George Floyd (c. 1974-2020) was an unarmed Black man in the US killed by police this week, on May 25th, in Minneapolis. It has led to the worst riots since 2015, when Baltimore burned after Freddie Gray was killed by police. Now Minneapolis burns. Protests have spread across the country to Los Angeles, Phoenix, Denver, Chicago, Memphis, New York and elsewhere.
This comes in the wake of the killings of Breonna Taylor and Ahmaud Arbery making the news.
The arrest: Floyd was arrested after Cup Foods called police saying that he tried to pay with a fake $20. A crime, but not a a violent or life-threatening one. Floyd was a restaurant security guard who had been thrown out of work by the Pandemic of 2020.
Derek Chauvin, a White police officer, had his knee on Floyd’s neck for at least eight minutes – after Floyd had been handcuffed! Floyd repeatedly gasped, “I can’t breathe!” Bystanders urged Chauvin to stop or at least check his pulse. After the first four minutes Floyd stopped moving. After four more minutes the paramedics arrive and Chauvin removes his knee. Floyd is lifeless. The paramedics cannot find a pulse. The hospital declares him dead.
It is hard to see it as anything other than a lynching, an act of terror, a raw assertion of police power over Black lives.
Three other officers took part:
- Tou Thao,
- Thomas Lane,
- J. Alexander Kueng.
All four officers were fired – itself a rare move in such cases – but none have been arrested. Thus the protests, which have now turned violent: throwing rocks at police cars, looting a Target department store, burning down an AutoZone car parts shop, etc. Last night they burned down the police station of the third precinct in Minneapolis.
President Trump, like Obama in 2015, called the rioters “thugs” but not the police. #WhitePropertyMatters. Trump’s Department of Justice is opening an independent investigation to determine if Floyd’s civil rights were violated. Not holding my breath.
The governor has called in the state’s National Guard troops to restore order.
The mayor wonders why the four police officers have not been arrested.
The police union:
“Now is not the time to rush to judgement and immediately condemn our officers.”
The county prosecutor, Mike Freeman:
“my job, in the end, is to prove that he violated a criminal statute, and there is other evidence that does not support a criminal charge. … We have to do this right. … I will not rush justice, because justice cannot be rushed.”
He does not say what the “other evidence” is.
Amy Klobuchar, by the way, was the county prosecutor from 1999 to 2007. The Washington Post says she “declined to bring charges in more than two dozen cases in which people were killed in encounters with police”. One of those killer cops was Derek Chauvin. So here we are. She is on Joe Biden’s shortlist for vice president in the 2020 election.
This just in: Chauvin has been arrested and charged with third-degree murder and manslaughter!
– Abagond, 2020.
Update (June 3rd): After the worst week of civil unrest the US has seen since the 1960s, the other three police officers have at last been charged with a crime: aiding and abetting murder. And Chauvin’s 3rd-degree murder charge has been upped to 2nd degree. This comes after the case was taken from Mike Freeman, the (White) county prosecutor, and given to Keith Ellison, the (Black) state attorney general, as the Floyd family wanted.
See also:
- The extremely incomplete list of unarmed Blacks killed by police
- Breonna Taylor
- Ahmaud Arbery
- Freddie Gray update
- Eric Garner – also could not breathe
- The term “thug”
- #CVSmatters – Obama in 2015
- killing Black people:
- Minneapolis:
- near Minneapolis
- 2020:
674
Abagond 
Combuchar’s VP aspirations taking a hit today. The issues are systemic. All candidates that have gotten to the point of recognition and establishment support have participated in perpetuating it.
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A few things:
The video shows clear wrongdoing by the police officer. So he was quickly fired and charged with murder. No issues there.
But, disgusting and reprehensible that this has become a racial thing. These guys knew each other from previous work (yeah, the cop worked at this place for 17 years. he’s gonna know the other guards), so there’s likely some personal issues. Happens that this “gentle giant” did an armed home invasion and threatened the person with a gun previously (in addition to his drug stuff and counterfitting. So he happens to be trash, but he was still murdered. Most of you wouldn’t feel too bad about a KKK member getting murdered I’m sure. Also, maybe without the lockdown he could have kept his job and stayed alive…
Disgusting that the media focuses on this to the exclusion of other crimes. Did you know, cops of color are more likely to kill black men than white cops? Also, white suspects are more likely to be killed by cops than black ones–not just overall, but in each individual case? So why would this be a racial issue?
And cities will burn. Millions will get poorer and live worse lives. Thousands more will die because of weaker policing. We’ve seen this before. The primary people who suffer are Blacks… And yet you have the media egging on the rioters and looters..
Just disgusting.
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George Floyd’s last arrest was over a decade ago and he appeared to have turned his life around:
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8366533/George-Floyd-moved-Minneapolis-start-new-life-released-prison-Texas.html
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Derek Chauvin had 18 former complaints against him:
https://www.cnn.com/2020/05/28/us/minneapolis-officer-complaints-george-floyd/index.html
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At one point, three of the four officers appear to be kneeling on Floyd’s body simultaneously:
https://www.cnn.com/videos/us/2020/05/29/george-floyd-kneeled-on-by-three-officers-video-vpx.cnn
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@ Biff
“Most of you wouldn’t feel too bad about a KKK member getting murdered I’m sure.”
George Floyd is not synonymous with a KKK member. He didn’t belong to a terrorist organization that promotes racist ideology.
He’s synonymous with any white guy who has a similar past of drug use and prison time.
Commenters on this site have expressed sadness and shock over police murders of white people before, and I have no reason to think they wouldn’t do so again.
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@ biff
The American police must purge itself of bad apples. This is my view.
They are making themselves to appear as evil, maintaining with them individuals who shouldn’t be there. Or are they evil? And are you comfortable with that?
This, by the way, is valid for any law enforcement institution in any country, not just America.
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Alright, I shouldn’t have called the man “trash”. If he was genuinely trying to make a new start, I give him credit for that. Not sure what he’s doing with fake money, but again not something he deserves to get murdered over.
The thing is, munubantu, there are always some bad apples. Why focus on them and take away from the vast majority, hundreds of thousands who put their lives on the line for strangers of any color every day?
What is “evil” is the media focus on this and inspiring riots and looting and lax policing going forward that will likely literally result in the deaths of thousands (mostly young black males, the ones George apparently wanted to save). And I’m not exaggerating–there are numbers from after Ferguson that are truly mind-blowing…
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Many out-of-touch white baby boomers aren’t reading the room properly. We’re in the midst of a pandemic, have a rather unpopular president, mass unemployment, millenials deeply in debt, corporations getting bailed out then the klu klux kops just went threw a lit match into the situation.
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https://abagond.wordpress.com/2015/10/29/the-ferguson-effect/
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ferguson_effect
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R.I.P.
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Wikipedia is leftist propaganda for just about anything that matters. So is abagond much of the time. The Ferguson Effect is real: Murders were up 20.3% nationally from 2014 to 2016, with huge increases where BLM took control: St. Louis, Baltimore, Chicago, and Charlotte. They weren’t allowed to take control in NYC, because powerful people actually live there.
Even though this dude got arrested and charged with murder, with NO ONE defending him, we get riots all over the country. It’s not “klu klux kops”. It’s one bad dude who did something terrible to someone he obviously didn’t like.. RIP for all the people who have died and will die because of what the media has done here and the police not stopping this mayhem…
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Minnesota Statutes
609.195 MURDER IN THE THIRD DEGREE.
(a) Whoever, without intent to effect the death of any person, causes the death of another by perpetrating an act eminently dangerous to others and evincing a depraved mind, without regard for human life, is guilty of murder in the third degree and may be sentenced to imprisonment for not more than 25 years.
609.19 MURDER IN THE SECOND DEGREE.
Subdivision 1.Intentional murder
Whoever does either of the following is guilty of murder in the second degree and may be sentenced to imprisonment for not more than 40 years:
(1) causes the death of a human being with intent to effect the death of that person or another, but without premeditation;
Clearly, murderous or monsterous Ofcr. Derek Chauvin’s actions are more aligned with, at a minimum, a second degree murder charge. Why? Well, Chauvin’s actions were with intent of a depraved mind that resulted in someone’s death, NOT without intent.
The county prosecutor, Mike Freeman:
“my job, in the end, is to prove that he violated a criminal statute, and there is other evidence that does not support a criminal charge. … We have to do this right. … I will not rush justice, because justice cannot be rushed.”
My job, in the end, is to prove that George Floyd is still alive, and there is evidence that clearly supports my theory and I am in support of not issuing a death certificate as well, … We have to do this right, because I am slow to act on injustices, … I am also slow to charge undoubtedly, an unjust cop, because injustices should be hushed. (sarcasm)
They might say we’re a menace to society
But at the same time I say “Why is it me?”
Am I the target, for destruction?
What about the system, and total corruption? – Rapper Gang Starr, Code of the Streets
https://www.revisor.mn.gov/statutes/cite/609.20
https://www.revisor.mn.gov/statutes/cite/609.19
https://www.revisor.mn.gov/statutes/cite/609.195
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If there is one ‘bad apple’ in a group, it behooves the other so-called ‘good ones’ to act to deter this bad apple and others like them. Turning a blind eye makes the others complicit in the ‘bad apples’ behaviour.
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RIP
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Coming from Africa, voices of solidarity with Black America and discontent with racism in America.
Trevor Noah, in a well thought “cerebral testimony” says, criticizing the critics of the looting happening these days in America in the aftermath of George Floyd’s murder:
Powerful words, indeed! Follow his thoughts in the following video-clip (specially minute 15:23):
(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v4amCfVbA_c)
And Wode Maya, an young Ghanian, put out his emotions in reaction to the murder asking “our fellow brothers in the diaspora” if it is worth to live in such an insane place full of racism.
(minute 02:37)
Follow his thoughts in the following video-clip:
(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HwbTakEU6gA)
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@ Biff
“Wikipedia is leftist propaganda for just about anything that matters…. The Ferguson Effect is real”
Actually the Wiki article as it stands on this date is even-handed, providing arguments both for and against the existence of the Ferguson Effect. It also provides links to peer-reviewed studies that support either side.
At any rate, it wasn’t for your benefit that I posted those links but for any readers (especially those in other countries) who might be unfamiliar with the term and might not know that the existence of such an effect has not been proven definitively.
“Murders were up 20.3% nationally from 2014 to 2016, with huge increases where BLM took control”
Correlation does not equal causation; I expect you already know this very basic scientific fact. And BLM didn’t “take control” of anything anywhere.
This article provides statistical context for the uptick in the murder rate during those two years:
https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/the-u-s-murder-rate-is-up-but-still-far-below-its-1980-peak/
As does this chart:
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Herneith said:
“If there is one ‘bad apple’ in a group, it behooves the other so-called ‘good ones’ to act to deter this bad apple and others like them. Turning a blind eye makes the others complicit in the ‘bad apples’ behaviour.”
Very well said. Allow me please to add to this observation.
There were FOUR — count them, FOUR — police officers at the scene of George Floyd’s death.
Three of these officers stood by and did nothing while the “bad apple” murdered George Floyd, while the onlookers begged them to stop the murder happening before their very eyes.
How many “bad apples” do we have here?
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17 year old Darnella Frazier who captured the video of George Floyd being murdered, is traumatized and being harassed. I hope she can be protected from retaliation from the dirty cops. I just remember the man who captured the video of Eric Garner and how the cops retaliated against him.
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https://www.vice.com/amp/en_us/article/pkyb9b/far-right-extremists-are-hoping-to-turn-the-george-floyd-protests-into-a-new-civil-war
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George Floyd calling for his mother as the life is being choked out of him. Breaks my heart.
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Reblogged this on Steph's Blog and commented:
This needs to end. I’m tired of society excusing cops and vigilantes killing innocent Black citizens all over America.
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There are many factors but since this is a national problem ,multiple instances of police abuse and killings of predominately African american citizens and logically follows that there will be multiple uprisings in multiple american cities.
One permanent long term solution would be the immediate firing of any any american police officer after 2 or more validated abuse complaints.
Mandatory Charging and conviction of any officer involved in a unjustified homicide or assault.
However america has from its founding been a deeply racist society and much of its populace knows the lack of accountability allotted police.
This is why many white americans will confidentially call the police on a African american knowing that it will likely be abusive encounter and nether they nor the police will be held accountable.
European white people represent the most aggressive and dominant strand of our species socially and culturally at this time.
However Their dominance seems to depend in relation to their fellow humans of differing phenotype ,on the most extreme violence and lies.
What is it and why is it that one phenotypic group of our species must aggressively pursue dominance and monopoly of all resources to the exclusion and pathology of all other groups ,even all other life ,even the planet itself.
When At this point in our evolution our technical knowledge has made large scale war virtually impossible without complete systemic destruction of our species and planet.
When we have the knowledge and wealth to provide food clothe and shelter to our entire species instead its hoard by a few white men for their aggrandizement while the majority of the white population esteems this as something to admire and aspire to.
At this time the smallest of biological units has rendered the economics and technology of the most aggressive and dominant biological group – human and esp white american humans impudent and powerless.
And the lies and deceit which all humans participate in are increasingly laid bare.
But still most humans including most black and brown humans support a hierarchy of status and value in which white people are on top and black people are on the bottom.
This is in contradiction to a functional social system as well as a functioning ecological system.
Will we progress beyond this current impasse.
I think part of the reason black people are on the bottom is because many have accepted a role forced apon them, but for how long.
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I’m done with words.
My boys and I are going down to L.A. to agitate.
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All of these protests have escalated into chaos. They have nothing to do with George Floyd.
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What I notice is that the breaking of windows and looting of stores is termed “violence” more readily than the police violence that kills human beings. The latter is often described in euphemistic ways such as “actions which may have caused the death of the suspect”.
If “they” feel more for property than for human lives then perhaps these modern protestors are hitting them where it really hurts. MLK’s idea of allowing their bodies to be abused on camera in order awaken a “conscience” won’t have the intended effect at if your life is seen as valueless.
