The Alternative Right (2010- ), better known as the alt-right for short, is the term coined by Richard Spencer for White nationalists who spread their ideas online. They are mostly in the US, in that space between the Republican Party and the Klan.
Examples: people like Richard Spencer, Jared Taylor and Steve Sailer, countless Internet trolls, and blogs like Alternative Right (the namesake), American Renaissance, Occidental Observer, Radix, The Right Stuff and VDare.
Gateway drug: Some count Breitbart News as alt-right. Stephen Bannon, the head of Breitbart News, now on leave to head Donald Trump’s campaign for president, calls it “the platform for the alt-right”. The Alternative Right blog, though, says Breitbart is more libertarian than anything. Richard Spencer said Breitbart is a “gateway” to alt-right writers and ideas.
Milo Yiannopoulos, now banned for life from Twitter for the racist attacks on Leslie Jones, is sometimes counted as alt-right. The Alternative Right blog says he is just an “individualist degenerate”.
Donald Trump shares many of its ideas – as do David Duke, Pat Buchanan, Madison Grant, Adolf Hitler and Samuel “Clash of Civilizations” Huntington.
Worldview: as the Alternative Right blog puts it:
“Equality is bullshit. Hierarchy is essential. The races are different. The sexes are different. Morality matters and degeneracy is real. All cultures are not equal and we are not obligated to think they are. Man is a fallen creature and there is more to life than hollow materialism. Finally, the white race matters, and civilisation is precious. This is the Alt-Right.”
They are straight-up racist and anti-feminist. The alt-right is home to race realism, the pseudoscientific racism of Human BioDiversity (HBD) and the sexism of the Manosphere.
Some, but not all, are anti-Semitic. Whether Jews control the world is a matter of debate.
Islamophobia seems to be a given. Homophobia is also common.
The alt-right sees itself as defenders of Western civilization and European peoples. White Americans, unlike, say, Romans or Russians, have no identity, no country of their own. Black Americans and even Jews in the US are allowed to be proud of who they are and stick up for their rights – but not White Americans. That would be – dun, dun, duuun! – politically incorrect.
The Republican Party, aka “cuckservatives”, have lost Hollywood, the press, the universities and therefore the battle of ideas. It is now cowed by political correctness, making it afraid to stand up for White people.
It gets worse: the Republicans, like the Democrats, have sold out to globalism, which is destroying America As We Knew It through open borders and immigration. The alt-right fears White genocide. It sees the world through an ethno-nationalist/globalist dichotomy, not so much a left/right one.
The Occidental Observer:
“An immigrant from India may be very competent but is unlikely to identify with the people and culture who created the US. We have to consciously and explicitly stand for the proposition that this is and should remain a European civilization. These institutions cannot survive Whites becoming a minority….”
– Abagond, 2016.
Sources: mainly Alternative Right, Occidental Observer, Radix, Southern Poverty Law Center, BBC.
See also:
- core alt-right websites:
- also alt-right:
- similar to the alt-right:
- The left and the right
- Republicans
- Trump voters
- White Evangelical Protestants
- The three pillars of American White Supremacy
614
“We have to consciously and explicitly stand for the proposition that this is and should remain a European civilization. These institutions cannot survive Whites becoming a minority….”
So Abagond, what do YOU think/guess they’re going to do about the above dilemma?? Other than the longstanding but growing increasingly unreliable (despite Kiwi’s best efforts) divide and conquer the masses tactic?
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If you are opposed to the alt-right and want to take a stand against it it is incumbent upon you to actually know what it is. There is a wide spectrum of political and idealogical thought that makes up what’s called the alt-right. There is a part of the alt-right that is racist, but most of it is not. For example, Alex Jones is nonracial. As a matter of fact, African-Americans are involved in the movement. It is open to everyone. I suggest judging each person by his own actions and listening for yourself before branding them racist. You may find you agree with a lot of it.
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I was literally just thinking, “I hope Abagond does a post on the alt-right soon.”
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I recognize some of the alt-right websites listed, and they are racist and above all anti-Semitic. Alex Jones, Breitbart, and the other truly popular leaders of the movement are not racist. I occasionally read the Occidental Observer. It is literate and deeply racist.
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@ Namesit Alawais
Are you saying that Breitbart News is not racist?
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@ Paige
I was thinking the same thing!
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http://www.alternet.org/election-2016/7-demeaning-alt-right-terms-used-racist-trump-followers?akid=14576.1929437.G6BpRt&rd=1&src=newsletter1062635&t=2
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Alex Jones and Breitbart are wholly and totally racists. They just aren’t as overt as their Alt-Right allies.
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@ Fan
They are going to push their ideas as hard as possible. They do not seem to be bomb-throwing revolutionaries, like ISIS or Boko Haram. If Trump, or someone like him, becomes president, their ideas will become more respectable and widespread. But I think the US has already demographically passed that bend in the river where a White nationalist sort could become president.
The US has been here before, a hundred years ago. Back then the alt-right sorts talked about “Nordics” or “Aryans” as necessary to preserve civilization, not “Europeans”. In 1924 the US passed draconian immigration laws, but by the 1980s Italian, Polish and Jewish Americans (for the most part) were seen as plain old White people. It will be the same with White Hispanics. Latin America will be seen as part of “Western civilization”, not as some kind of racialized threat to it.
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I think there are a lot more “mainstream” politicians and celebrities who would fall in the alt-right category.
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@ Namesit Alawais
There are also African Americans on Fox News.
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The Alt Right is more pro Gay then anti Gay. Milo and others are open about their sexuallity.and flaunt it. They are also MRA’s which coincides with there anti feminism.
“Cucks” literal meaning references a submissive man sexually cuckolded by a woman thus the MRA aspect of the Alt Right.
Early Alt Right started as Internet memes.
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Reblogged this on The Militant Negro™.
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semioplex on Sat 27 Aug 2016 at 13:48:06
“Alex Jones and Breitbart are wholly and totally racists. They just aren’t as overt as their Alt-Right allies.”
I believe each person should go to the source of writing and speech to decide for oneself. Often opposition groups and individuals throw out caustic labels to invalidate legitimate voices. None of us should rely on others to do this research. It’s why I go to sources.
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@Anne
“I think there are a lot more “mainstream” politicians and celebrities who would fall in the alt-right category.”
Good point. What constitutes Right and “mainstream” are nearly indistinguishable in this country now. This is especially true in the upper income brackets.
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“Are you saying that Breitbart News is not racist?”
I see them as political and not racial. I don’t think they can be lumped together with those like American Renaissance. The latter are white supremacist.
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[…] alt-right | Abagond https://abagond.wordpress.com/2016/08/26/alt-right/ […]
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@ Namesit Alawais
“I see them as political and not racial. I don’t think they can be lumped together with those like American Renaissance. The latter are white supremacist.”
Perhaps it depends on how one defines “racist.” Are you saying that racism = white supremacist rhetoric? Do you consider anything besides the most virulent white supremacist thought to be racist?
What about HBD? Fox News? Any racism there, in your assessment?
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Enlightening post about what the term alt right is. Basically this is just white supremacy all dressed up and instead of good old boys in KKK regalia or plaid sleeveless shirts and overalls chewing a wad of tobacco. These hyper racist are in bottom down Oxford shirts and expensive loafers. They are passing their sick racism down to the next generation.
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Milo Yiannolopolos and his fellow reptile cohorts are reprehensible for their attacks on Leslie Jones. These cretins are attacking this woman just because they are angry about the Ghostbusters film. Out of all the cast members they targeted Leslie Jones. I am not a fan of Leslie Jones comedy, but I feel this leaking of her personal information and these beast posting a picture of the dead gorilla Harambee comparing a black woman to a primate. This Milo Yiannolopolos and his cohorts are just a big steaming pile of feces.
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Yiannolopolos is an openly queer man yet he is a racist. With that being said I have met quite a few openly white queer males in the workplace in the past. Learning about this miscreant turns my stomach.
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The alt-right is looking for gold in old mines. They want to conjure up white supremacy into the mainstream without the essential ingredient called colonization. Their movement is nothing new; its just old vomit contained in a golden box. It has no solid foundation and will crumble very soon. For their movement to succeed they will have to slaughter every single human in the global south (brown and black).
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@namesit alawais
Unfortunately, people are defined by the company they keep.
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“people are defined by the company they keep.”
CNN just reporting Clarence Henderson supporting Trump. Also Medgar Evers’ brother. They are keeping company with Trump. It’s a mistake to close one’s mind to new possibilities. You want to think Trump hates you. He might turn out to be your ally.
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It has no solid foundation and will crumble very soon.
The nationalism of the alt-right is actually pretty mild when compared to Indian nationalism (Hindutva, since secular Indian nationalism is a myth), Chinese nationalism, and other nationalisms around the world. Trump is not going to orchestrate a pogrom targeting minorities like the Hindus of Gujarat did in 2002. Trump will not treat minorities in the same way the Chinese treat the Uighurs. Trump will not mass murder blacks like the Sinhalese butchered tamils over the last 3 decades.
Try openly celebrating the demographic demise of Hindus in India or Hans in China and observe what happens to you. The Indians will unleash a mob on you while the Chinese will send you to a re-education camp. That you can openly cheer the demographic decline of whites with impunity and still have the temerity to whine about “oppression” in the west is incredible beyond belief. A lot of you people are in dire need of some travel if you think the Alt-right espouses “extreme views”.
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@Namesit Alawais
Still reluctant to answer a direct question, huh?
Solitaire asked you three direct questions upthread:
What is your your assessment?
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I doubt whether this is about how mild the racism is or not. African Americans must be treated equally in America. If the Indians can’t stand up to their oppressors in their country that is their own problem.
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@ Dota
“Trump will not mass murder blacks like the Sinhalese butchered tamils over the last 3 decades. “
Trump may not, but his rabid White Supremacist followers would do so in a heartbeat.
That you can openly cheer the demographic decline of whites with impunity and still have the temerity to whine about “oppression” in the west is incredible beyond belief.
Oppression of Black people by the White majority is something that Black people live and die with everyday. From rampaging police to defunded schools, Black people can see, hear and feel the very real and concrete ways our lives are affected by systemic oppression.
Any “demographic decline of whites” that you may perceive is self inflicted.
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I have met quite a few queer white racist males in the workplace is what i wanted to say in my second post what Yiannopolis and his cretin cohorts have done is reprehensible it turns my stomach.
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@Abagond
“In 1924 the US passed draconian immigration laws to Keep America White, but by the 1980s Italian, Polish and Jewish Americans (for the most part) were seen as plain old White people. It will be the same with White Hispanics.”
.
Let’s not forget the recent waves of Russian, Ukrainian, East Indian, Serb, Iranian and other immigrants … I’ve witnessed these new arrivals receiving better LIFE accommodations than those (LAZY?) darker skin people who were born in Amerika, but I digress.
I recall a fellow employee (recent immigrant from Russia) trying hard to convince me how Michelle Obama was way above her traveling privileges on the taxpayers’ dime, supposedly pending well beyond the money of any other former 1st lady. I was of the impression he was listening to/believing some *talk radio* personality like Rush Limbaugh.
Anyway…. Why are you so convinced Black people will be safer overall if the Clintons re-take the white house?? Haven’t they already done Black people enough harm?
It’s not going to make that much difference who’s (s)elected as the next president. Neither candidate bodes well for the country (even if by some miracle Trump should win). The country’s heading towards becoming burnt toast, or worse. Whomever is (s)elected will still have to do, in the end, the bidding of their more powerful monied masters.
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@ Dota
Your entire comment is basically a veiled threat. The underlying message you convey is that African Americans should shut up and stop exercising their right to free speech. Otherwise…well, look at all these bad things happening to minorities in other parts of the world, hmmm.
Yearning for the good old days, are we, when white people did slaughter and butcher minorities throughout the United States?
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“Still reluctant to answer a direct question, huh?
Solitaire asked you three direct questions upthread:
“Perhaps it depends on how one defines “racist.” Are you saying that racism = white supremacist rhetoric? Do you consider anything besides the most virulent white supremacist thought to be racist?
What about HBD? Fox News? Any racism there, in your assessment?”
What is your your assessment?”
I believe there can be racism even if it is not virulent white supremacist, yes. I recognize racism when I encounter it. I distinguish between racism and insensitivity borne of ignorance. Racism carries with it ill will.
Fox News? I don’t consider them to be racist. But if you’ve heard instances of racism, I would like you to point them out. What is HBD?
=====================
People tend to fight yesterday’s battles. The white supremacist fringe gets played up. A few hundred or more likely a dozen obnoxious people can cause a big fuss on Twitter when they post crude comments about Leslie Jones, but they only represent a very small minority. Let’s not empower them. There are far more people of good will.
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Your entire comment is basically a veiled threat.
No. It was a call for some honest reflection. Being a minority sucks, I understand that. As an Indian Muslim, I’m a minority even in my country of origin. However, I’d much rather be a minority here in Canada than back in India where I might be marked for death should the next Hindutva riot break out. I was hoping that you’d reflect on the fact that you have it much better here in the US than minorities in other parts of the world. Whites genuinely make an attempt to accommodate minority grievances and incorporate said grievances into mainstream discourse. This simply does not happen in the non western world (ie the rest of the planet).
All the alt right wants is that the people who created the US and its institutions get to maintain their cultural hegemony. This is certainly the case everywhere else in the world and unlike South Asia and Middle East, minorities won’t get their throats cut here. You are not barred from education and economic opportunities like the dalits of India and neither does the state interfere in your way of life like China with the Uighurs.
