The black woman chair (2013), also known as the “racist chair”, is a work of art by New York-based Norwegian artist Bjarne Melgaard. It is his take-off on “Chair” (1969) by British artist Allen Jones.
In Melgaard’s work, the seat of the chair rests on what looks like a bound, half-naked black woman. Jones used a white woman. Melgaard changed the race on purpose. As his art dealer put it, Melgaard made it “to destabilize and unhinge our hardened and crusty notions of race and sex and power.” Melgaard also made a black woman table.
Enter Dasha Zhukova (Даша Жукова), founder of the Garage cultural centre in Moscow. She grew up in Russia and California. She edits an art/fashion magazine, also called Garage. Zhukova is well-known in international art circles. She sits on the board of LACMA, an art museum in Los Angeles. Her boyfriend and the father of her two children is Roman Abramovich, the fifth richest man in Russia.
Buro 24/7, a fashion website in Russia, interviewed her in January 2014. On what was Martin Luther King Day in America, they put up the interview on their website with a picture of Zhukova sitting on Melgaard’s chair.
The picture shows Zhukova, a fully clothed white woman, sitting on top of a bound, half-naked black woman made into an object. Zhukova seems completely unconcerned, like it was no big deal: Western history in one picture.
It was swiftly condemned as racist and sexist on the Internet, though some defended it, like Jonathan Jones of the Guardian. Buro 24/7 did not take down the picture. Instead they cut off the bottom so you cannot tell what Zhukova is sitting on.
Buro 24/7:
Dear all, Buro24/7.ru team and I personally would like to express our sincerest apology to anyone who we have offended and hurt. It was absolutely not our intention. We are against racism or gender inequality or anything that infringes upon anyone’s rights. We love, respect and look up to people regardless of their race, gender or social status.
Uh-huh.
Zhukova:
I regret allowing an artwork with such charged meaning to be used in this context. I utterly abhor racism and would like to apologize to those offended by my participation in this shoot.
Alexander Kargaltsev, a Russian artist in New York, in answer to the Zhukova picture, put out one of his own showing a black man sitting on a white man, though both are naked and neither is bound. (Click here to the see the NSFW picture.)
Kargaltsev:
Sadly, I understand very well that my work will be seen by most Russians as provocative and inappropriate, while that repulsive image (published on Martin Luther King’s Day of all days in a year) will hardly make anyone over there shake their head.
Zhukova, who lived in California in the 1990s and early 2000s, in the age of Rodney King and O.J. Simpson, cannot be clueless. As to the fashion industry, they do this passive-aggressive thing too many times to think it is an “accident”.
See also:
- Buro 24/7: Interview with Dasha Zhukova (in Russian)
- racist art and fashion:
- Mindy Kaling on the cover of Elle
- New York Fashion Week and models of colour
This is just as disgusting as that hideous clitoridectomy cake that self hating jerk in the Netherlands did. I know they say art is subjective, what’s junk to me is art to someone else. I don’t know, go figure.
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Personally I find the chair much more sexist than racist, even though it has racist elements. In both instances the artist is using the woman as an object in perhaps the most reprehensibly way possible. She is bound, half naked and being degraded by being sat upon and objectified. She’s literally just a piece of furniture, a thing that exists for the service of others. This definitely harkens back to the slavery past and in as much as blacks are seen as things and non-entities to some, yes, like I say it’s racist.
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No, not the Netherlands, the hideous clitoridectomy cake was Swedish.
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Here is the rub concerning this garbage, the creator of this mess apologizes after there is outrage, they do this mess deliberately, they create this for shock value. They should save their faux apologies. But there will be something just as offensive in the next week or next month. I am no longer shocked about what’s passing for so called self expression and creativity. They just do this stuff for shock value.
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@Oogenhand: I think you are right. Thank you for the correction.
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@poetess: Yes it is sexist as well. I can see where you would see this as sexist over racist. I feel it can be both.
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Posting the picture, on the day it was posted, was in fact, intentional. They were intentionally courting controversy and page views. It was a cheap, low-blow, but it should be “expected” in what is being called our new “post-racial” society. It appears that people who were hidden racist now feel free, and compelled to their racist, sexist, and disrespectful behavior “all hang out.”
I have noticed a media trend lately of black women’s bodies & images being displayed like objects…things for public consumption & mockery. As if we are less than human and definitely not as women.
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What is the term to describe the behavior of a person who hates something and tries to discredit it because they actually want to posess it and feel they can’t have it?
I think thats really whats going on here.
Thats an anatomically correct black girl. I know this because I had one and that is not what they are used for.
Sux to be him.
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@Oogenhand: Mikode Linde was the Swedish artist name. Again thank you for correcting me.
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“Melgaard states he made it “to destabilize and unhinge our hardened and crusty notions of race and sex and power.”
Linda says,
This piece of sh’t masquerading as art is the “visual” example of the my words brought to life:
“the image of black and white women should be “equals” in the eyes of white western society because black women of the diaspora, as Afro-descendants, are also the children of white western society — instead what do we have:
white women=virtuous good girls; and black women=easy promiscuous bad girls
this image of black women being “sexual beings” is DEFINITELY a white man’s invention”
the only thing that this POS passing for Art does:
is reinforces the already built-in and “crusty notion” that black women are “heauxs” — and are inferior to white women and are on the bottom as far as society is concerned.
The F’ck !! Only white women are allowed to explore their sexuality, and use it to gain any “sustained” benefit – I guess Melgaard and Zhukova didn’t get the memo.
when has the modern day black/brown women EVER been able to have real Power using sex??? black women had more power using sex back in the slave days
The power of the “vagina” allowed many black female slaves to get freedom for their mixed-race children… and God help them if the white “massa” died early and his white WIFE was left with the power of “life or death” over her (black female) and her children.
“sex and power” is a white woman’s tool — black women were raped by white men — where the hell was the “power” then.
F’ck this back a’s, backhanded compliment to black women — this b’tch Zhukova can sit and spin as far as I’m concerned.
(sorry Abagond, I had to get this out of my system… I’ve had enough with white people/society/media trying to “define” black and brown women)
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There is absolutely nothing offensive about this. It’s just art. Calm down everyone.
Thank you,
Bobby M
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I am sorry but the so called naked Black man on top of the nake white man is also an insult. Hollywerd and white supremacy has been detroying the man hood of Black men in the media for decades. By putting us in dresses and making us take roles and affeminite gay men. White men in their quest to feel superior to other men have always accused other cultures men as being gay in the media. Asian Middle easter Mexicans and Black men
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Bobby M,
if you are the same racist white boy from the other post telling William he needs to get some “white pride”
then you too, sir, can take your comment and go kick rocks along with Zhukova — both your interpretations on what is considered “art” vs “sh’t” is not appreciated by black women.
Thank you
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If it was meant to be offensive, why backtrack when people call it racist and sexist?
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“What is the term to describe the behavior of a person who hates something and tries to discredit it because they actually want to posess it and feel they can’t have it?”
_ _ _
Sour grapes?
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Mary Burrell writes:
“Here is the rub concerning this garbage, the creator of this mess apologizes after there is outrage, they do this mess deliberately, they create this for shock value. They should save their faux apologies. But there will be something just as offensive in the next week or next month. I am no longer shocked about what’s passing for so called self expression and creativity. They just do this stuff for shock value.”
_ _ _
This sort of reminds me of the Michael Jackson music video from the early 90s where he is seen destroying a car, grabbing his crotch and maligning Jews as part of the lyrics of his song. When questioned about the negative aspects of the video, Michael begs innocence / naïveté and even states how, IIRC, Michael Eisner, CEO of Disney and a Jew, was a good friend of his. It certainly got people talking about the video.
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“Melgaard changed the race on purpose. As his art dealer put it, Melgaard made it “to destabilize and unhinge our hardened and crusty notions of race and sex and power.”
hmm now why does that sound familiar? ooh that’s right that is also the same excuse people use with the n word of saying they are trying to take the power out it by using it even more. if they wanted to do something on race why not do a satire piece or why not do something like this http://newsone.com/2799959/nate-hill-artist/.
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Are there any artists here who can tell me if the light lavender/purple marks on her have any artistic utility?
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wow a table and a chair, what’s next a dam bed oh or a couch?
yes I can see the sales pitch now
“Hey people ever wanted to go back to the good ole days, well no time machine needed, introducing our black women objectification furniture line. u can choose from the jezebel chair, complete with a half clothed black woman.. Kick ur feet up or sit ur drink down on The crawling black woman table, complete with.. well a crawling black woman on her hands and knees with her tidays out. For a limited time we will also have the mammy couch, where u can sit on a black woman’s lap while watching tv and feel all warm inside come on we know u miss the warmth and comfort of ur mammys lap.
And u can also place an order for a black woman lamp to complete ur living room look. It features a black womans legs in fishnets and a disco ball.
Now for the bedroom, come on u know u always wanted to see what black women are like in the bedroom so we got u covered. U can get a bed shaped like a black woman featuring her head and breasts as the head board and the footboard is well her feet, we are putting the foot in footboard. And u can also purchase night stands in the shape of a black womans ass.
and for u mandingo lovers we also have a lava lamp in the shape of a black d##. And we carry a bedroom mirror with the reflection of a mandingo in it, u install it over ur bed on the ceiling to give ur lady some eyecandy and something to fantasy about while sleeping or banging.”
disclaimer” *in chipmunk voice* ” warning the black women objectification furniture line does not protect against stds and hiv, so use carefully, if u experience feelings of joy, arousal, and superiority, the product is working…. and u are also a racist. If u experience loss of a social life, ur token black friend, ur dignity, ur love life, u are using the product wrong, nobody should know u have this in ur home, we live in a post racial society u know so ur not supposed to have this stuff out where others can see and be offended. blah blah blach. so don’t delay call today at 1800-getback or go to http://www.getbacktothegoodoledays. com
Black objectification furniture inc all rights reserved …for whites only.
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“This sort of reminds me of the Michael Jackson music video from the early 90s where he is seen destroying a car, grabbing his crotch and maligning Jews as part of the lyrics of his song. When questioned about the negative aspects of the video, Michael begs innocence / naïveté and even states how, IIRC, Michael Eisner, CEO of Disney and a Jew, was a good friend of his. It certainly got people talking about the video.”
