if black women were victims of their environment, why would articles like these exist,
Now, where were we.
^^^^^(2.) I am slightly insulted & amused that you accuse me of mimicking white men. Good and bad.
Every system, religion, lifestyle, health practice is a bastardized form of African traditions.
They did not invent ANY of that sh*t, outside of Racism, which is an elevated form of tribalism/genocidal practices.
You accuse me of being ungrateful to the recent ancestors who actually put in work.
I should remind you do the same, any time you remotely give white men credit for the actions they take. Kiss the ring.
Let’s do this
—————-
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2. @EbonyMonroe
(((((Actual post.)))))
Agreed.
I believe in Survival of the Fittest. I get we have obstacles, and I am more blind to BM struggles than of BW.
Evolve or die. End. Of.
🙂
This part of the black community you are going to have to deal with one way or the other.
We are probably the most valuable in terms of enacting change, bringing a positive influence to the black community.
But if the black community doesn’t see it that way, we will take our talents elsewhere & watch this b-tch BURN.
I am marrying a black woman. End. Of.
The next generation will appreciate my efforts.
Let me quote myself, since you conveniently like to Straw Man my position on things.
Challenging white supremacy take more effort, strategy, planning
Meaning that i am willing to challenge it, but I would come at it from a completely different angle, and I would need support.
White supremacy is supported as a group, it needs to be challenged by another group.
Making poor choices & being a victim is two different things.
Getting caught on the 95th floor in the World Trade Center is being victimized.
Getting married and your husband abandoning you & the children he created is being victimized.
Standing on the sidewalk, and a bus JUMPING the curb and killing you is being VICTIMIZED.
IF YOU ARE MAKING THE ARGUMENT THAT BLACK WOMEN HAVE NO GOOD (men that will commit to/marry you long-term & help raise HIS children) BLACK MEN TO CHOOSE FROM.
Then I understand. But that is not the case. And you KNOW that, and when called out, women admit this is not the case.
They know who WE are, and break us down by type. And choose the ones they like.
Especially when we are off with non-black women. They know exactly who we are.
You insult & amuse me again.
Search for
@xPraetorius @Adonis
Search “@Da Jokah” and @Adonis
Search them all in these Abagond posts.
I BEAT the brakes off these Closeted White Nationalists. I eat these fools for breakfast.
But when you are not paying close attention, and you pick & choose what I say, instead of evaluating my ENTIRE body of work, I can see how you can have a WILLFUL BIAS, and continue to STRAWMAN my positions.
@EbonyMonroe you sleep on me, and I creep up & bash you in the head,
WAKE UP & pay attention, things are not what they seem.
Being critical of delusional BW is so much fun.
I understand what they go through, same with black women.
I don’t give them a pass though.
Black men need to get their money up.
Black men need to learn the law.
Black men need to learn Game & emulate the men that black women SELL THEIR SOULS FOR.
The difference here is that, IDGAF if Black Women SINK or SWIM.
GOOD Black Women understand where I am coming from & no explanation is needed.
I apply that same standard to myself also. I have my share of hardships, that I can NEVER EVER take credit for.
I also have inherited SHORTCOMINGS (& advantages) from my family background that I am charged with to fix or have my children repeat. It is what it is.
Being a victim in a war zone helps nobody.
This is about survival!
Play in traffic @EbonyMonroe
What-ever!
I am insulted & amused how you pull on the legacies of your ancestors.
I can also pull on the legacy are Martin Luther King, Jr. who slept with all kinds of different women while married.
I think I want to continue that part of his legacy. 🙂
There is NO benefit for me to support you or women who look like you, especially When there is no POT OF GOLD at the END OF THE RAINBOW.
When there is, I’ll holla.
Otherwise, black woman, YOU ARE ON YOUR OWN.
That his HER legacy, and I totally emphasize why she would feel that way.
But that his HER legacy, our job is to learn from it & MOVE ON.
I took all the good I can from it, now her LEGACY is a burden.
I will be looking forward to that e-mail in a few years talking about how I was right, and you will apologize with grace for pestering me,
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3. @EbonyMonroe
My family lives in London, and I believe your POV is accurate.
The opportunity in America is better than it is in Britain. But the racism is more intense HERE in America.
I think I would enjoy the UK. See you soon.
My point is LOOKS before RACE. That is all.
You are getting deep, because you want to tap-dance around the fact that Black Women engage in short-term dating practices that affect their long-term chances of getting a husband, affect their chances of moving up in social rank.
You keep making the argument that black women have NO CHOICES (like “staying single & childless” or “dating marriage minded, financially sound non-black men” or dating marriage minded, financially sound black men)
EVERYBODY IS GETTING FXXKED THE AZZ BY WHITE SUPREMACIST POLICIES
THAT DOES NOT LET YOU OFF THE HOOK FROM CHOOSING BETTER MEN.
Now, if BLACK WOMEN ARE INCAPABLE OF CHOOSING BETTER MEN. It flies in the FACE OF FEMINIST THEORY, that MEN & WOMEN CAN BE EQUAL OR SHOULD BE EQUAL.
And women need their RIGHTS & PRIVILEGES taken AWAY.
I did not VOTE for Obama, and I am not a supporter of him. I believe when it is all said & done he will be a NET-NEGATIVE for the American Black Community & melanin-enriched people abroad.
Yay for us. They made their money & now it is time to act like they GAF.
………………………………………..
You are the first woman I have encountered on-line to break it all down with compassion.
Let’s celebrate.
My life has not improve nor taken a turn for the worst.
White power!
You didn’t answer my question
Raw Numbers or percentage points?
A white woman did this study. I think she went to college in Massachusetts. I am surprise you knew about this.
I am debating you for long periods of my life. I will have to enjoy this Dog & Pony Show one way or the other.
Link please? Lazy KneeGrow over here.
Black women support the BLACK MEN they like because it is in their BEST INTEREST.
I AM GOING TO DO THE SAME.
These black women are not doing anything noble or exemplary. They are not doing the LORD’s work.
It is purely selfish masked as some self-sacrificing endeavor.
For the record, when those black girls for killed in that church in Birmingham 50 years ago, black men sat on their thumbs & sang “We Shall Overcome”.
What about the Watts riots. Whatever
I can pull on the legacies of BM who ride for BW, but that is too easy & I am full of pride to create my own, and you ignore these events at your conveniences.
I already know how black men are more disadvantaged than black women right now, today.
But in WHAT WAYS DO BLACK MEN have it easier than BLACK WOMEN?
Anybody can answer this SERIOUS question.
By the way, being RAPED and being MURDERED is the same to me. Is it the SAME to YOU?
Now go!
We all (American Black Men & Women) killed Trayvon because we refuse to tackle the system of White Supremacy & we support it & play games with it. That is our cross we have to bear. Fair or unfair.
Whites are very consistent. Covert & cowardly, but consistent. And I have to pop my collar to that.
As American Black Men & Women, what are WE gonna do about it?
Because another high profile case involving a young black male is about to die at any minute.
So, what-ever.
Oh, I get it, I just don’t give out victim passes for it.
These men & women are making THE BEST for THEM & their FAMILIES. Good for them.
And I do not buy most cases of domestic violence caused by a well seasoned con-artists.
That is the story that makes headlines. Good for him.
Like attracts Like. You have no problem admitting that when it comes to my dating woes or someone you think lowly of.
BUT when it comes to domestic violence victims, that truth doesn’t apply. These men & women had it coming to them.
You change up when it is convenient @EbonyMonroe
Also, on the flip side “GOOD/Nice/DECENT/FATHERLY/SPOUSE-DRIVEN” Black Men who take great pains to be the antithesis of the domestic violence abuser get overlook & ignored AND ARE EXPECTED TO SUCK IT UP.
Also, their noble aspirations is questioned & they get lumped in with the abusers.
Of course we have different standards for the people we like, relate to &/or are attracted to.
And different standards for the men & women that fall short of these categories.
They love these men. For the men that fall short of the love criteria, they don’t get to the jail fast enough.
They need to take that azz whooping. They are masochists.
Pick. Better. Men. Or Die. Or take that azz whooping.
We know you like it. Because GOOD BLACK MEN are unsexy & boring.
I stay woke.
I am okay with no more black children being born, if it means black women would close their legs or get with men of any races that GAF about them.
Again, that is your fault if you continue to entertain any man who beats on you, makes children with you & abandons you.
Masochistic wh0res. I love it. We should make a movie about it.
Pretty much. I could care less what happens to BW at this point. They bodies are GREAT for recreation.
When black men shoot themselves in the foot, THEY OWN IT. By choice or by force.
Because the WHITE MAN excuse doesn’t even fly anymore.
Black women blame everyone else for their messed up predicaments. Only when they are OLD & WASHED UP (35+), now they get it. Whatever.
I do not defend black male malfeasance. Black women make it a point to enable, support & defend these men, so criticizing them is pointless.
And black women are fine, otherwise they would change their behaviors. Incentives, baby, incentives.
Now you are OUT OF YOUR FxxxING league fool.
I remember Chris Rock saying (& I will find the exact quote)
“A young black man gets more props coming home from jail than graduating from college.”
Hip Hop is RUN, OWNED & SUPPORTED BY Whites & Jews. Especially the ignorant sectors.
So, is the NAACP. It was FOUNDED by Whites/Jews.
But you are so quick to lay it at the feet of a young black male &
@solesearch uses that to make her NON-EXISTENT BLACK PATRIARCHY argument
Their are conscious rappers & even the Little Wayne’s, 50 Cent’s & the Two Chainz who spew ignorance are smarter than what their lyrics BELIE.
The conscious rappers do not get the support, financial backing & the radio play.
Even if black people rejected this music, whites still are willing to pay top dollar for it
AND BLACK WOMEN
THEY ARE IN THE FRONT ROW, when Chris Brown, Lil Wayne come to their city. Lol. I am sleep tho.
I agree & understand & sympathize with why they feel the way they do.
You do not, that is why you have no problem throwing them under the bus.
I have heard Tommy Sotomayor give praise to White Women. Or challenge black women to point to where “white women do it too” when attempting to avoid responsibility for “Black Female Malfeasance.”
The only time I have heard Tariq Nasheed give praise to white women are
Anna Nicole Smith (for marrying a Billionaire) & other white women for going for the big money
And
Kim Kardashian for the FAKE WEDDING she profited off of.
He has praised black men & women
And he has been critical of black men & women.
Links upon request.
Tommy Sotomayor has been critical of whites women also.
He highlighted the case where whites lured two black men to their homes & killed them & had an orgy on top of them.
Again,
I have heard Tommy Sotomayor & Tariq Nasheed PRAISE & CRITICIZE BLACK WOMEN
You keep conveniently forgetting that 90% of these institutions have white hands/origins/ all over it.
I already highlighted the NAACP.
The black church has BEEN infiltrated, these leaders answer to whites/Jews. Chain of command.
I cannot speak for the black business with the most revenue. Links please.
I take my cues from the streets, what I actually see, what black men & women actually tell me.
The media lying is one thing.
What we experience, and the perspective I get from interacting on blogs, twitter, FB traveling. Priceless.
You can stay in denial tho.
Are you telling me that White/Jewish men would RATHER pay BLACK MEN more money than BLACK WOMEN doing the exact same work. Giving the same exact value.
I get the racial aspect of the pay gap from blacks to whites. Too easy.
But YOU NEED MORE PEOPLE on the Gender pay gap, specifically when it applies to BM & BW.
I will NIGnore THIS, because I think the mythical wage gap when it applies to BLACK MEN & BLACK WOMEN is BS.
I ask, because, since when did black women become a target, they were not a target before.
I am asking for a historical perspective.
Where black women ALLOWED TO COMMIT CRIMES up until a certain point, and then law enforcement decided to crack down.
Or are black women being targeted, falsely accused. Which one is it?
You gave me STATS but NO CONTEXT!
All you did was give me a stat, with NO CONTEXT. What-ever.
Choose better men.
Black men improve. Black women improve.
Although, you can help improve the behavior of black men by only opening your legs for men who are going to stick around and help you raise the kids.
This is because you cannot defend it when a black woman makes a pi$s poor choice, and then wants to scapegoat black men for her pi$s poor choice
I get white supremacy & why it seeks to destroy men who look like me. I respect it.
Are you arguing that black women only have DYSFUNCTIONAL BM to choose from. That is a bullsh-t argument.
I am arguing that you like a certain type of BM, & you procreate with this type of BM, but now that life & white supremacy has kicked your behind, you want out.
Too late.
You are just in denial.
So, are you also making the argument that these law enforcement does not want to punish these BM who rape & pillage?
I get protecting white pedophiles & rapist. But even black ones too.
News to me.
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4. @EbonyMonroe
If men can stop people from MURDERING each other, why does RAPE get a special award.
I say learn to enjoy it, since you have no real solutions for it.
Because poor choices are indefensible. We get it
If this was true for BM, I suggest you go date non-BM. For your own benefit.
Victims vs Volunteers. Know the difference.
I know it hard to get off your bias high horse when it comes to BW. But I know you can do it, we have come this far!
At this point, you believe whatever helps you keep on the business of living.
You ignore context when it is convenient @EbonyMonroe
I will have a black wife.
Well considering I LOVE & RESPECT wha Antoinette Tuff did to save those schoolchildren, herself & the gunman.
I love & would sleep with Oprah given half the chance.
I love the show Scandal & the women who are responsible for helping it get on television (Shonda Rhimes & Judy Smith)
Considering my favorite heartthrobs are DARKSKIN curvy American BW (Bria Myles, Briana Bette & Jenny Jahaan)
I appreciate any black woman who brings positive value to my life, or make it to the MSM for positive reasons.
So, yes, I am not denying that I take glee when black women fall due to their poor choices. I wear that badge proudly.
………………………………………
Ebonymonroe says
You do not apply context so this is once again null and void, you base everything off of the gender of a race, not on a case by case basis. Please do not marry a Black woman. And, as I’ve said, tell Black women you meet, exactly what your views are, so they can bounce. If one were to stay, despite hearing your opinions on BW deserving to be beaten to death, or your opinions on rape, or the stereotypes of welfare mothers purposely becoming just that, or all single BM being welfare queens; if they stick around, well they do deserve what they get.
Whatever.
Lol
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5. @EbonyMonroe
The best thing you have said all day!
1. You overlook all the white trash & low-budget white folks who are on-par with the hoodrats & the dusty black men.
2. I am not a charity service.
Are you attractive or nah?
Are you VALUABLE or nah?
Eff your sob story, everyone HAS a sob story.
Assuming that this BS “virtue” holds up, BLACK WOMEN MAKE GREAT JUMPOFFS.
When black women reject black men for whatever reason, black men are not entitled to those black women are not interested.
I was hoping that this principle would work in reverse.
But black women in their solipsism hold themselves & black men to different standards.
But only 20% of all Americans have a college degree. So, of course the creme de la creme of BW will get chose, but eff the rest, RIGHT?
According to the 2011 U.S. Census, there are 22 million African American women in the United States.Of that 22 million, only 9% of African American women have obtained a college degree. A recent study by Howard Univeristy narrowed the number of black women with college degrees to 2,514,135.
I know this bothers you, but you don’t have to take Advanced Physics to figure this one out.
Steve Harvey is an excellent example of supporting the BLACK MEN you like. Whatever tho
Again pulling on the legacies of Harriet Tubman & the actual BW of the past who put in work, and juxtapose them with the worthless BW sucking up all the air today.
Chilli is not in the SAME league as Denzel AND if Denzel wanted to sleep with Chilli, she would drop draws. But that is neither here nor there.
Women sleep with guys who don’t look the part all day every day.
Ok
Remember a minority of BM marry out.
Some BM grow up in white suburban environments.
Some BM cannot live up to the black woman’s dating requirements. (Why are black women in denial about this)
Black women do ignore a segment of the black male populace.
It would look good, if black women got married & avoid getting their azzes beat.
Obviously WW are represented positively, but black men will take the thicker looking ones. From thick to obese.
Like you, I am an introvert, but unlike you, I have approached 1,000 plus women, mostly black women.
At least I put in the work. Most black women complain about being overlooked, but won’t stare rejection in the face.
They would rather be raped, burdened with the most devastating menstrual cycle and/or excruciating pain that childbirth brings before have to approach the men they like.
So what-ever.
Now, yes there are more quality non-BW than BW, I am glad you conceded that point. Now, tell these other fake loyalty fool to sit down or bring a better product.
European White Men & American White Men are two totally different beasts
And the population difference between American Black people (12% of the total US pop) vs British Black People (4% tops of the total UK pop)
Overall, black women here abroad, don’t get what it means to be an average BM and what our dating pool looks like, and I think you purposely play dumb.
Typical Professional Victim
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6. @EbonyMonroe.
I understand where BM are coming from as far as divorce. WM are just as vulnerable, but they have finances & are more protected.
That still does not give them a pass for poor planning, or when they pick the wrong woman to procreate with or marry.
I know BW problems as well as you do, but since their is no incentive to help fix it for them.
They are on their own. FxxK ‘Em.
And marriage does not define MEN they way it defines WOMEN.
Men need to be get better at getting women to open their legs
Racist white men hate black men because Black men have dominant genes. Survival.
They also want to maintain the unearned privilege of being white.
So they are agenda driven.
———-
Western women do a lot of FxxxING but since s*x is mostly a private affair, it is hard to quantify.
So you are a h0e until proven otherwise.
And a h0e is a woman with 3 or more partners, just in case you were keeping score.
Racist WP are poor analogies, but whatever works.
If BW were dating out more than BM. It would not be an issue.
A good comparative stat. ASIAN WOMEN. We don’t care about what the Asian man think about his women breaking their backs to be with a white man. Go figure.
I still don’t give a d@mn about Asian politics, yet, but you threw the first rock.
No matter where I meet women in America, being Attractive is KING.
Same thing if I was in the UK.
Women here don’t care about how great of an upstanding man you are. They care about if I can make her c*m.
Don’t hate the player. Hate the game.
I agree. It is nice to see women acknowledge that we have a lot of ain’t sh-t BW OUT HERE. And you spend 85% of your post apologizing for them.
Good
But you have an easier time reproducing than we do & that is a fact. So, stop tap-dancing around that.
I have seen this before. Good. I want more women to use as h0es & JUMPOFFS anyway. Because you know these women are still f–king.
……….
Then I will ride for the WM generalization of BM for the sake of this discussion. You set the framework. So you own it.
I was more right than I was wrong.
Financially sound just means he can pay his bills. Men don’t have to provide for women in 2013.
Black men mostly marry black women
AND
Black men mostly check for WOMEN of COLOR. Latina, Asian, etc. I know that is hard to fathom.
Black men mostly check for black women. But whatever.
Black feminists are some of the most useless black women around, and the only reason they have country is because of WHITE SUPREMACY.
Black feminism & White Supremacy work hand in hand.
And the black feminists today rail on Black men every chance they get, and rarely challenge white supremacy.
And are lesbians or want to marry white men aka the KneeGrow Bed Wench (NBW)
Yup
Again “black feminism” is completely useless. Keep going.
But according to @SOLESEARCH there is some MYTHICAL BLACK PATRIARCHY RULING OVER US ALL!
Okay
I will look that up.
But WHY IT IS CALLED FEMINISM? That does not make any sense.
You are trying to tell me that you pre-date WHITE FEMINISM, which could be true. But it seems like you came after white feminism.
More people please.
My book says black feminism has been around for 50 years tops
I can write an excellent mission statement on the theory of my belief and all that Jazz.
But I am more concerned about APPLICATION.
What has BLACK FEMINISM done for anybody since its inception?
What has any self identified BLACK FEMINIST, not Civil Rights Activist, passed any laws, done for ANYBODY, Black women, black men, etc.?
White FEMINISM has gotten laws passed, tangible monetary set-asides for white women, etc.?
Harriet Tubman > Bell Hooks
Two different leagues.
Last time I check, Bell Hooks was not in the Civil Rights Movement
And again, why called it feminism if black men are included. Logical fallacy anyone.
They also got stupid, and went in on BM also.
#BlackPowerIsForBlackMen
The only reason W feminists & B feminists have issues is because they are competing for the same (white) men.
Not one law passed. No monetary set-asides. Just a whole lot of b*tching & moaning.
I will rock with the Civil Rights Movement. You can have your black feminism.
That is why I asked you to look up “Social Proofing”
I don’t care how many men want a particular woman. If she is ugly, I will not be any more motivated to have her.
Women LOVE men who are valued by women, no matter the reasoning. Married Men do very well with single women.
This is a VERY CORE tenet of Game & Evolutionary Psychology
This is not the only black blog tho. And I love that response.
1. Black women & black men from age 15 – 60 have similar population numbers. I ran the 2010 census MYSELF.
After 60, black men start dying off, which creates the imbalance. So, your numbers are off right there.
2. You don’t account for the single mothers, the fat women, the women with no college degree (91%).
I say all that to say this. Quality BM & BW even themselves out.
Janky BM & BW even themselves out.
And then you have non-BM on an international level.
BLACK WOMEN are NOT on a NO-FLY list.
If you cannot find a husband out of 3 Billion men as a privilege Western Woman. You ain’t sh-t.
3. Also let us say that there are 10 BW & 10 BM are in a room.
Those 10 BW will fight for 2 out of 10 of those BM & ignore the rest.
And that gets played out in America with the total black population.
There are unattractive BM being ignored daily, and then BW turning around talking about they cannot find a man.
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7. @EbonyMonroe
I understand. Walk away when necessary. I didn’t mean to hold you up.
I know, but I am telling you based on countless conversations with black women, someone who actually put the pieces together.
You don’t want to concede to this, because it makes you look bad, and you don’t want to take collective responsibility. You just have to use simple DEDUCTIVE REASONING.
You wanna put your head in the sand.
Whatever.
Single Mother
Fat
Attitudinal
Uneducated
We can go there on you as well.
Look how far we had to go for you to partly concede that BW suck at picking suitable men for the long-term.
Every BW I had a conversation about this topic DOES THE MEAN White Man Shuffle.
You cannot say their are no good black men.
You cannot say all the good black men are with white men.
You are gonna have to EAT that.
You do not prioritize dating like that to make that claim.
It takes time, energy, skill. Most black women value other things rather then checking for a man.
Because truth be told, you think that men will drop of the sky, being that you are in your s-xual prime.
Black women ain’t about to be REAL feminists.
I agree with all of that. Everybody got a sob. Especially BW. Make better choices. You have agency. Use it wisely.
No excuses. I want my women that I will be investing in to have close to NO partners.
Marriage is not the end all be all for men. Getting consistent p-ssy is. Accumulating WEALTH FOR children is.
Only low-value men benefit from marriage the most.
Marriage is not a priority for BW, that is why they are not married. End. Of.
It is not that complicated.
Black women do not want it bad enough. You just sent me an article confirming.
Men have a little to nothing to do with that.
And you have an untapped international community of men that y’all refuse to venture out to. C’mon son.
Those racism WW are about to die out. And I have resigned my fate in this WHITE SUPREMACIST climate. It is what it is.
I will take my chances with the LAW , then having to deal with the fake loyalty of BW.
Black men will take p-ssy anyway they can get it. And I do not blame them.
Black women have a limited understanding how our s-xuality work. And y’all continue to overlook all the men who don’t get their s-xual needs met (because women of any race getting s-x is NOT that hard) and then expect them to act rationally when WHITE WOMEN throw them a bone.
You say you understand @EbonyMonroe. But not really.
I never said I would not challenge WS. However, it requires a whole group acting in concert. We do not have the numbers.
Stop acting I can go on a blog and debate white supremacist and the problem can go away.
I will do my part, but it will only do so much.
Black men want fit women ideally, but we sleep with fat women affirming their existence.
If black men avoided overweight women like the plague, they would get it together, quick fast & in a hurry.
Social construct be d@mned.
Let us be real.
Broke men are starved for p-ssy tho.
But black men as detrimental of our problems are. We rarely complain.
YOU, HOWEVER
http://m.essence.com/2013/04/18/emotional-nudity-i-didn’t-give-black-men-they-gave-me/
Obese black woman wonders by black men are not checking for her.
And then have the nerve to bash black men who are the most liberal when it comes to dealing women & weight.
They are not dying fast enough.
I am marrying a black woman, and then I am going to rail on black women harder.
What women want in men is a bomb azz personality, decent social skills, and a little bit of money.
Stamina in s-x might be a real issue tho.
I apologize. I DID know that.
Ever since the American government has been giving BW welfare, BW have been disrespecting BM ever since. Before that, BW have been in pocket.
I cannot WAIT for the welfare for BW to end. We need a resolution. We need a cleansing.
I support this.
Isn’t amazing how BW have full oversight of black sons, but black sons end up dating interracial or grow up to DESPISE BW.
Hmmmmmmmm
Choosing better men might not be the easiest thing in the world. But it is DOABLE.
But then again, do BW know what they are doing.
hmmmmmm.
Last time I checked only 28% of black women are currently married. But whatever.
Cool beans
Young BW need to be educated by healthy, adjusted older BW about what Men value PERIOD. And not waste their youth on BS.
The Past =/= The Future
Marriage ain’t gon be poppin’ like that. Too much free s-x. And BM money ain’t that solid.
9% of black women have a college degree.
I am not marrying a white woman. And I will help black men get their act together. No worries.
That’s right!
Agreed!!!
I know.
No excuses
You know that article made you look worse. And you have very little excuse.
Because white men are not going to let you take their money like that.
And if you marriage is failing, there is NO ONE you can run to. You are going to have to take that abuse & those n-ggerb-tches.
Also y’all don’t get married like that to WM in the state. Not a common sight. You better stay together.
I already told BW to avoid BM.
Why not WW?
That is exactly how BLACK FEMINISTS FEEL.
THEY NEED the white male power structure to keep whatever bullsh-t privileges or to AT least keep BM on their toes.
That is why I celebrate when the EBT cards stop working. It gets REAL then.
Black women do snitch on BM for reward money.
http://www.wnem.com/story/19722153/accused-cop-killers-girlfriend-gets-reward-money
It was a BLACK WOMAN who tried to assassinate Dr King first.
Izola Curry
http://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/local/The-Day-Martin-Luther-King-Jr-Was-Stabbed-in-Harlem-81964952.html
And what do you think @GOPBlackChick Crystal Wright does for pay?
BLACK WOMEN DON’T AID & ABET WHITE SUPREMACY???
What-ever!
Thank you
I am NOT a stat nerd. I am a vibe, energy type. I like numbers. But not like that.
Still pulling on our ancestor’s legacy.
And the BW Bashers will be fine.
I will see to it.
Whew. That was long.
But it was fun.
Thanks for playing.
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@EbonyMonroe
Very familiar with Janks Morton, bless that brothers.
I really like the Dallas News article.
See you soon.
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Adonis:
reading your dialog with Ebony-Monroe has been delicious, entertaining and informative. ^_^
Keep on keeping on, Brotha!
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@sondis
I know I wasn’t the ONLY one ,
And we are STILL going.
Very informative.
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So, @ebonymonroe & @Sondis
I ran that domestic violence article I the DallasNews for my facebook brethren.
These kneegrows are cold-blooded.
https://www.facebook.com/groups/172277012812054/permalink/658780047495079/
Check for updates, it gets more fun.
Now, I believe in PICKING THE RIGHT GIRL.
And then being a man with everything in order. Mind, Money, Spirit, to minimize my chances of being compelled to kill this girl.
Because I don’t like hitting anybody personally.
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@Ebonymonroe- very nice commentary #Teamebonymonroe #yougogurl #wavingmyfuneralchurchfan 😀
@phoebeprunelleo- Re: gay fictional characters, than Bert&Ernie and Batman&Robin are gay as well, can definitely see that about Peppermint Patty, what about that girl in the Scooby Doo cartoons that wore glasses.
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Velma from Scooby Doo i don’t think was gay, as it was later revealed she had a thing for Shaggy…
Pattie or Patty (whichever) wore ambiguous looking clothes, Marcie called her “sir” and Snoopy never saw fit to really cooperate with her in being at her house at night to look after things while her father was at work. Although Snoopy seemed to do whatever Lucy or Sally asked.
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@Ebonymonroe and Adonis,
Great back and forth, good points on both sides though I must admit I underestimated Adonis at first (sorry brother!) as he has more than held his own.
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Gay fictional cartoon characters? you people are sick! @ : o O ) >
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@KS
We lose battles, NOT because we don’t have the talent, but we under-estimate our opponent.
I’ll take it
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Folks, I came across this important information about the side effects of certain medication. Please read it for your health!
Prescription Drugs & Side Effects
A woman asks her husband at breakfast time,
“Would you like some bacon and eggs, a slice of toast, and maybe some grapefruit juice and coffee?”
He declines. “Thanks for asking, but, I’m not hungry right now. “It’s this Viagra,” he says. “It’s really taken the edge off my appetite.”
At lunchtime, she asks him if he’d like something. “How about a bowl of soup, homemade muffins, or a cheese sandwich?”
He declines.
“The Viagra,” he says, “really trashes my desire for food.”
Come dinner time, she asks if he wants anything to eat. “Would you like a juicy rib eye steak and some scrumptious apple pie? Or maybe a rotisserie chicken or tasty stir fry?”
He declines again. “No,” he says, “it’s got to be the Viagra. I’m still not hungry.”
“Well,” she says, “Would you mind letting me up? I’m starving
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Batman and Robin?!
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Yeah, I always wondered about Thelma and Peppermint Patty. LOL!
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Batman and Robin always struck me as a father and son duo.
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@ Adonis
Adonis said
And you don’t highlight, BLACK FEMALE AGENCY. BLACK WOMEN HAVE PREFERENCES TOO.
But a great response tho.
Ebonymonroe says
“O, wiiy fank-u docta.” You allude to the notion that BW are perfectly happy with men who suffer from obesity, while you allude to the idea that BW only like attractive men. You allude to the notion that BW are perfectly happy with old men, though old if never considered the standard of “physical attractiveness” in the Western world. You allude to the notion that BW only like men without good characters and financial stability, while you allude to BW making financial stability a necessity? I can tell you, from my own experience, growing up, the guys in my neighborhood much preferred the girls with all the mouth, who would get in their faces, and curse and drink like sailors. Dudes liked how we looked, but not how girls like me were. The girls like myself who were polite, shy, quite and respectful were not all the rage. I think it’s safe to say, that during youth, both BM and BW, just like all other young people, tend to check for the bad boys and the bad girls, until they’re ready to settle down. This is very much a two way street, and not limited to one race. You’re also dealing with numbers, when it comes to BW vs. non BW. Because BW are a greater minority; this can account for finding greater quality among “others” because there are simply more of them.
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Ebonymonroe @Adonis
And yes, if BW turn down advances from non BM, which is a complaint I’ve heard from non BM, then yes, I personally, would define it as loyalty.
……………………………………………………………………
Adonis @Ebonymonroe
“I define it as lack of attraction & shared culture. If the incentive and OPTION to date out was there, most BW would do it.”
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Ebonymonroe @Adonis
I don’t think that’s true at all. Most BW would confess to finding Brad Pitt, or Keanu Reeves, or George Clooney, very attractive. But your opinion about OPTIONS fits into my opinion regarding LOYALTY. BM complain about BW in the UK, just as much as they do in the US, the only difference here, is that many BW do hop the fence and settle down with non BM. I know BW have many opportunities to be with non Black men in the US, I saw it myself when I lived there. But I saw BW repeatedly turn down non BM. That’s generally what I mean about loyalty. I wouldn’t define it as loyalty if there were no other options, because then that would mean it is a matter of not having a choice. Although, as I have already said, I think that is beginning to change. The culture part is non applicable, because BM do not share the same culture as non BW, but it is not a problem. Culture is a difference, but not necessarily a barrier.
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Adonis said
Basically, black women need to date out more, and be happy.
You have always had access to non-BM. Knock yourself out
Ebonymonroe says
Hey, you don’t need to tell us that in the UK, more than 1/3 of us already do, silly billy. But on a serious note, I have registered what you’re saying. You’re saying “don’t bug me about being with non BW because this is what I want, this is my best option and I don’t want to have to take rubbish about it,” and you’re saying “we are happy for you to go away, we don’t want you, so please feel free.” I understand and you won’t hear anymore mentions of it from me.
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Ebonymonroe @Adonis
No, I wouldn’t see any BM as doing a BW a favor, by entertaining her. They should both be humbled and flattered that someone is romantically interested; that would be the honorable reaction, in my opinion.
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Adonis @Ebonymonroe
The biggest issue with women in America, in general is that they don’t know “their place.” And I do not mean that in the “barefoot & pregnant” sense.
They don’t understand the difference between sex & long-term commitment.
They don’t know the kind of men they can reasonably get to commit to them.
They think they can “have it all” without any sort of sacrifice.
They think men will accept sluts as wives (which happens but is rare)
……………………………………………………………….
Ebonymonroe @Adonis
First of all, a lot of BM go crazy over the likes of Kim Kardashian, so it could be said that many of these standards go out the window for non BW. ………………………………………………………………………………………
Adonis said
Let us go with that. Let us say that black men hold non-black women do a different standard.
Black men need to be checked on that. By who, who knows. I don’t defend that.
Ebonymonroe says
When I ask why WW/BM marriages don’t last you say finances/economics. When I speak of the social constructs (which includes finances/economics/) that causes problems for BM/BW, you say I’m painting BW as victims. When you stereotype all BW as orchestrating their own problems, like raging hedonists, I explain the social constructs that play such a huge part in it, but you don’t give BW the benefit of the doubt, you don’t take the social constructs into consideration, you says I’m giving BW a monolithic victim narrative. When I express the social constructs that plague BM/BW you say the men and the women are just no good, that I’m making excuses. You need to check yourself, because you did a round about, went in on BW/BM and the complexities of their domesticity, and then simplified WW/BM problems down to a social construct. Very, very bad move man. Bad taste, very bad.
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Ebonymonroe @Adonis
Secondly, I cannot give a serious response to the claim that most—all American women are promiscuous.
………………………………………………………………………………………..
Adonis @Ebonymonroe
It is true more than it is not. Play dumb all you want.
……………………………………………………………………………..
Ebonymonroe says
Since you probably haven’t met even 20% of American women, but are comfortable applying your misogynistic stereotype to all of them, I suppose we can rely on racist WP and their thoughts on BM, even though they haven’t met every BM in America; on that basis, their truth is just a true as yours. Either that, or neither is.
………………………………………………………………………………..
Ebonymonroe @Adonis
You should check aids stats because they have been affecting men who look like yourself the most, I’m not being rude, but you’re throwing rocks from a glass house with this us/everyone else thing.
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Adonis @Ebonymonroe
Men & women are different, and held to different value systems.
When men lose out, no one bats an eye.
When women are benefit, no one bats an eye.
Switch these two scenario, we are OUTRAGED.
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Ebonymonroe says
Adonis, this has nothing to do with heterosexual AA men being at the top of the list for so long. You’re tap dancing like Fred Astaire. God willing, that stat isn’t true anymore because I haven’t checked it in a long time. I do know BW’s are dropping. Rocks…. Glass house.
………………………………………………………………………………..
Ebonymonroe @Adonis
You feel a certain disdain for BW, you feel a certain disdain for American women, you never know, not to be rude or anything, but maybe the problem is YOU.
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Adonis said
I know, I have to play the Game. And I will. F–k honesty, character & virtue.
Ebonymonroe says
I’m not sure what this means. If it means what I think it means, you’re certainly not going to find a good wife that way. Why don’t you try going to new places. Go look for a woman at church, not in the club.
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Ebonymonroe @Adonis
Just like how you said to one of the women on here, that they shouldn’t see THEIR bad experiences as a representation of all BM, so you should take your own advice and stop applying YOUR BAD CHOICES IN WOMEN, to a representation of all African American and/or all American women. ……………………………………………………………………………………………
Adonis said
I acknowledge that their are great black women & American Women out there.
I have made the argument, that these women are fine. But @sharina with no real rebuttal, tells us different.
Ebonymonroe says
Well you seem to mock BW when they say they care and take an obvious interest in the welfare of BM. But if this is generally true, I’m glad to hear it.
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Ebonymonroe @Adonis
What you do with that, is neither here or there, but you would be more credible by living by your own advice.
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Adonis said
And I do.
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Ebonymonroe @Adonis
Lastly, men are usually more promiscuous than women are, because it is more socially acceptable,
…………………………………………………………………………………
Adonis said
It also takes work to be a male wh0re. For women they just have to open their legs, and a man somewhere will put something in there.
Ebonymonroe says
I actually found the first part funny, and the last part revolting. Well, you’ve got a b()tthole, in certain places, you wouldn’t have to do much for someone to put something in there. But on a serious note, male wh0res pay later in life, because they end up with a bunch of kids by different women, or an std, or decent women won’t mess with them because of the reputation. Just be patient like we have to be. We don’t turn 18 and just get married anymore you know. Our wait time takes more work.
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Ebonymonroe @Adonis
and there was a recent study that found that BW are no longer as interested in marriage as BM are, so maybe women are just not wrapped up in being someone’s wife anymore.
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Adonis said
But black women are upset when a black men dates & marries out. Whatever.
Ebonymonroe says
I believe it to be an ever increasing minority of women in America. And the study didn’t say “no BW want marriage,” it just found that through conducting a survery, that BW seem to be less interested than BM. But apparently this is the trend among all genders of all races. Women are not as into it anymore. Here’s the link…
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Ebonymonroe @Adonis
Maybe they just want to use your body and leave the money by the bedside table. But don’t let them, baby, don’t let those evil girls take advantage of your body. They’ll put you to sleep and in the morning, when you wake up, you’ll feel dirty. You’re worth so much more. But you can get over this, you’re going to pull through just fine. You’re more than your body. It’s okay.
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Adonis said
LOL. What-ever.
Ebonymonroe says
You could be like Eddie Murphy in “Boomerang” with Robin Givens. But don’t worry, remember it ended well, he got Halle’s character who was a sweet girl, after he learned to calm down his doggish ways. (Hint, hint.) Although my comparing a playa to someone who comes across as a psychopath, is an extremely optimistic outlook.
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Ebonymonroe @Adonis
I am unable to subscribe to any position regarding “what kind of BM most—all BW want,” as I have not met every BW in America or the UK. It would be silly to make such a generalization on a blog where we spend so much time condemning generalizations.
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Adonis @Ebonymonroe
“All generalizations mean that assertion in question is TRUE more than it is unTRUE.”
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Ebonymonroe @Adonis
White people once believed that Africans are subhuman, because they look different. Just because something is widely circulated, doesn’t make it anymore true. I hope you don’t ever complain about racism, you’re backing yourself into a corner with these generalizations. You better be okay with them, when they are applied to you, as a Black man.
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Adonis said
Some generalization are BS. Some generalizations have merit.
Obviously, white supremacists have agendas, so they should be not taken seriously.
Ebonymonroe says
No, you can’t pick and choose generalizations when they are all founded on opinions. A WM could get robbed by a BM after spending a lifetime hearing anti BM propaganda through the American media. His experience would confirm it as true. The media says it’s true, so it could be founded on truth by that standard. But of course, they don’t tell you that the census says BM don’t commit the most crimes, they just choose to pick up every incident of a BM doing something bad, to strengthen the agenda of their propaganda. Now if experience came and confirmed it for the hypothetical WM, does it make it true? No, he would have just had a bad experience. Even if he has multiple experiences, it still wouldn’t make it true for all 15-20 million AAM living in America. Either both have merit, or none of them do, because they’re both conceived using the same methods of generalizing. If White supremacist hatred of BP is founded on a grand agenda, but your hatred for BW is for fun, it doesn’t make your hatred benign, hatred is hatred.
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Adonis @Ebonymonroe
The point that you & other BW like to avoid is that BW like the same type of men, which are usually in short-supply. So a lot of you man-share. Knowingly & unknowingly. The former is usually the case. But women play dumb
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Ebonymonroe says
Where are the stats to back this up. Your idea is true for men and women in general regardless of race. How many men has Jennifer Lopez had? I’ll wait, you’ll need a minute to count. What about Elizabeth Taylor? Exactly. Unless one settles down and stays settled down, attractive individuals will usually have a little of admirers if they so choose. It’s just the way it is.
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Ebonymonroe @Adonis
You’re completely out of your mind, but it’s funny. Okay Adonis, since I’m a Black woman, and my best friend is a Black woman, what is my type, and what is her type? Go on, since you know us so well?
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Adonis said
Strong social skills
Financially sound
Have decent to great sex skills
Masculine
Lean & muscular, broad shoulders, tight hips.
Ebonymonroe says
Lol, at your boldness with this. No to strong social skills, medium is fine, as long as he’s articulate, I’ve always gone for introverts. No to financially sound, I don’t mind being the biggest breadwinner, I just think you should do your calling, then you’ll be happy; that could be anything from a mechanic to a doctor. For the next, as long as we can listen and learn and care about trying to meet each others’ needs that can be learned. As long as he enjoys it, as the only thing I couldn’t deal with is a low sex drive. Masculine: I like pretty, I like masculine. I like it from Prince in the 80′s, to Larenz Tate, to a fat BM who looks like a lumberjack. For body type, I’m open minded, but I do tend to prefer men who are lean (slim, rangy), and muscular with broad shoulders and tight hips. But I wouldn’t overlook a good looking guy who is a fattyman. When Ice Cube’s bottocks were squeezed in “Next Friday″ I certainly didn’t complain, though I tend to go for a frame with tight buttocks, I’m open minded, I could appreciate it. It’s about character. Men can become attractive just through character. Women like looks, we don’t fall in love with them the way men do.
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Ebonymonroe @Adonis
To answer your last point about a sudden attraction that stems from a BM having a WW on his arm, I don’t think that’s the case, I think it’s the statistics that keep being circulated about BM marrying out the most, so when BW encounter these couples, it’s like confirmation, and that’s where the slight discomfort comes from. This, however, is simply my perspective.
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Adonis @Ebonymonroe
Google “Social Proofing” and check out the romantic implications.
The thing that BW do not want to admit is that they look up to white women.
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If you are struggling in romantic relationships with BW, statements like this will not help. This is EXTREMELY offensive. I have already explained why I believe BW turn their heads and notice BM who are with WW, so I won’t repeat that. It could be said that BM look up to WM and that’s why they often want what they have: WW and European looking Hispanic women, but that’s neither here nor there. I can’t think of a single BW who looks up to WW. When WW like Miley Cyrus are using BW as stage props, who’s the first to call her out? BW. When people give daps to women like Madonna, and she gets a pass for calling promiscuity “female empowerment” as a WW, who rolls their eyes? BW. When she’s appropriating Black culture, and promoting some pseudo sympathy at the plight of the Black community, by making out with a Black Jesus, and falling into the arms of a Black choir, made up of large, mammy looking Black women, as the angelic WW, failing to see the racial overtones in much of her work, such as, referring to her Black/minority dancers as “cripples she collects,” in one of her documentaries, who calls her out? BW. I really don’t know any BW who look up to WW. The only thing I’ve ever seen BW do, is try to physically emulate a Eurocentric beauty standard to appease men, including their own.
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Adonis said
I am glad you admit that BW do what to be like WW.
Ebonymonroe says
NO! I admitted BM go after non BW so BW try to appease them by looking like non BW. BW do not enjoy being made to feel that their natural hair texture is ugly, or that their complexion is ugly.
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Adonis said
Smart BW call it out. LOUD minority
Ebonymonroe says
The BW who called it out are Black feminists who are always challenging White feminists, As the two movements have nothing to do with one another. BW were fighting WM and WW, while standing beside BM as African Americans, while fighting for their rights as women in America.
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Adonis said
And black feminist want to identify with white feminists.
Ebonymonroe says
Black feminism, in the 70′s, was a reaction to White feminism, after White feminism began trying to lure Black women in for the sake of attaching itself to the recent social perception of that time, “the concept that Black oppression was credible;” through Black women, in order to legitimize White feminism. But instead, Black feminism, which refused to align with White feminism, choosing instead to create its own independent discourse, immediately set about attacking White feminist ideas, (the fact that their ideas were only relevant for middle class White women), and Black feminism’s gripe over the White feminist promotional campaign tactic of projecting the idea that their struggles were equal to the oppressions of the Black community. Before “third world feminism,” or any other forms of feminism, adopted by women of other races and nationalities, Black feminism was actually the very first to reject buying into the narrative that its own male counterpart is the source of oppression.
White middle class feminists tried to market their fight with “their men,” as something that was equal to the sufferings of African Americans, but then, and to this very day, White women are above the social hierarchy of men of color, this is a fact. WW get paid more than BM do, in the same positions.
Black women, have been vulnerable on three grounds, one because of race, two because of gender, and three because of the judicial, social, psychological and economic oppression of “our men,” our fathers, Grandfathers, brothers, uncles, cousins, and our husbands. This vulnerability is completely unique to the Black community, and contrary to political “women’s lib” propaganda, and pop culture belief, we do not, and never have had anything in common with the complaints that were voiced by the White feminist movement.
One key example of this is jobs. We always worked–as maids and servants. In the nuclear Black family, the woman was generally the breadwinner. In no way did we need to fight to be able to be co-breadwinners. The original economic struggle for the Black family unit was about securing well paying jobs for Black men, as well as better wages for Black women, along with more access to education for both.
It is this full scale, relentless pressure cooker that has morphed the nuclear Black family unit into a vulnerable martriarchal set up.
And since race has also been the determining factor of class, I would certainly side with the theory…excuse me…the FACT that race, is over all, the most systemic trigger for social oppression above the three. The oppressions suffered because of gender and class in this group (people of color, and more than any other, the Black community,) are an overlapping disadvantage that is already in place…because of race.
As far as Black feminism, there seems to be a lot of misunderstanding about its roots and what it’s about. The origins of Black feminism was called “The new Negro women movement,” that came about during the Marcus Garvey era, and was a part of “The new Negro movement.” It was created by BM and BW
The new Negro movement.
With its race-conscious and class-conscious demands for political equality, an end to segregation and lynching as well as calls for armed self-defense when appropriate. In 1916–17, Hubert Harrison founded the New Negro Movement. Harrison is called the “father of Harlem Radicalism.” The term “New Negro” inspired a wide variety of responses from its diverse participants and promoters. A militant African American editor indicated in 1920 how this “new line of thought, a new method of approach” included the possibility that “the intrinsic standard of Beauty and aesthetics does not rest in the white race” and that “a new racial love, respect and consciousness may be created.” It was felt that African Americans were poised to assert their own agency in culture and politics instead of just remaining a “problem” or “formula” for others to debate about.
The New Negroes of the 1920s, the “talented tenth,” included poets, novelists and Blues singers creating their art out of Negro folk heritage and history; black political leaders fighting against corruption and for expanded opportunities for African Americans; businessmen working toward the possibilities of a “black metropolis” and Garveyites dreaming of a homeland in Africa. All of them shared in their desire to shed the image of servility and inferiority of the shuffling “Old Negro” and achieve a new image of pride and dignity.The latter era of Black feminism was very similar to the Black liberation concept of “The new Negro women movement.”
Black feminism is defined as.
“Black feminism is not radical White feminism, Black feminism does not focus on competing with men, its focus is reconciling all the atrocities that have been imposed on the Black community. Feminism is the study of women and the female experience, Black feminism is the study of the Black female experience, our history and what we can do to improve the quality of life for ourselves and our communities, but the difference between White feminism and Black feminism is that Black feminism draws from Black liberation in that it demands the community to critically engage with our identity, to separate from colonialized identity dictatorship, and that includes the digestion of media representations of self, for the sake of the whole, not just Black women. One example of the discourse of Black feminism is poverty: Black feminism engages the origins of poverty, assesses how we can independently restructure a system for the empowerment of the Black community. It’s focused on the reconciling of Black families, Black marriage and parenthood. Black feminism is focused on reconciling with our own culture (Black liberation,) to empower our own community. Black feminism is a discourse that seeks to work to restructure the community in a way that benefits the entire Black community and to disengage with White hegemony, and that includes disconnecting with the internalizing of racism (neo racism, Black on Black,) and mimicking White misogyny (and even misandry), as it theorizes that both the historical, and the present system of White patriarchy is just as harmful to Black males as well as Black women and the community as a whole. Black feminism is Black women working with Black men for Black liberation. Black feminism recognizes the intersectionality of oppression, the oppression of Black men because of race, the oppression of Black women because of race and gender, and the oppression of the Black community because of pervasive poverty, and therefore, issues relating to class.”
In ancient Africa, we had a hierarchy of honor and respect. But we differed from White society in that we were more rooted in the concept of village/community/family life. There were eras (like the hunting era,) where women stayed at home with the children and the men went to gather food. And there were eras (like the planting era,) where men stayed at home with the children and the women were the food gatherers. There were many eras in African family life in terms of how it was structured in order for family life to be as productive as possible, but we never had the gender issues and gender hatred that White society came to know.
While these issues have not stopped White supremacy, Black feminism and Black liberation as a whole, theorizes that the attempts to mimic White society, have caused more disunity, oppression and poverty than benefit for the Black community. Black feminism is rooted in Black liberation. One of the most well known Black feminists, Bell Hooks, was one of the first feminists to insist that men’s rights, particularly Black men’s rights be addressed. Black feminism was the first form of feminism to refuse to buy into the narrative that its male counterpart was the source of oppression and the first to include its own men in the narrative of “the oppressed.” Black feminism is essentially Black women using their voices to speak out for the community as a whole. When you discredit Black feminism you discredit celebrated examples in Black feminism such as Bell Hooks (who has always been vocal for Black men,) all the way to Harriet Tubman. It would be a shame to downplay the contributions of these Black women.
White women sought to mimick the Black movement to validate their plight as women, Black feminism has always distanced itself from White feminism. Go to twitter and check #solidarityisforwhitewomen It was a huge twitter storm where Black women began attacking the hypocrisy of White feminists and voicing the enminity between Black feminism and White feminism. No, BW do not want to be White feminists. The credible academic discourse of your story as a Black man in America, could come from the hands of a Black feminist. The social protests for you across America could come from a Black feminists/womanist. You indirectly allude to being concerned about hyper-masculinity (violent, hyper-sexual, child abandoning men), in the community, as well as BW allowing themselves to sexually exploited by not valuing their bodies; which leads to OOW children. Well, Black feminists have been crying out about this, possibly before you and I were born.
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Adonis said
“So, in their eyes, if a particular white woman is checking for a black male, then that black male is more attractive because he has that white woman on his arm.
But if he was alone, he would be invisible to said black woman”
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Ebonymonroe said
See above
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Adonis said
You are in denial
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Ebonymonroe says
I’ve answered this. I spoke on confirmation. People always want what they can’t have. Women tend to find men more attractive when they’re with someone, men do the same with women. We’re social beings, and our sense of value is probably the same. When someone has something and enjoys it, all of a sudden you want it, too. Women are just as competitive as men, BW and WW are natural enemies, add the confirmation theory; it’s pretty easy to see how BW will notice a BM with a WW more.