Many people who would complain about “violent” looting also complained about peaceful kneeling or mere congregation during the Occupy protests. The implicit command is “shut up”. TPTB don’t wish to hear anything much less to take any action to alleviate racism and economic inequalities. The practically unyielding, dictatorial nature of America’s theoretically democratic constructs has helped to foster the current revolutionary mood.
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All of these protests have escalated into chaos. They have nothing to do with George Floyd.
yes they do.
so white police regularly kill black people all across the us and you actually expect only peaceful non violent protests?
and its not chaos ,it a natural and logical response to abuse and neglect.
Andy our expectation of peaceful ,orderly reasoned response to such abuse and neglect is a part of the problem.
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@ Origin
In the US money is way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, WAY more important than human life.
Especially to the ghouls who run the place – and everyone more outraged by the looting and burning than the killing of George Floyd.
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@grojo
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whee
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@v8driver
This is not going to end well.
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nope
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https://mronline.org/2020/05/30/minneapolis-police-leader-defending-george-floyds-killers-tied-to-white-power-linked-biker-gang/
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NYC cop throwing a white power hand sign. The barrel is rotten with neo-nazi apples.
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White kids breaking windows while black protest organizer yells at them to stop:
https://mobile.twitter.com/thejordynbrown/status/1266633436359344136
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@ Origin
Abagond did a post on how the media smooths out and normalizes police violence:
https://abagond.wordpress.com/2016/07/25/copspeak/
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This brief video of Amish or Mennonite protesters made me realize that revulsion to the murder of Mr. Floyd is wider than I expected:
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And from Berlin, Germany:
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I saw in TV news many White people in the manifestations in the USA against the killing of George Floyd. Besides that, there are already manifestations in important cities in Europe against that killing. These demonstrations brought together people of all races.
This is good because it shows beyond any reasonable doubt where justice lays. And certainly is not with the bigots.
This kind of events – the killing of a civilian by a police agent – taint the reputation of the USA as a society. Any patriotic American should care. The leadership of the country should care too.
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Last night we tried to get into downtown L.A. but it was buttoned up preety tight. We did see police vehicles that had been tagged and a number of police vehicles had been destroyed.
This prompted the major to ask the govener to call in the national gaurd and ge called a curfew that nobidy paid attention too.
After that we went to the Fairfax/Melrose area of Los Angeles. This is a preety exclusive area near West Hollywood and about a ten minute drive from Beverly Hills.
Melrose consists of chic boutiques selling over priced stuff. We witnessed looting going on there as the police were in other areas. I think I should mention that these looters weren’t “poor” based on the nice cars they were loading their loot into.
We went to another area on Faifax where there was a police line. Demonstrators there were young and diverse and some looked from upper classes based on the style of dress.
It wouldn’t surprise me if some of the young people were from Beverly Hills since this is close by there.
Eventually the police line moved down clearing people out. You could feel the police tension.
I think this uprising will continue as there is wide spread support across diverse groups.
Trump may invoke the Insurection Act which comes into play if States can’t get a handle on the protests.
That would be like throwing gas on a fire. He does that then I suspect the protesters would gain even more support.
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i guess it will be some extra work fixing those stores up but how long is that going to take? this is ridiculous, the last riot in philly was 1964, checking…
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it’s not quite april 29th
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@ Afrofem @ Origin
I also wrote a White racist guide to talking about riots:
https://abagond.wordpress.com/2015/05/05/the-white-racist-guide-to-riots/
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@ Abagond
Thanks for that link!
Your post and the comments really dissected common finger-wagging talking points by non-Black people and Rented Negroes.
I really love the one about “destroying your own neighborhood”. It is usually accompanied by sneering comments about how Black people are “idiots” and “thugs”, etc. Local media that generally ignores the Black community will search for and interview some clueless Black person who will say the talking point for them.
Even on fictional television shows, some silly White character will trot out that meme.
Never mentioned are the numerous White riots that have occurred both historically and in the current moment. White rioters are never referred to as “looters” and “thugs”. Heck, the riots are not even riots. They are “fans having fun” at best or “disturbances” at worst.
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@ MJB
“Melrose consists of chic boutiques selling over priced stuff. We witnessed looting going on there as the police were in other areas. I think I should mention that these looters weren’t “poor” based on the nice cars they were loading their loot into.”
I wish I was surprised.
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@Afrofem, @abagond
Thanks for those links. It’s so blatant. Language is wielded as a tool to shape the narrative to be most favorable to the status quo.
Anyway, with the police responding to the situation their violence has caused with more repression, the people may have to respond. I saw a video a few days ago of a bus driver refusing to transport persons who were detained at a demonstration in New York.
That made me think that mass refusal to work when the economy has already been buffeted by COVID-19 would bring some “non-violent” pressure to bear. Many of the people who’ve been forced to physically go to work during this pandemic are also minorities at a higher risk of being harassed by cops.
The system worships property and money just like the rich people who run it do. The broadness of the current demonstrations combined with the disruptions caused by the pandemic opens the biggest window for unified action in a long time.
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Philly is tore up, the mayor actually said on tv they were afraid of ‘losing’ city hall and the main police bldg. (municipal services), wow,
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Some parallels drawn between Hong Kong and the US regarding protests against unchecked state power and police brutality:
Hong Kong and Minneapolis protesting in solidarity: A grassroots resistance against police violence
https://hongkongfp.com/2020/06/01/hong-kong-and-minneapolis-protesting-in-solidarity-a-grassroots-resistance-against-police-violence/
scroll down to see a “Be Water. F**k PoPo” sign in Minneapolis, a common meme from the HK protests in the past year.
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Global Times is spinning its fantastic consipiracy theories again.
This article is a series of pieces claiming that HK protesters are somehow the “mastermind” behind the “riots” in the US.
Yet for the past year, they have been claiming that the US government is the mastermind behind the HK protests.
So, should we conclude that the US government is the mastermind behind the George Floyd “riot” protests?
Unrest 101: HK rioters offer online tutorials on setting up roadblocks, evading police amid George Floyd protests
https://www.globaltimes.cn/content/1190144.shtml
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When are all the good people in the world going to stand up and say “ENOUGH”
‘ Bad things happen when good people do nothing ‘ This racism thing has been happening for hundreds of years all over the world, more so in America isn’t it about time it stopped, things need to change this can’t keep happening, c’mon world “ENOUGH ENOUGH ENOUGH”
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@jefe
It’s interesting that the CCP mouthpieces are spinning the George Floyd protests that way. It’s certainly less hypocritical that the US way of scolding other countries over human rights abuses while failing to address its own issues. The CCP has basically come in on the side of the US government and will claim, by analogy, that they’ll be justified in “pacifying” Hong Kong.
It just shows that – whatever their differences – repressive regimes are in fundamental solidarity when it comes to stepping on the people. Even royals who were indifferent towards the French monarchy were horrified at the French Revolution because of what it meant for the power of monarchies elsewhere in Europe.
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The United Nations has a Human Rights Charter that is supposed to protect minorities worldwide.
This Charter is grossly violated in countries like the USA and India.
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Much respect to the Mennonite community. Also if things are popping off i was enlightened that Antifa is the crew you want on your side to crack some Nazi heads. Antifa, sent those tiki torches carrying mouth breathers in Charlottesville on the run. Now our city is on curfew, from 7pm to 6am for several days. I am glad those cops in Atlanta were fired for tasing a young Black couple that was out during curfew and broke the windows of their vehicle. Law enforcement as it exists in the current moment, needs to be dismantled and if they are going to put it back together, it needs to incorporate mental health assessments and character assessment. They don’t protect and serve as they should.
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If the other three cops don’t get arrested. I can see them burning the rest of Minneapolis down. And if a not guilty verdict is rendered. Many major cities will experience more civil unrest.
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I do find it amusing how white folks like to try use MLK to shame Black folks about the protest. Many of them have never read Dr. Kings work, especially his Letters From A Birmingham Jail. White folks lost their collective minds over former NFL player Colin Kaepernick peacefully protesting by taking a knee. If Dr. King were living today and doing activism, they would have the same disdain for him that they have for Kaepernick
Also, the same white folks several weeks ago, were having temper tantrums and meltdowns, because they were ordered to stay home because we are in a deadly pandemic. Staying home and wearing mask so you don’t get sick and die or worse make someone else sick. They bought long guns and stormed the state house in Michigan, and got confrontational with police. They didn’t wear mask and spraying spittle in unmasked cops faces. They suffered no consequences. Black folks protest and get tear gas canisters and rubber bullets and curfews enforced in many major cities.
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Black cops are blue first.
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jefe wrote: “Global Times is spinning its fantastic consipiracy theories again.
This article is a series of pieces claiming that HK protesters are somehow the “mastermind” behind the “riots” in the US.
Yet for the past year, they have been claiming that the US government is the mastermind behind the HK protests.
So, should we conclude that the US government is the mastermind behind the George Floyd “riot” protests?”
No, you should conclude that some HK protesters take their ‘revolutionary’ zeal seriously enough to turn on their masters. That’s the common definition of the chickens coming home to roost. Remember Bin Laden and his merry crew? That was another case of the same. Hell, the US government has a name for it. “Blow back”.
The PRC is a conservative outfit looking out for the interests of China, they don’t do solidarity with rioters even it they are attacking an enemy like the USA. They fear blow back and the USA revels in it.
Weren’t you the guy praising Steve Bannon for being right on the PRC?
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What do you think of getting rid of “qualified immunity” ? This is part of what protects police officers from civil rights violations.
Representative Amash is putting this forward. He is know as a somewhat conservative but good on civil liberty issues. I think the only Republican to vote for Trumls impeachment both times.
Horrible on abortion though.
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@ Michael Barker
Thanks for embedding that tweet. Qualified Immunity coupled with numerous “Blue Lives Matter” laws in the states have created a shield of immunity around police for far too long. Workers on the public payroll should not be unaccountable to any members of the public.
It only took hundreds of Black/White/Indigenous and Latinx lives for anyone in Congress to propose ending police impunity. It only took three nights of vehement multiracial protest for a Repub (?!?). to say the obvious.
I’m still not holding my breath for any substantive change at this time. It will take more before change occurs. Talk is not enough.
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@ Mary Burrell
“White folks lost their collective minds over former NFL player Colin Kaepernick peacefully protesting by taking a knee.”
Well said. Loved your whole comment.
It is ironic that millions of White people raged about non-violent
defianceprotest by a biracial man. A biracial man with more “Black consciousness” than the majority of Black politicians, clergy and so-called “leaders” in the Black community.I’m also reminded that the national media misrepresented the symbolism of Kaepernick’s protest. They are also part of the problem.
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@ MJB
Your comment upthread about upscale looting in Melrose came to mind last night when the local news showed affluent young White people streaming out of a high-end suburban mall loaded down with stolen merchandise. The reporter seemed shocked.
There is a lot of opportunism in this moment. Some people who could care less about George Floyd are taking advantage of the upheaval to get some old fashioned “five finger discounts”.
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Two random observations:
1) Police are being paid overtime to fire rubber bullets and tear gas at protestors.
2) Most celebrities and other privileged people are reeal quiet right now.
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“The looting itself seems to be a mix of fury because of the killing and opportunism by many who wanted to vent their anger not only because of the killing but also of the recent restrictions in their daily lives (people become nervous when locked, I think! like other animals!) and because much of the financial resources they enjoyed a few months ago, had evaporated during the lockdowns, etc”
I am going to disagree somewhat with Solitaire.
This uprising is mostly driven by American youth. Add the unemployed, activists and thats a lot of people in the streets.
Young people have been impacted by school closures, some of their employment as well as places they congregate restricted.
Here in L.A. the skate parks were closed but that didn’t keep skaters from climbing over the fences and skating anyway. The city reacted by using trucks to dump sand in the skate areas to make them unusable.
The skaters, like worker bees, moved the sand out and dumped it at the entrance to the skate park to block future dump trucks and police acces.
So youth already had an anti authortarian streak within themselves.
They were told that sheltering in and school closures would keep them safe from the pandemic. But since the majority of the infected were older then to them it was just “old people” who got it.
Then this event happens and the opportunity to go into the streets to protest is just to great to pass up.
If the virus does come back in a second wave I just don’t see young people complying.
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Glen Greenwald throws ice water on the “outside agitator” bs the media is serving up as hot soup:
TPTB are still using this worn out canard since they are loathe to face the reality of Black people’s legitimate rage. What’s next? “Demon dust” made Black folks angry?
SMH
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@ Origin
” Most celebrities and other privileged people are reeal quiet right now.”
Yes, they are. Generally they weigh in with hollow gestures of support that support their brands. Right now, it is just the sound of crickets coming from their direction. Hmm.
bemused smile
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Everyone I talk to over here about Floyd’s death is disgusted by it. Trump is getting into unfamiliar territory that I am sure he doesn’t know how to navigate!
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Seeing cops hugging and kneeling with protesters. I am not buying it.
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I’ve been stopped by the police more times than I can count. They’re usually polite or at least professional. But there have been a handful who were rude and deliberately sought to provoke me. I’ve even had my vehicle illegally searched. So what? I wasn’t doing anything illegal. All it cost was a few minutes of my time. I’m willing to tolerate a little inconvenience if it helps them catch criminals. I support law and order and think the police do a beautiful job.
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@ Monica – “So what? I wasn’t doing anything illegal. All it cost was a few minutes of my time.”
You do realise that a lot of the black people stopped aren’t doing anything illegal either – and ‘all’ it costs them is their lives.
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@villagewriter
Good to hear from you again. Your voice was missed.
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@ Monica
Go on YouTube and you can find numerous videos of cops planting evidence during car searches or pat downs.
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If people were really worried about police misconduct then they wouldn’t speed. Because that’s the most common interaction most people have with them. Yet I see people blowing past me on the highway at 80mph. They don’t seem scared of the police to me.
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The police get too much credit. They are not REALLY responsible for causing a society to work according to its established rules. It is really a collective decision by members of a society to “play by the rules”. Actually, official corruption (eg. by politicians and in the police force) can cause loss of legitimacy and a breakdown of “law and order”. In the moments when a critical mass of people decide to collectively disobey, there is no saving the status quo.
