Egypt 1,275 years before the Christian era is Egypt at roughly the beginning of the Book of Exodus in the Bible. The Jews will leave in maybe 12 years. Troy will fall in about 90 years. King Tut has been dead for 48 years, and the Sphinx and the great pyramids are now well over a thousand years old.
- When: -1275, during the New Kingdom.
- Where: Egypt. Held sway over Palestine, Nubia and parts of Libya, Phoenicia and Syria.
- Ruler: Ramses II (19th Dynasty).
- Population: 2 to 5 million.
- Life expectancy: 30 to 36 years.
- Major cities: Memphis, Thebes, Pi-Ramses.
- Language: Late Egyptian, since the -1300s, written in hieroglyphics and, more commonly, hieratic, a simpler, cursive form of hieroglyphics.
- Religion: priests, temples, worship of the gods, especially Amun, Osiris, Min, Mut, Khonsu and Ptah. The pharaoh is the supreme high priest who stands between the gods and man.
- Currency: none. Coins have not yet been invented and will not become common in Egypt till after Alexander the Great (-300s). Most people are paid in beer, wheat and barley. The unit of account is the deben, equal to about 1.5 grams of silver ($1.50 in US dollars in 2012).
- Economy: Most people are farmers living along the Nile, growing wheat and barley. Egypt is the richest country in the world, thanks to its control of the gold mines of Nubia to the south.
- Exports: linen, furniture, but no papyrus (the alphabet has not yet created an export market).
- Imports: glass and incense (Palestine), copper (Cyprus, Anatolia), tin (Iran, Syria), gold, ebony and ivory (Nubia).
- Military: professional army. Chariot fighting at its height. Bows and arrows.
- Bathing: daily.
- Slavery: practised.
- Latest inventions: Iron is a new thing, but only kings can afford it. In the last 300 years Egyptians have invented scissors, clocks (sun and water clocks) and the rudder.
- Reading list: Book of the Dead (for the few who can read).
It is a very well-known time and place. Not just because of all the temples Ramses II built which have lasted down to our time, but because of the desert village of Deir el-Medina, across the river from Thebes. In addition to its physical remains, we have its letters, work records, literature, graffiti, and so on. We also have the government records of the Hittite Empire, which add balance to the shameless propaganda written on the temple walls of Egypt.
The Jewish Exodus, by the way, does not appear in Egyptian records. In fact, Jews (Israelites) do not appear in Egyptian records at all till -1208.
The rich, unlike the poor, can read, do not have to work in the fields, sleep in four-post beds (not on mats), have houses with more than three rooms, and commonly lived to see 40. Stuff most people in the West will take for granted some 3,000 years later.
Race: According to both Cheikh Anta Diop and Chancellor Williams, this was after Egypt was ruled by Blacks. Egyptians by this time are heavily mixed with West Asian blood, though still darker skinned than today.
– Abagond, 2017.
Sources: Mainly “Ancient Egypt on 5 Deben a Day” (2010) by Donald P. Ryan; “The New Penguin Atlas of Ancient History” (2002) by Colin McEvedy.
See also:
- Ramses II
- King Tut
- Ancient Egypt
- Roman Egypt
- papyrus
- Egyptian language
- Egyptian inventions
- Deir el-Medina
- Nubia
- Jews
- Christian era
583
Well explicated Abagond: this can also be reinforced by “The African origin of Civilization” by Dr. Cheick Anta Diop and recently by the Congolese Philosopher: Valentin Yves Mudimbe’s’book ” The Invention of Africa”
Well ironically the Bible does re-emphasize on the veracity of Egyptians being black no doubt about it!
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The longer we get from the beginning the less blacks we will see in Egypt and Northern Africa because of integration of individuals from the north.
The people from the north were returning back from living in the north for thousands of years.
The mix will continue!
In the beginning everyone was black. Or at least until such time as some other theory appears. Being black is a coincidence to being originally from central Africa. (Tanzania) Very close to the equator.
About Africa An interesting piece:
http://econintersect.com/pages/contributors/contributor.php?post=201706150700&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Daily%20Global%20Economic%20Intersection%20Newsletter%20Feed&utm_content=Daily%20Global%20Economic%20Intersection%20Newsletter%20Feed+CID_1aeff3dcdebe6891f11179a9e39c0d7c&utm_source=newsletter&utm_term=Documentary%20Of%20The%20Week%20The%20Amazing%20History%20Of%20The%20Sahara%20Desert
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now aint that interesting. the biblical story must have been a myth.
