Rayshard Brooks (1993-2020) was a Black man in the US shot in the back by a White police officer in a Wendy’s restaurant parking lot in Atlanta – while the nationwide protests set off by the killing of George Floyd, an unarmed Black man killed by a White police officer, were still going on!
The mayor cried, the (White) police chief resigned, and a White woman burned down the Wendy’s. Garrett Rolfe, the killer cop, was fired, but was not charged with murder till after five days of protest.
On the night of June 12th 2020, Wendy’s, a fast-food restaurant, called the police saying that a car was “parked dead in the middle of the drive-thru” lane. Brooks was asleep at the wheel. Unable to wake him up, a Wendy’s employee told police, “I don’t know what’s wrong with him.” The police were able to wake him and get him to park to the side.
But that was only the beginning.
For over 40 minutes the police talked to him, gathering evidence for a DUI (drunk driving) arrest. Brooks was friendly, did not want to cause any trouble, offered to lock his car and walk to his sister’s house nearby. But once he blew into the breathalyzer machine and scored 108, the police arrested him for drunk driving.
Then all hell broke lose. Brooks tried to run, the police wrestle him to the ground. Brooks breaks free and runs for it, with one of the officer’s Taser (stun gun) in his hand. He runs across the parking lot, turns to shoot the Taser, then Rolfe, instead of using his own Taser, guns him down: BANG BANG BANG! Brooks falls with two bullets in his back.
Brooks was not a deadly threat to anyone. There was no reason to take his life.
Brooks was a husband and the father of three daughters, ages 1, 2, and 8, and a 13-year-old stepson. He was killed on the eve of his 8-year-old daughter’s birthday party. She was waiting for him in her party dress.
Officer Garrett Rolfe, 27, the same age as Brooks, has been with the Atlanta police department for over seven years. He has 13 complaints filed against him. The police depatment exonerated him of nine of them, sent him a written reprimand and an oral admonishment for two others, and for the other remaining one, use of force with a firearm in 2015, there is no conclusion recorded in his file. So here we are.
Devin Brosnan, the other officer at the scene, has no known disciplinary history. He was put on paid leave and charged with assault for standing on Brooks’ shoulder as he lay dying. He has turned state’s evidence, breaking the Blue Wall of Silence.
Black faces in high places: The Rev. James Woodall, head ot the Georgia chapter of the NAACP, said:
“while Atlanta is often called ‘the Black Mecca’, the Atlanta Police Department has a continued history of antagonising our communities.”
The mayor, the acting police chief, and the county prosecutor are all Black.
– Abagond, 2020.
See also:
- killer cops
- George Floyd
- Taser
- Tennessee v Garner (1985) – the Supreme Court case on fleeing suspects and use of force
- The Blue Wall of Silence
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Just
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I have always said this many times over. If you only hire black cops for black neighborhoods, across America the rate of black people killed by cops would drop, literally overnight!
How would i know this? White cops don’t kill other white people in white neighborhoods and it’s been proven that white cops kill other white people as a LAST resort and ONLY when they life is clearly threatened.
When it comes to black people, white cops shoot first and ask questions later, opposed to asking questions first ( with the white person having a deadly weapon in their hand ) and shooting only when they have no other choice!
But white people would call hiring and assigning black policemen and women to an entire city, that represents the racial demographics of its citizens, racist!
The irony that the majority of policemen and women that police black neighborhoods are white isn’t racist but black men and women from the community they’re from as policemen and women is racist is totally lost on white people.
white people would never do this, because it would mean less jobs for white people to not, “serve and protect” black people but “harass and arrest” black people.
And white people can’t have an influx of black people gainfully employed as police officers to server and protect their own communities, that would be just awful!
Hiring black people as cops from the community in which they’re from, would be the best strategy, being black people see other black people as humans beings, that are American citizens with rights.
This is because there’s no getting around inherent racial bias from white cops, because racial bias is hard wired into white people after being groomed by a white supremacist society, that tells them from when they’re children, that black people are dangerous criminals.
How can you expect a white person, that has been “trained” their entire life that black people are criminals, then expect them to not act on that thought process, after becoming policemen and women?
The majority of white people, have never come into contact with a black person their entire lives, then they’re assigned to police neighborhoods with an entire black population….yeah, that’ll go over really well….end sarcasm.
I also hate with a passion, when white people and even black people, say it comes down to “training”. “We need to have better trained police across America”
You can’t “train” a white person to not be a racist against black people, it’s a matter of white people choosing to not “act’ on their inherent racism. And there’s plenty of evidence, that white people rarely if ever, choose to NOT act on their inherent racism against black people.
This is because they never extend leniency or mercy to black people, when it comes to not deciding to arrest black people, whereas with other white people that look like them, they often choose to not arrest and be given the benefit of the doubt.
The one and ONLY thing that will stop black people from getting killed by white cops, is putting pressure on white police dept. to hire more black people to police black neighborhoods, where their from.
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@Sondis Black cops end up being worse than white cops. they have an image to uphold. Hiring more black cops will not stop the broken windows policing or the black quota. it will create a vaccuum where the cops that are brutalizing us have the same skin, thus making it a non-racial problem when it is. police are slave patrol. there is absolutely no reason they should still exist.
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@ DurtVanDutch
I’m not an American citizen but I think that if the police agent is not only Black but also from the same or close-by neighborhood, then it follows that he/she will be more careful in not provoking casualties from nothing.
