On this thread nothing is off topic, though the rest of the comment policy still applies. If you want to say something off topic, this is the place to do it.
I am not sure how this will go, but I am willing to give it a try.
On this thread nothing is off topic, though the rest of the comment policy still applies. If you want to say something off topic, this is the place to do it.
I am not sure how this will go, but I am willing to give it a try.
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The Open Thread is now open for business. If you want to say something off topic, this is the place to do it. There is a link to it at the top of every page.
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Yay, abagond! Now I’m trying to figure out what I’m going to say first. 😉
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Oh, and thank you, thank you, THANK YOU! 😀
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Lets discuss handbags, footwear, clothes, skin care, cosmetics, Belgian chocolates, beefcake and software, not necessarily in that order. How about starting with handbags?
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Yay! I have something interesting. Today is my 21st birthday, and I’ve never had an alcoholic beverage. I’ve sipped a beer once but nothing more. I’ll try something today and get back to you guys…
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@Y:
Happy Birthday to you! A Happy 21st a that! 😀
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I meant at that! 😉
@Herneith:
You remind me of my sister. 🙂 She has quite the handbag collection. Thankfully, I can borrow her bags at any time.
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@Y:
Don’t bother trying alcohol! Happy Birthday!
@Leigh:
If any of my sisters look covetously at any of my handbags, much less touch them, they are forfeiting their very existence! Mind you, I have had to purchase them handbags over the years to prevent this!
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Talking about handbags, I bought a persimmon coloured one at the One of A Kind Show! I bought an orange chump change wallet to accompany it, it has a cute little handle!
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@Herneith:
Ooh, sounds like a great find. I bought a purse to add to my sister’s collection for X’mas. I hope she loves it.
Now here’s where I’ll need your help ladies. My lashes are skimpy and short (curses!) and I’ve been having the darndest time trying to find a mascara that doesn’t leave me with raccoon eyes. Can anyone please recommend a mascara to avoid the dreaded raccoon eyes?
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My lashes are skimpy and short (curses!)
I don’t use mascara frequently, but I have used Illegal Lengths by one of those brands, Cover girl, Revlon, I forgot which. I have used Christian Dior which came in cobalt blue, plum, green and black(I got a great deal, otherwise I wouldn’t have bought them). Lancome makes pretty good mascara as does Guerlain, however, the prices are prohibitive as you should throw your mascara out after three months. Stick to the cheap ones, they are all the same. You are paying for the advertisement and the names, the same with lipsticks, foundations etc. Oh I found this new lip paint by Revlon that stays on for most of the day! This thread calls for more shopping!
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Happy birthday, Y!
Oh, I like this thread. 🙂
I am sorry, I can’t help with mascara question (my lashes are skimpy and short, too!, but I don’t use it), and I know nothing about handbags. Oh, well.
All I want to say is that I am still interested in following this blog. I know I’ve been away lately, but that’s mostly because I focused on other things (namely, NaNoWriMo and this novel I haven’t finished yet). I miss you all (well, minus the trolls).
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I know nothing about handbags.
Should you have any questions, feel free to ask me!
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OH Yes! Please Please can we talk and discuss more about handbags!!!!!
(Just kidding of course. Knock yourself out. You go gals!!!)
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They got plenty of man bags out there to, dear. These discussions are just for starter. Start off on a light note(s), and move up to heavier things.
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Oh, by the way, I bought my nephew a man bag to celebrate his new job!
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Herneith,
Should you have any questions, feel free to ask me!
Um, why are they important? (I’m not trying to be rude here… I really don’t see the appeal).
Then again, I am a tomboy.
Plus, I don’t wear a wallet (never- I used to, but I got robbed a couple of times, so no thanks), and my keys and smaller stuff are in my pockets. Other stuff goes in my backpack.
My grandmother had a kitschy, yet, adorable handbag. SO whenever I think of a handbag, I think of it. (I might take a picture for you to see it). It’s really something.
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Leigh,
Try Mabelline XXL. That’s the only mascara I use and I love it! I’m always getting compliments on my lashes because of it. Some women don’t like it because you have to put on a white coating before the black mascara but it worth the trouble IMO. I highly recommend it!
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Thanks for the B-Day wishes everyone.
I more interested in eating cake than trying liquor today. Also, the smell is off-putting, I may have to skip on it, lol.
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@Y: I have to admit, I don’t drink at all. Reason: I just don’t like the taste of alcohol. For a finn that is very strange thing indeed but I’ve learned to live sober.
As for the man bags: I’m sorry but as an uncivilized heathen from the western siberian woods I have to say: I don’t even know what they are. 😀
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Thank you, Herneith and thank you, Y, for your suggestions. I’m looking forward to long, lush lashes sans raccoon eyes. 😀
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Um, why are they important? (I’m not trying to be rude here… I really don’t see the appeal).
If you don’t like handbags, then okay. Perhaps knapsacks are more to your taste?
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@sam:
This is a man bag:
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yes!!!!
agagond put up an open thread.
*chic noir looks at abagond bashfully*
thank you abagond.
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happy b-day y 🙂
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Y have a strawberry daiguri, strawberry margaretta or strawberry mojito.
be careful, the margareetta is strong stuff.
I use clinique mascara in the grey tube. I have naturally long thick lashes but I still like them to look longer. I sometimes got the fake lash thing before fakes became popular again.
bags …. chile wear to start.
I’m saving for a Balenciaga moto bag. I refuse to buy it outright and feel guilty so I’m saving for it.
I also like the alexander wang darcy sloucy hobo bag in blk
and the brenda zip alexander wang bag.
there are few chloe bags I dig too.
I think my xmas gift to myself this year will be a blk or tan michael kors Skorpios E/W Tote bag.
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I’ma start a mini series here with abagond’s permission.
*chic noir blinks lashes sweetly at abagond*
It’s called blk women you should know</b.
Number one is Artist Wangechi Mutu. She's from Kenya and has been featured twice in Vogue magazine.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fqCH8uFdCG8
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I love Tano handbags! I bought my first:
I working on my second.
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Give the ladies an opportunity, and they will start talking about handbags 😉
@ Kwamla: nice new Gravatar picture! You like vaguely Idris Elba-esque.
@ Y: Happy Birthday!
Want to try a drink? Try the “Eurasian Sensation special”: blend up some tinned lychees, some cointreau or blue curacao, soda water, and a good squeeze of lime. I made it a while back and it was fantastic. Of course I was drunk at the time so I may have got the recipe wrong.
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Thanks herneith! Now I know.
@Y: if you drink, don’t pretend to be civilized. Drink like finns: straight and pure, fast and a lot. This way you get the true experience of being drunk. Totally.
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Hey thanks for compliment Eurasian. He is British too though!!!
All this talk about man bags reminds me of this scene with Riley from the Boondocks:
Do you think its gonna catch on?
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@kwamala: 😀 that is hilarious! no man bags for me, though. nor gangstalious shorts. nor purses. I have money in my pocket rolled, like I always have had. 😀
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😀 Glad you liked it Sam!
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Open topic – I love it!! Nice to have a place to simply say whatever I want about anything!
So, first question – how do I convert emoticons? I’m tired of just putting a : ) in…
Second question: Someone had mentioned in a post, somewhere, that they enjoy Ren Faires, MMORPGS, and medieval siege machines. I can’t recall who! I hoped to talk with them about the engineering behind ballistae, trebuchets, catapults, and battering rams. It can’t ALWAYS be about makeup and handbags, LOL – some of us ladies like to talk about a wide variety of subjects!
And Solstice is tomorrow – a full moon with a lunar eclipse; very exciting and auspicious!
For that matter…books and/or music, anyone? My favorite authors include Stephen King, Octavia Butler (R.I.P.), Robin Cook, Jonathan Kellerman, Harlan Coben, Karin Slaughter, Patricia Cornwell, Dan Simmons, David Gemmel (R.I.P.), Dean Koontz, and John Saul, just to name a few.
My musical tastes are as eclectic as my reading selections…
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For a random sampling of tasty tuneage, check out the link below…one of my many playlists:
http://www.playlist.com/playlist/5276991499
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sepultura 13- I can talk about books I guess. I read Octavia Butler’s Kindred, what a read. A very powerful, moving book.
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the blk people who post on this blog are a very eclectic group. With diverse interests.
I love it
🙂
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Just reading: Joseph D. Serio, Investigating the Russian Mafia. Bit old (90’s stuff mostly), nothing new for me really, but interesting still.
@sepultra13: history is one of my passions though I have to admit that engineering behind the siege machines is not my fileds of interest, other than as a side show.
Did you know that the huns were good at using these? Yeah, during Attilas time they were dangerous just because they could and did break the city walls, so nobody was safe nowhere if and when the hun army came to visit.
So, contrary the popular image, the hun army in Attilas time was actually pretty slow moving military machine which dragged along its siege machines. It was also multiethnic by its composition. Cavalry seems to remained mainly as ethnic huns, though there were goths also on horseback. But hunnic army had vandals, goths and all kinds of peoples in it. Interesting, isnt it? 😀
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Books. My fav is Pillars Of The Earth by Ken Follett. It’s a great read. Set in 11th century Euorpe, it’s about a man name Tom who’s dream is to build a cathedral. The book follows his journey. The rest of the plot is hard to explain because there are many twists and turns. He is homeless with a pregnant wife and 2 kids. The wife dies on the beginning after she give birth. Tom can’t care for the newborn so he lives him in the forest to die. A monk comes along and finds the baby, taking him back to his priory. Tom and his kids come to town looking for work. They find work at the priory of the monk who found the baby!
That’s a very simple synopsis of the beginning of the book, there are more twists and at least 3 different story lines that come together at the end. It’s a beautiful novel. It’s a thousand pages, more or less. I read it in about 5 days, it’s really that good! I’m reading the sequel, World Without End, when I finish reading my current novels. I need to finish reading Eat, Pray, Love(a so-so book) and Black Skins White Masks. When I’m done with those three I will read The Autobiography of Malcolm X
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Sorry for the typos
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@ y
That’s a fantastic book. I read it a few years ago and never wanted it to end.
I started a more recent one of his “snowbound” i think. About a virus, i got bored with it though. I don’t think he can top pillars.
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@Y- macolm X comes across as a bit of a mysongnist. I’m not sure if Macolm was really that way or if it was the way that Alex Haley saw Malcolm X. Malcolm didn’t get a chance to speak on it since he was killed before the book was published.
I think I read half of blk skins/wht masks in high school. IIRC, The literial translation from French made it a bit wordy and drawn out for my taste.
My fav is Pillars Of The Earth by Ken Follett
I think I may have this book at home. Someone I know has read this book but I can’t think who.
I read a little bit of everything except westerns.
I’m currently reading a few things:
1. lipstick jungle by candace bushnell
2. the subterrans by jack Kerouac
*wink wink*
3. monthly magazine haul.
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Y,
I love Pillars of the Earth! Granted, it’s not one of those serious, literary fiction novels, but it’s definitely on my list of fav books!
Oh, and Aliena and Jack! I ship them soo hard! <- ok, now I sound like a fangirl.
They adapted the book into a miniseries:
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1453159/
I wonder if it's any good. (Eddie Redmayne could make a good Jack, but Hayley Atwell is not pretty enough for Aliena, imo. The rest of the cast seems ok).
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@ Y:
The autobiography of Malcolm X is excellent. The Fanon book has some good parts but it can be tough reading at times.
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Oh, and since we’re at books, my favourites are:
Tolkien’s The Lord of the Rings, Toni Morrison’s Jazz and Ian McEwan’s Atonement.
… And a few more.
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abagond The Fanon book has some good parts but it can be tough reading at times
good to know it wasn’t just I.
The autobiography of Malcolm X is excellent
agreed, alex haley is a good story teller.
anyone reads any african fiction?
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mira, you’re a bad chick if you can get through tony morrison. that woman’s writing is fog thick.
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@chic:
Kindred was an excellent book! Have you read Octavia’s Xenogenesis series? I’m searching for Fledgling and Wild Seed; they look great and I haven’t read them yet.
Ah, The Subterraneans! EXCELLENT BOOK. ; D
@sam:
Yes, I’ve read about the Huns and their use of siege machinery; that’s one reason it took them so long to march wherever they went. And you’re correct about the multiethnic composition of Attila’s armies. I wonder, how many other people consider the fact that, back in those days, the only people who got a chance to mingle with those who weren’t their own countrymen were the explorers, the conquerers, and the scholars. Of those three groups, only one went abroad due to their curiosity; the other two were generally motivated by greed and/or politics. History has always fascinated me because, when it comes down to it, has there ever really been a competely factual telling of any historical event? When the events preceding September 11, 2001 are questionable, then who’s to say that the Battle of Bosworth Field is correctly recorded? Or the Battle of Little Big Horn?
@y:
Pillars of the Earth sounds like an excellent book; at least three people at work have recommended it. I’ll have to run down to my favorite used-book store so I can pick up the paperback for $3!
Currently reading:
Worldbinder by David Farland
The History of White People by Nell Irvin Painter
@Mira:
I adore the Lord of the Rings trilogy (and the prequel, There And Back Again) and read the books every few years or so.
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sep 13 Have you read Octavia’s Xenogenesis series?
no & I really should since I enjoyed kindred so much.
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Wow. I’m glad there are other Pillars lovers here!
I agree, the translation from the French makes Fanon a bit hard to read. I’ve had to reread paragraphs 2 or 3 times to fully understand. At any rate, the book is still very interesting.
I can’t wait to read Malcolm X!
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Y I’ve had to reread paragraphs 2 or 3 times to fully understand
Yes! this. I remember reading Fanon and thinking what is wrong with my brain until I learned that translation from French to English are usually like that.
I can only imagine how Tony Morrison’s books read when translated to French.
Y, have you ever read anything by Chimamnda Ngozi Adichie?
I love love love her stuff. I brought her last book new hot of th press.
here is a link for short story she wrote.
http://tobia.tumblr.com/post/1617557575
The endings to her stories always read unfinished thought. She leaves me wondering. BTW are you a Yoruba?
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Blk women you should know. Nigerian author Chimamanda Ngozi Adichie
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Anyone read any finnish litterature? Sofia Oksanen, estonian-finnish writer, has stirred some interest recently with her book The Purge. Should be available at bookstores in US too.
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Wow…never read the book but I did see the TV adaptation of “Pillars of the Earth” and was blown away!!! I see from the credits the director Ridley Scott had a lot of input into it. It was an excellent drama series which I throughly recommend seeing.
Malcom X autobiography was one of the first books I read which influenced me greatly along with “Black skins White Masks”.
Chimamanda Ngozi Adichie is a great author with a real, refreshing and inspiring incite. Even just listening to her you can pick this up.
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@sam:
I’ve been looking to read The Purge for a month or so – it looks interesting!
The Art of War by Sun Tzu is another great read.
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most men have no idea. the power of makeup
http://ykydaw.net/2010/12/06/episode-10245—beautiful-liar.aspx?ref=rss
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@chicnoir:
Speaking of the power of make-up. Behold! (Btw, the clip is in Chinese but you’ll get the gist of it.)
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leigh204 OMG
even the guys said :
WOW!
BOOM!
BOW!
i like the short haired lady’s hair cut.
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@sepultra13: really interesting history by David Rohl Legend, A Test of Time and From Eden to Exile. Did you know that word Adam means Red Man? Did you know that the actual geographical place of Paradise is known? 😀 Not the kind of history you normally bump into.
And to all of you: MERRY CHRISTMAS AND HAPPIER NEW YEAR! or since I am a self confessed pagan MERRY JOULU!! 😀
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To those reading this, I want to ask for your help. I have written about my situation in a post to Abagond under the contact section on Dec 18, currently the last post. Since this site is willing to openly discuss past FBI criminal activity when it opposed the civil rights movement and other movements, I am hoping to find people sympathetic with my case and willing to help. To put it briefly, the FBI has targeted me for poverty, homelessness, and assault. Through monitoring of my phone calls (when I had a phone) and email account, they have been able to either keep people who might help from receiving my messages or convince them not to help me. The FBI has the power to commit crimes (including assault) and keep them out of the news. I am hoping to find people willing to call media about the crimes and cover-up that is taking place. I will be celebrating Christmas in my car on Western Av in Brighton MA. I hope you will help.
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@ Bill
Why don’t you just email them?
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I have over 500 people and groups on my contact list and none of them are willing to help me in any way.
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I am currently writing in the Watertown library, a place where I am harrassed daily, and librarians have twice called police to have me escorted out.
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@ Bill
email the publications and media sources you wish to contact. Eliminate the middleman.
Just like you are typing out a message here, you can also do so on an email to the Boston Globe.
This link goes directly to the editor
letter@globe.com
good luck
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King, The Globe knew about this story before I was homeless back in 2007. I have contacted 6 reporters with the globe and not heard back from any of them. I gave Maria Cramer FBI complaints I filled out against the police (before I realized the FBI was involved) and heard nothing back from her or the FBI. They will never do this story because they would not admit their working with FBI in this way. Try sending me an email and I will send you the whole story. It will be an interesting read if you get it. I sent 2 emails to Abagond but I don’t know if he received them. I really need people like you to call. It is easy for media to give me the brush off, but if people start calling and ask about a cover-up, they might get nervous and feel uncomfortable lying about what they know and are not reporting.
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@ Chic Noir
Ever read any Octavia E Butler?
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@ Chic noir
She writes mostly sci-fi but it’s good sci-fi mixed with African Folklore
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*sigh*
my people my people
@student of the world- just Kindred I’ve meaning to read more of stuff.
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Anybody ever get tired of hearing white southerners claim that displaying the southern cross ‘stars & bars’ flag isn’t racist or a direct acceptance of slavery? Well, here’s a delightful clip that refutes the idiotic notion, once and for all! :smile
(I’m still trying to figure out the smilies/emoticons so bear with my inept flailings, LOL)
The Daily Show With Jon StewartMon – Thurs 11p / 10cThe South’s Secession Commemorationhttp://www.thedailyshow.comhttp://media.mtvnservices.com/mgid:cms:item:comedycentral.com:368116Daily Show Full EpisodesPolitical Humor & Satire BlogThe Daily Show on Facebook
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Nertz! I was trying to embed the video! Grumble grumble grumble…here’s the plain old link, then:
http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/thu-december-9-2010/the-south-s-secession-commemoration
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I love comics. Not really superheroes, but anything written by Alan Moore, whose Watchmen was chosen amongst 100 best books of the century by Time magazine. I also dig “100 bullets”, “Fables” and “Hellboy”. I’ve drawn a few comics myself, natch.
And yes, I read books too. More fact than fiction, mostly history. I’d recommend Heather Pringle’s “The Master Plan. Himmler’s scholars and the Holocaust”. Himmler actually thought that Thor’s hammer Mjöllnir was some kind of a REAL electromagnetic weapon created by ancient aryans and their überscience. Painfully sobering and yet perversely intoxicating read.
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@ Hannu L
Yes! Fables is my shit! And I read mostly non fiction
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@ Abagond
Have you read anything by Tony Judt?
I would love to see your take on “Ill Fares The Land”. Since you like Chomsky(I’m presuming?) I think you’ll find him interesting.
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Chic,
I have heard of her until now, but I will definitely look into her! Thanks 🙂
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hey Abagond ,
i seen this the other day and i think you would love it. its on you tube its called Negroe History Lost, Stolen, or strayed Part 1 of 5 with host bill Cosby . i was so moved and sadden because not much has changed and i don’t see black people coming together like that anymore. tell me what you think of it.
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@ Bill Anderson
Maybe WikiLeaks would be interested.
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Omigosh! X’mas is nearly upon us. Eek! I’m nervous. I’m making X’mas dinner! And I’m not much of a cook. lol! 😉
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@Y- I think you’ll enjoy her writing. she is such a talented story teller.
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Happy holidays to one and all…enjoy some beautiful music:
…and, here’s another one of my playlists:
http://www.mixpod.com/user/19744921
The only songs that I couldn’t find to add here were by the Moody Blues (one of my favorite bands) and a great remix of Chaos A.D. (Refuse / Resist) by Sepultura.
Time to start cooking! : )
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Are you a tightwad with the dollars? Looking for a cheap way to prepare X -mas dinner? This advice is for you, call it my gift to all the posters on here!:
A Cheapskates guide to preparing X-mas Dinner
Just throw the turkey in a pot and boil it, chuck some salt and pepper on it. Go to the local cafeteria at school or work and swipe salt and pepper packets on a daily basis or at least whenever you are there. You can go to the store and purchase aluminum disposable pans for cooking or boiling the turkey. Personally, I prefer boiling the turkey, it’s quicker!
If you can’t afford a real turkey, then get a prefabricated turkey roll and do the same thing..
Purchase some Kraft dinner, throw some onions and tomatoes in it, bring it to a boil and throw it in a plastic storage dish or the garbage, depending on how it comes out. Kraft dinner makes a wonderful side-dish!
Throw some carrots and potatoes in a pot(don’t forget to peel the potatoes!) Oh yeah, put some water in it to boil the vegetables!
Get some frozen corn(preferably no name, it’s cheaper).
If you can’t afford real potatoes get some fake ones, again, preferably no name.
Mix the potatoes with lard if you don’t want to purchase butter, margarine or yogurt. Powdered milk works wonders!
Always check out the rotted vegetable section in the grocery store(usually referred to as the ‘sale’ section in the vegetable aisle). You can always cut out the rotted parts, besides which, being cheap, you can purchase tons of them.
If you come across any road kill during your meanderings, use the parts that aren’t to badly rotted. Who knows, if the carcass is big enough, you may be able to use the skin to make coats, footwear and …handbags! Besides, this is environmentally sound for all you tree buggers, I mean huggers, out there. I have heard that rat and mouse meat tastes suspiciously like chicken.
For dessert, you can go to the ‘day old’ bread(probably ten days old!) and purchase moldy, stale bread to make bread pudding. You can employ this method with doughnuts too! Maybe you can pass the moldy bits off as raisins!
Cake? Get some no name cake mix at the grocery store. Mix it, throw it in a pan and bake it for an hour or so. Hopefully, it will come out okay if it doesn’t burn!. Hey, the burnt parts oftentimes are the best part of the cake!
Buy some rotted fruit, again at the sales table, cut off the rotted part, wash the cut up pieces and throw it over the cake. If you are not that health conscious, buy some no name icing and spread it over the cake.
Purchase paper plates and plastic cutlery at a dollar store, after all, who wants to wash dishes after.
Finally, if you and your guest can stomach the above culinary delights without the aid of Maalox and ex-lax, you’ve got a hardier constitution than I do! If your guest(s) complain as to the quality of the meal, tell, or scream this at them; “You knew I am a cheapskate so why the he** did you accept my invitation to Christmas dinner a**holes? This is where the apparent wisdom of using paper plates comes in also. If your guest throws one at you, the worst injury you will sustain is a paper cut. Since there is nothing open, good luck trying to get something else to eat! Give them a bottle of Pepto Bismol or Maalox and send them on their way! They will be pi**ed off, but glad to be gone!
Merry X-mas, or conversely, Bah humbug, whatever your mode of celebration! Bon appetit!!! And a partridge in a pear tree, la de da!
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I use this opportunity to wish Merry Christmas to all who are celebrating it today. 🙂
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Merry Christmas Mira!
And Merry Christmas everyone! 😀
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It’s not Christmas for me today, but thank you!
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Merry Christmas Leigh! And to all 🙂
I believe that Mira must wait until January 7th! By then, I will have run out of eggnog.
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Indeed, January 7th it is! Today was just a random working day for me. Hope you all are having a great time with your family. 🙂
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I’ve written much here about mixed race issues, but here are some additional thoughts on how to get beyond some of the difficulties that afflict some in the multiracial community.
First, it needs to be recognized that mixed race people’s identity is never going to be accepted by everyone no matter what they identify as. Someone of Wesley Snipes’ phenotype and background would be considered racially “black” under any concievable social system and a person of Dolph Lundgren’s appearance is considered “white” everywhere, but those who are very much in-between these extremes lack such certainty.
Second, we need to also realize that although “race” is in one sense a “social construction” it is also a natural fact. Obama is considered black by many in the US, but that does not change the fact that he REALLY is half African and half European. Just because somoneone refuses to aknowledge that you’re mixed does not negate the reality that a substantial amount of your ancestry derives from more than one continental grouping.
Third, although it is acceptable for someone to disagree with another’s choice of an identity, it’s not alright to accuse another person of being fraudulent or socially illegitimate for identifying as they do. That’s why there needs to be a campaign to discredit and stigmatize those who propagate notions of racial “passing”, which I’ve argued on previous occasions is in large part a conscious strategy to socially marginalize European-looking individuals of African descent.
Fourth, it needs to be recognized that the militants who advance notions of “passing” and other forms of racism against mixed race people are a tiny proportion of any given population. Most whites, blacks, Asians, etc, are of good will and do not project deep-seated insecurities or take their aggression out on multiracials.
Fifth, we must recognize that mixed race people constitute an organic part of the social fabric and have as much right to participate in civic life as anyone else. Just because they don’t have their own census box (yet) does not make them open game for political and social exploitation.
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Um, no, race is not a biological fact.
But I do agree, mixed people should not be discriminated against.
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Merry christmas to all, even though in Finland the big day was yestearday. Our christmas dinner consists traditionally a ten pound ham, sweet peas, sweet red gabbage, pickel, mashed potatoes, carrott mash, carelian pies, some salmon and other fish, ginger bread, cookies, chocolate and so on. And yes, I am stuffed 😀
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FG, the thing with Obama is he looks blk.
Obama good friend and former mentor, Rev. Wright has lighter skinned, thinner nose, and str8er hair than Obama has. As you outlined above, much of racial catergorization has to do with what you look like.
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Our christmas dinner consists traditionally a ten pound ham, sweet peas, sweet red gabbage, pickel, mashed potatoes, carrott mash,
That reads like a recipe for excess gas. I hope you go out in the snow when the after affects hit!
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Merry Christmas (and winter solsctice) to all of you wonderful people I have had the privilege to exchange opinions and world views with.
Monday morning I’m heading to UK to meet a woman from Zimbabwe to see if we’re able to find love that binds us for the rest of our lives. If not, the search continues.
I honestly wish all of you here understand and love of the variety and wonder of the wide spectrum of the human genome.
We are all different but we are also the SAME. We have the same dreams, aspirations, goals and possibilities given by our common, sapien genes.
But please, PLEASE, see people as individuals. Do not label anyone by physical or societal characteristics.
We are all individuals who want to belong to the great family of humanity. We are nothing alone. We are only “complete” with interaction of other human beings.
Peace, love, unity, love and HAVING FUN! Lol!
My full name is Hannu Lipponen, if u want to FB me. I hope some of you do. One never has too many friends.
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@ Chic Noir
That picture just made me crack up. I’ve seen him on television but he has that Dashiki on in that picture that says Africa LOL
I’m from Chicago. My mother grew up in Altgeld Gardens and I know our family has alot of Native American, in a way that’s physically obvious. Altgeld is an all black neighborhood, and people can always tell our family just by our hair. It’s weird. Alot of black people from the midwest do but they don’t consider themselves “mixed”(whatever that means).
We’re the only “black” people in the neighborhood who have long curlwavyish hair. My mom calls it “cooly hair” even my Uncles, when one of them died, women came to his funeral that didn’t even know himjust to look at how handsome he was. He was dark skinned and had long wavy hair. And our skin is like reddish-brown-to red-orange or it’s just light.
You never know what the kid will look like when it’s born in our family. It’s the funniest thing.
One of my aunts is extremely light skinned(she tans) and she has bright- red hair. When she was growing up in the 70’s she would try to wear Afros( it didn’t work with her hair, her hair is very thin and it’s strait!) and dashikis to fit in.
It just looked so off.
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@ Mira
I agree with you there, because my sister works in genetics/pathology. She has lupus, and all of her donor matches for organs are Asian people(she’s black).
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I have to credit Abagond for opening up the topic of the beauty of black women’s eyes. I never quite realized that until I read his post about it and now when I look, I see it everywhere. I really have become a fan of black women’s eyes:
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I wish everybody a happy and first of all peaceful new year!
Respect to Abagond for a well-written and thought-provoking blog.
Bonne année
Femi
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Bonjour Femi!
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@Olufemi and Herneith:
Happy New Year to you! And a Happy New Year to everyone!
May 2011 be a very prosperous year for you all! 😀
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May everyone do and receive what they’ve hoped for in the next year, and may everyone be blessed with the gifts necessary to live and prosper in this world. It’s a tough place, but with love, courage, strength, and open-mindedness, we can all make it through! Best wishes to everyone for all of 2011, not just the New Year!
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HAPPY NEW YEARS, HAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!
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Happy New Year! It’s half past 3 here… Are you guys still in 2010?
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We (eastern America) still have two hours to go.
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I like these weird situations (like being in a different year and decade than some other commenters). 😀
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Happy New Year from Texas!
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Merry and Happy New Year to all of ya from Finland!!!
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Continuing from above …
6. It should also be noted that the chosen identity of those of mixed heritage is inevitably going to be highly variable. It seems reasonable to assume that people select a racial/ethnic identity that best summarizes their social experiences and describes their affective relationships or position within a community. For someone born to two parents who are both 100% African or 100% European, a “black” and “white” identity, respectively, are practically inevitable. However, identity selection gets fuzzy for those who are subtantially mixed. A multiracial person’s self-identity is likely to be a complex function of numerous variables, including physical appearance, cultural upbrining, attitudes about race and ethnicity of people in one’s community and family, as well as the racial composition of one’s peer group while growing up. Mixed people differ substantially on these variables. For instance, in terms of appearance, some resemble light skinned African Americans, others Mediterraneans, and a few Nordic blondes. With respect to childbhood experiences, some are raised in black neighborhoods others in predominantly white ones. Since mixed people differ so much on variables critical to social position, there is no single correct identity for all of them. That’s why there should be no rigid societal expectations about their choice of identity, such as the One Drop Rule. Furthermore, those who criticize the appropriateness of a particular choice of identity should keep in mind that they do know all of that individual’s life circumstances that impinge on social position and relationships.
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Happy Belated New Year to one and all… 😎
There was a sad story on the news during my week-long holiday and I just wanted to post it here since it isn’t really a suggestion.
I live in the Pacific Northwest, which is one of the whitest areas of the USA. In June of 2010, a little boy vanished from his school and hasn’t been seen since. The local news stations have been tireless and relentless in making sure that everybody on the West Coast is aware of this missing boy, even though the actions of his immediate family members makes it all too likely that one or more of them are directly responsible for his disappearance. The boy is white and was 7 yo at the time.
On New Year’s Eve, a story was briefly flashed on a local news station about a teenage girl who has been missing since the day before Thanksgiving. A brief follow-up story was aired about her on New Year’s Day, but that’s been it…nothing else. The girl is black and 15 yo.
It’s things like this that cause me great sadness and rage at the same time. Why does one person’s child get gold treatment, while another’s is merely an afterthought? If all missing children got the Kyron Horman treatment (billboards, daily news developments, donated time and money, search volunteers, etc.) then it could be a small step towards equality. Sadly, the only people who get justice are those who can afford it…
😦
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HAPPY NEW YEAR TO EVERYONE READING OR WRITING ON THIS BLOG!!!!
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Does anyone have a job for this man? Spread the word…
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@ femi
Looks like he may come to my town!!
http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/blog/ball_dont_lie/post/Cavs-to-give-internet-famous-Golden-Voice-a-jo?urn=nba-303807
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He cleans up pretty well.
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why do men find it upsetting when women forget or mispronouce their names? I find this happens on the internet and in real life?
I want a real answer for this question please.
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Maybe the dumb broad is too busy gazing adoringly at the jacka**. She becomes tongue tied and forgets his name and how to say it, at least they do in the bodice ripper books. In real life, the woman cannot give a sh*t unless she is interested in the man or his pay cheque. Then you will see how fast she’ll know his name and how to pronounce it.
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In real life, the woman cannot give a sh*t unless she is interested in the man or his pay cheque. Then you will see how fast she’ll know his name and how to pronounce it.
herneith you made me giggle.
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Jourdan Dunn, one of the top blk models in the bussiness has a new ad for YSL makeup.
http://chicnoirhouse.blogspot.com/2011/01/jourdan-dunn.html
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Sam, or anyone else who can answer:
I know Atilla the Hun was, well, from Asia. At least I think I’m pretty sure of it. Well, do the Huns look like Central/East Asian people? I wonder because I sometimes see white people with squinty eyes. Not a lot, but a few people. Could the Huns have then mixed and assimilated into the local population or did the Huns somehow die in isolation?
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Those Huns must have got busy in Africa too.
Every race has some people in almond shaped eyes. Like you said, not a lot, but a always a few people.
However, you do find more Whites with almond shaped eyes in Russia, who are mixed with native Siberians who share lineage to our native Americans.
http://news.softpedia.com/news/The-First-Siberian-Language-Connected-to-Native-American-Languages-81790.shtml
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calculator wonder because I sometimes see white people with squinty eyes.
a bit off topic but you can find Europeans who look like this in Scandinavia. Google the Sammie people. Renee Zellweager has this look at her parents IIRC are from Finland.
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some real funny ish right here
A pretty white girl will be tried as a black man
just watch you will just die of laughter
http://www.theonion.com/articles/judge-rules-white-girl-will-be-tried-as-black-adul,18896/
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“Um, no, race is not a biological fact.”
You’re right that humans are not divided into sub-species. However, there are”races” in the sense of ideal typical phenotypes associated with each of the world’s major regions or continents. This is the popular understanding of race.
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“That picture just made me crack up. I’ve seen him on television but he has that Dashiki on in that picture that says Africa LOL
I’m from Chicago. My mother grew up in Altgeld Gardens and I know our family has alot of Native American, in a way that’s physically obvious. Altgeld is an all black neighborhood, and people can always tell our family just by our hair. It’s weird. Alot of black people from the midwest do but they don’t consider themselves “mixed”(whatever that means).
We’re the only “black” people in the neighborhood who have long curlwavyish hair. My mom calls it “cooly hair” even my Uncles, when one of them died, women came to his funeral that didn’t even know himjust to look at how handsome he was. He was dark skinned and had long wavy hair. And our skin is like reddish-brown-to red-orange or it’s just light.
You never know what the kid will look like when it’s born in our family. It’s the funniest thing.
One of my aunts is extremely light skinned(she tans) and she has bright- red hair. When she was growing up in the 70′s she would try to wear Afros( it didn’t work with her hair, her hair is very thin and it’s strait!) and dashikis to fit in.
It just looked so off.”
Once again, why is mixed in quotation marks? It seems to me that claiming (disingenuously) mixed people don’t exist is just a tactic some use to deny them a legitimate social space, making it all the easier to push them into the margins of society. “Mixed” means having significant ancestry from multiple continental groupings. Your family sounds like it has mixture in it. It’s cool that they decided to identify as black (probably because they are predominantly black), but that does not mean that all mixed people need to follow suit.
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There are people with somewhat “almond” shaped eyes in Eastern Europe (I know I’m one of them). Usually, people don’t like to talk about it here. (Mostly because we all know how we got them, and we don’t like to talk about it).
FG,
There might be ideal physical phenotypes associated with each world region (MIGHT is a key word here; typical Scandinavians look different than typical Greeks, and they’re both white, for example), but it still doesn’t make race any more a biological fact.
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“One of my aunts is extremely light skinned(she tans) and she has bright- red hair. When she was growing up in the 70′s she would try to wear Afros( it didn’t work with her hair, her hair is very thin and it’s strait!) and dashikis to fit in.”
Yes, it’s kind of interesting how there is an intense obsession and repugnance with light mulattoes trying to “pass as white” (i.e. embracing their European heritage) but mulattoes putting vinegar in their hair to give themselves fake “afros” is viewed humorously or as a sign of “unity.”
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FG
light skinned blk does not always equal biracials
mulatto is offensive to some biracial people
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“light skinned blk does not always equal biracials”
Red hair and “extremely light” skin are almost certainly reflective of European admixture.
“mulatto is offensive to some biracial people”
Maybe to some. Others really like the term. It’s part of the standard vocabulary for Afro-European mixed people in Latin America. I know one droppists consider it offensive because it’s a highly specific and assertive ID (unlike biracial). It makes them kind of nervous.
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FG Red hair and “extremely light” skin are almost certainly reflective of European admixture.
you can have European admixutre and not be biracial. like your grandmother or great-grandmother is/was Irish.
also red hair and light skin is common among some groups of African people as a form of albinoism expression.
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Well you don’t need a full-white parent to be mixed/biracial/multiracial. The vast majority of mixed people on the planet have two mixed parents, not parents of different “races.”
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What is an “ideal typical phenotype”? There are tens if not hundreds in at least Africa, Europe and Asia.
I find the unworldly and selective perception of certain people somewhere between amusing and irritating. But well, who the cap fit, let them wear it.
It wouldn’t be the first (and the last) time that the majority believe they are right.
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FG to be biracal you do need one fully white parent or at least as to how we note biracial here in America. bi=2 btw.
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There is no such thing as race. There is only one species: Homo sapiens.
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@chic noir,
Well this is just a semantic argument. Politics of course plays a role. I want a larger mixed-identified population so of course I’ll make the definition more liberal than others would.
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“Bonjour Femi!”
Femi is French! Wow. That’s a shocker.
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sepultura 13:
Is your Avatar a Gundam? I can’ t tell. Which series is it from?
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http://www.theonion.com/articles/judge-rules-white-girl-will-be-tried-as-black-adul,18896/
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I saw that earlier today! It is amazing how everyone was able to keep a straight face.
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I love the one about the Sony television!
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http://www.theonion.com/video/new-google-phone-service-whispers-targeted-ads-dir,17470/
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@calculator; the huns were not a race of men in any sense. The core group seems to have been some nomads from central Asia, present day Uzbekistan, Tadzikistan, Kazakhstan and western China region. No one really knows where from.
By the time they showed up on the door step of Eastern Rome, they had assimilated other people too, such as goths etc. So the huns we know were more of a hodge podge of people than certain race. We do not know even what Attila looked like since there is only one coin image of him from the times. He does not look like “asian” in that but we do not know.
Present day hungarians are pretty certain that huns were their ancestors and they are proud of that too. Could be. But the hungarians are also finno-ugric people and related to us finns trough the language. Go figure…
Which brings me to the slant eyed white europeans. Here I think we can have some real fun. The swedish and german racists (race biologists) were certain that we finns were mongols only some hundred years ago. Well, we are not. The sami people, the real lapplanders, have high cheeck bones ja a bit narrower eyes but then again, not all the sami families. Some look like the guys I met in Dakota way back in 1980’s.
Some russians have this feature in their faces as does some other east europeans. These people and nations don’t have anything common. So could it be, that the slant eyes in Europe are not a racial phenomena but just a feature like a long nose or huge square jaw? Which brings me to another thing about face features; you do know that too much of growth hormone changes the faces of athletes? Some of them seem to have pretty long noses, heavy eye corners, wide ja strong jaws etc. Is that racial thing or what?
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@ sam and calculator:
I actually wrote about the racial depiction of Attila a little while back if you are interested.
http://eurasian-sensation.blogspot.com/2010/12/whitewashing-attila-hun.html
Based on history, geography and the descriptions of him, he sounds a bit like a Kazakh or Uighur in terms of appearance.
There has been so much population movement from Central Asia into Eastern Europe over the years that I would guess the eye shape you mention is a legacy of that.
Ever had a good look at the late actor Charles Bronson? he is of Lithuanian and Tatar ancestry. Clear Central Asian features.
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@eurasian sensation: interesting. I thoughed that he and the original huns came from that region and looked a bit like those folks over there. I’m also pretty sure that when they moved west they took locals as wives and surrogate kids etc. so the appearence was a bit different in few generations.
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Huns were central Asian people. We are unsure how they looked, but they were not “white” in today’s sense of the word. (Even if we apply European and not American criteria, which includes more people as white).
There are some indications they’ve had eyes with epicanthic fold. Same goes for Avars. Not to mention other Asian peoples were in some parts of Europe later on (during the Ottoman rule). The slightly “almond” (hate this word, but hope it explains what I’m saying) eyes some Eastern Europeans (and Northern Europeans?) have is due to these people’s genes, I believe.
Now. It’s something people don’t like to talk about (at least Eastern Europeans). For VERY clear reasons. But ignoring something doesn’t make it go away.
I know my eyes are like this. They looked completely Asian (or close to it) when I was a baby, but it happens to many non-Asian babies. But they are still a bit “almond” shaped. Maybe I could share some baby/child photos of myself?
PS- Eurasian Sensation: I like your article (and will comment). All I want to say here is: Didn’t Gerard Butler also play Attila the Hun? I’ve noticed that “ethnic white” actors are often cast in roles of people that are considered “ethnic white” (and it’s obviously how they see Attila), regardless of the actual ethnicity. That’s how you have an Irish actor playing an ancient Macedonian, for example. (All ethnic whites are the same? lol)
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@mira; well, movies are movies and after all, Yeshua the Jew has been played by almost anyone in this planet. Seldomly by a jewish actor, though. I think one of the funniest versions of Yeshua has to be great swedish actor Max von Sydow with his baby blue eyes… Brilliant! 😀
Yes, Gerard Butler played Attila and a scottish guy palyed his brother Blöda, which is als very funny. But then again, Powers Booth was vandal who was the last roman general.
I always thoughed that avars were a turkish nation, more of a kind like present day turks. I did think they were “asian” as with mongols etc.
Finns have no genetic connection with mongols, at least the most resent DNA and gene tests say so. If I remember correctly we were genetically closer to the frisians and northern italians than swedes, russians or estonians, which again make one wonder; who the hell are we and where the hell we came from and when??? 😀
Maybe we were, like some researchers belive, the northern branch of the vandals.
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@ Sam:
As you know, Finnish is a Uralic language, a language family that appears to have its root in Siberia. Those original Uralic speakers were probably European-looking but with a significant East Asian component, much like so many Siberian people today.
Moving westwards, either one of two things (or both) would have happened. Possibly the ancestral Finns would have mixed with locals and become more European. Or possibly a small incoming Finnish-speaking elite would have spread their language to local Europeans without making a huge genetic imprint.
(The second instance is largely what appears to have happened in Hungary. The modern Hungarians are hard to separate from the surrounding Europeans, which seems to imply that the Magyars made a strong cultural and linguistic impression but only a small genetic one.)
That said, Finns are still have genetic elements that put them slightly separate from other Europeans.
Here’s an article about Finn genetics in relation to the rest of Europe.
http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/2008/10/finns-as-european-outliers/
The Saami appear to have retained a bit more of their Eastern roots, perhaps due to them migrating into the northern regions where there were less people already existing.
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Sam,
Yes, it’s interesting to note: Jewish actors rarely play Jesus. I wonder if it’s because they don’t want to, or (presumably) Christian directors don’t want to cast them?
Avars were another central Asian people who pay their visit to Europe during the Migration period (early Middle ages). We can’t be sure of how they’ve looked, but they were not white in today’s sense of the word.
About Finns: what about other Asian peoples, and not Mongols? I understand this is a touchy subject, and whenever these DNA results are published, people start acting really weird. It’s just a touchy subject. The most vocal group, though, are Balkan peoples. Balkan peoples are all mixed, incredibly mixed, and yet, each and every one of them want to claim indigenous origin (while, in fact, the differences are only in percentages). They are all a mix of all peoples that ever lived in the area, and many people lived there. Serbs are, for example, 15% Celtic, which is relatively high amount, given the fact nobody claim Celts (they are not interesting for inter-ethnic Balkan conflicts and discussion).
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So where is the Beautiful Black Man Post?
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Didn’t the Slavs migrate to Europe from Asia? I always keep reading that. If so, then why don’t they look Asian?
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Here’s something interesting:
All of today’s blue-eyed people are descendents from a man in northern Europe who developed that mutation for eye color 10,000 years ago.
What’s really intersting is that it all started with just ONE person. Plus, the gene is also recessive, which meant that there was a high sexual selection for blue-eyed people.
@Y
If you scroll up you will see “New Stuff” with abagond’s recent writings. Go down the list and you’ll find it.
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@calculator; well, I read somewhere that most present day researchers assume that blue eyes/blonde hair is just a variation on human genome, nothing more than that. I have never seen a shred of evidence of this mutant stuff, as funny as that would be.
@mira: for me personally DNA or genetics are all the same and thus I find these so funny. I guess the racial biologists of hundred years ago left their mark on collective minds and everyone is busy trying to be the Original Man of their lands. Thruth is, there never was such creature.
Just to point out how easy it is to move around even by foot (and therefore migrate to anywhere), friend of mine ja me were hiking in Lapland when we were just kids (16yrs). My backpack was some 27 kg and his was slightly heavier. We did some 15 to 20kms a day out in the wild. And mind you, both of us were city kids. So I figure people used to a nomadic life could have easily walked some 40 kms a day, 20 with no problem what so ever. In ten days at least 200km, three months plus 2000km. That is how easy it is to migrate anywhere.
And by boat it is even easier. Estonian guys used to row across the Gulf of Finland on tiny rubberboats back in the Soviet times and some finns still row across it today. It is a days trip back and forth. A good experienced rower can do 50 kms a day no problem in the lake district and crew of six even longer, so the idea that migrations were somehow expetional events or huge undertakings is false. Even during the so called stone age. Thus, ethnic mixing was done easily and earlier than we think, I belive.
@eurasian: there has been a lot of debate who we are up here and now, with EU and all that, the western identity has been promoted ever so slightly :-D. Truth is that culturally we belong more to the east, no doubt of that. Our language and thinking (and drinking) are eastern in many sense and our music differs from the western. We try to act like westerners but in reality we are siberians. Not slavs but siberians, you know. The woods, lakes, rivers, stillness, all these are important to us. Loneliness is natural, it is ok not to say anything among friends etc. All the traits of siberians :-D.
I read somewhere that the Russian people today, the ones living in the heart land of Russia, are mix of southern slavs migrating those parts in 6th-9th century and the local fenno-ugric people. The mari are still there but many others are gone and presumambly mixed with the slavs to form this russian nation. You know anything more about that? I also read in one website that Ruriks present day relatives DNA show finnish traits??? Carelian?? 😀
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@Sam and Calculator.
“…I have never seen a shred of evidence of this mutant stuff…
Well. You both may be interested in this news report from the Washington Post (2005) where scientists proved just that!
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/12/15/AR2005121501728.html
I have posted this here before in another comment.
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@kwamla; thanks! I feel sorry for that guy. Think about that: not only you are the only blonde blue eyed creep around but you are also the first of your kind ever in the world. I bet that guy could tell us something about racism and prejudice against doffrent skin color 😀
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Ok, here’s my photo:
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@ Calculator:
Regarding Slavs:
I don’t think that’s strictly true about Slavs being Asian in origin. However…
Eastern Europe, where the Slavs live, is on the Western end of the great Eurasian steppe. As such, it has seen numerous incursions of people from Central Asia. The Avars, Bulgars, Turks and Magyars are all examples of this. They have added to the cultural and genetic mix of the Slavs, but the Slavs themselves are not Central Asian.
Of course, the Indo-European languages (of which Slavic is a branch) do originate from what is now southern Russia and Kazakhstan. So virtually all Europeans do have that ancient element, but it is more cultural and linguistic than genetic.
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@Mira:
Aww, you looked so cute as a kid. If I recall from visiting your blog, you are quite the lovely lady. 😀
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@mira: cute!
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Slavs are not Asian in origin (as far as we know). They originated in the Eastern Europe, far East of the Europe, near the border with Asia. But still Europe. Now, the borders of European continent (or any other, for that matter) are completely arbitrary, however, the way Europe is defined, Slavs definitely (as far as we can tell) originated in Europe (today’s Ukraine and Belarus… Probably).
They are described as being blonde to red haired, and blue eyed. It’s how Slavs that didn’t mix with other populations look. However, many of Slavs did mix, during the centuries. There were many, many (many, many) people who visited them, or they visited many different areas and settled down, so there’s a heavy mixing, especially with some Slavic groups. They’ve mixed with natives (which were already a mix of Illyrians, the Romans and the Celts), the Huns, the Avars, the Bulgarians, the Huns, the Germans (just to name a few on the Balkans)… And it’s only in early Middle Ages. Not to mention what had happened later, after the Ottoman invasion (again, on the Balkans).
But for all we know, Slavs did originate in Europe (and, I can’t stress this enough: Eastern Europe is Europe, and not any less Europe than Western Europe!!!! <- sorry, personal frustration). Now, if they mixed, originally, with some Asian peoples (those with eyes with epichantic fold), I have no idea. "Asian eyes" were not a significant race marker (since races in today's sense of the word didn't exist), so you can't expect writers to pay particular attention to this detail. I've always assumed, though, that the "slightly almond" eyes were due to mixing, not the original Slavic characteristics. (Hitler might have thought otherwise).
leigh204 and sam:
Thanks for the compliment! I posted the photo because of the eyes, though I'm not sure if it's a good one to judge that.
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Ok, my last comment came as disrespectful. I am not trying to argue it would be bad for (original) Slavs to have Asian blood, or that having Asian genes is a bad thing. But still (genes or not), Slavs, and Eastern Europeans in general, are Europeans. Contrary to what West might think, Europe doesn’t = Western Europe. That’s all I wanted to point out. Having Asian (to call them that) genes, or having African genes doesn’t make you any less European, so claiming only Western (and Northern) Europe is “real” Europe, while Eastern and/or Southern isn’t, is something that, well, pisses off Eastern and Southern Europeans.
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Đoković is in the Australian Open final! I had no idea… I only found out five minutes ago.
Sorry. I just needed to share this.
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@mira: I hear you. We up here North were left out originally of the European map of EU 😀 generally speaking, sometimes it seems that people forget that Europe reaches to the Ural mountains geographically.
You know anthing about this alledged mix of russians with finno-ugric peoples in present day Russia? I know that they came up from present day Ukraine around abouts there according some.
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<font color=”blue”>This is coloured!</font>
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In practice:
This is coloured!
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<font color=”red”>….</font>
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Ok, it isn’t. Crap. Try putting a font code instead of a word. For example, #c0c0c0.
Let me try:
Is it working?
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this should be red
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Ok, not working. I guess it’s because font tag is deprecated and shouldn’t be used anymore. One must specify font colour in CSS, and I guess Abagon’s CSS is preventing us from changing font colour.
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this should be red too
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So why is working for you but not for me???
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Mira:
When I cut and pasted the HTML code, it did not work. But when I typed it for myself, it did. The trouble was with the quotes, which got quoted – or something.
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Ok, let me try:
Is it working?
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Has anyone ever heard of a movie called AfroPunk: The Movie. It’s about the race identity within the punk scene across America and abroad. The film focuses on the lives of four people dedicated to the punk rock lifestyle, interspersed with interviews from scores of black punk rockers from all over the United States. The interviews cover issues of loneliness, exile, interracial dating, black power, and the dual lives led by people of color in communities that are primarily white. This is why I dislike the so-called unity thing. Note that they never play this movie of BET or other so called black enertainment. Why do some bp feel like every single other bp should have the same culture, looks and beliefs.I don’t find” Black” culture appearing to me and don’t see why the hell I have go out my way to prove I’m black. Hip-hop is okay, I find R&B horrible. It’s country or close to it. I’m an atheist along the lines of Satanism (the one by Anton Levay) Soul food is meh and would eat chinese over it anyday. I find daishikis to be ugly. I mean, I’ve seen alot of beautiful African clothing, but why only daishikis? They look like a cross between a pokemon seizure and circus tent. Guntiinos kick way more a**. I have friends that love that but I just don’t see the point. The blackness concept needs to go. More Black goths.
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Usagi,
Here’s the thing. No matter what kind of music you (general you) like, no matter how you dress or behave, white people will still see you as black, and not as “one of their own”. (Nor would blacks see wiggers as one of their own, as far as I know- correct me if I’m wrong) Cultural items of this sorts are not what make people black or white. On the other hand, music taste and interests often play a significant role in making new friends, so if a person is into metal or grunge, chances are she will have more white friends. But it still doesn’t make anyone any less black.
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On the other hand, I believe people should not be forced to like the same stuff “their” people like. Anybody should be free to make whatever choice in music, movies, books, clothing, food, etc. he or she likes, as long as it’s not disrespectful (like some whites often do- appropriating Native American items, for example).
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@mira; it does not go like that in all subcultures. Nobody, I mean nobody does not call Frisco Bay area Dragons as bikers. Wheels of Soul, Redding Outsiders I think are also black. There are some mixed biker clubs too. Ok, they are recognized as black clubs but those guys are bikers first and foremost. Never mind what you read on the papers about bikers and racism. Oakland HA’s have respect to Dragons who’ve been around since late 50’s I guess.
I think usagi was not saying that he should be colorless or pretend not be what he/she is but said that not all blacks should be forced to the same mode. Because that is also racist.
I think we touched the black C&W guys before. Next are the black heavy metal bands and fans. Any pictures or names??
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I beg the differ, Mira. I have been told many times by other bp that I’m not really black. They were dead serious. No, I know wp are the same way. To me, it seems to be an American thing. Alot of foriegners don’t have a big problem with it.I have no problem with my nationality, but I had to argue with poeple about it. Alot of other bp don’t see as their own. I think it’s retared. The funny thing is that I’m not fair at all.
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This guy is the reason why asked about the black metal bands etc. He is the Great Grand Father of all the heavy rock and still kicks A like no one else. Who said that black guys don’t rock??
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Thanx u. Love Jimi. Other bp and so called anti-racists think that I’m hinding for who I am bs. These would be the same people saying that they’re pretty becasue they’re light skinned. Yes, I had a person tell me both of these things. Have u noticed that when a white person likes or admires another culture it’s means that they’re open and intellgent, but God forgid a bp does the same. I also, get weird looks because of my natural very dark lips. I had people tell me that I should stop dyeing my hair and became natural. I never dye my hair and hair wasn’t ever relaxed at the time. I’m a 3b/c, I forgot. Brunettes are awesome.
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@Mira,
I think Usagi makes an important point. I believe that much social differentiation these days is based on cultural dissimilarity. Shared cultural attributes can lead to a reduction in perceived racial difference.
In general, take statements about American race relations featured on this blog with a grain of salt. Much has changed in the US with regard to race since the Civil Rights Movement, but the agenda here seems to push a very old-school, early to mid-20th century vision of race relations. Skin color and “blackness” are still very important to determining one’s social position, but it’s not the end-all and be-all that it was just a few decades ago. Identities are becoming more fluid and ambiguous. As I’ve been arguing all along, US racialism isn’t as binary as it once was. There are now many Americans who are clearly neither white nor black (e.g. most Hispanics, Asians). Moreover, the younger generations no longer by and large adhere to a strict one drop rule concept and there is an acceptance of mixed race identity. Furthermore, as Usagi suggests, cultural attributes and socioeconomic status have begun to compete with “race” as the primary source of identity.
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Usagi,
I beg the differ, Mira. I have been told many times by other bp that I’m not really black. They were dead serious.
I wasn’t talking about black people. I do not know their views on this. But sadly, the white majority is who makes these racial rules- they are the ones who started this all race thing, and their opinion is still what matters the most. And I am afraid they would not accept somebody who is into GN’R as one of their own. And if black people don’t want to accept said person as one of their own, I admit, it could be a very tricky situation to be in. (And yes, I agree it’s not fair- and it’s one of the main reasons I am not crazy about collective identities).
No, I know wp are the same way. To me, it seems to be an American thing. Alot of foriegners don’t have a big problem with it.I have no problem with my nationality, but I had to argue with poeple about it.
Well, I can’t speak for other foreigners, but I must say I don’t see rock (metal, etc) as a “white thing” at all. It just never occurred to me it could be considered white music, with so many non-white rock musicians around, so many non-white fans (yes, I know plenty- well, I know them online, but whatever), etc. I mean, the origins of rock are black. The person who is considered the best rock guitarist of all times is black. (thanks for the video, sam) So no, I don’t see it as white music, and I know plenty of non-white (and black) rockers.
Which brings us, once again, to the long-awaited black (POC) rock musicians post.
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True, notice that they’ll show a white rapper or Teana whathername on BET before a black musican that plays rock. .For some reason, people assumed that i would now who she is becuase she’s white. Hell, I DON’T like any R&B music. If I don’t listen jill Scott or whatever, why would listen to someone who sings the same crap of a different color? I do idenfy with my East african roots and some of my native american. Mainly Somail culture is really cool and was really the first time I’ve seen blacks that look like me.
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Alos, with white people, it tends to be 50/50. Mostly though as a foriegner.
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“I think usagi was not saying that he should be colorless or pretend not be what he/she is but said that not all blacks should be forced to the same mode. Because that is also racist.”
This is an area of interest for me and something I wish could be talked about more openly.
There seems to be this weird thing going on where many blacks will promote this kind of rigid conformity among themselves. The whole “not black enough” thing. Yet at the same time, it’s racist to carry any belief that “blacks do this or that” if you’re not black.
So at the same time you see rigid conformity to a certain idea of blackness within the black community, if you’re an outsider, to notice this blazingly obvious conformity is racist. It is racist, because it perpetuates the idea of black people as different or separate from whites, which on a fundamental level is of course not true. On a cultural level however, it most certainly is true, if in no other way than in our differing relationships with racism and society at large. (although I suspect there is much more to it than that)
Maybe it has something to do with the fact that it was whites who forced this idea of “blackness” on BP in the first place. Or at least, made conformity a necessity by not treating blacks as individuals. Forced BP to stay within the confines of their own communities and to think of themselves as different. Almost another species.
I don’t know, but I wish I could find some answers on this.
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Anyone ever get into Bad Brains? Amazing black punk/metal reggae group from DC. And they were all Rastafarian, funnily enough. It’s odd but cool to hear a guy screaming about Jah and Babylon over shredding guitars.
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x2z8af_bad-brains-soul-craft_music
I used to be really into hard rock. But Living Colour (brilliant black rock group) and Jimi Hendrix kinda acted like a bridge into funk and soul, which is what I’ve mostly been into ever since.
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Oh, but the best black heavy rock song of all time – “Super Stupid” by Funkadelic. Ohhh Yeahh.
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I love black women. Rrrrrrrrrr.
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I beg to differ EurasionSensation:
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@ eurasian; didn’t know that one before. Pretty cool. But still, Jimmy H is the one for my taste.
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Heres one from Jimi, Ozzy could do this one anyday and nobody would see any difference in genre.
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@herneith; niceee 😀
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“They’ve mixed with natives (which were already a mix of Illyrians, the Romans and the Celts), the Huns, the Avars, the Bulgarians, the Huns, the Germans (just to name a few on the Balkans)… ”
Uh… almost all of those groups are white. I don’t understand. White people mixing with white people?!
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White people mixing with white people?!
Shocking, isn’t it? 😀
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Doesn’t the word “Slav” come from “slave” because the Romans used them as slaves?
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Everyone likes to make fun of Poland.
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Oh yes, I forgot to ask:
What ethnic group do Gypsies belong to? Are Gypsies considered “European” or “white”?
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Doesn’t the word “Slav” come from “slave” because the Romans used them as slaves?
For all we know, it was the other way around. Greeks and Romans misheard the way Slavs called themselves (which was probably taken from the Slavic word “slovo”, in this meaning: word, meant as language unity: people who spoke the same language).
So Greeks adopted the word sklábos to refer to this group of people (often enslaved), and it entered Latin language as sclavus. In time, it became a widely used term. In English, it became “slave”.
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Everyone likes to make fun of Poland.
Really? I wouldn’t know. My gran grandmother was half Polish, and I look a lot like her, so while I don’t identify as Polish, it sure makes me interested in the country. What’s so wrong with Poland?
What ethnic group do Gypsies belong to? Are Gypsies considered “European” or “white”?
Gypsies (Roma) are nomadic people who came, for all we know, from India. They are Caucasians, and, therefore, white (at least there’s no difference between white and Caucasian in my culture). However, they are heavily discriminated against and most of the people don’t consider them to be of the same race. This is a strange situation, but should not be surprising, since there’s so strong ethnic hate against them, and they are darker than the rest of population. However, one must note Serbs and Croats often claim not to belong to the same race (wtf!), which proves the main point: in said part of the world, ethnicity is much more important than the race. (And also, people have no clear idea what the race actually means).
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“Everyone likes to make fun of Poland.”
People also make fun of the French (cowardly, can never win a battle or a war, womanizers, short men, etc.) Oh, well, it’s that some people think Poland is a poor, weak, backward country. (After all, at point in its history, Poland ceased to exist as a country after Germany and Russia took all territory from it.)
