Keeping this blog has blown my mind. White people say stuff here that they would never say offline in my hearing.
I knew white Americans were racist – living in so-called liberal New York left no doubt in my mind about that – but I had no idea how deep their racism ran.
I used to think they just did not know any better, that they were brainwashed by a culture founded way back by slave owners; that if they woke up and saw the truth they would change.
If only.
I know that the whites who comment on this blog are not the ordinary sort. For example, most of them are race conscious for one reason or another: they are white nationalists, they live in a place where most people are black, they have black people in their family or are even married to a black person and have black children.
But that is just it: leaving aside the white nationalists as being too far gone, they if anyone should know better and yet they do not. Whites who married black or who live in black neighbourhoods do not have the excuse that most whites do: a lack of solid, first-hand knowledge of black people. And yet they are still racist, just with fewer stereotypes.
So then I saw that racism is rooted not in a lack of facts or in bad ideas, as I thought, but in their sense of self-worth.
The truth will not set them free because they are not interested in the truth. They are interested in maintaining their sad, two-bit sense of self-worth, which is partly built on feeling that they are better than black people – and anyone else who is “different”. It is like at the end of “The Bluest Eye”.
Also: They know perfectly well that blacks are getting screwed for no good reason – they have seen the ghettos, they know the numbers – but to avoid a sense of guilt they have to believe that blacks truly are just that screwed up all on their own.
They think like wife beaters:
- making themselves feel good by putting down others,
- avoiding blame for their own actions,
- listening only to their own sad, half-baked lies.
If you point out how off-base they are, they just call you names or think of a thousand and one reasons why you are wrong. Anything but taking a cold, hard, honest look at themselves. Because deep down they know the truth but are afraid to face it.
This sick, insecure frame of mind of white people seems to come from slave days when they had a relationship with black people that was nakedly abusive. They would do themselves and everyone else a world of good if they took the road to health: make right their wrongs and then base their self-worth on something good and true.
Not that I am holding my breath or anything.
See also:
AMAZING post. I don’t have anything intelligent to add but just, *thank you* Abagond for being a voice of balance and truth. I’m not one of those conspiracy-theory black nationalists, but I’ve pretty much come to the same conclusions about white people’s general thought processes. Given the amount of crap black people put up with from whites, it’s amazing the amount of self-blame we still tolerate and the amount of delusional thinking that propagates all around. I’m not saying we don’t have any control over our lives because obviously we do or else there would be no black middle class (however tenuous its current economic state), but we have to be honest about the roots of our society and the current situation as a whole. Much of this delusional thinking is rooted in The Mighty (White Male) Individual myth but the tide is beginning to turn with scholars and commentators like Malcolm Gladwell and the Project on Law and Mind Sciences at Harvard Law. However, looking at the broad cultural landscape, including self-produced media like Youtube and blogs, the amount of attention people pay to the broad racial picture and the amount of time and energy people spend on minutia and diversions is still woefully lopsided.
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What you learned from your blog, is the very thing I learned from my white ex-best friend. (female)
It wasn’t until we became extremely close that she felt secure enough to say many things which have been repeated on this blog. Always with an expectation that I would quietly, gently and patiently ‘prove’ to her why I wasn’t that particualar black stereotype.
It took well over a year for her to get round to say things like:
‘Africans are aggressive, they talk at you’.
when reminding her that I was African, she would then keep quiet.
She would constantly state how she never had a racist bone in her body. But always described black people by stereotype.
She would trot out old stereotypes so casually.. at first I thought she was just being inquisitve, or winding me up [which is a very unique British thing, they say things to make you angry and then laugh and say…. haha I was only winding you up (trying to make you mad) why are you so sensitive?]
My extensive vocabulary was a problem, one which she swore she will rid me of.
I read extensively and she would band it about with pride… ‘hey here’s my black friend who reads books by authors I can’t pronounce, has an encylopedic knowledge of all types of music, is not homophobic, speaks French (I’m still learning but that didn’t stop her pretending I was fluent).
Look at her, my little black toy, my personal accessory. (gosh I’m soo embarrassed to have been in this position)
My lack of materialism was a problem, my mild flirting was too sexual, the fact that I can swim, dear lord! that was too much.
She ventured to presume about the type of sex I had.It had to be aggressive, bordering on animalistic, because black guys are not gentle, they are animalistic in the bed room
It took almost 18months before she felt comfortable enough to DEMAND quite publicly, multiple times, that I wear my hair in a 1970’s style afro. … .
It took 18months for her to start calling me aggressive, especially when other white women would insult me and I would defend myself my being dismissive of them
If I was quiet I had attitude, if I was exhausted, my face was filled with attitude.
If I was ill, I was taking up hospital beds from people who might need them (a charge usually levelled at immigrants)
All black women were aggressive, just filled with attitude unless they were mixed race or Lauryn Hill.
She argued with me on what constituted an afro. (apparently, a short afro is not an afro because white people don’t call it that, it’s just short hair, an Afro is big and shaped like a microphone… you know like the jackson’s had in the 70’s)
She actually said to me: ‘just because you are black it doesn’t mean that you know more about black hair than I do’. yeah.. this from the woman who was shocked that I wash my hair
Nothing she did was ever her fault or based on prejudice.
Rather it was because she was:
‘- a little upset
– had hearmerroids,
– had done a line of coke,
– was drunk,
– was tired,
– didn’t know better,
– was ignorant
– grew up in a town with only 1 black family
– was really grateful that I was her friend and soo patient with her’
Yes. She ACTUALLY used all of those excuses.
What kept us being friends? That had something to do with me. I couldn’t accept that I had made the most fatal error a black person could ever make. I had somehow become friends with a racist.
Yes her feelings weren’t my fault, neither was her lack of education.
However, all the warnings and guidance I received as a child should have shielded me from this.
This has not made me hate white people.
It has simply made me wake the heck up and put those guards back in place. They protected me before, they will never be removed again.
I will continue to converse, associate, dine and interact with white people, but I will never again, engage in any deeply emotional relationship with them.
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I agree, this post is right on target. I’ve long since concluded that white peoples’ collective sense of self-worth rests squarely on their belief in their superiority over everyone else on earth. Even when they’re blatently confronted with evidence to the contrary, they usually misinterpret what they’re seeing and act out on their stereotypical beliefs anyway.
They particularly refuse to fathom that a non-white person can be as or more intelligent than they. If they are caught off guard with such a scenario, they become almost confrontational trying to figure out how that person knows what they know.
It’s ridiculous and it’s infuriating, to have to live with this type of nonsense, and although they deny it, it affects brown peoples’ lives immensely.
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This has not made me hate white people.
It has simply made me wake the heck up and put those guards back in place. They protected me before, they will never be removed again.
I will continue to converse, associate, dine and interact with white people, but I will never again, engage in any deeply emotional relationship with them.
soul,
Exactly!
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love this post
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Right on target. Was talking about this very thing yesterday.
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Great posts, LaSmartOne, soul, and evd. As an AW, I’m also aware of the differences between Blacks, Whites, Asians, etc. And I’m on here as I feel the need to enlighten myself and to earnestly understand the black experience.
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@evd..true.
@leigh204..
May I ask why you want to understand ‘the black experience’? (I’m curious)
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i learned from the white commentors throughout the whole blog, just how much they love and depend on racism.
i am believe america doesn’t want to get away from their racist past, as racism is still socially acceptable today and most whites condone it!!…
this country was founded on racism and hate, and will probably fall because of racism and hate…
it was obvious to me that most of them were racist because even after reading the blog, they showed absolutely no comprehension or understanding of the posts. instead they derailed and tried to make themselves the victims…
of course i have some opinions on some of the black commentors throughout this blog too…but that is for another time and another post.
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you finally get it. white people need to hate black people in order to feel good about themselves thats why they will never change. they hate what they see in the mirror and love what they see when they look at black people. bottom line: jealosy and envy. just that simple.
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I don’t think I learnt anything from white people on this blog. In all honesty.
Maybe my experiences with white people have been relatively good compared to the non-whites on this blog.
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@soul:
Where I come from, I’m a visible minority, and it’s changing for the better. I have experienced my fair share of racism throughout my life not only from whites, but even Asians. My experiences may not have been as outright racist as a black person, but that I can relate to a certain extent. I hope that answers your question. 🙂
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has anyone been referred to as “being so white,” in terms of demeanor by white people, even if you’re visibly black. I have had white males and white females call me “white girl in black girls body” etc. simply because i don’t act in a stereotypical way that in their minds bw are supposed to act. i’ve always been offended by that. its like if you act like you have common sense and can finish a sentence without using profanity, then you must be “acting white,” you’re not “really,” black because black folks don’t act like that. i’ve gotten that more from white folks than black folks. people always say black people tell other black people they’re “acting white,” not the case with me i’ve gotten it more from white people.
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@leigh204,
do forgive me for being presumptuous, from your picture I presumed that yes you would have experienced more than your fair share of racism and I’m sure we have similar experience
I was just curious if you were interested in ‘the black experience’ simply in correlation to your own, or maybe from an academic point of view or something else.
that was all.
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@peanut.
Yes. And it is absolutely not a compliment. Because what they are really saying is that all black people are supposed to act like this. You are soo different you are like us because you show these positive outlook.
It is the most insulting thing a white person can say to me, and everytime they say this I let them absolutely know instantly that it is a stupid thing to say and how offensive it is.
I read a lot, I remember being in Paris reading War and Peace and this Jewish American dude was soo fascinated he couldn’t help but to approach me and state that he had never seen a black young girl reading war and peace.
Well guess what dude? I’ve never seen a Jewish American soo shocked at a black girl reading a book. He had never read the book, but that didn’t stop him for going googoo over the fact that I was reading it.
I used to get soo embarassed I used to cover up by book titles on the train. Now I just don’t care anymore.
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soul:
Well, there were certain situations I’ve experienced that I can really identify/empathize with Black people…so, yes, my trying to understand ‘the black experience’ would definitely correlate with my own.
Another thing, when my folks first immigrated, the very first person who welcomed them was this wonderful black woman. She became one of my mom’s good friends and have been friends until this very day. This woman, whom I refer to as ‘tita’ (auntie) always talked about her awful racist experiences. And though I was young, I couldn’t understand how could anyone do wrong to such an incredible person. Soul, in all sincerity, I just want to learn what I can do to offset the racism prevalent in our society.
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@leigh204,
I just want to be very clear, that I wasn’t challenging you. Just really interested in the why’s and stuff.
‘Why’ is a question I ask a lot. I like to know where people are coming from rather than presume.
I’m sure many of our experiences correlate, I’d bet a double chocolate fudge cake on that. (sure bet)
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@soul:
Oh, I didn’t take that from your post at all. I only wanted to clarify, well, as best as I could, regarding why I’m very keen on obtaining some insight on ‘the black experience’. Btw, I love double chocolate fudge cake. 🙂
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There is a lot of ignorance which breeds fear.
I was in a situation where looking for a roomate in NJ. I found this older woman and we met about five times. We got along great! The day I was going to move in,she asked my ethnicity. I told her I was black. She refused to believe me. She first thought I was Latina. When I told her I wasn’t she said, “well you have to be at least mixed.” When I insisted that I’m full black she went ballistic!
Her first concern was bringing guys (translation – black guys) into her home. She told me over and over how she doesn’t allow guys to come over. That was her main issue, she didn’t want these black “brutes” in her house.
The situation got so out of hand that I went to the NJ police, they helped me move my things out of the house and stored it at one of their friends house for me.
It’s interesting how someones perception of someone can change instantly based on race.
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soul said:
“I used to get soo embarassed I used to cover up by book titles on the train. Now I just don’t care anymore.”
LOL. I used to do that too.
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alwaysright101 said:
“it was obvious to me that most of them were racist because even after reading the blog, they showed absolutely no comprehension or understanding of the posts. instead they derailed and tried to make themselves the victims…”
I noticed that too.
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Islandgirl,
Do you often get asked about your ethnic origins?
That’s crazy how that woman flipped on you like that. So if you “Latina” or “mixed”, you would have been more acceptable?
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Abagond,
You summed up everything I wanted to say perfectly in this post.
I got my rude awakening as well, after reading enough commentary on various internet sites.
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I figured alot of this out when I was a child. In fact I detested white people as I was getting ‘vibes’ from them for which at the time I was unable to articulate. I wasn’t familiar with the terms that went with them. I was also taught coming up to look for modes of behaviour exhibited by many whites which were subtle and potentialy harmful. But the more one educates oneself whether formally or informally, one can elucidate these feelings and try to overcome them(the detestation of a group of people that is). I will say that it is an ongoing process though.
I initially give most people the benefit of the doubt upon first aquaintance unless they do or say something that sets off my ‘racism radar’. I am not talking about natural curiosity, we all have it. I am talking about question(s) of such a nature as to impute stereotypical behaviour and negative attributes to whole racialized groups.
I find people in general to be obtuse when it come to racism in that they propogate racism or conversley, are oblivious to it when experiencing it(1.whites, 2 racialized people). It is particularly enervating when racialized people themselve are imperceptive as to what’s going on around them when they encounter racism until something overt occurs. In effect, they wake up from their ‘coma’. This usually has a devastating effect on them. I have witnessed this on numerous occasions and it is not ‘pretty’.
I live in a predominately white country but I live in a metropolis so there are multitudiness racialized people there. Step out of this city and racialized people are few and far between. In some instances, depending on where you go you are stared at. I have heard of black people having run ins in smaller cities or towns.
Before the onset of mass immigration in the 1960s-70s, it was not uncommon for racialized people to be verbally abused to their face with racial epithets and in some cases assaulted. Whoever coined the phrase “There is safety in numbers”, knew what they were talking about at least in respects to mass immigration as noted above. Coincidentally, this is when racism started to go underground becoming aversive and colour-blind in nature.
I live in Toronto, Canada a country which is proud of their multi-culturalism and ‘human rights’ record. The reality is different however. With the exception of fringe elements of white supremists, most of the whites tend towards covert racism and will be mortally offended if you call them a racist or allude to behaviour which can be construed as such. They think racists are klansmen or white supremists nutjobs. It’s like accusing them or some heinous crime. So yes, Most white people are racist and they don’t have a clue. That’s scary.
Reading this blog and the posts of many of the white people and the situations many of the racialized people re-count here tends to bare this out as lived experiences rather than statistics. The similiarities are quite astounding actually.
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“Do you often get asked about your ethnic origins?”
Sometimes, not really sure why. I’m not as light as my pic. My coloring is somewhere between Stacey Dash and Lynette – in that general family.
People say it’s because of my eyes. I have dark features (eyebrows, lashes) and jet black hair. But most either think Latina, Ethiopian or Indian.
And mostly out side of my region. I live in a small midwestern town that lumps everyone together. If you’re of latin descent, you’re “Mexican”. Asian descent you’re “Chinese” and East Indian, your a terrorist.
“That’s crazy how that woman flipped on you like that. So if you “Latina” or “mixed”, you would have been more acceptable?”
Well, I think she had more of an issue with the men potientially to enter her home. Though black women experience racism, there is a certain amount of fear attached to black men. But now, some of that fear has shifted to men in the Muslim community.
I do have to say, that day I saw the best and worst of humanity. That lady was the worst. The police officers were the best. They were white. But I don’t know what I would have done without them.
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Also, I was confused by one popular commenter. Sometimes he seemed sincere and others he fell back into his ways. I think he was really attracted to black women but he struggled internally against his racial biases.
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I think you mean Azrazyel. To his credit he at least knew he was racist and seemed troubled by it.
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Herneith said:
“With the exception of fringe elements of white supremists, most of the whites tend towards covert racism and will be mortally offended if you call them a racist or allude to behaviour which can be construed as such. They think racists are klansmen or white supremists nutjobs. It’s like accusing them or some heinous crime.”
Same in America.
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Yeah, Islandgirl, judging from your avatar pic, I don’t find you to be racially ambigious. You appear to be a really pretty black female. Maybe, that’s why you get asked about your ethnic origins sometimes? You know, if a black woman is extremely attractive…then something ain’t just right! There’s gotta be some vanilla/soy sauce/salsa, etc. in that glass of chocolate milk for that to happen! *wink, wink, nudge, nudge* LOL.
I agree about Azraeyal,
At least he acknowledges his ignorance and fears. That’s more than the majority of his white peers.
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Interesting post. It’s particularly interesting because of Abagond’s honesty. Anytime someone mentions their underlying assumptions, in my book, is good.
I also wonder if Abagond’s assumptions (e.g. that White people “just didn’t know any better” and would “change” if they “saw the truth”) aren’t as much a part of our culture as everything else mentioned in the post and comments regarding the way White people seem to think/act. I say that because the idea that racism is born out of ignorance seems to be an almost universal shorthand explanation. It’s the perfect set up for the expectations that Whites will “change” when provided with information that contradicts stereotypes or tells them something they didn’t/couldn’t know.
At times, I wonder why it was/is important for people to believe or promote that view. It’s been clear to me for quite some time, given my online experiences with discussing race in mixed company, that most Whites see themselves as having a vested interest in the status quo or the slowest change possible. Nothing illustrates that point any clearer than my recent experience on the Racism Review blog run by a couple of White social science scholars.
When Whites go out of their way to try to deny racism on a blog specifically dedicated to discussing it and you know something is up.
One of the most illuminating comments I read about the anti-health care reform rallies and the vitriol is how commentators seemed to be quick to deny that racism was involved because it seemed [White] America’s self-image was more important, the myth of a post-racial society and all. Once you really think about it, that’s pretty much it: no matter what you say about American history or the times we live in today, White [Americans] essentially believe they are good [and exceptional/superior] people. IMO, they (the collective, general “they”) only care about racism to the extent that it interferes with that narrative, both about them personally and about the country/government in general. Deep down, a lot of Whites seem to view the U.S./gov’t as a special story about them. Which is why both Pres. Carter and Rev. Jeremiah Wright were viewed as having committed some kind of social sin. Carter for suggesting that in 2009 that Obama’s race mattered, even after being elected president; Wright for daring to suggests that the gov’t (which was made synonymous with Whites) didn’t hold Black people in the highest regards and could never be suspect as far as AIDS is concerned.
Like the U.S. gov’t always did right and never participated in any wrong-doing when it came to her “citizens of African descent.” Like the Katrina response was a shining example of such high regard, etc., etc., etc.
So, I guess, one can hardly help coming away with the cynical view that it’s all about image maintenance with White folks which, by its very nature, is very important to privilege maintenance…
{Ramble off}
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racism will never and has never stopped people from having sex.
The KKK hated black folks guts, it never stopped them from sexually abusing black women.
In generations gone by, white male scientists declared all black folk savage and less than human, it did not stop these same scientist from sexing black women.
today we are in a situation where many white men will openly declare black women to be ‘ghetto’ lacking in class, not demure, ugly blah blah blah… and it still doesn’t stop them from fantasizing about us or wanting to have sex with us.
They will call us unattractive, but they want to have sex with us. dominate us, eroticise us.
They want us, they try to deny it, but the more they do, the more they hate themselves.
So why would anyone be surprised that a white man who is racist still desires black women.
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Abagond, I have three words for you:
I FEEL YOU!!!
Usually I have something more intelligent to say, but this time, this entry, this is appropriate.
xoxo,
Alexandria the Great
AKA
~*~ Pretty Star
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As a white man, I’d like to know what place, if any, white folks have in this thread, or in the world, those who are actively trying to unlearn and fight the racism fed us our whole lives.
What are your thoughts on “white allies”?
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“I don’t find you to be racially ambigious.”
Thanks, we agree!
Thanks for your kind words! I really appreciate it.
“You know, if a black woman is extremely attractive…then something ain’t just right!”
There’s a lot of truth to that. While I think multi-racial people are beautiful – monoracial are equally so. It’s also why some darker skinned black women get the, “You’re pretty to be black.” Because there is no other way to justify it.
“There’s gotta be some vanilla/soy sauce/salsa, etc. in that glass of chocolate milk for that to happen! *wink, wink, nudge, nudge* ”
LOL – why can’t chocolate milk be good on it’s own?
It reminds me of when Obama was competing for his Presidency. I heard a lot of people accredit his high intelligence to his white side and the fact he was raised by a white family. Same kind of thing. A very superior mindset.
Azareyl did seem like he was trying to overcome his issues but I think he felt attacked at times. It’s good he tried to sort through his feelings before he was in a IR relationship.
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Dan, given everything Abagond laid out in the commentary, why are you even asking about thoughts on “white allies”?
I’d think that Whites “who are actively trying to unlearn and fight the racism” they’ve been fed they’re “whole lives” wouldn’t feel as if Abagond’s commentary was about them. Also, one of the more pointed and powerful comments addressed how the kind of White people Abagond talked about routinely “derailed” threads and “tried to make themselves the victims” — i.e. central to or the topic of conversation.
