What did race have to do with the George Zimmerman case in America? George Zimmerman, a half-white, half-Latino man who gets a bloody nose and a few scratches on his head, shoots dead Trayvon Martin, an unarmed, 17-year-old black boy, calls it self-defence and is found “not guilty” of both murder and manslaughter by a nearly all-white court. How could that possibly be racist? I mean, it is not like Zimmerman used the N-word. It was a fair trial! Besides, the president is black!
Here are some ways:
- Black life was assumed not to matter much. In effect, a bloody nose and a few scratches on the head of a man who is half-white mattered more than the life of a 17-year-old black boy. It was not just Zimmerman who thought that, so did the police, who did not think the killing was a big deal. So did the prosecution, who pretty much just went through the motions – they did not even properly prepare their witnesses.
- The Black Brute stereotype – the idea that black men rape and kill for no reason, that they have “violent tendencies”, “criminal propensities”, as if huge numbers of them are savage psychopaths or something. It is why white women clutch their purses, why whites cross the street – because, apparently, black men only tug at purses gently, cannot cross the street and never go after those who show fear. This stereotype ran throughout the case:
- Zimmerman racially profiled Martin. As a neighbourhood watchman, Zimmerman only reported black males as “suspicious”. Martin was one of them, even though it was only seven at night and he was minding his own business walking back from 7-Eleven. It was not like Martin was breaking into a house or a car or beating up someone.
- The police assumed Martin was the bad guy. Instead of giving Zimmerman a drug test and holding him for 48 hours while they sorted out what took place, the police let him go to work the next day! They believed his story just on his say-so – in part because it fit the Black Brute stereotype perfectly: some black guy jumped out at him in the dark and tried to kill him. For no reason. Because, apparently, black men are like mad dogs.
- The prosecution lawyers never seriously questioned the main hole in Zimmerman’s story: Why in the world would Trayvon Martin want to kill George Zimmerman? Martin did not know Zimmerman. Zimmerman says he did not threaten him. Martin had no record of violence or insanity. The Black Brute stereotype is the spit holding this story together.
- The defence lawyers painted Martin as a dangerous thug, based not on a police record or record of violence, but on how he looked! How was that possible?
- The jury was packed with white women. We do not know what their thinking was. Maybe they were not racist at all. But the defence certainly assumed they were, playing on their purse-clutching fears of black men!
See also:
“I mean, it is not like Zimmerman used the N-word. It was a fair trial! Besides, the president is black!”
Sadly this is how they think. They think racism will be overt and have the use of the n word. BUt even when the n word is used like in the murder of Kenneth Chamberlain, they still get off smh. Yes the trial was so fair that the jury was full of whites because only they can judge what is racism and what is right and wrong. Yes the president is looked at as black but his mind is as white as the woman he came out of.
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Why do people constantly underestimate this real fact; white women are racist like white men.
SMDH
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“To some Americans Trayvon Martin looks like a dangerous person, even in this picture.”
Yep, but these same people watch sports, where sometimes they wear hoodies, i wonder if they think the sports players are thugs. Oh nevermind they make them money, and as long as they dunking a ball or making touchdowns they are good. Oh but off the field they still get pulled over for dwb. So i guess black males if u don’t want to be profiled stay on the field and court, because once u come off and are not making them money u just a n@@r and can be terminated.
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“It is why white women clutch their purses, why whites cross the street – because, apparently, black men only tug at purses gently, cannot cross the street and never go after those who show fear.”
The reactions sound so silly when you say it like that. The particularly sad thing about this case for me is how much Martin was minding his own business. He’s on the phone trying to get home out of the rain. What did he do wrong?
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“I think most white people aren’t taught how NOT to be racist, I think they are taught now not to APPEAR to be racist and how to cover their azz if someone does call them racist”
Well said. ‘White’ is a label that says you’re part of the club. Groups (like Italians or Irish) have become white. So it’s hard to be identified as white yet be taught how to truly not be racist when the reason you are ‘white’ in the first place is to benefit from white supremacy.
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“Yes the president is looked at as black but his mind is as white as the woman he came out of.”
Lol yep, that’s why I didn’t care when ppl were getting so excited he was being elected…like I know he wouldn’t help black people, they wouldn’t let him become president if he did…
But he’s gone too far, too far…
Same reason the Cosby show didn’t talk about racism…to make whites comfortable…
@Peanut, I don’t think wm care…I wish they would call me a nigger, instead of smiling in my face…then I’d know to stay away from them…whites aren’t innocent, they know what’s going on…
Black people to unite, we can’t be worrying about colorism or what WP do, all blacks from all countries…we must unite, like the whites did…and stop fighting each other! 😥
R.I.P Trayvon, I love you! 😥
We all know nothing has changed, whites are just getting sneakier, look at the past…they never change their tricks!
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That’s why I laugh at whites who claim their colourblind, and tell us that we’re more racist…c’mon! Who even created the concept of race in the first place!
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It’s really upsetting me how many white people simply don’t get it.
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Looking at this verdict from a legal perspective, I don’t think the issues here have so much to do with race as they do with bad laws in Florida.
It is very obvious that Martin was racially profiled by Zimmerman. A white kid walking in that neighbourhood would have never been approached in the first place. Yes, I think Zimmermans character is questionable, and he is probably racist, but that isn’t enough on its own to convict someone.
The “stand your ground law” (or whatever it’s called) in Florida is a strange one. Here in Canada Zimmerman probably would have been convicted of manslaughter (but definitely not murder) and not because of racial reasons. Shooting someone would be considered beyond “self defense” and plus you can’t Conceal and Carry here anyway.
The only question that matters in the case is “who attacked who first.” That’s it. And unfortunately, we have no idea. Therefore, the charges of murder\manslaughter, could not be proven BEYOND A REASONABLE DOUBT. There has to be absolutely no doubt whatsoever to convict someone of such charges.
In short, it’s my personal opinion that Zimmerman committed manslaughter at least, and yes I do think he racially profiled Martin. But in law there has to be more than just feelings and hunches. And according to Florida law, there was no chance Zimmerman would be convicted. No witnesses, and not enough evidence.
It’s sad, because sometimes (more than sometimes) bad people get away with it. But maybe it means laws need to be revised in some way.
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I just read an article where they were saying something similar to abagond.
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2013/07/15/1223721/-Race-and-Prejudice-in-America-Today-a-Series-Image-Perception-Racism#
Here is the ending:
…………………………………………………………………………………………………..
It is this imagery that followed blacks throughout the civil rights era and beyond. So it should be clear why black people get upset when someone makes a “joke” about black people loving fried chicken and watermelon, or of President Obama and his family resembling monkeys. It is part of the deep-rooted psychosis of racism. One of the most profound statements on the power of imagery in racism came from a series of related comments from a previous article I wrote. This one in particular actually overwhelmed me [19]:
(
I am white from an all white town in rural Ohio but I have stories from the other side of the fence to tell.
Growing up a redneck in a small farm town makes people automatically assume that I am a racist like them. People share their feelings with me as if they expect me to agree with them. My parents were racists. The KluKluxKlan was an admirable group to many in my family. I knew people so nice that they would lay down their life for their friends and family, little old ladies that could pass for Aunt Bee on the Andy Griffith Show and they would swell up and let loose some of the most vile and repulsive comments ever spoken as if they were commenting on the weather.
A lot of people have not experienced the raw verbal racism that occurs when a bigot thinks there is no one around who objects. I know that I will never truly understand what it is like to be black. However, I do know how the other side truly thinks and it is almost like the twilight zone sometimes when you see seemingly respectable people reveal their true selves when they think no one is looking.
)
Racial imagery is how people from an all white town in rural Ohio, across America and around the world formulate their opinion of blacks without ever having come into contact with them. This imagery stimulates fear, and fear generates and breeds racism. This is the real reason, I believe, that Trayvon martin is no longer with us.
……………………………………………………………………………………………………
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I don’t buy it. When I first heard about this tragedy I assumed that Martin was killed in cold blood. But as the facts started coming out, it was clear the Zimmerman was attacked by Martin. You have a witness who say that Martin was on top.
What was Zimmerman supposed to do, let Martin beat his head against the sidewalk?
http://abcnews.go.com/US/george-zimmerman-beaten-prosecution-witnesses/story?id=19517236#.UeSVEdJqFCg
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504083_162-57592866-504083/george-zimmerman-trial-trayvon-martin-was-on-top-of-zimmerman-when-teen-was-shot-gunshot-wound-expert-testifies/
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But isn’t this bigger than Trayvon and Zimmerman and has more do with than just anti-black racism? This can happen to anyone! I think the laws need to be changed and I believe this Stand Your Ground law is most likely being abused wherever it has been instituted.
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His racism caused the whole incident. Everybody else’s racism let him off the hook.
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“His racism” being George Zimmerman’s.
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Because Zimmerman was a racist.
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Just like commenter Origin said, Zimmerman and the racist in the trial and all the racist in that town of Stanford. Florida.
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@ peanut
Yes henry louis gates is a perfect example. we are not safe even in our own homes black people have been shot and killed in or near their own homes by the police and never got justice, Kenneth Chamberlain, Ramarley Graham,Mario Romero, Kathryn Johnson,Aiyana Jones Amadou Bailo Diallo.
People can deny racism all they want, but i never hear about a black policeman killing an unarmed white man and getting away with it.
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Did anyone hear about the African-American lady in Florida who merely shot a gunshot into the wall to scare away her abusive husband and is facing 20 years in prison?
Ummm, no one was killed or shot and she’s facing 20 years in prison?
whoaaaa! wtf is going on?
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I personally feel like we as blacks know this country’s history, know how the majority of whites think/want to treat blacks, we need to be on our p’s and q’s. It’s scary though how things are working. I also know that when black teens steal a car they are rightfully charged with car theft but when white youths steel a car, strip it of the radio or other and steal from out of it and leave it on the other side of town, cops call it “joyriding”?
what in God’s name?
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Still not surprised by those claiming Zimmerman had the right to KILL Martin.
What about Trayvon Martin’s right to “Stand His Ground”? Now if Zimmerman was afraid why didn’t he just stay in the car like he was told?
Anyway I found this interesting article from a cop’s pov on the whole verdict. This cop says he’s disgusted by the cops rushing to Zimmerman’s defense:
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2013/07/14/1223459/-A-Cop-s-take-on-the-Verdict?detail=email.
@phoebeprunelle
Exactly. When my parents came to visit me in Seattle, my father said he was at this store when this white lady clutched her purse when he walked by her, like he was going to snatch it. Mind you, my father was well dressed and he’s in his early 60s–but it doesn’t matter. In some people’s minds black=bad, no matter how articulate and well dressed you are! It’s almost as if it’s deeply embedded in the mind like a program.
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@Gina
I agree. This particular law in Florida is, whats the word, prehistoric? Even if someone physically attacks you, I don’t think that gives you the right to shoot them with a weapon. That’s far too extreme. I’ve been jumped before, I’ve been beat up, but I didn’t have a gun, and I was ok. Sore, but I didn’t kill anyone.
The gun laws (and other laws) in the US are outrageous. Huge changes in the US legal system have to be made.
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ok im going to play devils advocate for this comment. Lets take race out of it for a sec. THen answer this question why was zimmerman not arrested even if the cops thought he was innocent? Why if they thought he was innocent did they not arrest him right away and let it go to trial? Why is it that cops that kill un armed black males get off but but at least go to trial while zimmerman was not arrested or sent to trial until people protested? Is he above the police? because that is the message i get. And everybody should be concerned when a civilian can get this level of cover up that we mostly see when it comes to cops and the military covering for their own. SO what made this civilian so special? Is it his judge father? If that is the case then people should be worried that the just his system is like a job, u get it based on who u know or are connected to.
Now look at this vid, this black man defended himself from road rage, and was arrested and had a trial where he was found to have acted in self defense,
http://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=self+defense+murder+u+decide&view=detail&mid=65A2C8177228A40A7D2865A2C8177228A40A7D28&first=0&FORM=NVPFVR
Now ask yourself, why was george not arrested immediately after but this man was?
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I mean take racism out of it, typo
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“only ONE neighbor said he saw Trayvon or “a darker person,” as he described it on top.”
I count two. Both are written about here. And yes it also does say that other witnesses say that Trayvon was on top. You will also note that the Ms Surdyka thought that the person calling for help was Travon. Proving how contradictory eye witness accounts can be. However it could also be a case of Travon seeing the gun Zimmerman pulled on him and crying for help.
http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/USA-Update/2013/0628/Who-was-on-top-in-Zimmerman-Martin-tussle-Witness-testimony-in-conflict
“And they could have been rolling back and forth with one person on top one moment, another on top the next…that doesn’t prove ANYTHING about who actually initiated it…”
Which is why we have to rely on eye witness testimony and a court of law. We look at the evidence and try to decide beyond a reasonable doubt whether the defendent is guilty.
All evidence supports Zimmermans account. Travon’s bloody fists and the fact that the forensic pathologist (Dr. Vincent Di Maio) said that the evidence shows that Martin was on top of Zimmerman leads me to think that Zimmerman is innocent.
“I do not believe for a minute that you originally thought it was murder in cold blood, I think you were waiting for any moment or excuse to put the blame on Martin.”
If you look at my comment history (I think Abagond can verify this) you will note that I try to stick to general knowledge posts and generally avoid racial topics. This is because I am neither White nor American and do not feel that it is my place to comment on those matters. The only ‘controvertial’ comment I made (I think) was when I asked Abagond whether he got tired of whining about racial issues and whether it would be better if he just focused on getting rich. I admit that it is EXTREMLY insensitive of me to make such a remark, but in my defense I was having a bad day. And no I wasn’t taking it out on him, I was wondering if he was tempted to just get rich and ignore all the injustices in the world.
The follow-up question usually is “Then why say that you think Trayvon was guilty?” Because I am a firm believer in truth. And, from my limited non-American POV, it seems like this is being used as just another news story that will be revisited on its aniversary, and the real problem of Black Americans being abused (be it in school, in the workplace or in popular culture) will be ignored.
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“mstoogood4yall,
Now ask yourself, why was george not arrested immediately after but this man was?”
Linda says,
Stop playing… you know Why he got let go in less than 1 day…Daddy
and his Best friend — US air marshal and former Seminole County sheriff’s deputy Mark Osterman who was also friends with Sanford Police Chief Bill Lee.
Only naïve people believe that “who you know” does not matter in this world… knowing the Right people in the Right places can turn a “mountain” into an ant hill.
http://newsone.com/2025282/mark-osterman-george-zimmerman/
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I heard a really, really interesting radio show earlier today that is worth mentioning.
It was about how the relationship between blacks and whites in America has changed since a large Latino population has emerged.
It said that we have this idea that America is made up of white people and “everybody else” that is to say everyone else is lumped in as a minority.
But the reality is that Latinos have a closer relationship (through work, school, neighbourhoods) with whites than they do with blacks.
In other words, as the Hispanic population grows, blacks are becoming MORE marginalized, not less.
Anyway, I thought it was very interesting, and something you may want to read about.
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@peanut
and for the people who keep bringing up “Zimmerman’s horrific head injuries,” the doctors on the trial all testified that they were insignificant, one physician assistant even said the cuts were small and testitifed that it was HIGHLY unlikely that he would have sustained such minor injuries from his head being slammed into the concrete…and on top of that neighbors testified that they never saw any banging of head against the concrete and THEY ENDED UP ON THE GRASS when the shooting occurred….
“Zimmerman’s injuries indicate “you’ve had severe force, it’s not just like you bumped your head or something like that,” Di Maio said.
Zimmerman’s injuries were consistent with having his head hit against concrete more than once, Di Maio said. The former neighborhood watch captain said the teen smashed his head into a sidewalk several times before he claimed he acted in self-defense.”
That doesn’t sound like they testified that it was insignificant.
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504083_162-57592866-504083/george-zimmerman-trial-trayvon-martin-was-on-top-of-zimmerman-when-teen-was-shot-gunshot-wound-expert-testifies/
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“Ineedtoselectanameandstickwithit @ All evidence supports Zimmermans account. Travon’s bloody fists and the fact that the forensic pathologist (Dr. Vincent Di Maio) said that the evidence shows that Martin was on top of Zimmerman leads me to think that Zimmerman is innocent.”
Linda says,
Trayvons “bloody fists”?????
did you miss the part in the trial where NO one could find any blood on Trayvon’s hands, any of Zimmermans blood or DNA on Trayvon, but they found Zimmermans blood and DNA on Trayvon..