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Ebonymonroe @Adonis
I must add that over the last few years, I’ve heard the reactions from BW change. BW tend to come from the position of “I don’t mind if BM are with non BW, as long as you’re not spewing hatred of BW to justify it. Just leave us out of it.”
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Adonis said
“I have heard that too. But anytime IR dating is brought up with black women on a relevant blog, the comment section blows up. Case & Point. This thread. So, it is deeper than a “hatred for BW. It still rubs a lot of BW the wrong way. And it should not”
Ebonymonroe says
Testing how BW feel about BM with non BW via a blog is too small of a sample to say. It’s not credible. I saw on another website, made up mostly of AAW, a BM started taunting them about BM marrying out, they said they don’t care, and started mocking the lack of response, writing about “crickets.” If they’re not by now, they’ll get used to it.
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Ebonymonroe @Adonis
Do you understand that BW outnumber BM? Do you understand that BM marry out the most? Do you understand that 1 in 3 BM have served time, meaning they will struggle to find employment? Do you understand that when women raise you, live in a world where they are constantly told they’re the least beautiful as the antithesis of WW, go marching for you when things hit the fan, raise your children, desire you, write love songs about you, like Angie Stone’s “Brotha,” and have a deep affection for you as “their men,” why it may sting when you turn around and choose non BW over them more than any other group of males choose other women over their own? There is no longer enough AAM for AAW, this is just fact. So why wouldn’t it matter. I personally think BW should just put it to bed, but I understand where they’re coming from. There are even angry BW posters on this thread, who have gotten angry over the emotional outbursts of BW complaining about BM not reciprocating, which many BW now find embarrassing. But if you have had a historical amount of trauma as a group, if you’ve fought, marched, and stood with your men, trying to find a better quality of life, as a group, and then your men become the statistic that jumps ship the most for the women who oppressed them, and still oppress them in a court of law today, you have to see how that stings. Other than that, I’ve answered this question. See my last post to you.
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Adonis said
Again, Black women have preferences, and sometimes black men get rejected, so if I don’t agree with that there is not enough black men to go around.
But there are not enough ATTRACTIVE BLACK MEN TO GO AROUND.
Ebonymonroe says
Mathematically, no, there are roughly 1 million more AAW than there are AAM. Bring in the other factors and it becomes all the more valid. But I get what you’re saying. You’re not seeing BW making the effort to find a suitable mate, and valuing the prospect of marriage. I hate to say it, but young men and women are out of control. Look at shows like the “Jersey Shore,” artists like “Rihanna.” Don’t go to the latest nightclub looking for a wife dancing to Lil Wayne, go to Jazz spots, Neo soul clubs, church, neighborhood barbeques. Go to classy places to find class… But trust me, we contend with finding a suitable mate with class, just as much.
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Ebonymonroe @Adonis
Fat: Black men, Black women, Hispanic men, and Hispanic women, are leading in obesity in the UK. This is an economic problem. Cats argue that sistas are fat, but both Black and Hispanic men and women, dominate in obesity in the US due to a lack of healthy nutrition, due to the cost of an organic diet vs. the low cost of GM foods.
When push comes to shove, Black men and women are fat in the US
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Adonis said
Agreed. But weight affects BW more than BM. Fat BM are not an issue with BW, but fat BW are problematic for BM.
Ebonymonroe says
Obesity will always be more prevalent in the female counterpart, because women store more body fat. And, no, you have said yourself that BW only want “attractive BM.” Being fat is not usually considered “attractive.” In the Caribbean community, a lot of men like fat women, I’m thick, but because I have a small waist, I would be considered too small for these men, so, no I would not say you know what every BM feels about fat women, to be able to speak for all of them. Secondly, if you were a well adjusted human being, you could actually marry a BW, and bring home a paycheck to put organic fruits, vegetables, non processed brown carbs, organic meats, free range poulty, and raw unprocessed dairy, on the kitchen table. You could even buy a water filter, so your family isn’t consuming chlorine, in their drinking water. You could stock a room in your home with free weight equipment, to build healthy muscle, which burns fat, and purchase cardio and stretch exercise DVD’s, to exercise the heart, burn calories, and keep fit. You could both help towards pilates lessons, to stay flexible and to work on your posture, for the betterment of your bodies, and your digestive systems. But, until you’re in a home helping, there’s not much you can say, cause as sistas used to sing in the 80′s, ain’t nothing going on but the rent.
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Adonis said
BW are more outraged with BM who date out.
Ebonymonroe says
I went over to Lipstickalley, which is regarded as one of the most ratchet US BW websites. They don’t seem to care; the BW I know don’t seem to care. Maybe you need to hang around some different BW. Or tell them to shut up, that you don’t want them; and I’m sure they’ll stop bothering you, out of dignity.
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Adonis said
Black men who are boring.
Black men who lack finances (when it is convenient)
Ebonymonre says
I make more money in my profession than my old man does, in his, my sister makes more money than her husband, because she has a degree and he’s blue collar; my eldest sister made more money than her husband for a long time. I’m not hurting for money, so as long as a dude has some direction on what he wants to do with his life, in terms of being a productive member of society, as a Black feminist/womanist, I believe in differences between men and women, and I believe in differences in the priorities of our needs. But, other than that, if a dude wanted to be a stay at home dad, one day, if that makes him happy, since I don’t believe in roles, then I’d be cool with it . Relationships are about compromise, and all people vary; once again, you cannot say what all BW want from BM, because you don’t know every BW in America. Secondly, WW are not checking for you, to marry you in droves until you hit the 100,000 mark, so it’s us who are here when you’re broke and ashy, nobody else. And the definition of boring is relative from person to person. My old man’s laid back, he’s the homebody, I like to go out. He’s outspoken, I tend to be quite. We’re both pretty boring when it comes to it, but we enjoy each other.
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I had to put them into three full posts, as they’re too long. Adonis, you’re gonna have to wait. Two of the posts are in moderation. Abagond, other than the three posts of mine today. You can delete all my other posts in the open thread. As I’ve said, the typing was butchered. In case you get confused @Abagond
The first post to keep= on Sun 20 Oct 2013 at 16:38:03
The second post to keep= on Sun 20 Oct 2013 at 16:45:05
The third post to keep= on Sun 20 Oct 2013 at 16:46:00
Thanks
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@EbonyMonroe
I was not rushing you.
But your disorganization puts a damper on your greatness, that is why I use the BLOCKQUOTE, BOLD & ITALICS liberally.
Also, put your writing in some type of writing program, so you will not lose your work. I have made that mistake years ago.
I know you are smart, so I will leave you be for the rest.
Presentation, unfortunately matters.
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@Adonis
I’ve only just began reading your responses, and I just wanted to say that, we are, for the most part, in agreement.
It is my understanding that
1. You’re seeing behaviors among BW, in your neck of the woods, that make finding a BW with the reasonable qualities that any man would require in a wife, difficult. And that you feel these patterns of behavior, are quite possibly going on All across America, causing the level of OOW children rate, in Black America, to be as high as it is.
And 2. As women, BW have the power, as those who bring forth the next generation, to make sure they’re giving their children the best possible start in life, by being cautious and settling down into stable family units, before they have children. You feel this power BW have, can and does shape many of the problems the Black community, and even BW, later have to suffer in.
I agree. I haven’t been to America in a long, long time. I have no idea what’s going on over there. I suppose, as a BW, I’m more inclined to defend BW, because I’ve encountered ratchet BM, as a heterosexual BW, who’s dealt with BM. But, you, as a BM, will be more inclined to defend BM, because as a heterosexual BM, you’ve encountered plenty of ratchet BW. So you know it’s not just down to BM, as many people like to believe.
When I was in America, not every BM I encountered, but many of them were some of the most impressive brothas I’d ever come across. I know many BW in the UK who would gladly swap places with many of the sistas over there. I know there are great BW over there, I don’t understand why you guys are finding it so hard to find one another. I will say this about “the good guy thing.” I think a lot of “good guys” don’t understand how important it is to play hard to get. You don’t wanna be too nice, and too available. I had to teach my stepbrothers this. Men and women both respond to mystery; you have to play it nonchalant in the beginning, it shouldn’t be that way, but it is. I don’t know if that will help anyone, but who knows?
I just wanted to add this, because after reading your opening responses, my position has somewhat softened towards you, after gaining a better understanding of where you’re coming from, and the source of your frustration. Although, perhaps when I scroll down, I’ll regret that. Lol. But for now, for the most part, we are in agreement.
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@ Adonis
Don’t worry about the length of your posts, mines are no better.
I set it out according to tense, meaning, where it says “Adonis said,” “Ebonymonre says,” that’s the place we’re up to.
1. I must say that for all the points I made, (which will hopefully be more clear, once they’re out of moderation), you did a terrible job at countering them. You’ve used nothing but personal bad experiences, confirmation bias, stereotypes, and assumptions to counter me.
2. No, my point was never that BM rap!sts shouldn’t be punished. My comparison was BM who sell w33d, but serve years more than WM rapists, p3dophiles and murderers.
2. My mother is not a BW, so that should shut you up. And do not insult my mother, that is crossing the line. My mother and father were together for 18 years. They were engaged, happy, and planning to wed. It was the time of “The African centre” and “Ronnie Scott’s” (famous Black British clubs in London); it was the era of Sade, “Loose ends,” and “Soul to soul,” during Afrocentric boho London. The only reason why they broke up was because my mother became a born again Christian. My father has two masters’ degrees; he’s travelled the world. My mother is married now, she’s college edcated, and was never a welfare mother. I am not, nor will I ever be a single Black mother on welfare. Both of my sisters are married with kids, to brothas; and they’re both college educated. And I plan to settle down with my partner in the next few years. So you can k!ll all that. Whatever you think you know about me and my family just because we’re Black and started off in the projects, you’ve got very, very wrong.
3. You keep complaining about BW only wanting attractive BM, while saying you only want a good looking BW. You complain that you want a BW who is close to being a virgin, while you allude to being a male harl0t. You seem to want the BW that is everything you’re not. You lose credibility from sentence to sentence. With all that said, even though my comments are not out of moderation yet, I can assure you that I HAVE WON THIS DEBATE! Fair and square, and nobody can tell me otherwise. Now, Adonis, who’s your daddy?
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14. @EbonyMonroe
I will debate this twice. I just wanted laugh so hard at this BS.
WHAT IS THE DRUG OF CHOICE IN THE UK?
I need some whatever you guy to get HIGH on.
Just because I am not in the Oxford, Harvard newspaper, doesn’t mean that what I & AMERICAN black MEN go through are invalid.
And if these academic studies out here (some of these people are ON THE TAKE) swing & miss. So, go figure.
This is FAR from over.
But I need to handle some business.
I told you @Sondis & @KS THIS is better than any strip club in the world.
None of us had to be CASH MONEY for this sh-t.
Shout out to Abagond.
Good Day. See You Soon.
I am ON ONE.
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@EbonyMonroe
Pay Cash Money for*
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@Abagond
I have two posts in moderation. In one of the posts, there is a youtube BW civil rights leader interview video, that I neglected to put in brackets. (You might enjoy it Abagond. She’s inher 90’s but you wouldn’t know it. The interview is about 15 minutes long). If you have the time, can you please pop in the brackets, so they don’t have to be permanently sent to the moderation grave?
@Adonis
I hope you realise, one of the Black girls, who you said you are happy died, who’s death was a result of police brutality, was only a young child. I believe she was between 5-8 years old. She was sleeping on the couch, after having fallen asleep, watching TV. The police, ignoring protocol, burst through the doors, throwing weaponry through the windows, beforehand. The blanket covering her little body, as she slept, caught fire. She was burned alive. Her family, including her grandmother, screamed and pleaded with the officers, trying to alert them to her, as her little body was being consumed by the flames, but the officers restrained them. I’m glad the horrific death of a little Black girl, just a few short years out of her toddler years, tickles you pink. Another one of the deaths was the death of a Black girl who was shot in the head, for no reason. She was just barely out of her teens. I’m glad you find pleasure in these tragedies.
Secondly, I never said BM control Hip Hop, I meant that young BM could reject casually using the languages and ideologies of commercial/gangsta rap to BW, in real life. Like calling BW h0es, or female dogs. Both of which, you have done throughout this debate. That is something YOU DO HAVE THE POWER TO DO. And, it is silly to acknowledge that BM do not control Hip hop, and then turn around and say BW do. The major purchasing power behind Hip hop, is White suburban males, not BW. BW make up 75% of the music purchasing demographic in the Black community, but the Black community only makes up 75,000 units from music release, to music release, on average. So just because you see a few hoodrats at a lil Wayne concert, doesn’t mean BW are the powers behind such artists. Lastly, when Black women do take the kind of content in mainstream Hip hop to task, like they did in the twitter topic #blackpowerisforblackmen, BM, including you, criticise it. So, when BW speak out, they are told to be quite, and when BW don’t speak out, they’re told they obviously agree with it. This is the contradictive narrative in the Black community, this is the oppression that BW are often under, it is just far more serious when applied to areas that have greater implications, to Hip hop music. This, is what you call patriarchy.
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@Adonis
You said the r@pes and g@ngrapes of BG’s is simply down to choices. What about Chicago and the hundreds if not thousand of BM who have been killed, and the hundreds of BGs who have been r@ped or g@ngraped, in that deteriorating city? There was a brotha who posted about it on his website, and surprise, surprise, a BM responded saying, don’t worry about the BGs, they don’t matter, they’re worthless. I consider myself a pretty easy going person, so I guarantee you, there is no point in marrying a BW. You say once you marry a BW, you plan to go even harder on BW than you are now, no self respecting BW is going to be able to deal with that. There’s truly no point, as easy going as I am, you BW bashers literally make my skin crawl; she will end up leaving. I won’t be able to keep up the debate. Here’s an interesting article about the hatred in our community for Black women, written by a Black man…
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(Many, not Most) Black Men hate Black Women…
Disclamer: My consligiare’ Verb suggested I make clear that I am not saying ALL Black men are participants in the type of activity I am about to describe, nor that ALL Black men hate Black women, I hardly believe that this is the reality for the majority, but for a significant part of our group, significant enough that it warrents immediate and exact action. Basically, its not that “MOST” Black men hate our sisters, but far too many do.
One of my favorite bloggers (and possible cousin) Rosyln had mentioned in a discussion we had at the What About our Daughters blog, the frequency of “trains” or gang rapes that occur within the African American community. Rosyln had stated that these things occur more often than people would like to believe. Well, there was a time I would have thought that her position was an overstatement, however; with reports about things like Dunbar, the 11 year old girl in Milwaukee, and the recent attack and rape of a woman in Philadelphia I had to think about what Rosyln had said.
At the same time I was finally getting around to reading a book that my wife had given me a while ago, that being “Makes me Wanna Hollier” by Nathan McCall. I had just got to chapter 6 of his book “Trains” and was horrified at what I read. he talks about how he and his boys would run trains on 13 and 14 year old girls (amongst other things), and what shocked me most is how similar his story sounded to many stories guys told me of their “exploits” when I was a teenager.
There were many times guys would tell me about their participation in such events and I just would assume they were lying about a girl that wished they could get with. I am not so sure how many times they were actually lying now. The young ladies would deny it (who wouldn’t) and the perps wouldn’t give legal culpability admissions, just locker room talk.
What I do know is that when I was 13 myself, I hung out with some older teens (14-19), we had this little dance group. Anyway, there was a young lady who was like a groupie of sorts, followed us around. One day, the guys got her over to one of the members of our team’s house when his parents were gone. Long story short, they decided to use her because she was “willing”.
This girl was also 13 at the time, but it didn’t matter to any of them. I arrived at the house expecting for one of our practices to take place, when I was told downstairs there was a girl who was available to “de-virginize” me. I get down there, and there is the last 2, literally in line (in front of her while she was being raped by the guy before them) to do what the other 8 members who were there were slapping hands about doing. I was horrified, I knew this girl from grade school, I knew she had a crush on one of the older guys particularly, she and I had talked about how she liked him, but everyone else she seemed to be allowed to do this to her because he had basically thrown her to the wolves after he had taken advantage of her (he was 19).
I’ll never forget the look on her face, these guys believed she actually wanted to do this (maybe there are some women who would, but 17, 18 & 19 year old guys might want to find an actually “consenting” adult if this is what gives them thrills). In this case, this was a girl I had been in school with, who looked terrified and had a look in her eyes that she was complying out of fear. I expressed my displeasure at the situation.
Well due to a certain V.ery L.arge “Chicago urban youth group affiliation” I had (By nature as they looked out for me because I DJ’ed some of their sets), even at 13 I had a bit of an intimidation factor going as these guys never wanted my older friends and associates of this “V.ery L.arge” Chicago youth group to visit them, I was able to “persuade them” to discontinue what they were doing, so they allowed for the young lady get dressed. Then I walked her home.
She held her head down and said very little to me. All she said to me was a request that I promise not to tell anyone what happened, and I agreed. I said that what they did to her was wrong, and she said that it was her fault because she trusted the 19 year old and thought he liked her.
When I got back to the house, the guys were all bragging about what they had done, how much she “liked” it, the fact they thought they had “broke in a virgin”, turned her out, etc., etc. I was cussed out by the 2 guys who didn’t get their turn (they were both a year older than I and the youngest guys there besides me), and I was called sissy and “gay” by the older guys because I didn’t take a turn. Some said I was “soft” or “catching feelings” for a “b—-“, and wasn’t a real man, etc.
Honestly, I thought that was a rare event, when other guys said they had participated in this sort of thing, I thought they were just rehashing a story that they had heard, now I believe I may have been seriously wrong. Another thing came to mind as I read Nate’s book. This happened to my mother when she was 17 about 6 months after I was born.
For those who don’t know, my mother died at 42 from a disease cause by alcoholism. Don’t get me wrong, my mother was a great mother, she sacrificed for me in ways I have just begun to appreciate, especially sine I have children of my own now, one of my regrets is that I didn’t tell her how much I appreciated her more often. My mom’s alcoholism was caused by her not being able to handle (or handling in the wrong way) many of the traumatic things that happened to her in her youth, and one of things happened to her on a visit to her father in Detroit.
My grand dad (whom I never met when I was old enough to remember) had married my grandma when she was 12, my grandma had my mother when she was 13, so she wasn’t the best mother to my mom (not necessarily because of her age). Anyway, my grandma left my grand dad when she was in her 20’s, she put my mom out when she had me, so my mom ended up living with my grand dad for a while.
She told me this story when I was 19. When she was in Detroit , my grand dad got mad at her for something and threw her and me (at 6 mos) out. It was late, past midnight. My mother was walking past what was known as a drug house run by gang members. Long story short some guys forced her into the house (one she knew from previous visits), put a gun to my 6 month old head and threatened to kill me if she didn’t comply. She survived that situation, but was forever traumatized by it. There are too many issues there to talk about in one post, parental responsibility (and grand parental responsibility) being chief amongst those issue, however, I will focus on what my step dad had to say about it, that being “Your mom shouldn’t had been up in Detroit anyway”. I will always remember that.
Don’t get me wrong, I love my dad (my step day is the dad who raised me), and overall I think he did a decent job as far as provision and some morality, however; I am thankful I didn’t pick up his backward Mississippi (no offense meant to Mississippi people) Black man mentality towards women. He would always ask me how many girlfriends I had, and if I said 1, he said I should have 5 more. Amazing. This gets to my point.
Before I get to that point, I am not putting myself up their as a beacon of nobility, you see I have come to the understanding and am of a firm belief that any man is capable of raping a women under certain circumstances (it comes down to choice), this is predicated on my understanding that ANY human is capable of ANY thing. I come to this by understanding and taking a honest look at history, current society and myself. For the most part, from my observation, people are selfish and self centered, which breeds a lack of concern for others, which leads to all manner of evil, but that’s a whole ‘nother post. Basically, I think people choose to act “good” (or civil), for fear of consequence.
That being said, I believe that from my observations and experiences I might know a way that we can combat this sick mentality that seems prevalent in our community. I have come to an understanding that Generally, the garden variety sociopath or psychopath who is the ring leader of these “trains” or gang rapes is a lost cause from the jump, its the “go along to get along” brothers who are the greater problem and the problem we might be able to affect change in.
The garden variety sociopath or psychopath who is the ring leader wouldn’t get far in these types of situations if someone, the average guy that is present had the moral center and basis to KNOW that women and girls are PERSON deserving of respect and dignity. Maybe they would stop it, talk the other brothers to their senses, or run like hell and call the police. I am talking to Black men, not because I think this sort of activity is exclusive to the “Black Community” (we know that woman hatred and rape goes beyond color or culture), but because our racial hang ups contribute towards the overall low attitude of Black women and girls in general.
Mr. McCall wrote in his book: “I realized that we thought we loved our sisters but that we actually hated them. We hated them because they were black and we were black, and on some level much deeper than we realized, we hated the hell out of ourselves”.
And I believe he is absolutely on point in that. Black men have got to stop hating Black women and stop teaching young black me to do the same. From that hate (predicated on self hate) comes lack of regard, honor or concern for women who share our color.
These crimes are not about sex, they are about power and abuse, a feeling of ownership over another human being, and a false twisted sociological mentality of what “manhood” is. Black men however, are not the only problem.
Black women enable this. Treating young black boys as princes and treating young black girls as paupers. Black women have an enmity towards black girls (especially when it comes to their sons) often raising their daughters to be subservient to men, teaching both their daughters and sons (by their actions most often) primarily that the worth of a Black girl is their hips, and whats between their legs. All that “man gonna be a man” and “girls are trying to catch you up” drivel just perpetuates this madness. There are actually WOMEN and GIRLS who set other women and girls up for these gang rapes.
Media is part of the problem, but the bigger problem starts in our neighborhoods, streets, families and living rooms. WHAT we teach.
Take church for example. Often girls are told to remain chaste, sometimes getting put out if they get pregnant; yet boys are also compelled to remain chaste ( they may get some lip service), but overall they get the implied wink from their elders that “boys will be boys”.
That is the sort of schizophrenic teaching that has to stop. Also in the homes, Fathers often teach their daughters to be pure, but encourage their sons to lose their virginity as soon as possible, again schizophrenic.
In the streets guys respect each others mothers (and sometimes sisters, girlfriends, wives and daughters) but all other women (who are generally someone else’s sister,other, daughter, girlfriend or wife) are b—— who don’t deserve respect and are simply there to pleasure them. It all comes down to our community’s collective socialization. It starts with each one of US.
I’m just saying…
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Source…
http://djblackadam.typepad.com/damnitq/2008/06/black-men-hate-black-women.html
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As far as Tommy Sotomayor, if it does end up helping the community, (which I very much doubt it will), then I am all for it. But Tommy has a history of getting mad whenever anyone says anything nice about Black women, this offends him, he has said it himself, he hates Black women, that’s the place he’s coming from, it’s not to bring up problems so that we can call them out and fix them, even if he drops that as the reason why he does what he does every now and then. When I first came across his videos, I thought he was doing something positive for the community by being honest, but I soon realized that that is not the case. At that point I just switched off. He’s got tons of White followers getting a kick out of this stuff, and self-professed White supremacists at that.
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F-cTLUCIMpo)
How does implying that Trayvon’s death was his own fault, and calling Trayvon’s mother a hair hatted hooligan help the Black community?
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AcQe1sujips)
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VSnj0SDjkQ8)
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JinmEGhd6Kw)
How can you preach about how lighter skinned Black women are far superior, physically, and as people, and then turn around and question why, and mock some darker skinned Black women for struggling to see themselves as beautiful, living in a very Western part of the world, where many of their own men spew that kind of inferiority garbage? How can you generalize all Black women with children outside of marriage for what could be any number of reasons when you yourself have children out of wedlock? How can you accuse Black women of being disloyal golddiggers, or women who think they’re better as soon as they get educated and get some money, one minute, and then advise a Black woman, to accept the fact that if she marries a man and has kids with him, stays loyal for years on end and then he leaves her to be a single parent when he gets on, that she’s making a fool of herself by not understanding that “all brothas” are gonna leave and upgrade their family when they get money? (Dwayne Wade.)
How are you gonna preach that White women have never taken any part in the brutalities inflicted upon Black men during slavery, that only White men did, so Black women are shameful and a disgrace, for dating and marrying interracially, but Black men are exempt? Then two minutes later, say you don’t have anything against Black women marrying interracially? He doesn’t even make any sense. Where is the real value in this? It seems to me that he just likes to call things out as a shame tactic so he can rub salt in the wounds wherever he can find them. He’s just been hurt so now he wants every Black woman on earth to hurt, when really, he is “the angry Black woman,” with multiple kids by different women, no job, with domestic violence cases, which includes a restraining order, and a severe attitude problem, to top it all off. The very stereotypes that he labels all Black women with. He even said he doesn’t see himself as Black in one video but South American, because he has a great grandmother who was, and then he wants to talk about self hate. There’s even an interview with him saying he makes money off of Black people because they’re stupid and they’re easy. That’s a sad way to be man.
There are other brothas who discuss these things on youtube, but you can tell that their heart is in the right place. There are a few White, and “other men,” who discuss the problems they’ve encountered with their women, but the TS’s are the only cats spewing pure hatred at their own women in public, for sport, and then these cats wonder why White men don’t respect them and view them as their equals, as men? You’ve even got some White women in the comment section, saying things like “boy your men are really awful, I feel so sorry for you.” There’s even White and Hispanic guys who are married to Black women, cursing at these dudes and the videos, in the comment section, and getting mad at the generalizations and degradation, I mean what kind of upside down mind trip is that?
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1UDuCBD62XI)
He even has a video where he spewed “the Larry Elder speech,” about Zimmerman and how we shouldn’t be attacking Zimmerman, Black people are the people we should be looking at. I couldn’t believe he exploited Trayvon’s death to sit there and talk about some insignificant hate mail he gets from Black people who send him emails, with his followers chiming in, saying “Trayvon deserved it anyway, he was just a thug who got what was coming to him.” It is truly disgusting.
There have been multiple complaints from men, with youtube accounts, who have been removed because they politely questioned Tommy’s contradictions when it comes to White women vs. Black women, or just Black women, or the Black community in general, as he often pumps up his followers to flag any and all who disagree, even if they’re just respectfully engaging. And God forbid, if it’s a Black woman who politely disagrees, he’ll humiliate her, curse her, tell her she’s an ugly ghetto gagger, a n!gge& b!tch, tell her she’s a beast. I’ve come across him doing this on Twitter, I mean it’s extreme. If it’s a brotha, if he can find any pictures or evidence of the brotha’s girlfriend, or wife, and female children, he’ll begin cyber stalking and bullying them, along with his followers.
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OkIV0bX8KwE)
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bRUQ-mWF4n8)
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wbZpUnKVRjI)
There’s even this brotha on youtube, who’s known for being quite honest and frank about how some Black women in our community behave, and let themselves down. He just so happened to make one video about the fact that too many Black women have suffered sexual abuses in our community, and no one speaks out about the damage this does. He spoke on how many sistas in his family, and among his group of Black female friends, have been vulnerable to some pretty bad abuses, and he theorized about how some of this behavior is acting out and can sometimes be attributed to these experiences. He also made a random observation in saying that he makes it a point to be even in looking at our flaws as both Black men and Black women. Tommy saw this, took offense and dedicated a twenty minute video to calling him ugly, and laughing at, and taunting the brotha for being raised by a single Black mother, because he didn’t like the fact that he was sympathizing as well as calling out, instead of just humiliating and attacking Black women. But this is the way he goes on. There were even brothas who got on there and blamed all and only Black women/mothers for this issue, just like you.
How can you say things like “I’m always happy when I’m around White people, but as soon as I’m in the company of Black men and women, my life gets ruined?” He may throw in something of value every now and then, but the fact that the bulk of his work is so destructive, makes it all so dangerous. Through some bad experiences, he has internalized White supremacist languages, doctrines/ideologies, and has taken to regurgitating them for today.
Growing up, all I ever saw was men leaving their children, or sitting back on the coach while their woman held down two or three jobs, cooked, cleaned and raised the kids. All I ever saw was men beating up women, all the time, I’ve actually never seen a man beat a woman for being physically attacked first (not that that doesn’t happen.) Even rape was funny to dudes in my old neighborhood and it didn’t come down to it being a matter of who the women picked because this is just the way the vast majority of cats were. A sista could vet a dude as carefully as possible, take as much time as possible to really get to know him, and then and only then, put her good faith in him and take a gamble, commit to giving her all and pray for the best, (which is all you can really do when all is said and done.) Or you could choose to be alone forever.
But despite my own personal experiences and the things that I’ve witnessed, I am able, as a logical thinking young woman, to understand that it is not about race or gender or both. It doesn’t matter what I’ve come across, I’m not gonna sit up here and say that Black men are the enemy because that’s simply not true. I could never generalize my own Black men, degrade and publicly humiliate them and then turn around and worship White men. It’s the content of the character, and many times in poverty stricken neighborhoods, you’re going to see the worst of human beings. And the funny thing is, now I’m not taking away from everyone taking personal responsibility for their own actions instead of resting on excuses, but I’m smart enough to recall the fact that there wasn’t always a difference in the way that the Indian and the White guys behaved in my neighborhood, because it was the environment that ultimately determined what was socially acceptable. The conscience is God given, values are learned, morality is often relative. Race was not the determining factor, nature/nurture.
It is also my own personal belief that people often fall into a “manifest destiny realization syndrome,” where one has had who and what “they are,” (no good, ugly, violent, poor, destructive, victim, perpetrator), drummed into their head so intensely and for such a prolonged period of time, that they eventually begin to walk it out. The power cards aren’t even held in the hands of Black women or men in order for us to be the puppet masters instigating some sort of conspiracy to destroy the Black man, contrary to what we are being accused of.
We have all gone through some things and we have all been hurt. But behaviors should be attacked, not race, or the gender of a race. We see exactly where this demonizing got us in the first place…a great deal of psychological damage, self hate, the digestion of White supremacist thought as being the absolute truth, and the poisonous disunity of brotha against brotha, sista against sista, sista against brotha, and brotha against sista. You can use colorful language for the sake of controversy to court attention as much as you want, but the question is where is it coming from and what’s the true intent?
Since one of Willie Pete’s followers has already killed a Black woman for being Black and female, I’m wondering how long it will be until the next? Maybe one of the TS followers or someone from the site diary of a tired Black man, where post after post was written in reaction to that young Black girl’s death, about how “it’s so sad that Black women are so evil that they eventually drove that man to kill that innocent Black girl, but who knows? Maybe she deserved it;” as soon as the news of her death came. I don’t really understand why cats don’t just completely ditch sistas and we won’t even exist in a few short generations? The solution seems pretty clear to me. This is all so deeply disturbing, I never saw this day coming. I guess Pac’s “Keep your head up” was real prophesy.
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iECzrhEY-no)
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Its only hard for the maladjusted…most emotionally and sexually healthy Black adults don’t have this problem; see the Toldson and Marks study.
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Also Abagond, i want to do a guest post.
Thanks!
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Adonis:
“I told you @Sondis & @KS THIS is better than any strip club in the world.
None of us had to be CASH MONEY for this sh-t.”
Ain’t that the TRUTH!
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Abagond,
I just emailed my guest post to you!
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“12 Years a Slave ” – any good?
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ebonymonroe @Adonis
I took the liberty of including your answers, as well as my previous answers to make for an easier reading experience; that would account for the length. You continue to spew huge accusations about BW that have so many social angles, that it is extremely difficult to respond with convenient compact answers.
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Adonis @Ebonymonroe
Understood
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Ebonymonroe @Adonis
That is why I do not get into these debates, if the person engaging is irrational and purely emotional, because it’s not worth debating opinion, if we are just ignoring facts. One could argue that the world is flat, but no matter how much I dispute that, using legitimate facts, if one is determined to hold their opinion, there is no point. That is not a debate, it’s an argument.
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Adonis @Ebonymonroe
I mostly debate accurate generalizations. With personal account, other personal accounts, blog articles, cross referencing, OUT OF BLACK WOMEN’s OWN MOUTHS. And actions.
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Ebonymonroe says
So you’re saying… “Ebonymonroe, my information is credible, because of my experiences, my walk of life that is so miniscule in the scope of things; the experiences of a few of my friends, a few anti-black articles on blogs made by a White supremacist media structure; by hearing a few BW I know talk, and watching what they have done.” How is this credible? This goes back to the example I gave of a WM listening to anti-BM media propaganda, and then coming to the conclusion that it’s true because he got robbed by one. This is why I say, either the KKK AND YOU, are credible, or neither is. Because you both rely on generalizations that hold no real statistical weight as it relates to all BM and BW, or in your case just BW.
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Ebonymonroe @Adonis
Black women engineer their misfortune as children and as women?
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Adonis said
When you don’t get married to capable men, YES.
When you have children before you are ready? YES
Ebonymonroe says
This was a question I asked in regards to you saying 60% of Black girls being raped or sexually assaulted/molested from birth to the age of 18, is down to choices. You didn’t answer my question. So you’re saying social construct plays no part in it, rape happens because BW choose the wrong men to marry (since 75% do), and BG’s and children are molested because of their mothers. Well since BM, statistically, spend the most time with their children, it is not as if they’re not involved in there daughters’ lives for the responsibility not to be on them, as well. And since 88% of married AAM marry AAW, you’re saying this 88% of AAM are not capable men? Dude, you’re backing yourself so far into a corner with this, that you’re starting to resemble a White kid doing “time-out.”
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Ebonymonroe @Adonis
The same could be said for BM,
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Adonis said
Most black men own it, and suffer in silence. And it is still not socially acceptable for BM to air out their grievances. They have to just grin & bear it.
Ebonymonroe says
From the blues, to Hip hop, to Black power movements and the civil rights movement, to you saying Black girls being killed by police brutality, don’t matter because the BM mortality rate is higher. BM have been complaining about their lives, singing the blues, and playing the oppression Olympics forever. It has always been socially acceptable for you to air out your grievances, we are not allowed. Many BM are offended by movies like “Waiting to exhale” and “For colored girls.” It is the other way around in my opinion. Your grievances have always taken precedence over ours. Even during the civil rights movement, when oftentimes, we were doing most of the work…
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3UG7YCgkXTo)
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Ebonymonroe @Adonis
but I can’t, because I know there are so many variables, and cycles of oppressive social constructs that lead to the state of the Black community as a whole.
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Adonis @Ebonymonroe
I get it. And for the most part, you hold black men & women to the same victim standard.
I hold black men & women to the same personal responsibility standard.
Both work. The problem is when you use one standard for one group, and another standard for the other group.
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Ebonymonroe @Adonis
I’m not able to blame BM for their oppressions, but I’m not able to blame BW for theirs either. That is the difference, here.
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Ebonymonroe says
Adonis, I can’t imagine how many times I have said that many of the problems BM AND BW face, are self inflicted. Actually, in one of my first posts in the interracial thread (where this debate began), I said that we are very much responsible for our own continued oppression, and we are clearly not about changing it. The difference between me and you, is you compare BW to non BW, while not acknowledging the different walk of life non BW have in comparison to BW. But then when I bring that up, you say I’m painting the Black community out to be victims. For the last time. The problems BM AND BW face, are often very much self inflicted, but on the same token, there are many social constructs that make the situations, the epidemics, the disadvantaged positioning, the general problems, that the Black community faces, an uphill battle to overcome. Many BM and BW do, but we are a few short generations post the civil rights movement, and is SHOULD go without saying, that since they’re human beings, BM AND BW are often falling into the pitfalls that are all around them, being on the very bottom of the totem pole. Do you know how many innocent BM are thought to be in jail right now? As many as 30%. Do you know how likely it is for girls who have been sexually abused, and/or grow up without a father, and are living under the poverty line, to become unwed mothers? Read this post about the demise of Black marriages and the social constructs that caused our divorce rates, to go from beating out White Americans, to struggling the most, out of all groups. Here’s a post from Abagond’s blog from Satanforce, when responding to a book, that attributed the divorce rates of BM and BW to slavery. As Isaiah Washington’s character, said in “Love Jones,” LET ME BREAK IT DOWN, SO IT CAN FOREVER BE BROKE…
satanforce
HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!! I am always amused by b!tchists, and their b!tchism, especially the type of B!tchism that seems to be evident in the author of this particular book. I am glad Abagond took the time out to expose this guy and his b!tcha55edness in all its glory. What is with these guys? It’s like the only history they know about black people is Slavery, the Tuskegee Airmen, and Nowadays. If they put as much energy into trying to make their self-pity seem like self-esteem, they would be able to realize that they do not need “Proppa Propaganda.” Real history is enough. Real history like The Negr0 family in Slavery, the Tulsa Riots (a black middle class settlement) and even a movie (based on real life) like Rosewood, with its extended family, complete with a black man (GASP), defending his family!
Indeed, most sources show that the black extended family managed to exist in some form during slavery, and remained largely intact post-slavery, up until the late 1960s.
They even got slavery wrong. B!tcha55es. The main reason black men would get caught and sent back was because they hung around the slave plantation when they ran away, or (In Jamaica at least),during the Christmas time when slaves got the day off to celebrate, the black man would run to the plantation where his first love was. Hell. simply digging around shows that black people during the early part of the last century had lower divorce rates than whites.
It would seem that the “demise of Black Love” (late ’60s, around the time of te Moynihan Report) occurred during a time that saw first world countries implement
– massive deindustrialisation of major American cities (containerization and urban policies)
– the loosening of immigration policies, allowing cheap labor to compete with local labor (France with Magrebian, America with Hispanics, Britain with her former colonies)
– the IndoChina conflict (with the attendant military draft)
– massive importation of powerful narcotics into poor areas (like black ghettoes)
– a property crash during the early ’70s
– the reorganization of cities according to the desires of Robert Moses and his disciples, and no one else’s, not even the people who lived there
– neo-liberal policies that shifted state services away from areas with a majority of poor people , to richer areas (like moving the bulk of fire services away from the Bronx and Brooklyn to Manhattan)
– the creation of a legal-industrial complex that arrests and incarcerates black males at a much higher per capita level than their counterparts
Even just two of the above would be enough to cause the level of social breakdown seen in poor black American communities today, never mind the white communities that are have also experienced similar issues (the Rust Belt , for example)
It is good that Abagond exposes these b!tch nigga5, not just so that we may mock them and pour scorn on their writing (seriously, its like they think that the sum total of black history is learnt by watching “Roots”), but also that we may counter their arguments and propose solutions of our own, whether it be on the individual level (exercise, schooling, education, meeting other likeminded individuals), community (guiding little nigga5, community fsrming, taking advantage of fundraising loopholes to create PACs) or on a larger scale (media manipulation a la Shirley Sherrod, setting up thinktanks to influence instituations).
But that’s hard work, isn’t it? Easier to make YouTube videos about Willie Lynch. Easier to pity yourself under the guise of venting (Black Men Vent and Black Women’s Empowerment) and easier to live in past where only enslavement, genocide, failure (a few black inventors) and injustice exist.
It is least we could do honor our ancestors, who dealt with greater hardships than we, yet still managed to survive, and preserve their families so that we could make it here. Wouldn’t you agree?
Oh, and one more thing. Where the hell do you all get off about African-Americans not challenging statistcs? Doesn’t anyone remember:
– Satoshi Kanazawa and his box-plot bullsh!t
– that whole Justice Policy Institute “more black men in than in college crap”
– the CDCs black woman herpes statistics
– Barack Obama and Bill Cosby stating that black men are responsible for out of wedlock marriage (I didn’t know that black men reproduced asexually), and ignoring cohabitation, stepfathers and visiting arrangements.
People, have some f**king pride. Not everything is an excuse to b!tch, moan and pity yourself about. Take a stand and do something, or take a bow and leave.
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Ebonymonroe says
Yes, Adonis, you’re right, Black people are superhuman beings who are able to withstand a full scale assault, no matter how bad, and numerous it is. The truth is, BM and BW are just innately evil. LMBO.
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Adonis said
Fine.
(Ebonymonroe @Adonis
You have no ground using the “BW choose thugs argument,”)
Actually, YOU BROUGHT THAT UP.
You are more familiar with the term THUG, which I don’t like, because I actually hang out with a lot of these dudes, and their are a lot of “GOOD MEN” fall into the THUG category.
I have a problem with men who willfully do not take care of their children, financially or are present.
Irresponsible men.
Educated, uneducated.
Mommy issues. daddy issues
Rich or poor (tho mostly impoverish)
Charismatic or lame.
Masculine or feminine
Straight or bi-sexual
Criminals or law-abiding citizens
If these men do not take care of their children, then they are a piece of sh-t.
(The exception to the rule is, if HE PICKED THE WRONG WOMAN TO MATE WITH & THEN SHE IS LEVERAGING THE WHITE POWERED COURT SYSTEM to keep him away from the child, then I am compassionate to his situation, but he made a wrong move somewhere.)
It is HARD TO HOLD THESE MEN TO THEIR RESPONSIBILITY, if black women are willing opening their legs for them. And women like you are complaining to be AFTER THE CHILD IS BORN.
Ebonymonroe says
Well then, “no good men.” Replace thugs with “no good men.” If you still stand on the idea that it’s down to BW choosing “no good men.” please do a U-turn, and read through Satanforce’s post, again. And by the way, if they don’t go to the court to ask you to help them to raise the child and to provide for the child, then they will have to go to the government, OR they will have to swallow their pride and raise the child with only one wage, which causes the child to have to go without. Which one is it? Which one do you prefer? And I’m talking about single mothers who exist, because they do. Which one do you want single mothers to do, ask for child support? Or get on welfare?
…………………………………………………………………………………
Ebonymonroe @Adonis
which your entire argument seems to rest on. Only 30% of AA single parent homes are the product of a BW and a “thug,” the other 40-42% are not.
……………………………………………………………………………..
Adonis said
You straw manned my argument to put the pressure on men who are more like me who might be getting black women pregnant outside of marriage.
Ebonymonroe says
Adonis, this is the whole point, the statistics are there, the facts are there, babyboy. BM who have the qualities you mentioned make up 70% of the men with children OOW. It’s not straw manning, I am debating your claims with facts, and your claims do not stand once we provide the documented facts. Sorry.
……………………………………………………………………………………………
Ebonymonroe @Adonis
You put 0-18 year old Black female rape victims down to choices? Between birth, and at least 16, you’re a child. It is generally called pedophilia.
…………………………………………………………………………
Adonis said
You mean the parents & the babyfathers that they choose to procreate with. Huh?
Ebonymonroe says
Once again, throwing fart-thoughts into the air. The statistics say that rape victims are usually victimized by family members, close family friends and neighbors. So you can’t say it comes down to BW and the new man they’re bringing into the home, the facts say otherwise. Sorry.
………………………………………………………….
Ebonymonroe @Adonis
And, as I’ve said, roughly 75-85% of rape victims know their attackers, as family members, close family friends, and close neighbors, so once again, your idea of it being about CHOICES, is completely unfounded.
……………………………………………………………………
Adonis said
This is true. So what do you do?
Ebonymonroe says
The first thing you could do, as one of the BW bashers, is stop going on websites where “other men” as well as your own, are watching on; and dehumanizing BW and laughing at the idea that BW are unrapable. You are empowering the idea that the BW’s body is worthless and readily accessible. Stop doing that. Secondly, you could stop supporting BW bashers, if you do: the Tommy Sotomayors, etc. That would be a start. I know for sure that I would not be supporting any movement that chose to dehumanize BM.
…………………………………………………………………………………………….
Ebonymonroe @Adonis
You cannot have an intelligent conversation on this because you are delusional with your hatred of BW.
……………………………………………………………
Adonis said
Whatever helps you sleep at night.
Ebonymonroe says
No, this is very true. You’re arguing with facts I presented by using your own belief in stereotypes. So where can one go when one will not accept the facts?
…………………………………………………………
Ebonymonroe @Adonis
By the way, even though 60% of Black women are raped or sexually abused from 0-18 in the US, a huge percentage of rape victims do not report their crimes due to the fear not being believed, and out of fear of humiliation. Your assertion that the victims, (the victim and her family that will have to deal with the trauma), are to blame, are why.
………………………………………………………
Adonis said
Well, they have to speak up. If they do not, they have their reasons. Oh well.
Ebonymonroe says
Adonis, when you respond to this statistic by saying “oh well,” nonchalantly, do you really think you should be marrying a BW, or possibly being the father to a Black female child? Do you really? Please, marry out!
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Ebonymonroe @Adonis
If 50% of BW are born under the poverty line, and 70-72% grow up without a father at home to present a male role model for future reference on what a husband and father should be, and if 60% are the victims of rape before they’re adults, and if they’re packing prisons for non violent crimes, (usually for being found carrying drugs for family members), then yes, they are at a great disadvantage and are just as much victimized and disadvantaged as BM are.
………………………………………………………………………….
Adonis said
I agree.
Ebonymonroe
Then why are we arguing?
…………………………………………………………………………………………..
Ebonymonroe @Adonis
I’m sorry, but dudes, like you, live by the assumption that all BW collectively step over good BM to be with bad BM, but you have no proof for this, the statistics don’t back you, you don’t know every American BW to say this.
…………………………………………………………………………………….
Adonis said
Really? You just admitted, black women ain’t trying to get married like that. And they want to date whomever gets them wet.
Ebonymonroe says
No, I showed that not all BW are anxious about getting married, so your idea that all BW are angry about BM marrying out, is not true, because many of them are not particularly interested in marrying you, anyway. But still the report did not show that all AAW don’t want to get married. And this coincides with a general drop in interest for marriage, among all women in the US, not just BW. And I never said BW want to date whoever stimulates them, or anything of that nature. Lol. I just disagreed with your position that BW don’t find non BM attractive and that’s why they stick with BM. Because that’s not true.
………………………………………………………………………………………..
Adonis said
So, if these BW end up in a dark place. I could careless. Choices baby. Choices
Ebonymonroe says
No one has asked you to care, I have only taken issue with you attacking. You don’t have to defend, “stop attacking,” is my position. Please don’t misunderstand.
……………………………………………………………………………..
Ebonymonroe @Adonis
Your argument is made up of thin air. I believe at this point, that men who feel this way are just bitter over not being chosen by BW.
………………………………………………………………………………..
Adonis said
And then BW turn around AND GET MAD when these men decide to check for Non-BW
And then try to pee on my leg & tell me it is raining about LOYALTY. LMAO.
Ebonymonroe
I give you my word, if I ever have brought up BM marrying out, I won’t bring it up again. Kay?
…………………………………………………………………………………………………………………
Ebonymonroe @Adonis
It could be that one is physically unattractive, emotionally unbalanced, unintelligent, irrational, not sexy, bad in bed, and lacks basic social skills, charisma, and good humor.
………………………………………………………………………………..
Adonis said
And then you turn around and ask these same men to support BWs causes. WHY? WHY?
……………………………………………………………………………..
Ebonymonroe @Adonis
The men who seem to allude to being good BM always seem to be the nastiest. ……………………………………………………………………………………
Adonis @Ebonymonroe
Chicken & egg argument.
You ignore & reject these men and expect them to be happy about it. LOL!!!
And expect love & support from these men.
And talk crazy about LOYALTY to these men.
And then, get mad when these men decide that non-BW are a better option.
@EbonyMonroe you see how crazy, you, @Peanut & @Sharina sound.
Ebonymonroe says
Once again, this is not about you defending BW, it’s about you ATTACKING BW! And there are real “good BM” out there, who have supported BW, anyway.
………………………………………………………………………………………………………….
Ebonymonroe @Adonis
No one wants a scorned man or woman. “The good guy thing” is just a label that passive aggressive men seem to use. But, as I said, the self professed “good guys” always seem to be the worst. ………………………………………………………………………………………..
Adonis said
It is what it is. But these men take away the victim narrative Black women like to run with, when the IR dating conversations come up.
Ebonymonroe says
In the interracial thread, I actually said that I feel if you’ve tried to find you mate among your own, and haven’t, and then come across your ideal outside of your race, you should go for it. I’ve never taken issue with BM who find what they’re looking for, in a spouse, outside their race, after finding no luck within their race. We pretty much agree here. But the loyalty thing still holds, because many BW have not had luck with BM, but they still stick with them, so you have not managed to disprove the loyalty position, as yet.
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Ebonymonroe @Adonis
Please save yourself the time of responding to my posts, as I’m not interested. It is impossible having a rational debate with you, when you have no way of seeing things with a rational mind. Don’t waste your time.
……………………………………………………….
Adonis said
We just disagree, so I am irrational. Get over yourself.
Ebonymonroe says
It is irrational when you argue statistics with stereotypes. You’re arguing facts with opinions, that is irrational.
………………………………………………………………………………….
Ebonymonroe @Soulsearch
I agree, the double minority aspect is not taken into account. But, at this point, in my opinion, I honestly think it would be worse. But that’s just my position.
………………………………………………………………..
Adonis said
1. Black women benefit on being BLACK & a WOMAN. I believe @Sondis & @Alicia highlighted this. Black women like to focus on how they are losing, but conveniently overlook how they are winning, fair or unfair.
2. You & other black women (some are Bed Wench) are very comfortable with white men running things, and you know that black men assuming power, would limit black female freedom in some capacity.
Also, the black feminist movement & Bed wench cannot THRIVE without White Supremacy & weak black male leadership.
If we are being honest.
Ebonymonroe says
No, YOU’RE SAYING “BW ARE LOSING,” I’M SAYING “THEY’RE WINNING,” AND WHERE THEY ARE LOOSING, THOUGH SOME OF IT IS SELF INFLICTED, A LOT OF IT HAS BEEN DOWN TO BEING DISADVANTAGED. And, no! Black feminism has been fighting for the empowerment of Black men and the entire Black community for a long time, as well as BW. I have already posted on the origins, and the aims of Black feminism, so I won’t go over that again. Black feminism has been fighting White supremacy, probably long before you were born. You, however, regurgitate White supremacist propaganda. And yet you don’t even see the hypocrisy in your own positions, while saying BW want to be like WW, when you positions are like that of a racist WM. This is the irrationality.
I’ll close with this, in the same way I started. Adonis, you’re too young to understand.
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in this weeks episode of black hollyweird ain’t ish.
Kenan Thompson said there are no black women on snl because we aren’t funny, bawhwhahwa. Kenan just needs to admit he has crabs in the barrel mentality and a black female comedian would take some of his roles, he’s said he won’t be dressing as a woman anymore but we’ll see. So I guess he forgot about chescleigh, wanda sykes, tychina Arnold, etc. but yes its true we are not funny yes have a black man dress up as us to kill 2 or 3 birds with one stone by effemizing black men, masculinizing black women, and making the black man dressed up as a black woman play to black women stereotypes. So by the time he leaves the studio he can’t remember what his role is, is it to be a threatening black male or a loud ghetto black woman, oh yes have him acting like he has multiple personalities. Have that sasha fierce come out of him rofl. On a more serious note, why the heck does he still look the same as he did when he was on all that? I swear he hasn’t aged. his co star jay pharaoh, hmm love his last name sounds so royal, well he is real and gave a great reason as to why there aren’t black women on there and even gave a recommendation for someone to be on there. so glad he said the right thing other ppl need to have a publicist write everything they say or they end up sounding foolish.
http://www.thefrisky.com/2013-10-15/kenan-thompson-says-there-are-no-black-women-on-saturday-night-live-because-there-arent-enough-funny-black-women/
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Rofl. It is always the has beens.
