I am old enough to remember 2003. Journalism ain’t what it used to be! Back then the reporting on the Iraq War was held to the highest standards. But now 19 years later with the Ukraine War it is sad to see how far journalism has sunk.
But there is still hope if the US and UK press follow these steps (the more the better):
- Take the case for war at face value. Report it in loving detail. Run articles that explain it. Interview those who support it, especially any expert who argues the war is just. For balance, run op-eds that offer only mild criticism. Articles that disprove the case for war should be killed or buried on page A16.
- Rely on official sources of information – meaning high government officials of the aggessor state. Report their words as authoritative. After all, might makes right! It does for the US, UK and Israel, so why not Mother Russia too? And besides, you do not want to lose access to important officials by making them look like liars. Why would they lie? Be a stenographer to power!
- Interview retired generals – of the aggressor nation, of course. Let them offer their insightful analysis.
- Embed with the invasion force. That way you can see the war for yourself up close. Be an eyewitness to history! Write about the brave men in uniform. Glorify their weapons.
- Dehumanize the enemy. They are unworthy victims. Use words like “collateral damage”, praise the amazing accuracy of modern weapons. Never ever show their wounded children. Present their violent extremists as representative, their leaders as dangerous. Do not talk to grandmothers or refugees. If refugees start appearing in Western nations, or, *gasp*, the US, do not talk to them but instead talk to politicians Concerned For the Security of the US. Whatever you do, do not make the victims seem “just like us”. They should never inhabit the same pronoun as the audience: never “us”, always “them”.
- Do not report protests against the war. Or at least make the protesters seem like dangerous radicals. Or some strange, fringe element. Certainly not anyone a Serious Person would ever want to be seen with.
- Do not report on war crimes. Except of course those committed by the enemy, Ukraine in this case. Certainly do not run stories on whether the president is a war criminal. Unthinkable! Double standards must be maintained! Keep the audience in the dark about international law or downplay it. Therefore:
- Make it about effectiveness not morality. Wars can be quagmires but never immoral. You do not want to sound like some pie-in-the-sky, soft-headed lefty. You want to sound hard-headed, practical, worldly. Talk about how the aggressor can do better. That is what matters most, after all.
Of course I am being sarcastic. But it is galling to see that the US press knows perfectly well how to report a war – when the victims are White and not at the wrong end of Anglo or Israeli power.
– Abagond, 2022.
See also:
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abagond, abagond, you really don’t get it.
The purposes of the Iraq reporting and Ukraine reporting are essentially the same. GAE (Globalist American Empire) pro-war propaganda. The first attempted to justify an unnecessary war in Iraq (based on false claims of WMD) and the second is attempting to get American (and world) citizens, most of whom have no idea where Ukraine even is, to want to start a war with Russia that very few ordinary people want.
Granted, control of the media for propaganda purposes has been going on for quite some time. The sinking of the Lusitania was used to get the US into World War I, despite the fact that it was carrying weapons and ammunition to the British. The Germans had attempted to run warnings in all American newspapers, next to the cruise line ads for the Lusitania, but most large US newspapers (like the New York Times) refused to do so.
What is so shocking about the current Ukraine coverage is how blatantly one-sided it is. You’d expect there would be some journalists allowed to make the case that Ukraine should never have been offered NATO membership and should be made to stop shelling Russians in the Donbass, but no one in the MSM can mention that and keep their jobs now apparently. There’s no attempt to show both sides of the complex story, only propaganda to tug at the heart strings and try to get people to sign up for a conflict that could easily lead to WWIII.
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It’s a funny old world when biff makes more sense than Abagond! This war is the dress rehearsal for WWIII. All the actors are making sure they know their lines.
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@gro Jo
But it works well as a critique on 2003 journalism.
I remember the BBC, reporting in disgust when terrorists blew up the Baghdad water supply. ‘How could those evil terrorists be so careless about the well-being of Iraqi civilians?’ was the message of the invading national state broadcaster.
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Abagond
Tell me . Is the AP photo from Beirut? I see airconditioners in the buildings.
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@ Joe
It is a picture of Kiev, Ukraine on February 25th 2022:
https://apnews.com/article/russia-ukraine-volodymyr-zelenskyy-vladimir-putin-boris-johnson-joe-biden-5a433ebe7f9cbc9f299b3795de895147
But yes, it going to look more and more like Beirut or Aleppo the longer the war goes on.
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I like how trump the first American president to be impeached twice
The First time involving the very country now being invaded by Russia
Called the dictator putin a genius
And how is the invasion going
Russian soldiers not even being told they were going to war .
Civilians targeted and killed
A forty mile caravan of tanks and trucks and weapons ,stalled some because of feul shortages ,now a sitting duck for unkraine miltary.
Unprecedented sanctions causing the Russia ruble to be worth .000 something
Numerous major banks and other companies catastrophic decline in value
Entire Russia economy isolated from Europe and America – the so called “west”
No banking no visa Mastercard apple twitter Facebook etc
Speaking of the “west” the African continent is in the western hemisphere as well but ,we seeing how africans fleeing Ukraine are treated versus the “spite” people
I definitely don’t have the sympathy or admiration the white media would like to think we all should share.
