“Blacks are just as racist as whites if not more so!” It is a common thing whites in America say. I do agree that blacks are racist, but just as racist? No way! Not even close.
For example, blacks have not:
- Kidnapped millions of whites at gunpoint and sold them into slavery.
- Worked whites to death by the millions.
- Forced millions of whites to work for free for hundreds of years based on their race.
- Wiped out people on three continents and taken their land.
- Sold their own children into slavery.
- Raped so many white women that most whites are now part black.
- Pushed a strange, racist standard of beauty on the world through the fashion and film industry.
- Wanted the right of calling whites a racist slur.
- Even had a slur for whites that is as racist and dehumanizing as the n-word.
- Burned crosses in front of white people’s houses.
- Burned down or bombed white neighbourhoods, towns and churches.
- Hanged white people, taking parts of their bodies as keepsakes.
- Had strange homosexual hang-ups about white men’s penises.
- Looked down on or hate those who are not racially pure.
- Caused high white unemployment rates through racist hiring practices – or even affirmative action.
- Regularly dehumanized white people in black mainstream culture.
- Had white minstrel shows.
- Regarded speaking their dialect of English properly as a sign of intelligence.
- Required whites to learn black history and literature.
- Based their sense of self-worth in part on looking down on whites.
- Made fun of murdered white people, like by selling Nicole Simpson target practice posters or laying on the ground to act like a dead Nicole Simpson (Simpsoning).
I am sure commenters can come up with some more.
I am also sure that Uncle Milton can find examples of some of the above – but that is the thing, they are so rare that they are not common knowledge.
True, blacks lack the power to carry out some of these. Like they do not control the labour market or the fashion industry. But many they could do and yet do not.
The Just As Racist model cannot account for this. It cannot account for Tyler Perry films, for example, which demean blacks, not whites. That is because it has a false understanding of how and why people are racist. It sees it as a common human failing – tribalism and so on. But that is not it: instead it comes down to power or the lack thereof.
In the case of blacks in America their lack of power means:
- They cannot carry out many of the above examples. Whites can.
- They do not have to be racist to feel good about their position in society. Whites must.
- They are in danger of internalized racism because whites flood the culture with racist messages as required by #2.
So for blacks the danger is not racism against whites but against themselves! Thus Mr Perry.
See also:
http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2012-05/iu-sft052412.php
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Two thumbs up Abagond!
But i have to ask what you mean by this statement:
I do agree that blacks are racist, but just as racist?
And maybe you already clarified in the post, but i just missed it.
Cheers! 🙂
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With the exception of 9, 10 and 18 those are false because you either grossly exagerated what whites did or blacks have done something similar. More importantly. once again you’re attempting to use historical grievances to excuse black criminality today.
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“They do not have to be racist to feel good about their position in society. Whites must.”
There is no way this statement can be post-qualified to refer to only “some whites”, but then we always knew that was pulled out when caught in such blanket generalized nonsense. .
It is also complete horsepuckey as a claim, as are some others in the post.
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@ Duck
Since when on God’s green earth have I EVER excused black criminality? You need to read what I WRITE instead of trying to read my mind – you are not good at it.
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Abagond:
I agree with you wholeheartedly. Black people have the right to be pissed-off about what was done to our people by whites on this planet. Any white man or woman that says otherwise, we know what’s up with them. The enslavement of african people made whites relevant on this planet. Before Portugal and Spain got the ball rollin, europe was a “Hot Mess.” White folks were fighting with each other left and right, they were dying by the truckload from diseases such as the “Black Plague.” Their population was miniscule in comparison to that of africans and asians. Whites know that they have no grand history to brag about, which is why they subscribe to “racial theft” as a code of conduct. Without power and wealth, whiteness is irrelevant. They don’t wanna go back to what they were in the beginning, which is miserable.
Tyrone
Race Decoded
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abagond
I was too quick to press enter and there’s no way to edit. I meant to say “black racism” rather than “black criminality”.
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Are you perhaps being a bit harsh on Tyler Perry? Granted his films aren’t high art, but they are generally built around at least one uplifting core theme, often involving either self respect by women or the value of family bonds. This deserves some credit, even if those themes might be simplistically stated using stereotype characters. Further, Tyler Perry himself is a black businessman/entrepreneur who has created a high level of financial success within one of the more visciously racists segments of the American economy.
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Tyrone
Wrong. Europeans had a higher standard of living almost 1000 years ago than most Africans do today.
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2010/12/101205234308.htm
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^So? What constitutes as a “higher standard” of living is always subjective among different cultures.
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@duckduckgoofs
You are so wrong and misguided. How can you say that without blinking an eye? Africa was the source of knowledge and innovation that got them over the hump so to speak. Duck, you know that? I’m assuming you’re an educated enuf person to know fact from fiction. Duck, don’t excuse the insanity of whites on this planet just because you’re half-white. Biracial folk who are half-white should avoid making fools of themselves on this blog and other blogs. Ya’ll are not black, duck, black folk are not obligated to care about you one bit…Recognize! This is the slippery-slope that is “mulattoness” black people. Duck, feels the need to ignore the truth because he doesn’t wanna upset the white parent…Too Bad! Duck, you need to grow up, black people are not feelin’ you like that. Mutt or Blackman…You Decide?
Tyrone
Race Decoded
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@duckduckgoofs:
“Europeans had a higher standard of living almost 1000 years ago than most Africans do today.”
Yeah. They lived in cities where shit was dumped on the streets and porks ate the crap and drunks during the night because they were the only sanitation system around. They believed that werewolves, devils and witches were real, burned people at stakes, ate some of them during crusades, 3 out 5 children died before they reached the age of five.
Average living age was around 45 because the poor food and hard conditions killed off majority of the population outside the rich and powerful, they had no knowledge of medicines, herbal and natural medicines were banned by the church who also tortured and slaughtered innocent people on a whim and forbade reading from poor folks.
More than 9 out 10 could not read or write. People took baths perhaps once a year because it was a sin. They had puss coming from their ears and private parts, they had no toilet paper, they had no clean water in most of the places of Europe, they had regular hungers because the weather destroyed the crops, they lived in small huts with animals on winter and had perhaps one candle and fireplace to warm and for light, in cities they had stone buildings with no central heating and regular folks lived in houses with one or two rooms with perhaps 5 to 7 kids, rats were all over the palce as well as ticks and other parasites. Even the mighty lived in cold and damp stone castles were they shivered on cold and wet seasons beside the one fire place.
When ever the local lord wanted he could rape anyone at will, boys included, and when ever the noble wanted to kill the commoners, they did and could do so by the law, There was no protection for commoners what so ever, not even in principle. They were feodal slaves mostly, toiling very hard labour, depending their livelyhood on a whim of their masters. They copuld not move without permission, they could not settle without permission, they could not hunt, fish, collect berries and mushrooms from the forests because they all belonged to the local lords or to kings. So if you ran out of food, you died. Normal average life was hard, short and full of terror and fear from the robbers, outlaws, knights, men at arms, lords and noble men, church and supertition.
That was the average living standard of the average european 1000 years ago. In Africa they at least have some laws, roads, doctors, medicines, transportation, education, all of which the average european did not have 1000 years ago nor could he even imagine that they could be his one day. His mission was to be at disposal of his masters and wait for the purgatory which was surely coming according the church. It was more than likely that you went to hell after death since almost everyone was a sinner, according to the church. So, perhaps they did not have the living standard you claim they had…
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The European was dependent on cultural theft as a means to ‘progress’, and managed to pull themselves up to be world leaders. That alone contributes to their sense of self-worth
…”In Africa they at least have some laws, roads, doctors, medicines, transportation, education, all of which the average european did not have 1000 years ago nor could he even imagine that they could be his one day….”(Sam).
While Africa (the continent) may have had a civilization unmatched by the euros at that time, they let it slip out of their hands, and became the global ‘cash cow’ for the Arab, the Portuguese, the European, of course these other cultures, groups are going to develop a sense of superiority over the African. Currently, Asians are ‘going in’ on African resources, and stand to repeat what nonAfrican cultures were successful at.
While I lament what the European and other racial, ethnic groups did to Africa, and what they continue to do there, and here in America to Black Americans, I can’t help but look at the African, and ask, “what gives?”, why were these groups able to raise themselves up over you? Enslave you, take and control your gold, diamond mines, minerals?
I understand and appreciate the central idea of this post, that is how whites subvert or derail discussions pertaining to their racist and white supremacist mindset, but darn it, they took over because they saw a ‘weakness’, exploited it, made off with it, and prospered.
They utilized the ‘by any means necessary’ strategy in obtaining world domination. Murdering, raping, stealing, lying, manipulation, terror, all of that ‘worked’ for them. Their denial of it, is par for the course. They lied, cheated and stole to get it, they’re using the same techniques and principles, to maintain this ‘supremacy’.
China is not far behind….
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@Bulanik
What we call western civilization today, was born out of african and asian culture. This is the fundamental point that black people should never forget. Of course, it’s easy for whites to claim the mantle of “most civilized” when they built their empire on the backs of native-americans, africans, and southeast asians. With power, anybody can shape history into being whatever they want it to be. Remember, our frame of reference began with slavery because our history was not passed down to future generations as it would have organically. We were stripped of our africanness and history, therefore, we don’t know the greatness that we hail from. Bottomline, the truth will always shine thru…Always!!!
Tyrone
MindScape
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“5. Sold their own children into slavery.”
As a mixed person, this to me is the most chilling and telling. People have done this in many cultures, but for some reason, with the surrounding circumstances, this horrifies me. I guess because there was this idea of “we are respectable people not savages, family, laughter around the Christmas tree, love and community, blah blah blah” and then they sold their kids.
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Oyan
China could have done the same ish that the euros did, but they chose not to at the time. China turned inward, thus, they did not “explore” the world as whitemen did. They had the means to do so, their ships were just as large as those of Portugal and Spain. A warning to black people, we need to chill with the people of color ish as it relates to asians and native-americans. All non-black men can and will exploit the natural resources of africa, black culture, blackwomen, etc. As blackmen, we assume that whitemen are the only race of men that want “blackness on a silver platter.” Asian men have a chip on their shoulder, they feel slighted by God. In their minds, they have nothing to lose by creating chaos on this planet. This is why black folk in africa and outside of the motherland should be wary of chinese intervention on the continent. Think about it sistas and brothas…whitemen are too light and asian men are too short in a lot of ways. They would love to get their hands on blackwomen, and grow up if you know what i mean. Both groups of men see blackwomen as their “Silver Bullet” to get them over the hump. It always comes back to sistas black people…Always! As black people, we have to stay 2 steps ahead of the game at all times…Ditto! Tyrone doesn’t generalize about ish…It’s Real!!!
Tyrone
MindScape
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@abagond Well Said!
As a white woman…I am wondering when some of the people on here are going to realize that
1. Coming on here to claim “black crime statistics” in rebuttal to your articles and personal experience and feelings…makes them look as though they are defending white racism and racist themselves. Of course there are some that are racist and know it…but I think others are blind to it.
2. You are presenting things that are facts and the truth…and too many people do not want to accept the truth because it hurts…but that is no excuse to try and deflect from it. If it hurts…then take a deep breath count to ten, one hundred, or what ever number that will make you realize that you need to:
a. Accept that if it does not apply to you as an individual…then don’t
b. Accept that if it does not apply to you as an individual…then don’t try to deflect from it or defend it by pointing out “black crime statistics”
c. Admit to yourself that it does happen or has happened…even if you have not done it as an individual.
d.Accept that if it does not apply to you as an individual…it does not give you the right to tell someone they are wrong for their feelings that are expressed from their personal experiences.
Honestly abagond, I respect you as a person and a writer, but I feel you have entertained them enough. I feel that we are all beating our heads against the wall trying to get through to them. I am starting to realize and feel that it is not your obligation or anyone else’s for that matter, to continually acknowledge their racist presence and give them fuel to continue burning. So I asking that you…please limit your focus more to the individuals that have integrity and more knowledge of respectable communication techniques. I apologize if this comes off as harsh…that is not my intent…I am just drained from all the ignorance. 🙂
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oops…a. Accept that if it does not apply to you as an individual…then don’t take offense to it.
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I can’t help but look at the African, and ask, “what gives?”, why were these groups able to raise themselves up over you? Enslave you, take and control your gold, diamond mines, minerals?
I know: Two Cradle Theory; also i think its faulty to say that we just allowed these things to happen when clearly their was always resistance. Big complicated ball of wax.
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Tyrone Biracial folk who are half-white should avoid making fools of themselves on this blog and other blogs. Ya’ll are not black, duck, black folk are not obligated to care about you one bit…Recognize! This is the slippery-slope that is “mulattoness” black people.
It looks like you just shot the hell out of abbie’s 14th point. Dumbazz. haha
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@phoebeprunelle
I agree. I also think that some people raise those type of questions and assumptions about slavery based off of current circumstance and neglect to think about the the circumstances of times of slavery. I also feel they neglect to look up key terms on google….like “Slave Resistance” and “Slave Uprisings”. There is a wealth of knowledge online.
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@Mamzer HaKodesh
“then they sold their kids.”—I personally believe this to be a big misconception. I don’t think they just sold their kids. Wars happened and people were taken as slaves in wars. Also people gave themselves into servitude when they owed debt. Heck Europeans sold their daughter for status all the time. It actually was common place.
Now I was not living back then and I am taking a wild guess here but at some point Europeans became impatient with buying, selling, and trading. They had the means to just take and thus they did. Same with Indians or any other nation they considered to be savage. I think after several trades the Africans had some type of trust with the Europeans which made them easy pickin and they had no idea what hit them.
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@duckduckgoofs
More importantly. once again you’re attempting to use historical grievances to excuse black *criminality* today
How does black *racism* manifest itself in your day to day life?
Do you think it would be fair to say in any instances you may have experienced of the above that it is a ‘reaction’ to a particular situation rather than a deeply held belief?
Do you honestly believe that black people/people of colour en masse, base their self worth by looking down on whites?
If so, how would they be advantaged by doing so?
*word changed to ‘racism’ by duckduckgoofs in a later post
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I can say for one I am so sick of the argument of “but you should your own into slavery” and people who say it do not have the basic knowledge to further why these this occurred. This is why I bring big fault to this ridiculous educational system. All it teaches is blacks were slaves, Indians were savage, nothing on the Asians, and glory to Europeans.
It breeds ignorance and that ignorance opens their mouth to speak. Is thinking so hard these days? Is it really easier for someone to tell you something and not seek further education. ***shakes head****
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Co-sign with Sam.
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@ Sharina:
I think mostly he’s referring to the practice of white slave owners selling their bi-racial children borne of their “liaisons” with slave women.
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@ grin and bear it
Thank you for clarifying that. Ok so ignore that rant Mamzer HaKodesh.
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@Mamzer HaKodesh
I will note however that if the kid was considered white enough and could pass as a white man or women, then I don’t think they sold them. My great grandfather passed this bar. He was mixed, but was considered more white and owned land, could vote, etc. People were none the wiser, but he always put negro on his census. My grandfather did the same.
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@demerera How does black *racism* manifest itself in your day to day life?
You mean aside from being shot?
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Abagond et al,
We can expect deflections and derailings from the white and black posters who do not fight against racism in the world but merely want to excuse and ultimately uphold it.
It becomes tiresome after awhile arguing with them. I say let’s not even respond to the deflections. Here, Here.
Cheers! 🙂
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@duckduckgoofs
demerera: How does black *racism* manifest itself in your day to day life?
You mean aside from being shot?
You write this as if I should know – I dont hence the question. Has this ‘coloured’ your view of black people as a whole then or, do you feel you are able to discern who is decent from who means you harm?
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demerera
Are you asking whether I hold a grudge? Nope. He’s dead.
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@duckduckgoofs
Are you asking whether I hold a grudge? Nope. He’s dead.
No. My original questions were not asked in relation to you being shot – clearly I wasn’t aware of this at the time!
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@pheobeprunelle
Agreed! Cheers! 🙂
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@phoebeprunelle
I think it is hard for some black posters who just do not see it. Contrary to belief not everyone in this room grew up in areas with constant racism and thus they do not know it when they see it.
I am one of those blacks that has not grown up surrounded by proof of racism. We live in a neighborhood were it just has not happened to me or my children. Now in my area it has happened to my husband. There are 2 good instances that he has relayed to me of it happening. When he told me about it I was more angry than him.
As far as the issue at hand of the argument “blacks are just as racist.” I am waiting on someone to tell me how. I personally do not see that because I have yet to see blacks lynch a white man; I have yet to see a black man call a white man a racial slur, I have yet to see a black man act so disgusted and rude to a white man. My own uncle was nearly beaten to death by white men and he has not held a grudge even though he has not been able to use his right leg properly for 30 years now.
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“I am waiting on someone to tell me how.”—Just to clarify because this may seem a bit confusing.
When I make this statement I am referring to the race realist or whatever that will come in the room with there, but blacks comments.
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According to the world of whiteness, appearing racist is much more debilitating than actually BEING racist.
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@truthbetold
According to the world of whiteness, appearing racist is much more debilitating than actually BEING racist.
I wish there was a ‘Like’ button 🙂
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According to the world of blackness not being racist means being an “uncle tom”.
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Yes appearance over substance. They think just because you appear a certain way, then it negates the filth that lies underneath and we all know underneath the glamour that is whiteness lies some of the most vile repulsive goo.
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@ duckduckgoofs
That is where you are wrong. In my view an uncle tom is someone that condones everything a white “racist” does. The most extreme case being Uncle Ruckus of Boondocks.
“The phrase “Uncle Tom” has also become an epithet for a person who is slavish and excessively subservient to perceived authority figures, particularly a black person who behaves in a subservient manner to white people; or any person perceived to be a participant in the oppression of their own group.”—Here is a nice definition for you.
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sharina
That may be your view. But I see blacks use it to smear anyone who isn’t as racist as them.
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@Sharina
I have seen and had directed at me, black on white racism …but in my 37 years…those few instances do not even compare to the amount of white on black racist moments that I have seen or been a party too. So in my opinion, I am in no position to claim black people are just as or more racist than white people. Even after experiencing it directed at me I did not assume all black people were racist because by that point I had been out of my little box of a white racist town and had many black friends and acquaintances that were not racist. Based off of my experiences here and in other countries I find it quite ridiculous for those people to make that claim.
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@ Michelle,
What made you decide to change?
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umm…please correct me if I am wrong…but my understanding of the term “uncle tom” was used by black slaves towards other black slave that sucked up to their white “masters” and snitched and lied on other black slaves.
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@ duckduckgoofs
That only tells me that it is actually being used wrong. Thus me putting in the definition to clarify it’s true meaning.
“The phrase “Uncle Tom” has also become an epithet for a person who is slavish and excessively subservient to perceived authority figures, particularly a black person who behaves in a subservient manner to white people; or any person perceived to be a participant in the oppression of their own group.”
Now what each of us consider racism is different as well. For example if me an a black person were having a comment and he said black women are on welfare and I countered with so are white women, then I would consider him an uncle tom. To him it is ok that white women are on welfare but some how a crime for the black women that are on it.
If you don’t mind could you provide an example of the occurrence of Uncle Tom used to smear anyone who isn’t as racist as they are.
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@ Michelle
Thank you for sharing your experiences. It is really nice to hear from white posters such as yourself. I love hearing the experience for both sides whenever possible. 🙂
I have read some arguments along these lines and they all seem to act like this black racism happens twice as much as white racism.
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@Wilson
Sorry, I will reply about it in a little bit…I want to share it with you but I need to go bake with my kids before they lose their minds. It is hard for me to sum it up in just a few words. 🙂
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@ Michelle
I believe your definition of “Uncle Tom” is close to what The Wikipedia definition gave as an uncle tom.
To transform it into today’s terms: It would be a black person that really just follow anything a white “racist” believes to be right. For example: All blacks are on welfare and food stamps, blacks are dumb, etc. I am sure others can think of maybe better definitions for today and examples.
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Michelle
If you grew up in a “little box of a white racist town” then you probably wouldn’t have seen many instances of black on white racism. But a lot of people who were unfortunate to attend a black school in a black city would probably have a much different experience whether they were white, asian, hispanic or even mixed. When I hear someone say something ridiculous like, “I got called the inward” or “they said I had boonga lips I can’t believe someone would even think something that petty qualifies for racism. I don’t even count slurs and what not. If someone is counting insults then they’ve had it pretty gd easy.
http://www.usatoday.com/news/education/2010-09-06-race-philadelphia_N.htm
If blacks are doing this ish to asians what do you think they’re doing to whites when they get the chance? Its just not reported. And I know its not reported because I’ve seen lots of bad situations go unreported.
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Sharina
As far as public examples, Thomas Sowell and Clarence Thomas are continually called “Uncle Toms” and not just because their names have Thomas in it. Neither one of those guys are “uncle toms” according to your definition. They’re even pro black. They’re just not racist. I’ve even heard Louis Gates get called an “uncle tom” a couple of times. Any time someone black doesn’t take the black “side” they risk it.
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@ duckduckgoofs
The article you brought up. Another thing that is not mentioned is whites treatment of Asians. I rarely see that yet I can find several Asians that have been talked down to by whites and treated horribly by whites.
My point is where there is a black “racist” person doing it, then there is a white “racist” person doing it as well. You always only seem to pick the blacks doing any type of crime and ignore the whites doing this same crime. Is it more acceptable for a white to do it than a black? No it is not acceptable for either to do it last time I checked.
As far as Thomas Sowell and Clarence Thomas. I don’t know much about them, so I will brush up a bit before I give an opinion.
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Somehow I knew duck would loose his marbles over this post and take up the battle on behalf of whiteness.
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@duckduckgoofs
If blacks are doing this ish to asians what do you think they’re doing to whites when they get the chance? And I know its not reported because I’ve seen lots of bad situations go unreported.
So have I on the converse, and many other examples from every which race.
What does this prove?
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@Sharina
Thanks for clarifying 🙂 Sorry, I read the book years ago and that is what my conclusion was and has been ever since. I never really heard it used otherwise in a conversation until now. lol
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@ DuckDuckgoofs
Based on a few bit readings. I have noticed that they fall into the category that most blacks throw black conservative.On the surface I have had little issues with what they were saying, but underlining I noticed a double standard in some of the reading and when I visited a blog site I noticed others see the same.
The problem is that it is ok for whites, but not for blacks and that is what he is pretty much saying if you sum it up.
“While many whites may be annoyed by Jeremiah Wright’s words, a year from now most of them will probably have forgotten about him. But many blacks who absorb his toxic message can still be paying for it, big-time, for decades to come.”—In this quote he assume blacks are just going to hold on the Mr. Wright’s words. I myself do not remember those words, but oh how I am thrown into the mix because I am in fact black. I can tell you many other blacks that do not remember what Mr. Wright has said or follow it as gospel.
“Why should young blacks be expected to work to meet educational standards, or even behavioral standards, if they believe the message that all their problems are caused by whites, that the deck is stacked against them?”—This comment is just increasingly troubling to me because not all blacks believe that. Not one person can even say the majority. Did he ignore the whites that believe all their problem is the result of blacks? He needs to be fair and to be fair will acknowledge that the issue resides with people from each side of the fence but not all.
This is why he got the title Uncle Tom. He is blaming blacks for issue that both parties are making an issue. Now this is just one article but I will continue to search for more.
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Sharina, Demerera
So what you two are basically saying is that “whites are just as racist?” Are you using it as a “fig leaf”? Ironic that you would both do the reverse of what Abagond has accused whites of saying in his last two posts don’t you think? And that’s exactly what he accuses them of being dishonest for saying! Are you two being dishonest for saying it?
You ask what my point is. My point is the same as yours. Unfortunately, abagond has created a whole blog dedicated to what you two just objected to.
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@ duckduckgoofs
What I am saying is there are racist on both sides of the fence. Hence my quote of “No it is not acceptable for either to do it last time I checked.”
If you stop trying to twist my words you would know that much.
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@abagond
Am I wrong for thinking that some of the things you say in your blogs have sarcasm in them when you are making your point and not to take them as some people read them to be racist?
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sharina
I’m not twisting your words. And I agree there are racists on both sides of the fence. I’ll even go further and say that everyone is biased. Everyone. I am. You are. And that goes double for the people who think they aren’t.
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@ duckduckgoofs
In what Abagond has mention, can you sit and truly say blacks have done this to the extent of whites? I will wait for that answer.
In the meantime lets address some things. I have not condone racism of either party so please feel free to find where I have because your constant babble about me being dishonest is getting annoying.
Secondly You are constantly harping about black racism and oh how bad black people are, yet you ignore how bad white racism is. “If blacks are doing this ish to asians what do you think they’re doing to whites when they get the chance?”—You made this statement and now I ask you upfront instead of in between the lines…If whites are doing this ish to Asians then what do you think they are doing to blacks. Guess what duck? More than likely worse or the same ( and yes I am aware the comment goes with the link to the article). You need to start asking yourself that question sometimes. This issue of racism is not just a black issue it is a white one as well and for you to always laugh it off and pretend that is it not is just unbelievable. You should see a issue if you are constantly trying to twist words to get the results you want but hey I guess you don’t.
This particular post is questioning if black or can blacks really be as racist and based on the 1 through 21. I don’t think blacks can but does that mean that their are not black racist. I am sure there are. Do they amount to the amount of white racist? No.
Does it mean I condone black racism over white? NO. I DON’T CONDONE RACISM PERIOD. But I am not stupid enough to believe that white racism is somehow less than black racism or that white racism does not exist.
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@duckduckgoofs
Wow, did you just accuse them of use the “fig leaf argument” because they tried to point out that there is racism on both sides? Do you think that racism is some one-sided game where people of color keep perpetuating it to hurt the poor white folk’s fee fees? Because that comment just shows that you either are delusional enough to think that, or you’re just trying to cover up your bigotry and doing a terrible job of it.
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Duckgoofs, you have aluded to some kind of shooting incident in your life, and, now implied the guy is dead…why dont you just come out and tell us your experiance…you might as well clarify it since you have refferred to it a couple of times..why all the mystery? you can tell us your mix, you are behind a computor screen , no one can really see you are do anything to you if you tell us
Its hard for me to ackowledge black racism. We white people created it, we are responsibe for it, surly in American society, we perpetuated it etc….I agree with what Brothawolf and Matari have aluded to before, black people in America can be biased , but, not racist
Its its hard to be racist while backpeddling
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@Abagond’s main post
“True, blacks lack the power to carry out some of these. Like they do not control the labour market or the fashion industry. But many they could do and yet do not.”
They could? Which ones?
Generally, the post doesn’t make sense to me, because it is supposed to compare two kinds of racism, but it isn’t really about racism. It’s about the consequences of racism. The post is like saying that since a burning match isn’t as much of a threat as a burning oil well the two kinds of fire are very different. Not really. The conditions are different, not fire itself. Put the match near dynamite (give it more power) and its fire could cause much more damage.
Are the consequences of white racism much greater than the consequences of black racism? Sure! Are the two kinds of racism different? I don’t see a reason to say that they are. It’s power, the conditions that are vastly different.
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Yeah Duck, tell us your experience.
You keep alluding to it. I figure maybe that’s why you take the stand you do…?
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@duckduckgoofs
So what you two are basically saying is that “whites are just as racist?”
Here is what was said:-
Duckduckgoofs: – If blacks are doing this ish to asians what do you think they’re doing to whites when they get the chance? And I know its not reported because I’ve seen lots of bad situations go unreported.
Demerera:- So have I on the converse, and many other examples from every which race.
What does this prove?
You deliberately evaded answering my earlier questions, instead, sidetracking and demonstrating your own experience of about black racism. Wasnt this your way of showing by example this glaring example of black racism/violence and therefore ‘proving’ that the title of this particular post is correct – that blacks are just as racist?
Had you answered my earlier questions truthfully and honestly, they probably would have revealed that there is racism on all sides. The question copied here (above) is saying the same thing.
From your posts it appears that the purpose of most of your posts are to ‘re-dress’ the perceived imbalance where this blog which looks at issues that affect PoC, certainly this is what your commentary seems to suggest. Then, I look at your comments, such as the one above and I see someone who is not interested in equality, but someone who is afraid and is willing to spread baseless propaganda because of his own negative feelings.
I think you are the dishonest one – a person with his own prejudices who, following his own unpleasant experience has ‘tarred’ all PoC with the same brush. You come on here to vent – nothing more, nothing less.
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@ duckduckgoofs
I am going to agree with you that everyone is biased and this has to do with the areas we were raised in. You can ignore my further post of twisting my words or anything of the sort as you have clarified.
Regardless racism is still and will remain an issue that both sides need to address.
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White Racism: White supremacy, white’s are biologically better, cleverer etc, even more divine. Blacks are the Opposite, this is emphasized. Whites have to constantly put down Black People as a matter of course.
Black Racism: Black people talking about how racist white people are. Black people trying to shield themselves from white racists and white racial culture.
@ eco,
“Are the two kinds of racism different? I don’t see a reason to say that they are.”
——————————————————
You therefore must be white.
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@ Demerera
Very well said.
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Bias?
What does bias have to do with anything? I am biased towards my family and relatives.. That doesn’t mean everyone else is subhuman, doesn’t mean I put down everyone else.
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@The Noun
Wow, did you just accuse them of use the “fig leaf argument” because they tried to point out that there is racism on both sides?
Another dishonest tactic to sidetrack. Not content with the fact that he can’t pin me down as being a ‘racist’ and thereby justifying his negative feelings about PoC/supporters of PoC, he conjurs up some nonsensical argument to ‘out’ me, putting words in my mouth. *SMH*
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@ wilson
That is true and I agree with you. I am biased because of how I was raised to believe in certain things, but I will never point down another race because of it. You make a very good point.
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@eco
“Are the two kinds of racism different? I don’t see a reason to say that they are.”
Yes they are…White Racism has held the power in Busninesses and Government since the establishment of our country. Sure they “allow” a select few black men and women to hold positions of power in congress and judicial areas but they are very selective of who will fit their criteria. Yes there are Black Owned Businesses and even communities that are entirely black owned and run,,.but they are much fewer than the White Man’s. Education is lacking primarily because they do not want to see black men and women succeeding like them. Opportunities are often given to white men and women and not to black men and women, that are just as educated or even more, when they can get away with it and not be held to the constitutional laws. Sure there are white people, like me, that has knowledge, education, and experience in Business Management that have no qualms with helping out fellow Americans no matter what race they are. But the sad truth is that from my experience the majority of white men and women that I have met in my 37 years are racist and will flat out tell you “I would never help a N____R to succeed!” and other similar comments.
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oops…Businesses
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* put
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@Michelle
But the sad truth is that from my experience the majority of white men and women that I have met in my 37 years are racist and will flat out tell you “I would never help a N____R to succeed!” and other similar comments.
Do the kind of people that you talk about here know what your stance is? Does their behaviour change towards you at all i.e. are you seen as a sympathiser and ostracised as a result? Or, have you met any people who are respectful of your viewpoint?
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@wilson
“Black Racism: (…)”
What you call black racism is how black people react to white racism. I don’t think that’s a proper definition of black racism. Generally, the definitions of racism that include the concept of “power” tend to be immoral and (arguably) senseless. They usually only sound reasonable when you are thinking of whole racial groups instead of analyzing particular situations. In a particular situation a white person doesn’t necessarily have more power than a black person and black racism doesn’t have to be a reaction.
@Michelle
You are discussing consequences of racism instead of racism. I’ve already mentioned that I do think the consequences of white racism are much more severe than the consequences of black racism.
Racism is: “the belief that all members of each race possess characteristics, abilities, or qualities specific to that race, especially so as to distinguish it as inferior or superior to another race or races:” (Oxford dictionary)
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@Demerera
Yes everyone that I have encountered, in person, since I was young has been questioned by me when they make comments…but it wasn’t until I was around 16 that I had the courage to condemn them for it and it wasn’t till last week, when I found this blog, that I realized I have said things that I didn’t know were hurtful and racist. Yes their behavior changes instantly towards me…some try to “make me see the light” and are very brash if I don’t agree with them. I have been ostracized most of my life…even by family members. I have one friend, who a I can only talk to on the phone because she moved out of state, that is respectful and shares my viewpoint and I have my husband and my children that I am trying to raise with awareness, compassion, and integrity…and this blog is and will continue in helping me in my efforts. I is lonely…but I refuse to compromise my views just to have friends.