Remember that those guys have family members in those same communities and, therefore, would fear retaliations against them when not conducting themselves properly in relation to people there.
I would expect them to behave properly under such circumstances.
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@Abagond: You left out where they kicked him as he was dying, and stood on his shoulders after they shot him.
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Reblogged this on Steph's Blog and commented:
This is so sad. So many Black men being murdered at the hands of the police and race soldiers.
May Mr. Rayshard Brooks rests in peace and in power.
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@Munubantu
One of the problems is that the police don’t live in the communities where they work.
The police in a way functions like a gang. It is like they all become blue no matter what race they are.
In order for community policing to work then all police officers would have to live there.
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RIP
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“@Sondis Black cops end up being worse than white cops. they have an image to uphold.’
This is false and an outright lie to say that black cops are worse than white cops that kill, harass and arrest black people.
Without a white racist overseer, from a racist culture within the police departments across America, there will be no pressure applied to black cops to conform to white racist ideology.
Therefore, black cops will be left to do what policing SHOULD be, which is to serve and protect the black community, not what it’s legacy has been since slavery, to harass, arrest and kill black people.
How many black cops have been in the news for killing black men? And how often?
How many black women have died at the hands of black cops?
I’ll do you one better….HOW MANY BLACK COPS HAVE KILLED BLACK CHILDREN???? I’ll help you out…NONE!
killing a child is the worst thing an adult human being can ever do! because a child is innocence…
And white cops have killed more black children, than black cops have killed white adults!!!
If your notion is true that black cops are worse than white cops, if they serve only black neighborhoods, then we would see black cops killing black people just the same as we see white cops killing black people.
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Rayshard Brooks on the criminal justice system.
(https://www.facebook.com/30042869909/posts/10158368796719910/?sfnsn=mo&d=n&vh=e)
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This incident should definitely be investigated by outside agencies. But I don’t think this case is as straightforward as people think.
People say that being shot in the back proves it was murder and, normally, I’d agree. But not necessarily. Things happen very fast in these types of incidents. People who’ve been in a fight are full of adrenaline and not thinking clearly. So these incidents have to be judged from the perspective of the officer in the situation not from the perspective of someone calmly sitting at home watching the video on their computer.
In this case, the suspect clearly looked over his shoulder and pointed the taser at the officer while he was running away. So his being shot in the back isn’t quite the same as if someone had been only running away. If shooting the suspect was an automatic reaction to having a gun shaped object pointed at him, I could see that.
Or did he consciously think being shot with a taser was potentially life threatening? Don’t be so quick to dismiss that. Suppose you have a carry permit, we get into an altercation and I point a taser at you. It’s non lethal, right? But if I taser you then you’re disabled. At which point I could calmly walk up to you, take your gun and shoot you in the head. That’s why an officer can not allow himself to be disabled by a violent suspect.
I’m not saying what should or shouldn’t happen in this case. I honestly don’t know. I’m just saying it’s not as straightforward as people think.
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For that crowd that is going on about, “Well he shouldn’t have run, or he shouldn’t have resisted arrest. All of y’all can go hug a pet monkey and walk on Legos barefoot. The truth is cops don’t shoot white folks. White folks, resist and even have confrontations with cops. They don’t get shot. A Black person will be shot for the mildest infractions. Law enforcement was not meant to protect and serve Black Americans.
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Monica:
“People say that being shot in the back proves it was murder and, normally, I’d agree. But not necessarily. Things happen very fast in these types of incidents. People who’ve been in a fight are full of adrenaline and not thinking clearly. So these incidents have to be judged from the perspective of the officer in the situation not from the perspective of someone calmly sitting at home watching the video on their computer.”
The individual that brought about murder charges against the racist white cop that killed a black man, while running away was by the Fulton County district attorney, Paul L. Howard Jr., not from people calmly sitting at home, watching from their computer.
Paul L. Howard Jr knowns the law of that county, more than anyone else in the country.
So there goes your false logic…
“In this case, the suspect clearly looked over his shoulder and pointed the taser at the officer while he was running away. So his being shot in the back isn’t quite the same as if someone had been only running away. If shooting the suspect was an automatic reaction to having a gun shaped object pointed at him, I could see that.”
I watched the entire hour long indictment video on youtube and at one point, Paul L. Howard Jr pointed out that the racist white cop that killed Rayshard Brooks by shooting him in the back, reached for his gun to shoot Rayshard Brooks, BEFORE HE AIMED THE STUN GUN BEHIND HIM!
So he was intent on shooting at Mr. Brooks, even before he even perceived any threat from Mr. brooks!
So the fact that you spoke on something, without knowing the facts, proves your ignorants. You’re so dead set at trying to take the side of your fellow white supremacist, you didn’t care enough to seek out the facts!
“Or did he consciously think being shot with a taser was potentially life threatening?”
So white cops can use a stun gun, ( because it’s supposedly an non-lethal weapon ) But if a black person points a stun gun in the direction of a white cop, it all of a sudden, becomes a LETHAL WEAPON!
The distinction of the weapon changes, depending on the race of the person holding the weapon!
“I’m not saying what should or shouldn’t happen in this case. I honestly don’t know. I’m just saying it’s not as straightforward as people think.”
So you claim to not know what should happen, yet you make it a point to give your fellow white supremacist the benefit of the doubt….