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“Whatever doubts scholars may entertain about the historicity of the Exodus, memories of an Israelite sojourn in Egypt seem too sharply etched to dismiss out of hand. The Biblical account simply contains too many accurate details and bears too many correspondences with Egyptian records to ignore. Indeed, archaeologists at Deir el-Medina, Egypt, have uncovered the well-preserved village—including the homes, tombs, statuary, personal letters and legal documents—of the Egyptian craftsmen who built the royal tombs in the Valley of the Kings. Readers can decide for themselves whether the Israelites worked in similar circumstances before the onset of a great oppression.”
http://cojs.org/17006-2/
“It is a very well-known time and place. Not just because of all the temples Ramses II built which have lasted down to our time, but because of the desert village of Deir el-Medina, across the river from Thebes. In addition to its physical remains, we have its letters, work records, literature, graffiti, and so on. We also have the government records of the Hittite Empire, which add balance to the shameless propaganda written on the temple walls of Egypt.” – Abagond
Abagond, I’m in agreement with you regarding Deir el-Medina and that it was a place of importance. I surmise that modern man, being so far removed from this time period it is easy to shift things around to fit our personal narrative or group agenda. However, with that being said, the Deir el-Medina area had to do with a lot more than the mere romanticized interpretation of dream. At this particular location, the dwellings, letters, documents and even more important, TOOLS OF Israelite slaves have also been uncovered as well.
Throughout the years, there have been a laundry list of scholars and laymen alike, who’ve attempted to prove the Bible wrong or have had a propensity to skew the words towards the fake jueISH people who’ve stolen another people’s identity (damn it, where is the alphabet police, the FBI, when you need them. The Bible doesn’t speak of such a people. But, it does speak over and over about the true JEWS who were and still are today, Black. In any event, the voluminous efforts over the centuries have proven many times over to be futile. The Bible cannot be debunked!
“Workmen and their families left a record of village life that spans almost four hundred years and parallels much of the history of the New Kingdom dynasty. Surviving records shed little light on the major events, rather they talk of everyday life – work, money, people, education, legal and religious matters.” – Ancient-Egypt
Didn’t the Bible mention that Yah’s people would be enslaved in Egypt for 430 years as enunciated in Exodus 12:40-41)?
http://www.ancient-egypt.co.uk/deir%20el%20medina/index.htm
“The village is in the southern part of the Theban necropolis in a valley behind Gurnet Murai hill. The major path from the village proceeded north from its western foothills along the top of the cliffs, that surround Deir el Bahri, to the place where workmen made a small settlement for themselves before the path descended to the Valley of the Kings.” – Ancient-Egypt
I believe it’s somewhere in the Book of Revelation, Paul said “the earth spoke.” Meaning, that archaeology would eventually reveal the TRUTH, concerning the journey of Yah’s people!
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Life expectancy 30 to 36 years why did they die so young?
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@ Mary Burrell
That life expectancy number might have high infant and childhood mortality factored into it. Until very recently (and even now in some parts of the world), many children didn’t make it to their second birthday. That skews the life expectancy statistics.
Because of modern medicine, more adults now live a lot longer, but in all eras there have always been people who lived to be very old — not just anywhere as many.
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@Solitaire: You are correct i had to do a Goggle search and it didn’t occur to me that things like diseases that are cureable today were not available then and there was also women dying in childbirth and children being born who didn’t live. And there were wars where young men died in battle. Thanks for responding.
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Also the elderly were revered not a burden like in today’s society.
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@ Mary Burrell
Right, there are all sorts of things that people died of then that they mostly don’t now. Babies in particular are very susceptible to illness because they don’t have a strong immune system yet. That said, Egyptian medicine was probably the most advanced at that time compared to anywhere else in the world.
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@Solitare: Good points.
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@ blakksage
Do any of the documents found at Deir el-Medina refer to Yahweh?
All the translations of prayers and charms I’ve read have been to gods and goddesses of the Egyptian religion. But I’d always be interested to see proof of Hebrew religious documents being found at that site or any other.
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@abagond: The Jewish Exodus, by the way, does not appear in Egyptian records. In fact, Jews (Israelites) do not appear in Egyptian records at all till -1208.
I put this on a forum I belong to and got this reply:
‘The history presented in the Old Testament simply doesn’t seem to have fit the “accepted timeline” and because of this, many historians dismiss the Old Testament as purely Jewish legend and myth. However, there is good evidence that the generally accepted date of the Exodus is actually off by about 200 to 250 years–which exactly matches what you wrote above and also makes the entire Old Testament timeline fit perfectly.