Anyhow, once the Indians and Chinese come to power in the US after the decline of whites, do you think they’ll give 2 shits about black grievance mongering? The Asians and Hispanics will simply laugh at you when you try and peddle your historical injustice narrative to them. Are you naive enough to think that these people will eschew their tribal loyalties and join some rainbow people of colour coalition with blacks? Hardly. For your own sake, you’d best pray that whites continue to remain the dominant majority in the US.
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@ Namesit Alawais
“What is HBD?”
“Fox News? I don’t consider them to be racist. But if you’ve heard instances of racism, I would like you to point them out.”
I could give you many instances, but then our conversation would devolve into a back and forth on whether or not each example was racist, and that wasn’t the point of my question, nor do I intend to be derailed in that fashion.
The reason I asked was instead to get some sense on your own definition of racism, since you have been assuring everyone that Breitbart News is not racist. Yet I do read Breitbart, and I think it is racist as all get-out. Perhaps what I find racist about Breitbart you would consider “insensitivity borne of ignorance?”
I believe each person should go to the source of writing and speech to decide for oneself.
Are you implying that Abagond and his readers do not? I’ve read Breitbart and I know Abagond has because he’s said as much elsewhere on his blog. I’ve listened to and read Rush Limbaugh, Sean Hannity, Glen Beck, Alex Jones, Ann Coulter, etc., and I know I’m not the only one here who has. You seem to be assuming that everyone here “rel[ies] on others to do this research.” Why?
“I recognize racism when I encounter it. Racism carries with it ill will.”
I would be very interested in some concrete examples of the ill-willed racism you’ve encountered to help me better understand the distinctions you’re making. Also I would appreciate an explanation of how the effects of ill-willed racism are any different from the effects of ignorance-based racial bias and insensitivity.
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@ Dota
“For your own sake, you’d best pray that whites continue to remain the dominant majority in the US.”
Dude, I am white. And you’ve really drunk the kool aid.
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@ Dota
Although I did look at your blog earlier today, and honestly you sounded white. If you say you’re Indian, then I guess I have to take your word for it.
But funny how this also sounds very, very white:
“Anyhow, once the Indians and Chinese come to power in the US after the decline of whites, do you think they’ll give 2 shits about black grievance mongering? The Asians and Hispanics will simply laugh at you when you try and peddle your historical injustice narrative to them.”
I have never, ever heard Asians or Hispanics vomit out this piece of rhetoric, whereas I have seen from white racists almost word-for-word the same statement.
Not saying there aren’t some Asians and Hispanics who hold similar sentiments, but this is not the way they express it, word it, or conceptualize it.
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@ Dota
This reads a lot like what an abuser would say to the abused — “You better hope and pray I don’t leave, because the next person won’t treat you as good as I do.”
Sounds a stone’s throw away from the 14 words, doesn’t it?
The alt-right movement is white nationalism wrapped up in the pseudo-intellectual language of the Internet generation — a combination of teen and college-aged 4chan /pol/ visitors and Reddit dwellers and older, opportunistic vultures looking to cash in on white anger and frustration.
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@Dota
“…unlike South Asia and Middle East, minorities won’t get their throats cut here. You are not barred from education and economic opportunities like the dalits of India and neither does the state interfere in your way of life like China with the Uighurs.”
You understanding of US history is cursory at best. Black people (whom you condescendingly refer to as “minorities”) have gone through periods of intense repression, including enslavement, mass rape, mob violence, massive displacement and land theft. The past 15 years alone have seen:
◉ a calculated rollback of hard fought rights through both legislative and judicial actions
◉ the eviction of Black citizens from New Orleans after the Katrina debacle
◉ the systematic eviction of millions more Black people from major urban areas through the process of gentrification.
◉ the closing of predominantly Black schools and the mass firing of Black teachers
◉ an attempt to defund historically Black higher education by the so-called first Black president
◉ increasing “eliminationist rhetoric” (incitement to anti-Black violence) by White Supremacist demagogues like Limbaugh and Beck, et. al.
◉ a corresponding increase in White vigilante violence and police rampages that result in the murder of Black people
◉ the construction of a huge prison industrial complex that has shredded the very fabric of Black American family and community life and resulted in every eighth prisoner on the planet being an African American (not even India or China can boast those stats).
◉ the theft of billions of dollars of Black homes and wealth through the sub-prime mortgage swindles of the 1990s and early 2000s.
◉ the loss of millions of family wage jobs through off-shoring. Those jobs went to China, Mexico, Vietnam and India. Black people were especially vulnerable to this loss of jobs since we have always been the last hired and the first fired.
I think your notions that Black people are “…not barred from education and economic opportunities…and neither does the state interfere in your way of life…” are not supported by the facts of Black history or Black life in America in the current moment.
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@ Solitaire
Re: Dota
Perceptive.
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@ Mack Lyons
It does indeed sound like “a stones throw away from the 14 words.”
The powers that be have been inciting anti-Black sentiment and violence by persuading some White people that they are victims. White people have been sold a bill of goods about how their very existence is threatened by “genetic anihilation”, cultural sidelining and economic displacement.
This process has been ongoing since the 1980s. The primary propagandists are the usual suspects like White supremacist demagogues. They are aided and abetted by the corporate media with their daily doses of fear, murder and mayhem.
Keeping White people in a tizzy with these falsehoods diverts attention from the social restructuring and looting their own wealthy cousins are working so hard to achieve.
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@ Namesit Alawais
“…I distinguish between racism and insensitivity borne of ignorance.”
Both are individualistic and one dimensional views of racism. Racism is actually a system. It goes way beyond individuals saying and doing “mean things” to others.
It is easy to deflect and dismiss racism if you only see it as a series of individual actions instead of the all enveloping system of inequality. It is a system that affects every aspect of life in this country. The system operates whether the people inside of it are aware of the negative outcomes of their actions or they are oblivious to those outcomes.
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@ Dota
You know what else doesn’t ring true about your “Indian Muslim” identity? This:
“All the alt right wants is that the people who created the US and its institutions get to maintain their cultural hegemony.”
Why as an Indian Muslim would you wholeheartedly support this aim, whether in the US or Canada? And no. I’m not suggesting you’d want to implement sharia law, so don’t even go there. But wouldn’t you, as a Canadian Muslim, like to see the institutions of your society be more accepting and understanding of your faith?
For example, assuming you are observant, wouldn’t you prefer more designated prayer spaces, the ability to pray at the proper times without risking disapproval from bosses or teachers or even passers-by, more accomodation and understanding during Ramadan, recognition of your religious holdiays and more ease in being granted time off to observe those sacred days?
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@Dota
“Whites genuinely make an attempt to accommodate minority grievances and incorporate said grievances into mainstream discourse. This simply does not happen in the non western world (ie the rest of the planet). ”
In other words you want African Americans to just shut up and be content with the crumbs that fall off the table.I am not surprised you are from India; a country where inequality is maintained with an iron fist by paranoid upper castes. FYI it used to be like that in America but African Americans stood up and fought that monster to the ground. Had they not done that, brown Muslim Indians like you would never be accepted in the American society. If the lower castes in India are satisfied with their miserable lot in India do not expect African Americans to do the same in the USA. They are American citizens and are entitled to equal treatment. Their ancestors helped build that country. Where were your ancestors when African Americans were laboring in plantations in the South? They are a recent addition to America but are arrogant enough to tell AAs what they should or should not do.
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@Solitare
I have noticed a number of Indians and Asians among HBDers. They sound like Dota too (all think black people should shut up and appreciate that white people are even willing to talk to them). I also spotted a Nigerian in one of those forums. Its like a parable of a man with a broken leg dipping his hands in a basket full of scorpions hoping to fight one pain with greater pain (except he dies).
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Abagond wrote,
“The Alternative Right blog, though, says Breitbart is more libertarian than anything.”
I found this statement curious as Breitbart is pro war, runs Islamophobic articles, is critical of feminism, pro Trump, anti trade, anti immigration and alludes to conspiracies tied to Hilary Clinton. These positions reflect what the Alt Right promotes and do not reflect libertariansim idiology which opposes preety much all of the above.
I myself identify as a libertarianish classical liberal and Breitbart was never part of my reading material because when i did come axross there articales none of them were anything libertarian or liberal. A libertarian leaning magazine reads like Reason not Breitbart.
I did some googling around to see what libertarian articals Breitbart did publish and most are skeptical of libertarianism with the latest one claiming that Johnson/Weld are shills for Hilary Clinton. (More conspiracy stuff).
However I did find the article I belive the Alternative Right blog is referring too and it deals with the idea of “cultural libertariansim” and how that philosophical position supports the Alt Rights verbal and written attacks against feminism, individuals and leftist ideas.
The lefts obsession with PC speech and it’s attempt to control it, I belive hinders free speech a day has led to a kind of backlash. The right to free speech, regardless of content, is rooted in classical liberalism.
The Alt Right flaunts and trolls it’s misogynistic, racist message under the guise of cultural libertariansim even though libertain positions on the issues and ideas they promote are ideologically polar opposites. The Alt Right has co-opted a part of libertain philosophy and left the rest.
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Regarding Afrofem’s quote from Dota:
The better example is what the USA has done to Native Americans, who got their throats cut, were barred from education and economic opportunities (in particular, had their land taken right from them), and where the state always did and continues to interfere in their way of life (eg, plucking their kids to attend boarding schools).
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@ villagewriter
“I have noticed a number of Indians and Asians among HBDers. They sound like Dota too (all think black people should shut up and appreciate that white people are even willing to talk to them).”
I’m aware of that and have seen it too (although the Nigerian flummoxed me — wow!)
What I’m noticing here, though, is Dota’s language that goes beyond telling black people to shut up, that posits what will happen to blacks if/when whites lose power to Asians and/or Hispanics. That’s what sounds off to me. I’ve witnessed some discussions among Asians and Hispanics about “how things will be different when we become the majority/gain control” — real life discussions where I was positive they weren’t actually white Anglos hiding behind a screen. In those discussions, they don’t spend a helluva lot of time talking about black people. The focus is very squarely on whites — and it most definitely isn’t about how they’re going to maintain the cultural hegemony of white people once they take over.
Now, I admittedly haven’t spent much time in HBD forums. Maybe you’ve seen lots of instances of self-described Indians using the same rhetoric as Dota did here, including the part that (as Mack Lyons points out) comes very close to the 14 Words. I could be wrong.
But another thing that makes me suspicious is the blog that Dota’s user name links to. I’m having trouble now pulling it up on this device due to security protocol issues, so I’ll have to rely on my memory. But IIRC, there was a lot of “we whites” wording in those blog posts.
Another thing I found interesting was a recent blog post referred to a woman named Dota in the third person, as if she is an acquaintance or maybe the girlfriend of the blog’s author. I wouldn’t put it past a white alt-right race realist to decide to pose on Abagond’s blog as his non-white friend because he thinks it will gain his ideas more traction, but forgetting to alter his writing sufficiently (e.g. “once the Indians … they” instead of “we”).
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Dota @ All the alt right wants is that the people who created the US and its institutions get to maintain their cultural hegemony. This is certainly the case everywhere else in the world and unlike South Asia and Middle East, minorities won’t get their throats cut here.
Linda says,
Thank you Jefe, for pointing out reality:
Jefe:
why is it important for white Americans to retain their “cultural identity” that was built off of the invasion, occupation, and murder of the original inhabitants of stolen land – the First Nations (Native Americans)
White Americans did everything possible to eliminate Native Americans, so that they could not reclaim their Nation or re-build their population and cultures.
So, now we, as black and brown people, have to feel sorry for the descendants of white Thieves and squatters, who stole the house and built a “large, beautiful, wall” around it with laws and their well-oiled police and military machine — because they feel “threatened” because they can’t openly call black people n”’rs anymore or call Mexicans “wetbks”
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@villagewriter
” If the lower castes in India are satisfied with their miserable lot in India do not expect African Americans to do the same in the USA.”
Perhaps one reason for the uptick in South Asian/Desi participation in racist alt-right forums is that even in India, Dalits are fighting back.
A recent article pointed out how some Dalits have traditionally culled dead cows for hides and meat. Under Hindu nationalist leader, Modi, Hindu vigilantes have been on a rampage of violence against anyone perceived harming cows. The vigilantes have publicly beaten and humiliated Dalits for performing their traditional duties. Duties that upper caste Hindu’s shun, because they believe contact with dead bodies “pollutes” them.
The Dalits staged a protest where they simply refused to scavenge:
http://qz.com/738758/indias-dalits-strike-back-at-centuries-of-oppression-by-letting-dead-cows-rot-on-the-streets/
“Dota” could very well be a garden variety White Supremacist or he/she could be an upper caste Desi sensing a major change in the future. A change that could strip him/her of a slew of unearned privileges.
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@Afrofem
The way they treat Dalits really makes me really mad sometimes. There was a Dalit delegation that came to Kenya several years ago and the stories they told about the horrors they faced in India was heartbreaking.
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@ villagewriter
Dalits still face massive discrimination as Non-Resident Indians. Some have responded by evasion and passing as non-Dalits in the Diaspora.
This article lays out the perils ( and the promise) of being a Dalit outside of India:
https://dalitnation.com/2014/08/12/still-i-rise/
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@Afrofrem
Thanks for the link.
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“The term “Five Civilized Tribes” derives from the colonial and early federal period. It refers to five Native American nations—the Cherokee, Chickasaw, Choctaw, Creek (Muscogee), and Seminole. These are the first five tribes that Anglo-European settlers generally considered to be “civilized” according to their own world view, because these five tribes adopted attributes of the colonists’ culture,[1] for example, Christianity, centralized governments, literacy, market participation, written constitutions, intermarriage with white Americans, and plantation slavery practices. The Five Civilized Tribes tended to maintain stable political relations with the Europeans.”
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Five_Civilized_Tribes
What happened to them? They adapted to European mores a bit too well for White people.
