What if White Americans talked about great inventions the same way they talk about slavery?
- Invention is universal – it is not just white people who have invented things. It is common to all of mankind: Arabs, Mayans, Chinese, Egyptians, Polynesians, etc. Even manlike creatures millions of years ago invented things! So it is highly misleading to only bring up white inventors as if no one else has ever done it!
- Black people did it too! You do know that black people invented things too, right? It was not just whites!
- My family never invented anything – so I can hardly take credit for all the great inventions of the past. My family was not even in America when Bell invented the telephone and Edison invented the light bulb! And even most whites who lived in America at the time did not invent anything either!
- It is ancient history, you are living in the past – get over it! The light bulb was invented over a hundred years ago. Even the computer was invented nearly 70 years ago. It has nothing to do with the present. So why even talk about it? Get over it and move on.
- It was the times! The great inventions that made the modern world belong to a particular period of history. White people are nothing like that now.
- Inventions do not make economic sense – white people never made much money from their inventions. Gutenberg died in poverty! So it is not as if anyone alive benefits from them. Whites got to where they are through hard work and clean living, not through inventions made before anyone alive now was born.
The main difference between slavery and invention is that one is considered immoral, the other not. One was also more widely practised than the other: there were far more slave owners than inventors.
But in many ways they are the same: both helped to make America rich, a wealth it has built on and still enjoys. Both largely took place in the past and yet have shaped society in ways that affect America still.
Many whites want to claim and take pride in the good things from their past – inventions made, battles won, rights fought for, etc – but then act as if the bad things have nothing to do with them – like slavery, genocide and rights not fought for. But you cannot have it both ways.
Likewise, if the great inventions are proof of the great intelligence of whites, then slavery and genocide are proof of the great evil of whites. You cannot claim one without the other.
Or: If slavery and genocide came about through the workings of human nature under a particular set of circumstances – if anyone else would have done the same thing – then the same goes for the inventions too.
Either way history has made America what it is – it did not drop from a clear blue sky, ready-made, one afternoon in 1970 or something. It came out of a particular past that was partly good and partly evil.
See also:
Whoa, great parallel Abagond!
LikeLike
” if the great inventions are proof of the great intelligence of whites, then slavery and genocide are proof of the great evil of whites. You cannot claim one without the other.”
Oh Abagond…
Of course you can!
It’s called denial, entitlement and the American Way.
Oh, how wonderful to be white in America where you can claim as you wish, make up stories as you wish and flat out lie in the name of Puritan values as you wish.
I can’t wait to hear how whites will try to argue to the death about how you are wrong with THIS one.
Just like the mobster’s daughter analogy, this will go right over their heads.
Oh, and by the way, Lucifer never thought he was wrong either.
LikeLike
Nice one Abagond! Brilliant as usual.
LikeLike
Years before the Boppy pillow was “invented” by Susan Brown, my mom had made a similar one from scratch before my sister was born. The Boppy pillow is a C-shaped pillow used by mothers to help prop/nurse babies while feeding. I went shopping with my mom one day and we saw these Boppy pillows being sold in stores. My mom scoffed, “That white woman didn’t invent this pillow. It was already in use for many years by the mothers in my hometown in the Philippines. If I only knew now what I knew then I’d be rich.”
LikeLike
“What if White Americans talked about great inventions the same way they talk about slavery?”
******************
Brilliant.
LikeLike
Whites who focus only on their positives factual or fiction are afraid to face the possibility that they are and have been capable of destruction. So, what do they do? Flip the script. Point out how screwed up you are. Only see your faults or pull some negatives about you out of their asses. They want themselves to only be seen as good and us as bad. Them, intelligent. Us, stupid. There’s no word to describe this fractured mentality.
LikeLike
Leigh204,
Thanks for dropping that gem of information.
It shows that whites tend to want to take credit for all things great and innovative. Not some things all things, even if they were created, built, and invented by POC.
SMH.
LikeLike
@ Leigh
Thanks for sharing.
The same with bush tea / herbal medicines.
1. Yohimbe became Viagra
2. Cinnamon became Glucophage
3. Valerian root became Lunesta
4. St. John’s wort became Prozac
5. Cascara Sagrada became Metamucil
If we had only known…we’d be rich!
[NOTE that this is not a medical website and cannot vouch for the medical accuracy of its comments – Abagond]
LikeLike
@Leigh204
Thats the thing about inventions they often go to those who manage to come up with the idea and get it out there.
Its like with your mom, why didn’t she try to market it, it was useful, from the description cheap to make and nothing is mentioned about it taking a particular skill or set of circumstances to make it viable.
If she had; she would be thought of as the inventor but someone else who also come up with the idea did and marketed it as well. So they end up getting the credit.
One thing that seperates inventions from slavery though, is inventions unlike slavery are still in use today(legally anyways), cars, light bulbs etc…..and people are still inventing new things for all sorts of purposes, its not like they’ve stopped existing, I suspect most of us are reading this on a computer after all.
I mean lets be honest; if the last time any one had invented something was around 1865 we probably wouldn’t think much about them.
LikeLike
@V-4:
My mom didn’t invent this pillow. I mentioned in my comment that the mothers in her hometown have always made these pillows for their babies for years before Susan Brown “invented” it. It didn’t dawn on my mother that she should market it. The pillows have always been…there.
LikeLike
My grandfather worked for ITT back in the 50s and 60s as an engineer developing satellite technology for military application. He and his brothers were all IQ tested at the 160-170 range and my grandfather had a true love for mathematics. He helped solve problems for the company that no one else could. They gave him a nice salary, his own office and a White secretary (my grandmother used to tease him about that). My point is, so many White people assume everything that these corporations invent is done by White scientists and engineers. This is false. Many Black scientist aren’t given the spotlight in such companies and most go unrewarded for their efforts. But they are still there! If they weren’t, many people Black and White might not have the luxuries they enjoy today.
LikeLiked by 1 person
good post again! The thing is, white America can claim anything it wants! It has the god given right to do so! It says so in the bible! It is on tv! In the news! Yeah…
@leigh: That is truly the american way!
The thing is not if you invent something or not, it is about who gets the patent first. US companies and business people have done it for ages. They see an idea, invention, something which is common somewhere else, go back home, patent it and claim the rights. After that they become the inventors and OWNERS of the said product, no matter how many centuries it has been used by other people in their culture.
The most extreme example of this white american OWNERSHIP ideology comes from Bolivia. Californian water company made a deal with the (very corrupt at that time) bolivian government (for how much, nobody knows) which gave all the water rights of one valley (forgot the name, Cochabamba??) for them. Before this the local people had been getting their water for free or next to nothing since there are streams and rivers all over the place. To put it simply, nobody owned the water which belonged to all.
Calfornian water company claimed ownership to all water resources in the area and started to extort money from the population based on that. ALL water in the valley became a propety, a commodity for which the locals had to pay for this american company, simply because they OWNED the water now.
Well, the locals started to collect the rain water instead of paying this american company some ridicilous money for water which had been there for ever, litterally. Guess what the company did? Right. They sued the population. On what grounds? According to the company the locals were stealing from them when they collected the rain water!! True story! 😀
Another american innovation: patenting exercising! Just make one training programme for the gym, patent it and everybody has to pay you for doing those moves which have been used since the days of Perikles at least! They have really tried this, I am not joking!! 😀
PS. Neither have been successful. But these two examples just show what is it all about. It is not about who invents, but who gets the ownership and thus claim it for oneself. Just look at how these guys talk about the powder: Yeah, chinese came up with it but it was the white man who knew what to do with it! Like, use it in guns and for general destruction and killing.
LikeLike
@Leigh204
I wasn’t saying that your mom invented; I was meaning to say if she marketed it she would have gotten credit for it.
That people who both invent and market things, ideas etc….get credit for things that may have been invented elsewhere but the idea had never gotten around.
@Brothawolf
I don’t think Leigh204 is saying that it was stolen from them, just that wasn’t the first person to come up with it and that it had actually been around for awhile in the village her mother had come from.
While this is a good post; that as I stated before it ignores that ultimately we still either use the inventions or the resulting products as created from them.
We still make guns, lightbulbs etc…..but nobody today practices slavery on any legal level.
If this was a statement more about generalized racism vs specifically slavery it would have worked better.
LikeLike
Hey, Abagond you forget: Black people did it too!
LikeLike
@ Teddy.
Thanks. I added that one.
LikeLike
V-4,
I never said that it was stolen. What I was saying was that there are whites that take credit for creations build or made by POC. Some of them wholeheartedly believe that no one else except whites had invented or achieved anything throughout mankind’s existence.
LikeLiked by 1 person
@ V-4
Sure, whites are still inventing things, but this is about how whites play up certain parts of their past and not others, creating a misleading picture of themselves, making them seem better than they are.
Also whites still benefit from slavery. It helped to build the nation, to underwrite industrialization, etc. Even today working-class white households are still wealthier on average than even middle-class black ones. That advantage is material and did not come from out of nowhere. The present-day racism which benefits whites comes straight out of slavery – just as their way of providing electric power comes from the inventions of Westinghouse. And just as Americans still use light bulbs, they still use blacks as cheap labour. None of this stuff is some kind of accident. It all comes out of a past.
Whites want to believe that their slave-owning past has no effect on the present when in fact the effect has been profound. It has made them richer than they would have been – and also much more racist. It STILL shapes how they look at the world.
LikeLike
Well, Brothawolf, this does remind me of that Japanese fashion designer, who thought that everything he saw in Africa on a black bodywas traditional and could be copied, of course when he was doing that with expensive copyrighted designs made in Europe for the African markets (mind the plural), he got sued big.
Ok, Japanese might not be white, but it is a demonstration of the Western mindset, that whatever you see in the possession of “black” Africans can be copied without having to worry about copyright. This time it was an error, but unfortunately, most often it is not.
LikeLike
Truthbetold, Iwas involved a bit with a lecture on the good and bad of medicinal plants last thursday, by a pharmacology university Professor (and doctor and engineer). And there is more to it than that, much more.
The extraction, the testing, the synthesis…
Making marketable medicine out of plants is NOT easy, the effect of willow is as nothing compared to asperin.
LikeLike
Nice post.
LikeLike
“My family never invented anything” – I laughed so hard at this one. Great work!
LikeLike
Abagond,
When someone inquires about your family history, do you make sure that you give them “equal” part good family history and “equal” part bad family history?
If not, WHAT IS YOUR REAL BEEF?
Quit toying around.
LikeLike
@ Thordaddy
We are not talking about family histories but the history of the whole country and how it is told in ways that makes whites seem better than they are, thereby supporting white racism.
LikeLike
Abagond,
When you recount your family history do you make it seem better than it really is and does this perpetuate the idea that your family is better than others?
Or, as I asked before, do you provide “equal” parts good and “equal” parts bad so as to not indicate any kind of superiority over other families?
LikeLike
@ Katelin
I believe I deleted one of your comments by accident. My apologies.
LikeLike
@sam and leigh204
Both of you bring really good points that supplement Abagond’s entry. I’d venture to say that if greed, fear, and other things weren’t the driving forces behind this, we’d either not need paper currencies or the so-called Dow Jones average would be pushing 6-7 figures…makes you wonder!
LikeLike
@ Thordaddy
That is a bad analogy:
1. My family’s history is no one’s business.
2. I do not act as if my family is better than anyone else’s. Nor is it trumpeted in history books as the height of mankind.
LikeLike
Morning all,
Aba, I saw the disclaimer on herbs…thanks for adding that.
I just read some comments and the denial and skirting around the issue is remarkable. I’ve never seen such hypocrisy.
The jist of this post is; you take all the good you’ve done with all the bad you’ve done. I believe the reason why some whites will REFUSE to see this is: white guilt mixed with moral blindness with a sprinkle of denial.
Serve with ice and enjoy!
P.S to a certain commenter:
Bringing up someone’s PERSONAL history to throw it in their face is a low blow, even for you.
LikeLike
@ Sam
Good points. I’d like to add that Mosanto, DuPont and other transnational “chemical” corporations have already patented more than half of the known plant species.
If that’s not bad enough, these companies are genetically modifying vegetation solely for the sake of control/power, greed/profits over food production. Genetic tampering with natural food does not bode well for humanity. The long term NEGATIVE effects of this – playing God – are calamitous.
*Just another example of the white-supremacy (CONTROL) mindset at work!*
LikeLike
@V-4:
I spoke with my mom just now and I asked her why she didn’t market the baby nursing pillow from the beginning. She said in her native tongue, “What? And have my people think I should take credit for something that didn’t belong to me in the first place? All the mothers in our hometown and the mothers before them deserve credit; not only me.” That’s my mother for you.
LikeLike
“That white woman didn’t invent this pillow. It was already in use for many years by the mothers in my hometown in the Philippines”
Are you equating a pillow to the moon landing?
LikeLike
@ everyone
The scars we bear from our past, both as oppressors and the oppressed, have burdened us for a lifetime.
As blacks and other people of colour, we have NOT moved on because we are unable to do so, partly due to our own damage and partly due to the damage whites have inflicted on us.
Slavery was an evil.
No excuse or rationale can ever make what was done right here on U.S. soil right. No amout of reparations can make it right either.
What about the generations of lost lives, opportunities and indignities?
Don’t they count for something?
Whites are tired of us bring it up for a couple of reasons:
1. They feel that because they had nothing to do with it PERSONALLY, it’s not their problem.
2. Many feel a guilt, that perhaps, we will never understand, the kind that causes a destruction of the mind and soul. Which would you rather have guilt (white) or rage (black) ?
3. They feel helpless. Why are we pestering them? What did they do? Why can’t we just stop talking about it already? “How much money do I have to pay you for you to leave me alone?”
4. Many are secretly happy.
Yes, I know that comes as a shock.
Happiness at someone’s pain is sociopathic behaviour, no?
But I know many whites that lord that terrible time over us in triumph.
And sleep like a baby at the thought of us hanging from trees.
Most whites will never admit their wrong doings. They will never take the responsibility for their wicked past for which they continue to benefit.
That would mean that pulling yourself up by your bootstraps isn’t true.
That would mean that they’re not morally good.
That would mean that they’re not smart or superior or brave in combat or good, decent, hardworking, clean, honest people.
It would make them no better than being black.
LikeLike
“Are you equating a pillow to the moon landing?”
@ Dr. G.
Are you equating yourself with rocket scientists?
LikeLike
@ JT:
Yes, he refers himself as a “doctor” after all. 😀
LikeLike
Abagond,
It’s not a bad analogy at all.
Is it abnormal for the white American majority to emphasize their accomplishments and downplay their failures?
Is this wicked in your mind?
