“The Fire Next Time” (1963) by James Baldwin is one of the best things ever written about race in the US, written a hundred years after the “technical emancipation” of Blacks from slavery.
The title comes from the last line in the book:
“If we do not now dare everything, the fulfillment of that prophecy, re-created from the Bible in song by a slave, is upon us: God gave Noah the rainbow sign, No more water, the fire next time!“
Blacks do not have enough power to save the nation, but they have enough power to destroy it, and it could wind up coming to that if Whites go on doing nothing.
The best thing about the book is also the worst thing about the book: he avoids easy answers.
So far, Christianity and drugs have kept things from getting completely out of control. As his brother said:
“If Harlem didn’t have so many churches and junkies, there’d be blood flowing in the streets.”
But that is all they have done. The Nation of Islam (NOI) has done more for Blacks, but even that is not the answer. With its talk of “white devils”, it is based on the same lie that got us here in the first place: the lie of race:
“Whoever debases others is debasing himself. That is not a mystical statement but a most realistic one, which is proved by the eyes of any Alabama sheriff – and I would not like to see Negroes ever arrive at so wretched a condition.”
He had dinner with NOI’s leader, the Honourable Elijah Muhammad. That is in the book.
NOI’s ideas about a Black nation or a Black economy are unworkable: even if they could somehow be brought about, it would destroy the US. Many of the things Blacks take for granted would be gone.
Blacks and Whites need each other yet neither respects the other. If Whites see Blacks as the sons of Ham, Blacks see Whites as the sons of Cain. They are locked in a tragic embrace that may never end.
Blacks are “taught really to despise themselves from the moment their eyes open on the world”, and yet:
“White people in this country will have quite enough to do in learning how to accept and love themselves and each other, and when they have achieved this – which will not be tomorrow and may very well be never – the Negro problem will no longer exist, for it will no longer be needed.”
Like the Alabama sheriff, Whites are caught in the lie of race.
“whatever white people do not know about Negroes reveals, precisely and inexorably, what they do not know about themselves.”
Which means Whites do not know who they are. They need Blacks to help them:
“And if the word integration means anything, this is what it means: that we, with love, shall force our brothers to see themselves as they are, to cease fleeing from reality and begin to change it.”
– Abagond, 2015.
See also:
- A cross-post from James – from the first part of the book
- James Baldwin
- Harlem
- The curse of Ham
- internalized racism
- How to become White
- If you like this blog you might also like…
551
One of my all time favorite books ever.
LikeLike
And can the ‘simple’ minded here somehow learn from this. This man was a true thinker before his time and maybe beyond this still ‘shabby’ time that we live in. Because his concept of thinking has yet to even be fathomable in the current time. Good book and good ‘true’ deep thinker.
LikeLike
Even I struggle from shear pain and anger to get where this man has or is at times… Even though I know better.
LikeLike
““NOI’s ideas about a Black nation or a Black economy are unworkable: even if they could somehow be brought about, it would destroy the US. Many of the things Blacks take for granted would be gone.”
what would be gone that we couldn’t do for ourselves we existed for thousands of years without white people’s help, why do we “need” them?” Pumpkin, Ditto-as much as I have long loved Baldwin’s work and cherished his insight on such heated topics as this, I too wonder exactly what he was inferring by this statement as well..
LikeLike
There is an organization I would recommend everyone checking out. It’s called Coming to the Table whose members include the descendants of enslaved people and enslavers coming together for reconciliation. It’s four main premises are acknowledging the history and legacy of slavery, connecting with each other, healing and action. Visit http://www.comingtothetable.org for more information.
LikeLike
Stupid thought and obviously a dumb negro; baldwin has the exact same defeatist mentality of subconsciously worshipping Whites and whatever they do and wherever they are. Blacks DO NOT NEED WHITES AKA CENTRAL ASIAN ALBINO’S!!!
Blacks had writing systems and full scale cities and civilizations BEFORE WHITES AKA CENTRAL ASIAN ALBINO’S, WAY WAY WAY BEFORE THE ALBINO’S!! We can see this in Ancient Egypt, the West African empires, The East African Empires, Ancient China (whom were black), Indus Valley, and yes the Ancient Greeks (yes the original Greeks were black). ALBINO’S DID NOT HAVE A WRITING SYSTEM AND NEVER CAME UP WITH ONE ON THEIR OWN!!
