Roy Moore (1947- ), a judge from the Deep South of the US, is running for Jeff Sessions’ old Senate seat in Alabama. He is backed by Steve Bannon. The special election is on December 12th 2017.
In 2003 Moore refused to remove the Ten Commandments from his courthouse despite a higher court ruling. Alabama wound up removing him as a judge and then the monument of the Ten Commandments.
In 2016 he was again relieved of his duties as a judge when he blocked the US Supreme Court’s decision allowing same-sex marriage.
Both times he put his religious beliefs above a higher court ruling.
Moore is against:
- rule of law,
- separation of church and state,
- abortion,
- “take a knee” protests,
- immigration (but did not know what DACA was),
- Muslims (should not be allowed to serve in Congress).
Beliefs:
- White Evangelical Protestantism,
- Birtherism,
- creationism,
- Islamophobia,
- homophobia.
Confederate sympathies: In his office is a picture of Jefferson Davis, the president of the Confederacy. There are also busts of Robert E. Lee and Stonewall Jackson, Confederate generals. No Confederate flags, though.
Opposes better education, despite Alabama’s terrible schools: In 2004 he led the fight against an amendment to the state constitution to uphold the “right to education or training at public expense” and to overturn these words:
“Separate schools shall be provided for white and colored children, and no child of either race shall be permitted to attend a school of the other race.”
He won. Those words remain in the Alabama constitution.
The Senate race: In early November 2017, Moore’s lead was only about 6 points over Doug Jones, his Democratic challenger. In 2016 Trump beat Hillary Clinton in Alabama by 28 points. Moore’s huge appeal to White Evangelical Protestants (39% of Alabama) was both his greatest strength and his greatest weakness.
Then on November 9th scandal hit.
Two tales of four girls:
Doug Jones‘ claim to fame is that he locked up Thomas Blanton in 2001 and Bobby Cherry in 2002 – two of the Klansmen who blew up the 16th Street Baptist Church in Birmingham in 1963, killing four girls.
Roy Moore is now accused of sexually molesting a 14-year-old girl in 1979 when he was in his early 30s. A crime (though the statute of limitation has run out). During that same period he dated at least three other girls ages 16 to 18. Creepy.
Moore calls it “fake news”, but the Washington Post has the four women on record and 26 others who back up their story. Leigh Corfman, the 14-year-old now grown, is a Trump supporter. (Let that sink in.)
Alabama State Auditor Jim Zeigler defends Moore:
“Take Joseph and Mary. Mary was a teenager and Joseph was an adult carpenter. They became the parents of Jesus … There’s just nothing immoral or illegal here. Maybe just a little bit unusual.”
As Scripture says:
“The young girl, Mary, said Joseph touched her over her bra and underpants, guiding her hand to his shorts. ‘I wanted it over with — I wanted out,’ she recalled. ‘Please just get this over with. Whatever this is, just get it over.'”
– Abagond, 2017.
Update (November 14th): A fifth woman, Beverly Young Nelson, a Trump supporter, has come forward. In tears she said that when she was 16 (and he was 30):
“I tried fighting him off, while yelling at him to stop, but instead of stopping he began squeezing my neck attempting to force my head onto his crotch.”
Because he was the county prosecutor she never dreamed he would do something like that. But because he was the county prosecutor, he thought he could get away with it:
“If you tell anyone about this, no one will believe you.”
Not long before that he signed her yearbook – which she still has. He dated his signature: December 22nd 1977.
More: The Daily Beast.
By 1981 he had been banned from the mall in his own hometown of Gadsden because he kept hitting on teenage girls there. That is where he met two of his known victims.
Update (November 16th): Three more women have come forward. One was pulled out of her trigonometry class when she was in high school to answer a telephone call. She thought it was her father. It was Roy Moore asking for a date.
Even Sean Hannity of Fox News is turning against him! Geraldo Rivera had patiently explained to him several days ago that Moore is a liar, but he did not see the light till Reddi-wip and others started pulling their ads.
Update (December 4th): According to a new CBS News poll, Moore is ahead by six points: “71 percent of Alabama Republicans say the allegations against Roy Moore are false, and those who believe this also overwhelmingly believe Democrats and the media are behind those allegations.”
Update (December 4th): Trump now fully endorses Moore:
“Democrats refusal to give even one vote for massive Tax Cuts is why we need Republican Roy Moore to win in Alabama. We need his vote on stopping crime, illegal immigration, Border Wall, Military, Pro Life, V.A., Judges 2nd Amendment and more. No to Jones, a Pelosi/Schumer Puppet!”
More: The New Yorker.
Update (December 9th): Roy Moore, when asked about when America was great, said this, in 2017:
“I think it was great at the time when families were united — even though we had slavery. They cared for one another. People were strong in the families. Our families were strong. Our country had a direction.”
Note that during slavery families were regularly torn apart. It was one of the worst features of slavery for those who lived through it.
Update (December 13th): Roy Moore loses to Doug Jones! Although Moore got 81% of the White Evangelical vote, he was defeated by a heavy Black turnout. Jones got 49.9% of the vote, Moore 48.4% with 1.7% write-ins.
See also:
- Steve Bannon
- Jeff Sessions
- Donald Trump
- Blessed Virgin Mary
- beliefs
- 16th Street Baptist Church bombing
- Confederate flag
- take a knee
- fake news
- DACA
- segregation academies
549
Roy Moore is cut from the same nasty, stinking, cloth as 45. And it doesn’t surprise me that he has support especially from the trumpanzees. With all the exposure of sexual predators and harassment and just overall perversion, Even the President of the United States should be on that list along with the rest of the reprehensible deplorables.
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Roy Moore in that photo next to the Ten Commandment monument, the most despicable cretins professing to be Christians. This reminds me of a photograph of KKK in a church with a banner that reads Jesus Saves.
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I made a mistake in my second post about the KKK and Jesus Saves banner. They are not in church as i googled but it’s 1920’s Klan meeting in Portland, Oregon. The evil ideology of white supremacy is the anthesis of Christianity.
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@Mary Burrell, first calm down…heated head does not work properly
This guy need to be jailed, indeed he must.
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@Mr. Satan: Eat a bag of d….ks.
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Need to mention his famous quote
Anyhow, his hometown is only a short 40 mins. drive from my mother’s hometown, his father also worked in my mother’s hometown for a time. I do remember visiting his hometown in the 60s and 70s, and I have a first cousin living in that town now today.