Hey biff
It’s real simple maybe you don’t have the capacity to comprehend
What goes around comes around,you will reap what you sow,
The law of Karma applies to everything and everyone even if you don’t understand it or like it.
And yes it applies to all white people no exceptions
BTW one of lies used to justify the invasion was the threat of border nations joining nato
Now Sweden and Finland two countries that never would even considered it not to mention Ukraine are begging to be let in.
Yeah putin and the Russian oligarchs are geuises
Said by a American oligarch who should be in jail and dead.
Cause on the inside if you snitch or mess with childern
You get taken out ,no discussion no warning you just get done.
But apparently the racist white American population is above even the law of crime.
Well the littlest biological organism rattled the cage they built but I think thier reaction might finally put them in thier place.
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The mistreatment that Africans and Middle-Easterns trying to flee the war in Ukraine are getting at the border to some neighbor countries, is beyond my understanding.
Racism and discrimination make no pause even in the midst of such human tragedy. Incredible!
And this racist bias is also affecting the way some reporters format the news from there.
Have we humans descended so low?
See an interesting analysis from Trevor Noah,
( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sgHQknJnuRk )
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https://www.rudaw.net/english/world/28022022
https://www.nbcnews.com/think/opinion/ukraine-russia-conflict-highlights-racist-double-standard-ncna1290822
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https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/mar/02/civilised-european-look-like-us-racist-coverage-ukraine
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The (2003) Iraq war (U.S. / NATO) was illegal and not approved by the U.N. It is considered a crime of aggression….Yet no sanctions, condemnations, or repercussions by anyone.
The “West” has been provoking China for a while now….this has led to the Chinese beefing up their army and setting up overseas bases—making life difficult for the rest of us living in the region. Had the U.S. left China alone—we (rest of Asia) would not be in this tense situation.
But…if Russia is willing to occupy U.S. attention—-it means we Asians will be better off.
Should this mean that I would want to cheer on for Russia? and a new “cold war”—just so the U.S. war machine does not turn back to the East……?……
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“Russian soldiers not even being told they were going to war .
Civilians targeted and killed
A forty mile caravan of tanks and trucks and weapons ,stalled some because of feul shortages ,now a sitting duck for unkraine miltary.”
Wow! I have one question for you, what is the Kool-Aid flavor you are drinking?
If the Russians are as incompetent as the propaganda you parrot claims, why have the Ukrainians failed to strafe that convoy?
Has it occurred to you that the Russians have their own style of making war and that the pundits pontificating about lack of fuel or whatever, are just making sh*t up?
Putin is a ‘dictator’ elected by the Russian people who enjoys a 69% approval rating from the voters, Biden can’t claim even 50% on that score.
Please tell me why every time US tv shows wrecked Russian military vehicles they never show the dead Russian soldiers who were, presumably, driving said vehicles?
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Gro jo,
I noticed you didn’t mention or address a few other points.
But the big one is targeting civilians.
But I guess Im like a passive African American that will follow a racist white preacher to my death by accepting that this particular Kool aid (American flavored drink) is actually posion or in this case lies
Cause I can’t think of figure it out for my self.
Okay you explain to us how
Trump was correct ,Putin is a genius
Invading a smaller niegbor country based lies and seriously damaging your own countries economy.
What ,you mean white Europeans esp the Americans lie and destort the media to proteay a certain narrative,
You don’t say ,atonishing ,I never would guess that.
Oh and I am never wrong about anything
Because I know everything,even though I don’t need to
There happy now.
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The claim that the Russians are targeting civilians is a lie.
They agreed to let civilians flee Mariupol and other areas they surrounded, did the US military even try to do the same when it invaded Iraq, Afghanistan, Vietnam or Korea?
The Russians aren’t going to let ‘civilians’ like “the Azov Regiment of the National Guard” slip through their fingers masquerading as ‘civilians’.
It takes two sides to come to an agreement. influenced by what you read in the press, you lay all the blame at the feet of the Russians.
I understand where you’re coming from, I only urge you to look at both sides.
In the Russia thread I provided 3 links where you can find different, pro-Russian, narratives on this business, check them out and if you’re still convinced you are right, than that would be fine by me.
“Invading a smaller niegbor country based lies and seriously damaging your own countries economy.”
