“Hispanic” (1580s) generally means someone or something from a Spanish-speaking country. The word is mainly applied to Latinos (people from Latin America) who live in the US.
For the most part, “Hispanic” and “Latino” are used interchangeably, sometimes even in the same sentence.
Depending on which definition you use:
- “Hispanic” and “Latino” may or may not include people outside the US,
- “Hispanic” may or may not include people from Brazil or Portugal.
The word comes from Hispania, the Latin word for the whole Iberian peninsula (pictured above). It did not split into “Spain” and “Portugal” till the 1400s.
Although “Hispanic” has been in English since the time of Shakespeare, it did not take off till the 1970s, when President Nixon backed it and the US Census Bureau, in 1977, issued Statistical Policy Directive #15. It states:
“Hispanic. A person of Mexican, Puerto Rican, Cuban, Central or South American or other Spanish culture or origin, regardless of race.”
Directive #15 gave us the five-race model of the US: Black, White, Native, Asian and Hispanic. The directive, though, makes clear that Hispanic is ethnic, not racial. That is why the government speaks of “non-Hispanic Whites”.
Chicano: Many Mexican Americans, particularly those born in the US, see themselves as Chicanos. A Chicano, as one joke puts it, is a Mexican American who does not want blue eyes. They are not wannabe Anglo Americans or wannabe Mexicans – because they are proud of being who they are: Chicanos! Many Mexicans do not see Chicanos as “real Mexicans”, just like many Americans do not see them as “real Americans”.
Hispanic or Latino?
- Prefers Hispanic (at least 2 to 1): US government, New York Times, The Nation, Google Books (1980s, 1990s).
- Prefers neither: National Geographic, Time, National Review, The Economist, Essence, The Guardian, BBC, The Root, CNN, Google Books (2000s).
- Prefers Latino (at least 2 to 1): MSNBC, AP, Washington Post, LA Times, Democracy Now, Al Jazeera, Ebony, Huffington Post, Fox News, the Internet as a whole.
That is based on a Google search in 2014.
Among US Hispanics themselves in 2013, 33% preferred “Hispanic”, 15% “Latino” and 50% had no preference.
Some see “Hispanic” as Eurocentric since it refers to Spain, not Latin America. Some see it as honouring Spain, a conquering White power. It would be like calling Nigerians, Americans and Malaysians “Britannic”.
To counter some false ideas about US Hispanics:
By race (2010, as self-reported on the US census):
- 53.0% White
- 2.5% Black
- 1.4% Native
- 0.4% Asian
- 0.1% Pacific Islander
- 36.7% other
- 6.0% two or more races
By national origin (2008):
- 65.6% Mexican
- 9.0% Puerto Rican
- 3.4% Cuban
- 3.4% Salvadoran
- 2.8% Dominican
- 15.8% other
By language use (2011):
- 38% Spanish dominant
- 38% bilingual
- 24% English dominant
By citizenship status (2009):
- 62.6% native-born citizen
- 10.9% naturalized citizen
- 8.9% documented non-citizens
- 17.6% undocumented non-citizens (“illegal aliens”)
About 57% were born in the US and have no trouble using English.
Only 12% are the stereotypical undocumented workers from Mexico.
When the Pilgrims set foot on Plymouth Rock in 1620 there were already Hispanics living in Puerto Rico, Florida and New Mexico. Many have deep roots in North America that go back thousands of years and see themselves as conquered by Spain in the 1500s and then the US in the 1800s.
See also:
Just wanted to clarify. That is their national origin or ancestral national origin, not actual nationality, right?
LikeLike
@ jefe
Right. Most are born in the US.
LikeLike
Abagond, as good and detailed as your article is – it leaves out a couple important related facts.
1. Most Hispanic/Latinos have Amerindian heritage.
2. There are some who reject both terms because both terms gloss over / ignore the fact that most Hispanic/Latinos have an indigenous link to the Americas.
This is important because sovereignty, freedom of movement, and (im)migrant rights.
One term used by those who reject both Hispanic and Latino is Nican Tlaca – which is the Nahuatl (Mexica) language way of saying “We the people here”.
LikeLike
[…] "Hispanic" (1580s) generally means someone or something from a Spanish-speaking country. – Click through for more – […]
LikeLike
[…] Source: abagond.wordpress.com […]
LikeLike
@Glenn
While that may indeed be true, it would be misleading to mention that and fail to mention
– The vast majority of Hispanic/Latinos have European heritage.
– A large portion, if not a majority of Hispanic/Latinos have African heritage, esp. those with origins in the Caribbean but also many from Mainland Latin America (eg, Mexico, Panama, Honduras, Venezuela, etc.)
– post-Colombian Asian ancestry has been mixed into the Latin American population since the 16th century, e.g., in Mexico, Peru, Panama, Cuba, and others.
