In part one I listed things that white commenters commonly say, like “My family never owned slaves” or “Blacks are racist too!” Here we look instead at the way many white commenters seem to think and react. Not all of the following are necessarily racist but they do show a white gaze or bias:
1. White self-interest: They see things from the point of view of what affects whites, what they stand to gain or lose.
For example, when talking about affirmative action they quickly point out how whites will be put out of work or not get into to a good university. It may all be perfectly true, but note the point of view.
Or take crime. If a commenter shifts the argument from, say, drugs and murder to Dangerous Black Rapists, he is probably white. Dangerous Black Rapists on the loose are rare but speak to white fears and insecurities. Meanwhile in most black neighbourhoods troubled by crime it is almost never because of Dangerous Black Rapists. Way more common are robberies, drugs, shootings, prostitution and bad policing.
2. White pride: When you say something bad about whites they get upset and, if they can get past that, defend whites.
They make it about their hurt feelings. Or belittle your feelings and observations. Or say you hate whites and blame everything on them. Or they do not like the way you put things. Etc.
When they defend whites it is mostly to clear them of moral blame – shifting blame onto ghetto mentalities, Arab traders, diseases, “the times”, “what is natural”, “what anyone would do”, etc. Strangely, they have a hard time admitting that whites are part good and part evil like everyone else, that they have screwed up big time – repeatedly – and continue to do so.
3. White experience: The experience they apply to comments never goes beyond that of most white people.
It seems they were never called racist names, stopped by the police for no good reason, followed in a shop, stereotyped and so on.
Or: When others report such experiences they belittle it. Sometimes they do that by saying they had the same experience – not to show support but to tear it down!
Or: They think the world is some huge meritocracy, that all laws are applied fairly, etc. They have never witnessed the profound injustice that lies at the heart of American society – or of any other society, for that matter.
In short, they have never had the experience of being at the wrong end of things when it comes to white people.
In most cases that is because they are white themselves! Or, worst of all, think they are honorary whites.
4. White concerns: They never take black concerns seriously because, well, they do not have to!
This is probably the most damning sign of all. They come on here and act like this is some big game where they score points, where they “win” – as if that is what matters most.
See also:
“How to tell if a commenter is white…”
Or half white.
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It may speak to the enormous guilt that’s probably inbred in their psyches. Deep down they truly know that it all is just so wrong, but they simply don’t want to share in the struggle to right it. They are invested in the perks.
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LOL at that picture.
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Interesting post.
I must say I have come across these things many times online during the course of visiting a number of blogs. I must say it’s hardly surprising.
Telling you to “just get over it” is another good one.
You are commenting about what hurts you as a person or the injustices and unfair experiences you have had, and someone comes on to brush your statements aside and tells you to just get over it, which is kind of annoying, but not surprising in the least.
I suppose if you are black, you can’t have feelings like everyone else. *sarcasm*
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I didn’t even need to read past the first few comments on part I of How to Tell if a Commentor is white to see many of the EXACT characteristics of white commentors surface. In defending themselves, they said exactly the things that your post said they would do… then went on to say how your post was to broadbased, stereotypical, racist, etc etc…
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Leaving aside the issue that people generally do not like to be criticised…
I think you have summed up exactly what happens on this blog in a very accurate way.
What I would say there is one ‘variable’ you may have missed, pertaining to this blog and that is using education and/or ‘status’ as a ‘get out clause’ to change the definition of terms, and so to absolve ‘Whites’
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I think Anna Renee might be right: guilt definitely has something to do with it. They see something bad is going on, but admitting whites have something to do with it, they blame it all on blacks. And not even on blacks as individuals, but black people as a whole.
On the other hand, it’s not that simple. It IS true that most of the people care only about the things that affect them, or their group. Which brings us to another problem: why do whites see any problems affecting blacks as something that doesn’t affect them? Why are they incapable of seeing blacks as “one of their own”?
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What I would say there is one ‘variable’ you may have missed, pertaining to this blog and that is using education and/or ‘status’ as a ‘get out clause’ to change the definition of terms, and so to absolve ‘Whites’
True, using education and “status”, as you called it, is also a thing whites often use on blogs concerning race.
… which doesn’t think it’s bad to re-think what certain terms really mean and remind ourselves race is, after all, a social construct and not a biological fact, etc etc.
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Mira,
However, there is an unwillingness to see or understand that ‘biology’ is also a construct just like ‘race’, and also language (ie terms) are constructs too.
Its when the ‘biology’ and the language cannot be seen as a ‘construct’ but ‘race’ is then there are problems.
