The following is based mainly on chapter four of “Brainwashed” (2010) by Tom Burrell:
Despite the idea of “black is beautiful” back in the 1960s and 1970s, blacks in America still have a whitened idea of beauty: light skin, long, flowing hair, thin lips, thin nose, etc.
When Kiri Davis carried out the famous Clark Doll Experiment of the 1940s among black girls in Harlem in 2006 she found little had changed over the past 60 years: most black girls still thought white dolls were prettier than the black ones – even though skin colour was the only physical difference between them.
There is absolutely nothing wrong with the natural looks of black people. But blacks have been brainwashed to think otherwise:
- by hundreds of years of slavery,
- by television, magazines and advertising –
- and even by one’s own family.
For example: How can a girl be proud of her natural hair when she never sees her mother wearing her hair in a natural style? What in the world is she supposed to think?
And it is not just the white media that sends out this message – so does the black media. Look at hip hop videos, for example.
Or look at the hair of the top black female singers. For this week in June 2011 on the R&B charts they are: Kelly Rowland, Marsha Ambrosius, Jill Scott, Nicki Minaj, Kelly Price, Keri Hilson, Rihanna and Ledisi. Only three commonly wear their hair in a natural style.
Hair becomes the hot button issue because while plastic surgery is beyond the reach of most black people, a $15 box of relaxer is not. Of all the things that make black people look different from white people, hair is the easiest to change. Even so, blacks in America spend nearly a billion dollars a year on plastic surgery.
In the 1960s and 1970s there was, for about ten years, the whole “black is beautiful” thing. Afros and all that. But it did not last: older people never bought into it and younger people, sooner or later, had to make a living, which for most meant working for a white employer and not making white people too afraid or uncomfortable.
In the short term it is easier to go along to get along, to not rock the boat, to give into the current, whitened ideas of beauty. But in the long term the costs are high because it maintains not just white ideas of beauty but of white people as “normal” and better.
So what is the answer? To change what you can: the messages that you send and receive. In short, to practise counter-propaganda:
- By being the example of natural beauty to other blacks, to whites and particularly to your children.
- By not feeding your head with stereotypes.
- By watching what sort of ideas about black beauty unthinkingly come out of your mouth. Instead of “ugly, black bitch”, what about “beautiful, beloved sister”?
See also:
“But in the long term the costs are high because it maintains not just white ideas of beauty but of white people as “normal” and better.”
Attractiveness isn’t related to self-esteem. It actually is possible to prefer Euro or “non-black” looks and be totally proud or yourself & race.
“blacks in America still have a whitened idea of beauty: light skin, long, flowing hair, thin lips, thin nose, etc.”
-Long hair is a whitened idea of beauty? I used to think that was inherent for the longest. I thought most guys worldwide preferred longer hair. I love long hair. The first time I noticed how much I liked it was in elementary school when I had my first real crush. The girl was black, chocolate-skinned and she had really long shiny hair.
-I had no idea Black people preferred thin lips. I don’t like them at all and I’ve never met anyone who spoke of that trait in admiration. I always thought women like this were considered attractive among black folks. She has really beautiful lips!
-I don’t think black people prefer thin noses. People worldwide just don’t like relatively big(or small) features. If a girl’s nose is too wide, then it’s probably bigger and more than likely considered unattractive by most, regardless of culture.
When Kiri Davis carried out the famous Clark Doll Experiment of the 1940s among black girls in Harlem in 2006
A filmmaker????
LikeLike
Cynic doesn’t know good lips.
LikeLike
This post seems like it was purposely written for Cynics!!!
Great post Abagond
LikeLike
“Brainwashed” Great Book.
“Afros and all that. But it did not last: older people never bought into it and younger people, sooner or later, had to make a living, which for most meant working for a white employer and not making white people too afraid or uncomfortable.”
This seems to mainly apply to BW I assume. BM don’t seem to have this issue. Also big afro’s are a bit extreme anyway, kind of like a mowhawk or really long hair on a white guy.
There is nothing inherently scary about a BP’s natural hair to a WP. If a WP is scared of blacks, hairstyles aren’t going to make a difference.
I don’t know what it was like in the 70’s but now days To WP natural hair is a visual cue that the BP in question is not “ghetto” and therefor not threatening. At least that’s how most whites see it I think. Now days natural hair is actually seen as a sign of sophistication by WP.
LikeLike
@jas0nburns I have to agree with you about white people being afraid of blacks.
If you hair seems to catch them off guard it’s probably more because they are unfamiliar or not accustomed to seeing hair that way. As for a large afro being akin to a mowhawk…I have to say that I disagree. If an individual with straight hair has extremely long hair, it’s generally considered okay unless it’s down around the hips or more. A large afro is just the equal of really long straight hair. It just stands up rather than laying down. But there are ways to make it look more presentable than simply wearing it all over the place.
And confidence is the core issue. None of what the world thinks should matter to anyone if they know they look good, presentable, and feel good about themselves. I was told once in elementary school that it’s not what you wear …it’s how you carry yourself while you’re wearing it, and the same adage should be applied to how you see yourself and walk out of the house every day.
LikeLike
Kwamla, where have you been hiding?
LikeLike
My hair is long enough that as a ponytail it goes between my shoulderblades, I also sport a huge goatee, mustaches, I have tattoos, I do not wear a tie nor I dress in suit. And yes, I am an white collar worker :-D.
To answer that question on the headline: I have no f****ng idea. This is 2011 and we are still dealing with this crap. It is hard to believe.
LikeLike
Very good post, Abagond. Even though I was raised with the “black is beautiful” mindset, I would still get my hair pressed for special occassions as a girl and then graduated as an adult to perms. Something in me “snapped” this past fall and I chopped off the last remnants of my perm and am now wearing a twa (teeney, weeney, afro) well, it’s not so teeney at the moment. But its all natural, all mine, and beautifully curly and I love it. I was at a work function and a brother came up to me to commend me on my courage. Courage! for wearing my hair exactly as it grows out of my head. That’s so crazy.
Anyway, poking around the internet and seeing the blatant disrespect toward black women and then how we throw our money away on potions meant to straighten our hair, weaves, the whole nine trying to look like the oppressor finally got to me. I understand why a lot of black women prefer their weave and relaxers. When you are constantly told you can’t be pretty without hair like that its hard not to harbor those feelings. All the princesses, vixens, singers, actresses have that flowing hair. It’s synonymous with femininity. Pretty girls have long, straight hair right? Not all of them. I’m still trying to leave that mindset behind completely. Certainly seeing all the beautiful sisters in their versatile natural styles helps dispell this false belief.
Black women are beautiful just the way they are, and weaves and perms do not add to that; they detract from that. And yes, they send a message that we feel that our beauty does not stack up to the beauty of non-black women with straight hair. This will not change until the culture changes. Until yes, the first lady, Beyonce and every other prominent black woman can wear a natural style and it be seen as mainstream. I don’t have that much hope. Natural hair is still seen as “alternative” and radical and bohemian. Sad but true.
LikeLike
Shiva Threatts said, If your hair seems to catch them off guard it’s probably more because they are unfamiliar or not accustomed to seeing hair that way. As for a large afro being akin to a mowhawk…I have to say that I disagree.
Your response sounds more realistic to me, though I’m sure there are a few people out there who are afraid. I’ve never had many white friends so I can’t give an accurate account of the things white people say about black hair when BP aren’t around, but I do know that what I’ve seen most often is more like total unfamiliarity, disrespect for the differences in texture, and/or jealousy.
None of these reactions come out as positive moments for BP, though. It ends up with WP putting their hands on someone else’s head, asking ignorant or inappropriate questions, or giving backhanded compliments. All of which shows that WP, despite having “black friends,” don’t get close enough to their black friends to be intimately acquainted with their hair. It remains foreign to WP and keeps white hair in the “norm” of beauty standards.
jas0nburns said, Also big afros are a bit extreme anyway, kind of like a mowhawk
I can see how you make this comparison because mohawks are one of few white hairstyles that stand above the head. But I think Afros shouldn’t be in the extreme hair category as they’re simply long black hair. Mohawks require extreme measures to make them stand up, and they’re threatening on WP because they’re spiky and hard. I think there is more to an afro though, and it has to do with making the wearer of the afro appear larger and thus, more powerful and self-confident. And THAT is what I believe is more threatening to WP about Afros. That’s just my 2 cents though.
LikeLike
“But I think Afros shouldn’t be in the extreme hair category as they’re simply long black hair.”
well, there’s Mohawks and then there’s Mohawks, but yeah i suppose an afro would be more similar to just long hair on a white person. So it’s no coincidence that both styles were popular in the 70’s.
“I think there is more to an afro though, and it has to do with making the wearer of the afro appear larger and thus, more powerful and self-confident. And THAT is what I believe is more threatening to WP about Afros.”
but you could say that exact same thing about a Mohawk.
LikeLike
” the wearer of the afro appears larger and thus, more powerful and self-confident “
LikeLike
lol king
yes, Phil Spektor is super intimidating.
LikeLike
Wow. He’s…hotter than burnt toast.
LikeLike
I read the book, and it helps support what I’ve been thinking for a long time. What do you think about the book, Abagond?
As a side note wasn’t there a brief Afrocentric period during the late 80’s to early 90’s, in entertainment and fashion at least?
Also, I personally think black women with Afros, big lips and dark skin are sexy to me.
LikeLike
but you could say that exact same thing about a Mohawk.
I couldn’t say something even remotely similar. Mohawks from the front appear as a spike sticking out of the top of the head. They take place only down the center of the head. Afros can be seen from all angles. Mohawks, to me, are meant to be “different” and to take the wearer so far outside of the “norm” that people stop and pay attention and possibly feel intimidated. Afros are natural hairstyles. They’re not cries for attention or worn *only* for the sake of being different. That’s the distinction I make.
LikeLike
I avoid talking with black women about hair as much as I avoid talking with them about religion, it’s more often than not, a fruitless conversation.
I’ve said it a million times, the very idea of a “beautiful woman” is racialized. I think weaves and relaxers take away something special from black womens’ looks. At age 13 I realized it looked clownish, cut it all off and have been natural ever since. It’s not just the effects of daughters seeing their mothers not wearing their own hair, what about the sons? He will most likely grow into one of these black men that another black woman’s daughter thinks she will not be able to attract without effing her hair up. Given the history of black people, when we “prefer” other peoples features it says alot. I get it, no one wants to admit to being the self hating black to any degree, because then you’re branded a loser, and so the walls go up and progress on the issue comes to a crawl.
LikeLike
and younger people, sooner or later, had to make a living, which for most meant working for a white employer and not making white people too afraid or uncomfortable.
How quickly folks often forget little tidbits like these.