Black people, there are white supremacist racist agents in our midst…. tread carefully!
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White people don’t resist and have violent confrontations with cops and they don’t die or get shot. Dylan Roof shot Black parishioners, and was not killed. They took him to Burger King. Rayshard Brooks should not have been killed.
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@Sondis: Yep, I already peeped this white supremacist apologist. ✊🏿
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“Howard claimed Rolfe knew the taser Brooks took from him was not functional, as it had already been fired twice and thus was of no use when he shot Brooks twice in the back as he was running away.
The detail appears to underscore that Rolfe was apparently aware he was in no physical danger when he fatally shot Brooks. Cameras also captured Rolfe kicking Brooks as he was on the ground struggling for his life.”
https://www.theguardian.com/tv-and-radio/2020/jun/17/rayshard-brooks-charges-atlanta-police-officer-garrett-rolfe
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@ anon
“Howard claimed Rolfe knew the taser Brooks took from him was not functional, as it had already been fired twice and thus was of no use when he shot Brooks”
I wouldn’t say that. It’s very common for equipment to malfunction a time or two and then work unexpectedly. This is particularly true of electronics as I’m sure everyone has experienced this. However, this presupposes that was even a consideration. No one thinks things through in a high stress situation. They react automatically based on their training. Someone pointed a gun shaped object at him so he instinctively shot them.
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@ Sondis
You repeatedly referred to the officer as the “racist white cop” who “murdered” a black man. That’s very prejudicial. One could just as easily refer to Paul L. Howard Jr as the “racist black district attorney” who “falsely charged” a white police officer. Neither allegation has any merit without evidence.
reached for his gun to shoot Rayshard Brooks, BEFORE HE AIMED THE STUN GUN BEHIND HIM!”
There’s nothing wrong with an officer drawing their pistol when faced with a violent suspect.
“So white cops can use a stun gun, ( because it’s supposedly an non-lethal weapon )”
Yes. But I don’t know why mention “white cops” specifically. That’s true for any officer.
“But if a black person points a stun gun in the direction of a white cop, it all of a sudden, becomes a LETHAL WEAPON!”
No. It’s still a less lethal weapon. But an officer can’t allow a dangerous suspect to disable him.
Once again, I’m not sure why you’re making racial distinctions. These things are true regardless of the races involved.
“The distinction of the weapon changes, depending on the race of the person holding the weapon!”
No. Whether one has the authority to use a taser depends on the circumstances not the races. A police officer has the authority to taser a violent suspect. A violent suspect does not have the authority to taser a police officer.
“So you claim to not know what should happen, yet you make it a point to give your fellow white supremacist the benefit of the doubt….”
White supremacist? I’d have more respect for you if you’d called me a “hy motherfer”. Either way, you’re throwing a tantrum. You should be embarrassed to behave that way.
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@ Monica
So you gonna come onto this blog and tell Black people to behave ?
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Michael Barker
@ Monica
“So you gonna come onto this blog and tell Black people to behave?”
That’s white supremacists racists for you… Monica has the typical behavior of a racist.
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@Monica
Once he was running away he was no longer a “violent” or “dangerous” subject. So your theory begins to be moot.
@Michael
She reads as an “your imagining” racism type.
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The 2015 involved the cover up of him and fellow officers shooting a black man. The man did not die and none of the officers reported that they shot the man.
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wrong link.
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/jun/17/rayshard-brooks-shooting-police-officer-cover-up-accusations-garrett-rolfe
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“White supremacist? I’d have more respect for you if you’d called me a “hy motherfer”.”
Translation: The second example fits Monica’s stereotype of what a black person would say.
Also:
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@ Michael Barker
“So you gonna come onto this blog and tell Black people to behave ?”
I wasn’t talking to “black people”. I was talking to Sondis.
@ sharinalr
“Once he was running away he was no longer a “violent” or “dangerous” subject. So your theory begins to be moot.”
Dangerous criminals run from police all the time.
“She reads as an “your imagining” racism type.”
As opposed to a “racism is whatever I say it is” type?
@ Solitaire
I agree that using “tone” as an argument is a logical fallacy. However, I wasn’t using tone as an argument. I was pointing out that Sondis was making unfounded allegations as part of a tantrum.
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@Monica
“Dangerous criminals run from police all the time.” –Or people fearful of their life run from dangerous criminals who call themselves the police.
“As opposed to a “racism is whatever I say it is” type?”–You’re right. You do pass as a “racism is whatever I say it is” type.” All in all though it just seems the same thing with different wording. Though don’t let the data stats and all that other bit of information keep you in the dark.
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@ Sharinalr: Hey Sis, Hey👋🏿
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@ sharinalr
“Or people fearful of their life run from dangerous criminals who call themselves the police.”
Don’t say that. Someone may take it seriously and end up hurt because of it. People need to comply for their own safety as well as the officers’.
“You do pass as a ‘racism is whatever I say it is’ type.”
Not exactly what I meant.
“Though don’t let the data stats and all that other bit of information keep you in the dark.”
Which data?
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@Mary
Hey sis!! What’s good?
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@Monica
“Don’t say that. Someone may take it seriously and end up hurt because of it. People need to comply for their own safety as well as the officers’.”–Or I could just say what I want. Eventually violent criminals in blue will get the picture.
“Not exactly what I meant.”–But it was precisely what I meant.