Since what you see is that ‘constructs’ are NOT
being used consistently but rather to defend what Abagond calls ‘White self interest’
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“3. White experience: The experience they apply to comments never goes beyond that of most white people.
It seems they were never called racist names, stopped by the police for no good reason, followed in a shop, stereotyped and so on.
Or: When others report such experiences they belittle it. Sometimes they do that by saying they had the same experience – not to show support but to tear it down!
Or: They think the world is some huge meritocracy, that all laws are applied fairly, etc. They have never witnessed the profound injustice that lies at the heart of American society – or of any other society, for that matter.
In short, they have never had the experience of being at the wrong end of things when it comes to white people.
In most cases that is because they are white themselves! Or, worst of all, think they are honorary whites.”
I hope this last line isn’t referring to me. I wouldn’t say I’ve had the white experience, but rather the multiracial experience. I really think that’s made my analyses more nuanced. There are two sides to every story and these problems can’t be resolved without and understanding of both.
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I was just on this forum and I couldn’t respond to anything because it was so disgusting. They posted this video of some black preacher talking about blacks being racist and said he was right. It wasn’t that that got me because it is true, it was when they started saying blacks need to stop living in poverty and popping out kids in the ghettos and move on. They all went on these long rants that blacks are the racists ones and should stop being ghetto and realize they themselves are the reason they aren’t living very well. One even said that blacks live worse now than they did in the 40s and 50s! I can’t believe people believe this crap. Most blacks are not ghetto! The number of middle class blacks have risen exceptionally in the last few decades.
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Sorry FG,
With regard to:
“There are two sides to every story and these problems can’t be resolved without and understanding of both”.
Its a bit more than this. In a situation of ‘equals’ acting accordingly. Then I would concur with you
However, when you have ‘victim’ and ‘oppressor’ then understanding both is ‘unhelpful’. Since the history book reveals time and time again, when you do this. You see the victims always ‘short-changed’.
Perhaps one of the best current examples, is what is taking place in Palestine.
So I think you have provided us with another type of reaction.
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@ FG – you said, “I hope this last line isn’t referring to me. I wouldn’t say I’ve had the white experience, but rather the multiracial experience. I really think that’s made my analyses more nuanced. There are two sides to every story and these problems can’t be resolved without and understanding of both.”
Your response was based on the following comment:
3. White experience: The experience they apply to comments never goes beyond that of most white people.
It seems they were never called racist names, stopped by the police for no good reason, followed in a shop, stereotyped and so on.
Or: When others report such experiences they belittle it. Sometimes they do that by saying they had the same experience – not to show support but to tear it down!
Or: They think the world is some huge meritocracy, that all laws are applied fairly, etc. They have never witnessed the profound injustice that lies at the heart of American society – or of any other society, for that matter.
In short, they have never had the experience of being at the wrong end of things when it comes to white people.
In most cases that is because they are white themselves! Or, worst of all, think they are honorary whites.”
I’m with you in a sense FG. I’ve added comments on some other threads (maybe earlier in this very one) about experiencing these same things. However, my not being able to get into a cab, not allowed entry into certain areas or building, being followed around in stores, denied service, etc…. Was all due to the fact i was a U.S. Soldier stationed in Germany. It didn’t matter if you were White or Black or Latino or whatever – many of the Germans (not all) would treat you this way if they could tell you were a G.I. – regardless.
Any military brothers around want to back up this claim lest someone think I’m full of it ? ? ?
– – I also got this during my ‘non-white’ years in the South; however, to a very much lesser degree. There it was mostly ‘eyes following’ me suspiciously. Never any “real” incidents like in Germany.
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Yes, it’s happened time and time again. It’s as if these folks are saying, “Look. It happens to us as well. So if we can get over it then you should, too.”
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“- – I also got this during my ‘non-white’ years in the South; however, to a very much lesser degree. There it was mostly ‘eyes following’ me …”
Now that’s the multiracial experience.
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Spot on again, Abagond.
Wow…fifteen posts in and the draptos haven’t swarmed!
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Blacks are racist too!”
One of their favourite clarion calls!
I have always wondered why they resort to that phrase. Instead they should be asking why they are being accused of racism. The fact that they get defensive tells me that they are indeed racist. It’s like you accused them of being thieves or some other sort of deviant deviant. It’s sort of comical when you tell them why! Their reaction runs the gamut from cussing, actually calling you a racist name, or blubbering!
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With regard to my own commenst
“However, there is an unwillingness to see or understand that ‘biology’ is also a construct just like ‘race’, and also language (ie terms) are constructs too.
Its when the ‘biology’ and the language cannot be seen as a ‘construct’ but ‘race’ is then there are problems.