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How come nobody has anything nice to say about Colin Kaepernick deciding to sit during the national anthem? http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000691077/article/colin-kaepernick-explains-protest-of-national-anthem
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From the Urban Dictionary: HBD
Yet another attempt to dress up discredited pseudo-scientific racism.
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@ jefe
Regarding Afrofem’s quote from Dota:
Actually I excerpted a quote from Dota’s comment:
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Ok, I stand corrected. I used a different computer to get into Dota’s blog (Occident Invicta) and it seems I misread or misremembered the latest post, mistaking a reference to a Bollywood actress as referring to Dota’s gender.
There are, though, two different men who run this blog: Dota, who does say he is an Indian Muslim, and Bay Area Guy, who identifies as white.
https://occidentinvicta.com/about/
Dota states: “The three Racial groupings tend to be rather broad and somewhat ambiguous at times (where to classify Australoids?). From a purely genetic point of view, Bay Area Guy and myself are part of the same race as Higher caste Indians (such as myself) cluster closer towards Europeans (see Sforza).” (https://occidentinvicta.com/our-views-on-race/)
So, yeah, Afrofem seems to be more on target than I was. Higher-caste Indian who buys into the old, disproven tri-racial model and most likely considers Europeans and Indians to both be Aryans. Fooling himself that white people see him as one of them.
Still not entirely convinced that it wasn’t Bay Area Guy posting here under Dota’s name, but obviously Dota has drunk deeply of the kool aid.
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[…] recently left a few comments on Abagond’s blog recently, and unsurprisingly, some of the commenters there accused me of […]
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I lol’ed at the waifu pillow.
Then that changed to crying when I realize these guys are giving birth to Eurasian kids (see john Derbyshire) who end up suffering for their parents’ racism.
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@solitaire
The “be thankful cause those people are worse” is a bad interpretation because projects Anglo views and contexts onto other places who have different fundamental mentalities and contexts from where their discriminations sprung
Shit exists everywhere but in different forms and contexts and histories.
Funny since I actually know some black Americans who’ve left the anglosphere and even to places with “Hispanics, Asians, Africans, Caribbean, etc” and are happier there. There is shit everywhere, but in different forms and many find that actually prefer to deal with the type of shit found “there” versus “here.” Aka they actually prefer types of racism there over Anglo-American racism :p
Is it better or worse? In many ways it’s apples and oranges. Hard to compare since context and history through how it’s evolved is so different.
I mean I’m chinese and traditionally we lack the one-drop-rule mentality of Anglo Americans. Shit, even “Han chinese” is insanely broad and many groups that are “Han” today were not Han 1000 years ago but assimilated into “chineseness.” There are ethnic issues in China, but traditionally chinese or even japanese did not view it from a fundamentally determinist, one-drop, almost Darwinist mentality that seems I have charictariZed Anglo North American mentality towards “others.” The Japanese (and the nazis) actually learned their eugenics, “pure race” mentality from Anglo Americans FFS.
Shitty, but shitty in a differet way.
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@ Женщина
Right. It’s not at all true that the U.S. and Canada are the only places now or in history that have had multicultural, multi-ethnic societies. Dota as a Muslim should know this since one of the major examples is the medieval Muslim world, including al-Andalus (Islamic Spain).
As Afrofem points out, the Dalits are protesting the discrimination against them. They are not entirely opposed in this; there are (and have been at least since Gandhi) higher-caste Indians working to end the oppression of the Dalits, which as an Indian Dota should know. Gandhi also promoted unity between Muslims and Hindus, and there are still people in India working for this cause, which as an Indian Dota should know.
But he’s ignoring all this, and many other examples, to focus on his nihilist view of humans as inherently tribalistic and xenophobic. To what end, I’m not sure, since he’s abandoning his own tribe for a bunch of pale Christians who, in their heart of hearts, believe he’s inferior to them because of the amount of melanin in his skin.
That is, assuming Dota really is who he says he is, and not some white person posing online as an Indian Muslim to make the alt-right look more inclusive and less racist.
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Oh good lord. I just followed the pingback to Dota’s latest blogpost (in which he bitches about my mistaking him for white while getting my gender wrong — It’s the internet, Dota! No one can see you!) ….
…. AND he has just pronounced that only white people, out of all humanity, possess compassion.
How does he frame his argument? By using an Indian word, derived from an Arabic word, that means compassion.
So he’s arguing that non-whites and non-Europeans have no compassion while using a non-white and non- European word for that very concept.
Duh.
I’m not about to post over there because I don’t want them to have my e-mail address. But Dota, if you’re reading this, you’re a coward for preaching to your choir instead of coming back here and taking up the gauntlet.
Although I don’t blame you for being afraid to argue with women like Afrofem and myself, since you have so far demonstrated a phenomenal lack of logic in your reasoning.
Still, we could really use the laughs, since that other coward Jacques has run off once again.
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@ Abagond
What did I do this time? Is cow*rd a moderated word???
I’m g*nna j*st st*rt p*tting aster*ks everywh*r*. Vwls r nt ncssry nywy, rght?
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@Solitaire
“…assuming Dota really is who he says he is, and not some white person posing online as an Indian Muslim to make the alt-right look more inclusive and
less racist.”
I think you unveiled the “Dota” character upthread with this comment:
South Asia is awash in all sorts of bigotry, casteism, religious intolerance and mysogyny (like other regions of the world) so a purported “Indian Muslim” could be involved in alt-right bigotry, but the odds are tilted in favor of a digital masquerade.
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@ Solitaire
“Bitch” is moderated:
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@ Afrofem
I keep waffling back and forth on it, but ultimately so much of what he says rings false. If he still identifies as Muslim, why is he lauding Christianity as superior? How much self-hatred can someone have to claim their own people don’t have any compassion (and in that blogpost he pulls numerous examples from India)? Ignoring the role of compassion in his own religion? Not to mention the essential role of compassion in that India-based religion, Buddhism?
And then there’s how much the writing in his blogposts sounds just like that of his purported white co-author.
But y’know, at this juncture I’m starting not to care whether he’s white, brown, purple, or plaid. Whatever else he is, he’s a coward and a fool. That’s all I really need to know.
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@ Abagond
Thanks! That makes sense. When I use it in the verb form as a synonym for “whine; complain,” I have a tendency to forget the root of the word. Will endeavor to keep it in mind.
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@ Fan
It is not a matter of who will do harm, but who will do LESS harm. Trump lacks experience and is more openly racist, so he will likely do more harm. Even if he gets nothing through Congress, Whites will feel safe in being more openly and violently racist.
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@semioplex
“Alex Jones and Breitbart are wholly and totally racists. They just aren’t as overt as their Alt-Right allies.”
I’m familiar with the former but not the latter, but what makes them racist? Or the better question is what makes them any more racist than other major US media outlets?
@Fan
“Haven’t they already done Black people enough harm?””
Yes, yes and yes. The fact that most people in federal prisons for drug convictions are non-white and from the city, when whites outside of cities constitute the majority of drug users is a direct result of the racist policies that both Hillary and Bill championed.
The fact that any black voter in America would support either Clinton is appalling. What a laughing stock the black voting block has become.
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“Even if he gets nothing through Congress, Whites will feel safe in being more openly and violently racist.”
@Abagond
Whites have ALWAYS felt safe in being openly and violently racist.
All racism is violence!
A white Dylan Roof murdered NINE unarmed Black people in a church and was predictably taken alive by police, and then taken out for hamburgers after his arrest and while in police custody. Apparently a Black president promoted this feeling of safety Roof had “in being more openly and violently racist.”
Meanwhile unarmed BLACK PEOPLE are routinely murdered for being Black and caught alive, breathing in the wrong place/space. What’s different between now and the days of white overseers/slave patrols?
Just to be clear, I’m no Trump fan either. Nonetheless his propensity toward evil/greater harm is strictly speculative and unknown, assuming his candidacy is even genuine. He has not done one iota of the political crap Hillary has gotten away with! Whereas the Clintons’ inclination toward great harm and continual evil is ALREADY ESTABLISHED and quite well known, documented and proved by their political record and close ties to known criminals.
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@solitaire
I glanced at his blog and posts, and from what I see, it seems he was treated like shit growing up and going to school in Dubai. That part of the world is notorious for treated south Asians like shit so I guess I’m not surprised. But it seems he’s blamed himself for being treated like that in some ways going by writings, as he describes shitty treatment yet never really acknowledges it as shitty or unjust treatment
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Just like the Birther movement and the Tea Party these entities are just whiteness acting in fear. Alt-Right is just another wing nut movement created by whiteness out of fear of losing privilege and power in the social hierarchy. That’s why all these crazies are drinking the kool aid and pushing for a ego maniac like Trump. Whiteness is a mental illness. The inmates are truly running this asylum.
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@Solitaire
I also just followed the link back to the site of the mythical “Dota”.
If ignorance is bliss, “Dota” is floating away into the ionosphere, not even a cloud for support.
His/her Euro worship is understandable for a South Asian considering their extreme color fixations. His/her lack of historical and cultural acumen is appalling. This quote just blows anyone who knows global history since 1492 away:
“Culture of compassion” indeed. This is an example of Stockholm Syndrome to the nth degree!
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@ resw
“The fact that any black voter in America would support either Clinton is appalling.”
.
I agree. It shows an astounding lack of knowledge (or indifference) towards the Clintons as incredibly smooth talking elite thugs/crooks dressed up as politicians.
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@ Женщина
Thanks. I didn’t explore the site to that degree, so I appreciate that you did. How sad. I actually feel a little sorry for the guy now. He’s really messed up, but what you found does help to explain how his head got that way.
@ Afrofem
… but then I read stuff like the quote you posted and that feeling of pity evaporates.
I am seriously having trouble wrapping my mind around the fact that he could identify as South Asian and still write something like that about his own people and, by extension, himself. It sounds like Kipling’s “White Man’s Burden,” FFS!!
I do know that internalized racism, Stockholm Syndrome, etc., is real. I do understand that and I’ve seen it before. But to this degree?!? Wow.
(Poor guy. He came over here to preach the truth of the alt-right and set us silly “PC liberals” straight, and instead now we’re psychoanalyzing him.)
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@ Fan
By that logic then you would vote for any of these alt-right blowhards over Hillary Clinton too since the harm they would do would also be “strictly speculative”.
Trump is not just saying racist stuff, he is basing his campaign on it. Even his “outreach” to Blacks is racist. These are huge red flags. If the Clintons could do what they did on just dog whistles, I shudder to think what Trump would do.
Within what power Trump has had over Black lives, his racism has not been speculative: he would not rent to Blacks and Latinos in New York, even when that meant breaking the law.
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“PC liberals” in quotes because I know not everyone here is on the left side of the political spectrum. It’s the label I suspect Dota gave to Abagond et al. in his head.
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@solitaire
Like you guys said above, though, it’s not unheard of for upper-caste south Asians to be like that. There are certainly some cultural overlaps with Anglo American mentality. Color and in-born fixation (different from Colorism) and determinist hierarchies in forms of the caste system or one drop rule, Calvinism (which permeates Anglo American culture to this day) for one.
Still, we know the world is in flux and that India, Anglo world, and elsewhere has dynamic, changing, justice-oriented movements ATM. Dalits, women, lgbt, what have you. The world is complex and ever changing.
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@ Abagond
“Trump is not just saying racist stuff, he is basing his campaign on it. ”
Please. How many election cycles have you lived through as an adult? Politicians always base their campaigns on anything they think might help them get elected. In other words, to win many will lie, cheat and worse. Obama based his campaign on “CHANGE” and bringing the troops home from overseas. You see how well that worked out.
An illustration —
If I was a woman knowingly in the company of two men with the choice of spending a little time with: one who has a long and sordid history as a rapist, or the second man who talks about raping women to his buddies over a few beers, engaging in some untoward masculine bravado, but in reality has never raped anyone. I’d much rather take my chances with the latter man. Only if I wanted to be raped/mistreated would I choose the first dude – with the actual rape history.
If the Clintons are your people, go for it. You’re in the company of a lot of people. Neither the Clintons or Trump are anyone I’d vote for.
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@Fan …
“I agree. It shows an astounding lack of knowledge (or indifference) towards the Clintons as incredibly smooth talking elite thugs/crooks dressed up as politicians.”
Right, because they pander to blacks on the campaign trail, but when in office they don’t do anything for blacks.
I thought that cartoon that generated all the brouhaha yesterday was very a propos.
(You’d think the coons on the Breakfast Club would have asked Hillary to prove that she carried a bottle of hot sauce in her purse, ask her why she felt the need to say that in the company of blacks and how many times she’s ever told that to a group of whites).
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“Right, because they pander to blacks on the campaign trail, but when in office they don’t do anything for blacks.”
.
Politics in Amerika has morphed into a “pay to play” game.
Blacks as a rule never pay. If there is a lobby that represents Black people, I’ve never heard of them.
I’m not an advocate of paying politicians to do what they’re (s)elected to do, represent ALL of the people. The Feds already get a nice paycheck plus excellent bennies.
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@resw
Is this your personal commentary under the offensive cartoon of HRClinton?
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let this be a white homeland. We need to divest from whites for our true freedom. We are just guests here.
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@Afrofem
Yes based on her telling the Breakfast Club coons that she carries hot sauce in her bag. And I think that’s what’s offensive, not a cartoon mocking her offensiveness.
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@Fan…
“Politics in Amerika has morphed into a “pay to play” game.
Blacks as a rule never pay. If there is a lobby that represents Black people, I’ve never heard of them.”
Exactly. Imagine how things would changed if blacks stopped protesting injustices and just started writing checks to a black Anti-Defamation League and withholding their money from non-white businesses until justice is served.