With regards to the above quote as written by me, the Michael Jackson song mentioned is “They Don’t Care About Us”; the lyrics regarded by some Jewish groups are: “Jew me, sue me, everybody do me; Kick me, kike me, don’t you black or white me”; and the Jewish friends as claimed by Jackson were David Geffen, Jeffrey Katzenberg (then chairman of the Walt Disney Studios), Stephen Spielberg, Mike Milkin. My mistake, but (then CEO of the Walt Disney Studios) Michael Eisner was Not listed among them.
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Correction: *the lyrics regarded by some Jewish groups AS BEING ANTI-SEMITIC are*
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I am WEARY of this nonsense. Being aware of racism, self-hate, and general sleepwalking through life as if race doesn’t exist(I only see the PERSON) is tiring; yet once aware you cannot put one’s head back in the sand and pretend. Once the railing, writing out representatives in Congress/Senate, putting our money where our beliefs are shared and humanity is respected, how do you wash the stink of it off, try to live in some semblance of , if not the genuine real deal self-love bombarded by this nonsense? Where and with whom do black women go to be appreciated for being ? I am sincerely asking…..
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Geezus! What is it with white folks and their stupid ways of thinking? They are so freaken obsessed with black people. And Malcolm X was right. “The most disrespected person in America, is black women”. “The most unprotected person in America, is black women.”
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sasspot93710
Where and with whom do black women go to be appreciated for being ? I am sincerely asking…..
—————————————————————————————————-
Have you considered the mirror?
Why should someone appreciate a person who does not appreciate themselves?
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It’s about bondage. dominance/submission. Sexual domination of race and female.
The defining feature of western civilization reflected in art.
The creator is a shell lacking any sense of human value.
Our repulsion normal their denial expected.
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Why is it so cheaply made and garishly painted?
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It is cheap, sensationalist, exploitative cr/\p, both in concept and in execution.
Any sleazy d1ckhead can call himself an artist. It would be different if this composition had been realised in a way that made one think that it was satirising and protesting against the imbalance in power, status, justice etc between black and white. As it is, it is cheap provocation with no convincing political point to make.
What’s more, it is just a derivative work and not even original.
This is the level of “art” I have learned to expect to see hand in hand with fashion: shallow, superficial, pretentious, worthless.
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How distasteful and immature, under the pretentious guise of thought provoking art made to create progressive dialogue. They’e failed to break or even challenge whatever boundaries they claime they were attempting to confront, instead they’ve only served to reinforce dehumanisation in all its ugliness and hatred. How transparent. I’m not moved to think or feel, I’m not intrigued, nor am I shocked. It’s too cheap for any of that.
Very well said Michael Jon Barker
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Budduu, I couldn’t agree more.
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Bobby said: “There is absolutely nothing offensive about this. It’s just art. Calm down everyone.”
Bobby, I suggest you look at things from a historical, abstract and perspicacious angle. Perhaps then you’ll see how racist these so-called work of art truly are!
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Interesting,
This post has not attracted many of the Black males who post here whom only regard white men as racists and the ultimate problem of this world…
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See, this comment right here sounds VERY anti-social.
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@ Phoebe
You need to give a post a 24-hour cycle before drawing conclusions like that.
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The Clitoridectomy Cake was Swedish. It was meant to “raise awareness”. And, like in this case, white cultural elite figures saw nothing wrong with it.
I do not know how someone’s brain can function like that. It reminds me of that experiment they did with white people watching a black man drinking water – they felt NOTHING:
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So what if it’s racist? If you truly believe in tolerance, you need to have tolerance for all viewpoints, INCLUDING those which are the polar opposite of your own. As some of you may remember, I’m 3/4 Irish, and I don’t get all offended if someone makes a joke about the Irish. And the Irish had it MUCH worse than the Africans. But I can recognize that it is history and move on. Blacks are no different mentally or emotionally than whites, they are able to move on as well. Stop blaming white people, when no whites alive today enslaved anybody.
Thanks,
Bobby M
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Bobby M, you continue to f’k off and take your 3/4 Irish self back to the “fairy” land that told you the “Irish had it MUCH worse than Africans” — you delusional waste of space.
Thanks,
my Intolerant viewpoint of racist trolls
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Bobby M
So what if it’s racist? If you truly believe in tolerance, you need to have tolerance for all viewpoints, INCLUDING those which are the polar opposite of your own.
——————————————————————————————————
Thats right. This is what we all wanted. This is what we all voted for more of; FREEDOM!
Freedom only a Western style liberal government could give you;
you wanna live in Iran?
Pak-ee-stahn?
Saudi Arabia?
USA, USA, USA!
You are now free to fully persue your passions; sex ed in schools, gay marriage, unlimited porn…
Knock yourself out. We are going to give you so much FREEDOM you will become slaves to your passions.
Then your civilization will collapse.
Then lean hungry barbarians will conquer you; all because you couldn’t control yourself, and nobody was strong enough to do it for you.
“Thus, a good man, though a slave, is free; but a wicked man, though a king, is a slave. For he serves, not one man alone, but, what is worse, as many masters as he has vices.”– St. Augustine, City of God Writing at the time of the collapse of the Roman Empire
Libido Dominandi
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“Stop blaming white people, when no whites alive today enslaved anybody.”
*******
Um Bobby,
What’s really sad is that folks like you have no intellectual capital whatsoever, unable to reason from A to B to C, and folks who look like me are damn tired of explaining to the never ending supply of you clueless ones who pollute this blog how and why oppressive white-supremacy-racism STILL persists today in spite of slavery supposedly ending circa 1865.
You are in a good place here (to LEARN) if you would only read more and post a lot less.
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-I am so lost on how this is racist.
-I consider myself a feminist. There is clearly n unjust power dynamic between the sexes. That being said, i do not buy the objectification thing.
Men are naturally more visual than women. There is nothing wrong with sex or appreciating the way a woman looks. Street harassment is a different story. That is simply pure disrespect
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The Black Woman chair appears to have “tribal markings” of some sort. They almost look Maori in design. There are purple markings drawn on the Black Woman chair and not the other. Anyone know why? Anybody else even notice?
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@ Legion
I added a link to the Mount Rushmore post (and the Jim Crow Museum). Thanks.
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@ Bobby M
No one is saying the artist did not have the right to make his piece. But just as he has a right to make racist art, we have the right to call it out. NOT calling it out would allow whites to assume that there is nothing wrong with it. Stuff like the black woman chair helps to dehumanize blacks in many minds, strengthening racism. That in turn makes acts of racism more likely (police brutality, imprisonment, hate crimes, unemployment, etc).
Blacks in America are about where the Irish were in the 1850s: free and able to vote, but not yet fully accepted as Americans.
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Disgusting! Only a sick demented mind would create something so vile! It’s a combination of racism and a sexual fetish. This woman is a perverted demon. White women have always been the white mans greatest ally in spreading white supremacy. This whore is not fooling anyone with that empty “apology”. You’ve been exposed for the racist tramp you are!
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Does those markings make the chair less racist? I mean really. Dehumanizing piece of crap is what it is, quite simple.
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There is nothing wrong with this. This is harmless racism, just like Rucka Rucka Ali (ruckasworld.com) It is nothing more than entertainment.
Harmful racism is this http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/4d/Lynching-1889.jpg
Not this
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Jadapoo1
There are purple markings drawn on the Black Woman chair and not the other. Anyone know why? Anybody else even notice?
—————————————————————————————————–
Thats why I asked upthread if there was an artist in the house that knew what if any “artistic utility the markings had”. After all, unless you are an artist, you don’t know what an artist is to another artist.
It could be a secret message.
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this is not an apology. like maplethorpe in the 90’s (?), an attempt to shock, certainly not to create a dialogue, my 2c. it’s clearly offensive, at least it’s not on sale at ikea? idk what this dude was thinking with this one, much more comments on the ramifications than the intentions, i don’t have access time to really drill down into this one,
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The racism on the photo aside, the chairs are extremely, extremely sexist, degrading, and dehumanizing, basically reducing women to objects to be dominated. I can’t believe Abagond ignored how shockingly misogynistic these objects are in the post.
However, I do kind of think the idea of race reversal in the second chair was interesting. A white person sitting on a white woman chair is merely very sexist, but a white person sitting on a black woman chair is racist as well, apparently, simply because of the cultural reaction to white people dominating black people, even though the two chairs are otherwise identical.
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Yes, I would open to the artist elaborating on what he or she was trying to say with this piece.
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Women have smaller brains than men – proved by science
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2287523/Women-really-smaller-brains–use-efficiently-men.html
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Kushite Prince
Disgusting! Only a sick demented mind would create something so vile! It’s a combination of racism and a sexual fetish.
—————————————————————————————————-
When they pissed on Christ, I was silent because I was not a Christian.
Now that they are taking a sh*t in my soul, there is no one left that matters.
The Creator is not without a sense of irony.
*Be advised*
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pi4nDKO-UFY)
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Bobby M
I know everyone’s taken turns telling you everything wrong with the following statement, but I’ll participate anyway:
So what if it’s racist? If you truly believe in tolerance, you need to have tolerance for all viewpoints, INCLUDING those which are the polar opposite of your own. As some of you may remember, I’m 3/4 Irish, and I don’t get all offended if someone makes a joke about the Irish. And the Irish had it MUCH worse than the Africans. But I can recognize that it is history and move on. Blacks are no different mentally or emotionally than whites, they are able to move on as well. Stop blaming white people, when no whites alive today enslaved anybody.
1. The problem when it comes to people arguing on behalf of tolerance is that those people REALLY want us just to stay quiet and not react, at least not in a way that potentially hurts their feelings, to the crap they do that offends other people. In other words, we’re supposed to just sit and take it. Sometimes, we’re told to enjoy it!
2. Just because you don’t get offended over Irish jokes doesn’t mean the world should follow suit given similar or equal situations. Besides, Irish jokes in bad taste do not hold as much weight as jokes about POC, and at the end of the day, you STILL benefit greatly from being white.