So why are you shifting the focus of this thread when the kind of White “allies” you described are obviously not the point? Plus it would seem like the kind of “unlearning” you spoke about would be something Abagond appreciates. At the very least, such “white allies” would justify Abagond’s assumption and meet the noted expectation:
“..if they woke up and saw the truth they would change.”
I mean, that’s what you just described. So why are you unclear about what Abagond feels about “white allies”…?
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Dan:
Nquest is right. Anyone of any colour who wakes up and fights against racism is on my side as far as I am concerned.
I know that some white people can change. Unfortunately in my experience they are far and few between. Only now am I understanding why that is.
Your place in this thread is the same as anyone else’s: to give your honest thoughts about the post or the comments made.
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Chocolate milk tastes perfectly good on its own 😉
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Thank you, Alexandria!
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@Nquest – having read the comment I think you referred to, my intention was not to derail the argument.
I was curious, and in hindsight, Abagond, your post speaks for itself. I speak from the white perspective because it’s what I know – and I also don’t want it to be all that I know, that is, taking off and crushing those rose-colored glasses.
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@dan:
Your comment does shift focus.
on reading this post and the comments in it, it should have made you search the blog and find an adequate post to suit your query.
But you didn’t, are you seriously asking what place white men have in the world?
Really? or did I misread that.
But then I’m really not surprised.
Unlike Abagond and Nquest, I just don’t believe any more in the notion of white allies.
Unlearning your racism should start with you. Not with asking black people to teach you. What is so hard about examining your humanity?
With all the info on this blog, your quetion seems to be asking to be spoon fed.
To be honest, I just don’t believe you.
It’s obvious you speak from the white perspective, it’s called privilege.
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mynameismyname Says:
Yeah, Islandgirl, judging from your avatar pic, I don’t find you to be racially ambigious. You appear to be a really pretty black female. Maybe, that’s why you get asked about your ethnic origins sometimes? You know, if a black woman is extremely attractive…then something ain’t just right! There’s gotta be some vanilla/soy sauce/salsa, etc. in that glass of chocolate milk for that to happen! *wink, wink, nudge, nudge* LOL.
My little sister gets the same stick.
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Soul: “Unlearning your racism should start with you.”
I think Abagond’s post should highlight how learning/unlearning is something POC/Black people have to do as well. With that said, I with you, Soul. I grow more and more leery of the language (“unlearning”) and assumptions that our fellow human beings who are White are, somehow, at some disadvantage when it comes to recognizing or “unlearning” racism.
To avoid another lengthy post, I’ll leave it at that and only ask for people to consider that we’re all human beings with things that we all have to learn/unlearn.
Speaking about unlearning… In the last few days, I helped a second grader with a reading assignment. The short story was about a Chinese girl immigrating to the U.S. and the problems she had making friends because couldn’t speak English well when she first arrived.
Well, the girl’s first friend was described as a blonde haired, blue eyed [White] girl who befriended her when no one else would. The striking thing was how the White girl was said to have the most “beautiful” hair the Chinese girl had ever seen. So “beautiful” the Chinese girl just had to touch it, something that’s quiet odd giving the history of the hair touching impulse.
No physical description was given for any of the other characters, including the Chinese girl, herself. Of course the rather explicit association of White with beauty is historically (and currently) problematic for POC. The short story was written in 1991. Not 1931. 1991.
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Lynette,
“Islandgirl,
Funny! I get Ethiopian too, and Trinidadians think I belong to them.”
I’m guilty! When I first saw your pic, I didn’t know what to make of your ethnicity. You have that Ananda Lewis, Chili type of thing going.
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“This has not made me hate white people.
It has simply made me wake the heck up and put those guards back in place. They protected me before, they will never be removed again.
I will continue to converse, associate, dine and interact with white people, but I will never again, engage in any deeply emotional relationship with them.”
Soul, I completely understand where you are coming from as I have made this mistake before myself. I’m glad this has not made you bitter.
But I just wanted to send out a hug and say that there are white people out there that aren’t racist, they’re just a bit difficult to find. I understand completely about not letting down your guard, though, as I feel this way about white American men from the South. At some point it just seemed like it wasn’t worth the effort.
Two of my best friends are white women (an American and a Serbian) and they’re truly not racist (and I’ve known them both for over 10 years). I have another close friend of 5 years now that is a white woman from Slovakia.
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“My experiences may not have been as outright racist as a black person, but that I can relate to a certain extent.”
Leigh:
I’m sure you CAN relate! Just this weekend I was down on the Mall in DC and was walking with my mother and daughter. I was looking around, admiring the view and appreciating the diversity of the environment.
Then, to my complete, disgusted shock, my mother busts out with, “It’s crazy isn’t it? It’s like ‘get yourself an Asian woman’ nowadays, isn’t it? We were all talking about that at work last week. It’s because they’re so submissive. Some guys like that.” I just about had a heart attack. I told her off but she was just surprised that I didn’t agree to this obvious truth.
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Abagond,
As with all your posts, I thoroughly enjoyed reading this!
But what concerns me is that Dan, in the above comments, desired only to know what could he could do. And although I agree with the comments from you and other readers, the “tone” of the readers’ comments wasn’t necessary. This obviously disengaged him from any further communication about our issues with racism. I think his intentions were good, even if he mispoke or you didnt understand. In order to educate others about your position, we must be more civil in our dialogue. After all, because of their history and ethnicity, they will NEVER have a full awareness. But I applaud his efforts to at least try and learn.
Dan: your attempts at learning what you can do to combat racism are appreciated, by me, at least. Honestly, I can suggest all types of things to help you in your quest for understanding; reading, attending african-american history college courses, watching educational documentaries depicting the black experience, etc.
But quite frankly and unfortunately, you probably will never fully understand. And without that understanding, all good intentions become rather futile.
That is not to say that you sit back and do nothing. What I do suggest is that maybe you exchange conversations with other whites. Learn your own history; why your ancestors did what they did and so on. Discuss what racism means to your people, how it impacted your life, both personally and professionally (i.e.,affirmative action), if applicable.
Apparently, you are unsettled by the treatment other groups of people. That’s a start. But as Soul stated, it starts with you. It may be quite difficult to change you and your loved ones’ beliefs about other ethnic groups, particularly when you have the media constantly perpetuating stereotypes about us. Your race has used those stereotypes to blanket their ignorance for so long that it may be quite difficult to expose yourself to that much vulnerability and guilt. Never calling a black person a ‘nigger’ does not exonerate you from racist behavior. Having black friends does not exonorate you from racist behavior… you get my drift. Examine yourself, study your history, your family’s morals and values. Ask very direct questions to your elders about their beliefs. Hope I helped.
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“I think those ladies are drop dead gorgeous.”
Beyond – and very underrated. You’re in a good club.lol
“And although I agree with the comments from you and other readers, the “tone” of the readers’ comments wasn’t necessary. This obviously disengaged him from any further communication about our issues with racism. I think his intentions were good, even if he mispoke or you didnt understand. In order to educate others about your position, we must be more civil in our dialogue.”
I couldn’t agree more. If someone is reaching out to learn, obviously they are ignorant to that situation. You must realize this and have patience when educating that person.
ThatChick – I hope Dan learned something from your post.
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@Islandgirl..
. You must realize this and have patience when educating that person.
I must?. Really?. I must.
erm nope. I don’t have to.
I do not have a never ending well of understanding, patience and forgiveness, neither am I the earth Mother, Mother Theresa and the Virgin Mary rolled into one.
I’m sorry but it’s these type of comments which enables people like Dan to be morally and intellectually lazy.
Dan is not the victim here, even he has admitted that Abagond’spost speaks for itself. His post was from a position of privilege. The post is NOT about white allies, why bring it up if not to derail the argument and make it about him.
Guess what he has succeeded. Cos now we are talking about him and he’s oh ‘enthusiasm to be better and ‘unpack’his racism.
If he wanted to do that, he would not have brought up the white allies discussion and asked about white mens place in this world.
I mean gosh datn it! come on.
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always right said it best!
“it was obvious to me that most of them were racist because even after reading the blog, they showed absolutely no comprehension or understanding of the posts. instead they derailed and tried to make themselves the victims“
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@black&German..
lol. Bitterness is for punks lol. Nope. It has made me vextremely practical and logical.
Thanks for the hugs (but next time can you just send me chocolate cake lol, i know I’m being cheeky but chocolate cake rocks)
Anyway, I know and complete agree with you that there are non-racist white people, if I happen to meet them along my life journey then that will be the coolest thing ever. But I will not actively search for it.
I’m done with that, seriously just done.
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Soul, I wasn’t even THINKING about you when I made that comment. I was agreeing with ThatChick.
I don’t know what you’re problem is with me but obviously there’s an issue. And following me from one post to the next picking at everything that I say isn’t going to help you solve them.
Leave me alone!
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erm…
why do you keep thinking that it’s about your personally…
geez! I’ve responded to pretty much most people who I either agree with or disagree with.
Please… you are not that bloody special.
Get a grip.
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oh and for the record….
You were the first person who quoted me on a previous post!. To which I responded and you didn’t like the response. I just checked post number 112 on ‘stuff white men say to black women’.
I didn’t think you were the thinking about me personally! You made a point and I countered it.
Can you really not stand having your viewpoint or opinion challenged?.
I don’t get it. I’m not holding you. It’s a bloody internet board fer chris sake. It’s not personal.
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@Nquest…
you said:
I think Abagond’s post should highlight how learning/unlearning is something POC/Black people have to do as well.
Yes, Yes. Yes.
Black people have to learn, when to say something, when to address racism and when to let it slide, when to voice your disgareement with a white person and when not to.
A challenge at the wrong time could cost you your life.
Everyone at birth has to learn that everyone else is human. Why do we think that white people don’t have to learn that, and that it is something which they need to be hand held through as adults.
I don’t believe that, I don’t believe that one bit.
As an example in this thread, it’s not that Dan can’t read the title and comments and see that he would derail the arguement, it’s more that in that moment it doesn’t matter to him. His background makes it okay for him to introduce himself as a victim here.
I can’t bring myself to enable or encourage that.
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Soul,
Yes, chocolate cake does rock. Have you ever had Death by Chocolate? La petite mort when you eat it.
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ohhhhh….
you are naughty. I don’t want to derail the thread any further so I’m going to add a suggestion that Abagond write a post about chocolate cake.
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Yes, Abagond! Chocolate cake! It definitely deserves a post.
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Think I’m going to bake one now. That’d give me a further excuse to stay in the kitchen (where my laptop is) and pretend that I’m not neglecting my duties.
I’ve been a bit schizophrenic for a week now because I’ve been so into the topics. My day now runs like this:
— Get up and check posts
— Go for a jog
— Check posts
— Take a shower
— Check posts
— Breakfast with the kids
— Check posts
— Work on “school stuff” with kids
— Check posts
— Puzzle or play boardgames with kids
— Check posts
— Sort laundry and start the wash
— Check posts
— Lunch with the kids and husband
— Check posts
— Take youngest to playground
— Check posts
— Pick up preschooler
— Check posts
…
Anybody else seeing a pattern here? My husband has already asked me if he “needs to be jealous of this Abagond guy”.
This blog is positively addictive! There should be some sort of warning label.
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I think I need a detox. I’m going to go bake my cake and will not be returning until tomorrow. Truly. Perhaps I should lock away my laptop and swallow the key to aid myself in this pursuit.
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Soul,
I respectfully disagree with your comment about Dan (and perhaps others like him) being “morally and intellectually lazy”. Laziness would be NOT to inquire, from the very people who deal with racism daily, about what he could possibly do to educate himself. Again, his intentions were good. He’s not a victim; in fact, from what I gather, he realizes that many in his race are indeed the culprits. No one is enabling him to do anything, except to think.
And as far as this derailment thing goes, as Ab told Dan, “give your honest thoughts about the post or the comments made.” That gives permission to take the conversation anywhere you’d like for it go; seeing as though we are all individuals with different thinking processes, you can’t expect threads to stay on one course. Racism/race relations isn’t that simple.
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There’s nothing wrong with respectful disagreement. It becomes personal with comments like –
“neither am I the earth Mother, Mother Theresa and the Virgin Mary rolled into one.”
And
“Please… you are not that bloody special.”
“Get a grip”.
You never personally addressed the OP, glossed over that and went right to me.
I’m all for respectful and intelligent debate and challenge (whether it’s me or someone else). But when the comments become condescending, immature and petty, I’d rather not participate.
Since the last episode, I don’t even read your posts, unless I see my name. You don’t have to read mine either. No big deal.
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Islandgirl,
Right on with comment #63! I have the same view.
You really felt that way about Lynette? LOL.
Lynette is CLEARLY a really pretty black woman! Nothing ambigious about her (or Ananda) IMO. But its all subjective. I can see why a lot of Trinidadians may believe her to be “one of them”. LOL. My sister gets that too.
There’s a difference between looking “racially ambigious” and just being a pretty, medium-brown black woman with long hair. LOL.
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To Abagond:
I knew white Americans were racist – living in so-called liberal New York left no doubt in my mind about that – but I had no idea how deep their racism ran.
Didn’t you say a fairly high proportion of your visitors originated from the racist website Storm Front..? If that’s the case this would decidedly skew whatever white audience you have. (Storm Front people love to tell me that I am not white because my father is Jewish… ) You also had a guy who posted on this blog (I believe his handle was “race realist” if that isn’t a tell…(as I roll my eyes..) who listed his homepage as Amren.com which is a white nationalist website.
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To Abagond:
So then I saw that racism is rooted not in a lack of facts or bad ideas, as I thought, but in their sense of self-worth.
Is your premise that white people maintain a sense of superiority over black people to increase their self-worth..?
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Mynameismyname,
“Islandgirl,
Right on with comment #63! I have the same view.”
Thanks brotha! OMg, what’s really going on?!lol
Yeah, I did think that about Lynette. I think it’s the complexion. Some people have a certain quality to their skin, kinda sunkissed or maybe their undertones, that makes people question. It’s so much their (Lynette, Anada) hair.
But, you’re right, it is subjective.
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Uncle Milton:
I am not basing what I say on Amren or Stormfront sorts. They are openly racist and race conscious. Some white South African commenters on this blog have been the same way. I see them as extreme since most white Americans are not like that.
“Is your premise that white people maintain a sense of superiority over black people to increase their self-worth..?”
I would put it the other way: their self-worth is built on looking down on black people. That is why they cling to their racism.
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@Island girl..
That was me saying, you know the mother theresa quote was about myself right?. Not you… about ME
the other quote was because you accused me of ‘following you around from thread to thread’ since I joined this site you have accused me of different things in response to my very first post which was addressed to black &German.
I didn’t gloss over what ThatChk said, if you read her post again you will see that she quoted me, told and then provided me with more depth so that I could understand where she was coming from.
I think you are projecting on to me and guilty of the very things you are accusing me of.
Please stop it.
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@ThatChk
hmm, surely if he wasn’t lazy he would have done the research on this blog himself instead of waiting to be spoonfed and painting himself as a victim.
I still find it incredulous that he asked where a white man’s place is in this world.. I mean really?
You and I might have to agree to disagree on where he was coming from, on this one.
I’ve tried to see it from your POV, I seriously can’t.
I understand posts not staying on course, completely. so I’ll take your pov on this and just it be.
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Soul,
I agree. We will leave it be.
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@ThatChick…
Thanks for engaging though, just so you know I’m still trying to wrap my head around your POV.
(I’m trying to remove the word ‘can’t’ from my vocabulary.
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@ Soul- Lol! thats good to know. Im sorry that cant help make it more clear. But its good to know opinions don’t necessarily need to match in order to be respected. Hopefully, you and Island can settle your differences so we can continue to have more intelligent discussions like these.
BTW: Liked your blog, especially the ‘waxing’ post; one of the many “pleasures” of being a woman.
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To Abagond:
Also: They know perfectly well that blacks are getting screwed for no good reason – they have seen the ghettos, they know the numbers – but to avoid a sense of guilt they have to believe that blacks truly are just that screwed up all on their own.
As you have pointed out in another post most poor people are white:
“Most poor people are white. Most poor people do not live in cities, but in places where reporters and film-makers hardly ever go.”
For the most part I don’t see white people lamenting about the conditions of other whites in Appalachia, rural Kansas, or other areas where there is a substantial amount of (predominantly white) poverty. For the most they are ignored but when brought up on various bloogs it’s not uncommon to see open contempt towards poor rural whites with phrases like “Deliverance country”, Hillbillies, Slack jowled rednecks… do a search on the blogs like Huffington Post or the DailyKos if you don’t believe me.
I do think a fair number of middle and upper middle class whites don’t think programs directed at poverty work or work especially well. But they certainly don’t favor spending money on poor whites over poor blacks. 50 – 60 years ago probably a different story.. but now.. I have heard a number of whites discuss t how much money they send to Africa or aiding poor inner city youth (which are predominantly black or Latino..) but the same sorts of people would roll their eyes and wonder about you if you talked about aiding poor rural whites.
For example:
http://www.gatesfoundation.org/press-releases/Pages/african-cocoa-and-cashew-farmers-090218.aspx
http://borgenproject.blogspot.com/2009/07/warren-buffetts-son-farms-in-africa.html
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To be clear, I was attempting to ask Dan what his question was about, where he was coming from and why asked about what Abagond thinks about white allies. To me, it seemed like Dan felt like somewhat offended because Abagond’s post could be read (mistakenly, IMO) as a sweeping generalization about all White people.
If that wasn’t the case and if Dan merely wanted to hear what Abagond thought about white allies… it’s unclear why Dan wanted to know: “what place, if any, white folks have in this thread…?” Which, to me, says nothing about Dan wanting to know “what could he could do.” It seems clear to me that Dan communicated that he was uncomfortable with the topic, “as a white man”, so much so that he not only asked what place he/Whites had in this thread (i.e. Whites aren’t welcome in this thread, per the topic) but he asked what place do Whites have “in the world.”
Surely if anyone should take offense to the tone and implications in comments here, it should be Abagond and anyone who understands and appreciates what Abagond attempted to say in this thread, in particular, and with this blog in general.
Dan essentially accused Abagond of being more or less hostile towards Whites… hostile enough to make someone like Dan question whether they are welcome to comment here in this thread or to even exist in the whole entire world. I agree with Soul, this is beyond belief. So, too, is the way ThatChickNik read some generalized quest for understanding into Dan’s very specific question.
There is clearly some kind of disconnect.
Dan did ask about what he could do. In fact, we don’t even know if his inquiry has anything to do with him personally — i.e. he asked WHAT PLACE DO WHITE ALLIES, “those who are actively trying to unlearn and fight the racism fed us our whole lives”, have in this thread/world. So suggestions about what to read and sources for learning about the Black experience simply do not address his line of questioning or the apparent sentiment behind it.
If I were Dan or someone who considered myself a white ally, I’d have a problem with patronizing comments that (1) missed the point entirely and (2) offered suggestions for something I never asked for/about in the first place.
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To Nquest:
You read his comment in one way, I another. But to say that I was “offended” by your tone, is a bit much. I simply felt the need to type in my opinion about it as well as Dan’s inquiry.
Not that I need to explain this to you dear, but for argument’s sake, which you seem to want to do, I will. I addressed the part of the question “…or in the world, those who are actively trying to unlearn and fight the racism fed us our whole lives” I advised him on what I thought to be useful tools in that fight.
You, on the other hand, seem to want to concentrate on why he’s
asking the question in the first place; what is a white man doing asking what his place in the thread/world is (and that’s NOT patronizing, right?) Whatever you’d like. You choose to on the comment that way you felt you needed to. That’s your call. My comment regarding you, or anyone else’s tone was stating the way I felt. Period. End of story.
Dan’s a big boy; if he felt my comment was “patronizing”, he is free to tell me so. But given the responses to his question, I doubt if he’ll be coming back around these parts anytime soon. In the meantime, I will continue to think my comments/suggestions to him were appropriate.
Funny, we’re still discussing Dan and the subsequent comments about him and he is long gone. I too consider myself done with this issue. Disconnect indeed. Have a nice night.
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Regarding Abagond’s conclusion about White people’s self-worth… I should say that I don’t know to what extent I agree/disagree with that view. I agree totally with the idea (or, rather, I completely believe) that Whites who find a way to excuse, ignore, defend or otherwise dismiss racism as a serious issue that they are obliged to deal with, etc. do so out of some sense that doing so would work against their [racial] self-interest. I also subscribe to the belief that some Whites consider themselves “allies” but tend make the anti-racism project more difficult and burdensome on POC, consciously or not. That’s a fairly common thread that runs through a lot of what I’ve read from serious writers/activists/bloggers who talk about race/racism.