LikeLike
@ Leigh
LOL I thought that was like the “Dr”. of Diet Dr. Pepper. Sarah Palin’s favorite drink! 🙂
LikeLike
@Thor
If it’s wicked, then the majority of the world is indeed wicked, as downplaying failures at someone elses leisure is not restricted to skin colour. But I assume according to Abagond whites do it far more and therefor are far more evil but eh.
@Truth
“And sleep like a baby at the thought of us hanging from trees.”
Yes, It’s always nice when PoC continue to play along the lines of “we the victims” but never rising up. Face it, without the victim card you’d have no identity, and no purpose. I guess It’s better to have a voice and rant about the evil doings of the white men instead of coming to terms with reality and being silenced.
@Abagond
“Many whites want to claim and take pride in the good things from their past – inventions made, battles won, rights fought for, etc – but then act as if the bad things have nothing to do with them – like slavery, genocide and rights not fought for. But you cannot have it both ways”
I agree, you can’t have it both ways, but at the same time there must be a compromise. What do you suggest? People already know slavery was a bad stain on the history of white people, and history alone.. no one is denying that. But it’s better to stay silent rather than reopen something so sensitive as slavery. Do you think whites enjoy talking about it? Do you think blacks enjoy talking about it? (probably to condemn ofcourse but besides that do they?)
At what point would you feel that how the history of slavery is viewed is acceptable to you and not “distorted”?
Now, I’m not trying to bash your views or anything, I’m just interested in your view of this. As you said yourself before whites do indeed tend to disregard some parts of history that would paint them in a different brush, but at the same time you don’t seem to point to any direction in how to fix it.
LikeLike
“”Yes, It’s always nice when PoC continue to play along the lines of “we the victims” but never rising up. Face it, without the victim card you’d have no identity, and no purpose. I guess It’s better to have a voice and rant about the evil doings of the white men instead of coming to terms with reality and being silenced.””
@ Yawn
That was ironic.
Blacks have a boundless culture that is more dynamic, rigorous, eternal and vibrant than whites could ever dare to dream. Goes the same with other POC. This often leads whites like you and the millions of others to throw shade on them or steal their ideas.
For me yawn’s (how “appropo” of a name – fits my bodily response when i read this tripe) comment is reprehensible.
LikeLike
@Yawn:
“Face it, without the victim card you’d have no identity, and no purpose.”
Face it, without the inventor/subjugator card you’d have no identity and no purpose.
LikeLike
@JT
“Blacks have a boundless culture that is more dynamic, rigorous, eternal and vibrant than whites could ever dare to dream. Goes the same with other POC. This often leads whites like you and the millions of others to throw shade on them or steal their ideas.
For me yawn’s (how “appropo” of a name – fits my bodily response when i read this tripe) comment is reprehensible.”
“Whites like you” huh, how befitting of someone to judge me based on what they preceive as my race. I considered myself neutral when it comes to race debate, I side with no one. Also, I never said anything related to culture, I’m just saying what is apparant with most of Truths responses, it’s nothing but word play based on playing the victim card. I don’t believe perceiving yourself as being hanged in tree by whites to be a heathy viewpoint or assuming most whites would want to hang you.
“Blacks have a boundless culture that is more dynamic, rigorous, eternal and vibrant than whites could ever dare to dream”
I disagree, anyone of any race/color has a vibrant culture that should not be put before anyone elses but it seems you belive otherwise.
@Nom
“Face it, without the inventor/subjugator card you’d have no identity and no purpose.”
Nice reversal, you do know that’s kind of childish as I wasn’t joking in my post nor am I trolling.
LikeLike
1. They feel that because they had nothing to do with it PERSONALLY, it’s not their problem.
They have created a sociopathic society, which has inculcated every aspects of their lives. Black concerns are an irritant, nothing more. Most couldn’t give two shi+s about blacks or other racialized people. Besides which they see us as being better off since slavery ended. The European immigrants who arrived since slavery ended, love the fact that they can call on their own history of oppression and their subsequent social success as overcoming these prejudices. In other words, what is wrong with those Negroes. It is all interconnected with the other types of derisive arguments they throw at you.
Point # 2. You see they don’t feel any guilt as they are sociopathic in nature. North American society is also blame oriented. All sort of behaviours are pathologized. Therefore, no-one takes responsibility for wicked acts, they prefer to lay it at the door of some pathology;in other words, it isn’t their fault. Hence they can say that ‘slavery had nothing to do with them’. They are oblivious and just plain don’t care as to the why or where to fore as to why things are the way they are. They plain just don’t give a shi=!
Point #3. They feel helpless. Why are we pestering them? What did they do? Why can’t we just stop talking about it already? “How much money do I have to pay you for you to leave me alone?”
No they don’t feel helpless. Like I wrote above, blacks are nothing but an irritant to them. Try to recall some of the comments from these white racist posters. They claim that they like blacks who are athletes, musicians or tolerable actors. They find it laughable that we should want reparations, although they will compensate wrongfully imprisoned people today.
4. Many are secretly happy.
Their clarion call is “At least I am not a ni%%er! You see, you have to have empathy in order to sympathize with others’ plight. They do not possess this unless it is something that makes them feel good about themselves. This is why they can send billions of dollars to foreign countries but consistently vote against their own interest at home and let poor people in their own country suffer ingnominy.
LikeLike
I don’t believe perceiving yourself as being hanged in tree by whites to be a heathy viewpoint or assuming most whites would want to hang you.”””
@ yawn.
When are you going to learn that it is not important what you think. Literally. You have $hit-all when it comes to historical or modern grievance, directly via in contemporary society or indirectly via your ancestors.
Fact one.
So what do you count for? The brave voice of “reason.” What reason? Where does reason play out to in everyday society. The fact of the matter is that this world is run by emotion. There are those that try to negate their emotions and there are those that embrace them, and integrate them into a manner of survival and intelligence.
Fact two.
One brand Is utter dishonesty and hypocracy. The other is wisdom and sincerity. You can be dismissed as the former. Because you sure as h#ck aren’t the latter.
Fact three.
Now sit down, fool.
LikeLike
@matari:
Yes, those are going to be worst of the worst in near future. They already have forced those farmers out who refuse to use their seeds, whose lands are next to those which are using their products because there might be transmutation via airways. Not funny at all. I know that some companies have been toying with the idea of patenting the air, that is, making claims that their ingredients are improwing air in certain areas and therefore they can patent the air since it is no longer “a natural phenomena” and then send the bills to everyone breathing. Where this is going to go untill we all get enough?
@yawn:
“I considered myself neutral when it comes to race debate, I side with no one.”
Yes you do. You defend the white americans and critize the blacks who “play the victim card”.
LikeLike
@JT
“I don’t believe perceiving yourself as being hanged in tree by whites to be a heathy viewpoint or assuming most whites would want to hang you.”””
@ yawn.
When are you going to learn that it is not important what you think. Literally. You have $hit-all when it comes to historical or modern grievance, directly via in contemporary society or indirectly via your ancestors.
Fact one.
So what do you count for? The brave voice of “reason.” What reason? Where does reason play out to in everyday society. The fact of the matter is that this world is run by emotion. There are those that try to negate their emotions and there are those that embrace them, and integrate them into a manner of survival and intelligence.
Fact two.
One brand Is utter dishonesty and hypocracy. The other is wisdom and sincerity. You can be dismissed as the former. Because you sure as h#ck aren’t the latter.
Fact three.
Now sit down, fool.”
Hmm, It seems unless you’re agreeing with the said post by Abagond, and noding your head in sync your opinion isn’t wanted nor waranted to you.
“Fact one.
So what do you count for? The brave voice of “reason.” What reason? Where does reason play out to in everyday society. The fact of the matter is that this world is run by emotion. There are those that try to negate their emotions and there are those that embrace them, and integrate them into a manner of survival and intelligence.
Fact two.
One brand Is utter dishonesty and hypocracy. The other is wisdom and sincerity. You can be dismissed as the former. Because you sure as h#ck aren’t the latter.”
I agree, and I’m one who negates my emotions as my emotions would surely lead me to give bias opinions. I’m not being dishonest, nor am I being a hypocrite.
“Fact three.
Now sit down, fool”
No thanks, as you yourself blantantly stated “When are you going to learn that it is not important what you think.”
I think someone should reverb with their own opinion, as the door swings both ways.
But again, eh you don’t bother me with your defensiveness. I find it interesting.
LikeLike
@yawn:
“I considered myself neutral when it comes to race debate, I side with no one.”
Yes you do. You defend the white americans and critize the blacks who “play the victim card”.
#####
@ Sam
Yeah, honestly: who is he trying to fool? Haha. What a maroon.
LikeLike
@Sam
“Yes you do. You defend the white americans and critize the blacks who “play the victim card”
No, as I do not know the race of anyone on this blog, I don’t keep track of it nor do I personally see a need for it.
If I’m defending a viewpoint, it’s merely because I want to see what Abagond’s viewpoint on a compromise and or ultimate goal is.
That’s what I stated perviously to him at what point would the history of slavery (changed ofcouse) become something acceptable instead of something whites are distorting “to make themselves feel better”.
LikeLike
@ yawn,
But again, you respond immediately and dedicate your “precious” (Ha!) time to the art of crafting responses to Abagond’s work. Clearly, this does bother you.
But again, you have missed what i said entirely. You are saturated with emotion. Yet, you are dishonest with your handling of them. You purport to offer an unclouded point of view but you are as clouded as anyone here if not more. You are entirely flooded by your emotion but in denial and therefore you feel the tension build up and the response just flow out of you:
[QUOTE]Face it, without the victim card you’d have no identity, and no purpose. I guess It’s better to have a voice and rant about the evil doings of the white men instead of coming to terms with reality and being silenced.[/QUOTE]
Imagine if someone said that to you: Would you consider them (without an emotion driven goal) amotivated?
You are the epitome of emotional hypocrit.
LikeLike
@Sam
Also, “critize the blacks”.
I don’t criticize the blacks, nor do I criticize PoC in my daily life as I am not subjected to how their lives are. But to the same tune can you honestly say that most of what truth says is common? That whites wish to see PoC hang from trees, or as I think it was truth who said it also “They’d rather walk with another white man into hell then walk with a black man to heaven”
I mean, I can understand some WN fool spouting such stuff about poc, but this .. and almost constantly with every post.
LikeLike
@ yawn:
” Yes, It’s always nice when PoC continue to play along the lines of “we the victims” but never rising up. Face it, without the victim card you’d have no identity, and no purpose. I guess It’s better to have a voice and rant about the evil doings of the white men instead of coming to terms with reality and being silenced.”
Amazing.
Simply amazing.
Without the victim card we’d have no identity, eh?
Dear chap, it is YOU that has no identity without the colour of your skin.
Blacks and people of colour have identity.
It’s called SURVIVORS.
No matter what you have thrown at us, we SURVIVE.
We THRIVE.
We lift ourselves up from the brink of darkness every damn day…at the office, in the stores, in our neighborhoods, with the police…everyday…and live DESPITE all you throw at us!
I suspect that tomorrow morning, if you woke up ” one of us “, you’d lose your damn mind!
And rant, do we?
” come to terms with reality, eh?”
Let me tell you what is real.
Shut up and listen good, fool. I’m teaching you something here.
Real is being employed in a market where we are unemployable.
Real is caring for your family and trying to keep them safe…from the police who wish to destroy us.
Real is having the guts to get an education despite the suspicion that you will not be offered a job and be up to your eyeballs in debt!
Real is having been torn down, beaten down, spat upon and told, over and over again that you’d never amount to anything…and somehow, we’re still standing!!!
You know what?
It took me the latter part of my life to realize , this but most whites have a weakness of the mind, body and spirit that I do not envy for all the money in the world.
Come to terms with THAT.
LikeLike
@ yawn:
” Now, I’m not trying to bash your views or anything, I’m just interested in your view of this. As you said yourself before whites do indeed tend to disregard some parts of history that would paint them in a different brush, but at the same time you don’t seem to point to any direction in how to fix it.”
” Fixing it ” should be left up to the ones that ” caused it.”
We’ve ( people of colour) have fixed it all we can.
LikeLike
@yawn:
“I don’t criticize the blacks,”
Yes you do. You critize them for using the victim card and not getting over with their history, slavery etc. You critize them for making statements about the condition of white americans, white american system, and white racism.
I have not seen you critize any whites though and this way I understandably see you taking the opposite side. Your stand is in line with the other “critical” white americans here so it is only natural to assume you are one of them. If you were not then why you are so upset about the “claims” made by the black men over here?
LikeLike
@ Herneith
I deleted one of your comments by mistake. Sorry. You can repost it.
LikeLike
@ thordaddy
Of course it is not “abnormal” because White Americans define “normal” as whatever most of them do, no matter how screwed up, sociopathic, cold-hearted or evil it is. Anything “different” from their “normal” is abnormal and screwed up by definition.
LikeLike
@ Yawn
When whites can get to the place where they see that they are no better or worse than blacks, where they can take the idea of reparations seriously, then they will probably also be in a place where they have a serious understanding of their history.
LikeLike
@Sam
Where did I specifically target blacks saying their playing the victim card? Want to keep putting words in my mouth?
I specifically said truth was playing the victim card, because in almost every post it’s nothing but “whites this, whites that” “Whites, whites, whites!” As If it’s whites vs everyone else.
And I never said they’re using the victim card and not getting over their history, slavery. What I stated was HOW can slavery be changed as to make it acceptable enough for Abagond (blacks in general) where it’s not resulting in lopesidedness (Making whites better than they are, making PoC see lower than whites, etc). From what I can tell, and I agree, whites do in fact skew the history of the country, whether it be to keep nationalism alive, or to keep whites in the spotlight and make their atrocities seem less than what it is. But I’ve yet to see any concreate reasoning as to how to fix it, or any way for a compromise.
And I’ve never criticized whites? What would you like me to say? They invaded NA and raped and murdered the natives, I acknowledge that fact.
I’ve acknowledged in a different thread that racism is still alive and well in society, but that I personally can not change it myself, as I’m just one voice against thousands. I despise stereotypes of people, and I despise treating people differently in generally.
I see moronic WNs, spouting utter garbage about people of different colour/race and for what? To hold on to some notion that America/Canada are some sort of White country? Utter stupidity.But I also acknowledge that the window is not one way, and that PoC also spout such stuff also (though less minor, and often with reason)
@Truth
I agree, whites need to accept the things they can not hide nor change about their history. Until both parties (whites mostly) open up to compromise and see each other as human beings and not just as a colour, this will not change.
But as I said, their needs to be compromise. As I stated history is skewed, again whether it’s for nationalism (as Abagond posted somewhere) or just in generally to keep whites guilt-free of the crimes they’ve commited in the past you can’t have one without the other. Nations all over the world hide some of their atrocities or downright deny it, America is no different, as it was a white colony and today whites still hold the majority of power. What I want to know is, how can whites change whats written about slavery (and everything else) to the point where everyone is satisfied? I doubt everyone with be happy with the results.