3. How in the hell do Irish people have it much worse than Africans? If you’ve answered that, I’ll read it.
4. We’ll stop blaming whites when they stop being racist.
5. Who on Earth mentioned enslavement? Isn’t it funny how white people always blame us for mentioning slavery when it was NEVER mentioned by anyone except that one white person who made the accusation?
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Realistically Bobby M does not have the mental capacity to really engage anyone on an intellectual level. That is frankly why I don’t even bother. I mean the guy thinks that because he is 3/4 Irish that he knows more about the Irish than they do.
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V8driver beat me to it, I had another thought to bring to the discourse, I do remember Maplethorpe. I being a newly born again Christian at the time was so offended by his very controversial piece entitled “Piss Chirist” A rosary in a container of urine. I thought that was vile. This was in the very early 80’s. I have another perspective to add to the discourse about this piece, The Black Woman Chair. I guess this is what some would consider avant-garde. I want to give the artist the benefit of the doubt, is he a racist? Is he a hater of women? Maybe the piece is trying to address the misogyny in society. The black woman is seen as something like an inanimate object. Something to be ignored. Invisible. A chair is an inanimate object. Society see the black woman as something to be sat on defecated on. Disrespected and dismissed. This just another perspective from my point of view.
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So far I will call this sexist as hell and demeaning. I can’t see this as art.
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Yeah, my grandmother is Irish, born and raised; Ireland really has nothing to do with this, but “tolerance,” includes freedom of speech.
I’m pretty sure Abagond is aware this is both racist and sexist. The explanation on the piece, was that it’s about looking at both race and sex, so any mainstream feminists saying this is just about gender have missed that part as both the aspect of gender and the race were consciously brought to the table. When it comes to a piece like this, there’s a confluence of both race and gender at play here, as Black women are not just women, they’re also Black, so there’s clearly another dimension to the intent and the category of “who should be offended.” Lastly, it’s a White WOMAN seated on the Black woman and therefore, that’s the submission and dominant picture we’re presented with here. And this was also released on MLK day which I would imagine is no coincidence.
If we were to bother to take this seriously, possibly on the merit of some extremely interesting comments on here addressing this piece, a worthy issue highlighted is the ignorance on the intersectionality of oppression, and how much Black women contend with race as Africans, but as double minorities, as women, have no business in mainstream feminism.
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I am learning from this. I have heard the phrase “Art is subjective” I suppose that is true. Still trying to learn what that means. I have learned art can have many interpretations. Art can illicit many responses. It is a cliche’ but what’s art to one person is junk to another person. This is a good post.
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@Pay It Forward: I can see how the song by Michael Jackson, “They Don’t Really Care About Us” Jackson was an artist. Yes he used some very ugly racial epithets at the expense of Jewish people to make a statement about society’s dismissal of marginalized people. In art, the artist uses controversial to make their art. I think that was a good example.
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*controversy*^^^^^^^^^^^^
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Yes, I agree Mary.
I always looked at Michael’s song as putting himself in the role of a racist and speaking like one in defense of the Jewish community and to highlight racism. Much in the same way I understood Axl Rose highlighting police brutality against African Americans on the West coast in the early 90’s by putting himself in the role of a racist police officer and speaking as such in a verse in a Guns & Roses song. It’s tricky, this is accepted with cinema but is considered unacceptable in music, and art usually utilises pictures not words, so the field of interpretation is much wider and visuals which are often far more galvanising and propulsive, create are much stronger response. It’s a tricky line to tread.
I do believe if this artist’s intent was to address social injustice and immoral hierarchy, the controversy would have prompted he or she to come out and explain the honourable intent behind it. Instead, they’ve quickly retreated with an apology, so it seems as though they just wanted to shock for attention and used the old fashioned, trusted, oppression of a race and a gender of a race to do that just that.
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@ mary that sounds interesting and scottie lowe thought about the same thing here’s her facebook post https://www.facebook.com/scottie.lowe.afro/posts/818576228158807
But my thing is why release it on mlk day, and why not stand by it. Why not say this is to bring attention to racism and sexism that black women face. Why hurry up and cut off half the picture instead of leaving it the way it was and telling people it is to bring awareness. If they would’ve done it like that and also had the roles reversed to show how different the responses are to both then I would be applauding it.
If they would’ve had a black woman sitting on a white woman chair, or a white man sitting on a white woman chair there would’ve been more outrage from the feminists, and if they would reverse it and have whites on the bottom that would’ve gotten people really talking as abagond posted how whites had different reactions to when whites drank water and had no reaction to when blacks and south Asians drank the water. Since a lot of whites can only see their hurt why not do it that way. to me that would’ve been more effective, it would’ve been like the brown eye blue eye experiment. like ok if u hate this art of a white woman being objectified then just imagine what black women go through in society, but they didn’t do that. so it seems it was more for publicity than anything.
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@ Bobby M; Sir you are just profoundly ignorant.
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And also they did a study and found a lot of people thought blacks feel no pain, so even if this was meant to address racism and sexism, the targeted audience wouldn’t have cared or gotten the message. Their response would be oh but I never sat on a black woman, I don’t own a black woman, who cares.
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@mstoogood4yall: I don’t really know what the artist intentions were. That’s what I am learning about art and it’s interpretation. One thing we can all agree on, It’s got people talking. And that is probably what his intention was to get a response out of people.
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@ Ebonymonroe: Those are good points.
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I was just trying not to be so narrow minded and try to be objective. But my first response on last evening I was just disgusted. I was just trying to get a grasp on the subject of how to interpret art. I really want to be able to have intelligent discourse about these types of subjects. Baby steps in my case. But I am still learning.
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The faux apology is an indication of his intentions. Seems kind of shady.
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As art I don’t like the chair. I don’t think it’s saying anything new or profound, or interesting. I don’t see it as good art “because it gets a reaction.” Plenty of bad art also gets a reaction of inspires a dialog (about how bad it is)
That being said:
For me this would be a lot more cut and dried if it was original. But as it stands, it’s just a contemporary Swedish artist, recreating the 40-year old work of a modern British artist. It takes a work originally done with a White female figure and replaces it, almost verbatim, with a Black female figure.
So when it was White it was what? Maybe sexist? But as soon as the skin color changed, it immediately became racist? I don’t know what the significance in changing the figures from Black it White was for the artist, and I’m not going to assume that my best guess must be THE TRUTH about it.
The second problem I have with the easy racist label is that this seems to wander into the world of Kink. And I pretty much just steer clear of trying to explain, and understand “sex art,” or other people’s turn-ons, for that matter. I don’t think I can make blanket statements, about how the participants see each other, or how they process their peculiar sexual practices. To be honest, it confuses me, and I’m not really sure if such things fall within the usual definitions of racism or not.
I wouldn’t like to see such things plastered on magazine covers or in my local museum.
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^^^
*create a much stronger response
*to do just that
@mstoogood4yall
We share the same suspicion.
@Mary
I agree, while initially just repulsed, I’ve found myself going back to it and wondering what the artist was actually trying to say. But I have a strong feeling I’m validating a publicity stunt billed as art that was never made with the intent to address oppression, but rather to use it for attention, with the open minded approach I’ve drifted in and out of over the last few hours.
I would give the benefit of the doubt if the artist’s intentions were innocent enough that he/she could come forward and defend his/her intent. Until then, I shall have to be closed minded and view it as what it stands being accused of. This happens too often and the intent is never honourable. But I too gradually reacted with that same open minded perspective. At the very most, perhaps it will spark worthy dialogue.
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“And also they did a study and found a lot of people thought blacks feel no pain….”
_ _ _
There also exists, among some people, the belief that animals do not feel pain.
When an injured animal yowls, yelps and cries out, this behavior does not seem to register to some people as evidence that the animal is in pain. Perhaps, though, this bizarre belief is more a consequence of the lack of empathy, sympathy and respect some people have for animals than it is anything else.
I suspect the strange notion that Black people feel no pain is similarly founded….
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@abagond Why did you delete my comment about women’s brain size
Also, I’ve never benefited from being white. In fact, I’ve been called Cr*cker. That is just as offensive is N*gger.
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^ Haha
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(http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=KXZ7YRb_EMY)
I keep seeing someone doing this.
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King,
“So when it was White it was what? Maybe sexist? But as soon as the skin color changed, it immediately became racist? I don’t know what the significance in changing the figures from Black it White was for the artist, and I’m not going to assume that my best guess must be THE TRUTH about it.”
Maybe it’s the sexism thing throwing you off. Since you’re not sure if depicting women, who are constantly objectified, as furniture is sexist, I’m going to say that’s what is causing the confusion.
It’s sexist and racist because of the way women and black people are routinely objectified. It’s two groups of people who have literally been viewed and treated as objects. The artist’s intent doesn’t matter. If he intended anything else he has to be oblivious to the world around him. However, according to the artist’s words he seems to be aware of the objectification of women and black people.
The white woman chair isn’t racist because white people aren’t objectified. Women are so it’s sexist.
The black woman as a chair is racist and sexist because women and black people are constantly objectified for being women and for being black.
I’m always amazed at how clueless most anti-racist men become as soon as sexism comes into play.
The oppression of women just seems like the natural state of women to them jus as the oppression of black people seems natural to racists.
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“The defining feature of western civilization reflected in art.”
When I think of western civilization I think of narcissism, bondage, exploitation and violence all of them woven into supremacy.
S&M role plays bondage and violence. The white woman make up forced upon a black woman’s face. The utilization of the body into a chair and a table. The objectification reflects the narcissism of our culture.
To me it represents everything that’s wrong.
To be fair their may be some redeeming qualities to western culture but as I type this nothing comes to mind.
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Possibly.
Women, as a category are constantly objectified, even by other women. So yes, that adds a wrinkle. But, as you say, the most obvious objections are sexual in the original, the adding of race complicates it.
Really? So if men of color see a White woman (for example) as a status symbol or saint, or as a sociological statement, that isn’t objectification?
Lets be clear. Are you saying that you think that I see the oppression of women as their natural state? Where did you get that from?