And since I’m talking about what I think… I have a problem with the concept of “white allies” in the first place. Perhaps I would feel differently about that if the connotation was consistent with things like the U.S. and its NATO allies or if terms like “black allies” or Asian/Hispanic/Indigenous allies (for Whites) were in frequent use especially since POC are often expected to “educate” Whites.
It’s like the thing is completely twisted: the term “white allies” is used because of the idea that POC need or Whites should “help” POC but, due to the Help White Folks Learn and Understand Act, it’s POC who need or should help Whites “unlearn” THEIR racism, etc., etc.
Besides being twisted, there’s just a whole host of unexamined assumptions and curious expectations involved with ideas like that.
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This quote is so funny and stupid.
” white people need to hate black people in order to feel good about themselves that’s why they will never change. they hate what they see in the mirror and love what they see when they look at black people. bottom line: jealousy and envy. just that simple.”
What do blacks have that would make whites jealous? Is it the off the chains violent crimes rates in the black community? Is it the 70% out of wedlock births? Is it that 80% of all new HIV cases are black women? Is it that 1 out 4 black men have HIV? Is that almost every Black community in America or Africa is a hell hole? Is iot that almost 1/3 of black men have a criminal record? Is that black men make up a majority of the prison population? Yes, were so jealous Jasmin. The fact of the matter is blacks are the one’s who are jealous, because when black folks look around their communities all they see are fuck ups and losers. Blacks want to blame white folks for all their self-inflicted problems. Every group has come to America and has struggled at first but eventually established themselves. Blacks are the only group that can’t figure out how to succeed.
Whites don’t think were superior to other races, we just think blacks are inferior because you’ve never given us any reason to think otherwise. Black people need to feel good about themselves by bashing whites because it gives blacks a built in excuse for failure. If blacks want to advance, they ought to take a good long look in the mirror instead of blaming all their problems and shortcomings on whites. It’s a difference in mentality that explains the differences in achievement between blacks and other races. Unfortunately, this racial difference is inherent, it’s not just a bad habit blacks accidentally fell into one day and can easily come out of.
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Here are some modern day facys I found onli’ne about Blacks: There are an estimated 1.5 million Black men in prison and another 3.5 million on probation. Black males make up more than 70 percent of the total prison population, even though they make up only 6 percent of the U.S. population.
Although blacks are 12% of the population in reality it is just 2% of the blacks that commit 50% of the murders and a greater percentage of other crimes. Consider: black females – 6%. Blacks from zero yrs. to 12 yrs. and black males from 50-100 years commit an infinitesimal percentage of the crimes. Therefore we are left with two percent. If we eliminate crimes committed by this two percent from the U.S. statistics our country compares very favorably with all Western countries. Fact — blacks kill 7 times more than whites kill. Fact — blacks kill whites 20 times more than whites kill blacks. Fact — blacks mug or commit group crime against whites 50 times more than whites commit against blacks. Fact — blacks rape white women 2000 (yes 2000) times more than whites rape black women. In New York City, about 300 white women are raped by blacks every year BUT there has not been a black woman raped by a white male in anybody¢s memory (going back over 20 yrs.) Consider: Al Sharpton had to go upstate New York to find a hoax and that was almost 20 years ago. (Source NYT 4/22/05)
According to the Bureau of Justice Statistics 2004 report (released May 2006), blacks commit 54 percent of the homicides in America even though they constitute only 12 percent of the population.
An individual black male is seven times more likely to commit murder than an individual white male. It so happens that black felons commit 43 percent of aggravated assaults, 66 percent of armed robberies, 27 percent of rapes and 85 percent of interracial crimes of violence, mainly against whites (this last figure from a Justice Department report 2003). However, it’s not just in the United States. The greatest dicators in recent years have emerged in Africa. People like Idi Amin of Uganda, Hastings Kamuzu Banda in Malawi, Mobutu Sese Seko, in Zaire, self-anointed Emperor Bokassa of the Central African Republic, Mohammed Saidi Barre in Somalia, Sani Abacha of Nigeria, Robert Mugabe in Zimbabwe — the list is endless
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Igor:
Dude, quit plagiarizing. Give it up already.
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Igor,count Dracula is calling you.
He wants to know why you can’t comment on the post but keep throwing out the same old statistcs….
“sigh” 😦
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ThatChickNik: “I doubt if he’ll [Dan] be coming back around these parts anytime soon.”
You say that as if that is supposed to mean something… as if that is important or should be important. All important… all while failing to comprehend the very thing that was said/communicated by whatever comments or commenters whose tone you deemed unnecessary. Unnecessary because of what? Dan not coming back around these parts is important? WHY?
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Nquest:
It was unnecessary because I said it was. And whether Dan comes back to comment or not is not important. Proceed with thinking that I have failed at comprehending his comment if you must but moving forward, you can stop addressing me. To think that this sentence is all you were able to take away from all that we’ve discussed. Which is why I believe I said I was done with the issue. Bye.
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To Abagond:
I would put it the other way: their self-worth is built on looking down on black people. That is why they cling to their racism.
Well I’ve been around white people for 47 years and I don’t get that sense except for some of the types at WN websites.
Or perhaps I am not understanding what you mean by the concept of clinging to racism.
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“It was unnecessary because I said it was.”
LMAO!!!
Thanks for the entertainment!
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Hee Hee…no, thank YOU! Couldn’t of done it all by myself. Next time, don’t be so modest.
I now know where to come when I need comedy in its simplest, no, most generic form. Now go to bed child.
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those who are actively trying to unlearn and fight the racism fed us our whole lives.
What are your thoughts on “white allies”?
The brand of racism in America was not started by Black people nevertheless, black people have been actively engaged in this dialogue with “teachable moments” as well as an exhaustive canon of literature, the arts and social commentary that more than eloquently discusses dismantling racism and attempting to get White people to view us through a lens of empathy and shared humanity instead of as sub human AIDS infested genetic throwbacks. Therefore the onus of fighting racism should now go to White people.
Whites don’t need Blacks to show them anything—if you see an injustice the burden of action is for you to do something about it from speaking to Whites that you don’t like N*gger jokes to qurstionising why you choose to live in an all white neighborhood or be surrounded only by white people, or why you don’t have any POC as acquaintances or real friends.
Frederic Douglass discussed this as did Harriett Tubman and Nat Turner through heir actions. The Harlem Renaissance was born from a cabal of artists and free thinkers attempting to use creativity with their unique artistic voice as well as to teach non-Blacks about who they are and what they needed to due to see us as Human. Ella Fitzgerald and Billie Holiday sang songs about our experiences and their pain and James Baldwin, Toni Morrison, August Wilson and Lorraine Lansbury used powerful narrative to articulate what Whites could do. There is a catalogue of information, a breadth and wealth of information that is available for any non-Black person to utilize what they can do to end racism and do the right thing. I think Blacks have said all they needed to say. We have repeated the same talking points for centuries ad nauseam—and now there is nothing left to add.
And now Blacks sound shrill and we are accused of crying wolf one too many times, thus its Whites turn to do the heavy lifting and to actively and consciously enact measures to stamp out racism. We have been shouldering the burden of attempting to teach, to understand, and to be considerate of Whites slow learning curve for far too long.
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Excellent counter-point, Mayhue. I can appreciate the intellect of this comment. you’re right; many of our people have made the knowledge more than accessible to both blacks and non-blacks. With that said, whites like Dan will soon realize, if not already, what they need to do.
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thus its Whites turn to do the heavy lifting and to actively and consciously enact measures to stamp out racism.
From the abolitionists, to the NAACP the (5 out of it’s 8 founders were white), to Truman’s integration of the US military, to CORE (Congress of Racial Equality 2 of it’s 4 founding memebers were white) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Congress_of_Racial_Equality, to SDS (heavily white) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Students_for_a_Democratic_Society_(1960_organization)
Eisenhower’s enforcement of school desegregation in Arkansas, Kennedy’s furtherance of desegregation in Alabama and Mississippi, to Johnson’s persuasion of members of congress (through calling in favors and citing “do this in memory of Kennedy..) to pass the civil rights act…. whites have played a very active role in stamping racism of their fellow whites. I think to some degree… some of the problems regard anti racist activity among whites is that such actions and ideas are/were done through the lens of being raised white and with a sense of paternalism.
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“…the onus of fighting racism should now go to White people.
And that’s the very problem ThatChickNik’s “concerns” about “unnecessarily” harsh or not-so-civil tones driving White people like Dan away or making them less apt to engage… It puts the onus not on White people but on Black people, in this case. It puts the burden of getting White folks, even good White folks to “understand”, on Black folks which readily becomes it’s Black folks fault if Whites don’t “understand.”
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ThatChickNik: “Excellent counter-point, Mayhue.”
Mayhue’s point echoed sentiments already voiced in this thread.
Mayhue: “We have been shouldering the burden of attempting to teach, to understand, and to be considerate of Whites slow learning curve for far too long.”
Quoted with emphasis, for emphasis. And, actually, you took the word right out of my mouth. Like you, I keep returning to what I call ‘the racial division of labor’ to make the point you just did about all the extra-added burdens the conventional way of thinking about race-relations places on Black people. Again, it’s a weird calculus that ends up promoting the idea that racism continues to be a problem because of something Black folks didn’t do (right). And I don’t know how many times I’ve made the point that Black folks have been saying the same thing for centuries and have taking to patient, teaching approach over and over again.
I’ve come to see the intergenerational excuse of ignorance as another way of saying “with all deliberate [i.e. slow] speed.”
As far as “counterpoints” are concerned, this my story on who can “understand” and I’m sticking to it:
Out of all people, White people should know the most about racism or at least have the most to offer in terms of educating people about it. By virtue of their skin color alone, White people have an insider’s vantage point POC just don’t have when it comes to [institutional] racism in society.
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For thatChickNik and Nquest.
@Nquest:
You and I have similar thoughts and approaches.
I disagreed vehemently with thatChickNicks approach for similar reasons (especially the patience thing) but we carried on debating until we could go no further.
What you’ve written has made me think deeper and is great.
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@thatChickNick:
My thoughts are more in line with Nquest’s comments, yet you and I were able to take the debate to our different stand points.
What you have written has made me re-affirm my position but it has also made me realise that where I am now, other people are not there yet. I am racially exhausted.
I spent pretty much my whole life explaining, being patient with white people.
We disagree, but what you have written has reminded me of myself and what I used to do.
I appreciate your outlook even though I vehemently disagree with it
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@ThatChickNick and Nquest:
I just want to let both of you know that I think you are both valid.
I hate to see intelligence get questioned because we agree.
I appreciate you both, I appreciate the angles you are both coming from and I enjoy the debate it has produced.
Can you guys see it within yourselves to not insult each other.
I’m really enjoying you both. ThatChickNick, your blog kept me up late last night!! lol
I implore you both, to remove the personal from your disagreements.
You guys have soo much to say, from your angles and I for one enjoy reading both of you.
(I hope this is received in the open way it is intended. If either of you object, do let me know and I will ask abagond to delete my comment)
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Can you guys see it within yourselves to not insult each other.
Soul, there is no way I can object to that. I think your comment about different angles and different points where people are makes a lot of sense…
Regarding what we have in common, I’m not racially exhausted. Just resolute. And it’s always business. Never personal. : )
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Uncle Milton:
Middle and upper-class whites do not get worked up about the poor whites of Appalachia or anywhere else because they feel no sense of guilt about them. They do about blacks, whether they want to admit it or not.
As to Buffet and Gates I think part of why they help Africa is that their money can do more good for more people there than almost anywhere else. It has little to do with race in their case, unlike with, say, Oprah or Madonna. Not that I can read their minds or anything. It is just the sense I get.
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Uncle Milton said:
“Well I’ve been around white people for 47 years and I don’t get that sense except for some of the types at [white nationalist] websites.
“Or perhaps I am not understanding what you mean by the concept of clinging to racism.”
What I mean by “cling to racism” is that very very few whites give up their racism. They would rather be morally and intellectually dishonest than to give it up. It means that much to them. Their whiteness has become too much a part of who they are, like it was a religion, like it was a part of their soul, like it was their left arm. Not just white nationalists, who I would expect to act that way as dogmatic zealots, but even ordinary, “reasonable”, educated white people.
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Of Dan:
My sense is that he was offended by my post and felt excluded. Like, “Here I am, a white person trying to do the right thing, blah, blah, blah, and there Abagond is talking about me-as-a-white-person like that.”
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Soul said:
“I implore you both, to remove the personal from your disagreements.
You guys have soo much to say, from your angles and I for one enjoy reading both of you.”
I second that. The same goes for Soul and Island Girl.
I had to delete one of Nquest’s comments.
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Lol@abagond! Perhaps. Off the subject, I think I made a boo boo by subscribing to the comments. Now my keeps going off! Didn’t expect for this post to be as controversial as it has gotten.
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Right. I thought it would go to like 33 comments, not over a hundred!
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Just To Be Clear: when I say “white people” I mean MOST white people, not every single last one of them. SOME whites are intellectual honest, etc. (Yet it does amaze me how few of them are when it comes to questions of race.)
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@abagond.. you know I’ve spent every post stating clearly to Island girl that I have nothing against her personally. I cannoy keep on doing that. Doing it once, maybe. But having to do it over and over again… ahhh ‘I tire jare’.
But, Touche! I see where you are coming from.
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@ThatChickNick:
I will still like to discuss this further ‘the differences’ however I’m off till the end of the week and won’t be able to fully explain what I mean. Maybe we can return to it sometime?
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@Nquest..
Regarding what we have in common, I’m not racially exhausted. Just resolute. And it’s always business. Never personal. : )
I’ve approached resolute and in this process of affirming it. I feel it would be my personal utopia once I reach it.
And yes, I agree it’s always business never personal.
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Abagond: My sense is that he was offended by my post and felt excluded. Like, “Here I am, a white person trying to do the right thing, blah, blah, blah…”
Exactly. There was hardly any other way to read Dan’s question. Of that, there can be little or no “difference of opinion.”
Ababond: “I had to delete one of Nquest’s comments.”
I smell another music thread comin’ on. Just call me Keith Sweat singing, “There you go telling me no, again…” LOL
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Oops,I left the word “phone” out of my last comment #102. [that comment was deleted by Abagond]
@Soul: Absolutely! I would love to return to it once you have time.
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TO WHOM IT MAY CONCERN:
When you have different thinking processes, some narrow, some wide, there is ALWAYS room for differences of opinion. Fact is the only thing that eliminates that. And even then, there is room for differences in interpretation.
Geez, its like im in an internet sandbox, fighting over who’s turn it is to build the next castle.
Much easier for me to just get up and go play on the swing set. Moving on to your next post, Abagond.
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thus its Whites turn to do the heavy lifting and to actively and consciously enact measures to stamp out racism.
White Quakers were absolutely critical in the spread of abolitionism. White northeners kept abolition alive for ears, even as it seemed to be on its deathbed. White, English folks were crucial in getting the slave trade abolished.
LBJ sacrificed practically the entire southern base of the Democratic Party in order to sign the Civil Rights Act. Harry Truman desegregated the military. Eisenhower desegregated the schools by force. He could have easily caved, instead he sent the National Guard to escort children to school.
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I just deleted some Nquest and ThatChicNik comments that seemed to be getting too personal.
Unless and until Dan shows up here, I am enforcing a moratorium on talking about Dan and What He Truly Meant. It has got way out of hand, it is creating bad feelings and derailing the thread. We each have our own interpretation of the Sayings of Dan and have stated them. We will leave it at that for now.
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are we supposed to be thankful or grateful to the people who created the abominable form of slavery for helping to end it.
And they were not ‘Crucial’. Black people were crucial in ending slavery, with their lives, blood and sweat.
We mutinied, many who bought their freedom spent countless amounts of money and time pettitioning the court.
They worked tirelessly and by bribing and PAYING officials of the court to fight for them.
And in the end whose praises are being sung?. Not the actual ex slaves who hired the lawyers or the slaves who demanded or paid to have the courts petitioned…
The Irony of all Ironies is that it is the story of the lawyers or the paid court petitioners that is being told.
And many who were not paid did it to make their name, similar to the way many pro bono cases are taken on today because it helps make a name.
How many more times can we say that:
Those who control the present, control the past
It is completely and absolutely abhorent the way history not just erases the triumphs of black people but they completely usurp it as well.
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Island Girl:
I doubt Soul is following you from post to post on purpose – you both commonly write on more than on thread and have different opinions. But if in future you think she is, then please email me about it (abagond at gmail).
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“Island Girl:
I doubt Soul is following you from post to post on purpose – you both commonly write on more than on thread and have different opinions. But if in future you think she is, then please email me about it (abagond at gmail).”
It’s fine if she wants to challenge my points in a mature and reasonable way like the respect that she shows to thatchick and others. But with me it gets really petty. “Snarky” for lack of a better word.
“I must?. Really?. I must.
erm nope. I don’t have to.”
“You’re not that bloody special”.
If you read posts addressed to me and then other commenters, there is a noticable difference. As I’ve said, she can post what she wants. I just don’t have to read it. But thanks for the offer.
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Think this is a good time for a break.lol At least until things calm a little and some negativity tapers a bit. Plus, going to be really busy with my business. 🙂
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“Unless and until Dan shows up here, I am enforcing a moratorium on talking about Dan and What He Truly Meant. It has got way out of hand, it is creating bad feelings and derailing the thread. We each have our own interpretation of the Sayings of Dan and have stated them. We will leave it at that for now.”
Thank you Abagond. I agree with you 100%
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Abagond:
“What I mean by “cling to racism” is that very very few whites give up their racism. They would rather be morally and intellectually dishonest than to give it up. It means that much to them.”
YES!!!!! That’s exactly it. In fact, they have a habit of this. Look at their “version of history” or their insistence on teaching “creationism” in the public schools. Even when you refute them with bald facts they will simply reply with:
“This is my faith.
I believe the world was created 10,000 years ago.
I believe that the South was fighting a valiant charge against Northern aggression.
I believe that black people are the descendants of Ham and are therefore required to serve us.
I believe that there is something inherently inferior in black people that results in their subjugation.
Etc. Etc.”
Morons! Faith is the belief in the absence of proof, it is not belief despite contradictory evidence.
But white people are so powerful in America that they can simply refuse to believe the truth collectively and expect us all to kow-tow to their version of reality.
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You got that right.
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The ending of slavery was for economic reasons. The onset of industrialization in the Northern states brought on the Civil War, in effect making it a competition for economic system(agricultural or industrial). Slavery was used to add a ‘moral’ focus and to justify the civil war. The average Northern whites couldn’t have cared less at the time about the slaves. There was rioting in New York , for example when they tried to draft men. In fact, they probably didn’t want slavery extended as it would impede their own employment prospects. So, for the most part, slavery was not abolished due to the majority of white people being against it in the North.
As for abolitionist, yes they did advocate for the abolishment of slavery. Most of them however were quite content to have the former slaves be second class citizens (Reconstruction). In fact the average white person at the time saw the freed slaves as competition to their economic status. Take a cursory look at ‘race laws’ enacted after the Civi War up to the present day.
Some of the female abolitionist for example, went on to become suffragettes. Guess what? Many espoused the idea that as white women, they should get full equality before blacks, black men in particular. So much for solidarity with their black ‘brethern’. The few who espoused full equal rights were few and far between.
I have noticed a pattern with American history. Anytime blacks have gained more rights, there has always been a major war of some sort. Civil War-Abolishment of slavery; WWI-a little bit more rights gained;WWII army desegregated. You get the picture. Most of these right were given begrudgingly, after all you do need cannon and bullet fodder for wars so throw a bone.
Ultimately this all boils down to economics. You cannot have a sound economy if the society is in a state of constant uproar. If it is no longer economically prudent to oppress a group of people, then the system in place at the time will dismantle aspects of it that hinder the economy, not all aspects of their oppression though. It pays to have undercurrents of discontent hovering as it may come in handy at a later time. Racism as it is today is an outgrowth of this. It has just changed its’ ordure.
If it doesn’t benefit whites in some way economically, or their ascendancy, you can best believe that black folk will be getting diddly squat at that particular time. Anyone under the illusion of ‘benevolent’ white folk, or who think most fo them are such, better stop deluding themselves. Moralistic reasons are affixed to societal change because yes, it does tie into whites and their self worth. Otherwise, they would just do things without any justification whatsoever and any naysayer be damned.
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soul Says:
How many more times can we say that:
Those who control the present, control the past.
I can kinda agree with that.
Example: Feminism has taken hold of pu$$y a$$ liberals and conservatives alike in the present and thus feminists (or whatever they call themselves, marxists fems, libertarian fems, womanists etc) are now allowed to teach their bull on history and other world events.
Feminism, such a horrible disease to man and women alike!!! 😦
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erm Vindicator…
I am woman.
Please don’t use my words to rubbish feminism.
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@Herneith
You’re absolutely right about the American civil war.
In fact, the south had a number of “black” regiments.
