A guest post by commenter Peanut:
I adore Black men, as many Black women do. Black men have to deal with racism and injustice on a daily basis, yet many rise above it. I idolize men like Dr. Benjamin Carson, a renowned neurosurgeon, and John Keller, an unsung hero of Hurricane Katrina. I am not alone in my adoration of Black men. Most Black women love Black men and because we love them, we are loyal to them.
Some believe that Black women have no choice, but to be loyal to Black men because no other men desire us.
I disagree.
Black women are indelibly connected to Black men through our shared culture, struggle and history. If Black men are being profiled, brutalized by police or discriminated against, then it’s like our Black brother, our Black father, our Black son or our Black lover is being discriminated against. From the days of Ida Wells, who started the anti-lynching campaign, to the present day of Michelle Alexander, who advocates for an end mass incarceration of Black men, and the Black women who came out in mass to support the Jena Six, Black women have advocated for Black men because we care and we know that in order to survive, we must support each other.
Therefore, it is disheartening to see some Black men degrading Black women, while the majority of Black men do nothing. Racialized Sexism in the Black community is unacknowledged, yet it’s rampant, as evidenced by the Desiree Washington and Mike Tyson debacle. After being indicted for sexually harassing a Black waitress, Albert Haynesworth, who is a pro-football player, famously stated that the waitress was just jealous of his white girlfriend because he didn’t date Black women.
Black men date out more than twice the rate of Black women. There is nothing wrong with a Black man marrying a non-Black woman if the relationship is based on honest love. However, we live in a culture that assigns value based on skin tone. The whiter the woman, the more value she has in society. Consequently, Black women are portrayed as unattractive, masculine, immoral, emasculating and trashy.
Black men, in contrast, are portrayed as hyper-masculine, strong and athletic. These stereotypes harm Black men in the economic and political realm, but they are prized in the athletic and pop-culture realm. As a result, Black men are portrayed as trendy in the pop-culture sense, while Black women are not.
Some Black men go into interracial relationships because they’ve been indoctrinated with these stereotypes, because they’re ashamed of Black women’s low status or because of internalized hatred. I have yet to see a Black female equivalent of Tommy Sotomayor, SrgtWilliePete, Slim Thug or Albert Haynesworth. The closest that you can come to them is the BWE crowd, but even they have not stooped to the level of viciousness that men like Haynesworth or Sotomayor have exhibited. For this type of Black man, the love and loyalty that many Black women feel is not reciprocated.
The majority of Black men are not vicious like these characters, but more Black men need to speak against the Black men who mistreat Black women because at the end of the day, Black men and Black women DO need each other.
– Peanut, 2013.
Update (2015): While I respect and love the individual Black men in my life, my father, my brothers and other Black male friends who I care for, I no longer subscribe to the idea that any one race of man is automatically deserving of loyalty. I now believe that loyalty is earned and unrequited loyalty is unhealthy and ineffective. I empathize and understand the struggles with structural racism and I will continue to speak against such instances of structural racism whether the victim is a Black man or Black woman, or Black child, but I will do so because it is the right thing to do, not because of loyalty to any one particular group of men. I also believe that first and foremost, your personal health and safety should be a priority and if you are interacting with a man (or woman) of any race who exhibits behavior that is damaging to you, whether in a physical or emotional way, that person is not worthy of your loyalty. Therefore, my loyalty is to whoever is worthy of my loyalty, not to any one group of man in particular. Thank you.
See also:
- My views on relationships between black women and white men
- Other guest posts by Peanut:
- BWE
Excellent post, peanut.
I’d specify that we need black men to speak out against:
1. Domestic/ sexual violence against black women
2. The misogynistic messages expounded by many black male music artist
3. Sexualized racism black women face in the workplace: We need equal pay for women just as much as we need equal pay for black folks.
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Thanks Peanut. These men who feel that they most attractive women are those that are white light and bright. My Mother always instill these words in me. The Blacker The Berry, The Sweeter The Juice. My Mother was not dark, but ruddy. By learning this at an early age I learn the True Power Of Love. Today the music (Hip-Hop) is so crazy with its disrespect of our Darker Sistahs. Never knew Heaven until I live with a dark-skinned Lady who was truly Black and Proud of it. I say this in a time of need and no one is around to help them but that Black Woman I wonder would they just succumb or ask for help. The young black males today never had no one to raise them or they raised themselves. It’s ashame that they may never know the TRUE LOVE IN THEIR LIVES. Thanks for your view, PEACE!!!!
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Many of my fellow brothers have Stockholm Syndrome. Many are just plain dumb.
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Well said
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eh sotomayor is like abagond, with regards to me, in that he does not respond (at all) to my comments, but I am trying to see where he is coming from, i have let him know his style is not really going to be widely accepted as it is, and other than his issue with (i guess) his black mom or whatever twisted him like that to such a degree, at least he acknowledges the underclass and that it’s a problem, i am tryin to talk to this dude.
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Nice post! Good job Peanut.
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Reblogged this on oogenhand and commented:
Good points on mutual loyalty. Everyone can learn from this.
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Dr. Neil degrasse Tyson should be added to the list of distinguisd black gentlemen.
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[…] Black women, loyalty and Black men. […]
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Well said! In this world where individual voices can band together to shut ish down and raise things up: keeping silent does so much more harm than good. Solidarity is powerful. Now more than ever before, we do indeed need each other.
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Peanut,
I finally took a look at this Tommy Sotomayor and he is disgusting!!
I think the term “sellout” and “coon” gets applied too liberally to non-conformist black people — Tommy Sotomayor is the poster child and exemplifies every characteristic of a “sellout and a coon” —
it’s very sad that he thinks he’s actually doing a service to black America —
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Good post peanut
Ooh that doctor kinda looks like that old spice guy in the commercials lol.
Anyway I think the men who think like this are feminized, they are turning into white men. white men do studies to say which women are most attractive, now some black men are talking about light skinned women and will not date a woman who is their skin tone or darker. I saw that vid lotus flower bomb by wale and Miguel and they had a beautiful dark skinned sista in the vid and I thought good for him. But I did not know kola boof said she called him out on just having light skinned and white women in one of his other vids and that was the reason behind him putting a dark skinned woman in his vid. I think it is a shame when men have to be asked or told to put someone in their vids who looks like them. No I don’t see black women having white men in their vids and they are the lead role, and I don’t hear them making songs about light skinned men and white men they usually have a man in their vid that has their same skin tone. It is something to me how when some of us point things out it gets turned back on us. example, if we say something about how a lot of black men are brainwashed nowadays men will say well its single mothers fault for these kids turning out like this. I agree to a point but what about the kids who do have both parents but end up just as disrespectful as some of the kids without both parents. *crickets*. I was on truths blog when they were discussing what black women need to do and it had a lot of comments but when it was the post about what black men needed to do it had less comments. Both black men and women have things to work on. I don’t feel we can work on them together right now because a lot are too busy pointing blame. I feel women need to get together and work on our issues and the men need to get together and work on their issues, so there won’t be any room for bashing only constructive criticism. imo men take another man’s criticism to heart whereas if a woman says it he think she being moody or something. and women take better criticism from another woman than a man because men a lot of times are blunt and try to speak to women the way they talk to their homies.
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dang how is my comment in moderation. Good post peanut, ”
Black women are indelibly connected to Black men through our shared culture, struggle and history”
This right here ppl is what we mean when we say “our” it doesn’t mean we own each other it just means we understand each other and share the similar experiences.
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Great advise from a black man on how to show love for a black woman:
(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RqLuOLmYd1U)
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We can all agree Sotomayor is feces pile. He is quite disgusting and the epitome of misogyny. Especially when it comes to Black women.
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*Sotomayor is a feces pile*
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Good post Peanut. You made some excellent points. It’s good to know there are some sistas that love and support black men. We need to end this so called “gender war”. We need to come together and repair the black family. I also think Tommy Sotomayer is a cancer in the black community. I know black women are not perfect but he only highlights the negative aspect. I think he’s a disgrace to all black men. I for one have no problem saying it. He also has a show with the Playboy network. I think he’s an agent for the government. His sole purpose is to cause disruption in the black community. And he’s doing a very good job of it.
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This is a very good post. Loyalty to Black men is one of the reasons why I haven’t dated a White male yet. I love my Black men. I love their skin, eyes and the way they smell and walk. They are the reason why I am here today posting this. Plus I could culturally relate to them in other ways than one. I could never date a White American man. Just never could.
@Peanut
We don’t ”own” Black men. I know we prefer them dating us Sistas but they have a choice to date outside of their race if they want to.
However I don’t like the double standard with Black women dating out. Whenever a Black woman dates out, she is called a sellout for not being loyal to her Black men.
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Solesearch
Excellent post, peanut.
I’d specify that we need black men to speak out against:
1. Domestic/ sexual violence against black women
2. The misogynistic messages expounded by many black male music artist
_________________________
Here’s a handsome black man doing just that;
(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7vmJLIscyUE)
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Ok. I don’t have much to say here, as I thought the post would more specific wrt the anti-BW rhetoric from the likes of Tommy Sotomayor, srgtwilliepete et cetera. It really is more about Black women’s “loyalty” to Black men and how it isn’t really reciprocated….
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@ Fiamma
Unless Peanut wants to do it herself, I will be doing a post on Tommy Sotomayor in the coming week, God willing.
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@Why
No one cares. If you want to date a Black guy, go ahead. No one is stopping you!
Plus most Black men prefer Black women anyways. Only 10% of Black men in America date interracially and only 5.5.% are married to a non Black spouse.
@All
Please stop talking about sellout Tommy Selloutayor. He is a ugly, self hating Black man who probably feels like crap about himself is why he puts down Black women the way he does. He has no loyalty to his race or his race of women.
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I deleted comments by Why and Aaron Koveus as off topic.
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YT pays Sotomayor…i have YT friends who recently exposed him.
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@Why
”Apparantly in the dating scene its not that easy to find someone who fits all your personal criteria who is also interested in you.
Perhaps we need to address that?”
This is off topic but you do have a good point though. I find it hard to find a guy who fits my personal criteria and is interested in me too. I have high expectations. I don’t want a guy with kids at all or a jail record or uneducated. I want a Black guy or a mixed Black guy who loves Black women, loves himself, well educated, handsome, and most of all loves me. A Latino is fine with me too.
But that is hard to find.
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@ Why
Please remain on topic.
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@ kushite prince
Thank you ur highness, its good to hear a brotha say that he doesn’t agree with the bs that these ppl spew. And I do think a lot of them are used to divide us, because black ppl that want to see our community do better are not going to waste time putting each other down.
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rofl. I wonder how many chances someone gets before they are banned. lord knows it took too long for churchs to get banned.
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Peanut,
Excellent post. I’ve been thinking of doing a post on Uncle Tommy Sotomayor. Either that, or confront him on twitter. Hell, I just may do both. I’ve seen a few videos from a few black men who condemn Tommy, Willie Pete and the rest of the hater brigade. Still, like you said, more brothers need to step up against these fools.
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By the way, anyone else notices how Tommy likes to drink liquor during some of his videos?
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@ peanut
“what I was trying to allude to in my post was the idea that Black people really do need each other in this society and this culture. we have to support each other because no one else will and at the end of the day, Black people no matter how much we assilimate or how much we disown each other will still be just black to white people.”
Amen. it is a shame that we have sell outs who don’t seem to understand that no matter how they act they are still black and will be treated as such. I can’t stand will smith, and ll coon j anymore or even dr dre. they coon and look where that’s gotten them. black ppl need to support each other that is true, but we can’t blindly support ppl who look like us but don’t think like us or would be willing to sell us out. we can’t be saying I can’t stand Michael Jordan but still buy his shoes, we can’t be saying ooh I can’t stand dr dre for giving that money to a white college instead of hbcu, and still buy his headphones. I say we support the ones who are like minded and have love for their community and disown the ones that don’t. we need to make it a point to uplift the ppl who are conscious and ignore the ignorant ones, don’t reward bad behavior.
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@Mstoogood4yall
Yup, I am for Black unity too but there are a lot of Blacks who there who will side with a White person before they side with their own people. I believe that Blacks need to build up their own community without government assistance, help or Whites. We need to stop relying on the government!
”I used to be very white-washed as I went to a predominately white school and I did everything that I could do blend in, I straightened my hair and basically put on a mask to appease white people at the school, I avoided discussing issues of racism and really kept quiet. I assimilated as best as I could and at the end of the day when it came down to it, I still got turned away for a summer job because I was Black”
Yes I was the very same way growing up until high school. I was Whitewashed too until my freshmen year of high school. I moved to this White area, Ocala, Florida when I was eight years old from the rough areas of Brooklyn, New York. My experience being bullied by racist White girls at my Catholic high school. They hated me yet they were fascinated by me at the very same time. It was in my freshmen year, I woke up and realized how racism could affect me. I started reading this blog after that experience and commenting last year. This blog really helped me heal from that experience of being bullied.
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@ brothawolf
Thank u brotha for condemning this behavior from “men” like tommy this is what we need to do, separate ourselves from these parasites. I didn’t know he was drinking lol all I see is a coffe cup so I guess it’s not coffee in there. I guess he needs to drink to get that liquid courage to say what he wants. I do wonder how his mother feels about what he says.
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I forgot to mention this, but Willie Pete ended up getting pwned for his own ignorance and self-hatred when he made a video siding with a white racist quest. Even though his friends tried to salvage his failure, it didn’t work because he was eventually kicked out and banned from Youtube, Dailymotion and many video sites. Yet, this fool still blogs on a very lesser known video site with only a small fraction of an audience.
Like I said, there are brothas who step up against this foolishness. There is a Tumblr site that is dedicated to the beauty of black women. It is not pornographic in any way. Here is the link:
http://fuckyeahdarkgirls.com/
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@BrothaWolf
Have you done anything to step up to Tommy Selloutayor? I can’t stand him as much as you can either but more Black men need to step up to this man. He is putting down Black women and stereotyping them. Thus he is furthering the cause of White supremacy.
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Adeen
I made a comment about one of his vids. He didn’t respond, but an angry viewer did claiming I was “attacking him”. I believe he was black too. I also found out that he has a few accounts on Youtube. I don’t know if they’re all active, but if so, he seems hellbent to on his black women hating movement.
I did, however, make a post about this kind of behavior a while back and it applies to Tommy especially:
http://brothawolf.wordpress.com/2011/11/21/when-brothas-hate-sistas/
I was thinking for the longest to do a post just on him. I also thought about raising awareness on Twitter as I’ve seen he has a lot of followers, some of them are black women too!
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” I believe that Blacks need to build up their own community without government assistance, help or Whites. We need to stop relying on the government!”
This was Malcolm X’s idea. MLK’s idea was to work with the government to change it.
Obviously the government was less threatened by that than they were by Malcolm’s separatist ideas.
Abagond, my point about not finding a compatible black person who meets all your requirements and who ALSO wants you back IS very much on topic.
It is one of the reasons Black people end up dating or marrying non-Black people.
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@Brotha Wolf: Now that’s crazy he got black women following him? I don’t know what to say about that. Black folks need healing in a bad way.
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I’m not seeing very many reply’s from my brothers as to why we are so disloyal to our sister’s. Are we just natural born race traitors?
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@ brothawolf
great article u did. I saw a huff post about tommy and that he offended the gay community so I think his time is almost up lol
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@ black thought
I don’t think black men are natural born race traitors, I think some are created due to environmental, and social factors. I’m grateful when any black men come forward and defend us sistahs. Then I feel like there is hope, if there are a few black men that do get it I am happy.
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@ Brotha Wolf: I remember that thread. I even commented on that one. That thread parallels this one.
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I think these black men who bash black women are looking for white male validation. They may go on about how they don’t like white men but they look for approval. White men say black women are unattractive, they say black women are unattractive. someone posted a link on the interracial thread about how white men view black women and it is the same as these black woman bashers. The white men were talking about how they are attracted to light skinned or mixed women like Alicia keyes. Those black men talk about liking light skinned or mixed women. white men call black women the n and b word, these black men call black women the b word and themselves the n word. So they just basically recycling what massa has said, they are massa jr.smh
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@ kiwi
“I have a book narrated by an Asian woman who fantasizes about having sex with white men.”
BURN THAT BOOK
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@Brothawolf,
As i said on open thread, willie pete is a mixed race Black guy who has been rejected by Black women–or at least never got an Alpha Black women…
he basically said that in so many words.
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@ phoebeprunell: If this willie pete character is who you say he is then that makes him a loser. So this sorry excuse for a man has some personal issues,and he is on a crusade to put down Black women. Because he could secure the so called Alpha woman of his dreams. That is so sad.