When that neighbor allows itself to be used as NATO’s stalking horse, instead of declaring neutrality in the NATO vs Russia conflict it should have anticipated what ended up happening. Let’s not pretend that only Russia attacks its neighbors in its self interest. I’ll give you 2 examples of the US doing the same: “Navassa Island (/nəˈvæsə/; French: l’île de la Navasse; also La Navasse, La Navase; Haitian Creole: Lanavaz) is a small uninhabited island in the Caribbean Sea. Located northeast of Jamaica, south of Cuba, and 40 nautical miles (74 km; 46 mi) west of Jérémie on the Tiburon Peninsula of Haiti, it is subject to an ongoing territorial dispute between Haiti and the United States, which administers the island through the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service.[1]
The U.S. has claimed the island since 1857, based on the Guano Islands Act of 1856.[2] Haiti’s claim over Navassa goes back to the Treaty of Ryswick in 1697 that established French possessions in mainland Hispaniola, that were transferred from Spain by the treaty[3] as well as other specifically named nearby islands. Its 1801 constitution claimed several nearby islands by name, among which Navassa was not enumerated, but also laid claim to “other adjacent islands”, which Haiti maintains included Navassa. The U.S. claim to the island, first made in 1857, asserts that Navassa was not included among the unnamed “other adjacent islands” in the Haitian Constitution of 1801. Since the Haitian Constitution of 1874, Haiti has explicitly named “la Navase” as one of the territories it claims, and maintains that it has been claimed as part of Haiti continuously since 1801.[4][5][6][7] Médéric Louis Élie Moreau de Saint-Méry, who was a member of the French Parliament best known for his publications on Saint-Domingue (now the Republic of Haiti), referred to la Navasse as the “small French island of Saint-Domingue” in 1798.[8][9][10]”
“Guantanamo Bay Naval Base (Spanish: Base Naval de la Bahía de Guantánamo), officially known as Naval Station Guantanamo Bay or NSGB, (also called GTMO, pronounced Gitmo as an acronym, by the U.S. military[1]) is a United States military base located on 45 square miles (117 km2) of land and water[2] on the shore of Guantánamo Bay at the southeastern end of Cuba. It was first leased by the United States for use as a coaling station and naval base in 1903 and is the oldest overseas U.S. naval base.[3] The lease was $2,000 in gold per year until 1934, when the payment was set to match the value in gold in dollars;[4] in 1974, the yearly lease was set to $4,085.[5]
Since taking power in 1959, the Cuban communist government has consistently protested against the U.S. presence on Cuban soil, arguing that the base “was imposed on Cuba by force” and is illegal under international law. Since 2002, the naval base has contained a military prison, for alleged unlawful combatants captured in Afghanistan, Iraq, and other places during the War on Terror.[6] Cases of torture of prisoners[7] by the U.S. military, and their denial of protection under the Geneva Conventions, have been criticized.[8][9]”
I don’t recall any of the fake moralists on this blog protesting the US occupation of the territories of these 2 smaller neighbors.
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As for damaging Russia’s economy, I urge you to read this article and tell me why you think it’s wrong: (https://thesaker.is/how-russia-will-counterpunch-the-u-s-eu-declaration-of-war/)
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@gro jo i was wondering about ukraine’s air capabilities, lately, indeed
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@jeff elberfeld, hey jeff!
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“The claim that the Russians are targeting civilians is a lie.
They agreed to let civilians flee Mariupol and other areas they surrounded, did the US military even try to do the same when it invaded Iraq, Afghanistan, Vietnam or Korea?”
The US certainly didn’t during the Siege of Fallujah in Iraq. In 2004, US taxpayer dollars funded a variety of atrocities in Fallujah including sniping unarmed women, children, men and elders on the streets.
Snipers also targeted the wounded, medics and doctors in ambulances and at the entrances of hospitals.
Journalist, Dahr Jamail in a Truthout article describes some of weapons and tactics used by the US during the siege:
https://truthout.org/articles/james-mattis-is-a-war-criminal-i-experienced-his-attack-on-fallujah-firsthand/
Domestic US propaganda is so all-enveloping that most US citizens have no idea they are afloat in a sea of lies. Alternative media outlets in the US that don’t repeat the “official narratives” laid out by government/corporations have been systematically:
❍ bought off (ex: Democracy Now)
❍ subject to hostile takeovers (ex: The Real News Network)
❍ defunded (ex: numerous community radio stations throughout the US)
❍ de-platformed by social media companies (ex: Mint Press)
It’s worth noting that I had to search to page 11 of Google to find the Truthout article quoted above. Since most people rarely go beyond page 1, burying articles by independent journalists like Dahr Jamail deep in the bowels of Google is a form of official silencing.
Yet, there are still Americans who pepper their political discussions with phrases like “our democracy”, “our free press” or my personal favorites, “creeping authoritarianism / totalitarianism / fascism”.
They don’t seem to realize the “isms” they decry are well past the “creeping” stage in the US and in full gallop.
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“The claim that the Russians are targeting civilians is a lie.”
The Russians bombing of Ukraine has caused a lot of collateral damage including plenty of dead civilians. That’s what happens in war.
The American military has a history of doing the same thing. 200,000 dead citizens in Iraq ect.
If the Russians are able to straighten out their logistics that might be able to take the country. Right now they seem preety bogged down and the Ukrainians are putting up a good fight.
The Ukrainians have had “Western” training and some of their military hardware is better then what the Russians have. They are dug in and it’s a lot harder for the Russians to pry them out.
The propaganda is heavy on both sides. I dought the Ukrainians have killed the 11,000 Russians that they claim or destroyed the amount Russian tanks, apc’s, planes ect.
What makes this war different is the amount of “citizen journalism” picked up by cell phones and spread on Tok Tok and instagram. You can watch the war on real time.
I think it possible that this war spreads to neighboring countries and NATO gets involved militarily beyond the weapons and intelligence that they are sharing with the Ukrainians now.
Sweden and Finland both want to join NATO which is just going to add fuel to the fire.
I think the world as we know has changed and I am rethinking my retirement, my investments, and where I plan live ect.