The police didn’t go on strike before looting and burning took place in cities across the country. People simply said, “F it”. while the police could, at best, react belatedly. Thinking that the threat of police action makes a society work while dialing up the inequality and doubling down on police brutality risks provoking more extreme civil disobedience. It would be better to work on building a fairer society but I’m not holding my breath.
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Will the BLM bring about change, it seems like we keep revisiting history. I am down for the cause. Why must we continue to fight for basic human rights!?!
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Maybe Syria could send the U S. weapons.
https://e.newsletters.cnn.com/click/EdG9reW9kd2VsbGVyQGdtYWlsLmNvbQ/CeyJtaWQiOiIxNTkwODE0MjQ3OTg4OGZkYWU0ZTc5NDEzIiwiY3QiOiJjbm4tYWQ0ZGRjNWU1NjY2ZDdkMDRkYmE0NmFhZTlmMTRmZTctMSIsInJkIjoiZ21haWwuY29tIn0/HWkhfQ05OX2lfTmV3c19OREJBTjA1MzAyMDIwMjExMTY2MSxjbm5uZXdzLGh0dHBzOi8vd3d3Lndhc2hpbmd0b25wb3N0LmNvbS9vcGluaW9ucy8yMDIwLzA1LzI5L2hvdy13ZXN0ZXJuLW1lZGlhLXdvdWxkLWNvdmVyLW1pbm5lYXBvbGlzLWlmLWl0LWhhcHBlbmVkLWFub3RoZXItY291bnRyeS8/s0fe3a5fff8
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What a waste of your riot rights! This energy of — entirely justifiable — rage could find a better vent than looting. I wish it would be channaled to Moscow instead.
Kremlin is clapping all its senile hands at the sight of the USA breaking into war kingdoms based on races and ethnicities.
It should be more than just a racial cause, otherwise you will just feed our junta and secret service agents.
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@Afrofrem
I come to Abagond’s corner whenever I can!
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“The police didn’t go on strike before looting and burning took place in cities across the country.”
They didn’t go on strike. But they were ordered to stand down. Police could easily end the riots. Thinking otherwise is silly.
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@ Monica
If you are so law-abiding and support law and order, then why do you say:
“I’ve been stopped by the police more times than I can count.”
What’s going on that you’ve been stopped that many times?
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Just like I first thought. Derek Chauvin should’ve at least been charged with 2nd degree murder.
George Floyd Death: Derek Chauvin’s Now Faces 2nd-Degree Unintentional Murder; 3 Other Officers Charged – WCCO | CBS Minnesota
https://minnesota.cbslocal.com/2020/06/03/george-floyd-death-derek-chauvins-murder-charge-upgraded-to-2nd-degree-unintentional-murder-3-other-officers-charged/
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Police don’t prevent people from breaking the law. People do it all the time. Most of the time the police are simply not there, because they can’t be everywhere. The police are reactive. The primary thing that prevents crimes is people deciding to follow the law. In times of mass civil disobedience, that changes on a large scale. Already police resources are split between bothering peaceful protesters and responding to reports of crimes.
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Update: After the worst week of civil unrest the US has seen since the 1960s, the other three police officers have at last been charged with a crime: aiding and abetting murder. And Chauvin’s 3rd-degree murder charge has been upped to 2nd degree. This comes after the case was taken from Mike Freeman, the (White) county prosecutor, and given to Keith Ellison, the (Black) state attorney general, as the Floyd family wanted.
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If you keep your knee on a guy’s neck for nine minutes, I’m sure that’s intentional.
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Exactly Mary.
I still haven’t watched the full video of Mr Floyd’s lynching and I also feel as if language lacks the words to express what I think about it.
We have a man suffocated in the street by agents of the state after being apprehended for, possibly unknowingly, passing on a counterfeit $20. At the same time the Federal Reserve is gleefully conjuring up trillions of dollars out of thin air to give to their banker friends while people are unemployed in record numbers. Then the government arrested thousands of people who protested the injustice of Mr Floyd’s murder while the killer kops remained free for days.
What words in the English language can unmask the perversity and express abhorrence in a concise way? This is more than a murder, it is symptomatic of a deeply deranged norm. The most shocking thing about it, is that none of it is shocking. The underlying psychopathic personality makes atrocities and their subsequent justification as “natural” as a python attacking a rodent dropped into its enclosure.
What do you call the process of preying on people emotionally, economically, and physically? Because Mr. Floyd’s graphic public killing was not a tragic isolated incident but a stark manifestation of the normal functioning of a predatory system. How does one express that without writing an essay each time? We need a word which means “black person was savagely lynched by ravenous supremacist system acting on its cultivated instincts”.
That’s what happened to George Floyd. That’s what happened to Sandra Bland. That’s what happened to Trayvon Martin. That’s what happened to Ahmaud Arbery. That’s what happened to many others in less dramatic or public circumstances. It’s not just random disconnected violence, but the outworking of an underlying evil.
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@ Mary Burrell
Agreed.
Those murdering cops were the very picture of calm intention.
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@ Origin
“We have a man suffocated in the street by agents of the state after being apprehended for, possibly unknowingly, passing on a counterfeit $20. At the same time the Federal Reserve is gleefully conjuring up trillions of dollars out of thin air to give to their banker friends while people are unemployed in record numbers.”
That is the sickening irony of that arrest and murder.
I also thought all of the pearl clutching about “looters” was ironic. The people at the top of the economic system have been in “wild looter mode” for the past 40 years.
They have pilfered funds from public school systems (kindergarten to post grad), swindled people out of their homes and made healthcare unaffordable. They have stolen money that should have been used for roads, bridges, public water systems, bullet trains and universal broadband/internet.
When COVID-19 burst on the scene, they pressured the states not to process unemployment claims because they wanted to force people to work or starve—–while they sucked up billions of dollars more from government ‘no questions asked’ handouts to corporations.
Since their looting was socially approved and they were lionized the media as corporate heroes, most people never thought of their gang activity as looting. Just ‘business as usual’.
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@ Solitaire
“What’s going on that you’ve been stopped that many times?”
All the towns in the area were funded with speeding tickets. And the police budgets came out of it. So the police were literally working on commission!
“If you are so law-abiding and support law and order”
Technically, speeding is against the law. But most states consider speeding to be an “infraction” not a crime. Speeding isn’t even a misdemeanor in most states unless you’re driving at least 15 miles over the limit.
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Would be a twist of fate if any of the fired Minneapolis policemen caught the coronavirus from the man they killed!
George Floyd had coronavirus, autopsy says
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/george-floyd-tested-positive-coronavirus-april-autopsy-says-n1224396
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@Afrofem
The perverse “business as usual” involves defining away the kind of looting you describe so that it’s not considered criminal. Meanwhile the militarized police force is tasked with protecting all that loot from the masses from which it was extracted.
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@ Monica
In other words, you got pulled over frequently because even after you realized the police in the area went after speeders aggressively, you continued to speed.
I have absolutely no sympathy for you. I grew up in a very small town, among other small towns in an area that had a reputation for “speed traps.” We saw it differently: out-of-towners would get off the interstate and continue to drive at high speeds, blasting through the main streets of our towns and putting our drivers and pedestrians at risk. Every town in my area that is considered a speed trap by the city folks not only has speed limit signs clearly posted but warning signs on the highways that tell the driver they are approaching a change in the speed limit as they near the town. Yet the city drivers ignore it.
“most states consider speeding to be an ‘infraction’ not a crime.”
All that means is you can’t be put in jail for speeding in and of itself. An infraction is a petty offense but it’s still breaking the law.
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Today the Supreme Court may review “qualified immunity “. The justices are reviewing cases on police misconduct and the constitutionality of “qualified immunity.” They can I believe decide not to review it so hopefully the pressure within the country will will force them to address it.
In the meantime Justin Amash (L) and congresswoman Ayanna Pressley (D) have co-authord a bill to end qualified immunity.
Simularly some Senate Democrats are working on a bill.
Doing away with qulaifid immunity would allow citizens to sue the police personally for civil rights violations ect.
https://lawandcrime.com/george-floyd-death/left-libertarian-alliance-introduces-house-bill-to-end-qualified-immunity-for-police-officers/
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[…] stories by African American authors. All of this work is very timely, given the current state of racial injustice that we are […]
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@ Solitaire
“I have absolutely no sympathy for you.”
I never asked for sympathy. And I’m not the one complaining about the police. Nice try, though.
Have you never had a speeding ticket?
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@ Monica
Never. I can count the times I’ve been pulled over on one hand, and they were all for lights being out. I was given written warnings twice, the other was verbal. That’s it.
Have you never thought that the way the police treat you during a traffic stop may not be the same way the police treat blacks and indigenous people under the same circumstances? Or that just because you aren’t complaining, it doesn’t mean their complaints aren’t valid?
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“Police officers today are a protected class, one no politician wants to oppose. Law enforcement interests may occasionally come up short on budgetary issues, but legislatures rarely if ever pass new laws to hold police more accountable, to restrict their powers, or to make them more transparent.
In short, police today embody all of the threats the Founders feared were posed by standing armies, plus a few additional ones they couldn’t have anticipated.
This isn’t to say we’re in a police state, a term that’s often misused. Generally speaking, we’re free to travel. We don’t face mass censorship. We still have habeus corpus. And the odds of any single person being victimized by a wrong-door raid, shot or beaten by a cop, or otherwise victimized by militarized police violence are slim to nil. But perhaps we have entered a police state writ small. At the individual level, a police officer’s power and authority over the people he interacts with day to day is near complete. Absent video, if the officer’s account an incident differs from that of a citizen— even several citizens— his superiors, the courts, and prosecutors will nearly always defer to the officer. If other officers are nearby, there are policies in place—official and unofficial—to encourage them to back one another up. Even if the officer does violate the citizen’s rights, the officer is protected by qualified immunity.”
― Radley Balko, Rise of the Warrior Cop: The Militarization of America’s Police
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Systemic U.S. racism = American Apartheid?
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so, this case gets more and more interesting. Floyd seemed like he was trying to be reformed from his criminal youth, but he was a pRon star (look it up) and he was hopped up on fentanyl and meth, in addition to having Covid, which very likely contributed to his death. He didn’t deserve to die for resisting arrest, but he’s not really the saint he’s being made out to be. Turns out 2 of the cops were trainees who had only been on the job for a few days and tried to tell their supervisor maybe he should change positions. Think they’ll get convicted of murder? And if they walk, it’s more riots and looting ruining primarily urban non-white neighborhoods…
The crazy thing is things were getting better. The numbers of unarmed blacks killed by cops were a fraction of what they were under Obama. It was like 10 all of last year and in most cases the cops had good reason to act the way they did. In a couple of the cases the cops were charged. So you’re more likely to get struck by lightening than be an unarmed black person not attacking the cops and die from it…. the Washington Post’s own numbers showed unarmed whites were more likely to be killed. And non-white cops are more likely to kill than white cops.
But it doesn’t matter. the media wants to use this to crush Trump, so they make it seem like there’s this epidemic of cops killing people. We’ll see if they succeed, but I don’t see this healing the country–it will only make things more divided.
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@ Solitaire
“Have you never thought that the way the police treat you during a traffic stop may not be the same”
I think that, for the most part, police officers treat people the same. Think of it like the cashier at Walmart. They see people all day long. They don’t care. They’re just scanning your stuff. Cops are stopping people all day long, too. They don’t care. They’re just writing up tickets and handling calls. The difference is that they’re also looking to catch people for more serious things. If someone is acting suspicious, nervous, angry, running their mouth, etc then they’re going to get extra attention.
There’s also an interesting element you may not have considered. It’s not so much that officers treat different people differently so much as different people treat officers differently. I remember listening to a black guy on the radio talking about this years ago. I think it may have been Ken Hamblin. Anyway, he said he used to do ride-alongs with police officers. And that they would pull over speeders. He said they would occasionally get someone who was rude or had a bad attitude but that it was shocking how much more it happened with black drivers and how so many of them accused the officers of racism for pulling them over. He said that wasn’t the case. They were just pulling them over the same as any other driver.
I’ve never been stopped for failure to properly maintain my vehicle. That’s dangerous.
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This is for Biff and Monica to watch as it deals with much of what they have been bringing up. .
Candace Owens yesterday released a statement on a FB stream regarding Geroge Floyd that covers the issues Biff here seems to worry about as well as how police and other non whites interact with police.
Black libertarian Larry Sharp breaks her statement down piece by piece by piece and just obliviiates it.
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I just ran “Dividing the country” through the whitespeak translator:
It said:
“Dividing the country” = not turning a blind eye to America’s racism.
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“We revolt simply because, for many reasons we can’t breathe. _Franz Fannon.
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@ Monica
“I’ve never been stopped for failure to properly maintain my vehicle.”
You change your lights before they burn out? If so, you’re the first person I’ve heard of who does.
But this also happened when I was much younger. I haven’t been pulled over in many years. I learned from my mistake and starting keeping a much closer watch on my lights. I also learned to change them myself, so I can take care of it immediately.
You, on the other hand, by your own admission continued to speed even after you figured out the police in the area were diligent about stopping speeders. You continued to break the law more times than you can remember.
“That’s dangerous.”
I’m willing to bet driving in excess of the speed limit has caused and contributed to more fatal accidents than driving with one headlight.
“I think that, for the most part, police officers treat people the same.”
There has been study after study proving this statement false.
“Think of it like the cashier at Walmart. They see people all day long. They don’t care. They’re just scanning your stuff.”
Again, not true. I’ve seen them treat people worse based on skin color, EBT use, wearing hijab, having a foreign accent, being deaf, using a wheelchair, etc. And if we extend your statement to all store personnel, study after study has proven POC are more likely to be tailed while shopping and more likely to be falsely accused of shoplifting.
“There’s also an interesting element you may not have considered. It’s not so much that officers treat different people differently so much as different people treat officers differently.”
Go to YouTube and you can find video after video of white people, especially white women, mouthing off to cops, being rude and having a bad attitude, and totally getting away with it.
It is a statistical fact that per capita more unarmed African Americans and Native Americans are killed by the police than any other group.
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“I think that, for the most part, police officers treat people the same.”
