Since this interview is already coming up in the comments of this blog, I thought I would do a quick post on it. John Mayer, a white American singer, did a Playboy interview and said some pretty strange stuff – like preferring masturbation to women. Anyway, here are bits of it (see the link below to read the full interview at playboy.com):
His hood pass:
Someone asked me the other day, “What does it feel like now to have a hood pass?” And by the way, it’s sort of a contradiction in terms, because if you really had a hood pass, you could call it a nigger pass. Why are you pulling a punch and calling it a hood pass if you really have a hood pass? But I said, “I can’t really have a hood pass. I’ve never walked into a restaurant, asked for a table and been told, ‘We’re full.’”
On being black (while being white):
What is being black? It’s making the most of your life, not taking a single moment for granted. Taking something that’s seen as a struggle and making it work for you, or you’ll die inside. Not to say that my struggle is like the collective struggle of black America. But maybe my struggle is similar to one black dude’s.
When asked if black women throw themselves at him he said:
I don’t think I open myself to it. My dick is sort of like a white supremacist. I’ve got a Benetton heart and a fuckin’ David Duke cock. I’m going to start dating separately from my dick.
I always thought Holly Robinson Peete was gorgeous. Every white dude loved Hilary from The Fresh Prince of Bel-Air. And Kerry Washington. She’s superhot, and she’s also white-girl crazy. Kerry Washington would break your heart like a white girl. Just all of a sudden she’d be like, “Yeah, I sucked his dick. Whatever.” And you’d be like, “What? We weren’t talking about that.”
He later apologized in very general terms.
See also:
- John Mayer’s Playboy interview
- Blog reaction:
- Revolution G(i)rl – a fan who has now unchecked his songs in iTunes
- Racialicious
- The Field Negro – glad when famous people out their racist selves
- The Black Snob
- The Root – interesting remarks on the whole idea of the “hood pass”
- white men that like black women
- Why some black women prefer not to date some white men
- Black women that white men like
- Why so few white men marry black women
- The blackness of Madonna
- Playboy
he is so weird and wanting attention so bad.
He will say anything for attention.
really sad.
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that is why he moves from one celebrity woman to the next.. and then he tells the media about their sex relations.
what a scummy man!
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Wait a sec… Is this guy black???
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no
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Sadly, I think most of the reaction to this interview is probably because he uses “not nice” words to discuss sexuality.
If he’d have used euphemisms, half of the outrage would disappear. Frankly, I’d expected a lot worse from all the BAAAAAAW out there on the intertubes.
I mean, what does he say, really, stripping away the “nasty” language?
1) It’s a lie to say he knows what it feels to be black as he’s never been denied service in a restaraunt based on the color of his skin. This seems to me to be straight up with the party line of most commentators here, is it not?
2) So he gives us some typical white blather about the “black experience” and says that, while he’s not black, maybe there are some similarities to some black people’s experiences in his life. OK, so this is offensive?
3) He says he dates within his race – EXACTLY LIKE 90% OF THE COMMENTATORS HERE. Then he makes some silly-ass comparisons between how certain black women behave and how white women supposedly behave. Again, I find this racist and offensive, but given how many of the commentators on this blog have made similar comments about how white women are supposedly more “crazy” or “slutty” than black women, I find it hard to see why people would be offended. His blurb on Washington is just typical generation Y shockorama BS. This is the generation that’s given us New York on Flavor of Love, for Christsake and Mr. Slim Shady hisself, M&M.
As for masturbation being as good as sex, I think the guy has made a valid point: dating to him is a headache, for obvious reasons involving his fame. Many, MANY feminist women have pointed out that masturbation is better than most sex. So this lil’ rocker bunny comes along and says the same thing and is going to be trashed for it?
Why?
Again, the problem is the language. If Mayer played the cool, collected WASP instead of Joey Whitetrash in his interview and had used acceptable language for his oppinions, I very much doubt people would be offended.
So could someone please explain what’s so horrendous about this interview that I’m not getting?
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Black women are neither desperate/stupid enough to be interested in this MORONIC DOUCHE ANTI-BW RACIST.
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Thanks for the info. It really got me confused by his comments on “being black”. I thought you actually had to be black to talk what being black is like.
The guy seems like a total… Eh, I don’t want to get censored. But you get the idea. Perhaps he made this interview to shock people, but he did it in a very immature, and very unintelligent way.
So what is he actually trying to say? That he’s an ok guy, but his penis seems to be attracted only on white women? And he find that, what? Funny? Allright? Shameful?
What guy prefers masturbation to a woman, anyway?
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I knew it! I knew it! I knew it!
Mayer’s comments are Abagond’s forte! LOL. I knew you (and the mainstream media who love to stroke racial tension) would have a field day with news of the interview hitting the press.
Mayer, just proves that (like his music has been doing all along), that he’s really, really, really…white. No big deal.
Most whites feel like him, in regards to black women, “the black experience” and the like. Abagond can’t stop writing posts on it so it’s like we’re in the dark about it.
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Sadly, I think most of the reaction to this interview is probably because he uses “not nice” words to discuss sexuality.
Yeah… not really. If he had dressed it up like Steve Sailer does, it wouldn’t have been any better.
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I knew it! I knew it! I knew it!
Mayer’s comments are Abagond’s forte! LOL. I knew you (and the mainstream media who love to stroke racial tension) would have a field day with news of the interview hitting the press.
Mayer, just proves that (like his music has been doing all along), that he’s really, really, really…white. No big deal.
Most whites feel like him, in regards to black women, “the black experience” and the like. Abagond can’t stop writing posts on it so it’s NOT like we’re in the dark.
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i’m not going to lie, i am a huge fan of john mayer’s music–i really like the sappy, soft-rock and he’s a great guitar player. however as his ego and doucheyness has grown, the quality of his work has gone down. i never thought he liked black women (his love songs are beautiful, but it’s obvious they’re about white women–and he’s white so that’s to be expected) so i wasn’t too hurt over the interview. john mayer is a well-known misogynistic ahole, i guess homophobic racist can be added to that list, too!
i’ve noticed everyone is freaking out over “the n-word” and not any of the subtle racism (although it’s very obvious to me) in his comments about black women. i guess it’s because american society just sees that as “preference.”
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While I do appreciate when people (including racist ones) speak what they really think and refuse to sugar-coat things (hey, at least you really know what’s going on), Mayer comes off as a very unintelligent person. This interview seems honest, but staged in a way- like he’s desperately want to shock people.
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‘like he’s desperately want to shock people.’
that is exactly. He will say anything to get attention. he wants everyone to talk about how outrageous he is.
he is fame loving and I believe he used jennifer aniston and jessica simpson and all the others to get noriety.
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Well, the n-word thing is the only thing that makes at least some sense in this interview- from a logical point of view. At least you can say he’s talking about linguistic privilege. With the rest of the interview- I have no idea what this guy is talking about.
People should not be so attached to certain words to lose the bigger picture. The n-word is horrible, but I bet there are many 100% racist people who would never use it, and public opinion on them would be better than on Mayer.
PS-Just in case it’s not clear: I do not thinking using the n-word is ok.
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Yeah… not really. If he had dressed it up like Steve Sailer does, it wouldn’t have been any better.
C’mon. What has he said that can be compared to what Sailer sez? I see no implication that black people are inferior to white people in any way. Actually, there are a couple of hints to the contrary.
Can someone PLEASE point out to me just what the “subtle racism” is that he’s expressing that doesn’t get expressed on this board every day?
Mayer’s getting trashed for being trash. If he was Mr. Wilbur Wasp and used decent euphemisms for all the “nasty” words, few people here would even notice.
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to be honest I agree with thad.
I don’t dislike john mayer because I think he is racist.. I dislike him because he is trashy
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anonygrl
i’m not going to lie, i am a huge fan of john mayer’s music–i really like the sappy, soft-rock and he’s a great guitar player. however as his ego and doucheyness has grown, the quality of his work has gone down.
Same. He’s like Kanye West — “[You] coulda been a contender.”
i’ve noticed everyone is freaking out over “the n-word” and not any of the subtle racism (although it’s very obvious to me) in his comments about black women. i guess it’s because american society just sees that as “preference.”
Some people are discussing the comments about black women. Although, you’re right, many are saying “It’s just his preference!” …Sure.
Thad,
C’mon. What has he said that can be compared to what Sailer sez? I see no implication that black people are inferior to white people in any way. Actually, there are a couple of hints to the contrary.
I wasn’t implying that what he said is comparable to Sailer’s musings. What I said is that it is not the language that is causing the commotion, but the implications. The language just made him sound unintelligent.
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What I got from this interview is that- for some reason I do not understand- Mayer might be considered “black”, but he doesn’t see himself that way. He was never refused a table at a restaurant. Still, his struggles are struggles of a black man (not man in general, but black man). On the other hand, his penis prefers white women’s vaginas and acts in a very white supremacist sort of way. Holly Robinson Peete and Kerry Washington are gorgeous and could break a man’s heart like a white girl. They all perform oral sex on other men, after all.
Oh, and sex is overrated; masturbation is better.
That would be my translation/interpretation of the interview.
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Shit, I’ll prove it to you!
Here’s Mayer’s responses couched in absolutely acceptable white middle class euphemisms. Tell me what you find so horrible in all this…
His hood pass:
Someone asked me the other day, “What does it feel like now to have a hood pass?” (And, by the way, it’s sort of a contradiction in terms, because if you really had a hood pass, you could call it a… well, I don’t want to say the word, because it’s racist, just like the idea of a white guy having a “hood pass”. But why are you pulling yourpunch and calling it a “hood pass” when you really mean to ask me if I think I’m black? But, in order to not be offensive, I said, “I can’t really have a ‘hood pass’. I’ve never walked into a restaurant, asked for a table and been told, ‘We’re full.’ Black artists get that every day.”
On being black:
What is being black? It’s making the most of your life, not taking a single moment for granted. Taking something that’s seen as a struggle and making it work for you, or you’ll die inside. Not to say that my struggle is like the collective struggle of black America. But maybe my struggle is similar to one black dude’s.
(I can’t for the life of me understand why this is racist, by the way, so there’s no change.)
When asked if black women throw themselves at him he said:
I don’t date interracially. My libido just isn’t cut out that way. I’ve got a Benetton heart and damned segregationist penis. In fact, I think I’m going to separate myself from my penis and start dating that way.
I always thought Holly Robinson Peete was gorgeous. Every white guy I know loved Hilary from The Fresh Prince of Bel-Air. Also Kerry Washington. She’s very attractive, and she’s also as crazy as white girls supposedly are. Kerry Washington would shock you with sex just like alot of white girls today will do. You’d be with her and, all of a sudden she’d see a guy go by and say, “Yeah, I slept with him”. You’d think “What? We weren’t talking about that. That’s definitely something I don’t need to know.”
Now, lay it out to me what’s so highly offensive about all that.
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Mira, LOL. Thanks for the breakdown.
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@mynameismyname:
LOL. In my defence I think we both know that this was going to eat up my threads one way or the other – better to give it a thread of its own. I know you think I am beating a dead horse, I know what you are saying, but this and Peanut’s guest post is the first time in five months that I have posted on this subject. It accounts for 0.5% of my posts but maybe 33% of the comments.
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Black people love him?
Like, hell. Typical American white man thinking the whole world loves them.
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mynameismyname,
It’s my fault! I heard about it this morning on the forum I run, and it was just too relevant to peanut’s post to pass up.
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I think it’s good we got a special post on Mayer. Sure, I don’t think he deserves this attention, but let’s face it- we sooo needed to talk about it.
Abagond: Given the digression on “Why some black women prefer not to date some white men” thread, you might consider a post on general male/female dynamics. (Do men think about sex when asking a woman out on a date? Does man who thinks on sex isn’t nice? Etc).
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Mira sez:
(And I can’t believe I’m wasting my time defending a trailer bunny like Mayer, but…)
Still, his struggles are struggles of a black man (not man in general, but black man).
No, Mira, he said that maybe one or another individual black guy could relate to what he’s been through.
On the other hand, his penis prefers white women’s vaginas and acts in a very white supremacist sort of way.
Right on the white vaginas part, but what in his comment do you see as “white supremacist”? He doesn’t think white women are better or prettier. In fact, he jokes that if it were his own choice, he’d separate himself from his penis and date that way because he doesn’t see anything wrong with black women, per se. In fact, he implies that black women, as a rule, have higher standards than white women (they are not “crazy”).
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Why am I defending this trailer bunny, you ask?
Because I am sick of white trash getting painted as exceptionally racist when what they say is not any worse than what any number of people say, every day.
You all are reacting to Mayer’s CLASS, not his racism.
Shame on you.
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Who even knows what John Mayer’s class is/was? Not many even know who he is.
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You can’t figure out what sort of class role he wants to portray for himself, based on his language use, Natasha?
C’mon! Let’s not pick nits or be coy here.
Whatever he may be IRL, in his interview, it’s pretty clear that he wants to come across as white trash. Kurt Cobain style white trash rather than Bubba Beauford white trash, sure, but white trash nevertheless.
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I have to agree with Thad on this one mostly, although NatashaW makes a good point. Cleaning up his language would not have made his remarks less inflamatory. If, instead of saying “My penis is like David Duke” he had said “I’m really not attracted to black women”, the effect would not have been lessened. What he actually said was less offensive than “I’m really not attracted to black women”. In the interview, he seems to be saying that his lack of attraction to black women is due to some physiological fault on his part rather than some well reasoned bias.
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How many people here, over on the why BW don’t date WM thread, have made comments that are essentially the same – in content – as Mayer’s crack about his David Duke dick and Benneton heart?
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I am sure this John Meyer is quite conversant with the palm sisters, Agnes and Arlene! Uh, I’ve only read about him on the gossip sites. He was caught snogging with Perez Hilton for pity’s sake! A musician pontificates on serious issues, and shows himself to be a clown who’d a thought!
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@Thad
Thad, admit it! The only reason you’re defending him is because he’s male, like you! Or white! Or both! 😀
No, Mira, he said that maybe one or another individual black guy could relate to what he’s been through.
But what happened to him that also happens to black men, but not to white men?
Right on the white vaginas part, but what in his comment do you see as “white supremacist”?
His own words. He called his penis a “white supremacist”, not me. Since he does know his penis much better than I do, I guess I have to trust him on this.