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(https://youtu.be/Zna1r0rpr8A)
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(https://youtu.be/sgHQknJnuRk)
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(https://youtu.be/-ji9s-vpA4g)
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“If the Russians are able to straighten out their logistics that might be able to take the country. Right now they seem preety bogged down and the Ukrainians are putting up a good fight.”
Right. Some talking head on tv says the Russians are bogged down it must be so. The Russian army learned nothing from its long history of invading and occupying nations. They were not part of the Soviet army that stopped the German army at the gates of Moscow, pursued them to Berlin and smashed them there. We don’t know what Putin’s plan is except in broad outlines.
1) Disarm Ukraine and make it neutral as the USSR did to Finland after WWII.
2) Punish politicians and military leaders responsible for the war based on the
claim of attempted genocide against the peoples of LDNR.
3) Force Ukraine to give up all claims on Crimea.
4) Recognize the autonomy or independence of LDNR territories.
Putin’s armies have encircled most of the Ukraine’s major cities at the cost of 500 lives, if Putin is to be believed. That doesn’t sound like an army that’s bogged down. The Russians could level the Ukrainian cities they encircle, it seems to me, they are waiting for the Ukrainians to come to their senses and realize that NATO won’t be starting WWWIII for their sake.
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I posted three videos all by African Americans
One by Marc Hill of the Black news network
One by Trevor noah of the daily show and
A third by a youtuber call Prof Black truth.
Of the 3 Trevor noah shows a clear contrast
But the most disturbing is the third in which African american Joyce Reid advices African and other non white people to stay home and be silent about how racist the Ukrainians and other europeans are.
To me this stark contrast is illustrated in the article afrofem included in her post.
To be honest I was not as informed as I should have been of how racist white media is esp in europe and the utter cruelty of the American miltary and thus much of the American populace.
However I’m seeing the same larger pattern occur again just like the last major world event the covid pandemic.
This time is the nuclear existential threat sennerio.
If thier is a nuclear war everyone will die.
If thier is a nuclear war ,its all gone everyones future everyone’s tomorrow
Right
Will I have a problem and its personal
I have no family and no friends and I live in a city where in most parts there are zero Black businesses, but there are majority Black population’s in the worse and poorest neighbourhoods which also just happen to have the most Christian church’s, where I can also regularly hear African Americans referring to each
Other as n—ger and b—h but all “believe in” a white male Christian god in who’s Bible in condones and even instructs on slavery and how to keep and treat slaves – other human beings held against the will for life to serve you.
And I think
Every day I can almost guarantee I will only see white people or improvrished Black people with exceptions but as a general rule.
And I think it would certainly seriously impact white civilization perhaps even destroy it , and I’m finding hard not to see how that would be a bad thing or make a difference in my life.
As many times as I have been threatened with violent death ,as I watch countless daily murders by white people against innocent harmless Black people or the stark fact that many if not most Black people don’t care about other Black people and have the same type and degree of hatred for Black the white people have.
Yeah I don’t care about the Russians the urkrainains nor the africans being mistreated by them,why are you in a cold northern country with people who have repeatedly shown thier hatred for you?
Nor a good percentage of african Americans much Less people outside my Phenotypic group.
I only care about truth and reason and of course as much as I am able myself.
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“”As many times as I have been threatened with violent death ,as I watch countless daily murders by white people against innocent harmless Black people or the stark fact that many if not most Black people don’t care about other Black people and have the same type and degree of hatred for Black the white people have.
I have absolutely no doubt you’ve seen this most of your life. There are many Black people in America overflowing with self-hatred. Most of their self-hatred is expressed outwardly in also hating anyone who looks just like them.
It is a sad fact of Black life in the US.
However, I disagree that most Black people don’t care about other Black people. If that was true, millions of Black people would not protest in the streets, stand in ridiculously long lines to vote or otherwise resist White supremacist BS at every turn.
It is all too easy to sink into cynicism and give up on people. That is why American society is structured the way it is. Those people who benefit from ordinary people giving up, keeping their heads down or looking the other way hammer us with emotional and mental beat downs every day.
The psychological and emotional warfare directed at Black people in America has produced a lot of casualties. You’ve seen it and had to deal with it first hand.
Yet, when all I see is the darkness of anti-Black racism, I think of my maternal grandmother who witnessed numerous acts of anti-Black violence, dealt with self-hating Black people, worked 14 hour days running a business with my grandfather, and raised a family, I take heart.
I realize if she could endure all she endured and remain a whole, loving human being, I know have no excuse. If she could laugh, mentor, help lead a church and care so much about other people in her community, then I can too.
The people who keep anti-Blackness going want Black people to give up. They want us to give up on striving for a better life. They want us to throw ourselves off cliffs in despair. Most of all, they want us to give up on caring for one another.
In that, they’ve been successful with a sizeable minority of the Black population—but not most.
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Azov militia
(https://youtu.be/fy910FG46C4)
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@anon
Yep putin was right there are neo-nazi in the Ukraine
And while “west” is against putin’s invasion
It’s reporting and policies clearly support neo nazi
Therefore the choice for me is clear , don’t really care about Ukrainians or Russians ,and this is yet another confirmation of how racist white people are in general and esp europeans.