LikeLike
@Gen
Nobody who self-hate even thinks of themselves as self-hating, so no; they will not admit as much. That’s because the loathing is often so buried beneath the surface it’s entirely subconscious. When you are the type of person who just “knows” light-skinned people are more beautiful that hair is “good” or “bad” you’re the victim of internalized oppression, pure and simple. Also (slightly off topic) I want to mention that I don’t think of hair straightening and weaving as a true choice. Not when it’s being done to appease white employers, one’s family or to appear more sexually attractive because you don’t feel like a “real” woman unless you’re shaking long silky strands about. If we had a history of being recognized as beautiful women in our own right, maybe choosing to alter our natural hair texture would represent some type of choice.
LikeLike
“blacks in America still have a whitened idea of beauty…. flowing hair”
I slightly disagree with this. I believe most black people, especially women, wish they had softer textured hair. A softer texture does not exactly mean straight/European hair, it just means less kinky. Their are hair types that can still achieve an Afro(obviously not flowing hair), but a lot of black people will still consider it “good hair” bc it is less kinky.
Here’s a good example of non-white hair textures that many blacks would label “good”:
Noemie Lenoir
Corrine Bailey rae
I’ve reached the maximum amount of links b4 I get damned to e-purgatory. 😦
I will even say Yaya Dacosta, Marsha Ambrosius, Jill Scott would be thrusted into the “good hair” category by some blacks.
I also think it is an incredibly myopic view to assume that every black woman with a perm is self-hating. Sometimes she is simply conforming bc that is whatever other black girl around her is doing and other times she simply just doesn’t like her hair. Not every blk girl sees her hair texture as an extension of herself and her race.
LikeLike
-“Long hair is a whitened idea of beauty? I used to think that was inherent for the longest. I thought most guys worldwide preferred longer hair. I love long hair. The first time I noticed how much I liked it was in elementary school when I had my first real crush. The girl was black, chocolate-skinned and she had really long shiny hair”
Co-signed. I never thought of long+non=black. Maybe because I used to seeing blacks with long and different textured hair. I never think of hair not that serious. I love long hair. I don’t really like short head or bald heads. I have have shiny hair so I never thought of it a white feature. Same thing for noses. I don’t care for bignoses/nostils, thin lips, thin hair, big jaws, big butts, and flat chests. I have no idea that falls into.
“Nobody who self-hate even thinks of themselves as self-hating, so no; they will not admit as much. That’s because the loathing is often so buried beneath the surface it’s entirely subconscious. When you are the type of person who just “knows” light-skinned people are more beautiful that hair is “good” or “bad” you’re the victim of internalized oppression, pure and simple. Also (slightly off topic) I want to mention that I don’t think of hair straightening and weaving as a true choice. Not when it’s being done to appease white employers, one’s family or to appear more sexually attractive because you don’t feel like a “real” woman unless you’re shaking long silky strands about. If we had a history of being recognized as beautiful women in our own right, maybe choosing to alter our natural hair texture would represent some type of choice.”
Is a lightskined Creole woman with European feautures that prefers light skin,thin lips, and long straight hair self-hatred ? I don’t see how can that be if the person has said features themselves. I think being raised in an enviroment that promotes that opposite or next to none features that you have causes self-hatred. I was raised around the black is beautiful crowd and had alot of self hatred of myself because I didn’t look like them.( They have dark brown skin, thick lips, black woolly hair, high cheekbones, Egyptian almond-shaped eyes and a bottom that sticks out.) The people at my school used to call me ugly because I didn’t look like what a “real” black person should look. My eyes were too small and slanted, my hair wasn’t the right texture or hair color, my nose was too small, my butt was too flat, my lips were too dark and skin was too red. The problem stems from the effects of racism and people wanting to be special. Now I tell people to go F*** themselvesbecause I love my features and they have issuses. I love my East/North African/Black Indian roots!
“None of these reactions come out as positive moments for BP, though. It ends up with WP putting their hands on someone else’s head, asking ignorant or inappropriate questions, or giving backhanded compliments. All of which shows that WP, despite having “black friends,” don’t get close enough to their black friends to be intimately acquainted with their hair. It remains foreign to WP and keeps white hair in the “norm” of beauty standards. ”
True. Back in 90s, bw had a harder time being accepted for wearing natural hair. Some women could lose their jobs and be passed over on job interviews. I glad that it’s changing slowing. But I think in general, black folks care WAAY too much hair. They need to stop trying to make their hair a statement. I think believe for what I’ve seen, that afros are more acceptable dreaklocks. I know alot of people (black and white) that veiw dreadlocks as ugly and dirty, but I love dreads. Dreadlocks on guys are hot!
LikeLike
Edit :But I think in general, black folks care WAAY too much about hair.
LikeLike
One of my friends who is black and used to rock dreads said he got pulled over more because of his hair, so i guess it is a real factor. I can’t understand why it would make a difference really.
Also, could someone please talk about the fact that black men do not relax their hair anymore like they did in the 50’s-60’s. it seems important to note that black men did this relaxing stuff than stopped completely, while women continued to do it.
So crazy that hair is this big political thing if your black. Maybe that’s why most black guys shave their heads, that’s exactly what I would do!!! So there is an example of a black male privilege I suppose. BW don’t have that option and must play the hair game.
LikeLike
@jasonburns – I think it was the fact that styles changed. The permed style hair that white men were wearing and black men emulating into the mid-sixties went out of vogue when the Beatles came along and white men started letting their hair grow long. For black men to follow suit would have been odd and difficult. Just speculaton. I wasn’t there, so maybe some of you who were around in that era can speak more coherently to this phenomenon. It’s an interesting question you raise.
LikeLike
Bottom line: no other people on this Earth have been systematically brainwashed into thinking they’re ugly than black people. From skin color to hair texture. Of course everyone wants hair that is easy to care for, but most black people have NEVER had any appreciation whatsoever for the hair they were born with. Most of us don’t even know how to care for it, and deep down we think it’s ugly, it’s “bad” “kinky” “dirty” “knotty” “masculine on women” what have you. That’s is fact. Like it or not, our hair IS political. Up until recently if they saw you coming with an afro or dreads you weren’t getting the job. Remember that whole Glamour Magazine Business when the woman said afro-textured hair was a no-no? When was that? A year or two ago? And how long ago was it that New Yorker Magazine put a cartoon on its cover of Michelle Obama sporting an afro and a machine gun? Not to mention you ever notice clown costumes? The wigs are always afros of every color in the rainbow. That *isht sends a message. If you ask me, as a people we care far too little about how we present ourselves and how we are in turn depicted in the media. I didn’t make it that way. I wish it wasn’t that way but when you have 99.9% of prominent black females perming and wearing hair on their heads that isn’t theirs I call that an issue and its not my fault when people don’t seem to get it raving on about their choices or how white women get weave too knowing damn well that is not the issue. The issue is that on a personally level we may not hate ourselves; but on a cultural level and on a subconscious level we continue to act in ways that suggest a very deep self-hatred indeed.
LikeLike
Okay I am going to over-quote bc this contains a lot of information I believe some people might find interesting/beneficial.
Cynic: Attractiveness isn’t related to self-esteem. It actually is possible to prefer Euro or “non-black” looks and be totally proud or yourself & race.
-“First, people’s attractiveness is surprisingly unrelated to their self-esteem and happiness (Diener et al., 1995; Major et al., 1984). One reason may be that, except after comparing themselves with superattractive people, few people (thanks, perhaps, to the mere exposure effect) view themselves as unattractive (Thornton & Moore, 1993). Another reason is that strikingly attractive people are sometimes suspicious that praise for their work may simply be a reaction to their looks. When less attractive people are praised, the are more likely to accept it as sincere (Berscheid, 1981).”(Myers 722)
This next part is related to the subject at hand, but not any of my quotes. The main point is that culture usually determines attractiveness.
“The standards by which judges crown Miss Universe hardly apply to the whole planet. Rather, beauty is in the eye of the culture–out standards for beauty reflect our time and place. Hoping to look attractive, people in different cultures have pierced and hair. They have gorged themselves to achieve a full figure or liposuctioned fat to achieve a slim one, applied chemicals hoping to rid themselves of unwanted hair or to regrow wanted hair, strapped on leather garments to make thier breast seem smaller or surgically filled their breasts with silicone and put on Wonderbras to make them look bigger.”(Myers 722)
After that Myers goes on to talk about beauty concepts that appear to be inherent.
Cynic: I don’t think black people prefer thin noses. People worldwide just don’t like relatively big(or small) features. If a girl’s nose is too wide, then it’s probably bigger and more than likely considered unattractive by most, regardless of culture.
“Some aspects of attractiveness, however, do cross place and time (Cunningham et al., 2005; Langlois et al., 2000). Men in many cultures, from Australia to Zambia, judge women as more attractive if they have a youthful appearance. Women feel attracted to healthy-looking men, but especially to those who seem mature, dominant, and affluent.
People everywhere also seem to prefer physical features–noses, legs physiques–that are neither unusually large nor small.“(Myers 722)
He then goes on to talk about average faces being more attractive, composites, symmetry, and also personal feelings influencing how we view someone’s beauty.
Myers, David G. Psychology 9th Edition In Modules. New York: Worth Publishers, 2010. Print.
LikeLike
I love black women with natural hair, and I’ve always been attracted to women with curly hair, despite their nationality or ethnicity.
And -oh- I love frohawk hair! Yummy! When my blond son went to his first class, me and my ex gave him a great mohawk, and he was wearing this cool motorbike leather jacket… He looked so effin cool!
All that being said, not only I like curly hair, but a really short, cropped hair is extremely sexy. A bare, sexy, naked neck for me to bite…
All you bw with natural hair, come to Europe where you are appreciated as you are!
LikeLike
Ugh… I knew I should of cut my comment in half @Abagond- do long comments automatically get thrusted into e-purgatory(moderation)?
Okay I am going to over-quote bc this contains a lot of information I believe some people might find interesting/beneficial.
Cynic: Attractiveness isn’t related to self-esteem. It actually is possible to prefer Euro or “non-black” looks and be totally proud or yourself & race.
-”First, people’s attractiveness is surprisingly unrelated to their self-esteem and happiness (Diener et al., 1995; Major et al., 1984). One reason may be that, except after comparing themselves with superattractive people, few people (thanks, perhaps, to the mere exposure effect) view themselves as unattractive (Thornton & Moore, 1993). Another reason is that strikingly attractive people are sometimes suspicious that praise for their work may simply be a reaction to their looks. When less attractive people are praised, the are more likely to accept it as sincere (Berscheid, 1981).”(Myers 722)
LikeLike
@Abagond
Do long comments automatically get thrusted into e-purgatory(moderation)? Can you please delete my last comment. The shortened version I mean. Not the longer one btwn Poetess and Hannu L.
LikeLike
I don’t really get it either. I mean, Michael Jackson was drop dead gorgeous in the 80’s before he went the skin bleaching route. Black does equal beautiful, just as much as white equals beautiful. Just be happy with who you are/
LikeLike
I think it’s pretty sad that you see Black mothers forcibly perming their daughters hair. I’m sure that not all young black girls hate their hair. It seems pretty unfair to decide such a huge political(yes, our hair is and probably will always be political) thing for another person’s head only to have them develop a hair complex which might eventually lead them to chopping off all of their hair in young adulthood and possibly go through an awkward hair stage once they transition.
