Magical Progress is my name for the American idea that everything just naturally gets better all the time without anyone trying too hard. Not just in science and technology but even morally, culturally, intellectually, politically – in every way!
How to tell if society is progressing:
- Only consider how well-to-do white people are doing, like the kind who appear on television or write for the New York Times. What goes on in your neighbourhood does not count, unless it is white and has a median income of at least twice the national average.
- Eurocentrism: Judge other cultures, countries and civilizations by the West. That way the West always seems to be best! And Westernization always counts as progress.
- Period thinking: Judge other periods of Western history by your own. That way the West always seems to be getting better!
- Science, technology and consumer goods: Count every advance, even if it leads to widespread destruction and suffering (genocide, slavery, colonialism, global warming, etc).
- Political rights and morals: Only count advances, never reverses. Freeing the slaves counts, enslaving them in the first place does not. Or: civil rights reforms count, but weakening those rights does not.
- Art and architecture: Any change counts as an advance.
- Religion: Decline in religion counts as an advance.
That means stuff like this does not count:
- The George Zimmerman verdict makes it feels like 1955.
- Gutting the Voting Rights Act by the Supreme Court makes it feel like 1965.
- Minimum wage adjusted for inflation makes it feel like 1978.
That means you do not have to concern yourself with:
- Voting and activism: because things are always getting better on their own! Cool!
- All Americans: because only well-to-do whites matter. So to keep up on the news you only have to read the New York Times.
- Other cultures, peoples or periods of history. So no need, say, to read and take seriously books written by people of other times, places or races.
- History. We are way better than the past! What could we possibly learn?
The progress is so magical that professors are left amazed, wondering what the secret to the West’s success is! Some white people, unironically, say it is their “values”.
In fact, though, Magical Progress is neither Magical nor Progress:
- The “magic” comes from the barrel of a gun. White Americans got rich by robbing Indians of their land and blacks of their labour. Britain robbed a fourth of the world.
- The “progress” is largely an ethnocentric illusion, one that takes in not just one’s own culture as the measure of all, but one’s period in history too.
For example:
- By the period thinking of most Americans in 1900, America in 2013 is falling apart due to lack of religion. It has shockingly high rates of crime, abortion, illegitimacy and broken homes. What good is a video game, say, if you have no father, if you are going to hell?
- Apocalyptic Regress: Whites have torn Black and Native Americans from their land, broken their families and destroyed their culture.
See also:
Excellent.
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In some ways it feels like 1890 when they started rolling back the FIRST Voting Rights Act in 1866 (with Grandfather Clauses, Poll Taxes and Literacy tests). 1965 was the SECOND one.
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And Spongebob so happens to be the perfect face to illustrate this post. LOL
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lmfao@ SPONGE BOB.
You know abagond, sometimes i catch myself, people watching and the majority of the time, its white people i watch and study.
I watch white people, watch black people and other people of color and try to figure out, what’s going through their minds. *_*
I notice they seem to be a very chipper race of people as they are always smiling, laughing and last but not least, they are always whistling. @ : o D ) >
I also study my own black people and other people of color and there’s a vast difference in the demeanor of blacks, than say, whites.
Blacks seems to never have a smile on their face, only seem to have a “serious look”. Quite to get aggravated and upset, than whites.
I typically only see black teenagers with smiles on their face and laughing and enjoying their youth, which is how it should be. @ : o l ) >
I believe every child should be happy in their youth, being you’re only young once and you can never go back again.
However, there is something else that creeps up, when i look at black children and teenagers. I feel a certain, sadness when thinking about what that child or teen will have to inevitable, experience as a black person. @ : o ( ) >
Black children and youth are shielded to some extent by their parents and don’t have much of a burden on them, so they live a care free existence in their youth, therefore the smiles and laugh’s.
Its only when they come of age, they seem the trials and tribulations of being black in America, this is when the smiles and the laughing, turns into a serious look in the face. @ > : o O ) >
what does this indicate, abagond?
Does it mean, that white people think, because blacks can eat anywhere whites eat or sit at the front of a bus and vote, that we have made, significant Magical progress?
Ignoring home ownership,employment, justice system, poverty,health,infant mortality, disparities in the process?
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^ yes he sure is. Bahhaha *in my spongebob laugh*
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Dear Abagond, since the voter suppression has started, basically when Obama won the first election and sped up after his second win, the conservatives have been in panic mode and have no doubt came to a conclusion that unless they start playing dirty they may never have the votes to win another presidential election again. With young people growing up Liberal more and more each year and the horrible and out of touch comments and beliefs they have only immoral dirty underhanded tricks can get them back in the White House. I immediately tried to think of a way we can take away this huge advantage they have given themselves regarding the voter ID policy in these areas. Every policy or change they have put effort into will only affect minorities and young people, all of who are Liberal. Yet they blatantly refuse to admit they are purposely targeting a political group or they are 100% racist, it is so clearly obvious I want those racist cowards to pay for this. My idea is a volunteer campaign that we should try to get moving quickly and goes like this; every district that has passed these laws we should ask those people who have some free time and transportation to make an effort to help at least one voter this election by driving them or carpooling with them when they go to vote. In addition if the person needs a lift to the DMV to get a ID they could include this as well to help out. If every Liberal voter agreed to help out one voter we can negate any effort they made to tip the scales. I know I would be willing to do it. In some cases if the volunteer wants they could take multiple people to and from the DMV to get a state ID or drivers license. On a large enough scale we could actually boost Liberal or Democrat turn out at the booth nationwide. As you probably already know Democrats outnumber Republicans and for the most part always have. The only reason why so many elections are close is because of voter turnout. Conservatives vote at a rate of 3 to 1 compared to Liberals. This is usually due to poverty, transportation, lack of ID and the most significant reason is a lack of trust. Most poor Liberals do not feel that anything they do will change anything about their situation. I really think we can make a big difference and make this thing backfire on them….What do you think?…Thanks.
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Ha! Not in my neighborhood! 🙂
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King:
Well, i should have said, “the majority” of black people and not blacks in general but i digress. ^_^
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omg its the human version of spongebob. http://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=happy+hands&view=detail&mid=BFA32A112375FA29A986BFA32A112375FA29A986&first=0&FORM=NVPFVR
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@ sondis
yes I see it too, I smile at people if they smile at me, but other than that no. The annoying thing is when white ppl tell u to smile, as if u not smiling makes them uncomfortable and oh a smiling negro is not as dangerous as a non smiling negro.
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mstoogood4yall:
Pfft! How they figga? I smile when i want to smile… @ : o D ) >
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“Blacks seems to never have a smile on their face, only seem to have a “serious look”
Sondis it is time you take a vacation to myrtle beach..about the week before school starts and see a big heck of a difference. It was party karaoke and laughter every day to night by the pool. Hispanics too. After a while whites (who were a little shy to do the dances and such) even started to join in. As I watched this from my ocean front balcony I thought (why can’t every day be like this the world over).
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Sharina:
See how you do me? you didn’t invite a brotha… -_-
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Non smiling black people scare white people.
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Mary Burrell:
None-smiling white people, scare black people, too. All those white men that killed people in mass shootings, like James Holmes and Adam Lanza, didn’t have smiles on their faces. -_-
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hey ms mary
yes non smiling blacks scare the sheit outta them. o my goodness that negro must be plotting something he/she didn’t smile at. I had an old white man tell me to smile, this happened a couple yrs ago, before I was awake, now if that happens I will look away and act like I didn’t hear the mofo
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sondis
they didn’t have smiles on their faces but some of them had a crazy smirk and crazy looking wide eyes.
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Revolution! Take over the cities…. Take over tv, music, fashion….. Create a language….force whites to move out of the cities so blacks can run the city government and make things better. Start your own business (FUBU)
Wait!
It’s already done… How’s that working for you?
Nope….you just cant do it on your own…. Take some of the blame? No! Blame someone else for everything.
Someone doesn’t agree with you….call them a racist. It’s all working so well. No wonder no one wants to talk to you about serious issues.
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No wonder why nobody here, will want talk to you about anything…goodbye troll!
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Only a person in denial or who is a completely racist would think that the white government of this country and it’s past citizens doesn’t believe that whites are responsible for 90% of the social and economical issues facing African Americans in this country, period!…and yes I am a smart mouthed white mofo…hotch63…and if you wanted real dialogue why did you start with racist insults…typical.