Would it be correct (or at least politically correct) only to recognize, or at least emphasize the indigenous link and ignore or de-emphasize the rest? Or does it have to do with the identity of “mestizo” which stresses the connection to indigenous populations, rather than to the rest?
LikeLike
@Glenn
Are you saying the indigenous link to the Americas is played down to conceal the Latino community’s right to reside in America? To perpetuate that they’re outsiders/foreigners?
Great post. I’m actually excited about Hispanic history month, I’m really looking forward to learning about this. I find Latino history complicated. There are so many narratives, it’s a vast and various group often with a complicated political history.
LikeLike
I dont have an opinion about Hispanics in general, but Mexicans should go home
LikeLike
Just because you are descended from one Indian tribe doesn’t mean you have a right to live anywhere in North America. Most Mexicans are descended from tribes south of the Rio Grande. That doesn’t automatically give them the right to live north of it.
If that doesn’t make sense, consider this: Does someone of Greek descent automatically have the right to live in Sweden just because the Greeks and Swedes are both indigenous to Europe?
LikeLike
To me, a Hispanic is a racially ambiguous person whose origins are in a Spanish-speaking Latin American country. My former pale skinned blue eyed Spanish professor from Mexico is just white to me. People from Spain are white. Zoe Saldana, just black.
Jennifer Lopez, A-rod, Fat Joe.. Those are Hispanic to me.
LikeLike
Thank you Abagond for getting the party started!
So, first up, the all encompassing names: Hispanic vs Latino in the world of US of America racial games (aka politics)
Maybe to understand how Hispanics feel about this (and why so many people are ambivalent) is because:
1) Everyone views themselves by Nationality.
That’s why when Americans ask someone, who they view as “hispanic”, what they are,who they are?
the answer will never come back as “I’m white, I’m black, I’m Native Indian” etc, etc.. they will answer “I’m Colombian, I’m Mexican, I’m Puerto Rican” etc.
Now, to shed some light on this, let’s view it from their perspective:
If you, as an American, goes to visit South America, let’s say, Peru – and someone asks you “what are you, who are you?” most likely, your first answer will be “I am American, from NYC”
Reasonable statement because you are aware that you are in a foreign country. So, your first thought would be to identify by your nationality and not your race.
This is the reason why so many Hispanics in America identify themselves by country and the reason why Afro-Hispanics, such as the Dominicans (from DR) don’t automatically bust out with ” I’m black” when asked “what are you”
because they are aware that they are immigrants from another country or descendants of immigrants and answer accordingly. (and also, Dominicans want to be seen as members of the Hispanic community and not get dragged into the 2-tier black and white one-drop system of the US)
which leads to the next issue, the racial dynamics of the “Hispanic/Latino” country these immigrants have come from,
and the racial dynamics of the Spanish-speaking Americans who already lived in North America, called “New Spain-Mexico”, before the white Anglo settler government (called the USA) took over (and the reason why Mexicans view themselves as the real Americans)
http://faculty.smu.edu/rkemper/anth_6306/anth_6306_borders_mexico-US.htm#Border%20between%20New%20Spain%20and%20the%20U.S.,%201800-1819
LikeLike
I was told by a co-worker when i used that term how that could be anybody. From that conversation alone tells me it is not a widely acceptable term.
LikeLike
I dated an afro Cuban would always say “I’m Cuban” It was not about being black. Same with the few Puerto Ricans they just say “I’m Puerto Rican.”
LikeLike
My previous two post kind of piggybacks off of what commenter Linda is saying.
LikeLike
This is what I was alluding to in the announcement post on Hispanic history month about self hate amongst some Hispanics.
53% self identify as white racially even though most American Hispanics are Mexican and dna tests prove the average Mexican is mostly Indigenous……WTF? The average Hispanic, Mexican or not doesn’t really look white at all. They look Native and/or black with an obvious bit of white admixture. That’s essentially what the average Black American is, but we never self identify as white.
36.7% self identify as “other” racially is even more perplexing. If the definition of Hispanic or Latino is not that of a race, but an ethnic group comprised of any race but with heavy concentrations of White, Native & to a lesser extent Black & Asian how could so many self identify as “other”? Even in a modern context where we’ve realized the concept of race isn’t biologically real just a social phenomenon, the aforementioned “races” make up just about every race there is more or less so what “other” race could there possibly be to identify as? The caste systems in Latin countries that reward whiteness outright really have black & brown people convinced that because they have a slightly lighter complexion than the next person that means they’re white & it proves how confused they are. It’s quite sad actually
LikeLike
Based on my experience, most people I know who can be labeled as Hispanic or Latino usually identify with their nationality (ancestral nationality). I’m from the English speaking Caribbean and I do the same regardless of what the racial politics dictate.