I remember attending Southern Baptist churches there and the people there believed that the Bible justified, if not required black slavery, and my parents were condemned to hell for getting married and I was a symbol of the destruction of their society as they knew it.
That part of the country has its own brand of logic, and people like Roy Moore are popular because they embody and promulgate that logic. It may baffle everyone else, but it makes perfect sense to them.
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“Roy Moore is now accused of sexually molesting a 14-year-old girl in 1979 when he was in his early 30s. A crime (though the statute of limitation has run out). During that same period he dated at least three other girls ages 16 to 18. Creepy.”
Let’s not get too sanctimonious, men have lusted after young women since forever. He didn’t force himself on her, granted it was statutory rape based on the laws of the state they resided in. Dotard Don was 24 when his current wife was born. You people write as if you have total control over your libidos. I don’t buy it.
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@ gro jo
“Let’s not get too sanctimonious, men have lusted after young women since forever. He didn’t force himself on her, granted it was statutory rape based on the laws of the state they resided in. … You people write as if you have total control over your libidos. I don’t buy it.”
Hah!
You would be singing a different tune if the teen girls involved were your daughters, sisters or cousins. Then you would be in hot-headed kill mode like the arch-patriarchs who defend Roy Moore.
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The bible has something for everyone.
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Alabama state representative, Ed Henry (Republican) also says “I don’t buy it”.
According to the Cullman Times, Rep. Henry feels the women should be prosecuted, not Moore. Henry said he believes legal action should be considered against Moore’s accusers, finding their story unbelievable. Henry is quoted saying:
http://www.cullmantimes.com/news/ed-henry-on-moore-accusations-i-m-not-buying-it/article_ddb8650a-c5cd-11e7-be2c-1f9ffb09ccc5.html
Women who don’t report criminal acts against them obviously don’t find it easy to make accusations.
Criminal rapists, abusers and molesters flourish when other men default to “I don’t buy it”.
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Alabama State Auditor Jim Zeigler defends Moore:
“Take Joseph and Mary. Mary was a teenager and Joseph was an adult carpenter. They became the parents of Jesus … There’s just nothing immoral or illegal here. Maybe just a little bit unusual.”
False equivalency! It was a cultural norm 2000 years ago for young girls and boys to be sexually active while still in their early teens during biblical time. Mr. Moore allegedly made a move on this young girl in 1979. Therefore, he’s about two-thousand years late to be not referred to as a potential pervert by today’s social standards.
I liked the idea of Mr. Moore placing the Ten Commandments at the courthouse where he worked. However, it is obvious that he chose the Lord, but the Lord didn’t choose him (John 15:16)!
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“You would be singing a different tune if the teen girls involved were your daughters, sisters or cousins. Then you would be in hot-headed kill mode like the arch-patriarchs who defend Roy Moore.”
My dear, I didn’t know that you could read minds as well as being smart and well informed! I read the encounter between the judge and the 14 year old girl, I failed to notice where she claimed to have been forced to do anything against her will.
Which part of my comment are you challenging? Statutory rape laws exist because older guys go after young girls and young girl are willing to oblige them. The reaction of arch-patriarchs is besides the point. In fact, arch-patriarchs are probably the biggest offenders of these laws.
When I was 14 I would have welcomed the attention of a zoftig lady in her thirties. I keep reading about all these female teachers being sent to jail for having sex with their underage male students. My only thought on this is where the hell were they when I needed such ministrations? I would have saved a fortune on porn.
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@gro jo
“Statutory rape laws exist because older guys go after young girls and young girl[s] are willing to oblige them.”
Nasty older males go after inexperienced young females precisely because they don’t know how to set or enforce limits and boundaries. If the young females are “obliging”, it is because they don’t know any better.
If the girl Roy Moore preyed upon knew better, I doubt she would have recalled her encounter this way:
Moore knew his advances were inappropriate and barely consensual. She describes Moore’s behavior on their first and second “dates”:
Days later, she says, he picked her up around the corner from her house in Gadsden, drove her about 30 minutes to his home in the woods, told her how pretty she was and kissed her.
On a second visit, she says, he took off her shirt and pants and removed his clothes. He touched her over her bra and underpants, she says, and guided her hand to touch him over his underwear.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/investigations/woman-says-roy-moore-initiated-sexual-encounter-when-she-was-14-he-was-32/2017/11/09/1f495878-c293-11e7-afe9-4f60b5a6c4a0_story.html
Laws governing sexual contact between adults and children are called “statutory rape” for a reason.
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I thought Trump wanted Luther Strange so it makes to me sense that the accuser is a Trump supporter.
I do think that it’s more than just being a pedifile as he was in a position of power as a DA.
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@ Afrofem
“If the young females are ‘obliging’, it is because they don’t know any better.”
And sometimes what men read as “obliging” is actually “petrified.”
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“She describes Moore’s behavior on their first and second “dates””. Two dates connotes consent in my book. “And sometimes what men read as “obliging” is actually “petrified.”” Two dates is not ‘petrified’. Slut exists because some girls, women meet the definition of that word. Not all men are rapists and not all girls are little angels. Sorry.
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What god do they worship in the American South? White Supremacy?
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“Two dates connotes consent in my book.”
Whenever I’ve agreed to a second date, in my book that meant I agreed to go on a date, period. It did not mean that I had given implicit consent for any sexual activity.
Men sometimes think women are sluts because men don’t communicate clearly and make erroneous unstated assumptions.
Better to ask explicitly and make sure you’re both on the same page instead of thinking you can read her mind.
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From the WaPo link in Afrofem’s post:
This sounds like a frightened 14-year-old, not an experienced slut.
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“This sounds like a frightened 14-year-old, not an experienced slut.”
This sounds like a frightened 14-year-old, inexperienced slut, not yet ready to move to the next phase that her actions imply.
“Whenever I’ve agreed to a second date, in my book that meant I agreed to go on a date, period. It did not mean that I had given implicit consent for any sexual activity.”
True, but if the stars aligned just right, you could have consented to sexual activity. The job of your beau was to make sure they did. Roy Moore did nothing more than try to align said stars but Ms. Corfman wasn’t ready to go that far. To his credit, he did not force himself on her. The attempt to vilify him seems unjust, based on what we know. He isn’t the only one with a thing for young women. Chuck Berry even sang about such desires and made a mint. The porn and advertising industries, mine such libidinous energies to the tune of billions of dollars. It’s not all about predatory males, females have been willing participants for eons, regardless of feminist rhetoric to the contrary.