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i’m too damn heated to even comment not only due to here but some external influences… need to chill out
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@ sharina
lmbao it sure is, kenan I remember watching on the kenan and kel show I liked kel more though I thought he was funnier, the orange soda song was funny to me.
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Hi all,
The third part of Alvin Hall’s excellent “Who Sold the Soul?” documentary about the African American music business just went out. I think that’s the last part.
Here are links to all three parts.
Part one: https://soundcloud.com/rick-buddhuu-cadger/who-sold-the-soul-pt-1
Part two: https://soundcloud.com/rick-buddhuu-cadger/who-sold-the-soul-pt-2
Part three: https://soundcloud.com/rick-buddhuu-cadger/who-sold-the-soul-pt3
Part three is about hip hop, and it maintains the high standard AH set with the first two parts. I think it’s a great job and he’s put his 3 x 30 minutes to good use.
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@mstoogood4yall:
LOL! A friend of mine just got a Kenan and Kel t-shirt. I didn’t think she was old enough to remember that show…
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Da Jokah,
I am bringing our discussion here.
So far we have the following:
.
.
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Again, Da Jokah,
Exactly how many years do you think have elapsed since the time that you describe as “past discrimination”?
It is my contention that discrimination, stereotyping, profiling, racism still exist in the power structures of our society.
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@ Rick Buddhuu: Thanx, you are the best.
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@ rick
thanks for posting the link, really nice to hear, its crazy how hip hop went from being conscious to being the crap it is today with the exception of a few. it is also crazy and dumb how the black owned labels sold out to the major white owned labels. idk how many times ppl have to be duped before they realize let’s do something different. the last 5 minutes were really hit the nail on the head. it is like a minstrel show the way music is nowadays.
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well it is some skill on a black person and a white one inside in a still photo, i reckon
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this native american girl from oklahoma city or thereabouts her name was peaches we were on a jet plane wow
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that’s one thing i gotta work on like the hindu thing i had
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miss yvonne half cherokee
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abagond been like wow lately dude very good writing and research hats off
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oh yeah dont ask what nation my friend matt well he had that one tat on his back of the dude on horseback on the cliff he covered over the arrow in the back idk i did not go there his family was nice to me
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mr henry i met him at usc navajo i believe a writer told me the girl is there for you to share he told me dont ask what nation
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bear oso he was mr henry from usc los angelese not south carolina
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ese
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NatureBeautiful — It is my contention that…
State your case and we’ll discuss.
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yeah i know middle eastern right
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8. @EbonyMonroe
https://abagond.wordpress.com/open-thread/#comment-197699
I addressed 197699
https://abagond.wordpress.com/open-thread/#comment-197814
197814 seems similar TO 197699, but has new content halfway through.
Just interested to know where you were going.
I will finish addressing the second half of 197814
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@ mary burrell, @ mstoogood4yall:
You’re welcome, ladies.
@ mstoogood4yall:
That minstrel show comment described it perfectly. My interest in mainstream hip hop waned when that crap took over. I’m a huge Public Enemy fan, and I still listen to their classic stuff even now, but I have no time for people like Jay-Z. Apart from being plain rude about Harry Belafonte, he and the rest of that ostentatious new-money crew make me angry. In some ways newly rich people are as bad as the born-to-privilege parasites. Those born to it are in their natural, inexcusable, parasitic element. The neauveaus are sell-outs, and their records have no real connection to real people beyond carricature.
As Chuck says: “Whips wheelin’ is a million miles from what people’s feeling.”
I’m going to listen to the three parts of Alvin Hall’s documentary again later. There’s bound to be things that didn’t sink in first time.
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Sorry, spelling typo. Meant to write “nouveaus are sell-outs” ^ .
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Again, Da Jokah,
Exactly how many years do you think have elapsed since the time that you describe as “past discrimination”?
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@Adonis
Yeah, that’s why I asked Abagond to scrap the previous ones, I hadn’t finished. I would have ended up posting 6 or 7 posts, which would be too many to deal with. The responses not to be disregarded begin with my post from 20 oct 16:38:03, if you’re still unwilling to just name me your daddy right now.
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NatureBeautiful
You’re the one with contentions. State your case and we’ll discuss.
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Because you do not wish to answer my question which was
I consider this discussion closed.
Just so that you know, I was going continue asking you MORE questions in order to pick apart your first statement in your first post. That statement of yours was
Have a good day.
I imagine we will meet up here again at some future time over an issue in some future article by Abagond.
Take care.
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@ rick
Yeah jay z is crazy I heard about him dissing harry Belafonte just because he didn’t mention jayz sell out arse but mentioned bruce springsteen, ugh and his arrogant behind saying my presence is charity.
As for hip hop changing, well I don’t really listen to it much but the old school sounds way better it was like poetry and the words rhymed and u could understand what they were saying. I think hip hop changed because the elites didn’t want black and white ppl fighting the power and know how much music influences behavior. I mean just look at the songs nowadays talking about popping mollies and tthen I see on the news that teens are poppin mollies and overdosing. Just imagine if artists like public enemy were around today and making songs about police brutality, stop and frisk, mental health. I read an article as well about how I forgot the rappers name but he said that when he did a song about killing cops the record label didn’t approve it because they said it could cause ppl to be against cops, but when he did a song about killing other black ppl they ok’d it. it is a twisted world we live in.
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@ mstoogood4yall
Old school hip hop was great. As I’ve said, I’m a big fan of Chuck D. I used to love Run DMC and the Beasties, but they were mostly just fun. PE are still going strong and Chuck still has what it takes; really political and powerful.
The thing about hip hop being steered away from fight-the-power politics and into shallow caricature is very believable. Some of those early guys were like the heirs of Gil Scott-Heron and other earlier musical and poetic satirists and commentators. There is still a lot of socially and politically focused rap, but it doesn’t enjoy the mainstream popularity of the shallow crap variety.
I was recently very impressed by the guy linked below. He’s a young British rapper known as NxtGen. He voices a lot of the outrage felt by working class UK citizens of all races. This is substance. This is something worthwhile. This guy is a link in the chain that includes Scott-Heron and Chuck D. It lacks style and polish but it has heart.
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HiEqPzpMA9M)
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NatureBeautiful
What’s wrong, sweetie? Was I not as easily manipulated as you had hoped? If you want a discussion with me it will be a fair one and not one in which you pull my string. xxoo
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Just another look outside the U.S.
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@ peanut
that is crazy but not surprising then there’s this mess http://newsone.com/2744625/finance-employer-wants-woman-to-cut-off-dreadlocks/ smh can’t win either way, wear our hair with highlights omg wear our natural hair still omg, wtf are we supposed to do be bald look like gi jane?
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@mstoogood4yall: Forgive my potty mouth, I will do better. Those crazy Austrailians made me angry.
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rofl ms mary no aplogy needed we all get angry sometimes nice to know u human, lol.
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Does anbody know if Abagond ever wrote about Crispus Attucks? I always found it ironic that one of the first deaths in the American revolutionary movement was a black guy.
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@Joel Pennington
Indeed he has. Most recently here:
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Just returned from the movies, saw “Twelve Years A Slave” I am numb. My emotions are all over the place. It was gut wrenching and excruitating. I am thankful we don’t live in those times. Viewing a narrative of the inhumanity and depravity of slavery. I was crying. It was brutal.
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@ Peanut.
Morons. 😦
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On a more positive note…
http://www.dailydot.com/lifestyle/ex-racists-hate-change-reddit/?utm_source=buffer&utm_campaign=Buffer&utm_content=bufferabedf&utm_medium=twitter
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14. @EbonyMonroe (pt. 2)
I am back. I got busy, but I didn’t forget about you boo.
Ok
Of course, I had no links or stats to back my assertions up. Whatever.
Which proves my point that if a BLACK MAN hurts anybody, there is a system in place to punish him. Black men do not abuse people with impunity.
Good for you. You are also a self identified black feminist. Which I am not fully sure you know how that translates over here in the US.
I believed I addressed this, I just didn’t post it yet. No worries. I’ll repeat it again if necessary
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10. @EbonyMonroe
Nuance & priority take shape here.
Keep in mind, 5% to 10% of people in general are at the top of the dating food chain.
They have beauty/handsome, brains, money & they are emotionally sound.
They can demand the best of the best from the opposite gender, and more often than not, they will get their match.
Like Attracts Like.
BUT FOR THE REST OF US.
We have different qualities that we value in the opposite gender.
FOR MEN, we generally value
YOUNG WOMEN
FIT WOMEN (I keep bashing you with “FIT”, because FIT BLACK WOMEN will never fit under Eurocentric weight standards)
CHILDLESS WOMEN
CHASTE WOMEN (For Long-Term Dating)
SLUTTY WOMEN (Short-Term Dating)
FEMININE WOMEN (Think Beyoncé, Marilyn Monroe, Cleopatra, Valley Girls in California, Taylor Swift)
Some men like DUMB women, some like SMART women
Some men like RICH women, some men like BROKE women
And don’t get silly like @Sharina.
When a man has his MONEY/RESOURCES (it also means you can TRAVEL) & has DECENT social skills. Who does he pick MOST OF THE TIME?
I rest my case
As for WOMEN especially at their best (see above), they generally VALUE
– Celebrity/Fame
– DOMINANT personality/attitude (so a man can be fat, skinny, muscular, whatever, and that ATTITUDE will win that. He can be broke, rich, whatever.)
– Strong Seck-ual Skills
– Strong Social Skills, a man who speaks well, knows how to hold a group in conversation. You can be an introvert & have strong social skills. If you are popular with women (social proof), that definitely helps.
– Financially Sound (despite feminist BIG OFFICE TALK. Women do not want to FINANCIALLY CARRY a household)
– Looks, although will get you far with women (you get more interviews, and more SECKS with little effort), has its limitations.
– Character, Integrity, fidelity, blah blah
I say all that to say this, women value many different things in men, but based on their market value, they cannot get the Cremé de la Cremé of men to take them seriously.
So they have to ask themselves, what is the most important qualities in MEN that they have to have.
So, I am not contradicting myself, but you have to take account of a woman’s
AGE (younger women vs older women)
Guardian/environment/culture
Psychological make-up
Financial status
Race
And you can get an EXCELLENT feel for what she is about. This is not tough.
…………………………………………………
To piggyback on my last point.
An 80 year old BLACK WOMAN with his MONEY & SOCIAL SKILLS intact (FAME just makes it too easy) can get a Bria Myles or a Brianna Bette and any young, old woman he desires.
An 80 year old BLACK WOMAN with MONEY, SOCIAL SKILLS & FAME can only get a guy like me, because I love women with money.
But only a handful of men would take this woman seriously.
Sidney Poitier & Morgan Freeman vs
Cicily Tyson, Tina Turner (she is married to her credit, she still ain’t “in demand!!!”) & Maya Angelou (who was a prostitute/stripper, I just found out this week!!!)
………………………………………………………………………….
I am just going to tip-toe past this.
When we get old, unfortunately we won’t be immature enough to enjoy our fates, we will be onto something different.
Yea, you need more people.
And black men in America ain’t getting married like that as is. I think our stats are a little worse than BW
The thing is, black men don’t wanna wife women all his friends hit. Or a girl is known sl-t
The dumbest, most simpish, most idealistic of us will try it & fail (rare)
And even more rare is the experienced man wifing up a s-x worker.
But it happens, you do not want to live life based on the exception.
—
As for BW being “embarassed”.
1. To be able to get with one of these experienced men to even POP the question, is an accomplishment, which most women can lay claim to.
2. George Clooney, Derek Jeter are known p-ssy hounds. None of these women would be “embarassed” if these men asked them to do anything, whether it is SECKS or matrimony.
It is all about social status, and where the man stands in relation to other men.
Always remember:
Women SAY what they THINK, & DO what they FEEL.
This is why MEN get frustrated with WOMEN, because women will talk about how they want an UPSTANDING man, and entertain the most MORALLY BANKRUPT man in the land.
So, when you define WOMEN, make sure you elaborate on their ACTIONS, not what comes out of their claptraps.
I will try to put something together. Because I use basic biology, couple with how women behave in this s-xual marketplace.
BTW, you conceded from a OBSERVATIONAL standpoint, that if there are BM who have multiple kids by multiple women. You say math is your strong suit.
UPDATED:
The numbers (2012)
Click to access nhsr051.pdf
Go to page 4, row two
In general
Women (%56) vs Men (%45)
Black Women (62%) vs Black Men (49%)
1. Momma’s BABY Daddy’s MAYBE
The dad does not always make it to the birth certificate. And women can be such wh0res that they need to call Maury.
2. It is very easy for an ATTRACTIVE morally bankrupt man to knock up multiple women, than it is for a woman to have multiple kids by multiple men.
Basic biology. You are smart. I will not bore you with the explanation.
That is why it is so amazing that BW dubiously lead in that category
http://wzakcleveland.com/2665761/black-women-have-highest-rate-of-children-with-different-fathers/
This has been my problem for years. Black Men especially, the men who are fatherly/spouse-driven but boring & un-secks-zy, have legitimate gripes with BW. But BW act clueless, like BM are angry with BM for the most irrational reasons.
Remember we all taking azz whoopings from the White Supremacist System, so stop.
Mostly it comes down to black women SAYING one thing & DOING the other, especially when they made poor choices and cannot find decent men to clean up their mess.
And then you ignore a group of black men. Then you get upset & diss these black men when take talents elsewhere, because truth be told.
Life didn’t work out with the MEN you REALLY wanted to be with & now you are looking for your back-up black man, and HE is NOT available
You get what you successfully negotiate in life.
But please explain how BW are “being held to a standard that BM don’t reach themselves.”
Because LAST TIME I CHECKED, a broke woman can GET a RICH man. Does she have to be rich too?
A dumb azz stripper can get a smart man with money.
Do you have a problem with that?
An ugly, dumb dude can get a beautiful smart woman.
I am sure you outraged with that also.
So, I say all of that, I can ask for a CHASTE woman while sleeping with multiple women.
I can ask for a woman who is FEMININE, superior cooking skills & can be an excellent mother.
All of these things I can be deficient at.
You get what you successfully negotiate.
Nobody bats an eye when WOMEN successfully negotiates and OVER-ACHIEVES
But when men do it, it is a SOCIAL CRIME.
Also, that is why Divorce laws are changing. Because (white) women & high-value people are starting to pay alimony, so the laws need to be modified.
———————————————
SLIGHTLY OFF-TOPIC
And you keep forgetting. BLACK WOMEN HAVE DATING STANDARDS TOO.
There are men that don’t make the cut.
Nobody in MSM or on BLACK WOMEN’s MEDIA are outraged when Black Men are rejected by Black Women for ANY arbitrary reason.
So, black women KNOW how to SAY NO.
So, when black women’s decision lead to negative outcomes, I am sorry if black men are not the most sympathetic consider the way A LOT OF you treat us when you have SECKUAL POWER.
I agree, although I don’t believe this is pervasive,
And I don’t believe that black men are overlooking ABOVE-AVERAGE BW for AVERAGE WW.
Looks and/or mentality when I speak as far as quality.
Agreed
PSA:
N-gro B-d W-nch-s (NBW): The FEMALE version of an UNCLE TOM. BW who are lesbians who date white men for socio-political reasons. Sides with the dominant white society against ALL BLACK PEOPLE especially BLACK MEN.
Sometimes poses as agent provocateurs.
There is nothing wrong with BW dating & marrying non-BM. I 100% support BW who do this.
NBW are cancers to the black community.
Know the difference. And own it.
Agree to disagree. The loyalty argument does not add up.
I would love to see more married & single fathers. HOWEVER. These kinds of responsible BM are the least preferred by AMERICAN BW.
So, go figure.
Agreed, Black Men need to choose better women, regardless of race. That responsibility is totally on BM.
First of all, these men are famous. They can throw BW under the bus, and BW will still deal in some capacity.
Being attractive/famous gives you a HUGE margin of error.
And you talking about Stockholm Syndrome, masochistic American BW.
They will deal. Trust
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11. @EbonyMonroe
Totally agree.
However, if a black woman is fit, she is overweight by Eurocentric standards.
And if a black woman is GENETICALLY blessed with a great figure, her extra weight won’t hurt as much, in contrast to a black woman who has no figure.
Agreed!!! And, I am still waiting for the black female community to get over IR dating BM. They are not over it. Trust!
As a BM, who is the more feminine than I like to admit, I am very uncomfortable with women who surpass me in too many areas (except intelligence, but financially & emotionally, I have to be better)
If I don’t hold my end of the bargain, I can’t sustain that relationship.
Black feminists have not accomplished anything in America society.
What about BLACK FEMINISTS in the UK?
And now, I see why you are taking me through the chambers.
I think FEMINIST is a bad label, and Black Feminism & the BW who identify with the ideology, cannot even articulate their MISSION STATEMENT.
We don’t know who you are, or where you are going. And what TANGIBLES you are planning to acquire for AT LEAST BW, or the black community.
Good for you & yours. I do not think women adopting this POV works for most. But if you & your dude work it out. More power to you.
But people are more SIMILAR than they are DIFFERENT.
Men have to be leaders. And women instinctive want to follow men. They is a certain evolutionary comfort zone in that, which will not change in our lifetimes.
They are more the SAME. Than they are different.
Why are you & other BW so pressed ABOUT BM WHO DO date out? It matters & BW are bothered.
I wish you both well.
Okay.
Just like the bad behavior of SOME BW does not define ALL BLACK WOMEN.
When SOME BW decide to march or support BM for whatever reasons, it D@MN sure don’t reflect ALL BW.
See how that works.
—————————-
MADONNA is on BS. Some NON-BW are on BS. Black men have to pick carefully, and have a masterful handle on White Supremacy.
We have BW who defend BM
And we have BW who BASH BM.
Go figure
BW need to continue to support their own interests. If BM are apart of those interests, then ok. End. of.
My critiques were as accurate as the info I have in front of me.
I don’t defend BM malfeasance NOR do I make stuff up on BW.
You are defending BW for the same reason I enjoyed debating you. For kicks.
Cool beans.
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13. @EbonyMonroe
RESPECT.
I am surprised we are still going. Keep in mind. This is not about you. Or any other high-value BW.
I write for BM like @Sondis & @KS, not only for them to be less angry, but know the deal as thoroughly as possible.
I am a Pisces, New York Big City BM. Reads for fun. Definitely have my dysfunctions I have to correct before my children get here.
BM do not co-sign dysfunctional BM. We understand where they coming from.
But we don’t co-sign, or defend it. It is still a neg-negative on the neighborhood.
BW need to DISTANCE THEMSELVES from the RATCHET BW. Stop BLINDLY defending them. These BW are GOVERNMENT SUPPORTED.
Bus Driver Uppercut Video. Cause all I do is play the hits.
(http://www.worldstarhiphop.com/videos/video.php?v=wshhtq85q0suro3x38mr)
Because when it is time for you, black woman, to get chose, we unfairly LUMP you in with the RATCHETS.
Let those BW defend themselves.
There are so many BW out here who are LEGITIMATE VICTIMS, that you can spend 10 lifetimes! helping them. Those are the BW that need you the most.
Now, with dysfunctional BM is that women will still check for them. Even in all of their dysfunction, THIS is their theme song
“I don’t GAF about no haters, as long as my b*tches love me.”
(http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=KY44zvhWhp4&desktop_uri=%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DKY44zvhWhp4)
And I agree with them (DBM) 100%.
The ability to acquire & have women is KEY for men. It is what it is. THAT IS A HUGE AFFIRMATION for us.
One of the issues among the “Good BM” IS THAT WE get real High Horsey, thinking that we are better than these dysfunctional BM, ignoring the systemic problems. Mistakenly thinking that they wanna be this way.
And yes, there are impostors among our ranks. We, as men have to check that.
There are men who are “good” to the world & but treat their women like the trash on the corner.
RESPECT
You are quite right. Their are good black women all over the place in NYC. I acknowledge that with every fiber of my being.
1. However, they are not always single, they are not always EASY to FIND.
2. And then I am not always ready to receive them (be attractive enough, & emotionally sound enough to deal with them).
An unfortunate reality about dating today, is that ALOT OF THINGS HAVE TO GO RIGHT. Timing matters.
And we don’t need each other like we did when Jim Crow ruled the land (even though we do.)
We have to manage our expectations.
It is nothing wrong with having children OOW. The issue is what you described below. As long as the child is well-taken care of, especially by the MAN. Marriage is not relevant.
HOWEVER, there are STRONGER legal ramifications for a HUSBAND who steps out on his WIFE. Then a man who steps out on a woman he has had RELATIONS with.
Yes ma’am. Because unless these women are rape survivors, at some point we have to examine female mating choices.
That transcends MEN. And that transcends WHITE SUPREMACY.
Not to say that these two issues don’t impact it, or to not highlight that WHITE WOMEN can mess up, and have a system in place to “cover up her sins.”
I can dig it.
That is the same thing will happen to me, when I hit the UK. Because we are only going to see the BEST of what our cities have to offer. And the familiarity of your home city can wear on you.
That can go both ways.
“Good” Black men in the US lack GAME, and the wherewithal (or the perseverance) to go to the right areas where “good” black women.
I cannot speak for “Good” black women, because I immediate assume that they are doing OK. Maybe they are not doing the right things as well.
Unlike the 1950s. If you want a great relationship, most people have to work at it.
“Good Guys” need GAME. The same skills that the DYSFUNCTIONAL BM have to knock up the neighborhood.
Men who are socially awkward & unSECKzy need to learn those techniques.
It is not a GOOD/BAD thing.
It is an ATTRACTIVE/UNATTRACTIVE thing.
I am going to keep going, I have to finish up your stuff.
Don’t take it personal. When you are debating strangers on-line
who you have never had dinner with, to intimately feel their energy & body language. It is silly to get negatively emotionally wrapped up.
1. Because it is FUN. I am all the way turned up. It is hard for me to get excited about anything.
2. Because the thread demands it.
3. Because everybody is going to be better off with information that they might not have been privy to.
Blogging has open up the eyes of many FASTER than our ancestors.
Hopefully we make better decisions going forward with all the good information.
Good Day
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(15.) @EbonyMonroe
I think I mentioned the parents & the type of men, women pick. If you are getting raped at 13 & under, your parents are not doing right by you.
And if you are in a sh-tty neighborhood (where most criminal activity happens due to socially constructed systemic poverty), you should not be procreating until you move out.
Am I saying that if you decide to stay in that predatory neighborhood, do you “deserve” to get raped? Well, no, but it is an unfortunate casualty of living in poverty.
If family members (not friends & strangers) are the majority of rapists, then there is nothing you can do about it, and you need to grin & bear it.
For those who can move out, do so.
For the weak & those born into an unfortunate situation, who cannot rise above those obstacles. It is time to die & meet your maker.
LOL
There is no point in marrying IR, IMO. Just because I date & marry a black chick, does not mean I cannot be critical of black women. Whatever tho.
Consider the self-inflicted BS American BW DO put themselves through, dealing with me is a CAKE WALK.
Thanks for playing. And you Black Feminists & NBWs need to go! Y’all are a cancer to the black community.
Here we go…
………………………………………………………………….
Quick thoughts on this post.
1. It is nice for a black male to bring awareness to INTRA-racial issues.
Unfortunately, guys like him are not the preferred choice by black women.
But black women will use his voice to try to argue like what you are doing now. And still sleep with & be a baby mother to a guy like Nathan McCall.
Am I lying?
2. DJ Black Adam seems to mean well. So do you to some degree.
You can be purposely myopic for the sake of trying to BE RIGHT instead of GETTING IT RIGHT.
3. Liking certain type of men have PROS & CONS. That is PARTLY what contributed to that young girl’s getting a TRAIN ran on her. I hope I never marry a woman like that.
A lot of girls like her posing as good women who were former sl-ts
That black girl’s mating habits are questionable. And you still wanna tap dance around that.
Date who you like, but be ready for the full consequences of your choices. Good or bad.
If I cannot find a good black woman to date, then I gotta holla at a WOMAN of COLOR in the world.
Black women need to do the same, not deal with sh-tty black men, and then complaining to unattractive decent black men about it.
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(16.) @EbonyMonroe
Sum up her points please.
I am familiar with this girl. This happened in Detroit. The same city where black men are trying to police their own community & some h00drats are trying to undermine them through litigation.
http://www.myfoxdetroit.com/story/19456300/women-suing-detroit-300-city-over-questioning-at-police-precinct
It is unfortunate.
That was funny.
It is unfortunate
The same BW could choose better men to procreate with. I know, it is hard. Lol
agreed.
Who lines up to be in their music videos WILLINGLY? & pay to be apart of their concerts. I know, they were FORCED somehow, right?
It just kills your misogyny argument, and the whole “why you keep calling BW b-tches & h-es”, when you at least acknowledged b-tches & h-es show up to the concert. It makes you black women seem hypocritical.
They challenge black men who they admit are mostly powerless (but will claim we are empowered in a BS argument), but they will not challenge white men & their f-ckery. Why? Because they wanna get WITH white men.
Black women are not consistent & accurate with their arguments. That is y’all are not taken seriously.
Lol. You & this (black) patriarchy nonsense. We can end this here.
Agree to disagree.
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(17.) @EbonyMonroe
Fam, you are FOSh-t, right now.
The only reason, you & other black women have a problem with guys like me ATTACKING & criticizing you, because I am ATTACKING & criticizing you. You don’t want to own your BS.
If I said positive things about BW, even if it was an opinion or it was false. I would not hear a peep out of you.
If you don’t want to take responsibility or change as black women, that is fine, now the ball is on BLACK MEN to choose not to deal with you.
I concede that my perspective on life is small compared to the big world out there & that as I get more information, perspective evolves.
But my perspective is not credible, that is you, just not wanting to face the American perspective of BM.
And you wanna give BW A PASS, which makes you feel good in the moment, but hurts you long-term.
You are playing games. It is getting tiresome
1. Married black men & women only make up 25% of the BLACK COMMUNITY.
What about the other 75% who are unmarried. Marriage is not VALUABLE for these women so, they don’t strive towards it, for whatever reason.
Now, if black men are doing all this raping out here, then maybe dating out IS the answer.
I contend that black women like these kinds of black men, otherwise they would avoid them.
And are every single one of these rapist, seasoned con artists. And are black women that naive & dumb?
Are you making a case for black female inferiority? Which is weird.
It sounds like a small number of black men (5%-10%) actually “rape”.
And lot of time, we use young women who willingly have s-x with older men & women who regret sleeping with certain dudes as “rape” as well.
Do BLACK MEN get killed at a higher clip or not?
It just MATTERS to you more when a BLACK WOMAN is a victim. Which is not a surprise.
Sperm is cheap. Eggs are expensive. I get it.
Be more specific. Because the ONLY reason that the average MAN has a “voice” now is because of the INTERNET. And that only has been for PUBLIC CONSUMPTION for maybe 20 years.
Black men didn’t really start GOING IN CRITICALLY on BLACK WOMEN until 2007, and largely INTERNET access played a role.
I don’t remember black women criticisms before that time.
NOW, airing out our grievances with WHITE SUPREMACY. Please explain.
Black women not having a voice to complain, huh? Are you serious?
That is why SIMPS are in trouble now, for actually taking your complaint SERIOUSLY.
Because it is doesn’t apply to MOST black men. Even a lot of black women either.
A lot of times an OLDER BW passes down their misery to YOUNG BW. Go figure.
Really? Explain.
How are you even in existence if some your grievances were not addressed.
Please sum this video up, so I get what you are trying to convey. I do not have the time to watch it.
So, are you telling me MOSTLY BLACK WOMEN were getting killed while MOSTLY BLACK MEN were behind the scenes JUST CHILLING, like “y’all got this.”
Last time I checked, MOSTLY BLACK MEN were BEING ASSASSINATED back then. It was a dangerous time. Correct me if I am wrong!
Also, how are BLACK MEN needs DIFFERENT than BLACK WOMEN?
Last time I checked, RACISM is systematic.
Are you trying to peddle that false idea that BLACK MEN are more privilege?
I am just trying to figure out where are you going with this.
And black women were doing 60% or more of the work? Really? And black men were just taking advantage?
You really need more people.
Ok. Fair enough.
Ok.
You mean, I didn’t include that in my comments. Ok.
Yes it is.
It is unfortunate.
It is unfortunate.
I know of them.
This is the second black male you used to argue a point. I have done the same using black women. Just pointing that out.
I guess your source are more credible. Whatever.
It was a good post.
I really don’t what they decide to do. They are worthless to me. And choices have consequences. Social constructs be damned.
At some point, you are going to have to fight or die. No excuses.
First of all, I do not remember any link stating only 30% of black men who you procreate with are THUGS or NO GOOD & the other 70% are regular black men. If you got that link, this is the perfect time to share it.
And again, if black men are this bad, even MY type, you look worse for sleeping with them & procreating with them.
Getting a white dude makes sense at this point.
Tbh, I really don’t care if black women get raped or not. Support the men who you give your bodies & attention to. Simple.
I only care about the women who take care of me, and who I am f-cking.
Tommy Sotomayor probably does more for black people in America than you do for blacks on both continents, America & Europe.
This is about when people say negative sh-t about BW, true or false, that BW have a problem with.
Black women have no problem being lied to, especially if someone is saying something nice about them.
I don’t defend BM malfeasance, I just asked why these bad BM always have women around them, if they are so bad.
I am serious. There is a reason why they do not report it. I don’t believe the unreported stat, but these heaux need to speak up.
Because some of these black women are worthless to me.
And they have to figure out how to overcome the things that hold them back.
At least that is what BM are asked to do. With less help.
BM are the best choice at the moment. If a better choice presents itself, BW will jump on it. non-BM are not the best choice.
You keep trying to argue loyalty, and there are too many scorned BM who have personal experience alone to disprove your & @peanut’s assertion.
Deal with actual issues of BW. Not BM reporting the issues. Big difference.
I loved how you tap-dance around in this exchange.
Doesn’t fit the BW’s Professional Victim Hustle. LOL. You have agency too.
Acknowledge it. use it.
Still tap-dancing! You need quality shoes tho to get the full effect.
We really don’t want to criticize BW mating choices. Which means you have no right to complain about BM, since you don’t know how to pick ’em. Or have sense enough to date IR if BM are not serving your needs.
But these women feel like despite their bad luck with BM, that they are still the best choice. The most ATTRACTIVE choice. Because if BW felt like other races of men were more attractive AND the perceived consequences were not great, they would go for it.
But they know the grass is not MOSTLY greener on the other side.
http://m.essence.com/2013/04/08/intimacy-intervention-my-husband-uses-racial-slurs-during-sex/
Loyalty and Desire are two different things.
Of course I do not use stats or link. I know.
Having kids before you are ready (with inadequate men) outside of rape, is not an excuse. That needs to continue to be highlighted.
Really. Explain. Because in America. black feminists have no CLAIM to fame. Not one law has been passed. Not one dime has been allocated for black people, esp BW, because of a feminist.
If black feminists in the UK got something done in their homeland, different story.
If I am wrong. Please correct me. And do not black female civil right leaders, because they were not black feminists.
Aims & actual TANGIBLE work accomplishments, two different things
See above. What tangibles have black feminists contributed to the American black community or the UK black community (which I will not be shocked if there is an actual contribution there.)
I know, you cannot criticize BW for anything. I get it.
And you need to log off. Lol.
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Adonis the girl who was g@ngraped was a child. The man who wrote the article is happily married to a Black woman. I’m not a cancer to my community, Black skin in White masks are the cancers. Just like Abagond said, a great number of African Americans are racists, filled with hatred towards their own, and completely overflowing with White supremacist doctrine. How dare you allude to that little Black girl being a sl-t, she wasn’t dating anyone, she was attacked because she trusted she would be safe in the home of a boy from her neighborhood who she probably grew up with. I would imagine that girls in their neighborhoods, or schools and other places where these things happen, are not thinking about the possibility of being g@ngraped. You said Lol @ little Black girls being g@ngraped in Chicago, being disregarded. When you can’t blame BW you say “just grin and bear it.” The only person being shamed here is the BW who raised you. I pray to God you marry out or not at all. You say I need to get over myself, I am over talking to sickos like yourself, but you need to get on yourself, because you don’t sound like you should be allowed into society. You sound criminally insane. If White people are racists because they benefit from White supremacy and will not challenge it; if the response makes you guilty, and a participant in the crime/inequality/oppression, then you’re a pedophile, a rapist, a muderer of BW, and you are their oppressor. This conversation is well and truly over, I have better things to do with my time than talk to some bigoted, mentally colonialized, self hating, emotionally undone, White man-child. If anything, you have made a case for why BW struggle with BM at times, a weave is one thing, but your violently colonialized mind is another thing. Go hate yourself by yourself.
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@Adonis
After reading through your post again, and thinking on it a second time. The fact that you brought up a child’s (who was a 13 year old virgin) mating habits, alluded to the little Black girl posing as a good woman who was actually a sl-t, and implying that the child’s g@ngrape was her own fault, no disrepect, but not only has this debate come to an end, but I’m not interested in talking to you, at all, in any other posts or threads on this board, or anywhere else. If you should decided to @Ebonymonroe me, just to let you know, I will be scrolling past your posts in future.
May God help you, and those (Black children/girls and women), who come across your path, in this life.
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@Adonis
I will wrap up my counter position in this debate using the following full stop…
Baby Mama Drama: Explaining Conservative Deception About Out-of-Wedlock Births in the Black Community.
Ever since my post two days ago, in which I detailed the way the right, a) distorts evidence about social pathology in black communities with regard to crime and out-of-wedlock childbirth, and b) routinely ignores those pathologies that are prevalent in white spaces, I’ve been bombarded with requests for further clarification. Specifically, about the matter of out-of-wedlock childbearing among black women. Folks are apparently confused by the evidence and would like to better understand what I was saying and why conservative arguments about this issue are entirely fraudulent.
I agree that the data is confusing, and so I will try and explain it as clearly as possible.
First, to recap: when conservatives argue that there is an “illegitimacy” crisis in black America, and that rising out-of-wedlock birthrates are the real cause of black folks’ problems, they demonstrate an inability to actually understand statistics. The fact is, the birth rate for unmarried black women (births per 1000 such women of childbearing age) is dropping, not rising. For black teens, the birth rate has fallen by half since 1970 and is now at its lowest point ever, and for black women generally the out-of-wedlock birthrate is down by about a third in that same period of time.
However, as conservatives note, it is also true that the percentage of black births that are out-of-wedlock as a share of all black births has risen, nearly doubling since 1970, and now stands at just over 72 percent.
Both of these things are true: declining birth rates and fertility rates for unmarried black women (i.e., unmarried black women are increasingly being more and more “responsible” in conservative terms, not less), and also a climbing share of out-of-wedlock kids as a share of all black kids born.
The reason for these seemingly contradictory trends can best be explained like this:
Imagine a community of 100,000 people of childbearing age (50,000 men and 50,000 women), where half the men and women are married and half of each are single. Of the 25,000 single women, imagine that 500 had babies this year. This would represent a very small number, and an unmarried birth rate of 20 babies per 1000 women. You could also represent this by saying that only about 2% of single women in this community would have a baby out of wedlock this year, since most women would have only one child per year, and so the 500 babies born likely represent roughly 500 of the 25,000 women too.
But let’s say that that same year, for whatever reason, only 200 of the married women gave birth. In that case, 500 of the 700 babies born, or over 71 percent of all babies born in this community would be out-of-wedlock! Oh my God! Send out the cultural police! But note, this result would not in any way reflect the widespread misbehavior of single women and their male companions — after all 98 percent of all unmarried women are not giving birth — but rather, it would reflect the fact that married couples were simply having even fewer kids than single women were.
And in fact, that is what has happened in the U.S. Even though single black women have cut back on how many babies they have while unmarried, married black women have cut back even further. So if single black women have reduced their birthrates by a third, but married couples have cut theirs by over half, or even two-thirds (which is the case), then obviously the percentage of births in the black community that are out-of-wedlock will rise.
The reason it is unfair for conservatives to seize upon the latter of these facts while ignoring the context that explains it, is that their argument is first and foremost that black folks need to stop having babies out of wedlock. But the data says they are already cutting back on that, and dramatically so. In other words, the trend lines in that regard are positive. To suggest a pathological — and increasingly so — black culture when it comes to out-of-wedlock childbirth is entirely dishonest. If anything, “black culture” if we really want to suggest it is linked to the decision to bear children out-of-wedlock, must be improving, rather than regressing. So conservatives should be celebrating these trends.
Meanwhile, as I noted — and since black single women are already cutting back on childbearing — there is only one other way that that 72 percent number could be brought down. But it is unlikely that conservative white folks are going to push for it: namely, if black couples started having 5, 6, even 10 kids each, that number (the percentage of black births that are out of wedlock as a percentage of all black births) would be cut in half within a year or so. So, since single black women are already behaving increasingly “responsibly” in terms of their childbearing behavior, how about it white folks? How about we push for a massive increase in married black womens’ fertility? Maybe pass out fertility drugs so they can have triplets and quads? Maybe encourage them to go the “full Dugger family” and have 20? That way, the share of out-of-wedlock births in the black community can plummet and everyone can stop talking about shit they don’t understand. Oh, and the black population would also skyrocket, so…
Yeah, I didn’t think so.
.
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(Cont.)
Source…
http://www.timwise.org/2013/08/baby-mama-drama-explaining-conservative-deception-about-out-of-wedlock-births-in-the-black-community/
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What a horrible costume, Peanut.
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@EbonyMonroe
You can run, your antics are tiresome.
The same argument Tim Wise (who is thorough & relevant) makes about single black motherhood (which was a great argument), the same could be said about rape in America & it’s decline over the years.
http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/nation/2009-10-06-rape-decline_N.htm
But It doesn’t help your professional victim narrative so I presume that those relevant stats don’t matter.
Good Day
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@ Legion
At some point WordPress’s tagging mechanism broke and I got out of the habit. “Stuff” is the default because everything is “stuff”. I will start using it again going forward.
I might go back and tag some older posts. Are there any categories you would like to see?
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@Peanut,
You know those clowns were at an all white Halloween party. Idiots. No way they would have showed up with those costumes in the Hood.
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@Adonis
The 60% of Black girls statistic is very recent. There is absolutely no correlation between Tim Wise’s findings regarding oow births in the Black community and a finding that the majority of Black girls have been sexually abused. Nothing at all. Yes statistics can be distorted, but in this instance, in the context you’re alluding to, when all is said and done, they’re numbers, not pieces of music open to interpretation.
Rape stats have dropped in America because of tougher sentencing, but still, guess which community, which is generally at the bottom of the totem pole economically; in terms of policing, and socially; is still hovering at 60%?
Yes I consider children who have been raped, innocent BM thrown in jail, or serving ridiculous sentences for illegal activity to put food on the table because they’re the least likey to get hired, and then being made to serve tougher sentences than WM murderers; victims. Yes I do. That’s exactly what oppression is. BM and BW are not waking up saying, “you know what I need with my coffee to set the day off just right? Go head and gimme some of that oppression right quick.”
Are there preventative measures we can learn for aspects of these cyles? Yes.
Do I expect us to keep pushing for improvement? Absolutely. Would I become frustrated if we didn’t? Of course.
You’re the victim thinker, Adonis. You’re angry about White supremacy, Black men who you see getting attention from the ladies, BM who are trying, getting caught up and falling below your “being Black in America superhero” fairytale, and you are completely overflowing with the feeling of being hard done by and victimised by Black women, that you’re packed with hatred. You don’t make any sense, you dance around points presented to counter them with hate speech instead of processing the information and perspective presented, and then discussing that. And then you take it a step further by calling a Black child who was molested, a sl-t. It’s a waste of time. Go over to the “Your blog is anti White” thread. The same ignorant arguments and oppression blaming ignorant White folks throw at the Black community, is the exact same rhetoric and school of thought you have used. It’s identical. But you have taken it a step further by laughing at and insulting the things that Black men and Black women face, and even children. Who calls a molested child a sl-t? What is wrong with you?
I’m an introvert, I’m the same star sign, it doesn’t have anything to do with that. You need help, man. But I’m gonna help myself by removing myself from conversing with you because it is not healthy.
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@EbonyMonroe
Shut your mouth when you speak to me young girl.
I just highlighted how rape in America is down, just like you highlighted OOW births for all black women, married & unmarried is down. You tap-danced around that fact.
Never mind these rapists mostly come from single black mothers.
But that is irrelevant, the thing that you fail to realize is WHO can EFFECTIVELY make RAPE a rarity in the black community.
Black men who GAF, who are empowered, who are in the position to actually PRACTICE PATRIARCHY. Which requires black male empowerment (money & resources)
Which is NON-EXISTANT IN the American Black Family. Yet black feminist try to con you thinking otherwise.
But at every turn, black feminists talk about black patriarchy as a bad thing.
But want all the benefits (protections & female privileges that American white women enjoy) that come with it & none of the downsides (white women cannot openly date black men, sexual restrictions, gotta stay fit, feminine & childless if you want a husband).
And a black patriarchy would infringe on your sexual freedoms to sleep with whomever, whenever.
You gotta give to get.
But if you really GAF about rape, you would support the very men who would in the position to be a deterrent for rapists.
Which the American BW mostly doesn’t. And pays a steep price for in the long run.
Case & point, the men being undermined in Detroit 300 for trying to police their own communities.
So go somewhere with that fake Knee-Grow outrage. You are a disservice for all black female rape victims.
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@legion
Not my phrase, but in the nonsensical nature of the phrase, they get the message
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Thank you great and powerful Legion. (Tips hat.)
ADONIS, WHAT IS IT I FIND MYSELF REPEATING OVER AND OVER AGAIN THAT YOU DON’T SEEM TO UNDERSTAND.
I have not asked you to defend BW, I have only come from the position that as a BW we have the right to defend ourselves from men like yourself attacking us and little Black girls, in word or in deed. Just like you have the right to speak up when you’re attacked because of your race, we/I have the right to speak up when I/we are attacked for our race and gender.
I didn’t tap dance around anything, I simply stated that although rape stats are down in America, the 60% stat is still present in the Black community, so there is no correlation to be made between Tim Wise’s findings on OOW birth false propaganda in the Black community, and the persistent high rate of misogynistic sexual violence against Black girls.
I do not know of any stat that says the men committing these crimes are from single Black mothers, and if there is one, you will also have to find the stat showing that the fathers were documented as bad choices, because of xyz. Nathan Mccall grew up in a two parent household in a middle class area. Why did Nathan go on to do what he did? There is no excuse for what he did, but he said it was because he hated himself, and in turn, the girls who reflected him the most. After the point of providing a picture of the ways in which BW are oppressed as Blacks and as females, in the judicial sense, the economic sense, which makes their oppressions just as potent and as valid as BM, which is something you initially said was untrue, but recently came to agree with in an above post; I then went onto highlight that your attitude towards the humanity of Black females and the prevalence of it in our community, is a great contribution to Black females encountering these horrific experiences.
I have spent two lengthy posts highlighting what Black feminism is about, but you continue to argue with a definition of Black feminism that is completely erroneous. I have already alluded to the fact that I have no problems with Black male leadership, and I’ve never stated anything to the contrary. I have already repeatedly stated that one of Black feminism/womanism’s greatest goals, is for the empowerment of BM, but somehow you’re not able to compute a word of it. When Black feminism talks about patriarchy, they are talking about male oppression, not leadership, in the same way that talking about racism is not about being anti White.
As I’ve said time and TIME AGAIN, 75% OF BW ARE MARRIED BY 35, AND A GREAT MANY OF THEM ARE MARRIED TO BM. ALSO, BM STATISTICALLY spend the most amount of time with their children our of ALL MEN! Also BM, above BW, run all the mos profitable businesses, the civil rights organizations, the religious institutions, and basically, pretty much every power confined to the Black community. So to say BM leadership, domestically and communally, is non existent in the Black community is a very sad story you have playing in your head over and over again, but is completely contrary to the truth, Adonis. Do you understand?
You take one story out of Chicago and apply it to all BW, it is so ridiculous that I refuse to go over using a few cases that are not statistical enough to prove they’re even remotely prevalent. Please, stop the stupidity of using random confirmation bias when talking about an entire peopke group, like some KKK member playing a video of BM robbing liquor stores to prove that all BM need to go. It’s unintelligent, and quite frankly, it’s getting childish.
Secondly, WW were the first to start feminism, the trick has been that their men eventually accepted it and supported its aims. You could flip that and say why don’t you embrace empowering your women instead of calling your daughters/sisters sl-ts when they have been g@ngraped like some Master slave owner’s son who mimics his dad.
How dare you sit there and call a 13 year old Black girl who was violently g@ngraped a sl-t. A child, a young child, who you said you pray you will never have to meet because she’s so disgusting to you. How dare you laugh at the deaths of a Black girl just a few years out of being a toddler, as a result of police brutality. How dare you tell me Tommy Sotomayor saying Trayvon was the one who deserved to die and his mother’s just a hair hatted hooligan, straight after the Zimmerman verdict; is doing a service for MY NOT YOUR MY COMMUNITY and then tell me, after all that that I’m a diservice. I’m no kn6egro ya understan? I’m a grown Black woman, who wasn’t even raised by a BW, so what does that say about your parents.
If we were face to face we could not have this conversation, you’re making my blood boil. If you’ve had trouble with BW the reasons why is obvious. All I want you to do is not bother me anymore. Okay? Just leave it.
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i am still really frosted like really?
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Just read up on the movie Belle. It is based on the true story of Dido Elizabeth Belle. If anyone has a book on her they are willing to recommend then please do. I am interested in learning more before watching the movie.
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know what on some real ish i dont get the hispanic is not a race think granted mestizo and aborigneal is a issue but la raza i read that much of the spanish threads its wierd hispanic white hispanic on the .gov forms also
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http://www.upworthy.com/we-have-been-mislead-by-an-erroneous-map-of-the-world-for-500-years?c=ufb2
Apologies if I’m the last person to catch on to this.
Clearly it has relevance to the way Europeans present their (or “our” – I’m one) view of the world.
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@Rick Buddhuu
Very interesting video.
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@Adonis
You’ve said some EXTREMELY offensive things, but still, the tone and wording of my above is rude. And for that, I apologise.
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@ Sharina:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gall%E2%80%93Peters_projection
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@EbonyMonroe
Being nice probably works in the UK. I am a New Yorker.
Since you have been trying to shove “Rape” down my throat for the past 2 weeks, it all comes full circle in America
80% of rapists with anger problems come from fatherless homes –14 times the average. (Justice & Behavior, Vol 14, p. 403-26)
Good Day
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@Adonis
Please rest yourself right quick. I was already clear that if you’re going to provide stats on rapists coming from single BW, your going to have to provide research that the BM fathers were obviously not going to be good mates/fathers, so it rests entirely on the mothers and their choices, which you can’t. People can’t see into the future to always know that the mate they picked will not stick around, and that the relationship will not work out. Meaning, the blame is on two. And since BM statistically spend the most time with their children, it is not as if they’re not involved in shaping their children’s characters. Rape was a small part of my commentary on the list of things BW go through, as far as oppression, that makes their oppressions just a systematic as BM. BW systematic oppression and disadvantage being on equal footing as BM oppression was something you initially completely disagreed with, but later came to agree with in an above post. The truth is, you have spent two weeks making the case that molested and sexually abused Black girls are responsible for their own traumas, by way of being reckless, which is something I have disproven case by case. Each case contrary to your assumptions steeped from stereotypes. By dropping varying cases, like Dunbar village, the case of the girl from California at her prom (from a two parent household), the 11 year old girl in Texas, etc. Secondly, I made a strong case that misogyny and hatred of Black girls is too communally accepted, and this shapes the way Black girls are treated not only by some Black boys/men, but by our civil rights organizations/leaders (Al Sharpton’s stance with Dunbar village), and by the Black community in general. It’s not a stretch to imagine a man like yourself handing down and breeding your hatred for Black girls and women in your future sons, and those very sons, (hypothetical context), acting out that hatred. Because you have zoomed in with atrocious accusations, time after time, pertaining to such a heavy subject matter, unfortunately, we have been stuck on it. It is not a subject I am particularly fond of discussing. It’s heavy.
I’m not nice because I’m British, I’m a Londoner and we are generally the equivalents of New Yorkers, when it comes to being blunt. I’m respectful because I’m a mature adult who believes in treating people the way I would like to be treated.
You have failed to see me on anything, thus far. I’ve taken your arguments to pieces, there is no room for you to move, your just wriggling in permanent check-mate position. But your pride won’t let you see this.
Always a good day. God bless.
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@Adonis
I see you conveniently edited out the almost 50 strong responses from Black women DEFENDING Black men over that Madonna article, on an under-the-radar-thread. And the Black male responses almost defending Madonna, by alluding to still being up to being with Madonna in her prime, and by bypassing her offensive comments to attack and degrade the BW posters, WHILE THEY WERE DEFENDING BM! (Giggles.)
Not wholly unlike you attacking me/us (as BW) while I’ve been busy DEFENDING Black women AND BM.
This is the pattern I’ve (personally) seen.
(Classic! Giggles gone wild.)
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This will probably get lost among the posts, but I wonder, with so many writers here on Abagond if any of you have any experience doing spoken word?
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8apdW8aQGuw)
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wow adonis is like a black xpraetorious now look at that ish — he’s on team tommy, i listened to sotomayor a minute last night, he still got that white girl with him
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@v8driver
I didn’t even know he had a White girlfriend. If that’s the case, why continue to focus on BW? Why not just enjoy the woman you’ve found who you’re happy with? It’s weird.
I could tell Adonis was a Tommy Sotomayor fan, I can always tell by the philosophy. But the philosophy doesn’t stand with fact, so, I don’t know. You might as well just marry out and be at peace, I see no point in spending day in, day out, bursting and meditating on hatred for an entire group of woman. With slavery there was an economic agenda behind it, and it was realized. Hitler had a political motive for his hatred. But this kind, there’s nothing to be gained from it, at all.
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@Ebonymonroe
“I could tell Adonis was a Tommy Sotomayor fan”
I followed the exchanges between you and him. I bow to your efforts. But I couldn’t understand why you were wasting your time with the likes of him. I think that black women like you try so hard to get black men to see what’s best for them, but you won’t succeed. They’re an energy-suck. They don’t want black women but they try to justify why they pretend to hate whites and yet lust after white women.
I agree with you that it would be so much better if he married a non-black woman. Marry the kind of woman or man you find easiest to respect and appreciate. He stated over and over all the problems he has appreciating a black woman. I would hate to imagine the kind of life a black woman would have with a character like him. She’ll be in for an uphill battle and she won’t even know it.