Since what you see is that ‘constructs’ are NOT
being used consistently but rather to defend what [is referred] to by Abagond [as] ‘White self interest’ ”
One of the major factors that those when it is touted there is no such thing as ‘race’ is what if any, was the impact of ‘culture’ (ie socio-politics)??
http://www.historycooperative.org/cgi-bin/justtop.cgi?act=justtop&url=http://www.historycooperative.org/journals/jah/87.1/br_102.html
http://www.jstor.org/pss/2645897
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I’ve been thinking about this post all day, in light of the Oscar Grant thing and a book I’m reading about privilege and oppression. This has just been on my mind. And I’ve concluded that racism has been just as harmful to the souls of white people as it has to the souls of their victims.
There’s something I’ve been tiptoeing around, something my brother almost said last week when we were talking but he caught himself just in time. Don’t want to be too offensive, but I’m just gonna say it. They are missing something. There is a coldness in that race. Not in every individual, no, but those who are able to feel the warmth of empathy and kindness have to work really hard to get there, because everything about the culture beats it out of them.
They’re like a race of depressed people, that’s what I realized. Depressed emotions, only flaring up in anger from time to time but when it does wooo it’s scary. They try to be channel that anger in the approved situations, such as with a gun and a badge. We blacks are too passionate, too “animalistic”, too “irrational” for them. They claim we are too sensitive but they are the ones who react so defensively at every perceived prick. I look at some of the white defenders who comment on this blog and they seem off their rocker to me.
No, they’re not really cold and dead, they just can’t allow themselves to go where they need to go and to feel what they need to feel, and they deflect that any way they can. They must stay separate from us physically, mentally, and emotionally, they must exist in a permanent state of segregation in every way in order to maintain the facade that everything’s okay. They cannot allow themselves to feel anything for us, because if they do then the whole dam will break.
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There are some who would suggest what happened is the process started ‘internally’ against the(ir own) poorer classes, women, Irish, (if you are utilising the English) and then projected ‘externally’, on to the rest of the world.
So the question and I think Danila brother was trying to work this out. Is what was is it that brought about this process ‘internally’?
There are quite a few different theories that attempts to shed light on this.
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J,
On a similar note, I think looking at things from an “educational” standpoint lets people talk about negative impacts without having to own them. For example, some people focus so much on the “resumes with ‘Black’ names are half as likely to get a callback than resumes with ‘White names'” without ever thinking about the real people behind those numbers. We aren’t talking about abstract lab experiments, we’re talking about people running businesses all over the country!
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J, that’s a good question. What are some of those theories? Racism is such a recent phenomenon when you look at the scope of human existence. Oppression and suffering aren’t new, but this worldwide devaluing of brown folk based on skin color is only a couple centuries old. How did whites in America go from seeing Africans as basically like them except with the wrong religions (but redeemable) to seeing them as subhuman savages fit to be enslaved, raped, beaten, torn from family, etc.?
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Yeah Jasmin, as much as I love the research and the studies, retreating to the academic is often a tool of oppression. Certainly these studies don’t convince white people to change, and for people of color they only confirm what we already know. I’m not saying there is no value in that, but the momentary shock that white people experience when they learn of one of these studies is QUICKLY destroyed by the defensiveness.
Sometimes I just want to shake some of these commenters. I want to make them look me in the eye and really TALK to me for goodness sakes. If they get mad, fine they get mad. If they want to cry, let’s cry together. But they need to stop these separating tactics, stop trying to keep us at arms length.
They will do anything they can not to see us. I’d rather have them in my face then not even seeing that I am there.
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Hang on…let’s look at things a bit critically here…every point you’ve given strikes me as a typically human response to criticism. First get defensive, then deny, then point out that the accuser is guilty of the same offence… Isn’t it??
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Color O’ Luv: You can opt out of the military, you can’t opt out of your skin colour. When you’ve got military bases all over the world, the power dynamic shifts, and the Germans who treat you that way may see it as a subtle rejection of authority over them – after all, who wants a bunch of Americans with guns walking down their street.
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How to tell I’m a white guy? Well, I say it. I don’t pretend to be anything else and don’t try to speak “ebonics”. That would be a)insulting and b) extremely hilarious.
Ok, I’m a finn and sort of outside of this American black/white experience, so I can only speak from my own perspective. When I was living in the states years ago I had local friends, some whites, some black and couple of native american indians. And yeah, it was pretty weird to realize that they were not together outside, say, the local gym. In there everybody was ok and talkin and so on, but outside: black dudes went this way, white that way and the natives over there.