If I have a daughter, I already know I wont let her chemically straighten her hair until she reaches 18. I think more black parents, male & female, should consider that idea…
Anyways do most white people honestly see natural hair as unacceptable? I’ve always wondered whether that would a black person in search of a job…
That’s intimidating????
LikeLike
@poetess
My point excalty. Stopping care so much about hair. So you think every black women that styles it outside of natural hates themselves. I don’t care what whites think. Some black women do hate themsleves, but to say EVERY Last bw is brainwashed is silly.
“no other people on this Earth have been systematically brainwashed into thinking they’re ugly than black people. From skin color to hair texture. Of course everyone wants hair that is easy to care for, but most black people have NEVER had any appreciation whatsoever for the hair they were born with”
That’s your opinon, but how the hell do you know what every black women thinks and feels? That’s why i don’t like some bw that wear natural. They get on this superiority Afronazi trip . News flash, having nappy hair doesn’t make you smarter, more aware and make you magically a better person. The same way perm straight hair doesn’t make you pretty. If you’re ugly with nappy hair, you’ll be ugly with straight.
LikeLike
Once again Abagond is on point.
And I blame black women for this.
Love yourself dammit then teach that to your children.
LikeLike
That’s your opinon, but how the hell do you know what every black women thinks and feels?
Yeah, that’s the thing about conversations like these. I’ve noticed that a lot of people like to throw opinions/theories around as if they are fact and when you question their assumptions you get labelled a self-hater.
In this post alone I saw several theories stated as facts. For example,
But blacks have been brainwashed to think otherwise:
by hundreds of years of slavery,
by television, magazines and advertising –
I think these statements are pretty debatable. However, I think that is what’s so great about the comment section. We get to state our opinions and disagreements in a respectful manner.
LikeLike
“Whitening” of beauty misses the point. The problem is an exclusionary standard of beauty as if you could reduce beauty to A-B-C. The whole premise of this post ignores the continent of Asia. The problem is 1) that there a lot of people who can not see the beauty in a person who is different and 2) who can not see the beauty in themselves.
LikeLike
@King: You could say I just got tired….!
http://sdvoice.info/what-spending-a-half-a-trillion-dollars-on-hair-care-and-weaves-says-about-p1005-101.htm
While the actual figure $500 billion could reasonably be disputed the observation that this appears disproportionate to the total buying power of African Americans is the real concern. In terms of what might be considered “priority” spending that this should rate so highly given the perceived benefits must rate as some form of psychological disorder!!!
It is!!
And this is the point the article stresses. It stems from the unchallenged assumption that the epitome of feminine beauty resides in the physical appearance of the Western white woman. Which in turn is projected and endorsed by the Western media. Unfortunately this unchallenged assumption cuts across race, class and gender lines.
LikeLike
@Victoria:
Personally, I can attest to the disrespect regarding bw’s hair texture. On several occasions, some white people, particularly the white women I’ve come across, say negative comments such as, “I would hate to have black hair” or “Her hair looks like a brillo pad.” And this is when the white women see a black woman with natural hair. They don’t even know her to be saying such comments. That is rude. Plain and simple. I called one white woman (an acquaintance) out and she responded, “Why do you care? It’s not as if you’re a BW? Mind your business.” This irked me so I replied, “Fine, I think your hair is greasy, and stringy-looking. Happy now?” 😀
LikeLike
Kwamla Hesse –
That website you posted is seriously ridiculous. I mean its a shame black women spin all that freaken money on hair making white folks and asians richer and richer and they (black women) dont have a damn thing to show for it. Its sad to see not BILLIONS but TRILLIONS of dollars spent on hair ….and that need to go on more important things like people need food, medicine, clothes, helping others with forclosure,etc, its ridiculous. I am so a shamed. And the others need to be too.
LikeLike
I’ve heard the reference to ‘black’ hair as ‘brillo pads’ or ‘pubic hair’. So many negative things to say about black people/women.
LikeLike
Beautiful beloved sister, I like that! Thanks again for another thought provoking post. I go back and forth with going natural. I’ve gone as long as 13wks without a relaxer, but then I get lazy and make a hair appt for the creamy crack. I know, I know…I should do better but it’s just easier to do. And I love how natural hair looks on other folks. One day I’ll get there 😉
LikeLike
@pcg
I don’t either. I guess abagond believes she represents a whitened form of black beauty. That makes no sense to me bc, minus the light skin and hair (which is not even naturally hers), Beyonce has all of the stereotypical characteristics of a black woman. Plus, her supposedly Euro-features(bought or born) are not what make Beyonce attractive. We already know its not her hair(the Scandinavian weave actually makes her look pretty silly) bc she was considered attractive in that Austin Powers movie where she rocked the Afro wig.
http://www.google.com/m/search?client=ms-android-hms-tmobile-us&q=beyonce+austin+powers&channel=portal&site=images&ei=RV_4TYi-Io3vlQe4usugAw&ved=0CBAQ7AkwAA
Idk, maybe her light skin is the ONLY thing that makes her beautiful…. yea… not sure if I buy that. I think most ppl, or at least black ppl, think she has a pretty face and nice body.
A picture of an, at best, average looking Afro-descent woman with Euro-features that most ppl find attractive(based off of those features alone), would have been a better choice considering the topic of this post. Leona Lewis comes to mind…
But, yeah. I hate it when someone takes a light skin/mixed chick that is legitimately pretty and say ppl only like her bc of her Euro genes. That only works when the girl is undeniably ugly/average.
LikeLike
Or she could just be an example of a beautiful black woman. Which I thought was the case b4 I read the first line of the post…
LikeLike
Abagond, please do a post on Michael Jackson’s vitiligo! I’m so tired of hearing people bringing him up triumphantly as an example of self-hatred. His fre*king autopsy report revealed that he had vitiligo, his sister Janet Jackson attested to the fact, his make-up artist did so as well. Sure he did some freaky things with his nose, chin and hair, but his skin colour change was purely due to vitiligo. He has said it before that he feels very hurt when people accuse him of not being proud of his blackness. I’m really annoyed that so many people are unaware of this disease.
(Also, did anyone stop to consider that maybe MJ altered his facial features because a more ‘chiselled’ look might suit his new skin colour a little more? Milky white skin with strong Negroid features is an extremely uncommon look, and does make many people confused and uncomfortable.)
LikeLike
This post is so spot on and it’s not only the US, in Jamaica, the majority of winners of Miss Jamaica are brown or mixed girls and I believe they are chosen because the judges feel this is the only way that Jamaica will continue to win in the Miss World contest.
http://miss-india-world-universe.blogspot.com/2010/09/1976-miss-world-cindy-breakspeare.html
http://miss-india-world-universe.blogspot.com/search/label/1963%20Miss%20World%20Carole%20Joan%20Crawford
http://miss-india-world-universe.blogspot.com/search/label/1993%20Miss%20World%20Lisa%20Hanna
The contests are getting better, 2010 winner MissJamaica World was more representative of the island …white people may have started the thought pattern but the afro-descended world in the Islands still buy into it (and we don’t have white-dominated media)
The men in Jamaica will tell you that they love their “big batty” girls but they also love long hair on their women–so a skinny mixed Chinese or Indian girl will push everyone to the back of the line.
In the Islands, wearing hair in it’s natural state (no chemicals) is normal but women still grade each other using texture; girls with “bad” hair are pushed to get it done–chemicals, braids, low cut afro, even dreads are better than having “coarse” hair flowing free.
I don’t believe that women in the US are anymore enlightened (but they talk a good game); I wear my hair natural and if I got a dime for everytime I heard “you’re dark but you have nice hair” , I would be rich by now…
and the people who say it actually think they are complimenting me…I don’t call it self-hate and I don’t know if it’s “brainwashing” because I think this mentally is so ingrained in afro-descended cultures, whether it’s in North/South/Central America or the Caribbean, it’s part of our psyche…
“state of denial” might be a better term…
LikeLike
@ Snailgrilled
It has also been said that vitiligo affects ‘areas’ of the body at a time manifesting itself in the form of patches where the skin looses pigmentation resulting in white patches – with Michael (unless I am missing something) his whole body seemed to have been affected all at once. Patchy/Tonal differences over his skin would have been expected but the fact that his skin seemed consistently ‘even’ in tone after it was revealed he suffered from vitiligo is probably what created scepticism IMO.
Regarding his features – The man was continually mocked by his father about his looks, particularly his nose. I think it would have been understood/respected more if Michael initially come out and said that he wanted to change how he looked beyond all recognition to escape these horrible memories rather than anything else.
LikeLike
In the Islands, wearing hair in it’s natural state (no chemicals) is normal but women still grade each other using texture; girls with “bad” hair are pushed to get it done–chemicals, braids, low cut afro, even dreads are better than having “coarse” hair flowing free.”
Yes, I have soft hair, but when there’s a big cloud of it around my head, I receive that message from women to “do something” about my hair or men will say something like I must be on my way to get my hair done as if that’s the only reason why it looks like that. It’s almost like they don’t want non-blacks to remember that blacks have hair that is mostly different. I think they feel that if we keep our hair short or braided, then non-blacks won’t notice it much or as much.
The men in Jamaica will tell you that they love their “big batty” girls but they also love long hair on their women–so a skinny mixed Chinese or Indian girl will push everyone to the back of the line.
I’ve worn my hair short, long, and in between. There is nothing inherently better about long hair. Black women don’t care if my hair is long, but the men do. When my hair hangs down, black men compliment my hair.
LikeLike
Well, Black men tend to keep their hair natural… well at least in most RECENT history.
LikeLike
Well, Black men tend to keep their hair natural… well at least in most RECENT history.
http://bestofmichaeljackson.jclondon.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/11/Al-Sharpton-walking-with-James-Brown1.jpg
James Brown and Al Sharpton have their hair straightened or permed in this picture.
Their hair is not in its natural state. Doesn’t Al Sharpton still straighten his hair?
LikeLike
Abagond:
Black people should never allow conventional wisdom to cloud their judgement, as it relates to race. On the surface, we assume that attacking blackness is only about blackwomen, but I don’t accept that premise. Yes, the beauty of sistas has been marginalized in the US and in other countries as well, but the issue runs much deeper than that. It’s too simplistic of us to think that it’s just about beauty and sex appeal alone. Attacking blackwomen kills two birds with one stone. Blackmen are held up as sex icons in white society, but blackwomen are viewed as inferior, Why? Black society and culture is matriarchal in it’s design and construction. If you want to destroy black people, you target the women. Self-loving, blackwomen-loving blackmen are a real threat to the status-quo that exist on the planet at this time. Abagond, look at all of the exploitation that takes place as a result of blackmen not loving themselves and their black sisters? Blackwomen are gonna be alright in my opinion, the mindset of brothas is what should concern us the most at this time. African beauty is infinite, but if blackmen are blind and can’t see it, No Cigar! A blackwoman can’t make a blackman love them if he doesn’t love himself, no matter how fine she is. I want blackwomen to know that they’re is nothing wrong with them. This fight is between us and whitemen, who are the source of the problem.