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Soulsearch said
“The white woman chair isn’t racist because White people aren’t objectified. Women are so it’s sexist”
King said
“Really so if a White woman (for example) as a status symbol or saint, or as a sociological statement that isn’t objectification?”
…………….
Yes it’s objectification, but not due to race, but gender.
May I ask why you struggle to percieve this as racist? Do you find it difficult to grapple the idea of the objectification of Black women as being both racist and sexist at the same time?
(Sincere question.)
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I’m sorry but this was a fail attempt of “art”.
The person knew what they were doing when they made this. What perfect way to get people talking then use a hot button issue like racism AND….of course you can’t get people yapping without the most talked about race….black people.
This artwork is really tired. I’m not gonna lie, I wasn’t in the least offended by this. When I first saw this image I thought “Oh,…..so that’s what we’re doing now?”.Besides the “shock”.(If that’s what you wanna call it) what the heck is there to observe? Nothing.
Pathetic, gosh this generation is SOOO lazy. Everyone wants shock in their art, but not value.
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I disagree. When men of color see a White woman as some kind of trophy, or as a way of proving their own male social value (rather than as a flesh and blood person) the reason is not just sexual. but because they are White. How is that not due to race?
“May I ask why you struggle to percieve this as racist? Do you find it difficult to grapple the idea of the objectification of Black women as being both racist and sexist at the same time?”
The thing that gets in the way for me is the context of the newer work to the previous work. Bear in mind that I’m not saying that I cannot be persuaded that it IS racist, I just have some reservations. Also, as an aside, let me be clear that if this was a “Black man chair” based on a previous “White man chair” from 1969, I would be wondering about the exact same questions.
But let me give an example that may better explain my struggle:
What if we take one of the old portraits of ‘El Pagliacci’ (the famed clown from the Italian opera). Let’s say that in modern times, an artist re-painted such a portrait but instead made ‘El Pagliacci’ a Black man?
Walking by the gallery window, I look up, and see the portrait, and immediately conclude that it is racist!!!
– Showing the Black man as a clown is totally different (because Black men are oppressed)
– Why is the clown crying? When applied to a Black person the tears Pagliacci cries may be interpreted as him being weak, or a cry baby1
– Pagliacci is part of a love triangle in the opera. Too many times Black men have been portrayed of sexual threats!
– Pagliacci is violent and uses a knife on his rival. This might be a racist statement about Black men as the ever-present violent threat!
There is no longer any reason to even ask what the artist intended or what point he was making! The mere existence of a Black man painted as a clown is of ITSELF racist and there can be no other explanation, even though the portrait of Pagliacci was just a recreation, completely guided by copying a previous work.
Now, to me that is very different than if someone just decided to paint a mocking picture of a Black man as a clown. It is totally possible to have a racist “Back Man as Clown” painting, but that is a far cry from saying that EVERY painting of a Black man as a clown is AUTOMATICALLY racist, because Black men are oppressed.
No analogy is perfect, of course, but I’ve tried to give you a related scenario to try and honestly illustrate why I’m hesitant.
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King,
“Yes it’s objectification, but not due to race, but gender.
I disagree. When men of color see a White woman as some kind of trophy, or as a way of proving their own male social value (rather than as a flesh and blood person) the reason is not just sexual. but because they are White. How is that not due to race?”
Is that going on here? No, it isn’t.
But at least you can comprehend racism and sexism when it comes to black men objectifying white women.
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I think the artist proved his point when Zukhova sat on his chair. Art shows us stuff we can not see, do not want to see, or are unable to see, and clearly we can see that Zukhova is a racist who does not understand the meaning of this object, hence proving its point.
I think the “chair” is a anti-racist piece of art as well as anti-misogynist. It challenges the semiotics of the previous sexist work by adding the race in to the piece, thus making it impossible to look at it as an object, where as the original which was simply sexist was taken just as an object (women as objects of sexual exploitation and to be used at will).
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^ Interesting interpretation, sami.
I don’t buy it at all, but it’s at least plausible.
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@ sami parkkonen
Well, that is the thing about art.
Art is so full of irony, social sarcasm, and mirror-holding that it’s much harder to make absolute statements about how it should be understood.
If an artist paints a woman with a gag tightly wrapped around her mouth, is he a misogynist, painting his ideal of controlling women’s ability to speak???
…Or is he making a statement to society, “Hey, this is what you are doing!”
That goes on in art all the time, Which is why the fact that it is art also potentially complicates things.
Ha… only if Zukhova herself is not herself taking the anti-racist, anti-misogynist message even farther by demonstration… “This is what we as White people do… this is what the artist is saying.”
I’m not saying I necessarily buy into any single argument, I’m just saying that art, being what it is, complicates the possible interpretation. You have to ask a lot more questions with art that you would have to with other mediums of communication.
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@ Solesearch
I don’t follow…
I was responding to a statement by Ebonymonroe that White people are not objectified.
My statement was pointing out that they actually are.
So yes, that is what’s going on here.
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I think the other thing that has me confused about the piece i(as I’ve already said) is the kink/sexual element to it.
Is this just S&M pornography? And if so what does that mean racially?
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Western culture is the greatest culture ever.
The Africans had it coming from miles away.
Move on and man up
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@King
the artist did say he was addressing race and gender, so it’s obviously at play here. As far as kink, yes, women, including Black women, are usually objectified in a s-xual manner, by being reduced to things there for the pleasure of men.
As far as White women being objectified by men of colour, I suppose men of colour can objectify White women, but it wouldn’t be racist, it would be prejudice as racism is a systemic, institutional form of oppression over a people group, and Black men do not have the ability to do that. Perhaps it would be applicable in Africa or the Caribbean or some other Black country, however.
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king and mary
u both bring a different point of view to this. i’m confused myself. And as for the bdsm element idk, all I know about it is that one person is called the dom and the submissive is also called a slave.This country was built on the backs of slaves, idk maybe that is why she is on her back and in some bdsm outfit to represent the submissive (slave). could be to show how the country was built on the backs of slaves and how whites are oblivious to it and enjoy their privilege because of it. and they made a table and the glass is on her back, the glass ceiling perhaps. We know they did this to get attention, but was it to get attention for themselves or the actual issues of racism and sexism.
king ur analogy of the clown, reminds me of an episode of totally biased where they took to a bar and asked people if they thought the Washington redskins name was racist, and people said no. Then he asked well what if it was named the blackskins, the c()(0n skins would that be racist, and they said yes. But as somebody else pointed out why the marking the original had no markings so what could it mean? But i see the upclose pic shows the markings but the one with her sitting on it i can’t see the markings.
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No, it would be racist, because Black men in objectifying White women are in fact, supporting the very system of White Supremacy that they suppose themselves to be overcoming. It’s just that in that particular case, it’s self-inflicted racism (along with prejudice, as you say).
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Aaaahhh, this angle you speak of is true. But I meant racist toward White women, not racism in the context of reinforcing White supremacy and Black inferiority.
Ooh, nice comeback.
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Yes I was just waiting to come back with that 🙂
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Well, mstoogood4yall, I think it becomes more confusing when sexual behavior and ethnicity become equivalent.
So the Kink person says, you are in the majority because you engage in normative (vanilla) sex therefore you have a kind of normative *sexual privilege* that I, as a Kinky person, do not have! So for you to try and judge my kink, based on your own normative views is a form of sexism and sexual prejudice!
Do you see what I did there? I just made liking sex with whips and chains the equivalent of being Black.
So the question I guess is whether this is legitimate or not, Because if it is, then we would all be hard pressed to critique Forniphilia in any form.
But to your other point, art is often used to get attention both to causes and to the artist. My personal opinion is that art is also commonly used to hide behind when a person wants to say or do something that they could not get away with under any other circumstances.
That is a big part of my confusion as to how to judge this. It’s something I need to work through more thoughtfully.
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@King
Lol. The artist (if his or her intention is truly honourable) would have to come out and explain exactly what his or her intention was. Don’t forget this was released on MLK day, and the artist quickly retreated with an apology instead of standing beside the work and taking the time to explain it. The Swedish cake, though it was very horrible idea, was not abandoned by the artist with just an apology, because he was sincere in trying to confront injustice so he was able to quickly explain his intent. But this is not what has happened here.
I have given it some thought, but I remain sceptical.
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Ebony, I have heard of the magazine making apologies, I don’t know if the artist has of not (and that would be the important part)
As for MLK Day, if the magazine was trying to make a point, then they should have said that the reason they did it on that day was to make the point more obvious. (Where is Olivia Pope when you need her?)
I’m truly not saying one way or another. I honestly don’t know.
I’m only saying that it’s not absolute, and that people who are still trying to figure it out (or even those who eventually come to a different conclusion) should not be labelled as somehow misogynists or unsupportive of Black women.
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Fair enough sweetheart.
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I know that someone already mentioned it, but it does not appear that anyone has answered the question, perhaps because it was overlooked, but I would REALLY love to understand what the heck the purple marks are on her body supposed to be or represent? Are they supposed to be marks from a beating? Her face, her breast, & her legs from what I see, all have the marks…. This add a whole new level of interpretation to me if it is supposed to be the “result” of a beating.
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Looking at the markings I’m not sure it was to create any more symbolism or be tribal but just to highlight “body parts” of the chair.
The original artist may have had some merit or something as an actual attempt here but its clear the magazine is just playing “shock jock”.
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Oh get over it. This is how white people are and this is what white people do; I don’t know why you’re are so hurt and surprised by it. There’s no use crying a river or trying to get them to ‘accept’ you or see you as equals or as human beings worth empathising with because it is not in their nature (as we’ve seen in the last, I don’t know – five hundred years) and it just makes you all look pathetic. The only reason why you’re ‘shocked’ by this is, despite they’ve illustrated much more effective examples of being ‘anti-Black’, is because you still crave their acceptance and validation. ‘Oh why would they do this to us? Why? Waah waah waaah!’ Why would a lion eat a human being if the human being fell into its den? Why do mosquitoes bite? Why does bacteria/viruses attack? Because that’s how they’ve been designed, regardless of how one sees it – just as whites have been designed to do as they do to you- but I don’t see people racking their brains over the lion, the mosquito and the viruses.