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* Because he couldn’t secure the Alpha woman*
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@miss mary b. yes sotomayor can’t handle an alpha woman.
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@v8driver: This makes him and his kind pathetic losers, I don’t care what race or ethnicity they are.
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sotomayor is culturally acclimatized to a alpha female african american woman from the underclass it is a little different then all us college grads and bloggers and people of the pen and ideas like that
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Mstoogood4yall writes:
“I think these black men who bash black women are looking for white male validation.”
– – –
I think you might be on to something with the above state, Mstoogood4yall.
My own impression as to why some Black men try their darndest to separate / differentiate themselves from Black women is due to a desire to establish themselves not *just* as Black men, but as men, period, and the best way to do that, in their minds, is to emulate the head “Honcho”, the American white male, in his disdain for women who are Black, and which is also quite evident.
Also, teenage males of all races can be strikingly misogynistic; it is seen as way to separate themselves from their mother’s ‘apron strings’ in an attempt to establish themselves not as boys but as real men. The problem is that many / most of these disgustingly misogynistic BW haters are long past their teen years and still seem to be attempting to differeniate themselves from the women who reared them.
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so many typos lol…I won’t even bother to correct them.
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@ Fiamma: Even with the typos I understood your comment.
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@ Fiamma: If what you say in your comments is are true then that’s sad commentary on the psyche of some black males. That just shows how enslaved some are in their minds. I said some not all. I think it’s important for me to put emphasis on the word some. I don’t feel this is the case of all black men. But there is a disturbing amount of black men with this mindset.
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Serves me right for trying to eat my 3 spoonsful of Boston Market sweet potatoes (which is my complete dinner, actually, as it’s all I’ll allow myself since it is so bad for me) and trying to type at the same time. I see that I’m not the only one who stopped by Boston Market this evening lol.
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Very nice post, Peanut. A picture of Denzel and lovely wife Pauletta would have done well.*I hope I didn’t jinx them* Although of pic of Dr. Ben Carson is a great one because he truly had a deep respect and love for his mother. Maybe that is the crux of the issue re: these brain damaged Black men disrespecting a reflection of themselves (ie.their mothers)
It’s embarrassing to see such boys masquerading as men. Kevin Hart is one that comes to mind that has a history of bashing Black women. They are a lost cause to me. Damaged goods, I say good riddance.
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Whenever I hear men talking like that about women at all I always view that man more closely because what he’s doing is really telling you about himself.
And it’s all the same meme anyway. From the so called “fake geek girl ” to the b -in the ‘hood, basically what a man like that is saying is that he’s been rejected by some woman or women he wanted. And since he feels he’s entitled to have any woman he wants the failure to procure her is not on his end. Its on hers. And not just her but all women.
Essentially it’s the Aesop’s fable story of the “sour grapes ” on a macro level. It means that he tried to pursue a woman who had standards and values and was rejected. He has decided to reject these women before they can reject him. Its much easier to bash such women then to go out into the world and improve their game by establishing some standards and values their own. In other words instead of trying to become the kind of man that a woman with standards wants, he’s decided they aren’t worth that effort. That way he never has to look at himself or his own behaviour.
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@ lifelearner: Yeah, I am feeling some kind of way about Kevi Hart as well. And what I am feeling is not good. But lots of sisters have mad love for him. I just thought it was little man syndrome.
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@Mary Burrell and Brotha Wolf
Tommy Selloutayor is a loser. He shouldn’t put down his own race of women ever. Look at him, he is so ugly that it is unreal! He is a sellout that is furthering the cause of White supremacy and making others hate Black women as much as he does.
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*Kevin Hart*
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@ Adeen: In that picture it looks like he has chronic halitosis.
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Mary, you are right in emphasizing that is only “some Black men” — and it’s only a vocal few actually. However, even in saying any of this, some will take it to mean “ALL Black men” are being put on Blast, but that is not at all my intention.
Actually, though, I 9ersonally would like to get down to brass tacks, as it were, concerning issues surrounding relations Black women and Black men, as certain objective criticisms on both sides seem to go intentionally unspoken or tiptoed around, due to sensitivities and a desire to avoid hurt feelings….
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@ Fiamma: I concur. There are problems on both sides. And it hasn’t been addressed.
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LoL Tommy Sotomayor doesn’t look all that bad to me. He’s quick-witted too. I like that. It’s just too bad he is a misogynist. Describing women as “beasties” and such. 😦
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@Ikeke: If the man who was trying to attract the woman with certain characteristics that they desired and failed and got rejected and then is just so butt hurt and it just festers inside and they blame all of the women of that group. Instead of doing self reflection and trying to figure out where he went wrong and correct his mistakes would be the thing to do in my opinion. If an individual is trying to attract someone then they need to do self work. I am learning this myself.
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@ phoebeprunelle
“As i said on open thread, willie pete is a mixed race Black guy who has been rejected by Black women–or at least never got an Alpha Black women…”
– What is your idea of “Alpha Woman”? If its similar to the stereotype of “Alpha Male” then I’m not so sure many, if any, men desire that.
The general complaint from both the White and the Black “Manosphere” seems to be that women are no longer feminine and well, just plain nice, like they used to be back in Grandma’s day.
They don’t mean dumb and docile. They mean women who comport themselves with grace, dignity, and feminine charm.
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@ peanut
ew battle of the bods is very sexist. I just watched the women ranking themselves and I noticed the blonde kept trying to put herself number 1 in everything. the black woman just kinda hung back and didn’t say much. imo how the women acted shows how society views can shape how they feel about themselves. Society is all about blondes, so that is why the blonde kept trying to put herself at number one. The black woman just went to last place because that is how society treats us and we know how others view us.
as for the man saying the black woman looks like a man that was uncalled for.
its one thing to like someone its another thing to talk bad about the ppl you don’t find attractive. Its like they feel the need to add salt to a wound. heres how it is black man bashes black woman calls her a man and unattractive and uplifts non black woman to step up and get white praise, then white woman steps on his back and get on the pedestal with white man by her side. It is not worth throwing others under the bus because u will end up there too. I hope an extra 15 seconds of praise and fame is worth it for throwing ppl under the bus who look like u. Know that when u get ur ninja moment I will not care, get those ppl u put on a pedestal to help u. I can forgive but will not forget if u bash black women then turn around and expect us to have sympathy, my parents didn’t raise no fool.
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In reference to the video. I was sad for the young black woman. I thought she was just as attractive as the white females. Those black guys were acting like bone heads. They say beauty is in the eye of the beholder. But I think something else was going on here. I hate to keep going on about them being haters of Black women, but that’s what that looked like to me. And I feel there was the issue of colorism going on as well. Sad commentary on the Black community. I hope the young black woman can still emerge from that experience on that show with her self esteem intact. I hope she knows she’s lovely.
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Plus that show was very sexist. Women are more than just body parts. But sadly society only values exterior appearances. Forget that the woman maybe have a brilliant mind and be talented and have other things going for them. Men are visual creatures.
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Haha, many men would probably view me as an “Alpha female”.
I do not look like or carry myself in the way that a man does (i.e., I’m very much female / ‘feminine’ in appearance), but, I don’t generally take a backseat to anyone simply because he is male. I learned that might (physical strength) doesn’t make right at an early age grewing up in a household where ‘the man’ was ostensibly the decision-maker, but as he had such poor judgment, ‘the woman’ of the house had to affect decision-making underhandly so that the family could manage to stay afloat while not living in the Dark Ages. Such is life.
Surprisingly enough, though, there have been plenty of men who are appreciative of women such as myself. [For the record, I’m not the under-handed manipulative type; though I do understand why some women might resort to that kind of behavior, being that there are many men who think that women to ‘submit’ to them. I myself am more the above-board, equal standing type. Hey, it’s worked for me thus far.]
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Great post , Peanut, everyone should be free to make the choices they want and not be judged
I am concerned that the image of the black woman is not given the value they truly deserve
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@Mary Burrell
That is what I go through at my school. Although I look good, Black men still pass me up for White girls and non Black girls. I don’t know why. It is like people think there is something wrong with Black girls.
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@ fiamma
“Also, teenage males of all races can be strikingly misogynistic; it is seen as way to separate themselves from their mother’s ‘apron strings’ in an attempt to establish themselves not as boys but as real me”
Yes and they act like the young men who try to be good boyfriends but their friends say man u been whipped, and u shouldn’t do that for her,etc. then they listen to them and lose out on a good woman because they were too busy listening to everybody else telling them how they should act and treat their lady. That is what these black women bashers are doing, listening to everybody else on what woman is acceptable and what ones aren’t instead of them being men and taking a person on an individual basis. it is foolish to bash someone who looks like u. I would never bash black men because I was created by one and to bash black men would be to bash who I am and my father, uncles who are good men. they bash black women because we remind them of who they are what they are not,and where they come from[our womb]. uplifting non black women is their way of separating themselves from us, and gaining favor with whites. But the flaw with that is they will never be seen as white or fully accepted. So when they see white men bashing black women they jump on the bandwagon because in some twisted way it is their way of bonding with massa, its like hunting bonds men, now bashing black women becomes a sport and they have that in common. reminds me of that boondocks episode where uncle ruckus was singing racist country songs with a white country singer lol
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@ adeen
there is nothing wrong with black girls, those are immature ” men” I use that term loosely. they can’t get past someone’s outside appearance they are not worth anyone’s time. Those are the kind of men who will stay in broken relationships because they just look at the outside. My brother is learning the hard way that u need to look at how a woman acts and not how she looks. It takes men a while to get this because they are visual, but when they’ve been stepped on too many times by attractive women then they will get it. There will be a man someday that will appreciate who you are, until then just keep ur head up and don’t settle. some black men get with a dark skinned woman get her pregnant then leave, and bash dark skinned women and date someone who is lighter [ochocinco]. they are ok with using a woman they aren’t attracted to and then marrying another woman. So don’t waste ur time with men like that as they will only mess u up and make it harder for u to get a good man.
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People think Tommy Sotomayor hates black women but that’s not it. He’s tired of watching black women destroy their children’s lives and the community with trashy behavior. He’s trying to shame them into changing. Some women take it personally and get angry. But their anger is proof that shaming works. I support Tommy and think trashy behavior should be mocked until people stop. If nothing else, it draws a line between what’s acceptable and what’s not.
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The black men on YT that bash BW claimed their first victim in 2009, Asia McGowen. She had a YT channel and attracted the attention of one of the rabid black woman haters, Anthony Powell. He was into SWP’s philosophy that BW are the source of all black male suffering. He went to her college and shot her in class. Even after her murder black males did not go to YT to defend BW, that instinct has been bred out of them.
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hIgfsno-hQQ)
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Mr. Piggle-Wiggle, I listened to Sotomayor before and couldn’t stomach more than 5 minutes. He comes across as low IQ and anti-intellectual.
I also believe in shaming dead beat moms and other unsavory types. And if these are the women Sotomayor is calling out, then there’s no need for normal, good women to get offended because he is not talking about us.
However, a better strategy would be for an intelligent, proper speaking, above average IQ man to shame the dead beat moms and unsavory types by IGNORING THEM and very loudly proclaiming the glories of virtuous, ethical women.
Instead, Sotomayor and men like him just give the dead beats the attention they crave.
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I don’t think mocking or shaming someone to change will work.example If a person is overweight u picking on them will not work it will only make them be emotional eaters and gain more weight. Same thing with shaming black women it will not work. If u attack a black woman for something u don’t agree with like weave it will not work and walls will go up. But if u say hey I like how u look natural and u don’t need to change ur hair that is more effective. women like compliments and ppl like having a reward for changing. Positive reinforcement and providing a constructive activity to replace destructive ones is what works, not putting ppl down. I will never be ok with hurting someone else to get them to change. If someone is an alcoholic by u saying hey stop drinking and u are no good that will push them to drink more, but if u say I want u to get better and here is a number for a program ,that would be more effective. its one thing to call someone out its another thing to tell them what they are doing wrong and provide a solution. Progress will not come about without change, and change will not come about without a plan. before u make a plan u need to figure out the problem and come up with a solution. most of what tommy does is point out the problem. Conscious black ppl who are invested in fixing our community look at the problems and try to find solutions and ask for input. Tommy does none of these things.
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Black guy at Stillwater, OK talks about black athletes being accused of rape by WW. He knows of five. He says he was told by his grandparents no IRR and it has kept him safe. Starts at 5:40
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6uMPh_BUbYA)
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@ phoebeprunelle
As i said on open thread, willie pete is a mixed race Black guy who has been rejected by Black women–or at least never got an Alpha Black women…
he basically said that in so many words.
‘So many words’ is right. At the time of his popularity he had literally hundreds of videos 90% of them condemning black women for this, that and the other. To him, black women are just screwed up.
Mr. Piggle-Wiggle
People think Tommy Sotomayor hates black women but that’s not it. He’s tired of watching black women destroy their children’s lives and the community with trashy behavior. He’s trying to shame them into changing. Some women take it personally and get angry. But their anger is proof that shaming works. I support Tommy and think trashy behavior should be mocked until people stop. If nothing else, it draws a line between what’s acceptable and what’s not.
In my opinion if you make countless videos condemning any black woman or black women in general more so than making videos uplifting and praising them, then there is disdain involved without question. And I’ve unforunately seen some videos that are just misogynistic in tone. So yes, this is indeed a problem.
Why does he and those like him think that black women are the source for the destruction of black children and the community? Have black women cut off funds to education to predominately black schools? Have black women influenced the strong influx of black youth into prison for the most mundane of offenses in school? Did black women send drugs and guns into our communities? Did black women gentrify those communities? Has any black woman as police officers harassed, assaulted and murdered black youth? Has black women as correctional officers abuse and rape black male prisoners? Have black women given crooked banks a bailout even though they caused the biggest economic disaster in modern history since the Great Depression?
What good has shaming done to anyone or any group? Has it committed a majority of them to actually change? And if they change, do they change for the better or for the worse? Is Sotomayor truly shaming black women because he genuinely wants to see them improve themselves? Does he THINK that (most) black women are damaged into “destroying the black community”? Worse, does he prefer that black women are subservient to the needs of black women i.e. barefoot, pregnant and quiet?
Lastly, I heard Sotomayor has a daughter. Does he lay his antics onto her provided that it’s true he has a daughter?
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Mstoogood4yall,
I don’t think mocking or shaming someone to change will work.example If a person is overweight u picking on them will not work it will only make them be emotional eaters and gain more weight. Same thing with shaming black women it will not work. If u attack a black woman for something u don’t agree with like weave it will not work and walls will go up. But if u say hey I like how u look natural and u don’t need to change ur hair that is more effective. women like compliments and ppl like having a reward for changing. Positive reinforcement and providing a constructive activity to replace destructive ones is what works, not putting ppl down. I will never be ok with hurting someone else to get them to change. If someone is an alcoholic by u saying hey stop drinking and u are no good that will push them to drink more, but if u say I want u to get better and here is a number for a program ,that would be more effective. its one thing to call someone out its another thing to tell them what they are doing wrong and provide a solution. Progress will not come about without change, and change will not come about without a plan. before u make a plan u need to figure out the problem and come up with a solution. most of what tommy does is point out the problem. Conscious black ppl who are invested in fixing our community look at the problems and try to find solutions and ask for input. Tommy does none of these things.
Thank you! Shaming people will do nothing but hurt feelings and encourage more bad behavior. All that person is doing is insulting the other person destroying them further.
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Mstoogoodforyal writes:
“…they are ok with using a woman they aren’t attracted to and then marrying another woman. So don’t waste ur time with men like that as they will only mess u up and make it harder for u to get a good man.”
– – –
I think that on some level MANY of these guys are attracted to the darker-skinned women they get into sexual relationships with; it’s just that they don’t view the women as being ‘acceptable’ to their homeboys (or to the racist mind-set that says white, or any thing which approaches it, is right) so, they hide them in the background while showcasing women who appear to be more ‘acceptable’.
I am not a darker-skinned woman, so, I’m not saying this to protect my own feelings or interests.
Darker skinned girls, there is nothing “wrong” with your complexion, your hair or your features; it is only white supremacy / racism which affects the minds of certain people to make it SEEM that there is something amiss. If history had gone in a different direction, white women (it always seems to be women) would be the ones denigrated for their complexions / appearances. I repeat *there is nothing at all wrong with darker complexions* on anyone (I myself, with a light honey complexion, think that the very BLACKEST of complexions are just stunningly beautiful…the few people I’ve seen with this type of coloring, still stand out in my memory with the passage of time. While I know that darker skinned individuals suffer from the ignorance of others wrt skin color, and while I do appreciate my own complexion, and all things being equal, I would love to have a blue black complexion… and, as bad as it sounds, no one could tell me sh-t!. lol)
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@Piggy Wiggy
You are a sick individual and a sorry excuse for a troll. You have to be the worst troll ever defending that Tommy Selloutayor! You are a disgrace! Not all Black women are bad and destroy their children’s lives. Stop listening to Tommy Selloutayor and think outside the box!