Tyrone
LikeLike
@ Demerera:
It has also been said that vitiligo affects ‘areas’ of the body at a time manifesting itself in the form of patches where the skin looses pigmentation resulting in white patches – with Michael (unless I am missing something) his whole body seemed to have been affected all at once. Patchy/Tonal differences over his skin would have been expected but the fact that his skin seemed consistently ‘even’ in tone after it was revealed he suffered from vitiligo is probably what created scepticism IMO.
I understand what you are saying; the ‘evenness’ of his complexion made me skeptical of his vitiligo story initially. You are totally right in saying that vitiligo affects the skin in patches and not all over all at once. In Michael’s case, his condition actually did progress in this ‘patchy’ manner. The reason why his skin always looked even was because of makeup. In the early stages, his skin was mostly dark with a few white patches; he would use dark makeup to cover up the white patches. At later stages, when his skin was mostly white with a few dark patches, he used white makeup to cover up the dark patches.
If you dig around on YouTube, you can actually find an interview with Michael’s long-term makeup artist who explains that this was the strategy they used over the years to create an illusion of even skin tone. Search Google Images for “michael jackson vitiligo”, and you can actually find quite a few photos where the makeup wasn’t thick enough and the “patchyness” can be seen.
The sad thing about vitiligo is that although it hardly affects the person’s physical health, it can affect a patient’s psychological well-being. Having patches on your face can really affect your self-esteem. Some sufferers become less sociable than before, or even reclusive. Bearing this in mind, it’s totally understandable why Michael would go to such extreme lengths to hide the patches.
That said, the fact still remains that skin bleaching creams were found in MIchael’s house after his death. He did not buy them to turn himself from a black man to a white (wo)man, though; it’s actually quite common for vitiligo patients to be prescribed such creams which can speed up the progression and even out the complexion as soon as possible.
LikeLike
Do his kids have vitiligo too?
http://lisawallerrogers.files.wordpress.com/2009/07/michael-jacksons-children-tmz.jpg?w=468&h=411
LikeLike
@snailgrilled
Much of what you say makes sense in terms of the fact that make up was used to create the illusion of even skin tone and also how something like this could have psychological effects on a person. I also get that bleaching creams may assist with this purpose but my guess is that they would still have to be applied strategically or else, with continued use, this would start to create ‘splotches’ on the skin where it has been neglected to be rubbed in properly and give an uneven skin tone where heavy make up would have to be used even more so.
Unfortunately I have been unable to find anything that would satisfy even the most minor sceptic on the web, except things where people steadfastly believe that Michael has vitiligo and have added links which are no longer available to view!!! If you come across anything I would be grateful.
I want to tread with caution here as in retrospect, I do recall there was an ‘absence’ of Michael in my life when I was growing up and I was shocked when I saw him again when he brought ‘BAD’ the album out because there was a marked difference with how he looked there and the Thriller album which was when I had last seen him. I thought that I was THE number one Michael Jackson fan and that I knew everything there was to know about him. The songs of Michael/Jacksons are like the soundtrack to my life post the Dangerous album when I finally acknowledged that I wasnt so keen on his newer stuff but the legacy of his previous work was always what appealed to me and was relevant no matter how old it was. The first person my kids really knew about in terms of music was MJ so it is very telling how much his music was a feature of my life, so much so that the next generation adopted my knowledge and love of his songs.
LikeLike
I think that your post is largely true but having a parent with natural hair doesn’t guarantee that you will follow suit. Case in point, my Mom’s friend (who I still call Aunt b/c I hung out with her kids and at her house so much from when I was a tadpole) has always worn natural hair during my and her kids life-time. Of her 4 girls only one is natural and that has only been going on for a few years. So maybe if ALL the Mom’s you grew up around had natural hair you might do that to but just having a Mom with natural hair isn’t enough. Plus she did straighten their hair, etc when they were kids so maybe that is a factor too.
LikeLike
Yeah I have to agree that the pictures of Michael’s patches aren’t all that convincing, thanks to all the makeup and stage lighting. It would have been great if Michael had just shown us some of his bare naked skin without makeup or anything, especially when he talked about his condition on the Oprah show, but alas… Personally I find the confirmation of vitiligo in his autopsy report and in the court transcripts (of the Jordan Chandler case) convincing enough, but there are definitely some unanswered questions about the progression of his condition.
LikeLike
It’s her nose job that makes her look more European these days
LikeLike
@all black women: wear your hair anyway you want and do not care about what the F anybody says. It is your head and your hair. You do what ever you want with it. Has anybody seen really black woman with a huge afro which is bright blue? Next time some A hole tells you that afro is no good, do just that. Lets see what the A hole is going to say to that.
LikeLike
Ha! Wise words from the wise Fin!
LikeLike
Abagond:
Black people shouldn’t view this issue as trivial, because it’s not. Black people attacking the beauty of other black people has deadly consequences. The genocide in Rwanda came about as a result of power, money, and beauty of one tribe over another. As hard as it is to wrap our brains around the concept, hundreds of thousands of black people died over bulls**t. This issue, more so than any other issue angers me the most, because there is no excuse for it, No Excuse! As time goes on, I’m getting angrier and angrier with some of our people, especially blackmen. Brothas, stop the madness. We complain about all of the innocent football and basketball players who are gunned down in the hood, because they were popular with the ladies. The Al B. Sure types who get all of the attention because of their wavy hair, light complexion, etc. The same rule applies to sistas as well. I can’t watch the news without hearing about an innocent black teen or college student losing their life over jealousy and envy, It’s Nauseating! Abagond, I’ve said all that I’m gonna say on the subject……BLACK PEOPLE, GET IT TOGETHER?
Tyrone
I
LikeLike
“Well, Black men tend to keep their hair natural… well at least in most RECENT history.”
That’s true. But shaving it all off, wearing it in a contrived/trained short ‘wave’ style or having it cut so short as to be almost nonexistent — all popular hair care methods among young black men — don’t exactly reek of pride (or even mere acceptance) of afro-textured hair, anymore than the use of chemical relaxers do. And, if most Black women begin to resort to these same hair care methods (bald/near bald or super-short & tiny fake ‘waves’), they’d get far more bitching, complaining and negative comparison to others than they’re getting now.
LikeLike
Bulanikgirl,
“I also want to see a death to the mindset and the practice that denigrates Black women and insult Black people’s beauty, but is it necessary to simply dismiss the beauty of mixed Jamaican women as somehow inauthentic, or ‘ill-gotten’ or wishy-washy in that process?”
Linda says,
I think the only thing inauthentic in our Jamaican culture is the “Rent a Dreads” 🙂
You took my phrase about skinny girls too literal…I was alluding to the fact that I find Jamaican men to be hypocrites…
I mentioned brown women, and mixed Chinese/Indian Jamaican women to illustrate that in Jamaica, these women are held up by our media, men, and our society as the standard of beauty (even the fluffy ones) mainly because of their obvious racial mixtures
I don’t believe I dismissed the beauty of mixed Jamaican women in my statements, after all, we Jamaican women are beautiful because of our subtle or not so subtle racial mixtures…ie Naomi Campbell, Cindy Breakspeare
but “Brown” in Jamaica also represents a seperate class and standard and when black men get the chance, a “brown” girl is a symbol of advancement.
I am not saying this to put anyone down; it is what it is,…the physical trait ranking order is a reality that I grew up with and colourism is a sickness with no cure in Jamaican culture.
as you mentioned, its the hypocrisy in our society that drives me crazy; everyone is proud to be “black” but no matter how watered down, it’s the European or Asian features (like my hair) that are complimented and considered attractive by our society.
LikeLike
This topic is incredibly trivial, childish, and superficial. If someone finds you attractive, great. If someone doesnt find you attractive, oh well. If another person has a preference, then they are entitled to their preferences. Looks do not define who you are. This really is a genuine “get over it” topic. Nobody in America is single bc they have a bell pepper nose or dark skin, so why do so many ppl in the BC act as if this topic is important? “My race looks better than yours!”, “no mine does!” smh… so immature. How beautiful blk ppl are perceived as has nothing to do with disparities in health, housing, education, prison rates, wealth, or employment. The entire world could think we are the most attractive people ob the Earth and our community would still have all of those problems.
LikeLike
@cynic
I would be inclined to agree with you but as men we have to account for the fact that “beauty” plays a different and less personal role in our lives. I think that racist beauty standards create a real challenge for WOC to remain confident and feel beautiful. Clearly they don’t think it’s trivial, so why not be supportive since it’s something neither of us can experience first hand.
LikeLike
Beauty is more important to women than to men but there’s not a whole lot that can be done about beauty standards. White oriented media is never going to feature black beauty in a way that will satsify most people-to the extent that it does it will feature black beauty that is close, not oppositional, to white beauty in one form or another.
Put another way, all else equal, most white people prefer white looks/beauty/standards while most black people prefer black looks/beauty/standards. As whites are the majority in North America and Europe and have a disproportionate share of the world’s wealth because of the past 5-600 yrs of history the market is going to cater to their desires.
Black people have the choice (and duty?) to build, cater to and enjoy their own media that features them in a manner which they find attractive OR to continue to consume media which does not feature them except as afterthoughts or exotics. That’s it. Most black people manage to marry, date, live with, or reproduce with other black people, who evidently find them attractive, so at least some (not all) of the angst over this is overstated.
LikeLike
“Beauty is more important to women than to men but there’s not a whole lot that can be done about beauty standards. ”
You’re probably right, but something we can do is not trivialize it by saying, “that’s stupid’ “who cares” and “get over it”
(not that you were saying that)
LikeLike
@jasOnburns–
You’re probably right, but something we can do is not trivialize it by saying, “that’s stupid’ “who cares” and “get over it”
I really appreciate this. Thank you for being a man who speaks out in support of black women on this issue when it doesn’t help your group to do so.
This is not a trivial issue to black women because much of a woman’s value and worth is based on her beauty as perceived by men. Many American black men and those Jamaican men mentioned and other black men like them are the biggest upholders of and reinforcers of those white beauty standards and this is why they often tell black women to just “get over it.” Yet, these black men blame white men for this, as if white men are gods who made them uphold white beauty standards.
If you walked into any social arena where black women representing all of these phenotypes were present, you would see how many of these same black men would head for the black women who came the closest to white women almost all the time. There’s nothing inherently beautiful about any woman’s looks, so these black men are are simply “brainwashed.” Disgusting! I’m a pale skinned black woman and this is why I’m suspicious of many black man who are interested in me. I ask myself whether they would be interested if I were a dark woman, but some of them even mention my skin. So I know exactly why they like me. At least, with white men, I know they’re not after me because of my skin.