He doesn’t think white women are better or prettier. In fact, he jokes that if it were his own choice, he’d separate himself from his penis and date that way because he doesn’t see anything wrong with black women, per se.
Than why doesn’t he date black women? They don’t want him? (Can’t blame them). Or does he find them interesting, but not in a sexual kind of way? (And we learned on the other thread a man asks woman on a date only if he’s sexually itnerested).
In fact, he implies that black women, as a rule, have higher standards than white women (they are not “crazy”).
True, so he’s racist towards white women too.
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No one knows exactly what he is referring to with “his struggle.” You obviously aren’t too familiar with John Mayer, because he does not want to be portrayed as white trash. Unless that is synonymous for “sincere and deep.”
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Oh, please. John Mayer shouldn’t even have a thread about him. He seems to be very immature.
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What I think is dead hilarious is that half of the black women posting here have spent the last week complaining about the “attention” they get from white guys and how horrible it all is.
Comes a whote guy who says, “Sorry, I’m just not that into black women” and now these same women are screaming “Racist sexist PIG!!!!”
😀 😀 😀 😀
I mean really…
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^To Thad.
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The comments on here are going way too fast.
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He was caught snogging with Perez Hilton for pity’s sake!
And people have any further doubts that he’s white trash?
Hell, schtupping Paris is practically a requirement to get into the “White Trash with more money than sense” club.
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Paris… Or Perez?
There’s a difference, you know. Not that it’s an obvious one, but still…
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‘Perez Hilton’ as in the gossip site, hilarious reading! It’s almost as good as reading Mad Magazine or Spy! ‘Perez Hilton’ is a man. Apparently, Meyer didn’t deny it. Maybe that is what he is referring to when he alludes to his ‘struggles’ LOL!
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But what happened to him that also happens to black men, but not to white men?
Mira, his comment was in explanation to the reporter’s indirect question regarding what he thinks about his supposed new found popularity among blacks. You think, “I dunno, perhaps some black guys can relate to me” is an out-of-bounds response? I don’t think he’s in any way implying that what’s happened to him also hasn’t happened to other white guys, or that it in any way represents the “black experience” (whatever that is this week).
He called his penis a “white supremacist”, not me.
Yeah, and the fact that he called it a “f#$ïng white supremacist” and claimed that if it were up to him he’d separate from it means nothing to you? These aren’t the words of a guy who believes that white women are superior, Mira.
Than why doesn’t he date black women?
For the exact same reason many people here don’t date outside their race: for whatever reason, their libido isn’t wired that way. We can argue whether or not this in and of itself isn’t a result of racism, but if it is, it’s hardly something restricted to whites or men and Mayer doesn’t seem to be proud of it.
True, so he’s racist towards white women too.
No, this part is racist in general, stricto sensu, because it presumes that race determines sexual behavior. However, I’d say at least half of the black commentators posting here ALSO believe this, so why are they upset? Finally, what this view most certainly ISN’T is white supremacist.
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Thad, admit it! The only reason you’re defending him is because he’s male, like you! Or white! Or both!
Naw, I’m defending him because trailer bunny rocker boyz get me all hot ‘n bothered. 😀
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Natasha sez:
You obviously aren’t too familiar with John Mayer, because he does not want to be portrayed as white trash. Unless that is synonymous for “sincere and deep.”
Why yes it is, in the music biz at least. Google “country” and get back to me. 😀
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When asked if black women throw themselves at him he said:
Why was this even a question? No black woman with any kind of self pride would throw themselves at any man, let alone a jackass like him. This is the kind of disrespectful loser I try to avoid like the plague.
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Why was this even a question? No black woman with any kind of self pride would throw themselves at any man, let alone a jackass like him. This is the kind of disrespectful loser I try to avoid like the plague.
Yeah, just like I avoid Hillary Clinto, Leaveum, because she’s just knocking on my door every afternoon now… 😀 😀 😀 😀
My, aren’t we the picky ones?
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lmao What a DOUCHE
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Abagond and Natasha,
The tone of my previous comment wasn’t meant to be negative. Just slight exhausted of the topic. I just wanted to clear that up.
The media likes to stroke racial tension and blast intra-industry drama so they’ll milk Mayer’s comments ’til the well runs dry. We also have explored that Mayer’s comments on race are very common among white Americans, regardless of class.
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Hell, Mayer’s comments on race are very common among BLACK Americans, regardless of class.
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who cares about mayer’s penis. sometimes i think people make these comments just to try and get bw all riled up
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Thad
Yeah, just like I avoid Hillary Clinto, Leaveum, because she’s just knocking on my door every afternoon now…
My, aren’t we the picky ones?
Don’t be sarcastic, you know damn well I wasn’t referring to his celebrity status. Which still doesn’t make him attractive in my book. I’m referring to men with his loser personality traits who disrespect bw.
Yes I am picky. Of course (being a white male) you believe that because I’m a black woman I should accept trash as long as it’s white.
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Leaveumthinking,
You know that’s right!
Thad,
How do you figure Mayer’s ideas are also common among blacks?
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@Thad
Mira, his comment was in explanation to the reporter’s indirect question regarding what he thinks about his supposed new found popularity among blacks.
I had no idea he was popular among blacks.
Yeah, and the fact that he called it a “f#$ïng white supremacist” and claimed that if it were up to him he’d separate from it means nothing to you? These aren’t the words of a guy who believes that white women are superior, Mira.
Thad, please read more carefully. I never said Mayer was a white supremacist- just his penis. And that what he said.
For the exact same reason many people here don’t date outside their race: for whatever reason, their libido isn’t wired that way.
But he didn’t say: “I am not attracted to black women”. He said something along the lines: “I’d love to date black women, but my penis disagrees”.
It makes no sense. Especially when it comes to pure sexual attraction. We all have our preferences, but there are always people who are not “our type”, and we’re still attracted to them. I can’t believe he never met a black woman he was attracted to, even if black women are not his type.
No, this part is racist in general, stricto sensu, because it presumes that race determines sexual behavior.
True. You’re right. That one was racist in general.
I’d say at least half of the black commentators posting here ALSO believe this, so why are they upset?
Black commenters here believe white women have lower standards?
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John Mayer’s supposed to be “popular” with Black people? Who knew? And what does that get you–a high five?
My first reaction was that he just said what a bunch of (non-Black) people were thinking, so I didn’t bother blogging about it, though I can see why you did Abagond.
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Would someone tell me who John Mayer is and why Black people would give a crap about what he says?
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^^^
Good question!
Stop the presses! Johnny has broke down and apologized!
http://perezhilton.com/2010-02-11-john-mayer-breaks-down-in-concert-boo-hoo
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wow i will never look at this bastard the same again lol
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“It makes no sense. Especially when it comes to pure sexual attraction. We all have our preferences, but there are always people who are not “our type”, and we’re still attracted to them. I can’t believe he never met a black woman he was attracted to, even if black women are not his type. ”
response: im still trying to figure out what songs John Mayer sings and how he is popular w/ black people? I aint never heard any of his music that i know of…
second, again who cares about his penis. Alot of people say they aren’t sexually attracted to bw, big deal. If they dont like bw, they dont like bw life continues…
I guess im blessed in the sense that i never understood how people could find whole groups of people unappealing. I can find attractive people in every group under the sun. I wouldn’t have issues reproducing with any of them. its a personality thing that determines my preference. I have cultural preference, but I am attracted and see beauty in a multiplicity of ranges.
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John Mayer is a jew, i wonder what he would say if a black female celeb said: My vagina is anti Semitic, i don’t like jewish men but i find seinfield and jimmy kimmel kind of hot, i guess my vajayjay is hitler but my heart is definietely open to potato pancakes and rosh hashan! jewish people love me by the way, I have a ‘jew pass’, ALL jewish people love me. kikes FTW!”
yeah, that black woman’s head would be on a plate by now.
FYI, i always thought he looks like a rat and ugly as sin, never cared for his “Music”.
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I wouldn’t call this “white trash” humor. This is frat boy humor.
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Leaveum says…
…you believe that because I’m a black woman I should accept trash as long as it’s white.
Yes, that’s right, Leaveum. You put your finger on it right there… Oh, no wait… [shuffles script]… Ahn, yes. Here it is. Actually, Leaveum, I think you should accept trash because you’re a Libra.
That’s it. Sorry for the confusion.
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i tihnk people make these comments/ release these stories to get people riled up and instill a sense of inferiority in young black females. the only thing i feel bad about is the fact that the young black girls who do listen to his music and hear about this will probably be hurt.
you konw how little girls dream and fanatasize about marrying the guy on tv or who sings on the radio and they dream about being swept off their feet. when they hear things like that, its going to hurt and can break their self esteem because something they can’t change is attacked. you can be extremely beautiful, but if only your skin weren’t brown then you’d be okay that’s basically what is being said there.
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Mira sez:
I had no idea he was popular among blacks.
“Supposed”, Mira. Note the adjective, please.
I never said Mayer was a white supremacist- just his penis. And that what he said.
Yeah, and he said his heart was Benneton. My point was that the guy is obviously not make an argument in favor of white supremacy. He’s making a stale attempt at a joke.
Your point is…?
It makes no sense. Especially when it comes to pure sexual attraction. We all have our preferences, but there are always people who are not “our type”, and we’re still attracted to them. I can’t believe he never met a black woman he was attracted to, even if black women are not his type.
That’s all well and good, Mira, but why aren’t you making this point on other threads where certain black women are saying essentially the same thing? I mean, we can argue whether Mayer’s full of it or not, but his argument is in no ways different from that of certain posters here who say they’d never date a white guy because they just aren’t attracted to them.
Or do you have another take on that?
Black commenters here believe white women have lower standards?
Several of them do. Read the comments on the BW/WM thread where people say white girls act more slutish. Want a direct quote?
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FG sez:
I wouldn’t call this “white trash” humor. This is frat boy humor.
There’s a difference? I mean, other than the obvious class difference…?
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Mira,
I had no idea he was popular among blacks.
He isn’t. He’s certainly got a few black fans, and the number has increased since he first hit the mainstream (we’ll see if that trend continues since these comments were published). But “popular” he is not.
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I’ve said it before, I’ll say it again…
Half the people posting here were over on the BW/WM thread yammering about how they hate white guys and don’t want white guys to ever look at them right up to the minute Abagond posted this thread.
Now these same folks are over here baaaawwwwing about Mayer’s racism because he says that while he finds black women to be pretty and OK and all that, he simply doesn’t find them to be sexually attractive.
Am I the only one who sees a contradiction in this?
“White men being sexually attracted to us is horrid!”
“White men NOT being sexually attracted to us is racist!”
Is it too much to ask that people make up their minds one way or the other, please?
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L,
John Mayer is a jew, i wonder what he would say if a black female celeb said: My vagina is anti Semitic, i don’t like jewish men but i find seinfield and jimmy kimmel kind of hot, i guess my vajayjay is hitler but my heart is definietely open to potato pancakes and rosh hashan! jewish people love me by the way, I have a ‘jew pass’, ALL jewish people love me. kikes FTW!”
LOL! Exactly.
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@Thad
“Supposed”, Mira. Note the adjective, please.
Sorry, my mistake. I had no idea he was supposed to be popular among black people.
Your point is…?
My point is that I never said the guy was a white supremacist (just his penis was), and you are arguing with me to say why I find him white supremacist. I never said he was white supremacist.
That’s all well and good, Mira, but why aren’t you making this point on other threads where certain black women are saying essentially the same thing?
I thought you were reading my messages. I AM making this point all over the blog. I support interracial relationships and whenever I see someone is against them, I try to figure out why. If I missed a comment or two, don’t be harsh on me.
What I see on this board is that not many (any?) black women who don’t date outside their race say that’s because they find white men unattractive. Those who say they wouldn’t date white men offer reasons that have nothing to do with sexual attraction. I don’t remember any woman who wrote: “I wouldn’t mind dating white men, in fact, that would be great- but I don’t find any of them attractive. Oh, Matthew Mcconaughey is hot, like a black guy, but I never personally met a white guy I like”.
Black commenters here believe white women have lower standards?
Several of them do. Read the comments on the BW/WM thread where people say white girls act more slutish. Want a direct quote?
Is “having low standards” the same as “sluttish”?
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Thaddeus, the main thing that I as a black woman would like is to be seen as equal to other women.
Why can’t bw be seen as individual women? There doesn’t need to be a notion that bw are just for sex or are asexual. Just treat bw normally with respect like you would any other woman. That was the main point of my post. John Mayer degraded bw by saying he only likes the ones that “act white,” that was exactly the type of attitude I was talking about in my post…
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And I’d also like to point out he degraded white women implying they’re sluts.
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who wants to have their humanity degraded? when you only see a woman as a sex object, you’re degrading their humanity. when you desexualize a whole group of women, you’re also degrading their humanity.
I have no issue w/ Mayer’s comments. the only thing that bothered me was that he said he only liked bw that “acted white,” and that to me is racist.
He doesn’t like bw, they’re not his thing, they’er not his thing. big deal. I just feel sorry for the people who are going to take it personally and apply it to their self esteem levels.
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Mira asks:
Is “having low standards” the same as “sluttish”?
For all intents and purposes, given the context, I think we can agree that it is.
Sorry, my mistake. I had no idea he was supposed to be popular among black people.
Sigh. Mira, the media is trying to hype him as such, at least in this interview. Whether or not he is… My guess is probably not.
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Peanut sez:
Thaddeus, the main thing that I as a black woman would like is to be seen as equal to other women.
Fine. Agreed.
But where does Mayer say he only likes black women who act white? Seems to me he’s saying he’s not even attracted to black women who act white. Now maybe I’ve missed something. Please point it out to me.
when you only see a woman as a sex object, you’re degrading their humanity.
But when women judge men as “winners” or “losers” based on their status and checkbook, that’s not degrading or objectifying…?
Mira sez:
And I’d also like to point out he degraded white women implying they’re sluts.
Uhm, the guy’s a sexist, but “slut” is only degrading to women if you actually believe the double moral standard on which it’s based. His crime isn’t that he’s degreaded women: it’s that he obviously believes in double standard.
But wait a minute: where did he call women “sluts”? I issed that part of the program.
