“Love Hurts” (2011) is a 30-second ad for Pepsi Max that appeared on American television during the Super Bowl game, watched by 111 million people. And there in all its glory was the Sapphire stereotype: black women as angry, overbearing, undesirable and hard to get along with. On top of that it showed black people as violent and heartless.
The ad shows a black couple where the woman is trying to get her husband to eat right. When he orders French fries at a restaurant, she kicks him under the table. When he starts to eat a pie, she shoves his face in it. When he is hiding in the shower eating a burger, she takes it and pushes soap in his mouth. Even when he is at the park about to drink a Pepsi Max, she shows up! But this time she approves: “Pepsi Max: zero calories.”
He adds, “Maximum taste!” Just then a pretty, young white female runner shows up, thin, blonde, smiling and friendly. Quite unlike his angry, dark-skinned wife. When he greets the white woman, his wife screws up her face in anger and throws her can of Pepsi Max at him. He ducks and it hits the blonde in the head, knocking her to the ground. The black couple runs off, leaving the white woman lying there injured.
One of the main things wrong with this ad is that it plays to stereotypes about blacks: black women as undesirable shrews, blacks as violent and heartless, blacks as lacking in self-control.
Confirmation bias is the air that stereotypes breathe. It gives them life. So when black women, for example, are stereotyped as angry and overbearing, then every example of an angry, overbearing black woman makes the stereotype seem that much more believable, making it stronger. “See, there is some truth to it after all!”
Particularly an example seen by over 100 million people.
Notice that if all the characters were white it would not have the same effect:
- A white wife’s anger and violence would be seen as personal, as true of just her, not of her race. Because white women are not stereotyped that way.
- White women on television are seen as just women and run the full range. They are not limited to just a handful of stereotypes.
- Most viewers know enough white women in their own lives to know how seriously to take what they see on television.
Whites seem to get much of what they think they know about blacks from television.
Blacks for the most part do not control how they are presented on television: it is whites who run the television networks, even BET, and it is whites who create most of the images of black people you see. And even of the few black-produced images, the ones that do best are, sadly, the ones that play to stereotype – Tyler Perry, rap videos, “Precious”, etc.
So, yes, stuff like this matters. Unfortunately.
See also:
hey good post, sheila jackson lee spoke against this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9dFuWADnpIg
Also, I am getting sick of people saying things like this do not matter. They do matter this is part of the reason that black women are disrespected and no one bothers to search for us when we go missing. Because we are stereotyped as not being “woman enough” to be afforded the same respect and decency as white women. I also took offense that she was so violent in the commercial, now black women just randomly throw cans at people on purpose?
There is only one thing I disagree with,
this statement “Just then a pretty, young white female runner shows up, thin, blonde and friendly”
Pretty…she was average looking to me, I would say she and the black woman honestly had about the same looks in actuality. the black woman would have been prettier if she wasn’t scowling the whole time and they bothered to give her a decent wig. So to me they were equally good looking, but ofcourse we know in this society if a woman is blonde and thin for some reason that automatically equated with attractiveness no matter how average or plain looking the woman actually is.
I also agree it wouldnt have had the same effect if it had been all white people, they chose a black couple for a specific purpose and they knew exactly what they were doing.
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there are people who are boycotting pepsi: http://www.change.org/petitions/boycott-pepsi—racist-superbowl-commercial-stereotypes-black-women#signatures
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The saddest thing about this ad are the new-school clueless blogging blacks that defend it as “funny” and non-offensive. I wrote about the exact same thing (http://halloftheblackdragon.com/reel/4501/stop-with-the-angry-black-woman-on-commercials-please.html) but on another site was firmly in the minority on the offense. Plainly, if we subscribe to this nonsense it will keep occurring, black people disappoint me very much lately.
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It was a rather silly commercial, with or without the racial slant. I don’t bother with whatever foolish stereotypes that are promoted by Pepsi or other companies, since it’s recycled gibberish from since the beginning of the current “standard”. I simply stop at the majority of the tripe passing as entertainment and turn my attention elsewhere…:/
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I am in complete agreement that this commercial plays into the angry black woman sterotype. I cannot ever recall viewing a commercial where a white woman was shown as being angry, out of control or just mean. If so there was definitely a reason stated as to why she was that way. But on the other hand, this commercial depicts the angry black woman as we have seen her displayed time and time again as being mean, out of control and evil…just because; no reason for her actions…just mean and evil…just because she is. smh
Pepsi definitely is out of order with this commercial.
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That commercial packed a lot of stereotypes in a very short period of time.
http://www.theurbanpolitico.com/2011/02/angry-black-woman-goes-to-superbowl.html
It countenanced violence against men. It showed a black woman that was unattractive, dark, mean and mannish looking in face and in size. The black man was weak. Despite the fact that B/W intermarriage is rare it played to a paranoia surrounding it.
That commercial does not work if it is the man being abusive or if the Black woman is played by someone more attractive. It also doesn’t work if the Black woman is compared favorably to the white woman. I’m waiting for the commercial in which a white man is being yelled at by Kathy Bates or Roseanne Barr only to cast an approving glance at Nicole Ari Parker or Oluchi Onweagba.
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I don’t follow football, but, I recall reading a blog post last year, somewhere about how a number of the ads were derogatory towards women.
So they have not learned much since then it seems.
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Things like these matter. A lot. It’s not just a stupid commercial or a movie full of stereotypes. It shapes people’s view on other people, and while presentations can never be as true as the real thing, making them so full of stereotypes is malicious, to say the least. It makes people think “all blacks are… (insert stereotype)”, and there’s nothing black people can do to prevent this. Nothing. Because media is stronger.
Apart from general racism and malice, a great part is played by cultural miscommunication. It makes whites unable to interpret what they see when they see black people (or any other culture) interact.
Some groups have different cultural norms or behaviour than American WASPs. For example, talking loudly. Many groups are accused of this “they always yell to each other and fight!”, while that way of speech pattern is considered normal and completely non-violent (and WASP way is seen as boring and cold). And this is just one example of cultural miscommunication.
So when they interpret this, they will make it the way they see it: as being violent, angry and wild. So they will include other elements that they associate with volence: physical fight, etc.
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[…] Pepsi ad that I came across on this blog shows an always angry calorie obsessed black wife who is abusive towards her husband. Abagond, […]
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i wanted to post a comment but it was too long, so i turned it into a blog post.
http://anglesanddimensions.wordpress.com/2011/02/17/pepsi-super-bowl-ad-apart-from-being-unfunny-it-is/
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“A white wife’s anger and violence would be seen as personal, as true of just her, not of her race. Because white women are not stereotyped that way.”
So I guess the problem is that most WP think that anything that is true of one black person is automatically true of all blacks. If more WP spent more time with more BP than it wouldn’t matter how a particular black woman was portrayed on TV because it wouldn’t reflect on all black women. Until that actually happens we need to be more careful about how BP are portrayed in the media because negative stereotypes reinforce the barriers we need to deconstruct. Any portrayal that reinforces a stereotype is counterproductive whether it’s coming from a Pepsi commercial or from a rap video.
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“I’m waiting for the commercial in which a white man is being yelled at by Kathy Bates or Roseanne Barr only to cast an approving glance at Nicole Ari Parker or Oluchi Onweagba.”
perfect. and why not make that commercial?!?! It would be refreshing and memorable. people would talk about it.
Of course some would say it was exoticism. “Is your white wife not working out so well? try an exotic black woman.”
Until WP and BP actually start spending a lot of quality time together it doesn’t really matter how BP are portrayed in the media. There’s no way to “do it right” because the underlying issues still persist.
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anglo-american racism at work
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@Greg Dragon – I totally agree. I actually stopped going to some “Black blogs” because of that same attitude I run into in those spaces. As a Black woman, it hurts to see commercials or movies that continuously portray you in the worst light possible. However, it burns even more for people who you thought would have your back telling you that you shouldn’t be offended because the portrayal was funny or no big deal or even accurate(!).
This commercial could have been funny if they had done it differently.
It wasn’t only Black women that were offended by this commercial though. I saw a number of responses from Whites who felt that it made Black-on-White violence seem funny or non-offensive. I hope Pepsi removes it from the air.
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There was quite a debate on this video when NPR ran a story on it. Of course most the white commenters were saying, “What’s the big deal? Who cares? It’s just a funny commercial! Lighten up!”
I’ll repost my response to them here:
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Also, there was absolutely no reason reason they couldn’t have put a cute black woman at the end. The people that did the casting for this commercial just assumed black men are crazy about blonds and that it whips black women into a frenzy. Just like the movie Obsessed. None of this was any accident. Things like the race of actors are carefully chosen by marketing firms.
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Sorry, one last thing I forgot to add. Could you imagine the reverse? A commercial about an angry white woman beating her husband up and then at the last moment, he gives the eye to a black woman sitting on the bench and the white woman getting jealous to the point of violence? Never!
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FYI: this commercial was made by black people.
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Do you have a source for that?
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@Dr. G
Where are you getting this from? According to NPR link:
http://www.npr.org/2011/02/14/133750467/Domestic-Violence-Is-Never-Funny?sc=fb&cc=fp
This is Brad Bosley’s website and he doesn’t appear black to me:
http://www.bradbosley.com/home.html
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Here is the Pepsico press release:
http://www.pepsico.com/PressRelease/PepsiCos-Doritos-and-Pepsi-MAX-Brands-Dominate-USA-TODAY-Ad-Meter-With-Consumer-02072011.html
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@ Peanut:
It is clear from the ad that the white woman is meant to be pretty: he smiles at her and talks to her, even though his wife is sitting right there seeing the whole thing.