LikeLike
Emm I agree with you loving your black hair, but how do we manage it have you tried combing through an afro it can be really challenging i tell you and truly how long can you spend doing that everyday, the reason why black women relax their hair is because it is easier to maintain simple as
LikeLike
ohh and our display pic not very flattering Abagond haha
LikeLike
@ The Cynic
Co-signed all the way. I’m so sick of tired black folks talking and caring about it. I don’t know. I don’t care about my or anyother bw’s hair.I don’t care about Halley Berrie cutting her cut and thinks it’s crazy that some bw were excited about it. Because YOU can’t take care of your hair properly and can’t grow it pass your earlobe, then no one else should have long hair either ? Like I said, maybe part of the problem is the some black folks do care about their way too much. Almost like obsession. I mean, they don’t let white folks stop them from enjoying soul food,music, chicken, stepping and anyother “black” culture, so WHY THE HELL WOULD CARE ABOUT WHAT THEY ABOUT YOUR HAIR!
LikeLike
Edit : said, maybe part of the problem is the some black folks do care about their hair way too much.
LikeLike
@Jas0nburns
This topic trivializes itself. No matter how much women find importance in beauty, at the end of the day, it still will have no affect on racial disparities in health, housing, education, incarceration, wealth, or employment. If we want to talk important women’s issues, then why not discuss female genital mutilation, sex trafficking, women’s rights in the middle east? My gender, or the role those issues play in my life, don’t keep me from sympathizing with important topics…
Also, attractive WOC don’t need “beauty standards” to validate their beauty bc men validate their beauty all the time. The main women complaining are 1)genuinely unattractive and riding on the coat tails of alleged oppression, 2)lack personality, 3)thoroughly enjoy invitations to pity parties, and 4)need a cause to get behind no matter how unimportant.
Oh, and I’ve been enough white women to know that they dont have it made in the confidence department. Their are more than enough white girls that feel they dont fit the standard of beauty too.
LikeLike
@Sasha. There are black women who are taking care of and managing their hair. Check out the following links:
http://bglhonline.com/
And its not just the “good hair” ones who can only manage it.
co-sign with Jason. Easy to say “get over it”.
LikeLike
Long time lurker first time commentor.
This really hurts and I’m not talking about the article its the comments. Telling black people to just get over it, specifically black women to just get over their hair when EVERY women of EVERY race cares a lot about their hair is extremely cruel. You act like women obsessing over their hair is just a BLACK THING when its not. White women dye their hair and spend plenty of money on their hair as well to get it to look like Jessica Simpson or Kim Kardashian. The difference between her and a black women trying to stay in style is that we have extra step and that’s to get longer and straighter hair so we can accomplish the same style.
Black women do the same things that other races of women do which is follow the pop culture and media. The only difference is our hair and our features never fit into the pop culture or the media. Unless of course your into the hip hop scene but not ALL black people think, act or feel a like. Some black people can just GET OVER IT, other black people cant just get over it. And to say that they all can is to say that we are all a monolithic group that all have the same mind and thought process and the same power over how we perceive and feel about things. And just to state something is not a problem because it doesn’t affect you is DISGUSTING attitude to have towards fellow human being.
Women in general obsess way more then a lot of men over their appearances. A lot of women that do obsess over their appearance try to make themselves look like what the media or culture of where they live say they should look like. You have skin bleaching in India to certain tribes in Africa gaging their lips to look attractive in their culture. You have mothers force feeding their little girls to make them fat so they can get married in other tribes around the world. And I’m sorry to inform you guys that THINK you are the sole person that dictates what you are attracted to, but your not. SOME people are but for a lot of people your not. The media and the culture dictate this for quite a few people around the world. So this is a BIG DEAL to many people and it is not trivial.
LikeLike
Cynic and Usagi
I think that perhaps you’re looking at this without seeing the interconnected factors. The denigration of Black beauty is not a stand alone issue, but rather, it is one prong of a multi-pronged stratagem. It goes hand in had with the concerted attacks on Black intelligence, Black Psychological inferiority, and Black anti-social behavior.
None of these are throw away issues, as they work together in defining the worldwide concept of overall Black inferiority.
LikeLike
@Maemay
“So this is a BIG DEAL to many people and it is not trivial.”
It’s a big deal to weak people and weak people deserve to get their feelings hurt. I could really give a damn if a white person thinks I’m ugly bc I am black. White people are not GODS. Their opinions don’t matter. Self-inflicted mental oppression is a choice, so I really can’t feel sorry for those that choose the inferior status. Pity parties are never conducive.
LikeLike
About the hair issue… ALL WOMEN of ALL RACES, spend an extensive time taking care of their hair. Every Finnish woman I’ve ever encounterd, worry about their hair. The are willing to spend exessive amounts of money to have their hair maintined. This, of course, is an absolute mystery to most men.
Even though bw have a different hair texture, and might be even more conscious about it, western women spend most of their money on hair care. Hair first, make up second. I’ve listened finnish women to ad nauseum about their complaints about how their hair never looks good ENOUGH. Nothing ever is good enough.
That being said, I really, really love the natural hair of bw. Your curly hair is your unique charasteristic, and that’s why I love it. We should all celebrate the beauty of all women across the globe. You are all beautiful, and there are always men, even far away from your country, who appreciate your beauty.
Just be proud who you are.
LikeLike
@Maemay
Care about your hair is one thing, but some bw go pass that. When you letting your hair diciate your whole personality and using it as the only factor if a person attractive or not. Again, I don’t understand white judgement stops these same color/hair struck black folks from speaking ebonics,enjoying Tyler Perry or eating fried chicken in public, but hair/skin does ?
LikeLike
Totally agree @ Cynic how do you add a smiley face i cant seem to do that haha
LikeLike
@ The Cynic
Thinking that weak people deserve to get their feelings hurt is pretty much the essence of cruelty. You never know what people have been through, and what may seem like vanity is insecurity, or even lingering effects of past abuse. Contempt and judgement never helped anyone heal, but we can try and understand people even if they seem pathetic to us.
I don’t have issues about blackness, and I’m thankful to my mom for that, but the things I’ve heard other black people say make me question how I’d feel about myself if I’d have been given different messages as a child, when those self-hating complexes are formed. This is a VERY important issue to the ENTIRE black community, whether we care about what white people think or not.
LikeLike
BTW, do you know how I would feel if I took American beauty standards seriously ? I would very depressed. My hair is consider ugly by both black and white standards. I find both afronazis and pcreamy crack addicts annoying. I hate when some naturals think that they’re so smart and spiritual. These people always have to force that Pan African bs on me. This one chick I used to work with, wanted me to cut my hair and go “natural. The retarded part was my hair wasn’t permed at the time, but because my hair isn’t pam grier jet black super afro and super balded headed, I must be dying and straight.Also, she wouldn’t like to tan because she doesn’t want to get darker skin. I love to tan, but I sunburn easily. She replied, that I shouldn’t be tanning because ONLY whites do it. It’s sad that some blacks put their skin color and race into their whole personality. News Flash, Not all natural hair beautiful.
LikeLike
“weak people deserve to get their feelings hurt.”
smh
LikeLike
Thanks for the calm, rational balanced comments Hannu and Maemay. All women worldwide obsess about their looks/hair etc. Nothing new there.
Cynic and Usagi may not realise it but they come across as deeply bitter, latently angry, unhappy people. The sort who will proclaim loudly from the rooftops how unaffected they are by this or that issue; how comfortable they are in their own skins etc. If only you knew you come across as anything but. Just wow.
LikeLike
http://voiceofdetroit.net/?p=3300
LikeLike
@ Cynic
Um, not caring about other peoples feelings and or well being makes you a bad person. I think that the definition of a bad person someone who doesn’t care about other people and/or thinks they deserve to get hurt. Some people cant help the fact they are sensitive. Its like saying you deserve to get bullied because you act different. You deserve to get your butt grabbed because its sooo big. You deserve to get your feeling hurt because your too sensitive.
Like i said before WE ARE NOT A MONOLITHIC GROUP so not everybody can get over stuff you think is easy to get over. And it definitely doesn’t help many of these people to get over it when you tell them to GET OVER IT.
“Self-inflicted mental oppression is a choice, so I really can’t feel sorry for those that choose the inferior status. Pity parties are never conducive.”
Seriously, seriously. YOU thinks its a choice because YOU don’t have to deal with it. What you just typed can be linked to something totally off topic so I’m not going to say it. But it is just as terrible when it said about something else. I’m disgusted so I’m going to move on..
@ Usagi
“Again, I don’t understand white judgement stops these same color/hair struck black folks from speaking ebonics,enjoying Tyler Perry or eating fried chicken in public, but hair/skin does ?”
That’s a good point but for some that DOES stop them from doing those things. People are not monolithic. Some people in general care about how they look or how they are perceived by others by how they look, over their actions. Which is messed up but there are plenty of everyday examples of people being treated better or getting more opportunities just because of their looks alone. Getting free drinks, getting paid more at work, people actually listening to things you have to say, getting free stuff at the mall just because of your chest size. I have friend that this happened to. A lot of people notice this so maybe these people know if they look more european it will get them further faster then if they act more earopean.
Obama got into office not because he was well educated and spoke oh so well, which can be argued about some of the other 43 presidents, but because he was nice lighter shade of brown then what some white people perceive black people are.
I’m not going to lie I agree with you guys. You shouldn’t care about what anybody else thinks about your looks because you know its YOUR LIFE and YOUR BODY. But I’m not heartless either and I understand that people thought process and abilities both mental and physical differ from mine.So I’m not going to just say GET OVER IT cause I’m not stupid this doesn’t work with everyone and this can give great pain to people.
LikeLike
@ Di
Wow. And you come off as a judgemental person. Why ? Because I’m a bw and I’m not caring about skin/hair. My life is cool It’s not perfect. I have awesome friends, a loving and supporting boyfriend and kickass family. I have problems and issuses like EVERYBODY IN THE WORLD> But I’m not going sit around crying about the unfairness of world. Because if a person is black and happy without really major issuses with the skin, then they just have to be fooling themsleves because ALL THE BLACKS ARE Miserable. Sorry, The S*** is tired. You and Maemay are going on the movie called ” Being Black is worst than having cancer, aids, and no legs and no one loves us ” They be crying about have no one loves and how they on the brink of suicude because some white b**** called nappyhead 18 years ago.
LikeLike
@Di
“deeply bitter, latently angry, unhappy people.”
I assure you I’m not. Outside of the internet I have loving friends and family. I enjoy life. One of the reasons why my life is so great is because I don’t spend all day with a “woe, is me”! attitude about white racism. I embrace life and value my mind, the essence of myself, more than anything else in the world.
