Jordan Davis (1995-2012), an American high school student, was shot dead in Jacksonville, Florida on November 23rd 2012 by Michael Dunn in an argument over loud music. Davis was black and 17, Dunn is white and 45, a software developer.
Like the Trayvon Martin killing:
- another unarmed 17-year-old black boy shot dead
- in Florida
- the killer will probably argue self-defence under the Stand Your Ground law
- racism seems likely in that there is no other reason for a grown man with a gun to feel his life threatened by an unarmed black boy.
- that sense that, as Melissa Harris-Perry puts it, “this is no country for young black men”.
Unlike Trayvon:
- the killer was arrested one day later, not 44 days and numberless protests later.
- the killer fled the crime scene.
- there are at least three witnesses who were right there: Davis’s friends.
- not hoodies this time, but loud music drew the killer’s attention
The story as mainly told by Dunn’s lawyer (with bits from the police):
Michael Dunn was returning from his son’s wedding. He stopped to get wine at a Gate gas station quickie mart, parking next to Jordan Davis. Davis was in a red Dodge Durango, out on a Friday night with three of his friends, also black teenaged boys – “kids” as Dunn later put it.
While Dunn’s girlfriend went in to get the wine, Dunn asked Davis to turn down his music. He did – but soon turned it back up. They argued. Dunn says Jordan Davis then pointed a shotgun at him and said “This is going down now.”
Dunn got his gun, a Taurus 9-millimetre (pictured), and fired at least four shots at Davis and at least four more at the car as it pulled out. Jordan Davis died on the way to the hospital.
Dunn did not tell the police, but a witness who followed him did – after getting his licence plate number. The next day the police arrested Dunn. They charged him with second-degree murder and attempted murder.
No shotgun has been found. Or any weapon Davis might have used.
It is early days so more might come out.
Ron Davis, Jordan’s father, fears that Dunn will use the Stand Your Ground law to beat the murder charge.
He is right to be concerned: in states with Stand Your Ground laws 34% of whites who shoot at blacks get away with it. For blacks who shoot at whites it is only 3%. Murder has gone up in those states.
The New York Times reports that Jordan Davis has no criminal record and comes from “a stable environment at home”. Like he is the suspect or something. Meanwhile they say nothing about Michael Dunn’s criminal record or the home environment he came from. Like there is nothing odd or sick about a man who picks deadly fights over loud music at gas stations. Or who values human life so cheaply.
– Abagond, 2012.
See also:
- Melissa Harris-Perry on Jordan Davis – Straight out of Nerdland. Excellent.
- Marissa Alexander – another Jacksonville Stand Your Ground case
- Trayvon Martin
- Should George Zimmerman be arrested? – this post got 1,631 comments! No joke.
- The perfect victim
- phantom black assailants
- white men who kill unarmed people:
- unarmed blacks killed by whites as some kind of threat:
- Trayvon Martin
- Aiyana Jones
- Emmett Till
- C.J. Miller
- those killed because of phantom weapons:
- Sean Bell – his friend was said to be pulling out a gun. No gun was found.
- Ramarley Graham – said to have a gun. None was found.
- Kenneth Chamberlain – said to have a butcher’s knife. The video showed no such thing
- Rekia Boyd – killed because police thought a mobile phone was a “gun”
- Oscar Grant – said to be reaching for a gun even though the police had already searched him
I hate how the NYT reported Davis’ criminal background and home environment…even if he had a record and came from a broken home, that doesn’t mean he had it coming. It doesn’t mean Dunn was justified in the murder.
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Gun laws! Too many nutcases with too many weapons. Of course it would have been the polite thing to do for Jordan to keep the music down until Dunn’s departure, if the request had been done politely?? But it was an open space, Dunn was not going to spend the night there so trying to enforce the request, and then getting his gun out was utterly stupid. Or mad? There are a lot of people under impossible stress at the moment, and likely to lash out. This is why it is important to get these gun laws.
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Oh yes, Y. with the beautiful smile I agree with you. And wouldn’t we like to know more about the killer’s background? At least I would. Maybe we’d learn he had already been noticed for being aggressive, and then we might wonder why he was allowed to have a gun. Maybe we would learn he too is a victim of some kind, and see once more, an innocent like Jordan gets caught in a chain reaction, because someone has got a gun. My commiserations to his family and friends.
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Y.
I know right? However, I saw this coming. It’s no different than how they did Trayvon Martin. The press is looking for ways to make it seem like black males like both Jordan and Trayvon had it coming to them. It’s one of the reasons why I detest the news media so much. They try to make turn the murders of black youth into insignificant expectations.
Everyone,
How many wanna bet that “Circus boy/Miguel Miquel” will come in here with his incoherent babble and defending this man using the “Stand Your Ground” meme numerous times?
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Another senseless death,another young loss of life. When will the madness end? Rest in Peace Jordan Davis. There will be more similar tragic deaths. I am so sad about this.
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The more things change..I remember reading Assata Shakur’s autobiography and in it, whites were making comments as to her and her cohorts’ alleged guilt, saying something along the the lines: ‘if they’re black, they must be guilty’..what kind of deeply rooted and twisted projection causes them to see US as innately guilty of something..until AND only IF proven innocent and then only accepted as fact grudgingly?
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mmaat433,
Sometimes even the proof of innocence isn’t enough. As long as they see dark skin, that is reason enough to condemn them. It’s beyond sick on so many levels.
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If the facts are as they appear, and I don’t think any of us know that yet, Dunn should be prosecuted. Unfortunately, young black men are infinitely more likely to be gunned down by another young black mnn than they are to be gunned down by an armed white man. All such deaths, regardless of the respective race of the individuals, cause heartbreak for a Mom and family. Very saddening times, these.
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Forgive the above typo on the word, “man”.
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[…] "Jordan Davis (1995-2012), an American high school student, was shot dead in Jacksonville, Florida on November 23rd 2012 by Michael Dunn in an argument over loud music. .,.. The New York Times reports that Jordan Davis has no criminal record and comes from “a stable environment at home”. Like he is the suspect or something. Meanwhile they say nothing about Michael Dunn’s criminal record or the home environment he came from. Like there is nothing odd or sick about a man who picks deadly fights over loud music at gas stations. Or who values human life so cheaply." – MORE – […]
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I think your last paragraph, especially, makes an excellent point.