IT’S ALBINOS/WHITES WHO NEED BLACKS BECAUSE OF THIS, THAT’S WHY THEY COPY SO MUCH OF BLACK CULTURE SO MUCH OF THEIR WRITTEN LANGUAGE (English) IS BASED ON A BLACK SEMITIC ALPHABET PHOENICIAN.
James Baldwin is just another ignorant idiot who subliminally admits white albino supremacism by thinking integration with them was the best and only thing and that blacks weren’t competent or mature enough to be on their own. In other words this is the same covert racist liberal thinking that views black people as children.
LikeLike
Felicia Furman, are you the albino women in the picture? It’s interesting to know that there were blacks in North America who formed some of the native american tribes and there was FREE BLACKS WHO CAME TO AMERICA FROM EUROPE WHO WERE NOT SLAVES!
I bet in your stupid liberal racist mind, it never occurred to you that this might actually be the case right?
LikeLike
@pumpkin People are not ready to start growing their own food supply, making their clothes etc, toilet paper even? In general
LikeLike
Mystical nonsense, Whites worked very hard to avoid acknowledging Blacks because they benefited from doing so. Baldwin may have left the church, but the church never left him.
“Which means Whites do not know who they are. They needs Blacks to help them:
Isn’t this the White savior complex in Black face? How could Blacks who couldn’t save themselves save Whites except through the good office of the divinely inspired James Baldwin? Who could blame a white person if he/she had asked Baldwin the prophet, why he was unable to work his ‘magic’ on his brethren, who were much more in need of saving than he/she was? Baldwin was a fine writer, but hopeless as serious political thinker. He ended up creating a little church consisting of himself as the prophet and his friends and hangers on as disciples. He needed his rich white friends for him to live his comfortable life in Southern France. The NOI had nothing to offer him because, he had found material comfort an intellectual satisfaction without having to put up with their nonsensical theology and thuggishness.
LikeLike
It could be Baldwin’s book dealt with how things were and would go down in 1963 in the U.S. I don’t think some of his statements then apply to how things are today.
In L.A. we have Korean, Chinese, Armenian, Mexican communities ect that are prosperous and thats normal and expected. But the idea of all Black communities gets met with skepticism and that would be “racist”. For whites to be comfortable with Black communties they need to get over their own racism but mostly what they do is interfer with other people’s affaires.
Their are some nice mostly Black communities here but I’m not sure whether I would describe them as supported by black economies.
This “fear of a black world” has been around since slavery and is very much a part of today.
Whites push this idea of “multicultural communities” which is an indirect way for whites to intervene in those communities. The L.A. times had an article lamenting that nobody showed up to these white led community meetings in Latino neighborhoods. If these neighborhoods knew what these white people have to offer … lol
LikeLike
Yes, I know that but this organization, Coming to the Table, is concerned with the descendants of enslaved people and enslavers in the America/US making connection; but anyone is welcome to join.
I am actually of European descent not albino and do feel stupid because I haven’t yet read The Fire Next Time. But I will after reading this post and the comments.
LikeLike
@ Pumpkin @ Mz Nikita
V8driver is on the right track.
Here is the quote from the book. Baldwin is talking to a Black Muslim who is driving him back from his dinner with Elijah Muhammad:
LikeLike
“we have the black farmers association to help with that, we should be growing our own food, it is healthier. i might grow some of my own food.”
Speaking of growing one’s own food, it’s interesting that several sage nations have banned the use of gentically modified seeds/crops (and fluorinated water).
Do Amerikkkan rulers do anything for the people that doesn’t involve a net increase of control, power and profits – at the expense of the people?
LikeLike
A Black economy wouldn’t necessarily be one that grows it’s own food or makes its own things.
What I was getting at is that in L.A. we have different desporia communities that have their own internal economies that aren’t directly dependant on white people and keep a lot of the money they generate within their own communities. Part of this is that they still have economic and social connections from their mother countries and money flows both between here and where they came from.
American Blacks unfortunately have been cut off and are dependent upon what they can generate here. The other a part of this is the police and justice sysytem don’t have Koreans and others with bulls eyes on them.