Who has control of your mind? It seems as if many of the commenters on here are allowing the racist elements of white society to mentally conquer them. I think your comment is called projection…
LikeLike
I’m not heartless. I hate with a burning passion when someone just says someone ugly because their hair’s not straight. White hair is netter than black. It can grow as long, but has a texture and black hair is usually dry. White folks is far from awesome. Having too thin hair sucks and I think it would be a pain in the ass to have to wash your hair every. I highly prefer ver thick curly/wavy bruenette hair over straight thin blonde.
“Like i said before WE ARE NOT A MONOLITHIC GROUP so not everybody can get over stuff you think is easy to get over. And it definitely doesn’t help many of these people to get over it when you tell them to GET OVER IT”
I know, but racist whites and blacks with low-selfsteem try to make it that way. Alot of Afronazis would love for Blacks to be a monolithic. Racist whites don’t want use to have anything or for us to have a personailty.
LikeLike
Edit: You are going on the movie called ” Being Black is worst than having cancer, aids, and no legs and no one loves us ” They be crying about have no one loves her and how set on the brink of suicude because some white b**** called nappyhead 18 years ago.
My bad. I was directing it to Di.
LikeLike
@Jas0nburns “Smh”
It’s the cold hard truth man. If the strong survive, then what happens to the weak? The world is not a utopia and it never will be. Blacks, Whites, Indians, Chinese, etc. all have plenty of struggles to go through. Pity parties, obsessing over trivial issues, and faking outrage every damn time some black folks want to get sensitive over a non-blacks racism aren’t going to solve any problems. If you let society mentally brain f*ck your skull your not going to survive.
Oh, and my response to you finally emerged from moderation!
@Faye
“Thinking that weak people deserve to get their feelings hurt is pretty much the essence of cruelty.
>:)
LikeLike
Cynic,
“It seems as if many of the commenters on here are allowing the racist elements of white society to mentally conquer them.”
This article is not about what white people think or about white society, it’s about afro-descended societies and how they continue to uphold colourism and historical standards of beauty…
I don’t think the previous poster was asking you or Usagi to care, but to acknowledge that in most eurocentric and afrocentric societies, African features are diminished and considered unattractive, and it’s black people themselves who uphold these eurocentric standards of beauty (and then turn around and complain about it)
Coming from a country that is proud of our mixed race heritage and also proud of our African ancestors; where most women wear their hair natural (no chemicals), it’s ironic that the features that our culture, media, and both men and women find attractive, are the watered down features that are closests to our European or Asian ancestors…
this subliminal message is confusing and most people are not “non-conformists” so unfortunately, they have a hard time just “getting over it”…
I wish more young people were like you , You sound like you have a strong “sense of self” and this is wonderful; unfortunately, many people have not and are affected by how they are perceived by their peers and own group of people….you call this weak but it takes time and certain experiences for people to “self actualize”
is this topic important… hell yes, every black hair salon in the US would lose mega money if black women woke up one day and actually learned to love their natural textured hair 😉
LikeLike
Do physically weak people also deserve to be hurt physically, or perhaps killed by stronger people?
LikeLike
@cynic
Well, here’s my rule of thumb. If a whole bunch of people are saying “x is a problem” and I’m not really equipt to make that call because I lack the day in day out perspective, (not being a POC, woman, homosexual, scuba diver, obstatrician, bank robber, etc…) than I just take their word for it on good faith and move on. The fact that you hear almost exactly the same issue being brought up and expressed in the same way bu BW from all walks off life leads me to believe this is a genuine problem. You, being a male( and a young one at that ) aren’t going to say anything that’s going to override that, despite the “fact” that your black. I also would note that it’s very few black women who I see engaging in what you call pity parties. There is some of that, but that’s not really the issue here.
LikeLike
Sorry for Engrish typos.
LikeLike
@Linda
“This article is not about what white people think or about white society, it’s about afro-descended societies and how they continue to uphold colourism and historical standards of beauty…”
-Yeah, I am aware of that and I have addressed the main topic in other comments. That statement was my general feeling about the collection of post Abagond has written about black beauty, the commenters, a plethora of other black forums, and everyday discussions in life concerning this topic. They’re all interconnected, so making a differences doesn’t mean much…
“but to acknowledge that in most eurocentric and afrocentric societies”
-I don’t care about what they culturally find attractive in White, Asian, or any other society. As for the Afrocentric ones… I wouldn’t take a preconceived notion and top-down process that to “most afrocentric societies.” You can see a report about skin bleaching in Lagos or straightened hair in Nairobi, but let’s not pretend like we know what they find attractive across every black populated society. Some afrocentric societies don’t even have enough interaction with Europeans to take on their cultural values, concepts, etc. Maybe I am nit-picking, but I think the word significant would have been more fitting.
“this subliminal message is confusing and most people are not “non-conformists” so unfortunately, they have a hard time just “getting over it”…”
-Yeah, but many people who conform to Euro-centric beauty standards also don’t care or worry much over them. Which makes sense if you consider everything Shady_Grady pointed out in his comment.
” are the watered down features that are closests to our European or Asian ancestors…”
-Why Asians? I know the Chinese are successful in Jamaica(not sure about the Indians), but they never conquered the place.
“I wish more young people were like you , You sound like you have a strong “sense of self” and this is wonderful; unfortunately, many people have not and are affected by how they are perceived by their peers and own group of people…”
-Well thank you, and yeah, that is pretty unfortunate. That mentality is one of the reasons I believe blacks are destined to failure in the United States. Like I said before, pity parties aren’t getting black folks anywhere. All they do is spread negativity. I know people don’t mean harm by them, but it is my belief that they help create inferiority complexes by making the anti-black beliefs of society more important than how we view/feel about ourselves.
“every black hair salon in the US would lose mega money if black women woke up one day and actually learned to love their natural textured hair”
-Yes, this is true.
@King
“Do physically weak people also deserve to be hurt physically, or perhaps killed by stronger people?”
No. In a modern technologically advanced society like the US, physical strength is not very important(most ppl in the US live in peaceful settings & weapons can be bought in violent ones, so their isn’t much reason for most to acquire physical strength). However, mental strength is and probably always will be.
LikeLike
@jas0nburns
“I also would note that it’s very few black women who I see engaging in what you call pity parties.”
-Omg, too many black people, male & female, have these parties all the time! This site is filled with them! I’m sure you’ve been to one on here, but don’t remember. You must of had too much drink…
“If a whole bunch of people are saying ‘x is a problem'”
-That’s the thing. How do you define a problem? If we’re talking about US black folks and it has nothing to do with, family structures, “racial disparities in health, housing, education, incarceration, wealth, or employment” then it probably isn’t of much importance.
LikeLike
LikeLike
oops
LikeLike
LikeLike
There are three things that I hear a lot (and agree with) that I haven’t read here yet.
1. Natural vs relaxed hair is not always the issue when it comes to how some black men view beauty. I think what often happens is that some black women “go natural” at the expense of their hair being well kept. In other words, I’ve seen some black woman “go natural” but not do much else to make their hair attractive. Shape it, twist it, style it, do something!! There is almost nothing better than to see a black women with natural AND well kept/styled hair. Absolutely beautiful.
2. The other thing I hear a lot is that there aren’t many hair care products designed for Black hair texture other than to change it. I find this very strange seeing that black people spend so much money on hair care products. I hear that the ‘mix chicks’ product is well liked but extremely expensive: http://www.mixedchicks.net/. I would think the market for these types of non relaxer products would be huge.
3. White women seem to have their own issues with hair. The bleach industry can be sustained by white women alone, yet no one accuses them of self hatred. There is even a name for them: “bottle blondes”, yet they are rarely criticized, even when their outgrown dark hair roots are clearly exposed for the world to see because they are overdue for a touch up. Yet black women are raked through the coles for making the adjustments that they want. Sometimes I wonder if we are too hard on ourselves about the wrong things.
The only other thing I would say is that issue of relaxed vs natural hair seems to be a very different issue from short vs long hair. That probably deserves a post of its own.
LikeLike
““bottle blondes”, yet they are rarely criticized, even when their outgrown dark hair roots are clearly exposed for the world to see because they are overdue for a touch up.”
Eh?
Everyone has different experiences of course but there is quite a lot of criticism of obvious “bottle-blonds”. Such women are often considered to be stereotypically low-class, unintelligent, tacky, trashy, etc. It’s not “racialized” but it can get nasty.
My take on these issues is that to the extent possible black people (especially black women) need to stop comparing themselves to white beauty standards and/or expecting that white beauty standards (which are nothing more than the sum of millions of individual preferences) are going to change just b/c some find them inconvenient. Other people’s preferences aren’t under our control.
Every day, black people who wish to do so seem to have no issues meeting/dating/reproducing/marrying etc with blacks or whites or whoever. To the extent that there is a “problem” in that area I don’t think white beauty standards have much to do with it.
Consume media that reflects you and avoid or be very careful about consuming media that doesn’t. I don’t say this is easy or “fair” but I really think that is the only solution. In a country that is still 70%+ white, why would we think that mass media wouldn’t reflect those preferences and standards?
LikeLike
All women have an issue with how they are perceived in the world, not only black women. Black women relax and color their hair, but white women perm, bleach, color, straighten, they also put hair pieces, they tan themselves because pasty white skin is apparently not very attractive either. All women need to embrace the fact that they are beautiful.
Now on another note. I grew up in a west-indian family, they push that the lighter skinned children are better looking. It kills me. My stepfather’s family clearly favor my two girls over my son, why? Because my girls have light skin and my youngest has “good hair”. I remember my aunts being disappointed that my son came out with my complexion even though he is a quarter puerto rican and a quarter italian and I’ve even had an african hair dresser tell me that my sons hair (its really curly) should be on my daughter’s head because her hair is extremely nappy. It made me feel sad for the world. I love my daughter’s hair, it stays when I comb it. It does not have fly aways, even when its sorta tangled, it still looks good in its puffs. All 3 of my kids are beautiful and its not because they are this or that its because all people are beautiful. I wish people would stop with this black isn’t beautiful business and I also wish that the more extreme people who go on talking about how races other than black are too bland. Passing off the hatred they give us will not make anything better. Going on and being true to yourself is more productive than blaming white people for the perception of black not being beautiful, because we have not done ourselves any better.
LikeLike
this thing is problem to all people of color
People of color hate to be what they are
LikeLike
@ Asian,
If some people of color hate what they are it is only because of the way they are treated because they are people of color.
LikeLike
I lurk here all the time (and like your writing style abagond!), but I’ve never made a comment… but I am kind of amused by people who “don’t care” about a topic, yet think everyone else wants to hear them anyway…
You’d think commenters with such a “strong sense of self” as the Cynic or Usagi would be able to “get over” others having a conversation they don’t like! Don’t people usually f*** off when they’re so uninterested in a given topic? You could, afterall, engage in a conversation about racial disparities in housing, wealth, incarceration– no one’s stopping you– but then I suppose you wouldn’t be able to get off on telling other people what they should care about (and essentially telling the blog owner what he should write about). Nor would you get the satisfaction of “mentally weak” people telling you how strong you are, wishing they could be like you and take no interest in these childish topics.