I don’t have links because I didn’t see this on the internet, but you might be able to do a little research and find documentaries and texts that explain why there may be an error in the current history books which were written to sew doubts about God and Christianity in the minds of the faithful. It is apparently doing a good job’.
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“The history presented in the Old Testament simply doesn’t seem to have fit the “accepted timeline” and because of this, many historians dismiss the Old Testament as purely Jewish legend and myth. However, there is good evidence that the generally accepted date of the Exodus is actually off by about 200 to 250 years–which exactly matches what you wrote above and also makes the entire Old Testament timeline fit perfectly.” – Joe
“I don’t have links because I didn’t see this on the internet, but you might be able to do a little research and find documentaries and texts that explain why there may be an error in the current history books which were written to sew doubts about God and Christianity in the minds of the faithful. It is apparently doing a good job.” – Joe
Hey Abagond, I have some information for you as opposed to listening to some muddle-headed infidel regarding how long the Black Jews were in Egypt, who interestingly enough, seems to have gotten his bit of information from some random blogger without providing any links to further substantiate his position. (smh)
The Masoretic text was established in 1100 AD is more than a thousand years after the original Hebrew Bible’s original text 400 BC; the Greek Suptuagint 250 BC and the Samarian Pentateuch 100 BC.
The Hebrew Masoretic text has dropped “AND CANAAN” out of the passage. This is the main reason that causes people to believe that the Israelites were in Egypt for 430 years. But the truth is, they were in Egypt for only half that time, for approximately 215 years.
The Israelites went into Egypt at around 1665 BC. The Exodus took place at 1450 BC. This means that the Israelites were in Egypt for 215 years. The archaeological evidence does not support 430 years span of time in Egypt as slaves only. Things were peaceful at first, while Egypt was still controlled by their relative, Joseph.
In Galatians 3:16-17 Paul said: “16 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ. 17 And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect.
In other words, it would be 430 years from the time Abraham received the promise to the time Moses law on Mt. Sinai. Therefore, it was 215 years from the time Abraham received the promise until the Israelites arrived in Egypt. They spent 215 years in Canaan and 215 years in Egypt.
The Greek Suptuagint Exodus 12:40 And the sojourning of the children of Israel, while they sojourned in the land of Egypt and the land of Chanaan, four hundred and thirty years.
The King James version Exodus 12:40: Now the sojourning of the children of Israel, who dwelt in Egypt, was four hundred and thirty years.
Here, the land of Canaan is for whatever corrupt reasoning, removed from the scripture. I believe that this is the source for so many people believing that the Israelites were in Egypt for 430 years, including myself, up until a few hours ago. This 430 years is also mentioned by Flavius Josephus and Apostle Paul as well.
“They left Egypt in the month Xanthicus, on the fifteenth day of the lunar month; four hundred and thirty years after our forefather Abraham came into Canaan, but two hundred and fifteen years only after Jacob removed into Egypt.” – Flavius Josephus, Antiquities of the Jews
The Jews entered Egypt at around 1665 BC and left during the Exodus at approximately 1450 BC. This is exactly 215 years as Josephus mentioned in the Antiquities of the Jews.
Even further, according to my research, Thutmose III (reign 1498-1485, 18th Dynasty) was the Pharaoh of the Exodus and not Ramses II (reign 1279-1213, 19th Dynasty) as suggested two posts ago. Looking at things from the time periods suggested, Ramses II is approximately 200 years too late to have been the Pharaoh of the Exodus.
http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=Perseus%3Atext%3A1999.01.0146%3Abook%3D2%3Asection%3D318
http://www.bible.ca/archeology/bible-archeology-exodus-date-1440bc.htm
http://www.biblicalarchaeology.org/daily/biblical-topics/bible-versions-and-translations/errors-in-the-masoretes-original-hebrew-manuscripts-of-the-bible/
http://www.biblestudytools.com/parallel-bible/passage/?q=exodus+12:40-41&t=lxx&t2=niv
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@ nomad
Lack of evidence is not evidence of lack, especially when you are talking about something that took place over 3,000 years ago to a people not yet well known. Especially when it would make the Egyptians look bad.
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@ Mary
Most of the rise in life expectancy comes from battling childhood diseases – all those shots you get as a kid.
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@ blakksage
The Samaritan Bible, if i remember correctly, had the Jews in Egypt for a short period, maybe like 200 years or so, certainly not the full 430.
It is most commonly supposed Exodus took place under Ramses II, but the -1400s is another possibility that I have heard of, what you are talking about. Or maybe it is just myth!