LikeLike
@Abagond
“When whites can get to the place where they see that they are no better or worse than blacks, where they can take the idea of reparations seriously, then they will probably also be in a place where they have a serious understanding of their history.”
I see, and I agree with you. I wish for this to happen someday. That’s all I wanted to know, I won’t derail you’re insightful post anymore with responses.
Keep up the work.
LikeLike
@ yawn
Tell me why my statements have angered you so?
Is it because I’ve said something false?
Yawn, compromise is something we’ve done for over 450 years.
We are tired of compromise.
We want change.
We want accountability.
And we want to be seen and treated with due respect, not because of our skin but because we are respectable.
And no, happiness isn’t in the cards for the future.
Something that struck me as telling is the visceral way you responded, as if I personally attacked you by telling my side of the story.
This is known as The White Trait. The inability to be held accountable.
The truth is so painful.
On both sides of the story.
Are there blacks who don’t try? Yes.
Commit crimes? Yes.
Try to live off the system? Yes.
The difference is, we are not trying to DENY any of this. We’ve had many, many discussion about black-on-black crime, love, etc.
We don’t want to sweep anything under the rug.
Just honest, brutal discussion. And for me, it does help me to understand this crazy world I’m apart of.
You can be apart of it if you desire. Just don’t tell us that what we are feeling is wrong.
LikeLike
“Nations all over the world hide some of their atrocities or downright deny it, America is no different…”
*********************************
*Here we go AGAIN with the typical white responses..*
Which nations would those be? France, Belgium, Portugal, Spain, England, Finland, Ireland, Austria, Italy, Australia, Sweden …
Well Yawn, America is very different! Americans/WHITES are unique when it comes to seeking collective redemption. They don’t!
Americans make up and teach a glorified history. They hardly admit to any wrong doing. They certainly won’t pay any form of reparations. Won’t ask for forgiveness. Won’t stop being racist. Won’t stop their denial. Won’t stop making war against non-white people. Won’t stop their trying to control and run the whole planet.
Just won’t/can’t stop yourselves..
LikeLike
@Truth
“Something that struck me as telling is the visceral way you responded, as if I personally attacked you by telling my side of the story.
This is known as The White Trait. The inability to be held accountable.”
This is what angers me, when people decide to place labels on me when they feel it suits them, you just did it, as did JT when he said “whites like you” as did herneith when I stated I consider myself white, but realisitically I’m mixed (white/native) and was told I’m a whitey with a dole of native.
Why is it, when I say something that’s against the core view of some of you, I’m instantly seen as “oh look at this white guy here!”?
I’m just here trying to understand and empathize with Abagonds posts, but as someone who has not lived his life in his shoes, I often have trouble seeing his true meaning. When I posted about your response, what angered me was the fact that most (not all) of your responses seem to want to guilt me into the fact I have white skin and are therefor different, I over-reacted and I apologize.
Can you blame me? I don’t perceive things as some of you do, but at the same time It’s not like I’m trying to be disrespectful, I just get tired of seeing the same theatrics everything I come here.
@Abagond
I apologize again, this is my last response.
LikeLike
Abagond,
I’m not sure I follow you?
Who should define normal IN AMERICA if not the American white majority that ACTUALLY LOVES America with all its accomplishments and flaws?
It sounds like you “believe” that a self-annihilating, alienated and liberated minority should define what’s “normal.”
Silly. Unprecedented. Irrational.
LikeLike
” …american white majority that ACTUALLY LOVES America with all its accomplishments and flaws?”
WOW.
People of colour do not hate America.
We have a clear viewpoint of what America stands for.
It’s not a childlike love that is flawless and perfect like the one most white Americans have but an adult one that sees the good, the bad and the ugly.
That in itself, is the difference.
LikeLike
@truthbetold
Thordaddy and company are stuck in the American mythology. They LOVED the history they learned in elementary school. The Chris Columbus “discovered” America rendition. Or that slavery was an economic system that started in other places but that the colonial populations participated in to develop America. Or that Manifest Destiny is a sane and logical extension of the drive to continue settling the west and improve the conditions of those inhabiting the territory.
ETC. ETC. ETC.
Watch Sarah Palin’s CPAC 2012 speech and you have a taste of the alternative universe these people are living in.
LikeLike
Truth be told, I don’t expect the “liberationists” to give much of an answer as to who should write American history or who should define “normal” in America. In fact, the “liberationist” is actually quite averse to defining things. It’s oppressive. It’s an impediment to one’s autonomy. In being forced to answer such questions as to who defines America, the “liberationist” is rather mum.
LikeLike
@ Thordaddy
“Who defines America”
Do you see any danger in coming to an answer to that simplified question?
LikeLike
JT,
It’s far more dangerous to hold on to the nonsensical idea that ANYONE can and should be able to define America and what an American is or isn’t..
But you’re a radical liberal and so this will make absolutely no sense to you.
LikeLike
These answers are highly illustrative, at no point did anyone actually address my question. Celebrating your technological achievements would be like celebrating a drawing done by a 5-year old.
JT
“Are you equating a pillow to the moon landing?”
@ Dr. G.
Are you equating yourself with rocket scientists?
on Mon 20 Feb 2012 at 19:01:45leigh204
@ JT:
@ Dr. G.
Are you equating yourself with rocket scientists?
Yes, he refers himself as a “doctor” after all.
on Mon 20 Feb 2012 at 19:45:15JT
@ Leigh
LOL I thought that was like the “Dr”. of Diet Dr. Pepper. Sarah Palin’s favorite drink!
LikeLike
@ JT
You know what scares me? It’s not Sarah Palin or such company that spew lies.
It’s the American white population that eats it up!
Sometimes I feel as though I may go mad.
Why on earth would sound, reasonable minded, educated people believe such things and take it to heart?
Why believe all the lies about inventions and discoveries and greatness when there is overwhelming evidence of the opposite?
I think that’s the reason why I get worked up…I don’t understand the denial.
Is it evil? Does it run in ones veins?
Brainwashing so profound, it takes center stage within your cerebral cortex?
What if someone showed you time and time again the truth and you still can’t get it? What is it? Mental defect?
LikeLike
This site is a black fantasy, tell puffing up lies to each other, false reality site.
LikeLike
Abagond–
Slavery was not considered immoral by by far most during most of history and during most the time that white people practiced it, from the classical Greco Romans, to when slavery began in mid 1600’s America. It was considered wrong in western Europe (not so much Russia and other parts of eastern Europe) to enslave fellow Europeans who were born Christians, but as to whether other peoples of other religions could be enslaved was another matter. Europeans tended to have much higher opinions of Amerindians than they did of ssAfricans, and so had a much more favorable view towards taking the later as slaves. Although it’s also true that Africans were offered by other Africans as slave trade goods when the Portuguese first sailed down to ssAfrica in the mid 1400’s, whereas that didn’t tend to happen with Amerindians. In fact the first Portuguese (which were the first European traders of African slaves) at first used their relatively big ocean going ships to more efficiently move slaves from one Muslim slave trading entrepot generally further south, to ones further north on Africa’s west coast. It was a well established trade dating from centuries earlier; the Portuguese at first just offered cheaper and faster transport to the north.
There was very limited demand for black slaves in western Europe as house servants. Europe was well populated with both serfs and with smarter and better looking serfs only too eager to trade up to the easier life of being domestic servants. The fast depopulating due to disease tropical islands of the Caribbean, and after stumbling upon it in a storm the Portuguese colony of Brazil, did however present large markets for sugar cane farming slaves.
This is unknowledgeable rubbish. Yeah Guttenberg did go bankrupt and die in poverty, basically because there was no intellectual property protection back then and his invention was stolen and copied from him, but a great many inventors have made tons of money from their inventions. Edison certainly did. James Watt did as well. Most of those since him who have made major inventions have done very well financially.
Actually one of the reasons the Industrial Revolution may have started in England is that it had one of the most protective to inventors patent system in the world at that time. It was to get better.
As Lawrence Astor, a Jew turned Christian but still very ethnically supportive and self indentified with Jews, has said:
http://www.amnation.com/vfr/archives/019843.html
I will note that I’ve never felt any of this guilt myself, but I certainly have observed the lefty whites with usually kinda dim black cheerleading, efforts to engender it, with some considerable success among the college educated and propagandized these days.
LikeLike
Sam–
The fault here is clearly that of the Bolivian government. The California company was acting heartlessly, but it’s the Bolivian government’s job to protect their people, not that of a market economy American company.
This scenario was actually featured in one recent James Bond film.
LikeLike
Abagond—
The former is utter rubbish. Slavery and subsequent black-white relations have been an important issue in American politics and society, but hardly made America what it is. American laissez faire freedom, representative democracy, white self reliant and highly inventive and intelligent culture, and strong sense of national (largely white) purpose are what made America what it is today. Blacks have probably been a net negative.
LikeLike
@ Truthbetold
A quotation from MLK Jr. that i found recently. It has helped me understood this type of situation that we still confront almost 50 years later.
“Nonviolent direct action seeks to create such a crisis and foster such a tension that a community which has constantly refused to negotiate is forced to confront the issue…Just as Socrates felt that it was necessary to create a tension in the mind so that individuals could arise from the bondage of myths and half-truths to the unfettered realm of creative analysis and objective appraisal, so must we see the need for nonviolent gadflies to create the kind of tension in society that will help men rise from the dark depths of prejudice and racism to the majestic heights of understanding and brotherhood.”
-“Letter from Birmingham Jail”, April 16, 1963
LikeLike
And a-way we go!!
LikeLike
@ everyone,
Thank God! The voice of reason has returned to us! Doug1 is here to shed more truth about how Whites have been the sole proprietors of American glory and prosperity.
*Smirks*
LikeLike
I’m done for tonight, folks.
My strength has been zapped.
LikeLike
@JT:
The ignorant, so-called “doctor” doesn’t realize the significance of this pillow, Even though this pillow was credited to Susan Brown and similar pillows have already existed in other parts of the world before she “invented” it, it’s the most sought after baby product in the US. So it’s not the moon landing; try telling the countless mothers the pillow isn’t very useful with fussy, nursing babies.
http://www.usatoday.com/money/companies/management/2006-01-08-brown-usat_x.htm
LikeLike
Well, what should white people do? Cash reparations in some lump sum payment to each each individual Black person, some modern update of 40 acres and a mule? Aside from the window of time for the feasibility of that having slammed shut long ago, plenty of the recipients would end up broke again in a very short time, demanding another handout. Gov’t programs aimed at historically Black communities in the form of affordable housing or enterprise zones? That money ends up in the hands of some politically connected individuals and never reaches the community. Being soft on crime? Who really suffers more from Black crime–white people or Black people? I don’t see any kind of bucking up or self-determination just complaining about white people or wallowing in the hip hop ghetto bloodbath of guns, drugs, death and human misery. I see it the Point Breeze neighborhood of South Philly, a neighborhood without a decent supermarket. The hated white people who are moving into the neighborhood started a food co-op to remedy this. The Blacks are demanding that SOMEBODY better give “the community” a supermarket. The food co-op is up and running and the supermarket remains unbuilt as does the somebody who supposed to build it.
LikeLike
@ Leigh,
No surprise there that they would try and invalidate a LIFE-CHANGING invention for billions of women and infants. SMH!!!
@ Jay,
Your job, along with the rest, is to learn from the people here, in your community, and elsewhere what it means to be Black in America. Unless you recognize that you are essentially ignorant to this, every solution/direction you try to provide will just smack us in the face with how intellectually regressed and dishonest you are.
LikeLike
Jay from Philly,
Well, what should white people do? Cash reparations in some lump sum payment to each each individual Black person, some modern update of 40 acres and a mule? Aside from the window of time for the feasibility of that having slammed shut long ago, plenty of the recipients would end up broke again in a very short time, demanding another handout. Gov’t programs aimed at historically Black communities in the form of affordable housing or enterprise zones? That money ends up in the hands of some politically connected individuals and never reaches the community. Being soft on crime? Who really suffers more from Black crime–white people or Black people? I don’t see any kind of bucking up or self-determination just complaining about white people or wallowing in the hip hop ghetto bloodbath of guns, drugs, death and human misery. I see it the Point Breeze neighborhood of South Philly, a neighborhood without a decent supermarket. The hated white people who are moving into the neighborhood started a food co-op to remedy this. The Blacks are demanding that SOMEBODY better give “the community” a supermarket. The food co-op is up and running and the supermarket remains unbuilt as does the somebody who supposed to build it.
What the hell does this have to do with the topic? Can someone please tell me if I miss something here. For that matter, why should I care what some lonely white male says when all he has on his mind apparently is how f*cked up black people are?
Anyway, Teddy,
Well, Brothawolf, this does remind me of that Japanese fashion designer, who thought that everything he saw in Africa on a black bodywas traditional and could be copied, of course when he was doing that with expensive copyrighted designs made in Europe for the African markets (mind the plural), he got sued big.
Ok, Japanese might not be white, but it is a demonstration of the Western mindset, that whatever you see in the possession of “black” Africans can be copied without having to worry about copyright. This time it was an error, but unfortunately, most often it is not.
Yea. This goes along with what I was saying with some whites. I’ve heard some of them wholeheartedly believe they created virtually everything including the pyramids in Egypt.
One white woman on Youtube stated how black people never invented anything and what they did created was used by tools made by whites. It was like black people were and are the most worthless people in history where as whites were the exact opposite. And I see this same pattern in Doug’s responses.
LikeLike
Politically, reparation will never happen. For very good reasons, even if not fair ones, white people in general will be able to come up a million good reasons why they shouldn’t provide reparations.
Do black people who just arrived from Africa get reparations?
Do white people who just immigrated from Russia have to fund them?
What about white descendants of hard-core abolitionists?
If it’s a purely racial thing, do half-black people only get half reparations? Or do they both pay and receive?
Ultimately, there’s only one solution that will satisfy white people. New immigrants will also almost assuredly get behind this, especially hispanic immigrants, who won’t be remotely interested in any reparations for slavery, aside from a few activists in a few colleges.
The solution will be: Get over it and deal.
You can’t blame sons for the sins of fathers, full stop. You can blame sons for current racism, but the sins of their fathers are only the sins of their fathers.
By the precise same token, my own family could go after the English crown, for forcing my ancestors to flee like scurrying rats to America as their own country was stolen from them (Ireland). Bastard English.
You may not like it – but waiting for white people to admit anything, or attempting to make them feel guilty or coming up with admittedly clever parallels and arguments as to why they should stop feeling so superior, is worthless except to make black people feel better while sitting in the corner, saying uh-huh to each other while no-one listens.
It’s not fair, but there it is.