@Fiamma
I am a darker complexion Black woman and honestly I liked your post. You came off as secure and honest. I have had many Black men tease me for my features and I felt ugly because of it or when guys at school don’t pay attention to me. Or call me ”pretty for a Black girl”.
I am still single and almost eighteen and almost about to give up finding a guy. What is a young, Black girl to do in this society that hates her sex and race?
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@Peanut
Tommy Selloutayor is actually helping the cause of White supremacy in this racist country. He is further dividing Black men and Black women in this country and intensifying the gender war that Black males and Black females are facing right now. Tommy Selloutayor is nothing but an ugly, insecure Black male who wants to put out his insecurities onto Black women and thus praising White women in the process. He, like many Black men, hate their own race of women and date out so that they could be accepted by Whites, which they will never find that acceptance. Tommy Selloutayor and many Black men will find out the hard way how it really is out there.
@Mstoogood4yall
Thank you for your response but sometimes I feel like I will never find a man in a million years. Most Black men want non Black women and Whites guys, well you know. I think I will never find someone and will stay single forever.
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@Peanut
I am very happy about your responses. I can relate to your struggles. Where is Bahia? I am not shocked that Black women were greeted with respect in Bahia. I hear stories of Black women getting more respected outside of Amerikkklan. Thanks for your response and I do plan on traveling outside of America.
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@Brothawolf
Thank God for Black men like you who love Black women and don’t like sellout self haters like Tommy Selloutayor. I applaud you for defending Black women. Honestly I don’t think this should be an issue because I would like to think that Black men loved their women but that is not the case. Especially when Black men date out and diss Black women.
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@Mstoogood4yall
Thank you sis. I just want sistas to know they are appreciated. And there are brothers that love you and stand by you. 🙂
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Tommy’s show has talked about guys who suck-up to women.
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@Piggle Wiggle
He was not ”sucking” up to women. He was merely defending Black women. Tommy Sotomayor has issues to be putting down Black women the way he does.
I am not ghetto, rude or loud yet he wants to stereotype all Black women like that.
Troll, get a life!
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It’s amazing to me when people say the problems in society, specifically the black community are causes by single mothers or single motherhood.
It’s all how you frame it. The problem isn’t with the single mother. It’s with the absentee father.
Studies show that even when the parents are married most if the child rearing is done by the mother. So I’m not surprised that when the parents split up that the father has even less to do with his children.
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@ Adeen: UnfortunatIely,You are still in American teenage high school wasteland. It’s tough, boys that age are very immature. Just keeping your head above water in the hostile environment of high school is tough. I know you will be successful and come out a survivor. .It’s equally another challenge with the misogynistic music that young people listen to. Especially young black people that look up to rappers with their negative messages of black female bashing. I feel you will make it.
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Speaking of Dark skinned women. Bill Duke’s Dark Girls will be airing on Oprah’s OWN network tonight it should be interesting.
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@ Fiamma
GOod point. I didn’t mean it in a way that dark skinned women aren’t attractive, I just meant that the men will be with someone, then diss them and call them unattractive after they have slept with them and got them pregnant and are with a lighter skinned woman. I was just saying they will use them and not say any of those things while they are with them, but the moment they leave they calling the woman every name in the book, and uplifting the new woman they with.
@ adeen
well u never know maybe some day u will find someone. I’m single too and so are other women on here, so ur not alone. There’s nothing wrong with being single u have time to yourself and get to know who u are and what you’d want and don’t want in a partner. The best thing to do is enjoy life.
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@ mary
and they have a show about dark skinned girls that’s going to be on bet as well. Very interesting that they are making these shows now when we have been complaining about this issue of not having dark skinned women seen in a good light. I feel it is an attempt to try to undo some damage has already been caused or maybe its for ratings, especially coming from bet, they the ones who allow those vids airtime from artists that diss dark skinned women smh.
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@ Mstoogood4yall: I didn’t know about BET,since I never watch BET. But that’s interesting that two shows should be airing on the same night on the same topic. And it parallels with the subject we are addressing on this thread.
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^ I can’t find the one that I thought was going to be on bet maybe it was the own network and I got it confused lol.
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Raised by a black woman and married to my black queen for 18 years. Why would I want to marry an inferior woman?
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On Ben Carson; Peanut are you aware that Carson has become a puppet for the GOP?
Regarding the “Battle of the Bods” video. Please don’t forget who is casting shows like this and who these shows are made for. The White people that cast these types of shows are looking for specific types of Black people. And, these shows are not made to be entertainment for the general population. They are for the pleasure of White folks and specifically White men.
On the overall topic: I actually think the amount of time devoted to these sort of conversations is way out of proportion to the numbers of Black men who denigrate Black women. Most Black men date and marry Black women. Most Black men aren’t in the media promoting hatred of Black women. So, to make this seem like a thing is sort of lumping all Black men in as one, IMO.
Anyway, we just seem to spend a lot of time discussing “dating out” etc. when the numbers of those doing so don’t add up to any overwhelming trends.
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@ Val: Hey Val, Happy Sunday and you are right about Carson. I read about him and the Republicans,I was disappointed. Glad to hear from you today.
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@Val,
I can agree with you!
@ Peanut, willie pete did mention in one of his videos that he is mixed. I can’t find the video now as many of them have been taken down…
@Why– i would address your question if i sensed that you were trying to have an open and honest discussion without imposing your views.
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I’ll just cut the crap Val and post this vid…
(http://youtu.be/X81bjNJkLpA)
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@ Val: That makes sense, I should always keep in mind who these shows are aimed at. I get so angry watching these types of things. The white media has an agenda to help destroy Black people. The white washed Blacks are aiding white supremacy and that’s sickening. I wish Blacks would wake up and realize they are being used as pawns.
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Concerning Battle of The Bods. I wish Black people wouldn’t participate in these types of shows.
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Hiya, Mary! Happy Sunday to you as well.
Yeah, Ben Carson is proving that book smart does not always equate to being smart.
“The white media has an agenda to help destroy Black people.”
This is true now and has always been true. The media is a White Supremacist’s tool. And, no Black person should consume media without knowing this and understanding the history of it.
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@Phoebeprunelle
I saw a bit of the vid. I think most people realize that folks like Sotomayor are seriously damaged mentally. They are so weak that they’ve internalized every negative thing said about Black folks and now spew racist hate speech better than the originators of it.
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Solesearch
“It’s all how you frame it. The problem isn’t with the single mother. It’s with the absentee father. ”
I disagree. It may take two to tango but fathers aren’t the ones getting pregnant. Why are these women so quick to spread they legs for some guy who won’t stick around? Why aren’t they getting married first? Why aren’t they using birth controls? Women say it’s their body and they can do whatever they want with it. If it’s their body then it’s their responsibility.
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@Val
Ben Carson is another house Negro being used by the GOP to further their agenda. I can’t believe that such a well educated Black man can’t see through the racisr bs of the GOP.
And Tommy Selloutayor is only furthering the cause of White supremacy of putting down Black women and in the process, elevating White women. What a sellout he is.
@Mary and Mstoogood4yall
Thanks for your encouraging responses.
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@ Adeen: I so appreciate you responding. Keep your head up. All the teenage stuff is temporary. Keep thinking about your amazing future as a journalist. Be prepared. Prepare, study.
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@Adeen
I agree on both.
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@Peanut
Thanks for your responses and yes, I hate my generation and everything about it. Why wasn’t I a teenager in the late 1970s early 1980s? The music (Michael Jackson, Queen, Led Zeppelin, Blondie, Hall and Oates, etc)was much better back then as well as the TV shows and pop culture in general.
Yes I would love to visit Bahia one day but not live there, I have heard many stories about colorism and racism in Brazil and no, I wouldn’t travel to Southern Brazil. My mother, who visited Brazil, told me that many White Brazilians are racist and are cruel to Black Brazilians and people in general.
I hope I survive high school with a sane mind! I really do.
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@Piggle Wiggle
LOL I am not stupid, you really internalized Tommy Selloutayor’s message about Black women. I am not the problem. I never had a baby out of wedlock nor do I plan to. So stop coming on here and putting down Black women.
I look forward to continuing my education not being a baby mama, thank you very much. Get a life and please, stop coming on here. You have to be the dumbest troll yet on Abagond!
@Van and Mary
Thanks for agreeing with me.
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@ mary
“I wish Black people wouldn’t participate in these types of shows.”
I agree. I also would add the real world black ppl need to stop going on that show as well. They always cast a black person who is loud and starts things or has a short fuse.
@ all
Avoid conversations with the troll
They will lie, they’ll make excuses, they’ll use stats they don’t really know
And if they get real desperate they may start to cuss or throw out racial slurs.
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Adeen: Stop talking to the stupid troll, This is what he/wants. Trolls sole purpose is to yank other commenters chains.
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Mstoogood4yall, I agree with your comments. And we do need to stop responding to the troll.
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@ all
don’t feed this:
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Mstoogood4yall: LOL!
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So is yours Mary –to me, everyone’s Opinions have worth because we’re all coming from different places in life.. it makes for an interesting view.
debates are healthy, as long as someone, somewhere gets something (hopefully positive) from it
and aren’t you up there in numbers too 🙂 I’m sure you have some wisdom to drop from “being there and having done that”
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you’re welcome, Mr Piggle-Wiggle
but Tommy Sotomayer really can go kick rocks —
black people in America fought really hard to be ” seen and heard” in white mainstream media and society in general…
by using the Internet to debase or shame black “ghetto” women, he is spitting on all the hard work that made it possible for him, a black man, to even have a platform to speak from.
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Adeen, your mother’s life was all too common back then but in the end, everything worked out — that’s why she probably has high expectations from you as the 1st generation American.
I sent my children to both Jamaica and Honduras (to my poor relatives) so that they could understand where our family was coming from and learn to respect where they are coming from.
because living in “rich” country(s) like USA, Canada, or UK makes people forget that they have freedoms and choices that many people don’t have back home.
anyway, don’t want to stay off topic… back to the conversation at hand 🙂
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@ Linda: LOL! Yes, I am up in the numbers. But I try to do that and it was ignored. I try to encourage young Adeen. She appreciates some things I have to say. I try not to preach.
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[I start at the bottom of the comments and scroll up and reply in order, so I while I have missed the entire conversation that would have led to the following comment that Peanut replied to just a few above, I will most likely read up into the conversation and comment in response. Just so y’all know why it appears I’m commenting from last to first – because I am!]
Quoting someone that Peanut quoted (haven’t got to the original comment itself yet)….
“Black men, in contrast, are portrayed as hyper-masculine, strong and athletic. These stereotypes harm Black men in the economic and political realm, but they are prized in the athletic and pop-culture realm. As a result, Black men are portrayed as trendy in the pop-culture sense, while Black women are not.”
– I disagree that Black women are not seen as trendy in the pop-culture sense. “Ghetto booty” is so popular that women are getting surgery to get one. Those that can’t afford that are buying padding at Wal-Mart.
Collegen pumping for lips? Check.
Tanning booths to get darker, more mocha-ized skin? Check.
Finger snappin’, head rollin’? Check. Check.
The stereotype of the “strong, independent, Black woman” that can channel her inner ghetto gyal when needed is very present and very copied in mainstream popular culture amongst non-Black women as well.
Whether this is a good or bad thing, or a mix of both, is debatable.
But I can tell you this for sure – the “Black Manosphere” is quite fed up with the “strong, independent black woman” trope, whether in the media or in real life.
Remember the movie “Not Easily Broken”?
Well the female lead, Clarise, and her mom, portray the epitome of the type of Black women the Black Manosphere is sick of.
Are their characters totally some script writer’s head trip with no basis in reality? Or do we all know a “Clarise and mom” or two in our own lives?
Where did this “strong, independent Black woman” meme get its origins?
Discuss.
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“Peanut,
do you guys think its more destructive when one of the race’s sex is portrayed as more desirable than the other?”
Linda says,
If black men are being portrayed this way .. Good for them.
For the longest time, they were portrayed as “beasts and savages”… they deserve the break and a good “image” after all these years.
Thanks to Sports and Music, black men have acquired this “virtual” desirability and the media has condescended to showcase them as objects of desire.
It’s just sad that they can’t see fit to continue uplifting black women with this new “look”
as the saying goes, “chivalry is dead” and I blame this on older black men for not raising their sons to “respect” their black mothers and sisters.
Even if a marriage ends in divorce, if the family works as a functional unit, the children will benefit from being raised by a man and a woman… women cannot teach boys how to be men.
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Black men are the most desired, Black women are excoriated.
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@ peanut
“do you guys think its more destructive when one of the race’s sex is portrayed as more desirable than the other?”
Yes and no. I think yes when the one being portrayed as desirable gets a huge ego and feels like I’m better than u and is mean to the other gender. I think no only if they don’t bash the other gender for not being looked at as being in right now. Trends come and go but family is forever, so if u burn a bridge don’t be surprised when ppl reject u because u rejected them. Even ppl that are like turn the other cheek get fed up and disown ppl who disown them. I will not be played.
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@Why
Thank you very much, you are very encouraging. I will try to have better self esteem and you are right about my situation. Your response really made my day 🙂
@ALL
Honestly I have had low self esteem since I became a teenager because I didn’t look like the ”beautiful” women on TV. I didn’t have light skin, long, flowing hair or light eyes. My butt was considered too big until Kim Kardashian came along with her big booty self but it was actually Melyssa Ford that made me like my booty. I am not thick like her; I am skinny however I do have a butt. I relaxed my hair to make my hair straight but it didn’t work. I went natural and I have been relaxer free since 2010. I also wished for bigger breasts because guys in my class paid attention to girls with bigger tits than me. Nor did I get attention from guys unless I was dressed up pretty and guys would approach me only for sex.
Plus I also wore weaves and whenever I took them out, I felt ugly. I don’t wear them anymore and in a way, I am happy because then I could see who I really am in the mirror instead of a photocopy of myself.
I would get shocked whenever someone calls me pretty or beautiful too.
I know I have to address this problem in order to fix it even if it means getting off topic. I need to feel better about myself and Why is right.
@Why again
I do agree that children should be brought up with two parents who are married and love each other.
@Linda
Yes my mother does have high expectations of me and I am glad she does, in a way
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Oprah said she didn’t want to build school here because here kids skip school and nobody cares, whereas over there they are more grateful and ambitious.
“”If you ask the kids what they want or need [in the US], they will say an iPod or some sneakers,’ she’s quoted as saying (Oprah built $40 million school). ‘In South Africa, they don’t ask for money or toys. They ask for uniforms so they can go to school.'” ~oprah
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@Mstoogood4yall
Oprah’s school for girls in Africa is a very good example of giving back and I like that. We need more people in our community who are willing to give back and help build schools for Blacks kids in America to learn. I find it terrible that many rich Blacks don’t give back to our community and instead put the money in the White community.
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Peanut,
“here is the funny thing about the collagen, lip injectiosn and booty implants…people wont’ give credit to black women for having these featuers”
I’m not a huge media consumer but I do watch some TV and movies from time to time. And I have seen it mentioned that “black women have the natural curves we are going for” etc. I have heard it mentioned in the media about “white flat butts” and “asian flat butts” etc.
Either you have really not been exposed to this in the media or you have goggles on that filters it out. I know when I was on a militant feminist trip I only saw sexism and misogyny everywhere. Since I’ve taken off those goggles, I’m seeing more positive stuff.
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I guess Oprah had to get a good return in her investment with the African girls. But I still think it’s sad there is nobody to help mentor young Black women.
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@ mary
did jorbia get banned or something? what did she say?
Yea the young black girls here do need a mentor or a school for them, as well as the young black men. heck we just need a new black school system
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@Mstoogood4yall: We can talk about that open thread.
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@Why
Black women are known for having curvier figures such as big butts, bigger breasts, wide thighs, etc. I go to school with White girls and most White women aren’t curvy at all. Most of them at my school are either skinny, average weight or fat. However I do see some with curves such as bigger breast and a few with big butts. And Asian women are skinny most of the time.
Sad to say but most of the Black girls at my school are either slightly overweight to bordering on obese. There are a few skinny Black girls like me but they are rare. Even curvy Black women are rare at my school. It is not to say that most Black women aren’t curvy but that is the way it is at my school.
@Mstoogood4yall
There needs to be a school for Black girls like me to get educated and learn our history. We are really the maligned and invisible women in society.
