The British Empire (fl. 1815-1942) was the largest empire in history, larger even than the Mongol empire. It ruled the seas, a fourth of the land and a fourth of mankind. It had more people than even China. It was the top power in the world from Napoleon to Hitler, from 1815 to 1942. The war against Hitler left it broke and worn out and it fell apart in the years that followed.
During the war its wealth and position went to America, a daughter of the empire. Many regard present American world power as the British Empire II. New York and Washington have simply taken the place of London.
Although the rise of industry started in Britain, it did not spread to its empire – most of the empire remained shockingly backward and poor. But by the 1940s industry had spread to Europe, America and Japan. So when war came in the 1940s it found that it was no longer the mighty power that it once had been. The world had changed.
In the old days, land was power. Now it was industry and business. The landed rich of Britain saw this shift in power in their own island in the 1800s and then saw it take place again in the world at large in the 1900s.
The empire was built on sea trade and sea power. For the most part it was made up of ports and countries along the sea from London to Hong Kong.
London was the centre of the empire and world trade. At the time it was the largest port and largest city in the world.
In 1940 the empire had 600 million people. A tenth lived in Britain, two-thirds in India and the remaining 140 million in other parts of the empire.
By 1940 Australia, New Zealand, Canada and South Africa were dominions. That meant they were no longer ruled by Britain, but they still worked within the empire in matters of trade and war.
Most of the countries that were once part of the empire are now part of the Commonwealth.
In the late 1600s and 1700s it got rich mainly from slaves and sugar. It lost its American colonies but then became the top power in the West after defeating Napoleon.
In the 1800s it freed the slaves and shifted its attention to India and later Africa. In the 1900s it went broke fighting two wars against Germany.
What the British Empire gave the world among other things: cricket, world trade, parliaments, football, capitalism and English as a world language.
It brought the Christian faith to much of Africa but left Africa and the Arab world weak and divided. It left Hindu India poor but in one piece and so it is much stronger today because of it.
Hitler and Gandhi, more than anyone else, brought the empire down. But it had fallen behind in many ways – in teaching science, in building arms, in spreading industry, in freeing trade – and so it was only a matter of time before it fell.
– Abagond, 2006.
See also:
Britain had the largest empire-ever.The mongol empire had the largest joined land mass ever but in size was second to britains.
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I thought the Mongol empire was a bit larger, but checking the Wikipedia I find that the British Empire was in fact larger:
36.6 million square kilometres: British empire
33 million square kilometres: Mongol empire
Thanks for the correction.
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u all need a life haha
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LOL
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The British empire did not leave India in one piece. With the divide and rule concept they created a divide between the Hindus and Muslims in India that lead to the formation of Pakistan and Bangladesh and so caused a lot of carnage in the division of the country
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Thanks for pointing that out. I corrected my post.
I know millions were killed and thousands continue to be killed, but the unity of Hindu India is no light achievement.
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yes the british outlawed slavery in Africa , but only after leading the trade in human beings for 200 years!!!! i saw a tv programme lately which suggested that the slave trade was worth 7 trillion pounds to the empire in todays money!! britiania’s passing was no bad thing.
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True, but look at how few empires before them ever gave up the slave trade.
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they still practice their Empirism… and they are parasites to the American Foreign Policy. The Council on Foreign Relations is a British entity and has more influence than any other thinktank. They are still an Empire. More specific they are a Scientific Empire who rely on propaganda and misinformation.
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The slave trade was prevalent in Africa long before the British came about, they did not enslave them just bought them from the already established slave traders from which were dealing in prisoners of war.
The Arab countries were also buying these same slaves hundreds of years before. I find it strange the black population at large blames the British and whites for their slavery when it was in fact themselves who created the industry.
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There are something like 20 million dead black people at the bottom of the Atlantic Ocean, those who died in the Middle Passage in the 1600s and 1700s. That is way more than the number of Jews that Hitler killed. The Arabs had nothing to do with that. The British and the Dutch had everything to do with it.
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The British Empire wasn’t a bad thing. China for example was what some call, a savage country. The British Empire took over China and basically policed it, promising to give back their country in a 100 years time if they were behaved.
The British Empire was a parent to many.
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That was sarcastic, right?
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british are wrong for making muslims split up with someone forgot who though
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I think that most people forget that it was Britian that gave us democracy, trade, freedom from Hitler (that includes every Nation in the British Empire) in which we held out by our selfs having bombs dropping on every city whilst America sat back and only came into it after they had been attacked at pearl harbour. Yes the we did some terrable things in the Empire but over all the world has a lot to thank the British People and all her sistering Nations for.
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Good point. But I think if Britain had fallen to Hitler, America would have entered the war immediately.
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erm dis site has like helped with my homework and everything sort of but i was wondering if any one kne of a website that had a LOT or ALL the details about the British Empire lol ??
btw some of the info is inncorrect
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If you find mistakes, let me know what they are.
For more see the Wikipedia, the article there seems decent:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Empire
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I would say that the Mongols under Genghis Khan had the largest,33 million km² was just the satble period under Kublai Khan,but at its peak,the Mongol Empire covered over 40 million km² larger than the British Empire
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its wrong.the Mongol Empire is the largest ever in humankind.
Mongol Empire,44.1 million km²(at peak),33.2 million km² (under Khublai Khan ).
British Empire,36.6 million km²
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looks like only a few english websites say that british empire was the largest empire in
the history.here some research from different languages:
==================
JAPANESE:
チンギスとその後継者たちはモンゴルから領土を大きく拡大し、西は東ヨーロッパ、アナトリア(現
在のトルコ)、シリア、南はアフガニスタン、チベット、ビルマ、東は中国、朝鮮半島まで、ユーラ
シア大陸の大部分にまたがる史上最大の帝国を創り上げた。当時の世界の全人口の約半数が支配下と
なった。厳密には面積において史上最大の帝国はイギリス帝国であるが、当時の世界はアジア・ヨーロ
ッパであったこと、領域に中国等が含まれていたこと等から史上最大の帝国であるといえる。
Genghis and his heirs have greatly expanded the territory of Mongolia from the west to
eastern Europe, Anatolia (now Turkey), Syria and south of Afghanistan, Tibet, Burma,
China, the Korean Peninsula, most of Eurasia Straddling the largest empire in the history
of his creation. At that time, the world’s population and about half of them under control.
————————-
ITALIAN:
L’Impero mongolo (Cirillico: Их Монгол Улс) è stato l’impero più vasto della
storia, coprendo, all’apice della sua estensione, più di 36 milioni di km², con una
popolazione stimata intorno ai 100 milioni di persone (in realtà l’Impero Britannico riuscì
a superarlo in estensione, ma l’Impero mongolo rimane il più grande impero terrestre).
The Mongolian Empire (Cyrillic: Их Монгол Улс) was the largest empire in
history, covering, at the height of its extension, more than 36 million km ², with a
population estimated at around 100 million people (in reality the British Empire managed to
surpass in extension, but the Mongolian Empire remains the largest land empire).
----------------
ROMANIAN:
Imperiul mongol a fost cel mai mare imperiu pe uscat, de peste 100 milioane locuitori,
creat într-un timp scurt de Ginghis Han şi urmaşii lui. Succesului militar al mongolilor,
mai ales în sec. 12 – 14, este remarcabil. Ei au controlat imense teritorii, din Coreea
până în Ungaria.
Mongol Empire was the greatest empire on land, over 100 million inhabitants, created in a
short time of Genghis Khan and his followers. Success mongolilor the military, especially
in sec. 12 to 14, is remarkable. They control huge territories, from Korea to Hungary.
———————–
CHINESE:
蒙古帝國,是一個历史上橫跨歐亞大陸的大帝國,為原大蒙古國的延伸,其也是歷史上世界最大的帝國
與國傢。
Mongolian empire, was the empire which across the Eurasian continent, as an extension of
the original Mongolia, is also the world’s largest empire in the history.
———————–
FRANCH:
El Imperio Mongol (en mongol: Монголын Эзэнт Гүрэн), fue uno de los
mayores de la historia, extendiendose en su apogeo desde la península coreana hasta el
Danubio.
The Mongol Empire (Mongolian: Монголын Эзэнт Гүрэн), was one of the
largest in history, extending at its peak since the Korean peninsula until the Danube.
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Well i think Britain did bring alot to the world and it did do bad things. But at this day nd age britain can’t be blamed because Britain was controlled by different people then nd most of them r dead nd now its controlled by different people so really its our ancestors who should be blamed. But if any country had an empire they’d do the same. Every country wants wealth and power and we got it because we aimed for our goal. We created alot of technology we shaped how the world is and alot will say thats a bad thing but Britain was driven out countries and they fought for control. I dont see why britain gets blamed for everything. We done wot every other country would have done. But next i think America will have an empire.. If they already haven’t. Why do they have so many army bases nd men in so many countries? I thinks its because if we do something they don’t like, then they can Inialate us.
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The British empire has done good things and bad things. So have other empires.
What troubles me about your comment, though, is that it sounds just like how white people in America talk about the slaves they used to have: “We do not own slaves – that was over a hundred years ago. And, besides, the Arabs had slaves too…”
If my father was a bank robber and died leaving me his fortune, is it right for me to keep that fortune and just say, “I am not a bank robber, and besides, my father was not the only bank robber”?
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alexander the great conquered the world when the leader of the british empire was in his fathers testicals. if it wasnt for the greeks u people would still be bangin rocks together. dont ever forget that wen u wanna feel important with ur fake british empire.
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the greeks came out with philosophy wen the british where coming out of the caves.
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the greeks came out with philosophy while the british where coming out with excuses.
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the greeks are responsible for mathematics,olympics,philosophy,pottery etc..
the briish are responsible for shepherds pie.
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the british empire didnt teach the world nothing instead it learnt everything from it. they only thing they invented was football and there the shittest ones at it. LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Yes, I agree: the Greeks are great. Better than the British.
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Sad Bastards !
