I have been married for twelve years and neither one of us has as much sex as we want. It has been over a month.
She thinks that I do not want sex, that I have become an old man before my time. Or that because she is fat I no longer want her. Or that I have found someone new.
It is nothing like that at all. Not even close.
Only now am I beginning to understand why so many men commit adultery, have affairs or even pay to have sex. I used to look down on them as immoral. I still think it is immoral, as the wrong thing to do, but now I understand what drives them to it. It is not, by and large, because they cannot stick to one woman: it is because their wives are not giving them what the need. Yes.
Think about it: Why would a man pay to have sex when he can have it for free at home? Or why would he chance destroying his family and comfortable home life for the sake of an affair? What must we conclude from this?
When my father was my age, he had a stash of Playboy magazines under the seat of his car. I wondered why – he was a married man, after all. Now I see why.
For some men, yes, it really is because they cannot keep themselves to just one woman. But for most – for those who have been faithful for years – it has more to do with their wives and what she is not giving them.
When I got married I thought I could have sex any time I wanted and as much as I wanted. Maybe it was something like that in the beginning, but it is nothing like that now. If only. I now think about women and sex as much as I did when I was young and single. Once again it is becoming one of the chief things I think about. I spend maybe a third of my time thinking about sex, a third about work and a third about everything else.
I walk home from work wanting her. But when I get home what happens? She is nagging me about this or that, or upset about this or that. She says that in most cases what is really eating her is the lack of sex. This is how she gets a man into her bed? By nagging? Yet so many wives do it!! Women have an incredible power over men, but so few even see that or know how to use it. Maybe it is just as well.
I want to be faithful to my wife and have been so far, but it is not as easy as I thought it would be when I got married.
See also:
THIS IS AS TRUE AS BREATHING. MOST MEN UNDERSTAND THAT WOMEN HAVE GOOD DAYS AND BAD DAYS. BUT IN SOME CASES, WOMEN DON’T KNOW HOW TO LET GO OF THE THINGS THAT MADE THEIR DAY BAD. THEN THAT MAKES THEIR NIGHTS BAD.YOU HAVE TO MAKE-UP YOUR MIND THAT WHEN YOU WALK INTO YOUR HOME THAT WORK DOES’NT INTERFEAR WITH HOME LIFE. BECAUSE IF YOU DON’T YOUR MARRAGE WILL BECOME ANOTHER PILE OF ASHES ON FIRE OF DEVORCE.
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True!
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I see that this is a really old one so talk about posting late…(hope you get this one). I don’t know if this is still the case with you and your marriage since it was a year ago but you said
“For some men, yes, it really is because they cannot keep themselves to just one woman. But for most – for those who have been faithful up until middle age – it has more to do with their wives and what she is not giving them.”
What is it that their wives is not giving them? Sex. Wow, really. It means THAT much to you. What do you want or what do men want women to give them (I know you are not an authority but you are a man)
It seems like the responsibility for the disatisfaction of the relationship is place squarely on the women’s shoulders. We both know that isn’t the truth. Many women are not turned on by their husbands because he really isn’t putting forth much effort in and outside of the bedroom. It is hard and tricky terrain!
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WordPress lists the comments for me from newest to oldest. So does this RSS feed:
https://abagond.wordpress.com/comments/feed/
though that one only goes back so far.
So no matter what post you comment on I will see it.
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Yes, I was talking about sex. It does mean that much. I can only speak for myself, but if I have not had sex in a while it starts to cloud my mind, it is all I can think about, it makes it hard to keep my mind on my work. It is why you see so many posts about women on this blog. You could almost chart the happy and rough patches in my marriage by this blog. The only thing that can uncloud my mind is sex or fasting and prayer.
More on that here:
It is tricky terrain. Before I got married I had no idea!
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I read a book once where the author asked men what they wanted in their marriage and one responded: “What do men want? If I’m not horny, make me a sandwich.”
Women are very complicated so we wrongly assume men are, as well. It’s taken me 5 years to figure it out, but men really are that binary. LOL!
A friend of mine told me recently that she rarely (maybe once a month) had sex with her husband because “she wasn’t in the mood”. I told her to have sex anyway. At the worst, she’d be bored for 15 minutes. After all, he listens to her blab on and on about her boring day every evening and manages to keep his eyes from glazing over.
The truth is, even if I’m not really “in the mood” when we start, I’m usually enjoying myself at the end.
Ooops, TMI?
It’s become very obvious to him that most of his friends and acquaintances are NOT getting as much sex from their wives so my worth has been ratcheted up even more; he knows how good he has it.
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I agree. Most American women seem to hugely underestimate how important sex and good cooking is to their marriage. I know that sounds sexist, but that does not make it not true. Women seem to see marriage from the relationship angle, the Dr Phil stuff. But sometimes it is way simpler than that. The other big thing they get wrong is nagging. Men hate being nagged. It is like fingernails on a chalkboard.
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Sexist but true. 🙂
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so how should a woman/wife/girlfriend get you to bed?
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I can’t cook. Oh. 😦
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Well… good to know I’ll never have this problem. 🙂
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Lucky! Any cooking tips?
I think my main problems with cooking are: I don’t like to eat (therefore to prepare food- sometimes it does look like a waste of time), and plus, my man likes to cook.
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Mira, I was referring to the original post. 😉
But, yes, I can cook too and I love to cook for my SO. Seeing him scarf down something I’ve cooked makes me happy; he’s a picky eater… I probably sound like the “Happy Housewife” saying that, but it’s true.
Can you cook basics — pasta, rice, chicken, a few side dishes? If you can do that, the rest should come easy.
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Oh, I know hot to cook basics… I’m just not particularly good at it. I tend to forget about the most basic things, such as to add salt or I simply don’t have enough patience and it results in a mess. Which is bad, I know. But it just happened that way that my husband is much better than me in cooking (he grew up without a mother so he learned as a teenager), so he’s cooking. There are some things I can cook better than him, so I cook these.