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Sometimes, young people do ‘consent’ verbally to intimate relations because they want to please the person they are with – not because they are wanton or ready for it!
That this child went for a second date says nothing more than the fact that she was naïve – there is an element of trust that many minors put in to adults that they will not flout the law – I know that I certainly expected that from the adults I was around as a teenager. Those that didn’t you were aware of and you were no doubt warned to avoid from your parents or guardians but, therein lies an assumption that all ‘bad’ things are known and visible but in this case, this illegal act was hidden.
An adult who understands the physical and emotional side of intimate relations should be exercising restraint and not abusing this ever.
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it’s called statutory rape, it’s a felony, and everyone in jail has children, have a nice day
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“v8driver
it’s called statutory rape, it’s a felony, and everyone in jail has children, have a nice day”
Tell me something I don’t already know: “@gro jo
“Statutory rape laws exist because older guys go after young girls and young girl[s] are willing to oblige them.””
“Omnipresent
Sometimes, young people do ‘consent’ verbally to intimate relations because they want to please the person they are with – not because they are wanton or ready for it!”
Again, tell me something I don’t already know: “This sounds like a frightened 14-year-old, inexperienced slut, not yet ready to move to the next phase that her actions imply.
“Whenever I’ve agreed to a second date, in my book that meant I agreed to go on a date, period. It did not mean that I had given implicit consent for any sexual activity.”
True, but if the stars aligned just right, you could have consented to sexual activity. The job of your beau was to make sure they did. Roy Moore did nothing more than try to align said stars but Ms. Corfman wasn’t ready to go that far. To his credit, he did not force himself on her.”
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“This sounds like a frightened 14-year-old, inexperienced slut, not yet ready to move to the next phase that her actions imply.”
This statement assumes that the inexperienced 14-year-old knew her actions implied a move to a certain phase.
I don’t see how anyone can assume that second-date implication was true in her circle. She was a young teen living in a small town steeped in conservative Christian culture. It’s very unlikely that her peers had a rule that a second date connotated implied consent to sexual intercourse, regardless of whether that was the case among older people.
It certainly wasn’t the case in my high school in a similar small town at that time.
Roy Moore knew he was doing something wrong, or he would have not lied to the girl’s mother in the courthouse and not encouraged the girl to keep their meetings secret. He would have taken her on a real date in public, openly and honestly, if he had thought what he was doing was ok.
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“I don’t see how anyone can assume that second-date implication was true in her circle. She was a young teen living in a small town steeped in conservative Christian culture. It’s very unlikely that her peers had a rule that a second date connotated implied consent to sexual intercourse, regardless of whether that was the case among older people.”
Lady, you. are. funny. The setting you describe marks her as a slut for accepting a date with him in the first place. Thanks for buttressing my argument with culturally relevant data . Girls from conservative small towns don’t go out with older men unless they are looking to ‘sin’, period.
I note that you have nothing to say about “the stars aligning just right” for sex, did I hit the bull’s-eye? We’re adults, let’s not talk nonsense about “Better to ask explicitly and make sure you’re both on the same page instead of thinking you can read her mind.”
We both know that’s not how the thing is done. Old Roy’s mistake was not playing the redneck version of Barry White to get her in the mood.
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@ gro jo
You are saying “slut, slut” as a means of deflecting from the criminal behavior of Roy Moore. Moore is a classic pedophile with a fixation on pubescent girls.
Her response as an underage child was not equivalent to Moore’s actions of:
🐺 skulking (“parked around the corner from her house…”)
🦊 deceiving (“sure, I will look after your daughter” assurances to her mother)
🐀 utter hypocrisy (ten-commandments-in-the-courthouse theater)
Moore was simply grooming his mark for eventual rape. He was and is a criminal of the lowest kind. No amount of deflection will mask what he did to her.
I understand a lot of people love the spectacle of Moore hoisting a cross and waving a flag. They are willing to toss anyone under the bus who interferes with their delusion of Moore as a Christian leader.
Then there are those people who believe that fourteen year old girls are perpetrators for simply existing to “tempt” unrestrained criminals like Moore——-unless those fourteen year olds are their own sisters, daughters or cousins.
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“@ gro jo
You are saying “slut, slut” as a means of deflecting from the criminal behavior of Roy Moore.”
Nonsense. I’m aware that what he did was criminal, and I’m aware that teenage girls have desires that aren’t so ‘nice’, that’s the reason society steps in and polices such desires on her as well as her beau’s part by making their relationship a violation of the law. Laws repress what people want that’s deemed threatening to the good order of society. Regardless, such behaviors continue in defiance of the law. That’s the way things are. I deflect nothing, I state things as they actually are. Unlike you and others, I don’t go for demonization. I dare you to point out a single instance where he forced her to do anything against her will.
“🐺 skulking (“parked around the corner from her house…”)
🦊 deceiving (“sure, I will look after your daughter” assurances to her mother)
🐀 utter hypocrisy (ten-commandments-in-the-courthouse theater)”
True, I dare say that we all engaged in hypocrisy, deceit and maybe a little skulking. Guess what, we’re all animals.
“I understand a lot of people love the spectacle of Moore hoisting a cross and waving a flag. They are willing to toss anyone under the bus who interferes with their delusion of Moore as a Christian leader.”
Nope, not me.
“Then there are those people who believe that fourteen year old girls are perpetrators for simply existing to “tempt” unrestrained criminals like Moore——-unless those fourteen year olds are their own sisters, daughters or cousins.”
Not me. I believe that some fourteen year old girls are perfectly willing to take the bait a guy like Roy is all too willing to provide. That’s the reason for statutory rape laws. No amount of moral grandstanding will make that reality go away.
He’s a predator and she’s a slut, end of story.
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14 is still a child, please.
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when i was 14 and with my 14 yr old girlfriend it could get heated but it wasnt like that, described above, that’s mainupluation of an unformed mind
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“Lady, you. are. funny. The setting you describe marks her as a slut for accepting a date with him in the first place. Thanks for buttressing my argument with culturally relevant data . Girls from conservative small towns don’t go out with older men unless they are looking to ‘sin’, period.”
Not at all true. Girls from conservative small towns often assume that an older man, especially one who stresses Christian morals in public as Ray Moore did, will treat her with courtesy and respect. They are often naive and sheltered, accustomed to being protected by the adults in their hometown rather than viewing every adult as a potential predator.
“I note that you have nothing to say about “the stars aligning just right” for sex, did I hit the bull’s-eye?”