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@resw
Breakfast Club “coons”? Coons, really?
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@Afrofem
Really. In the modern sense of “black entertainers that promote ignorance”: http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=cooning
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As a white person I wouldn’t be comfortable using the word “coon”. Just because the Urban dictionary has “legitimized” it doesn’t mean it doesn’t get interpreted as racist and a slight. It is short for racoon right ? What if the Urban diction has chosen “ape” instead. Who writes the Urban dictionary anyway ? White people? It’s a fail.
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@michaeljonbarker
I didn’t reference Urban Dictionary to legitimize anything, rather to show a definition with which I agree. The word (and modern definition) is actually in the vocabulary of many blacks. It’s similar to how the n word has evolved in meaning but is still used by many blacks to the dismay of people like you and Afrofem.
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My position towrds perceived derogatory words is that I call them out if white people use them. If people who aren’t white use them then it’s none of my business as I don’t have the right to interfere in what words non whites want to use.
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@michaeljonbarker
I completely understand and respect your position. I regret I don’t have a better word to describe those people. Although I could say “uncle Tom”, someone would be offended by that too.
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Reblogged this on Mbeti's Blog and commented:
informative
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@resw
Uncle Toms, Toms, Buffoons, Clowns, Sell-outs or Ignoramuses, would all have been better word choices to me. That slur would be offensive to me no matter who uses it; Black, White or Other.
I deeply disagreed with Black Gen Xer’s who thought they could unilaterally redefine racial slurs. Their effort has been an unqualified failure. It has “legitimated” anti-Black slurs to a global audience…and left ugliness to fester on into the future.
By the way, I think the Breakfast Club on air talent was just being polite to HRC. Better to let her talk her silly talk uncontested. She ended up looking worse than them.
Nothing HRC can say will ever erase the “super predator” remark of the 1990’s or her recent “the police are the law” comment.
As a side note: Latinos and Asians consume way more hot sauce than Black people. One of the best selling hot condiments in this country today is Sriracha Sauce…a Vietnamese concoction. Yet, no one ever ridicules the Vietnamese for liking hot, chili infused dishes or condiments.
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From one of its one time horse’s mouth:
http://henrymakow.com/2016/08/My-short-romance-alt-right.html
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@Afrofem
I could use “Uncle Tom” in the future, which is close in definition, but not quite the same. But those other words you listed don’t have nearly the same meaning.
“Their effort has been an unqualified failure. It has “legitimated” anti-Black slurs to a global audience”
Disagree. Whites and others are more fearful than ever of saying the n-word or other former anti-black slurs in the presence of black people, despite the fact that they know black people can do so without the same consequences.
“By the way, I think the Breakfast Club on air talent was just being polite to HRC. ”
And that’s part of the problem I have. Someone who insults you to your face doesn’t deserve your politeness, they deserve to be checked.
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She (Hillary) is lumping all those who oppose her in this group. There very well be some sort of alternative right, but it doesn’t include all alternative news, otherwise you , Abagond, could be loosely compared to it. I think she wants us to believe that anyone who exposes people like Seth Rich, who was obviously murdered after leaking some of the DNC emails to Wikileaks, as a conspiracy kook, who is also racist like David Duke. Don’t fall into that BS strategy. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=teYwi_okC-8)
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Or maybe the conspiracy nuts are the murderers? Unlikely! (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xb_N02-vh8M)
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@resw
“…Whites and others are more fearful than ever of saying the n-word or other former anti-black slurs in the presence of black people, despite the fact that they know black people can do so without the same consequences.”
“Fearful”? I doubt that.
Racist slurs belong to White people. They created those words, they give them power, they teach them to their children. In the present era, those anti-Black slurs are used for cathartic release by people too craven to confront their own wealthy cousins who are dismantling this country brick by brick for fun and profit.
Black people just rent the words. There are definite consequences for Black people who pepper their speech with such ugliness. Black people pay for the “privilege” of using anti-Black slurs with bits of our self-respect, self-esteem and power. We are diminished every time we utter corrosive anti-Black slurs.
I feel the same about slurs directed at other ethnic groups. I do my best to avoid using slurs because they dehumanize both the speaker and the target.
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@Afrofem
“Fearful”? I doubt that.”
OK, then why don’t they still openly call blacks the n-word to their faces?
“”They created those words,”
So what? Someone created “faggot” to mean bundle of twigs, but today most people use it totally differently. How you use a word matters. And there’s a big difference between someone saying, throw the “faggot in the fire pit” and saying to a homosexual “you big faggot”.
“they give them power”
Words only have the power to offend you if you let them. Many blacks call whites “cracka” but that doesn’t offend most white people nearly as much as it does when another white person calls them “white trash”.
“We are diminished every time we utter corrosive anti-Black slurs.”
No, YOU are diminished because YOU give their slurs so much power. Certainly not someone who takes no offense to the slur, redefines it, uses it on his terms and prohibits the slur creators from using it in public.
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Resw said,
“I regret I don’t have a better word to describe those people.”
If these were white people they would be called liberals or Democrats. Your suggesting, because they are Black, that would require a special designation. That make no sense to me. I didn’t watch the video but I’m going to presume that they are Hillary supporters.
Some Blacks support Republicans for class reasons and other Blacks for religious reasons (pro life). That doesn’t mean these same Blacks hold to the same views as Clarence Thomas and on a lot of issues would disagree with his rulings. So calling somebody an “Uncle Tom” or “coon” or whatever doesn’t really tell you anything specific.
The same is true for why Blacks support Hillary or democrats. There area lot of different reasons behind the personal choices people make so finding words to collectivize entire groups, presumes group think, and is what simple minded people do.
I was trying to recall if derogatory slights against white people entailed the descriptions of animals. I don’t remember any but there are plenty of derogatory words whites use against non whites that are tied to what animals look like, act like ect. That’s deliberately dehumanizing at the expense of those when those words are directed at them.
The gay community and some Blacks have “retaken” certain derogatory words as a way of disempowering them. Maybe this is good for society, I don’t know. For me personally certain derogatory words will always be racist and ugly so I will not use them not matter how “accepting” they become in society.
“No, YOU are diminished because YOU give their slurs so much power.”
Really ? That’s your augment ? Whites can call Blacks the “N” word and its Black people who are at fault for giving the “N” word so much power ?
I am a free speech advocate, am skeptical of the lefts obsession over politically correct speech and “safe spaces”. It seems to me a deflection away from getting real changes structurally accomplished within white supremacy. Lets worry about what words we use or what color paint the supremacy structure should be painted when the focus should be on burning the whole thing down.
My point is there is a difference between free speech, politically correct language and straight up racist language meant to maintain power for whites within society.
I want an open society where opposing ideologies can be debated free from political interference. That doesn’t mean that we justify hate speech or condone it but call it out for what it is.
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A lot of the Alt right came out of libertinism or more accurately they were former libertarians who moved in the direction of Trump and the Alt right.
Within libertarian thought their is a spectrum that breaks downinto four generalizations that overlap depending on personal preference. From left to right, the classical liberals, the pragmatists, the purists and the paleo libertarians.
The paleo libertarians include Lew Rockwell who wrote the racist Ron Paul news letters. They are protectionist, closed boarder and where the race realists reside. It is from here that Trump got his libertarian supporters as well as some from the purist wing.
Johnson and Weld are from the classical liberal/pragmatist side.
Jeffery Tucker is a classical liberal and has written extensively against Trump and the Alt right from the beginning. He says don’t underestimate the Alt right as it is a fast growing movement amongst young, educated millennials. The Klan is Christian based, homophobic, less educated and racist. The Alt right is atheist friendly and couldn’t care less about your sexual preference. So their is a more progressive ideology rooted in race realism, nationalism ect that is being birthed out of parts libertarian and conservative thought.
Tucker gave a speech against Trump at Freedom Fest a few months back in Vegas. He was booed and in the question and answer section a person stood up and advocated genocide against Muslims. He literally had to back out of the conference room because of the intense hostility at suggesting that Trump is a fascist.
Tucker is a Capitalist advocate and from those of you on the progressive side his article is worthy of critique. That said its a good read and lays out the split within libertarianism.
https://fee.org/articles/five-differences-between-the-alt-right-and-libertarians/
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@resw
“OK, then why don’t they still openly call blacks the n-word to their faces?”
Certainly not because of fear.
The vast majority of White Americans could care less what Black people think or feel. Any reticence about calling Black people slurs openly have more to do with White self image (“I’m not a racist”) and the abundance of code words such as criminal, thug, welfare dependent, low IQ, and lazy, etc. We are in the era of racism 3.0. “Colorblindness”, code words, microaggressions and negative media imagery are more acceptable than overt displays and in your face slurs.
As Mack Lyons blog header states: DDSS
http://macklyons.blogspot.com/
◘◘◘◘◘◘◘◘◘◘◘◘◘◘◘◘◘◘◘◘◘◘◘◘◘◘◘◘◘◘◘◘◘◘◘◘◘◘◘◘◘◘◘◘◘◘◘◘◘◘◘◘◘◘◘◘◘◘◘◘◘
“No, YOU are diminished because YOU give their slurs so much power. Certainly not someone who takes no offense to the slur, redefines it, uses it on his terms and prohibits the slur creators from using it in public.”
This is not about me, resw. This is about people callous enough to sling dehumanizing slurs around and attempts to gaslight the target(s) of the slur with weak arguments about taking “no offense”.
Perhaps you forgot that you were not at Stormfront or some other openly White Supremacist site where your casual injection of an anti-Black slur would face no challenge or consequence. You were mistaken.
I respect free speech and to me free speech is also responsible speech——speech with consequences. As far as I’m concerned only trolls come to this forum spewing insidious slurs. If you want express yourself like a troll, you will be treated like a troll.
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@ Michael Jon Barker
“I was trying to recall if derogatory slights against white people entailed the descriptions of animals. I don’t remember any but there are plenty of derogatory words whites use against non whites that are tied to what animals look like, act like ect. That’s deliberately dehumanizing at the expense of those when those words are directed at them. “
That’s a very good point, MJB. I also notice derogatory terms for women also involve dehumanizing animal words.
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The Washington Post just ran a piece that goes deeper into what I was laying out above. The paleolibertarian influence within the Alt Right.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/posteverything/wp/2016/09/02/where-did-donald-trump-get-his-racialized-rhetoric-from-libertarians/
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Reddit list of Alt Right sites. Know your enemy.
https://www.reddit.com/r/altright/comments/4dgf5j/list_of_alt_right_websites/
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No sir, they are almost, all racist to a one. Especially the comments sections. But so what? That doesn’t make them any less good to read! I especially love the movie reviews from Counter-Currents, as well as s their essays on Nietzsche and Spengler. MyPostingCareer has some good cultural stuff too.
What are some of your favorites?
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It also confuses genotype with phebotype
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One of the stranger things about types like Dota is this. How come they always claim to be of higher IQs than us Nigras, yet yet we always see thru them in about 30 seconds?
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Abagond, do Chimpire next. It’s usually a short bus ride from all-night to them.
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@ satanforce
LOL. So true!
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@Afrofem
“Any reticence about calling Black people slurs openly have more to do with White self image (“I’m not a racist”) and the abundance of code words such as criminal, thug, welfare dependent, low IQ, and lazy, etc.”
And that is your opinion, with which I fully disagree. Since open racists in America are also reticent about calling blacks slurs to their faces. your reasoning doesn’t apply.
“This is not about me, resw.”
Oh it is since you don’t speak for all black Americans. It’s your opinion and nothing else.
“As far as I’m concerned only trolls come to this forum spewing insidious slurs.”
Right, I’m a troll because you disagree with what I say. That’s real adult of you.
@Michael Jon Barker
“Your suggesting, because they are Black, that would require a special designation. ”
No, that’s not what I’m suggesting. But feel free to continue speaking on my behalf. I’m talking about behaviour, not skin colour. I don’t judge people on the basis of their skin colour like many of you do, rather their deeds.
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I always lol at these “honest reflection” type of exhortations. Like the Buzzfeed one the other day. Usually it means some sellout (or buy-in) telling the natives how good they have it and that their bad behaviour is what’s holding them down. Yes. Just behave better and appreciate what u have. That’ll fix everything.
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@ resw
If you, Fan, and Afrofem had been having this discussion in real life face-to-face, would you have used the word “c**ns”?
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@Solitaire
Yes.
What a shame people care more about a word that I and many people use to refer to disgusting behaviour instead of the actual disgusting behaviour. #smdh
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@Satanforce
You are on quite a roll today!
I love this quote: “…they always claim to be of higher IQs than us Nigras, yet we always see thru them in about 30 seconds?”
Priceless.
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@ resw
You remind me of men in my childhood neighborhood who when they had arguments that lacked merit or lacked “game” would puff out their chests, increase the volume of their voices and back away slowly to avoid public dishonor. We called that behavior “woofing”.
resw, “woof” away…preferably backing up all the way to your favorite White Supremacist site where everyone slings anti-Black slurs. You will be right at home at such a site.
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@Afrofem: I have noticed with the younger generations that word c**ns is used all over social media to describe black people who are deemed sell outs and Uncle Toms. It’s used mostly by consciousness and Afrocentrism. I have used it my self and it is rather harsh. Your post comments between you and resw give me pause. Words are powerful entities.
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@Mary Burrell
People like resw see the use of those slurs on social media without understanding the full meaning of them. They don’t know what it feels like to be on the receiving end of a slur and think to themselves I can use this word anywhere I please.
I know lots of slurs too. I don’t use them face to face or even write them on forums because I think to myself, how would I feel if I were on the receiving end of that slur?
Words have power.
Words have consequences.
Words should be used responsibly.