The only way forward is to, literally, stop giving a shit what white people think and go out and claim part of the world, on your own terms. Ultimately, it shouldn’t matter what history says: Slavery or not.
Every single “reparation” that whites deliver will come with poison pills rendering the reparation devastating.
In a way, it was better in 1935: then, segregation often did at least one thing; it forced black people to rely on each other and avoid the crocodile tears of whites.
LikeLike
@thordaddy:
“Real men… white, black, red, brown or yellow… They strive towards Supremacy. It’s as natural as getting on your knees and asking for salvation.”
Such as Adolf Hitler, Josef Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot and other “real men”?
Real men, those every day heroes, the Real real ones, help their fellowman and the whole humankind. That is why there are so few real heros.
As a matter of fact, there has been real white american heros like that. One guy invented (polio?) waxine and gave it away for all. He did not patent it. He did not make millions with it. He gave it to all because it was a right thing to do, to help all people. He rather kept his modest salary from the univesity than made millions with the medicine he invented. He did not claim the ownership. He saved millions of lives. He did not “strive for supremacy” or becoming a millionaire. Now that is a real man.
@jayfromphilly:
It is actually off topic but how the present day urban ghettoes became a reality is not an accident. There was a plan and it was done and best of all, it is not even a secret. Just read the history of drugs and organized crime in US. There it is.
@doug:
” …white self reliant and highly inventive and intelligent culture, and strong sense of national (largely white) purpose are what made America what it is today. Blacks have probably been a net negative.”
What white self reliant? You mean like the goverment sendin in the military to defend every white land grabbing invader and to kill off the natives who defended their lands?
What national purpose? You mean the one Timothy McVeigh and all those “militias” have? You mean the sese of national purpose which claims the government on everything negative, like the one Tea Party has?
Black net negative? Like working for next to nothing for decades after decades in working conditions sub human, and still providing that cheap labour for various companies so that they can make millions? Or like working for nothing as slaves for couple centuries? Or working in hospitals, sanitation, air ports, mail etcectect???
@doug:
“The fault here is clearly that of the Bolivian government. The California company was acting heartlessly, but it’s the Bolivian government’s job to protect their people, not that of a market economy American company.
This scenario was actually featured in one recent James Bond film.”
The fault is with the american big business which has forced many governments to adopt their “free market” ideology via WT negotiations, which is forcing its hand now in Europe, which has created wars when ever need be and which have been backed up by the US government when ever there has been a need, even with the military
It’s Bolivian governments job to protect their people? Yes it is. But check what has happened when any latin american government has defended its people against the big US companies and their interests. Yeap.
Thios scenario was indeed taken into to the story line of James Bond movie with a twist, which tells you how alien and weird it is. When this actually was happening it was in the news in Europe quite a lot and it really looked fantastic. The screenwriters saw that too. But for the californian company it was natural behavior, normal american business.
@truthtobetold:
“Why on earth would sound, reasonable minded, educated people believe such things and take it to heart?
Why believe all the lies about inventions and discoveries and greatness when there is overwhelming evidence of the opposite?
I think that’s the reason why I get worked up…I don’t understand the denial.”
I think it is the propaganda. Average american white (and anyone else) is surrounded by the propaganda from the day one. It is in the toys, on tv, on childrens tales, stories, kindergarten, schools, everywhere. The very subtle message of the very base of the racism is repeated and repeated and driven in constantly: there is those and us, there are the whites and the rest. There is a divide, a difference, a wall, a street as a border. Them and us. Again and again and again. And as you grow it becomes even more so, more subtle, more devious, more penetrating, more complex, but it is there every sigle day. All around you, in everything you hear and see and read. It takes a lot to realise this. It takes a lot to stand up against this.
And mind you, this same propaganda is targeting the blacks too from the get go: there is you over here and those whites over there, you got nothing in common, you got differences, you do not belong there etc. And most of all this: regardless of your individual abilities, it is your skin color that defines you as a person, as a worker, as a student, as an athlete, as a man, as a woman, as a kid etc. This is repeated constantly, again, again, again and again. You are not in there, you are out. You do not belong. You are not one of Them.
White american denial is based on the fragility of the Great White America Myth. The whole country is based on a myth. It is make believe. If and when the people would see their country and history as it is instead of what is made to be, that would create a huge existential crisis. Just like those millions and millions who lived in eastern Europe and USSR and believed the system. When it collapsed millions were astonished, puzzled, simply paralyzed. The reality was something totally alien to them. We on the outside had always seen that system for what it was but millions had believed in it. They had believed that is was the best in the world. Just like millions of americans believe now about their system. It is essential to deny everything to keep that illusion up. Because that is all it has to go for. When the day comes that people wake up, and guys like you have already woken up, and there will be a total collapse of the Great White American Myth, there will be monumental change.
LikeLike
Sam,
What’s better than telling the black collective that they ACTUALLY suffer from radical autonomy and self-annihilation and not oppression and genocide.
Those that teach the latter are really just providing smokescreen for the former.
You looked in the mirror lately?
LikeLike
@thordaddy
Wow. This one sentence gave away so much.
1. you view white american people as one family, one entity. Other races are “others, not us”. Hence all your trash about each race wanting control over the other. you’re a white supremacist.
2. “Downplay their failures” means downplaying slavery and imperialism, i.e not acknowledging the suffering caused by the ‘one great white american family’, not trying to heal the damages made which people still suffer from.
3. “Emphasizing their accomplishment” again means “emphasizing their accomplishments ALONE”, thereby ignoring others’ accomplishments and coupled with the denial of pt.2, creating the impression that something is wrong with the others, they haven’t fully evolved etc. (Hence it’s all right to enslave them, invade them, rob them, mug them, not give them jobs because they’ll be inefficient, not help them when disaster hits because they’re no good. If we have to kill them to make our lives more comfortable then so be it. – White supremacism and jingoism)
To degenerates the notion of being tagged good without doing any good is appealing, so they claim the title by virtue of their ethnicity, nationality or whatever they can think of.
LikeLike
Given how inferior acting black people are, on average, it would take superhuman double think for whites to not be at least somewhat racist, in the expanded sense of that word.
Whites attempt this, but it’s ultimately about impossible.
LikeLike
See I’m white and i see it the opposite way. I presume Blacks are highly intelligent and whites are dirt stupid (however harmless in intention).
This seems to work out okay for me.
LikeLike
@ Gorbachev
What do reparations have to do with the initial post in this thread? You just waltzed in here and decided to go off on a copy and paste rant that was based on a Red Herring of your own creation.
LikeLike
@Doug1
Ah. Finally you’ve shown your true ‘colour’, I see.
LikeLike
Wow, Abagond! This post is definitely among your very best, I would rank it among the top 3 posts on this blog for me, for the mere fact that it offers a very new perspective for me.
As an Asian (Indian), most of your posts give me validation for the thoughts I already have regarding race and class in this country. But this post definitely made me look at things in a new light, and it’s definitely a mindfuck. I’ll never listen to the “White Inventor Argument” again without thinking about this parallel.
LikeLike
Sam–
The US Army defending settlers was only something that happened late in the era of Indian wars, most post the Civil War. It was largely militias raised ad hoc among the settlers that did it in the early American days.
And yeah the culture of the initial Anglo and the Germanic stocks was and remains very self reliant. Some others less so.
Certainly since the sixties blacks have forever had their hands out, and not just a few of them.
LikeLike
anglesanddimensions–
I’ve always said that blacks are notably less intelligent, more prone to criminality, less conscientious and with lower time horizon preferences than whites or NE Asians, or in fact most others.
That’s why they’re always at the bottom of the barrel almost everywhere. Well maybe they wouldn’t be visa vis Australian aboriginies, the Koisan or pygmies, and in fact weren’t historically in Africa compared to the last two.
That doesn’t mean that there are no very intelligent blacks or that all are prone to violent criminality. But these factors do greatly effect the social statistics.
LikeLike
WOW.
This is the moment I’ve been waiting for.
Doug has finally said what he’s been wanting to say.
Thank you.
Now, doesn’t it feel good to just be yourself?
Instead of ‘ intelligence this ‘ and ‘ invention that ‘, doesn’t it give you relief to just say what’s on your mind?
Now…you can finally…exhale.
LikeLike
@doug: You better go back to history class, my friend. Start from the Ohio river valley history. Or from New England. Or from any where, for that matter.
LikeLike
@ Doug1
Wow.
If blacks rob and kill it shows they are ‘prone to criminality”.
When whites do it, it shows they are “self reliant”.
LikeLike
Abagond,
When blacks do anything bad, it’s because we’re just born that way.
When whites do anything bad…well, that poor fellow just made some bad choices; we should remember that all people make mistakes and forgive and forget.
Like President Bush with Katrina.
LikeLike
This is the “white inventor argument”, and it happens to be completely true.
Whites, due to both their native intelligence and due to getting onto a cultural roll beginning with the renaissance more or less, created the modern world soup to nuts, beginning with Guttenberg’s invention of the first mass production printing press, which immediately lead to the widespread circulation of relatively cheap books, pamphlets and journals, which in turn had much to do with the first systematic development of interrelated science in the world.
It continues here:
http://glpiggy.net/2011/12/11/reparations/#comment-29170
LikeLike
“What’s better than telling the black collective that they ACTUALLY suffer from radical autonomy and self-annihilation and not oppression and genocide?”
Dearest Tanto, oops I meant thordaddy,
Telling it to the white collective and their unabashed esurient bootlickers I imagine. After all, it’s far more descriptive of their condition than that of others. It’s the very definition of white supremacy if you ask me…to the tee in fact.
Symbolized by statements such as, “I want my country back!!!” and action such as beating then carving a swastika on a Native Americans for-head if you will recall. LOL
By the by, are you Amerindian or Spaniard? I only ask because you do realize that the “whiteness” of Spaniards is still under dispute don’t you? LOL
Anywho, here’s what a spaniard feels about the matter:
“The only and Real Latins are white n they are from Europe Italy n Spain”
and then of course there’s this:
Spanish people are not white
I have no dog in this fight, as it’s more than evident it’s an internal struggle you’re busy wrestling with yourself, so feel free not to respond. LOL
Good Lick…I mean Luck by the way.
LikeLike
@Doug1,
Abagond has you here.
While you know I agree that it’s not a priori absurd that there are behavioral and IQ differences coded into different groups of people – far from it, I think this is almost demanded by recent human evolution – I also think these differences are
1) not as extreme as might at first appear,
2) Insufficient to explain how badly the black American underclass performs
and
3) doesn’t take into account a predisposition, as Abagond points out, to see Black criminals as naturally born this way and whites as merely aberrant.
Also, racism on many levels is going to badly skew results. And then there’s culture.
While I agree that there’s almost guaranteed to be some difference, from a genetic point of view, before hard claims are made about this the cultural, social and negative factors associated with racism and class structure have to be rooted out.
I suspect the small difference will account for some of the greater incarceration of black people and the exceptional IQs of the right-tail white/Asian communities, but on average–
and this is important –
absent racism, cultural differentials and low expectations, the vast bulk of black Americans would be more or less indistinguishable from anyone else.
As white people, it’s easy for us to seek simple solutions.
the truth is, that even if you’re onto something, the exact scope of what you’re on to will elude you.
The biggest test would be to go to places like Sentinel Island, and visit people possible separated from all of the rest of humanity for 30,000 years; and then do comparisons with Aboriginal Melanesia / Australasia.
I strongly suspect the genetic differences between racial groups in the Old World and among Amerindians and the Old World are, while not zero, also not huge.
I don’t have that same faith with Australasians. The evidence there is that 50,000 years of separate gene pools has had some pretty profound effects.
By comparison, the barriers between gene flow between places like West Africa and Europe were much less.
My suspicion: Much more recent social selective pressures, directly related to the agricultural revolution, led to significant changes, and that under this, “genetic differences” alone are woefully insufficient to account for all of this we see in America.
Racism and bad attitudes and culture have to account for a lot of it.
Which means Abagond, in fact, has you here. You can’t say that it’s “Independence” in the case of german Americans and “Criminality” in the case of black Americans.
That’s illustrating exactly what Abagond wants to see.
LikeLike
@ Gorbachev & Doug1:
If you, or anyone else, wants to continue the discussion on black IQs do it on the Open Thread or here:
I have a post on African IQs here:
By the way, I agree with Gorbachev: if genetic differences in intelligence were going to appear anywhere it would be between Aboriginals and everyone else. But it might be in the Aboriginals’s favour: the only way to get to Australia was by boat and they got there very early on.
LikeLike
If Doug is going to cite GLPiggy, then it says a lot. Race realist racists stick together I suppose.
LikeLike
“Now, doesn’t it feel good to just be yourself?
Instead of ‘ intelligence this ‘ and ‘ invention that ‘, doesn’t it give you relief to just say what’s on your mind?
Now…you can finally…exhale.”
***********************
Trolls will say virtually ANYTHING – no matter how ridiculous – to keep themselves center-stage, garnering responses and much needed attention. His attention gathering techniques have been slipping of late, so now he’s pulling out all the stops. Fascinating, this.
LikeLike
brothawolf–
I didn’t link to a GL Piggy post. I linked to my long comment there, which gives as examples scores upon scores of world changing white inventions since Gutenberg invented to first mass production printing press, to great cultural, scientific and invention changing effect.
LikeLike
I’ve made that same comment more or less in a number of places. Saved it as a word document and all.
LikeLike
@ Doug1
Please cut and paste the comment you made at GL Piggy here.
LikeLike
Doug,
In any case it’s very telling especially when you admit that you made that comment in a number of places. All you’re doing is copy and paste the same argument over and over again as if that’s the correct answer to whatever.
Come on, man. That’s sad. Say something new.
LikeLike
I had a point by point response to Gorbachev where I only partly disagreed with him, and made that clear, but it was held in moderation and it seems Abagond isn’t going to let it go though as being off topic, I suppose.
LikeLike
I’ve made that same comment more or less in a number of places. Saved it as a word document and all.
“You spin me right round baby right round like a ‘broken’ record, right round, round round”…..
LikeLike
@ Doug1
I deleted several comments about IQs by you, Gorbachev, Jorbia and SomeGuy. They are off topic.
LikeLike
@doug:
” …first systematic development of interrelated science in the world.”
No, it was not the first time in the world. Back to those history books instead of the Net, my friend. Read them carefully with full attention. You will learn something.
LikeLike
@ Doug1
Since you use your skin color as your phallus –
Since you have no relationship with any inventors past or present (besides the imagined one connected to the melanin levels in your body) –
Since there is a 99.9% chance that you are an especially embittered, xenophobic, social maladjust –
– it is time that we stopped lowering ourselves by responding to you.
LikeLike
@ JT
“Since you use your skin color as your phallus -”
LOL!!!!
Thanks, I needed that.
LikeLike
JT-
“Since you use your skin color as your phallus -”
Oh man. That’s a brilliant observation.