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@Shady_Grady,
You probably know me as “ch555x” on other blogs…
Don’t give ’em too many ideas…they’ll end up doing a “Monster’s Ball” sequel with their current mindset!
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Peanut
the link does not work. I wanted to sign the petition. Also I will not be buying Pepsi again. Always preferred coke anyway. Or water.;-)
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Di:
The petition is here:
http://www.change.org/petitions/boycott-pepsi—racist-superbowl-commercial-stereotypes-black-women
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everyone post that petition to their Facebook page!
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I think this is another case of trying to “lighten up” a serious issue. I think by turning serious matters into comedy or satire we diminish the importance of how serious the issue really is. In the end people will think that it’s a laughing matter and will therefore fail to see the offensiveness or pain it cases. Sadly, it has been done to the point where it is no longer seen as sad and embarrassing to some, but humorous. That’s a reason some people refute the notion of it being offensive for the sake of some belly laughs. All in all, it’s just another case of trying to make whites feel good about not being black.
What do you think?
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Also, I know about the historic and societal implications that continuously play on negative stereotypes about black women, but I think commercial as well as TV and movies help to make humor out a serious topic to the point where people won’t talk about it, but will laugh about it instead.
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Personally, I thought the black wife was pretty enough. Definately not ugly my any means or even unattractive. Same with the white gal, for that matter. Neither was a raving beauty, however.
The two black actors were well suited for each other–an attractive couple for the most part, even though the guy was a bit hen-pecked.
But yeah, I guess it could cause some blacks to think it was feeding black female stereotypes. I disagree that it couldn’t have worked with a black gal playing the jogger though.
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Abagond & Family:
When I saw the ad during the Super Bowl, I knew in an instant it was created by black folk, and thus, I understood the “Black Anger” that it was confronting us with. As black people, we need to have a brutally honest discussion about whitewomen in this country, and all of the hysteria that takes place because of them.
The “Pepsi Max” ad is a glaring example of whitemen using whitewomen as a means to an end. Corporate America, Hollywood, and Professional Sports play the same game. Put the whitewoman out front, keep black people distracted with sports and entertainment, focus on acquiring more wealth and power. Whitemen have the power, but whitewomen dictate it’s cause and affect. Whitewomen are not in love with whitemen, so, they have no incentive to keep it real at all times……Whitemen are boxed-in no matter what. Portraying blackwomen as angry, jealous women benefits them because it marginalizes their archenemy, Blackwomen. Whitewomen can’t compete with blackwomen head-to-head, so they exploit the system.
Whitewomen may be a sexual fantasy to some blackmen, but, l think otherwise. Abortion is supported by liberal whitewomen…the majority of aborted babies are black. The majority of welfare recipients are whitewomen…blackwomen are portrayed as welfare-queens who don’t want better in life. Drug laws were enacted in the US to protect innocent whitewomen in the South from doped-up blackmen who would rape them, of course…all of the death and destruction amongst our people because of an assumption not based on fact. Whitewomen are not innocent victims…Let us not continue to play that bulls**t game anymore. We’re debating with each other about a “False Premise” that whites themselves don’t even believe anymore. Whitewomen are not the most beautiful women on the planet. Black people, don’t get blinded by the light, Okay?!
Tyrone
Right Thinking…Wrong Thinking
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@CDF…that’s a good point. =)
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Hi Abagond, everyone,
The following is my take on the matter that originally appeared over at Very Smart Brothas:
VSB’s Take On The Super Bowl Pepsi Max Ad Obsidians Response
4:02 PM 2/9/2011 Wed
Good Morning Panama, Everyone,
As per usual, interesting topic. Not because of the topic itself, which is an ad hawking a product, but because of the messages implied in said ad.
I didn’t watch the Super Bowl the other night, and I rarely watch sporting events of any kind; my reasons for not doing so are another comment for another time. But I did indeed hear about his ad in question from friends and the like, and decided to check it out. While I didn’t find it as gut-splittingly hilarious as apparently some here and elsewhere did, I also wasn’t “offended” by it either. I think the ad was, to be frank, quite honest. Brutally so, in fact – and hence all the consternation in just about every quarter.
That the “strong Black Matriarch” archetype is one that generates disdaindul reactions from a goodly portion of American Black Women, is indeed quite odd to me; after all, it was Black Women themselves who have crafted such a persona in the first place, and tenaciously cling to it in good times and in bad. The ad shows a rather domineering, somewhat overweight Black Woman, who runs the roost and her Black Male mate along with it. And when said mate sees something that is apparently missing from his day to day life – a pleasant, smiling feminine face, that yes, is indeed White, blue-eyed and blone-haired – his whole demeanor changes. It is at this point the “strong, independent” Black Woman really cranks it up a notch, by using violence (regardless as to how comedically depicted) to “take out” the threat.
If indeed a majority of American Black Women so offended, per a recent poll taken by the BlackVoices website, perhaps they need to truthfully examine why they feel this way: is it because Pepsi chose to peddle in utterly baseless stereotypes – or is it because Pepsi, whether intentionally or otherwise, nevertheless depicted something that we all know – White and Black alike – to be TRUE? After all, Comedy only works, because the topics it takes on has more than a ring of truth to them. If it wasn’t true, nobody would laugh.
It has been firmly established that Black Women in aggregate tend to be more “pushy”, more assertive, more aggressive, than other groups of Women. Of course this is a generalization, but they do have utility, no matter how much we may wish to deny it. “Mean mugging” is a term that has become synonymous with the designation “Black Woman”; White, Asian, East Indian, for that matter, not even Jewish or Arab Women aren’t associated with such a visage. Sistas can be heard and seen, reveling in their fierce independence, their short fuses, and their unwillingness to take any guff off of anybody. The “Sapphire/Don’t Bring Me Any Bad News!” meme just didn’t come out of nowehere. Especially when Black Women themselves, again, taken as a group, seem to find so much justification in having a hand in creating, and in any event, maintaining the role.
And while there have been strides in this regard, the stubborn truth remains, that the American, indeed, Western, standard of beauty and femininity, remains White – or as close to that as is humanly possible. This remains an intensely sore point for Black Women, which is completely understandable; but Black Women have about as much a chance as changing this as short Men have of changing Womens’ minds about their preference for tall Men. Yes, there is indeed a hardwiring preference along these lines for “fairer skinned” Women, one that is nearly universal in range and scope, and while it is understandable as to why such a thought is so very contentious within an American context, it’s about time we matured a bit in our understanding of life and accepted this truth for what it is. It is my view that too much focus is put upon the things they (Black Women) cannot change, or can change only with considerable effort, cost and even potential risk to their health. Instead of so many Black Women literally killing themselves trying to look like White (and Asian for that matter, since it is Asian Womens’ hair they are often buying), they might consider working on the things they far and away more control over, such as cultivating a more submissive, feminine demeanor, adopting more feminine styles of dress and deportment, smiling more, and yes, losing weight. All of these things are far more achievable, less costly and indeed safer, than bleaching creams, hair extensions, eye contacts and so forth. No, you won’t have flowing tresses, but you don’t need to; you have your own beauty, and that’s something worth cultivating. A big part of a Woman’s beauty, believe it or not, is in the way she carries herself.
The henpecked Brotha in the ad is also worthy of mention here, because in many ways, he represents a very powerful dynamic in Black American life that few if any Brothas are willing to openly discuss, and that’s the fact that Black Men are the products of a Matriarchal culture – one that hardly needs any explanation or exposition. While the ad depicted this firm fact of Black American life, the realworld realities of such a culture are woefully too evident to see, and even among the more Black middle classes, it is not at all uncommon to hear of Black Women bemoaning their mate’s being beholden in an unhealthy way to his mother – or in many ways a heck of a lot worse, Black Men being terribly beholden to their mates themselves.
All in all I thought the ad was very interesting, and provided a great of grist for the mill in terms of honest discussion with an eye towards deep introspection and the potential for change. Somehow however, I don’t have a heck of a lot of faith this will happen. If I’ve learned anything about my fellow Brothas and particularly Sistas, its that we have an uncanny knack for denial.
That’s it.
Holla back
The Obsidian
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I agree that this promotes unfortunate stereotypes, but was it necessarily deliberate on the ad-makers’ part?
I’ve seen plenty of ads that have similar themes but without the racial angle. The pushy wife is a common trope in ads and its hardly restricted to black people.
It’s quite possible that the director didn’t even consider there were racial stereotypes at play here. Is it possible that the characters were just seen as “people” as opposed to black people?
Again, I think they should have known better. But I wonder if this is a case of someone innocently portraying something that conforms to a stereotype, as opposed to deliberately portraying it for effect?
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ES,
As you can see in my previous comment, I am making the case that the stereotype comes about and persists in our time, in large part because Black Women themselves want it to. Please review it.
O.
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Ok, I watched the commercial, and I agree abut everything Abagond said, but one thing: I didn’t find black woman to be unattractive. She was beautiful, but that wasn’t the point: it was still a Saphire stereotype. The white girl was plain, nothing special, though I really don’t understand why they used a white girl; a black one would do as well.