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@Jaylis
I know, I know. I’ve only ever had this debate twice. The last one was more political, and he wasn’t particularly hateful, he was very intelligent just with a very biased view. He began back tracking when I presented the facts, and then he ran away from the debate when he could see he’d lost. I saw a BM debate this with “anti BW BM” once, it was the same, they bounced when there was no where left to go. This one was more of the extreme type you come across online that I’ve never ever engaged with before. I started off by responding to a short post, but the debate continued. It was not as hateful and as extreme in the beginning.
To be honest, I’ve always been curious to see how it would pan out if I took the time to deconstruct this anti BW philosophy with the contrary stats. Being the daughter of one from the political field, as well as the daughter of an African American/American studies educator. I’ve been sick off of work for a few weeks and was bored. This has been most rewarding believe it or not. Like many, when I encountered the BW hate speech on youtube, the various holes in the arguments made me wonder what the response would be to the contrary, factual, rational, and stat and historically backed truth.
Would it crumble?
How would the argument come back from it?
Is it purely emotional, racist rhetoric that will show itself to be completely irrational, emotional, and childlike? I got my closure.
The second value gained: Where I was a staunch believer in being a champion of the Black nuclear family unit, just as much as, (if not more so), than interracial marriage, for the sake of the whole community, I now understand that it is imperative that members marry out, not for the reasoning of love, but for the sake of the whole community, no matter what. Lastly, I have come to understand the misogyny in our community, the deeply hurt, fractured, and the emotional anguish behind the hate speech. This being the truth, it no longer provokes anger, or even concern. It doesn’t provoke sympathy, but it does not anger or concern me anymore.
I don’t watch those videos on youtube, and I’m not heavy across the online space to encounter it. This just happened to present itself, and it closed a lot of open ended questions and concerns, for me, as a young BW.
I didn’t do it to convert, it was more out of curiosity and the chance to validate BW through using facts.
Sista, I grew from this.
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@Jayis @EbonyMonroe
As far as dating out, I will marry a black woman, and have non-Black Women as side-pieces & mistresses.
It makes no sense to have a non-black wife. Unless she is LOADED financially.
I don’t back down from @EbonyMonroe’s arguments because I know what I am talking about, I am mostly objective, and @EbonyMonroe has not said anything PROFOUND I have not heard.
It is light work.
Those tap-dancing shoes, the drugs she takes. I need all of that. My life would be better for it.
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@Jaylis
(Cont), I believe there are very few BW to be found amongst us who would put up with this kind of thing. I’ve only ever come across 3, but that was online. One was a BW who made videos cosigning anti BW BM and their philosophy, she ended up becoming a p0rn star performing 0ral s3x on some White girl for money, on tape. They loved her, and then turned when they found out about the p0rn. Lol. But this is to be expected, no normal well balanced, self respecting BW will be willing to deal with that. The cosigning BW will inevitably be the very destructive, insecure, self hating, BW they rally against. I honestly don’t really see how any of these cats would be able to find a BW to settle down with. It’s just not gonna happen. They’ll grow more and more bitter from rejection and bad experiences, from BW walking away, after discovering this.
There was this Black guy who’s comments I stumbled across a few months ago. His initial comments were about hating BW. Then they were about hating Hispanic women as well as BW. He’ll try White, and then Asian women, until there are no groups left, all the while not grasping the fact that the problem is him.
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Lol. FACTS are not profound, but your opinion formed from your bad choices in women, is right, right? Lol. And 2×2 being 4 can be argued if someone’s opinion is that it’s 7, even though it being 4 is fact, right?
The good book says that the man who finds a good wife has found favor with the Lord. I’ll just pray that God will keep BW/Gs safe and away from you and leave it at that. That is the best that can be done.
Peace.
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@Ebonymonroe
I want to thank you because the exchange opened my eyes to somethings I was once very much in denial of. BW Hate. Even with the post abagond did on Tommy S. I was still a bit skeptical about anyone “really” following that guy. I was wrong and in a sense it saddens me, but at the same time it is closure.
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@Ebonymonroe
“Sista, I grew from this.”
Not quite a “sista” at least not in the sense you probably mean, but I AM a sista thinker.
“all the while not grasping the fact that the problem is him.”
Black men like him can’t bring themselves to face that and the gulf separating them from the way most black women think is too wide in too many ways. Yet they fixate on black women. It’s good to read what you say that not many black women would put up with the likes of him. Very bad for a black woman’s mental health. Abagond is doing black women a favor by exposing the mindsets of black men like this character.
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@Sharina
You go through a stage of shock, then you’re saddened, then angry, then confused. When you come to find out how prevalent this is in the Black community.
(This is in general and not about or directed at any one person, at all.) But the truth is, we’re okay. These are not the men BW are after as friends, or as boyfriends, or husbands, they’re not suitable. These seem to be the guys who are at the bottom because they have behavioral problems, and perhaps don’t have the things all women tend to gravitate towards particularly as a rule when they’re very young: charisma, a silly sense of humor, intelligence, confidence, an easy going nature, kindness, stability, values, looks, s-x appeal.
Women like this tend to grow to hate themselves. They develop body image issues, become fixated on cosmetic surgery, they internalize the rejection and lash out at themselves. Whereas these men, project it on the group of women they had bad encounters with, and become fixated on harboring and lashing out.
Mate selection has a way of fixing, by weeding out. I feel people who bleach their skin are sad, but I don’t feel sad, it doesn’t make me lose sleep over it. Men like Ike Turner are sad, but I’m not going to ever have to deal with an Ike Turner, it’s sad, but it doesn’t make me sad. I’m not going to lose sleep over it.
It’s for the best that these things be brought out into the open. Ignorance is not bliss. You learn how to drive, you learn the warning signs; it’s to make you a better driver. It should cause you to sleep better at night.
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Amen Jaylis, Amen.
I know a non BW married to a BM like this. He didn’t reveal this until long after they got married (his hatred for BW). She finds it pathetic, and weird. He hates his nose, his skin, his hair, as well. She has a mixed race/Black daughter from a previous LTR. She gets very worried about her daughter being around him. The daughter isn’t a child, and the BM husband is not more jaded in his views than spitting with hatred, but she still worries and finds it pathetic. It’s strange, a Caucasian woman having to protect her Black daughter from a BM. It was strange seeing non BM married to BW, angrily attacking anti BW videos on youtube by BM, for over their wives, and telling these BM they’re racist, that their wives aren’t like that, that they’re generalizing. I’ve even come across WW apologizing in the comments section saying “I’m so sorry your men are like that, they really suck.” This is a 180 flip I never saw coming in a million years it’s quite ironic. Thankfully, I’m aware of many BM who are not like that. I just feel bad for them because I know they find these displays undignified and humiliating.
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^^^
*is moreso jaded in his views than spitting with hatred
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@Ebonymonroe
“She has a mixed race/Black daughter from a previous LTR. She gets very worried about her daughter being around him.”
This is scary. How would a non-black woman know in advance if a black man is like this? It just wouldn’t naturally occur to her that a black man would feel this way about all black woman. Sure, it’s understandable that he may despise a black woman who has done something to him, but not this kind of broad-brush contempt.
There are hateful men like this in other groups too, but they cloak it because they don’t want to be labeled losers by the men and ridiculed. Judging from this thread, these characters here and the Tommy character seem to be proud of their hate.
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(20.) @EbonyMonroe
Conveniently, YES. Running from it. No.
For someone who studies politics, you sound naive.
1. The blog comment doesn’t reflect ALL black women. (See what I did there) You cannot prove that, because you have not even met even 80% of American BW or even 80% UK BW. (See what I did there.)
2. White men will have Madonna somewhere missing if she spoke out on Domestic Violence from white men to white women.
Black men are the lowest on the food chain when it comes to men. And we are a unprotected group. What Madonna did was stupid, but she knows not speak out against the hand that feeds her.
I addressed the other comments, but it has a YouTube link, so it is in moderation.
Your criteria. Your rules. I win.
That doesn’t help my life in any way.
For the black women that directly improve my life, they will be well compensated, tangibly & intangibly.
Good Day
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@Adonis
Well, well, well.
Well, what do we have here? We have the official curtain close. . .
I’m not from the political field, my dad is. I haven’t approached this debate using mud slinging or illusions like some sort of campaign. I’ve stood on common sense and facts. This is about racism, so it belongs more in the categories of humanity, and morality, sociology.
Caine. . . now you know you’ve ****** up, don’t you? You know you’ve ****** up now, don’t you? You know you’ve ****** up, don’t you?
(Looking more smug than both Pam Grier at the end of “Jackie Brown” and Denzel Washington in the beginning of “Training day,” put together, she prepares for the sweetest curtain close.)
Adonis, you have just demolished the entire foundation on which your entire argument stands. You have relied on nothing but projecting generalizations on most——all BW, and nothing but confirmation bias, thus far. But you have officially undone the validity of each and every argument you have presented, in one slipped swoop, through an accidental admission. . . Drum roll please. . .
You just stated that despite the amount of posts from BW defending BM on that website, over the Madonne article, “it’s not reflect of all BW.”
Even though there are almost 50 responses from BW.
Even though almost all the BW were very vocal in their disagreement with her comments.
Even though the article is obscure, but still generated that amount of responses in defence of BM, from BW.
No matter what. . . “it still does not reflect all BW.”
I CAN use it as a case to say, “yes, BW do defend BM,” but it CANNOT be used to say, “this is how HALF, the MAJORITY, or, MOST, BW are.”
In your own words, YOU HAVE NOT MET 80% OF BW IN THE US, OR, THE UK.
Science has never shown a whole race of people to be innately evil.
You’ve had bad experiences with BW, I’ve have good experiences with BW, “Ks” said BW are not that bad. Which one of our experiences are right, as it pertains to the total BF population? None.
Science hasn’t shown any race, or that the gender of any race, is innately evil. My experiences greatly contradict yours. The truth is, there is no basis for your argument, there is no legitimate fact behind it, there are no studies backing up the idea that the characters of BW are mostly one thing. You have officially buried your entire argument by way of confession. Attempting to back track will now cause you to look unintelligent, and your position wholly without shape, form, and stability. But you will probably try. There is no point in my continuing in the debate when you try to back track, you have already admitted I’m right.
It is done Adonis. There is no where left to go.
Nice talking to you.
God bless.
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@EbonyMonroe
You “Right-Fight” more than me. Which is interesting.
I do not think black women are innately evil. Because then we would have to say BM are INNATELY evil. You went to places I did not go.
I understand why black women in the Western are the way they are. I understand White Supremacy & how White Supremacy operates & the effect it had on BW.
I continue to repeat myself, because I want to make sure you know where I am coming from.
Life is not about the action. It is about the REACTION.
I look at how BW react, and be critical of that.
You are trying to straw man my argument.
This whole argument started on two fronts.
BW are “loyal” to BM or MORE LOYAL than BM.
BW issue with a minority of BM who justifiably date out.
Y’all don’t like to hear that you are part of the problem.
So it is easier to say that BM hate themselves.
Good Day
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@Ebonymonroe
everyday i try to check myself i don’t always do it, but well maybe unlike some other posters i enjoy personal interactions ie in the flesh and i do have some black male friends and well last night it came up, you know, relatively new group of people, i move around a lot, and it comes up why do i like black women you know, and i’m ok with the self-search, i mean is it my internalized hatred and stuff from how my family acted and crap but to sum it up the black woman has in general learned how to naivgate the system, in most cases have custody of her children and as we say in the hood learned how to ‘get by’ and if that’s alpha behavior, i think it is, and ok, some say ‘ratchet’. so that’s fine, it is not my place to say more. on a certain level there is a ‘heartiste-esque’ “value-add” or personal value status, ie i work and get out and hustle and try to you know show a girl a good time and stuff, and that is my alpha nature, and perhaps why it is a most times good fit for me ie BW plus the physical attraction part, but i am not trying to down anyone else, really, there is no need at this time. most BW will look at me first i think as a person and this whole ‘you’re white’ thing is, with a real person, secondary, usually, although one really never do know
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why does Halloween seem weird to me, I look it up and it says it Halloween was originally a Christian holiday and it means holy evening, but now a lot of Christians including my family don’t celebrate it. I don’t see how it went from being about holiness and honoring the dead to what it is now all about candy and scary things.
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@v8driver
I don’t think there is anything wrong with anyone finding a gender group outside their own, more attractive and generally more compatible. The whole fetish concern is an assumption. It happens. People sometimes grow up around a certain demographic that isn’t their own, and end up relating more to that group. People also have individual tastes as far as what they find physically attractive. I don’t think there’s anything wrong with that. People complain about BW being demonized as the least attractive by way of being the antithesis of WW. But when non BM are open with the fact that they do find BW very attractive, they are accused of racism. It’s like a double whammy.
My perspective is far more relaxed, because I’m from the UK, where BW/WM marriages are so common that over 1/3 of BW, over here, are married to WM. The issue of race is very much heightened in the US, it’s quite depressing.
The only time it could be questioned is if the reasoning was founded upon hatred and spite towards the women in your own group. Simply because the initual foundation is that purely of hatred, and not sincere interest or love in the potential mate from another group, which is a bit of a perversion. Or, when there is a large percentage of a group clamouring to settle with the ideals mates presented in a racist society, to the point where it intrudes on unions among their own. This is not a huge issue for the group, it’s just naturally frowned upon by the group, because the person is displaying a colonialized mind, a conquered mind; which is ultimately their own problem when all is said and done.
Side note: I really do think it’s imperative that you completely divorce yourself from women in the drug scene. It’s not the grounds for a healthy relationship.
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@mstoogood4yall
I’m a little vague on the origins of Halloween. I’ve only researched the pagan origins of Christmas, and the change of the calender initiated by Constantine, where the Jewish/Christian celebration of Atonement/Jesus’ birth, was switched from October to December, and blended into the Pagan December tree worship celebration. Along with Passover being blended into the occultic fertility celebration of Easter. I’ve always thought Halloween’s origins were from the celebration of the occult; if you’ve got some information to the contrary, I’d be interested in reading up on it.
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@Adonis
Okay, fair enough, we’ve both been proven right 50/50, in some kinda way. I’ve won in that BW cannot be generalized as one thing, even half way, and that my experiences and the data shows that there are plenty of upwardly mobile BW with great qualites, around. But you are still talking about the reactionary state of BW to White supremacy as though we are a monolith, which, despite your previous admission, (that BW cannot be generalized), you are still failing to grasp this very basic fact. Also, one more point before I wrap up my participation in this debate. And this is not said with any disrespect, but, simply an observation that further cements the fallacy of generalizations. . .
YOU: You say your mother was married, so you were raised in an environment with a father figure at home. Your father fingure would/should have provided for you, an example of how to healthily relate to, and treat BW. Your mother would/should have provided for you, a sense of value and worth in your own BW. You’re from the city, for which the stereotype of less racism, and more sophistication, is often applied. But, despite this, you have pronounced racist views towards BW. And you struggle to relate to their humanity.
ME: I grew up in the projects in a notoriously rough borough in the city of London. Most of my upbringing was that of a child the product of a single parent home. Also, my mother is not a Black woman. But. . . My father and mother instilled in me the importance of seeing myself as equal to men, as a woman, and raising me a feminist. My father instilled in me the importance of seeing my value far past that of my physical looks, as a woman. My mother painstakingly presented images of beautiful BW, stories of Ancient Egyptian queens, and the beauty of my Black male counterpart all day, everyday, working against media propaganda. My father pushed me to not rest on my musicality or athletic gifts as a Black woman, but to also place my focus on academia, because he felt it was easy for us, lazy, and both of my parents stressed how much my ancestors fought for me to have the access to education that stood before me. I grew up learning to critically think and question stereotypes, and to research my community rather than believing media hype. I learned to value BM and BW. My parents were strict in instilling old fashioned values in me. My mother didn’t go a day without telling me not to end up a statistic, a single mother. To get out of the projects, live, travel the world, and pick and marry the right man when it’s time. My mother even impressed upon me the importance in not seeing myself as superior as a lighter skinned Black woman, with a straighter hair texture.
And yet look at the difference between our world views, Adonis. The BM from a traditional, ideal, upbringing, and the project-around-the-way-girl, from a single mother.
Even the difference between us, our upbringing, and the way we see our own people, speaks volumes.
You have won, in that I do believe BM should be allowed to marry out as much as they want, without getting grief from BW, BM, WM, or anyone else.
It has been most rewarding.
God bless.
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@v8driver
Yes, on the alpha thing. I think there’s definitely some truth to it. You live “in the hood,” where that will be even more common. That reputation that the Black community has is somewhat like the Hispanic community: fiery, passionate, agressive, and alpha. I’ve heard BM complain about the prevalence of this in BW, while neglecting to see that they too, are often very alpha, very passionate, and aggressive. It’s only natural that the female counterpart will reflect the male. Although, outside of the hood, this is often more of a rarity.
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@ Ebonymonroe. Before I forget — much appreciation for your commentaries.
Mstoogood and you touched on the origins of Halloween — I think you’d have to reach into Ireland’s ancient and pagan traditions to find that.
The 1st November is like a Celtic New Year, when the dark and long nights begin. Everything begins with darkness.
I suppose that’s why I’ve always felt it was “big” here, and other “Celtic” nations, rather than in say, England. As for Ireland specifically, it’s celebrated most loudly (like a New Year’s Eve) in Derry (also called Londonderry) with lots of dressing, music and eating.
Traditionally, it was always a spiritual time, a time when the “membrane” or boundary between this world and the spirit-world is not solid, so banshees and faeries, etc., pass back and forth across that divide.
The bonfires served a purpose in warding off the restless spirits.
The Druids (Hibernia and Britain’s priest caste, sometimes men, sometimes women dating from before 300 BC or thereabouts) would collect things like apples and eggs from the general community as a ‘blessing’ and those homes who were mean in the offerings to the Druids would have a “trick” or some kind of prank played on them! The origin of trick or treat might be there.
Well, that’s what I was told by the knowledgeable about really old Irish folklore.
Halloween in Derry (Northeast Ireland):
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cOKuZ2L1Mak)
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Fantastic. Thanks for the information @Bulanik. Do you reside in Ireland?
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Yes, Ebonymore. I pop in here at intervals, and even though I don’t read all the threads, I never fail to be impressed and delighted by certain contributors! 😀
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BOO! Happy Halloween to everyone.
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That is interesting Bulanik
@ mary
right back at u, I don’t celebrate it but I do lol at some of the ppl that dress up.if ppl don’t have a kid and they are not in their teens they don’t need to be trick or treating, oh and the skanky outfits. smh
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.
A lot – if not all – of the info one can learn from blog commentary is available to internet users through searches on Google (my favorite search engine). In fact, if sources and / or links are not provided for ALL or MOST of the information given in comments, it’s definitely a good idea to cross-reference the info, so as not to take errors /misinformation as fact.
If one is so inclined and dedicated enough, it’s possible to do one’s own research online on quite a good many subjects . While Wikipedia is easily accessed, it is not the most reliable site, as (from what I know) anyone can write or make changes to its articles.
For accuracy and in-depth research, especially for articles on history, there are several university sponsored educational sites available online — I myself discovered these same websites after performing searches on unsourced / unlinked information contained in certain comments on this blog.
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@Adonis
Did a double take on your last post. What alternate reality are you living in where the stats show BM are as loyal to BW as BW are to BM? The numbers are just what they are my dude, they’re just what they are. Of course there are legitimate reasons for why some BM hop the fence after finding no luck with BW. But, at the end of the day, BW have just as much reason to as well. BM often struggle for employment, have a high rate of being behind bars, have high rates of OOW children. White men are presented as the ideal husbands, breadwinners and fathers. The Brad Pitts of this world are presented as the handsome ideal. Asian men are presented as disciplined, academic, strong, silent type. Hispanic men are romanticised as passionate, sexy, the ideal lover. You’re acting as though BW are not bombarded with images and propaganda saying you are the worst of the worst. But despite the bad experiences BW have with BM giving them good reason to marry out, the same way BM have bad experiences with BW. Despite the fact that other men are pushed as the ideal to BM, who are pushed as the worst choice a woman can bet on in a mate, thus far, BW, have chosen to stick with BM. Yes, there certainly are many BM who are very loyal to BW, but, in comparison to BW, in the UK and much moreso in the US, BW loyalty to BM is greater than that of BM loyalty to BW. It’s not just in comparison to BM, BW are the least likely to marry out compared to all other genders of all races in the US. Right now, as it stands, there is no point in trying to compete with their loyalty, especially when you marry out more than every other race of men in the US. You’re playing yourself.
A greater amount BW have reason to bounce just as much as BM do, but they haven’t. You say it’s just down to BW’s choices in BM. . . but, as I have said, and you conveniently overlooked, you are the number 1 killer of BM, you are the number 1 killer of non BW married to you, as well as the number 1 killer of BW married to you. Answer this Adonis, are BM, non BW, and BW all to blame? Are they all making bad choices? If the problem is BW, why is it that the heighest divorce rate is between BM/WW? I wish you would all marry out just so I can laugh in your face when you end up on it. Meanwhile, BW married to WM have the lowest divorce rate. You can dance around it all you want, but it’s pretty clear the problem is not all on BW. Do you see the amount of hatred from other races of men towards their women across the web? No. The truth is, many of you have become very dysfunctional. I don’t know why, but it’s just the way it is. You think the world owes you something, but it doesn’t. You think WM, BW, everyone, is the problem, but that’s not true. The way you speak, the things you say, are not normal, they’re psychopathic. But you are representative of many young BM who are ticking time bombs, who will fail as husbands, who won’t be able to hand over proper values to your children, and that’s just the way it is.
BW are not on youtube hollering telling you you’re disgusting and ugly. They don’t usually treat you the way many of you treat BW. They’re not on here laughing at the idea of a Black boy being raped, because BW just generally don’t treat BM the wsy many BM treat BW. I told you about that joke in “Reservoir dogs,” the joke that “BM treat their women like sh!t,” said by a group of non BM. There’s the Madonna article, a non BW talking about how BM treat BW terribly, especially in comparison to BW being compassionate and long suffering with them. It’s a running joke, and it’s not BW saying this.
There’s a documentary on youtube about BW marrying out. A random young BW was asked if she would, she paused in concern. She said she’d be scared of being scorned from her community, by her family, and that’s just what it is. Sistas could marry out more, I actually believe they. They have opportunities, I give you my word many WM are attracted to BW, not all, not most, but I’ve met many who are, and I’m talking US. I’ve met hispanic guys, Asian guys, Indian, Middle Eastern, a lot of non BM who are sincerely attracted to BW, and not just for hanky panky. BW and BM grow up around eachother, and BW end up just as attracted to non BM as BM are to non BW. Look out around you, or on the TV. Before Brad and Angie, it was Robin Givens and Brad, it was Sinitta (BF singer in the UK) and Brad. Look at the Nsync’s, the Backstreet boys, Robert Patterson, Justin Beiber. That’s right, little Black girls were standing screaming right next to them White girls.
It has been a matter of loyalty my dude. You don’t have to like BW, you don’t have to settle down with them, but you can’t front on that, you just can’t. It’s numbers.
You don’t appreciate what you have all around you as a defense. If BW collectively turned their backs on all BM right now, if they stopped holding down the parenting, the household, bringing in money, stop supporting your businsses, stop being your champions, stopped jumping up to defend you in public when you suffer injustice, stopped personally having your back, being a shoulder to cry on, an ear to hear, and a bre@stvto lay your head; I truly believe you fall to pieces, and quickly. Maybe that’s what you all need. You have what many men would love to have, as the saying goes “I love (insert lovable thing), like a BW loves her man.” You don’t appreciate the one thing you have always had as BM, despite not always having other things in society. One day, maybe you’ll have nothing at all.
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@ mary burrell, your welcome. I have lived in Ireland for 10 years now, and as an outsider, the Irish have always been keen to share their past and culture with anyone. This is obvious (and no one should feel envy for that).
It’s so nice when commenters also SHARE WHAT THEY KNOW from their lives. From their life experience, from what they have read from books and courses, and what not.
Anyone with any sense, maturity or generosity would know that, wouldn’t they? rather than speculating and assuming — meanly — about contributors and their comments on this website.
Not everyone spends their whole lives on the internet. Wiki, especially 😀
Not all information out there is from Google, is it? and some, though not all, of what is find-able on the internet comes from somewhere because knowledge existed long before the internet existed.
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Mary, do you believe comments that touch on history or whatever, should be sniffed over and the subject of cross-referencing on a great number of other websites simply because there are in-depth articles, and a great many books that exist in libraries?
Wouldn’t it be a novel idea if the academics — or would-be academics – among us with their avocations actually shared what they know so much about stuff rather than keeping it to themselves instead of playing amateur detective, or assuming they were the Finger of God or some such.
How constructive that would be. And less boring.
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*highest divorce rate
*I actually believe they will
*businsses
*bre@st to lay your head
*you would fall to pieces
@Bulanik
I’ve definitely become fond of your commentary. Now I’m picturing a BW heartbreaker from Ireland named Noreen from the show Big brother, (when I actually used to fry my brain watching it).
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^^^Noirin, rather.
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Bulanik, You brought up some good points.
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@bulanik you know those white people tellin you their whole life story, lol
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http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/10/04/us-swiss-pay-idUSBRE9930O620131004
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http://www.federationsoutherncoop.com/files%20home%20page/landloss.htm
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The following is addressed to Da Joker from the Asian Atrocity Argument thread.
First off, I apologize for reading it wrong.
Second, I never said nor implied once that blacks are always victims while whites are not. That’s what you assume I said. (And you tell me I have deplorable reading comprehension. Ha.) There is data that supports the findings that white women benefit the most from affirmative action, and you can look it up if you want.
Third, understand something. There are such people as blacks who earn their positions and promotions through hard work, not simply by the color of their skin, and if it happens, it’s extremely rare.
Fourth, I’m not saying or implying that white people don’t work hard or that there are those who are indeed qualified. There are a lot of whites who do, BUT there are some who got there by – like I said – connections, or by their own version of affirmative action.
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brothwawolf
There is data that supports the findings that white women benefit the most from affirmative action, and you can look it up if you want.
Do you oppose affirmative action or are you trying to deflect?
Third, understand something. There are such people as blacks who earn their positions and promotions through hard work, not simply by the color of their skin, and if it happens, it’s extremely rare.
Affirmative action should be viewed as a commodity. For example, suppose farmers have a really good year. More soybeans means a slightly lower price per bushel. Do farmers get more for some grade ‘A’ bushels than others? No. They get the same for every grade ‘A’ bushel because soybeans are a commodity. The price of every bushel goes down slightly. That’s supply and demand. Similarly, employees are a commodity. Affirmative action artificially affects the wages of a lot of people. However, it’s the most successful blacks who benefit the most. The guy working down at McDonald’s isn’t getting it. It’s the guy in the office who thinks he didn’t get it who got the most. It’s not that he wouldn’t have gotten a nice job with a good salary. It’s that he got a better job with a better salary.
Fourth, I’m not saying or implying that white people don’t work hard or that there are those who are indeed qualified. There are a lot of whites who do, BUT there are some who got there by – like I said – connections, or by their own version of affirmative action.
Meh. There are blacks who get jobs based on who they know, too. So what? If an employer discriminates by giving a less qualified employee a job then it’s charity. It’s the same as if he’s giving a stranger money for free. Most people like to think they’re generous but I don’t know very many walking around giving strangers money for nothing. And I don’t know many employers paying employees more than they have to either. If they do then they won’t be in business very long. So while I may recommend one of my friends for a job he’s not going to get hired unless the owner thinks he’s the most qualified. That’s not true of affirmative action. The government mandates that someone be hired regardless.
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Da Jokah
Do you oppose affirmative action or are you trying to deflect?
I’ll say this. People should get their positions based on hardwork, intelligence, qualifications, work ethic, etc. But the reality is that not everyone will receive the gold card. If you know some people in high places or if they take one look at you and think “most qualified”, that’s a show-in. And it happens very often, but not as much as you think to certain people. Yes, some have been lucky enough, but its rare.
Instead of thinking that affirmative action is a form of white oppression on behalf of us blacks, why not consider other reasons why you didn’t get into Harvard instead of thinking that it’s a case of racial quotas? There are white people who do get passed over, but guess what, there are also blacks, Latinos, Asians, Native Americans, Arabic, Muslims, women, LGBT etc.
Affirmative action artificially affects the wages of a lot of people. However, it’s the most successful blacks who benefit the most. The guy working down at McDonald’s isn’t getting it. It’s the guy in the office who thinks he didn’t get it who got the most. It’s not that he wouldn’t have gotten a nice job with a good salary. It’s that he got a better job with a better salary.
Okay, where are you getting this information from? And what’s with this stigma that blacks don’t deserve positions while whites are “most qualified”, Then again, that’s my assumption based on your personal story that you seem to have made it a national campaign to oppress whites.
Meh. There are blacks who get jobs based on who they know, too. So what? If an employer discriminates by giving a less qualified employee a job then it’s charity. It’s the same as if he’s giving a stranger money for free. Most people like to think they’re generous but I don’t know very many walking around giving strangers money for nothing. And I don’t know many employers paying employees more than they have to either. If they do then they won’t be in business very long. So while I may recommend one of my friends for a job he’s not going to get hired unless the owner thinks he’s the most qualified. That’s not true of affirmative action. The government mandates that someone be hired regardless.
I have to be real. Sometimes I think you’re bitter about something that happened to you (the college thing?) and that you equate that with affirmative action. I dunno. You don’t seem as vocal about whites getting jobs based on who they know and racial preference, but you seem mad as a hornet when black people advance, and you conclude it as a terrible case of affirmative action.
I agree there are blacks who hired other blacks based on who they know. How is that any different than whites who hire other whites for the same reason? I’m not saying either is right, but why do you make one seem more wrong than the other, if you are making the other not as wrong?
Anyone else want to chime in?
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brothawolf
But the reality is that not everyone will receive the gold card. If you know some people in high places or if they take one look at you and think “most qualified”, that’s a show-in.
Who cares. It should be an employer’s choice to hire whoever they want. If they make a bad choice it will cost them money. If they make enough bad choices they’ll go bankrupt. On the other hand, let’s suppose someone notices a group getting paid less than they’re worth. If they’re smart they’ll hire as many as they can and make more money. Others will be forced to do the same until everyone is getting paid what they’re worth. Ergo, it’s very difficult to discriminate in a free market.
Instead of thinking that affirmative action is a form of white oppression on behalf of us blacks, why not consider other reasons why you didn’t get into Harvard instead of thinking that it’s a case of racial quotas?
Given the scores, discrimination was likely. That doesn’t necessarily mean I would have been accepted if not for afirmative action. Someone else with slightly higher scores may have been discriminated as well. They may have been next in line. Regardless, her scores were so low it’s unlikely she would have been accepted without AA. So someone was discriminated against.
Okay, where are you getting this information from?
Where do you think AA is more likely to be in play — McDonald’s or Harvard?
And what’s with this stigma that blacks don’t deserve positions while whites are “most qualified”, Then again, that’s my assumption based on your personal story that you seem to have made it a national campaign to oppress whites.
The person getting the boost is the one getting positions they don’t deserve.
I have to be real. Sometimes I think you’re bitter about something that happened to you (the college thing?) and that you equate that with affirmative action.
I mention a personal anecdote and all of a sudden I’m “bitter”? Am I not allowed to mention my personal experience?
You don’t seem as vocal about whites getting jobs based on who they know and racial preference, but you seem mad as a hornet when black people advance, and you conclude it as a terrible case of affirmative action.
I’m not vocal about anyone getting jobs based on who they know. I’ve already explained why.
I agree there are blacks who hired other blacks based on who they know. How is that any different than whites who hire other whites for the same reason? I’m not saying either is right, but why do you make one seem more wrong than the other, if you are making the other not as wrong?
I didn’t say it was either different or wrong. As far as I’m concerned, people can make whatever choices they want. My objection is to legislating choices.
Anyone else want to chime in?
You asked for this discussion. Man up and stop begging for help.
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Who cares. It should be an employer’s choice to hire whoever they want. If they make a bad choice it will cost them money. If they make enough bad choices they’ll go bankrupt. On the other hand, let’s suppose someone notices a group getting paid less than they’re worth. If they’re smart they’ll hire as many as they can and make more money. Others will be forced to do the same until everyone is getting paid what they’re worth. Ergo, it’s very difficult to discriminate in a free market.
Discrimination happens in the free market, and it starts at the hiring department.
Given the scores, discrimination was likely. That doesn’t necessarily mean I would have been accepted if not for afirmative action. Someone else with slightly higher scores may have been discriminated as well. They may have been next in line. Regardless, her scores were so low it’s unlikely she would have been accepted without AA. So someone was discriminated against.
Let’s say the scores were switched and you got a lower score than the black female students. Yet, you got accepted instead of her. Wouldn’t that be a form of discrimination?
Where do you think AA is more likely to be in play — McDonald’s or Harvard?
That’s not quite the information I asked for that backs up what you’re saying.
The person getting the boost is the one getting positions they don’t deserve.
You avoided to answer the question I asked. What is this mantra you have of blacks not deserving to enter good colleges or get promoted to higher positions, but whites do because they are more qualified?
I mention a personal anecdote and all of a sudden I’m “bitter”? Am I not allowed to mention my personal experience?
I’m just saying you seem bitter. And you seem pretty defensive when I asked that question. Maybe I’m right about that after all.
I’m not vocal about anyone getting jobs based on who they know. I’ve already explained why.
I also mentioned racial preference. Funny how you left that part out in your response.
I didn’t say it was either different or wrong. As far as I’m concerned, people can make whatever choices they want. My objection is to legislating choices.
With all due respect, I think we all know what your problem is. I’ll just leave it at that.
You asked for this discussion. Man up and stop begging for help.
I’m not begging for help. I’m offering other people opinion on this discussion. There’s a big difference. Maybe you need to stop reading what you want to read. You seem really emotional about this.
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Kiwi,
DJ is Churchs. He already got banned, so we know he’s trolling by using a proxy. I’m afraid he gets the last laugh, though. We got DOUBLE TROLLED. trolololololololol!!!
It’s either that, or they share the same brain.
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@ BrothaWolf: I always suspected da jokah was a previous banned troll from before.
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“Given the scores, discrimination was likely. That doesn’t necessarily mean I would have been accepted if not for afirmative action. Someone else with slightly higher scores may have been discriminated as well. They may have been next in line. Regardless, her scores were so low it’s unlikely she would have been accepted without AA. So someone was discriminated against.’—Or it could be that someone was well connected.
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@mary burrell
I tend to believe he is churchs or duckduckgoofs, but abagond said they did not have the same ip. Though there are ways to get a different ip I suppose.
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brothawolf
Discrimination happens in the free market, and it starts at the hiring department.
I never said it didn’t. What I said is that discrimination costs the one doing it money. As long as there are a handful of employers who don’t discriminate it won’t affect wages. That’s why AA is different. It’s mandated by law so it does affect wages.
Let’s say the scores were switched and you got a lower score than the black female students. Yet, you got accepted instead of her. Wouldn’t that be a form of discrimination?
That’s not what happened.
That’s not quite the information I asked for that backs up what you’re saying.
Where do you think AA is more likely to be in play — McDonald’s or Harvard?
What is this mantra you have of blacks not deserving to enter good colleges or get promoted to higher positions, but whites do because they are more qualified?
If the test scores of blacks admitted to Harvard are significantly lower than other groups then it’s reasonable to assume AA is admitting less qualified black applicants.
I’m just saying you seem bitter. And you seem pretty defensive when I asked that question. Maybe I’m right about that after all.
Why would I be bitter? I couldn’t have afforded Harvard anyway. I went to a great school on scholarships where I wasn’t saddled with all that debt. And that girl transferred to a crappy state school after her freshman year because she he couldn’t cut it. Shadenfreude is schweet! haha
+
The peanut gallery is in full force. I wish I knew what Churches did to piss kiwi off so I could do it, too. LOL!
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Hey, I’ll see you’re trolling russian and raise you a saruman
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KaqC5FnvAEc)
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Someone is bitter they didn’t get into Harvard and is now taking their anger out on a message board. That’s sad. Kind of…..
Agabond, when will you have a special tab for personal anecdotes that don’t prove anything? I can use one of those right now.
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dang this episode of iylana fix my life is crazy. smh hypocritical pastor.
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Da Jokah
I never said it didn’t. What I said is that discrimination costs the one doing it money. As long as there are a handful of employers who don’t discriminate it won’t affect wages. That’s why AA is different. It’s mandated by law so it does affect wages.
So, who in your mind is being discriminated against when you think about what you said, and who is being given positions you think they are not worthy of?
Also I mentioned a scenario where I said, “Let’s say the scores were switched and you got a lower score than the black female students. Yet, you got accepted instead of her. Wouldn’t that be a form of discrimination?”
You said, “That’s not what happened.”
I know that’s not what you said happened. I just gave a scenario. So, again, wouldn’t that be a form of discrimination or not and why?
If the test scores of blacks admitted to Harvard are significantly lower than other groups then it’s reasonable to assume AA is admitting less qualified black applicants.
That’s not what I asked. And where is your information that you got this from?
Why would I be bitter? I couldn’t have afforded Harvard anyway. I went to a great school on scholarships where I wasn’t saddled with all that debt. And that girl transferred to a crappy state school after her freshman year because she he couldn’t cut it. Shadenfreude is schweet! haha
Man, you sound like the typical angry white man, angry for all the wrong reasons. lol
You also can’t answer certain questions even though you like to talk. And he told me to man up when he’s afraid of straightforward questions.
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brothawolf
where is your information that you got this from?
No Longer Separate, Not Yet Equal: Race and Class in Elite College Admission and Campus Life
As for the rest, you lost a long time ago.
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@Kiwi,
I like the Star Trek version of the Troll, esp. the ending
(http://youtu.be/DMoWt0wnlUw)
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Was wondering about the idea behinds the new banner photo.
A reversed (south / north) map of the tropics / subtropics.
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Here’s Da Jokah frolicking with his cat ‘Pinky’:
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mjRm58JF7hc&list=PL1D3870481B99E86F)
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@ Jefe
The banner image is from a Peters projection map, which shows all areas on the map in correct proportion to their size (Most maps make North America, Europe and Siberia too big and Africa and South America too small). The south is placed at the top and the map is centred on the equator at the zero meridian.
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Da Jokah
No Longer Separate, Not Yet Equal: Race and Class in Elite College Admission and Campus Life
See? That wasn’t so hard to ask, was it?
As for the rest, you lost a long time ago.
I guess there are other reasons why you didn’t get into Harvard. Maybe a lack of personality is one of them lol.
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Yes, I could tell that, but it was cut off at about the 27-28 deb parallel north and south, which cuts off all of Europe, Canada, Russia, Central Asia (the -tans) the Koreas, New Zealand, most of USA, Northern half of China, all of Japan except the southern Ryukyu islands, most of Argentina and Chile and extreme southern Brazil, the southern (upper) half of Australia, and the the southern coast of Argentina. I was wondering if there was any idea of looking at the world after removing the areas that are majority European (or their descendants) and North Asian / Central Asian and Inuit/Aleut.
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abagond, how have you not posted about the first black miss israel already
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The Lone Ranger was a black guy!
And judging by the photos he sort of did look like a tough, action hero kind of dude.
http://politicalblindspot.com/the-real-lone-ranger-was-an-african-american-lawman-who-lived-with-native-american-indians/
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@ rick
Great link, i’d heard the lone ranger was black but I never got around to looking it up thanks. It’s crazy they won’t make a movie about him using a black actor, it just annoys me that they can come up with a movie like django and have the character escape slavery by the help of a white man and become a bounty hunter and fictionalize it, yet they won’t do a movie about a real black man that possibly killed for his freedom and became a u.s marshal. I guess ppl are so caught up in telling lies than telling the truth because they think the truth is boring or not worth telling. At first I thought maybe they don’t want to tell his story because he possibly killed his master, but in fictionalized django I think ppl said he killed his master too so it makes no sense as to why they won’t tell his story that is true ,but are willing to tell a fake story about it. I guess they want ppl to be happy and cheer for a fictional black man getting freedom and being a lawman than to do a movie about a real black man that took his freedom and became a lawman as at least with fictional movies like django they can say ,see it didn’t happen it was only a movie. But with a movie about the real lone ranger they can’t say it didn’t happen and people might still be happy and cheer for the black male that killed to gain his freedom, I guess they don’t want ppl to be cheering for that.
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@ Rick Buddhuu: Wow, Thank You for that. Now that would be a film worth making. I learned something new today, Good looking out sir. Thank so much.
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@Mstoogood4yall: Now wouldn’t you like to see that story of the black lone ranger made into a film? I wonder if Spike Lee knows about this historical figure in black history? That would be so cool. Idris Alba could play the lone ranger character. I am excited about this historical figure. Abagond should do a post on him.
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Wait Da Jokah thinks he didn’t get into Harvard because a BW he knew? who supposedly had lower scores than him, got in? Of course that means she took HIS spot. He also thinks that AA is “legally mandated”? I guess he hasn’t heard of the Bakke decision. Even if quotas were still around and AA was legally mandated (it’s not), he doesn’t realize that Harvard is a private school and can set their own admission standards?
Um…….hahahahaha. Looks like Harvard missed out on a gem.
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@mary burrell,
I agree that Bass Reeves deserves the “big screen” treatment. There was a low budget, but good, film made about him a few years ago. I think IMDB has an entry on it.
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Abagond a post on Russian author Aleksandr Pushkin and French author and French author Alexandre Dumas.
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*French author Alexandre Dumas who wrote “THe Three Musketeers.
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@ mstoogood4yall, @ mary:
You’re welcome.
I think a racially accurate movie would be very appropriate. I’d watch it.
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Aw, heck. It’s signing me as plain “buddhuu” again instead of Rick Buddhuu.
Meh, whatever. I can’t figure it out, but I’m still me. Seriously, I’m not doing the bogus login thing.
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@buddhuu: The operative word : RACIALLY ACCURATE. Thanks so much again, Appreciate you.
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I trust everyone vited… it wasnt much on the ballot in philly but they’re threatening to curtail some public transportation around here the city is asking for more $.
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@ mary
Yea it would be nice to be a real movie, speaking of movies I just finished watching the drop squad rofl. Lol snatching the sell outs off the street.
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@ rick now just buddhuu
lol yes a racially accurate one would be nice indeed.
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@mstoogood4yall: Was I wrong, about that? I knew you would love it. Have you seen Good Fences yet? That is another one I like. Check it out. And “The Watermelon Man”
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no u weren’t wrong the ending was good. I will have to watch good fences but I can’t find a free full movie of watermelon man I saw the preview it looked good.
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@ kiwi
That is crazy. smh the mother thinks naming her child Keisha is a way for her child to be connected to her roots wtf, smh. *side eye* anyway the mother is smh, woman u can’t make ur child black or more authentic by naming her a so called black name, u teach them by showing them their history no name can make up for that. This girl shouldn’t allow ppl to get her down and change her name, but at the same time its the environment this is why I couldn’t move to a white area, ppl don’t think about what their kids will have to go through if they are not white, they don’t think that the child will have to deal with rejection and will eventually want to reject themselves just to fit in. My name is so called black sounding and I love it because my dad named me and its unique. I wouldn’t change it for anything, even if some ppl may think it’s ghetto. A name does not make u who u are, I wish ppl would understand that. for black americans our first name is the only name we get to choose that is our own. our last names are that of the slave master, so ppl tease us when our first names don’t match or don’t sound like our european last names. If Eurocentric names weren’t the standard then ppl wouldn’t call these names black sounding or ghetto, just because its different, I mean dang the name is still in English its not like its in an alien language. They tease anybody that has a different name, I see Asians with European sounding first names and their own last names that are completely different from their first name, it seems ppl are supposed to have both match it can’t be a mix of two cultures or two languages.
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Very well said Mary
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sorry last comment was for mstoogood4yall
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@ Jefe
Europe and northern North America was cut off by the WordPress banner maker – banners have to be rectangles of the correct proportions. I centred the banner on 0, 0 so that it is centred on the West African tropics.
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it looks like australia vs. brazil in a game of risk
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“A name does not make u who u are, I wish ppl would understand that. for black americans our first name is the only name we get to choose that is our own. our last names are that of the slave master, so ppl tease us when our first names don’t match or don’t sound like our european last names….”
_ _ _
Some freedmen did take on their slaveholder’s surname, many, however, did not. There was no rule or law requiring them to do so.
A good many of the former slaves simply chose a surname that they either found pleasing to the ear or because of its connection to respected person (eg, “Washington”) or family.
Also, no one today is entirely stuck with an unwanted given name or surname. Going by an assumed name is legal as long as it isn’t for purposes of fraud (people who their entire adult lives go by a nickname / the diminutive of their given name–even when signing legal documents and such–would fall under this category).
There is also the option to make a name change ‘official’ — for a fee, of course.
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@ pay it forward
yes I know some former slaves chose their own last names but I was just pointing out how its not our own in the sense these are not names our ancestors had before they came here. And these are not names white people make fun of because it is in English and there are whites with those last names. Whereas names like quvenzhane, Sheniqua, etc are not really names whites have for their kids and are different, these names don’t end up on the popular names of the year list.Like I said Asians have Eurocentric first names and their own last names in their language, people pick on them not for their European sounding name but for the different sounding last name. I was only pointing out how names that are not American sounding are rejected and made fun of.
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Washington was a name many chose in fact it is reportedly the blackest name in america some speculate the former slaves chose the name Washington because of George washington . so even if washington wasn’t the name of their slave master it is still the last name of a known slave owner.Then there are alot of blacks with the last names of other founding fathers, like jackson and Jefferson. that is not creating a name but picking one, these are not names they created on their own but names some chose based on presidents or names they heard. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/02/21/washington-blackest-name-america_n_825884.html
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story is familiar and heartbreaking yet again a black person seeking help after a car accident is shot dead. http://newsone.com/2759190/renisha-mcbride-detroit/
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Don Lemon is at it again, this time defending “stop and frisk”. From Stephanie’s blog:
http://httpjournalsaolcomjenjer6steph.blogspot.com/2013/11/Don-Lemon-Stop-And-Frisk-Em.html
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@ mstoogood4yall
Thanks. I will probably do a post on Renisha McBride.
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ok abagond thanks. rofl don lemon at it again smh, I think these tweets about him are funny and on point http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/11/05/don-lemon-stop-and-frisk_n_4219415.html
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oh god, Don Lemon….this foo. -_-
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Worst Typhoon ever on record – Pray for Philippines
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@ Jefe
Oh No. I was not aware thanks for the information. I need to call my friend and find out if her family is ok.
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@ kiwi
that is great, i’m glad u didn’t change ur name. My name is special to me because it is a name my dad came up with, we should not be made to feel ashamed of who we are or what name our parents give us. I wish ppl would be happy with who they are because there will always be somebody that says something negative and if ppl went out and changed every thing that somebody makes fun of they’d be broke from having name changes, implants, and plastic surgery. I saw an episode of a show called taboo on the national geographic channel and they were interviewing an asian male that changed his look to be like superman, he had some skin lightening surgery and eye surgery, and a chin implant and blue eye contacts. They showed a picture of how he looked before and after and I think he looked way better before. It is sad that ppl see superheroes and other ppl that don’t look like them and they try to look just like them instead of saying u know what i’ll be the black, Asian, latino, superman, wonderwoman, etc. But some feel the need to change not just their clothes, or hairstyle, but their entire body.
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@ ebonymonroe
I know u were saying something about kanye crazy arse saying kim is more influential and intriguing than michelle Obama smh. What’s next is he going to say she is more wHOlesome. rofl. Kanye and majority of black Hollywood are sellouts the real ones are old or out of work. Then he had the nerve to say he’s doing gods work, smh right the same mofo that said he sold his soul to the devil yeah that sure is gods work alright. As far as clothing, yes ppl do care more about what she is wearing than maybe michelle but I remember when michelle wore that dress at the inaugural ball it got sold out asap. I don’t know why ppl feel the need to compare two completely different ppl, at least compare two ppl that are on the same level. S3x sells so of course kim may have a leg up on michelle but she is the first lady and kim is what? He could’ve compared kim to paris Hilton or any other person that is famous for no reason.
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I will add my two cents reagarding Keisha now Kylie, Instead of her mother teaching her to be proud of her black heritage, she caved into the lies and ignorance of white supremacy. To me when white people have relations with black people they need to teach the children about both heritages. In my opinion, this says that she believes all the negative ignorance that come from the bigotry perpetrated by white supremacy.
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It’s the way of Eurocentric thinking, they think their way is the right and true way, thus the girl Keisha thinking her so called black sounding name need to be changed to something more acceptable.
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^ amen ms mary
I just can’t stand how her mom thought oh if I just name my child this then she will have connection and pride to her African American heritage. Then she lives in a predominately white neighborhood and goes to a white school so I can’t expect any black child or child of color in that situation to not come out with some self hate. Imo if u want a black child then u need to teach them about who they are and let them be around ppl that are like them. I just can’t understand how ppl have sense enough to know that when they get a dog that dog needs to be around other dogs but with kids they don’t have sense enough to think that kids need someone like them as well to be around.
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@mstoogood4yall: You are so right about that. You are on the money.
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@mstoogood4yall: I don’t believe Kanye believes all the stupid stuff he is saying, he just wants to be in the media and have face time. He is such a media wh0re, he is like is inlaws. Kanye, has fell off for me. I liked the college drop out Kanye better. This new Kanye is just too ignorant beyond words.
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*his inlaws*
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I read an interesting article about a woman that gave her biracial child up for adoption because she didn’t want him to face racism in America, the interesting thing is she gave him up to a dutch family, and if im not mistaken weren’t the dutch the first ones to bring slaves to the colonies. And then then one of the commenters said this “You know life is a mess if a white crack head prostitute thinks the worse thing to be is black in America.” http://madamenoire.com/303228/white-people-will-hate-half-black-child-white-american-mother-gives-bi-racial-baby-adoption/
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Yeah kanye was better before now I can’t understand him, I liked his songs in the early 2000’s like through the wire and all falls down
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oh my! @ : o O ) >
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@mstoogood4yall: Agreed.
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i’m almost done reading Malcolm bio and it is so crazy how a lot of things that were going on there are going on now. Its crazy how some of the things he said rings true today. He was ahead of his time for sure. crazy what jealousy does to ppl and how ppl get so caught up in looking at someone else as their idol or god and forget that they are human too.
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great to know they are changing the name of this school now if only they would change the other schools and holidays named after no good ppl.
http://news.msn.com/us/school-named-after-confederate-general-to-get-new-name
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@mstoogoodforyall
Yeah, I just posted a collection of article on Kanye West in the interracial thread, because it belongs moreso in the issues related to that thread, but it’s in moderation. I would never buy another Kanye album again, that’s for sure.
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I don’t know, I just don’t know how or why. Why is it easier to lie sometimes than tell the truth, or why is It easier to shutdown than say how u feel. Why is it easier to connect with someone ele’s pain but not ur own? I think its because of not wanting to be hurt or face ur own hurt, defense mechanism perhaps.