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@ Sharina: Myrtle Beach, sounds like heaven. Wish I was there.
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Abagond, honey, I got lost in the end when you pull your last argument, about how magic progress is not magical neither progress… I do agree with you ref the 2 statements, but then, the examples don’t follow through?
Are you advocating the necessity of religious morals?
Why bring videogames to the discussion? There’s a lot of prejudice and stereotyping on videogames, why keep adding? Most videogame players are not the stereotyped whitish young boys.
I personally blame religion and family for all discrimination: the thought that “my family is perfect, my blood is superior, the Other is evil”.
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@ sondis
I’m sorry. 😦
@ mary burrell
It was. Walking on the beach at night was amazing. I am already planning my trip for next year. LOL
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It is amazing FUBU is the only business these idiots (Hotch63) think blacks have. Sad yet comical at the same time.
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@ Hotch63
You are free to bring up these serious issues you claim need to be talked about, but like most that do once it is debunked they either hide in the shadows or try to change the subject.
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@Abagond:
Most of “Magical Progress” is clearly racist stupidity. With apologies if I offend any religious people here, I would, however agree with the school of thought that says that a decline in religion is an advance.
IMO, religion is one of the most manipulative, divisive and bigoted of human inventions. It is elitist and racist. Religion teaches that it is acceptable to treat “outsiders” with less tolerance/respect/compassion than one would show to members of one’s own faith/community. It teaches discrimination against gay people. It teaches that one should suffer in this life for reward in an afterlife – it also teaches that post-mortem reward should be a motivation for good deeds (rather than just doing good stuff for the sake of helping people).
Religion is a prime focus of the Conservative right,of the Westboro Baptist Church, of Islamic terrorists (who have been provoked by western arrogance). It *was* the motivation of the Christian crusades, of witch hunts.
Reigion is a tool of oppression by the rich and powerful. All anyone has to go on is what is preached to them *by human beings*, or passed down as written word, *written by human beings*. There is no evidence – no proof. Blind faith (and blind trust/blind loyalty) are tools of mainpulation.
We can love and care and help through simple empathy. We don’t need to be told that by a sky-pixie (or by those who try to control us in his name). I love people and try to be a good person – but not because of religion.
@Sondis.
Your first post on this thread is a perceptive and moving one, sir.
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Rick Marauderdad Buddhuu Cadger:
Thank you. ^_^
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@William Bentley
I am not sure this is totally true. Texas is realigning its political districts (or re-gerrymandering) to concentrate its own party and dilute Democrats and governor Rick Perry and Texas Attorney General Greg Abbott are completely unabashed about that. In fact, they are pushing that to claim that it is not racist.
http://www.dallasnews.com/news/washington/20130725-ag-eric-holder-justice-department-targeting-texas-redistricting-in-voting-rights-fight.ece
http://blogs.rollcall.com/goppers/republicans-to-eric-holder-dont-mess-with-texas-on-voting-rights/
http://www.economist.com/blogs/democracyinamerica/2013/08/texas-and-voting-rights-act
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“America in 2013 is falling apart due to lack of religion. It has shockingly high rates of crime, abortion, illegitimacy and broken homes. What good is a video game, say, if you have no father, if you are going to hell?”
Not sure if serious or ironic… If serious, Sweden must be a hell-hole of crime and such, what with our 80%+ non-religious population.
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[…] "Magical Progress is my name for the American idea that everything just naturally gets better all the time without anyone trying too hard. Not just in science and technology but even morally, culturally, intellectually, politically – in every way!" […]
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This post is so over the head of the average white person, the replies are sparse. I think Abagond stumped them with this one.
*how’s that misogyny thing going Abagond?
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@ ThatDeborahGirl
I got that book Peanut recommended, “Still Brave”. I should do some posts from it.
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@ Paula @ naishee
In the post I said:
I am not saying they are right, I am pointing out that how people see things is conditioned by the period of history they live in, that there is no independent, objective measure of progress.
The West used to judge the world based on religion. Now it does it based on technology. You know, whatever it thinks it is good at at the moment. That is not objective. That is like grading your own exam paper.
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Right, sorry. Was a bit unclear, or maybe my reading was unclear.
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@ Sondis
“Does it mean, that white people think, because blacks can eat anywhere whites eat or sit at the front of a bus and vote, that we have made, significant Magical progress? Ignoring home ownership,employment, justice system, poverty,health,infant mortality, disparities in the process?”
Many see Obama, Holder, Gov. Deval Patrick, etc. and deduce that blacks have made significant progress. African Americans do indeed have much better opportunities in positions of leadership, but the word, progress, only applies to the slowly increasing willingness of Euro Americans to accept them.
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Sharina said:
@ Hotch63
You are free to bring up these serious issues you claim need to be talked about, but like most that do once it is debunked they either hide in the shadows or try to change the subject.
xPraetorius:
Like me, Sharina?
Best,
— x
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resw77
@ Sondis
“Does it mean, that white people think, because blacks can eat anywhere whites eat or sit at the front of a bus and vote, that we have made, significant Magical progress? Ignoring home ownership,employment, justice system, poverty,health,infant mortality, disparities in the process?”
Many see Obama, Holder, Gov. Deval Patrick, etc. and deduce that blacks have made significant progress. African Americans do indeed have much better opportunities in positions of leadership, but the word, progress, only applies to the slowly increasing willingness of Euro Americans to accept them.
xPraetorius:
@resw77: your second paragraph, first line would be more accurate if you were to write it like this: “Many see significant progress like Obama, Holder, Gov. Deval Patrick, etc. and deduce that blacks have made significant progress.”
Your second line says nothing less than: “black people have made significant progress, but they haven’t made significant progress.”
That’s just dumb.
As regards the “acceptance of Euro Americans,” presumably, as a LARGE majority in this country, they could have prevented this progress? Do you guys even read what you write?
Best,
— x
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@xPraetorius
“Your second line says nothing less than: ‘black people have made significant progress, but they haven’t made significant progress.’”
Clearly you have a problem with reading comprehension and/or you just love arguing for the sake of arguing.
1. Nowhere did I mention that I believe blacks have made progress.
2. Thanks for proving my point that many Euro Americans erroneously equate “opportunities in positions of leadership” with “progress.” But such opportunities merely reflect the acceptance of African Americans by Euro Americans, i.e., their “ethnocentric illusion” that Abagond mentioned.
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ThatDeborahGirl
This post is so over the head of the average white person, the replies are sparse. I think Abagond stumped them with this one.
*how’s that misogyny thing going Abagond?
xPraetorius:
Yuh, TDG, WAAAAAYYY over their heads. Is that REALLY the only reason you can possibly come up with for sparse replies? And you question the intelligence of OTHERS?
@Abagond: another little thought game? Let’s catalog all the times where the participants in this discussion gratuitously insult, call names or do some other infraction. Are you with me?
• Above: TDG plainly says that the average white person is insufficiently intelligence to understand your post. Can we agree that her insinuation is that most white people are stupid?
• Further above Rick Marauderdad Buddhuu Cadger said: Most of “Magical Progress” is clearly racist stupidity. Presumably he’s talking about whites here. Since the tone of your entire post is “Whites=bad, non-whites=not bad.” I think it’s safe to say that RMBC is calling whites racists in general. He MIGHT admit to some exceptions, but his tone doesn’t indicate it.
• Further above, Paula said: “I personally blame religion and family for all discrimination: the thought that “my family is perfect, my blood is superior, the Other is evil”. ignoring for the moment the sheer nitwittery of the statement, I’m very much a believing Catholic Christian. Presumably Paul just called me a racist?
• Above RMBC said: “We can love and care and help through simple empathy. We don’t need to be told that by a sky-pixie (or by those who try to control us in his name). I love people and try to be a good person – but not because of religion.” RMBC called God a “sky-pixie,” thereby clearly belittling PoF (People of Faith 🙂 ) Is that ok?
• RMBC also said (He’s a rich vein for hate speech): “IMO, religion is one of the most manipulative, divisive and bigoted of human inventions. It is elitist and racist. Religion teaches that it is acceptable to treat “outsiders” with less tolerance/respect/compassion than one would show to members of one’s own faith/community. It teaches discrimination against gay people. It teaches that one should suffer in this life for reward in an afterlife – it also teaches that post-mortem reward should be a motivation for good deeds (rather than just doing good stuff for the sake of helping people). Again, ignoring the jaw-dropping stupidity of the post, presumably he just called me, and other Catholics: bigoted, divisive and racist, no?