As I see it, the reason for that is due to the fact that a person’s customs come from their culture which in turn comes from their nation. A person’s nation is defined by the people that person lives with and interacts with on a daily basis. To define oneself solely by the way you look ignores the fact not everyone who looks like you has the same customs. So to define oneself by a physical indicator such as race is wrong. Then when you add multiple generations of racial mixing within a culture, the use of physical features to define people is even more messed up.
LikeLike
@A,
The “other” race is the race that doesn’t recognize race as a real concept. Just because the rest of the world tells you that you have to put yourself in a box doesn’t mean that you actually have to.
LikeLike
“A,
The caste systems in Latin countries that reward whiteness outright really have black & brown people convinced that because they have a slightly lighter complexion than the next person that means they’re white & it proves how confused they are.”
Linda says,
A, they are not confused — they are/were working with the system in their respective country, that dictates how racial politics functions
The same way that black Americans had to work within the system that was dictated by the USA government, dealing with race and identity.
In Central and South America, the caste system was built on race and class.
In the USA, the caste system was built solely on race and not class.
In the USA, it didn’t matter what class or how much European blood a mixed person had — the one drop rule dictated that “1 drop of African blood” made a person black
In Central/South America, you could say it was the reverse, “1 drop of European blood” placed a mixed person in a different racial category and could also possibly allow them to advance into another class (if their money was right)
So, it’s not feasible to expect black/mixed Latinos to automatically prescribe to the USAs racial concepts, the same way, black Americans are not going to stop seeing mixed people with obvious African features as “just black” —
we are all products of the environments that raised us.
LikeLike
Linda and Anne’s post give me pause and help me to understand this topic. Their post are thought provoking. Their post were enlightening and helped me to escape being narrow minded about this topic. I admit my ignorance for many years about this topic and appreciate their perspective on this topic. Thanks ladies for enlightening me.
LikeLike
You’re welcome Mary!
and thanks for being open because for many people, it’s hard to put aside their own “truths” in order to look from someone else’s perspective
I personally think that all of us have been brainwashed in some sort of way, it just depended on who was in charge of doing “the laundry” in the land our African ancestors finally called home.
LikeLike
Anne
I understand that some realize that race is a social construct but even of those who are aware of this fact, how many don’t identify as being part of a race or ethnic group? An individuals feelings about their race doesn’t stop the world from treating you a certain way based on what they perceive your race to be. I can say I’m not black but if I constantly experience lesser treatment than whites in all areas of life I will inevitably ask why. Those who are in the know and have taken the Red Pill so to speak will then tell me why. They’ll explain that the historic oppression of people who look like me led to a widespread feeling of superiority among others who don’t and this feeling has infected every level of society as we know it. I will then compare what they’ve said to what I’ve experienced and then come to form solidarity with those who identify as black.
Likewise in Latin America where everything is openly based on skin color & racial prejudice, how could so many individuals not identify as any race when their treatment in life from start to finish has been dictated by it? The only conclusion I can come to is the typical “if you can’t beat em join em” feeling of those who deny their own roots to fit in. They may not call themselves black, brown or indigenous but that is what most of the world sees, whether they are educated enough to know race is real or not. I’m not saying your wrong, but I strongly feel these people are just denying their heritage. When you see a person black enough to be Wesley Snipes’ cousin & comment on said appearance & the only reply is “I’m not black, I’m Taino” then I can only conclude self hate is the issue.
LikeLike
I think the main confusion here comes from the fact that in the US, race is, more or less, used as a synonym of ethnicity. There are cultural and historic reasons for this, but the rest of the world (the majority, as far as i know) make a difference between race and ethnicity. In the case of Hispanic/Latino debate, it seems confusing because it’s an attempt to translate ethnicity into a race, which doesn’t work in this case, because people who identify as Hispanic or Latinos (or any other preferred term for the group) can be of many different races.
Also, I kind of always wondered about Europeans. Do Spanish people count as Hispanic? Are, say, Antonio Banderas and Javier Bardem Hispanic? (I guess no).
On an unrelated side, it’s also interesting to point out that the way races are defined is not the same all over the world. In my part of the world (the Balkans), Latinos are racially seen as white (unless they are Afro-Latinos, etc.) For example, nobody thought that Adriana Lima and Marko Jaric’s marriage was interracial.
PS- This may be just people I know, but most of them prefer Latin@ over Hispanic. (Also, spelling with @ is preferred to them, as gender-neutral).
LikeLike
A said:
“I understand that some realize that race is a social construct but even of those who are aware of this fact, how many don’t identify as being part of a race or ethnic group? An individuals feelings about their race doesn’t stop the world from treating you a certain way based on what they perceive your race to be”.