Also I don’t know why Yanks like Prez Lincoln. He was a well known racist. In the end, Democracy EPIC PHAILS!!!
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@Herneith
Thank you. No doubt, someone will come along and try to disprove what you have said and that would be the epitome of racism.
A complete inability to accept and admit that White people did not free us. We freed our damn selves.
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Sorry soul. I call something as I see it.
Btw feminism and woman are not the same thing.
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I know.
I am a womanist. you mentioned them.
And I know many black women who are feminists and who are not part of the mainstream white feminist movement.
In addition, some of the things advocated by Mainstream feminists.. although self centred have benefited by proxy a broad range of women in general.
Advocating for women suffering domestic violence or against exploitation of women i.e. as sex slaves is NOT and will NEVER be bull.
I respect your right to think otherwise, but I kindly ask that you not use my words to do so. Thanks.
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Vindicator,
You should not confuse true feminism (the belief that women are people of equal worth to men) with the corrupted modern views on it which seem to center on hatred of men. Some modern feminists are fighting for true equality and civil rights. Equal pay for equal work, an end to forced marriage and honor killings, an end to child prostitution, for example.
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But I will admit that I never refer to myself as a “feminist” as for most people it smacks of the old “Women need men like fish need a bicycle types.”
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Hey Abagond,
Igor, the commenter for #s 79 and 80, apparently sent me an email today, with the exact same information listed in the comments. Do you have any idea who this person is? I must’ve gotten it either off my blog or on my blogger profile, not sure. Did anyone else get an email from a guy named “Jo Vent”?
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@thatchick…
Yep, got a long ass rambling ‘white power’ comment from ‘he who shall not be named’ sent it straight to trash where it belongs.
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@soul
Many people advocate what you have just said. They don’t have to believe in a false ideology like feminism.
@Black&German
Nice try with the “true feminism.” To me it sounds exactly like the capitalists, socialists, commies etc saying, “that’s not true enter false ideology.” “It’s been corrupted by whatever lame excuse.”
Black&German you are far too smart to believe in nonsense like that.
I also advocate what you’ve just mentioned as well but I don’t advocate “women’s rights” but “human rights.”
I don’t advocate “equality” (human beings are not or never will be equal) but love and respect for you fellow man (or woman.)
I’ve dealt with feminists and other false ideologists far too much and I can see through them like glass. A pox all of it!!!
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The only “ist” I am is a realist.
Also monarchist.
Long live all monarchs. 🙂 😉
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This blog has re-affirmed to me that white women will use every attempt to undermine racist sexism against black women.
IT has re-affirmed that white people will go on a tangent rather than admit that racism plays a part in a situation
They will also pull out stats and figures created by white people to further dehumanise black people, as evidence that without white people black people could never have achieved whatever it is they achieved.
They will at first insult you, imply you are stupid, attempt to derail the conversation, then make themselves the victim in order to avoid tackling the real root of racism
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@vindicator….
I’ve got absolutely no interest in debating feminism or womanism with you.
I respect your opinion, I disagree with it.
I simply requested you not use my words to defend your position.
thanks.
Peace
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I hope Igor knows his ridiculous ramblings just proved Abagond right lol. Oh its a shame when some people can’t pull their heads out of their own arses long enough to realize when they’re just WRONG! Beware of the glory hogs who think they can do no wrong, its a sign of a diseased mind. Great post Abagond.
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Soul, white people did free you. Blacks have never been able to lead themselves. Blacks don’t have leadership skills. Everything black people own they destroy. Also, evrything blacks own and use on a daily basis was created by whites.
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Black people dislike, no, they wish to see the criminalization of “Hate Facts”:
that is, facts that no one refutes but everyone ignores because of their connotation.
Black people don’t like to discuss hate facts, because they point to uncomfortable truths about The United States of America and the quadrillions that have been spent trying to eradicate the racial gap in learning since The Great Society was launched in the 1960s.
Black people don’t like to discuss hate facts, because they point to much different conclusions on crime in America and the causes of the high rates of murder in the Black community and the incredible epidemic of Black-on-white murder across the America.
Black people consider any conversation about race that paints Black people in a negative light, that also relies heavily on documented and irrefutable facts as definable as a “Hate Fact” debate and thus null and void.
Only disingenuous white liberals may discuss race with Black people, albeit in lukewarm terms and without any mention of “Hate Facts” in the dialogue at all.
“Hate Facts” included the use of gratuitous Black crimes, such as the one in Akron, Ohio, against a white family by scores of Black people, chanting, “This is a Black world.” It is considered a “Hate Fact” to even consider pointing out media double standards in how crime is reported.
Black people are well aware that “Hate Facts” are true and that a Faustian pact between disingenuous white liberals and Black people was made long ago.
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So Abagond:
Good post.
How do you feel about Whites adopting Black children? Since you feel that many Whites have problems acknowledging their own racism, do you believe that cross-racial adoptions should be banned when it comes to Whites adopting Blacks?
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@soul said,
‘Thank you. No doubt, someone will come along and try to disprove what you have said and that would be the epitome of racism.
A complete inability to accept and admit that White people did not free us. We freed our damn selves’.
@Johnny said,
‘Soul, white people did free you. Blacks have never been able to lead themselves. Blacks don’t have leadership skills. Everything black people own they destroy. Also, evrything blacks own and use on a daily basis was created by whites’.
You were bang on Soul! He sounds like a broken record of some of those other racist posters I’ve read on this blog. I’ll give him this though, he is only reiterating what many whites think but don’t verbalize in front of blacks.
@Johnny,
Johnny, yes black people freed themselves. I resent your ignorant implications to the contrary. I am a living testament of this as my ancestors came to Canada after the War of 1812 and just after the Dred Scott decsion of 1855 respectively. The ones who escaped after this decision(Dred Scott), did so with the aid of their black families some of whom were freed slaves. They purchased their own freedom as well as other family members when they could afford to. No, ‘massa’ didn’t free them out of the kindness of his heart even though several of the children were his. As you can imagine they worked like dogs to do so. I say dogs because that is how they were treated at the time. In retrospect, a dog was probably treated better as it was probably a cherished and beloved member of the family.
In fact, most of the slaves who fled did so of their own volition and risked life and limb in the process. White abolitionists did not go to plantations en masse to encourage slaves to run away. They pontificated against slavery from the relative comfort and safety of the Northern states. I know this from oral histories handed down, lived experiences not impersonal stats or some white historian writing from a eurocentric vantage point.
Whatever help they got from whites along the way was via stops on the underground railroad if they took those routes. Oh, and there were black ‘conductors’ on the railroad also. They had to make the decision to do so initially a white person did not tell them to when they were setting out. In the majority of cases, their black families helped facilitate this as iterated earlier in this post. And no, upon their successful escape, they were not given handouts, they had to work and work they did.
The two brothers,one of whom I am descended from, who escaped to Canada, returned and fought in the Civil War. After the Civil War they sought out their family. They couldn’t find them so they returned to Canada and put down roots. It was over a hundred years after these events that descendants on the American side sought out these lost branches of their family, that we were reconciled. This is typical in North American black families, the involuntary rendering of familial ties via selling of family members or escaping slavery etc. The reverbarations of which are still felt today.
As for the branch stemming from the War of 1812, they fought for the British and were given farm land for their efforts. It turns out that the land they were given was highly fertile and subsequently, the black farmers were denuded of of this. That’s another story.
Most of the white people at the time could and didn’t give a piece of fecal matter as to the conditions of the slaves or blacks in general. Yes there was the white abolitionists, but only a small fraction of them viewed blacks as equals. Those were Quakers and Missionary types. The rest could have given a fiddler’s fart as to blacks and in fact were threatened economically by a sudden influx of labour to compete with. They sure as h**** didn’t give two pieces of fecal waste as to their conditions after the war either. Many were enraged by the possibility of blacks being put on an equal footing under the law with them. I am not talking of Southerners either, that was a given.
The Civil War was about an industrialized economy versus an agrarian one, economics and power. In effect a pissing match but on a grand scale. The Slavery question was tagged on to give a moral justification to the war for propaganda purposes. What this propaganda did was negligble as your subsequent history shows;Reconstruction, the onset of Jim Crow, Black laws etc, the list is not exhaustive.
There is a cause and effect for everything. The legacy of slavery is still felt today and can be evinced in these ‘stats’ your referring to. Making statements about blacks being incapable of leading and destroying everything they possess is indicative of the ongoing racist ideation present among many whites in today’s society. I will give you this though, at least you’re honest albeit under the cloak of anonymity of a blog. I wonder, would you spout off this ignorance to a black person’s face? Quite obviously you see blacks as an entity a monolithic presence, as opposed to individuals with distinct personalities in other words human beings. No doubt your views support your sense of superiority which underneath at the core is actually one of inferiority.
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@Herneith:
Wow! I applaud you for setting this Johnny person straight! Btw, thank you for telling us of your family’s historical account. If you don’t mind me asking, are you Canadian?
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Damn straight Herneith! And the last sentence really rings true. The reality is that if you need to constantly dump on someone to make yourself look good then there obviously isn’t anything that great about you in the first place(gasp! could it be that you’re no better then …everybody else?! Oh no!). And sadly its near impossible for many to even accept this as their whole history and sense of being has been in this format. As sad and sometimes comedic as it is, its still a survival tactic and it will stay until the choice to ignore it is taken away.
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Yes, I am a proud 7th generation Black Canadian on my grandmother’s side and 5th generation through my grandfather’s line. My slave ancestors were from Maryland on my grandfather’s side. My grandmother’s people as family lore has it were from the ‘Deep” South.
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@Hernith
You know, racists are so predictable, I never really respond directly to them, but then I forget that sometimes a response is necessary, not for them but for other people to see the counter points.
I’m African, I know the city my parents were born in. towns they lived and the villages they come from.
I know my Grandparents was lucky enough to meet my Great Grandmother and see her in her own env. in the house where she married my Grnadmother.
I am one of many. I know the complete history of how my community was created, down to who planted that famous ‘Iroko’ tree in the village square and why?.
I still use African scientific remedies which Westerners have tried to duplicate to ill effect.
I eat food Westerners have no capacity or knowledge of.
My familial history goes back further than this silly person can fanthom.
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The fact that we kicked their white behinds out of Africa in the late 50’s and 60’s escapes racists notice.
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soul Says:
The fact that we kicked their white behinds out of Africa in the late 50’s and 60’s escapes racists notice.
Actually very few African countries kicked out their European colonialist masters. Most of them were given back because of the European powers were bankrupt after WWII.
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ThatChicNik said:
Hey Abagond,
Igor, the commenter for #s 79 and 80, apparently sent me an email today, with the exact same information listed in the comments. Do you have any idea who this person is? I must’ve gotten it either off my blog or on my blogger profile, not sure. Did anyone else get an email from a guy named “Jo Vent”?
He goes by several names. He does that kind of stuff, spraying us with his plagiarized propaganda like it was disinfectant.
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Patricia Kayden said:
“How do you feel about Whites adopting Black children? Since you feel that many Whites have problems acknowledging their own racism, do you believe that cross-racial adoptions should be banned when it comes to Whites adopting Blacks?”
Whites are capable of bringing up black children all on their own – like the mothers of Lisa Bonet and Halle Berry. It is way better than foster care. But all things being equal I think black parents are better because of what you said.
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Herneith:
Comment #138 (about the War of 1812, etc) was excellent! Thank you!!
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@vindicator.
Nope that was not true and it is the lie told by the colonisers.
How do you explain Britain leaving when Ghana discovered even more reserves of Gold.
They were forced out.
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@soul,
Silly person indeed, clown more like. As a rule I don’t engage with these types of people as they have no interest in learning anything and would just want to reinforce their sense of superiority. My usual response is ‘have a nice day not interested’. You see, I am not here to be abused and I am not going to let some person with a superiority complex, which is in reality an inferiority complex, do so. However, certain things stick in my craw and the notion of the ‘whites freed the slaves; is one of them.
To start, most whites have no real notion of African and African dispora history. What they learned about it, presuming they had any classes in this, was through the prism of eurocentric scholarship for the most part. Maybe some took courses at University who knows. Most whites are simply not interested in any histories save their own. Uncomplimentary historical facts attesting to their brutality is for the most part glossed over or, if irrefutable, rationalized. This is why many of them will resort to quoting crime stats or ‘whites freed the slaves’. Not knowing much if anything about black history or any other racialized people’s history, puts them at a disadvantage, this is why they do this. They cannot debate or engage in conversation as they don’t know what they are talking about for the most part. Personally, if I don’t know what I’m talking about, I shut up and listen initially. I May however counter-check the information given in order to enhance my own knowledge of the subject. That’s not to discount what that person says as they may have invoked or sparked an interest in the subject at hand. I may want to learn more as I enjoy garnering knowledge from different sources, they are doing me a service in this respect.
They will ask you stupid questions as to why black people do this and that? Hello, I don’t know every black person in the world so I cannot provide them with an answer. This happens frequently. This angers many of them when you refuse to give them an answer or give flippant retorts as I usually do. The onus is not on me to give these people an education in blackology. There are many information sources out there that are free use them! If I want to learn about another culture for example, I research it so as to have a cursory understanding of it. I don’t go around asking stupid questions such as why does your group do this, or that. I don’t impute negative behaviours read about in the paper to a whole group for example.
When a white person commits a crime they are reviled as an individual. If a black person does so It’s a reflection of the group’s morals and behaviour. As someone else has said in one of these posts (can’t remember the specific one), choose your battles. You would go insane otherwise. Besides who wants to walk around in a state of anger and hatred towards a group? You are stooping to their level and debasing yourself when you do so. With that being said one must be self aware as to their environment and act accordingly as the situation calls for. I refuse to give in to this type of thinking although it proves to be a chore at times. My usual response and reaction to most of these persons as I previously stated, is ‘have a nice day’ and to keep stepping.
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To Vindicator and Soul:
“@vindicator.
Nope that was not true and it is the lie told by the colonisers.
How do you explain Britain leaving when Ghana discovered even more reserves of Gold.
They were forced out.”
The largest gold mine in Ghana was established in 1907. Were more gold reserves found before independence? Very possible but mining reserves are found all the time. If you have a link describing how the British were forced out.. I would like to read it.
http://www.mining-technology.com/projects/obuasi
The British also gave up Kuwait in 1961 without a fight which was a much bigger plums in terms of mineral wealth.
In Algeria and Zimbabwe, yes, no doubt about it.. Europeans were kicked out.
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@Herneith:
“Yes, I am a proud 7th generation Black Canadian on my grandmother’s side and 5th generation through my grandfather’s line. My slave ancestors were from Maryland on my grandfather’s side. My grandmother’s people as family lore has it were from the ‘Deep” South.”
(I was simply wondering because another fellow Canuck here of Filipino extraction. :))
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@leigh204,
Hello fellow Canuck!
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My question is: When are we as human beings going to stop being so intent on defining who is and who isn’t racist and start doing something to eradicate this ignorant behavior? Yes, racism exists. Let’s do something about it other than reiterating the same points over and over. Racism is a taught behavior. It can be stopped.
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Might as well round this off with a somewhat timely link:
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I saw that too! It is an excellent post.
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I do not know the particulars of Ghana’s independence – that would make a good post – but it is true that the war against Hitler bled Britain dry. All the money it had made from the empire came to America to buy food, planes, bombs, ships, etc. It is partly how America became a superpower after the war, of why it has become the British Empire, part II.
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Clear said:
“Racism is a taught behavior. It can be stopped.”
How?
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hey abagond, this is off topic but i need you to answer this question for me…cause i am having trouble finding a good answer (and i really prefer the answer come from someone who is black)…
why did Jesus condone slavery? How come he didn’t condone it?
I am trying to find understanding in this. I don’t know if you are a christian guy, but i was thinking about slavery, and in the Bible Jesus doesnt condemn it at all. And we all know the christians used the bible to justify racial slavery against blacks later on.
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Soul says:
today we are in a situation where many white men will openly declare black women to be ‘ghetto’ lacking in class, not demure, ugly blah blah blah… and it still doesn’t stop them from fantasizing about us or wanting to have sex with us.
“They will call us unattractive, but they want to have sex with us. dominate us, eroticise us.
They want us, they try to deny it, but the more they do, the more they hate themselves.
So why would anyone be surprised that a white man who is racist still desires black women.”
That is unfortunate. I do believe this to be true, but the most disturbing of it all is white men won’t bring you home to mom & dad, date or marry you.
It’s one thing to deny being attracted (sexually) when they are, compared to denying (romantically, in most cases true) when that is the underlying issue.
I see the romantic (dating/marrying) side of it that is most important, which some white men who are truly devoted (romantically) more often than not, aren’t given that chance because of the epitome of negative experiences.
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“I don’t know if you are a christian guy, but i was thinking about slavery, and in the Bible Jesus doesnt condemn it at all.”
I can’t answer your question but I think you aren’t comparing equal things. Slavery in Jesus’ environment was very different to American Anglo-type slavery.
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Clear said:
“Racism is a taught behavior. It can be stopped.”
abagond said:
“How?”
It starts at home. We must stop teaching this ignorant and self-demeaning behavior to our children. As this issue is infinitely complex, I will respond further when I have more time.
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Azazyel.
What in the world is your point?.
You think not bringing a black woman home to mama is worse than openly condemning them in news papers, on tv, in front of anyone who will listen but then damn near demanding that black women sleep with you.
Look after reading the crap you typed in the the other thread about beat the living black out of you to the point you turn white
you also said:
This is a black website/anti-white website.
Give me some fair game and go to a forum of racist whites and you will live and breed every disgrace that’s thrown in your face, firsthand!
I really don’t even want to address you.
I simply feel sorry for that black woman you are dating.
Azrazyel Says:
Fri 2 Oct 2009 at 18:51:11
That is unfortunate. I do believe this to be true, but the most disturbing of it all is white men won’t bring you home to mom & dad, date or marry you.
It’s one thing to deny being attracted (sexually) when they are, compared to denying (romantically, in most cases true) when that is the underlying issue.
I see the romantic (dating/marrying) side of it that is most important, which some white men who are truly devoted (romantically) more often than not, aren’t given that chance because of the epitome of negative experiences.
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Always Right 101:
Excellent question – about Jesus and slavery. I do not know. I always assumed he was against it because of the Golden Rule – the very reason Lincoln gave.
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@abagond & always right:
I think someone mentioned up post (can’t find it) that it might be comparing apples n a with oranges.
It made me think of this:
what is the difference between a slave and servant?.
One might say (payment) but many servants aren’t paid or effectively paid so little that in reality they are slaves. Apologies for the tangent.
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excuse the typosw.. it bitterly cold where I am and I’m snuggled under a blanket.
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I am adding “skinhead” and “bitch” to the list of moderated words.
“Hell”, “damn” and “ass” are not moderated.
The comment policy is here (and there is a link to it at the top of each page):
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So, it seems everyone is content to remain in the comfortable hell of racism rather than discuss solutions. Solving problems is hard, remaining the status quo is easy.
How very sad.
On a side note: I see a lot of “we” and “them” comments here. WRONG. Rest assured that even though there are others that share in your racists views (which ever side you are on) in the end, it is you and you alone. Grouping an entire demographic of people based on the experiences of a few is narrow minded and for the lack of a better word, stupid.
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@ Clear
Racism is “uncomfortable”?…. I wasn’t sure what you were getting at til I read this line:
“Grouping an entire demographic of people based on the experiences of a few is narrow minded and for the lack of a better word, stupid.”
That is like saying that every person (black, brown, yellow, red, even some whites) who spoke/speaks out against injustices and oppression at the hand of whites for the benefit of whites were/are talking out their ass. As if the resulting gains and losses of those atrocities didn’t have drastic effects on the world today. How can anyone address racism without pointing out racist behavior? Yeah, lets sweep that under the rug and watch that tumor grow while we hold hands, singing Kumbaya and pretend things are balancing out. The fact is, this blog entry made many, many valid points, none of which you challenged. The people who don’t like hearing this are the people who aren’t interested in “solving problems” they just want people to shut up about them, and who will that benefit?
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@ Gen
You’re not understanding what I’m saying. No, racism is not “comfortable”. It is, however, more comfortable for some to remain in a “they’re racist so I’m going to be racist in return” mindset. As I stated before, remaining is the status quo is easy, solving problems is hard. I have never said ignore racism. I advocate rising above it.
Furthermore, in response to your quote of my previous statement, you cannot judge an entire demographic based on the actions of a percentage of said demographic. For instance, the statement “white Americans are racist”. How can this be true unless you personally dealt with every single white person in America?
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@Clear:
What do you propose in regards to eliminating racism?
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I never said it was comfortable, I was actually questioning whether that word was even appropriate to describe racism at all, well maybe to some people but not those who have their lives negatively affected by it.