LikeLike
Demerera,
I cosign with your observation.
LikeLike
Sam,
I think Doug made it clear that unless it talks about the great achievements of the white race whether they are factual, based on the creations of POC, or made up, he won’t read it.
You see, he’s not into sources that don’t talk about the so-called greatness of white men. Those sources are made by lefties and therefore are automatically wrong. LOL
In Doug’s mind white people were responsible for everything monumental, innovative, and a boon for mankind. No one else has contributed to anything remotely as great as the inventions he’s focused on.
You see, Doug believes he is intelligent and his comments were intelligent. After all, he is a white man. End of story. That’s what it comes down to. He knows more than us simple minded colored folk and bleeding-heart lefties, and he feels it is his DUTY to tell us a thing or two whether his views are welcomed or not.
It doesn’t matter if Doug never invented anything in his life. It doesn’t matter if there’s a possibility that he never accomplished anything in life. He associates his skin with the skin of his heroes and idols as proof of his inherit greatness. He uses them to build himself up.
LikeLike
@ Truthbetold & Brothawolf
Thanks! =)
LikeLike
brothaman–
So what. It’s a labor saving technique. It’s a long damn comment. It’s really a significant major blog post in a comment. It was I thought, and many have said, quite epoch.
Btw, some blacks around here have said I “memorized some list from somewhere”. Completely untrue. I know a lot of Euro and world history. I just mused about what the most important inventions and other positive, human welfare enhancing creations have been for the last 500 years, when by general historical consensus the modern world began (1500). Thinking about it I had to go back a bit further to Gutenberg’s invention of the first mass production printing press, and what that did to the rapid spread of knowledge in Europe among the educated but not necessarily always really rich elite.
I then just mused from my historical knowledge about what were all the really game changingly important inventions since then, and other game changing in a positive way inventions. I avoided military inventions entirely, since those are negative as well as positive, though white men invented about all of the important ones there too since 1500 or so.
LikeLike
Sam–
I know much more about world history than you have evidenced you do, far, far left wing leftie.
It was the first time. The nearest competitor is classical to Alexandrian Greece. Never China, nor any other non white civilization. ‘
Prove contrary. You can’t.
Poser.
LikeLike
China was a bunch of disconnected inventions many of which went nowhere, and none of which lead to a systematic science culture of discovery.
Everywhere else is basically no account. Indian history is still being unraveled since they had this incredibly non linear, non scientific way of recording history by and large. But it looks really unlikely to have invented all that much, despite fervent Indian nationalist claims to the contrary. And some Brit gone native ones.
LikeLike
Dougie,
So what. It’s a labor saving technique. It’s a long damn comment. It’s really a significant major blog post in a comment. It was I thought, and many have said, quite epoch.
Oh, that’s efficient. Just mass produce the same comment and bring nothing new or productive to the table. That’s intelligent. SMH.
LikeLike
@doug:
“Prove contrary. You can’t.
Poser.”
Yes I can.
Egypt: your supreme white engineers still ponder how the hell those egyptians built those pyramids and such, when the answer is very simple. They knew what they were doing because they had the science to do that. And they did that for couple thousands of years. And they drilled skulls with patients who sometimes survived the process couple thousands of years before any american had even heard of such practise.
Peru: your white enginiers and reseachers still ponder how the hell those indians who did not even know the wheel built those walls without the plaster when the clear answer is: they knew what they were doing and were better in it than your white super educated engineers are today. That is why some crackpots are callin in the little green men from Mars for explanations. They just simply can not believe that those savages were better builders than the Great White Anglo Saxon engineers. And that wheel? Try driving on those mountain paths they had with any cart.
India: They had plastic surgery, waxines, pain relief, litterature, mathematics, philosophy, engineering about 2000 years before white americans even existed. Ain’t that a bitch.
These are just for starters. Of course the knowledge and science was almost destroyed, stolen or outlawed by the white conquerors later on in many cultures and places so we know only fragments what those other civilizations really knew, did or had.
I do not deny the great advances of modern science, as a matter of fact I am a great fan of many achievements, but I am old enough to understand the history as a science as well. For example, I know that the history you push on is so called eurocentric history which shows in your limiting the relevant history to 1500 to present. If you really wish to portray the history as the triumph of the white man you should start from say 1600 because only after that the whites began to dominate the global events via arms.
About posing, I know it hurts when you began to realise that your “knowledge” is not actuall knowledge but tall tales and illusion, but it is the only way forward towards the real knowledge. Posing, as you do, as a self sure know-it-all is what the kids do. Grown ups know better.
@brothawolf:
Well, Doug here is a bit young and insecure and does not know that much, so he is a bit defensive when it comes to facts of life or history. That is why he is so hostile. When individual is affraid he usually goes on offensive mood because the foundation on which he stands is made out of hey. But a kid has to fall couple times before he learns not to run before he can walk.
LikeLike
@truthbetold
You just made my entire month with your response to yawn
Without the victim card we’d have no identity, eh?
Dear chap, it is YOU that has no identity without the colour of your skin.
Blacks and people of colour have identity.
It’s called SURVIVORS
So true my man!!
LikeLike
Oh, that’s efficient. Just mass produce the same comment and bring nothing new or productive to the table. That’s intelligent. SMH.
@ Brothawolf
He acts as though he wrote a new idea or constructed it in an atypical fashion. Ive read everything he said in a high school history text book. Which is probably where he supplies himself with all of his information.
Doug basks in the glory of people that have no tie to him. This gives him some sense of self-importance that would otherwise be missing altogther.
LikeLike
@Renee
Is that right? I have no identity but my skin colour? Funny, in most of my daily life I rarely look to myself and my skin as a badge of honour as I interact with others. If anything, I see my skin as my curse, because of the simple fact I get to have people such as yourself look at me as an oppressor without knowing me personally, just based on skin alone.
Is that not why you added the “survivors” remark, as a nod that I’m guilty by association of my colour?
I’m not even going to bother, as I really don’t want to argue with commenters, I’m mostly just interested in the topic and Abagonds view of it, not the white noise that I hear from the aftermath.
LikeLike
Quote:
Everybody is a genius, but if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid Albert Einstein
LikeLike
If anything, I see my skin as my curse, because of the simple fact I get to have people such as yourself look at me as an oppressor without knowing me personally, just based on skin alone.
Put it to music and play it on the violin then. ‘White’ is seen as the default ‘race’. Anyone not ‘white’ is seen as ‘other’, hence the term racialization. These perceptions are not just based upon ‘skin colour’ alone. It is patterns of behaviour and systemic racism attributable to the colour ‘white’ which causes these perceptions.
LikeLike
@Herneith
“‘White’ is seen as the default ‘race’. Anyone not ‘white’ is seen as ‘other’, hence the term racialization. These perceptions are not just based upon ‘skin colour’ alone”
So, I’m therefor not supposed to voice my distain for that as I’m the default? Sounds like nothing but the “don’t whine you suffer from white privledge” argument.
Meh, I won’t say anything else as It’ll just be blamed on me anyhow either directly or indirectly.
LikeLike
Yawn,
Honestly speaking, I’m not sympathetic with your response to Herneith because it almost sounds akin to the online version of “white tears.”
This blog was not designed for you to feel warm and fuzzy. You have society to do that.
Plus, you came here willingly. So, don’t condemn us for writing from a perspective different from yours, and don’t attack us when you’ve made mistakes.
You see, you can play the victim all you want, and feel sorry for yourself if you want. However, you placed yourself into a situation not designed for your betterment. You try to sound like an ally for us, but your mindset of whiteness makes you devoid of learning from outside your matrix. You refuse to learn more about us and more about yourself. You are more offended by what is said as opposed to what really happened and what’s going on.
That’s the truth.
LikeLike
@brothawolf
Yawn is not complaining about being exposed to a view point different than his/her own. Yawn is pointing out hypocrisy. The fact that stereotyped people are stereotyping those who stereotype them.
LikeLike
Hello, everyone….i am kinda new to the forum, but been following the blogs for quite some time now. I have seen some real intelligent folks here, even when they are on both sides of the argument.
My take on the on topic posited by Abagond is that, though, it’s purpose might be merely to stimulate/provoked a thought process, its is still giving whites the their self-acclaimed view of superiority by making the crisis of PoC as theirs to fix. In truth, white america or western whites have no clue how to reverse the problem. This is akin with some Hollywood movies where a genius has created A.I intelligence that he also becomes a slave of.\
This fix in this is for blacks to learn about their history prior to slavery and educate their children to invoke the same sort of confidence and self-value that white children are accustom to. Before i veered off topic, White will never speak of slavery as they do of inventions, thus, it is up to blacks to keep the topic alive the way jews do for the Holocaust. When the topic is in discussion, blacks must not only start at slavery, but do the proper research as what lead to slavery and how blacks ended up in the hands of whites and what kept them there, as well as, what freed them.
Also, today’s society, its easy for whites to speak about inventions because they’re rarely ever challenged due to white privilege and mainstream acceptance. And as for modern inventions, due to the “melting pot” theory no group can soley lay claim to anything unless that invention is made up of entirely new material not yet place on the periodic table. Whites, inherently, see themselves as superior, and to bring up their darkside(e.g slavery) is to show a barbaric side that highly contradicts the definition of what “being more civilized” and “non-violent” means. This would mean they would have to meet other races on a level term-being equal, and i do believe the highly knowledgeable and non bias ones among the race understand this, but are censored and socially isolated so as to not expose the truth one of such was Martin Bernal.
N.B. Whites are the newest civilization on the human scale, therefore it is understandable that they will be the more progressive at this point in time, because they have taken what others build and also build on it, but what they don’t understand is that life is a cycle and civilization rise and fall. We are witnessing the fall of white civilization as we speak. Blacks don’t need reparation, because of the low-esteem, brainwashing, and low self-worth by so many blacks, it would end up right back where it came from. Parents need educate their children or a find a suitable environment or system that can, in order to build their self esteem and self-value, so as to stimulate their creative mind, so when its time to shine they have the confidence to rise to the top again.
LikeLike
@brothawolf
Yawn is not complaining about being exposed to a view point different than his/her own. Yawn is pointing out hypocrisy. The fact that stereotyped people are stereotyping those who stereotype them.
#####
Stereotyped people (Blacks) are stereotyping those (Whites) who stereotype them (Blacks).
When Abagond and company routinely disclaim that if this post doesn’t apply to you, then … IT DOESN”T APPLY TO YOU! So yet then you have someone like Yawn who made one of the most outrageous statements that i have ever seen about how without victimhood Blacks have no identity, no purpose.
AND THEN HE COMPLAINS when people call him out on that and other ridiculousness.
And you are sticking up for him?
Talk about group-think.
What are you really sticking up for, eco? The right to be a white victim of black prejudice? The right to free hate speech? The right to be white trash? The right to think in a linear fashion?
How do you affiliate yourself with Yawn and his comments?
LikeLike
@ Megas – Howdy!
“Blacks don’t need reparation, because of the low-esteem, brainwashing, and low self-worth by so many blacks, it would end up right back where it came from.”
*************************************
I’m really starting to get fed up with this often repeated and tiresome B/S that usually non-black opponents of reparations use as an excuse (of MANY excuses) as to why reparations should not be paid to black people.
Fascinating – yet expected, though utterly faulty reasoning.
How many blacks constitute “so many blacks?”
And so what if it all winds up back in the hands of the treasury – assuming that’s where it’ll come from. Why does it matter so much to you? I can tell you why reparations matter very much to me – but I don’t have to. Just read the contents of this blog pertaining to race.
1 – How black people might decide to use, spend, save, invest, gift, gamble or even throw away their own money is absolutely no one’s business. It makes about as much sense as the governors of Arizona and New Mexico having hissy fits and getting all worked up and bothered over how the states of Delaware and Wisconsin might spend the tax dollars kicked back to them from the federal treasury.
2 – There isn’t one civil court jury or judge, that I’m aware of, in the U.S. that awards decisions regarding restitution, punitive damages, wrongful injury, wrongful death, pain and suffering, interest and so forth based upon how the winning litigant may, or may not, spend the money awarded.
3 – The beneficiaries of slavery/black codes/Jim Crow/racist incarceration and racism in general have no legal standing or moral grounds to demand what remedies are deemed appropriate and how, and to whom said remedies are dispensed. That’s strictly the judge, mediator and litigators’ domain – and last time I checked, every non-black person with a negative opinion re reparations does not constitute as such.
The enormous complexities of how and to whom reparations might be delivered isn’t, or shouldn’t be, an invitation for every white person (or whomever) at large to weigh-in individually – as they’ve been doing for an inordinate amount of time – to declare why restitution isn’t feasible and therefore impractical. Whites don’t like when PoC and blacks in particular make any appreciable gains in America because they perceive such gains as unfair to them – and their financial status/positions.
But hey, maybe I’m missing something here .. but try as I might, I can’t fathom the existence of any other situation in America where the guilty party dictates to the wronged party the precise terms of their punishment/penalties, civil or otherwise.
LikeLike
^^^^^
I should have specified: my post above is directed @ eco & @ yawn.
LikeLike
@JT
“When Abagond and company routinely disclaim that if this post doesn’t apply to you, then … IT DOESN”T APPLY TO YOU! So yet then you have someone like Yawn who made one of the most outrageous statements that i have ever seen about how without victimhood Blacks have no identity, no purpose.
AND THEN HE COMPLAINS when people call him out on that and other ridiculousness.”
Actually, again you seem to take my earlier post about PoC usually playing the victim card as a “White guy talking about blacks again!”
When I posted that, I meant in the context that PoC (Not just blacks) often play the victim card as if without it they don’t have a sense of purpose(an identity), I didn’t mean ALL I meant some. Some have very valid reasons to, and I don’t object to them. It wasn’t a gripe against you, or anyone else I just specifically mentioned how most of Truths post reflected a victim mentality without ever seeming to want to rise above it. (Whites want to see blacks hang, would rather walk to hell with another white than to heaven with a black etc.)
And you said to me “No one gives a sh*t about what you think”.
“What are you really sticking up for, eco? The right to be a white victim of black prejudice? The right to free hate speech? The right to be white trash? The right to think in a linear fashion?
How do you affiliate yourself with Yawn and his comments?”
Sounds like you’re just mad he actually has a point, and sees what I mean. And what’s this group-think nonsense, honestly. I know Abagonds blog was not meant for “white” folks, but at the same time he insists(and afew others) that whites often fail to see the whole point of this posts. I read most of this posts, I often fail to understand the core meaning of it, hence why I ask him what would be the end goal for him.
I’m not against a view point different from my own, as how else can someone learn? But in the same tune, why the hypocrisy?