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He wasn’t asked if he was ‘attracted’ to BW, He was asked if BW threw themselves at him. I guess for him to say ‘NO’ would have been too much for his ego to bear, so instead he made a veiled comment on how he is not attracted to BW.
Jackass.
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@Thad
My turn: sigh. I never said whether he’s popular among black people, supposed to be popular among black people, should be popular among black people… I simply said I know nothing about it- that’s why I didn’t understand why he insisted on talking about “black experience”.
Ok, so, who said white women were sluttish?
I can see women here point out that white women are somehow considered to be pure even if they sleep around (while black women are considered oversexed even if virgins).
I remember a conversation about white trash Russian women.
But I don’t remember anyone calling white women sluttish.
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Thad,
“It’s not, he insisted, that black women aren’t attractive — especially if they act white.” here is a direct quote for you.
courtesy of this site which was posted under the topic on “why some bw prefer not to date some wm”
http://www.popeater.com/2010/02/10/john-mayer-loves-black-women/
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I had just heard about this controversial interview. My first thought was, “I wonder if abagond will post about it.” I clicked on over and there it was at the top! 🙂
A few thoughts on his comments:
1) I do think he is mildly racist, though not of the hateful sort, but more in the way that a typical American is racist towards blacks. If he can admit that he finds at least some black women attractive, yet won’t date them, then what does that say? Either he is concerned that the image will hurt his career in which he is capitulating to white supremacy, or he simply thinks he is above black women, even when he finds them attractive. Personally I don’t care though, to each his own on who he wants to date.
2) Black artists are turned away from restaurants? This is bullshit. Sure maybe in the 40s. But are you telling me that in 2010 if Beyonce, Usher or Kanye goes to a restaurant, they are going to get turned away for being black? What a load of crap. I think Mayer saying this is a way of over-compensating for white guilt. It’s actually patronizing. He thinks blacks are going to give a collective “mmmhmmm” and get a black pass or whatever he calls it, esp in light of his odd comments about black women.
3) I don’t know why black women should get up in arms about his comments. I think blacks care too much about what whites think of them. If Usher said in an interview that his heart is Benatton but his d**k is Malcolm X and he only dates black women, this wouldn’t even be news. White people would not care in the least, because white people by and large couldn’t care less what blacks think of them. In fact many of them would be relieved that you don’t have a black man trying to bed white women. Maybe black women get so riled up by these post about white male rejection of black femininity because deep down they are looking for validation. I say to black people, we need to stop caring about what whites think of us, in any regard. Whatever we do should be for our own benefit.
4) Mayer is pretty typical of white Americans in thinking. Only difference is he’s not afraid of being politically incorrect. I actually appreciate his raw honesty. That’s why I can have more interesting and open discussions with guys like Robert Lindsay than your typical guilt-ridden white liberal.
5) I like his music myself, at least what bit I’ve heard of it.
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“But when women judge men as “winners” or “losers” based on their status and checkbook, that’s not degrading or objectifying…?”
response: no, it does what does that have to do with what i have said though…
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He owes Kerry washington an apology, he was so rude to her! I wonder what she thinks of it all, since Hollee robertson peete made her embarrassing statement saying how she was happy because ‘he said good things about her!’.
cringe.
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“But when women judge men as “winners” or “losers” based on their status and checkbook, that’s not degrading or objectifying…?”
response: no, it does what does that have to do with what i have said though…
Sorry. I decided a long time ago that I’m not going to take women’s complaints about being treated like sex objects seriously if they insist on treating men as success objects.
Both are equally objectifying.
And I read that link, Peanut. Please quote me the bit where Mayer says he only likes black women if they act white. I’ve looked high and low for it and still can’t see it. It could be there, but I’m missing it. Please point it out directly for me.
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Holly Robinson Peete really said that? Kerry Washington attracts a lot of white guys, but he was disrespectful.
I’m seeing Mr. Mayer in a whole new light now.
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Syl’s right, however: “jackass” is probably a better epithet for this particular trailer bunny than “white supremacist”.
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Sorry. I decided a long time ago that I’m not going to take women’s complaints about being treated like sex objects seriously if they insist on treating men as success objects.
If I am a woman who does not treat men as “success objects” shouldn’t you take seriously my thoughts on the objectification of women? Or will you treat me as the generic “woman” who is all about the bank account?
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hollee robertson..lol
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His comments are not surprising.
It’s what alot of today’s white males perceive to be so.
And if Kerry Washington, in her circle of white of friends, is suckin’ the he’s and probably bushin’ the she’s, so be it. Shows you how much he AND all the others RESPECTS her Black a..!
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Thaddeus…i’m sorry if you don’t understand the context of the quote, you need to try reading it again and comprehending it better. what other way can you possibly interpret the quote???
“It’s not, he insisted, that black women aren’t attractive — especially if they act white.”
Translation–> “It is not, he insisted [John Mayer] that black women are not attractive”–>
(meaning its not that black women are inherently unappealing to the eye)
“…especially if they act white”–> translated black women that act white are especially attractive
do you see it, or you need me to explain further??
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way to turn it on kerry washington when she has said or done nothing wrong, TaffyApple.
I hate how BW/BM always turn on BW and tuse the ‘N’ word and then they wonder why people call them ‘nappy headed hoes’ …well, here’s a clue for ya! “you” black men use the N word on a regular basis AND diss black women left and right, so ofcourse others will follow suit!
next time you black male enablers and gate keepers see that, think about that!
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“Sorry. I decided a long time ago that I’m not going to take women’s complaints about being treated like sex objects seriously if they insist on treating men as success objects. ”
that is fine, i’m assuming that you’re speaking generally though and not referring specifically to me as i have never made a comment about seeking out men/objectifying men for material sucess. I don’t know how that ties into my comments at all or why you would direct that at me or any of my comments…???
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L.,
What? I’m at a loss as to where that comment arose from.
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i’m kinda lost at L’s comment too….
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Thad, if you wanna look at the quote another way, go ahead. But it seems like everytime comment is made about you find a way to rationalize away the racism in it…why is that?
I really don’t understand what you see as not racist in the quote, but if that’s your view, fine. From my perspective that was clearly a racist comment
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Natasha asks:
If I am a woman who does not treat men as “success objects” shouldn’t you take seriously my thoughts on the objectification of women?
Yes, of course.
However, I have my doubts regarding the concept of “objectification” in general. They can be seen here…
http://omangueblog.blogspot.com/2009/12/pornography-and-objectification.html
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Peanut says:
“It’s not, he insisted, that black women aren’t attractive — especially if they act white.”
That’s not a quote by Mayer, is it? You’re quoting the a$$hole journalist who’s trying to stir up even more s$%*: Brooke Tarnoff.
Seriously, Peanut: don’t you think it’s a little unfair to take Mayer to task for Tarnoff’s interpretation of his words?
Or were you simply unaware that the quote you posted was Tarnoff’s and not Mayer’s?
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You think it’s “rationalizing racism away” when I ask you for a quote from Mayer to the effect that he thinks the only good-looking black girls are those who act white and instead you give me a quote from a hostile journalist’s interpretation of Mayer’s words?
Peanut, I already described in detail how I think Mayer’s comments are racist. What I do not think is that they are white supremacist. I think you have to do some pretty heavy reading into them to come to that conclusion.
But when you quote me Tarnoff as if he were Mayer, it seems to me that your dedication to intellectual honesty might be less than perfect, in any case.
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One word for John Mayer. Gross.
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Eeeeeeeeeeew… 😀 😀 😀 😀
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i was under the impression that was a quote of mayer’s if it wasn’t i’m mistaken. however that doesn’t change the fact that he still made racist comments in terms of bw behaving like ww. He degraded both black and white women…
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“Peanut, I already described in detail how I think Mayer’s comments are racist. What I do not think is that they are white supremacist. I think you have to do some pretty heavy reading into them to come to that conclusion.”
I did not say he was white supremacist. You seem to lump me into a category with other women on here…why do you do that. That’s not the first time you’ve done that. Maybe you have a problem taking people’s individuals comments and applying it across the board???
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way to turn it on kerry washington when she has said or done nothing wrong, TaffyApple.
I hate how BW/BM always turn on BW and tuse the ‘N’ word and then they wonder why people call them ‘nappy headed hoes’ …well, here’s a clue for ya! “you” black men use the N word on a regular basis AND diss black women left and right, so ofcourse others will follow suit!
next time you black male enablers and gate keepers see that, think about that!
You’ve been watching to much T.V. and American media in general. You really hate black people don’t you? Your comments are riddled with stereotypical insults. For someone from a ‘mostly white country, tell me, what is your everyday interaction with African-Americans? How did you come to these conclusions? Bizarre! Are they all the same in your mind?
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Peanut sez:
“It’s not, he insisted, that black women aren’t attractive — especially if they act white.”
Exactly. Note my comments to Mira, above. It is a racist staement because it presumes that race controls behavior. What it is NOT is white supremacist.
And let’s be real, Peanut: probably 75% of the people in American believe that race determines behavior, so why does Lil’ Snotty here end up looking worse than anyone else?
I’ll tell you why: because he’s eeeeeeeeeeeeew groooooosssss, as leigh remarks.
That’s what’s really flipping women’s lids here, not his racism.
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^Peanut quote there should have been…
however that doesn’t change the fact that he still made racist comments in terms of bw behaving like ww.
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Well, he did present himself as eeeeeew grooooos, I must admit.
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And let’s be real, Peanut: probably 75% of the people in American believe that race determines behavior, so why does Lil’ Snotty here end up looking worse than anyone else?
I’ll tell you why: because he’s eeeeeeeeeeeeew groooooosssss, as leigh remarks.
I think it’s the reverse. Leigh thinks he is gross because he made the comments.
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Yeah, Natasha. It’s the words in those comments that she’s reacting to. I doubt she’d find him gross if he used the euphemisms I pointed out above.
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Maybe so. But plenty of people still would’ve been offended by the comments even if he had changed the language.
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I just think John Mayer is gross in his appearance and by his comments. Yuck!
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Leigh, did you think Mayer’s appearance was gross BEFORE his comments are only after?
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Leigh, do you still think he would be gross if he had used different wording to make his comments?
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@tulio:
Oh, gosh. Way before these comments. I remember when he came out with “You’re Body Is A Wonderland” and my friends were swooning saying how hot he was. And I was thinking, “Ugh, he looks like a filthy cockroach who can play a guitar.”
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In my opinion, Mayer’s appearance was nothing to write home about. Before or after the comments. But I did like some of his music. I’m partial to emo love songs.
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@Natasha:
Even if he used different wording, he has always come across as a major douche to me. *shudders* I honestly don’t understand his appeal at all.
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But plenty of people still would’ve been offended by the comments even if he had changed the language.
I really, sincerely doubt thaty, Natasha. Your mileage obviously varies.
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FG,
I wouldn’t call this “white trash” humor. This is frat boy humor.
I missed this comment. I wouldn’t even say it’s frat boy humor. It’s more like “average white guy” comments. But John Mayer did come from an upper crust background in one of the wealthiest cities in America, which is why I find Thad’s comments even more irrelevant and absurd.
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Natasha, I’m not talking about his background: I’m talking about his persona. And no, the language he uses and the image he gives off is not “upper crust”: it is studiously white trash.
I could care less what Johnny boy “really” is: it’s obvious what imagery he’s toying with.
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To me, he is eeeeew grooos because he managed to present himself as a douche with no brain, who is trying to shock people in order to get attention (well, he’s doing fine, isn’t he?)
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@Mira:
I agree. He ewwww grosss no matter what.
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Hey, I have no problems with people calling Johnny a gross little douche bag (though smegma smear would perhaps be more appropriate).
What I DO disagree with is roasting the boy for a form of “racism” that 3/4ths of America, black or white, probably agrees with. The only reason the charge of “racism” is being bandied about is because the guy’s a smegma smear, not because he’s some sort of white supremacist.
It is this sort of “crying wolf” that makes it materially that much harder to have a really serious discussion about racism in the U.S.
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Mayer was gross before his comments.
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Oh, man. A real live Borat suit!
And here I didn’t think those things were ever really worn by anybody. 😀
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Natasha,
Mayer and I are from the same state (Connecticut).
He DID NOT grow in an “upper crust” family at all. LOL. And one of the wealthiest cities in the state? LOL!!! Southern CT is very industrial with some pockets of wealth, mainly in parts of Fairfield County. That’s the problem with being a Wikipedia scholar. It doesn’t give you much of the whole picture at all.
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Gahhhh! My eyes burn!!!!
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[Passes brain bleach to leigh]
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Thad, I have no idea what you’re on about. Seriously. I don’t. I don’t know if you’re just trying to play devil’s advocate or what. There is nothing particularly indicative of “white trash” in his comments. Maybe this is a cultural difference, but white people I know, who are mostly upper class, make similar remarks, expletives and all.
No one is particularly concerned with his image. More than half of the people commenting here and elsewhere are just now figuring out who he is. When judging his comments, they are concerned with the comments themselves.
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Natasha, you and I will just have to agree to disagree on this one. Though, for the record, other folks with more practice at Bubba spotting than me don’t find Johnny boy to be too “upper crust” either.
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An interesting followup story to this ordeal:
http://www.usmagazine.com/celebritynews/news/john-mayer-breaks-down-on-stage-1970241
Basically, Mayer got tearful onstage and apologized for his tactless remarks. The heat got to him.
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I may be scarred for life. Omigosh! 😉
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Such a considerate lil’ gutter emo, innit he?
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mynameismyname,
He DID NOT grow in an “upper crust” family at all. LOL. And one of the wealthiest cities in the state? LOL!!! Southern CT is very industrial with some pockets of wealth, mainly in parts of Fairfield County. That’s the problem with being a Wikipedia scholar. It doesn’t give you much of the whole picture at all.
I didn’t look at Wikipedia, don’t try that with me. I’m a fan of his (or was). He grew up in Fairfield, Connecticut, which has been identified as one of the richest cities in the US. I was not referring to the county of Fairfield.
I also lived in Conn. at one point so unless you know him personally, your comments are as good as anyone else’s.
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Mayer isn’t from your home state. You don’t know people who know him. CT is a small state. So, there’s nothing to argue about. Again, he grew up in an “average” household and Southern CT isn’t this huge region of wealth. That’s a false image.
Class has nothing to do with the degree of a white Americans’ prejudice.