Your words were eradicate this ignorant behavior, which is funny because the blog entry put it front and center about it being mostly about denial and not “ignorance”. You said its taught behavior, who will teach an ideology to their children in which they don’t believe or feel isn’t in their best interest? Asking whites to look inwards in a realistic and non-self righteous manner is somehow adding to the problem? Abagond put it quite simply, “How?” “Rise above it” is very generic, broad and doesn’t address anything that is at the root of racism. There cannot be an effect without a cause.
On matters like these, technicalities simply don’t count for much and you don’t have to deal with every-single-white-person in America. America’s roots run deep in racism, it’s social structure and mainstream culture testifies to this. The white Americans who actually aren’t racist, are a small minority. Though, you will find many who aren’t klan members or AB but still think white isn’t just part of human diversity but is the best beyond compare, and that is the mentality of a racist and that is what this post questions. Talk about that.
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Wow, I’ve been following this post and wow. Its really gotten interesting. I agee with the majority of soul’s comments… I feel that there is so much for me to write but (got Stats work to do) I just can’t begin to organise my thoughts.
I will say this, alot of white ppl try to shift the blame when it comes to racism…. Its kinda pathetic. The internet gives ppl the safety they would not have in public, which is why there are sooooooo many nutters on YouTube!
I love this blog I visit a few times a week. Keep up the good posts Aba!!
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Herneith and Gen, I have responses for both of you, I just haven’t had time to type them out yet.
I have questions for abagond as well.
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To Abagond:
White people say stuff here that they would never say offline in my hearing.
Well you certainly have your share of drive by/cut&paste troll posters… but I tend to think the bulk of them are coming from racist websites. As for saying stuff on this website that one would not say offline in your hearing, would you place me in that category?
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I am Latin,and I got a black friend,a white friend,and my best friend is mixed asian/latin we are all really good friends never once have we said a racist word to each other,why can’t more people be like us?
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Ricardo
3 things
1.having buddies of a different color doesn’t make someone exempt from being a racist
2. Just because someone has never voiced racist words doesn’t mean they aren’t racist.
3. At the risk of sounding rude, the last line of your comment makes you sound a bit full of yourself.
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@Ricardo
What type of latino are you. Are mestizo, Mulatto, White latino, Afro latino (like me), Asian latino (there are quite a bit of those especially in Brazil.)
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Excellent post Abagond, I’ve been an avid reader of your blog for over a year.
I too believe that white people are inherently racist, am not sure why for the most part they balk at being called such. Its not just white people in the US, as a Southern african born female who went to the hardknock school of apartheid South Africa, even the most liberal minded ones have racist tendencies.
As someone who has dated white men and turned down lots more(and been called a coon, how dare I black woman turn a white man down) i can categorically say that they are not capable of seeing other races as equal. Yes I’m generalization because in my heart of hearts that’s what I’ve come to realise.
In Southern Africa whites have a sense of entitlement that goes with their skin color. The sense that they are above and better than blacks.To actually come to Africa, take from the locals by force and steal and feel deserving of their wealth, and never question the morality of their ill gotten riches.
Dating interracially has also given me insight, I’m equal opportunity and will date someone as long as they respect me.However I’ve been left reeling at ignorance from whites,not sure who is worse, white men or women.
I used to think that I could actually have a long term relationship with a white man, i don’t feel that way anymore.
Also white men that do date/marry black women from experience have a deep seated fear and dislike of black men. They never quite assimilate into black culture the way they almost expect their black woves or girlfriends to naturally fit into theirs.
I almost see it as a tokenism.I see plenty of black women married to white men in london who live in lilywhite areas and have to go to another part of town to be around more ethnic folks. It doesn’t happen the other way around with hubby wanting to be around his wife’s ‘people’ as long as they are family only.
White racism is based on a fear of really competing with people you know deep down you have to degrade, humiliate and ignore to feel better about yourself.
They are reminded though of what happens when they drop the ball or lose their guard that blacks are just as intelligent and equal.
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I live in a multicultural city. I overhear conversations among people of other races all the time. One ever-present theme is race. Whether the conversation be about a woman they just saw, the guy driving some car down the street, or a racial group they just passed by; their fixation on race is obvious. And yes, I hear them insulting other races too. Why? Because they’re racist.
All races are inherently racist. No race is exempt from this. The tribal mentality lives on in every group of people and white societies, today, are the only ones trying to override this mentality.
I mean seriously, you guys are living in the past with that picture of the bus up there, thats what the situation was half a century ago; you should be putting up a picture of Denise Milani and Obama, Chris Rock, etc etc and all the rest; thats reality TODAY because of white society.
So quit trying to pretend that whites are so bad, we all know you guys do the same sh*t you complain about others doing.
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There is a difference between being race conscious and racist. More here:
If you are not white but live in a mostly white country then you cannot forget your race. White people will not let you, despite what you might like to think. That is why people of colour have a “fixation on race”.
It is not some kind of “tribal mentality” living on. The races we know are the self-serving creation of white people to excuse slavery and colonialism.
That picture is a measure of my bitterness. Buses are no longer segregated by race but unfortunately that picture still has more truth to it than it should.
A black president is a huge step forward, but racism is still far from over. It is not the 1950s, but it is hardly post-racial times either.
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MerriMay:
Thanks for delurking! What you say about South Africa is pretty much true in America too: whites hold onto most of their racism even if they marry black. It runs too deep, it is too much a part of who they are.
It is also rare, as far as I can tell, for a white person to assimilate into black culture if they marry black. If I am wrong about that, someone please correct me.
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Abagond, if whites had half the racism you claim you would not see so many minorities living in white countries, being given jobs such as Mrs. Milanis and becoming rich and famous like Will Smith or being PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES.
I mean comon! How can you say that the racism “is too much a part of who they are” and “it runs to deep” when a black man is president and Eric Holder is ATTORNEY GENERAL. Seriously, Abagond, I really am wondering whether your assessment of contemporary white racism is bordering on delusional.
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hmm didn’t know America was a white country !!!!!
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United States to be precise!
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@Rycher:
Are you obsessed with Denise Milani? You manage to mention her name in most of your posts. I am beginning to think you are. What did she do to trigger these tirades?
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Rycher:
Obama may be president, but the black unemployment rate in New York is four times that of whites – when just two years ago it was only twice. About the only thing that can account for it – though the New York Times was not about to say this – is that white managers were cutting blacks to save whites. It was not like blacks suddenly became that much less qualified or something. Or that the Wall Street crash affected those with less education more – hardly.
Also please note that if America was not as black and Hispanic as it is, Obama would have lost.
Obama’s victory, however, is a sign that Jim Crow whites are dying out and that younger whites are less racist: he won the white vote among those born after 1978. Which is wonderful news. But he lost among older whites, the very people who pretty much still run things in America. So even by your measure racism is far from dead.
By the 2040s those younger whites will be running things and meanwhile non-Hispanic whites will no longer be in the majority. So maybe then America will be where you seem to think it already is.
Obama himself cannot wipe away hundreds of years of racism as if by magic. He is only one man even if he is the president.
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Rycher:
Do you consider yourself racist? Why or why not?
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I’m quite sure that your definition of racism would probably vary considerably from mine.
I prefer to consider myself a “racialist” in that I harbor no hatred of other races nor do I wish them any harm. (I also befriend many non-whites). I would just like to see the continuation of traditionally white majority societies given the demographic trends we see today in North America and Europe.
I’m quite sure these demographic trends give many on this board great pleasure and satisfaction. However, if given the opportunity to live in a North America governed by arabs, mexicans, and chinese (and all the rest) who would likely compete for power quite ferociously and with no regard to the racial or cultural sensitivities of others, they might become a little nostalgic of the times when politically correct whites ruled the land and acted as a sort of buffer between the rest. (I know things aren’t exactly peachy between blacks and hispanics in LA and elsewhere, and I dont think that would change with whites becoming a minority)
So given the fact that whites are now a global minority, yes I am most definitely a racist; but mostly likely not according to your definition of one.
Despite being a global minority group, white nations continue to allow mass-immigration from non-white countries on an unprecedented scale and they support them through tax dollars, grant them positions of power, and institute all kinds of racial policies that will ultimately undermine the white’s very ability maintain power in their own nations.
Again, I know many here love the idea of whites losing power in their own countries. This further reinforces the need of whites to be racist.
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For that last line, I don’t mean “racist” in the traditional hateful sense (I’m very much against that); but rather in the racialist sense that acknowledges that whites are a global minority and as such should be morally justified in seeking the continuation of their race, heritage and historical European nations.
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i just want to affirm that the United States is not a country of whites…although it may be debatable in this day and age but if you turn the clocks back a few centuries ago we all know where we were….
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I don’t get the sense that Rycher?(sp) is necessarily racist.
I don’t have to be white to know where he is coming from. Nothing wrong with wanting to preserve one’s own race. I find it funny though that the very rules that whites made up ie segregation, anti miscegenation, the one drop rule in America or South Africa have come back to bite them in the ass because they are dangerously becoming a minority. They’ve made themselves into such an exclusive club that is slowly but surely falling out of favor, i can understand they’re afraid.
If the world, or minorities start to poach on your unblemished territorial bid to rule the world, I can see how Obama pisses them off.
Being Southern African I have noticed that the very whites who turned the other cheek when they were getting rich off the back of blacks are now coming or rather running away to England once they realise they are no longer in charge.
I live in Surbuban Wimbledon, a beautiful part of London made famous by the tennis. This place and the surroundings are now chock full of white South Africans who have fled the backlash of black rule in SA.
They came here hoping to live amongnst their ‘own’, their sympathizers ie other white people.
They sure picked a wrong time as London isn’t a place you get by because of the color of your skin, not exclusively anyway. They realise here they have to compete with blacks, Asians etc for that economic leg up. They are treated as foreigners like everyone else. They can no longer trade on their skin color alone, because the British take care of their own first, and by that I mean the English.
They have little regard for them except as Safari suit wearing rednecks, which is something, the British are the biggest snobs after all.
The racial solidarity they were counting on has turned to dust, and boy these guys are ticked off, lol.
London attracts immigrants the world over and they are paddling like heck like the rest of us. Payback can be a bitch.
So Rycher by your logic, being racist is a form of self preservation. I get it.
Competing on an even keel with other folks is ammo to be racist.
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“had hearmerroids”
Uh, what? How did she even pretend that that had ANYTHING to do with ANYTHING?
This post is pretty much true. I like to think I’ve learned from this blog and my comments aren’t as blin/stupid as they used to be. But yeah – it’s all tied to fear of admitting being wrong.
“Despite being a global minority group, white nations continue to allow mass-immigration from non-white countries on an unprecedented scale and they support them through tax dollars, grant them positions of power, and institute all kinds of racial policies that will ultimately undermine the white’s very ability maintain power in their own nations.”
Uh, WHAT?
Have you ever visited a planet called earth? Because things aren’t like that there.
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abagond, maybe i am naive. I am black female and i always knew that there was racism in this country. I mean I wasn’t an idiot. But youtube changed my total opinion on most white people in America. I never read so many demeaning, racist, outright hostile comments in all my life. There isn’t a day that passes when i don’t read an outright racist comment on youtube. One girl,who was black, did a video discussing racism on youtube and how it was offensive and plain wrong. The comments concerning her video were horrible. One white man suggested finding her and setting her on fire. I prayed for her that day. I notice that people will smile in your face in public especially if blacks are in the majority but will say some of the most evil things behind a computer. Most racist are cowards.
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It’s not racism, it’s reason. You “people” are responsible for most of the crime in this country. You “people” can’t feed or house yourselves without our help. And you stink.
Reinstate slavery.
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Peter Lerman:
You can at least get your facts straight: there are more whites in prison and on welfare than blacks.
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Lerman, you need your head examined. Coming on here spewing hatred and you cannot even get the facts straight . I think it is YOU who needs our HELP this time… cos you are totally clueless.
But I and i am sure lots of other commenters on here wouldn’t want to lift a finger to aid you in getting back your mental stability and losing the hate.. 😦
So you are on your own.
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I was lured in by the most beautiful woman, then proceeded further with several other articles and was pleasantly surprized when I found them to be balanced and reasoned. The article on shakira was very good.
This article is not! It is racist itself and degrades not only the writer but all the posters who agree. Just as you do not want to be defined as sterotype, nor do I and this article does just that.
I do not need to make myself feel better than someone based on color. I am proud of myself for what I HAVE ACCOMPLISHED! I put myself through an additional 8 years of education and obtained my degree. This is not race based, anyone can go to college and do the work to complete it. And for clarification, I started out as poor and in public school.
and for that chick who says she loves double fudge brownies/cake– that is the MOST degrading comment of all! Black people are not food and analagyzing them to food is just wrong in so many ways……
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@kat:
I’m guessing you were referring to me as I’m the one who responded to another poster with that comment. Regarding my love for double fudge cake was NOT an analogy for black people. I didn’t intend for it to sound like that. Things don’t always translate well online it seems.
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I think the problem with white people is the fact their privileged position don’t make them care about minorities. And if they care, not many of them care enough, in a way that goes beyond: “I don’t care if you’re white, black, green or purple, it’s the person that counts”.
And who are white allies? White people who actively fight racism, or someone’s true white friends?
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White allies are white anti-racists.
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Kat:
If most whites are in fact racist, then it is neither racist nor shameful nor is it stereotyping to point it out.
The same person who wrote those other balanced and reasoned posts wrote this one too. You should consider that. I know what I said was harsh, but that does not mean it is not true.
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Here’s a tough question…how do you know when a white person is NOT racist. How do non-racist whites behave as opposed to racist whites. And when I say racist whites, I’m not talking about the obviously racist ones like the white nationalists, but the ones who may not even know it.
If I make a white friend, how can I determine if this white friend is subtly racist?
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@ abagond
White allies are white anti-racists.
Thanks! I’ll search the Internet to find out more about it.
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The top Democrat in the U.S. Senate apologized on Saturday for comments he made about Barack Obama’s race during the 2008 presidential bid and are quoted in a yet-to-be-released book about the campaign.
Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid of Nevada described in private then-Sen. Barack Obama as “light skinned” and “with no Negro dialect, unless he wanted to have one.”
“I deeply regret using such a poor choice of words. I sincerely apologize for offending any and all Americans, especially African-Americans for my improper comments,” Reid said in a statement released after the excerpts were first reported on the Web site of The Atlantic.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100109/ap_on_el_se/us_obama_reid
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He probably wants to save his sorry butt and be free of any controversy.
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Negro dialect? Wow.
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Tulio said:
“If I make a white friend, how can I determine if this white friend is subtly racist?”
Good question, probably a post. Most whites know to avoid the n-word and stuff like that, but because they are largely blind to their racism, it still comes out in other stuff they say.
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@abagond:
I think that would be a good idea for a post, too.
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Tulio, PRESUME your friend is racist. He almost certainly is. That’s not the question. The question is how he deals with that racism.
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‘Negro Dialect??’ lol, that’s a new one, what next??
Well these folks don’t exactly come with a huge warning sign.
Quite shocking coming from a Democrat, a so-called liberal. Goes to show how not to be complacent around some white ‘allies’.
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Liberals do not hold less racist/prejudiced thoughts than conservatives, they just hide it better.
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Obama has already accepted Sen. Reid’s apology.
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Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid of Nevada described in private then-Sen. Barack Obama as “light skinned” and “with no Negro dialect, unless he wanted to have one.
“I deeply regret using such a poor choice of words. I sincerely apologize for offending any and all Americans, especially African-Americans for my improper comments,” Reid said in a statement released after the excerpts were first reported on the Web site of The Atlantic.
Now that’s an understatement of the year.
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@Jade .
He has to, it’s politically expedient. Sen. Reid is an intelligent man and he knew what he said was racist and would likely not receive harsh repercussions. Pres. Obama’s swift acceptance of Sen. Reid’s apology does not blind us to the fact that racism is often just beneath the surface of most white people we encounter.
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I already knew most whites were racist. All this blog was confirmed it.
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All this blog did was confirmed it.
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Avoiding the n-word is nothing. You can avoid any word and still be a hard core racist.
That’s why political correctness fails. It’s more about what’s polite to say and do; not about people’s true feelings, actions and beliefs. Being PC doesn’t mean you are a god human being who respect others; it just means you are polite. Which doesn’t mean anything, anything at all.
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I’m just glad to see that there are still blacks who realize that racism is not dead. It kills me when I hear blacks say get over it or that things are better now. We get a tiny slice of the pie and become complacent or blind to reality. Guards can never be let down. They always try to be “slick” with their comments or say something on the sly. And I feel if any black is present when they do this they need to be checked on the spot! Because they think they can get away with it. I’m proud to be black (thank God) and wouldn’t want the option to be other, but for anyone who has an issue with Blacks, then I have an issue with you and will attack back. Then some want to say I’m wrong. But I stand for something and racism is not it!
Last if you are black and you have friends non-black and they like to use the word “nikka” not cool at all!
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you know personally i wasn’t offended by what harry reid said…the way i saw it was that he was echoing the truth about white america’s views about black people in a not so politically correct way (i excuse old people when they say “negro” because they grew in a different time and besides its just archaic, not necessarily offensive).
i actually hope he doesn’t resign because a republican possibly taking his place is much worse than harry reid.
i fear that during obama’s time the senate and house will become majority republican will bring hell on earth. nothing will get passed or done.
anyways, i am more angry about the republicans wanting to hang him simply because of the trent lott incident (which was racist) back in 2002.
republicans have been the party of racism for the last 60 years or so, who only use slavery as their argument for being for black rights (ever notice they can never seem to come up with recent events as “proof” of not being anti-black?) trying to take claim for something they never did for a party that was different from todays.
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i have mixed feelings about political correctness…i think by having it, we have kind of weakened ourselves and get offended as a society too easily over things (not necessarily race issues but any issues in society).
being pc hides a person’s true colors and only prolongs the inevitable.
besides the one thing i always hated about pc is that you have different people who get upset over words.
such as some people will lecture you if you DON’T say african american, while others will tell you just use “black”…i don’t have the energy to figure out and remember what someone wants to be called…
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Hey folks, in reading this blog I notice many of you use the same stereotypical language when you talk about whites, as if we are some kind of unified black-hating mob. I am white and I definitely agree that racism still exists (it never went away). The trouble is, folks like myself have the best intentions to treat EVERYONE the same, i.e., with respect and dignity no matter what their race, age, sexual preference, weight, legal status, religion, political orientation, and any other way one could describe differences between people. The thing is, everybody is a human being and worthy of the same respect in all the ways people relate to one another. I think alot of things that are interpreted by one person as “racism” may be a matter of the sensitivity of that person to how personal tastes differ. So alot of the “excuses” people use actually have some basis in fact. If one was raised ina northern town in the Wisconsin woods, chances are high that you would not have much experience relating to cultures other than the white backwoods hick type (I am deliberately using a stereotype here just to be facetious). When such a person encounters a radically different culture (or subculture?) then there is going to be some awkwardness. I don’t think it is right to immediately assume that this person is possessed by hatred of said subculture, but if they do not like it then that should not bother anyone within that culture. (I am not a particular fan of hip-hop style music, but htat does not mean that I hate rap-artists. That I di not like that music should not make me offensive to the larger hip-hop or rapper community, right? Live and let live is not too far from the ideal, I think.)However the interpretation of interpersonal communication cues as racist might just as much be a lack of sensitivity of the offended person about the limited diversity of the offenders background. The “backwoods hick fella” might not know how NOT to express his legitimate dislike of rap music when he is exposed to a loud sample of it when driving through the neighborhood. It comes down to basic human interpersonal relating. I mean, if he says, “turn that shit down” that is just a poor way of talking to someone. Not necessarily racial, just frickin’ rude. He might say the same thing if he was exposed to a loud passage of Mozart. Again, not racist. Now that is a pretty blatant example. But suppose we’re talking about physical attributes that are attractive to white men. Well, just because there are statistically very few interracial marriages between white men and black women does not mean white men are racist in general. Maybe black women don’t like white guys. Some do. And there’s one more thing: the human being’s need to mentally classify things in order to create order out of a complicated array of observations. Speaking in generalities is sort of a natural thing to do. I think we could all just use some basic education about how to relate to others who do not subscribe to our individual points of view or preferences or culture or whatever. Peace out.
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We are all humans. People. Flesh and Blood. Life and Death ain’t a black and white thing. Unity ain’t a black and white thing. Beauty ain’t a black and white thing.
Sweet Tea – wish I could have gotten to know you better. I think we would have hit it off.
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Jason:
1. I deleted your long comment on Republicans and charitable donations. That was way off topic. If you want to make a short statement and provide a link for those who are curious or doubtful, that is fine. But if you are going to rant, please rant on-topic.
2. In the post I talk about the question of maybe whites just do not know better. But reading your comment you would think I had never even thought of that possibility. It is like you did not even read the post. It is like you are spamming us with your opinions. That is the feeling I get.