Poland is(was?) characterized as being “ghetto”–a word made up during WWII when Adolf Hitler began collecting Slavs onto concentration camps.
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@calculator:
“Everyone likes to make fun of Poland.”
I don’t know that but I do know that norwegians, icelanders, danes and finns like to joke about the swedes. Like, what is the shortest book on history? The swedish war heros.
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Djokovic wins the Australian Open!
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The swedish war heros.
I beg to differ, it’s the Swedish Book of Culinary Arts! Britain, along with bad teeth, ain’t far behind, he** Northern Europe ain’t far behind, boiled beef and cabbage notwithstanding!
Djokovic wins the Australian Open!
Is he good looking?
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Is he good looking?
He’s average looking.
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@ herneith: the Big Book of Finnish small talk is one of the shortest. 😀
Theres a american joke about finns: two finns just moved to Hollywood and decided to celebrate the event. They bought a bottle of strongest vodka they found and went to nearest park to drink it. They sat side by side on a bench, passing the bottle from one guy to another. – Gimme the bottle, said the other. The other gave him a long hateful look and said: – Did we come here to drink or bullshit all day long?
Our food is ok. We don’t boil meat and we do not eat cabbage, we eat reindeers, salmon, bears, some berries and mushrooms, raw ofcourse, and drink milk, blood, water or alchohol. And black coffe, more bitter the better.
Some of the shortest books are also; The history of danish mountain climbing and Italian war heros in WW2.
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We don’t boil meat and we do not eat cabbage
Sorry, I was thinking of Denmark, or was it Estonia? It was one of those countries.
we eat reindeers
You mean your beloved companions, Joukahainen, Jalmari and Larssi, could double as a Sunday meal?
salmon, bears, some berries and mushrooms, raw ofcourse, and drink milk, blood, water or alchohol.
Do you eat these morsels before or after you consume vast amounts of liquor?
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hey everybody 🙂
long time guys
black women you should know.
Amy Sall NY editor of Lurve Magazine
here is a roundup of what she has in her beauty arsenal.
http://intothegloss.com/2011/01/amy-sall-ny-editor-lurve-magazine/
this is one of my favorite blogs ladies, you ladies should add it to your blog list or google readers.
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@herneit: well yes, of course we eat our pets! What else you have them for???
And let me be specific here. We dont drink all the time like the french or those guys. When we drink we want to get drunk, not sip some expensive wine or fruity anisette. That is why we do not drink alchohol all the time. We get drunk only on weekends, fridays and saturdays, wednesdays, sauna days, birthdays, holidays, after hard days on the job, when we feel depressed, when we are happy, when we are sad, when we are bored, when we have nothing else to do etc.
So no need to get sarcastic with our drinking habits. So called wine countries consume more achohol per capita than we. We just consume ours in couple hours instead. 😀
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White women have the best feet!
Most men would probably agree with me.
This is one arena that no other woman can compete in or even come close to. The dark-red or dark-purple nail color in contrast with the delicate creamy milky-white foot is just absolutely beautiful. The high-arched soles with a pink undertone is stunning.
Black women can be beautiful in their own way, as Abagond has proved to us on his blog, but this is one area where black women just have to accept that white women are superior and have the upper hand (or foot).
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@Calculator
Are you effin serious?? Feet??? HAve you really made a thorough study on this, or is this some HBDers version of Foot Fetishism?
Finger licking and toe sucking good, eh? Good grief, said Charlie Brown.
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Eh, JOukahainen was a mythic hero from our national epic Kalevala. Hardly anyone would name their pets after Kalevala.
Reindeers are not pets, they are meant to be consumed -yummy! There’s an initiation rite among the Lapps, where you have to newter a reindeer -with your teeth! Look ma, no hands!
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Eeewwww… big booty butt fetish! And some people thought foot fetish was gross.
Different people have different tastes.
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Who has a big booty fetish? Not me.
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I’m not bothered by your fetish, but your claim that white women have better feet. Based on what evidence? Prejudice?
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“Who has a big booty fetish?”
Lots of black men. Abagond has one too. He openly wrote about it on one of his writings about black women.
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My preferences are similar to Calculator’s. White women do have great feet come to think of it … and Buffie the Body is grotesque.
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Calculator
do you have a foot fetish?
If so tell us about it please, I’m curious.
hey guys blk models are having a fabulous Spring season. There are ad campagns out and blk models scored some majors.
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“do you have a foot fetish?
If so tell us about it please, I’m curious.”
What kind of things would you like to know? I believe that many men have an attraction/fascination/interest in women’s feet but that most men feel embarassed/awkward to talk about it with their wives, fiances, or a serious girlfriends. I hope people don’t find it creepy. Honestly, most guys who are in to feet are normal.
Men have all sorts of fetishes. No one today would call out Abagond because he has a “big bootylicious bootya fetish.” It’s seen as a normal for a black man to like that. Similarly, people don’t call most men “chest fetishizers” either. So I don’t understand what all the fuss is about. Some men are just mesmerized by a pair of beautiful feet.
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I will now explain how and why white women have superior feet than black women.
The average income for black families is lower than white families. Therefore, white women have more money to spend on beauty products than black women. Thus, white women can spend more money to take better care of themselves (by buying a gym membership and exercising) than black women–I mean no offense, but it’s a fact of racism that black families, on average, make less money than white families. This, in turn, allows white women’s feet to be pampered, massaged, and given all sorts of beauty ordeals. Black women, in contrast, due to their low-income level, can only muster enough capital to have their face and hair look “presentable.”
(Note: The above ideas may not apply to every black woman.)
And that is how white women have the best and prettiest feet in the world.
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calculator Honestly, most guys who are in to feet are normal.
It’s pretty normal among African-American men. Many won’t be bothered with a woman with ugly feet.
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Black women, in contrast, due to their low-income level, can only muster enough capital to have their face and hair look “presentable.”
Here in the states, there are have nail shops in the poorest blk neighborhoods.
I guess you’re in Europe right? Maybe it’s a cultural thing. So what nail polish colors do you abhour on toes? I’ve heard guys say they hate blk nail polish on toes. What colors look good on dark and medium skin?
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@chic noir
I’m from the states–the Deep South to be more accurate actually.
Red. Red is a safe color–always looks decent on most women. Red, purple, and maybe black are the best colors, but I’m thinking about white feet. Blue might be passable depending on the woman.
Light green, or light orange looks really gross no matter what race a woman is–it resembles somebody’s throwup. But that’s just me. Also, make sure to have all your nails the same color. Having five different nail colors on one hand or foot looks (and please forgive me for saying this) but it looks messy and slutty.
“I’ve heard guys say they hate blk nail polish on toes. What colors look good on dark and medium skin?”
Were those black men talking about black women’s feet? If so, they could be right. Contrast is the key word. Fair or light skin with a dark red or purple is sexy. I myself don’t like lighter colors, but perhaps you could try pink if you’re darker-skinned. Women with an olive skin-tone look just as fabulous as fair women do with a dark red color.
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no white men talking about white women’s (I guess) i guess.
I wear all sorts of colors on my toes. neon orange and yellow, purple and dark reds.
So what happens to you on the inside when you see a woman with nice feet?
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@ chic noir
Is your avatar really a picture of your feet? If so, they are hideous! You’re never going to catch a man with those type of feet–even if the man isn’t into feet, those will be a complete turnoff in itself. Trust me; I’m a guy.
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“no white men talking about white women’s (I guess) i guess.”
Uh..yeah…I didn’t quite understand that statement.
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“So what happens to you on the inside when you see a woman with nice feet?”
I wonder if she’s single?
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Who has a big booty fetish? Not me.
I myself like a man with muscular buttocks you can carry shelves on, or bounce coins off of!
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@ Herneith
And as I recall, you like a bum in a nice shade of green?
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Hey, wasn’t Abagond supposed to write about the first island book poll post today?
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Feet? yaiks! I love the woman, not her feet. I’ve been with a woman with terrible feet but she was a pro ballet dancer. I’ve been with a woman who had very nice, clean and extremely feminine feet but she was a woman power lifter, so…:D
Maybe I am a freak of the month but for me it is the whole thing, not this or that piece. Some women look nice as bigger, some smaller, some more athletic some less, but they look nice all the same. It is not the teeth, nose, hair, ear, finger, toe, eye, bellybutton, or the mole near the ribs or what ever… 😀
Ok, I admit that I seem to like women with curves, but I am not picky. Main thing is that she is nice, calm, has a good selfesteem and is sex maniac in bed. That is all I need 😀
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My husband is White and he likes feet. Though he was never interested in them until he saw mine.
I think that if you have nicely shaped and easily manageable feet (e.g. not a lot of problems such as stubborn callouses, cracked heels, hammer toes…), it isn’t that difficult to take care of them yourself. For me, all I need is a pumice stone, moisturiser, nail clippers and nail polish.
I’ve never lived in the US, but when I lived in Canada I really felt the Black, East Asian and South Asian women paid more attention to their appearance than the White women. Yes, a lot of the White women would paint their toenails, but many would be walking around in their pyjamas or in baggy T-shirts and jogging bottoms and things like that. No effort was put into the rest of their appearance. I lived in a rather poor area as well and yet I still saw quite a few Black women who dressed in nice clothes, did their hair, wore jewellery, make-up and had their nails done (both hands and feet).
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I myself like a man with muscular buttocks you can carry shelves on, or bounce coins off of!
And, in contrast, I have foot fetish! 😀
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The murder of Meredith Kercher…
I just saw on the channel 5 news that a US TV station will broadcast a film around the murder.
Is this an attempt at the oh so well-known American whitewash again? It now goes international.
Why would have Amanda Knox tried to frame Patrick Lumumba, someone totally unrelated to this case, in a first place?
What’s the real role of Rudy Guede in all of this? He did confess first and told the story from his viewpoint. A welcome target for the so-called “good” white people to weasel their way out? ESPECIALLY a white American?
It wouldn’t surprise me at all if Amanda Knox was the sole perpetrator of the murder.
I am still appalled about this case, to say the least.
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It wouldn’t surprise me at all if Amanda Knox was the sole perpetrator of the murder.
I read about this case in the English language European newspapers and some British ones. It seems these white Yanks take ‘the ni**er did it!’ routine wherever they go!
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World’s Most Beautiful Women by Country (not in any particular order)
Brazil
Lebaon
Phillipines
Turkey
Argentina
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Correction:
Brazil
Lebanon
Phillipines
Turkey
Argentina
Puerto Rico
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Calculator wrote
“no, white men talking about white women’s (I guess)”
Uh..yeah…I didn’t quite understand that statement.
Sorry, that was in reply to your question below
Were those black men talking about black women’s feet?
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What do angels poop?
Answer: Holy crap.
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To chic noir:
Were those black men talking about black women’s feet?
Your Gravatar picture… are those your feet…? I am guessing no.
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What do angels poop?
Answer: Holy crap.
Hahahahahaha!! Keep em coming!
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If FedEx and UPS merged, it would be called FedUpSex.
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Édouard Glissant, French author originating from Martinique, died on the 3rd of February aged 82. He was one of the most influential French speaking Caribbean writers and intellectuals.
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I’ve visited Brazil for a month (only in one city though) and I was surprised how normal the women were with all the hype about how stunningly beautiful they’re rumoured to be (even by those who have been to the very same city). I’ve mostly heard it from people who are fans of Brazilian models (Adriana Lima, Alessandra Ambrosio, Ana Beatriz Barros), so I’m guessing that’s what they would expect… Well, I can tell you they are generally a lot shorter and stouter! I saw a few gorgeous faces and bodies, but no way near as many as I would expect with the rumours. Perhaps it is different elsewhere, though.
And now, something completely random: Do you think White people in the western world find it offensive when those who have cultural backgrounds and/or religions generally unfamiliar to westerners make it known it is a special celebration? e.g. The third of February was the Lunar New Year and I said, ‘Happy Chinese New Year!’ to someone.
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@iris: no, even in Helsinki Finland there was a big party for chinese new year in the city center. Finnish muslims have their ramadan every year with no problems. etc.
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Hey, Is anyone here a dog person? I love dogs! My favorite breeds are bulldogs,blue heelers, botson terriers, salukis, poodles, and saint bernards. Big dogs are my favorite , but I hate the fact that they don’t live long. I fall in love with american bulldogs from watching Homeward Bound as a kid. I love Petey, too. I have an american bulldog/APT mix and she’s the sweetest thing. She lost a fight to every dog and one cat that weight 2 pounds. Some people say she’s useless because she won’t fight no matter what. I think she’s a buddhist monk or somthing. Not everone that owns a lab goes ducking hunting.
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“I myself like a man with muscular buttocks you can carry shelves on, or bounce coins off of!”
That would gross me out! Big butts only look good on women. I also don’t like when they have poutier lips than me. My type is tall and lanky. Love long hair. My dream boyfriend is Gackt. If I find a guy that likes me than looks like a J-rock star, that would be heaven.
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@Usagi:
I am not talking about ‘big’ behinds per se. Having muscular buttocks doesn’t necessarily mean they are big. I am sure those men you like have muscular buttocks but they are more slender. As for the guy Gackt, he has a nice little set of man titays!
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It’s probably because I got a flat butt. /My cousin says that I have a Paris Hilton booty. LOL! Would feel alittle insecure if the guy I was dating have more junk in the trunk than me. My dream men are Miyavi, Hyde, Sid vicious, Axl Rose, David Boxie, Marilyn Manson, and Lenny Kravtiz. I would so ignore a guy like Brad Pitt or 50 cent. I think gothic men are the sexiest. Never been attracted to muscule and sometimes comes off ugly to me.
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@ Usagi
Gothic men? I thought the Goths were extinct/absorbed long ago. And then which Goths do you mean?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goths
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No, there’s still goths around. There’s a magazine called Gothic Beauty. I dress in gothic lolita style. I love victorain style clothes. There’s a bunch of different styles of goth. My favorite color is black. I also grunge or skater guys, too.
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goth_subculture
These type of goths. I doubt that i would be interested in someone that wasn’t a part of the subculture. There’s alot of them on the North side of Chicago. Unfortunely, I live on the South side. Ewwwww, all these ghetto guys gross me out.
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@usagi: “Ewwwww, all these ghetto guys gross me out.” 😀
There are quite a few goths in Finland, few years ago they were everywere and all over the place. I guess it is because for some reason metal is mainstream music here, every one from our president down likes it, so gothic guys and girls are not that a rare breed.
Have you checked out finnish band called 69 Eyes? HIM? I think those might be your cup of tea at least fashion wise if not music ways.
I remember when 69 Eyes started way back and me and some friends of mine were putting up this Bike show (Biker culture festival) and the guys gave them a break and booked them to play there. They impressed everyone, but then again, they were much more raw back then. Then they kind a moved to states and softened a bit, I guess for a bigger market share or something…
If you are into that gothic style, check out also Tuska festivals in Helsinki, Finland. One of the biggest metal festivals in Europe and litterally in the middle of the city. They are thinkin to move to another place from where they used to be but I don’t know… But whole lotta goths out there, and I mean thousands. 😀
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@usagi:
Last year heath wave festivals.
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@sam: Thanks for the input. My husband seemed to think some people would be offended, but he’s probably going by what he thinks his own family would do…
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abagond can u do a post on this racist superbowl ad: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZVQrH0aHGAc
http://www.change.org/petitions/boycott-pepsi—racist-superbowl-commercial-stereotypes-black-women#signatures
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Hey everybody, guess what?!!
New York Jets Coach Rex Ryan has a foot fetish!!! There’s videos on youtube.
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@ Peanut
I just saw that commercial on youtube and it was so hilarious!!! But I do see how one can see it as racist.
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i didn’t think it was funny either…put the stereotypes aside ,it still wasn’t funny. people don’t know what funny is these days…
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I have a question for all the women of the world:
What do you think about short men? I mean, how short is too short? Give me specific heights. Would you give a man a chance if he were the same height as you, or does he have to be taller than you by a couple of inches? What can a guy do to make up for his shortness except for being a billionaire?
Help, advice, and counsel much appreciated!
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Calculator,
I’d say my height or shorter is too short. I am 5’2″ or 5’3″ (I never seem to know hot to convert my height in foots and inches). To be honest, I consider anything shorter than about 5′ 8″ as short.
That being said, I don’t think height is a deal breaker, even if I consider a guy short. But yes, I do admit: shorter guys do need to have something to make up for being too short. I feel really bad for saying this, but I think it’s better to admit this to myself than to pretend I don’t care.
However, the “extra” thing has nothing to do with money, at least to me. I know many women say this, but deep inside, they do want rich men. Not me. I couldn’t care less, and in fact, I’d feel threatened with a billionaire by my side.
In my case, the extra thing could be either physical, or personality-wise. Physically, if a guy has a beautiful hair, possibly longish (see Maxwell post lol), he doesn’t need to be tall at all. Hair seems to be very important to me, so a short guy with great hair is better than a tall one with thin hair. <- Superficial, I know. Other physical features I pay attention to: eyes (warm, intelligent and interesting eyes are important), deep voice or interesting face. All these things can contribute to the overall impression, so to speak.
And of course, one should never forget about personality. This is very important. Nobody needs a guy they can't talk with, laugh with, or enjoy sex with. The last thing is more about personality than physical features. It's usually easy to tell by a guys behavior whether he'll be a decent lover or not.
So to conclude, while yes, I do like tall men and see that as a positive feature, height is far from being a deal breaker.
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@calculator; my own experience with women is this: it makes no difference in real life.
I’m short stubb, 173 cm, and look like an mix between orangutang and the hunchback of Notre Dame, but I have never been without female companion if and when I have wanted one. I’ve been married, engaged twice, have been going out with several women, and very seldomly any have asked how tall I am.
As an ugly son of gun I have also dated a model, “exotique dancer” and such, who have never asked how tall I am. The model was 180cm tall, very slim (59 kg) and stunning and she never asked how tall I am. One lady I dated asked how tall I am and after I told her, she just said that she toughed I was much taller. Go figure.
I think it is the personality. If you are ok with yourself, it is not that much of a deal. Short guys have also been on top all trough the history. Napoleon, Hitler, Stalin and Alexander the Great were not NBA material but I don’t think anybody told them that they were too short for their shorts, at least in their lifetime.
I never ask from a woman how tall she is. I just don’t care. Shortest woman I have dated was around 150cm but pretty and very feisty personality. Tallest was that model. They never asked my height either. I think this height obsession is just a thing now, like six packs and other doodoo, hairless chest and porcelain teeth. Just like those silicone boobs and other BS.
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Thanks for your answers. I was just asking since I’ve seen short women that are like in the 4’11”-5’3” range almost always with tall 6’0” guys. Mind you, I’m taller than these women, but I wonder if I’m not tall enough. These short women are with guys so tall that they’re barely above the guy’s waistline. I’m about 5’5”. I know it’s below average. I kind of regret not exercising as much or eating my vegetables when I was a child.
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@ Sam
Thanks for the input. 173cm = 5.675 feet tall. You’re a little taller than I am.
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@ Sam
For rounding, 173 cm = 5’7”. That’s not short. You’re almost average height.
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Here is what a college professor wrote about learning English:
“WHY IS ENGLISH SO HARD TO LEARN?
The bandage was wound around the wound.
The farm was used to produce produce.
The dump was so full that it had to refuse more refuse.
We must polish the Polish furniture.
He could lead if he would get the lead out.
The soldier decided to desert his dessert in the desert.
Since there is no time like the present, he thought it was time to present the present.
A bass was painted on the head of the bass drum.
When shot at, the dove dove into the bushes.
I did not object to the object.
The insurance was invalid for the invalid.
There was a row among the oarsmen about how to row.
They were too close to the door to close it.
The buck does strange things when the does are present.
A seamstress and a sewer fell down into a sewer line.
To help with planting, the farmer taught his sow to sow.
The wind was too strong for us to wind the sail.
After a number of injections my jaw got number.
Upon seeing the tear in the painting I shed a tear.
I had to subject the subject to a series of tests.
How can I intimate this to my most intimate friend?
There is no egg in eggplant nor ham in hamburger; neither apple nor pine in pineapple.
English muffins weren’t invented in England or French fries in France.
Sweetmeats are candies while sweetbreads, which aren’t sweet, are meat.
Boxing rings are square and a guinea pig is neither from Guinea nor is it a pig.
If the plural of tooth is teeth, why isn’t the plural of booth beeth?
One goose, 2 geese. So one moose, 2 meese? One index, 2 indices?
If a vegetarian eats vegetables, what does a humanitarian eat?
How can a slim chance and a fat chance be the same, while a wise
man and a wise guy are opposites?
How can overlook and oversee be opposites, while quite a lot and
quite a few are alike?
How can the weather be hot as hell one day and cold as hell another?
How can your house can burn up as it burns down?”
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Mira
Thanks for your honesty. I appreciate it.
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Calculator,
You must note that whoever women date might not always be who are they attracted to. Many women still chose not to approach men, so are left with whoever approaches them.
I am a short girl, and I would not reject a guy based on his height… And yet, I only dated tall or average men. Short men were never interested in me. I know this probably makes no sense, but it’s how it is. So of course I dated only tall men, and a few average ones (I am not one of those girls who approach… I am way too shy for that).
So please don’t think any short, or any other girl, dating tall men would never date a short one.
But I must say women do tend to often discriminate against short men. For most women, it’s not a deal breaker, but yes, many would praise tall men without realizing how offensive or hurtful that can be to short men.
And then they all get crazy about a short celebrity (yes, there are many who are around 5’5″ and nobody cares!) which is even more offensive.
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I just saw the pepsi advert and seriously WTF. Who in the bloody blue hell thought that that would be fine and dandy. It is not fine, neither dandy.
Sapphire stereotype in full effect, it’s what everyone loves to see. So I am not surprised but to have all of that bullshit but to shove all the Sapphire tropes into a 30sec ad. That really takes the piss.
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@ aiyo: don’t drink it, thats all.
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Short-man complex with a foot fetish….how creepy! 😀
And what’s with these Emo goths who think they’re better than everyone else? Satanism? Really? I can’t conceive of any self-respecting black person immersing themselves in such a racist ‘religion’, but I suppose it makes some sort of sense to one who wishes to distance themselves from the black community, just for the sake of ‘not being like THEM’. 🙄 I have no religious or political affiliations and am damned proud of it.
I’m bored…slow day at work today and the sun is shining, so I want to be out in it!
Feeling snarky ’cause I’m hungry!!!!! ME WANT STEAK!!!!! Bloody, rare, and RIGHT NOW!!!!! ‘Twould be better if it was venison, though…fresh fish and freshly-killed meat – two of the few things I miss about Alaska, LOL 😎
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I’m a taller than average, but if I don’t approach a woman, what good does my height do? I like sam’s attitude. You cannot change your height. Just accept it and let it show. People who reveal that they are uncomfortable with some of their physical attribute/s are not seen as attractive. Confidence is a must, but over-confidence is a put-off.
Height, as far as I know any women, is rarely a deal-breaker. Usually, NO SINGLE PHYSICAL FEATURE is a deal breaker. If it is to someone you’re interested in, stay the hell away from said person. People always make compromises to their ‘wish list’, because they have to. Otherwise they die alone.
Nuff said! (Cookies to anyone who catches the reference!)
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Wolverine innit?
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You know it, jason, nothing beats a healthy dose of adamantium!
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Aiyo says,
I just saw the pepsi advert and seriously WTF. Who in the bloody blue hell thought that that would be fine and dandy. It is not fine, neither dandy.
Sapphire stereotype in full effect, it’s what everyone loves to see. So I am not surprised but to have all of that bullshit but to shove all the Sapphire tropes into a 30sec ad. That really takes the piss.
laromana says,
You’re absolutely correct in your analysis of the disgusting display of ANTI-BW RACISM/HATE this OBNOXIOUS Pepsi Superbowl commercial presents. To add insult to injury this disturbing “commercial” won Pepsi’s Superbowl ad contest.
Clearly, American media/culture/society have a serious problem with ANTI-BW RACISM/HATE when they choose to promote a “commercial” like this as a form of “harmless entertainment”.
Thankfully, there is a petition (please see link below) BW/BW SUPPORTERS can sign to CONFRONT/CONDEMN Pepsi for their decision to promote ANTI-BW RACISM/HATE.
http://www.change.org/petitions/boycott-pepsi—racist-superbowl-commercial-stereotypes-black-women
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What do you think about short men?
If they are packing and have a large paycheque who cares? I am of the old school’ Paycheque first, realizes who the real boss is, easy to get along with, doesn’t leave the toilet seat up(a deal breaker no matter the height!), looks are a bonus, if he possesses all the above attributes!
Give me specific heights.
I am 5’7, so 4′ would be ideal in some instances, 5’8 in tothers, 6′ in some, 6’5, in others. All heights have their uses, use them!
Would you give a man a chance if he were the same height as you, or does he have to be taller than you by a couple of inches?
Sure, as long as he’s breathing, has most of his wits about him and is packing and doesn’t drool and wear Depends! A good income is a must!
What can a guy do to make up for his shortness except for being a billionaire?
Since you asked, I’d settle for a multi-millionaire! All men are basically the same regardless of height give or take a few inches! It’s not the size of the boat, but the motion in the ocean! The same goes for height. I just want a man! I am sick and tired of these foolish men who just want to hold hands when we are on a date at McDonald’s. I am sick and tired of these men who think that holding hands and going for walks is romantic(they are just cheap)! For them, getting to first base means going to baseball game! Sniff snow sniff ahh arggg!!!!
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Herneith
lol
doesn’t leave the toilet seat up(a deal breaker no matter the height!)
May I ask, why?
It never bothered me. I think our toilet seat is up at the moment, actually!
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There’s not enough tall men in the world for every woman, so some will women will obviously have to settle.
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May I ask, why?
Why yes you may! Here’s a scenario I have encountered for example. Ever get up in the middle of the night and stumble half awake to use the washroom? Well I did! I actually fell into the toilet bowl and almost broke my buttocks! It can be dangerous!
There’s not enough tall men in the world for every woman, so some will women will obviously have to settle.
Seriously, settle? If the man is decent, the woman is not settling, she is gaining a good partner. In the end, height means nothing if the man is an assh*le! It is not a matter of settling, unless you consider settling for a good man ‘settling’. It is a woman’s loss if she bypasses a good man solely based upon his height! It’s like these clowns who love thugs and other losers and then complain because the man is an assh*le, something they knew when the met him.
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I saw Regina King on the cover of a couple of mags in the store today. Man, she is beautiful!!! Why wasn’t she on the Top 10 Most Beatiful Black Women?
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The video is a bit out-dated, but the song is definitely pertinent, especially in this day and age…
Red Rider – Lunatic Fringe
Lyrics:
Lunatic fringe
I know you’re out there
You’re in hiding
And you’re holding your meetings
I can hear you coming
I know what you’re after
We’re wise to you this time (wise to you this time)
We won’t let you kill the laughter
Whoa-oh oh (3x)
Lunatic fringe
In the twilight’s last gleaming
This is open season
But you won’t get too far
‘Cause you gotta blame someone
For your own confusion
We’re on guard this time
Against your FINAL SOLUTION
(Oh no)
Instrumental break
Whoa-oh oh (3X)
We can hear you coming (we can hear you coming)
No, you’re not gonna win this time (not gonna win)
We can hear the footsteps (we can hear the footsteps)
Hey, out along the walkway (out along the walkway)
Lunatic fringe
We all know you’re out there
Can you feel the resistance?
Can you feel the light?
(Lunatic fringe)
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I was re-reading the commentary about the Pepsi/Super Bowl ad and was reminded of an awful preview for un upcoming movie, which looks positively horrendous: Big Momma’s House II.
Why stereotypical drivel such as this so-called ‘entertainment’ is still being made, is beyond me… 😡
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Isn’t this fascinating?
http://www.cnn.com/2011/US/02/14/mississippi.kkk.controversy/index.html?hpt=Sbin
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Esperanza Spalding won the grammy for best new artist beating Justin Beiber and his crazy fans got even crazier. (If that were possible) and wrote some rude stuff on her wikipedia page. And other places too just some bad racist stuff.
These are little teen white girls by the way so if any parents wants to say that their child is colorblind and doesn’t notice color should really shut the fudge up.
I am glad she won I am fan of hers and I’m glad she is getting mainstream attention. I was surprised that a lot of people didn’t know who she is.
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abagond keeps ignoring my comments…:)
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abagond just give me a clue how old you are? are you in your 40s?
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this what u referring to: http://www.compellingmind.com/the-grammy-winner-esperanza-spaldings-wikipedia-page-gets-vandalized-by-justin-bieber-fan/2433291469/
i don’t get this justin bieber kid, i hear his name every so often ,i heard a clip of him singing “happy birthday” on youtube, wasn’t impressed…i don’t get what the hype is about him…is he the male version of miley cyrus?
i guess maybe to teenage white girls he’s an icon?
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To all the women of the world:
I’m not sure if this is the best place to ask (because I don’t hang out with women a lot), but, as a woman, what advice would you give men who try to ask you out?
OK, here’s the situation. I’ve been meaning to ask out this girl in one of my classes since around last September (shocking long time, isn’t it?). I met her and her male friend while we were being tutored at the beginning of last semester. They looked like they could be siblings, so I asked if they were brother and sister. The guy just replied that their families knew each other well and so I just assumed that they were friends. Well, fast forward after the first test, the guy drops the class because he failed, and I find out that she and her “friend” are actually in an “on-off relationship.” I’m like, WHAT THE HECK?! If you were dating, why didn’t you tell me that the first time I asked you? I don’t speak the language of women, so I didn’t know what an “on-off” relationship means. It’s kind of frustrating because I wasn’t sure if it was appropriate to approach her since she has a semi-boyfriend or whatever.
Depressed, I tried to get over her. I have convictions and a code of honor so I don’t go around stealing people’s girlfriends. Even though I tried to forget about her, I couldn’t. Everytime I closed my eyes, I saw her warm smile, her beautiful eyes, and her freckles.
Well, I have a class with her again this semester (is this a coincidence or fate?or because we have the same major?) and heard her say that she’d broken up and is single.
Now, here’s the tricky part. I’ve never had a girlfriend in my life and have never asked one out before.
She’s an acquaintance, not a friend. I’m typically a shy guy (not a good trait in men) and am an introvert. I wish I could be more outgoing. I don’t know if I should ask her out before class, after class, or somewhere else. Does it make a difference if I try to be friends with her and try to ask her out or should I do so immediately? (I’m leaning towards going ahead and asking her.) Also, what kind of dates do women like? I don’t like going to the movies. It’s so cliche and we don’t get to talk and know each other.
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what advice would you give men who try to ask you out?
Ask us out. We like to see you are interested in us, just us (we don’t like guys who ask all girls out), but also that your life doesn’t depend on it. (= don’t look desperate).
If you were dating, why didn’t you tell me that the first time I asked you?
Obviously, they were not comfortable talking about it. Maybe they were “friends with benefits”. Maybe they were one of those couples that can’t be together but can’t break up either. In any case, they didn’t want to talk about their relationship.
(is this a coincidence or fate?or because we have the same major?)
It’s probably because you have the same major 😉
Now, here’s the tricky part. I’ve never had a girlfriend in my life and have never asked one out before.
There’s a first time for everything. It’s important that you actually do something about this, even if it turns out badly. It’s better than to do nothing.
She’s an acquaintance, not a friend. I’m typically a shy guy (not a good trait in men) and am an introvert. I wish I could be more outgoing.
Contrary to popular belief, many women like shy and introvert men. But most women still refuse to approach men, so even the shy guy has to ask them out.
Does it make a difference if I try to be friends with her and try to ask her out or should I do so immediately?
Yes, it does make a difference, I think. It’s best to find a balance: you want to be her friend, so she can get to know you a bit and see what a great guy you are. It’s more likely she’ll go out with a guy she knows, than a random stranger (unless he’s incredibly hot… like, movie star hot). If you’re not one of those guys, being her friend is a good thing.
HOWEVER – and this is THE most important: you don’t want to become her close friend. Because she’ll see you as a friend and not a boyfriend material.
So I’d say, being a little closer than an acquaintance is the right thing. Try to talk to her a bit, try to spend some time with her before and after the class. Be there, talk to her. And after a while (but not a long while, don’t wait for months or even weeks to do it), ask her out.
That’s the best advice I can give. There’s no guarantee it would work, but you must prepare yourself for that. And you know what? Even if she says no, you’ll live. And everything will be alright. So don’t look at this as so important or traumatic. Try to tell yourself it’s important, but not THAT important.
I’m leaning towards going ahead and asking her.
Well, if it’s how you feel, do it.
Also, what kind of dates do women like?
It depends on a woman. Personally, I don’t like movies. I mean, I love movies, but as a first date… no. I like to walk (and talk) and honestly, I don’t expect anything arranged or special. A date doesn’t have to revolve around an event (going to movies, dinner, etc). But that’s just me.
However, this is another good reason to get to know her at least a bit. Also, you can always ask her what she’d like to do on a date.
In any case (I know this is cliche, but it’s so true): Just don’t pretend you’re something that you’re not.
AND DO NOT MENTION THE FOOT FETISH!!! 😉
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Also, what kind of dates do women like?
Take her out for supper(I’m starving as I type this)! Whatever you do, don’t take her to MacDonald’s! I will admit though, that the Angus Beef, bacon and cheddar cheese hamburgers are delicious! After you have your supper, take her for a walk in the park and get to know her better! Repair to a park bench for some after dinner beverages! The date will be cheap and romantic as well(you being a student and all, I’m sure your funds are limited).
Another methods is this; If you ask ten women out, at least two will say yes!
I’m typically a shy guy (not a good trait in men) and am an introvert.
Many women love shy men. They love pulling him out of his shell! As a bonus, they don’t have to worry about him cheating as he is too shy to approach other women!
Now, here’s the tricky part. I’ve never had a girlfriend in my life and have never asked one out before.
Nothing tricky about it! You seem like a decent fellow. Just ask, the most the girl can say is no. If she does, there are more out there! Move on!
Does it make a difference if I try to be friends with her and try to ask her out or should I do so immediately?
Do so immediately! The early bird gets the worm, you may get a leg-over if nothing else!
AND DO NOT MENTION THE FOOT FETISH!!! 😉
I beg to differ. this may be your calling card for attracting women! Good luck.
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Mira and Herneith
Thanks. I appreciate it.
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Just found out about this today.
http://jobbankusa.com/News/Hiring/hiring100803a.html
Abagond have you done a post on this? I know it’s stupid to be shocked by racism in America but I admit I didn’t think it was still like that. It’s sick. It makes me want to leave this country.
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Jason:
I have not done a post on the Pager study alone, but it was brought up here:
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Calculator,
Just ask her out. “Hey, would you like to get coffee sometime?” is a good start. If all goes well on the coffee date you can proceed with something more ‘romantic’.
Since you are just an acquaintance of hers there is no need to get too heavy on the first try. You might get to talking with her and realize you have nothing in common and dont want to date. Use the casual daytime meet-up to feel her out before planning something like a dinner.
Hope that helps.
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Also if you go the coffee route and you realize it wouldn’t work, there is little monetary and time investment, which makes it easier to move on to another girl you are interested in.
Like Herneith said dating is a numbers game more than anything else. The more women you get to know the better your chances of finding a girlfriend.
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Thanks Y. It never hit me that dating was a numbers game.
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*shrugs shoulders*
lacromna what you think?
http://blackgirlsareeasy.blogspot.com/2010/11/are-black-girls-too-loyal.html#comments
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Has Thad been banned? I haven’t seen him comment in a long time.
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Yes, Thad was banned.
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Why was Thad banned?
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Thad was very vocal and insulted a lot of people. On the other hand, he was highly educated and an expert on his field. If this was my blog, I definitely wouln’t have banned him. Too many people here have too soft, baby skins.
I liked him, but the again, I’ve always gotten along with very abrasive people. I hope he’d come back.
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I liked Thad. Much of what he said offended people, but, like Hannu said, he’s an expert in his field and always backed up his statements with facts and evidence and solid logic. Things just aren’t the same without Thad.
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I don’t know if this has ever come up but out of curiosity, what is the age of the regular posters here.
I make a start. 48. 49 in a couple of weeks.
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“…I liked Thad. Much of what he said offended people, but, like Hannu said, he’s an expert in his field and always backed up his statements with facts and evidence and solid logic…”
Its true he could be an “arse” at times. But at least he provided some worthwhile contributions. Which also forced a higher standard of reply from those who opposed him.
As someone who has read and monitored posts here since his banning am I not the only one to observe that the quality of commentary has sharply deteriorated?
Its not just people like Thad too. There was also “J” his arch nemesis. I suppose he was also banned as well?
I think this says more about Abagond’s interpretation of a comments policy boarding precariously on authoritarian censorship. Something, in my view, one might want to strive to avoid in a new non-traditional medium like an Internet blog.
There are already plenty of strictly controlled mainstream arenas for polite expression so why would one seek to copy or replicate them? Particularly if they don’t represent the best model for the expression of not often talked about subjects like racism.
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Actually I think Abagond’s leniency does more to prevent good discussion than prohibit it. I think many intelligent commenters don’t spend their time here beyond reading Abagond’s posts. Too many trolls.
Thad derailed every thread with his nonsense I’m glad he got booted. Was he smart? I always thought smart people know when to shut the f*ck up.
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@ Femi
33
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http://blackgirlsareeasy.blogspot.com/2010/11/are-black-girls-too-loyal.html#comments
LOL. Thought it as funny but I really liked the one about phat butts. http://blackgirlsareeasy.blogspot.com/2010/11/are-black-girls-too-loyal.html#comments
It’s so true. I don’t see the appeal of a huge butt. Women like buffie look like circus freaks, to me. Really, it’s where poop comes from.
“Esperanza Spalding won the grammy for best new artist beating Justin Beiber and his crazy fans got even crazier. (If that were possible) and wrote some rude stuff on her wikipedia page.”
She deserved that award. I don’t like neo-soul/R&B music at all, but can tell thats shes good at what she does. Justin is just commerical pop that will go away in a couple of years. He’s as talented as Brintey Spears. That and I loooooooooooooovvvvvveeee her hair.
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I seem don’t get the whole loyality thing. I’ve noticed that bm are mad at me just because I don’t find them attractive, unless they’re like Slash. I can see if I was talking down to them or saying black men don’t do, or that. I just don’t find the “black” culture interesting in general or manly features are ugly to me. I don’t care about skin color or hair texture, but don’t like broad features. By black culture, I mean by aa or w. african standards. I don’t know. My dating is meh, but it wouldn’t be any different on the other side. Men drive me crazy overall. Besides alot of white, latino and asian men find me very attractive, for so weird reason. I heard about asians and latinos liking lighter skin, but alot seem to find my color pretty, so. Maybe people are just giving white people too much credit.
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At times I got pretty annoyed with Thad’s ability to miss the point, but some of his posts I found thoughtful and enlightening, especially the ones about history and human biology. I don’t like it that he got banned, but then it’s not my blog.
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@ Kwamla, Jason:
I agree more with Jason: I am too lenient – I do not have a strong enough policy against trolls.
J is not banned.
Thad was in some ways one of my best commenters but in other ways one of my worst. I probably deleted more Thad comments than anyone else’s. He could be very mean and uncivil and he played Last Man Talking to the hilt. He was something of a bully.
I banned Thad because he would not lay off of Menelik Charles. Just like what he did to B.R. – which led to B.R. getting banned even though it was Thad who drove him to it.
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“At times I got pretty annoyed with Thad’s ability to miss the point, but some of his posts I found thoughtful and enlightening, especially the ones about history and human biology. I don’t like it that he got banned, but then it’s not my blog.”
True, but sometimes I found him to be annoying.
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@Femi
18
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I don’t know if this has ever come up but out of curiosity, what is the age of the regular posters here.
Old enough to know, old enough to do something about it!
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What happened to Ankhesen Mie?
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I would like everyone to see this “the most dangerous place for the african-american is in the womb: http://hellobeautiful.com/hellobeautiful-original/yeahshesaidit/say-what-an-african-american-womens-womb-is-dangerous/
now what do you all think of this billboard i would like to know.
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they’re really getting out of hand with this racism towards black women this is unacceptable
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@ Femi
21
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Femi 47.
This dating game: I never realized it is was a game at all. I have always gone straight at it. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn’t. I guess I’m too lazy and old for games. But then again, I always was, so…
Some women get terrified when I tell them that they are the most beautiful beings on heaven and earth, some take it as a compliment, and some laugh out loud. Some of those who laugh loudest have been with me. And, on a positive note, when our relationships have ended for a reason or another, they have been laughing still when we have separated. I think that is a positive thing. Too many times separtions include crying and sorrow. At least they have been happy to leave me. Some even today tell me that I am the most ridicilous guy they ever met. See, I put a smile on their faces and they have happy memories of me. 😀
On thad: he was a smart guy, but sometimes he seemed to take issues too personally and got little too exited. He also wrote a million words a minute and answered to all and percieved arguments. But he did put some contributions in discussions, that is for sure.
On abagonds line, personally I think that it is rather good one. Sometimes I have written some not so well thoughed replys and abagond has deleted them, which is all right with me. Most of those deleted responses have been rubbish or too personal attacks, so good riddance. And this is abagonds blog, so…
Personally, as a white guy, I think this blog has been a great thing for me. All these ideas, discussions, controversies, the whole lot has been a good experience for me. Some commentators make me laugh, some make me mad, some make me think etc. I think this is one of the better ones I have come across in the Net.
Also, without this blog I would have never known that herneith is going out with a martian guy, or what was it. A guy with four arms and nice green skin. I never knew they were here already.
So thanks to abagond and all of you! Lets keep it up.
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I’m 29. Well, 30 in a few months.
Thad was… One of a kind. This place is not the same without him, that’s for sure. As a commenter (and a person of similar academic interests), I could say I miss him here. But I wouldn’t want to be a blog owner who has to monitor his behaviour, that’s for sure!
He had a lot to say (a LOT). Some of it was among the best comments written here. Other stuff was his ego writing, splitting hairs and playing the Last Man Talking game. He also insulted quite a few people along the way.
(But I must admit I’d love to see his rants in the “Mefisto” and “race realist” thread. He sure had the patience and persistence other people, including myself, lack. )
The dating game: I hate it because I never knew how to play it.
Calculator: Any news concerning that girl you like?
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Usagi,
Yes, the loyalty thing is quite complicated. It works similarly for any kind of loyalty (ethnic, religious). While I certainly understand why it exists, it’s up to people to decide, individually, whether they want to engage in it or not.
I consider myself a very loyal person, but I choose my loyalties based on individual merit, not on shared ethnicity (or other collective identities- though I must admit I do feel a bit of of loyalty towards people of my gender. Not as much as some other people, though).
because I don’t find them attractive, unless they’re like Slash.
Oh, but Slash is one of a kind! Joking, lol. If you’re referring to black guys who are into rock, metal, etc, I am sure it’s somewhat difficult to find them in real life… But there are many of them online. There are so many black (and other non-white) rock musicians and fans it was difficult for me to believe rock was considered a “white thing” in the US.
It’s so true. I don’t see the appeal of a huge butt. Women like buffie look like circus freaks, to me.
Hey! It’s not like we can choose what kind of butts we have…
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@peanut:
You beat me to it – I was going to post about that abhorrent billboard as well. I find it disgusting, hateful, and blatantly racist – and the comments following the article are outrageous! The assumption that a majority of abortions are had by BW is false, so this billboard is merely living up to the pathetic stereotypes that people hold us down to. Reprehensible… 😡
the dating game: The rules of that are different for men than they are for women, so it’s imbalanced from the get-go. The rules also change based on your age, so adjust accordingly! 😎
@sam: The only one of my exes that I’ve remained friends with, has a similar outlook on life as you – he’s Australian. I can imagine that you definitely left women with big smiles on their faces, for many reasons! 😀
@Femi: 40 at the moment; turning 41 on the Vernal Equinox. I still feel 21 (some days, LOL) and look 30! No surgery, either… 😉
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@ Femi…
40
I miss Thad, J and B.R… I still enjoy Abagond´s blog though. A lot of great stuff. I just don´t engage in the comments as actively as I used to. Great stuff.
Cheers to all…
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no outrage over the billboard i see?
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I would like everyone to see this “the most dangerous place for the african-american is in the womb: http://hellobeautiful.com/hellobeautiful-original/yeahshesaidit/say-what-an-african-american-womens-womb-is-dangerous/
now what do you all think of this billboard i would like to know.
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@peanut: what can I say? Notice the name of the organisation; Heroic Media. It is really heroic to accuse BW being most dangerous for their kids even before their birth. And yes, use the kids! That is always so heroic. Right? no.
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“Calculator: Any news concerning that girl you like?”
Well, here’s what happened. She and I are usually the firstcomers to class and I planned on asking her out before class started yesterday. Well, she didn’t come to class until about a minute before the instructor showed up and in a room full of students.
I was kind of shy asking her out in front of class full of people. I don’t want people to spread embarassing gossip. I wanted to ask her out privately.
We don’t have class again until next week, so if I don’t have enough time, I’ll just ask her if I could talk to her for a few minutes after class.
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@peanut
My Thought on the Billboard
Yes, there were a few of those billboards in my area. When I first saw them, I didn’t think it was racist or anything. It was just pointing out that black babies were being killed. They were trying to save black people’s lives!
However, when I think about it again, I can see how some people think it indirectly or subtly sends the wrong message that black women are somehow loose or demoralized.
In the end, I think those people were just trying to do a good thing, but… I don’t know how else they could do it since the black community was their target audience after all. Perhaps it would be less offensive if they just got rid of the picture of the little girl on the billboard.
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@peanut
Let me ask you. Do you WANT more black babies to be killed?
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@calculator: oh no, please, not the abortion debate.
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We don’t have class again until next week, so if I don’t have enough time, I’ll just ask her if I could talk to her for a few minutes after class.
Nice! Just remember: even if she says no, it’s not the end of the world.
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@ peanut:
See my post. I don’t get histrionic, but I am disgusted over the billboard. I don’t know if you saw my comment regarding it, so…
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@calculator
Abortion is a pretty common thing among white people too, if the data on http://www.abortionfacts.com/statistics/race.asp is to believe. I did not calculate and compare them, but at a glance it seems in the states where white and black populations are close in number the rape percentage is also pretty close, e.g Alabama has 7425 white population with an abortion percentage of 52.2% of the entire state compared to its black population of 6425 people accounting for 45.2% of abortions in the state. Georgia, Louisiana are two other states where number of black people is more or less equal to number of white people and their abortion rates are comparable. Besides, the number of abortions performed on white women is far higher than that of black women. Also, I don’t have much knowledge about how races are determined in the US but I think many of the American black women are more than half-white so when they have abortions they’re considered abortions on black women. So I don’t understand why they had to make it about abortion among black women instead of abortion in general.
I’m not going into the debate whether abortion is ethical or not. It just doesn’t make sense why they had to single out black women to make their case. Do they want white babies to be killed?
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@angelsanddimensions
I wasn’t saying that black women had more abortions than white women or that white women had more abortions than white women. I don’t know where you got the idea to compare white women to black women from.
“Besides, the number of abortions performed on white women is far higher than that of black women.”
Well, that’s because white women are the majority, and black women are a minority. White women outnumber black women about 6 to 1, so, of course they probably account for most abortions. What the group was trying to do was focus on black women.
Here’s the fact: Census data shows that by 2050, Asians will increase, Hispanics will incease, and whites will all increase in number. Guess what? Blacks will actually DECREASE in number by midcentury. And that’s with African immigrants and mixed people included as well.
Frankly, I’m surprised at many commenters here. Apparently, seeing more “strong, black families” was a lie.
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Apparently, political correctness and trying to be polite, rather than saying the truth, is still what people apply when they want to see things their own way.
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**Well, that’s because white women are the majority, and black women are a minority. White women outnumber black women about 6 to 1, so, of course they probably account for most abortions. What the group was trying to do was focus on black women. **
What I don’t understand is why they need to focus on black women, as I said in my previous comment. Yes I know there are more white women than black women, but when the abortion rate is more or less the same(or as it seems), and the number of abortion is higher among ww, I don’t see why they had to focus on black women alone. Maybe you can explain that?
**Here’s the fact: Census data shows that by 2050, Asians will increase, Hispanics will incease, and whites will all increase in number. Guess what? Blacks will actually DECREASE in number by midcentury. And that’s with African immigrants and mixed people included as well. **
I’m not American, so it gets confusing for me at times. On one hand there exists the popular image of a black single mother with 4 children, and on the other hand the census data predicts that the number of black people will decrease.
Stereotypical bosh aside, with this statement you actually mean to say that bw have such a higher abortion rate than women of other races that their population is going to decrease. Otherwise I don’t see why it is relevant.
Assuming it is true that black population (percentage?) will decrease, there can be many possible other things contributing to it such as the number of black immigrants compared to others, black women staying single(Abagond did a post on it if I remember correctly), higher mortality rate among blacks(of course, if it is population you’re talking about and not percentage, then higher mortality rate alone cannot be the cause of decrease in population) etc.
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**Stereotypical bosh aside, with this statement you actually mean to say that bw have such a higher abortion rate than women of other races that their population is going to decrease. **
I never said that abortion is the single cause of a decreasing black population. It is only ONE of a number of reasons–reasons such as you mentioned like single black women are high mortality black rate.
–“Let’s take 100 black men. By the time you eliminate those without a high school diploma (21 percent), the unemployed (17 percent) and those ages 25-34 who are incarcerated (8 percent), you have only half of black men, 54 percent, whom many black women find acceptable.”
–http://abcnews.go.com/Nightline/single-black-females/story?id=9395275
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“What I don’t understand is why they need to focus on black women, as I said in my previous comment. Yes I know there are more white women than black women, but when the abortion rate is more or less the same(or as it seems), and the number of abortion is higher among ww, I don’t see why they had to focus on black women alone. Maybe you can explain that?”
Excalty!! It seems that they’re always trying make bad bp sound so horrible. Like with the “black” love crisis. How can no one brings up things like John List, Chris Benoit, James Matory, or Jean-Claude Romand: a French drop-out from medical school, managed to make everyone in his family believe that he was a doctor working for the World Health Organization. The biggest irony is that he was knowledgeable enough in medicine so that genuine doctors would not realize that he was an impostor when they spoke to him, making you wonder why he just did not just pass his exams and become what he claimed he was. He killed his entire family when he was about to be exposed.
But black relationships are just sooooooo messed up.
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@angelsanddimensions and Usagi
I don’t know where you got your data from, but according to this:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/22689931/ns/health-womens_health/
–“About 13 percent of American women are black, yet new figures from the Centers for Disease Control show they account for 35 percent of the abortions.”–
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@usagi: 😀 Right!
And lets not forget Adolf Hitler and his family life, or lack of it, or something. That guy was a bad dude, used drugs etc. But still, he was not a black man, as far I know.
I think this ad campaing is rasicst. It focuses on black women alone in a very conrtoversial subject (particulary in USA) and sublime message is that black women are dangerous for their babies. You can explain or say anything you want, but that is the message this ad carries along: black women are most dangerous for their babies, in womb or anywhere. And the fact that it is run by white southern organisation makes it even more creepy!
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I really believe that I may be the only person on this thread to care about black babies.
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@calculator; ok, think about this for a minute:
Louis Farrakahn and Black Muslims put up huge ads all over the country, in central place in New York, and in the ad there is a picture of a very sad and cute white girl alone and along side a huge text: “The Most dangerous place for white babies is their mothers womb!”.
I mean, white women do most of the abortions. Statiscally that would be right, no??
“The Most dangerous place for white babies is their mothers womb!”.
What would the public think? What would the media say? How dare these black fanatics… What would you think??
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anglesanddimensions,
I don’t see why they had to focus on black women alone.
I don’t know. The only thing I can think of is that they claim the whole campaign was directed to African Americans. ?
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@ Femi: I’m 34.
@ Calculator:
The billboard is in really poor taste because it tries to inject race into the abortion debate, where race is in fact irrelevant.
You are not the only person to care about black babies. It’s just that opinions differ about whether a fetus is of the same status as a baby.
The reason that black people are more highly represented in abortion stats is that they are generally of a lower socio-economic demographic than white people. Unwanted pregnancies tend to be more common amongst those with less money, power and education.
The best way to lower the black abortion rate would be to uplift black people. People with better life options usually are less likely to need an abortion.
However, if you stamped out abortion today, it would make it much harder for blacks to progress. The harsh reality is that unwanted babies are more likely to grow into problem children (and be more likely to end up causing more social problems themselves) , and will also hinder the ability of the mother to improve her lot in life (in economic terms).
Thus I actually think abortion is positive, rather than negative, for the black community.
Of course, I’d much prefer that everyone “put a sock on the pickle” and then we wouldn’t need abortion at all.
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Of course, I’d much prefer that everyone “put a sock on the pickle” and then we wouldn’t need abortion at all.
This. I really don’t understand the views in which you either have the baby or get an abortion. What about contraception?!? It is THE most important step one must make. If you are against abortion, then think about contraception. If you are not into having babies out of wedlock, or at the age of 17, or wherever, for whatever reason (be it economical, personal, etc.) – then use contraception.
I understand many programs in the US are designed in the way that make it seem contraception is more or less useless (it’s not 100% secure, so why bother, right?), but you know what- in most of the cases, yes, it DOES prevents the unwanted pregnancy, and the condom protects you from STDs.
That’s one of the reasons why I don’t think highly of men who refuse to use condoms.
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@Femi
soon to be 23.
@Mira
Yeah, that’s what their claim seems to be, but why would they campaign exclusively for black people? From what I read, they are a religious anti abortionist group (with a general agenda), not a black community upliftment one.
@calculator
I compared abortion rates of different races to find out a reason why someone would choose the black community as their target audience, i.e if abortion is an exclusively black issue. Turns out, as expected, it is definitely not so. In fact, the abortion data correlate much better with young age and to some extent poverty.
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Yeah, that’s what their claim seems to be, but why would they campaign exclusively for black people?
Exactly. THAT was my first question. I understand they’d use black models for campaigns targeted to blacks. But why did they chose to target it to blacks in the first place?
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OK, sam’s comment changed my mind about the whole thing.
**This is what I get for living in a strong white culture; I have a hard time understanding or relating to blacks.**
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Does anyone watch anime?
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Anyone have suggestion for computer files/folder encryption software?
@calculator:
Yes.
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Herneith,
Really? Cool, which ones are your favorites?
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Past medical testing on humans revealed:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110227/ap_on_he_me/us_med_experiments_on_humans
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What does encryption software mean?
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@Calculator:
Bleach, Samurai 2, Beserk. Basilik, Twelve Kingdoms,Ruroni Kenshin, Saiyuki etc.etc.
Encryption software is for locking up your files and or folders from prying eyes. it does so by using algorithms in various strengths. So if you wanted to keep financial or other personal information contained in computer files confidential, you could use this type of software to do so. It supposedly prevents hackers from cracking your codes and hacking into your files. There is also password managers which work along the same lines, ad-blockers, and so forth.
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@Herneith
Sorry, I don’t know much about computers.
The only ones I’ve seen that you mentioned are Bleach and Ruroni Kenshin. Ruroni Kenshin is one of my favorites–though I haven’t seen it in a looooong time (like, 7 years ago when Toonami was still going).
I’m not much of a mainstream guy, I usually like the niche titles no one’s ever heard about. I checked out Bleach to see what it was all about. It’s quite good, but I felt like it was like Naruto or DBZ or any other long-running shonen series with the same ideas and theme (get beat up, learn a secret technique, go kick the other’s guy’s butt).
What about these?
Spirited Away (Miyazaki)
Elfen Lied
Higurashi
Death Note
The Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya
Rumbling Hearts
Shikabane Hime
Gundam Seed
Grave of the Fireflies
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I never got into this anime thing. My daughter did. She even started to draw her own comics based on the anime.
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@Sam,
How popular is anime in Finland? Is anime aired on TV in Finland? What about manga?
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@Sam
Is she a good artist? Has she gotten anything published?
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@calculator; well, shes just drawing for own amusement but has said that she will go on studying graphic stuff or something. She has the talent, but time will tell if she has the will to become an artist. Couple of years ago she was really into manga and some anime, but now, at 15, she has other interests 😀
Like a decent guy and father that I am, I have my shotgun ready for any guy who tries to sneak around 😀
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@calculator; anime was big for few years on tv, same as manga. They started the magazine called Anime here too. But now, I do not know.
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@calculator:
Anime fan here, too! 😎
Bleach
Blood+
Trinity Blood
Lelouche (sp?) of the Revolution
Ghost in the Shell
Death Note
Moribito: Guardian of the Spirit
Fullmetal Alchemist: Brotherhood
Noein
Eureka
Robotech
Akira
Harmageddon
Grave of the Fireflies
Twelve Kingdoms
Ruroni Kenshin
DBZ
My son enjoyed Pokemon, Naruto, DBZ, and Inuyasha, too, so I would watch those shows with him often.
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I asked out the girl today in class. She said yes.
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Do any other college students feel like this?
You feel depressed. There’s a burden you carry everyday. You feel it in your heart. Pressure like boiling water comes down on you from your parents. Like there’s no end in sight to graduation. You barely sleep studying into the wee hours of the night. You’ve lost the interest and motivation to learn. You don’t care anymore.
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I asked out the girl today in class. She said yes.
Great! I’m happy for you. 🙂
As for your question, I’m not good in handling pressure, and my mother tends to be possessive sometimes, so it wasn’t a good combination.
But then I moved and it was all well. I was one of the best students in my generation.
Losing interest midway tends to be normal, I think. But you just keep going (unless you realize you REALLY want to change major or something).
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How do you persuade a college professor to give you a better grade? It’s worth a shot.
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How do you persuade a college professor to give you a better grade?
It depends on a professor! Getting them to like you usually helps, at least here. But usually there’s nothing you can do.
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I just want to say thank you to all the people who helped me ask out that girl. I just feel down at the moment, which is why I seem sad. Something happened later during the day.
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How do you persuade a college professor to give you a better grade? It’s worth a shot.
Slip them some cash!
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Well, OK here’s what happened. I asked her out. She said yes. I was in lala land.
Same day, I have a lab practical. Only except the professor was very poor at telling us how much time we had. If I would’ve known, I would’ve gone through the exam faster. I had maybe a whole page left blank. Yeah, I’m angry. I don’t know what I can do. Anybody else been in the same situation? How did you handle it?
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**Slip them some cash!**
Really, Herneith?! Did that really work for you? I’m desperate here. I’ve known a math professor who once refused an entire brand new car from a rich kid whose daddy owns a car dealership. And the kid was only asking to raise it from a D to a C!
Mira,
I’m not sure that getting him to like me would help much.
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And what makes me more angry is that I studied really hard for that practical. I should’ve done well. Ah, I just want to tear my limbs off!!!
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First of all, calm down. It’s not the end of the world. Plus, this girl wants to go out with you!
I advise you not to do anything illegal. Just try your best next time. That’s all you can do.
And remember how it usually goes: for every time you study hard and get a lousy result, there’s a time when you don’t study much but it turns better than you expected! (This is something I observed, lol)
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No it didn’t work for me, I was only joking! First of all, are you taking classes geared towards a career you really want? Many of today’s youth cannot make up their mind. Are you doing what you want to do or what others want you to do? What year are you in? It is usually the last year (4year degree, good marks) that counts should you wish to go into a profession or graduate school. Anyhow, you probably did better than you suspect. How many time have people thought they aced an exam only to have performed poorly? Wait for the results. Good or bad, you will survive! As for the girl, if she is a fellow student, she will understand these pressures and cut you some slack!
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Herneith and Mira,
Thank you for your kind words. You know what, there’s a bit of truth in what you guys said about studying hard and doing poorly on one test and not studying and doing well on another. It has happened to me on more than one occasion this semster. I’m not much of a literature guy, but one literature class is required for almost every student. I thought I was going to have to work hardest in World Literature than in Physics or Biology, but the opposite turned out to be true! Every class we have a quiz over the readings. The instructor drops our lowest quiz grades. One day, I had a busy week and didn’t have the time to read the assignment. I just skimmed the reading 5 minutes before class. Guess what?! I got a perfect score! It’s like, no matter what I do, I keep doing well in literature. I just wish it were true for my science classes.
I am a sophomore in my second semester. The reason I was up in arms about this whole thing was because this lab is a pre-requisite to pharmacy and dental school. I could care less if it were, let’s say, literature or a foreign language class. But the fact that graduate school and professional schools eye these classes more heavily is the reason I need to do well in them. I need to graduate with a 4.0 if I’m going to make it–at least according to my parents. How common are students that graduate with a 4.0?