No. Not only did you not hit the bull’s-eye, you are very far from the mark. But I learned a long time ago not to discuss my personal life with you.
I do think it’s interesting that you believe on a second date it’s the man’s “job” to try to get in the woman’s pants rather than seeing it as an opportunity to get to know more about a potential partner’s interests, beliefs, and personality.
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@ Afrofem
Don’t forget that she says Ray Moore also gave her alcohol, which was both illegal in itself and another maneuver to groom her for illegal sexual activity.
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This Roy Moore thing is hitting really close to home for me. I have a civil case at the Utah State Supreme Court against a chief justice federal judge who raped me for weeks while I was a 16 year old witness/victim of a racist serial who killed 22 people in 12 states leaving a handful of survivors. I still wear the shrapnel and psychological scars from that horrifying night. But its nothing compared to the weeks of daily child sex abuse and threats of what would happen if I told and he was released on a mistrial.
In 2014 I brought the judges RECORDED ADMISSION to the State Attorney General only to be abandoned, betrayed. They kept me from their victims rights advocate while they used FRAUD Investigators, not their child sex abuse investigators, to lead their two week investigation, WITHOUT EVER INTERVIEWING HIM.
They sat on it for a year and a half and gave all the transcribed information to their predator judicial brother. They behaved like his defense attorney throughout the last 3 years. I don’t think the Utah Attorney General’s Office and Sean Reyes, Utah’s Attorney General ever thought I would fight this hard for justice, as they did everything to prevent it for their good old boy buddy.
Don’t think for one moment that there was ever a safe place for victims of predators with this kind of power.
They protect their own and don’t think twice about the futures of their victims or future victims. The public has a right to know how their elected officials in position of authority treat victims of predators like #RoyMoorePedophiles. NEWSFLASH WORLD: THERE IS NO SAFE PLACE FOR US TO GO FOR HELP. No wonder so many victims choose to bury any hope of justice along with any hope for a healthy outcome for themselves. #MeAt14
https://rantt.com/how-utahs-ag-office-failed-a-rape-survivor-twice-8d2b8c81aacf
https://www.thedailybeast.com/serial-killers-survivor-prosecutor-raped-me-during-the-trial
BTW, thank you for writing your blog. You give me hope for the world.
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“No. Not only did you not hit the bull’s-eye, you are very far from the mark. But I learned a long time ago not to discuss my personal life with you.”
Rest assured that I have zero interest in your personal life except when you bring it up to score points in an argument.
Moving right along, in your small town, what would the good burghers think of a girl who agrees to an assignation with a man twice her age, be honest?
“I do think it’s interesting that you believe on a second date it’s the man’s “job” to try to get in the woman’s pants rather than seeing it as an opportunity to get to know more about a potential partner’s interests, beliefs, and personality.”
So, I’m a dirty old man. You people are ‘too good’ or most likely, hypocritical for me.
“v8driver
14 is still a child, please.
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on Monday November 13th 2017 at 19:10:49
v8driver
when i was 14 and with my 14 yr old girlfriend it could get heated but it wasnt like that, described above, that’s mainupluation of an unformed mind”
Sorry to disillusion you, but some people are not like you and your girl.
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@ grojo
“Moving right along, in your small town, what would the good burghers think of a girl who agrees to an assignation with a man twice her age, be honest?”
First of all, she didn’t agree to an assignation. She thought they were going to go out to eat.
I don’t have to guess. I know what happened to the male teacher who was fired my sophomore year of high school and later served time. I know what people in town thought about him. I know what people thought about the girls in question. Hell, I know what their parents thought because I heard them discuss it with my folks. He was seen as an unprincipled lech that used his position of authority to prey on young girls unaware of his true intentions.
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Using intoxicants for something like this is like special circumstances or something in a lot of states
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Someone I know was born from such a union in the late 60’s. She had an awful relationship with her parents and a trusted ‘friend’ of the family (a grown man who had kids from a previous marriage) offered to take her in. She too was 14. By the age of 15 she was pregnant with his child. Her parents cut her off for years, they were disgusted with her so, she stayed with him until she was able to get independence when the child was still an infant. She had grown up in a very strict, disciplined, Christian home and had believed that when he offered to help, being her parents friend and a father himself that she was safe. She had no understanding of sex or birth control. When he started to expect more she didn’t feel that she was in a position to do anything but comply after all, she had nowhere else to go and he was helping her……
Bizarrely this man was never held to account by her parents. She had the label of single parent mother (a real stigma in the 60s and 70s, certainly in the UK) and that stayed with her for the duration of her childs upbringing.
He died recently and it has since come to light she was not the only minor he had inappropriate relationships with over the years…
So as I said before, sometimes young people do ‘consent’ verbally to intimate relations because they want to please the person they are with – not because they are wanton or ready for it! Everything in this scenario indicates that this child was not promiscuous or aware of how her actions were being deliberately and wantonly misconstrued.
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If there’s one thing I’ve learned from listening and reading from conservatives is that any news that exposes their general moral hypocrisy or caught doing something wrong, especially if and when straight white males are involved, they call it fake news.
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@ gro jo
“He’s a predator and she’s a slut, end of story.”
More like he is a criminal and she was his victim. Apparently one of many.
Yet another woman stepped forward to tell how Moore attempted to rape her when she was sixteen years old. Beverly Young Nelson is the fifth woman to accuse Moore of sexual misconduct. In Nelson’s case, he went beyond his pattern of inappropriate contact to full on rape. According to Nelson, “Moore trapped her in his car 40 years ago, choked her, and tried to take off her clothes before she fought him off.”
As to the women, you have so readily labeled, “slut”, Nelson had this to say:
https://www.thedailybeast.com/woman-says-roy-moore-tried-to-rape-her-at-16-i-was-begging-him-to-stop
Will Nelson be the tipping point to stopping that criminal from winning a seat in the US Senate? The odds are still in his favor. He is White, Male, Christian, educated and well connected. He has been pushing less powerful people around for decades. Yet, the article provides a glimmer of hope:
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https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.theatlantic.com/amp/article/545768/
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Your knack for misstating my position is getting annoying.