Race is NOT a biological fact, it’s a social construct – but it doesn’t make it any less “real”. Something doesn’t have to be biological to be real, as long as people see it as real. And race is sure a thing people see as real and act on it as it’s real, so yes, it’s very real, even though it’s not based in biology.
LikeLike
Linda
“In Central/South America, you could say it was the reverse, “1 drop of European blood” placed a mixed person in a different racial category and could also possibly allow them to advance into another class (if their money was right)
So, it’s not feasible to expect black/mixed Latinos to automatically prescribe to the USAs racial concepts, the same way, black Americans are not going to stop seeing mixed people with obvious African features as “just black”
I understand what you’re saying, but even in Latin America with an inverted racial system people of color are still treated poorly or at the very least otherized. Going your entire life seeing yourself & everyone who looked like you treated as 2nd class citizens unless they attained wealth would have to put the truth firmly in perspective.
How could an individual be treated like dirt, get a little bit of money, then in turn be treated like royalty & not see a problem? Wouldn’t they notice that so-called whites were always treated well or better than others no matter what their financial status was? The realities of racial inequity are inescapable & the fact that their are less wealthy & famous people of color in Latin America than in the US shows that the oppression based around race & end results aren’t all that different, even if the method of attack is.
All in all, I definitely understand your point and I would have to concede that you’re correct, we do identify in the way we’re taught because it’s impossible for me as a Black American to comprehend someone not seeing something as obvious as their own oppression when it’s this blatant. Thank you for putting it in perspective for me.
LikeLike
Mary
I co-sign your comment. Anne and Linda added amazing commentary.
LikeLike
Miraaaa
LikeLike
Kiwi,
In Europe, race is one thing, and ethnicity is another. Both are important when it comes to collective identities and grouping, but are not the same. Racism is alive and well, but unlike US, being white is not enough to be seen as “one of their own” by the most powerful group, because ethnicity is important. There is no way an English person or a German one sees, for example, Bulgarians or Romanians as “one of their own”, even though they are recognized as white. There is also a lot of white on white animosity going on (hello, Balkans!) None of it means racism is non-existent, but the ethnic identification plays a lot of role in a way that is not true in the US.
Ebonymonroe
Hi! 🙂
LikeLike
@A
I think many Black people get confused by the varying perspectives of Hispanics on this. For instance, some Hispanics use the n word identifying as Black while others don’t identify that way, or, both seeing yourself as White or “other” and still using the word. I’m not touching on whether or not it should be used at all, but I have found the sitting on both sides of the fence confusing at times, I must admit. I think as has been said, you just have to take each person as they come to identify themselves because Hispanic isn’t a race (the concept, since I know it doesn’t exist).
LikeLike
As an example of a reverse of the one drop makes you White system, if I’m not mistaken, a large part of the Chicano movement was about proudly proclaiming Mexican were poc and proud, a detachment from the idea of being separate from White. Many traditional Mexicans are said to have rejected this because not identifying as point blank White was both new and an aggressive shift.
LikeLike
I guess what I’m trying to say is that Hispanics as a race is a foreign concept for Europeans because Hispanics vary a lot by appearance (there are black ones, and white looking ones, etc.) so they are not seen as a race… At the same time, “Hispanics” is not really an ethnicity – individual ethnicities are Mexican, Cuban, etc. So I guess this is what Europeans tend to find confusing. While there are regional groupings in Europe (for example, Easter Europeans), it’s never recognized as monolithic. “Eastern European” is only a thing in North America. In Europe, people recognize differences between Poland and Croatia and Bulgaria and Russia, etc.
Because of the media, most non-Americans seem to have the idea that America is 95% white and 5% black, if not whiter than that.
Funnily enough, before I started learning more about the US, I thought it was more like half: half (I thought half of America was black). I knew there were some Asian Americans and that Native Americans make only 1% of the US population, due to genocide, but I thought there’s roughly the same number of whites and blacks in the US.
I think it has a lot to do with difference in perception. Where I’m from (the Balkans), there are no black people. So white is seen as default, and whenever you see a group of people that’s at least 20% black, you’d think it’s 50% black. (Which, yeah… I’m not proud of doing, but this is what being socialized in specific time and place does to you). That’s a well-documented phenomenon when it comes to ideas on who is considered “default”. Similar results happen when people estimate the number of women in a group. If a group is 20% women, many people would say it’s 50% women in the group. Because women (POC, etc.) are not seen as “default”.
It’s one of the reasons why the myth of a “default human” should be debunked. Or at least talked about.
LikeLike
@Kiwi
From what I understand from my husband’s perspective it seems to be the same. While most whites at his job will treat him as an honorary white, they still do not see him as one of them and they give him heavy slack for relating to black or other hispanic co-workers. Like some weird jealousy thing.