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btw the empire did not fall apart it was part of an agreement with the usa during the war in land lease that the uk let it go
as for what was bigger the British empire was and Alexander did not conquer the world only part of it as most of it was no even known to Alexander and one reason why the british empire is better what happened after Alexander died it fell apart the British empire lasted over 100 years
thats not to say the britsh did not do some bad stuff but they did good also bring goverment to places around the world they also got rid of slavery and lets not forget in the usa african americans did not get equal rights till the 70s in the uk they had them for a hell of a lot longer
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sure brits did much horrible things, they prolly have millions of dead peoples blood on their hand, but remember..its always the rich and powerfull that gains from “Empires”, the poor “brits” had to fight and die for the rich b*stards.
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To true:
the british empire didnt teach the world nothing instead it learnt everything from it. they only thing they invented was football and there the shittest ones at it.
Uhh… dude.. did you ever hear a not so small event called the Industrial revolution?
Some British inventions are the electrical motor, light bulb, internal combustion engine, steam engine, internal combustion engine, jet engine, fax machine, vacuum cleaner, television, penicillin, the part of the internet that is useful to non-nerds the World Wide Web, and.. Viagra.
The concept of evolution, developed by a British guy named Darwin.
Capitalism an (Wealth of Nations) obscure economic philosophy from the UK’s Adam Smith.
Then’s people like Isaac Newton – calculus (he and Leibniz are both credited) founding principals of mechanical theory… advances in optics.. then there’s Shakespeare, etc..
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To trojan:
the greeks are responsible for mathematics,olympics,philosophy,pottery etc..
Pottery..? Greeks inventors..? No way:
The earliest known ceramic objects are Gravettian figurines such as those discovered at Dolni Vestonice in the modern-day Czech Republic. The Venus of Dolní Věstonice (Věstonická Venuše in Czech) is a Venus figurine, a statuette of a nude female figure dated to 29,000–25,000 BCE (Gravettian industry). The earliest known pottery vessels may be those made by the Incipient Jōmon people of Japan around 10,500 BCE. The term “Jōmon” means “cord-marked” in Japanese. This refers to the markings made on clay vessels and figures using sticks with cords wrapped around them. Pottery which dates back to 10,000 BCE have also been excavated in China.[5] It appears that pottery was independently developed in North Africa during the tenth millennium b.p.and in South America during the seventh millennium b.p.
The invention of the potter’s wheel in Mesopotamia sometime between 6,000 and 4,000 BCE (Ubaid period) revolutionized pottery production. Specialized potters were then able to meet the expanding needs of the world’s first cities. Pottery was in use in ancient India during the Mehrgarh Period II (5500 – 4800 BCE) and Merhgarh Period III (4800 – 3500 BCE), known as the ceramic Neolithic and chalcolithic. Pottery, including items known as the ed-Dur vessels, originated in regions of the Indus valley and has been found in a number of sites in the Indus valley civilization.
Philosophy and mathematics stopped with the Greeks…? Ummmn not quite.
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I agree: the Greeks did not come up with the whole pottery thing, though they were good at it. And the British were not complete slackers.
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They are somewhat correct about the Greeks though they’re the founders of democracy if they hadn’t held out against the Persians western civilization would have come to a halt. Although i cant agree about Alexander the great he was smart yes yet he was just king and ruler of the Macedonian empire, definitely not the same thing as the Greek city-states nor they’re democracy. By the way they didn’t say that mathematics and philosophy STOPPED at the Greeks they merely pointed out that they were the FOUNDERS of it which is true (the British isles were run by birttanian barbarians or what they were known as before that the Celts. That’s information you cant get off cut and past from Wikipedia -__-, they’re have always been world powers they’re always will be and and you can argue till the world ends over which ones better but seeing as how there is a 2000 or so year gap, and its obvious by the names that some of the people who vogue for Greeks are in fact Greek and the same for the British fanatics, that no ones going to change they’re minds based off of strangers on the internet, mud slinging, pointing fingers, and altogether the fact that “you cant argue with stupid”
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Stonehenge is a very old construction (older than the pyramids). We in England we’re not coming out of caves when the Greeks were boiling up philosophy and the Celts were also fine craftsmen; Being the makers of the most valuable jewellery in the Roman empire. If you’re factious towards the intellect of our supposedly “cave-dwelling” past then elaborate on how “Stonehenge” was built and pit your wits against theirs.
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To John:
By the way they didn’t say that mathematics and philosophy STOPPED at the Greeks they merely pointed out that they were the FOUNDERS of it which is true..
Neither is true…. the Egyptians, Sumerians, and Assyrians all had forms of mathematics and philosophy some of which were adopted and expanded upon by the Greeks. The ancient Greeks such as Herodotus acknowledged this.
the British isles were run by birttanian barbarians or what they were known as before that the Celts. That’s information you cant get off cut and past from Wikipedia
Actually there’s plenty you can get from Wikipedia about Britain and Celts, Britannia is the Roman name for the province we now call England (the name England is derived from the later Anglo-Saxon-Jute invasion… Angle-Land) :
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Britannia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Celts
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Britain_(name)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Britons_(historic)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_Britain
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To Ashton:
Stonehenge is a very old construction (older than the pyramids).
It was roughly coincident with the step pyramids such as:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pyramid_of_Djoser
I will tip my hat to the pyramid builders for engineering but I would agree that Stonehenge was not a simple task.
Unfortunately every time I read about Stonehenge… I think of:
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The British not only had 36 million km^2 but they also controlled the Sea that’s an additional 2/3rds of the world…no one seriously faced their sea power apart from Spanish armada…but they were wiped out by British Fleet and storms helped. It was until the late 1800’s when Bismarck was in power the Prussians (Germans) started to challenge the British fleet…as well as that many people in Britain were becoming unfit to fight wars. Hence the reason such care is being taken care of the citizens in Britain today because of the struggles that were endured in the 20th century wars. Nevertheless if it wasn’t for the British…History would have been boring.
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The British did not introduce Christianity to Africa – that is a common misconception. It existed in Ethiopia hundreds of years before Europeans even set foot on the continent. The magnificent rock churches in Lalibela (built in c. 1100s as a “New Jerusalem”) testify to this.
Africa’s connection to Christianity stems from Makeda, the Ethipian Queen of Sheba who was said to have travelled to meet King Solomon. Ethiopian Jews (Beta Israel) who are acknowledged as such by the modern-day state of Israel, claim their Jewish descent from King Soloman and the Queen of Sheeba.
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all i have to say on this matter is that the british empire changed and shaped the world as it is today without the english half of you f**king idiots probaly wouldnt even be alive, english blood is spread all over the world the most spoke language across the world is english the stupid americans are as good as english an im ashamed to say so, we invented so many things that people all over the world use every day and take for granted, it was down to the british that world war 1 and world war 2 ended, we produced great men like Winston Churchill, Shakespeare, Robin Hood etc. Before you all start slagging off the British, remember what they did for you and the rest of the world!
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…english blood is spread all over the world…
So let’s go spill some more of it, hey whot? 😛
it was down to the british that world war 1 and world war 2 ended…
And began, let’s not forget.
we produced great men like Winston Churchill, Shakespeare, Robin Hood etc.
Robin Hood? ROBIN HOOD?!!! 😀 😀 😀 😀
Ahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!
O man, here I thought you were serious, but now I see it’s just troll copypasta! Thanks for the laugh!
Yes, and let’s not forget such great English men as King Arthur, Toad of Toad Hall, Winnie the Pooh and the Mad Hatter!
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Thad:
The Mad Hatter is from Wonderland. I am not sure if that is part of England.
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With regard to:
“Africa’s connection to Christianity stems from Makeda, the Ethipian Queen of Sheba who was said to have travelled to meet King Solomon”
Just to say that strictly speaking African connection with Christanity starts at two places.
1. The kind of euro-centred perspective will tell you Christainity entered Africa in the 4th century AD with Saint Frumentius of Ethiopia.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frumentius
2. Notwithstanding that Egypt became a Christian country as early as AD 41
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_Egypt
It is Judaism that has a continuous history in Ethiopia, dating back from the (fabled) meeting of Queen of Sheba with King Solomon in 90? BC.
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A lot of low IQ comments on here. By the way what language are we all talking on this thread 🙂
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“A lot of low IQ comments on here. By the way what language are we all talking on this thread”
I believe it’s Japanese, Italian, Romanian, Chinese, French, and English.
…so far.
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Abagond wrote:But it left Hindu India in one piece and so it is much stronger today because of it.
I say: Not entirely true. True, Christianity couldn’t get a lot of followers here but they implemented their ‘divide and rule’ policy in the form of fostering hatred between Hindus and Muslims(hey, ours is not just a Hindu country), the two major religious groups and India was divided into India and Pakistan, and later East Pakistan became independent and is now called Bangladesh. India and Pakistan have a long history of enmity over Kashmir.
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Before Britain controlled India, India was divided into many small kingdoms! so actually Britain left it in a bigger two pieces!
And whoever said britain started the two world knows nothing!
WWI started when the Archduke Franz Ferdinand was murdered by a serbian, and after a chain reaction of alliances the war came about!
WWII started because Hitler invaded Poland! Britain promised to side with Poland if he did so, then Hitler Invaded Holland, Belgium, then France!
If America sat back watching France and the other countries get invaded then I doubt they would have done anything for Britain! Apparantly french fries are now called freedom fries in America because the French didn’t help out in the war… Well thats pretty out of order! Seeing as they were in the war from the beginning! Leave our european brothers alone!
But to be honest, I have learned a lot from these aggressive conversations!
I thought the mongol empire was 33 million square kilometers not 44 but like the other guy said, the Mongols did not control the seas! Also whats amazing is Britain is such a small country but still ruled an amazingly huge Empire!
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britain invented the radar!
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As you all argue on the Greeks verse the British being the better Empire, remember you are arguing in English not Greek. LMAO
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While Britain and the West benefitted from the slave trade it should be remember that it was the British Parliament that outlawed the slave trade. The British set aside 15% of its GDP for a period of 40 years to implement the abolition of the Slave Trade, this process was started by members of Parliament who put humanity before greed.