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@Afrofem
Of course I didn’t expect your emotional drivel to make any sense. But it’s only a distraction because you’re what we call a house negro. Just like Bill Cosby, you want to control our speech because you mistakenly believe that you speak on behalf of black people and that if blacks “speak right” ole massa will respect you more. You’re part of the problem.
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@ resw
So you’re not one of those whites who is “more fearful than ever of saying the n-word or other former [sic] anti-black slurs in the presence of black people, despite the fact that they know black people can do so without the same consequences.”
And the only consequence I see here would be a simple apology to Afrofem for using a racial slur she finds offensive.
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@resw
Don’t back up too far…you might fall over a cliff.
LOL!
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@Solitaire
She doesn’t deserve an apology and I don’t owe her anything.
@Afrofem
Back up from what?
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I love that part about “black grievance mongering”. It tells a lot about his thougt process. These guys don’t even need to show their hand anymore.
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” We called that behavior “woofing”. ”
@ Afrofem
Back in my day we called it, “wolfing” and the “selling of wolf tickets.”
It was a sort of test, or threat or a dare or a promise… that was often (but not always) BS. It was usually a male gender thing, except when girls were trying to be down.
I believe this practice largely subsided when folks began fighting with weapons more dangerous than fists.
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@ resw
So then you won’t mind if I call you a racist.
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@Solitaire
No don’t mind. You can call me a lobster too while you’re at it. Neither offends me because they don’t apply.
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@Fan
“Woofing” was the Southern pronounciation of “Wolfing”. Same game.
It was hilarious because sometimes both parties were “woofing”/”wolfing” and doing their best to back down with dignity. LOL!
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@resw
“…you want to control our speech…”
Who on earth is “our”? Who constitutes the group that I can magically control through the internet?
resw, I’m going to make the broad assumption that you are an adult male. Your ethnicity is immaterial to me.
The main thrust of my comments to you is that words have weight and meaning and I think more care should go into word choice. I think you were careless with the use of that dehumanizing slur.
Mary Burrell gave me a lot to think about and put some things in context with her comment, “…I have noticed with the younger generations that word c**ns is used all over social media to describe black people who are deemed sell outs and Uncle Toms.” (Thanks, Mary.)
I also thought about Solitaire’s comment about face to face interaction vs. a nice, safe forum like Abagond’s Cafe or social media. I’ve had that slur used to my face by flaming White racists, so I respond to it with a level of vehemence that might be alien to you. Maybe it is one of several slurs that you casually toss about without thinking. To me, it is a whole other animal altogether (pun intended).
No, you don’t “owe” me anything, but your careless use of anti-Black slurs will not go unchallenged by me.
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@ Afrofem
“I also thought about Solitaire’s comment about face to face interaction”
Many years ago I accidentally used that word in reference to the actual animals in a conversation with a black friend. I will never forget the look of shock and hurt that flashed through his eyes, so quick that I think it was an involuntary micro-expression in the split second before he put it into the context of what we were discussing. The look in his eyes told me that word had been used to hurt him, and I had inadvertently opened that wound.
It feels awkward to me to say “raccoon” but better that than to cause pain to someone I like and whose friendship I value.
I don’t exactly see how “house negro” was appropriate, either, and judging from what I’ve seen of your commentary so far, it’s also laughably inaccurate.
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@NameItAs
Alex Jones hates the Civil Rights Movement and called MLK Jr a communist. If he isn’t racist, okay whatever…
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@ Solitaire
Good points. Words can have different meanings to different people. Words that are neutral to me may cause a firestorm in someone else.
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@Afrofem
“Who constitutes the group that I can magically control through the internet?”
No one. I didn’t say say you can control anyone, rather “you want to”. If not, then stop trying. No I’m not rescinding my choice of words or making any apologies.
“resw, I’m going to make the broad assumption that you are an adult male. Your ethnicity is immaterial to me.”
I expect nothing less than assumptions from someone like you. I certainly don’t expect any facts.
“The main thrust of my comments to you is that words have weight and meaning and I think more care should go into word choice.”
And the only reason you take offense is because you’re a little coonish yourself. Gotta act right fo massa!
“No, you don’t “owe” me anything, but your careless use of anti-Black slurs will not go unchallenged by me.”
I never used any anti-Black slurs. Shows what a liar you are. I called coons coons. You’re just offended because it fits the bill.
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I’m a grievance monger so shoot me! On second thought don’t some lunatic might take me seriously!
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@ Afrofem
” Words that are neutral to me may cause a firestorm in someone else.”
Whereas resw seems to be insisting that the word must be neutral to everyone because he says so. Since when was “c**n” not an anti-black slur? Did I miss that memo?
The younger generation may throw it around more casually, but whenever they do a Wall of Oppression event, that’s one of the words they always write on the wall.
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@Solitaire
“Since when was “c**n” not an anti-black slur? Did I miss that memo?”
No you didn’t miss that memo. resw is just “woofing” loudly so no one notices how he is still backing toward that cliff edge. LOL!
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“Since when was “c**n” not an anti-black slur? Did I miss that memo?”—-From what I have observed it depends on the generation and who is using it. Older generations may respond to it with upset because it was used as a anti-black racial slur from whites. Today the word has little effect on younger generation blacks who use it to describe uncle tom’s or sellouts.
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@solitaire
“Whereas resw seems to be insisting that the word must be neutral to everyone because he says so. ”
Of course I never said nor implied that. But feel free to continue ignorantly speaking on my behalf.
“Since when was “c**n” not an anti-black slur?”
FYI, it was not an “anti-black slur” when white Americans used it to refer to Whig Party members or white “frontiersmen”. Nor was it an “anti-black slur” in the context in which I used it.
“The younger generation may throw it around more casually”
Since you don’t know what my age is in relation to yours, it’s better not to make ignorant assumptions.
@Afrofem
The only thing I’m backing from is an agreement about your personal opinion or its relevance.
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@ resw
“Of course I never said nor implied that. But feel free to continue ignorantly speaking on my behalf.”
Please note that I said “resw seems,” not is. It was not an attempt to speak on your behalf but an opinion. And my opinion was based on statements you made that certainly seemed to me to imply just that.
“Nor was it an “anti-black slur” in the context in which I used it.”
Would/have you use it to describe anyone but black people in that context?
“Since you don’t know what my age is in relation to yours, it’s better not to make ignorant assumptions.”
Ms Mary brought up “the younger generation” above and I was adding my thoughts and observations on that generation, not directly commenting about you. I’ve always assumed you’re pushing 40.
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@Solitaire
“And my opinion was based on statements you made that certainly seemed to me to imply just that.”
Too bad no statements I made implied that. So the opinion you formed is wholly baseless.
“Would/have you use it to describe anyone but black people in that context?”
What an asinine question since it has nothing to do with being “anti-black”.
Is Afrofem’s idiotic comment about “woofing” anti-male because she would not have use it to describe anyone but males in the context in which she used it?
Anti-black means “opposed or hostile to black people”. Nowhere in the context of my use of the word was “opposed or hostile to black people”.
“I’ve always assumed you’re pushing 40”
And your assumption would be wrong.
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@ resw
“And your assumption would be wrong.”
Ok, so maybe you’re pushing 60 instead. Or maybe you’re 30. Whatever. My point was that you were wrong in your assumption that I intended my remark about college-age kids to apply to you. Whatever age you are, I assume you’re well past those years and old enough to know better.
I’m not interested in playing “competing definitions” of words with you. That’s a zero-sum game and a derailment that will soon devolve into arguing which dictionary or website is a valid source.
But keep insisting on your right to use words that many people find hurtful because your intent trumps the impact. Have fun.
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@solitaire
“Ok, so maybe you’re pushing 60 instead. ”
No. How about stop making idiotic assumptions?
“Whatever age you are, I assume you’re well past those years and old enough to know better.”
That’s the problem with people like you. Someone told you that you know what’s “better” when you don’t. It’s your opinion and nothing else.
“I’m not interested in playing “competing definitions” of words with you.”
Then don’t play it. This discussion devolved because Afrofem decided to derail things by making a fuss about what I said out of context.
It didn’t involve you in the first place, and it doesn’t involve you now. So now that you’re complaining about being involved is laughable.
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@ resw
“So now that you’re complaining about being involved is laughable.”
Where did I complain about being involved?
You’re so desperate to win this argument that you’d box your own shadow. Maybe you’d like to double-down on your stance about words and call me “coonish” and use fake slave language (“Massa”) to mock me like you did to Afrofem. Or, since I have made it absolutely clear on this forum from day one that I’m white, perhaps you would like to call me cracker or ofay — or “coon” in the white frontierman’s sense of the early 1800s.
Knock yourself out. Have fun. Make sure to copy and paste it for your buddies over at Stormfront and Chimpout so they can have a giggle. But I’m done here.
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“Coon” is an offensive anti-Black slur. That is true no matter the ethnicity of the user, their generation or “context”. It is nearly on par with the n-word in its negative connotations and power.
The argument that Black people under 30 have re-purposed it and it’s okay to use it “internally” to describe other Black people is just as shallow as the argument for the continued use by Black people of the n-word (changing the spelling does not make it less noxious).
Anti-Black slurs belong to White people. They created those words, they give them power, they teach them to their children. Black people just rent anti-Black slurs.
A simple test of whether a a given word is a slur is how you would react in situations such as:
▶︎Your boss addresses you with that word in front of your co-workers in a meeting.
►Your child comes home from school and tells you that the teacher called him/her that word in class.
►You wake up one morning with that word scrawled on your front door.
►You find your car spray painted with that word (and the word itself upsets you more than the vandalism).
“Coon” is so popular an anti-Black slur that many Whites, Asians and Latinos flocked to a sub-Reddit called “Coontown” specifically to put down Black people.
Only after concerted action and much negative publicity did Reddit shut the booming hate site down in 2015. Related sub-Reddits included:
http://gawker.com/reddit-finally-bans-coontown-1722332877
To me, it is intellecually dishonest to claim that “coon” is not an anti-Black slur or that a younger Black generation has taken the sting out of the word. It is just as potent a word of hate today as it was 100 years ago. Instead of re-purposing toxic anti-Black slurs, it might be more constructive for Black people to create our own words.
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@Solitaire
“You’re so desperate to win this argument that you’d box your own shadow.”
I can’t help that I’ve refuted every idiotic assumption and flimsy argument you tossed out.
“Where did I complain about being involved?”
When you said “I’m not interested in playing “competing definitions” of words with you.” That’s what this was about from the beginning and if you didn’t want to be involved, then why are you still here?
“Or, since I have made it absolutely clear on this forum from day one that I’m white, perhaps you would like to call me cracker or ofay”
And there you have it. An admission that this is all about baiting me into call you an “anti-white” slur. The devil always shows his tail.
@Afrofem
“To me, it is intellecually dishonest to claim that “coon” is not an anti-Black slur or that a younger Black generation has taken the sting out of the word. ”
And no one did that. Either you have the reading comprehension of a third grader or you’re a liar or both.
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@ resw
I wasn’t going to comment here again, but I have to refute this:
“And there you have it. An admission that this is all about baiting me into call you an “anti-white” slur. The devil always shows his tail.”
How interesting that you constantly complain I’m misinterpreting your words but then come up with this huge misinterpretation on baseless assumptions and an inability to understand sarcasm.
I don’t need to bait you to call me anything demeaning. You’ve already used the terms ignorant, idiotic, and assinine in reference to me, and you’ve called Afrofem coonish and a house Negro. You imply that you’re of a mature age, perhaps even older than me, but you resort to name-calling like a child.
If my statement in question contained anything remotely resembling bait, it was concerning your refusal to admit your race, instead of constantly dancing around it. But it was more a tweak of your nose than bait, because I knew it wouldn’t be enough to drag that admission out of you.
I couldn’t care less what you call me. It’s obvious that you like to use words to hurt people and that name-calling and insults are an essential part of your style of debate.
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@ resw
Namecalling is a poor substitute for a cogent argument, but you seem to need cover for your retreat. LOL!
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@Afrofem
“Namecalling is a poor substitute for a cogent argument”
That must explain why you were the first one to call names! How soon you forgot (or lied).
And If you’re not reading on a third-grade level or are a liar, then what else could possibly explain your continuous misinterpretations ?
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@Afrofem
Not to get into this, but….
“A simple test of whether a a given word is a slur is how you would react in situations such as:”—That test does not really work well because of all the situations you mentioned, the younger generation blacks would not feel affected by C**n the way they are n**ger.
I have never heard the word in public, but have been called such online and I wanted to laugh more than anything. In my mind and many others it simply registers as a sell out. Sure we need to create our terms, but we can’t just ignore what people think when they hear it and expect them to see it as anti-black because we feel they should. It’s not intellectually dishonest for them not to feel the sting the way others do. It simply is how they feel. Are they wrong to not be angry at the term c**n?
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@ Sharina
I understand that you might feel that way if you have only experienced that slur online, in rented form from other Black people. It might seem downright innocuous to you in that context.
Yet, if that slur were directed at your children by a teacher or a boss or co-worker used it to publicly castigate you the full sting of the word might become apparent to you.
With respect to you, I hope that never happens. That word is still very much in active use by White Supremacists, so that possibility still exists.
I know we might have to agree to disagree on this issue. Thank you for your input.
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Correction to above. It should read: “…this huge misinterpretation made on baseless assumptions…”
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resw stated:
“I never used any anti-Black slurs. […] I called coons coons.”
This Abagond article from 2008 goes into some depth about the “coon” stereotype. A brief summary:
A modern day iteration of a coon:
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@Afrofem
Just having it happen online is not the only reason why I don’t see it as you do. It has a lot to do with application. Blacks of my generation or younger have only seen the word applied to those that are sellouts, so if a person called them that they would not really be upset because they would not see themself as such.