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I deleted comments on single mothers and illegitimacy as off topic.
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“Yea the young black girls here do need a mentor or a school for them, as well as the young black men. heck we just need a new black school system”
Seeing the success of a black all boys school, the school district in New York wanted to implement it by opening up some all boys schools for black boys. Feminists opposed it right, left and center and the idea never went through. I’ll look for the links, but maybe other people here can remember that.
Studies have shown that past a certain age, both boys and girls do better academically when taught in gender segregated settings.
Had the Feminists kept their traps shut, then there may have been some very successful all boys AND all girls schools for Black children and teens in that area.
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^ great point peanut
And i’ll add be happy with who u are because u may want to be like someone else and they want to be like someone else. I don’t have the big butt like my mom and sometimes got teased a little by mom and my brothers ex gf, but I do have breasts though and they don’t. I’m learning to love my self the way I am and not try to be like someone else because they have issues as well and want to be like somebody else. I remember watching true life and seeing the women with small assets wanting to have bigger ones and going under the knife, while the ones with big assets were having back problems and things and wanted a reduction. The grass isn’t always greener on the other side, and so what if it is you still have to mow it lol
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@Peanut
So true but Peanut, embrace your natural size. I am skinny and being skinny is not considered a good thing in the Black Community. I liked my weight until recently. I was secure and happy with my weight for most of my life since I grew up around Whites and Whites uplift the ”skinny ideal” for girls. However I had a big butt but for the most part, my body fitted the ideal. Then I heard Black boys say that they preferred curvy girls like you and I got a little insecure. So I would look myself in the mirror and try to point out my curves. I had none but my butt. Whenever I tried to gain weight, it didn’t work. I am 5’3 inches and I am supposed to be around 125 lbs. to 140 something pounds. Blacks tell me to gain weight but White girls tell me that they wish to be my size and that I am the ”perfect size”.
I am on a slow journey to liking my body despite the different reactions from Whites and Blacks about my shape.
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@ adeen
I was skinny when I was a child and my moms side of the family was like are u feeding her. I’m not anymore, and lets just say they don’t ask if im being fed anymore rofl.
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@Peanut and Mstoodgood4yall
”I was skinny when I was a child and my moms side of the family was like are u feeding her. I’m not anymore, and lets just say they don’t ask if im being fed anymore rofl”
LOL I guess I will start liking my size then.
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Adeen, “I am 5’3 inches and I am supposed to be around 125 lbs. to 140 something pounds.”
Who on earth is telling you that you are *supposed* to weigh up to 140 pounds when you are only 5’3″ tall?!?!?!
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It’s sad beyond words. Tommy, Willie and the rest of those bitter brothas are drowning in self-hate. Except for WilliePete, did they know they came from a black mother? If they spend their precious time denigrating black women, to me, that includes their own mothers, and that is a hint that they truly hate themselves.
Mr. Piggle-Wiggle,
I have a response to you in the open thread should you choose to read it.
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@Why
14O something pounds is the highest I could weigh and if I go pass that I will be considered overweight. I checked the charts for the weight of my height of 5’3.
Of course I don’t weigh 140 something. I am not even close to weighing that much! I am skinny.
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I disagree,and here is why. “Positive” stereotypes are still stereotypes. Even the so called positive stereotypes negatively affect Black men and Black women. Most of the Black male professional athletes–people would not look to as intellects or take seriously and this shows by the way they articulate themselves during interviews or lack there of and the idiotic decisions that many have made (especially when it comes to sex, and money)…
There are trendy Black women (Beyonce, Rhianna, Kelly Rowland) and guess what? They ALL have to go over the top (sexually suggestive performances) to sell the same damn message that Katie Perry and Taylor Swift sell yet these two women can remain a bit “modest” for their audiences.
So if Black men are “hyper-masculine” in the media–then his female half (Black women) are hyper-sexualized and both are forms of unrealistic racialized sex roles.
In short–it ain’t all good.
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The least attractive Black men (to me), as well as homely Black men who think they aren’t Black (Tiger Woods) date White or ‘other’ women. Sotomayor is butt-ugly, there’s no other way of putting it. I wouldn’t touch it with a 100-foot pole. The rest? Just as ugly. But what about all those Blacks who write and speak a great deal about civil rights and racism, who are married to Whites? Cornell West, for instance. I hear & read a lot about these dumb jock athletes, but no one ever mentions these Black scholars who prefer White flesh over Brown. Aren’t they victims of self-hate who despise their Black mothers too?
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Carmen, everyone doesn’t reduce people to flesh.
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Don’t forget to include the following to that list:
Cheikh Anta Diop
Ivan van Sertima
Ali Mazrui
J.A. Rogers
Alice Walker
Dr. Ben Jochannan (absolutely insane as he believes in Black supremacy o__0?)
Franz Fanon
Skip Gates
Various Senegalese presidents (married French women)
The only Black scholars off back who had a Black spouse was Dr. Amos Wilson. . .Molefi Asante and Ama Mazama…
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I think Carmen does raise an interesting point.
Just my two cents.
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I just find it interesting how Black men are supposedly “more desirable” among other races of women for relationships, but I don’t see White, Asian or Hispanic women speaking out against the racism that Black men – and Black people in general – face. I’m not saying that people shouldn’t have good relationships, but I feel like a lot of external issues Black people have affect our interpersonal relationships. With the rising racism out here, Black people better reassess what “support” is, because support is not just about getting your feet rubbed, having great sex, and having everything done for you at home. Support is having a person care about your well-being in all parts of life. And I just feel like a lot of non-black women are not too focused on this because they don’t have the marker of being Black like we do.
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And this is just me, but I feel like a lot of Hispanic and Asian families would prefer their daughters to come home with a WHITE man rather than a Black man. Plus, only 10% of Black men marry out of their race. Marriage confers a lot of benefits to a couple that mere dating doesn’t offer.
I also wanna hear how non-Black women are working to help reduce anti-Blackness in this society in its various forms. I’m sure many are familiar with this particular news story:
http://www.bostonglobe.com/news/nation/2012/10/27/poll-majority-harbor-prejudice-against-blacks/5Tj42nmGdF8e4iF0FQ0aNK/story.html
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@phobeprunelle:
You say Dr. Ben Jochannan was married to a white woman? Do you have some kind of link or somewhere were I can see this for myself?
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Brothers are not commenting on this issue because of our shame. We know whatever attraction we have for a white woman is coming from a sick place.
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“And this is just me, but I feel like a lot of Hispanic and Asian families would prefer their daughters to come home with a WHITE man rather than a Black man. ”
Of course. This is well known in Hispanic and Asian families. I am very close to the South Asian (Indian) community where I live and while they do not want their daughters dating or marrying non-Indian men at all, between a white boyfriend and a black boyfriend, the white one is by far preferred.
Are black men under the impression they are wanted as son-in-laws by Hispanic and Asian parents?
I was watching a Sotomayor video again and he claims that “in every culture the black man is thought of as the most masculine”.
I don’t know what “cultures” he’s talking about or even if he’s ever been out of the US, but I can say emphatically that is absolutely untrue.
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@ Why
“I don’t know what “cultures” he’s talking about or even if he’s ever been out of the US, but I can say emphatically that is absolutely untrue.”—Sure because we all know how you know everyone in the world and can speak for them all.
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And for the record I don’t agree with v either because I doubt he knows or has even met all of the people in the world.
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I don’t know everyone in the world, but I have travelled enough to know that “every culture” does NOT see African men as the most masculine, and certainly not the most desirable.
Sotomayor is speaking from the perspective of the “Black American Male Ego”. Even then, if he thinks “all cultures” even in the US alone find black men to be the most masculine or most desirable, then he obviously doesn’t have much experience with “cultures” other than his own in the US.
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@ Why?
“enough to know that “every culture” does NOT see African men as the most masculine, and certainly not the most desirable. “—I don’t doubt that. I will also apologize because I mistook what you said as saying something else, but as far as what I said about Sotomayor I still have to stand by that.
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Good job on the thread , Peanut…I try to beg my wife to wear her hair natural, but, she has those issues too…but she is so beautiful with natural hair…thank the creator for that well shaped booty you talk about..its truly a blessing
` I was bullied by a man who called himself Thaddeus Blanchette….` well , a lot of people were, and i conflicted heavily with him and got banned for going in the mud..i deserved it and am really grateful Abagond let me back on
Adeen, from your pictures, you are not skinny at all….embrace your body shape…your shape is the type that will just get better and better with age if you take care of yourself..sharp angles with booty is a very good thing
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I just watched the video where Sotomayor is dissing Jill Scott. Throughout the video he refers to her as “Black Bitch”, “Fat Black Bitch”, “Fatty McFat” and “Hood Rat”.
So how is Sotomayor himself not a hood rat if he’s using language like that?
These are the “men” that are dishing out “tough love” to the Black Community in order to improve it?!?!
Its a sign of the times. Can you imagine Malcolm X using such language?
No one had tougher love for Black people than Malcolm X, and yet he never used such degrading language or conducted himself so disgracefully – and he was an ex-convict!
A hardened criminal who did jail time for violent crimes! And yet even at the height of his criminal life I’m willing to bet such language never even crossed his mind, what to speak of rolled off his lips!
There is no culture in today’s America. None whatsoever.
So my question to Sotomayor is – once Black women stop being “hood rats”, how are they to conduct themselves – like you?
Are you the example of the refined, cultured, non-hood-rat Black person?
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I just watched the video where Sotomayor is dissing Jill Scott. Throughout the video he refers to her as “Black B*tch”, “Fat Black B*itch”, “Fatty McFat” and “Hood Rat”.
So how is Sotomayor himself not a hood rat if he’s using language like that?
These are the “men” that are dishing out “tough love” to the Black Community in order to improve it?!?!
Its a sign of the times. Can you imagine Malcolm X using such language?
No one had tougher love for Black people than Malcolm X, and yet he never used such degrading language or conducted himself so disgracefully – and he was an ex-convict!
A hardened criminal who did jail time for violent crimes! And yet even at the height of his criminal life I’m willing to bet such language never even crossed his mind, what to speak of rolled off his lips!
There is no culture in today’s America. None whatsoever.
So my question to Sotomayor is – once Black women stop being “hood rats”, how are they to conduct themselves – like you?
Are you the example of the refined, cultured, non-hood-rat Black person?
I mean, what distinguishes a “hood rat” from a cultured person if not language?
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I can’t really call men that bash black women or any woman as men. When they say the things they say it is not only a disrespect to the women they are bashing, but a disrespect to the mother who gave birth to them. It’s disgusting to me.
TS is just a pitiful man in my opinion. It is like he wants black women to want him, but is hurt when they don’t and lash out. Then the fact that he says this and has a daughter. This guy is insane.
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@ Why?
That was the first video I saw when I learned of him on this blog. I won’t even bother seeking out any more because I think that alone proves how disgusting he is. From what I have heard from counter youtube videos that speak out about him…he does that to anyone that disagrees with him.
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@ B.R.
I don’t think the blog would be the same without you. We all clash sometimes but I think in general we want the same goals and peace and harmony (might be speaking for myself).
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@Why
Tommy Sotomayor is not somebody I would listen to on anything at all. He is an idiot and a self hater at it too. And he is no different from the ratchet, Black hood rat women he condemns and puts down in his videos. He is a tool used to keep White supremacy alive.
”There is no culture in today’s America. None whatsoever”
I agree.
I love Malcolm X and I like his ideas better than Martin Luther King’s. Malcolm X was right about racial tensions and everything yet if Black people listened to him…..I think the Black Community would have been in a much better state than it is today.
@BR
Thanks to hear from you but how am I not skinny? I am normal weight for my height frame yet compared to other Black women in America, I am skinny.
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@Peanut
Malcolm X was right! He was! The Black Community would have been in a much better state right now if they listened to him back 50 years ago.
If Blacks in America have listened to Malcolm X instead of that lame pacifist Dr. King:
We should have more self pride not self hate and Black musicians would be putting out good music not that Young Money and Shitty Minaj junk. Black children will be educated very well in all Black schools learning about their history. Blacks would have their own businesses and schools and grocery stores with organic fruit and vegetable instead of relying on Whites. I can go on and on about this. We should have listened to Malcolm X.
Too bad my family was living in Jamaica when this happened.
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Black women will always be loyal to Black men especially in terms of trouble or when they mess up badly. Black men can keep dating these White, Latina and Asian women but 90% of them will NOT be there for you when you fall. No matter how much Black men hate and degrade Black women in this country they owe their existence to us! They will always need us whether or not they love or hate us.
We are very loyal to Black men unless we go out and date a White guy(which I will never do)
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@Peanut
IF there was no good Black men out to marry and settle down with by age 30, I would date a Hispanic or Asian guy. I don’t see White American men as potential partners because they are out of my league and I don’t like the ones in my town. The White guys in my town are either racist, redneck and think that they are better than everyone else.
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@Peanut
Same here, it makes them happy seeing us alone, miserable and unwanted.
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@ Adeen
“Black women will always be loyal to Black men especially in terms of trouble or when they mess up badly”–I can’t say that for myself. I am very hard on black men and bad behavior. I always give my cousins an ear full when I see them straying wrong. Always in a loving manner but always straight forward.
“I don’t see White American men as potential partners because they are out of my league “—No man is out of your league. It might seem that way, but don’t think it.
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@Sharina
I can’t relate to a White American guy my age(17-20 years old) at all. So why should I ever date one ever? I can’t relate to them culturally and if one of them brought me home(which will never happen) his family wouldn’t like me because I am Black. Where I live is very racist.
I can relate to a Black guy culturally and I find them the most handsome. I had horrible experiences with Black men but I wouldn’t ever betray them and I still love them.
I can relate to a Latino male my age. I think Latino males are sexy and Latin culture and people aren’t much different from Blacks at all.
I can sort of relate to an Asian guy and most of the Asian guys I know are very nice and down to earth.
There are other races of Black women in America can date besides White but I don’t see why everyone is so fixed up with Black women dating White American men. Most of us don’t like them!
If I dated outside my race, I would date a Hispanic male because my culture is not much different from his since my family is Caribbean. I can relate to him culturally. Or maybe an SW Asian.
Yes I am opening up my horizons but never to White American men. I am just listing my possibilities here.
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Sharina, I always enjoy your posts, very down to earth, and, I loved you talking about your husband on another thread
Adeen. oh how i wish I could convey to you and Peanut, how special both your body types are (Peanut based on description ` short, compact , with booty`), and your pictures, Adeen, that clearly demonstrated a very attractive line…not unlike some dancers, you are not skinny, you might be slender in the right places, but,i see angles and curves that are very exiting…you know if you keep your shape, you have many years to slowly grow into your body which could mean a great figure in your 30`s /40`s…my son is going through the same confusion with his body…at 25…but, he doesnt know, this type of figure is great for photos and videos..he wants to bulk up, but, he would just be stiff and not be as good on camera..and he is really good looking and doesnt know it
and Peanut, your description reminds me of Bobby Shorts neice ( agreat nightclub performer) who went to my high school who was short and compact and had the cutest booty, was light skinned, i really think shorter girls dont get the props they deserve for how really desirable they can be…i mean lets face it, dark skined to light skined, and all the textures of hair , curly to how you describe yours, Sharina..my gosh they all are extra beautiful… all sizes, black women are very special…and I certainly support any black woman for wanting to be with a good black man…or any man that will treat them with the respect they deserve
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Hey, why not have a link to blacknotewhitedippedinchocolate at the end of the post? Peanut’s terrific. Thank you, Peanut! The title of this post raised my hackles some, but I ended up really liking it.
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B.R.
I have a feeling you are White. Are you? Definitely changed my mind here about them but the ones in my town are horrible though. Open to all races however I don’t want to called a sellout for dating outside of my race, if I do.
It is nice to see men of other races appreciate Black women’s beauty in our hues and sizes. How come the media wants Black women to think that men find them ugly?
What is a dancer’s body like? I always thought of myself as skinny because I am considered so by Blacks who like bigger women. Anyways thanks for your post and appreciation.
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Adeen, yes , Im white, and, I definitly dont judge you for your preferance for black men, as a matter of fact , I support your preferance for the man that is right for you.