I don’t know why I feel the way I do about renisha’s killing, I feel sad about it but idk I just don’t feel as much as I did when trayvon and other black males were killed. Is it because her name sounds similar to mine? is it because she was the same age as me? is it because it hits close to home that it could be me but my mind won’t register it and shuts down out of fear? I know i’m not the only one that feels this way I just know i’m not. Why do I know that, because I see a lot of people that say they are for black women and there are black women that say they are for black women that have ignored the thread altogether or not commented much on it. Is it that we are so used to seeing black males gunned down that when it happens to black women we disconnect emotionally from it as we don’t want to see the possibility that mothers, daughters, and grandmothers are a target too. Is it the massa are we sick thing going on just this time its black women asking black men are we sick?
Nobody wants to bury their child, but why does it seem the outrage is loudest when that child killed is of a certain gender or race or when a child goes missing why is tit hey cover the missing kids of a certain race and gender.
We know they cover stories about white females missing and white kids killed, but it seems we also have biases when it comes to missing black kids or black kids that are killed. We hear about the black males that get killed, we hardly hear about the black females that are killed and even then they are of a certain skin tone.
How is it threads about black males killed like jonathan Ferrell have more comments and views than renisha McBride? Their murders are similar but also different. How is it people can be very vocal and passionate when discussing interracial between black women and white men but won’t comment on a thread about a black woman killed by a white man? This shows me they don’t care about black women as women but as property or as a way to further their own agenda when it comes to black women whether that is to get us into interracial or away from it. I am sick of it all, People focus on some un important things but will ignore ones that are of importance, people can say oh its slave mentality it may be but if u say u are awake why are u still mainly focusing on topics that the asleep people discuss day in and day out. There is hardly any difference between the asleep and awake the only difference I see is one knows what’s up and does nothing about it and the other doesn’t know what’s up and so does nothing about it.
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@misstoogoodforyall
I discussed this in a debate in the interracial thread, and this very open thread in a debate. Black women are being locked up 2 to 3 times the rate of BM now, over the war on drugs, for non violent crimes, and serving more than White women/non Black women murderers, just like Black men, but we only hear about the plight of Black and Brown men. Black women’s domestic violence mortality rate exceeds everyone’s, 60% falling prey to pedophilia (rape and sexual abuse) before ago 18, the amount of high profile instances of police brutality against Black girls and women, sometimes resulting in death, or the NAACP and Al Sharpton taking the g@ng rapist’s side in the Dunbar village case, the Black women hate speech online from Black men, is just some of the evidence, that the truth is, there is a major problem with the worth of Black women’s lives to that of Black men’s lives in the Black community. Did you check out #blackpowerisforblackmen on twitter? Many sistas know this, man. Although many women head the home in the Black community, the Black community is hyper-patriarchal. People talking all that nationalist business on this blog, and denigrating Black women in the name of it, you won’t find them commenting on Renisha’s thread.
If you find yourself being less moved by Renisha’s death, sista you’ve got a problem, and you really need to wake up. Maybe you should check out a book called “Female chauvanist pigs,” to analyze how women can absorb a devalued image of women, and themselves as women, from being fed a diet of such a consistently patriarchal narrative. And in doing so, they actually perpetuate their own oppression as a minority (women), and in the case of Black women, double minorities. Most Black women I come across, now, are no longer doing that. You need to check that, quick, from one sista to another, with love.
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FBI’s Expanded Homicide Data Table 6 for 2011.
A little addition shows the total number of white offenders and black offenders is similar. However, there are more than 6 times as many whites (hispanic and nonhispanic). So blacks were actually 7 times as likely to commit a homicide.
The interracial homicides rate shows even greater divergence with 193 white on black homicides compared to 448 black on white homicides. So there are more than twice as many black on white homicides as the reverse. However, once again there are more than 6 times as many whites. So blacks were actually 14 times as likely to commit an interracial homicide.
+
FBI’s National Crime Victimization Survey.
Combining Table 42 (single offender victimization) & Table 43 multiple offender victimization) and doing a little math, shows that approximately 90% of violent interracial crime is black on white. However, once again there are more than 6 times as many whites. So blacks are actually more than 50 times as likely to commit a violent interracial crime against whites.
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@Da Jokah
And what are you going to fix the problem? If the answer is nothing then what good are crime stats doing you?
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kiwi
RE: singling out blacks.
That comment was part of a conversation on another thread.
RE: Asian quotas.
Asians are no more affected by affirmative action than whites. Regardless, I oppose quotas for anyone.
RE: Asian homicide victimization
When I make excuses for it you’ll have a point. As it is, I’m not making excuses for anything because I support justice for everyone.
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@ Da Jokah
“I support justice for everyone.”
I have to actually question if you do (seriously). Most of your points are centered around proving abagond wrong. Those that do not include this center around “others did it” arguments. Pointing that out is not really acknowledging an injustice, but rather ignoring or excusing it.
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Sharina
Abagond singles out whites while minimizing or ignoring the same behavior in others. He also makes claims that are provably false. He’s goal is to promote prejudice so of course I’m going to challenge him on it. That you agree with his prejudice doesn’t compromise my ethics but your own.
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Legion
Good question. I generally consider justice to have two essential elements. First, a reasonable and good faith effort to protect person and property from injury by others. And, second, the freedom to do with one’s own person and property as they see fit.
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@Da Jokah
“That you agree with his prejudice doesn’t compromise my ethics but your own.”—Actually it does not but I will address this later in the post, but first…
I honestly could careless why you challenge abagond, but my point (which I am disappointed that you missed) was that you do this but avoid addressing the injustice done to one (typically a black person). In doing so, you concoct excuses that lead up to vindicating the white person that does wrong. So no I don’t see you as one who “support justice for everyone.”
Now to address this idea of what I agree with and do not. Considering I mainly comment to other posters I am in awe that you know what I agree with and do not. Even more alarming is the fact that I have said not once but several times now that I do not agree with all or the majority statements for whites, blacks, or Asians seeing as I do not know nor have I met all or the majority of them. So it is amazing that you have managed to determine what I agree and do not agree with in regards to abagond let alone my ethics. Says much more about you and your “I know what you believe ideas” than it does me.
Side note* Mind reading is a talent best left for professional cons .
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sharina
my point (which I am disappointed that you missed) was that you do this but avoid addressing the injustice done to one (typically a black person). In doing so, you concoct excuses that lead up to vindicating the white person that does wrong. So no I don’t see you as one who “support justice for everyone.”
Do you have an example?
Says much more about you and your “I know what you believe ideas” than it does me.
Are you saying you disagree with his prejudice or that you’ve simply chosen not to confront him over it? All roads lead to Rome, sweetie.
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sharina
my point (which I am disappointed that you missed) was that you do this but avoid addressing the injustice done to one (typically a black person). In doing so, you concoct excuses that lead up to vindicating the white person that does wrong. So no I don’t see you as one who “support justice for everyone.”
Do you have an example?
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Da Jokah,
Abagond singles out whites while minimizing or ignoring the same behavior in others. He also makes claims that are provably false. He’s goal is to promote prejudice so of course I’m going to challenge him on it. That you agree with his prejudice doesn’t compromise my ethics but your own.
I can’t speak for Abagond, but as a fellow blogger, I have the right to blog about whatever I want just like you have self-proclaimed race realist bloggers that can blog whatever they want. I stay away from them because I know I would be walking into a lion’s den of racism. If those bloggers can blog about how they support the theory that blacks are inferior to whites in most of their titles where they mostly target blacks, why can’t people of color like me and Abagond blog about why that is wrong and discuss about white racism?
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Brothawolf
If you think their arguments are mistaken or their motives malicious then make your case. That’s what I’m doing. I could say more but you’d only get defensive.
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@Da Jokah
I prefer to not play games here. Unless you truly don’t see the many examples in oh just about every post.
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sharina
Please don’t make allegations against me if you’re not willing to provide examples to support it.
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@Da Jokah
I would not bring it up if it could not be supported, but I also don’t think you should be playing dumb as if the examples are a figment of ones imagination.
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Sharina
I would not bring it up if it could not be supported
If I thought you could support it I wouldn’t have asked for an example.
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@ Da Jokah
“If I thought you could support it I wouldn’t have asked for an example.”—OIh but I knew that. Which is why I asked you not to play games and I was hoping you would not play dumb either (though you may actually not be aware you do it).
So do take the time to refer to the Renisha McBride thread (frankly any thread for that matter).
You challenging Abagond is typical so no surprise there, but it was quite interesting how you were ready to rule it as an “accidental discharge” simply because of your experiences and because the homeowner said so. Yet the family made a say so and you jumped on that with all types of reasons why what they say was untrue. You did not put remotely that much effort in to questioning the truth of the homeowner.
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Now I will admit that you try so hard to be sly with your justifications but it really just takes one close look to realize that justifying is really all you are doing. You don’t care that the young lady lost her life (which is actually the sad part), but rather that the homeowner not receive any blame for xyz reasons.
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@Da Jokah
Trust me when I say I am not mad at you for doing it, but I don’t think you should push false statements such as “I support justice for everyone” when much of what you say in here says otherwise.
Good night.
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Sharina
At no time have I ever “ruled it an accidental discharge” or tried to “justify” it. I specifically said that an “accidental discharge” is NOT justified. As for whether it was an accidental discharge, I have no idea. Maybe it was and maybe it wasn’t. But there’s no evidence it was anything other than an accidental discharge. If I’m mistaken then tell me what that evidence would be. And can you honestly tell me that you know beyond a reasonable doubt that it wasn’t an accidental discharge? Because that’s what it takes for a jury to convict.
You don’t care that the young lady lost her life (which is actually the sad part), but rather that the homeowner not receive any blame for xyz reasons.
Not true. If there was any evidence to even suggest a crime then I’d be the first to demand he be arrested. As for you, if the woman were white would we even be having this conversation?
As for my disagreeing with abagond, his facts were so fouled up he didn’t even try to defend them. He knows that post was a dud.
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@ Da Jokah
You took issue with the facts in the post on Renisha McBride and I answered you. I wrote the post so that people could pretty much tell what came from the police and what came from the family.
Much of your disagreement came from poor reading skills and your childlike trust in the police to tell the truth.
Five days after a murder plenty is uncertain. Therefore I put out there what I knew. Readers can make of it what they will. You are confusing interpretation and fact.
Mostly I do not answer your comments because you are a borderline troll, someone who derails and deflects. Even when you make a sharp observation you lack the emotional maturity to discuss it at a serious level. Thus your name.
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Da Jokah
And that is just a clear indication of how YOU DON’T realize when you are making a justification (either that or you think you are too sly to be caught).
“As for whether it was an accidental discharge, I have no idea.”—-Really? Then explain why instead of making a post correcting the inaccuracy and stating you don’t know you went on to explain why it was possibly an “accidental incident?” No evidence? Heck there is no evidence on plenty of cases but if a person was actually concerned that would have no problem asking and addressing inaccuracies or things that just don’t make sense.
“And can you honestly tell me that you know beyond a reasonable doubt that it wasn’t an accidental discharge?”—I never said what I believe it was, but I am also not going to allow you to weasel your way out of addressing your own pre-judgments and justification by turning it on me.
I have to leave so I will respond to the remainder later.
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Da Jokah
If you think their arguments are mistaken or their motives malicious then make your case. That’s what I’m doing. I could say more but you’d only get defensive.
I’m not making a case. And I’m not the one who’s getting defensive here, especially when you continue popping up with your black-on-white crime arguments on almost every post concerning black victims and white racism.
Furthermore, I don’t think their arguments are mistaken or malicious. I KNOW they are for one simple reason. Those supposed defenders of the white race conveniently keep silently about white crimes as if they never happen. If they care so much about white people as they profess they do, why not highlight the problems of crime going on among their own which is happening way more than you or they would like to believe?
Plus, being told that I have lower intelligence or a higher desire for violence based on science that is older than they are and have been dismissed as racist illogic is malicious by definition. It serves nothing but to increase the self-esteem of white people and relieve their guilt the same way YOUR black-on-white crime responses relieve you of YOUR guilt whenever white racism is mentioned. I mean let’s get realistic here. That’s the nexus of your reason for being here.
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Da Jokah,
Just be real. The truth is that your cases of black (on-white) crime is not out of concern for white people. If it was, you would be just as concerned with white-on-white crimes, but it doesn’t appear that to be the case with you. Your real deal here is to alleviate your own personal collective white guilt. That is why most of your arguments are based on misreading and blind trust.
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Sharina
Then explain why instead of making a post correcting the inaccuracy and stating you don’t know you went on to explain why it was possibly an “accidental incident?”
Because I was responding to people who claimed it just HAD to be murder and that there was no other possible explanation.
No evidence? Heck there is no evidence on plenty of cases but if a person was actually concerned that would have no problem asking and addressing inaccuracies or things that just don’t make sense.
Not true. A prosecutor is not supposed to bring charges unless they have evidence. That’s why a case appears before a grand jury before it can proceed to trial. If a prosecutor charges someone without sufficient evidence they can be disbarred. Even worse, they can be held criminally liable.
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Brothawolf
especially when you continue popping up with your black-on-white crime arguments on almost every post concerning black victims and white racism.
Abagond’s black victims and white racism posts are usually anecdotes cherry picked to distort reality and prejudice his readers. If his concerns were legit rather than distortion I wouldn’t need to point out that it usually goes the other way.
Those supposed defenders of the white race conveniently keep silently about white crimes as if they never happen. If they care so much about white people as they profess they do, why not highlight the problems of crime going on among their own which is happening way more than you or they would like to believe?
Did you just make the reverse of abagond’s “black on black crime argument”? There may (or may not) be a fundamental difference between an individual white on black crime and a black on white crime. But there is a huge difference between the two when it comes to relative rates aka “risk”. Black crime in general is several times higher than white crime. With black on white interracial crime in particular being more than 50 times higher. Do you consider that acceptable?
Plus, being told that I have lower intelligence or a higher desire for violence based on science that is older than they are and have been dismissed as racist illogic is malicious by definition.
Averages say everything about the group and nothing about the individual.
Science has NOT dismissed the heritability of either intelligence or aggression. Mainstream psychologists and geneticists continue to research it. What’s more, you don’t dismiss it, either. Suppose you’re married and for some reason your wife can’t have children. But she really wants children so you agree to use an egg donor & invitro. Would you prefer the donor be a doctor or a high school dropout with a record?
Just be real. The truth is that your cases of black (on-white) crime is not out of concern for white people. If it was, you would be just as concerned with white-on-white crimes, but it doesn’t appear that to be the case with you.
How would you know what concerns me? You haven’t asked.
Your real deal here is to alleviate your own personal collective white guilt. That is why most of your arguments are based on misreading and blind trust.
First you said I was bitter over affirmative action, then you said I was trying to boost my self-esteem at your experience, and now you say I really just feel guilty. I assure you I don’t feel bitter or guilty. Boosting my self-esteem might make sense if my IQ were average. But I’m nowhere near average so I don’t see how comparing racial averages is going to boost my self esteem. Does comparing yourself to retarded people boost your self esteem?
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Mostly I do not answer your comments because you are a borderline troll, someone who derails and deflects. Even when you make a sharp observation you lack the emotional maturity to discuss it at a serious level. Thus your name.
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xGcnacJFN08)
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@ Da Jokah
Cont.
“Not true. If there was any evidence to even suggest a crime then I’d be the first to demand he be arrested.”—-Oh but what evidence is there to support either way? You have no idea remember? But with this no idea you support the idea of “accidental discharge.” So no you are not demanding more you are falling for less.
“As for you, if the woman were white would we even be having this conversation?”—What does any of this have to do with me. Deflecting it on to me will not change what YOU DO, but as to politely respond to your accusation of biased. If she was white I would be just as outraged. Same as I was when a white female cop was shot in a town near me and the perp decided to plead insanity (I don’t buy anyone’s insanity defense). I was against it and spoke against him pleading as such as he knew what he was doing. Better yet you can refer to a post in which I specifically said that it is annoying when I fight for hurt or killed whites but the same is not extended when a black is hurt or killed. So your biased not mine.
“As for my disagreeing with abagond, his facts were so fouled up he didn’t even try to defend them. He knows that post was a dud.”—You need to refer back to my post where I said I don’t care why you challenge him. Though I am beginning this is another example of pass the buck.
“Because I was responding to people who claimed it just HAD to be murder and that there was no other possible explanation.”—Yet you fell into the trap of taking a stance of “you know it is not”. In that you started the process of justifying why it could not be, yet you don’t know if it is or is not just like they did not.
“Not true. A prosecutor is not supposed to bring charges unless they have evidence. That’s why a case appears before a grand jury before it can proceed to trial. If a prosecutor charges someone without sufficient evidence they can be disbarred. Even worse, they can be held criminally liable.”—-Yes, but we are not currently referring to what prosecutors do now are we? As I recall we were referring to the average individual with unanswered questions in regards to a situation where a person loses their life.
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Sharina
But with this no idea you support the idea of “accidental discharge.”
I think it’s possible it was an accidental discharge. I’ve seen no evidence to suggest it wasn’t. But I haven’t said I thought it was. You’re using sly phrasing to insinuate I have.
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oooh, I missed a lot of juicy comments! @ : o O ) >
I see my Brotha, Brothawolf is back in the mix, Chew’n these racists, ass up!
@> : o O ) >
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Sondis
How are you? I miss talking to you! You here to tell those racists off?
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Da Jokah,
Abagond’s black victims and white racism posts are usually anecdotes cherry picked to distort reality and prejudice his readers. If his concerns were legit rather than distortion I wouldn’t need to point out that it usually goes the other way.
Says who? Let’s face it, you’re not exactly a source of objective information. You don’t see his views as reality or legit because you don’t want to.
Did you just make the reverse of abagond’s “black on black crime argument”? There may (or may not) be a fundamental difference between an individual white on black crime and a black on white crime. But there is a huge difference between the two when it comes to relative rates aka “risk”. Black crime in general is several times higher than white crime. With black on white interracial crime in particular being more than 50 times higher. Do you consider that acceptable?
I didn’t have Abagond’s argument in mind when I said this. I was talking about in general. A lot of black bloggers and websites discuss black-on-black crime.
And you keep saying that black crime is several times higher than white crime. This is based on numbers and stats that I suspect you misinterpreted, got from a race realist/white supremacist website or it is just made up.
Even so, you haven’t explained why this is so, as far as I know. If you’re so sure that what you said is true, why do you think that is?
Averages say everything about the group and nothing about the individual.
Science has NOT dismissed the heritability of either intelligence or aggression. Mainstream psychologists and geneticists continue to research it. What’s more, you don’t dismiss it, either. Suppose you’re married and for some reason your wife can’t have children. But she really wants children so you agree to use an egg donor & invitro. Would you prefer the donor be a doctor or a high school dropout with a record?
In other words, those race-realist sites are more true than say, anti-racist sites? Yes or no?
How would you know what concerns me? You haven’t asked.
Because you have a habit of dodging the question.
First you said I was bitter over affirmative action, then you said I was trying to boost my self-esteem at your experience, and now you say I really just feel guilty. I assure you I don’t feel bitter or guilty. Boosting my self-esteem might make sense if my IQ were average. But I’m nowhere near average so I don’t see how comparing racial averages is going to boost my self esteem. Does comparing yourself to retarded people boost your self esteem?
I think you mean, “at my own expense.”
So, you’re above average, or below average?
You’re really starting to sound like another troll that was booted from here that goes by the name of Doug. In fact, if I didn’t know it was you, I would think you were him as a sock puppet.
If you think you are of higher intelligence, you don’t seem like it in your responses.
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Welcome back, Sondis.
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Da Jokah,
If you do claim to have an above-average I.Q. your response suggest otherwise. You deflect, misinterpret, dodge and even bring up subjects that are not relevant to the discussion. And each time, you’re revealed as just a borderline troll with a child-like trust in authority and an irrational fear of blacks strong enough to want to derail any forum of white racism.
That is why I assume that you’re doing this to avoid collective white guilt, a kind of therapy to engage anti-racism bloggers with your own racist points to soothe any kind of shame you feel because you see whites as the suspect and not the victim. And I think you’re in a state of denial to realize that your “realism” is no different than those who hang around sites like Chimpout and Stormfront. Maybe you will get some respect if you just come out and admit that you have racist views.
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@ Da Jokah
A lot of things are possible, but even with possibilities it did not stop you from asserting an “accidental discharge.”
“I’ve seen no evidence to suggest it wasn’t.”– You have seen no evidence to suggest it was.
“But I haven’t said I thought it was.”—You haven’t denied that you thought it wasn’t either.
“You’re using sly phrasing to insinuate I have.”—Actually what I have said is no more sly than what you have been doing, so let’s not start calling foul. At any rate you are still justifying and that is on you, but don’t put on this front that you “support justice for everyone.”
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Folks, arguing with this pissant Jokah and his ilk is like f@rting in a paper bag and just as effective. However, if you are bored I guess it beats watching paint dry.
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Adeen:
Sondis
“How are you? I miss talking to you! You here to tell those racists off?”
I’m alright Adeen, thanks for asking, ^_^
Far as me being here to tell those racist off.
Nah, i am not here to do the dance with white folks.. There are plenty of black folk, that are willing to tango with black folks. I refuse, my focus is black people, speaking of which…would you care to boogie down, Adeen? Don’t let the smooth taste fool ya, i can do the damn thing on da dance flo! @ : o O ) >
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Brothawolf:
“Welcome back, Sondis.”
Thank you, brothawolf.
To be honest brothwolf, i don’t think these white folks, are ready……for your wisdom. -_-
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Brothawolf
And you keep saying that black crime is several times higher than white crime. This is based on numbers and stats that I suspect you misinterpreted, got from a race realist/white supremacist website or it is just made up.
It’s based on NCVS numbers from the BJS website. I’ve already provided links.
In other words, those race-realist sites are more true than say, anti-racist sites? Yes or no?
That’s not what I said. I said, “Science has NOT dismissed the heritability of either intelligence or aggression. Mainstream psychologists and geneticists continue to research it.”
+
Sharina
You haven’t denied that you thought it wasn’t either.
(http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lwg6cwaMzA1qzjix8.gif)
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@Da jokah
*sly smile*
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interesting article idk how to feel about this one http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/nov/09/i-hate-being-a-black-man
I do think black males should discuss self hate as we see some documentaries and vids about black women struggling with self hate and trying to heal. it would be nice to see one for the brothas.
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Da Jokah
It’s based on NCVS numbers from the BJS website. I’ve already provided links.
And how did you calculate those stats to fit your stance?
That’s not what I said. I said, “Science has NOT dismissed the heritability of either intelligence or aggression. Mainstream psychologists and geneticists continue to research it.”
Even so, that’s still no excuse to bring up black-on-white crime in blogs and forums that do not focus on black-on-white crime or black crime as their general subject.
Where did you get the research that suggest this statement? And I’ll ask again, do you think race-realist websites are closer to the truth than anti-racism blog?
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Also Da Jokah,
I’m afraid to ask, but have you been a victim of black crime?
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@ legion
yeah some of the things he said I was like wow wtf, he has wrote some other self hatish things. when I read it I felt he was ashamed and blames his blackness on why ppl avoid him instead of blaming them for their hang ups. I bet if he could be white for a day he would. I just wonder what kind of environment he lived in and how his parents raised him. Some people like him are blaming themselves for racism and thinking dang if I didn’t have this skin i’d be alright, instead of saying u know what if people are that shallow and would deny themselves my presence because of their own hatred then they don’t deserve to be around me.
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Gotta say this blog has really helped me understand alot about other people and myself but it seems at this time to be galvanizing or polarizing my thoughts about a lot of stuff to some degree and idk my girlfriend is saying stuff like you worry too much about what people think, and its not all just black and white as in a racial context… personally my thoughts are more towards finding some kind of solution to some of the problems here, like i want to almost say not that i have read enough but i guess coming to another level? Its hard to explain and im driving…
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Huh. I been in about 8 street fights stabbed, pistol whipped, cut in the head with a razor, nose broke twice, and had about 12 guns pointed at me in anger those were all cops except one oh yeah hit in the head with a hammer
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Oh yeah bull broke my nose 1st time whipped me with a golf club till it broke first
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I also took a rock or brick to the back of the head. That was all as an adult, as a kid ie like 12 or so about 5 street fights
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Brothawolf
And how did you calculate those stats to fit your stance?
I didn’t calculate stats to “fit my stance.” The numbers are what they are.
Even so, that’s still no excuse to bring up black-on-white crime in blogs and forums that do not focus on black-on-white crime or black crime as their general subject.
Do you only want information that supports your perceptions of whites as aggressor and blacks as victim? Sometimes that’s the case. More often it’s not. The views and opinions expressed on this blog more than justify my pointing that out.
Where did you get the research that suggest this statement? And I’ll ask again, do you think race-realist websites are closer to the truth than anti-racism blog?
The wikipedia articles concerning “Heritability of IQ” and “Genetics of aggression” cite plenty of mainstream sources suggesting “Science has NOT dismissed the heritability of either intelligence or aggression. Mainstream psychologists and geneticists continue to research it.” The American Psychological Association has even stated that as their consensus opinion.
As for which websites are closer to the truth it’s hard to say. I don’t know what websites you’re reading. I’d prefer to judge each claim based on its own merits rather than on who’s making it.
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Since you asked, I’m more than happy to show my work just as I’m happy to cite my sources. If you can find an error I’d be more than happy to correct it.
+
FBI’s Expanded Homicide Data Table 6 for 2011
Total W offenders: 2630 + 193 + 45 + 36 = 2904
Total B offenders: 448 + 2447 + 36 + 27 = 2958
(B offenders / W offenders) X (WBR)
(2958 / 2904) X 6 = 6
Blacks 6 times more likely to commit homicide
(B-W offenders/W-B offenders) X (WBR)
(448 / 193) X 6 = 13.92
Blacks are ~14 times as likely to commit an interracial homicide.
+
FBI’s National Crime Victimization Survey
From Table 42 (single ofender)
B-W: 2,788,600 x 15.4% = 429,444
W-B: 570,550 x 15.9% = 90,718
From Table 48 (multiple offender)
B-W: 726,530 x 19.5% = 141,673
W-B: 169,550 x 0.0% = 0
(Total B-W / (Total crime)
(429,444 + 141,673 x 2.5) / (429,444 + (141,673 x 2.5) + 90,718)
783,626 / 874,344 = 89.6%
Blacks commit ~90% of violent interracial crime
(Total B-W) / (Total W-B) x (WBR)
(783,626 / 90,718) x 6 = 51.8
Blacks are more than 50 times as likely to commit a violent interracial crime against whites.
Notes:
Black on White (B-W)
White on Black (W-B)
White Population 78%
Black population 13%
White Black Ratio (WBR) = 78/13 = 6
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As not to take the other thread off topic:
Oh I know @ Da Jokah…..since you are not peddling the lie of ” I’d prefer to judge each claim based on its own merits rather than on who’s making it.” Why don’t you do a search and read up on black inventions that whites are taking credit for or even black inventions and contributions in general. This should lead to an interesting research project for you. 🙂
I am sure this (http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lwg6cwaMzA1qzjix8.gif) will be quite an appropriate response.
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correction *now
(http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lw8clkCtYl1r0ozvoo1_500.gif)
Oh but thank you for getting me hook on these gif images and such. Nice touch to any comment. 🙂
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Da Jokah,
Do you only want information that supports your perceptions of whites as aggressor and blacks as victim? Sometimes that’s the case. More often it’s not. The views and opinions expressed on this blog more than justify my pointing that out.
I want information that’s legit and unbiased. I want the information to tell it like it is.
I also noticed the keywords in your response which are ‘opinions’ and ‘views’. This blog was founded by someone with his own information just like any other blogger. And like any other blogger he forms his own opinion from that information.
But here you are saying that his views and opinions are anti-white. I also noticed you never explaining why this is so.
And who is to say that views and comments expressed here didn’t come from information. Only people like you whose only main argument is that it is anti-white and that black-on-white crime is the REAL problem and not white racism. This is all according to you and like-minded individuals.
I hope you realize that that kind of mentality has been around before you were born. White people have had that mindset that black people are more criminal prone ever since they were “freed”. There were false incidences of black-on-white crimes where the perpetrator was white, but whiteness prevented white people from being seen as criminals. So, they blamed it on black people, and before you know it, all hell broke loose, all because they wanted to protect white criminals because they wanted to protect their image and privileges.
This is what I see with your responses, protecting the image of white people with your comments whenever racism is discussed. In a way you’re supporting white racism.
The wikipedia articles concerning “Heritability of IQ” and “Genetics of aggression” cite plenty of mainstream sources suggesting “Science has NOT dismissed the heritability of either intelligence or aggression. Mainstream psychologists and geneticists continue to research it.” The American Psychological Association has even stated that as their consensus opinion.
As for which websites are closer to the truth it’s hard to say. I don’t know what websites you’re reading. I’d prefer to judge each claim based on its own merits rather than on who’s making it.
Wikipedia is not always a reliable source in knowledge. And I know you know exactly what kind of websites I’m talking about. You sound like you hung around them quite a bit lol 🙂
As for your calculations, I can tell where you got some numbers from the table but where did the other numbers come from?
For examples:
Total W offenders: 2630 + 193 + 45 + 36 = 2904
Total B offenders: 448 + 2447 + 36 + 27 = 2958
Where did the 45,36,36,27 came from?
Also where did the formulas come from?
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*trepidatiously grateful*
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rofl @ the gifs
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@mstoogood4yall: I was looking over my book shelf at my books and saw an author I wanted to turn you on to Bernice McFadden’s Glorious, I enjoyed that book, I love how she mixed fiction up with actual black history, and her other book “A Gathering of Waters, Then there is Martha Southgate she is an excellent writer. The Fall Of Rome and The Taste Of Salt” they write fiction, but are very good writers. I thought I would turn you on to them if you haven’t read or heard of them.
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ok thanks ms mary I will look it up right now
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Glorious looks really good, I just read an excerpt and i’m liking it so far, it is kinda heartbreaking I hope it gets better.
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@mstoogood4yall: I see stuff and I like to share it with you.
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@ mstoogood4yall: A Gathering of Water is really beautiful, check that one out to.
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@mstoogod4yall: The Fall of Rome was good, So is “The Taste Of Salt”
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Brothawolf
Wikipedia is not always a reliable source in knowledge.
The point of referencing the articles was the citations and not the articles themselves. The citations suggest that “Science has NOT dismissed the heritability of either intelligence or aggression. Mainstream psychologists and geneticists continue to research it.”
Where did the 45,36,36,27 came from?
If you’ll look at the columns under “race of offender” you’ll see the numbers “2630 193 45 36” listed under the “white” column and “448 2447 36 27” under the “black” column.
Also where did the formulas come from?
Fourth grade.
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@ mary
Bernice McFadden seems like a great author just from reading the excerpts it grabs me and I love how she describes things and makes it come to life. felt like I was watching a movie in my mind when I read part of the book. I will have to get her books in a few months.
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@mstoogood4yall: I really enjoy her books. Check them out.
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@ Average Bee @ Adonis: Comments deleted for use of moderated language.
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Da Jokah
The point of referencing the articles was the citations and not the articles themselves. The citations suggest that “Science has NOT dismissed the heritability of either intelligence or aggression. Mainstream psychologists and geneticists continue to research it.”
Okay, at least you answered that much.
Still, that doesn’t explain why you have such a fixation on black crime. For some reason, you make it seem that white crime is as rare as Bigfoot sightings or as insignificant as getting a splinter. And I admit that I’ve never taken a course on calculating statistics, but it seems highly unlikely that a minority of a certain population is either responsible for more crime in this nation or is more likely to commit crime. Does that mean that whites are a criminal race themselves? No. But when you look at it, it’s practically common sense that the majority of the population is responsible for the majority of the nation’s crime, including violent crime.
Yet, you seem to have a major problem with any instances of white racism or white-on-black crime. It’s like saying that is not an issue as black-on-white crime according to numbers you’ve gotten. And really, you haven’t explain why you think black-on-white crime occurs.
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@ Brothawolf
“Does that mean that whites are a criminal race themselves?”
You want stats? Look at their history; the wars, conquest. Go crunch them numbers.
But Jokah is gonna to deflate the numbers, right? As though smallpox and white invaders don’t go hand-in-hand in a genocide?
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Average Bee
I know it. You know it. And Da Jokah knows it as well.
Linda in another thread referred to Riverside_Rob as a professional racist a.k.a. race realist. I consider Da Jokah as one as well. These guys deliberately enter anti-racism sites to promote the hatred/fear of black people by relying on statistics and news articles.
I don’t by into Jokah’s statistics because 1. numbers can be fixed and 2. numbers do not tell you everything to make a sweeping condemnation of one race. Jokah uses numbers to conclude that black people are more violent than whites. Of course, that’s a load of crap. But this is what they do to intellectualize their fear and hatred.
And when we respond with our own arguments, some will throw fits or stubbornly argue on repeating their propaganda over and over again, because they believe it. They think their views are objective without question. And any strong disagreements are scoffed. They ask for proof, but they never consider it. Their race realism is the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth in their minds.
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rofl it makes no sense for people to come on here and try to prove blacks are more violent when it’s mostly blacks and poc that make up this website. There is no way that majority people on here will agree with that. You’re fighting an uphill battle. Why not go to a website where u can be around ppl that will actually agree with u like idk stormfront, yahoo or fox. Idk why people waste their time. I’m not going to waste my time at any of those websites and try to prove to people they are wrong, i’d be outnumbered and just wasting my time trying to prove to them they are wrong in their thinking.
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@mstoogood4yall
I think they are in the stage of trying to convince themselves they are not as bad as them. They are better or more civil perhaps even more logical.
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so they believe that is.
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Brothawolf
Okay, at least you answered that much.
I said the citations were the point the first time I mentioned the wikipedia articles. Maybe I should have been more clear about my reason.
Still, that doesn’t explain why you have such a fixation on black crime.
Why are abagond and his readers so fixated on whites considering how rarely whites commit crimes against blacks?
For some reason, you make it seem that white crime is as rare as Bigfoot sightings or as insignificant as getting a splinter.
I haven’t said white crime didn’t exist or was insignificant. However, most violent white crime is the result of an argument with a relative or acquaintance. There’s a lot one can do about that. For example, they can avoid hotheads prone to violence or not provoke a violent crime by being a hothead themselves. But there’s not a lot one can do to prevent violent crime committed by strangers. You can avoid someone you know is violent but it’s not so easy to avoid violent strangers.
And I admit that I’ve never taken a course on calculating statistics, but it seems highly unlikely that a minority of a certain population is either responsible for more crime in this nation or is more likely to commit crime. Does that mean that whites are a criminal race themselves? No. But when you look at it, it’s practically common sense that the majority of the population is responsible for the majority of the nation’s crime, including violent crime.
To clarify, in raw numbers blacks commit more homicides but whites commit more violent crime. The issue is that blacks commit both at such a disproportionately higher rate as well as targeting whites at a disproportionately higher rate. We both know that if the reverse were true you’d be very concerned about it and rightly so. We also know that Abagond would be writing about it non-stop.
Yet, you seem to have a major problem with any instances of white racism or white-on-black crime. It’s like saying that is not an issue as black-on-white crime according to numbers you’ve gotten.
It’s not true that I’m not concerned about it. However, it’s undeniable from the numbers that it is much less of an issue.
And really, you haven’t explain why you think black-on-white crime occurs.
Why do you think it occurs?
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Brothawolf
I consider Da Jokah as one as well. These guys deliberately enter anti-racism sites to promote the hatred/fear of black people by relying on statistics and news articles.
This blog is in no way “anti-racist”. It’s obvious that Abagond and most of his readers are completely racist. For example, the person you wrote that comment to has repeatedly had posts deleted for using racial slurs and advocating killing whites. That’s not because Abagond objects to racial slurs against whites. He wants to maintain a false air of respectability. But no one buys it.
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@ Da Jokah
I delete comments because I secretly agree with them? That’s a new one. Did I ban Asplund because I secretly agreed with him too?
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Abagond
I didn’t say you banned Asplund because you secretly agreed with him. I said you deleted average bee’s comments because you wanted to maintain a false air of respectability and not because you disagreed with her. Since you brought up banning Asplund, I noticed you didn’t ban Average Bee for advocating killing whites. I doubt you would have shown Asplund that leniency.
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Da Jokah,
I said the citations were the point the first time I mentioned the wikipedia articles. Maybe I should have been more clear about my reason.
And like I said, at least you answered that much.
Why are abagond and his readers so fixated on whites considering how rarely whites commit crimes against blacks?
I dunno. Ask him.
Anyway, you’re trying to make it seem that white people have hardly ever touched black people, and it has never happened often. I assume you know about the bloody history of the past. Yet, like so many white folks, you dismiss it faster than you dismiss proof of the Lock Ness Monster. I also think your definition of crime is that of violence against another group, and that you’ve taken them from certain sources from a certain perspective, one that somehow talks to you in a way that you would listen because it pleases you in a way like hearing that the hottest woman in the world likes you.
I haven’t said white crime didn’t exist or was insignificant. However, most violent white crime is the result of an argument with a relative or acquaintance. There’s a lot one can do about that. For example, they can avoid hotheads prone to violence or not provoke a violent crime by being a hothead themselves. But there’s not a lot one can do to prevent violent crime committed by strangers. You can avoid someone you know is violent but it’s not so easy to avoid violent strangers.
So, what you’re saying is that in the case of black-on-white crime, most of that is due to random targeting of whites by black strangers? Also, do you think that white crime is just limited to physical violence?
Anyone, regardless of being an expert or not, will tell you crime is not just physical violence but institutionalized or systematic violence. Again, from this comment, you make it appear that violent crime is all that is relevant.
To clarify, in raw numbers blacks commit more homicides but whites commit more violent crime. The issue is that blacks commit both at such a disproportionately higher rate as well as targeting whites at a disproportionately higher rate. We both know that if the reverse were true you’d be very concerned about it and rightly so. We also know that Abagond would be writing about it non-stop.
I won’t argue the numbers in arrests when it comes to murder, but going by raw numbers lead to errors. The FBI reports arrests in the table most often used to refute black-on-white crime. That doesn’t really mean that all crime has been acknowledged, nor does it mean that those arrested are imprisoned or that all those involved are arrested.
Most of the time you mentioned black-on-white crime, not black-on-white murder. Murder is just one category of crime. But whatever, your chance of being murdered by a black person are actually miniscule. You should be more worried about being killed by a white person.
Since you mentioned that violent white crime is the result of arguments, not including robbery, rape or DUIs for some reason, with other white relatives or acquaintances, than you need to stop worrying about a black thug shooting you for no reason and worry more about the white fool you may know that may knock you out over something or a drunk white guy from a frat party who’s behind the wheel.
In short, most crime is intraracial, not interracial.
It’s not true that I’m not concerned about it. However, it’s undeniable from the numbers that it is much less of an issue.
Yeah. Right. You could care less about white-on-black crime because in your own words, it’s rare. So, it doesn’t matter, does it?
Why do you think it occurs?
I asked you first.
This blog is in no way “anti-racist”. It’s obvious that Abagond and most of his readers are completely racist. For example, the person you wrote that comment to has repeatedly had posts deleted for using racial slurs and advocating killing whites. That’s not because Abagond objects to racial slurs against whites. He wants to maintain a false air of respectability. But no one buys it.
Says you.
Tell me, what is racism to you? If you tell me, I’ll tell you what it is to me.
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I thought this was cute and so very true http://tallncurly.com/2013/11/06/30-years-of-little-girls-learning-dance-moves-from-music-videos/
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Brothawolf
I assume you know about the bloody history of the past.
Yes, I know all about the bloody past. Some use it to excuse the bloody present.
So, what you’re saying is that in the case of black-on-white crime, most of that is due to random targeting of whites by black strangers?
Stranger homicides are more likely to cross racial lines than those that involve friends or acquaintances. And blacks are 4 times more like to kill a white stranger as the reverse. So there appears to be some truth in that.
That doesn’t really mean that all crime has been acknowledged, nor does it mean that those arrested are imprisoned or that all those involved are arrested.
It’s true that not every crime is reported and not everyone who’s arrested is charged or convicted. But the FBI surveys the general population asking whether they’ve been the victim of a crime in the previous year. The results closely match the numbers reported by the police. So there’s a great deal of confidence in the data.
Murder is just one category of crime. But whatever, your chance of being murdered by a black person are actually miniscule. You should be more worried about being killed by a white person.
I appreciate the advice. But I doubt you’d think so if whites were murdering blacks at 14 times the reverse.
In short, most crime is intraracial, not interracial.
Actually, blacks commit violent crime against whites at a higher rate than they do against other blacks.
I asked you first.
I don’t let people pull my string. If you have something to say then say it.
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@ Da Jokah
How does the FBI survey victims of murder?
That sounds wrong. Please show how you arrived at that conclusion.
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Agabond, I am beginning to think that you just like playing with these people’s minds. Because I sense that they put a lot of effort into writing elaborate, quasi-logical rebuttals to your posts. And yet, you don’t get flustered by them.
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FBI’s National Crime Victimization Survey
From Table 42 (single offender)
B-W: 2,788,600 x 15.4% = 429,444
B-B: 570,550 x 64.7% = 369,146
From Table 48 (multiple offender)
B-W: 726,530 x 19.5% = 141,673
B-B: 169,550 x 69.3% = 117,498
(Total B-W / (Total Black crime)
(429,444 + 141,673 x 2.5) / (429,444 + (141,673 x 2.5) + 369,146 + (117,498 X 2.5))
783,626 / 1,446,519 = 54.2%
Blacks commit ~54% of their violent crime against whites
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From Table 42 (single offender)
W-W: 2,788,600 x 67.4% = 1,879,516
W-B: 570,550 x 15.9% = 90,718
From Table 48 (multiple offender)
W-W: 726,530 x 42.4% = 770,121
W-B: 169,550 x 0.0% = 0
(Total W-B / (Total white crime)
(1,879,516 + 770,121 x 2.5) / (1,879,516 + (770,121 x 2.5) + 90,718 (0 X 2.5))
2,649,638 / 2,740,355 = 3.3%
Whites commit ~3% of their violent crime against blacks
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How hard is it to get stats from 2011 or 2012? I mean geez.
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Da Jokah
Yes, I know all about the bloody past. Some use it to excuse the bloody present.
I’ve never heard any black person beat up, kill or rape a white person because of slavery.
Stranger homicides are more likely to cross racial lines than those that involve friends or acquaintances. And blacks are 4 times more like to kill a white stranger as the reverse. So there appears to be some truth in that.
So, I guess cannibalism, torturing, bestiality and pedophilia are not strange, at least according to you. lol
Anyway, using the words more likely doesn’t predetermine that a murder will occur. In a sense, it’s prejudice to make a conclusion.
It’s true that not every crime is reported and not everyone who’s arrested is charged or convicted. But the FBI surveys the general population asking whether they’ve been the victim of a crime in the previous year. The results closely match the numbers reported by the police. So there’s a great deal of confidence in the data.
Does that include murder, like asking a white corpse if you’ve been killed by a black person? lol
I appreciate the advice. But I doubt you’d think so if whites were murdering blacks at 14 times the reverse.
Still on the interracial kick, eh?
I doubt you want to face that the people you need to worry about are white instead of black.
Actually, blacks commit violent crime against whites at a higher rate than they do against other blacks.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. We heard you say that a billion times. We saw your formula. We saw your links. Doesn’t mean that it’s valid or that we have to believe it, especially when there’s others who are more adapt at reading and calculating stats.
I don’t let people pull my string. If you have something to say then say it.
I just asked you a question. No need to get your underwear in a bunch. I just asked what racism is to you. You wanted me to answer first. And here you come acting like you’re the big man on campus. All I’m asking is for an answer to my question. lmao 🙂
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Sharina
The data was from 2008 but if you’ll look at the bottom right you’ll see “May 2011” on every page. I mean geez.
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@Brothawolf,
You don’t need to be an adept reader of stats to tell what Da Jokah is up to here. lol.
He’s trying to get folks to ignore the much bigger number of white crimes by massaging it into his dubious “rate” and, amazingly, asking folks not to believe their lying eyes. The FBI/BJS charts provide all the information ones needs. They tell you right there that black and whites victimize other blacks and whites at much higher percentages than they victimize people of other races.
I don’t know if he was fed that or got it from somewhere else but I hope so because such an embarrassing effort at manipulation is just sad.
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ks and kiwi,
Oh yes. Da Jokah can’t fathom that he and white people are more likely to be a victim of a crime by other whites as opposed to blacks. It doesn’t make since that a small segment of the population would pose a threat to the larger portion. Jokah’s trying to make it sound like the white race is in danger of being killed by black folks out of shear unexplained hatred for the white man. And that’s all that matters to him and like-minded whites.
Da Jokah,
This and other anti-racist websites and blogs DO NOT advocate for the elimination of white people. They DO NOT advocate for the enslavement of white people. They DO NOT command black men to rape white women. They DO NOT suggest a plan to invade Europe, kidnap millions of European citizens against their will, force them into subjugation, strip them of their heritages and culture, force them into accepting new identities through brute force and love and serve black people for ever because a black god says so. And I’m sure not too many of them refer to white people using racial epithets. Like Kiwi said, it would take a very LONG time for black-on-white violence to match that of white-on-black violence. That is the honest truth.
Frankly, you race-realist, statistics manipulating, pseudo-intellectual, black fearing people are really the most paranoid people on the planet. You are afraid of losing your whiteness. Tell me, Jokah. What does being white mean to you?
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I think Da Jokah also believes we’re not capable of seeing past his act even though we’ve seen this show hundreds of times. Honestly, these race-realist types have a better chance of convincing a chimp than a rational, well-educated human being.
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kiwi
Oh, yeah? Well, if you say so. But how does that justify even one violent crime against an innocent person?
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Brothawolf
Da Jokah can’t fathom that he and white people are more likely to be a victim of a crime by other whites as opposed to blacks
Like I said, you wouldn’t dismiss rates if the numbers were reversed. It’s interesting, however, how you will all cite abagond’s ‘black on black crime argument’ when it suits you. But you’ll turn right around and make a ‘white on white crime argument’ when it doesn’t. Interesting but not surprising.
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@ Da Jokah
You did not answer either question:
1. How does the FBI survey victims of murder?
2. How do you know that “Actually, blacks commit violent crime against whites at a higher rate than they do against other blacks.”
Your calculations only gave absolute numbers, not rates. It left out other races.
Going with your numbers for violent crime by blacks::
54% directed at whites
46% directed at blacks
0% directed at other races
In 2008 blacks were 12.8% of the population, while whites were 79.8%. That means there were 6.2 times more whites than blacks.
Using your trick of multiplying by 6 to get the black rate:
54 for whites
276 for blacks
So, according to your own numbers, blacks are 5.1 times more likely to be the victim of a black violent criminal than whites are.
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“Oh yeah, well if you say so” loosely translated means “I lost the argument but I will keep trying so as not to lose face”
“Interesting but not surprising” loosely translated means “I am desperately trying to seem intellectual even though my prejudices are being exposed”
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@ Da Jokah
For someone who does not like their strings pulled it is amazing how easy it is for me to make you dance (pop it and lock it buddy). May 2011 being stamped on the page does not change in the slightest that the data is from 2008 now does it? So is milk that was made in 2008 safe to drink if you brought it in 2011? Now as I said before…. HOW HARD IS IT TO GET STATS FROM 2011 OR 2012? Now you are free to roll over a play dumb. 🙂
(http://i1005.photobucket.com/albums/af180/sodexnoxshirayuki/output3.gif)
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@Kiwi
awww but you know with da Jokah it is not about fairness. I often imagine da jokah as one of those dudes that cross the street when he sees blacks coming and once across the street he is attacked by some white dude and he yells…”but the stats say you are less likely to attack me!” and the guy says “welp I guess those stats are not reliable.”
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@ mstoogood
The article* you posted was so true. At the end, what was being pushed for little girls to imitate can’t be dressed up as anything “proudly cultural” or anything like that.
*(http://tallncurly.com/2013/11/06/30-years-of-little-girls-learning-dance-moves-from-music-videos/)
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There’s a exhibit showing a university in Sao Paulo showing photos of Brazilian slavery. The photos are taken during the late 19th century leading up the end of slavery in that country. It was at this time that the violence towards the Africans was increasing:
About the exhibit:
(http://www.npr.org/blogs/parallels/2013/11/12/244563532/photos-reveal-harsh-detail-of-brazils-history-with-slavery?utm_content=socialflow&utm_campaign=nprfacebook&utm_source=npr&utm_medium=facebook)
A selection of the photos:
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jRZRa4H8674)
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http://www.globalresearch.ca/what-is-the-real-agenda-of-the-american-police-state/5358094
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Abagond
1. How does the FBI survey victims of murder?
The FBI usually leaves the task of surveying corpses up to the medical examiner.
2. How do you know that “Actually, blacks commit violent crime against whites at a higher rate than they do against other blacks.”
Your calculations only gave absolute numbers, not rates. It left out other races.
To find the relative rates
(B-W crime) / (B-B crime) = 783,627 / 662,891 = 1.18
(B-B crime) / (B-W crime) = 662,891 / 783,627 = 0.85
1.18 > 0.85
Why would I include other races when I was being asked to show that “blacks commit violent crime against whites at a higher rate than they do against other blacks?” Please don’t move the goal posts.
Using your trick of multiplying by 6 to get the black rate:
The correction factor is only necessary when comparing black and white rates. Since we were comparing a black rate to a black rate it wasn’t necessary.
So, according to your own numbers, blacks are 5.1 times more likely to be the victim of a black violent criminal than whites are.
Maybe so. But that wasn’t the question.
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http://goo.gl/ZdB1bO
Of course I realize. But I enjoy it. 🙂
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A shocking new study by the American Civil Liberties Union has found that more than 3,200 people nationwide are serving life terms without parole for nonviolent offenses. Of those prisoners, 80 percent are behind bars for drug-related convictions.
Sixty-five percent are African American, 18 percent are white, and 16 percent are Latino — evidence of what the ACLU calls “extreme racial disparities.”
The crimes that led to life sentences include stealing gas from a truck, shoplifting, possessing a crack pipe, facilitating a $10 sale of marijuana, and attempting to cash a stolen check. We speak with Jennifer Turner, human rights researcher and author of the new ACLU report, “A Living Death: Life Without Parole for Nonviolent Offenses.”
(http://youtu.be/g_fO4Bw4XU8)
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Sondis
It sounds like the “3 strikes and you’re out” law. The problem with stories like this is that when you look into the details the circumstances are often very different than what others would have you believe. Someone might have a long string of arrests for rape, murder, armed robbery, etc. But he gets that last conviction for something petty like stealing a donut and everyone says all he did was steal a donut.