Another thing is whites don’t use it as much. Sure I have seen it in online forums, but whites never get the response they want so they are not quick to use it. Besides that whites have other ways of presenting the characteristics of a c**not stereotype without even using the word.
As to my daughter, I am bothered by name calling in her direction period but that word does not conjur up the same feelings as other words would. A young white girl calls her macaroni hair and my daughters responses to her has been priceless while throwing her natural “macaroni” hair all in her face. If my daughter did not take it well then I may be more upset because I would want the little girl punished.
It is okay for us to agree to disagree on this. I understand that there are blacks who are hurt by the word and it is their right. We all engage in a difference of experiences that shape us.
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@sharinalr
“It has a lot to do with application.”
Thank you, and that’s been my point, which applies to any word, not just this word. Like the word “right”. It’s a big difference between saying this is my “left and my right” and “I have a right to live”.
This is something we learned in elementary school, but Afrofem must have missed those lessons.
“Blacks of my generation or younger have only seen the word applied to those that are sellouts”
I don’t understand it as just a sellout. The way I used it was as an enforcer of certain “black” stereotypes for the benefit of whites. In the way people like Spike Lee use it:
(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ciwhh3fB6vE)
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@Sharina
Received and acknowledged.
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@Solitaire
“I wasn’t going to comment here again”
Again, if you don’t want to be involved why are you still here?
“How interesting that you constantly complain I’m misinterpreting your words”
How interesting that that never happened. All I did was correct you multiple times, and rightfully so.
“You’ve already used the terms ignorant, idiotic, and assinine in reference to me”
And again you’re wrong. I referenced to your “idiotic assumptions”, “ignorant assumptions” and “asinine question”, and gave good reasons why they were idiotic, ignorant and asinine, FYI.
“You imply that you’re of a mature age, perhaps even older than me”
That’s just the idiotic assumption you made. But please continue making idiotic assumptions, because clearly, based on your comments, you judge people based on race and age, not me.
“but you resort to name-calling like a child”
I’m afraid Afrofem and you beat me to the punch, so I guess that makes both of you children.
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@Abagond
That masthead image of the Alternative Right blog is hilarious…and indicative of their attitudes: “heroic” violence and showing their backsides to everyone else.
(chuckle)
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@ resw
You could’ve saved space and just said: “Nyah Nyah Nyaaah Nyah Nyah.” That’s all your argument amounts to. 🙂
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@Solitaire
I guess you’re having the same reading comprehension problems as Afrofem.
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@ resw
Nope. Take away all your unsupported opinions along the lines of “that’s an idiotic assumption” & “you’re a liar” & “too bad I’m right,” and what’s left of your argument? Nothing much of substance.
You call c**ns c**ns, I call whiny babies whiny babies.
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@Solitaire
“Take away all your unsupported opinions along the lines of “that’s an idiotic assumption” & “you’re a liar” & “too bad I’m right,””
Unless you and Afrofem are the same person, I never called you a liar.
But you’ve just demonstrated that you are a liar since my opinions were supported and I never said “too bad I’m right”.
“I call whiny babies whiny babies.”
I’m sure you do because that’s how adults behave.
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OMG, this is still going on? I keep thinking it is about to die of natural causes, but it has been days now.
When I get a chance I am going to delete most of this unenlightening,way-off-topic back-and-forth.
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@abagond
The silver lining is Afrofem and Solitaire provided perfect examples of the alt right’s problem with the “PC police”.
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@resw
I understand. I know for me I have never heard the word used other than for sellouts and once an uncle used it towards a white co-worker.
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@ Sharina
I don’t doubt your experiences. The thing is, I’ve heard white people use that word amongst themselves all my life, and I’ve never once heard them use it to mean sellout.
It’s possible that I’ve seen white people use it to mean sellout on the internet and not realized they were white. It may even be possible that there are young white people now who honestly don’t know the word ever had any other meaning.
Plenty of the younger white generation do know, though, and some of them still use it that way — mostly amongst themselves, but there was an incident on campus a couple years ago where a white 18-year-old used that word in a racist tirade along with other slurs that were unquestionably anti-black.
It hasn’t been completely redefined in the white community, not by a long shot.
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@ resw
I’m still interested in understanding your position on this, and if you will allow me, I would like to disengage from the current sniping and take a few steps back to an earlier part of this disagreement. Of course, you don’t have to respond if you don’t want to; it is a simple request.
Upthread I asked you:
“If you, Fan, and Afrofem had been having this discussion in real life face-to-face, would you have used the word “c**ns”?”
And your answer was:
“Yes.”
To follow up from this, I’m curious to know — if theoretically this discussion had happened face-to-face, and Afrofem had voiced to you the same objections that she wrote here, would your responses had been exactly the same?
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@Solitaire
How whites use it is of little concern to me. I know their usage is pretty much going to be based on an anti-black regimen because that is how they were taught to apply it. What I spoke on was how blacks use it because for them the application is different.
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@ Sharina
Is Resw black or white? Has he ever said anywhere?
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@ Solitaire
I can’t say to be sure. He comes and goes, but I don’t believe he is white and that is based on many other comments he has made on this blog.
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just a random thought….coconut and uncle wong are also terms that refer to sell outs.
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@ Sharina
I’m not sure, either, but he dances around it. Some of his comments don’t sound white, others do. Not just on this thread but elsewhere. He keeps people guessing, which raises red flags for me.
I would bow out of this argument if I knew for sure he was black as it isn’t my place. If he’s white, that’s another story.
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@Solitaire
Resw is a long time commenter. Here before me I believe. Only thing I can recommend is looking at old threads to determine. Most encounters I have had with him has been pretty pro-black. To be honest I am not sure if he is a she either.
Some commenters prefer to remain anonymous about their race, so he is not the first.
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“Some commenters prefer to remain anonymous about their race, so he is not the first.”
If people don’t self identify I don’t try to guess. Most people who wish to remain anonymous are worried about being identified and having that effect their job or being trolled, hacked or stalked. Abagond thinks that people are more honest if they post anonymously. I use my real name and understand the risks particularly when it comes to being hacked. I just never got around to making up a handle and it was easier just to sign in with F.B.
You can tell easily enough if someone who is white is pretending to be Black ect. That’s happened a few times on this blog. Most white commenters here who post regularly have a partner who isn’t white so their is a personal connection that goes beyond an idiological stance against racism. That doesn’t mean that all are anti racist and some like Randy were intellectual race realists. It’s been awhile but their were some white racists who would come here to sharpen their arguments so to speak. Some white men in interacial relationships are blind to their own racism.
In regards to the word “coon” I’ve never heard it before in real life though I have heard the “N” word plenty. I haven’t run into it on FB either and I come across racists all the time. Why bother with “coon” when you can straight up use the “N” word.
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Thank you, sharinalr.
I don’t know why Solitaire is so obsessed with judging on the basis of race and age.
It’s a shame we have to constantly get derailed with tangential issues like a word and my identity.
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No way in hell is resw a he.
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The good thing about keeping your identity private is that it exposes the racists like Solitaire and the sexists like gro jo.
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“resw
The good thing about keeping your identity private is that it exposes the racists like Solitaire and the sexists like gro jo.” Oh, bs.
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@ resw
“I don’t know why Solitaire is so obsessed with judging on the basis of race and age.”
I don’t really care at this point. The main question I have is whether you — and let’s just clarify now that means you, Resw, as a genderless, raceless, ageless internet entity — see any difference between a black person calling a black person “c**nish” and “house Negro” and a white person calling a black person “c**nish” and “house Negro”?
Is there, in your opinion, any difference at all?
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@ Kiwi
Thanks, but at this point I’m truly interested about Resw’s thinking on this matter just from intellectual curiosity. I’m no longer interested in debating or challenging Resw, much less dredging up old quarrels. Of course, Resw doesn’t have to respond as I can’t force anyone to do anything they don’t want.
Please don’t construe this to mean that I agree with or condone the use of “yellow” as a synonym for Asians. I’m pretty sure you already know that I don’t, since we touched on that tangentially in another thread not too long ago.
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@Kiwi
“Given that resw uses the word “yellow” to disparage Asians”
I don’t use the word yellow to disparage Asians. I used it to refer to Asians when speaking to you. And if you don’t like the word yellow then don’t use the word black to refer to Africans. Black certainly has more negative connotations than the colour yellow.
“it doesn’t come as a surprise to me that he would use “coon” to disparage Blacks.”
It should come as a surprise since I never did that. But it is no surprise to see you lying yet again.
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@Kiwi
You lie about as much as your hero Peter Lie-ang. And just so you, you don’t speak on behalf of Asians as much as you think you do , and I don’t fear you or any other Asian. I’ll use the term “yellow” in reference to Asians as much as I please.
If you don’t like it, then you should stop being the hypocrite that you have proven to be by calling Africans “black” since many African Americans don’t like that term either.
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@Kiwi
“That is news to me.”
Your ignorance is no surprise to me.
And it will also be news to you that just as many people of African descent do not take offense to the word “black”, many people of Asian descent do not take offense to the term “yellow”.
Your feelings and opinions, of which I have no regard, are not representative of the people of the entire continent, in which there are people of many ethnicities who refer to themselves as brown, black, white and yes, even yellow.
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@Kiwi
“And yet you use the word “Black””
Yes, unlike you, I don’t find colours offensive.
“I encourage you to call Asians “yellow” to their face and see how they react but I know you won’t because you’re too much of a coward.”
You really are struggling. You said that already, and my response is still the same.
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@Kiwi
“Most people, like you, use “yellow” to describe Asians contemptuously”
Just when I thought you couldn’t be any more foolish for speaking on behalf of billions of Asians, you have exceeded my expectations for thinking you know the intentions of “most people”.
“You would never call an Asian “yellow” to his face and you know I’m right about you.”
In your mind you must think repeating the same thing with slightly different wording somehow supports strengthens your argument.
I don’t know how you live your life, but I don’t go around calling people by any colour. I address people by their names.
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@Kiwi
“So I am right about you. ”
No, wrong as usual. I simply have no reason whatsoever to call anyone a colour, be it black, white, brown or yellow. Unlike you I treat people as individuals, not as a colour.
“because you know it’s offensive”
Neither I nor many Asians find what you find offensive. Get over it. No one elected you spokesperson for Asians.
“If you dislike an Asian, you just call them “yellow” in your head.”
Sorry, you’re going to have to do better than feigning knowledge of what’s in my head to prove a point.
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The Atlantic interviews the creator of Pepe the Frog. The image reminds me of a troll which the Alt Right sub culture is famous for.
“How artist Matt Furie feels about his creation, Pepe the Frog, becoming a favored symbol of white nationalists and Trump supporters.”
http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2016/09/its-not-easy-being-green/499892/
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Abagond,
“When I get a chance I am going to delete most of this unenlightening,way-off-topic back-and-forth.”
Agreed.
Their are threads for “yellowface” and now for “coon”.Keep this thread about the Alt Right.
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@Kiwi
Since none of that actually happened, your weak attempts to label me racist have been an utter failure.
And since you hate the colour yellow, I’m sure you sent Frank Wu a nasty letter calling him a racist for referring to your hero Peter Liang as yellow.
@michaeljonbarker
What a hypocrite you are given the fact you participated with Afrofem in derailing this discussion to police my use of “coons”.
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@resw
I made three comments to clarify your expression and then I stopped. Lmao
There is a difference between winning an argument and critical thinking.
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@michaeljonbarker
“I made three comments to clarify your expression”
Three irrelevant comments having nothing to do with the topic, except serving as an example of behaviour the alt-right figureheads say they despise.
But I didn’t expect you to own up to the evident part you played in derailing things.
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I was unaware of how “coon” was used and not familiar with the history behind it. So yes it seemed appropriate to question your use of it but it didn’t take 100 comments to get my skeptisim across.
The Alt Right attacks PC culture and trolls people like Leslie Jones, not because she represents “PC culture” but because she is Black. They publicly “lynched” her soley because of the color of her skin. They are evil and disgusting and the worst of humanity.
The people who do these sorts of things are no different then those whites who murdered Black people in public back when lynching were common.
Today it’s done on Twitter, on Facebook ect largely anonymously by cowards. Same evil.
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^^^Sounds like the alt-right has a lot of time on their hands to be trolling Leslie. I’m curious on why they are attacking her so vehemently? The comments and actions towards her are nasty.
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I think the term “yellow” is something that Asians might use to refer to themselves, especially with respect to interracial relations that include white and black.
I cannot think of any circumstance where an Asian would find it appropriate for a non-Asian to address Asians as someone “yellow”.
“Yellow” is not a neutral term in the USA (at least not like the terms “white” and “black”). It is used in conjunction with negative terms, eg, Yellow Peril.
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@jefe
“I cannot think of any circumstance where an Asian would find it appropriate for a non-Asian to address Asians as someone “yellow”.”
And I can’t think of any circumstance whatsoever where anyone would address someone as a colour as opposed to their own name.
“Yellow” is not a neutral term in the USA ”
That is just your opinion.
“It is used in conjunction with negative terms”
And so is black, but only to a much, much greater extent: , black plague, black death, blackmail, blackballed, blacklisted, etc.
And unlike “yellow”, the word black itself has several negative definitions like “characterized by tragic or disastrous events; causing despair or pessimism, full of gloom and misery”.
So hopefully we can agree to disagree and stop allowing Kiwi to derail every thread to the same manner.
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@resw..
Please read Jefe’s anti black comment on the post ”Aaron Mak” addressed to me.. Tell me what you think. I which I could write in Arabic, I will very much love to response to him/her in a language I feel comfortable with.
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@ resw
Are there any words that are off-limits? Any that you find so offensive as not to use them? Or all words equal and to be used as much as you please?