LikeLike
“You’d think commenters with such a “strong sense of self” as the Cynic or Usagi would be able to “get over” others having a conversation they don’t like! ”
In over words, you don’t want me to comment because I don’t share your view. Yes, making your skin color/hair your whole person and constantly thinking about it is unheathy. If black women stop giving so much power on the the status of their hair, they would be less depressed. I think some of them let white’s opionons of them go way too far. The reason why I write to this is because I’m so sick of tried of bp trying me that I need to do something with my hair. I’ll straighten it when I fill like and I not cutting off my hair. These people obsess over it. White and Black Americans are the same when taking any responsbility for any stupid behavior.
LikeLike
Isha says,
All women have an issue with how they are perceived in the world, not only black women. Black women relax and color their hair, but white women perm, bleach, color, straighten, they also put hair pieces, they tan themselves because pasty white skin is apparently not very attractive either. All women need to embrace the fact that they are beautiful
laromana says,
Isha, I agree with you that all women may have an issue with how they’re perceived but ONLY BW are singled out for a brand of HATE that attacks their humanity, dignity, and femininity SOLELY because they’re Black women.
LikeLike
@Usagi
Uh, no. In other words, I think it’s obnoxious and dismissive to tell people on a blog like this that they care too much about what they’re discussing- right up there with “you think too much”. It’s also funny that you agree the discussion is so childish (I personally don’t), yet you apparently have to be apart of it. It’s not my blog- I can’t stop you from commenting. I’m just wondering out loud what you’re getting out of this.
Who in this forum is making skin/hair color their whole person? Constantly talking about it? This is simply one online forum (one venue to discuss skin/hair) yet you seem to suggest that some posters’ lives revolve around hair and skin.
LikeLike
@pajamas
It actually IS annoying having to listen to people focus on unimportant and superficial topics everyday, but I do it because I feel I have to in order to help my community. Most of the black community’s problems stem from a lack of economic power. It is my goal to shift the conversation/mentality to a more pragmatic empowering self-sufficient approach to solving our problems. Spending 50% of our time talking about hair/skin and the other 50% praying/waiting for our White Gods to finally accept us and allow us to progress in American society are not going to get us anywhere.
So there you go. I don’t participate in these conversations because I want to. I do it because I feel I have to.
LikeLike
@
Most of the black community’s problems stem from a lack of economic power.
If American blacks don’t have economic power, the problem is they don’t use their money in the right way. More money is not the solution. A person can buy a house these days in America with $1 down payment. It may be a fixer-upper, but they can take ownership of it. They could fix up each room one by one while living in the house and their equity would be growing as they fix up each room. Instead, many American blacks will spend $400 on a leather coat or a pair of shoes. I don’t think they have the will to uplift themselves, no matter how much money they have. The lack of will is the problem, not lack of money.
LikeLike
@Pajamas
I don’t understand why you’re pissed off. I’m stating an opionon. I see if I was posting on Jill Scott and R&B music because you know, it would be waste of time because I think 95 percent sucks. Rolleyes. What you want me to say ? Some of you people are so sensitive. You’re not getting what I’m saying. If I was saying things ” Oh, woe is the life of bp” , you would’ve not said anything. I’ll say it again, sense you’re so so sad about not being most beautiful person ever to a group of people from a land with horrible food who go bald at the age 45, obsessing over your hair and overs,using it as a political stance and using it to judge person’s self is retarded. It’s retarded. It’s needs to stop.
LikeLike
@laromana–
ONLY BW are singled out for a brand of HATE that attacks their humanity, dignity, and femininity SOLELY because they’re Black women.
Co-signing. Everybody knows they can attack Black women based on the descriptors of a Black woman like hair, complexion, and size and shape of facial features and other anatomy. This is how Black women are singled out. It’s just disgusting that American black men expect for their women to respect them when almost all of the men are quiet and do nothing when the women are being attacked and humiliated publicly. No woman in her right mind would respect a man like that.
LikeLike
I don’t know if this is exclusive to my generation but I have to say, growing up I felt a distinct lack of unity amongst the black community. In my formative years I witnessed/experienced all of the above i.e. attack on my humanity, dignity etc. What I found more and more as I got older is that other black girls/women would distance themselves from each other and say ‘he aint saying that about me’ or worst still, I have even witnessed them laughing at the derogatory comments made from white to black.
What are the experiences of you guys?
LikeLike
@ jorbia
“If American blacks don’t have economic power, the problem is they don’t use their money in the right way. More money is not the solution. A person can buy a house these days in America with $1 down payment. It may be a fixer-upper, but they can take ownership of it. They could fix up each room one by one while living in the house and their equity would be growing as they fix up each room. Instead, many American blacks will spend $400 on a leather coat or a pair of shoes. I don’t think they have the will to uplift themselves, no matter how much money they have. The lack of will is the problem, not lack of money.”
Co-sign. It’s all about having our priorities straight and solving our own problems. Most cultures have figured this out. Why haven’t we? Why are we the only ones that wait for someone else to solve our issues? What we need to understand is this: just because we didn’t break it, doesn’t mean we’re not the ones who have to fix it – especially if it’s in our best interest to do so. Yes lack of will is indeed the main problem.
Now when do we get to talk about that topic?
LikeLike
@
In my formative years I witnessed/experienced all of the above i.e. attack on my humanity, dignity etc. What I found more and more as I got older is that other black girls/women would distance themselves from each other and say ‘he aint saying that about me’ or worst still, I have even witnessed them laughing at the derogatory comments made from white to black.
What are the experiences of you guys?
This is inextricably connected to sexism and racism. Those black women who do that are relieved that at least they personally are not being attacked in that instance. I’ll bet that no one came to their defense when they were under attack.
If the majority of black people view each other disdainfully through the eyes of the current white racial system, as many here have argued, then black girls/women also view themselves and each other through the racialized eyes of the general white populace as well as sexist black males. Racism and sexism are systems that are almost identical except for the different groups they target. Academicians and learned scholars have written books explaining this for decades.
Because I am pale-skinned with the hair, even other black women tend to value me more because they know that I have higher value especially with black men. I don’t have a higher value with white men. Most black women don’t know that though. In a sexist world, what the men of a woman’s group value is very much more important than what women value. Most other black women don’t dismiss me the way they would if I were dark because they know that is pointless. In the hierarchy, they know that even if I and a dark black woman have the same features, I am considered more valuable by black men since I’m much lighter. They also know that the average black man is more likely to defend me and accuse them of being jealous, whether it’s true or not. Most black men think that pale women are nicer, kinder, prettier, more moral, and just better all around.
LikeLike
@ Lookingforanswers–
@ jorbia
“If American blacks don’t have economic power, the problem is they don’t use their money in the right way. More money is not the solution.”
Lookingforanswers replied:
Co-sign. It’s all about having our priorities straight and solving our own problems. Most cultures have figured this out. Why haven’t we? Why are we the only ones that wait for someone else to solve our issues? What we need to understand is this: just because we didn’t break it, doesn’t mean we’re not the ones who have to fix it – especially if it’s in our best interest to do so. Yes lack of will is indeed the main problem.
Now when do we get to talk about that topic?
First of all, honesty is needed. American blacks use most of their time trying to hit at white people. That’s a waste of time and it’s dishonest because whites are not the main problem. Besides, American blacks are not exactly relevant to most white people at this point because they don’t have anything that whites want or need. White people can ignore American blacks and they’re not in the position to do anything but complain about it.
The foundation for American black betterment is fixing the relationship between black men and black women. Until that is fixed, nothing else they do will matter.
LikeLike
Or maybe I should ask when do we get to talk about that topic on this blog?
LikeLike
@Usagi
“Care about your hair is one thing, but some bw go pass that. When you letting your hair diciate your whole personality and using it as the only factor if a person attractive or not. Again, I don’t understand white judgement stops these same color/hair struck black folks from speaking ebonics,enjoying Tyler Perry or eating fried chicken in public, but hair/skin does ?”
I eat fried chicken in public especially at picnics.
I code switch (uninformed people call it ebonics) when I’m in familiar company, like any other casual dialect.
I like Tyler Perry movies, especially The Family That Preys.
I’m trying to understand your point because you haven’t made a valid one yet.
LikeLike
I have comment this issue before, and I agree and disagree. I think hip-hop videoes have great influence on beauty standards and Models like Buffy the Body who promote typical african women atributes. My woman who is African is proud of her butt and lips, but use cream and beauty products to get whiter and are not happy with her hair. I agree with them who prefer european and asian hair, but its just hair and not that importaint if I find a woman beautifull and sexuall atractive or not. I prefer my woman with natural hair, rasta extensions are OK, but other hair extensions who may locks OK at first, are not so nice to touch. Buffy is may a little extreme for my taste but Stella Mwangi aka STL is just a goddess
LikeLike
Maby a little out of this subject, but since im the mode of posting musicvideos of african female artists (Stella is by the way Norwegian-Kenyan) i want to post this video of the Ugandian artist Renah. She does mainly reggae/dance-hall/RnB stuff, but this more typical east-african. A duet with another reggae artist Henry Tigan. She may be a little skinny to be a steriotypical “black beauty” but its something very temptaiting with her body and face-language, and she have a ingenious voice. Anyway, it may sems a little weird but I think she is extremely hot in this video
LikeLike
Well,look at this:
http://www.myblackhair.nl/?p=8306
Dutch Top Model of Colour…
(No, the winner is not white, she is a North West European X South East Asian hybrid, at least she had the decency to be surprised she out modeled the black beauties…)
LikeLike
Oh, her winning was explained with the statement that her “exotic” type is what is very fashionable in international modeling, …
LikeLike
Interesting post, but if you asked Black women if they believed they were beautiful, most like 90% would say yes. Black women, for the most part, accept themselves how they are — flaws and all.
It seems that White women are the opposite — always dieting, changing their appearance, augmenting their bodies/faces surgically, etc.
Yes, I am generalizing, but with all my flaws, I believe I am beautiful and just as good looking as any White girl (or other non-BW). So I’ve never believed that black and beautiful is a contradiction.
LikeLike
“Even so, blacks in America spend nearly a billion dollars a year on plastic surgery.”
Really? I’ve heard of a billion dollars a year on weave/hair care/hair products but plastic surgery?
How many black women “in the hood” can afford plastic surgery?
How many middle-classed blacks are doing this?
I can’t help but feel that if THAT were true then I would see it more. Looking at the ideals of beauty in America why don’t more black women facial features & skin match the american beauty ideal? Because lets face it so much self hatred in Black America more black women would LOOK ‘whitewashed’ like Beyonce and not just their hair if so many people were getting surgery. lol
I’m around nothing but black and I haven’t seen a face that does not look natural. I see nothing but natural BLACK features and hair weaves. Everyone rocking blonde weave (which I despise btw) and I’m a black girl..some women can pull it off but MOST can’t so PLEASE stop wearing blonde weaves my fellow black women it’s not becoming of you AT ALL. PERIOD.