But in response to the original post, I think the nagging is a very bad thing. You can’t totally prevent it, but you should (both!) try to use it as rarely as possible. It doesn’t just kill sexual buzz, but also any other “buzz” you might have. Nagging is worse than fighting- at least in an open argument, you fight, then make up. Arguments are healthy. Nagging isn’t.
As for “dirty magazines”, I don’t have anything against those, but none of us buy them.
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Do you think your husband resents in any way that you don’t cook?
As far as nagging goes, I agree with you. Nagging is terrible and I try to stay away from naggers as much as possible. I’m not a big nagger… when I’m in a bad mood, I just try to busy myself to take my mind off of it. But when he’s around, I can’t stay in a bad mood.
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He’s a person who likes to do things his own way. So, he does believe he’s better when it comes to cooking (which is true) and he likes his meals better than mine. He does, sometimes, complain about being bored with cooking. That is ok. I fully understand him. It’s not like I’m forcing him to cook if he doesn’t want to.
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You could try to practice cooking more on your own, maybe? Practice makes perfect.
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I know, you’re right. I think am just lazy. But in my defence, I know how to cook better than many girl/women my age, and some of them are married to men who don’t know how to cook and expect a woman to do it for them.
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Abagond,
It is evident that you have invested in this blog …now invest in your wife….if her complaint is you are married to your computer…she is right…you have so may many topics within this blog, and some I can tell you have down extensive research for them, which require more time away from “home’….if you want to capture the essence of love that you all once had…..come home early….turn off your technology…and stick your tongue down her throat…..but that’s if you genuinely want that ole thang back…..
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No offense, but you kinda struck me as the type who could possibly have thoughts of cheating. You write so much about women’s bodies, thick women, ect.. It just seems like you’re longing for someone.
And I don’t agree that women have a lot of power over men. My former boss told me that and I didn’t believe him either.
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yeah abagond, if you need to take a break from your blog and spend time with your wifey you should do that.
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we’re all human. no one is perfect, maybe some people need to work on accepting that no one is perfect.
I know plenty of men who had great wives who cooked and stood by them and still cheated on their wives. It’s not always the woman’s fault.Sometimes men just wanna do what they wanna do and its an internal issue within them. I’m speaking generally,but its like ever since they invented viagra men have been acting crazy about sex…
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lol, jk about the viagra more like since the beginning of time
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Back to the post:
I don’t really think women are the only ones who are nagging- plenty of men do that. So it’s not a female thing.
Also, I don’t think “Playboy” belong in this discussion- reading and, um… using magazines and video clips is not cheating.
And yes, I am aware you wrote this in 2006, so I’m trying not to make it personal in any way.
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I am really sorry to hear that you have reached this Martin Luther King position of:
~ The true measure of a man is not how he behaves in moments of comfort and convenience but how he stands at times of controversy and challenges. ~
Martin Luther King Jr
Hope things have moved on from when this post started.
Personally I think the problem you describe is based upon human ‘error’ of imposing monogamy when nature is not thus.
All the best…
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Wow, I’m really late too, but “Most…women…underestimate how important…good cooking is to their marriage. I know that sounds sexist”
HA! Yeah. That’s because it is. Fuck that shit.
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“It is not, by and large, because they cannot stick to one woman: it is because their wives are not giving them what the need. Yes.”
….*sighs*
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Think about it: Why would a man pay to have sex when he can have it for free at home?
Many men pay not to have sex, but to make sure that the woman goes away the next day.
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I worry I may have this problem with my husband. I often have this problem with my partners. I want it more than them.. and it does lead to problems. I sympathize, Abagond. This happens to women too.
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The biggest problem between men and women is this: women think that men know what they think. And men think that women think the same way they do. They do not.
Men are hunters. It was like that for about 20 000 years human history. Ok, it is morning around 15 735 BC. Men wake up, gather around the fire place, bullshit for a while and go down the business. Hey, did you see that mammoth down the creek? Yeah, lets go and get it. And they pick up their spears and go for a hunt. One guy is the strongest so he will do the killing, others will do the chase and couple older guys will track the behemot and give some tips how to kill and skin it.
Women put some wood into the fire, gather their kids, start to fix the clothes, start to make all kinds of useful housewear, pots and plates and pins etc., try to look after their kids, talk about pregnancies, how the sex was last night, how their men are doing, how the old couple is doing in the next cave, women go get some water, they pick up cherries and blueberries, roots and nuts and other stuff to eat because it is not safe bet that the men bring anything back. Hunting is not sure thing.
The lesson? Men think one thing at the time. I hate to admit it but I’ve learned to understand myself and other guys and we are all much more simple than women think. If you put a problem a front of the man, he tries to solve it. Run, fight, stay put. These are the mens thoughts. Women start to think why, whom, where from, what if etc.
During the most of the human history, men have been running after meat. Only things they’ve done were geared towards that goal. Lets get some meat. That was the main thing. In questions of ownership it was simple too: This is my spear. No it is not. Well, I say it is. Unless you can take it from me, it will be mine. Simple thing again. Men are simplyfying everything down to the basics. “If you gotta go, you gotta go. Do what you gotta do. Man’s gotta to do what man’s gotta do. Let’s roll”. It is in our DNA.
And ladies, we still think the same way. A great example: women often get angry how the men can sit on the couch watching football and doing nothing. They can not. They are thinking all those things they think they have to do. Men just sit there and watch that stupid game all day long. Here is the secret, ladies; when we look at that game, we really don’t think anything at all. We just watch it. We are not thinking some hidden thoughts or fancy ways to avoid home work. We just watch the game. Period.
Women tend to believe that men are thinking things. They believe that we have secret motives in our actions. They think we have hidden agendas. Usually we do not. We just do things. Abagond is totally right. Sex and food are the main things for a man in marriage. And kids too. But that is all. We really don’t have any other requirements. If our wives give us sex, sex and sex, and good food occationally, we are happy men. I know it sounds sad, but it is true.