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Jason,
Although you claim to be a WP who treats “EVERYONE the same”, you need to do a better job of reading and ACCURATELY comprehending the underlying message of the comments being made by most of the Black commenters on this blog.
The tone of your comments is extremely patronizing (as you accuse Black commenters of “speaking in generalities”) and insinuates that BP on this blog KNOW NOTHING about the often NEGATIVE, ANTI-BLACK attitudes/actions SOME WP in America demonstrate towards them. I especially found this to be the case in the comments you made about why there are statistically fewer interracial marriages between WM and BW. You claimed to feel that fewer WM/BW IRR marriages “does not mean WM are racist in general. Maybe black women don’t like white guys.”
My ACTUAL LIFE EXPERIENCE as a BW in America who is/has always been open to IRR’s with WM but who has personally experienced ANTI-BW RACISM/ANTI-BW COWARDICE from MANY WM in these IRR’S, leads me to draw a different conclusion.
Please keep in mind that, due to ANTI-BLACK RACISM, the life experience of a WP in American society is NOT IDENTICAL to the life experience of a BP in American society REGARDLESS of whether the BP or WP treats EVERYONE AS AN INDIVIDUAL HUMAN BEING.
Sadly, ANTI-BLACK RACISM is still a problem in America that needs to be agressively challenged and abagond provides and excellent forum for these discussions.
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Yeah. I used to think that they were clueless. They aren’t. Many are very aware of their whiteness and try to sport it off as “neutral”.
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laromana, Thanks for the comment. I certainly have no basis upon which to disagree with your statement: “Please keep in mind that, due to ANTI-BLACK RACISM, the life experience of a WP in American society is NOT IDENTICAL to the life experience of a BP in American society REGARDLESS of whether the BP or WP treats EVERYONE AS AN INDIVIDUAL HUMAN BEING. ”
So maybe I am just an ignorant WP who means well but just does not understand what it is like to be a BP.
I realize too that posting here is a waste of time. I guess I’ll just read. people comment back saying I don’t know how to read, etc. Lots of personal insults that are counterproductive. Have a nice life. As long as the first thing out of one’s mouth is an insult, nothing will ever be solved.
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Hey Natasha,
when I spoke about generalities I meant speaking about one race vs. another, i.e., “Whites do this” or “Blacks do that”. When any Black person says “Whites think this way…” then that is the type of generalizing I meant. When I wrote about the whole thing about a human being’s general need to classify things in order ot understand or create order out of a complex array of data or information in general, I am not at all bring race into it. Race has nothing to do with it. Also, I wasn’t saying that I think it is a problem, either. Just an idea to consider.
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Jason says,
I realize too that posting here is a waste of time. I guess I’ll just read. people comment back saying I don’t know how to read, etc. Lots of personal insults that are counterproductive. Have a nice life. As long as the first thing out of one’s mouth is an insult, nothing will ever be solved.
laromana says,
I suppose if you interpret BP explaining what it’s like to be a BP in America as an “insult” to you then it is “couterproductive” for you to participate in abagond’s site and with this attitude you’re correct to conclude that “nothing will ever be solved”. You have a nice life, too.
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PS. Sorry about the RANTING post about Democrats and Republicans.
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Is this blog only for black people?
It is very interesting to read.
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I don’t see this as a blog for black people only. The fact it has more black visitors (who are willing to comment) proves that not many white people are interested in the discussion about this site’s main topics (and those are… race and thick women?)
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(…about this site’s main topics (and those are… race and thick women?)
lol. That’s funny. I thought that too at first.
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I like islandgirl already.
She seems like she has a sense of humor at least.
I think that is a sign of intelligence.
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@ islandgirl
(…about this site’s main topics (and those are… race and thick women?)
lol. That’s funny. I thought that too at first.
Well, I just went with Abagond’s “About” page. 😉
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laromana,
I would really like to learn about what it is like to be a Black person in America. I don’t ask anyone to post to make white people comfortable. instead of just thinking about me as a white person, how a but just a person. If I misinterpret what a person on the site says, i appreciate it when they inform me so in a civil manner. Expecting civility is not IMO an “attitude.”
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My ACTUAL LIFE EXPERIENCE as a BW in America who is/has always been open to IRR’s with WM but who has personally experienced ANTI-BW RACISM/ANTI-BW COWARDICE from MANY WM in these IRR’S, leads me to draw a different conclusion.
Now THIS is definitely interesting. In terms of IRR’s what sort of “ANTI-BW RACISM/ANTI-BW COWARDICE from MANY WM” did you experience?
This is so helpful for me to read. Reading of your actual life experience (i.e., true life examples of WP behavior) is the only way WP can ever hope to “get it.” (I don’t think we (WP) can ever truly understand it, but we can hopefully get a SENSE of what being a BP is like.) That life experience is so very foreign (at least to me, for sure) that it is becoming clear that I have no idea how WP behavior is truly perceived. (OK folks, now please don’t slam me by saying “yeah, what an idiot this white guy is,” etc. That is the type of insult i was originally referring to).
Thanks for sharing, if you decide to.
Another thing – could anyone here recommend any books that are accurate accounts of actual experiences? (Modern as well as from 20th century). THANKS
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WOW. All I can say after reading multiple articles on this site, which I found quite by accident, as well as tons and tons of posts, replies and opinions is that I am glad that I don’t really know anyone like any of you, or at least everyone that is in my life is not of the same opinion regardless of who they are. I am …. saddened….? surprised? I don’t really know to be perfectly honest. I never really thought that racism was gone. That would be rather naive or ridiculous to think that when there are plenty of examples. With that being said I guess why I really don’t know how to feel about what I’ve read is because I have never seen or even read such broad generalizations by so many people on any side of this issue/these issues. It amazes me that the author, and most of the posts here generalize about one race, while during their “enlightenment” they are doing the exact thing that they are complaining about, or rationalizing their belief system upon.
Then come the other folks from the other side of the fence where the grass is greener, for the most part, and disgust me by always getting in that one shot about how their best friend is black, or they are in a mixed relationship, or some such nonsense…. those posts make me cringe. They either try to claim to understand things, or make excuses, or as mentioned, empathize due to their connection due to their friendship with said person, or relationship or guilt. They must always point out their ethnicity as well, usually, as sex.
They make me cringe about as much as a lot of the junk that is in the mainstream and part of our, meaning the human race, our culture these days whether they are ridiculous shows, commercials, products, songs or “news” stories. Yes, quotes around news because really, there is no more real news. There are scandals and there is dirty laundry. There is an awful lot of stories showing too many of the same, sad stereotypes and the media is all too happy to perpetuate anything they can to keep folks at each other, no matter if it’s race on race, sexual orientation on sexual orientation or religion on religion.
The only thing that I know for certain is that I am who I am. I have, like too many others, struggled against breeding, environment and whatnot to become who I am today. I do personally judge people on how they present themselves to me, and how I am treated in return. I respect if respected, trust if I am trusted and treat people based upon how their history with me continues to write itself. The people that I chose to include in my life know that I am caring, honest and loving. They also know that once the trust is gone, it is gone for good.
I keep going and keep meeting new and interesting people and making new friends, and sharing myself with others, and welcoming new experiences and ideas into my life to gain a wider view of the world. All I can do is be myself, continue to love, laugh, live, cry and grow with my fellow beings. I truly wish that none of you, no matter who you were or are had had the experiences you did that were so painful, but like it or not, they are part of the reason we are who we are. You would not be you without them. Good or bad, they are you and you are part of the human experience. I wish that more people would just be real, and open and maybe we could really make a difference. I guess maybe that’s why I have found this. Because people here are, even if it is masked to a certain degree by internet anonymity, it is still showing how a group of people feel… meaning everyone that I’ve seen post here.
So, why post? Maybe it’s because I’m up making sure no severe weather is hitting me, due to another tornado that is within 15 miles from here at 4am and I needed to just talk to someone after seeing what I’ve seen.
Much love to everyone, and yes, it is sincere. Light up the darkness, spread peace and love, live life and please don’t generalize. It is true, a lot of people have their own agendas, and that includes any member of any race, group or whatever. Make up your own mind and only this way can movement or growth happen. If you chose to keep your mind closed, nothing will change, and things will continue to stay stagnant. By the same token, don’t be naive… how far can you open your mind before your brains fall out? Apologists have no free will either.
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This is true liberty.
I love this blog.
Keep it up Abagond!
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I’m a white man who dated a black woman for a few years. I loved her, found myself sacrificing much of my life for her, thinking about kids, dealing with the family and forgetting how the rest of the world might see us..
But a lot of what you say still rings true to me. I still wonder how deep it goes…at times I’m still proud of it, being able to be superior, to have at least that much be true about the world.
Keep saying true things…
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Haha one more reason to move to Europe when I’m older.
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Much of white racism stems from a white superiority complex, which breeds arrogance and ignorance.
@Soul, your experience reminds me of my own with my [white friends] almost perfectly. I spend much of my high school days listening to white friends tell me to wear my hair in an Afro, trying to convince me that I was from a ghetto (but was lying about it), and insisting that I was speaking Ebonics when I wasn’t.
Sadly, whites in general, see blacks as a collective individual of walking stereotypes made for their amusement.
A black person who doesn’t fit the stereotype confuses them. Such a person is either an anomaly or simply dismissed.
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Brace yourself. I’m a white girl living in a suburb of glorious Memphis…originally from a NOT picturesque part of Miami. I don’t know how I stumbled upon your blog here, but it’s been the best boost today…
Tonight after work I attended an open house at the local high school my oldest will attend next year…and I could only stomach a few minutes of the crowd before I walked out.
My background for your dissection: I was raised by my mom/grandmother in an apartment in a predominantly not-white area but I have no complaints…I was a happy kid. My mom’s now passed and my elderly grandmother lives with ME along with my 2 white kids. Well, one is clearly white, and the other looks like a long lost DeBarge sibling…which is hilarious b/c the white kids around here say all these really racist things to her–yet she’s white.
Anyway–
In the last 10 years after a major illness, I found myself on public assistance, kids had free lunches with all of the associated ridicule (since that’s a BLACK practice after all)…I was a failure amongst my own kind and for SURE the lone white face in this areas ultra crowded food stamps office 75% of the times I went. And I’m talking to the point that little boys and girls who had much darker skin crowded around my lilly white blonde little girl just to touch her hair.
I learned 1st hand back then why so many folks get stuck in the system. And I got treated like total dog-$hit by white folks–like at the store w/my EBT card, at schools–signing up for the free stuff…it was hard.
I since earned my college degree but I couldn’t afford to work before I did — and until my kids got old enough to leave alone. If I have to explain how minimum wage doesn’t cover child care and still leave a person with anything to live off of…then consider yourself fortunate. Add to that—I would have lost my benefits if I started working, so again, hard and humbling times for a while.
After college I went to work for the Corporate Office of a massive corp. I wear nice clothes I get for cheap on eBay and have awesome knock off bags from the flea market, so I basically look the part of your average 30 something-white member of management. I know for a fact that none of my white coworkers assume that just b/c I’m a single mom that I grew up in the ghetto or was one of THOSE people on food stamps, “abusing” the system.
I live in the cheapest neighborhood out away from the central part of the city so that I can send “Chico” -the aforementioned, mixed-looking white child, and “Goldielocks” to a school that has AIR CONDITIONING, HEAT…and BOOKS – since our fine city public schools don’t offer such luxuries. It’s a mostly white subdivision I’m in…so what’s my beef??
Tonight at that high school…my festering hatred for single white mothers and their rotten kids got to me BAD. Those weak, white women who must have been so spoiled/privileged themselves that they don’t beat their kids a$$es for anything, ever. (Did y’all know it’s frowned upon amongst white folks to spank your kids as opposed to “reasoning” with little Johnnie?)…yeah.
These useless women and their emo-goth freaks that you see shooting up their classmates on TV…who get everything they want while they kill little animals in my neighborhood, sniff fumes from things in their garage, and whip up on girls, cut themselves for attention, and vandalize everything for fun…all with no ramifications. except the “now Johnny dont DO that!”.
I walked out of the orientation tonight b/c I couldn’t hear a flippin’ word from any of the speakers over all of these same folks. It saddens me to think that I am lumped in as “one of them”….ever.
For record, I didn’t vote for Obama, and I’ve never dated a black man, ..kissed one and got close but I really only get attention from white males, so pick from what I can get when I have the time. I like rap and R/B (as well as classic rock) but I don’t talk like Eminem and don’t try to dress like Beyonce. I’m nondescript. I mind my own business.
And I’m stuck, me and this family. I can’t move to the not-white section of town, b/c those schools stink and the cops only work in the better tax base from what I hear on the news. Meanwhile I am sickened to send to the public school here b/c white teenagers and their parents are CRAZY–they literally scare me.
Single white woman are likely raising a generation of future serial killers. So I’m frustrated tonight b/c I still don’t know what the best thing is to do. And literally, now I’m lost about the school stuff b/c I couldn’t hear a thing tonight. GRRR!
Meanwhile, I am FAIR to my darker employees…and everyone else too. With regard specifically to my melanin-blessed coworkers, I make sure that I am as far from whigger as my white counterparts expect me to sound and act when I am seen (GASP) sharing a meal or socializing with “THEM”. I mean—Why would my award winning, cum laude, pasty white Corporate self chose to do that unless I was trying to find my Mandingo, or was surely “white trash?” Of course, those onlookers only ever whisper and do the usual white-passive aggressive thing in my face.
In conclusion, no black folks saved my life…nor did any try to take it. I did have one of my kids get a tooth knocked out by a white kid on the bus last year, but that’s beside the point…unless the point is about which race cost me 1500 that I didn’t have last year.
I’m not in denial that there is a real disparity in the healthcare and education realms…and I’m mostly sure nothing I can say or do would make any major change in my local scene…especially when these white freaks of nature out where I live have the nerve to point at my white child and call her a (insert n-word I’m never allowed to say.) Even degenerate white kids still think they are better than anyone who isn’t white. You can’t change the minds of people who don’t have minds to begin with.
So down with white people…hahaha! Go ahead and trash my kind…we do largely suck. To make matters worse, any and all problems are dismissed with a $hit eating grin and a blanket cliche’. …and nobody can get better who doesn’t admit they have a problem.
Maybe I should move to some other country. I’m becoming such a hater! LOL! Thanx for the laughs…and I welcome any questions or scrutiny. Ille go ahead and offer that my wet hair smells nothing like my dog does after it’s bath…LMBO!!!!
Peace to all.
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@Mizcalamity
……..oooookaaaay……
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Miz Calamity:
Wow.
What a wonderful, beautiful, lovely comment! Thank you so much!! It was so good that I just googled it to make sure it was not plagiarized from somewhere.
You are most certainly NOT the kind of white person I am talking about in this post – or in any of my posts. So please do not take any of them personally (I doubt you will).
You are like how white people SHOULD be and white liberals THINK they are (but are not) – and how, at one point, I ASSUMED maybe 30% of white people were like (but now think it is well south of 5%). OMG.
Again, thank you.
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Abagond,
You sure like your percentages, don’t you? LOL.
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Abagond,
Thanx for your kind words. I think you are doing good things here…and though I lack the audacity to claim I know what it’s like to be discounted for the color of my skin, I have been discounted–and it would have helped if I had a forum to express my feelings back then.
To that end…I won’t stick around after today, b/c sometimes the nicest thing a person can do—is shut up and let folks be. Last night, I just wanted to throw my experience into the mix. I was aggravated. Finding this post made me feel better. The circle’s pretty much complete.
I know full and well that I have to go back amongst these glass-house-living, stone-throwers with their spoiled little George W’s in the making. But at least I’m not crazy for thinking that on average, “we” are largely fake, for SURE transparent, and at times downright pathetic.
For record-personally, I can’t stand ANY dishonest/hurtful people, black, white, Asian, Hispanic…I’m an equal opportunity hater. LOL!
So in parting, every once in a while I invite you all to keep in mind there are some white people who see and can admit the ugly truth…but you don’t hear us when we aren’t trying to emulate your diction or dress, and you don’t see us when we aren’t trying to validate ourselves by toting a black lover or friend around like an accessory.
Some of us are just stuck watching the dynamics…shaking our heads with the same disgust you feel…and while we aren’t subject to the same prejudices…we know that those prejudices are alive and very real…and that white washing them doesn’t make them go away.
There are whites too who have to drag themselves out of bed and put on that fake just to feed our families and keep the lights on. It’s a part of life…it sucks, but it is what it is…for now.
I wish everyone peace—and we say down here in the South—have a blessed day!
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@Mizcalamity
I do hope you participate in some of the future discussions your post had me a little speechless lol so that’s all I wrote.
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Miz Calamity:
Thanks for commenting. I do hope you come back sometime.
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I couldn’t have written it better myself. Whites live in this world where they think they deserve all the power and privilege thay gained from the destruction of people of color. It’s so ridiculous, it’s pathetic.
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Greetings all!
I said I wouldn’t stick my nose into where it doesn’t belong after my big looooong rant – but I get notices in my email when when comments are posted…So while I haven’t revisted in some time (as promised)…I’m up late–the email came thru, and here I am.
I’m still white by the way.
Anyhow, I have found everybody a PERFECT example of the demonic white-underage-boy-scum that I described in my postings above. Mind u, I don’t watch the biased, garbage- filled news, so it takes me a while to find out things sometimes. However, I just recently learned of an even WORSE subculture of freaks than the emo-goth mutants you see out and about. After you read my post here, brace yourself…and then if you think your constitution can handle it…google Syko Sam of Farmville, VA. O-M-G.
The story I read first came from a cbs5 dot com crime report. Allow me to share the following with you from the story (talking about when an unsuspecting truck driver picked up a hitchhiker who was this Syko Sam): “…As the two men made small talk, the truck driver was almost overwhelmed by an odor, a stench he later concluded was that of rotting flesh. ‘He stunk like the devil,’ he said. That young man, an aspiring rapper who wrote macabre lyrics about the thrill of killing people, is now suspected in the slayings of four people whose bludgeoned bodies were found in a home in a Virginia town.”
SO THERE U HAVE IT! An interview with a man who gave the white-devil a ride. And yeah–I was curious about this “horrorcore” genre of so-called “rap” that Syko Sam a-hole was providing to his fellow mutants. Another O-M-G. Matter of fact, OMFG! (Pardon my french acronyms.)
What is WRONG with people? This stuff nullifies every bad thing EVER said about N.W.A’s message for the po-lice. At least THAT was rooted in anger toward what everyone in the free world knows is totally unfair treatment of minorities by the justice system. This horrorcore stuff is simply rooted in satanic, nightmare-grade, ridiculousness!
Really, I can provide you with umpteen, nearly indisputable come-backs (with examples–and sometimes even statistics) to negative comments made about the black community–about the white community…but tonight I will leave you with this whopper…b/c my posts are way to long to begin with, and this cr@p speaks for itself.
I have long FELT that underage white, male-people caused way more problems for others than any other demographic in our country, but now I see that they are committing way more twisted and heinous crimes when they do.
And I thought that flesh-eating, serial killing, and/or child-molesting behavior was mostly for white males OVER the age of 21. Silly me.
SO happy my white, girl-children are approaching dating age.
They have SUCH a WONDERFUL pool to chose from. 😦
That truck driver should have just run over that dirty-looking little pr!ck. And now for the disclaimer: That’s just my opinion…and I’m sticking to it.
Peace and good health to all.
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Interpretation of “…rooted in anger toward what everyone in the free world knows is totally unfair treatment of minorities by the justice system..”
White people may try to look shocked when complaints arise about how certain populations are easily/quickly locked up for what are usually stiffer sentences, but I’lle let u in on a little secret: white people know the deal…white people are the one’s doing it…so it’s impossible to not know. Surprise, surprise — the gaping mouths and taken-abackedness aren’t genuine.
The victims know, and the do-ers know…ergo–I.M.O, everyone in the free world knows the truth.
And yes, I did just spent about 4 hours reading a ton of posts on this blog. Abagond–thank you again for your entertaining, enlightening, and otherwise genius creation, here. 🙂
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Im still waiting on “clear’s” responds
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Abagond
Thank you so much. You have made me a better person. I don’t think I’ll ever be able to completely understand what it’s like to be black, but your writings have made an impression on me. After I researched and looked up interesting things you wrote about, I realized it was all true. I always thought racism was this visible outward thing that the KKK does at their annual meetings. I realize racism can take on a much more subtle passive form. I will strive for a more humane society. You have opened my eyes to racism in society. Your words have not fell on deaf ears.
–moving on.
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Abagond,
Of course “white” people are going to speak more freely here. But so do blacks, most of what the AA, BP. POC say here they dont say to WP in public either. You are being quite hipocritical. While I do agree that Racism exist. I just dont see much constructive work being done by anyone. if whites work or speak out BP complain, if wp are quite BP complain, it is a lose lose position.