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@ Solitaire
According to the Wikipedia, Yahweh had first appeared in Egyptian records by -1363, well over a hundred years before the Jews did (by -1208). That is not as strange as it sounds because Yahweh was not native to the Jews, whose high god was El. It seems that Yahweh was first worshipped in Midian, south-east of Israel, the land where Moses saw the burning bush.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yahweh
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@ Abagond
Thanks, that is interesting, especially the ties to the region of the burning bush. Although in the Wiki article it does say: “There is considerable but not universal support for the view that the Egyptian inscriptions refer to Yahweh.”
I knew about El and that’s a good point. I’d probably be pretty convinced of the historicity of the exodus with the discovery of any documents that clearly showed the presence of an enslaved people in ancient Egypt who were practicing even an early form of the Hebrew religion with El and Asherah.
To the best of my knowledge, nothing like this has yet been found. That doesn’t mean there aren’t untranslated documents from Deir al Medina or elsewhere that someday may prove it.
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@Abagond: Thank you yes I understand that now I wasn’t utilizing my brain.
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“It is most commonly supposed Exodus took place under Ramses II, but the -1400s is another possibility that I have heard of, what you are talking about. Or maybe it is just myth!” – Abagond
Extra, Extra, Read all about it: The Exodus has been proven to be fictitious! Who is proclaiming this? So says blogger ABAGOND!
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@ Scribh @ blakksage
Comments deleted for name calling.
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@ blakksage
I said “maybe”. Hardly a proof.
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@”According to both Cheikh Anta Diop and Chancellor Williams, this was after Egypt was ruled by Blacks. Egyptians by this time are heavily mixed with West Asian blood, though still darker skinned than today”
I don’t know what “heavily mixed” means, but Cheikh Anta Diop never made that claim.
Chancellor Williams really didn’t make that claim either.
What he actually said of the Nineteenth dynasty was:
“So that the Eighteenth, like the great Nineteenth Dynasty of the Ramses, was predominantly black, not all-black”
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“Or maybe it is just a myth.” – Abagond
Abagond, the terms “myth” and the truth/evidence cannot occupy the same space at the same time. One of these terms must leave, especially when there is physical evidence regarding the Exodus event at the bottom of the Red Sea, right now.
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“life expectancy: 30 to 36 years”
There’s no evidence that this was the life expectancy during the 19th dynasty. This is arbitrary at best, or maybe abagond can tell us how his white sources came up with that age range.
Not that he’s representative of the average, but Ramses II himself lived well over 100 years.
Even when Kemites started documenting dates of birth and death on their stele, during the later, so-called “Ptolemaic” period (which was much less technologically advanced), we see that the average age of death was teh mid-to-upper 50s, not 30s.
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@Abagond,
I have a question. Is there any physical evidence linking the God of the Muslims, Allah, or prophet Mohammed, proving that they both actually existed?
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As we can see, lord of mirkwood has nothing of value to contribute to the subject of this post and thread, so he’s derailing it by trolling me–again.
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OFF TOPIC: Resw and ASGM.
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@ resw
Comment deleted for name calling.
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“As we can see, the troll resw has no justification for throwing an inflammatory nuclear weapon such as “white sources” into a small quibble over ancient Egyptian life expectancy.” – An Scrib
Isn’t most of history books written within this country, are done so through the corrupt lens of white Amerikans? Is it not the truth, that most of the printing presses in Amerika are owned by white people?
Well then, IF you are an honest person, you’d answer yes to both questions. And IF you answer yes to both questions, how is the “white sources” statement by resw, as you put it, “inflammatory?”
Allow me to assist you a little with a small sample people speaking in terms of intentionally corrupting history. By the way, all of these are white people, by Amerikan mediocre standards.
“The one duty we owe to history is to rewrite it.” – Oscar Wilde
“The most effective way to destroy people is to deny and obliterate their own understanding of their history.” – George Orwell
“History is a set of lies agreed upon.” – Napolean Bonaparte
“What you do in this world is a matter of no consequence. The question is what can you make people believe you have done.” – Arthur Conan Doyle
“The real war will never get in the books.” – Walt Whitman
http://www.goodreads.com/quotes/tag/rewriting-history
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“History will be kind to me, for I intend to write it.” – Winston Churchill
Which is shortened from what he actually said:
“For my part, I consider that it will be found much better by all Parties to leave the past to history, especially as I propose to write that history.”
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@ blakksage
I do not know what if any physical evidence there is.
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@blakksage
“Well then, IF you are an honest person, you’d answer yes to both questions. And IF you answer yes to both questions, how is the “white sources” statement by resw, as you put it, “inflammatory?””