Following your posts, I know you live in a place that is not a good atmosphere for what you have to offer the world. I hope one day you can get away from there. I hope you get to new york
Yes the media has done a tremendous disservice to beautiful women like you and Peanut and other black women , because it is owned and operated by a very small group of people ( a couple of thousand people making desicians about who gets casted for what is a small group), and they get to put their tastes over everyone elses…I watch media but I see throughit and look for my real tastes elsewhere
Dancers bodies can be several ways, but, for example, I worked on the movie Fame with a lot of young black dancers , and they were all slender but with great curves and they were strong and lean but super sexy…Irene Cara was slender but very sexy…there was a dancer that reminded me of your picture which is why I made that comparison
Dont fall for the stereotype of what black men like, black men are not monolithic and there are huge variations in their tastes..I guarentee you, there are some real black men that would be more than happy to make your aquaintance. Men of all colors at your age have no idea what they like, and are prone to jump on stereotypes…give them some time, give yourself some time and you are like a swan , and they will be kicking themselves in a few years for not making a move on you…beleive me, it happened to me like that also…a girl i kind of looked past, who let me know she was interested, i saw her 4 years later looking like Naomi Cambel (of course Naomi wasnt even born then); and all I could do was kick myself kick myseld kick myself
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“Malcolm X was right! He was! The Black Community would have been in a much better state right now if they listened to him back 50 years ago.
If Blacks in America have listened to Malcolm X instead of that lame pacifist Dr. King:
We should have more self pride not self hate and Black musicians would be putting out good music not that Young Money and Shitty Minaj junk.”
MLK didn’t teach self hate. His message has been co-opted by those in charge to distort and limit what he advocated.
He wasn’t a lame pacifist. He was a very strong and courageous man. Hatred is the emotion of the weak. It is easy to hate. It takes a strong person to love instead of hate.
Have you read or watched his speeches?
Nicki Minaj and Lil Wayne aren’t the whole of modern music. There is good music being made. You should check out non- mainstream artists.
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“Black women will always be loyal to Black men especially in terms of trouble or when they mess up badly. Black men can keep dating these White, Latina and Asian women but 90% of them will NOT be there for you when you fall. No matter how much Black men hate and degrade Black women in this country they owe their existence to us! They will always need us whether or not they love or hate us.
We are very loyal to Black men unless we go out and date a White guy(which I will never do)”
So even though black men hate and degrade you remain loyal to them. Why not extend this same loyalty to white people as fellow humans?
I don’t think loyalty can be summed up as dating inside your race or not dating a white man. If a black man advocates for the rights of black women and against the sexual and domestic abuse they face but dates interracially is he more disloyal than a black man who only dates black women but abuses them.
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Good point , Solesearch
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@B.R.
But these days, I am slowly learning it is beneficial to date outside of your race. I can’t reject a guy because of the color of their skin. You seem to be very nice and sincere. The ones in my town are a different story I don’t want to discuss. So these days, I am open to all races of men but I would never want to be called a sellout for dating a White or Latino male when I get older.
Dating out doesn’t make you a sellout, slandering and belittling your own people and not caring about them does.
Sad to say but my mother taught me that a Black person marrying a White person is most likely a sellout. Most likely.
I hope I become the swan you say I become because it sucks being the outcast in high school.
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@Solesearch
You are right but most Black women I know will stand by their own Black males no matter what.
Me, personally, I wouldn’t stand by a Black man who disrespects me and my race and sex.
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I only respect Black men who love Black women. Not the ones who don’t.
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@ peanut
“I think people want black women to be alone, subservient and miserable”
Of course they do why do u think they keep making movies showing us as maids and things without a love life and broken English. You iz kind you iz smart you iz impotant smh fk the help. Mammy 2.0
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@Solesearch
So even though black men hate and degrade you remain loyal to them. Why not extend this same loyalty to white people as fellow humans?
IME–even whites who marry Blacks–still will not side with their Black spouse over white people. Even whites they do not know. Especially when it is an issue dealing with race.
Either way it goes–Black people are screwed.
🙂
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@ peanut
“some black men just want to have their cake and eat it too. they want black women to be steadfast and loyal, while they take us for granted and abuse us, but at the same time some will get upset when you go with a non-black man, especially a white man…”
That;s true. I don’t give a fluck anymore. I say if they ass gets hurt or something get becky and them to march with u and sign ur dang petitions because I’m not. I remember seeing a story about a black girl who got killed and her parents were reaching out to al Sharpton and got no response, but al will be dressed,permed, washed, conditioned, and roller set, when a black male gets killed. black women need to come together and create our own organization because don’t nobody give 2 sheits about us.
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@ ms j
“but I don’t see White, Asian or Hispanic women speaking out against the racism that Black men – and Black people in general – face. I’m not saying that people shouldn’t have good relationships, but I feel like a lot of external issues Black people have affect our interpersonal relationships. With the rising racism out here, Black people better reassess what “support” is, because support is not just about getting your feet rubbed, having great sex, and having everything done for you at home”
Amen. most of the non black women just care when their biracial child faces some racism, even though they thought well my child isn’t fully black so they won’t deal with it. Rofl wrong. Its funny to me how u have black men on youtube saying black women yall shouldn’t have joined the feminist movement that was for white women they used yall and threw u under the bus. yet they stay trying to be with becky and thinkin she will support them. lol its crazy they tell us to watch out for other races of men because they will only want sex from u, yet that is exactly how some black men act towards black women especially dark skinned black women. Smh when the oppressed become the oppressor and can’t see it.
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@Solesearch
”I’d specify that we need black men to speak out against:
1. Domestic/ sexual violence against black women
2. The misogynistic messages expounded by many black male music artist
3. Sexualized racism black women face in the workplace: We need equal pay for women just as much as we need equal pay for black folks.”
I agree but these days it seems like there isn’t enough Black men who would do so. Good post thoughts.
Misogynist messages and sexual exploitation affects women of other races too as well as Black women. I just think since Black women are apart of the Black race in America, we just get the worst out of the barrel being the bottom of the totem pole in AmeriKKKlan.
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phoebe,
Black men aren’t siding with black women, so I’m asking why do they get a pass when white people do not?
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@Solesearch
Black men aren’t siding with black women, so I’m asking why do they get a pass when white people do not?
I don’t think anyone is giving Black men a pass except for some Black men themselves.
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Adeen,
That is true, but white women don’t side with white men in their misogyny. Black women do. We don’t hold black men accountable. Many black women actually go right along with the sexism and blame black women out of some misplaced loyalty to black men.
Black women need to be loyal to themselves.
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Malcolm X and MLK were more similar than people realized on many issues. The major difference was in their approaches towards nationalism and self-determination. Both loved black people and sought to teach self-respect and self-love. If one actually reads what MLK was saying by the late sixties it was very heavily influenced by black nationalist thinking. Certainly a President Obama would be falling over himself to denounce MLK were he around today.
Similarly although Malcolm never wavered on teaching self-love and connecting within the black community first and foremost he was not near his life’s end as opposed to interracial marriage as some here might think.
“I believe in recognizing every human being as a human being–neither white, black, brown, or red; and when you are dealing with humanity as a family there’s no question of integration or intermarriage. It’s just one human being marrying another human being or one human being living around and with another human being.” -Malcolm X.
In other words he was not threatened by it and felt it was only the business of the people involved. Again, if someone is stupid enough to date or marry an openly racist white person or somebody who is otherwise bad for them that is their business, not mine or anyone else’s. The paranoid self-pity shown by some here is too bad. Perhaps as people get out into the world and have more experiences they will come to realize that worrying about or criticizing the romantic choices of other people is pointless. Nobody gets any guarantees of romantic happiness. Everybody has to go out and shake their tailfeather. No exemptions.
There are some IR couples where the white partner is relatively clueless about race and intends to remain so and others where the white partner does indeed deal with race and privilege as much as they can. Unless you know the two people involved it’s presumptuous to say you know what their relationship entails.
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Black men get a pass when black women remain loyal(whatever that may mean to you) to them even though black men aren’t loyal to black women.
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“I believe in recognizing every human being as a human being–neither white, black, brown, or red;”
Hmm now where have I heard that before…….
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So the more safe option is for a Black person to marry a white person who is a “closet” racist or one who turns a blind eye to the racism their Black spouse will face?
The quote by Malcolm only proves like ANY normal human being that he realizes such relationships are normal–that doesn’t mean he was telling Black folks the best thing going was to marry whites or that he wanted that for his children or grandchildren.
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Shady_Grady, well said.
Everyone should love herself or himself enough that other people’s opinions don’t matter. Why do I care if Tommy Whoever doesn’t think I’m beautiful or whatever. His opinion is his business and not mine. The same goes for any man be he white or black.
Women in general need to stop being defined by men. The only emotions you should have in response to someone else’s ill conceived notion of you, your sex, or your race is pity.
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phoebe,
The more safe option would be to actually get to know the person before decide who they are.
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Solesearch,
Well then maybe someone needs to define the context in which we are using loyalty then?
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Solesearch,
And what if you take that route and they still harbor resentment towards your group? My point is that acceptance on an individual level doesn’t mean group acceptance…
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Phoebe,
Resentment towards your group is still part of who they are and if you don’t like it then don’t interact with them.
Go ahead. I already gave my opinion. I think the statement is valid however you do define loyalty.
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hmm. I wouldn’t want to date a white man, but wouldn’t mind men of color. I have no issues with ppl that do date interracially, I just don’t like the ones who say negative things about ppl in their race or expect black ppl to support them when they throw black ppl under the bus. I look at it kinda like this, henry Louis gates studies black culture and embraces the black dispora but married a white woman. i just see it as a contradiction but at least he does speak about the black community vs Obama who is married to a black woman yet says nothing about the black community *crickets*. Then there’s Terrence howard who dates interracially but wants blacks to support him, and allowed his ex wife to call him racist things. The only issue i have is when ppl date interracially and stereotype their own race and if they date a black woman who is crazy they stereotype us all, but if they date another race of woman who acts crazy they don’t stereotype them all and continue to date that race. All i’m saying is if u want to use the argument that love is colorblind blah blah blah then don’t be a hypocrite and stereotype ur own race or say i’d never date black women. if u don’t see race all u see is a connection then why do u just block out women of ur own race, obviously u do see race and need to cut the colorblind bs its getting old
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Who said i “interact” with them?
I’m asking questions–not attacking anyone’s personal decisions.
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@Solesearch
”That is true, but white women don’t side with white men in their misogyny. Black women do. We don’t hold black men accountable. Many black women actually go right along with the sexism and blame black women out of some misplaced loyalty to black men.
Black women need to be loyal to themselves.”
I agree with you but I don’t side with Black men in their misogyny. The misogyny I see among Black men is why I don’t listen to Rap music anymore and I don’t associate myself with any Black man who is misogynist and hates Black women. I am not that type of Black woman.
Rap music does play a role in how many young, Black boys see Black women. Many rappers promote misogyny and anti Black women hate in their music as well as too much cussing etc. I refuse to listen to music like that.
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Solesearch,
Oh–my bad–didn’t see this. Well, thanks for indulging me :-).
I don’t know whether i can define what loyalty from other Blacks means to me at this point–as i am more interested in loyalty from my spouse and immediate family.
It seems that some on this post biggest complaint is that Black men that go outside Black women for romance publicly disrespect Black women or allow their non Black (particularly white) mates to behave the same way towards Black women… i mean i could be wrong it is just how i read it.
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@Mstoogood4yall
I agree with you on all points except the fact that you don’t want to date a White man. Not all of them are mean or racist but a good percentage of them are. There is good and bad men in all races. I decided to open myself to different races of men because there is no use limiting myself to Black men although Black women are considered at the bottom of the totem pole.
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phoebe, I was also talking about the hypothetical people in this hypothetical situation.
If the white person has resentment against black people, but sees the black person they are trying to get to know as an exception. Then the black person can decide not to date that white person.
But until you get to know that person, you don’t know that person.
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@ adeen
its not that I think they all racist I’ve just never been attracted to them and don’t share the same things culturally. If u want to date them that is fine, I just don’t want to.
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Adeen,
At the bottom of whose totem pole? Not at the bottom of anyone’s totem pole who matters.
If those men aren’t interested in black women or you specifically, you should not care. Don’t internalize other people’s feelings.
You can care enough to analyze it from a detached viewpoint, but it shouldn’t make you feel anyway.
Very true. I don’t listen to most rap artists myself. I love the art form, though. It’s too bad most aren’t saying anything worth listening to.
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“So the more safe option is for a Black person to marry a white person who is a “closet” racist or one who turns a blind eye to the racism their Black spouse will face?
The quote by Malcolm only proves like ANY normal human being that he realizes such relationships are normal–that doesn’t mean he was telling Black folks the best thing going was to marry whites or that he wanted that for his children or grandchildren.”
IMO any black person who marries a white person needs to know that white person backwards and forwards and decide ahead of time how they will deal with additional issues that may arise, whether they be from honest ignorance or pure malice. If someone is showing signs of bigotry and disdain before the marriage I doubt it will get better afterwards. But again, I don’t care what other people do.
I know some IR couples where I think the white spouse missed their calling as a Klan member and others where the white spouse CONSTANTLY wants to go out of his/her way to prove their racial bona fides. And there are still other marriages at every point in between. It all depends on the people involved. You should in general know what you’re getting into before marriage-even in same race marriages.
From my perspective anyone who is running down their own kind has problems. But it doesn’t automatically follow that someone who has married/dates IR has issues with their race or with their opposite gender parent. Nobody questions if Robert DeNiro hates or is ashamed of his white mother… LOL
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mstoogoodforyall,
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mstoogood4yall,
sorry this should have been outside the quotes:
But you share things culturally with “men of color”?
What cultural things?
My husband and I are from the same state, but he is white. I’d say we’re more culturally similar than say a Nigerian, or a Korean, or a Dominican.
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@Solesearch
Black women are considered at the bottom of the totem pole when it comes to dating and marriage. 41% of Black women have never been married, double the rate of White women that have never been married. I am not trying to internalize any of other people’s feelings, that is the truth. In America, Black women are considered ugly, unattractive, etc. That is the truth and nothing but the truth.
But luckily for me and for you, We know I am NOT ugly, fat or undesirable. I know who I am and what I want to be. I want to be a journalist when I get older.
No, I don’t listen to Rap anymore nor do I support today’s rappers because many if not most of them support misogynist views about Black women and women in general.
No, Solesearch, I am not trying to challenge you. I actually like your insight on things like this 🙂
@Mstoogood4yall
It is okay, I see you have a preference for the Brothas, nothing wrong with that. I do too but I don’t mind dating out…well not anymore.
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What I mean by culturally is how we dance,music, dress, and the foods we eat. Most white ppl I know like mild food I like spicy foods. Most men of color like spicy foods and like women who are curvy. There are certain physical features I like as well that most white men do not have. now if yall like white men that is fine, not trying to offend anyone, but Its just not for me.
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Adeen,
I would be careful about using that statistic to explain the “inferiority” of Black women–that figure includes Black girls as young as 16–and well honestly, i don’t expect them to be married.
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@Phoebeprunelle
I don’t think Black women are inferior at all. I am a Black woman. Society just sees us as ”inferior”. I didn’t make up that statistic.
I don’t think Black women are inferior.
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Adeen,
41% of black women never being married doesn’t mean that most Americans consider black women ugly or unattractive. It only means that 41% of black women have never been married.
I’m not trying to challenge you either. It just seems that you are putting a lot of emphasis on how other people feel about black women. That isn’t in our control and shouldn’t be our concern outside of making sure we don’t let it influence how we feel about ourselves.
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I don’t much value into statistics, because it sure isn’t unbiased ppl making them. And then you need to ask the right questions to get the truthful answer. Of that 41% how many don’t want to get married? and what are the ages of these women? and lastly what percent of these women are marriage material? And what percent of them have been married but are now single? if u subtract those then it becomes less dramatic.
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@Solesearch
But people always put these statistics up all the time though.
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correction I don’t put much value into statistics.
And I also see u said 41 percent were never married so scratch that last question. In place of it the question would be what percent have had a serious relationship that could’ve lead to marriage? If not many then of course u wouldn’t be married if you’re just having short relationships or flings. And also what percent of those women have kids? I’m asking because black women don’t get as many chances at love as white women. I see white women getting married after they’ve had 3 or more kids, while some black women don’t get dates when guys find out they have 2 kids. And there are other double standards that I won’t get into here
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@Mstoogood4yall
I found out that 70% of Black women are single is a lie. I knew that was a lie because I have seen and known many Black women in relationships.
http://survivingdating.com/the-70-of-black-women-are-single-lie-exposed
This is the site that exposes the truth. 45% to 49% of Black women are actually single and honestly. that is more accurate based on observations.
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“But people always put these statistics up all the time though.”
Yes and they put up billboards all the time too, but I don’t pay much attention to them. They used to say black ppl were less human and did studies, but that doesn’t make it true. They’ve always used science and statistics to show how “inferior” ppl are and how “superior’ they are. Don’t believe the hype, because guess who creates the hype?