I guess that “evidence” past you by in your zest to make Zimmerman look like he was such a “wuss” that he just laid there and got beat up.
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Abagond, do you believe that brain damage occurs ONLY with injuries that are visible?
“Di Maio also said it’s possible to receive trauma without visible wounds. “You can get severe trauma to the head without external injuries, actually,” Di Maio said.”
So what peanut is saying is, just because it was a ‘small’ cut, it wouldn’t hurt a persons brain.
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Excellent article I ran across via DK,
“Black boys denied the right to be young” by Eugene Robinson
http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/eugene-robinson-black-boys-denied-the-right-to-be-young/2013/07/15/
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I don’t know about the rest of you (Zimmerman non-supporters) but going over the “Zimmerman is innocent and I’ll tell you why” with Zimmerman supporters is a waste to time….
These adults have proven that it’s OK to kill a teenager and believe anything the murderer says because “hey, no one else is alive to say otherwise” and a whole group of people (who weren’t there and did NOT witness how the fight went down) got on the stand and gave their 2 cents and Speculations…
so I guess next time someone gets robbed and no one sees it, we should call the victim a “liar” and let the criminal go home because the criminals friends all said “hey, he was with me” and I got the McDonalds receipt to prove it.
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@ Ineed
If his injuries were at all serious he would have been sent to the hospital that night.
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“Ineedtoselectanameandstickwithit @ All evidence supports Zimmermans account. Travon’s bloody fists and the fact that the forensic pathologist (Dr. Vincent Di Maio) said that the evidence shows that Martin was on top of Zimmerman leads me to think that Zimmerman is innocent.”
Linda says,
Trayvons “bloody fists”?????
did you miss the part in the trial where NO one could find any blood on Trayvon’s hands, any of Zimmermans blood or DNA on Trayvon, but they found Trayvons blood and DNA on Zimmerman.
I guess that “evidence” past you by in your zest to make Zimmerman look like he was such a “wuss” that he just laid there and got beat up.
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Abagond, can you delete my comment Tue 16 Jul 2013 at 01:28:37 — I made a mistake and rewrote it.
also delete this comment
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@Linda
“The jury of six women, however, paid close attention to the photos showing them the youth’s two clenched fists and the cuts on his left hand, which had blood still visible on it.”
http://www.examiner.com/article/jury-shown-trayvon-martin-s-bloody-clenched-fist-as-state-rests-case
“WFTV has confirmed that autopsy results show 17-year-old Trayvon Martin had injuries to his knuckles when he died.
The information could support George Zimmerman’s claim that Martin beat him up before Zimmerman shot and killed him.
When you compare Trayvon’s non-fatal injury with Zimmerman’s bloody head wounds, the autopsy evidence is better for the defense, Sheaffer said.
“It goes along with Zimmerman’s story that he acted in self-defense, because he was getting beaten up by Trayvon Martin,” Sheaffer said.
The injury to Martin’s knuckle also fits with Zimmerman’s story that before he shot and killed Martin, Martin had broken his nose and knocked him to the ground, slamming his head on the sidewalk.”
http://www.wftv.com/news/news/local/autopsy-results-show-trayvon-martin-had-injuries-h/nN6gs/
HOWEVER you will also note the following:
“But Sheaffer said there could be another explanation for Martin’s knuckle injury. It could be consistent with Trayvon either trying to get away or defend himself,” Sheaffer said.”
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The point you made, Abagond, about the connection between a basically all white jury and the stereotype of dangerous black men is very good. That keeps coming back to my mind. The lawyers and judge really should get in trouble over this.
Anyway, here is a really good essay by Brent Staples that discusses basically the same issues. http://www.myteacherpages.com/webpages/rspriggs/files/staples%20just%20walk%20on%20by%20text.pdf
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A cut on a knucke is NOT a “bloody fist or hand” as You just stated…
There are numerous posts that Abagond made where we Discussed this whole thing IN detains, ad nauseum…
can you please go there and read and stop derailing this post…this post is dealing with “why race is a factor” — not why you believe Zimmerman was innocent.
Here are the links:
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A cut on a knucke is NOT a “bloody fist or hand” as You just stated
There are numerous posts that Abagond made where we Discussed this whole thing IN detains, ad nauseum…
can you please go there and read and stop derailing this post…
this post is dealing with “why race is a factor” — not why you believe Zimmerman was innocent.
Here are the links:
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abagond
The actual extent of the injuries does not appear to be relevant.
For a claim of self-defense to be lawful, a person must demonstrate that they had reason to believe that they were in imminent danger of serious injury or death.
In this case the claimant was a person whose head was purportedly being struck against the ground by another party who had them pinned. The limited physical evidence did not contradict that narrative.
Leaving aside whether or not those events transpired as stated, I would be very surprised if most people in that situation would not believe that they were in imminent danger of serious injury.
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@Linda
“A cut on a knucke is NOT a “bloody fist or hand” as You just stated”
Very well. Please allow me to restate it then. The evidence points to Zimmerman’s story being more believable compared to the prosecutions. You will note that you said the following:
“did you miss the part in the trial where NO one could find any blood on Trayvon’s hands, any of Zimmermans blood or DNA on Trayvon, but they found Zimmermans blood and DNA on Trayvon..”
A case can be made that Trayvon got those cuts on his hand from punching Zimmerman. If you did not know about this piece of evidence, then you are not seriously interested the details of this case and are merely parroting what everyone else is saying.
Notice that when I bring up points, I try to provide links to my sources and, when possible, try to give both sides of the argument that is made in the links. I notice that you provide neither sources nor alternative explanations. Hence my assumption that you are merely jumping on the bandwagon.
To answer the next question, I avoided posting on those two posts because it was (for the first post) early days and rumor and misinformation is rampant at the beginning of anything and (for the next post) the trial was ongoing and I wanted to wait until I had all the information to look at.
Unless Abagond wants me to, I see no reason to move this discussion over to those two posts. Abagond, I defer to your authority in this decision.
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“Ineedtoselectanameandstickwithit,
To answer the next question, I avoided posting on those two posts because it was (for the first post) early days and rumor and misinformation is rampant at the beginning of anything and (for the next post) the trial was ongoing and I wanted to wait until I had all the information to look at.”
Linda says,
This particular post
is recent, and very detailed.. you are not the first person to ask your questions.. all you’re going to do is a cause this post to be “cluster phucked” with this whole issue of the “evidence supports Zimmermans story”
it’s a blah, blah, blah issue at this point because it’s been discussed In Detail for the longest time.
you are truly derailing the discussion
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@peanut
“I don’t know where you got off making that comment because I never even mentioned the word brain in my response to you…”
“the doctors on the trial all testified that they were insignificant, one physician assistant even said the cuts were small and testitifed that it was HIGHLY unlikely that he would have sustained such minor injuries from his head being slammed into the concrete”
–Tue 16 Jul 2013 at 01:15:15Peanut
Very well. Then let me address the point at hand. You stated that all the doctors testified that they were insignificant. That is false. The defense had a doctor who said the following:
“Zimmerman’s injuries indicate “you’ve had severe force, it’s not just like you bumped your head or something like that,” Di Maio said.
Zimmerman’s injuries were consistent with having his head hit against concrete more than once, Di Maio said.
That is not all doctors and to suggest otherwise is patently false.
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Randy,
you’ve hit the nail on the head.
As I stated in another post, Zimmermans injuries don’t mean a thing at the end of the day because all he has to say is that he “feared for his life” —
he doesn’t have to have 1 scratch on him to claim “self-defense” based on Florida’s phucked up laws.
So I don’t know Zimmerman supporters keep bringing up his non-life threatening injuries as if it means something; while at the same time, they keep forgetting,
the Under the same self-defense laws, Trayvon also had a right to defend himself but unfortunately, he’s not here to give his side of the story and there were no cameras there to capture what Really went down.
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@ Ineed
The purpose of this thread is to talk about how race and racism shaped the case. Linda pointed you to the post where you can argue evidence or talk about Zimmerman’s guilt or innocence.
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Very well, I apologize for derailing the thread. It was not my intention but I appeared to have done that anyway. Sorry.
I believe that this is a portend of the future. I pride myself on being more perceptive than most people and I tend to notice patterns and connections where others do not. This seems to be a microcosm of what the future of the US will be. A Black ‘under class’ with Hispanics acting as a buffer on top, with the ‘proper’ Asians on top of that, and finally the Whites at the top of the heap.
I believe that Brazil could be an example of this. Not their abject poverty, but rather their racial and class system that has non-Whites or dark-skinned peoples, aspiring to be fair.
What do you think Abagond?
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@ Ineed
I addressed you in the other room.
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Which one?
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OMG, I just saw part of the interview with a juror on CNN.
Well, we do now. They definitely held the belief of the Black Brute Stereotype. Maybe the defense knew they did. GZ would not be found guilty from the get go.
After hearing her words, it seems like the whole state of non-black Florida feels the urge to go out and buy guns to protect themselves from black teenage thugs.
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Ok people, there is another case going to trial that is really messed up.
this time at least they do have one black male juror, but the sad part is his killer is old and lived his life so it will be bittersweet. http://www.jsonline.com/news/crime/trial-to-begin-for-man-76-accused-of-killing-teen-neighbor-b9954502z1-215504241.html
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Zimmerman’s head was very nearly bald during the time of the incident. The type of scratches he received could have easily been caused by GZ scraping his own head against concrete during his struggles with Trayvon Martin.
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Oh no, the white woman juror started crying in the interview. Why do they do that? It is almost like they do it on cue.
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@ Ineedtoselectanameandstickwithit
The one you were directed to.
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I see it. My reply is in moderation at the moment.
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Short clip: Juror: “Zimmerman’s heart was in the right place
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@Jefe,
what in Gods name could she be crying about other than a conscience (assuming that she’s in possession of one) bothering her? Did she manage to say?
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@ jefe
I just turned to anderson cooper interviewing the jurors and surprise surprise their face is hidden. u let a black jury let a black person off for killing a white person and their face and names would be out in public. oh wait that did happen with oj they had the womens names and ages put out there
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Agabond: Exactly.
Jefe: I saw that interview snippet. Why does everybody feel sorry for Zim? He made a series of extremely bad decisions that resulted in a conflict at the end of which a boy lay dead. Under every interpretation of the law, that is at least manslaughter. It is evident from his 911 tapes and his personal history that his choices were made because of his visions of vigilante glory and his racial animus.
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correction: *her conscience*
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it was not happenstance that the jury was packed with white women. Lawyers do get to question perspective jurors before choosing a jury.
When I first heard about the jury being packed in such a way, I figured it was a sure sign that GZ would walk free.
OJ Simpson lawyer Johnny Cochrane was supposed to have stated that OJ would get an acquittal if he (Cochrane) could pack the jury with Black women….
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@ fiamma
Its funny to me that they wanted a jury of black women for oj, when he didn’t date black women and was accused of killing a white woman. so i guess they want a black woman to defend them but not as a mate. Why not have his jury full of white women, i mean aren’t white people supposed to be more race neutral and unbiased? so its ok to have a black jury judge another black person or a white jury judge a black person, but its not ok to have a black jury judge a white person. df
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In the trial itself, no. Race had nothing to do with the verdict. The only reason it even went to trial was because of the public outcry and media attention.
Again, under any other circumstance this case would have never gone before a judge. Black on black or white on white.
There was nowhere near enough evidence for a conviction, according to Florida law.
But yes, I fully believe Zimmermans “attack” (or approach) was based on racial profiling.
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Jefe,
I just watched the juror, she made me want to vomit – totally vile!
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mstoogood4yall,
Yeah I remember at the time thinking it odd he would want an all Black female jury as OJ was seemed to be widely regarded as a sell out among Blacks not only due to his marriage to a white woman, but also to his having a mostly white social circle, and his apparent disregard for other Blacks.
I guess in the end Cochrane knew that Black women would still circle the wagons to protect a Black man regardless….It was a good call as far as I can see.
A jury of all White women would probably have given him the death penalty. A lot of them I came across were very angry after OJ was acquitted.
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@Abagond,
The post photo looks photoshopped or something. Is it an actual photograph?
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wow i just watched the juror that was crying omg. we can’t see ur face so save ur tears. And how the fk she gonna say she don’t want to be interviewed anymore and don’t want to be in the spotlight yet she going to write a book about this. smh. shoot we all should write a book. My book will be titled
Post Racial What?!: A Brief Look at His story,Racism, and the Affect It Has on the Just His System.
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@ peanut
Do u see rachel jeantel on piers morgan right now? i don’t think she should be doing interviews as it will only be used to make fun of her further.
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I think his race has a lot to do with this. If Zimmerman saw a White or Asian guy, I doubt he would have found the boy suspicious. He would have stayed in the car and drove away. But since Trayvon was Black, he thought he was a threat. Things would have happened differently if he was White. If Zimmerman shot Trayvon and he was White, White AmeriKKKlan would have gone crazy and started demanding everyone buy guns to protect themselves. And they would have demanded Zimmerman to get justice.
Plus White AmeriKKKlans went on blogs and internet stating how happy they were for the verdict and why they believed that Zimmerman was right in killing Trayvon. If Trayvon was White, Whites would have had different reactions. Trust me.
Race is a huge problem in this country. We need to face the problem and try do something about it but most White Americans don’t want to do that.
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that one juror said she feels sorry for her and that she is uneducated etc. they played the clip and asked rachel what she thinks about that. I know they just going to make fun of her and hope she says something to paint her as the sapphire. smh
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Another thing, if Trayvon was White, and Zimmerman got off, White AmeriKKKlan would have been as mad and upset right now as we are about Zimmerman getting off and Trayvon being Black. This boy never meant anything to Whites in this country. He was just another lowlife N***** to them just like any Black person they see walking by on the streets.
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peanut u see how that old white woman in the audience looking all crazy and shaking her head, rachel speaking the truth right now and they will dismiss it.
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now they getting all butt hurt since she talked about the c word and saying it is racist. i kinda wish she didn’t do this interview, we get where she is coming from but they don’t i can tell by the white audience and their facial expressions. I do agree with what she is saying she speaking the truth. the black ppl are clapping but the whites have their arms folded. SHe just laid the truth out when she said that u would tell ur kid to run not stand there or they gone be on the news kidnapped. and the black ppl clapped the whites just looking crazy at her. smh.
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Mstoogood4yall
They were cruel making fun of her. I don’t know why they made fun of her. They will always find ways to make us look and feel bad. She was just a young lady who was grief stricken and put under pressure. SMH, like I said before, White America doesn’t see Black people as humans. We are just merely there to them.
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Why didn’t you guys respond to me yet? I want to talk to you guys about this lol!
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i understand Rachel but this stistah can’t be talking like that around white folk. They will judge her asap. They giving her the stink eye. omg she basically giving ppl a pass to say the n word. why god why. She need to stop doing interviews.
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@ Adeen
Oh sorry. i agree with what she is saying but the way she says some things just makes me wince.
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Nothing
Race had nothing to do with it. The prosecutors were idiots. Acussing Zimmerman of “MURDER”? Seriously? How did they expect to win that case? At most I say Zimmerman is guilty of manslaughter/wrongful death.
This is what happens when the media covers a court case. I doubt anyone here actually read the evidences provided by both sides. Anyone hear of the 14 year old who was beaten to death and stuffed in a trash can by 3 African American teenagers over bike parts?
No?
Exactly. Race has very little to do with this case.
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Jeantel didn’t have a chance on the stand.
She was not going to be considered credible.
http://bps-research-digest.blogspot.com/2010/10/speakers-with-foreign-accent-are.html
They say it isn’t just because of prejudice but you can go anywhere (the Caribbean, for example) with a white American accent and not be thought of as an idiot because of how you speak.
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lol @ Adeen, feeling left out. awww c’mere—> \o/
Sup mstoogood4yall? gemme some sugar…. ^_^
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@ sondis
Hey u up late lol
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I don’t think TM wanted to kill GZ that sounds outlandish to me. Maybe he wanted to rough up GZ for messing with him and stuff(if he attacked first).
I don’t personally see this as racism(overt racism gets my attention more, because how can you tell covert racism from non racism?), and this blog hasn’t done much to convenience me either. It’s almost nothing but conjecture.
You can certainly say GZ is a liar on certain things and had very bad judgment in the situation but racist? While I’m sure it’s possible, there isn’t much proof let alone evidence of that. There’s no control (something to compare it too) so it’s a moot.