LikeLike
Also see a big increase of black women wearing natural hair which I’m so proud of…now lets get the other women to join this movement! lol
LikeLike
I think black people & black media need to support and encourage self love. I know this point I’m making is simple compared to other comments but its still true. WE need to love OURSELVES, WE need to support black beauty, WE need to support black media, WE need to stop asking for hand-me-downs from white media (i.e. ‘The Frog Princess’), WE need stop waiting for and fighting for acceptance from other races or society because it will NEVER happen. WE need self acceptance & acceptance of each other. A simple arguement but the true! I’m not saying this because I don’t get the point behind this article. I do. However, we need to work on moving pass this hill and work on WAY bigger issues in Black America until self hate and being bullied by society will continue because we’re acting like wink links and easy targets.
PS: the reason why I mentioned ‘The Frog Princess’ above is because I don’t view it as a Disney princess movie. I view it as a joke. This is what happens when WE as a people beg for white people to give us things that they only want or care about doing for themselves. Our first black princess movie should have been created by black people with self-love. By waiting for Disney (white animation) to give us a princess look what happened..she was a FROG 90% of the film even the barbie Tiana wasn’t as special. They should’ve made her dress bigger & more vibrant and put a sparkle or glisten in her eyes but nooooo what did I expect?
LikeLike
I’m not disagreeing with this post, but it is hardly a black thing. The Japanese use the harshest chemicals in their perm to straighten their hairs and whites use this as well. White women and latinas spend millions and probably even billions straightening their hair, bleaching it blonde, or getting extensions. I have met many black women, including myself, who straighten their hair, but a majority of whites and latinas I grew up with spent hours maintaining their hair, and some never showing their true curls and getting quite emotional about it. Bleaching, perming, flat ironing, blow drying, Brazilian straightening thing, etc. they all damage hair and cost money to keep up. The hair industry would be nothing like it is now without women in general.
White women spend a plethora of money on plastic surgery and tanning themselves.
I’m just trying to get rid of this notion that black women hate themselves the most and that no other type of woman is spending money to alter their appearance.
So I am not discrediting that there is this “idea” that thick hair, thick nose, and chocolatey skin is deemed unattractive by our society, in fact I have been ardently arguing against this for awhile now(and it is really hard when you have already been strongly affected by society), but most women, despite skin color or hair texture, have been affected by this Western mindset.
LikeLike
“Even so, blacks in America spend nearly a billion dollars a year on plastic surgery.”
Really? Then they must be spending it on slight facial changes or other types of surgery, such as liposuction et cetera, as I don’t recall ever seeing any Blacks in everyday life with strangely narrowed/pointed noses, monster cheekbones, jutting chins or pencil line lips. It must be Black celebrities who are spending the bulk of that billion dollars a year on plastic surgery.
On the other hand, I do know of a very active product review site with thousands of mostly white female members. On any given day one can read hundreds of messages on the site’s numerous message boards covering all the latest surgeries, wrinkle creams, pimple lotions, injections, chemicals, skin sanding techniques, botox, body hair removal techniques, pills, dyes, bleaches, conditioners, shampoos, hair straightening techniques, sprays, ointments, powders, self-tanners etc. on the market that might help them get rid of their “crowsfeet”, “marionette lines” and “elevens”.
I don’t know of any COMPARABLE mostly Black female site….
LikeLike
@ Bulanik
That refers to the frown lines that develop between the eyes on the forehead (formally known as Glabella) It is commonly treated with Botox or Dysport injections.
LikeLike
I agree with commenter usagi! Hmmm…why do I like this natural hair movement is a new way of saying: Your not black enough!
LikeLike
I see a lot of attractive Black women walking around with weave ons on and I think it’s sad. They just scream “self-hatred” to me. Wearing them is like saying to the world “Natural Black hair is disgusting and inferior to straight hair” and that is the message the world gets, I’ve seen many different nationalities and races mocking Black self-hatred of their own hair. They don’t respect us because they feel we hate ourselves.
The ironic thing is Black women look so much better with their natural hair. I personally love the texture of natural African hair. Yes, it is harder work than non-African hair but it’s definitely worth doing. If you have been given something unique that nobody else has like we have with our hair then it doesn’t make sense to hide it and be ashamed of it we should embrace it. Even if Black people hate their hair they should wear their own hair as a matter of principle.
The problem is, White people feel threatened by Black women who wear their hair naturally and that gives Black women who wear their hair naturally big problems in work situations since White people control most employment, so Black women put chemicals on their hair or weave ons to appease White racism. I don’t like it but I can understand why they conform White beauty standards in the workplace since they’ve got to eat.
I’ve also read that Black women don’t get much attention from Black men when they wear their hair naturally. It is a shame that the self-hatred we’ve been taught still has such a hold on Black men’s minds.
When I was a child in the 80s it was accepted that Black looks were inferior to white ones, thin lips, straight hair and pale skin were the ideal. Full lips were seen as disgusting Nappy hair was the lowest and very dark skin was a reason for constant ridicule. Jheri curls, Leisure curls and relaxed hair were everywhere as were Black people wearing coloured contacts insisting they were their natural eye colour.
I remember when I was at school and a group of Black kids were mercilessly teasing a pretty, very dark skinned girl called Dana incessantly for being very dark. It was terrible. I remember at the time feeling very relieved and grateful that I was the average dark brown colour of Black people. Nowadays I wouldn’t mind being jet black as women seem to dig that look a lot now.
LikeLike
Robert wrote:
“I see a lot of attractive Black women walking around with weaves on and I think it’s sad.”
Weaves?? Weaves don’t seem as bad as the myriad of OBVIOUS wigs I’ve been seeing a lot of lately. The wig industry has gotta be taking in billions!
In NYC I see black females from the ages of 11 on up wearing WIGS like never before. It’s like there’s a wig pandemic here! Blond, red, brown, brunette .. even purple, blue and other bizarre colors.
…..
…..
…..
LikeLike
@ Matari
Anything but their own hair eh? Wigs oh dear, no doubt that nonsense will come over here in the near future, we always import all the bad stuff from America.
I dont think straight hair suits Black female faces it looks all wrong. Natural African hair suits Black faces. How the hell did we back slide from the mid to late 60s natural hair afro movement back to this?
LikeLike
Jess said “I’m just trying to get rid of this notion that black women hate themselves the most and that no other type of woman is spending money to alter their appearance.”
Jess. This is a false equivalency. People who are born with straight/wavy hair who decide to color or alter it in whatever fashion are not the same as black women being ashamed of and hiding their natural hair texture because they have been brainwashed over four centuries into believing everything about them is wrong, bad and unattractive. It’s totally different.
These women are spending money to enhance a hair texture they already possess in 98.9% of the cases. Black women are spending money to chemically alter their natural hair texture and/or to hide their natural texture under fake hair that comes from the other ¾ of people on the Earth with straight/wavy hair.
Before that brief black is beautiful moment in the 70s, no black woman would be caught dead with “nappy” hair. Now I’m not saying just because a certain individual decides to perm their hair that they are themselves self-hating. But there is a collective self-hate in our community which is clearly reflected in the supposed need and desire to use harmful substances to change what God gave you, the belief of certain men that only long, flowing shiny hair is acceptable on a woman, and the belief of many women that feminine and pretty cannot exist while wearing their natural hair texture.
Wear your hair how you wish, but please don’t live in denial about what it means for black people and women as a whole. Don’t be ignorant of your history. I know it threatens some women who want to feel like they are making a true choice about how to wear their hair, but I will never hesitate to call weaves and relaxing out for what they signify: self-hate and internalized oppression. It is not just a choice when you face social stigma and reduced romantic or job opportunities because you are wearing your hair the way it grows out of the top of your head.
Try and think globally about this people. This is bigger than you as one black woman. It’s not a matter of being “obsessed” with hair and it’s not an old and stale topic. It needs to be faced and dealt with. As soon as people stop asking black women when are they gonna do something with their hair, as soon as black people stop categorizing straight hair as “good” and afro textured hair as “bad” and when a major sex symbol proudly wears afro textured hair, not relaxed not weave not braided weave, and nobody has anything to say about it, then this topic can be put to rest.
LikeLike
why do people care so much about what society says? if you think you look good, that’s all that matters. I’ve found I’m a lot more confident in my looks since going natural (well, I’ve always been natural, but I used to always cover it up in braids with extensions) because I feel like I’m showing my true self to the world. Yeah, it’s interesting having to style my hair everyday but it’s worth it. I stopped wearing braids once I realized it’s dumb to hide my hair for no reason
LikeLike
From laromana:
The problem is, White people feel threatened by Black women who wear their hair naturally and that gives Black women who wear their hair naturally big problems in work situations since White people control most employment, so Black women put chemicals on their hair or weave ons to appease White racism. I don’t like it but I can understand why they conform White beauty standards in the workplace since they’ve got to eat.
I’ve also read that Black women don’t get much attention from Black men when they wear their hair naturally. It is a shame that the self-hatred we’ve been taught still has such a hold on Black men’s minds.
When I was a child in the 80s it was accepted that Black looks were inferior to white ones, thin lips, straight hair and pale skin were the ideal. Full lips were seen as disgusting Nappy hair was the lowest and very dark skin was a reason for constant ridicule. Jheri curls, Leisure curls and relaxed hair were everywhere as were Black people wearing coloured contacts insisting they were their natural eye colour.
I remember when I was at school and a group of Black kids were mercilessly teasing a pretty, very dark skinned girl called Dana incessantly for being very dark. It was terrible. I remember at the time feeling very relieved and grateful that I was the average dark brown colour of Black people. Nowadays I wouldn’t mind being jet black as women seem to dig that look a lot now.
laromana says,
It angers me when BW are berated/demeaned/disrespected for the choices they make to enhance/alter their appearance when the REAL problem behind the negative way BW are viewed/treated in America isn’t HOW WE CHOOSE TO WEAR OUR HAIR, but ANTI-BW HATE.
NON-BW are NEVER JUDGED for choosing to alter their appearance( eg. plastic surgery, hair coloring, weaves, colored contacts etc.) and their beauty is accepted/respected REGARDLESS of whether it’s “natural” or fake.
Robert’s comments accurately describe how ANTI-BW HATE manifests itself at every level of our culture and how BRAINWASHED ANTI-BW thinking contributes to the mistreatment of BW by EVERYONE (including many BM).
To BW HATERS it doesn’t matter that there are many beautiful BW (please see pic below of Miss Universe 2011/Leila Lopes former Miss Angola 2011), they only see BW throughBRAINWASHED/HATEFUL eyes.
I feel strongly that BW are the MOST DISRESPECTED women on the planet because many BM choose to PUBLICLY PROMOTE/CONDONE ANTI-BW HATE instead of confronting,condemning,helping to destroy it/PUBLICLY defending the humanity, dignity, and femininity of their SAME RACE women.
LikeLike