Also if Hitler had defeated Britain the thought that America would have entered the war is laughable. In 1940 the USA was in the grip of isolationism. FDR had to propose lend lease to get help to Britain, which we have only paid off in 2008. Further proof is Joe kennedy (JFK’s father) was pro nazi and hated Britain and he was the USA’s ambassador to Britain. Finally when Japan attacked Pearl Harbour, the USA declared war on Japan not Germany, it was only when Germany declared war on USA did the USA declare war on Germany. Also when USA entered the war in Dec1941 Britain had been standing alone since May1940.
Therefore before you make comments on the past of a country you should actually read about it and understand that the present is not the past. Also in the past, people did not have the same beliefs that we now have in this more enlighted times.
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The greatest British invention? Fish and Chips, with tons of gravy on the chips! Yowza! To h*ll with anything else!
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Interesting thread, some intelligent comments and perhaps a lot more idiotic ones. I have always had an interest in the history of the world and I’d just like to make clear that I am both ashamed and proud of Britain and it’s past, as should everyone be of their country. Anyone that is as blindly nationalistic as some people in this conversation, perhaps should understand such blinkered views are probably not going to help improve this world for everyone. No country is the best, we are all humans. Every nation has contributed to (and hindered) our evolution into truly intelligent beings, can we please not go backwards!
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some prehistoric neanderthals quarreled 10,000 years ago with stones and sticks in hand in some unknown language to show who is best.
4000 years ago Egyptians did that in Egyptian language.
Greek followed with there chariots so were the Roman gladiators. Then European tribes continued with super politician English on top; the trend transferred to US now a days. From Stones in 10,000 years back through pappirus, paper, tapes to internet some pet historians, poets wrote epics and continuing… After 500 years later from now it will keep continuing in inter galactic system with telepathic or some other form of language.
I wonder if there was ever humanity… or there will ever be anything like that. After all the humanity and etc things all are under this process of evaluation of barbarism. Some other process or some other evaluation could justify… what we are and where we are heading. Beep beep…..
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The map of the british empire that’s in this web is wrong, because it shows South Africa as a colonie in the 1920’s, and that doesn’t match because South Africa is independent since 1910.
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Where Ottomans Empire?
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Ben türküm Osmanlı İmparatorluğu nerde çekemedinizmi büyük bir imparatorluğum kölesi olmayı.
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Britain’s fallen far — just look at how much of a rump their military will be after the Conversative-Lib Dem coalition hobbles it in the name of ‘austerity’.
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To Herneith
The greatest British invention? Fish and Chips, with tons of gravy on the chips! Yowza! To h*ll with anything else!
Ummm British food… no wonder they invaded so many countries… as for inventions there is the graphical based internet:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tim_Berners-Lee
Which I personally find more useful than Fish & Chips.
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Ummm British food… no wonder they invaded so many countries… as for inventions there is the graphical based internet:
Yes, but can he cook fish and chips with tons of gravy on the fries?
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Anyone who is trying to proclaim pride in having an empire is just admitting that there forefathers were criminals, murder & theft and ethnic clensing is what usually happens in empire building, the american government are war criminals along with tony blair, and any other sons of bitches stealing iraq’s wealth, they already moving into afghanistan, uzbekistan and that region, and IRAN is there target after that, and when they no longer friendly with the super rich saudi’s, who had more to do with 9/11 than iraq, they will be after them too.
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stop slagging of the british yes we may have done some bad things but we’ve also done many great things world war 1 and 2 the british saved the entire world and the spanish armada and napoleon we beat both and hitler. and instead of insulting celts think what they did. if u actually did anything british celtic history u would know we also had a deep set of beliefs and culture. and americans never do anything apart from screw up britain. example. concord, americans screwed it up just cause they didnt have the tecnology.
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We are all humans, we all come from the same source and we’ll all go to the same place. We all have feelings, emotions, thoughts, and we all feel pain. We are all on the same planet asking the same questions in need of the same necessities.
That is a lot more that we all have in common than what part of the world you are from.
If you choose to seperate yourselfs from the rest of humanity by saying your empire is best, then you are a victim of this divide and conquer method.
Your ignorance as a individual is the reason that the world is messed up, not your countrys or empires, take responsibility you are not a sheep. wake up!.
Im not a hippy lol I am just logical and I think for myself.
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I don’t think there ever was an empire in the history that was “good”. They’re just projections of man’s greed to conquer and amass more wealth for the highest echelons of their societies.
People whose ancestors were part of those empires tend to glorify their achievements. That something good came out of them is just an excuse for further conquests and merely a side effect. “Progress”, “civilization”.
Empires are not trying to benefit mankind, they try to benefit themselves.
Interesting that the defenders of British Empire seem to be the most uneducated people on this blog. It would be nice if you were able to grasp at least the very fundamentals of your queen’s english to somehow justify the great achievements of your long gone realm.
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And the Brits did definitely NOT save the entire world in WW1 or WW2 and definitely not single-handedly. They were too weak for that (excluding Royal Navy). It took the effort of all the Allied forces. And do NOT forget the Red Army.
Hitler’s mistake was to spread his forces too thin, on several fronts. Germans were short of resources (oil, metals, everything). Germany would’ve collapsed anyway, it would just taken a lot longer. Albert Speer was able to prolong the war with his undeniably brilliant organizing talent.
Battle of Britain was important, but it was operation Barbarossa that broke the back of Die Dritte Reich.
Please read some history before commenting.
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Did you know that after slavery was abolished in the British Empire the paid reparations to the slave owners, but not the slaves? The nerve! I mean way to spit on peoples faces(my Jamaican ancestors included).
I don’t blame the current British generation, but I think most of us can agree that the past was pretty effed up.
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Check this out:
http://www.imperialflags.blogspot.com
All the British flags of the empire (pretty much)
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The trouble with Britain is that it covers up it’s bad things and makes everyone believe they were a force of good through out the world which is not true! They never want to knowledge the bad things they did and they always make their excuses that it was legal at the time like Tony Blair said about Slavery. As a person of Afro-Caribbean descent I look at the terrible things they did in Jamaica and to the people of Kenya to see that they have got a brutal and bloody history but they are very good at portraying themselves as the ‘Good guy‘.
The book ‘Imperial Reckoning’ Caroline Elkins explores the brutality of English in Kenya during the Colonial period – I would highly recommend this book!
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***The trouble with Britain is that it covers up it’s bad things and makes everyone believe they were a force of good through out the world ***
I would say the opposite is true. They focus on the bad things by the British & downplay african and overlook the services and infrastructure that was developed (schools, universities, hospitals and sanitation projects).
Accordingly, they’ve provided billions in aid but little hands on governance for these countries – which would help the people on the ground.
***The book ‘Imperial Reckoning’ Caroline Elkins explores the brutality of English in Kenya during the Colonial period ***
Blacker, writing in African Affairs, sets out in detail that Elkins’ estimates of casualties were grossly over estimated.
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@Schwartz
I don’t think any of that is true. American history doesn’t pay much attention to British or any other European empires. Most high school students probably couldn’t tell you anything about the British besides the fact that we fought a war with them for independence.
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Please update the picture : Anachronous map of the British Empire, showing all the lands that have been under British control at one time or another. British never ruled Nepal and also never had any control. If you really have a knowledge of British empire you should know that British never defeated Nepal and they named Nepali as the brave army of the time.
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@ Schwartz
Your response to my post it not suprising. A typical White English response by stating that they ‘gave’ the Africans some hospitals, schools etc but not noting that Britain took billions of natural resources from Africa that a few schools, train track etc could never make -up for!! In regards to Elkins, there will always be a denial by British by stating that ‘not true’ or ‘highly exaggerated’ because they never want to confront their brutality of Africans.
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Oh dear. How ever could anyone try to analyse the pros and cons of an enormous subject like the British Empire in a thread like this? It’s too full a subject for a library, let alone ill thought out remarks by some semi-literate and occasionally shockingly inarticulate people on the internet.
However . Let’s try to examine just two points of Imperial history mentioned here: slavery and British India.
Slavery was undoubtedly a stain on Britain’s Imperial past, BUT, having abolished the slave trade the British, through the Royal Navy, then became the most enthusiastic anti slave traders. Many were the British sailors killed in the fifty years that followed the “Act for the Abolition of the Slave Trade” policing the seas off Africa. Who killed them? The traders. Who were they? Portuguese, Spanish, French, Americans, various Arabs, and of course, the African tribal leaders who went inland to collect people to sell to the slavers when their ships arrived.
Prior to 1807 the British were also in that list, of course; my point is that having abolished this wretched trade the British then became the most enthusiastic in policing the abolition. (It has to be said in fairness that the French, albeit relucantly, also complied).
Should I, a British person, apologise for the slave trade? Absolutely not! It is not in my gift, or anyone else’s for that matter, to apologise for the behaviour of my forefathers. Can I say I regret what was done at that time? Of course! however, let’s put it in context: the British Empire was not the only entity involved in the slave trade; plenty of other nations have that stain on their past too. The British at least took the first step in abolishing it.
British India.
The age of Empire was already waning when Indian Nationalism was on the rise. It can, in fact, be argued that the British failure to grant the Irish Home Rule in the 1880’s was the genesis of the end of the Empire. The bloody put-down of the Easter Uprising in 1916 did more for the cause of Irish nationalism than anything before it, culminating in the 1921 treaty granting Ireland (minus the six counties of Ulster) semi-independence. That led to full independence in 1946.
The Indians therefore only had to look to Ireland to see the way forward in terms of throwing off the colonial yoke, and volient clashes (naturally enough) ensued.
The partition of India is a complex subject, but again, it was not British policy to do so, at least initially. I think it can easily be argued that Jinnah, Nehru and Ghandi (in particular) were duplicitious individuals who bear joint responsibility for the partiton of India. The British would have been happy to hand India back in one piece, actually as has been pointed out, a bigger piece than before its colonial period.