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@eco
Racism=Consequences of Racism=Racism (Michelle’s Views From Her Mind, 2012)
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Good lord. How many responses are directed at me? No doubt someone will accuse me of evading their questions if I don’t address each and every point raised. I’m getting a little burned out so Ill be brief.
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@ Sharina
I’m assuming you wrote the response before you read my last one. So most of it probably doesn’t apply any more.
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@Demerera You deliberately evaded answering my earlier questions, instead, sidetracking and demonstrating your own experience of about black racism. Wasnt this your way of showing by example this glaring example of black racism/violence and therefore ‘proving’ that the title of this particular post is correct – that blacks are just as racist?
Most of the racism I’ve seen and experienced has been from blacks not whites. I occasionally get a smart ass comment from someone white. That’s about it. I’m not going to list incidents. Why would I? It’s personal and no one would respect it, anyway.
I think you are the dishonest one – a person with his own prejudices who, following his own unpleasant experience has ‘tarred’ all PoC with the same brush.
I don’t care. Is that honest enough for you? Giggity Giggity.
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@ TheNoun
My real purpose was not to accuse them of using a “fig leaf”. But to show that its natural to fight back when someone is getting hit. Hence, abagond’s posts about white rebuttals are hardly some great revelation.
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@ Wilson, BR549, etal
What do you care? That’s a rhetorical question. I don’t really care why you care. Not trying to be rude. Just tired. I’m going to take a nap.
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@ eco.
By the definition you have given, speaking in terms of a collective and not individual cases, (for example, illustration, I can say, cars on the roads in the USA are roadworthy. This is generally true but not absolutely so, there are some cars on the roads that are not) I would say black racism doesn’t exist.
I would say the only kind of racism that does exist in a general sense is white racism, since it is whites in general who think they “possess characteristics, abilities, or qualities specific to that race, especially so as to distinguish it as superior to another race or races.” I would take it further and say as a result of white racism, some blacks or in a collective sense, blacks might feel inferior due to internalized racism.
It remains that the originating factor is White Racism which spins off and creates internalized racism on its target.
You can now talk about individual cases if you wish to derail.
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@ Duck,
I wouldn’t classify it as caring or not caring… just interested. It’d help put context to your arguments otherwise it appears you just revel in what you do i.e. play down white racism.
@Michele,
If you’re still up to it, I’d be interested in hearing what made you change.
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“Like they do not control the labour market or the fashion industry. But many they could do and yet do not.”
I agree with that statement.
I’d like to give an example to further illustrate my point.
The movie Hancock
That movie was a disgrace.
Period.
I literally puked in my mouth when I watched it.
Shame on Will Smith for taking part of this crap.
For those of you who haven’t seen or heard of that movie before, here’s a little synopsis:
John Hancock (a black man) is an irresponsible alcoholic superhero who everybody (mostly white folks) hates due to his disregard for public property. How is that compare to the honorable Peter Parker or the role model Clark Kent? Anyway, Ray Embrey (a white man) takes upon himself to revitalize Hancock’s image after being saved by the infamous superhero. Hancock agrees to be jailed (as per Embrey’s plan) in order to show the public that he would be useless in prison and of better use fighting crime. The scheme put together by Embrey is indeed successful. It is revealed during the movie that Embrey’s wife (a white woman) was previously married to Hancock. However, the longer they stay close to each other, the weaker they get which could potentially lead to death for both of them. The movie concludes with Hancock saving everyone and exiling as far as possible from his “love” in order to preserve his ability to fight crime.
In order words:
An asswhole, useless, hopeless, drunk, superhero black male is despised by the rest of the population because he keeps breaking $hit around him. Dorky white guy sees a golden opportunity to show off his grandeur and help this desperate African American because he is too stupid to figure out himself how to be a great human being. Dorky white guy puts him in jail in order to cleanse him of his bad habits and rehabilitate him. The black man is now somewhat a well tamed dog ready to serve the white folks to the best of his abilities. The black male learns during his epic journey that he should stay away from white women otherwise he will die. At the end, the black man is reformed and saves the world while the dorky wise white guy keeps the white women for himself.
That is the sort of propaganda Hollywood loves to feed their audience with. Do you guys really think that this movie was written to make PoC feel good about themselves? Do you really think that Will Smith didn’t know what he was signing up for prior to make that movie? Think again.
Will Smith (and all the other so called back superstars) is a Neo-Uncle Tom. It is in his best interest to make sure he pleases “tha boss”. The budget for Hancock was $150 million and the movie made about $624 000 000 in the box office. Do you really think the money generated from that movie came from PoC in America? Of course not. The revenues most likely came from people who really felt good about themselves after watching that movie: white folks AKA “tha boss”.
I am pretty sure you have heard them before too. All those white girls/women exclaiming shamelessly while walking out of the movie theatre: “Awweee! Will Smith is sooooooo hot! I normally don’t date black guys but I would certainly do “him” if given the opportunity. Tee hee hee!”
Will Smith & Co are well aware of that and it is in their best interest to keep the average African American oblivious of this new form of brainwashing.
That can explain why we never hear from the so called black superstars about the African American condition in the USA. Will Smith & Co never take a serious stand nor do they raise strong concerns when something like the Treyvon Martin case happens. Where are the outspoken 50 cent, Lil Wayne and etc when we need them?
Nowhere to be found because they don’t want to upset “tha Boss”.
It would be detrimental to their careers that were built upon the satisfaction of “tha boss”.
Think twice before you buy a movie ticket or decide to get the latest album of those so called black successful people who are supposedly there to boost your self-worth.
Truly despicable.
Alright, enough said….I better stop or else I’ll get sick again.
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@wilson
I am still working on what you asked earlier…sorry, please don’t think I am ignoring you.
But there is something that I wanted to express… I respectfully disagree with your definition of Black Racism…only because I have experienced first hand not being welcome in someone’s home because I was white and they made it clear they did not like white people…in my opinion…that is racism. I also have had a few black people call me “cracker”, which in no way is as harmful as the “N” word…but the way it was said was to demean me and they made it clear they did not like white people…in my opinion…that as a racist term. I have also had black girls, when I was in high school, threaten to jump me if I didn’t break up with my black boyfriend and they made it clear to me that they hated white girls and especially white girls that dated black boys…in my opinion…that is racist as well. But those are just my views from my life experience.
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@duckduckgoofs
Why, looky here, he’s given up on trying to justify himself and has simply fallen back on “I don’t care”. And therein lies the problem that everyone here has with you, duck: you don’t care about how others feel, it’s all about you, you, YOU. You often mention your experiences with blacks being racist towards you (including this shooting that you refuse to explain) and then simultaneously refuting the experiences of those who have suffered from white racism, as if only your experiences are deserving of attention and sympathy. And then you act all defensive when people take issue with you denying things that actually happened while repeatedly yanking out half-explained tales of how racist blacks have been towards you. Well, honestly, after the third or fourth loop of this, you’re not the only one who is tired of it. Because trying to make you see past your own nose is like trying to stop the wind.
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@duckduckgoofs
No one is going to coddle you. If you want people to try and understand your views, the fact that you are on here commenting tells me you do, then you should share your experiences in a respectful way and you will be met with respect. But if you come on here disrespectful then you will be met with disrespect.
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@ DuckDuck
“It’s personal and no one would respect it, anyway.”—Do you feel others will not respect it because you have not shown respect for their experiences?
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I don’t believe for one minute that blacks are just as racist as whites. My experience with blacks and whites show me otherwise. I have NOT had one incident of racism from any black people where I’m from. I really can’t say the same about the racist whites I’ve encountered.
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@ DuckDuck
Ok now I can clarify. Had to get my soap fix.
I am not going to ask you about your personal experience as it is your own, but I am going to be so bold as you say that your level of bias is far beyond anything I have seen. I can agree with you on bias as I have it and have lived in an area where there is fair behavior and attitudes, but I am not so consumed with this bias that I am unaware of racism in this world. Based on my experience I could safely say that there is not racism, but that would not be true.
Don’t think just because a person does not say racist things to your face that they are not racist. I could easily take from your statement that blacks are more bold at saying and treating you cruel and whites will wait until you leave and say it. That could or could not be true, but you would not know it. You will take from it what you want to and if you want to see blacks as bad then that will be the base of all your arguments. Even if presented with a good and caring black person you are only going to look at them as bad because that is what you want to do.
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I have heard it said that blacks and minorities cannot be racist, because they lack the power to be. ie, a subordinate cannot sexually harrass his/her boss. Personally I believe this. Blacks are the oppressor, not the harrasser.
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1&2
Your right; it wasn’t million(s) just a million and some…..
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So wait…..no African based empire has ever extended itself outwards from Africa?
6
Most whites are part black; was that due to black rape back in the day?
7
White men finding white women attractive isn’t a racist beauty standard no more so than black men finding black women attractive is racist.
Well….in retrospect it probably is, biologically speaking were prone to dating out so as to make our gene pool stronger and less likely to defect in some way.
So I guess, the reason any group finds their own group better looking than outside groups is due to racism/bigotry.
8&9
Black people have wanted to call white people, asian people etc….racist names before.
The only reason it doesn’t have as much affect on white people versus the n-word is simply power.
Cracker, honkey etc….all probably have a lot more affect on an individual in a primarily black neighborhood than in a primarily white one.
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Going back to the slave era yes; in the USA no not that I know of.
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You sure about that?:)
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There are black people out there who are all about black “purity” as pointless a term inregards to black people as it is white.
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Who doesn’t? Most white people don’t respect hill people talk or red necks or the general southern accent either. If you don’t speak english properly your going to come off as less intelligent regardless of your race.
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Of course there are; black guys who like to think of white/asian men with small penises as mentioned earlier…..as athletically inferior etc…..
21
True; didn’t make fun of the murder but many were happy he got away with it weren’t they?
To many of them; it felt good to see white people get murdered
Are there white people like that? Of course
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Sharina,
You asked Duck,“It’s personal and no one would respect it, anyway.”—Do you feel others will not respect it because you have not shown respect for their experiences?”
A great question.
Sharon,
Don’t you mean that blacks are the oppressed, not the oppressor?
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Everyone,
I’m very suspicious of Duck trying to justify himself with the supposed actions against him by blacks which include the shooting he brought up out of nowhere.
This could be listed as another broken argument. Those who justify their views on the “naturally” violent, evil, murderous, racist-against-white-people black people will always pull up a testimony, real or imagined, about their being victims of violent blacks. And that incident alone is what turned them into the people they are today.
I say real or imagined because we can’t be sure. Only the person who brings it up knows for sure. Nevertheless, that’s always seems to be the core behind their disdain that is mentioned sooner or later in their comments.
Now, if we were to bring up our experiences dealing with racism by whites, those same people will argue about how that’s not as important as their experience. Why? Because in their minds:
1. We somehow brought it on ourselves and deserved what we got.
2. We whine and complain too much while doing nothing about it.
3. They don’t consider us “human” enough to suffer.
4. We have no reason to complain seeing as how society somehow and in some form treats black people better than whites. (Ha!)
5. Their pain matters more than anyone else’s, especially those of black people.
In other words it’s all about them (people like Duck), and not us.
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@duckjduckgoof:
You are an embodiment of the ‘tragic’ mulatto’ stereotype, or whatever admixture you are. No need to doggedly stand up for whites, they have their own defenders, they don’t need a ‘mixed’ person to do so. Stormfront would welcome you if for nothing else, to serve as a source of derision and hilarity.
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As to the original post; are black people more or equally racist as white people?
Eh….hard to know honestly, they certainly don’t have the power to enforce most of their prejudicims whatever they may be.
I haven’t seen any where near the same amount of racism towards white people as vice a versa.
Doesn’t mean it isn’t there just saying I haven’t seen it.
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Herneith,
Assuming he truly is mixed. He may be, but is seriously lost.
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Duckgoofs…I know, its OK, lie down and take a little nap…after all, I know it must be complex for you . I certainly would agree , if you put something out on a public forum, you are fair game for scrutiny…
I guarentee you, I dont want to pry in any way into your private cyber life , being as that even if you told your story , we dont know who you are , since you are a cyber identity.
Its just that you are tantalising us with these mysterious referances to some shooting incident in your life , like a wisp of a glimpse at some foggy image of an incident , of some life shaping moment, yet, nothing for us of any real substance to get what you really want to convey.
Because, it seems this incident has shaped your point of veiw, or , had something to do with it…that is all
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@sharina:
Well, actually some europeans still do sell their kids, as in eastern Europe into the modern day slavery that is cross continental prostitution etc.
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@Sharina
Okay, so with humans being crazy, and particularly with any patriarchal culture, human beings become objects; this will include children and female descendants in particular. So people sold or traded or made alliances with their daughters’ bodies all the time. And even today, people will sell their children for money, prostitute them, etc…
But what was telling was how there was this great mystique about honor and civility in the south and the US in general. Good families, dynasties, love, ladies, belles, blah blah blah. And the whole thing of course stank to high heaven. These men were going on about their beautiful daughters and great sons and honor and bloodlines and blah blah blah, and then they sold their mixed children. Not all of them, but some did. Some had a tradition of trading their kids around to other plantation holders so as to maintain order at home.Some probably just saw a nice profit.
That really strikes at me, as a mixed woman. My white parent, while incredibly human and flawed, loves me almost more than life itself. She would never, ever do that. But it does hurt to know that to some white people who I might share blood with, I’m not really seen as family.
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@ Mamzer HaKodesh
I understand where you are coming from. It was my mistake in reading the comment. I was thinking in terms of vise versa.
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@ sam and Mamzer HaKodesh
“even today, people will sell their children for money, prostitute them, etc…”
“Well, actually some europeans still do sell their kids, as in eastern Europe into the modern day slavery that is cross continental prostitution etc.”
I really was not thinking that people actually still practiced such disgusting acts this day and age. The part about people willingly selling there children into it anyway. I always thought they had to be kidnapped or something along those lines but parents actually saying…Here take them (no words for that).
Thank both of you for sharing that.
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@ Mamzer HaKodesh
Please excuse my several posts. I am reading through and watching a marathon of supernatural.
“But what was telling was how there was this great mystique about honor and civility in the south and the US in general. Good families, dynasties, love, ladies, belles, blah blah blah. And the whole thing of course stank to high heaven. These men were going on about their beautiful daughters and great sons and honor and bloodlines and blah blah blah, and then they sold their mixed children. “—I agree with you on this 100%. The whole idea of southern hospitality is flawed even today. Correct me if I am wrong but I believe back then there was a law that stated if the mother of a child is a slave then the child will be a slave. This was to protect slaveholders who slept with and produced a child with a slave or gave them the excuse to do it without public scrutiny. It always bothered me how they could produce these kids that were a part of them and just throw them away like nothing, but then you think how they can push there daughters off to the highest bidder as well. The exemplify the true meaning of heartless. They don’t care and it makes me wonder how heartless they really are.
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@Michelle
“Racism=Consequences of Racism=Racism”
Yeah, and Apples=Oranges.
@wilson
“By the definition you have given, speaking in terms of a collective and not individual cases, (for example, illustration, I can say, cars on the roads in the USA are roadworthy. This is generally true but not absolutely so, there are some cars on the roads that are not) I would say black racism doesn’t exist.”
So, generally there are no black people who think Asians are good at math? Or that black people are great athletes?
I mean, I do understand why you want to stick to the idea that black racism is only a reaction to white racism. It’s so beautifully self-serving. It implies that black people are not personally responsible for their racist actions. Unfortunately, it also implies that they generally can’t think for themselves and are intellectually incapable of noticing that their racist actions are immoral, wrong,
“It remains that the originating factor is White Racism which spins off and creates internalized racism on its target.”
I disagree. The original factor is racism and white racism is its strongest, most powerful form.
“You can now talk about individual cases if you wish to derail.”
I wasn’t going to. I was pointing out the fact that when a set of elements has a property that doesn’t necessarily mean its subsets and individual elements have that property too. It’s important to be able to notice when generalizations become inaccurate and misleading.
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@wilson
I have always “thought” that I wasn’t racist…but…I will touch on that in a moment. You may have already read about my first encounter with POC when I was 6yrs old…from that point on I began my journey of awareness. I always asked my parents questions but they did not like discussing it…even though they claimed not to be racist. From time to time I would get short answers about their personal experience with race riots and losing black friends during them…In their opinion “they stick with their own kind when riots start.”and why they moved from Muncie, IN to a small all white town…”We wanted you to be safe and not experience the danger and fear we went through.” But for the most part they didn’t want to talk about it. Later in life, I did manage to get my mother to tell me about her friend and the race riots…she said that she had a black friend that she was really close to and cared about, but when one of the race riots started, her friend left her to be with “her own kind.” My mother said she was deeply hurt…she said she was trying to convince her to leave with her so they could get to safety and she never expected her to do that. So early in my childhood…fear was imprinted in my mind…but I was still naive to so much racism. My first major white racist experience was while visiting my overbearingly racist grandparents…I was, roughly, 8yrs old and I was sitting at their kitchen table when a garbage truck went by and my grandfather yelled “Them coloreds drive too damn fast!” and I said “Yep, they were red, white, and blue!” (the colors of the garbage truck)…*chirping crickets* and then they all burst out laughing. My mother took me into the hallway and told me that they were talking about the drivers…I was confused…so she reminded me of what she told me when I was 6yrs old…”some people don’t like black people”…but I was never capable of just accepting that as an answer…I don’t know why…I can’t really explain it…I just always questioned motives even before I knew what motives were. She didn’t want to talk about it and left it at that…and got agitated with me for asking so many “why” questions. By the time I reached junior high school…I became more aware of the racism in my town and with my own parents. I had a friend that was Vietnamese, adopted by white people, and his mother was my moms best friend. I always asked my mom if he could come over and study or hang out…but she always said “no”. She never said “no” to my white friends unless she already had something planned…but at that time…I did not make the connection. When I finally asked her “Why?” all she said was “Talk to your father”. Well…that did not go over so well…I think I caused him to have flashbacks of his time served in the Vietnam War. He proceeded to tell me in a very harsh, angry, and quite loud tone…”YOU WILL NEVER BRING A G__K IN MY HOUSE!”…for fear of my safety, I ran out of the house crying. When my father left for work I immediately started grilling my mother as to why she would let him speak like that and why her best friend and my friend’s mother, who was white, would not come to our house…and of course she started crying and telling me “Not to do this to her.” I don’t know why but my mothers tears only angered me and I said “Whatever!” and stormed to my room…which ended up being where I spent most of my time at home from that point on when my parents were home…other factors were also involved as well. When i was young the cruelness in kids, where I was from, did not start surfacing until Junior High. I learned what the “N” word was in 6th grade…I was hanging at the circle in our neighborhood with my white friends and one of the boys looked at me as if he was disgusted with me…when I asked what was wrong…he said “You have N____R lips!” at that time I was confused but I knew it was not a compliment. I went home embarrassed and crying and asked my mother what that meant and she looked at me as though she had seen a ghost. After the shock wore off she finally told me “It is what some people call black people.” Then…I was really confused! So I told her “but I am white”…she then proceeded to explain how “Most white people have thin lips and mine were bigger than most white peoples lips and black people have big lips.” That was all I could get out of her. At that point my self esteem started to plummet…I couldn’t shake the feeling that word was very bad. I then learned through history class where the “N” word originated…I can’t remember exact words but it was something like this “slave owners would use the term for African American slaves to show them their place in society and keep them under control.” I then became even more confused as to why I was called that. I don’t know why it stuck with me…I can’t explain it…other than it hurt and I felt like an outcast…even when nothing was mentioned by my friends…I would always wonder if they were thinking about it. I believe that is why I was never sucked into the racial slurs that others were. I would always annoy the heck out of them with “why” questions every time I heard them say racial slurs about black people…but at that point I still did not have the courage to condemn them for it. After that a series of bad things happened to me by 3 different white boys…you may have already read about them in another blog that I commented on here. So by the time I was in high school I was pretty much a loner…I had a few friends…but they were actually more like acquaintances that I rarely hung around with anymore. When I was 16 I met a black boy that changed my views about all boys being bad…you may have read about it in another post. Well that experience opened me up to a whole new world that I had only heard negative things about, from white people, throughout most of my life. I realized then that all of the fears, stereotypes, and slanderous remarks were wrong. I witnessed black married couples that were loving and nurturing to each other and their children, education was very important to them, I felt more warmth and kindness from my boyfriend’s family than my own, I saw how hard his father worked to provide for the family and still came home happy and involved with the family…something that was not common in my own house, I saw how much respect his father had for his mother and how appreciative he was of her and everything she did for the family…again, something not common in my house, I experienced how open and honest they were, all while being respectful, about racism and the effects of it…once again, something not common in my house. After listening to them, I was able to gain the courage to start condemning people for their racism. Then after that relationship ended (reasons were in another post) I still had a few black friends that I hung around with…but that is when my fears started to resurface…I wrote about that in a previous comment to you today. After graduation I joined the Army experienced my first blatant white racist encounter…which you may have already read about in another post…with many more to follow. I traveled all over the united states and other countries. In all of my travels and places I have lived…the majority of racist moments that I experienced were from white people. As I said in the beginning…I always “thought” that I wasn’t racist…well…imagine my surprise when I realized that I actually was. When President Obama was elected, I started to see so much more white racism in such a short period of time…I was getting frustrated and starting to feel so much anger and I began praying about it…then one day in march I saw a petition on Change.org for Trayvon Martin…I am not one to agree to anything that I am not familiar with so I started researching the case. I was shocked at what I found and I immediately signed and started posting on FB about it. I put link after link and photo upon photo and comments but no one cared except for 1 person liked almost everything I posted and then *chirping crickets*….some time in April low and behold a woman, who happens to be the current wife (who I have never met in person) of a friend of my husbands that we met many years ago in the army, decided to show her true colors on the photo I posted of Trayvon’s dad giving him a kiss. I was so enraged but I tried to keep my cool and not cuss her out and look ignorant…so i prayed about it and then I challenged everything she said until she couldn’t come up with anything else to say. I then told my husband to cancel plans of us going down to Enterprise to meet up with them this summer! This incident consumed me and I was having a hard time letting go I prayed over and over asking for guidance…then sometime in may…all of a sudden my FB page was bombarded with photos of President Obama with racial jokes or Anti-Obama slogans! I wanted to bash my head against my keyboard! So prayed about it and I decided to fight back with post after post informing them and educating them on what President Obama has done from day one and is currently working on. Again…* chirping crickets*…then one of my husbands cousins decided to vent his anger to me on FB…so I prayed about it and I decided to share links and reply with things that proved him wrong…then *chirping crickets*. I was finally at my whits end and I had been praying about it so much because I could not understand how people can be so cruel. I wanted so badly to be able to have the power to change the way people are and I felt helpless and alone. Then one day after praying I decided to do a Google search for “Why are people racist?”. That is when I saw abagond’s blog and decided to check it out…I was humbled. I realized that all along while I “thought” I wasn’t racist I actually was…I have asked people where they were from, I have asked black girls about their hair, I have actually said “I don’t see color”…basically I have done or said many of the things that abagond and others on here have said were racist. So my first few days on here I spent crying a lot and asking for God’s forgiveness and feeling like a complete ish bag! So to make a short story long…I am reading and listening to as much information that I can pack into my days so that I can stop being so blind to these things. I want to raise my children to be loving and compassionate and I feel this blog is going to help me achieve that. I am sorry it is so long…I have a hard time summing things up…my husband usually loses interest midway through me talking…so please forgive me lol. 🙂
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@wilson
My post is awaiting moderation…I am not sure if abagond will post it…It is really long. I knew it was long but didn’t realize how long it really was until I submitted it. 😦 sorry
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From what I’ve seen with some white commenters and a few ones of color, calling white people racist seems to be the ultimate sin. It’s as if to say that only non-whites can be racist and never white people because, as they always say, happened a long time ago.
The fact is we live in a racist society created from racism and is kept alive by racism.
It’s not insulting to say that there are a lot of white racist out there. It’s a fact. They have that mindset, even the “good” ones. This is not to say they are evil, but this is to say that they’ve been took for a lie that makes them feel good at the cost of their humanity and souls.
What good is living a life so sheltered from the world as to keep one from learning and evolving? Is avoiding other forms of truth really necessary to them in order to maintain that high or normalcy and superiority?
The bottom line is that they can sit here and scream until they’re blue about how black people are racist against whites and that their racism is somehow more important than white racism. Thinking about themselves as a response to other people’s frustration is a clear sign of their racial narcissism. And in the end they are only hurting themselves.
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[…] Blacks are just as racist! […]
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@brothawolf
Well Said!
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Thanks Michelle,
I just want to ask directly to some of these people how are blacks racist, especially towards them in particular? What are black people doing that is, in one way or another, destroying or oppressing the white race? How is it more destructive than white racism? And how is society more favorable towards black people than white people?
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@brothawolf
Unfortunately I have had a few encounters with what I consider to be black racism (I posted them somewhere in this mass of posts in a response to wilson about his definition of black racism)…but those few encounters in no way compare to the amount of white racism that I have experienced or witnessed in my life. I don’t feel that any white person can say, with honesty and integrity, that black people are destroying or oppressing the white race, it is more destructive than white racism, or that society is more favorable towards black people than white people. It is quite the opposite.
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Brotha Wolf, there are a couple of issues here, to what degree are “black people” racist, and in what direction.
The degree is hard to compare, but with issues like (not so) natural hair, colorism, and so on, the degree of internalized racism may well at least equal the AVERAGE white racism, and as internalized racism has already breached the walls it damages things like self respect at the core, and can thus be more damaging than racism of outsiders.
I mean, do you know a word for a natural African hair type one could not construct as an insult, an attack, in black-on-black communication?
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@Sharina
I don’t think the heartlessness is specific to race, nor is selling your children or pimping them or abusing them. But it does chill me to think of it in that antebellum context, side by side with the illusion of love and family and kinship.
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@brothawolf: Well said. And also, if and when black american might be a racist, these white racists forget one very important thing, despite it being said over here time and time again by many commentators: racism influences blacks too in more than million ways.
They do not live in some primevial existence outside the white racism, they are the target of it every day from the birth to the grave. How the hell one can even imagine that not a single black american would not adapt some racist ideas in that situation?? Self hate is one example of this. Adopting negative views of ones own kind is another. Adopting the white view is one too. And buying the very core idea of racism (biological human races) is another.
I think it is almost comical that a white racist who does not even realise what is going on, points his finger towards blacks and call them racists for what ever reason. This just like when a tormented and abused and bullied kid reacts violently and is accused of being violent on his own. It is the same when abused wife gets beaten by her husband for 25 years almost daily and finally snaps and does something, she will be the monster mom or something.
It seems that some white commenters here do not realise that they are also in the racist system from the day one when they are born. In USA it is everywhere from children cartoons and books to tv and movies, magazines, ads, language, books, everywhere. It is in the spoken language. How the hell you think this does not influence people who are born into it one way or the other??
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@ Michelle,
Thanks for sharing your experience. Your kids are lucky to have you as there mother. You are the only white person I have ever come across either in real life or online who has taken such an active role in figuring out their inherent racist tendencies and not just fallen blindly on “I am not racist because I think so”.
Nowadays you get a lot of the well-meaning white person e.g. look at Occupy, look at all these people taking a stand against the “man”, taking it on themselves to stand up for “humanity” etc but it gets me down when I see they are so blind to acknowledge “their own inherent racism”. I know they don’t acknowledge it because no one ever talks about it, they just assume it doesn’t exist, like it magically vanished just because
a)They think they aren’t racist naturally i.e. colorblind.
b) They think racism is a non-issue, a distraction from the really important issues — I have heard some say this.
c) They think they are Progressive thus can’t be Racist since Racism is outmoded and they voted for “Obama”.
I guess that is why these movements are actually not represented by the people who you think would be the first in line to march against the “man” or wall street.
I’d like abagond to do a post on that because I have always thought about “why do we never see as many people of color as white people in these movements?” There must be something else going on.
Slightly veered off-topic there.
@ brothawolf,
“From what I’ve seen with some white commenters and a few ones of color, calling white people racist seems to be the ultimate sin. ”
Yeah, it goes against the White is good mythology.
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Hmmmmm…glad I left when I did. Abagond, Duck, if he is indeed a hybrid, is from the doctrine of self-hate. Many mixed breeds have this terrible disease. I’ve seen it with a girl I knew in school. She was the Jennifer Beals type…perhaps a bit darker..
Anyway, she hated blacks. Sided with all whites to torment black kids, laughed when they were called horrific names and threw packets of ketchup at them. She hated herself, really…and thought if you can’t beat ’em, join ’em.
Duck has the same mentality. Her awakening came when a white boy she liked told her he could never date a Nigg*r.
She was devastated. Duck had a bad experience. So now, we’re his scapegoat.
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Teddy
You said the following:
Brotha Wolf, there are a couple of issues here, to what degree are “black people” racist, and in what direction.
The degree is hard to compare, but with issues like (not so) natural hair, colorism, and so on, the degree of internalized racism may well at least equal the AVERAGE white racism, and as internalized racism has already breached the walls it damages things like self respect at the core, and can thus be more damaging than racism of outsiders.
I mean, do you know a word for a natural African hair type one could not construct as an insult, an attack, in black-on-black communication?
My issue at hand is towards certain people to whom believe that black racism is more harmful to non-blacks, especially whites for the moment.
Black racism turned inward can be just as or more destructive as external white racism, but like you said, it all determines to the kind of degree present and the individuals suffering from it.
It’s not cut and dry like you said, but it is harmful nonetheless.
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@Abagond
This post is probably one you’ve needed to do for a while now because its allowed everyone commenting here (as well as yourself) to reflect on the illogic of your opening statement:
Some comments have begun to question this – Blacks are racist – illogic notably: Wilson, Sam and Brothawolf…etc.However, you have consistently attributed this behavior to yourself. So I have to ask which of those 21 points (on an albeit smaller scale) are you also guilty of?
Lets examine the illogic of your reasoning for a moment and see if you would also agree:
“…Black women are just as beautiful as white woman if not more so! It is a common thing Blacks or whites in America say. I do agree that Black women are beautiful, but just as beautiful? No way! Not even close…”
Do you see how illogical this sounds when expressed in this way? You’re allowing the definition of racism to become a subjective assessment when clearly its not applied in this manner!
I think this is definitely a position you need to reflect on.
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@ Mamzer HaKodesh
“I don’t think the heartlessness is specific to race, nor is selling your children or pimping them or abusing them. But it does chill me to think of it in that antebellum context, side by side with the illusion of love and family and kinship.”—Thank you for sharing that. That is an interesting take on things though none the less.
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What I find amusing when having these discussions about who is, and who can be, racist. Is that must people, regardless of what particular group they classify themselves to be in ASSUME they understand what RACISM IS? The truth is, unless you have researched and studied it, most people (again regardless of which group they classify themselves to be in) DO NOT KNOW WHAT RACISM IS!
So what makes us believe we all know and understand what racism is to determine who is and who isn’t racist?
The dominant UN-natural “racial” ideology already imposed on this planet is:
Black & POC = Inferiority; White = Superiority
I say UN-natural because its not reflected in the natural world. No one species of anything is naturally (and behaves as if it is) superior or inferior to another. Also, the concept of “race” or “races/racial” are discredited non-biological terms. So for these two reasons alone it must be an ideological imposition. Which means to try to turn this around by implying:
Black & POC = Superiority; White = Inferiority
Goes counter to what has already been established and exists. Which is not to say it could not be set up and equally “imposed” this way around. It could…BUT ITS NOT! There is already a ton of evidence to support the established false world view of white superiority but little to support its counter opposite.
And that is the point…You would have to breakdown the already established system of white superiority before you could replace it with the equal and opposite system of Black & POC = superiority. Who knows? Maybe this is a reality on another planet Earth in another solar system?
Its just not the “accepted” reality in this world, on this Earth, on this planet.
Some of the comments here detailing so called examples of “Black racism” are just that so called. It should become obvious another term is needed here because racism it is not! How could it be?