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Delwin, you need to take back your completely irrelevant comment about black-on-black crime.
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@ mmaat433
You answered your own question: they are projecting.
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@ Delwin D. Schryver
Why on earth are you trying to excuse shooting unarmed black people? Do you understand how sick that is?
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Abagond, If indeed the facts of this case are as you say, you are absolutely right when you say the man should be prosecuted. What bothers me is you never report on black on black killings. Or Black on white killings. (and don’t use your usual excuse that they are overly reported and these aren’t,… seems to me the white on black crimes get MORE national attention… and I know the local news reports them everyday, but then they go by the wayside and no “activists” seem to care) It’s not just you either. It seems like when the perp is white everyone gets up in arms and it fuels black hatred for white men. Although a rare occurrence in comparison to the black on black crimes.
Please explain this.
http://www.theroot.com/views/what-if-jordan-davis-killer-were-black
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Dave, wake up–if there’s any black “hatred” for white men, what fuels it is white racism.
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It’s like this… What if the Italian mob started pointing fingers at the Russian mob for being too brutal. Or they started condemning the Mexican drug lords for being too ruthless. Wouldn’t that be a little hypocritical? Or if the guy who never raked or mowed his lawn in three years reported you to the city for trash on your property. I know these are unfair comparisons if you are looking at these two as individuals. But to me as soon as you have people blaming the racism of ALL white americans on a national level it starts to look very hypocritical. The aftermath of the Martin shooting got way out of hand on shows like “Dr. Drew on CNN” and the “Rachel Maddow show” and countless other national shows. To me I start to think well you should really clean up your own yard then start pointing those fingers.
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So aspergum… are you really going to sit here and say that my observation is false. That when the bad guy is white black people don’t get more mad?
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It seems like when the perp is white everyone gets up in arms and it fuels black hatred for white men.
A lot of people (certainly not everyone) says something in anger about it because it’s another, and especially extreme and painful example of white racism. Funny how you twist it into a story of white victimhood.
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aspergum.. I’m not trying to be the victim. I’m a little sick of the people on CNN and such using sad stories like this to fuel hatred and division. They also seem to use it for their own agendas at time. That’s not just black people either the white liberal media has many agendas that they use racism to exploit.
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Dave, you’re simply not seeing how telling black people to clean up their own yards blindly ignores the fact that it’s white people — decades and centuries of white supremacy — that messed up urban black areas in the first place.
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also why is it automatically racism when the guy is white. and it’s not even considered on other way around shootings. (which do happen, that’s why fair reporting would be nice here….. that’s all i’m saying)
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I’m not telling the average black person that “To clean up his yard” I’m telling the black activist with his big mouth piece on National shows that.
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Because, dave, a culture loaded with white supremacist caricatures of scary, supposedly dangerous and criminal black men fuel these kinds of instances of violence. That’s especially horrible when the black male victims are actually innocent.
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Also the bottom line here is the people in this world with the power want us to lose our second amendment rights. If you take away our guns and completely take away the right to defend yourself and any self defense laws. You are hurting more people then you are helping. I remember a quote from Spock (I know you are a Trek fan Abagond)….”The needs of the many.. outweigh the needs of the few… or the one” If we take these sad cases and now you have no rights to self defense because of it, (and by the way “stand your ground” shouldn’t even be an issue here … the guy fled the scene!!!) then you are being a pawn on what the establishment wants.
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Aspergum.. I’m sure people on here can back me up. Right after Treyvon Martin was reported (I found out about it on here) I was just as up in arms about it as anyone. I helped argue some of the naysayers right out of here. But when I started seeing some retaliations on innocent white people, the national attention the story was getting and the way it seemed to fuel hatred for whites it bothered me. I don’t want that to happen again.
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I think one of the idiots I argued with was named “destructure” to refresh some memories.
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@ Dave
1. If Jordan Davis had a shotgun, then it is not racism. It is simple self-defence – what anyone would do to save their life. But if, as it seems, he had no gun, then how in the world do you account for Dunn’s actions other than racist fear or insanity?
2. You are forgetting that blacks do not control the police or the courts. That is what makes white-on-black murder different than white-on-white, black-on-black and black-on-white. If justice was truly colour-blind then it would not be the big deal that it is.
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so sad it is tragic that cases like this still happen and ppl want to say racism is dead and blacks should stop using the race card.It is so disgusting that they try to justify things like this by finding one mistake a victim made to make their life seem less valuable. People can say it has nothing to do with race well i disagree it does and look at how the media tried to show trayvon martin as a thug because he was caught with an empty bag of weed but george had a criminal record. I think weed use is bad however Obama used it and now he’s the president.People were all forgiving when mitt romney had that hazing incident in his past and saying that doesn’t mean he is a bad person because he was young and learned from it. Yet they don;t want to have the same sympathy for victims like these they say they shouldn;t have been doing this or wearing that. I bet they wouldn;t say that about a precious white woman being raped that oh it was her fault and she shouldn’t have worn that,unless its a nutcase republican but ppl would shunn them. I’m just sick these cases are like the emitt till cases only thing is the court system works better now then it did then for blacks but it still is not completely un biased.Florida has been crazy lately i say give that state to mexico and let puerto rico take its place.
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Ok abagond. Thank you for that good explanation. But isn’t some of that watered down alot. There are black judges now… black lawyers… black police officers… and PLENTY of whistle blowers(maybe too many because you get false claims of racism from time to time) if there is even a hint of racism in the the justice system. Historically I would agree with you but some of that is changing and we must all change with it.
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ok yes black on black crime is a problem however the difference between that and this is the fact that if its black on black crime the killer is going to prison. with this kind of crime the killer gets off and the media tries to basically say that blacks lives aren;t worth anything so why should this poor white person have to pay for taking an unequal life.
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Abagond u are right about how in states with Stand Your Ground laws 34% of whites who shoot at blacks get away with it. For blacks who shoot at whites it is only 3%. Murder has gone up in those states. John Mcneil is a black man in prison for standing his ground in Georgia. He shot a white man after telling him to leave his yard and firing a warning shot. imo he did everything to avoid that yet he gets jailed.
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and PLENTY of whistle blowers(maybe too many because you get false claims of racism from time to time) if there is even a hint of racism in the the justice system.