• William Bentley said: “Only a person in denial or who is a completely racist would think that the white government of this country and it’s past citizens doesn’t believe that whites are responsible for 90% of the social and economical issues facing African Americans in this country, period!…and yes I am a smart mouthed white mofo…hotch63…and if you wanted real dialogue why did you start with racist insults…typical.” I differ with WB, so presumably he just called me a racist, no?
• WB also said further above, in referring to Conservatives: “…they are 100% racist, it is so clearly obvious I want those racist cowards to pay for this.” Presumably this constitutes calling Conservatives like me “racists,” no?
Let’s stick to the obvious references only. For example, above sondis says: “Does it mean, that white people think, because blacks can eat anywhere whites eat or sit at the front of a bus and vote, that we have made, significant Magical progress?” It seems to me that sondis hopes the, what he thinks is obvious, answer to the question will support an accusation of general racism on the part of whites. However, I recognize that is subjective, so am NOT including it in the catalog. Same with jefe’s answer pretending that the Voting Rights Act was “gutted.”
What do you think, Abagond? Want to play along? I wonder if your amen chorus will do it EVEN THOUGH I’VE CALLED THEM OUT. Wouldn’t surprise me, frankly.
One quick, fun question: Is “Magical Progress,” also “Progress?”
Best,
— x
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resw77 said:
@xPraetorius
“Your second line says nothing less than: ‘black people have made significant progress, but they haven’t made significant progress.’”
xPraetorius:
Yep. Because that’s what YOUR line said, unless, that is, you’re trying to make the point that the election of Obama, Patrick, et al, don’t represent progress. In that case, welcome to our side!
resw77:
Clearly you have a problem with reading comprehension and/or you just love arguing for the sake of arguing.
xPraetorius
Clearly not.
resw77:
1. Nowhere did I mention that I believe blacks have made progress.
xPraetorius:
Then, you’re not worth debating with.
resw77:
2. Thanks for proving my point that many Euro Americans erroneously equate “opportunities in positions of leadership” with “progress.” But such opportunities merely reflect the acceptance of African Americans by Euro Americans, i.e., their “ethnocentric illusion” that Abagond mentioned.
xPraetorius:
Hey, resw77: we DO equate “opportunities in positions of leadership” with progress. So do most rational observers.
You, however, are forced to defend the dubious proposition that “BEFORE blacks were in positions of leadership” is EQUAL or SUPERIOR to “AFTER blacks were in positions of leadership.” The only possible conclusion is that you would consider it either “progress” or “not a step backward” if blacks were removed from positions of leadership. I suspect yours will be a lonely voice.
@resw77, either you need to do some SERIOUS clarification, or, as I said above, there’s no point discussing anything with you.
Best,
— x
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sondis said:
Mary Burrell:
None-smiling white people, scare black people, too. All those white men that killed people in mass shootings, like James Holmes and Adam Lanza, didn’t have smiles on their faces. -_-
– * – – * – – * – – * – – * – – * – – * – – * – – * – – * – – * – – * –
xPraetorius:
Perfectly, incandescently, luminously irrelevant.
Best,
— x
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The thoughts in this post are what goes through my mind whenever my Korean-American (1st gen) professor tells me that “good ole fashioned Protestant work ethic” is what made the US so successful and that I should get in touch with my “Korean” roots by going to church.
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I don’t know how i forgot these none-smiling white people that scare black people:
Police officers, they NEVER smile at black people or other people of color. They only smile at white people.
They talk down to blacks and give attitude, even when a black person calls them about being victimized in a crime.
I had an incident with a police officer, a long time ago. I called the police, after i discovered my apartment was broken into.
The cop came, when he approached me, i reached out my hand to shake his and he totally ignored my attempt at being polite.
I never really trusted police as you could image how white cops are, towards black men and black people in general but the fact that i was a victim of a crime and not the perpetrator, yet he treated me like i was a criminal, made my dislike for police into hate for them, specially white police.
Black people never get smiles or gentle treatment by white police all across the country.
There is a deep contempt that comes across, whenever a black person, deals with law enforcement.
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@xPraetorius
“Yep. Because that’s what YOUR line said, unless, that is, you’re trying to make the point that the election of Obama, Patrick, et al, don’t represent progress. In that case, welcome to our side!”
My line means what it reads verbatim, not what you inaccurately construe it to mean.
“@resw77, either you need to do some SERIOUS clarification, or, as I said above, there’s no point discussing anything with you.”
I don’t need to do anything, and you’re right, there’s no point in you discussing anything with me. I’ve made my point clear, you’ve admittedly proved my point, and so there’s no need for further argument.
Clearly you didn’t read and/or comprehend Abagond’s blog post either.
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@ xPraetorius
You delete comments that call someone racist. I do not. Maybe if this was a blog about gardening I might do that, but not one on racism. That would be nuts.
My view of the R-word:
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@ Riverside Rob
I deleted your comment for using a racial slur.
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@ sondis
Yup.
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Mary Burrell:
None-smiling white people, scare black people, too. All those white men that killed people in mass shootings, like James Holmes and Adam Lanza, didn’t have smiles on their faces. -_-
Rob says
Did Colin Ferguson have a smile his face when he shot up the long island train? (Colin is a black, mass-shooting perpetrator).
Unknown, but the Baltimore residents that beat and robbed a white man on St. Patrick’s day this year all had big smiles on their faces. Even the women got their shots in with their shoes, while others tore of his pants and went through his pockets. Look at how happy this crowd is – lots of laughing smiling neighbors.
http://baltimore.cbslocal.com/2012/04/06/crowd-beats-strips-robs-tourist-on-st-patricks-day-incident-caught-on-camera/
(same post as before – checked for racial slurs – none found)
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@Riverside_Rob
“Why do you allow the illiterate, lazy, criminal portions of your population do the speaking for you? ”
It seems you are letting them do the talking for African Americans. First, most African Americans work hard just like Euro Americans. And some Euro Americans are lazy and get handouts too.
It’s also funny you only mentioned athletes as hardworking, but what about the intellectuals Charles Bolden, Neil Degrasse Tyson, African Americans have always worked hard and have achieved everything Euro Americans have achieved in this country, despite all the setbacks (Jim Crow, segregation, racism, etc.).
“Those cities are now in a downward spiral to ruin.”
You mean cities like Detroit, whose good manufacturing jobs that attracted working class Southern African Americans in the 50s and 60s were shipped overseas in the 80s and 90s?
Euro Americans are also affected by the decline in manufacturing jobs in America, such as the majority-white cities of Canton, OH, Kokomo, IN, Monroe, MI, Janesville, WI, Bend, Ore, etc.
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Resw77, I don’t see my original post anymore, but you help prove my point – progress and achievement go hand in hand – do they not? You’ve listed several blacks that have achieved what they could not have achieved in an apartheid society. Yet the tone of this thread is that there has been no black progress, no black achievement because of white dominance. Your list proves that is a lie.
You’re correct, there are a lot of white layabouts and criminals – we call those white trash. Working whites will not associate with them and are embarrassed of them if they’re part of the family. If they get arrested, we don’t protest. If they get mouthy with a cop and loose a few teeth, we don’t march. If they’re found dead of an overdose while sleeping in a jail cell, we get over it. We let trash be trash.
Good manufacturing jobs migrated out of Detroit into neighboring states where taxes and unions were not so debilitating to business. Honda manufactures in Ohio, Indiana, Georgia, Alabama, North and South Carolina. Toyota is in Alabama, Indiana, Kentucky, Mississippi, Texas and West Virginia. Detroit has been democrat since 1961. Black democrat since mid 1970’s. democrat policies killed Detroit, and they’re killing several other cities you mentioned too – even the majority white ones.
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TDG plainly says that the average white person is insufficiently intelligence to understand your post. Can we agree that her insinuation is that most white people are stupid?
*****
I know I shouldn’t respond to this…person…but…I know some other white folks are gonna be wondering the same thing so…
No, I don’t think most white people are stupid. But even the simplest and easiest of Abagond’s posts are misconstrued or elicit the most knee-jerk reactions from white people.
At length. In great numbers.
But yes, I think this particular post is a little beyond the ken of the knee-jerk reaction crowd. That would be a subset of white people, but does not include all white people.