I would truly like to see progress, but I just cant see it when the only process is dog WP. I t just wont work. Espcially, if you marginalize a whole group, the other way around.
People lilke me who are definitely white, who grew up in the south, working poor, marginalized politically, economically and socially can sympathize but are not allowed to share simili and thefore sympathy in the process. But because our plight is dismissed we feel no strong desire to fight for BP, because there is no common ground to be had.
If tell you my wife is AA and my children are mixed. I will be dismissed, if i tell you I am all white and all my family is I am dismissed.
In truth there is huge common ground but BP and WP of that class are just not willing to accept it. So we are stuck. And yes I know it is a huge problem in the social class i grew up in. Working class poor WP do not feel a true commonn ground with BP because they have been taught racism and racist view. but BP have also been taught racist views and so there is no trust in the groups that should find some common ground. I dont have the answer.
Just in the very way you write shows that. I honestly say I cannot accept “white guilt” I dont have the ability. I can empathise but cannot feel guilt. I only feel guilt for what I do and dont do, not for what others do or dont do.
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MY GOODNESS I HAVE THOUGHT THIS ALL ALONG “LISTEN PLEASE ” Abagond respond to Me!!! Listen, imagine if you are a poor thug who is own the bottom in your society or family(caucasions and the caucasion family) and their was another family who was doing well(Africans in African(around the 16th to 18 century)), NOW lets say that for a causion guy life isn’t worth living anyway and all you have been might is right lets say thats the case then NOTHING ABSOLUTELY NOTHING is off limits and remember you dont care about anything anyways, now you want to stop being on the bottom but the you have no money so you want to STEAL money from people , since you have none in the first place so the other way to get money is to take it from someone else soooooooooooo lets say tables have turned you meet the nice pretty wealthier middle class African who shares ,and teaches, and trades with you, now you are somebody still not above anyone but you now have something of your own and you but guns and knives, your family(caucasion family) sees this and respects you a “lower” caucasion more, now you know what it is like to be liked for being having something , nooooow you go back to Africa still thought with your thuggish, bad mentally of caucasion and not caring about other people and kidnap an African against their will (later saying that some mysterious other African did it to “LATER” clear you conscience but you don’t now since you don’t care what people think about this action ALL you care about is money not morals), back to the story, you have this African against their will and now …
“!!!IMPORTANT PART!!!” this African, JUST THIS African is the reason you are worth something even though you weren’t worth anything before, all of you hatred, pity, and self-loathing you caucasion have for yourself is gone, and you know what else EVEN class is gone because you have Africans now, and only skin color matters in the family as everyone has pale skin, so guess who doesn’t fit and guess who is on the bottom in this scenario, and guess who gets blamed for everything, NOW your still not out of the woods because this one African has brought such FAME and wealth that you the (caucasion) could have never acquired own your own, you don’t want to go back on the bottom so you do the thing that brought you wealth you want more so you get more, and more, and more until soon you are no longer caring about who you have hurt or what you had to do to get that wealth in the first place you just care about your status, and you status is satisfactory, but you (caucasion) will NEVER FORGET THAT AFRICAN IS WORTH MORE TO YOU THAN EVEN YOU ARE TO YOURSELF, YOU NEVER FORGET THAT, BECAUSE BEFORE THAT AFRICAN YOU HAD NOTHING, YOU WERE NOTHING, YOUR LIFE AND CHILDREN WAS WORTH NOTHING, BUT NOW WITH THAT AFRICAN (whom you forced to be with whom you need no matter how many time now you tell yourself you would have made it without them, whom civilized you not the other way around) YOU ARE WORTH SOME BUT ONLY WITH THE AFRICAN BECAUSE WITHOUT THAT AFRICAN YOU WOULD BE WORTH NOTHING, BUT WITH THE AFRICAN YOU ARE WORTH MORE THAT YOU EVEN THINK YOUR WORTH, AND YOU REMEMBER AND ALWAYS REMEMBER THIS IMPORTANT PIECE OF INFORMATIVE THAT THE AFRICAN IS WORTH MORE THAN YOU THE AFRICAN WAS WORTH MORE THAN YOU BEFORE YOU MEET THEM THEIR WORTH TO YOU IS MORE THAN YOUR WORTH TO THEM TO THE YOUR NOT WORTH ANYTHING, BECAUSE THEY DON’T NEED YOU. The human math AFRICAN=2| caucasion=0
AFRICAN W/caucasion=1 1/2 | caucasion w/AFRICAN=1/2.
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Wow…very interesting posts…except for the last one from the person with all the letters in his/her name, which I honestly had neither the patience nor the will to decipher. I am so glad I found this site. Not sure exactly what I want to say, except that most of the postings here are so much more sophisticated and erudite than a lot of the dreck people post on the internet nowadays…except for some of the rantings posted by the extremely pale…if you get my drift…I was raised to be racist in a racist society….and for many years, while formally and on the surface eschewing the racism I was raised in and with; it was still there. I have benefitted from white priviledge. I know this clearly. Were I a person of color, I would have a prison record. Instead I teach high school English, and actually should be grading essays from my juniors. I had assigned a writing assignment from our Civil Disobedience unit. I gave them several options…some to write generically, and others to speak from personal experience. I have only graded one section completely (35 students: we load ’em up here in california…it is only our future here, right?) Clearly, I will be up late tonight. Some of their essays moved me to tears. I love these kids so much, they are so incredibly beautiful and many wrote very eloquently about experiences I would have never imagined. For myself, I am a single mother and have been in recovery since August of 1987. I have many issues that I won’t even begin to go into here, but for me, using drugs was a way to get through the pain of living. I believe that it was Langston Hughes who said (and I paraphrase) that race is only unimportant amonst the angels (the highes of evolved souls) and the dregs of society. (I will raise my hand to be recognised as a member of the latter group in the eyes of society.) For a recovering addict who works the 12 steps, racism can cost one’s life. The important thing is the recovering addict who will help you stay clean…certainly in early recovery for sure. I have 3 children whom I love more than anything on this earth. All three are mixed (the first 2 are Japanese/Caucasian and my baby is black). I am not color blind. Don’t ever want to be. I love my children dearly. They are physically 3 of the most beautiful people on this planet and their skin color, eye shape and color, hair, body shape and everything else about them are beautiful aspects of who they are. I would not change any of them. I teach in a very multi-cultural school, in a very multiu-cultural city. When I look at my students, I see reflected in their faces the faces of my children and my beloved nieces and nephews (Jewish, Caucasian, Mexican/Caucasian). I do not know what it is to be a person of color. I do know what it is to love a child and have her come home crying that she has been called the “n” word, that kids won’t play with her because of her color, that she is a “slave” and a lot of other ignorant crap; and to want to go out with a baseball bat and smash heads in. My son (second child) was also targeted for racsit comments, but nowhere near the way my youingest was. My eldest, not so much…possibly because she has quite a mouth on her, and perhaps because of the racial mystyique that can sometimes attach itself to beautiful Asian women by the the dominant culture. (Yeah…they are real submissive…NOT!!!) I was on welfare while I got my teaching credential, and was reported to the CPS for child abuse at least 5 times while my youngest was growing up. Each time, the social worker was amazed when she met me. The first time, I did not get it, then I realised that as a recovering addict on welfare with a black child: on the surface when they came to grill me and perhaps remove my child, they expected a black woman they could bully, not a well-educated mouthy Caucasian who would be holding them responsible for any bad thing that might have happened to her kid in the system. Not sure where I am going with all this…maybe it is just an avoidance techniques…grading awaits…anyhow, I do enjoy your blog and most of the comments I see here. Guess that’s all for now…
Peace, out…
(I want to give my brothers one of the Barbara Bush clueless white folks award…)
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I live in (one of) the most whitest small towns in South Carolina, and it’s the kind of whiteness that hides behind smiling faces. I try not to let it bother me that much, but it’s so strong, you can sense it. In fact in 8th grade my Social Studies teacher told me this is a racist town and he’s a white man.
One of main beefs I have with this town is its newspaper. (I had a beef with white-owned news media for a few years.) As expected any crime committed by a black person is front page news, and the last two weeks has been field day for them.
I learned a few years ago that white-owned media (news, entertainment) will mostly show negative stereotypes of POC more often than they will show anything positive…IF they show anything positive outside stereotypes.
People, including family members, told me once that I should trust the news in regards to crime. The thing is how can I trust the news when the news presents a narrow view of the world? Reading the news in my town, one would think that black people and black neighborhoods are war zones because something’s wrong with them, and the safest neighborhoods are lilly white because white people are smarter and peaceful. Oh sure, white people make mistakes, but overall, they’re basically good, competent, and non-threatening. SMDH.
If my hair was long enough, I would be pulling it out in extreme frustration.
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LMAO. How strange! I do not live in South Carolina but I have had the very same experience!
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Lilith_1 said:
LMAO. I noticed that tendency too! Thanks for your comment.
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I try my hardest to avoid the newspaper and any other forms of news, except for Democracy Now. Besides that, I reject all other forms of news including CNN. I already know the local news will focus on its first ten minutes reporting crime, and I know they will very likely feature crimes involving blacks. I may pay more attention if they balance the bad with the good, but sadly, it is severely off-balanced and not by accident.
And those same companies will go haywire if a crime is committed by a black person against a white person real or not. It’s a way of them saying “The darkie savages are coming to get you, your children, and possibly your dog.”
Lord have mercy…
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You know, it took me well into adulthood to figure out why my mother (white, born and raised in the Deep South) clung to certain ideas about white racial superiority even after marriage to a non-white for decades and after experiencing some semi-rejection from her parents (and others) for what she did.
I think I finally came to a similar conclusion as Abagond. In order to maintain some sense of self-worth (especially in light of condemnation experienced from her family and the community), she had to cling to some ideas of white racism. That sense of self-worth was so much easier to obtain than the kind that is based on actual achievement.
I have seen other white people married to non-whites who even cling much more strongly to the concept than my mother. You would think that they know better, but they often don’t. In fact, they may even need it more than the people who do not encounter many non-whites on a daily basis and who do not face some condemnation for marrying a non-white.
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@Jefe
clung to certain ideas about white racial superiority even after marriage to a non-white. That is weird. You would think that if marrying a nonwhite had such a large impact on their self-worth, then they would just not marry a nonwhite.
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Bliff
You would think that if marrying a nonwhite had such a large impact on their self-worth, then they would just not marry a nonwhite.
Some of them do it because they’re options are limited. If you know what I mean.
http://goo.gl/kSzdx
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‘They know perfectly well that blacks are getting screwed for no good reason – they have seen the ghettos, they know the numbers’
I don’t know the numbers or how they are getting screwed so I would appreciate it if you would tell me the facts, genuinely. Because I’ve seen homicide stats- for example, how black and white people committed similar numbers of murders in 2009 in America even though there are five or six times more white people. UK public figures show that in 2009-2010 in London, black people were responsible for two thirds of gun crime and over half of robberies and street crimes even though they are 12% of the population. I’ve noticed that the most dangerous areas to go to in London are the black areas. I’ve observed the vile gangsta thug culture and disrespect of woman expressed in rap music…and these things are making me more race conscious in a negative way. But if there is something I am missing about how black people’s circumstances are leading to this, I would genuinely like to know about it. Is it poverty? Is it racism?
Also, like you said, a lot of the commenters are race conscious, with many white nationalist types, so this may really not be a representative sample. There are a lot of anti-racist liberal pc white people. There are also a lot of white people who just don’t concern themselves with these issues and wouldn’t be racist either to your face or on the internet. There must be quite a lot of racist white people though because they surface quickly on any youtube video that shows a black person doing something bad. The video seems to be confirming what they already thought…they say vile things that I don’t like but the crime stats do seem to vindicate the basic idea that blacks commit more crime and act like thugs more, you can’t deny it. why is this? if you can explain it to me, I’d be glad to hear it.
and this has got nothing to do with my self-worth. I’m not proud to be white, never have been. I’d happily be something else. In fact, when I was a teenager, I wanted darker skin.
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btw I know that although the murder rates in most of Europe are super low by world standards, the murder rate in Russia, a white country, is quite high. Going back about ten years, it was 30 people per 100,000 per year, which is 30 times higher than some western European countries and maybe two or three times higher than some black majority countries. That proves that white people, in the right circumstances, can have a high murder rate. So that means that high black murder rates could also be high due to circumstances, rather than genetics. That said, I’d still like you to explain to me the circumstances of black people in America, or refer me to articles you’ve written.
Also, I’ll just add that the highest recorded murder rates in the world are in central and south America, which aren’t black countries.
note: I didn’t mean I’m ashamed to be white, just that a skin colour doesn’t seem like something to be proud of. What dark skin tells me is that your ancestors were lucky enough to live somewhere sunny!
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@ Steve
It is circumstances ALL THE WAY. Whites and blacks are both human beings and have the very same human nature. Even the same blood types.
In America whites have like 98% of the wealth and therefore pretty much 98% of the power. That makes them the cause of 98% of what is wrong. They run things, so the blame logically falls on them. That is not called “whining”. That is called common sense.
Rich white people in America like to blame the ills of society on the most powerless and defenceless people, like poor, single black mothers and Mexican immigrants. In a SANE world rich white people who talk that moronic shit would be laughed to shame and openly mocked. But in this world they own the presses and the television networks, even BET, so instead it is a Respectable Opinion that grown men can say with a straight face.
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@Bliff
Yes, agree it’s weird. You would think. But it’s common nevertheless.
I think Abagond pointed this out in many posts already.
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abagond
In America whites have like 98% of the wealth and therefore pretty much 98% of the power. That makes them the cause of 98% of what is wrong. They run things, so the blame logically falls on them. That is not called “whining”. That is called common sense.
Blacks in america are one of the wealthiest groups of blacks anywhere in the world. In fact, if blacks in america were considered separately they’d be one of the wealthiest populations of any color in the world. If whites are responsible for all blacks’ problems then how is it that blacks do better when there are more whites and worse when there are more blacks?
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@ destructure
“If whites are responsible for all blacks’ problems then how is it that blacks do better when there are more whites and worse when there are more blacks?”
Because there’s no buffer for the destruction you cause. We benefit vicariously off of paltry crumbs indirectly cast our way. Why do people of color all over the Earth flock to white nations? Because that is where the wealth of THEIR countries are.
You’re hopeless. I feel sorry for you. I truly do. What a sad sad little man. I pity you because you are so pitiFUL. smh
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DB
Can you provide some present day examples of the transfer of wealth from “their” countries to white nations?
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Well, I know what this blog has taught me regarding white people. It has taught me that many white people don’t like to be called out on their racism. No, the more you say anything about the misdeeds of white people, they get very angry and will lay blame on other races especially blacks. I know there are some honest white people out there, but they are few and far between.
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I have to challenge some of the thinking that went into this article. Just for fun replace the words white and black with each other and read the story and I think you will understand the other side of the story. The fact is that if you are around many cultures you will find that they will for the most part band together as they have a common bond.
Each race treats the other races differently in settings dominated by their own race. I have been around all white environments and all black environments and while in all black environments the things they would say were as racist about white people or minorities as anything white people say about blacks. “White boys can’t dance”, “who brought the white boy?” if that was a black person in a white environment and someone said “who brought the black boy?” or “Black people can’t play tennis” can you imagine. The fact is that races act differently towards other races when they are in majority of an environment. It isn’t white, it isn’t black, it isn’t Asian. I have been in all situations where I was the minority. I have sat at dinner tables with black families and had them say many things as “jokes” that would be considered highly racist if it was a black person at the table of a white family.
I think that the section on the wife beating mentality could be said as much to each race. How can white people be stereotyped with such a broad stroke as what the same article says is wrong towards black people. If this was an article about black people it would be called racist. If it was an article about Asians would be called racist. People need to be realize that people don’t get along in a single race or from other races. The problem with blaming everything on your race is you focus on the wrong things and play the victim.
There are successful people in every race and there are losers in every race. There are people who are treated horrible and people who have no problems. Life is tough for most people and we can blame anything we want for every trouble we have but the world doesn’t care and there are a hundred injustices a person can blame. There is no perfect world where everyone loves everyone no matter what and to complain about it honestly is a waste of time.
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@Ross Quintana
I think you are failing to see how much white racism has oppressed and shaped the lives of POC. I also think you fail to realize that racism was created by the white man and therefore…how can you not expect some POC to use what you consider to be racist against whites as a emotional defense that has transpired through life experience with white racism through every aspect of their lives. The scant amount of racism against whites, from POC, has no affect on their job opportunities, education and educational opportunities, success of businesses, housing opportunities, equal rights and so on.
@Leigh204
So true…I was once like that…thankfully I woke up and am still learning.
@Steve
“There are a lot of anti-racist liberal pc white people. There are also a lot of white people who just don’t concern themselves with these issues and wouldn’t be racist either to your face or on the internet.”
Something that I have noticed about those “anti-racist liberal pc white people” groups and “white people who just don’t concern themselves with these issues” is that they are hidden racists or they don’t think they are racist when they actually are…they are closed off to learning about what is considered racist in the eyes of the beholder and defend themselves and get angry at the notion that they are racist rather than trying to listen, learn and grow.
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I read the post and about half the comments. I apologize upfront for not continuing to read all of the comments, but I have some health issues that make it very difficult for me to strain for so long on the computer right now.
Anyway, that said. I am one those white people who apparently is not at all familiar with racism. Not that I am not aware it exists I certainly am aware it exists, but I kind of live in my own little bubble with my health and being stuck at home all the time. And I honestly never thought it was so serious still. And if I say something that appears to be offbeat or offensive please know I do not intend to be offensive.
I found this blog just today and it was the title of the post via twitter that just caught my attention. Being white and the title being “What this blog has taught me about white people” clearly addressing some issue with white people it caught my curiosity. I wondered why it was being aimed directly at white people and so I came to read it. I now understand the meaning of the title.
I also understand the hesitancy of brown people (pardon me for using the term brown people, but I am honestly not sure how you would like me to address that and saw that someone else used it so I hope that it is an acceptable term and not offensive. If it is simply let me know and I will change it.) Anyway, of you all being hesitant to befriend a white person. I’m so sorry that life has taught you that this is the way it has to be. I understand that hurt in that I have trust issues with people in general. Not from a racist point of view, but just one from where trust has been broken and I find it difficult to relate to others as a whole.
I think it is a sad state of affairs that any race/creed/group/person(s) should ever have to feel that way, and that they should ever be mistreated in anyway because of that fact.
Someone recommended that as a white person to educate oneself on racism that we should know our own history. Well, I do know my families history to a certain extent, and in all honesty the ancestors are not something I will ever admit to being proud of. My father’s family originally came from England and it was told to me that the first ones over were in fact slave owners and even had a plantation. Not something I’m proud of you should know, but I was not a party to that and never would be. I cannot change what has been done. I’m sad that it happened.
Another part of my history is that my mother’s father was Indian. Local to the US (Appalachian area). My Indian heritage were slaves.
So on one side of the coin I come from slave owners and on the other side of the coin I come from slaves.
I have always grown up considering myself Caucasian/Indian, but never felt the strain and hurt that comes with racism. I just never experienced it. It was never an issue in my life for me personally.
I was raised in a couple different areas during my life. In the beginning it was predominantly brown people. From the time i was 7 it was predominantly white people. I honestly don’t remember much from before I was 7. I do know that we moved from the area because it was becoming, how did my father put it to “dangerous and to many trashy people moving in”. I don’t believe my father would ever have been blatantly racist and he would never have been mean to anyone because of their race, but I do believe he had some racist in him. I remember once telling him I though he was a racist and he was quite embarrassed and from that day forward was extra careful about what words he chose to speak around us kids. And he also apologized for the words he used. I’m not making excuses for him, but at least he did try to do better.
After that I never heard any more racial remarks, and since I’ve personally not been the victim of racism I do not believe that I will ever be able to understand the full impact of that on your lives.
I am however a woman. Who is “white”/”caucasion-indian”. I am a single mom. A christian. And I personally have been left behind, mistreated, undervalued, undermined, abused, and basically left hanging out to dry.
For years I lived with the impression of myself that I was not worthy because I was a woman. Because i was not smart enough (because I’m a woman), etc. I could go on and on about this subject.
I have never felt superior to anyone because I am white or otherwise. I have always felt inferior. Then one day I woke up. I cannot control the actions of those who mistreated me, but what I can do is rise above it. Push forward. Make something of my life no matter what anyone else thinks, feels, or says about me.
I stopped worrying about ignorant people and moved on with my life. I think sometimes that is the best we can do. My life is not perfect, but it is not bad. I started my own business. Still a young business, but progressing along. I am raising my children on my own and very tightly getting by. But getting by.
I am happy. I now feel safe. My children are doing well for the most part.