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@duckduckgoofs
I don’t care. Is that honest enough for you? Giggity Giggity
Yep. And it is exactly what I suspected. What is the purpose of you coming on here then? Is it merely to affirm that black people are the most racist OR to inject your own brand of discord which then antagonises people and enables you to vent without guilt?
If you dont care, why do you rail against those who you suspect of not caring? Where is the balance, the meeting halfway?
BTW, dare I ask, what is Giggity Giggity?
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@Michelle
Thanks for being so candid about your experiences and how they have shaped and moulded who you are as a person today. I salute you truly I do. Its amazing how much of an impact blogs such as this can have on a person if they are open and honest about things. Good on you.
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Real question.
Do non-Europeans have anything similar to Europeans usage of drugs to control a nation or community of another? On the scale of Opium Wars (China), the usage of alcohol to take advantage of Africans and Indigenous of the “turtle continent” [U.S] (Africans and indigenous of U.S. do not have allele [or something like it] to properly metabolize alcohol), or even the “crack” epidemic.
@Demerera
“Giggity Giggity” I guess is a catch phrase from the adult cartoon Family Guy. I think it is just a sound with no meaning but then again I do not watch that show.
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@Deedee
“Giggity Giggity” I guess is a catch phrase from the adult cartoon Family Guy. I think it is just a sound with no meaning but then again I do not watch that show.
Thanks for clarifying – I dip in and out of the show because others in my household watch it but, it is not overall to my taste
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Kwamla,
Yet we are the “evolved” ones….
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Kwamla Hesse said:
The problem with the “power argument” (i.e. “black people cannot be racist because they lack political power”) ought to be obvious:
Everyone has power. All of you reading this have the capacity to exercise significant personal power, up to and including the power of life and death, over others in your sphere of association.
If anyone has a counterclaim to this assertion, please be so kind as to share it.
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Randy,
Political power is only part of the equation. Economic power also comes into play. And how do you suppose we lack such power? Did we just wake up one day and decide not to do anything about our situation in the last few centuries?
We may have the power, but surviving in this nation has oppressed many of us enough (mentally) to believe that we don’t have any self-reliant collective power, and to obtain some we must go through the white male power structure.
We’ve been brainwashed and oppressed into this mindset for so long generation after generation.
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“Randy,
The problem with the “power argument” (i.e. “black people cannot be racist because they lack political power”) ought to be obvious:
Everyone has power. All of you reading this have the capacity to exercise significant personal power, up to and including the power of life and death, over others in your sphere of association.
If anyone has a counterclaim to this assertion, please be so kind as to share it.”
Linda says,
Randy, haven’t seen you in awhile.
There is nothing to counterclaim, your observations of personal power is on target, your absolutely right about individual autonomy
but you didn’t address the issue of blacks in America not having the political or economic power to socially or institutionally include or exclude large groups of people based on their Prejudiced beliefs about white Americans or other races or ethnicities.
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Linda,
Exactly, and again, it is because of years and years of oppression (aside from slavery and the pre-civil rights years) that we are still behind. It may seem like an excuse to Randy, but it is what it is, and one can not simply get up if he is constantly told to sit down and gets knocked down over and over again.
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I’m not really sure its fair to say black people are “behind”.
Around 80% of black people are middle class….the vast majority of black people are non-criminal, economically stable and contribute to society on a level beyond just culturally.
Do they have a larger percentage of people in poverty? Yes, but its not the majority of them and not enough that it should legitimately be their defining feature.
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@ Randy
The problem with the “money argument” (i.e. “poor people cannot be rich because they lack money”) ought to be obvious:
Everyone has money. All of you reading this have the capacity to exercise significant purchasing power, up to and including the power of buying food to keep yourself and your children alive.
If anyone has a counterclaim to this assertion, please be so kind as to share it.
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@ Phoebe
I think almost everyone in America is racist. The racism of America’s slave past comes down on everyone through their parents and teachers and through the culture as a whole. It affects blacks mainly in the form of internalized racism against themselves, not so much as externalized racism against whites. If anything, blacks generally have a way better opinion of whites than they should.
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@ Blanc2
I like some of Tyler Perry’s films, but his use of stereotypes is bad news, especially since there are so few other successful black directors in Hollywood.
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@abagond
I agree with your claims on the “money argument”….Personally, I feel that one of the greatest gifts of money power is our ability to choose where we spend our money on the economy….(small family owned businesses over big box stores, reasonable prices over “convenience” prices, white owned businesses or black owned businesses…)
I also agree, based off of personal experience, with your statement “If anything, blacks generally have a way better opinion of whites than they should.” In my opinion, it is those “better opinions” that have opened up so many POC to being hurt by white people. I, as a white woman, stand strong in my beliefs against racism. And the result is very lonely. I find that most white people that I have met are either blatant racists, quiet racists, or say they aren’t only to find that…given certain circumstances…it will arise. I guess what I am saying is…every POC should be cautious when among white people…it is quite easy to determine if they really are racist or not if you don’t assume them to be telling the truth because many are racist and they don’t know it. If they truly do not want to be racist and they are just ignorant to what is racist in the eyes of the beholders…then they will listen and learn.
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@Kwamla Hesse
Stating the obvious is not racist. Yes, blackwomen are beautiful. Why do so many blackmen on this planet feel the need to undercut blackwomen? Are blackmen so sexually unrefined, that, many of us deny the truth just to hop in bed with random whitewomen for the hell of it? How can you and other blackmen say that blackwomen and whitewomen are on equal footing? Our sistas were violated by whitemen, whitewomen benefitted greatly from that wickedness. Whitewomen need to kiss the behinds of sistas, instead of the other way around, just saying!
Tyrone
Black Eros
PS…If it’s true, how can it be racist?
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@duckduckgoofs
Very funny my man, you got jokes, Ha! Duck, you’re a prime example of why i’m sideways with the biracial class. Lying thru your teeth just to get a rise out of black people, Interesting! You think ish is a game. We need to know the truth, however ugly it may come to us. I don’t care if you hate Tyrone, i want you to think. Don’t agree with what i say, question what you see and hear. Don’t be a lame, think for yourself. Don’t be a hater of black people. Duck, get your mind right?
Tyrone
BS Slayer
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Michelle said:
“what I am saying is…every POC should be cautious when among white people…it is quite easy to determine if they really are racist or not if you don’t assume them to be telling the truth because many are racist and they don’t know it. If they truly do not want to be racist and they are just ignorant to what is racist in the eyes of the beholders…then they will listen and learn.”
@ EVERYONE
BELIEVE THIS –
Here’s a white person telling us that white people (at large) can’t be trusted in terms of racism. The only whites that are fighting racism – as well as their own – are those who will listen and learn.
If they ain’t listening, they ain’t learning… and they’re happy to be stuck in their racism. Just leave these racists alone and move on. No amount of logic, reason, wisdom, etc can help those who WON’T LISTEN .. and learn.
Why waste your time?
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@ Abagond
You really do need to respond to this question:
Otherwise it destroys the whole premise of argument in this post. What makes you the judge (final arbiter) of who is more racist or a little bit racist?
Why shouldn’t we just accept the equally valid subjective view of Randy on what is or what is not racist?
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@ Randy…
You would do well to re-read what I’ve written here because your response of injecting power into my definition is a complete mis-understanding, mis-representation and mis-leading deflection of my true argument and position.
You could start by pointing out where I actually even used the word – Power?
As has been pointed out already we ALL have personal power and agency to transform our individual lives and circumstances. However, the circumstances of the world we are born into today are inherently unequal and unjust for ALL respective peoples on this planet. This has manifested itself in the creation of unequal societies. Whether you accept or recognize this will be dependent the position you adopt for yourself in relation to this artificial imbalance
As I have also stated previously before this is an ideological imposition. An artificially constructed imbalance and is no different from a similar imposition that makes us believe that males are superior to inferior females. Just as we all know women have personal power and agency to overcome this unequal treatment that in itself does not cancel or deny the unequal circumstances of the reality they find themselves in to begin with.
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@Matari
“If they ain’t listening, they ain’t learning… and they’re happy to be stuck in their racism. Just leave these racists alone and move on. No amount of logic, reason, wisdom, etc can help those who WON’T LISTEN .. and learn. ”
What’s the precise, logical and reasonable definition of racism, oh great wise one? I’m listening and I’m ready to learn.
The flaw in your reasoning is the assumption that the supposed teachers actually possess valuable knowledge. You should be able to notice such things, if you actually understand basic logic.
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@ Kwamla
I will be out most of the day (it is 8:00am here) but I will not forget to answer your comment.
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@eco
In my opinion there is no precise definition of racism…I firmly believe that it is in the eyes of the beholder…if it hurts them or they feel it is racist…listen to them, learn what is hurtful…and don’t do it again…I see it as having compassion for a human being regardless of race. I am still learning and listening to what hurts people. I would never want someone to tell me that I am not justified for feeling hurt over something someone said to me. It is an irrational response and is hurtful as well. It is like the bible scriptures…
Matthew 7:7-12 Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you: For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened. Or what man is there of you, whom if his son ask bread, will he give him a stone? Or if he ask a fish, will he give him a serpent? If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children, how much more shall your Father which is in heaven give good things to them that ask him? Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets.
Luke 6:27-38 But I say unto you which hear, Love your enemies, do good to them which hate you, Bless them that curse you, and pray for them which despitefully use you. And unto him that smiteth thee on the one cheek offer also the other; and him that taketh away thy cloak forbid not to take thy coat also. Give to every man that asketh of thee; and of him that taketh away thy goods ask them not again. And as ye would that men should do to you, do ye also to them likewise. For if ye love them which love you, what thank have ye? for sinners also love those that love them. And if ye do good to them which do good to you, what thank have ye? for sinners also do even the same. And if ye lend to them of whom ye hope to receive, what thank have ye? for sinners also lend to sinners, to receive as much again. But love ye your enemies, and do good, and lend, hoping for nothing again; and your reward shall be great, and ye shall be the children of the Highest: for he is kind unto the unthankful and to the evil. Be ye therefore merciful, as your Father also is merciful. Judge not, and ye shall not be judged: condemn not, and ye shall not be condemned: forgive, and ye shall be forgiven: Give, and it shall be given unto you; good measure, pressed down, and shaken together, and running over, shall men give into your bosom. For with the same measure that ye mete withal it shall be measured to you again.
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@Michelle
That question about the definition of racism was an inside joke. Or rather an inside jab.
I asked Matari about that definition multiple times and he keeps making excuses why he doesn’t want to say what it is even though he claims to have one.
I felt like making fun of Matari because his comment, that people who disagree with him are basically close minded, illogical, unreasonable racists, who don’t want to open themselves up to his “wisdom”, is really something d!ckish. Even for my low standards.
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@eco
Sorry…It is hard to understand sometimes if people are joking or not. I have commented on other posts of yours thinking they were supporting white racism…I am so confused 🙂
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I Felt Like Making Fun Of Matari Because His Comment, That People Who Disagree With Him Are Basically Close Minded, Illogical, Unreasonable Racists, Who Dont Want To Open Themselves Up To His Wisdom, Is Really Something D!ckish.
Yes sah! Us Negroes is greatful for you imput. LAWDY!
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You’re welcome.
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@Herneith
I am so confused…I apologized to eco thinking that when he said it was an inside joke…I thought he was referring to the fact that he may be friends with abagond.. “inside joke” usually that is between to people in the know…and that him and abagond might be on some mutual wave length that I am not Based off of your comment I am assuming that he offended you and I hope that I did not offend you by appologizing to him. If it did can you please let me know…and your thoughts as well. 🙂
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@eco
Okay…now my confusion is starting to dissipate…you are attacking not joking and continue to do as I initially suspected…when you said “Thank You” instead of noticing the err of your statement…as I did until Herneith pointed out…you continue with the arrogance that I initially suspected of you. This is exactly why I found you to be racist and defending racism. So my apology is revoked. I am not wasting any more time on you.
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Michelle, well, you have the right idea to keep your eye on what Herneith sais…she has a bs antenna extremly atuned and knows how to inform those bs’ers what is the real deal…
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Linda said:
Linda,
For a large number of folks, the concept of “racism”, as it presents as a social pathology, is an immediate experience. The political dimension seems rather distant from most people’s day-to-day lives.
The accountability of an individual’s behavior to society ought not to depend on any assessment of their self-identified demographic group’s claims to political power (or lack thereof). Dangerous consequences arise when this principle is ignored.
The consequences of
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Kwamla said:
I am guilty of conflating your comments here with my opinion of your earlier comments regarding Grada Kilomba’s politics-and-power definition of racism. You are correct to object and I regret the mistake.
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Eco
…whatever..
as I told you many times before, read the blog site – or improve your reading comprehension skills!
the answer(s) you seek have already been stated enough times on numerous threads. i’m not obligated to answer YOUR question(s) simply because you demand that i do. stop being lazy! if you want to know what I wrote, you’ll need to READ the comments. this site isn’t here to CATER to you!!!
AGAIN – i don’t work for you, nor do i owe you any explanations, answers or anything else.
maybe you’ll find what you seek in the broken record record department once it’s up and running. after all, it was basically created for arrogant demanding WHITE people with smug *privileged* attitudes like yours. if you don’t care for my posts, simply ignore/don’t respond to them as i, for the most part, ignore yours.
got it???
@ B.R.
(The following is my reply to something you recently responded to on a similar thread)
As far as I can discern, most black people don’t “hate” white folks. For example, I don’t “hate” Eco..but I’m pretty tired of, wary and weary of people like Eco. In the real world, I would put as much space and distance between him/her and myself for obvious (or should be obvious) reasons.
After running into a lot of people like Eco during the course of a lifetime, it makes perfect sense to protect one’s self from the psychic harm whites like Eco cause PoC – so it’s natural for *many* blacks and OTHERS to erect walls and shields that keep problematic white people at bay. This isn’t being hateful in my opinion – it’s being intelligent. Because we know through experience not everyone (who’s white) deserves the benefit of the doubt – in all circumstances. Many/most whites simply cannot be trusted where non-whites are concerned. However, not trusting (or not liking) white folks isn’t the same thing as hating white people, though many of us certainly ABHOR the racist things that they do.
Of all the ways blacks “REACT” to racism/white supremacy, i.e. anger, bias, prejudice, bigotry, etc … true hate against white people is the least frequent outcome among the black collective, imo.
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@Randy
Well…I am pleasantly surprised by your voluntary admission to mis-interpratation of my comments about the unreality of Black racism. The fact that you were prepared to admit this shows to me it was probably a genuine oversight on your part. So I can commend you for the self integrity your demonstrating by honestly admitting this.
I look forward to more considered and reflective comments from you in the future.
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Matari, I definitly get what you are saying. I think I might have misrepresented what I was trying to say. I didnt mean that “hate” was the emotion most black Americans arrive at as a defence. I was just trying to implicate that some very few black Americans may arrive at a hateful state towards white people as a defence , only because it is in the human condition to react like that.
And, I dont get hate from you at all, Matari , Ive gotten great insights on here from you
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@Matari
From my perspective you are arrogant too, but in a different way. Out of us two you are the one who believes people who disagree with him, who he can’t prove wrong, simply lack wisdom. You are the one who believes your subjective world view is an objective truth everyone should accept. I don’t. I’m arrogant when I’m dealing with people who do not use nor respect logic, who use words they do not understand (like “racism” or “privilege”), who are hypocritical, who say or do immoral things. They annoy me and they bring out the bad in me.
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Im not black or white but I must say from the racism ive experienced the most was from white people, the only black people ive met that were racists also acted like thugs and seemed braindead stupid. Most of the whites that were racist to me came from better families with higher incomes.
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@white commenters and readers
Kwamla wrote:
@Randy
Well…I am pleasantly surprised by your voluntary admission to mis-interpratation of my comments about the unreality of Black racism. The fact that you were prepared to admit this shows to me it was probably a genuine oversight on your part. So I can commend you for the self integrity your demonstrating by honestly admitting this.
I look forward to more considered and reflective comments from you in the future.
This is a prime example of what I have been trying to get through to you. There is nothing to be afraid of. Respect and compassion make a difference in how you are treated in return…and that goes for all human beings. The way you present yourself is as an individual will directly affect how you are treated in return. Think about how you would handle someone that presented themselves to be an a-hole.
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@Matari
eco has presented himself all along to not being respectful of your life experience and feelings…I feel you are wasting your time on him…but that is just my opinion. 🙂
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@Raphael,
Im not black or white
Do you think that perhaps it is your racial ambiguity that has caused you to experience more racism from white people? By this I mean that it is important for many WP to be able to classify you as either one or the other – mark my words, you will have beel ‘labelled’ despite your assertion that you are neither black nor white.
You have alluded to the fact that the class of individual that you experienced racism from was better families with higher incomes – coupled with this is the need to perpetuate the myth of superiority over people of colour too hence the ‘labelling’
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@Raphael
I find your comment interesting…you said “…the only black people ive met that were racists also acted like thugs and seemed braindead stupid.” So I was wondering if that is your view of all black people?
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I am not going to comment any further for now. Reading all of the white racist comments have made me so irate that I want to yell out expletives at them…so I am going to pray and ask God for the strength to not sink to their low level of irrational thinking and behavior. see y’all later 🙂
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Michelle, honey, welcome to the club. Magnify that feeling you have by 10 and you will know how a black person feel almost everyday. You have to take breaks sometimes or you will become angry. For the most part I feel sorry for them, because I am sure heaven doesn’t have a Colored Section. Rest well.
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@ Michelle
Thanks for endorsing my comment. I’d like to do the same for what you’ve also written here:
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eco,
You said, “From my perspective you are arrogant too, but in a different way. Out of us two you are the one who believes people who disagree with him, who he can’t prove wrong, simply lack wisdom. You are the one who believes your subjective world view is an objective truth everyone should accept. I don’t. I’m arrogant when I’m dealing with people who do not use nor respect logic, who use words they do not understand (like “racism” or “privilege”), who are hypocritical, who say or do immoral things. They annoy me and they bring out the bad in me.”
Well, just because you don’t accept Matari’s or anyone else’s worldview that is different than the one you’re used to, doesn’t make it any less significant especially if there is truth and proof behind it. Your issue, to me, is that you have a hard time accepting it as something different.
What makes you think that Matari isn’t using logic, assuming you’re referring to her? Again, what makes her worldview less important than yours? By simply rejecting it is invoking arrogance. It’s one thing to disagree, but it’s another to tell that person what to think and feel in regards to what they think and feel.
In short your from what I’ve seen with your comments, your perspective is not the only perspective there is.
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Raphael,
In your comment you said “the only black people ive met that were racists also acted like thugs and seemed braindead stupid.”
Like Michelle, I’m also interested if that is how you see all or most black people.
If so, it is thoughtless to judge an entire collective based on a few. Yet, this is how this society thinks when it comes to black and brown folks. This is one reason why the disdain and fear of black people remains. This society focuses on the ones who fit their fears and stereotypes so they have a reason to continue thinking and feeling the way they do for certain reasons. And, of course, the usual reasons behind it all point to the fact that they are black and not because of racism in any form.
That is evident of an uncivilized, sick society such as the United States of America.
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@brothawolf
“Well, just because you don’t accept Matari’s or anyone else’s worldview that is different than the one you’re used to, doesn’t make it any less significant especially if there is truth and proof behind it. Your issue, to me, is that you have a hard time accepting it as something different.
What makes you think that Matari isn’t using logic, assuming you’re referring to her? Again, what makes her worldview less important than yours? By simply rejecting it is invoking arrogance. It’s one thing to disagree, but it’s another to tell that person what to think and feel in regards to what they think and feel. ”
Matari is a woman?
Anyway, are you really trying to use my own argument against me? You should try harder than that.
I know Matari isn’t using logic, because I had several conversations with her and I know ignoring logic is something she regularly does. When I first addressed Matari in this topic I’ve pointed out that she can’t prove every aspect of her world view so it’s not logical to expect that every wise person will accept it.
Matari’s world view is severely flawed, because it’s illogical, hypocritical and imprecise. Matari uses words and phrases she never bothers to define. Like “racism”. She rejects the dictionary definition but doesn’t present another one. She claims to be against racism (what does she mean by that?), but at the same time supports racism (in the dictionary sense) against white people. Thus it’s hypocritical too.
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eco,
You said, “Are you really trying to use my own argument against me? You should try harder than that.”
No. I was just assessing where you’re coming from.
Then, you said, “I know Matari isn’t using logic, because I had several conversations with her and I know ignoring logic is something she regularly does. When I first addressed Matari in this topic I’ve pointed out that she can’t prove every aspect of her world view so it’s not logical to expect that every wise person will accept it.”
Maybe she can’t prove it, but that doesn’t make it any less significant just because certain people won’t accept it. In any case why should she have to prove her worldview to skeptics? Why can’t they listen and look for evidence themselves?
And even if she does have proof, that still won’t guarantee that it still won’t get any acceptance. Do you know how many times certain commenters have asked for proof regarding certain topics here, for example, and when it was presented it was still rejected? Those people asked for proof and they got it. Yet, it’s no good to them no matter how solid or convincing it is.
Finally, you said, “Matari’s world view is severely flawed, because it’s illogical, hypocritical and imprecise. Matari uses words and phrases she never bothers to define. Like “racism”. She rejects the dictionary definition but doesn’t present another one. She claims to be against racism (what does she mean by that?), but at the same time supports racism (in the dictionary sense) against white people. Thus it’s hypocritical too.”
Okay. How is it severely flawed, illogical, hypocritical and imprecise exactly? What kind of use of the word “racism” does she use, and how is it different and less significant than the dictionary’s definition? And how is she supporting racism against white people?
Matari,
If you are a male, I really do apologize. I thought you were a female for a long time. If I’ve made a mistake, please let me know.
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Brothawolf
“If you are a male, I really do apologize. I thought you were a female for a long time. If I’ve made a mistake, please let me know.”
************
I’ve always been (and will remain) black/heterosexual/male. Appreciate you asking and clearing up the confusion.
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Brothawolf,
Eco likes to pick silly and childish fights because I haven’t and won’t give in to his demands. Go back and look (a few posts up thread) at where/how this all started and you’ll see ….
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Abagond, you should write a movie of what the world would look like had the races been switched. This would be absolutely fascinating to watch and would provoke national discussion.
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@ Nick:
That has been done – I think in France or Francophone Africa. Blacks were on top, whites were the illegal immigrants and so on. I forget the name of the film. Does anyone remember?
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There was a movie in the 1990s that starred Harry Belafonte and John Travolta…White Man’s Burden that attempted to touch on that subject, although it was a “Hollywood” type story in that it was fairly simplistic and still ended up being told through “the white lens.”
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@ everyone
I’ve stopped arguing with Randy due to the fact that everytime you counter his drivel, you spill secrets about yourself, your mind and the black culture. He and other racists become more “enlightened” as to who we are. Keep them wondering…I learned that racists whites know damn well EXACTLY what the deal is…they are the creators of the deal.
Please don’t argue with them. They are doing it on purpose.
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Africa Paradis, by beninese director Sylvestre Amoussou.
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Going along with what truthbetold said…In my experience…racists will use personal information against you to try and hurt you more. They have no intent on learning to change themselves…they use it as a weapon. But that is just from my experience.
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Abagond:
The issue of race is not for the faint of heart. Those who whine about tone and style are missing the point. Black people were violated in the worst way, we’re supposed to be upset about it. I’ve read some of the posts on this topic, and some people are more concerned with being liked than speaking from the heart. Being sweet will only get us so far, sweet don’t scare anybody. Kwamla Hesse and others on this blog need to understand that. I appreciate their kind words and all, but who are they fooling with that ish? Don’t get scared now black people!!!
Tyrone
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I wonder have you forgotten about this?
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@ Tyrone
If its about speaking from the heart then you should know words of kindness, love and respect are ones ONLY the heart knows and understands. This should tell you its about communication. The style and tone of how you communicate your message is just as important as the message itself.
You may believe you have “the TRUTH” but if you are unable to connect with people to communicate this. Why would you believe or expect they would want to make time to listen to what you have to say?
When you are unable to connect with people they start to ignore whatever “truths” you may be communicating. You could say so what? My truth is not for the faint of heart. But then you run the risk of being shoved to the corner of conversations or just being sidelined as some mumbling mad man!
Which would be a shame if you really do have something to say.
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@Kwamla
I may not always agree to your views…but the way you have presented yourself…helps me to understand where you are coming from and has opened me up to see your side of it. But I also feel it is okay to express emotion as well. There is a difference between expressing your feelings with emotion and expressing your feelings with emotion and pointing fingers, calling names, claiming and blaming individuals on here that they know nothing about. I just had that happen to me on another post. All I could do was reply with as much dignity as I could muster up at the moment and stay true to myself.
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@kwamla
Sorry…I also wanted to add…I feel that asking someone to suppress their emotion for the sake of communication is counter productive…I feel that it is oppressing the person further and keeping them from showing the effects of racism. I do agree that letting your emotion get out of hand is counter productive as well..but a person should never suppress feelings.
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Matari,
I’m really very sorry if I have insulted you in any way. I sincerely apologize. And I do see where eco was trying to wiseguy his way into the issue.
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Matari, just so you dont think you were totaly perceived one way, I perceived you as male
Dont worry, Brothawolf, it happens quite a bit , its happened to me on here also. Sometimes people directly refer to what sex or color they are , but, we might miss their post describing themselves…or , a person never describes themselves , and then, its anyones guess
It is the cyber world , and, only words coming at us , a lot is accepted on good faith…we know there are plenty of sock puppets also in the cyber world
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@ truthbetold
I hundred percent agree with you about not arguing with the racists on this blog. Much respect to those who do though, I wonder where you guys get the energy to keep on trying to change these people.
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@ silentreturn
Never try to change them…that is the key thing. If you do you may go mad.
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Good point Sharina. I still have much to learn about this mad world. A saying that my mother often tells me is that ‘you can only change those who are willing to change.’
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@ silentreturn
Those are very wise words.
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@ Mitchelle
I would agree with the need to express emotions. Finding an outlet to do this safely is key. There is nothing wrong with expressing yourself. In fact just being yourself should be a natural part of this. Unfortunately, we are not always allowed or given the space to express ourselves naturally in this way.
However, forums like these create that space and provide a much needed opportunity to vent built up tightly held emotionally feelings (frustrations) which many of us may get slightly overwhelmed in releasing. This is particularly true when dealing with emotive subjects like Racism.
With all actions, whether they be released in the form of physical or emotional energy, comes responsibility. This is something we all have to learn starting from a child. In time we learn that other people respond to us differently relative to the energy we give out and we can use this as a guide to how others are receiving us.
Communication is always more than just one way. So its important to take responsibility for what you give out as well as what you receive. In my view this simply means being accountable.
I don’t have any problems with people expressing themselves to me as fully and as emotionally as they desire to be…So long as they are prepared to be fully accountable for what they may get back on the receiving end of their expression.
Sadly not everyone is prepared to take responsibility in this way (and they don’t have to) and this blog can testify to many examples of people who illustrate this point. Still. It does provide the space and opportunity for us all to learn…Thats IF we are ready to do so of course!
I believe in encouraging people to take up that opportunity – when I can!
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-Brothawolf
No problem.
-B.R.
Thanks again. I find you among the most forward thinking/feeling, receptive and positive people that post regularly. I’m glad you’re here!
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@brothawolf
“Maybe she can’t prove it, but that doesn’t make it any less significant just because certain people won’t accept it. In any case why should she have to prove her worldview to skeptics?”
You’ve missed or ignored my point and changed the discussed situation. This isn’t about Matari’s worldview being more/less significant. If you can’t prove something is true then you have no right to expect (then it’s not logical to expect) that everyone will agree with you and you have no right to say that those who disagree are unwise.
I can’t prove certain aspects of my worldview either, but I’m smart enough to know that those who do not accept my opinions are not necessarily dumb or deficient in some other way.
“And even if she does have proof, that still won’t guarantee that it still won’t get any acceptance. Do you know how many times certain commenters have asked for proof regarding certain topics here, for example, and when it was presented it was still rejected?”
Having proof would give Matari the right to say that those who disagree with him are wrong. He doesn’t have proof, so his stance is illogical.
“Okay. How is it severely flawed, illogical, hypocritical and imprecise exactly? What kind of use of the word “racism” does she use, and how is it different and less significant than the dictionary’s definition? And how is she supporting racism against white people? ”
It’s imprecise, because it doesn’t rely on definitions but on vague ideas about objects and terms. What does “racism” mean to Matari?
Here
he says: “To say that anyone other than whites can be racists is like saying that non-whites BENEFIT and derive privileges from living a racist system that places them beneath whites.”
So an East Asian person saying black people are lazy and Jewish people are greedy is… What? Voicing an opinion? Apparently that’s not racist according to Matari.
It’s hypocritical, because it sees actions as evil only when certain groups of people are targeted.
For example: people who believe black people are inferior are clearly evil as we can see in this comment https://abagond.wordpress.com/2012/05/29/blacks-are-just-as-racist/#comment-131526
But! people who believe white people are inferior are not a big deal at all. It’s something we can lightheartedly joke about:
It’s illogical, because it is not based on logical reasoning, it relies on subjective opinions and imprecise definitions. Logic clearly wasn’t applied to statements that ‘forget’ Asian people exist or that people can be racist against their own racial group.
I should also point out Matari’s worldview is apparently immoral too. He seems to believe that white people should be collectively held responsible for the actions of other white people. I really hope it’s clear to everyone how being held accountable for the actions of people you have no control over is problematic, to say the least.
I feel I’ve made my points clear yet somehow I can sense you will try to distort them like you did with my “there’s no proof, so it’s not logical to expect everyone to agree” point. Anyway, I’m done. I’ve already wasted too much time on this.
@Matari
“Eco likes to pick silly and childish fights because I haven’t and won’t give in to his demands. ”
I wasn’t demanding. I simply repeatedly asked about your definition of racism and you keep telling me to read other unspecified comments. You haven’t told me what the definition is and from what I’ve noticed you haven’t presented it on other occasion either. It seems you believe that your opinions on racism construct a definition and that makes me want to add “definition” to the list of words you do not understand.
I would like to use this occasion to announce that I have constructed a solution that could end world hunger and the fact that nobody will ever see it does not suggest it doesn’t exist. Don’t ask me to prove it! I will not give in to your arrogant demands!
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In a long comment that’s currently in moderation I’ve linked this post:
instead of this one:
Sorry!
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Matari, Ive learned a lot on here from you (and Brothawolf , for that matter) about “racism”, “whiteness” , and how it affects us as Americans and around the world
Its in my great interest to try to listen and understand and be receptive to the opinions and feelings of various contributors on this blog
Ive gained a lot of knowledge just reading some of the posters on here ….learned about the Dogon, Dr Ani , about great counter arguments to racist notions , and learned from each individuals personal accounts of their experiances with racism out here
I truly apreciate your kind words
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@ Kwamla
I hope I would never do one of the 21 things or anything like them. That does not mean I am not racist, though, just that I do not take it to the extremes that some white people do.
For those who define racism as prejudice + power, I would see myself and most black people as mainly just prejudiced, not racist.
But I am one of those who goes by the dictionary meaning: the belief that races are different by nature with some races being better than others. I see racism mainly as an ideology which can affect action.
By that definition I believe that most Americans, regardless of race, are racist to one degree or another. White racism is so much a part of the culture that it is hard to avoid. For blacks it mainly takes the form of internalized racism. I find that to be a far more useful insight than to say, “Blacks cannot be racist because they lack power.”
In my experience most people define racism to exclude themselves. So it is always there and never here. People like Doug, for example, think they are not racist because they see racism as requiring hatred and false beliefs. Therefore as long as he sticks to contempt and “science” he is safe.
So these non-dictionary meanings of racism I find to be more self-serving than useful.
Racism can be different in degree and kind. It can be internalized or externalized or both. It can come out as intellectual bias, contempt, hatred, even violence. Violent racism I would count as “worse” than, say, a racist bias in one’s thoughts. I do not see that as subjective or a matter of mere taste.
The 21 things in the post are examples of how whites carry racism to a greater extreme than blacks. Some require power but not all.