If you had any reading comprehension or logic skills whatsoever, I would think you could have reasoned that out for yourself without it having to be explained.
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@xPraetorius
I don’t know whether to laugh or cry at the idea that you believe every comment I make has to deal with you.
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@Riverside_Rob
Your comment was deleted for using a slur, which I also noticed.
“Yet the tone of this thread is that there has been no black progress, no black achievement because of white dominance. Your list proves that is a lie.”
You seem to have missed the point of this thread, and I encourage you to reread Abagond’s post.
No, my comment does not prove progress. What you fail to realise is that African Americans achieved greatness in America even 200 years ago; e.g., Benjamin Banneker published accurate astronomical almanacs and Thomas Jennings filed a patent for a dry cleaning process in the 1790s, all despite being born into an era of slavery. You seem to erroneously believe that African Americans have only achieved things in recent years.
“…we call those white trash. Working whites will not associate with them and are embarrassed of them if they’re part of the family. If they get arrested, we don’t protest.”
Perhaps you act in that manner, but I have encountered many Euro Americans who protested when a certain George Zimmerman stood trial for killing a youth. I have met others who defended Elvis’ substance abuse, etc.
And, I take this to mean you think blacks associate with criminals and sluggards, who represent a small minority of African Americans and are not representative of the entire ethnicity. BTW, some African Americans (especially middle-class and wealthy) have an equally vile name for black criminals and sluggards.
“Good manufacturing jobs migrated out of Detroit into neighboring states where taxes and unions were not so debilitating to business.”
The point was that good manufacturing jobs exiting the city has led to the downfall. TOTAL US manufacturing jobs declined by 34% since 1960, affecting even Republican constituencies such as Hickory, NC…
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sondis said:
I don’t know how i forgot these none-smiling white people that scare black people:
Police officers, they NEVER smile at black people or other people of color. They only smile at white people.
xPraetorius:
Wow! Really, @sondis?!?! NEVER?!? Holy mackerel! Kind of a stretch, don’t you think? Bit of hyperbole?
sondis:
They talk down to blacks and give attitude, even when a black person calls them about being victimized in a crime.
xPraetorius:
Wow, @sondis! Have you been there for all encounters between black people and the police? Holy Mackerel! What OTHER super powers do you have?!? Oh, yes…reading minds.
sondis:
I had an incident with a police officer, a long time ago. I called the police, after i discovered my apartment was broken into.
The cop came, when he approached me, i reached out my hand to shake his and he totally ignored my attempt at being polite.
xPraetorius:
Sorry to hear this. However, of course you’d never try to do anything as silly as trying to extrapolate this personal anecdote over the entire country! Right?
sondis:
I never really trusted police as you could image how white cops are, towards black men and black people in general but the fact that i was a victim of a crime and not the perpetrator, yet he treated me like i was a criminal, made my dislike for police into hate for them, specially white police.
xPraetorius:
No, @sondis, I don’t try to imagine how white cops are. All white cops are different from all other white cops. Of course.
sondis:
Black people never get smiles or gentle treatment by white police all across the country.
xPraetorius:
Wow! Really, @sondis?!?! NEVER?!? Holy mackerel! Kind of a stretch, don’t you think? Bit of hyperbole?
sondis:
There is a deep contempt that comes across, whenever a black person, deals with law enforcement.
xPraetorius:
And, again, why on earth would YOU presume to speak for all law enforcement officers?!? A simple truth: All law enforcement officers are different from all other law enforcement officers.
Hey, sondis? Here’s another simple, obvious truth: all PEOPLE are different form all OTHER people. Ok. Try to work that into your thinking once in a while.
Best,
— x
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ThatDeborahGirl said:
TDG plainly says that the average white person is insufficiently intelligence to understand your post. Can we agree that her insinuation is that most white people are stupid?
*****
TDG:
I know I shouldn’t respond to this…person…but…I know some other white folks are gonna be wondering the same thing so…
xPraetorius:
Thanks for acknowledging my “personhood,” TDG, but I was not looking for conformation of that.
TDG:
No, I don’t think most white people are stupid. But even the simplest and easiest of Abagond’s posts are misconstrued or elicit the most knee-jerk reactions from white people.
xPraetorius:
Oh, I guess the “You’re a racist, scum-sucking idiot!” comments directed at me constitute well-thought out, reasoned, thoughtful posts. Just gauging perspectives.
TDG:
At length. In great numbers.
But yes, I think this particular post is a little beyond the ken of the knee-jerk reaction crowd. That would be a subset of white people, but does not include all white people.
xPraetorius:
You are correct about one thing. The incomprehensible and the nonsensical can’t be understood by the average white person. Or by anyone else for that matter.
TDG:
If you had any reading comprehension or logic skills whatsoever, I would think you could have reasoned that out for yourself without it having to be explained.
xPraetorius:
Great numbers, @TDG? Really? So far, apparently it’s only R_Rob and me. DJ shows up once in a while. I think there might have been someone else who didn’t spout the “you’re a racist idiot” nitwittery, so that makes: FOUR. Is FOUR a GREAT NUMBER? Seems pretty small to me. But, then your perspective wouldn’t be the ONLY REALLY strange one around here.
Best,
— x
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resw77 said:
@xPraetorius
“Yep. Because that’s what YOUR line said, unless, that is, you’re trying to make the point that the election of Obama, Patrick, et al, don’t represent progress. In that case, welcome to our side!”
My line means what it reads verbatim, not what you inaccurately construe it to mean.
“@resw77, either you need to do some SERIOUS clarification, or, as I said above, there’s no point discussing anything with you.”
I don’t need to do anything, and you’re right, there’s no point in you discussing anything with me. I’ve made my point clear, you’ve admittedly proved my point, and so there’s no need for further argument.
Clearly you didn’t read and/or comprehend Abagond’s blog post either.
– * – – * – – * – – * – – * – – * – – * – – * – – * – – * –
xPraetorius:
Nice mish mash of nothing meaningful. You are are STILL defending the premise that to remove black people from positions of leadership would produce a situation as good as or better than when blacks WEREN’T in positions of leadership.
Here’s your quote, buddy:
“Many see Obama, Holder, Gov. Deval Patrick, etc. and deduce that blacks have made significant progress. African Americans do indeed have much better opportunities in positions of leadership, but the word, progress, only applies to the slowly increasing willingness of Euro Americans to accept them.”
You plainly said that the word “progress” ONLY (your word) applies to Euro American willingness to accept them.
@resw77: Face it. You expressed yourself poorly and unclearly. Man up, admit it, clarify, and move on. Then we can all be friends (<– me teeing it up for someone to launch a snarkfest. Enjoy! 🙂 )
Best,
— x
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@xPraetorius
“You are are STILL defending the premise that to remove black people from positions of leadership would produce a situation as good as or better than when blacks WEREN’T in positions of leadership.”
I can’t help your poor comprehension skills, that’s just something you have to learn. But you’re absolutely right, I did not write in layman’s terms, and so I’ll do so just for you:
Just because whites have learned to accept blacks in positions of leadership in government (are you following so far?) does not mean blacks have magically progressed. The reason you think it’s progress is due to your “ethnocentric illusion.”
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resw77 said:
@xPraetorius
“You are are STILL defending the premise that to remove black people from positions of leadership would produce a situation as good as or better than when blacks WEREN’T in positions of leadership.”
I can’t help your poor comprehension skills, that’s just something you have to learn. But you’re absolutely right, I did not write in layman’s terms, and so I’ll do so just for you:
Just because whites have learned to accept blacks in positions of leadership in government (are you following so far?) does not mean blacks have magically progressed. The reason you think it’s progress is due to your “ethnocentric illusion.”
xPraetorius:
Ok, so let’s try this again. Yes, I think that the arrival of blacks in positions of power, wealth, fame and prestige is progress. Not because of any “ethnocentric illusions,” but because it’s progress. They didn’t magicallly progress; they progressed due to a very logical process set in motion many years ago. Furthermore, I have no more “ethnocentric illusions” than any other dude.
So, do YOU think the arrival of blacks in positions of power, fame, prestige and welath represents progress? If it’s not progress, then what WOULD you call it? Again, should blacks be REMOVED from their positions of power, wealth, prestige and fame? Were you rooting or McCain in 2008 and Romney in 2012?