What do you guys make of Mayer’s tearful apology? Click the link above for the “scoop”.
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mynameismyname, so are you going to claim to be more informed about him simply because he is from your home state? I wasn’t aware one could do that. I have lots of celebrities I have the inside scoop on if that’s the case.
I’ll agree with you on the class point.
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Yes, Mayer’s brother Carl and I had a mutual friend. So, I know first hand that he’s hardly from a upper crust background. Matter of fact, a guy I know named Clay did some work on Mayer’s first album. I remember him mentioning Mayer before his offical debut was released. This just goes to show that this is a small world! LOL.
And um, CT is one of the wealthiest (if not THE wealthiest) states in the nation. Yet, the vast majority of the state’s population is HARDLY “upper crust” or “wealthy”. Ha! They wish!
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@mnimn:
His tearful apology is bs. It’s definitely not sincere. He’s been a d*ck for the longest time and he made no apologies whatsoever…so why would it matter now? Crocodile tears, I say.
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mynameismyname, I would believe you, but this is “teh innernets.” I don’t know who you are and if you’re telling the truth. But, by any accounts, he is not from a white trash background.
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LOL @ Thad
Seriously I don’t get what the hoopla is all about. He’s kinda cute in a weird carcass way, but he doesn’t ‘dig’ the black girls. That’s totally cool dude 🙂 LOL !
There may be some hurt feelings I suspect…oops did i say that out loud?!!lol
What will be will be..
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boooo! his comments are very typical of White commenters on anti-racist blogs which is why I wasn’t so up in arms. I expected him to assert his White male privilege in his comments. For the love of God many Black women are not upset at the fact that he doesn’t want to sleep with Black women, his analogy and excution of not liking or desirng Black women is the issue.
One thing I want to point out is why are so many Black Americans are apologetic to him and his inflammatory words but shut down Rush Limbaugh in a second? Is it because he is a Well Intentioned White Liberal who plays and sings well? lol Black folks need to get off that.
I read his context of the word usage so I’m going to need people to stop being condscending to me because of me objecting to his comments because they weren’t offended. I’m not offended at all I just expect some White people to put their foot in their mouths at times. He was wrong period and has to take responsibility.
All the people defending him need to quit. He will be fine because his career is not in jeopardy. He is White male and his albums will sale again lol
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Who the hell is John Mayer?
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I agree with mynameismyname upthread. His remarks pretty much mirror the same tired and entrenched cultural and racial beliefs of the majority of white males in America , so it’s really not surprising that he strongly prefers his own race and that weak conciliatory nod to a couple of Black women is lame and pathetic. Most white guys would agree with him–they like white women and they find Black repellant. What’s new.
Playboy is a platform to be down and dirty, outrageous and edgy. Women celebs and starlets do the same thing in GQ and Maxim. He’s just not smart enough to pull of anything even remotely witty, except to continue to look stupid and an attention wh*re.
In regards to being Black, the Black people I’m around don’t even think much of John Mayer if at all. So this street cred he desperately thinks is his birth right in the black community, is practically non-existent except in his small mind so all his blathering on about being Black is just the same tired cr*p that White guys use to accentuate their unending entitlement.
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Mayhue,
So true.
The whole “hood pass” that Mayer is alleged to have is because of his relationship with a few pop-rappers. Kanye West, Questlove from the Roots, Nelly, Jay-Z, Jermaine Dupri and some others have all either collaborated with Mayer or have publically sung his praise.
I guess some whites see the praise of a few industry cats in the mainstream ‘urban’ music world as signs of a greater “ghetto” acceptance.
I should also note that I have seen several black people, non-celebrity, who were fans of his music. His fanbase is vastly white female but he has more black fans than say…Megadeth. LOL.
Dani,
I agree. Yet, Mayer’s comments are just so…typically white that I can’t get outraged. We all know how it goes. That train is never late.
Who’s say that Mayer’s comments weren’t meant to spike up record sales? His latest release was falling down the charts, maybe he needed a little publicity boost? LOL. I mean, he used Jennifer Aniston and Jessica Simpson as bait for the press and well as his many tweets, so it’s not like he above obvious ploys for attention. But this time, he went too far and found himself in a Public Relations nightmare.
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@ mynameismyname
I’m laughing at his entitlement of saying that “Black people love him” [When he said that it reminded of that Kat Williams joke that he made about Hillary Clinton’s entitlement of winning that Black vote. He was like “She act like she know us” lol that literally entered my mind when he said that] and to speak for Black people on being Black. Dude that’s not your place. That is racism 101 for many White people and that is to not make yourself center stage on people of color’s experiences. Boooo! again to that and the many dim witted Black people who defended him because he is Well Intetioned White Liberal who plays the guitar well. If we can condemn Rush Limbaugh than we can condemn him.
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^^^^^
Hahahaha!
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Sorry, I meant that for the poster who said “who the hell is Joh Meyer. I guess I didn’t type it fast enough!
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“John Mayer is a jew, i wonder what he would say if a black female celeb said: My vagina is anti Semitic, i don’t like jewish men but i find seinfield and jimmy kimmel kind of hot,”
Jimmy Kimmel is not Jewish in the least. His full name, “James Christian Kimmel”, kind of gives that away off the bat, but it’s true regardless.
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When I first heard about the interview I wa like “Who the hell is John Mayer” I have never heard of him before never heard a single song then I though why would they ask him those question and this guy is a fool about do black women throw them selves at him obviously not again who is he?
How do black people like him what has he done? As far as I am concered he is a nobody. And why is talking about Kerry Washington?
I heard that he does this ish a lot spewing garbage and all and I think this screenshot from family guy sums it up for me
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i never understood the attraction people had for mayer…he looks ugly to me and i don’t like his songs…i don’t know why but from the very first time he popped up on the scene he just really rubbed me the wrong way…
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besides what john mayor said in playboy is no where close to offensive as what john wayne said back in the 1970s, now that was just really wrong and people actually tried to claim he wasn’t racist even though that interview proved otherwise!
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on Fri 12 Feb 2010 at 05:05:24 Dave
“John Mayer is a jew, i wonder what he would say if a black female celeb said: My vagina is anti Semitic, i don’t like jewish men but i find seinfield and jimmy kimmel kind of hot,”
Jimmy Kimmel is not Jewish in the least. His full name, “James Christian Kimmel”, kind of gives that away off the bat, but it’s true regardless.
yes, and “hilary from fresh prince of bel air isn’t black, she’s biracial (her dad is white)
i was just trying to stereotype and make assumptions like mayer did 🙂
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I despise yuppie liberal white guys like Mayer, for one, they seem to always think they’re above everyone else, and then they think everyone loves them because they’re so ‘edgy’ and ‘cool’ because they “get things”, and they have minority friends.
typical granola hipster who thinks black people smile all day and think he’s a ‘special white child’ because he can ‘sang the blues’ and play the guitar.
I despise his black enablers even more, he tweets he’s sorry and black people open their arms and welcome him back in the game and everything is fine and dandy.
Until the next celebs opens their mouth and says the ‘N’ word only to apologize and everything going back to normal…damn, am i the only one who sees a pattern here?
Like i said earlier, if a black female celeb said ONE negative thing about a jewish person all hell would break loose and it would take her forever to get back in the game, if ever.
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First, just using the n-word should be enough to condemn him. It is bad enough how white people bend over backwards to avoid seeing something as racist – but to give him a pass for using the n-word, something I thought they agreed was clearly racist, would be sinking to new lows.
Second, no one expects him to go for black women, but then neither do they expect him to express his lack of desire in such a gratuitously offensive manner – in public, no less. I do not particularly go for Jewish women, for example, but then neither do I compare my penis to Hitler. What in the world would have to go through my head to say something like that? To even think it MIGHT be funny or clever? What a douchebag.
And as to Kerry Washington, even if everything he says about her is true, it is beyond low to say it in public and to say it the way he said it. He owes her an apology that is equally public.
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Always Right said:
“i don’t know why but from the very first time he popped up on the scene he just really rubbed me the wrong way…”
Same here.
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What white chump mush from Meyer. Definitly trying to come off cool and hip. If this is the kind of white words the BW say that turns them off about WM, then i agree.
I remember when Playboy used to do interveiws with Miles Davis. Now there is someone who has something to say. His autobiography reads like Malcolm x’s street part in his book. Miles knew racism first hand, was a succesful black man in the fifties and sixties and was hated by many racists for having rich cars and fine women. He was beat by the police in New York for standing outside his gig getting a smoke.That is when racism really reared its ugly head.
Miles changed the face of music 4 or 5 times , now that is somebody I would like to hear from.
And it kind of puts this whole thing in perspective to the backdrop of how white people in America have been stealing from black music and getting the success and recognition to get Playboy interveiws and say stupid things.
In 100 years, the gods the media has shoved down our throats, like the Beatles , Bob Dylan and the Rolling Stones will be diminished and they will be studying the groups of Miles Davis and John Coltrane as to what was the real cutting edge music in the early 60’s.
Its already happening. The major institutions of learning with music programs have jazz on its curriculums, not the Beatles, because jazz has real depth to study . There is something profound there .
Jazz has been plauged from the beginning of this phenominon of whites copying it and getting the success. The first group to be recorded doing jazz was a white group and one of their members said blacks had nothing to do with inventing jazz.
But, the hype and the media keep on rolling , shoving mediocre artists down our throats and leaving out hundreds of more talented musicians to struggle hard lives in the background, languishing in obscurity.
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Me, too. He’s also overrated as a singer, musician, an songwriter.
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Abagond sez:
First, just using the n-word should be enough to condemn him. It is bad enough how white people bend over backwards to avoid seeing something as racist – but to give him a pass for using the n-word, something I thought they agreed was clearly racist, would be sinking to new lows.
Yeah, OK. One strike for him thinking he could use the n word and get away with it. That was very, very stupid of him.
Second, no one expects him to go for black women, but then neither do they expect him to express his lack of desire in such a gratuitously offensive manner – in public, no less. I do not particularly go for Jewish women, for example, but then neither do I compare my penis to Hitler. What in the world would have to go through my head to say something like that?
See, this is where I get off the “let’s roast Johnny” trolley. I have heard so many statements like this coming out of the mouths of Americans, both black and white, that I’m pretty much forced to conclude that, while racist, it’s part of your general culture. Johnny’s mistake here isn’t that he expressed his lack of sexual desire towards black women, it’s that he did it in the most gross and gratuitous way possible. But if his sentiment is racist (and, btw, I fundamentally think it is), then it’s very hard to me to not see all those other black and white people saying “I (don’t) go for X chicks/guys” as racist, too.
What’s racist in this? The belief that race controls sexual behavior. Like I said, I’d be willing to lay down good money that 75% of the U.S. believes this – black or white – and that close to 50% of the commentators on this site do, too.
What a douchebag.
Precisely. And a stoooopid douchebag to boot. But isn’t it interesting that the only time the media is willing to shout “racism” is when some absolute piece of fluff like this occurs?
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For the record, I don’t believe I’ve ever heard any of Johnny’s songs.
Can some American pop-meister give me a clue as to one I might not have heard?
Oh, and by the way, you people who are saying “Boycott Johnny!”, pull your thumbs out. You’re living in the 20th century.
My suggestion to you is that you heigh your butts over to http://www.thepiratebay.com and download every single John Mayer MP3 you can find. Post a link to them in your blog’s index.
Let’s share Johnny’s genius with the world, shall we? He deserevs to be heard by everyone.
For free.
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^”…as to one I MIGHT have heard?”
Meaning top 40 pablum that may have made it down here to Brazil.
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I do believe anyone who states, for whatever reason, that would never be with a person of a specific race (even their own), is racist. Well, perhaps not a hard core one, but that is a racist way of thinking. Since most of the people are racists anyway, that should not surprise anyone.
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The belief that race controls sexual behavior. Like I said, I’d be willing to lay down good money that 75% of the U.S. believes this – black or white – and that close to 50% of the commentators on this site do, too.
I certainly don’t. But many do believe that being unattracted to one race or the other is just a preference. I was just discussing this topic with a guy yesterday who wholeheartedly believes that one could be attracted to certain races, and not to others, and it could have nothing to do with racism and media indoctrination. I asked him to first please tell me what constitutes race.
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I don’t believe race controls sexual behaviour. Thad, are you referring to my comments on the other page? I never said race controls sexual behaviour; but yes, I do believe social/cultural factors (such as religious views) can influence one’s sexual behaviour.
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“I do believe anyone who states, for whatever reason, that would never be with a person of a specific race (even their own), is racist. Well, perhaps not a hard core one, but that is a racist way of thinking.”
I agree. I can’t believe how people who comment at this site, who are so concerned about racism, not only make lists of groups they are into but also in some cases rank order them. All this makes me uncomfortable, though this may be how the majority thinks.
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FG,
Making lists is borderline objectifying and sexist, but I am not sure if it’s racist by nature. I think it’s fair to admit to yourself you’re not attracted to certain physical features. There’s nothing wrong with that. See, I am not really attracted to blond men with blue eyes. At all. Like Abagond would say, I am simply not wired that way. There’s nothing wrong with having preferences.
However, stating that you’d never (ever, ever) consider dating people of one race (whatever it may be: yours or different than yours, and regardless of your race) is racist in nature.
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FG,
I agree. I can’t believe how people who comment at this site, who are so concerned about racism, not only make lists of groups they are into but also in some cases rank order them. All this makes me uncomfortable, though this may be how the majority thinks.
Who has done this? I know abagond once made a list of the groups of women he is generally attracted to, but I haven’t seen others. I’ve seen plenty of lists, but they are not based on race.
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“Making lists is borderline objectifying and sexist, but I am not sure if it’s racist my nature. I think it’s fair to admit to yourself you’re not attracted to certain physical features. There’s nothing wrong with that. See, I am not really attracted to blond men with blue eyes. At all. Like Abagond would say, I am simply not wired that way. There’s nothing wrong with having preferences.”
See, I think the idea that judging certain racially distinctive features unattractive is problematic. One reason why there is large scale discrimination against and devaluation of non-whites in American society is that there is a sense that European features are just more appealing or more normal.
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Leaveumthinking,
Did you really have to post that pic? That is so wrong.lol
The truth is, men do have those opinions about black women – white, black, ect.