When I was hanging out with black friends, the white guys gave me a strange looks. When I was with my white friends, the black guys looked like “ok, now he’s with his Own” and they were surprised when I greeted and talked to them, even though my white friends were there. Now, when I was hangin out with the native indian friend, both blacks and whites looked at me like I had three heads. Maybe I had, I don’t know. I did not think much of it at the time.
My problem was that if you are my friend, you are. That’s it. I did not get that american racial thing. I met some good guys and became friends with them. I was not aware that I was supposed to stay with my Own folks. I could not understand that there are differences which excludes others. For me, we are all different, so I did not “read” the differences as marks of race. I saw them as part of my friends individual personality. And I met some royal a-hole whites and blacks overe there, but did not read that trough the race either. To me they were just a-holes, regardless of their skin color.
Comment on the Whites being cold: If we look at the history, and I mean from the days of the romans, what comes out, I think, is the ablity and willingness of so-called whites to wage wars. Ok, we can argue back and forth if war is natural for a mankind etc., but just from the historical perspective: I think it was the romans who invented the consept of total destruction. They wiped out the dacians, totally. No trace of that nation exists. They almost wiped out the gauls. From those days on, if and when so-called whites have gone to war, there is no restrain. Look at the Bosnian war, whites vs. whites. Nazi Germany. Stalins Soviet Union. Millions were killed just like that. No problem. And they were killing their “Own”.
Ok, in Maos China, Pol Pots Cambodhia, and Ruanda, I get it… There has been others too. Granted.
I don’t know what is it. Is in our culture? Is there a hidden culture of violence which demonstartes itself usually in byrocratic measures, law enforcement etc.? I have no idea. Maybe somebody else does.
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Danila,
The racism as a global phenomenon that we know now is a recent phenomenon. However, this does not mean that there has not been discrimination/racism based on the colour of ones skin in the past.
In the thread ‘Is Africa Backward’. I have given historical examples that we know off.
With regard to theories and ideas
1. Neeley Fuller’s UICCS
2. Frances Cress Welsing -“Cress Theory on Color Confrontation”
3. Cheik Anta Diop – Two cradle theory as it relates to culture,
4. Michael Bradley – Iceman Inheritance
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With regard to:
“Hang on…let’s look at things a bit critically here…every point you’ve given strikes me as a typically human response to criticism. First get defensive, then deny, then point out that the accuser is guilty of the same offence… Isn’t it??”
The aforesaid is very true…
but it is also equally a ‘human response’ to the discussion of ‘racism’ with regard to the ‘discriminat-ED’ and the ‘discriminat-OR’ (especially on this blog)
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Titan said:
“Hang on…let’s look at things a bit critically here…every point you’ve given strikes me as a typically human response to criticism. First get defensive, then deny, then point out that the accuser is guilty of the same offence… Isn’t it??”
Everything on the list is “natural” once you buy the idea that Genetically Pure Europeans are the centre of the universe, matter more than everyone else and are Basically Good.
As to defensiveness whites take it to a whole other level. It is not the ordinary defensiveness that everyone has to protect their own sense of pride, their own ego. It goes way beyond that. It is like they took a course in it or something. Their answers are too artful, too quick and too much the same. It is part of how they get through life – and why those studies, as Danila noted, never sink in.
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Truly an entertaining read. I cannot really understand the reasoning behind the post, but I nevertheless found the read to be a good read.
White commenters probably read 1/2 of the stuff and think to themselves that Oscar Grant was the older brother of Hugh Grant and great nephew of Cary Grant or some ish.
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When you say something bad about whites they get upset and, if they can get past that, defend whites.
Try stating that Lady Gaga is an inbred and watch all the “new readers” that you will have to contend with afterward.
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@Abagond
Everything on the list is “natural” once you buy the idea that Genetically Pure Europeans are the centre of the universe, matter more than everyone else and are Basically Good.
lol! (or not)
It is true whites do often see themselves as the centre of the universe. Most of them don’t want to admit it to anybody including themselves. But it’s there.
There are egoistic black people, of course, but I can’t help thinking it’s more on the individual side. If nothing else, all non-whites are aware of the others and don’t seem to have the “centre of the universe” vibe.
So their excuses, defensiveness, etc. is different and doesn’t have the same “we’re superior” vibe.
@Don
Try stating that Lady Gaga is an inbred and watch all the “new readers” that you will have to contend with afterward.
Inbred?!?
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“Everything on the list is “natural” once you buy the idea that Genetically Pure Europeans are the centre of the universe, matter more than everyone else and are Basically Good. “
I think it goes a little deeper than that- it’s a matter of fortress mentality.
White europeans essentially dominated the world for a time with colonialism. One major outcome of colonialism was the USA, which grew into the premier superpower.