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I am not familiar with the US system so I don’t know how common 4.0 is or how to get it. But isn’t there a way to do the lab again if you’re not satisfied with the result. or something?
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**isn’t there a way to do the lab again if you’re not satisfied with the result. or something?**
Sure, of course, I recently did a lab again for physics. It’s just that this was a practical–an exam. It would be no problem if it were just a regular lab.
4.0s are rare in the U.S. collegiate system the further one goes through college. The reason is that the instructors make the classes so difficult to weed out those who can’t withstand the rigor. Usually, students’ GPAs go up in the junior and senior years though.
Here’s how GPA (Grade Point Average) works in the U.S.:
4.0–all As
3.0–all Bs
2.0–all Cs
1.0–Don’t even bother showing up.
There is a formula for calculating exactly what your GPA is. I don’t remember it now, but if you get an equal amount of As and Bs, you end up with a 3.5.
How common is a 4.0 where you live?
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I even bled myself during the lab. Yes, my own blood. I was that determined. I’ve got a scar on the inside of my cheek to prove it.
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How common is a 4.0 where you live?
He have a completely different system. Elementary and middle school (middle school being equivalent to high school in the US) grades are 1-5, which correlates, as far as I understand, with US system in a way 5 = A, 4 = B, etc.
But for universities the scale is different. Grades are 5-10 (5 = fail), and I have NO idea how you can convert this to 4.0 scale.
My GPA is 9.57 out of 10.0 Using basic math, it’s around 3.8, but many people told me you don’t convert grades using simple math and that my GPA might actually be higher than 3.8 (depending on the subjects they take into account, I guess), maybe as high as 4.0.
But I honestly don’t know how to calculate it, and I guess each US university does the conversion based on some internal rules. International students are strongly advised never to convert their grades themselves.
But to answer your question, getting 10.00 on your whole studies is extremely, extremely rare, because getting 10 on an exam is more difficult than getting an A. (A is equivalent with the grade 9). So any GPA stronger than 9 is considered excellent, with GPA 9.50 and higher being considered a top score. So whenever is demanded excellence, they demand GPA higher than 9.50, and not whole 10.00.
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I’ve got a scar on the inside of my cheek to prove it.
Now I am scared to ask what you had to do in that exam, lol.
But on a brighter side, this girl wants to go out with you! (Focus on positive things).
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In the lab you had to take a toothpick and scrape off some epithelial cells (cells covering the outside, like skin cells) from your mouth. I went a little crazy because I wanted to do it right.
On the bright side, the girl accepted my date! I just hope my parents won’t go crazy.
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To all the people of the world:
How did you tell your parents about your boyfriend/girlfriend? Was it like “Hey, Mom, I just got a girlfriend.” How do you tell them?
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Calculator
I never tell them. I usually introduce one of my siblings to my SO thought just in case.
*chic noir gives calculator a hug and kiss on the cheek*
Don’t worry, everything will work itself out kido.
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I just hope my parents won’t go crazy.
Why would they go crazy?
Also, it’s not their business, at least not yet. It’s just your first date with this girl.
Was it like “Hey, Mom, I just got a girlfriend.” How do you tell them?
Well, I preferred to keep things to myself, but since I lived with my mother I had to let her know I dated someone, especially if i wanted to bring him home.
But I was never really hiding my bfs or anything. I’d just go: “I met this guy”. But I never asked her about boyfriend advice or anything like that.
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@chic noir and Mira
Heh…heh… ha ha ha haaaa!!!!
I’d forgoten that you don’t know my situation. My parents are pretty strict, depending on the circumstances. They’re so strict, I’m 18 and still don’t have my driver’s license. I’ve never had a cell phone. A lot of students have part-time jobs so they obviously have a bit of spending money (plus mobilization and transportion).
So, yeah, (ahem), I’m not your average student.
The thing is, I need to tell my parents about her so that they can drive me to my date (how lame, huh?). There’s no other alternative. The date, however, should be affordable since it’s just coffee.
I would’ve liked to introduce her to my parents only if it had become a serious relationship, but as it stands now, I kind of have to let them know that I need their help dating her.
You as women probably think I’m pathetic.
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I’m 29 and I don’t have a driver’s license.
What about public transport, is that an option?
I don’t think you’re pathetic, I am just not crazy about the idea of parents being around when it comes to someone’s dating life. Especially if parents are strict.
They tend to make dating life more difficult.
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@ Calculator:
As chic noir says, you just gotta tell them. Don’t ask their permission, don’t act like its something you should be ashamed of. Just tell them, and act really happy.
Now that you’re 18, you gotta start being a man. You folks are gonna have to get used to it. Be nice, but don’t sugar-coat stuff too much for them, they need to enter the real world.
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**What about public transport, is that an option?**
That would be great!!!–if I lived in an urban area with trains and buses. I live in a semi-rural area where there are cows sometimes roaming through the campus because of the farms around the area.
Oh, did I forget mention that they never let me go out alone?! I mean it. They do, however, let me stay home alone if they ever need to go out and get something.
@Eurasian Sensation
**Now that you’re 18, you gotta start being a man. You folks are gonna have to get used to it. **
Any inkling of a rebellious attitude and I’m homeless begging for food. Their word is the law, higher than federal law.
I’m also half-Asian but I guess your parents allowed you greater freedom.
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@Mira
Europe is generally more centralized, densely populated, and urbanized than America. It’s normal for adults to not have driver’s licenses. Also, Europe discourages people from buying cars by increasing gas prices with high taxes.
America, on the other hand, is a wild untamed land that is still almost empty, especially in the Mountain West Region. More people live in New York City than in the entire states of Idaho, Wyoming, South and North Dakota combined.
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@sepultura 13
I loved Death Note. It’s in my top 5! The thing that makes it stand out is the plot. Cliffhangers at every episode makes you just want to watch more and more. It arguably has the best plot ever.
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I live in a semi-rural area where there are cows sometimes roaming through the campus because of the farms around the area.
I hate when people exoticize things, but I actually find this image endearing. Plus, I love cows. But I live in a large city (around 2 million people) so I guess that’s why I find this interesting.
I’m also half-Asian but I guess your parents allowed you greater freedom.
Not that it matters, but I thought you were black. Not sure why; I guess because majority of commenters here are black (and female, but that’s another story).
It looks like your parents are extremely strict. I know they wish you well, but you need to find a way to grow up.
I am not talking about this date; let them drive you if that’s the only option, but don’t let them get involved in the date itself.
But you are 18, and soon you will have to face the world as a grown man. Your parents can’t protect you your whole life. You need to be prepared to face the world, not matter how hard they want to protect you.
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I don’t know about the rest of Europe, but people here do not choose not to have cars; many simply can’t afford it.
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**Not that it matters, but I thought you were black. **
Nope, half-white half-Asian (hapa).
“Don’t worry. Be hapa.”
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@ Calculator:
I’m also half-Asian but I guess your parents allowed you greater freedom.
Hells yeah. I had what most would regard as a “normal” level of freedom.
I would say Asian parents are in general a bit more conservative than white ones. But yours sound like they are in a whole different league.
They need to decide if their need for control is worth the chance that their son will grow to resent them for the rest of his life.
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@Calculator: Whoo! Way to go!
About telling the parents: My parents won’t let anyone in our house date until college, but my sister got a boyfriend the first week! 😉 Do what she did: if everything goes well and you guys start going out, don’t tell them or have her come over to your parents’ house until a few weeks in if you think/know they’re going to freak out and demand to meet her as soon as they find out (like my dad did).
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On the subject of manga/anime: I don’t usually watch anime, but I love absolutely anything by Hayao Miyazaki! He’s amazing! My favorite mangas are:
Death Note, Eyeshield 21 (football manga), Yu Yu Hakusho, Natsume Yuujinchou
I also liked Hana Yori Dango (aka “Boys Over Flowers”) but I almost stopped reading it in the middle because it was so irritating. Tsukushi, the main character, couldn’t choose between two guys, and then there were all these random obstacles that kept popping up. *sigh*
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I love anime and manga. I draw manga and are working on one to put up online. I love Hunter x Hunter, Hell Girl, Baccono, Higarashi, and One Piece.
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@Halisi
My favorite Miyazaki film is Spirited Away. I consider it to be his best.
@Usagi
I love Higurashi! I love the complex plot, sort of like Death Note. It keeps you on the edge of your seat at every episode. I’ve seen some of Baccano! I’ve read the Hell Girl manga but haven’t seen the anime.
By the way, has anyone heard of Summer Wars? It was supposed to be nominated for an Oscar. I don’t watch the Oscars, but I am curious if anyone knows if this anime won something.
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Abagond,
You went to college, right? How did you get your instructors to raise your grade?
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@Halisi
If you’re looking for a good romance, try Rumbling Hearts. I guarantee you that you will not be disappointed. And this is coming from a guy!!!
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@Color of Love/ Abagond
Was J banned??!?!?! If so, when?
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Calculator:
I never asked teachers to raise my grades except when I thought they made a mistake in grading a test, which was rare.
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Here’s my plan that I concocted for convincing my instructor to raise my grade (tell me if you’ve got anything better):
1) Tell him about my sad life story. This coaxes him into understanding me and makes him look like an insensitive bad guy.
2) Tell him I’m not asking him to give me an A. Just a chance so that I can earn an A by doing better next time. But, this exam is worth so much, that anything below a passing grade on this one will destroy my chance at an A. Persuade him to have this exam have less weight. Depending on how I did, ask him to curve a little. Perhaps an extra lab report grade too.
3) Tell him it was just a stupid silly mistake. I misunderstood the time limits and left a page blank.
4) Tell him I’ve always made an A on every single one of his exams before and that I’ve never missed a homework assignment.
5) Tell him not to answer immediately, but ask him to give it some thought and time.
6) If that doesn’t work, threaten to blame him in my suicide note.
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Abagond
Did you have a 4.0?
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J was never banned.
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No, no 4.0.
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@ Y – as Abagond already stated, J was never banned. It would be nice to see him around again. Hope you are well !!!
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I just hope my parents won’t go crazy.
They will probably thank the Lord you didn’t bring home a girl with a bun in the oven or a man!
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Calculator-
Eurasian & the ladies have given you great advice & support.
i just want to add that i think you will enjoy this girl’s company more if you see her for what she is right now–a new friend. that will relieve so much pressure on both of you. it may also lessen some of your stress about having to introduce her to your parents. “this is my friend _________. we’re going to have a coffee & talk about a class we have together.”
hey, you’re definitely not pathetic. you’re just having new & exciting experiences. that’s what this time of your life is supposed to be about, so you’re right on schedule.
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**I just hope my parents won’t go crazy.**
They just went crazy. Apparently, I’m not allowed to date until I graduate? I don’t know when I will be able to date. 35?
It’s a shame since this girl is just the type of girl that they’d like. She’s quiet, kind, and understanding. We both have the same basic values. She’s not a party-girl. She’s both intelligent and beautiful. I’m frustrated at seeing all this for naught.
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@ Calculator
Thanks for the suggestions! I’ll definitely check them out.
I liked Death Note also not only because of the art (the drawings were clean and realistic, for a manga) but also because of the plot–it was suspenseful, fast-paced, and always kept on going, but not in a “my god, when is this going to end?!” way, like Hana Yori Dango.
I also thought Spirited Away was adorable, but Chihiro was a bit annoying at first because she didn’t listen and couldn’t stop whining. Howl’s Moving Castle, Porco Rosso, Whisper of the Heart and Princess Mononoke were wonderful, too.
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You can’t date until you graduate college? Now that’s ridiculous. If you’re eighteen, you’re a legal adult now and although you respect them, I don’t think this means you have to do everything they say that seems unreasonable. I’d talk to them levelly and see if you can compromise. But really–if you’ve proved to them that you’re responsible and that you can make smart decisions, then I don’t see why you can’t date.
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It’s no use talking to them. They immediately assume the worst of everything. Like if I start dating, that it will distract me from studying and that I’ll start failing.
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I think J perhaps got cheesed off and stopped hanging out here because Thad was giving him such a hard time. Which is part of why Thad got banned I guess.
I had a soft spot for Thad and think in many ways this is a much less interesting blog without his presence. However, I don’t blame Abagond for banning him, since he had this condescending and overly competitive approach to debating people which drove several people away. I wished he was able to tone it down a bit… a somewhat kinder and friendlier Thad would have been great.
Actually around that time, the level of personal abuse in some of the comments was getting a bit much for my liking, and I’ve been dropping in less and less since then.
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Yeah, play it cool…Just say you guys are going to talk about a class or a project over coffee
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This is what some people have said:
**If you’re eighteen, you’re a legal adult now**
**Now that you’re 18, you gotta start being a man. You folks are gonna have to get used to it. **
**But you are 18**
This is (paraphrasing) what my parents say:
“Sure, you’re 18, but you only have a high school diploma, no job, no money, no house/apartment/place to sleep, no one to take you in, no friends to help you, and above all, you have absolutely NOTHING!!! We virtually own you! We even own your s$#^! Without us, you’re nothing. We’re going to decide what you major in, what classes you take, when you’ll date, and what clothes you wear. We will not hesitate to disown you and throw you out. We’ll see who helps you then.”
So, as you see, I’m virtually their slave.
Then, they make me feel guilty by saying that people in Africa and other poor people are way worse off than I am and that I should thank them that I have such a comfortable life in America. This makes me feel like s!@%.
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Isn’t there a chance to go out with this girl after a class or something? When they are not around?
They are your parents and you should respect them, but… They also have to respect you, and you are 18; you’re not a child anymore. I’m not saying you should do something stupid and irresponsible, but they don’t own your life, you know.
There’s no reason for you to fail just because you date. It’s not like these things are mutually exclusive. What I think is that they want you to stay child for as long as possible. (Or they are very religious and want you to stay virgin till marriage or something… But it’s still not a choice they should make; it’s your own choice).
Do I sound harsh? Perhaps. But I’ve seen strict parents and while I understand their concerns, I don’t have much respect for this kind of behaviour. Not because I believe teenagers should be allowed to do whatever they want, but because strict parents’ motives often prove to be less than sincere and honest with their concerns. In short, they want you to stay child so they can control you. They think they know better than you what the world is like, and guess what, they’re right: you don’t know anything, because you are not allowed to. Not good.
I am not saying your parents are like this, Calculator, but thinking about this sure makes my replies a bit harsh.
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Calculator,
Your parents DO sound a lot like my friends’ parents were. Same rhetoric, same way of thinking (this is my house, my rules), etc. The only difference is that my friend is female; males are usually not given any hard time dating in my culture (unless they want to date other guys, but that’s another story).
This things usually give pretty bad results. Teens either rebel and make a mess (because they are inexperienced and don’t know how to behave in the real world, and it does it make seem like parents were right for not letting you do anything- my friend (another one) got raped, for example). Another common result is that a person lose any self esteem. The first friend I mentioned developed anorexia.
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My parents arent’s religious (I’m the only Christian in my family).
I do not want to do something stupid or irresponsible (I’m abstinent until mariage.) All I want to do is just respectfully get to know this girl. I can handle their picking my career, picking my classes, deciding what clothes I wear, occasinoally blaming me for their financial woes, but I’m going to explode like @$!& if they choose my spouse!
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Mira,
Why did she develop anorexia? Surely, (I’m assuming) she was somewhat attractive.
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It’s true that my parents want me to stay a child. They do not want me to grow up to and be an adult. (They have actually said that.)
Even though I’m male, I guess my parents treated and raised me a little bit like a daughter. (When I was a baby, people sometimes mistook me for a girl because of how cute I was dressed.) Don’t get me wrong; I’m not a cross-dresser or gay, but one time I was described as “soft” by them! Girls are soft; guys are not. That adjective is supposed to be used on females, NOT males.
Usually, parents worry about the quality of girls’ boyfriends. Their fathers have a shotgun ready.
I am the opposite. They worry about ME getting hurt.
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I can handle their picking my career, picking my classes, deciding what clothes I wear, occasinoally blaming me for their financial woes, but I’m going to explode like @$!& if they choose my spouse!
Well, it’s not like they can do it if you don’t let them.
You say you “can handle” them picking your career and classes, but maybe you should think twice about being ok with it. It’s not like they are entitled to it, even if they are the ones providing you home and food and paying for your education and what not. I mean… they are your parents, it’s their job.
In situations like this, people sometimes choose to get a job and move out, so they can be free. I am not sure if that’s an option for you, but you might think about it.
Why did she develop anorexia? Surely, (I’m assuming) she was somewhat attractive.
It’s a long story, and sure has a lot to do with psychological issues. She was somewhat chubby, which is considered very unattractive in my culture (beauty standards are very strict). A year before that, she lived in America as an exchange student, and nobody thought of her as overweight or unattractive. So when she got back, it was a cultural shock, so to speak, to be seen as ugly again. I guess it’s how it all started.
But the way she developed anorexia is not as important as the fact nobody in her home noticed it until she got really sick.
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Calculator,
Gender roles are complicated issue, but, in short, there’s no such a thing as a “true male” behavior. You are as male as any guy who pick up fights and act aggressive in public. So don’t worry about that.
It’s true that my parents want me to stay a child. They do not want me to grow up to and be an adult. (They have actually said that.)
Well, it’s usually how it goes. You need to understand it has nothing to do with you as a person; it’s about them and their fears. But it’s not your fault. Strict parents usually have very good kids, kids that don’t drink, smoke, kids who behave their best and don’t go out much, if at all… And yet, parents treat them like they are juvenile delinquents, locking them even more, making them feel guilty, making them think they are bad and that the only way to get better is to listen to them.
I am the opposite. They worry about ME getting hurt.
Well, all parents want their kids to be happy and all worry about their kids getting hurt. But locking them up in a tower is not a solution.
One thing parents don’t understand, and it’s very important: if your children want to do things you fear or don’t approve, they WILL do it. They will behave nice around you, but will skip classes. They will dress modest (girls), but change into revealing clothes in the school. They will pretend to study, but will download porn. They will have unprotected sex. Or whatever is that you fear that they might do.
If they really want to do it, they WILL find the way.
So instead telling them “no, you can’t do this, because I’m your parent and this is my house and you must obey my rules because I say so”, they should make an effort to understand and get to know their children (many parents don’t know their kids at all!), and to be there for them, to explain the potential dangers and to teach them how to live in the outside world, because they will not always be there to protect them.
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What I’m saying is, instead of saying: “you can’t go to that party because I say so; you can start dating at 25”, explain the dangers and say what is that you fear. Inform yourself about what kids their age actually do these days, what are modern dangers that might not have existed in your time. Then, warn your kids about those dangers and offer an advice on how to behave. Saying: “always watch your drink, just in case” (of someone giving you a rape drug) is more beneficial than saying: “you can’t go in there, you will get raped”. (or, even worse excuse for an explanation: “because I say so”).
In short, teach your kids how to protect themselves and fight back; don’t lock them up hoping they will remain babies till they turn 25.
This is one of the reasons, btw, why I’m not a fan of abstinence-only sex ed. It doesn’t teach you how to protect yourself, should you ever need to know this information. It’s all down to: “no, you can’t, just forget about it”. So a kid who decides to have sex before marriage is completely unaware of real dangers and doesn’t know how to protect herself. A teenager armed with knowledge of contraception and, equally important, emotional aspects of sexual relationship will less likely end up pregnant, with STD or badly hurt.
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Mira
In America, there are men called chubby-chasers who actually PREFER, LOVE, DATE, and DESIRE fat women!!!
Your culture’s standards of beauty must indeed be very strict if she was thought of fat and not in America. America is generally an overweight and obese nation. There’s no shortage of fat people here. I read a study about obesity (I can’t remember where it was) but it basically said this about women:
Black Women: 80% (overweight or obese)
White Women: 43% (overweight or obese)
Asian Women: 16% (overweight or obese)
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Well, the point is that she wasn’t overweight, she was average. She had healthy weight and a normal BMI. But she wasn’t as skinny as a model, and usually, any hint of a butt or strong legs is considered a no-no. You know there are many Eastern European supermodels? Well, girls are expected to look as close to them as possible (ok, being short is not seen as a bad thing, as long as you’re skinny).
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Mira,
In America, people are so fat, that a slightly overweight person is lauded as a model.
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**In situations like this, people sometimes choose to get a job and move out, so they can be free. I am not sure if that’s an option for you, but you might think about it.**
Getting a decent paying job in America is as rare as an honest politician. Did you know that people with college degrees are struggling to find jobs? Not jobs with good pay, but any job at all, whether it be working fast-food minimum wage or store clerk. For example, a Wal-Mart (a huge corporate grocery and clothing store)opened up near my area. With the store brought around 100 or 200 new jobs for the area. Guess what? The store received 5000 job applications! Applications from many people who have a college degree by the way.
The job market is fiercely competitve. Unless you have an advanced degree like a Ph.D, are an engineer or a doctor, you’ll be worrying about job security for your whole life.
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@calculator: one day you have to decide are you going to live YOUR life or the life your parents. I am aware of differences in cultures and so on, but if you want to live YOUR life, there is no way around it. You have to start make desicions of your own. Once you are of a legal age, it is up to you. No one, not your parents or anybody else, can tell you how to live your life.
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@calculator
is the coffee shop too far away from your home?if not, you can hire or borrow a bike or ask her to meet you at a place near your house. or as somebody suggested, take her to the date after class.
you can earn some money by tutoring some kids of your neighbourhood which i don’t think your parents would object to. there are several ways you can earn money from home. heard of e-tutoring? many of us do that here for extra bucks, but i’m not sure how the rates would suit you. besides, you’ll need a bank account, which i’m guessing you don’t have at the moment, so get one. next time they blame you for their financial woes, tell them you’re getting a part time job.
you shouldn’t’ve let them pick your subjects and now you shouldn’t let them pick your date. if you think you wouldn’t be able to handle the drama, don’t tell your parents and ask your date to make some compromises and try to make it up to her later.
every parent gives that ‘i’ll chuck you out’ s^&t, don’t buy it unless your parents are the type that beat their kids. avoid them as much as possible and save your pocket money for your dates. if you think talking to them and trying to make them understand your situation, do it, but with patience and tact. if you think your parents would treat the girl nice if you bring her home, you can try that.
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Getting a decent paying job in America is as rare as an honest politician. Did you know that people with college degrees are struggling to find jobs? Not jobs with good pay, but any job at all, whether it be working fast-food minimum wage or store clerk. For example, a Wal-Mart (a huge corporate grocery and clothing store)opened up near my area. With the store brought around 100 or 200 new jobs for the area. Guess what? The store received 5000 job applications! Applications from many people who have a college degree by the way.
True, alot of people are trying to pay off student loans, while looking for a job. It’s a no-win sititution.
“It’s a long story, and sure has a lot to do with psychological issues. She was somewhat chubby, which is considered very unattractive in my culture (beauty standards are very strict). A year before that, she lived in America as an exchange student, and nobody thought of her as overweight or unattractive. So when she got back, it was a cultural shock, so to speak, to be seen as ugly again. I guess it’s how it all started. ”
I suppose to depends on the person. For me, being overweight in America was horrible. I was a size 22. It made look older, I hated the plus-size clothes, and still had a flat pancake butt. They still to like “thick” like Beyonce, but not fat like Jill Scott or Fantasia. I’ve heard that bm like big girls, but I think it’s a streotype. Weight tends to make people look less attractive.They also say that blacks have a different standard on fat. I don’t know. My mum’s a health nut and most of the pretty girls in school were thin.
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Wow…I think ‘Open Thread’ should officially be named “calculator’s thread”…nobody else can get a word in edgewise, unless it revolves around him!
Narcissus lives… 😀
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**don’t buy it unless your parents are the type that beat their kids.**
OK, my parents are the type that beat their kids. How does this change things?
American women have a bad reputation in my parents’ eyes (promiscuous, seducing, cheating, etc.) They don’t think that the girls here are “good.”
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The hardest part is finding a time when I can see her. My parents are always around me–even at college! There’s no way I can hide anything from them.
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Well, this IS the Open Thread, where Abagond has written:
“On this thread nothing is off topic, though the rest of the comment policy still applies. If you want to say something off topic, this is the place to do it.”
I’m just a guy with questions. I’m sorry. Now, that I’m getting banned, I want to say thanks to everyone.
Goodbye.
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Usagi,
I suppose to depends on the person. For me, being overweight in America was horrible. I was a size 22. It made look older, I hated the plus-size clothes, and still had a flat pancake butt.
Well, it’s all about the body shape. People might change their weight, but not their body shape, and it feels really sad to have a “wrong kind of body shape” that is not considered attractive in your culture (because, as we all know, men are shallow <- joke, joke!)
They still to like “thick” like Beyonce, but not fat like Jill Scott or Fantasia.
She was thick like Beyonce, not overweight. But like I said, even that is considered fat in my culture. Thick (hourglass) figure tends to be rare, especially with young girls, so having a thick figure is considered bad.
I’ve heard that bm like big girls, but I think it’s a streotype.
I guess it is. What I do think is that they prefer a figure that is different than the one desired by white guys; but they still want a girl to be of average weight.
I don’t know if it matters, but most of the guys that asked my friend out were black or Latino. We didn’t understand it back then (because Latinos are white to us), but white guys weren’t as interested in her as these two groups. So there might be some truth to the fact black (and Latino?) men like thick; but not overweight. A woman still needs to satisfy their standards, and even with their groups, thin is considered better; they don’t seem to like big girls, but thin girls with body shape different than the one preferred by the whites.
Is this fair? No way.
sepultura13,
While it’s true some of us focused on Calculator’s problems, nobody else posted here in a while (except for this short conversation on anime). Plus, even if Calculator’s concerns are not genuine, I do think we touched a sensitive and an important issue (obsessively strict parents) that I feel strongly about.
Calculator,
Now, that I’m getting banned, I want to say thanks to everyone.
You’re getting banned?
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What? Why?!
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There appear to be two competing models of race relations in the US today.
The first can be described, following David Hollinger, as the “ethnoracial pentagon.” According to this view, American society is fundamentally divided into five discrete groups: whites, blacks, Hispanics, Asians, and Native Americans. Everyone belongs to one and only one of these blocs. Furthermore, ethnic group membership is determined from birth and not closely connected to a person’s physical appearance and culture. Those who hold this view of race relations often conclude that everyone borne to one “white” parent and one “black” is “really black”, regardless of what they look like and their socialization. Those of a Hispanic background are often not considered to be “white” even if they have blond hair and blue eyes and not considered “black” even if they have strong African features. Mixed race people with partial origins in the “black” caste are strongly ridiculed for suggesting that they are anything other than “black.”
The second model is less rigid. Under this formulation, you are basically considered what you look like or what your predominant ancestry is. Cultural attributes, such as speech patterns and tastes in entertainment and food are also important. Ancestral origins and even parental identities are not so important as what your own tangible characteristics are. There are no rigid society wide rules about who is what. Rather identities and statuses are fluid and negotiated on an interpersonal basis.
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The proper way to dispose of any flag is to burn it…
http://www.kptv.com/news/27066714/detail.html
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@Mira and Halisi
I was only joking about the being banned part.
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The gawdawful Westboro Baptist Church gets to spew their vitriol at the funerals of dead soldiers. In light of that free-speech ruling, what do other USA citizens here think of this charming fellow? See below:
http://www.katu.com/news/local/117330013.html
Personally, I’m glad when people wear and/or air their beliefs on themselves and their vehicles – makes them EXTREMELY easy to spot!
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@ sepultura13:
While the USA’s commitment to freedom of speech is commendable, there is obviously an extent to which that principle can be taken too far. Most other Western democracies would have taken concrete measures against the Westboro Baptist Church by now to stop their insanely disrespectful funeral protests.
Maybe some police officer should just decide to believe that they are armed, handcuff them, plant crack on their persons and lock them all up. If the Westboro folk were black that might have happened already!
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(continuing from above)
7. In previous posts I made the argument (over-dramatically) that mixed people should have right to self-identity because of difficulties with social acceptance in certain communities. Though problems with social assimilation seem to be a major issue for many, the issue should not be thought of as a necessary defense of one’s identity choice. Really the only justification they need for identifying ethnically as they do is: “Well, that’s just how I feel.” Multiracial people know their social relationships and environment better than anyone else and should feel free to express their position in the community.
Now, as I mentioned above, everyone is free to agree or disagree in a civil manner with a person’s self-identity. However, highly overt and forceful challenges to a person’s stated ethnic affiliation are inappropriate and should be criticized. They are uncalled for because choosing to identify a particular way inflicts no tangible harm. Ethno-militants such as blogger Tragicmulattoes may disagree arguing that self-identification harms “people of color” and increases “racial inequality.” These arguments have always struck me as laughable. Anyone with common sense can see that the major threat to “POC” is not biracials identifying as they see fit but rather social pathologies such as fatherlessness, drug abuse, educational failure, and the commission of violent crime in the inner cities.
Highly emotive, negative reactions to mixed people’s identity choice should not be interpreted as a problem with multiracials but rather with those who take issue with them. The proper response is not flustered and half-baked justifications for one’s self-concept (which in any case is likely to be based on a wide range difficult to articulate social circumstances) but rather a question about the disordered conditions in the life of the critic which motivated such a display of insecurity.
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Tyler Perry picked to play “Alex Cross” in the movie adaption of “I, Alex Cross,” one of the books in author James Patterson’s Alex Cross mystery series.
“Alex Cross” is the main character in Patterson’s series of books about a DC-based psychologist/detective/FBI agent.
http://www.deadline.com/2011/01/tyler-perry-as-alex-cross/
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@Temple
Did you know that Alex Cross was made into a manga?
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While talking about freedom of speech in the US, what do you think about the arrest and imprisonment of Vikram Buddhi, an Indian researcher, in 2006 for allegedly posting anti-Bush messages such as calling on Iraqis to avenge the war and kill Bush, an allegation that Vikram(who’s still in jail) denies and no substantial proof is found to support?
http://rt.com/usa/news/indian-student-jail-bush/?fullstory
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@Calculator
That’s interesting. Although i’m not a manga fan.
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OK, I didn’t know where else to put this comment, so I posted this on the Open Thread–a new comeback to one defense whites use to deny racism.
Some white people that try to explain away institutionalized racism with the fact that Barack Obama is now president. That is like saying that just because Nelson Mandela became the president of South Africa in 1994, that all blacks have full equality in South Africa–which everyone knows they don’t.
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Calculator:
I call that the Black President Argument:
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Abagond: Who was the woman that was above your “Black Beauty of the Day” link?
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Bre Scullark
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http://www.cnn.com/2010/US/12/21/white.persecution/index.html?hpt=T2
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@leight 204
Interesting article!
But I have to ask, Abagond or anyone else who can answer, what about the hyped-up white people who point out increasing interracial marriages to deny racism? I mean, it IS true that interracial marriages are more common–well, OK, except for maybe black women.
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The number of IR (or general inter-group) relationships and marriages could be one of the indicators of how open people are to cross the racial (ethnic, religious, etc.) boundaries.
However, unlike what some (white) people think, these do not magically stop the racism. It just doesn’t work that way. Having mixed kids obviously doesn’t prevent racism, nor does it marrying outside your race.
Still, it is true there are more mixed marriages in cultures that are open to these kind of unions. But mixed marriages themselves can not cure racism and other forms of prejudice. It’s one of the common white fantasies to think that they can.
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You as women probably think I’m pathetic.
not at all. your parents just need to back off. where are your parents from?
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@Caculator
In 2008 only 14.6% of newlyweds married someone of another race and only 8% of all current marriages are mixed. I don’t think marrying your own race makes you racist, but if America was really & truly color-blind, the numbers would be a lot larger than that. Furthermore, just bc someone is fine with others marrying at least one race(80% of Americans) doesn’t mean they are okay with all(63%). Blacks and whites are the least likely interracial/ethnic couple and polls have shown that only 66% of Americans would be fine with a family member marring someone who is Black. That number(mind you those are the ones that old the TRUTH) is horribly low for a “post-racial society.”
http://pewresearch.org/pubs/1616/american-marriage-interracial-interethnic
I don’t know where you guys live, but I do not see all of this racial mixing in the Southeastern United States.
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@Abagond: Thanks! She has such a beautiful face, and her hair is nice, too. What happened to your Black Beauty blog, anyway?
@Cynic: I know what you’re talking about. In the mid-Midwest, the amount of casual ignorance here is stunning.
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All day I have been noticing typos that I KNOW I didn’t make. Now I don’t know if such a glitch is possible, but either somethin really funny is goin on or I’m startin to lose it!
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**where are your parents from?**
I’m half-white half-Asian (hapa). But my dad’s not American, he’s European.
“Don’t worry. Be hapa!”
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@Cynic
**
I don’t know where you guys live, but I do not see all of this racial mixing in the Southeastern United States.**
I also live in the South. I don’t know what you’re talking about not seeing racial mixing in the South. I see it all the time–although it’s usually a bm/ww or wm/aw.
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@Cac
Race mixing is not prevalent in my state. Certainly not as prevalent as people like you make it seem. I go to a VERY multi-racial, multi-culti university and I still don’t see all of this mixing. Maybe bc you yourself are mixed race you notice it more than it really occurs.
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halisi @Cynic: I know what you’re talking about. In the mid-Midwest, the amount of casual ignorance here is stunning.
could you give some examples please.
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from what country is your dad from calculator? Is he French?
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Cross-cultural relationships certainly can’t stop racism and xenophobia. The thing is that those are actually unrelated. It’s a very private choice which usually happens just naturally on an interpersonal level. It would be absurd to assume that two people of different origins get together for consciously making a point about racism.
However I would say the opposite is very true. Hostility, intolerance and denial towards “inter-racial” mixing promotes racism. Promoting “purity” is actually promoting racism. Then again, the desire for “purity” is fundamentally racist in itself. The perpetrators don’t care at all about the well-being of the “inter-racial” couples. All they care about is their own aversion towards people mixing. It is fundamentally self-righteous.
The worst problems arise when someone of mixed origin is automatically considered to belong to one side alone. Believe it or not, there are in fact cultures in this world where someone of different origins is widely considered to belong to all of them. That is however also dependent on how much affinity the mixed persons have to any of their origins. If they personally ignore any of them without any outside pressure, mostly out of lack of exposure or disinterest, it still doesn’t obliterate the truth of their origins.
Racism is a complex social illness. The majority choose to only look at the “us vs them” constellation which is the most promoted. However, what many people don’t (want to) realise is that there are countless examples where people mistrust or even reject many people of their own origin. I’ve encountered European French in the Antilles who considered white French obnoxious, Germans, Brits and Americans who are embarrassed about their “own” people, North Africans totally rejecting Muslim culture, Cameroonians stating that their fellow citizens are crazy and not to be trusted etc etc…
The remarkable thing is that in all those cases the decisions of these people to adopt an identity they felt a stronger natural affinity to, were acknowledged with respect from their fellow citizens, apart from a few exceptions. Exceptions who would call them “traitors”. All those “exceptions” revealed themselves as racists, jingoists or at least intolerant populists.
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a blog to make you smile.
http://whatmadeyousmiletoday.blogspot.com/
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Announcement for the whole world!
I will now be going by the new name Serpentus (formerly Calculator). So, Abagond, I am NOT a sock puppet or anything.
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Thank you.
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I’m going to change the picture. The first hexagonal blue guy with the creepy smile freaked me out. This purple guy looks like he had too much to drink.
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@chic noir: Some examples from school-
-my biology teacher was writing the word “mitochondria” on the board, and misspelled it. She then apologized for “going all ghetto on us.”
-my orchestra teacher overheard some students talking about certain schools being ghetto, and said, “Those schools aren’t ghetto! I was working at this one school, and a girl got raped almost immediately after school. Now that’s ghetto.”
-Two people in my math class were talking about white girls who thought they were black getting pregnant at age four. The people listening to them seemed to think it was fine; they were laughing.
-A group of East Asian kids won this game in Spanish, and one student, obviously trying to be funny, yelled “That doesn’t count! They’re Asian!”
-Any time an East Asian student does something, it’s “because they’re Asian.”
-The n-word is used a lot here by some black students, but if any non-black person calls them out on it, that non-black is just being rude “because they’re black.”
There are probably more, but I can’t think of any more right now. I’ll give you some later.
P.S.: In retrospect, these actually don’t seem all that “stunning”. Oh, well; everyone’s entitled to a bit of hyperbole now and then! 😀
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The serpentus formerly known as calculator.
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Speaking of ignorance:
http://www.angrywhitedude.com/
See if they can be converted.
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Abagond
How do you put up pictures with your new posts? I’m at the dashboard, and I don’t know how to put up a picture with my new post.
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thank you Halisi.
I shudder at “our” letting the way we use the word “ghetto” become mainstram.
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Announcement for the whole world!
I just started a new blog (hence the name change). You can find me through Abagond’s Links Tab.
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😎
LMAO – this person reminds me of a certain individual who frequently posts here:
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…and one for the road…
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Come to the dark side–we have free cookies.
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Story Time:
A woman and her roommate were asleep in the middle of the night in complete darkness. One of them thought she heard a noise. She was conflicted about turning on the light. She turned on her side and her arm hung over the edge of her bed. She felt her dog lick her hand. Content that if the dog was O.K. then everything was O.K., she fell asleep.
In the morning, she horrifyingly discovered her rommate’s dismembered and cut up body with arms and legs scattered about. As she slowly made it to the bathroom, she turned on the light to see her skinned dog hanging by the ceiling of the bathroom. On the bathroom wall, written in dog’s blood were the words:
AREN’T YOU GLAD YOU DIDN’T TURN ON THE LIGHTS?
Coming to a traumatizing realization, it was not the dog who licked her hand–it was the killer!
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Surprising Way Race Colors Attitudes To Health Care Reform
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/03/08/race-health-care-reform_n_832783.html
“The racial bias that I looked at is a construct called racial resentment, it’s the idea that the reason why blacks don’t get ahead in society is because they don’t work hard enough,” said Daniel Byrd, research director at the Greenlining Institute. “Obama isn’t affecting their attitudes towards the healthcare reform law, it’s more about the idea that blacks may be getting something they don’t deserve.”
This video is satire people. Thought I’d mention that considering a lot of the commenters didn’t get that.
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“Obama isn’t affecting their attitudes towards the healthcare reform law, it’s more about the idea that blacks may be getting something they don’t deserve”,
This is something which I personally always find funny in good ole USA. There are really people who think that in society, in their country, there are people who really do not deserve a health care. I mean, really?
If you stop and think about it.
Somebody does not deserve health care.
What was the oath the doctors take? The Oath of Hippocrates? Don’t they promise to help all mankind and ALL people in need? Yes they do. I mean, they should. But once again, when health care is business, money talks and BS walks. And those poors walk out the door escorted by that burly security guard or local cops.
But really: a society where some people do not deserve health care? I mean, what kind of society is that? What happened to the idea that we are all humanbeings and we all have basic humanrights?
How the heck the people around the globe deserve medical help after an earthquake but not those guys who live couple miles down the road??
Can somebody explain that logical leap for me?? 😀
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@zek j evets
Dude, I was visiting your blog recently. Posting a comment is harder than a Calculus problem!
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sam asked, “Can somebody explain that logical leap for me??”
There is a formal as well as a fiscal explanation.
Rights, as defined, are freedoms endowed by the Creator to the individual. In the US these are enumerated in the Constitution. They do not cost money nor incur liabilities in others for your benefit.
Health care is not a freedom and it does costs money which often has to be extracted from others.
Therefore it’s not considered a “right”.
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I agree with Sam about US health care system. It’s atrocious. The kind people expect to see in a poor, oppressive system, not in the, you know, richest and the most powerful country in the world.
Ok, I admit, I grew up in culture where everybody had health care. It went without saying, along with education (from elementary school to graduating from university).
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It’s in every country’s best interest to keep their people educated and healthy. Particularly if the country takes pride in calling itself civilised.
An efficient health care system is not about “healing”, medication, surgery etc. It’s about prevention.
There’s loads of money to be made from sick people, so why would a system that’s based on private, for-profit entities make any effort on prevention and educating people about healthy lifestyles? There are a lot of sticky fingers in the chain just waiting for the next patient who dragged an illness out until costly therapy becomes indispensable (at least according to the medical and pharmaceutical industry).
This is not about “taking from the wealthy to give to the needy”. This is quite cynically about potentially losing profits.
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Just an add-on. One thing people should always keep in mind is that they could be next. Nobody is invulnerable.
I’ve seen people cry crocodile tears when they were hit with some nasty disease and the private insurance refused to pay for therapy or found some bogus excuse like a “preexisting condition”. Insurance they’ve paid many thousands for over decades.
Anybody could be next.
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I didn’t become so race conscious until I realized just how connected politics is to race. That truly disturbs me. Red, blue, Democrat, Republican, liberal, conservative… I don’t care. Race doesn’t belong in politics. Once you intertwine the two ppl become tribal and society becomes ugly. America is showing its disgusting face.
____________________
Black America is not a threat to White America. Black people don’t want to take anything away from Whites. If you analyze the numbers without bias, this becomes all too clear.
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“Can somebody explain that logical leap for me??”
well, we kind of have this thing here where we feel like everyone needs to pull their own weight. So the idea is that people who don’t work don’t really deserve health care.
And the idea is that “if I go to work every day and bust my ass so I can afford health care than everyone else needs to do the same or they can f*ck right off.”
It’s an overly simplistic and idealistic view of things but there it is. American’s have a way of ignoring the simple fact that we are all interconnected and couldn’t exist as a society without each other. We like to pretend that we are rugged individuals who rise or fall by our own hand. The reality is of course that we are both individuals AND part of an interdependent group. We can’t seem to be able to reconcile the fact that those two realities exist at the same time. Everyone likes to believe that it’s got to be either one or the other for some reason. Mostly I think it’s because we’re scared sh*tless of socialism and communism. So anything that even remotely smells like putting the group ahead of individual freedom gets thrown out.
And while we’re bickering about that stuff it’s not even the real issue. The real problem isn’t how we pay for health care, it’s why is it so godd*mn expensive in the first place. I wouldn’t mind my tax money going to health care for those who can’t afford it if it wasn’t so outrageously over inflated to begin with.
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Re: US healthcare – see this BBC article.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-12674976
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Mostly I think it’s because we’re scared sh*tless of socialism and communism.
I guess it might be true. That’s the only explanation for the fact Americans (who praise human rights and freedom above all) do not consider the right to life and health care, you know, a basic human right.
Sure, the idea of “I work, and some lazy fuc.ers benefit” doesn’t seem “fair”, but let’s take a look at said “lazy person” (who might not be lazy at all, but that’s another story). What is his benefit? A benefit to be treated and cured, a benefit to stay alive. Is that so much for somebody to “give” to his fellow citizen of USA? Isn’t that, you know, a humane, fair thing to do, without asking anything in return?
This might sound selfish, but before people ask what they can do for their country, I think they should ask what their country can do for them. If the country sucks, you can move. It’s not like you HAVE TO be loyal to it or to blindly follow it. (This goes for all countries in the world). I’d say a country that can’t provide a health care for its people (and it’s not a poor country!) sucks, just like a country that can’t provide even basic economic stability, or peace.
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Just in case, if by chance anybody has seen anything in this case, please come forward. There are phone numbers at the end of the page
http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/standard/article-23929367-man-stabbed-to-death-in-street-hated-conflict-says-his-sister.do
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I’m glad they caught this POS – too bad it was only an individual who won’t roll over on his entire ‘organization’…
http://www.seattlepi.com/local/6420ap_us_mlk_parade_explosive.html
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Mostly I think it’s because we’re scared sh*tless of socialism and communism.
It’s called cutting off our nose to spite you face.
& to an extent some working and middle class people believe that NAMS will take advantage of the system. So they would rather do without than see some NAM getting help.
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When I was on vacation in Chicago, I was knocked down by a car, along with another woman. This was on a red light! It was pouring rain to boot. Anyhow, the cops showed up an hour later, I spoke to the woman, and the man who knocked us down on a red light. Two things struck me, the woman, who was coming from work, was terrified lest she suffered delayed reaction as she didn’t have insurance. They asked me where I was from. I told them I was from Canada. They told me I was lucky as we have ‘free health care’ there. The man who knocked us down offered the woman and me cab fare to get to our destination. The man offered her ten dollars, but she began to have pains in her back and neck. The more intense the pain, the higher the amount the man offered her. She ended up with about fifty bucks. He offered me money but I declined.
The police finally arrived and took our respective statements. The thing I found to be strange in this instance was the fact that they didn’t test this man to see if he was impaired. They just wrote tickets, or statements, took our ids, gave it back and that was it. Apparently there was a court date on it. Needless to say I did not return to go to court. Whenever I go down there be it for a day or several weeks, I always purchase medical insurance as I do not want to incur the fees which can lead to penury! Fortunately I was not injured. A parting gift from the Yanks!
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Herneith
I hope you keep that man’s information just in case you experience in injury in the future. The officer gave you the guys information and tickets so you could file a lawsuit against him if need be.
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@chic noir
What’s a NAM? I know what you mean by that acronym, but what does it stand for?
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Okay I am a bit blog backwards, so I’m gonna try italicizing for the first time. NAM
This ish better work!
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NAM–Non-Asian Minority.
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Is it my imagination or are the much ballyhooed Charlie Sheen “Goddesses” just White and blond?
They look (to me) like they fall into the average, or just above average range, but they are referred to, first by Charlie, and then by the media as, “Goddesses” and nobody seems to bat an eyelash.
It’s an amazing example of how far Whiteness and blondness will go, even without particularly good looks.
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Flippin awesome! Italicized virginity broken!!! Hooray! 🙂
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Charly Sheen needs a woman like this:
She’d keep him in line for sure!
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@king- Denise Richards was much better looking than wither of the two. Actually I’m surprised Abagond didn’t include Denise in his lists because she is/was very pretty. She has the type of eyes that Abagond likes.
One of his two “goddess” isn’t so bad but the other is a bit plain looking.
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@ Herneith:
Holy crap! I am in both shock and awe about what happened to you! I’m glad you are okay, but so freaking scary!
@ King:
I never understood it either. These so-called goddesses aren’t all that.
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lolrof@Herneith
I love that clip 🙂
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I really need some good info/research on Brazilian dance. Thad would probably know but he’s banned. I’d apprecate it very much.
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Herneith! Lol! You should have beat the man that hit you with his car like that! Glad to hear you’re OK.
THESE aren’t goddesses… are they?
Oh how the might have fallen…
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The guy kept going even as there was a woman across the street screaming for him to stop, I was shouting for him to stop also, luckily he was driving slowly. All and all a bizarre occurrence. The only side effects I suffered was that I cuss more now, and I was quite the vulgarian with a Troopers command of expletives before! I don’t understand why he wasn’t tested for for being impaired. I mean the meaning of red lights are universal aren’t they? As for a lawsuit, I couldn’t be bothered going through all that as I wasn’t injured physically. Nope, I prefer to look at the absurdity in a situation. That I walked away relatively unscathed I am truly thankful for!
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@king- and neither is a natural blonde.
Check out denise Richards in “wild things”, she had dark hair and was much younger and a real knock out then.
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@Herneith
Thanks be to God at least you’re still alive!
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Herneith
Thanks be to God at least you’re still alive!
agreed.
Lets make a toast guys to herneith’s health.
*chic noir sends off waiter Chuck to get a bottle of wine & glasses*
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Abagond
Did you get my e-mail?
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I always thoughed that in order to be a Blonde, you MUST not be a natural blonde. I mean, if you just happen to be blonde, whats the big deal? BUT if you are a Blonde, like Marilyn, Jean Harlow, countless others, then you are the Blonde. So being a Blonde is all about being at least a bit un natural.
Up here we have loads of natural blondes but we also have the Blondes and there is a huge difference in ones behavior. Natural blondes act naturally, live normal lives, but the Blondes do not, usually that is. Of course we’ve had natural blondes who have gone Blonde, that is bleached their naturally blonde hair even blonder, and thus, have become a Blonde.
Does somebody else think I’m not making sense here, because I do? 😀
About health care: well, I always think it is funny when american superstars and politicians are running the super hero capes fluttering to help the poor in some third world country after natural disasters and shout out loud how important it is to get some basic health care over there, for christsake, but then, few kilometers away where they live, people are dying for easily treatable diseases because “everyone has to pull their weight”!
Also, Canada chose the national healthcare system because it was cheaper for the national economy on the whole than US style private system. Simply because in private business model it is about making money and less effective in the big picture. And the system works something like this:
person takes an insurance for x dollars, the hospital charges its expenses from the insurance company with a healthy margin of profit, and the insurance company rises the payments because they also have to make a healthy margin of profit, and the person has to pay more, and then again the hospital charges even more from the insurance company, which again rises the payments etcetcetc. Costs are skyrocketing like good old Apollo rockets. Untill, person has no more money to pay and insurance company tells that schmuck that your insurance policy has been cancelled or untill this poor person goes to hospital and the insurance company tells him to shove it because he is costing too much for them. That has happened for thousands of americans.
And, like we all know, a sick individual is not a good consumer nor he is a good worker. So it is really costing for the economy in more ways than one.
Also, do we have a right to health care? I think we do. I think that society exists only for us, not the other way around. The only thing we need society is that it gives us security and takes care of us when we ourselves can not do so. That is why I pay taxes.
I give money for the state to take care of me in case I need that. I do not give money for my state so that they can send finnish soldiers to the other side of the world to fight in some war we do not have any stake. I do not give money for the state so that the politicians can steal it, like they have done. Which pisses me off but is another discussion.
I think that the state can not tell me what to do, how to live, what to eat, where to go, where to live, how to live etc. It is there for me in case I need it. It should not be there for any other reason than take care of those of us who can not. Somebody said that you can see how civilized a country is by looking how it treats its children, sick, elderly and prisoners.
Maybe I am a communist?? 😀
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Maybe I am a communist??
You’re not. There were never really such a thing as a communist, since communism didn’t really exist anywhere.
You might be a socialist, but it’s ok. One thing (American) people don’t get is that the bad thing about socialism is not that it’s so horrible and oppressive beyond words: quite the contrary, it’s too good to be true. Unlike capitalism, that (rightfully) assumes people only care about themselves, socialism assumes people work for each other AND the state, just of the sake of the fact “it’s the right and rightful thing to do”. It doesn’t work like that in reality.
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sam,
You say the state can’t tell you what to do. Yet, you would have the state tax everyone to support additional “rights” such as healthcare.
If this happens, why can’t the state then further compel people to lead healthy lifestyles to ensure a good return on the taxpayer’s investment?
Why should I have to subsidize someone who drinks, smokes, and eats excessively, thus vastly outconsuming healthcare benefits relative to their contributions?
In your model, the consumers are free but the contributors are not. Is that fair?
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@randy: I know it is hard for guy like you but we can talk about money here first.
You say that you do not want to pay somebody elses health care, right? Ok. Then why on earth you want to pay billions for a war that has nothing to do with the 911 attacks on your country? The War in Irak was like that and it did cost hell of a lot more than any frigging health care plan around. I assume you did not complain about the costs of that way. Also, are you willing to pay the costs of wounded soldiers? If you are then why? They are not taking care of themselves are they? No. They live on your tax money.
“You say the state can’t tell you what to do. Yet, you would have the state tax everyone to support additional “rights” such as healthcare.
If this happens, why can’t the state then further compel people to lead healthy lifestyles to ensure a good return on the taxpayer’s investment?”.
Because this is not business. It is not an investment for profit only. Besides, we already pay taxes on cigarettes and alchohol to cover these health costs, should they come up.
“In your model, the consumers are free but the contributors are not. Is that fair?”
Yes it is, because contributors get the same health care too.
But the most important thing is this: is it ok that those who can not pay for health care die because of lack of it? You seem to think so. Not that you are the only one.
I think this is not a question of commercial aspects or money, but a human right. Do all humans have a right for health care or only those who can afford it? That is the question.
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@ Randy.
“Why should I have to subsidize someone who drinks, smokes, and eats excessively, thus vastly outconsuming healthcare benefits relative to their contributions?”
but we’re already doing that now and have been since way before Obama’s plan. But see while were arguing over this stuff the real reasons health care is so expensive are as follows…
http://healthinsurance.about.com/lw/Business-Finance/Personal-finance/Why-is-Health-Insurance-So-Expensive-.htm
“Administrative costs. America’s patchwork of thousands of private insurers, each with different rules, and a massive government-backed Medicare system for the elderly and Medicaid for the poor, each with slightly different rules and payouts in different states, load the system with a huge amount of paperwork.
A 2005 study led by researchers at the University of California at San Francisco found that administrative costs chewed up 25% of the nation’s health care spending. Data generated by private insurers, doctors’ offices and hospitals showed that insurers spent 10% of their premiums on billing, marketing and profit, and doctors spent 14% of their incomes on insurance paperwork.
Legal concerns. Fear of malpractice suits causes U.S. physicians to order more tests and diagnostic procedures than are ordered in most other countries, driving overall costs higher.
Provider power. Partly because no single insurer holds enough market power to impose cost controls, American hospitals, physicians and other providers tend to be able to set higher prices on specific services than providers in countries with more concentrated insurance systems. Consumers, who are typically poorly informed about the true level of their medical costs, also tend to do a poor job of shopping around or researching less-expensive treatment options.
Supply. Though Americans typically consume more of the highest-priced medical procedures over the course of their lives, fewer hospitals, doctors and high-tech machines are in the US per capita than in most industrialized countries. Universal health coverage in those countries tends to drive up the demand for basic services, which drives up their supply and lowers their cost.”
_____________________
this is all stuff that liberals and conservatives should be able to find common ground on and fix but it doesn’t happen because we’re to busy being ideologues. Bickering about sh*t that doesn’t even address the real costs. the real drain on our paychecks.
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I don’t see what maintaining a country’s people in good health has to do with socialism. As mentioned, it’s in everybody’s best interest that citizens are healthy.
There are countries where the health insurances are in private hands but work on a non-profit basis, subsidised by the state in case of losses. (Mind you, non-profit does not mean that the employees of those companies work for free or for less than in other insurance sectors). By law, these insurances neither have the right to refuse payment nor patients because of “preexisting conditions”. The monthly rates are affordable for everybody who is employed (about $250-300) and for the unemployed the state pays.
The insurances are in direct competition with each other since the better their performance, ie. prevention, quality of service, innovation, cost optimised therapy etc, the more money is left for further expansion and optimisation and the more subsidies they can expect. Any surplus within a certain period has to be paid back to the state.
The fact that they are in competition boosts the efforts in keeping health care the cheapest and most innovative possible. Nobody wants to lose their jobs, so even though it’s non-profit they bust their arses to stay in the game.
Everybody who actively works in this system will get paid. However what this system does not have are fat cats (speculators, bankers etc) sitting in the background expecting big profit for doing nothing, except for shifting money back and forth.
Making profit from illness without providing any health related service is cynical and uncivilised.
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I’d seen these pictures before, but wanted to put the article here. With the overwhelming topics on genetics lately, I think this is something worth noting:
http://www.hoax-slayer.com/black-white-twins.html
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@Sepultura13
If this isn’t a hoax, British folks must have some strange stuff goin on with their genes!
These twins are hot!
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@ sepultura
quick! someone give them an IQ test!
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@ Chic Noir:
You are right: I do like Denise Richards and it is mainly her eyes.
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@jason: 😀 Yeah, and fast too!
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I believe in order things like this to happen (and they do happen), both parents need to be mixed. So it does happen, only it’s very rare.
The Cynic,
Nice video. But they both look white to me.
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Denise Richards looks cheap and generic, in lack of better terms. I am sure she is a smart and nice lady, but her image is such that doesn’t make her seem like a real person, more like a (sexy) doll or something.
Of course, none of this excuses what that %^$#$%#% Charlie Sheen did to her.
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LOL @ The Cynic
I was thinking the same thing! 😎
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@ olufemi:
I don’t see what maintaining a country’s people in good health has to do with socialism. As mentioned, it’s in everybody’s best interest that citizens are healthy.
Not exactly. It’s not in the interest of the pharmaceutical and health insurance corporations.
And it’s not in the interest of those wealthy people who want to have even more money but don’t care if poor people have to die for it.
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@ The Cynic:
If this isn’t a hoax, British folks must have some strange stuff goin on with their genes!
Not really. All it takes is for at least one parent to be mixed. To say that “one is black and one is white” says more about societal construction of race than it does about them. The “black” one looks more like her sister than she resembles a black African.
@ jas0nburns:
quick! someone give them an IQ test!
Too funny, dude. You’ve clearly been hanging out here too long!
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“You’ve clearly been hanging out here too long!”
I know right?
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Speaking of genes…check this out:
http://www.kgw.com/lifestyle/health/FDA-looks-to-crack-down-on-mail-order-genetic-tests-117704183.html
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Who cares about them? It’s not about the fat cats, it’s about people’s health without an economy can’t function.
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lol only in America… 😉
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Speaking of genes…check this out:
http://www.kgw.com/lifestyle/health/FDA-looks-to-crack-down-on-mail-order-genetic-tests-117704183.html
And I knew someone will see a conspiracy theory behind this! (Check the first comment)
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Here’s a colon clogging burger for you! Get it into ya Yanks!
Eat now, pay later!
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Does anyone have any good information/research on Capoeira–a form of Brazilian mixed martial arts/dance? I would appreciate it very much.
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@ Serpentus
The terrible/awesome capoeira film “Only the strong” is on Netflix streaming.
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@jas0nburns
Thank you. I appreciate it. But I do not have a Netflix subscription = (
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jas0nburns,
I completely agree with you that the onerous administrative burden and lack of price transparency with our current health care system can and should be addressable from a bipartisan standpoint.
But given that sam asked a more philosophical question, I answered along those lines.
sam,
Despite your ad-hominem comments, I’ll attempt to address your arguments.
“Besides, we already pay taxes on cigarettes and alchohol to cover these health costs, should they come up. “
That’s speculative at best, and doesn’t address the effects of poor diet and lack of exercise. Lifestyle diseases are now the primary cause of death in the west.
The social contract which you propose requires a balance of responsibilities to be effective. Otherwise what you’ll have is a classic “tragedy of the commons.”
I shouldn’t have to shoulder the extra burden for your poor lifestyle choices, nor you for mine. Contracts are two-way streets.
If a person desires total freedom for themselves, then they cannot demand that others give up any of theirs.
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BREAKING NEWS!!!
Black woman jailed for sending kids to a better school.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/01/27/kelley-williams-bolar-schools_n_814857.html
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A black gangster plays a Ku Klux Klan member in a game of chess.
http://s3.amazonaws.com/data.tumblr.com/tumblr_lf0x8xZwMV1qaclxyo1_1280.jpg?AWSAccessKeyId=0RYTHV9YYQ4W5Q3HQMG2&Expires=1299922325&Signature=FyFm8B7crRMJGJkzeUJqHojEAvM%3D
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@randy: well, according to our ministery of finance, the high taxes on alchohol and cigarettes is precisely because they cover the health problems if need be. I have no idea about the USA.
I understand your idea, the way you see this thing, but for me this is not about you scratch my and I scratch yours. If I pay this you do that. This is about social justice and human rights.
Is it ok for you that your neighbour, because he/she is so stupid or such an looser that he hasn’t make enuff money, to die because of it?
Is it ok to look how somebody dies just because he/she can not afford the treatment?
Is it ok to condemn the poor to die earlier because they can not afford to proper health care?
Where do we draw the line? Who can die and who not? What if, for some reason, you would loose your ability to make money and got seriously sick? Would it still be ok for you to die just because you have no money for treatment? And remember, insurance companies have denied the payments in the past even from people who have been paying for them for decades.
But, of course, if you think it is ok to just look and watch as people die despite there is a cure or treatment, but not for them, then we are truly at the opposite edges. I have seen people die and if there is anything to save anyone, it should be done. Despite that some selfish rightwing ding dong complains about the bill. We are talking about human lives here, not sausages.
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sam,
Sorry to burst your bubble here, but every nation on earth assigns a monetary value to human life. They have to, as there’s only so much money to go around.
I’m not arguing against social safety nets, only against unfair and unsustainable ones.
Social obligations are a two-way street. If you can compel me to pay for your heart operation, why can’t I compel you to eat broccoli instead of cheeseburgers?
Fundamentally speaking, you cannot be completely free while also being dependent upon others. A balance must be struck. Where to set the balance point in any society is a fair topic for debate.
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@Randy.