Hmm. White perceptions. How distorted they can be when a White person is on the outside looking in and relying on White owned media (television, movies, books, magazine articles, websites and radio) for how Black people experience their daily lives? It seems White perceptions can be as distorted as a carnival fun house mirror.
In 1963, 46 percent of White Americans thought Black people had access to equal opportunities in employment, housing and education. Talk about delusional perceptions! In 1963 no less.
Not much has changed. According to a 2016 Pew Research Center survey:
https://www.pewsocialtrends.org/2016/06/27/on-views-of-race-and-inequality-blacks-and-whites-are-worlds-apart/
No wonder the survey authors found, “An overwhelming majority of blacks (88%) say the country needs to continue making changes for blacks to have equal rights with whites, but 43% are skeptical that such changes will ever occur.
I suppose those distortions occur when people forget to stop talking and start listening.
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Another lie that I have heard from white folks about there being more white people killed by police than black people. This is such a lie.
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@ Solitaire
“You change your lights before they burn out?”
Obviously not. But I do check. Which is why I’ve never been stopped for it. You admit yourself that you haven’t been pulled over since you’ve made an effort. So, clearly, you had some control over it.
“I learned from my mistake”
After you were pulled over several times. Better late than never, I suppose. The important thing is that you’ve turned your life around.
“But this also happened when I was much younger.”
Of course. Many younger drivers lack the maturity to drive responsibly.
“There has been study after study proving this statement false.”
Yes. People do lots of studies. I’m not against studies. Some are valid. Others are so obviously flawed it’s hard to believe someone would cite them as evidence. Of course, you didn’t actually cite any. And I’m not asking you to because I don’t care enough to read them.
“I’ve seen them treat people worse based on skin color, EBT use, wearing hijab, having a foreign accent, being deaf, using a wheelchair, etc.”
Was it a “microaggression”? I’ve sometimes wondered if people have microaggressed against me. Then I realized that I don’t care.
“Go to YouTube and you can find video after video of white people, especially white women, mouthing off to cops, being rude and having a bad attitude, and totally getting away with it.”
I’m sure one can. People love watching videos that confirm their biases. Do you spend much time doing that?
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@ Monica
“After you were pulled over several times.”
I already told you exactly how many times I was pulled over: “I was given written warnings twice, the other was verbal.” If you’re having trouble with the math, that equals three. I don’t consider three to be “several” and certainly not more times than I can count, like your speeding violations.
“You admit yourself that you haven’t been pulled over since you’ve made an effort. So, clearly, you had some control over it.”
And you admitted yourself that you didn’t make an effort to stop speeding, even though every driver here knows you have complete control over it.
“Better late than never, I suppose. The important thing is that you’ve turned your life around.”
That’s cute, an unapologetic repeat offender being condescending to me. When are you going to turn your life around and stop bragging that the police have pulled you over more times than you can count?
“Of course. Many younger drivers lack the maturity to drive responsibly.”
So do many older drivers who continue to break the law even after they’ve lost count of how many times they’ve been pulled over. Your license ought to be revoked.
Your mistake is you came to a predominately POC blog thinking you could set yourself up as an example that the police have no bias, because you’ve been pulled over more times than you can count and nothing bad has ever happened to you.
What you’ve actually done is reveal your white privilege. You don’t care about the repercussions of racking up that many speeding tickets: how it looks to any officer who runs your license or to the judge in traffic court or to your insurance company.
Either that, or you’ve managed to wheedle your way out of a ticket every single time, which simply reveals how much you’ve relied on white privilege and white women’s tears to get you out of trouble when you knowingly did wrong.
“And I’m not asking you to because I don’t care enough to read them.”
Of course you don’t care. You came here to lecture and browbeat the nonwhites, not to learn something or even for an honest exchange of opposing ideas.
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@ Solitaire
“Of course you don’t care. You came here to lecture and browbeat the nonwhites, not to learn something or even for an honest exchange of opposing ideas.”
Monica has done such a mediocre job of “lecturing and browbeating” that she’s come off as incredibly silly and tone deaf instead.
Monica has functioned as an Amy Cooper. LOL!
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This is also what’s happening in MN.
Copied from Erica Hanna via Lois Johnson:
“People outside of MN…I need you to understand something: While police are busy arresting peaceful protestors, and community residents on neighborhood watch for arsonists…folks from Minneapolis have literally CREATED SELF SUSTAINING NEIGHBORHOOD CARE SYSTEMS to protect each other and their homes from white supremacists that CONTINUE to terrorize the city(but get zero press, because cops are too busy focusing on peaceful folks at the memorial of George Floyd).
Every night, friends of mine posts dozens of instances of chasing unmarked cars, white supremacists, and strangers away from black-owned businesses, residential housing, and areas with food donations.
They have assigned mental health help, rideshares (because metro transit still isn’t running, and people can’t get to grocery stores or pharmacies), food drives, neighborhood meetings to talk a out suspicious activity, medic services, guidelines to avoid racial bias in community watch, arranging shelter for displaced families, narcan relief for people in need, and even translation services
for Latino, Hmong, and Somali communities.
These efforts are quite literally INCREDIBLE to witness, and law enforcement is taking credit for the peace and order – but they are not responsible for it.
The people deserve credit. They are working their asses off. Before, I never understood how “community” care could cut down on policing….but I’m seeing now just how many police calls happen because folks simply need their meds, are in crisis, need a mental health professional, need shelter, etc…and how much can be done by neighbors who know and love each other. When in other instances police in the past have arrived and escalated the stress/caused more violence and fear than needed for vulnerable people in need. This is eye opening.”
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From a protester in Buffalo:
“So I went to a protest in Buffalo last night. Me and my friends were all pretty enraged and we wanted to make our presence and support for the people in buffalo known. I have very mixed feelings on that, which means very positive and also very negative.”
“First, the positive: We marched around the city for quite a distance after the curfew, and during that time we were regularly greeted with cheers and claps from uninvolved buffalo residents. Buffalo is a blue city, but it’s not culturally left at all, so this was a nice surprise. I think people are sick of the cops, generally, across the board. They want something done and are happy to see people showing out to demonstrate for that cause.”
“There were several conflicts with locals as well, and these were deescalated consistently. Someone nearly got their ass kicked when a bike rubbed against someone’s car, but ultimately it ended amicably. We do not need to be warring with the common people of a city, whether or not they’re for the cause.”
“The negative: A consistent lack of consciousness raising. It was pretty much a hug fest, a place for people to vent and feel accepted and unchallenged. This leads to a lowest common denominator effect in terms of radicalism. Any chant that challenged the existence of the police was typically not echoed. “**** Donald Trump” was the most popular chant of the night. Your mayor and police department just tried to cover up the assault of one of your city’s long time activists. Where is the passion? Where is the fury?”
“We marched so we could avoid being kettled. We marched a long ways. But ultimately at the end of the nigth, back at the park where we started, we were surrounded by police. I dont know whether the plan for those that remained by the end was to be peacefully arrested. But **** that. **** “Linking arms”. I’d have happily engaged in open conflict with the police, but I’m not going to sit with you and get brutalized. The police circled us and me and my crew bailed out.”
“This movement will be killed by moving anywhere near the center of this issue, and losing the literal and metaphorical fire of its beginnings. There are more that support this than you know, including the very radical measures taken in Minneapolis. The time for the morality play is over. It’s time to organize based around revolt.”
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@ Afrofem
There’s something about her diction that is reminiscent of Paige.
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@ Solitaire
“I don’t consider three to be “several” and certainly not more times than I can count, like your speeding violations.”
Several, by definition, means three or more. So it’s accurate whether you think so or not. I, too, have been pulled over several times. “More times than I can count” was obvious hyperbole. I’m not sure of the exact number. Maybe half a dozen times when I was younger. I think that’s a lot. But all were less than 5 miles. And, for a couple of them, I’m not sure I was speeding at all. Who knows?
“And you admitted yourself that you didn’t make an effort to stop speeding,”
Did I? I don’t think so. In fact, I do make an effort not to speed.
“So do many older drivers who continue to break the law even after they’ve lost count of how many times they’ve been pulled over. Your license ought to be revoked.”
Maybe you should have asked if I still speed rather than assuming. I suspect you speed even though you claim not to. I think you said you don’t so that you could flog me for it.
I don’t even know what to say about the rest of your comment except it’s rude and, quite frankly, a little racist. But I’m willing to let it go. There’s no need to argue when we can be friends! 🙂
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A list of different proposals regarding police and justice reform that people are discussing.
End qualified immunity for law enforcement.
Repeal all laws for victimless crimes and shrink police forces to match.
End the failed war on drugs and pardon nonviolent offenders with no victim.
Hold police unions accountable and ban them form lobbying.
Require each officer to carry liability insurance similar to a doctor’s malpractice coverage.
End performance evaluations based on any kind of arrest rate or tickets written.
End ‘Broken window’ policing.
Re-evaluate probable cause (can be misused)
No internal investigations. Outside parties only
Defund the police (partially or completely) and divert funding to poor communities.
Make “duty to intervene” by police to stop police brutality and protections to those police who actually intervene and stop a police crime.
Ban “no knock raids”.
A National registry for police misconduct. Also require the police to keep records showing how many fatal shootings happen within their district.
Require police officers to live in the areas they police.
Fire any police who are members of the KKK, white supremacists groups or “constitutional” militias like the 3%’s.
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not sure why the double post
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@ Monica
“Several, by definition, means three or more. So it’s accurate whether you think so or not.”
Not exactly. Several is indefinite, meaning it has no exact numerical value. Many dictionaries will include in the definition that several is greater than two, but that simply means two doesn’t fall under the definition of several. It does not follow that three is necessarily and invariably indicated. In fact, I haven’t been able to find a definition that says “three or more,” only “greater than two” which is not exactly the same thing, especially when dealing with an indefinite pronoun.
Because several is indefinite, people’s perceptions of what several includes will vary, especially when contrasted with another indefinite determiner, “few.” If you poll a group of people, including grammarians, there will be variations as to what they believe these words signify. I consider three to fall under few and would not use several for anything under five. Your usage may vary.
“‘More times than I can count’ was obvious hyperbole. I’m not sure of the exact number.”
It wasn’t obvious.
“Maybe half a dozen times when I was younger.”
And now you’re backpedaling. You purposely made it sound like you’d been pulled over a great many times so you could claim to have wide experience in dealing with the police at traffic stops.
“Did I? I don’t think so. In fact, I do make an effort not to speed.”
I will grant you that. I was extrapolating from your impassioned defense of your speeding by blaming the police:
“All the towns in the area were funded with speeding tickets. And the police budgets came out of it. So the police were literally working on commission!”
It appeared to me that this was your rationale and justification for why you kept on getting speeding tickets.
“I suspect you speed even though you claim not to. I think you said you don’t so that you could flog me for it.”
Ah, but just like you said I misquoted you above, you’re misquoting me. You never asked me whether I speed. You asked me if I had never had a speeding ticket, and I answered you honestly that I have not. I’ve never even been pulled over or gotten a warning for speeding.
I was honest also about describing where I grew up, which is where I learned to drive. That background has made me extra cautious about speed limits near or within town boundaries. I have on occasion purposely gone above the speed limit on the interstate, but that was mostly back when the national speed limit was 55 mph, and even then I didn’t make a habit of it.
“I don’t even know what to say about the rest of your comment except it’s rude and, quite frankly, a little racist. But I’m willing to let it go.”
That actually should be the topic to focus on instead of all this hair-splitting about the definitions of indefinite pronouns and how many speeding tickets you think you might have gotten.
Please, explain to me how calling out your racism is in itself racist.
“There’s no need to argue when we can be friends!”
Oh, is that why you came to Abagond’s blog — to make friends?
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@ Solitaire
Agreed. Also a similar chauvinism. Part of the tone deaf wording.
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@ Michael Barker
Those proposals have been floating around activist circles for quite a while. I’m glad they are finally being aired in a (hopefully) newborn movement.
What I’m finding interesting are the nearly all White protests against police brutality and impunity in low and middle income exurbs and small towns outside of Seattle.
These are areas with a lot of trailers and shabby housing. Sometimes they are cheek to jowl with fancier houses with two or three shiny pickups out front. Other times they are next to broken down barns and other farm outbuildings.
The protesters are committed enough to stand out in the rain and put up with occasional taunts from their more rightwing neighbors. Surprising.
I always thought of those areas as Trump Country. Perhaps I should re-evaluate that perception.
What has surprised you about these protests?
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Just saw this. Jane Elliot’s question and the audience response is priceless.
Nowhere to hide….
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The Philadelphia Inquirer had the nerve to write a headline with the words:
Buildings Matter, Too
Up to 40 non-Euro descent staffers started a protest against the Inquirer in response.
https://www.huffpost.com/entry/philadelphia-inquirer-staffers-launch-protest-after-newspapers-buildings-matter-too-headline_n_5ed8fa40c5b69b39db20bf25?qbi
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Afrofem points out the hypocrisy in All Buildings Matter…
So what about the billions in damage to buildings and infastructure in the middle east over the last twenty years from the U.S. governments foreign policy ? Apparently those buildings didn’t matter along with 100,000’s of human casualties.
The All Lives Matter crowd cheered that on.
I’m in favor of throwing this in their face at every opportunity. Everytime they talk about the Mexican border it’s All Borders Matter. Everytime they talk about vaccines it’s All Medicine Matters. Every time they talk about States rights, how about All Rights Matter. Every time they “defend” straight marriage, All Marriages Matter.
Let nothing that matters to them go unchecked ever again.
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@Afrofem
I had actually commented on the composition of the protests but lost my post due to a browser screw-up and couldn’t bother to rewrite. IMO, one key factor is that there are many disaffected people within the current system and the pain was amplified by COVID-19.
The powers that be have created an architecture so greedy that it steals from their own children and grandchildren who are supposed to “carry it on”. So you even have white Millenials and Gen-Z looking at the cronyism, monstrous debt and the ecological fallout of runaway capitalism and thinking that they don’t want business as usual either.