Just look at this blog for instance. Most of the nice things said about female commentors are by other women. The men, most black, seem to prefer the non-black women. That’s just my observation.
Not that I care, but it is worth noticing.
It’s real.
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@FG
See, I think the idea that judging certain racially distinctive features unattractive is problematic. One reason why there is large scale discrimination against and devaluation of non-whites in American society is that there is a sense that European features are just more appealing or more normal.
I can’t say I disagree here. What you’re saying does make sense. However, like Natasha W, I don’t remember any lists apart from Abagond’s. And his lists- as sexist as they are- don’t really show that European features are more appealing or more normal. So please, explain what you’re referring at.
Also, there’s a difference between “judging features unattractive” and stating “I am not attracted to…” I know many women find men with blue eyes very attractive, for example. So I’d never say that feature is unattractive, or that blue eyed people are ugly, or that I never dated a blue eyed guy. But that doesn’t change the fact that I (personally, as an individual) find dark eyed men more attractive. There’s something about dark eyes that I like, that’s all.
Yes, I know this “is not the same”, but I don’t know how else to explain it. I do think our views on race play certain role in forming our preferences, and yes, we should talk about it. But I don’t buy “political correct beauty”, where you have to pretend to be equally attracted to all the types of people of the desired sex. I bet you have your preferences, FG, just like anybody else. Nothing wrong with that, unless you go to fetishizing or objectification.
What I DO find racist is claiming you could never be with a person of a given race.
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Thad
I can only tell you that a couple of his videos probably came to Brazil . What I can say for myself, after hearing a lot of hype about him , or, seeing him talked about on forums, when ever I saw a video of him, I just cant remember it. It has so little affect on my taste , that , I cant even tell you what it is about, like so much other mediocre culture that comes down the pike.
No offence to Meyer lovers, its only opinion , I dont state it as fact.
I got to say, after even reading more of the interview, he just leaves a bad taste . I guess any artist can be full of himself after some media exposure, but, these provokers who just have some gross statements on the tip of their toungue about race or women to look irreverant and edgy cool, its a total turn off.
Miles could leave a bad taste too, but he was a genius who changed music.
I sure dont trust a white guy who slithers the n word off their toungue just because they have been hanging with rappers ( I know Thad agreed about that) .The ones who think its ok because they hear it used by people to difuse the ugly word that was meant for them, to demean them into submision .
Oh yeah, they will tell you, im not prejudice , its just a word, my buddy sais it all the time…
Where is their sensitivity ?
And , where I agree, Americans are uptight with race and sex , going into his description of his David Duke dick, and, then describing the whiteness of some black actresses adds up to a revealing packedge. Not to mention the rest of his interview, its just so self absorbed. David Duke racist? Im not going to acuse him of that, but , race insensitive , for sure.
I have to say, a long long time ago, because Im white, I remember an awful lot of white guys getting together and rattling prejudices and the n word around a lot.
But , im really happy to say that , when Im around a lot of white people in the States, I dont hear them indulging in that kind of thing.
Maybe I just have a better class of freinds now.
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Thad (and others who wonder who the hell John Mayer is):
I looked at the top 100 songs in Brazil for each year since 2002 – no John Mayer. So it is possible you never heard his stuff. In any case, here are the two songs I most remember of his:
“Your Body is a Wonderland” (2002)
Waiting on the World to Change (2006)
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Mira asks:
I don’t believe race controls sexual behaviour. Thad, are you referring to my comments on the other page?
No.
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Then what?
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Mira sez,
Making lists is borderline objectifying …
Can someone explain to me how “objectifying” became a demon word?
Hell, objectification is the primary impulse of late capitalism. Just look at what Emilé Durkheim or Max Weber have to say.
Complaining that a certain attitude is “objectifying” is a bit like complaining that supermarkets only exist to make money.
Yeah. So? Or better yet, what’s your proposed solution?
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Hell, objectification is the primary impulse of late capitalism.
And who says capitalism is a good thing?
(ok, now I’ll be flamed)
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Mira, I’m just refering to the impressions I peick up here, the number of times one needs to explain to folks that race doesn’t control X sort of behavior, that sort of thing. It ain’t the Steve Sailors I’m talking about, either.
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What I’m asking is: who said that race controls sexual behaviour? I never saw any comments that explore that issue.
It would be a good idea for a post, though.
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Complaining that a certain attitude is “objectifying” is a bit like complaining that supermarkets only exist to make money.
You mean they are? I always thought they were there for my enjoyment along with shopping malls. Thanks for disillusioning me.
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I think capitalism sucks, Mira. Got a viable alternative? I’m all ears.
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Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny are also probably not real, Herneith. I stress the “probably”. 😀
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@Thad:
Thad, first the shopping malls and grocery stores, now Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny! You are killing me!;)
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I think capitalism sucks, Mira. Got a viable alternative? I’m all ears.
Unfortunately, no. Capitalism works because it acknowledges people’s real motives and their real nature. Some other systems, that treat people as being much better than they really are, are all doomed. So no, I don’t know of an alternative. But it doesn’t mean I have to like capitalism. It does suck.
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thanks 4 posting the videos abagond, i’m not familiar w/ those songs. he seems like a pretty white artist though to be honest. Still never heard a bw say anything either good or bad about the guy…i don’t understand the hood pass thing at all still
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Abagond, I love those two songs. But it’s very hard to see him the same way. “Waiting on the World to Change” is so ironic right now. I almost caught myself playing “Daughters” this morning. I’m experiencing some terrible cognitive dissonance.
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Let’s all agree on something. This goof is a sac of turd in cheap clothes.
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Unfortunately, no. Capitalism works because it acknowledges people’s real motives and their real nature.
OK. So when we whine about “objectification” we are essentially whining about something we can’t change. We might as well be whining about the death of hunter/gatherer economies.
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Well, as someone who is flirting with anarcho primitivism, I must say I do whine about it. On the other hand, I am not an anarcho primitivist, not really; I know I would not be able to live in such a society. Spoiled brat I am. So, while I don’t believe in any systems, I can still criticize those systems, right?
Anyway, objectifying (wo)men is sexist in nature, isn’t it?
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I never liked his voice OR music, and i always told my friends that i found him douche-y and he never rubbed me the right way.
it feels good to be right.
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Anyway, objectifying (wo)men is sexist in nature, isn’t it?
Is it? It seems to me that that’s become part of feminist dogma. No one’s ever proved it. No one’s really ever discussed it, philosophically speaking. It’s just a rhetorical point which has hardened into dogma.
People don’t like to be treated as if they were objects, and yet the basis of modern capitalism is this and we do it all the time.
Women do it all the time, to each other and to men. They just happen to notice it when the objectifying eye onvolves sex and it’s directed against them. Then, and ONLY then, does objectification seem.
So no, I’m not convinced. I think that in a society which sonstantly objectifies people, it is innocent in the extreme to extract one form of objectification and hold it up as, say, sexist while ignoring the others.
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Thad is…very…he is just very….V-E-R-Y
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John Mayer’s background is middle class. He’s from Fairfield, Connecticut, which is very white.
His father was a high school principal and his mother a high school teacher. Very middle class.
He’s representative of the white north American frat boys (the types who watch and love The Hangover).
I don’t think he was trying to be racist. The opposite.
He never said he had a ‘hood’ pass. It’s the opposite. What he said was that he cannot have a “n-word pass” because he’s NOT black and will never be able to relate to the struggles of black (hence the quip about not being rejected at a restaurant).
He has a ‘douchebag’ complex–a desire to be the center of attention, by being witty and clever. It backfired because he talks in circles and many people have reading comprehension problems. Futhermore, he used racially charged words like “David Duke, n-word and white supremacist,” which threw people off.
I hope this humbles him and he returns to making music instead of opening his ‘stupid mouth.’
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Thad,
Women can and do objectify men, and can also be sexists. I wasn’t speaking about men only. You don’t have to be defensive.
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How’s this for sexist? What’s a mans favourite seven course meal? A six pack and a hot dog.
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Must… resist… laughing…at… sexist… joke!
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Isnt sex itself objectifying ? Dont both people try to be the object of desire for the other person ? Or they are objectifying about someone else in their head ?
Doesnt the bible itself in Corinthius 7 talk about people who are married have to be submissive to their partner to do what they want them to do when they have sex ? Meaning they both have to be sex objects for the other.
Dont we all secretly want to be sex objects ?
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Mira, how in the world am I being defensive?
My point is that objectification is only criticized as evil when it involves women and sex. My question is why is that?
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How do you get a man to do sit-ups?
Put the T.V. remote between his legs.
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“How do you get a man to do sit-ups?
Put the T.V. remote between his legs.”
That sounds like something that John Mayer clown would do.
Hahahahaha!!!!
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Isnt sex itself objectifying ? Dont both people try to be the object of desire for the other person ?
Excellent point, B.R.
I’d say that the problem isn’t objectification. I’d say the problem is more to what degree can you manipulate or control that objectification to your own satisfaction.
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Mira, how in the world am I being defensive?
I don’t know, some of your posts concerning objectification did sound like it. Sorry if it wasn’t your intent.
My point is that objectification is only criticized as evil when it involves women and sex. My question is why is that?
Because life is full of double standards. Which is not a good thing. Objectification is never a good thing, imo.
Well, speaking of jokes, I don’t (gasp!) hate sexist jokes, be it about men or women. But I think that it’s a cultural thing. In my culture, jokes are not considered to be highly offensive (as I think they’re treated on the west).
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I still can’t get over the fact that douche bag there thought it would be sexy to take a picture of himself wearing a Borat suit.
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Hmmm… It seems you understand “objectification” a bit differently than I do. To be objectified doesn’t mean to be sexually wanted, but to be treated as an object for fulfilling someone’s desire. You can be sexually desired but still treated as a person.
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Objectification is never a good thing, imo.
Why isn’t it?
You see, this is what I mean by dogma, Mira. People will say “objectification is bad”, but can they even tell you what objectification is and why it is bad? No.
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You see, this is what I mean by dogma, Mira. People will say “objectification is bad”, but can they even tell you what objectification is and why it is bad? No.
I can say why I see it as a bad thing. It’s always a bad thing to be seen not as a person, but as an object or an instrument. People can choose to objectify themselves, too, and it’s not a good thing.
Now, I am not saying it’s possible to completely get rid of it; in a way, people do see others as objects (in one way or the other), but it should be kept on a minimal level.
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How many times do people REALLY and ONLY see people as a thing or an instrument?
I’d say it’s a hell of a lot more likely for this to occur in the checkout counter line or when you pay your bus fare, exactly as Durkheim believed, than it is when some guy looks at you and thinks “Hey, nice tits”.
And yet it is exactly this second situation which so many people understand to be “objectifying”, even though it probably isn’t. I mean, the fact that the guy enjoys looking at your body does not necessarily imply he thinks you’re a sex doll.
So what I’m saying is that if objectification were a bad thing, then we’re really looking for it in the wrong places. Objectification contributes to anomié, that’s what I’d say. But some guy looking at you in sexual terms is not exactly objectification.
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To be objectified doesn’t mean to be sexually wanted, but to be treated as an object for fulfilling someone’s desire.
Which, of course, is what you do every time you walk into a McDonalds and order a cheeseburger from the person behind the counter… right?
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Thad said:
“But isn’t it interesting that the only time the media is willing to shout “racism” is when some absolute piece of fluff like this occurs?”
Right. If racism were only a matter of a few overpaid fools shooting off their mouth – like Mayer and Imus – it would not be a big deal.
American racism is like a huge oil slick that is slowly killing the sea life. Every now and then it catches on fire here and there. The press reports the fires (Mayer, Gates, Rev. Wright, Imus, Sean Bell, riots) but never the oil slick or the dying animals.
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Yes. Though I must admit that, due to the socialistic heritage, many people working here are still refusing to be objectified like it’s still 1975.
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Nice analogy, Abagond.
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L says,
on Fri 12 Feb 2010 at 10:44:03 L
I despise yuppie liberal white guys like Mayer, for one, they seem to always think they’re above everyone else, and then they think everyone loves them because they’re so ‘edgy’ and ‘cool’ because they “get things”, and they have minority friends.
typical granola hipster who thinks black people smile all day and think he’s a ’special white child’ because he can ’sang the blues’ and play the guitar.
I despise his black enablers even more, he tweets he’s sorry and black people open their arms and welcome him back in the game and everything is fine and dandy.
Until the next celebs opens their mouth and says the ‘N’ word only to apologize and everything going back to normal…damn, am i the only one who sees a pattern here?
Like i said earlier, if a black female celeb said ONE negative thing about a jewish person all hell would break loose and it would take her forever to get back in the game, if ever.
abagond says,
First, just using the n-word should be enough to condemn him. It is bad enough how white people bend over backwards to avoid seeing something as racist – but to give him a pass for using the n-word, something I thought they agreed was clearly racist, would be sinking to new lows.
Second, no one expects him to go for black women, but then neither do they expect him to express his lack of desire in such a gratuitously offensive manner – in public, no less. I do not particularly go for Jewish women, for example, but then neither do I compare my penis to Hitler. What in the world would have to go through my head to say something like that? To even think it MIGHT be funny or clever? What a douchebag.
And as to Kerry Washington, even if everything he says about her is true, it is beyond low to say it in public and to say it the way he said it. He owes her an apology that is equally public.
laromana says,
L and abagond, I completely agree with your comments.
I’ve wondered why EVERYONE feels they have the right to make GRATUITOUS DEFAMATORY/DEGRADING, RACIST, ANTI-BW comments about ANY BW (regardless of her status) whenever/wherever they like WITHOUT ANY FEAR OF NEGATIVE CONSEQUENCES.
What I’ve concluded is that the ANTI-BW RACISM/HATE that has HISTORICALLY been a fundamental part of American media/culture and the UNWILLINGNESS of MOST BM/”BC”(excluding abagond and ANY likeminded men of ANY RACE) to DEFEND the HONOR/HUMANITY/DIGNITY/FEMININITY of BW against these attacks (instead of going along with/participating in ANTI-BW bashing-eg. D.H. Hughley, Jamie Foxx, Wayans Brothers, Thug Rappers, etc.), have left BW open to UNCALLED for RIDICULE/DISRESPECT.
That is why a MORONIC/ANTI-BW RACIST DORK/DOUCHE like John Mayer feels comfortable spewing his ANTI-BW BS.