“Which data?” –Shouldn’t it read “What data, stats, and all information?” Because I would prefer if you asked about the entirety of what I said and not the tad bit you want to. Though you might try reading the posts, links, sondis’s comment or google.
2 more posts, so make it count.
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@ Monica
“Either way, you’re throwing a tantrum. You should be embarrassed to behave that way.”
That’s still the tone argument. You’re scolding him and infantilizing him based on your interpretation of his tone.
His using the term “white supremacist” does not equate to “throwing a tantrum” in any way, shape, or form. But if you can label his tone as a tantrum, that helps you to be dismissive of his argument.
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@ Monica
On further reflection….
These are the three times Sondis referred to you as a white supremacist:
“You’re so dead set at trying to take the side of your fellow white supremacist, you didn’t care enough to seek out the facts!”
“So you claim to not know what should happen, yet you make it a point to give your fellow white supremacist the benefit of the doubt….”
“Black people, there are white supremacist racist agents in our midst…. tread carefully!”
Substituting the term you said that you would have respected more yields these results:
“You’re so dead set at trying to take the side of your fellow hnky motherfer, you didn’t care enough to seek out the facts!”
“So you claim to not know what should happen, yet you make it a point to give your fellow hnky motherfer the benefit of the doubt….”
“Black people, there are hnky motherfer racist agents in our midst…. tread carefully!”
None of those sound remotely like anything someone would say. You weren’t just hoping for a simple substitution of terms. What you actually meant was that you would have preferred for Sondis to hurl “hnky motherfer” at you as an expletive — not because it would have earned your respect, but because it would have given you real ammunition to paint him as overly emotional, which his actual measured wording did not. And there would have been no burden of proof on you to demonstrate that you aren’t a “hnky motherfer,” whereas “white supremacist” cannot be so easily dismissed, especially as your behavior here so far certainly lends itself to that conclusion.
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@ sharinalr
“Shouldn’t it read “What data, stats, and all information?” Because I would prefer if you asked about the entirety of what I said and not the tad bit you want to.”
Actually, no. Statistics and information are types of data. Kind of like how canoes and skiffs are types of boats. There’s no need to say boats, canoes, and skiffs because “boats” covers them all.
Now, which data?
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@Monica
“Actually, no. Statistics and information are types of data.”–Actually yes. Types don’t mean they are all the same and the inability to differentiate is important.
“Now, which data?”–I told you what data. You tried to lump it into one. I even pointed you in a direction.
1 more post. So far not so good.
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Per the discussion of black cops policing black neighborhoods.
I admit that I find myself on the fence. On one end I feel the simple solution is to put black cops in black neighborhoods. On the other hand I remember getting harsher treatment by a black cops.
Removing myself from the situation I saw more of a community relationship with black cops who work in communities they have family in or live in. The kids are protected and allowed to be KIDS. Additionally community meetings so cops understand what black neighborhoods need.
As someone who frequents ATL, this story shocks me. I consider ATL the black mecca of sorts. My friend is a cop there. I wanted to badly to blame brooks because how else could this happen. The article below reminded me that Altanta is still in America.
https://www.atlantamagazine.com/list/race-atlanta/atlanta-georgia-not-different/
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@Monica
“Don’t say that. Someone may take it seriously and end up hurt because of it. People need to comply for their own safety as well as the officers’.”
That statement alone sums it up for you doesn’t it? Within that statement , you convey your trust in police, your feeling of safety in compliance and your total disregard for the myriad stories of lived experiences from people of color that clearly explain the variation in treatment by police.
Black people do not experience policing the same as White people.
Black people that comply also die.
You either believe the countless stories that illustrate those statements or you believe Black people got together at some mythical annual cookout and collectively decided to lie.
Your statement also belies the fact that you don’t know any Black people (who trust you enough to be honest with you) or you would be keenly aware of “the talk” that ALL parents of Black children, and particularly Black boys, have with their kids about compliance and coming home alive. Knowing that would give you the perspective that compliance IS taught… significantly moreso that White kids are taught… in minute details of exactly where to place your hands, how slowly to move and how to speak. Knowing that would have allowed you to take Sharina’s comment seriously. Not as an instruction, but as an empathetic statement made by someone who understands fear of police in a way that you and I do not.
Sharina told you, “Or people fearful of their life run from dangerous criminals who call themselves the police.” You are not likely a person who fears police because they have never behaved criminally towards you. That’s your perception based on your lived experience. Maybe take a moment to stop denying the lived experiences of people right here on this blog that are being kind enough to share their perceptions with you and open your mid to the possibility that we don’t all experience policing the same.
Try, if only as a thought experiment, to give Rayshard Brooks the benefit of the doubt instead of the officer. I can agree that you and I weren’t there and neither of us will likely be on the jury either. But, unlike you, and your “colorblind” / “why bring race into it?” / “Cops treat everyone who points things at them equally” / “Comply or die”, I’m much more aware of the vastly different, and entirely justified, perspective on police that many Black people have. I wholeheartedly understand the fear of interacting with police and agree that choosing to run, or stand and fight, or grab a vigilante’s shotgun, or struggle to breath, in a life or death situation are perfectly reasonable reactions.
Give Rashard the benefit of the doubt and you might come to realize that he sensed he was not going to survive the encounter if he complied. We’ll never know… because Garrett Rolfe killed him.