Also, I agree with jas0nburns: the commercial with whites (and black girl in the park) wouldn’t be the same, because of different race dynamics. The black girl wouldn’t be seen as a dream come true, but as an exotic fantasy. Also, I’ve noticed they try to avoid showing white on black violence in media.
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ES,
Well, jealous, pushy wife is definitely something that is often played for laughs in my culture. If I watched this commercial 5 years ago, I’d probably think they were just people. But I think I understand race in America a little better now, and I no, I don’t think they are portrayed as “people in general” and “jealous wives in general”. These were a black woman and a black man. If I learned one thing about US race dynamics, is that when white Americans say “people in general” they mean “white Americans”. Nobody else. If it’s somebody else, they make it specific and play to racial and ethnic stereotypes.
Now, if blacks were the ones created the commercial, the interpretation is a bit different. Some might argue it’s kissing whites a.ss or self-hate and accepting stereotypes about your own group. Could be. But it could also be a situation in which you use a common trope (jealous wife) and you choose actors that look like people of your own group, because they are defaults to you. However, black or not, the creators of this commercial are Americans (I assume), so they should have known better. I’ve seen many comical portrayals in black produced films, but there are usually people who are normal and decent, and even if there aren’t, it is assumed (I think) that the target audience know not all black people are like the ones portrayed in the film. But it’s different when you target your work to the wide audience.
In any case, I don’t understand why the girl had to be white. It’s just… wrong and plays to another stereotype.
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Also, check out the youtube comments. Those with the highest rating are the ones saying stuff along the lines of: “relax, people, it’s not a big deal! Oh, and I’m a black woman, btw”.
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I bet the people on the Youtube comments section who said they were unoffended black women were lying and weren’t black women.
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I don’t know what to make of the ad. The stereotypes portrayed were unfortunate to say the very least. However, from a business standpoint they did the dayum thing. Like Shady said, this comercial wouldn’t have cultivated such a response nor would it have “worked” if the cast was monoracial.
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“If I learned one thing about US race dynamics, is that when white Americans say “people in general” they mean “white Americans”. Nobody else. If it’s somebody else, they make it specific and play to racial and ethnic stereotypes.”
Thank you. That is such a true statement. If you ever hear white people have conversations, they may go something like this:
Speaker 1: Hey, how was your day?
Speaker 2: Don’t ask. I had one of those days.
Speaker 1: Tell me about your day. What happened?
Speaker 2: Well, I was at the gas station paying for my
gas and the black guy paying in front of me
spend like 15 minutes buying lottery tickets
and arguing with the Indian clerk over which
numbers and tickets he had bought.
Speaker 1: That’s it? Well, that not too bad. When I was
school today the guy in front of me chewed his
gum so loud that I couldn’t focus on my math
test. Of course, my Korean professor kicked
the annoying guy’s butt outta class. I felt sorry
for the guy afterwards. It was a huge test.
Essentially, when white people talk to other white people about non-white, they make sure to indicate what race those people are.
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Mira said:
Very astute observation. Just wanted to give you kudos. It’s a breath of fresh air to hear a white person acknowledge that because that’s one aspect of white privilege that’s completely invisible to about 90% of white people an explaining it them is like trying to explain water to a fish.
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How do you put your post in italics? Bold? Red? Blue?
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“Essentially, when white people talk to other white people about non-white, they make sure to indicate what race those people are.”
That’s true. And it’s started to feel really jarring to me when i’m part of the conversation. Obviously non-whites do this as well but the context is different at least when I have been present.
The other day a white coworker was telling me how he was at the gym and these two guys were doing really high vertical jumps, he said “they were both tall black guys but still, it was impressive” as if the fact they were black made it a given that they would be great jumpers or something, and it would have been more impressive if they were white and could still manage to jump high.
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If I learned one thing about US race dynamics, is that when white Americans say “people in general” they mean “white Americans”. Nobody else. If it’s somebody else, they make it specific and play to racial and ethnic stereotypes.
This point has been made many times by various people. Toni Morrison did an interview with Ebony where she wrote that when a white writer is talking about a black character, you’d know because they’d point out that the character was black.
A few days ago, I heard the newswoman pointed out that the mistress of the Repuplican Congress who posted the racy photos on Craigslist was African American. I remember thinking. Why’s it important to point out that his mistress is African American. If the mistress had been white, they wouldn’t have reported it.
Samuel L. Jackson’s character in a Time to Kill told Matthew McConaughey’s character that no matter how he looked at him, he’d always see him as a black man first and never just a man.
I always say there’s a difference btween recognizing race and dwelling on race. It’s one thing when you recognize that I am black, but it’s another if you keep pointing out that I am black.
These cases can be used as good tests for race consciousness.
If the person’s race/ethnicity is not important to story, then don’t bring it up.
There’s a difference between saying:
“A black guy fell down in front of me, today.”
VERSUS
“A guy fell down in front of me today.”
With the first statement, you get the sense that it matters that the guy who fell down was black. With the second scenario, the gist of the story is that a guy fell down NOT that it was a black guy who fell down.
I once heard Janice Dickenson tell the story of her photographer boyfriend who cheated on her with a black chick.
I remember thinking: Is she mad because he cheated on her, or is she mad because the girl he cheated on her with was black?
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@Calculator. You can use these symbols. for Italics and for bold.
Of course, you’ll erase the space between them.
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Oops, it didn’t work.
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@obsidian
wtf dude? I mean seriously can’t you as a black man compare this scenario to stereotypes that pertain to you? I mean would you say that it’s ok to have commercials depicting black men as violent thugs because some black men cultivate that image?
If, as you say black women shoulder some of the blame for perpetuating these stereotypes, would that excuse whites from perpetuating the same stereotypes in the media? Keep in mind that most whites don’t hang out with many black women. So while this may be just another aspect of black womanhood to you these stereotypical depictions are all we see. They make up the sum total of our concept of black women and that is very damaging to black women.
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@Calculator, here’s a site you can check out.
http://www.querycat.com/question/05c49bf52a85909932b9b5f86202f0b4
for bold, you can use “b” in the brackets instead of . e.g.
For colors, you write out the name. e.g. blue, red inside the greater than/lesser than signs. e.g
there should always be a slash in the second closing bracket. e.g
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Hi Jason,
Well, for one thing, if people don’t like a particular product for whatever reason, they can do what anyone does in a free market society – don’t buy the product. That’s what I do, and it’s worked very well for me.
Second, Black Women spend considerable time among and around Whites as a result of extended education and work related stuff. In fact, many Whites know the deal along these lines, it’s just PC cant prevents them from openly speaking on it.
O.
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I wish that everyone would stop saying that black women have rage toward white women and that white women have it so easy. Nobody seems to acknowledge that there are plenty of beautiful black women out there…not overweight, not masculine and certainly not jealous of white women.
And regarding the comment that the white woman is seen as the dream come true and the black woman would be seen as the exotic fantasy… WTF?…too much time on your hand…an exotic fantasy is a dream come true…Attractive black women dont sweat over white women and how “good” they have it. Know that …Not all of us sit around worrying about white women. I know that I am fine and am told that by white and black men…daily. This conversation gets on my nerves
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This should be red.
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This should be blue.
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@Obsidian
How you would like it if the commercial was about a black man who was in prison but broke out because he badly needed a Pepsi? Once again, JasONburn made a good point. Black men are often seen as violent thugs on tv. But are all black men violent thugs? No obviously. Some black men might fit that stereotype but most don’t. Well, I wouldn’t be surprised if some black women fit the angry, lunatic stereotype but many black women are nothing like this. Sigh. With black men like you on our side, who needs white racist. Look, the next commercial could be racist against black men and you wouldn’t like it if some foolish black women were happy about the commercial like you clearly are about this Pepsi commercial. We as a people need to unite against racism, not laugh at each others misfortune.
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@Disgusted
Yeah, I agree with you. Why do people think that black women are so violently jealous of white women and that somehow is the real reason why we are upset about this commercial. People need to get over themselves. Black women are upset because we are portrayed in the same negative manner over and over and over again. Jealousy has nothing to do with it. We want to be treated with respect. And the media has a way of disrespecting us over and over again. We want to be treated the same way as other people. I would love to see black women portrayed in different ways. I don’t have a problem if a black women portays a bad person from time to time but I would like to see her portrayed in interesting non-stereotypical ways as well. Of course there are mean, maniacal black women who are jealous and cruel but there are many black women who are nothing like this. Television is so boring and it limits and puts black women in a box over and over again. We are do not live in a box and we are not clones with the same personality and intellect. We are human beings and we deserve to be represented in a interesting and intelligent manner.
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as mad as i am about the commercial, i’m over it. i mean black women can’t be themselves in this society without getting judged so harshly. if we wear weaves, we want to be white, if we have an attitude, we’re called bitter, bitches, etc. there is a youtube video telling black women to free themselves. that’s what i’m going to do because i’m not perfect and neither are women from different. i may have an attitude but it’s because i went through a lot or having a bad day. but i am happy at the same time. anyone can have an attitude and express their opinions but not black women. well i’m trying to stop drinking soda so pepsi won’t be having my money anymore. i’m going to start living my life the way i want to. you can have a problem with it but i don’t care at this point.
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this commercial is sick
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@ lil’vina:
Excellent video. Thanks.