Was the British pull-out from India well managed? Of course not! Did it lead to needless bloodshed? Almost certainly; but put that down to incompetence rather than policy.
The British Imperial legacy is long, and contains much good as well as bad, Londongirl. It is easy to selectively quote history to paint an unflattering picture of anything; the history of the British Empire is one of those things that can only be taken as a whole. Like it or not, the world is where it is today in large part because of the British Empire. There are a lot worse potential outcomes than that.
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It’s embarrassing that Canada still has the British Monarchy as its head of state.
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“Oh dear. How ever could anyone try to analyse the pros and cons of an enormous subject like the British Empire in a thread like this? It’s too full a subject for a library, let alone ill thought out remarks by some semi-literate and occasionally shockingly inarticulate people on the internet.”
Here he is obviously trying to establish himself as superior in knowledge and authority to the other posters. But if one truly has something worthwhile to say, this kind preamble is unnecessary, because one’s very words will evidence the superiority of his reasoning.
“Slavery was undoubtedly a stain on Britain’s Imperial past, BUT, having abolished the slave trade the British, through the Royal Navy, then became the most enthusiastic anti slave traders. Many were the British sailors killed in… etc etc..”
This is not information, but justification. Notice the capitalized “BUT.” Slavery was a stain—that is one fact. Later the British outlawed slavery and fought against it—that is another. But the second fact does not somehow ameliorate the first. It was both moral and right to abstain from, and combat, the slave trade from the very beginning – centuries beforehand.
“Should I, a British person, apologise for the slave trade? Absolutely not! It is not in my gift, or anyone else’s for that matter, to apologise for the behaviour of my forefathers. Can I say I regret what was done at that time? Of course! however, let’s put it in context: the British Empire was not the only entity involved in the slave trade; plenty of other nations have that stain on their past too.”
Or in other words:
I’m not the only one who beats my wife! Plenty of other men have done it too, and some rather prominent… Alexander the Great, I believe, and Napoleon, Kublai Khan, and Guy Ritchie—all known for their practice of domestic pugilism, you see. It is therefore important that you judge my brutality with theirs in mind!
————————————
No one was saying that Britain was alone in the slave trade. No one implied that modern Brits must personally apologize for slavery. No one said that the British empire never did anything worthwhile.
With what ghosts was he arguing?
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King,
The point is that history has to be judged not by the standards of today but by the standards of the time. It is easy to see now that slavery was abominable, it clearly either was not so easy then to see it as such, or that it was not considered important. This, surely, is evolution – of thought and attitude.
“No one implied that modern Brits must personally apologize for slavery. No one said that the British empire never did anything worthwhile.
With what ghosts was he arguing?”
This is not an academic point neither is it a ghost. Read the final report of the United Nations World Conference Against Racism, Racial Discrimination, Xenophobia and Racial Intolerance, which was held at Durban in 2001. There is a modern trend among “thinkers”, which holds that Britain, in particular, must apologise for the sins of its Imperial past. Demos (a UK based leftist/liberal ‘think tank’) suggested in 2002 that Queen Elizabeth should embark on “a world tour to apologize for the past sins of the Empire as a first step to making the Commonwealth more effective and relevant”.
And what about this:
“There have been repeated calls from blacks in the UK and elsewhere for compensation and an apology from the British state.”
These do not appear to be ghosts to me. The above is one of many quotes easily obtainable from a simple Google search on ‘calls for apologies for slavery’. Plenty of people have called for it, I disavow it as impractical and unnecessary. No one is able to speak for those 10 generations past, they did what they did. We can judge it now, by our standards, but history always has to be set in context. We need to lead our lives today by modern attitudes, not continually look over our shoulders at the past.
The fact is that the British were among the first slave traders (slavery is and always has been endemic, and continues today) and among the first and keenest to abolish it, and then police its abolition. One does not annul the other, but it is better than nothing at all, and better than other nations were doing at the time.
To try to equate that with wife beating, even metaphorically, is stretching the point just a bit and devaluing the debate, don’t you think?
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PS no, it’s not embarassing for Canada at all. It aggravates the Quebecois beyond all endurance that the Queen’s head is still on your money. That’s reason enough to keep her!
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“The point is that history has to be judged not by the standards of today but by the standards of the time. It is easy to see now that slavery was abominable, it clearly either was not so easy then to see it as such, or that it was not considered important. This, surely, is evolution – of thought and attitude.”
Slavery was clearly abominable in every age, no matter the race of the slaves or the slave holders. There were always clear voices of descent, but they were simply ignored because riches were pursued with greater desire than was decency. Even Anselm was ignored until nearly the end of his life.
“This is not an academic point neither is it a ghost. Read the final report of the United Nations World Conference Against Racism, Racial Discrimination, Xenophobia and Racial Intolerance, which was held at Durban in 2001. There is a modern trend among “thinkers”, which holds that Britain, in particular, must apologise”
Yes, but this is Abagond, not the United Nations World Conference Against Racism, Racial Discrimination, Xenophobia and Racial Intolerance. Why not take that particular point up with them?
“One does not annul the other, but it is better than nothing at all, and better than other nations were doing at the time.”
This post was not entitled, THE MISDEEDS OF THE BRITISH EMPIRE – it was not an attack post but an informative one. Now, in the discussion here on an anti-racist website, naturally, some of her racist misdeeds have been brought to light in the comments, but that would seem natural in such a setting. And why do you assume that we are unaware of the historical context in which these events were shaped? I will remind you that there are sharp minds, and tongues to match, on both sides of the Atlantic, sir.
“To try to equate that with wife beating, even metaphorically, is stretching the point just a bit and devaluing the debate, don’t you think?”
Why, not at all.
It is often only by taking arguments to their extremity that they can be seen for what they truly are. Think of of it as shouting when a whisper would be lost in the noise of the room.
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King,
“There were always clear voices of descent,” – I think you mean dissent, but allowing for that undoubted typographical error, who were they? Granted there were a few Quakers and evangelicals who wrote on the subject, but a mass anti-slavery movement did not truly gather pace until the mid to late 1700’s.
“Yes, but this is Abagond, not the United Nations World Conference Against Racism, Racial Discrimination, Xenophobia and Racial Intolerance. Why not take that particular point up with them?”
So censorship is to be practiced here? Nice, the Nazis were very good at that kind of thing. Abagond started the thread, which I agree was not at all an attack posting, but various comments left behind interested me and motivated me to reply. Many of those comments were very negative, and I see no reason not to defend the British Empire’s record. So censor away if you must, let others judge for themselves.
“It is often only by taking arguments to their extremity that they can be seen for what they truly are. Think of of it as shouting when a whisper would be lost in the noise of the room.”
Yes, that is a rhetorical technique practiced a lot on here I have noticed. You may justify it in those terms; I find it a rather immature, student style way of getting a point across. Taking things to extremes is rarely a way of advancing debate, it just clouds the central issue with meaningless stagnant backwaters.
Nothing in life is ever truly black and white, even on an anti rascism forum (observed he, drily).
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Im black and very grateful for the British influence in my country’s (Zimbabwe) education system.
Other than than that, I thank God for Queen Elizabeth I and her son King James I in their great contribution towards true Christianity’s progress in the late 16th and early 17th centuries. I will ever adore them. Where would the world be without their great stance against the papacy?
England may not be the same now without them, but they indeed left behind an immortal legacy. Its sad though the current monarchy is contributing big timeto the reversal of these gains.
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“So censorship is to be practiced here? Nice, the Nazis were very good at that kind of thing. Abagond started the thread, which I agree was not at all an attack posting, but various comments left behind interested me and motivated me to reply. Many of those comments were very negative, and I see no reason not to defend the British Empire’s record. So censor away if you must, let others judge for themselves.”
Sorry I missed your comment Oldschool gent.
I’m afraid that you don’t understand what censorship is. Allow me to educate you on this point. Censorship would be if the government came to this site and redacted your comments. You might also make that claim if Abagond deleted your comment, because it did not comport with his comment policy. And *perhaps* you might even make that claim if I somehow hacked into this site and deleted your comment.
But as you can see, your comment is still here, and all I have done is make a counter argument against it. You are quite incorrect in your idea of what censorship actually is. Not to worry though, it is a mistake often made by those unfamiliar with the term, so no big deal.
“Nice, the Nazis were very good at that kind of thing.”
(sigh) Please see Godwin’s law.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin's_law
“Yes, that is a rhetorical technique practiced a lot on here I have noticed. You may justify it in those terms; I find it a rather immature, student style way of getting a point across.”
What, is this censorship then!? I’m just kidding… NOW you know better.
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what the hell people….. you all have no life argueing about the past….. seriously though you all should start thinking about your lives and not the past… and yes i agree that without the wars and the Empire and all that Canada and everywhere else would not be the same… but like i said.. THAT WAS THE F#$KING PAST!!!!!! so get over yourselves..
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It’s funny how history suddenly becomes useless when it puts you in a bad light. We can celebrate 100 holidays that commemorate great events of the past. We can maintain great museums. We can dedicate whole sections of our libraries to history. But we must never discuss history that makes the White man come off less than generous and noble.
IN other words, history is for White people to remember. Colored people cant be trusted with history – just get over it.
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Im black and very grateful for the British influence in my country’s (Zimbabwe) education system.
Hahahahahahaha!!!!!
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By hook or by crook,
a lot of hands have been shook.
a lot of heads have rolled
and many stories remain untold.
nice thread!
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King, your posts up until know have been focused almost entirely on semantics, or de-constructing the arguments of Oldschool Gent, not based on the arguments themselves, but the way in which they were argued. You claim his arguments are irrelevant, but, if that is true, how irrelevant are your comments about the irrelevancy of his comments? If you would like to be constructive, how about commenting on the subject matter, in the style of a reasoned debate, rather than in the way of someone who has no point to argue, and instead hides behind his rhetoric to appear the more intelligent speaker?