But thier are a lot of black people manipulated to care about white europeans while ignoring abuse and exploitation by them.
Also in terms of the suffering of the Ukrainians and Russians
They are both a racist imperialist minded populations that cause as much harm as they are now experiencing.
But you rarely think of reaping what you sow or Karma when it comes to white racist people.
So when I see thier cities bombed or thier economies wrecked,
I remember if they are black no one cares including most Black people.
@afrofem
Sorry details are important
I don’t want to go off topic but
Zero is related to all.
At one time slavery was made to apply exclusively to all black people
Many of the pathologies I witness esp the slurs are expressed and applied exclusively to all black people.
Here in Los angles I know of numerous areas where thier is zero normal functioning activities esp businesses owned and staffed by Black people.
Bottom line not all but definitely most African and African Americans and the majority of other Black and brown people.
Or what percentage of african Americans are still Christians a religion forced on them through slavery ,it endorses slavery and the image of the god looks nothing like them?
What percentage of my family?
“Domestic US propaganda is so all-enveloping that most US citizens have no idea they are afloat in a sea of lies.”
Quite true and yet I am afloat with abundant sources just like you that counter the domaint narrative
I hardly had to try to find view a post a links to 3 videos 2 of which are by famous African Americans.
Your post detailing an example of the extreme double standard jolted me briefly
And made me confront the fact the reason no one cares about your example and numerous others is because most, not all but most people esp black people don’t care.
And a lot could be done very easily but just like a homeless african Americans
No one including most of them cares.
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@ mbeti
Details are indeed important.
Black people you’ve encountered in LA are not: all / most / many Black people. Even the term “Black people” covers a wide, diverse group of people from many backgrounds in the US alone.
From what I’ve read, plus conversations with relatives who were based in LA, the most engaged Black people in LA moved north or east ( back to the South) during the 1990s and early 2000s. They were escaping rapidly rising housing prices and degraded schools.
Other Black people were pushed out by gentrification, a fancy word for White people invading Black neighborhoods for cheap housing with the help of banks, police and city hall.
If you have stopped caring, it is not a leap for you to believe other people have also stopped caring.
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someone pointed out that the arming of Ukraine, (sending weapons and/or money) is like arming the azov militia….?……what would that mean for the future stability of Europe? — after all…..ISIS was not good for the Middle East…….
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odd to say almost anecdotal, ~
https://www.quora.com/Which-was-a-more-repugnant-act-by-leaders-the-1943-Bengal-Famine-the-Holodomor-the-Irish-Potato-Famine-or-the-Great-Chinese-Famine
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As usual, it’s probably just me, but i’m able to envision a high level planning mission before this shindig ‘rolled out’; someone had to have asked ‘and civilians?’.
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A more nuanced view of the conflict. It’s a bit long but worth the watch.
(https://youtu.be/Mu19_rlwHgY)
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Hello v8driver! I hope you are fine! 🙂
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@ Michael Baker
Creepy words, creepy words!
Or maybe, subtly wise, perceptive warnings.
What do you mean by “the world as we know has changed“? Do you think that something deep and dangerous can evolve out of this crisis, and can affect much larger portions of humankind?
In Europe some people are already preparing themselves for the radioactive fallout coming from nuclear explosions. See https://edition.cnn.com/2022/03/14/business/potassium-iodide-pills-demand-surge/index.html
Remember those words:
Armageddon…
Apocalypse…
End of times…
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@Micheal Baker
…Not too sure I would call it “nuanced”…?….after all…its 2 white men talking about a European war….how much of a “nuance” can one expect?…..
….and frankly—equating “democracy/freedom” as a “western value”—-when the U.S. is incarcerating POC and depriving them of the right to vote—when White Supremacists kill “others” in domestic terrorism, when police and army are overrun with zealous “right-wingers”, when the judicial system supports racism and discrimination—–one has to ask—-of what “value” is (U.S.) democracy?
Its simply a system run by the elites for the elites that promotes the fairytale that its a valued “democracy”/free-world…..
….instead, this talk drives home the point of the underlying “supremacy” and hypocrisy of the issue…….
(https://youtu.be/B0WQ64UD2Lg)
start at the 30 min mark for relevance….the beginning is mostly about the history of the region (Ukraine)…….
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Correct
Maybe it’s if your not directly impacted and even if your are
You still look at the world through the lens of a stable secure free society.
Even if your not a white male ,in most current western European
Societies you can move think and act freely
And this is also true in most non European societies as well.
It’s only the catastrophic anomalies that attract our attention
As afrofem pointed out ,there are numerous equivalent tragedies occurred across the globe ,innocent civilians killed and displaced butt hese are ignored.
Most of the the world is peaceful and numerous places are rarely if ever reported in a positive view.
But if I see this bias ,how can I have sympathy or concern for certain people
Who can’t help but always be bias?
If some group of people harbours extreme hostility for other people inspite of repeated historical failure and humiliation
It stands to reason that they will inevitably bring violence and destruction apon themselves.
Such is what I see with Ukraine
They have a solid neonazi population in thier midst
Throughout Europe you see the rampant double standard treatment of non-Europeans esp africans and migrants.
You have here in America such a extreme contrast of rich and poor black and white that.