Your right, you can’t be completely free while dependent on others. Which is why I support taxing the rich. Rich people are just as dependent on society as those on welfare because without society, you can’t get rich.
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@ serpentus
man you scared me. she only got 9 days.
I was about to start making signs
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@ Randy Garver:
I shouldn’t have to shoulder the extra burden for your poor lifestyle choices, nor you for mine. Contracts are two-way streets.
So if I eat too many cheeseburgers and get heart disease, you shouldn’t have to pay for my operation. Ok, fine. So what if my car’s brakes fail and I crash into a tree – should the public cover my health care or is that my fault? How about if my “lifestyle choice” is to hang out at a bar, where one day some drunk goon assaults me and I have permanent brain damage – do I deserve taxpayer-funded care or was it my poor choice to hang out in a place where that could possibly happen? What if my young son climbs a tree and falls out of it – his poor lifestyle choice?
Once you embrace the logic of blame to people’s sickness, where does it stop?
It’s interesting as well that the same people who vehemently oppose public healthcare in the US are usually the same people who oppose public health campaigns (like Michelle Obama’s) which are designed to get people eating healthier.
It’s weird that a country like the US that is allegedly founded on the teachings of Jesus Christ can so wholeheartedly embrace a mentality of self-centred individualism.
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Eurasian Sensation,
As I mentioned to sam, each society can and should decide where the bounds of personal and societal responsibilities lie.
However, to say that society has 100% responsibility while each person has 0% responsibility seems fundamentally unfair and unbalanced, and ultimately unsustainable.
The obesity epidemic alone is a nigh-inevitable fiscal time bomb which will affect all national health care systems sooner or later.
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Well part of the problem with the obesity epidemic is that it’s imposed by society in a lot of ways. I don’t mean to say that people don’t have free will. But the way things are set up right now in society people are kind of guided into being obese instead of guided into a healthy lifestyle. I mean it’s one thing to have the personal willpower to push back against the current and go out of your way to live healthy but most people just go with the flow. It used to be that life just didn’t allow people to get that fat unless they were wealthy. It’s just the opposite now.
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My grandmother was a nurse and for her to work in healthcare for a fairly small salary and to help people was a vocation, an honour.
It’s not about “assigning” a monetary value. The only fact we need to look at is that health care is not free to begin with, human resources being the biggest cost factor. Staff needs to be paid for the (hopefully competent) service they provide. The only relevant figure in this is the actual cost of the whole medical supply chain, including investments for R&D, public education, prevention, renovation, maintenance etc. Profit = 0. That’s what a health care system is ought to cost.
The culprit is the adjacent industries which are based on obscene profit making, with product margins in the pharma industry of sometimes several thousand percent and a huge following of sticky fingers in banks and at the stock exchange. Big pharma (Phizer, Glaxo, Novartis etc) only reinvest a small fraction of their revenue in R&D but astronomical amounts for marketing. Sell, sell, sell is the slogan, not heal, prevent and educate. That is a fact, published for everybody to read in hard figures.
The real cost of health is not determined at the hospital, specialised clinics, rehabs, the chemist’s, not to mention the good old GP. The (mainly private) health industry is a cynical gambling ground at the investment casinos. It’s a pyramid scheme that not only tolerates but actually induces squandering and overconsumption of pharma products, especially when private profit-oriented insurances are in bed with the rest of the bunch. Transparent control mechanisms are virtually non-existent. Why would anybody influential in this swamp blow the whistle if no outsider can look behind the scenes anyway?
The cost of all the BS is rolled over to the consumer, aka the sick person, due to the absurd number of intermediates who add no utter value to the health system itself. Profit makers in the health system are a liability, a bit like parasites. That is, for all citizens.
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@randy: you are right about the obesity thing but forget one thing: it is mostly because of the food industry. The obesity levels have followed almost one to one the rise of fast food industry, snacks and other crap they call food.
Also if you look at how industry guides consuming by price fixing thing come clear: healthy meat costs way more than almost poisonus sausages, snacks and other shit. I always have been wondering how it is possible that chunks of pure meat can be more expensive than troughly processed meat products, but some how the industry manages to do that. And increase the number of people who eat unhealthy.
The amount of chemicals and supplements, un-natural substances and ingredients in our foods is alarming. From genemanipulated stuff to hormone meats, from chemical aromes and syntehtic colours etc. And all this really dangerous stuff is always cheaper than pure clean food. Why? Should these big companies pay for the damages they have and are causing? Why they get away from the responsibility?
By the way, you do not need to force me to eat broccoli, I eat it already and like as well, just cook some a bit and sprinkle a bit of salt on top and it is perfect. I also go to the gym five days a week so… But I have to admit that I am a huge friend of good food etc. so I am not a fitness (read slimness) fanatic. 😀
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@ sam
Here’s a wild guess (probably not that wild after all). The upper management of the junk food and pharma industries concoct their recipes together over a pint or on the golf court. The former about how to clog up arteries, the latter how to unblock them again. Then they both work on one point they have in common – addiction!
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Wow – I think I like people who look like, well…people! Plastic freakshows have never done anything for me; then again, I’m not male so I don’t think with my genitalia! 😉
http://www.seattlepi.com/ae/gallery.asp?SubID=6476&page=1>itle=Celebrity%20Plastic%20Surgery&pubdate=3/10/11
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My heart is in Japan right now…the devastation is mind-boggling. 😦
I live in earthquake country.
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Yes sepultura13. Thoughts go out to Japan.
I have friends who were lucky enough to escape the 2004 tsunami in Indonesia. It must be absolutely terrifying.
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My friend was at Kaho Lak back then with her family. Barely made it. And now in Japan they have problems with nuclear powerplants too. Not good.
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Yes – looks like they have to evacuate 3,000 people near the Fukushima Daiichi nuclear plant because they can’t cool it down. They’ll have to vent some of the radioactive vapor to stave off a meltdown. Not good at all…
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And if that reactor gets out of hand, they will have their own Tshernobyl there. No good at all.
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I’ve heard that even a second reactor is in trouble.
(How does everyone like my gravatar?)
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My heart goes out to all those in Japan who have been affected by the earthquake and the tsunami.
Even though I have experienced natural disasters before, I cannot imagine what it must be like to go through this. I was in Japan just a few days ago and I feel lucky to have missed this, but unfortunately there are plenty of people who couldn’t have avoided it in any way…
It makes me angry too, if you see some of the racism it brings out of people towards the Japanese when there are human beings who have lost their homes, their families and their lives.
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@ Iris:
Yes, I’ve noticed some morons say what happened to the Japanese was payback for Pearl Harbor. Seriously?! The earthquake and tsunami have nothing to do with Pearl Harbor. Some people are very stupid in their thinking.
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lacromona check out this list of sites
http://www.forharriet.com/2011/02/45-must-follow-tumblrs-for-black-women.html#
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**Yes, I’ve noticed some morons say what happened to the Japanese was payback for Pearl Harbor. Seriously?! The earthquake and tsunami have nothing to do with Pearl Harbor. Some people are very stupid in their thinking.**
Yup, just like how some people blamed Hurricane Katrina on New Orleans’ gambling and immoral activities–oh wait, there’s also that in Las Vegas! Some people (indirectly) blamed that blacks’ gambling was what brought destruction to New Orleans instead of poorly mismanaged funds for upgrading the levees.
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@ leigh204
Yes, I’ve seen that too. I don’t know how thick they have to be to think that. I don’t understand how anyone can believe that someone deserved to suffer an earthquake and a tsunami because of something terrible their people had done in the past. It is like saying that everyone who died in 9/11 deserved it because Americans enslaved Black people in the past.
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Yes, I’ve noticed some morons say what happened to the Japanese was payback for Pearl Harbor.
*Cough* Hiroshima and Nagasaki *Cough*
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http://www.fxckfeelings.com/
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lacramona
check this out
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Oh my goodness! If I get one more person asking me about anything related to Japan i.e. earthquake, tsunami, and nuclear plant meltdowns, I’m going to scream! I’m not Japanese for gosh sakes!
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Abagond,
I would love to see you deconstruct Vanessa William’s song ‘Colors of the Wind’. I was just listening to it and thought it was fascinating because the words clearly state what many talk about on this blog but in a melodic way. It’s also fascinating because it was produced by Disney which tries hard to remain uncontroversial but the lyrics of this song many Whites would dismiss or label as delusional, misguided and controversial.
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I need help logging into my blog. The admin link isn’t there.
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http://serpentus.wordpress.com/wp-admin/
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But Leigh, if you’re not Chinese by default (as “all Asians are”), then you’re probably Japanese! As a last ditch effort to figure out what you are though, you HAVE to be Korean. As those are the only three Asian groups in the world.
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@Serpentus:
You can also click onto your blog homepage link, scroll down on the side bar with categories etc. When you get to the heading ‘META’, you will see ‘Log In’ as a sub-heading. Click on that heading and it will take you to the sign in screen. Sign in and proceed.
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Abagond,
Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you so much. Thank you a million times! I can’t thank you enough.
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O.K., I have a HUGE problem. I usually do most of my work on my laptop, but it recently got infected with viruses. I’m on another computer right now.
When I got first got my laptop 3 years ago, antivirus protection was pretty steep ($80-$200), so it was decided to forgo the antivirus protection (along with Microsoft Word, but that’s another story).
I did some research, and found AVAR, a free antivirus protection one can download online. (I should’ve done it when I first got my laptop.) Anyway, I’ve been a safe internet surfer, but it finally caught up to me. In the middle of downloading the free antivirus software, my computer shuts off. I’m having a hard time downloading the antivirus; I think it must be because of the viruses.
I’m a college student; I don’t have any money so I can’t purchase anything. If anyone here is good with computers, I would like some suggestions on how to get rid of the viruses on my computer.
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Do you do a lot of streaming of videos? Many of them contain viruses! Some free anti-virus programs I would advise are:
AVG
http://free.avg.com/ca-en/homepage
Avast
http://www.avast.com/en-ca/index
Try to start your computer in safe mode, install the anti-virus and run it. If this doesn’t work then you may have to take it in and have a technician look into it. Being a student, you may be able to purchase a reputable anti-virus program at half price:
http://us.norton.com/student_campaign.jsp
Norton has had a bad rap for slowing down computer speed but it has been improved greatly and now has little or no effect on the computer’s speed. If you wish to shop around, look up free programs or student discount security software on the internet. I use Norton Internet Security. When downloading from the internet, I download an item to my desktop and run a virus scan before opening it. I have had no virus infestations to date. This program also has a site safety component to it. Should you have to replace your computer, you may have to purchase a program as most of the ‘free’ ones have poor ratings when it comes to detecting viruses.
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Herneith,
Thanks. I’ll try your suggestions.
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Abagond,
I took a chance making this comment on such quite an old post. Since I am sure you did not see it there, I’ll re-post part of it here:
You might have already posted a link up thread, but where is the proof/study that
“Present-day Egyptians are, by blood, about 60% Eurasian, like the Arabs who took over their country, and 40% black African.”
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@ Serpentus
Another program that is simply fantastic is Malwarebytes. It’s a really good (and most importantly FREE) program that focuses on Malware, adds a 2nd layer of protection, and picks up anything that your primary anti-virus could miss. Like the new Norton or (Symantec) it doesn’t slow down your computer in the least bit. With those two things, you should have NO problems with viruses.
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@Franklin:
When I mentioned I wasn’t Japanese, those people had to run down a list of Asian ethnicities and then say “Well, you all look the same so what would it matter?” Grrrr.
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@leight 204
Do Asians look at white people and say that they’re all the same because they look alike? Or is it just whites that do that to Asians?
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Omfg… the things ppl will list under -isms now-a-days!!!
NEWSFLASH: If a man isn’t attracted to you bc your skin is as black as tar that does not mean he hates you or himself. That is not the definition of colorism. He just has a preferences, no different than all of the other superficial preferences we ALL have(hair color, height, facial features, body type etc.)
I hate BW who delude themselves into believing that they are single bc of some black male deficiency. Their are FEW women who truly can’t find a date bc their skin is too dark. Most men have low standards anyways. Stop blame-shifting. Start the process of introspection and realize something is probably wrong with YOU!
Light skin b****es w/ curly hair and green eyes are NOT destroying the Black community. We have bigger problems to worry about.
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^I needed somewhere to vent. Some Black woman just blocked me from a youtbe video for opposing a view she had. Black ppl have beat this “colorism” issue like a dead horse, I swear. There are so many issues in the world and ppl think skin color attraction is a problem???
____________
Btw I can’t believe we’ve gotten ourselves into another conflict. Why the heck are we doing air-strikes in Libya? I’m tired of my gvmnt thinking the US is the police of the world
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@cynic: well your goverment is not alone, some euroweenies are in it too.
WTF? And what is this war crap anyhow?? Seems to me that these days countries just go to war just like that, you know, like: hey, lets do little warring there, hey! Lets bomb that place a bit. Lets send in some commandoes, hey.
We are talking about wars here! Not frigging pick nicks!
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@ The Cynic
Something must be up if so many black women are complaining about black men’s colorism. “Where’s there’s smoke, there’s fire.”
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@ The Cynic
As Abagond has previously informed us, blacks represent about 6% of television–I’m willing to bet that there are similar numbers for other media outlets such as magazines and movies.
Do NOT tell me that black men are not color-struck–because they are. There is no way black men can grow up in America and not end up having some attraction toward white women. Since I’m not a black man or a black woman, I have no stake in the issue, and I can provide a more objective look on this issue.
I did a post on whether black men worship white women:
http://serpentus.wordpress.com/2011/03/12/do-black-men-worship-white-women/.
As I have previously written:
“American standards of beauty are Euro-centric. So, white women overwhelmingly appear in every magazine ad, television commercial, fashion show, and Hollywood movie. It is not the black man’s fault. My hypothesis is that most men are brainwashed by society to “prefer” white women. The black man is helpless against a barrage of everday images of beautiful white women.”
Furthermore,
“In 2008, almost 1 in 4 black men who got married tied the knot with a white woman.
Source: http://abcnews.go.com/WN/Media/black-women-marry-interracial-marriage-common/story?id=10830719.”
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@Serpentus
Read this comment I made last week on the “White man Zula” post.
and keep reading the discussion btwn Caculator and I until you get to this comment.
I’ve already discussed how people distort IR marriage statistics to fit their agendas and/or confirm their biases. Perception does not automatically equal reality.
p.s. My comment had nothing to do with whether Black men are color-struck or not.
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@Serpentus
A black blog entitled Verysmartbrothas already covered the Black athlete white woman myth. This is a much more thorough than your 5 examples.
“but when he gets on, he’ll leave your ass for a white girl…or not”
http://www.verysmartbrothas.com/but-when-he-gets-on-hell-leave-your-ass-for-a-white-girl-or-not/
Here is a great video about the media’s role in this.
Once again, I am not arguing whether BM have color preferences or not. All I am saying is that it’s a waste of time to whine about stuff like this. Why don’t I ever hear Brunettes crying about how white boys love blondes? Is this preference destroying the white community?
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Why don’t I ever hear Brunettes crying about how white boys love blondes?
Huh? Brunettes cry all the time. That’s why many of them become blondes. Most of the blondes are not natural blondes, after all.
Of course, I’m not saying it’s the same thing as black women and white women, but it’s not like brunettes don’t care about this. It’s just not as huge as racial issue so it might seem nonexistent, but it’s not like brunettes are unaware of the beauty standards that say blondes are more attractive.
As for Libya… I’m so angry I feel a sharp pain in my chest .
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@The Cynic
“I’ve already discussed how people distort IR marriage statistics to fit their agendas and/or confirm their biases.”
I don’t have an agenda nor am i distorting anything. What do I have to gain from this issue? Since I’m not black, colorism doesn’t affect me the way it affects black people, and I can perhaps provide a more objective view of this issue. Instead, my ideas are immediately rejected.
“All I am saying is that it’s a waste of time to whine about stuff like this.”
O.K., I’m not the one who first brought up the skin preference and colorism–you did.
“If a man isn’t attracted to you bc your skin is as black as tar that does not mean he hates you or himself. That is not the definition of colorism. He just has a preferences, no different than all of the other superficial preferences we ALL have(hair color, height, facial features, body type etc.)”
Hmm, and just where did he pick up those “preferences”? From mainstream racist beauty ideals? Are we all not affected in some way from what the media tells us?
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@Serpentus
I don’t have an agenda nor am i distorting anything. What do I have to gain from this issue?
I didn’t accuse you of having an agenda and I really don’t know what you could gain from this issue.
“O.K., I’m not the one who first brought up the skin preference and colorism–you did.
I wasn’t directing this towards you. I was just venting about the actual people who do whine about such a pointless issue.
“Hmm, and just where did he pick up those “preferences”? From mainstream racist beauty ideals? Are we all not affected in some way from what the media tells us?
It really doesn’t matter where it came from and I honestly can’t be sure. Many white men probably don’t know why their is a cultural preference for blonde hair in their culture. Might it stem from theories of a superior race of blonde hair blue eyed Aryans? Myths of white racial supremacy? If so, would that make it wrong for a white man to be attracted to blonde hair? Is his attraction to yellow hair a problem?
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” Many white men probably don’t know why their is a cultural preference for blonde hair in their culture.”
I actually prefer black hair on white women–I think it’s prettier. I just wish white women with black hair would stop lying to themselves by calling themselves brunettes–black-haired white women are NOT brunettes–they are raven-haired, even better.
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” actually prefer black hair on white women–I think it’s prettier. I just wish white women with black hair would stop lying to themselves by calling themselves brunettes–black-haired white women are NOT brunettes–they are raven-haired, even better”
I think bruennttes are awesome. Second, to reheads. But I’m biased. Blonde and Black hair are okay, but it has to be a certain type for me. I mean they’re both are just meh. Blue-black and strawberry blonde are cool, though. We brunettes rock!!!
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Serpentus
I can only speak of my personal experience, but I haven’t heard the Asians I know say that about white people. However, I’m not saying saying Asians haven’t said it. I just haven’t heard it yet.
And regarding blue black hair, I used to have that kind of hair color when I was younger. When my hair was in the sun, you could see the vivid blue tones. As I’ve aged, my once blue black hair has turned a brownish black.
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black-haired white women are NOT brunettes
Huh?
My hair was black when I was a kid… Now it’s a bit lighter, dark brown I’d say. And I even have gray hairs! But I still consider myself a brunette.
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People are free to call themselves what they want. However, this is how I classify hair color:
Yellow = Blonde
Brown = Brunette
Black = Raven-haired (an older term)
Red = [No special adjective/word yet]
(Yes, I know there are different shades of colors of blonde and brown like auburn, but these 4 are the main general colors.)
If one stretches the defintion of a Brunette to include ALL brown-and black-haired women, then ALL BLACK WOMEN would be called brunettes. Call me an American, but wouldn’t calling a black woman a brunette seem sort of.. I don’t know… weird and strange?
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On an interesting note, does anyone know where the word, “brunette” originated from? It’s quite old and dates back to at least the 18th century since I remember reading Voltaire’s Candide where the maid was mentioned to be a brunette.
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“And regarding blue black hair, I used to have that kind of hair color when I was younger. When my hair was in the sun, you could see the vivid blue tones. As I’ve aged, my once blue black hair has turned a brownish black.”
That’s so cool! You must’ve gotten along with the emo and goth crowd well in school.–lol
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Am I the only man in the world who finds freckles attractive on women?!
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Fight the power… with black power.
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As long as woman has shaved everything away and is not a porcelin I do not care what color her hair is, nor do I care if she is bald.
And heres a joke: a politician was praying just before the elections. “Dear God, give ME an understanding of the needs of the people and help me to work foR the people instead of myself. I want to be less selfish and honest, please God. Help me on this”. There was a long silence in the heavens and then came thundering and roar: “SON, EVEN I CAN’T DO EVERYTHING!”
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😀 it should read: as long as woman has NOT shaved everything away…
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Idk what it is about blondes that give them such a good rep. I’ve always preferred long jet-black hair. The texture doesn’t even matter. Kinky, curly, or straight. Even when it comes to white women, I think the brunettes/raven-haired ones(as Jas0n puts it) are the best looking.
and freckles are gross looking. Sorry =(
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I used to have black hair down to my butt when I was a kid (don’t remember if it was blue black though), but as I got older it got lighter (the same as my eyes). It’s now brown, but under bright light you can see more red in it and so it can look auburn.
I’ve always liked brown and black hair more than blonde. Red hair can be beautiful too.
Question for everyone: do you believe it is appropriate to refer to East Asian and South East Asians as ‘chinks’ and to their eye shape as ‘chinky’? I’ve seen the latter (‘chinky eyes’) mentioned several times on this site and, at the least, I could say I was surprised. I assume the ‘chink’ is also seen as no problem by the people who have used the description ‘chinky eyes’, seeing as that is where that comes from. I would think these sorts of words would be treated much the same way as the N-word as it is used in a similar fashion against East and South East Asians.
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@cynic: I don’t think this woman is that gross even though she has freckels. And she has a jet black hair and brown eyes and is really good looking too!!
http://www.dominosguide.com/makeup-tips-for-freckle-faced-femmes.html
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Hey! I have freckles! Not much, but I used to hate it… They are not what’s considered attractive.
But well, at least I’m a girl. It is said it’s even worse for a guy. Nobody likes guys with freckles. Now, I tend to agree with that, to an extend (doe to self-hate?) But there are guys who look ok with freckles; they suit them.
Like Cillian Murphy, for example. 😀
I never got the blonde hair appeal, really, but hey, I’m a girl (with dark hair) so what do I know?
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Question for everyone: do you believe it is appropriate to refer to East Asian and South East Asians as ‘chinks’ and to their eye shape as ‘chinky’?
Well, only Asians can answer this question (and determine whether it’s offensive to them or not), but it’s the first time I hear about Asian eyes being called that.
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Question for everyone: do you believe it is appropriate to refer to East Asian and South East Asians as ‘chinks’ and to their eye shape as ‘chinky’?
Disclaimer: I don’t have a personal stake in this because I’m the wrong type of Asian (we don’t usually have “chinky” eyes in Indonesia) and I’m only half one at that. But here’s what I think…
CHINK: Don’t be saying this sh*t unless you are referring to a chink in someone’s armour. It’s offensive.
CHINKY: This is not quite as bad. I’m not sure why. It’s still a bit wrong, but it’s the sort of word you could maybe get away with using. Maybe if you are one of those non-Asians who is down with Asians and they acknowledge you as an ally, they won’t mind you using adjectives like this in the right context.
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@Mira
No, need to worry. I think a little bit of freckles are okay & I’m just one little opinion in this world. Dark hair is still hot though! 🙂
@Iris
Question for everyone: do you believe it is appropriate to refer to East Asian and South East Asians as ‘chinks’ and to their eye shape as ‘chinky’?
I’ve always understood that term as being derogatory towards the Asian groups you mentioned. When I talk about the East and Southeast Asian eye form I usually say ‘epicanthic eye-fold’. The term may sound a bit nerdy, but at least I know I am not being offensive.
I must admit I have used the term chinky tho. I was making fun of a friend that has those kinds of eyes. However, he was black and I used the term jokingly. He wasn’t offended, so I didn’t feel bad using it then
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Iris: “Question for everyone: do you believe it is appropriate to refer to East Asian and South East Asians as ‘chinks’ and to their eye shape as ‘chinky’?”
The former seems to be universally perceived as derogatory.
As for the latter, my wife and her friends use the term “chinky” or “chinese-y” rather freely, but it may be significant to note that they’re mostly FOBs and have not yet been inoculated with western-style perpetual racial outrage.
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Speaking of Asian eyes, I wonder: is there a non-offensive term for Asian eyes except, well, to call them “Asian”?
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Speaking of female beauty, chic noir, tu es jolie.
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@Sam
Please don’t tell me that the stereotype about European men loving hairy women is true!
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“If one stretches the defintion of a Brunette to include ALL brown-and black-haired women, then ALL BLACK WOMEN would be called brunettes. Call me an American, but wouldn’t calling a black woman a brunette seem sort of.. I don’t know… weird and strange?”
No, not if it’s really brown. I don’t see why not. I consider myslef as a brunette because I have meduim-dark auburn hair. Is auburn considered red or brown ? I’m not sure.
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@Sam
That woman barely has any freckles at all! This is what I’m talking about:
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@ Iris:
Here’s my two cents. Personally, I don’t think it’s appropriate at all to refer to East/SE Asians as “chinks” and their “chinky” eyes. Why? I had white people call me that as well as other Asian racial slurs when I was growing up. It was a way to demean me. Not to mention, they would pull the corners of their eyes and say my “chinky” eyes were so slitty and do that annoying made up ching chong sh!t language. Wtf?!?! Anyway, the slur “chink” would be used for Chinese. Nevermind the fact, I’m a Filipina.
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@ serpentus:
I have some freckles on my face and body and I’m not exactly hapy with it. I grew up with the Filipino ideal to have clear, non-freckled skin. The coveted look is this look. Free from “imperfections.”
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@leigh204
“I have some freckles on my face and body and I’m not exactly hapy with it.”
Don’t let people force you to think their way! Women are beautiful with freckles.–A guy that loves freckles. = )
P.S. Is that a pic of what’s considered to be beautiful in the Phillipines? I’ll be honest, as a guy, I don’t think she’s hot or anything–barely average. She looks like she’s bleached her face! Either that or she’s powdered her face too much. I wouldn’t be interested in asking her out or anything.
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@leight204
I just noticed that the link to your pic was from crunchyroll. Are you also an anime fan?
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@ serpentus:
Thanks. I may not be happy with my freckles per se, but I’ve come to accept it as it’s a part of me. 🙂
She’s a well known Filipina actress. I was simply showcasing the desired complexion ideal in the Philippines…without freckling of any kind and an even skin tone. Btw, this pic is about her not wearing any or minimal make-up and that her great skin is what makes her “beautiful.”
No, I was only googling for pics. Why? Are you an anime fan?
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@serpentus: No finnish guys do not like hairy women. It is more of a generational thing. Younger guys go for that acient greek gay style where you have no hair in your body. Older guys like myself, we go for more natural women.
It does not mean that woman should have a beard and grow wool matt on her back, but it means that she can have some body hair and most definetly the pubic hair. No, it does not have to be a wild jungle bush look, but pubic hair is a must for a guy like me. 😀
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Thanks for the input, everyone. As someone who is half East Asian and half White, I have also had people hurl ‘chink’ and ‘chinky eyes’ at me and my family as a way to insult us and bring us down. They are both words I have often heard while enduring physical violence, which is why I was surprised to see it here.
From my experience, I feel that ‘chinky eyes’ is very similar to ‘chink’. I am not sure why the two are seen so differently when ‘chinky’ obviously comes from ‘chink’, which everyone appears to agree is unacceptable. If calling somebody a ‘chink’ is bad, why is saying someone has ‘chinky eyes’ (i.e. Eyes like a ‘chink’) okay? I mean, if ‘n*gger’ is a terrible word to use, I don’t think people would easily accept the word ‘n*ggery’ to describe a feature they believe is common to Black people!
‘Asian’ by itself is confusing because, for example, in Britain it is used to refer to South Asians (Indian, Pakistani, Sri Lankan, Bangladeshi, etc.). Small eyes, single eyelids/single-lidded eyes, eyes with (epicanthic) folds, slanted eyes, almond eyes… these are all words I have seen used to describe them, though some people do still get bothered by the last two because not every East/Southeast Asian has eyes shaped that way. Round eyes are just as common. As are double-lidded eyes (depending on the area).
I’ve noticed that a lot of people don’t even seem to realise that ‘chink’ itself has anything wrong with it when used in reference to East/Southeast Asians. I’ve even had someone ask me if it would be okay to say, ‘What’s up, chink!’ to greet an Asian-looking stranger they see often and wanted to get to know.
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My yesterday’s comment was lost due to wordpress downtime. Grrrr…
Anyways…
Freckles
All I wanted to say I wasn’t happy with my freckles. They are definitely not seen as an attractive thing here. I don’t have many, but I am extremely pale skinned and I am the only even semi-freckled person I know, so… It’s interesting to know there are people who do not consider that ugly.
Europeans and hairy women
I have no idea how this stereotype came to be. I guess it’s one of the popular stereotypes Americans (and others?) have about Europeans. Now, I am not sure about the rest, but in my part of Europe that is definitely not true. In fact, the opposite is true. Beauty standards demand women to be shaved, waxed, etc. and basically hairless, except the hair on their heads and styled eyebrows. “Brazilian” on the private parts is also acceptable, but nothing more than that.
Seriously, the standards are crazy. That’s why seeing all those hairy Eastern European girls in the American movies seem even more silly/unrealistic.
(Well, there are obviously women and girls who don’t do this, but they are considered unattractive and can hardly find a date).
Asian eyes
I understand it’s difficult to find a non-offensive term, because focusing on the eyes with epicanthic fold is very Eurocentric, and definitely not something that make all those millions of people in Eastern Asia what they are.
Still, I am asking because I want to find a way to refer to that type of eyes without using any of the slurs, and I don’t want to use the term “Asian” either.
Any ideas? Saying “single eyelid” eyes, or “eyes with epicanthic fold” seems too clinical.
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No, it does not have to be a wild jungle bush look, but pubic hair is a must for a guy like me.
Sam, watch out! Your age is showing! 😉
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This thread definitely needs to be renamed! 😎
On a side note, my birthday was on Monday, 3/21 so I took the day off from work to enjoy a bit of sunshine and motorcycling. Nice to just have a ‘me’ day, away from asshats and douchenozzles and psycho-bitch supervisors! 😀
…not that anyone cares, but oh well – life’s to short to let those with short attention spans affect me negatively! 😉
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@mira: yes it shows, I admit, porcelin reminds me too much of children. Unless you are a professional model, dancer or scubadiver, there is no reason for it. Brazilian runway will do just fine 😀
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Happy birthday, sepultura! Hope you had a great time.
Sam: Well, there are some younger men who appreciate pubic hair, but, sadly, not that many. Not in my culture, at least. (Don’t ask me how I know 😉 ).
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@sepultura13:
Happ Belated Birthday to you! 😀
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@sepultura 13:
Happy Birthday!
Feliz Navidad!
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Im sorry for off. I’m confused , Kim Karadashian leaked tape that all keep talking – is it real?
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@ lacromona-
hey doll
*chic noir gives lacromona a hug*
here is a new blk model and this lady is totally “unmixed” She’s in the current issue of madamoiselle(usa) mag.
http://fashionbombdaily.com/2011/03/25/snapshot-ayor-makur-chuot-photographed-by-david-oldham-and-styled-by-taylor-tomasi-hill-for-marie-claire-april-2011/
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Happy belated birthday, Sepultra! Hope you had a good one.
@ Mira
I think it is very difficult to find one that does not shove all East and Southeast Asians into one box, yet does not sound too cold and scientific. I’ve been a member of some message boards where the majority are East/Southeast Asian or a mixture of that and something else and most people focused on the idea of having single or double eyelids.
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Iris,
Indeed. Putting all those different ethnicities in one box makes no sense… And yet, Europeans hate when somebody does that to them (being a Scandinavian and South European is oh, sooooo different!)
Single eyelid/epicthantic fold do seem to be the only terms, but they seem clinical, and I bet many people wouldn’t even know what they mean.
But I’ve been trying to find a more suitable way to describe that kind of eyes, and I want to avoid the term “Asian”.
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Has anyone read or have any opinions about this book (recommended to me by Amazon):
Tim Burrell, “Brainwashed” (2010)
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Happy belated birthday, Sepultra 🙂
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@Abagond:
I went to the site, read some of the reviews, which seem to be mostly 4 to 5 stars. Funnily enough, I read a couple of replies to comments which mirror some of your posts! Some commenter called LLoyd even used the old many of my friends are black, but goes on to say that blacks are dysfunctional. Anyhow I purchased the book, sounds interesting.
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Great News!
I got my computer back! Apparently, the free anti-virus downloads removed the viruses. I thought that I wasn’t able to download them because my computer kept turning off, but after I turned on my computer after a week of being off, it works!
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@ Herneith:
Tell me what you think of it when you get a chance to look at it.
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I have another question. Any ideas for a term for all ‘people of colour’ that is universally acceptable? Apparently, ‘people of colour’ is not it (I’ve seen people get upset with this one. All of them were from European countries), but I can’t think of another that would be more acceptable! One cannot really say ‘non-White’, ‘ethnic people’ or ‘minorities’ (all terms I’ve witnessed people get offended by). For many, the former two insinuate White people are the norm and then there’s everyone else. The latter is western-centric and implies we are always only a tiny group (that’s all right to be forgotten) when, looking at the world, Indians and Chinese are actually the majority.
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Iris,
That’s a good question, but I guess like with everything else, there’s no universal answer to this. What is considered acceptable in the US might be offensive elsewhere and vice versa.
“Ethnic people” is stupid because there’s no such a thing as a person without ethnicity. Ok, at least from my European POV. Ethnicity in Europe is NOT the same thing as race. Germans, Norwegians, Italians and Irish are all whites, but are of different ethnicities. So saying “ethnic” people makes no sense whatsoever, and so does the term “ethnic whites”. At least I find it offensive.
“Minority” might work, but people need to understand the label is in no way universal; it depends on the context. So non-whites might be minorities in the US, but they are in no way minorities in the world (something whites often forget!) Plus, what is considered a minority might not be a minority at all, but an oppressed group: remember, you don’t have to be a minority to be oppressed and to lack power.
“Non-whites” might work fine for explaining what’s meant, but, like term “POC” puts things into strong Eurocentric perspective.
That being said, from what I’ve observed, most of the people are ok with terms “non-whites” and “ethnic people” (though I never use the latter because I hate it). But it depends on a person. Many black people preferred to be called black, but there are some who find it offensive. So I guess just go with whatever a person in question wants to be called.
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@Iris
If the term “people of colour” is not universally acceptable. You have to ask who is it not acceptable to?
If, as you state, Indians and Chinese or East Asians are actually the majority on the planet then why would this term be unacceptable to them?
The people I see most likely to object are white people themselves for fear of “seeming” to be excluded from that definition. As you correctly point out terms like “non-white” and “ethnic” are clearly misleading as they assume that:
“…White people are the norm and then there’s everyone else. The latter is western-centric and implies (POC) are always only a tiny group..”
Again…the incontestable reality is: people of colour (POC) are the majority on this planet. So how has illusion they are the minority come about?
On the issue of white people fearing exclusion from the POC definition its worth noting that from a Physics or Scientifically verifiable perspective a PURE white light source can ALWAYS be broken down into its constitutive components. This is easy to demonstrate when looking at the colours of a rainbow and when you do the experiment of shining a white light source through a prism. – It breaks down into several different SHADES of colours.
You have to ask: what does this tell us about white? Or about white being the absence of colour?
SIMPLE!!!
White is a combination of ALL other colours. In fact it owes its very existence to ALL other colours. So if people of colour didn’t exist FIRST then neither would white people.
The real fear white people have is NOT that they might be excluded from the definition of POC but that they ARE NOT an exclusively separate people (race) which they have been led to believe.
Its this belief that has formed the basis of White Supremacy/Black or POC inferiority. Its also become the fundamental basis of modern Western society. Its obviously a lie, untrue and an illusion but its one of many fear based driven beliefs that can account for why any white person might feel excluded from the inclusive term: People of Colour (POC)
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Personally, (as a white individual), I find “POC” offensive because it assumes whites are colour-less, which I find confusing. But I generally don’t think whites should decide what’s appropriate/offensive for non-whites, so I’ll just STFU.
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@iris: Well, I usually tend not to talk about people based on their color. If I say chinese, or indian or pakistani, listeners usually understand what I mean.
In case of so called multi racial countries like USA or France or Britain, I usually do not mention weather the individual I am talking about is black or white or whatever. Like Phil Lynnot was irish but also black dude, Slash is not white, Will Smith is an actor etc. I assume that either the listener knows or if she/he does not know, it does not matter. If and when someone asks was this the black actor, I may say yeah.
I takes a bit time to drop the race or color of skin out ones mind but if I can do it, so can anybody else. I mean, I am not the most flexible minded guy around and yet the race or color has been “fading” from my thinkig as years have gone by. So much so that my pal Sese is just Sese the guy, not a guy from Togo or african or black Sese, or what ever.
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Iris, racialized is a good term also.
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Thank you for all your interesting responses. 🙂
@ Mira
Yes, one size doesn’t fit all, so to speak… Sometimes it can be an issue when a place is very international because it is guaranteed that someone will be upset. As a result, most people gravitate towards using the terms Americans would feel the most comfortable with (since they are often in the majority online), but then other people also get bothered by everyone deciding to cater to Americans!
Yes, I agree that ‘ethnic people’ is a silly term, though it is one I still see in use.
@ Kwamla
Perhaps it is indeed White people who voiced an issue with that term. I wouldn’t know as I have only seen people get upset about it on the internet. Nevertheless, what you’ve said makes sense.
I remember an old teacher of mine also talking about White being the combination of all colours, so she never understood why people thought of it as ‘colourless’. Though I can see how a White Supremacist could twist their colour being all colours into being superior again.
@ Sam
I understand what you are saying, but I did not mean I wanted to use it for individuals. When I want to refer to a large group of people of multiple races (of which none are White) it would be impractical to list every individual race among them. e.g. It’s much easier to say, ‘People of colour are more likely to suffer from hyperpigmentation than White people.’ than it is to list all the races or ethnicities in place of ‘people of colour’.
@ Herneith
That is indeed a good term. I’ll keep it in mind.
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Thank you for the belated birthday wishes, those of you who cared enough to say! 😎
I intend to start my own (brand new) blog here at WordPress, so stay tuned…I’ve abandoned my other one since it was more of a personal cathartic and not very informative, LOL
I’m also going to submit a guest post soon. Hopefully it will be interesting! 🙂
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…and on a completely unrelated note, why do people insist on bringing their SICK CHILDREN TO WORK?!?!?!? Our company has insurance and paid sick leave and the ability to work from home, so…
USE IT, D@MNIT!!!!!
🙄
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I am shocked at the idea that someone prefers to travel to work instead of working at home, if (s)he is allowed to (at least for a brief period of time).
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@sepultra: In Finland parents can stay at home legally for few days if their kids are sick and companies usually understand the situation. How ever, is has become more and more typical for businesses to put some shame on parents who choose their sick kids over their job.
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Abagond can you do a post about fighting racism? Or something? Is it even possible? What are some ways to do it?
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OMG, I had to deal with some color struck retard this weekend. This chick is about 250lbs, has almost has no hair and has huge bell pepper nose, but thinks she’s the hottest thing ever. I had to deal with her at my cousin’s baby shower. She kept answering about my hair and wanted to cut it. Seriously, just because you can’t grow your hair pass your earlobe doesn’t mean i have to be bald-headed. She thought I was insane because I like to tan. I can’t understand why most Blacks are obsessed with their hair. It’s not that big of a deal. I love having my Unkempt Beauty style.
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Here is something to think about. Specially for IQ and race.
http://www.channel4.com/programmes/race-and-intelligence-sciences-last-taboo
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^ I’ve watched this. It’s a great series, which I would also recommend. If I remember correctly, in the end they say that, in a few years’ time, Black people will meet and maybe surpass the IQ of White people (whose IQs have remained stable for a long time).
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@iris: Yeah, and as far as IQ tests goes, it shows well how and why they do not measure intelligence at all but kognitive skills. One mistake though in that porgramme: they said that IQ tests predict fairly accurately how well a person will be successful in their lives in modernistic society. Not always. One of my friends never finished school, flunked in all kinds of tests and was total failure and bonafide hooligan in his teens but is now one of the top european guys in the field of hi tech. 😀
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Happy April 1st! Play nicely, now… 😀
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This could be an interesting muscial…take a look.
http://www.whitenoisebroadway.com/education.php
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Individuals with relatively recent black-white admixture seem to generally fall into three broad genetic/phenotypical categories. First, there are the 50/50 types (“mulattoes”) who tend to resemble light-skinned African Americans. Famous examples are Obama, Halle Berry, and Alicia Keys. Second, there are mixed people who are close to 75% white and 25% black (“quadroons”) and are often mistaken for Mediteraneans or Arabs. A notable example is actress Jennifer Beals. Finally, there those with very marginal African ancestry (“octoroons”) who look like ordinary white Americans. Wentworth Miller might fall into this category.
Problems relating to social integration and identity seem to fall hardest on the quadroon class. The mulattoes look black to American eyes and for this reason don’t seem to have too much trouble convincing others that’s what they are. The octoroons lack any signs of admixture and resemble pure white people so their claim to being white will probably go almost unchallenged. The situation is different with the quadroons though. On the one hand, they don’t have obvious African ancestry and look vaguely caucasian so that creates difficulties with respect to integrating into black society. On the other hand, the quadroons have hints of African admixture (e.g. olive complexion) so they don’t really meet the criteria of whiteness. Most of the issues I’ve been discussing here have been from a quadroon perspective. Mulattoes and octoroons probably don’t have to deal with issues relating to “acceptance” to the same degree.
From what I’ve read online , it seems that many of those with a quadroon appearance don’t have much problem being socially accepted as white. Subtle ethnic undertones apparently don’t automatically disqualify you from whiteness these days. Nevertheless, this class is still vulnerable to attacks on its social status. For example, people might arbitrarily redefine your race so as to socially distance you from them in times of conflict. Furthermore, famous people of quadroon appearance are still attacked for “passing.”
Perhaps the solution to these issues is the establishment of an intermediate “colored” category. Official recognition for ambiguous multiracials would provide a foundation for the creation of community ties, resolution of internal social problems, and expansion of group influence.
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“Perhaps the solution to these issues is the establishment of an intermediate “colored” category. Official recognition for ambiguous multiracials would provide a foundation for the creation of community ties, resolution of internal social problems, and expansion of group influence.”
I don’t know. it seems that the numbers for such a particular group of “quadroons” would yield a rather small population to draw a category from. Also, “multiracial” covers a lot of ground. Are talking only about persons of Black and White admixture, or anybody who is the product of a multi ethnic union?
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@FG
I think American society is literally confused on what they should call these people. This is just one and a seemingly simple, albeit important, reason Americans have the tendency to put biracials in one category or the other.
Mixed race Afro-Euro ppl should come up with a catchy name for themselves. Mulatto is quite archaic and some(blk, white, biracial, etc) find it offensive considering its root. Oh, and ‘colored’ is Jim-Crow sounding just like how Mulatto sounds like it belongs in slavery times. Once Afro-Euro ppl find a trendy name to call themselves ppl will catch on. Once that is done these racially ambiguous folks who aren’t accepted as white or black can just drop themselves into this mixed race category.
_______________
Personally I believe that if America ever becomes more interracial our racial classifications will soon resemble Latin America. Our acceptance of who is ‘white’ will include noticeably off-white looking people, race will also become less about a persons ancestry and more about how they look(all light skin blks will be dropped in the mixed category), and race will also be more fluid with white, black, native, and Asian all blending into one another.
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@FG I think you might find this interesting. A lot of your comments have to do with mixed ppl. You are biracial yourself correct? And one who identifies as non-black?
Census Data Presents Rise in Multiracial Population of Youths
By SUSAN SAULNY
Published: March 24, 2011
“Among American children, the multiracial population has increased almost 50 percent, to 4.2 million, since 2000, making it the fastest growing youth group in the country. The number of people of all ages who identified themselves as both white and black soared by 134 percent since 2000 to 1.8 million people, according to census data released Thursday.”
-The most common multiracials in the U.S. are Afro-Euro ppl(1,800,000). This more than likely has to do with the fact that blacks and whites are the 2 largest racial groups in the country, since their intermarriage rates are the lowest.
-In total their are 9 million ppl that identify as multiracial across the country. This is 2.9% of the population.
-Out of that 2.9% about 20% of them identify as being blk & white.
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Ugh… I forgot the link.
@FG
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@Cynic,
I’ve been mulling over this issue a long time, veering between positions. I now think establishment of an intermediate group is the most viable strategy for stabilizing the social status of the light mulatto population and bringing it out of the shadows of American society. These folks often have a tough time measuring up to other people’s standards, so they would benefit from having an ethnic formation all their own.
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@FG: While I get your idea, or why you would like to see mixed ethnicity having their own label or name etc., personally I am happier with the situation where people are just mixing and can not be put into some racial box.
Race labels should be done with. That is my opinion. Cultures are much more diverse, religions are dividing too, but color of your skin…
It is good to know that Jennifer Beals is out there, confusing the whole issue of this race classification. I like the way Alicia Keys look like, a black woman with face of any white cover girls, and even racists have to admit that she looks good. I like the fact that USA has a black president. More mixed and confused the better, I think.
Who the hell wants to keep up the race barriers? I do not want to classify people by race. I talk about their cultures and/or countries were they come from. For me George W. Bush and Ice Cube are both americans, first and foremost. David Duke and Snoop Dogg are both americans, as in US citizens. Not whites and blacks. Two guys do not know much about the music and two of them have done some pretty good stuff. 😀
You look at the US troops and who do you see? All kinds of faces. From the albino ghostlike whites to the blackest guy in the world and everything in between. That is the real face of USA. I belive it has just not yet sunk into the american mainstream media and mind that you are totally mixed society, “racially” that is.
That day will come when nobody cares about the color of your skin anymore. Interracial realtionships are more and more common, there are more and more kids who are mixed and they will have kids who mixed and so on and so on. One day nobody can say who is who “racially”. It will take time, there will be backlashes and set backs etc., but the train left the station ages ago and it won’t be coming back.
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@FG
I understand what you are saying. I am not disagreeing with it, but what about mixed ppl that look like light skin blacks, but don’t identify as such?
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abagond, do you know anything about Dr. Gabriel Oyibo the nigerian physicist who did alot of work with einstein’s grand unified field theorem?
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Sam,
I think you’re right. The racial situation is easing to such a degree that mixed people probably don’t need their own ethnicity. In fact, there seems to be much goodwill and warm sentiments towards this demographic from many quarters these days.
I’m surprised by the amount of interest that my posts on the lives of mixed race people have drawn. Those concerning social relations between light mulattoes and the white people appear to elicit a special amount of curiosity (and titillation) for some reason.
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I don’t have much to say on this now, but I think this is a really important article.
Scott Berry Kaufman Ph.D.
Cognitive Scientist and Personality Psychologist; NYU Professor
8 Surprising Facts About Parenting, Genes, And What Really Makes Us Who We Are
Posted:03/27/11 10:52 AM ET
1)Genes, By Themselves, Can’t Determine Anything
2)Parents Matter, And Will Always Matter
3)Heritability Depends Entirely On Context
4)The Actual Heritability Value Simply Does Not Matter
5)Heritability Doesn’t Necessarily Have To Do With Biology
6)Heritability Says Nothing About Whether Intelligence Is More Determined By Genes Or The Environment
7)Twin Studies Do Not Reveal The Causes Of Intellectual Development
8)Heritability Is Not The Same As Heredity
I feel sorry for the next commenter. You’ve been cursed with the mark of the beast! LOL :O
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Posts on the following gorgeous black men are still to be done:
Chiwetel Ejiofor
Tyson Beckford
Blair Underwood
Shemar Moore
I think a guest post by a woman, especially a fan, would be much better than anything I could do.
So if you want to do a guest post on any of these, email me at abagond at gmail. Requirements: 480 to 500 words + plenty of pictures, the more the better. Or if you just want to send pictures, that would be a great help too.
Stuff you might want to put in your post: his claim to fame, bio, challenges he faced, what you like about him, quotes, trivia, etc. The Wikipedia and imdb.com are good starting points, so are interviews, YouTube videos and fan clubs.
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^^4got the link
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/scott-barry-kaufman/nature-vs-nurture_b_837915.html
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Thanks Cynic, I’ve gotten a lot of good links from you.
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Abagond,
How can I write a guest post?
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@King
No problem
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I would like to right a post titled “How to solve all social illnesses in Black America in just two generations”
Interested?
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That would be great.
Write at least 480 words and email it to me. If you send more than 500 words, I will edit it down to 500. Send any pictures you want to go with it too. If you send no pictures, I will find at least one to put at the top of the post. I will edit it into a post, send it back to you for any changes you want to make. Nothing gets posted until we are both happy with it.
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Interesting article here – not a bad idea, actually!
http://www.cnn.com/2011/OPINION/04/12/granderson.ignorant.vote/index.html?hpt=C2#
Considering the political landscape of late, this is probably an idea that was needed 10 years ago…
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check this out! just found it by accident: punk rock in Detroit before the punk explosion 1977 and by black guys!
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So, the fraud in my neck of the woods gets a mere slap on the wrist now that she has ‘expressed remorse’ for her lies; also, she has a convenient mental-illness label for what she did, so now that will be the excuse du jour for anyone else who does something similar.
http://vancouver.katu.com/news/news/bethany-storro-pleads-guilty-lying-police/439672
Ah, the privilege and benefit of having an excuse for anything and everything you do, no matter how reprehensible! Ain’t life grand? 😀
Love the comments at the end, too…people still feel sorry for her, although I’m betting that if her skin color was a few shades darker, there would have been an entirely different reaction, response, and outcome to this story! 🙄
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Another interesting local story…Mira, this one is pertinent to your part of the world:
http://beaverton.katu.com/news/crime/beaverton-woman-accused-violent-war-crimes-bosnia/439758
I’ve always kept up with news from around the globe, as much as possible, and I vividly recall this specific one. I’m glad they caught this woman; one less war criminal to worry about, but so many more to find and bring to justice…
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Politics…blugh…
I first saw an interview with ‘the Stump’ years ago, when I was 14…even then, I thought he was one of the biggest scumbags alive – a reprehensible cretin of the worst type.
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Interesting stuff…
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-13073905
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/04/14/limbaugh-obama-base-savag_n_849246.html?icid=main%7Chtmlws-main-n%7Cdl1%7Csec3_lnk3%7C209892
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Is anybody going to watch the new Henry Louis Gates Jr special, “Black in Latin America”? It’s a four part series starting April 19th-May 3rd on each Tuesday.
It looks very interesting! I hope they don’t spend too much time discussing the dumb one-drop rule(that debate is soo played out) or show Latin America from a 100% US bias. I want a documentary that plunges itself into Afro-Latino culture(music, food, religion, etc.), has a TON of historical facts, and presents their current socio-economic status w/o making Black Latinos look pitiful. I can’t wait to watch!
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Oh he’s going to Haiti, the Dominican Republic, Brazil, Mexico, and Peru.
I’m not interested in seeing Mexico at all. I wish Gates would switch out our Southern border neighbor w/ Venezuela and possibly Peru w/ Colombia.
This new series has me wishing they would do one for the Caribbean also. For some reason African/Afro-descent history is really interesting to me. I especially love learning about ppl of African descent in the countries below the US.
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@ The Cynic:
Thanks for posting those links…that special looks interesting to me as well. I’ve always wanted to visit Brazil and a few other Latin American countries; for me, knowing the historical and cultural backgrounds of any place I’d like to visit is an important first step.
On a side note, I love watching the Daily Show and Stephen Colbert – here’s a great article about how politicians of late are flat-out lying about topics, but as long as they throw out the disclaimer: “It wasn’t meant to be a factual statement”, they then have carte blanche to repeat those lies, over and over again, and have others pick up that drum and beat it loudly and often.
http://www.cnn.com/2011/OPINION/04/15/avlon.kyl.truth/index.html?hpt=T2
Final side note: has anyone heard of “paid posters”, AKA “PeePees”? These are people who get paid to troll various websites, blogs, newsfeeds, etc. and completely derail topics with half-truths and outright lies. Something to ponder, no? 😎
Have a great weekend, everyone – gotta bounce…
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@Lookingforanswers (Apr 12)-
“I would like to right a post titled “How to solve all social illnesses in Black America in just two generations”
Interested?”
I can’t wait to read this!
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@sam (Apr 13)–
“check this out! just found it by accident: punk rock in Detroit before the punk explosion 1977 and by black guys!”
Just read a post about them today, here:
http://www.theatlantic.com/entertainment/archive/2011/04/a-history-of-death/237382/
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Hey thanks Cynic, I’m going to check that out. It looks really interesting!
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@abagond (Mar 27)–
“Has anyone read or have any opinions about this book (recommended to me by Amazon):
Tim Burrell, “Brainwashed” (2010)”
I see that Hernieth has replied to you.
My opinion: I started reading this it & was enjoying it, but near the middle it began to become kind of redundant & simplistic. I’ll probably go back to it since I hate to leave a book unfinished. I look forward to Hernieth’s opinion.
If you had a Kindle, I could loan you my copy 🙂
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@King & Sepultura13
This is such a coincidence. I was reading another forum with a completely different topic and just happened to come across this link:
http://www-tc.pbs.org/video/media/swf/PBSPlayer.swfWatch the full episode. See more Black in Latin America.
Hope this embed works. Just in case you guys want to cheat the April 19th TV premiere, it’s already on the PBS site. I must say I enjoyed watching it.
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@Sepultura13
I once had the idea that ignorant ppl shouldn’t be allowed to vote. I’t sounds nice, but I wonder if any complications would arise from this thought.
For instance, we would eventually come across this complicated question, “Do ignorant people have the right to have their concerns represented in Congress?” Let’s say you don’t care about anything else, but ONE issue that is very important to your life. You don’t need to know anything else about society & politics, but that issue alone. Is it fair to withhold your vote bc you are not cognizant of an array of general issues, many of which are not essential to your life?
Idk the answer to that, so I have difficulty answering whether ignorants should be allowed to vote.
I do, however, have another suggestion that may improve democracies around the world. I think voters should be allowed to vote for the salaries of their representatives. At the beginning of a term politicians are given a median salary. Depending on how well they do their jobs voters get to decide how high or low they get paid. Of course, we’ll make set a limit to how ‘high’ or ‘low’ that salary is. We don’t want ppl to get out of control in their monetary punishments/rewards. Though, the lowest amnt that voters can punish their politicians w/ should be low enough to make bad politicians want to quit office.
I think this idea will help reign in on corrupt and inefficient officials around the world. What do you guys think? Is this idea feasible?
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Cool! Thanks, Cynic!
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@temple: thanks. I’ve always been mystified how the industry has played this out, rock for whites and r&b for blacks etc. It is all sucha BS.
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I found a great article about a black family’s experience in adopting a white child. Hope you enjoy!
http://www.newsweek.com/2009/04/22/raising-katie.html
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Attention all Pot Heads! Reefer Madness to take over Canada!
http://www.thestar.com/news/article/974409–lawmakers-police-seek-guidance-after-pot-laws-quashed?bn=1
They have until July to make a move in the courts otherwise, marajuanha will be legal. It will certainly boost the tourist industry!
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Breaking News!
The True Finns havae taken over Finland.
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olufemi
*chic noir blushes*
merci
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Abagond Chic Noir:
You are right: I do like Denise Richards and it is mainly her eyes.
See I told you so 🙂 I know your type.
Mira Denise Richards looks cheap and generic
Really ? In her younger days, she was a very very good-looking woman. I can’t say that I;ve come across many real women who have this sort of big pretty puppy dog look.
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Some commenters have made the argument that violence in the inner cities is due to a lack of police protection. This is true in a sense. Crime rates are affected by how much opportunity there is to engage in illegal conduct. More police on the streets reduces miscreants’ ability to carry out assaults on people and property. And if you increased the police presence enough, crime would cease.
However, crime levels also depend on motivation; illicit acts only occur when there are people willing to commit them. Middle class suburbs often have very little police protection, but most residents feel perfectly safe because they have no reason to fear their neighbors. A need for extensive police protection signals an underlying social sickness. The fact that there are so many violence-prone individuals in the urban areas is an issue that needs to be examined and addressed in a sober manner.
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I hate phony apologies…it would be better to not apologize at all, rather than make a half-assed attempt at showing feelings of remorse that really aren’t there:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/04/18/racist-obama-email-califo_n_850754.html?icid=main%7Chtmlws-main-n%7Cdl1%7Csec1_lnk3%7C210221
Personally, if I’m doing something, I’d rather use my WHOLE ass! 😉
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Here’s a great article – one of many reasons I’m happy that I had a son and not a daughter! Not that I’d buy her any of the crap mentioned in this article…hell, no. Not by a long shot!
http://www.cnn.com/2011/OPINION/04/19/granderson.children.dress/index.html?hpt=T2
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@FG: You joking? Crime is up in areas where crime is a way and means to survive, gain recongnition, and/or social mobility (relatively).
As for the “violent individuals”, you can not separate the american violent crime from american culture of violence. Just looka at the whole gun culture!
Finland is sometimes called “the most violent country in the western Europe” (actually we live up north) and why is this? Because we have our own culture of violence going back at least since 1800’s.
Race has nothing to do with this. Just like Dave Chapelle famously put it: “black people don’t like to live in a ghetto”.
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Easter approaching and all that crime talk, here’s a very interesting stance on the “bad eggs”…
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Thats an interesting video Olufemi. But how many people actually believe that to make a change in the world you have to be that change?
Judging from most of the discussions that take place here. Maybe not that many!
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I love The Onion…it amuses me. 😎
http://www.theonion.com/articles/afterbirthers-demand-to-see-obamas-placenta,6866/
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Sadly enough, Kwamla, you are most likely right. However, it amazes me how many people, at least silently, agree. Those who disagree don’t have any plausible counter-argument, not even if one would assume a purely emotional level behind any of those ideas.
“Visionary people face the same problems everyone else faces; but rather than get paralysed by their problems, visionaries immediately commit themselves to finding a solution.” Bill Hybels
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I LOVE YOUR BLOG. But I have a serious question. Do you think that the majority of black men and women will ever change, meaning stop acting like the stereotype of being “ghetto”? Stop cursing and being mean to others for no reason. Do you think that blacks will ever take school seriously and want to get ahead in life?
Note: By no means do I think that ALL black people act like this.
Also do you think that the music industry has a negative affect on the African American society? I think that seeing other blacks on t.v act wild and curse makes the younger black generation want to act like that too. Also do you think that when they hear people like Lil Wayne rap about guns and drugs makes them think it’s okay because they have money, cars and fast women?
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Ah, the ‘birther’ (non)issue…it’s like the Energizer bunny.
If my dad had ever said that if I were not his daughter he would date me, I would have thrown up.
http://www.hollywood.com/news/Trump_Id_Date_Ivanka/3483077
@ThatkidLola:
Here are some questions for you.
1. When will you start worrying about your own contributions to life, and not what you stereotypically ASSume others are/aren’t doing?
2. When will you honestly interact with people from all walks of life, and stop treating them like cardboard cutouts from television shows?
3. When will you deal with reality?
Ask genuine questions. Don’t regurgitate swill and expect to be taken seriously.
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Note: The quote about “If my dad…” in my post directly above had been stated by a person commenting in the article itself – I wasn’t able to do the block-quote, so I just wanted to clarify.
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Gee – you’d think this winner would plead guilty and show PRIDE in his work, don’t ya think?
http://www.katu.com/news/local/120666764.html
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@sepultra: I liked how his attorney described possible life sentence 😀
Guys like these seldom do because they are cowards basically. You saw this in Nürnberg trials after WW2. Only one nazi stood up and said, yes, I was into killing the jews etc. He also called other nazi leaders as cowards and traitors when they tried to explain themselves.
Of course, normal humanbeings may ask is everything ok with this fella??
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Julius_Streicher
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American Justice
http://news.yahoo.com/s/yblog_thelookout/20110425/us_yblog_thelookout/rally-for-prosecuted-homeless-mom-who-sent-son-to-a-better-school-district
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@ King
Wow. That is a VERY interesting story. Selective punishments still reign supreme, in 21st century US of A!
Speaking of selective punishments, I’ve been fascinated by the local shootings of police officers; fascinating to me because two of the shootings resulted in fatalities, but the caucasian cop-killers are still alive. Another who shot a cop (the cop lived) went on the run and has been ‘at large’ since January. A suicidal caucasian man deliberately shot at officers in an attempt to commit ‘suicide by cop’; he’s still alive, but a young Black man who HAD been suicidal, but was negotiating with a counselor, was SHOT IN THE BACK FIVE TIMES, WHILE COMPLYING WITH THE ORDERS OF THE NEGOTIATOR. Legal murder – ain’t it grand?
When a Black person looks cross-eyed at a cop, a beating is the least of what could happen – when a white person SHOOTS a cop, they’re more likely than not to live and talk about it!
I’m going to find the links for these respective stories and post them later on…no time right now.
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One final thing:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-13200859
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The odds are high that Abu-Jamal was framed.