Honestly, @res…you write the most muddled, murky, twisty-turny, obscure stuff this side of Dr. Llaila Afrika! 🙂 You HAVE to be another one of those who say that only you members of the super-double-secret club with the decoder ring, who know the secret handshake can see all the “covert racism” hidden all over the place, aren’t you?
Best,
— x
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You know what magical progress is? Waving a wand and making praetorius disappear. Kisses!
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Ooooohhh…how clever! Boy, I wish I could think of REALLY high-level, top-flight, head-of-the-class snarkiness like that!
Let’s just sit back and marvel at the sheer CLEVERNESS of that.
Congratulations, H…you still haven’t said anything of any substance in days! Keep up the good work. Did you not do well in school?
Best,
— x
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Guys/Gals, I won’t attempt to keep up with you on an intellectual level because I will just embarrass myself but I still think I have some interesting life experiences and opinions that can add to some of your discussions and maybe in the process my vocabulary will advance as I click back and forth between your large words and the dictionary site. My biggest attribute to this site and many of your discussions is that I am a 47 year old white man who grew up in the 70’s with a black step father for 7 years of my childhood. Afterwards my mom married another white man who moved us to a upper middle class area. After 7 years of being apart of a large blended black family and neighborhood I was not your typical white boy as I was thrust into a world that was quite different from what I was used to. Long hair, stoners, heavy metal, Led Zeppelin, surfing….these were all the cool things I knew nothing about. I grew up with Cool and the Gang, Earth Wind and Fire, swimming at the community pool in the smog laden L.A. air, playing tackle football with the neighborhood kids and basketball on the asphalt playgrounds…Family get together’s every weekend at someones house, calling my black cousins cuz’ and them calling me cuz’, making me feel accepted and no different than anyone else. As I tried to reinvent myself with surfer clothes and surfer shorts I ran into my best friend from L.A. at a local mall one day about a year after we moved. We spoke for a short time and exchanged phone numbers and when he left he looked at me and for the first time he called me a white surfer boy, you could tell he did not like what he saw…It hurt my feelings, it was the first time I felt different from him, if you hadn’t guess it yet he was black. As I grew up back in this mostly white world I was always the guy with a black friend or hung out with the black guys at work, etc…I felt more comfortable and felt like I could trust black people more than the white men I knew…In the 70’s my Mom and my step father got the nastiest looks from white men and women and on several occasions if my step father wasn’t there my mom and my brother and I were called horrible things, women telling my Mom she should be ashamed of herself, white men calling her a “N” lover, etc. They were lucky I was a child…As an adult in the work force is when I found out just how many white men, mostly men older than 40 at this time, were racist. If there were only us white men in the room the racist jokes would fly and it’s not the laughing that bothers you, it’s the look of pure enjoyment as they laugh at such vial material. You could see the pure evil and racism and hate in their eyes as they nod in agreement. Of course not every one of them was racist and you could tell the one or two guys just chuckling did not enjoy it too much. If politics came up with only white conservatives in the room the anger, hate and emotion would be so thick and heated I started becoming a racist myself…Not of blacks or any other minority, I started hating my own race. Of course the older I became and became more political I started meeting many white guys like me, they are called Liberals, maybe not with the same background but with the same compassion and understanding at what our government and white men have done to the people of color in this world and more importantly the United States…My experience living in a blended black family and city was one of the experiences I cherish about my life more than any other. God allowed me to experience another culture and showed me that we are the same but we are also different. However we are all different, no two white families are the same, no two black families are the same. I will tell you this though, in my experience black people for the most part did not seem to be racist as a whole and every single person I met as a white person in a black world welcomed me into their life. My experience in my white world is this, whites are far more racist than blacks and you never really know for sure until the subject some how comes up. I am proud of today’s youth because I do not see the racism in the young people of today for the most part. Of course if their parents are racist there is a good chance they might become one themselves. Every generation we get a bit further away but we are still a long way off…Peace out my friends…can I call you CUZ?
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@ xPraetorius…your post up above of copying and pasting one liners from our post hold no clout, they are not apt because they are taken completely out of context. My first comment you used to prove your point is not admissible as it was a response to hotch63 racist insults, so my response to a racist comment using words to describe those like her does not substantiate your argument and you lose this one!!!
My second comment you pointed out or circumvented also is not apt and cannot substantiate your opinion or argument. I was speaking of the GOP or politicians who are changing the voter district lines and making it difficult for students (mostly Liberal) and minorities or poor (mostly Liberal) to vote. To conclude that a political party who is changing voting rules to affect the opposite party in a negative way is doing it out of necessity and not for political gain would be completely illogical or for a less harmonious word, down right STUPID….so I was not speaking of the everyday conservative moron but instead the conservative corporate lap dog conglomerate that consumes all that is good and profits from human and environmental tragedy….is that better.
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William Bentley
For someone who loves blacks and hates whites you sure managed to find a majority white city with a tiny black population to live in. You’re obviously one of those liberals who loves diversity… from a distance.
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@ William Bentley
Interesting story! Thanks. And, right, turnout will be key.
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That comment makes no sense whatsoever. Do you think I chose this city based on it’s white or black population? Do you think that I am wealthy enough to choose where I can and cannot live? Are you? Do you really research the latest census so that you can move to an area that will make you look more or less like a racist? If I had to choose an area to live it would first be about how safe that area is. Secondly it would be about how close it is to my family and friends. But maybe I should be less like a human being and more like a shallow shell of a person who cares more about perception than content. Now that you have placed your foot in your mouth I will tell you why I live in Chino Hills. I am renting a room from my parents because I was divorced and had to sell my house. My parents just happen to live in Chino Hills, not far from where we grew up. And I never said I like blacks more than whites, I said they are much less racist than whites and in the same discussion wrote how I found that I learned that there were as many good whites as bad whites but then again I am one person that can actually speak from FACTUAL events and not some ignorant perception based on television and the newspapers and what my racist father taught me…99% of most people when it comes to race discussion can only guess at what actually happens in both cultures behind the stoic faces and closed doors, not me I do know what goes on in both cases and unfortunately for the whites that love to write in on this post, we just happen to be members of a race full of bigots and tyrants. Like I said it has gotten better but with the election of our current outstanding president we have learned that it may not be as good as we thought and there is still a long way to go…You take it easy Duh Joke!
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@ xPraetorius
ThatDeborahGirl is right: many of my posts go over the heads of white people. As if they have a Black Mental Age of 8 or something. Like you.
I used to think I was doing something wrong – until it hit me that black people understood me perfectly. I doubt that white people have less intelligence than blacks or have poor reading skills. I just think that they wilfully misread what I write. That way they can avoid my main argument. Like you.
They pick on stuff like “Not ALL whites are like that! Waah!” and “How dare you call white people racist!” and “You need to learn how to speak to white people nicely if you want to get anywhere,” – making themselves the centre of the universe, as always. Like you.
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That comment makes no sense whatsoever. Do you think I chose this city based on it’s white or black population? [You didn’t choose Oakland.] Do you think that I am wealthy enough to choose where I can and cannot live? [No. But Oakland is cheap] Are you?[Yes] Do you really research the latest census so that you can move to an area that will make you look more or less like a racist? [Yes] If I had to choose an area to live it would first be about how safe that area is. [Black areas aren’t safe.] Secondly it would be about how close it is to my family and friends.[Your parents chose the area because they’re racist?] But maybe I should be less like a human being and more like a shallow shell of a person who cares more about perception than content. [I think you already do] Now that you have placed your foot in your mouth I will tell you why I live in Chino Hills. I am renting a room from my parents because I was divorced and had to sell my house. [Was she black?] My parents just happen to live in Chino Hills, not far from where we grew up. [Just “happen” to? It must have been an accident.] And I never said I like blacks more than whites, I said they are much less racist than whites [You said you “hate your own race”] and in the same discussion wrote how I found that I learned that there were as many good whites as bad whites but then again I am one person that can actually speak from FACTUAL events and not some ignorant perception based on television and the newspapers and what my racist father taught me…99% of most people when it comes to race discussion can only guess at what actually happens in both cultures behind the stoic faces and closed doors, not me [You’re not special] I do know what goes on in both cases [I do, too, and it’s not what you said] and unfortunately for the whites that love to write in on this post, we just happen to be members of a race full of bigots and tyrants. [Blacks on this blog make veiled allusions to genocide] Like I said it has gotten better but with the election of our current outstanding president [Who spent 20 years in a racist church] we have learned that it may not be as good as we thought and there is still a long way to go…You take it easy Duh Joke! [If I can get it easy then I’ll take it twice.]