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@ Abagond
Thanks for getting back to me and responding. Theres much I could say but lets start by saying the definition of racism that some of us use here, I think, is fundamentally flawed. Which is why it exposes itself in this discussion about Black racism
“…For those who define racism as prejudice + power, I would see myself and most black people as mainly just prejudiced, not racist…”
Its flawed for two reasons: Its defined by the single elements of prejudice & power which ANYONE can have. Prejudice can be as basic as preferring Tea over Coffee to having an irrational aversion to the colour purple! We all have this capacity in our typical human natures.
Power is something again we all have in varying degrees. Those who follow this definition will say white people typically have more of this power (by virtue of their occupied positions in society) so are in a stronger position to exercise their prejudices most of the time. While one can agree there is some truth to this in doing so it plays down or denies the fact that we all have, irrespective of who we are, our own personal power to affect change.. Its we who choose how to (or not to) exercise this.
The second reason its flawed is that it must assume (because we all have these two elements) that EVERYONE can be racist too! Something you have repeatedly been called up on – yourself – of admitting to. Even though in the very same usage of this definition (above) you would seek to exclude yourself and Black people from being labelled as racist. Its clear if you subscribe to this inadequate definition of racism you will, as explained here, trip up on your own logic!
You can’t label white people as racist then exclude and then include Black people as being racist too! It doesn’t make sense…
“…But I am one of those who goes by the dictionary meaning: the belief that races are different by nature with some races being better than others. I see racism mainly as an ideology which can affect action…”
This is another trap which is easy to fall into…If you subscribe to the belief that races are different by nature with some being better than others then you are subscribing to racist concepts and terminology which are identical to what some of the race realists who frequent your blog also believe. So of course if you believe in the existence of multiple races then YES! You can consider yourself to be racist too!
This begs the question: why would you post so many items intimately describing how racist American white people can be. So what? Black people can be racist too? It doesn’t matter how much or how little. If they can be they will because the potential exists and will always be there.
“…So these non-dictionary meanings of racism I find to be more self-serving than useful…”
Which would be my point entirely and also why I wouldn’t bother to use any of them!. None of them give the definition you described for Black racism as: Internalized racism so they again should be taken and seen as self serving.
We need to use our own definitions of racism. Ones that express the true dynamics of its effects on ourselves (Black people & POC) and others (white people) otherwise we fall foul of these self serving “ill-logical” traps.
I have already given my own working definition on this topic in this comment here:
I don’t claim for it to be perfect but it definitely avoids the pit falls of the logic traps inherent in the power + prejudice definition.
I also think your current definitions of racism are not serving you. Particularly in respect of some of the excellent commentaries you’ve written on this subject exposing the ideological racism inherent in white American/Western culture.
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@Kwamla Hesse
@truthbetold
Blackman, I sincerely apologize for misreading your earlier comments. I made the mistake of writing when angry, which is not a good thing. I got into a lil’ tit for tat with duckduck, and my mind got blowed. I’ve had a chance to read what you’ve said on this topic, and you make a lot of sense. Also, i’d like to apologize to truthbetold and all of the other mixed-race members. I made some nasty remarks about the one drop crowd because of duckduck, my comments were hurtful in hindsight. My hot-bloodedness caused me to say some things that should not have been said. Abagond, sorry for being a jack***. Maybe Tami Roman isn’t the only one who needs anger management, just saying.
Tyrone
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That’s funny. I’ve never done any of those things. But I must be racist because one of my great-great-great relatives had the potential to be involved with slavery. Good logic.
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@ Noyb
If you never done any of those things then you know they do not apply to you, so they fact that you failed to realize that says it may actual apply in this case.
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correction what*
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@Noyb
I have read a few of your comments on here and something you should try to do is read why abagond writes this blog and do a little more reading so that you can see that this is not about ALL whites…only the ones it pertains to. I will tell you just like I tell everyone that comes on here. If you think you are not racist then you will listen to what is considered racist in the eyes of the beholder and you will listen and learn with compassion so that you can refrain from doing those things and grow. I am white…I didn’t think I was racist…but when I started reading this blog I realized that I have said things that are actually racist and I didn’t know they were because I never thought about it that way. But some terms and phrases were created in slave days of old and now I research phrases before I use them again. I learn things everyday that I come on here because there are so many people on here willing to answer your questions. If you come on here blindly and don’t read about this blog and the person writing it…then you will post things that make you appear to be ignorant. You don’t have to agree with everything that is posted…but if you want people to listen to you and take you seriously…well you might try and be a little more respectful and stop making assumptions. It is better to ask if you are not sure. And if you don’t…and you keep making these types of comments…I will assume you are a Troll and treat you accordingly.
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I’m sure all of the people who fought for human rights would be so proud. They have accomplished so much, and continued to fight. EVERYONE IS CREATED EQUAL. It’s sites like this where people can whine and continue to say they’re being victimized that spreads hatred and inequality. If you sincerely have feelings of being oppressed or discriminated against, it’s illegal, why not do something like our forefathers, instead of comlpaining on a webpage, do something positive so that future generations don’t have to have the same problems. Stop painting all races with the same brush… isn’t that how stereotyping and racism/hatred spreads? Be the change you want to see in the world!!!
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@lol
If you sincerely have feelings of being oppressed or discriminated against, it’s illegal, why not do something like our forefathers, instead of comlpaining on a webpage, do something positive so that future generations don’t have to have the same problems.
What do you suggest?
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Stop acting like victims and spreading hate agains other races.
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@lol
Stop acting like victims and spreading hate agains other races.
Perhaps people are responding to the way they are being treated….
Why do you assume that people arent doing something in their day to day lives?
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Well, perhaps they should respond to the situation when it happens and not come on here and generalizations about how particular races… Instead of spreading hatred against particular people.
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@ lol
Most of them do respond to the situation when it happens but it does not really change much of anything.
“Stop acting like victims and spreading hate agains other races.”—See the issue is not with other races and I guess that really has to do with your failed comprehension kills. Last time I checked whites/Caucasians are only 1 race.
Also because you seem to be new there are commenters on this board that are white and do feel that a lot of what people of color on this board have experienced is valid.
I suggest you actually read what the blog is talking about. Your comment suggests that you did not. Had you done so you would now this is not referring to all whites, but whites that use the argument of blacks are just as racist when confronted with there racism.
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Perhaps YOU should re-read the comments on this page and then say that you are not spreading racism and hatred. I’m not going to respond to your pettiness about details.
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@ lol
I have read them and I can securely say most of them are words of hurt for there situations. “THEIR” situation. They experienced it so how is that spreading hate or racism. Heck I read the comments and I don’t hate whites. I do not like “racist” whites but then again I don’t like “racist” period.
“I’m not going to respond to your pettiness about details.”—Then don’t but had you paid attention to detail then you would have a clue what the blog was about instead of making yourself look like an azz.
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@lol
Well, perhaps they should respond to the situation when it happens and not come on here and generalizations about how particular races… Instead of spreading hatred against particular people.
I agree with Sharina. I think you need to read some of the posts and view the comments on here in that context. The posts are based on the experiences of PoC – whether it is discussed on here or not doesnt make the situation go away or any less a point of discussion. The intention is to learn something in sharing common experiences. Some may say it is cathartic to realise that people are not alone in encountering these issues.
Would you feel this thread was more valid if people were coming on here and talking about how they ‘bested’ some racist person? Perhaps, the people that comment on here are shocked/suprised/appalled/upset that they are still having to deal with these issues in this day and age….
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They do not have to be racist to feel good about their position in society. Whites must.
They are in danger of internalized racism because whites flood the culture with racist messages as required by #2don’t excuse the insanity of whites on this planet just because you’re half-white. Biracial folk who are half-white should avoid making fools of themselves on this blog and other blogs. Ya’ll are not black, duck, black folk are not obligated to care about you one bit…Recognize! This is the slippery-slope that is “mulattoness” black people. Duck, feels the need to ignore the truth because he doesn’t wanna upset the white parent…Too Bad! Duck, you need to grow up, black people are not feelin’ you like that. Mutt or Blackman…You Decide?
two examples in how many paragraphs….. you are a racist/hater. I won’t be responding any further to the ignorant rantings of someone who believes in the hatred they spread. Im sure the KKK/Hitler believed in their causes as well. YOU are the reason for racism and hatred!
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@lol
Tyrone’s apology
Tyrone realized what he said was VERY wrong. There is nothing in the comments to continue to be angered by but you have the freedom to feel however you want.
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@lol
“They do not have to be racist to feel good about their position in society. Whites must.”–There are actually whites that function this way. They are called racists. I am not white so I can’t give you an example, but I am sure Michelle can fill you in on what the inner circle does and think, but based on many experience of those in the room they have actual seen were a white person has belittled them to make themselves feel good.
“They are in danger of internalized racism because whites flood the culture with racist messages as required by #2don’t excuse the insanity of whites on this planet just because you’re half-white. Biracial folk who are half-white should avoid making fools of themselves on this blog and other blogs. Ya’ll are not black, duck, black folk are not obligated to care about you one bit…Recognize! This is the slippery-slope that is “mulattoness” black people. Duck, feels the need to ignore the truth because he doesn’t wanna upset the white parent…Too Bad! Duck, you need to grow up, black people are not feelin’ you like that. Mutt or Blackman…You Decide?”—You managed to take the comment of one person and conclude that this whole room promotes racism and hatred. I don’t agree with him, but I am sure his experiences have led him to that point.
I am racist how? You still can not point that out. You conclude I am racist based on me telling you to actually do research and not jump to conclusions. Oh yea. That makes me so racist and it makes you so stupid. I even stated in my last blog that I don’t hate whites so are you too dumb to read now. I treat whites the way I treat any other group of people…no better and no less, but if I run across a “racist” white I am not going to treat them as the gift to all. You make the choice to be naive, but I have a will make the choice to educate myself of what is really out there.
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@ Demerera
I am going to say a shock factor for me. I was raised to believe things had gotten better and things were better. It was such a surprise to come online and find based on some people’s comments that it still exists. People still hate black people and the excuses for it are just pathetic at best. Most of them have used the argument “blacks are just as racist” or “blacks are the most racist people on earth.”
I have said it once and I have said it again Whites that are insecure act like high school bullies who have to pick on a belittle POC to maintain popularity or superiority. I am grateful to have meet and grow up around whites that do not feel that way. I know not everyone has and I feel for them.
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Oh my word…I am just going to start cutting and pasting my comments to these people because this is getting ridiculous how many people come on here pointing fingers and claiming this is a racist site!
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I will be right back…let me find one…lol 😀
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@lol
Here is one that was just before your comment it was directed at someone else but the same applies to you….
I have read a few of your comments on here and something you should try to do is read why abagond writes this blog and do a little more reading so that you can see that this is not about ALL whites…only the ones it pertains to. I will tell you just like I tell everyone that comes on here. If you think you are not racist then you will listen to what is considered racist in the eyes of the beholder and you will listen and learn with compassion so that you can refrain from doing those things and grow. I am white…I didn’t think I was racist…but when I started reading this blog I realized that I have said things that are actually racist and I didn’t know they were because I never thought about it that way. But some terms and phrases were created in slave days of old and now I research phrases before I use them again. I learn things everyday that I come on here because there are so many people on here willing to answer your questions. If you come on here blindly and don’t read about this blog and the person writing it…then you will post things that make you appear to be ignorant. You don’t have to agree with everything that is posted…but if you want people to listen to you and take you seriously…well you might try and be a little more respectful and stop making assumptions. It is better to ask if you are not sure. And if you don’t…and you keep making these types of comments…I will assume you are a Troll and treat you accordingly.
There are more like this because there are quite a few white people that come on here and act…well…like you. Instead of listening to life experiences and feeling from those experiences they assume and start ranting…like you did. That is not a good way to communicate and learn. The greatest thing that I take away from this site is the things I learn about myself from listening to others experiences and emotions. If they did not do this…then I would have gone on believing that I was not racist and not been able to grow and learn not to do what I have done in the past that may have caused someone pain. We are not perfect…some of us have bouts of rage…and some have came back and apologized. Recognizing and acknowledging when you are wrong is important for communication…especially on here…if you want to be taken seriously.
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I am actually beginning to wonder if they see the title and come in with the purpose of bashing blacks themselves and then realize it is not what they thought and start calling everyone in the room racist.
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@Sharina
I am going to say a shock factor for me. I was raised to believe things had gotten better and things were better.
If we put things in perspective, motions were set in the past that have influenced the future. There are things in place to ensure a greater level and appreciation and understanding of the issues PoC face however, it takes a certain kind of individual to take these things on board, learn from them and implement them in day to day life – this is where the problem lies.
People in privileged postions may acknowledge things, but are reluctant to potentially reliquish their place in society OR acknowledge the damage that has been done by ancestors past – there is a sense of guilt that comes with this and many just cant cope with the burden.
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@ Demerera
That was very well said. I agree.
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@Sharina
I have actually wondered the same thing! We should ask them! 😀
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Honestly, you guys have nothing to complain about. I’ve read LoL’s comments and they seems to be correctly founded and not just pointing around and saying that everyone’s racist. Everything you are using an example of what bad people do, not just caucasian. Do you think you are the only race that is discriminated against? This whole article you are painting one race with the same paint brush. I honestly know no one who has ever done any of those things.
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@ Kevin
If you believe lol to be correct then you also believe that we are all making racist comments and I guess you too believe I am racist. lol pointed out one persons comments and presumed that everyone was promoting racism and hatred. Which shows to me like him you did not read the post in it’s entirety. It also shows you do not understand what the post was about. You also do not realize it is not talking about all whites, but hey as my husband always says “A hit dog will holler.”
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Why do you assume that you’re right? It’s about people who support this type of site and believe that all whites are raciest.
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^^^^^ Broken record….
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@ Kevin
I don’t assume I am right. It is a matter of reading not just the post but other peoples comments to determine what the intent of the article is. Heck is you still believe that then ask the poster. He will be happy to explain.
I have been on this site back and forth for a month now and while I do read the articles I also take in different people opinions. There are a mixture here. Some white, some mixed, some Asian, and some black. You glanced at the article and right there assumed that it was a bunch of black people bashing whites. Many of them in here have white friends and family members. It is not a hatred for whites or some may have to admit hatred of themselves.
Many of them know not all whites are racist. Again many of them frequent this chat. Actually check out other post to see that. As for this one at hand it is referring to a common argument used by racist whites “Blacks are just as racist.” I have only heard it from racist whites so I know it does not apply to all whites.
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@ Cleonette
I drink to that….
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@Cleonette are you 8? I only have 2 posts (three now) and I didn’t say anything the same.
@Sharina The only time I’ve heard “Whites” say that is when they’ve already said something about it. And I’m not just being rude. It wouldn’t make sense unless the other person brought it up first.
And I’m not talking about the comments, I’m talking about the actual article. There complaining about things that don’t affect anyone’s lives, and the ones that do are defiantly not so problematic that it would really affect someone.
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And it’s hard for people to learn from this site when that complain about something, and instead of trying to explain, making rude comments.
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and if it was just about whites who are racist, then it wasn’t necessary to put “whites” instead of “Other people say blacks are just as racist.”
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@ Kevin
You came in with an opinion. You never said could someone explain this to me which showed everyone that you did not want to learn anything. So save the people are complaining and making rude comments mess because I hate it when people play victim after starting a fire.
It is all great that you have heard the statement in that scenario, but I can point you to several sites where a white individual said it usually in the situation where a racist situation was pointed out to them and in defense they would say “blacks are just as racist” or “blacks are too sensitive” or lets not forget when a black guy is murders and the comment is “blacks are so racist they are racist against themselves.”
“And I’m not talking about the comments, I’m talking about the actual article.”—Your whole argument is that it promotes hatred and racism, so what better proof that it does not than the comments from others. Should those comments not be all hail racism and hate against whites if the article is indeed promoting racism and hatred?
Again you are agreeing with lol who believed that I was a race hater and also believed the comments were racist, so if that is the case then by all means the comments are proof base on his logic.
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Sharina writes:
“I am actually beginning to wonder if they see the title and come in with the purpose of bashing blacks themselves and then realize it is not what they thought and start calling everyone in the room racist.”
—
BINGO!
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@Kevin
“and if it was just about whites who are racist, then it wasn’t necessary to put “whites” instead of “Other people say blacks are just as racist.”—I am unsure what you are talking about in this statement.
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@ Kevin
Now to explain this article to you. Believe it or not “Blacks are just as racist.” is a common defense mechanism that racist whites used when faced with there own racism. Do some research to white racist websites.
Now the article explains what makes them more racist. While I agree that much of this does not happen today it is something that build on to the belief that the treatment of blacks is acceptable. #7 still happens today. I can’t count how many white racist I have ran into online that has stated that blacks women can not be hot or sexy. I have actually ran into a white woman who was made to feel as if she was not pretty because of her dark hair and dark eyes. Black or any type of dark features are considered evil or ugly. #13 is today because white racist men are always curious about how big a black man’s penis is. #15 happens today and contrary to belief affirmative action does nothing for black people. Last to get hired first to get fired. Now this is just a few and you believe that it is not problematic, but it is. You have people so scared of black people that many of them are being shot for no reason and the lunatic are claiming self-defense (more cases than Martin and I can share). Penis envy may seem small but it actually leads to aggressive jealous which boils up other hatred towards the individuals. Hiring issue is problematic because it is not allowing hardworking qualified men to work and provide for themselves and their families.
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#7 That happens to everyone. Women are pressured to be thin everywhere, starting at a young age. It’s not just black’s problem with self image. I have an African American friend (X-Friend) who used to comment on how she could see the veins in my arm because I was so pale, and she used to make fun of me.
#13 There is one thing about how chinese men are supposed to have small ones. Every race has had that stereotype.
#15 Same with East Indians, Mexicans, and many other races.
All of your examples are either over exaggerated or apply to everyone.
And in the comment above:
I mean that there was no need to say “white people” if they meant white people who are racist. They could have just said racist people in general.
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@ Kevin
They are not talking about racist people in general. The article is about racist whites. You do realize there is a difference between white people and racist whites?
#7 “Pushed a strange, racist standard of beauty on the world through the fashion and film industry.” The standard of beauty to all is thin, but do tell me how many magazines (beauty mags) do you see with actual black women in them, How many black playmates are there? If we look at film, aside from tyler perry movies, how many major films have had black female actresses. Even though I love Victoria Secrets…please tell me how many of those models are black. Heck check out the top sexiest women and tell me how many of them are actually black and rank on the list. Last one I saw a racist white said they only put the black girls on it because blacks have to be in everything.
#13 “Had strange homosexual hang-ups about white men’s penises.”–This is not about stereotypes but rather about an obsession. I have seen less of this but it still applies to the ones I have seen mention this. Last racist I ran across said “black mens penis are not that big” another said “atleast that is big because there brains are not.”
#15 “Caused high white unemployment rates through racist hiring practices – or even affirmative action.”—Let a racist tell it only blacks benefit from affirmative action. I see plenty of east Indians with jobs, usually technical so exactly how does #15 apply to them. Mexicans will take whatever jobs they can find for there family usually construction, so miss again. Asian are almost always hired for jobs and it is rare that they are not so again unless any of these people are darn near black in skin color then they are given jobs almost at a drop of a dime. If a Mexican and a black were going for the same job, then who would be hired first? I know a few companies that are facing charges for hiring illegals.
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@ Kevin
While many of these have been done in the past and some of it now the point is that “Can we as black people do this?” We are not able to carry out those acts to the magnitude that white people can.
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@ Kevin
Read this part of the post very carefully and take in what it is saying. This should explain what is being said and you should find it is not what you think.
“True, blacks lack the power to carry out some of these. Like they do not control the labour market or the fashion industry. But many they could do and yet do not.
The Just As Racist model cannot account for this. It cannot account for Tyler Perry films, for example, which demean blacks, not whites. That is because it has a false understanding of how and why people are racist. It sees it as a common human failing – tribalism and so on. But that is not it: instead it comes down to power or the lack thereof.
In the case of blacks in America their lack of power means:
They cannot carry out many of the above examples. Whites can.
They do not have to be racist to feel good about their position in society. Whites must.
They are in danger of internalized racism because whites flood the culture with racist messages as required by #2.
So for blacks the danger is not racism against whites but against themselves!”
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Yeah I do. But why target white people in general? That’s why it seems like a white hating site.
#2 I can name 10 right now for the playboy bunny thing: Jennifer Jackson, Venice Kong, Reneé Tenison, Stephanie Adams, Elan Carter, Karin Taylor, Daphneé Lynn-Duplaix, Neferteri Shepherd, Qiana Chase and Ida Ljungqvist.
For the movie thing:
(This is probably one of your most over exaggerated comments)
http://myfavoritestars.blog.com/2010/07/17/black-female-actresses/
For the top hundred thing: You’re looking for a specific race. How many French would be on that list? How many Dutch? How many scottish? Probably the same as black. You’re looking for a specific race, what do you expect?
#15 Honestly, are you a troll?
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@ Kevin
If you read the blog you will have an answer to all you questions and I would not be repeating my self. Again can blacks or any person of color for that matter accomplish any of those things that whites have in 1-21. Not just now but in history itself? The answer is no, so other races are irrelevant because they have not. That is why the focus is on whites. DUH. The issues being whites have the power to do this and if you would read you would know that. The issue is not so much whether it is done today or not.
Kudos on the black playmates was not aware there was that many.
As far as the movie thing you misunderstand. I wanted you to name a black actress that actually played in a major movie besides Halle Berry. I already know there are black actresses and actors.
Word of advice. French, Dutch, and Scottish are not races.
No, I am not a troll.I am completely on topic with the subject matter at hand and it should not offend anyone anymore than other things that have been said here. Some may consider you a troll to be honest.
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I can’t understand you in the first paragraph.
Here is an actress that played a major part in a movie, just off of the top of my head:
http://www.imdb.com/name/nm2829737/
http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0001451/
http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000586/
And I wasn’t calling you a troll because I thought you were off topic, it was because of how ridiculous that whole statement was.
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@ Kevin
Most posters including lol are thrown off by the 1-21. They see someone talking about all the bad whites have done and they are upset that it is even being brought up. Thus the belief that the post is spreading racism and hatred. They don’t actually read past that to know what else is being said about it.
“blacks are just as racist” is a faulty defense mechanism and 1-21 explains why it is and why it pretty much can not be true. It is actually as simple as that.
“The Just As Racist model cannot account for this. It cannot account for Tyler Perry films, for example, which demean blacks, not whites. That is because it has a false understanding of how and why people are racist. It sees it as a common human failing – tribalism and so on. But that is not it: instead it comes down to power or the lack thereof.”—This is the answer you seek in regards to what the post is about. Whites have power and can and have at some point asserted the 1-21.
I could spend all night explaining to you which part of 1-21 is today and its dangers and which part is old and its dangers of the past, but what point would it be? You are not reading it so you would still have a hard time understanding it.
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@ kevin
Not all whites today can say they are guilty of doing those things but in terms of has it been done by whites then yes. Whites/Caucasian have done much of that and on a large scale and if a large group decided they wanted to today then it would be done. Now in regards to specifying racist whites from whites that can be done, but I think most of us believe people know what type of whites we are referring to. It also depends on what the post is about.
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What would I not be getting about the “1-21” thing? They’re saying that black people cannot be as racist as white people because black people have never used white people as slaves, forced us to learn their culture, and pretty much oppressed them. That black people have the power to do this, but they choose not to. Or they don’t have the power to do it because of their position in society. It’s extremely frustrating to read your comments when you just assume what people are thinking or what they comprehend. You have no idea what Lol or I was thinking.
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You realize that there are no people who were slaves, or who owned slaves still alive, right? And you also realize that any race could try anything right now, and it could be done? You’re using hypotheticals here. It doesn’t make sense to me why you would want to complain about this… I don’t complain about the plague that asians brought to the Europeans, because it has never once in my life affected me. The only ones on that list that apply to anyone, apply to everyone.
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And please don’t confuse me with saying that slavery was alright. It’s awful that humans could ever do that to anyone.
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@ kevin
Then I will wait on you to read past the 1-21 then. Also what statement from any of my post indicted that I claimed to know what you were thinking? As far as what you comprehend I mainly asked you to read for yourself, so where are you getting the idea that I have concluded what you can and can not comprehend?
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@ Kevin
At this point I am going to conclude either you are not reading my post or you are not comprehending them. You do realize this will be the second time or perhaps third that I am telling you that many of the things mentioned in 1-21 is of the past and not today?
“And you also realize that any race could try anything right now, and it could be done?”—Who is the majority? So no not any race could try this today.
“The only ones on that list that apply to anyone, apply to everyone.”—It can apply to everyone but the question is not whether it can it is whether it has.
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@ Kevin
Now that it appears you have read and determined what the post means…explain to me at what point is it promoting racism and hatred as you and lol claimed it did?
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@ Kevin
How is it ridiculous? It is not a lie. It is actually true. A business owner and his wife are facing charges for hiring illegals Mexicans to work for them and if you call dell who are you likely going to get…a black man or an east Indian?
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@ Kevin
What is there not to understand about the first paragraph?
“If you read the blog you will have an answer to all you questions and I would not be repeating my self. Again can blacks or any person of color for that matter accomplish any of those things that whites have in 1-21? Not just now but in history itself? The answer is no, so other races are irrelevant because they have not. That is why the focus is on whites. DUH. The issues being whites have the power to do this and if you would read you would know that. The issue is not so much whether it is done today or not.”
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That’s my point! It happened in the past! How does what happened in the past classify us now?
And the majority is Asian… What’s your point?
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@ Kevin
That is my point in regards to you not reading; not just the blog but my posts back to you. My point is and has been that whites have asserted one of the 1-21 not just in the past but in the present today. I never said all of them were done today, which leaves me to believe you misunderstood. Secondly I asked you in a previous post has any other person of color (which includes Asians) done what whites have done? That is still an unanswered question.
“How does what happened in the past classify us now? “—I never once said that classifies us now. Your claims was the site promotes racism and hatred. I simply pointed to what the blog was about and brought you back to the point of how it promotes racism and hatred when it is merely pointing out something as simple as how blacks can not be just as racist because of lack of power. The few questions I did point out was just to show things that actually do happen today whether you notice or not.
Now if you want to discuss how it classifies us now then you will have to ask one of the others on here who have more information on how the past pertains to us now.
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I recommend Abagond since it is his blog.
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http://researchnews.osu.edu/archive/whtslav.htm
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http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1390205/Whites-suffer-racism-blacks-Study-shows-white-people-believe-discriminated-against.html
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@ Kevin
Just because Abagond pointed out some facts that have been proven in history books does not mean he is promoting hatred and racism. You and lol asserted that opinion and that is why I asked you to read and determine what the blog was about until you understood it for yourself not understand it for me or anyone else in this room.
Black do not have power. Sure Asians could obtain power and take over if they wanted to and they may, but this is hypothetical it is not fact. In today’s age whites do have that power and can use it if they wanted to and in some cases have. It boils down to having that power. Once you have that power then you actually have a choice. Think about it in terms of United States. It has a large population but it does not have the largest, yet it is considered to be powerful and has enforced itself in other countries whether they like it or not.
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Blacks can just be just as racist, it has nothing to do with “Power”. I’m not really understanding what power we supposedly have though… And I wasn’t agreeing with Lol’s comment about the site, since I haven’t really read any other parts of it, I was talking about this specific page.
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@ Kevin
I usually don’t read studies as a general rule, but I read that one and it was quite interesting that whites actually felt discriminated against. Then I happened to read some of the comments and wow. Again the article never said blacks were not racist, but not to the magnitude of whites.
As far as the other article. I have read it and I am not denying white slaves. Every race has been slaves at some point, so kudos for resurfacing that article. One thing I want to note is that blacks were not just slaves in America.
So far you have shown a person of color having slaves 1-3.
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@ Kevin
I am referring to this specific page as well. Again if you are agreeing with lol’s comment on the site how is it promoting racism and hatred?
You keep saying that yet you have pointed to nothing that supports that statement. You have not read others comments to prove that we are all talking hatred of white people.
You claim the blog itself is but you have yet to point out what in the blog says that. You only prove 1-3 as something possible blacks have done, but your article only says Muslims that lived in Africa and I hate to say this but other races lived in Africa and many races are Muslims (not just blacks). As far as 4-21 you can not say a person of color has done and you have not provided proof of it, so with that list alone how is it that “blacks are just as racist?”
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@ Kevin
Here is a blog to better explain your question of how power fits in to the equation.
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@ Kevin
This post is about those who say “Blacks are just as racist!” – meaning just as racist as whites. So I listed 21 ways in which whites have been or still are more racist than blacks. It compares white racism and black racism only. It is not about ALL whites. It has nothing to do with Asians or Mexicans. I do not see how comparing racisms is hateful or spreads racism.
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@Kevin
Blacks can just be just as racist, it has nothing to do with “Power”. I’m not really understanding what power we supposedly have though…
Racism IS OFTEN connected to power. If a person is racist, they can and will use it to thwart and oppress and individual by simple definition of their skin colour.
Media, commerce and industry is predominatly White owned the world over – right?IF the said WP had a mind to, based on their own prejudices, they could exert significant influence to ensure that it is difficult or nigh on impossible for BP to progress.
Ok, we know there is such a thing as ‘positive discrimination’ which you guys call ‘affirmative action’ however, this is often used by individuals to ‘screen’ applicants rather than encourage them to ‘adhere’ to legislation. I wrote on another blog about a fella I used to work with who’s father owned an engineering company. The dad made a point of viewing CV’s and screening out any names that sounded Pakistani or ‘foreign’.
True, BP can be racist however, the bottom line is, generally they are not in influential positions which have the potentially to negatively affect and impact the people that they may discriminate against.
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@ Demerera
Unfortunately this “power + prejudice” is a flawed concept. Contradictions in Abagond’s post and now yours keep repeatedly pointing this out.
Even though you question the usage of power in defining racism you still end up using the same term to explain it. While maintaining a contradictory position that Black people can be racist too.
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@Kevin
“Blacks can just be just as racist, it has nothing to do with “Power”. I’m not really understanding what power we supposedly have though… And I wasn’t agreeing with Lol’s comment about the site, since I haven’t really read any other parts of it, I was talking about this specific page.”
The thing that stood out to me about this comment is…that even you put “can” in the first sentence. Yes…everyone “can” have the potential to be racist…black people are not near as racist as white people. I have traveled to many places in the US and abroad and been among many cultures…and the one thing that I found true was that racism is primarily among whites. Power does play a huge role in racism and it is the white men that hold most of that power. They have held that power in this country since before the Declaration of Independence. I don’t understand, as a white person myself, how you can not see that. You would have to read more on this site to understand this article. You have come in on a page that is related to others…which happens often on this site. These articles are not just something the author has picked out of a hat to talk about. These articles derive from personal experiences and then evolve into other areas as well. But you would have to read about the purpose of this site and other articles to be able to understand that. But a lot of people come on here to one article and automatically think it is a racist site and that is not true. That is not saying that some individuals that come on here aren’t racist…We can all see who is by the things they post…and we comment to those individuals in response to their ignorance. You will see emotional and sometimes angry comments because these topics are very real to most of the individuals on here. They live with racism that affects them daily and to come on here and condemn them for their feelings and personal experiences is quite rude and self serving. If you want to understand this site and the people on here…I would suggest that you read more.
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Kevin managed to prove one point that Michelle and I had. Which is he came in here with the purpose of bashing blacks and was surprised to find what the blog was actually about. I was suspect when he co-signed with lol and went through several posts without having any clue what he had co-signed to. I also find it funny he read lol comments but maintained he did not read the other comments.
Also as per my statement “A hit dog will holler” he was defending a position but claimed it was not him, Thus I concluded he was racist before he got to his final comment. I just hate that we had to go around in circles before he realized that he did not have an answer for how the site was promoting racism and hatred.
Funny he ran off saying “blacks are just as racist” himself and he maintained that it was not something he has heard whites say unless someone said it to them first.
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@ Michelle
Remember when we said they read the “blacks are just as racist” and come in with the purpose of bashing blacks?? He just proved it.
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@Kwamla
Even though you question the usage of power in defining racism you still end up using the same term to explain it. While maintaining a contradictory position that Black people can be racist too.
Fair enough. Perhaps my explanation is not the most clear cut. Maybe others can define this in a more lucid way than I can…?
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Kwamla says:- Even though you question the usage of power in defining racism you still end up using the same term to explain it. While maintaining a contradictory position that Black people can be racist too.