I just stumbled upon this. It made me realise once again what could be fundamentally wrong in this world. Over 2 billion total views on youtube…
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has anyone heard that chris brown is engaged to his new girlfriend? that man has had quite a time…a few weeks ago he’s breaking windows and flipping out on good morning america now he’s proposing to his girlfriend that he just started dating??
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And…let the nuttiness begin!
http://www.buzzfeed.com/mjs538/top-20-crazy-tea-party-reactions-to-obamas-birth
I’m not surprised…the knee-jerk reactions of the certifiably insane have become way too predictable.
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…thank goodness for the hilarity of the Onion…
😎
http://www.theonion.com/articles/trump-unable-to-produce-certificate-proving-hes-no,20250/
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Fascinating, but not surprising:
http://www.salon.com/news/politics/war_room/2011/04/28/donald_trump_discrimination_suit
I noticed that a fairly new commenter, who claims to be black, used the same term for black people that Herr Trump did – some silly nonsense about how “the blacks need to stop blaming white people” and “take care of their own business”, which is fascinating sentence structure IMHO…
Book recommendation:
The Butcher’s Theatre by Jonathan Kellerman. A great, well-written mystery novel, with a plot that is completely feasible.
I was nearly halfway through it when I figured out who the killer was! 😎
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Osama bin Laden is dead!
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^Does anybody know if they have released any pictures. I wonder how this news is going to effect our role in the Middle East…
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@ The Cynic:
American government officials are currently debating whether or not to show a picture of Osama’s body, so we shall see…
I knew that the naysayers would jump on that – the ghouls won’t be satisfied until they see a corpse. Never mind the fact that a high-caliber rifle does severe damage to the cranium! I suppose people will be satisfied when they see the remaining, bloody pieces of his head being cradled by the gloved hands of an American Navy SEAL.
On that note…
http://www.borowitzreport.com/2011/05/02/2012-election-cancelled/
LMAO 😎
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http://www.borowitzreport.com/2011/04/24/trump-dogged-by-rumors-his-hair-is-not-from-us/
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…and finally:
http://www.buzzfeed.com/mjs538/40-incredibly-dumb-facebook-reactions-to-osama-bin
Enjoy the comments…
Forgive my profanity below, but I need to vent my spleen for a moment:
Personally, the comments in the link above made me slightly ill…I don’t give a flying FUCK what one’s political leanings are, but I’m really tired of the outright hatred shown towards Obama, and let’s fucking admit it – the hate it solely based on racism.
Like it or not, Obama is the gawddamned President of the USA. I didn’t like G.W. Bush, but didn’t feel the need to engage in juvenile name-calling and sickening, hate-filled diatribes. We all know why others do this to the current president, so let’s stop beating about the bush and be fucking honest: PEOPLE HATE PRESIDENT OBAMA BECAUSE HE’S NOT LILY-WHITE!!!!
I’m not for eugenics, but I am for the euthanization of mad dogs and/or people! Osama bin Laden was one, and his execution was necessary. There are many others who hide behind computer monitors and shitty screen names, spewing their filth in the most cowardly ways possible. If I could reach through my monitor and destroy that ilk, I would cull them immediately…too bad I can only do things like that in the books I’m writing.
I’m done for now…
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http://www.thenation.com/blog/160353/cheney-tries-rewrite-history-rather-admit-he-was-wrong-about-obamas-approach-war-terror
http://www.salon.com/news/politics/war_room/2011/05/03/osama_reactions_guide
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Thanks for the links.
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Here’s a great op-ed piece from my home city’s paper. The commentary following it is…to be expected.
http://www.seattlepi.com/local/connelly/article/Obama-s-past-week-From-birth-certificate-to-1364138.php
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-A short history on US debt, as well as a discussion on raising the debt ceiling.
http://www.wbur.org/npr/135898608/whither-the-debt-ceiling
-CEO’s are now enjoying more pay than they did b4 the recession.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/05/06/ceo-pay-high-pre-recession_n_858430.html
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I personally think Osama died long ago and that raid in Pakistan was an eyewash.
Keeping in line with the theme of this blog, did you guys know that Libyan rebels are specifically targetting and killing blacks based on the western media propaganda that Gaddafi has brought black mercenaries to fight the rebels?
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@angelsanddimensions: Well, he has. The reason being that Gaddafi pays more to those guys than they can ever make on their home countries so a lot of black guys go there and many are surprised that there is actual war going on.
The thing that western media does not report is the old one again; many rebels are openly muslim extremists. Once Gaddafi is out, then the west will get it, they think and some have even said so openly. Remember Afganistan in the old soviet occupation days??
Same thing happening in Syria. In one of the smuggled videos thousands are shouting Allah u akbar, allah u akbar! and the western commentators say: ” …the crowd demanding democracy blablablaa”. Looked like they were not demanding western style democracy at al but something else.
Not that I support those dictators but just to comment on how the western media plays these things out.
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it’s likely that Gaddafi brought in outside militia groups. but still we don’t have any proof of that except mainstream media reports (without any supporting videos or pictures). the fact is: Libya being one of the richest countries in Africa is a popular immigration destination in Africa and people from all over Africa go there to work. it’s those guys that are in the biggest trouble.
http://www.ibtimes.com/articles/117665/20110301/libya-africans.htm
http://somalilandpress.com/libya-rebels-execute-black-immigrants-while-forces-kidnap-others-20586
no mainstream media has covered this issue yet.
the US and NATO countries know pretty well about the extremist element in Libya. Ex-Guantanamo detainees including al-Qaeda members are fighting against the current Libyan regime in Libya. They’re just deliberately leaving that bit out in order to gain public support for the invasion.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/africaandindianocean/libya/8407047/Libyan-rebel-commander-admits-his-fighters-have-al-Qaeda-links.html
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darn the moderation.. how many links can you post in each post without getting caught in spamcheck?
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You are allowed up to two links.
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Interesting…
http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/osama-bin-ladens-anti-us-strategy-exploit-minority/story?id=13547780
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@king: I think they’ve been drooling about african americans for years by now. No need to try infiltrate a foreigner from mid east or arab into US, just pick up a normal looking black dude, brainwash him/her and it is on.
One thing about extremists, no matter right or left, religious or not, is that they will try anything. And what better than opressed or downtrodded around the world. The London bombers were not foreigners, they were guys who were born in Britain but recruited by extremists.
Most of the nazi skinheads and such come from unemployed and lower classes, less educated or alienated groups and they are used by the “geniuses” of these movements like pawns to do the dirty work on the streets. Same pattern there too. Timothy McVeigh was one such guy.
And from the stand point of the extremist leaders, these guys are totally expendable. So I bet Al Qaida will try this thing one of these days, if it is not all ready trying.
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There were sightings of Osama still alive, playing garden croquet with Elvis and Michael Jackson. Intelligence secretly collected by the Bush family confirmed that Bin Laden was pacified by Sasquatch around 2004.
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Has anyone read this book and is it any good?
Thomas Shapiro
“The Hidden Cost of Being African American: How Wealth Perpetuates Inequality” (2005)
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@olufemi: 😀
Not to mention that Jimmy Hoffa is the guy who tries to work out a deal for all of them
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it is annoyingly stupid when a comment like ‘Osama has probably been dead for years’ is replied to with a comment like ‘yeah, he’s alive and dancing with Elvis now’.
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Mandatory and required for all memberes of the human male species! Your life depends on this! What you do next is YOUR choice!
Listen to this (you will be shocked and horrified beyond belief!):
[audio src="http://a1135.g.akamai.net/f/1135/18227/1...odcast.mp3" /]
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Year-round schooling for kids in the USA is an idea that’s long overdue:
http://www.cnn.com/2011/OPINION/05/10/granderson.yearround.school/index.html?hpt=C2
When people don’t know how to write an old-fashioned letter (Greeting, introduction, main body, closing) AND in cursive, or read an analog clock with Roman numerals, then something needs to change, and quickly!
http://www.cnn.com/2011/OPINION/05/10/granderson.yearround.school/index.html?hpt=C2
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The American education system needs to be revamped but all year school with the same tired system won’t work, and high pressure cramming just pumps out drones, creativity will suffer. Not to mention the fact that we’re talking about different cultures here, what fits a place like China won’t fit America.
When I came to the US and started high school I was disappointed, I used to enjoy school but I found some of the teachers didn’t care and the class got a lot of irrelevant “busy work” but (with the exception of the few Nigerian, some other Caribbean kids and the Asian kids who weren’t poppin’ and lockin’) the students didn’t even care to do even that. Extending the school year without toning down materialism and instant gratification will result in failure.
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@ Gen:
You made some great points. There are definitely no easy answers when it comes to the education system in the US! There are too many things in this country that need to be re-done from the ground up, but they are too politically intertwined and get bogged down in red tape from all sides….
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Thad was banned. Black & German now posts under the name of Alte. They both have blogs:
Alte:
http://traditionalcatholicism.wordpress.com/
Thad:
http://omangueblog.blogspot.com/
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How sad. I didn’t know Mia Amber Davis passed away at 36. So young and quite beautiful. RIP Mia. 😦
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http://www.bostonreview.net/BR36.1/steinberg.php
http://newpolitics.mayfirst.org/node/254
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The Cynic,
Steinberg doesn’t explain how immigrants often succeed despite being poor and non-white.
Can you even imagine a school full of Chinese and Indian immigrant children needing metal detectors and armed police “resource officers” just to keep basic civil order? Of course not.
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@Randy Garver
What are you talking about?
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I’m talking about the first link you posted:
http://www.bostonreview.net/BR36.1/steinberg.php
“Poor Reason
Culture still doesn’t explain poverty”
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@Randy Garver
Umm… okay? It was pretty obvious you were talking about the links Randy. What are you getting at?
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@Randy G
Sigh… now I see I should of wrote something b4 I posted the links. First, those links were more-so directed to King, Abagond, and other BLACK commenters on this blog that genuinely care about black issues.
Now onto answering what I believe you are asking…
Many Asian immigrants in the US haven’t become enslaved to a “culture of poverty” bc they created jobs for themselves & other immigrants independent of whites. This has allowed them to build wealth and avoid negative stigmas that could harm them in the white dominated job markets. Steinberg clearly stated that the lack of decent jobs w/in the BC disintegrates families and eventually creates a culture of poverty. Historically(and currently), racist/prejudice white employers have kept large portions of African Americans outside the job market. This is why I am telling King it would be better for blks to create their own jobs like many Asian immigrants have.
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Interesting article on the growth of the mixed-identified population and how physical appearance affects self-concept among multiracials:
http://www.stanforddaily.com/2011/05/05/1048224/
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I finally have a blog, but haven’t posted anything yet – just an FYI for the few who might be interested in checking it out.
Abagond, I hope it’s okay to link to your blog from time to time! 😎
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@King
So, what are the steps that we should take?
Before I answer, I want to say that you really need to stop using this sarcastic method of asking people solutions to problems you would rather sweep under the rug by discussing white racism/history. If these are not your intentions feel free to correct me, but I am highly suspicious of your motives.
Also, don’t bother critiquing my steps unless you counter them with suggestions of your own. I don’t want to here any, “this isn’t feasible bc…” responses. You may ask ‘why’
I put forth a suggestion.
The black community should start a movement for the social and economic development of our ilk. This movement should be seen as a continuation of the Civil Rights movement. Here are the steps(in no particular order) this movement should be take to indirectly/directly ameliorate this education problem.
1)Birth control advocacy
-Birth control should be made more accessible
-Mandatory family planning classes in high school
-Make it illegal for low-income citizens to have more than two children. This should be filed under child abuse laws
– Make out-of-wedlock births illegal
-Sterilize fathers who the courts say are not taking care of their children.
-Sterilize mothers who have more children than they can provide(using income as a measure)
2)Reconstructing Black relationships
-Admit their is a problem, work to fix the problem let the healing begin.
-Here check the links:
3)Change our schools
-Teachers should be put under rigorous training(thru in independent government body and not the schools)
-Federally mandated parent-teacher conferences ever several weeks or months. Absences will result in financial penalties.
4)Make Affirmative Action illegal
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I’ll start checking it out as soon as you’ve got something up, sepultura. Please let us know.
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Thanks for the interesting article FG.
By the way FG, I’m never quite sure what mixed people are talking about when they advocate for a separate, mixed community.
Is what is meant is that anyone who is a mixture of at least any two races will all come together under the “mixed” community? So, a person of Chinese and Caucasian ancestry would be in the same “mixed community” as a person of West African and Puerto Rican ancestry?
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Lol I thought this was interesting. It’s funny to see some of the stuff ppl believe.
Study: Whites say they are racism victims
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2011/05/24/scitech/main20065864.shtml
Is Anti-White Bias a Problem?
http://www.nytimes.com/roomfordebate/2011/05/22/is-anti-white-bias-a-problem/when-prejudice-is-so-malleable
I’d really appreciate it if anybody can find a link to the Susan Fiske study the first debater, Patricia J. Williams, cites.
@King
I guess long comments get stuck in moderators? My first intro may come off a little harsh. That is not how I wrote it. Ideological differences are not enough for me to hate someone(esp. when they are over the internet), so try not to take it personally.
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Yeah, it is taking a long time to get through. You should have refrained from cursing at me so much in your intro! I’ll warrant that’s the trouble!
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@sepultra: link please
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@The Cynic
1)Birth control advocacy
-Birth control should be made more accessible
-Mandatory family planning classes in high school
-Make it illegal for low-income citizens to have more than two children. This should be filed under child abuse laws
– Make out-of-wedlock births illegal
-Sterilize fathers who the courts say are not taking care of their children.
-Sterilize mothers who have more children than they can provide(using income as a measure)
Dude, this is horrifying! Forced sterilizations and coerced abortions? Do you know what it does to a person’s psyche when you tell them they can’t have children because they’re too poor, or they’re over their limit? Take a look at the rash of knife attacks on Chinese kindergartens to get an idea.
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@The Cynic
Sorry, I overlooked this part.
Also, don’t bother critiquing my steps unless you counter them with suggestions of your own.
My suggestion is: don’t do that. The status quo is still infinitely better than the state jiggling a coat-hanger around in the womb of black America.
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@Awryguy
My suggestion is
Yeah, nice try. Come with an actual solutions that will fix problems.
p.s. Aren’t white? Why do you care and why should I listen to you?
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@The Cynic
Doing nothing is still a better solution than yours. If I told you that my solution was to add LSD to the water supply, would you just smile politely or would you tell me I was being a fool? You’re better off when people point out the flaws in your ideas, so stop hiding from criticism.
p.s. Aren’t white? Why do you care and why should I listen to you?
Yes, I’m pretty white. I care about other people and the problems they face, not just myself. You should listen to me because the colour of my skin doesn’t have anything to do with the potency of my brain.
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@ Cynic
Why is it that whenever I ask someone what their ideas are on improving things they always think I’m being sarcastic? I just wanted to know what your ideas were.
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@King
It’s just the tone. I watched the way you replied to SailorScout when she gave her suggestions and your reply just didn’t come off as “warm” as some of your other comments.
@Awryguy
Your opinion just doesn’t matter to me and if you really cared you would think up some solutions.
You should listen to me because the colour of my skin doesn’t have anything to do with the potency of my brain.
-yeah, but it’s likely that it has shaped your brain’s perceptions and your personal world view…
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Birth Control Advocacy
Family Planning Advocacy actually is a good idea, and in fact, it was a mandatory course in my high school. All of the particulars were covered in a mandatory “Health Science” class that was a graduation requirement.
However, all of this stuff is basic police state action and probably unconstitutional.
-Make it illegal for low-income citizens to have more than two children. This should be filed under child abuse laws
– Make out-of-wedlock births illegal
-Sterilize fathers who the courts say are not taking care of their children.
-Sterilize mothers who have more children than they can provide(using income as a measure)
I’m assuming that you’re intelligent enough, in the light of day, to see the problems that this would cause. Because you’re trusting the courts to make some pretty drastic and life- altering decisions about people here. And then you’re asking them to impose some rather permanent solutions.
Question: Would these solutions be imposed on Black citizens only, or on all citizens?
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@ Cynic.
Your second solution
Reconstructing Black relationships
-Admit their is a problem, work to fix the problem let the healing begin.
I’m not sure how you mean this? I mean, clearly some people have pathological problems in their relationships, while others have normal problems. It’s a sliding scale and seems addressable only on an individual basis. I think you’d have to be a lot more specific on what you’re talking about.
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@The Cynic
yeah, but it’s likely that it has shaped your brain’s perceptions and your personal world view…
Yes, of course. And when your solutions reach a level that requires the experience of being black to understand, then I’ll keep my mouth shut. However, I could walk into any conversation, hear someone advocate forced human sterilization, and know it’s a bad idea.
Your opinion just doesn’t matter to me…
I assumed as much, which is why I provided something tangible for you to think about (China’s experience with state womb-control).
…and if you really cared you would think up some solutions.
Which you would promptly ignore because of the colour of my skin.
Oh, and another reason for me to care whenever somebody advocates a police state – as King asked:
Would these solutions be imposed on Black citizens only, or on all citizens?
Because one day I might want to have children too.
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@King
Whether it’s unconstitutional or not is for the courts to decide. They are, after-all, the ones who interpret laws. One judge may say healthcare mandates are unconstitutional, while another says they are not. It just depends.
pretty drastic and life-altering decisions about people here
-No, I am asking the courts to make some pretty drastic decisions about society. Other people’s irresponsible actions have an affect on others. I consider having more children than you have resources to take care of as child abuse. It’s selfish and irresponsible, especially considering the availability of multiple forms of birth control. This law wouldn’t just restrict low-income folks, though. It would go like, the more wealth you have, the more kids you can have. This goes on to the middle & upper classes.
Plus, I don’t see what is so dramatic about telling lower income folks to only have two children. This is way diff. than China’s 1 child policy. If they go over-limit, they will already have three damn children! If they don’t want to get a vasectomy(I believe their is specific name for a female version I can’t think of right now) than they can pay a fine. No big deal.
Question: Would these solutions be imposed on Black citizens only, or on all citizens?
-It would help black folks the most, but it would be imposed on all citizens.
p.s. I said nothing of coerced abortions Awryguy
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@ Cynic
Change our schools
“-Teachers should be put under rigorous training(thru in independent government body and not the schools)
I agree that teachers should have rigorous training.
Do you believe that a main problem in the Black community is that those who teach there are not as well trained as in other communities? There may be some truth to that.
-Federally mandated parent-teacher conferences ever several weeks or months. Absences will result in financial penalties.
On a practical level, I don’t think that the Federal government could get involved on that level unless all of the schools were federalized. But assuming that they could, what would you do if people didn’t show up to the PTCs, and also didn’t pay the fines?
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@Awryguy
I’m not responding to you anymore. I need suggestions & feedback from people who are black and grew up around black people. Your perspective is not needed. Oh, and stop putting words in my mouth. I didn’t say ppl can’t have children. I am suggesting something different than China’s one child policy(which I think is a good idea). Bringing up knife attacks when I am speaking of a drastically different policy(no coerced abortions. Two instead of one child) is pointless.
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@ Cynic
Make Affirmative Action illegal
It’s interesting that you don’t say “Reform Affirmative Action.” Do you feel that there is no aspect of Affirmative Action that is still helpful? Remember, there are a lot branches to this tree. You may not be aware of all of them and how they work. It might be better to overview Affirmative Action and take out what doesn’t work any more and keep things that everyone still sees as useful.
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@ Cynic
It will probably be unwieldy to try and talk about every one of your points at the same time. That’s why I divided my responses.
I suggest, one at a time,but it’s up to you, of course.
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@King
Do you believe that a main problem in the Black community is that those who teach there are not as well trained as in other communities? There may be some truth to that.
Yes, I brought up a study about it earlier. That, and my own personal experience,(one of the reasons I am not taking suggestions from ppl like Awryguy) influenced me making that suggestion.
On a practical level, I don’t think that the Federal government could get involved on that level unless all of the schools were federalized. But assuming that they could, what would you do if people didn’t show up to the PTCs, and also didn’t pay the fines?
You’re right. I forgot about that. I guess this would have to be worked out on a state level and adopted if shown to be successful.
Idk… I guess after a liberal number of absences the punishment would have to be prison(if they can’t make a reasonable case to the courts).
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Really, it’s a pity that this isn’t a guest post so that it could have it’s own thread.
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@King
Two at a time is good.
Do you feel that there is no aspect of Affirmative Action that is still helpful?
Affirmative Action gives out the message that Black children need help going to school, not bc of their culture, but bc of racial inequalities perpetuated by society(racism).
It’s one of those band-aid over a gaping wound circumstances I mentioned some time ago. If black enrollment drastically falls bc of its abolishment, then black people deserve to fail.
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Wow, I didn’t realize what an octopus this discussion would have to be. There are so many aspects to it, I hardly know what to address first!
OK I’ll try this one.
King asked: what would you do if people didn’t show up to the PTCs, and also didn’t pay the fines?
Cynic Answered: Idk… I guess after a liberal number of absences the punishment would have to be prison(if they can’t make a reasonable case to the courts).
But then, if the parents of the child were in prison, wouldn’t the sate have to take full custody of the children and pay for their care and guardianship? Wouldn’t this be traumatic to the children, and wouldn’t they resent The State breaking up their family and imprisoning their parents. In the end, would they become better educated, or just more rebellious and anti-social?
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@ Cynic
Birth control pills should be made more accessible for sure. I would actually be fine with paying for them to be freely distributed along with free instruction on their use. I’d rather pay for that than supporting the prison inmates that unwanted children become. Fatherhood and parenting in general is a big problem right now not just with blacks but everyone. However, it does seem to be a bigger problem in the black community.
Accessible birth control would be a big part of ending that cycle of neglect and bad parenting that leads to more of the same. That Orwellian stuff you suggested is nutty though, no need to go that far, just remove the roadblocks that exist between women and their BC pills. Make it SUPER easy.
I was actually a teen parent myself so I don’t see this as a black thing, but it would be a big help to the black community as well as America over all.
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The Cynic
I said nothing of coerced abortions Awryguy
No, you only said that if a woman had too many babies she would pay a fine and possibly be sterilized. Nothing coercive about that.
I am suggesting something different than China’s one child policy(which I think is a good idea).
This is way diff. than China’s 1 child policy. If they go over-limit, they will already have three damn children!
Morally and legally there’s not much difference between a one-child policy and a two-child policy. Either way it’s a horrifying invasion of human freedom.
Bringing up knife attacks when I am speaking of a drastically different policy(no coerced abortions. Two instead of one child) is pointless.
Oh, officially there are no coerced abortions in China. The problem comes when local politicians are given bonuses for keeping their population in check, and begin pressuring doctors to counsel abortion in all cases. Of course, there’s no way the healthcare industry could end up being a political tool in America…
If they don’t want to get a vasectomy(I believe their is specific name for a female version I can’t think of right now) than they can pay a fine. No big deal.
So if a woman has more children than you think she can afford to raise, your solution is to slap her with a fine? That should work out well for her kids. Oh, and those Chinese kindergarten massacres I mentioned weren’t because of forced abortions, they were desperate men lashing out because they couldn’t afford to pay a huge fine to have a second child. So “pointless” it is not, but exactly relevant to your suggestion.
Your perspective is not needed.
Right, because you’re doing fine on your own.
I’m not responding to you anymore.
Your choice to make. I wouldn’t want to debate me either.
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“I need suggestions & feedback from people who are black and grew up around black people.”
dude seriously, you want the government to step in and force blacks to go to PTA meetings under penalty of prison (like we need more BP in prison) but a WP can’t offer any suggestions? you just want us to pay for everything entailed in helping “your people” but we better not say shit about it. Really dude?………Really?
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@King
I’m not sure how you mean this? I mean, clearly some people have pathological problems in their relationships, while others have normal problems.
Considering black marriage & OOW rates, there must be some pathological problems. Unfortunately, I don’t know how to expand on this. I usually base my opinions off of personal experiences AND studies. I have no sociological studies to point to that zone in on why black relationships don’t seem to be as glued cemented as relationships in other groups. I’ve heard it was a lack of good jobs/poverty.
http://www.bostonreview.net/BR36.1/steinberg.php
I need to look into this more. All I know is that there IS a problem here and it needs to be fixed.
@Jas0nburns
I would actually be fine with paying for them to be freely distributed along with free instruction on their use.
-I mentioned the same thing to a friend of mine when we were discussing another friend’s birth. Would you believe she countered that with a story about a roommate who said she couldn’t use birth control pills(that MY old HS friend bought FOR HER) bc she didn’t like the taste? She also said she didn’t use condoms when bc her bf(who abuses her, knocked up some other chick while they were together, and has induced his ex’s miscarriage) didn’t like the way they feel.
Some ppl just make dumb decisions that the rest of society has to pay for. The Orwellian stuff is good. Huge expansive societal change need BIG drastic almost loony ideas.
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jas0nburns
Birth control pills should be made more accessible for sure. I would actually be fine with paying for them to be freely distributed along with free instruction on their use.
I totally agree. Subsidized birth control would pay for itself a thousand times over.
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Hi,
I watched a UK based programme called The Graham Norton Show which featured guest stars :- Alex Kingston, Rob Lowe, Bradly Cooper, Ed Helms and later on Aloe Blacc who sang.
He made reference to Obama’s recent trip to the UK and talked about him going to Ireland to his ancestral village and commented that it ‘seemed so unlikely’!. (I note that none of the guests seemed to agree with him and seem non-plussed at his reaction). He then stated that he ‘probably did it for publicity purposes’. Now, I saw the news footage about Obama’s visit to this part of Ireland and the fact that he met his cousin (8 times removed or something like that) but there was no attempt to make it any less tenuous a link than it really was.
I am confused as to how much political ‘benefit’ could have been gained by visiting this tiny Irish village (though I confess I am naive about politics), but find this dismissive response of the presenter surprising – are there still people out there who really are not aware of how culturally diverse our society really is?
Wondered if anyone would care to comment on this in terms of the fact is the ‘perception’ of the shows host still prevalant in society in terms of your own experiences in the USA whether you are black and talking about having white/other ancestry or the reverse?
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@Demerera
I’m not surprised Obama has Irish roots. During the Potato Famines a third of the population sailed overseas, settled down, and began to have sex with the locals. Pretty much any family that’s been in North America for over a century has some Irish in it somewhere.
I am confused as to how much political ‘benefit’ could have been gained by visiting this tiny Irish village
There are a lot of Irish in America, and they tend to be proud of their origins. It might have scored Obama some votes in the 2008 elections when people were just getting to know him, but at this point I think most people have made their minds up about him one way or the other.
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Hey @Awryguy
Thanks for taking the time to respond to my post and for giving me this interesting bit of history. I also agree with your comment:-
‘There are a lot of Irish in America, and they tend to be proud of their origins. It might have scored Obama some votes in the 2008 elections when people were just getting to know him, but at this point I think most people have made their minds up about him one way or the other’.
I guess I thought this part of Obama’s cultural lineage was ‘common knowledge’ and that it was the presenter who had issues with this being unable to reconcile the fact that this ‘black man’ could possibly have this connection. Maybe that explains his dissmissive and disbeliveing retorts on the matter.
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@Demerera
I also thought that Obama’s ancestry was common knowledge, but that might just be in America. The rest of the world may have heard “America’s first black president” without understanding the peculiar definition of black in America. I know that the Chinese people I’ve talked to (and they LOVE Obama) are often unaware that he is biracial.
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I’m going to title mine.
Affirmative Action
I can give you an example of a certain type of Affirmative Action that you may not be aware of.
In Federal, State, County/Parish, and City, engineering and construction projects, AA has established a designation for certain classes of businesses including Minority Owned Businesses (there are also other requirements). There are percentage set-asides in most government contracts for MOBs.
So why is this needed? Well, if you look at the large corporations, both in Engineering and Construction, most of them started back many decades ago, and benefitted from the Whites only attitudes at the time.
By the time a few Black civil engineering corporations began popping up, they were pygmies, living in the shadows of multinational corporate giants. They simply couldn’t compete with firms that could point back to 60 years of past projects that they had completed successfully. Would you trust your billion dollar freeway or subway system to a company just because of some feeling of owed social justice?
So you have the classic dilemma — you need experience to get the jobs, but if you don’t have the jobs, you can’t get the experience. So young Black guys who had,
1) Gone to college;
2) Worked for years in the engineering business;
3) Pulled together others, and started their own companies;
could only win small, bottom of the barrel, projects to work on, condemning them to always be small fish with small-time project experience.
EXCEPT that there happens to be a form of Affirmative Action that requires the large and established engineering corporations to make a good faith effort to bring in minority owned engineering firms to do a percentage of the work. This way, these Black engineering firms can slowly get relevant experience working on large world-class projects that will someday allow them to compete, on an equal level with the more established White owned firms.
And guess what? Everybody in the engineering world gets it. There isn’t any resentment about it, the need for it is obvious. Nobody is using Black firms who don’t know what they’re doing, just because they are Black. They only select from the minority firms that are building good reputations for themselves in the industry. There are several young, Black engineering firms who are really impressing people all over the industry with the high quality of their work.
Should we make this illegal?
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@King
We are talking about education here. Maybe you should ask Abagond to make that a guest post. I feel black relationships, family structures, schools directly influence education, so that’s why I included corresponding steps to fix that problem.
Should we make this illegal?
Yes, if black people can’t compete, they deserve to fail. I don’t believe in rape victims asking their abusers for cab fare….
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@Awryguy
‘I know that the Chinese people I’ve talked to (and they LOVE Obama) are often unaware that he is biracial’.
Hmmm, not sure about that to be honest with you. Don’t get me wrong, I am not saying the ones you have spoken to are lying but, in my experience, people of Chinese origin have their own issues with skin and colour and this may taint/colour their own perceptions of people.
Of course these ‘issues’ are not exclusive to Chinese people but I do belive that certain people do refuse to acknowledge certain things because it makes them uncomfortable or they prefer to live life in pure ignorance.
Anyway, hope you are having a good day/good evening where you are 🙂
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King: [Minority Business set asides for government Contracts] Should we make this illegal?
Cynic “Yes, if black people can’t compete, they deserve to fail. I don’t believe in rape victims asking their abusers for cab fare….”
Your statement is illogical. The present system is in response to historic disadvantages that were imposed by and upon past generations. The legacy of these imposed disadvantages makes it impossible to have equal competition in the present.
The rapists and victims are gone. Now we’re dealing with how the children of these two parties can get along, and go forward.
The current program is not giving anything away. Those who are eligible have fought their way to the top of their category through education, leadership and competition. They will never displace the current industry leaders unless they work very hard in the future and are very fortunate. Even then, it will take decades.
What is your own solution to the, “you need experience to get the jobs, but if you don’t have the jobs, you can’t get the experience” dilemma?
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@King
“you need experience to get the jobs, but if you don’t have the jobs, you can’t get the experience”
-I already outlined how I feel about education.
“Your statement is illogical. The present system is in response to historic disadvantages that were imposed by and upon past generations. The legacy of these imposed disadvantages makes it impossible to have equal competition in the present.”
-Life is unfair King. It’s not the government’s job to correct legacies created by dead people. Affirmative Action sends the wrong message, a damaging message. I am a firm advocate of its abolishment.
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“Life is unfair King. It’s not the government’s job to correct legacies created by dead people.”
So then, the correction of legacy injustices is not within the purview of the government. For example, the reparations paid to Japanese Americans was actually unconstitutional? Also the Native American tax exemptions like the Indian Employment Credit? None of that is actually the governments job, even though the government has done it, or is doing it?
Is this a constitutional argument?
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“-I already outlined how I feel about education.”
This isn’t a question of education, it’s a question of how a brand new minority-owned civil engineering firm can win their first freeway building contract in an industry that is dominated by much more established White-owned firms.
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@King
For example, the reparations paid to Japanese Americans was actually unconstitutional? Also the Native American tax exemptions like the Indian Employment Credit?
-No, I am not making a constitutional argument. I am making an idealogical one.
None of that is actually the governments job
-I don’t get where you are going with this. The government can do whatever they want as long as it is constitutional. They can choose to attempt to ameliorate legacies of racial inequality, but they don’t have to(and I don’t believe they should).
What is your own solution to the, “you need experience to get the jobs, but if you don’t have the jobs, you can’t get the experience” dilemma?
This isn’t a question of education, it’s a question of how a brand new minority-owned civil engineering firm can win their first freeway building contract in an industry that is dominated by much more established White-owned firms.
-I’m confused. Why are you asking me what my solution is when I didn’t bring it up? I brought up education, remember?
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“-I’m confused. Why are you asking me what my solution is when I didn’t bring it up? I brought up education, remember?”
Because there is a system in place currently, that addresses this problem. It does not send a “wrong message,” unless that message has been that young Black engineering companies can do good work, and can be reliable partners. Nobody in the industry even resents this any more.
But you have proposed that the policy should be outlawed, based on a blanket assumption that all AA = Bad.
My question is, if you want to outlaw the current method for up-and-coming Black engineering firms to gain valuable world-class experience, then is there any replacement strategy, or do you even care about the prospects of such Black entrepreneurs at all?
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It’s not the government’s job to correct legacies created by dead people.”
It isn’t the government’s right to dictate reproductive laws either.
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In other words, Cynic, what I’m saying is that there are SOME varieties of Affirmative Action that encourage people to go to school, begin a career, and found a new Black=owned company. That company then influences the industry, and hires proportionately more Black people. Black end up holding higher positions in the company and have the opportunity to excel.
People outside of these companies get used to to idea of a Black Lead Engineer or Construction Manager. This isn’t some kind of hand out. If these people aren’t qualified, then they lose every job they go after. So so firms do not build Airports.
If I was to change Affirmative Action, I’d start by creating more programs that encourage minorities to get educated and start their own companies. In other words, reduce the person by person, racial bean counting and concentrate more on getting Minority owned companies into the mainstream.
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@Herneith
It isn’t the government’s right to dictate reproductive laws either.
It depends on the courts. The U.S. gmnt actually has a history of dictating reproductive laws. Once upon a time abortion was illegal in most states. Now thx to Roe v. Wade, women can choose whether they wish to go through w/ their pregnancy or not. Does that mean that the government was breaking the law when it was illegal? Was it unconstitutional back then? We live in an ever evolving legal system Herneith. Nothing is set in stone.
Hopefully Affirmative Action laws concerning education will change someday.
@King
Your going way off topic. I am more-so interested in the education aspect of AA laws. All of that business stuff is irrelevant to me. Personally, I’m not listening to all of the unfair cr@p. White people are not born with anything special to help them in life. If blacks are thrown obstacles it’s up to us to compete and get through them. You can’t ask the runners ahead of you to slow down when your in a race and actually expect them to listen. Life just doesn’t work like that.
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“I am more-so interested in the education aspect of AA laws. All of that business stuff is irrelevant to me. Personally, I’m not listening to all of the unfair cr@p. White people are not born with anything special to help them in life. If blacks are thrown obstacles it’s up to us to compete and get through them.”
Then, from my perspective, the problem is that you do not understand systemic advantage/disadvantage. You do not understand that markets can become so dominated by certain interests that it is no longer a question of overcoming obstacles, but impossibilities.
The same thing happened with the old monopolies in the early 20th century. The Federal government had to enact anti-trust legislation in order to make opportunity and competition possible again. Before that point, no amount of elbow grease and good attitude was going to make the slightest bit of difference.
“You can’t ask the runners ahead of you to slow down when your in a race and actually expect them to listen. Life just doesn’t work like that.”
Of course you can. It’s called a false start. One or more competitors “jump the gun” and start the race before the starting pistol is fired. The effect is that they would be given an unfair advantage by started the race earlier than everybody else. In such cases, the athletes are called back to the starting line by a second firing of the starting pistol. They must all come back begin the race again.
This can’t be done in business, so other arrangements have been made. It’s called Affirmative Action.
So what would you like to see changed in the educational aspects of AA?
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@King
Why were the European powers able to conquer virtually the entire African continent?
So what would you like to see changed in the educational aspects of AA?
-I want to get rid of it completely. Allow children to get into schools based on merit.
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sepultura13
I finally have a blog,
link please.
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@ Cynic
“Why were the European powers able to conquer virtually the entire African continent?
Are you asking this only in regard to Africa, or should I also reply with respect to the European’s conquests of all of the Americas and India and much of Southeast Asia, Australia, and eventually Japan?
King: “So what would you like to see changed in the educational aspects of AA?”
Cynic: “-I want to get rid of it completely. Allow children to get into schools based on merit.”
I think I can agree on that point. I believe that those who originally advocated for educational affirmative action, in their heart of hearts, still didn’t quite believe that Black students were capable of competing on the same level as White students.
In my opinion, all of the effort, capital, and emphasis, should have been placed upon training Black kids to become exceptional students, score high on their SATs, and thus place well, and do well, at university. I just don’t think that the originators (back in the 1960s) really believed that that this was possible. It was a “benign” application of prejudice.
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@ Cynic
I’m assuming that you would also get rid of all “legacy programs” and other donor and alumni admission exceptions?
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@King
Are you asking this only in regard to Africa
Just Africa. What “false start” did Europeans get that allowed them to conquer most of the continent? And plz don’t say they started off on the offensive. The first to get the ball is not guaranteed to win the game…
also get rid of all “legacy programs” and other donor and alumni admission exceptions?
-Yes, I would.
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They had better technology. They were simply in a better place to advance their technology. They benefitted from a cross pollination of ideas from different cultures and, in time, were able to build upon these to create a superior military technology. Most African, on the other hand were way on the other side of the trackless Sahara Desert, and inland. They lived much as the Northern Barbarians had before their long contact with the Romans, Greek, Parthians, and Phoenicians. They were not the technological match for the Europeans, just like the rest of the world.
So what? This wasn’t a false start, we’re not talking business now.
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is the commenter cynic= rr?
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@King
we’re not talking business now.
-We are not talking about business now. You changed the subject from education to AA in business and I’ve been telling you for the longest that I don’t care about that.
Point is, Africans were conquered bc they did not have the technology. They lost and they can’t blame anybody but themselves. If Europeans give us a challenge all we can do is compete. Life is not fair, so we can’t expect other groups to fight that way.
They were simply in a better place to advance their technology. They benefitted from a cross pollination of ideas from different cultures and, in time, were able to build upon these to create a superior military technology. Most African, on the other hand were way on the other side of the trackless Sahara Desert, and inland.
-This is called adapting to your environment. If you don’t do that, your dead. Life doesn’t care about deserts and sh*t. Oh, and last time a checked many of those African civilizations were trading with Europeans for centuries b4 colonization.
@Chic Noir
Why don’t you ask me who I am? Who is RR?
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@Demerera
Hmmm, not sure about that to be honest with you. Don’t get me wrong, I am not saying the ones you have spoken to are lying but, in my experience, people of Chinese origin have their own issues with skin and colour and this may taint/colour their own perceptions of people.
Anyway, hope you are having a good day/good evening where you are
Thanks! I live in Shenzhen. So I wasn’t actually talking about Americans of Chinese origin – just straight up Chinese people in China. The reason I take their surprise at Obama’s white parent at face value is that they don’t exactly recieve detailed election coverage here, for obvious reasons.
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“This is called adapting to your environment. If you don’t do that, your dead.”
One thing I picked up from guns, germs, and steel was that small tribal societies in Africa WERE an adaptation to the environment.
There are so many killer diseases over there that the only way to survive was by avoiding large, complex, centralized societies where an outbreak of anything would wipe you out. By staying in small groups away from water (malaria) you were much less likely to contract diseases. Also most of the cattle type animals used for cultivation, food, transportation and muscle power weren’t available in Africa. And the available crops weren’t as energy rich as what was in Europe. So really when you talk about adapting to your environment African’s did really well they just had a tougher environment to adapt to. Europeans just had environmental advantages that allowed them to progress in a different way.
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@The Cynic
Life is not fair, so we can’t expect other groups to fight that way.
Except that as years of affirmative action demonstrate, other groups are willing to give the disadvantaged a boost towards fairness. Is this a pride thing with you?
This is called adapting to your environment. If you don’t do that, your dead. Life doesn’t care about deserts and sh*t.
You sound like some old white farmers I know talking about Native Americans: “It’s their own fault they lost their land, screw’em!”
Sometimes the environment just doesn’t offer much to adapt with. Australian Aborigines had very few resources to work with and nobody to trade with except a few adventurous Polynesians. Would you argue that that it’s their own fault they lost Australia, and that they have no right to any land or compensation for that?
You changed the subject from education to AA in business and I’ve been telling you for the longest that I don’t care about that.
Expanding AA is business was King‘s idea, part of his solution. You don’t want to talk about it. You don’t want to hear my thoughts because I’m white. I don’t think you’re going to get anywhere if you limit the conversation to black people who are fans of the Chinese Communist Party.
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the cynic
sorry that was directed at you.
rr is commenter in these parts. I thought maybe you had a name change.
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What?? You did not specify that you were only talking about AA in regard to education. Here is your original #4 from your four point list above.
4)Make Affirmative Action illegal
Where is the part that says you were only talking about in education?
So then, Vae Victis—Might makes right? Everyone was conquered, at some point, by somebody, because they didn’t have something, it isn’t anybody’s “fault.” The doctrine of arbitrary war is one that no society has really ever fully adopted. The implications become obvious, when applied on an individual level. This is why nations always have to cook up some rational as to why the enemy has somehow provoked war. Nations don’t just say… Hey, these guys have cool stuff that we want, so we’re going in after it!!
If a nation used that rationale on the larger scale, what’s to stop their citizens from adopting it on a personal scale? What’s to stop:
– I’m a General, and you’re a Private, so bring your daughter and your wife over to my tent to entertain me and my officers.
– Nice house you’ve got here, you’ve got 10 minutes to move your stuff, and clear out.
– Your bank account? No, I’m afraid that was confiscated by the Minister of Festivals last week, it’s being used throw a party for the Queen.
Societies would descend into bedlam if “might makes right” was really the way that they did business. Those who had power would run roughshod over everyone else with less power and assassination, deposition, and murder would be happening all of the time.
So societies have certain rules. In the U.S., the rules are codified in our founding documents, such the Declaration of Independence, The U.S. Constitution and the Federalist Papers. So those are the rules that we appeal to. Therefore when we hold up these words
and require the Society that was founded upon them, to honor them and to redress past violations of their own code, we are not asking out of turn. We are citizens of this society, we helped build this society, we have fought and died for this society. All we ask is for an equal chance in this society and sometimes that means that past wrongs must be redressed in order to achieve equality.
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@chic noir
I’ve always commented on this site using this username.
@jas0nburns & awryguy
You guys are totally right. Idk what I was thinking. Your white. Your opinions clearly trump mine. I am just a weak black victim and you are the all powerful white man.
@King
-My post was about how to fix black AI culture remember? All of the steps were either directly or indirectly related to education.
-Black ppl are in this alone. The boot strap option is the only option okay. Racism will never end, so their is no pupose for us to constantly explaining ourselves to whites. It is up to no one, but us to protect ourselves from threats to our prosperity. We must accept competition as apart of life and succeed despite obstcles.
Now, what is your plan to fix black student under-achievement?
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@The Cynic
Really, race baiting? Is that the best you can do when someone criticizes your ideas?
Man up.
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@Awryguy
‘So I wasn’t actually talking about Americans of Chinese origin – just straight up Chinese people in China. The reason I take their surprise at Obama’s white parent at face value is that they don’t exactly recieve detailed election coverage here, for obvious reasons’.
Oh ok, I understand and can appreciate that there may be this lack of knowledge/understanding then.
On a similar but slightly different subject, my friends brother lives in Japan and he encounters much prejudice daily but he maintains that it is the ‘type’ of black man that he is that causes the problem. He said that the Japanese, understand/appreciate/like Black Americans but as he is black British he is viewed with suspicion and mistrust. He says that this is because there are a lot of African guys out there who commit crime and as far as the Japanese are concerned, if you’re not Black American you must be a villain. He has lived out there for 5 years and is always frustrated about his situation. His rationale for staying out there though is that Japanese women make the best wives, better than the western woman, so with his own stereotypical views whilst he is frustrated at his treatment perhaps he understands the Japanese behaviour better than he really thinks!!!!!
‘Thanks! I live in Shenzhen’.
Wow! You’re in China? I just had to look this up on a map lol, my geographical knowledge is poor. I take it that you dont originally hail from this part of the world? Whats it like there?
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@Demerera
Yes, I’ve heard that the Japanese are quite suspicious of Africans. I’m honestly not sure how bad it is here in China. We have had African susbstitute English teachers at the school where I work; then again, there are none on permanent staff, just white people.
I’m originally from Toronto, so I had a pretty good feel for Chinese people before I came here. Shenzhen was just a fishing village 30 years ago and now it has 20 million people, so the contrasts are pretty extreme. Imagine riding on a state of the art subway system, then seeing parents hold up their children so that they can pee out the doors when they open. Or barefoot guys hauling rickshaws along the side of an 8 lane highway. That’s what it’s like here, haha.
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@Demerera again
Funny, my last response to you is awaiting moderation. I thought it was quite harmless.
His rationale for staying out there though is that Japanese women make the best wives
I read a book a while back called Hitching Rides with Buddha (I think that was the title). The author mentioned that quite a few Japanese newlyweds turn sour when they go on their honeymoon overseas. The brides get to see how husbands and wives interact in other cultures, and apparently the result isn’t flattering. He even mentioned a term (wish I could remember what it was) for a kind of wedding where the marriage could be annulled no questions asked immediately after the honeymoon.
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@Awryguy
‘Imagine riding on a state of the art subway system, then seeing parents hold up their children so that they can pee out the doors when they open. Or barefoot guys hauling rickshaws along the side of an 8 lane highway. That’s what it’s like here, haha’
Wow, sounds pretty primitive! But hey, only 30 years of progress as you say compared to years and years in other parts of the world and the standards there arent always much better LOL.
‘The author mentioned that quite a few Japanese newlyweds turn sour when they go on their honeymoon overseas…..the marriage could be annulled no questions asked immediately after the honeymoon’
Wow! Methinks a lot of Westerners would like that law 🙂 Lets hope for his sake his fiance is not privy to this – knowing his luck she would use it!!!!
So, Toronto is where you’re originally from, the largest city in Canada. Going from there to where you are now must have been initially quite a shock to the system I am thinking going from a large area with over 2 million inhabitants to a smaller place with as you say 20 million peeps!!! I am guessing that Toronto is pretty culturally diverse if as you say you have a ‘good feel’ for Chinese people. Are you fluent in speaking Chinese? I always imagine that would be such a difficult language to master.
BTW, how do you make your comments BOLD/Italic?
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@ Awryguy
I would be interested in knowing what it is like to live in China as well, though I may be moving to Taiwan, which is quite different and, judging by the places I’m likely to go, there wouldn’t be this contrast you mentioned!
I lived in Toronto for a few years. There were many areas that were something like 90% Chinese and many Chinatowns. Since I have family there, I frequented those places during my stay. How would you say your experiences there compare to your experiences in China? I’ve always wondered how `authentic’ my experiences there were. Whether it was truly a pocket of Chinese culture or if it was also very westernised and I just couldn’t tell because I haven’t been to China before.
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“Your white. Your opinions clearly trump mine.”
Anything I have said in this discussion I would have said verbatim to a white person. Ideas should be judged based on their merit not who’s expressing them.
The more time I spend here, the more disappointed I get.
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@ Cynic
I don’t get it? What does
2) Reconstructing Black relationships
have to do with education???
You should be careful of making absolute statements. There have been a lot of non-Black people, who are still around today, who went to prison, and were severely beaten, trying to establish civil rights, primarily for Blacks in the South.
http://www.thejewishweek.com/arts/film/rabbi_was_freedom_rider
Some of them are in their graves because of it.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrew_Goodman
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@King
2)Reconstructing Black relationships
have to do with education???
Strong black relationships are the foundation of strong black families. Weak family structures are a thousand times more destructive to the BC than white racism can ever be(in terms of culture). Many black parents do teach their children about the importance of education, thing is, they are often single working class mothers who simply don’t have the time(busy working) to nurture their children to the best of their ability. Also, two parent homes tend to have more money than single parent HHs. This adds to the wealth problem we were talking about earlier.
Remember I said directly or indirectly related to fixing the education problem….
Affirmative Action in business just doesn’t isn’t related to the issue enough for me to focus on it when discussing steps that need to be made to improving our cultures attitude toward education.
You should be careful of making absolute statements.
-No, I shouldn’t. Their aren’t enough around today to making any positive widespread sociologically impacts in the BC. If their were, we wouldn’t be talking about racism all the damn time.
The 12.5 % Black population of the United States is not likely to thrive and prosper without an interdependence on the rest of American society
-Tired of this white God complex. Asians don’t need whites to solve their issues, so why do we? Why aren’t blacks capable? I’m tired of this paternalistic BS. I’m not listening to it anymore.
Again, what is your plan to fix black student under-achievement?
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@King So what happened?
“Since the 1960s blacks have also made gains in education. By the late 1980s the proportion of blacks and whites graduating from high school was about equal, reversing the late-1950s black disadvantage of two to one. The percentage of blacks and whites attending college in 1977 was virtually identical, again reversing a tremendous black disadvantage. Since 1976, however, black college enrollments and completion rates have declined, threatening to wipe out the gains of the 1960s and 1970s.”
Ugh… I hate citations, so I’m just gonna freestyle here. This was Ch. 23 Race, Wealth, and Equality by Melvin L. Oliver and Thomas Shapiro. pg 142 of this book: http://tinyurl.com/3gxyo9y
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Well, we’ve already stumbled over a few of them.
1) A Shift in Educational Intervention Focus
Rather than focusing our efforts at placing lower performing students into university at the END of their educational cycle (based on prescribed ethnic ratios) I believe that the focus of activism should now shift to creating higher performing students at the BEGINNING of education.
Displacing students with higher test scores and GPAs for lower performing Black students causes a plethora of problems. It causes sharp resentment, not only from Whites, but from other competing ethnicities. It also devalues the achievements of Blacks who do place based only on their academic record, because it is often assumed that they are lower performance AA exception admissions. This suspicion is also reflected in the job market, after graduation, in some cases.
A better solution is to divert funds into establishing high achievement systems within the Black community. This probably means a parallel charter school track.
My feeling is to academically do whatever works, no matter what side of the political spectrum the idea comes from.
For instance, here are two charter approaches in Oakland CA
Liberal (very enlightened)
Conservative (very restrictive)
But the Conservative school boasts MUCH higher test scores, and place a much higher percentage of it’s graduates into university. Therefore, in this case, I would recommend the restrictive Conservative approach. Whatever works, screw the ideology.
2) A Shift the Focus of Workplace Affirmative Action
To focus on incentivizing the formulation of Black companies in underrepresented fields such as:
-Information Technology
-Engineering
-Medical Technology
-Logistics
-Financial Management
-Architecture
-Legal Firms
-Real Estate Development
-Business Consulting
etc.
My observation is that Black CEOs, CFO, and CTO know better how to inreach into the Black community to locate, inspire, and mentor Black talent to fill positions in their company.
I happen to know more than a few highly placed Blacks who work for fairly new, Black-owned companies. NONE of them are interested in presiding over “chocolate companies,” but ALL of them would like to have a healthy ratio of African-Americans highly placed in their company’s Org. chart. Many of these are constantly developing their resources within the Black community to find the talent to fill these positions. Some of them are even starting by talking to kids who are showing talent in high school (like a sports agent might). I myself will be talking to a class of eighth-graders next week to get them thinking about opportunities in the marketing field.
The more Black-owned companies there are, the more that they will resource into the Black community and say to Black schools, parents, churches, and community organizations, “Look, I have jobs that I want to fill with YOUR kids, in a few years, YOU need to help us to get your kids ready to fill them.”
That is not a panacea, but it is much better than the current system of only imposing quotas on White corporations and ignoring the aftermath of imbalance left in the business community by years of anti-Black policy and attitudes that have created a White business aristocracy, and a Black business minor league.
3) Wholesale Cultural Rejection of Gangsterism
Lastly, there must be a long overdue push, in the Black community, against gangsterism. For some reason, we have allowed the Black gangster culture to become the most recognizable face of Black America. This was not true in any of the decades preceding the 1990s. We need to pursue an awareness goal that products and personalities who encourage, endorse, and romanticize violence, lawbreaking, drugs, dropping out of school, and misogyny, are harmful to the community at large, and must be spoken out against.
All of the goals above will be made that much harder, if community builders have to constantly fight against the perception that being an uneducated outlaw is somehow cool. It’s easy to speak out against White oppression and injustice in the Black community, but few people want to talk about somebody’s favorite rapper.
I think it would make an enormous difference if a consensus could be formed among established leaders in the community to say, “We’ve had enough songs about drive by’s, dead homies, and what some woman did to you last night. STOP IT.
4) Teen Pregnancy
Big problem, still thinking about the solutions, and can’t articulate anything meaningful as of yet.
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@ Cynic
I’m stuck in moderation.
Short answer to “What happened?”
The milestone corrections that were made were both important and necessary, but some of the solutions were also flawed.
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OOPS! Sorry, I meant to post this as my second YouTube link (when it comes out of moderation)
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Ah… I know exactly how you feel. I’ve been a frequent commenter in many places around the web (under many different names). I’ve been on Latino/Chicano blogs, Asian-Amercan blogs, and Armenian blogs, just to name a few. I just like to try and understand where other people are coming from, and I like interacting with people of different backgrounds. I always disclose up front that I’m a Black person.
But sooner of later, the issue always comes up from someone who disagrees with my opinion:
“What are you even doing here anyway? You’re not even X.”
And I always respond in the same way.
“I’m here to try and understand where you’re coming from, and also to give an outside opinion. That’s something that you can’t do, as an insider. Everyone has to decide whether that’s valuable to you or not, and if the consensus is that it isn’t, then, of course, I’ll stop posting here, with no hard feelings”
In no case, have the majority of people wanted me to leave just because I wasn’t X. But I assure you, it comes up every time.
Now on this blog, there are the usual differences, men vs. women, light-skinned vs. dark, and vice versa. Non-religious against religious, etc. You also have the differences within the diaspora between American, African, Caribbean, and European Blacks. And finally, you have the Racism against other ethnicities.
However, in my experience, it’s not any different at any other popular ethnic-based blogsite—in fact, many are much worse!
Now here, there are plenty of times when posters jump in and make corrections, challenges, and arguments, against racist pro-Black positions taken by fellow Blacks. On the other hand, we also often let them go by.
In your case, and in many others, I don’t jump in and say, “Hey, that’s an unfair position to take against Jason,” because I feel that you are more than capable of holding your own, and defending yourself. My wet nursing would be condescending and paternalistic. So I stay out of it. I’m sure that many people have the same attitude and reasoning. Think of it as a compliment rather than a disappointment.
Silence does not imply assent.
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@King
Thanks. I appreciate it.
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@Demerera
Yes, going from Toronto to Shenzhen was a huge change. Diversity is a big part of it: Toronto is actually the most multicultural city on Earth, whereas Shenzhen feels like it’s 99.9% Chinese… and me. So the first thing I had to get used to was being stared at all the time.
I don’t speak fluent Mandarin yet, but I’ve learnt enough to order food and get around town. I’ve only been here 9 months, but I plan to be here for another year or two so there’s lots of time to learn.
@Iris
I haven’t been to Taiwan, but from what I’ve heard it is much more developed and Westernized (not saying those always go together, but in this case they did).
Rating the authenticity of Toronto’s Chinatowns is tricky. In a way Shenzhen is much like Toronto, in that it is a city full of immigrants from all over China looking for work. There’s no real “local” culture in Shenzhen, and you’re likely to find Hunanese, Sichuanese and Chinese Muslim restaurants standing side by side.
I’m also handicapped in making that judgement because my experiences here are not at all like what a Chinese person’s would be. I get special treatment, either good or bad, everywhere I go.
One thing I can say for sure is that in China people make more use of public spaces. I can’t tell you how many times I’ve been out for a walk and passed a group of hundreds of people choreographing a dance, or doing tai chi.
Chinese-Canadians tend to quickly adopt most of the etiquette of Canadian society, whereas here shoving to the front is more common than orderly line-ups. At first that struck me as rude and confrontational, until I noticed that everyone just shifts about and no one seems to mind.
Last thing: the driving here really is terrible. Not because the people are Chinese, but because most of them have been driving less than 5 years and society hasn’t developed widely known informal road rules. It’s chaos, and the only scarier roads I’ve been on were in India.
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@ Awryguy
Thank you so much for taking the time to answer. It’s very interesting to read.
I’m sorry to hear you get this special treatment. It must make things difficult sometimes, either because everyone dislikes you for being treated well, or because you must endure not being treated well! I’ve heard of, and have partially experienced, the intense staring before. Was it difficult to adapt to that?
Sounds like I wouldn’t have a big problem with the manners or driving. I live in a French city where people in general are aggressively selfish, inconsiderate and rude about taking space and will often try to shove their way into the front of a queue or dangerously zip in between two cars when there’s hardly any space. I’ve seen people stop their cars in the middle of the road at a turning (no parking space, so they just take a space) and hop out to go into a bakery with an angry line of cars stretching behind them! Other people will get offended by all of these actions, but will still do the same thing themselves! Still… it could be worse. I’ve seen Parisians driving over red lights driving at more than twice the speed limit!
You mentioned going to India as well. Do you also travel quite often? Or perhaps you travel for your job?
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@Iris
I don’t mind being stared at anymore, to be honest. People are curious, I get that. Most of the negative experiences I’ve had have been with merchants trying to rip me off, or with girls who have rejected me saying: “But you’re a foreigner!” Despite those occasional setbacks, I have found the vast majority of Chinese people to be welcoming and accomodating to a bumbling stranger in their midst.
Sounds like Paris is good preparation for driving in China. So my only advice will be that if you come here, don’t get in a taxi until you’ve checked it for seatbelts!
I travelled to India and Borneo during Chinese New Year. I was lucky to get a contract with a top-notch school in Shenzhen, and they gave me a fully paid 4 week holiday. India is a unique experience, but I would recommend Borneo, specifically Sarawak. The national parks there are breathtaking, absolutely prehistoric. You kayak down a river and it feels like T-Rex is going to bust out of the jungle at any moment.
If you do wind up living in Taiwan, I highly recommend any bio-themed vacation in Southeast Asia. Jungles are alive in a way that no other environment can match, and you can’t help feeling it.
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@awryguy
Snap! I was going to say the same as Iris about you seeming well travelled. Alas, I have been to a handful of places but have always enjoyed having that ‘new’ exprerience and trying to learn the basics of the native language to be polite/understood.
My stepdads wife said the ‘staring’ aspect drove her crazy when she first moved to the caribbean. She is extremely fair with Ginger hair and Irish to boot so that was another ‘unusual’ slant I guess which made her more interesting.
@Iris – I agree with that you say about France and have seen/exprerienced the same in Italy and Trinindad though in the latter there is a more sinister side to things. You cant leave your passenger door unlocked or your person/wallet on the seat next to you and dare stop at a traffic light where a thief will have snatched it from the car as quick as a flash whilst wildly waving a gun. Happened to my stepdad!!!!!
So, you have maybe another 2 years here – then where too? Or by then, I guess circumstances might intervene and there may be a reason or a ‘special’ person that makes you want to stay put ❤ 🙂
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@King
I am VERY surprised that your comment spoke little of home training/black parenting in regards to education. You somewhat mentioned it with the teenage pregnancies, but surely you don’t believe only black teenagers are failing at raising children?
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There are likely to be a great many things that I inadvertently left out. I also could have spoken to the effects of drug use/sale.
But what are your ideas on that subject?
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I worded that poorly. I meant what are your thoughts on home training.. not drug use.
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@King
I mentioned it already. I believe if we fix Black family structures everything else will fall into place, for the most part. Maybe not at the East Asian academic lvl(that would probably take a dictatorial cultural push), but at least up to par with whites.
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Yeah.. but that’s a tall order.
Take any dysfunctional family from any race. You can say, if you fix this family’s dysfunction, then everything else will work itself out.
But where can you go from there? It’s the “how” that’s not so easy.
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@ Awryguy
I guess eventually you get used to being stared at, though I imagine it’s easier for some than it is for others. I really dislike being stared at, especially if I’m eating! I’m glad to hear you’ve generally had a positive experience with the people, though.
I’m not in Paris, but a lot of Parisians visit here. Actually, I should go visit Paris because I’ve never been there even though I live in France! Oh, yes, no seatbelts! I remember hearing the same thing from someone who lived in Beijing.