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@Rabab
Your English is fine! That said, I do not think either jefe or his comment to you were “anti-black.”
However, I totally agree with you that his defense of kiwi’s clearly “anti-black” comments is absurd.
@Solitaire
For the nth time, it is a fact that the same word can have different meanings in different contexts, and I believe in freedom of speech, which used to be a constitutional right in the USA.
My, how easy it is to see why the ALT RIGHT figureheads have such a problem with your type.
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““Yellow” is not a neutral term in the USA (at least not like the terms “white” and “black”). It is used in conjunction with negative terms, eg, Yellow Peril.”
@jefe
And BLACK isn’t?? Is English your primary language???
black-sheep
blacklist
blackmale
blackballed
blackface
blackened
blackest
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@ resw
It was just a question. I was interested in learning your thinking in more detail, not in attacking you. I was curious to know what lines, if any, you yourself draw: whether or not there are any words you would find objectionable if directed towards you, if you believe words have no power, what balance you place on the use of a word by a speaker and its interpretation by the hearer (which ties in with the multiple definitions; how does one convey accurately the definition in use and how does one respond if the hearer interprets it in using a different definition), whether you place any limits on the right to free speech or none at all.
I also have a right to free speech. Please stop trying to police what I say. I am allowed to say these things and to ask questions if I please.
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@Solitaire
“Please stop trying to police what I say.”
While it’s flattering you’re taking a page from my book, unlike you, I don’t go around telling people which words they should or should not use.
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@ resw
“While it’s flattering you’re taking a page from my book, unlike you, I don’t go around telling people which words they should or should not use.”
I beg to differ. You don’t like it that I express my opinions about words other people use. I can’t force anyone to use or not use a word. I can only present my argument and see if it sways their opinion. I do have a right to present my opinions and arguments, which you have tried to shut down. At this point I’m not even trying to sway your opinion but only am interested in further exploring your stance, a conversation which you apparently do not wish to have — which of course is your right.
“My, how easy it is to see why the ALT RIGHT figureheads have such a problem with your type.”
Why should I care what a bunch of reprehensible racists think of me? The Alt-Right already considers me a race traitor due to how I choose to live my life and whom I choose to love. I could defend their right to use “non-PC” language until the cows came home and it would do nothing to change the fact that the Alt-Right is always going to have problems with me because I don’t uphold their valued white supremacy or the purity of the white race in either my public or private lives.
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@ Rabab
Both Kiwi and jefe have identified themselves as male in the past.
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@michaeljonbarker
There is a difference between winning an argument and critical thinking.
Great point!
Continuing to gnaw on an old bone is not the same as winning an argument.
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the white race matters, and civilisation is precious.
The Alt-Right is so unoriginal and anxious.
Civilization was not so “precious” when their ancestors trashed other societies from the Songhay in West Africa to the Aztecs in Mexico to the Tamil Kingdoms in Southern India.
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@ Abagond
“When I get a chance I am going to delete most of this unenlightening,way-off-topic back-and-forth.”
This is of course your decision to make, but Resw has tied it back to the Alt-Right topic in a manner that I find convincing.
It is true that some comments devolved to unenlightening back-and-forth (including, regrettably, some of mine), but I don’t see that it was any worse than the bickering between Kiwi and Sharina that spread over four different threads last night.
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Afrofem said,
“Civilization was not so “precious” when their ancestors trashed other societies from the Songhay in West Africa to the Aztecs in Mexico to the Tamil Kingdoms in Southern India.”
The Western Empire is made up of masters and soldiers. Today the masters are made up of Corperations and Banks and the American military maintains “peace” through out the world.
“The regeneration of the inferior or degenerate races, by the superior races is part of the providential order of things for humanity. . . . Regere imperio populos is our vocation. Pour forth this all-consuming activity onto countries, which, like China, are crying aloud for foreign conquest. Turn the adventurers who disturb European society into a ver sacrum, a horde like those of the Franks, the Lombards, or the Normans, and every man will be in his right role. Nature has made a race of workers, the Chinese race, who have wonderful manual dexterity, and almost no sense of honour; govern them with justice, levying from them, in return for the blessing of such a government, an ample allowance for the conquering race, and they will be satisfied; a race of tillers of the soil, the Negro; treat him with kindness and humanity, and all will be as it should; a race of masters and soldiers, the European race. . . . Let each do what he is made for, and all will be well.”
La Réforme intellectuelle et morale
Joseph-Ernest Renan
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@michaeljonbarker
Though written in 1871, Renan’s European/White Supremacist vision is still very much alive today.
MJB, thanks for the quote.
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@Afrofem,
It confirms Abagond’s three pillar theory, land, labor and perpetual war as well as fits the header to this thread.
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Solitaire
Abagond made that note to you guys prior to the back and forth with me and Kiwi.
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@ Sharina
I know it was beforehand, but then when you and Kiwi were arguing, the similarities struck me and so I made the comparison. If you feel I was at fault or mistaken in that comparison, please let me know.
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Solitaire
I don’t think you are at fault, but I, as should you, realize that if he wants to delete something he will. Heck he could delete the back and forth with kiwi and I later down the line. It’s cool though. Some had value, but a great deal did not. Those without value need to be deleted.
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@ Sharina
Fair enough. I do realize Abagond can delete whatever he wants. He could shut down and erase the whole blog tomorrow if he so desires. I was making an appeal for a certain course of action, and if he doesn’t think that appeal has merit, he’ll go ahead and delete it all. I know that.
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@ resw
”The silver lining is Afrofem and Solitaire provided perfect examples of the alt right’s problem with the ‘PC police‘.”
”Three irrelevant comments having nothing to do with the topic, except serving as an example of behaviour the alt-right figureheads say they despise.”
”My, how easy it is to see why the ALT RIGHT figureheads have such a problem with your type.”
Why did you think citing the Alt-Right’s opposition to “political correctness” would add weight to your argument?
Did you not read Abagond’s post at the top of this thread?
Or is your reading comprehension so poor that you thought Abagond was praising the Alt-Right and holding the figureheads up as people whose good opinion we should all crave?
Or did you get so caught up in “tangential issues like a word” that you forgot the Alt-Right’s “disgusting” positions on more substantial issues concerning race?
Because it is curious that you brought up the Alt-Right in support of your position not once, not twice, but three times, like you were scoring a major point.
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@Solitaire
“Or is your reading comprehension so poor that you thought Abagond was praising the Alt-Right and holding the figureheads up as people whose good opinion we should all crave?”
If you could read, in no instance was that done.
“Because it is curious that you brought up the Alt-Right in support of your position not once, not twice, but three times, like you were scoring a major point.”
My what an imagination you have, since that never happened. Clearly my attempts to steer this conversation back on topic were an utter failure since you continue to derail.
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@ resw
Concerning the topic of this post, the Alt-Right, you said to me:
“My, how easy it is to see why the ALT RIGHT figureheads have such a problem with your type.”
In reply, I asked you a question concerning the Alt-Right (the topic of this post) which you still have not answered:
“Why should I care what a bunch of reprehensible racists think of me?”
Well?
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@Solitaire
Why should I have to answer such an asinine question from a proven racist him/herself?
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@ resw
Why shouldn’t you? Can’t you come up with a reasonable answer? An answer that would put a “proven racist” in their place?
You’re the one who used the appeal-to-authority rhetorical device citing a group of racist white supremacists. Can you not explain why?
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@ resw
You didn’t just use it on me, either. You also used it on Michael Jon Barker:
Is MJB a proven racist, too?
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Is MJB a proven racist, too?
I’m white and that’s self evident.
There is no switch in your head you flip that changes how your mind is wired. I don’t care how many books you have read or educational models you change up to “educate” white youth or some enlightenment you had, nothing changes within an individual until it becomes personal.
It’s not your knowledge that changes you rather it is the connection with the ones you love that changes how you think and feel and then you become a different sort of person.
If resw is white and chooses to use the word “coon” that is his/her moral choice and others who are offended by it certainly can object and call it out. If non whites use it then for me it’s not my business.
The issue discussed (coon) is separate from what the Alt Right is about. The Alt Right uses free speech as a weapon because they are degenerates. Yes they go on about PC culture ect but they attack innocent people because that sadistic activity brings them pleasure. All this degeneracy is rooted in racism, xenophobia, supremacy, nationalism ect.
This tit for tat, back and forth is redundant. If a poster attacks your integrity then it is fitting to defend yourself. It’s quite another thing to get locked in arguments that go no where.
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@ Michael Jon Barker
“It’s not your knowledge that changes you rather it is the connection with the ones you love that changes how you think and feel and then you become a different sort of person.”
And it’s because of the people I love that the Alt-Right would consider me a race traitor.
I agree with the basic concept that everyone white is racist simply from growing up in this society. I don’t disagree with you there.
In my personal life, I threw my lot in with people of color many, many years ago. I may still be working on overcoming my own individual racist wiring, but I made my choice a long time ago concerning who I pledged my life to, where I was going to stand and who I was going to stand with.
It doesn’t take away my white privilege, but it does demonize me in the eyes of the Alt-Right.
“The Alt Right uses free speech as a weapon because they are degenerates. Yes they go on about PC culture ect but they attack innocent people because that sadistic activity brings them pleasure. All this degeneracy is rooted in racism, xenophobia, supremacy, nationalism ect”.
And all I want to know is if Resw agrees with the above statement, considering the three times Resw cited the Alt-Right’s disapproval of PC language. I want to know if Resw understands why the Alt-Right opposes it.
You made similar points after the second occurence, calling the Alt-Right “evil and disgusting and the worst of humanity,” and yet Resw repeated the same sentiment again for a third time.
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@MJB
“It’s quite another thing to get locked in arguments that go no where.”
Good point!
It takes maturity and confidence to say your piece and move on.
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@Solitaire
“all I want to know is if Resw agrees with the above statement,”—You may want to, but that ship has sailed. Once you started assuming about Resw he likely saw no reason for a serious conversation with you. Sure he will play the tit for tat, but the discussion you are looking for will not happen.
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Milo on Black Lives Matter.
(https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=1271141502909967&id=100000423884201)
He forgets to mention that the police in the U.S. kill more civilians then any other country as well as leads in iprison ncarcerations more then any other country.
If Black people magically disappeared would incarceration and police violence lesson ? Or would another group fill the void ? The second senerio is most likely.
The way the judicial system is structured, it is designed to send people to prison because the prison system is profitable for the State.
The prison gaurd unions and police unions all played a part in lobbying for the construction of the prison industrial complex as well as lobbying for the passage of three strike laws, more prohibitions, the criminalization of non violent “acts” leading to the war on drugs and the creation of more laws expanding what is a “crime”.
A compliant media moves a narrative along about how we “need” the police, how “we” should respect their authority and never question their motives or official statements.
The media fixation with crime has created the illusion that Americans are less safe from criminals then 30 years ago. Statistics show that is not the case. Fear has been sown so deeply that people won’t open their doors to strangers, people will not help strangers they come across and suspicions of people who look different are reported to the police. “Remain vigilant”.
America is LESS SAFE across the board for ALL its citizens today because of perpetual wars abroad and because of the low intensity conflict the police wage here at home. Theses conflicts are directed at communities who don’t have the legal access to defend themselves against police action nor the structural defense to keep the police from occupying their neighborhoods.
Meanwhile Alt Right wh*res like Milo flame devisive content to further his own brand of exceptionalism as the path of “freedom” and “progress” in a race to hold White Western Civilization together to avoid “implossion”. His propaganda feeds into and builds upon an already Statist system whose expansion into facisim will accelerate the eradication of the civil rights of those they see as “unfit” . It is this that leads to interment camps and genocide. It is the deeply sadistic pleasure his followers feel, in their attacks against those they see “unfit”, that builds a social construct that will tap into the evil parts of humanity.
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@ Michael Jon Barker
“I don’t care how many … educational models you change up to ‘educate’ white youth”
Michael, I never said I was engaged in that kind of work — because I’m not, I never have been, and I never will be. I even said that type of curriculum should not be written, designed, or developed by white people:
If you still have issues with me about that discussion that you need to get off your chest, please take it back to the original thread and I will discuss it with you there.
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@ Solitare,
I wasn’t addressing you specifically I was just making a general statement. I was attempting to show that it is not necessarily knowledge that changes people’s behavior but the personal interactions people have amongst themselves.
I’m not against teaching multiculturalism or having diversity training, I’m just skeptical at how effective it is towards combating or eliminating racism but it should be part of an overall stratagy.
Multiculturalism taught in school may help some students but my instinct tells me it’s stronger for Blacks, Hispanics ect to focus soley on their own identity to build a strong collective ID to resist white supremacy being wired into their minds.
In the private sector sometimes people will take a required diversity training course so that later on in their employment if a situation arises the company has grounds to fire them. Of course if you are at the top of the ladder (like Roger Ailes) it’s a lot harder to get fired. In public service there are more protections built in to keep employees from being fired. In the police force I’m worried such “training courses” take the place of real structural change within that institution. In L.A. for example there is a civilian review board that works with the police but seeing who is on that board and what they have accomplished leaves me skeptical.
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@michaeljonbarker
“it’s stronger for Blacks, Hispanics ect to focus soley on their own identity to build a strong collective ID to resist white supremacy being wired into their minds.”—I agree with this. Historically blacks have been deprived of their identity and culture to assimilate. If they can grasp and maintain their own identity I have no doubt the ability to fight white supremacy will be stronger.
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@MJB
“The way the judicial system is structured, it is designed to send people to prison because the prison system is profitable for the State.
The prison gaurd unions and police unions all played a part in lobbying for the construction of the prison industrial complex as well as lobbying for the passage of three strike laws, more prohibitions, the criminalization of non violent “acts” leading to the war on drugs and the creation of more laws expanding what is a “crime”.