I don’t think stand your ground has much to do with this case, if GZ is being straddled and pummeled like he said you really can’t run really do anything else but stand his ground.
We should also focus on the prosecution and the terrible job they did with this case (thought the defense wasn’t impressive either).
Though I’ve been hearing a lot of the family sewing for a civil/wrongful death case. I’m confused to that, would that be double jeprody?
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@ sondis
*cyberhug*
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Can someone with legal experience clarify the civil rights case for me or lead me in the right direction to find out for myself?
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@Charles
“It’s almost nothing but conjecture. ”
lol, GZ called 911 on a 9 year old black boy who was walking to school and several other black people in the neighbourhood in the motnhs leading up to the TM incident. Then he just happens to consider TM suspicious when he knows nothing about him except his appearance and just happens to have a gun to shoot him with to make sure that this ‘asshole’ doesn’t get away. Nothing but conjecture? lol. The guy is not only racist, he probably has a few screws loose.
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@ charles
here ya go
http://www.quickanddirtytips.com/business-career/legal/can-you-be-sued-even-if-you%E2%80%99re-%E2%80%9Cnot-guilty%E2%80%9D?page=all
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Thank you. The very least the family deserves is to win that case.
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@ charles
Ur welcome. Yes i hope they win that case too
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Abagond, not sure how accurate this is but there is a rumor that the Literary Agent for the juror who wanted to write a book (with her husband) rescinded the offer.
“After careful consideration regarding the proposed book project with Zimmerman Juror B37, I have decided to rescind my offer of representation in the exploration of a book based upon this case.”
All best,
Sharlene Martin
Martin Literary Management”
https://twitter.com/sharlenemartin
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From Ta-Nehisi Coates, with whom I often disagree, but here he’s spot on:
http://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2013/07/trayvon-martin-and-the-irony-of-american-justice/277782/
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what do you guys think about the only, “black woman” on George Zimmerman’s defense team? She seems like a tacky placement and her motives were in the best interest of her career.
She sits there on camera and say, “i don’t think this case is about race” and even goes as far as to say, “I don’t think George Zimmerman is a racist” LMFAOO!
The host asked her, “how do you know?” She replied, “i know a racist when i see one and he isn’t one of them” hahahhaa really?
She claims to have asked o’mara, “is Zimmerman a racist?” ( as to come off as having some sense of dignity, before joining the team to clear her conscious ) NO, he is not a racist, O’mara replied.
She replied, ‘that was good enough for me” LMFAOOO so what was he suppose to say???? Yes, he’s a racist, now get to work! LMFAOOO!!!
She’s a sell out to her race and every other black person in America for joining the defense.
They didn’t need her at all, she didn’t add anything to the defense team, only to put a black face on the team, being everyone else on it was white!
I mean really, what did she even do? sharpen pencils? make errands to star bucks for coffee and doughnuts? I mean in the video, all she did was hand papers and when she wasn’t doing that, she was just sitting down and watching like everyone else, ( in plain view of the camera, mind you! )
She was a shameless plant, she is a disgrace to her race for selling out to further her career!
watch the short clip, below as judge for yourself….
http://bossip.com/803561/sellout-or-just-doing-her-job-meet-george-zimmermans-defense-teams-black-intern-video/
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@ kiwi
That is what i am wondering. when they’ve done those things it was ok, but when blacks tried to fight back they hurried up and killed them. When they’ve done those things we are supposed to forget. When white men were raping black women it was ok for them, but a black man to even look at or whistle at a white woman was a death sentence. THey love seeing what other people do even if what other ppl do is a minor thing compared to theirs. Its like how they show criminals who steal small amounts of money and cars and things, yet they don’t want to show the ones who steal millions of dollars from people and really vilify the ones who steal a small amount while ignoring or glorifying the ones who steal the larger amount.
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@ sondis
Yea i saw that on youtube. It was a shame, how she acted. She said i can tell when someone is racist, yet she had to get white confirmation that he was not a racist. smh. really if u can tell what are u asking a white man for? she is whitewashed as heck, i bet she watch scandal too smh,
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Sondis
THat woman i wanted to slap the sheit out of. How she is she gonna ask a white person if another person is racist, especially when that person is the lawyer representing the suspected racist. smh. this woman has no common sense. and anyway why ask a white person about racism anyway they deny deny deny and think the only racists are the ones who wear white hoods. THey can only spot the overt racists. she need a ni##r wakeup call.
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And then she 30 something and a dam intern, wtf was she doing.
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@Sondis
While her reasoning is bad I don’t think that makes her a sell out, just a little silly.
Accusing our own people of terrible things like that is why so many people (including blacks) say we are our own worst enemy. If you disagree with her just say so, no need for the conjecture of her being a sell out. You don’t know the woman, and don’t you think it’s a little bit childish to make assumptions about people like that?
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mstoogood4yall:
She was obviously saying all the right things in front of the camera. I guarantee you, that she actually knows damn well, that Zimmerman, should have been found, guilty. She just happens to be a black woman, that was willing to sell her own race out, to further her career.
This is the opposite of what black people need right now. Unity between each other is what we need, not another black person to sell their own race, down the river!
I’m glad she has shown her face, so everyone can know, that she sold out to black people!
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Charles, don’t talk to me, you’re not even a black person, you’re nothing more than a white troll, pretending to be a black person. goodbye…
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mstoogood4yall:
Yeah, she’ll regret the day she sold out, it’ll come back to bite her in the butt.
She’s definitely a white-identified sell out….
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@ sondis
yeah, and i see ppl defend her would more than likely do the same thing and see no issue with it. THey would go beat up,kill, or capture another black person if they could get ahead. Yeah u do that to get ahead, all u doing is reaching the glass ceiling faster than the rest of us, but that is as far as u go. slow and steady wins the race
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Like i said we need to separate ourselves from the judases in our race, we don’t need to be fighting and have mofos selling us out for a few pieces of silver. They used to infiltrate us and give intel to the enemy and set us back. We gotta deal with them before we can move together united.
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mstoogood4yall:
Yeah, that’s why she’s 30 something and a damn intern.
white law firms are not trying to promote her, she’s gonna have to learn the hard way. lots of blacks have sold out, just to find out, it was all for nothing!
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@sondis, typical much? Any black person on the Internet that doesn’t eat up the racial rhetoric in the black community is a troll. That’s logical. I’d like to think I know my own race more than you. Why would I need to pretend to be black? Apparently that doesn’t give more credibility to my claims.
Did you ever think that some people try not to put words or intentions and make assumptions about others? But generally speaking I guess someone as objective and open minded such as myself is in the wrong place.
I was gonna stick around maybe hoping to be a little bit more understanding(because you all seemed like you had interesting things to say), but there is no point trying to understand a generally dismissive handful of people not open to discussion who don’t having their beliefs challenged on their turf.
Oh well.
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mstoogood4yall:
Yeah, that’s why i cut em loose, the ones that have obviously sold out.
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mstoogood4yall:
Adeen, spotted him a mile away. lmfaooo!
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@Sondis
Hello, how are you doing, handsome?
Exactly, I can’t stand Charles. It is obvious to me that he is a White troll pretending to be Black to gain approval on here. I hate him. Why can’t he admit that he is White! He is nothing but a White troll. I pointed that out on another thread. Charles is mad because I know the TRUE nature of White Americans and it isn’t pretty. Most Whites were happy that Zimmerman got off. That should tell you something. White Americans are truly an evil group of people and the bad ones outnumber the good ones.
And I am mad at the verdict. That Black woman is a sellout. I hate sellouts in my race. I don’t even consider them apart of the community.
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rofl. I need a repellent and a radar for these types. jive turkey be gone spray
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And I am 17. I have been on this blog to realize Charlies is nothing but a troll who wants to divide and confuse people.
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i can’t stand tiger woods and serena williams type of black ppl that get called racist things yet excuse it away. smh. I say let them go because if they won’t stand up for themselves there is no way in he11 they would stand up or defend another black person. we don’t need that around us.
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@Mstoogood4yall
I hate Charles. He can’t fool me at all. I know the nature of White Americans. I do wonder why he wouldn’t admit to being a White troll. He is. Race had everything to do with those trial.
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mstoogood4yall:
LMFAO @ jive turkey B.Gone!
But you see…i need no spray!! I use my Negro magic to rid myself of white trolls on this blog!
step back,mstoogood4yall and i will demonstrate my wizardry!
*hocus pocus!!! *abracadabra!!! POOF!! white trolls, be gone!! *_*
Adeen, hey there my beautiful black princess! I’m doing just fine.
Yeah, i picked up on what you were saying in the other thread about that Charles, character.
He is definitely white, pretending to be black. oh well, i just ignore him and all the other white trolls. everyone knows I’m here for my black people, to give and receive support from my fellow black people, that i love and love me back! ^_^
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The first Juror speaks out.
http://www.cnn.com/2013/07/15/justice/zimmerman-juror-book/index.html?hpt=hp_t1
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mstoogood4yall:
I watched a documentary on Serena and Venus Williams last week.
There was one segment, where she was talking to one of her, tennis buddies, a white boy that trains with her all the time to keep her on her game. they got into a discussion about dating.
This heffa had the nerve to sit there and say, “i love my black men, i prefer black men and i like masculine black men” blah blah blah… Then i see pictures of her with a white man, her “coach” a french man hand in hand!
Lost respect for her…..sell out!
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@Adeen:
On the contrary, I’m not trying to divide anyone I just think people shouldn’t be quick to judge. If anything YOU guys are the ones promoting divide saying things like
“I don’t trust my kids with white women” “99% of white people are racist”
” White Americans are truly an evil group of people and the bad ones outnumber the good ones”
“to be Black to gain approval on here. ”
I do no such thing. I only say I’m black to avoid being falsely accused, if you all were somehow able to confirm my race you wouldn’t find my arguments more credible, you’d just call me a self hater(as if you’d know that). Me being black doesn’t make what I say more or less true. I just wanted to avoid misconceptions.
But if you’d rather be dismissive to satiate your ignorance then there’s nothing I can do. I can speak my piece and I’m sure you all are religious right?
“thou shalt not bare false witness.” Ring any bells? If you believe in god you know only he know for sure.
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Charles, leave Adeen alone, she doesn’t want to talk to you, so stop harassing her.
She and i have made ourselves clear, we don’t want to talk to you as we know who and what you are.
Goodbye…
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“Accusing our own people of terrible things like that is why so many people (including blacks) say we are our own worst enemy.”
Wrong. we say we are our own worst enemy when some black ppl don’t support each other like with black businesses. We are our own worst enemy when u have black ppl sabotaging each other for some little scraps or competing with each other. We say we are our own worst enemy when it is some black ppl hating each other based on superficial things. we are not our own worst enemy when we suspect we are being lied to or infiltrated. We are not our worst enemy when we choose to separate ourselves from other blacks that act violently towards another black person. WE are our best allies when we have the same objective and don’t allow ourselves to be distracted. WE are our best allies when we know what the problem is and don’t deny it but do something about it no matter how small. WE have bigger fish to fry.
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mstoogood4yall:
Well said!
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@mstoogood4yall
Then excuse my post. I stand corrected.
@Sondis, if she can express her opinion so can I. And no you don’t KNOW anything. I would find it funny if it wasn’t so sad that I know who I am and people who have never seen me are telling me otherwise because we disagree.
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Rofl
I tell ya who the heck brings in religion and mlk? Those things don’t work on us anymore, . They stay bringing mlk up when talking about race, because they want us to be kumbaya negroes. Fk it Malcolm is my man. Religion was used to enslave us, i do believe in a higher power, but that will not work in manipulating me.smh
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mstoogood4yall:
I know, right? He’s a dead give away for a white man. LMFAO!
You see, white people can’t fool black people, we been around them far to long to not know one typing, when we see their words. lol
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@mstoogood4yall
I guess that was presumptuous on my part. Excuse that, But I just figured MLK was apparently a good role model, and had some smart things to say about judging people by their race.
I wasn’t trying to be manipulative, just trying to make a philosophical point.
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” them far to long to not know one typing”
The black Juror can’t visually make out a racist when they see one yet you can call a white man by what someone types? Seems legit
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Mlk did have some good things to say, but so did many others like Malcolm. And regardless of how nice and peaceful he was he was shot dead by a white man. It don’t matter how nice someone is they can still be killed and seen as a threat or being a black brute.
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@Charles, Get a life. I hate you and want you out of here. I am sick of trolls like you. Don’t talk to me after this. I am a young Black woman, 17 and I don’t want to deal with people like you who like to malign my opinion.
I had to reply because I am sick and tired of you and I have never hated and loathed a troll as much as I hated you. You are NOT Black. You are a White troll who lives in the trailer park and molests his cousins and wants approval from Black commenters on here so you say you are Black. Well it isn’t working because I spotted your lying, trifling behind from a mile away.
Truth is, no one cares about your opinions! I hope you get the message too.
@Sondis
Thanks. I am actually for Black unity. People like Charles stir up trouble and cause division. He is merely an onlooker who is looking from approval from Blacks on here. Thank God he isn’t getting any approval from us! I don’t kiss White ass.
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mstoogood4yall:
You notice that white people, speak good thinks about a dead black person but not one that’s alive? LMFAOO
Its because the dead black person is no longer a threat! that’s how they treated Martin Luther king Jr.
when he was alive, he was the most hated man in America, now he’s white America’s magical negro to quote to black people, when they want to, “manipulate” us into being, “calm”.
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Adeen:
That’a girl, you tell em! ^_^
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And i always have to ask why would they put Mlk out as the front man for the issue of racism and give him a day. what abour Marcus Garvey, and Malcolm x? oh that’s right they were too radical. Why did they put the black panthers on terrorist list but not the kkk? See i don’t trust these ppl they make up who is the enemy and who isn’t,yet they kill the ppl they later say are allies and were good how does that make sense? It doesn’t they put put who is friend and who is foe, and that changes all the time. How is it Assatua Shakur is a terrorist but ppl who have killed dozens of ppl on us soil are not? yet she kills one person and its terrorism not murder? when is killing a cop a terrorist act?
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@Adeen
“I hate you and want you out of here”
No need to be so rude, seriously.
“who like to malign my opinion”
Yet you can with my race and my opinion?
I don’t know what you even mean by that, you have been making harsh and false accusations towards me when all I’ve done is state my opinion. Like I said. I don’t need to be black to get your dis/approval.
“Truth is, no one cares about your opinions!”
And they care about yours? No one has to. I’m just stating mines hoping to have a civil discussion, but sadly couldn’t get one.
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@Charles…stop attacking people! We come to abagond to learn, discuss, and grow! If ure a troll just leave, or I’ll report you…if u try to attack others, and accuse of them of racism for distrusting whites…do u think whites are trustworthy ppl
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@ sondis
YEah they do speak good about the dead blacks. smh. U see how they doing Nelson Mandela, he was a threat so they locked him away all those years, now that he old and close to death they now recognize how great he is. smh. Like trojanpam has said they will not promote a black person who is really against white supremacy and for black ppl, we will never have a black president for us nor will we see ppl like umar johnson be promoted by whites because he stands for everything they stand to lose if he succeeds.
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@Charles
I still hate you. Go to hell. You are NOT Black. Prove to me you are a Black man?
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Charles
“I do no such thing. I only say I’m black to avoid being falsely accused, if you all were somehow able to confirm my race you wouldn’t find my arguments more credible, you’d just call me a self hater(as if you’d know that). Me being black doesn’t make what I say more or less true. I just wanted to avoid misconceptions.”
“Any black person on the Internet that doesn’t eat up the racial rhetoric in the black community is a troll. That’s logical. I’d like to think I know my own race more than you. Why would I need to pretend to be black? Apparently that doesn’t give more credibility to my claims.”
You really gave yourself away, WHITE TROLL! So you only said you were black, so that we could see you we’re credible, well guess what, OBAMA IS BLACK TOO AND HE DIDN’T DO SHIT FOR ME! YET I SHOULD LISTEN TO?! 😂Looool
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mstoogood4yall:
Yep, that’s for sure……..
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TOronto girl is that u?
Whats up with the Mrs. i know u not married,,, wait are u? shoot how can someone younger than me be married before me wtf is the world coming to
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*to you?! Hahahahahahahaaaa
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@ Adeen
Now now adeen its not good to say go to he11. U are in timeout, no don’t u hit mommy, don’t make me call supernanny because lord knows i don’t know how to control my own kids. * in my parent voice*
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@Mrs. Ocean-Graham (Toronto girl)
Excuse me? I’ve been rude? People have been accussed of being a self hater, white, a troll and been told that people hate me yet I’m being disrespectful?