“As to the women, you have so readily labeled, “slut”, Nelson had this to say:
I said nothing about Nelson, my comments addressed Ms. Corfman’s behavior, no one else. A girl who went on two dates with a guy who kissed her on the first date tells me she was there for fun. Solitaire’s casuistries notwithstanding, her dates were assignations in my book, especially the second one. A 14 year old girl sneaking around town with some dude twice her age is no angel. I’m tired of the level of hypocrisy displayed in this debate. Let me reiterate my position: 1) Statutory rape laws exist to police such behaviors. 2) Both parties are at fault in this supply, demand situation, since the demand side is the adult, he bears a greater responsibility, but the supply side’s responsibility is not zero. By the age of five every normal kid knows what’s frowned at in their community. 3) As this story shows, the majority of these illicit relationships fly under the radar. 4) People are not angels, they will transgress.
That’s my final word on this story unless somebody comes up with better arguments than the sanctimonious stuff I’ve been reading.
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If you’re a 30-something or even a 20-something year old man entertaining any sort of romantic relationship with a 14-year-old, then it’s time to seriously reevaluate your life decisions, especially the ones that brought you to that point in your life.
@ gro jo
I see where you tried to clarify your positions, but it still sounds too close to victim-blaming for many people’s tastes.
The idea of some young teenaged strumpet seducing a much-older man is older than the hills themselves, plus it’s a holdover from eras where 1)said older man was a surefire form of financial security and stability for a woman and 2)the age of marriage and consent were much lower (a point you’ve probably mentioned in some way or another earlier). But I gotta wonder how much of that was just stories of horny old men using their wealth and age to cajole and coerce young women into bedding them – except those stories were later turned around to make the young girl the perpetrator and the older man an unwitting victim of feminine wiles (because women are just cunning and sneaky like that).
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As for Roy Moore, there’s a 50/50 chance that he’ll win by the thinnest of margins thanks to the Trumpenproletariat and other unreconstructed sumbiches dotting the Great State of Alabama putting party loyalty over all. Considering how most think this is all just some sort of false flag scam/character assassination stunt being pulled by liberals, I’m not surprised they think this is all made up and/or the women were whores who should have kept their legs shut and not try to bring a “god-fearing” man down.
@ Omnipresent
This doesn’t surprise me. Most people would rather blame the victim than blame the perpetrator (unless said perp is already a member of a social/racial/religious outgroup, then it’s okay to blame the outsider).
Her parents displayed a high degree of moral cowardice and parental failure. I gotta wonder if there’s even a relationship to speak of between them, their daughter and grandchild.
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@ Mack Lyons
“…those stories were later turned around to make the young girl the perpetrator and the older man an unwitting victim of feminine wiles (because women are just cunning and sneaky like that).”
Hmm. The possible genesis of the Lolita Archetype.
No doubt popular among older males who want sex with barely pubescent females and no responsibility afterward. A variation of “the Devil made me do it” defense.
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I believe that it is quite normal for a pedophilic, selfish, narcissistic, grown man to first groom and eventually molest a child because it is obvious that he sees the child as an inanimate, disposable object. Better yet, these types of behaviours are attributable to ether a damn Sociopath or a Psychopath! (take your pick)
Usually, a child molester does not see the victim as someone who can feel or emit emotions.
• A disregard for laws and social mores
• A disregard for the rights of others
• A failure to feel remorse or guilt
• A tendency to display violent behavior
https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/wicked-deeds/201401/how-tell-sociopath-psychopath
Personally, I view men who prey on prepubescent boys or girls or those who unabashedly support or attempt to justify other men that do so as having the personality of a cat. Usually, when they see a mouse, they wait for the opportune time and immediately pounce due to being incapable of controlling their internal impulses.
So it is for SOME men, there libido rages out of control at the sight of a little girl.
I surmise that only within the confines of a dilapidated mind could a grown ass man consider a child as an object of sexual gratification. (smh, seek professional help NOW!)
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“By the age of five every normal kid knows what’s frowned at in their community.”
How many people here even knew what sex was at the age of five? How many understood the intricacies of dating at five?
When I was five, I thought I could marry the trolley car on “Mr. Rogers’ Neighborhood” when I grew up.
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Also Underdog. It was a toss-up which one I had a bigger crush on.
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@ gro jo
“since the demand side is the adult, he bears a greater responsibility, but the supply side’s responsibility is not zero. By the age of five every normal kid knows what’s frowned at in their community.”
If a 5-year-old “supply-side” is sexually molested by an adult, what is the child’s share of responsibility? (considering that, according to you, the 5-year-old should already know the community frowns on adults and little kids being sexually involved)
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Update (November 14th): A fifth woman, Beverly Young Nelson, a Trump supporter, has come forward. In tears she said that when she was 16 (and he was 30):
Because he was the county prosecutor she never dreamed he would do something like that. But because he was the county prosecutor, he thought he could get away with it:
Not long before that he signed her yearbook – which she still has. He dated his signature: December 22nd 1977.
More: The Daily Beast.
By 1981 he had been banned from the mall in his own hometown of Gadsden because he kept hitting on teenage girls there. That is where he met two of his known victims.
More: The New Yorker.
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He hits on teenage girls BECAUSE they have terrible judgement, especially when up against a male authority figure, who they have been taught to trust. It has nothing to do with their being sluts or something. That is a self-serving fiction.
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@ Terry Mitchell
Thank you for your comment and, most of all, your courage.
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If Roy Moore is still a thing a week from now, that will be sad. This one should be a no-brainer. It was for the Gadsden mall.
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Mack Lyons said
I see where you tried to clarify your positions, but it still sounds too close to victim-blaming for many people’s tastes
Agreed.
Abagond said
He hits on teenage girls BECAUSE they have terrible judgement, especially when up against a male authority figure, who they have been taught to trust. It has nothing to do with their being sluts or something. That is a self-serving fiction.
I think naïveté and judgement is right. You know (or hopefully) have been brought up to know right from wrong. You know there are ‘bad’ people out there but they are shrouded in mystery. They are the nameless, faceless people who commit crimes and atrocities and these are the people that you look out for – someone obvious, a stranger, someone who acts ‘weird’ etc. Not a prominent or important person in the community, not a person known and trusted/liked by your family.
Surely for most people the decisions that you made as a teenager would still be not still be the same judgements you would make today as an adult? It is no doubt that emotional inexperience and immaturity of minors that contributes to the law defining when acts are seen as legal and therefore consensual.
Mack Lyons said
Her parents displayed a high degree of moral cowardice and parental failure.
Yes, its true.
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https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DOhMLZ0VAAApx1c?format=jpg
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I wonder if adding a dot before jpg works?
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Guess not.
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“He hits on teenage girls BECAUSE they have terrible judgement, especially when up against a male authority figure, who they have been taught to trust. It has nothing to do with their being sluts or something. That is a self-serving fiction.”