?!
The justice system is LOADED with racism, from top to bottom! Educate yourself. Start with Michelle Alexander’s book The New Jim Crow.
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aspergum… calm down. I never said it didn’t exist. I even said “watered down” I may not be college educated, that doesn’t mean I’m uninformed. I’m a business owner and there is much to be learned in the real world.
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A clue about Dunn is that he is a software developer. He most likely has the typical functional aspergers personality and is not good at interacting with others. I would bet this isn’t the first time he has been involved in this type of argument.
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If you take vodka and water it down it will still get you drunk but not as drunk. You have to give credit where credit is due. There are many people who go out of their way to not be racist to the point where that in itself becomes unbalanced.
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That white man looks evil and miserable.
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@ Y. They did the same in the Trayvon Martin case and many White Americans commenting on news stories on the internet were stating that Matrtin’s murder was justified because he smoked marijuana. Same white folks that will smile in ur face. I don’t trust ’em. Like they never smoked a joint, America is built on lies and hypocrisy.
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http://bostonglobe.com/news/nation/2012/12/06/homeless-new-york-man-charged-with-murder-for-allegedly-pushing-man-onto-subway-track/aF8dbexMYzitENsNbF5oOI/story.html
Sorry abgond and most of the commenter’s but I agree with – Dave – especially his first comment on this.
Many of you know me – you can see I’m an african american male,one who is highly critical of white/albinic society and persistent in my search for truth and justice.
I think an important component of justice is fairness as is truth which is why I included the above link.
It involves a homeless african american male in new york who murdered a asian/korean male by pushing him on to the tracks of an on coming train.
Also I speak from personal experience – the other day I was verbal abused and threaten with assault by a african american for simply bieng interested in what he was doing And admiring his ingenuity .
The only thing that stopped him from following through was another african american male who warned him that there was a police officer directly across the street.
The other african american male was not concerned about me,but about my assailant getting arrested.
This assailant was detained a few minutes later by the very officer across the street not for threatening me with assault but because of a prior complaint by a Asian male(go figure) who was very grateful when I agreed to support him in have the assailant arrested.
I used my cellphones video recording capabilities to get a partial video record of this incident but I will be posting it due respect and privacy concerns not of myself but of the other individuals involved including said assailant.
In recent months I’ve several violent encounters – all of the assailant where african american males – and whether you believe me or not – I did nothing to provoke them other than verbal asserting myself(no abuse or profanity) and in at least one instance refrained from injurious violence in response to direct physical contact.
I can and will say more but I’m so very interested in the response here to this.
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So my thoughts are: it’s a travesty. No matter how you look at it. Given the details, its seems clear cut racist insanity. Why is it that Abagond needs to be fair and balanced regarding his blog spot? I mean we all know there are black on black crimes out there, as well as black on white crime. I believe the blog title says, “500 words on whatever I want” for a reason.” If y’all don’t like what’s being reported here, maybe it’s time to start your own blog. Just sayin.’
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Finally I was waiting for you to do an article on this for the longest! Why did it take so long?
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Mbeti,
what’s your point — that black men are sometimes violent and cazy too? if so, who doesn’t already know that?
the point (or counterpoint?) is that we live in a racist social order that causes more desperate craziness among black people, and also targets and punishes violent black people far more hasrshly than it does white ones.
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@mstoogood4yall A n hispanic man just got 40 years in Houston for shooting a white man who he felt was making too much noise at a party being hosted in his home. The whites in that area did not deliberate before he went to trial they announced to the media that he was going to jail…So “Stand your ground” is a license for whites to kill blacks depending on their mood.
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@ Aspergum, we exist within a violent spociety but u cannot run around killing folk based on this argument.
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thanks deep, but i’m not saying we can (or should). it’s not an excuse, it’s an explanation, as well a suggestion for where to find and work against root causes.
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It isn’t an explanation,perhaps from a white supremacist standpoint it is, it explains the white race’s irrational feelings about us. Was Jordan Davis being violent towards anyone that fateful night , no he wasn’t nor was Trayvon Martin or what about Ernest Hoskins who was invited to his white employer’s home and subsequently shot in the face while sitting at his dining room table?C’mon now..
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If the shoe were on the other foot in any of these cases, had a white man been the victim, it would be crystal clear. U whites want to make it legal to lynch blacks again and wish to have the right to kill blacks with impunity just like in the gool ol’ days when u used to have race riots and satisfy ur bloodlust on black people.”shrugs”.
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@Dave and @Aspergum
Hiya. If you want to solve a problem, you need to face it, identify/analyse it. I think we need to acknowledge that black people are more ar risk to be gunned down by other blacks (same in the Uk as in the USA). It is symptomatic of Black feeling vulnerable that they do not want to engage with this fact. If we do not acknowledge it, we will not work to eradicate it, and eradicating it would be a huge weapon against racism. Part of the reason behind these killings is historical and linked to white on black racism. It would be a political act of enormous importance against white racism if the black/hispano/coloured community managed to get organised and bring down black on black killings. They may call themselves Sisters and Brothers, but in a lot of cases, it is hood gang against hoodgang, and well…If I were a white racist, I’d think: golly, we do not need to do anything except put a little oil on the fire once in a while, they are killing each other off.
Make your lives a success, help others make their lives a success. it will be the sweetest revenge against the racists and classists!
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As long as we exist in a white supremacist society, world if u will , these things will comntinue to occur, u cannot raise a black male within a society that teaches him from birth that he is of no value, that criminalizes and demoralizes him and not expect him to look in the mirror and not feel a certain degree of hatred @ what he sees, but if ur using the argument that blacks r killing blacks so that excuses the crimes of these white racist murderers, ur part of the problem.
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my last comment was also @ Mbeti.
I do not have a pic of me because I do not want my colour to be more important than me, and also because I have something called “hidden ethnic heritage”. I know it is easy for some of us to say that because we are lucky enough to live in an environment where colour is no issue. I would like this to be the norm, and I strive to spread it.
@Deepkchocolate: If you tar all whites with the same brush, not only do you lose an opportunity in life (my best friend and I are not the same colour, my daughter married a Jew), but you are also not working against violence and racism.