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yCYvtz8oNdw)
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@ Da Jokah
If violent black criminals chose victims completely at random, then 79.8% of their victims would be white and 12.8% black. But according to your own numbers, they are 54% white and 46% black. That means blacks are getting hit at a rate higher than their population and whites at a lower rate.
The rate was the question. Rate is based on population, not the overall numbers alone.
Your correction factor certainly does apply since blacks are only 13% of the population.
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abagond
Not sure what happened but the wrong post got deleted – it is the one above yours I was on about posted at 21:18.33
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Da Jokah,
Like I said, you wouldn’t dismiss rates if the numbers were reversed. It’s interesting, however, how you will all cite abagond’s ‘black on black crime argument’ when it suits you. But you’ll turn right around and make a ‘white on white crime argument’ when it doesn’t. Interesting but not surprising.
No matter what you think about how I think, I would still consider it, research more and go indepth as opposed to just taking it in without question. That’s what it means to truly think.
Like I said, the issue of black-on-black crime has been discussed many times over in the mainstream and in the internet. It is totally up to the people whether they want to cover it or not, and they have over and over.
When was the last time you heard ‘white-on-white crime’ in the mainstream or at all? Hardly ever, particularly seeing as how many people have this no-level reasoning that since it’s not mentioned that it doesn’t happen.
Bottom line, when you dismiss white-on-white and white-on-black crimes but not black-on-black or black-on-white crimes, it’s more than clear that you have a racial bias that you want to inject into this blog that doesn’t cater to your white victimization/black predatory wants. I see it when you pick and choose which comments and questions to respond to. You can argue that no one can make you respond, and that’s true, but at the same time you can not make us think how you want us to think. If that’s not what you’re doing, then what’s really the point in coming here in the first place?
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@ Omnipresent
I think I got it right this time. Please let me know if it is not.
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Abagond
If violent black criminals chose victims completely at random, then 79.8% of their victims would be white and 12.8% black.
If that were true then why don’t other groups choose victims according to their percentage of the US population? The mistake is in assuming people live and socialize randomly. Yet you’ve repeatedly written that America is still largely segregated. You can’t have it both ways. If crime were truly random we would expect to see it follow the segregated pattern of neighborhoods and not US population percentages. This is evidenced by stranger homicides being more likely to cross racial lines than those that involve friends or acquaintances. That blacks are 4 times more like to kill a white stranger as the reverse demonstrates targeting.
The rate was the question. Rate is based on population, not the overall numbers alone.
If the same black population that commits 783,627 violent crimes against whites only commits 662,891 violent crimes against other blacks how can you say that black population doesn’t commit violent crimes against whites at a higher rate than against other blacks? You can use raw numbers and put it in terms of the entire black population or you can divide the raw numbers by 39,000 to put it in terms of 1K blacks. Either way it’s a higher rate.
Taking blacks to be 13% of 300 million gives us 39million. Dividing 39million by 39,000 gives us 1K. Dividing the B-W and B-B crime rates by 39,000 to put them in terms of 1,000 blacks gives us a B-W crime rate of 2,0 per 1K blacks and a B-B crime rate of 1,7 per 1K blacks.
2.0 per 1K > 1.7 per 1K
Your correction factor certainly does apply since blacks are only 13% of the population.
Why do we need a correction factor to compare a black crime rate to a black crime rate?
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Abagond:
Which post is the upside map at the top from? I remember you did a post on that but can’t find it.
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I believe it is Peters projection
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@sondis and rr it’s called ‘3 strikes and you’re in’ from california, ronald reagan was governor. there is a lot of overcrowding in ca state prisons, there is a federal issue going on to reduce the gp there, i know pa is running about 110% of capacity on the state level
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Brothawolf
When was the last time you heard ‘white-on-white crime’ in the mainstream or at all? Hardly ever, particularly seeing as how many people have this no-level reasoning that since it’s not mentioned that it doesn’t happen.
I don’t think so. Most people would probably assume that if it’s not mentioned it’s probably white. Similarly, if you’re in japan or mexico most people would probably assume that unless a specific ethnicity was mentioned that it’s probably japanese or mexican. I think that’s PART of the reason. I think the other part is that black crime is so out of proportion it’s impossible to ignore. It’s become a thing unto itself.
Bottom line, when you dismiss white-on-white and white-on-black crimes but not black-on-black or black-on-white crimes, it’s more than clear that you have a racial bias
You mean like the way abagond harps on white people while ignoring and minimizing when others have done similarly? Back to your point, I haven’t dismissed anything. The simple fact is that rates matter. The absolute number of W-W crimes may be higher but those crimes are spread over a much larger population. So the individual risk of murder or violent crime from any single black is 14 and 50 times higher, respectively, than the risk from any single white. Nor is that risk distributed evenly. It’s going to be a lot higher for a white person living in Detroit or New Orleans than a white person living in Mayberry or Manhattan. So rates make a huge difference. One would be biased NOT to acknowledge it.
I see it when you pick and choose which comments and questions to respond to.
I addressed every substantive question you had. But I won’t be lead down the garden path with questions of personal opinion.
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@ Sharina: Yes it is Peter’s projection.
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@ Mary
Thank you so very much for clarifying.
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Thank you, Sharina. I saw Peter’s Projection but I thought there had been another one dealing more with the fact that Europe was at the top and Africa at the bottom. I have an explanation for why that was and wasn’t sure where to comment.
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@DJ
OK, 3 things:
1. Since when has it ever been assumed that Americans are white?
2. Not mentioning “white” but mentioning everything else has the effect of normalizing whiteness, but making everything else, well, not normal. Since when is whiteness the standard for normalcy?
3. Your analogy with Mexico and the other places is not apples to apples. Mexico has people of European descent, Native American descent, African descent and also Asian descent and many mixed combinations. For your analogy to work, we would have to pick one group in Mexico as the “normal” group and then affix a label to all the others. To do the same in America, there would be no label for white Americans or Black Americans — They would simply all be labelled Americans.
(I actually have heard people label Mexicans sometimes, eg, “white” Mexican, “black” Mexican, “native (American) Indian Mexican”, “Chinese” Mexican. )
This bizarre practice of not labeling white people and labeling everyone else has got to go.
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“This bizarre practice of not labeling white people and labeling everyone else has got to go.”—I second that!
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@Da Jokah
You’re welcome.
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@ peanut
Deleted your post for moderated language.
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jefe
1. 1776
2. I said most people would probably assume that if it’s not mentioned it’s probably white. I didn’t say everything else was mentioned.
3. That’s not been my experience there.
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Da Jokah,
I don’t think so. Most people would probably assume that if it’s not mentioned it’s probably white. Similarly, if you’re in japan or mexico most people would probably assume that unless a specific ethnicity was mentioned that it’s probably japanese or mexican. I think that’s PART of the reason. I think the other part is that black crime is so out of proportion it’s impossible to ignore. It’s become a thing unto itself.
So, what does it mean when most of the crime reported in local news stations across the nation report violent crimes committed by blacks in the first ten minutes? Does that automatically mean that most violent crimes are committed by blacks? Yes or no answers please.
You mean like the way abagond harps on white people while ignoring and minimizing when others have done similarly? Back to your point, I haven’t dismissed anything. The simple fact is that rates matter. The absolute number of W-W crimes may be higher but those crimes are spread over a much larger population. So the individual risk of murder or violent crime from any single black is 14 and 50 times higher, respectively, than the risk from any single white. Nor is that risk distributed evenly. It’s going to be a lot higher for a white person living in Detroit or New Orleans than a white person living in Mayberry or Manhattan. So rates make a huge difference. One would be biased NOT to acknowledge it.
That still means that white people are more likely to be killed by other whites the same way blacks are more likely to be killed by other blacks. And if there are convergences between the two people in any given area, then yes. There will likely be crimes that cross color boundaries. However, to conclude that black-on-white murders are racist is jumping the gun. Most murders of that sort is based on opportunity and proximity, while others are based on fear along with – like you stated – interpersonal confrontations involving rage.
BUT, black-on-white murders at the rate it’s going year by year will do nothing to destroy the White American group’s status. Yes, it’s terrible like any other murder, but it will not cave in the foundations of whiteness in this nation when very few in relation to the population happen each year.
I addressed every substantive question you had. But I won’t be lead down the garden path with questions of personal opinion.
You still haven’t told me what racism is to you or what your definition is of being white, but I guess they weren’t substantive enough, eh? lol
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I feel conditioned to violence, to a large degree.
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Brothawolf
Yes or no answers please.
I can’t answer yes or no because I haven’t lived everywhere. Based on where I have lived I’d say the local news generally covered crimes in the proportions of which it was committed. With an emphasis on murders, rapes, kidnappings, armed robberies, group attacks, major incidents of white collar crime and events involving famous people and politicians.
That still means that white people are more likely to be killed by other whites the same way blacks are more likely to be killed by other blacks.
Those crimes are distributed among a much larger population so it doesn’t reflect my personal risk. That’s why rates are important. They reflect my personal risk.
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I mean, i just have been through so much damn violence i expect it in the house on the street its just like ‘fight or flight’ always very close to the surface. I guess some people have to read stats or watch tv. And its not a phenotypic issue.
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Last night i was just like oh gee she has a knife, it doesnt even phase me, im sure my blood pressere went up a tick but…
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Da Jokah,
I can’t answer yes or no because I haven’t lived everywhere. Based on where I have lived I’d say the local news generally covered crimes in the proportions of which it was committed. With an emphasis on murders, rapes, kidnappings, armed robberies, group attacks, major incidents of white collar crime and events involving famous people and politicians.
You can answer. It doesn’t require you living everywhere to give an opinion. but it does require researching which you could do from home.
Those crimes are distributed among a much larger population so it doesn’t reflect my personal risk. That’s why rates are important. They reflect my personal risk.
And still, you are more likely to be the victim of a crime by person. Conversely, you are also just as likely to commit a crime against another white person. And the same intra-racial conclusion applies to me and my group.
I really don’t see why you want to avoid the fact that the instinct of violence resides in all people and that one group doesn’t have a “drive” for violence against another group for reasons you still haven’t fully disclosed.
SMH.
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Anyway Da Jokah,
I know you’re going to repeat yourself. So, I would like to ask you one thing. How would you SOLVE that issue?
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How would you SOLVE that issue?
He doesn’t want to. If he did he wouldn’t be coming to blogs such as this in order to defend ‘whites’. He needs someone or something to make himself feel superior. ‘Debating’ those he considers ‘inferior’ helps with this. If a person does not like something, they usually do not want anything to do with it or them, moreso than they have to. I sure as he!! don’t spend any time at Stormfront ‘debating’ these lunatics for example. Nope these loons are obsessed racist realist, there are perverse undertones also that I percieve as they seem to be especially obsessed with black men. Mock these fools don’t engage them you are just adding to their pleasure and false sense of superiority. Why do them a favour?
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Brothawolf
You can answer. It doesn’t require you living everywhere to give an opinion. but it does require researching which you could do from home.
I’m not aware of anyone collecting data on how many incidents are covered or how much time is spent.
And still, you are more likely to be the victim of a crime by [a white] person.
Those crimes are distributed among a much larger population so it doesn’t reflect my personal risk. That’s why rates are important. They reflect my personal risk.
I know you’re going to repeat yourself.
The facts haven’t changed.
I really don’t see why you want to avoid the fact that the instinct of violence resides in all people and that one group doesn’t have a “drive” for violence against another group for reasons you still haven’t fully disclosed.
I think criminal and violent tendencies vary enormously from person to person. With some people having a tremendous tendency to violence and others not. It seems unlikely that every population would have the exact same percentage of each.
So, I would like to ask you one thing. How would you SOLVE that issue?
I see no point in offering an answer no one here would accept. How would you solve it?
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@ Abagond: You should do a post on UCLA and it’s lack of diversity. They only want young black people there just for the athletics, they don’t care about young black people being educated. What about young black people excelling academically? You should do a post about institutions of higher learning investing in the education of young non white students.
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The joker has an easy time pointing out that some populations are more violent than others but cannot see that his own group has been the most violent in recorded history. Funny how it is okay to claim that certain things are part of human nature when it is necessary to take the blame off of one group but not okay when trying to force the blame on others. I also see no point in his offering an answer to a problem that does not exist. Especially when his ideas are born of hatred and un-Christianlike thinking.
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Da Jokah,
I’m not aware of anyone collecting data on how many incidents are covered or how much time is spent.
Of course you’re not…SMH
Those crimes are distributed among a much larger population so it doesn’t reflect my personal risk. That’s why rates are important. They reflect my personal risk.
Like I said, I knew you would repeat yourself. LOL
I think criminal and violent tendencies vary enormously from person to person. With some people having a tremendous tendency to violence and others not. It seems unlikely that every population would have the exact same percentage of each.
And yet, according to you, black people have a higher propensity of violence towards whites. And yet still, you haven’t explained why this is so probably because you don’t know.
I see no point in offering an answer no one here would accept. How would you solve it?
And yet still again, you see a point in coming to a blog that discusses white racism to bring up black-on-white crime stats and whatnot even though the blog was not established to your liking knowing full well that you will be cast down as a typical racist by those who hear your kind of reasoning all the time and came here to escape it.
But, you don’t see the point in offering solutions? Just continue repeating yourself like a parrot even though it’s more than obvious that your points will go nowhere because it’s been done before by others many times and each time it has been rejected. And you seem to think that repeating it ad nauseum will either come true or will convince others to listen to you. SMH
If you have any solutions, wouldn’t it make sense to disclose them regardless of what others think? What are you scared of, besides black people? Maybe you’ve conceded and are tired of arguing. You really have nothing new to bring to the table.
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The Best Man Holiday beat out Thor at the box office. Very cool, USA Today refers to it as “RACE THEMED” Race Themed, wtf, was does it have to be race themed. I think the plot in the film is quite universal and if it was white what would the movie reviewer refer to it as? Why is ”Race Themed” But, this is very telling about how white America is still not comfortable with the images of black Americans. Race themed indeed. Exhaling a big *SIGH*
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*why does it have to be race themed* ?
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“Sharina
““This bizarre practice of not labeling white people and labeling everyone else has got to go.””—I second that!”
_ _ _
And I third it!
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@mary burrell
LOVED Best Man Holiday, way better than the first. I think media critics can’t fathom a “Black movie” beating out Thor! Ha! But it did. So white media will forever make it about race when there isn’t any white people being a major character in the movie. Nothing new. If anyone wants a good romantic comedy with some EYE Candy mixed in there- HIGHLY RECOMMEND:-D * don’t forget to bring your Kleenex!
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@lifelearner: I enjoyed the first one, so if this surpasses the first one I must be in for a treat. Thanx for the heads up.
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Brothawolf
Why would I proffer explanations and solutions for a situation you’re in denial of? Even more, why would you ask if not to use my answers as a deflection?
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(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b108HG8LDSU)
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Da Jokah
Why would I proffer explanations and solutions for a situation you’re in denial of? Even more, why would you ask if not to use my answers as a deflection?
I asked you. That should show that I’m interested since YOU are the one who brings it up all the time.
I’ve never been in denial that it happens. Show me where I’ve either said or implied that I have. I just strongly disagree that it happens in a frequency you’re saying.
If you believe that I would use it as a deflection, then seriously, why even bother to continue recycling your point over and over again? It just makes you look like a complaining troll with a strange obsession for a certain kind of crime, and who really doesn’t care about white people as you’re trying to make yourself out to be.
That’s why you Da Jokah appear to us as a joke.
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Brothawolf
It just makes you look like a complaining troll with a strange obsession for a certain kind of crime,
At least I don’t cherry-pick crimes and historical events the way some on this blog do. I generally limit my concerns to things going on right now. And I can think of few things more relevant than murder and violent crime. I’m sorry if you see that as being a “complaining troll.”
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@ Da Jokah
1. History matters. It shaped the world we live in. So it is relevant. Except to people who want to deny that history.
2. You are not concerned with murder and violent crime. If you were, you would not make such a huge deal about black-on-white crime, which, even by your own numbers, leaves out 87% of violent crimes and 93% of murders. I think that counts as cherry picking.
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Da Jokah certainly “limits his concerns” in a very cherry-picking fashion.
It is difficult NOT to cherry pick sometimes (ie, we have to “pick our battles”) but at the same time, one cannot deny that one is cherry picking.
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abagond
1. History matters. It shaped the world we live in. So it is relevant. Except to people who want to deny that history.
Of course ‘history matters’. But your implication that I want to ‘deny history’ is a straw man. Your contention is that history is responsible for everything today while ignoring what people are doing today to cause their own problems. You want to blame it all on ‘history’ and use ‘history’ as evidence to scapegoat others.
2. You are not concerned with murder and violent crime. If you were, you would not make such a huge deal about black-on-white crime, which, even by your own numbers, leaves out 87% of violent crimes and 93% of murders. I think that counts as cherry picking.
You’d certainly expect most crime to be white on white in Mayberry. But does Mayberry have a crime problem? No. Because the crime rate in Mayberry is small. There may be more white on white crime but only because the country is 80% white. Like Mayberry, the US white on white crime is small. It’s also spread over a very large population. So the individual risk is small. That’s why rates matter. And you know they matter. If the situation were reversed you wouldn’t be trying to dismiss them.
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I’m looking for some input for a theory I’m working that I call “erotic blackface”. This is the term I use to describe my attraction to white chicks who act like straight hoodrats. My best friend(white guy) is similarlly attracted to black punk and metal chicks. Any input and/or variations would be greatly appreciated. thank you.
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@Matari
1. Are you male or female (always wanted to ask that and yes you are free to give me the v8 forehead smack if it was something obvious)?
2. Do you consider yourself asleep, half awake, or fully awake in the plight of white supremacy?
3. Do you think there is a particular type of black person that is more susceptible to white washing or a white frame of mind?
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1. Come now… keep up! lol I’m a BROTHER (from another planet).
2. I think I’m half awake. I often discover/see new faces/guises/effects pertaining to whiteness. White-supremacy’s layers are very deep. They’re like an onion, or the ripples in a still body of water caused when a pebble is tossed in. Each ripple (or layer) has a direct or indirect influence/consequence on the next layer (ripple).
Many white folks don’t like to hear how the EVILS known as CHATTEL SLAVERY, Black Codes, Jim Crow, Sundown Towns, Race Riots … memes impacts African Americans to this very day, but it does.
>>”Do you think there is a particular type of black person that is more susceptible to white washing or a white frame of mind?”<<
Yeah, the Clarence Thomas, B Obama type! Obvious contenders for the *acceptably black* poster boy award.
That said I think we're all under the influence of whiteness to various degrees. I think the more confused we are about our real African identity/cultures/history/unity the less we behave in constructive ways towards ourselves and one another.
We're not doing ourselves any favors by fully embracing this western lifestyle and value system while failing to reconnect with those AFRICAN traditions, philosophies, religions, rites of passage, knowledge and organization that was forcibly taken from our captured and chained ancestors.
The late law professor, Derrick Bell, in his Five Rules Of Racial Standing, talks about how some black people are given a SPECIAL SUPER-STANDING status among whites if/when they parrot the white line. Sadly, there's no shortage of those folks.
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@Matari
lol sorry.
“We’re not doing ourselves any favors by fully embracing this western lifestyle and value system while failing to reconnect with those AFRICAN traditions, philosophies, religions, rites of passage, knowledge and organization that was forcibly taken from our captured and chained ancestors.”—I agree. I have always looked at western civilization as a type of disease that gets in your system, but is hard to get out. Mainly because I take most of my issue with American education, but I have notice that western lifestyle tends to void a person of soul or any spiritual connect. If blacks did reconnect and embrace African traditions, philosophies, religions, rites of passage, knowledge and organization then I picture an unmovable force.
“Sadly, there’s no shortage of those folks.”—Unfortunately they never are, but I am curious to see what these type folks will do if and when the tides change.
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a white girl?
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define hoodrat
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Agabond, you should do a post about the Martin Bashir drama.
http://wonkette.com/534485/msnbcs-martin-bashir-wants-to-feed-sarah-palin-a-dookie
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Da Jokah,
At least I don’t cherry-pick crimes and historical events the way some on this blog do. I generally limit my concerns to things going on right now. And I can think of few things more relevant than murder and violent crime. I’m sorry if you see that as being a “complaining troll.”
Yeah, right. Almost 90% of your comments are based on only one subject, black-on-white crime, and nothing else. I don’t see that as cherry-picking. I see that as cherry-obsessed. LOL
As see you as a complaining troll because that’s all you do. Complain. Sometimes you even whine.
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@Brothawolf
” Sometimes you even whine.”—-There is most certainly no shortage of that. lol
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oh yeah know what else i wanted to say regarding me and matari on irr (latest) thread was i think cicero used it? a rhetorical device emphasizing a point by not mentioning it directly ie racial issues and throw in this sideways shit
close your eyes and think of alan keyes
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Brothawolf
Almost 90% of your comments are based on only one subject, black-on-white crime, and nothing else.
I’ve only recently discussed black-on-white crime after TrojanPam challenged me on another post. The discussion moved to the Open Thread where you’ve been an eager participant.
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George Zimmerman choked his blonde white girlfriend. That fool is going to kill somebody.
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@mary burrell
I am at a point where I wish this man would just disappear. He is a media whore. I hope this woman is smart and leaves him.
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Da Jokah,
I don’t see why you posted the same response in another thread as you did here, but like I said there, you’ve been on this kick ever since if what you said was true, like trying a drug once, and then you’re hooked. lol 🙂
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Watch black people, watch as you and other black people are under siege by these white racist! A soccer mom with a van, full of children are fired upon, over a traffic ticket. The cop wants her to pay the ticked, then and there.
The black women refuses and it goes out of control from there!
Watch the lack of safety for the children as these cops, fire right into the van, knowing full well, children are in the van!
Watch how these racist white cops, bash the windows out, with children in the car, knowing that flying glass could harm the children!
This black mother was under attack and was right to flee for her children’s lives!
These cops would have killed them all and claimed that one of the children, had a gun, later to find out it was an ice cream cone! °_°
http://www.wistv.com/story/23997841/caught-on-video-nm-trooper-fires-at-minivan-full-of-children
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@ mary
u mean kill somebody… again. smh. I heard about that, u know I;m not surprised I wonder what his supporters think now. U let him kill a white woman and they will be mad, his gf I don’t feel sorry for she should see what kind of person he is based on how he treated his previous gf and wife. But where are all the ppl who called trayvon a thug yeah the real thug is revealing himself now…
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Da Jokah,
Let me explain where I’m coming from. Black-on-white crime is used by racists who care more about what the color the suspect or perp was as opposed to the actual act to prove the innate savage nature of black people preying on “innocent” whites as it has been for years. White people thought there was a black crime wave going on after the emancipation back in the day, and (surprise, surprise) there are whites who still feel that way about blacks. Whether those crimes are racially motivated is up for debate.
White-on-black crime, however, reopens old wounds. It sends a signal that makes us suspect that the victim was targeted by a white person because of their race as racism has been a major factor in history (whether you like it or not). Whether that is true or not is also up for debate. Yet, from what we’ve seen with the murders of Oscar Grant, the vicious attack against Rodney King and the killing of Renisha McBride, it raises questions, because we see that race may have likely played a factor. We also wonder about the arrests, trials and punishments of blacks as opposed to whites. And many of us don’t trust or support the American “justice” system.
Yes, the reason why blacks see race in incidents like this is because we don’t see as much scrutiny when it comes to whites. And many black people still have deep wounds, not necessarily from the distant past, but from the present because microaggressions can leave heavy scars, and because many black people are aware of this nation’s racist past, it would be reasonable to see why we see the world in our own unique ways that do not parallel that of many whites.
Still, it’s morbidly absurd to say that any of us justify black-on-white crime. Newsflash! There are many, many black people who abhor violence against ANYONE. I do not like any violent crime no matter who the victim is. You, on the other hand, seem mostly concerned with black-on-white crime because, you contest that it happens more often than the reverse.
Even if that’s true, SO WHAT? All life is precious. Not just white lives. And seeing as how you won’t or can’t offer any solution to the topic you’re “concerned” with, you’re pretty much saying that you really don’t care about white lives as much you seem. I asked you for a solution to the issue. You said no.
So, what is there left to say?
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@Brothawolf
Since da joker pretends to be so smart you should not have to explain. Notice how he can’t (or won’t) get the simplest things? He is looking only for things to make you out to be who he already thinks you are.
Side note* I will be throwing this in da jokah virtual face until he mans up. Though I have no issue hsving him run from the conversation in toddler fashion.
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Sharina,
Exactly. I shouldn’t have to explain since he won’t even when asked. I asked him to give a definition on racism. He won’t give it. I asked him for solutions to his issue. He won’t give it either. So, it’s our fault he complains about something he pretends to know nothing about.
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@mstoogood4yall
The arguments they come up with were ridiculous then and frankly just about the same now. Instead of owning up to the fact that he is a psycho who needs help they are trying to deflect by saying it was all about race (rewinding back to trayvon situation). They refuse to acknowledge or address what he is doing now.
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I am not sure how many has heard about the Kendrick Johnson situation but I have kindly included a link.
(http://www.ebony.com/news-views/kendrick-johnson-tweets-from-possible-suspects-405#axzz2lCVCtGNd)
What I found telling in this article was this tweet from one of the suspects “”Black kills black, it’s gang, black kills white, it’s rarely seen in the news, white kills black, it’s a hate crime and the whole world hears.”
These morons are not getting charged with a hate crime but murder. Now he has just opened the door for them to try and charge him with a hate crime.
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@ sharina
Thanks for the link I hadn’t seen this I did see another article that said he was on the bus when him and that other male got into a fight after the other guy instigated it. And Kendrick was put in a police cruiser while the other male got to ride home with his parents. Yeah its a coverup makes sense as his father works for the fbi and we know what history they have. makes me sick, i’m glad the family hired private investigators and got a second autopsy i’m so glad they didn’t depend on this corrupt system and didn’t believe they were telling the truth. The way this male has his father in law enforcement reminds of gz and how his father was a judge and we all know that if they didn’t have their fathers in high places their arse would be convicted. But ok and other ppl that think they are immune to this take notice they cover for each other they don’t care the man in blue is a friend to his own self.
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@mstoogood4yall
I was so happy the parents wised up and went out of the system too. Who is going to believe in accidental death when your son is rolled up in a d*mn mat. Then those morons are all over the internet tweeting their life away. They are about as dumb as the female that hit someone with a car and tweeted about it. Then tried to close her account when a cop saw it. *smh
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Brothawolf
And you’ve been on the topic ever since lol.
So have you. And why is that? Rather than simply concede the obvious you argue against it. Your last comment to me was nothing but one long attempt to rationalize your prejudice that a small number of crimes against blacks are more important than a large number of crimes against whites. Can you not admit that’s an indefensible position?
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^^^^
Your last comment to me was nothing but one long attempt to rationalize your prejudice that a small number of crimes against blacks are more important than a large number of crimes against whites.
No, I dont agree with this Da Jokah – I have not seen Brothawolf say that crimes against blacks are MORE important than crimes against whites. Any crime is equally important regardless of the race of the person – dont you think?
Taking the stance that you have in investigating black on white crime and dismissing anything that doesnt fall within these parameters, it could be strongly argued that YOU are trying to say that crimes against whites are more important because in your opinion and from your ‘research’ they are more frequent. In turn, this demonstrates YOUR bias and prejudice.
I know this question will go unanswered but, I wonder if Da Jokah thinks black people have been/are more capable of violence than white people?
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omni
I have not seen Brothawolf say that crimes against blacks are MORE important than crimes against whites. Any crime is equally important regardless of the race of the person – dont you think?
Brothawolf dismissed the larger number of B-W crimes against whites while emphasizing the smaller number of W-B crimes against blacks. You should be asking him that question.
Taking the stance that you have in investigating black on white crime and dismissing anything that doesnt fall within these parameters,
So it’s not the fault of black criminals who commit violent interracial crimes against whites but it’s my fault for noticing it?
it could be strongly argued that YOU are trying to say that crimes against whites are more important because in your opinion and from your ‘research’ they are more frequent. In turn, this demonstrates YOUR bias and prejudice.
First, I’ve provided evidence that they are more frequent. Second, your attempt to dismiss it without contradictory evidence shows that you know it’s true and that you are the one who is biased and prejudiced. And, third, why should I ignore violent interracial crimes that target whites at over 50 times the reverse? If the situation were reversed, I doubt you’d dismiss it.
I know this question will go unanswered but, I wonder if Da Jokah thinks black people have been/are more capable of violence than white people?
I don’t know the answer to that question. I only know that black criminals are targeting whites at a disproportionate rate. Do you think that’s acceptable?
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@Omnipresent
Uh oh. Looks like he is attempting to change something you said into something it is not. LOL
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Omnipresent: Taking the stance that you have in investigating black on white crime and dismissing anything that doesnt fall within these parameters,
Da Jokah So it’s not the fault of black criminals who commit violent interracial crimes against whites but it’s my fault for noticing it?
Nope – My statement doesnt say that. I am sure you’re comprehension skills are not that bad.
Omnipresent: it could be strongly argued that YOU are trying to say that crimes against whites are more important because in your opinion and from your ‘research’ they are more frequent. In turn, this demonstrates YOUR bias and prejudice.
Da Jokah First, I’ve provided evidence that they are more frequent
Omnipresent: My statement doesnt refute or concur with your assertions – I am simply saying that because your ‘specific’ research focuses solely on white people being the victims of crime that this type of crime is clearly and obviously more important to you than other crimes – or do you enjoy spend an ridiculous amount of time on things that dont really interest you?
Da Jokah Second, your attempt to dismiss it without contradictory evidence shows that you know it’s true and that you are the one who is biased and prejudiced.
Omnipresent: You are clutching at straws
Da Jokah And, third, why should I ignore violent interracial crimes that target whites at over 50 times the reverse? If the situation were reversed, I doubt you’d dismiss it.
Omnipresent: Mate, from this comment I see you have made giant, ill informed leaps. This demonstrates to me that all that you assert on here should be taken with a HUGE pinch of salt. You know not what you are talking about.
Omnipresent I know this question will go unanswered but, I wonder if Da Jokah thinks black people have been/are more capable of violence than white people?
Da Jokah: I don’t know the answer to that question. I only know that black criminals are targeting whites at a disproportionate rate. Do you think that’s acceptable?
I think that it is unacceptable for anyone to commit a violent act against another person – I dont think the race of the perp or the victim should matter when we think about why it is important to stop crime.
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Sharina said:
@Omnipresent – Uh oh. Looks like he is attempting to change something you said into something it is not. LOL
Glad you recognise it – so does he i’m sure. At the very least it is a stupid thing to do and at best dishonest.
You cant trust commenters who do this
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omni
Your last comment was nothing but unsupported allegations and insults with absolutely no evidence or rational.
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omni
I am simply saying that because your ‘specific’ research focuses solely on white people being the victims of crime that this type of crime is clearly and obviously more important to you than other crimes – or do you enjoy spend an ridiculous amount of time on things that dont really interest you?
Interesting that I’ve never heard you question the motives of abagond or his readers for focusing solely on topic which portray others as victims of white crime Clearly and obviously you have a preference for portraying whites negatively but bristle at the converse.
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@ Da Jokah
You do not know that. Your own numbers show that blacks are victimized by black criminals at 5.1 times the rate whites are. How, then, are black criminals “targeting whites at a disproportionate rate”? Unless, of course, you mean at a disproportionately LOW rate.
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Oh no pot didn’t just call kettle black. Projection is a MF.
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Jokah said: omni
Your last comment was nothing but unsupported allegations and insults with absolutely no evidence or rational.
Omnipresent said: I could say ‘pot’, ‘kettle’ and ‘black’ in regards to the responses you make to some of the commenters on here….
Jokah said: Interesting that I’ve never heard you question the motives of abagond or his readers for focusing solely on topic which portray others as victims of white crime .
You’ve read all my posts? I’m flattered but bemused. I dont often post on here either so the pickings must be slim to meagre. I do question readers but, at times, you seem to lack comprehension so maybe you missed it!
From what I have seen on here, Abagond, – (and no, I havent raked through all his past posts), writes about things that interest him and backs it up with facts, just like your good self!!!!
Clearly and obviously you have a preference for portraying whites negatively but bristle at the converse
How would this benefit me? – you presume too much. Once again, clutching at straws.
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Sharina:
Oh no pot didn’t just call kettle black.
whats that they say about minds thinking alike? 😉
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@Omnipresent
“I could say ‘pot’, ‘kettle’ and ‘black’ in regards to the responses you make to some of the commenters on here.”—-LOL
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omni
You’ve read all my posts? I’m flattered but bemused. I dont often post on here either so the pickings must be slim to meagre. I do question readers but, at times, you seem to lack comprehension so maybe you missed it!
I’d be happy to read the post where you criticized others for what you claim I did. Where can I find it?
+
abagond
You do not know that. Your own numbers show that blacks are victimized by black criminals at 5.1 times the rate whites are. How, then, are black criminals “targeting whites at a disproportionate rate”? Unless, of course, you mean at a disproportionately LOW rate.
I do know that because I’m numerate. Your response doesn’t refute my claim. There’s a difference between targeting others and being victimized oneself. Both claims can be true because the populations are not the same size.
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@da jokah where are you from?
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ooh know what else i want to say, it is something that got chopped by abagond it was a cogent thought in a string of bullshit, and i tried it out on my old lady it did not fly it was prolly like soon before our last domestic, uh… that perhaps the slave trade to the americas/carribean was an undeclared war, and well it was posited that some type of similar technology parity was responsible for the appelation ‘war’; however, my position it would be ‘greek city-state’ style, then.
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moddied, will i pass the imperial censor
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For lack of better words…..”huh?”
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Mack Lyons
Suppose you have two groups, Group A has 100 people and Group B has 10 people. Group B gives cookies to 10 members of Group A and 5 members of Group B. Group B was twice as likely to give someone in Group A a cookie. But someone in Group B was still 5 times more likely to get a cookie.
Therefore, it’s possible for Group B to target Group A at a higher rate (black on white crime) and still be victimized at a higher rate (black on black crime).
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@ Da Jokah
The following example is roughly based on your numbers:
Suppose you go to a school of 1000 students, 800 are white (like you) and 130 black. There are 9 bullies: 6 are white, 3 are black.
You are beat up four times: three times by whites, once by blacks.
You are now here complaining that the black bullies are the main problem at your school.
Why?
Because they beat up 10 white kids and 8 black kids. That “proves” they are out to get whites, that they are “targeting whites at a disproportionate rate”.
Meanwhile the white bullies have beat up 35 white kids and 1 black kid.
And yet you say you are not cherry picking, that your true concern is violence at your school.
That is how you and many white people sound to me. They call it “rational fear”. To me it sounds like “racist paranoia”.
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Da Jokah,
So have you. And why is that? Rather than simply concede the obvious you argue against it. Your last comment to me was nothing but one long attempt to rationalize your prejudice that a small number of crimes against blacks are more important than a large number of crimes against whites. Can you not admit that’s an indefensible position?
I know what’s obvious, Jokah, even more so than you want to admit. It’s more than obvious you have racial paranoia against black people for reasons that actually don’t pan out.
You say how I think white-on-black crime are more important than black-on-white. That’s a load of rubbish. I NEVER said NOR implied that. (Show me where I’ve said that or stop putting words into my keyboard.) That’s what you CHOSE to see in my responses to justify YOUR prejudices and erroneous rationalizations to fear black people. You’re just grasping for straws now.
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Abagond
Suppose instead I live in Mayberry with 100,000 vegans and one family of cannibals. There are 2 murders per week – 1 person is killed by one of the 100,000 thousand vegans and 1 person is killed by the family of cannibals. There’s an equal chance of someone being killed either by a vegan or by a cannibal. But any single cannibal poses a greater individual risk to me than any single vegan. Not to mention the cannibals are targeting the vegans whereas the vegans aren’t.
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Da Jokah,
I’ve noticed that in a lot of your comments have been trying to shift accusations onto others like me, Abagond, Sharina, and whoever else. You seem to have a problem with accountability. Man up, and take some. lol
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@ Da Jokah
You, of course, realize that your example is hopelessly flawed, I presume?
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Da Jokah,
1. What’s with the fixation with Mayberry?
2. Your cannibal and vegan analogy makes no sense. I suspect it’s an analogy to two other groups, but I’m not going to make assumptions. If they are true, that’s still nonsensical.
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King,
He’s getting so desperate his reasons no longer make sense. He is a fighter though lol.
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Brothawolf
That’s a load of rubbish. I NEVER said NOR implied that. (Show me where I’ve said that or stop putting words into my keyboard.)
https://abagond.wordpress.com/open-thread/#comment-202340
You spent the first paragraph of that response dismissing my concern by saying “Black-on-white crime is used by racists who care more about what the color the suspect or perp was as opposed to the actual act .” Then, you spent the second paragraph justifying your concern by saying “White-on-black crime, however, reopens old wounds.”
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So I see Brothawolf… so I see.
Carry on, my good Wolf!
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king
how is it flawed?
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A cannibal is, by definition, a person who must kill other people in order to be a cannibal. All cannibals are guilty of cannibalism which necessitates murder. That is a rather monolithic perception of a “race” of people.
Apples/Oranges.
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king
A cannibal is, by definition, a person who must kill other people in order to be a cannibal.
Not necessarily. Do you kill all your food yourself? See, when a mommy cannibal and a daddy cannibal love each other very much they make little baby cannibals. And the daddy cannibal is the one who brings home the bacon. Well, maybe not ‘bacon’ but…
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Yes, but it’s still a flawed example.
It depends on melanin-related collective responsibility.
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Jokah said:
Omnipresent said: You’ve read all my posts? I’m flattered but bemused. I dont often post on here either so the pickings must be slim to meagre. I do question readers but, at times, you seem to lack comprehension so maybe you missed it!
I’d be happy to read the post where you criticized others for what you claim I did. Where can I find it?
I said questioned but there you go.
Just to keep this in context, this is the actual comment that you made that I referred to:
Jokah Interesting that I’ve never heard you question the motives of abagond or his readers for focusing solely on topic which portray others as victims of white crime Clearly and obviously you have a preference for portraying whites negatively but bristle at the converse.
Now you have changed things and want evidence of me criticising people – I dont think I am being pedantic when I point out the questioning and criticising are not exactly the same thing.
You make it sound like you are being unfairly interrogated and singled out but it is YOU who is presenting statistics in this way to represent black on white crime being more frequent – people are refuting the way you are framing this with counter responses which you seem unable to refute without resorting to supposition and second guessing about what their true agenda is.
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Da Jokah,
You spent the first paragraph of that response dismissing my concern by saying “Black-on-white crime is used by racists who care more about what the color the suspect or perp was as opposed to the actual act .” Then, you spent the second paragraph justifying your concern by saying “White-on-black crime, however, reopens old wounds.”
How in the world does that rationalize crimes against blacks versus crimes against whites?? I also said the following:
Still, it’s morbidly absurd to say that any of us justify black-on-white crime. Newsflash! There are many, many black people who abhor violence against ANYONE. I do not like any violent crime no matter who the victim is. You, on the other hand, seem mostly concerned with black-on-white crime because, you contest that it happens more often than the reverse.
Even if that’s true, SO WHAT? All life is precious. Not just white lives.
Once again, you’re reading what you WANT to read to justify your black-on-white crime complaining campaign. I didn’t say nor implied that white-on-black…W-on-B crimes were more significant than B-on-W crimes. What I have done, and this may be hard for you to grasp, is tell you the point of a view from an individual black man how I and other blacks see the reactions from interracial crime. It was not a justification. YOU interpreted it as a justification. And as such, that was the only segment of the comment you CHOSE to rehash to fit your case of black-ophobia.
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@ Kiwi
This is getting funnier by the minute. LOL
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king
That is a rather monolithic perception of a “race” of people.
It depends on melanin-related collective responsibility.
I’m taking those to be two attempts at the same point. It’s monolithic to the extent one is unable to distinguish between individuals, strangers, etc. But it’s not “melanin-related collective responsibility.” The concern isn’t melanin but violent crime and the intent isn’t to punish someone regardless of personal responsibility. The concern is to minimize risk through personal choices and associations one has every right to make. For example, most families are very selective about who they allow around their children. But the intent isn’t punitive and it certainly doesn’t harm those that are denied access to the children. The parents have every right to make those personal choices.
+
Omni, I called your bluff and you couldn’t back it up.
Brothawolf, I read your comment and know what it says.
I didn’t expect either of you to admit it and I don’t need you to.
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Actually da jokah, she has been calling your bluff for sometime and you have been doing the dance of avoidance for sometime. You on several occasions have been trying to direct things at them rather than simply addressing them yourself. So again we can all conclude that the pot loves to call the kettle black but pot seem to have some internalized issues.
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Jokah: Omni, I called your bluff and you couldn’t back it up.
Sh1t – is that the best you can do lol I beat you so na na na na na
My ‘questions’ to you and whether or not I ‘question’ or ‘criticise’ other commenters to YOUR satisfaction have little or nothing to do with each other but, because you were rapidly losing ground, you began to ‘reach’ desperately and try to detract from the original conversation.
I know that I value ALL human life. I am not foolish enough to think that crime stays isolated or has a definitive face or colour. This unfortunately may be your downfall.
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Sharina
I thought Jokah and I were discussing things man to man but that last little comment was immature – something a little b0y would do.
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@Omnipresent
He will discuss things man to man in the event he believes he has the head up. Once he is caught then the little boy comes out and cries wolf.
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@ Da Jokah
1. Tell me if I have this right: in my example (based on your numbers) you would avoid all 130 black students because of two bullies, even though you were beat up more times by whites?
2. Suppose in that example you were black. What would you do then? Avoid all blacks and just stick with whites?
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@ Da Jokah
What if I wrote a blog about cannibalism? I am pretty sure I would get cannibal commenters who would:
– call me “anti-cannibal”;
– tell me I am “cherry picking” by always talking about cannibals.
– deflect my threads by talking about Mao or vegan crime.
– tell me that vegans are worse since they have a higher murder rate, as if I were writing about murder, not cannibalism, as if the part where they eat human flesh did not matter or something.
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@Abagond
^^^^LOL. Why even bother? At this point, it’s willful ignorance.
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Abagond
1. That’s not a theoretical question. I grew up in a city that was mostly black and went to a school whose students mostly came from housing projects. Avoiding overtly racist blacks isn’t a difficult choice to make.
2. I used to be very familiar with black society for the reasons mentioned. So I had a pretty good eye for spotting troublemakers and knowing which places to avoid. I imagine you do, too. The difference is blacks won’t normally attack you for being black. So you would be at much less risk than someone of another race. Which brings us to a major difference between B-B crime and B-W crime. A lot of the B-W is targeted whereas a lot of the B-B crime is thugs vs thugs. As long as you’re not a thug and avoid certain people and places your risks will be much lower than the generic B-B crime rate would suggest. Still, many blacks do try to buy their way out of high crime areas.
What if I wrote a blog about cannibalism? I am pretty sure I would get cannibal commenters who would:
I doubt it.
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@Kiwi
“I can imagine DJ snickering at us”—LOL. I think he would like us to believe that he is and if he manages to get a laugh in here and there..he still has no idea how much a laugh we have been getting this whole time.
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Da Jokah
Brothawolf, I read your comment and know what it says.
I didn’t expect either of you to admit it and I don’t need you to.
LOL This is rich. If you know what it says, then you wouldn’t have accused me of playing crime favorites. I will not admit what you WANT to believe I said. I know what I said and what I mean, sir.
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Is it me or are Jokah’s responses getting lamer and lamer?
I used to be very familiar with black society for the reasons mentioned. So I had a pretty good eye for spotting troublemakers and knowing which places to avoid. I imagine you do, too. The difference is blacks won’t normally attack you for being black. So you would be at much less risk than someone of another race. Which brings us to a major difference between B-B crime and B-W crime. A lot of the B-W is targeted whereas a lot of the B-B crime is thugs vs thugs. As long as you’re not a thug and avoid certain people and places your risks will be much lower than the generic B-B crime rate would suggest. Still, many blacks do try to buy their way out of high crime areas.
In other words, just be looking at blacks, you can spot the troublemakers because you knew about black society more than say…black people. Hence, you know why blacks attack other blacks and white people, and where to avoid for one’s safety, presumably areas with high black crime rates.
And you say you’re not racist LMAO!! 🙂
Hey everyone! Da Jokah’s got a Ph. D in black criminalogy. He’s here to school us black folks into how vicious black people are. What a riot! LOL
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http://www.miamiherald.com/2013/11/21/3769823/in-miami-gardens-store-video-catches.html
Man gets arrested 62 times for trespassing. Only that the location he trespasses is his employers business location, where he is legally supposed to be while working.
Be sure the check out the videos. It made me very sad 😦
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Brothawolf:
Is it me or are Jokah’s responses getting lamer and lamer?
I agree – sort of degenerated in to rubbishness. This mystical 3rd eye nonsense i.e. the ‘I know this, that and the other about you and your kind’ that he is peddling fits with all that he is yapping on about re crime too.
Its that ‘hypersensitivity’ and ‘paranoia’ that keeps him on his toes.
That aint no way to live man.
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@ Da Jokah
Then allow me to disabuse you of that notion.
Monolithic racial perception speaks to a generalization or characterization that the people of a “race” are essentially the same.
Melanin-related collective responsibility means that members of the race share responsible for the actions and infractions of all other people having approximately the same amount of melanin.
If that were true we would looking across color lines and developing defensive profiles based on criminal behavioral patterns rather than racial statistics.
Again, this is clearly not true. Otherwise your response to crime would be based on criminals, and not color.
But the choices are either right or wrong depending on what they are based on. If you are basing the choice on someones behavior or the harmful environment which surrounds them, then that is one thing. If you base the decision solely on the amount of melanin contained in the outer dermal layers of their skin, then that is another.
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king
I didn’t say you couldn’t draw distinctions between “Monolithic racial perception” and “Melanin-related collective responsibility” but I’m pretty sure you were using both to make essentially the same point.
If that were true we would looking across color lines and developing defensive profiles based on criminal behavioral patterns rather than racial statistics.
The red, black and yellow striped coral snake is poisonous. The scarlet king snake looks similar but can be distinguished by the order in which it’s stripes appear. I can distinguish them but why bother? If I avoid both then I don’t have to worry about it.
Again, this is clearly not true. Otherwise your response to crime would be based on criminals, and not color.
You say my response should be based on whether an individual is likely to commit a crime while Brothawolf mocks the idea that one can even distinguish between individuals likely to commit crime. It can’t be both so which is it? And, again, I can avoid the whole issue by simply avoiding the demographic.
There are people on this blog who’ve said they don’t want whites around and even advocated killing them. I didn’t see much condemnation. So how is it that you now say I should distinguish between such obviously malicious individuals and yourselves? Would you ostracize those overtly racist blacks or would you overlook it? And if you overlook it then why would you expect me to distinguish let alone associate with you?
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@ Abagond,
Brillant “bully” analogy. It lays bare the racist idiocy in the reasoning used by folks like Da Jokah.
What’s striking is the repition of the argument and the bizzare insistence that we “accept” his wrong headed interpretation of the stats rather than believing our own lying eyes.
For example, if you look at single offender crimes you quickly see that whites commit many more crimes than blacks and that most of the victims are white. The latter point, the intra-racial nature of crime, is true of all races. Also, iirc, whites victimized blacks at a slighty higher percentage than blacks victimized white (15.9% vs. 15.4%).
That somebody could then try and say that since there were more B-W victims than W-B victims, therefore blacks were “targetting” whites blah, blah is absurd. There were a larger number of B-W victims because there were many more white victims (who were mostly victimized by other whites) period. To base such a false premise(s) off of an obvious, and poor, manipulation of data is pathetic.
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Funny quote of the day.
“And if you overlook it then why would you expect me to distinguish let alone associate with you.”
I truly hope da jokah (who overlooks racist comments from whites) realizes the complete hypocrisy in this.
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@ Everyone
As the old saying goes…one must laugh to keep from crying. And at this point I must cosign with lifelearner. Complete willful ignorance is all that it is.
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Hello, I just wanted to say hello. I read this forum for quite some time and finally I registered.
PS. Sorry for my English is not perfect yet …
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Hey and welcome, Whastyacatte.
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Hello Whastyarcatte. You don’t have to worry about having perfect English.
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Da Jokah
LMAO You’re killing me.
You say my response should be based on whether an individual is likely to commit a crime while Brothawolf mocks the idea that one can even distinguish between individuals likely to commit crime. It can’t be both so which is it? And, again, I can avoid the whole issue by simply avoiding the demographic.
Newsflash, Captain Obvious. King and I are TWO DIFFERENT PEOPLE. We don’t have a hive mind like you apparently think we do.
Plus, King said that if you were truly concerned about crime, “…We would looking across color lines and developing defensive profiles based on criminal behavioral patterns rather than racial statistics.” You primarily care about the color of the criminal MORE than so than what causes it. This is what makes your reasoning laughable and predictable.
I mocked you trying to make yourself out to be an expert on black people, especially black crime so much so that you say that by looking at them, you can tell who’s more likely to commit crime.
You’re trying to turn prejudice into a scientific method, and that is why no one here takes you seriously.
There are people on this blog who’ve said they don’t want whites around and even advocated killing them. I didn’t see much condemnation. So how is it that you now say I should distinguish between such obviously malicious individuals and yourselves? Would you ostracize those overtly racist blacks or would you overlook it? And if you overlook it then why would you expect me to distinguish let alone associate with you?
Let me see those comments you’re referring to. Then I’ll humor you with a response. If not, I’ll still respond accordingly.
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Second post of same article about cops in Miami Gardens. http://www.miamiherald.com/2013/11/21/v-fullstory/3769823/in-miami-gardens-store-video-catches.html
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@Anne
Thanks for the link.
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@BrothaWolf
@Da Jokah has been out of cards since, I undressed him months ago.
And we are not scared to take the conversation over to StormFront Ni**erMania, or American Renaissance, but if we are respectful & hit you with WHITE scholarship, you will just remove the posts, because the truth hits heavy.
In other news,
http://breakingbrown.com/2013/11/store-owner-installs-camera-to-protect-black-customers-from-police-catches-police-terrorizing-area-video/
Miami store owner HAD TO INSTALL CAMERAS IN HIS SHOP TO PROTECT HIS BLACK EMPLOYEE FROM RELENTLESS POLICE HARASSMENT.
Stop & Frisk is IN MIAMI, and they are using a BLACK FACE (STRAWMAN) TO ENFORCE IT.
So they do not look racist.
Stop looking at the KINGS on the chessboard, look at the KingMakers.
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@ Joker
Why, indeed. As a long-lived troll, that’s simply not in his job description.
Our friend Joker simply wants Abagond to snap under the weight of those FBI crime stats, pull a Don Lemon and start validating all of Joker’s deeply held beliefs about blacks while chastising…no…demonizing his fellow blacks – sort of like what Elizabeth Wright was doing before she passed on. He wants Abagond to start speaking highly of white folks again, and more to the point, speak highly of the Joker himself.