P.S. Whether you can admit to it or not, you were absolutely tone policing Sondis. You were the one that bristled at being identified as racist and you were the one snapping back by calling his commentary a tantrum. His comments were spot on. If you don’t like the picture they paint of you… maybe you should stop debating, open your mind and start learning.
Or… ignore this whole comment. Go on about your blissfully ignorant life trusting police and blaming varying outcomes on the victims whenever the perpetrators are White. I suspect you have that privilege.
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sharinalr:
Per the discussion of black cops policing black neighborhoods.
“On the other hand I remember getting harsher treatment by a black cops.”
I already spoke to this in my earlier response to DurtVanDutch:
“DurtVanDutch
@Sondis Black cops end up being worse than white cops. they have an image to uphold.”
‘This is false and an outright lie to say that black cops would be worse than white cops that kill, harass and arrest black people.
Without a white racist overseer, from a racist culture within the police departments across America, there will be no pressure applied to black cops to conform to white racist ideology.
Therefore, black cops will be left to do what policing SHOULD be, which is to serve and protect the black community, not what it’s legacy has been since slavery, to harass, arrest and kill black people.”
This could happen with the removal of racist white men and women at the head of the justice system within black cities and towns, all the way from the mayor, DA and police chief would be black!
This way, black men and women that join the police force with a goal to change the racist system from within, would be successful.
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@ Open Minded Observer
You should develop a healthy skepticism to go along with that open mind.
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@Sondis
“Without a white racist overseer, from a racist culture within the police departments across America, there will be no pressure applied to black cops to conform to white racist ideology.”—I agree. Without the need to prove something or fit in line with a racist culture it is likely that they will protect and serve our black communities as they should be.
One of the issues we will face is white racist apologist within our ranks that racist whites will do anything to push forward. This is my fear. This is where we would have to come out in droves to ensure the right ones are in those top positions.
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We also need to change the structural protections that allow the police to kill or brutalize without consequence.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/nicksibilla/2020/06/21/colorado-passes-landmark-law-against-qualified-immunity-creates-new-way-to-protect-civil-rights/
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This is a copy and paste from a letter sent to a friends congressman. There are bills out there meant to window dress this issue without any real change.
“I sent an email to my Representative (Rep. Ted Lieu , CA 33) to request his support of Justin Amash ‘s bill to End Qualified Immunity. I did so immediately upon Amash’s announcement of the bill.”
“Today Lieu got back to me to inform me he cosponsored the Justice in Policing Act (HR 7120). He also cosponsored House Resolution 988 condemning all acts of police brutality.”
“He did not actually address Amash’s bill which was what my request was about.”
“Here is my response sent via email but shared for the rest of you:”
Dear Representative Lieu,
I appreciate your willingness to be part of a Resolution condemning the brutality. I encourage that. I also encourage you to be more involved in action on this issue.
With all due respect, the reform bill known as “Justice in Policing” is a toothless bill.
-It creates limitations (Sec 343) on the Freedom of Information Act – so this information will be COLLECTED but is not allowed to be PUBLISHED under various conditions. This is BAD.
-It does not eliminate the transfer of military equipment to police. (On that, btw, please oppose program 1033 of the NDAA when it comes up again).
-It only bans no-knock warrants for drug-related investigations. Not all others. ALL NO-KNOCK needs to be banned.
-It does not require state attorneys general to create an independent process to investigate misconduct or excessive force.
-It does not ELIMINATE qualified immunity.
-It applies to federal police.
-Deadly holds are already often banned, it’s the qualified immunity and unions that render those regulations ineffectual.
-Body cams aren’t enough – officers should be held accountable for body cams being turned off.
We need ENORMOUS reform. We don’t need toothless pandering to police unions. We need ACTION taken on every level to protect civilians from an abusive police force where the bad cops are protected and the good cops either don’t last or are corrupted and themselves become bad.
-We need to REQUIRE police carry personal liability insurance. It is NOT okay for taxpayers to pay out on civil suits against officers.
-We need to END qualified immunity.
-We need full-scale demilitarization. NO TEAR GAS, NO TANKS.
-We need to END civil asset forfeiture.
-We need to terminate police unions, quite frankly, though that’s a pipe dream in this political climate.
Justin Amash’s TRI-partisan bill to END QUALIFIED IMMUNITY must pass the House and I URGE you support it and I also support Rand Paul’s Bill to Ban No Knock Warrants (Justice For Breonna Taylor Act), which is in the Senate but I would recommend vocal support of.
These are the moments that define us throughout history. Please stand with the people against the abuses of police, and stand for REAL reforms that change the entire profession of policing.
With respect and thanks for your attention,
Avens O’Brien
(Yes, obviously we also need to end victimless crimes and drug crimes and all that, but I’m trying to at least focus the issue a little bit for the purposes of him possibly proposing amendments.)
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@ Open Minded Observer
“You either believe the countless stories that illustrate those statements or you believe Black people got together at some mythical annual cookout and collectively decided to lie.”
And Native Americans and Latinxs and at least some AAPIs and NAMEs. That’s one hell of a cookout. Either a whole lot of people are lying or a whole lot of white cops are racist.
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@ Monica
You are really not half as intelligent as you think you are. You have absolutely no idea about the systemic racism that infects this country. Your suggestion that people should simply comply with the police and nothing bad will happen is the epitome of ignorance.