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@Deepkchocolate: I never wrote black on black crime excuses white on black crime!! I just said it happens, and it happens because of historical reasons and that these historical reasons are rooted in white racism, which has led to the demoralisation etc you are mentioning (I agree with you on your analysis of how a lot of blacks feel, and in my line of work, I try to bring hope and a door to jobs and qualifications, to boost self esteem and morale). As I say to my kids: don’t give the whites so much power that they are allowed to ruin your life, succeed!! Success, taking the place you deserve and being magnanimous about it will be your sweetest revenge! Believe me, people who hate you hate it even more when you are so above and beyond them that you do not even seek revenge, cos if you seek revenge, they can get you…
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@ Anne come on, this system of things isn’t a result of “some” bad whites ,Like Public Enemy said , it takes a nation of millions to hold us back. that is such a deluded mentality. I don’t hate anyone, my spirit will not allow that. But I cannot continue to live and exist within a white supremacist paradigm and ignore the obvious. White have no desire to share the fruits of America with us everything they do and say on a daily basis dictates this, u can walk around with ur head up ur butt. I can’t do that. And what’s up with “the hidden ethnic heritage” afraid to say ur black? People like u bore me.
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Staying on topc, here….the shooter is guilty of murder. There is very little that i can think of that would excuse what he did. And the stand your ground law IS being used as a way to escape justice for people who should walk away. It is an invitation to be unnecessarily violent.
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@ Deepkchocolate
Now, you are automatically drawing conclusions. I am as black as everybody else, on principle, because human beings came out of Africa, and I would not be ashamed to say I am black. I would be proud. Proud to be a survivor in a white dominated world where many conspire to get rid of blacks, I agree with you about that much. As it is, I am proud to be a woman, in a world dominated by males who’d rather I did not speak my mind or had a good job or had decided how many kids I wanted to have
I am not bored by people who answer prejudice with prejudice. It make me feel the racists have poisoned you. They have won. It is a violent society, but Deepkchololate, it does not look like you’ll work to improve it.
bret
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And he will get off, just like George Zimmerman will get off with all this feet-dragging as related to a trial date and Ernest Hoskins murderer , well it took 24 hours for law enforcement to decide to arrest the man despite eye-witness accounts that Hoskins employer left the dining room came back with a gun levelled it at Hoskins and pulled the trigger. Well, I guess U can take comfort knowing “all whites r not so bad”.lol.
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@Anne. Thank you for bringing us back to reality: we all agree that this act was despicable, that it is repeated, that it must be stopped. If we quarrel, we are distracted from the necessary action: mobilise to make sure Dunn gets a fair trial…not a kanguroo one (Do you say that in the US?) and the right prison sentence and that it is a signal to like minded idiots, no matter their colour, to stop playing with their guns and think of themselves as God, who can decide, who’s to live and who’s to die.
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Truly heartbreaking. This young man was exactly the same age as my son and, like my son, a handsome young man who happens to enjoy loud music. I can imagine the pain and loss his parents must feel.
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You know, watching people come here trying to justify cold-blooded murder with long, rambling posts about tangentially related subjects is really killing me. If you must go on about nonexistent firearms and flimsy justifications for the murder, do it somewhere else.
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Sure it would have been the “polite” thing to turn down the music. However the murderer is not entitled to “polite” treatment. Hell, people drive by my house blasting music and I have never thought of confronting them. There is actually a mailbox next to my home (on the same side as my bedroom) and people stop to pick their mail with the music blasting. Sometimes people park for a moment and it has never bothered me to the point of confrontation, and this is my HOUSE! I just find it hard to believe that a man could be so bothered by music in a public gas station that he would go up to a group of boys and ask them to turn it down and shot up to 8 times into a car because he felt “threatened”. He made a quick pit stop to bet some wine, he wouldn’t have been there more than 5 minutes, 10 if there was a line.
Furthermore, this man is not a police officer, he doesn’t have the right to order anyone to do anything. Who made him the arbiter of noise at the gas station? Did the owners of the pump have a problem with it? If not then he should have minded his own business.
Also, since when did “feeling threatened” become an excuse to murder unarmed people?
This whole thing just boggles the mind.
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oops, didnt know “h*ll” was a moderated word, sorry!
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So let me get this straight… In America, you can carry a gun around, shoot at people as you see fit (just because you get into an argument?) and it’s totally OK?
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Also, WTF is this “stand your ground” law? Is this that thing where you can kill people if they go to your back yard or something?
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@ Mira, if ur white… Yes.
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I don’t know who u r ,since u addressed Anne in ur response and ur moniker is Anne Poitrineau, maybe u have a few sock puppets and r starting to get confused. I am not prejudiced just because I identify and call out the blatant racism of people like urself here in America and all over the world , that don’t make me prejudiced. I didn’t shoot a seventeen year old kid in cold blood I didn’t shoot my employee in the face nor did I shoot a child because he was sitting in his own damned car listening to music. Ur more upset with my RESPONSE to murderous whites than u r with murderous whites.OK? And no U don’t give a damn about these black children who have lost their lives to racism in these here United States.
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@ Bret, omigosh.. I am part of the problem? And , no, u r not black because all human beings “came out of Africa”, how stupid..
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Delwin,
Black-on-black crime has nothing to do with this case. Yet, both show a sick reality that black lives in this country are virtually worthless.
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Let me say this. Some of the people who bring up black-on-black crime in any instance where a white man kills a black man (or black woman), never truly cared about black-on-black crime to begin with. They are the ones who are silent when black people kill each other because they don’t care what happens to black people.
To tell us that we shouldn’t worry any instance of white-on-black crime is disingenuous. It’s like saying that white people killing blacks is no big deal. That is sick. Besides, they likely don’t give a damn about black-on-black crime either, but as soon as a black person kills a white person, then they want us to feel ashamed and sorry for this act.
I hope I’m not the only one who sees this.
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Hiya @Deepkchocolate. We are all part of the problem because racism is poisonous. Here we are, screaming at each other when we are all in fact devastated by one more example of white racism, one more example of the devastation caused by weapons, one more example of prejudiced reporting by the papers. Maybe if we left our differences aside, we might reach a point when we can act together to stop that sort of thing happening. You call me a racist. I work with black kids (and other ethnic minorities). I teach them what the normal school system failed to teach them, I check on them before a job interview (clothes, paperwork), call them to make sure they have got up. I know they are so demoralised they often think they have not got a chance, so sometimes they just do not go unless someone is there to make sure they do.