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Deleted personal attack on William Bentley by Da Jokah and the back-and-forth that came from that.
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How convenient.
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@ Da Jokah
Your comments had absolutely nothing to do with the post. You hectored someone who shared his personal experience. You are a bully. It was leading to a downward, off-topic tit-for-tat spiral.
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My first comment was reasonable. He responded with a personal attack on me. The last response from each of us was off topic but deleting my first response was going too far. You deleted it because it yanked the rug out from under his ‘Uncle Tim’ garbage.
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@ Da Jokah
Fine. I undeleted the exchange. People can judge for themselves. Any further sniping, though, will be deleted as being way off topic.
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You should have left that sh’t hidden, Abagond…
nothing but self-flagellating BS from a race realist who thinks he’s witty.
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better word be “self-gratifying” —
either way, your race realists have been very busy getting their rocks off on your tit-for-tat exchanges.
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Any further sniping, though, will be deleted as being way off topic.
Does that include Linda’s?
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@ Da Jokah
If you are going to act like a shithead, expect others to call you on your shit.
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Oh, my! There’s no need for that. 🙂
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I don’t have a lot of time right now but thank you all who stood up and defended me and my post against the evil of tyranny and race bating. I have to say it did make me feel really good and that I can say and talk about just about anything on this site and not only get an honest answer but be protected by the very kind of people that I align myself with politically and socially (and before you say anything Joke I have no idea what the color of any of your skin is so my comments are meant on a human level and not a pretentious level). This is what I see as the biggest difference between Dems and Reps…If a white Liberal would have read my post instead of being offended they would likely tell me how sorry they were that my family had to go through such hateful verbal assaults. They would identify the positive in my post as well as the negative and they would also know that the color of ones skin does not determine whether they will become a criminal or the president of the United States of America but is predicated on his/her social and economical status and ones character and the content of his character. All poor areas have higher crime than rich areas…FACT. All poor areas have a lower graduation rate…FACT. All poor areas have more drug activity…FACT. All poor areas have a higher fatherless rate…FACT. More violence, rape, child abuse, etc….The cold hard facts are that poverty breeds these issues and the only reason African Americans are included so much in crime statistics is because whether it was 400 yrs ago or this present day…African Americans are the poorest among us…and this has all been due to a systematic control and oppression dealt by our conservative government and/or corporations over the years…Voter suppression, low wages, denial of Liberty until just 40 yrs ago, lack of social programs, subliminal segregation through redistricting, and so on…If you really think about it things only changed 40 years ago. I’m 47, real Liberty for blacks is only 40 yrs old…do you think that after a century or more of being slaves and the lowest common denominator, that any group of people or race who has had these events and centuries imprinted on their DNA can overcome all the emotion and pain they accrued in just 40 years…That is upsurd! …and a Da Joke did you really call my Mom a racist…she dated black and Hispanic men after my Dad, her two nephews are half black, her last and current husband is Italian. By the way my Ex was Japanese….and if you want to know I personally am not attracted to white women but I don’t exclude them as someone I would or would not date. If I find myself attracted to someone I will proceed whether they are white, black, polka dot or redneck…hell if i all of a sudden found men attracted i suppose i would go for it…Gotta go guys, again thank you all for your support and i am so glad i found your site!
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‘we were bored and didn’t have anything to do, so we decided to kill somebody.'”
yo jamie foxxxxxx
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-23771858
how black is that!!!!!!
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All poor areas have higher crime than rich areas…FACT. All poor areas have a lower graduation rate…FACT. All poor areas have more drug activity…FACT. All poor areas have a higher fatherless rate…FACT. More violence, rape, child abuse, etc….The cold hard facts are that poverty breeds these issues
Poverty doesn’t cause crime. Low intelligence causes both…FACT.
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How do you explain the criminal masterminds from rich families who have managed to steal billions?
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If you review my comment Joker one of the points I made was that poverty breeds low graduation rates. Without going into specifics, unless you need me to, low graduation rates equates to people who may have lower IQ’s and are not adept at dealing with social and financial issues as would a person who was provided with all life’s necessities. Poverty is a domino affect that touches every facet of life…and desperation changes people and in order to grow mentally and physically you need to have the basic necessities of life, otherwise you may be an 18 year old with the maturity level of an 6 year old and your ability to decipher right from wrong would be entirely more difficult…Peace out!
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I call that greed…but most these people did not, out of necessity, go out and commit crimes on and off their entire lives. They are more than likely sociopaths who have a need to have more than they already have or they have some other dysfunction that leads them down an immoral road…crime is crime and I don’t condone it but I surely can understand it, depending on where it comes from, unless it accompanies violence, i have no sympathy for people who hurt other people…period.
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@ William Bentley
“I have no sympathy for people who hurt other people…period.”—You and me both.
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abagond said:
@ xPraetorius
ThatDeborahGirl is right: many of my posts go over the heads of white people. As if they have a Black Mental Age of 8 or something. Like you.
I used to think I was doing something wrong – until it hit me that black people understood me perfectly. I doubt that white people have less intelligence than blacks or have poor reading skills. I just think that they wilfully misread what I write. That way they can avoid my main argument. Like you.
They pick on stuff like “Not ALL whites are like that! Waah!” and “How dare you call white people racist!” and “You need to learn how to speak to white people nicely if you want to get anywhere,” – making themselves the centre of the universe, as always. Like you.
xPraetorius:
Ooooorrrr… you COULD try writing less incoherently, and with a bit less woe-is-me, paranoid, race-obsessed, wacked-out, pompous gibberish. Then everyone could understand you.
Just a thought. 🙂
Best,
— x
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@xPraetorius
“Not because of any “ethnocentric illusions,” but because it’s progress. ”
Oh, that’s a good reason. Bravo. You must’ve spent the entire day coming up with that one.
I know this is news to you, but African Americans have always achieved greatness in America. If you knew anything about American history then you would know that. The only difference between then and now, however, is Euro Americans’ willingness to accept them in their society.
“@res…you write the most muddled, murky, twisty-turny, obscure stuff this side of Dr. Llaila Afrika”
Again, I know I don’t write at your third-grade level, but if ever you’re in need of assistance with your reading comprehension skills, then I’m here for you.
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resw77 said:
xPraetorius:
Nope. They pretty much come to me on the spur of the moment.
resw77 said:
xPraetorius:
How on earth could you possibly know what’s news to me? You do say some dumb things! In fact, if you couldn’t say something dumb and meaningless, you wouldn’t have anything to say at all!
resw77 said:
xPraetorius:
Well, good for you! You finally got something right! You don’t write at my third-grade level! Heck, you can’t even seem, to make it up to my first-grade level! Instead of sending up your usual nonsensical flapdoodle, I really wish you’d write at my current mature adult level, so I wouldn’t need your valuable “assistance with my comprehension skills.”
Best,
— x
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@xPraetorius
“Heck, you can’t even seem, to make it up to my first-grade level! ”
I stand corrected. You read at a first-grade level.
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@ Da Jokah
Hello! How are you doing today? 🙂
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So, slappy the stalker is back???
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Herrneith
How do you explain the criminal masterminds from rich families who have managed to steal billions?
How do people who blame crime on poverty explain “criminal masterminds from rich families who have managed to steal billions?” Bentley would say the poor steal out of necessity but the rich steal out of greed. He might have a point if people were stealing bread instead of cell phones. But with food stamps and welfare there aren’t that many hungry people. No. People don’t steal because they’re hungry and desperate. They steal because they want something someone else has.
You could say rich people are less likely to steal because they can afford to buy whatever they want and poor people can’t. There may even be some truth to that. However, there actually are a few smart people who are poor due to unfortunate circumstances. And the crime rate for smart poor people is much lower than for dumb poor people. So, no, poverty, isn’t the main cause of crime. Low intelligence causes both.
But there are two kinds of crime — violence and theft. Violent crime is rarely committed by those with IQ above 90. Theft is less exclusive to people with low IQ but it’s still primarily a low IQ activity. Even white collar crime which you allude to with your reference to is more often committed by those with low IQ. I’m sure you could scrounge up a few names — Madoff is a notable example though he stole millions rather than billions — but you’d have to go back decades to find even a handful.