Will you report adeen for accusing me of white and saying she hates me?
“do u think whites are trustworthy ppl”
Some, not all of course.
“accuse of them of racism for distrusting whites
I’m not accusing anyone of anything that isn’t true. Adeen said herself she doesn’t trust whites. It isn’t accusation, it’s the truth.
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Lol mstoogood4yall! You’re so funny!! :)) ESP. The first comment u made on the post! No it’s a combination of Drake and Frank Oceans last names… 😉
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Oh torontogirl did u elope with drake, cuz his last name is graham and he from canada, canadian bacon lol
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What so did Drake and Frank tie the knot? dang i knew frank was gay but drake, Lord why? I wanted that fine hunk of canadian bacon
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Canadian Supremacy! Lol, we’ll be expecting a little bieber in the fall looool
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mstoogood4yall:
@ : o O ) >
Adeen:
Don’t allow this white troll, known as Charles, get you upset. Its not worth it, just ignore him and don’t respond to his posts.
I rarely, if ever respond, directly to most white people on this blog, being i know their purpose for being on here.
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Lol, no frank ocean’s more of a side dish…don’t tell drake tho! You know how he gets…
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I apologize Charles, you’re right you didn’t say anything mean…I haven’t read all the comments…everyone has the right to participate…sorry
@Adeen calm down, girl! No ones killing you! Lol
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@ torontogirl
Rofl. Yeah drake gonna be throwing them champagne bottles. oh heck naw don’t u deliver a bieber don’t u do it, u need to get a refund tell the doctor it aint yours
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No problem. I was never trying to start a fight, just a discussion. But if no one is willing do that I can move on.
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i think frank may be a side dish for drake too and not just u. u can thank him later bahbaha
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say hi to jorbia, deepkchocolate, and churchs for me.
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ROTFL! It’s too late Drake won’t let me…
You know he already has Trust Issues…he wants to name him Justinaaliyah Started-from-the-bottom-now-I-have-Trust-Issues Graham
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BAHAHHAHA. Naw his name is started-from-degrassi-now-i’m-here-thinks-he’s-hard-but-is-softer-than-angel soft-tissue graham
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[…] What did race have to do with the George Zimmerman case in America? George Zimmerman, a half-white, half-Latino man who gets a bloody nose and a few scratches on his head, shoots dead Trayvon Marti… […]
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Hahahahahahahahaaaa! Got ’em!! And Drake doesn’t like Frank, drake doesn’t like having new friends, remember? He keeps me up in a castle, he has pictures of Aaliyah all over the bedroom…other ppl have a pet dog, we have an owl…that sings the degrassi theme song…
That’s true, he’s starting to act like he’s a thug, plz help me convince him, that he needs therapy? What’s the diagnosis? Obsession with dead women, and social anxiety disorder, not able to make new friends…c’mon help me!
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Alright i’ll help u, pass that canadian bacon over here i’ll take care of it *wink* rofl. Ok girl its time for me to go to bed see u tomorrow.
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Lol good night! 🙂 drakes mine btw
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^ whatever
I’m just saying u can do better [in my drake voice]
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But once you find the best, you won’t find better! 😛
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YEah but i’m the best he’s ever had
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@Charles
Honestly I felt bad for saying I hate you. I hate trolls that is all. I apologize to you. I am just angry at the verdict, that is all. I am angry Zimmerman went free. he should be in jail. I had no right taking it out on anyone on here.
I do disagree with your views on Whites though. I don’t see why many Whites were happy to see Zimmerman go free.
@Everyone expect Charles
I love you all. I hope you guys don’t hate me. I am just extremely angry at that verdict! Zimmerman’s fat ass should be in prison.
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Drake says that to everyone! But he says I’m his Aaliyah…and Aaliyah means the most exalted
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@Adeen.i don’t agree with part of the verdict either, but I’m not a troll. Many whites were glad GZ is free, but as the internet shows a lot of them are just genuine racists. I’m not happy or angry about the verdict I just feel things could’ve gone better.
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@Charles
I am not all bad but I have experienced so much racism online more so than in person. Many Whites would say things to me online that they wouldn’t say in person. And it angered me how many Whites took his side. I was convinced most Whites were on Zimmerman’s side.
I feel like what they say online is how they really feel and I get scared.
I apologize to you, but I am still angry at that verdict and the Whites who sided with Zimmerman. After all, you are an adult and I am 17.
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@Charles
Oh I see. I apologize to you. You were a gentlemen the whole way though. And I don’t want to turn into the thing that I hated. I hate racism and racists and I don’t want to turn into a racist at all.
You were right all along. I am not happy about he verdict either.
It would be nice if you could give me some tips on handling racism.
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@Adeen I’m so sorry for all your troubles. I’m 19 and have had a sheltered life so I have never personally experienced racism to my knowledge.
And any online racism I see I just brush it off. I don’t confront them I don’t say anything, because they are just cowards and hateful people and I don’t bother with such people. I just roll my eyes because everybody already hates them.
The only thing i can say is just ignore them, because they are likely just trolls or cowards who don’t matter.
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Reblogged this on Setting the Record STR8.
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I had so much to say, but I think it would derail the thread somewhat. Maybe in another thread.
I generally disagree with most of the sentiments expressed on this blog’s posts, but anyone with sense has to see that profiling was a part of the case.
That kid did not deserve to die, even if he did make the foolish choice to go back and confront someone. Unfortunately, our laws are often not flexible enough to deal with situations like the one in which Martin was gunned down.
The prosecution should have aimed for manslaughter. He would have been convicted had that been the emphasis from the beginning.
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I think manslaughter would have been a good charge as well but first degree murder was more like it for me. Zimmerman should have gone to jail for what he did. Trayvon didn’t deserve to die. There would have been different reactions if Trayvon was White. Anyone agree?
I am so angered by the verdict. I shouldn’t have taken it out on anybody online or in person, which I did and I regret.
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@Jefe,
Oh no, the white woman juror started crying in the interview.
Why do they do that? It is almost like they do it on cue.
See:
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But the white women love us!!! They’re such tender snowbunnies!! Don’t you watch Tommy Sotomayor and interracial porn?
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Satanforce, please go back to sleep.
Smh
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Certainly there are tragedies happening all around us, including parents losing children to all manner of circumstances: drunk drivers, illness, etc. Can one quantify the grief of a parent’s loss based on cause?
At the same time, some tragedies tend to galvanize the nation because the facts resonate with so many quotidian lives. The dude in your dorm, the guy you party with on weekends, turns out to be a cold-blooded monster who shreds innocent strangers with a bomb. Really? That happened? Who else in the dorm is planning mass murder? The bus driver down the street, the one who always has a hearty “hello” for everybody in the neighborhood, it turns out that for 10 years he kept three girls locked up as sex slaves. Really? Can anybody know what goes on behind closed doors? The loser single father walks into the home of his young daughters, plays with them for a while as they adore him and share their latest joys with him, then calmly slits their throats. A father! The horror!
The Trayvon Martin matter is one such, for several reasons. The first is the vigilante element. A random stranger is walking lawfully along a public sidewalk, minding his own business. Meanwhile, a private citizen arms himself, his head filled with dreams of vigilante glory. The citizen is a wannabe cop. He takes some classes at the community college but he is too fat and cowardly to actually make the force. Thus, he instead fashions himself as a sort of unofficial neighborhood Batman. He has already once tasted the saccharine of faux glory when he flushed out a possible burglar and was effusively thanked by a neighbor. With dreams of even more “good doggies” from his neighbors, the citizen cruises the neighborhood looking for trouble. Spying our random stranger, the armed citizen voluntarily undertakes to confront the random stranger on the sidewalk based on a false suspicion that the stranger may be contemplating some sort of wrongdoing (“Hmm, why on earth would citizen form that suspicion?”). The confrontation escalates, and the citizen shoots the stranger through the heart.
This set of facts should not exist without criminal culpability on the part of the citizen, no matter who escalated the confrontation. For any parent, the thought of losing a son to a vigilante in this manner is an unspeakable horror. It doesn’t help that Zimmerman is a soft, flabby loser, a man who never held a regular job. He was not man enough to finish what he started, and he presents now as a sniveling cur who cowers in hiding, whining pathetically about how his life is “permanently changed”.
The second is the racial element, which exists at three levels: (a) Zimmerman’s decision to confront Martin (Zimmerman’s own statements in the 911 calls suggest this conclusion); (b) the softball investigation by the police, apparently tailored to conclude that Zimmerman was justified; and (c) the Florida jury’s decision to infer from circumstantial evidence that Zimmerman’s use of deadly force was justified, which inference required the jury to conclude, in the absence of percipient witness testimony or other direct evidence, that Martin was in fact in the process of seriously assaulting Zimmerman, an inference that many believe to be based on a stereotype of black men as thugs. This third element is particularly troubling because of the many holes and inconsistencies in Zimmerman’s several police statements. Nobody except Zimmerman (who was not man enough to testify) knows for sure whether Martin was actually a berserker who was about to beat Zimmerman to death or whether Martin simply administered a well deserved dollop of whuppas and was in the process of standing off when shot. To justify a not guilty, the jury had to conclude the former, which conclusion seems improbable (query how Zimmerman would have been able to unholster his weapon, cock it, aim it, and shoot it, all of which required the use of his arms, if he was in the meantime being pummeled), leading to a conclusion that the crackers on the jury simply felt that Martin “needed killing”.
This sense is certainly echoed throughout the conservative blogosphere and twittersphere, where multiple commentators have uttered statements along the lines of: “Martin was a thug who got what he deserved”. In other words, there is a sizeable outspoken element of conservative America that believes that Martin “needed killing”. Many of these commentators are people I know personally. 100% of them are white. Yet even taking the worst tidbits of information that we know about Martin’s personal life, is he really that different from you and me? He got high. He got in some fights. He chased the punani. Every teenage boy in my circle of friends when I was growing up did all of those things. Many of my teenage acquaintances did far worse. Did we also need killing?
At the end of the day, there is a sense of injustice at every level of the matter, a sense that is heightened by comparison to cases like the Trevor Dooley matter. Look it up. There, a private citizen armed himself and undertook to confront a stranger whom the citizen believed may have been involved in wrongdoing. Then, a third party, not part of the confrontation, inserted himself into the confrontation and physically attacked the armed citizen. The armed citizen was a slight 72-year old man. The attacking third party was a beefy former soldier around age 40. The armed citizen shot the attacking third party after poking him several times with his weapon as a warning. The armed citizen was convicted of manslaughter by a Florida jury and sentenced to 8 years in prison. The armed citizen was black; the attacking third party white. The racial message from Florida could not be more stark.
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The white female juror interviewed by Anderson Cooper seemed so lowbrow yet she had all of these stereotypes about black people. There was a total disconnect.
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Yes! She even had the testimony confused. She thinks GZ’s friends testimony was the medical examiners testimony. She even admitted she was confused about the evidence, but somehow she just knows Trayvon attacked George.
She could barely put two sentences together, but she felt sorry for Rachel. She said she believed Rachel when she said something negative about Trayvon, calling Zimmerman a cracker, but she didn’t find the rest of her testimony credible. It’s amazing.
Also when she says she didn’t find Trayvon’s use of “cracker” as racial because that’s just how “they” live.
The poignant part of her interview comes when she says because of Stand your Ground GZ wasn’t guilty. What? I thought this wasn’t a Stand Your Ground case.
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When it comes to race, whites can’t be trusted. They can take their opinions and shove them quite deep up their own pink-skinned asses.
It’s that simple. Black people must wake up and realize this before they enslave us again or put us all in some sort of camp.
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This is the most damning part. It’s a tactic straight from the white supremacist playbook.
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If I were a young Black male, I would be so scared right now. It disturbs me to think that I might one day have a son who looks Black enough to be murdered for no good reason – in the twenty-first century! What the fuck, America? I guess I am naive, but I kept hoping that they could find a way to declare Zimmerman guilty. We know that he had a gun, and Trayvon didn’t! How could that ever be a fair fight? Also, since when is a sidewalk a weapon? I just feel like the courts should be more fair than to let such a crazy man back on the streets. How many more grieving families do we need? My heart goes out to the Martins and to all the Black families in this messed-up country.
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You raise a good point, Blanc2 , about what if Zimmerman shot Martin after he might have gotten the drop on him…Zimmerman makes it seem like Martin said something like “you got me , homie” after he got shot, what could have happened is , conveniantly twisting it to benafit his story, Zimmerman got his gun out on Martin and Martin might have said ,”you got me…” or something like that, and Zimmerman might have shot him then, out of spite…ok , big speculation, but,there is something manipulated in Zimmerman’s story of what happened..
Still, the most telling thing for me is , Zimmerman never identified himself…the first words out of his mouth should have been “Excuse me, Im neighborhood watch”…Martin was on his phone as he confronted Zimmerman…he obvously wasnt in wait to attack…and its a fact that there was some diologue between Martin and Zimmerman right at that moment… that indicates to me, he was looking for confrontation with Martin…he was more intent on that than identifying himself as neighborhood watch
Does anyone think Martin would have reacted aggresivly if Zimmerman would have anounced that? Martin didnt know who the heck it was and was expressing that to the person he was talking to
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I agree with that I can’t figure out why it is somehow ok to kill trayvon but not to call him the n word (not that its okay)but damn that was his life idk I think they put white women on the jury becuse at jury selection”they were the most impartial”to the defense attorneys so clearly that was a bad deal.
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Abagond, could you please do a post on what Black children and Black teenagers are supposed to do when confronted by whites (or white identified biracials such as Zimmerman). You know since apparently unarmed Blacks don’t have the right to defendt themselves. If you have already addressed this issue, then by all means ignore my suggestion.
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@B. R.
You make an interesting point. A lot of what Zimmerman says just does not add up. That coupled with the fact that the prosecution did not even try.
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And why are people threatened by Black teenagers in the first place? Especially Black males. I am one but I am a Black female. I think Zimmerman’s fear of Trayvon led him to killing him. Sadly but these people on Facebook came up on me and defended Zimmerman and crap like that. If he was White, they would have been crying out for justice. Such hypocrites.
I am a young, Black female and I am scared to come out of my home. I live in Florida too. I want to move back to my homestate of NY. NY is no where near perfect but I know it is better than living where I am living,
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@ solesearch
“She said she believed Rachel when she said something negative about Trayvon, calling Zimmerman a cracker, but she didn’t find the rest of her testimony credible. ”
Yep that is how they do. They think a black person is only truthful when they talking about other black people and the negative things they’ve done, but discredit what they say about the black person being good. If a black person throws another black person under the bus they pat that person on the back and treat them as if they are the expert on how black ppl are. If a black person says something positive about black people, oh no they are biased they just saying that cuz they black. smh. it is why they had a white female jury or why they always have a white jury when it comes to convicting a black person but u never see an all black jury to convict a white person. WE are not trustworthy because omg black ppl can’t separate race and racism from facts, but white ppl can , their history proves how unbiased they are. like slavery they were the ones to come up with the idea of enslaving ppl based on race, which is another thing they created, race. just wow
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@Satanforce
You make me laugh. White women don’t love Black men. Many fetishize over Black males and are sexually attracted to them. Only a small segment of White women in America actually like Black men. Love them? Nope. They only serve for the interests of White males, as demonstrated in this trial. I don’t know what it would take for Black males like you to wake up but you are blindsided by your fetish for White women. The average White women doesn’t care about Black men. I rarely see them march when Black males get in problem. This case should have told you that. If not, you are lost beyond redemption.
And most White females prefer White men. Many White women are racist just like White men in this country. Black men like you see White men as competition and date White women to prove that you are on a equal footing as they are. No matter what you do, you will never have the power that White men have in this country.
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@ Mochasister
I too wondered what black people should do when confronted by whites are how to be the perfect victim
1. don’t be black
2. dress professionally
3. don’t curse
4. keep ur hands where they see them
5. answer questions they ask and have ur slave pass ready
6. tell them where u are going, give them ur name,address, phone number, and social security number so they can do a background check and see if you’ve been a good negro or not
7. speak politely and say yes sir
8. if they put their hands on u don’t fight back, don’t want to get a cut or blood on ur knuckles that way they know u weren’t aggressive.