You are, indeed, an under-educated racist. May I suggest that you desist from typing your oh-so-grammatically correct ignorant nonsense and, instead, do some listening?
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@ Brit Emma
Insulting people who disagree doesn’t prove anything except that you’re a bully.
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@Monica
“You should develop a healthy skepticism to go along with that open mind.”
Indeed, I spent a significant part of a lifetime thinking like you. It was skepticism of my own perceptions, formed by the White bubble I was raised in, that opened my mind in the first place. So, right back at ya.
Let me ask you; does it make more sense to be skeptical of a White person’s assumptions about police interactions with people of color or the 1st person accounts of those people describing their own personal interactions? Certainly, a single person can exaggerate or even outright lie in the telling of their individual tale. Just as a single person can downplay or outright lie about a lack of adverse interactions. However, if you pay any attention to the overwhelming consensus of personal accounts, the theme is clear.
So, I reiterate, you either believe those people are all part of some giant conspiracy to discredit the police or you know the truth and prefer to continue oppressing those stories. It is literally that simple.
I will leave you with this final thought…You’re probably not going to have much luck coming to a predominantly Black blog and trying to convince people that policing is not racially biased. Particularly since the perceptions and understanding that you convey differs so wildly from their own lived experiences. The ignorance that is conveyed in your posts is evidence of the privilege you enjoy.
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@ Monica. No insults, just facts, privileged, “bullied” Monica.
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@ Monica
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@ Open Minded Observer
“you either believe those people are all part of some giant conspiracy to discredit the police or you know the truth and prefer to continue oppressing those stories.”
I always get a laugh when someone makes a false either/or argument. No. The correct answer is behind Door #3. It’s actually very obvious. So if you really want to know then you’ll figure it out.
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@Monica
Sorry…
you either believe those people are all part of some giant conspiracy to discredit the police or you
knoware ignorant of the truth andprefer tocontinue oppressing those stories.”fixed it for ya.
“So if you really want to know then you’ll figure it out.”
Right back at you. Again, I’ve been where you are.
I’ll keep it simple: Do you believe that people are lying when they explain how their experiences with policing are different than those of White people on average?
A. Yes
B. No
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“Again, I’ve been where you are.”
I don’t think so. I was never in a “white bubble”. You’re still in one but don’t realize it. Changing your opinion didn’t make you right. It just made you wrong in a different way.
“Do you believe that people are lying when they explain how their experiences with policing are different than those of White people on average?”
Do you believe every convict who claims they’re innocent?
A. Yes
B. No
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@ Monica
“Do you believe every convict who claims they’re innocent?”
At first I thought that was an outrageous false equivalency. Then I realized that, to you, they’re equivalent. The majority of people of color expressing lived experiences of differing police treatment must equate to the majority of convicts claiming innocence in your mind.
Anyway, I’ll play along… B. No. I do not believe every convict who claims they’re innocent. I do believe many more innocent people have been incarcerated than society is willing to acknowledge. I support EJI and The Innocence Project because of that belief.
Perhaps I haven’t literally been where you are (though I’m pretty well traveled). I can say with confidence that I’ve shared the same perceptions you’ve expressed here. I also know and interact with a significant number of people that express the exact sentiments you do. Just as I don’t know the specifics of your situation, you don’t know mine. You stated that changing my opinion made me wrong in a different way. That’s the thing… I didn’t just wake up one day and “choose” to change my opinion. You’re literally trying to convince me that I have not seen and heard the actual encounters with my own eyes and ears. You’re denying that my lived experiences are real, or at least that they’re valid, because they support a narrative that matches up with the vast majority of Black people in America but doesn’t reconcile with your own experiences. You’re welcome to tell me you’ve never seen differential treatment. But, you cannot tell me that I haven’t witnessed it. You’re welcome to tell me that none of the police you know express racist or biased sentiments. But, you’ll never convince me that I haven’t heard cops dropping n-words and bad-mouthing citizens that they consider to be “gh-{moderated word}-o”. You’ll never convince me that I haven’t heard and seen White people express unfounded and irrational fear of Black men.. or seen them identify a 10-year old Black boy as 17… or the myriad other ways in which people of color experience life differently than I do. Including policing. I’ve seen it and what I’ve seen agrees with the theme of everything people on this blog are trying to tell you.
Now, I’ll restate my question in a third attempt to get you to answer it:
Have you ever believed any person of color who stated that they experience policing differently than White people?
A. Yes
B. No
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@ Monica
How do you know you weren’t raised in a white bubble?
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@ Open Minded Observer
“At first I thought that was an outrageous false equivalency.”
My question was sincere and valid. Most convicts claim innocence or, at the very least, think they got a raw deal. Very few own their circumstances. Instead, they make excuses and blame others.
“You’re literally trying to convince me that I have not seen and heard the actual encounters with my own eyes and ears.”
Oh nos! Someone said the naughty word. Once again, you’ve lived your life in a bubble. So you don’t know what you don’t know. If you did know then you wouldn’t exaggerate the importance of something so trivial.
“Now, I’ll restate my question in a third attempt to get you to answer it”
Your question is too vague. How, specifically, do you believe policing differs?
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@ Monica
“My question was sincere and valid. Most convicts claim innocence or, at the very least, think they got a raw deal. Very few own their circumstances. Instead, they make excuses and blame others.”