Take a look at this:
https://theintercept.com/2020/06/05/pentagon-war-game-gen-z/
Interesting scenario eh? Does this mean they know things are messed up but rather than fixing it at the root they’re “gaming” military scenarios to defeat any attempt to force change outside of the compromised rules of the ossified unequal system?
Sounds like “democracy” is working!
That is if you’re a big corporation with deep pockets to buy politicians, to get laws passed in your favor, and to commandeer the power of the state to enforce them.
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@MJB
“Blue Lives Matter” -> All Workers Matter
“So what about the billions in damage to buildings and infastructure in the middle east over the last twenty years from the U.S. governments foreign policy ? Apparently those buildings didn’t matter along with 100,000’s of human casualties.”
Historical buildings torn down to gentrify neighborhoods don’t matter either. The concern is always so selective.
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@ Solitaire
“In fact, I haven’t been able to find a definition that says “three or more,” only “greater than two” which is not exactly the same thing”
Most people would consider three to be “greater than two”
“It wasn’t obvious.”
It also wasn’t obvious to you that three is greater than two.
“You purposely made it sound like you’d been pulled over a great many times”
You seemed to think so when you were flogging me over it. I think it’s a lot of times to be pulled over, too. Especially considering I never went more than 5 miles over. Most officers won’t even write tickets for less than 5 miles over. Yes, I do think that funding their budgets out of speeding tickets helps explain it.
“You never asked me whether I speed. You asked me if I had never had a speeding ticket, and I answered you honestly that I have not.”
You were flogging me for doing something that you do yourself???
“Please, explain to me how calling out your racism is in itself racist.”
I believe I was calling out your racism. Please, explain to me how your racist stereotypes and insults aren’t racist.
“Oh, is that why you came to Abagond’s blog — to make friends?”
Sure. Why not? 🙂
(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FgS50Y06bnY)
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I just saw this:
https://www.kare11.com/article/news/local/george-floyd/minneapolis-city-council-announces-plan-to-dismantle-police-department/89-a2260d74-4e21-4069-9b06-735aafba95cd
Very interesting development.
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@ Afrofem
That video doesn’t show what she claims. I’ve seen her before. She’s extremely abusive. She would have attacked and berated anyone who stood up. And no one wants to be subjected to that. That’s the real reason no one stood up.
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It takes 1500 hours to get a beautician certificate to legally braid hair. And they you got to pay a hefty license fee.
It takes 840 hours at the police academy to become a police officer whose job in part is too make sure businesses are compliant in poor and working class neighborhoods.
That’s part of the occupation. Shake people down who have sh*tty jobs at Target and extract fees from black and brown entrepreneurs besides brutalizing random people.
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@ Origin
Interesting possibility you are alluding to, in your last comment: that a community could live without a police department as we know it.
I must honestly say that I’m very skeptical of that. I’m not anarchist or something similar, and I believe that institutions of a modern state as they exist in many countries, are necessary. What can happen is that they are not working properly for various reasons in a specific society and at a specific time. This is what happens in America with the Police at the various levels right now. A reform is needed. Not necessarily a disbanding.
This is my take in the issue.
P.S.:
Racism in America is a problem of the society as a whole and crosses several areas. Because of that it affects the Police too. So the solution of the problem of racism will require even more efforts and at a larger scale than simple reforming the Police.
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Camden New Jersy completely redid their police department. So it possible to gut a department and restructure it to work for the community.
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-06-04/how-camden-new-jersey-reformed-its-police-department
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I think the proper way to deal with moments in history like this (and all the other moments in history, for that matter) is to accommodate yourself to the status quo, no matter how wretched and unjust, and shoot down any possible reforms as “unrealistic”. Unless of course you are a billionaire. Especially one in the fossil fuel industry. #BillionaireLivesMatter
/sarcasm off
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@ Abagond
Yeah. Billionaires, Buildings and Blue Lives Matter——but Black Lives still don’t.
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@ Origin
Wish I was surprised by the military planning to squelch domestic protests. Since they pocket most of our tax dollars and spend them on invasions, black ops, multibillion dollar “weapons systems” and killer robots they want to keep that juicy gravy train going. A lot of jostling at that trough.
Who needs schools, housing, healthcare, water systems, roads, bridges and high speed rail when you have the F-35?
https://www.airforcetimes.com/opinion/commentary/2020/03/02/congress-is-ultimately-to-blame-for-f-35-fiasco/
Thanks for the links.
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@ Afrofem
“I always thought of those areas as Trump Country. Perhaps I should re-evaluate that perception.”
Just my personal opinion, but coming from an area like that, there’s always been a mix, never as solidly red or conservative as the media makes it seem.
Also, before Reagan broke the unions, many of those areas were strongly Democrat.
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@ Michael Barker
Followed your Camden, NJ link. I saw what happened in Camden differently. I saw a restructuring, but not a wholesale gutting and transformation. They seemed to simply regionalize law enforcement workers.
The new regionalized force uses more surveillance to present themselves as “new and improved”. According to the article:
Also, the ethnic composition of the police force still does not reflect the ethnic composition of the city’s residents—–a recipe for present and future problems.
Finally, there is still great resistance to a civilian review board. That means local police are still not accountable to the people who pay their salaries.
Bloomberg overhyped this story of “remaking” this police department. It is pretty easy for people whose lives are relatively unaffected by police to tout minor cosmetic changes as transformational—–in someone else’s neighborhood.
After all, the police don’t station cars at major thoroughfares in middle class White neighborhoods. They come only when called and treat middle class and affluent White residents with a modicum of respect. If the police followed this playbook in Black communities, that would really be transformational.
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@ Solitaire
Agreed. I’m living and learning.
Life is full of nuance and surprising twists.
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@ Monica
I’ve been familiar with Jane Elliot’s work for years now.
From my perspective, Elliot is not “abusive”. She is extremely direct and willing to burst the bubble of White Fragility that many Euro-Americans float around in most of the time.
https://abagond.wordpress.com/2015/08/12/white-fragility/
The video did not just show the audience members not standing, it focussed in on their facial reactions, which were quite revealing in spite of the low quality of the video.
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@ Monica
“Most people would consider three to be ‘greater than two'”
I already tried to explain indefinite determiners to you. You either didn’t understand it or you’re playing dumb to win a tiny point. I can accept that you might regularly use several to indicate numbers starting with three, but I do not accept that there is a definite numerical value for several, which is an indefinite pronoun.
If you use “several” to indicate numbers starting at three, do you use “few” only to indicate the number two? What is your conceptualization of the number range covered by each word? At what number does “several” end and “many” begin?
“Most officers won’t even write tickets for less than 5 miles over.”
Your personal opinion, or can you provide stats? Also, how low the posted speed limit was and whether you were in a residential area can make a big difference.
“You were flogging me for doing something that you do yourself???”
Why not? You came here to flog black people for not being law-abiding, when you yourself don’t obey the law.
“I believe I was calling out your racism. Please, explain to me how your racist stereotypes and insults aren’t racist.”
What exactly did I say to you that you consider a racist stereotype or racist insult?
“Sure. Why not?”
You have an odd way of trying to make friends.
“I’ve seen her before. She’s extremely abusive.”
Not true. She only berates white people, and even then she’s mostly harsh to the artificial outgroup she creates using eye color. The point of the exercise is to have white people experience for a short time what POC go through every day of their lives. That’s called an immersion exercise. If you think she’s tough on her audience, imagine being treated like that constantly.
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Community policing currently taking place in Minneapolis. Armed citizens have organized to protect their communities.
(https://youtu.be/ovtLTPrB2MA)
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(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eFQkLp5u-No)
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From an interview with Jane Elliott:
How difficult has it been for you to continually, over the years, have to perform the role of a cruel, bigoted person who singles out people in a particular group and humiliates them and makes them feel inferior?
It’s very, very difficult. Doing that exercise for me is to deny everything that I believe in for three hours or five hours or however long the exercise takes. Every time I do it I end up with a migraine headache. I absolutely hate this exercise. But more than I hate the exercise, I hate the necessity for something like this in the year 2002. And the worst of it is that the exercise is as necessary today as it was in 1968….
Invariably, when I do a presentation anywhere in this country, the issue of affirmative action comes up. People say that white males are the ones who are being discriminated against in this country today. So I say, “Fine. OK. Will every white person in this room who would like to spend the rest of his or her life being treated, discussed, and looked upon as we treat, discuss, and look upon people of color, generally speaking, in this society, please stand?” And I watch. And wait. And the only sounds in the room are those made by people of color as they turn in their seats to see how many white folks are standing. Not one white person stands. And I just let them sit there. Then I say, “Do you know what you just admitted? You just admitted that you know that it’s happening, you know that it’s ugly, and you know that you don’t want it for you. So why are you so willing to accept it for others? The ultimate obscenity is that you deny that it’s happening.”…
What have been the reactions of people of color who have seen the film or participated in your exercise?
Reactions vary, of course. There are those blacks who ask me what a white woman like me is doing talking about their experience, since I can’t possibly know what it’s like to walk in their shoes. Sometimes I’m accused of just running another white woman’s game. Those are valid criticisms, but two weeks ago in Glasgow, Scotland — and this happens every time I give a lecture — a black woman came up to me and said, “You have no idea, you are the first white person ever in my life who has validated what I have said all my life and what I have experienced. Thank you.” I said, “You don’t have to thank me. Everything I know about this topic I’ve learned from people like you. It’s I who should be thanking you.” She said, “Oh, but you don’t understand. These are the things that we have been saying for years. Nobody would tell us that they believed us or that they felt the way we do. You validated me today.” I couldn’t walk in her shoes, but I could — and can and will — continue to truly listen and to try to understand and to tell others what I’ve learned…
Finally, could you talk a little about the dark side of what you’ve experienced over the years while lecturing and teaching your lesson on bigotry?
Yes. It’s been interesting. For instance, three carloads of blacks took me out of Uniontown, Penn., at midnight back in the mid-’70s because the teachers had called the superintendent of schools there and said, “If you don’t get that b—- out of town we’re going to shoot her.” I had done the exercise in a very informal way with a group of several hundred teachers, and the teachers were so angry that the committee who had arranged for me to come there had to get me out of town because they were truly afraid I was going to get shot….
I’ve been hit by a white adult male during the exercise. I’ve had a knife pulled on me by a young white male during the exercise….
I’ve had lots of that kind of stuff. I’m fully aware that it goes with the territory. But other people need to realize that this ugliness is still going on and that it’s still dangerous to stand up and be counted.
https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/article/an-unfinished-crusade-an-interview-with-jane-elliott/
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@ Afrofem
It dawns on me that Jane Elliott comes from that type of place, too:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Riceville,_Iowa
She grew up on a farm outside of Riceville and first did the exercise while teaching in Riceville, which at that time was under 900 pop.
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@ Afrofem
You’ve probably seen this before, but watch the segment that begins around the 12:30 mark. In just one day, her experiment began replicating the achievement gap.
(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1mcCLm_LwpE)
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@ Solitaire
Thank you for additional info about Jane Elliot.
I was first impressed by her directness on a podcast about seven years ago. She was so powerful in the way she stripped away the excuses and denials from some of the podcast hosts. I still chuckle about the verbal contortions some of them went through to “prove” they were not bigoted.
In the end, the only host that remained on even keel was a White man who was the least educated but just as intelligent as his more affluent White male and Asian female co-hosts. He was somewhat bemused by the reactions of his co-hosts. Very revealing.
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POLICING THE POLICE: THE IMPACT OF “PATTERN-OR-PRACTICE” INVESTIGATIONS ON CRIME
Tanaya Devi
Roland G. Fryer Jr [ed. Black economist and formerly Harvard’s highest paid prof]
Working Paper 27324
June 2020
ABSTRACT
This paper provides the first empirical examination of the impact of federal and state “Pattern-or-Practice” investigations on crime and policing. For investigations that were not preceded by “viral” incidents of deadly force, investigations, on average, led to a statistically significant reduction in homicides and total crime. In stark contrast, all investigations that were preceded by “viral” incidents of deadly force have led to a large and statistically significant increase in homicides and total crime. We estimate that these investigations caused almost 900 excess homicides and almost 34,000 excess felonies…
For investigations that were preceded by a viral incident of deadly force – Baltimore, Chicago, Cincinnati, Riverside and Ferguson – there is a marked increase in both homicide and total crime. The cumulative amount of crime that we estimate due to pattern-or-practice investigations in the two years after the announcement for this sample is 21.10 (5.54) per 100,000 for homicides and 1191.77 (429.50) per 100,000 for total felony crime. Put plainly, the causal effect of the investigations in these five cities – triggered mainly by the deaths of Freddie Gray, Laquan McDonald, Timothy Thomas, Tyisha Miller and Michael Brown at the hands of police – has resulted in 893 more homicides than would have been expected with no investigation and more than 33,472 additional felony crimes, relative to synthetic control cities.
To get a sense of how large this number is, the average number of fatal shootings of African American civilians by police officers in Baltimore, Chicago, Cincinnati, Riverside and Saint Louis, per year, is 12.5 Thus, even if investigations cured these cities of all future civilian casualties at the hands of police, it would take approximately 75 years to“break even.” Our estimates suggest that investigating police departments after viral incidents of police violence is responsible for approximately 450 excess homicides per year. This is 2x the loss of life in the line of duty for the US Military in a year, 12.6x the annual loss of life due to school shootings, and 3x the loss of life due to lynchings between 1882 and 1901 – the most gruesome years.
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Who can doubt we’ll have a “Minneapolis effect” in at least the next couple years? Hundreds if not thousands of Black men dying needlessly… Here’s a snapshot of one city..
From WTTW in Chicago:
‘What Are We Going To Have Left In Our Community?’ Aldermen React with Panic, Sorrow to Unrest
Heather Cherone | Paris Schutz | June 5, 2020 5:32 pm
As unrest swept the city Sunday, aldermen pleaded with Mayor Lori Lightfoot to help them protect their communities from roving bands of criminals clashing with police and looting businesses.
WTTW News obtained a recording of an online conference call held by the mayor’s office to brief all 50 aldermen on the city’s response to the unrest touched off by the death of George Floyd in the custody of Minneapolis police. …
Ald. Pat Dowell (3rd Ward) said she felt helpless to protect older residents, who she said were struggling to buy food and get prescription medicine.