9. if u can yell scream and say ur name that way they can’t say it was them
10. if u make it out alive praise white jesus
11. You probably will go to prison anyway for something they will find something eventually
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Instead of asking what black teenagers should do when treated like criminals we should ask what black adults should be doing to fight for the rights of their children.
If there is a black organization in your area you should join it and encourage all the black people you know to do the same.
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Well, from “Planet of the Apes”, to “Dejango Unchained” to, the new Tanto and Lone Ranger movie and this…lol.
Do you think Hollywood is trying to tell us something? :
12 Years A Slave TRAILER 1 (2013) – Chiwetel Ejiofor, Brad Pitt Movie HD
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@ Peanut
That is America in one sentence.
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@ Jefe
I do not know if the picture is Photoshopped. It is a common picture of Trayvon Martin.
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@ GOldfire
Wow i never heard about this movie or the story behind it. I will not be watching that movie and i hope others do the same. They are trying to profit off our history yet they don’t even tell it straight and unfiltered. They are definitely trying to tell us something, all we see is slave movies and now they doing all this stuff. getting rid of vra letting someone off for murder, and are now going for affirmative action and building more prisons but closing schools. Yeah its time to wake all the way up.
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This is perfect. Concise and well said. The number of people who deny race being a factor in this case are shocking*. Just wrote about white supremacy and Trayvon.
http://www.illiterat.com
*not really
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Missing from the discussion is the impact of race on the post-verdict period.
There are two main groups that seem to be receiving the largest amount of attention:
1. Experts in criminal law who almost universally claim that a non-guilty verdict in this case was justified due to the limited amount of evidence available to prosecutors.
2. Politicians and “activists” who claim that the verdict is evidence of ongoing injustice and racism.
For those whose beliefs more closely match #2, how do you explain the difference between your views and those who are well versed in the law?
Have you considered the possibility that the politicians and activists promoting idea #2 are doing so in a self-serving manner, and may be either ignorant of the law or else deliberately engaging in demagogic populism to advance their own careers?
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@solesearch
Exactly
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@ Randy
Who gives a sh*t about #1 or #2. From a legal stand point there was not enough evidence so what, but it does not change the fact that juror members seem to harbor some negative stereotypes about Martin. Enough to even ignore the testimony of Rachel and possibly others.
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@mrstoogood4yall,
I responded on the Nadir thread 🙂
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Randy,
That’s a pretty specious statement.
1. Which experts claim this? Which don’t? How did you come to this conclusion? Internet racists almost universally claim experts almost universally claim whatever they want.
2. The prosecution would have better evidence if the murder of Trayvon Martin had been treated as a crime and fully investigated by local authorities. That’s what started the outcry from the American people. The accusations of racism began then, not after the verdict.
3. Politicians and activist claim the Stand Your Ground law, which is what got GZ off, is racially motivated, unfairly applied, and just down-right wrong.
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@ solesearch
Bingo! You are on fire. 🙂
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Hey Abdeen how about blacks letting off OJ simpson because he was black? They were racist. All the evidence pointed to OJ being guilty.
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GoldFire, looks like a good movie.
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@ Randy
Have you considered the possibility that you are a shill for a racist status quo?
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Abagond, what do you think about my idea that this may be a sign of things to come, where Hispanics and Blacks are played against one another while Whites rule with ‘good’ Asians acting as a buffer between them and other races?
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Jay:
First off, OJ didn’t get off!
They got him in the end. They was gunning for him, ever since he was acquitted.
Second, Casey Anthony was found not guilty and everything pointed to her, being guilty.
I never saw white people, “gunning” for her, like they did with OJ, nobody tried to set her up, like they setup OJ to “steal” his own property and he didn’t even have a gun, his white subjects had the gun.
How suspicious are those circumstances?
Third, Trevon Martin was on trial, not George Zimmerman, being the whole time, the defense kept on painting Trevon as a aggressive thug that smoked pot and was high that night, therefore provoked Zimmerman into a fight.
So this came down to the prosecution, trying to pain Treyvon as a innocent teenage boy, instead of Zimmerman as a vigilante killer.
So please, stop trying to defect by comparing the OJ trial to the Zimmerman trial.
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Sharina, thank you. Randy is so predictably racist, I probably shouldn’t respond.
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Sondis
“the defense kept on painting Trevon as a aggressive thug that smoked pot and was high that night, therefore provoked Zimmerman into a fight.”
Yeah and the crazy thing is if they tried to make it seem pot made him aggressive, then excuse me why in the he11 are they trying to make it legal? Oh so i guess its ok for white teens to smoke pot they are just having fun and experimenting and will get the munchies. But a black teen does it an oh my goodness it brings out the hulk in him, Like i said different set of rules for certain people, yet they stay lying and saying oh we are all human and every man is created equal, really? well if we are all human and equal why is it they try to make it seem pot makes black ppl go into hulk mode while it makes them peaceful hippies, if we are human and equal then pot would affect us in the same way.
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^thank you!
And the nerve to tell us to be colourblind too! Are we dogs?
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^ no we are not dogs, we look better and smell better and we don’t bite 😉
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Did you see the show on YouTube? Where they have kid contestants, and two have to convince the rest that the Spanish guy should go cuz he’s Mexican…whenever the white kids agreed as soon as they found out it was a show, they started crying and saying we’re not racist…and then we end up sympathizing with them so they can feel better instead of the mexican guy…most of them were ww too…did abagond do a post on racist ww, white female privilege and crying?
They always try to provoke the african girls in my school by shoving them, stepping all over them and then playing innocent…it never works though, but I see this a lot
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Again with the OJ. I have no idea the specifics of that case at all and all I hear is OJ got off blah blah blah.
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@Mrs.Ocean-Graham (TorontoGirl)
That might fall in line with white woman’s tears, but very good point.
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@mstoogood4yall
“we don’t bite”—Sometimes depends on the situation. LOL
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@OJ
I am only 17/18. I was just a baby when OJ was acquitted in 1995. I wouldn’t give you an exact answer to that because I don’t know anything about the case. Why did you even come on here?
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@ sharina
U right now some will bite especially if they on them zombie bath salts lol
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@ torntogirl aka man stealer
Um abagond did a post called white womens tears
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“They always try to provoke the african girls in my school by shoving them, stepping all over them and then playing innocent…it never works though, but I see this a lot”
Hmm well then they should accidentally drop some books on their foot and say oh my goodness im such butterfingers lol. we gotta beat them at their own game.
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Man Stealer? You can’t steal a person, Drake has a mind of his own and he CHOSE ME! (Pika Pika-chuuuuu <3)
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whatever we will finish this in open thread….. to be continued
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Why is my comment in moderation…cuz I said ‘stupid’
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Lol, the African girls just shove them back, and they don’t try it again…I’ve started stepping on their toes lol…
We were all rushing to go back to the bus (like hundreds of students) and the Russians always cut lines and they’ll smile at the bus guy and hell let them go through…but not the Africans pisses me off…so one time this african just pulled the Russian girls hair back…she kept trying to run away, they wouldn’t let her, it was so funny…then everyone basically runs over her to get in the bus…
The bus guys are kinda racist…the Russians will come the latest and end up at the front of the line and they’ll let them but with Africans they’re always pushing us back and I wasn’t even moving the guy was pushing me back with his elbow on my neck…I was so psssed off that day…do u think its racism? Or just a coincidence? When the bus monitor isn’t white, like Arab or black student this doesn’t happen but when it’s a white adult it always does…I just gave the bus monitor the eye and didn’t even look at him, that man!
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toronto girl go to open thread i left u a comment
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Ok, let me find it
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its at the top of the page look at the tab on top that says open thread
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Peanut:
“She is blind to the privlege of being able to walk in a neighborhood and not be assumed to be starting trouble and she is blind to the fact that had she been pursued by someone and defended herself or called police, there would be no question that she was the victim. ”
You guys are dropping too much truth. That shouldn’t be a privilege. But they have created a situation where even the mundane is a ‘white privilege’.
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Honestly, I don’t think White people are clueless or ignorant about racism at all. I really don’t.
I think the problem is that they’ve radically changed how they practice and display their racism. It used to be that they were in your face about how they felt about Black people. After the Civil Rights movement and the push for “political correctness”, all this talk about, “Oh, I don’t see race”, pops up.
But despite all the “Colorblind” talk, Black people are still going through the same oppression we’ve always been going through.
The myth of White ignorance really needs to die. White people have family, friends, and strangers to remind them of what it means to be White and how they are expected to relate to non-white people. The notion of ignorance can also be used as an excuse, so I refuse to use that term.
I doubt anybody would argue Adolf Hitler and the Nazis were ignorant about what they did the Jews, but White racism against Blacks is frequently seen as an act of “ignorance”. I find that very telling.
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[…] produced a textbook piece containing all that’s wrong with the thinking of the race […]
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First off, I think Jay is none other than Jay From Philly. So, it’s best to leave him alone so he can go to his corner and cry.
Second, I think it’s too easy to think that whitewashed people (not just whites as there are POC who also believed that Trayvon was guilty for being black) are clueless as to what racism is, all of them at least. There are whitewashed people who know, but don’t care. Some know but they don’t want to be called racist. And some are just proud of being racist A-holes.
I’ve learn that when you stand up for black youth, whitewashed people consider it as an annoyance, at least, especially if the killer is nonblack or white. The first thing they bring up is black-on-black crime as if black people haven’t done anything to fight it. And they don’t hesitate in throwing in black-on-white crime into the mix, anything to avoid any instance of interracial crime if the victim was black, but if the races were switched, then it’s an issue with them. SMH.
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OJ’s jusy was all women, mostly black. Zimmerman’s jury was all women, all white. It obvious prosecuters need to have men on juries to defer the motherlies instinct to protect their own.
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Sharina:
Thousands, if not millions of people, do seem to care. There are protests, riots, and reports of retributive violence.
solesearch:
You’re free to survey the landscape and report your own observations. I’m guessing you’d arrive at the same one that I did.
solesearch:
My comment is strictly referencing the verdict-inspired diagnoses of racism, of which there have been many instances.
solesearch:
Zimmerman did not actually invoke the “stand your ground” justification during the trial.
Abagond:
I have nothing to sell, no career to advance.
The paradigm of this conversation is one where a majority of technical experts with no direct interest in the case weighing in on a technical matter and coming to one conclusion, and people without such technical knowledge or those with a direct interest and agenda coming to another conclusion.
Don’t you think it’s valuable and important for members of the latter cohort to scrutinize their beliefs in that type of situation?
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“I officially think George Zimmerman is psychotic. He’s a lunatic.”
I truly believe there is something not quite right with him. I think there’s a screw or two loose. I reread a post on his past and George definitely has some issues with violence. I only wish that his father and mother had not used their connections to get their son off. Maybe if they had allowed George to suffer the consequences of his poor judgment and decisions he might have been forced to change his behavior. And perhaps Trayvon would still be alive. I read that the authorities will be returning his gun to him. I would not be surprised if we hear about George again in the future. I don’t think he’s learned anything from this situation and truly believes he is the victim. I hate to say it but I think he will kill again.
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George may use his gun again. And of couse he will be standing his ground protecting himself. His mummy and daddy must be so proud of the monster they created. But there is such a thing as karma.
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@ peanut & mochasister
Yes zimmerman is psychotic http://www.mstarz.com/articles/16256/20130714/george-zimmerman-verdict-not-guilty-child-molestation-accusations-arise-trayvon-martin-murder-trial-brutal-sexual-assault-charges-not-relevant-case-testimony-listen.htm
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Putting the white juror on CNN certainly enraged things, but that is good. It exposed a tremendous flaw in the jury. Then 4 other jurors had to issue a statement that it was her own opinion and not theirs.
I do hope that it becomes an Emmett Till / Vincent Chin moment, and stop the downward spiral of the 1980s – 2010s period. People will look back at this 50 years from now as the Trayvon Martin incident. But alas, this is only wishful thinking.
But George Zimmerman will never be able to exonerate himself. He will have to hire bodyguards, maybe even leave the USA. People may try to kill him. He will get too fat and have a heart attack.
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@jefe: LOL! “People may try to kill him. He will get too fat and have a heart attack. Karma is witch. LOL! That made my evening. LOLLLL!
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“OJ’s jusy was all women, mostly black. Zimmerman’s jury was all women, all white. It obvious prosecuters need to have men on juries to defer the motherlies instinct to protect their own.”
– – –
So, when prospective jurors were being interviewed for the Zimmerman trial, it was decided somewhere along the way that a bunch of American white women would more than likely exhibit motherly instincts towards a man who doesn’t actually look white and who, IMO, appears more indigenous than he does anything else (eyes, hair, facial shape / features, his light brown skin tone etc)?! Is that correct?!
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They knew what they were doing from beginning to end. This was so calculated.
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“He will have to hire bodyguards, maybe even leave the USA.”
Maybe George and Casey Anthony should go halfsies on a plane ticket to Peru! I think their futures are pretty bleak if they stay here.
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@Abagond I’m going to ask you a personal question so I’d like to get your permission first. It has to do with the aftermath of the case.
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@Mary Burrell
Yes, I believe that he will reap what he sows. He may have been laughing in the courtroom, but I don’t think the rest of his life will be easy. I know many people are angry and don’t want to hear about the Lord meting out justice, but I truly believe that He is the only way George will be judged.
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Mochasister:
Hello ^_^
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The nerve of George Zimmerman bellyaching about his life being “permanently changed” as if blame for that fact lies anywhere other than on himself.
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Just FYI for everyone
I read on another site that their is a group black professional marketing and PR people used twitter to help shut down juror B37’s book deal.
http://www.theroot.com/blogs/grapevine/juror-b37-gets-shut-down-online?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+TheRootRssFeed+(TheRoot+RSS+Feed)
They said that they will make it their mission to make sure that none of those jurors or any other witness gets to profit from this Case.
I think this current generation of black Americans are educated and tech savvy enough to use and utilize the strengths that many young, black professionals can bring to the table — such as their economic voices — the same way they used their collective voices and Votes to help Obama.
The white conservatives and racists didn’t see the Election coming (don’t know how they missed it) and with this Case, I hope they realized that this verdict just woke up the sleeping giant.
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Stevie Wonder is boycotting the state of Florida,until SYG law is abolished.
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I am not sure if these are even her words or not, being she is reading then and speaking these out loud but none the less, they are courageous words by a young, white female.
America needs more white people like this, that not only thinks this way but actually “acts” this way.
Its not enough for white people to just think in a none racist way but to be, proactive by shutting down friends or family, that make racist jokes and think its OK, because its the norm.
Watch the short video clip, below.
( http://youtu.be/TBRwiuJ8K7w )
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Racial bias in the American justice system according to The Economist:
Juries: Blacks are more likely (by 16 percentage points) to be found guilty by an all-white jury than are white defendants. One black juror is enough to remove the racial bias.
The police: much more racially biased than juries. For example, they are 2.5 times more likely to see a white-on-black killing as “justifiable” than a white-on-white killing. In Stand Your Ground states like Florida that jumps to 3.5.
More:
http://www.economist.com/blogs/democracyinamerica/2013/07/trayvon-martin-case
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Indeed, we know this, but what can we do about it?
Affirmative action for juries? Every jury must have at least 1 black, 1 Asian, 1 Hispanic, 1 woman, 1 man, whites may not exceed 50%, etc. etc. etc.
or is it the judicial system that is faulty?
the laws are weird too.
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@Sondis
Thank you for sharing that clip of the young woman with us. I appreciate her for saying those words. I will pray for her safety and that the Lord would keep her strong because she will need it. My mother has often told me that God has people in all races that are willing to stand for what is right. She used to tell me “even white people. ” in light of these last few days it has been very hard for me to believe that. I know that you have heard and read the ugly comments that (far too) many in the white community have been expressing about
Trayvon and the verdict. My heart has been hurt and filled with anger (and some hate I’m ashamed to say.) upon reading these ugly and downright demonic comments. White people like this young woman give me hope. Perhaps some in the white community will listen to her; God knows they don’t listen to POC. I just hope they don’t hurt her or her family. White people tend to be quite vicious towards other whites who air their dirty laundry so to speak. Whites who have tried to stand for justice for POC have been punished for their views.
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Just read the Economist article. and the one before it.
Just completely dismal.
The author acknowledges racism had to be an element, but there is no hint of a solution to the problem. He feels that a stricter legal system would even be more discriminatory to those least able to defend themselves. And the removal of a trial by jury system would do little to end racial discrimination. So where do we go from here?