In fact, Oldschool Gent has been by far the most well reasoned person on this forum so far, so how about focusing some of that malcontent on some of the less literate posters, rather than the one who’s intelligence intimidates you? I’ll stop there, in order not to make myself a hypocrite.
As regards the debate, I would like to put forward my view. First I will say that I am British, and so am subject to any natural bias. However it may enlighten any readers from other nations here to know that Britain is far from swelling with patriotic pride, as we have a natural tendency towards self-deprecation, and our rather liberal cultural attitude has led us to institutionalise condemnation of our past.
However, if we look at the Empire, we must, as has been said, look at it in context. While the sins of any nation of the past cannot be excused just by saying ‘it was ok back then’, consider how you may be judged in the future, before condemning those past. In the future you may be vilified for eating meat, or driving a petrol-fuelled car etc, but does that make you a bad person?
At the time, slavery was global and had been going on since the dawn of history, and probably before that. It was not seen as moral by all, but in a time of do or die, when weaker nations were not simply forgotten, but crushed, Britain, like all other countries, took every advantage it could get. By the standards of the time, it was effectively morally neutral. However, it was the first nation to abolish global slavery, and this was no small thing – it had to sacrifice much of it income and risk the anger of its wealthiest subjects! Besides that are also myriad benefits that came from the Empire – an empire which was known for being relatively benign and beneficial to its people, even actively seeking to help them at its own cost, compared to those of the past.
What I am not trying to say is that we should excuse the actions of our forebears, or that it was right to create the British Empire. What I am saying is that we should take some perspective, see that the Empire was not the worst thing to happen to the world, stop focusing our hatred for the ways of the past largely on Britain, and celebrate our past as all other nations celebrate theirs, despite their own transgressions. For we have a lot to celebrate, and have made up for our own sins much more than many others.
I realise I have come a little late to this debate, so sue me.
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PS King, that last comment was rather uncalled for. You attacked Jackel’s view based completely on your own assumptions of his background, dismissing it as racist, which in fact made you the racist. That was beneath your intelligence, as I perceive it. Or I may also have made an ignorant assumption and you are in fact as dull-witted as the worst here, albeit with better grammar.
Putting what is in the past behind us is not an unintelligent idea, he was not saying we should forget the past, what I believe he was saying (and correct me if I’m wrong here) is that we should not let it define us.
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The argument over which was larger the British or the Mongolian empires fails to address that the Royal Navy ruled the world’s seas. No nation could challenge the British from 1815 until 1913.. (The Germans tried in 1916 and again with U boats in 1939-45 and were defeated.
Post 1945, America IS the British Empire continued. Look at all the bases throughout the world, almost an exact copy of the British Empire circa 1913. And they have total sea domination with 12 carrier fleets.
Pax Britannica – Pax America.
One and the same.
Control the means of trade.
Economic, Diplomatic & Militaristic.
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I know the British did bad things in those days, as did all empires. But that’s how it was in those days. If you could, you did! ANYONE who was powerful enough took over the weaker Of course that would not be acceptable today, but that’s how it was then. I now live in a country who was under the Spanish for 500 yrs. I’v lost count of the number of times I’v heard people say, “How I wish we had been under the British”
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Indeed John. Even Nelson Mandela says in his autobiography, how fortunate South Africa was to be colonized by the British rather than one of the other European powers. Also he states quite correctly complaining about the British colonialization of S.A. is like the British complaining about the Roman conquest of Britain. Farcical. Barbarianism v Civilization.
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It’s really sad to see that people can be proud of the British Empire albeit all the blood it has shed all over the world. No wonder that God’s Judgement shall fall upon present british people even though the physical bodies they are using wasn’t there at the time. Dont forget something: “No matter what you brought/think you brought to the JC. As for those who enjoy so much being british because it makes them feel superior, watch the movie Doomsday by Neil Marshall to see what awaits them… Your satanic politicians and leader have never had your best interests at heart; they required your support only to make you accomplices to their murders. And even though you have known all along that they were but liars, they were also smoothsayers; and you like the way they made you feel, that is: “superior beings”. Unfortunately superior you are not. You have served your purpose and they about to unleash havoc on the world, including most of you… Tic tac, tic tac, tic tac.
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It baffles me that people can be proud of things that involve: Slave trade, many bloody wars, exploitation, subjugation, the origination of white man’s encumbrance and their so-called need to civilise and teach purity, good religion, custom and habit to colonies deemed “uncivilised”. As a result, some of the colonies original religions or beliefs were bypassed, defiled and ignored. Although I’m a Christian and a BLACK Briton, but it saddens me.
Yes, it had it’s few positive impact, it also broke itself defying Hitler but it was nothing compared to the negative impact. It’s an argument i grew up with, it was always a contentious debate topic in my home.
The British were against the indigenous populations because of their way of life; they discriminated and deemed them as merely subhuman, and they used abusive behaviour towards members of another race which is racism; according to the exact meaning. And I despise and condemn racisim!
They used Australia as a supplier of cannon fodder for their bloody World Wars.
“In World War I Australians performed an outstanding service to the British Empire by acting as bullet-collectors in the Somme and Gallipoli. The “idea” for the latter was conceived by the then British Monster of Navy, Winston Churchill. Churchill’s reward for his brilliant strategy to reduce the population of Australia was to be eventually made leader of the Tory Party and subsequently elected as Prime Monster……………………..”
Not to mention the profits of slavery and the slave trade.
I could go on and on and on………………
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Why the British Empire is overrated compared to Rome and others.
1) Land mass: It is easy to boast of its size when you look at a map like the one above but consider how much of the land is uninhabited or inhabitable. Most of Canada, Australia, and Sudan are tundra and desert. It is easy to claim land when there are no or few inhabitants to contest it. Silly example is the US claim to the moon which gives the US by far the largest empire ever in terms of land mass.
2) The strength of the conquered areas. The British empire followed the Spanish model not the Roman one. Unlike the Romans who slugged it out with its nearest and most powerful neighbors the British like the Spanish scoured the globe for the most vulnerable areas with wealth for the taking. It was much easier for the British to control all of Australia, Canada, and India than one small area in continental Europe which was never part of their conquests.
3) It was not a contiguous land mass- unlike the Romans, Mongols, Byzantium, Alexander, Arabs, etc. Compare the map of the British Empire to the map of Napoleon’s short lived First French Empire http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:First_French_Empire_1812.svg For the British Empire to be considered with the Mongols, Romans, its map would include an an area of conquest solidified by the subjugation of its most powerful competitors. The British ruled the waves but not the land on the Continent. Rome ruled both the Mediterranean was a Roman lake. Solidifying a land mass on the Continent is grueling and the sure sign of greatness; even Napoleon ultimately failed.
4) It never defeated or eliminated the balance of power mounted against it by its most powerful neighbors. Again the British Empire could slightly out compete but never dominate its rivals. Rome defeated Greece and Carthage simultaneously and broke the balance of power that would contest its expansion. The British had to deal with the French, Spanish, and the Dutch who continually limited much of its claims in the Americas and elsewhere. This contributed to major defeats and setbacks. Anytime the British engaged its neighbors on the Continent it was greatly weakened. The Germans brought the ultimate ruin because the British could never established themselves on the Continent.
5) Its lack of longevity. Nothing more needed to say.
6) The lack of an indigenous regime. This is the real blind spot most British have about themselves and their history. Something quite odd about the British claims to empire is the fact that they themselves, especially the English have been controlled by foreign elites. The last Anglo-Saxon King ruled only some of what is now England for nearly 1000 years ago. From the Normans to the Tudors, roughly 600 years, the English were ruled by a French elite that rarely intermarried with Anglo-Saxons. The Stuarts were also a French Breton elite but at least they more often intermarried with Scots. The Anglo-Saxon English had been entirely disenfranchised from the ruling elite. Of course the greater British gains were made under German dynasties. Today, waving the flag at the queen is also a subconscious confirmation of the very disenfranchisement of the English themselves and this also casts a bit of doubt on who was really behind the success of the empire. .
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When did the U.S. “claim” the moon?
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Where did the British get the idea that they had the largest empire, or an empire at all? They had a lot of barren lands in Canada, Australia and Africa. The Mongols, in the other hand, THEY CONTROLLED ASIA, to include the so called middle East which is Western Asia, almost a billion strong. The British were a joke and lied to themselves by having such an ignorant thought.
BTW, English is a barbaric language. I know, because I know how stupid I feel writing English with Latin letters. Letters and sounds DON’T match.
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Your argument has no merit. It is factually wrong and also somewhat hilarious in its naivity.
The Mongols controlled 100 million people at the height of their empire. Much of central Asia and lower siberia is barren stepp too. The British controlled 458 million people at it’s height and was considerably bigger than the Mongol empire in land area.
It also controlled the oceans as well. The oceans make up 70% of the world’s area.
There is no argument. The British Empire was the largest and greatest empire the world has ever seen.
It dominated the world and changed the world utterly in it’s own image.
Which is why the British Capitalstic Industrial Revolution is the model for all modern economies. Most countries follow the political, social and legal frameworks pioneered by the British Empire. They also follow the financial and trade frameworks too.
And most hilarious of all, guess what language you come on here (the Intenet – yet another British invention) and try and argue your case in.
English.
The world communicates in ENGLISH.
The world remembers the Mongol hordes as a footnote in history. That contributed virtually NOTHING.
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Sir, ignorance is daring. No matter what I say, you won’t understand. I will suggest you read “Genghis Khan; The making of the modern world” by Jack Weatherford. As for “the world communicates in ENGLISH” Sorry sir, you have a too narrow of a view to even grasp the idea that will help you understand that only anglo speakers see it that way.
Yo no soy angloparlante, soy bilingüe. Por lo tanto, he visto y escuchado mucha gente de todo el mundo,
语言,在汉语世界中的大多数人。
Listen, I already said that the Mongols had the biggest POPULATED empire. The british controlled barren lands. Mongols; China, Middle East and Northern India. THE MOST POPULATED LANDS IN THE WORLD.