My concern for security and safety is founded a stable corruption and injustice.
I rotted and bloody house I’m trapped in ,if it fall
May if fall after I die ,thus I cosign corruption and injustice
While I’m alive and if am not immediately killed, improvised? but more free? Partly Avenged?
A gradual evolution of positive reform in which tragic and unfortunate things happen just not to me?
I still trying to figure it out.
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https://unherd.com/2022/03/the-truth-about-ukraines-nazi-militias/
https://en.respublica.lt/signs-of-neo-nazi-ideology-amongst-russian-mercenaries
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Lol, strange type of ‘evidence’ provided by the fake moralist regarding Nazis in both camps. The first link shows that without Azov thugs there would be no Ukrainian ‘democracy’. That article shows that they are the bully boys of rich and powerful people, the same is true of Zelensky, an actor plucked from central casting to play a role. I wonder if Nuland made him audition for the part as she did for a former prime minister? Calling Ukraine a democracy is a joke since that implies that the people rule there.
The second article is all about the Wagner group and the ideological proclivities of its leaders. It is clear from the article they are tools of the Kremlin, they don’t make policy. White supremacist ideas are prevalent on both sides of the conflict, an outcome of abandoning socialist ideas, does it mean they are the same? No. “While they may be useful now, in the event of the decapitation or evacuation of Ukraine’s liberal government from Kyiv, perhaps to Poland or Lviv, or more likely, in the event of Zelenskyy being forced by events to sign a peace deal surrendering Ukrainian territory, groups like Azov may find a golden opportunity to challenge what remains of the state and consolidate their own power bases, even if only locally.” That’s the tail wagging the dog, a clear admission that Zelensky isn’t really in charge just a puppet whose strings are pulled by the US and Azov movement types. One of Russia’s goals is to exterminate Azov movement types, I don’t see anything to object to, if they use Wagner group racists to do that job all to the good I say. Let them all meet in Valhalla.
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@Solitaire
interesting info.
Wagner group has been compared to Blackwater….?…U.S. mercenaries with similar supremacist ideology?…..
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Yep easy to just let them destroy each other.
But we know its wrong
How about WE NOT abandon socialist ideas!
I look at Russia and ask why
Why do they organise thier society so that one man rules them.
Why can’t they form a functional democracy?
Why are white europeans still embracing ideas and concepts that have only lead to thier defeat and scorn?
It’s easy to abandon them
Far harder to answer the questions harder still to effect change and implement solutions.
Even then ,I’m sorry but outside of your personal family and friends
I don’t think its humanly possible to feel anything more then general sadness and sympathy for the many different large groups of humans
Going through various different types and degrees of suffering.
Almost 8 billion ,please
let me put it on me – I have ,am currently, and will probably in the future go through some bad stuff I.e lost injury and suffering.
Do I want your sympathy or aid.
I am able to fend for myself.
No ,just your general human sympathy tempered by reason justice and the hope that somehow someday .
What it means to be human is that we all always treat each other and ourselves
Fairly and justly ,that our species is superior In the only way that matters
How well we treat others.
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@ anon
Yes, I think it’s probably true of Blackwater as well as similar groups in many other White-majority nations. White supremacists have infiltrated the military and quasi-military/mercenary groups (as well as the police) intentionally.
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“Why can’t they form a functional democracy?”
Like the USA? You might find these articles by Cerise Castle enlightening.
(https://knock-la.com/tradition-of-violence-lasd-gang-history/)
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Re: Supremacist/ethno-religio-nationalists
Ideologies that need hate, othering, fear,…to exist, will always be toxic and self destructive—-the Burmese Buddhists along with the govt encouraged hate towards the Rohingya—but when that was exhausted, they needed another target. Now they have turned to other Burmese.
The same with ISIS and other “Purists” ideologies in Islam—more Muslims have been killed by this ideology than others.
It may seem expedient for Ukranians and Russians to promote such people now—but there will be blowback/repercussion….and we have examples of this in the West too—-9/11 and Al -Qaeda, or the rise of the far-right and domestic terrorism….
@gro jo
I have to disagree—the tendency of people and nations to assume “their way” is the only way/right way —is a form of “supremacy”. That is what colonialism was based on. (and also American exceptionalism and Manifest Destiny) Instead, we should promote diversity and tolerance—that is how we can make compassionate societies. Each community/nation and generation has the right to choose its political organizational system….that also means they also have the right to re-organize the system when it no longer suits them.
The principle or foundation for political organization is not in the “label” of the system but in the “intent”/purpose. Any system that is intended for the benefit and happiness of all members/constituents is a good one (constructive, win-win)—any system that privileges one group over all others is bad (destructive, win-lose).
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We must find a way to remove isolation ,
In this era little is hidden as it was in the past.
We all globally see each other, how we truly act rather than just what we say
And the results.
I still think we will make it ,a few more thousands lost and we will all learn and know the futility of certain ways of living and organising our societies
Or we might partially or fully destroy ourselves and some other species may write our epitaph.
It’s interesting to compare the range and scope of death – the individual, the shared group ,nations , our entire species
In some ways it’s all the same
And yet it pushes beyond the capacity of any individual human .