You wouldn’t happen to be an English teacher, would you? As in, teaching English as a second language.
Thank you for the recommendation. If I do go, I’ll definitely look into it! While I’m not exactly the kayaking type, I love seeing the different plants and animals.
Have you ever seen large fruit bats and marmosets in the trees? I loved seeing them when I went to Brazil.
@ Demerera
Maybe I live in a bad part, or something, but I’ve actually been warned by people of this happening. Though not with a gun waving around, thankfully! Maybe a pocketknife, though it’s still not something anyone would be eager to have shoved in their face.
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@King
I am not understanding what you are saying. Around seventy recent of black children are born out-of-wedlock. Do you honestly not see what that has done/is doing to our culture???
If you can see the affects of that, then what is the purpose of asking the “where do we go from here” question?
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Of course I see that
I’m just asking realistically, what are the best strategies for changing this. – Preferably something short of mass sterilization and other impractical, “If I were the Emperor” options.
Things that could actually be done in a constitutional democratic republic.
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“Things that could actually be done in a constitutional democratic republic.”
At the end of the day all you can really do is do you and try to set a good example for other people. Crazily enough, this goes for people of any and all races.
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@King
The world is already over-populated. Population control is necessary and inevitable. Its already started in India and China. Personally, I think my idea is better than your’s… nothing
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@King
So you want to push every or most schools in America to the conservative example of charter schools? Or is this just for black(poor?) neighborhoods?
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“At the end of the day all you can really do is do you and try to set a good example for other people. Crazily enough, this goes for people of any and all races.”
You may be right, but I think it’s important to stay open to other ideas. You never know, one of them may work.
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“The world is already over-populated. Population control is necessary and inevitable. “
World population/overpopulation is a complex debate, and it depends on a lot of unkown variables, including future productivity, technology, and sustainability methodologies.
There is also a lot of population politics behind it. For instance, ask the Iranians if they are overpopulated? Ask the Chinese if there is an overpopulation of females (and what that is going to do to their population projections, in a decade or so)
I suggest we don’t get into that, at the moment.
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“So you want to push every or most schools in America to the conservative example of charter schools? Or is this just for black(poor?) neighborhoods?”
No.
In Oakland—given those two models as representative examples—I would have chosen the more viable of the two. However, there are other models that are working in other places.
My only criteria is that whatever models are selected – liberal or conservative, that they produce the desired results. It doesn’t have to be one size fits all, it just has to work.
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@King
I don’t think your idea about a wholesale cultural rejection of gangsterism is feasible w/o a solution to black parenting. Many black people DO speak out against the negative messages that are glorified in the hip hop industry. I’ve only been out of grade school for a minute now and I cannot tell you how many lectures I’ve heard from teachers, coaches, school administrators, bus drivers, guest speakers, and church leaders I have sat through who preached against the evils of hip hop culture. Children hear this ALL THE TIME and yet, it goes through one ear and out the other.
This reminds me of the ‘N’ word controversy. That’s another thing older black folks speak out against ALL THE TIME, but it just never gets through…
It’s unfortunate the lyrics & messages in rap are so horrible, but the reality is the music just sounds too damn good to a lot of people! A lot of black guys might be indifferent to the negative content, but I think most black women are totally against the misogynistic lyrics rappers dish out every other verse/song. Thing is, when they hear Lil Wayne in the club even the feminist can’t help, but dance!
So, yeah. I don’t get how you want stop this force. All of those authority figures I listed can’t seem to stop people from condoning/being complacent about the glorification of gangsterism in hip hop culture and I know most people don’t care about what black “leaders” like Jesse Jackson & Al Sharpton have to say(remember when the NAACP buried the ‘N’ word?).
I think the only way to end “gangsterism” is good parenting from two parent homes. Of course, my ideas about fixing family structures are too “radical” for anybody to want to listen to…
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@ Cynic
Well, I think that part of the problem is that there has never been a consolidated consensus among Black leaders across the board, against gangsterism. You get it from this person and that person, piecemeal from time to time, but it’s always a mixed message, since so many other leaders never touch it.
What I mean is a campaign of consensus building that would encompass political icons, entertainers, sports stars, etc, in addition the teachers and pastors you mentioned.
I mean people like
Oprah
Barrak and Michelle Obama
Colin Powell
Magic Johnson
Jesse Jackson
Will and Jada Smith
Denzel Washington
Rep. John Lewis
You get the idea… this list would be a lot longer obviously, I’m just trying to give you an idea of the type of names who would be on it.
Anyway, people like of that caliber, speaking all at once, in a united voice, and in a prolonged campaign, might be more effective than Pastor Jenkins and Mrs. Johnson’s 8th grade lectures. It would certainly take a serious and protracted effort, and you couldn’t just say STOP THE RAP. You could only ask that they stop harming the community with the negative propaganda. After all, it’s a campaign to make unacceptable unpopular, not an attempt at censorship. The goal is to get entertainers to change, not necessarily to punish them.
Have people try to make the rappers part of the solution too. See if they can imagine a way that the music and the message could change. How can they help the community with this problem and still be true to their goals, and livelihood? But it would have to be something that everybody wants. Who knows? The art of the possible.
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Of course… on the other hand, I’d welcome good parenting from two parent homes. I just don’t know how to accomplish that.
That doesn’t mean it’s impossible. I’m just saying that I don’t have a solution in mind that I believe might will work.
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@Iris and Demerera
Yes, I’m an English teacher at an international kindergarten. My Masters degree was in Modern Chinese History, so when I came here they weren’t going to let me anywhere near the university students! I like the job I have though, it’s easy to keep 3 year-olds entertained and I get lots of paid vacation time. I’ll stay here a few years and travel during my holidays – Outer Mongolia is next on my list – and then probably move back to Canada and reconnect with my family.
I haven’t seen fruit bats in the wild. I want to do some caving, and missed my chance in Borneo. I have seen wild orangutans though, which leaves two more great apes and the blue whale on my must-see animals list.
Did you go boating up the Amazon? I’ve always thought that would be an excellent adventure marred by horrible insect bites.
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Wow! I am in awe of you if you find it easy to entertain toddlers lol. As a mother myself whilst at times I had some success, it is a hard job imo particularly where it is mainly a work in progress to prepare them for primary school.
I used to ‘assist’ at my childrens schools with reading etc from that age onwards and marvelled at the teachers ability to engage with children whilst teaching them something. That being said, children are great teachers themselves and I often came back with amusing/interesting tales to tell about my interactions with them. The most challenging ones I found were the ones who didnt want to read – just play and it was important to navigate that whilst not putting them off learning for good. Even if I managed to get them to read a few words on a page I felt rewarded. To be fair for some, the language barriers are what deterred them but every time I had a ‘break’ then went back I was so amazed by how much they had developed from where they were.
Is English the only ‘other’ language taught in the school that you work in? Once you have completed a couple of years at this level of education is it possible that they may ‘let you loose’ on some of the older kids or is that not necessarily your desire anyway? Btw, why Outer Mongolia?
I salute you @awryguy – nuff respect 🙂
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Do you think it is possible that based upon the false charges of 1 man and his witness a man can be imprisoned now for more then 1 month.
I can tell you that this is possible for anno 2011 this is the case in the Netherlands where a man is imprisoned based on the false charges of a man from Pakistan and his friend who is the witness. Strangely that at the place the accused has supposed to the Pakistany ,brutally wounded him there was a mourning service and that no other person attending that service noticed such brutal attack then the friend of the Pakistani.
Too bad for the Pakistany making false charges the man accused is not a violent person. That is a man that will rather walk away from a fight.
What might be the reason for these false allegations.
Probably the Pakistany need a permit to stay in the Netherlands and some of these people are capable of doing all things only to get their papers or it is his revenge for the killing of Osama bin laden. As all these accusations happend at the time of the killing of Osama. The family of the man imprisoned are suffering now very much for the injustice done to them. A lawyer is working on this weird case.
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Interesting article on sock puppets…
http://www.merge-left.org/2011/05/26/right-wing-sock-puppets-pretending-to-be-liberals-assault-progressive-websites/
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@ Awryguy
I agree with Demerera, you must be quite skilled to keep a group of toddlers entertained!
It must be amazing to see orangutans in the wild. I hope one day, I might also have the chance.
Unfortunately I didn’t get to do something as exciting as boating up the Amazon! The closest to nature I got was walking in the outer edges of a forest, where I saw some fruits I’ve never seen before, wild monkeys, marmosets and butterflies as big as an A5 piece of paper. Though, yes, that experience was filled with many mosquito bites. The bats I actually saw in the city, in small parks. They were not as big as the largest fruit bats in the world, but they are definitely large to someone who is used to tiny pipistrelles!
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@Iris and Demerera
The kids are tiring, but I work with three dedicated Chinese teachers who handle most of the feeding and pants-changing. It’s also very rewarding because they’re such sponges that you see the improvements week to week. It’s a bilingual school and the children get lessons in English and Mandarin, but they all arrive speaking much more Mandarin. My job is mostly to be constantly engaging them: in September most of them were 3 years old and a few were 2, so part of my job is just getting them used to foreigners.
@Demerera
The reason I’m not teaching at the university is that I’m too politically minded. If I had students that age asking me questions about the Communist Party I would end up violating several intentionally murky “state security” laws with my answers. So I work in the most apolitical place on Earth, a nursery.
There are a few reasons I chose Outer Mongolia, but probably the biggest one is that I’m getting a bit claustrophobic living in China. I find myself dreaming of huge open spaces, and Outer Mongolia is one of the least densely populated countries on Earth. I plan to spend 8-10 days on horseback – the land outside the cities is all publically owned, so you can camp anywhere. Plus it’s the land of Genghis Khan and the diet is all meat and dairy, what more could I ask for?
@Iris
I didn’t know butterflies could get that big! I saw a giant red millipede in Borneo, and licked it on a dare. If you ever visit an Iban longhouse in Sarawak, remember that the rice wine catches up to you!
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@ King
you might find these articles interesting.
http://prospect.org/cs/articles?article=race_place_and_opportunity
http://www.inthesetimes.com/working/entry/5763/a_black_agenda_that_works_for_everyone_jobs_and_targeted_universalism/
The more I think about it, the more this concept of targeted universalism seems to be the best way forward for black communities which are struggling in particular and for everyone in general.
As the barriers of racism have come down, black Americans have become more a part of society in general and less of a distinct community. So any program that would target black Americans specifically must take into account society in general. Statistically speaking, black Americans don’t really suffer from anything unique. But they do suffer disproportionally. Out of wedlock births is a good example of this. If for example a program was enacted to target out of wedlock birth rates as a general problem, blacks would benefit from that more than anyone else because it effects them more than anyone else.
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Cool! Thanks Jason, I’ll give them a read.
But you make a good point. The legacy of social integration does makes it more challenging in some ways.
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@ proudchocolategirl
Thoroughness is the essence of Abagond.
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FACT: The White race has crossed seas, harnessed rivers, carved mountains, tamed deserts, and colonized the most barren icefields. It has been responsible for the invention of the printing press, cement, the harnessing of electricity, flight, rocketry, astronomy, the telescope, space travel,firearms, the transistor, radio, television, the telephone, the lightbulb, photography, motion pictures, the phonograph, the electric battery, the automobile, the steam engine, railroad transportation, the microscope, computers,and millions of other technological miracles. It has discovered countless medical advances, incredible applications, scientific progress, etc. Its members have included such greats as Socrates, Aristotle, Plato, Homer,Tacitus, Julius Ceaser, Napoleon, William the Conqueror, Marco Polo, Washington,Jefferson, Hitler, Bach, Beethoven, Mozart, Magellan, Columbus, Cabot, Edison,GrahamBell, Pasteur, Leeuwenhoek, Mendel, Darwin, Newton, Galileo, Watt,Ford, Luther, Devinci, Poe, Tennyson, and thousands upon thousands of other notable achievers.
FACT: Throughout 6,000 years of recorded history, the Black African Negro has invented nothing. Not a written language, weaved cloth, a calendar,a plow, a road, a bridge, a railway, a ship, a system of measurement, or even the wheel.(Note: This is in reference to the pure-blooded Negro.)He is not known to have ever cultivated a single crop or domesticated a single animal for his own use (although many powerful and docile beasts abounded around him.) His only known means of transporting goods was onthe top of his hard burry head. For shelter he never progressed beyond the common mud hut, the construction of which a beaver or muskrat is capable.
FACT: The I.Q.’s of American Negroes are from 15 to 20 points,on average, below those of American Whites.
FACT: These Black\White differences have been demonstrated repeatedly by every test ever conducted by every branch of the U.S. Military, every state, county, and local school board, the U.S. Dept. of Education, etc. The same ratio of difference has held true over a 40 year period.
FACT: With an average I.Q. of 85, only 16% of Blacks score over 100, while half the White population does. The Negro overlap of White median I.Q.’s ranges from 10 to 25 percent– equality would require 50 percent
FACT: The rate at which Blacks commit murder is thirteen times that of Whites; Rape and assault, ten times. These figures, as given by the F.B.I. reports, vary somewhat from year to year but fairly representthe trend for the past decade.
FACT: According to the justice Dept, 1 in every 4 Black males between the ages of 20 and 29 is currently in prison or on probation orparole.
FACT: Though only 12% of the U.S. population, Blacks commit morethan half of all rapes and robberies and 60% of all murders in the U.S.
FACT: Approximately 50% of all Black males will be arrested andcharged with a serious felony during their lifetime.
FACT: A Black person is 56 TIMES more likely to attack a White person than Vice Versa.
FACT: Black rapists choose White victims over half (54.9%) of the time, 30X as often as Whites choose Blacks.
FACT: The annual report from the Department of Justice shows that when Whites commit violence they do it to Blacks 2.4% of the time. Blacks, on the other hand, choose White victims MORE THAN HALF the time.
FACT: In New York City, any White is over 300 TIMES MORE LIKELY to be assaulted by a gang of Blacks than is a Black by a gang of Whites.
FACT: Many people argue that high Black incarceration rates show that police center enforcement at Black crimes and ignore white-collar crimes. However, Blacks commit a disproportionate number of white-collar offenses as well. In 1990, Blacks were nearly 3 times as likely to be arrested for forgery, counterfeiting, and embezzlement as Whites.
FACT: Many people believe that crime is a product of poverty and lack of “advantages.” However, the District of Columbia, which enjoys the highest average annual salaries and is second only to Alaskan personal income per capita, leads the nation in just about every category of crime including murder, robbery, aggravated assault, and vehicle theft.D.C. also has the country’s strictest gun control, highest police costs per capita, highest ration of police and correctional officers per citizen and highest rate of incarceration. Its permanent population is over 80%Black. West Virginia, which has the nation’s lowest crime rate, suffers from chronic poverty and has the highest unemployment in the U.S. It also has the fewest police per capita. West Virginia is over 96% White.
Shall I continue?
FACT: 46% of inner city Black men between the ages of 16 and 62 are unemployed.
FACT: More than 66% of the children of Negroes are born out of wedlock. Per capita, their illegitimacy rate is ten times that of Whites.
FACT: Blacks are four and a half times more likely than Whites to be on welfare.
FACT: More than 35% of all Black men in U.S. Cities are drug or alcohol abusers
FACT: The Declaration of Independence, which contains the oft-repeated phrase “… all men are created equal …” was written by Thomas Jefferson, who owned about 200 slaves at the time and never set any of them free, including the mulattoes and quadroons. Jefferson’s words certainly had no reference to Negroes, who at that time had no place in American society except as property.
FACT: The Constitution was written by and for ‘We the people” and dedicated to “ourselves and our posterity,” All of the 55 delegates that met in Philadelphia to draft the Constitution and all of the members of the 13 state conventions that ratified it were of the White race.
WEBSTER’S DICTIONARY OF 1828 defines Posterity as: POSTERITY. 1. Descendants;children, children’s children, etc. indefinitely; the race that proceeds from a progenitor. 2. In a general sense, succeeding generations; opposedto ancestors…
FACT: In Abraham Lincoln’s Emancipation Proclamation of Sept.1862 he said: “I have urged the colonization of the Negroes,(back to Africa), and I shall continue. My Emancipation Proclamation was linked with this plan (of colonization). There is no room for two distinct races of White men in America, much less for two distinct races of Whites and Blacks…. I can think of no greater calamity than the assimilation of the negro into our social and political life as our equal … Within twenty years we can peacefully colonize the Negro … under conditions in which he can rise to the full measure of manhood. This he can never do here. We can never attain the ideal union our fathers dreamed, with millions of an alien, inferior race among us, whose assimilation is neither possible nordesirable.”
FACT: Lincoln actually proposed an amendment to the constitution that would’ve authorized congress to recolonize all freed Blacks back to Africa. On Aug. 15, l962, Congress did appropriate over half a million dollars for that purpose. Thousands of Negroes had been shipped back when Lincoln was shot.
WASHINGTON D.C.
FACT: The District of Columbia, which is approximately 70% Black,leads the U.S. in many areas:
The nations highest crime rates
Strictest gun control
Highest incarceration rates
Highest birthrate
Highest death rate
Highest rate of federal assistance per capita
Highest number of welfare recipients per capita
Highest rate of illegitimacy
Highest high school dropout rate even though its teachers are thehighest paid in the U.S.
Highest rate of ghonnorrhea and syphilis
Highest incidence of AIDS
PORTUGAL
FACT: Populated by White stock, the nation of Portugal rose in four centuries to be the wealthiest most powerful country in the world. A great commercial and maritime power, it had large colonies in Asia, Africa,and America. Its seamen were the first to explore western Africa and they brought back hundreds of Negro slaves. By 1550, at the height of Portugal’s power, one-tenth of its population were Blacks. Today, Portugal’s populationis described as one of the most homogeneous in Europe, having slowly absorbed the Negro gene pool. As of l975 it had lost all of its outside territories. Its workers are the lowest paid in Europe and they have the highest rate of illiteracy and a high infant mortality rate. In terms of art, literature, music, science and philosophy the “new” Portugal has produced virtually nothing in 100 years and by most standards is the most backward nation in Europe.*Keep in mind that the Black population of the U.S. isapproximately 13%
HAITI
FACT: The Republic of Haiti, the only completely Black republic in the Western Hemisphere also happens to be the poorest country in the Western Hemisphere. It also has the lowest life expectancy, highest illiteracy,lowest per capita consumption of newsprint, lowest per capita GNP, and the lowest level of political stability.
FACT: Haiti once had a promising future. Before 1789 as a French colony under White rule, San Domingo (Haiti) was as rich or richer in productivity as all the 13 American Colonies combined. It was considered the “crown jewel” of the French colonial system, and was in fact the most prosperous colony anywhere in the world. Populated by 40,000 Whites, 27,000 freed Mulattoes,and 450,000 Black slaves and with a bountiful climate and productive soil,it supplied all of France and half of Europe with sugar, coffee, and cotton.But in 1791, the French government issued a decree ordering Haiti to give the vote to the Mulattoes, and soon after another ordering freedom for all the slaves. This resulted in a bloody civil war in which the entire White population (about 40,000 Frenchmen) was murdered, down to the last man,woman, and child. Rape, decapitation, and mutilation were committed almost universally upon their bodies.
FACT: After the Blacks massacred the last of the White populationin 1804, Haiti remained a part of Santa Domingo, until 1844 when it became a separate “republic.” Between 1844 and 1915 only one Haitian president completed his term in office. Fourteen were ousted by armed uprisings,one was blown up, one was poisoned and another was hacked to pieces by a mob. Between 1908 and 1915 the revolutions and assassinations increased so rapidly that a United States military occupation was needed to restore order. This lasted from 1915 to 1934. Thereafter followed twelve years of rule by a Mulatto elite which ended in the resumption of control by the Black military in 1946. Since then wholesale corruption and political murder have been the rule.
EGYPT
FACT: Ancient Egypt was founded and built by Mediterranean Caucasiansas far back as 4500 B.C. Egypt’s period of greatness was from 3400 B.C.to 1800 B.C. and was characterized by its amazing architecture, pyramids,temples, and mastery of mathematics and engineering, the remnants of whichare still evident today. The White Egyptians pioneered medicine, chemistry,astronomy, and law; In many cases, their achievements remain unequalled.
FACT: But, about 3400 B.C. Egypt civilization began to spread up the Nile River, bringing it in close contact with the black Nubians to the south. Soon they were using Blacks for slave labor and Egypt became history’s first melting pot.
FACT: In time the infusion of Negro blood worked itself up from the bottom of Egyptian society. The slaves were eventually freed, received political equality, and took posts of authority in government.
FACT: By the time of King Tut (1370-1352 B.C.) even the ruling classes had been mongrelized and Egypt began a tailspin downward. Today,the once-mighty Egypt is very much a Third World country, having lost its art, its medicine, its architectural ability, and its position in worldaffairs.
The absurd notion that Ancient Egypt was a product of Negro ingenuity is now being widely disseminated in the schools. Though scholars know this is a blatant lie, they justify the deception by assuming it will boost the”self-esteem” of black children
MARTIN LUTHER KING
FACT: On Jan. 31, 1977, Martin Luther King’s FBI records were sealed by court order until the year 2027 because, as his wife said, “its release would destroy his reputation” These records are rumored to contain instances of bizarre sexual perversion and homosexuality, and proof that King was under the direct orders of Soviet spies and financed by the Communist Party.
FACT: The Wall Street Journal (Nov.9, 1990) disclosed that Stanford University editors of The Papers of Martin Luther King Jr. have long known that King was guilty of plagiarism in his l955 Boston University doctoral thesis, having lifted significant portions from the works of other writers and graduate students.
FACT: Martin Luther King frequently enjoyed prostitutes and paid for them with his church’s money. Still, congress has voted to make King’s birthday a national holiday, in most places replacing Columbus Day or Washington’s Birthday as an official observance.
FACT: Almost every state in the union has a King holiday, and almost every city has a King Boulevard or King Civic Center. Yet the electoral evidence suggests that Americans will almost always vote down honors for King when given a chance
MISCELLANEOUS
FACT: The entire continent of Africa, perhaps Earth’s richestland, accounts for only 3% of world trade.
FACT: Almost all Blacks who have been leaders in fields other than athletics or music have had some White ancestry: Fredick Douglas, W.E.B.Dubois, Booker T. Washington, George Washington Carver, Alex Hailey, ThurgoodMarshall, Bryant Gumbell, Colin Powell, Carl Rowan, Ed Bradley, Doug Wilder,etc. According to Dr. E.B. Reuter, “… Of successful and best known men that the Negro race has produced, at least thirteen- fourteenths aremen of mixed blood.
FACT: Blacks are 50 times more likely to have syphilis than Whites.
FACT: Twice as many Blacks as Whites receive dishonorable discharge from the U.S. military.
FACT: A White woman is 15 times more likely to contract AIDS by engaging in sex with a Negro than with a White heterosexual.(U.S. Centersfor Disease Control)
FACT: 90% of U.S. children with AIDS are Black or Hispanic.
FACT: In l950, American schools were among the best in the world. However, vocal elements within our society demanded that the public schools take on a social engineering role as well as an educational one. Violent disruptions of American education were ordered by the Supreme Courtfor the purpose of breaking down racial barriers. For 30 years, American schools have diverted enormous resources into forced integration, quotas,and bussing operations.(Few people realize how expensive bussing is. Annual cost may run into tens of billions of dollars. In l990 California alonewas spending $500 million per year on integration. Many school districts spend a quarter or more of their budgets on transportation. In Milwaukee alone and in a single school year, 30,000 staff hours were diverted into calculating the race of students to attend the various schools.) The results? Today’s students rank at the very bottom worldwide in science and math,some 40% of American adults are functionally illiterate, and standardized test scores have declined steadily for both Whites and Blacks. Today the average White still scores 200 points higher on the combined SAT than the average Black. Americans spend more on education than any other country in the world and have the worst results. Massive White flight to escape racial zoning has reduced the tax base of every major American city. In l983, after nearly two generations of racial experimentation to promote equality, the research arm of the Dept. of Education could not produce asingle study that showed Black children were learning appreciably better after desegregation.
FACT: In Black Africa the average ruler lasts 7 months.
FACT: Dr. William Shockley, Nobel prize winner for his work inthe invention of the transistor and renowned geneticist as Stanford University,said, “The major cause for American Negroes’ hereditary is origin and thus not remedial to a major degree by improvement in environment.”
FACT: In 1988 there were 9,406 cases of Black-on-White rape and fewer than 10 cases of White on Black rape in the U.S.
FACT: The American taxpayers have spent over $2.5 TRILLION trying to upgrade Blacks since the l960’s.
FACT: QUOTES “The Negroes’ rude ignorance has never invented any effectual weapons of defense or destruction: they appear incapable of forming any extensive plans of government or conquest: and the obvious inferiority of their mental faculties has been discovered and abused by the nations of the temperate zone.” –Edward Gibbon, the great historian and authorof THE DECLINE AND FALL OF THE ROMAN EMPIRE,(V.III, pg. 277)
“Whereveryou find the Negro everything is going down around him, and wherever you find the White man you see everything around him improving.” –Robert E. Lee, to Col. Thomas H. Carter, May, l965
Now. I would like any of you Negroes to present me with ANY FACTS at all to back up the shit that flows from you. The proof is in the facts. Negroes are a cancer to any society and until they are exterminated from America we will continue to fall
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@ Greg:
I really hope all that makes you feel better about yourself.
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Hey, Menelik Charles, remember when I said it was best to ignore your post because you wrote the word “FACTS” in all caps?
I just want you to look at Greg’s “FACT” collection and know that I’m an equal opportunity snob.
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The fact that Greg states Its members have included such greats as … Hitler tells you just about all you need to know about Greg.
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Somebody really needed a release I guess. Usually I just go for a run.
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Sigh… why do these guys always feel the need to write an entire manifesto?
Why can they never present one point and discuss that, then move on to another, like a normal, intelligent person?
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Lol! To be wrong, this early in your rant, err…copy-paste, is a bad sign.
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Lol! yeah, the entire rant is cut an pasted together from other sources from mostly White supremacist web sources.
This guy doesn’t have an original thought in his vacant head. He doesn’t even seem to be capable of summarizing other peoples thoughts into his own words. It’s just raw cut at paste the “smart sounding” words from his intellectual betters.
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Still trying to get to grips with the italics etc so apologies if this doesnt come out right…
FACT: Almost all Blacks who have been leaders in fields other than athletics or music have had some White ancestry: Fredick Douglas, W.E.B.Dubois, Booker T. Washington, George Washington Carver, Alex Hailey, ThurgoodMarshall, Bryant Gumbell, Colin Powell, Carl Rowan, Ed Bradley, Doug Wilder,etc. According to Dr. E.B. Reuter, “… Of successful and best known men that the Negro race has produced, at least thirteen- fourteenths aremen of mixed blood.
Negroes are a cancer to any society
Clearly the ancestors of these prominent black people were not aware of the so called ‘dangers’ of having sex and impregnating black women and creating a new generation of mixed/black people. Huh, I guess they were ‘forced’ to ‘lower’ themselves to this standard, either that or they were not aware of simple human biology!!!! Tut tut tut, and I thought that this particular post was trying to highlight and reflect on a past superior race of being….
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LOL, my post kinda worked but didnt want the last bit to be bold….oh well, better luck next time.
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FACT: We are all descended from Africans.
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Much of what Greg cut and pasted can be found here:
http://www.mdcbowen.org/p2/rm/white/100lies.txt
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Yeah, I notice this as a familiar pattern when it comes to racist repeatospeak.
There is always one piece of master propaganda that gets cut and pasted to death! The poster (or in this case, paster) almost never sites the source, or indicates in any way that he is presenting someone else’s work and words.
I have not observed this with other supremacist groups, but maybe I haven’t been digging deep enough to discover it?
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FACT: The I.Q.’s of American Negroes are from 15 to 20 points,on average, below those of American Whites.
Why then waste your time pontificating to a bunch of dumb kneegrows? Otherwise, what’s the point of your post or do you actually have one? Oh I get it, you hate kneegrow, just say so! Hahahah!!!!!
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@ Herneith
“Otherwise, what’s the point of your post or do you actually have one?”
Well, it’s not really “his post.” You see, he took about 22 seconds to cut and past a gaggle of fool facts from HatesRUs.com And then he demand that everyone answer them immediately!
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@King:
I can’t help it, I find these clowns to be hilarious, endless fodder for comic posts. They remind me of ‘madmen’ who wonder up and down the road screaming obscenities at cars and pedestrians. Usually they are talking about something, but I doubt they know what it is hence it comes across as lunacy to those who hear or read their words. There is an eerie similarity between these ‘madmen’ and these posters.
@Greg:
Cogitate, don’t haterate!
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@ Herneith
Haha! Cosign 🙂
@ Greg
That’s “C-O-G-I-T-A-T-E”
http://www.dictinary.com
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@ bulanikgirl:
Not sure what the problem is… You can comment anonymously, but ideally you should click on “Name/URL”, and enter your name (you don’t have to enter a URL). If you still can’t do it, send me an email (you can find it on my profile page) and let me know what the problem is.
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Being that this is an open thread! I’ve got a question for you guys or girls.
Do you guys (or girls) like to stay in shape and if you do what activities do you do to maintain your shape?
I’ll start:
I’m not as fit as I can be or used to be (I’m 25 years old, 5’10” and 235 pounds. I don’t look fat thanks to my dad’s genes. I’m a heavy set mesomorph!)
However I do practice martial arts mainly self defence and I’ve got into cycling and I occasionally hit the gym to lift weights.
I hope to hear from you lot.
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@ vindicator
I jog about 3 miles every other day and use a cable weight machine that I purchased, on off days, because if I have to get in my car and drive to the gym, I don’t go enough. I ride my bike for pleasure.
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I guess I’ve gone overboard in arguing that mixed people are a distinctive social category. As Greg’s post indicates, even white supremacist types are aware that B-W multiracials exist and have achieved much over the course of American history. Whether they are officially considered part of a Negro caste or an independent mulatto group, they can’t be erased from social consciousness.
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I believe that all drugs should be legalized. I don’t advocate the use of any hard drugs, but I would much rather let the druggies get their fix then allow criminals to profit from disturbing communities, economically & socially, with drug-related violence. I say let the crackheads and their ilk die. Sounds harsh, but I don’t consider it anybody’s fault, but their own.
Short version
Long
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“Do you guys (or girls) like to stay in shape and if you do what activities do you do to maintain your shape?”
I play basketball for about an hour 5 days a week. I love it!
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@Bulanikgirl
Yes, drug users should be treated like patients and not criminals. However, I cannot make anybody’s choices for them.
I thought this was a really great documentary. It’s probably on Netflix. I cancelled my account a while back so idk. Just PLEASE IGNORE all of Ricky Ross’s blame the whitemanism in the doc and listen to the facts. Black ppl dealing/selling drugs inside of poor black communities is akin to Uncle Tomism.
Counter-opinions are greatly appreciated!
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@Bulanikgirl
Hey, we’ll get there in the end i’m sure lol.
@Jas0nburns
I like to keep fit and was doing martial arts until earlier this year when I fell ill and had to stop. Doing other things now to keep me in check though such as Zumba.
Anyone else do Zumba? I used to go to a class but do it on the wii now, its fab 🙂
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Going to the gym 3-4 times a week, lifting weights, not so hard as years ago. Power lifting back then. Also done judo, boxing, american football, karate and some. Now, just to keep insome sort of shape.
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Am I the only one who thinks that Abagond is really anti-white? 😀
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“Do you guys (or girls) like to stay in shape and if you do what activities do you do to maintain your shape?”</em.
I shop till I drop!!!!
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@ Dude
it would be better if you gave an example.
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@Vindicator
I spent years working out constantly, but after the first year I never saw much change to my build. I’m an ectomorph (although those categories are outdated), and I found it near-impossible to gain muscle. I wasn’t willing to become a “creatine and protein powder” guy, so I mostly gave it up. Now I do yoga a couple times a week to keep my back loose, and that’s about it. My biceps are starting to fade, but the way I burn fat I’ll have a six-pack until I’m eighty,
@The Cynic
Yes, legalize it! For the sake of every country South of America being overrun by drug cartels.
Although as a Canadian I pause to consider that growing marijuana for American consumption is actually our 2nd most valuabe export business, after wheat.
@Dude
No, I don’t think Abagond is anti-white. He often writes about things that are embarassing (or should be) to white people, but I’ve always found his treatment of the subjects to be fair.
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@ Dude:
Anti-white? Not really… maybe just a little bit.
The reality is that if you tell the truth about the history of race relations, you will sound anti-white.
Abagond presents the truth as he sees it, and he’s mostly correct I think. I think he does have a slight prejudice against white people that sometimes comes through, but I don’t think he’d deny it.
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Yes, you are.
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I got your emails. Thanks. It looks like it would be a good topic.
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http://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/2011/05/16/apparent-immunity-gene-cures-bay-area-man-of-aids/
Interesting article about a man that was “functionally cured” of the HIV virus via bone marrow transplant.
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Not yet, I’m still an undergrad but I plan on going to medical school.
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I heard stories of celebrities and other well-to-do individuals going to France after years of debauchery & substance abuse, and having their blood removed, ‘cleansed’ and restored. From what I heard it also cures HIV, but is only available to those who can afford to pay for it.
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Yeah Y, I read that article last week. Very hopeful!!
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@ proudchocolategirl
Natasha W answers it the best thus far:
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Every man should lift weights. It should become a habit for him.
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HIV or aids does not magically go away even with blood transfusions or “change of blood”. The virus is in cell level, so it does no exist only in blood cells but elsewhere too.
All talk about cleansing blood, chainging ones blood etc. as a cure for aids is not only poop but also very dangerous. It could make some people believe that there is a cure. There is none. Only treaments. Just to remind everybody here.
Take care of each other, use protection, be aware and help those who are positive. And most importantly: DO NOT THINK THAT THIS DISEASE HAS BEEN DEALT WITH. IT IS STILL AMONG US.
I’ve lost friends so this is not something “out there” for me. Luckily I’ve been safe and stayed healthy.
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I don’t said anyone said anything about blood cleansing to cure rid the body of HIV. For years there has been talk about humans who are immune to the virus. This is just an interesting case of a HIV+ who got a bone marrow transplant from an HIV immune that functionally “cured” his illness.
Nobody is suggesting this treatment should be applied to any and all HIV+. Like the article said it’s quite dangerous to tamper with white blood cells, especially the WBC of someone with a compromised immune system.
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Okayyyy, and here we go…
***Caveat***
Let it henceforth be known that there is not now [as of the date of this comment] a cure for HIV, and that hearsay stories from Parfum Bleu do not constitute(and were never meant to be misconstrued as) proof of any type of a cure for HIV, or anything else…
…you may now return to your regularly scheduled programming. Thank you.
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Yes, Natasha W explained the testosterone thing the best. Saying someone has “higher than average” if you dont take into account their body size and the levels of other hormones (notably estradiol) in the person’s system.
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@ Abagond
Been meaning to tell you this for a while now. Your link to the website Whitewatch is the old one, that was disabled due to multiple (admitted) false ToS reports filed by angry Stormfront posters. The new site that’s been up for a long time now is…
http://Whitewatch.info
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If any of you live in Oakland, keep your eyes open for this guy.
http://www.rawstory.com/rawreplay/2011/06/woman-captures-attackers-image-on-video-wants-it-shared/
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Hey I thought you all might want to know I figured out the whole achievement gap thing! All you have to do is keep doing what you’re already doing! making WP feel like crap about themselves!
That’s how POC got behind in the first place right? WP made POC feel like crap about themselves and so they started falling behind. And look at what the feminist movement has done to men. We are all getting laid off and going to prison while women are getting all the jobs and advanced degrees! All because they made us feel all guilty and confused about manhood!
So POC, you’re on the right track! just keep making white people feel ashamed for being born and pretty soon we will just step aside and let you take over.
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Has anyone read “The End of Anger” by Ellis Cose and have an opinion about it?
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@Jasonburns
First off, what the hell happened to the ‘0’ in your name? Secondly, that sounds interesting. I always thought white self-hatred/guilt was a made up thing. Is it real? If so, you should consider teaching us a little something about it by doing a guest post.
That topic reminds me of a story I was recently told by an old HS friend of mine. My old HS friend works as a counselor at a summer camp. At her camp their is a young white girl, adopted by black parents, who hates herself. Most of the kids in the camp are black or mixed race and she feels like she will never be accepted bc she is white. She thinks all the other kids are racist bc they call each other(and her) the ‘N’ word while she(lil white girl) doesn’t feel comfortable saying it. She told my friend who works as a counselor that she hates herself and wishes her skin was darker and hair curlier like everybody around her. Strange stuff, but I guess it’s somewhat expected. Humans are psychologically predisposed to want to fit in. Considering the complex sociological relationship btwn the black & white races in America, I guess I can understand how she can believe her “whiteness” will prevent her from being accepted by the other children.
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@jasonburns
And look at what the feminist movement has done to men. We are all getting laid off and going to prison while women are getting all the jobs and advanced degrees! All because they made us feel all guilty and confused about manhood!
So men are going to prison because feminists made them feel confused about their manhood… do you think they’re dropping the soap a lot in the showers?
You need to stop thinking of everything in “us vs. them” terms. It is possible for things to get better for everyone.
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Nobody has to feel like crap about themselves. The most basic misunderstanding that we have today about race relations is that we somehow expected centuries of long-tem problems and conflict to all be cleared up in a few magical decades. But human conflicts worldwide tend to be multi-generational, and the law of vendetta is much more common than the rules or reconciliation.
This unreasonable expectation causes Blacks to think that as soon as the laws change, that society will change, and when it doesn’t, they immediately assume that it must all be a hoax, and that in fact, nothing has changed. It also causes White people to look at the progress that has been made, and despair, because Blacks seem to be cynical, angry, reproachful, and unresponsive to newly available opportunities.
What it comes down to is that most of us are not mature enough to accept that there are some things that we must wait for. And there are things that simply may not come in our lifetimes, because some wounds are that slow to heal. And that’s OK. But we can appreciate and acknowledge the changes of today. We can revel in our time, knowing that it has brought us better days in race relations than our parents and grandparents ever experienced. And for those things that are yet to be healed, we continue to work towards those goals, without bitterness, and useless impatience, but rather with hope and determination.
I was driving through the “Old Town” section of Pasadena in the early afternoon.
I began to notice all of the people on the sidewalks pouring in and out of the fashionable stores and restaurants. It was like watching lunch break at the U.N building. There was no predominate race on those sidewalks. They were bustling with Persians, East Asians, Filipinos, Latinos, Whites, East Indians, and Blacks, not only as separate tribes, but in groups of friends, and as IR couples holding hands, and stopping to glance into the large display windows of Banana Republic, Chico’s, and French Connection.
Then I noticed a trail of kids winding their way down the sidewalks on skateboards: A Black kid, two Latinos and and White kid. They looked to be about 12 or 13, and were all dressed in the same skater boy style, laughing, and talking, one of them licking a yogurt cone. When I was a kid, almost all of my friends were Black, yet these kids seemed to not even notice that they were from different racial backgrounds. Gone was that color-coded world that was my reality as a kid, now replaced by a world were these kids seemed to hang out based on what they liked to do, an what kind of music they listened to.
Now, I’m not naive enough to think that this is happening everywhere. I know that racism is still alive both in Blacks and Whites, but I think that I can see that a different world is now possible. But that world will not be perfected in our lifetimes, and that’s has to be OK.
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The same here. Due to the facts that:
1) I have yet to witness it in real life
2) Only white folks and house negroes seem to notice it
…I came to the conclusion that it was just some kind of rhetorical trick.
Notice how the “white guilt” meme is only summoned by white folks who, interestingly enough, don’t feel guilty of anything.
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@ Dahoman X
White Guilt Pusher, White Self-Hater, White Guilt Loving Liberal, etc… are all just sanitized new millenium versions of “Nigger (or a derogatory term for any other non-white person) Lover.” This becomes increasingly obvious when you look at the the context in which those “insults” are used.
– Mention a problem of a non-white group that was created by whites? “White Guilt Lover”!
– Mention a problem of a non-white group that is still maintained by whites? “White Guilt Lover”!
– Mention a negative aspect of horribly over glorified white history? “White Guilt Lover”!
The list of examples is endless…
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Dallas better win tomorrow
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@king: Wise words. This will happen, perhaps not in our life time, but it will.
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So glad to see the Mavs win, finally!
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@Y: I watched the game and remembered your words there. Had to smile when they won.
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Notice how the “white guilt” meme is only summoned by white folks who, interestingly enough, don’t feel guilty of anything.
The only time they feel guilty is when they are called out on their behaviour. Sort of like a criminal being caught, going to court, and professing remorse for his crime in order to get a lighter sentence. A code phrase I particularly enjoy, is ‘playing the race card’. when ever it is perceived that your group is using it to get ‘something’ at the expense of whites. I just tell them that they are holding all the aces. Their reactions range from being speechlessness to anger.
Yes, this code is designed to shut one down, unfortunately, this ‘code’ has endless variations as Franklin wrote.
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@Herneith
Yeeeeaah…I’m gonna have to borrow this for future applications.
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Speaking of applications…
Last summer I signed up with a government program that helps recent graduates find work. One of the personal information questions was: “Are you a minority?”
Now, this was a City of Toronto program. A city that is slightly over 50% non-white. Essentially everybdoy in the city is a minority because there’s no longer a majority group. Talk about an outdated form. It felt wrong to claim to be part of a majority that doesn’t exist anymore, like I would be overselling my ethnicity’s presence in the city.
So I checked “minority”, but added (“white in Toronto|) to make sure they didn’t give me any jobs intended for non-white people.
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But there is a majority group and that is whites. Despite being from diverse European backgrounds, they will all unequivocally claim they are white. You don’t have Chinese, Koreans, East Indian, Pakistanis, Tibetans, Philippines etc, claiming they are black. I’m not talking about the myriad ethnic groups, who, when combined, make up this majority. They are not a cohesive group. They are treated based upon how they are perceived by whites as groups. So whites are the majority. How many black people do you see in the upper echelons of power? Most are white. I find it telling that a city that is a little over half ‘non-white'(an ignorant, racist phrase), doesn’t have the same representation in the corridors of power. There is something systemically racist about that. The last two elections, municipal and Federal, are glaring examples of this. What ethnicity? Whites are seen as the default culture, ethnicity etc., unless they are pseudo-whites like Italians, Greeks or Jews. That to is telling. Even the Northern Italians make sure they distinguish themselves from their darker Southern brethren.
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I don’t play the race card. I like throwing the nazi card around as often as I possibly can, tho! Lol. 😛
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@Herneith
You said:
But there is a majority group and that is whites.
Later you said:
I find it telling that a city that is a little over half ‘non-white’(an ignorant, racist phrase)…
If you are comfortable defining a group of people as “whites”, how is it ignorant and racist to also have “non-whites”?
Despite being from diverse European backgrounds, they will all unequivocally claim they are white.
Well, no. I would never claim to be anything other than Canadian, and of Irish descent if I wanted to look further back. Being “white” is just an automatic label for most of us, something that happes when no one bothers to learn your ethnicity anymore. It’s not something we actively lay claim to.
How many black people do you see in the upper echelons of power? Most are white. I find it telling that a city that is a little over half ‘non-white’(an ignorant, racist phrase), doesn’t have the same representation in the corridors of power. There is something systemically racist about that.
I honestly don’t follow the municipal elections that closely, especially now that I’m like 10,000 miles away. From my scanty memory of the city council, there’s an asian presence but not much of a black one, correct? I agree that many ethicities are under-represented at City Hall. Systematic racism is possible, but remember that politics is all about connections, which means it takes a few generations for any immigrant group to gain momentum. Looking at the current roster, I’m struck by the large number of Italian surnames, and the growing number of Chinese. I suspect that we’ll see increasing numbers of East and West Indian representatives in the next couple decades.
Whites are seen as the default culture, ethnicity etc., unless they are pseudo-whites like Italians, Greeks or Jews.
The funny thing is that being the default is not at all what most of us want. Most of my “white” friends would prefer to be identified by the European ancestries, mostly because it’s a hell of a lot more interesting than being the default; but also because it recognizes the variety of ethnic influences which actually make up the national culture.
Also, Italians and Greeks are considerd “pseudo-whites”, as you put it, by anyone under the age of 70 (nor by my grandparents, who are well past that marker). I don’t even know where to begin with that classification for Jewish people, except to say that most people I know are sensible enough to know that Judaism is a religion, not a race.
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Whoa, my last post needs an edit!
“Also, Italians and Greeks are not considered “pseudo-whites”…”
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It’s funny. If this was a basketball game, rather than a hockey game, this would be all over the internet, with pages and pages of comments about Blacks acting their color. Whenever the Black criminal element acts up, it’s because of their skin color/culture. But I guarantee you that today, there were no comments on Google or YouTube about how degenerate, violent, destructive, White people need to just go back to Europe.
http://sports.yahoo.com/nhl/blog/puck_daddy/post/Gallery-Shocking-scenes-from-the-Vancouver-Game?urn=nhl-wp7358
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@King:
Everytime those suckers loose a hockey game they riot. Personally I hate hockey. The only time I watch it is when I am flicking the channels when commercials are on and they are beating the crap out of each other. The rioters are dumb because most of the hockey players are Canadian anyways. Those Vancouverites are weirdos anyways! Hahahahaha, crack out the hockey sticks!!!!!!!!!
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@ Herneith
Lol! I remember a big riot in 1994??
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Oh that was me trying to get into Honest Ed’s when they were giviing away free turkeys!!!
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@ sam
🙂
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@king, herneith: Well, in Europe we have this thing called football hooliganism, which is somehow almost considered being part of the game. Names like football hooligans and football fans are used to describe the very same guys… Just to show you how we the white people really react on some sports.
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@Bulanikgirl:
I don’t know about that. I thinks these clowns were pi$$ed off by the fact the they missed the linen sales, ’95 % off all Egyptian cotton sheets and towels, 5 miilion thread count!” When they realized they missed out due to the stupid hockey game they enacted their revenge! They even came prepared with molotov cocktails and gasoline!
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Vancouver is also a hotbed of young anarchists, and they were the ones stoking the fires. Not that the hockey fans weren’t behaving like drunken idiots.
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Yes, but after the LA Lakers victory riot of 2009
Far too many of the comments on newslink sites were like this
or like this
or even this
This is the essence of “White Privilege.” When White people riot, it’s just “Anarchists” or “troublemakers.” But when people of color riot, it’s an evolutionary throwback to their barely restrained, bestial natures.
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Sorry King.
It was white anarchists. Real pale buggers.
But yeah, the stereotyping you pointed out is real and disturbing.
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I don’t disagree that it was indeed White anarchists in Vancouver ,awryguy
I’m just saying that when the Black and Latino anarchists do likewise, that it should be viewed in the exact same light, and end with with the term “anarchist” instead of “nigger” and “wetback.”
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@King:
Those commenters sound like a cunning array of stunts!
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@ Herneith
Yes, no doubt, LA’s finest expatriates weighing in.
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@King
I totally agree with your point about racial perceptions and rioting. Really I just wanted to stick up for hockey fans! I hate to see us stereotyped as violent drunks.
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Ah criminy, too much bold.
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“5 Celebrity Careers Launched by Ethnic Makeovers”.
Funny stuff.
http://www.cracked.com/article_17501_5-celebrity-careers-launched-by-ethnic-makeovers.html
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This riot was not the work of anarchists/libertarians. It was a bunch of middle-class white kids:
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/british-columbia/gary_mason/busting-myths-of-vancouvers-destructive-stanley-cup-riot/article2063729/
This is another dodge; whenever whites riot, it is ‘Commies’ or ‘Anarchists’.
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@Herneith
Sorry, where in that article does it say “middle-class white kids”? Or does it deny the role of anarchists? The closest it comes is to say “20-something males” and to point out that there were hundreds involved in burning and looting.
I said that Vancouver was a hotbed of young anarchists for a reason: there are literally hundreds of them. They are the same people who massed in Toronto for the G20 and started a turf war with the police.
Yes, they’re almost all white, at least as far as I could see under the hoods and bandanas. Probably a lot of them are middle-class, or at least started out that way. But that doesn’t change the fact that they’re anarchists.
Without the anarchist factor this riot probably wouldn’t have turned so ugly. Herd mentalities are very powerful, and when you’ve got dozens of guys getting things started by torching cop cars it sets a nasty tone.
King is telling me that when people of others ethnicities riot we should acknowledge the political factors; Herneith, you want me to ignore the political factors and focus on race.
Saying “It was a bunch of middle-class white kids” is about as fair as summing up an L.A. riot as “A bunch of poor black guys”.
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Well, what I have seen around the world, when sports events ignite rioting, it is not about any kind of politics. It is about either loosing or winning, on the field or pitch, or on the sreets. To claim that some sports hooligan is rioting because of his/hers political agenda, anarchism or any other, is very funny. I remember when one english hooligan was interviewed and he was asked what was his political stance, the guy answered at once: Chelsea FC.
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Here is the chant of the legendary Millwall FC from London. This is the political stance of the fans: “No one likes us, No one likes us, No one likes us, We dont care! We are Milwall, super Millwall, we are Millwall, from the Den!”
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“King is telling me that when people of others ethnicities riot we should acknowledge the political factors”
I did? Well, all I meant to say was that whatever the motivations, that all ethnicities should benefit from the same assumptions and benefit of the doubt.
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@Sam
I guess I’m not being clear. What I’m saying is that there was a large group of youth – maybe a hundred or more – who set out to start a riot. This is what they do at every opportunity. They were aware of the huge potential for a mob to form after the game, and they were waiting with petrol bombs and ski masks.
Which assumption do you think is wrong?
1) There are a large number of anarchist (or anti-government) activists in Vancouver.
2) Anarchists were able to anticipate the riot potential of that hockey game.
3) They were waiting to get things burning.
@King
Your words were:
I’m just saying that when the Black and Latino anarchists do likewise, that it should be viewed in the exact same light, and end with with the term “anarchist” instead of “nigger” and “wetback.”
I don’t think we’re promoting that goal if we accept that this riot was just “a bunch of middle-class white kids” who for some reason chose police cars as the focus of their rage. I think that choice of target demonstrates political intent – and even if it was just random hockey fans stuffing flaming rags into gas tanks, aren’t we at all curious about WHY?
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@awryguy: I think there are some airhead guys in town who call themselves anarchists because they are too embarassed to be calling themselves as hooligans. Same thing as in Germany. Khaots, autonomes, and other “leftwing” groups do the same as skinheads, neo nazis and hooligans. They want to smash things, create chaos and fight with anybody and cops but have gone too many years at school to call themselves just hooligans. They are hooligans but shy from the name, hence “the anarchists”. Pathetic. And funny too.
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@ all: this is next up here!
http://www.bbc.com/travel/feature/20110614-finlands-midsummer-madness
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I’ve noticed that Bermuda (an island that once prized “fair skin” and “good hair”) has had a decidedly more inclusive definition of beauty in recent decades. Good to see.
http://worldshowbiz.info/beauty-contest/more-photos-of-jana-lynn-outerbridge-miss-bermuda-2011/
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Hi all,
Has anyone seen the ‘movie’ Fire in Babylon? I would certainly recommend it, particularly to those first/second/third generation West Indians like myself though of course, not exclusive to us. Despite being about the West Indian cricketers of the 70’s, 80’s and early 90’s this is an inspiring film not just for sports fans or people who like to watch the underdog pull through with true grit and guts. I felt their shock and disappointment when they said that they thought that cricket was a ‘gentlemans game’ but when they started touring they were treated appallingly and playing with people who’s sportsmanship was questionable at best. As has oft been said on these forums though, when they fought back, they were deemed unruly and agressive and had really bad press with the media calling for the return of the more docile seeming happy go lucky calypso cricketers of the 50’s and 60’s. Despite all the political and social turmoil the Islands managed to unite and ‘fight’ racism and oppression in their own way – out there on the field.
Don’t be deterred that its about Cricket, its not as in the words of the song ‘I don’t like cricket…..no no, well, not particularly anyway.
A 15 year reign on the cricket field man, the longest reign by a nation on a particular sport.
Anyway, anybody who has happened to watch it I would love to hear what memories it conjured up for you 🙂
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Well, at least some of those who chose police cars as targets where middle class athletes, it would seem.
http://www.thepostgame.com/features/201106/vancouver-rioter-elite-canadian-athlete-makes-teary-confession
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@King
Yeah I heard about that kid. The riot looks even stupider when you focus on the individuals involved. Good riot footage here:
I see at least a couple guys who clearly came prepared to destroy stuff, most obviously that guy at 0:55 with the huge knapsack, bandana and camo pants.
Obviously it’s mostly drunken hockey fans though, and you can tell the two apart because one group had the foresight to cover their faces in front of the cameras.
@Sam
I think you’re right and a lot of hooligan types are drawn to anarchism as an ideological excuse for their destructive impulses. But I also think they believe their own nonsense, and they’re acting on it.
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Another riot video, this one for the purpose of shaming those involved.
Look a bit closer and you might notice that the rioters aren’t all white, or even all men. As befits a progressive city like Vancouver… well, except the riot part.
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*Sigh* More yellow peril:
If many start to believe this, to fear Chinese people and then their fear turns to hatred, all East and South East Asians are going to suffer because `they all look alike’.
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@Iris
It’s not even the ignorant (and absurd) fear-mongering that really bothers me – it’s how effective I know it will be. And it makes no sense!
There’s a reason the Chinese government chose to invest in America rather than drop those hundreds of billions on more fighter jets. The 20th century could have been dominated by Russia or Japan, and believe me the Chinese are glad it was America instead.
The Party can’t handle expansion right now either, as they’re having enough trouble just holding the country together. Even if they were in militaristic mode, there are dozens of closer and easier targets – America being arguably the most difficult country on Earth to occupy.
In sum, there’s no way Chinese soldiers are goose-stepping through the streets of Washington before technology reaches the point that physical bodies have become redundant.
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Vancouver Police Chief Jim Chu specifically mentions anarchists in this article:
http://ottawa.ctv.ca/servlet/an/local/CTVNews/20110616/vancouver-riots-110616/20110616/?hub=OttawaHome
This part is interesting:
Police saw offenders carrying gasoline and fire extinguishers with them, suggesting that some of the people involved had come prepared to cause trouble.
I understand that the Police Chief is inevitably going to be doing some public image work by saying that most of the worst offenders were from outside Vancouver, but seeing how many of the thugs managed to bus to Toronto for the G20 riots I’m sure there’s some truth to that.
And nobody brings gasoline and a fire extinguisher to a hockey game.
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Two new very important studies on how skin color effects the length of your prison sentence and your prospects for employment:
http://www.good.is/post/light-skinned-black-women-receive-shorter-prison-sentences-than-dark-women/
http://www.uga.edu/columns/061002/news-skintone.html
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Help!
Does anybody have any information(with source) about the median/mean income of Blacks and Whites of the same educational attainment? I already know there is a huge gap in wealth btwn the races at comparable income levels, but is there equality in wages?
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@ The Cynic:
The Census probably has the best data, but I’d also check your state and local EDD Departments and other government agencies, including the Bureau of Labor Statistics. A good magazine source is American Demographics, but I bet other magazines like The Economist, and Black Enterprise have done similar studies. Heck, Wikipedia might even be a good jumping off point. Good luck
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The Cynic:
I have seen those numbers on some *.gov website, probably either the Census Bureau or the Bureau of Labor Statistics. In general, blacks have to stay in school about two years longer to make the same income as whites.
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@Abagond & grin and bear it
Thanks!!! I usually don’t have troubles researching, but I just couldn’t think of the right words to type in Google’s search bar. All of the results I got led me to dead ends. I appreciate the help.
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Hi Abagond,
I mostly lurk your blog but I must say that I like it very much. I just created a blog and am thinking of copying your writing style, if you don’t mind. If you want the link to my blog, just ask. I didn’t include it because I don’t want it to look like I’m just posting this to advertise it.
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I haven’t been commenting in a while but I keep reading Abagond’s topics as much as my time allows. I hope everybody’s doing fine.
I hope I’m forgiven if I just leave a big up for a very talented and sweet Songwriter/ singer / multi-instrumentalist from Cameroun.
Mad props to Irma!
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This is Interesting. A successful anti-poverty program that helps poor families by building networks. From the New York Times,
http://opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/07/14/out-of-poverty-family-style/
“Among the most compelling findings included in the report is that of the nearly $400 billion spend by the federal government in 2009, most funds went toward tax breaks. However, more than half of these breaks went to the wealthiest five percent of taxpayers, who averaged a net benefit of $95,000 each. On the other hand, less than 5% of the federal expenditures benefitted the Americans earning the least. The bottom 60% of taxpayers averaged just $5 each.”
The PDF of the report is in the link.
http://cfed.org/knowledge_center/publications/savings_financial_security/upside_down_the_400_billion_federal_asset-building_budget/
Abagond I have a suggestion. Why don’t you do a post about the creation of the White American middle class?
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Wow – the power of a ‘celebrity’ couple.
Following the birth of their baby daughter Harper Seven, I heard on the radio today that sales of the book ‘To kill a mockingbird’ have doubled. Apparently Victoria Beckham has sited it as her favourite book!
I watched a documentary about the writer Harper Lee where they spoke to her cousin/sister about the story behind the story and was gutted to hear that it was not written by someone who was all for justice, on the contrary she seemed to support unfairness and discrimination, at least thats what her family members conveyed anyway….
Anyone know any different please do enlighten me 🙂
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Ugh… I’ve been looking for this statistic forever! It would have been incredibly useful in all of those HDB fights were “race realist” try to claim blacks are inherently more violent than white men. Hence, the discrepancies in violent crime rates. I’ll save it here just in case I, or anyone else, needs it again
“I see a very strong association between some of these problems like gang behavior and violent crime and joblessness. For example, if you look at a recent longitudinal study conducted by my colleague at the University of Colorado — we are doing a book together — Delbert Elliot. He found, for example, that by the time white males and black males reached the late 20s, the violent crime ratio is 4 to 1 — 4 black to 1 white. Much higher violent crime rate among black males. However, when he controlled for employment, there was no significant difference in the violent crime rate between white males and black males. No significant difference.”
-William Julius Wilson
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/race/interviews/wilson2.html
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@ The Cynic
Wow, that is a GREAT stat to have! I’ve Never seen it before, THANX!
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@King
Your welcome
@Brothawolf- from the Asian fetish thread.
“Hollywood is run by mostly whites”
I don’t think that makes much of a difference when it comes to stereotypes. A lot of “black films” with black directors & writers are filled with white, Asian, and even black racial stereotypes. Thing is, I wouldn’t necessarily call all of those stereotypes negative. I think Tyler Perry’s movies are a good a example of black films that are filled with stereotypes that aren’t exactly “bad”. Though, some may disagree with me on that…
Here are some names of black directors, producers, and/or writers and their films
Reginald Harold- House Party 1-3, Boomerang, Bebe’s Kids
DJ Pooh-Boyz n the Hood, Friday, Next Friday, 3 Strikes, The Wash
Rick Famuyiwa-Brown Sugar, The Wood, Our Family Wedding, Talk To Me
George Tillman Jr.-Barber Shop 1 & 2, Roll Bounce, Soul Food, Beauty Shop
Malcom D. Lee-The Best Man, Undercover Brother, Roll Bounce
Ernest R. Dickerson-Juice, The Wire
Doug McHenry-New Jack City, The Brothers, Two Can Play That Game
John Singleton-Poetic Justice, Shaft, Baby Boy
I found most of these directors on this site…
http://www.ranker.com/list/all-black-movies-or-list-of-black-movies/all-genre-movies-lists?page=1&format=GRID&sortby=&sortdir=
… and I used IMBD to verify their race. From there I found information about some of their other work, whether it was writing, producing, or directing. I only used movies that I am familiar with, so that I could make sure they included a predominantly black cast.
Looking at this list of movies, I see plenty of stereotypes. Whether they are negative or positive, most of them honestly don’t offend me, although I do wish Hollywood’s scope of black movies weren’t so limited…
Oh and when it comes to Asians, I believe they have it the absolute worst when it comes to media & stereotypes.
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Hey, guys. I know this is abagond’s blog, but I hope it’s not too much to ask to say a prayer on my mom’s behalf. Last night, my sister and I brought her to the hospital because she whimpered about the pain surrounding her head. We found out she has a tumor in her brain. Please pray for my mom’s health and healing. She needs all the help she can get. Btw, her name is Rosario. Yes, as in Rosario Dawson. Thank you all.