One day, usted entenderá lo ridículo de su argumento.
jrs
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When Genghis Khan’s son scouted England, they realized that Europe was a barbaric land not worth the effort. They went to conquer Northern India, a place with much more culture and civilization. oh, and wealth.
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Want to compare the English Empire to the Spanish Empire? The English took what the Spanish left as unwearthy, New England and Canada. The Spanish took the tropics, South America and the Caribbean. Where the gold was. The English committed genocide with the unprepared North American natives, the Spanish fought a strong empire, the Aztecs.
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You are wrong. The British Empire’s Population was 458 Million. The Mongol Empire’s population was 100 Million. Look it up.
The Spanish Empire? Don’t make me laugh. They controlled parts of Central and South America, which were largely unpopulated and certainly didn’t have any rivals with serious technology. When they did fight the British they lost and the British Navy ended up cutting them off from their dominions in any case.
The fact is you live in an ANGLO dominated world. Suck it up sunshine.
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Sir, I repeat, ignorance is daring. Although I am not fond of the Spanish, I have to admit, they ruled for 300 years, 1500-1800. Nobody used the seas highway, that is why the British settled in Northern North America, very inhospitable place during that period. The British controlled only the centers of power in India, the only great civilization they conquered. The rest was barren land dominated by tribes. You say that the Mongols only had 100 million people, gee man, they controlled India, China, the Middle East. there were close to a billion people there at that time. Today, there are close to 3billion, As for technology, the 4 most important advances in technology that still influence our lives where brought to Europe by the Mongols from China and the Middle East; the Press (paper money), Gunpowder, Compass and advanced medicine from Persia. Again, read the book I recommended. You are not to blame, European Education is detrimental to human knowledge.
Why? THE DARK AGES for example
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How about The British Empir’es greatest invention? Fish and Chips with gravy on the fries. I have to go eat lunch now!
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Lausy!!! Fish were first fished by modern humans in the Nubian Empire. Fried tubers were first done in Western Africa, potatoes are from the South American continent. AND BROUGHT TO EUROPE BY THE SPANISH.
Sorry sir, The english empire is responsable for plagiarism. BTW, even a jewel in the queen’s crown is from Hyderabad India. A country you didn’t conquer, it was part of the Ottoman Empire as they surrender to the allies, not to britain.
I will leave you now with your fries. No matter what I say, history is there and I am just one person against the conventional wisdom. The same conventional wisdom that thought the Earth flat for centuries.
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The Mongols never conquered Northern India, where is this BS coming from?
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It is useless, I charge good money for teaching, man. But read baby read, anglo’s arrogance is only bettered by its ignorance. http://www.artsmia.org/art-of-asia/history/images/maps/mongol-empire-large.gif
There are many maps showing the Mongol Empire. The one drawn by the britts is smaller, guess why? but the one drawn using Persian writings is the best as it comes from real witnesses of the hegemony of the steppes’ riders. I bet you didn’t know that the word Moghul comes from Mongol. It was a son or granson of Genghis Khan, a muslim, who conquered northern India.
Now you owe me big money.
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The Moghuls were not direct ancestors of Genghis Khan, they were very distantly related or it was a pretender claim. Also the Moghuls never ruled India for long, the Marathras pushed them back and defeat them and their rule was actually pretty short. The Mongols actually tried invading India several times, before the so called Moghuls, and they completely and utterly failed.
I’m not a big fan of the Brits, but the Mongols were also a shit empire who had the element of surprise to their advantage. Whenever someone knew about Mongol war tactics and how they fought, their intentions, methodology, thinking, strategy, attitudes, needs, they got stomped and beaten back. The best example of this is the battle of Ayn Jalut and the subsequent four times they got beaten back by the Mamluks, and then how they got thrown out of their various lands when their primary leaders died and the hordes disintegrated.
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Xera, unfortunately Inabon Yunes doesn’t like facts like these.
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Bravo Xera, I love it when somebody argues with facts when defending their point. Finally somebody brings knowledge to the table, not just opinions like little bill here.
I will argue my point in the next post. Let me check my references.
iy
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1. Where do I get much of my information about the Mongols?
2. Did I or did I not say that Mongols ruled NORTHERN India (now Pakistan)? Yes they did as in can be read on my reference. Other sources are online like http://www.newworldencyclopedia.org/entry/Mongol_Empire
3. You have to admit it, the Brits lied a lot about India. Actually, you can’t belief one piece of argument from the Brits about India because they lied so much it was ridiculous.
In other countries, not Anglo based, history is much different. Cultures like the Chinese, Japanese (who avoided invasion) India and the Mesopotamia (Turks, Persians, Arabs) acknowledge Mongol influence in the forming of the modern world.
The Brits will never accept that. But my post was originally directed towards clarifying that the Brits were never the largest empire and I belief I proved it.
Funny thing, the brits conquered barren lands and primitive tribes except India.
As for the Moghuls, I have lot of reasons to belief in the book I made reference to. It is a good reading, unconventional and well documented.
Try it, I say it because I always believed what they told me in college. This book throws away all conventionalities.
iy
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Oh my God. I commented in this post before I read the comments other people made.
Gee, there are some dumb donkeys here. I read somebody that said that the Brits “policed” China and they promised to release them if they behaved? For God’s sake, that is some dumb $#&t. How stupid can you be to confuse Hong Kong with China, its like saying that Scarborough is England. The Brits were living in caves when Confucius was minister of crime in the Lu State in China, 505bc. Poor Anglos, there are people that will die believing that crap, like people in the Dark Ages died believing that they died of a curse from God.
Can’t expect intelligence coming from the heirs of oscurantism.
Pretty sure I won’t post here anymore. Unless Xera brings more facts. She is good.
BTW, Xera; I accept that you came to conclusions because of the evidence you brought is the one you believed. I came to a different conclusions using a different set of evidences that I belief in. Read mine, I will read what you have. Maybe you show me something I overlooked or you can find evidence YOU may have overlooked or ignored.
iy
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I’ll take All I said about Xera back, she brought forward no references, no evidences, no documentation and nothing to substantiate her opinions. I did
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I meant to say Mister Yunes doesn’t even cite or provide credible accounts or sources of the Arabs, Mesopotamians (not even the correct name for them how can you even get that wrong? They were Sumerians, Assyrians, and they were mixed with Arabs) praising the Mongols, or even the Japanese praising or saying anything good about the Mongols. Funny I never had anything good to say about Mister Yunes either, I’m thinking he is one of those East-Asian HBDer nordicisque nationalist types. Only those types of people are always in the gammut about Mongol supremacy.
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@ Xera
I just deleted a comment of yours because you use a racial slur.
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Oh shoot Mister Yunes, I just wrote a giant comment before my last one completely countering your last post on mine. But unfortunately miss abagond here deleted it because I happened to have used a “racial slur”. Could you for the love of me provide references as to when Hyderabad India was under the Ottoman Empire? The Mongols didn’t really rule “Northern India” which includes Pakistan, Punjab, Bangladesh because they and the Moghuls were pushed back or their rule was short lived. But all that jazz was covered in the post that unfortunately was deleted.
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I am sorry Xera, after reading half of one of your posts I have to stop. You provide no evidence, yet, “demand” evidence to disproof you. Lady, you don’t deserve that much attention.
You used profane language and then used racial language and were deleted.
You end up to be a disappointment.
In other words, your provided no evidence and I am the one that is wrong?
Listen “sanguijuela con pretenciones de vampiro”, you ended up being just one of the bunch. Me, on the other hand, everyone that reads my posts here will see that I back all my opinions with credible references while you did nothing of the sort.
How dared you ask for evidence when you brought non forward.
Translate my definition of yourself, you’ll find it remarkable suitable for your life.
BTW, I only brought one reference, the rest were websites. You brought NOTHING, NOT A DARN THING.
iy
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Again, and as follow up to your last comment, I DON’T HAVE TO PROVIDE MORE EVIDENCE when you have non to back you up. Now, take a good look at your left middle finger, in between the finger nail and the skin. Yeap, right there, that black spot. That is your knowledge. Now, look up to the sealing of your room. You have to accumulate knowledge of that scum up to the sealing to even reach the steps to the start of mine.
iy poor kid
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I hope that all the people that posted here get this link. Ignorance is no longer a handicap when you’ve seen the truth.
http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/confucius/
Follow that link and learn that when Europeans were living in caves and the Roman Republic wasn’t even born. Even Alexander hasn’t been born yet, Confucius was “Minister of Justice” (Translation of equivalency) in the Lu State in China. England is nothing but the land paid to the Saxon barbarians by the Britons. No pedigree, no history, no relevance, not even a written language and borrowed OUR Latin letters (pun intended). They just got lucky that they lived in an inhospitable Island.
iy
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Removed slurs…
I’m sorry your sources are invalid except for perhaps the book, and then the logic behind your other source is completely faulty. Northern India by definition would include Pakistan, Punjab, Bangladesh (the Ganges river delta is located there), the northern most regions of this sub-continent of which Genghis Khan failed to conquer or subdue and this was before the Mughals. He didn’t really “rule” Pakistan, only parts of it and he had to send troops there several times as the Hazara show because it was too difficult to control. He DID get beaten several times when he tried to go further into Punjab and then past that. There are written records of his horses being curb stomped all over by Elephants and the difficulty they had with the temperatures and the bows and arrows not working.
I have never heard of the Japanese, Arabs, or Turks praise the Mongols EVER, that claim is complete and utter nonsense, the Iraqi’s and Arabs hated the Mongols and said they were a bunch of savages. It was the Mongols who destroyed the irrigation channels of Iraq and the great library of Baghdad (so much precious knowledge of the Ancient world) destroyed by a bunch of primitive Mongols. I HAVE NEVER heard any praise of these people from any Arab, Iraqi or anyone else. The burning and destruction of the Library of Baghdad was a HUGE net loss for the human race and civilization in general. The so called “modern world” was already in development and was being developed with or without the Mongol. the Mongols did more damage and the global world did not need the Mongols as a vehicle of global trade, that part is unsubstantiated.