If 10 years from now wow
If I and or we don’t make it ( like a lot of people anyway/already didn’t)
I enjoyed this journey it was an honor and a privilege to have been born.
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anon, not sure what you are disagreeing with. It would be nice if you quoted what I wrote that you disagree with, otherwise, it sounds like you are using my name to preach your version of the gospel.
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https://www.oryxspioenkop.com/2022/02/defending-ukraine-listing-russian-army.html
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qualitative analysis demands metrics, people! or categorization leads to calamity
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@gro jo
Apologies—I did not notice the quotes—you were quoting someone else about democracy….my mistake.
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From a black left perspective
(https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=pPJ3PjohBds)
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Black people don’t or shouldn’t really care about Ukraine. How they’re treating the blk ppl in the Ukraine ?
(https://youtu.be/d5Ufs9_O5ik)
There is not a chance in hell that I’d sign up and fight for them and I don’t wanna hear any person talk about how violent blk ppl supposedly are when you look at what’s going on in the Ukraine.
Also
https://qph.cf2.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-0a4fcc457e5340855d8ce832da597ace-pjlq
The money comes real quick when they are white…..dunnit ?
And if these Ukraineans think they can come to the USA and treat black Americans with the same contempt they treat black ppl in the Ukraine ? Then it’s gonna go REAL LEFT. Black Americans ain’t gonna just punch them in face……I’ll just leave it at that.
They won’t be able to join the police force right away because that’s what a lot of cowardly white supremacists do to get government and miltary protection.
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Originally Posted By Mbeti
Real talk. I think it was Malcolm X or Khalid Muhammad who said “I don’t want black people to hate white people. I want black people to stop lovin them”
So when I read about black people looking to sign up and fight for Ukraine ?
You know sometimes you can lose hope when you read stuff like that..
I mean they have some hardcore OG white supremacists in Ukraine and Russia
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We have hard-core OG white supremacists here ,and married to supreme courts justices.
Black people esp American but not exclusively can represent the highest ideals and expectations of what in means to be human.
And while we may prefer not to observe or acknowledge
We can also represent the lowest
But even in our most subservient position among humans we occupy a unique position
We where enslaved and then had it exclusively apply to us for life,
Also deliberately stripped of any knowledge or affinity with original languages and cultures as well as a consistent propaganda that our languages cultures as well as humanity itself was bad negative evil as well as non-existent because we are black.because black itself is bad.
Yet even then they could not restrain themselves from repeatly having sex with us to this very day.
We are not considered to possess and naturally good or beautiful attributes
Many of our people esp females actually believe thier natural hair is ugly
That they can’t grow it long or that it’s texture is harsh because that can’t comb it or style to look like the same people who enslaved and oppress them
With thier combs designed for thier hair types.
And so spend excessive time energy and money trying to hide modify and imitate the length texture and color of the the very people who enslaved and oppress them.
And many view the objectively meanest ugliest population of humans
As the nicest most beautiful most worthy of marriage esp so thier childern will not be as black as they are.
About 98 percent of african Americans work for white people.
There are zero Black owned business in most population centers where African Americans currently live because about a hunderd years ago when we had established independent self sufficient African Americans communities
Mob after mob of white people organized with the full support of all sectors of the government and massacred and burned each and every community.
And 99.9 percent of black people including this blogs owner and author
Worship and embrace a religion forced on them through slavery and instructing that slavery is okay ,thier blackness a curse ,the image of evil looks similar to them and thier savior is in the image of the people that enslave and oppress them I.e all God angels saints white / the devil demons witches black.
Oh and because we where only officially allowed to be entainers
We orginated and dominate the American music industry (as well as sports ,acting anything requiring raw talent) where
The latest most lucrative and innovative form of music again invented by us
Now has a deep cultural hypocrisy built into it
Where you can’t slander homosexuals but referring to all black people by a slur or all females by a slur is required if your honest and authentic.
Meanwhile white people esp female have no problem with a slur for all women
And just want to partispate openly in using a slur for all black people.
Notice no significant slur for all white people or all men nope.
I still regularly use slur words esp in tight situations with my fellow humans
But there just a few of them used only to express anger and frustration or humour and they are easily deconstructed
But a guess once your born into a society and culture you would never have chosen you gain bad habits not easily addressed.
It’s easy to get passport
Quite another thing to retrace your ancestry and fill in the blanks
And yet another still to adopt a new language ,and justly banish the lonesome former tongue
With little hope of your people your community
Aspiring to ,let alone assist.
Well at least I became a atheist before I new what it was
Got a unknown headstart maybe.
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http://defensepoliticsasia.com/Ukraine/
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@V8driver.
Defense Politics Asia reads like propaganda.
Maripol is a pile of rubble. Russia sending “relief” and opening “human corridors” after leveling it to eliminate “neo-nazis” isn’t humanitarian.
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Some good articles at Daily Kos about Ukraine. Interesting
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@ michael barker i just like the ‘wargame’ like little maps that seemed to come from some homegrown source, not proselytizing
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Mbeti said:
“What goes around comes around, you will reap what you sow,
The law of Karma applies to everything and everyone even if you don’t understand it or like it.”