In fact, billionaires are more likely to give it away than to steal. The two richest men in the world (Bill Gates and Warren Buffet) have given away nearly 100 billion between the two of them. Forbes lists 1,342 American billionaires in 2013. Which of them has “stolen billions”? You’d be hard pressed to find more than a handful who’ve ever been in any kind of legal trouble. Even then, it’s more likely to be a lawsuit than criminal.
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Your unsubstantiated claims hold a lot of truth but my point is that all of these human conditions are caused by poverty and the oppression of being poor does to people, every single study will show you that poverty is the catalyst for all of the dysfunctional conditions that affect man and wealth is the catalyst for all of the good things that affect man. It is a no brainer…Yes rich men give away a lot of money and i don’t want to take anything away from those great gestures of kindness but it’s easy to give away 100 flat screen TV’s when you own 100,000 of them and the government is going to take them if you don’t give them away anyway…but my man B.G. is the exception to the wealth rule, he is one of the good guys from what I know about him…I of course cannot be certain but he sure does act differently than most….
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Da Jokah – if you’re trying to make the point that rich people rarely commit petty crime, you’d be very wrong. I’ve seen white women in Walmart get away with, “Oh, I just left that on the bottom of my cart by mistake,” when you know good and well they were trying to get out without paying.
And that’s poor or middle class white women. Let alone rich people who have every little thing they do excused.
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That
You’re conflating white with rich. Rich people don’t shoplift from Walmart. Rich people don’t even go to Walmart.
I doubt rich people are let off for being rich. People love to stick it to the rich. People suck up when things are good. At the first sign of trouble everyone turns on them like a pack of wild dogs.
”
Mr Bentley
Your unsubstantiated claims hold a lot of truth…
Consider them substantiated.
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0160289610001340
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0160289613000524
but my point is that all of these human conditions are caused by poverty…
Your point is incorrect. See the previous links.
and the oppression of being poor does to people,
You see wealth as the default and assume that if someone lacks wealth then they must have been deprived of it. It’s the opposite. Poverty is the default and if someone has wealth it’s because they have created value. No one is being oppressed. Some people simply lack the ability to create value.
every single study will show you that poverty is the catalyst for all of the dysfunctional conditions that affect man and wealth is the catalyst for all of the good things that affect man. It is a no brainer…
Poverty isn’t the catalyst for all the dysfunctional conditions. Poverty is merely another dysfunctional condition resulting from low intelligence.
Studies have shown that liberals (which you claim to be) see any unequal distribution of wealth as “unfair” regardless of whether that wealth was obtained unfairly or not. Of course, poor people do, too, regardless f their politics. Your insistence that the poor are poor because they’re “oppressed” is a psychological bias.
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No, I’m not conflating ‘white’ with ‘rich’. I’m equating ‘white’ and ‘rich’ with almost, but not quite equal measures of privilege.
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“I doubt rich people are let off for being rich. People love to stick it to the rich. People suck up when things are good. At the first sign of trouble everyone turns on them like a pack of wild dogs.”
– – –
Really?! And here I had been thinking that at the first sign of trouble, it was Blacks that everyone else turned on like a pack of wild dogs.
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:People suck up [to the wealthy] when things are good.”
– – –
Unless you yourself are wealthy, then sucking up is exactly what you’re doing….
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@Fiamma
Hey! Where have you been hiding?
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LOL, Sharina! Not hiding; just taking in the show! 😉
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LOL! Well be all amazed. 🙂
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Really?! And here I had been thinking that at the first sign of trouble, it was Blacks that everyone else turned on like a pack of wild dogs.
WSHH is full of videos showing who acts like a pack of wild dogs.
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Abstract
Poverty and crime are two maladies that plague metropolitan areas.
The economic theory of crime (Becker, 1968) demonstrates a direct
correlation between poverty and crime. The model seeks to examine
the dynamics of the poverty-crime system through stability analysis
of a system of ODEs in order to identify cost-effective strategies to
combat crime in metropolises.
1 Introduction
There is a direct correlation between poverty and criminality (Kelly, 2000;
Block and Heineke, 1975). Becker’s economic theory of crime (1968) assumes
that people resort to crime only if the costs of committing the crime are
lower than the benefits gained. Those living in poverty, therefore, have a
much greater chance of committing property crime (Kelly, 2000, Chiu and
Madden, 1998) than the general population.
Consider your comments now unsubstantiated AGAIN….
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If I had more time I would debate you further but unlike you I actually work for a living and stimulate the economy and I PROUDLY pay my taxes, whatever amount my very black and very proud noble peace prize winning president asks of me I shall pay…Good night!
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There is a direct correlation between poverty and criminality (Kelly, 2000;
Block and Heineke, 1975)
Correlation does not imply causation.
Consider your comments now unsubstantiated AGAIN….
If you’d examined the studies I linked then you’d have seen…
Specifically, previous research (..) has not always ruled out the effects of potential confounds. The current study is designed to overcome the most serious of these limitations and offer new evidence of the link between IQ and criminal involvement. Analysis of data drawn from the National Longitudinal Study of Adolescent Health (Add Health) provides strong evidence indicating that IQ and crime are linked even after addressing various shortcomings of previous research.</blockquote
Substantiated.
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The claim that poverty is caused by the stupidity of the poor has an international equivalent: some people look at the fact that most wealthy countries in the world are mainly populated by white people, combine this fact with the claim that non-Western countries have lower average IQ, and conclude that they have found the reason why poor countries are poor.
This is of course a nasty piece of victim blaming on a global scale. It’s also borderline racist. Moreover, if successful, this view will make poverty reduction impossible, given the genetic determinism that is often paired with IQ analysis. If kids get their IQ from their parents, if IQ determines wealth, and if nothing else causes poverty, then why bother doing anything at all?
For example, a book by Richard Lynn and Tatu Vanhanen titled “IQ and the Wealth of Nations” suggests that the average IQ in Africa is around 70, much lower than in East Asia or the West. They also claim that lower average IQ scores are the cause of low levels of development, income, literacy, life expectancy etc.
There are many problems with this theory. First, most of their data are made up. IQ score aren’t available for many countries. At best, the scores are extrapolated on the basis of tiny samples. Second, the theory confuses cause and effect. It’s poverty that drives down IQ rates. The Flynn effect suggests that factors such as improved nutrition, health care and schooling improve IQ test performance. IQ determinism is simply wrong.
Even if the data could tell us that poor countries have indeed relatively low average IQ rates, that’s no reason to assume that low IQ causes poverty. Causation may go the other way, and it’s also possible that there’s something else, a third element that causes both poverty and low IQ, for example the experience of colonialism. The colonizers were no more interested in creating education institutions than in fostering sustainable, non-extractive economies. Don’t forget about the omitted variable bias. However, now we’re assuming that the data can tell us about IQ, and they currently can’t. Bad-a-boom Bad-a-bing…..!
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just because someone’s atheist doesn’t mean they’re a menace to society. I know someone who goes to church every sunday but still got a girl knocked up.
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Mr Bentley
his is of course a nasty piece of victim blaming on a global scale. It’s also borderline racist. Moreover, if successful, this view will make poverty reduction impossible, given the genetic determinism that is often paired with IQ analysis. If kids get their IQ from their parents, if IQ determines wealth, and if nothing else causes poverty, then why bother doing anything at all?
Children inherit certain physical characteristics from their parents. No one doubts certain diseases have a genetic basis and run in families. Although nutrition can affect height, no one doubts a child’s height is strongly influenced by the genes they inherit from their parents. Yet for some reason you think genetics doesn’t apply to brain chemistry.
When I look at the evidence, I’m not asking myself whether something is “racist”. I ask myself whether something is true. There are plenty of things I don’t like. But if evidence supports a conclusion then I accept it whether I like it or not. Do you know why? Because denying reality doesn’t change reality.
Your comment didn’t question the evidence. You made it very clear you question the consequences of the conclusion. It’s obvious from your comment you deny reality because it leads to certain conclusions you don’t like. As I said earlier, you have a psychological bias.
As for “nasty piece of victim blaming” you would blame the wealthy man whose robbed by the poor man. And you would justify it by saying the only reason the wealthy man is wealthy and the poor man poor is due to “oppression”. You see inequality of wealth as unfair whether or not the wealth was obtained unfairly or not. That’s your psychological bias. The real victims are the ones you falsely accuse of oppressing others. What are the wealthy to do — sit on their $sses and stop trying because you think their success is “unfair”?