The Moghuls are not direct descendants of the Mongols and claims to it are faulty. The connection between them is rather fishy and unproved, plus they were defeated several times also and their rule was short. They were defeated by the so called Marathras.
You also didn’t counter my point about how the Mongols had the element of surprise and were defeated so badly by the Mamluks so many times. This paved the road to the renaissance, and the development of Western Civilization. Mongolia today is a gigantic shithole and dump and most of the countries that the Mongols invaded have turned out to be pretty backward nowadays. Mongolia today is completely undeveloped as well like a former communist republic !!!
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Removed slurs…v2!
I’m sorry your sources are invalid except for perhaps the book, and then the logic behind your other source is completely faulty. Northern India by definition would include Pakistan, Punjab, Bangladesh (the Ganges river delta is located there), the northern most regions of this sub-continent of which Genghis Khan failed to conquer or subdue and this was before the Mughals. He didn’t really “rule” Pakistan, only parts of it and he had to send troops there several times as the Hazara show because it was too difficult to control. He DID get beaten several times when he tried to go further into Punjab and then past that. There are written records of his horses being curb stomped all over by Elephants and the difficulty they had with the temperatures and the bows and arrows not working. I have never heard of the Japanese, Arabs, or Turks praise the Mongols EVER, that claim is complete and utter nonsense, the Iraqi’s and Arabs hated the Mongols and said they were a bunch of savages. It was the Mongols who destroyed the irrigation channels of Iraq and the great library of Baghdad (so much precious knowledge of the Ancient world) destroyed by a bunch of primitive Mongols. I HAVE NEVER heard any praise of these people from any Arab, Iraqi or anyone else. The burning and destruction of the Library of Baghdad was a HUGE net loss for the human race and civilization in general. The so called “modern world” was already in development and was being developed with or without the Mongol. the Mongols did more damage and the global world did not need the Mongols as a vehicle of global trade, that part is unsubstantiated. The Moghuls are not direct descendants of the Mongols and claims to it are faulty. The connection between them is rather fishy and unproved, plus they were defeated several times also and their rule was short. They were defeated by the so called Marathras. You also didn’t counter my point about how the Mongols had the element of surprise and were defeated so badly by the Mamluks so many times. This paved the road to the renaissance, and the development of Western Civilization. Most of the countries that the Mongols invaded have turned out to be pretty backward nowadays. Mongolia today is completely undeveloped as well like a former communist republic !!!
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The websites that you provided were incorrect, and had incorrect info, you didn’t provide a reference for when the Ottoman Empire ruled India (which never happened). Are you an “East Asian”?
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Oh goody, my comment was not deleted, Mister Yunes if you are an “East Asian”, I would like to know when on earth the Latin alphabet was invented by East Asians, you are forgetting the Ancient Egyptians and Sumerians sir, and the Indus valley civilization.
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I promised that I wasn’t going to respond to your posts Xera, but I have no choice, when somebody just throws easy pitches, I can’t resist to go for the grand slam.
The websites I “provided” are not incorrect. You may not agree with them, but that is something else. We have to agree, my websites are better that those that you “provided” (lol)
The book, compiles the translations of what Persians wrote using Persian letters with Mongol words about the conquests of Genghis Khan is my best evidence, but not the only evidence.
Never said that the Chinese, Indians or Western Asians loved Genghis Khan, they just told his story. And a story it is.
Read the book I refer to, you may learn something.
About these letters…A B C D E…. They are Phoenicians, but altered by the Greeks and then the Etruscan. The Romans spread THESE letters to the rest of Europe. Spanish people inherited them because everybody else in Europe were too barbaric. That is why I say they are OUR letters. In English there are Runes.
http://anglosaxonliterature.wikispaces.com/Anglo-Saxon+Alphabet
Lastly, I don’t have to tell you what I am or where I live because you can’t judge the message for the messenger. As you can’t judge a book for its cover.
But, I am a white Caucasian of Spanish descent, rode the East coast of the US in a Harley Davidson “Bagger” Ultraclassic, my blue eyes would make you sweat in the wrong places.
Now I am in the Caribbean, writing an epic novel of historical fiction, short stories and historical researches, I am a marine biologist that can’t dive anymore, former US Army infantry Sergeant.
See, I can be lying my butt off so, Why ask?
Well, all that is true and if you weren’t so ignorant, I would’ve given my facebook name.
Inabón and Yunes are two rivers in the island of Puerto Rico, BTW, google Vieques, that’s were I am writing, now EAT YOUR HEART OUT
iy
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I have read the book, but you still did not read what I said about the library of Baghdad and how the Mongols regressed humanity by their burning of it. A lot of the former states that were under Mongol rule are now not so nice places and it is a product of that Mongol past. The Mongols never really invented anything new, they just stole and took whatever they could and used other people to do their means, sure that’s a great skill to have. One example is how they had Arab engineers do their sieges and Persian weaponry because the Mongols themselves were too stupid to do that on their own and create it. Another example is how stupidly they used river boats when trying to invade Japan not so smart!!!
With, or without the Mongols, the world would have already “progressed” and the Arabs and Middle Easterners were the first to carry out a global trade network. The Mongols were just savages that paved the way for Islamic extremism.
Ok, but those people didn’t need East Asians to invent it, I’m not a big fan of Northern European supremacy idiots, one needs to simply to look at the superior culture of these Northern Euro’s in America, Australia, England which involves sex, primitive sports, acting like monkeys and assholes. To think that’s superior to Roman or Middle Eastern history and these people are is a joke.
Oh good good, you are not an “East Asian”, that’s a good thing. I really really don’t like East Asians, specially the Koreans, Japanese, and Northeast Chinese, on the surface they may appear to be something but one needs to go where they gather to learn about how they really behave and see the world. The ones that try to come the U.S and think they are some sort of superior master race and think whites see them as fellow Whites and are somehow descended from them, these people are the biggest scumbags and pricks in the entire world, besides Indians, I can’t find any other people like this. When all else fails and they don’t find anything to cling onto to continue their ways, they use the “Genghis Khan” argument. They see Genghis Khan and all his exaggerations as proof that they are some of superior race and that White women just bow to their pleasures. Oh by the way they really want your women and will try every way to befriend you to take your women. I really get tired and irritated dealing with scumbag East Asians and the amount of B.S they put on themselves. Believe me they are far from being your friends, and I don’t see why you are defending them.
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By the way the Spanish Empire was a joke and was far insignificant then Britain although they both suck and couldn’t get past the Ottomans/Muslims, at least the Spanish controlled Northern Europe (Dutch), and defeated other European powers, however the Spanish were defeated by a bunch of Arabs, North Africans, and BLACKS. Remember these same people defeated the Mongols at the battle of Ayn Jalut!! Embarassing right?
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Xera darling, you have still to show your references. You want other people to belief in what you say by faith? lol, you are not that intelligent.
As for the Spanish Empire, one of my ancestors, lady, THEY RULED THE AMERICAN SEA HIGHWAY FOR 300 YEARS.
While the Brits had to settle in barren lands, the Spanish were conquering other empires like the Aztecs. The Brits attacked the Sioux, lol.
Now, bring some real information forward, like I’ve done. About you reading my reference, YOU ARE LYING YOUR B@%% OFF AND YOU KNOW IT.
Who are you trying to fool? yourself?
iy
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Logic does not require empirical verification and neither does most of my claims which I believe half of is from that book you cited.
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jake? who the heck are you?
Logic is relative and yes, in a public debate, EMPIRICAL VERIFICATION IS A MOST.
Only I had read that book here and, if you are right, why Xera requested evidence then?
So, you want to use logic, then lets try it
If, the Brittish Empire was the largest empire ever
Then, they built fortresses, buildings, aqueducts, infrastructure in general around the world that still stands.
Romans, Chinese, Mongols, Spanish, Greeks, Nubians, Egiptians, Harappans, and more…. All left their mark in the fields of politics, architecture, arts, science, chemistry, etc…
The Brits left nothing but obstacles and restrains in well developed civilizations.
Let me make it clear, the Brits are not bad people, just overrated
iy
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This post had turned to the worst. I stopped having fun with people that won’t provide evidence and want others to belief by faith.
I got excited when I thought that Xera was going to bring real evidence that we could analyze and debate. Then I noticed that she hasn’t brought one piece of evidence, not a single one. Then I found out that she is a xenophobe and more like a troll than anything else.
BTW, Xera, there is nothing wrong with East Asian people as there are good and bad people there. But, same goes with the US and UK. There are great people there but there are people that make me belief in abortion as a solution to many problems.
I’ll try not to reply unless somebody brings real evidence like I did.
Your choice to stay dumb or to come out of the Caverns that Plato described.
iy
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It’s actually funny because the Mongols never really left anything, no aquaducts, monuments, fortresses, infrastructure, buildings etc. But the Romans, Egyptians, and everyone else did, I was hoping Mr.Yunes here would say something about the burning of the library of baghdad, but every one of his arguments seem bad and more involved in making himself look good and more intelligent then the other person. He also mentioned two websites and nothing to counter any of the of the points I made.
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Xera, just when I think you can’t get any duller, you always surprise the heck out of me. Got to give it to you, you are amazingly dull.
About the Mongols, again, you have to read the book and all your questions will be answered.
If I look good is because your dullness makes me look good.
Having said that, you made a great point, I reverse your quote to you “YOU MENTIONED NOTHING TO COUNTER ANY OF THE POINTS I MADE.”
I couldn’t have said it better.
In your surreal world, do you realize that your word is worst nothing if you don’t provide evidence? so far, the only one that proofed any points here is me, Yo, wo3, namum, etc…
I hope that one day you wake up and realize that your knowledge is comparable to a 3rd grader IN THE USA. lol
jrs
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I’ve been trying to make sense to the belief that the British Empire was the most populous, some claim up to 450 million people.