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So sorry to hear of that, Leigh. Your Mom is definitely in my prayers. I have an Uncle who had a similar issue, some years ago, and he’s doing fine now, so a great outcome is definitely possible for your Mom.
Hang in there.
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@Leigh, here’s hoping for a speedy recovery for your Mom!
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To Leigh’s mom Rosario,
Sending out healing thoughts in hopes of a total & speedy recovery.
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@bulanikgirl: The terrorist act in Oslo and Utöyj were terrible. The guy who did them claimed to be a right wing revolutionary who wanted to change the world. He had published somekind of a manifesto in the net. He mentions one finnish guy called Jussi Halla-aho in his text.
Halla-aho is an young academic researcher who has been writing racist and right wing blogs etc. for years and has become somekind of ideological dynamo for his ilk in Finland. He got elected last election from the lists of True finns, the right wing populist party here. Typical of his kind, Halla-aho poses as a real nationalist champion but has not even done his mandatory military service.
This norwegian guy, in my mind, is a just a cowardly massmurderer. Despite his political claims, he planned his actions so that he could and did kill as many kids as possible. He claims that he was targeting Labour party. Not so. The bomb went off half past four during summer holiday season on friday, when most of the goverment workers had already gone off to their summer houses etc. He did not plant his bombcar right next to the building where the prime minister works. He did not attack Labour party offices, party conventions, election rallies etc. That shows thet his guy wanted to kill kids, not the adults or politicians or anything like that.
He deliberately chose to attack childrens summer camp, organized by the party. Why? Soft target, lost of kids. The bomb was a decoy, so that he got two hours to shoot the kids on the island. Which he did. His aim and target were the kids. He is a child murderer, a cowardly pervert who wanted to kill as many children as he cloud. All this talk about political motives etc. are excuses made to cover the simple fact: this man wanted to kill kids.
As you know we had two school shootings just couple years ago, so we’ve had these too. The Jokela shcool shooter had a nihilistic world view of the extreme “green” political kind after her own mother. But in reality, he just wanted to kill those kids who had not been treating him right. Similar kind of guy.
Nordic countries are not the safe haven everybody thinks. Finland has been the leader in violent crimes for many years in EU proportionaly. We have very violent cultural in which physical violence is not abnormal. Fights among drunks are normal etc. You might also know that Finland is one of the leading countries in suicides.
When I was growing up, if I got into a fight and went home crying, my parents asked was the guy bigger. If not, back out side. When I went to school, I had to fight at the school yard with in a week. Same thing happened in second grade and third grade, I had to fight in the first grade of the junior high school. It was normal for me and my class mates. It just happened. You had to find your place in the class and this was one way.
What the foreigners do not understand is this: we are very mellow, almost meek. Lutheran ethos still effects the Nordic societies. We are surprisingly honest, pay our taxes etc. But, under the well structured surface is a very dark under current of violence. In Norway they have their history of nazism. In Sweden too plus it was swedish “scientists” who came up with the idea of race biology back in the days.
History if Finland is full of periods of violence. Our civil war 1918 was such that the mexican consul made an official protest against the atrocities. Mind you, there had been a civil war in Mexico for 7 years by then and that was pretty brutal. Still, what the finns were doing to each other was too much for a mexican diplomat.
We are polite, usually, but also have “culture of coldness” that foreigners find surprising. In all Nordic countries state and goverment officials are able to handle humanbeings in very detached and cold manner. They handle only issues and cases, not humans.
My generation did not lost any sleep over the school shootings. Some were schoked, most not. Most of my friends talked about them, but did not show any emotions other than contempt against the killers. Now my friends are little upset, not because the terrorist attack itself, but the killing of children. That is against the code of violence. My male friends would like to “rip these guys balls off”, “torture him a bit”, “make him suffer few years” etc. without realising that that is also violent solution, just like killing 95 kids.
According one study 3 out of 10 facial surgery damages on human face in the city of Hamburg is due to the accidents. In Helsinki Finland, 3 out 10 face damages are due to violence.
So while I abhorr and dispise the norwegian child murderer, I know that he is not an alien. There are many who are thinking the same way and some even cheer on this guy. We are not the paradise so many think. It is just usually under the surface.
The thing is: not even after this, nobody in Norway is demanding a death penalty for this guy. The maxim prison term is 21 years and even the chief of the police said in the press confrence: “This COULD mean even the maximum penalty of 21 years”. In finnish law there is a life in prison punishment and you get out only trough a clemency.
But, most of us, including me, are thinking: this guy won’t survive 21 years in prison. There are professional criminal, many pf whom are fathers, and they do not like child murderers. So once again, we are thinkin a violent solution for this problem.
This is all I can say at now. Perhaps something later. And yes, when I heard about those kids, I was so mad I could have killed this creep myself. And I consider myself a hippie. Says something about our peaceful countries.
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@bulanikgirl: The face damage statistics should have been; 7 out 10 in Hamburg due to accidents and in Helsinki 7 out 10 due to the violence.
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Correction. In Finland life sentence means 10-12 years in jail. Very few convicts actually serve a life sentence…
There a double-homocidial murderes on vacation.
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Most Finns are apalled by the murders. A cowardly act for sure. My sympathy goes to the victims and their parents. Murder is evil, but murdering children is inhuman.
He should be convicted by medieval standards.
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I think there will be a demand to outlaw guns and more pressure to control and fight against extreme political movements.
Of course there are extreme elements who are encourged by violent attacks, but I still believe the local populae is strongly against such behviour.
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I still think most scandic people are very tolerant and open-minded, trusting the democratic system.
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“Hey, guys. I know this is abagond’s blog, but I hope it’s not too much to ask to say a prayer on my mom’s behalf. Last night, my sister and I brought her to the hospital because she whimpered about the pain surrounding her head. We found out she has a tumor in her brain. Please pray for my mom’s health and healing. She needs all the help she can get. Btw, her name is Rosario. Yes, as in Rosario Dawson. Thank you all.”
-Leigh
Your mom’s in my thoughts.
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I will pray for her.
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@King, Bulanikgirl, Herneith, Parfum Bleu, brothawolf, abagond and anyone else I may have missed:
I just wanted to express my deepest thanks to all of you for your prayers and support for my family and especially for my mom during this time. Your thoughtful words are encouraging and uplifting. It means a lot to me. And I appreciate it. Again, thank you guys. 😀
~ Leigh
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And some 100 teenagers were shot in Norway. But I suppose it’s no big deal to most Americans.
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Their families are in our thoughts prayers as well.
It’s all over the news here, Hannu. There is plenty of talk and sympathy about it on the web. It’s a horrible incident.
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Sorry. My condolencies to Leigh’s family.
I mistook this thread to represent overall American sympathies. Since the unfortunate event is a huge blow not only to Norway, but to all its neighboring nordic countries.
We moarn with you. We will stand by you, and will fight against the forces that created this atrocity.
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Anders Behring Breivik seems like a real piece of work. There was no way to prevent it from happening the first time. Perhaps this horror may, in some way, make it more difficult to happen a second time. At least then some good would come out of so much suffering.
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OMG I was just reading some of Abagond’s older posts, and just needed to say, THANK GOODNESS THADDEUS IS GONE!!! Some people just don’t know how to disagree in a polite and respectuful manner. If he’s anything like that in real life, then I feel truly sorry for his wife and anyone who has to put up with his obnoxious personality. It’s amazing anyone even married him in the first place.
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@hannu: Life sentence in Finland is actually a life sentence in the law but in 60’s it became rule of thumb that presidents granted amnesty after some 12+ years, depending on the case. During president Halonens tenure the time has been 16yrs on average. But without presidential, now highest court, clemency, you will do a life sentence in Finland.
There are prisoners who have done 20-30 yrs without even having convicted of any murder. It is called stacking: 5 yrs + 3 yrs +4 yrs + 3 yrs etc. Also, in the past, escaping or trying to escape added sentences. Also, we have to remember that Amnesty International has in many occation condemned finnish prisons as un-humane. So, even though we have very liberal and tolerant punishment system, doing time is not a walk on the park.
@bulanikgirl: I think Nordic countries are very open and tolerant despite our violent cultural strains. I think the big difference to say Britain or USA is that we lack the culture of fear. There are no areas in the cities where you can not go. Many women go around at night freely despite some news of rapists etc. In the countryside the biggest fear is to step on a snake or run into a bear, not the guys from the Deliverance.
Actually, statistically the most dangerous places of the cities are their very centers. In Helsinki, absolute majority of street crimes happen smack in the middle of the city. But, it is the place were you have the most people at any given time of the day or night. So even though people know this, it does not prevent them from going to movies, night clubs, restaurants etc.
Compared to USA, we do not have the culture of fear. If you ask are there bad neighbourhoods, people would name few concrete suburbs, not the city center which is the most dangerous. But the people who live in those suburbs full of concrete buildings and bad reputation, usually do not complain nor feel that their area is dangerous. I have lived most of my life in suburbs which have always had lowsy reputation. I have and still do walk around here at any time of day or night. No problem.
Also, in Nordic countries there is much less police corruption than in many countries. People trust the police and usually the police treat people well. Not always but usually. That might explain why this norwegian bastard was able to kill so many kids. He was wearing a police uniform.
Europol has already taken the Nordic extreme rightwing under scrutiny and there are some hate crime things in our law at present. If I understand correctly, if you are condemned of hate crime, you get stiffer penalties. But many people think that this is too much, that these right wing guys have gone too far.
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@bulanikgirl: One problem which I know that the authorities should really adress is the feeling of unfairness that many natives have when relying on social services. There are lot of examples which contribute to this and I really do hope that it should be corrected.
My sisters ex-husband applied for a city owned rent apartment after the divorce but was told that he is number 4000 something on the waiting list. Yet, a refugee family recently arrived in the country was on the next booth assisted by a state provided lawyer, social worker and translator, and they got apartment righ there and then. This is not their fault, but the systems, but my sisters ex was a bit bitter after this experience. There has been others too.
This is because the social services have been given an strict public order to give to the refugees all that belongs to them according the law. But for some reason, and I really do not know why, native finns get the whole bureucratic treatment if and when they try to apply any social benefits that belong them too according the law.
I have no idea why this is tolerated because this provides ammunition for the xenophobics and racists. This is the main arguement these racists and anti-immigration groups have. I think the best way to fight against the right wing racist movements would be making absolutely sure that all and everyone gets the same treatment while dealing with officials. And this is not just Finland, this should be done in all European countries. Because the song remains the same: “I have worked all my life and payed my taxes and then these guys come here and get everything for free and I don’t get anything”.
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@ Bulanikgirl
Well… it’s a good start.
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sam:
Your government appears to be so anxious to prove its “tolerance” that it’s willing to throw its own culture and citizens under the bus.
Odd to think that yours is the nation of Simo Häyhä.
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@bulanikgirl: One thing we have to remember is this: this guy wanted to kill kids. That was his aim. All the crusader bull S and such is his own excuse for killing kids. He claims that he wanted to kill a previous primeminister on the island. Why shoot the kids once he found out that the ex prime minister was no more there? Because he wanted to kill the kids.
He claims he attacked the society. Why he surrendered at once when the first cop showed up? Because he went in to kill the kids.
He says he wanted to attack the labour party. Why he did not attack party congress or offices? Because he intented to kill the kids.
He says he is anti immigration. Why he idid not go shooting and bombing one of Oslos immigrant suburbs? Because he wanted to kill the kids.
He tells that he hates himself because he is so feminine and blames his mother for it. He had no girls at school but “all the girls admired him” but “he had no time for any relationships”. Who teen boy does not have time for girls who admire him?
He dresses up in his own fantasy uniforms and takes pictures of himself. He lives with his momma at the age of 32. He momma adorns him.
This guy was and is a pervert who wanted to kill as many kids as possible, He found his excuse in the right wing mumbo jumbo and perhaps was used by some of the real right wingers, but the clear absolute fact remains: he did everything to kill as many kids as he could. Once the first cop showed up, he gave up. He had no intention to fight the society, to attack the party, he just wanted to kill kids and found his excuse to do so.
I have read his so called manifesto and it is what it is: lunatic ramblings of a self doubting nut, a incoherent mumbling of a mommas boy who is affraid that he is too soft and possibly gay. He was seeking acceptance from the immigrant youth but was beaten by couple of them. That is the real reason of his racism and anti immigration stance.
So lets look what we have here: a lonely mommas boy who never had normal teenage love, who got beaten by couple of kids who happened to be immigrants, who doubts his own sexuality and who has not been successful in his life. And he wanted to kill those kids who were having fun (and perhaps sex) on a summer camp. It was his personal revenge for all the kids who got what he never did.
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@randy…
Where are you from? I know a bit about Simo Häyhä, of his merits in Winter war ( he was wounded and did not partake in Continuation war).
Simo Häyhä did what he had to do against the biggest army of the time. He had no political agenda, he did not fight against immigrants looking for a better life. He fought against a juggernaut.
His fight and exceptional fighting ability has nothing to do with the current welfare system in Finland. It was designed to aid the impovereshed, not an aggressive conqueror. Are you living in some kind of white supremacist fantasy world? As a Finn, I’m offended to hear such a racist interpretation.
@Sam
Yes, you’re right, the length of convictions vary, but 16 yrs is not exactly a life sentence is it?
Sorry about your relative, but I understand that if a family moves to Finland, they are given extra aid because the lack a social network here. You might argue, that so do many Finns, but is that the immigrants fault? And how would our society benefit from not helping them?
There are problems for sure, but hate and envy will never resolve them.
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The problem with Breivik…
Many professionals have labeled him as a psychopath, which, in itself, is not classified as insanity. So, he will probably be tried and convicted as a totally sane person.
Unfortunately, especially for us nordic people who think of us as the most open-minded, democratic and liberal, cannot separate his politics and actions from the current pro-nationalistic and anti-immigrant and anti-islam tendency of modern day Europe.
There are people here, who want to close their eyes and claim it to be an isolated event by an insane individual, not admitting that he channeled xenophobic tendencies harboured by many, I might add, UNEDUCATED people.
He is a warning sign we should take seriously. I personally will always fight people like him, whether it be online or verbally, in the worst case scenario, physically.
I dispice him and his ilk.
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Bulanikgirl and Hannu,
Sam mentions that foreigners appear to receive benefits ahead of citizens. If true, this would be quite unjust.
From what I’ve read, and I’m certainly no authority on the matter, Somalis are among the largest non-Finn ethnic groups in the country. They appear to have a higher crime rate than native Finns, particularly sexual assault. I’ve read about about many choosing not to assimilate into the culture or learn the language. Female circumcision, a horrific practice, is still practiced by Somalis in Finland.
While I’m generally favorable to immigration, I cannot understand why any nation would invite people into their country who despise their customs and liberal freedoms.
The comment about Simo Häyhä was rather tongue-and-cheek, but it seems as though if the Russians simply waited 80 years to cross the border, the Finns would be building them houses and giving them welfare.
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@Randy:
You are a Finn. Nobody else would have the un-information and your passion to spread your agenda.
People like you never have any stastics to support your views. None. You just assume, based on your personal prejudice. From the beginning you fear and hate foreigners.
I’ve met and seen your kind. The first minute you start providing evidence for your racist views, I’ll start listening.
Got any?
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Hannu and Bulanikgirl,
Sorry, but nobody is talking race here, rather the expectations a nation sets for those whom it opens its borders.
From the Wikipedia article “Crime in Finland”:
I cannot read Finnish so as to determine if the supporting document is real or not. Perhaps you might check it yourself.
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@ Randy
Are you sure that the “foreigners” in question are mostly of the brown-skinned variety — not the Russians, Eastern Europeans, Chinese, Americans, etc.?
Not saying it’s not, I’m just trying to verify your evidence.
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Hee-hee!
So, you are referring to a document you cannot comprehend or verify?
Where does that leave you? Do you even comprehend what you just read?
Lol!
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These comments reminded me of this guy. Geert Wilders(hope that’s right, spelling off memory) is an interesting character.
Hope the second video comes up….
This one is about immigration, assimilation, and segregation in the Netherlands. It focuses on “black” schools in the country.
Idk why, but I’m quite interested in European immigration. Comparing and contrasting to my own society is pretty fun.
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The recent comments are almost idendical to this person, as well:
http://thinkprogress.org/media/2011/07/26/279171/pat-buchanan-breivik-may-be-right/
Yes, Patrick Buchanan is a staunch admirer of Adolf Hitler.
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King:
Valid point.
However, I do believe that one can make an objective and fact-based argument that recent Muslim immigrants to northern Europe commit a disproportionate amount of crime, including sexual assaults. Further, the lack of political willpower in striving to integrate new arrivals has allowed related social pathologies to develop.
If folks have a stomach for such a debate, I would first encourage them to independently research this topic then we can meet up and have a nice discussion.
Personally, I have nothing against immigrants, brown people, black people, or Muslims, as has been alleged.
I see these issues in Scandinavian countries as symptoms of a flawed (so-called) “neo-liberalist” viewpoint, which continues to advocate the oft-failed policy of “multiculturalism” despite mounting evidence against it.
Even France and Germany, bastions of tolerance in Europe, have been forced to admit that multiculturalism (of the type practiced there) simply doesn’t work.
Bulanikgirl,
You seem like a thoughtful and intelligent person and I’m sure your family is wonderful. My challenge still stands: please point out which countries/regions in Asia afford the common woman the same type of legal and cultural gender equality (including opportunities for female children, prevalence of infidelity, accountability for domestic violence, and male participation in the domestic sphere) as can be found in the West.
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@ Bulanikgirl
Haven’t you noticed that yet? That the tactic Randy uses is the same one modern racists use? They word what they really mean in a specific manner and imply as heavily as possible (via carefully worded clues), without blatantly saying what they mean. Then when someone clarifies the obvious (because they drop so many hints) they say something along the lines of “No! I never actually said that! You did!” It’s a “clever” way of arguing against you without them having to actually do so.
And the “multiculturalism has failed” meme that new age, subtle, White Supermacists like Randy (if that hurts your feelings, “get over it”, because you’re not as clever as you think you are) use will stop gaining traction, when other countries put their foot down and stop giving immigrants the idea that they will be catered too 100%. Muslims especially.
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Franklin,
It’s often easier to dismiss an idea by calling someone a bigot rather than to refute the idea itself. In my opinion, that’s a rather weak rhetorical tactic.
To continue with the previous comment, I’d add that I think Muslim immigration to the US has been far more successful than it has been in N. Europe.
Btw, I have friends who are Muslim immigrants and my kids play with theirs.
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@ Randy
Sorry that you need an indepth discussion as to why one believes that “Water is wet”. Not that such a discussion would matter in the end, because you’ve been known to repeat the same slogans that go against contradictory evidence, time and time again, anyway.
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Bulanikgirl:
Nope, America.
Bulanikgirl:
People can disagree without being disagreeable, and I don’t see anything wrong with offering genuine and positive observations about the people you debate with.
As for the claim about anyone being “superior”, I’ve not made that assertion, rather the discussion was about my why wife didn’t want to date asian men after emigrating to the US. Some other commenters questioned the nature of this preference, which I’ve attempted to explain. Eurasian Sensation confirmed that his Malaysian-Indian partner has expressed many of the same feelings in that regard.
Bulanikgirl:
If you transpose my comment from Finland to Germany, it wold be more accurate to restate it as, “Have the Germans thrown German culture under the bus with regards to unassimilated Turkish emigrants?”
Angela Merkel, Germany’s chancellor, has stated that Germany’s efforts to create a multi-cultural society had failed and urged immigrants, many of them Turks, to integrate, learn German and adopt German culture and values.
Der Spiegel reported:
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@Bulanik
Thank’s for the vid. The girl in the first video sounded a bit demented to me. I can understand ppl worrying about assimilation, but I don’t have much tolerance for the xenophobia that often accompanies it. I think that women ought to pick up a history book and read about Europe’s religious violence(wars & witchunts) of the 16th and 17th cent.
Oh, and here is the BBC’s reply to the Muslim Demo video
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Bulanik:
I think we’re mostly in agreement about this definition of that term. Merkel herself defines “Multikulti” as, the concept of “we are now living side by side and are happy about it.”
Bulanik:
I think that’s an incomplete question. The responsibility lies with both parties.
Angela Merkel:
Bulanik:
One side of my family did not speak English when they arrived in America. However, from the beginning they worked to assimilate.
My grandfather, a rather stern man, forbade the speaking of Italian in his house. He told his children that they were Americans now, and they owed their loyalty to America even if that meant going to war against Italy. While it took years for them to become fluent in English, the desire was present from the very beginning. I heard one family member say that the first time my grandmother set foot in a classroom was to learn English in preparation for the US naturalization exam.
We’re not nearly so strict in our house, and are teaching our children multiple languages, but English has primacy.
I think Angela Merkel’s request is a fair standard to set for immigrants who petition to join another country in search of a better life.
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@Randy
Interesting how someone with immigrant roots is critizing immigrance… Anthropolgy and history are not your strong suits, are they? You justify your opinion on the success of your ancestors. How do you know who and how many of possible immigrants will succeed?
You and your kind think that simple solutions answer complex questions. I can see from your comments that you align with the many xenophobic, anti-islamic rhetorics used by nationalistic political (extremist) movements across Europe.
I know your game. Instead of race (black, brown) you use foreign culture as an excuse for your obvious racism.
Sure, there are problems with immigration, but labelling them all bad, closing borders wishing they would all go away to let us enjoy our (partially colonialism-based) prosperity is a pathetic, supremacist pipedream.
We need to find solutions together, as a human race. Might not happen, but…
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@ Bulanik
Sorry, my high school german is not good enough.
Knowing German history (also political), I find it really difficult to believe that Angela Merkel would say such negative comments about Turkish immigrants. They were extremely crushial workforce before, but like Bulanikgirl says, more of them are moving back to Turkey yo start businesse,s with a lot less racism.
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Hannu:
I’m not sure where you got all that from. I’m simply saying that immigrants should embrace the host culture and its values, which in the case of Western countries, equates to secular liberalism and equal rights for women.
Host countries should require that immigrants learn the language and accept its values, while providing the resources to enable them to do this. Perhaps you can show me what you think is too simplistic about such an arrangement.
As for how you can determine who is likely to be successful and who isn’t, I would suggest that existing programs already perform this task readily.
Before my wife was able to acquire a visa to emigrate to the US, she had to satisfy educational, occupational, and language proficiency requirements. I don’t know of any of her friends in this program who have become burdens of the state.
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By chance, did anyone get to the Intellectual History of Black Women Conference this year?
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Wow… I always knew that the top 1% payed a historically lower share of taxes, but I literally believed that America’s tax system was a lot more progressive. It turns out that when you factor in sales taxes, payroll taxes, state taxes, and others along with the federal income tax, American’s pay a pretty even share across income brackets.
Although the lowest 20%($12,500) pay a little over half of the top 1% and the second 20%($25,000) pays 66% of the top 1%’s taxes, the middle 20% to the next 4%($40,700-241,000) pay a similar amount that the top 1($1,245,000) does.
Sorry for all of the percent and dollar signs. The graph in the PDF makes it much easier to read.
Sources:
America’s Tax System Is Not as Progressive as You Think- Citizen’s For Tax Justice
Click to access taxday2011.pdf
Little Income, Little to Tax- The Economist
http://www.economist.com/blogs/democracyinamerica/2011/07/tax-fairness
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@cynic: The craziest thing in taxes is this: every time US has been absolutely the top in the world, it has had the most progressive taxation in the world. And everytime the taxation has been favorable for the rich, the country has gone down to tubes. It is the same thing all over the world.
@abagond: heres a good post subject for you: Josephine Baker. First black american woman super star, first of that kind internationally, and what she did during the war was spectacular. Think about this: she was black american in nazi occupied France, she was converted jew, and yet she was a spy for the french resistance all trough the war. Now that is something else!! A black american jew woman fighting against the nazis.
She might have been a diva, this or that, but how many of us would have done what she did during WW2? Not many I bet.
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Hey,
Does anyone watch ‘The Real Housewives’ series? I was particularly hooked on the New Jersey episodes and was disappointed when they didnt show the latest of this series in the UK in May as scheduled earlier this year.
I love watching the dynamics and the interplay between these people and watch in fascination and horror (at times) at the way in which these individuals interact. Its like watching a social experiment on how the perception of wealth, beauty and decadence makes people act a certain way.
I’m currently watching the Orange County one now….
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Update:
Well, guys, as I’ve mentioned earlier in this thread, my mom has a tumor in her brain. Further tests indicated the tumor is the result of lung cancer. There is a small mass in my mom’s lungs as well. Btw, my mom has never smoked a day in her life, but she was exposed to secondhand smoke. Food for thought.
Anyway, radiation therapy has begun and my family is very optimistic. My mom’s been active and staying positive. What a trooper! Your thoughts and prayers for my sweet mama is greatly appreciated. 🙂
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Well, it’s a lot better to have this problem in 2011 than at any time in the past, because so much progress has been made recently in cancer treatment and therapy. Proton radiation treatment is particularly promising and has a great track record dealing with tumors. Perhaps there’s a program close to you.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21134540/vp/25930361#25930361
There are a lot of new drugs that are very effective too, as well as nutritional regimens that help to stop the spread of cancer. Anyway, I’m sure that we’ll all continue to keep your mom in our thoughts and prayers. Keep positive and keep your mom positive 🙂
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Thanks for the link, King. 😀 It’s very encouraging to know there are many advancements in treating cancer. Earlier, I was very worried for my mom and now I have every reason to believe my mom is well on her way to recovery.
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Leigh204,
Prayer is the most powerful remedy. My prayers are with her.
Please check out this site, http://www.naturalnews.com. They are an excellent resource for alternative cures.
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Here’s to hoping your mom has a swift recovery indeed!
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@ Bulanik:
I”ve read your post in its entirety and all I can say is thank you for your suggestion. Actually, I’ve already looked into “complementary medicine” or “alternative medicine” where I’m from (Canada). I also believe alternative medicine has a place alongside conventional medicine. IMHO, having different different options is a good thing and it wouldn’t hurt to try them out. I just want my mom to get well and anything that helps improve her condition, I’m all for it. 🙂
@bpcheer:
@ Herneith:
Aw, you guys. From the bottom of my heart, I thank you all for the kind thoughts and prayers!
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Leigh:
That’s great news. I will keep her in my prayers.
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@Leigh204
I hope this isn’t getting to be redundant at this point, but I wanted to say that I am praying for your mother’s speedy recovery.
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Here are a couple of interesting studies on topics we’ve discussed on this blog. Physical attraction and intelligence.
Masculine faces appeal most to women in countries where disease is rife
http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/2010/mar/17/masculine-faces-women-disease?INTCMP=ILCNETTXT3487
Intelligence tests highlight importance of genetic differences
http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/2011/aug/09/genetic-differences-intelligence
*keep in mind that the variation or heritability of intelligence among individuals is NOT the same as the individual genetic inheritance of a trait.
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@ Leigh
I think this is definitely one to watch in regard to your Mom. We were discussing that this was a time of truly expanding discovery for cancer treatment. This one sounds REALLY promising
http://health.yahoo.net/news/s/ap/us_med_gene_therapy_leukemia
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@ Leigh204
I’m sorry to hear about your mother, but it’s wonderful to see you have such a positive attitude and truly believe that she will only improve. Your mother and everyone else will see that positive energy and hope in you and start to feel it too. It can make a lot of difference in removing any stress about the situation. I wish your mother a quick recovery and hope she is feeling back to normal soon. She’ll be in my thoughts. *Hugs*
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My apologies for not replying sooner. Abagond, The Cynic, King, Iris, and SW6, even though it’s only online, I am very comforted knowing my mother as well as yours truIy have so much support and well wishes from people I’ve never met. I can feel the love. I’m truly touched. Thank you all! Group hug!! 😀 😀
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@Leigh204
Best Wishes to your mother, she’ll be in my thoughts
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I am doing a survey on the way people (particularly Americans) see the Balkans. It’s for a student project, nothing serious (it won’t be published anywhere). I already have some replies to the long survey, but I need more people for the short version of it.
If you have about 10 minutes to do this survey, it would mean a lot to me. The survey is about the way people view the Balkans and its culture(s). The survey is anonymous and you can skip any questions you don’t want to answer.
I want to thank Abagond for letting me post the link here. He’s not involved in the project in any way; he’s just kind enough to let me invite people via his website. So, any questions should be directed to me.
The survey can be found here:
http://www.surveymonkey.com/s/RBY6R5R
Thank you for your help 🙂
PS- Leigh, sorry for being late here. Sorry to hear about your mother. Not sure what to say, except that I’ll be thinking of you and her. Try different treatments. Glad to hear she’s a fighter. You’ll be in my thoughts.
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Fancy some maths, anyone?
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Thandie Newton talks about self and race:
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Disgusting crime:
http://www.cnn.com/2011/CRIME/08/17/mississippi.hate.crime/index.html?hpt=hp_t2
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I experienced this first-hand, back when I aspired to enter this field. It was discouraging, to say the least:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-14584860
On a side note, another example of ‘white privilege’ is the ability to be accepted just as you are, no questions asked. People are less likely to question the veracity of statements that white people make, and are also less likely to insult their intelligence – even if said white person is of questionable mental acuity.
For example, I made a comment to a co-worker one day. They said, “I don’t know – I think you’re wrong about that.” Later that same day, a white co-worker said something quite similar to the same person, and they immediately agreed with them – no questions asked!
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Discrimination against unattractive ppl
http://www.economist.com/node/21526782
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Funny stuff…
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/opinion/2011/0815/1224302449160.html
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/06/17/if-gop-candidates-were-simpsons-characters_n_878800.html#s292095&title=Ned_FlandersRick_Santorum
…and finally – Did you know that the words “race car” spelled backwards still spell “race car?” “Dammit I’m mad!” is also spelled the same both ways.
And if you rearrange the letters in “Tea Party Republicans,” and add just a few more letters, it spells: “Shut the fuck up you free-loading, progress-blocking, benefit-grabbing, resource-sucking, violent hypocrites, and deal with the fact that you nearly wrecked the country under Bush and that our president is black, so get over it.”
Happy Friday, everyone! 😎
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http://www.cnn.com/2011/OPINION/08/27/toure.white.michael.vick/index.html?hpt=hp_bn9
So, according to the following comments, “anti-racist” now means “anti-white” to the HBDers and supremacist crowd! 😆
Damn – talk about a paranoid bunch of psychos! Then again, there’s never really been any doubt about that…
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A blogger wrote about the brief Cartoon Network show Tower Prep. Whenever you have a chance, you should check it out as it examines the roles of race in that show.
You have to scroll up to read it from the beginning.
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An interesting article on the Libyan uprising:
http://africansuntimes.com/cms/index.php?id=644
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I love this – it was sent to me by a friend. Too bad the people who really need to absorb and comprehend this have rendered themselves incapable of doing so…
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Little diversion here all but interested in all the user names here and wondered where yours came from. Is it a nickname, your real name or does it say something about ‘you’ as a person?
Do you feel you can get a sense of identity of others on this forum from their user names? 😕
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I was watching Miss Universe 2011 just now and one of my favorites won. Miss Angola, Leila Lopes, exuded beauty and brains, and overall, I liked her because she seemed so genuine. Congrats to Leila Lopes on her Miss Universe win!
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Following on from the thread ‘A man was lynched yesterday’ where this case was also discussed on Question Time, what are your thoughts on Capital Punishment? Is it a deterrent or not?
My thoughts are there are too many flaws in the ‘justice’ system to bring this back, but I am not satisfied with the way some of the most heinous crimes are dealt with either. What’s the answer then? I wish I knew, it just seems to be that too many innocent people are being held to account and punished for things whilst the guilty roam free causing untold damage, damage that even when they are caught and tried for it cannot be rectified. This doesnt apply to just your local common criminal here either….
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@ Bulanik – you’re welcome. I’m glad you liked it! 😀
@ leigh204 – I was happy, too! I don’t follow beauty pageants, but it was nice to read about Miss Angola’s win!
@ Demerera – I don’t believe that capital punishment is much of a deterrent at all. The ‘justice’ system is horribly flawed, and there are no easy answers on how to go about fixing it…it’s a vicious circle.
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Eugenics was on my mind recently, due to an odd story regarding some sperm bank that was no longer accepting ‘donations’ from red-headed males. I started thinking about all of the ads I’ve seen in ‘alternative’ publications, exhorting “healthy women from 18 – 27 years of age” to become an egg donor. The interesting thing about those ads is that if you call and ask for information about it, they always seemed to want eggs from females of the ‘caucasian persuasion’. Too me, that screams ‘racist eugenics’; seems to be different from the standard due to the fact that nobody is undergoing forced sterilization, but only accepting eggs from women of a particular skin color – well, that can only be due to one factor, no? Seems to me that people who want children would want to make certain that the health of the donor is the most important thing!
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…and finally, here’s a great article about US politics from LZ Granderson on CNN – note some of the comments at the end; no surprises there:
http://www.cnn.com/2011/09/27/opinion/granderson-broken-government-voters/index.html?hpt=hp_bn9
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R.I.P., Sylvia Robinson:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-15123043
“Rapper’s Delight” – SugarHill Gang:
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Abagond,
Is that a picture of you in the background with the glasses?
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That is Troy Davis:
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Why am I not surprised?
This reminds me of a sports story that I saw just last week – a man threw a banana at a black hockey player, then had the temerity to claim that he had no idea it would be misconstrued as racist:
http://www.thegrio.com/sports/hockey-fan-throws-banana-at-black-nhl-player.php
Shit, the only reason the guy didn’t throw a watermelon is because it wouldn’t have been as easy to conceal! 👿
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Here’s a political article which may be of interest, as well:
http://www.cnn.com/2011/10/03/opinion/gillespie-blacks-brainwashed/index.html?hpt=hp_t2
I have been registered as an independent voter from the day I turned 18, and I have alway held fairly moderate views. To me, Demo-cans and Republi-crats are interchangeable – two sides of the same, bipartisan coin. Politics, much like the justice system, needs a major overhaul – but, where to begin? So much is wrong…
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@demerera: death penalty does not work any where . What it does is that the criminals get more dangerous and desperate. The most brutal gangsters are born in the places with death penalty, China and Russia. Russians do not have it any more but they had it and the result was the ruthless vorys and mafiya which had no scrubles to kill politicians, police, civilians, guilty or innocent if they did feel like or wanted. The chinese criminals have the same mentality. If you are a drug dealer you will get a death penalty so why not kill people? If I am not totally wrong, they still murder people in Texas too.
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‘Mixed Brittania’ and ‘How the world got mixed up’ – both interesting must see television. Produced by the BBC
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Anyone here from Detroit? If so, how far is the amtrak station from the Grayhound Depot?(yes, I am a cheapskate so shoot me!). Is it within walking distance, or, if you have to take a cab, how far is it? Thanks. in advance
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HI Hernie
Google Earth, MapQuest, Yahoo maps, Google Maps, Microsoft’s Streets and Trips, Garmin, Magellan, Tom-Tom GPS devices … lol
I like cheapskates! Mo’ money for men’s toys and wardrobe!
:-p
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I like cheapskates! Mo’ money for men’s toys and wardrobe!
I am only cheap when it comes to travelling I’ll have you know! Thanks, but having no sense of those maps, they are literally useless to me as I don’t know where I’m going to start. Oh, and I was told it is the other way around when it comes to spending money on men(Granny et al told me this, in fact drilled it into me from toddlerhood). It is the men who spend on you! A huge paycheque works as a powerful aphrodesiac, to he\\ with looks! Besides most of the men I date just want to go for walks and hold hands! Their idea of spending money is the drive through at some fast food joint(in their case it is a walk through) and that is only when there is a speacial on! Oh the travails of life! Oh, thanks, I found an alternate route!
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If you havent tuned in yet then I recommend you watch Mixed Brittania – a 3 part series.
Interesting and insightful and shows what people had to endure and how far we have come.
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OMG – How weird
On the subject of the above programme I just saw one of my old school teachers on the said programme. I remember her bringing her daughters in to school and the gossip that she had adopted them. Don’t think I realised the controversy and everything she/they must have been up against – in my youth like thinking I felt sorry for them cos their hair wasnt properly looked after!
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Abagond- do you think you will ever reveal your true identity? Maybe write a book, do a book tour. You would make a killin! 🙂
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Makes me wanna shake my booty!
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xljrkl_azealia-banks-212_music?start=17#from=embed
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Hi Bulanik,
you can catch the programme on i-player
http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b015qms8/Mixed_Britannia_19101939/
http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b015ydfs/Mixed_Britannia_19401965/
http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b016bjdb/Mixed_Britannia_19652011/
Its more about the evolution and influence of non-europeans in Britain and looks at how mixed race people have become such an integral and rapidly growing racial group. It starts from the last century looking at colonial influences, then on to the World Wars which had an effect on migration and the 60’s where mixing was becoming much more popular and widespread yet still against a backdrop of disapproval.
Its presented by George Alagiah – himself married to a White Woman and he interviews many IR couples and looks at what they had to go through all the years whilst acknowledging the sacrifices they made helped to shape the UK.
Re the teacher:- I think the girl was adopted and I recall they had another daughter too (who looked exactly the same but older – they could have been blood sisters)
Would love to hear your thoughts as always Bulanik
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@Hannu
Long time man – How you doing? Loving the tune 🙂
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Hey, Demerera!
Could be better… hope you are all right. That song is great, she’s so unbearably cute and the song has beat and rufness. I love it.
Here’s a link to a 4-part documentary “The history of Afro-Finland”. It’s all in Finnish, sorry. It was really interesting.
http://teema.yle.fi/ohjelmat/juttuarkisto/afro-suomen-historia
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Thanks Hannu,
Whats up? – I ask on an open forum and I guess the reality is that you dont necessarily want the whole world to hear but that is my nature and I am genuinely interested to know that you are ok etc. Hate to hear you sounding down.
Meanwhile thanks for the link – I urge you to watch the documentaries I attached for bulanik too.
BTW, are you aware that clicking on your name takes you straight to your facebook profile? Excuse my nosiness but are you still single Hannu? Cos looking at you picture in all its glory I would be surprised if you still are 😉 I also think its nice to put a face to the name.
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Work and business sucks, other than that life is pretty much ok…
Yea, I know it takes to my fb, I use my real identity everywhere. And yes, I’m still single. It’s so difficult to find an interesting woman, especially ’cause nordic blondes just don’t do it to me anymore, too plain. I was born in the wrong country. 😦
Thanks for the compliments! 🙂
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I’ll check the links, thanks. Sounds very intersting, I’ve always been interested in racism and minorirites and different cultures in general.
Besides, in the current political climate in Europe, it is immensely important to educate yourself on these matters. More weapons to fight asshat bigots.
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@Hannu
Will business take you abroad maybe? I guess the priority at the moment will be for you to sort out your business affairs but I was thinking that if you do travel with work that will widen the opportunities for meeting ‘other’ women.
You never know, as unlikely as it might seem, this site could assist in providing an introduction as you are open to people seeing your identity.
Meanwhile I hope your work and business situation improves – the recession is getting into every crevice of professional working life isnt it!
My organisation is going through huge transformation and restructure which I knew when I initially accepted the role but I took the job nevertheless as I am quite a ‘late developer’ in terms of stepping on to the career ladder having invested in the kids and study first. I’m just trying to keep my head down and gain the experience really but its been quite a disorienting and fraught experience.
Take care Hannu – let me know if you get the chance to watch the programme
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@Bulanik
Bulanik
@Demerera, Hannu
Generally speaking, I would say that Abagond’s website is very, very, very, very US/American in outlook. Sometimes, as a European (more or less), it takes time to get my head around some of the stuff, and I find my tolerance level for some of the stubborn ideas about race in America just breaks down.
What do both of you think?
I love that this website has exposed me to new people/ideas and experiences outside my own. It is not good to be cosetted too much I think and whilst I am not experiencing racial issues on an intense a level as many that is suggested on here by others, it is a legacy that has affected me and mine and continues to pervade in that oh so subtle and implicit way that the Brits are best at.
I am fascinated too by some of the commentators and enjoy discussing with people like your good self and I enjoy reading what King and others write too. Even the bad ones i.e. Myself and another recent troll Asher who have no interest in trying to be open and understanding some of the discussions but have merely seen the subject heading/title etc and have take offence force you to think and sometimes re-think things. When these types make their comments it reminds me of something someone said either on here or somewhere like it which was ‘when WP get together its a gathering but when BP get together its a movement’
Anyway, it always takes me time to get my head around things lol but encourages me to do so and yes, it is from a strong US perspective and at times I have to watch the posts unfold before I contribute to understand thing things in context.
Right, off to shimmy shake and wiggle at Zumba now – ttfn x
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@Demerera
I work at home, don’t travel. I hang around a bit on the net. I have friends esp. in US -whom I’ve visited. It’s been a shitty 5 yrs in my life. Really hard. Personally and other. Glad that I have my son, being a single dad is a joy.
@Bulanik, Demerera
Yeah, this is understandably very american, and before starting to read this blog, I had no idea how rejected african american women were. Especially since I always fancied them 😉 and black and foreign women across the globe. So I too get sometimes my head spinning because of the attitudes of many white guys and some black men as well. “King” is a king among men, I agree.
What I really don’t want is to be judged as a white male because of the ignorance and attitudes of white american males.
Peace, love, unity and having fun!
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I don’t remember where I read this, but it goes like this:
White man is satsified by the white woman. White woman is satisfied by the black man. Black man is satisfied by the black woman. Black woman is satisfied by no one.
I do volunteer, though.
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Hey guys & gals,
I have been so busy dealing with my mom’s cancer that it’s been a while since I’ve commented. The update regarding my mom is, I’m tearing up as I type this, the doctors have informed me the radiation therapy and the various treatments haven’t been successful. The doctors say her cancer is so far advanced, she has been given two months to live. Maybe even less than that. My heart’s aching right now, but I haven’t given up hope. I do believe in miracles. Please everyone, please pray for my mama, Rosario. She surely needs your prayers more than ever.
Thank you with all my heart,
Leilani
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Leigh,
I BELIEVE in miracles, too.
My heart and prayers are with you, and your mom, Rosario.
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I will be praying for your mother.
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Leigh
I’m so sorry to hear this situation regarding you mum. I certainly will say a prayer and light a candle for you both. The thing that I hope most is that she is not in too much pain. I know when my gran aunt was suffering with cancer this part of it was the worst to bear for all concerned.
Much love Leigh
x
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@Leigh
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I’m not religious, but I wish you and your mother inner strength to go through this ordeal. I’ve lost several relatives to cancer.
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@ Leigh:
sorry to hear about your ordeal. My thoughts are with you.
@ Hannu:
Hi Hannu! Long time no see… 😎
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@ Sepultura
Hey there, fellow northener! How have you been? I see that you’ve been busy commenting here. Good job.
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@ Bulanik
I don’t feel Abagond takes much interest in us outside the US/Canada, or stuff about racial minorities in the UK or Europe, but there’s no doubt that his blog is one of the most serious and readable about race issues (and more!) in existence.
I grew up around Black Americans and I must say, it was always apparent how little knowledge they had about their Caribbean Cousins. The ONLY island that many were aware of was Jamaica and my mother, hailing from the French Caribbean and many of her other counterparts from other Leeward Islands used to get fed up with this – particularly when they used to try and educate these guys endlessley. These women all had a particular pride in their individual Islands so they used to bristle at the stereotypes associated with West Indians based on the Jamaicans – funny looking back at this time and the group of ladies, there wasnt one Jamaican among them lol.
I guess this then will build up a lack of understanding or appreciation for ‘other’ black experiences. Perhaps others on here can articulate it more clearly and expound on this a bit more – particularly from a Black American perspective.
Both of you have reminded me that this is public forum and there are some readers who will ASSUME hugely, and with incredible arrogance, rather than truly question, or read up what has been said before in context. When I write just about anything, I always have the feeling that anything I say has been said before and better, and I always want to read more subjects on this blog than I have enough time for!
I am not the most well read person on this forum – I will openly admit it. However, I would hope that people would not disregard my comments regardless. As I have said, sometimes I have to let a post build up some so that I can get the ‘context’ of things and I respond more to what I see in the posts. More than anything it is my ‘life’ experience that comes to bear here. – I do find coming on here an education in itself and I have gone away and looked up and read on about individuals/situations discussed on here.
Naturally, motives differ among commenters between the US and UK.
Asher, being one, just wanted to dump down his emasculation (as you point out, Demerera) and show off – show off his patchy knowledge of moral philosophy, etc
I suspected there was something amiss very early on and wanted to tease out more and expose him. Typical of his kind, unhappy and disgruntled and looking for someone to blame. My first indication was when he felt it pertinent to point out that his wife was disdainful of someone with the same ethnic background as her trying to find a common ground at a work social do – in mentioning it, he higlighted one thing – his insecurity. The mention of the rape of his wife too was very telling – as was the last bit, something minor which others may not have picked up on – him saying that he is short and how it impeded him in terms of meeting women in his younger life. I know lots of short guys that women are drawn to in droves so this didnt cut if for me – at all.
Another I remember was ‘Black Briton’ – who contributed information of value – but did so by looking down from a great height, and calling me ‘ignorant’, and letting all know that I was ungrateful for walking the streets of England because I did not take it upon myself to explain to our American audience the complexity and range of Black British history and experience. And she receive a figurative pat on her head for her efforts Lovely
You know what people in the UK think of Americans – that they are arrogant and that there is nowhere else in the world but the good old US of A lol. The ‘Yanks’ as the British say always have something ‘bigger and better’. Again this is insecurity coming through from those detractors. That being said, there are those who just cant and maybe are just not interested in getting to grips with the Black British experience and the complexities there-in as they are trying to deal with their own sh*t. Lets hope that as time goes on, the openess that seems apparent on here from most, becomes more widespread.
I think the way we ‘judge’ our place in a culture can work in some limiting ways. We run the risk of following like sheep because of societal pressure and not spoiling our self-mage.. Asher has ‘white’ interests to defend, Black Briton may not or may not have the experience of being a racial minority withinin a racial minority AND being – also – black and British, or, of being a racialized person in a wider European continental, context. That’s ok, but it’s good we can question and not simply assume too much.
But, generally, the American race mindset takes some adjusting to. It’s familiar but it’s sickly. It’s like looking at an able-bodied person with mentally psychotic tendencies. The American racial mindset is not the healthiest.
I am often heartened, fascinated and appalled in turn. At times, it seems that things have taken 2 steps forward, and then Abagond or in the news say, something else comes to light which takes things 3 paces back.
I am not saying that I am not familiar with it – I think we all, in differing degrees, are familiar with American culture and values (my own family are American, I am not…long story), and that’s why I think it is probably easier to live as a black person, or a POC, outside the American context. Race in America seems so rigid, penetrating and psychically damaging. And of course, I am talking about black America only when I say that…
Would be interested to hear your story one day… 🙂
Abagond’s is the most interesting place to visit, I have to say. I always learn something – not so much about black history/sociology/anthropology, etc., but actually more so about how people feel and react during discussion about these subjects that normally get brushed under the carpet in the UK.
Definately agree – The most frustrating thing for me is when detractors of the website remain steadfastly close minded throughout. They never log on here to ‘learn’ something. Their insecurities are too deeply entrenched and it is a horrible reminder that out and about you can meet people, but you never know what they REALLY think and that on this forum this is the way they can express themselves in cyber annonimity yet I could well have met and ‘liked’ that person little realising that they are – a word used one here a lot that I have come to like ‘a troll’
Personally, Demerera, I don’t find the British all that subtle. I’m afraid I know the British way too well….However, they do have a different racial ‘style’ to their Euro-Americans cousins, and I have seen British society change greatly decade after decade. All the so called subtlety is transparent posturing.
Ok, I concede you are right here. An anglo indian guy I met once who was married to a WW was chatting to me once and asked me if I thought racism had gone with the advent of policital correctness. I honesly answered no. He agreed and told me he had tried to tell his wife this and that they only thing he could honestly say is that people are more aware of the right thing and wrong thing to say in FRONT of certain people.
Demerera, I am certainly looking forward to the documentary and have a think before commenting in turn.
Great – look forward to hearing your thoughts on that too.
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@Bulanik
Do you think a number of the male trolls could be short-ar*ses?
I think some guys are a ‘little’ ‘stunted’ in terms of their outlook on lives and could be the male trolls that lurk on here in the shadows yes lol – thats basically the ‘long’ and ‘short’ of it -tee hee hee- 🙂
Weird isnt it though that whether real or perceived, we all have something at some time that we feel detracts from our appearance. I used to have people make comments about my eyes in a derisive way yet as I got older it was the reverse but it took me a long time to feel at ease about this.
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@Bulanik
Perhaps Americans do appreciate updates from blacks in Europe, but it is not a p*ssing contest on whose black British narrative is the most definitive and exhaustive.
Agreed 🙂 Like the use of analogy here Bulanik lol
Yes, there are parallels between the 2 nations as far as race goes, but it’s not the same as the UK.
Again very true. The overwhelming fact is that there are too many parallels IMO for us not to appreciate the experiences of the other.
On the other hand, there is the impression in the US, it seems, that the UK and Europe in general, is somehow ‘advanced’ in racial terms, because there are visible numbers of mixed relationships and relatively high numbers of racially mixed people now? Frankly, although it’s hardly a ‘bad’ thing in itself, I don’t think that high numbers of mixed relationships is the best or only indicator/ the-same-thing-as being ‘socially advanced’. I think something in the UK. like stamping out child poverty, or adequate shelters for women (AND men) who suffer domestic violence, or increasing fathers’ rights in child custody, for instance, are also strong indicators of how advanced a society is. What are your thoughts?
I think history and colonialism has much to do with it too. The British are proud of the fact that they were the ones who ‘ended’ slavery yet they were also the ones who implemented it too and got rich in turn!!! I think this makes the Euro Whites feel superior to their American cousins. When you look at the programme Mixed Brittania you will see also that during the WW’s, the British attitude was, and for want of a better expression, less extreme than the Americans though that is not to say that there was no prejudice – on the contrary ignorance was still extremely rife amongst some senior quarters. We see footage of one prominent British man talking about the fact that there is no need to adopt the same radical position as the Americans in terms of the black G.I’s and them mixing with ‘locals’. Obviously the fall out from that was the widespread ‘problem’ of the Brown Babies. Can’t help thinking that White Americans were saying ‘I told you so’ following this. In fact, the Brown Baby Problem was featured in LIFE magazine and the feedback was much revulsion and disgust from the White Americans of the time.
On the other hand, there is the impression in the US, it seems, that the UK and Europe in general, is somehow ‘advanced’ in racial terms,
Also, another contributer here is something that is so worldwide and universal – music. I guess that the white british artist of the 50’s and 60’s unashamedly embraced black music, particularly black american R&B and often cited this as their influence and this was injected in their music and that has continued on and on. In contrast – and forgive me if I am wrong here, it seems that white americans would often pilfer the music from the black artists and ‘repackage’ it with a ‘white’ label. Do you agree Bulanik?
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@Bulanik, Matari, Abagond, Demerera, Hannu Lipponen, and sepultura13:
I’d like to give thanks to each and every one of you who sent positive vibes, well wishes, and prayers to me and especially to my mom. Your ongoing support, comfort and compassion means so much. If I could, I’d hug all of you! *group hug*
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@ Leigh
🙂
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Why is Bambi in Abagond’s banner? To draw attention to Programming Note #17?
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@ Katlein
Bambi means I am taking a break from writing posts about racist killing. Bambi represents innocence, but he also represents Disneyfication (sanitized reality): Not only did Disney utterly water down the book in the now-famous Disney fashion, but the film played on at the very time when Hitler was sending the Jews of the Warsaw Ghetto to Treblinka.
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@abagond Thanks! Gotcha!
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Hello Abagond,
I received a link to the Oreo Experience that was broken. I am very interested in knowing the inner thoughts of an African American growing up in a predominantly white culture (although all of us, to some extent, have experienced this just through what we were exposed to through mass media… i.e. the television, etc.). But her experience must be vastly different from mine, as I was surrounded by people who closely resembled me growing up. After that long interlude (lol), I just wanted a link that worked 🙂
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@ SuccessfuliAm
http://theoreoexperience.com/
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@ Abagond,
Thank you for the link. Not sure what was wrong with the original, could be that AOL/Internet Explorer was just tripping. I will read tomorrow, as I have had a long day and I want to go to sleep now 🙂
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Wow!
I’m watching Toddlers and Tiara’s which looks at children in paegents. To me, this is the epitome of mothers living out their dreams in their kids….what do you guys think?
I do understand on some level little girls wanting to play ‘dress up’ and wear make up etc, but its the parents that disturb me…..
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@ Leigh:
*HUGS* right back at ya… 😎
@ Demerera:
That ‘Toddlers & Tiaras’ show disturbs me on many levels, but I do agree that the parents seem to be the topper when it comes to my revulsion. That show is like a train-wreck to me…I’m horrified, yet can’t look away.
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@sepultura13
I agree wholeheartedly, yet feel compelled to watch it. Have you noticed that the mums often look worse for wear – I think if THEY had to undergo all that the girls are going through on a regular basis, they might think twice about doing this 😉
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RIP Smokin Joe Frazier
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RIP Dwight Arrington Myers aka Heavy D
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North Carolina practiced Eugenics (forced sterilization) IN SECRET up until 1974. It was done “legally” … the “program” began with poor white women but somehow shifted from them to black females, some as young as nine.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21134540/vp/45201021#45201021
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@Abagond (or anyone else that can provide some incite)
I’m making a website for a comp app class. I have to use one image on at least every page. My instructor mentioned copyright issues that may arise from copy & pasting Google images. What process do you go through in finding pictures for your site. Do you check for copyrights? Have you ever gotten into any legal trouble over the pics you use for your site?
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@ Leigh204
It’s been a while since I’ve been on this site myself, but for other reasons.
I am very sorry to hear the bad news. You and your mother will be in my thoughts and I wish for a last-minute miracle for the both of you and your family.
All the best. *Hugs*
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@ The Cynic:
I answered you by email.
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@Abagond
Yea, i got it. Thanks! It was extremely helpful
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Song from my youth…
Aptly encompasses many of the things discussed on the various posts here methinks…
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Hey Bulanik,
Good to hear from you as always 🙂
LOL – Think matey is losing track of who he is talking to, hence my comment about one of his exes! Or, and perhaps more accurately, he gets so pissed off at my comments that in his rage he does these ‘typos’ LMAO
So pleased you managed to look at the documentaries – in response to your questions…
Why has it taken so long to look at this subject
I think the documentary itself is unwittingly revealing as to why this is. I personally think its because no-one wanted to acknowledge initially that IR relationships and children borne from this would be much more than a rarity. I think people hoped that by scaremongering in the way they initially tried to do, would be sufficient enough to deter people from ‘mixing’ in this way and creating a new genration of children – brown babies. Now, its so widespread and common, that it cannot be ignored. And so it should be acknowledged and indeed celebrated in the cases where adversity prevailed yet nevertheless success dominated.
I am also intrigued about the parenting skills required that are helpful to raising a mixed raise child with balanced racial identity and perspective.
What are your thoughts?
As a parent, I have a certain amount of experience in this instance 🙂 however, I would say that it is a constant learning curve. The thing to do, is to ensure that your children are open to ALL cultures and experiences therein. Explain to them how they may be perceived in society but teach them about their heritage and family background and who they REALLY are. To do anything else IMO is to stifle them. We only grow rich in experience by understanding, respecting and appreciating diversity.
In terms of the other posts, I have dipped in and out and even commented on a couple. The thing that struck me about what one of the posters said was that historically and traditionally, children of mixed race, were identified with the cultural background of the father, regardless of how they looked etc – what are your thoughts on that?
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Bulanik said:
Just out of curiosity, why would you want to see this? Any subject that can be held up to be praised can equally be held up to be cursed.
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Bulanik:
Yes and yes. Both are “event outcomes” which one might commonly be in favor of or against. Race and ethnicity are “inherent properties” of a person. It seems odd to express a for or against opinion about properties of a person.
No.
No.
No. My children are of mixed race though, and that drives my interest in the subject.
I’ve noticed a recent trend in the media of explicitly and implicitly expressing praise for mixed-race relationships and their offspring. This invariably makes me wince. Unpack these messages and you’re left with:
– There’s something inherently valuable about the interracial aspect of IR relationships.
– Therefore there’s less relative value in non-mixed relationships.
– People should take pride in being mixed, but generally not if they’re non-mixed (and absolutely NEVER if they’re white).
I believe these messages trivialize a person’s identity and relationships. My kids aren’t Holstein-Friesian cattle to be praised for their smooth, shiny coats. Further, I reject the implicit suggestion in these messages that there’s anything deficient in either my wife’s or my own mono-racial heritage which is somehow ameliorated through their combination.
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@Randy
I believe these messages trivialize a person’s identity and relationships. My kids aren’t Holstein-Friesian cattle to be praised for their smooth, shiny coats. Further, I reject the implicit suggestion in these messages that there’s anything deficient in either my wife’s or my own mono-racial heritage which is somehow ameliorated through their combination.
I understand where you are coming from here, I truly do. I dont think that Bulanik is suggesting that mono racial heritage should be celebrated any less than mixed racial heritage however, following the programme that she and I both watched, I think it did make me come away wanting to champion everyone involved in IR relationships that battled through the tough times and let love rule, and the product of that – mixed race children and those that may not have directly been ‘involved’ but were respectful and decent enough to allow those who lead with their hearts to be happy.
The programme shows the background of this and the adversity therein that not only the couples suffered, but the children of this too – the ‘bastard black/yellow/brown kids’ that nobody wanted. The ones that were shipped off to childrens homes and were ostracised from the get go because they were deemed ‘different’ or the ones who grew up in a loving home despite their perceived ‘difference’ from their adopted parents.
*Are you British and mixed-race yourself, Randy?
No. My children are of mixed race though, and that drives my interest in the subject.
Here are the links Randy….
http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b015qms8/Mixed_Britannia_19101939/
http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b015ydfs/Mixed_Britannia_19401965/
http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b016bjdb/Mixed_Britannia_19652011/
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@Randy
Don’t you think mixed relationships/ marriages and their offspring were seen INFERIOR in the past (and still are in many respect), so seeing them in positive light is just trying to see them as EQUAL to that of the WP?
It takes NOTHING away from WP. Do you feel your “whiteness” attacked by this? Why so defensive? They are equal to you and your family, you know.
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@Hannu
How you doing? Work/life any better? Are you courting yet? 🙂
Don’t you think mixed relationships/ marriages and their offspring were seen INFERIOR in the past (and still are in many respect), so seeing them in positive light is just trying to see them as EQUAL to that of the WP?
I get what you are you are saying here Hannu, though I do think/hope that more and more people are appreciating and celebrating this type of diversity more and more. The stigma of the Brown Baby Problem that was in the 50’s and 60’s is not as overt generally though I appreciate that this may not be the case in ALL areas.
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@ Demerera
I might, I might… It’s a long way to court, but I do see something brown and beautiful in the far distance… 😛
Niom.
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@Hannu
I might, I might… It’s a long way to court, but I do see something brown and beautiful in the far distance…
Oh come on man…dont leave me in suspense like that!!!! Nah, I am being nosey but genuinely excited for you too :-O
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@Demerera
She’s far, yet close… 😉
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@Demerera, thank you for the links to the programme.
Bulanik:
I’m referring to references in popular media. White characters are often “praised” for their choice of an IR mate or IR dating habits. Mixed children are often referenced as having beneficial attributes.
Bulanik:
I think we might be agreeing on a certain point here. If Eurasian children, for example, are evaluated as inherently possessing positive values, then we’ve crossed a subtle, but in my view very serious bridge. In allowing a certain type of person to be praised, the door is thrown wide open to judge people on such characteristics.
Anyone who despises racism should object just as strenuously to the labeling of Eurasian children as being “cute” as to the denigration of African-descended children.
Hannu:
I certainly appreciate when such relationships and children are seen in an equal light. But to me, a “positive” light is as bad as a “negative” one, because then you’re not giving everyone equal status, rather you’re creating a non-equal value judgment. I have to wonder how a society which is at least nominally committed to equality has granted these media entity judges such privilege. And who judges the judges?
Hannu:
I do see a disparity in the level of esteem certain organs within society (the media, the education system) grants different races. For example, when my children attend college, they can join a taxpayer and tuition-funded “Asian Student Union” and participate in various officially sanctioned “Asian Pride” events. Corresponding institutions for the white half of their heritage are impermissible.