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From what I’ve noticed, there seems to be some confusion between the 70% of Black children are born out of wedlock stat and the one concerning the percentage of unmarried Black women.
The thought seems to be that if 70% of the children are born to unmarried women, then, therefore, 70% of all Black women are unmarried. This type of faulty ‘logic’ (or poor math skills, and mine are not that great either lol) doesn’t take into account the many unmarried women who have more than one child, and it totally ignores the fact that some unmarried women have no children at all.
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`IME–even whites who marry Blacks–still will not side with their Black spouse over white people. Even whites they do not know. Especially when it is an issue dealing with race.`
Not in our house
Adeen, actualy, you are already that swan, you just dont know it,
Shady, heavy duty quote from Malcolm, you are making great points…actualy lots of great points by everyone
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The 70% stat comes from including BW as young as 15 years old in the calculation. When they removed the minors the figure was around 43% which mirrors BM’s marriage percentage. BW are no more single than BM.
Take a look at this documentary it deals with the depiction of women in music. “Desire Sex and Power in Music Videos” shows how the images contribute to rape,etc.
(http://archive.org/details/Dreamworlds3)
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@ THE ALCHEMIST
Thanks for that excellent video link!
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^ . yes it is a shame dark skinned black women are told by the media and some ignorant,whitewashed, feminized, men that they are not beautiful or that they are pretty for a dark skinned girl, Really well u pretty ugly for a brainwashed mofo dbag. How did we go from black is beautiful to u are pretty for a dark skinned girl? imo to say that is to be anti black and full of self hate because dark is beautiful the original ppl were dark, so why be ashamed to look a little like the original. When i see a beautiful dark skinned woman i’m like wow what man wouldn’t want her/ and if the men don’t or they say she would be pretty if she was lighter i wanna whoop someone ass and be like dang if i was a man i’d date her, so if im a woman and i can see she is goregous and u a man and can’t see it. [in my charles ramsey voice] something is wrong here when a pretty black woman isn’t recognized by another man as being pretty but is recognized by another woman as being beautiful. Peanut u should’ve went over there and told her she is beautiful because she might have thought u were staring at her in a negative way, even though i know that u weren’t. i’m working on being more outgoing myself and will TRY to compliment every natural haired or dark skinned or dark skinned natural haired woman i see, We need to uplift each other because nobody else will. i had an asian woman stare at me a couple years ago, but she did come up to me and say i was beautiful and looked like a model *blushes* but at first i thought she was staring at me because i was black and she said she hadn’t really seen many black ppl.
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@Peanut and Mstoogood4yall
I got more compliments wearing my natural hair than wearing weaves. I stopped wearing weaves because my mother said that it took away from my beauty. My mother hates weaves and she wears her natural hair. My mother believes that whenever a Black woman wears weaves and wigs, that means she wants hair like a White woman.
Black guys at my school don’t pay any attention to me and when they do, they say I am pretty for a Black girl or dark skin girl. Most of them go after light skin girls or White girls. This White friend of mine tried hooking me up with this Black guy. Now this Black guy is colorstruck, brainwashed and effeminate and goes after White, Latina and light skin girls. He wasn’t my type and from the way he looked at me, I knew I wasn’t his type. I never seen him chase after a dark skin Black girl ever. Besides he is NOT my type and he is very effeminate too.
White girls always give me the meanest and snide looks but then they tell me that I am so naturally pretty. The Black girls at my school, I don’t get along with them at all, well most of them. Most of them seem to dislike me for no reason and I wonder why.
I hate high school.
But at the end of the day. I should know that I am a beautiful Black woman with dark skin and natural hair. I don’t need validation from the media or colorstruck, brainwashed and effeminate Black men to validate my beauty. After all God made me the way he wanted me to look like. I am beautiful the way that I am.
I am not listening to the media or colorstruck Black men to validate my beauty at all. No way!
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And there is different types of beauty outside of the blond hair and blue eyes skinny White woman persona. Yes I have seen beautiful White women with pale skin, blond hair, blue eyes and skinny. I have seen beautiful Latinas with tan skin, brown eyes and dark hair with a nice curvy body. I have seen beautiful light skin Black women with a curvy body. I have seen beautiful dark skin Black women. I have seen beautiful Asian women as well.
The media promotes a narrow minded beauty standard and thus many people buy into it and people have narrow minded view of what is beauty.
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Peanut, I love this blog because it is like where I can vent all of my thoughts as well. More too often, we Black women are thrown under the bus. Can we once get respect from any man or woman Black, White, Latina or Asian? I guess not. It is hard for a Black woman to live in this racist society and not get depressed once in her life. SMH, people don’t feel we need protection because of the stereotype that we don’t need any man by our side and that we are independent.
But in our hearts of hearts, we are women just like women of other races and we deserve to be protected too.
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I know and Black men are effeminized as well. Many Black men, this doesn’t go to all Black men, feel that since we are seen as strong and independent that showing emotion is a sign of weakness for us.
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To be perfectly honest with you Peanut — in thinking back, many of the times I’ve been out and ended up being a damsel in distress, or just in need of advice or physical assistance, it has almost always been white men, Latino men or even other women who have come to my aid. That’s not going to go over well here, but it is true nonetheless ….
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I don’t get the double standard about IR dating in the Black Community. When Black man dates out, he is applauded by Black men yet if a Black woman dates out she is called a sellout and Uncle Tom by Black men and women alike. How come Black men are viewed as masculine and handsome while Black women are viewed as ugly and very masculine looking. SMH.
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“…in thinking back, many of the times I’ve been out and ended up being a damsel in distress, or just in need of advice or physical assistance, it has almost always been white men, Latino men or even other women who have come to my aid. ”
.
**********
.
Do you have any thoughts or ideas, Fiamma, re HOW or WHY this LACK of assistance from black men is the way it seems?
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@ peanut
“I get so wet when men stand up and act like men and protect women, it’s like “have me now…” it turns me on big time.”
I’ll add when they are sweet as well that is a turn on, or u see them with their little sibling or relative and they being all fatherly. lol smh. Idk why but i like when men wear baby blue too.
@ adeen
“How come Black men are viewed as masculine and handsome while Black women are viewed as ugly and very masculine looking. SMH.”
the reason why dark skinned women are seen this way is because they view
black men in this way. every race but whites deal with this stereotyping of both men and women being viewed the same. ex: asian women are seen as being feminine and asian men are seen as being feminine, black men are seen as masculine so black women are seen as masculine.
@ fiamma
That is sad, some black men have been defeated mentally and don’t protect black women. They say no nation can rise higher than its women, but if we are to rise higher we need men to protect us so we can do what we gotta do.they need to be that fullback and gives us an opening to run to the top and pull them up with us, then we can work together to dismantle that glass ceiling. but at times it seems we are on our own to protect and provide by ourselves. we’ve been thrown in this role and then they tell us we are being too strong and need to come down, but if they aren’t doing what they need to do as men what sense would that make to be with a man who isn’t doing what men are supposed to do.
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Matari,
Actually I don’t have much by way of ideas why Black men have been less likely than others to offer me assistance. The Tommy Sotomayor mind-set which casts nearly all Black women as “beasties”, who are best ignored or disregarded, I suppose.
A few Black men have offered their assistance to me, a complete stranger to them. Only two of them, however, did not wait around for payment in the form of my phone number and/or cash. Both occasions happened at least 10 years ago, and I can still clearly remember both these men. And while I am appreciative of all the help I’ve received when strangers, unprompted, offered me aid, those two Black men stand out the most in my memory. Nice but also a bit disheartening at the same time.
Do you, Matari, have an idea as to why fewer Black men than others offer their help to me, a complete stranger? The word “stranger” is key here, since these men don’t know me as an individual, they therefore cannot hold a personal grudge against me.
P. S. I myself have and do also come to the aid of strangers: men, woman and children; race notwithstanding. So, for me, it isn’t a sexist thing where I would only assist other women, while men have to fend for themselves….
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Mstoogood4yall,
I don’t know what it is exactly, but there’s plenty of resentment to go around on all sides.
Viewing Black women as all being the same is just as wrong as whites viewing all Black men as being the same. And it’s true for Black wrt Black men also.
Desiring to be regarded as an individual by certain members of my own race has been just as problematic as my dealings with prejudice from non-Blacks.
It’s for certain though that we’ll find it harder battling white racism as long as we’re spending so much time
battling each other.
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Fiamma,
Like you, I have assisted all sorts and types of people. I especially like to help people whom look like me. I don’t expect, want or accept cash/phone number/ride/etc for being a good Samaritan.The reward for doing what’s right will come from the Universe soon enough – according to my personal experience.
________________________
“Do you, Matari, have an idea as to why fewer Black men than others offer their help to me, a complete stranger? The word “stranger” is key here, since these men don’t know me as an individual, they therefore cannot hold a personal grudge against me.”
Thank you for asking this question, Fiamma. I do have some ideas why *SOME* brothers might hesitate to assist. Maybe Abagond could do a post on this. But anyway, here are my ideas in no particular order:
1. Not all black males know how, or were taught, to be chivalrous. We learn by seeing; example; role models; practice. Today, too many black males (here and there) aren’t seeing examples of chivalry as much as – BEFORE. They aren’t hearing it in the music, or seeing it on TV, or in the movies, or at home!
2. Not all black women position themselves to receive help from her male counterpart. I’m talking here about those who’ve bought into the feminist/womanist mantra – I’M STRONG & INDEPENDENT/I DON’T NEED A MAN.. I CAN DO BAD ALL BY MYSELF hype espoused by *SOME* black women. Some women radiate this attitude/energy/haughtiness/vibe so much that some chivalrous brothers hesitate or refuse to step up. Why? Because sometimes kindness translate to weakness – and lets be honest. *Some* females don’t respect KIND men.
3. How adult men and women related to one another were observed, taught, practiced and reinforced in TWO parent households. Children, boys AND girls mimic and do what they see – not always – but often. Kids who grow up in one parent homes, imo, are often – again, not always – disadvantaged socially. They weren’t taught, shown how to PROPERLY give or receive assistance and help, and more importantly the tools, coping mechanisms, to successfully form and maintain life-long relationships, unions, marriages.
4. EVERYTHING starts from the home/family. And if one doesn’t receive Good Home Training, how in the world will one be expected to manifest it?
5. The destruction and breakdown of the Amerikkkan black family and the black *extended* family unit has major and disastrous consequences!
6. We are Afrikans living in, following, a foreign hedonistic, materialistic Western culture. A culture that is the antithesis of who and what we are/were – in accordance to nature – as a people. It’s no wonder that we who live in the US are by and large, confused and asleep … because we’ve adopted the ways of others – instead of our own.
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@ matari
*Applause*
I especially agree with 5 &6. Like umar johsons said are we african americans or are we americanized africans. We are trying to adopt ideas and lifestyles that are not our own, because we are told they are acceptable and the standard. So we have women putting chemicals in their hair, attaching hair that isn’t theirs nor looks like theirs, and we have kids being raised without both parents. It takes a villiage to raise a child, that is the way black ppl have done it , but here it is the opposite. We are raising our kids the european way and wondering why some are coming out messed up. we’ve tried to fix something that wasn’t broken. We’ve adopted a culture that isn’t ours but we are told is ours, so everything bad here is considered our culture: drugs,welfare, gangs, rap,etc.
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“so everything bad here is considered our culture: drugs,welfare, gangs, rap, etc.”
****
Miss Good,
Thank you.
You summed it up PERFECTLY – EVERYTHING negative is associated with blackness. While whiteness, the most destructive culture, ever, in the known universe gets a pass.
That’s some slick (and sick) DEMONIC sh^t!
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@Matari
Well said especially at this part 5 and 6. This country’s culture has confused many non Whites in this country especially Blacks. When we came from ships to the America, our culture, language and way of life was stolen from us. Since descendants of African slaves in this country don’t know where they came from, we adopt the hedonistic, pagan ways of AmeriKKKlan. If we don’t know where we came from, we don’t know where we are going.
You will be shocked where your ancestry truly comes from.
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@Peanut
Personally this generation of men is different from your father’s and your grandfather’s generation of Black men. It seemed like back then that Black men cherished and loved Black women. Our generation of men mostly degrades Black women and kisses up to Whitey. Is this the type of influence I want for young black goys growing up? No it isn’t. I believe leaving out Black women was done on purpose to push the media conditioning that Black women aren’t worth it and deserve to be left alone.
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@ peanut
I haven’t seen redtails but my dad has it on bluray. That sucks that they have only a love interest between a black man and white woman, but then again im not surprised it was produced by a white man. Regardless that this white man is married to a black woman, its the same thing as some white women with black men and don’t like their man being around black women. SO its the same thing with this white man, not wanting to see or show black women with black men. Also this movie has terrence howard in it, so are we even surprised with the fact they didn’t have black women in it. i googled the director and he has no girlfriend or nothing so it wouldn’t surprise me if they leave black women out and just have men in it.imo some of these so called black men who say things about black women or leave us out act like children when they are against the opposite sex and have their males only clubhouse or are feminized and just want other black men to themselves lmbao.
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@ Peanut,
wasn’t there a Navy Diver movie with Cuba Gooding Jr. that showed how supportive his black wife was. I did enjoy that movie a lot. I do remember the saying behind every good man there was a superb woman. I do believe that black women are one of the most awesome beings in the universe. I didn’t marry a black woman however I married the woman who could tumble me. More than anything I think that is important is that you connect with the person who makes you shine, that through the rough spots you both come out with the tool boxes and fix the problems and that Baucis and Philemon like down right shifty next to your relation. I hear a black man talking down about a black women and I know he is a fool; talking that much junk dimming his mother’s, sister’s, grandmother’s, and ancestors greatness. He multiplies his stupidity with ever word he speaks. Some people in relationships want cars so they can control the drive, what a weak person that is. If you other isn’t working to help build you up and you aren’t working to help build them up then you are in a relationship.
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From what I’ve read, ancestor worship / animism (for the most part) is where we truly *come from*.
Matari,
Excellent observations, and to some extent I agree with most of your points.
I am, however, first and foremost a human being, and secondly, a woman. A woman who has been called “doll” by strangers so many times (I have just that kind of face and stature I guess), it’s almost spooky. This being the case, I do not believe that I give off a vibe of being particularly self-sufficient. If I do, however, it doesn’t seem to stop non-Blacks and even other women from coming to my aid. That is why I placed emphasis on myself as an individual an not on Black women in general. If many Black men are refraining from helping ME because of the personal issues with the Black women in their lives, I myself cannot take blame for THEIR issues.
That is why no matter what is said on this blog, I try my best, within reason, to treat others as individuals in my dealings with them in real time / real life.
Whenever someone is amiable to me, though I have a tendency to be shy, I will try to be amiable in return (the is true for this blog also; I will tend to ignore those who ignore me).
In real time, if someone needs assistance and if I can be of help, I will offer my assistance. Walking around with a negative attitude towards unknown others based on personal prejudices can work against one just as much as it can work for one.
We will all need the help of strangers at some time or other over the course of our lives.
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I wouldn’t necessarily go on about the movie “Red Tails” as some example of the topic at hand as George Lucas was the executive producer, and look at who he just married last week; the score evens itself out.
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“From what I’ve read, ancestor worship / animism (for the most part) is where we truly *come from*….”
…with regards to religion anyway. Ancestor worship / animism has been classified as a form of “paganism”….
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Tommy may be harsh, but let me sum this up the best I can. He talks about black women a lot obviously and though I do not agree with some of the things he says, I get what he is trying to say. Most of his subscribers are black females that do not want to be affiliated with the ratchet trash in America. These women have class and don’t find him offensive because they know it isn’t them they have self respect and confidence. He gets on black me too but not as much cause he feels that they are criticized more. In conclusion people don’t understand him that well cause he seems to put of a grisly vibe at first. I thought he was a “Uncle Tom” too but please try to be more open minded about people.
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@Kidether
First of all, I am not ratchet trash. I am a young, Black woman who wants to go to college and plans on being an author. journalist. I find Tommy Selloutayor degrading and offensive because it seems like he hates Black women. I am 18 and sick of Black men putting down Black women on Youtube. Not all Black women are bad. I may have my moments but I know I am not a bad person at all. And from what I see most of his subscribers are angry or bitter Black men who have been hurt by a Black woman in their life.
Honestly I don’t believe in this Black women being loyal to Black men thing anymore. I am definitely thinking of dating outside of my race but I wouldn’t abandon Black men. I still love Black men!!!! Most of the Black men in my generation want and prefer light skin and White girls and look me over. I believe Black women should date outside of her race at least once in her life because she might find her soul mate that way plus I don’t think a Black woman should limit her choices to just Black men. Besides Black women aren’t even the top choice of many Black men these days.