Demerera says:- Fair enough. Perhaps my explanation is not the most clear cut. Maybe others can define this in a more lucid way than I can…?
That is assuming someone actually understands the point that I was trying to make, albeit unclearly and actually agrees with me lol 🙂
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What are you talking about Sharina? You just make up assumptions and then treat them like facts. The thing is, I’m not saying that all blacks are racist. But there are blacks that can be. I haven’t “bashed blacks” at all. You’re saying that the article is using that when they say something racist, and they say that as an excuse. I haven’t said anything racist. I said more then 5 times why I though this page was promoting hatred. You’re painting a whole race with the same brush because there have been people in your life who have made you feel oppressed by their racism. That has nothing to do with that race as a whole. And I already gave you that article about how whites feel just as oppressed (Or even more) then black people.
http://lmgtfy.com/?q=racist+blacks
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@Demerera & Kwamla
I will give my opinion as a “white person” on “power defining racism” and “that Black people can be racist too”…
It is my opinion that power is linked to racism. I feel that racism can have many different aspects to it but is given a summary in the definition by different dictionaries….but to individuals that have suffered from racism…Individuals’ definitions will add specifics based off of life experience. So in my opinion it is not contradiction it is evolving with the times and circumstances. I feel that without power…racism would be less or non-existent…Power fuels racism and racism fuels power. Sure BP are capable of being racist against WP…but it is only because of white racism against BP…BP are capable of having power…but WP have dominated using racism and power to oppress BP and prevent them from having power. Sure…there are black businesses communities that are thriving and they have power within them…but that power is limited by the white man. BP know that within a black community…they will have equal opportunity and power because they will not be discriminated against base off of their race. But in the rest of the white dominated country…there is always that worry and concern that they will not be treated fairly…and rightfully so. I have worked with managers that would see names and assume they were black and not call them in because of the lazy stereotypes. I have worked in Human Resources and seen the discrimination. I was a soldier in the army and saw the racism that prevented good soldiers from getting awards and promotions. Sure there were EO rules and even a person in charge of complaints and following up on them…but at times it was a racist white person that handled the complaints and disregarded them saying they were whining and pulling the race card and they would always claim that racism didn’t apply in those situations. It is my opinion that it is not power that is the problem…it is the people that use the power they have in inconceivable ways. The main difference between BP and WP in terms of power and racism…is that white people are consumed with power and racism out of greed and superiority and keeping competition at bay..and BP want change and to be treated as equals so that they can have the power to determine their own existence and future. I hope this makes sense. Let me know if you need me to explain anything.
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@ Kevin
I don’t make assumptions. What I did and have done since you came in was allow you to provide the proof. I never said you bashed blacks, so what are you talking about. I am going to conclude that you are not comprehending that I said. Michelle and I concluded that whites come in here with that purpose and are surprised that chat is not what they thought. Not once in that can anyone conclude that you bash blacks. Here again you are digging your own hole and as I said before “A hit dog will holler.”
“You’re painting a whole race with the same brush because there have been people in your life who have made you feel oppressed by their racism.”—I actually have not experienced racism. Just goes to show how little you have read my post or understood what I was saying. I said that more than once to lol and now I am saying it more than once to you. It is not my experience of it that I have learned from it is others experience so check my comments again. I live in a very fair neighborhood and again if you actually had read my comments you would know that.
“And I already gave you that article about how whites feel just as oppressed (Or even more) then black people. “—And I have already told you what I think of that article so once again read what I said.
Also you never once said how you believe the site promotes racism or hatred and several commenter have come in to comment on your statement of that. If you had stated it then others would have noticed as well, so it is not just me.
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@ Kevin
As of last night we only managed to conclude that you understand what the article is about, but when I questioned you about how it promotes racism and hatred you did not respond. As I notice you failed to respond to a lot of questions I have proposed to you. Granted you answered a good bit, but not the ones that count.
We spent more time walking around in irrelevance than actually getting to the point which is how the site promotes racism and hatred. You spent all night trying to prove 1-21 was in the past after I had already told you many of them do not happen today in our first encounter.
Since you changed your statement to “blacks can be just as racist” how can they be then? Oh because a survey shows whites are offended by some comments made by blacks. Then the question is what can possibly be said by a black to offend a white person? The article did not even point to why whites feel oppressed. just a survey says they are and again I have seen racist online that seem to be oppressed by things they consider to be true but are not
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@ Kevin
You need to read your own comments as well because I promise you and I did read back through; not one of them answers the question of how the site promotes racism and hatred. I even asked you several times on several of my post to explain that and it has not been.
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@Michelle
It is my opinion that it is not power that is the problem…it is the people that use the power they have in inconceivable ways.
Thank you for putting your opinion forward. First off use or ‘misuse’ of power – you are correct in emphasising that it is the person behind the power that is the problem.
The main difference between BP and WP in terms of power and racism…is that white people are consumed with power and racism out of greed and superiority and keeping competition at bay..and BP want change and to be treated as equals so that they can have the power to determine their own existence and future. I hope this makes sense. Let me know if you need me to explain anything
No – I understand but, I do think there is the danger here of people assuming you are generalisations too much so, some white people are consumed with power and racism out of greed and superiority and keeping competition at bay..and some BP want change and to be treated as equals so that they can have the power to determine their own existence and future…hope thats ok 🙂
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@Michelle
To further clarify this point
and some BP want change and to be treated as equals so that they can have the power to determine their own existence and future…
Some BP don’t feel disempowered so they dont feel the need necessarily to challenge or change anything – they already feel in control of their own destinys
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@Demerera
Thank you for adding “some”. I agree it is not all…you are right there have been people that come on here and think the articles and comments are pointing at “all” but I understand that it is not. I know from personal experience that not all black people feel disempowered…but I have met many that do feel that they are. I also base my opinion off of civil rights movements from the past as well. That is why this topic is so difficult for everyone to agree on…personal experiences and inner struggles reflect their opinions and emotions about it. There are areas that are not riddled with racism…so a person from that area will often view racism as a non issue…but someone in an area that is faced with it everyday and has struggled…will have a quite different view and opinion. I always appreciate and welcome your input 🙂
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@ Kevin
Just clicked on the link you provided and you are missing the point completely so I will break it down for you.
A. You co-signed with lol on the belief that the site was promoting racism and hatred. I asked you how. This you have not proved. You keep showing links to racist blacks or rather links and blogs that show one instance of black racism and opinions that people have on how blacks are just as racist. To be honest my aunt is prejudice against whites, so there I have seen it too. The difference is that even though she holds some prejudice she does not see herself as superior in anyway and does not treat whites as some sort of inferior being. Also if you check Michelle’s comments even she has said from her experiences she sees more racism in whites than in blacks. FYI Michelle is not black.
B. You specifically narrowed your search to black racism, but have yet to check out white racist sites as I have advised you to. In those you will quickly see how what racism you see from blacks and what racism you see from whites varies on such a large scale degree it is almost ridiculous.
C. “The thing is, I’m not saying that all blacks are racist. But there are blacks that can be.”—Isn’t the article not saying that. I asked you countless times to read it and understand it for yourself to avoid the situation you are in. You are repeating things the article already stated as if you have discovered the flaw in the blog (it has flaws not the one you keep believing though) yet the only thing you have done is managed to repeat what the poster said in the first place.
You came in the room with the same outlook and air of superiority and thus you missed the point. Had you actually heeded my advice instead of trying to point the fingers with links to prove an irrelevant point then you would have seen that. It is that attitude that some would call racist and it is that attitude that brings about statements such as “blacks are just as racist” or the most common one “Hispanics are just as racist.” It is what I call throw the blame on the other technique or pass the buck. They are too so I don’t have to take responsibility for my behavior. This is why the post also mentioned it as a defense mechanism. One that you are actually using and providing links for it. Your own posts prove that and I did not have to put words in your mouth.
Thank you for answering a few of my questions regarding blacks in media, but again you have not answered addressed the main issue of how the site is promoting racism and hatred.
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@ Demerera
I agree with that, but those blacks in the situation not to feel disempowered also have to remember from others experience that it could always be them. I personally think about that even though I have not ever experienced any type of racism. Reading others experience and seeing whites racist online remind me of that.
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Ugh. Did you read the start of it? I wrote all of the times that I told you why this page is racist. I’ll right it again for you…
“Everything you are using an example of what bad people do, not just caucasian. Do you think you are the only race that is discriminated against? This whole article you are painting one race with the same paint brush. I honestly know no one who has ever done any of those things.”
“and if it was just about whites who are racist, then it wasn’t necessary to put “whites” instead of “Other people say blacks are just as racist.”
“I mean that there was no need to say “white people” if they meant white people who are racist. They could have just said racist people in general.”
“Yeah I do. But why target white people in general? That’s why it seems like a white hating site.”
“That’s my point! It happened in the past! How does what happened in the past classify us now?”
“You’re painting a whole race with the same brush because there have been people in your life who have made you feel oppressed by their racism. That has nothing to do with that race as a whole.”
“I’ve said the same thing every time someones asked. You’re painting a whole race with the same brush (Which I’ve already said). When people are talking about how black people are just as racist we’re not talking about your great-great grandparents. We’re talking about now.”
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@Michelle
That is why this topic is so difficult for everyone to agree on…personal experiences and inner struggles reflect their opinions and emotions about it
Yes. When we bring personal opinions etc to the fore, it can evoke strong responses. Also, we are all individuals and our journeys through life have assisted in shaping and moulding who we are and to that extent, the way we look at and deal with all we encounter…..
@Sharina
I agree with that, but those blacks in the situation not to feel disempowered also have to remember from others experience that it could always be them
Yes I agree but, on balance, there are still those who are mindful of the situation and plights of others and will try to help in what way they can. The original comment I made was in danger of sounding like once BP are successful, they turn their back on others. This was not my intention.
Personally, I think we owe it to ourselves and bygone ancestors/individuals to try to achieve/fulfill/exceed our potential to show all that they have to endure, hasnt been for nothing. I’m sure we are all striving in our own unique ways 🙂
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A. How is that any different from your aunt? If your racist you consider your self better then them. You have no idea what racists white people are thinking when they are being racist. And what does Michelle’s experiences matter? How do you know that I have never seen a racist white person? You have no real proof that she’s white or if she has really seen more racism in white people, it doesn’t matter what her race is.
B. We weren’t comparing the two. You said that whites weren’t oppressed. I showed you that there are quite a few white people that are oppressed now.
C. Yeah, they are saying that blacks can be racist, but not AS racist, because black people’s ancestors haven’t done anything like those examples. You keep bring this up. I’ve read it. I understand it. You don’t need to keep pretending that I’m ignorant and have no idea what I’m talking about.
I’m not going to go into that “Superiority” thing. You have no idea what you’re talking about. You’ve even said that “As of last night we only managed to conclude that you understand what the article is about” So maybe you should decide if you’re going to stick with what you already said or keep trying to make me sound racist and ignorant.
And I’ve already told you 5 times why this article is racist. I posted five different reasons, then I posted then together twice so you didn’t have to skim through to find what I’ve been saying all along. You point something out, then I show you how it’s unimportant or affects everyone. Than you just say that I haven’t answered your main question and that I’m just pretty much avoiding the question.
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@ Kevin
““Everything you are using an example of what bad people do, not just caucasian. Do you think you are the only race that is discriminated against? This whole article you are painting one race with the same paint brush. I honestly know no one who has ever done any of those things.”—You do realize I have read this statement and I have already commented on that right? Again go back and read what I said and again see why I continued to ask you this question.
I also stated to you that people of color have from your examples only used 1-3, and that you can not account for 4-21 in regards to something a person of color has done. 4-21 are crimes that whites have committed on a large scale have they not? I asked you to provide where they were committed by others and you have only provided 1-3. I then again presented the question. That is why I keep presenting the question because I am debunking the basis you are standing on and you are throwing everything under the bus the actually truly answer this question
If you read my responses to you you will know I answered every single quote you posted. With an explanation at that. This is why I keep telling you to read it to avoid me or even you repeating yourself.
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@ Demerera
That is true. 🙂
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@Sharina
I’m glad you understood what I tried to write, which towards the end, degenerated into gobbledegook. I will try again and then sign off. I can’t trust myself to type in a coherent way any more tonight…
Personally, I think we owe it to ourselves and bygone ancestors/individuals to try to achieve/fulfill/exceed our potential. To show that all that they had to endure, wasnt in vain. I’m sure we are all striving in our own unique ways
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@ Kevin
A. You actually are the one that keeps providing links that show black racism. Did you forget that already? I simply brought up my aunt as the fact that I have seen it personally, so as to not have you confused with the idea that I only see racist whites. Also there is a big difference because her dislike is based solely on the fact that she believe whites are hateful and do not treat blacks fair. Not the same as feeling superior so yes a major difference. Also please point to me at what point I said you never have seen racist whites? Ask Michelle what she has seen or better yet read her darn posts for goodness sake.
B. I am going to ask you where I said whites were not oppressed. This is you putting words in my mouth a second time around. Same as I never said whites were not slaves. What I specifically remember saying to you was that 1-21 is an indication of what blacks have done and do today. Also noted not all is done today and you decided that that article was relevant to show blacks as racist and that whites feel oppressed today as well. Your 1-21 proof of blacks are just as racist in short.
C. Kevin again I am not pretending you are ignorant and do not know what you are talking about as I have given you kudos on different occasions. What I have asked you to do though was read. That is all because some things you have proven to twist and bring about a misunderstanding of. I have also pointed some things out to you as well as you have pointed out things to me so why is it when I point it out to you I am also of a sudden claiming you to be ignorant?
““As of last night we only managed to conclude that you understand what the article is about”—That statement was referring to you not me.
“You point something out, then I show you how it’s unimportant or affects everyone..”—Then I go back and point something out to you and you do not respond. You derail by responding to things that have nothing to do with the original comment in the first place. Just as you were quick to put up your quotes you were also quick to act like I never responded to you regarding those quotes I will show you my response and you will find that it did not go the way you have concluded.
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A. I don’t know what you’re talking about with the first two sentences.
You have no idea why people are racist. Maybe the white racist was raped by a black person, maybe she thinks that blacks are bad people, just like your aunt. Some people recent black people for always bringing up the race thing. That doesn’t mean that she would have the excuse to be racist. With the next thing, you obviously didn’t read it properly. You said that Michelle has seen more racist whites then blacks. I said that you have no idea if she’s telling the truth, and that I could say that I have never seen a racist white person, that doesn’t mean it’s true.
B. How many times have you put words in my mouth? I’m sure it’s a lot more then 2. And here is the oppression thing: “Since you changed your statement to “blacks can be just as racist” how can they be then? Oh because a survey shows whites are offended by some comments made by blacks. Then the question is what can possibly be said by a black to offend a white person? The article did not even point to why whites feel oppressed. just a survey says they are and again I have seen racist online that seem to be oppressed by things they consider to be true but are not.” You didn’t say that they weren’t, you said that you couldn’t see how they could be. YOu keep bring up that I should read it, and that I don’t understand it. AGAIN, I’ve read it. I understand it. You haven’t provided any examples, besides that I don’t understand it, or I haven’t read it properly.
““As of last night we only managed to conclude that you understand what the article is about”—That statement was referring to you not me.
Yeah obviously. That was my point. You keep saying that I don’t understand it, but you’ve already said that I do.
Okay, you keep saying that I’m not responding. How about you post them all at once and I’ll answer what I think, Okay?
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@ Kevin
“You’re painting a whole race with the same brush because there have been people in your life who have made you feel oppressed by their racism. That has nothing to do with that race as a whole.”
My response: Mon 11 Jun 2012 at 19:05:44 Sharina I actually have not experienced racism. (Also a personal response to me does not prove your point at hand. So that one is a fail.)
“That’s my point! It happened in the past! How does what happened in the past classify us now?”
My response: on Mon 11 Jun 2012 at 05:28:43 Sharina While I agree that much of this does not happen today it is something that build on to the belief that the treatment of blacks is acceptable. (It was already acknowledged much of this was past)
“and if it was just about whites who are racist, then it wasn’t necessary to put “whites” instead of “Other people say blacks are just as racist.”
“I mean that there was no need to say “white people” if they meant white people who are racist. They could have just said racist people in general.”
“Yeah I do. But why target white people in general? That’s why it seems like a white hating site.”
My response: on Mon 11 Jun 2012 at 06:04:25 Sharina They are not talking about racist people in general. The article is about racist whites. You do realize there is a difference between white people and racist whites?
If you read the blog you will have an answer to all you questions and I would not be repeating my self. Again can blacks or any person of color for that matter accomplish any of those things that whites have in 1-21. Not just now but in history itself? The answer is no, so other races are irrelevant because they have not. That is why the focus is on whites. DUH. The issues being whites have the power to do this and if you would read you would know that. The issue is not so much whether it is done today or not.
Your response: #7 That happens to everyone. Women are pressured to be thin everywhere, starting at a young age. It’s not just black’s problem with self image. I have an African American friend (X-Friend) who used to comment on how she could see the veins in my arm because I was so pale, and she used to make fun of me.
My ending response : Kudos on the black playmates was not aware there was that many.
Your response: #13 There is one thing about how chinese men are supposed to have small ones. Every race has had that stereotype.
My response: #13 “Had strange homosexual hang-ups about white men’s penises.”–This is not about stereotypes but rather about an obsession. I have seen less of this but it still applies to the ones I have seen mention this. Last racist I ran across said “black mens penis are not that big” another said “atleast that is big because there brains are not.”
Your response: #15 Same with East Indians, Mexicans, and many other races.
My response: #15 “Caused high white unemployment rates through racist hiring practices – or even affirmative action.”—Let a racist tell it only blacks benefit from affirmative action. I see plenty of east Indians with jobs, usually technical so exactly how does #15 apply to them. Mexicans will take whatever jobs they can find for there family usually construction, so miss again. Asian are almost always hired for jobs and it is rare that they are not so again unless any of these people are darn near black in skin color then they are given jobs almost at a drop of a dime. If a Mexican and a black were going for the same job, then who would be hired first? I know a few companies that are facing charges for hiring illegals.
Your response: #15 Honestly, are you a troll?
My response: No, I am not a troll.I am completely on topic with the subject matter at hand and it should not offend anyone anymore than other things that have been said here. Some may consider you a troll to be honest.
Your response: And I wasn’t calling you a troll because I thought you were off topic, it was because of how ridiculous that whole statement was.
My response: How is it ridiculous? It is not a lie. It is actually true. A business owner and his wife are facing charges for hiring illegals Mexicans to work for them and if you call dell who are you likely going to get…a black man or an east Indian?
In the end I stated…” You claim the blog itself is but you have yet to point out what in the blog says that. You only prove 1-3 as something possible blacks have done, but your article only says Muslims that lived in Africa and I hate to say this but other races lived in Africa and many races are Muslims (not just blacks). As far as 4-21 you can not say a person of color has done and you have not provided proof of it, so with that list alone how is it that “blacks are just as racist?”
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@ Kevin
You are putting words in my mouth again. When did I say I knew why people are racist? My post never once said that and I also never said I excused my aunts racism. I don’t have proof of whether Michelle is or not, but she has often shared her experiences as a white female as has other bloggers shared theirs as white individuals.
“How many times have you put words in my mouth? I’m sure it’s a lot more then” Kevin name one time I put words in your mouth? Heck name all of them if you feel so inclined.
“Oh because a survey shows whites are offended by some comments made by blacks.”–I take all surveys with a grain of salt and no offense but it does not matter what it says.
“The article did not even point to why whites feel oppressed.”–Again a grain of salt, but like I first said thank you for the information.
“You didn’t say that they weren’t, you said that you couldn’t see how they could be.”—Who are you referring to in this statement blacks or whites.
“You haven’t provided any examples,”—What are you looking for examples of? You presented the debate of this site promotes racism and hatred as well as “blacks are just as racist.” I never presented either of those, so why is it my job to prove your point or for that matter to prove otherwise really. You made the claim not me.
#7 proof http://www.cartoonbrew.com/anime/the-whitewashing-of-avatar-the-last-airbender.html
Also # 7 proof http://www.wellesleynewsonline.com/arts/whitewashing-the-hunger-games-1.2841780#.T9Z82LXNmJ4
#13 http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0268/is_n8_v32/ai_16109614/
#15 proof http://ac360.blogs.cnn.com/2008/08/09/study-black-man-and-white-felon-same-chances-for-hire/
Proof: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mwcEW-vIvvo
(black guy was fired over it)
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“Yeah obviously. That was my point. You keep saying that I don’t understand it, but you’ve already said that I do. “–After my comment at what point do you believe I presented to you again about you not understanding the article. After that it was a matter of you not understanding me. Please feel free to show me a quote after I acknowledge your understanding that states you do not understand the blog?
“Okay, you keep saying that I’m not responding. How about you post them all at once and I’ll answer what I think, Okay?”—Fair and done.
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@ Kevin
I am going to share something with you to be fair. I grew up in an area, and still live here, where it is fairly equal. I have family members that experienced some racist situation that were darn near life or death, but I have not experienced anything myself.
Before coming to this blog I thought the same as many commenters do. Racism does not exist today and it is not on that big of a scale. I told myself that all the way up until I decided to come online to more the death of a young black teen an speak out on it. As a result I could not believe the amount of racist and hate filled comments I had the pleasure of reading. Even then I continued to tell myself that it was just a group of people not the majority and again I was confronted with the possibility that it was not the minority that felt this way but a large majority of racist whites.
I came to this site and observed. If I had said anything in the beginning I could risk sounding insensitive or what some may call an uncle tom. Even after learning from others experience on this site I still don’t think all whites are racist and my area proves this so, but I should not be quick to believe it is not true for others. For me to downplay things they have gone through would show my ignorance and racist attitudes towards them. Just because I don’t experience it does not mean that they have not.
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Also comment in moderation due to my links
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@Kevin
You don’t have to believe that I am white and my accounts of racism from life experiences…but I am curious as to why you feel the need keep reiterating it to others on here. Because my experience does not match yours…it appears you are trying to discredit me. Because you don’t see all of the racism that I have seen…you are trying to say I am making it up. That tells me that you are either in denial or you are racist and are trying to cover up racism. But of course…those are my opinions from my experience with you.
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@ Kevin
If you are going to use racial slurs your comments will be deleted.
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Did I miss something?
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@brothawolf
lol came on defending duckduck saying this was a racist site, then Kevin came on defending lol saying this was a racist site and apparently there is no proof that I am white and what I say is true. I guess since my views don’t coincide with Kevin’s…I can’t be trusted. He keeps acting like he doesn’t understand Sharina…it looks like he is playing games. I am beginning to think those three are friends or the same person…it is kind of funny how fast they all came on here at once. But I could be wrong…it just looks a little suspicious to me.
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I haven’t replied to anyone else yet, but what are you even talking about Abagond?
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@Michelle
I’m not bashing your comments because they aren’t my own, its because he’s saying “Also if you check Michelle’s comments even she has said from her experiences she sees more racism in whites than in blacks. FYI Michelle is not black”. I’m not saying anything about you, I’m saying that just because you have certain experiences doesn’t really mean anything. I’m sure there are some other people who would agree with me.
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@Sharina
I wasn’t referring to you, to the person who wrote the article.
I don’t think any person thinks that this type of thing is okay. The reason that people post things on the internet is so they can say what ever they want, without the concequesces. Do you really believe that people could get away with doing something racist in public?
I know that it is about racist whites. But the thing is, why? Would it be okay for an Asian man to come up to you and call you racist slurs? Probably not. So why to you need to specify white people? Do you think that whites as a whole are the only ones that can do anything? What about through out world war 2? The people who supported that WERE white, but mainly germans (And Japanese too). I realize that German people are white, but that just shows how a small amount of people can do a lot of damage.
With the penis thing… Again, that happens with a lot of races. You saying “Had strange homosexual hang-ups” doesn’t mean anything. There is a stereotype that black men’s penis are large. I could say that the one about Asian men’s is a “strange homosexual hang-up” too.
With the jobs thing:
That whole statement is pretty racist. Like, come on. “I’ve seen a lot of Mexicans working for construction”? Is there an Abagond site for mexicans? If so, you should read it.
A. “To be honest my aunt is prejudice against whites, so there I have seen it too. The difference is that even though she holds some prejudice she does not see herself as superior in anyway and does not treat whites as some sort of inferior being.” You’re saying that your aunt isn’t really the bad racist, because she doesn’t see herself as better then whites.
Here is where you claim that I’m doing things, when in reality you have no idea:
“Remember when we said they read the “blacks are just as racist” and come in with the purpose of bashing blacks?? He just proved it.”
“Kevin managed to prove one point that Michelle and I had. Which is he came in here with the purpose of bashing blacks and was surprised to find what the blog was actually about. I was suspect when he co-signed with lol and went through several posts without having any clue what he had co-signed to. I also find it funny he read lol comments but maintained he did not read the other comments.”
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@ Demerera
Have a look at what I wrote earlier about racism and “power” and see if this helps with your understanding….
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@Kevin
may I ask where you get your experiences from? Have you spent most of your life watching people and questioning their racism? Has it been something that has been heavily on your mind since you were 6yrs old? Have you traveled to numerous states, lived in multiple states, and live in other countries…all while being tuned in to racism. You do not have to think my opinions or experience matters…but I hate to brake it to you…there are over 1000 hate groups in the United States alone and the majority of them are white supremacy, kkk, neo-nazi, and white purists.
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@Kwamla
We need to use our own definitions of racism. Ones that express the true dynamics of its effects on ourselves (Black people & POC) and others (white people) otherwise we fall foul of these self serving “ill-logical” traps.
I hear you Kwamla but, perhaps you will have to be patient and wait awhile until I too can think of a more definitive form of terminology to avoid what you call the ‘self serving, illogical traps’. 🙂
Meanwhile do keep me posted on your working definition – lets hope with it, comes enlightenment on such matters.
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@ Kevin
If you want to say something to Abagond then address it with him and not with me because that is what brought about a lot of confusion not only for me but
for yourself as well, thus the constant walking around in circles.
Do you see how irrational that is? You get that German’s are white but you are trying to look at it as because they are a small group they did a lot of damage to prove your point, but it also proves the point that I made to you a long time ago. As a white group they did the damage. Also you added a point to the posters blog as well.
Secondly you are not even remotely getting the penis thing and had you clicked on the link http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0268/is_n8_v32/ai_16109614/. You would actually have a clue of that since you keep wanting me to provide proof. This article notes that white men fear black men sleeping with white women. It is not about a fear of them sleeping with asian men. IT centers around a black mans big penis ruining a white woman. This would be the third time that I told you it is it not about a stereotype and this would be where I say you do not have a clue what #13 is even talking about.
I am married to a Mexican you idiot. I was actually referring to those in my area which mainly do have construction jobs and as I also stated there is a white couple who had a construction company that is under investigation for hiring illegals. Would you like that link to?
“Here is where you claim that I’m doing things, when in reality you have no idea:”–Those comments were referring to Michelle about an inside joke that we have going in here and had you read ahead you would know that.
““Remember when we said they read the “blacks are just as racist” and come in with the purpose of bashing blacks?? He just proved it.”—Why did you come to this site? Most individuals see the “blacks are just as racist” and waltz in here hoping to have a hold hand discussion about how to fix the black problem. ***Rolling eyes*** You never been to the blog before and did not bother to read anything other than lol’s comments and concluded the site was racist and managed to misread everything I said and has thus far continued to try and convince yourself that #13 is about stereotypes of black mans penis when it actually is not, so tell me again your goals dear sir because obviously it go misconstrued.
Also if you care to notice in both those statements I never once said you actually bash blacks (again with me telling you to read). What I specifically said was that was your purpose for coming in here, but when you realize it is not a white supremacy group spewing hate at blacks then you decided to comment on the bloggers writing. I went on to comment on how quick you co-signed with lol.
At the end of the day you made yourself fit into the role because you came in here with “let me lecture the blacks” attitude and did not make 5 seconds of an effort to see what the blog was about as originally you did not understand and after this last post I have reason to believe there are other parts that you still do not understand.
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@ Michelle
“lol came on defending duckduck saying this was a racist site, then Kevin came on defending lol saying this was a racist site and apparently there is no proof that I am white and what I say is true. I guess since my views don’t coincide with Kevin’s…I can’t be trusted. He keeps acting like he doesn’t understand Sharina…it looks like he is playing games. I am beginning to think those three are friends or the same person…it is kind of funny how fast they all came on here at once. But I could be wrong…it just looks a little suspicious to me.”—Glad I am not the only one to notice that. Although I am not certain he knows duck, I find it odd that half my statements he claims he does not understand or does not know what I am talking about. Which is making me wonder if he does not understand those simple statements, then what is the real chance that he understands what the blog is even saying.
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Honestly, I’m sick of trying to explain everything from my point of view. The bottom line is, the reason that I think it’s racist is because it’s talking about all whites instead of all racists. That’s why I think it’s racist, even though you’ve told me many times that that is what he/she was trying to do I don’t care, thats why I find it racist. You can twist it around and say that he got driven to that point, or that black people have a harder time with anything. I don’t care.
And I find it kind of funny how you think that calling me an idiot will get your point across quicker.
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@Michelle While I was growing up there was a lot of racist against whites. Maybe thats not your experience, but its mine. The reason that most people are racist is because they grew up with their parents hating a race. Thats why I dislike this site/page. Because it continues to put a wall between races. You can’t hold a whole race responsible for certain things. That’s the same as stereotyping.
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@ kevin
Not to intrude, but did whites not do 1-21 at some point throughout history?
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@ Kwamla
Not to but in on you and Demerera, but I found your definition of the word Racism quite interesting and your explanation was very well put.
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@Kevin
So only your experiences count? Because this blog and others like it mostly come from experience or historical fact, not from some attempt to “put up walls between races”. I’m not sure you realize how hypocritical what you just said really is.
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@ Sharina
Thank you for your comments. Feel free to share any view you may have too.
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@ Kevin
You would have to do less explaining had you not made the claim. You made it remember. I simply pointed to the flaw in that. As Kwamla pointed to the flaw in how the term racism is used and others have continued to point to flaws in other logic in this chat.
Abagond was kind enough to tell you what the blog was actually about in his own words as he wrote the blog. This was his response to you:
abagond
@ Kevin
This post is about those who say “Blacks are just as racist!” – meaning just as racist as whites. So I listed 21 ways in which whites have been or still are more racist than blacks. It compares white racism and black racism only. It is not about ALL whites. It has nothing to do with Asians or Mexicans. I do not see how comparing racisms is hateful or spreads racism.
“And I find it kind of funny how you think that calling me an idiot will get your point across quicker.”—I didn’t call you an idiot to get any point across. I had already made a response to that point and the idiot was a result of you repeating it when the point had already been made.
At the end of the day I already knew you did not care which is why I responded to you the same as I did lol. Also as a side note there are others like Duck and a few others that feel the same, but the difference is they are able to put up an argument to there claims and actually have taken the time to read it before responding. They can take in the criticism and dish it back out, so it has nothing to do with your point of view but rather your ability to debate it.
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@ Kevin
I never said anyone was driven to any point as I have pointed out several times I do not excuse racism no matter what the color. I believe it was actually you who was trying to say all 1-21 was in the past and does not happen today and I agreed that while not all of it happens today there are things in 1-21 that does. I also provided links that show that it does as well per your request for me to provide proof.
Also I don’t have to twist anything around because the proof is in the post.
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Again Abagond already explained to you what the post was about, so it was not really a need for me to respond at all at that point. You just ignored what he told you it was about and went on your own rant.
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@Kevin
you obviously still don’t get it…and it seems you have no intentions of getting it. It is not categorizing a whole race…it is categorizing white racists! It is not based off of experiences from one town…it is based off of an entire nation that has a large history of racism that has continued to occur in the present. If it does not apply to you then what is the problem? Are these issues supposed to remain silent forever so racist white people don’t have to feel uncomfortable or face their racism? Are black people supposed to tip toe around racist white people to not put them in an awkward position of facing their ignorance? How exactly is anyone going to learn or change if they don’t face it head on and learn about themselves and others? I think that is called oppression.
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Ohhhhhhhh, I see what’s going on.