“I’ve worked really hard over the last seven years and now I feel like I am five feet back,” Dowell said.
“I feel like I am at ground zero,” Harris responded. “My major business district is shattered. Why would Walmart or CVS come back to our communities?”
Ald. Emma Mitts (37th) said her West Side ward was like “the wild, wild west out there.”
Nearly five minutes into the call, Lightfoot speaks for the first time, saying she had been trying to speak for five minutes.
Lightfoot begins by defending her response to the unrest, telling the aldermen that criticism that she protected downtown at the expense of the West and South sides “offends me deeply, personally, in part because it is simply not so.”
“We’ve been working our a– off,” Lightfoot said. “It is all over the city.”
Lightfoot said it took three hours for officers to clear the area near Madison Street and Pulaski Road, and even after officers “gassed [the crowd] with pepper spray twice, they didn’t give a s–t.”
Lightfoot said officers were in “armed combat” with those intent on committing crimes on the West Side only making progress after bringing in “heavy equipment and stronger pepper spray.”
Lightfoot said a crowd of 30-40 people gathered outside a clothing store near 111th Street and Michigan Avenue as a “dude with a sledgehammer” broke into the store to allow it to be looted.
“I don’t know about you, but I haven’t seen s–t like this before, not in Chicago,” Lightfoot said. …
Lightfoot said she had no choice but to shut down the CTA after reports buses were being “commandeered” by “anarchists.”
… Ald. Derrick Curtis (18th) said he had called 911 to report looting, and got no answer. Rich Guidice, the director of the Office of Emergency Management and Communications, acknowledged that the system was overwhelmed.
“There are no easy answers here,” Lightfoot said.
Organized groups of criminals were responsible for the majority of looting in Chicago, prompting nearly 65,000 calls to the city’s emergency operations center, Lightfoot said
Ald. Susan Sadlowski-Garza (10th Ward) broke down while pleading with Lightfoot for help.
“My ward is a s–t show,” Sadlowski-Garza said, adding that cop cars and banks were burned. “They are shooting at the police.”
Sadlowski-Garza began to cry as she said the unrest began about 11 a.m. Sunday, when a group of 40 people broke into a marijuana dispensary, but had nothing to do with a protest.
“I have never seen the likes of this,” Sadlowski-Garza said. “I’m scared.”
Sadlowski-Garza wept as she told Lightfoot new businesses had been destroyed, while other shops were being protected by owners with shotguns.
“This is a massive, massive problem,” Lightfoot said. “People are just f—–g lawless right now.”
Ald. Raymond Lopez (15th Ward) demanded that Lightfoot develop a plan to stabilize Chicago’s neighborhoods for five days, calling his Southwest Side ward “a virtual war zone” where gang members armed with AK-47’s were threatening to shoot black people.
The call came to a screeching halt when Lightfoot declined to address the substance of Lopez’s remarks, and Lopez demanded that she respond.
Lightfoot told Lopez he was “100% full of s–t.”
“Well, f–k you then,” Lopez responded.
“I understand you want to preen,” Lightfoot told Lopez.
As aldermen objected, Lopez continued to speak.
“Mayor you need to check your f—–g attitude,” Lopez said.
That profane exchange was first reported by the Sun-Times. …
Ald. Ed Burke (14th Ward) said he was concerned that residents would take matters into their own hands and become vigilantes.
“This is far worse than it was in 1968,” said Burke, who was elected to the City Council in 1969.
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“Hundreds if not thousands of Black men dying needlessly…”
Spare us your fake concern about any Black person’s life, limbs or property. You come to this forum to toss your bigoted garbage on Black people. Part of your White privilege knapsack.
Black people are not considered human to Euro-American bigots like you.
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Afrofem, believe it or not, I have Black friends. Probably most of my close friends are non-white. We’re all human. That doesn’t mean different races don’t have different general characteristics. To draw a parallel (and could be any other animal you want, so don’t get caught up with it), someone can realize that different dog breeds have different general characteristics, while realizing that each is an individual and while being a dog lover generally. I take no pleasure in shootings increasing in mostly black neighborhoods, the way they already have and likely will for some time.
Rich whites who live in gated communities (mostly Democrat elites) maybe care less about getting rid of the police, but for most people it’s a terrible, suicidal idea—that somehow has become mainstream. Unbelievable.
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After behaving like gangsters for nearly 200 years and beating non-violent protesters non-stop over the past two weeks, some cops have a Faux News temper tantrum:
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biff,
The majority of your arguments are part of Abagond’s Broken Records Dept. One of the lamest is “Some of my best friends are black”. Many Black people have heard that one trotted out by White bigots all of their lives.
Abagond wrote this nearly eleven years ago and nothing has changed,
https://abagond.wordpress.com/2009/07/31/some-of-my-best-friends-are-black/
Repeating phony crime statistics and spreading smear campaigns against Black victims of police violence while claiming Black “friends” is a stereotype in itself.
Such behavior is pathetic.
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Afrofem,
This is in response to you saying that I don’t care at all about Black lives, which is an unfounded lie. What if I said Blacks crying racism is a “broken record”. Then anytime a black mentions “racism”, you could just ignore it without engaging with the substance of the argument (e.g., by going to the statistics and seeing what’s really going on). Neat! That’s basically what Abagond has done.
Anyway, if all statistics are phony to you, then you are not capable of learning until the violence comes to your neighborhood directly. That’s tragic. I was trying to share words directly from intelligent and reasonable Black voices so you could see what’s going on.. but you don’t have eyes to see.
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@ biff
Having Black friends as you say certainly you are in favor of the Black Lives Matter movement? Don’t you?
By the way this is already a worldwide movement! Hurraaaa…. Vivaaaa!
Do you agree, don’t you?
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munubantu,
You shall know a tree by its fruit. It is now said BLM means “defund the police”. That would be absolutely horrible for Black people. Even their protests after Ferguson, etc., likely cost thousands of incremental Black lives lost (if you look at the recorded homicides in major cities for the next few years). I believe this go around will cost much more. All because of an altercation between two men who are confirmed to have known each other previously and had bad blood (i.e., not a random police interaction.)
If BLM really cared for Black lives, they might try to get abortion clinics out of Black neighborhoods (more Black babies are aborted than born in cities like NYC for instance) and working on policies to keep Black families together.
If by worldwide you mean people can also riot and loot in London, well congrats on that. British cops are famously weak–and don’t even carry guns, but I guess if they back down further we can get more rape gangs and beheadings over there..
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Biff.
“POLICING THE POLICE: THE IMPACT OF “PATTERN-OR-PRACTICE” INVESTIGATIONS ON CRIME.”
Tanaya Devi
The author attempts to tie corrolation between rising homicide rates in areas after an incident of police violence like the death of Freddy Grey.
There are too many other factors that play into murder stats that are not considered in the study to make the above opinion valid.
This article briefly coves white/black crimes statics.
View at Medium.com
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https://heathercoxrichardson.substack.com/p/june-8-2020
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2020/06/07/defund-police-heres-what-that-really-means/
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In a comment above, written eleven days ago, I presented the views of two Africans, sympathetic to the cause of Black Americans. See https://abagond.wordpress.com/2020/05/29/george-floyd/comment-page-1/#comment-444105
I found another interesting testimony from a Nigerian woman, who spent many years of her life in England, and drawing from her own experiences there, can also feel and show sympathy for the plight of the Black American people. See edition.cnn.com/2020/06/10/africa/stephanie-busari-george-floyd-race-privilege-africa/index.html
She wrote,
and,
And despite the good things of the European life, after a while she was anxious to go back to the motherland,
So she understands clearly the plight of Blacks in America,
And she criticizes a fellow African woman living in the USA who fails to sympathize with Blacks in that country.
Mature thoughts. Interesting reading!
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@ Biff
It’s already been explained to you that there is no expert consensus on the existence of the Ferguson effect. Even the person who coined the term has since walked it back.
But let’s say, for argument’s sake, that the Ferguson effect does indeed exist in the exact manner that you state it does. If so, it indicates a problem with the police: that they refuse to do their jobs. If the police won’t do what the taxpayers pay them to do and what they swear in their oath to do, but instead slack off, they shouldn’t be allowed to keep those jobs.
Furthermore, why do you keep harping about the Ferguson effect on this blog? Do you think the regulars on this blog have been out every night looting and torching stores? The only individual here so far who even said he went out to just look at the unrest firsthand is a white male. And why don’t you have anything to say about the many white people who have been caught on camera breaking windows, vandalizing, and looting?
Do your black friends know you consider them to have different general characteristics than white people? Do your black friends know that you compare them to a dog breed?
Did you know that the genetic variation between dog breeds is approximately 27.5 percent, while the genetic variation between human populations is only 5.4 percent?
https://www.americanscientist.org/article/genetics-and-the-shape-of-dogs
Did you know that the genetic variations between human populations do not correspond to what we call race?
https://evolution-outreach.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s12052-019-0109-y
“I was trying to share words directly from intelligent and reasonable Black voices”
Susan Sadlowski-Garza and Ed Burke are white. Raymond Lopez is Mexican American and phenotypically white.
“If BLM really cared for Black lives, they might try to get abortion clinics out of Black neighborhoods (more Black babies are aborted than born in cities like NYC for instance)”
Why do you think it would help matters to force black women in impoverished urban neighborhoods to have more children than they want or can support?
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Solitaire:
All my human friends know I compare them to dogs, of course–no, how about cats, or sheep or horses–you’ll object to all of them I’m sure. Take any species you want and there are different variants. I’m sure you really believe Pygmies and Samoans are all just the same under their skin. I’ve seen it said the genetic difference between humans and chimps is close to 1%, yet few would say it’s not significant.
You and I are going to have to disagree on what constitutes “expert” opinion. Tim Wise is a paid shill whose job is to to support the blood sucking, self-righteous liberal establishment. Roland Fryer is a true academic, following the research results where they lead instead of where he wants them to. He’s far from a right wing flunkee.
Raymond Lopez is Mexican American and looks that way to me, but to you he’s a white Hispanic I guess. I call BS. I guess to you most folks in Central/South America are terrible people guilty of white privilege because they aren’t pure Aztec. You should listen to the mayor of Chicago in that exchange (easy to find if you want to). Truly shocking and scary. And you think getting rid of police will help. Anyway, I guess we’ll see. If getting rid of the police leads to much better results, I’ll admit you’re right–ain’t gonna happen.
Easy abortion causes people to use it as birth control. It’s advent led to MORE out of wedlock births, which are disastrous for any community–in addition to murdering most Blacks in communities like NY. It wasn’t always the way it is in the African American community. If there was a focus on maintaining intact families and personal responsibility (like there was in the past) instead of subsidizing bad behavior, the community would get much better results, but would be less dependent on the Dems.. so they can never let that happen.
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Afrofem,
“What has surprised you about these protests?”
The size of the crowds and how broad and diverse they are.
I was also surprised to see demonstrations around the world.
Besides civil war statues being removed in the South I was surprised to see statues of slavers in England being taken down. I paticularly liked that King Leupold II, the butcher of the Congo, statue in Belgium was taken away to be destroyed.
The Dems crime bill is good start but obviously there is a lot more to do then that.
I hope the popularity doesn’t diminish what needs to be done. Sometimes the narrative gets redirected elsewhere and the mainstream goes along with it.
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@ Biff
“All my human friends know I compare them to dogs, of course”
You didn’t answer my other question: Do your black friends know you consider them to have different general characteristics than white people? And let me add, do your black friends know you consider these differences to be more than superficial?
“I’m sure you really believe Pygmies and Samoans are all just the same under their skin.”
I never said that.
“I’ve seen it said the genetic difference between humans and chimps is close to 1%, yet few would say it’s not significant.”
That statistic uses a different measurement than the study I cited above. On that scale, the genetic difference between humans and chimps is slightly over 1 percent, compared to the genetic difference between individual humans, which is on average 0.1 to 0.3 percent.
“You and I are going to have to disagree on what constitutes “expert” opinion. Tim Wise is a paid shill whose job is to to support the blood sucking, self-righteous liberal establishment.”
I never cited Tim Wise. You’re confusing me with Michael Barker. If you have this much trouble keeping track of different commenters on one thread on one blog, why should I believe you have any expertise in identifying the differences between races?
But concerning the Ferguson effect, I still would like to know:
1) why you’re apparently okay with the police refusing to do the job they are paid to do
2) why you keep harping about the Ferguson effect on this blog and what you expect people here to do about it
3) why don’t you have anything to say about the many white people who have been caught on camera breaking windows, vandalizing, and looting.
“Raymond Lopez is Mexican American and looks that way to me, but to you he’s a white Hispanic I guess. I call BS. I guess to you most folks in Central/South America are terrible people guilty of white privilege because they aren’t pure Aztec.”
There is a sizable population in Latin America whose heritage is highly or entirely European. I’m descended in part from white Hispanics, and I have cousins whose Mexican side of the family is 100 percent English. And there most certainly is color discrimination throughout Latin America. At any rate, Raymond Lopez is not African American like you tried to claim.
“I guess to you most folks in Central/South America are terrible people guilty of white privilege because they aren’t pure Aztec.”
No, the Aztecs are from North America.
“And you think getting rid of police will help.”
I never said that. You have serious problems with reading comprehension.
“Easy abortion causes people to use it as birth control.”
The problem is it isn’t easy or affordable for women to access the most reliable forms of birth control. Viagra is famously easier and cheaper to obtain than the pill or any other type of hormonal birth control for women.
“It’s [sic] advent led to MORE out of wedlock births, which are disastrous for any community”
You mean like in Iceland, where the rate of out-of-wedlock births is over 70 percent? Norway at over 60 percent? Sweden and Denmark, both hovering around 54 percent?
Also, you wrote that the advent of easy abortion leads to more out-of-wedlock births. Shouldn’t it lead to more abortions instead?
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The quickest way to derail any thread is to talk about abortion.
I take your concern about blacks getting abortions as fake. Your not really pro life otherwise you would be more concerned about the boot on the neck then blaming Geroge Floyd and the black community.