I am fine with people thinking it is stupid to say we are all black somewhere since we came out of Africa. Just remember that coming out of Africa is one of these things white supremacists cannot accept. I should know I got battered for mentioning it.
Bret was not a signature, I had not fully erased something, sorry! There are two different Annes.
It annoys me to have to justify myself when I really wanted to react about the unjust death of a young man.
Y. my comment did say that, if you’re just passing, you might feel bad about the noise and ask for silence POLITELY (he might have had a splitting headache, or be just that kind of guy who cannot be with others), but if you don’t get it, well heck, you are just passing, so forget it. Having killed Jordan means he wanted to make the point, that he was entitled to decide about things, even in places “outside of his jurisdiction” (and as you say, he was not even a policeman anyway!!!)
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I am not “screaming” at anyone, I am posting clear concise points on a blog, thank U.Saying we r all black since we all came from Africa is also an agenda used by white racists to turn us all away from the truth , kind of like the whole, “blacks sold blacks into slavery” to excuse the crimes of the white race.
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@deepkchocolate
That’s definitely not the case…the blacks who came out of Africa and settled in the whole world did it way before slavery, tens of thousands of years before…so a white supremacist using this argument would only demonstrate his ignorance.Ooops I forgot, ignorance is one thing white supremacists have in spades.
Deepkchocolate, if you ever come to the Uk, we should meet and I will take you to meet the kids!
I live far away, the world around me has similarities, and also big differences. This blog conveys your pain, all of you. The pain is deep and it is old, and it is constantly raw because there is no let off. It never has time to scar before another blow comes.
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white on black crime will always be racial and black people will always make a big deal about it until the justice system starts treating the black victims like victims and the white perpetrators like perpetrators.
Black people care about black on black crime. White people don’t until they can use it to excuse white on black crime.
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white on black crime will always be racial and black people will always make a big deal about it until the justice system starts treating the black victims like victims and the white perpetrators like perpetrators.
Black people care about black on black crime. White people don’t until they can use it to excuse white on black crime.
Flawless victory.
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deep,
I don’t know how you got the idea that I talked about b on b crime in order to excuse w on b crime. Actually, I’m totally on board with your perception of a white supremacist USA. Why else would I recommend a book like The New Jim Crow?
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deep,
I don’t know how you got the idea that I talked about b on b crime in order to excuse w on b crime (if that’s what you mean). Actually, I’m totally on board with your perception of a white supremacist USA. Why else would I recommend a book like The New Jim Crow?
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soleserach: go IN on these fools
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white on black crime will always be racial and black people will always make a big deal about it until the justice system starts treating the black victims like victims and the white perpetrators like perpetrators.
Black people care about black on black crime. White people don’t until they can use it to excuse white on black crime.
Whoomp! There it is!
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@Brothawolf: MESSAGE!!
@ Everyone: White people need to get the photobook “Without Sanctuary – Lynching Photography in America” to get feel for how deeply white-on-black terrorism/murder/rape/violence has been historically the norm. They effects of this 300 + generational reign of terror is now so deeply rooted that is coded in our DNA. White folks just need to come to terms with the fact they have a dark side and sh*t.
I came across this line while reading Paul Gilroy’s “There Ain’t No Black in the Union Jack,” from June Jordan that’s insightful: To defuse and to deform the motivating truth of critical human response to pain…If you make and keep my life horrible, then when I can tell the truth, it will be a horrible truth; it will not sound good or look good, or God willing, feel good to you either.
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I don’t understand why some of us feel the need to explain our indignation or righteous anger. I see this happening where ever black people congregate online. Even virtually we need to be monitored and censured, lest we get any ‘militant’ ideas…like actually believing we are worthy of being treated as the glorious human beings we are and if we protest maltreatment, then well here comes the ninja catchers to deflect, diffuse and put US on the defensive as if WE are in the wrong! Almost like clockwork. Almost like they are working an organized agenda; maybe even a job. I’ve seen without sanctuary and leaves me seething. So many stories but the lynching story that has always resonated with me is the story of Mary Turner–sheer barbarism for no other reason than they knew they could get away with it.
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Jordan davis’s car left the scene. There was plenty of time to ditch a gun if he had one. There’s no way to know cuz its word against word. But if I was in a car that pulled a gun and one of my boys got shot the first thing I’d do is drive off. The second thing I’d do is have one of my boys jump out \on the way to the hospital and ditch it somewhere. The third thing I’d do is say we didn’t have no gun. Because the cops are going to want to know how heg ot shot. And no one going to say he got shot pointing a gun at someone else.
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I don’t know if jd had a gun or not. But he could have had one. and they had plenty of time to get rid of it after they drove off. Common sense says if you pull a gun on someone and get shot your going to get rid of it and say you didnt have one. At this point it could be either way.
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@ beetlejuice, Iam pretty sure if “JD” had a gun he would’ve used it to defend himself against this white pstchopath. I mean, what is that all about? U don’t know if he had a gun? C’mon. What a crock..
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Don’t even have the decency to say his name… JD.
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@ Everyone: White people need to get the photobook “Without Sanctuary – Lynching Photography in America” to get feel for how deeply white-on-black terrorism/murder/rape/violence has been historically the norm. They effects of this 300 + generational reign of terror is now so deeply rooted that is coded in our DNA. White folks just need to come to terms with the fact they have a dark side and sh*t.
Oh yeah? Same white folks who would sit around @ midnight with their families, husband in his sheets, wife and kids,barbecuing black men and giving pieces of his roasted genitalia to his kids? Yeah Ok. U can hang a black man from a street light today in 2012 and white folks would walk on by or look upon that body swinging while eating subway and drinking a beer.
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@deepdkchololate… just the sort of hatred and exaggeration I was talking about right there.