America is still the Wild Wild west and innocent pedestrians are viewed as escaped fugitives (those punks always get away).
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@ Linda
Juror B37 is troubling to say the least. I think it’s disgusting that this vulture disguised as a human being would dare to profit off of this young man’s death and his family’s pain. I think she had ulterior motives for being on the
jury. I am so glad users of Twitter banded together to pressure the publisher into dropping her book deal. No one has any right to make a buck off Trayvon’s death. How dare she vote to let his murderer go free and then try to turn a buck at the same time. As far as Iam concerned she and the oother jurors basically showed what little value they placed on Trayvon’s life. To try and get a book deal is like another slap in the family’s face.
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@Sondis,
Thanks for sharing that video.
It’s OK to read it. It’s a long message. Even if it is being read, it is a powerful message.
No white women’s tears there!
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What really gets me is that white people seem to often show such a lack of empathy (not all but many seem to lack it) in racist cases like this they cannot blindly see the racism through their white privilege rose tinted glasses, all they see is self-defence on zimmerman’s part. Now what is he defending himself from exactly, a black boy in a hoodie? Being half white I always seem to end up siding with black people in situations like this. In school I got shut down by a white girl for calling out another white girl who said she was walking by a scary black man in her town (this town was 98% white), I asked her why the black man was scary & this other girl took offence. Instead of certain white people being enlightened to their own prejudices they are more offended by someone suggesting racism. I really find that sad.
Also another thing I find interesting about Zimmerman & Treyvon Martin is that the concept of race in this situation. The jury saw zimmerman as a light skin hispanic man & martin as black. Zimmerman has a black great grandma from his peruvian side, but that doesn’t appear to stop Zimmerman from racial profiling & it certainly doesn’t stop the jury in being racially bias towards zimmerman because he looks more like them. I wonder what Zimmerman’s black great-grandma would think about this? I guess she is no longer relavent.
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* black great-grandfather
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In cases involving black people, there should be at least 2 black people on the jury.
That’s not asking to much.
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Jefe, we don’t need to get rid of jury trials.
We need to make the juries representative of the people involved in the cases.
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So we need affirmative action quotas for juries? That is an idea, but how do we do that?
Some cities or counties (eg, Prince George’s county, MD with 900,000 people or Baltimore – 700,000 ppl) are over 2/3 black. Do we need 2/3 black juries? Do we need 80% for Detroit?
Clark County, Washington, a suburban county across the river from Portland, Oregon is 1.7% black. Does that mean that black people are optional there, since both Asians and Latinos each outnumber blacks?
Seminole county, FL, where is GZ was arraigned, is less than 10% black (but over 11% Hispanic). that means that maybe 0 or at most 1 person on the 6 person jury should be black, and maybe 1 Hispanic.
–> actually, the racial ratio for his case is not too far off from the actual demographic composition of the county. How do we implement affirmative action there?
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Its about the lawyers and prosecution picking better jurists….besides most of the jurists were white, they were older women, who probably are more intimidated by crime and therefor would look on a “neighborhood watch guy” as more a protector, they automaticly would be biased in favor of Zimmerman
Along with race as a factor, the racial devide is another factor, both these individuals made derrogatory racial remarks about the other to phone calls they were on (if Zimmermans phrase was not proved a racist term, his whole manner of profiling Martin, and pusuing him and not identifying himself is racist), this was a confrontation that was pre-ordained by prevailing attitudes in society…
And, the ominous spector hanging behind racism and racial devide, is violence culture, gun culture and the anger in young men like them both
I lament to say that Martin had every right to be angry and indignant, unfortunatly acting out on his anger , led to his death, that I blame Zimmerman for
Raising a male child, I find that one of the most intense things to deal with is their anger and how to deal with it .As much as getting in a car drunk with freinds at night, I fear for my son letting his anger get the best of him, and him getting into an altercation that would kill him or maim him or put him in jail for doing harm to someone else
It is one ofm our most talked about issues, and I have to be subtile because he just doesnt want to listen to his father, and you can see him fantacising about getting into an altercation and beating the person up for some perceived wrong doing….and statistics show that the highest death rates for homicides are from something like 15 to age 25…yes 25 and a young man still deals with anger issues and violence as real threats intheir lives to deal with…my son has a great head, and with these talks, I see him making great choices in his life, but, like so many other young males, he is very affected by young male violencew culture
This is Brazil, so , its not just the USA
and both these young men were very much a part of young male anger violent culture, and gun culture with Zimmerman, and they were racialy devided
Again, I blame Zimmerman for the death of Martin, but we live in a culture around the world driven by young male violent anger, and societal racism is in every country that brought slaves from Africa
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OK Abagond I’ll make it a general question. Do you think the fact that people leave out retaliatory attacks in their reporting that they condone these attacks?
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Jefe, in cases that involve black people there should be at least two black people on the jury.
You do that by finding two black people to put on the jury.
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Jimmy Carter:
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@Solesearch
OK.
Should that rule only apply to black people? If the case involves a Korean-American, should there be at least 2 Korean-Americans on the jury? If the case involves a gay couple with children, should the jury include 2 married gay persons who have children? If the victim is muslim, do we need 2 muslims? There are so many types of crimes which might be bias-related. Who is to say which are relevant?
The concept is nice in theory, and seems like it should be simple, but it is not so easy to find a way to put it into practice.
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“Mochasister
@Sondis
Thank you for sharing that clip of the young woman with us. I appreciate her for saying those words. I will pray for her safety and that the Lord would keep her strong because she will need it. My mother has often told me that God has people in all races that are willing to stand for what is right. She used to tell me “even white people. ” in light of these last few days it has been very hard for me to believe that. I know that you have heard and read the ugly comments that (far too) many in the white community have been expressing about
Trayvon and the verdict. My heart has been hurt and filled with anger (and some hate I’m ashamed to say.) upon reading these ugly and downright demonic comments. White people like this young woman give me hope. Perhaps some in the white community will listen to her; God knows they don’t listen to POC. I just hope they don’t hurt her or her family. White people tend to be quite vicious towards other whites who air their dirty laundry so to speak. Whites who have tried to stand for justice for POC have been punished for their views.”
I am sorry, i am not as moved as you are, Mochasister. While i do acknowledge the sentiment for what it was, i am not left with a warm and fuzzy feeling, like you.
Just because one white female, posts a YouTube video saying, “I am not Treyvon Martin” doesn’t change the majority of white people’s racism or black people’s plight in America.
I’ve heard this music before…. Like the civil rights movement for instance, their were some whites, marching along with blacks!
Its nothing new that a very small percent of whites, are against white supremacy, Racism, Racial Discrimination and white privilege.
Blacks have seen these types of well meaning, liberal left whites that preach equality, multiculturalism and diversity but yet, cry foul against programs like, affirmative action for college or employment opportunities.
So lets review shall we? These whites have been a constant in America, yet they haven’t been able to reach a fraction of their white race.
There’s either one of the two going on:
1 They are all talk and no action, just a front to appear none racist to blacks, so they can feel good about themselves ( white liberals on the left ) .
2 These small groups of whites, didn’t anticipate that their own people were so dead set against, maintaining black people’s place at the bottom of society.
I tend to believe the ladder……
I am tired of white people always speaking, nouns and pronouns about black people, I want to hear some verbs!!! ACTION WORDS!!
What are you going to, DO! ( Change the justice system so that it is equal among blacks and other minorities. )
Not just what are you going to, SAY! ( “I am not Treyvon” )
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Here’s my view as a white woman, I agree with everything said in this post. Trayvon was a teenage boy walking home in the rain wearing a hoodie and most importantly, he was black. GZ never would have followed him if he was white. Period. It makes me sick to hear the character assault being forced on him in death if he was a white teenager and this happened people would have chalked all of his troubles before as a good kid being foolish, but he’ll grow out of it and become something great. Everything he did, I did as well, but no one labeled me as a thug or doubted I would grow up and be a responsible adult. GZ knew Trayvon was a teenager and he told the dispatch this.. He KNEW he was a child! He tried and convicted a child of a crime never committed based solely on his race, and he got away with it.
The whole trial was disgusting. GZ knew he had a gun, and he got to live out his perverse dreams of being a cop. Trayvon never had a chance. Not only that, but I would have reacted the same way Trayvon did if someone was following me. He had two options; run or confront the problem. He confronted it. I would have, too.
Not all white people stand by GZ. Not all white woman clutch their purse when a black male walks by. I understand and my heart breaks for Trayvons family and the black community over this travesty.
Also, I don’t know if this has been put out there, but you can text “justice” to 62227 and it will add you to the NAACP petition to bring GZ up on civil rights charges. There is a great article on the American prospect by Jameele Boule
On black on black crime and why it’s so wrong.
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“It’s not a moral question, it’s a legal question and the American law requires that the jury listens to the evidence presented.”
– – –
Yes, and right after they’ve listened to evidence, as “American law requires”, there’s nothing stopping jury members from “voting their hearts” — a phenomenon which doubtlessly occurs a lot more than the public might think — and, in my opinion, one which explains why George Zimmerman is a free man today.
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Wow, I’ve spent tonight reading on the comments here, and they are unacceptable. It makes me sorry I entered this debate. The commentary here is just as vile as the commentary on pro white sites. It seems that anyone that has a differing view is chastised and demonished. The majority of you have no want or need to unite just tear down. The problem with race relations is a shared sentiment. Neither side is able is accept the shared premise of fault and prejudice. I’m thankful that neither side speaks for any majority. Attack away.
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“Camille,
Wow, I’ve spent tonight reading on the comments here, and they are unacceptable. It makes me sorry I entered this debate. The commentary here is just as vile as the commentary on pro white sites.”
Linda says,
Camille, don’t take it personally… what you’re reading is called “Venting”
you picked the Wrong time and the Wrong post to read if you were looking for a “kum-ba-yah” moment.
Most black people on this particular post and Case, are feeling very RAW and Very HURT about this verdict and
because Abagond allows it sometimes, they get to freely Express how the feel on his blog.
On any other given day, depending the post, you will get a variety of different viewpoints (because black people aren’t the Borg) but … this Case /Trial unfortunately, is Very polarizing and it reflects the underbelly of America… an underbelly which this blog tries to expose on a regular basis…
An underbelly which most whites don’t want to see or examine too closely most times because it’s ugly and not fun.
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I thought one was to be judged by a jury of their peers?
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Fiamma:
The “beyond a reasonable doubt” requirement is an essential and fundamental protection and not a technicality like misfiled paperwork, or a confession thrown out due to a lack of proper Miranda advisement.
The design of the criminal justice system intentionally favors the accused. Historically, this innocence-bias has not been shared universally, with the poor and minorities at times lacking the same protection. However, that should be a reason to promote greater innocence-bias, not less.
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Now I’m the one hearing crickets… fuck this.
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[…] What did race have to do with the George Zimmerman case? […]
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Quite amusing, this whole case and the aftermath. I can’t recall many blacks causing a commotion when OJ was found not guilty. But then again, he got what was due to him in the end.
Martin most likely would have been murdered or murdered another black man in the future anyway, so what’s the difference? Black men in the USA kill each other like dogs in the gutters. Maybe you lot should stop typing so much anti white rubbish and start concentrating on cleaning up your neighborhoods.
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A Stanford University Psychologist addresses the Harvard University Law School where she describes several experiments that suggest White males & police officers subconsciously perceive Black Males as criminal and less than human. The results provide evidence of a strong automatic bidirectional association between Blacks & Crime. The image of a Black male can trigger unconscious thoughts of crime and thinking of crime can trigger unconscious thoughts of Black people. The simple presence of a Black Male may unknowingly cause thoughts of crime and violence attributed to that person. Other topics discussed include: Racial Profiling, Suspect Lineups, Death Penalty Sentencing, & the Association with Blacks & Animals.
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7DOrOPdNz3U)
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@ Wayne
1. You are confusing rates with percentages. Or just watching too much television. Although the homicide rate is high, 95% of black men in America do not die of homicide. About half die of heart disease or cancer.
2. Your comment assumes that the human worth of blacks is conditional: ONLY when they are perfect can they expect justice:
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@ dave
That is a vague question. As stated it gets the equally vague answer: It depends.
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@ Camille, you have to understand the frustration why many black people and also half black people like myself are becoming more pro-black and upset/angered by a situation like this is because most of Zimmerman’s supporters are white people, many right wing racists are coming out of the woodwork and we want to fight against their views, but we do still apppreciate that there are also white people who do not agree with the verdict.
Many hispanics like Zimmerman are also against the verdict, but the different is Zimmerman himself identified as a white & hispanic and has a white Jewish father.
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Fiamma:
Yes, and right after they’ve listened to evidence, as “American law requires”, there’s nothing stopping jury members from “voting their hearts” — a phenomenon which doubtlessly occurs a lot more than the public might think — and, in my opinion, one which explains why George Zimmerman is a free man today.
I agree entirely with what you say here – people will justify their responses often to rationalise their own personal irrational beliefs. I raised this on this blog with a commenter, (Randy) on one of the topics recently.
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1. Zimmerman sees Martin walking.
2. Martin has something in his hand
3. Martin turns and sees Zimmerman in his SUV.
4. Martin tells his friend, “some creep is following me.”
5. Zimmerman calls 911 and reports a suspicious person.
6. Dispatcher tell Zimmerman that Police are on the way…not to follow suspect.
7. Zimmerman rejects Dispatcher instructions and follows Martin.
8. Martin runs away.
a. Question: How does an altercation start if the suspect runs away?
9. Zimmerman (claims in court that Martin menaced him by walking around his car, he – Zimmerman has now left his car) continues to follow Martin and confronts him.
b. Question:A strange man, not a Police or other recognizable authority accosts you while you are walking home. What would you do?
10. An altercation ensues and now Zimmerman with a gun, and outweighing Martin by at least 75 pounds and having MMA training begins to get his ass handed to him.
c. Question: What does the coward do as he is getting his ass handed to him by a skinny, Black boy?
11. Zimmerman defends himself after having instigated the incident to begin with. Zimmerman is getting his ass handed to him and he shoots the mad do…I mean he shots Martin in self-defense.
12. Of course he is not guilty of murder or manslaughter. You can’t be guilty of any of those for killing a Black boy or man. The most you could be guilty of is animal abuse.
-If you can’t figure out what is being said here you are in need of lots of psychiatric help.-
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@ Wayne What have Whites done to abate the phenomenon of White boys and men committing mass homicides in our schools,malls,theaters,places of worship and workplaces??? Also you do know the number one victimizer of Whites are other Whites???
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[…] What did race have to do with the George Zimmerman case? […]
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Someone please tell these PinkSkins to come off of this “OJ” bullshit, especially when one of their own PROVED HIS INNOCENCE.
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Trayvon did NOT deserve to be shot and killed by any stretch of the imagination. Zimmerman is a total pussy/dipshit and maybe he was racist but typing in here negative assumptions about EVERY white person on Earth is also racist. Here are some wonderful comments…
“Yes the president is looked at as black but his mind is as white as the woman he came out of.” = Wow…
“I think most white people aren’t taught how NOT to be racist, I think they are taught now not to APPEAR to be racist and how to cover their azz if someone does call them racist…” = Please tell me you don’t honestly believe this? Thats just sad.
“I personally feel like we as blacks know this country’s history, know how the majority of whites think/want to treat blacks, we need to be on our p’s and q’s. It’s scary though how things are working. I also know that when black teens steal a car they are rightfully charged with car theft but when white youths steel a car, strip it of the radio or other and steal from out of it and leave it on the other side of town, cops call it “joyriding”?” = My friend in Detroit was white, stole a car and ended up in PRISON. Doesn’t mean the CJ system isn’t unfair but seriously, white people just steal cars all the time and cops don’t do anything?! My truck was broken into and they stole my CD player a while back, the cops actually found the guy (I know, unbelievable) in a van with a bunch of peoples stereos, he was white AND HE WENT TO JAIL FOR THAT BELIEVE ME. Seriously say this stuff out loud before typing it.
“When it comes to race, whites can’t be trusted. They can take their opinions and shove them quite deep up their own pink-skinned asses.
It’s that simple. Black people must wake up and realize this before they enslave us again or put us all in some sort of camp.” = Honestly I could make fun but this is sad if you truly believe that. I hope that you can find some peace.