Also, one big thing: we can not read womens mind. We really do not know what you feel or think at any given time. We have no clue what so ever. If a guy tells you that he knows how you feel, he is saying something just to appease you. He really has no idea what you are talking about. He is just trying to survive impossible situation and make you feel good.
Ladies, don’t have too high hopes of us men. We are very simple creatures. We can run, fix cars, act like we know what we are doing, but when it comes to women, we have no idea. We just don’t understand you at all. Don’t get me wrong: we like you, love you and so on, but we have no idea what is going on inside of you. Women have too many moving parts in their minds. We can fix the stove because there are few parts, but relationships?
Here’s a finnish joke about a marriage: wife asked from her husband why he did not tell her how much he loves her, like he did at their wedding. Husband looked at her wife and said: didn’t we agree that I let you know if and when the situation changes?
A saying: Men are like pigs but thank God women love animals.
Another saying from over here: men are like pigs. Give them food, scartch them sometimes and let them sleep in the shit and they are happy.
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Sam,
I am sorry, but your “cavemen” analogy is simply not a suitable one. You see, back in the days when people were hunters there were NO pots to create. As far as we know, men did hunt, but women went outside too, they gathered fruits and other wild plants, and also collected honey. People moved a lot, with the animals, they didn’t have permanent homes. There were not many children to take care of- because you simply couldn’t carry them around.
The situation you described (with women staying at home) happened thousands of years AFTER the hunting scenario. men went outside, but they didn’t hunt, they were working on fields and with domestic animals.
Also, back in the hunter /gatherer communities, it was quicker to get food. You had to work for approximately 3-4hours a day. The rest you gave to other activities. Why do you think they had time to invent all those stories and built strong mythology and oral traditions? So men talked a lot, a lot with each other (and with women, I guess) too.
And that’s just the beginning of what’s wrong with your “cavemen” theory.
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Also, sam, there is NO reason for “hunting” and “solving problems” to be in male’s DNA. With many animals, females are those that hunt and “solve problems”. Also, with many animals, males are good for one thing only, and after that they are kicked out the community and left to die (because they are unable to take care of themselves). Cruel? Yes. But that’s not the point. The point is, your analogy is a bad one and makes no sense whatsoever.
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Oh, and to answer the mystery: it’s not DNA, it’s culture (well, most of the time). Nurture wins over nature with humans most of the time.
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Mira, you got too hung up with Sam’s caveman analogy and didn’t seem to see his point.
But he had a good point. Men are pretty darned simple, and he was right about that.
Abagond wrote this essay quite a while ago, so maybe he’s learned more since then, but women are quite a bit more complex in their thought patterns than men. Yes, ladies, most of the time your man isn’t thinking about anything in particular, and when he is, it’s usually about one of only four things.
Women are also much more sensual, as a group, than men–as in they get greater physical pleasure out of a wider range of stimuli. Ask a man what he would rather do than have sex, and most won’t come up with anything (not even the ones well past the age of having one).
Ask many women what they’d rather do, and I dare say most women can come up with five or six off the top of their heads…please don’t give her pencil and paper. I’m pretty sure my wife would rather me give her a hot oil foot massage–I know the suggestion of a hot oil foot massage puts a brighter gleam into her eyes than the suggestion of hot sex. I’m afraid to ask her which she actually likes more.
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Mira, you got too hung up with Sam’s caveman analogy and didn’t seem to see his point.
His point was that men and women think differently, I got that. But the way he explained it makes no sense. If men and women think differently, it’s not because of the reasons he used, because these reasons either don’t exist or he didn’t interpret them the right way (so much of male ability to solve problems).
The thing is, his whole theory of why men and women think differently is WRONG, plain and simple. He didn’t prove it’s true, and he certainly didn’t prove men and women do think differently.
Nobody asked him to use false scientific analogies. And yes, I know I sound like Thad here, but I just expected people not to use the “DNA excuse” when there is not one.
If men are pigs that’s why culture makes them that way. And btw, they are not pigs. Pigs are wonderful animals that humans used and abused for thousands of years. (Not saying that men aren’t wonderful animals…)
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I guess I sounded too harsh on sam. I am sorry. I am not angry and it’s not like I don’t respect his input here. I just dislike when people use false science analogies, especially regarding to differences between genders or races. They are never correct and they never make sense.
RDKirk, your comment about “what (wo)men would rather do than have sex” is interesting, but please keep in mind answers don’t depend on biology only- as anything related to humans, it’s cultural. Men have a cultural imperative to think sex is the best thing there is.
I sometimes believe it’s not because men like sex more than women, but because, unlike women, they know they can’t get it whenever they want. (Which is also a cultural, not a biological thing).
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Well, Mira. In the so-called hunter-gatherer groups men and women did different jobs. Men hunted and women gathered. And took care of the children. And they used to live in caves for thousands of years, the neaderthals AND homo sapienses too. Thousands of years BEFORE any acriculture was in sight. That is a scientific fact. So your critisism in that point is not based on any fact.
Before acriculture men lived in caves or such shelters more or less frequently, actually humanbeings have lived in those places tens of thousands of years longer than in any other habitat during the history of this species. And that cultural effect has its echos up till today. That is why men think the way they do and women how they do.
I-phones and all kinds of trinketts make it look like we have come far away from those days, but man as biological creature has changed a little during the past 25 000 years. Some scientists have said that if a baby from 20 000 years ago could be transported todays world and grew up midst of us, nobody would notice any difference. Thats the biology of our only race, human race.
As for the nomadic lifestyle, all you have to do is look how native americans lived for thousands of years. Actually they lived pretty much the same way up till the white man came, killed most of them and their buffaloes. Men and women had different tasks on those societies too. Men were hunters and warriors, or at least liked to think that way, and women took care of the rest, like kept everything in order so that men could ride around in their nice war paints and stuff. Just like it is today in normal offices: men strut around with their rolexes and silk ties and women take care of the house, organise the meetings and make sure that there are chairs for all those guys in their fancy suits. Guys don’t even think that.