They do things like this for that very reason, by the way. Because they know HOW to get you upset – to control how you feel and from what I’m seeing, they do it successfully. Every damn time. You make it SO easy. They’re not stupid. This chair was made with the emotions of Blacks in mind. Blacks who still fight to be ‘equal’ to a race of people who don’t even wash their hands after they are done p*ssing all over the rim of the toilet seats in public restrooms – people who don’t even understand the basic concept of hygiene and seasoning meat – people, who for some messed up reason, a majority of Blacks find superior and intimidating. Maybe if Blacks stopped giving them the reaction that they obviously want then they wouldn’t even bother.
Signed, 22 year old Black woman who is fed up of seeing other Black people give the people they tried to civilize, so much power – especially over things that aren’t even worth giving energy to.
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We can all agree it’s a damn ugly chair if we can’t agree on anything else
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Bobby M,
It must be so nice to be so sheltered from reality.
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As the purple marks are curved rather than straight, I doubt that a whip (or belt) would leave markings such as those in the pic; and in the case of blunt force trauma, there would probably either rounded or diffuse bruising rather than the type of linear marks featured on the chair.
Perhaps the purple marks were used as emphasize for the fact that the chair is an artifact, and not a human being. Or maybe they are meant to highlight certain curved areas on the body, e.g. the cheek, breast, hip & leg area et cetera. Maybe they were simply put in place for a bit of added flair.
I am an artist myself and have studied art history as well: not everything in art is meant to have meaning or symbolism.
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*emphasis NOT emphasize
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@ Legion
I was thinking the same thing.
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@Ebonymonroe
@King
About MLK day. I would be shocked if more than 5% of Russians knew MLK day exists and a lot (most?) of those who do know about it probably wouldn’t be able to find it on a calendar… It’s not exactly a global holiday…
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@Pro-B*tch
Thanks but no thanks. I don’t usually take advice from people who refer to themselves as a B*tch in any shape and form.
P.S. Don’t care enough about the chair to have a real reaction.
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@Kiwi
No problem and thank you because you actually reminded me of something I wanted to present in the beyonce thread.
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My wife who is a crafter once said that artist don’t have to think about peoples mind they just foolish create what they want to. Where as a crafter needs to make things that are useful. Direct rub against me though as I do fine art. Why in hrll would you sit on it?
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That entirely depends upon whether the art is meant to be interactive or merely contemplative.
I think it truly depends on your opinion of the true role of art.
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@Sharina: What’s funny is that the term ‘b*tch’, outside of the Western World’s definition – or at least what the Western world has taught you – was a term that high Priestesses in some areas of Africa, including Ancient Egypt, dubbed themselves. But knowing how much peopled are so ‘afraid’ of words, I was considerate enough to censor it.
And you don’t have to take my advice. If giving onto the white people the authoritative role (for it is appears that they are in complete control of so many Black people’s emotions and state of belief) makes you feel better, then – just do you.
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The word ‘saluta’ – which is from a Nubian language translates to ‘b*tch*…just in case one was wondering if they were using the exact same term/word…
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@ George Ryder: I’m fully aware that Blacks haven’t always been under a state of oppression by whites. That wasn’t my point. My point was that whites have illustrated – and more than two hundred years, their contempt and obsession with Black people and have done worse to Black women, than sculpt a chair of one in a sexual submissive position. It shocks me that Blacks are still distraught and surprised by despicable and perverted white antics – almost as if they’re still hoping (because Black people are good at that), that they have changed or that the white people they so desperately seek love and acceptance from, hate them any less. This, being their emotion and the anger, is all to do with how a people they have been conditioned to look at as superior or more powerful, see them and they don’t want to admit it. Which is why my user name was brought up by one poster, who seems to think the scary ‘B word’ and my employing of it, makes my original comment unworthy of even reading.
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Pro-B*tch said
“It shocks me that Blacks are still distraught and surprised by despicable and perverted white antics – almost as if they’re still hoping (because Black people are good at that), that they have changed or that the white people they so desperately seek love and acceptance from, hate them any less. This, being their emotion and the anger, is all to do with how a people they have been conditioned to look at as superior or more powerful, see them and they don’t want to admit it.”
…………………………………………………………
You’re making some pretty sweeping generalizations and assumptions about Black commenters who are simply expressing that they find this appalling. I don’t think one expressing their disgust over this can automatically be labeled as “conditioned,” or accused seeking the validation of White people. That could be considered a very “White low opinion” of your very own Black people just for utilizing their freedom of speech.
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@Pro-B*tch
I will look up the validity of what you say in regards to the word. Though you would probably be more believable with a source.
“But knowing how much peopled are so ‘afraid’ of words, I was considerate enough to censor it.”—Sorry I don’t suffer from the “fear” of words you speak up. Though Realistically you had no choice but to censor it as it would have gone into moderation, so no need to do it on my account or anyone elses for that matter. As I am not one to care what YOU do.
“If giving onto the white people the authoritative role (for it is appears that they are in complete control of so many Black people’s emotions and state of belief) makes you feel better, then – just do you.”—See that is the big thing here. Your not giving me advice for something I already do (though mine includes a certain type of black people too). I don’t really carry the emotional baggage enough to have any “real” reaction, but you had one in your long “Advice” at black people.
Good day 🙂
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correction on you’re
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@ebonymonroe regarding the GNR song, not sure what you are referring to, i think this is the one
http://www.azlyrics.com/lyrics/gunsnroses/oneinamillion.html
(NSFW)
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Yeah that’s the one babe.
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@Pro-B*tch
For starters , after a short moment of research I found “salute” to be an Italian word. Here is a list of cuss words in other languages. If you have a better source please provide.
http://www.youswear.com/index.asp?word=bitch#.Uuvij_stSuE
Secondly try talking to me and not about me with another poster. Avoids mishaps and confusion.
“This, being their emotion and the anger, is all to do with how a people they have been conditioned to look at as superior or more powerful, see them and they don’t want to admit it. Which is why my user name was brought up by one poster, who seems to think the scary ‘B word’ and my employing of it, makes my original comment unworthy of even reading.”—Thirdly I would prefer if you not assume that because I take issue with the word b*tch that I somehow feel whites are “superior”. It would be a grave error on your part and one that will likely leave you in the ridicules position of doing what most white racist around here end up doing. You can go on and on about how I refuse to admit it but then that would only be you further utilizing white antics to make your point more valid. I don’t like the word because it frankly is an overused term in black music for the purpose of demeaning black women. It is not an uplift term as some female artists have attempted to make it with fail. I think Lupe explained purposely the differences and how it is viewed depending on who is saying it (men or women).
Fourthly I never said your comment was unworthy of reading as I actually read it. I just did not feel the need to follow your advice. Which I am entitled to.
Finally I am not the only person who brought it up. I am just the only one you decided to address.
Again good day 🙂
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King,
“I don’t follow…
I was responding to a statement by Ebonymonroe that White people are not objectified.
My statement was pointing out that they actually are.
So yes, that is what’s going on here.”
I meant is that what is going on with the white woman chair. Black men objectifying white women? I thought the artist was white.
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correction “saluta” not solute
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RedPaperLantern
but I would REALLY love to understand what the heck the purple marks are on her body supposed to be or represent?
——————————————————————————————————-
Since no artist offered a logical anwser to this question, I will present my own.
(yes I am an artist)
1. Color looks good on color; especially purple on black and gold on black. Those of you whom have done some interior decorating know what Im talking about.
2. Balancing the hot spots. Other photos are available, but based on this image, the purple marks appear to be associated with “hot spots” of light. Hot spots tend to occur when photographing dark glossy objects. They occur on light skin too, but since light skin is light, less light is necessary so less hot spots occur. On the white model, pink color marks could have achieved a similar effect.
In film and TV production a good make up artist must be ably to kill hot spots with a minimum application of make up; an art made more difficult today with HD recordings.
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Well, at that particular moment we were not discussing the artist and chair directly, we were engaging in a tangential discussion about objectification. And it was within this tangent that I made my reply.
That is why asking how my reply related to the original post was confusing, since the reply was relating to something else that came up in the broadening discussion.
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I consider myself extremly liberal when it comes to art, but I hate this, this has nothing to do with the things im talking about on the other thread
this is ugly
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@ King, I still feel like it raise all kinds of flags to sit on. Even sitting on the one that is a white woman. It seems like it kind of like look at me I am a bad @ss because I can sit on it. I’ve worked a lot with interactive artist I guess if it was in an S&M setting it would make more sense to me. Although I have no desire to sit in any of those chairs presented above. I have an amazing talented friend who learn some kind of painting technique that few alive still knows. All he does with it is paint his Richard I am still not impress but a lot of people are. I don’t find much thought in most shock art there are a few that really out to push the limits but this piece doesn’t seem like one. It is a little trite to me.
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@thwack
Thank you very much for offering your opinion on what the possible reasoning behind the marks might be. It really does make sense that they would been added to draw light, dimension, or the eye to certain parts. Thanks again.
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Is it just me? or does anyone else get the sense that some percentage of the anger/ criticism directed at this peice is really a mask to cloak a percieved societal desexualization of black women, and therefore in an ironic twist actually promote it by pretending to be angered by it?
For example; women say they don’t want to be sexually objectified at the same time they demonstrate a high level of awareness their sexuality is a source of great power.
In plain language, for many men, the cushion does not really register because they are distracted by their attraction to the posture, color and anatomical features of this female; metrics usually the exclusive domain of white women.
Yet here we all are focused on a black woman; talking about her, writing about her, LOOKING at her…
Is there a black woman in the house who will confess to secretly admiring the photo?
*bring the flames*
“I’d rather be looked over than over looked” — Mae West
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That sounds like rather roundabout reasoning.
It needs a trim by Occam’s razor.
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“metrics usually the domain of White women.”
What does this mean?