Want an example? Everytime I post ANYTHING that directly or indirectly targets PoC someone wants to chime in how “Oh you’re just white this, white that, fail to see this due to whiteness”
How can you just explain away someones view like that, you think I won’t be upset at any viewpoint I have being labeled as some “white” mental defect?
“You try to sound like an ally for us, but your mindset of whiteness makes you devoid of learning from outside your matrix.”
There’s the proof.
Whatever, I supposed I shouldn’t even come here anyway. It’s nice to try to get different perspectives from non-whites only to have them in the end sound exactly like the ones they openly criticise (Abagond excluded, I enjoy his views, and he doesn’t make it sound as you’re not welcome here)
FYI Brotherwolf, I AM AN ALLY. I don’t support racists, I don’t mock away reports indicating time and time again racism is still happening, I wonder how it can change and if It will. Hell, did you not even see me specifically say to abagonds post that I agreed with him, especially when he mentioned reparations, until the bigotted whites came in?
Pfft whatever, I’m not gonna reply anymore. I’m just going to visit and read Abagonds posts, as I said once before I can accept his views, even If I feel It’s worded strongly but compared to some of you guys? You make him look like a saint.
LikeLike
@ yawn
I’m reading frustration, angst and a bit of resentment.
Do you want to know why we’re here?
No blame. Just answers.
We as people of colour have no voice outside of this blog and other blogs like this one. As coloureds, anything we say in defense of our race and against racism will be seen as whining, complaining and making excuses not to try.
This blog and others like it provide us a ‘ safe ‘ haven to air out our frustrations at:
1. Work, being ignored or passed over for a position in favor of a (mostly) white counterpart with less credentials.
2. The system which is designed to trap us so we fail not just for ourselves, but fail in life, generally speaking.
3. Our neighborhoods, the good and the bad ones, where no matter how nice you may be, how impeccable your lawn you still get that feeling that you are not welcomed.
4. From the police, especially black males, where it could mean life and death.
It may sound as though we playing that victim / race card but our reality it’s the cold, hard truth.
We can’t have these conversations in real life outside of family and a few close friends. Most whites are sick of hearing blacks complain.
Hence the ” If it’s so bad here, go back to Africa” lines we get.
Also these blogs provide validation that we’re not ‘imagining things’.
So we come here.
To learn to heal. To learn the ‘whys’ and ‘hows’. To un-brainwash ourselves.
Some of the comments are emotionally based mixed with fact.
Some are ALL emotion.
But all are true.
And yes, because whiteness is our main opposition, we talk about it A LOT.
All folks are welcomed here.
I don’t agree with all the black commenters here.
I see things differently at times due to my travels and lineages.
But you ARE on a black anti-racist blog that is born unto a black man.
We will continue to attack racism.
Hurt feelings aside, say your points and argue them.
That’s how we all learn.
LikeLike
[…] “What If White People Talked About Great Inventions the Way They Talk About Slavery?” by… […]
LikeLike
I applaud you.
This is a very well thought out argument that any white supremacist would have a lot of trouble arguing against.
I always have wondered, what would happen if white people talked about inventions and so called “white achievements” like they do about racism or other forms of oppression. It comes down to:
“If it’s good, only white people could have done it, even if we had nothing to do with it. If it’s bad then everyone else did it and white people either had nothing to do with it or just went with the flow.”
LikeLike
http://plancksconstant.org/blog1/2009/12/slavery_in_islam.html
White people got enslaved by muslims during the course of history.
A starting reparation would be in place. the parties that rose up during 2010 and the anti immigration parties got catch of this. this is one of the main reason they got so strong and in power.
“” if the great inventions are proof of the great intelligence of blacks. IF there are any comparing it?, then slavery and genocide are proof of the great evil of blacks. You cannot claim one without the other.”
@abagond
Is it abnormal for the black American minority to emphasize their accomplishments and downplay their failures?
@abagond
When blacks can get to the place where they see that they are no better or worse than whites, where they can take the idea of reparations seriously, then they will probably also be in a place where they have a serious understanding of their history.
Though they allied themself with the jews and started to support israel against these muslims. and started to be against black muslims such as mohammed ali or louis farrakhan in that there are more anti-semetic muslim countries then there are christian white countries.(44undemocratic muslim countries, turkey is kinda democratic)
You are not a something that give us something here in europe. instead you are a liability. if you are a liability then there is no reason for us to support you. we are the majority and we voted as the 2010 elections showned. like gert wilders just as an example. the swedish democrats got elected aswell. a pro white pro white culture and pro white pride party.
affirmative action and positive discrimimation got called for racist action and negative discrimination against whites.
So unless you given us a reason to vote for things that are positive for non-whites. then no votes shall be given. instead now how Obama is behaving, it will make people think how blacks are worse then bush. Thus increasing people who think that black men cant do things right, and thus get these kinds of parties even more power to enact laws and change more opinion through their education programs they distribute be it with speakers or fliers or magazines. right wing or not, they did have incredible effect power.
so why should whites vote for you if you are not willing to get the white groups support or support whites interest?
if all black voted, they would still be a minority. if the majority of whites votes as in europe…well then there is no reason to support you. though like said if the whites did nothing for the black vote it would not matter since they are not majority voting power. the whites are.
LikeLike
@V-4
Just saw this, even though lots of comments have been posted after this one, no one called you out on this. The point is, Susan Brown wasn’t the INVENTOR. She was a marketer and if at all, she should have gotten credit for being a marketer, not an inventor. Calling her the inventor – that’s a total lie.
That’s marketers becoming inventors just like that. Hmm.. I read somewhere that the pox vaccination method was known to the American Indians…
When you conquer a place, you conquer the scientific advancements made by the inhabitants of it.
LikeLike
Crowley – The more you dig into world history, the more you realize Everyone enslaved Everybody at some point or another. Not really, but we’ve all probably got some horrible shit somewhere in our history. It’s just that in terms of deep time, the slavery of Black Americans didn’t end until recently. And in case you’re wondering, no, this doesn’t excuse any of it. For all my relativism and philosophizing and secular disbelief, I will say that slavery is inherently evil, and NO ONE gets a pass.
I’m not referring to the Leather and Whips type “slavery,” for the one or two very very dumb people who might actually not only make that connection but actually think that BDSM is anything like real slavery. I’m only mentioning it because this sort of thing has happened before when I stated my opinion in another discussion elsewhere. Just trying to avoid another massive derailment.
Fun little bit of trivia – The word “slave” actually has it’s root origins in the word “Slav”, as in the Slavic peoples of Europe who were enslaved by the Germans in the 13th century, to the point where the two became synonymous. My father’s ancestry is German and Slavic, so there is probably at least one rape-child in my ancestry somewhere. That’s always fun to think about, huh?
LikeLike
I say that inventions aren’t proof of the greater intelligence of whites and slavery isn’t proof of the greater evil of whites.
The science, innovations and technology that brought about the modern world did originate almost exclusively in Europe (and America) though. Without the west*, the rest of the world would very likely still have no science, electricity, modern transportation and communications, computers or space travel.
Any of the important outside of Europe contributions to the process, like Algebra, at least came from the wider Caucasian zone. Again, I don’t think this proves Caucasians are more intelligent. Its just the way it is.
You can’t say the same kind of thing about slavery though. That was truly universal. It didn’t start in the west, then spread.
*Jews living in the west were a big part of this too, not just white people.
LikeLike
….although I guess Jews are white genetically…or Caucasian at least.
LikeLike
of course I’m not talking about all inventions, just the ones that define the modern world. So you probably could make a good list of Chinese inventions…. even sub-Saharan African ones, though i don’t know of any of those.
LikeLike
Interesting post but I think that Black inventors should get credit as well. There are White inventors and all but there are POC inventors too. Give them some credit as well as Whites ones. Peace
LikeLike
@Steve, I have to disagree with the modern inventions being exclusively European (Also Jewish is not exclusively White or Caucasion it is a religion that is practiced in Europe, Asia (mostly West Asia or “The Middle East”), and several parts of Africa).
Math was sourced in India with the Vedics but then was taken by Arabs and Europeans without giving any reference back to its origination in India.
Guillermo Gonzalez Camarena, inventor of colored tv.
Paper, Chinese although inspired by how an insect created it.
Garrett Augustus Morgan – Black – modern streetlight, gas mask.
Car – European
The inventions of different groups are varied but almost every race/ethnicity on the planet has inventors that has created something that we all use today.
Also, just because a specific group was “the first” to create it doesn’t mean that others weren’t on the same track in developing something similar. In the past many simultaneous discoveries were made but there was little communication between different areas.
LikeLike
http://www33.brinkster.com/iiiii/inventions/
LikeLike
My Great-Grandfather was an avid inventor. I have about five manilla envelopes full of his sealed patents and boxes full of pictures and documentation and even court papers of him fighting copyright infringement. He actually sued Rand McNally and won. This is a great source of pride for me and I become enraged when niggers claim inventions where they merely made minute and usually obsolete or unimplemented changes to original ideas.
I think Charles Darwin said it best:
Since the dawn of history the Negro has owned the continent of Africa – rich beyond the dream of poet’s fancy, crunching acres of diamonds beneath his bare black feet and yet he never picked one up from the dust until a white man showed to him its glittering light.
His land swarmed with powerful and docile animals, yet he never dreamed a harness, cart, or sled.
A hunter by necessity, he never made an axe, spear, or arrowhead worth preserving beyond the moment of its use. He lived as an ox, content to graze for an hour.
In a land of stone and timber he never sawed a foot of lumber, carved a block, or built a house save of broken sticks and mud.
With league on league of ocean strand and miles of inland seas, for four thousand years he watched their surface ripple under the wind, heard the thunder of the surf on his beach, the howl of the storm over his head, gazed on the dim blue horizon calling him to worlds that lie beyond, and yet he never dreamed a sail.” — Charles Darwin
LikeLike
Yeah, black people didnt start World War One and Two, now did they?
I just dont get this invention concept when discussing black Americans. Is music just so far off the table now, is it so far off everybodies radar, is just too stereotyping or what?
Black Americans invented jazz,blues, rock and roll, funk, rhythm and blues,the cake walk, the lindy hop, the twist, hip hop, break dancing, tap dance, disco and all its four on the floor cousins,be bop, swing, as a matter of fact, American culture is on the backs of the black American concepts that are the heart and soul of American popular culture…
I might not be able to live without the invention of the polio vacine but I would be the walking dead without the black American music innovations and inventions
LikeLike
@ Mr. White,
You’ve done nothing to deserve the right to judge anything black people have done, and frankly I think your use of that disgusting slur will cause your post to be taken care of soon enough. Racists are truly vile things, not even worth the dirt they claim they own. Stop clinging to the coattails of people who’s success you’ve had nothing to do with before you start posting poems that only prove the sort of dangerous logic that lets racists use the accomplishments of others to further their agenda. Your not special because someone with your complexion made an invention and you sure as hell don’t deserve the right to look down on someone else for it. Black people have sacrificed too damn much for people like you to feel entitled to think you’re better than them.
I have lost my freaking temper:
Black people had done plenty for themselves, and there’s a reason no one with sense relies on the commentary of the bigots who thought it was okay to make them slaves for hundreds of years and deny them rights for many afterwards in regards to what sort of civilizations Africa had. They had to portray them as useless or incapable, how else would they excuse taking their land and owning them for centuries, treating them no better than beasts? Hm? Why not ask the indigenous people of the world! Why not ask India or the people European nations almost wiped out before black people were seen as a “replacement”? Oh wait. I’m sure they’ll be happy to tell you what it’s like to live in places white people tell you you can, or have their ancestors strung up on trees like grotesque pinatas. I’m sure they’ll tell you how, when they came to America, they were often killed for sifting gold in places white men gave up on. I’m sure they’ll be more than willing to tell you what it’s like to have their culture be treated like an oddity, or their people talked about like they’re property. Why not ask the Irish and other European nations that weren’t considered “white enough” at first and had to choose between their assimilation or subjugation? Lovely little inventions those were, hm?
I freaking HATE that sort of viewpoint so much! it’s nothing but the childish attempt to cling to some sort of worth without actually doing something to deserve it. Instead of looking at the past realistically and taking responsibility for all of the bad along with the good, racists would rather sit here and brag about privilege they never deserved or pride they did not earn. I’d like to see one of them make an improvement to the modern cockpit, or traffic light, or invent the hair care products that revolutionized an industry! I’d love to see them revolutionize music more than once, become leaders in the sports world, become the head of NASA or the President. Wait, they are too busy clinging to their listless little lives, sitting with their hands out waiting for praise based on the crap someone who looked like them did. Pathetic
LikeLike
Note: I had deleted Mr White’s comment for use of the n-word, but have brought it back since it is getting considerable comment.
LikeLike
By the way, that is a fake Darwin quote.
LikeLike
Thanks for reinstating the comment. I think it is a worthy read.
Besides, according to the *fake* Darwin quote, it sounds like a people who knew better how to follow a more sustainable lifestyle. North Americans are the highest producer of greenhouse gasses, and much of the megafauna went extinct, or nearly so, in a very short time. The Eastern cougar disappeared, and bison and wolves had to be imported to repopulate.
The other continents were rich too. But look at them now.
LikeLike
@ Aba
Thanks for putting back Mr. White’s comment. We needed to see that, all of us. Amazing isn’t it? The mindset. My eyes are so far open now…
LikeLike
The fake Darwin quote comes from “The Clansman: An Historical Romance of the Ku Klux Klan” (1905) by Thomas Dixon, the book that became the Hollywood film “The Birth of a Nation”. See it here in Google Books:
http://books.google.com/books?id=nTqoheg2e98C&pg=PA216&lpg=PA216&dq=%22Since+the+dawn+of+history+the+Negro+has+owned+the+continent+of+Africa+%E2%80%93+rich+beyond+the+dream+of+poet%E2%80%99s+fancy,+crunching+acres+of+diamonds+beneath+his+bare+black+feet%22&source=bl&ots=n4Bsy3xOWr&sig=bvZS_BPdO8DbnhxDuO_5da3DyXA&hl=en&sa=X&ei=qNOGT-i7DoWu8AHy6a3CCA&ved=0CCAQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=%22Since%20the%20dawn%20of%20history%20the%20Negro%20has%20owned%20the%20continent%20of%20Africa%20%E2%80%93%20rich%20beyond%20the%20dream%20of%20poet%E2%80%99s%20fancy%2C%20crunching%20acres%20of%20diamonds%20beneath%20his%20bare%20black%20feet%22&f=false
LikeLike
Thank you , Abagond!! I knew it looked really foolishm thanks for verifying that…what a joke these people are
LikeLike
Thanks for identifying the source of that quote.
Did it also appear in “The Birth of a Nation”?
LikeLike
It would also be totally out of character for Charles Darwin.
LikeLike
When I read the fake Darwin quote I was thinking, sure, Darwin was racist, but he was not ignorant.