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^^^This.
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xPreatorious
Since you’re willing to pay, as you say, any amount why not all of yoru money, so that others plainly less wealthy can pay less?
If he were willing to “pay any amount” then he would be doing it already. He doesn’t want to pay any amount. He wants others to pay any amount and he wants the government force others to do it. But wait, it gets even better — he wants the self-righteous satisfaction that comes from giving to charity without actually giving to charity. I’ll doubt he even gives 10% of his income to charity.
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Da Jokah said:
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It doesn’t seem to be an uncommon thought that poor people are poor because they are dumb.
The thing is, though, a lot of the people who I’ve heard espousing this particular philosophy are themselves typically derived from European peasant stock (which is often conveniently forgotten, of course, until an occasion to trot out the ol’ boot-strap myth rolls around).
I suppose the IQs of their unwashed, lice-infested, illiterate and bedraggled Euro ancestors increased exponentially simply by virtue of their reaching the shores of America in one raggedy, garbage-toting piece….
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“Fiamma,
I suppose the IQs of their unwashed, lice-infested, illiterate and bedraggled Euro ancestors increased exponentially simply by virtue of their reaching the shores of America in one raggedy, garbage-toting piece”
Linda says,
The original IQ test was created by Alfred Binet (French), who was afraid that his tests would be misused for nepharious reasons, and poor Alfred, he must have been psychic because once the Americans got a hold of it, it took on a whole new meaning.
In the USA, IQ tests are were Funded and Promoted by white Eugenicists, who used these tests to promote their racist theories, while trying to look intelligent as they spewed their racist filth (just like Abagonds new resident alien “race realist” — getting time to start revoking some green cards, Abagond)
http://suite101.com/article/terman-goddard–yerkes–legitimization-of-eugenics-through-iq-a389417
I could care less about the significance of IQ test because (1) I don’t care what some white racist f’ck wants to tell me about black and brown people, and
(2) IQ tests mean Nothing the end of the day if a country can’t get and keep it’s act together … as long as dumba’ses like George Bush can become president and the majority of the people running big corporations get their jobs through nepotism and cronyism, then as far as I’m concerned,
the only real use IQ tests have in the real world, is to wipe your butt with
right now there are a lot of “basic” people running the government who are determining the fate of the majority in this country — even the fate of those “high IQ” achieving individuals who don’t control squat but the car they drive and the house they live in….
… these race realists can take their IQ test and their invalid racial truths and go kick rocks…because when the USA starts sinking, they’re going down with everyone else on the ship.
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Please note:
1. xPraetorius is OFF TOPIC here. There is already a thread about him:
2. I will delete any comments that contain personal remarks. Comment on comments, not commenters.
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Pardon me for jumping in…
abagond: The stuff you say I have heard a zillion times before. I have written posts about much of what you have said
Writing a post about others’ views doesn’t invalidate their views. Invalidation requires logic and reason and that’s not your strong point. It may be good enough when you’re preaching to the choir. But don’t expect many others to buy it.
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I deleted a bunch of off-topic posts on this thread that were about xPraetorius. There is already a thread for that:
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Abagond,
I thought that with magical process, being the way it is through wishful and positive thinking, religion, or rather Christian faith, would increase. If everyone sees that everything is naturally getting better according to Western White values, wouldn’t that also mean that believing in God, not counting on whether how they believe in Him, should also count? I’m just wondering.
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@ Brothawolf
I put “decline in religion” as progress because that is the way it has been going for at least a hundred years. So, since the West is always getting better, that must mean it is a good thing!
There is no objective measure of progress – everything is relative to the present, which is assumed to be better than the past.
For example, if Hitler had won the war, then the Holocaust would be seen as part of the progress of mankind – much as White Americans see their own genocide of American Indians not as a howling crime but as “the price of progress”.
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I still wonder if everything is getting better why are there so many food advisories. I don’t see it getting better I just see the problems diverting to other things. I must have forgotten my Wonder Tube goggles.
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abagond said:
xPraetorius:
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melody said:
xPraetorius:
Well, that proves ummm…Oh, yes: precisely nothing.
Best,
— x
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Really quickly let me ask you how you equate , “My big beautiful black president” with he is only the president for blacks, after all i am white and my comments were in jest and directed toward Jokah…If you can not decipher sarcasm from debatable content then you are playing with the wrong group, Pectoral-ass…(HINT: last word is sarcasm)…
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William Bentley
Really quickly let me ask you how you equate , “My big beautiful black president” with he is only the president for blacks, after all i am white and my comments were in jest and directed toward Jokah…If you can not decipher sarcasm from debatable content then you are playing with the wrong group, Pectoral-ass…(HINT: last word is sarcasm)…
xPraetorius:
If you can’t write sarcasm well, maybe you shouldn’t try.
Best,
— x
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Sharon is right on the money, it’s typical conservative rhetoric, no matter what you do he is going to say anything to play the victim, thus making you look like the bully…the problem with his arguments are they are all theory, people’s opinions based on bias minute data at some ivy league college….His weakest attribute is when he starts to put words into your mouth and creates an entire thread based on false testimony he created…He has formed opinions based, not on life or facts, but what small studies he has read about or watched on his computer or TV…the only way you can actually have a true logical opinion about other people, groups, races, religions, etc is if you actually spent time with those people. If you have strong opinions regarding a group of people but yet you have never once walked a day in their shoes or at least walked a day beside them your opinion is baseless and prejudice and when certain people who have always been at the top of the colonial ladder make wide demonizing claims about certain people who have always been pushed to the bottom of the colonial ladder, it pisses me off…However, I try to get over it really fast and lighten things up a bit…(HONK!, HONK!)….that was me squeezing your big clown nose.
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I bought it….
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Mr Bentley
the only way you can actually have a true logical opinion about other people, groups, races, religions, etc is if you actually spent time with those people.
You touted your mother’s brief marriage to a black guy. First, the term will probably go over your head but the ‘self-selection bias’ is pretty obvious. And, second, you claimed to be from a middle class family near Chino. So, basically, your experience is largely based on that of a single, hand-picked family living in a majority white, lower middle class community. Your experience actually makes you uniquely unqualified to have an opinion on this topic.
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Mr Joker, even with my 47 years of living in a blended family I do not attempt to make comments about how my black cousins or my black uncles should behave regarding slavery, oppression or any one of the several afflictions that this country has handed down against people of color. Even with my 6 years of living in Altadena and Inglewood did not give me enough exposure to imagine myself in their shoes…but it sure gives me more of an understanding and more exposure than 90% of the people who are void of color…And if you want to be taken more seriously you should actually read the post of others and listen to what they wrote…don’t just briefly skim through the thread for reasons of trying to make the person look bad or to gain some sense of glory…sitting in front of a computer screen and using peoples post to play devils advocate for a sense of self worth is extremely pathetic…
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Mr Bentley
but it sure gives me more of an understanding and more exposure than 90% of the people
You haven’t had more exposure than me by a long shot.
sitting in front of a computer screen and using peoples post to play devils advocate for a sense of self worth is extremely pathetic…
My sentiments exactly. However, when I compare what you’ve said about your life I’m not sure you should be telling me that.
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I stand by my last comments, your rebuttle was weak and does not qualify for a response. I will add something about your last post though. You should know that making assumptions about someone’s life will only make you look like a fool, after all you should know what happens when you “ass-u-me”. I no doubt made some heated comments in my earlier post about my race based on my experiences as a child and how racism from mostly white men affected my life. At no time did I say that all whites were racist but did say with a bit of playful sarcasm that I became a racist against my own race. It was not true, after all I love all my white Liberal brothers and sisters…this banter we have shared back and forth has sometimes been stimulating and fun but I am done with this thread and because I totally enjoy Abagonds site and just about everything he writes I will keep checking in and when I feel it is appropriate i will respond or share another one of my many bi-racial family experiences…maybe you’ll get lucky and hear about one of my very early bi-racial sexual experiences, they’re really hot!
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Mr Bentley
“maybe you’ll get lucky and hear about one of my very early bi-racial sexual experiences, they’re really hot!”
And maybe I’ll share some of mine with you. Now, what were you saying about making assumptions?
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LOL….Truce…for now.
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