Abagond is not an honest person, and that’s the problem.
My comment noted that he consulted 4 scholars and only listed the two white ones in his list of sources.
He seems to take what the white ones say as the gospel truth, such as their unsubstantiated claims that life expectancy was only ” 30 to 36 years” but clearly doubts the black scholars whose analysis of race in Kemet he grossly misrepresented, since neither one of them claimed Kemites in the 19th dynasty were “heavily mixed with West Asian blood”.
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Christ. We went through this already upthread.
Life expectancy statistics up until the modern era are frequently skewed because of the very high number of people who did not make it to adulthood.
Anywhere in the world, infant morality before 12 months was usually sky high, and mortality before age 5 was typically the next highest number.
So an average life expectancy of 30 or 35 doesn’t mean people were considered elderly at 30. It doesn’t mean there weren’t quite a few adults who lived much longer than that.
What it does mean is a substantial percentage of the populaton never made it to 30, mostly due to childhood diseases.
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Uneducated opinions fall well short of substantiating a claim of a life expectancy of “” 30 to 36 years” during the 19th Dynasty.
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https://www.populationeducation.org/content/life-span-vs-life-expectancy
https://www.livescience.com/10569-human-lifespans-constant-2-000-years.html
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And note, in the 19th dynasty in Kemet there was a legitimate healthcare system. http://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/some-ancient-egyptians-had-state-sponsored-healthcare-180954361/
And the practise of medicine was more advanced than anything known outside Africa until centuries later. So no, it was not the same as “anywhere in the world.”
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http://visual.ons.gov.uk/how-has-life-expectancy-changed-over-time/
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https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/the-scientific-fundamentalist/200811/common-misconceptions-about-science-ii-life-expectancy
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@ resw
Comment deleted. ASGM is off topic here
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@abagond
Am I on topic? If not, why did you not delete the last comment made in reference to me? This just shows your blatant bias in comment moderation.
And again, when did “Irish”, “colour-blind racist” and “white supremacist” become moderated words? This shows your gross inconsistencies in comment moderation.
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Links about how life expectancy changed over time and misconceptions about life expectancy fall well short of substantiating a claim that it was ”30 to 36 years” during the 19th Dynasty in Kemet.
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@blakksage i assume by your angle here you presume some physical evidence for the existence of jesus and/or yahweh?
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V8driver asked: “@blakksage i assume by your angle here you presume some physical evidence for the existence of jesus and/or yahweh?”
Pardon me, perhaps I should’ve made myself clearer. I meant to ask Abagond the following question: Are there any physical evidence of an event attributable to either Allah or Prophet Mohammed? Good observation V8!
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“Allah” is the word for “God” in Semitic languages—
Cognates of the name “Allāh” exist in other Semitic languages, including Hebrew and Aramaic. The corresponding Aramaic form is Elah (אלה), but its emphatic state is Elaha (אלהא). It is written as ܐܠܗܐ (ʼĔlāhā) in Biblical Aramaic and ܐܲܠܵܗܵܐ (ʼAlâhâ) in Syriac as used by the Assyrian Church, both meaning simply “God”. Biblical Hebrew mostly uses the plural (but functional singular) form Elohim (אלהים), but more rarely it also uses the singular form Eloah (אלוהּ). —from Wiki
For Muslims, the Quran is the “physical evidence”—but a person might consider another event also?…
Physical evidence—In the Quran, there is a very brief reference to a story of an event that occurred in what is called “the Year of the Elephant”, according to the Muslim version of the story, in approx year 570, a Christian King decided to conquer Mecca and came with elephants, but God/Allah prevented it by sending birds that threw stones which panicked the elephants….Historically, there is evidence that the Ethiopian King conquered an area in Yemen (called Zafar?) beginning around 525 and brought in elephants to do so. Some rock inscriptions of around 552 show the skirmishes with Arab tribes.
(The brief reference in the Quran is vague and does not refer to any date—just an event. It might be possible to assume the story may have some historical basis…..?….)
Prophet Mohammed—There are copies of treaties the Prophet established with Churches and monasteries. (for ex—see Ashtiname of Muhammed—Wiki) There is also a document called the “constitution of Medina” which is a copy of the original document.
There are also graves and Mosques by the companions of the Prophet such as this one in the Kingdom of Axum (which gave asylum to persecuted Muslims)—in present day Ethiopia
https://poetrania.blogspot.com/2013/04/visit-to-negash-ethiopia-site-of-worlds.html
Hueisheng Mosque in China is also said to be established in 627 by a Companion of the Prophet who visited China…according to the Chinese documents…..
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