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@Peanut
Yeah, I agree. It is so blatantly racist. Many people keep saying that the commercial is not racist and that it is funny. Well, if it is not a big deal then why not cast the couple as white? Why cast the angry, jealous, lunatic woman as a black woman when I am certain that the folks who produced this commercial has heard of the negative stereotypes associated with black women? I mean unless you are a 10 year old kid or you have been living under a rock for the past 20 years, it seems highly improbably that you have never heard of the “Angry black women” stereotype. If black women were portrayed in different type of roles on tv, then maybe this commercial wouldn’t be a big deal, but we all know that black women have been portrayed in a negative manner on tv for a long time now.
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you’re welcome abagond. : )
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@ Obsidian:
1. Of all the stereotypes about black people, the Sapphire one seems to me to have the most truth to it. On the other hand, I also understand I have self-serving reasons to believe that since it allows me not to take the anger of black women seriously.
2. This ad was made by a white person. So it seems odd to look to it for insight about black people (as opposed to insight about how whites think about black people). True, sometimes outsiders see things more clearly than insiders, but I doubt this ad was a case of that.
3. At the level of fact, rather than stereotype, black women are three times more likely to be the victim of domestic violence than black men – the same ratio as among whites.
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GoldFire:
I deleted your video. I do not see what it has to do with this thread.
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@ abagond
“GoldFire:
I deleted your video. I do not see what it has to do with this thread.”
To bad. It’s an excellent documentary which speaks to the black experience from slavery on, not to mention the multiple effects of racism on black people world wide. Including, but not limited to, steroetypes and self image.
More to the point, I thought it to be both illuminating and educational. Something I was under the impression you and your readers would be interested in.
I guess I was wrong.
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Like I said when I saw the advert I was just shaking my head. I do not care how many “black women” saw the advert and were not offended by it, I was. Just because you are supposedly are black and don’t feel offended does not mean I am not allowed to be pissed off. I mean with all the crap that is in the media already. If there were enough positive images of Black women in the media would it would be a balanced. However that is not the case. The racism is blatant and anyone who doesn’t see it is foolish is completely deluded.
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Disgusted,
And regarding the comment that the white woman is seen as the dream come true and the black woman would be seen as the exotic fantasy… WTF?…too much time on your hand…an exotic fantasy is a dream come true…Attractive black women dont sweat over white women and how “good” they have it. Know that …Not all of us sit around worrying about white women. I know that I am fine and am told that by white and black men…daily. This conversation gets on my nerves
If you read my comment carefully, you’ll see I never said white women are a dream come true for a black man – just that it was what the commercial wanted audience to think.
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Mel,
I always say there’s a difference btween recognizing race and dwelling on race. It’s one thing when you recognize that I am black, but it’s another if you keep pointing out that I am black.
These cases can be used as good tests for race consciousness.
I agree. Some white people who want to play colour blindness get this all wrong, I think. They will point at someone’s race when is not appropriate, and avoid it when is perfectly ok to do so. For example, whites who think it’s racist and offensive to call someone black (because they don’t notice race!!!), but would always refer to that person as being part of a group “they” (never us!) and “these people…”
If the person’s race/ethnicity is not important to story, then don’t bring it up.
This is important in real life, but also in literature (when you make up stories and choose to describe your characters). Many white writers fail miserably at this.
They all consider white to be default, so if you don’t mention a character’s race, they believe he or she is white. Even some non-whites think this, if the author is white.
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Abagond,
Of all the stereotypes about black people, the Sapphire one seems to me to have the most truth to it. On the other hand, I also understand I have self-serving reasons to believe that since it allows me not to take the anger of black women seriously.
There will always be people who fit stereotypes. Also, maybe some of these stereotypes were forced at you while you were growing up.
Also, you might not have much experience with non-black women to realize it’s not something just black women have. You might not believe in “unattractive black woman” stereotype, since you notice many black women who you find attractive, and those you don’t find attractive are not “black women”, but “women I don’t find attractive”. As for Jezbel stereotype, I guess you’ve met all sorts of people, and I guess many women didn’t fit this stereotype.
But Saphire stereotype is something that requires you to know this person better and judge her whole behavior.
Sorry for getting a bit personal, but as far as I know, you never had a relationship with a white woman – so how would you know whether they are Saphires or not?
I know you are a bit… sexist so to you being a Saphire might be anything, so trust me, “Saphireness” (or just a male view of it) is something that women of all races have (I can speak only of white women, though, but I don’t see why Asian, Native American etc. women wouldn’t have it).
Remember, being a “Saphire” might just be a male view on women who think for themselves. It’s a harmful male interpretation of women.
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Taken from the following article
http://www.ferris.edu/jimcrow/sapphire/
“With people of color, in this case Black women, there is a tendency for labels to become enduring stereotypes. The Sapphire portrayal has been around for as long as Black women have dared critiqued their lives and treatment. Sojourner Truth was seen and treated as a Sapphire, as were Ida Bell Wells-Barnett, Fannie Lou Hamer, Ella Josephine Baker, Shirley Chisholm, Anita Hill, Alice Walker, Rita Dove, and bell hooks. But the Sapphire label has not been restricted to abolitionists, anti-lynching crusaders, civil rights activists, politicians, and Black feminists/womynists. Black women executives who voice disapproval at company policies run the risk of being seen as Sapphires, especially when the policies involve race and race relations. Young African American women who show displeasure at being treated as potential thieves when they shop are treated as Sapphires. The Black woman who expresses bitterness or rage about her mistreatment in intimate relationships is often seen as a Sapphire; indeed, Black women who express any dissatisfaction and displeasure, especially if they express the discontentment with passion, are seen and treated as Sapphires. The Sapphire name is slur, insult, and a label that attempts to silence dissent and critique.”
I find it interesting that this sapphire thing along with other stereotypes seem to have been cultivated by black entertainers. It makes me wonder what the justification for this is? Is it just not taken that seriously?
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Maybe because Sapphire stereotype, unlike others, goes beyond race. It’s about sexism as much as it is about racism. In other words, black men have an interest in keeping it alive.
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I didn’t make myself clear… I don’t think black men are the only ones interested in keeping Sapphire stereotype alive: of course it’s about the way whites see blacks. But I do get the feeling black men, too, have an interest in keeping this stereotype alive, or at least don’t oppose to it as much as they oppose other stereotypes.
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“Maybe because Sapphire stereotype, unlike others, goes beyond race. It’s about sexism as much as it is about racism. In other words, black men have an interest in keeping it alive.” — Mira
EXACTLY!
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@Jeri-
“Yeah, I agree with you. Why do people think that black women are so violently jealous of white women and that somehow is the real reason why we are upset about this commercial. People need to get over themselves. Black women are upset because we are portrayed in the same negative manner over and over and over again. Jealousy has nothing to do with it. We want to be treated with respect. And the media has a way of disrespecting us over and over again. We want to be treated the same way as other people. I would love to see black women portrayed in different ways. I don’t have a problem if a black women portays a bad person from time to time but I would like to see her portrayed in interesting non-stereotypical ways as well. Of course there are mean, maniacal black women who are jealous and cruel but there are many black women who are nothing like this. Television is so boring and it limits and puts black women in a box over and over again. We are do not live in a box and we are not clones with the same personality and intellect. We are human beings and we deserve to be represented in a interesting and intelligent manner.”
I second this! Thank you for writing what I was thinking 😀
I don’t know if this would be off topic or not, but have anyone seen the commerical for State Farm Insurance (seems stereotypical to me as well) My husband and I cringe when seeing it- SMH 2011 still the same old ish!
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I would like to see her portrayed in interesting non-stereotypical ways as well. Of course there are mean, maniacal black women who are jealous and cruel but there are many black women who are nothing like this. Television is so boring and it limits and puts black women in a box over and over again. We are do not live in a box and we are not clones with the same personality and intellect. We are human beings and we deserve to be represented in a interesting and intelligent manner.”
I think that’s a really good summary. it seems like many whites (myself included) have a hard time understanding what this would be like. I think that’s why we are quick to say things like “it’s just a joke don’t be so serious” Because we can afford to just shrug stuff like that off when it’s directed at us. Having that luxury is one thing, rubbing it in the face of someone who does not have that luxury is something else. It needs to be addressed and taken seriously end of discussion.
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The people who made this ad knew exactly what they were doing. First of all, in American media, finding a black couple where the woman isn’t five shades lighter than the male, has thin, nose, lips and caramel colored loosely coiled hair, is like finding a needle in a haystack. Finding a blonde that is being marketed as attractive is the exact opposite. So the creators can’t pull, the “Oh it’s not about race” crap. Ignore til ready to use or ridicule, that’s the American mainstream stance that’s been taken black women for oh so long (of course these days, its necessary to pepper in a few tokens, to avoid litigation or an overall douchey appearance).
The sapphire stereotype pretty much sums up how lowly black women are valued. Its essentially “How dare you be _____”. Fill that in with “angry”, “disgusted”, “blunt”, “disillusioned”, “independent”, “impatient”, “contradicting”. We are not allowed to be human.
@lifelearner
That commercial is just awful. I remember hearing my husband say something to the effect of “Well, you can keep that improvement.” I looked around to see what he was talking about and we both just started cracking up. Seriously these media clowns are so far up their own arses with this “6 ft 100 lb” build that it’s just ridiculous!
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I’m so glad that I don’t watch football. Did they really like that they could make this and not offend people ?! I mean, come on, people were offended by Precious and The Princess and The Frog. It looks stupid and not that funny. They could’ve made a better one without making black folks look bad. My favorite was with Seth McFarlane (the creator of Family doing a Hulu commerical. That was funny.