I don’t think Black women don’t want to be seen as sexy, but this piece is not sexy, to me. She is a chair, she does not look like she’s enjoying it, she’s on all fours carrying a table on her back. This is not sexy, this is degrading. There are plently of sexy Black pin ups, like, Bria Myles and Melyssa Ford. This piece does not present itself as a picture of a Black woman reaching the heights of pleasure through S&M or inducing visual pleasure in a partner. I can’t embrace that spin on it.
@eco
It’s always possible it’s a coincidence, but that would be a very big one and quite convenient, indeed.
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thwack
In order to confess to something it would have to be true. You are taking a big leap in believing it is based on the response by some women (most of which who don’t come off as angry about the photo). Frankly it is just simply ugly art. Need more be said or is this an elaborate attempt to bring about more discussion?
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Ebonymonroe
I agree. I have also run across art that better depicts black women as sexy anf strong. Not some dressed up sex toy(those things are always ugly btw).
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Ebonymonroe
“metrics usually the domain of White women.”
What does this mean?
———————————————————————————————-
Under the current dominant socio economic and political system, white women are the “sexual gold standard” by which the sexual attraction of all other women is measured.
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Why are more people offended that there is a black woman chair but not a white woman one? Its okay to degrade just white women but not black women?
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@ Curious
What are you talking about? The original was a White woman chair.
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@Curious
Why be offended? I don’t have to sit on it. Besides why must blacks always be told to fight their own battles and the battles of whites as well?
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@curious
I don’t agree with the Black or White woman chair. I’ve already mentioned that the White woman chair is sexist and objectification. I think the reason why people are focused on the Black woman chair and table is because it was only just released, and therefore, the topic of the post. I can’t say I wish to see Black or White women dehumanised.
@thewack
I see what you mean.
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This piece just doesn’t register as erotic to me. It doesn’t look or feel that way. The intention seems to be dehumanisation and objectification. I don’t pick up kink, true S&M, or any taboo s-xuality. So I can’t review it from that angle.
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Tacky as the chair is — and bloody horrible — there’s nothing “shocking” about it.
I doubt if black women (and black men, or many people of colour, for that matter) would be too shocked by seeing their bodies as festishized objects, as humiliated, dehumanized or hypersexualized body parts…
Sara Bjaartman (the so called Hottentot Venus) comes to mind.
Hot Asian Babe, or Big Black C0ck, other pornographic trope, for instance.
But whose gaze festishizes, ridicules and dehumanizes? Who is this art really supposed to shock? White men and white women, I feel. Dasha Zhuvoka is as complicit in that as say, Miley Cyrus and other white women who are “innocent” of their complicity…
I think the photo of Dasha Zhuvoka is a “successful” piece of art, though, in itself! When I see her sitting on the black woman chair, twiddling her painted toenails, with a vacant expression on her face, it captures so much oblviousness and complicity.
From an “Art” pov, it does show that as privileged and cocooned as Ms Zhuvoka is, she has more money than sense.
Her own trade is Art. But, as collectible and on-trend as the chair is, she is illiterate to its meaning. Her blank expression says much about the cluelessness of the nouveau-riche than anything else. 😀
This sculpture is a piece of provocation, recycled provocation.
London’s Tate Modern gallery featured the original chair in an exhibition that ended in the first week of January 2014. The white woman chair is not exactly how it looks in photos, because it’s apparent that the model is much more like a manufactured doll, a mannequin and a Barbie, rather than a real person. What’s more the way she is modelled is similar to the way a lot of advertisers show the female form, then and now. And, when you look closer, it’s like a lot of British S&M imagery from that time. Eric Stanton, used to some of the finest “bondage” art (http://www.ericstantonarchive.com/stantoons/stantoons-21).
I don’t like this black woman chair one bit, but it’s not the first time I saw something like this, in another context completely, Nzinga’s Chair. Nzinga was a queen of Angola, who, when refused a chair by the Portuguese during negotiations, commanded one of her servants to get down on all fours for her to sit upon.
http://www.blackhistoryheroes.com/2011/03/queen-ana-de-sousa-njinga-mbande-of.html
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A comment’s in moderation, but I wanted to add that the purple marks on the model’s face and body look like the usual places for make-up contouring. Bronzing and highlighting strokes are used to bring out features (cheekbones, shoulders, etc), rather than to show bruising or “damage” as such.
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In the piece, the Black woman’s bottom may be a little too flat and bony to be an accurate portrayal of the average Black woman’s body. Just a thought
.
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@ Drosera,
I couldn’t agree with you more. It’s almost like nowadays in order for someone to make their mark in the industry “whether it’s fashion, music, or TV “, one has to be incendiary to go viral/ seek fame. It’s a low brow attempt at popularity. The funny thing is it will fade just like Vanilla Ice did. Temporary (15 mins of infamy at the most.) Ha! 😀
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Ebony, perhaps when the body is in that position gravity makes the flesh fall away, and same when it is stretched out, then the curves appear flatter.
Visually it’s fore-shortened.
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Correction: in moderated comment, I meant to say Tate Britain, and not the Tate Modern.
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@ ebonymonroe
Lol so we went from what kind of message is the artist sending to, her butt isn’t accurate. rofl her butt kinda looks like mine, maybe they’ll make a larger butt in the next thing they make.
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I’m trying to figure out how they got this to look real because when I first saw it I was like wtf, is that a real woman and how the heck can she bend like that.
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The shenanigans of pale people aren’t surprising anymore, and the reason why I make a sweeping argument like that is because most pale people are “regular pale people”. Very few actually dress up in white robes and set crosses on fire (pale people seem to think that the only way to be racist is if you’re overtly racist, like a klansman) . The problem in the pale-skinned “society” is that most people simply do not care (indifference) or do not know (ignorance) the history of black people, therefore, they are completely unable to make sound decisions on how to portray black people (or any other “POC” for that matter) . This is why they seem to have no problem portraying a black woman like this, despite the fact that they’ve been objectified continually since they were taken captive & enslaved, they’ve been subject to all kinds of rape & other reprehensible sexual practices, medically experimented on (gynecology) and so forth. If pale/pink/white people had good knowledge of that, this chair wouldn’t have been made. Pure & simple.
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Naw, not in the down on all fours position. The fat tends to gather together in a hump or bubble, and if the back in arched, it tends to gather towards the lower back, creating a big bubble.
Heeey, if she had bright pink nipples, you’d be confused about that. I’m just saying . . .
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i think the face tatts include aborigineal?
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and you going to buy one of those things you might as well have a lawn jockey with a confederate flag, oh ok put a bottle of swedish vodka on its head, but its the same idea
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Some rich person with too much money and little common sense probably purchased one of these stupid things. And has it in their home. I suppose it make a good conversation piece.
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I went to another website and glanced at the comment section, some commenter think that it’s a real woman posing in the black woman chair. LOL!!!
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I will say one thing. The black woman chair looks more sturdy.
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I think there is a word that describes the behavior of a person who attacks something they secretly want to possess/be. I understand why white males sometimes engage in this behavior regarding black males, since we could litterally “fkc them off the planet” if not kept in check .
But with black females, Im not sure what Im witnessing? I’ll be on a discussion board with a bunch of white males and all of the sudden I’ll have to stop and ask them “what does Michelle Obama have to do with any of this?”
Its interesting.
It reminds me of black guys with white wives/girlfriends who spend all their time attacking, talking about black women. If black women are so unattractive, why are you always talking about them?
That may be the dynamic at work in this art peice; either the artist himself, or he may be tapping into the existing sub concious racial infrastructure?
I know it sounds weird, but its a real phenomenon; who here got beat up in school for having light skin and “good hair?”
In addition, degrading black females is a technique white males use to insure easy sexual access to them.
How?
By establishing, expanding and maintaining a sustained criticism of black female attractiveness, all a white male has to do is pretend he is the exception to the rule (NAWMALT) and the panties will drop. One of the experiments Ive done on white male “lets tear down black women” thread is to ask for a show of hands from those whom have actually slept with a black female? (that the did not pay)
They won’t answer in front of each other; at best one of them will respond with a trashy joke.
Regardless, its more data for my experiment which will lead to further refinement; which will eventually reveal the truth.
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Legion & Abagond,
Maybe so, but Bobby M is still extremely ignorant and showing it off for the world to see.
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Legion & Abagond,
Either way, he’s still detached from reality.
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Some people like that kind off stuff. It’s kink the ww and bw chair. It kind freaks me out and reminds me of bondage porn
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And either way still, and forgive me for being blunt, but Bobby M’s opinion matters less to me than that of a slug’s.
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The opinions of the typical white person are like cheap toys to me. I entertain them for a while, and move on when I get bored with them, unless they give me something new to play with and I’m bored enough to try it.
This whole chair fiasco and the phoney apologies that come from it are those cheap toys to focus on. We entertain the usual thought of why this happens and happens often. White people do something racist. They’re caught. They’re FORCED to apologize. And the story virtually ends until something else happens.
Racism is stagnant to where it’s almost predictable. The only thing that causes “surprise” (for lack of a better word) is what exactly happened. In fact, scratch the word ‘surprise’ altogether.
Something else will happen beyond the chair business because the system of racism will live on behind the scenes manufacturing more BS. The chair is only part of the issue. The real issue goes unseen in the public eye.
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mstoogood4yall said
“Lol so we went from what kind of message is the artist, her butt isn’t accurate. rofl her butt kinda looks like mine, maybe they’ll make a larger butt on the next thing they make.”
………………………
In part, I was jokingly responding and using a little sarcasm towards to Bobby M’s comment that it’s accurate of Black girls because he’s had one, and “that’s not how you use them.” Although it’s true that Black women/woc have wider spaced hip bones, and it’s generally a known thing that the average Black woman tends to have larger bottom. But the Black woman chair’s body is in some ways identical to the White woman chair’s. I said “average,” not “all,” as I know some Black women have flat, small bottoms. I don’t think you have to be neurotic about these things all the time, allowing yourself a laugh and a giggle every once in a while is healthy, so I take that approach. As I said in my post in moderation, if she had pink n¡ppl€$ we’d probably notice that.
Why did that comment offend you?
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^ no i’m not offended by the comment I knew u were joking , sorry that my comment came out that way.