How shall I explain this difference to my children, except to say that the media and educational institutions are run by racist bigots who hypocritically only allow them to express pride in half of their genetic birthright.
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@Randy
They are giving privileges now because they were denied of equal opprtunities in the past.
They are just trying to balance the scales. And the scales is still unbalanced, but it’s shifting in the right direction. Mistakes are mad of course, no system is perfect (except the American system, of course. I forgot)
WP are the majority and have more privileges from the get go. You talk about “positive racism” which is the favorite stick horse for people who fear that they are not treated like they are someone special anymore. They just need to wake up and realize they NEVER were.
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I am a British Eurasian with a White mother and East Asian father. I felt I could add to the conversation since it is about mixed Britain and Eurasians came up.
While I think that, today, a number of societies do give East Asian/White people a higher status than any race/Black people, I certainly didn’t feel like I was `special’ growing up in the UK. Being Eurasian was not seen as a positive thing and we (my brother and I) often experienced violence and threats for daring to choose the country we were born in as our home. People would tell my mother they could never imagine having children with an East Asian man because `they would look so hideous.’ Our names and East Asian features were constantly mocked. My brother and I were the only ones in an entire school. White/Black children were much higher in number and we were their first choice of victim as well. Them plus all the White kids made nearly everyone our enemy. Growing up Eurasian in Britain was one of the worst and most painful experiences of my life.
As for being considered `exotic in a good way’… the word instantly reminds me of one event where I was clearly being seen as exotic. It was not flattering nor uplifting at all. I was having a meal with three White people. One Dutch, two Americans. During our discussion, the women at a nearby table kept looking at me and flinging out random East Asian ethnicities. At first, I thought it was my imagination because this was all in my third language. One of them decides finding out what `exotic land’ I come from is important enough to interrupt our conversation. She comes over puts her hands on her knees and looks down at me like I’m a three-year-old before asking where I am from. All the White people assume she is talking to all of us since we’re quite an international group and they answer the question too: we’re American, I’m Dutch. She gives them all cursory nods, then turns back to me with a huge grin. `British.’ Her face falls, but thankfully she has sense enough not to ask `But where are you really from?’ or demanding to know where my parents come from.
I do not appreciate having my race discussed out loud like I’m some interesting looking new breed at the dog show. I’m a human being and I might actually feel insulted that ‘what IS she?’ is the topic of conversation at their dinner table. Why should I have to explain my appearance to strangers who find me so exotic they have to interrupt my meal out with friends and family so that they can define me? People who think I am exotic are never interested in me as a person, just which boxes they can tick to describe me.
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@Iris:
I thank you with all my heart. I have been having a very difficult time these days,and I can only imagine what my mom is going through, but I am comforted knowing that there are people out there who care. Thank you! 😀
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Leigh,
How’s your mom doing? Also, how have you been?
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@Iris
Hi. You also might find the programme Mixed Brittainia quite interesting. You will see the links on the last post I put up on here to Randy.
Your post reminded me of what was unfortunately all too common an occurrence at schools. When I was at school, it was deemed ALL black people came from Africa – it was irrelevant if they did or didnt cos who they were, just didnt matter. Comedians like Jim Davidson were popular with his talk of his black friend ‘Chalky’ where white kids would mimic this character when talking to black people.
Also how appalling was your experience when people think they can treat you like an object and the cheek of it too when you didnt match up to her stereotypical idea of you.
I remember when I went to Ireland a few years back and had this man approach me for a dance. At the end of the dance, he asked me where I was from and when I said England he responded, enraged ‘I hate the British!’. I felt that he felt like I had ‘tricked’ him because of own assumptions I guess. I was taken aback I must say as naively, I forgot about the ‘Troubles’ and I guess I didnt account for the fact that it still could provoke such strong feelings on those in the here and now.
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Hannu said:
Your honesty is refreshing.
Here’s an idea: let us have complete transparency in this debate.
Institutions of higher learning should immediately abandon the hypocritical pretense and artifice of “equality” and state publicly and forthrightly that they practice “corrective racism”.
Let them state the scope, magnitude, and other parameters of their prescriptive discrimination, and let society judge them on these policies.
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@Bulanik
Generally speaking, how do you teach your mixed race child about her/his heritage?
Its talking to the child and telling them about their heritage from both parents – by what has been passed down first and foremost via the familly and then backing that up where feasible via books etc. I kid you not when I say this, due to factions in my family I had ‘heard’ many things growing up and were sceptical as to the truth and origins myself so the learning and revelation came not only to the children but to me as an adult at times too.
I dont know wheter this is always done effectively though. I see a lot of young mixed boys in particular, who strut around and purport to all the negative stereotypes that are thrown around about black men in an attempt to emulate their fathers or a passed down, ideal of what their fathers were . I guess on some level this will be encouraged by their white mothers who obviously liked this about their black men in the first place. When you talk to these boys, you see that they are so far removed from these negative stereotypes its unreal but they seem to go back to it almost as if its expected of them. This is NOT always the case though – I am mindful of the fact that in my early years, people like Daley Thomson and The boxer (John or was it Joe) Conteh became heroes very quickly amongst my peers who forgot what colour these men were cos they admired their prowess so much and both these men had white mothers but both seemed aware of both sides of their heritage (though admittedly never seemed keen to discuss it on tv – I guess they were uncomfortable being held up as ‘ambassadors’ on what at the time was quite a contentious subject.
I rail against this stereotyping and get annoyed when it happens still in real life. My pet peeve is X Factor this i.e. if Louis Walsh likens Mica B to one more Black person on the telly that she in NO WAY resembles I will scream. Black people do not ALL look and act alike – they are not interchangeable ahhhhhhh- rant over 🙂
How, particularly, does the white parent do this if they are single parent to a mixed race child?
I know some white people struggle with this in different ways though there are others that excel. It really depends on the type of person that you are do you grow stronger in the face of adversity or crumble? If I were to say what ‘a’ problem is, having discussed this with friends and relatives, what occurs most frequently is..
Ignoring/denying any ‘differences’ in that child in the hope that they will be accepted as the norm in any different societal group. Whilst I understand this approach, I think there comes a time in any mixed childs life when they need to be made aware how they are perceived in society, the whys and wherefores and how irrelievant these perceptions should be to them as individuals. Too often, and I have said it on here before, mixed race used to mean ‘mixed up’ by a well meaning parent not wanting their child to have to face the nasty negative attitudes of people out there and as a parent myself, I strongly feel that need to protect too, but, there is that other sense of responsibility that tries to prepare your child for the somewhat unpleasant sides of life too.
One example that comes to mind is of a woman I know who has a mixed race daughter. The poor girls hair was like braken. The mother was shown by several people, both black and white approaches on how to do the girls hair. All she kept saying is ‘I cant, can one of you do it for me’ Despite being told how to maintain the childs hair she refuses to listen, instead, treating it like European hair. 1 year ago, just as the child was starting secondary school, she had to have her hair cut leaving 1″ all over because mum ‘couldnt’ get to grips with her hair. Even suggesting taking her to an afro European salon left mum cold. The initial statement was that she was wary of black women ‘screwing up their faces’ at her for having a mixed race kid – the real reason (I think) is because she knows she hasnt made an effort.
And how does a white parent of a mixed race child raise their child to respect, understand and appreciate their white (and European) heritage? In this instance there will be a number of resources available to them, after all we are surrounded by it day to day. What is difficult to do is to get the balance and understand and appreciate other diverse ethnicities etc. And, how to teach a mixed race child about people’s perceptions and mis-perceptions? I guess your own experiences come to pass here, though, for single white parents or white parents of mixed race children, there are lots of different organisations aimed at supporting and helping in terms of practical advice and more indepth in terms of discussions to aid understanding and for those said children to see that they are not alone, particularly if you live in a predominantly white area and there are no others that ‘look’ like you and you feel isolated. You will see an example of this on Mixed Britannia where a mixed race girl talks about her exprience of being the only POC in a Scottish town and how she got treated.
I don’t profess to be a master at this subject, particularly as I even as an adult am appalled and still surprised in turn at peoples perceptions and behaviours generally. The most I can do for them is to give them the tools to be happy whole, functional individuals – this was not something that I was privy to growing up and I can understand how much of a drawback it can be in adulthood if you are not yet on track at this stage.
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Black people had better start preparing now because the Global economy is on the verge of total collapse, and when it does collapse and there is scarcity of food and other essential goods White people will turn very nasty. The Rednecks have been stockpiling weapons since the election of Barack Obama in a paranoid panic.
“It was always inevitable, on a finite planet, that there would be a limit to economic growth. Finally we have reached the point where the paradigm of perpetual growth can no longer be maintained. Capitalism was handy in an era of rapid growth. For an era of non-growth, a different game is being prepared. With the collapse, the bailouts, and the total failure to pursue any kind of effective recovery program, the signals are very clear: the system will be allowed to collapse totally, thus clearing the ground for a pre-architected ‘solution’.
Maintaining order in a time of collapse, when for example there might not be enough food to go around, will be a nasty business. People may get quite unruly if their families are starving. Harsh measures may be required. In order to deal with a collapse scenario, Washington has come up with a new disaster-response protocol, that we saw tested in New Orleans and in Haiti.
In order to clear the way for the carbon-credit economy, it will be necessary for Western currencies to collapse, to become worthless, as nations become increasingly insolvent, and the global financial system continues to be systematically dismantled. The carbon currency will be introduced as an enlightened, progressive ‘solution’ to the crisis, a currency linked to something real, and to sustainability.
Culturally, the post-capitalist era will be a bit like the medieval era, with aristocrats and lords on top, and the rest peasants and serfs. Wealth will be measured by entitlements more than by acquisitions or earnings. Those outside the bureaucratic hierarchies are the serfs, with subsistence entitlements. Within the bureaucracies, entitlements are related to rank in the hierarchy. Those who operate in the central global institutions are lords of empire, with unlimited access to credits.”
To read more:
http://rkmdocs.blogspot.com/2010/02/prognosis-2012.html
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@Bulanik
Previous response is in moderation…
This woman simply assumed that I might have a European-sounding surname given to my ancestors during slavery. (I don’t have such a surname because this is not my father’s family history.)
SNAP! I know who I am and people identify me with a certain race but I sense they are sometimes uncertain, being more aware now as more diverse ethnicities come through…. My surname is celtic in origin from my great grandfather who hailed from the south of Ireland. He and several siblings came and settled where my great grandmother lived and he married her. His siblings all settled with ‘native’ people too.
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Can’t believe i’m sat here watching Grease…….for the trillionth time lol
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@Robert:
I follow this stuff closely. I’m afraid you may be right about some things , but I’m hoping and praying you’re not. What made America strong was a vibrant middle class. (Yes I’m speaking in the past tense). That middle class is shrinking. People who don’t follow what’s playing out on the international stage are walking around in La La Land. They don’t see what’s coming. And the gridlock I see in Washington gives me no comfort at all.
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@Randy
You are blind and would like to live in a fantasy world. Just admit it. You suffer of snow blindness. None of your vocabulary can save you. Just open your eyes and see the way the world really is. The way it really is, not the way it SHOULD be. Huge difference, nature boy.
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@Bulanik
Yet, growing up in London it became clear that no matter how Irish an Irish person was, and not British, they were WHITE when it suited them. And for perhaps many if not all, being WHITE and having white privilege, suited them very well thank you
I hear what you are saying here loud and clear – I have to say though, when I went to Ireland, I sensed a fierce pride in the culture of ‘Irishness’. It seems that this need to ‘assimilate’ can be so strong that people, at times, will put aside their identity in a bid to ‘belong’
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Thank you. I will definitely check them out.
As someone with an `ambiguous’ face, I have sometimes had such reactions. It can be frightening to incite such rage simply by not fitting a stranger’s assumptions about you.
I still think racism against Eurasians continues in a number of places and will continue because racism against East Asians persists as well. The violence and threats I experienced continued through the 90s and even into the 2000s. While it may be less likely I’ll get physically attacked when I return to the UK, I can always expect at least one person to mock my surname at some point, whether it is at passport control or when I hand over my credit card to purchase something.
I think you are absolutely right that it was the White, Black and mixed Black/White children who react the most violently towards other mixed children. I know that some of the Black/White children probably went through their own struggles, though I always wondered how that could justify their treatment of others such as myself. After all I experienced, I never once considered doing the same to another human being.
I completely agree. Now, having lived on three different continents and having a slightly different accent, I get asked `Where are you really from?’ a lot more. Oh, yes. I’m all too familiar with the disgusted sneer after having lived in France. LOL
I think this is a very important thing to teach children, one for which my own parents were entirely unprepared. I was taught nothing and left confused as to why other children treated me the way they did until I was old enough to make the connection and the insults became more specific.
I admire you for teaching your child(ren) about their heritage. Unfortunately, my father did not have a lot of time outside of work to teach us about our heritage and my mother could not have explained, so my brother and I were left quite in the dark about our East Asian heritage. We learned nothing apart from where our father came from and that the UK had a lot of bastardised versions of his home country’s cuisine.
I actually think the main reason why some mixed race folk may feel this way is not from being mixed by itself, but from of how we are treated by others because of that. If I were not rejected and violently attacked by others, would I have had anything to whine about in regards to being mixed? No. Everything negative about my experience as a mixed-race person came from the way other people reacted to me! If society did not dictate that every mixed person should know everything about each and every one of their racial/ethnic heritages, would I have ever felt less of a person for not speaking my father’s language or having visited his home country? No. I would probably still have had a healthy curiosity, but I would not have felt as if I were missing something.
Mixed people are who they are. If they are born in the UK and know only British culture, who says they should know more if they and their families are content with that? Plenty of White British people whose parents or grandparents come from multiple European countries are not expected to be fluent in all those languages and know everything about those countries, so why are mixed POC expected to be walking encyclopaedias on their parents’ ancestry and perfectly multilingual? Does it all go back to us having to educate White people on all those fascinating, `exotic’ faraway places?
This is absolutely true and I think it relates to what I said above. White society doesn’t want to hear about a mixed POC who is just like every other White person in their society. They want to hear something `exotic’, but at the same time something that fits their expectations of what POC are meant to be. For example, no one would want to hear a Eurasian story like mine because nobody with East Asian heritage should be poor, not have strict parents, not study piano and violin and have a dysfunctional family life. That’s too `out of the box’ for people to accept even though it is 100% true and, as a Eurasian person, it is a 100% authentic Eurasian experience!
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@Bulanik and
Nom De Plume
“I follow this stuff closely. I’m afraid you may be right about some things , but I’m hoping and praying you’re not.”
Me too because if I am right and the global financial system does collapse it would be a nightmare scenario, Black people would be in a great deal of danger and starvation is a horrendous way to die. Within hours of the crash people would rush to all the shops in a panic and take all the food and drink. The shelves would be empty within hours there would be no food anywhere. People would resort to cannibalism in desperation. If there is a scarcity of food and other necessities being shared out the so-called tolerance, color blindness and post racial mask would soon come of our White brothers and sisters. When it’s being shared out I could imagine the White people here saying sorry but British (meaning White people) first. They would have absolutely no problem with letting us die.
From what I’ve read I now believe it’s all on the brink of collapse, I’ve read articles from people who love capitalism and have made a fortune from it say the game is up and the whole system is going to crash soon and that they want to convert their money to actual gold and that gold certificates are worthless to them. Some of the people who predicted the first crash accurately have also predicted it’s going to crash again in the near future.
I’m not sure whether it’s going to collapse because the powers that be sabotaged it on purpose or whether they’ve just lost control of their system but either way it’s the same outcome. The guy who’s article I posted a link to does make a compelling case that it is deliberate and by design, I’m inclined to believe it because I know that type don’t leave anything to chance.
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@Robert
Your awareness is spot on Robert about the global economic crash. In fact its already happening much as you describe.
Something I highlighted myself over a year ago…
http://wordpress.kwamla.com/?p=273
The fact is we do not really know exactly how things will play out or end up. What is probably true is there will be some type of panic early on. But I don’t expect this to last long. The Occupy protests taking place globally already demonstrate what it’s possible to achieve when people collectively unite around this pressing financial issue.
But regardless of the reasons for it global awareness that something is drastically wrong with the economy is growing…
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Hannu Lipponen:
You’re probably right. I suppose it’s unrealistic to expect institutions of higher learning to maintain transparent, consistent standards with regards to racial issues.
I’ll just have to prepare my kids to accept that the enforced dogma only permits them to celebrate half of their heritage.
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Finally got the gumption to start my own blog,
http://louiejacuzzi.wordpress.com
I’m a noob, so y’all be nice
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@brothawolf:
Hi, bw. Thank you for your concern. My mom is doing okay, health-wise. Thankfully, her condition hasn’t deteriorated. She’s been taking it all in stride and is being very strong. We have not given up hope and are more determined than ever to beat this! As for how I’m doing, well, let’s just say I’ve been very worried and stressed. It’s very difficult to see someone I love go through this. I’ve had many a tears these days praying for a miracle.
@Bulanik:
I cannot thank you and everyone here enough for the moral and emotional support especially during this difficult time. I am truly grateful to you all! Much love! ❤
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@Leigh
That’s good…You and your family are in my thoughts.
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@Leigh,
Glad to hear that your mum is stable and that you guys are ever more hopeful for her. Thinking of you and your family at this time lovey, do keep us posted wont you. <<<<>>>>>
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@Leigh
Apologies, the missing word was HUGS
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@Bulanik
I was amused at your depiction of the ‘toys’ in the airport shop. Though not a prude, I am still naive as to the ‘delights’ available that ‘add flavour’ so to speak.lol
How funny then that a specific ‘colour’ is so popular – I wonder if people have a ‘preference’ so to speak?
I saw a programme a few years ago called ‘Guys and Dolls’ where it focused on 3 individuals who chose to live their lives with a custom made real life doll. They could order them a specific colour, figure, size, shape, height, hair colour, whether their mouth was open or closed and the size of other orificies…. It was quite a revalation really, these guys had all but given up on women or the hope of meeting a ‘real’ woman. They showed one guy who hooked up with a woman and the filmed the start of this relationship but when she was ‘introduced’ to his ‘other’ women, she started to look uneasy, particularly when he said he wouldnt be getting rid of them even if they got serious – he had 7 of them in total and at £3000 a pop, a small fortune. She couldnt get her head around it and did the off – cant say I blame her, didnt seem he was ready for a proper relationship at that time….
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@ Randy
Like I said, the society is not that far advanced just yet.
No society is totally equal today, never was nor probably will ever be. But we must strive towards the ideal.
You act like there was no PAST to the present.
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Hannu Lipponen said:
Reasonable people can disagree in a reasonable manner about how to create a more equal society. However, the dishonesty and disingenuous nature of race relations in the education system is unacceptable.
It’s high farce that these institutions of higher learning, which laud themselves to nearly no end about their equality-ness, nonetheless treat students of different races differently.
The contradiction is rather bumptiously Orwellian.
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@Bulanik
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@Bulanik
I am sorry it was difficult to read. I have to admit that reading this blog and the comments is sometimes very difficult for me to do as well. Some things we go through in life are so painful that no matter how much we move past them, there will always be scars and being reminded of them can sting. Nevertheless, reading this is such a rewarding experience. Especially when you are able to communicate with others who know and understand what you have lived through.
Yes, you would think those who suffer would be able to show more humanity. However, sometimes people become too damaged psychologically. It is not difficult for me to imagine, with what some mixed race children go through, that some of these people developed personality disorders and that this was why they were unable to put themselves in another’s shoes or to feel anything for them.
Despite this, not everyone who lacks empathy has a disorder. For those people who seem to have no humanity and no history of some form of abuse, I cannot even begin to imagine how their behaviour can be explained…
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Guess many of you are celebrating Thanksgiving today – enjoy your time with your nearest and dearest 🙂
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@Bulanik
But, that said, don’t people often list the qualities they seek in a prospective partner?
Yes we do dont we, both physical and behavioural attributes. We know what we like, and what we dont like – some people are more discerning than other, some less so. I do think that there is someone out there for everyone though, so diverse is this world and rich in humanity – dont you?
Haven’t we all seen couples that don’t really listen to each other or notice what each other looks like after a time?
Sometimes I wonder if this is more something that gets built up over time i.e. if I speak to OH about anything financial, he wants to know the T’s and C’s to ensure that we get GVFM whilst I just find this tedious so I switch off cos I feel that I know exactly where this is leading to. In the words of Barbara Dickinson and Elaine Paige I know him so welll lol
I know I have…. I’ve certainly heard women complain that their men seem to dread talking to them and, I’ve also heard women say that they sometimes feel like they are having The Relationship on their own!
Hmmm, this whole ‘my wifes a nag’ thang is oftentimes, imo overused though, I have also seen this label justified too. The reality is, men are from Mars and Women from Venus isnt it really. I dont always think that in a relationship that its about finding someone who likes what you like etc, its about complimenting certain aspects of each other.
What are your thoughts about the perspective of the men in the film?
It almost seems as though they have ‘given up’ in terms of finding a mate. None of them would be unable to meet a potential partner in real life, despite certain obvious ‘quirks’ in their personality and way of thinking. This type of sexual deviance is uncommon and is usually the stuff of jokes isnt it – I guess then for the people in the midst of this so to speak, there is the fear that they will not be taken seriously should they decide to embark on a relationship.
What do think it says about ‘real’ relationships?
I dont really think the two are comparable though appreciate that in the ‘minds’ of these individuals they are indeed the same.
What are your thoughts on this? If you met someone and was about to embark on a relationship with them and they revealed this side of their personality to you would it put you off? Do you think for the most part couples fall into a relationship and become complacent with each other and almost take each other for granted?
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@ Parfum Bleu:
I deleted your last comment by mistake.
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Anyone going to see/been to see the Iron Lady starring Meryl Streep as Margaret Thatcher?
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Abagond, why do you use bambi in the header? I’ve been reading your blog for sometime, but just really noticed it now
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@ dee:
I need to change that picture. Bambi meant I was taking a break from writing posts about racist killings. Bambi represents innocence, but he also represents Disneyfication (sanitized reality): Not only did Disney utterly water down the book in the now-famous Disney fashion, but the film played on at the very time when Hitler was sending the Jews of the Warsaw Ghetto to Treblinka.
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@bulanik
My earliest memory of Maggie is singing ‘Thatcher Thatcher the milk snatcher’ at school. It all went downhill from there i.e. miners strikes, decline in industry in the north of England, the battles with the Trade Unions, mass unemployment. Whilst I didnt necessarily agree with her policies (this is in retropsect as I was a mere babe at the time) I will give her her due and say she had more cojones??? than any of the men in the cabinet at that time…and probably since too. Single minded, determined – The Lady definately was ‘not for turning’.
Meryl Streep as the Iron Lady!!! What a bloody intriguing thought.
Naturally, I would have preferred a British actress (Helen, why weren’t you cast?) to have played her, but Ms Streep has got to be stupendous, because she is probably one of, if not the finest film actor around. However, it sounds like a film probably geared to appeal strongly to the American audience.
It briefly crossed my mind that Helen Mirren would be a good person for that role however, I guess the fact that she has already played the Queen has determined the fact that they have had to find someone else to play this. Meryl will definately do it justice though I have heard that Mrs T’s son and daughter are not happy with the depiction of family life.
I think I shall wait for it to come out on DVD as I did with the film ‘The Queen’ and with ‘The Kings Speech’. Some films are better watched at home and dont need all the ‘effects’ you get in a cinema like other action blockbusters.
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LOL Bulanik, 😉
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Can’t find the bloomin other thread I was posting on but, the song has stuck in my head so its only right that I should get it into the heads of others too…:-)
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@Bulanik
Those ladies were truly inspirational and put me to shame. I dont experiment too much with colour – I understand that you can get a ‘professional’ to help you in what tones suit your skin etc and I am intrigued I must confess.
Even make up, when I wear it is generally muted tones. My mum only ever wore a little bit of lippy and pencilled her eyebrows but she’s such a beauty she never needed anything really 🙂 . I have recently purchased some glitter eyeshadow that I might experiment with when I go out over the festive period….maybe I might even get my legs out and wear a skirt (havent done this in years since my teens/twenties when I used to wear my knee high boots or FMB’s as some men call them…lol
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@Bulanik,
What about this one? Another wicked tune from yesteryear…
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@Bulanik
I have an awareness of the some of the subjects but in terms of context, often feel that I don’t have any ‘real’ experience of the issues raised so I bow out of it.
I imagine that you would be able to contribute much as you are so well read.
I find this site quite fascinating in terms of the types of people that it attracts and the ‘unwitting’ way that some of the people fall into the categories that Abagond has so accurately portrayed on here. I also like the fact that there are those exceptions and those who genuinely understand from a their perspective i.e. Hannu, Leigh, King, Sepultra, Herenith etc. Even the people who I don’t ‘get’ it is interesting to thrash things out giving further insight into what makes ‘others’ tick etc.
I was initially drawn to this site when I was looking at statistics on IR relationships but came across another one before this which I confess, left me cold in terms of the way some women were so desperate to snare a mate, they often, to my mind, degraded themselves for all to see.
What about you? What initially drew you here? BTW, how are things in the Emerald Isle? I imagine its gonna be a great craic over the next coming weeks leading up to the festive period
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I have an awareness of the some of the subjects but in terms of context, often feel that I don’t have any ‘real’ experience of the issues raised so I bow out of it.
I imagine that you would be able to contribute much as you are so well read. 🙂
I find this site quite fascinating in terms of the types of people that it attracts and the ‘unwitting’ way that some of the people fall into the categories that Abagond has so accurately portrayed on here. I also like the fact that there are those exceptions and those who genuinely understand from a their perspective i.e. Hannu, Leigh, King, Sepultra, Herenith etc. Even the people who I don’t ‘get’ it is interesting to thrash things out giving further insight into what makes ‘others’ tick etc.
I was initially drawn to this site when I was looking at statistics on IR relationships but came across another one before this which I confess, left me cold in terms of the way some women were so desperate to snare a mate, they often, to my mind, degraded themselves for all to see.
What about you? What initially drew you here? BTW, how are things in the Emerald Isle? I imagine its gonna be a great craic over the next coming weeks leading up to the festive period – 🙂
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@Abagond et al
Anyone with a few spare minutes, watch ‘My Tram Experience’. It features a woman sounding off in the vilest way, all done in the presence of her child!
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^^^ Forgot to say, its on you tube.
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@Bulanik
Firstly, let me say you always come across loud and clear to me 🙂 I like your inquisitiveness and you come across to me as a balanced individual.
Demerera, generally, I agree with what you say here: “… the ‘unwitting’ way that some of the people fall into the categories….” But I also think other commenters are doing exactly the same thing back, and slotting our probably English-sounding comments (?) into a category we may not belong to in our own estimation.
I often wonder this too…whether people ‘get’ what I am saying. Its hard at times not to ‘judge’ when someone writes something and sometimes, the only time you can clarify things is when you query it. Lets hope that whilst we are learning about life State-wide others are gaining an understanding Brit-wide too.
Meanwhile I agree with you about the economy- it will be a frugal christmas in our household in terms of gifts though rich in family time, togetherness..and food – bliss 🙂 Looking forward to a bit of macaroni cheese courtesy of my mum with my traditional xmas dinner.
Here in Ireland, I rarely see any black women, or Indian women – it’s a bit too pale! Also, people here tend to talk about the beauty of white women like – it is the only kind there is! Very limited. Very excluding.
When I was in the south I was surprised to see only 1 or 2 POC in Dublin but when I ventured further north, there were more, though certainly not a majority of a community of. I am surprised that the talk seems to be geared primarily towards WW and that included in that they do not at least to allude to an appreciation for BW . The majority I encountered were very quick to express a healthy interest in WOC lol. I know there are many Celtic beauties there for them to feast their eyes on 🙂 nevertheless I have not known them to be backwards coming forward about such matter . Perhaps you bring out the child in them and they are shy to express such things to you for fear of offending you in some way?
Of course though for every ‘rule’ there are the exceptions and my observations are generic. Living there it obviously is a different matter…
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@abagond:
wow, I liked the meaning behind the bambi photo. just noticed you put up a new one. what does this one mean?
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@ dee
The picture comes from Van Gogh’s “Cafe Terrace at Night” (1888) of a cafe in Arles, France. I see it as a picture of us commenters at a late night French cafe.
Here is the picture it comes from:
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@Bulanik
If you are dyslexic, dyslexia should be taught in every school. 😉
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@Bulanik
Lovin that chooooooooon – totally sublime
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@Bulanik
I always worry whether I am being fair in my answers, and whether I have written things down in a clear way – that how I really mean it and in a comprehensible way. Abagond did not understand a question I put to him the other day about “Aya” (https://abagond.wordpress.com/2011/11/21/aya/). I bet he hasn’t been the first not to get what I am saying!
I think when anybody writes in the vernacular there is always the danger of not being interpreted correctly or understood, regardless. One of the main and more distinguished commenters on here suggested that you write your own blog – proof that whether or not the odd comment is not understood, the majority are 🙂
.
Yes, the RoI is “whiter” than Northern Ireland (or, as we say here: “Norn Iron” – remember to say it with accent – lol). I can hear it loud and clear lol. I wasnt initially keen on the northern accent but it has grown on me over the years and now, regardless of the ‘region’ of Irish man, I do love to have a dialogue with them (generally) and hear the blarney when they flirt.
You are spot on that most Irish people do openly and warmly appreciate the beauty of WoC, but black women, Indian women, etc., are scarce.
Therefore, a WoC will not feature in everyday culture here. Of course there is Samantha Mumba,
http://www.starpulse.com/Music/Mumba,_Samantha/gallery/DGG-031605/
I remember Samantha Mumba 🙂
The only other well known black woman in the Republic I can think of would be Lucia Evans, a lovely, talented young woman who found fame in a singing contest here a few years back :http://www.myspace.com/luciaevans/photos/55784733#%7B%22ImageId%22%3A55784733%7D
Samantha has an Irish mother and a Zambian father. Lucia comes from Zimbabwe originally, I believe.
I wonder what the Irish/black experience is like? As you say, it is rare to see BW and other POC so growing up as a ‘native’ with this heritage must have been, for want of a better word, a ‘different’ kind of experience.
My friend said: “Oh, you like a bit of meat on your women?”
The Nigerian said yes, and explained that it was a “nicer experience” (??), is this the ‘more cushion for the pushin’ possibly that he is referring ot here or was he just trying to be kind and not say that he doesnt find Irish women attractive do you think?
and my Irish friend answered that he had noticed the following:
– that black women’s skin tended to be smooth and remain unlined – even in mature years,
– in fact he said he noticed that black women aged very well indeed
– that if black women’s posture, shape and muscle tone was “amazing”
– that black women, if they put on a little weight – carried their weight well – better than – in his opinion – an Irish woman could,
– he thought their hair was “unique” – it went upwards and did not ‘drape’ in a boring, flat way, and looked very soft, and,
– considered the brown and black skin tones endlessly interesting, also said
– that he noticed black women’s and Indian women’s eyes were ‘very deep’.
I was totally taken aback. Talk about noticing stuff! I just looked on in silence.
@Bulanik. He has obviously been observing YOU and noticed elements of the above and possibly more :-), is it possible that the two of you could become more than ‘just friends…’ 😉
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@Bulanik
This used to get me groovin in my teens….Lots of good memories of the Second Summer of Love….http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qaLEpc0lBJU
BTW, following on from your previous post which talks at US and UK versions of ‘race’ I urge you to go to you tube and look at ‘My Tram Experience’ what an eye opener – be interested to hear what you would have done had you been a bystander in that situation…
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@Bulanik
I suppose it stems from the late 19th century of national romanticism. Finns felt the need to, much to the example of the rest of the Europe, to be acknowledged as their own nation, and education was a way to make people aware of that pursuit (good or bad, I’m not a nationalist myself. I had no say where I was born).
Now, I do understand that the way Finns view themselves is a reflection of romanticized ideas, but the importance of education remains valid even to this day. Teachers were highly valued and still are to this day. It is a highly valued profession, and our pedagogic system has the luxury of choosing from high number of quality applicants to enter said education. All teachers have master’s degrees and are thought of nothing less that professionals nurturing young minds.
Sounds a bit too dignified, but teachers are still highly respected, but are also demanded of a lot. I wouldn’t want to be one, parents would piss me off! 😀
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@Bulanik
The appreciation of education and the willingness to develop it even further? As a tiny nation we feel that education is the key to keep up with the rat race of globalization. Besides, I’ve for a long time felt that small nations look outward, whereas big ones stare inwards. As is evident in this blog as well.
The interesting thing about PISA is that finnish kids excelled even though they disliked school, lol.
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@Bulanik
You are the only one who gives a sh*t. I know you like to question, but very few people here are interested in the answers. However: http://www.pisa.oecd.org/pages/0,2987,en_32252351_32235731_1_1_1_1_1,00.html
I don’t think americans at Abagond’s really give a crap what people outside USA think, whether it be issues of race or whatnot.
They do not see the bigger picture. How racial relations and globalization are inevitably conjoined. That the racism in US is not a singularity.
The power of the west will diminish. The only way to survive is to try to understand each other. Ideological bs, of course.
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@Bulanik
http://www.oph.fi/english/publications/2009/national_core_curricula_for_basic_education
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@ Hannu
My husband studied for his PhD in Finland because of the excellent education there. Unfortunately, this is never recognised, especially when he is applying for jobs in the US. Only places like Harvard are good enough. People are more likely to hire a not-so-talented person who went to Harvard as opposed to a talented person who graduated from an equally prestigious university outside of the US. e.g. He knows of someone who cannot work independently at all, has few ideas and has never published something that new for the academic community. Yet, since this person went to Harvard, they immediately landed a permanent job at a top university in the US. Whereas geniuses who have been involved in revolutionary projects and are constantly conducting new research cannot get a permanent job in the US because there is no top-notch American university on their CV. The US is too insular.
@ Bulanik
The woman on the tube doesn’t surprise me either. From my own experiences I know that some people never learn that racism is evil, they just learn to suppress it better.
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@Hannu: How many schools in Finland require metal detectors at the entrances and armed police to keep the students from assaulting each other?
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@Bulanik, Hannu, Iris
Hope this is set in a coherent way lol – apologies if not
They do not see the bigger picture. How racial relations and globalization are inevitably conjoined. That the racism in US is not a singularity. The power of the west will diminish. The only way to survive is to try to understand each other. Ideological bs, of course.
Excellent thought mode and if you are evidence of this Hannu, clearly it works in practice too 🙂 . I do think that other nations are more ‘aware’ of global situations than others. Anyone care to speculate why this is?
@Bulanik, Yes, the US is too insular. It’s almost as though there is a mental block or a blind spot when many – not all – Americans relate to some non-Americans and many non-American things…..This attitude doesn’t help the culture to mature Another excellent observation and I guess a pretty telling one judging by some of the topics Abagond raises and the responses therein. At times, I cant believe we are in the 21st century so, whilst I am under no illusion that my comments are significant in the grand scheme of things, collectively, the comments of those of us outside the US will hopefully bring forth some aspects of awareness of things that happen outside the US and a different ‘context’ of issues therein.
As a tiny nation we feel that education is the key to keep up with the rat race of globalization. Besides, I’ve for a long time felt that small nations look outward, whereas big ones stare inwards. As is evident in this blog as well.
@Hannu As for education, for some reason I cant access the links you have sent (been having I.T. issues for a few days now – must get BIL to have a look at things) but I am always in awe of anyone who can speak a second language let alone write (and flirt 😉 in it), I am guessing you learned English at School? From what age? Is it compulsory? Do you learn other languages too?
BTW, I don’t think the comment is BS – Idealistic at this time, maybe but insurmountable – no. This is something that will benefit ALL on some level.
@Bulanik: Whilst I notice some aspects of education and the curriculum have become much more eclectic/diverse and improved, certainly in terms of when I went to school, some aspects of ‘learning’ do not meet with my approval. One such example is ‘peer assessment’ particularly in a subject such as Literacy where one pupil ‘marks’ the work of another pupil and this is ‘checked’ a couple of weeks down the line by the teacher. Students do have parameters which they have to follow however, if you have a pupil that in themselves is lacking in core areas of grammar etc, how can they mark this work adequately? Apparently this is practiced throughout many Upper schools but I think there are too many flaws in this, particularly in a subject like English. Different if it is Numeracy/Maths where there is generally 1 answer – thats just my opinion though and a conversation I have had with my friend who is a teacher in Ireland who agrees with my concerns.
@Iris: I too have noticed this type of ‘elitism’ and wonder how this can be addressed? My only thought is that there should be 1 worldwide governing body – this too would ensure cohesion and understanding between the nations as to standards etc.
Re the woman on the Tram: *Sigh* she reminds me of a couple of the women on my estate when I grew up one of which gave me a ‘backhander’ for something that was way out of my control and nothing to do with me either. In all honesty, I wouldn’t be ‘getting into it’ with her, no. Her level of comprehension would clearly not be able to compute what I would have to say anyway….. 😉
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@Abagond
Loving the effects of the snow, its cold enough here to do just that. I played some Christmas songs earlier but the fam are not in the spirit enough just yet…What about everybody else – are you prepared, nearly there or not even begun getting ready for the festive season?
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My thoughts on the Tram incident: Racism is as English as Tea and Crumpets.
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^^^^^
Meant to say ‘Loving the effects of the snow, in the background of the site’
@Robert – 🙂 Do you live in the UK or is this an obvservation generally?
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@Demerera
I live in England.
Reading American blogs I’ve been struck by how similar White supremacist racism operates here and the U.S. They use very similar talking points and tactics.
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My computer is struggling to open the open thread. Posting comments is taking a long time and scrolling up and down is also very slow. I think it might be because there are many posts.
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@Robert
I agree with you about the comparisons in terms of the issues that affect BP in the US and in the UK and who knows, maybe worldwide. I am guessing you are relatively new to this blog? From what you read, do you get the sense from the commenters from the US, that there is an understanding that this affects BP all over? Or, do you feel as I sometimes do, that the situation is potentially much more overt in the US and therefore, there is a tendency to focus on more localised/regional aspects of this instead? Either way for me, there is much to learn – I am often amazed at how well Abagond can articulate the interplay between Black and White though I dont necessarily always agree with everything said.
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@ Robert
I think it is WordPress and not your computer – it is slow for me too. But in any case, this page has become too long. At the end of the year I will archive it and start a new Open Thread. Since this is a popular page it might make sense to have more than one Open Thread at a time, though I have no idea of how to split it up. I am open to suggestions.
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@ Abagond
Since the open thread is so popular, I wonder if it might not be easier for you to add a simple forum instead of creating many open threads? However, I do not know if adding a forum will be a lot more complicated and difficult than making multiple threads on your site.
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@Demerera
“I agree with you about the comparisons in terms of the issues that affect BP in the US and in the UK and who knows, maybe worldwide. I am guessing you are relatively new to this blog?”
I’ve been a lurker for a while but have only started posting recently.
“From what you read, do you get the sense from the commenters from the US, that there is an understanding that this affects BP all over? Or, do you feel as I sometimes do, that the situation is potentially much more overt in the US and therefore, there is a tendency to focus on more localised/regional aspects of this instead?”
I get the same impression. From what I’ve seen, in general the commenters from the U.S. seem to be primarily concerned with local issues which is understandable. It could very well be because it might be more overt there.
“Either way for me, there is much to learn – I am often amazed at how well Abagond can articulate the interplay between Black and White though I dont necessarily always agree with everything”
Abagond writes in a readable accessible way which I like. I’ve learned quite a lot since I’ve been reading this blog especially about White supremacy and how it works and institutionalised racism, I’ve found the posts on these topics insightful.
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@proudchocolategirl:
it’s snowing on abagond’s!
—-
I know! Cute, isn’t it?
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@ Proud
I am not sure what you mean by sexuality. Like what posts have I ever done on sexuality?
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@proudchocolategirl: While woefully lacking any relevant scientifical studies on this subject, I have some empirical data on this. Once a male experiences a female orgasm during an intimate moment, it will enforce the mating instinct in males brains and keeps the male interested. So, after that experience, a male of the said spieces will come back for more of such experiences again. And again. And again. And again, again, again, again and again and then again.
From my empirical studies I conclude this being part of some very deep biological way to influence on male behavior because once a male has experienced a female orgasm, he should be going after such experiences. Granted, some males in the said spieces have to stamina, willpower, knowledge or skills to produce a female orgasm but I suspect many of the males of the said spieces will never the less seek such an experience some times desperately.
If for some reason, by accident or other ways, they would be able to produce a female orgasm for the female of the said spieces, this will fill the males brain with a sense of achievement similar to conquering Mt Everest or reaching the Moon. This of course will keep their interest going on, which is a good thing for the said spieces biologically.
😀
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It’s snowing on every WordPress blog – that is, if the owner / administrator of said blog checked the ‘snow’ option… 😎
@ sam:
You’ve done your research! 😀 😉
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Hi all
I love a nice glass of Dry White but am frustrated by the prices and quality in the shops right now.
I would like to start making homemade wine, but only if its not too arduous and tedious a task – anyone on here make their own wine?
Any tips/recipes greatly appreciated.
Thanks
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@Bulanik
Always good to hear from you 🙂
What kind did your gradmother make – white or red? Dry/Medium/Sweet? Did you ever get to taste it or are you not a lover of wine?
I suspected that the process would be long though I will probably persevere still as I do like the thought of making my own ‘stuff’ and waiting with anticipation for the finished result.
Its always been at the back of my mind but think its come to the fore as I am reading a book at the moment where the main protaganist discovers an exercise book by someone who made wine and reproduces it using the water from a ‘special’ place which makes the end result come out with magical powers lol. I’m a simple girl me, lol. Stuff like Blackberry Blush and Sloe Seduction (as in the story) sound fantastic to me though, in the story, they are both Reds.
Would love to perfect a similar concotion in a Blanco version – hmmm, wonder what I would call them…
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@Bulanik
Home made wine is a rather absorbing and relaxing hobby. And rather intoxicating too I’ll wager – hic lol
You need space and patience for it, though, and access to good water – and plenty of it. I have the former but lack the latter i.e. patience, lol. Seriously though, I like to see the results of things that I have put time and effort into and something like this is no different. I have heavily ‘hinted’ to hubby my interest in wine making so perhaps he will indulge me.
The book i’m reading is Moonshine by Christina Jones – cant say its fantastic, more of a steady read which has got me in mind of the wine making.
You have also made me realise that ‘wine’ or the ingredients used, has many ‘other’ uses too. …
I don’t drink alcohol, only sip tiny amounts of wine, but I will cook with it.
Weird isnt it, how our taste buds develop. I rarely drank in my 20’s and early 30’s and certainly not wine although I remember vividly sipping on a Martini or Vermouth at Christmastime…
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Abagond, what do you write about when you’re not blogging?
Because of your writing style, I assume you’re into short novels.
Any chance that you post one of your works (or excerpts of it) on this blog someday?
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@Bulanik
Was just singing along to Alicia the other day – great tracks you have chosen here 🙂 . Unfortunately I cant get into the Christmas spirit just yet, not sure why but ‘today’ is a new day….
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Remember this Xmas song from my youth – do you recall this one @Bulanik?
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@bulanik
I’m liking the sound of Nneka. Must confess, I rarely add ‘new’ artists to my MP4 – not cos I dont want to but I have found that many songs of late, dont stand the test of time. I will definately look this lady up. As for Rebecca – not keen on her voice at all but, watched X Factor when she was on it and she seems like a nice girl plus love the Scouse accent.
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Abagond et al
“Wishing one and ALL a Merry Christmas/Festive Greetings”.
Enjoy yourselves, whatever you do. 🙂
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Hello all. I know some of you are aware my mom has terminal cancer. Well, today is a very special day. Not only because it’s Christmas, but because my mom’s still hanging on despite the doctors saying she had about two months or less to live. And this was in October. My mom’s fighting with everything she has and I’m so damn proud of her. I’m still keeping positive thoughts, too. All I want to say is to wish everyone a very Merry Christmas! Have a blessed New Year! 😀
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Hey Leigh
What a wonderful gift for you and your family. I sincerely wish you and yours a special Christmas. I know you will enjoy yourselves and this will be a most memorable time for you all. Wishing your mum all the best. X
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Seasons Greetings! Merry Christmas! Hoping for all the best for everyone in the New Year! My best to Leigh!
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Merrrrrrrry christmas to everyone at Abagond’s from Santa Claus’s home Finland, funland!
A finnish christmas carol by Jean Sibelius: “I search for no power, no glory”
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@Leigh204:
Hang in there. You are not alone. 🙂
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Abagond et al
May I wish you all a happy, healthy and prosperous New year.
@Leigh, I hope you have had a lovely time this festive season with your nearest and dearest.
No revelling for me this evening, though I do intend to pop to my friends house and partake in a little Salsa dancing before re-grouping with my family.
Take care all
x
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HAPPY NEW YEARS, PROUD – and everyone else!
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You guys are wonderful! Thanks everyone! Here’s to 2012! Yay! 😀
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Happy New Years dears!!!!!
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Choon Bulanik 🙂
Enjoy your travels. This may be (hopefully) one of the last time(s) in a while that I log on to as the intention is that I embark on more distance learning to support me in my ‘new’ role. Saying that though, as this site is so engaging I doubt I will be able to resist looking on here lol so I will catch up with you then. TTFN
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@ Bulanik
Excellent choice! Travel safe.
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Happy New Year all.
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@Leigh204;
You’re back! Your absence was felt. You and your family were in my thoughts over the holidays.
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@Bulanik
If you want to stay in touch in the interim, please go through Abagond,
I’ll be happy to stay in touch whilst you are away….
Will do – thanks 🙂
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@ Proud
Thanks! Chescaleigh is great.
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I was about to post that video here. I love Chesca and her video is a TRUE STORY from start to finish. I’ve watched it at least 5 times today.
I love that she didn’t apologize for being “offensive”.
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People have been calling for the resignation of black british MP Diane Abbott because she said in a twitter conversation “White people love playing “divide & rule” We should not play their game #tacticasoldascolonialism” http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-16423278
Most people on the forum I’m on think that a generalisation about race would lead to the sacking of a white MP, so the same should be applied to a black politician. I’m trying to argue that the two are not equivalent given the racism in Britain against black people and the historical context, and that as whites have disproportionate power racist comments against blacks are more damaging.
Someone has responded that I’m saying not all races are equal, and saying some races should be patronised as if they don’t know better. They say that suggesting some racism is okay, depending what race the victim is, encourages racism. They also point out hate crimes against white people.
Am I being patronising? I can’t work out how to get through to this person.
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Am I being patronising? I can’t work out how to get through to this person.
No you are not being patronizing. As for getting through to these clowns, don’t bother it is only a waste of your time and energy. You see, this buffoon already has his/her preconceived notions. They probably couldn’t give a fig as to what you have to say. How easily they forget the recent Lawrence verdict! This person is probably still pissed off about this.
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Thanks Herneith. You’re right, I should know better than try to argue with random people on the internet.
I’m wondering whether the ‘outrage’ at her comments is actually because of the Lawrence verdict. There’s been so much coverage recently that even the most oblivious white people are starting to notice how racist we are – and so when we’re offered a supposed example of black racism we leap on it with relief. If black people are racist too, we can feel better about ourselves again.
It seems to fit in with the pattern mentioned in Macon D’s post on “Stuff white people do: pounce on any example they can find of “black racism”” http://stuffwhitepeopledo.blogspot.com/2010/07/pounce-on-any-example-they-can-find-of.html
Sorry if this is all obvious to you already, I’m quite new to these ideas.
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Many of these ‘creeping’ white racists love to flip the script. They probably have an orgasm when ‘incidents’ like this pop up. “Everyone is a racist” is their rallying cry.
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Hey abagond have you seen this documentary? It was pretty eye opening for me
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@ Cece
Have you watch the documentary, Loose Change? That’s another excellent video looking at what really happened on 911 and the days preceding the so-called attack.
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@ Proud:
Yes to both.
George Lucas, the executive producer, on “Red Tails”:
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@Bulanik
I’m still ‘hanging’ here – no progress yet re the study, not sure when that will be now. Hope to catch up with you soon 🙂
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Hi Proudchocolategirl
Thanks for the link – as you can tell, at times I’m still a bit ‘green’ 😮
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Is it me or does it seem like those with privileges have an inability to listen as if it was some kind of handicap?
http://brothawolf.wordpress.com/2011/12/12/the-privilege-handicap/
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Hey Abagond, have you ever done a post on what I wish I had known before I got married? I would be interested in reading a male’s perspective on this.
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@Proud
That is a good idea. They are doing a few free showings of the film this weekend at my school since it’s TU, but I’m going to actually contribute and wait until it comes out and go see it at the theater.
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@brothawolf
Is it me or does it seem like those with privileges have an inability to listen as if it was some kind of handicap?
I think its called ‘Selective’ hearing 🙂 . It will always be the ‘black sheep’ or ‘Runts’ of White Society who are the most vehment and outspoken in their racism towards people of colour. After all, they feel so near the bottom of the pile and that they have the most to lose so they desperately try to assimilate themselves with the top end of white society who in turn, are leaving them to rot.
White People in the higher echelons of society feel the least threat to their livliehood and instead suffer from the green eyed monster but try to ‘dress up’ their racism in so called ‘civilised’ debate reminding everyone of all the remarkable achievements of the white race and how far WP have come comparitively to Black/other POC/Nations.
To listen to anything else for either group is soul destroying – believing they are ‘superior’ is the only thing they have as in practice, give ‘others’ the same access/rights/priveleges/conditions that they have, it would no longer be a foregone conclusion who the ‘victor’ would be…
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@V-4
Re: Your suggestion
Native Blood and Identity?
By that I mean, how white people will proudly proclaim their Native Inheritance but still think of themselves as white, whereas if it was a comparable amount of African Inheritance they wouldn’t think of themselves as white.
And of course society wouldn’t either.
—-
I’ve also heard white people proudly proclaim they have Native American blood. And you’re right. They still think of themselves as white. Having black blood is a different story. It’s as though having even a smidgeon of it makes one tainted or something. The “One Drop Rule” applies here. Barack Obama is a prime example. He’s not a white president or even a biracial president. He’s a black president.
I had a white woman once tell me that her great grandmother was black. She said it in a low voice and with an air of shame. I got the impression she was confiding in me. I remember thinking that she probably wouldn’t dream of telling her white friends and acquaintances.
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The artist Faith Ringgold has an interesting online project, which I’d love to see discussed or analyzed. According to the web site, The Racial Questions and Answers Project, “is a conceptual study on race and color in America…” which Ringgold undertook because she’s “particularly interested in what a person would feel, think and do if their racial identity was suddenly changed…In other words what would it be like to Wake up Black in America (if you were white) or, what would it be like to Wake up White in America (if you were a person of color)? ” It’s quite a comprehensive study. Some of the results are fascinating — particularly White women’s reaction to their new darker skin and more typically black features. I only wish Ringgold had videotaped the results, rather than just using a written response. People can still take part in it. Not sure if the answers are still being tabulated, though.
http://www.faithringgold.com/racialquestions/
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Yes, hopefully this weekend.
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“we don’t see white WW2 movies where ww are completely left out, they always play the supportive wife…”
“Every other white movie their white soldiers are paired with their white wives/lovers…”
*******************************
We should never imitate what whites do, just because THEY do it – whatever that may be. We should do always strive to do the right/correct thing – regardless of what THEY do. What whiteness, or Hollywood, does or doesn’t do ought not be the benchmark for what we, as a collective, do.
Proud, I’m in complete agreement with your point. Black women ought to be shown in this film doing what they did regarding these airmen.
I just don’t agree with bolstering that argument with what whites do. Just sayin’..
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I see now where you’re coming from.
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@ Proud
I read your post about “Red Tails”. Wow, how disappointing. But, unfortunately, not surprising. I will write more about it once I have seen the film. I will be doing a post on the Tuskegee airmen, on the film and maybe even a third one of some sort, like something the film is an example of (just like how the Chescaleigh video led to a post on microaggressions).
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Wow, this is getting worse and worse.
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No Bliff, I am afraid that you’re missing the point. The point, (which you conveniently ignored) I was making is that people of colour have been denied equal opportunities to participate in American society due to the systematic assault on their means to be economically self-sufficient.
But, before I explain myself further, I would like to put my assumptions on the table first.
1. The American School of Economics is responsible for America being the world power that she is today. This school of economics is based not (wholly) on slavery, but on protectionism, urbanisation and industrialisation, as seen in America’s Industrial Revolution.
2. Your view of black American history is discrete, not continuous. The discrete points are slavery, end of slavery, that Martin Luther King guy, LBJ screwing it up with Great Society, and nowadays (gangstas on hand , self pitiful pseudo intellectuals on the other.) This makes it seem as if, in the intervening years. blacks simply went away on a magical island till the 1960’s, then they screwed up their island, and are now here , cap in hand.
The idea that it was solely white sweat and blood that rebuilt America post slavery, or that blacks were in full control of their own fate at that time is historically untrue, as shown in the Pulitzer Prize winning book Slavery by another Name.
From the dust cover
A 90 minute PBS documentary is also available for viewing below
http://video.pbs.org/video/2176766758/#
There is also the fact that many of the opportunities given to white farmers and small business men were purposefully denied to black men . This is documented in the book “When affirmative action was White”, as summarised in the 90 minute video below.
http://forum-network.org/lecture/when-affirmative-action-was-white
You could. of course, argue, that the slave masters had found that blacks were to impulsive and unintelligent to sustain an economy or civilization – but Abagond has countered that many times on this blog, never mind that our knowledge of the human body and mind has far grown since that time. Your argument would also fail to explain the civilizations that were(and are) quite numerous across the African continent, with their numerous writing systems, bureaucracies and communications systems.
Finally, there is the creation of what Michel Foucault called the Carceral State, or what is known in sociology colloquially as the Prison-Industrial Complex, which I will not attempt to discuss here.
Bliff, I do not think that you will be convinced by what I have just posted. However, I leave it here as a counterargument to the prima facie assumptions that you hold. You also seem to believe that your beliefs are self -evident, and as such , have earned the ire and, quite justified, indignation of some of the posters (eg. Brothawolf). However, you are also rightly justified to be upset at the perception that “all whites are nefarious” or the self-pity that comes to the fore at times in the many discussions held here. Nevertheless, I hope that you consider the information that I have posted above.
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@SatanForce:
Thanks for the reply. You put a lot of effort into this.
The only thing is, you’ve gone into a whole lot of things outside the scope of the original point, which is – there are no whites today who benefitted from slavery.
Now after slavery, the blacks were stlll disadvantaged. However, this was not the topic.
My only point is that no wealth was handed down past 1865 from slavery. No white today has anything JUST from slavery. If you want to argue that whites got things off of blacks after slavery, that’s a whole ‘nother animal.
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I’m so glad I found this blog!!!! 😀 Hugs to all!
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O fiddlesticks Bliff! I had a reply for you that didnt go through owing to technical problems on my end.
I suggest you first understand that the myth of “Whiteness” affords sociopolitical and economic wealth/opportunity.
Since I’ve got to run, please use your own agency to check out literature on the subject. And don’t be shy or one-sided, choose authors from various disciplines and ethnic backgrounds. The quick and dirty way( yet incomplete): Hit up JSTOR or WORLDCAT and pull up peer-reviewed articles to find a few answers to your question.
No answer on a blog is going to be able to delve into the complex and dynamic nature of the lasting effects of slavery, especially on the topic of wealth building. I know we think this is so these days, but good old fashioned research and book reading (by various authors so you can cross-check or at least read with a critical eye/mind) will do the job. I hope your curiosity is genuine. Enjoy!
Peace and Blessings to all =)
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@the world we live in:
You said you had a reply for me. I would be interested in hearing it. I’m here to talk to blacks and get their viewpoint, not to do research.
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To Bliff:
The only thing is, you’ve gone into a whole lot of things outside the scope of the original point, which is – there are no whites today who benefitted from slavery.
I would argue that there are some individual Whites (to this day) who have benefited from Slavery but that American Whites overall have not benefited from Slavery. As you pointed out much of the wealth of the South was wiped out by the civil war. The South could not readily adapt to the new realities for several generations and remained a backwater until post WWII and in some places into the 1960s. The irony, for White Supremacists, is that White Southerners (on average) became wealthier as the civil rights movement took hold. Slavery made antebellum wealthy White Southerners decadent and substantially less industrious and lacking in human capital. (Never mind what it did to Black Americans or ever poor Whites…) Certainly there were some families that continued to hold wealth and land (which was effectively wealth..) in the South but predominantly they were part of the what we would now call the 1%.
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Found a report about these 8 year old twins whose parents emigrated from Nigeria. I thought Abagond and his readers would like a pleasant story for a change:
http://africanspotlight.com/2012/03/nigerian-8-year-old-twins-break-world-mathematics-record-video/
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/berkshire/8542694.stm
“Paula and Peter Imafidon are among hundreds of thousands of other children who are finding out which secondary school they will attend.
Peter and Paula, from Waltham Forest, east London, are two years younger than most of their counterparts.
Dubbed the “Wonder Twins”, they broke records when they passed A/AS-level mathematics papers at the age of seven.
A year later they took and passed the University of Cambridge’s Advanced Mathematics (FAM) paper, becoming the youngest students ever to pass the rigorous examinations.
Their father:
http://www.uel.ac.uk/ace/staff/chrisimafidon/
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/education/educationnews/7338171/Twins-to-become-youngest-secondary-school-pupils.html
Mr Imafidon and his wife Ann came to Britain from Nigeria more than 30 years ago and have three other high-achieving children.
Their eldest daughter, Anne-Marie, now 20, is the youngest girl ever to pass A-level computing, at 13.
She won a British Government scholarship to undertake undergraduate studies at Johns Hopkins University in Baltimore, USA.
Christiana, 17, is the youngest schoolgirl ever to study at undergraduate level in any British University at the age of 11.
Samantha, now 12, passed two GCSEs in mathematics and statistics at the age of six and mentored the twins to pass their own maths GCSE when they were six.
All the siblings took part in the Excellence in Education programme for inner city children.
Mr Imafidon attributed their achievements to their talents being nurtured – not to them being “geniuses”.
He saud: “Every child is a genius. Once you identify the talent of a child and put them in the environment that will nurture that talent then the sky is the limit. Look at Tiger Woods, or the Williams sisters – they were nurtured.”
Paula hopes to become a maths teacher while Peter’s ambition is to become Prime Minister.
Mr Imafidon added: “You can never rule anything out with them, the competition between the two of them makes them excel in anything they do.
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@Uncle Milton:
Thanks for the thoughtful reply. That’s better than what I usually get here.
The irony, for White Supremacists, is that White Southerners (on average) came wealthier as the civil rights movement took hold.
Yeah, interesting coincidence, but the movement did not create southern wealth. The South prospered from free marketprinciples, right to work laws, and a business friendly climate.
Slavery made antebellum wealthy White Southerners decadent and substantially less industrious and lacking in human capital.
Slavery helped their profit margins, but they still had to manage their properties wisely, so had to stay industrious or go bust. Because of their prosperity, they may not have had the incentive to really improve their methods, but I am not so sure of this.
By the way, did you know that the usual picture of the Southern plantation and slavery, with its mansions and dozens of slaves, is not typical? A more typical picture would be one of a modest farmer who owned one or two slaves and worked besides them in the fields along with his sons.
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Looks at Bliff. Shakes head. Goes back to reading The Spook who sat by the door. Probably will watch Milfs like it Black later.
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@SatanForce
Probably will watch Milfs like it Black later.
I’ve seen that one. Dont’ bother.
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To Bliff:
Yeah, interesting coincidence, but the movement did not create southern wealth. The South prospered from free marketprinciples, right to work laws, and a business friendly climate.
You are talking about how things are now.. but that was basically not the attitude throughout much of the South in 1940 and earlier. Southern Whites had a strong aversion to outside influences. (which included investment from Northern factory owners etc..and of course civil rights for Blacks) Mississippi had a policy for many years to not industrialize. Jim Crows most assuredly were not based upon free market principles.
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“I thought Abagond and his readers would like a pleasant story for a change:”
****************
The power of EXPECTATIONS (whether neg or pos) is tremendous.
As is the mental fortitude of Africans who are not worn out by the constant barrage of psychic oppression/messages found within Western racist cultures.
Abagond, maybe EXPECTATIONS, and the power thereof can go on your list of posts to do? That is if you haven’t already written one.
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And now. for some lolz
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1196811/Racism-debate-Russian-Nigerian-gas-companies-combine-form-Nigaz.html
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