Kevin, you said “@Michelle While I was growing up there was a lot of racist against whites. Maybe thats not your experience, but its mine. The reason that most people are racist is because they grew up with their parents hating a race. Thats why I dislike this site/page. Because it continues to put a wall between races. You can’t hold a whole race responsible for certain things. That’s the same as stereotyping.”
Here’s the thing though, your experience may be important to you because you lived them, but we didn’t. We have our own experiences dealing with whites who’ve offended us in some way, shape or form, individually or systematically. The systematic version is much more damaging because it affects not one, not two, but several to many to most black people in this land.
Also, the continuation to “put a call between races” has been and always mostly been on the part of the white racist power structure to keep one race (and gender in most cases) on top and other races beneath them.
This site, as well as other like-minded sites, expose that wall. It helps to serve the purpose of revealing what it is that keeps people divided, and like or not, most of that effort came from and comes from whites.
Finally, if you’re against stereotyping, why not tell that to whites who seem prone to judge a whole race based on the actions of a few? Why not talk to certain white people who holds an entire race accountable for their actions, but can not or will not do the same for themselves?
You see, we’ve had to deal with this all the time. One criminal who happens to be black is more than enough for some whites, and PoC, to make generalizations on the entire race. In other words that one criminal represents an entire group.
If you doubt what we say is true or relevant, that is a hang-up YOU must face.
The reality is that racism by blacks against whites is extremely minor compared to white racism against blacks. The media, the justice system, the prison industrial complex, businesses and corporations as far as hiring practices and personnel treatment, the school system, the healthcare system, politics, etc. all play enormous parts in some way or another against the black community.
This site was made for PoC who have little to no outlet to speak their minds without filters or censorship. It was made to talk about what it’s like living in a white racist society. It was not designed for whites who seem to want to make everything about them and make those things jolly good. If you expect this site to be one of those, then you are out of luck, my friend.
We can’t go on avoid this issue. It must be confronted.
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I honestly cant believe, that i read this… I am astonished to hear of your generalizations of whites as a whole and feel that you are justifying your own racism in this blog through historical information. Its sad what has been done in this country and the rest of the World to blacks, but some events like you have stated in your blog have been committed by every race imaginable…Even Blacks have committed some of the crimes stated in your post to their own kind in Africa for hundreds of years before European colonization and slave trading happened…. such as SLAVERY, GENOCIDE, and TERRORISM. You are accomplishing nothing less than perpetuating racism with posting stuff like this… I am Native American and have the same history if not worse than Blacks do in America, but we don’t use history as an excuse for racism, prejudice or w.e your calling it. In my opinion people who agree with this nonsense are nothing more than simple minded and mistaken. History is in the past for a reason, move on and take advantage of the opportunities provided, paid for in blood and tears by your ancestors. Hard work, and effort are the key to success, not squandering over your past generations of people that may or may not have been affected by these tragic events in American/ Global history. Why not create something constructive and intelligent in this blog instead of this nonsense. The point of History should be to learn from its mistakes and not use it as a weapon and scapegoat, to continue hatred and racism.The POINT IS TO END ALL INEQUALITY. From reading this post i can positively say that i feel stupid and ashamed for reading it. And hope that one day you can perhaps learn to forgive and forget…. events that have not directly affected yourself. I cant stand hearing any racist comments or saying that one group of people is more racist than the next, because there is no justification for any of it. Good day.
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@Sharina. We’ve already discussed this before. What my great-great-great grandparents COULD have done doesn’t mean anything about me. So why would it classify that whaler race. And I know that it’s only about racist whites, so don’t bother bringing that up.
@tehnoun No, I’m saying that her experienced don’t mean any more then mine do.
@Sharina
We already discussed that too. I said that most of the ones that aren’t in the past are over exaggerated or uncommon.
@Michelle
I KNOW. It is ONLY about white racists! This post is about those who say “Blacks are just as racist!” – meaning just as racist as whites. So he listed 21 ways in which whites have been or still are more racist than blacks. It compares white racism and black racism only. Thanks for the update Michelle… I had NO idea before you came along and explained it to me… And what do you think this website is actually doing to stop racist? Any person who comes on here who is strongly racist is just going to start bashing blacks. I typed in Abagond and there was like 3 different websites about how stupid it is.
If you guys are making a difference, it is extremely small. And I find it more cowardly that you complain about it on the internet where you can remain anonymous then in real life. That is what I was agreeing with LOL about. You aren’t making a difference in racism because you yourselves are not really taking a stand.
I have met many a black person who has pulled played the race card at the drop of a hat. That probably sounds racist, but its true.
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Ugh, finally someone who agrees with me ^_^
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@ JSPOT
I am going to make this very simply so you will not be made a fool of like Kevin happily made of himself.
The blog is about a comparison of white racist vs black racist. Not all whites and not all blacks.
Then again you already managed to make a fool of yourself.. I guess I was too late.
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I don’t know if this is off topic or not. But I was always taught that Egyptians during the time of Moses were alot more black then they are today…..and that the people of Moses taken into slavery were at least more white or “Middle Eastern.”…….
So my point is that these “lighter” Jews were put into slavery by the Pharaoh for a period of 400 years, which has to be put into perspective although it mirrors the time of African slavery in the Americas, Moses supposedly lived for 1000 years, according to the Bible.
So if in fact Blacks were the original rulers of Civilization, they are also the original perpetrators of slavery….Of all peoples. In fact that is probably why Egyptian peoples are lighter and all people of the region lighter is because of conquered peoples being brought from all over the known world to work as slaves. All these peoples inter-married and you have the modern day Egyptian today. No one really knows for sure though.
My ultimate point is this …..I would never blame a modern day Black person because of the crimes of ancient Egyptians, but you guys will go back 1000 years to point your finger at a modern White person. Makes no sense to me.
Also just because I’m attending a Metallica concert soon I thought I would leave you with this informative video about the book of Exodus.
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@ Kevin
Here you are walking around in circle making yourself an idiot you do not have to be. I never said any of this applies to you particularly not one time. You spent so much time putting words in my mouth that you can not even depict between what I actually said and what you want to make me out to say. If you know it is only about racist whites then why are you going on the defense about people that do not apply to you.
Remember when I kept saying a hit dog will holler. That terms means Someone who responds defensively to a general statement, meaning they clearly took it personal. If you are not a racist why are you even remotely taking the blog or the statements about what you clearly have stated refer to racist whites?
As you remember I provided links to the ones not in the past, so you can see they happen and unless they happened to you how can you even sit and say it was over exaggerated. IT was not over exaggerated tot he people it happened to, but again only your experiences count right? I guess the black guy who lost his job because a white racist woman slapped him was so over exaggerated on the black guys part.
“I have met many a black person who has pulled played the race card at the drop of a hat. That probably sounds racist, but its true.”—No it does not sound racist, but you are being racist by trying to say only your experiences count for something and everyone elses means squat.
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@ Dave
You do know there are white people that would argue you down that Egyptians were not black?
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And yet another person that doesn’t get it and would rather make harsh accusations instead of really trying to communicate in a mature manor.
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@ Michelle
If I could think of one things I have seen in a lot of racist is start an argument and have no clue how to finish it.
I like how Jspot was quick to say these things never happened to anyone in here yet he like Kevin failed to realize that these things have actually happened to many in this very room. When that was pointed out to Kevin he quickly dismissed it just as he has dismissed your experiences.
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@ Shari’a, Yes I do know that . I have heard all the arguments, and also seen documentaries of Modern day Egyptians lightening old paintings, and taking all of the noses off of statues, just to prove that the ancient Egyptians were white. If I remember correctly Napoleon blew the nose off of the Sphinx with a cannon out of spite. I know there is archaeological evidence of European bones, but my contention is they were probably slaves or lower level commoner types.
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*Sharina
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@ Kevin
Your issue is you are constantly co-signing with people that make a dumb remark and run out with no intentions of returning. You fail to even carefully read to what you are actually co-signing to. When they run out and that little part they left is directed towards you, then you are left trying to explain your way out of a box. Stop co-signing and stand on your own.
So you admit to finally getting that the blog is a comparison, but now you are trying to argue that it is still racist because we are not doing anything about it?
“If you guys are making a difference, it is extremely small. And I find it more cowardly that you complain about it on the internet where you can remain anonymous then in real life.”—Guess what dear whites do this too. Should I point you to the white racist blogs to show you the level of cowardly behavior in there bunch? Also just because someone comes on this blog to talk it out does not mean there is nothing being done about it in there day to day life. Small efforts but efforts none the less. This statement is what makes you very ignorant and making it seem more likely that you are a racist.
1. You are dismissing the experiences of many blacks in this room.
2. You have concluded that their experiences are not valid.
3. You have concluded that they are doing nothing.
Yet you still have the audacity to put in your experience as this is the way life is and everyone else is wrong. They are not wrong. They are just as valid. I even gave you not one but 4 links to prove where this happens in modern day and you ignored them.
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@ dave
I don’t disagree with you, but that is one debate I have seen and stayed out of simply because it felt like a no win situation in regards to the race of Egyptians. I also realize there were white slaves as well so I am not in the slightest saying there were not.
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@JSPOT
You mentioned..
“..And hope that one day you can perhaps learn to forgive and forget…. events that have not directly affected yourself.”
The problem with this line is that events from the past directly affect POCs in America to this day. POC having the same degree and experience and yet getting paid thousands of dollars less than their white counterparts..is discrimination that is rooted in past ignorance. The inequality in this country is very real and is present in the education system, employment, health care, etc. The foundation that made the inequality happen is rooted in the past with laws that made it possible for discriminatory practices still going on today.
@dave
You mentioned..
“…In fact that is probably why Egyptian peoples are lighter and all people of the region lighter is because of conquered peoples being brought from all over the known world to work as slaves.”
Egyptian people skin color can range from extremely dark to very light. It has nothing to do with foreign mixes. Egypt was always diverse.
“So if in fact Blacks were the original rulers of Civilization, they are also the original perpetrators of slavery….Of all peoples.”
I don’t understand this sentence please explain and I will comment on it but first I want to know what you meant.
———————————————————————————————————-
This thread is falling off the rails from miscommunication..that is unfortunate.
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@ Kevin
“Any person who comes on here who is strongly racist is just going to start bashing blacks.”—Now you are putting your foot in your mouth with this statement. If this site is indeed promoting hatred and racism then actually read what the comments are saying and point to racist comments that are calling for hatred against whites? I said this in the beginning when you first made this claim, so the real question is what are you still trying to prove?
Again you are the one you who took it this far and put yourself in this situation. You are claiming the site to be racist and yet there is nothing to support it. Out of all the comments only one was borderline and even he apologized for his behavior. Twisting things around so it is what you want it to be will not make it so. Co-signing with two idiots will not make your point any more true.
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@ Kevin
“Your issue is you are constantly co-signing with people that make a dumb remark and run out with no intentions of returning.”
What are you talking about? You’ve already said that about me,a and you said it about LOL, and they replied again also. So as you would say “Fail!” because we both returned and commented again.
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@ deedee7789
You know how it goes in here.
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@ Kevin
I think you failed because I comment on everyone in case you did not notice, so try again.
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@ Kevin
Are you having a hard time reading what I type? I was referring to LOL and Jspot not you. You were not even part of the equation of those that comment and do not return, so this is you failing… at reading no doubt.
Secondly lol commented like 4 times and when the individual was question on something, then they disappeared. Jspot is still a 1 time commenter.
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Are you having a hard time reading? At the top you said “@ Kevin” and you didn’t mention anyone else’s name.
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@ Kevin
Seriously. The comment was directed at you regarding You co-signing (agreeing with) lol and jspoit (two people who have made remarks and have failed to return). So no it was saying you actually made comments and failed to return it said you agree with two people who made comments and failed to return so again you do not understand what I am typing and this make it clear because before I just suspected.
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I keep seeing a common theme with some of these recent commenters. The theme is we can’t talk about the terrible things, past or present, institutional or individual, imagined or real, whites have done. Yet, it seems okay to talk about blacks in the same way. It’s like white people are incapable of doing anything wrong.
I hope I’m not imagining this.
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@ Brothawolf
I am going to be honest with you. Out of the three commenter I actually thought they may be the same people with different names or atleast knew each other. Reason being because none of them actually read the blog yet made similar statements.
I also notice that they are all trying to dismiss white crimes and each one talking the “shame on you blacks.” Kevin even went so far as to say we are exaggerating these crimes, yet failed to look at my links that showed these crimes that actually have happened today.
I am personally am not that hung up on history, but my issues come in when I see other people dealing with it today. I think that is what is failed to be realized with a lot of people including these three commenter. They have convinced themselves that it is not today and the fact of the matter is that it is today and young children are increasingly naive to it.
Many don’t want to believe it because it would require them to face reality that there is a large amount of racism in the world instead of that small amount they are taught to believe.
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@ Dave
You know I would never take you for a Metallica fan. not to derail or anything.
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Sharina,
I honestly wouldn’t be surprised if they are the same people, but it’s frightening to think they all seem to have the same mentality. A friend of mine would call them drones.
Yea. It seems to be the old habit with some of these commenters. I always say that they are so focused and obsessed with black crimes that they seem to nevermind white crimes, especially the violent crimes.
Case in point, some of these commenters would post links to articles or videos that illustrate black crime AND black-on-white crime. The latter is always to prove that crimes against whites by blacks are examples of racism and that they happen way more often as evidenced by the news than the reverse.
Yet, they ignore white crimes, white-on-non-white crimes, and especially white-on-white crimes. To them it doesn’t happen near as much as crimes committed by blacks which are always related to violence especially against white women. And white-collar crime is either not as significant as black violent crime or they would go the Jared Taylor route and say that most white-collar crimes are committed by blacks.
I have no words for this kind of mentality other than it is connected to the past which is something many like-minded commenters love to avoid as being a component to what’s happen today.
I always say that history plays a big part in how things are going today. With some of these commenters, the way they are thinking is similar to how most whites thought since day one. More or less, they differ depending on the individual of course, but the deep disdain and color-arousal continues from generation after generation.
As far as the argument that black racism is just as bad (or to some people, worse) than white racism. We have to deal with systematic, individual and intraracial racism which all spawned from white racism. Yet, racism against whites pales in comparison with racism against blacks on almost every level: histoical, political, economic, and even environmental. And even if there are blacks and other PoC who mistrusts or hold ill will against whites, it didn’t come out of the ether. It wasn’t spontaneously created out of thin air. Prejudice begets prejudice.
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@deedee7789
I’m not a historian, I have said that. It is not one of my strong suits. But in this day in age with info at an all time high it isn’t hard to have an opinion about historic events. All you need to do is look them up.
As far as the “ancients” are concerned…. unfortunately there was a library in Alexandria I believe that was destroyed that had that sort of knowledge. Although even if those books of vast knowledge were recovered, they probably were not as concerned about race back then, so it probably wouldn’t have helped to find out which types of humans were more barbaric anyway.
As I said MY ULTIMATE POINT is that the finger pointing that modern blacks do at modern whites about the evil history of Europe could fall in the “blacks can be as racist in some ways” category. I used the history of Egypt as an example of how I WOULD NOT point the finger in a similar situation. I realize most blacks are NOT habitual finger pointers, just that as some whites do it , so do some blacks.
I also know bringing up something up from 6000+ years ago is a stretch. But to bring up the non self sustaining ancient European cities, on another recent post by abagond, is just as much of a stretch. To point out why the writer feels that all whites are not of the natural world. That our only source of survival is as nomadic hordes. That is not true across the board. I’m sure you could find examples to make your case. but there are also ancient cities in Europe that have common people surviving off of the land and the sea, and have been doing so for thousands of years.
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this is the type of finger pointing using ancient peoples that I am talking about when Jeramiah Wright uses Jesus and the ancient romans which he calls “IItalians”
This guy is “just as racist” as David Duke in my opinion.
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@dave
You said..
“I’m sure you could find examples to make your case.”
Let me be clear. I am not commenting on the topic of this thread but rather on points in some comments that I disagree with or misunderstand. I am not backing or opposing the post by abagond so I am not trying to “make a case”.
I do not believe that anyone is not aware that black people can be racist. I can show a video of a black woman that said some sick things (like calling for the genocide of white people). I can also show a video of a white person doing the same thing but it will be pointless because it is just stating the obvious. People can be racist. The point you are trying to make, dave, is in very poor taste because you are trying to shift blame. From my understanding of the post, this is not about Europeans being “evil” and the modern European’s spreading a unique brand of evil. I don’t get how both of us can read the post differently.I see it more so of how white racism can differ from black racism as far as Black American history is concerned. But you can help make me see why you have a different interpretation of the post because I don’t notice the things you and other commenters have made an issue of.
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@ Sharina
There is no reason to compare racism… just end it. Stop perpetuating it by trying to prove who is worse or commits it more than another group.
@ deedee7789
The inequality you speak of has been severely diminished and is not as rampant as you may think. Blacks are provided equal, if not more opportunity than whites in America today. TAKE ADVANTAGE OF THEM. EX: Housing plans, employment opportunities such as SBA company grants for minorities… Grants/ Scholarships for Education the list is endless. How long will it take for Blacks to stop using History as an excuse for their current problems. JUST SURPASS the problems. Many blacks have done this, several who are family friends of mine. The point I have is many who complain these opportunities aren’t provided for blacks just aren’t looking hard enough nor determined enough to take advantage of them. Education is the KEY. Not everything can be given for free, the expectations of many blacks in poorer areas are that because they are black they should receive “things” for free is absurd. Many kids that i know who are black and i went to school with squandered their free education… provided by the government. The idea as a whole is to instill the thinking of people to work hard, take advantage of opportunity which is available to all, and look past their skin color to become successful.
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wow…it must be true what they say…”ignorance is bliss”. Try learning from real people what the real world is like. But it appears that you have no intentions of learning and you would rather keep believing that everything is peachy. So I am going to take a guess that this page is not for you. So you might want to find some other page that shares in your misguided perceptions of the real world.
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@Sharina
I like Metallica (the metal band)! I was a huge fan of theirs in the 80’s and 90’s. lol
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Im not ignorant, it does happen in our society and it is a sad fact. But it doesn’t happen to the extent to which it once was. Nothing is perfect…Todays generations are much more educated and see the errors of past generations and their ignorance. If you actually read into what i’m saying, its nothing but constructive. And i am not misguided… My family is apart of a minority.. Native American to be exact and have taken advantage of all the opportunities the government has provided to us. All of those opportunities we took advantage of are available to Blacks, and to be honest we were ineligible for certain opportunities because we weren’t Black.
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@Dave
I can’t comment on Egyptian slavery because I am not sure what the truth is. From my understanding from reading abagond’s articles…unless he specifically talks about other countries…he is referring to racism, oppression and slavery in the United States. So it is my opinion that for someone to use other countries as a reference in…unless it is talking about a US military base within those countries…is off topic and can be thought to derail.
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@ JSPOT
Do you even know why the comparison began in the first darn place? You should actually read before opening your mouth. Kevin came in with no clue what the blog was about so I told him and gave examples of what each that I felt happened today was and guess what he gave examples of the opposite, but I find it funny how you managed to not see that but was so quick to point out how I or everyone else did a comparison.
Secondly as you seem to fail to realize comparing one racist with another racist is not in anyway promoting racism or hatred as you also failed to read and realize that not one of these commenters harbor any hatred or racism towards the other race. Not one and had you cared to read before opening that mouth of yours you would realize that.
This is the issue with you guys that pop in and now apparently decide to pop back in is you have an idea of what you think the blog means, Don’t give two sh*ts about asking someone what it means, opens your mouth before actually reading, and makes a big arse of yourself because if you had read further you will realize that no one in the room hates anyone.
Based on your logic I should hate Michelle, B.R., Sam, Duck, and Dave, because I subscribe to this site and it promotes racism. After you decided to insult people now you want to come back in and explain when all you had to do was read in the first darn place. Save it unless you are apologizing.
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Michelle has it right – this post is only about American racism, in particular black racism as compared to white racism in that country.
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@ Sharina
I am simply stating that the comparison of which group or who is more racist accomplishes nothing. And i hope that you can agree with that. There is no need to be aggressive in your post, Nor was i insinuating that a certain individual was racist.
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@ JSPOT
I am going to treat you with the respect that you failed to treat people in here before you made a pre-judged rant. This does happen today and to a large scale that you have no idea about and apparently have wish to learn about. I understand because I was once at that point until the truth of it today actually hit me in the face.
With in a maybe 3 month time span 3 black teens were shot and all were unarmed, black female sent to jail for protecting herself, black transgender female sent to jail after being attack by homophobic white male, young black teen beaten on video by cop, black man ran over by white teens yelling racial slurs, black woman beat by white man in cracker barrel in front of her kids, black man shot in home by cops while unarmed, israli woman held as slave in united states, young black girls from west africa held as slaves in United states, ….Shall I go on and provide you with links so you can read the stories.
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@ JSPOT
Your original post called me and many others in this room a racist for the simple matter of subscribing to the blog or as you put it “simple minded and mistaken.” You began in the wrong way and now people are not giving you the benefit of the doubt.
Secondly believe it or not it accomplishes a lot more for people who need to vent. As I have stated on other posts, while I do not experience this, there are individuals in this room that do. This comparison is really to look at in regards to how can blacks be just as racist when more than half the things on the list they have not in turn done to racist whites. It goes back to defense mechanism that racist whites actually use today….I have heard blacks are just as racist and I have heard hispanic are just as racist…It really is for every one to discuss the term and find out what it means to them and if they believe it to be true or false etc.
This blog is not and does not take away there efforts to educate about racism in the real world. It strengthens those who have to deal with it because for a few in here racism has taken such a large tole on them in there real life it is actually nice to escape and let out their anger and frustration from white racism.
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@JSPOT
I am not saying you are ignorant as a whole. Just on this topic. I am fully aware of those “benefits” that you talk about, and so is everyone else on here..If you read my other posts on this and other articles… you will see why those benefits don’t have much meaning in a lot of places… I have seen so many bad things from white people against black people. And yes the wounds from slavery are still open…how can they not be. That is something I think that you cannot possibly understand…even though you are Native American. There are Indian Reservations all over the United States that were “given back by the government”. But something you fail to realize or remember…is that land was given to freed slaves and then taken back shortly after and given back to the white plantation owners. And that is just one example…I have given others that I have experienced working in Human Resources and in the Army…but if you are interested you can read those post on here and other articles. This is not a whine fest. This is real experiences from real people. We do not hide behind the screen…we do take action in our lives. This is just simply using the opportunity provided by networking to reach more people.
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correction toll
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@ Michelle
That is very well put.
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Pre judged rant by explaining that Blacks have the same opportunity if not more than others in America? I did not say it dose not exist, but it does not happen to the extent it did in the 50’s or anytime before that. And i did not mean to disrespect anyone by voicing an opinion and facts. Its sad to hear things like that happening, but you are only singling out events that happen to Blacks i am sure there are many events like this that happen in America on a daily basis… not only to Blacks. The point is to stop shifting blame and end all the inequality. Also what does your examples have to do with Economic policy, Education, Housing, Business Opportunity? The examples you have just stated seem like a Rant.
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@ michelle
“””And yes the wounds from slavery are still open…how can they not be. That is something I think that you cannot possibly understand…even though you are Native American”””
Stop comparing who had it worse its not a battle just something to overcome. if i were to battle who had it worse in America i would clearly say that Native Americans did…But what does it accomplish? Wounds can be closed if you stop picking at them.. let them scab over and heal…
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@ JSPOT
It was rant because you were going on and on without even truly knowing what the blog was about. You did not. You came back and now you know what it was actually comparing.
Black do not have more opportunities and if you refer to a link I provided it will actually show you that a white felon has a high chance of getting a job than a black person. I never said you said it did not exist. I remember providing you examples of it happening today. Not way back when.
You voiced an opinion hun. You never provided facts and I provided some for you of facts that happen today and if you talk with someone in this room you will get more facts of today. It is your opinion that things are the way they are and it does not happen like that today and it is a fact that it does so do not confuse your opinion with facts.
I did not single out things that happen to blacks only dear the Israeli woman was not what people would consider black, but I can provide other examples as I have pointed out to you. Also your opinion was this does not happen to blacks today, so it makes since for me to provide examples of where this is actually happening to blacks. If your opinion had been this is not happening to the Chinese or Muslims then I would provide those links as well.
I never blames a white person for anything. That is you failing to read what I said. Kinda like Kevin did. He actually started putting words in my mouth.
The blog was not about conomic policy, Education, Housing, Business Opportunity and if you wanted to know that you should have asked for it.
I am black I can’t even remotely get public assistance and housing. Never once said black do not get education, but it has been a common rant by white racist that blacks only get into college because of affirmative action not because they are smart or anything. Oh and that marvelous affirmative action people keep thinking blacks get…they don’t that law actually works more for white women and handicapped than blacks.
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@JSPOT
Ahhhhhh…now I understand…you don’t think black people have a right to defend themselves against racism and oppression because you think Native Americans had it worse. Thank you for finally clearing that up. 🙂
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@Sharina
Thank you 🙂
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For those interested (Abagond-maybe this can be a topic?)…Here is a site that supports all claims on white racists…
http://www.splcenter.org/get-informed/hate-map
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@ JSPOT
To be clear I have never experienced racism like my uncle has and many others in this blog has, so do not assume I have an axe to grind over white people because I choose to stand up for blacks or any other person of color who feel wronged.
I don’t like racist people period and I can promise you race of that individual does not matter to me.
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@ JSPOT
I also find it funny your bring up assistance programs as if because blacks are suppose to get this then it is ok for them to be treated that way in the examples I provided.
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@ Sharina
All of those factors i stated have to do with the problem of racism…. and im sorry Sharina but maybe you haven’t looked hard enough into the system… and i did not say anything about affirmative action i simple stated the opportunity is there and many blacks that i know personally have squandered that opportunity. But near where i live there are thousands of open, brand new homes, for minorities to take advantage of including blacks. THIS is America no matter what if you have the determination and not hide behind the fact you feel the color of your skin impedes your success, you will succeed.
@ michelle
Now that is just rude to say, where did i ever state that blacks shouldn’t defend themselves? I clearly said it accomplishes nothing to argue about who had a harder time here in America but i could voice reasons to why Native Americans could have had it worse… its all pinion based. And i simply said a constructive statement that wounds can heal.. You are taking my statement way out of context.
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@ Sharina
And do you ever think those events you stated are simply perpetrated by bad situations? or mistakes?? race may not have anything to do with it??
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@ JSPOT
While some may argue they do I would like to know what Economic policy, Education, Housing, and Business Opportunity have to do with racism. while there are blacks that do squander opportunities many do not. Check out these links:
http://www.blacknews.com/news/steven_davidson101.shtml
http://www.blackvoicenews.com/news/35792-lack-of-hiring-black-firefighters-angers-locals.html
It was not a matter of me looking harder because I am just not eligible for public assistance or housing. My husband makes too much, but I like how you figured because I am black some how public assistance would be open to me. Also why would you even remotely assume public housing and assistance should only be open to minorities?
“for minorities to take advantage of including blacks”—Black are minorities you know. This statement makes me think you are implying something else.
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@ JSPOT
How do you mistakenly decide to hold someone as a slave in your home?!!
How do you mistakenly come into a mans home guns in the air rummaging through his house and shoot him when he is not even armed?
How do you mistakenly shoot a teenager who was taking out the trash for his mother? I guess the white racist mistakenly shot at the boy three times at point blank range right?
How do you mistakenly attack someone by bashing a bottle over their head and proceed to beat them?
Get real if you think that is a mistaken then you are delusional. Each of those individual knew what they were doing was wrong when they entered the situation. To claim mistake or bad situation is BS to the highest power.
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@JSPOT
“And do you ever think those events you stated are simply perpetrated by bad situations? or mistakes?? race may not have anything to do with it??”
Did you stop to think before you asked those questions…that they were given because race was involved?? Do you realize that those question are the equivalent of saying she was “pulling the race card”??
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@ JSPOT
The blog was never about who had a harder time in America, so please do not twist it to make your stance seem right. The blog has and is about black racist and white racist.
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@ Michelle
The saddest part here is they come in make an issue out of something the blog is not even about and argue it down only to find out later that they were arguing over something that the blog was not about in the first place.
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@JSPOT
you said..
“Blacks are provided equal, if not more opportunity than whites in America today.”
I would like to know how so?
“TAKE ADVANTAGE OF THEM”
The interesting thing..is that disadvantaged people generally don’t know about the opportunities available to them. So it just isn’t that simple.
JSPOT, you have the right idea, people should better themselves, but the way that you are going about explaining..seems slightly hateful. Try not to bash people whom you assume aren’t doing anything productive.
Oh by the way, I’m a black woman with a college degree so you don’t need to explain simple things to me. I know what hard work can do but I also understand that things are not accessible to all which is due to inequality that is still fairly high in the US although, like you mentioned, some improvements have been made.
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@ JSPOT
“THIS is America no matter what if you have the determination and not hide behind the fact you feel the color of your skin impedes your success, you will succeed.”—My professor told me that the American dream was a myth.
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@JSPOT
“Now that is just rude to say, where did i ever state that blacks shouldn’t defend themselves? I clearly said it accomplishes nothing to argue about who had a harder time here in America but i could voice reasons to why Native Americans could have had it worse… its all pinion based. And i simply said a constructive statement that wounds can heal.. You are taking my statement way out of context.”
Nope…not taken out of context…you may not have stated…but it was implied. Sitting silent while you are being treated as inequal?..smdh…No…not a good way to achieve equality. So do you think that the civil rights movement was wrong? Do you think they should have just kept quiet and let everything work itself out? Do you think Civil Rights fixed everything? I think I will listen to my therapist on this one…you should never suppress feelings…it only makes it worse. I will re-post the link from earlier so you can see what happens in the real world…
http://www.splcenter.org/get-informed/hate-map
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@Sharina
My professor told me the same thing!! lol
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@ deedee7789
I agree with you on that. Some improvements have been made but considering the length of time between the civil rights movement and today. Racism should be darn near obsolete.
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The thing with Civil Rights is that there were sooooooo many states against it and still are. I see the governments “benefits” the same way I the way most arguments are resolved…just an appeasement to get someone to shut up!
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@ Michelle
I agree with you on that.
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Sorry about the typos…getting frustrated… 😦
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@JSPOT
Just out of curiosity…How do you think the Native American benefits came to be??
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How can you tell me i implied something…when i described what i meant by my statement. Not everyone understand things, there are multiple reasons for events happening which you or i may not know, i simply put the example of maybe misinformation being involved. Mistakes happen and hate crimes happen. How can racism be obsolete…. your talking about hundreds of years of this behavior to be solved in a 50 year span??…. itll take a lot longer than that! Many states against civil rights?? what are you talking about, civil rights? or just black rights?? civil rights is applied to everyone now. There are more government policies to help blacks than any other minority in the U.S. AND you need to stop taking this as an attack. A great Percentage of the black population lives near the poverty line, so it is in fact geared toward the majority of the black population. More blacks under or close to the poverty line receive more housing than whites in the same economic situation??? its a statistical fact from the NY times i do not have the article with me now. And appeasement???/ maybe the programs are there to benefit the people who need it… ever think of that ?? Wait no that would make sense???? the frustration of trying to explain to have an open mind and look at things from different angles is overwhelming. I do not say i dont agree that hate crimes happen, that racism exists, or that it has had an affect on our country. But the minute you stop squandering over the past, take advantage of the opportunities now, and stop comparing many people will be better off. From what im hearing in your statements your implying that the white man has it out for blacks… and if you agree with that then i no longer wish to continue this conversation because that is a generalized racist accusation. which i fell has been IMPLIED this whole conversation.
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@ JSPOT
This post and this thread IS about comparing racisms, those of blacks and whites in America. Full stop. If you think that is a waste of time, then you are free to leave and spend your time more productively elsewhere. But speaking as someone who gets this “Blacks are just as racist!” thrown in my face all the time by whites, it is NOT a waste of time.
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I am simply trying to understand the frustration these individuals have and the evidence as to why, when im making educated conversation and posting idea’s that help combat the problems of racism, i am being yelled at and receiving statements that im subliminally implying that i don’t agree with civil rights? or that im wrong when i say everyone has opportunity here in america…
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Okay lets compare racism’s… Black’s in general, whites say, are more Racist than white’s… that Blacks feel that government policy is nothing more than a prison to appease the black man… not help him..That Black’s use their history as an excuse to receive assistance because the lack of their own effort… Now this is a racist generalization most whites have? correct?