How many convicts do you personally know to make the claim of accountability? Asking for a friend.
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@ Monica
“Oh nos! Someone said the naughty word.”
I’ve heard white cops laughingly refer to crimes with black perpetrators and black victims as NHI. It means “no humans involved.” And that attitude definitely affects how those cops handle the case and how they interact with the victims or the victim’s family. NHI cases go on their back burner. Evidence often gets mishandled or lost. They don’t care, because they’ve written off the black victims as non-human.
The n-word is not trivial. White cops who use it — not in the heat of the moment but casually amongst themselves — are expressing their deep disdain for black people. That attitude does negatively affect the quality of their work.
I’ve seen the same phenomenon with white physicians and surgeons. I’ve seen interns and residents pick up the racist attitudes of the hospital staff they work with, and I’ve seen their behavior change towards black patients, with a corresponding decrease in the quality of medical care provided.
The fact that you use childish sarcasm to dismiss the “naughty word” as “trivial” demonstrates your unwillingness to look beyond your own lived experience. Once again you reveal that you live in a white bubble, without enough innate empathy to place yourself in someone else’s shoes.
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@ Monica
Too vague?! It’s a yes or no question!
“Have you ever believed any person of color who stated that they experience policing differently than White people?”
You have two possible answers: Yes or No.
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@Monica
“My question was sincere and valid.”
I realized that you thought so. That’s why I answered it. (A courtesy you could not return apparently)
“Oh nos! Someone said the naughty word”
There’s that fundamental lack of understanding again.
“So you don’t know what you don’t know.”
Is that “ironic” ironic or Alanis Morissette ironic? Either way, it’s priceless.
“Your question is too vague.”
I suppose it would be for someone lacking the foundational knowledge and experience to understand the context. But, you could have tried to find an appropriate definition of “differ” based on the conversation we were having.
Anyway, it’s been fun. But, I think it’s time for me to spit the hook and swim off.
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@Solitaire
I think the problem with the question was the “person of color who stated” part. Perhaps Monica has never had a conversation with a person of color about their experience with policing. If she had, and that person stated they were treated differently, then that would have defined “differs”. Instead, she asked me to define it because she wanted to debate my opinion of how it differs.
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@ Holly
“How many convicts do you personally know to make the claim of accountability?”
You’d be surprised.
@ Solitaire
“I’ve heard white cops laughingly refer to crimes with black perpetrators and black victims as NHI.”
NHI refers to crime in which both the perpetrator and victim are criminals. In some cities, over 90% of homicide victims are criminals themselves. Criminals killing criminals is NHI.
“The fact that you use childish sarcasm to dismiss the “naughty word” as “trivial” demonstrates your unwillingness to look beyond your own lived experience.”
I’ve no doubt been called racial slurs more than you have. I find it childish. So is getting angry over it. I’m not sure why those things should be different for you than for me. Though I’m sure someone “unwilling to look beyond their own lived experience” would claim otherwise.
“Too vague?! It’s a yes or no question!”
Demanding a one word answer doesn’t keep the question from being vague. If one wants a yes or no answer then they need to ask a very specific question.
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@ Observer
“Is that “ironic” ironic or Alanis Morissette ironic? Either way, it’s priceless.”
“Reports that say that something hasn’t happened are always interesting to me, because as we know, there are known knowns; there are things we know we know. We also know there are known unknowns; that is to say we know there are some things we do not know. But there are also unknown unknowns—the ones we don’t know we don’t know. And if one looks throughout the history of our country and other free countries, it is the latter category that tend to be the difficult ones.” — Donald Rumsfeld
” Perhaps Monica has never had a conversation with a person of color about their experience with policing.”
I’ve had plenty of conversations. But I base my opinions on facts and evidence not unfounded allegations about what someone claims to have experienced.
“Instead, she asked me to define it because she wanted to debate my opinion of how it differs.”
Of course. Why wouldn’t I? You think people should accept your beliefs without question? I do think you think that.
“But, I think it’s time for me to spit the hook and swim off.”
On the contrary, it was you who was baiting me. But I didn’t bite. So you’re taking your fishing pole and going home.
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@Monica
“But I base my opinions on facts.” Or you base your opinion on opinions you believe are fact. Sad.
Oh how sad it has become when people ignore all that research out there. 😎
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@Open Minded Observer
I believe you can categorize what she is doing as gaslighting or just being a plain hypocrite. She asks you a question then when you answer it and return she argues how vague it is (ignoring the vague responses she keeps giving) and then concludes that you are baiting her. Answering the question would simply allow her to go into detail about why she feels that way, but instead she chose to avoid it like the plague.
“Perhaps Monica has never had a conversation with a person of color about their experience with policing.”–Even though she claims to have had one I think the truth is she never has. I see common responses from individuals who have never had the conversation with POC, but want to appear as if they have “heard all sides.” I had to have that talk with one individual in my life and she quickly showed me that it would not happen again. However, personal experiences are not the only bits of information available. Several forms of data can be found that support the claims.
Lastly, Jim and Nancy Petro wrote about 8 myths that convict the innocent. The on at the top is “everyone in prison claims innocents.” A revision this claim has become most, but what supports that most do?
Click to access Petro_July23_AM.pdf
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@ Open Minded Observer
“I think the problem with the question was the “person of color who stated” part. Perhaps Monica has never had a conversation with a person of color about their experience with policing.”