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Adeen,
I know that you’re you’re young and all, but in my opinion, you should focus on self instead of worrying about who’s attracted to you as a black woman, and who is not.
You’re honestly all over the place with your commentary.
First you love the black man down to his funky drawers, then you’re hurt and emotional because the sad reality is, the loyalty and unconditional love you bestow upon black men will not be reciprocated.
Then you proclaim that you’re gonna start looking at other races of men,but maybe you’re looking at them as consolation prizes instead of suitable mates, which in itself is insulting to whomever man you choose to let into your world.
It’s ok to step back and process it all before making your next move, but over-thinking the idea of opening up to other races of men can get you even more scrambled.
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@Adeen&Peanut I understand where you guys are coming from believe me. I never said anyone was ratchet trash. You are obviously intelligent black women I was just trying to inform. Sorry if I offended anyone I am not here to start anything with you guys. We are all entitled to our opinions. I do agree that he can be more positive at times though.
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@Adeen oh and I am in your generation I guess (I will be 17 in October) I love my (Dark skinned) black women flawless skin, loyal, and headstrong she knows what she wants. Tommy is wrong about it being most it is just a small number that reflects on the whole population.
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Peanut, isn’t it funny how she was dating White men for a long time however she finally dates a black man and they are already married.
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Are you a troll? Considered at the bottom by whom? White men, 99% of whom are racist? puhlease! Black men do not consider black women to be at the bottom. Nor do other races. Primarily, that’s white men who feel that way!
——————-
Re:
Black women are considered at the bottom of the totem pole when it comes to dating and marriage. 41% of Black women have never been married, double the rate of White women that have never been married. I am not trying to internalize any of other people’s feelings, that is the truth. In America, Black women are considered ugly, unattractive, etc. That is the truth and nothing but the truth.
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@ gina
No she is not a troll she is a young black woman, cut her some slack. i and other commenters have already corrected her on what she said. ITs hard not to buy into this stuff especially when you are young and get influenced more easily.
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Sorry Peanut, but there is absolutely NO difference between Tommy Sotomayor and the BWE movement. They simply express their hatred of black men without using obscenities.
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The BWE movement is in an uproar over Kerry Washington’s marriage to a black man. They feel betrayed.
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I’ve read three articles on KW’s marriage. None of them expressed any feelings of betrayal. Although there was plenty of excitement that she married a smart, socially conscious man.
Are you just trying to instigate? Please provide a link to the article you’re speaking of.
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temple:
That’s EXACTLY what joe is trying to do. Instigate some mess so the target is set on the shoulders black women.
If anything, I’ve seen black women sing nothing but well-wishes to K.W and her new husband.
This is the very stuff that black women need to be mindful of. There are people out there starting mess, and blaming black women for being mad when that’s not even the case.
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@Joe, @Temple @Moodscope
They sound happy for her. I don’t read uproar and betrayal in the following quote:
From Beyond Black and White
“Ms. Washington has dated white men in the past. And she has also dated black men in the past. Kerry dated men who she felt physically attracted to, to men who she felt were on her level. And now, finally, she had married a man who is just as smart, accomplished, and dedicated to philanthropic work as she is. Kerry married a WINNER, and that WINNER just happens to be a black man.”
http://www.beyondblackwhite.com/kerry-washington-marries-black-man-remains-embodiment-bbw/
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Where you at, joe? *whistling*
LOL! Killed that lie where it stood…
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[…] Black women, loyalty and Black men […]
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And I will add this:
My loyalty to black men has waned over the years. I feel no love or solidarity with random black men that I don’t know. I no longer feel the stress that some black women feel when holding the black community on their shoulders.
And for that, I can breathe easy. I hope more black women would opt to do the same.
My loyalty lies within, and I choose who I want to be loving and loyal to, and strange black men are not it.
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I feel black men have the most oomph and are the sexiest, next to Latin men. That being said, I don’t get Adeen’s need to quote this after solesearch mentioned she was married IR. As if Adeen was trying to “remind” solesearch that black women are somehow inferior:
Re:
—————————————-
“Adeen
@Solesearch
Black women are considered at the bottom of the totem pole when it comes to dating and marriage. 41% of Black women have never been married, double the rate of White women that have never been married. I am not trying to internalize any of other people’s feelings, that is the truth. In America, Black women are considered ugly, unattractive, etc. That is the truth and nothing but the truth. “
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I was happy to see this post. But I am sad about the responses. I have learned comments after a post teaches us more about how far we have come as a society. No matter what site I am on posts talking about the struggles of black women never get diverse responses or a lot of responses. There are mostly responses from black women in posts like this and it is pathetic. Where do all the black men disappear to all of a sudden from the Trayvon posts. There are more people angered or frustrated by the struggles of black men than the struggles of black women. Facebook, Twitter, and all the social media sites blow up about Trayvon Martin and all the other black men in the struggle. It’s sad to see how invisible and unimportant black women are even to black men. I keep letting people know that racism is not only a struggle for black men. Black men can not be the face of it alone because it will lead to the continuos racialized sexism that black women face from all directions not just whites.
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There is an African saying that goes
“judge by cause, not by effect;” that’s why I can understand why blk women get angry when blk men are on YT coming at blk women for wearing weaves. These men are judging the effect of a cause rather than the cause. With that being said, if blk women are honest with them selves they would have to admit that it was blk women that started this back and forth. Which gender was it on Sally Jesse Raphael, Phill Donahue, Ricky Lake, Oprah, Dr.Phill, Geraldo, and Date line NBC trashing black men? The women on these programs did a whole lot of blaming the effect rather than the cause; 40 yrs of this combined with the emergent popularity of YT led to the birth and popularity of SGT Willie Pete. SGT WP filled a void by giving another perspective on why the black community was in shambles besides the “it’s all the black man’s fault” perspective. If these women on these tv programs had taken the approach of equally looking at how black men AND black women BOTH needed to improve SGT Willie Pete would have just been ignored and looked at as a psycho. 20 yrs ago Sharizad Ali had attempted to inform blk women that if they continued to put the sole responsibility for the state of the community on blk men they would create further division, now 20 yrs later we have a man named Tommy Sotomayor who’s rhetoric is 10x worse than SGT WP, and who’s popularity is so high he is getting interviews with celebrities, his videos are being mentioned in the Huffington post, Politicians are tweeting his videos
and his views are tallying up in the millions. A monster has been created and it won’t be as easy to bring down as SGT Willie Pete.
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Are you loyal? Loyal women keep thin, appreciate a man as protector. I see these American black women putting their men through it all. Then they get mad if you date the smart ones, even though they actually hate them. They want the smart ones to raise the thug children. Remember GOD made women subordinate to men in some matters, men to women in others.
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Najia, I see where your coming from. You’re kinda right, but you’re generalizing. That’s not all black women. You just going off of who you’ve met personally, or what you see in the media. You can’t do that. Because there’s some real stand up black women, and they ride for their black man. I know this personally. But again not all or only black women act they way you described. I live in the hood, but its ethnically and culturally diverse, so there’s hood booger females of all colors, races, breeds.
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And about ladies keeping thin.. idk I guess its a regional thing. Because we generally don’t like stick figure bony ass females. We need a lil thickness
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Mussandrad. I get that I shouldn’t generalize. I’ve met some nice AA women, but several have threatened to fight me over the guy I dated last year. The same girl who rejected him because she claimed he was a nerd wanted to fight me and I never had a girl fight around me before I moved here. But you are right other races do that too. My girlfriend is korean and she is dating a white guy and the same white girls who called him a nerd hate her for “stealing” him.
As far as thickness I get that. I myself am on the bony side but I think a lot of women look good “thick” but many AA women use it as an excuse to be obese.
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About her coming at you.. all I can say is, and excuse my language, b*****s be tripping!! I’m joking, but women are crazy as hell. All races. You probably go fool sometimes your damn self!
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@ Naija Girl
“many AA women use it as an excuse to be obese.”—That is not as true as you give claim to it. Fat is fat and there is a difference between thick and just plain fat. Many AA women are happy with their bodies whether fat or thin and some fat women I know have a gland problem and struggle with their weight. This is no excuse for those that are fat, but it is a choice of theirs. I am just not sure why it bothers you so much what an individual chooses to do and as if you have never seen fat in any other race of people. America has an obesity problem period.
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On top of that their concern should be with pleasing themselves and that their man in happy. If he married said woman fat then who is anyone else to continue to criticize them about how to make their man happy?
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Naija Girl doesn’t sound like a girl from Nigeria at all. She sounds like a Black American man using the moniker as a cover. All this talk about Black women ONLY wanting thugs, complaints about Black women being over weight and overlooking nerds AKA “good Black men”. It sounds like she/he lives in YouTube land where Black men crank out these exact same complaints verbatim. It’s a tad bit suspicious….
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Fat girls are in style right now tbh..
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Abagond, why are my comments always stuck in moderation?
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@mussandrad
“Fat girls are in style right now tbh..”—I have noticed this as well. I actually envy them because they seem to be happy regardless of what size they are. I struggle greatly with imagine issues myself and am constantly jogging or doing something to drop my weight, but no matter how small I get I am just not happy with my size.
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what? fat girls are in style right now. lol nobody told me. anyways I think confidence is what matters most, I see some overweight women or women that aren’t that attractive with fine men and their personality is a 10.
It’s about where u live and who u are around, some black women do act like that but not the ones I see maybe because i’m mostly around military ppl. There are some ppl with no home training, i blame the parents most of the time.My parents always told me that anything I do is a reflection on them as parents, as I got older I understood what they meant. I think a lot of what is being said is an American thing, heck I see shows of white males complaining about white American females and getting mail order brides from other countries. imo men and women aren’t what they used to be and don’t do what they need to do are were able to do back then. more women don’t cook anymore and more men don’t know how to be handy men and fix things.
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@mstoogood4yall
You were right on the money with that one.
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This video goes out to all the, “interracial activist” that i have encountered on this blog.
(http://youtu.be/4rtNB_ORuw0)
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I’m happy that there is an actual, BLACK WOMAN that feels this way, its very refreshing.
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@jadapoo1 I agree with you.
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Don’t nobody want bones but the dog.
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Yeah jadapoo you guessed it I’m fake after all no black woman could ever find any fault with AA women’s behaviors thug loving and having diabetes.
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Naija you’re really forcing it with the stereotypes. We can go back and forth and call you slave catching, child soldier having, malaria AIDS patients. But why? Where all black people, and nobody is perfect
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@ mary burrell and Jadapoo1
I won’t pretend to know if she is really Nigerian or not but the ones I met are actually quite nice. I also think much of what she says divulges a much deeper issues in which she seeks to break down AA women to make herself feel better. So at this point not sure if it is even worth engaging. So far she has not said one true thing of me, but if anyone in here is fat then I will say do you. Be happy with you because misery loves company.
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*Newflash*
One can be slender and still have type II diabetes. It’ not always about carrying excess weight. It’s also not a laughing matter, as it can cause blindness, kidney failure, strokes, nerve damage, gangrene ( and, consequently, the loss / amputation of a limb) et cetera.
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@Fiamma: This is very true. Diabetes is no joke.
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“Sharina,
I won’t pretend to know if she is really Nigerian or not but the ones I met are actually quite nice.”
Linda says,
Sad to say it, but I believe her – I think she (Naijagirl) is really African because even though most of the women are Very nice indeed, I’m sure they say these things about black American women between each other — I doubt they would ever say it to your face.
If you read the “Naija” blogs, they discuss similar topics as this girl brought up:
http://www.nairaland.com/520284/nigeria-women-vs-african-american
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It is futile to question anyone’s stated identity on the internet. For all we know, Abagond may be a 62 year old liberal White woman who has always dreamed of heading an activist Black blog,
There is just no way to prove that anybody here is who they say they are, and it is therefore foolish to try.
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@ king
rofl at abagond possibly being a liberal white woman wanting to run a black blog, bhawhwha. Idk if she is or not nor do I really care. he11 somebody can be blue like the avatars but when they start stereotyping all of us as being a certain way then smh. I’ve been on other black blogs where trolls and other ppl come on there and some ppl are imposters and some are black ppl from the caribbean or Africa that hate black americans, if that is how that person feels then that is how they feel. I’m about done trying to tell everybody from white ppl to other black ppl that we are not all the same, its futile either way.
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@ mstoogood4yall
It’s possible!!! But as you say, I disagree with Naija Girl’s broad brushing and stereotyping.
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@ Linda
” I’m sure they say these things about black American women between each other — I doubt they would ever say it to your face.”—True but then it goes to show…who really has the problem? They can’t say it was me as I was nice. 🙂
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@ Linda
I also must ask though…why is it this Aa women vs Nigerian women? Do they feel this way even if the individual they meet does not fall into the stereotype? It is like having those jealous girlfriends who smile in your face but throw shade behind your back. I find that sad.
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@King
“t is futile to question anyone’s stated identity on the internet.”—This is true. A lot of what she says I have heard from different types of people claiming to be different types of races on different cites.
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Is this new or something? This whole trend of African not liking American blacks.. because I live in Boston, we got a wave of Somalian immigrants in the late 90’s. They were and are cool as f***. At first they were a lil to themselves because from Somalia to USA gotta be a cultural shock. But they have always been cool as hell. And they get it innnnnn. Goons, straight goons. But anyway I noticed a trend of Africans not liking us. I notice it a lot. Is it certain countries or what?
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I agree with Linda.
It was on nairaland.com that I first came across the ‘akata’ slur, that plus ongoing dissections of Black American men and women versus Nigerian men and women…there seems to be, sorry to say, a lot of resentment and envy there with regards to looks etc.
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^ I think its certain people, idk. Put it this way if we were to go to Africa we would probably be looked at as white or colored not black so there really is no we but u vs them type thing. Some view us the same way white americans view us as beneath them. I won’t stereotype but some do not like us but will be nice to whites. some have the same view of as as whites do, that we should pull ourselves up by our bootstraps and not complain. We live in the greatest country on earth right so what if we had to deal with racism and having to fight for our rights. smh some just like to piggy back off of the rights we’ve had to fight for then turn around and diss us. idc anymore I look at the ppl that do that the same as whites.
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@fiamma I am going to check that site out in a few minutes… Btw ,Nigerians should be the last ones talking that ish… They must think we forgot that they were the main ones selling us in the first place. Smh..
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yeah well u sell what u don’t want or what is competition to u.
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@mstoogoodforme, Somalians and Ethiopians don’t be on that mess tho, its gotta be certain countries or something. I know quite a few Somali females that’ll straight up beat the tar out of someone hating on AA women.. because over here in Boston thats what they identify as.
@Nigerians..cut it out. For real. White folks dont give two squirts of wet duck sh*t about yall.. yall are some n words like the rest of us.
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@ mstoogood4yall
I did an internet search and found something similar to it. Either way both are just negative, but no surprise of who is in the middle egging on the hatred….white racist men.
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I can say it makes me feel a bit standoffish in the sense that no matter how kind I am to them they will think the same of me regardless. It feels a bit futile to try. *shrugs*
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@ Fiamma
“there seems to be, sorry to say, a lot of resentment and envy there with regards to looks etc.”—Don’t be sorry to say. I am glad you just said it. It seems silly to be upset with each other over that though.
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@ mussandrad
I think it is individual ppl and yes some ppl from certain places. idk as I’ve not really been around African immigrants so can’t fully speak on it. but I do notice some of the ones talking all that stuff about black americans online are from certain places. anyway I am respectful to everybody but I will not waste my time with ppl that are disrespectful to me nor will I be disrespectful back to them. If some feel black americans ain’t ish then ok thank for telling me how u feel.
fiamma I looked at that website and I see some on there don’t like black americans but some were against stereotyping. But I do see some were calling the good black americans exceptions, sounds just like white folks.
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MsTooGood writes::
“fiamma I looked at that website and I see some on there don’t like black americans but some were against stereotyping. But I do see some were calling the good black americans exceptions, sounds just like white folks.”
– – –
I followed that site on and off for several years. Most of what I remember reading was offensive, and not onlly in regards to Black Americans but also to Ghanaians and even to Nigerians themselves. It was also quite common for Somali to register in order to post numerous pics and to extol the beauty of Somali women versus west African women. That was a sad spectacle.
I stopped following the site a couple of years ago. It’s good to hear there are now more members on the site who speak out against stereotyping.
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Sharina writes:
“Don’t be sorry to say. I am glad you just said it. It seems silly to be upset with each other over that though.”
– – –
It is silly indeed. I do get the impression though that some may feel it isn’t fair for Black Americans, the descendants of slaves, to have any kind of perceived advantage over them, the descendants of supposedly free peoples (the fact that many of them also had slave ancestors who never left the continent doesn’t seem to count).