Well, if our genial host says it’s so it must be! How many of the girls he hit on got into his car twice? If the mall banned him, it tells me that some of the girls who weren’t “sluts or something” complained to the mall’s management instead of taking him up on his offer. I’ll hazard the guess that these girls learned that some old dude hitting on them wasn’t right by the age of five, maybe a little later for the slow ones with a thing for the trolley car on “Mr. Rogers’ Neighborhood” and Underdog!
“If a 5-year-old “supply-side” is sexually molested by an adult, what is the child’s share of responsibility? (considering that, according to you, the 5-year-old should already know the community frowns on adults and little kids being sexually involved)”.
Assuming 100% responsibility at 18 and cutting it in half for every year below that age, I get about 7.62 ten thousandth of a percent.
“Will Nelson be the tipping point to stopping that criminal from winning a seat in the US Senate? The odds are still in his favor. He is White, Male, Christian, educated and well connected. He has been pushing less powerful people around for decades. Yet, the article provides a glimmer of hope:
My, my, I’m disappointed in you Afrofem, I thought you were more cynical about the US political system! In light of the fact that one of the most venerable members of the Senate was Strom Thurmond, a notorious rake and horndog, that LBJ, no slouch in that department himself, wouldn’t let near his daughters, graced that body for 48 years, it would be hypocrisy of a very high order to exclude Moore because he fell below the standard of that exalted body.
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memba this guy lol
http://www.thesmokinggun.com/documents/crime/larry-craig-arrest-anniversary-109724
maybe it’s the bohemian grove that warps them and they never come back to earth, something ain’t right
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One reason victims find it difficult to come forward is that there is always someone who will invest a lot of time and energy trying to prove the victims were sluts who should have known better and were just asking for it.
“these girls learned that some old dude hitting on them wasn’t right by the age of five, maybe a little later for the slow ones”
Uh huh. And on the flip side, there are girls who by the age of five have already learned to accept ongoing molestation. As part of the grooming process, their abusers often characterize sexual contact between children and adults as normal. These girls don’t understand your vaunted community standards when they hit their early teens because for years they’ve gotten the opposite message.
Seriously, Gro Jo, do you remember being five? Had you already figured out Santa Claus wasn’t real? Had you already learned that if she says yes to a second date, that meant you were going to get lucky? Did you have such a firm grasp of right, wrong, and community standards that you never once earned yourself a scolding or punishment after the age of five?
Go observe a kindergarten class for a few hours and I guarantee you will see a lot of five-year-olds who still have trouble understanding basic classroom rules.
Speaking of “the slow ones,” I was reading some Twitter conversations last night on the hashtag #MeAt14 and was struck by a number of women admitting that when they were fourteen they still secretly played with Barbies.
It is a weird time in life, where many teens still have one foot in childhood.
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@ Afrofem
Let’s see if this works:
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Yesss!!
I took out ?format= and then added a dot before jpg
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“Seriously, Gro Jo, do you remember being five? Had you already figured out Santa Claus wasn’t real? Had you already learned that if she says yes to a second date, that meant you were going to get lucky? Did you have such a firm grasp of right, wrong, and community standards that you never once earned yourself a scolding or punishment after the age of five?”
Yes. No, because I liked the toys. This is nonsense, five year olds have no interest in things like that. Obviously not, I got punished lots of times, but I did have a firm grasp of who mattered and why.
By that age I knew that everybody wasn’t nice. It must have been all those European fairy tales about big bad wolves, evil stepmothers and witches that did it. You are desperately trying to justify the actions of Ms. Corfman for reasons that only you can tell.
Thanks to Abagond’s claim that Roy Moore was banned from the mall for behavior unbecoming of an adult, I can prove that some girls were able to tell that he was a creep who needed to be curbed.
So what if some girls played with Barbies? I subscribe to the notion that the mental map of most people is a mosaic of advanced and childish thinking. You could be 100 and still play with barbies or master advanced calculus or philosophy at six!
You are hellbent on distorting what I’m trying to say because it doesn’t adhere to the neat victim/predator story people on this blog are addicted to. According to you and the rest, Ms. Corfman can only be a little angel or a wanton whore.
I see her, at that age, as a girl who’s curious to explore her sexuality, going about it in the confused way that somebody, who doesn’t know what she’s doing or want, does.
I suspect that the reason so many girls are coming out to denounce him is because he sucked at seduction.
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Actually we don’t know who complained to the mall to get him banned. It may have been parents. It may have been store owners. Maybe mall security noticed his creepy illegal behavior on their own and got tired of dealing with him.
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“According to you and the rest, Ms. Corfman can only be a little angel or a wanton whore.”
You’re the one who’s been calling her a slut.
She wasn’t a little angel. She made a bad mistake. That mistake does not necessarily mean she understood what you think she understood about the implications of her actions.
That mistake doesn’t mean she was a wanton whore. It doesn’t necessarily mean she wanted to explore her sexuality, either. Based on her account, she seems to have been okay with the kissing but not okay with anything else. She says she’d already kissed someone before Roy Moore, so the part she was okay with wasn’t anything new and therefore didn’t equate to exploration.
We now know Roy Moore violently assaulted another teen girl, but still you’d rather focus on the poor judgment of a 14-year-old.
A grown-ass adult should be able to control both their hands and their libido.
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Omg, how desperate are you to ‘win’ this argument? “Actually we don’t know who complained to the mall to get him banned.” Right, the DA would be banned from a public place without any proof, just on the say so of some mall cop. Keep the comedy coming.
“That mistake doesn’t mean she was a wanton whore. It doesn’t necessarily mean she wanted to explore her sexuality, either. Based on her account, she seems to have been okay with the kissing but not okay with anything else. She says she’d already kissed someone before Roy Moore, so the part she was okay with wasn’t anything new and therefore didn’t equate to exploration.”
My darling, I love you, at least, I love your absurd sophistries. I haven’t laughed this hard for sometime.
She and Moore kissed on the first date. We agree that she wasn’t a wanton whore, just a confused kid looking to explore her sexuality with the wrong kid of dude, in my book. In yours she was an innocent 14 year old, right?
Given that Moore was no Adonis, the girl got cold feet and backed out. The absence of the redneck Barry White, whoever he may be, playing in the background didn’t help his cause either.
“We now know Roy Moore violently assaulted another teen girl, but still you’d rather focus on the poor judgment of a 14-year-old.”