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@ JSPOT
You managed to completely misread what I said and now you are ranting again. Focus on things that I have said to you and you could have avoided that.
Never once said racism was obsolete…I said it should be by now. I also never once said civil rights only apply to blacks and not one of my post implied that.
“There are more government policies to help blacks than any other minority in the U.S. AND you need to stop taking this as an attack”—This is where you need to actually research. Most policies for blacks actually help others such as white females, handicapped, and even glbt. I can’t think of not one policy that applies only to blacks.
“A great Percentage of the black population lives near the poverty line, so it is in fact geared toward the majority of the black population”—Again start doing some research and I mean the type that require you to do more than sit behind your computer. I live in a neighborhood mixed largely with black home owners and some white home owners. My brother-in-law lives in a neighborhood much more diverse with hispanic, asians, and white home owners. My sister-in-law who lives up north has primarily white home owners in her area with blacks moving in all the time. None of our homes are section 8 housing. Hate to break it to you but more blacks are not poverty stricken as you might think. Those that are not do not flaunt it either. That leaves a lot of ignorant people to believe that all blacks live in ghettos and are suffering from poverty. I live in the south so should I believe that a large amount of whites live in trailer parks??? I think not. While a great deal do I do not assume they account for all or even a majority of whites.
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SECTION 8 housing, by majority is comprised by the black population, i did not say all blacks are poor and live in ghettos… but statistically speaking they comprise the majority of that economic/ housing policy.
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Maybe because more female’s, handicapped and GLBT take advantage of those opportunities?? Not because they aren’t there for blacks to take advantage of. they were originally instituted specifically for the black race… not women.. nor handicapped people etc..
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@ JSPOT
You assumed what we were thinking. In not one but two rants you are telling us what we are thinking, yet on not one but several post many have stated how they felt and actually what they were thinking. None of which add up to the hate and racism this site is suppose to be perpetuating. Again I myself will be saying I don’t blame whites for anything as not all whites are racist. Heck I live a nice comfortable life and I am thankful for it, but I choose not to be ignorant to the racism that still exists.
I know mistakes happen. They do, but I don’t care what color a person is when it comes to taking innocent lives. Yes, hate crimes happen, but should it be considered acceptable? You are talking like it should be. You are basically saying to me that “so what there are a little experiences of hate crimes and racist acts because you guys get more opportunities than everyone else.”
With the little opportunities that we do get that does not excuse being treated in such a horrendous manner. There is no excuse for that.
“maybe the programs are there to benefit the people who need it… ever think of that ??”—No one said the programs were not there for people who need them, but not all people who need them are black. Do you know who are the majority welfare recipients?
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@ JSPOT
Do you realize there is a difference between a white person and a white racist?
The way you sound you do not because this statement of yours “From what im hearing in your statements your implying that the white man has it out for blacks… and if you agree with that then i no longer wish to continue this conversation because that is a generalized racist accusation” is showing you do not.
The blog is about white racists vs black racist, so how is that even at the slightest talking about all white people? It is not. You are trying to make it about all white people thus causing a mass of confusion.
FYI white racist have it out for all minorities but there focus is on blacks a majority of the time.
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Your implying im saying those things when that is not the case, i do not condone the acts of violence because of race… but it is an evil that exists in society, i simply put. Once again YOU ARE assuming i ment just Blacks. ANd i also said, and will say once again that i agree racism still happens…
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@ JSPOT
Actually your frustration is a result of you trying to prove others wrong not the result of you having some type of educated conversation and as far as the work hard statement….I was serious my professor said the American dream is a myth.
Stop telling yourself they are wrong and look at it as their situation may actually be true for them. Not the world is more fair to them because that is what you see or have experienced.
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And i understand we are talking about White racists.. i still stand by that statement, Because that is Black Racist thinking? is it not?
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Its only a myth for people who believe they cannot obtain it. I do not say unfortunate situation exists once again, people must learn to del with them in an educated unbiased way.
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do not exists****
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“I am simply trying to understand the frustration these individuals have and the evidence as to why, when im making educated conversation and posting idea’s that help combat the problems of racism, i am being yelled at and receiving statements that im subliminally implying that i don’t agree with civil rights? or that im wrong when i say everyone has opportunity here in america…”
Were you really trying to understand when you made this comment?….
“I am Native American and have the same history if not worse than Blacks do in America, but we don’t use history as an excuse for racism, prejudice or w.e your calling it. In my opinion people who agree with this nonsense are nothing more than simple minded and mistaken.”
“I cant stand hearing any racist comments or saying that one group of people is more racist than the next, because there is no justification for any of it. Good
Day”
Ah heck…I will just put the link to the whole comment…
Weren’t you doing the very things in your first comment on here that you are accusing us of doing to you?
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Im sorry for not understanding the full context of the post before hand there was quite a bit to read, and i wish you would have those comments in context with the other individuals comments so you dont just make myself look bad 🙂 thanks
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Many Black racists use history.. FACT… as an excuses for there thinking… which is true
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@JSPOT
Please explain to me how telling of experiences and expressing feelings from experiences with white racists is racist? I did not realize people were not aloud to express their feelings about how they are treated from white racists…again..how is that racist?
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@ JSPOT
A lot of black do not agree with the government appeasement programs. Again because we are not talking about all whites or all blacks for that matter that was irrelevant.
“Maybe because more female’s, handicapped and GLBT take advantage of those opportunities?? Not because they aren’t there for blacks to take advantage of. they were originally instituted specifically for the black race… not women.. nor handicapped people etc..”–So you do realize such programs are not on an option basis. For example affirmative action would not be an option of choose to or not. Now as far as other programs that would require that blacks want to take advantage of them and many of them look to be hired on their own merit not a program. Again those programs where made for others and not just blacks regardless of who takes advantage and who does not.
“ANd i also said, and will say once again that i agree racism still happens…”—Ok but you stated that it does not happen as much today. Correct? Were you not provided links of it happening today? Yes? So what point are you making here.
I am not implying anything because I can go back and show you what you posted.
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“Im sorry for not understanding the full context of the post before hand there was quite a bit to read, and i wish you would have those comments in context with the other individuals comments so you dont just make myself look bad thanks”
Is that a true apology or is it sarcasm?
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It isnt racist for people to explain experiences, but some of the comments on how they felt about those experiences are. That is a good characteristic to have, but if you cannot find work, or need help use the programs. AND IT IS A FACT there are fewr racist people % wise in the US population than there once was. I will look up the statistical data for your own eye s to view upon.
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True apology
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@JSPOT
That is a link to a NYT article about the poverty level in US. Is that the one? The only issue is that it doesn’t examine the why? It just has number with no real explanation.
————————————————————————————————————
A more recent article. Several states are cutting back on welfare. It is sad because the economy is not doing so well. Many families will be hurt by the lack of jobs and yet some more well to do folks (like Romney) believes the welfare cuts are a great improvement since it “lowers dependency”. That was a questionable observation.
I also heard about some laws that affect voting that would cut out millions of votes. Kind of like what was done in the past. Then there was the law that would allow for equal pay not passing. It is unfortunate and someone’s good fortune is being kept while others sink to the bottom.
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@JSPOT
I will continue conversation with you if you wish…If you have anything you would like to ask…I will be respectful as long as you are. I don’t like having arguments on here. It is draining and accomplishes nothing, but if you truly want to understand where I, as an individual, and coming from…I will give you the same respect.
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*am
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@ JSPOT
No it is not a black racist thinking. All those things in 1-21 has happened and been performed by white racist. That is actually a fact that is not an opinion or a thought process. Now I can’t fully attest to a black racist as I am not one, but I can point you to something that may help.
To be honest my professor was pretty well off. He spent a majority of his life as an attorney and decided to teach. Lived in what many consider to be a very prestigious gated community. He said it was a myth because it implies no matter what job you have then it will allow you to be rich and live the life of luxury. Many people believe it to be a myth so not just my professor.
“Many Black racists use history.. FACT… as an excuses for there thinking… which is true”—I agree with you on this statement, but as per this blog that is not what is going on in here. I suggest you talk to others or better yet go to the my first black experience and do not comment, but just read it. Read about all those individuals who experienced such hateful and nasty behavior from whites and other ignorant individuals. Research and find instances in today’s society and by all means look don’t limit it to just blacks. It happens and it takes acknowledging it first.
I had the it does not happen attitude to. I had it for a long time and when I saw it online my attitude was that was a few racist and not a lot. Martin situation brought racist out like freaking roaches.
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JSPOT,
First off, what is a black racist and how is he/she just as bad or worst than a white racist?
Second, what makes you think stats will tell you that racist people are at a premium? If it is low, then how would you account the systematic and institutional versions of racism which are more damaging to communities as opposed to personal and individual racism?
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@ JSPOT
The if it is true your apology is accepted.
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correction then*
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It is an unfortunate but real problem… this debate politically will never end. I do feel though that the social security system needs a big revamp…. Small business owners now will be hurt by legislation passed, or soon to be passed by our current president. This will in turn only hurt the middle class even more. It dosent make sense when you receive more than you put into the social security system.. Simple accounting you need to make more than you spend out… Many people ik have been on social security for years…. when you do the math you will recieve 4 times as much money you put into the sytem during your whole lifetime in one series or one filing for unemployment for a year..
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I do agree those points 1 – 21 are due to racist thinking, but most of that nonsense does not go on now…. and please referr whites who are racist to white racists not whites thank you. just to clear that confusion up.
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@JSPOT
“It is an unfortunate but real problem… this debate politically will never end.”
I feel that it is good that you acknowledge that there is a problem…But something that I am curious about…is why you don’t feel that people should speak up about it?
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@JSPOT
“…and please referr whites who are racist to white racists not whites thank you. just to clear that confusion up.”
That is something we all on here already are aware of…so we don’t feel it is necessary to write it out all the time. I started reading other things and why this blog exists before I assumed anything. I also asked questions if I wasn’t sure. So I didn’t come off the way that you did…not trying to be mean…just trying to explain.
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@ JSPOT
Michelle is correct.
Most people who frequent the site are aware of the difference between the two and so it is normal not to specify. Some commenters specify and some do not.
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I had a situation in a sociology class, when we were talking about demographics, a black student argued with my professor over this subject. “People who grow up in Newark Nj are less likely to succeed than people who live in Madision NJ” for those not from NJ Newark has some of the highest poverty and crime rates in the state / country, And Madison is an upper middle class town in North jersey. Now this statement was a statistical fact published in many books by renowned authors. She decided to place in a complaint about my professor and gather up the NCAA chapter at my school too try and get him fired for being racist. Correct me if im wrong with that Organization title?? What is your opinion on this matter,i would like a person who is actually black to state wether or not this was an injustice by the people persecuting him or he was simply being racist. And if you could agree that we should have more diversity, race, prejudice classes in school systems to educate what racism really is.
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Okay thank you for the clarification
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@Sharina
I know it’s a little off topic but…I didn’t realize you were from the south!! I was wondering if you had ever been outside of the South and experienced differences in how white racists are?
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I do believe people should voice their minds, but i also feel people need to be able to understand, step back and consider different possibilities to certain situations. Stubbornness is a handicap.
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@JSPOT
“People who grow up in Newark Nj are less likely to succeed than people who live in Madision NJ”
Was that statement by the teacher or the student? I can see it as an argument by either side but I assume that the teacher made the statement.
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The teacher did, but he was quoting from a sociology book, the subject was on demographics and its role in our society.
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I feel it to be true, where you live, plays a role into your education and upbringing, and your overall success from a statistical standpoint. but the girl did not… and she pursued firing the professor. The end result was the professor having to switch departments… because of fear of a law suit… i feel that was not the correct course of action and that the school was only appeasing the schools chapter of the NCAA for a suit not to be filed…
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@ Michelle
I have not to be honest with you. When I visit family in Texas I am mainly around Hispanics. When I visit family in new york I am mainly around white mormons. My view is very limited as some might say.
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She also lived in Newark NJ.. so thats why it was a big issue to her..She believed it was because the majority of the population in newark is black… and that he was implying a subliminal racist remark.
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@JSPOT
“I do believe people should voice their minds, but i also feel people need to be able to understand, step back and consider different possibilities to certain situations. Stubbornness is a handicap.”
I agree…but some people do not have knowledge or access to different possibilities and that is where it becomes offensive to assume and judge. Also, there are many people that take advantage of different possibilities…but it is not enough to provide a way for them to be free from racism and oppression. In my opinion…if that is all someone does is complain and not take action…then yes it is a handicap…but if someone takes action but still is not treated as equal…then they should have a right to express themselves and fight for themselves…I don’t see that as a handicap.
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I don’t know the full conversation but from what you mentioned I feel that the student was wrong to pursue action against that teacher. I cannot find anything racist in that line alone. There are many factors to why that statement may be the case that I’m sure the professor was going to explore and explain. Also, “diversity, race, prejudice classes” sound likes interesting courses but it would probably become a big mess if people aren’t willing to listen to one another. That is my opinion and I also want to know what you would prefer the opinion of black commenters? Non-black commenters can be just as insightful on discussions involving race.
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@Sharina
I have to confess…that until now I thought that the Mormon religion was a white only religion. I have a friend that is from Utah and I guess that is where my assumptions came from. You know what they say about making assumptions…lol Do you mind me asking questions in the open thread so I don’t go off topic again?
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@ Michelle
Sure go ahead.
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@ deedee7789
I felt like the professor was just teaching the material and presented examples that made sense and that he quoted out of a book. I feel that the girl making the accusations didn’t really know what racism was.. Thats why i feel class’s and education is so important, so that especially young people can understand the difference and make change. Cut off the head of the snake, If you teach class’s at a young age you can begin to end the cycle. once again education is the key. And to be honest i work in area’s of high black population often, such as Newark Nj and i am actually the recipient of Black racism. I have been kicked, pushed, and called names at such as white boy. etc… Things stolen and robbed, because i am of technically white/Red
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white / red skin color..
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@JSPOT
“white / red skin color..”
May I ask what that is in reference to? It kind of seemed random. Was there a comment that I may have missed?
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I am ( White European / Red Native American) . Native americans were once called Red skinned people.
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Its evidence in old looney toons : /
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Lol its kind of funny because my avatar on the right is red.
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Acme, Disney were very racist for their depictions of POC. I watched a you tube video and my jaw dropped.
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@JSPOT
Wow that is so random XD. About the avatar.
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@JSPOT
Your comment must have been in moderation…I see it now 🙂
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@ JSPOT
“I have been kicked, pushed, and called names at such as white boy. etc… Things stolen and robbed, because i am of technically white/Red”—I can actually relate to that. In school I did not have many black friends because they felt my features were too white. When I started dating my husband I lost 2 of my four black friends.
My grandfather who looked pretty much like an Native American actually experienced it to a level where the black members of his church tried to break his credibility. They stole money from the church and accused my grandfather of doing it. He was damned for not being black enough and damned for not being white enough.
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@JSPOT
Just saw your comment where it says “I have been kicked, pushed, and called names at such as white boy. etc… Things stolen and robbed, because i am of technically white/Red”.
That is really disturbing.No one deserves to go through something like that.
@Sharina
Wow, I never knew you experienced something like that. Its good your real friends stuck by your side. You deserved better than that.
Both of you deserved better than that.
Maybe abagond could start a general “racist experience” thread for people to reflect and grow as long as experience undermining is still banned.
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@JSPOT
“I have been kicked, pushed, and called names at such as white boy. etc… Things stolen and robbed, because i am of technically white/Red”
I had the opposite…I was called bad names and not accepted because I didn’t look like what was considered to be white. My father was always told he was not white…which made his veins stick out of his neck and become very irrate! My ancestry was always kept quiet…my father passed in December and we were not on speaking terms and it is not until here in the past week that I have reconnected with my mother on speaking terms. So I am hoping that I can find out about my ancestry in the near future from my mother. There have been hints dropped over the years by my mother with a connection to Indian and black…but I am having difficulty getting information from my other relatives around the country. They don’t even want to give me names that span past my grandparents.
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@ deedee7789
Thank you. Some times I feel bad because the two friends I lost…I knew them since Kindergarten.
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@Sharina
I have only been able to have 1 true friend in my entire life that didn’t condemn me for my beliefs…sadly she moved to Utah 7 years ago. It is hard meeting people and getting attached to them thinking that they have the same beliefs and then their true selves show through and the friendship is over. I am very guarded when I meet people now…and because of that I don’t have any friends here.
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@ Michelle I will respond on open thread so it will not get too off in here.
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@deedee7789
I concede the argument.
You are right in what you said and I feel foolish.
I did say that I was reaching to find an argument here. It’s like going all in with a terrible poker hand. Im sorry.
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my point isn’t to derail but to try to make an argument on the topic of blacks can be just as racist to bring up ancient egypt was foolish.
I will admit this as a whole in the history of America whites have been much more racist hence my disparate argument.
However, that has been pounded into our heads so much it’s sort of like rubbing it in.
Also because of the fact that I’m not a part of the rich establishment I don’t feel like i’m on the oppressors team. So when I see black people lumping all whites in that mold I feel that is wrong and also racist.
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@ Michelle…I’m very intrigued by your posts. I like your style. As a very light-skinned woman of mixed race (black/white), I’ve had similar experiences with Black folks not liking me, calling me names, not wanting me to be with Black men, etc. I can definitely relate to that. And it sounds like there may be some admixture in your background too, although you identify as white.
But now that I’m older, I kind of see what the issue is with some Black people. I believe that Eurocentric beauty standards continue to hurt people of color, with the exception of those who have not internalized it or who have broken free from it. I didn’t always understand why some Black women were so mean and bitchy towards me, especially if I was in the company of a Black male. But I’ve come to understand that it is because this country has made many women of color, especially Black women, feel like they are inferior. They looked at my skin and my features and the length of my hair and assumed that I was white or something other than black. So I guess the anger stems from pain…the pain from being told that the lighter your skin is, the prettier you are (which isn’t true and it also doesn’t apply in my case because very few people have called me beautiful in my life).
The anger stems from little Black girls being called “nappy-headed” and being devalued in comparison to others. The anger stems from being stereotyped as ugly and unfeminine. The anger stems from being treated like a second-class citizen. Now I understand to some extent, having experienced some of it, although I am not visibly black to most people (but some can tell and they do treat me accordingly).
So when a Black woman expresses frustration because a Black man is holding hands with some blonde chick, I understand where it comes from. I also know that some WW who date Black men are racist themselves (despite being in an interracial relationship) and they love the BBC (big black c*ck) but they disrespect Black women because they feel superior. So I can see why that would hurt some Black women and why they would direct their anger at random individuals, because they can’t really change the way things are in society.
I’m not saying it’s right that complete strangers lash out at you because you date Black men…it’s none of their business. But try to understand that this anger comes from a place of hurt.
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@ Cinnamondiva
Thank you for sharing that and that is a very interesting post. I never really paid attention to how much the standard of beauty has played into how black women feel when they see a black man with a white woman.
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Now on the subject at hand…I will admit that there was a time when I felt that Black people could be just as racist as whites. This perception came from my personal experiences as a person of mixed race who has been subjected to discrimination from both sides.
Do I still feel this way? It depends, if I can be honest. I believe that some blacks can certainly be prejudiced. Black people are only human like everybody else, after all. They are capable of both cruelty and kindness.
But I can more clearly understand the issues with racism/colorism that some Black people have, so it is less hurtful to me now than it was in the past. I can dismiss a Black person who calls me a “cracker” because they are only making an ignorant judgment based on what their eyes see. They don’t know that I’m half black and they are only lashing out for whatever reason. I figure that if somebody doesn’t like me because I’m biracial, that is their problem.
White racism is a bit more painful, though, because of the long sordid history of oppression/brutality/dehumanization against people of color in general. It is a somewhat more complex dynamic, in my humble opinion.
I can laugh at a Black person who calls me derogatory names or says ugly things about the way I look. But I can’t easily ignore when a white person or a white-identified Hispanic person (I’m from Florida) does the same. I can’t explain it, but there is something more hurtful about it. Being called a “nigger” has a way of twisting me up inside. I can only speak for myself, but I can imagine that some people have a similar reaction when this word is hurled at them.
So while I’ve had negative experiences with some Black people and other minorities who treated me like dirt, there is something about white racism that cuts deep. There is definitely a difference. But this is only my perspective. I’m sure others may feel differently.
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@Cinnamondiva
It’s not you their hating on, it’s all of the bs that came out of slavery, as it relates to the mulatto class. Black people don’t dislike you because you’re biracial, you’re black in the eyes of most black people.
Tyrone
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Hey, Sharina…thanks for your kind words! I could be wrong, but that’s how I see it.
I believe that most Black women have a positive body image and high self-esteem in spite of what they often deal with, but I wanted to focus on the possibility of why it bothers some Black women to see Black men cross the “color line”, so to speak.
I know some Black men who will belittle and disrespect Black women but turn around and treat a white/Asian/Hispanic woman like she is a princess.
Some of these men will call a Black woman ugly or complain about her attitude, but they don’t mind being with a trashy white woman. And then when you factor in the whole complicated history of Black women being denigrated for their appearances/characters/sexuality, there is another dimension.
I think that for some Black women, it really hurts because of the notion that somebody who shares one’s skin color will also have shared experiences and they will be able to relate to what you deal with as a minority. So if they see a white woman with a Black man, there is somehow a feeling of betrayal, even if they don’t know the guy personally.
I hope I’m not being presumptuous here, I’m just taking a stab at why there is a certain reaction from some Black women sometimes.
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Hi, Tyrone…that is an interesting observation. Sometimes I can’t help but take it personally when some Black people treat me badly, but maybe you’re right. Maybe it isn’t about me at all. I guess it hurts because I tend to care more about what Black people think for some reason. I feel a sense of connection with my black side, but it isn’t reciprocated.
But no, I wouldn’t say that I’m black in the eyes of most Black people. It depends on who is looking at me and what they perceive me to be. Some Black folks do not see me as “one of them” at all. My appearance has a lot to do with it, as well as other aspects of who I am.
I’ve only encountered a few Black people who viewed me as a “sistah” and accepted me unconditionally. The rest seem to view me with contempt or suspicion, mainly because of the way I look. I often feel that if I had darker skin, I would be more readily accepted.
I’ve noticed that there is a negative perception of biracial and multiracial people. As a woman, I’ve had people assume that I’m bitchy/slutty/stuck-up just because of what I look like. People call us “mutts” and “half-breeds” and other derogatory names. It is often assumed that we’re all tragic mulattos and that we’re confused. So yeah, there certainly are people who have an issue with me because I’m mixed and as light as I am. But it’s cool, that’s life. It is what it is.
Slavery and its aftermath did a number on Black people throughout the diaspora, didn’t it? There is a lot of division between light and dark, mixed and unmixed, etc. I believe that while some Black people are prejudiced toward anyone who isn’t black, there is more intra-racial racism amongst ourselves.
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@ dave
I’m a bit baffled at what the “supposed” slavery of whites over 8,000 years ago in Egypt, affects whites today. And before you say slavery is slavery, don’t forget this barbarity only ended in the US about six generations ago, by law. However, its stepchild, Jim Crow for all intent and purpose existed until the 1960s.
Looking at this logically, who would be more affected today, the white descendants of 8,000 years ago, or the descendants of the mostly recently released, approximately 150/50 year ago?
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Sorry that should read “supposed” slavery of whites over 5000 years ago, rather than over 8000.
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@ubuntu
I don’t disagree with you.
My point was actually to say that when people talk about historical white people raping and pillaging “every” continent throughout history, it becomes a little much. Then I start to notice these finger pointers, in those instants, have a hidden racist agenda.
So it was more of a “what if” argument. Like “What if white people judged modern day black people’s character based on the brutality of the Ancients”
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“History is in the past for a reason, move on and take advantage of the opportunities provided, paid for in blood and tears by your ancestors. Hard work, and effort are the key to success, not squandering over your past generations of people that may or may not have been affected by these tragic events in American/ Global history. Why not create something constructive and intelligent in this blog instead of this nonsense. The point of History should be to learn from its mistakes and not use it as a weapon and scapegoat, to continue hatred and racism. The POINT IS TO END ALL INEQUALITY. From reading this post i can positively say that i feel stupid and ashamed for reading it. And hope that one day you can perhaps learn to forgive and forget…. events that have not directly affected yourself. I cant stand hearing any racist comments or saying that one group of people is more racist than the next, because there is no justification for any of it. Good day.”
“The inequality you speak of has been severely diminished and is not as rampant as you may think. Blacks are provided equal, if not more opportunity than whites in America today. TAKE ADVANTAGE OF THEM. EX: Housing plans, employment opportunities such as SBA company grants for minorities… Grants/ Scholarships for Education the list is endless. How long will it take for Blacks to stop using History as an excuse for their current problems. JUST SURPASS the problems. Many blacks have done this, several who are family friends of mine. The point I have is many who complain these opportunities aren’t provided for blacks just aren’t looking hard enough nor determined enough to take advantage of them.”
If you think that your two previous quotes would endear you to the majority of commenters on this blog, you’re sadly mistaken. People of colour, and black sin particular, have heard it all before and will not be silent anymore. Sometimes I think that whites bemoan fact they allowed us to become literate, and wouldn’t mind turning the clock back to the good old days.
You may want to re-think… “AND IT IS A FACT there are fewr racist people % wise in the US population than there once was”. May be so, but there are enough whites in the system who silently, wittingly or unwittingly do torpedo anything that is progressive for blacks. Sure, you may never, never hear them spouting n….., n….., n….., wearing robes and pointed hats or burning crosses, but it does not preclude them practicing in covert ways, especially if there are in government or responsible to carry out government’ mandates. This was once their domain and they were freely able to practice it in the open without any repercussions in days gone by. They now do it surreptitiously with the results no less devastating to people of colour: – note date of article JSPOT
http://www.reuters.com/article/2010/02/18/us-usa-farmers-pigford-idUSTRE61H5XD20100218
I chose this link, and there are many others I could have selected to make my point, was largely due to a 60 minutes expose I watched some 15 to 20 year ago. What I found most appalling was that the white administrative director for the Farmer Assistance Program for a number of Southern States (he also lived in one of those states) could not explain to the interviewer why the only people who did not receive any assistance in his jurisdiction were black farmers, even though, they did everything right from the beginning, and some of their farms were adjacent to their white neighbours. This was not a hand out to only black farmers; it was assistance to those who suffered catastrophic losses due to drought. The likes of you will always want of counteract by saying, but the system did work; they sued and won but never try to understand what happened to some of those farmers in the20 intervening years. Why did they have to go the court to get redress when white farmers did not have to?
What you need to understand, your lived life is not comparable to many people of colour. You may receive a pass in America based on the colour of your skin, while many others do not base on theirs.
As a number the commenters have suggested you do, if you really and truly find racism irksome, I too would suggest you take some time and acquaint yourself with the issue of racism in America. It’s no longer about robes and funny hats, n….., n….., n….., but it’s presidential candidate, who later became president, that launched his campaign in or near Philadelphia, Mississippi extolling states’ rights dogma and getting rid of welfare queens. We on this side know what he was talking about. So please spare us your preposterous assertions, as you’ve alluded to above, before commenting on what you perceive to be black racism.
I do not want to bore with other examples of your American “post-racial society” – my words.
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Sorry the above post was in response JSPOT
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Abagond et. al,
This may sound as though i am derailing the thread, but seriously i am not. I just want to point out that people should be careful with statements like the above. Men from all backgrounds and colors are dissatisfied with the women from their in-group.
However, this dissatisfaction has little to do with men forsaking the women from their in-group as they still marry them in high numbers as opposed to women in out-groups.
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@ phoebeprunelle…I’m the one who made that statement above. I apologize if I offended you.
I was not speaking as a matter of generalization. I was talking about what I have observed on a personal level, because I have indeed noticed that.
With all due respect, I believe you misunderstood what I was saying. Again, my fault if I was unclear.
But I still stand by my belief that this does happen. I agree that men from all colors/backgrounds can be dissatisfied with the women from their own group, but I was addressing Michelle and discussing why some Black women may have had an issue with her dating Black men. I could relate somewhat because I had similar issues when I was younger (although I’m not white but I guess I can “pass” in most situations). So I was trying to explain to her, a white person, why some people might have problems with it and how different factors can influence their behavior. She may not be entirely aware of certain issues like colorism and how some Black women (including mixed gals like me, believe it or not) feel in a society that pushes Eurocentric beauty and this could be why some black girls turned on her when she dated a black boy in school.
I wasn’t suggesting that Black men prefer white women or that they are more likely to marry them, not at all. I know that most Black men marry Black women. I was simply offering reasons for why some Black folks have difficulty trusting white people and why some Black women might react negatively towards her, especially if they see her with a Black man. This is why I said “some” people and not “all”.
I kind of have some experience in this department but I really didn’t mean to ruffle anyone’s feathers. I’m a bit sleepy at the moment, so I apologize if I’m not making much sense.
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What makes you think i was offended? Was it something i said?
Many people don’t know this, but in general, men of all colors and backgrounds are to a degree dissatisfied with the new new woman that we now see in the world.
You can observe it right here in America where white middle and upper class men create sites like nomarriage.com and happierabroad.com all encouraging “tired” men like themselves to fire their overweight, independant, loud mouth white wives in favor of softer, slimmer and quiter Eastern European and Latin (white), and Asian women. Just saying.
But, i do see your point in your first comment. Funny thing is i have been around white women and Asian women who say they are “scrong women that many men can’t handle”. What the hell does that even mean????
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@phoebeprunelle (love your username) writes: “Funny thing is i have been around white women and Asian women who say they are “scrong women that many men can’t handle”.
—
The actually said ‘scrong’, huh?? LMAO!
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Dang. It’s supposed to read: They actually said ‘scrong’, huh??
!
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Ummm yeah Parfum Bleu. . .they said”scrong” among other shit that society thinks only crazy black women say.
Like being an “independant woemin”
Keep in mind that these girls i hung around were all masters degree toting, in shape women.
SMH
Hey thanks. Parfum Bleu sounds so French, lol.
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@phoebeprunelle..I thought you were offended because there seemed to be an issue with what I stated earlier, that’s all. You quoted me and then added your own thoughts. I’m glad that you weren’t offended, though. No worries. 😉
Yeah, I know that some white men who date Asian women have said some unflattering things about WW, but I was generally focusing on Black women/Black men and how complicated the issue of racism can be when a white or very light-skinned partner enters the picture. Since the topic is whether Black folks can be racist, I was trying to address something Michelle said previously about feeling like some Black people had problems with her because she is white.
On another note…did they really say “scrong”? Seriously?
And I, too, like your username as well as Parfum Bleu’s.
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Whenever I hear the term “independent woman” I always think about Beyonce’s song from about 10 years ago, I don’t know why.
Some people take the feminist empowerment thing a bit too far sometimes and it sounds like the women you describe are unknowingly perpetuating stereotypes about Black women or adopting it for themselves (the “Strong Black Woman” myth) although they aren’t black.
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Why are white people so attached to us? U cannot address blacks without having to listen to white people’s bullshit.. It’s ridiculous. I mean, who cares? Whites need to get up off black folks proverbial nutsacks and get lives.. I mean, damn!
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It’s simply amazing how we as black people cannot discuss our culture , our point of view, our beauty, our status here in the americas without a bunch of white people showing up and be-fouling the air with their stench..It’s disgustingly annoying.
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If Europeans got their culture, civilization from Blacks, then why I haven’t seen one single architectures in African which can come close to those in Europes.
In fact put European arts, culture, architect etc.. next to any Africans nations and it’s like night and day. Nothing similar what’s so ever.
Are you trying to tell me that Michael Angelo copies his arts from some African Zulu?
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@ Anomymous
Quote one things that says Europeans got their culture or civilization from blacks. I notice how quick you are to run away when actually addressed so I doubt I hear back from you after this but if you are so brave as to comment then we will continue
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Black People aren’t racist or just as racist. Black people are reacting to the current system of white supremacy.
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your whole posit leaves one to believe that you feel whites, because of thier racism, are inferior to blacks. sounds racist to me
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Black people are just as racist as white:
First of all define “black” and define “white.