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@Abagond
Did you just say that the Sapphire stereotype is the most realistic of all the black people stereotypes? Now you shocked me with that one. I thought you were more down- to-earth than that Abagond. I sometimes wonder if people are so laid back about negative stereotypes concerning black women because they are relieved that it is not their group that is being picked on. Are we all living on the schoolyard playground, where everyone is ganging up on the kids who are the most different and most vulnerable? It seems that way to me. And just like the kids in school, it seems some people are relieved that no one is bullying them, so they go out of their way to focus the negative attention on others. Come on, now. I thought we are all adults here, not children. You dissapointed me with that one, Abagond.
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@Lifelearner
I hate that commercial also!!!! I was thinking the same thing you were. This commercial is also racist and presents the negative Sapphire stereotype.
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Mira said:
“Sorry for getting a bit personal, but as far as I know, you never had a relationship with a white woman – so how would you know whether they are Saphires or not? “
Excellent point.
It was Thad, I think, who said that most men tend to think their own women are the hardest to get along with.
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@ Jeri:
I did not say that I thought the stereotype was true, just that it SEEMS truER than the others. I think that is for the reason given in the comment I just made to Mira.
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“so how would you know whether they are Saphires or not? “”
I suppose that is a good point but I have dated lots of white women and a handful of black women and I can say that the WW were no more or less similar to each other than they were to the black women I dated. Nor were the black women any more or less similar to each other than to the WW I dated. They were all for the most part completely different people. Dating one woman of a particular ethnic group is not going to teach you anything valuable about the next one you date from the same ethnic group.
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I don’t remember that comment from Thad, but it could be true (I mean, that men always think their own women are hardest to get along with).
It is also true that women of the opposite group are always seen as loose and oversexed.
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@Abagond
Alot of stereotypes SEEM true. And I guess it would SEEM
true if you see the same thing in the media over and over again. It is called indoctrination. Look, I noticed that this Sapphire stereotype became increasingly popular after the media started referring to black women as “b…’s” and “h…s”. Suddenly we were less human and more a stereotype. In the 70’s, 80’s and early 90’s, the media had alot of highly talented and beautiful women involved in the media such as Maya Angelo, Rosalind Cash, Judy Pace, Irene Cara, Tamara Dobson, etc. During this time, we had intelligent women such as Toni Morrison, Niki Gionvanni, Sonia Sanchez telling our stories and we had beautiful and talented entertainers such as Judith Jameson, Minnie Riperton, Patrice Rushen, and Roberta Flack. We had more power over our image and the period that I mentioned was so inspiring and beautiful. What happened? Our people sold out. That is what happened. Suddenly, we became h….s and n……rs. And we were no longer “young gifted and black”. The hip-hop industry, and the thug culture destroyed what was once a beautiful time. And now we as a people have to reclaim our former heritage by refusing to allow all these negative stereotypes in the media.
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Why is it so hard for people to figure out that every human being is an individual; thus, all human beings should be treated individually?
jas0nburns said:
“I have dated lots of white women and a handful of black women and I can say that the WW were no more or less similar to each other than they were to the black women I dated. Nor were the black women any more or less similar to each other than to the WW I dated. They were all for the most part completely different people. Dating one woman of a particular ethnic group is not going to teach you anything valuable about the next one you date from the same ethnic group.”
Great comment, and very, very true.
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Why is it so hard for people to figure out that every human being is an individual; thus, all human beings should be treated individually?
Because it’s much easier to see members of your own group as “individuals”. But members of another group are always seen as… Well, as a group, or as a few stereotypes. It’s easier that way, especially if you don’t have any contact with the group, or any interest in them as people.
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Obsidian says,
ES,
As you can see in my previous comment, I am making the case that the stereotype comes about and persists in our time, in large part because Black Women themselves want it to. Please review it.
O.
laromana says,
There’s NO EXCUSE for ANTI-BW HATE and BW have the RIGHT to TAKE OFFENSE/DEFEND themselves against it.
When it comes down to it, the MAJOR reason BW are/continue to be demeaned, degraded, and disrespected by EVERYONE in American culture/media is because MOST BM are ANTI-BW. They reinforce the notion that BW are lesser women/unworthy of being loved, cherished, and protected by PUBLICLY TRASHING the HUMANITY, DIGNITY, and FEMININITY of BW/condoning ANTI-BW attackers.
It’s DESPICABLE that MOST BM are ANTI-BW and are contributing to the continued mistreatment of BW. The way MOST BM demean, degrade, and disrespect BW (condone ANTI-BW attackers) has led me to feel that, until they change, they are WORTHLESS to BW and need to be cut out of our lives.
BM MUST take the responsibility of DEFENDING the HUMANITY, DIGNITY, and FEMININITY of BW SERIOUSLY and acknowledge that they owe BW RESPECT since BW gave them LIFE.
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@Mira:
I’m glad to see that you recognize your own prejudice. You weren’t trying to answer for everyone, were you? 😎
Digressing; I asked a rhetorical question, so I don’t expect an answer. I just find it fascinating that people come up with volumes of reasons why they do one thing and not another, etc., ad nauseum, ad infinitum, yadda yadda yadda. I’m glad that I’m not such a limited individual.
To me, it seems that once one moves away from their parental units and formative ‘home stomping grounds’ (especially if they are as intelligent as they claim to be, based on their own inherent base IQs), they would be curious about the big, wide world and want to explore it. Exploration comes from throwing all stereotypes out of the window and entering the world with no expectations save one: LEARNING
Closed minds can’t absorb anything!
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laromana said:
“It’s DESPICABLE that MOST BM are ANTI-BW and are contributing to the continued mistreatment of BW. The way MOST BM demean, degrade, and disrespect BW (condone ANTI-BW attackers) has led me to feel that, until they change, they are WORTHLESS to BW and need to be cut out of our lives.
BM MUST take the responsibility of DEFENDING the HUMANITY, DIGNITY, and FEMININITY of BW SERIOUSLY and acknowledge that they owe BW RESPECT since BW gave them LIFE.”
I say, BIG CO-SIGN to that!! Every time I see that hideous commercial for that disgusting new Martin Lawrence movie, I want to vomit with rage!! :crazy: 😡
When will our darker-skinned brothers and sisters in the movie/music/’entertainment’ industry stand up and say “NO MORE!!!!!” to these degrading, hateful, fallacious stereotypes?
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I’m glad to see that you recognize your own prejudice. You weren’t trying to answer for everyone, were you?
No, actually, I was talking about “everyone”. Not “everyone” as every single person, but “everyone” as people in general. All groups seem to suffer from this. It seems to be easier to see members of your own group as individuals, while members of another group seem “more or less the same”.
Not all people act like this, of course. But it does seem to be common tendency. It’s part of “us” vs “them” dichotomy.
But the problem here is that one group (whites in this case) have much more power and influence than the other groups. I’ve seen blacks stereotype whites (in movies, for example), but nothing they do or say can have such a harmful effect on people, because blacks don’t have as much money and power and media machine as whites have.
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this is anti-black woman racism: http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=anti-black+woman+racism
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Mira–
For the simple reason that only 1% of blacks have IQs over 120.
There are only 1/4 as many Jews as there are blacks, and most of them didn’t arrive in American until a little more than 100 years ago, but Jews are mondo influential and powerful in Hollywood and TV.
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Doug1:
Your statement assumes that America has been racism-free for the past 100 years, among other things.
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@Doug1
If you need high IQs to be influential in Hollywood why don’t we see any Asian Americans in film and TV? Lol Do you use your pseudo-science to explain justify all of the racism w/in this country?
Anyways Jewish Americans reached economic mobility in this country BEFORE they began making educational gains. Blacks were consistently kept out of this nations workforce during the times Jewish and other immigrant groups ascended economically.
Pg. 133-138 is a nice little summary of the early educational history of Jewish Americans.
http://books.google.com/books?id=98r63OBS9KQC&pg=PR9&lpg=PR9&dq=stephen+steinberg+immigration+african+americans&source=bl&ots=-idFp6srh3&sig=mKT7ygI7ClkS9GY-xlWl4ohUZH0&hl=en&ei=HtxfTd7lLdGCtgf2v9zaCw&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=7&ved=0CDwQ6AEwBg#v=onepage&q&f=false
This is a wonderful summary of the economic history of African Americans in this country.
http://newpolitics.mayfirst.org/node/234
I hope you take the time out to read both.
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abagond
Most of the reasons for long lasting white “racism” or poor opinions about blacks is because of continuing vast black under performance in most areas of American life other than certain sports and popular music, over the last 100 years.
Other whites used to be very prejudiced against the Irish. To some extent the Irish changed. Less extreme drunkeness and less drunken brawling, more going to college. And to some extent they simply proved themselves fully competitive. See Thomas Sowell, Immigration and Culture, in his great trilogy on culture.
If blacks did better, racism towards them would largely disappear.
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The stereotype this ad portrays about black women has a great deal of truth to it. Not all black women of course.
Everyone knows this, including black men.
Well everyone except some white SWPL liberals who have hardly ever gotten to know a lot of black women, and when they have a little, only under the most controlled elite college classroom best behavior circumstances.
And yeah I come from and maintain a SWPL background myself, except for the conformist lefty fashionable politics. That I’ve left behind.