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@Everyone, I had to reword my previous comment: There is a dark side to human beings, across the colour spectrum. If you have more power, if you can act without being punished and there is not enough morals around you, you’ll allow this dark side to come out more and you will succeed in shutting up the people who have morals. In the US the white are in power, and there is a law called “stand your ground”, so ignorant white supremacists feel they have a licence to shoot. These white supremacists also live in some sort of ghettoes, surrounded by people who think like they do, so they are even less inhibited. It looks like there are huge pockets of such like-minded people in a lot of Western countries. How do we solve this problem without tarring all white people with the same brush. Tarring every black person with the same brush is what white supremacists do, and for sure, we do not want to have anything in common with them, and use the same strategy. Deepkchocolate is right though, most of these white supremacists are convinced they are good family people, faithful to their wives, godfearing etc. But they are also very ignorant. So there is a lot of work to do, and part of it is education.
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@deepdkchololate… just the sort of hatred and exaggeration I was talking about right there.
What did I exagerate about? White men don’t have a secret society where they wear sheets and hang black men from trees? U don’t ritually kill black people every damned day in this nation? Didn’t have race riots in this nation where white folks up and killed their black neighbors cause their black neighbors were doing just FINE without the white man? Then u don’t know nuthin’ about american history. Ur part of the problem..BYE!
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Its quite simple, Dunn felt the same way, Zimmerman did, because he had a gun, he felt bold and courageous and had a “i wish a motha faca would” moment.
Dunn, just like Zimmerman, instigated this confrontation, simple as that, he obviously had a issue with Davis, being a black youth and didn’t like the music he was listening too, so he felt as most white people feel.
They have authority over black people, so i am going to tell this black boy to turn down his music and if he doesn’t, i am going to attempt to provoke him into an argument, so i can shoot him and then say it was in self defense, so i can invoke the stand your ground law, i am not too concerned with any repercussions, being i am white and he is black, i’ll get off at best and at worst, i’ll get a slap on the wrist with a light sentence of 3-5 years and with time served and good behavior , i’ll be out in a few months.
Do you people know why, black on white crime is damn near, none existent ? Because black people know, if we are tried in a court of law for doing any violent act against a white person, 99.999999% of the time, we will be buried under the jail and won’t see freedom, ever!
The same is true in reverse, white people that kill black people, do because they know the law will have their back and give them light sentences or let them off all together.
I see young white boys and young black boys, playing loud music in their cars as i drive beside them, i feel i have no right to tell anyone to turn down their music in a “public” place. Now if Dunn was home and a neighbor did this, then he has every right to call the police to make a noise ordnance complaint but he wasn’t on private property that belonged to him, it was a public gas station, where he has no right to tell anyone to do anything.
I mean sheesh, i spend anywhere from 5-10 minutes at a gas station, if all i am doing is filling up, it makes no sense that he couldn’t tolerate such a small time of exposure to loud music, its not like he was going to be there for hours, he was just stopping to get some wine.
Its open season on young black males and old black males and black women in this country, it always has been and always will be, nothing has changes, except the way it is done.
There was another case against a black woman, earlier this year, it didn’t get any world wide attention, simply because there wasn’t a white person, involved.
Two black people were involved, a black woman, shot her gun under stand your ground, because her “abusive husband” was coming at her and she feared for her life. He has a history of domestic violence against her, yet she was sentenced for 20 years! there you go, another example of the law, working for white people and not black people. See the link below for details and tell me, it doesn’t make your blood boil… -_-
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504083_162-57434757-504083/fla-woman-marissa-alexander-gets-20-years-for-warning-shot-did-she-stand-her-ground/
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@ Beetlejuice Sorry ur overt masculinity had me fooled, Soften it up a bit, huh? Try shaving the ‘stache and inform ur husband that ur a female..lol..U will probably be hipped to the fact that he is a gay male who thought he was taking advantage of Proposition 40 when he married u.Ta ta! lol..
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@solesearch; You called it right.
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Agree, except that maybe “always” should be replaced with “largely”. It is conceivable that some incidents might not always be due to racism.
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@deepdkchocolate… unless you are talking about on the football field I never ever hurt a black person in my life. and even then I’m sure they were just bruised. Because I didn’t play passed middle school. In fact the only person I ever really hurt in my life was white and that was after my cousin was kicked down concrete steps in wildwood NJ. That was the only person I punched in the face with significant force and it wasn’t even my hardest. But if you are talking about white people in general, it’s a little more complicated then that. There are rich classes of whites who could care less about me or my family. My thing is the rich liberals who point fingers at regular whites and poor whites never would step foot in a poor black neighborhood… I work in them all the time and live within a half mile of Chester PA. These people need to shut up and let a real dialogue happen with people who are trying to coexist in interracial areas. Just one humble man’s opinion. …and as to your question as how you exaggerated? No poor whites are munching down on black genitalia…. You can be certain of that.l
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So if you can agree that rich whites don’t care much about poor whites especially those who live in the “segregated” zones. Then any fights that happen within these zones are then neutral…. But I would argue that when you lump any white face in the same bunch and black hatred takes it out on these poor whites then you are just as wrong. A quote from mayor nutter of Phlliy…. “It’s wrong when you do it too.”
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There are plenty of white voices who speak out against white racism. Some do it just to do it without looking at all the facts. I’ll do it myself…. but not blindly. And I struggle myself as a voice for the white victims to do it without lumping all black people as the “collective villains.” I think you abagond need to be mindful of that too and try to level the playing field. Lets have a fair dialogue and be honest of black villains if you want to point out white ones.
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@ dave, u may be a nice person, non-violent, hard-working trying to raise ur kids during these tough economic times, I salute U.. I don’t harbor hatred in my heart but , once again, i cannot ignore what is going on around me every day. Innocent black men being killed by law enforcement or civilians for no damned reason! Black women being vilified in the media, black americans being treated very dofferently from white americans. Just because I have something to say about it doesn’t mean I harbor hatred. Something has got to be done about this or it will blow up in all our faces. No doubt.
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@ Beetlejuice, stop focusing on me and get on topic, ur violating the TOS. Go away..
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They have authority over black people, so i am going to tell this black boy to turn down his music and if he doesn’t, i am going to attempt to provoke him into an argument, so i can shoot him and then say it was in self defense, so i can invoke the stand your ground law, i am not too concerned with any repercussions, being i am white and he is black, i’ll get off at best and at worst, i’ll get a slap on the wrist with a light sentence of 3-5 years and with time served and good behavior , i’ll be out in a few months.
He ain’t doing a day of time..