In the face of eroding colonial-style dominance (that is, emancipation, nationalism amongst native peoples, S. and E. Asian immigrants [‘coolies’], etc.), a bizarre paranoia seems to have occurred in white identity. The sense of superiority remained, but more and more non-white people had access to opportunity, which was perceived as a serious threat- that opportunity for nonwhites would spell the elimination of privilege for whites.
So we had Jim Crow, KKK, Chinese Exclusion Act, manifest destiny, immigrant quotas (for non-europeans!), etc. in order to preserve white privilege in the name of “heritage”. Eventually much of these grotesque phenomena were reduced or eliminated, but the fear remains; not exactly out of guilt, but out of indoctrination that the White Christian America, by virtue of superpowerhood, is superior by Divine Mandate and must be preserved *or else*. This is why I think so many white Americans lost their damn minds after 9/11. The idea that they’re divinely protected and above attack or censure is intolerable.
[Also, one way to tell if a commenter is white: they mispell “mama” as “momma”.]
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@ Dylan H.
You said, “and the Germans who treat you that way may see it as a subtle rejection of authority over them – after all, who wants a bunch of Americans with guns walking down their street.
That is actually TOO FUNNY. Maybe you’re very young or maybe you have strong anti-war feelings. (So do I by the way) Take a moment to actually process what I have to say please. You may actually gain some insight from a real Veteran who isn’t here to troll or blow smoke up anyone’s arse. (spelled that way on purpose)
No Americans walk around with guns in the street in Germany. We put on Civilian clothes and pursue our interests just as anybody else would with a standard 9-5 job. The base helps stimulate the local economy by providing Civilian jobs to many Germans. We spend our paychecks in the local communities. We drive cars, we rent cars, we go on ski trips, we sight see, we take trips to other parts of Europe, we take place in the same day to day life as any other Germans in the same community in which we ALL LIVE: we ARE a part of the community. — We even have Multi-Racial and diverse American families from all over the America: Fathers, sons, mothers, daughters going to “American schools” in Germany or opting to go to German schools – or – a combination thereof. Many children that are a product of these communities often learn to speak German and grow up in a much more tolerant society (within the American community inside Germany) than they do here in the U.S. Perhaps because everything is seen as a much more diverse and level playing field within said community. (Perhaps Abagond could do a post on “military communities and diversity”. It is a heck of a lot different than how most people in general perceive “American Society today.” and there sure as hell is a lot less prejudice -from everyone. Think about it, some of my best friends – my brothers – the ones who “got my back” when it counts came from all over: Some were from the Cabrini-Green projects in Chicago, some from some remote small town in the mountains of Puerto Rico, others San Juan, some were from all white communities in Montana, others from L.A, the Bronx – you name it. I even served with some Native Americans.
Back to your point which you obviously “CAN NEVER” understand, —-or—– CAN YOU???? (I hope so) We didn’t carry guns around the streets in Germany dressed in military uniforms. We ate at fine restaurants or street vendor carts, attended festivals -and for the most part, got along with everyone; However, those moments I mentioned above about the prejudice and ignorance I experienced: They DID HAPPEN. The best times I had in Germany were when “they didn’t happen”. Thankfully, this was most of the time. Most enjoyable was when I was in small towns away from major military bases. The small town wine festivals were my favorite. (Yes, the Rhine Valley is renowned for its German wine. – not beer!!!)
As my fellow poster would say,
C H E E R S
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Sorry – Not sure why everything came out ‘italicized’. My personal comments start on the line that says, “That is actually too funny.” Everything prior to that is a quote.
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Hmm, that’s interesting..I lived in Germany for two years after University, I thought Americans were pretty well liked. then again Bavaria was cool like that, I think there is a military base outside of Munich, could be wrong. If anything Turks were widely disliked. Not to belittle your experience, you were not a visible minority. American privilege, white privilege, and that extended to Poles, and other Eastern Europeans, altogether a different kinda experience that the Roma Gypsies, Africans, Turks etc went through, who were also contributing members of German society!
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Color:
I fixed the italics. Your closing tag was wrong. See my Commenting page for what it should look like:
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Also, the general “America belongs to me” (and not “your” people) is a common white attitude.
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@ Abagond – Thanks, I appreciate it…
@ MerriMay
I agree. Germany is great and my favorite area is Bavaria. The culture is much more friendly and open. Nurnberg is a great place, but I find where you have a greater military influence, the more likely to encounter the negative experiences I mentioned above.