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The fact is that left liberal Hollywood and TV portray blacks as performing at much higher elite professional brainiac jobs than is at all representative.
Most doctor shows have some black mondo smart doctor working in an elite hospital unit. In the real world this is very unusual. Most black doctors work in black majority neighborhoods and hospitals, not places like the super elite unit House works at in Princeton for example.
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@Douq1
“The stereotype this ad portrays about black women has a great deal of truth to it. Not all black women of course.”
That’s the thing. The Black woman stereotype w/in this commercial is a significant MINORITY. I can tell you right now that I am amongst Black women WAAAYYY more than you are and this simply does not represent MOST of them. This is why people do not like ads like these. It’s simply wrong to define an entire group by a minority of people.
“Everyone knows this, including black men.”
Yeah, I know these Black men. Most of them are sexist that excuse racism in order to practice their sexism.
@everyone
I would also like to add that their were Black male stereotypes in this commercial. I’ve noticed that a lot of people are bypassing this fact…
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The Cynic–
The ad doesn’t imply that most black women are like this. Most ads which have black women in them don’t show this kind of behavior.
What the ad does imply to a degree is that this isn’t unheard of behavior, exaggerated a bit, in a funny way. It implies that this sort of thing, more or less, does occur to a significant degree.
It’s much remarked on within the black community how often black women get bent out of shape when “some of the best” black men go after white girls, for one thing.
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The Cynic–
In the period between WWI and WWII 2nd generation Jews turned the public CCNY college in NYC into a very high intellectual institution.
It utterly collapsed from that position as more and more Jews got into and got scholarships to the Ivy league and similar level elite institutions, as the older quota system was done away with, and as blacks replaced them as the majority of the student body.
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*s blacks replaced them as the majority of the student body at CCNY.
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The black woman depicted in this ad is very real and her existence is a point of pride for many black women. I have heard countless black women boast about their “take no mess” attitude. Everyone has heard this. Those whites who are unable or unwiiling to acknowledge her existence have not spent enough time around black women outside of the corporate or college environment. The truth hurts.
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f aka ano aka atticus is banned as a sock puppet.
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@f
It is usually the people who make these broad generalizations about an entire group of people who have the real problem. Like Cynic mentioned earlier, people use racism and sexism to carry out their own form of abuse. And they use stereotypes to cover up the real truth. Most of the men who say they know so much about black women and say that we are no good are usually bitter men who have a desperate need for revenge. I am sure that the men who loved this commercial liked it so much because it takes the spotlight off themselves. People should examine themselves and look in the mirror before they pass jugdement. Imagine if I saw a commercial about black men and later said that “the truth hurts”. Clearly, I would be full of bs and I am using the commercial as an opportunity to hurt black men, even those who have done nothing to me. You don’t know me and I have done nothing to hurt you, yet you say that I am an “angry” black woman. Now tell me something, who has the real problem? You or me.
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LOL at doug comparing black experience to irish.
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@the Cynic
“Yeah, I know these Black men. Most of them are sexist that excuse racism in order to practice their sexism.”
What you just said is brilliant!!! That is exactly what is going on!!!!
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@Doug1
-“In the period between WWI and WWII…”
Did you even bother reading my link? Those dates DO NOT contradict my point.
-“The ad doesn’t imply that most black women are like this. Most ads which have black women in them don’t show this kind of behavior.”
When the media repeatedly tells one story and treats a group of millions of ppl as if they are a monolith, then they are collectively implying that stereotype fits the majority.
If media honestly wanted to objectively represent a population, stereotypes like this would be featured only a minority of the time.
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I noticed that Doug never answered the question about why Asians with their superior IQ’s aren’t influential in TV and Hollywood. Some folks jump on here with “evidence” showing why Blacks are in subordinate positions to Whites, Jews, Asians, etc., but can never provide any reasons why the oft sited minorities that are more intelligent, hardworking, etc. than Blacks and even Whites are *still* subordinate to Whites.
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I may be wrong, but do some people think that even some black men perpetuate the sapphire stereotype as an excuse for dating white women?
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I just want to say something. There are moments when I have made assumptions about black women, especially young black women, before talking to them. I will admit that I have been brainwashed at times myself. And Abagond, maybe you were just being honest when you said that it seemed true that black women were like the Sapphire stereotype. But understand something. If am about the town and I see black women, walking down the street, in their cars, shopping etc, and I assume that these women all have attitude problems before I have met them, then who has the real problem? We often blame people for OUR assumptions about them. I don’t think that people who believe these stereotypes about black women, even know alot of black women. They may have had a few bad experiences and based on those experiences, they go around making assumptions about the other black women they see. And often because they make these assumptions, they don’t form relationships with other black women, hence becoming more and more ignorant about the majority of black women. It is not my fault because you look at me and assume things about me before getting to know me.
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saadiyah
The only group of Asians with higher IQs on average than whites are NE Asians. SE Asians and Indians as a whole have lover IQs, and lower caste Indians much lower IQs. The Asian indians that we’ve let into the US so far, heavily doctors and software engineers, do tend to have higher average IQs but there aren’t that many of them.
NE Asians have only slightly higher IQs that whites or Euros, and it’s all on the math/visiospatial side. They’re not generally better at managing people and so on, or social skills, which is what is heavily involved in Hollywood and TV.
The group that really dominates Hollywood and TV behind the camera in a networking kind of way are Jews, yes with some other whites mixed in.
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@Calculator
Yeah, alot of people, both men and women, when they have a fascination with interracial relationships, to an extreme extent, they use negative stereotypes to justify their fascination. They will say “all black women have attitudes” and “black men are deadbeats” just because they want to marry a non-black person. It makes me wonder why they want to be with that non-black person in the first place. Do they feel that black people are inferior to whites? I mean, if you were to meet an extremely nice white person who was good to you and you just happen to fall in love, not because of his/her race, but in spite of it, you wouldn’t feel the need to dog black people. Often times these people say that it was the person they fell in love with, not his/her skin color, but if that was true, why spend so much time dogging black people just because you are now with a white person. It doesn’t make sense. Like I have mentioned before, alot of people have a tendency to be immature about interracial relationships. They have an unnecessary need to rub their preferences in other people’s face.
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@Abagond
Yeah, alot of times people make ignorant assumptions about people. But racism, even if it exist within yourself, is something you have to fight against. I am sure many people, even many black people, find themselves believeing stereotypes about black people, but you have to fight the racist tendencies that might exist within your own heart. It is not always easy, but it is extremely important that people do it. Otherwise, how are we different from the white racist who purposely practice racism to get what they want. It is a personal struggle. One many of us have to make.
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I thought the commercial was kind of funny. The Black woman was apologetic after hitting the other woman, it was the husband who pulled her away. I think both women were attractive, though not especially. Honestly though I wonder if some of those upset by it would still be offended if the cast was all-Black. You’d stlll get the Sapphire stereotype and it would reinforce stereotypes held about Black women and their character.
I agree that Black women in general have been quick to embrace the Sapphire. I’m sure it’s for feminists reasons but it’s problematic when these sorts of things pop up, and whether innocent or not, carry unfortunate implications.
I only wish Black people were as critical of these stereotypes when other Black people perpetuate them, but I guess the audience isn’t big enough to care.
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not because of his/her race, but in spite of it
How about neither? You meet a great person who happens to be a of a race different than your own.
Intra-racial relationships are more common because of various factors, but they are not more “natural” way to go.
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@ Calculator
Yes I think that some people do use stereotypes to justify doing things they wanted to do anyway. Black men are not unique in this. Amy Chua had a lot of good things to say about Chinese mothers and not so much great to say about Chinese fathers (not surprisingly she married a man that wasn’t Chinese). You can find sites all over the place by people that dog out their own same race/opposite gender counterpart-every day, all day.
What tends to get overlooked in these sorts of discussions that whether it’s by desire, inertia or resignation, most American married people marry someone from their own racial/ethnic group.
So these stereotypes about various groups-the undesirability of black women/the hyper femininity of white women/the submissiveness of Asian women/etc.. all tend to be used to privilege “whiteness” in the American context.
Also I think it’s part of human nature to assume that the grass is always greener on the other side of the fence.
Interestingly enough a great many of the more negative stereotypes about black women (attitudinal, materialistic, bossy) are also shared by Jewish women. Go figure. FWIW I have known some very unpleasant Black women who fit some stereotypes perfectly but I can say the same about some extremely aggressive, bossy and downright nasty white women. People are people.
Ultimately I think people should marry who they want for whatever reason they want. If their reasons are “wrong” by my standards so be it. I’m not the one who’s in that relationship.
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As for the stereotypes about black men, I don’t know much about them (stereotypes), so I can’t judge. The way it was presented in the commercial, I felt sorry for the guy. He seemed confused and unable to fight for himself. All he wants is a woman who won’t abuse him physically and mentally. <- that's the vibe I'm getting from the commercial.
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Excuse my language, but WTF!! Why are we Black women the only bitches in the world and white women are always the princesses?!