Disclaimer: The opinions and viewpoints offered by commentators do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of the blog or blog owner.
On the other hand, I’ve stumbled upon quite a few “pro-white” blogs and forums where a few select commentators advocated a return to segregation and bombing/gassing/nuking majority black cities and neighborhoods. No one else gave them shit about those comments, either.
Just say you don’t want to associate with blacks, period. Honestly, I keep forgetting why you even bother hanging around this place…
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@ Adonis
Those places just silence black (or suspiciously black) voices, period. Unless they cosign with white thought, but even then it’s a walk on eggshells.
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@adonis you go to stormfront?
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@V8Driver
Keep your friends close & your enemies closer!
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@Adonis, why go to a website like that? You should leave the devil to play with himself. Just my opinion.
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seriously.
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Going to a website like Stormfront is like strolling into the lions’ den wearing clothes made out of steak and pork chops and having on lotion made out of barbecue sauce. lol
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florida smh
http://bossip.com/871005/racial-profiling-or-nah-man-stopped-by-miami-cops-258-times-outside-store-where-he-worked-videos/
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Adonis,
As you can see, even when he’s been pwned, Da Jokah continues to humor us with his trolling. Maybe that’s why he’s called ‘Da Jokah’. He has to be joking if he’s trying to use vegans and cannibals as good examples.
On the other hand, he may actually think we’re as stupid as he thinks we are. You know, because we’re black. And so, he thinks repeating and recycling his statements will somehow stick and we – like Mack said – accept his racism as the truth so he will dance with glee feeling like he won and is superior to us.
White supremacy never works without the belittlement and/or destruction of nonwhites. Only when that happens will white racists feel good about themselves for being white.
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@ abagond have you considered reviewing any of Dambisa Moyo’s books?
She has some really interesting thoughts about the positive role that China is playing in African development. She compares, for example, the way that Chinese investment has stimulated growth in Zambia with the ‘deadening’ effect of Western aid on the Nigerian economy.
Not my place to suggest posts but after reading ‘Dead Aid’ I thought many of her ideas link with the themes you’ve covered on this blog.
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An excerpt from an article that if true, would explain a lot
He explained that the companies we work for had invested millions into the building of privately owned prisons and that our positions of influence in the music industry would actually impact the profitability of these investments. I remember many of us in the group immediately looking at each other in confusion. At the time, I didn’t know what a private prison was but I wasn’t the only one. Sure enough, someone asked what these prisons were and what any of this had to do with us. We were told that these prisons were built by privately owned companies who received funding from the government based on the number of inmates. The more inmates, the more money the government would pay these prisons. It was also made clear to us that since these prisons are privately owned, as they become publicly traded, we’d be able to buy shares. Most of us were taken back by this. Again, a couple of people asked what this had to do with us. At this point, my industry colleague who had first opened the meeting took the floor again and answered our questions. He told us that since our employers had become silent investors in this prison business, it was now in their interest to make sure that these prisons remained filled. Our job would be to help make this happen by marketing music which promotes criminal behavior, rap being the music of choice.
http://dontpaniconline.com/magazine/music/the-secret-meeting-that-changed-rap-music-and-destroyed-a-generation
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@ Brothawolf
What??? …So we aren’t a hive mind anymore???
@ Da Jokah
Sorry, I had a really busy week at work, and was unable to respond until now.
I’m making a decision not to argue this point any further. It was a minor point and not worth distracting from the real issues.
Think about what you’re saying… and how stupid it really is. What you’re saying is that you can tell two snakes apart but even so, you will run in the opposite direction at top speed, even if encounter the snake that you claim to know is not poisonous! Either you can tell them apart, or you can’t.. which it it?
Secondly, your two snakes are almost identical. But is that really the case with people? Does the street gang member really look JUST LIKE Ben Carson or Kenneth Frazier? Are they identical, all but for a certain ordering of striping, or do they actually look and act quite different? You see, this is the folly of mindlessly repeating these half-baked ideas that you never seem to quite think all the way through.
And thirdly, your simpleton’s analogy is factually flawed since in reality you would be dealing with two snake population who BOTH have venomous and non-venemous sub-populations (criminals) within them. One snake population has a higher percentage of venomous members, the other snake population is much larger and has a lower percentage but more overall venomous snakes in total.
So here are some workbook questions to help you to understand the ineptitude of your own illogical thinking.
1) In the case described above, would the answer be to only avoid the smaller snake population with the higher percentage?
2) If so, how would you deal with the larger overall total of venomous snakes in the larger snake population?
3) If you truly have a viable way of singling out only the venomous snakes from the larger snake population, then why can’t that same method be used with the smaller higher-percentage snake population as well, instead of complete avoidance?
Let me save you some time, there is no logical way to explain this inconsistency. But please, feel free to waste your time trying if you please.
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Either Da Jokah’s been busy himself, or he’s run out of more ridiculous babble.
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Run out of ridiculous babble? Ha!
He’ll be back.
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“sigh” -_-
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I hate to say it, but it’s true. Da Jokah will return repeating himself like a broken record.
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In the meantime, let’s enjoy this temporary “peace”.
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By the way, King…
What??? …So we aren’t a hive mind anymore???
Shocking. Ain’t it?
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^ Don’t know ’bout you Wolf, but I’m still tryna get my buzz on!
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http://abclocal.go.com/wpvi/story?section=news/local&id=9340053
“Horse pulling Amish buggy killed in Lancaster County, Pa. drive-by shooting”
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I have something gnawing at me.
It seems the fascination of black crime by the news media is fully operational, but I think what I’m going to show ya’ll will take it to new heights. I want you to check out the first link to the article first and read the response from the newspaper editorr:
http://maynardije.org/richardprince/worst-worst-are-all-black-men
http://www.timesfreepress.com/news/2013/nov/24/were-mugshots-the-worst-decision/
Your thoughts please…
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is it cool to say happy thanksgiving everyone? if so, please enjoy,
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I don’t know if anyone’s heard about it, but one of the judges on Holland’s Got Talent, Gordon Heuckeroth, humiliated a contestant on stage for being Chinese and there’s a petition to get the broadcaster RTL to apologise, instead of brushing it all off as `just a joke’. Apparently, there has been next to no coverage in the Netherlands because `that’s the way Dutch joke, if you don’t like it get out our country.’ I’ve found all too often that a lot of racism directed to East Asians is accepted and brushed off as nothing, whereas if something similar were said to other oppressed and marginalised groups, there would be an uproar. It’s about time we were seen as humans with feelings that are worth considering instead of robotic model minorities that it’s okay to abuse. Now is the opportunity for something to change.
Here is the link to the petition, where you can also watch the video. The female judge, Chantal Janzen, also says some problematic things, but Heuckeroth is the worst.
http://www.change.org/petitions/rtl-apologize-for-gordon-heuckeroth-s-racist-remarks-at-chinese-singer-xiao-wang
There are only a few hundred more signatures needed.
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@Iris,
Thanks for sharing that. That is just so totally disgusting. ;P
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@ abagond did you reply to my comment on the Christopher Lane thread? I received a notification that you had and it seems to have disappeared.
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I was reading the comments on the knockout games post and someone (I can’t remember who) tried to blame rap music. This got me thinking, why is rap the only music where the lyrics are taken at face value?
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Joel Pennington:
I was reading the comments on the knockout games post and someone (I can’t remember who) tried to blame rap music. This got me thinking, why is rap the only music where the lyrics are taken at face value?
I posted something upthread The secret meeting that changed rap music and destroyed a generation – I urge people to read it.
http://dontpaniconline.com/magazine/music/the-secret-meeting-that-changed-rap-music-and-destroyed-a-generation
Here is an excerpt from the article
He explained that the companies we work for had invested millions into the building of privately owned prisons and that our positions of influence in the music industry would actually impact the profitability of these investments. I remember many of us in the group immediately looking at each other in confusion. At the time, I didn’t know what a private prison was but I wasn’t the only one. Sure enough, someone asked what these prisons were and what any of this had to do with us. We were told that these prisons were built by privately owned companies who received funding from the government based on the number of inmates. The more inmates, the more money the government would pay these prisons. It was also made clear to us that since these prisons are privately owned, as they become publicly traded, we’d be able to buy shares. Most of us were taken back by this. Again, a couple of people asked what this had to do with us. At this point, my industry colleague who had first opened the meeting took the floor again and answered our questions. He told us that since our employers had become silent investors in this prison business, it was now in their interest to make sure that these prisons remained filled. Our job would be to help make this happen by marketing music which promotes criminal behavior, rap being the music of choice.
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@ Peanut
I put up my Christmas tree too!
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@Omnipresent
thank you for posting that. I have always questioned the music aspect for a few reasons, but the biggest is my two black friends who are hardcore rockers. 1 can pass for white. the other can not, but both listen to some hardcore rock music and both are extremely violent. I already know the answer but if music is a possible cause then why are people not being harder on rock music.
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@ omnipresent
I read that article last year it was crazy but I believe it to be true.
as for rock music they won’t focus on that unless it’s a white child killing people and they happened to listen to rock like they tried to blame Marilyn manson music when the columbine shooting happened. They blame rap because they look at it as “black” music and black “culture”. They look at it as blacks are making that music it must be a reflection on them as a people, with rock they don’t want to criticize that too much because they don’t want ppl thinking it is a reflection of white people. Plus if they did criticize rock I know they’d try to flip it to blame blacks like omg but rock was kinda made by black people so they are still to blame for violent music and influencing behavior.
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mstoogood4yall
I like when music tells a story – I wish that most of the musicians and artist out there would stick to that.
In the past when Rock musicians go off the rails, it is celebrated, they are known as hellraisers, ‘lads’.
I dont know this group and, I dont listen to the news much but this caught my attention when I happened to hear it the other day – F’in sick
(http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2513820/Ian-Watkins-Lostprophets-singer-pleads-GUILTY-attempted-rape-baby.html)
No-one can blame any one but the individual here. The media certainly cannot say he was influenced by anything other than his depraved mind.
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@mstoogood4yall
“as for rock music they won’t focus on that unless it’s a white child killing people”—I don’t think they would focus on it then.
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@ omnipresent
wow wtf, that guy is so disgusting ugh I can’t. The dumb mothers participated in it is beyond sick who the he11 can do that to their own child smh. I see he trying to blame drugs, bs.
@ sharina
yea u probably right but they will blame everything under the sun to act like it isn’t the white persons fault, oh it was the music, the drugs, mental illness, the friend, they bad a bad day never really saying it was all this person and them wanting to do it and that person just being evil.
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typo I meant they had a bad day
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@Omnipresent
I don’t buy that article for a minute. It reads like “The William Lynch letter”, The majority consumer of gangsta rap is white teenage males, so why isn’t the prisons filled up with that demographic? I mean if the people listening to the music will become more criminal in their activities.
It’s snowing on Abagond!!! Tis the season 😀 I’m actually going to complete my reading goal this year, I’m on book 26, goal is to read 30 in 2013.
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@ Dave
I had to cook thanksgiving last minute. It was nice but completely unexpected.
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@ dave thought I’d bring the discussion re Obama here. It’s off topic on the knockout thread.
Watch this and then try and tell me that Obama needs a teleprompter:
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-QzPBT1Wvl8)
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@ dave i have a short comment in moderation – not sure why it went there. In any event, Obama is a very gifted public speaker. Even those on the right, like yourself, should acknowledge that.
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@sharina oh that’s cool. I always enjoy it more when I cook. How many people?
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@wordynerdygirl.. I voted for him in 08 not in 12. Probably for what you said. Authoritarianism seem to have continued and even expanded under Obama. I wasn’t a Bush supporter because he wasn’t a true conservative. How can you be when you are giving all of our money to warmongers and special interest. There is not much left to conserve now, and Obama continued that as well. Maybe he didn’t give as much to oil companies or bomb makers, but he gave it to special interests just the same.
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@ dave that’s interesting. What precisely do you mean by authoritarianism? Do you mean Obamacare?
BTW I agree some elements of Obama’s presidency have been a bit disappointing. But with an out of control Congress it’s amazing that he’s achieved what he has.
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@ dave I guess what I’m trying to say is that healthcare is not a sectional interest. It’s a universal human right.
It should reassure you somewhat to know that we have had universal healthcare in Australia since 1975. The sky hasn’t fallen – in fact:
– Australians live 81.5 years on average. Americans can expect to live to 78.
– Our public debt is only 26.9% of GDP. Yours is roughly 73% of GDP. This is despite the fact that we have more social safety nets (e.g. allowances for single mothers, equality measures, healthcare etc) than the US.
What’s not to like?
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@ dave sorry for the third comment in a row but I do completely agree with your comment re: warmongering.
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Constitutional free zones, Free speech zones, the drone program and the possibility of using it domestically, Not allowing any protesters within 50 yards of any secret service agent and that includes peaceful ones, NDAA (takes away your right to a speedy trial or phone call or lawyer basically pooops on the constitution) NDAA is also called indefinite detention they could call you a terrorist and throw away the key without trial, Firing Generals and top brass military based on their religious beliefs (So much for freedom of religion), Heavy push for gun control and even lying to push that agenda, Heavy expansion of the NSA and spying on American citizens uses FISA courts(which were set up for foreign spies), Using the press as a weapon and threatening and maybe even killing reporters that don’t agree with them, overly taxing those who don’t agree, Huge expansion of Homeland security department and even purchasing billions of hollow point ammunition. Yeah it is amazing he got all that bad stuff done. Unfortunately Wordygirl that is off the top of my head and just the tip of the iceberg. my hand got tired I could have gone on and on.
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@wordynerdygirl… If it was just “Free Healthcare” paid for by the taxpayers and what the country brings in I’d be all for it. But it’s overcharging some middleclass people who won’t be able to pay for it , and it’s loaded with pork.. if you don’t know what that is it’s for the special interests. It was written by insurance companies… it’s like giving them a blank check.
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@ dave You have some really good points there re: the NDAA/foreign policy etc. But I will have to respectfully disagree with you about gun control.
I will never, ever understand the strange ideological attachment that American have to their guns. It makes you more fearful and less safe. Why not introduce a ban on assault weapons and a process that requires a background check and safe storage for any other firearm? What is so terrible about that?
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@ dave yep, I do agree with you somewhat there. Anyway, we pay a 1.5% levy to the Government here and the money goes straight to the doctors who treat us. It works well.
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Ok well the problem is with gun control is who takes the guns.. guys with guns right? So who will then take their guns? Seems like police corruption and government corruption is to rampant here for that. Not only that do you think that drug lords and the mafia etc. will turn in their guns? fat chance!
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Hasn’t worked well in Mexico and it won’t work here either.
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@ dave it has worked in Australia. No massacres since 1996 which is when gun control was introduced. 31% drop in the overall homicide rate. 60% drop in gun homicides.
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I’m glad for you I just think Mexico being that it is so close to us and shares some history with us is a better barometer. I also think the trend in stealing and dirty cops and congress would continue and get worse. “We the people” will mean less. Maybe the Senators would “exempt” themselves from that like they did with the affordable care act right after giving each other some more raises. Then they could say “You want to shoot…. then fight in my war”… “Yea! more arms deals.. hooray” “More checkpoints, hooray” … no thanks.
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mstoogood4yall & Sharina:
wow wtf, that guy is so disgusting ugh I can’t. The dumb mothers participated in it is beyond sick who the he11 can do that to their own child smh. I see he trying to blame drugs, bs.
yes, there are some real sickos out there – if this was rap or hip hop tsome people would probably try to link it in with the music somehow but not in this case.
lifelearner:
I don’t buy that article for a minute. It reads like “The William Lynch letter”, The majority consumer of gangsta rap is white teenage males, so why isn’t the prisons filled up with that demographic? I mean if the people listening to the music will become more criminal in their activities.
Whilst the events might not have happened in the way they are presented, I do think there is more than a grain of truth to it. Most die hard hip hoppers and rap lovers that I knew tolerated Gangsta Rap, there were some good tunes but, I felt there was still a nostalgia and longing for the old days or a new emergence of political rappers or ‘fun’ hip hop/rap – but it seems that the market was saturated with this alternative stuff. Either that or real real real commercial stuff like Will Smith/Fresh Prince and Boom Shake the Room. Maybe a coincidence but this is the time that the videos became like jiggle tv and almost x-rated (for the most part I watched with interest 🙂 ) but in reality there is only so much of this that is appealing.
I wonder whether because it is black people rapping and enacting many of the scenes on these videos, whether white youths dont take to emulating them to the degree where a black youth would as it is someone who is like them and speaks to them in a word if you get what I mean. This would in part explain perhaps why the white teenagers are not filling up the prisons like their black peers.
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http://t.money.msn.com/now/luxury-hotel-creates-shanty-town-slum-for-super-rich
smh, whats next pay to experience slavery? but with hot water, a bubble bath, and 5 star food.
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http://m.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-25190119
“Rare Iceland armed police operation leaves man dead”
“Police regret this incident and would like to extend their condolences to the family of the man,” Icelandic police chief Haraldur Johannessen told reporters.
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A few years back I read a message board post written by a Black woman living in Iceland. She said that in Iceland Blacks aren’t necessarily the “low man on the totem pole” minority in the same way we are in the US. That it is the Romani / “Gypsy” people who are the official “Despised Other” in that country.
She did mention though, and IIRC, that at the conclusion of some social function or other she’d attended, there was an older white male local who offered his hand to shake to each attendee as he / she exited. When it came time for him to shake the hand of the Black woman, and though he did so warmly and with a smile on his face, he also took out a handkerchief and wiped down his hand immediately afterwards.
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@Omnipresent
I definitely can see that, regarding emulating gangsta rap among black teens vs. white teens. The stuff that’s out there now as it relates to hiphop is pretty pathetic. Just google “Ratchetpiece theater with Issa Rae”, it’s sad the clowns that are “representin”.
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More post-racial America
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^ http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/12/02/landry-thompson_n_4372573.html?ncid=txtlnkusaolp00000592
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@ king
wow ain’t that some bs, they “rescued” a blonde white girl from a non white male that had permission and her parents written consent smh all the while there are actual missing children out there. I guess they thought he abducted her because there is no way a white person could ever willingly go with a non white person. oh he produces written proof from her parents now we can’t trust that must be forged, oh called her parents to confirm it still not good enough they must be imposters. it says there was another dancer as well in the car I wonder what race that person was and if they also called cps and placed them with someone if they are underage.
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http://newsone.com/2796787/gop-rosa-parks-ended-racism/
smh but rofl at the tweets
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http://newsone.com/2797694/students-arrested-waiting-for-bus/
people can’t even go to work without being arrested and now waiting for a ride is apparently a crime.
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@ mstoogood4yall
Yeah, most child molesters are Black, right?
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http://newsone.com/2797410/jeanne-deroo-elle-blackface-apology/
really blackface omg first they mistook Danai Gurira for nene leakes now one of their employees puts on blackface.I guess we all look alike to these magazines one mistaking alfre Woodard for idris elba. what is wrong with ppl u don’t have to darken ur skin to emulate ur favorite black celeb. just be urself. then the b3sh contradicted herself in her lame apology “I realise how much the fact of painting oneself brown is an offensive act. I didn’t realize the seriousness of my action when I went to a private party last Saturday evening” really dumb ish u said u knew it was offensive then turn around and say u didn’t know it was serious sit ur arse down somewhere. oh but I see she had sense enough to make sure she said it was her actions not elle magazine, f u and elle magazine.
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More righteous policing.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/12/02/kalief-browder_n_4373544.html
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“I realize how much the fact of painting oneself brown is an offensive act. I didn’t realize the seriousness of my action when I went to a private party last Saturday evening, which the theme was “Icons”, and where I chose to embody Solange Knowles, of whom I am a fan. During this private party, I posted a picture of myself on my Instagram without intention of hurting anyone. I deeply regret and would like to present all my apologies. I would also like to indicate that this picture published in a private context does not involve in any way the French ELLE magazine I work for, and I am sorry for the prejudice it has caused.”
translation; oh I knew it was offensive I just thought my actions wouldn’t receive backlash and nobody would see it because it was a “private” party. too bad I was stupid and posted it online otherwise nobody probably would’ve ever know are dumb and racist I am hehehe. The theme was icons and I thought well I love solange( see i’m not racist I love black ppl i’m a fan of one) so I should go as her and do blackface to really make the look authentic too bad that I failed miserably and ended up looking blacker than solange herself. I posted the pic and didn’t want to hurt anyone I thought when u upload stuff it is private but I guess the only thing private was the party not my instagram oops. I would also like to keep my job and apologize for my behaviour which has nothing to do with my wonderful job but is all me. i’m sorry for the prejudice it caused and sorry that, that makes no sense as prejudice didn’t cause ppl to react but me acting on my own prejudice and racism caused this and for that I am not sorry I don’t give an f I just issued this apology to keep my job so u ni22r’s won’t be complaining to them.
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typos smh I meant nobody probably would’ve ever know how dum and racist I am
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ugh still a typo, screw it. awkward moment when ur typo correction is still full of typos.
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king
it is amazing how all it takes is some accusation and ppl are hauled off waiting for a long arse time for a trial. some get tired of trying to prove their innocence and just plead guilty just to get it over with. sh2t happens everyday unfortunately.
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bawhwahw
I am so slow I just realized the snow follows ur mouse lol when I look at the snow falling long enough it looks like stars shooting across the sky
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Just sat through James Loewen’s presentation. It was good. He has interesting ideas on why American history disappoints her pupils in school. He seems fixated on Sundown towns. However, I do not agree with is timeline for the nadir of racism. He would have it end toward the 40’s.
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@KOT
Was that a live presentation or a video presentation?
Anyhow, I agree that the nadir of race relations in the USA was 1880s – 1940s. By the 1940s, some repeals started to occur (eg, the Chinese Exclusion Act, Restrictive Covenants, some states started to repeal their anti-miscegenation laws, etc.) By the 1940s, it started to upswing until about the 1970s when it plateaued.
Abagond wrote about that:
But then again, he based that on Loewen also. 😛
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@ KOT
Sundown towns are Loewen’s big thing. He wrote the book on it.
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the snow thing i think it is is fuckin up my android
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lifelearner: I definitely can see that, regarding emulating gangsta rap among black teens vs. white teens. The stuff that’s out there now as it relates to hiphop is pretty pathetic. Just google “Ratchetpiece theater with Issa Rae”, it’s sad the clowns that are “representin”.
It is almost like some rappers have become charicatures and are playing up to the stereotypes that they have been labelled with. I looked at one of the episodes, (episode 1) not heard of Georgia Peach – explicit lyrics. I come from the 2 live crew era when that was controversial as was ODB ‘put it in your mouth’ a few years later. I much prefer the other type of content such as political or ‘fun’ rap stuff in all honesty
mstoogoodforyall said about Danai Gurira (not familiar with this person) being mistaken for Nene Leakes. These 2 women are bundled in the same pigeon hole – why? Because they both have short hair and are black perhaps? I bet that the person who made the error said it was an honest mistake but I have seen it happen and often it is done to try insult and not a misunderstanding. They look nothing alike as far as I can see – not even from a distance.
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It was a live presentation. I had only read one of his books because they are so expensive in Japan.
@Agabond, he even stated that his website tags them. I was well surprised about the sirens that would wail to let blacks know they weren’t welcome after this time.
@Jefe, I feel that the end of state support for KKK activities and membership is the point were I feel the nadir starts to end which is in the 40’s yet resurfaces in the 50’s. Until that point joining the Klan was as American as pie. I also disagree that things on general are getting better. I think more of things on general are more. I would say 1955 feels more up swing. I feel right after WWII there was an upswing, but then you have the idea of more subversive ethnic controls like red lining, higher mortgage and insurance rates, GI money. So I guess the Nadir of national supported racism is maybe around that time at least from my view.
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^^^^ I hear ya, one of my all time fav is “Self Destruction”
Back in the sixties our brothas and sistahs were hanged, how can you gang-bang. I never ever ran from the KluKluxKlan and I shouldn’t have to run from a black man
and U.N.I.T.Y. by Queen Latifah
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@ peanut
That was utterly insane. Who in their right mind shoots at a car full of children? She should not have driven off, of course, but the police were treating her like an armed and dangerous criminal.
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Nelson Mandela has died.
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RIP Mr. Mandela
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Senator Rand Paul in Detroit
(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6hZqoxmyow8#t=498)
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I would like to get Abagond’s thoughts on: The Manosphere(PUA, MRM, MGTOW, etc) and The Alt right(this tends to intersect with race realism but is not the same). Please write some posts
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Interesting perspective, Kiwi
Can anyone relate to this? –> http://www.buzzfeed.com/hnigatu/racial-microagressions-you-hear-on-a-daily-basis
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^ oh, u may need a time machine for that. I saw how my grandparents relationship was and no thank u lol don’t want a relationship like that. I don’t think I ever want to get married, unless I decide I want kids other than that probably not.
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idk why i’m so awesome but ok :).
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@Kiwi
Wow! I just assumed most Asians thought themselves as being white. You have definitely broaden my narrow view. Thank you for sharing. It’s beyond frustrating to have to deal with microaggressions. Hopefully the more these type of scenarios are discussed and brought to light the less these occurrences will happen. **I know, I know wishful thinking on my part;-)**
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Aw thanks peanut *blushes*. Ur awesome too. I hope the right man comes ur way.
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@Lifelearner
It is funny, but the day before I saw this post, I found this other page on the same website:
http://www.buzzfeed.com/video/micaela/16-things-you-should-never-say-to-mixed-race-people
I guess multiracial people often get similar reactions as monoracially identified people But I think they also get a slew of others, many of which also come from POC.
Maria P.P. Root (http://www.drmariaroot.com/) has a big list:
Click to access 50Experiences.pdf
And many of these microagressions directed towards multiracial people do not just come just from whites or Americans. It is also common overseas and sometimes even comes from other multiracials.
WOW! I am really curious how many people feel that way. It seems like you have been bamboozled by the Model Minority Stereotype (just as much as many white and Asian Americans are).
Would it seem strange to you that I often felt that black people were more like white people in many ways that Latinos and Asians are not?
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@Lifelearner,
I have comment to you in moderation.
@Kiwi,
I wonder if you were ever interested in how microaggressions (and not so micro) have changed over the years. As you know, the model minority stereotype (first appearing in 1966 and promoted in the 1980s) has driven some of the evolution of the nature of the aggressions over time.
I was a substitute teacher fresh out of college in the early-mid 80s at a junior high school in Maryland that I previously attended in the 70s. The student population was about 48/47 black/white (about even). Even you would be appalled at the extent and number of microaggressions I got from the students and teachers while working there. In a special ed class, several of the students (esp. black students) jumped around the room the whole class period simulating kung fu and karate kicks and screaming whining noises. They didn’t listen to a single thing I said. Some of the microaggressions came even when I wasn’t physically there. I substituted for one of my ex-teachers, and when she came back she could tell from the students’ expressions that they did not behave when she was gone. She made them write apology letters to me. The typical letter said something like “Just because you are a foreigner does not mean that we should disrespect you and act bad in class. Maybe you are still learning English.” I have some ancestors in the USA that date back to the Revolutionary war.
But that was during the time of the Vincent Chin incident. At that time you could murder someone and get away scot free. Pre-80s there were more violent aggressions. (Even though there is still extensive hazing and bullying now – imagine how it was even worse then).
Prior to mid-70s, I think some of those microaggressions still existed, except for the Kung Fu ones (which came after Bruce Lee and the TV show Kung Fu). But, at that time, it was the Vietnam War. Asian-Americans were excessively dehumnanized. Whites (and even Blacks) were taught to look at them as g**ks so that they could be easily killed. People would say that they fought in the war and shot and killed “you guys” so that you would not come here to “our” country. It was horrible.
But at least at that time, we can say it was horrible. Nobody in the 60s-70s would say that Asian-Americans thought of themselves as white people. Nowadays, the Model Minority stereotype is so pervasive that people believe that microaggressions don’t even exist. The post 80s generation believe that Asian-Americans didn’t exist prior to the 1980s. Even black Americans don’t even know about how the interplay between Blacks and Asians (and to some extent, Native Americans) evolved during 1850 – 1980. If they did, they would immediately condemn the Model Minority Stereotype and expose it for what it is, a tool for whites to erode civil rights , esp. for blacks.
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@ jefe
In one way it would seem odd to think black/white folk were similar. Yet in another way I can see the comparison. Especially when looking at socioeconomic status/region. Particularly down South. The accents of most Southerners if talking with them on the phone one couldn’t tell if they were black or white. And the Southern cuisine, both have tasted Soul food- ask Paula Dean (chittlins’ anyone *full disclosure, I’ve never had them. But during the holidays I’ve seen them on my parent’s table.*) 😉
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This weeks episode of, “white privilege” for white people.
A white teenager, gets 10 years probation for killing 4 people and paralyzing another, while under the influence of alcohol, the lawyer for the white teen age boy, claimed “influenza” as a defense and the white female judge, accepted it.
Prior to this, the same judge, sentenced a black teenager for punching a man, then the man fell down and hit his head and died as a result. He was sentenced for 19 years! Racist judge anybody? See for yourself:
(http://youtu.be/xD5gBlDHLho)
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Typo, the black teen was sentenced for 10 years, not 19.
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@ Jefe, micro-aggression is such a weird thing. When I went to school we had the Asian islands. These kids were basically set off on their own without anyone talking to them. The reason being was everyone thought they were too smart. As the lone black kid of the island I wondered why. First of all there was some extremely smart people there but then again two of my friends were not academic at all. There was also the idea that all Asians were friends which I could have attest that was far from true at my school. There was also a distinct difference from American Asians and those who were not. Tons of my Japanese friends could not accept one of my Japanese American friends because he played football spoke as if he were “black”. He also wasn’t that great in school. Yet, most of the Americans lumped him in unless they were on the football team. I think the problem with kung-fu in my generation would have been all of that Samurai Sundays. Which were usually badly translated Chinese Martial Arts movies.
I would love to know if it has gotten better for Asian students since my time as a student. However, I would never trade my time on the island for anything. Half of the reason I got through High School was from the biting sarcasm of my friends there. Or as one of my friends put it “you gotta laugh because crying attracts monsters.”
Still, if you want to see the evolution of something go back to the moment right before they were called a dirty name.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coolie
Although there are some books on it a better study would be enjoyed by me. However, if you look at the history of Japan they have long endured the idea of being the perfect society. I recommend the book Samurai William, or looking up The Black Ships and Commodore Perry. I would also start reading with Korean-American history. A lot of the Model Minority came from the idea that all those mom and pop laundry mats were living up to the American dream. As they came from nowhere and made a living. Which also began to separate them from other minorities. However, it would be the 60’s that would start to really see the wedge in how we use to think to how we now see Asians in America. Although I am not currently up to date on how we see Asians now.
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Here’s a follow up by Anderson cooper, pointing out the separate instances if justice, between the white and black teens to a clinical therapist.
I see white people like to dance around race and always try to use “poor” instead if black and “rich” instead if white. Dance around race much?
(http://youtu.be/fqqcZT0uNsE)
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The dance around race rich/white/black/poor thing is interesting. I’m sure it’s true that many white people do that.
Personally, I think people’s political situations will influence how they perceive race/wealth and the usage of terms pertaining thereto.
Wealth and race are clearly closely linked – the disparity in wealth distribution in the west shows that very clearly. But for some people – especially working class political animals – I think the emphasis on wealth/poverty is not an exercise in dancing around the race issues; but more the expression of a belief that oppression by a privileged elite is something suffered by working people of all races. I recognise the very obvious, and disproportionate, disadvantages piled upon POC – but I think more progress could be made if working class people of all races were to unite to fight against the crimes of the rich (mostly white) elite.
I sometimes blog in terms of class and wealth/poverty and sometimes in terms of race. The two issues are intertwined, but they still have their discrete identities. When I speak in terms of class and wealth inequality it is because I consider all races to be on the same side, Unfortunately, it has been in the interests of those with power to ensure that conflict occurs between us, the real people. For us to divide along racial lines is a mistake. For this reason, if none other, racism is frustratingly stupid.
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@kiwi ‘A common excuse is “Oh, Asian men remind me of my Dad.” or “Oh, Asian women remind me of my Mom.” But of course, we know these reasons are bull****. White people shunning their own race is almost unheard of. ‘
uh ok, this is one of the things i question in myself a lot, ie why i date black. i have never quantified it in regards to unresolved parent issues, but i have a long history of self-psychoanlysis on my fb page, my friends are eh tolerant of it i guess or tolerated to it at this time. that corridor seems kinda poorly lit and creepy anyhow… im not that into the reasons why
@budhuu “think the emphasis on wealth/poverty is not an exercise in dancing around the race issues; but more the expression of a belief that oppression by a privileged elite is something suffered by working people of all races. ”
working or not, the ‘99%’ shall we say for sake of a symbol, and this is certainly my perspective
“For us to divide along racial lines is a mistake. For this reason, if none other, racism is frustratingly stupid.”
well team tommy {sotomayor} takes that dialectic to the next level
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I have to confess that, being in UK, I’m a little out of touch with many of the figures who crop up in debate. My familiarity with TS only extends as far as being aware of his attitude to black women, and an article of Abagond’s that I’m sure I read here but now can’t find.
Could you expand a little, please, V8?
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Correction – Just found Abagond’s TS post. Yup, that’s about all I know about the guy.
Why do I get the feeling I’ve set myself up for target practice…? Ah, well. Wouldn’t be the first time.
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Respectfully, I’d ask if and why this is necessarily a bad thing. If one accepts the premise of a “melting-pot” nation, that implies people “melting” to join a common culture. In a majority European-descended country, that culture would be mostly a “white” one, depending on where one lived.
Similarly, I’d expect those who emigrate to China would have children who identify as being culturally Chinese. Wouldn’t a host country desire and expect this of its immigrants?
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Does culture have to be homogeneous? Can it not have many streams, currents, facets that can coexist without subsuming or dominating each other? All it needs is a bit of common sense and sensitivity in those areas where values differ.
I think people have more in common than most realise.
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(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cwwd1hM4pVU)
Jimi Hendrix-Sgt Pepper’s Lonely Heart’s Club Band [Stockholm 67]
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(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Sj_WhXRUDQ)
Jimi Hendrix- Like a Rolling Stone
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I thought the guy who was doing the sign language that was not sign language was bizzare to say the least, how did he slip through the cracks?
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^ Yeah… how did they miss the telltale signs?
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@ lifelearner
I can see why you think of that, and I see your point, but that is not the first thing that came to my mind.
I thought of things that happen in both the North and the South and the even the West. For example, if a Black man was on a bus with other blacks, whites, Asians, Latinos, Native Americans, and he wanted to strike up a conservation about the Super Bowl, he would instinctively gravitate to the white people way before he would approach the Latinos or Asians, no matter how big a football fan they might be. The same thing would happen at a cocktail reception. If he were travelling on a tour bus in Rio de Janeiro, and 1/2 the bus was American, including Asian Americans, Latino Americans and white Americans, I am almost certain he would approach the white groups and not the other American groups. I always received the impression that black people identified (socially and culturally) with white people more than they do with other American POC. This was *MY* anecdotal experience. On top of that is the one you mentioned – how Southern US culture is largely a mixture of black and white and you find it mixed into both sides.
But also, perhaps, it is not altogether different from blacks assuming that Latino and Asian Americans gravitate towards whites more. White is the Default, so Blacks might feel they *know* more about white American culture than they do about Asian American or Native American or Pacific Islander American.
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@lifelearner, I replied to you and it is in moderation. I have no idea why.
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I am so annoyed by the what would u do episode, they were trying to make it like black people are racist and they did not repeat the scenario in a white barbershop. I wanted to slap the black ppl saying we have a black president its progress and this is not progress when the black actor said he didn’t want a white guy cutting his hair. Then the scenario with the black actress being rude to the white woman was so dumb, feeding into the emasculating black woman stereotype as well as the weak black man stereotype. Then it was a black woman that came to the white woman’s defense masculinizing herself in the process by defending a woman whose man should be defending her. And feeding into the poor white woman needs saving stereotype. I am tired of them trying to act like black ppl are racist and the most against interracial I haven’t seen a black people make laws saying two ppl can’t marry each other, I have not seen a black church deny a couple the right to get married. Then they try to act like black women are the major ones so against it, really when have u seen a black woman attack a white woman for being with a black man, when have u seen a black woman kill somebody for being with a white woman. Those lame black ppl defending that woman would not have said a dam thing if it was the other way around there would have been no lets love and kumbaya. They did not repeat the scenario in a white barbershop hmm wonder why oh they were trying to say black ppl are racist, they even asked ppl do u think that is racist. more propaganda. More confused black ppl throwing themselves into the fire for a white person and saying some dumb things about we have a black president and love everybody kumbaya.
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@Kiwi,
I respect your experience, but I hope you understand that it is your own anecdotal experience. It is shaped by your own contact, community and generation. I am sure that you have met many Asian-Americans who identify with white people and being white, and especially many HAPAs who do so.
I hope that you do not brand everyone with that brush, You would then have to brand yourself.
I have known quite a wide variety of Asian refugees, Asian brain drain immigrants, Asian-Americans from 1st to 7th generation from all ages and time periods, HAPAs (both Mainland American- and Hawaiian born, Asian-born and born elsewhere) and Asian transracial adoptees – literally tens of thousands of personal connections. I cannot say there is a one size fits all description. I am not sure how many we can say identify with being white, but I do believe that while it is many, it is not necessarily most.
Indeed one reason I left America was because of the “White is Right” mantra. It disturbed me because I did not have many positive experiences with the white side of American society and with the white side of my family. I feel that outside of the USA, I have more freedom to be myself.
Also, as V8 indirectly alluded to, it is not inconceivable that some whites do not want to date white persons because they remind them of their mom or Dad. It is especially so for HAPAs (and other multiracials) and transracial adoptees – I know many who do not like to date white people because they remind them of their white Mom or Dad (or for some reason, they do not want to mix further someone who reminds them of the white side of their family). Of course, that is only my anecdotal experience, but I cannot say that I agree with you that it doesn’t happen.
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@KOT
OK, I guess we are going to have to agree to disagree on this one.
I AGREE
That there was more of an upswing in 1955. In fact, the mid-20th century (African-American) civil rights movement is generally dated from 1955 – 1968. It was from 1955 that the upswing had turned into a veritable unstoppable trend.
However, I will respectfully disagree that that was when the Nadir occurred. I would agree with Loewen and Abagond that the Nadir of Race Relations was during the 1940s, centering approximately in the latter half of WWII. From 1945 – 1955, there was not much of an uptick, but it had already hit rock bottom. Sure there was still growing Klan support and white-favoured government policies in the late 40s, but it was balanced out by growing support on the other side. The 1954 Brown v. Board decision did not happen out of the blue, but had been the result of a series of events that had been occurring for the past decade. In fact, growing Klan support in the late 40s was probably a reactionary phenomenon to the signs that race relations were no longer regressing, but there was a lot of push back.
The Japanese-American internment occurred in early1942 but the Chinese-American Exclusion Act was repealed in 1943. Then 442nd Infantry was the most decorated regiment at the end of WWII. The war brides Act indirectly helped Asian-Americans by allowing some of them to go to Asia to find wives (Asian-American men could not marry whites, nor could they bring women over before then). Asian-Americans in the Jim Crow south started to enjoy limited relaxation of Jim Crow laws towards them starting in the 1940s; by the late 40s, many could attend white schools, drink form white water fountains, use the white restroom and sit in the white section of cinemas. I think it hit rock bottom in 1942 for Asian-Americans, but it didn’t get worse after that. And for them, there was a major uptick until 1965 (except for the one that affected them indirectly as a result of the African-American civil rights movement). Even then, there was the Vietnam war, which kept racism as strong as ever.
For African-Americans, there were many upticks that started way before 1955. If you need an example, look no further than Thurgood Marshall, who started reversing many of the anti-black white racist practices since 1935. He forced the Univ. of MD to integrate their law school in 1936. He made racist restrictive covenants illegal in 1948. A whole series of movements occurred before Brown v. Board (1954). It was probably because of these that some white racist backlash occurred 1945-1955, but it only delayed the upswing. It didn’t stop it. (Redlining and Blockbusting grew in the 1940s precisely because restrictive covenants were outlawed).
Anti-Miscegenation laws began to be repealed in 1948. Of course, half of them were still in place in 1967, but the reversal of the trend had already started.
The Nadir was approximately 1937-1948. If I had to center it, I would put it around 1943-44, or during WWII. There was no major upswing until 1955, but there was enough push and pull in both directions to keep it from sinking deeper past WWII.
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@ jefe
Totally see your points re: gravitating to the American if in a foreign country. For me personally, if I I heard a person speaking English, that would be my litmus test regarding striking up a conversation. Sports and me are like oil&vinegar, lol.
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@ Randy
In the case of the U.S., the trouble is that the common culture of the majority European-descended people is racist against those who do not appear to be pure European by blood. Even if you are mixed race and can pass for white and be “accepted” by whites as one of their own, you are still being asked to denigrate half of who you are. That is why it is a bad thing.
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@mstoogood4yall i really didn’t go ‘that deep’ on the harlem barbershop video, i see what you are saying.
it broaches another thing i was chipping away at a ways back, like is clearly racist images/memes etc acceptable in a let’s say video production, in order to build to a summation of an expression of some type of unity no matter how trite/smarmy etc.? vis a vis south park’s ‘world war zimmerman’
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Santa claus is a black man, who knew? That is just crazy. This goes under the dialogue about race in America. Some teacher gets upset about her black student dressing up as Santa Claus, and she gets her underwear in a bunch about some black kid in a santa claus costume. This speaks to the discourse about the white mind set. Wow, and we even have a black president, and something crazy like this in 2013 pops off.
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And lastly would a drunk black or latino kid kills four people in a vehicle, get off like that brat with all the money? It’s very telling about white priviledge in tis country. Entitlement and money and white skin, and you get sent to a ritzy club med type of rehabilitation spa. And the judge says it’s not your fault because they didn’t teach you right from wrong. I am shaking my head over this foolishness.
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More school shootings on the anniversary of another. Lot’s of craziness popping off in America.
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Correction: The black student who dressed up as Santa, the teacher was male not female. I made an error in previous comments about the gender of the teacher who was male. The male teacher made a racially insensitive remark to the black kid about dressing up as santa. So the teacher has to apologize for putting his foot in his mouth. Whatever is in the heart is what comes out of the mouth.
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@Abagond: Since there has been another school shooting, why don’t you do a post on Miss Tuffs in Atlanta, Georgia?
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@lifelearner
Hi, thank you for your comment.
But either I expressed myself rather poorly (which is certainly very possible) or you totally *missed* my point. I was not talking about Americans vs. non-Americans or English speakers vs. non-English speakers. I was talking only about Americans who are all (presumably) English speakers.
My point was that in my (anecdotal, of course) experience, I often felt that black Americans gravitated more to white Americans than to other non-black non-white Americans. Sometimes it appeared to me that (American) blacks often identified socially and culturally more with whites than with other (American) non-whites and their behavior reflected that. There were many times when I got the impression that black people looked ay white people as “one of their own” and both pretended like I didn’t exist no matter how good my English was or how many generations of ancestors I had in the USA.
My point was that you felt that Asian-Americans already identified with whites for the most part. My question to you was … would it shock you if I told you that I often felt that (American) blacks identified with whites much of the time? at least a lot more often than with non-black non-white Americans. This is despite being very familiar with the difference between white American and black American history and growing up around segregated neighborhoods. (This is an impression I often received – it is not a fact that needs to be proven or disproven).
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Sorry,
I got the impression that black people looked AT white people as …
This is despite {MY} being very familiar …
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@KOT
Really happy you mentioned this. It seemed like the transpacific and transindian Ocean Asian slave trade picked up where the transatlantic African slave trade ended. Some locations outside Asia even became majority Asian (or markedly so) after this slave trade.
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@ Randy
Ha-ha, Randy. I do find it interesting when you comment.
I know that Abagond replied to you, but I have a little bit to add.
1. I find it interesting how you are still replying to comments to someone you were supposedly banned from communicating with.
2. “Melting pot” nation was never ever a premise. Is it written in the constitution? On the contrary, it is a name invented to describe a sociological phenomenon that happened among various ethnic white Europeans and their descendants. Promoted mid-20th century, it has been debated for decades whether it applies to non-European descendant Americans or not. And, if it means becoming “white”, then it is a misnomer, as “melting pot” is supposed to mean creating a new society composed of the elements that went into it. For centuries, blacks, Native Americans, Asians, etc. were excluded from that melting pot mixture. What you mean is ASSIMILATION into the white ethnic group and leaving everything else out. When whites were a minority across most of the South and parts of the West in the 19th century, or in modern day minority-majority states, or in the future USA, the melting pot theory does not work unless whites melt into the new mixture, ie, a new African-Asian-Amerindian- European mixture. When blacks made up 80% of the Mississippi delta, it should have been whites which melted into the majority black group. That did not happen.
3. Actually, I *somewhat* agree with you, only if the premise is assimilation into the mainstream ethnic group. Assimilation into another ethnic group has 3 steps:
– acculturation (learning and exposing oneself to the culture of the other group)
– assimilation (assuming cultural and social patterns of the other group)
– amalgamation (interbreeding and raising mixed offspring according to the pattern of the other group)
In order for Asian-Americans (or black Americans, Latinos, Native Americans) to assimilate into the white ethnic group, there would have to be a stage at some point where they would have to mix into, and be absorbed into the white ethnic group. Certainly that means that HAPA and other biracial people would have to be created. Once created, they would have to be raised to be part of the other group that is the target of assimilation.
But – this acculturation, assimilation, amalgamation process is also only a model. It is not a PREMISE by any means, and it is not identical to the Melting pot theory (which involves creating a completely new group out of the other elements – that is perhaps what happened in places like Mexico and the Philippines, which has absorbed many elements together to become a new culture and a new people).
4. Abagond mentioned it, but in order for the “premise” to work (where nonwhites are assimilated into the white ethnic group), in America, that process heretofore has required denigration of the non-white groups and any identity with them. I recall the daughter of one of father’s (half-Filipino, half-white) friends. She was 1/4 Filipino, fully acculturated into white culture and could pass as white. But she still felt compelled to hide or mask her Filipino ancestry, even dyeing her hair blond and hoping that no one would ever know she was part Filipino. I saw it distressed her terribly. But, I don’t see how it is that much different from what Anatole Broyard did. I feel it is SAD that a society forces its almost assimilated / amalgamated, but not quite citizens into such self-hatred.
5. Finally, I am still trying to figure out why you keep on feeling compelled to bringing up China (or in some cases, Japan) as a model on which to base what should be applied to the USA. Not only is it a bit weird, but it also makes some egregious assumptions.
– the most pernicious one is how you see “white” as being the host model for the USA. That assumption normalizes whiteness in the USA (and designates the nonwhite elements of USA culture and society as not quite normal).
– China (or Japan) can be used as a model for the USA.
Seriously now, their history is so different, how can you use one as a model for the other. The USA has been very multiracial, multicultural since the early 17th century. How can you use China as the model for the USA?
Anyhow, China does have its own model for a multi-ethnic, multi-racial society that it struggles with. In fact, historically, the Han have been expanding to assimilate the non-Han people surrounding it into it. But it is not smooth sailing, as the modern situation with Tibetans and Uyghurs attest. And it has its own problems about how to handle its own multiracial and immigrant citizens. I certainly would not advocate the US model as the one which China should model itself after.
– Finally, why do you keep on bringing up China and Japan? I am not really sure how much you know and understand their interethnic and interracial relations to use them as a model for the USA.
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so what is the main difference between ‘white’ and ‘black’ american culture, besides dressing ‘western’, goint to work, going to church, listening to the radio, dancing, drinking alcohol, watching tv, going to sporting events, driving cars, eating fast food, etc etc
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“Black people have not been given the privilege of individuality. What is said about one of us always ends up being what each of us has to defend ourselves from.”
[Extracted from following article link as provided by commenter Peanut:
_ _ _
The sad truth contained in the above quote is one reason I (under a previous username) argued, and, for the most part, argued alone, against the casual targeting of Black women with the nasty Negro bed w-nch name-calling, which – supposedly – is directed only at those individual Black women who, and for the purposes of romance and/or career advancement, align themselves with white men.
Slinging mud at the images of our forcibly enslaved Black female ancestors is the other reason I argued against the targeting of Black women with the likes of that smarmy term.
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this part in the link sums it up perfectly of what they are trying to do
“We do it by equating an entire history of slavery, subjugation, inequity, brutality, achievement gaps, prison industrial complexes, red lining, white flight, gerrymandering, jim crow, voter suppression laws, lynching, George Zimmerman acquittals, school defunding, etc etc in this country, to one scripted Black girl being rude to a scripted White girl in a barber shop in Harlem. That is how you reinforce a racist super structure in America”
amen. she said everything I was thinking nothing but stereotypes and they did not see what the outcome would’ve been in a white barbershop only focused on how blacks react. The whole scenario was to make the white woman the victim, the victim of the loud, rude, black woman, and the victim of an emasculated black boyfriend that didn’t defend her. all the black women in that scene were masculinized from the woman saying the rude stuff, to the woman that tried to “rescue” the white woman. It was just used for them to say see black ppl are racist too, forget the fact that blacks don’t have black supremacy and can’t get away with their prejudice. A black person can be prejudice but u let them say some things like that at work for real and they will be fired asap, white ppl do it and they keep their jobs or get paid time off while there is an investigation aka until the press dies down.
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well thanks for helping me really understand that video
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Jefe:
Likewise.
Jefe:
That person has referenced my own comments several times, which I view as conferring a consent to discussion.
Jefe:
This is an interesting and thought provoking point worth exploring.
Jefe:
I don’t think that items you listed are necessary for a “melting pot” society. For example, participating in Christmas season cultural traditions doesn’t require inter-ethnic or inter-racial genetic mixing. This can be anecdotally observed by surveying the holiday decorations aisle at a large store in any racially non-homogenous area.
Jefe:
To an important degree, these cultures have not become melting pots.
The Philippines in particular is affected by Han Privilege and Han Supremacy, an unjust (by the standards of American-style progressivism) set of cultural and economic discriminatory paradigms which presents throughout Southeast Asia, and which I’ve been personally affected by. More on this later.
Jefe:
I don’t see where this is required or forced. However, I would agree that people can feel encouraged to identify with a predominant culture. That’s quite a bit different from being “forced”.
On a personal note, I do feel a bit privileged in these discussions that I grew up in a 95% white area, and have observed so many of the same patterns which in these discussions are exclusively attributed to race, but which also exist within inter-ethnic European populations. Where I lived, Polish people were the minority ethnicity, and were the least esteemed. Did Polish kids tend to discount their Polish ancestry? Undoubtedly.
But the pattern goes deeper. Among Italians in my area, there was regionalism. Sicilians in that case were least esteemed among Italian immigrants. Did Sicilian kids tend to discount their Sicilian ancestry? Undoubtedly.