Karma applies to the collective actions of an individual not of a group, race, or nationality (And includes actions in your past lives). Applying Karma to a group runs counter to the definition so I am not sure how you are applying it to the invasion of Ukraine.
Karma
The force generated by a person’s actions held in Hinduism and Buddhism to perpetuate transmigration and in its ethical consequences to determine the nature of the person’s next existence. Each individual is born with karma, the residual from past lives that must be resolved.
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Thank for your research and effort
Collective is just many individuals
If you can not see how the collective white population composed of many individuals brings on themselves the consequences of violence and racism
Then I must research and think until I can get you to understand or I find I am wrong.
As to Hinduism and Buddhism and the focus on the afterlife,
Will At least Hinduism has an answer to the before life question,something I don’t even see in European cultures and religion
Now I’m a atheist and therefore most of Hinduism and Buddhism is foolishness
But of all religions Buddhism appears the most powerful and effective as well as moral.
And I have little concern for my before or afterlife ,much less if such States even exist
But morality the consequences of your actions reaping what you sow.
I think it applies to all people all the time and
Here is the consequences
99 percent of the white European reporters blatantly ignore and disparage black people while only showing concern white people.
Now most Black people seem to be subservient to white people no matter how they are treated.
Me I directly experience this bais everyday all of my adult life,even from my own family.
But I see the lies faults and flaws ,
Indeed I am already healthier wealthy and more powerful that many of my brethren
As to Ukrainians and Russians, unlike many africans
I would never travel or want to visit ethier place or people
And therefore will be forever immune to thier abuse and scorn
And because of thier attitude to others and themselves
I have no sympathy for thier plight or suffering
To me it’s justice ,something I’ve heard many a white person say does not exist,
And deserved fate.
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life is dukkha, suffering, karma is localized, and is it an excuse, tanha, the root of all evil, or biological imperative,
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i guess you have to superimpose herd mentality too
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Does it get more ‘proxy war?’ I mean just like Vietnam except chicom advisers, ak47’s and SAM missiles, some tanks too.
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Last month I was criticizing the way authorities at the border of Ukraine and neighbor countries were treating Africans and people from certain backgrounds (South Asia, Middle East, etc) who wanted to leave the country. See https://abagond.wordpress.com/2022/03/02/how-to-report-on-the-ukraine-war/#comment-582400
I remain in the same moral position vis a vis this issue, but some recent developments have given me pause to think again.
First look at the following article that appeared at the BBC website, https://www.bbc.com/news/world-africa-60712913
That article points to the existence of young men in Africa who want rather go to the battlefield in Ukraine than to remain at their home countries, without hope of better days in their future.
This is incredible!
Some would like to join the Ukrainian military and others would prefer to fight for Russia. In any case they are betting their future there, in Europe. Maybe, they think, after the war they can remain in those countries, maybe even become naturalized citizens.
All this development should give all leaders in Africa food for thought, because it directly brings to the table the question of the how livable the continent has become after its independence from foreign powers.
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no its currently the nadir for africans pyschologically.
most africans are christain or muslim to religions that are intellectually and morally bankrupt and were forced on africans through aggression and enslavement ,that endorse slavery and whose god looks like thier enslaver and whose devil looks like them.
all other behaviors or pathologies follow logically for me.
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@ Mbeti
Not only Africans are leaving their comfort zone and joining the war effort for or against Ukraine.
I just learned that an international legion of foreign fighters is already helping the Ukraine army. A few of them are USA citizens. See ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UelJlIAkn4Y ).
This war is not yet raised to the status of a world war but, like in the two world wars of the last century, we have already people of many different nations finding a cause there and willing to fight for one or another party.
One notion that has lately come to my mind in the context of these events, is the idea of mercenary. Can we say that those foreign fighters are mercenaries? Or not, because many of them actually are fighting for a cause, a deeply assumed cause at their hearts? And what about those Africans who went there not because they want a payment in the form of money but because they expect to become residents or eventually citizens of an European country? Are they mercenaries?
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@ Munubantu
Well, going by the definition of “mercenary” used by the Geneva Convention, one of the criteria is the soldier cannot be “a member of the armed forces of a Party to the conflict.” Therefore, if a foreigner actually enlists in the Ukrainian or Russian military (which the BBC article you linked to indicated at least some of the African men were attempting to do), under the Geneva Convention that individual would not be classified as a mercenary. (See https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mercenary under the first subhead.)
)
In the broader sense of the term mercenary, as regarding their motives, I guess that’s more of a judgment call based on one’s own beliefs and sense of ethics.
Enlisting in the U.S. military (whether during wartime or peace) is one way that foreigners can often gain a fast-track to becoming citizens. That was the path to immigration my father-in-law used back in the 1950s, and it still continues today. This seems similar to those Africans who hope to gain citizenship in an European country by volunteering to fight on its side now.
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V8driver said,
“i just like the ‘wargame’ like little maps that seemed to come from some homegrown source, not proselytizing”
You will like this then.
(https://youtu.be/b_8JCf9jTQ8)
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also, it was russian advisors for the Migs, probably the SAM missiles, and other ‘20,000 foot view’ issues, etc.
you can learn all the history you want, letting jackasses and old, somewhat sick people run the kids after flagpoles and this is what you get
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