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Why do people keep saying Mayer grew up “middle class” like it means something! LOL. Class doesn’t differentiate racism among whites. Ignorance is ignorance.
Mayer, like another poster noted, has a complex. He likes being center of attention. Mayer was a geek in high school. And still is a geek. (That’s part of his public image). He’s compensating.
I would to address Islandgirl’s comment about men’s preference in women. Um, the black male posters on here prefer non-black women?!
DO I NOT EXIST?!?! LOL. What about Vindicator? He prefers black women as well.
I hear some black women complain about black men and their alleged, widespread lust and mating with non-black women but they forget one thing:
Most non-black women don’t want a black man.
And black men overwhelmingly go for black women. And vice versa. Why would or should it be any other way?
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Cries of racism in the press? Yeah, the other day at NBC Studios a black musician who plays in the band on the Jimmy Kimmel Show cried “racism” when he saw the studio lunch menu.
In honor of Black History Month, the black chef put together a meal of fried chicken, collard greens, black-eyed peas and corn-bread. The musician said the meal was racist.
Yeah, the racism is all over the place.
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Myname, I was definitely not thinking about you when I posted that. I KNOW you like black women.lol But it’s just as well because, fortunately for us, it seems like most black men who primarily like black women are the intelligent, well read and grounded type. Like you, myname. So that’s a plus. But it seems that MOST do. And I’m speaking of other men besides you and Vindicator.
Most black men that I see with someone else, honestly are the ones that I wouldn’t consider anyway. Just like in the celebrity world, the guys who date non-black (Tiger, Taye Diggs, Cuba, Seal, ect) are ones that I wouldn’t think twice about.
Thanks for the comment!
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Ezulie,
One of the few whites that I’ve seen pull off the jazzy, soulful music is Sade’s band.
They are very authentic and soulful. There is nothing artificial about them.
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Islandgirl,
Thanks for the compliment! It just annoys me when I hear some black women cry about black men “flying away”. One, because it’s the opposite from the truth. Two, because why shouldn’t a black man not love a black woman?
You’re also right. Most of the black women who don’t date black women do so because black women don’t want them. Tiger and Seal are two celebs that most black women never checked for. So it makes sense that they ended up with a white woman.
Mayer’s makes lbland, inear, middle of the road pop music. He’s light years away from Sade. Sade is an original. Has anyone heard the new album?
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reading this, all i can say is this man is stupid. i don’t think he is a racist but he did make an ignorant statement about black women but i’m not that mad because it’s not shocking how a white male thinks of black women. what i don’t get is some of the women who say they won’t date a white man because of slavery days and how black women were treated but because he’s not interested in black women or his penis is not into black women, he’s a racist. to be honest i could care less of what white people think about black people because most of them always have something to say about us so why get riled up about it?
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plus i didn’t know he had anything black fans at all. but he has some good songs. just don’t think he’s all that like some make him to be believe. and he is ugly and not attractive. it’s like when pick people to be most attractive aren’t even worth looking at at all.
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John Mayer’s claim that “black people love me” is not true as far as I know. But that is not to say he does not have black fans. He does. Here is the blog entry of one of them and how she took the John Mayer interview (not well). Warning: the lead picture shows him in a Borat thong:
http://revolutiongrl.blogspot.com/2010/02/shut-fuck-up-john-mayer.html
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Mynameismyname sez:
Two, because why shouldn’t a black man not love a black woman?
You realize that this is just flipping Mayer’s comment over and that it’s as racist, in essence, as anything he’s said?
It naturalizes the idea that like should hang with like, that individual idiosyncracies should “naturally” be overwhelmed by racial solidarity…
This is exactly the point I’ve been on about since this thread began: Mayer does not fundamentally believe anything different from many – probably most – of the posters here. He is saying “like goes with like”. This is exactly what Myname has just impled as well.
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Right, but on that subject no one is taking Mayer to task for preferring white women. In America that is expected behaviour. It is for what he said about black women (among other things).
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Ok, but let’s think of a hypothetical interview, in which Mayer says something like: “Oh, I prefer white women, I am attracted to them”. Would people find that offensive?
And another thing I wanted to ask, regarding the n-word bomb.
What was so shocking about it? The fact he, a white man, actually pronounced it, or the general statement he gave? Because, let’s face it, if he were black, he would be allowed to use this particular racial slur due to language privilege (now, I don’t think using that word is an appropriate thing even for the black people, but it’s obviously people got angry not because the word was used, but the fact a white man used it).
So, if he said something like: “And by the way, it’s sort of a contradiction in terms, because if you really had a hood pass, you could call it a n-word pass”- would people consider his words to be somehow more appropriate? Because that’s the same thing! Not pronouncing a word doesn’t make any difference, we all know what he meant to say anyway.
Opinions?
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For those who have read the full iinterview,
John made also offensive and racist comments about Jews, Asian, Women and Gay (this latest one was pretty discussting to me).
As you can see Jews, black (women), Gay and Asian are easy targets.
I find also quite revealing that John see himself as a White Man only?! He’s part jewish! ( even I know jewish is not a race).
Apparently the mainstream media doesn’t have any problem to identify mixed race white and non-black as a white person.
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I forgot to say, he’s just an attention seeking [whore], he knows that people (like me) only knew him when he started dating Jennifer Aniston, not because of his music.
She put him on the map, until recently I didn’t even know he was a musician.
Also I would like know what was going on the (so-called) journalist’s head?
Where did he get those questions?
this interview seems more like stupid things some would say to make laugh their friends ( not funny at all, by the way), like in a movie with the geek guy who is trying to hard the be accepted with the popular ones.
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Mira:
When Playboy asked “Do black women throw themselves at you?” he could have just said this:
“No.”
And on the subject of hood passes he could have just said:
“Someone asked me the other day, ‘What does it feel like now to have a hood pass?’ I said, ‘I can’t really have a hood pass. I’ve never walked into a restaurant, asked for a table and been told, ‘We’re full.’'”
See how simple that is?
And if he had to talk about the n-word for some strange reason he could do just like I am doing here: calling it “the n-word”. Like “f-word”, “n-word” allows you to talk about the word without having to use it and all that goes with it. He knows that.
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Mira:
The n-word is a racial slur. In America blacks are allowed to use it but not whites. It is like how I am allowed to call my wife a bitch but you are not. Not that it is a good idea even for me to call her that – liikewise with the n-word (in my opinion).
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Thanks for the explanation!
When Playboy asked “Do black women throw themselves at you?” he could have just said, “No”. That simple. It would have avoided the follow-up question: “Let’s put some names out there. Let’s get specific”.
Well, I do believe the interview would ask more about the subject, but that’s irrelevant. What Mayer said about black women, women in general and his body parts was really offensive and unintelligent.
And on the subject of hood passes he could have just said:
“Someone asked me the other day, ‘What does it feel like now to have a hood pass?’ I said, ‘I can’t really have a hood pass. I’ve never walked into a restaurant, asked for a table and been told, ‘We’re full.’’”
So, talking about language privilege is wrong and inappropriate? Sure, we can discuss why, of all things about “being black”, he had to talk about a racial slur that he, as a white man, doesn’t have a right to pronounce, but is talking about language privilege a no-no for some reason?
And if he had to talk about the n-word for some strange reason he could do just like I am doing here: calling it “the n-word”. Like “f-word”, “n-word” allows you to talk about the word without having to use it and all that goes with it. He knows that.
I see. So, people do, for some reason, find it extremely offensive when someone pronounce the word. Like calling it “the n-word” somehow make things better? That doesn’t make much sense to me. Please, understand: I am not trying to ridicule your cultural ways, I am trying to learn.
Ok, I understand you can’t use inappropriate language on TV or in an interview (and that you should use alternatives, such as “the f-word”), but, as far as I understand American society, it’s not like using the n-word by white people is ok, ever. In my culture, using f-word on the news, for example, is not considered appropriate, but it’s perfectly ok to use it in a non-formal context (with friends and family, for example). I don’t think the n-word use is ever considered ok in your culture. Am I right?
It does look there’s a stigma surrounding certain words and actions (such as the n-word or blackface), but to me, as an outsider, it more looks like something done out of PC (and to keep black people quiet), not because people truly, in their hearts, are not racists.
So for example, filmmakers would think twice before making a white character use the n-word in a movie (even if a movie IS about, say, racism in America and set in time when the word was widely used). Same goes for blackface (I remember Roberd Downey Jr was heavily criticized for his role in Thropic Thunder and blackface character. Some people got angry because filmmakers didn’t use a black actor for the role- but HOW could you use a black actor, since it’s about a white actor doing black face, and the blackface nonsense in general? Cast a black actor and make him do a whiteface in his scenes as Kirk Lazarus? Would that be considered more appropriate? But how could a black actor do a blackface?)
I hope this make at least some sense. I am not sure how to explain it. While I do believe people should watch their tongues and try not to be offensive, it’s not the most important thing- people should really learn to accept those who are different than them for whatever reason (minorities, for example), as fully human and truly, in their hearts, accept them for who they are. Not using the n-word is just on the outside and, while not using it is at least a basic courtesy, it doesn’t mean anything. So, while I do find Mayer a man of questionable intelligence who’s crying for attention, I don’t think he’s much worse than your average white guy who would never, never, ever EVER use that word.
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And plus, I don’t think you’re allowed to call your wife like that- unless that’s some kind of an inside joke between you two.
I understand what you’re saying, but still, I don’t really know much about language privilege and how it works.
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Here’s what Roger Ebert had to say on his Twitter to John Mayer regarding black women.
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Abagond said:
”The n-word is a racial slur. In America blacks are allowed to use it but not whites. It is like how I am allowed to call my wife a bitch but you are not. Not that it is a good idea even for me to call her that – liikewise with the n-word (in my opinion).”
Abagond with all due respect that is completely and utterly mind-boggling. Black people are allowed to call thmeselves the N-word? Only in America as you say, not in my part of the world. If blacks call themselves such a despicable word, then I don’t blame white people for following suit!
Everyday on this blog there is outrage at a racist white society and yet within the community black Americans ‘allow’ themselves to use that filthy word? The same word coined by white supremacists that you then embrace to call one another?
I will never understand such double standards.
SMDH
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Mira,
I thought what you said here was interesting:
people should really learn to accept those who are different than them for whatever reason (minorities, for example), as fully human and truly, in their hearts, accept them for who they are
because the fact that people have to “learn” to accept others as fully humans places their own humanity into question. It’s the funny thing about racism–you never hear people say, “I had to learn how not to murder people”, “I had to learn how not to steal”, but on the other side of the coin they have to learn how to treat people like people? Hmm…
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because the fact that people have to “learn” to accept others as fully humans places their own humanity into question. It’s the funny thing about racism–you never hear people say, “I had to learn how not to murder people”, “I had to learn how not to steal”, but on the other side of the coin they have to learn how to treat people like people? Hmm…
Yes, I do believe people have to learn all those things.
And plus, people DO have to learn not to steal (we all learn it, don’t we, at the age of two or three). Now, about murder, I am not sure what to say. I do think it’s in human nature to be opposed to killing your own kind… But I am not sure.
We are all born innocent. We know nothing about the society. It shapes us, and that goes pretty quickly- a 3 or 4 year old child will know much about his society ways and, if it lives in a racist society, it will know about racism. It is also able to be mean to others, mainly those who are different than him. The innocence is gone. At such a young age!
However, the saddest thing:
There’s something about human societies that just make them unable to function without I have no idea what’s that in people to make it like this, which is in a way different than other animal species. I do think it has something to do with instincts, or lack thereof. Animals have instincts to “tell” them how to behave. People don’t. Instincts are natural mechanisms that shape and control behaviour. It doesn’t mean animals can’t learn or have their own personalities- but group as a whole, can function because of instincts. Human groups can’t. I have no idea why is that.
The lack of instincts leaves us with free will, which can work perfectly on a personal level, but in a collective, it shapes the group in ways that will always bring to bad things. Groups fight each other over resources- nothing strange here, so do animals. But still, I do believe the lack of instincts make human nature (if there’s such a thing) the way it is. Hence, wars as- not sure what- preventing overpopulation? And there’s also the need to dislike those who are different- not sure why is that.
What’s considered “different” varies from culture to culture (idea of race in today’s sense is fairly new concept), but you’re taught from infancy to pay attention on those what make groups different. That’s why in a society where race is a major issue for deciding what’s “different”, everyone is racist to some extend. That doesn’t mean it’s a good thing, and yes, it should be unlearned.
What I’m saying is, the fact someone must learn to accept differences is not a surprise; that’s the way societies are built. You can’t define your own group or identity by simply stating what your group is– you always define it in contrast with another, enemy group, by pointing what your group isn’t. “We do/are (insert here), while they (insert here). We’re not like them”.
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Since this interview is already coming up in the comments of this blog, I thought I would do a quick post on it. Kerry Washington, a Black American actress, did a Playboy interview and said some pretty strange stuff – like preferring masturbation to men. Anyway, here are bits of it (see the link below to read the full interview at playboy.com):
Her jew pass:
Someone asked me the other day, “What does it feel like now to have a jew pass?” And by the way, it’s sort of a contradiction in terms, because if you really had a jew pass, you could call it a kike pass. Why are you pulling a punch and calling it a jew pass if you really have a kike pass? But I said, “I can’t really have a jew pass. I’ve never walked into a casting audition only to be told ‘Silverstone? you’re jewish? Welcome!’
On being Jewish (while being black):
What is being Jewish? It’s making the most of your life, not taking a single moment for granted. Taking something that’s seen as a struggle and making it work for you, or you’ll die inside. Not to say that my struggle is like the collective struggle of jewish America. But maybe my struggle is similar to one jew chick’s.
When asked if jewish men throw themselves at her she said:
I don’t think I open myself to it. My vagina is sort of like an anti semitic. I’ve got a rosh hashan heart and a fuckin’ Hitler pussy. I’m going to start dating separately from my vajayjay.
I always thought Harrison Ford was gorgeous. Every black chick loved Jerry from Seinfeld . And Shia labeouf. He’s superhot, and he’s also black-guy crazy. Shia Labeouf would sex you up and get you pregnant like a black guy. Just all of a sudden he’d be like, “Yeah, I got you pregnant, i won’t pay child support.” And you’d be like, “What? you just went down on me, what are you talking about?”