LikeLike
When I lived in France, most of the whites I knew had European ancestry from outside the country such as from Spain, Portugal, Italy, Germany, Belgium, England, or even Eastern Europe.
Yes, but that’s ancestry, right? I meant on people who do live in Eastern Europe and the Balkans as in, today. I can assure you that Western Europe doesn’t see us as one of their own. Some of us are not even allowed in the EU. It’s particularly true for the Balkans, which is not seen as “true” Europe. I can assure you that people from the Balkans are not treated as one of their own by Western Europeans. Maybe if you get to move to a western European country and you have kids there, then yes, because you are white and you are not seen as the Other the way POC immigrants – and non-immigrants are (because racism is alive and well). But people who actually live in non-Western Europe are not seen as “one of their own”, I can assure you. I am not even sure if USians see Balkan whites as one of their own (not Balkan-Americans, people who actually live on the Balkans). In my experience, USians don’t have a clue about Balkans, but Europeans know, and a distinction is made.
But yes, being a POC makes you the Other even if you are born in the country, which is why I said that both race and ethnic group play a part.
LikeLike
I agree with this. I live in the UK and if you’re, say, Irish or Polish you’re not seen as one of them. In fact, because of resentments towards Polish immigrants who were brought in for cheap labour after the financial collapse, there was great hostility towards them. The issue of race and ethnicity is different in the UK. Although racism exists, if you’re Black British with a British accent, you’re generally treated as British, while Middle Easterners are treated as perpetual foreigners. Eastern Europeans are often treated worse than middle class Blacks.
LikeLike
I wouldn’t speak of “who has it worse”. I don’t want to make this into Oppression Olympics or anything. I’m just trying to say that race and ethnicity are different things in Europe. Not in a way that racism doesn’t exist, but in a way that being white is not enough per se – not if you are not of the right white ethnic group.
I agree with Kiwi that it’s easier for writes to assimilate while POC are always seen as foreigners, but I wasn’t really talking about assimilation. I meant on non-western whites and the way they (and their countries) are seen in Europe. I can guarantee there’s no “they are one of us” sentiment. When it comes to Balkans specifically, it’s not even seen as “real” Europe, and there are historical reasons for that.
Vampire myths, for example (the way they are seen in popular culture) are actually bastardization of Balkan myths and a cautionary tale against the Balkans. Sure, they were conceived in the 19th century, but not much is changed in terms of acceptance. (Not that people on Balkans see Westerners as one of their own either. Well, some do, but most don’t).
At the same time, people of Balkans – and I believe in all Eastern Europe – see themselves as whites (and in no way less white because they are not WASPs). Which, yeah – racism. An Eastern European/Balkaner will complain about the way he’s treated by Westerners, but is usually quick to discriminate against POC.
LikeLike
What I mean is that the dynamics of race are different in the UK to that of the US because the UK is also very class based.
America’s history of race is a little more recent and intense, and, complicated. Not in terms of who takes the title of having it the worst, but in terms of the issue of being a perpetual foreigner. Of course there are layers of dynamics at play between treatment over race, class, ethnicity, but in my experience, when it comes to an Eastern immigrant with a thick accent, vs. a middle class third generation Black Brit, the former would not be seen as “one of us,” with the latter being “one of them,” the UK has more facets at play in comparison to the States.
LikeLike
“Race is NOT a biological fact, it’s a social construct – but it doesn’t make it any less “real”. Something doesn’t have to be biological to be real, as long as people see it as real. And race is sure a thing people see as real and act on it as it’s real, so yes, it’s very real, even though it’s not based in biology”
Mira
I guess this is kind of what I was trying to get at. If you look at your surroundings and see that all the poverty, sickness, unemployment, criminality, gang culture & other non-desirable pathologies disproportionately affect black & brown while the wealthy & privileged are disproportionately white wouldn’t said individuals catch the hint after a while and come together to form a group in solidarity?
They may not said group black, brown, PoC etc but they would realize that something isn’t adding up once they’ve been treated one way & watched their white counterparts treated differently a few too many times. After observing this difference & coming to America to see it played out again, albeit in a bit of a remixed manner I would just assume that they would immediately understand what the dominant society views them as & more or less fall in with & identify as PoC. Birds of a feather & such.
I know culturally theirs going to be a difference but I can’t see it being that big of a deal because certain Afro-Hispanics like Panamanians in my experience tend to blend in with other blacks with no issue, American, Carribean & African alike.
LikeLike
Ebony & Mira
Funny you should talk about Eastern Europeans, I met a British man once through a mutual friend/co-worker who hinted at having similar views about them. She had shown us a video on youtube from a Slavic country with two men fighting in the woods while it was snowing and no word of a lie, one pulled out a gun & fired at the others car as he tried to pull away. You couldn’t see the driver because of the camera angle but seeing as the car stopped immediately it was safe to conclude what happened.