In arguing for Black economy/community I’m not suggesting it be like an independent country. If economic and racial barriers were removed we would see Black communties florish. What we have now resembles more a caste society.
I believe communties like “Black wall street” are possible today if the economic playing field leveled and the attack against the Black family ended.
LikeLike
I suppose these things taken for granted would include stuff like electricity, natural gas, loading docks and ship terminals, railroads, highways, airports, irrigation systems, oil wells, telephone lines, internet cables, servers, fresh water, mines, a monetary and financial system, national defense, etc.
People would have to live very locally, much like the Native American settlements before 1600, until they built up the infrastructure and trade routes and channels. People might have to do that soon anyhow, if the world runs out of oil or cheap energy.
Stuff like hospitals, schools and universities, local public security and locally based agriculture and artisans might be able to be reconstructed fairly quickly. The rest would take decades to reconstruct, but they might learn how to make canoes again fairly fast.
LikeLike
@mjb arent u an anarchist
LikeLike
What im saying is that ujaama is the right track, in general, from a logical and even logistical viewpoint but stacks of money will only be kindling or toilet paper even if the system shuts down for real or, we can learn chinese i guess
LikeLike
Sadly, I believe that Baldwin’s statement is still true today. While there are many of that have technical knowledge in a number of fields, I feel that we still have too few. What about the Internet and computers. Do we have enough computer programmers or people who really understand the anatomy of s computer? I’m a chemist, and was the only black PhD student for 5 years. There were more Turkish students than black Americans in my department ( which was on the South Side of Chicago, by the way)! Thus, do we have enough people that understand organic synthesis for preparing plastics and, most importantly, pharmaceutical drugs? How about how to make and fly an airplane? How many black aeronautical engineers and even pilots do we have?
I’ve been saying for years that black people need to obtain more skills. We’re very much stuck in a rut of working at the store, parking garage, bank, mailroom, etc., that in end if it comes to creating our own state, are totally useless “skills.” And don’t think that we can just purchase goods from white America, because believe me, we will be cutoff just as they have done to Haiti.
White America will also suffer, because for a while they will lack cheap labor for their restaurants, offices, etc in addition to the few professionals that we currently have. This would seriously hurt the White American economy for while; although eventually they will increase immigration to fill in the gaps (Mexicans/central Americans to fill low skill positions and Asians/Africans to fill professional positions).
That’s why always say, stop majoring in “social work” and major in science and engineering!
LikeLike
@ jefe and @ patent clerk – Exactly.
We don’t OWN anything. (And I’m saying this as a guy who owns my home and lots of rental houses (paid for, not mortgaged), a farm and half of another farm and I have interests in two nightclubs)
We don’t own the distribution nor the infrastructure and we would probably be treated like Haiti after their revolution or Cuba after the embargo.
Grow our own food? Pa-lease… No one wants to farm and even fewer are able. Black farmers are just now getting small payments from suits filed decades ago. Many farmers were paid NOT to grow crops so their children and grandchildren never learned the skills required to work and manage farms.
During segregation the white businesses still made money from minorities – even though minorities were mistreated and degraded they still consumed and aspired to these white products and services. Sure, some Black enclaves thrived but even they were reliant upon the white-owned infrastucture.
If an all-Black economy were possible it would have already been done.
(And yes I know about Rosewood and Tulsa but being able to defend against attacks is a basic requirement when it comes to being the one in power.)
LikeLike
@ Michael Barker
And much of that meddling is to ensure that other groups remain handicapped in the face of white competition. Which is why black independence inside and outside this nation will remain fleeting until the meddlers are robbed of their ability to meddle.
Unfortunately, that would mean the United States and any other white-led nation would have to have its geopolitical influence and ability to project military strength decline by remarkable levels. I just don’t see that happening any time soon.
Also, any independent black nation would have to watch for other nations willing to stab it in the back for a leg up and a pat on the back by the U.S., et al. See Dominican Republic vis-a-vis Haiti for this dynamic.