Ah yes, “The Turks”. Ironic!!! Back in the day ( I was in Germany roughly between 1991-1993) it seems we were always having run-ins with the Turks – probably becuase most ‘G.I’s’ couldn’t get into decent German clubs, much like the Turks, so we frequented similar ‘hang outs’. If an altercation broke out, Bam – Turks & the G.I,’s. (This is probably more exagerated than not.) After so much time in Germany however, I ‘learned’ to dress “German/European”. After getting into some clubs in Heidelberg (major university area) I was able to convince the bouncers to let a “few” of my friends in. (Always with the promise of ‘NO STARTING FIGHTS’!!! a la the druken obnoxious soldier stereotype that always is looking for women or a fight.) – gee, wonder what ever started that stereotype? It was these same stereotypes that caused me to not receive service, be refused, followed in stores, miss taxis late at night, etc… Granted, this was primarily near the MANNHEIM and FRANKFURT areas. Somewhat in NURNBERG.
I always enjoyed going out with my Caribbean/Latino fellow soldiers to some of the more “ethnic” clubs. There you find a lot of African influence and Latin American music tossed in with Calypso, Reggae. There for a time, that is where we would go. Sadly, upon find out we were G.I,’s, most of the girls and others wanted nothing to dow with us. (Unless I happened upon Brazilians – then it was like taking a long drink of water after travelling across the Sahara. Just good conversation. ‘Bate papo’.)
Ok – sorry MerriMay: I’m on a tangent strolling down memory lane. I have lots of stories best served up over a cold beer at a pub with whoever has the patience to listen.
-Cheers,
p.s.
Love the German food and festivities… (Learned to ski in Garmisch & Berchtesgaden by the way. Beautiful countryside.)
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FG,
“I wouldn’t say I’ve had the white experience, but rather the multiracial experience.”
Hmmm…but on that “other” blog you said that you are white.
So which are you? White or “honorary white”? Just to clarify.
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(Put in a *close italics* tag in case that helps)
What J said. I think all people get defensive sometimes when criticised as part of a group, even when it’s something that’s true for some of us.
Yeah, it’s a WP thing to say to cite “not caring” about skin color and it’s not always true either,, but it sucks just as much to be stereotyped as a white person or PoC, as part of an amorphous group who all think or act the same instead of individuals, though PoC have been on the short end of the stereotyping for a lot longer than we have.
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abagond:
“Everything on the list is “natural” once you buy the idea that Genetically Pure Europeans are the centre of the universe, matter more than everyone else and are Basically Good.”
Mira:
“lol! (or not)
It is true whites do often see themselves as the centre of the universe. Most of them don’t want to admit it to anybody including themselves. But it’s there.”
They don’t need to admit it. It’s obvious.
See Christy’s comment from the “Why do the Japanese…” post:
“Makes sense, but I don’t see why everyone whines about white being a ‘default’. Something has to be the default, that’s how people’s brains work. Nobody wants to see the sign on the ladies’ room and think “Wow, I wonder if it’s white or black”. White IS the default for a lot of people.”
It never occurs to her that maybe non-whites do not see white as the default. Just maybe they see others as the default or maybe they don’t view everything in terms of ethnicity or race. Nope, she assumes that most people think whites are “normal human being.”
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@ Natasha W.
I concur about Christy’s comment.
Ewwwwwwww….
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Michael Bradley – Iceman Inheritance
ROFL! I knew it! I knew it!!!
Didn’t I say that it was only a matter of time before someone started applying that recently discovered information about neanderthals interbreeding with cro-magnos in Europe in a racist fashion in order to claim that today’s Europeans are somehow “special”?
Well, damned if Mikey hasn’t gone and done just that! 😀
And damned if it isn’t our board’s loyal racialist and crypto-fascist J who hasn’t pointed this guy out as some sort of relevant thinker.
Quaquaquaquaquaquaquaquaquaquaquaqua!
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Oh, and I gotta say, J, I just LOVE Michael’s constant rants about “Jewish propaganda” and “Jewish conspiracies”!
Such a wonderfully refreshing afrocentric take this man has on the world. Antisemitisim. Now THERE’S a new and original African philosophy for you!
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@Abagond & J,
Well this is a topic on which I will have to defer to you both and anyone else on here who seems to have a clue what they’re talking about.
Like I think I’ve mentioned before, I have worked with white folk, studied with them and lived with them but do not have them as friends. At all.
And fortunately or unfortunately (I have often wondered whether this has anything to do with the typically British attitude of avoiding confrontation except when they’re completely bladdered or are completely illiterate and living from week to week on the flipping giro (which I pay for but have no recourse to) the only two people who have DARED tell me that they feel they are better than me simply because they are British have immediately backed down and looked away sheepishly once I was done with them in a single sentence.
Or maybe I’m just abrasive like that!!! 🙂
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@Natasha W,
Someone actually said that? I’m in shock…
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Thad,
Have you ever considered leaving teaching? Your lack of reasoning and this time research skill is absolutely poor….