Everyone just gasped in shock but her British friend in response simply shook his head & stated “Slavic Europeans are a different breeeeed” And yes he pronounced it “breeeeed” just like that. Everyone then started making stereotypical “Boris” jokes & what not & essentially laughed it off. I had no idea of the history of relations between Western & Eastern Europeans at that point & had no idea what he was referring to.
Then I read this blog & its comments lol
LikeLike
What I mean is that the dynamics of race are different in the UK to that of the US because the UK is also very class based.
Yes, class issue is yet another of the things that are different. To be honest, I believe UK class system is one of the strongest in Europe (we don’t have it in my part of Europe) and it works differently than in the US (or many other parts of the world).
A,
I do think that’s the dynamics at play, especially when you are accepted in one group and not the others. Not to mention shared experiences, etc.
LikeLike
A,
Slavs are often seen as inferior in Europe, and it’s not a new thing. (Hey, where do you think the English word for “slave” comes from?) Hitler also wanted to get rid of Slavs. It’s not a new thing at all, but it’s not racialized, because even though there are some sentiments about “different breeds”, etc. I believe Slavs are seen as white in Europe – but that doesn’t mean Western Europeans see them as one of their own. No way. (And vice versa).
LikeLike
‘When Brown people think they are white’
(http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=3e6ChgL1EC4)
In this video a Mexican American asks other Mexicans what they believe their race is. Most seem to be just as ignorant of their own history as non-hispanic Americans
LikeLike
From the post above
LikeLike
Ebonymonroe, that’s the oxymoron of America. You label a people and downplay the fact that they have severe indigenous roots to the country or landmass….
LikeLike
Ironically some of the most crude hispanics to other people of color are the ones that are more indigenous give or take. I know Asiatic features are frowned upon in the majoritiy of the Latino & Hispanic community for a reason..
LikeLike
“53% self identify as white racially even though most American Hispanics are Mexican and dna tests prove the average Mexican is mostly Indigenous……WTF?”
I was in Belize recently and they( the few I spoke to)seemed to consider Mexicans and Guatemalans white.
LikeLike
Kiwi
I’ve met Spanish descent people who pass as white. You would never think they were Hispanic unless they said so or told you their surname. As for Antonio Banderas, I’ve always thought of him as being of Hispanic race. His looks are very Mediterranean and tan, which makes him look ethnic.
Yes, but Antonio and Javier are Europeans, that’s why I’m asking. And they don’t really look much different than the rest of South/Mediterranean Europeans (Italians, Greeks, etc. Also, many people from the Balkans have this phenotype. Also, some Irish people). And yet, all of these Europeans are considered white – because you don’t really have to be WASP (or, as it’s sometimes erroneously refer to “Aryan”) to be white.
(Obviously, I am not 100% about Antonio’s and Javier’s families, but I don’t think they have Central or South American ancestors. They are European).
LikeLike
A,
You’re welcome.
but I just wanted to be clear on what we are discussing – which is “how the US government designates race in America” because their main goal with the term Hispanic, was to create a separate “race”
and just to clarify, the US government classified people arbitrarily to suit whatever agenda they had going at the time. (such as classifying Egyptians as “white” so that Egyptian history can be considered part of western Europe’s history)
here is an example of what some modern day Egyptians look like:
(I don’t see any white people, do you? I’m sure a few black Americans could find someone in that photo, who resembles a relative!)
Now, as far as this designation of Spanish-speaking people as “Hispanics” in the USA,
you have to remember the history; as the white anglo US government was heading west — they were taking the land from the Native Americans and the Mexicans
So, to them, the Spanish/Mexicans were “not like them” and the war between Spain/Mexico and the USA was not friendly
So imagine that the US government has now acquired the land it coveted and on this land remains the very people they just defeated and that they don’t like.
There was no way they were about to give them equal status to themselves.
In the 1930s, the US government deported millions of Mexican-Americans to Mexico, (they even deported Mexican-Americans whose people had resided on land their family owned before the West was even acquired by the USA in the mid-1800s.)
U.S. urged to apologize for 1930s deportations
“The slogan has gone out over the city (Los Angeles) and is being adhered to — ‘Employ no Mexican while a white man is unemployed,’ “ wrote George Clements, manager of the Los Angeles Chamber of Commerce’s agriculture department, in a memo to his boss Arthur Arnoll.
He said the Mexicans’ legal status was not a factor: “It is a question of pigment, not a question of citizenship or right.”
http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/nation/2006-04-04-1930s-deportees-cover_x.htm
So, no — even back then, the white Anglo USA government did not view these Spanish-speaking Mexicans as “white” (regardless of what Mexicans, Central Americans, or anyone else viewed them as) and this attitude trickled down to the rest of the Spanish-speaking Americas.