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@deepdkchocolate
Queen, all black males on this planet have a target on their back, whether we acknowledge it or not…Harsh Reality! We can’t be carefree like everybody else, because, doing so will get us killed. Jordan Davis is a product of the times. He lost sight of the fact that whitemen like Michael Dunn don’t give a s**t about him and his black brothers, so, he was careless. Playing loud music is harmless in the hood, outside of the hood it’s prblematic precisely because of white cops and crazy whitemen like Dunn who look for any excuse to kill black males. The 1980s and 1990s generation of black boys were lied to about race by so-called black leaders. America is a post-racial society, stop crying about racism, this is the bs that has been shoved down the throats of the current generation. As a result of being lied to, they have paid a heavy price for ignoring the realities of their status in this country and abroad. A lot of blackmen ignore race until they’re the ones in a casket. As i’ve said many times before and will continue to say, blackmen have no friends on this planet. Why i say that? Replace whitemen with other men, and the same s**t is gonna take place. A lot of us don’t like to hear that because it’s uncomfortable to reconcile that in our mind. Why would other men hate blackmen as such? Envy is the root cause of the problem. Other men are threatened by black males for whatever reason, and they act accordingly…Universal Truth! It’s politics, culture, sexuality, and a bunch of other ish all rolled into one. Sistas, stop lying to your sons about race? Be honest about what comes with being men of african descent. Not knowing the truth is deadly, Jordan Davis, Treyvon Martin, Rekia Boyd, and countless others will continue to pay a heavy price for not knowing the ugly truth about folk like Michael Dunn!!!
Tyrone
The Third Eye
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Thank U so much for telling The TRUTH Tyrone, Crystal clear. There is no reconciliation of what u just broke down, as a mother of two children…Sounds crazy I warn my son about whites all the time, and guess what…He gets it. In this present day and age I steer clear of them, just don’t feel comfortable around them.I feel that at any time whites could and would rise up and slaughter us in the streets like they did during the “red summer of 1919”. Keep ur third eye intact, Brother. We need ur third eye..
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@deepdkchocolate.
Do you know the saying: “divide and reign”. It’s the way the people in charge make sure the opposition are divided and squabble amongst themselves so the opposition has no chance to win. Rejecting the idea that whites can be on your side creates division. Obama would not be president if no whites had voted for him. But note that he would not be president either if he had not had an education. Your kids need to watch their backs (I agree with you there!!!) and to get a good education. White supremacists have some sort of tolerance for black people who stay among themselves and do not have kids with people of other races. They hate Obama even more for being mixed race. Look at yourself. You are exactly what supremacists hate, because it is obvious there were white people in your ancestry (and I have been to Africa, so I know what “paler blacks” look like). You thought I was pathetic because you assumed I am rejecting my black heritage. I think it is pathetic you do not acknowledge that you are the glorious product of races mixing. We often think of historical races mixing as the poor woman slave sexually abused by the white master. In that case, it is one nought for the blacks, because the descendants of these children are black and proud, and that existed in most cases for sure, but there were also stories of love and respect in conditions way more difficult than they are now. Peace, love, health and success to you and your children sister. I know you are in pain right now, but instead of being abusive to people who see things differently, get active, do things, help pople unite to make sure Jordan Davis’s Murderer gets a really fair trial from a black point of view, and a real sentence. White supremacists need to get the message.
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I am not being abusive to anyone I have a point of view just like everyone here. I am sorry that a black person who is capable of thought and discernment troubles u so..I am not a “paler black” I am black irrespective of who inhabits my ancestry and I am also african as my father was born and raised in Kwazulu Natal South Africa, I neverconfirmed or denied any “race-mixing” in my bloodlines so I don’t know where u r getting that from and I certainly don’t need u to tell me how to live my life or raise my kids.And I certainly am aware of the fact that every story told of miscegenation was not one of pain and oppression but is evident of a patriarchal system of things where white men were free to violate the laws they set in place to control everyone else,including white women.The fact that u feel it is necessary to talk down to me as if I were born yesterday is racist enough, how many of ur faces will u show me on this blog?
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@Deepdkchocolate. Sorry you feel I am talking down to you. I am glad you have clarified how you feel about who you are 🙂
I would not think of preventing you from having your own opinion. Can you say hand on heart you do the same to other people on this site??? Look at the adjectives you have used to answer others. I am not telling you how to educate your kids!
Why do you prefer to engage with negative things, rather than discuss the other things people mention??? Can you not invest your energy (you sound like a really dynamic and clever person) into something that will change the world?
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I have answered maybe two people on this site.I value anyone’s opinion but am not afraid to call out racism. That’s me, u cannot control me or how I respond or react to anyone here. Not really sure why u care, a lot of other people in this thread r being condescending rude and dismissive , ur not worried about them r u? No, here’s why, they r white. Somehow as a black person my views and sensibilities as such must be palatable to u and people like u, I don’t play those types of games and will always speak my mind and address the sickness that is plaguing this society… White supremacism. That is pretty much it.
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I care because I find you more interesting (or maybe I have missed some of the others cos they were not answering me, but you should note I have answered other people as well). But by golly you are contentious!!
There are many ways of fighting white supremacism. Talk is good, but talk is cheap.
I spend my life addressing white supremacism when I teach, accompany kids going to court on their own, and write letters for people who need legal aid etc etc. What do you DO?
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Ummm, wow. I am not here to justify and validate my beliefs and i am certainly not going to compromise my standing as a private citizen to placate some anonymous person on the internet, right now I am posting on this here blog, what I do in my personal life is separate and I do like to keep it that way…Thanks.
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@deepdkchocolate.
I understand you want to stay private. You live in the US like most other participants so you could be an easy target and besides, you do not owe us anything. I live in the UK at the moment, easy for me! I just wanted to make a point. And that’s it from me to you. If you celebrate Christmas, I wish you a great Xmas and a very rewarding 2013. May 2013 be less racist and less violent than the years before.
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I deleted some comments by Deep and Beetlejuice which were becoming an insulting match.
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Exactly I did not delete anything …
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It reminds me of a black mother who told in an interview that when the police had visited her to tell her that her son had died, and that peacefully, relatively painless and of fully natural causes, she thanked the Lord in prayer immediately …
I guess that many of Abagond’s readers can fully understand that reaction.