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Oh no, don’t apologise. I just had to ask as I’m quite fond of you on the blog and don’t like the thought of offending you.
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@thewack
Hhmm, I don’t know if it’s true, I’ve thought about that before, but it’s an interesting theory non the less. I have always seen Black men who trash Black women (who usually trash Black men as well) as trying to be accepted by White people. And as far as White men trashing Black women, I always saw it as fear of Black people, since that’s often where hatred comes from, a sense that that thing is threatening . . . fear. Black men who hate Black women, tend to marry non Black women, and White men who hate Black women, tend to marry White or non Black women. I would have thought secret desire and hateful obsession would lead to the opposite, but it probably doesn’t. Which leads me to assume it’s obsessive hate, not hateful, obsessive desire.
But still, as I said, it’s an interesting theory.
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Ebonymonroe
And as far as White men trashing Black women, I always saw it as fear of Black people, since that’s often where hatred comes from,
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OK, but even if the racists murdered all the black females in the world, black males could still repopulate the planet with black people by sex with nonblack women, or even white women for that matter.
As Dr. Francis Cress Welsing is fond of pointing out, black females cannot impose sexual intercourse; so although you make get “a look” when the elevator doors open, you don’t get “the look”; the look black males get starting around the age of 12 years old.
Black females can function as a collective economic, labor and/or political threat, but not an individual one like a black male. The difference is key. The white supremacists count on their superior ability to “manage” any attempt by nonwhite people to organize, communicate and/or engage in a process of collectivization to opposed them.
They have proven able to do this.
But a single black male thinking and acting alone with no communication with any other black people, can act without warning to harm a racist, his property and even take his life.
This is what keeps the white supremacists up at night; look up MARK ESSEX.
The white supremacists have never produce an effective mechanism for detecting these types of black males. (the closest thing they have is to tell trashy and/or racist jokes and see what black person does not laugh) But they are trying. White people are producing PHD papers on rap music and monitoring black blogs in order to better understand how black people communicate with each other.
The problem is some black people communicate with things other than people?
Guess what white people call them?
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Given the timing, the obvious motive was sensationalism and controversy. Most artists and fashionistas are dopeheads and weirdos desperate for publicity. That’s why the so-called “artists” made their chairs. They never intended to sell them but the publicity will help them sell their other garbage. The chairs are creepy, in poor taste and the only person I can imagine having one is a little avant garde queen.
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We need higher grade of art. 🙂
I give you, Maya Penn:
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In the past it was science, now it’s art. White racists found another hideout for their insults. A convenient label that will make any kind of racial slur look innocent because it will help the author get rid of moral responsibility for her actions.
This work clearly shows that white women have issues with us and fear us. They see a lot of black women succeed which fills them with envy and fear of their position. So they need to convince themselves it’s not so by belittling us. And the fact that it happened in Russia, one of the most racist countries in Europe comes as a no surprise to me neither. I come from Eastern Europe and can only confirm it’s bad reputation when it comes to racism.
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“In addition, degrading black females is a technique white males use to insure easy sexual access to them.”
Trojan pam has said the same thing. I think it has some truth to it, as white males love to be the savior and “help” the poor darkies and not acknowledge his role in the cause of the chaos. And white males have a say in what’s in or not, but sometimes they still need the black seal of approval, so they get the sellouts to speak on behalf of black people and give them their blessing. Sadly some black males fall for it and will repeat the same things white males have said about black women and praise non black women that white males find attractive like Asian and white women. And some white males will either pose as black men and further attack black women or they act sympathetic.
Then some black women may feel “special” that a white guy wants them. It is like a Cinderella story, a woman from a lesser class gets with a guy from upper class, but instead of just class it’s race as well.
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“OK, but even if the racists murdered all the black females in the world, black males could still repopulate the planet with black people by sex with nonblack women, or even white women for that matter.”
Yes and whites could change the rules yet again and say the one drop rule is over with so those kids are not black but “tanned” white or biracial I see it already happening. They may look black but culturally they may not be, as the mother teaches a child about their traditions, language, history. And they could also do what they did to the aboriginals and take the biracial children and assimilate them into whiteness.
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mstoogood4yall
Yes and whites could change the rules yet again and say the one drop rule is over with so those kids are not black but “tanned” white or biracial
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Are you saying the white supremacists could expand the definition of “white person?”
OR
Increase the number of non white classifications?
Because if its the latter; well they’ve already done that globally.
The key is always “who are the white people?” because thats the catagory that never changes; nor requires any kind of prefix or suffix… no matter where you go in this world.
Meanwhile, We have been “black”, “Negro”, “colored”, “Ethiopian”, “Moor”, “African American”, “Hamitic” Cabblablasian…
But that white catagory stays the same? That should tell you something?
But, the question I have is how far the white supremacists can refine the racial classification system before it starts to confuse white people about who is a white person and who is not?
That may be the thread that unravels the entire coat?
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mstoogood4yall
And they could also do what they did to the aboriginals and take the biracial children and assimilate them into whiteness.
———————————————————————————————————
Thank you for pointing this out because its the reason why I am trying to find out who the white people here are; and ask them what the criteria they use to determine what a white person is?
mstoogood4yall, you are making a big assumption if you are a nonwhite person?
To clarify, Im asking them: “what is a white person to another white person?”
And guess what?
They ain’t answering ME.
Do you know what that means?
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MsTooGood wrote:
“They may look black but culturally they may not be, as the mother teaches a child about their traditions, language, history.”
_ _ _
True. it is the mother who — the majority of the the time, anyway — is the ‘culture bearer’ of the family.
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If you look too closely at race, it disappears, like most things that do not really</i? exist.
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idk they could expand the definition of a white person or who they accept as white or having enough whiteness. There are some people that could pass for white that they would allow into whiteness, I think to a lot of them anybody is white as long as they look it and don’t have their real ancestry come to light. who knows what they will do once their numbers go down. and they love to try to claim people that are of color and intelligent or do something important. There was a link about a black man from Ethiopia that was forced to classify as white and when he wanted to change it to black he got a lot of white people asking him why and shunning him.
http://www.prlog.org/11917259-black-man-classified-as-white-files-complaint-with-the-united-nations-against-the-us.html
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@ mstoogood4yall
Thank you for providing that link. I had read it before and was searching for it and for the life of me had trouble finding it.
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One drop rule or not I do not see mixed people as black. You need two black parents or at least show visible black ancestry to be considered black in my eyes. I have two sisters with a white mom and we share the same black dad- they identify as mixed and I see them as mixed. Many lighter skinned Hispanics go up to them speaking Spanish with my sisters smiling in embarrassment because they don’t understand
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I can’t see how black women would fall for such manipulation on the part of wm unless they had low self esteem and were desperate to have anyone to make themselves feel better
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@King: Maya Penn is amazing. We need to see more stories of young and gifted youngsters like her. Her parents must be so proud.
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@ King: Re: Maya Penn, I love you magnificent head of hair.
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TYPO: I Love Maya’s magnificent head of hair.
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Interesting question
What is White? and, What is Black?
I have always defined myself as Black, although I’m the prodect of an Indian Caribbean and Swedish Irish woman, and an Afro Caribbean man. But as “curious” pointed out, many Blacks do not view biracial individuals as Black, even though we usually come to see ourselves this way (if we look ethnic), as White society tends to define us as such. But I’ve also noticed when biracial people take the cue and choose not to define themselves as Black, they’re often criticised for trying to reject their Blackness to fit in.
Perhaps as time goes on and there becomes a greater populace of various, immediately mixed race individuals, both the White population and the Black population will become the greatest minorities due to the political nature of how they’re defined by both groups.
I would imagine we will become like Brazil in many ways, with the mixed race community being the most dominant, using caste systems to determine hierarchy. In terms of the explosion of a mixed race population that is becoming more and more a separate community onto itself due to these tricky definitions of Whiteness and Blackness, the UK has already begun heading in this direction.
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@ mary burrell
I know, right!!
But not as magnificent as what’s inside of her head, I’ll warrant.
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But you do realize there really aren’t’t any such hard and fast things as “Black” and “White” right?
When you say you need two Black parents, you’re still stuck with defining if the parent’s are “Black” enough to be considered truly Black parents and on and on it goes.
And I’m not sure if darker skin tone is really the best test.
I mean surely SOME lighter-skinned botha’s can pass for Black?
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Curious
One drop rule or not I do not see mixed people as black.
——————————————————————————————
But the critical question is do white people “see” them as white? because the bitter truth is its nothing more than a DECISION for a white person. We can look for all the metrics we want and white people can give us all kinds of metrics; but at the end of the day, they make it up as they go. Its like being in a union. If your dad is the shop foreman, you are in whether you know the practice or not.
But, there are rules you must follow in order to be a union member in “good standing”; rule #1 is you never argue in front of the coloreds about whether another person is white or not.
We don’t do that.
We can ARGUE about it later, but not now. Not in front of the coloreds.
Dr. Welsing calls it “a non existent phenomenon”
mstoogood4yall
There are some people that could pass for white that they would allow into whiteness, I think to a lot of them anybody is white as long as they look it and don’t have their real ancestry come to light.
—————————————————————————————————–
So why don’t they do it?
Why don’t the non white people who can pass for white go ahead and do it?
I have two suspicions why they don’t.
#1. if you are really light enough to pass for white you are probably spared the type of severe harm and abuse directed at darker color people. In addition, white SUPREMACISTS will often provide you with special benefits that white people don’t even get.
#2. This is the critical reason that prevents most nonwhite people who COULD pass for white from doing so.
You gotta FUNCTION as a white person in a system of racism white supremacy with full knowledge of the harm this system does to non white people; including your “kinfolk”
What if you were a Jew in a concentration camp and you had a chance to escape but you had to become a guard in the Waffen SS in order to do so?
Would you do it?
Yeah, you hate eating gruel, wearing filthy rags, and sleeping on a maggot covered mattress…
but if the only way you could get out was by becoming a guard and helping to run the gas chamber, COULD you do it?
If you would, don’t be ashamed, I ain’t mad at you because I can’t say I wouldn’t do it myself.
Its just proof of how evil this system is.