We need to realize a kid was killed because AMERICANS are obsessed with guns also. Freaking unite for once, quit finding ways to divide, that is what people in power want. Some of you should be ashamed of yourselves, no one is perfect and we all have our moments of weakness but damn, the internet brings some nasty stuff out of people. You think there are racists out there and you are right, you’re one of them. Congrats, you may have something in common with Zimmerman. You honestly think Dr. Martin Luther King would be ok with some of these comments? He was an inspiration and he was taken from us too soon, another victim of racism and gun violence. We are ALL victims because I believe the world would be a way better place if he was still here. I fear his dream will never totally be realized. Be upset with racism and racists, not assume people you have never met are also racists because they match a certain characteristic. THATS RACISM, duh.
You don’t fix racism by being a racist. Because someone was racist to you doesn’t mean you can now be racist and it doesn’t count. That also makes you a racist, you know, the thing you hate right. Some of the best people I have known were black… and white, yet some of the worst people I’ve known were black… and white. See the trend here. I have sadly met a lot of white people that were racist, and a lot of black people that were also racist, it doesn’t fix anything. Find good people of other colors and work together, be friends, hang out, laugh, go out for drinks or dinner, LIVE, don’t hate, that doesn’t fix anything. There IS good in WHITE and BLACK people, I promise. You want to piss a racist white or black person off??? Hang out with a group of people of different races and have a great time, they will hate it.
Seriously, there are racist people in the world. Do what you can to change that, take one more off the street, that one person is yourself. Don’t let racists make you one yourself. Anger will eat you up inside and you only get one life.
Camille’s comment was spot on “Wow, I’ve spent tonight reading on the comments here, and they are unacceptable. It makes me sorry I entered this debate. The commentary here is just as vile as the commentary on pro white sites. It seems that anyone that has a differing view is chastised and demonished. The majority of you have no want or need to unite just tear down. The problem with race relations is a shared sentiment. Neither side is able is accept the shared premise of fault and prejudice. I’m thankful that neither side speaks for any majority. Attack away.”
What race am I? Pssh, screw that… I’m a disappointed human being.
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@ Who Cares
I wrote a post about your kind of thinking:
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Anybody read this?
http://redyankeepress.blogspot.com/2012/05/zimmerman-gets-little-help-from-cracker.html
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Sorry, good article but I don’t encourage people to not talk, so no definitely not my kind of thinking. I agree that not talking is a bad idea. I was referring to the content of some of the comments and how “constructive” they were. I was encouraging people to spend time together, friends form bonds, and talk a lot actually. Maybe thats where you got the kumbaya thing. It’s just my opinion but I’m thinking friends talk more than total strangers. If spending time with other kinds of people doesn’t sound appealing then thats your choice I guess. I didn’t say you couldn’t talk to them though.
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Wow, I didn’t see this coming from CB
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m6bO3A5bAq8)
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[…] remember there's 100+ million white males in America. Too many to name but here's a nice list: https://abagond.wordpress.com/2013/07…comment-182964 Most mass murderers are male, white, conservative and come from relatively stable, […]
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King,
I love the chuckster but he’s isn’t the one to weight in on these type of issues, i would take his opinion with a grain of salt.
I disagreed with his statement, “blacks can be just as racist as whites”
Specifically the word, “Racist”.
Blacks can be, “prejudice” but not racist.
Racism is prejudice, backed by power, which blacks lack to effect large groups of white people in a oppressive way, which white people possess and use to oppress, masses of blacks and other minorities.
So i disagree with chuck in terms of his claim, that black “racism” is a mirror image of white racism.
Far as his opinion on martin jumping on Zimmerman first, that’s his opinion and not a fact. He is entitled to his opinion like anyone else, doesn’t it make it true or false.
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@ Sondis
Even if Martin had jumped on Zimmerman first, he would have just been “standing his ground.’ He was being slowly and obviously followed by a man who was an older and larger adult. The man then got out of his car, failed to identify himself, and started aggressively asking him questions and moving into his personal space.
Even if Martin did strike Zimmerman first, it could have very well been seen as self defense—if it is reasonable to believe that a stranger slowly following you in his car, then getting out to follow you on foot until he catches up to you, represents a viable threat. What would any sane person think under those circumstances? If Trayvon believed the escalating confrontation to be a threat to his life or safety, then said defense against the instigator would be self defense.
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Oh, and all of this happened at night.
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It is pretty simple,but a certain segment of White America would argue that race had nothing to do with this. But it’s so clear even a blind person can see this. Zimmerman,a half Latino/White man,profiled a young Black teenager in a racist town. A law put into place in the state of Florida,where a racist can use it to profile and kill innocent Black and Brown people. Then you have racist lawyers representing the racist killer. A selection with air-headed jurors. A perfect recipe for a miscarriage of justice.
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A selection of air headed white female racist jurors, a perfect recipe for the miscarriage of justice.
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@ Sondis & King, Charles Barkley is just a sell out oreo. No wonder him and Tiger Woods are friends. It is always some house negroes to throw other Black people under the bus.
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KIng,
“It is pretty simple,but a certain segment of White America would argue that race had nothing to do with this. But it’s so clear even a blind person can see this”
You know what, its so funny that you say this, being Stevie wonder is boycotting, Florida as a result of the verdict.
So yes, even a blind man can see, that Zimmerman racial profiled, Trevon Martin.
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mary burrell:
Yeah, Chuck is a sell out.
Lots of rich, black men and women have sold out to the white people.
Charles Barkley with his white wife , Serena and Venus Williams with their white boyfriends and I’ve never heard, Micheal Jordan speak on any black issues, since he’s came into the NBA in 1983, while cheating on his black wife with a white woman.
I lost all respect for these black people.
Mostly, its your average, everyday black person that has a lot of money and live next to whites and not black people.
They sell out and do not form, common cause with their fellow black people, that are suffering.
They claim their blackness, only when it benefits them, other than that, they are offended that someone would see them as a, “black person”.
They blame, “those other blacks” for their misery and poverty as they forgot, they were once too, poverty stricken and lived around other poor blacks.
This is self hatred and internalized racism at its core. Because of money they have attained, they distance themselves from poor blacks, to further their effort to, transcend their blackness, so they can be accepted by whites.
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@ mary
“But it’s so clear even a blind person can see this”
Yep u right even stevie wonder knows what’s up that is why he’s boycotting florida and other states. Charles Berkley doesn’t surprise me, and neither does bill cosby crazy behind. smh.
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@ sondis: We are in sync about the blind man seeing through this fecal matter. Said blind man being Stevie Wonder boycotting Florida. (See my above cooments).
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Yall think Charles Barkley and bill cosby are sell out u ain’t seen nothing yet.
Introducing Uncle ruckus http://newsone.com/2636250/byron-thomas-confederate-flag/
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I was hoping this was a mistake about Bill Cosby siding with Zimmerman. I am disappointed with Heathcliff Huxtable. SMH.
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@ mstoogood4yall: Uncle Ruckus indeed. Is this what having money does to black people?
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@ mary
U know I kinda was too, but then I thought back to his show and was like it makes sense. The cosby show didn’t talk about racism or really anything, they were feeding into the if black ppl get rich and successful they won’t face racism and everything will be alright.
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Mary
Idk, they do say money is the root of all evil. But I think these special types were already a little self hatish to begin with, and money made them think they could buy their white membership. Like I said black ppl need to make a list of all the black celebs that didn’t say or do anything and don’t buy their jersey, their sneakers, their clothes, don’t go to their concert, or their movies.
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@mstoogood4yall: I am in total agreement with that suggestion. If he get these individuals where it hurts in their wallets, that would change a lot of this foolishness that’s appearing in the media these days.
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I sadly would have to agree, this happens to black people, when we get a lot of money, we tend to sell out, being we are used to not having money or power, so when we get both, we don’t know how to handle it and stay grounded.
So we become elitists, in an effort to be accepted by whites, its the case of selling your soul, to the white devil.
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Mary & Sondis
Yep we do need to boycott them, and yes sondis money does make them crazy for some reason. I think its about staying hungry and humble, somewhere along the way they lose one or both of those. I do respect the older celebs though like stevie wonder and Muhammad ali, they do speak up when these things happen or donate money. Its these new celebs that are messed up. Maybe its because they’ve gone through some things and saw the way it was back then, but then bill cosby has no excuse for his behavior.
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@ mstoogood4yall: Yes, I saw that clown with the confederate flag. I find that to be frightening. What’s next black folks wanting to joing the kkk?
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*joining*
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Mary idk, I do wonder if he did try to join the kkk. rofl, I do wonder where he grew up and who his parents are. I think he probably grew up in a white neighborhood and his parents didn’t tell him anything or he chose to ignore it. Someone needs to study these types so we can make sure we won’t make the same mistakes and raise sellouts. There are 2 kinds of sellouts
1. is a sellout that does so when they make it, but when they have their n!@@r moment they wake up and come back
2. Is the kind of sellouts like that lost soul that will get their n@@r moment and just ignore it and chuck it up as a minor incident no big deal, and will never wake up, not even when they in the gas chamber, smh. these are the types we need to separate ourselves from and avoid
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So tragic.
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In my mind there is little doubt that Zimmerman was stalking Martin. It appears that he thought that because he was “packing” he was powerful and untouchable, and he seems to have been largely right. However, he’ll go the rest of his life waiting for the ax to fall for his actions as he should. Martin made one bad decision, and paid the ultimate price. Honestly, when someone is stalking you, the best thing to do is to go to a safe place. It might seem right, more manly, whatever to confront the aggressor, but as I tell my daughter there is being safe, and then there is being right while also dead, raped, assaulted, etc. Most young men are (hopefully) not going to make the decision Martin did here, anger or not.
But this isn’t about Martin anymore. Martin is dead. This is about Zimmerman, the police, the prosecution, the jury, and the laws of Florida. I don’t understand why the prosecution allowed the jury they did to be seated. I don’t know why the prosecution clouded the issue with a murder charge when clearly they had no hope of ever reaching that bar. It has been clearly shown that Zimmerman is guilty of manslaughter, and I’m sorry but a stalker has no claim to self-defense. Between the poor charges and the poor jury this case seems to have been a loser. Justice wasn’t done here at all. Most liberals I know of have this opinion as well.
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Waiting for the ax to fall; That’s a hell of a way to live. Maybe he will keep eating and getting fatter and fatter. His obesity is probably due to the stress of awiting the trial. When he is still under stress,always looking over your shoulder. he is free yet in prison.
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*I believe he is still under stress, always looking over his shoulder*
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I am so sorry I hope this isn’t changing to the subject but it leads to Trayvon Martin and Zimmerman.
I was harassed by a few cops a few weeks ago. One was black and one was white, but the white guy initiated it first. I was walking to the store to purchase new phone minutes when they pulled me over asking if I was involved in an illegal gambling ring. It was the white guy who nudged his sad uncle tom minion in the arm. I am a black young attractive female (I am saying this to make a point) who was pulled out of a thick crowd of walking white people. Mind this, I was dressed very conservatively with my gym bag and ballet flats and a sweater that covered my shape (I just got from the gym). These (one white and the uncle an uncle tom) men harassed me and stepped out of the car. I was humiliated but not shocked. I hate cops and I have my reasons for hating them. I hate their demeanor and I hate that they are paid members of the KKK. Anyway, since I was attractive AND black, they acted as though it was totally sinful and I the black slut jezebelle had nothing other to do than sell my body and give my money to an illegal casino because I being black am just trash who must need to sell myself to white men because they are so special.
So I was frisked, talked at or down too and when they couldn’t find anything they began to ask if I were a prostitute. I had no make up and I was dressed covering myself.
Meanwhile I was on the sidewalk while “innocent” whites dressed sluttier than I paraded around smirking.
“It’s another black ho,” a white girl muttered , though she was dressed in shorts that would make Madonna frown. Her ta tas were hanging out.
I was wondering if you can do a post on how one should handle police harassment like these for brown, black and “self proclaimed biracials” who resemble my all “black” family as well (who are racially profiled no matter what they claim). It would be so helpful if you did a post on how PoC males and BOTH females should handle this because people talk about young black males and ignore the other half of black females who get harassed too. We get followed and harassed by cops just as well.
I am sorry if I am off topic but I think Trayvon , no screw it. I KNOW he was racially profiled and I am wondering how to handle the
harassment from hateful white people and their house slave uncle toms follow you. I know never to pull over on a dark road alone when a cop flashes on his obnoxious red and blue lights but I wish their were a collection of tips mentioned as well. Don’t know if it’s been done but I like to see the bloggers take.
Have you guys seen the Youtube comments? I love the irony of the hateful white people commenting on how “ni66ers are so racists. I hate them.”
Sorry if my grammar is awful, I am jotting this down quickly.
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*there
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@ BronzeCleopatra
Sorry u had to go through that. I’ve seen articles about cops strip searching and not only that but doing body cavity searches as well without a warrant or over some little things like weed or dark tinted windows. sadly there are blacks who join in on these acts just to fit in and feel powerful. A lot of people harass attractive black women because they think we are either the jezebel or mammy stereotype. So if u are in shape they think u the jezebel. Many black women have said how when they were overweight ppl treated them fine, but when they got fit then ppl started to hate and disrespect them. This has happened to me. The only post I can think of that abagond wrote close to what u are asking is the how to be a victim post. But I don’t think there will ever be a post about how to handle police harassment, because there is no real way to handle it. There have been a lot of ppl killed and harassed by the cops and nothing was done even when they reported it.
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I find it ironic that Trayvon called Zimmerman a “creepy a** cracker” because I feel alot of us can relate to that, minus the racial term ( even though it is whites in terms of “creepiness”. Constantly trying to have control of us, wishing no one wanted us romantically and putting so much effort into trying to make that happen, constantly hating on us while we are minding our business trying to live our lives”. They exhibit CREEPY behavior for sure.
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@ BronzeCleopatra
This was the closest I read regarding police harassment—>https://abagond.wordpress.com/2010/08/18/driving-while-black/
I’ve bookmarked it for when my kiddos are of age, to help guide our conversations about the cruel harsh world that’s waiting for them. They have to fly straight the first time, no mistakes (no benefit of the doubt for them) etc…. A big kudos for you Abagond for making the conversation more tangible and educational.
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Abagond, as I said in another thread, we also need a post about Yoshihiro Hattori who was shot and killed in Baton Rouge, Louisiana in 1992. Thanks to KOT for reminding me about this. In this case, the Castle Doctrine was involved, but the kid’s only crime was to ring the doorbell on the wrong door looking for an address of a Halloween party he was going to. He even walked away when nobody answered. The homeowner (Peairs) thought he looked suspicious and shot and killed him.
Many parallels:
– an innocent unarmed 17-yr old boy was not doing anything illegal
– a homeowner thought he looked suspicious and went and got his gun
– he profiled the teenager as a trespasser with criminal intent
– Shot and killed the boy
– the local police quickly questioned and released Peairs, and declined to charge him with any crime
– police felt that “Peairs had been within his rights in shooting the trespasser.
– DA brought the case to court later
– The trial lasted seven days. After the jurors deliberated for three and a quarter hours, Peairs was acquitted.
– very strong suspicion of racism involved in the acquittal of the assailant, because shortly afterwards, a 17-yr old white boy was shot and killed in a similar incident in Michigan, but the shooter was found guilty, convicted (albeit, not manslaughter) and sentenced to serve a prison term.
The boy, however, was not doing anything criminal, so the Castle Doctrine should not have applied. He did not threaten the homeowner in any way whatsoever.
Did race have anything to do with that case?
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Abagond, you should also do a post on Roderick Scott, a black man who killed a white 16 year-old. He was acquitted also. I see a lot of white people bringing this up and I believe it merits a response.
The notable differences I see is that Roderick Scott was charged initially as there is no Stand Your Ground law in New York and the 16 year-old was in the process of stealing from a car.
This made me ask if GZ would have been charged initially would there still be accusations of racism? I’d say yes because Trayvon wasn’t committing a crime. GZ followed him because he looked suspicious. Because Trayvon was black and some black kids had burglarized a house in the neighborhood.
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Well said:
http://www.upworthy.com/a-perspective-on-george-zimmerman-that-every-person-should-hear?g=3
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“Even if Martin did strike Zimmerman first, it could have very well been seen as self defense—if it is reasonable to believe that a stranger slowly following you in his car, then getting out to follow you on foot until he catches up to you, represents a viable threat. What would any sane person think under those circumstances? If Trayvon believed the escalating confrontation to be a threat to his life or safety, then said defense against the instigator would be self defense.”