That’s what people like him do. The interesting question is why is all this coming out now that it doesn’t matter? Statute of limitations, you know?
“A grown-ass adult should be able to control both their hands and their libido.”
Right, how?
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“kid” above should be “kind”
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SMH. This thread has me wanting to gargle with Purel.
1:44
(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BZqdeeKVoBc)
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@ gro jo
I’m just gonna put this out there and say I’ve noticed where you’re coming from. It’s the same place where people give young girls more perceived maturity and agency than they actually have. Black folks are notorious for doing just that and it lets a lot of the brothas off the hook when they get caught with a “fast” young girl and they need someone other than themselves to blame.
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@ abagond
It’s amazing how local stories like these stay local and stay buried until a major scandal digs them up. Up until then, you would have had to snoop around and ask the locals – if they were willing to talk about it at all.
I’m sure there are plenty of stories to tell about the rest of Alabama’s GOP roster.
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Mack Lyons (@DDSSBlog), I’m just gonna put it out there and say I’ve noticed where you’re coming from. It’s the same place where people give young girls zero perceived maturity and agency than they actually have.
The problem with your fantasy is that a lot more of these relationships take place than those that come to light. Roy Moore has been at it for forty years and only now is his action coming back to bite him, as you clearly realize in the following statement: “It’s amazing how local stories like these stay local and stay buried until a major scandal digs them up.” Nothing amazing about it. If you’d get off your moral high horse you’d be forced to admit that’s the way of the world. Your attempt to ascribe a motive to me says more about you than me.
“SMH. This thread has me wanting to gargle with Purel.”
Is it a cure for weak arguments based on unclear thinking?
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@ Solitaire
“I took out ?format= and then added a dot before jpg”
Good to know for the future. Thanks.
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@ gro jo
“I see her, at that age, as a girl who’s curious to explore her sexuality, going about it in the confused way that somebody, who doesn’t know what she’s doing or want, does.
I suspect that the reason so many girls are coming out to denounce him is because he sucked at seduction.”
That is the crucial difference between your arguments and other arguments on this thread: You keep insisting Moore’s behavior was based on sexual desire. To me, Moore was exercising his power over the underage females (and their families).
Moore was already established in a legal career and had attained the office of county prosecutor. He had money and powerful connections. If it was just a sexual itch he wanted to scratch, he could have gone to a local bordello or ordered “take-out”.
If he wanted a relationship with a lover, there were plenty of willing females at or above the age of consent in his county. Instead he launched into a series of inappropriate advances with underage girls and basically dared them to out him.
As Abagond wrote upthread:
“But because he was the county prosecutor, he thought he could get away with it:
I see Moore’s actions as the result of obsession/compulsion and a need to exert power over the lives of others. Sex was just a mode or conduit for him to express domination.
To me, that is where your argument falls flat. It wasn’t romance or seduction that drove Moore, just power lust.
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@ Afrofem
Exactly. It is about power and dominance, not libido and certainly not romance.
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hedda_Nussbaum
Read this and tell me again that power and dominance have nothing to do with some peoples’ libidos. Nonsense, People are weird and some quite sick.
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Afrofem and Abagond, where have I stated that Moore was after love or romance? He had an erection when Ms. Corfman refused to touch him, I’d say that was evidence of sexual desire on his part. Why would it be impossible to eroticize the need to dominate? Apparently, you are all so sheltered that you’ve never heard of BDSM play or too ashamed to admit that you do.
Abagond, libido is defined thus: “Libido (/lɪˈbiːdoʊ/), colloquially known as sex drive, is a person’s overall sexual drive or desire for sexual activity. Sex drive is influenced by biological, psychological and social factors.”
I fail to see how your power and dominance claim contradicts the definition.
The person out to scratch her sexual itch was Ms. Corfman, not Moore. He wanted to dominate her as you say.
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Re: Abagond’s
This freaks me out.
I remember going up with my family to the mall in Gadsden in the 1970s & 80s (it is only about 40 mins. from Anniston). My female cousins were teenagers then. I am just wondering. Do they remember him? or any of his victims? One of my cousins lives in Gadsden now, I need to ask her.
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@ jefe
Yikes!
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Moore is going to win, because Democrats have become such worthless human garbage that Americans like pedophiles more than Democrats at this point.
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Update (November 16th): Three more women have come forward. One was pulled out of her trigonometry class when she was in high school to answer a telephone call. She thought it was her father. It was Roy Moore asking for a date.
Even Sean Hannity of Fox News is turning against him! Geraldo Rivera had patiently explained to him several days ago that Moore is a liar, but he did not see the light till Reddi-wip and others started pulling their ads.
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Roy Moore’s lawyer, Trent Garmon, is really freaking me out. I feel that my childhood PTSD is getting stoked again.
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Hebrews 12:16 Lest there be any fornicator (sexually immoral), or profane person, as Esau (White men), who for one morsel of meat sold his birthright.
http://www.cnn.com/2017/10/25/us/list-of-accused-after-weinstein-scandal-trnd/index.html
Roy Moore didn’t make this list but I’m quite certain that he’ll be added later. These people are effing disgusting!
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@ abagond
Still a thing. Trump came out in support of him today.
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This is old news but shows the type of people who support Roy Moore. A rightwing undercover operative was unmasked by the Washington Post. She was working for Project Veritas (talk about oxymorons). Project Veritas is headed by some of the same people who smeared Acorn a decade ago.
Project Veritas claims their mission is to:
They were aiming their expensive smear campaign in the wrong direction, since Moore is a poster boy for “…dishonesty, self-dealing…and misconduct.”
https://www.washingtonpost.com/investigations/a-woman-approached-the-post-with-dramatic–and-false–tale-about-roy-moore-sje-appears-to-be-part-of-undercover-sting-operation/2017/11/27/0c2e335a-cfb6-11e7-9d3a-bcbe2af58c3a_story.html
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Update: According to a new CBS News poll, Moore is ahead by six points: “71 percent of Alabama Republicans say the allegations against Roy Moore are false, and those who believe this also overwhelmingly believe Democrats and the media are behind those allegations.”
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/alabama-republicans-allegations-against-moore-false-cbs-news-poll/
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@Abagond: Of course even with empirical evidence that Moore is a pedophile, these sick deluded fools choose to believe in lies.
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^ I really wish I could ask my female cousin living in Gadsden (who is close to the age group of these women), what the talk in Gadsden itself is. I don’t want to have to rely on East Coast mainstream news.