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I am constantly amazed by the number of message boards where members feel free to void their bowels as if they are in the privacy of their bathroom with no outsiders looking in.
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@ fiamma
It is just crazy and weird to me when black ppl are like no this black person from this other country looks better. reminds me of how some black males here will say oh brazilian women look better.Yet these same ppl will still treat the ppl they say look better ,like sh!t ,the same way they treat the ppl they say are uglier. Also I think it has a bit to do with finding variety attractive as if we all found the same thing attractive there wouldn’t be enough to go around and ppl would look the same. Certain black websites I had to stop going to as well because its some crazy ppl that are either imposters or they say some of the most vile ignorant things about each other.
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The reason that Somalis and other East Africans compare themselves to west Africans is becauseTHEY ARE From DIFFERENT CUltures and COUNTRIES! African is not a nationality. We have national rivalries just like euro countries.
Lol @ all these queen latifah types. You only want U N I T Y in the way you want us all united under you. Remember you are our african “QUEENS” right?
As for slavery it’s been four hundred years Get over it!
Sondis is that your real picture?
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You keep saying we want to unite just so we can control you guys and run things..first, thats not true. And you guys apparently don’t mind the Chinese and euros coming in and taking control of your sh*t. And they look at you like dogs, we look at you as brothers and sisters. Get real. Get over your petty beef with petty hoodrats you know. Because tbh, you fall in that same category. You literally sound exactly like the Nigerian version of the black American women you dislike so much
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“As for slavery it’s been four hundred years Get over it!”
Time for you to crack open a book. Slavery in the US ended only 150 years ago.
Oh, and the stuff the Somalis were saying about west Africans was far worse than the mess you’ve conjured up about the looks of Black Americans women. Their comments were quite vicious and included insults to hair texture, facial features and body types. I must say, though, they would have been far less disappointing to read if the insults were directed at cultural differences, like you say, rather than phenotypes.
If anybody wishes to check for themselves, a Google search on “Nairaland” and “Somali” should prove fruitful. Other possible search terms are not so nice and I won’t bother including them.
You can now try and save face by continuing your assault on Black Americans. I’m done with you.
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“Because tbh, you fall in that same category. You literally sound exactly like the Nigerian version of the black American women you dislike so much.”
– – –
BINGO! It’s all that cattiness about nasty weaves, competing for men and how fat other women are.
With that said, I’m going to see my way out of this train wreck.
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So a bunch of kushites and rakes don’t like west african women? At least we don’t have distended bellies from starving to death.
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PEANUT IS DELUDED LOL
she will be the type of black women that will support/love and kill for black love,yet she doesn’t see the obvious-that more and more black men are dating out.
There are lots of black on black relationships and these are around but for how long?
While certain bm date out when relationships fail with black sisters,bw rather than date out remain the all embarrassing ‘black single women’ statistic..its a great kick in the teeth to see that bm will pick the most average white women over a pretty black chick…but still sad women like Peanut is still championing bm that have long walked by
The worse stance a bw can do is shout in support for men who largely choose white women over you-you end up looking weak and desperate,these men are not weak,indoctrinated by the system or any other..these BM do so because they give a shit about their plight-they are thinking of themselves and see white women as the winning ticket-always have and sadly always will,bm have never been loyal to bw..
Not only are white women the chosen ones,they have a fleet of armies to choose from as well most other men lusting over white women,she still has her fair share of white men including the over amorous appetites of todays black men available to her..she knows its WIN WIN EVERY TIME…cleverly wm keep the women of their own race to preserve their race while stoopidly the bm decreases his,knowing that little black boys will be no more as they are replaced by mixed ones….the black race loose as they die out……………………….
The sad reality is that because certain black women refuse to date out,many will be left single,sad and lonely…because as bm die out,turn gay,end up in prison,and date out..there will only be a small demographic available for black women..knowing that her fate is date out or die lonely.
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Peanut is not deluded……I get her point. But the truth is that the brothas are really not concerned with this. They never have been. I figured that out in high school. This fact only got bigger in my face as I went through college and professional school.Only there were even fewer black men to choose from and they had a buffet of women of ALL races to choose from. I would have ended up dateless and childless had I waited for my black knight to show up.The truth is what it is. Black men are not interested because THEY DON’T NEED TO BE. I was the recipient of the double standard which I hated. I went on and lived my life to the fullest.All women should do just that. Black women cannot further the black community alone. They have been trying for a generation or more. And …it’s not working so well. If a good black man won’t step up to the plate, take your game elsewhere…to find respect and appreciation wherever you find it..
Watch the documentary Dark Girls
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The silence speaks volumes. Get out while you can black women. Look for love outside of the black community. They’ve already left us behind since the Civil Rights movement. Wake up!
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@Peanut
I am not sure that is the maxine that you talked with and understood you on the ir thread. (excuse me if I am mistaken). That may be asplund so be careful.
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@ Peanut
This is Maxine,I thought I apologized to you about the comment previously,if you didn’t see it then I judged harshly before I even took the time to read the rest of your posts.
I agree with you as said before on many things you say, however I do suspect you are a highly emotional female who wears her heart on her sleeve but I could be wrong.
If there’s anything you can take away from this debate then realize ‘sometimes in life you have to go with what you need rather then what you want’ I find this rings true more as you get older and mature in life-the thing is I do feel black women put too much emphasis on race,where black men do not,
I see this so many times and unfortunately these women loose out in the dating games because they are far too selective and as a result only a certain type appeals and so you either get what is among the bunch(that you prefer) that is available to you or you inevitably end up on your own and this is just one reason why many black women are single.
Black men on the other hand have a selection of race women to choose from ….because….:they are OPEN to dating ALL women and as a result have a larger selection to choose from…they don’t seem to share this same staunchness but this I feel is because men are not emotionally driven like women,they are more rational..maybe women should start thinking like men in this regard..
In fairness to black men and women that do choose each other,its great love if you can find it,many do but sadly more can’t because of the unequal demographic of availability means that as more black people date out which is happening a lot now-the number of persons available are a growing minority.
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It’s very clear that some in here missed the Toldson and Marks study on myths about Black marriage and the abundance of single Black women…
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I feel it needs to be acknowledged here that there are Black women who have no particular preference for or loyalty to Black men but who place strict emphasis on BM as romantic partners due to a belief that they (the aforementioned Black women) have no other viable options The feeling seems to be that non-Black men will either use and abuse them or, on the basis of them being a BW, the men will simply reject them outright, and these women have no desire to go out on a limb of that type. It’s a ‘better not venture to far afield’ and/or a ‘better to stick with what you know’ kind of situation.
This is no guesswork on my part as I have had several Black female friends openly admit to this in real life, and have also seen it mentioned by self-identified Black women in internet chat rooms and on internet forums.
There have been several BM commenters here at abagond’s who have stated that BW may not have as many options to date out as do BM. Their comments, though, were devised to be btchy and cruel rather than to inform.
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I think what pay it forward is saying is that there are some women who choose black men out of habit or familiarity, they are fearful of the unknown ,the non black males and a different culture. And are afraid of rejection because some non black males may be told not to bring a black female home.
I think there are some people that do feel that way, they don’t know how other cultures or how other men will view them and are afraid of being rejected simply for being a black woman.
I do think the whole gender war thing is blown out of proportion sometimes. I think a lot of the bashing comes from people from unbalanced families so imo they aren’t really good choices for mates anyway as how people see their parents interact is most likely how they will act in a relationship. And I also think some people are hypocrites and will attack someone of the other gender for doing the same thing they overlook within their own gender.
I think black women should be open to other men but not focus on white men as the only alternative. I get so tired of everything being black or white when it is way more than that. I’d be open to certain races of men but only if their mind is right I don’t want a self hating man of any race.
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@peanut
that’s fine.
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I feel that women are women regardless of color and should just go for it,your never going to know if you don’t come out of your comfort box-no more excuses-fear gets you nowhere
BW really need to start injecting some positivism-the world is not your enemy,as long as you continue to remain stagnant with the same mindset then don’t complain about what you have got,unless you change what you get..if you forever keep telling yourself this type hates me then what do you expect to get but the men that hate you.
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I can agree on this point to a certain extent. I do think Black women should let the “mammy” thing that many of us have been doing go. It is waaaay time to put that to rest.
Translation (and this is out of love); if you feel you are a couple pounds overweight–lose it. Start wearing clothes like skirts and dresses (there are a ton of feminine and classy styles out there), and choose the right make-up to highlight our unique features. Black women have the potential to be very, very cute and pretty women. That to be is a Black women letting the mammy thing go! We were put here to be nurturers and comforters for our OWN families and relatives.
However, it is a myth that there are an abundance of single Black women. I only mentioned those things above because i believe when Black women make better choices in health, food, clothes, disposition, etc. we tend to make better overall life decisions.
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@Legion,
Yeah…Iman’s line of cosmetics can be purchased at some drugstores, or online. lol–at least in my town.
I think the key to make-up is not looking like you have any on ;-).
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@ peanut
yep I think black women didn’t go for white men because we don’t fall for the lies as easily as others because we’ve been around them and see how they treated our ancestors as well as how they continue to treat us today. the other races of women don’t see or deal with all of that on the level we do because of the divide and conquer stuff. its the well at least u aren’t black, and so they treat them a little better than they treat black women but still not as well as they treat white women.
I thought it was also interesting that Asian men didn’t automatically go for white women when the other men went for Asian women.
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@peanut
Try not to be so hard on yourself. I understand that you want what you want, but open the door to non-white men if white men are the major problem.
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I hate the way some black women continue to perpetuate the myth that white men despise black women-yes some do but why focus on the negative when you choose to disregard what matters-ones whom are positive to you,
All you have to do is look on the net and see our very own men doing worse but yet some seem to think bm relate when the fact is I have seen bw have far better,fun successful relationships with men whom are not their color-compatibility often has nothing to do with color but a meeting of minds…with the mindset against white men you are continuing to put a divide there that doesn’t have to be there.
To consider going into an interracial relationship should be on the basis you are attracted to that type,if you are purely going into these unions just because you feel devalued by your own men-then international relationships is not for you..and just for the note,there are lots of black men other then American black men that love black women so you can choose these ..white men should be the last option if that is not what you prefer.
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I guess I’m the “others” addressed in your post, Peanut.
Anyway, loyalty and preference are not synonymous / interchangeable. A person can take a spouse who is quite different from her personal preferences in a man and still stay loyal / faithful to him for the rest of her life. Also, the word “loyalty” implies that one has other options; any woman who feels she has no other option but to stay with a man or a given type of man, is not loyal, she is desperate.
The word loyalty also implies staying put regardless of threat or mistreatment. Dogs will often stick by the side of a human “companion” even if starved out or whipped by him on the regular, and even if the dog might have means of escape. That’s loyalty.
And finally, dating stats might show dating preferences but they can nether show nor prove personal preferences. A woman can date only ABC men her whole life long and still carry a deep and abiding desire for XYZ men. I personally have dated individuals who come nowhere close to fitting my personal preferences in a partner. It’s probably true of most people.
Stats about who BW date are also not evidence of why they date who they date. It would first be necessary to examine specific reasons why so many BW show a dating preference for BM before it can be determined whether or not loyalty is one of them.
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“The word loyalty also implies staying put regardless of threat or mistreatment. Dogs will often stick by the side of a human “companion” even if starved out or whipped by him on the regular, and even if the dog might have means of escape. That’s loyalty.
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Mmmmm…. gotta strongly disagree with what you stated above Pay It Forward. I believe you’re misusing the definition of loyalty (much like many here often disregard the definition or meaning of racism/white supremacy).
Loyalty means or implies:
1. The act of binding yourself (intellectually or emotionally) to a course of action.
2. The quality of being loyal.
3. Feelings of allegiance.
Deliberately remaining with anyone who brings you harm is NOT loyalty. It’s a Mental Health I_S_S_U_E, or some other terribly nefarious thing/sickness.
“Dogs will often stick by the side of a human “companion” even if starved out or whipped by him on the regular, and even if the dog might have means of escape. That’s loyalty.”
No. That’s devotedness…zeal and/or instinctual duty.
Just my .02 cents.
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@ Matari,
You have a point, loyalty is loyalty, and distinguishable from devotion, or instinctual duty.
If we can stay with dogs for a little longer and extend the parallel to humans — sometimes it’s sheer survival that will compel someone to stay, because what if the human is that animal’s only source of food?
I doubt if I am alone in hearing “Why doesn’t she just leave him” when there is mention of someone, whether a woman or a man, in an abusive marriage, for example.
But, isn’t it always more complicated and individual than that?
I’ve seen at least one husband “control” his wife by using their children, and the loss of them, to keep her in line. I have also heard women use this threat if their husband “steps outta line”, too.
I’ve even been in heavy discussions with at least one individual who told me there are a well-known “psychological techniques” to “train” a woman to stay quiet and under! Perhaps those “techniques” work in some situations, with some people, with either sex and within sex-same relationships. I wouldn’t doubt it.
What about economics? What if the abusive partner controls the money and the other partner is dependent on them for practical survival?
What about social and family support networks? If someone is isolated from that, it’s bound to compound the huge, unendurable hardship of being both homeless and penniless.
What about factors which seem plain “irrational”, like fear and guilt?
I don’t mean loyalty- or devotion-related factors that you’ve described, but the real, though “psychological” barriers — such as deep-going memories of better times and, facing the guilt of breaking up a “good marriage”? I’ve seen religious people who will put with all manner of “indignities” because their religious communities takes a dim view of a wife or husband walking out of a marriage, for example. It is something that is regularly kept hushed up, called by the wrong names and paraded in public as something which it isn’t.
What about the sense of guilt and shame for bringing the abuse upon themselves (a falsehood that abusers rely on)?
What about the fear of more and greater violence….? We are well past the mere “threat” of it. For some years now, I’ve heard that 2 women are killed per week in the UK because of this kind of violence.(*)
The extent to which partner abuse destroys lives is quite chilling, so fear of provoking greater violence or even murder may well be factor in someone staying on when it’d be better for them to go. Or run.
http://www.theguardian.com/society/2013/dec/22/domestic-abuse-half-million-victims
It’s not as though this is new or rare. The frequency and wide spread existence of it can be a jolt to the system. Yet, it seems about one fifth of emergency calls in the UK, for instance, are for domestic violence: there’s more of it than say, burglaries.
(* http://www.theguardian.com/society/2013/may/21/death-of-maria-stubbings)
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We’re looking at a complex and private landscape.
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As I read all of the comments on here, I appreciate reading and hearing other people’s point of view. I have finally turned 18 and I will be attending university this fall. I have changed my view on this topic based on my recent experiences and what I have seen.
I don’t think that African American women are obliged to “give” back to the “community” (I digress calling the African American collective a community because they don’t know how to function as an actual community) or “protect” African American men. African American men don’t reciprocate that loyalty back to their women. Especially when they bash and put down African American women to be with non Black women and bringing all of their resources to non Black women instead. Now that isn’t right. I think this whole “loyalty” and “protecting” African American men that African American women are doing is only hurting other Black women, Black children and most of all themselves. This type of mentality sabotages Black women from finding a good, suitable mate even if it means dating and marrying outside of your race.
As a young, Black woman, why should I bear the weight of the “Black Community”(I digress calling the African American collective a community since they don’t and can’t function as one) when Black men have checked out of the “community” and responsibilities that comes with building and maintaining a community?
This is the reason why I left Black Nationalism. I am not a mule or sacrifical lamb used to “save” African American men when they are in trouble with the law or experience racism from the White establishment. I don’t own the African American collective anything. I am a woman who happens to be Black that is interested in getting an education so that I can improve myself in society and find a man who will love and provide for me REGARDLESS of his race.
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@ Pumpkin
I added your update. Thanks.
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If you adore black men and love black men and are so in love with these men then you have to accept things the way they are. You need to accept black men trashing black women and even black men are now paying white men to trash black women online. These are the men you “adore”. So accept it. Because black men are NOT going to change and this is a fact. Also, they do NOT love black women at all and they are in fact killing black women to the point where you are the most murdered and abused group of women in the nation. You’ll need to accept this and accept your lot in life. Being uplifted and protected is for women of OTHER races, not Black Women. That’s the deal. Accept it and move on with …the ” men” you love and adore” LOL
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Out comes the crazies.
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[…] Black women, loyalty and Black men | Abagond […]
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Reblogged this on Steph's Blog and commented:
America hates it when Black men and women declare their love 💘 and loyalty to each other. They lose their collective minds. They can’t fathom the idea 💡of Black love 💘and relationships.
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