If persons M and Z are both in an area they are allowed to be in and person Z is following person M, then it is not legal for person M to assault person Z. It just isn’t, no matter how you spin it. If person Z is in fear of his life due to person M’s assault, then person Z is permitted to use deadly force.
There is no credible evidence that refutes the narrative that Z followed M, M assaulted him, M had him on the ground beating him, and Z responded with deadly force.
That’s pretty much the end of it and why the not guilty verdict was returned.
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” It has been clearly shown that Zimmerman is guilty of manslaughter, and I’m sorry but a stalker has no claim to self-defense.”
Josh, this is wrong. First, following someone on a single night in an area you are allowed in is not stalking. Second, even if someone is a legitimate stalker, they absolutely have a right to defend themselves. Let’s say you were legitimately stalking an ex-girlfriend by sitting outside her house with binoculars. She comes out of the house and tries to stab you with a butcher knife. Are you legitimately arguing that you would have no right to self-defense?
There is a general disconnect happening between what people believe or want the laws to be and what they actually are in this case. Also, there is the belief that because action A led somewhat to action B and therefore action B is absolved and we must look all the way back. What I mean is, it is likely the case that Martin would not have assaulted Zimmerman if Zimmerman had not first followed him. However, that does not excuse the assault as that was the first unlawful action and was the proximate cause for the response by Zimmerman.
Then there is the belief that whomever supports the verdict in this case must be some sort of white nationalist and therefore nothing they think or say has any merit, which I might be being lumped in with now.
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@ qwerty
” First, following someone on a single night in an area you are allowed in is not stalking. “—This really depends on how ones state defines stalking, so Josh may not be as wrong as you assume. In most cases it is a persistent action and even this depends on what one considers to be persistent. It can be said that Zimmerman was persistent in his actions even when told not to continue this action.
“the assault as that was the first unlawful action and was the proximate cause for the response by Zimmerman.”—- Everyone is assuming who attacked who. No one knows. The assault was the first unlawful act but the question is who assaulted who first? This is the biggest problem on both sides and even well meaning people like you just made this assumption. We don’t know but does not stop people for still trying to slide these well to do assumptions in as a fact.
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“Everyone is assuming who attacked who. No one knows. The assault was the first unlawful act but the question is who assaulted who first? This is the biggest problem on both sides and even well meaning people like you just made this assumption. We don’t know but does not stop people for still trying to slide these well to do assumptions in as a fact.”
You are correct that we do not know this with certainty. However, in a court of law we are assumed innocent until proven guilty. Zimmerman stated he was assaulted first and no evidence successfully disproves this and some evidence corroborates it. Therefore, the “beyond a reasonable doubt” stipulation is not met. As the story stands now, the most likely turn of events is that Martin was the first to be physical. You will notice that half of those that dispute the verdict have no problem accepting that and somehow think that it does not matter in this case, when it obviously is of utmost importance. I am trying to examine the correct legal decision given what we know of the situation at hand.
Further, you are not permitted to physically attack someone that was doing what Zimmerman purportedly was doing, just following someone for a period while in an area he was permitted to be in. Even an obvious stalker cannot be assaulted and the stalker can defend themselves. So, this stalker thing is a non-issue.
Also, you are not under a legal obligation to follow the orders of police dispatch. In most cases they are not sworn police officer and are not trained in the law or how to coach someone through a life-altering situation. Google it to see. Further, in many situations you are not obligated to follow the directions of actual LEO. For instance, if an LEO orders you to do something pointless that endangers your life, then no properly-functioning court will uphold his/her decision to arrest you as a consequence. Besides, it is stated that Zimmerman broke off his pursuit after being advised to and no sufficient evidence contradicts this. As it stands now, Zimmerman had broken off the chase and Martin decided to physically confront him because he was upset at being followed. But even if he had pursued Martin against a dispatcher’s orders, this does not disallow self-defense.
It seems most of the arguments here are tending towards the butterfly effect (and I know the exact meanings of butterfly effect within the realm of chaos theory so some smartie shouldn’t correct my loose use here) where we could ultimately blame everything on nearly all events post-Big Bang. But if this that and the other had not happened previously then Martin would likely not have been motivated to or had the opportunity to do what it is reported that he did. That is not how someone actually parses responsibility within this mortal coil, if they are truly attempting to be rational and ethical, that is how someone excuses behavior with commiserating friends. “But if John hadn’t gotten me fired then I would not have been tempted to have sex with his wife while he was out of town”.
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@qwerty
“some evidence corroborates it.”–And what evidence that was present corroborates it?
“As the story stands now, the most likely turn of events is that Martin was the first to be physical.”–How is it most likely? If someone grabs you then you are not the first to be physical (yet this is something still not known) so there is no most likely here unless you are now trying to think for Martin or assume his behavior.
“Further, you are not permitted to physically attack someone that was doing what Zimmerman purportedly was doing, just following someone for a period while in an area he was permitted to be in. Even an obvious stalker cannot be assaulted and the stalker can defend themselves. So, this stalker thing is a non-issue.”—They both were permitted in the area, so stating that is a non-issue. An obvious stalker can be assaulted…The consequences for said action is another story. Anyone can defend themselves so your point?It is only an issue because you want it to be. I stated my point on it and was done.
“Also, you are not under a legal obligation to follow the orders of police dispatch.”–Didn’t say he was just pointed out an alternate point.
“As it stands now, Zimmerman had broken off the chase and Martin decided to physically confront him because he was upset at being followed. But even if he had pursued Martin against a dispatcher’s orders, this does not disallow self-defense.”—Another non fact getting passed as one. No one knows he did stop the following. We assume because he said so. Don’t know if Martin did.
““But if John hadn’t gotten me fired then I would not have been tempted to have sex with his wife while he was out of town”.—That was not a good example in this case.
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” However, in a court of law we are assumed innocent until proven guilty.”—Coming from someone who has a degree in criminal justice and has worked in the justice system I know how it works. I understand the laws. What I am saying to you is frankly no one knows….Not guilty does not equal innocent. Even though the evidence was not sufficient (according to Florida’s laws), it really does not change the possibility that he could have actually put his hands on Martin and being a hot headed teen he responded in violence.
Many (including myself) feel that the continuous following or stalking is an indication that he intended on harming or doing something, but the court does not see it that way. He feared for his life fine, but I don’t buy it and I am entitled to that opinion.
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I agree that Zimmerman made mistakes that night. I also feel that Martin made mistakes as well.
“Not guilty does not equal innocent.”
Are we discussing the law here, the morality of the law, ethics/morality in general, or what might have happened? I am interested in the legal question, but to each his own. Zimmerman behaved in a way that I would not that night. That is an obvious and trivial point, I feel.
“Even though the evidence was not sufficient (according to Florida’s laws), it really does not change the possibility that he could have actually put his hands on Martin and being a hot headed teen he responded in violence.”
Of course, very little can be absolutely proved in this case. But you seem to side with me that in the absence of compelling evidence to the contrary that we must fall back upon a presumption of innocence.
“Many (including myself) feel that the continuous following or stalking is an indication that he intended on harming or doing something, but the court does not see it that way.”
Sure, circumstantial evidence of intent. Would you concede though that sometimes concerned neighbors follow someone in their neighborhood and have no intention of harming them? I once followed a drunk driver that almost hit me on the interstate. I did so that I could provide police with constant updates so that he wouldn’t get away. He almost hit like 10 other people during that time and a small caravan formed and all of us were doing the same thing. Apples and oranges, but it underlines the fact that merely following someone only indicates a possibility of something and does not justify violent reprisal.
“He feared for his life fine, but I don’t buy it and I am entitled to that opinion.”
Okay. Most things are opinions anyways.
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@qwerty
“Are we discussing the law here, the morality of the law, ethics/morality in general, or what might have happened? “—If I wanted to discuss the mights and opinions and assumptions I will be sure to clearly label this. What i was stating was some truth. People tend to believe that a person found not guilty means they did not do anything wrong or otherwise, which is a false sense of security they want to believe. In cases this can be true but in cases it can be false.
” I am interested in the legal question, but to each his own.”—What legal question is that?
“But you seem to side with me that in the absence of compelling evidence to the contrary that we must fall back upon a presumption of innocence.”—It sounds good from a legal front, but truthfully that is not always the mindset of legal officials and what gave you the idea that I side with you on that?
“Would you concede though that sometimes concerned neighbors follow someone in their neighborhood and have no intention of harming them?”—No, because you put yourself at risk in those situation and if a person does that then they usually announce who they are (if they are crazy enough to do that).
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@ qwerty
I am glad you feel they both made mistakes and that is great, but I find it wrong for individuals to lecture others on going on non-facts and assumptions when they are doing the same thing and that really is all I wanted to point out to you. I appreciate your educated responses I truly do, but all they did was mask the fact that you were making assumptions and passing them off as some facts.
You believe what Zimmerman says and that is fine but just say that instead of adding all the extra hocus pocus to it.
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I didn’t get the impression that qwerty necessarily believes in what GZ said. In so many words, he also stated that he believes that GZ murdered Trayvon. That’s what he means when he says that “not guilty” does not mean “innocent”.
Even the prosecution admitted that they believe GZ is guilty of murder.
The problem was that the jury believed that there was not enough evidence to compel a conviction of the crimes he was charged with. Many things caused this
– social background and prejudices of the jury
– muddling prosecutors and failure to prep witnesses
– lies GZ may have told
– defense berating and discrediting witnesses for the prosecution
But, I, in large, blame the police. They screwed up. They believed GZ from the get go and failed to obtain evidence that he was guilty of anything. They would have practiced very different law enforcement had a non-black, esp. white person been killed. They did not even plan to arrest him for anything and would not have had there not been public pressure to do so.
I also blame America’s gun culture. But that is another topic.
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@ jefe
“That’s what he means when he says that “not guilty” does not mean “innocent”.”—Actually those are my words. 🙂
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@jefe
“I also blame America’s gun culture. But that is another topic.”—Indeed it is by I will go so far as the black America’s culture in general.
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[“But you seem to side with me that in the absence of compelling evidence to the contrary that we must fall back upon a presumption of innocence.”—It sounds good from a legal front, but truthfully that is not always the mindset of legal officials and what gave you the idea that I side with you on that?
“Would you concede though that sometimes concerned neighbors follow someone in their neighborhood and have no intention of harming them?”—No, because you put yourself at risk in those situation and if a person does that then they usually announce who they are (if they are crazy enough to do that).]
It is impossible for me to speak with someone that 1. does not understand why a presumption of innocence is vital (you should not have graduated from CJ or worked in the field if you disagree with this basic principle sewn throughout legal systems the world over) and 2. does not realize that sometimes people legitimately follow someone (with no intent to harm) but may not find it best to loudly announce themselves or may simply forget.
You are being emotionally driven and personify confirmation bias.
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[ I appreciate your educated responses I truly do, but all they did was mask the fact that you were making assumptions and passing them off as some facts.]
Wow, I wish for an American educational system that teaches people that in every situation, everyone is making assumptions, that there is no way around it, that they are vital, that it is best to make them very explicit, that those that lay their assumptions on the table are more to be trusted, and that all assumptions are not created equal.
This vitally underlays much of philosophy and science, but most college grads in the US never got beyond “when you ASSume you make an a$$ out of you and me!”.
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[ In so many words, he also stated that he believes that GZ murdered Trayvon. That’s what he means when he says that “not guilty” does not mean “innocent”.]
Jefe, I in no way stated or implied this. That not guilty does not mean innocent is simply a bare boned statement of the most basic fact imaginable. I also stated that GZ made some mistakes that night. Making mistakes leading up to a shooting does not men that you are guilty of 2nd degree murder.
[Even the prosecution admitted that they believe GZ is guilty of murder.]
Do you mean defense here?
[The problem was that the jury believed that there was not enough evidence to compel a conviction of the crimes he was charged with. Many things caused this
– social background and prejudices of the jury
– muddling prosecutors and failure to prep witnesses
– lies GZ may have told
– defense berating and discrediting witnesses for the prosecution
But, I, in large, blame the police. They screwed up. They believed GZ from the get go and failed to obtain evidence that he was guilty of anything. They would have practiced very different law enforcement had a non-black, esp. white person been killed. They did not even plan to arrest him for anything and would not have had there not been public pressure to do so.]
Because you know you must be right and if everyone had done things as you would they would’ve found the evidence to prove that you are right about this.
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Of course not, I am only speculating. 🙂
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the photographs of GZ with the blood dripping from the back of his head prove to me that GZ had to have been on top but that wasn’t even in the trial.
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sorry, I mean the photograph showing the blood dripping from the back of GZ’s head to his ear…
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Or that at some point while he was bleeding he stood upright or leaned over. The head can bleed very much from small cuts. Imagine that you slip on ice and land straight back on your head and cut yourself there. You then stand up and walk home. Perhaps you sit down and lean over once at home to let someone see the cut. Reading blood traces in that situation would be a bit like reading tea leaves, no?
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Qwerty, blood does not flow from the back of your head to your ear if you are lying on the ground.
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scroll down for the picture of the blood flow to his ear.
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@ qwerty
“It is impossible for me to speak with someone that 1. does not understand why a presumption of innocence is vital (you should not have graduated from CJ or worked in the field if you disagree with this basic principle sewn throughout legal systems the world over) and 2. does not realize that sometimes people legitimately follow someone (with no intent to harm) but may not find it best to loudly announce themselves or may simply forget.”—This is the part where you assume what I was saying. Ok. Let me quote what I said…”It sounds good from a legal front, but truthfully that is not always the mindset of legal officials and what gave you the idea that I side with you on that?” So what part of this concludes that I do not understand where it is vital? Awww it is quite sad that you are bringing out ad hominem attacks so early.
“You are being emotionally driven and personify confirmation bias.”—And you concluded that how? Is this the part where you say because I did not agree with you?
“Wow, I wish for an American educational system that teaches people that in every situation, everyone is making assumptions, that there is no way around it, that they are vital, that it is best to make them very explicit, that those that lay their assumptions on the table are more to be trusted, and that all assumptions are not created equal.”—That is great, but I guess you missed that paragraph up there where you were chastising others for this very reason because they were not on your bandwagon. So what makes your assumptions anymore better than theirs?
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“Qwerty, blood does not flow from the back of your head to your ear if you are lying on the ground.”
You didn’t read what I wrote. The picture was taken sometime after the injury was sustained. Did you expect Zimmerman to lay on his back in the exact position in which the injury purportedly was sustained and then have the picture taken in that position? How would that even be logistically feasible? Would they have to to take a shovel and dig a spot beneath his head and then place a camera and lighting in the hole pointing upwards?
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Querty, GZ admits he was on top of TM after he shot him, long enough for the blood to coagulate.
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This ^^ more than anything.
I don’t know if it’s already been said, and I don’t know the details of the case, but isn’t it perfectly in keeping with traditional, pseudo-scientific thinking that black people are immune to pain.
Their griefs are transient.
Their existence appears to participate more of sensation than reflection.
They have a “disposition to theft” and “depravity of the moral sense.”
(Thomas Jefferson)
Thus, we’re talking about animals. Not sentient beings.
It follows then, that black flesh can tolerate violence a human cannot.
As imported labour units, they had to be forced to work and produce through violence. How else?
This code is stitched into the fabric of the injustice system, and there is no remedy for it.
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@Bulanik
“This code is stitched into the fabric of the injustice system, and there is no remedy for it.”—This is very true. The system has never been justice yet it still amazes me that people believe it to be so. I admit at one time I thought it was….then you get an eye openner.
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@ Randy
“Thousands, if not millions of people, do seem to care. There are protests, riots, and reports of retributive violence.”—I think you believe to highly of your #1 and #2. I doubt people are rioting over it.
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@ Solesearch
“1. Which experts claim this? Which don’t? How did you come to this conclusion? Internet racists almost universally claim experts almost universally claim whatever they want.”—Notice the response to this question…..
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When I see these incidents
edition.cnn.com/2013/08/04/justice/new-york-police-shoot-teen/index.html
The question that runs through my mind is why the NYPD feels compelled to thuggify 14-yr. old black males my using a “justifiable” homicide by rookie white cops. They have over a thousand homicides per year, why pick this one to do a press statement on?
I suppose whether or not it was justified is not my point. My point is why are incidents selectively chosen to confirm community biases. 14-yr old black boys are hereby re-thuggified.
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Trayvon had no right to defend himself from Zimmerman grabbing him. Trayvon was just supposed to let Zimmerman do whatever he wanted to him according to his supporters.
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