Ignorance should never be rewarded. We just need to leave those people behind and forget they exist.
PS – When I am more rested. I will come back to read more. I look forward to learning more from all of you!
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[…] Read original blog entry here. […]
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Mzcalamity
Write a play. You have a way with words. I am serious.
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@Hermieth
Also, you should write or document your familyès journey. So many interesting stories here, esp. your familys – should be on the big screen. I wish I could see more of these stories and not the boring euro centric, smokescreens for comsumption that are there.
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@Mzcalamity; I agree with Angela. You have a way with words. You should comment often. I enjoyed that.
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I’m sorry you feel that way I apologize if I made you feel that way. I do want to help believe it or not I only know my life experience so that’s what I base my opinions on however I believe and agree with you on 99% of your blog my brother reads your blog and introduced it to me he told me your were a voice of color that could help me see beyond my self and see the struggles of all people of color. I had always felt that the racism my brothers when through growing up wasn’t much different from my childhood growing up beside them but after he went to collage I saw the unfair system I want to help but I don’t know how for the most part that is way I loved your advise to white people page and the stages of being white page so much it gave me an idea of what to do. White people who truly want to change are few and far between I agree. I wish I had never thought a racist thought but I have I’ll admit it I’m truly sorry I have defended white people by saying it ws our ancestors fault for slavery becuse it hard not to. I mean I’m German and Jewish it is super weird coming from that ethnic background. I was raised by a black step father who didn’t like the fact I was white then by a native American stepfather who didn’t like the fact I was white or that my half brothers were black. It makes for a confusing experience. I love my brothers want them to have a fair chance in life as all people should. I realize the first step is to change me. That however abagond Is really hard but I’m trying.Please don’t lose hope in all white people. There are some out there who care.
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@Jane the Jew
Are you really being sincere or are you asking for attention? Whites who really want to get end racism in this country are few and rare. I really hope you are being sincere and no(to other bloggers on here such as Trojam, BrothaWolf etc), I am not asking for a White person’s approval of this blog nor do I try to.
Honestly what this blog taught me about Whites in AmeriKKKlan is that MOST of them are unconscious racists who feel that they are better than Blacks and minorities and many of them don’t realize it either. All Whites in this country have been brainwashed to think that Blacks are inferior, that they aren’t fully human or functioning and are somehow different form of animals. I realized now to be very careful in a company of Whites because many of them would say crap about me and people in my race behind my back. I also realized how racism ran deep in the hearts of many White AmeriKKKlans just from reading the comments many of them leave on here.
There are very few Whites are actually want to end the system of White supremacy in this country and have a country free of racism.
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I am sincere. I am a bisexual women with cerebral palsy and two poc are my half brothers and three woc are my sisters and I am married to a Latino man so I guess I have reasons to be sincere. I only comment on blogs becuse I have questions or sincere opinion that I feel I should discuss for various reasons usually becuse it feels it would be benefitual to discuss but I was bad about defending white people which I am putting a stop to. I apologize if it seems I want attention becuse I don’t but I am bad about taking things in life and putting in my own personal history (starting a round of oppression Olympics) for this I am sorry I didn’t mean anything by it.
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I may be one of the only few white people with empathy but we do exist.
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My approval doesn’t mean a damn thing not trying to convince anyone otherwise I just saying good white people exist but you have every reason to believe otherwise so you don’t have to believe me when I say I am sincere
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@ adeen
No need to explain. I am so sick of the constant “looking for white people’s approval” comments coming from some bloggers on here. It is becoming where you can’t even speak your mind or feel different about something without being accused of looking for a white persons approval. I swear as much as we throw shade at whites dividing us I am beginning to witness blacks doing it.
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What this blog has taught me is that we have been conditioned to believe what we believe whether black or white. It’s getting exhausting trying to make whites understand why we are angry and get them to have some empathy for our plight. When we try to talk about our experiences, don’t blow us off and say we are bitching and moaning. At least try to understand why we are so disaffected. Try to listen and learn how to fix this problem that has us so divided. I wonder if twenty years from now will this same dialogue be going on.
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I hate when people say blacks are playing the oppression Olympics. When our experiences are real and they affect us. We should at least be able to talk freely about our feelings and how being marginalized affects us.
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In part I agree with this statement. Most Caucasians will ignore racism because to do so will have no effect on their day to day lives. Unless [American] Caucasians actively go out of their way to experience it, it is unlikely that they will ever have even an incomplete understanding of this type of discrimination. When understanding comes at the cost of comfort most people will not think twice about ignorance. It is the easiest thing. Change will generally not be considered until the party in question becomes uncomfortable or oppressed.
If what you say about racism being so integrated into the Caucasian persona is true, then to recognize it would essentially entail a rejection of self no? So how do you convince someone to reject themselves and their culture (which history proves is indeed at fault for much of the condition society is in today — but not wholly as it is a multi-faceted issue)? In my view that is what would have to occur, at least according to your assessment. And that seems to me an insurmountable task.
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In hindsight perhaps I should have posted this on the “My advice to white people” posting… But either way, I am curious to read any reply.
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@ k8tglynn
It is an insurmountable task in most cases:
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Just read the link. I like the blog. It has made me think and re-awaken. Thank you for that. I agree with most of what you say. And I suppose that is because I have seen and identified with many of the points you make about whites and racism. And I have struggled with how to change this in my own life and in the circumstances around me. Growing up I knew that it existed, and saw people that I cared about deal with it, heard them talk about it and saw their anger, but never understood. When I was a teen I experienced what it was like to be the only person of my race in a group of people of a different culture and language (aside from my sister who was with me in this particular instance). I felt what it was like to be the only one who didn’t understand. To hear people talking and not know what they were saying… the most overpowering fear I have probably ever known. I thought, what if something happens? What if I have to find my way back to where I’m staying but nobody can understand me? What if I am hurt and can’t communicate where or why? What if I end up alone and I look different from everybody else? Will I be safe? What will I do? This created a great desire within me, an urgent need, to make myself heard and to understand what was being said. I think it was in part motivated by fear, and in part by the sudden shattering knowledge that the world was not what I thought it was. It was so cruel and so ugly and there were so many people whose struggles were so monumental and nobody would help. I questioned my entire existence. I acted, the best way I knew how — I learned another language, I put myself in a position where my day to day experience changed. Where I could see outside of my bubble. I know none of this matters to the larger picture, it is only a relation of personal experience. But it has a point relative to the blog en fin. I need not tell you what it feels like to be the only person of your race in a room full of people who share a common culture and experience. For the first time in my life I knew what it felt like to be looked at like I was the most ignorant being on the planet. I knew what it felt like to be small and at the mercy of others. I was judged by my skin. Now, understand I consider the people that I came to know friends. But I also understand the feelings that me being who and what I was inspired in them. I represented everything that they had struggled against and everything that oppressed them. When they looked at me, they saw the epitome of American superiority, the sum of “White Privilege”. I heard so many stories, so many personal accounts of what it was like to be a Non-American trying to integrate into this culture and the daily insult that they faced just trying to interact with so many ignorant white people. I hated to hear what they went through. I hated that they had been treated that way by ignorant people. I hated how white people — my culture, my heritage — had made them feel about themselves and their culture. In many ways I came to hate myself. I wanted to badly to be accepted by them. I tried so hard. I tried to prove that I was different than the rest of “them”. But my skin never changed color. I didn’t know my own identity any more. They always saw me as the well meaning, misguided guera who would never understand. And my family? They didn’t understand why this mattered SO MUCH. I was called the Mexican. The wanna-be. I was stupid for going there, because I was going to get raped and killed. I could make more difference getting an education. But I couldn’t. Not after what I now knew. I was so angry, and so full of hate — for myself, for all white people who had no idea how ignorant they were, for my culture, and in some ways for those who would never accept me. I hated that I felt so guilty and so ashamed for being who I was, for existing. If I had been born any other color… then I could be part of the change, and not THE PROBLEM.
I say all of this not because I see it as having been a struggle. It was an awakening. I had to go through this to begin to understand. I will never fully see. And the reason why? No matter how hard I try, no matter how much guilt and shame I carry for my race, no matter how much hate I hold, I will never be anything other than white. It is how I left the womb, and it is how I will one day lie when I breathe my last. I have thought, and still do, about how I can make any change. And this is the conclusion that I have come to. I cannot atone for the sins of my race. All I do and all I say will never be enough. Carrying guilt and shame like it is part of who I am will do me no good. What I can do is honor the truth. I must accept both the bad and the good reality about my race. I can change no one but myself. I will never understand completely the experience of someone of another race. I see this now. But I can recognize all men as equal. Equal rights, equal experience, equal treatment may be an ideal that we never reach, but equal worth is an absolute, no matter how much we try to lie. Eventually the balance of power will shift. Call it Karma if you will. American culture and the white demographic will soon face a new reality. The evil that we have committed while drunk on power will never disappear. It was so easy because there has been no consequence [to us] while the power has been in our favor. One day we will all be faced with defining who and what we are when that balance does shift. We have defined ourselves by this power, and have very little else apart from it. I believe that a true cultural and race identity crisis of this type is the only thing that will shed light on our ignorance and denial. As long as every white person has the option of living among all whites and achieving the maximum status quo with little struggle, there will be no change. I am not advocating oppression or reverse racism, I am stating that, until the life we are living requires more than a passing thought, there will be no change. Not because many of us don’t care or are evil. But many of us do not know how to really care. Some are in fact well meaning, but the understanding is so incomplete, the ignorance so pervasive. And for most human beings to change, it must be a necessity. Historically there has been no reason for the white race to change. I do believe that this reality is slowly evolving as we become a minority. The awakening will come, and you can bet that it will be a hard one for most of us.
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You are clearly a racist. Like one insignificant existence (male, female, black, or white) here on planet Earth could know about all white or all black people. You don’t know anything more than anyone else about white people or any other people. DISGUSTING. You will pay for your ugliness and ‘know it all’ arrogance just like all of the racists about which you write.
Cameron in Atlanta
*Racists come in all colors and from all tribes*
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I would just like to say that, as a white guy living in a country that didn’t give indigenous and ‘non-white’ peoples the right to vote until 1967, I heavily enjoy your blog and commentary on issues of race and racism in contemporary America.
But yeah, what you’ve outlined is completely true. While education does go a long way, most white Americans don’t seem to be interested in education – they’re interested in keeping hold of the slipping vestiges of white supremacy that surround them like a mist. When I started learning about contemporary American politics, and the disgusting socioeconomic repression against African-Americans, it made me sick. Some of those recorded stop and frisks people put up (which I’m assuming happens quite a lot) where just monstrous. You’d think people were at the mercy of a malicious schoolyard bully, if that bully didn’t have a badge, a gun and the ability to send you to prison.
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@abagond and all the commenters with amazing personal stories. I’m so glad I’ve finally seen that there’s people who get it. I’m an 22 year old black gay male and I’ve experienced homelessness, racism, discrimination, just almost every vile human behaviour you could think of. And my eyes have always been open to the true flow of the world and I used to just wish God (or insert whatever higher power you believe in) would relieve me of that burden and I could live my life as a normal black teen living in a bubble of my own ignorance and naivete. I used to think I was crazy that maybe the world I saw was just my brains way of tearing myself down even further than I was already. Being 6″4 gay black homeless teen was the hardest thing I ever dealt with but I thank God for it because it exposed me to the evil of our society. An evil so thick and noxious that it may linger for generations to come. This blog has cemented in my spirit that my story OUR story should be heard from all different colors, genders, sexual orientations, etc. and I want to try my best to make that happen or die trying. This blog was seriously a blessing to me. When you travel your path alone for so long you often forget other feet have walked on or beside that same path either before or after you. Reading this blog makes that true to me and calms my spirit. Sorry for the long post but I just had to get that off my chest. What you’re doing is great I implore you to continue. So that other young black minds can find solace in the fact that they’re not alone.
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@ Cameron
Now that was one of the poorest attempts to defend white racism on this blog and it shows that you did not spend any time actually trying to understand the points that the author made here.
You sound like you are either too young or simply too dim to get it so if you are not up to the task find something better to do.
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Hi all,
I find this blog very interesting and it’s also a great source of relief for me. I come from Eastern Europe where people of colour are a minority. Racism is a big problem in this part of the world because the powers that be don’t make almost any effort to punish this kind of behaviour. As a result white people do not face almost any repercussions when they act in a racist way.
Living amongst white people of Eastern Europe has taught me the following:
1.They have difficulties in nurturing any sort of normal, positive relationships with other people because they are keen to distrust and back stab even their close friends or family.Expressing lack of concern for other person’s feelings to their face is completely normal.
2.They have a lot of pent-up frustration in their minds.If they see that someone openly expresses their emotions they often mock them.
3.They like to knock others down to drag themselves up. Eastern Europeans enjoy looking for faults in other people and like to belittle other people’s accomplishments.
4.They are extremely envious. They don’t like to see others succeed, it makes them angry because they feel unimportant.
5.They seem to embrace everything negative and instead of hoping for the better they expect a disastrous ending.
6.They are not keen to take responsibility for their actions and struggle with taking control over their destiny.
When it comes to their attitude to people of colour I would describe it as love-hate relationship.
1.In general they are racist and ignorant because they fear other races.
2.They back up racist behaviour in a brazen way. When they are exposed as racist they start to make excuses/make up nonsensical accusations about their victims.
3.They like to use character assassination to derail accusations of racism. E.g. they’d make up statistics about black crime, bad educational results etc.
HOWEVER
4.There is a big difference when it comes to racism amongst men and women.
In general women are better behaved and more intelligent than men. They feel ashamed and condemn racist behaviour whereas men tend to support it.
5.Women like the company of people of colour and like to explore their culture.
6.They copy elements of black culture and pretend that they are their own. Hijacking rap, hip-hop and the culture surrounding it.
7 They are curious about black people and even make friends with them. However, they are the kind of white ‘friends’ that are not racist because they have a coloured friend.
So that’s mine experience. Living amongst these people is not an enjoyable experience. You often feel alienated,not that much because they’d be openly nasty to you but just because you feel that they are too distant from black way of thinking and being.
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Hello Marine, are you a white person?
and,
what is your sex?
Thank you.
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In any inquiry it is best to get a statement from the witness than to make even the smallest assumption about the witness.
BTW George, while you’re here, are you a white person?
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I’m not white and I’m female. A bit curious why’d that be important to know…
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“So then I saw that racism is rooted not in a lack of facts or in bad ideas, as I thought, but in their sense of self-worth”.
Abagond,
I disagree. In my opinion racism is a tribalistic defensive response and grows out of fear and a subsequent lack of respect for “others”. Neither facts, nor the acts or intentions of minority tribes have anything to do with it and neither does the self-worth for any but the most destitute of whites, and even then those whites must live in close proximity to blacks to develop the “at least I’m not black” mindset.
In my experience, most whites have little or nothing to do with blacks or other tribal minorities outside of the workplace and in many instances, not even there. They may run into minority tribes throughout their day, but there is no real connection- its all business. They simply don’t think of blacks except in the way the media and white society has taught them, much less measure themselves against them. Blacks are:
1. criminals
2. sports stars
3. poor
4. Al Sharpton
White self-worth is derived from the mores of white culture and the media. And in white culture wealth is the yardstick. As you’ve noted in the past, America is founded on the puritan ethic of thrift, work, individualism and the sinfulness of idleness. In practice that means that If you are rich, white society also assumes you are “good” and a hard worker and if you are poor then something must be wrong with you.
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@ Georg
What your plan for the 12% U.S. Black population to gain the power?
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@ George
Yeah but “which 12 percent” ends up running the world usually has more to do with taking advantage of luck, timing, and momentum. If they come to you, you may be able to capitalize on them, but it’s not just a case of anybody who tries hard enough can have the power.
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king — What your plan for the 12% U.S. Black population to gain the power?
Blacks whine that they’re being oppressed but king’s question shows what blacks really want — power. What power do you want that you don’t already have? The power to redistribute wealth from productive citizens to welfare leeches? The power to increase racial discrimination through affirmative action? The power to let black criminals go unpunished? Sounds like Detroit.
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^ I was challenging George’s post (above mine) so how does that show that blacks really want power?
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George — they should want power. the power to live their lives without being oppressed.
Blacks aren’t “oppressed”. You say so because blacks, on average, aren’t as successful as whites. But blacks are just as successful as their white counterparts of similar ability.”
the only thing that will undeniably defeat racism is the total empowerment of a unified and determined black community.
I haven’t been reading your comments so I don’t know much about you. But I’ve read a couple of your comments and got the impression you were a marxist whackjob. As such you are outraged by unequal outcomes not because anyone was discriminated against but simply because not everyone ends up with the same number of cookies. You’re irrational.
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Marxist no. I’m a capitalist through and through. Free market and all that jazz.
Do tell. How did an “imperialist capitalist pig” (LOL) such as yourself come to embrace the plight of the north American negro? Where the likes of Michael Jordan and Lebron James are bought, sold and traded like cattle?
(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4XEq6XYtMVU)
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What this blog has taught me about white people
That no_slappz has a successor in da jokah! The only good thing I can say about him in comparison to ol’ slappzy, is he doesn’t post huge comments as a rule! Carry on jokah and those who choose to debate him!
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I’m not looking to pick a debate with you because you’re a known troll, but hell i got nothing better to do for the next 30 minutes.
That’s the spirit! Try throwing in some jokes for good measure and to entertain us all!
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anything else you’d like to talk about?
Any good sales on at Macys?
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King said:
“What your plan for the 12% U.S. Black population to gain the power?”
In America today the only place where power might be consolidated would be in the locale community.
If possible Home school your kids. Public schools teach people how to be cogs in the system. Public schools need to be controlled by the community and not by the teachers unions. Standards need to be raised to what they were before white liberal educators decided to dumb down American education for the “benefit” of POC based on the their racist notions that POC aren’t as smart as white people. American education (K-12) compared to the rest of the world is a joke.
Withdraw from the national political system and focus on regional government. Blacks are allowed seats at the national level if they support the system. By remaining their it gives the illusion that we live in a post racist society.
Build black communities and police them with black officers that live in the communities they police.
Building black communities requires financing. Black owned banks, black owned business and black owned homes. Where the black community would get financing requires government intervention as I doubt Wall street would invest their.
Black churches and community organizations help empower a community..
Fifty years ago successful black communities were likely to be destroyed by white people. I think that’s less likely now but just in case buy guns. Strong black communities threaten whites self image and will always be viewed as a community that is subversive to American ideals. Remember Dr. King was a “communist” and Malcom X a “Muslim”.
One thing that has hurt African Americans as a diaspora community is that their roots have been cut off from Africa. All other immigrates here have that support and money flows back and forth between communities.
My Armenian friend was telling me that when he came here 30 years ago he had been sending money back to his community, buying real estate and renting it out. When the economy crashed here the money he had invested in Armenia came back to him here to help him keep his businesses open. He never imagined that his relatives would be sending his money back to America.
One aspect of the civil rights movement that I think didn’t benefit blacks was bussing. It had the affect of breaking up the community. The money spent on bussing should have been spent on bringing black schools up too par with white schools. This massive social engineering experiment had the affect of further eroding black identity and created a white standard that blacks are suppose to meet if they are to be “upwardly mobile.” Bussing was an attempt to create a “colorless” society even though systemic racism remained within the judicial system, higher education and finance.
As a white person I don’t trust the Democrats or the Republicans. POC should doubly not trust these people because they don’t have your best interest in mind. They are all about maintaining the system.
I don’t think the mass incarcerations of POC is going to end anytime soon.
One step in the right direction would be returning complete citizenship to felons once they are released from prison. Once a man does his time he should be a free man. Large segments of the population are forever reduced to second class citizenship and get denied the right to vote, find a job, qualify for housing and have a social stigma attached to them for the rest of their lives. Oddly enough republican Rand Paul put forth such a bill but it still requires FIVE years before it would kick in.
(http://www.cnn.com/2014/02/19/politics/rand-paul-felon-voting/index.html)
If released prisoners are going to be able to get jobs I don’t see how making them wait five years is going to help. Peoples records need to be wiped clean unless they are pedophiles or something similar.
The only way to shut down systemic racism is to end the empire.
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“The only way to shut down systemic racism is to end the empire.”
**********
… and move away from this Western values system where the need to generate greater and greater insatiable profits currently outweighs the desire to improve the quality of life for those people who need the most help. The infirmed and sick, the homeless, the unemployed, the poor, the oppressed, etc.
The “empire” seems to be heading towards ending itself. It’s not sustainable in its current state. It remains to be seen when and how it’ll collapse and what will come out of its ashes.
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As a white person in New Hampshire, one of the whitest states (something like >95%), I would be utterly clueless about race, racism, and particularly the way “whiteness” works if it weren’t for this blog (and blogs like it). Thank you, Abagond.
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