1. Iceman Inheritance
Trust you to do some research and come up with the wrong book.
Here is the book
2. Leaving aside that you chose the book. I would like to draw your attention that the aforesaid book 1991
His second book 2001, – the one you refer to
and finally
3. The theory that Neanderthals genes is also in a small percentage of humans, is a story that broke out in 2010.
Would you like to explain, how these words of yours can be possible:
“Didn’t I say that it was only a matter of time before someone started applying that recently discovered information about neanderthals interbreeding with cro-magnos in Europe in a racist fashion in order to claim that today’s Europeans are somehow “special”?
How could Bradley writing in 2001, and that is when he mentions Neanderthals have utilised evidence in 2010, and publish a book in 2001??
“A fool who recognises his own ignorance is thereby in fact a wise man, but a fool who considers himself wise — that is what one really calls a fool”. – Buddha
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Thanks Titan, but I am not going to let you get away so easily he he he. Is there anything else you still might wish to say, with regard to your initial comment…before I rudely interjected??
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That’s the book alright, J.
Have you even bothered to take a look at the author’s website…?
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The interesting thing is that this book apparently came out originally in 1978.
Look here:
Now here’s Bradley’s whacko website, complete with his views on how this new DNA info re: neanderthals supports his thesis:
http://michaelbradley.info/
Note the wierdo, nazi-like anti-semite banner he has running along these pages, as well as the little Roman fasci.
Here’s a direct quote from this great so-called “afro-centrist” and anti-racist:
It is time for the non-Semitic peoples of the world to come together in a multi-racial alliance under one banner in order to severely limit Semitic activities before they put an end to us and everything else on the planet. I offer the following banner, emblem and symbol. However, I will warn everyone that it may well be too late.
And the banner? It is for the New Alliance to Assert Ante-Semitic [sic] Social Organizations.
I rest my case.
J, if you are such an anti-racist, how is it that you keep directing us to these crypto-fascist and national socialist websites as great informational “sources”?
I mean, this is the SECOND time now. First we’re supposed to believe that the highly racist and openly fascist Metapedia is a good source on information about race. Now you’re telling us that the openly anti-semitic Michael Bradley – who, AFAIK, has no bonafides regarding race outside the white supremacist community – is amust-read afrocentric author.
My question, J, is this: are you REALLY that naive that you’re constantly reading nazis and thinking that they are afrocentrists?
Or are you playing some other game with us here?
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Thad,
I am not an ‘anti racist’, utilising your definition of what that term means.
I am not even sure you are aware of the term
However, what I can say about myself is that I am definitely against ‘wolfs-in sheeping clothing’ White racists like yourself.
I hope this has made MY position clear, and NOT what you are able to understand by YOUR eccentric way of using logic
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@Natasha W
See Christy’s comment from the “Why do the Japanese…” post:
“Makes sense, but I don’t see why everyone whines about white being a ‘default’. Something has to be the default, that’s how people’s brains work. Nobody wants to see the sign on the ladies’ room and think “Wow, I wonder if it’s white or black”. White IS the default for a lot of people.”
I guess she didn’t get the memo that, let me see… Non-white people make majority of world population?
At least she admits white is seen as default. Most of the whites see white as a default, and neutral, but they don’t understand they’re doing it.
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However, what I can say about myself is that I am definitely against ‘wolfs-in sheeping clothing’ White racists like yourself.
J, I’m REAL clear about who and what I am and I make that very plain: I am not a racist, nor am I a whiten supremacist. Like all white people, I have some racist attitudes because I grew up in a racist society, but I do my best to root them out.
But you, J… I wonder how well your “up, up mighty race” rhetoric would go over if people knew what’s really behind it all? Because it’s become increasingly clear over time, J, that you are a fascist. You are so well wrapped in that philosophy that you think that self-declared anti-semites like Bradley, who decorate their webpages with swastikas and fasci, are your allies. You don’t even blink when you link us to sites like Metapedia, claiming that they are wonderful sources for information on race – this when Metapedia has quotes by nazi eugenicists on its front page.
Freind, you are whistling past the devil if you think I and my point of view are some great threat to black people but that openly declared nazis, fascists and white supremacists are black peoples natural allies. You think I’m a problem, but the people who you think are your “allies” see you as a convenient little tool. Do you REALLY think a man like Bradley gives a flying f*** about black people – a white anti-semite and appologist for national socialism, who’s written a book claiming that white people are a special branch of the human race?
You’re a tool, J. The only question which remains is whether or not you are aware that you are being used.