A compliant media moves a narrative along about how we “need” the police, how “we” should respect their authority and never question their motives or official statements.
The media fixation with crime has created the illusion that Americans are less safe from criminals then 30 years ago. Statistics show that is not the case. Fear has been sown so deeply that people won’t open their doors to strangers, people will not help strangers they come across and suspicions of people who look different are reported to the police. “Remain vigilant”.
Bravo! you touched on some of the structural reasons for the prison state and how it is supported by other systems (e.g. the media system).
“…Alt Right wh*res like Milo flame devisive content to further his own brand of exceptionalism as the path of “freedom” and “progress”…His propaganda feeds into and builds upon an already Statist system whose expansion into facisim will accelerate the eradication of the civil rights of those they see as “unfit” . It is this that leads to interment camps and genocide. It is the deeply sadistic pleasure his followers feel, in their attacks against those they see “unfit”, that builds a social construct that will tap into the evil parts of humanity.”
Genocide is the end game for these groups. It is important to look into their financial base of support—-who is funding them and what do they gain by focusing attention on the “unfit”. [As if any group of humans can logically deem another group of humans unfit.]
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I would prefer money being poured into preventative measures. I say this as the victim of a crime.
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@ Michael Jon Barker
I see.
May I respectfully suggest in the future when you reply to an individual, if within that reply you make a general statement it would be helpful to refrain from referring to a specific issue you and that specific individual have recently disagreed on, in order to avoid confusion about the generality of the statement.
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Blog post #2 that Kiwi has derailed to make this about “yellow”, and blog post #100+ that s/he has derailed to desperately make phony “Anti-Asian” claims.
@Kiwi
“The difference between Frank Wu and you is that he used “yellow” as a neutral race descriptor while you used it as a slur meant to insult another race.”
LOL. Sloppy Kiwi. I guess you forgot that you already argued that I shouldn’t refer to your hero Peter Liang as yellow because “”Yellow” as used to describe Asians is not” common. Shows what a hypocrite you are for giving Frank Wu a pass for doing the exact same thing.
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[…] Source: alt-right […]
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A great interview between Roland Martin and Richard Spencer, he who gave us the term “alt-right” and is now famous for saying “Heil Trump!”:
(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yr5BQS79H7g)
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What was too hilarious is when Richard Spencer said that the Egyptians were “white.” LMAO!!! The tomb of Seti I wouldn’t have convinced Spencer that the ancient Egyptians were non-white. White supremacy can definitely decay the brain.
I knew from the beginning of the interview that Spencer didn’t come in the studio to have an intellectual dialogue with Roland Martin, his white fragile ego was NOT going to allow it. Martin did an outstanding job at refuting his rhetoric. Basically, I saw fragile-minded white guy (Spencer) who is embedded with racial anxiety interviewed by Roland Martin.
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Yeah, Richard Spencer thinks the pyramids were built by White people. He is a big believer in the White Inventor argument.
He has a White privilege mindset (gains by people of colour = racial discrimination against Whites). He did not understand the double standard in being upset about Asians getting Silicon Valley jobs in high numbers while not being upset about Whites getting CEO jobs in high numbers.
Even though he sees Whites as naturally better than everyone else, he does not see himself as a White supremacist since he does not believe that Whites should rule others.
He said the Nazi salutes at his conference were “ironic” and a sign of “exuberance”. A finger in the eye of all those multiculturalists. Take that!
He uses “American” to mean any citizen of the US when cornered in an argument, even though he sees the US as a nation meant for Whites only. It allows him to wriggle out of the ethnic cleansing implicit in this rhetoric.
Roland Martin asked if he should go back to Europe. He let Spencer weasel out of that by saying that “European” is not a matter of geography. I am sure both would ADMIT that the US was built on Native American land, if asked, but it did not seem to figure much into their thinking.
Spencer was not as polished as I expected. He clearly has not been on television much. It is also clear he lives in a White bubble since he seemed unfamiliar with many of Roland Martin’s arguments.
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@ Abagond
You hit it dead on the mark.
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“A great interview between Roland Martin and Richard Spencer, he who gave us the term “alt-right” and is now famous for saying “Heil Trump!””
It was great for Richard Spencer, who mopped the floor with Roland. The only point Roland scored was that Richard could not justify the fact that whites were unable to build America without black free labour for centuries.
But Richard scored on getting Roland to cower from his black identity, he won on the Christianity argument, and he appeared much calmer and poignant than the stumbling Roland.
Roland should stick to cooning for white liberals because this foray ended in disaster.
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Yeah, that was a quite glaring omission.
But, it is an omission in the national narrative of the US anyhow, something that has really disturbed me since childhood.
And did anyone notice from where further immigration must be curtailed per Spencer?
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Abagond,
yes, I saw that
white boy trying to look all knowledgeable but didn’t know sh’t!
He sat there looking smug and smarmy… bringing up all the BS talking points
that your resident white racists like to bring up here on this blog
I don’t even know why Roland gave that jackhole a platform because this is what these scumbags want
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So according to Richard Spencer, the ancient Egyptians were white. I wonder how he would explain away the Mayan pyramids?
I also wish they’d actually delved further into who invented agriculture, because it sure as h*ll wasn’t white people.
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So according to Richard Spencer, the ancient Egyptians were white. I wonder how he would explain away the Mayan pyramids?
Maybe that there were two groups of peoples with the same idea?
I also wish they’d actually delved further into who invented agriculture, because it sure as h*ll wasn’t white people.
My guess it were the Egyptians, the Mesopotamians, the Indians, the Chinese and the Incas. Anyway, everywhere in semi-arid areas where the vegetables were nutricious enough to be worth the effort for planting them.
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Or you can start a study of the subject here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_agriculture or here: http://www.aghistorysociety.org/journal/
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@Linda
“I don’t even know why Roland gave that jackhole a platform because this is what these scumbags want”
I don’t understand it either. Abagond does the exact same thing on his blog for his resident white racists. Those who’ve been around long enough recall xpraetorius, for example.
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Things that Richard Spencer says in this video:
“No one mourns the great crimes committed against us [white people]. For us, it is conquer or die.”
“We were not meant to beg for moral validation from some of the most despicable creatures to ever populate the planet.”
“America was, until this past generation, a white country, designed for ourselves and our posterity. It is our creation, it is our inheritance, and it belongs to us.”
“When [the Nazi salute] is done in context of the Alt-Right, it’s done in a spirit of fun and exuberance.”
“The white people ultimately do not need other races in order to succeed.”
Roland Martin: “How do you think America became the greatest economic nation?”
Richard Spencer: “Not through black people.”
“White people could have figured out another way to pick cotton.”
“White people, Europeans, form the core of American identity.”
“What it means to be American is ultimately what it means to be a white person here.”
“I do not believe that everyone is equal.”
“White people do not have the rights of minorities…. Federal hiring is geared towards not hiring more white men.”
Roland Martin: “Do you know what the greatest affirmative action program was in this country?”
Richard Spencer: “Slavery?”
“Whites are underrepresented in corporations.”
“These institutions are dedicated to discriminating against people like me.”
“Who designed them, who had the genius to imagine railroads? Europeans. Are there railroads in Africa?”
“The Egyptians are not African.”
“Egypt was an amazing civilization. It was not created by black Africans.”
“Effectively every major institution in this country from governmental institutions to corporations are discriminating against whites.”
“Please don’t tell me black people created agriculture.”
“We’re going to win, and Mr. Martin, I want to tell you, you’ve got to prepare yourself. You’ve dealt with a bunch of guilt-ridden, silly whites all your life, and we are waking up, we are recognizing who we are, and we see an amazing future, so you better get ready.”
————
Whatever else Richard Spencer may be, he most certainly is not pro-black.
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@ Jeff Elberfeld
Thanks for the links but I already know this information and was speaking ironically. The reason I said that I wished they’d delved into it more was because Richard Spencer was insisting white people created everything, and when they touched on agriculture I wish Roland Martin had schooled him on where agriculture actually originated.
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@ Solitaire
Thank you for the quotes.
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[…] homosexuals might abuse “Trump Care“. To appease conservatives, the religious right, alt right groups and other nationalists there is specific limitations for which gay men can only have the procedure performed once a year by […]
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Richard Spencer on Trump’s “betrayal”
(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K2kGLsEdl-g)
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Richard Spencer was among those in a torch-bearing nighttime mob trying to prevent the removal of confederate statues. Only thing missing was his white sheet.
https://www.yahoo.com/news/mayor-condemns-torch-bearing-protesters-defending-confederate-statue-203028776.html
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Charlottesville os heating up tonight.
https://www.google.com/amp/abcnews.go.com/amp/US/virginia-governor-orders-national-guard-standby-ahead-alt/story%3fid=49163162
Blood and Soil has made a come back.
https://mobile.twitter.com/hashtag/bloodandsoil
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Around a 1000 white supremacists showed up last night in Charlettsville chanting “white lives matter” and “blood and soil.” That’s a lot. Usually there are more counter protesters then protestors at these white supremecy events. Not so last night.
(https://youtu.be/_vFe0EPBKXQ)
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Steve Bannon is fired.
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http://pics.mcclatchyinteractive.com/opinion/editorial-cartoons/lqpssc/picture169429257/alternates/FREE_960/0825-ohman
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Sorry, cartoon didn’t show. Oh well….
It features a satirical send up of alt-right history revision.
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Daily Stormer editor Andrew Anglin’s self-description of the Alt-Right:
“We lust after power. We want to be part of a group, which will give us power. A group that will confirm our worth as men. We do not have identities. We want identities. … We want a war.”
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DECODING ALT RIGHT RHETORIC
14888- A ploy on the white supremacist symbol “1488” used to mask the fact that alt righters believe in securing a future for white children to the exclusion of other races using the state. 14 = “There can be no tolerance toward democrats or communists in a libertarian social order.” A Hans Hermann Hoppe quote from Democracy: The God That Failed. 888 = HHH (Hans Hermann Hoppe) by virtue of the letter “H” appearing in the 8th spot of the alphabet.
Austro-libertarian – An alt right cover label for appearing libertarian while masking the intent to create a fascist ethno-state using a Pinochet-style dictatorship. Austro-libertarians accept that anyone deemed a “leftist” by ideology or by race can be murdered.
Degenerate – A shaming term used to describe people who do not subscribe to alt right conservatism.
Degenerate is often used to describe those who reject pair-bonded monogamous relationships and/or those who reject capitalism. As it does not reflect traditional conservatism, gay persons are often exempted from the critique who otherwise accept capitalism and two-parent households.
Erosion of Scarce Resources – A buzzphrase for suggesting that foreigners erode scarce resources to the detriment of native taxpayers white ignoring erosion done by American and European corporations and American and European imperialism abroad.
Estoppel – The common law legal doctrine popularized by Stephan Kinsella that a person cannot be stopped from saying they should not have something done to them that they would do or have done to another person as a form of retribution. Estoppel has been dangerously applied by alt righters to anyone deemed a leftist” by denying them the right to non-aggression. By calling someone a leftist, alt righters seek to justify initiating physical violence against such persons labelled before they have personally committed a physical violation of another’s body or property.
Jews Will Not Replace Us – The mantra of white nationalists and white supremacists who blame Jews for immigration policies in European countries and American states.
Leftist – A wide-sweeping term used to describe anyone not in agreement with white nationalism including, but not limited to, those who support government ending border enforcement and allowing the global flow of voluntary private capital and labor.
Nationalism – A term used to justify white exceptionalism by appealing to non-existing bonds of
white-skinned people based on an imagined belief in a conservative, capitalist, pseudo-Christian
geography. Often, “nationalism” is promoted as a rationalized jingoism in furtherance of creating a new white ethno-state.
Non-Victims of Taxation – A buzzphrase used to create an artificial group of those who are net taxpayers without any meaningful calculation into who has paid into or benefitted from government control.
“Non-victims” is also used to the exclusion of international embedded taxation and those who have been physically harmed by U.S. government war and imperialism.
Rootless Internationals – A term used by alt righters to describe Jews in an attempt to avoid Facebook bans when blaming Jews for various problems in the world.
R-Selected – A derogatory term based on a misappropriation of r/K selection theory. Alt righters use it to describe anyone who is considered a default leftist by biological expression. This label was derived from a false extrapolation of a species-wide observation in animals. It was wrongfully applied to humans on an individual basis. This incorrect application was popularized by Stefan Molyneux.
Statistics Are Racist – A mantra used by alt righters to downplay criticism about the methodologies and extrapolations of studies on race and behavior. By sarcastically making it seem like a study’s facts are “racist,” they hope to downplay attacks on the false extrapolations made from studies posed.
White Genocide – A term used to generalize government policies that may disincentivise white people from having children white funding foreign immigration from non-white races. “Genocide” is specifically used to create on extreme hyperbolic shock, making it appear that white people are being systematically murdered. The use of “white genocide” ignores European social programs that encouraged native populations to have children in the mid-2000s before the current migrant crises. It also excludes analysis of independent choices for not having children as a separate variable.
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“Statistics Are Racist”
Another example of deliberate overuse of a term (“racist”) to drain it of its original meaning and power. Ironically used by people who fit the original definition of the word.
Propaganda at its finest.
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Adam Server published an article yesterday in the Atlantic – a long read, but interesting and worth it.
The Nationalist’s Delusion
Trump’s supporters backed a time-honored American political tradition, disavowing racism while promising to enact a broad agenda of discrimination.
https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2017/11/the-nationalists-delusion/546356/
Basically, discussing the surge of white nationalism (albeit disguised as something else), but not just a fringe thing, but a reassertion of the national character.
and the conclusion:
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