This is the dilema for the nonwhite person who can pass for white. Being a white person requires much more than walking around all pale and stiff like “The English Patient”; you gotta FUNCTION like one, you got responsibilities as a white person; you gotta be in it to win it.
You gotta walk away and never look back.
You guys are lucking Im brown because I think I’d make one hell of a white person.
Oh BTW– they made a movie demonstrating how you have to FUNCTION in order to “pass”; its called “Europa Europa”.
I highly recommend it.
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^^^
*(more and more),
Hats off to Maya!
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@ Ebony
Yeah, we need more like her.
http://www.blackgirlnerds.com/2013_05_01_archive.html#.UvB-8v1ix8s
BTW, I LOVE her sense of style!
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^^^
*And
(Excuse the OCD.)
@King
Yeah, no doubt. She’s coo.
Love her hair.
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OFF TOPIC: One Drop Rule.
Go here if you want to discuss if further:
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@ King: Maya has a brilliant and beautiful mind. Agreed.
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mary burrell, I think the crazy thing to me is that her fashion/design sense is so highly developed. I mean, most designers tend to create stuff that looks overdesigned and impractical. But her work looks really wearable while still looking original and quite attractive. And she actually sews them herself!
http://tedconfblog.files.wordpress.com/2014/01/mayapenn_scarves.jpg%3Fw%3D900
That’s really quite an accomplishment for a girl of only 12.
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@ King: Well that is her gift. I am told we all possess a gift or talent, Maya is fortunate she discovered her talent and gifts at an early age. I am sure she had nurturing parents to help bring her gifts to fruition. It a great story. Much future success to the young lady.
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Maya Penn — what a phenomenal, PRACTICAL talent. What a passionate thinker, who doesn’t accept outside limitations of what she can be and know.
There is little known about black women and WoC who are polymaths, but they have always existed. They are our mothers and grandmothers and great-grandmothers.
I love how hard-working Maya is (making design products is hard work).
But Maya also sees the way of business and its implications and impact — and all at such an early age. Many artist/designers don’t make much of a living from their artwork.
This reveals much about Maya Penn’s home environment, as Mary Burrell says.
As for Maya’s creations — it’s not not easy working with materials and processes, and mastering the outcomes…so much that looks effortlessly “artistic” is down to solid technique and endless trying and re-trying! Incredible, too, how she has brought in so many different strands to form an ethos.
Definitely a talent to watch.
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Maya Penn has a bright future ahead of her. Young business woman doing it right. Her hair is gorgeous. She sews that stuff by herself, wow , I can’t even sew I tried but failed lol. More parents need to teach their kids how to do things like sewing, gardening,carpentry, computers, etc.
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mary burrell, Bulanik, mstoogood4yall
Maya should really be an inspiration to young Black kids (especially girls) everywhere, and Maya’s parents (who stood up together and where acknowldeged at the end of the TED video) should be roundly lauded!
We have to start seeing this potential in our kids. My nephew is not an entrepreneur, but his parents read to him, took him to museums, concerts, and lectures from very young, He had piano lessons. He fell in love with astronomy and we all saved money to buy him astronomy books and telescopes. A few years ago when he graduated from Jr.High School he tested and was matriculated directly into university.
My point is, the belief that these kinds of talents are only rare outliers is based more upon our low expectations of what can be done than the reality of what can be done. Many, many, Black children would blossom similarly if they only became the *priority* in activism. Black girls need this. Black boys need this. And it’s more important than almost anything else that we can do.
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This.
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Just watched Maya’s TedTalk Video (oh the joys of working from home for a day!)
She is a very inspiring young woman. Just incredible that she’s operated a business since she was eight years old.
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Amen and well said King.
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thwack said:
I am a middle-aged white man. Questions like this are quite difficult for me – not because I am guarded or worried that I’m falling into a trap by answering, but because I’m really not sure I know the answer. As I walk around local towns with good mixes of people then I don’t think it really registers. On the other hand, if I were in a room full of white people and a black guy walked in I would notice and think “black guy”. Similarly, if I were in a room full of black people and a white guy walked in I would fleetingly think “white guy”.
I don’t think I consciously consider “determining” if someone is white.
I think mixed people register pretty much the same as how I described for black and white people above. As for how I perceive mixed black/white people, I think it depends. I really don’t do the categorising and sorting thing, but if I were asked to sort a group of mixed-race people into two rooms according to how back or white they seemed I don’t think it would be so much a visual thing, it would be more a culture/behaviour thing. The people who hung out with white people and listened to metal/country music and voted conservative would go in the white room. The people who hung out with black people, listened to soul/funk music and were less trusting of conservative politicians would go in the black room. I think people define themselves, thus saving me the job.
These examples are deliberately exaggerated with stereotype traits for the purpose of illustrating the principle. In the real world there are spectra and nuances.
There are some cases (within my own family for example) where mixed-race people seem to drift effortlessly around in a pool of friends and acquaintances, both black and white, absorbing and synthesising a mixture of input from both and seeming completely comfortable – while not being blind to the white dominated reality.
I agree. I think there are certain parallels with what I said to Ebonymonroe in the Open Thread:
** A general question: what is the preferred, polite term for people of mixed black/white parentage in the USA? In the UK most people seem to prefer “mixed-race”.
Thanks.
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@Legion:
I know. Horrible term.
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** A general question: what is the preferred, polite term for people of mixed black/white parentage in the USA? In the UK most people seem to prefer “mixed-race”.
Thanks.
——————————————————————————————————–
Are you asking me?
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Legion is in the UK, too???? Who would have thunk it? I remember that Legion, tis what they called in when I was a kid. But I won’t go into that since it’s off topic. @thwack, posed a question on one of your posts here in this thread over on “the one drop rule thread?”
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@thwack,
Sorry, thwack, by “general” I meant addressed to the room in general (including you if you’re in the US). I didn’t make myself clear.
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buddhuu
** A general question: what is the preferred, polite term for people of mixed black/white parentage in the USA? In the UK most people seem to prefer “mixed-race”.
Thanks.
————————————————————————————————-
I don’t know if there really is one because the unspoken question it raises is:
Mixed with:
“What?”
On the other hand, I know 2 Buddhists. One of them TOLD me they were a Buddhist, and the other I knew they were as soon as I met them.
I am NOT a Buddhist.
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^ Er… thanks for the response. (I think.)
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buddhuu
^ Er… thanks for the response. (I think.)
———————————————————————————————
What do you mean by “I think?”
Do you want to ask me a question?
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I mean that I am uncertain how to respond to what you wrote because I’m not sure I managed to decode or extract much from your comment. So, as a kind of default, I thank you for the courtesy of a response. The “I think” is shorthand for “unless you were being sarcastic/rude/mocking or otherwise unfriendly, in which case I would probably not thank you”.
Do I want to ask you a question? No, but thanks for asking.
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Are you a Buddhist?
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Buddhuu sounds like a Hindi word.
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@thwack:
No, I am not a Buddhist.
@Bulanik:
You are correct, Bulanik. “Buddhuu” is a Hindi/Urdu word meaning “fool”. It is usually transliterated with a single “u” at the end.
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http://www.reginahsrunway.com/2013/11/fashion-ethics-peggy-nolans-oprah-dress.html
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@Rayfield A. Waller: I remember seeing that tacky Oprah dress. (rolls eyes).
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@mary burrell
It’s a very widely prevalent cultural fetish now: White Supremacist politics is very public in law, public policy, and overt restrictions against the ‘other’–segregation being the most overt expression; but White Supremacist culture has always been subtle, insinuating, and silent. Now, however, the racist and sexist culture no longer skulks about and hints at itself–it is overt, loud, and grinning taunting. Black my age still command fear and respect from racists, but I notice that young Blacks, who lack as much consciousness, education, financial independence, and experience with organized resistance to racism, are being attacked the most and are hurting the most from this sort of thing. It is beyond offensive; it is an attack on the very humanity of Black women, which of course can amount to only one intention–genocide. Attacking an ethnic group’s or a nation’s women means attacking the future existence of that group.
There are responses, there are theories, rational thinking, and knowledge honoring Black women as human beings rather than objects or toys, as the mass media and in-genuine profiteering punks masquerading as artists, rap stars, and musicians project Black women to be. In solidarity with you, Mary, short of guns and armed rebellion, language and knowledge are the best resistance to this outrage. At least until the time comes for the guns:
Womanism
“Womanist is to feminist as purple is to lavender” -Alice Walker
Womanism is a feminist term coined by Alice Walker. It is a reaction to the realization that “feminism” does not encompass the perspectives of Black women. It is a feminism that is “stronger in color”, nearly identical to “Black Feminism”. However, Womanism does not need to be prefaced by the word “Black”, the word automatically concerns black women. A Womanist is a woman who loves women and appreciates women’s culture and power as something that is incorporated into the world as a whole. Womanism addresses the racist and classist aspects of white feminism and actively opposes separatist ideologies. It includes the word “man”, recognizing that Black men are an integral part of Black women’s lives as their children, lovers, and family members. Womanism accounts for the ways in which black women support and empower black men, and serves as a tool for understanding the Black woman’s relationship to men as different from the white woman’s. It seeks to acknowledge and praise the sexual power of Black women while recognizing a history of sexual violence. This perspective is often used as a means for analyzing Black Women’s literature, as it marks the place where race, class, gender, and sexuality intersect. Womanism is unique because it does not necessarily imply any political position or value system other than the honoring of Black women’s strength and experiences. Because it recognizes that women are survivors in a world that is oppressive on multiple platforms, it seeks to celebrate the ways in which women negotiate these oppressions in their individual lives.
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@ Rayfield Waller: Words eloquently and fitly spoken, Thank you sir.
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Thanks, but more importantly, I try to teach womanist writers to my students–the next generation can be taught to respect Black women rather than mindlessly following the sexist influence of Hollywood and mass media advertising and entertainment industries.
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I think the artist is asking, “Would you sit in this chair?”
Most of us would say, “No.”
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ee orrr ee orrr wheres the black box, ay? ay? ay? where is it? wheres the nose bag for the darkie, ay?
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@callum peters
Where is your brain?
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