LikeLike
Correction: “and this attitude trickled down to also include the rest of the Spanish-speaking America’s”
LikeLike
Mexicans, like people from India, have been counted as White in some US censuses and counted separately from Whites in others.
LikeLike
According to National Geographic, the average Mexican American living in Los Angeles is, genetically speaking:
36% Native American
28% Mediterranean
20% Northern European
8% Southwest Asian
4% sub-Saharan African
2% Southeast Asian
2% ??
Using the US Census definitions of “White”, “Asian” and so on, that comes to:
56% White
36% Native
4% Black
2% Asian
2% ??
Source:
https://genographic.nationalgeographic.com/reference-populations/
LikeLike
@ A
I think the “36.7% other” shows how badly Latin American ideas of race map onto Anglo American ones. As to “53% White”, God only knows what that means. See the The Pragmatist’s video, for example. Latin and Anglo American ideas of “White” are different, as Linda points out.
A huge number of Mexican Americans are mestizo – a mix of White and Native. The US census does not currently have a box for that.
LikeLike
Geneticist Neil Risch sees Hispanics as a separate, biologically real race. He can take your DNA sample and tell whether or not you checked off “Hispanic” on a government form at least 97.62% of the time:
My guess, though, is that what he calls “Hispanic” is in fact “people with a high number of Native American genetic markers”.
LikeLike
Well, technically since 2000, there is a box for “more than once race” and the opportunity to tick “all that apply” but I would suppose that means about as much to Mexican Americans who have been multiracial for centuries as it does to black Americans.
LikeLike
@ Jefe
LOL. Right.
LikeLike
@A,
“I’m not saying your wrong, but I strongly feel these people are just denying their heritage. When you see a person black enough to be Wesley Snipes’ cousin & comment on said appearance & the only reply is “I’m not black, I’m Taino” then I can only conclude self hate is the issue.”
I understand what you’re saying. The concept of race as we know it originated with Western European culture. That’s not my culture so I can, regardless of how society sees me, disregard it. My ancestry and physical features won’t change just because I chose not to use someone else’s label. For a mongrel like me, when someone wants to do the calculations on what percentage of what group I am mixed with, I tell them to take a seat and grab a pen and paper to take notes because it isn’t that simple.
In reference to the part of your comment that I quoted above, phenotypes don’t always match DNA. Would you be as worried if you met a pale skinned person with blonde curly hair and grey eyes who told you they were black, not Irish?
LikeLike
@Anne,
I always find that multiracial people are always being accused of denying their heritage or harbouring racial self-hatred by monoracially identified persons.
LikeLike
Geneticist Neil Risch sees Hispanics as a separate, biologically real race. He can take your DNA sample and tell whether or not you checked off “Hispanic” on a government form at least 97.62% of the time
I say bullshit. There’s no such a thing as a “biological race”. Though I suppose it is possible to guess, based on things like high percentage of genetic markers specific for Native Americans – even better, Native Americans from central and south America. (This is just a guess). There are probably some halplogroups common/unique for Native Americans from those regions. But it’s not a marker of “race”, because races are not biological.
LikeLike
From the little that I know – and I am not Hispanic – one can be white Hispanic and have a lot of Native American ancestry, but the threshold for African ancestry is much lower.
I’ve heard folks say they had ‘no ‘dark’ ancestry’ but about having Native American roots more like ‘don’t we all’. Also I heard people describe being Hispanic as their race i.e. the civil rights group La Raza.
In Latin America, Asians are often viewed in a way similar to how Jews are viewed. I don’t know why, but I’ve heard this from Asians who lived in Latin America.
LikeLike
@”It would be like calling Nigerians, Americans and Malaysians “Britannic”.
Not really, because there’s no “Britannic” language so to speak. It would be like calling Nigerians, Americans and others “Anglic,” which is true.
@Mary Burrell
“I dated an afro Cuban would always say “I’m Cuban” It was not about being black. Same with the few Puerto Ricans they just say “I’m Puerto Rican.”
I’d agree, especially with Cubans, Ricans, etc. I think “Hispanic” is just the term most people feel they are forced to use. In the same way Ethiopian-Americans consider themselves Ethiopian (or Habesha, Oromo, etc.) but forced to consider themselves black in America.
Just goes to show that race is 100% socio-political.
LikeLike
“Not really, because there’s no “Britannic” language so to speak. It would be like calling Nigerians, Americans and others “Anglic,” which is true.”
I recently read that when Latin America was constructed in the 19th century, people also thought about a “Latin Africa”, which also included a racial component. In the end it didn’t catch on, but it it shows that the idea of “Britannics” wouldn’t be that far fetched in the thought process of race theorists.