LikeLike
@ Abagond,
Thanks for putting Mr. White’s post back up, it was a perfectly vile example of just why your post on this subject was sorely needed. The audacity of that level of privilege and entitlement, from someone who should be so insignificant…that’s infuriating. I don’t know how the black people here can be so civil to people who would say things like that!
Also, nice catch with the “Darwin” quote. I knew it seemed odd, but I’ve seen Darwin’s writings and thoughts twisted by social Darwinism and racists for a very long time. It makes perfect sense now that we know just where it came from.
LikeLike
Thank you for not censoring the hateful post by Herr Weiss – it’s almost strangely refreshing to see good, old-fashioned, bare-naked hate…not the flimsy claptrap spouted by Bliff, Randy, dave and their like-minded ilk.
Notice that the excuse given for the hate is the same basic drivel that every other emotionally fragile racist uses – family member was wronged by…who? that isn’t really detailed – so that’s the strawman. Also, notice that they appear to be irrationally angry over something that happened years ago; which didn’t even happen to them, personally.
I haven’t seen someone try to twist Darwin’s words like that in years! Wow…
LikeLike
@ Sepultura,
It’s like an inverse theory. The more racism people of color experience, the more racists feel like they’ve been “wronged”! You’d think it’ be the other way around, considering who the victims are, but nope, all racists seem to have a reason to be angry at PoC.
Now if we couple that persecution complex with the whole “Well this white man invented something and I have his complexion so by default I’m special too!” and multiply that with an entire society…and we have the absurdity of racism brought to a level only thought possible in the “Invisible Man” by Ralph Ellison.
LikeLike
@ Ace:
No kidding – I liken it to a person having cognitive dissonance of Eric Cartman-like proportions, LOL
You’d think that the mental gymnastics involved in twisting things out of proportion like that, would result in a more flexible mind! 😎
LikeLike
@sepultura13
Notice that the excuse given for the hate …. family member was wronged by…who? ….Also, notice that they appear to be irrationally angry over something that happened years ago; which didn’t even happen to them, personally.
LAMO over your comment. Isn’t that we whites have been saying about blacks whining over slavery and wrongdoings done 70 plus yrs ago?? Slavery never happened to present day blacks, yet they whine. Wrongdoings (lynching, which peaked in the 1890s) done to blacks decades ago. How often do we hear about Emmett Till and that was in 1955.
Now you know how we feel about your whinings.
LikeLike
Oh where do I begin with you simians…
Did you know that the precedent for legal slavery in the colonies was set by a black african named Anthony Johnson? At first, slavery was not allowed in the colonies, only indentured servitude. Indentured servants could only work unpaid for seven years to cover bringing them to the new world. After that seven years the indentured servants had to be let go and given 20 acres of their own land to start a farm themselves. This included indians and whites not just black servants. When starting their own farms they also employed the use of indentured servants.
Along comes black Anthony Johnson. He did not want to give up his BLACK servants after their 7 years were up so he sued in court to keep them indefinitely and won thus setting the legal precedent for slavery in the colonies. You can this fact in the book “The Legal History of the Color Line”
http://books.google.com/books?id=kezflCVnongC&pg=PA117#v=onepage&q&f=false
The jews were the main perpetrators of the transatlantic slave trade. Don’t believe evil whitey? Just ask The Nation of Islam. They put out a pretty good book documenting this fact called “The Secret Relationship Between Blacks and Jews”.
As to my Darwin quote, it came from the “Origin of Species” which was written long before “The Klansman” which is perhaps why it was quoted there. If you would read anything other than an illustrated tupac biography and just grabbing the first thing that comes up in a google search like the lazy monkeys you are you might know this.
Here is another Darwin qoute for you to chimp over (safely steps behind glass to avoid poo flinging):
‘At some future period, not very distant as measured by centuries, the civilized races of man will almost certainly exterminate, and replace, the savage races throughout the world. At the same time the anthropomorphous apes [that is, the ones which allegedly look like people] … will no doubt be exterminated. The break between man and his nearest allies will then be wider, for it will intervene between man in a more civilized state, as we may hope, even than the Caucasian, and some ape as low as a baboon, instead of as now between the negro or Australian [Aboriginal] and the gorilla’ — Charles Darwin
Oh yeah, that inventor wasn’t just some random white guy. If you would have read, which I am sure you have trouble doing since your average IQ is 85, it was my Great-Grandfather. I am not crying about being wronged by anyone. Again if you would have read he sued AND WON. I have better things to do than to blame all of my or my ancestors short coming on others. I will leave that up to you. At least there is one thing blacks are good at. You are obviously not a very strong or intelligent people if everything was stolen from you as you claim and then you just sit and cry about it lol.
Sports? Music? (if you want to call that garbage music) What great contributions that no one could live without ROFL (wipes away tears of laughter) I gotta get to work. Someone has to pay your welfare. Please go back to your ad hominem attacks and unsubstantiated claims.
LikeLike
@ Sepultura,
I know right ? It’s like that episode where Cartman watched Jimmy make up a funny joke and then slowly but surely began to re imagine it as himself doing all the work, with ridiculous embellishment? In the end he said he invented the joke all himself, complete with dragon slaying and robots?
@ Bliff,
Hello? Lynching still happens? Slavery created the system that Jim Crow (which didn’t officially end until the 60’s and didn’t truly take affect till afterwards) that discriminated against blacks for generations? You realize that the majority of blacks are able to remember those days either through their parents or grandparents? Who were alive in those days?
The only one’s whining about racism are the white people who pretend to be victims as if they’ve been the ones discriminated against based on skin color for centuries. It’s tiresome because it’s just plain childish! Maybe black people would stop “whining” if people like you actually acted like adults and took responsibility instead of putting your fingers in your ears and saying, “Nu uh! In the past! Get over it! But here’s a list of inventions some white guy came up with a hundred years ago!” You know, humility goes a long way, and some does gracefulness. The black community has been more than graceful after generations of that racist bullcrap they dealt with.
LikeLike
3,775 blacks owned over 12,000 slaves in the Americas.
Today in africa blacks own more black slaves than whites owned during slavery in America. Legal slavery in the American Colonies was started by a black man, Anthony Johnson. You were sold into slavery by your own people. Less than 5% of whites in the south owned slaves so why am I blamed for slavery when no one in my family and 95% of other white families never owned slaves?
LikeLike
Here is another one…..before I even try to verify anything you have said, what is 12,000 compared to millions ? I mean really, is this an argument…
Once again, I live in a country where the horrors of holding hundreds of thousands into the millions of people in slavery, are easily recognisable into todays society
White people who live in the USA have to recognise that whether they owned slaves or not, there are obsticles in everyday life for black people in our Ameirican society that are a result of slavery and atitudes from slavery. Where is white recognition of humanity ? Of fairness? Of justice? To be sure there are laws on the books, the strugge is slow and hard with some progress. But the things that caused the opresion are still in effect. They have morphed into new forms but they are the same strains
LikeLike
@B. R. Humanity, fairness, and justice? You have had your reparations and then some. You get free food, free college, free housing, and whitey is constantly bending over backwards to accommodate you people yet less than 15% of the population (blacks) commit 54% of the violent crime in this country and 1/3 of blacks are somewhere in the corrections system. Don’t give me this poverty = crime bullshit. What is the financial gain from rape and murder?
Looks at India, one of the poorest countries in the world. Are they killing each other in record numbers? How many times have whites rebuilt Haiti only for the blacks to revert back to their savage ways after whitey left and destroy it again. My God just look at Detroit. It looks the same as every other majority black area on the planet. Actually it looks a little better than the others. Face it blacks have no place in a civilized society.
I am not defending slavery. I think it is wrong and they should have left your asses in Africa and everyone would be happier. Where would you rather be, there or here? I believe a thank you is in order. You have spent your reparations and then some yet still receive handouts. None of you have ever personally been slaves. Many whites died trying to free your ungrateful asses. Stop crying about the past. Time to get back to work.
LikeLike
@ Uncle Rufus,
Proof or no dice.
Yes, because black people should all blame themselves for slavery, and I suppose indigenous people should blame themselves for the genocide of their people, the Jews should blame themselves for the Holocaust, and the Indians should blame themselves for the British occupation!
Africa is not one country, it is a continent of many countries and cultures with their own laws . So no, Africans didn’t sell ‘themselves’ into slavery. It’s not like they all universally supported that, nor did they predict there’d be a racial edict that would justify their race’s subjugation or enslavement.
Slavery started long before the American colonies in South American and other places that Europeans “colonized”, and slavery existed even before the US became it’s own independent country. Chattel slavery, however something primarily used by white slavers, who developed racist theories in order to justify owning a person and their descendants. That’s how slavery lasted so long. Also, slavery was an almost universally accepted policy in the U.S., so even if all white people did not own slaves, they all almost unanimously supported a society where black people were owned as slaves or treated like slaves after being freed. No one predicted that white slavers would treat black slaves so horribly or brutally. The “norm” was indentured servitude, after all. Not owning millions of people in sub human conditions.
Here’s some slightly more ACCURATE numbers:
8% of all US families owned slaves, while in the South, 33% of families owned slaves and 50% of Confederate soldiers lived in slave-owning households, and that doesn’t consider smuggling. The US population during the 1860 census states that the US had a population of 27,167,529 (excluding black slaves). Out of that, 393,975 named persons held 3,950,546 slaves (again not accounting for smuggling). For those days, that is a lot of people.
Now, take white immigrants and add the complexion protect they received, and you can come to the conclusion that white society was invested in keeping blacks as slaves or in a sub servant position, and the policies inflicted afterwards was a way to punish the black population for the collapsing economy, since the U.S. was not prepared for a slave-free economy, they’d built their country on the backs of slaves, after all. Since all white families enjoyed the benefits of a white supremacist society founded by the principles of slavery (even poor families), all white people during that period bear some manner of responsibility for that society.
Also, here’s some logic for you: Who put a gun to all of white society’s head and said,
“Here’, take millions of these people, treat them like cattle, kill them by the millions, make them work without pay for hundreds of years, and refuse to free them even if a war might result. Create racist dogma to excuse holding them as slaves instead of just using prisoners or indentured servants to do the work, since that would be cheaper! Then free them when it’s not beneficial, blame them for your society’s problems, and create Black Codes and Jim Crow so that they have to live in slavery-like conditions after the fact! Make sure they can’t get decent jobs, education, or health care, and be sure to not let them vote or own big businesses under pain of Klan violence until the late sixties! Make sure that black soldiers can be drafted but cannot receive the GI Bill until a long time after it’s been created! Then make sure you still receive higher pay, recognition and better facilities! You must do this or else you will die!” No one. White people were not forced to take slaves, to own them for hundreds of years, or treat them like animals. They were not forced to deny them rights and person hood even after they were freed. They chose to. If they truly shared no real blame in that, slavery and the racist institution would have ended a long time ago. If people today didn’t still benefit from that institution, there wouldn’t be people wishing to return to a “simpler” time where blacks “knew their place” and it was acceptable to call people dehumanizing slurs. There wouldn’t be people sitting here defending those racists institutions even though they know damn well that they are unfair and hurt innocent people.
White people “today” are not blamed for slavery. They’re blamed for benefiting from the legacy of that slavery and doing all they can to keep receiving the privileges that arose from that.
Oh and here’s some more logic:
If you don’t want the “blame” from slavery, why do you get the “praise” from inventions and achievements from that era? Can’t have it both ways.
@ B. R.
Spot on.
LikeLike
LAMO over your comment.
Wrong! You are laughing because you have been drinking steadily since morning.
Less than 5% of whites in the south owned slaves so why am I blamed for slavery when no one in my family and 95% of other white families never owned slaves?
Why not? You better stop imbibing to.
LikeLike
Who is really is benefiting from slavery of the past today? The blacks that use it as a means to extort money from hard working whites or the whites that are made to feel guilt from something that no one in their family is guilty of? Let’s cut your welfare I mean reparations by 93% and it might be a little more accurate. Do you honestly think that blacks were the only slaves in history? Slavs were the preferred slaves of Rome and is where the terms slave comes from. Do we owe the slavic people reparations? No? So only blacks are entitled to them? Who is the racist now?
As usual the people that scream racist the loudest are the biggest racists of them all.
I don’t know why I even bother. Arguing with blacks is like arguing with small children. They both have the same mental capacity and disposition. Judging by the censorship of Mr Whites last counter argument you people are clearly not capable of an open and honest debate without censorship to make yourselves look good. Enjoy your one sided monkey chatter.
LikeLike
Uncle Rufus,
you do know that Ace is white, right?
and oh, by the way, just like whites… blacks, asians, hispanics, and immigrants like me, pay into the Federal government tax system which feeds government programs like welfare, a program where the largest receivers are white.
“CBS points out that only nine percent of Iowans on food stamps are black — and 84 percent are white. Nationally, 39 percent of welfare recipients are white, 37 percent are black, and 17 percent are Hispanic. So Santorum’s decision to single out black welfare recipients plays right into insulting — and inaccurate — stereotypes of the kind of people some voters might expect to want a “handout.”
Please stick to the facts.
LikeLike
Who is really is benefiting from slavery of the past today?
The women in female-led relationships. The men are losers in this. You see, men view marriage as a form of indentured bondage(if they manage to get a divorce), or chattel slavery(if they can’t cut the old ball and chain loose).
Do you honestly think that blacks were the only slaves in history?
No, billions of men past and present can attest to the slavery that is marriage. I say bring back polyandry. What say you ladies?
As usual the people that scream racist the loudest are the biggest racists of them all.
RACISS!(this is how black people say it according to Jay from Philly)
I don’t know why I even bother.
Nor does anyone else.
They both have the same mental capacity and disposition.
What does that say about your ‘intellect’ that you would even try?
LikeLike
@Linda
The black welfare percentages in Iowa? Lol tete are almost no blacks in Iowa.
As for the national percentages I get this argument all the time.”There are more whites on welfare”. Now let’s look at this. Of the total number of welfare recipients 39% are white and 37% are black. I think you forgot to add that blacks make up less than 15% of the US population. So it looks to me that of the total number of whites and the total number of blacks in the US there is a dramatically higher percentage of blacks per capita on welfare than whites.
If you don’t like it here I will gladly pay for your one way ticket back where you came from where you will be free from whiteys handouts, I mean oppression. I swear blacks are the biggest crybabies on this planet. No one wants to live around them, not even other blacks. Section 8 anyone?
LikeLike
@ Linda,
Well I’m not white but I am a member of a PoC group that is usually used as a “model minority” example by racists in order to put down black people. Still, your point is exactly spot on.