“Tim wise is a paid shill”
You just dismis it (insert liberal here) because he/she is not an “academic”.
That’s not an argument.
Candace Owens is not an “academic” but your fine with her prattle because it fits your bias.
I’m not sure why you come here. Every few years you show up and retype the same arguments. Its not like you are trying to learn anything or try to see another point of view.
Its like you have to reinforce your own views of the world within yourself because you know they are slipping away and that you are on the wrong side of history.
And you do this here at the expense of others. Some of the stuff you type is vile to read.
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Since Biff doesn’t appear to have even glanced at the dog breed articles, let me excerpt some pertinent information from the first one here:
&
https://www.americanscientist.org/article/genetics-and-the-shape-of-dogs
How utterly fallacious to compare even a 200-year-old breed of dog to humankind.
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@ MJB
Not disagreeing with your overall assessment, but I think he would get more reinforcement of his worldview on an alt-right blog or a website like Stormfront.
I think the reason he shows up at Abagond’s blog is more likely to be encapsulated in your observation here:
“And you do this here at the expense of others. Some of the stuff you type is vile to read.”
He doesn’t expect to get reinforcement and agreement here. He’s here because he wants to subject people of color to his vileness.
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“He doesn’t expect to get reinforcement and agreement here”
No. But it strengthens the racism within himself. It becomes more real if he types it out.
And he imagines he is smarter then everybody else because of genes.
Its like he has built himself a cage to live in to keep the others out. He occasionally reaches out of the cage at the others but only to take.
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@ MJB
Gotcha. Good point.
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As a registered libertarian, and well, you know…. It strains my thinkingvto hear ‘defund’ the police, i can’t believe i’m typing this out, but there should be senate hearings and some open, public debate. Defund just sounds like the classic ‘knee jerk’ reaction, so also, if the sheriffs and staties have to take up the slack esp. I’d say in major urban areas, believe me the $ will just go from a different bucket into yet another bucket.
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Radley Balko on the criminal justice system. This is well researched and lots of data. Its worth keeping for later reference.
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Article on some polling on the reaction to Trump’s photo op at Lafayette Square:
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2020/06/10/trust-high-black-lives-matter-photo-op-defining-moment-trump/5317621002/
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“…you are not capable of learning until the violence comes to your neighborhood directly. That’s tragic. I was trying to share words directly from intelligent and reasonable Black voices….”
via GIPHY
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Too bad the gif of LeBron James playing the world’s tinest violin did not embed.
But you get my drift.
boo hoo
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@ Michael Barker
I’m bracing for the propaganda (copaganda) backlash blitz we will have to endure soon. The cops and their allies will work overtime to depict cops as “misunderstood victims” of violent, out of control Black Lives Matter activists.
Trump will do what he can to hammer home that false narrative. He feels the Trump Show ratings slipping and he thinks nothing succeeds like more controversy. His followers love his pathological tweets from the White House bunker. He will be a busy pot stirrer over the next five months.
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You wonder why I’m here, as if you don’t even expect anyone to contradict your narrow worldview anymore. This site at least discusses important societal questions and allows dissenting voices. Most mainstream sites don’t. They completely cut off all comments at many places (like MSN) and censor heavily in other places because they don’t like the comments they get.
They want to shape opinion.. not just report on facts and have people sharing opinions they don’t condone.
What’s the difference between book burning and a de facto monopoly like Amazon or Facebook or Youtube or Twitter refusing to allow different views to be aired?
The vast vast majority of the US population does not want to defund or even reduce funding for cops. They realize it’s crazy. Most Americans of all racial backgrounds are OK with “all lives matter” and the Martin Luther King inspired message of color blind equality behind it. But you wouldn’t know it if you listened to the news.
You wouldn’t know that 2019 had the lowest police killings of unarmed Blacks on record according to the super liberal Washington Post, and that it was only 10 (factoring in people with cars, attacking violently, etc., it’s really only 3-4). That’s insanely low compared to so many other ways to die. Why not report that. Report that there was something personal with this officer and Floyd early and clearly. They couldn’t do that. They wanted to incite the riots. Antifa were waiting to exploit the situation.
Anyway, I had been guessing the US could hold it together for another 15 years or so, but it doesn’t seem like it. Most of you will likely live to see the collapse–we may look back on this as the beginning. I know most of you guys won’t listen to anything I’ve said, but when you see things get much much worse in the coming years–maybe, just maybe you’ll remember.
I don’t have the energy to respond to everyone here, but I will respond to Solitaire’s questions:
But concerning the Ferguson effect, I still would like to know:
1) why you’re apparently okay with the police refusing to do the job they are paid to do
NO, THEY ABSOLUTELY WOULD DO THEIR JOB IF THEY WERE ALOWED TO. BLAME THE CITY OFFICIALS IN CHARGE OF THE DEPARTMENTS WHO MADE THEM STAND DOWN (FOR EXAMPLE IF CHICAGO OFFICIALS SAW POLICE INTERACTIONS DOWN 90% AND OBJECTED, THEY COULD HAVE, BUT OBVIOUSLY THEY WANTED JUST THAT)—AND ULTIMATELY DEMOCRATIC VOTERS FOR ELECTING THEM. THIS KIND OF CRAP DIDN’T HAPPEN IN REPUBLICAN CONTROLLED CITIES.
2) why you keep harping about the Ferguson effect on this blog and what you expect people here to do about it
UNDERSTAND THAT FOCUSING ON THE POLICE (A HANDFUL OF WRONGFUL DEATHS) IS A DISTRACTION AND THAT PUSHING AWAY THE COPS WILL KILL THOUSANDS MORE OF YOUR OWN PEOPLE. FOCUS MORE ON BUILDING LASTING MARRIAGES, GOOD MORALS AND STRONG COMMUNITIES (BLACKS HAD MUCH STRONGER COMMUNITIES AND FAMILIES HISTORICALLY–YES EVEN BEFORE YOUR SACRED ABORTION RIGHTS AND WELFARE, BUT HOW IS THAT EVEN POSSIBLE? =X). I’M FINE WITH REQUIRING COPS TO GET TRAINING AND USE MORE BODY CAMS–RECOGNIZE THAT THOSE EFFORTS HAVE BROUGHT COP CAUSED DEATHS WAY DOWN IN RECENT YEARS AND LET’S ACKNOWLEDGE THAT POSITIVITY.
3) why don’t you have anything to say about the many white people who have been caught on camera breaking windows, vandalizing, and looting.
I HAVE A LOT TO SAY ABOUT ANTIFA THUGS, NONE OF IT GOOD. THEY ARE LIKE THE COMMUNARDS FROM LONG AGO AND THE FRENCH REVOLUTIONARIES LONG BEFORE THEM.. SPOILED BRATS WHO HAVE BEEN MISEDUCATED AND DON’T REALIZE THAT COMMUNISM HAS CAUSED WAY MORE MISERY THAN ANYTHING THEY CONSIDER TO BE FASCISM (WHICH, HISTORICALLY, HAS ONLY RISEN TO POWER AS A DIRECT RESULT OF COMMUNIST THREATS).
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Racist white people are a trip. They literally have to ignore the entire centuries-long history of “their” people being violent, genocidal rapists, and itinerant land-grabbing, thugs to lecture anyone else about being “good”. Yet some think they are collectively paragons of virtue and have standing to demonize other groups. When are racist white people going to relinquish all the wealth their people obtained throughout history by doing what they say others aren’t supposed to do? I’m waiting, hypocrites!
That’s what you call getting drunk from eating too much of your own feces and thinking it tastes good enough to share. They vampirically built their world using other people’s blood and sweat but don’t want to collectively acknowledge it. Fine, but but not everyone shares their collective delusion. They can continue ingesting the propaganda that assuages their cognitive dissonance but the rest of us smell the strong stench from afar and know what it is.
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“When are racist white people going to relinquish all the wealth their people obtained throughout history by doing what they say others aren’t supposed to do?”
That’s the ticket. South Africa just needs to finally take all the land and money back from the evil white man! Then they can be strong and independent like Wakanda.. er, Zimbabwe…
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Oh, look. Biff has been reduced to screaming in all caps.
Between that and his “not having the energy” remark, I’m tempted to yank Biff’s chain and say something about white men having low stamina, being weak and unable to control their emotions. But Michael Barker is a white man and he manages just fine, so that would obviously be false.
Biff, do you not know the codes for ital and boldface text? Admittedly it’s easier to mash down the capslock key, but the codes aren’t that much harder or time-consuming.
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It actually doesn’t take much at all for police officers to slack off — like removing less than one percent of their budget, as evidenced in this recent interview with Steve Fletcher, a member of the Minneapolis City Council:
You’ve been trying to figure out how to reform the police for years. But until now, the most you’ve ever tried to do is slow the growth of police spending: voting back in 2018 to take about a million dollars out of the police budget and put it toward public safety programs. This sounds like a lot, but the police were slated to get $185 million. Even with that money lopped off the top, the overall police budget was growing year after year. There was pushback on your decision: You got calls from the law-and-order types, but you also got more troubling calls.
We saw a lot of businesses being told by officers, We’d love to help you with that, but our hands are tied by the council. Talk to your council member.
Were these people who were reporting crimes?
Yes: businesses experiencing shoplifting or other kinds of incidents. Cops would come and say, We asked for money in the budget, but the council member didn’t give it to us. And we just don’t have enough people to respond to it quickly enough to address this issue.…
We have to do better for our community than that. And frankly, if the cops are going to treat me like I’m the enemy when I cut a sliver of the increase of their budget, there’s no incentive to not go big because I’m going to get treated that way regardless. So I might as well go for the real change that I actually think is going to protect our community and make us safe in the long run.
https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2020/06/minneapolis-police-dismantle-council-vote-steve-fletcher.html
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Another example: over a dozen Chicago police officers (including at least three supervisors) who responded to a burglary alarm at a congressman’s campaign office decided to chill at the office despite looting and fires going on nearby.
They were caught on security cameras eating popcorn and drinking coffee that belonged to the campaign office, playing on their cell phones, and taking naps.
https://www.thedailybeast.com/chicago-cops-made-popcorn-drank-coffee-napped-inside-us-rep-bobby-rushs-office-as-protests-raged
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@ Solitaire
Upthread, biff regaled us with a heavily edited passage from WTTW in Chicago.
https://abagond.wordpress.com/2020/05/29/george-floyd/comment-page-1/#comment-445074
I took the time to read the article and found the true focus of the article was not the “looters” and criminals, but the prioritization of police protection. The article’s author wrote about how the city administration headed by Mayor Lightfoot sent police to guard expensive shops and condos in the Loop and other areas of downtown Chicago.
https://news.wttw.com/2020/06/05/what-are-we-going-have-left-our-community-aldermen-react-panic-sorrow-unrest
At the same time, the police virtually abandoned retail districts in predominantly Black and Latinx Chicago neighborhoods.
Now the news of over a dozen Chicago cops
fiddlinglounging at Congressmember Rush’s office while criminal opportunists stole and burned retail outlets on the the West and South Sides of the city.biff ranted about chaos if the police have their budgets cut. Yet fully funded, what is the default for US police?
◉ daily harassment of Black, Native and Latinx communities.
◉ attacking non-violent protesters with chemical and electrical “less lethal” weapons.
◉ sheltering violent White racists after they drive cars into crowds and shoot protesters.
◉ lounging in cushy offices while low income business districts burn.
A core question is why, exactly, do police deserve up half of the budgets of major cities? This is in addition to their shakedown of low income people through civil asset forfeiture rackets.
The police are a major source of violence and corruption in our society. It is time to reduce their financial and social impact. Defunding the police is about choosing community over fear, the needs of people over the protection of inanimate objects and the future over traditions born in slavery.
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@ Origin
“…not everyone shares their collective delusion. They can continue ingesting the propaganda that assuages their cognitive dissonance but the rest of us smell the strong stench from afar…”
Oh yes, that smell!
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The White people caught on camera breaking windows, vandalizing, and looting were not “Antifa thugs”. They were ordinary, bored White teens and twenty-somethings. They were opportunists who took advantage of other peoples protests to act out in the streets.
I’m really amused by all of the rancor about Antifa. White people who rant, rave and blame Antifa for every little thing reveal the deep fear and cowardice of White Supremacists. Perhaps that is why they are often bristling with weapons. They are simply afraid.
What has Antifa done to become their bogeyman? Antifa activists made Nazi and Skinhead rallies unsafe for the racists. That alone made them the object of intense fear and loathing.
The fact that Trump blathers on endlessly about Antifa shows his pandering to his White supremacist base. Trump is a classic example of an alligator mouth fronting a “tweety-bird” backside.
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@ Afrofem
“A core question is why, exactly, do police deserve up half of the budgets of major cities?”
And at the same time we’re told there’s no additional money for public schools! What is it the opponents of increased school funding always say? “Throwing money at the problem doesn’t fix it.” Certainly that appears to be true with the police; it’s time we stop throwing them so much money.
Good catch with the WTTW article. Why am I not surprised? 🤔😒
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@ Origin
“They literally have to ignore the entire centuries-long history of “their” people being violent, genocidal rapists, and itinerant land-grabbing, thugs to lecture anyone else about being “good”.”
Most groups have a history of those things. When have Africans ever not done the same?
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In LA in 92, and recently here in philly, the police just stepped back and let the whole thing get looted and burned. I think it was an office safety judgement call, i mean i didnt go out during the looting but i’m pretty sure if the police drew ranks and squared off with the rioters there would have been a bloodbath and a lot of police weapons out there not just mismatched sneakers.]
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@Monica
“Most groups have a history of those things. When have Africans ever not done the same?”
When have Africans virtually depopulated three continents in a historical wink? I must have missed that event in history class.
But the irony lies not in what Europeans have done but the fact that “white people” continue to take the lead in demonizing the rest of the world’s people despite the scale of THEIR brutality and theft.
It is the extreme hypocrisy of white racism that I was really drawing attention to.
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Hypocrisy is the side of the coin that manifest to others. “Cognitive dissonance” is the condition of the cultural mind: the other side of the coin.