I don’t think it matters if she hasn’t. Your original wording of your question had to do with the myriad examples available to anyone, in articles and books or on the internet. Even the last rewording didn’t necessarily ask about people she knows in real life, just whether she’s believed anyone. That “anyone” could be, for example, Amber Ruffin, who described her own experiences over a week of Late Night segments recently.
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@ Monica
“NHI refers to crime in which both the perpetrator and victim are criminals. In some cities, over 90% of homicide victims are criminals themselves. Criminals killing criminals is NHI.”
I know what I’ve heard from LEOs and how it was used. I’ve heard it used in cases where the victims were not criminals.
“I’ve no doubt been called racial slurs more than you have.”
You are very slow on the uptake.
“I find it childish. So is getting angry over it. I’m not sure why those things should be different for you than for me.”
Were any of the people who called you racial slurs in a position of power over you? Could they decide whether you went to jail, whether you got hired, whether you got promoted, whether you got fired, whether you got an MRI, whether you got a prescription for painkillers or antibiotics, whether you passed a class, whether you graduated?
Please note also that I wasn’t talking about LEOs or healthcare workers who called POC racial slurs to their faces. I very clearly said this was all behind their backs and not in the heat of the moment. White people who use racial slurs behind POC’s backs also provide substandard services to those same POC.
“Demanding a one word answer doesn’t keep the question from being vague. If one wants a yes or no answer then they need to ask a very specific question.”
It was specific. It’s a very clear question. Many POC have written about their encounters with the police. Many have described their encounters on camera. Many talk about their encounters at community meetings or at demonstrations or at roundtables about race relations. Some speak individually to people they know. Out of the accounts you have encountered, was there ever one that you believed? Yes or no.
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@ Monica
Speaking of being vague, how about you stop it with this cryptic nonsense:
“So you don’t know what you don’t know. If you did know then you wouldn’t exaggerate the importance of something so trivial.”
and just state plainly what it is you think Open Minded Observer doesn’t know that he doesn’t know.
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@ Monica
“How many convicts do you personally know to make the claim of accountability?”
You’d be surprised.
Provide me with a rough estimate. Thanks.
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http://www.citypages.com/news/crybaby-cop-explains-why-she-shouldnt-have-to-live-in-the-community-she-polices/571463321
Upthread we had spoken about community policing. 92% of the police in Minneapolis do not live where they work.
“At the end of the day, if we live in the city, that means we have to shop where criminals that we arrest also shop,” Hedberg says.”
“And I don’t know about you, but I don’t want to go to Cub Foods with my two beautiful little girls and run into somebody that I’ve arrested for sexual assault, shooting somebody, using heroin.”
The police function like an occupying force with no accountability.
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Police culture is toxic. The whole system of law enforcement needs to be dismantled and torn down and rebuilt. Character and mental health assessments need to be scrutinized.
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will this comment post?
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@Mary
Agreed. Add additional time in the police academy for new hires and periodic retraining. Instead of training that is complete in 13 to 19 weeks. Training should at least be a year. To include methods for disarming individuals that are less lethal.
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And periodic unannounced testing for steroid abuse.
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Neroisdifferent?
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@ Didi Wang
Neroisdifferent.
How is Nero different?
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@ Afrofem
Probably the same person as Wangdi on the Nazi Germany thread?
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@ Solitaire
Yes. Someone with Tourette’s syndrome–comments edition.
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?
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Ahhhh again with this fake narrative . Ray shard was an criminal who beater his wife and children. Was intoxicated in the middle of nowhere. Chose to resist arrest and run intoxicated with the officer taser and tase the cop ! Did I mention taser or an deadly weapon . The cop has the right to defend himself cause this fool rayshard was an public threat . It’s funny how you say he unarmed . When he got an taser in his hand intoxicated. Just cause somebody unarmed dosent mean they aren’t an threat . Shame on BLM for protesting for him instead of that innocent 8 year old then blm protesters shot .
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@Jazzyforever123
Also dont forget Jackass was a blood/Vice lord in the Atalanta section a gang banger same ones who love killing black folks then want you to feel sorry for them. He had matching identifying tats and his face book page is filled with pictures of him and his boys in all Red and some members having real Guns in the pics
Also he runs his mouth about how he just want to spend time with his kids but had aside chick the white woman that burned the Wendys was his side ho.
But they wanna act like he was such a Family Man smfh
Yall really think this clown was going to walk all the way back home, he was saying what they want to hear ill tell you what he was going to do, he was going to walk off a bit and then as soon as he saw the cops out of the distance he was gone walk back to his car get in and drive. His Blood Alcohol was over double the legal amount say he hit and killed someone then what??? yall would’ve blamed the cops for not doing they job and arresting him smh.
That man had 0 accountability he was already on probation and they told him driving drunk will result in you going back to jail and he chose to get drunk its his own damn fault he got killed oh well is what it is.
He was in the drive thru for a bout an hour passed out drunk a Wendy’s employee banged on his window and said he had to move instead he looked at her and went back to sleep if he simply pulled into a parking spot and turned his car off he would’ve been good he had plenty chances and he caused it on himself.
and Thank You that 8 year old girl who lost her life deserves the attention and media attention not him
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@Abagond
You sure have an influx of loud, opinionated, and wrongs on this post.🤔
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Is this team supposed to be Edgar cayce?
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Um?
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