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Honestly, black people didn’t create the n-word or the word ‘ghetto’. But explain to me why black people try to modernize/intellectualize a word that has NO POSITIVE CONNOTATIONS AND NEVER WILL. Rappers use the word 24/7. The use of that word shows that we have internalized the racism historically thrown at us.
Now this does not excuse John Mayer, but I think we need to take a better look at how we treat ourselves and each other. Black people clearly lack respect for themselves and each other. Black people have helped keep the N-word very much alive. I have had arguments with black people who simply refuse to see how using the word shows how little we think of ourselves.
In reference to his preferences in women, that is his prerogative. Its HOW he said what he said that was offensive. Honestly, I highly doubt black women were checking for John Mayer anyhow.
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@ Mira
It does seem like an hypocrisy of using the n-word. However, just because a particular group uses an oppressive word does not mean the outsider of that group has the right to use it. I have friends that are transgender and gay and they use the slur “faggot” and “tranny” positively or negatively amongest themselves. However with me being cisgender and heterosexual its not really my place of using the words regardless of intentions. The word has bad history when heteros use it against them so I just don’t bother using it. That’s kind of John Mayer needs to understand.
My opinion on the n-word/hood pass comment was that he was trying to be witty in making a point and got lost in translation. There was no need of using the word at all to be honest. If he had’ve kept his comment the way abagond suggested, I think many Black people would’ve gave him more props for acknowledging his White priviledge but he is not witty enough to use racial analogies and have the masses understand his viewpoint. Much less he doesn’t have much experience in discussing race relations.
His comment on “Black people love me” was just delusional, arrogant, and definitely misplaced. For one there is small population of Black people who love him and are fans. So for him to write off that small population of Black people that love him as the whole entire race is ridiculous. Also for him speaking on what’s “Black” was also one of those “over staying your welcome” moments. He meant well but he is an outsider of the Black community so speaking on what’s “Black” is just overstepping your boundaries.
His comment on Black women was understandable but the analogy was done in poor taste. I know what he mean about his heart being open to races but his dick being preferring his own. However, that racial analogy once again was done in bad taste of proving a point. John Mayer has to understand when it comes to social issues of race, gender, class, religion, sexuality etc., simplicity is his friend. He doesn’t have alot of experience to construct a witty thought on these issues so his backlash was deserving.
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Mira,
What I mean is that we don’t have an innate desire to steal that has to be “unlearned”, but people paint racism as an innate desire to discriminate that has to be “unlearned”. I know people often talk about the “biology, hardwired” explanations, but I don’t think that explains it as well as socialization does, because if it did, why weren’t we hardwired to distinguish by eye or hair color instead (i.e., all brown-haired, blue eyed = 1 group, all black-haired, brown-eyed = another)? I guess a similar thing I wonder is, with all of this racism talk going on for years, why not just teach kids “not to be racist” at birth so there’s nothing to unlearn later? Is it that people don’t realize they are “racist” until later then start the unlearning? I guess on the structural level I can view the subtleties of racism (after all, all of these studies on discriminatory hiring practices have to, by ethical guidelines, keep their subjects anonymous), but on the individual level it usually seems pretty blatant.
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I don’t think racism is hardwired.
But fear of “the other” exist in every culture. It’s not the same fear, and others are not the same (nor the same characteristics define what makes “other”). In theory, you could imagine a society in which eye colour plays an important role. In that society, dark eyed people would be majority, and blue and green eyed would make a minority, and they could be discriminated against. But there is always something, a “rule” that serves as an important marker for breaking world into “us” and “them”.
The fact it’s not a natural process doesn’t really make much of a difference. We start learning our culture from the day one. The “us” vs “them” thinking becomes the part of who we are. We weren’t born that way, society made us be like it, but the fact it’s a learned behavior means that it can also be unlearned.
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Oh, and to answer this:
I guess a similar thing I wonder is, with all of this racism talk going on for years, why not just teach kids “not to be racist” at birth so there’s nothing to unlearn later?
Because we live in a racist society. Race is important in our world. Especially in multiracial societies.
For example, in my culture, nobody teaches us anything about black people. I mean, we do learn in school, but non-white people are not part of our everyday experience, so they are rarely mentioned. This doesn’t mean we’re not racists, but without history of violence in the past, without non-white people actually living as a minority, without slavery and Jim Crow- that racism must be of a different kind. It usually takes the form of either non thinking about non-white people, or exoticising. That practically means you don’t hear many, if any, stereotypes about non-white people, but you learn a lot of stereotypes about, say, Gypsies.
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Mira,
When I was in Spain there were sooo many stereotypes about gypsies. Even the kids I worked with (all 9 and 10-years-old) knew “never to befriend a gitano“.
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True, Gypsies (Roma people) are discriminated against. But I don’t cal, it racism, because they are white. People (majority) know they’re white, and still discriminate them.
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I think the “us” and “them” thing is common to all societies, but the degree to which it is taken in America between blacks and whites is not. It is an open wound of American society left from the days of slavery that has never properly healed.
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In my part of the world “us” vs “them” is also pretty strong. That’s why I see it as something “normal” (in a way: not surprising). I am not quite sure about other societies, but everything I know about history, archaeology and anthropology tells me that “us vs them” is always strong. Maybe you think this one is worse, Abagond, because you’re at the receiving end for your whole life? And maybe you’re right: maybe “us vs them” based on race in America IS stronger than anything else in the world. Though I doubt this.
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“Don’t teach racism” – of course, but the trouble is that racism is so taken for granted that people are blind to much of it, particularly white people. To not teach racism you first have to know it when you see it.
For example, I doubt that No Slappz understands the racism that underlies his quoting of crime statistics or reading scores. He thinks he is just stating the facts, facts that blacks are unwilling to accept out of their own misbegotten pride. To him American society is more or less just – it is blacks who have something wrong with them.
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“It is an open wound of American society left from the days of slavery that has never properly healed.”
I would like to know peoples opinion why America has built such a heavy devide about this compared to other Caribean and South American countries who have slavery in their history ? They also have heavy wounds that manifest in class societal differances that play out today, but dont seem to be so devided and recialy self concious .Maybe some of these countries do have that devide and i just dont know.
I would surly start with the fact that there is a David Duke mentality by some whites in the States, the n word floating around, ku klux klan history and present, government colusion with real estate agents in the north to create white flight among other reasons.
But this devide is accepted and in full effect on both sides of the racial highway, even as hispanic people now account for 30 percent of the population.
Maybe its suposed to be like New York where every body just hates everybody, but, lives crammed together.
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Whites preserve their privilege. How many whites are actively anti-racist or even question the racial status quo? How many whites are working to overturn racist drug sentencing, equalize public school funding, investing in black or Hispanic communities or live in integrated neighborhoods that are not undergoing gentrification or white flight? Whites may give some lip service to “tolerence” or “equality” but support the status quo. This is laissez faire racism and it is a uniquely white institution in 21st century America.
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I agree that privilege and wealth can be passed down generation to generation like poverty can be passed down from generation to generation. And these generations can be oblivious to realities minorities and immigrants go through.
But, do white people from the Caribean or South America participate in these things to help, you mention ,any more than white Americans ? And if they dont, why dont they have as sharp devide as the USA has ? Maybe they do and I just dont know about all of them. But the places I do know well just dont have the same kind of harsh racial devide as they do in the USA. They have sharp class and poverty issues, but, not the same racial devide.
There might even be more anti Americanism than racial devide ( and let me tell you, at this point, they dont distinguish black Americans from white Americans ).
There were some people in the American Civil Rights movement who were from the west indies , like Stocley Charmichael . But maybe someone here can mention if they think racial devide is in the Caribean countries like the USA.
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White supremacist penises raped and sexually harassed black women until they were able to obtain employment besides domestics in white homes in the late 1960’s. Ignorance is uber-cool white boy racist’s best friend.
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Do white people from the Caribbean or South America participate in these things to help, you mention ,any more than white Americans ?
No, but none of these countries were founded on the principle that “all men are created equal.”
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Abagond sez:
no one is taking Mayer to task for preferring white women. In America that is expected behaviour. It is for what he said about black women (among other things).
OK, so Mayer believes that there are race-coded sexual behaviors. Again, most of America and the posters here believe that sort of racist tripe.
But what did Mayer say about black women, exactly? In the bits posted here, he seems to be claiming that they are not as “slutty” as white women.
Amirite?
Again, many members of this forum believe this, too.
So…?
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eshowoman
subsahara African woman captured and sent into slavery were raped from the moment they were captured by the conquering tribe. Were raped when they hit the slave ship by the sailors, and , were raped in any country they were sent to.
So the fact that the USA was founded on the principle that all men are created equal is the reason that there is so much more resentment and devide in the USA than other countries in the Americas hemisphere who had sub sahara African slaves?
I dont know the racial devide dynamic in all the countries in the American hemisphere , so there may be other countries with as much a racial devide as the USA. But the countries I do know well, just dont have the same 10 lane mac truck black white racial devide the USA has. The black women dont hold a white man ,they might date , responsible for slavery and rape from slavery. This seems to be a specific train of thought running through quite a few American black women when facing the issue of dating a white man.
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And , I can also say, in the countries I do know well, domestics are subjected to a huge amount of sexual harraassment. But, it just doesnt play out in black white hate and racial devision.
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i feel taking a position either way at this point would be… pointless.
thad’s already made all the good points!
(side note: john mayer DID apologize afterwards. he’s nothing if not a politic asshole.)
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I have few comments on John Mayer–I think what he said was offensive, but I wasn’t offended, if that makes sense. If anything, he needs to make a public apology to JS, JA, and KW for their names coming out of his mouth–he doesn’t need to apologize to me for anything.
A friend and I were talking about it, and we said that we couldn’t even figure out what the hell JM was trying to say, let alone decide on the “good” vs. “bad” parts. Lol, if people have to go over your words with a fine tooth comb to find meaning, you should probably stop talking. 😛
Does anyone know why the interviewer asked JM about BW anyway? I’m guessing it came out of the “rappers” conversation, but I notice you don’t hear people asking “Do Asian girls/Hispanic girls throw them at you?” (I’m assuming White girls are seen as the default.) Why? Is it because we have a reputation for being ball-busters? 😛 Seems like the implication is (for some WM) that if you get a Black girl you are really doing something.
Thad,
Who (here) said that White girls are sluttier than Black girls? AFAIK, some said that White girls seems to enjoy giving off the slutty persona more (because they can get away with it), but that’s not the same as calling them sluts, IMO.
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@Jasmin
Does anyone know why the interviewer asked JM about BW anyway?
I wonder this too. Someone here said it must be because he’s supposed to be popular with black people (well, not anymore I guess!)
Who (here) said that White girls are sluttier than Black girls? AFAIK, some said that White girls seems to enjoy giving off the slutty persona more (because they can get away with it), but that’s not the same as calling them sluts, IMO.
Yes, I really wonder where Thad got this “white sluts” thing. I was the one who said black women (sometimes, and not all of them) could be more careful when it comes to sex, because their group is labeled as oversexed, do you have to be double careful (chaste, whatever you want) to be respected. But I never said white women are slutty.
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B.R. sez…
The black women dont hold a white man ,they might date , responsible for slavery and rape from slavery. This seems to be a specific train of thought running through quite a few American black women when facing the issue of dating a white man.
Well, if you’re going to blame potential mates TODAY for historic events 150+ years ago (which they didn’t cause), then my question is why not go lesbian and have done with it?
I mean, probably something like 99.99% of the people who rape women are MEN. And, unlike rape during slavery times, this is still happening today.
Furthermore, even given the continued health of racism across the Americas, the chances are much more in favor of a woman’s rapist being the same “race” as her.
So if we’re going to start making identity politics and history the basis for human sexual/affective relationshios, can you think of any reason why women shouldn’t all go lesbian?
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Jasmin sez:
Who (here) said that White girls are sluttier than Black girls? AFAIK, some said that White girls seems to enjoy giving off the slutty persona more (because they can get away with it), but that’s not the same as calling them sluts, IMO.
Jesus! And people accuse ME of splitting hairs! 😀 😀 😀 😀
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It doesn’t seem like splitting hairs to me. Just like we can distinguish true bisexual women from girls who kiss other girls for male attention, I think there’s a distinction, though not necessarily readily apparent, between a “slut” and a girl who thinks acting like a “slut” will get her male attention. Regardless, if 2 people at minimum have negated the “You all think all White women are sluts” thing, then it seems disgenuous to keep saying “You all think….”
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I do not know this guy, nor of his politics, nor have I read the article in its original form etc. However, reading his interviews I would like to say.
I know its late (well at least in this part of the world) and so it may be affecting my faculties:
With regard to the metaphor:
“When asked if black women throw themselves at him he said:
I don’t think I open myself to it. My d*ck is sort of like a white supremacist. I’ve got a Benetton heart and a fu**in’ David Duke cock. I’m going to start dating separately from my d*ck.”
This does not make sense as it stands, or teh way it is being interpreted on this thread I humbly submit.
1. I don’t think I open myself to it – Black women throwing themselves at him
2. My dick is sort of like a white supremacist – say no more
3. I’ve got a ‘Benetton’ (ie as in United Colour of Benetons, Black, White, Yellow etc here read multi-racial) heart
and now the crux ie metaphor (at 4 and 5)
4. I’ve got a Benetton heart (multi-racial etc)
and
5. a fu**in’ David Duke cock – Was he not of the KKK??
5. I’m going to start dating (multi -racially ie united colour of Benetton, a position which it appears he did not do before but is perpared to do so now, because he goes on to say)
separately
6. from his d*ck (dating exclusively White)
Another tautology spotted ha ha… or just tiredness??
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And still very tired – oh yuk – ha ha ha
On we go with another critical textual analysis
On being black (while being white):
What is being black (while being white)?
It’s making the most of your life, not taking a single moment for granted. Taking something that’s seen as a struggle and making it work for you, or you’ll die inside. Not to say that my struggle is like the collective struggle of black America. But maybe my struggle is similar to one black dude’s.