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@ teddy1975
And many cannot nor will not understand that reaction.
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Anyone who lives/has lived in a war zone will understand the Teddy 1975’s comment.
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@deepdkchocolate…. fair enough. I just think there are some grey areas that get ignored. The last thing I want to do is down play the fact that a young innocent 17 year old got killed by a drunk over antsy trigger happy yahoo. Seeing his mother’s face is very sad.
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cont. also a second look at your comments… reading between the lines I see that some of that was not literal and was actually a double meaning. I’ll bet you could be a good writer.
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I may be speaking out of turn though
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@ dave, it’s pretty heartbreaking..
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[…] Jordan Davis (abagond.wordpress.com) […]
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@everyone.
A lone gunman (youngish, white, male as they usually are, and he had several guns with him or in his car) has just shot down 28 people. The colour of the children’s and teachers’skins is irrelevant. What is relevant is 1-no community is safe 2-the danger posed by the number of guns available in the USA.
It’s not the guns that kill, agreed, it is the person holding a gun. But…as there are more guns than people, there is potentially a gun for every nutcase, every white supremacist, every bandit. Time to get rid of these guns. No other country in the western world has that many guns, no other country has that many senseless shootings. The US constitution was written at a time when spaces were huge and open and ourlaws and wild beasts roamed. Times have changed.
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@Annef1, why do you agree with the “guns don’t kill” slogan? Guns can turn people into killers, Jordan Davis became a victim of that.
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[…] Jordan Davis (abagond.wordpress.com) […]
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Guns by themselves don’t do much. It takes a person with a special state of mind for a gun to to be fired. But you are right, for some people, owning a gun in itself is enough to make them want to use it, and can result in killing. I have witnessed how people like to posture and pretned once they have a gun in their hands.
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@everyone
Just heard on the television someone saying that it is not so much the gun control laws, but it’s the hearts of people that needs to be changed. America I have got news for you: you are no more or less evil than any other nation in the world. You are as human as the whole global rest of us. Other nations have less such murder sprees as the one in Newtown and senseless killings as that of Jordan, because they have not got guns, and also, because war weapons are not available to the public.
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Again…
This is America.
One thing I can not understand. Why those advocating gun culture and gun ownership misquote the constitution every single time? Why could it be?
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@Sam
I do not have the exact words of the constitution in my head. Do you mean to say that the people who say the constitution guarantees their right to bear arms are misunderstanding what it really says? How can they be so sure of themselves then? How I hope you are right and that it can be proven and that the gun madness will stop.
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[…] was killed when police shot at Antonio Cross, whose gun shapeshifted into a mobile phone.2012: Jordan Davis – killed after threatening Michael Dunn with a shotgun rather than turning down his music. […]
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What is never talked about is white peoples justified fear of blacks. White people may not want to admit thier fear and black people may believe it is unjustified, however, statistics show otherwise. Blacks target whites for robberies, rapes etc at a far greater rate than the other way around. There are many thousands of nasty black gang members that hang out together committing a wide variety of crimes. Let’s be honest how many white gang members are there?
Let’s put it this way if a show like 48 hours depended on a large number of white murderers they would not have a show. In my opinion white people are afraid of blacks (as they should be) this justified fear sometime leads to making mistakes because every once in a while your dealing with a non threatening black person that meant no harm. Rare situation, but still one that does exist.
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It’s just too bad you left the the dog-faced, red-assed baboon out of your username, Arang-ape. It alone describes you perfectly.
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Oh, my bad. I see you managed to squeeze an “Oon” on in there! What a good dog-faced baboon you are! 😀
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Young black males are the most violent demographic of them all.
Black males between 15 and 60 years old, comprising 3.2 percent of the population of the USA, commit close to 50 percent of the murders in the USA, year after year.
A United States Department of Justice report which surveyed homicide statistics between 1974 and 2004 stated that of the crimes surveyed, 52.2% of the offenders were Black, 45.8% were White, and 2% were Other Races.
We appreciate black baby abortions because it reduces the NPM ratio in the US.
Everyone knows the higher the NPM the lower the property values, the extreme safty concerns due to violence, rape, murder, robberies and crime in general. So for every black abortion conducted today there are 100s of crimes that do not transpire tomorrow. One less welfare negro, one less future prisoner to feed, one less crack dealer, one less gang member. Damn merit awards should be given to these crime fighting black mothers who thankfully abort.
NPM = Negros per mile
No NPM = Exellent place to live.
Low NPM = good
High NPM = really bad- move quickly
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@Arang-ape-Oon-illa-Key
You know I have to wonder why it is that individuals like yourself are relying on 2004 stats when there are more recent stats out. My how telling that is. 🙂
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[…] Jordan Davis (2012) – killed by Michael Dunn, white. Dunn is in jail awaiting trial for first-degree murder. Trial set for February 3rd 2014. […]
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Getting nervous that the jury is taking so long to deliberate. The evidence seems obvious to convict Dunn. However I must remind myself that this trial is in FL…Prayers to Jordan Davis’ family.
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@ bygodsloveandgrace
In November I predicted a conviction despite my cynicism (realism?) about such cases:
I hope and pray I am right!
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Michael Dunn was found guilty of first-degree murder:
http://www.cnn.com/2014/10/01/justice/michael-dunn-loud-music-verdict/index.html
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I’m utterly shocked.
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I am glad they found him guilty.
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@Sharinalr: I am sure Dunn is shock as well.
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Wow.
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@Mary
I bet he is but behind bars with Bubba is where he most certainly belongs.
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@sharinalr: agreed i hope he gets life in prison. Jordan Davis deserves justice.
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I’m pleasantly surprised. That man needs to spend the rest of his natural life in a prison cell.
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Breaking news: Michael Dunn was sentenced to life in prison without parole:
http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2014/10/michael-dunn-sentenced-to-life-plus-105-years-for-killing-unarmed-teen-over-loud-music/
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It is good to see justice served. Though people should not be fooled into believing the system works.
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3 1/2 Minuets HBO’s film centers on the shooting death of teenager Jordan Davis by his killer Michael Dunn at a Florida gas station. It focuses on The Stand Your Ground laws. It’s worth tuning into i am watching it now.
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3 1/2 Minuets Tens Bullets is the name of the film.
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