LikeLike
@Abagond, thanx for the excerpt about Baldwin’s intent on the topic of “Black” independence. I do not personally believe that Black folks “need” whites either to obtain this status either-yet, the part about how to sustain an economy that is entirely free from Western constraint is something that should, and needs to be examined thoroughly so it no small matter to gloss over..your thoughts?
LikeLike
I don’t understand a lot of these comments about a separate nation/ economy within this country. Why does it have to be a separate economy? Why don’t we start with community and go from there. A lot of other races that come to this country have their own separate enclaves, complete with small grocery stores, restaurants, churches, civic centers, etc. Corporations will supply the rest, managed by black people. I think it’s possible to work in a white world, but live in a black world and keep money flowing within a black community, Amerikka is made up of diverse communities despite the “melting pot” lie.
LikeLike
@Ben, True-but I believe that the primary reason for many Black folk desiring seperation/complete autonomy is because Africans (the whole diaspora) have, and still Are targeted for destruction, humiliation, exploitation, etc, more so than the majority of any other groups-especially the Western world, unlike other groups that have been (at least to a significant degree) “allowed” to thrive on much bigger and prosperous level.
LikeLike
Mark Lyons said,
“And much of that meddling is to ensure that other groups remain handicapped in the face of white competition. Which is why black independence inside and outside this nation will remain fleeting until the meddlers are robbed of their ability to meddle.” …. Exactly
v8driver “@mjb arent u an anarchist ?”
Yes. But that doesn’t mean anarchism opposes all hierarchies. Hierarchies held together by coercion and have a monopoly on force are opposed. Voluntary hierarchies are organic and rooted in mutual respect.
Their is nothing to fear in Black power or Black centrism because it doesn’t monopolize force and is voluntary within its community. Its needed to counter balance the white racial hierarchy that has monopolized justice and directs the force.
Mirkwood said,
“I feel compelled once again to offer a case for socialism.”
“Under a socialist country à la Norway, all the means of production and wealth would be controlled by the federal government.”
Norway has its hate crimes too. Socialism doesn’t make racism, bigotry go away.
http://www.newsinenglish.no/2015/08/19/norway-challenged-over-hate-crimes/
Socialism is not a system I would choose to live under but I have no problem with people forming socialists communities or any other communities formed under other ideologies if they are voluntary.
As an anarchist I oppose centrally controlled States because that is the institution that directs the force and controls the Justice system. That’s the institution responsible for all the wars, genocides and State violence against citizens over the last century regardless of each nations ideological bent.
And within that State is the anthropocentric reflection of the ruling tribe, white people as the standard by which all things are judged.
This 4 min video lays out the lens I see the world through.
(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OWpGR8Zg6pY)
LikeLike
Regarding Baldwin’s concerns and the possibility of Blacks becoming more self-reliant than they are today in America I have some ideas which I’ll expose in the next two comments in more detail:
– about an independent Black state/nation;
– about a more cohesive social/economic network of the Black population inside the present USA.
These are the two alternatives that Black Americans face towards improving their social condition.
LikeLike
Some thoughts about an independent Black state/nation
If Blacks want to think about an independent state, they should remember, first of all, that there are already many Black states in Africa and even in the Caribbean. Therefore, there is no need to think about that from scratch, as if it was the first time that a Black population becomes independent of a “White entity” from which it was dependent before. The examples of countries that went through a similar process could suggest a blueprint of what to do and what not to do in order to achieve and sustain the independent status.
I saw above some comments which express some concern about the ability of the Black American population “as it is” to be able to manage effectively such a new state.
For example patent clerk asks:
“Do we have enough computer programmers or people who really understand the anatomy of a computer? I’m a chemist, and was the only black PhD student for 5 years. There were more Turkish students than black Americans in my department… Thus, do we have enough people that understand organic synthesis for preparing plastics and,most importantly, pharmaceutical drugs? How about to make and fly an airplane? How many black aeronautical engineers and even pilots do we have?”
First, the general answer to these concerns (which are legitimate, by the way):
peoples all over the world grew (grow) to the challenges of self-determination, whatever the level of complexity inherent to those challenges and their prior development status; this fact was proven again and again, many times in the different continents.