As for the pots and pans, it is true that clay pots and such became more used after the acricultural revolution, BUT they were in use in nomadic societies too. The Huns used to have iron pots which weighed up to thousand pounds. Those had to be moved by the ox in carts. And yet, they were nomadic people. The early turks were similar too, as well as mongols etc. Also, the earliest clay pots which have been found pre-date the acricultural revolution by thousands of years.
That a side, RD got my point. Men are much more simple than women. For what ever reason it is so. But because we tend to think that the other sex thinks just like us, we miss communicate. Men think that women say what they think, when very often women say something and think that men will add the dots and translate the rest.
How many times, ladies, you have said to some guy: “you should have been able to understand what I was thinking? You should have understud that I did not want you to go out with your friends when I said that you can go if you want?”. We men just can’t understand those things. If you say to your man “I guess it is ok”, your man thinks: she says it is ok. If you say “I’m not telling you that you can’t go, but I would like you to stay home with me” your man hears: she is not telling me to go aka. she says that I can go. And then when you get mad, we just don’t understand why you are mad. After all, you did not say that DO NOT GO.
As for the pigs, maybe I was too harsh for them. Men are apes after all. And if you look at some documentary of baboons or bunch of chimpanzees hangin around togehter and then look at your man and his friends, it is very clear who we are. So, in conclusion, ladies, don’t think for a second that we men are figuring out what you mean if you don’t spell it out. When you are mad and shouting at us, some of us even then think: damn, she looks so hot when she is mad!:D
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Sam,
I don’t want to sound arrogant, but you shouldn’t argue archaeological facts with me if you aren’t familiar with them (and, as far as I can tell, you are not). Not because I’m superior or a genius, but because many facts you mention are simply not true.
For example:
And they used to live in caves for thousands of years, the neaderthals AND homo sapienses too.
No, they did not. They did use caves, but not as much as we used to think. They had dwellings elsewhere, and caves were probably used in special cases. The reason most of the paleolithic sites are found in caves is because that’s where they are mostly preserved, NOT because people lived mainly in caves.
As for hunting vs foraging, there’s no much of a difference in terms of thinking about solving a problem. And when it comes to kids, they did carry them around, if they could. If they couldn’t… You can imagine what was happening.
Some scientists have said that if a baby from 20 000 years ago could be transported todays world and grew up midst of us, nobody would notice any difference. Thats the biology of our only race, human race.
That’s because said baby was also a Homo Sapiens Sapiens, like us. Nobody would notice differences because WE would socialize said child and not her parents in paleolithic times. So basically that’s what I’m talking about: nurture is very important here; the differences between men and women act and think are not so much biology but culture.
As for the nomadic lifestyle, all you have to do is look how native americans lived for thousands of years.
It’s not nomadic lifestyle I was talking about, it was PALEOLITHIC. Back then, agriculture DIDN’T EXIST anywhere in the world. POTTERY DIDN’T EXIST. So no, paleolithic peoples didn’t make pottery.
These are factual errors in your comment.
However, I don’t want to act like Thad here. None of this is THAT important. All I’m saying, your facts are wrong, and don’t prove your theory. BUT if you want to discuss that men and women think differently, I am more than interested. We just can’t use your analogy as an argument, that’s all I’m saying.
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And now back to the actual discussion.
I don’t think men and women are the same, but I think the differences are more cultural (the different ways boys and girls are socialized) than the actual hormonal and anatomical differences.
So women are made to behave and think in a certain way, that is often different than how men are made to behave and think. Culture and socialization shape are views, behavior, even the way we think.
The thing is, while it might be natural for women to take care of babies, it is not natural for men to work. The way societies are shaped is not natural. There’s no such thins as a “natural” human society. So using any DNA argument to explain why men are unable to put the toilet seat down is ridiculous. (Speaking of which, I never understood why women find it so horrible if men leave the seat up… It’s not like I’m going to sit without looking).
Also, believe it or not, sam, I don’t know any woman who’d say to her man “you should have been able to understand what I was thinking”. Instead, they would make it as an absolute fact: “you should have been able to understand why X is important/why we should do X in the way I think it should be done”. So, in other words, women, like any other humans, often believe what they think is right to be absolutely right.
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Well, I don’t want to sound like Thad either, nor I could, but your claim that people lived somewhere else during paleolithic period rather than in caves is just a guess. Nobody can show that is the case. Like you said, the caves preserved stuff.
However, of course people did not stay in caves all day long 24/7. During the warm and light periods they propably stayed out as much as possible. But the caves were bases, homes, churches, castles etc. That is an absolute fact. There is evidence of it. Other than that, it is just a guess that “they had dwellings elsewhere”. Where? Huts and stuff like that, for sure, but where was the most steady place to live? In the caves.
I think it is our modern idea of living in the caves in dark smoky and filthy enviroment is what makes it repulsive to think that whole families could and did live in caves for decades. In reality it can be quite normal. You want proof? Well, some parts of North Africa people still live in caves, rooms carved in stone. They used to live this way in Anatolia too, long after the birth of acriculture. Not so long ago in Calabria in southern Italy lots of people lived in caves. So the idea of living in caves is not so distant nor it is unusual for homo sapiens sapiens. It is also practical. North African “cave apartments” are cool during the summer and dry during the winter. Only thing missing is light. Living in cave means also that you don’t have to fix the place up after a heavy storm or rough winter. You just step outside.
As for the pots, I should have been more specific. I did not mean pottery in classical sense. I meant all kinds of things that can be used to cooking such as flat stones, stone cups etc. These they made for sure. These have been found. I have been using them myself when I did catch some fish in our summer place. Fully functional stuff.
I don’t believe that they dropped they babies if they could not carry them. They did carry them or stayed put. Babies were the future of the whole family or tribe. They simply could not abandon single kid back then. The very iodea of abandoning your offsprings became when the population expoloded after the invention of farming. Then you could have too many kids. So abandoning ones offspring is also cultural thing and very modern too. Once you can afford to throw a baby away, you can. But not in those days when the whole future of the family depended upon those kids.