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@Mr Fox
Look, black women I am sure would still be upset if the entire cast was black. What difference does it make? I can’t read your mind or anything, but what exactly are you insinuating. Are you saying that because there was an attractive blond in the commercial, black women became offended? Look, I think most black women could care less about the blond. Really. It is the truth. They are upset because of the negative stereotypes associated with the commercial. That is pretty much the reason. Nothing else. We are tired of seeing the same negative images of black women. I mean, look, after working hard all day long, black women just like everybody else, want to relax and watch an entertaining show on tv. But instead of being entertained, they are constantly bombarded with negative images of themselves. That is nerve racking to say the least. Who wouldn’t be upset? So lets not turn this into a “black women upset about white women” thing because we have seen these same negative characters in all black shows and it is still upseting to watch. In fact, most of the all-black shows have these stereotypes in them. It doesn’t make a difference. Nerve racking is nerve racking no matter who is involved.
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@Shady Grady
You know, it is amazing how I find myself agreeing with you, but you are right. People should marry people for whatever reason they want to. It is just irritating when once they do it, they decide to hate on black people or people of the opposite sex within their own race. That is what I was talking about. Not just simply the fact that they married someone for the right or wrong reason. People should marry who they want but don’t get on my nerves after the fact. That is all I am saying.
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@Shady Grady
Pushing negative stereotypes for ANY reason, whether it is because of fascination with other races or revenge, is wrong. It is a form of abuse and that is the bottom line.
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@Mira
When I said “in spite of”, that is what I meant. You meet a great person and you fall in love with them. When I was in college, oh about 15 years ago, ( I am sure now you can calculate my age). I met a wonderful young man who was white. We became the best of friends and to this day, I can say I still love him. He was just a great guy. Well, I really wasn’t paying alot of attention to his skin color. It was his personality and compassion that I like the most. So it wasn’t his color but his love that I liked. And understand, I have dated other white men before. In fact the first guy I ever dated was white. But I didn’t spend anytime dogging black men while I was dating non-black men. I just like men. Look, I think people are missing the point I am making. I don’t have a problem with interracial dating. In fact, I am glad that people can marry whoever they want for whatever reason they want. But what I don’t like is when you start harrassing people within your race of the opposite sex because you are in such a relationship. Why can’t you just be happy that you found a wonderful man/woman and have peace with that. Why should you start attacking me when you should be grateful that you have been blessed to find someone who loves you. All I am saying is that, don’t mess with my situation because you have someone. Your preference for someone of another race shouldn’t cause you to hate me. What do I have to do with it. People who act this way are immature. That is all I am saying.
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@Shady Grady and Mira
Once again, I find the negative stereotypes in the media to be highly offensive. Just because you like someone who is white with straight hair, doesn’t give you the right to present black women( or men for that matter) in the media as these evil people who do nothing but make their partner’s lives miserable. And THAT is exactly why black women are upset. There are millions of black women who have stayed by their men, through thick and thin, when these men had NO ONE ELSE. And this is the thanks we get!!! I KNOW I have had my man’s back when he was all alone and he had mine!!! So what is up with all this negativity? !! If you have an opinion that is negative against black women, then no problem. But don’t harrass all black women on a constant basis through the media and the internet. That is wrong. And I am sure no one wants to be treated like that. Not even you two!!!
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Jeri,
I agree with what you say. I just thought (and I might be interpreting this in the wrong way, be it because of the language barrier or because I didn’t understand what you were trying to say), I just thought “in spite of” meant that white guy’s skin colour was the problem, but people should be able to see past that.
So I said: I think it’s wrong to date someone because of his race, but dating them in spite of their race doesn’t sound great either.
But perhaps I didn’t understand your words correctly.
In any case, I agree with what you said in your last comment.
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Jeri,
When did I express any of those things, namely, the negativity towards the black women?!?
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@Jeri I am not sure what I wrote that you are taking issue with. As I stated, I did not like the ad. The ad was not created by a black man. In different ways it was insulting to black men as well as black women.
That said, as mentioned there are some people of every race (a small minority of course but still vocal) who have consistently negative and quite ugly things to say about the opposite gender of their own race. Some of these people are even black women.
My take is that these people are wrong but if they really prefer a different race partner for whatever reason they should get one, if they can. Chances are good they won’t be happy otherwise. In any even it’s not my concern. We agree on that I think.
Stereotypes are wrong but it’s the rare person indeed who is totally free of any stereotypical thinking.
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@Shady Grady
Yes, there are many ethnic groups, not just blacks, who have this tension between the sexes. I remember I was reading comments on this Indian website. And there were alot of women complaining against Indian men.( This is not an attack on Indian men. I like them also). For the most part, the women complaining were Indian women. And yes, I am sure there are white men who have problems with white women at times. But the problem we black women have, is that the media is being used as a weapon when it comes to these struggles between the sexes in the black community. I don’t see white men dogging white women all the time on tv, despite the fact that whites divorce each other at a rate of 50%. Most ethnic groups have tensions between the sexes. But the attack against black women in the media has been extreme to say the least. And I don’t believe it is because of the behavior of most black women. I believe it is because we are both black AND female. There are whites who use these negative stereotypes for their own racist purposes (usually to cause friction between black men and women) and there are sexist black men who use these stereotypes to control and get revenge against black women. If white men or women have friction between each other, there are not alot of people who would advocate displaying this friction on the media for the whole world to see. I mean, the battle between white men and women is on tv from time to time, but the negative stereotypes are not there for the most part. So black women have a battle on their hands. The best way for black women to fight this battle is to use their economic power. And I hope that is what they will do.
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@Mira
You know what. You didn’t mention anything negative against black women! No I just decided to discuss my feelings against using the media to promote negative stereotypes because of people’s obsession with interracial relationships. No, I was saying that it isn’t right to use the media as a weapon and I decided to discuss this with you and Shady at the same time. You didn’t say anything offensive. I was just stating this opinion to both of you at the same time. I just came on strong in that comment because I was upset with those who use the media in a horrible way. I am tired and I am not sure what I am saying. I don’t think I understood what you were saying in one of your comments. But no, you didn’t mention anything negative against black women.
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Did Doug1 really try to say that NE Asians are socially inept, which is why (despite their “proven higher IQ”) they aren’t good at directing people? It’s almost as if he forgot (chose to ignore) that booming NE Asian television stations exist in every country of theirs, that have programming which is on par with anything whites can do. The same goes with movies.
Yet another Doug1 case of purposefully cherry picking at certain aspects of reality to try to create a point…
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Jeri,
I wasn’t singling out Black women as being offended by thus, nor was I implying that the blonde as temptress was the major issue either. My point was that many Black men and women have no problem watching these stereotypes unfold when there’s an all-Black cast, even though they are still pernicious. I wish I could believe that most Black people who enjoy seeing these kind of tv shows and movies are being colorblind, but that is not usually the case. Black men see the Sapphire and nod their heads because they’ve known a few. Black women see the Sapphire and are quick to take her side and defend her because they see something defiant or empowering about her. The Sapphire is not that different from the Feminazi in that regard, except one has color and the other doesn’t.
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@ Doug1:
“NE Asians have only slightly higher IQs that whites or Euros, and it’s all on the math/visiospatial side. They’re not generally better at managing people and so on, or social skills, which is what is heavily involved in Hollywood and TV.”
Erm… so is there a gene for social skills and people management which white folks have and Asians don’t?
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I’m still shaking my head at those who view this video is some sort of viable and credible evidence to how black women are in reality. It tells me that people will use television as a reliable source of information regarding black people.
Plus, they will jump right on anything, and I mean anything that’s negative regarding certain people to satisfy their limited view of the world beyond their “wholesome white minds”.
Lastly, to say how this 30-second commercial about a soft drink proves stereotypes proves one’s own ignorance and how they truly value reality, research, and truth.
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Jeri,
I understand. And I agree.
I just came on strong in that comment because I was upset with those who use the media in a horrible way.
And rightfully so! It’s really sad to see the ways black women are portrayed, and not just that, but the fact people actually believe in those harmful stereotypes about black women.
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Erm… so is there a gene for social skills and people management which white folks have and Asians don’t?
Yes. This along with whites having bigger genitals! They are just right! Not too big, not too small, not too smart, not too dumb! I, for example, have the gene for bs, it’s inherent I tell you, just ask Bugs Bunny!
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Wow I was shocked the first time I saw this commercial. Are we really slipping back to this??? I mean really??? Just because we have a blk president who has a blk wife does not make it okay to make fun of blk people.
I swear some of these images of blk people being produced today are like str8 out of 1950. We have options as a people now. I really don’t get how blk actors and actresses can make these kinds of commercials!!! Where is the dignity and racial pride knowing what we’ve been through in this country. If I had my way, both of the blk actors would be shamed and treated as outcasts in the blk community.
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peanut the black woman would have been prettier if she wasn’t scowling the whole time and they bothered to give her a decent wig.
I think that wig played a part in the blk woman’s image too. Maybe it’s me, but in most commercials now, blk women have natural hair and when they don’t, it’s a blk woman with an obvious weave or bag wig whose a big mouthy or “sassy”*. The lady in the pepsi commercial was the extreme. The car insurance commercial looks like it was a test run for this commercial.
* For more on this type of thinking, see Americans Apparels’ brief on what types of blk women they don’t want working in their stores.
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I didn’t know she was wearing a wig.
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Yea mira it’s very obvious. Just look at how her hair is missing a part and it’s very unatural looking.