It is true that “white people” successfully dismantled just about every culture they came into contact with during the age of exploration. However, for the most part, they do revel in being seen as warlike savages that eliminated others through disease and deprivation.
That is not celebrated, per se. Culturally, “whiteness” wants to see itself as a force for good. It was so from the outset, when missionaries followed conquistadores to “save the souls” of the pagans. It is the need to reconcile a positive self-concept with brutal actions that results in cognitive dissonance on a cultural level.
That is why racist white people can come on this blog and tell us how terrible black people are while believing they are helping us by showing us the truth. That is the “truth” that helps them. It is their medicine not ours. For in order to feel “good” while bringing evil on others (or endorsing it), your victims must deserve it.
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“do revel” should have been “do NOT revel”.
That mistake changed the meaning quite a bit.
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I agree with Orgin but I would add that it was the Christian church that had changed European heathen/pagan culture into a Christian one.
So while the Vikings were violent and raiders they were not interested in spreading their religion to others. Christianity was different. It gave countries God’s will to go forth and do conquest. And that meant erasing cultures and spreading Gods kingdom in terms of land and wealth.
Capitalism was another factor. Originally banks were forbidden by the Church to make loans amongst Christians. Then during the middle ages loans were then allowed between Christians and Jews.
Eventually loans were allowed and countries were able to accumalte debt to fund wars and conquest.
I wonder if history would have been different if a religion like Buddisim has spread to Europe instead of Christianity.
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@ Monica
https://abagond.wordpress.com/2012/05/30/whites-are-not-uniquely-evil/
https://abagond.wordpress.com/2009/09/28/racism-is-unnatural/
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@ Origin
“When have Africans virtually depopulated three continents in a historical wink?”
Africans have shown themselves at least as willing to abuse others as everyone else. I don’t think a lack of willingness was a limiting factor.
“That is why racist white people can come on this blog and tell us how terrible black people are while believing they are helping us by showing us the truth. “
From what I’ve seen, this blog’s raison d’être is to tell everyone how terrible white people are.
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@ Monica
https://abagond.wordpress.com/2013/10/24/your-blog-is-anti-white/
https://abagond.wordpress.com/2012/01/10/is-this-blog-racist/
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@ Solitaire
It looks like enough people mentioned the same things that Abagond felt it necessary to respond to them. So clearly I’m not the only one who noticed. I didn’t find her responses very persuasive though. A couple of the readers who disagreed with her were much more convincing.
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@ Monica
https://abagond.wordpress.com/2011/04/06/i-do-not-write-this-blog-for-white-people/
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@ Monica
I’ve found that whenever people of color want to talk about racism’s negative effects on their lives, many (not all) white people get defensive and say the POC are being hateful towards whites. Why do you think that is?
Another pertinent question is why can’t Abagond have a blog where he and other black people discuss racism amongst themselves without some white people showing up uninvited to tell them that they’re being mean to whites?
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Abagond is kinder than necessary. If we define evil as that which threatens the lives of others and of the planet then I’m sure that a case can be made for the exceptional collective evil of white people.
That wasn’t my original point – I was talking about racist white peoples’ self-blindness towards their own group while they demonize others – but since it was brought up, I could probably argue it quite convincingly if I cared to. No inhabited continent escaped them and even animals started going extinct rapidly after they showed up.
LOL, as I typed that last sentence it reminded me of Joel 2:2-3:
Bison skull mountain:
No natural predator does this, and the native Americans certainly would not.
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@ Origin
Those two idiots stand on the pile without a shred of shame. A picture really is worth a thousand (or two) words.
bitter laughter
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@ Origin
There are photos similar to that from the Philippine-American War.
Except instead of buffalo skulls, the white U.S. soldiers are standing next to pyramids of human heads.
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@ Solitaire
Whenever antisemites want to talk about the jews’ negative effects on their lives, many (not all) jews get defensive. Why do you think that is?
@ Origin
“I’m sure that a case can be made for the exceptional collective evil of white people.”
So are white people uniquely evil or not? Let’s put it to a vote!
“I was talking about racist white peoples’ self-blindness towards their own group while they demonize others “
There seems to be a lot of that going around. And not just among white people either.
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@ Monica
“Whenever antisemites want to talk about the jews’ negative effects on their lives, many (not all) jews get defensive.”
So you’re equating anti-Semites with people of color? And equating Jews with white people? How well does this comparison hold up?
Consider that most anti-Semitic beliefs are based on falsified histories and conspiracy theories, whereas Abagond writes about real historical events.
Also, perhaps you’ve never taken a look at any of the websites where anti-Semites and white supremacists congregate, places like Stormfront or Chimpout. Very few Jews or POC ever venture there. And the things posted on those websites are far more vile than what you’ve taken offense to here.
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@ Solitaire
It was an analogy. But since you’ve asked. Most anti-semites are people of color. And most jews are white.
Entrenched anti-Semitic views” very rare among whites and Asian Americans, common among blacks and Latinos
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BLACK LIVES MATTER
by commenter biff
Black lives matter more than white
“Wait!” you say, “That can’t be right!”
Interracial violent crimes
Are more likely, 9 times!
To be Black on white
But you won’t hear it on the news at night
Cops are more likely to kill whites than Blacks
Shocking! Yet those are the facts
But you won’t hear them on the news at night
cause Black lives matter… more than white
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https://edition.cnn.com/2020/11/27/americas/joo-alberto-silveira-freitas-brazil-intl/index.html
George Floyd’s killing. Brazilian version.
President Bolsonaro says that the protests that erupted in Brazil after that killing are just an importation of “foreign tensions”.
Some elites in some countries never learn, never change. To their own peril.
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@ munubantu
Thanks for the link.
“Brazilian version”, indeed. At least in the Floyd murder, the bystanders filmed and protested the event in real time.
Porto Alegre is an affluent White city in Brazil’s south that is analagous to Minneapolis in the USA’s north. There has been an influx of Black Brazilians in recent decades drawn by better paying jobs and other amenities. That is why I was not shocked by the passivity of the bystanders during the Freitas murder.
I was surprised by Carrefour’s swift response though. I have yet to see an American retailer react in such strong terms. When John Crawford was murdered in a Walmart in 2014, Walmart blamed another customer for the killing and alleged they were not responsible for Crawford’s death.
https://www.daytondailynews.com/news/crime–law/walmart-911-caller-intentionally-lied-police-crawford-shooting/cuuIrJa2kvCXkMoFcUVrCP/
At least, Carrefour, battered by global Muslim boycotts over events in France is a lot more sensitive to what happens on their property at this moment in time.
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This is a reply to biff’s comment on the Mythic Past thread:
https://abagond.wordpress.com/2022/06/03/the-mythic-past/comment-page-1/#comment-593511
biff:
Thank you for sharing that Youtube video. What struck me most about the video is how distraught Floyd is throughout the encounter. He is terrified and literally begging for his life from the very beginning of the video to the very end.
In spite of his fear, Floyd complies with the orders to open the door, keep his hands visible and exit the car. He is outside of the car and handcuffed by 2:20. The bodycam officer says ”stop resisting”, but cops have been known to say that on camera to justify later beatings of people held in custody.
Around 3:30, a female passenger who identifies herself as “his ex” [girlfriend?] is asked by the bodycam officer if Floyd is “on something” [drugs?]. She explains that he is very distraught because he’d been shot by police before and didn’t want a repeat of that experience.
Also from 3:30 to 3:54, Floyd is seen on the far right side of the screen, handcuffed and crouched against a building with a cop standing over him. Not exactly a threatening or resistant posture.
Around 5:20, Floyd explains how he doesn’t want to get in the small confined space of the police car’s back seat because he is claustrophobic. He says to one of the cops, “please stay with me man, thank you”.
Around 7:20 until the end of the video, Floyd resists getting into the back seat of the police car because of his claims of claustrophobia. At one point around 8:00, Floyd says “he can’t breathe” because of the prospect of claustrophobia in the police car.
For most of the video, Floyd is compliant and non-threatening. He only becomes resistant when faced with the prospect of being transported in the small, confined space of the police car backseat due to claustrophobia.
I found it strange that four trained and burly cops on the scene were unable to force one handcuffed person into a car. The cops dithering highlights their ineptness, not Floyd’s “terrible behavior”.
The “Pregnant Woman” Meme
In the comment, you wrote, “This guy literally shoved a gun at a pregnant woman’s stomach when he was breaking into her house.”
This was (and is) a popular meme on social and traditional media⎯and entirely false.
On July 15, 2020, USA Today published a fact check of that meme. What they found was a story concocted with misrepresentations of facts and the photo of another woman’s face and body in a Facebook post.
According to USA Today:
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/factcheck/2020/07/15/fact-check-viral-photo-doesnt-show-george-floyd-assault-victim/5415937002/
Proves that old saying, “lies run around the world while the truth is still putting its boots on”. Same for the Black Brute stereotype.
”Tragic For Cops”
You wrote: “it’s absolutely tragic for the cops whose lives were ruined because of his terrible behavior …who would want to be a cop and have to deal with that crap on a daily basis…
Four well trained, well paid, burly cops murder a man in public and in broad daylight over an alleged counterfeit $20 bill and they’re tragic figures? To me, anyone who believes that is devoid of conscience.
Their “lives were ruined” because of their own behavior. They made a choice to brutalize and murder another human being over a piece of paper. Too bad their prosecutions were isolated incidents.
Most cops were (and still are) getting away with murder.
As to, “who would want to be a cop…” [?] There are plenty of people who want a secure job with great pay and benefits including full pensions. They get to assault and even kill other citizens and face few to no consequences. “Administrative leave” aka paid vacation followed by promotion is not a negative sanction, nor has it stopped cops from killing people.
The recent course of events in Uvalde, TX shows that when cops are faced with a real threat, they cower behind cars, taser and handcuff frantic parents and allow a psychopath to murder innocents.
They are rough and tough with the unarmed, not so much with the armed.
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Abagond did a great post on the Black Brute stereotype:
https://abagond.wordpress.com/2008/04/23/the-black-brute-stereotype/
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Afrofem wrote:
“At one point around 8:00, Floyd says ‘he can’t breathe’ because of the prospect of claustrophobia in the police car.”
This is also a very common symptom of a panic attack. Hyperventilation caused by anxiety and/or fear can lead to sensations of not getting enough air or oxygen. Based on the video, Floyd is clearly evidencing other signs of heightened anxiety and fear, including his crouched state next to the building, which is an instinctive protective posture that shields the vital organs in the torso.
Also, the cop pointed a gun at his head within just a few seconds of approaching the car.
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Afrofem:
I’m not going to get into a long back and forth here about Floyd, because it’s old news and it’s not something I’m invested in.
We agree that (and it’s clear in the video evidence that) Floyd was freaking out and saying he couldn’t breathe even before he was on the ground. He also had a potentially fatal amount of fentanyl in his system according to the medical reports. I’m aware that the state wanted to present a certain Narrative and got a medical examiner to say that wasn’t the primary cause of death, but given how dishonest the whole Narrative was, I think it’s BS and clearly doesn’t show beyond a reasonable doubt that the officers were the primary cause of death. We will likely have to agree to disagree on that.
“I found it strange that four trained and burly cops on the scene were unable to force one handcuffed person into a car. The cops dithering highlights their ineptness..”
Hmmm, maybe we could make a law that only super big strong young men get hired as police officers? 🤔 Affirmative action has made it much less likely that you’d get those types of officers.
George Floyd was 6’6″ and 225 and had been convicted of aggravated robbery with a deadly weapon. You make it seem like he’s some harmless kid. Being extremely agitated and massively high on drugs doesn’t make him less dangerous.
“He only becomes resistant when faced with the prospect of being transported in the small, confined space of the police car backseat due to claustrophobia.” Yes, but he was resistant and repeatedly so for many minutes, which puts the officers in danger. The officers couldn’t just let him go.
Like I said, I’m not saying the officers acted the best way they could, but they were put in a terrible situation by Floyd’s criminal behavior, drug use and repeatedly resisting arrest. The media manipulated the story to only focus on the efforts to subdue Floyd and not his violent criminal history or the fact he had a potentially fatal amount of drugs in his system (which he had ingested) or his repeated resisting of efforts to get into the car. If the media had told a more measured story it might have saved thousands of black lives. You never responded to that and you obviously don’t care about all the lives lost due to Floyd’s massive drug use, repeated resisting arrest, yes the officers’ screw up, but mostly the media’s incredibly misrepresentative and irresponsible narrative.
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biff:
There is no “back and forth” in the offing.
You brought up Floyd in the Mythic Past thread with your usual hyperbole bordering on hysteria.
Then you followed your usual script of doubling down on falsehoods, various derailment attempts and general snarkiness.
Ho hum
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@ Solitaire
Floyd did seem to be experiencing a panic attack. He was certainly frightened out of his wits by the prospect of the back seat of that police car.
After years of impetuous actions followed by consequences, Floyd moved to Minneapolis to make a fresh start. He became a parent and his life stabilized.
Some of his stumbles and shining moments are presented in this Daily Mail article:
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8366533/George-Floyd-moved-Minneapolis-start-new-life-released-prison-Texas.html
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so far any rational refutation the bias and unnecessary brutal treatment of people esp black by police is
still seen as justified due criminality ,dangerousness, resisting and drug use
that both justify brutal treatment and at the same time absolve the officer’s of ANY moral guilt or legal accountability.
however bias based on one’s socio-phenotypic status and experience is inevitable otherwise we would not even be having this discussion.
what I’m biased toward is an objective system of communication that eliminates or neutralizes the intrinsic bias we all have.
to me commenters like afrofem or solitaire are fair reasonable and objective
yet commenters like biff
persist in a attitude of hostility and feel justified in the both past and present abuse and aggression
looking at it from a larger perspective we might view this as yet another of numerous variations of competition amongst biological organisms of which our species is latest evolutionary development
just as the albinic (white) populations of our species
are the most recent evolutionary development
just as our culture and our technology are
the most recent evolutionary development
i think its reasonable to assert that previous generations of our species simply lack the experience or even capacity of our current generation
how much more are we now but temporary and limited expressions of the biological process that may span billions of years into the future.
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