Because the more I read your “facts” and links, the more I come to the conclusion that you are a fascist J, straight up. I used to think that it was because of your Garveyite leanings and I believed that it was probably due to the fact that you hadn’t really investigated the philosophical roots of Garvey’s views.
Now, however, I’m of the opinion that you have been a fascist for quite some time and consciously so.
My only question now is what a self-proclaimed black fascist is doing on an anti-racist website.
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Thad,
With regard to this board and what has been said here.
I would say you are a racist.
If no,
Then why did you direct a racial insult of ‘black ass’ and Japs here, even when it was pointed out to you.
In the former instance you used medieval history to cover your deception. In the latter it is the shortening of the term.
Again,
Why do you have problem with Whitesd who fight against your own ‘White Privelege’ as in the Jensen post
As for fascism, you have to look no further than your White european counterparts and you can study its history and its effects in killing thousands
Personally, what I said about you, your White identity, choice of partner and so and so forth, is as I see you here. Nothing you say will make me change that.
And in fact I think your silence reveals much, and possibly shows my reasoning is correct.
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Oh my dodgy keyboards once agin..what waas Thadweere suggesting about spellling
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And now can we allow Abagond forum to run accordingly…Not as YOU intend but rather the owner’s.
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Have any of you see Denise around? She was supposed to fix my Gordon Gartrelle shirt.
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I am not white, but these points were very stupid. Come better and more insightful than that.
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abagond, you say that whites only say things that have to do with whites, like their looking through a white persons eyes. well, they are. everyone can only look at things from their own perspectives. people try to understand one another by relating it to their iwn experiences. all races\ human beings do so. have you ever thought about WHY a white person would even take the ime to visit thisa site? not counting the white pride supremists who come here to troll and hat monger, the whites, including myself, who vist this site from time to time probly do it to gain some understanding from people. im not black. ive never been, nor will i ever be. i dont know your experiences. one thing i do know is that you are right about most white people. most w. ppl have views and misconceptions about blacks that make me wonder if they even know any black ppl. most whites judge blacks based on witnessing ‘ghetto’ behavior, and assume all blacks act this way, or kill eacher, etc. its like the cosby quote that makes the point that if a white man falls out a chair drunk, its one man. if a black man falls drunk, its the whole race. most whites, even the liberal ones, dont care about black people. and those who care still dont really understand. whether whites or blacxks want to admit it, there ARE two americas. but , as a white person, i come to this site to learn, or express a thought, etc. i guess what im saying is, i can only see through my eyes. id like to able to share my life with everyone around me, black, white, etc. but im in a world of ignorant tribesman who cling to hatred and separation. in the ‘white’ world, im uncomfortable with the opinions and perceptions white have about blacks, and in the ‘black’ world, im an invader, always tryin to steal someones girl and white her up, or white wash their music. im not allowed to belong. not that i would want to. im a nindividual, not a white person who wants to be black. i think we need more individuals.
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Me said:
“abagond, you say that whites only say things that have to do with whites, like their looking through a white persons eyes. well, they are. everyone can only look at things from their own perspectives. people try to understand one another by relating it to their iwn experiences. all races\ human beings do so. “
I agree, but the thing is many White Americans do not understand this. Because the mainstream American culture shares their point of view they do not see it as a point of view but simply “being objective”, “seeing things as they are”. They do not understand how their race shapes how they see the world.
Many whites think they can rise above their race and culture and see things from a neutral, universal point of view. Which is extremely odd because some of these very same people will tell me that whites in the past, like Lincoln or Jefferson, much greater men than they, could not do it. Well, why would the present be any different than the past?
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You accurately, eloquently, and reasonably try to understand your own experience, and I’ve learned from it.
Some of your commenters comically fail to understand a lot of “white” experience, though, in my opinion.
A few points where I’d agree:
1. The depth of white racism. Yes, it’s deep.
2. White guilt and deflection and projection upon black folks.
I don’t agree:
1. That you (or anyone) can possibly speak monolithically for all blacks (or any group). You can take your understanding for the limits of the world, but when speaking for your own group or people, you will fail to understand all of their experience.
2. That whites portray themselves as basically “good” or as a monolithic whole. Probably much like me, you know your family and loved ones pretty well, have some close friends and then a ring of colleagues, acquaintances, and others. We know very little…
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And, of course you try and see things from a universal and neutral point of view, your mind starting doing that from birth. You probably wouldn’t understand very much if anything otherwise…
Now as to most of our beliefs, opinions, and guiding ideas…they don’t hold up very well upon reflection…which is why I visit this blog.
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It amuses me when white people pretending to be “black” on this blog get found out. I wonder if people know I’m Asian. 😛
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