You seem to be firm believer of human evolution, that some how we are very advanced versions of those of our forefathers. I’m the opposite. I think we are very much the same we were 20 000 years ago. I also belive that our actions and thoughts are defined much more by some very basic human ideas and instincts which developed during tens of thousands of years. These “echos” from our past are much stronger than some intellectual ideas of behavior.
Example? War. There is no reason for any of these wars. Not for anybody. Oh yes, we can argue that they are about culture/religion/politics/economics and dress them up with mumbojumbo intellectual explanations but basically they are based on the same points that the clashes between different tribes/families were based on: “we tell you what to do!- no you don’t. -yes we do! – no you don’t! – if you don’t do what we want, we will attack you! – we will attack back!” and so on. That is all. It is the base of all conflicts, big or small, and very human.
The same goes on between women and men. You belive that culture is the defining thing in this relationship. I think it has more to do with biology. The proof? All the mammals in this planet. If it was only a cultural thing, then all those species, which don’t seem to have culture as we know it, would be the same. There would no difference between a male and female. And yet, is there?? Yes there is.
There is difference in behavior, actions, priorities, patterns of behavior etcetcetc. Why would human be any different? We are not. We are animals too. Religions have sprung the idea that we are not animals. But we are. We are very smart animals but still, animals we are. We can change our behavior, modify it, learn and correct, but still we are animals. And the very basic essence of any species is the thing between males and females. The will of producing offsprings.
And there in lies the question: is there any biological difference between men and women? I argue that there is and this is the simple reason for the problems between us, males and females. For some reason, some claim that there is no difference in our thinking. I think it is a clever idea from the smart animal, but like many ideas, it is not true. I argue that for the simple reason of two sexes, there are two ways of thinking, and that this is based on our biology.
I’m sorry, but I belive this way. My belief is based on the observations and experiences from several different cultures, “races”, from four continents during some plus thirty odd years of my life. It does not matter weather you are in Cairo or in Minneapolis, in Helsinki or Lagos, in New York City or St. Petersburg, men and women argue about the same things. Absolutely same things! How this could be, if the cultures would mould us differently?
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Actually, sam, there are evidences all over the world for non-cave dwellings. But the problem is, most of them are poorly preserved. Also, they didn’t have permanent settlements back then, and exploring a non-permanent settlement is always a difficult task.
And btw, no, I don’t see caves as dirty and ugly places to live. But are they practical? It depends on many factors, for example, if somebody else lives there. 😉
In any case, whether they actually lived in caves or not is not important for this discussion.
I don’t believe that they dropped they babies if they could not carry them. They did carry them or stayed put. Babies were the future of the whole family or tribe.
Actually, kids were often more of a burden than the future. You could always have another, but you could not stay put while wild animals move because of a child: what would the group eat?
One of the reasons why population exploded in neolithic times is because they could manage to have more kids. They didn’t have to move. They also didn’t have to rely on wild animals- they had food near the home. On the other hand, the food was not that tasty and they had to work much harder to get it- but they decided it’s worth it. The security was worth it. So if you want to blame something, blame neolithic times, not paleolithic! 😉
You seem to be firm believer of human evolution, that some how we are very advanced versions of those of our forefathers.
No, I do think we are the same (less for small genetic mutations). But the culture is not the same, and that is what is making the difference. I’m not necessarily believe it’s better today than it was 35000 years ago, though. But the culture is different.
Example? War. There is no reason for any of these wars.
Actually, I believe humans can’t do without wars. It’s a permanent mechanism that exists in all human cultures. One would argue that is cultural answer to natural selection. I wouldn’t go that far, but one thing is sure: there is a reason behind human wars; for some reason, humans need wars.
If it was only a cultural thing, then all those species, which don’t seem to have culture as we know it, would be the same. There would no difference between a male and female. And yet, is there?? Yes there is.
I guess I wasn’t clear. Of course there are biological differences between males and females. In Syrian hamsters, for example, males are always tame and gentle and females are “wilder” and more difficult to tame. In lions, females hunt more than males.
So there is a biological basis for human behavior, no doubt. But I believe nurture wins over nature, and the result you see today it more due to cultural differences and not biology. The first time a parent say to his son “don’t cry, you’re acting like a girl” and to his daughter “girls don’t do that” (whatever it is) he is making a difference and enabling nurture to win over nature.
Everything related to humans, even things that are rooted in biology, are culturally constructed and culturally specific. You can’t escape that. You can’t even tell which of human behavior is “natural” in true sense of the word.
I’m sorry, but I belive this way.
You don’t have to apologize for your beliefs!
PS-My husband spent more money today than we agreed. He completely forgot we agreed to save some of it for tomorrow. I’d never forget that. What was he thinking?
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He was not thinking Mira 😀
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That’s what I was thinking, but what do I know? I needed a male opinion here. 😀
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Mira,
“Everything related to humans, even things that are rooted in biology, are culturally constructed and culturally specific. You can’t escape that. You can’t even tell which of human behavior is “natural” in true sense of the word.”
Agreed. Very much agreed.
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Mira said:
“Oh, I know hot to cook basics… I’m just not particularly good at it. I tend to forget about the most basic things, such as to add salt or I simply don’t have enough patience and it results in a mess. Which is bad, I know. But it just happened that way that my husband is much better than me in cooking (he grew up without a mother so he learned as a teenager), so he’s cooking. There are some things I can cook better than him, so I cook these.”