I am not sure of teh question ie the motive and.or intent behind it, but personally I think it is a good answer
1. What is being black – while being white
2. It’s making the most of your life, not taking a single moment for granted – I would say that this is what most of us as ‘individuals’ would agree upon if we are going to definine our lives as a person irrespective of Black, White etc
3. Taking something that’s seen as a struggle and making it work for you, or you’ll die inside
There’s two ways to look at this. I think the first is to view that life is hard and one has to do and make best in the struggle of life.
Equally it could be interpreted as a metaphor that Black people in the US must keep on fighting, otherwise they will die
Now the qualifiers
4. Not to say that my struggle is like the collective struggle of black America.
5.
But maybe my struggle is similar to one black dude’s. – Which has already been shown in point 2
Personally I think his answers are very thoughtful
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“Well, if you’re going to blame potential mates TODAY for historic events 150+ years ago (which they didn’t cause), ”
“If you are…” lets get it straight ,Thad, you arnt addressing me , because my point was black women from the American hemiphere countries I know well ,dont have this train of thought about dating a white man is dating someone who has a racial history of slavery and rape.
And , I was making the point that some black American women, noted even on this blog, do have this train of thought , that dating a white man, is dating someone who has slavery and raping black female slaves in his racial history in the USA
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I was making the point that some black American women, noted even on this blog, do have this train of thought , that dating a white man, is dating someone who has slavery and raping black female slaves in his racial history in the USA.
J, annaleisha and MerriMay seem to have this view, which brings up my old question:
How is this essentially any different from Mayer’s view – aside from the obvious fact that Mayer chooses to use gutter language to express himself?
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To answer your question – none.
However, I would add from my perspective, I think Mayer is saying completely different to what is being presumed (ie judging by the words on this page)…
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B. R.,
I get so sick of the ignorance and arrogance inherent in the “slavery was over a long time ago” disavowal of white racism. 1) It diminishes the anguish of my female ancestors 2) The rape of black women did not end with slavery. It was another favorite tactic of the KKK and other white supremacist groups during and after reconstruction 3) It was a passage of white manhood in the South and Midwest to “split dark oak” or “split a n**ger” up until the 1960’s. The fact that staunch segreagationalist Jessie Helms had a black daughter should be enough proof that black woman had very little control over their own bodies long after the Emancipation Proclamation.
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It was a passage of white manhood in the South and Midwest to “split dark oak” or “split a n**ger” up until the 1960’s.
I grew up in Wisconsin. Think you could give me a source on that statement re: the midwest? ‘Cause I can tell you without a doubt, it wasn’t a passage of manhood ritual for anyone I know or their elder male relatives.
Furthermore, you’re mistaking Jesse Helms for Strom Thurmond who, while a racist scumbag, was never accused of rape by Carrie Butler, the mother of his African American child, or by that child, Essie Mae Washington-Williams.
Strom is scum, let’s get that straight. But he did put his daughter through college and supported her financially. This is hardly the act of a callous rapist and it’s a lot more than many fathers – black or white – do for their children.
Strom is hardly a good example of the Great White Rapist, eshowoman.
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Poor guy is confused – he doesn’t understand that hanging around Black guys does not equate being Black.
I’m curious as to why he brought up Black women and David Duke in the first place.
Still love “Waiting for the World to Change” – the only song by him that I actually know.
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What he said was totally racist. The fact that people would still be willing to give him a pass is just sad. He’s been a douchebag though, now we just know he’s a douchebag who feels he is above blacks. Surprise
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eshowoman
Well, first of all, I acknowledge the results of bringing slaves to the Americas has been passed down generations as well as racism.
But , to associate that with choosing a partner to date and have sex with is absurd to me.
Guess what, Im tired of that attitude , and the sexual uptightness by Americans in general, and left the country. And Im exceptionaly happy having real relationships with black women who dont judge me for rape and slave owners that arnt even in my family history , and having a mixed race kid who isnt going to be filled with the uptight racial dogma and division of the USA.
EXCEPTIONALY HAPPY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Yeah , I have to deal with anti Americanism, but, Id rather deal with that any day than the racial devide in the USA
But , by all means, eshowman, keep your beleifs all the way to the grave, I dont want to change you , it would put a hurt on my head to try.
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Why in the world is anyone concerned with the dopey comments made by a nitwit like Mayer?
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And best comment goes to…..No Slappz…:applause: 😉
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For the same we are concerned with your comments No_Slappz
Snap as you and Mayer both draw the same card (ie the joker)
he he he he he
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Good one J LOL
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Why in the world is anyone concerned with the dopey comments made by a nitwit like Mayer?
Hey, we concern ourselves with your comments No_slappz, so you’re really in no position to complain. 😀
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Lol, J and Thad, speak for yourself. I am most certainly not concerned with no_slappz’ comments.
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i’m sorry why are they talking about a hood pass, since when is john mayer a white guy that most black people like? hes no robin thicke, robert deniro, eminem or abraham lincoln. those guys have something else less corny about them which is why black women and men alike tend to like them. but why do black people seem to like to claim people as part of their community so much anyway. i even saw an interview recently with kim kardashian, the interviewer was saying she has a hood pass because she seems to prefer black men. he then seemed abit disappointed to hear she preffered george clooney to denzel.
anyway back to john mayer he is just abit of a fool even with women in general, he recently talked to press about sexual exploits with jessica simpson, keep that to yourself.
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A “hood pass” sounds like something reporters get in order to cover a Klan rally.
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Thad
Read The Ku Klux Klan in Madison, 1922-1927
By Robert A. Goldberg
The Wisconsin Magazine of History, Vol. 58, No. 1 (Autumn, 1974)
and Gerder Lerner Black Women in White America.
Strom is hardly a good example of the Great White Rapist.
You are defending Strom Thurman?????!!!!
A college student from powerful white segregationist family has sex with a poor black 14 year old servant who has no legal recourse to punish the act. Black women did not have the luxury to accuse a white of rape under any circumstances. You want to call him a father because he paid for her education! WTF??
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“And Im exceptionaly happy having real relationships with black women who dont judge me for rape and slave owners that arnt even in my family history , and having a mixed race kid who isnt going to be filled with the uptight racial dogma and division of the USA.”
The more white men who say that my concerns, my history, my heritage is not important, the more I am happy to date any man but them. Is this a some sort of requirement to date white men? If so then count me out. I am not going to take history out on a potential white mate, but the idea that I accommodate myself to a version of the world is that devalues my experiences to date a white man is exceptionally sexist and paternalistic. Would you ask Native American woman to forget the Trail of Tears, an Aremenian woman to disregard the Turkish genocide, or a Bosnia Muslim to stop whining about the rape camps? Why should I give up my history to date someone like you?
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Eshowoman sez:
Thad
Read The Ku Klux Klan in Madison, 1922-1927
By Robert A. Goldberg
The Wisconsin Magazine of History, Vol. 58, No. 1 (Autumn, 1974)
Thanks for that tip, but you know, I grew up in Wisconsin and, in fact, read Goldberg’s article back in 1988 when I was in undergrad at Madison.
You are aware of the fact that the article doesn’t mention a single instance of the Klan raping black women in Wisconsin, correct? In fact, in all of Wisconsin’s history, IIRC, there’s only been one case of a black man being lynched. Maybe two (it’s been awhile since I looked at the data).
The Klan in Wisconsin spent most of its hate on the Communists, Jews and Catholics – a fact my grandmother remebered well, having been married to a Catholic and union member. This was the case throughout most of the urban and industrialized north during this period.
In Madison Wisconsin (which the article you mention focuses on), the Klan was almost exclusively concerned with the Catholic immigrants of “Little Italy”, where they allegedly murdered some 5 white catholics before they were raided and closed down by the Dane County Sherriff’s Department.
Really, Esho…
I ask for some proof that it was “a ritual of masculinity” to rape black women in Wisconsin and you hand me an article about how the Klan was killing white immigrants in Madison in the 1920s? Thanks, I guess. I mean, this is pretty good proof of the point I’ve raised here before: to wit, all whites are not necessarily considered “white” by racists.
It has nothing to do, however, with the supposedly common rapes of black women by white men which you claim occurred up until recently in the state where I was born.
A college student from powerful white segregationist family has sex with a poor black 14 year old servant who has no legal recourse to punish the act.
Yeah, Strom’s scum, for sure, and he mostdefinitely not his child’s father. What I AM saying is that it’s very doubtful that he was a rapist.
And what is it with you and this “black women raped at 14” thing? Carrie Butler and Strom Thurmond had sex when she was 16 and he was 22 – that’s hardly a surprising or shocking split, especially in the U.S. deep south in 1925.
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“The more white men who say that my concerns, my history, my heritage is not important, the more I am happy to date any man but them. Is this a some sort of requirement to date white men? If so then count me out. I am not going to take history out on a potential white mate, but the idea that I accommodate myself to a version of the world is that devalues my experiences to date a white man is exceptionally sexist and paternalistic. Would you ask Native American woman to forget the Trail of Tears, an Aremenian woman to disregard the Turkish genocide, or a Bosnia Muslim to stop whining about the rape camps? Why should I give up my history to date someone like you?”
And would any White man ask a Jewish woman to ignore the Holocaust, Japanese woman to shut up about internment and Hiroshima in order to date/marry White Gentile men? HECK NO!!!
But to ask Black women to ignore history is to devalue her worth as a Black woman. That’s not going to happen.
La Reyna
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La Reyna, who exactly has asked anything of the kind here?
I think the point being made by B.R. isn’t that one should shut up. The point is what does he, personally, have to do with white rapists during slavery days? Why is that his personal responsability?
And I would find it very odd if said Jewish woman were to say to me “I’m not dating you because you’re descended from Germans!” That has nothing to do with history at all. It would, in fact, be an anti-historic position.
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What’s silly Reyna, is to presume that a black woman should not want to date a white man because of slavery but that a Catholic Italian-descended white woman in, say, Madison, should have no problem dating a Protestant Anglo-Saxon white man today.
Why is the one issue “a matter of heritage and remembering injustice” while the other is something that can be handwaved away as bad things done by bad people that have nothing to do with us in the here and now?
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I’m actually not that offended by what he said.
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John Mayer Is Not Alone
The worst part of his deplorable interview? He’s just saying what others are thinking.
(Page 1 of 2)
I think I can honestly say I speak for a large sector of African-American women when I admit that I’ve never given singer John Mayer more than a half a second of thought over the years. Sure, I can vaguely remember thumbing through some tabloid magazines that detailed his romances with various Hollywood starlets and the drama that came with that, but really, who cares? I sure didn’t. On some level I did appreciate him performing at Michael Jackson’s memorial last year, signaling the diversity of the King of Pop’s influence. But as soon as he left the stage that day, he pretty much left my mind.
But it seems I really should have been paying more attention to Mayer and his very telling thoughts. If I had, I’d have been more familiar with his propensity for immature, salacious banter and outrageous antics. If I had, I’d have known that somewhere along the line, Mayer imagined he’d received an invitation-only entry into the African-American inner circle. You know that invitation that allows you to say anything that comes to your mind about black people without fear that Jesse Jackson or Rev. Al Sharpton will be picketing outside your door the next day.
So imagine my surprise last week when Mayer’s controversial Playboy magazine interviewhit the airwaves and newspapers. The 32-year-old singer decided to freely let loose his thoughts on blacks, the “hood” and African-American women. He also felt free enough to use the N-word like he’d been saying it to make a point all his life.
His entire interview left me seething, but his comments about African-American woman sent me through the roof. For those who aren’t familiar with Mayer’s incendiary quotes, just know he essentially said that he wasn’t interested in black women—because his male sex organ was like David Duke (a former Klan member). He causally mentioned one or two black actresses that he thought were OK, and that actress Kerry Washington was “hot,” but would probably break his heart like a “white girl.” He made a few other comments regarding Washington that were so degrading and offensive I won’t even try to paraphrase them. And for record, his references to Jessica Simpson were insulting and degrading to all women as well.
I can only assume what Mayer meant by “like a white girl” was that Kerry Washington is the only black woman that even comes close to being on a white woman’s level of desirability.
Wow! Really, John?
Imagine if you will: America’s sweetheart Beyoncé doing a major interview where she explained that her interest in men leaned more toward the Malcolm X way of thinking and that Brad Pitt or George Clooney couldn’t make the cut if they tried.
Mainstream America would be so angry and appalled with Beyoncé and her 16 Grammys that she’d have to take serious cover for years. Only a very teary-eyed Oprah interview and months in some kind of racial rehab would even begin to allow her a moment back on the national and international scene. (Though rumor has it that talk-show queen Oprah was so upset by Mayer’s interview that she’s made it clear he won’t be sitting on her couch anytime soon.)
Sadly, even though an initial public outrage had Mayer apologizing via his Twitter account and found him crying on stage during an apology, my guess is Mayer will suffer little for his comments. And the reason is very simple. He clearly said out loud what a large majority of mainstream men in power feel in private. I’m referring to those invisible men in the corner offices with the influence and power to put women in movies, on magazine covers, and television shows. The ones who decide what beauty looks like, how much it weighs, and what age it should be. The ones who, just like John Mayer, have deemed black women as just not good enough.
Sure, Beyoncé gets her due attention as does Rihanna, but one has only to look at the most recent Vanity Fair magazine cover to see what a lot of America really thinks of the combination of beauty and brown skin. There isn’t a darker hue to be found, not even in the fold. Earlier this year, pictures altered to fuse first lady Michelle Obama’s face with an ape flooded the Internet, while actor Scott Baio posted on picture of the first lady with a frown on her face and a caption asking if this was what President Obama had to wake up to every morning.
All of this has left me to wonder: Is it open season on black women? Are we in a time where openly disrespecting and insulting women of color is OK and without consequence?
Yes, there will be those who will rightly point to rap music and its demeaning lyrics and videos depicting black women—all made primarily by black men. Without doubt this has been a heated topic discussed for years by black women’s groups and leaders with little resolve. But one fact remains: most black men end up loving and marrying black women, so the words, while hurtful and offensive, don’t ultimately match their actions.
Unfortunately, Mayer’s do. He and his peers’ lack of interest in African-American women doesn’t just impact us on date night, it impacts important decisions about how we are viewed all over the world. And it determines whether those sightings are balanced and diverse.
In the end, I have no idea if Mayer is the racist some have suggested, but I do know the power of words and how painful ones aren’t easily retracted. Here’s hoping that the next time Mayer sees Kerry Washington, she rips him apart—just like a black girl.
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