But, I don’t have the nerve to approach her with such a politically charged question. For all I know, she might be a full supporter of the “local boy” and want to send him to Washington.
All I did so far was tell her that her town made the news headlines in Hong Kong.
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Update: Trump now fully endorses Moore:
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@ Mary
They have been part of an authoritarian, non-fact-based culture long before Trump and Moore came to town.
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Update: Roy Moore, when asked about when America was great, said this, in 2017:
Note that during slavery families were regularly torn apart. It was one of the worst features of slavery for those who lived through it.
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The tearing apart of Black families during slavery affects the Black community to this day.
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@Abagond & Afrofem: I am not surprised at This asinine remark by Roy Moore. This is how these sick demons think in regards to black Americans. But we even have a poster who believes “Slavery wasn’t that bad compared to Jim Crow.” Those kind of statements make my teeth itch.
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I didn’t know when I first heard about this comment that Roy Moore was answering a question from a black constituent. That just makes it so much worse.
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@Solitaire: I am not surprised that Moore elicited this response, think about the mindset of his supporters this is how twisted these ghouls idiology is. These monsters see themselves as good up standing bible believing Christians. Mind you these the same folks from Jim Crow who went to church on Sunday and had picnics while some poor black soul was being lynched. They are the same ones who took photographs of those lynchings and made postcards.
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@ Solitaire
Not exactly answering your question but following link cited that:
http://edition.cnn.com/2017/12/09/opinions/gop-sacrifice-party-moore-zelizer-opinion/index.html
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@ munubantu
Followed your link. I think what CNN political analyst, Zelizer and other observers miss is that the Republicans don’t care about how their actions look or their words sound. Their only concern is the raw exercise of power. Any person or group that thinks they (or their supporters) can be shamed, ridiculed or criticized into civil behavior is delusional.
From their perspective they are a high speed train engine running at top velocity one way. The possibility of them running over a cliff with the rest of the USA and the world crashing behind them does not deter them in any way. That is why they are blind, deaf and dumb to climate change, flagrant sexual hypocrisy, brutal, endless war and deepening poverty both at home and abroad.
As long as they get what they want in the short and medium terms, the means will be worth it to the Republicans. The ends are all that matter to them.
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@ Mary Burrell
I’m not sure I’m exactly surprised but aghast and sickened. Moore’s comment was bad enough had it been in response to a white person. But to say it to a black person is like a direct punch in the gut. Moore basically said to him, “America was great back when you would have been a slave.”
I suppose this is one of those things where it’s probably better that the racist lets you know exactly where he stands, but I’m still appalled.
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@ Solitaire
He was saying that to every Black person no matter who asked the question.
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@ Abagond
Yes, you’re right.
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Early exit polls show a race that is too close to call.
Moore is winning Whites across the board by a landslide, but not by as much as past Republicans.
Black turnout, in proportion to Whites, is heavier than in 2008 when Obama first ran for president.
Jones is winning among Blacks (96%), those who live in cities of more than 50,000 (85%), people under 30 (62%), women (57%),and college graduates (52%). He gets 45% of the suburban vote.
There seem to be a significant number of write-in votes, particularly among college-educated Whites (3-4%).
Nearly half of voters (49%) see the election as a way to show support or opposition to Trump. His approval rating among voters is 47%, much higher than nationwide.
More:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/2017/politics/alabama-exit-polls/
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Alabama, a deep red state, is turning purple.
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Trump won 62.1% of the vote in Alabama in 2016. Moore is currently at 52.1% and is unlikely to get more than that when all the precincts have reported in. Black precincts are undermanned and are likely to report last.
Live results:
https://www.politico.com/interactives/elections/2017/alabama/special-election/dec-12/
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Politico projects Doug Jones as the winner. With 93.0% of precincts reporting, Jones defeats Moore 49.7% to 48.7%.
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Oh yeah, 81% of White Evangelicals who voted voted for Moore, but it seems that many of them sat out the election.
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@ TheHipHopRecords
Thanks for the graphics. I added the middle one to the post.
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Update (December 13th): Roy Moore loses to Doug Jones! Although Moore got 81% of the White Evangelical vote, he was defeated by a heavy Black turnout. Jones got 49.9% of the vote, Moore 48.4% with 1.7% write-ins.
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This is what bothers me about people who say it doesn’t matter whether anyone votes or not (and there were a few commenters here repeating that refrain loudly before the last presidential election).
Obviously it does matter. Black voter turnout determined the winner of this election.
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Black women for the win! #getinformation #willanyoneeverfightforus
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Harambee! To the black ladies of Alabama 🙌🏿🙌🏿🙌🏿🙌🏿🎉🎊
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Harambee means pull together and that’s what those sisters did defeat that deplorable Roy Moore. It’s a Christmas/Kawanza/Hanukkah miracle.
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The situation kind of mirrors the presidential elections.
Alabama is typicaly a very red state and went heavily for Trump last year. The Republican candidate should have won. However overconfidence caused the Rs to push a very controversial and extreme candidate which depressed typical voter turnout and galvanized his opposition. Quite a few staunch republican voters either sat out the election or wrote in someone else while those who hated Moore came out in full force. It was just enough to tip the scales in favor of Jones. Perhaps I should call it the “Hillary effect” after the most infamous case.
Lesson: when you’re almost guaranteed to win, don’t get greedy and select a terrible, polarizing candidate as that will nulify your advantage.
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@ Origin
I agree. Winning the primaries is no guarantee of the turnout needed to win in the general election. Something Obama understood with crystal clarity but Hillary did not.
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@ Solitaire
This is not the first time, isn’t it? Barack Obama became the first Black President of the USA because, in those elections, back in 2008, the White electorate was too divide and Blacks votes made the difference between him and John McCain, if I recall correctly.
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Even with voter suppression black folks in Alabama worked from a grassroots mode pulling together with limited resources they succeeded when white supremacy threw all manner of obstacles in their path. They formed coalitions young millennials from HBU to churches and to baby boomers formed a huge fist and struck a mighty blow. I hope black people are not complacent and sit on their laurels. I am hoping all over America black people do this same thing and turn out in large numbers and show the Democratic Party black people are not to be taken for granted. I am hoping and praying to get rid of the den of snakes in the current administration.
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Oh, joy! One right wing democrat eked out a victory over a Nazi like republican by taking the black vote for granted. What’s ‘Doug’ planing to do to reward blacks? Shades of Obama, Clinton, etc.
Plus ça change, plus c’est la même chose.
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