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Hi Jeri,
Replies below:
J: @Obsidian
How you would like it if the commercial was about a black man who was in prison but broke out because he badly needed a Pepsi? Once again, JasONburn made a good point. Black men are often seen as violent thugs on tv. But are all black men violent thugs? No obviously. Some black men might fit that stereotype but most don’t. Well, I wouldn’t be surprised if some black women fit the angry, lunatic stereotype but many black women are nothing like this. Sigh. With black men like you on our side, who needs white racist. Look, the next commercial could be racist against black men and you wouldn’t like it if some foolish black women were happy about the commercial like you clearly are about this Pepsi commercial. We as a people need to unite against racism, not laugh at each others misfortune.
O: Where was it suggested that I was “laughing” at Black Women? Please point it out to me? In my actual comment, I mean, quote it back to me, and NOT what YOU think I said. I want you to actually back up what you said with actual language, written in my own hand, that says what you assert. Unless you can do that, please sit down. Menfolk are talking.
Secondarily, I couldn’t possibly care less what ads Pepsi runs. I drink Coke.
Next question?
O.
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Well, I don’t know, SW6, I thought black woman was depicted as evil. Very mean, to say the least. I mean, putting soap in his mouth. I do realize it’s occurring theme in the US (well, at least in media, putting soap in someone’s mouth as a disciplinary measure I mean), but to me, it’s just… Horrible beyond words.
So if she wasn’t “evil” evil, she was depicted as a very mean person.
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chic noir says,
Wow I was shocked the first time I saw this commercial. Are we really slipping back to this??? I mean really??? Just because we have a blk president who has a blk wife does not make it okay to make fun of blk people.
I swear some of these images of blk people being produced today are like str8 out of 1950. We have options as a people now. I really don’t get how blk actors and actresses can make these kinds of commercials!!! Where is the dignity and racial pride knowing what we’ve been through in this country. If I had my way, both of the blk actors would be shamed and treated as outcasts in the blk community
laromana says,
chicnoir, you are dead on. Black actors and actresses who agree to be a part of RACIST/ANTI-BLACK ads are enablers and another huge part of this problem.
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@ chic noir and laromana
That’s what I was wondering earlier when I asked if this kind of thing just isn’t taken very seriously among BP generally. Without willing black actors none of this stuff could exist. And it’s not as if black actors who portray stereotypical characters are ostracized or anything. I assume the feeling is that just having blacks working in Hollywood is worth it.
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mochasister says,
Excuse my language, but WTF!! Why are we Black women the only bitches in the world and white women are always the princesses?!
Jeri says,
@Mr Fox
Look, black women I am sure would still be upset if the entire cast was black. What difference does it make? I can’t read your mind or anything, but what exactly are you insinuating. Are you saying that because there was an attractive blond in the commercial, black women became offended? Look, I think most black women could care less about the blond. Really. It is the truth. They are upset because of the negative stereotypes associated with the commercial. That is pretty much the reason. Nothing else. We are tired of seeing the same negative images of black women. I mean, look, after working hard all day long, black women just like everybody else, want to relax and watch an entertaining show on tv. But instead of being entertained, they are constantly bombarded with negative images of themselves. That is nerve racking to say the least. Who wouldn’t be upset? So lets not turn this into a “black women upset about white women” thing because we have seen these same negative characters in all black shows and it is still upseting to watch. In fact, most of the all-black shows have these stereotypes in them. It doesn’t make a difference. Nerve racking is nerve racking no matter who is involved.
laromana says,
mochasister and Jeri,
Thanks for reminding ANTI-BW HATERS that BW are NORMAL, HUMAN WOMAN who DESERVE to have our HUMANITY, DIGNITY, and FEMININITY RESPECTED/NOT TRASHED.
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To Obsidian:
Black men are often seen as violent thugs on tv.
How often…? Much more often I see White men portrayed as muggers, rapists, murderers, etc.. I know about the Wire and Cops but aside from those shows I have not seen many depictions of Black males as thugs in drama, comedy, or movies. Given that it’s true that I don’t watch, what shows are you talking about may I ask..?
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Mira said,
“Also, I agree with jas0nburns: the commercial with whites (and black girl in the park) wouldn’t be the same, because of different race dynamics. The black girl wouldn’t be seen as a dream come true, but as an exotic fantasy. Also, I’ve noticed they try to avoid showing white on black violence in media.”
Isn’t it viewed as an exotic fantasy if a white man is looking at a black, asian, or latina(in other words non-anglo or nordic white)?
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Why did the black actress take the role. Is it the white people making us look bad or is it the black woman that took the part. if it was angela bassett she would have said no to that crap.
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[…] saw the video above on Abagond. In Abagond’s post, he writes about stereotypes of the angry Black woman–what he calls the Sapphire […]
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Some 20 years ago I might have seen this as funny. Now it really seems to stregthen negative sterotypes. The way the black woman behaves is just domestic violence. Angry BW indeed! Who the hell in their right mind would want to be in reltionhip like that? And I uppose that black dude is a treotype af a cheating black man. I mean come on, if his spouse beats him up just eating wrong kind of food, you’d think a guy would have a little more self preservation instinct than openly flirt with a strange WHITE woman infront of you spouse. Rather disrispectful.
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I did not appreciate that commercial at all. It was very disrespectful for Pepsi to display such blatant negative stereotypes like this. For some people it was just “entertainment” but we are already stereotyped and disrespected on a daily basis in society, Pepsi did not have to go there, but hey , they’re just showing their true colors. Black women and men are constantly attacked, degraded, and stereotyped for the masses in some form. I am really tired of feeling like I must defend my dignity against this kind of stuff. There are many Americans who are just plain stupid. They don’t think for themselves and believe everything presented to them through the media. This commercial will just “reaffirm” what many already think about us. I guess I won’t be drinking Pepsi anymore and I’ll also be boycotting PepsiCo products as well.
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This was a well written article. Thank you.
Also, I read some of the previous comments (not all), and it seems there is much concentration on what “white” people think. Considering the global influence and societal control of white supremacy, this I understand. However, we are now living in a small world with the age of technology and racial migration. It’s not just white people who may be feeding off these negative stereotypes about black people. Asians, non-black Hispanics/Latinos, Indians and other non-black groups who are also buying into it and presently viewing/treating black people accordingly with discrimination.
Abagond, you did a great job of highlighting the several stereotypes and their dynamics. Yet, there is another stereotype, or “signal” that is being illustrated in my opinion. The black man’s routine unfaithfulness and hyper-sexual prowling. As well as the careless and uncontrollable open lust for white women, and even when he knows the danger of blatantly doing so could bring him a violent situation (but in this case his wife and the can). This goes back in racial history and Jim Crow.
As for someone’s remark about the black woman also being attractive, that was not the point of the powers that be. The purpose of the exercise was to present the black woman as overall unattractive in the viewers mind, be it physical and/or by attitude, and the white female is meant to be the opposite in that regards as well.
Yup, there was no coincidence in the casting of this commercial, LOL. Sick.
Thanks for allowing me to share….
-La
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The blonde in the commercial makes it that more offensive because of what she signifies: feminine beauty in opposition to black women. Its as if the white man who created this commercial is saying now here is an attractive woman who is kind and sweet. Who else would he conjure up but the thin, blue-eyed blonde. Not a brunette, not a redhead, and definitely not a black woman. If the woman on the bench was black it would still be offensive, though a little less so.
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I find this advert rude and stereotypical. are these types of adverts portraying a saphire streotype common in the U.S? I have never seen an advert like this in the U.K
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I dont find this commercial racist, but Im not a black woman or an american livin in the US. If this is the only way or mainly the way black women are showen in media and commercials, I agree it can be racist. I agree with Mira that the angry woman Sapphire type goes behind race. I may miss the racist aspect since im not american. A simular commercial to this could been produced in norway for the norwegian market, then most sertant with a angry white wife, since its not many black wifes in norway. She most likely be significant less hot than the girl getting the can in her head. People would still think it was funny, and some feminist oranisations may think it was sexist and stupid.
My girlfriend are Tanzanian, so I watch a lot of Tanzanian and some Nigerian movies. The angry, jealous and manbeating Sapphire almost allways have a central role in thouse movies.
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Asian Kung Fu Sapphire
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So glad i hate sports and never watch the superbowl because all it seems like from year to year is to see who can make the most racist commercial about blacks.
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a vicious cycle, black women are treated badly which makes us angry, rather than fix the problem black men and whites decide to stereotype us as angry black women which just makes us angrier.
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I’d be lying if i said this commerical was not damaging to the psyches of both black men and women….
However, i would also be a hypocrite to not ask the question as to why black people continue to take roles as actors in these types of portrayals? Is making a little bit of money that important?????
I mean you get the script before you begin shooting and even if you don’t i’m sure the storyline is explained to you and you are well aware of your role.
Other than that, i think lots of people, both black and white want to believe the storyline of this commerical. We can be so stupid at times, that we fail to realize as black folk that this or other commericals with similar themes is not about us. It is about the subconscious fear that white males have as it relates to the attraction that supposedly a high number of black males have for white females.
It is also about “chastising” white females about “falling” for black men. “You will always get hurt or what’s coming to you which includes him ultimately running off with his own kind so it is not worth it”. Yup.. .this has nothing to do with REAL and everyday black men and women at all. This stuff is the brainchild of white middle class American men. It is in their mind, but unfortunatly you have SAMBO black fools co-signing and singing praises for it.
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[…] focused so much on the negative stereotypes about Black women and why we had commercials like the Pepsi Max commercial airing during the Superbowl. I wanted to know WHY some Black men on YouTube would make such hateful […]
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[…] Pepsi Max: Love Hurts […]
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