Actually Mira, there’s simple solution to ‘but I can’t cook!’ Do more in the bedroom and he won’t CARE! (Blakgenius grins)
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I’m very late but I had to comment. For me sex is the most important thing in a marriage after her well being. I’m not an evolutionary machine (I hate to hear crap like this is evolution in control). I love sex for the closeness, the smell and the pleasure in pleasing someone I love and care for. I remember the smell of sex long after it’s done and it brings back the event. Kissing is paramount to sex being great for me. With hookers and the like kissing will not be possible so no mater what I would be left unfulfilled. When my wife doesn’t match my sex drive I feel it’s a rejection of me not sex. I have to suppress my drive to be considerate to her feelings and wants. Marriage is supposed to be a compromise between two people who love each other. What is the point in getting married if only one person has to sacrifice while the other lives according to their own rules? In a marriage one is to think about the other first. If I suppress my drive so as not to wear her out, she should at least meet half way by having sex a little more often. Just like working out, you don’t want to when you start, but after you feel great. I could also spend the evening just pleasing my wife without mutual because I get the chance to release my passion too and I enjoy it. This can also happen to a woman too. I think whether women or men will admit it or not sex is a big part of the equation for getting married. To not try to fulfill your partner’s needs is just plain selfish and against your marriage vows. If the other partner decides to seek fulfillment elsewhere then there can be no blaming the other because you haven’ held up your end. I know we are given strengths and weaknesses to use or overcome. For some sex is a major weakness and in a marriage your partner can really strengthen and complete you. Of course if there are other big problems such as abuse, or a physical problems then those have to dealt with first. To just not do anything at all and let your partner burn is wrong on many levels. I am going through the exact same thing only worse Abagond and far longer.
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@Wepnx–
When my wife doesn’t match my sex drive I feel it’s a rejection of me not sex. I have to suppress my drive to be considerate to her feelings and wants. Marriage is supposed to be a compromise between two people who love each other. What is the point in getting married if only one person has to sacrifice while the other lives according to their own rules? In a marriage one is to think about the other first. If I suppress my drive so as not to wear her out, she should at least meet half way by having sex a little more often.
Generally, when women don’t want sex or physical intimacy, it’s because the man is not satisfying her outside the bedroom. I’m not married but I’ve heard plenty of women talking about this.
If I don’t like something a man I go out with, did or didn’t do, or said when we were out somewhere, I wouldn’t want physical intimacy with him. There’s a direct connection.
Another reason that a woman doesn’t want sex is because the man doesn’t know how to please her sexually. Women usually don’t want to hurt a man’s ego by telling him the truth about that, so she avoids sex. She’s thinking- Why bother? If you are pleasing her sexually the way she wants it and if you’re pleasing her outside the bedroom, she will want to have sex almost all the time, just like you do.
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@Wepnx
When my wife doesn’t match my sex drive I feel it’s a rejection of me not sex.
Surely not. There are times when sex does not feel like a priority in ones life. Many external factors contribute to this i.e. hectic/stressful life, shite job as do internal feelings too i.e. weight gain, childbirth etc. I guess you have spoke to your wife about this and clarified what if anything is the issue but, nevertheless it still sounds as though you are disatissfied. Would it matter to you if your wife was an ‘active’ participant? i.e. some women are able to just lie back and think of ‘England’ so to speak and let the man get on with what he is doing.
Honesty with oneself is a must too. Did both of you ‘match’ each other in terms of ardour when you first met or, is it that your desire has become greater over time? In which case, perhaps you need to look at and ‘manage’ your own feelings and be more open to compromise with your wife.
If the other partner decides to seek fulfillment elsewhere then there can be no blaming the other because you haven’ held up your end.
This is just an excuse IMO. Be honest, stand up and say what your expectations are but, be realistic and respect what your partner has to say on the matter too. At the end of the day, people aren’t machines – they cant be programmed to ‘shut down’ their feelings just because hubby wants to get his leg over…..again…and again…and again….
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@Joriba and Wepnx
My comment is in moderation but, as a married woman I will say this – there are many times when couples are not necesarily in tandem when it comes to sex however, in my experience sometimes putting things on hold temporarily to cool your hubbies ardour can make for the most climatic and exciting times in the boudouir. Now, I dont mean holding in a cruel way but, it can be a way for a female to exert ‘control’ in the bedroom. Tell me what man doesnt want to be dominated in the sack every now and again. 😉
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When my father was my age, he had a stash of Playboy magazines under the seat of his car. I wondered why – he was a married man, after all. Now I see why.
I much prefer openess where these matters are concerned – looking at these things together can be fun. Erotic fiction is more my thang though….
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Wepnix, you have to try to give her the space. Try to wait for her to ask you for a couple of times and dont preasure her….
Are you giving her orgasms? I reccomend masterbating inbetween sex wth her, just to keep your sex drive satisfied…
Working it out with her in the long run will be better, if you dont work it out, it may just grate on you too much and you will go have an affair or leave her
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Based on my limited knowledge of
relationships between men and women, especially in the case of nagging, the man has to realize that the woman might be expressing another problem other than she brings up. A lot of people use euphemisms to express their original ailment. So, the man needs patience and the ability TO LISTEN to his woman’s worries.
The way I have had most and willing sex in a relationship with a woman is to LISTEN to her, taking HER OPINIONS seriously. Not belittling them, but sitting down and really listening to her thoughts. Being compassionate and affectionate. LISTEN what she says, try to adjust to her mind. Showing both mental and physical compassion will most definitely put both of you in the “mood”, so to speak.
Do not just “demand” sexual favors from the woman, be prepared to listen to her and her worries. She will appreciate it. AND it will bring both of you closer TOGETHER. And be understandable if she does not feel like. You are in a relationship to satisfy one another, not just the male counterpart.
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@ Demerera, jorbia
Thank you all for you encouragement and advise. I have tried all the things mentioned. My wife has never worked nor wanted to which is fine with me. I don’t care either way because it doesn’t change my responsibility at all. Her issue is pain which I understand and don’t expect her to endure for my benefit. It’s is a psychological condition caused by a sexual assault in her childhood.
@ B.R. she won’t ask. It’s been over a year. I don’t even ask her and she knows it’s breaking me down. I read and study every thing to get to know how I could make it more enjoyable for her. Most things she just will not let me try. She told me she doesn’t like sex and never really has cared that much about it.