Normally, before and during their transition to self-determination, a flood of doubts is spread, questioning their ability to self-govern, but as time goes those doubts are overcome, one by one. The main source of those doubts are the colonial masters who try to maintain their over-lordship over those peoples using a combination of force and the injection of inferiority complexes through propaganda and indoctrination.
Concrete examples abound and you should look at some of them closely.
Just a couple of suggestions.
Botswana was one of poorest territory in Africa when it become independent from Great Britain at mid-sixties. Today it transformed itself in one of the most prosperous countries on the continent.
India became independent from Great Britain in 1947 and it appeared then to be one poor place and a fractured society divided by tribal lines, castes and classes, unable to dream of a better future. Today it became the third largest economy in world (by Purchasing Power Parity) after China and the USA, and, therefore larger than its former masters’ economy. See CIA Factbook for more details.
patent clerk, your question about the shortage of certain categories of skilled professionals in the Black population is relevant but not limiting in the decision for or against self-determination.
Firstly, because after the independence you’ll find that foreign human and material resources can be harnessed to help the new state fill its gaps. You don’t live in a island in this world! Concrete examples of independent nations in Africa and elsewhere prove this amply.
Secondly, because the social landscape soon after the independence is radically different than it was before. The notion that now we are going to rely mainly on ourselves, as a people, is assumed by the general population, and the quest to fill the gaps, specially in managerial and technical skills, receives almost an automatic response from it. You will soon discover that now, many more families than before the independence want and press their children to further their studies and become doctors and engineers! Yes, from the same population where a few months or years ago you found a generalized state of apathy in regard to its own social advancement! This can surprise you, but its true!
Mozambique is a country in East Africa. When it became independent circa 40 years ago it had only a dozen individuals with a college education. Today more than 10 thousand young people graduate each year from its tertiary institutions and are ready to enter its market, filling a wide range of professions. And it is far from being the best example in the continent!
I must add that it is naive to believe that nations must be able to produce everything in order to survive. Nations – in the concert of nations – are like individual persons inside a given society. They must master some skills and be able to produce some items with which they can go to the international markets and exchange them by other items they need but are not able to produce themselves.
An example, again, is Mozambique, which does not produce computers and many chemicals it needs for various purposes and, despite this, I’m residing there and right now I’m using a modern computer to write this comment and at the end I’ll use my Internet connection to send it to Abagond’s blog.
This does not mean that, as the time goes, you’ll not want to expand the spectrum of products and services you can bring to international markets. For that, your workforce must grow in sophistication (education, etc), your entrepreneurs became more mature and your companies more competitive. All this comes with time.
The ability of a new state to survive despite some hostility from former masters comes from the fact that in the modern world we have a multitude of nations. If some would not like to befriend or simply maintain relationships with you, certainly many others would think otherwise. Nations and states follow their own interests in international relationships. You’ll discover that many nations will find mutual interests with you and will want to nurture a relationship on that basis.
Therefore the ability of a specific foreign state to block your development is limited.
For all that I said in the lines above, I don’t think that some fundamental obstacle to self-determination of Black Americans has already been identified in previous comments at this thread.
The main hindrance in the way of the formation of a Black independent state inside the actual USA territory would come, in my opinion, from the fact that the Black population there, is dispersed almost all over the territory.
A state presupposes a territory and frankly I don’t see where such a territory could be found in such context.
Ironically, this is the same problem that some White nationalist groups in the USA and some Boers in the Republic of South Africa would incur when trying to materialize their dreams of a “independent White homeland” inside the respective countries.
In all cases you don’t have a parcel of territory which you could identify and call home in a future independent state.
LikeLiked by 1 person
This book has recently (last night) been recommended to me. I was warned that it is a heart breaker of a book. What will any of you say about this heart break aspect?
LikeLike
@ munubantu re
“Some thoughts about an independent Black state/nation”
.
I appreciate you sharing your viable thoughts here. You’ve given me much to consider. Thank you!
LikeLike
I read some of it today; it was like a strange other world in some ways…
LikeLike
@ Legion
I did not think it was heartbreaking. Baldwin, a former preacher, is more like an Old Testament prophet, condemning evil and warning of doom if people do not change their ways. Even his language is Biblical. But, if you look on Blacks with pity and think Whites will not change their ways, then, yes, it could be a heartbreaking book to read.
LikeLike