By definition the question is contexualised from a “white” or European context.
Secondly.certain peoples of European origin seem obsessed with “balancing” history.
Let me state a fact.
European “imperialism”literally constructed a campaign to detach Peoples of African origin from the following:
-Their Cultures
-Their Histories
-Their own national constructs
-there geography
They sought to posses there history ,pervert history to imply ancient peoples of the eurasian continent where racist,they were not.
Europeans claim ancient cultures such as Greece, the Etruscans the Romans
Thease people did not see themselves as white,nor european..a fact,nor did they see others peoples as inferior. At worst thease cultures where culturalist not racist.
Any in fact like all great cultures ,they were multi ethnic in many areas.
And they do it to this very day,and whats worse they deny THEIR OWN PEOPLE. this information deliberatly to justify the historical and contempory exsplotaion of the African Continent..Europeans have been trained to racist over hundreds of years so that the wealthy can exsploit everybody.
Europeans have suffered self impossed slavery over centuarys it was called feudalism.Fac;t under that system people had no rights unless their fuedal lord said so.
They like to crap on about “blacks” being slaves to transfer the shame of their own slave ancestory and to ignore the deliberate acceptance of enslavement of others ,fromwhich they greatly benifited from.
Im an Industrial Designer ,Engineer..and have managed to practice such profession ,under great duress.why has it been difficult.
Because “whites”in certain European Countries whish to persit..in the myth that “blacks” dont have a history of design ,technology and innovation and therfore ate not capable of such .why? Because they whish to maintain a fantasy that the black peoples of the world cannot contribute such things and are therfore inferior and need to looked after as children
Ive had designs stolen ..by OEMS chambers of Commerce and small companies,ive been denied work for years on occasions until certain people whish to exsploit my ideas ,if i refuse or i refuse to be monitored at or i protest in anyway contract have been taken from me.
I have recently been paid less then half what i should have been last year..and i have had my exspenses and pay denied me by managers at a GLOBAL OEM who wiped the records of my exspenses.in my persuit of my money ..members of another Global OEM liabled me by email because i whish to recover my money.
So there we have a modern example or Slavery ,oppresion,denial, theft, character assaination .
My Crime. Im not the stereotype they whish me to be which sustains their rediculously pathetic mythologies.
By the way my various collegues are more then aware of this behaivour.
Please dont talk to me about “blacks” being racist.if there is such a thing as evil.
Then it as nothing to do with God or the Devil.neither or necessary in this World.
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Apologies,it was typed rapidly.
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By the way…this amuses me….FATHER CHRISTMAS a white guy, His little Helper?
BLACK PETER..talk about embedding constructs.
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Matthew 5:43-4
Love for Enemies
43 “You have heard that it was said, ‘Love your neighbor[a] and hate your enemy.’ 44 But I tell you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, Racist blacls and jews don’t like hearing this.
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Wow … To the posters who insult Bi-Racial people, wow I guess your “white” masters taught you your own version of racism and how to put people down because they’re “not” of pure blood!!! Wow. It’s like people who only like “pure breeds,” versus mutts which are supposedly better and smarter. But hey … let’s Hoorah Pure Bred Humans (whatever that actually may be) as being better than let’s say those who have diluted blood lines like …. President Barack Hussein Obama and his white momma and white mammy!!! That’s like saying Alexander Dumas should never be a respected writer because he’s of African descent with mixed blood coursing through his veins.
Slavery started with one Black Chief, selling out his fellow African tribesman for a profit or vengeance, the first buyer would have been Black … until the Europeans arrived and started shipping human bodies from one continent to another. So if the buyer that shipped humans across the ocean had been black, like the seller … would we be talking about racism today?
Before slavery from Africa to the Americas was happening, the Aztecs had slaves, they were red and brown in complexion. It was a Slave (Malinche) who helped Cortez overthrow the Aztec empire. Incas had slaves, so did the Mayans … so slavery isn’t a racial thing, it’s an economic thing. “Great” Civilization has survived without the use of free labor … today we happen to call them interns.
Africa is the home of the human race, but creation of “civilization” (temples of worship, and the beginnings of architecture) started in the Middle East with the Sumerians … probably because there was no place to hide from the desert sun.
I absolutely agree that the Africans of Egyptian history have never been given enough credit, for many contributions to humanity and civilization.
The largest ancient library was once in Egypt, it went up in flames, but luckily I guess a bunch of white men were studying, stealing and writing down the knowledge. Unfortunately no other Black nation in Africa took the time to study what was being written and gathered by the Egyptians or the Nubians. Is that the fault of White Men, that the rest of Africa didn’t get the knowledge that the Greeks and Romans did??
Prior to African slaves arriving via the Middle Passage, many Moors (black men) had arrived with White Europeans … except the people they were enslaving and eventually causing Genocide to 100 Million, were brown skinned Native Americans … Africans were later used to replace the labor shortage, from 100 Million dead Brown and Red people.
I don’t see African Americans feeling sorry for the 100 Million that died. Any much more than I see White Americans feeling sorry for the plight of 100 Million.
Also before Columbus arrived … the Caribe (one of a few tribes in the Caribbean) use to sail from island to island killing, stealing food and enslaving Taino and Arawak women and children. They weren’t from Europe, they weren’t white and no white man had convinced them to slavers.
Human beings, of all colors and religion are screwed up!!
Today … Native Americans are far worse off than African Americans. They’re poorer. They have lower life expectancy rates. They suffer from discrimination from all groups. Not just from whites. Higher crime rates on reservations than the city of Chicago. They have higher drop out rates. Higher drug addiction rates.
Let’s not forget, before they were killed to near extinction, Native Americans North & South of the borders… were slaves before Africans were brought here. So slavery and the result of slavery has hurt more than one group of human beings.
It’s not just a Black, Red, Brown or a White problem. This is a Human problem. History loves to repeat itself … from continent to continent.
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Oh and let’s not forget … those who built the pyramids (Africa, Americas, Indonesia) used Slave Labor, that was long before “White” controlled the “planet” … those that enslaved to build pyramids were men of color.
At one point of African history, they viewed “White” as savages. … In the 1,000,000 years of human existence, different people have been on top and others at the bottom and they switched.
Africa was a major power before Europe even knew how to build anything!!
So it’s an economic issue, not a racial issue. It was about those who had the means to opress versus those who didn’t have the means to defend themselves.
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@ stilettoTreehugger
I would like to point out that …..well….you missed the point, but please by all means continue.
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@ sharina … my point is, human have a history of being screwed up to other human beings. At one point Africa was THE World Power. Then Middle East. Then Asia. Then Europe and in the meantime the Americas were all ruling with a certain amount of brutality. Be it Ramses, Alexander the Great, Ghangas Khan or Motezuma … they used their fellow man as slaves, sport and profit.
At some point all our forefathers were rulers and they may have brutal, or a peaceful tribe, who may have been later subjected to brutality by some waring opportunistic neighboring or distant tribe.
Some people are beautiful human beings and some people just aren’t.
Power can corrupt, if wielded with ignorance and a lack of empathy for our fellow man. People look for excuses to justify their horrid behavior.
If it’s about race … explain every brutal dictators excuse, why they kill, torture and enslave their own people? … Then within the very same religion they have sects within each religion and they fight each other. This is religion??
Native Americans fought and killed each other and they all pretty much looked very similar to each other and they had no clue about the existence of anyone else on the planet. Isolated here in the Americas.
China built a wall to keep other people who looked very similar to them.
Hitler didn’t focus his attention on Africa when he decided to commit genocide.
Life … the good, the bad, the ugly and the beautiful (if you can get past the bad and the ugly, we would be able to see how beautiful we all are in our unique ways.)
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@ stiettotreehugger
Do two wrongs make a right? Maybe if it is four wrongs will it then some how become right? In your two paragraphs you managed to not only justify racist acts but also justify slavery. Maybe you felt if you added more words it would make it agreeable. Maybe you felt that if you bring up others crimes it will excuse racist act of slavery against blacks. So no that does not whitewash it.
Slavery is wrong period, but I would first like to enlighten you that not all blacks were decended from slaves and some even came to the States free. Where you aware that even though free that if a white man or woman wanted you to work for them, then you could become heir slave? Simply because of that nice dark skin of yours. Did you know that African slaves had some rights in Africa compared to the rights they had being owned by whites? Were you aware that while many were sold there were also many that were kidnapped?
See you may want to bring up all the wrongs other commit to minimize white wrongs, but it wont and it wont make those acts less racist.
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Correction stilettotreehugger.
I realize what point you are making, but you still miss the point of this post.
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My point … human beings are screwed up … even when it’s wrong.
We need to be questioning the functionality of our brains and why we behave the way we do. All groups take advantage when and where possible. Men over women, Women over men. White over Blacks, Blacks over Whites … Asians do it to each individual Asian culture. … So what is it about human beings … that they want to think that they’re better than there fellow man and then find an excuse why they’re better.
Society today, is better than it was 100 years ago, 1000 year ago and 10,000 years ago. Women are better off today than they were 50 years ago. And about 4,000 ago women were worshipped and then they were subjectified for thousands of years and we are the other half of the planet.
I understand that the main point of Abagond’s post “Blacks are just as racist” … and I was saying most people are racists when it’s convenient and it’s incorrect to label only one group and ignore the poor behavior of other groups, just because it fits our theory.
I’ve met Asians, that they think the world is filled with disrespectful, lazy and willful individuals, therefore less deserving of respect. Japanese do not like the Chinese. Koreans do not like the Chinese and the Chinese don’t like anyone.
I’ve met many Latinos who dislike White, Blacks and Indians, for whatever reason … and their mixed with all 3 races.
I’ve met many old Black men, who hate everyone; White, Hispanics, Asians and other Blacks (lighter or darker skinned.)
I’ve met many old White men, who believe they’re superior than all but admit they’re a “dying breed” … if they’re all that, why are they a dying breed. According to Darwin, the strong will survive.
Or could it just be that human beings are afraid and dislike anything that is “new” or “different” to them. Hence why we thought the world was flat for far too long, and why intelligent thought provoking “white” men were thrown in jails and killed … for challenging the status quo of the church.
As the human race, we are better off now (except for priveledged White Men who’s top dog status has been challenged) than we all were 50 years ago. Not that everything is perfect, but we certainly have more chances to better future than we did 50 years ago.
Life is a battle, always has been, always will be … and there will always be a group trying to be top of the pile, using whatever excuse they can find.
I know many people of color who buy the latest and greatest gadget, and don’t care that the Asian making the gadget are abused, some have died from poor work conditions and many other have committed suicide because of the abusive work conditions. … Yet, all I’ve heard “It’s not my problem, I don’t live over there, I’m not Asian” … but we as American consumers are knowingly taking advantage of other cultures just to have cheap prices. We know people are dying and are abused and paid maybe a $1 a day … but it hasn’t stopped the world largest group with purchasing power to shift their money to companies that are considerate to the planet or other people.
I haven’t seen “White: American Consumers worry about countries like the Ukrain, Poland or Ireland … those very poor white countries that are currently having serious financial problems and have had a long history of being impoverished … these “White with blonde hair and blue eyes.” countries don’t seem to be enjoying their “White” privileged. Corporate America owned and operated by “White” America they didn’t ship jobs to poor whie nations like Poland, they shipped jobs to China.
Human beings regardless of race, culture or religion … will take advantage of any situation that will benefit them. And if that means using brute strength to intimidate or intelligence to out maneuver or financial stability which purchases more life options … they will use it.
As for Slavery … every ethic group has been enslaved, abused and/or oppressed at some point or another in human history. There is no group that owns the rights of being the world’s only victim.
White America may want to keep convincing the African American community to believe that we are the only abused, oppressed and “it suck to be us” group … all in the attempt to keep us divided and not united against them.
It works. Because I don’t know any black friend that even cares to know about the unfortunate status of this countries original inhabitants Native American community.
Just like Jews who only want to focus on only the Jews that were killed by Hitler …what happened to the other 5 million people who were killed by Hitler that weren’t of the Jewish religion? So when it comes to the Holocaust do we mean to say only, the Jewish plight matters? And all others who were mattered, their stories matter not???
But hey … according to some of the posters here … My Half this, half that, part this and part that racially mixed blood, is unworthy of an opinion, thoughts or rights!! I’m a half breed of everything … so my views don’t matter. Which by the way, is the oldest form of racism, practiced by every group on this planet for a far back as human history can go. If you’re only half of anything …you’re not worthy. lol
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Slavery is never just. There’s no way to justify WHY human beings treat other human beings like animals. It’s an unfortunate part of human history.
The question is … how do we stop treating other people horribly for financial advancement today?
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@stilettotreehugger
Again I get your point, but you are not getting mine or the point of the blog itself. You spend more time going on and on about your point to truly grasp what is going on here. I will elaborate when I have more time.
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@ Sharina … Apparently not … I said, yes, agreeing to the point of Abagond’s post about “blacks are just as racist” … I think all groups practice racism. I think all ethnic groups are insensitive. I don’t see Blacks being more sensitive and therefore more considerate to other racial groups of people. African Americans see themselves above Muslims and Arabs. The African American Community didn’t come out on behalf of the Muslim community during 9/11… they were right there next to their white counterparts bashing Muslim Americans. Reveling in the idea “yeah, we’re no longer the most hated group in the United States” … wow really? That’s not racist? A Latina pushes an Indian man on the train tracks because “I hate all Arabs and Muslims” he was Indian, not Arab not Muslim but her mind all one and the same.
Hate, fear and victimization is how this country uses to keep us divided and fractured!!!
I can admit it when we’re wrong … can you?
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@StilettoTreehugger
You remind me of a teenager who took a history course and thinks they are now verse with the world but is still lacking in understanding and truth.
1. This particular post is about a common statement that racist whites use to excuse their own racism and hatred. Abagond gave 21 example of what has been done to black people by white people. Not all white people mind you. Because you lacked that understanding you proceeded to discuss all the wrongs of the world. No one is disagreeing on the wrongs of the world.
2. You are using a tactic that all racist whites that come to this blog use and there is actually a seperate post about that as well. It is refered to as the Arab slave trader argument. This is when you make excuses or justify some wrong by saying or bring up what others did. You are in essence saying it is no big deal because they did it. You further confirmed this by trying to say slavery was a way to replace the labor shortage. Not to mention comparing slavery to a dictatorship.smh
I have asked you several questions and you keep avoiding them by writing long paragraphs to hide your lack of knowledge, but you are exemplify what you don’t know. No one is denying wrongs of the world, but you are and have excused several of them without you knowing it. All this because one…not some…has an issue with mixed people. Did you read to know why?
So because you don’t know anyone that cares about the plight of native America s then the African American community is divided and it is all the white mans fault? ROFL. Please educate yourself.
I am not saying it to be mean but you have a lot to learn and you can start by exploring other posts.
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@ stilettotreehugger
When you finally realize that you didn’t get the point then I will discuss on because the blog is not about blacks are just as racist. That is just the title.
Now I am African American and I don’t see myself above Muslims and Arabs. Funny considering a large amount of African Americans are Muslim. You cant take the incident of a few and conclude that is how a whites or blacks feel about Muslims and Arabs. I like how you know what all blacks think though.
Secondly so now you want to focus on racist acts instead of world wrongs?
Truth is ignorance is what keeps us more divided and fractured. When people fail to seek truth and accept only what they are force feed to believe.
I admit wrongs. In fact I admit it and agree with you in one of my post. I guess that is another one you failed to read and understand. Anyway just read what is going on for better understanding because some in here would eat you alive. Blacks, whites, and Asian. Mixed and not.
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I did read all the other posts, not just to this blog but some of the other posts including her “21 ways” people excuse their racist behavior. I’m not giving anyone a pass, I guess you would call that racist.
Do you think that by being victims and that all White people are “evil” or that all Black people are “criminal” … that it’s going to help elevate my lot in life?? Pay my bills, get me another college degree? Do you mean to say by believing someone’s skin color makes them more intelligent or more ignorant, will help my community and improve my life and that of my children?
I answered your questions and I went further as to explaining why I believe what I believe. And why I think what the problem is.
I never said racism didn’t exist. Nor did I give White people an excuse. I said we all experienced it’s ugly verbatim one time or another in our lives and we choose to give it credence.
How many in our community has suffered racism and still created a fabulous life for themselves and their family? Many, but not enough.
Slavery wasn’t exclusively felt by one group in recent and far history, nor can it be owned by one group. By one group owning it, it negates the experiences of other cultures who were subjected to such brutality. The plight and genocide of Native Americans continues to this day, except it’s ironically not “newsworthy.”
Unlike most Americans, my multi-racial, national and religious blood, gave me a desire to study all cultures in my attempt to understand “my” history, the history of “my family” the history of the countries from which my family traveled from … I wanted to know what makes our American history … more complicated, and more “screwed up” than the history of other countries … and then I realized we were all screwed up. White People are screwed up. Asians are screwed up. Blacks are screwed up. Arabs are screwed up. Hispanics are screwed up … heck the term Hispanic itself is racist. HISpanic … No need for anyone to Panic, Not HERpanic and Not HISpanic.
As for educating myself … haha coded words for calling me dumb and ignorant … Typical, for someone who doesn’t like what they’re hearing … are you saying only “some” people are entitled to their thoughts and opinions. If you don’t like someone else’s point of view, do you normally insult them? Does it make you feel better? Did it give you a sense of power? A sense of being?
The next time someone makes a comment about my “skin color” … I’ll be sure to point out, I have no valid opinion on the topic because my blood was diluted.
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Sharina … I read what you wrote about agreeing with some of my points … I didn’t realize I had to repeat what you said like a parrot for to realize I read what you wrote.
This whole blog is about generalizing. The title to the post is a generalization “Blacks are just a racist” … because clearly not all Blacks are racists, any more than ALL White people are racists, Asians or Latinos are racists. Anymore than everyone in the LGBT community is an interior decorator. Not all Black gay men are on the DL.
So yes, I was generalizing, just like the blog. Not all African Americans dislike Arabs or Muslims. Islam is the fastest growing religion in the world. I grew up with 5 Percenters. Dated a few Muslims. I am very much aware than not all Arabs are Muslim and not all Muslims are Arabs. Not all Israelis are Jewish.
My point is … we control the language. We control how we want people to view us as. We control our futures. We decide to go to high school and finish. We decide if we are good enough. If you give the power to someone else to determine our value and thereby our worth … we will never be happy with how they value us. We have to claim our own worth, and ignore the continual stupidity lobbied by those who are too lazy and too ignorant to learn. We, people of color, have determined how we’re going to earn and spend our money. We determine whether we are going to let society vilify us. We determine whether or not we are going to be consumers or producers.
Historic Wrong Doings, should be a platform of what not to do today.
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No one said it I don’t call people racist unless they clearly are, so please don’t conclude you know where I am coming from when it is clear you don’t. You may indeed feel you are not giving anyone a pass, but think of it as the kid caught doing wrong. Their response is but such and such does it. Does it make what the kid did any less wrong? Will the fact that such and such did it result in less punishment for the kid?
If you read any of my post then you know the answer to that question? I don’t deal in turns of all whites because I don’t believe all whites are “evil.” I feel the same about all racial groups. I don’t nor have I ever believe skin color holds bearing on anything. Also stated in my other posts.
No you did not answer my questions but rather spoke on the wrongs of the world and in some cases tried to ask me a question in its place. I never said you said racism did not exist. I also never claimed slavery was exclusive to one group, but rather that you missed the point of the blog and in missing it you are co using on others and in a sense derailing.
I have had people in my life tell me to educate myself and it drove me to do it. I never got mad or threw a tandrum but rather sought information. I learned that you can have thirty degrees and still be ignorant. Doesnt mean you are dumb but rather you are unaware of something. You don’t know it.
It has nothing to do with skin color as I don’t know you and I cant see you over a computer. You are over reacting over things I did not say. If you did not want a response then don’t comment, but don’t be upset when someone points out wrongs in what you say.
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Correction..remove no one said it*
You chose to repeat but repeating does not equate to understanding. You may have read what I said but you still dont understand. The blog does have some obvious generalizations, but abagond has said it is not refering to all whites. Not once but several times and because many don’t get that he has started to clarify in other posts. You are not the first, so you are not the first I said this to.
You had your own point but your point was not about the point of the blog. You can talk about every hateful wrong in the world but you are still missing a key point in the blog. It just comes down to you are more focused on your point. You don’t even care what the point of the blog is as long as you hammer in yours.
What he is saying is he does not believe blacks to be as racist as whites. 1-21 is the reasons why he has that belief. It is not 21 ways people excuse it, but rather what makes them more racist. He is comparing a white racist vs a black racist and not black and whites in general.
I agree people are people and there are racist and hateful ones in each group.
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Sharina … thank you … I had read, but then I had read so many thoughts from others. So when I began to write, my brain was responding not necessarily to his post … my first time here … but to the posts of so many I had read. By the time I got to the bottom, I was annoyed.
I didn’t understand you’re question beyond me thinking only of the title and not of the written content of what had been written in the original post.
Thank you for your patience 😉
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@ stilettotreehugger
You are welcome. I know how you feel because I was the exact same way when I first commented on this blog. I will go so far as to say you are lucky because I was verbally assaulted by a white racist who belittled me from start to finish. I stood firm though. Even so I am still learning. There is so many different people on this blog with so many experiences to take from.
Some posters are white and some are asian, so be careful in assuming race. This is just one post. I suggest going to open thread and stricking up a conversation or just read through and take it in. I use to do just that before I commented.
With that said don’t be afraid to speak. Most of us don’t bite, but I would do you a great injustice if I did not acknowledge that some do. 🙂
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Welcome to the fray, stilettotreehugger.
It’s always impressive to see someone who’s intelligent enough to stop and analyze their own arguments. Most people will never do that.
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@ king
That is because most people in here are stubborn as hell. LOL!
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Haha… Yes, every except for us two 🙂 lol!
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@ Bulanik
Thank you. 🙂
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Wow … thank you guys in return!!
Sharina … was correct, I was blinded by semi-anger and wanting to get my point across … I was wrong and I can admit it. She did me a favor by showing patience and demonstrating tolerance … it slowed me down and made me reflect.
@ King … thank you for the heartfelt welcome and warning!! lol
@ Bulanik … thanks for the compliment!!
I’m a realist … I don’t want pretty rainbows being blown up my skirt because you think it’s what I want to hear!!! 🙂 … I can fall, dust myself off and get back up.
I’m happy I came across this blog … love a real conversation about genuine topics of importance.
I’m hear to share, but I’m also here to learn. Thanks Guys!!!
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1.Kidnapped millions of whites at gunpoint and sold them into slavery.
– No, but you kidnapped your fellow blacks in Africa and sold them into slavery, and continue to do so today.
3.Forced millions of whites to work for free for hundreds of years based on their race.
– The majority of whites in the United States didn’t do this to blacks. Yet, you try to blame this on all whites based on their race.
6.Raped so many white women that most whites are now part black.
– Once again, you blame an entire race for the actions of individuals. Black men rape white women. If you’re going to blame the entire white race because of the wrong actions of some individuals, then you need to blame the entire black race for the actions of black rapists.
7.Pushed a strange, racist standard of beauty on the world through the fashion and film industry.
– Ever watched a rap video of black women dancing.
8.Wanted the right of calling whites a racist slur.
– What ever, cracker
9.Even had a slur for whites that is as racist and dehumanizing as the n-word.
– What ever, cracker
11.Burned down or bombed white neighbourhoods, towns and churches.
– You have a selective knowledge of history. If it’s not OK for white people to do it to black people, then it’s equally not OK for black people to do it to white people.
14.Looked down on or hate those who are not racially pure.
– Wrong. Dark skinned blacks’ discrimination against light skinned blacks is a documented historical fact.
15.Caused high white unemployment rates through racist hiring practices – or even affirmative action.
– You’re trying
16.Regularly dehumanized white people in black mainstream culture.
– Ever watched black comedy shows? That’s what I thought.
18.Regarded speaking their dialect of English properly as a sign of intelligence.
– It is.
19.Required whites to learn black history and literature.
– You’re kidding, right? Of course you’re not. You’re just lying. Look at current social studies curriculums.
20.Based their sense of self-worth in part on looking down on whites.
– You don’t know the blacks I do.
21.Made fun of murdered white people, like by selling Nicole Simpson target practice posters or laying on the ground to act like a dead Nicole Simpson (Simpsoning).
– Guess you don’t see what black people say about white people on internet forums, or excuse it when it’s a black person saying it about a white person.
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I agree with this post.
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Only the low income ones are racist, not the ones that are educated.
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1 Peter 3:9
Do not repay evil for evil or reviling for reviling, but on the contrary, bless, for this you were called, that you may obtain a blessing.
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here’s some for the list,jew media covering up hate crimes commited by blacks.jew owned media saying and calling whites racists at every chance.jew owned media calling whites crackers on the air to discribe white people.jew owned media reporting only good stuff about offical blacks when they are seen in a bad light and only discribing whites in a bad light.jew owned media calling all white people right wing nuts and birthers along with being called racists.jew owned media remaining a far left entity with no fair and balace reporting when white people are in the frame.we as white people should never talk to the jewish owned media,not unless you prefer to be labled a racist.
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^ Hey GENE WILLIS, you have the same comma problem as Neeva… ain’t that interesting? So how many personalities do you have? There’s Neeva the “race realist” and now Gene the “Jew hater”… When do you show up as the ebonics-spouting, ignorant, Black man who exemplifies all of the White stereotypes?
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Looking at Gene’s comments, I will only say that now it’s just getting way beyond sad.
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Gene’s comments are so irrevelant and sick. She wrote down so much crap.
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@ Gene Willis
You know what is funny. When I look at the news a crime (regardless of the victim) seems to be reported in my area. Maybe you might want to try addressing your local media station next time.
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Gene Willis has been posting this kind of uhhh.. “stuff” on and off for quite sometime now. He’ll be back drunk posting in no time (at least I hope that’s what this is!).
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http://www.blackgirldangerous.org/2012/06/201211279csnr2cmsrexpoxro1f16csj18zgcy/
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Blacks Muslims took more white slaves then whites did the blacks at gun point and work the whites a lot harder then whites work the black and blacks rape whites more then white males rape black female. And yes black molest kids just as much as the whites. yes blacks are more racist to their own kind they will look up to a killing black thug then kick a good black man in his teeth and call him a Uncle Tom.their made up holiday is made up by a criminal.http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=kwanzaa
A holiday developed by a Dr. Maulana “Ron” Karenga, a black militant, Marxist, and convicted felon.
Just five years after this, he was convicted of torturing two black women to death.
you and muslims are only people that are racist. we felt sorry to send the slaves back to Africa and they also did’t want to go back to Africa because they didn’t want to co back to Muslims slave owner.The only ones that wanted to go back was the convert Muslims.
And you know black parent will teach their kids to be racist. People like you that don’t know your history are about Africa and Africans should keep their mouth shut Muslims were enslaving black Africans long before any slave ships sailed for the New World.
1 Blacks were enslave by the Muslims and had to convert to muslims and the Muslims kill million blacks and cut male nuts off and buring them in sand up till their head and the also sew black nuts on white slaves.
2 We had black and white slaves in North American the same time as whites
they live together and were made to breed together to make a stronger white male slaves because white slaves were cheaper then white slaves you don’t actual believe that fairy tail the white slave masters a special room in house just for the black maid by day and a black sex slave by night do you honesty think is wife would have put up with that.The Muslims did that not the white blacks were so brain wash by Muslims and that what the story black told after slavery what Muslims told them to tell
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Black Muslims Burned down or bombed white villages in Europe and churches.
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@Tonya
I don;t usually do this but please write a complete sentence. I don’t care about grammar but atleast something that is understandable and then I am willing to discuss the possibility of you doing some research. From past discussion I know the “whites” you are talking about, but it would be better if you did to.
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I challenge whether it can be said that black people are racist. If I punch a wall and put a hole in it but also break my hand can I also say the wall was violent because it hit back? Isn’t it a proper human reaction, in aid of self-preservation, to dislike, avoid, and even try to destroy something that will do you harm? But if we allow whites define having emotion and countering white supremacy as racism then even defensive tools are taken from our hands. Which is, of course, the very reason they try to define white racism that way. If racism is “not liking white people” then we have to like them regardless of what they do. That is not reasonable.
The truth is that the racism of whites is unique to them. This is precisely the reason why they have been so successful. The rest of the world’s people were completely caught off guard by them. White people had come to their shores with the evil intent so they comitted suicide when they offered whites the hand of friendship as most did. Our assumption that they think like us turns out to be a fatal mistake whereas their assumption that we think like them works in their favor.
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@ Tonya,
I agree with Sharina. Your statement is very incohesive as if you’re stringing many ideas together some of which lack proper context. You also come across very indignant. What is your main point?
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@bygodsloveandgrace
I have reason to believe that Tonya may in fact be a drive by dribbler. If she comes back it will be of shock to me.
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@Origin
I read your comment last night, but it was one that I had to really sit down and ponder on. Throughout history that has been the biggest mistake of POC. Believing that white people think like us. I can;t think of the guys name off the top of my head, but in his account of being black he mentioned a white guy who was homeless, dirt poor and even with him being in that current state he still had a lowly view of black people. So I agree that it is false to assume.
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Though I am still not ready to jump on the all white people bandwagon
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@Sharina,
Yep. Tonya possibly pulled what I call a rant and run! It’ll be interesting to see any response.
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It’s been over two years since I posted this comment, and still NO incidences of black people being racist towards me unlike white people.
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Yeah, well, I don’t pay attention to whites or other -whites unless what they say or do it affects me.
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*non-whites
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Kiwi,
There is some evidence that non-white non-Asian Americans sometimes treat Asian Americans as surrogate whites.
Loewen noticed that when he studied the Asian-white-black relations in Mississippi.He uncovered many blacks who preferred to shop in the Chinese-owned stores rather than black owned stores (where they were very few and struggling to make it), particularly the more middle-class or financially stable blacks. Chinese shopkeepers gave preferential treatment to them. They also had some power in deciding which black customers would get credit, and which would not. Although this behavior is more a business decision, this kind of differentiation actually helped business.
Whites differentiated among blacks too of course, but the colour line prevented that kind of social interaction from occurring often. If blacks did that kind of social differentiation, even for business reasons, they would be condemned for mimicking behavior of whites.
We saw it again during the Rodney King incident. Blacks targeted Asian American (particularly Korean American) businesses as a surrogate for the feelings regarding disenfranchisement against the White establishment. They are easier targets as their businesses are located in black neighborhoods.
We saw it again (2013) when ex-mayor councilman Marion Barry rallied against the Asian American businesses in his ward (Anacostia), requesting them to leave, and condemned them for their failure to engage the community.and making their communities “dirty”. It is no doubt, given his popularity in the community, that he is echoing the sentiment of his constituents.
But in each of these examples (and thousands of others that we can easily find), the main culprit are the white institutions that refuse to engage with the black community – the police who refuse to protect it, the banks which refuse to lend money to businesses there, etc., not to mention the promotion of the Model Minority stereotype to leave whites off the hook.
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[…] Blacks are just as racist if not more so. […]
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“Looked down on or hate those who are not racially pure.”
This is 100% true. Biracial people are never allowed to call themselves white unless they can 100% pass as white 100% of the time (i.e. Keanu Reeves, Wentworth Miller). In Amerikkka, if you aren’t white enough to join the Aryan Brotherhood in prison, you aren’t white at all and whites will never claim you. White as a true racial category is not a real thing, but rather a claim to privilege based on a broad social categorization that is subject to change every 150 years or so.
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I do not hate white people but i hate the system that gives them asymmetrical power and unlimited privilege.
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@ Mary Burrell
I second that emotion!
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@Afrofem: Happy Saturday
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what about blacks in africa “selling” their own people to the slave traders,? what about the native americans having black slaves too? what about an american president jefferson having slaves and a relationship with one yet his statue not taken down but other confederate “ones” being removed, im so sick of color being a determinant for generalized statements about behaviors, white/black/yellow/red etc so ignorant a way to describe people
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@rob
I believe all of your whataboutisms are addressed here: https://abagond.wordpress.com/broken-record-dept/
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Whataboutisms much from this rob character.
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@rob:
If I had a violin, I’d compose a concerto for you.
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