I’ve looked and looked at the maps and I see Canada, South Africa, Australia, England and India. Of those lands, the only one that had lots of people was India and England only controlled some parts, not all of India.
In the other hand, the one I belief to be the largest empire ever, the Mongols, controlled China, Northern India, East Europe, the Middle East and South Siberia. The only nearly empty space was Siberia, everything else was overpopulated.
I think that the British Empire is overrated by much. Only Anglos belief that.
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The British Empire is overrated and takes credit from others. They give “plagio” a new dimension
http://features.cultural-china.com/cuju/
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Couple Of Things . Britain Does Not Rule Canada . The Governor General is a figure-head For The Queen Outta respect for the commonwealth ‘which is just a trade thing”. WW2 ……. Britain Did Not Win …….. All The Allies Won That War. And The Internet Did Not Start In Britain … It Started In The Usa . Britain Did Not Educate China ……. It Only Used Hong Kong For Its Own Greedy Benefit ….I Love Canada …. … I Love The USa …. And I Love Canada ….. Hell This Whole World Is Great ……. Its Just A Few Million Retards Who Are Braggers About Their Nation With Their BS Facts And A Few Million
Evangelists And Muslims Who Cannot Follow Their Own Beliefs Properly Who Are Screwing Things Up For The Remaining 6 Billion + Rest Of Us
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OOPs …. Ièm So Mad I Even Said That Wrong … I Said I Love Canada Twice ….Sorry For That
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The English Empire, if it ever existed (they ruled a few cities in some big territories, but not the entire lands) re-wrote history to its convenience and included empty lands such as most of Australia and Northern Canada, while the Mongols ruled over the most advanced countries in the known word then, China, Northern India and the Middle East. At the time, England was so primitive that the Khan skipped it and invaded Muslim nations which offered science, trade and goods.
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Maybe the most ridiculous comment yet, “The Khan skipped it?” He was stopped in Far Eastern Europe on the border with present day Russia. He never had the opportunity of invading England even if he wanted to. Your grasp of history and education is frankly risible.
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I understand is kind of hard to accept. By your name I have to guess that you are an Anglo. Guess what, Genghis Khan conquered Northern and Central China, Persia, Northern India and most of southern Russia and Eastern Europe. At the time, 1200ac, Europe didn’t have the wealth and riches that those regions had. Actually, Europe had nothing to attract the Khan.
For me it was easier to understand, I am nor Anglo or Asian. I guess, between us, I am the only unbiased on all this. I then belief this book
This book is the only one that I’ve read that makes any sense. The English were nothing, well, they are still good in making belief that they meant something in today’s world. Only Anglos think that English is the universal language. To me, Mandarin Rules
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I didn’t get to read most of these replies. But Britan had it’s good and bad times. And I saw some of the post, it would seem the british killed many more people than the nazi’s. They killed 50+ negro’s in slavery. Do the math 6<50+ million. Not a good thing.
I think that Mother Russia should take them on! Who agrees comrades?
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I don’t agree when people compare two bad qualities and come to the conclusion that “because A was worst that B, then B is better than A.” Two wrongs don’t make one right. We have to come to our HUMAN senses and admit that we are not from England, Africa or China, we are from planet Earth and all HUMAN. Getting to know our REAL history, will help us overcome “negatives” against humanity in the future.
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Britain, USA, Spain, Romans, Mongols, etc. All “fixed” history to fit. For example, English people attribute the invention of “football” to England. Well, the Chinese ware playing Cuju (Tsu Chu) thousands of years ago. Do a quick search and read the rules and how it was played. The Amerindians played similar games, so did the Arabs. Just one example, easy to understand.
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Inabon Yunes, you are right people all over the world were playing a kind of football the English didn’t invent it, The rules to modern day football were introduced by the Irish. Though England ruled one quarter of the world they did no good for the people they ruled, they raped these countries took what they wanted and left a mess, some English people still think we rule the world and are a complete embarrisment.
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The British Empire done many great things!!! When was the last great empire of the world before the British Empire!? To my knowledge it was the Romans, after that silly little Empires were dotted all around the world and they never really achived very much, maybe in there own nations but the never really changed the world, the British Empire did. And btw America is a nation not an Empire! Wait and see how ruthless the next great empire of the world will be and then let people say how ruthless the British where!!!
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@ Orochi Is that last comment on your list supposed to be French? it is not.
@ Allybam: Good point–> the human capacity for bullying the weak has not been exhausted yet, and nobody does it better than big empires pretending to civilise the world (the comment about the Chines being savages before the British empire is very wrong: Whatever they were before the brits, they did not change under the Brits who did not control the country anyway.
Also: History is usually written by the winners, at least during and shortly after the events. As we distance ourselves from our “glorious past”, all of us nations in the world learn to question it and see our failings. The only innocent nations/human groups have probably disappeared from the face of the earth.
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@Bulanik. Of course you should question my use of Brit if you do not think it is justified! I will try to explain this usage:
In my experience of living in the UK (and not being a Brit myself) I have noticed that a lot of British people living here call themselves Brits in phrases such as “us Brits”, or: The “Today the Brits struggled to-blablabla (I do not understand cricket) against the Aussies today at Lords”. So, on that basis, I call Brits people who live here in the UK and hold a British passport. Now, Just like I would be fine with an Aussie or a Kiwi not wanting to be called Aussie or Kiwi, I would understand someone asking not to be called a Brit. All such monikers can have negative undertones, even if not intended by the person using the moniker. (I have just asked my partner: he calls himself a Brit and sees nothing negative or “trying to be with it” in it, but that’s his opinion, it would be interesting to ask more of the people I know here).
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” It left Hindu India poor but in one piece and so it is much stronger today because of it” Lol…The only part of the sentence that I can agree with is “It left India poor”
First and foremost, India’s history does not belong to a single race or clan. It’s been shaped by the Indus civilization, the Dravidians, the Aryans, the Mughals, the Brits. So to say “Hindu India” is not germane. Each of the above civilizations have brought their culture and religion along with them and India has absorbed all of them and moreover when the Brits colonized India, India was ruled by the Mughals – Muslims. The Mughals had already unified to the country to a a great extent extending from Balochistan in the west to Bengal in the east and from Kashmir in the north to the Cauvery basin in the south during Akbar’s period. Akbar had already established Hindu and Muslim unity to significant levels in the 1500’s post his ascension. The same was evident during the Mauryan Empire (in between 322 to 185 BC) and Alexander before that. The Brits actually take more credit than any other to split India into factions.
It went to an extent wherein when Sir Radcliffe was asked to demarcate regions of India and Pakistan in a month’s time, he drew a border which not only divided villages, towns into regions belonging to India and Pakistan but also individual houses, where some rooms were to belong to India whereas the rest were to belong to Pakistan. That was the haste in which the British wanted to leave India as they were that deep in wartime debt.
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@ Agne Kirupha C S
The sentence neither says that all of India is Hindu nor that it was the British who made it one. It says what it says: that the British LEFT Hindu India in one piece. This is as compared to, say parts of the Arab world, West Indies or Africa which were once under British rule but now are divided into dozens of countries.
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British people attacked India because they (almost all European) were mad about Indian product( indigo,silk, precious metals,spices etc). Indian people never attacked on other country because they had everything which Mankind need( food, water, clothes, shelter, precious metals etc). The great Hindu Indian philosophy believes in peace and nonviolence ( example: Lord Buddha. Lord Mahavira, all lord of Jainism, Gandhi etc).
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[…] 3. https://abagond.wordpress.com/2006/06/10/british-empire/ […]
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Watch milton friedman talking about colonization and slavery and then talk
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4xeebU8VhmY)
btw I saw interview with obama’s brother who still lives in kenya and he said he’s very glad british were there because if not for them he couldn’t even write today. It’s usually communists who are strongly against imperialism but then they created one of the biggest empire themselves (USSR)…
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Just for information: there was nothing wrong with the Persians. They did not have such a bad political system, and it would not have been the end of democracy if they had won. Let’s not forget History was written by the victors…the Greeks who had no interest in being fair to te Persians. Xenophon who was one of the Grek mercenaries who fouhgt for one of the Persian kings had quite a different take on the Persians.
as for the Brits teaching their colonies to read and write. Lol. The civilising influence of colonisation is one of the great myths.
@V8: you are quite right, Communists or not: europeans were hell bent on expansion abroad. Why? It was a way of ensuring economic expansion without having to solve their own socio-economic problems (poor & iliterate underclass etc)
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Also: To all who admire the Greeks and their contributions so much they do not waste a minute to consider the others: all other civilisations of Antiquity had a considerable body of knowledge, literature and philosophy. Think of the egyptians, the Nubians, the people of Madagascar (ok, much later), the Mesopotamians, the early civilisations of the Indus valley, and before they were destroyed: the Cretans. So much so that The Greeks themselves were aware of the discoveries and achievements of others and never hesitated to make them their own. Plus, archeology, no matter where it pitches its tent, has revealed that many scientific/technical achievements took place several times, in different places (the invention of zero: India, and the Mayas). It could be argued that it is racist to assert that only such and such a nation/civilisation was worthy of our admiration, but I am afraid it is just ignorant!
but the past is gone, what about today…There is a lot to admire for the Scandinavian way of doing things at the moment, of for the way Bostwana deals with its development…but they go about their business quietly, efficiently, and we do not pay any attention to them, while we allow ourselves to be blinded and deafened by the cultures and politicians who1-speak English 2-make a lot of noise, like Cameron posturing in Europe, but shaking in his boots in the UK because of Nigel Farage and Ukip.
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@ Lord of Mirkwood
That is worth mentioning, but not what they did to Blacks.
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^ French Catholics committed genocide and practised slavery in the Americas too.
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@ Lord of Mirkwood
I read your whole list. You left out the slave trade and the enslavement of Africans. I think that is a tad more important than looting the Louvre.
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Don’t cry because it’s over. Smile because it happened.
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