@ SW6 ” Enjoying her scent is a way to eat her up, take in her essence. It’s a way to make her part of you. Jesus! it is such a big deal”
This is probably the thing I miss the most for the most along with a woman’s touch. The main problem I am having is I’m really burning up and don’t feel she is actively trying to help find a solution. She is fine with not having sex so I should just deal with it. In every other way she puts me on a pedestal as an Ideal man to have.Sex is just not as important to her as it is to me. Like I said the smell of sex and the closeness goes a long way in the satisfying nature of sex to me.
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The most eager women in a relationhip have been the ones I showered with everyday affection. “How are you? Did you have a good day? Whqt do you think? What would you like to do? Is there something I coud do?”
Simultaniously keeping her very close to your body, filling her with physical affection. Touching her tenderly, lovingly without any sexual demand. Hugging her, giving a few kisses, wrapping your big arms around her body. Whispering some soft compliments. Not needing to insinuate the prospect of sexual congress, but suggesting it might lead there if both of you felt like that. No pressure, though. Most women respond to that: show that you care, that she ‘s the women in your life. Keeping her CLOSE and safe, showing tenderness and love.
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@Wepnx–
She told me she doesn’t like sex and never really has cared that much about it.
Considering she’s been abused, this is understandable if she didn’t get help.
Have you probed (delicately, of course) to find out whether she cares if you get another woman just for sex? Some men and women don’t care about that if their spouse is very discreet. After all, there are many polyamorous relationships going on.
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@Hannu–You really know how to make it steamy in here, don’t you? lol
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@ jorbia
“Have you probed (delicately, of course) to find out whether she cares if you get another woman just for sex?”
Yes she has. She doesn’t want to know about it. She actually introduced me to some a long time ago. That’s how I know I can please women and there’s nothing wrong with my skills. She brought it up not me. I know deep inside she really doesn’t want me to do it because she thinks I will change how I feel about her. That’s not going to happen. How can I leave someone so willing to go that far for me? We have been married since 1981 and I’m not fifty yet. God gave me the power to overcome many things in my life but the love of making love to one I care about isn’t one of them.
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@Wepnx–
She actually introduced me to some a long time ago. That’s how I know I can please women and there’s nothing wrong with my skills. She brought it up not me. I know deep inside she really doesn’t want me to do it because she thinks I will change how I feel about her. That’s not going to happen. How can I leave someone so willing to go that far for me?
You don’t have to leave her. You’re just going out to get a supply of sex just like you go to get anything else you need. I thought that men could compartmentalize and easily separate the mechanical sex act from love.
Sounds like you want more than sexual relief, and it sounds like you’re hoping that by self-torturing yourself, your wife will see this and her love for you will swell up and heal her sexual wounds.
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I would rather have her. The self torture as you say is because of my beliefs. I do feel guilty having the desire to find relief elsewhere. I’m also smart enough to realize this is consuming me and who I am inside. I know of no woman that can appreciate me and except my faults better than her at this time. I know without a shadow of a doubt if I was stricken with a debilitating decease, she would take care of me for the duration of my life and not bolt for the door. That’s how much trust I have in her love. My trust in her and love for her is why I’m conflicted.
“I recommend masterbating inbetween sex wth her, just to keep your sex drive satisfied…”
Nothing outside of a real woman works for me because none of the other reasons I like sex would be present. I’m not ready to live a celibate life yet.
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Wepnx,
Part of the reason for your more recent ‘drought’ might be due to your wife’s hormonal levels.
As you’ve been married 31 years, I’m surmising that your wife is somewhere close to 50, and might be perimenopausal / menopausal. From what I’ve read, the sex drive can take a nosedive during this time of a woman’s life due to hormonal changes et cetera.
Also, have you tried speaking with her (in a non-accusatory manner, of course) about the lack of compromise in the situation?
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Her drive disappeared 28 years ago. She is a few years older than I am. She used to do other things to help but not the last few years. I do feel that menopause is also a factor. She has never once blamed me for the reason we don’t have intimacy in our marriage. She blames herself but I don’t totally accept that. I’m sure I have a measure of responsibility too. That’s just reality.
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Wepnx, good luck, and thank you for sharing…I really hope you all can discover some solution…..I feel for your situaion
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Wepnx
I feel for you, I really do. There’s nothing worse than something being within your grasp that you just cant touch. Please listen to the advise on here though and I urge you, dont succumb to…well, anything, without having a conversation with your wife and being open and honest about how you feel. To be honest, it doesnt sound like straying will fulfill you anyway.
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@ B.R. , Demerera, Fiamma, jorbia,and other I might have missed thank you. Just talking about it makes me feel a little bit better. Until Abagond said this I thought I was the only one.
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Oddly enough I searched for this because the last week has been this way with my husband and I. Frankly it is something new for us and really brought about a mass amount of stress and anger. I remember him saying how my mouth was the reason we have cut back on sex.
So I made a change. Less talking and more seduction without giving in. I figure if he is going to torture me for being vocal, then I will torture him. 🙂
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“I figure if he is going to torture me for being vocal, then I will torture him. :)”
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@ Sharina
I’m a firm believer in teaching people how to treat you.
If “torture” is going to make both you and your husband happy, then do that.
If it doesn’t bring lasting happiness to your relationship then do something (GOOD) different.
Competition (who can WIN the torture battle) within a marriage doesn’t make for a lasting bond. Try adding more cooperation, reflection, patience and prayer. And doing things differently…
🙂
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I thought sex stopped after marriage(according to my girlfriends), that’s why I do not want to marry!
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Fan …
Torture in this instance is more of a sexual innuendo. A dance between us or a game of chess. It is a matter of seeing who can make who want it more.
To see a grown man blush is quite an amazing thing, but the again so is seeing a grown women do it is too. lol
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correction “but then again so is seeing a grown women do it, is too. lol
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Herneith
Sex doesn’t stop, but it can go stale. If you catch my drift.