LikeLike
@Miss Minnie
I would suppose one can be white hispanic if we go by census and other race checking paperwork, but I am not sure all that white black hispanic stuff actually exists among hispanics. Of course in the US a hispanic could pass for either/or but that does little to negate how they are seen my others.
For example my husband struggled with this and settled on simply putting black hispanic. Though he never considered himself white or black hispanic just mexican.
LikeLike
[…] "Hispanic" (1580s) generally means someone or something from a Spanish-speaking country. – Click through for more – […]
LikeLike
“Immigrants Who Speak Indigenous Languages Encounter Isolation”
“In recent years, the Mexican Consulate in New York, seeking to learn more about the local indigenous Mexican population, has surveyed the Mexican citizens who seek the consulate’s services. As of the end of 2013, more than 17 percent of respondents spoke an indigenous language, with Mixtec and Nahuatl being the most popular among a total of 16. (Scores of indigenous languages with hundreds of variants are spoken in Mexico alone.)”
“Sometimes the struggle of these immigrants is simply to get others to recognize that they are somehow different from the Latin Americans who speak Spanish. They are often mistaken for Spanish speakers because of their nationality and appearance and are addressed in Spanish.”
“Several years ago, Juan Carlos Aguirre, executive director of Mano a Mano, a Mexican cultural organization based in New York, received a call from a hospital official in Manhattan. The official was having trouble communicating with a Mexican family. “She said, ‘I need your help,’ ” Mr. Aguirre recalled. “ ‘I think they’re all mentally challenged.’ ”
Mr. Aguirre asked the caller if she had asked the family what language they spoke. “They’re Mexican, so they speak Spanish,” the woman replied matter of factly. It turned out that the family spoke Mixtec.”
LikeLike
“Yo Soy Latina: A Bronx Boricua Embraces Latinidad”
fb.me/78DuwQdBX
““Latino” can be a polarizing term, and with reason. Latinidad can be a problematic concept, when it relies on erasure, a new way of being “Hispanic,” that is, easily categorizable to others, outsiders, people who need to name us and move on. We don’t fit neatly into the Black-White binary that US history rests on. I can understand why friends and colleagues shy away from embracing the term as I have. That fear of erasure is a sentiment I understand. One academic I know, a transnational Puerto Rican writer, told me he prefers the term Caribenidad, to connote the affinity he feels for other Caribbean nations, Spanish-speaking or not, and our shared regional history. Some friends, colleagues, and other cultural workers, have also expressed an uneasiness with the term, and their unwillingness to embrace a Latinidad that erases their AfroLatino experience and chooses, against all demographic and statistical data stating otherwise, to identify itself as light, white, anything but Brown and Black. They rightfully rail against a “Latino monolith”, numbers and figures that only represent a small portion of the varied experiences that comprise “Latino” or “Latin American.””
LikeLike
The His Panic racial project again shows its cracks:
“Sean Hannity gets schooled on immigration: “People won’t vote for a candidate who will deport your father”: The Fox News host is confused why Hispanic Americans don’t like the GOP. Fusion’s Jorge Ramos sets him straight”
http://www.salon.com/2015/04/16/sean_hannity_gets_schooled_in_immigration_debate_people_wont_vote_for_a_candidate_who_will_deport_your_father/
“Last night, Sean Hannity spoke to Fusion host Jorge Ramos about why the Hispanic community refuses to back Republican candidates who share their cultural identity like Marco Rubio and Ted Cruz.
He began by asking Ramos why we don’t hear much about how historic a Rubio or Cruz presidency would be. Ramos answered that, on the one hand, both senators are choosing to follow Barack Obama in not making his race an issue in the election, and on the other, both Rubio and Cruz are Republicans of Cuban descent, whereas the majority of Latinos are of Mexican descent and vote Democratic.”
““What I’m saying,” Ramos tried to conclude, “is that if Cruz and Rubio choose not to support immigration reform,” but Hannity cut him off and again appealed to identity politics.
“Even if it’s the first Hispanic American president?” he asked. “Wow.””
LikeLike
Article revealing of who the “Hispanics” really are, as well as the limits of Pope Francis’ commitment to Jesus’ values:
“Will the US greet first Latino Pope by kicking out Junipero Serra?”
http://www.catholicnewsagency.com/news/will-the-us-greet-first-latino-pope-by-kicking-out-junipero-serra-16005/
“During an April 20 press briefing at the Vatican, Carriquiry Lecour questioned removing the statue of “this Hispanic saint from the Capital of Washington, at the precise time when the first Hispanic Pope in history” will come to the U.S. capital to canonize him.
Axing the statue just months before the papal visit in September, “would not be an extraordinarily nice welcome from a country that proposes multicultural tolerance,” he said.”
LikeLike