@ Uncle Rufus,
What money have black people “extorted” from you you pathetic little thing? Your lucky black people want equality instead of wanting to put you in the position their ancestors were in. You’d fall apart without your privilege to hold you up. What “paycheck” does any black person take from you, when they pay into the same damn system you do, and yet you benefit the most from? If your so hardworking, work hard without thinking your entitled to some unearned advantage! But that’d be too hard, after all, American society is built on racism. Americans didn’t hold Slavics as slaves or hell yes they’d be entitled to some manner of reparations, whether that be money in wages earned or a freaking apology. And as I recall, the slaves of Rome were allowed to be citizens and were often treated much better. But I suppose you’d much rather leave facts out to support your idiot agenda. That’s obviously why you chose to ignore everything in my reply except for what you cherry picked out. Racism was an evil institution and anyone who supports it or supports a society that uses it’s principles is just as evil. The only person who brought up reparations is you, so keep imaging that your somehow being persecuted like the brats you racists are .
“As usual the people that scream racist the loudest are the biggest racists of them all.”
Says the person who compares blacks to children, extortionists, and monkeys? Apparently black people must subject themselves to the stupidity of racists and their evil slurs in order for you to feel like Mr. White has been treated fairly? Because racial slurs are normal, and fair right? White people are not children who should have their hand held after they curse and throw muck around! If you can’t handle an environment where white people don’t get to treat black people like crap and get away with it, then you are incapable of holding any logical debate, and should return to your hole. You are a vile thing, who clearly cannot handle any discussion that doesn’t’ cater to your racist views, have fun in your racist circle jerk.
‘
LikeLike
Great posts , Ace and Linda , you set him up for the final knockout punch, from the absolute Queen of detecting losers on this blog , Herneith
Yes, lets have quotas , social programs that are well thought out, I want capatalism with a concience, yes, I want to give all Americans a shot out here.
YOu know Rufus, Im white ( I think Ace implied he is mixed, you can correct me if Im wrong, Ace), and, what I see, after the extremly well put words by Ace on it, realters in northern cities, coluding with polititions to create white flight, and, making ghettos. Whites created that, and they need to pay for that. They can start with funneling money into schools that have been severly neglected. How come I keep hearing reports about in the poorer neighborhoods, the schools are terrible. They arnt fair, they dont have the same attention as the schools in more elite neighborhoods.
Yes, Im white and I want programs that are going to help the Ameicans that keep getting obsticles thrown at them and people like you only try to keep them down. I want every one to get a fair chance. Keep the hiring quotas going, because people like you will never give it up.
LikeLike
@ B.R.
Thanks, it went from concise, to fire and brimstone, to utter hilarity.
I am mixed, yes, I also feel that there needs to be some personal responsibility on all fronts. No one wants special treatment, they just want equal and fair treatment, the only ones invested in anything otherwise are racists or bigots who need “isms” to support their privilege.
You have a great point there. if racists spent as much time trying to solve the problems that they like to complain about we’d have a better society. They’ll complain about affirmative action, potential “reparations” or even social apologies but they won’t do anything about the system that turns those things into requirements for any sort of stability.
It’s depressing that people seem to believe that the achievements of the past secure their personal privilege, but refuse to recognize how the awful crimes of the past requires their acknowledgement as well.
I wonder what would happen if people could really go back in time, and laud the inventions of the era while ignoring the “difficult” parts, and take no responsibility for them?
LikeLike
Now that they finally released my comment go back and read it.
@ Ace
Speaking of responsibility, when are blacks going to take responsibility for their overwhelming criminality? When is the black community going to stop blaming all of their shortcomings on others and clean up their own house instead of always expecting “da gubment” to fix everything for them?
LikeLike
@Abagond
I’d like to endorse some of the earlier praises for un-censoring these absurd comments from the likes of “Mr white” to continue. Just reading whats transpired here I’ve learn’t that little something extra about how the American white racist psyche sustains and nurtures itself.
So too are the challenging corrective comments I’ve read from Ace, B.R and Linda. (Not forgetting the hilariously funny ones from Herneith too!!!)
I’ve yet to come across a truly knowledgeable, informed overt and self proclaimed white racist. Perhaps, because that would be a contradiction in terms!!!
The thing that always puzzles me with the likes of Mr White and his side kick Uncle Rufus is this:
(1) What they classify as “white” or European derived has only been around for the last 10,000 years (Mr white: Do your own research on the internet to find the scientific studies on this or get back to me if you need more help)
(2) Without the physical presence of African peoples (or POC) on this planet in the first place “white”people would never have survived to this day. Further their continued future survival is still dependent on us
(3) This present system of Western built society is falling apart and crumbling as we debate. Not because of the failings of Black people or POC. But because of the inability of specific elite groups of white people to understand and appreciate how their own short-sighted actions and behaviors have directly contributed to this fall.
(4) The distinct lack of any perceived human quality to “FEEL” compassion or empathy for people other than those they perceive as themselves. This also extends to animals (other than cats and dogs) and their environment.
These are some of the things that puzzle me yet they never seem to view these things as an issue just like the scientifically discredited biological notion of Race. (2003 – The Human Genome project)
Still it makes great reading and a good laugh…LOL!!!
LikeLike
The quote Mr. White said in the beginning was actually written by Thomas Dixon. He wrote the book ‘The Clansmen’ which would later inspire the movie ‘Birth of a Nation.’
LikeLike
@ Ace:
LMAO – that’s pretty much the episode I was imagining!!
Or, how about the one where Cartman was offing all of his stuffed animals and using his doll, ‘Polly PrissyPants’, as an alter ego to do so. In his self-dialogue at the end, ‘Polly’ says that they can blame the crimes on the aptly named ‘Token Black’, to which Cartman replies: “You forgot one thing…ever since Obama was elected president, you can’t blame a black person for anything!”
That’s it in a nutshell, no?
😎
LikeLike
@Kwamla
Without the physical presence of African peoples (or POC) on this planet in the first place “white”people would never have survived to this day. Further their continued future survival is still dependent on us
Interesting comment. How does white survival depend on blacks? Please expound.
LikeLike
Great post, Ace and Kwamla ( Ive followed your posts for a long time and always enjoyed them)
First Mr White, its our house, all of our house, and we created it, we created all the horrible conditions that can lead to someone thinking a criminal life is an option, that is why white people like me and you have a responsibility to the people who have been wronged, to try to give everyone an equal shot. Like Ace sais, no one is looking for handouts.
What music do you like , Mr White? American white life without black American invention , would be drinking beer and yelling, getting in a car and going out mooning people and lighting flatulance, as a matter of fact , there is very little American music that hasnt been affected by black Americans. Only a fool doesnt value music in their life , of course excluding deaf people).
That book, written by a computor programmer has a tone I dont trust, Ill examine it more. I trust Abagond’s research over yours.
So what if it happens to be a fact that some mixed people owned slaves or how it really started…the obviously overwelming injustice about slavery in the Americas is squarly on white shoulders and whites should be intimitly responsible for addressing these injustices
LikeLike
@ Bliff
Africa is rich in natural resources and human resources. So who is feeding who?
However, this is only part of the story. The rest you would soon find if you began to seriously start exploring point (4)
LikeLike
@Kwamla
Agreed, Africa is rich in natural resources. However, it is non-africans who valued and developed these resources, not Africans. Africans provided brute labor, but the laborers are not generally considered the developers.
This still does not show that “white peoples’ future survival depends on us”. It’s not the Africans we are dependent on; you guys are way overdependent on us for your development. Doesn’t look like Africans could do it themselves. We just need your natural resources, which we cold and have gotten ourselves.
OK, thanks for response. As I expected, your point is not valid.
LikeLike
@ Bliff
These two points of mine above are interrelated:
Unfortunately, your continued insistence to see these points as not valid perils your continued existence. The fact that you are a regular visitor to Abagond’s site, where you can find information like this, should tell you something about your own innate survival instincts…
LikeLike
@Kwamla
This present system of Western built society is falling apart and crumbling as we debate.</i.
Highly generalized. What does this mean??
The distinct lack of any perceived human quality to “FEEL” compassion or empathy for people other than those they perceive as themselves.
Again, highly generalized. Hasn’t ‘man’s inhumanity to man’ been a problem all throughout history? Why the panic now?
Jesu’ taught 2000 yrs ago, in a much simpler time, yet they needed his teachings then as much as now. Yet the world, despite all it’s problems, hasn’t fallen apart in 2000 yrs.
So, again, what are you saying in particular, and why panic now?
LikeLike
Kwamla, did you take note of that ? Did you notice the spot on comedic delivery, worthy of a Jack Benny dead pan look to the side and a hand up on the face ? Now that is stand up comedy that is really hard to find these days….
LikeLike
Oh, by the way, Mr White, funny with the Darwin quotes, they sound phony to me, but, who am I, but , one thing I can say, as far as survival against all Darwinian odds you can throw at a people, black people brought as slaves from Africa to the Americas should be humbly bowed to as incredible examples as people who have survived against the odds that would destroy many other people. They survived and thrived, in any sence that you can describe that word, especiay inventing the cultures of anywhere they were brought to.
I am proud to say that I learned so much about survival and how to carry myself through life from my black American collegues.
LikeLike
@ Mr. White,
You first! Once white people take responsibility for their actions, stop derailing and tell the “government” (Oh, so classy Mr. White, your such an expert on “black speech”) to stop cleaning up their own messes, maybe they’ll have the right to ask blacks to do the same.
@ Sepultura,
Oh yes, that was probably the best thing I ever saw. And the funniest part was that I heard that line before Cartman said it. It made the part where Randy marsh blamed Obama for getting himself fired from his job by acting like an idiot (during the election episode) even more hilarious in hindsight.
@ Bliff,
Yep! Because as we all know, it’s the people who showed up with guns and shot people until they all submitted who developed the resources, not the people who actually had to do the work!
Oh I can totally use this now. Next time i work in a group for my grad-studies, I’m going to make everyone else do the work and then when my professor fails my butt I’m going to use this gem:
“Agreed, My group’s assignment was full of good content. However, it is I who valued and developed this work, not the others. My groupmates provided brute labor, but the laborers are not generally considered the developers.”
Then I”ll claim my professor a black racist because he failed my butt for such a weird train of logic.
By that logic, shouldn’t you take credit for slavery, attempted genocide, destabilization and everything else that came with the European grab for Africa? Since white people clearly “developed” that resource? Odd that I don’t see any takers there.
LikeLike
@ B.R.
Great point up there. Black people have been put through a lot and it’s just ridiculous that people are here trying to justify slavery and all manner of horrible things by using the cultural posturing argument .
LikeLike
I dont know , Ace, these people really make lame posts, its like we created sock puppets to set up soft balls that we just slam out of the park…ridiculas is the right word…
LikeLike
Typical racist people against blacks. One day we blacks will be on top and your off springs better be ready. Because we blacks are getting sick of being look down at.
LikeLike
Uncle Rooter: “Slavs were the preferred slaves of Rome and is where the terms slave comes from. Do we owe the slavic people reparations? No? So only blacks are entitled to them? Who is the racist now?”
The country in question is the US; not ancient Rome. Why would the US owe Slavic peoples reparations due to their ancestors’ enslavement in ancient Rome (or, for that matter, Italy of the last 400 years)? Huh?
First Convenient Lies and now this dud….*smh*
LikeLike
Uncle Rooter: “Enjoy your one sided monkey chatter.”
And enjoy eating the body lice you fellows pick from each others fur back at HBD headquarters. Oh, and while you’re pillaging their back hair for snacks, make sure to inform your pals that you, yourself, are a monumental dud, and that they should’ve known better than to send out someone who was repeatedly (and intentionally) dropped on his head as an infant.
I can see all the dents in your head from here
LikeLike
“Black people did it too!”
No, not really. But good job on the SuperSoaker, black people. That seems pretty clever.
LikeLike
just because white people are succesful makes them racist lmfao, and the whole slavery thing , black people sold there own people to the whites, the spanish were far worse than the whites when it came to slavery but no mention of that. whites also send millions of pounds in aid to poor black countrys, medicine and vaccines. whites the first to show up when theres been some natural disaster, and it aint through guilt, its because they can so they do, whites invented things so what. lets see what would happen if whites sat down and decided to do nothing and let every other race run the show.if the state of these non white countries is anythingf to go by the world would be crying out for white people to sort it. and dont tell me that whites are responsible for the state of other non white countries either. i supose its white peoples fault that its raining, or not raining, maybe we should scrap all the inventions white people have created and see how the world copes without there so called evil inventions. create your own wealth stop blaiming whites for everything thats wrong in your life. as for focusing on the evils, well thats just typical of such a negative race of people, lets all woler in the bad stuff and get at each others throats, lets point the finger and get nothing done. im white im happy and im succesful, my ancestors paved the way for me to be like this, i will be damned if i shal feel guilty for the hard work that they did, and im certainly not gonna just hand it over, we give enough hand outs with out having to hand over our homes jobs and everything else just to make you happy.
LikeLike
A motto to live by, “Kill them all, and let God sort them out!” Stop allowing the Muslims, Hispanics or any other race besides European WHITES into the U.S.A. NOW. Stop all other immigration into the U.S.A. Deport all Muslims, Hispanics, etc. The WHITE MAN made this Country Great. No one else!!!! Blacks, Asians, etc. were a tool. The tool is broken and it cost more to fix it than it is worth. The white man must remain in power or all will be lost.
LikeLike
Well, it’s the same reason as to Blacks always bragging that they can out sing, play basketball, or out dance White people.
Everyone likes to be link to greatness, only an idiots wouldn’t do so. That’s what.
It’s like the cute girl vs the ugly one. She has an advantage and runs with it…
LikeLike
Yeah great black inventions: the rock, the stick, AIDS. Subhuman savages is what they are, they have always been, and it is what they will always be. It was a terrible mistake to bring them over here as farm labor. Terrible mistake. We should get them back to Africa right away, so that they don’t have to be around us terrible racists anymore. They can get back to living the way they would prefer. You know, running around naked eating one another.
LikeLike
But ‘Mike’, we think you’re wonderful! Clown.
LikeLike
@Herneith
”But ‘Mike’, we think you’re wonderful! Clown”
So true because really we don’t! We, (everyone on this blog). all find him repulsive and ignorant!
I hate ignorance and bigotry.
LikeLike
Mike
Oh Mike, sweetie, did someone bruise your fee fees, or did they just bruise your head? 🙂
LikeLike
Mike,
I won’t tell you to perform a certain coarse act upon yourself because I respect this blog in refraining from using such language, but I think you know what I’m talking about.
LikeLike
the only things whites invented was white supremacy
LikeLike
None of these answers are accurate at all. Black invention myths became mainstream because no one had internet at the time to do the research. Many white people came up with the ideas before blacks did. Whites had to make things more equal so they made up these inventions for blacks.
Here is the truth
http://tightrope.cc/Black-Invention-Myths.htm
LikeLike