Guess what, it’s turtles all the way down.
Jefe:
I reference China mostly as a way to analyze issues in a manner that sidesteps what I perceive to be cognitive bias with regards to the US and its racial history and relations.
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@ Randy
Why is it that Poles and Italians have melted into the American melting pot while Black and Chinese Americans have not?
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randy,
Just my opinion, but, a “melting pot” can only happen if multiple cultures/races mutually adopt each other’s traits. What I mean by that is that both the culture and race of the majority of the citizens would have to reflect a mixture of some kind. Simply forcing a dominant culture on another group does not create a “melting pot”. That is because only the dominant culture and race would be reflected in the country. What you are describing is really just absorption of one group by another with the intent to eradicate the other group.
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Teacher tells black student he can’t be Santa:
This is why Santa Claus the symbol of the holidays, needs to be changed from a white man to a neutral symbol, that represents, inclusion and diversity.
(http://youtu.be/O0h3ft0HZmA)
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@ Sondis: Thanks for providing the link, I tried to comment about this see upper comments.
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Sure Mary ^_^
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@mstoogood4yall: On this past Sunday I was watch MSNBC Melissa Harris-Perry, I stiil wish you would check her out, on Saturdays and Sundays 9:00 am, Nikki Giovanni was her guest, Nikki Giovanni has an awesome poem called Ego Tripping, you probably have read it before, I love that poem so much.
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Why is it that Poles and Italians have melted into the American melting pot while Black and Chinese Americans have not?
Must you torture us by encouraging him in his long winded pontifications?
I’ll take a stab at this; The Italians and Poles have taken on the mantle of whiteness.
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Ms mary i’d never heard of her. her poem is nice. these parts of her poem are so awesome
“I sat on the throne
Drinking nectar with Allah
I got hot and sent an ice age to Europe
To cool my thirst
My oldest daughter is Nefertiti
The tears from my birth pains
Created the Nile
I am a beautiful woman”
“I caught a cold and blew
My nose giving oil to the Arab world
I am so hip even my errors are correct
I sailed west to reach east and had to round off”
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@Misstoogood4yall: There is one stanza of the poem where she says “I turned myself into myself and I was Jesus” WHAT” is the awesome or what. you should check out more of Sister Nikki’s work, she was always one of my favorites.
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*Is that awesome or what*
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“I am so hip even my errors are correct” This just AMAZEBALLS!
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Going to check out the movie Mandela, on Christmas day, right after Mr. Mandela’s passing, the timing of this is just give me pause and I hope to learn more about Mr. Mandela.
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“If America is a “melting pot”, why are way more white men married to Asian women than black women, despite way more black women being available?”
_ _ _
While there certainly are many more BW than EAW in the US, I would not go so far as to say the we are anywhere as nearly “available” to WM as are East Asian women.
One reason, though, why WM themselves may not seek out BW for marriage is because BW / BP have been painted as (and many non-Blacks, including many partially Black Latinos and Middle Easterners etc. also apparently regard us as) being sub-human.
East Asian women are viewed as being at the very most ‘acceptable’ mates for WM, but this has not always been the case. Also, I’ve seen where white women are eager to point out that it is mostly the homely, non-charismatic type and loser types of WM who pursue EA and SEA women. That’s certainly not anything worth bragging about.
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abagond
Your query raises the question about how one might go about quantifying degree of “melting”. I lack a sufficiently satisfying answer.
Should we only consider those who are no longer seen as being “different”? That would exclude Italians and Poles. Growing up, I heard the terms “dago” and “polack” used derisively on a regular basis.
In regards to your particular question, I’m not so sure that they haven’t “melted together” to an expected degree. The high level of outmarriage (at least among asian women) suggests significant cultural blending among the Chinese.
There are more than a few black folks in my social and economic sphere, and I would consider them to be culturally similar to me.
When people refer to “black culture” in a pejorative sense, there seems to be a required socio-economic element.
Anne:
I do think that a “melting pot” inevitably is a two-way street, though it’s reasonable to suggest that it’s more incumbent on the emigre to adapt their culture than it for the host country to adapt theirs.
When you visit my house, you remove your shoes, because that’s our household’s culture. Frankly, I don’t particularly care what you do with your shoes at your own house.
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In the U.K and I suspect to a wider degree, in Europe, I have seen examples of EAW with WM but, and I can only speak of the several couples I know, this has been a courtship of online dating/pen friends where the female emigrates from her own country to live with the male. The appeal besides the look was always initially to do with perceptions of how these women were as people i.e. playing the traditional role and more ‘submissive’ as a couple of the men said (I think they might cringe now that they are happily married that they used that word). I dont know any that are married to Britsh/European born women of EA descent.
The men in question were 50/50 – those that dated ‘locally’ and then decided this route to finding a mate or, those that were looking for second/third chance at marriage or were quiet unassuming individuals who did not master/were not successful in the cut and thrust of dating locally.
I have seen such broad examples of IR coupling between WM/BW, but the circle I know of this is also much wider than those of WM and EAW.
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Finally saw Fruitvale Station. I was hurt and angry. Watching video footage of the actual event was just. …so hard to describe. Anyway good movie nonetheless
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Slate recently posted an investigative report on the woman behind Ronald Reagan’s “Welfare Queen” narrative. I also offered my own thoughts here: http://macklyons.blogspot.com/2013/12/the-woman-behind-welfare-queen-narrative.html
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@randy,
And that explains precisely why the Europeans forced European culture on the people who already lived in the Americas instead of adapting to the already existing culture. They assumed they were in their own house. I’ll keep my shoes on since I am in my own house. As a guest, you are welcome to do the same.
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Duck Dynasty:
His comments about gays are offensive, but his vision of the Jim Crow South is shocking—and his conservative defenders and liberal assailants are mostly ignoring it.
“never, with my eyes, saw the mistreatment of any black person. Not once. Where we lived was all farmers. The blacks worked for the farmers. I hoed cotton with them. I’m with the blacks, because we’re white trash. We’re going across the field …. They’re singing and happy. I never heard one of them, one black person, say, ‘I tell you what: These doggone white people’—not a word! … Pre-entitlement, pre-welfare, you say: Were they happy? They were godly; they were happy; no one was singing the blues.”
In the rush to support Robertson for his beliefs about sexuality and sin, most conservative Christians seem to be ignoring this comment. Maybe they were too quickly swept up in the culture-war angle that dovetails with the community’s martyr complex. Or perhaps talking about the atrocities of the Jim Crow South reminds them that it was their theological forbears who perpetuated such injustices.
http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2013/12/the-real-em-duck-dynasty-em-scandal-phil-robertsons-comments-on-race/282538/
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^ i heard about what he said, yes the people are paying more attention to what he said about gays.
how many people have we seen that attack the black community or say racist things still have their job or their show? dog the bounty hunter got his show back after the tape came out of him saying the n word, the guy from seinfield that went into a racist rant during comedy standup is getting a show with kirstie alley. mel gibson said some racist things but he really messed himself up when he said things about jews. they don’t really care about what these racists say they will give them a job back but if they say anything about gays or jews they are not getting anything back.
the media was silent on alec baldwin saying alot of homophobic things until recently.
i hadn’t heard about the blacks in the article that were brutally killed except mary turner. very disgusting how he can try to make it like blacks during that time were just happy, no they were pretending to be to get through life. That is why when malcolm x came around and started saying how alot of blacks really felt ppl were shocked.
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then there’s this mess from tmz http://www.theroot.com/articles/culture/2013/12/tmz_poll_african_american_or_ni_a.html
all because one ignorant person ,suge knight, wants to be called the n word they took it upon themselves to make a poll asking ppl if they should call blacks the n word or african american. ugh as if one black person in hollyweird speaks for all black people. tmz has been racist they would not have put up a poll asking should we call gays the f word or gay. They do it because they know they can get away with it.
the only thing suge knight said that i agreed with was that nobody called eminem out on his song where he called black women the n word and b word. I am disgusted with black hollywood most of them today are sell outs and act like they speak for every black person in america. maybe when suge knight got knocked out it knocked the last bit of sense out of him.
I don’t want to be called the n word or african american but i like black better. but anybody that wants to be called a word that was used to insult our ancestors is so beyond repair. Nobody else i see does sh2t like this publicly. suge if u want to be called the n word keep it to urself and ur friends.
I have no respect for any of these ppl today except a few, most of them will throw their ppl under the bus for nothing.
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the newsletter…
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Happy Christmas everyone.
@Phoebeprunelle or Abagond
Please, please, please do a piece on Beyoncé’s “Blue” music video. There are little (about 8-10 year old) Black (Afro Latina) girls twerking and clapping their a55 cheeks, in hot pants, in the video. Had that been 21 year old (grown woman) White Miley Cyrus, the world would be going mad, but when it’s little Black girls, (child sexualization/simulation) no one says a thing; in fact they call it art. I’m not a writer, Phoebe you have to do a piece, if not you, Abagond or somebody. If we don’t speak out about this kind of thing, no one will.
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^ Beyonce has chosen her path
“Do What Thou Wilt” Aleister Crowley
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ah my 93 thing got chopped last time i posted on that…
but anyway, just got loaned a copy of ‘rivers of blood, rivers of gold,’ i’m told that will run somewhat tangential at least to my theory of triangle trade=undeclared war, and also, oh yeah my friend the director of our newsletter, has this thing for 42 negative confessions and the 10 commandments, it’s interesting research
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Ignorance is huge in the so called news media, this dust up with Megyn Kelly and her ignorant statements about santa claus, and now those Duck Dynasty people and their stupid satements about gays and black people. I am just rolling my eyes and shaking my head. What passes as journalism is just pathetic.
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@Ebonymonroe: Nobody wants to suffer the wrath of Beyoncé’s fans coming for them, She is the world’s idol.
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under mounting pressure to make the reasonable deadline of the kwanzaa issue out before kwanzaa
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(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lo1z_T5oGz8)
Deep dish Afro Diasporic Culture…8 Afro Bahian rythms , some of the dances that go with them …
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I have been stitching together my world view as seen through my philosophical ideology. It attempts to understand racism through the context of Empire. It is evolving and not set in stone and I’m putting it up for criticism.
Empires build great effigies of them selves at the expense of the Public. It is the logical consequence of Narcissism.
Anarchism seeks to make a economically horizontal society through recognizing that society is composed of top down hierarchy’s and doing away with them. It seeks to allow people to pursue their dreams free from third party coercion.
The three pillars of an Empire are economics, race and the State. Statisim is the economic domination of one group over another. If you want to end oppression then you need to do way with Empire and the monopoly of violence the State empowers. Religion is layered into Empire as well.
Racism acts a kind of protectionism and replicates the image of the ruling group as the standard by which all things are judged. It is the geo-centric image of beauty within society and woven into Empire justifies economic dominance and the creation of special economic privileges.
It is not possible to have moral equality within a society who’s Empire dictates the social, political and economic values based upon the image of the ruling group. Social justice can’t be bestowed upon a people by a benevolent State. Rather it can only happen on a locale community oriented level.
Justice can only exist in societies where the custom of seeking justice originates within the community. The law within Western culture is an Anthropocentric reflection of the Empire and it effectively protects the privileged groups, the Corpratacracy and those who play Empire.
Reclaiming social justice means doing away with the institutionalized privileges of the State and consciously recognizing hierarchy’s within society. Otherwise everything breaks down into antagonistic groups. It means a return to a kind of Communitarianism without the Authority of the State.
The mechanism behind Statism is the Law. The Supreme Courts of every country interpret law in favor of their Constitutions which act as protectionisms for their privileged groups. It is through Law that economic rents, privileges and coercion of some groups, become institutionalized within society. This is why for example racism is institutionalized within the American Justice system.
In a Stateless society the form of Law would change from protecting the Corpratacracy to protecting those within the community. Traditional folk and tribal groups operated on customary law which resembles European natural law in spirit but it’s application is compensatory as opposed to punitive. Customary law is about restitution while Statist law focuses on retribution, imprisonment and fines. Customary law is controlled by the community while Statist law is a reflection the Empire and enforced by the State.
Mutual respect amongst individuals (regardless of race, class, sexual orientation, religion ect) and the willingness to stand up for your neighbor rights, insures moral equality and is what makes up the soul of the community.
In short you don’t need a State to have civilization nor a holy book to define your humanity. You don’t need boarders to keep people out nor laws to define what is a citizen. You don’t need a piece of paper to give you freedom nor do you need a specific skin tone to give you rights. Mutual respect and the willingness to stand up for your neighbor is the foundation of community and the essence of Liberty.
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Cool. thanks B.R.
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@.br wb
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bahwhwah king that picture lol she look possessed. basically she does describe being possessed when she performs talking bout sasha fierce takes over her body. crazy. i don’t have any respect for ppl associated with jay z, she married to him so that is a reflection on her as well she throwing up his sign. i just look at celebrity couples as company mergers they just do it to become more powerful and to get ppl to say u know this other person must not be so bad because my favorite celebrity is with them. after she did that song bow down b#@$ i was like wow, yep the sweet girl singing about god and being humble has left the building goodbye.
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ebonymonroe
i just saw the vid i saw like about 4 seconds of twerking from girls on the beach. they tried to be sneaky and throw it in there real quick u blink and u miss it. but yes if it was somebody else they’d call it trashy and say it was objectifying young girls.
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its’ done the kwanzaa issue, vol 1, isssue 1
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it’s done
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https://app.box.com/s/afblb31ou2zni570qlwu
Stone Center Newsletter Vol 1., Issue 1, no login required
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@mstoogood4yall
I feel, like, grown women can do what they want, but putting 7-10 year old little Black (Afro Latina) girls in a video twerking and booty bouncing is on another level. They make a fuss about Miley but she’s a woman, these are little girls.
@Mary
I don’t have a problem with Beyoncé to be honest, nor her work, it’s the fact that she has Black girl children in this video doing dances intended to seduce; this is child sexualization. It is this that horrifies me, my beef is not with Beyoncé. Artists will do what they want, they will push the boundaries according to their own morality, and that is none of my business, but when it involves little children, that’s when the public should get involved. And this is not the first time Beyoncé has done this. Her clothing label “House of Dereon” had to pull an advertising campaign a few short years ago; she had little girls dressed up like women, in full makeup and high heals. People complained so much that they removed it. But this time, it doesn’t include White girls, they’re little Black girls so no one is going to say anything.
Well, the world keeps on turning, I guess.
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I was watching Melissa Harris Perry on MSNBC and the discussion this morning was about R. Kelly and his heinous acts with young girls, and how we should not be supporting him or his music, the discourse was that nobody cares about young black girls and nobody supports them. And how R. Kelly needs have his feet held to the fire. His new music entitled “Black Panties” the panelist said that Kelly was giving everyone the middle finger so to speak, and he is still objectifying women. And lots of feminist have huge issues with him, knowing what he has done. I heard that he would go to the high school were some of his victims attended, this is disgusting to me. I don’t think I will be buying anymore R. Kelly music in the future.
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Beyonce’ went to Walmart and gave away $50.00 gift cards to shoppers, that is nice I suppose, is it a publicty stunt? But I will say she is a savvy business woman. She is a good business woman.
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I don’t care if it’s R Kelly Beyoncé or the man on the moon. I don’t care if their good in business, or at colouring in with crayons without going outside the lines, when it comes to children and the sexualization of them, I am in disgusted.
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^^^
*I am in disgust
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Oh yes… a very good businesswoman!
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@King: You are such a silly billy. lol.
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@ Ebonymonroe: As you should be, I will not argue with you the sexualization of children is heinous and horrible. I don’t think anyone will disagree with you on that.
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🙂
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^^^
*they’re good in business
Excuse the typos, fast typer, but never without typos.
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I am checking out AlJezerra America is insightful and objective. It is like a breath of fresh air. Lots of interesting news exposes. It’s very diverse. And not biased like the other mainstream news media stations.
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Read the “Stomach-Churning” Sexual Assault Accusations Against R. Kelly in Full
By: Jessica Hopper Mon., December 16, 2013
Source: The Village Voice
It has been nearly 15 years since music journalist Jim DeRogatis caught the story that has since defined his career, one that he wishes didn’t exist: R. Kelly’s sexual predation on teenage girls. DeRogatis, at that time the pop-music critic at the Chicago Sun-Times, was anonymously delivered the first of two videos he would receive depicting the pop star engaging in sexual acts with underage girls. Now the host of the syndicated public radio show Sound Opinions and a professor at Columbia College, DeRogatis, along with his former Sun-Times colleague Abdon Pallasch, didn’t just break the story, they did the only significant reporting on the accusations against Kelly, interviewing hundreds of people over the years, including dozens of young women whose lives DeRogatis says were ruined by the singer.
This past summer, leading up to Kelly’s headlining performance at the Pitchfork Music Festival, DeRogatis posted a series of discussions about Kelly’s career, the charges made against him, and sexual assault. He published a live review of the singer’s festival set that was an indictment of Pitchfork and its audience for essentially endorsing a man he calls “a monster.” In the two weeks since Kelly released his latest studio album, Black Panties, the conversation about him and why he has gotten a pass from music publications (not to mention feminist sites such as Jezebel) has been rekindled, in part because of the explicit nature of the album and also because of online arguments around the Pitchfork performance.
See also: #AskRKelly Backfires Mightily on Twitter
I was one of those people who challenged DeRogatis and was even flip about his judgment — something I quickly came to regret. DeRogatis and I have tangled — even feuded on air — over the years; yet, amid the Twitter barbs, he approached me offline and told me about how one of Kelly’s victims called him in the middle of the night after his Pitchfork review came out, to thank him for caring when no one else did. He told me of mothers crying on his shoulder, seeing the scars of a suicide attempt on a girl’s wrists, the fear in their eyes. He detailed an aftermath that the public has never had to bear witness to.
DeRogatis offered to give me access to every file and transcript he has collected in reporting this story — as he has to other reporters and journalists, none of whom has ever looked into the matter, thus relegating it to one man’s personal crusade.
I thought that last fact merited a public conversation about why.
In this interview (which has been condensed significantly), DeRogatis speaks frankly and explicitly about the many disturbing charges against Kelly and says, ultimately, “The saddest fact I’ve learned is nobody matters less to our society than young black women. Nobody.”
Refresh our memories. How did this start for you?
Being a beat reporter, music critic at a Chicago daily, the Sun-Times, R. Kelly was a huge story for me, this guy who rose from not graduating from Kenwood Academy, singing at backyard barbecues and on the El, to suddenly selling millions of records. I interviewed him a number of times. Then TP2.com came out. I’d written a review that said the jarring thing about Kelly is that one moment he wants to be riding you and then next minute he’s on his knees, crying and praying to his dead mother in Heaven for forgiveness for his unnamed sins. It’s a little weird at times. It’s just an observation.
The next day at the Sun-Times, we got this anonymous fax — we didn’t know where it came from. It said: R. Kelly’s been under investigation for two years by the sex-crimes unit of the Chicago police. And I threw it on the corner of my desk. I thought, “player-hater.” Now, from the beginning, there were rumors that Kelly likes them young. And there’d been this Aaliyah thing — Vibe printed, without much commentary and no reporting, the marriage certificate. Kelly or someone had falsified her age as 18. There was that. So all this is floating in the air. This fax arrives and I think, “Oh, this is somebody playing with this.” But there was something that nagged at me as a reporter. There were specific names, specific dates, and those great, long Polish cop names. And you’re not going to make that crap up. So I went to the city desk and I asked, “What do we do with this?” They said, Abdon Pallasch is the courts reporter, why don’t you two look into it and see if there’s anything there? And it turns out there had been lawsuits that had been filed that had never been reported.
When you cover the courts in Chicago or any city, you go twice a day and you go through the bin of cases that have been filed and every once in a while Michael Jordan’s been sued or someone went bankrupt and it’s this sexy story and you pull it out. These suits had been filed at 4 p.m. on Christmas Eve. Ain’t no reporter working at 4 p.m. on Christmas Eve, and they flew under the radar. So we had these lawsuits that were explosive and we didn’t understand why nobody had reported them.
Explosive in what regard?
They were stomach-churning. The one young woman, who had been 14 or 15 when R. Kelly began a relationship with her, detailed in great length, in her affidavits, a sexual relationship that began at Kenwood Academy: He would go back in the early years of his success and go to Lina McLin’s gospel choir class. She’s a legend in Chicago, gospel royalty. He would go to her sophomore class and hook up with girls afterward and have sex with them. Sometimes buy them a pair of sneakers. Sometimes just letting them hang out in his presence in the recording studio. She detailed the sexual relationship that she was scarred by. It lasted about one and a half to two years, and then he dumped her and she slit her wrists, tried to kill herself. Other girls were involved. She recruited other girls. He picked up other girls and made them all have sex together. A level of specificity that was pretty disgusting.
Her lawsuit was hundreds of pages long, and Kelly countersued. The countersuit was, like, 10 pages long: “None of this is true!” We began our reporting. We knocked on a lot of doors. The lawsuits, the two that we had found initially, had been settled. Kelly had paid the women and their families money and the settlements were sealed by the court. But of course, the initial lawsuits remain part of the public record.
So her affidavit, this testimony — it’s all public record?
To this day, any reporter who so cares can go to Cook County and pull these records, so it drives me crazy, even with some of the eloquent reconsiderations we’ve seen of Kelly in recent days, that they keep saying “rumors” and “allegations”. Well, “allegations” is fair, OK. You’re protected as a reporter, any lawsuit that has been filed as fact. The contents of the lawsuit are protected. So these were not rumors. These were allegations made in court.
Do you think part of how it’s been handled and why it’s been under-reported is that music writers may not know how to deal with it in a journalistic sense?
Let’s start with the most mundane part. A lot of people who are critics are fans and don’t come with any academic background, with any journalistic background, research background. Now, nobody knows everything, and far be it from me to say you’ve got to be a journalist or you have to have studied critical theory in the academy. Part of what we do is journalistic. Get the names right, get the dates right, get the facts right. Sometimes, on a very rare number of stories, there’s a deeper level of reporting required.
There’s another reason: People are squeamish. I think a lot of people don’t know how to do it, don’t care to do it, and it’s way too much work. It’s just kind of disgusting to have to write about this and bum everyone out when you just want to review a record.
You and I got into it over Twitter around Pitchfork, in part over the fact that you were saying, “If you are enjoying R. Kelly, you are effectively cosigning what this man has done.” At the time, I was being defensive, saying people can like what they like.
To be clear, I think Pitchfork was cosigning it. I think each and every one of us, as individual listeners and consumers of culture, has to come up with our own answer. I don’t think there’s a right or wrong answer. The thing that’s interesting to me is that Pitchfork is a journalistic and critical organ. They do journalism and they do criticism. And then when they are making money to present an act — that’s a cosign, that’s an endorsement. That’s not just writing about and covering it. They very much wanted R. Kelly as their cornerstone artist for the festival. I think it’s fair game to say: “Why, Pitchfork?”
I had purposely not listened to his music since the initial charges came out, and I saw these ninth- and 10th-grade girls interviewed on TV, talking about how he was in the parking lot of their school every day and everyone knew how come. That is what it took for me.
Part of our reporting was sitting with those girls, sitting with their families, seeing their scars on their wrists, hearing the emotion.
Some of our young critical peers, they’re 24 and all they know of Kelly’s past is some vague sense of scandal, because they were introduced to him as kids via Space Jam. A lot of your reporting on this is not online, it is not Google-able. Collective memory is that he “just” peed in a girl’s mouth.
To be fair, I teach 20-year-olds at Columbia. Ignorance is nothing to be ashamed of. Nobody knows everything. A lot of art, great art, is made by despicable people. James Brown beat his wife. People are always, “Why aren’t you upset about Led Zeppelin?” I got the Bonham three rings [tattooed] on my foot. Led Zeppelin did disgusting things. I read Hammer of the Gods, I’m disgusted by the group sex with the shark. [Note: it was actually a red snapper! Still gross.] I have a couple of responses to that: I didn’t cover Led Zeppelin. If I was on the plane, like Cameron Crowe was, I would have written about those things if I saw them.
The art very rarely talks about these things. There are not pro-rape Led Zeppelin songs. There are not pro-wife-beating James Brown songs. I think in the history of rock ‘n’ roll, rock music, or pop culture people misbehaving and behaving badly sexually with young women, rare is the amount of evidence compiled against anyone apart from R. Kelly. Dozens of girls — not one, not two, dozens — with harrowing lawsuits. The videotapes — and not just one videotape, numerous videotapes. And not Tommy Lee/Pam Anderson, Kardashian fun video. You watch the video for which he was indicted and there is the disembodied look of the rape victim. He orders her to call him Daddy. He urinates in her mouth and instructs her at great length on how to position herself to receive his “gift.” It’s a rape that you’re watching. So we’re not talking about rock star misbehavior, which men or women can do. We’re talking about predatory behavior. Their lives were ruined. Read the lawsuits!
And there was a young woman who was pressured into an abortion?
That he paid for. There was a young woman that he picked up on the evening of her prom. The relationship lasted a year and a half or two years. Impregnated her, paid for her abortion, had his goons drive her. None of which she wanted. She sued him. The saddest fact I’ve learned is: Nobody matters less to our society than young black women. Nobody. They have any complaint about the way they are treated: They are “pregnant doges, hos, and gold-diggers,” plain and simple. Kelly never misbehaved with a single white girl who sued him or that we know of. Mark Anthony Neal, the African-American scholar, makes this point : one white girl in Winnetka and the story would have been different.
No, it was young black girls and all of them settled. They settled because they felt they could get no justice whatsoever. They didn’t have a chance.
And they learned that after putting these suits forth and having them get nowhere? Do you think they didn’t get traction because of the representation they had, or Kelly’s power? Were certain elements in concert with that?
I think it was a lot of things, including the fact that Kelly was fully capable of intimidating people. These girls feared for their lives. They feared for the safety of their families. And these people talked to me not because I’m super reporter — we rang a lot of doorbells on the South and West sides, and people were eager to talk about this guy, because they wanted him to stop!
Going back a little bit to our original question: You get this tape dropped in the mail …
Well, the tape came a year after we ran the first story. We ran this story and the world shrugged. Associated Press picks it up: “Chicago Sun-Times has reported a pattern of sexual predation of young women by Robert Kelly,” and everybody says, “Ah, well, OK.” Then one day I get this call that says: “Go to your mailbox. There’s this manila envelope with a videotape in it.”
We had gotten one videotape already after the first story, and we gave it to the police. When I say “we,” I mean a roomful of editors sitting around asking, “What is the right thing to do here? This would seem to be evidence of a felony, we should give it to police.” There was one tape, but the police could not determine the girl’s age. The forensic experts they had looking at it said judging by the soles of her feet, they could tell she was 13 or 14 at the time this tape was made, but we can’t identify who the woman is. Videotape No. 1.
There were tapes on the street. And I had heard of another video tape with a girl who was part of an ongoing relationship. This is the girl who was in the tape that was in the lawsuit.
And some 40 people testified that it was her?
Yeah. Coaches, best friend’s parents, pastor, half the family, grandmother, aunt — but the mother and father never testified, the girl never testified. When we wrote our story about the tape, the girl and mother and father took a six-month vacation to the south of France. We’d been to the house several times. We’d rung the doorbell. This was an aluminum-siding, lower-middle-class house on the South Side, with a station wagon which is 13 years old — you know what I mean? And now they’re in the south of France. And one time the dad got a credit as a bass player on an R. Kelly album. He didn’t play bass.
The situations are incredibly complicated, and sometimes there is an element of, “We’re gonna exploit this situation for our favor.” That doesn’t mean that it’s legal or it’s right or that girl wasn’t harmed. It tore that family apart.
How many people do you think you’ve interviewed? How many people came forward?
I think in the end there were two dozen women with various level of details. Obviously the women who were part of the hundreds of pages of lawsuits — hell of a lot of details. There were girls who just told one simple story, and there were a lot of girls who told stories that lasted hours which still make me sick to my stomach. It never was one girl on one tape. Or one girl and Aaliyah.
The other thing, the thing that people seem to not know: She was fresh out of eighth grade in this tape.
Fourteen or 15. That puts a perspective on it. She’s not sophisticated enough to know what her kinks are.
Let’s talk about what it is, aside from not just having reportorial chops, that might hold somebody back. I feel that a lot of younger journalists came up through blogs, not journalism school. They are fearful to write about it because they don’t know what they can say, what language they can use, if they can be sued for even acknowledging charges.
You may not know how to report, but you should know how to read. The Sun-Times was never sued for the hundreds of thousands of words that it wrote about R. Kelly. You cannot be sued for repeating anything that is in a lawsuit. You cannot be sued for repeating anything that was said during the six- or seven-week trial. It’s in his record, and then there’s Kelly’s own words. Then read [Kelly’s biography] Soulacoaster. It was not a pleasant experience for me to read Soulacoaster! But read it, and read what he says in his own book! Do your d**n homework!
What are the other factors?
Here’s the most sinister. This deeply troubles me: There’s a very — I don’t know what the percentage is — some percentage of fans are liking Kelly’s music because they know. And that’s really troublesome to me. There is some sort of — and this is tied up to complicated questions of racism and sexism — there is some sort of vicarious thrill to seeing this guy play this character in these songs and knowing that it’s not just a character.
Songs like “Sexasaurus” kind of makes it novel. The ironic, jokey Trapped in the Closet series airs on the Independent Film Channel and features Will Oldham — that has these other hallmarks of “art” that read to a white, hipster, indie-rock audience, then, because we are not taking certain things seriously, we can choose not to take the lives of these young black women seriously.
It puts it in the realm of camp or kitsch. If you have an emotional reaction to a work of art and you use all your skills as a critic to back it up with evidence and context. That’s all we can ask of anybody. We’re all viewing art differently. The joy is in the conversation. Pitchfork is the premier critical organ in the United States for smart discussion of music, books, and artists, but it doesn’t have this discussion. The site reviews his records but doesn’t have the conversation about, “What does it say for us to like his music?”
I think, again, everybody has to individually answer. I can still listen to Led Zeppelin and take joy in Led Zeppelin or James Brown. I condemn the things they did. I’m not reminded constantly in the art, because the art is not about it. But if you’re listening to “I want to marry you, girl thingy,” and not realizing that he said that to Aaliyah, who was 14, and making an album he named Age Ain’t Nothing but a Number — I had Aaliyah’s mother cry on my shoulder and say her daughter’s life was ruined, Aaliyah’s life was never the same after that. That’s not an experience you’ve had. I’m not expecting you to feel the same way I do. But you can look at this body of evidence. “You” meaning everybody who cares.
You told me about the night after your critical review of R. Kelly’s performance at Pitchfork ran, one of these women called you at 2 a.m.
This happens a lot. If you are a good reporter, you are accessible to people and you cannot turn a story off. And that sucks! The number of times since I began this R. Kelly story that I was called in the middle of the night, was talking to someone on Christmas Eve or on New Year’s Day or Thanksgiving. … Yeah, I got a call from one of the women after the Pitchfork festival review. “I know we haven’t spoken in a long time,” and said thank you for still caring and thank you for writing this story, because nobody gives a nuts.
It was a horrible day and a horrible couple of weeks when he was acquitted. The women I heard from who I’d interviewed, women I’d never interviewed who said, “I didn’t come forward, I never spoke to you before, I wish I had now that son of a pregnant dog got off.” Jesus Christ. Rape-victim advocates — I don’t believe in God — they do God’s work. These young women who volunteer to be in the emergency room and sit with a woman throughout the horrible process, I don’t do that. I’m not saying I’m even in the same universe. But somebody calls you up and says I want to talk about this, or thank you about writing this, or, “I can’t sleep because I’m haunted, can you hear what I want to tell you?” We do that as a human being. I would like to forget about this story. I’m not saying I’m super reporter. I’m saying this was a huge story. Where was everybody else?
There is a disregard for your ongoing concern about this. “Let this go, Jim. Get over it, Jim. He was acquitted.” You have never dropped this, and your peers are pissed because it puts the rest of us over a barrel. I can speak to this, too. It’s often uncool to be the person who gives a nuts.
“You’re jealous of R. Kelly, you’re trying to make your name off his career.”
Because you would love nothing more than to have to report and carry these stories of rape.
Rapes, plural. It is on record. Rapes in the dozen. So stop hedging your words, and when you tell me what a brilliant ode to girl thingy Black Panties is, then realize that the next sentence should say: “This, from a man who has committed numerous rapes.” The guy was a monster! Just say it! We do have a justice system and he was acquitted. OK, fine. And these other women took the civil lawsuit route. He was tried on very narrow grounds. He was tried on a 29-minute, 36-second videotape. He was tried on trading child pornography. He was not tried for rape. He was acquitted of making child pornography. He’s never been tried in court for rape, but look at the statistics. The numbers of rapes that happened, the numbers of rapes that were reported, the numbers of rapes that make it to court and then the conviction rate. I mean, it comes down to something minuscule. He’s never had his day in court as a rapist. It’s 15 years in the past now, but this record exists. You have to make a choice, as a listener, if music matters to you as more than mere entertainment. And you and I have spent our entire lives with that conviction. This is not just entertainment, this is our lifeblood. This matters.
Jessica Hopper is a freelance music and culture critic and the author of The Girls Guide to Rocking.
Read the court files and all of Jim DeRogatis’ Sun-Times reporting on the case against R. Kelly on the next page.
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I was beginning to feel odd. I thought I was the only one alive you did not like beyonce. Good to know I am not.
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http://www.whataboutourdaughters.com/waod/2013/12/18/black-internet-feminists-embrace-beyonce-as-one-of-their-own.html
Nope, definitely not on the Beyonce bandwagon. And R. Kelly needs help, to really think that he was going to come out with a new album with the title ‘Black Panties’-unscathed, that pedophile is cray-cray.
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bahwhaha rofl, king oh my that photo lol.
@ebonymonroe
i read that article, r kelly and anybody that preys on children is sick. the reason some ppl are ignoring it or giving him a pass is because they just care about the music nevermind how degrading and nasty it sounds. hollywood is full of pedophiles, they get away with it because they are famous and few ppl call them out. i was never crazy about beyonce or r kelly. i remeber a bit of the r kelly trial being on the news when i was younger but i didn’t remember much.
at the same time there are hypocrites in our community that were celebrating him getting off, and not caring about what happened all because they loved his music. i never could understand how people blindly follow somebody or make excuses for somebody’s behavior just because they like what they do. i hate to say it but it is mostly black women i see still being his fan and talking about his music, i was at a blog a few weeks ago and the sistah was going on about r kellys new music, smh.
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i think i’ma try to get out to lesotho fairly soon, time for something a little different
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Anyone seen this?
http://www.kulturekritic.com/2013/12/news/dna-evidence-proves-first-people-china-black/
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@Legion
Thanks Legion. Though I caught myself a cold so not sure how merry my Christmas will be. 😦
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@grin and bear it
I just read the article. The comment section is less riddled with the usually nonsense, but nonsense none the less. The sad part is how these people will argue down researchers. People who dedicated time and years to finding this out. It would be funny if it was not so pathetic.
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They proved that (the first people in China were Black) years ago on a documentary, through the use of DNA testing. The Chinese scientist refused to believe the theory at first, and I think part of his stance may have been due to the fact that China is quite nationalistic. But once he saw the results, he couldn’t deny it.
It really goes without saying since we already know life began in Africa, so everyone is descended from that lineage, anyway.
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@Ebonymonroe
True, but I guess I am confused on why so much denial. These people pride themselves on stats and research and the moment it is not in their favor it is not real or something is wrong. Even the freak out in regards to the color of Jesus is a bit insane.
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Of course. They’ve been doing that in Rock and Roll forever. I don’t think it’s even thought of as any kind of secret.
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Its a pyramid.
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I read it was a diamond, Jay-z’s label is Rockafella Records, it’s symbolizes the record label.
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@ mary
Then why are people who have nothing to do with Rockafella Records also making the same hand sign?
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Well again, it’s hardly a secret.
Jay Z lets everyone know he follows Thelema. He’s not hiding the fact.
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@ King: You got me there brother King, You know I am not surprised that they are into the occult. And like you say it’s hardly a secret.
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No, it’s not hidden. It wasn’t hidden with the Beatles or the Metal Rockers, and now with a lot of rappers and even pop singers. It means money, but even more than that, it means power to them.
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Love this song)
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nPvuNsRccVw
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The music industry has a lot of occult ties and a lot of coincidences. Like last night.
http://music.yahoo.com/news/three-6-mafia-39-lord-infamous-dead-40-230013997-rolling-stone.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lord_Infamous
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@ Sharina: I love Bruno Mars, and I do like that song.
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@King: Lots of young brothers dying of heart attacks and strokes. It is just strange, you don’t think that drugs played apart in this?
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It probably did. But a LOT of musicians die young.
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@King: So are you into conspiracy theories?
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@ Mary
Well… only to a degree.
For instance, You can’t really argue that the music industry doesn’t court the occult. They don’t hide it, or even deny it. Is that a conspiracy? I’m not sure… it could be seen that way I suppose.
Or the whole NSA thing. Before Snowden leaked those documents, what the NSA has been doing, this past decade would be seen as an amazing and unbelievable conspiracy/ But, it also happens to turn out to be completely true.
Drones, robots, secret satellites etc. Military intelligence and R&D is supposed to be a conspiracy by it’s very nature. So I believe in what I can verify.
So I’d say that I don’t believe in MOST conspiracy threes, and the ones I do believe in (if you can call them that) are fairly froveable.
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@Legion: I love Sister Mahalia Jackson. That’s a great clip.
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@ King: Ok fair enough.
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It’s complicated Legion.
But as for the dollar bill, the pyramid seal has only been on it since 1935.
Secretary of Agriculture Henry A. Wallace Recollects that Day
(Excerpts from his letters written in 1951 and in 1955):
“Turning to page 53, I noted the colored reproduction of the reverse side of the Seal. The Latin phrase Novus Ordo Seclorum impressed me as meaning the New Deal of the Ages.
I was struck by the fact that the reverse side of the Seal had never been used. Therefore I took the publication to President Roosevelt and suggested a coin be put out with the obverse and reverse sides of the Seal.
Roosevelt, as he looked at the colored reproduction of the Seal, was first struck with the representation of the “All Seeing Eye,” a Masonic representation of The Great Architect of the Universe. Next he was impressed with the idea that the foundation for the new order of the ages had been laid in 1776, but that it would be completed only under the eye of the Great Architect. Roosevelt like myself was a 32nd degree Mason.
He suggested that the Seal be put on the dollar bill rather than a coin and took the matter up with the Secretary of the Treasury. He brought it up in a Cabinet meeting* and asked James Farley [Postmaster General and a Roman Catholic] if he thought the Catholics would have any objection to the “All Seeing Eye” which he as a Mason looked on as a Masonic symbol of Deity. Farley said “no, there would be no objection.”
People can come to their own conclusions as to how “conspiratorial” the change was or not. But the All Seeing Eye has a long history. All worth reading about if you have an interest.
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@ Mary
There are very few artists that I actually truly like all their songs and he is one of them.
@Legion
Yes a cold. The weather here here is crazy. Sample of my weather from week to week:
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Mary J. Blige and R. Kelly are planning to go on tour, It will be called the King and Queen tour, am I the only one who thinks this is a bad idea?
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King and Queen tour???
I Definitely object!!
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@ King: I told you, you are a silly billy. lol.
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Making a big batch of Caramel Apple cider for the kids
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@ Sharina: That sounds yummy, Merry Christmas.
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@mary burrell
Oh it is. We made it for a baby shower in November and I brought some home and the kids devoured it.
Merry Christmas to you and everyone (including the trolls).
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Merry Christmas to the trolls, may you get switches and lumps of coal in your Christmas stockings. LOL!
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LOL!!
Sometimes I want to try to see the good in the trolls and then they say something so incredibly stupid that I am reminded why I dislike them. Though Abagond is right. They are stuck on stupid and I am confused on why they don’t know it.
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Dave or Randy, though can be very aggravating at times, I don’t consider them trolls.
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@Sharine: Dave just strikes me as obtuse, I think Randy is the voice of dissension. I read in a discourse there has to be a voice of dissension, but I also feel they are racist and narrow minded.
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*Sharina: Yes those two gut me as well.
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@mary burrell
I agree. Dave is obtuse, but willfully and naively. I do think my naive ability to want to cut him slack will get me in trouble one day. Randy caught my attention the day he got onto Da Jokah about something. Frankly I was surprised he said what he said. That atleast enlightened me that unlike other trolls Randy was here for the purpose of discussion and not the purpose of proving who was the bigger azz like Da Jokah, Rob, and Christopher Columbus do.
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Though I have come to realize that you can tell who is about serious discussion and who is not based on their very first comment to each thread. Even with the new trolls or lurkers.
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@Sharina: Agreed.
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But after watching how Linda handles these trolls I think I will be taking her route starting the new year.
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@ Christopher Columbus, Da Jokah, and Riverside_Rob
Here is my Christmas gift to you:
Tis better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than open one’s mouth and remove all doubt.” – Samuel Johnson
Perhaps this gift will serve you well. 🙂
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From the broadway show Avenue Q there is a musical number that those nasty little puppets sing called “Everyone is a bigot” I think it’s appropriate to this blog.
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a lot of oto (“thelemic”) tradition comes from egyptian myth
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@ Mary Burrell
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RXnM1uHhsOI)
Had to find it. LOL
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@ Sharina: Don’t you think it’s true? and it’s funny.
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@mary burrell
It does hold truth. When they got to the part of arguing about Jesus color it was funny considering that was part of discussion on this board.
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Abagond needs to do a post on Avenue Q.
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This is absolutely disgusting.
http://www.examiner.com/article/8-year-old-bride-dies-from-internal-injuries-because-of-40-year-old-husband?cid=taboola_inbound
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and Mary yes. I would be interested in seeing a thread on Avenue Q myself.
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It’s amazing what is acceptable and normal in other cultures. That is just sad and horrific.
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@Kiwi,
It sounds like your HAPA cousins are going through some racial stress coming from their parents. I hope you can understand it even though there may be some negative impact on you. Imagine a HAPA boy with an Asian mother that is constantly bashing Asian men and his white father is always nodding in agreement and joining in. It is likely that he will grow up hating himself unless he can succeed in passing as white, and even then he has to denigrate his own Asian elements. He will also feel compelled (esp. if he cannot pass as white) to echo his parents sentiments when he is around Asian males he contacts (eg, you) lest facing rejection from both his parents. The HAPA female will probably have less cognitive dissonance, and she does not have to identify as male and can bash Asian males as much as her parents do. The exceptions I have seen to this rule are the ones where the Asian mother separates or divorces from the white Dad (which is quite a significant proportion). In those cases, the kids probably also heard their mom bashing their white Dad (or his family), so they may feel less compulsion to amalgamate with whites. They might be more drawn to commiserate with other Hapas.
This is just my attempt to figure out what is going on in the Asian Female, white male households and may not represent many actual cases. The Asian male, white female households have a different dynamic going on. In those cases, the white female’s self-perceived higher racial status needs to be counterbalanced somehow with the husband’s higher educational or economic status otherwise the white female will think she is superior to her husband. Either case will have different impact on their kids.
I get the impression that this doesn’t happen quite like this in White – Black households. However, I could see that if the black husband is constantly bashing black women in front of his white wife, this could present some psychological problems for his daughters, who have to face black bashing from whites all the time. She might feel more comfortable dating black men knowing that she is not quite “black” like other black females (as white men might just label her as black). His sons might be able to date white women more easily and just write off those cases when he gets profiled as a black male. Then again, some might just be more drawn to other biracials. (Just talking out loud here – not really trying to prove a point.)
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(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dh6C4zDSA50)
Nyau
This is known as a traditional dance, and, is described as ancient …How far back could ancient mean? 4000 years ? 10,000? more?
There are some very notable things.
1. the rythm and dance are extremly fast aggresive, as many black Afro diasporic rhythms and dances are
2. the costumes are out of this world , and there is an outragous sence of humor going on
3. There are these movements that seem like referances to fast feet dances that I know about in the Afro diaspora
4. The absolute most mind blowing thing is at 1:01-1:11 and 3:47-3:58
I dont know if there are other dance cultures that go to the floor, but, no one does it as aggressivly and in syncopation like the Afro diaspora
when i think of some of the Afro diasporic dances that go to the floor, i think of the Nicholas brothers copping the splits, like James Brown , I think of Condomble, Voodoo, Santera moments when , a dancer starts to get possessed and ends up writhing on the floor…the great black American chereographer , Catherine Dunham , even depicts it , in one of her dances as a tribute to voodoo , so I know its not my imagination…
and , of course, recently, break dancing is all seriously about going to the floor in an extremly aggresive manor
as a person who has worked with break dancers, you can only imagin how much my mind was blown to see those moments of those numbers i described above
and at the same time, not surprised….the messeges in Afro diasporic rhythms and dances are ancient and extremly valuavble , and have affected contemporary world culture , more powerfully than any ancient buildings and structures and writings
this is part of of the incredible genius of ancient black Africa, the people that didnt cross the Red Sea, and the gifts they have given us…that we havent even scratched the surface of how to unlock their force and power
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Check this out, Australian comedian Aamer Rehman debunks “reverse racism”
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dw_mRaIHb-M)
Next time a white person accuses you of “reverse racism” just show them this video.
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http://www.cnn.com/2013/12/26/justice/texas-knockout-charge/index.html?hpt=hp_t2
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i heard about this mess today on the radio while we were travelling back home and passing through katy tx. katy is not far from houston. this is just sick, used the old mental illness excuse,smh.. even a mental ill person can see color and have hate and have sense enough to know who to hit and who not to hit. who is so called more valuable and who is not. i’m not surprised by this at all. still alot of ppl around here having their confederate flags on their trucks and fences. get over it u lost the dam war and they act crazy down here if their cowboys football team lose smh. a bunch of sore losers.
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dang sharina that is crazy disgusting and outrageous that that little girl went through that and died. what is wrong with parents allowing their kid to be with anybody so they can gain something. i mean dang at least wait until they are older, i;m not going to tell ppl not to have arranged marriages as i’ve read that they are more successful than others and is their culture, but i thought most let them grow up and at least reach puberty before allowing them to be married. and usually its somebody close to their age.
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@ Anne
Please do us the honor of posting that on the Knockout games thread as to enlighten our poor misinformed resident trolls on the dangers of their delusions.
@ Mstoogood4yall
Welcome back!! Haven’t heard from you on here in a while. 🙂
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@Mosh, white people do not want to hear about that. Anything spanning back more than 30 years is ancient history.
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@mstoogood4yall
I thought the same thing. I had no idea people were arranging marriages for 8 year olds
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@ sharina
i was out of town with family for the holiday now i’m back lol. as for the knockout thing somebody else posted a link on the knockout thread already. But u know it won’t do anything for the whites except for them to try to compare apples to oranges and say see its a hate crime when a white person does it. If he randomly punched a person its not a hate crime but apparently he singled the guy out and used the n word.
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I did see on the news this morning while getting ready for work an elderly black man was attacked in that knock out game mess, by some white youth. I was so hurt looking at that poor man.
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Hey does anyone know how to change your gravatar. I want to make some changes for the new year and not really sure how.
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I feel terrible for people losing their unemployment benefits, the government is playing with people lives. There are some stupid people in Washington.
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@ sharina
i will try to explain u click ur name at the top right hand corner after u log in. u will see it says my account. on the right side it says settings and it has password, security, public profile. click on public profile scroll down and u will see it says your profile photo. click edit your photo. it will open another tab. choose if where u want to upload the photo from. from ur computer, take a pic with ur webcam, a link to a picture. click on which one u want to do and it gives u instructions on how to do it.
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Thank you!!
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Semantics.
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Jefe said:
Some do.
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Saw the best man holiday. Love that movie
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This is an interesting Blog post on structural violence.
“The Violence Triangle”
“We shall refer to the type of violence where there is an actor that commits the violence as personal or direct, and to violence where there is no such actor as structural or indirect. In both cases individuals may be killed or mutilated, hit or hurt in both senses of these words [i.e., physical and psychological], and manipulated by means of stick or carrot strategies. But whereas in the first case these consequences can be traced back to concrete persons as actors, in the second case this is no longer meaningful. There by not be any person who directly harms another in the structure. The violence is built into the structure and shows up as unequal power and consequently as unequal life chances.”
http://footprintsonsand.wordpress.com/2012/02/20/the-violence-triangle/
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@ jefe a sizeable proportion of Aamer Rahman/Nazeem Hussain’s fans are white Australians.
This is not to say that their shows have not provoked any right wing/racist bellyaching. The Australian Broadcasting Corporation (ABC) did a profile of them which you might find interesting – they talk about some of the controversy:
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xmM4ujeIDfE)
They also had a tv show on SBS called “Legally Brown”:
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RvMc6lvgn10)
It received fairly good ratings.
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well project lesotho is alive and kicking, it is 0.3% white there, i should be just fine. time will tell.
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@ Mary and mstoogood4yall
I am curious if since this recent “knockout games” incident has the talk shifted towards troubled youth or is it business as usually and they are now trying to sweep it under the rug?
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@ Sharina: Where this last incident is concerned they say he has bipolar disorder. But it seems he is getting the book thrown at him (white boy). I think the authorities are dealing with him, as they should.
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@mary burrell
I hope so.
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@ mary
I finally watched watermelon man last night and rofl, it was funny how his wife was acting all caring for the black struggle but once he turned black she didn’t want anything to do with him. the way he raced the bus and once he turned black he got stopped and ppl kept saying we know u stole something… we just gotta figure out what. bhahwwah.
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also, getting into the nitty gritty of what is ebonics vs. slang vs. dialect, my co-writer is quite into making some ‘chapbooks’ up or something, to help young AA students, that is one stat no one is talking about, my angle is IQ is skewed, not quite on the ‘ebonics as ESL’ bandwagon but Oakland certainly crystallized opinions or polarized i reckon.
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Is the Media scripted ? lol
(http://www.ebaumsworld.com/video/watch/83754317/)
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never was a fan of ‘i’m fixing to,’ i guess that’s future imperfect tense? i’m about to
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@mstoogood4yall: That movie is classic, my daddy God rest him loved that movie. I am glad you enjoyed it. Happy New Year.
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Happy New Year, Everyone.
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@ v8driver: Happy 2014.
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Thank you Mary!!
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Love to all. I wish you a happy, free, fair and equal New Year.
(Ever the optimist…)
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Happy new year to u too mary, its not yet 12 here lol,
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@ all especially miss mary b. happy new year
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“drawing” is my favorite word right now, i called miss lesotho twice today you know me being me have things arranged ahead of time, but she dumped me to the bit bucket and then an american woman answered the phone, i think that’s on hold for now, anyway
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it was like very pink floyd, hello this is america calling are we getting through? they keep hangning up
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idk maybe it was the 00 in front? idk she called back from some other number, ugh, i hate where i live and i think you’re supposed to eat and sleep sometimes too, not sure
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