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Sharina,
Sounds like you guys are still in the honeymoon stage.
Advice: ENJOY this stage as much as possible!! If you guys can still make each other blush, then y’all are doing something right!
[27. R X R check – Mate in 4!] : p
@ Herneith
If sex stops after marriage, then someone (or someones) isn’t putting in the work or effort in the marriage.
Have you seen, Diary of a Tired Blackman?
Hopefully your girlfriends aren’t like those in this movie!
Sometimes men get tired of the hoops they gotta jump through.
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Fan …
“Sounds like you guys are still in the honeymoon stage.”—-It is odd you say that because we have had several people in the store stop us or just stare and smile when they see us together. Though many don’t realize that we have been together for 12 years.
“If sex stops after marriage, then someone (or someones) isn’t putting in the work or effort in the marriage.”—-That I fully agree with. Too often the attitude becomes “I got them so I don’t have to try.” Things change and married couples have to constantly explore and get to know each other sexually. Regular sex creates a bond.
“Sometimes men get tired of the hoops they gotta jump through.”—Agreed.
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If sex stops after marriage, then someone (or someones) isn’t putting in the work or effort in the marriage.
Another good reason not to get married, I agree!
Have you seen, Diary of a Tired Blackman?
Is that a movie about an overworked man who must juggle cooking, housework and childrearing while married to a lazy wife? No, I can’t say I have.
Hopefully your girlfriends aren’t like those in this movie!
They may be! Their husbands don’t divorce them as it may be cheaper to stay married!
Sometimes men get tired of the hoops they gotta jump through.
Jumping through hoops keeps them in shape!
Just joking dear(I suffer from chronic jocularity, can’t help it). Seriously, relationships are two-way streets, they may wax and wane over the years. Hopefully, they wax more than wane.
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Oh God No WTH is this this !!??!?!!?!?! Everyone knows that marriage is eurocentric, heteronormative system of control put in place by the white man so that he could black people to easily breed more slaves for him!
It is only right that the black man, know free from slavery, should be freed from sexual/financial slavery as well. We as blackmen must reject marriage, and find our true natures again. For while our ancestors hunted in the freely in the savannah, we must now hunt freely in the city. And did our ancestors stop hunting after slaying one pig? No! So why should their descendants stop hunting after slaying one punani?
Our tools have become more superior, our techniques more savage. Our African forefathers only had spears, we have Craigslist, PlentyofFish, and Android phone. Butthese sell-out black women want us to atrophy in the prison of marriage, were pum-pum must be earned through chores gifts? No I say! No!
Soon, enough of my brothers will realize that having a battalion of bitches at your bedside outweighs any advantage to be conferred by the (Gay Agenda’s) institution of marriage, something we never practiced when we were in Africa. Our time is now brothers. Join the revolution.
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“…we have had several people in the store stop us or just stare and smile when they see us together.Though many don’t realize that we have been together for 12 years.”
@ Sharina
Twelve years?? That in itself (in today’s high divorce rate climate) ought to qualify YOU to be a marriage counselor! 😉
LOL Since you are SO agreeable, you and hubby seem destined to a long and happy union with relatively few bumps. A very smart gal like you seems equipped with the know how to keep it going… compromise and cooperation.
If the competition is confined to minor fun things like chess, I think you guys will be alright as you remember that the sex will invariably eventually decline, and other areas of your happy union will hopefully counter that loss. Affection and communication matters!
Nothing but the best for you, hubby and the kids this coming year.
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“Is that a movie about an overworked man who must juggle cooking, housework and childrearing while married to a lazy wife? No, I can’t say I have. ”
@Herneith
lol… aahh nope! Not quite.
It’s about a hardworking faithful Black man who struggles with a Black wife who is lacking in the “wifely skills” department. Her lack has nothing to do with sex or housekeeping. She only lacks the ability to act like like a decent/loving wife. lol
This wife is combative, complaining, argumentative, angry, disrespectful, unkind and unsupportive towards THE one good man in her life she has no reason to act that way towards. She can’t seem to help herself, even as she acknowledges her issues. Her problem is that she grew up in a fatherless home without a living template of what a good wife looks like. Instead of seeking out that kind of role model, or getting help for her deficits, she instead surrounds herself with a bunch of angry loser Black women who don’t have relationships of their own who give her advice which inevitably turns her into a carbon copy of their poor miserable/angry existence. The husband, after much pain and consternation winds up divorcing her, yet remains financially responsible for her and their child.
There’s now another movie (part 2) in production by the same guy, Tim Alexander. Apparently the protagonist’s little girl has grown into young Black womanhood with the same disrespectful, rebellious attitude and ways she clearly learned from her mother.
The producer is looking for monetary donations to complete part 2 and make part 3. Part three will be about learning how to resolve this problematic issue that sadly affects so many people today.
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The movie is from the 2007 to 2011 era.It is…..problematic.
(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1HVcFyF-mco)
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Plenty of fish? Craigslist? Strap up and some $20s. Ugh. Being married aint so bad.
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Fan …
I would usually not watch or engage in movies that seek to put down women, especially black women but I have learned that there are women out there that need help. Issues in women manifest in a lot of ways. The female in that movie and her friends are symbolism of what I have experienced.
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“I would usually not watch or engage in movies that seek to put down women, especially black women but I have learned that there are women out there that need help.”
.
@ Sharina
I don’t see this as a docu-drama that’s about putting down (Black) women. I see as a movie meant to bring a little light to some of what plagues us.
There are just as many men, imo, as there are women that need help in terms of how to behave in relationships, or how to be a proper role model. The problem with us is by no means a one gender issue.
Both genders need help because, imo, we have adopted western values… me, Me, ME…. first, second, third and so on. We have lost sight of our own African roots, and our own African role models.
You watched that movie, seemingly with an open mind. That’s all that’s required, having an open mind. We can all move forward with an OPEN mind.
🙂
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@Fan….
I will watch the movie with an open mind, but much of my understanding of it I can say I don’t disagree with.
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